# Changing to Raw Diet or new food?



## krist124 (Apr 19, 2019)

I am new to these forums so hello! I am considering switching my dog over to a raw diet. I am not sure whether it is a good idea or a bad idea and my vet does not seem to want to even talk about it.

My pup is 11 months and not neutered. The vet told us to switch him to an industry approved food at 6 months so he is on Science Diet adult large breed. I have seen Royal Canine for Goldens which has intrigued me, as well as the raw diet.

What do you feed your golden? Do you have any recommendations? Just curious!

Thank you in advance! :laugh:


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## DblTrblGolden2 (Aug 22, 2018)

I personally would not do a raw diet without speaking to a nutritionist before hand. Are you aware of the studies linking DCM in Golden's to taurine deficiency from grain free diets? Are you having issues on the Science Diet? I didn't personally have good luck with the Royal Canine, but many people do. My choices tend to be Purina Pro Plan, Science Diet, Royal Canine, Eukanuba.... I'm sure there's one I've missed.

I've spoken to the nutritionist at Purina, and Royal Canine and found them to be very knowledgeable and helpful if you have specific questions. 

There is a FB group Taurine Deficiency in Golden Retrievers that has a ton of information if you would like more.

I know everyone has opinions on what to feed. I have one guy on an RX diet by Purina, and another on the Purina Pro Plan Sport 30/20. My dogs are extremely active hence the Sport 30/20.


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

I do a raw diets with my dog. I actually supplement with it. I do Kibble and I do Nature's Variety Instinct raw. They have Medallions in 1oz and patties in 4oz. It takes 2 patties a meal or I do a patty with kibble or I do kibble with 1 or 2 medallions in it. I have knowledge better than most about canine nutrition and I still would never attempt a raw diet that I would make my own, especially a recipe you get online. I only do commercially prepared diets where I know it's been tested pathogen free and safe to be fed raw and balanced with a guaranteed analysis. 



But the benefits or the raw diet are FAR superior then any kibble and any of those refrigerated foods like pet fresh which is pasteurized. You should also never have a taurine deficiency since you're feeding raw meat. Taurine is a meat protein based amino acid that gets destroyed in the cooking process. That is why they have to add it back into kibble. But raw uncooked meat is bursting with available taurine. 



Raw diets are infinitely better for kidney health, dental, balancing the gut with good bacteria, and digestion. Plus you get maximum nutrition so you feed less volume which should help guard against bloat/gastric torsion.


Just do some reading on raw diets but I really warn against making your own.


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## krist124 (Apr 19, 2019)

Thank you, @Maggie'sVoice and @DblTrblGolden2 for the replies! 

My golden isn't having any issues on Science Diet, but I have heard of the benefits of raw and wanted to research more. We are very strongly against a grain-free diet per our veterinarian. 

I appreciate the advice on the duo of kibbles and raw! I was thinking that if I were to switch my guy over in that direction, I would definitely use a commercially prepared diet. I have seen several of them through instagram and would obviously research further.


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

krist124 said:


> Thank you, @Maggie'sVoice and @DblTrblGolden2 for the replies!
> 
> My golden isn't having any issues on Science Diet, but I have heard of the benefits of raw and wanted to research more. We are very strongly against a grain-free diet per our veterinarian.
> 
> I appreciate the advice on the duo of kibbles and raw! I was thinking that if I were to switch my guy over in that direction, I would definitely use a commercially prepared diet. I have seen several of them through instagram and would obviously research further.



Just some info... The guy that formulated Nature's Variety Instinct Raw left Nature's Variety and he's the one that formulated Nature's Logic Raw food. Same guy but different. One has a lot of ingredients and the other , Nature's logic is a more limited number of ingredients.


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## krist124 (Apr 19, 2019)

thank you! this is really helpful!

My husband and I are kinda in the in-between of why switch if its not broken. I know people who are doing raw say that the benefits are huge, but its hard to find a lot of material to back it up.


