# Is Cream Color Preferred?



## MyLady Heidi (Jan 16, 2013)

I have been on this forum for a short time but I notice tons of pics of puppies and adult golden who are not exactly golden but more the cream color. Is that the preferred color for goldens? I guess I equate golden retriever with that typical golden color like my girls have. Don't get me wrong I love the lighter color also but I guess I was surprised how many light colored goldens I see here. Set me straight, I know virtually nothing about all the ins and outs of goldens and even less about the whole showing of dog thing. The most I have seen is the Westminster dog show on tv, thats about it. Obviously my dogs are pets only but probably will qualify for the most photographed dogs in America by the time they are a few years old. I sort of obsess over them. lol


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## Ohiomom9977 (Jul 27, 2012)

I prefer medium to dark golden myself, but they're all beautiful!


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## Winniesmom (Jul 7, 2012)

I got my dog based on reputation of the breeder and the dogs personality. I also did not know there was such a variation in colors and one is preferred over the other. Your 2 dogs are beautiful, and like you I take so many pics and are obsessed by her


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

You ask a convoluted question... In the U.S. the cream color is NOT the prefered color and it is penalized by the standard as it is written here in the States.... In the UK the cream color is an accepted color and seems to be what is in style right now it is not prefered but seems to be the trend as of the last time I went to Crufts... lots a cream dogs and it is accepted in the UK .... but there are darker and medium colored goldens there as well. 

In the states the cream color seems to be getting more popular ... but again in the show ring is not readily accepted... In Canada the cream color is accepted in the show ring with cream colored dogs doing better in the eastern part of canada than the western part. In the breed ring alot is just whats in style... 

As for pet puppies I think that cream has become a fad .... and thus many less than reputable breeders are breeding for that color... but they are breeding for color alone. 

It is important to know that the cream color is usually associated with english style golden retrievers and these dogs have other differences other than color... but also that they are just golden retrievers like any other, with the same health, temperament and structural issues. They are no calmer or healthier than any other golden.... 

There are reputable breeders of English style goldens of which I am one... there are aspects to the english style that I just prefer... it really is a preference and as such we tend to breed more to the UK standard.... it is interesting I had a UK friend ask me why the US standard is so different than all other places ... and why the American standard split off so badly.... I can't answer that... she thinks its very strange. 

I think the reason you see many of us here on this forum with lighter colored dogs is because the people on this board are accepting of our dogs and the differences and some of us have worked very hard to clarify the issues with our lighter english dogs and become part of the community here .... 

I hope this helps 
s


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## CStrong73 (Jun 11, 2012)

Around where I live, the field goldens (hunting dogs) tend to be a darker reddish gold, and the conformation dogs (show dogs) tend to be lighter. But not cream. More of a true golden.

I could be wrong, but I think cream is more popular in Europe. 

But there also seems to be a bit of a marketing gimmick here in the states of people trying to sell "rare English Cream" goldens. Charging more based on color, or claiming that because they are from "European lines" they are less prone to certain genetic disorders and cancers. 

Overall, color is just a personal preference.

If you look up the breed standard for the AKC, it states "Rich, lustrous golden of various shades. Feathering may be lighter than rest of coat. With the exception of graying or whitening of face or body due to age, any white marking, other than a few white hairs on the chest, should be penalized according to its extent. Allowable light shadings are not to be confused with white markings. Predominant body color which is either *extremely pale or extremely dark is undesirable*. Some latitude should be given to the light puppy whose coloring shows promise of deepening with maturity. Any noticeable area of black or other off-color hair is a serious fault."


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

I am colorblind when it comes to Golden Retrievers. All I really care about is that they are healthy, loving with a good temperament and happy. That said, I made sure that our Yogi came from a breeding program I respected because the breeder keeps her dogs in her home, has family members who help socialize the pups and takes care of the health clearances for her dogs she breeds. That's what matters the most to me.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I got the impression the OP meant on GRF.

And the answer is thankfully - no and yes, depending on who you talk to. I think we all love our golden retrievers, quibble about the styles and coloring we prefer, but agree we like the breed and will throw our weight around if anyone disses our favorite breed.  

**** I personally prefer medium gold. And yes, it does have EVERYTHING to do with the goldens I have right now.


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## Tayla's Mom (Apr 20, 2012)

I love all the variations, but for ease of coat I prefer my red girl.


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## Donatella (Jan 21, 2013)

I like the golden coat and cream....I think it's because I have only been around goldens in these colors. We are getting our puppy in March and our only request from the breeder was that we wanted a male with a big ole block head lol....in his pics he looks cream


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## Heathhanly (Jan 10, 2013)

The cream coat is more prevalent in Australia probably because of our close connections to the UK breeding world, also our Goldens are bred to the UK standard. Since joining the forum I have noticed the differences in appearance of American and English dogs but I agree that the personality of the Golden is it's most important trait. I originally come from Canada and was used to the darker gold Golden, and love that colour. I chose my latest puppy because she will be a light gold. You can tell their adult colour by the colour of their ears when they are a puppy. She was the darkest in the litter. Regardless of her colour, she has an amazing, loving personality, and I wouldn't change her for anything.


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

Bella is definitely on the lighter side, but that wasn't my priority. Health, temperament, and reputation of the breeder were. 

As for lighter dogs not doing well in conformation...I'm not sure that's true across the board. Bella's sire isn't much darker, and has done plenty well in the ring. 




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## LilBitBit (Jan 15, 2012)

Here's a beautiful picture of how varied the Golden coat can be:









Dogs can be near that lower end of the spectrum, of course, but every dog in that picture is a Golden. Color preference really varies on area from what I've noticed on these boards, even here in the U.S.; some states get more of the "cream" colors while in others the "redheads" are prevalent. The other thing I've noticed from my own research is that "redheads" tend to be field while "creams" tend to be conformation/ring dogs, but that doesn't mean that a dog on either end of the spectrum can't excel at anything they or their owners set their minds to.

Whatever the color, I think you'll find here at least that a Golden (or even a Golden mix) is still going to get compliments out the wazoo :


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## Davidrob2 (Dec 10, 2012)

Dallas Gold said:


> I am colorblind when it comes to Golden Retrievers.


Amen. Our previous golden was almost auburn in color -- same as my hair color. We joked that we were going grey together as we both aged. Harry is VERY light cream. I hope that doesn't mean anything as far as my future hair color is concerned!


