# Need help finding Sampson's Littermates/Pedigree



## K9-Design

I looked in K9data and found no litters sired by Casanova (Nautilus Purple Passion) born in October of 2007. I also searched for dogs named Keiko since that is rather unusual and about half a dozen dogs showed up, none of them seem logical matches for the time frame (or, they were males). So k9data appears to be a dead end from the information you've given.
Did you ever have Sampson registered with the AKC? It is easy to look up any other registered littermates if you have his AKC number, in AKC's online database.


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## puddles everywhere

I found a Facebook page for signature gold goldens... dated 10/14/2016 with a picture of a pup named KADA "Keiko's Great Grand" 
Guessing there is a relationship somewhere. I don't do Facebook so information is limited but thought you might want to explore.
Guess you could post that you are looking for litter mates but leave out the reason to get a better chance of responses.


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## MSmolinsky

We never registered Sampson. I found the same information that you found on k9data. I'm going to keep digging. I appreciate your response!


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## MSmolinsky

Yes, she has a website, but I doubt I'd get any response if I asked her directly. I took her to court over the hip issue when Sampson was a year old (I lost) so she's not my biggest fan. I believe Kada is the daughter of one of Sampson's littermates that the breeder kept, so she is Keiko's grand-daughter. Keiko's hip status was never posted on the OFA website so, that raised a red flag for me early on. I was able to find Casanova's hip status so I knew his hips were good. Based on the breeder's facebook page, it appears that both Keiko and the sibling from Sampson's litter that she kept (Koda) passed away last October. If there are health issues associated with Keiko, she shouldn't have kept breeding her. And now she is breeding her grand-daughters.

Finding Sampson's other siblings won't help Sampson's health. I'm just curious if others from his litter had similar issues.

Thanks for your response.


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## puddles everywhere

I sort of figured there was no love lost between you but unaware of a law suit. So I did find an offspring on Ofa.org for Nautilus Purple Passion that was born 10/7/2007 - Ripley's White Wedding, call name "Billie" but her mom was named Gold-Rush Ripley's Ruby Tuesday, call name Ruby not Keiko... busy boy.
I had some issues with my breeder too but certainly not to the level you experienced. I have often wondered about the other pups in the litter so can completely understand wanting to know. I'm sorry for having so many problems with Sampson, life isn't supposed to be this hard for either of you. 
Good luck on your quest and hope you get some responses.


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## BlazenGR

I found a littermate: Pedigree: Koda Dakota Of Signature Gold


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## nolefan

BlazenGR said:


> I found a littermate: Pedigree: Koda Dakota Of Signature Gold


Nice work


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## Lovemydogs4ever2

This is Amy from Signature Gold Goldens & I feel really bad for Sampson because he really deserves a home with someone who loves him completely. From day one you were worried about the price of your puppy And just days after you got your puppy you called saying if he has any problems I can get a refund right. I offered to take him back right from the start because you were worried about the cost of your puppy. Later you tried to take us to court for $5500 & you lost. you tried to say that your puppy could have hip issues in the future, and that is why you brought us to court & yes they are known for that as golden retriever bred & as we showed you in court all hip test done which are not just our dogs but their parents parents and many many generations back, all our dogs are from top breeders all over the us & even Europe. At the time you bought Sampson he was $1200. Lucky you because my dogs I buy to breed are $3500-$4500 And you are right my dog keiko did die 2016 and she was 12 1/2 old, God Bless her she was an amazing dog & a great companion & she was Sampson mom. In all my years as a breeder, you are my only person to complain. I Saw your post on google and if this slander continues I will have no choice but to file a defamation lawsuit.


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## Megora

@Amy - I agree it's insane taking a breeder to court over hip dysplasia. 

Did have a question though for both you and the OP on some of the other things listed.... 



> He was diagnosed with hip dysplasia at 9 months and he now has dilated cardiomyopathy, protein-losing nephropathy, liver disease, and hypothyroidism


I think that hypothyroidism needs to be stricken from the list because it is so common, particularly with older dogs. 

The liver disease and kidney disease (protein-losing nephropathy) - are concerning if this happened when he was young. If they were late onset - the questions I would ask is what had been fed or given to the dog early on or through his life which may have contributed to both conditions. From what I understand... if it occurs later in life, it can be caused by a variety of things. Sometimes medications (prolonged use of pain meds or medications). Sometimes contact with toxins. Sometimes food (if fatty or poor quality food). Sometimes just simply aging or affects of something else (like the enlarged heart). 

The enlarged heart is something that brings to mind the taurine deficiency thing that everyone is hyping up right now. Was wondering if anyone thought that could be tested at this point?

Or going back to the breeder - have you heard from anyone else? 

I'm asking because I'm trying to decide if I'm "worried" about the Taurine stuff going around to the extent of getting my boys tested or not. Have never had heart issues with any of my dogs. But I do know people who oddly lose multiple dogs (of different breeds and kept in shape) to heart failure.


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## Prism Goldens

And this is an older thread, though the breeder probably brought it to an even higher google rating by posting on an old thread. I too thought of taurine...