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

krist124 said:


> thank you! this is really helpful!
> 
> My husband and I are kinda in the in-between of why switch if its not broken. I know people who are doing raw say that the benefits are huge, but its hard to find a lot of material to back it up.



Some benefits... 



One is the natural enzymes on the meat that has not been cooked away. They will break down all the plaque and tartar on teh teeth and get in between teeth too, like flossing. Those same enzymes will travel down to the stomach and help seed the gut with good bacteria (balances the gut. Both help with bad breath as bad breath comes from plaque and tartar build up and a bad gut.


Two... maximum nutrition. when you cook food you destroy a lot of nutrients. This is the reason they add a vitamin and mineral package to the food, to re-balance it. With this being said, certain vitamins can be toxic in excess. Like Vitamin A. to much is toxic, but a raw carrot, the dog will take the beta carotene and create it's own vitamin A as it needs it and discards the rest, no excesses.anything cook is altered and anything synthetic like vitamins forces the body to try to absorb it.



Three... You aren't feeding a kibble that is just 10% moisture. Feeding raw food at 65-75% moisture means you will get healthier kidneys. Dry food absorbs a lot of the water your dog drinks. This in turn pulls the water through the colon and not let it pass to the kidneys to help keep them flushes. Your dog will probably drink less and go to the bathroom as much or a little more, this being healthier for the kidneys.


Four... at least up until a couple years ago, at that point there still was no known or reported cases of a raw diet killing dogs whereas with kibble, that certainly can not be said.


I would feed strictly raw if it wasn't going to cost me over $100 a month to feed so I supplement it with a high quality kibble. Though I may try to see if the bank account can handle it over a couple months and go from there.


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## krist124 (Apr 19, 2019)

Maggie'sVoice said:


> Some benefits...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Lots of excellent information there. I will admit I am very new at this and don't know much so all you time is helping me out a lot! Thank you!

This may be a stupid question. If so, I apologize. But, there is a lot of information out there about grain-free diets, taurine, etc. Feeding raw and food like Instinct would be grain-free generally, right? Would you supplement for taurine or am I just not thinking this through clearly.


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## Deborus12 (Nov 5, 2017)

We just switched our 15 month old golden boy over to 100% raw. We alternate proteins (Turkey, Beef, Chicken and Lamb) between Raw Bistro and Northwest Naturals. He's never done better....great poops, etc. By the way, we did not neuter him, but did a vasectomy as we have an intact young girl Boxer at home. It's worked out great.


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

krist124 said:


> Lots of excellent information there. I will admit I am very new at this and don't know much so all you time is helping me out a lot! Thank you!
> 
> This may be a stupid question. If so, I apologize. But, there is a lot of information out there about grain-free diets, taurine, etc. Feeding raw and food like Instinct would be grain-free generally, right? Would you supplement for taurine or am I just not thinking this through clearly.


It's ok, I'm glad to help.

No the grain free is implicated (and it's not all grain free) because a lot of the formulas use ingredients that aren't in the typical food formulas, they add the legumes and such because if a dog has issues with certain ingredients they use alternate ingredients. That was the original idea or reason they started the grain free fad. The issue is not enough taurine in the dry food and they get to much of their protein from the legumes ausing a deficientcy in taurine. There is plenty of taurine in raw meat. It hasn't been cooked away. The raw I feed Maggie is 95% meat and 5% fruits and veggies with no synthetic vitamins or minerals. So you should not have to supplement taurine with a few meat based food.


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## krist124 (Apr 19, 2019)

Deborus12 said:


> We just switched our 15 month old golden boy over to 100% raw. We alternate proteins (Turkey, Beef, Chicken and Lamb) between Raw Bistro and Northwest Naturals. He's never done better....great poops, etc. By the way, we did not neuter him, but did a vasectomy as we have an intact young girl Boxer at home. It's worked out great.