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Nairb said:


> As for lighter dogs not doing well in conformation...I'm not sure that's true across the board. Bella's sire isn't much darker, and has done plenty well in the ring...


I'm pretty sure she was talking about cream like Chance's color. I wouldn't consider Bella cream or her father if he's even darker than she is. Even if Chance was conformationally correct, (which he isn't), I don't believe he would be competitive in the ring here.


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## TobysDad (Apr 7, 2009)

*Best Golden Color*

Let me put this issue to rest. The BEST golden color (and just ask your golden if you don't believe me), is MUD. Case closed.


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## MyLady Heidi (Jan 16, 2013)

Thanks! Like I said I am a novice about golden retrievers, I read a book about them before we got them and saw the variations in color but never really associated the different colors with dogs I have seen in real life. I wouldn't really care if my dogs were pink with purple polka dots I would love them all the same, I think they are all quite beautiful. I was just observing what seemed like an abundance of lighter colored goldens on this forum that I would have thought. But like I said I know nothing about what is good or bad as far as coloring. We got these dogs because the breeder was a friend of my boyfriends mom and our previous dog had just passed away a few months early. I was excited to get puppies, any puppies, they could have been absolutely any dog and I would be equalled thrilled. It is so much fun having puppies, the joy is totally overwhelming, they are pretty much the focus of my life right about now.

I can make my dog sepia, thats almost cream. lol


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## TheZ's (Jun 13, 2011)

LilBitBit said:


> Here's a beautiful picture of how varied the Golden coat can be:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Love this picture. Thanks for posting it again. There does seem an element of what's in fashion, at least for "pet" owners. Around here I seldom see Goldens in shades to the left of center in the picture. When I do they tend to be older, maybe 10 yrs. or more. To the OP, your dogs seem to contradict this comment and are a beautiful color.

I'd note that our Zeke, who was from field lines, born in 1996, appears above and was a darker shade like the dogs to the left in the picture. Zoe pictured below was born in 2008 and her color is somewhere to the right of center. Her mother is from US conformation lines and her father is from UK lines.


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## Capt Jack (Dec 29, 2011)

I settled this question the easy way I got one of each LOL!!BTW I love them both.I will say Jack is easier to keep looking clean than Sweetie


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

kwhit said:


> I'm pretty sure she was talking about cream like Chance's color. I wouldn't consider Bella cream or her father if he's even darker than she is. Even if Chance was conformationally correct, (which he isn't), I don't believe he would be competitive in the ring here.


She's actually a little lighter than she appears in that photo. I don't know exactly what qualifies as creme in the eyes of most people here, but I've had dozens of people ask me if Bella is "English Creme." To say the least, that question annoys me to no end. 

I just think the impression is given (perhaps not intentionally) that they need to be a specific shade of gold or of a narrow weight range to be competitive in the conformation ring. I know little about conformation, but am aware of more than one situation where that isn't the case. 


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

Bella's sire's photo on k9data does not look "cream" to me. He is a light gold, but is similar in color to my Jack. (Photo attached). Jack did very well in the AKC ring out here in CA and finished his CH. He has a group placement from his only weekend shown as a special, so I would not say his color held him back at all. 

I have a friend with a very light boy (really light light light gold/cream color) who is a lovely mover and a very structurally correct dog...I don't think he has suffered from color bias at all. He is major pointed and has 2 singles owner-handled. She is just starting to show him now that he is fully mature and he is consistently placing in large classes. 

As for forum preference, it's a wide variety. In all honesty, I prefer true medium gold. My Kira (the photo in front of the water with me showing her - don't laugh please) is a touch too light for my taste, but she has darkened a bit. I think she will get a bit darker as she matures. Point being, it's fine to have a preference, but color is the least important thing IMO. Structure, health and temperament are all much more important.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

I think a lot of "pet owners" will also call anything that is not on the redder side a creme. People have done that with Brady, and he is considered a Medium Gold.


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

That K9 data picture is not an accurate depiction of his color. He's much lighter than that. I've never understood why Goldens can look so different from one photo to the next. 

Edit: after looking at your photos, I agree that Jack is about the color of Bella's sire. 


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

goldenjackpuppy said:


> I have a friend with a very light boy (really light light light gold/cream color) who is a lovely mover and a very structurally correct dog...I don't think he has suffered from color bias at all.


Do you have a picture of him?


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## CStrong73 (Jun 11, 2012)

cubbysan said:


> I think a lot of "pet owners" will also call anything that is not on the redder side a creme. People have done that with Brady, and he is considered a Medium Gold.


Rocket's never been called a "Creme", but people have referred to him as "blonde" a few times. 

I was actually surprised at how uniform the colors were when we went to the Michigan Winter dog show. I was expecting a wider range of colors.

I see everything from dark red-gold to light gold around town. Not many real creams, though.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

kwhit said:


> Do you have a picture of him?


Yep, just pulled one off facebook. This is actually with a different person showing him that day (not his owner) but shows his color. He looks lighter than this in person actually.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

goldenjackpuppy said:


> Yep, just pulled one off facebook. This is actually with a different person showing him that day (not his owner) but shows his color. He looks lighter than this in person actually.


He is gorgeous! Thank you.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

kwhit said:


> He is gorgeous! Thank you.


His name is Jonah, I call him Joanie. lol He is a very sweet boy and one of Kira and Jack's favorite friends


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

when I think of cream I think of Chances color of of my connie, alex and bing but they are registered as light gold.... 

bing









connie









Alex










Some of the dogs that are being shown as demonstrating lighter color are not dogs that I would consider to be cream but rather a light gold 
and even my Emmett was called a medium gold in his CCA by Barbara Pepper ... I am not sure that I consider him a medium gold maybe closer to medium than light... 










his mother Kaelyn is also a lighter color but would probably be in the medium gold range... she is lighter than medium but probably not light gold 










keep in mind that younger dogs are generally lighter in color and will end up the color of their ears.... 

and remember there are structural differences as well as color in the english style.... 

that having been said we are breeding connie to an english style medium gold dog.... I prefer color... this boy is a good shade or two darker than he appears here, I really want to add color back in to the lines... there is some but as you can see connie is quite light...


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

Thanks for the visual, because I truly did not know what was considered "creme" vs. "light gold."

I changed my photo because I think this one is a more accurate representation of her color. I just took it about 1/2 hour ago. Rarely can I get a side shot this good. I just follow her around hitting the button on my iphone repeatedly, and hope something turns out. Sometimes, I take 200 to one decent one. This time, I got lucky.