I am definitely leaning towards switching him over to 100% raw. We are in talks with a nutritionist at the moment, but the owner of our pup's school said that he has been raw feeding his 6 pups for 12 years! I am very interested about the vasectomy as well! Our pup is 11 months and the vet has wanted to neuter him at 6.. we pushed out to 12.. and now I am thinking about pushing out further. Why did you choose it? Thank you so much!


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## krist124 (Apr 19, 2019)

Maggie'sVoice said:


> It's ok, I'm glad to help.
> 
> No the grain free is implicated (and it's not all grain free) because a lot of the formulas use ingredients that aren't in the typical food formulas, they add the legumes and such because if a dog has issues with certain ingredients they use alternate ingredients. That was the original idea or reason they started the grain free fad. The issue is not enough taurine in the dry food and they get to much of their protein from the legumes ausing a deficientcy in taurine. There is plenty of taurine in raw meat. It hasn't been cooked away. The raw I feed Maggie is 95% meat and 5% fruits and veggies with no synthetic vitamins or minerals. So you should not have to supplement taurine with a few meat based food.


Thank you so much! I actually contacted a dog nutritionist to help too because raw is so highly recommended and I only really know as much as you've told me and the little bits I've gotten online!


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

krist124 said:


> Thank you so much! I actually contacted a dog nutritionist to help too because raw is so highly recommended and I only really know as much as you've told me and the little bits I've gotten online!


No problem! Make sure the guy has the correct credentials as a true nutritionist. To many people that think they really know sometime so they call themselves a nutritionist and in the end the dogs are the ones that pay the price.


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## Deborus12 (Nov 5, 2017)

krist124 said:


> I am definitely leaning towards switching him over to 100% raw. We are in talks with a nutritionist at the moment, but the owner of our pup's school said that he has been raw feeding his 6 pups for 12 years! I am very interested about the vasectomy as well! Our pup is 11 months and the vet has wanted to neuter him at 6.. we pushed out to 12.. and now I am thinking about pushing out further. Why did you choose it? Thank you so much!


This is probably the quotation from the Parsemus Foundation that had the biggest impact on our decision to do a vasectomy.


"A publication from U.C. Davis (2013) looked at two joint disorders and three cancers– hip dysplasia, cranial cruciate ligament tear, lymphosarcoma, hemangiosarcoma and mast cell tumor– and showed that, for all five diseases analyzed, the disease rates were significantly higher in both males and females that were neutered either early or late compared with intact (non-neutered) dogs. For males, the health pro and cons tip even more strongly in favor of keeping the hormones than in females, since the only health conditions prevented by neuter are benign prostatic hyperplasia in older dogs (which is treatable by neuter), and testicular cancer (which is also a disease of old age and treated by castration, which is usually curative)."


We wanted to give our new boy the best possible chance for good health in life and, since he is very well behaved (no humping, marking, etc) it seemed a great choice. We would probably have just kept him intact but we have a young female Boxer at home too.


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## debbie624 (Aug 10, 2018)

I also supplemented with Instinct raw medallions with Callie. It was 1 of her 3 meals where the other 2 were grain free kibble. Still don't know the cause of her passing last July but the ER vet suspected was blood clot and not heart related. That being said and all the DCM research, I am planning on feeding my new puppy who is 8 weeks old Purina Pro Plan for now and when she is older, will start to supplement with raw but commercial raw as it is treated to avoid bacteria. I also plan to consult a board-certified nutritionist to have a diet made for her bc I don't like the idea of the 4 big food companies that are recommended. That will be down the line though as I want to keep her on what the breeder has recommended. I also add warm water to her kibble to hydrate it as kibble is hard on the kidneys as Maggie's Voice discussed. I add enough to make the food float. If your dog is not used to this, add warm water in small amounts over time increasing it.