She may not be considered "creme," but I've yet to see a lighter one in my neck of the woods.


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## TheZ's (Jun 13, 2011)

Really like that boy's expression. Is he still fairly young?


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

Nairb said:


> Thanks for the visual, because I truly did not know what was considered "creme" vs. "light gold."
> 
> I changed my photo because I think this one is a more accurate representation of her color. I just took it about 1/2 hour ago. Rarely can I get a side shot this good. I just follow her around hitting the button on my iphone repeatedly, and hope something turns out. Sometimes, I take 200 to one decent one. This time, I got lucky.
> 
> She may not be considered "creme," but I've yet to see a lighter one in my neck of the woods.


from that photo I would call him a medium gold.... and he may even be a darker gold once he fills into that ear color... remember most goldens get to be the color of their ears... it may take some longer than others but that is typically how it goes... 

even with your guy at the color he is now I would say medium gold.


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

TheZ's said:


> Really like that boy's expression. Is he still fairly young?


I am not sure which boy you are referring to ... 

In these photos... 

Connie and Bing were about 2.5 
Alex was 1.5 
Emmett was 4


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## Doug (Jul 17, 2010)

I prefer red goldens but I'll be honest for me it came down to disguising the sugar face with a pale golden. My heart breaks when there are changes in their facial colour due to their age. However, I have come to learn that the 'grey' hairs have _nothing_ to do with their health or longevity. I have also learned that there are no true snow white goldens.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

To the OP's question, color preference changes over time in both the general public and in the ring. 60 years ago the darker dogs were preferred. Over the years there has been a trend towards lighter and lighter dogs. Fortunately the conformation folks have finally put their proverbial foot down and said enough, and the trend is "starting" to swing back the other way. The brakes still haven't come on fully yet with the general public so the "near white" golden is still being marketed heavily to an undereducated buyer who is being taken to the cleaners. 

I prefer darker colored dogs, they don't show the dirt. :curtain:


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## Wimbles (Mar 25, 2010)

Shalva, all you pups are gorgeous but....Bing really does melt my heart

Sorry, had to edit, Hamish decided to lick the keyboard:doh:


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

Swampcollie said:


> I prefer darker colored dogs, they don't show the dirt. :curtain:


its kinda funny you say this... its amazing how much my dogs change color when they get a bath... I am always like wow... you really are lighter than I thought


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## Wimbles (Mar 25, 2010)

Over here in the UK, my boys have definitely gone a deeper golden over the winter months.


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## TheZ's (Jun 13, 2011)

Shalva, all your dogs look great. I think I was reading too fast and a little confused. The last picture was the one I was referring to. That's Connie? . . . "her" expression is what I should have said?


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

I guess Rose could fall in the category of "Cream", "White" etc. I did get her for the color and the looks and temperament of her mom but I like the extremes, dark red golden and very light. The reason I went with the light golden (even though DH laughs at me saying that we will have to spray paint her or camouflage her when hunting) is because we recently lost a golden and a black border collie/golden mix. I wanted something different because my heart has been with Troopie and Jack for so long I did not want to think of Rose as Jack or as Trooper. I did not think it would have been fair to her. And now I see both of them in her - I see Jack's stubbornness Jack and Trooper's golden heart. When Rose will be 2 years we will be looking for an American Golden. 

To the OP - I think your Goldens are absolutely gorgeous, and no matter the color they all have a golden heart!


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

Doug said:


> I prefer red goldens but I'll be honest for me it came down to disguising the sugar face with a pale golden. My heart breaks when there are changes in their facial colour due to their age. However, I have come to learn that the 'grey' hairs have _nothing_ to do with their health or longevity. I have also learned that there are no true snow white goldens.


My first golden Cody was a "blonde" and up until he died at almost 11 didn't show a sugarface. If you looked close enough his face might had been just a tiny tiny tiny shade lighter. That's it. And I have seen some darker dogs turn sugar face at age 5. 

Your pups are beautiful!


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

TheZ's said:


> Shalva, all your dogs look great. I think I was reading too fast and a little confused. The last picture was the one I was referring to. That's Connie? . . . "her" expression is what I should have said?


Oh that very last dog is Gusty... he is connies "intended" and he is 4 I believe ...


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

I call Toby 'blondie' as a term of endearment, lol, but he is actually registered as light golden. But seeing some of the pics here, I guess he is light to medium gold maybe. 
He is definitely getting whiter in the face, but he will be 10 in March. 
He is the lightest golden I have had so far, his littermates were a lot darker.


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## KatieBlue'sMidnightSky (Feb 22, 2011)

I've not had the time to read through all the posts, but I've attended a fair amount of shows, and I've seen quite a variety of dogs winning, but it seems you don't see that many of the darker dogs winning....a few do though. Here is an example of one of the darker females that has done very well in the breed ring (and out I might add!)

Pedigree: BIS BISS GCH CH Shadowland's Paws For Applause At Tristar CD RA WC VC SDHF CGC TDI

My personal favorite is the medium honey gold with light blonde furnishings!! Love the combo, versus a more "solid" dog.


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## TheZ's (Jun 13, 2011)

"Pedigree: BIS BISS GCH CH Shadowland's Paws For Applause At Tristar CD RA WC VC SDHF CGC TDI"

Sydney looks like what I think of as the older, more traditional Golden. To me, she's really beautiful.


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## Kally76 (Jun 14, 2010)

I just love them all. Although, I've never actually seen a creme colored golden in real life...only in pictures. The Redheads, and medium golden are the norm here.


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## ScottyUSN (Jul 18, 2011)

Oklahoma is a red clay state so Bogey's color is relative to the time between baths.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

Sydney was line bred on Kirby who brought a lot of color back into show lines and was a hugely successful show dog and sire.


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## Dwyllis (Nov 22, 2012)

Interesting discussion. Here in New Zealand the pale cream is definitely the preferred colour, & all registered breeders are breeding their litters for these lighter tones. Loki had a mother who would be similar to Bella's colouring, which I think of as a lovely medium gold. His father was cream with 'peachy' tone on the ears. All five in the litter were in varying shades of cream ....one was virtually white, which is not allowed in the breed standard, but he was the first baby to have a deposit paid on him. My boy Loki was the next most pale one, but they were all pale. Loki has the same peachy tone on his ears, that his father has. Photo below was taken a few days ago ....he has just turned six months. I actually love the rich reds, but breeders here are just not breeding for them. Golden toned babies can be found for sale by unregistered breeders, using pets to breed from .....I guess that is what are called BYB in America? Cream is an accepted colour in our breed standard, same as Australia & UK. They are all beautiful, no matter what their colour.


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## Vinnie's Mom (Jun 9, 2012)

I really love Vinnie's color but I also think the creams are beautiful. Maybe his sister will be a lighter one. It won't be for at least another year though.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Shalva said:


> ....and he may even be a darker gold once he fills into that ear color...


Chance has got a little darker as he got older. But not on his body, he's darker on his ears and a little on his chest. His body has stayed really light. 

The first picture is the day we got him, (1 yr. old), , the second and third pictures are just recently and show how his body is still very light, but his ears are a lot darker and the last picture is when he was about 2, (you can see just the _very_ tip of his ear getting darker):


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## Seagodess (Dec 6, 2012)

I personally like the lighter color better than the darker reds. When I think golden retriever I think of not the really light colored ones, but much lighter than yours (OP's) or the dark reddish ones.


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## annef (Feb 23, 2008)

Thought you may like to see the contrast in colour in 2 UK bred goldens. The dark gold one is Tikka, all working bred and the puppy Lara aged 7 weeks (the red mark on her side is nail varnish used to mark the litter by the breeder) Annef


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

I love that picture! :smooch: It's what I imagine Chance looked like as a puppy.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Anne - at a quick glance I did a double-take thinking you stole a picture of my Sammy and Danny.....  










One thing I do have to say.... while I don't really appreciate the lack of gold luster with a lot of these dogs bred to the English style, I do like the bigger heads. I think that is possibly the biggest change in the conformation ring that I've seen over the past 15 years. I always assumed that came about when people introduced English dogs into their lines - for that improvement? 

Please keep in mind I was a bit younger (not paying COMPLETE attention to the boring details) back then, but I was under the impression at the same that our instructor who preferred English lines and English crossed lines over American lines did so to get away from some of the health issues in the American lines (cancer, etc) and she preferred the heads. Her lines still developed cancer - even those kinds of cancer that affects young dogs (lymphoma), and I know that was disheartening to her because she always prided her breeding for having very long lived dogs (15+ years). The dogs she bred and her dogs were still very definitely light gold. 

Even that color preference isn't necessarily new.... Danny's breeder used lines that were light. This was back in the early 90's when a lot of people were trying to get their dogs as light as possible. My sister was on a waiting list for a puppy from an extremely light (she looked white except for faint champagne type coloring on her ears and "jacket") female. That litter only had females though so my sister was given a choice between two other litters which had a lot of boys. Danny was one of 11 puppies - and they were all practically white at the time. Despite there being 11 puppies in that litter, I believe that all but 2 boys were sold before the puppies were 2 weeks old. Danny was the darkest puppy of the litter. His fairer haired bros sold faster.  

^ The ironic thing, is that the uber light female was my Jacks' great-aunt. And she died of a form of pancreatic cancer. It's something I try not to think about too much. 

It was interesting going from that back in the 90's to what I noticed between 2005 and 2007 when I was interviewing breeders. Many of the show type breeders were using a description "maple sugar gold" to describe the medium to dark gold that they were breeding for. This as opposed to the "light champagne gold" that we heard about back before Danny....


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## annef (Feb 23, 2008)

The heads on the working goldens are not so good here as you can see by Tikka. Annef


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## Davidrob2 (Dec 10, 2012)

Our breeder has two females who are fully cleared -- one who represents the American standard, the other the British standard. She was helpful in explaining the physical differences of each. It was interesting seeing them side by side. We ended up with a puppy from the "British" mom just because that was the one she was breeding at the time. Having had a darker golden the first time around, the only difference I am noticing is that I get stopped a lot more on our walks by people who say "What a cute puppy. I love yellow labs." :doh: BTW, it's usually never a golden owner. From them I get, "I've heard of cream colored goldens, but never actually seen one."


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

annef said:


> The heads on the working goldens are not so good here as you can see by Tikka. Annef


Hard to tell from the picture - but I assume she didn't have as prominant an occiput as Sammy...  

Her head reminds me a lot more of an adorable female that I came close to adopting, except she would have had to remain intact for another year which I couldn't have in my home. That female is a Rush Hill's girlie... I didn't think her head was that bad, but I know the breeder only bred her to dogs that had good heads and generally "threw" good heads.

@DavidRob - does Harry have any feathering yet? Bertie never gets the "lab" comments because he already is sprouting (too much >.< ) feathering all over. Jacks, Danny, and Sammy were all lab puppies. Sammy even was keyed in at our vet as a golden-mix even after he outgrew the labby stage.


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## Davidrob2 (Dec 10, 2012)

Harry's just beginning to get some feathering. His back is getting very wavy though so hopefully the lab comments will end soon.


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## leesooim (Nov 1, 2012)

I personally prefer a medium gold colored coat, but Sasha as you can see is exceptionally light. Her mother is even slightly lighter, I think, as you can see here:









Even though my signature picture is from her gotcha day, Sasha isn't any darker. Even our breeder was surprised, saying she never thought she would be that light (the sire is the typical medium-dark golden color). When we had a litter get-together, Sasha was easily the lightest one there! I should add that the breeder didn't specifically breed for the cream color... Splash (the mother) just turned out that way, as her own mother was also quite light (although not as light as Splash).

Even if she's not my "ideal" golden color, I still love my little sometimes-like-Cujo Golden girl to bits!


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

Megora said:


> I always assumed that came about when people introduced English dogs into their lines - for that improvement?


not really ... generally my experience has been that when people are introducing english lines it is to improve fronts, upper arm and shoulder layback. Unfortunately many American lines have absolutely horrendous fronts and many of us have talked about how breeders don't even know what a really great front looks like anymore. I have seen dogs on this forum that people rave about and how they have great fronts and I am like where??? what front??? prow is not front! they are also terribly lacking in upper arm. This is a conversation that a well known judge and i have had... So many who add in English lines are desperately trying to improve that front assembly... heads are secondary because in the American breed ring the English dogs can have to much head... this having been said some of the English dogs can be very crouchy in the rear nd very long in the hock... which they can have trouble controlling... so adding American lines IF you don't lose the fronts can help the rears... its a balance.

as for me ... I can appreciate ANY well built... structurally sound golden .... color is honestly the least of my worries... that having been said... the boy I am breeding to connie is a lovely medium gold boy... so we will likely be adding color bck in


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Shalva - was that true back in the 90's though? I thought it was just recent years with goldens getting more compact that there have been increasing issues with the angulation or whatnot. <- I'm not a conformation person and so a lot of those words might as well be greek.  