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## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

My education about pet food started with a subscription to _The Whole Dog Journal_. I've been subscribing to this monthly magazine for almost 20 years now and, although they have a definite "natural" bent, I've found them to be very balanced and science-based as well, and perfectly open to "traditional" ideas as an option to consider. I highly recommend it if you are just starting down the road of information about raw diets, holistic health care, positive training, etc. They have a yearly "recommended dog foods" issue that many consider the gold standard for quality dog foods (you have to be a subscriber to see the most recent list, but a Google search should bring up past years' lists). I also highly recommend checking out a website called "Dog Aware" - lots of really good health and nutrition information there!

FWIW I've been feeding my guys raw for about 15 years now. Like Eric, I have chosen to spend the money to purchase commercially prepared raw diets (Bravo, Nature's Variety, Stella and Chewy's, and Primal among others) just to be sure they are balanced. When money gets tight, I'll substitute in a good quality, all natural kibble for some of the raw. I used to use one of the many high-quality grain-free foods before the DCM scare, but I'm feeding some Fromm Gold right now (which has grains) until they figure out what's causing the DCM.

If you are just starting out, you can also start by feeding the best quality kibble you can and adding in some healthy people food in moderation (canned mackerel, lean cooked meats, pureed veggies, eggs, etc.). That Dog Aware site I mentioned has an article about adding fresh food to a kibble diet. Every little bit helps!

For now, I'd say just keep reading and educating yourself. If nothing else, learning to read a dog food label, and knowing what ingredients may _not _be the best choice for your dog, is a great start!


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

pawsnpaca said:


> My education about pet food started with a subscription to _The Whole Dog Journal_. I've been subscribing to this monthly magazine for almost 20 years now and, although they have a definite "natural" bent, I've found them to be very balanced and science-based as well, and perfectly open to "traditional" ideas as an option to consider. I highly recommend it if you are just starting down the road of information about raw diets, holistic health care, positive training, etc. They have a yearly "recommended dog foods" issue that many consider the gold standard for quality dog foods (you have to be a subscriber to see the most recent list, but a Google search should bring up past years' lists). I also highly recommend checking out a website called "Dog Aware" - lots of really good health and nutrition information there!
> 
> FWIW I've been feeding my guys raw for about 15 years now. Like Eric, I have chosen to spend the money to purchase commercially prepared raw diets (Bravo, Nature's Variety, Stella and Chewy's, and Primal among others) just to be sure they are balanced. When money gets tight, I'll substitute in a good quality, all natural kibble for some of the raw. I used to use one of the many high-quality grain-free foods before the DCM scare, but I'm feeding some Fromm Gold right now (which has grains) until they figure out what's causing the DCM.
> 
> ...



All good information but I have found the Whole Dog Journal to be bit political. It seems they are swayed and not sure why!? Nothing will change in formula and list or recommended foods is different from another. I mean some foods that were 1 and 2 would totally missing from the next list with no changes in any of the foods at all. They can have some good source material but I don't know if I'd ever trust their food evaluations.


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## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

Maggie'sVoice said:


> All good information but I have found the Whole Dog Journal to be bit political. It seems they are swayed and not sure why!? Nothing will change in formula and list or recommended foods is different from another. I mean some foods that were 1 and 2 would totally missing from the next list with no changes in any of the foods at all. They can have some good source material but I don't know if I'd ever trust their food evaluations.


I think it's just that over the years there have gotten to be so many foods that meet their criteria of a "good food" that they've added a few other criteria just to whittle the list down a bit. Things like the company being willing to share where their manufacturing facility is, or where they source their ingredients. It's not that the foods that used to be on the list have suddenly become "bad", WDJ is just holding them to a slightly higher standard. WDJ does not accept advertising, so I believe they are less biased and more balanced in their assessments than many other resources. I still trust their evaluations far more than most similar sites/resources and think it's a great resource for someone who is just starting to learn about what makes a high-quality dog food. It's also a nice, concise way for a newbie to take a list to a pet store or a website and be able to know which of the MANY foods offered might be worth trying.