I guess I thought the push for bigger heads came first and then more compact bigger boned goldens. First I saw it over with labs and then it leaked over to the golden ring.


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

Davidrob2 said:


> ...... I get stopped a lot more on our walks by people who say "What a cute puppy. I love yellow labs." :doh: BTW, it's usually never a golden owner. From them I get, "I've heard of cream colored goldens, but never actually seen one."


People have said the exact same things to me about Bella. Many have asked if she's a Lab-Golden mix. Actually, I haven't heard the Lab mix question since her tail feathers bloomed. There just aren't many lighter Goldens around here.


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

Megora said:


> Shalva - was that true back in the 90's though? I thought it was just recent years with goldens getting more compact that there have been increasing issues with the angulation or whatnot. <- I'm not a conformation person and so a lot of those words might as well be greek.
> 
> I guess I thought the push for bigger heads came first and then more compact bigger boned goldens. First I saw it over with labs and then it leaked over to the golden ring.


back in the 90's you were just beginning to see the importation of dogs specifically from the UK not as much from other countries ie. eastern europe... but from the UK, Ireland, etc. substance was a big part of that ... ie. head size, bone, and certainly angulation .... that is why people imported... but they pretty much stuck to their type. You didn't see as many blends happening... English breeders imported their dogs and stuck to the type as a whole... American breeders seemed to stick to that type. Marge at Trowsnest was one of the few who was doing some nice blends of english and american type and her dogs have a pretty distinct type, you can tell her dogs. It seems that recently you have more people doing the blends to try and improve front assembly so they will add in an English dog .... and then the next generation they seem to go right back to the American dogs and that front that they may have improved goes right back... but right now front angulation is one of the biggest issues in american dogs.. even dogs that I see who appear to have a "good" front compared to other American type dogs don't have a good front compared to the english dogs... and front assembly along with bone are really really hard to get back once they are lost. 

I don't know if this makes sense....


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Thanks Shalva... without really having pictures of "good front" and "bad front" right in front of me... that part of it isn't too clear to me. But that's not your explanation. That's me. 

I do find the history part interesting though, and I have to ask - this based on what I saw then with imported goldens and those breeders who were using english dogs in their lines (Meadowpond and Malagold being two big breeders that did that)....

And maybe Anne can answer this... has the breed changed that drastically over there in the past 15 years? I rememember people trying to get the light golden color, but I don't remember them actually looking WHITE, as some of these appear. 

I know that the camera flash always illuminates the white on a dog. That's why Jacks looks whiter when I use the flash on my camera vs those pics I take outside where flash isn't necessary...

But I think Selli-Belle posted a thread with a link to a lot of kennel club champions of recent years - and you had a lot of very light dogs pictured there. And they were outside, so you couldn't blame the flash....


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## TheZ's (Jun 13, 2011)

Reading the comments above from Megora and Shalva, I'm also wondering about the popularity of big blocky heads. Is there seem reason that they are superior or is it just that people like the look?


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## USAFWife74 (Jan 13, 2013)

The goldens I see here in Europe are all pale cream, like my Ellie. My friend got hers in Belgium with similar coloring. The only reddish goldens I see are ones from America. 


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## Tioy (Sep 12, 2012)

goldenjackpuppy said:


> Yep, just pulled one off facebook. This is actually with a different person showing him that day (not his owner) but shows his color. He looks lighter than this in person actually.


Oh, he looks wonderful!! Sweetness!
In Sweden, I would say it is 50-50. Some prefare the field type and others the lighter and blockier type.
Having my first dog and first golden, we made our choice after activity level.
I just love goldens, no matter color. They are so active, playful and willing to work! I am at the moment in two different obedience courses with Zingo, one with other breeds and the other with only goldens. It became so clear to me when I started the golden-course that Zingo is not overly energetic, he is a golden! 



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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I think that definitely is preference. 

Bertie is going to have a fairly average head, I think. I'm sure it will be a nice head and he already has a very sweet expression (don't look at his belligerant look in my sig), but it definitely does not have the same size and definition that Jacks had at the same age. That probably my only quibble about him.


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

I think there are trends and fads that happen in the breed ring... people see what is winning and breed to that... there is a very successful show dog here that honestly I hated his head... he did alot of winning and I noticed head shapes changing... more wedge shaped, less stop, recessed eyes... awful head shapes... over the past few years the head shapes have been going back to a more square head, better stop... better eyes etc.... the fads and trends change. I would imagine in the UK is very similar... with various style issues as well as color... and its not just in goldens it is in every breed... you can see differences and changes over time 

As far as fronts... I would never post a picture of a dog that has what i would view as a poor front... if you do some research on front assembly you will find how to look at upper arm, shoulder layback and front angulation... but I would not post a picture of a bad front...


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

How about a picture of a good front?


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

Bella @ 3.5 months. The peak of "is she a lab?" On this same camping trip some guy with a yellow lab was telling his young son, "that's one of those white labs." A few minutes later, he asked me "what is she a mix with?" LOL.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> more wedge shaped, less stop, recessed eyes... awful head shapes... over the past few years the head shapes have been going back to a more square head, better stop... better eyes etc....


The "wedge shape" description always confuses me.... what exactly do people mean when they say "wedge"? I always thought it was a head shaped similar to a V with a narrow muzzle and broad head? And I've read this applied to fieldy type dogs? Who can't be said to have broad heads all the time.... 

Bertie's head is not as broad as Jacks head and he doesn't have as much stop. I'll take it (and his head is still very pretty), but yep. I think it very definitely comes down to a preference - and very likely because I love Jacks' head so much. 



> As far as fronts... I would never post a picture of a dog that has what i would view as a poor front...


Oh - I wasn't asking!  I was just saying that I've had people show the diagrams and use the dots with pictures and so forth - and I'm dense as far as picking out what other people are seeing when they dislike fronts or what they want to see in comparision. The very straight fronts and undeveloped/lacking fronts are very easy to spot, but that isn't what people seem to be looking at. 

The breeder who was pushing me to do a CCA with Jacks (the dang things are always on Sundays though so I can't) - when I asked her what people are looking at when they talk about shoulders - she said that in most cases she herself doesn't always know unless she gets her hands on the dogs.