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

pawsnpaca said:


> I think it's just that over the years there have gotten to be so many foods that meet their criteria of a "good food" that they've added a few other criteria just to whittle the list down a bit. Things like the company being willing to share where their manufacturing facility is, or where they source their ingredients. It's not that the foods that used to be on the list have suddenly become "bad", WDJ is just holding them to a slightly higher standard. WDJ does not accept advertising, so I believe they are less biased and more balanced in their assessments than many other resources. I still trust their evaluations far more than most similar sites/resources and think it's a great resource for someone who is just starting to learn about what makes a high-quality dog food. It's also a nice, concise way for a newbie to take a list to a pet store or a website and be able to know which of the MANY foods offered might be worth trying.



No I don't think it's about a food becoming bad that leaves a list or moves around. I think they are paid for placements. Maybe I'm wrong but there is no rhyme or reason for this. It makes no sense why the foods drop off the list and others come out of nowhere. And if it is like you say... I wouldn't trust them as they are just changing the list around arbitrarily? They should make a list or recommended foods if that is the case and not a top 10 foods. I don't listen to any sites actually. I feel they all have an agenda at some level. The best thing to do is to learn truly about canine nutrition and learn to to truly evaluate a food and you can make an informed decision. I have actually seen them knock a food for something and another food has the same thing but gets moved up for no reason. again, just not something I've learned to ignore, the websites top 10 foods lists and the like.


As far as lists to take into a store, they were still recommending all the grain free foods that have been implicated in the DCM issue with no cursory note attached to warn of a possible issue. These people aren't being informed to make an informed decision. In fact, they are still recommending foods with legumes in them.


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

I feel that the WDJ can be a good source of information about understanding what certain ingredients are but it just seems they don't know how to decipher their own information properly.


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## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

Maggie'sVoice said:


> No I don't think it's about a food becoming bad that leaves a list or moves around. I think they are paid for placements. Maybe I'm wrong but there is no rhyme or reason for this. It makes no sense why the foods drop off the list and others come out of nowhere. And if it is like you say... I wouldn't trust them as they are just changing the list around arbitrarily? They should make a list or recommended foods if that is the case and not a top 10 foods. I don't listen to any sites actually. I feel they all have an agenda at some level. The best thing to do is to learn truly about canine nutrition and learn to to truly evaluate a food and you can make an informed decision. I have actually seen them knock a food for something and another food has the same thing but gets moved up for no reason. again, just not something I've learned to ignore, the websites top 10 foods lists and the like.
> 
> 
> As far as lists to take into a store, they were still recommending all the grain free foods that have been implicated in the DCM issue with no cursory note attached to warn of a possible issue. These people aren't being informed to make an informed decision. In fact, they are still recommending foods with legumes in them.


I don't intend to get into a battle about this, but I just want to respond to a few of your points in defense of WDJ, and then I'm going to leave this thread alone and let everyone decide for themselves...

1) In the 20+ years I have been a WDJ subscriber I have NEVER seen or heard of any implication that WDJ gets "paid for placements." One of the reasons I trust them is that they do not accept advertising and I have never heard of them getting anything of value from companies in order to give good feedback about their products. If a food "drops off" the list, it's likely that either something changed (e.g., the brand was bought by a company WDJ has reason to distrust) or the food just no longer meets their higher criteria (e.g., the company wouldn't tell them where the food was manufactured or where the ingredients were sourced). If a new food appears, it's likely it's literally a _new __food _since the last time they did their review (or maybe a food that had a limited distribution prior to that year). I really don't think anyone is _paying _WDJ to put their food on the list!
2) It is NOT a "top 10" list. Their 2018 list (available via Google search if anyone is interested) has over 50 foods/brands on the list, organized by cost per pound. I have never heard them claim that there is a "best" food for every dog... in fact every year the list comes out they strongly encourage their readers to educate themselves about how to read a food label, they admit that just because a food is not on their list does not automatically make it a "bad" food, and basically they say that the "best" food for your dog is the food your dog does best on. They always have at least a brief discussion of what criteria they used to assess which foods make it to their "recommended" list in that given year. 
3) I agree that I would like to have seen a caveat on the 2019 list about concerns about the DCM and grain-free foods (though I also know WDJ has published several stories exploring the issue - most are available on line without a subscription if anyone is curious). That said, as I understand it, researchers have not yet _definitively _determined exactly _what _the link is between grain-free and DCM (they've determined a potential correlation, but not _causation_), so a wholesale dumping/trashing of a high-quality kibble based solely on a _suspected _link (not even knowing exactly what that link _is_), would also not be a wise thing to do. There are _many _dogs still eating grain-free foods who have not developed DCM, _and _there are plenty of foods on WDJ recommended list that include grains, so anyone who is concerned can still find the list of use. 

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion about this, but I stand by my assertion that the WDJ recommended foods list is an excellent tool for dog owners trying to determine what might be the "best" food or foods to feed their dogs.


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## danoon58 (Jul 1, 2015)

I feed my 4 year old Golden Retriever and his 10 year old Corgi brother raw. I purchase a ground raw from a local co-op. It's cheaper that way. I have had my Golden Retriever's taurine tested and it was fine. He has also had an echocardiogram. My boys get slices of chicken hearts (frozen) as treats to keep their taurine levels up.

By the way, my Golden is not neutered. I was planning on getting him a vasectomy at 2 years of age but, since there is no medical reason to do it, and he's never around female dogs, he is intact. Following is information from the Cuyahoga Valley Golden Retriever club regarding this: https://redirect.viglink.com/?forma...cvgrc.org/wp-content/uploads...-to-Neuter.pdf


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

pawsnpaca said:


> I don't intend to get into a battle about this, but I just want to respond to a few of your points in defense of WDJ, and then I'm going to leave this thread alone and let everyone decide for themselves...
> 
> 1) In the 20+ years I have been a WDJ subscriber I have NEVER seen or heard of any implication that WDJ gets "paid for placements." One of the reasons I trust them is that they do not accept advertising and I have never heard of them getting anything of value from companies in order to give good feedback about their products. If a food "drops off" the list, it's likely that either something changed (e.g., the brand was bought by a company WDJ has reason to distrust) or the food just no longer meets their higher criteria (e.g., the company wouldn't tell them where the food was manufactured or where the ingredients were sourced). If a new food appears, it's likely it's literally a _new __food _since the last time they did their review (or maybe a food that had a limited distribution prior to that year). I really don't think anyone is _paying _WDJ to put their food on the list!
> 2) It is NOT a "top 10" list. Their 2018 list (available via Google search if anyone is interested) has over 50 foods/brands on the list, organized by cost per pound. I have never heard them claim that there is a "best" food for every dog... in fact every year the list comes out they strongly encourage their readers to educate themselves about how to read a food label, they admit that just because a food is not on their list does not automatically make it a "bad" food, and basically they say that the "best" food for your dog is the food your dog does best on. They always have at least a brief discussion of what criteria they used to assess which foods make it to their "recommended" list in that given year.
> ...


I'm not arguing anything, it's called an opinion and info that you can go back a see. The top food list must have changed because it used to be a top 10 list. I can't see the list anymore since I no longer subscribe to that site. You may have never heard of that implication of pay for placement but I have, since at least as far back as 2009 and have heard it a lot and only speculation on my part. Plus there is a bit of anecdotal evidence that leaves it open for speculation. I also never said that was happening, but speculation with how they have ran that list, at least in the past. Again I feel they can be a good resource but their food recommendations, I wouldn't give you a dime for and that is my opinion. Like I said, new past, they've knocked a food and wouldn't recommend it for one thing while letting the same thing go in another food and recommended it. Makes you wonder.