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

I hope this is readable.... below this you will see my Shalva (not a golden) I think she has an adequate/good front... she is well balanced... so the front angulation equals the rear angulation... remember a front should be balanced to the rear so for good movement... 










while you can see she has hair up there... you can also see the angle that goes from her front leg and angles well towards the front... many times poor fronts are hidden by lots of chest hair.... oh yeah don't look at her bad grooming lol


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## Bell (Jan 23, 2010)

A very interesting discussion!You'd probably say about my boy he's quite light.








But he's not by far the lightest of goldens here. He was almost white as a puppy,now..i don't know-light/medium gold.For eurapean golden.  I think he's between number two and three on the light side. 

Here's a pic of the ''golden sprectrum"








I'm sure it's been posted,but it's on topic.Anyway,i think all shades of gold are awesome! Do you agree?


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## Jesse'sGirl7407 (Jan 17, 2013)

I am in LOVE with the dark goldens! I never realized just how pretty their coat was until I got one of my own. He's always been on the skinny side and for a while people kept asking me if he was a setter! He's also very easy to keep clean and really doesn't shed all that much.


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

"....doesn't shed all that much."

How old is he? The reason I ask, is because Bella didn't shed much either until about 3 weeks ago. She'll be 9 months in 9 days.


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## Jesse'sGirl7407 (Jan 17, 2013)

Mine is 8 months old. The most he has shed yet is about a handful of hair after a bath. Other than that I barely notice it.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Davidrob2 said:


> "What a cute puppy. I love yellow labs." :doh: BTW, it's usually never a golden owner. From them I get, "I've heard of cream colored goldens, but never actually seen one."


I'm usually asked if Chance is a Pyr. Most ask what type of mix he is. From other Golden owners, I usually, (not all the time but usually), get not so nice comments or they ignore him.  Some have been outright rude. I've got a couple of nice comments, but those have been from others with light dogs. I feel that there is definitely a prejudice...in my area, anyway. 

I'm used to people commenting on my dogs when walking them...when you have a giant breed, you can't go 2 feet without someone stopping you to talk about your dog, (I'm sure Shalva can attest to that ). But the mean comments were new to me. After all this time with Chance, I just ignore them now, but at first, it was difficult. After all, he's the best dog in the world, can't they see that?


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## annef (Feb 23, 2008)

I think the biggest problem we have in the UK is long bodies and short legs. There are quite a few dogs with excessive hind angulation but personally I feel that toplines and quarters are really good, most have sufficient bone and heads vary according to the lines they come from. Shoulders and upper arms are improving I would say and many are very good. Colour of the dogs in the ring is a lovely range from pale cream to really dark gold. The head of Tikka the adult in the picture lacks depth of foreface and stop and I would prefer more chiselling in the head and a darker eye and standing she is a disaster- however she makes up for it in her working ability which is what she was bred for. Annef


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

That is not just a problem with UK lines, Anne. There are a significant number of "freight trains" in North American lines as well. Some people who are used to that look find my Butch to have too much leg.

I would agree with Shalva that there are a lot of people who have so far from good fronts in their kennels, that they find even a mediocre one to be impressive. Some of the ads for big winning show dogs in the GR News just make me cringe when I see the structure. I know a number of "blenders" who use English lines for the improvement and maintenance of fronts, a few who also like what they bring in head type as some American lines are getting rather harsh in expression, and now have noticed quite a few delving into them because the lines they were working with have become such a problem with PU they had to go to something not associated with PU at all.

Adding shots of my boys marked to show their fronts. On top, Butch has an okay front. I would like a little more upper arm on him. Winter's below is better and it shows in his movement.

Shalva's dogs and some of mine are related, as well. The boy she is breeding to is my Breeze's brother from a repeat (MH siblings!). Their sire, and even moreso their grandsire Rayleas Caluimn had a fair bit of colour and it does seem to come through. Breeze's kids that I have here are both darker than she is, and her granddaughter yet darker again, so when combined with pedigrees that have colour, even the light dogs cab have more mid-gold show through.


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

kwhit said:


> I'm used to people commenting on my dogs when walking them...when you have a giant breed, you can't go 2 feet without someone stopping you to talk about your dog, (I'm sure Shalva can attest to that ). But the mean comments were new to me. After all this time with Chance, I just ignore them now, but at first, it was difficult. After all, he's the best dog in the world, can't they see that?


OH my gosh I can so relate... if I don't have time to talk I leave natalie home... a trip with her anywhere can take hours... everyone wants to see her, take her picture... etc etc 

as for the rude comments I can relate to that also ... when we are walking around the street many people love my dogs... they are amazed by the color and honestly they are cute... I think they are intrigued by the differences... ... golden retriever people either ignore them... or sneer at them or assume they come from scumbag breeders and make rude remarks... my puppy people have had people make rude remarks to them at training classes. I watched golden retriever people at a show sneer at my dogs when they were puppies... I mean honestly who sneers at a puppy... 

so yeah I can relate to that
s


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

I agree with the others when it comes to cream being accepted by the UK standard but not American. They are all Goldens. I actually prefer blond, which is in between cream and the color I do have. I got Mercy, a medium gold based on health and temperament. It became a higher priority over looks. I am considering a blond boy from a breeder that has well bred dogs that happen to be blond, but not for several years yet. I already told the breeder I have been considering at a dog show that I was interested in a future pup though.


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

TobysDad said:


> Let me put this issue to rest. The BEST golden color (and just ask your golden if you don't believe me), is MUD. Case closed.


Yikes! Mercy got into a mud puddle at the dog park two Saturdays ago. She then got wet in the baby pool there. She then went back to the mudhole, then back to the pool, then back to the mudhole.:doh: Since my husband was waiting in the parking lot with the car running with my 3 year old son in the carseat, and since my 30 minute time limit was up, I had to take Mercy to the car with muddy paws!:yuck:


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

Shalva said:


> when I think of cream I think of Chances color of of my connie, alex and bing but they are registered as light gold....
> 
> 
> 
> Alex


Alex is darling!


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

KatieBlue'sMidnightSky said:


> My personal favorite is the medium honey gold with light blonde furnishings!! Love the combo, versus a more "solid" dog.


I believe my Mercy might fit that description. Her fur is darker red towards her butt, but towards her front, with the exception of the top of her head, her body is lighter more like medium. I sometimes tell her she is marble colored. She has a beautiful marble tail as seen from her backside, and big boned medium and blond mixed legs and a big light chest, not to mention a big head that is mixed medium and dark gold but lighter under her eyes and cheeks. I will have to take a picture of her tail from behind. What I mean by marble is two shades coming together.