So if they have changed in the last 5 or 6 years then that's great. I no longer subscribe to that site. I can only see what's on their public site and even looking last night, they still are recommending peas as an ingredient you want in your dogs food.


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## krist124 (Apr 19, 2019)

Thank you all so much for your feedback! We are in the process of getting our ducks in a row and will start our pup on raw next Wednesday. We received our nutrition plan and are in the process of gathering everything! I am excited to see where that leads us! I hope we are doing the best for our guy! I appreciate all your help!


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## krist124 (Apr 19, 2019)

Figured I would circle back from 3 months ago!

We switched our now 14 month old to raw and we couldn't be happier with it. He is happier and healthier. The first thing that we noticed was that he did not struggle to poop anymore and he now poops like a cat. He has dropped from 75 to 66 pounds of muscle and you can tell how much better he feels, especially when he exercises. And of course his coat looks amazing. He goes absolutely bonkers for the food and we are just so happy he is doing so well with it!

Since starting him, we also added a second boy to our family and we decided to feed him Royal Canin and will be switching him to raw around 1 year!

Thanks again for all your help!


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## Melfice (Aug 4, 2012)

Thanks for the update, and the raw diet has been amazing for my pups as well!


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## Mizz (Jul 28, 2019)

I wouldn’t recommend feeding both raw and kibble at the same time. I tried feeding kibble in the morning and raw in the night, but digesting two different consistencies messed with a dogs system. I personally feed Misty a homemade raw diet, but I did tons of research and spoke to an expert about it. I recommend starting with a commercial raw food, my favourite is Tollden Farms. I also switch between commercial and homemade raw.


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## emmabarnes1 (Jul 10, 2019)

Thanks to all for your valuable suggestions, I was also looking for help regarding golden food, whether to give Raw Diet or not.


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## Jessjack (Aug 11, 2019)

Regarding raw diets: Don't forget that dogs can get salmonella from raw poultry, just like people. Unless you are a nutritionist, I recommend using a high quality food from an established company like Purina, etc. These companies have experts in nutrition and extensive research labs that have been testing pet foods for many years. I stay away from "boutique" pet food companies that produce foods with ingredients that may sound appetizing to me but are of questionable value to my dogs. Also, it is very difficult to find out if and where some of these companies are doing any research on animal nutrition beyond basic quality control checks of the ingredients they are using. In fact, it is sometimes difficult to determine where exactly some of these foods are being manufactured.
If you are concerned about your dog's diet, I recommend doing your research, starting with your vet, checking out foods from well-established companies who publish their research results in professional journals, and reading the ingredients lists on the packages, and then making your choice. Good luck!


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

In truth it's hard for dogs to get salmonella from eating raw food. A dogs system is completely the opposite of a persons. They are equipped to eat carron (dead, rooting flesh). Food in a dogs system is in the stomach for 4-5 hours (for people it's maybe an hour on average) so the stomach acids kill the bacteria. The real reason for recalls for salmonella is the risk for people more than the dogs, especially kids and older people.


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## Jessjack (Aug 11, 2019)

Dear Maggie's Voice,

According to my vet, dogs are at risk for salmonella from raw poultry. I had a puppy years ago who died from salmonella a couple days after getting her shots. It was a very painful death. The necropsy showed salmonella. She had no other problems that could be detected. The rest of the litter was fine. The vet I took the litter to for shots had a large dead Iguana in the office on one of the exam tables. Also, they had carpeting in the office and exam rooms, which at the time I didn't think could be a very good idea. Did the vet wash his hands before examining my puppies? I don't know, but needless to say, I changed vets. 
The risk for getting salmonella from a raw diet may be small, but why take the risk? I think the best source for information on diets and Salmonella in dogs would be a good vet.


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

Jessjack said:


> Dear Maggie's Voice,
> 
> According to my vet, dogs are at risk for salmonella from raw poultry. I had a puppy years ago who died from salmonella a couple days after getting her shots. It was a very painful death. The necropsy showed salmonella. She had no other problems that could be detected. The rest of the litter was fine. The vet I took the litter to for shots had a large dead Iguana in the office on one of the exam tables. Also, they had carpeting in the office and exam rooms, which at the time I didn't think could be a very good idea. Did the vet wash his hands before examining my puppies? I don't know, but needless to say, I changed vets.
> The risk for getting salmonella from a raw diet may be small, but why take the risk? I think the best source for information on diets and Salmonella in dogs would be a good vet.



The Raw diets that are commercially prepared are tested before, during and after the freezing process. This is why I don't go buy raw meats from my local store and feed it raw to my dogs. They are handled properly from raw feeding. The FDA I think expects about 30% of raw chicken to be contaminated with salmonella. They expect that meat to be cooked to a point it kills the bacteria. 



You will hear of people driving an hour or 2 to meet a guy with a meat truck to buy raw chicken like feet, backs, breast meat etc just to save money feeding raw. These are the types of things I stay away from (local stores as well) and those are ways to have the food you feed your dogs to have a high level of contamination.


The risk with a commercially prepared raw diet is no greater than feeding a kibble for risk of salmonella. In fact I know as of a couple years ago (haven't checked lately) that there were no reported/confirmed cases of dogs dying from a raw diet but there have been hundreds and thousands of dogs that died from kibble.


The point about food and the vet. Vets only receive about 2 credit hours on nutrition in vet school and it's on farm animals (Horses, pigs, etc) and not on dogs/cats. So unless a vet really takes it upon themselves to learn about dog and cat nutrition after then fact, they are really behind the 8 ball on this. I would never expect a vet to be very up on dog.cat nutrition on a whole. I've seen vets just say all dogs should be fed once a day or a lab needs to eat 4 cups a day no matter what. Well, if 1 food has 350 kcals/cup and another has 550 kcals/cup you cant feed 4 cups to a higher calorie food. They don't even get this type of thing a lot of times. Just like our own Dr's, ask a lot of questions and learn for yourself and you will spot inaccuracies. 



You certainly should do what you feel is right for you and your dog. What I do for my dogs isn't what everyone will do and there are things people do with there dogs that I would never do in a thousands years. There is never 1 right way and all else is the wrong way. But Raw foods fed the right way is just as safe as kibble and maybe safer.


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## debbie624 (Aug 10, 2018)

Maggie'sVoice said:


> The Raw diets that are commercially prepared are tested before, during and after the freezing process. This is why I don't go buy raw meats from my local store and feed it raw to my dogs. They are handled properly from raw feeding. The FDA I think expects about 30% of raw chicken to be contaminated with salmonella. They expect that meat to be cooked to a point it kills the bacteria.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Eric, or anyone else here, are you familiar with OC Raw Dog? I just bought this for Coco, the pumpkin and sardine one. My pet health food store owner suggested it. I was afraid to give it to Coco though after reading the recall recently with Performance Dog frozen raw pet food with salmonella and listeria, the foood is completely unrelated to what I got Coco. Its a different brand but I got nervous after seeing this and wondered if I should wait to introduce raw to her diet. She is 7 months old now and I am feeding PPP still and have started to add in Farmina. Any thoughts?? And if its ok to feed the kibble and use the raw as a topper considering a concern that another member said here about feeding both kibble and raw.


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

I'm not familiar with that food but I mentioned in a different thread that I'm not a fan of small regional dog food makers like the performance raw food that just had the recall.

The issue with the really small regional companies is the possible lack of quality control for pathogens and imbalances. Hence if you look at the recalls for the raw foods, it's almost always the regional small companies. I get from the FDA every recall notice an any dog food or dog treats and it's virtually all the regional guys. That's why I like the bigger guys like bravo, Nature's Variety it even nature's logic. To a degree.


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