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

Davidrob2 said:


> Our breeder has two females who are fully cleared -- one who represents the American standard, the other the British standard. She was helpful in explaining the physical differences of each. It was interesting seeing them side by side. We ended up with a puppy from the "British" mom just because that was the one she was breeding at the time. Having had a darker golden the first time around, the only difference I am noticing is that I get stopped a lot more on our walks by people who say "What a cute puppy. I love yellow labs." :doh: BTW, it's usually never a golden owner. From them I get, "I've heard of cream colored goldens, but never actually seen one."


Just the other day as we were heading into Petsmart, a family oohed and aahed at my dog, and the father said, " I like your Lab." Mercy has long silky hair.


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## Mayve (Aug 21, 2012)

MercyMom said:


> Just the other day as we were heading into Petsmart, a family oohed and aahed at my dog, and the father said, " I like your Lab." Mercy has long silky hair.



Someone asked me if Sage was a goldendoodle...:doh::doh::doh::doh::doh:


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

Mayve said:


> Someone asked me if Sage was a goldendoodle...:doh::doh::doh::doh::doh:


Oh my!:no:


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

I tolerate Golden Doodles and welcome their owners into my circle, but I am not crazy about them.


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

MercyMom said:


> Just the other day as we were heading into Petsmart, a family oohed and aahed at my dog, and the father said, " I like your Lab." Mercy has long silky hair.


We always got the white lab with our first golden Cody. But they were not golden owners. Every golden owner I have come across know goldens regardless of color. And these golden owners are ALWAYS the ones that made the nicest comments. Cody got alot of cars to honk while we were on our walks.


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## Davidrob2 (Dec 10, 2012)

Wyatt's mommy said:


> Every golden owner I have come across know goldens regardless of color. And these golden owners are ALWAYS the ones that made the nicest comments. Cody got alot of cars to honk while we were on our walks.


The comments I get from Golden owners about Harry's cream color all have been complimentary -- at least I'm taking them that way. Maybe it's just the genteel South and as we pass they say "Bless his heart, a Golden should be gold." However, Harry definitely draws a crowd whenever we take him anywhere. He's just happy for all the attention.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

The rude comments drive me batty. I get the "what is he?" All the time since Bear is such an odd mix. I've had people tell me to my face that there is no way he's part golden retriever. Sometimes its hard not to be rude back. Somedays I just want to say "then there must not be a way for you be have s brain." And walk away. Grrrrrrrrrrrr. >.<

A lot of people ask if he is a flat coated retriever and overall we get a lot of wonderful compliments because he is such an unusual mix. Regardless, i wouldn't trade him for anything. 


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

oh I don't get rude comments from people who just see my dogs on the street ... it is typically at training class and shows and it is from competition folks... not from the average person...


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

I just ignore the comments, and move on. There was another Golden in our beginner obedience class. The lady at first didn't believe me when I said Bella was a purebred Golden. Her dog was orange. That's fine. I move on.


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Nairb said:


> I just ignore the comments, and move on. There was another Golden in our beginner obedience class. The lady at first didn't believe me when I said Bella was a purebred Golden. Her dog was orange. That's fine. I move on.


Someone asked me if Molly was going to turn orange like his golden when she gets older. Uhh.. No. I love my blondie. 


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

Nairb said:


> I just ignore the comments, and move on. There was another Golden in our beginner obedience class. The lady at first didn't believe me when I said Bella was a purebred Golden. Her dog was orange. That's fine. I move on.


oh yeah its not a big deal... but yeah it happens... but honestly I dont care ... I remember when we were showing Kaelyn... and she had taken first in her class the first couple days and then had taken first in the class on this particular day and and a woman came out of the ring and she was complaining loudly to her friend standing right next to me about couldn't they see how terrible that dog was and she was so crouchy and was just terrible and they weren't even looking at her dog and that (kaelyn) was just horrible... and she went on and on .... and Kaelyn went winners bitch that day, the handler came out of the ring and handed her to me... and she just looked at me with shock cause she knew I had heard everything she said... and I just looked back at her and said "well you don't have to worry about her anymore cause she is finished and walked away..." oh well what can ya do...


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

Vhuynh2 said:


> Someone asked me if Molly was going to turn orange like his golden when she gets older. Uhh.. No. I love my blondie.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


And to be clear, I have nothing against orange dogs, in case someone here has one. It's just not my color preference. Having said that, I would never approach someone and badger them about the color of their dog, and question whether it was purebred or not. Judging by her reaction in subsequent weeks, I think she regretted her comments. 


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Shalva said:


> oh I don't get rude comments from people who just see my dogs on the street ...


Oh, I do...if they have a Golden with them. Like I had mentioned previously, not always, but a lot of the time. I think what the issue is, is that they _assume_ I'm naive, stupid or dumb and probably shelled out thousands of $$$$$ for a "rare English Cream", (or Creme, whichever). Maybe I should have a shirt that says, "I'm not stupid! He was FREE!!!!" IDK...I guess it still does bother me, even though I try to convince myself it doesn't.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

It's funny people have had such experiences with light dogs, when I have Jack and/or Smooch out and about people like to tell me about their rare English cream/creme golden at home...making it sound like their super rare breed of dog is somehow superior to my run of the mill golden. I also had a friend who (I found out through facebook) purchased a very light golden from a super sketchy breeder here in california. He was bragging about his "English Cream Retriever" all day long on facebook and I finally responded that we "love our goldens, they are such a great breed" and he corrected me that his dog was not a golden retriever but an English cream retriever - a different breed. I tried to nicely correct him but he wasn't hearing any of it. I'm pretty sure the braggarts (like my friend) are the reason you normal folks may get the negative comments...unfortunately. 

The general public NEVER knows Kira is a golden....they get so confused when they look at her because she is on the smaller side and also quite light. They expect a golden to look more like Jack or Smooch. But I've never had anyone make any negative comments about Kira's color - even in the show world.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

goldenjackpuppy said:


> I'm pretty sure the braggarts (like my friend) are the reason you normal folks may get the negative comments...unfortunately.


Good point...


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## Mayve (Aug 21, 2012)

MercyMom said:


> I tolerate Golden Doodles and welcome their owners into my circle, but I am not crazy about them.



I am not a fan of doodles, not the dogs themselves, just the whole idea.

I did have someone at class last night ask me if she was a retriever or lab. I can handle that since she's a puppy and I think most people don't know the difference when they are young. I was a bit taken back though at the doodle question. :uhoh:


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## leesooim (Nov 1, 2012)

Mayve said:


> Someone asked me if Sage was a goldendoodle...:doh::doh::doh::doh::doh:


Yikes! I don't like goldendoodles, but that's also because I don't like poodles!

I had to chuckle at your comment though, because really there are just tons of people out there that don't know squat about dog breeds, an example being that even if the Golden has a coat that is DISTINCTIVELY different from a Labrador Retriever, the dogs all still look the same to them lol. I can't fault people for their ignorance though. I can only fault them when they couple said ignorance with rudeness.


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

I prefer red head golden myself. My previous one was Irish setter coloring. Buddy is light in comparison to me but I love him anyway 

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...ures/120137-goldstock-mikatallulah-buddy.html

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/chit-chat/124825-happy-holidays-mikatallulah-furbutts.html


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## Heathhanly (Jan 10, 2013)

I posted earlier regarding the colour of my Australian Golden, here they are tending very much to cream but I having been noticing a lot of comments about head shape. Here is a head shot of Meeka. She gets lots of compliments on her conformation and has a great head shape by Australian standards.









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## hored (Sep 8, 2012)

Can we just stop with this racist thread?


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

This is an old thread, and we have covered this ground already. People might be biased or prejucided about coat color, but "racist" is a term that refers to humans exclusively. The issue is such a serious one, that we will try to be thoughtful about word choice and not equate dog issues with human issues in this case. Words are powerful.


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## olliversmom (Mar 13, 2013)

My dearly departed Homer was what I call "Copper" color. Reddish Gold. He comes from the Gold Rush line of Goldens, many of whom are that copper color, including the famous Charlie. 
My neighbors all have dogs from Gold Rush/Cummings line. They are all reddish and large and mellow and beautiful. 

Olliver comes from Camelot and Okeechobee on moms side (she's medium dark red and Dad also brings in the Buckeye (He's lighter Gold.) 
Olliver's lighter gold now but will probably darken a bit to a medium light gold.
Personality wise:, his mom has all available titles in all obedience and field/agility trials. She is the epitome of a working Golden. Dad on the other hand is major pointed in the conformation ring and very mellow.
So, Ollie has a little of both worlds: nice blending of two colors, and two different personalities and dad brings in the big head and chest. 
But in the end, as long as they have that Golden heart, that's all that matters to me


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## Guybrush (Apr 17, 2012)

I have had many complements on Guybrush for his head shape and colouring. There is a lack of purebred puppies here in Perth so we had no choice in colour most are blonde or cream. Pet store pups here are generally darker than conformation.


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## Dexter12 (Feb 10, 2012)

Dex is more of a dark blonde golden which I personally think is gorgeous, I love it.









Archer is what we call a white caramel, he has a very slight golden tinge since he's mixed with a huskey. He came from an interesting litter, some of his siblings had his colouring and the others were black! 








I'm adding this one because he was so FLUFFFYYYYYYYYY :


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## Ripley16 (Jan 26, 2012)

I tend to lean towards more of the medium to light gold in colour. Ripley is a light gold with cream in her coat as well. If it was all about looks, I would have maybe gone with a more medium "air bud like" golden colour, but she had the best personality, and is equally as beautiful in my mind. It's honestly all up to preference


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## PrincessTanya (Jul 15, 2013)

I read the column from the beginning all throughout the end of each pages and hooofff.. lots of feedback about color preferences. Based on the title of the thread, is cream color prefer? I think lots of research made by experts were already posted on this thread. I agree that color are 'least' factor on this breed. However, every Goldie lover, any color will do but there's always an apple of the eye. ^_^


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## vicki1985 (Mar 26, 2013)

Just read this topic and as I live in Ireland most retrievers I see are medium to cream coloured. When we went to get ours his 2 brothers were darker and my partner wanted the cream one I was just happy to have a new fur baby. I do get lots of nice comments on his coat so maybe it's a European thing. My ideal dog after getting to know the golden would be an Irish red setter cross with a golden as I had a setter 17years who was wonderful and I love how friendly my golden is. All I need now is a mansion and lots of land to have all these dogs I want (not to mention all the othe pets I'd like)









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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

vicki1985 said:


> My ideal dog after getting to know the golden would be an Irish red setter cross with a golden as I had a setter 17years who was wonderful and I love how friendly my golden is.


But as you know - the risk of buying a mixed breed is there is no guarantee that you will get everything you want. 

The nice thing with buying purebred dogs is - there certainly is a sort of guarantee. Providing you purchase your puppy from a good breeder....


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## vicki1985 (Mar 26, 2013)

I understand that but I think out of all the animals I have had there is never a guarantee of anything only if your lucky and put lots of time and effort in they may give you bundles more back even if they haven't had the greatest start or haven't had the best breeding or papers to match. And that's not to say there may have a few bumps on the way


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I think there are people who have been "lucky" with the backyard bred dogs they purchased.... 

My family was not lucky. Our first golden died when he was six because of a defect we realized that he must have lived with all his life. Reading up on that kidney defect, it helped us understand many of the symptoms he exhibited all his life. 

This golden came from a backyard breeder and his father was also his grandfather. That litter was full of misfortune and at least two of the other dog owners that we reached out to after Charmy died... their dogs also died early to the same defect.

The dog who sired the litter also died early. Probably the same thing. 

And my feeling - btw.... if that dog was exhibiting the same symptoms our dog was, then he absolutely should not have been bred multiple times - and to his own progeny even. That act was a cruelty that I do not think the people should ever be forgiven. And the saddest thing is you have a lot of people out there breeding their dogs all the time regardless of any inheritable health problems that these dogs have. 

And the topper I can add, btw - that first golden we had? We had a few offers from people who saw him to breed him to their dogs. This dog was not breed standard, had cataracts, had temperament issues... people who don't know what they're looking at do not see any of these things. And these people certainly didn't. We were absolutely against breeding family dogs back then (still are), so of course that didn't happen. But imagine if we had bred him. >.<

That whole experience turned us off ever buying from just anyone who has a litter to sell. 

And yes, we learned how to read pedigrees, we got involved with dog sports and kept company with actual breeders who never breed unless they wanted a puppy themselves. These things definitely have had their effect on how we look at golden retrievers and/or approach the whole "puppy search". I think honestly too, there is always more to learn - always mistakes you learn from.


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