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## Lovemydogs4ever2

Hi Megora 
Puppies are not fully grown until they are 2 years old and OFA does not do X-ray ratings until they are fully groan, the owner of Sampson was like I said trying to get a full refund as soon as she took Sampson home but insisted she was going to keep him too. Her dog was not diagnosed with hip dysphasia, when she went to court she told the judge her dog COULD have Hip dysphasia in the future and she had nothing to stand on so it was thrown out of court. As far as any other health issues I have not heard a thing about any health issues with her dog Sampson until it was posted on google this April 2017 & when my vet read it he said she needs to be better informed as to what she is trying to say came from genetics. Everything we feed our dogs directly effect their health, so many people don't understand the impact of their dog food, so this is why we tell people to keep their dogs on a well balanced diet, we also add in our contract that our dogs get fed Bil-Jac which is an amazing dog food. Understandably most new puppy owners do not know this so we do our best to inform them. We also recommend NuVet vitamins for all our puppies and we start them on them at 8 weeks & that gets our puppies ready for their new homes at 10 weeks old. We have not had any complaints or anyone informing us of any heart or other health problems & we have been Breeding for 15 years


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## Megora

> the owner of Sampson was like I said trying to get a full refund as soon as she took Sampson home but insisted she was going to keep him too. Her dog was not diagnosed with hip dysplasia, when she went to court she told the judge her dog COULD have Hip dysplasia in the future


My head is spinning at the audacity! All the more since she was seeking $6K in the lawsuit. 

With my older dog who has hip dysplasia, I did have a guarantee. But it was as follows:

1. The dog had to have the hips/elbows checked with OFA. <= This included prelims since people get the hips checked at the time of neutering. They just wrote into the contract that vet opinion alone was not good enough. It had to be something officially from OFA. This also guaranteed that the hips would be set up properly (ofa positioning).

2. I had to provide vet information showing the weight of my dog and health history. Because written into the contract - I had to show I did not allow my dog to get obese nor was there an injury that possibly could have caused hip issues. Also, had to prove I did not neuter my dog early.

^^^ If I had the above, I was then entitled to get 1/2 the puppy price back on proof of neutering. The first 1/2 portion paid was nonrefundable. 

^^^^ I wasn't interested in getting my money back nor did I wish to neuter him for health reasons (the breeder and I fully discussed this at the time I was given the contract).

But that's a typical guarantee. Other kind would require that the person return the dog in order to get their money back. 

Only other thing I've heard as far as people getting their money back is if something catastrophic goes wrong very early with a puppy....


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## Ljilly28

My beloved veteran dog Tally is a Casanova grandson, and I had the great pleasure of watching Casanova show at Yankee Golden has a white faced old man. He lived a very long life, and was a dog I just loved with the friendliest temperament . My heart goes out to Sampson, and all goldens struggling with chronic health issues. The thing is, it is human nature to blame breeders , but so much of the time we simply do not know why some dogs( and humans) get sick or thrive. No breeder every wants anything sad or bad to befall the babies they raise with so much hope for their futures. I have made mistakes in selecting pups, and I have to take responsibility for failing in my on due diligence or simply accept that creating living things is perilous sometimes even when intentions are pure. Although I also live in Maine, I have never met Amy at shows or obedience/agility etc so I really don't have any knowledge of the program.


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## MSmolinsky

Thank you. This is the puppy from Sampson's litter that the breeder kept. I think he has passed away.


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## MSmolinsky

@Lovemydogs4ever2 (Amy): Please don't imply that Sampson didn't go to a loving home. That is ridiculous. He has been loved and very well taken care of since day 1. He has been fed high quality food and supplements needed for his hips and has had top-notch medical care. The cost of Sampson wasn't an issue. The health guarantee was, as it was unclear as to what was covered and what the recourse was in the case of illness or health issues. I showed it to several lawyers who agreed with me and who advised me to take legal action regarding his hips. I am not just a money-hungry person who had buyers remorse after purchasing a puppy. I was trying to do the best for Sampson who, in the opinion of my veterinarian and an orthopedic specialist at Tufts Veterinary Hospital, would need surgery to replace at least one hip. The vet at Tufts wanted to do the surgery at 1 year as Sampson was already showing arthritic changes on x-ray. This isn't something I just made up and it certainly isn't what I wanted for Sampson. And, for the record, the reason the law suit was thrown out was because my damages exceeded the amount that could be awarded in small claims court, not because you won any legal argument.

We continue to do our very best for Sampson and have spent about $4000 in diagnostics and medicine since December for his current illnesses and issues. His hips are bad enough that he drags his back feet when they get sore or tired enough. His pain is being managed medically. I lift and/or carry him when he needs some help and I bought him a special stroller so that he can still enjoy walks with us and can always be with us. So, whatever you say, PLEASE don't try to say I don't love him. You have no idea.

There are 2 sides to every story and people reading and responding to this thread can choose to believe whichever side they'd like, but only you and I know what really happened. My Google Review is honest and truthful. There is not one word in it that is untrue so, there is no slander or defamation there.


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## MSmolinsky

@Megora (Kate): Sampson was always fed high quality food as suggested by our vet. His hip dysplasia was managed with supplements and has just started on pain meds now. He has been healthy (except his hips) until just after turning 9 and we still don't have a definitive diagnosis. We know he has hypothyroidism, some age-related liver disease and protein losing nephropathy, A recent re-test echo-cardiogram indicates that he has some thickening of his mitral valve, but his heart seems to be pumping ok. He has an overall weakness that they can't seem to diagnose, but he's holding his own for now. L-taurine supplements were suggested for his heart.


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## MSmolinsky

Megora said:


> My head is spinning at the audacity! All the more since she was seeking $6K in the lawsuit.
> 
> With my older dog who has hip dysplasia, I did have a guarantee. But it was as follows:
> 
> 1. The dog had to have the hips/elbows checked with OFA. <= This included prelims since people get the hips checked at the time of neutering. They just wrote into the contract that vet opinion alone was not good enough. It had to be something officially from OFA. This also guaranteed that the hips would be set up properly (ofa positioning).
> 
> 2. I had to provide vet information showing the weight of my dog and health history. Because written into the contract - I had to show I did not allow my dog to get obese nor was there an injury that possibly could have caused hip issues. Also, had to prove I did not neuter my dog early.
> 
> ^^^ If I had the above, I was then entitled to get 1/2 the puppy price back on proof of neutering. The first 1/2 portion paid was nonrefundable.
> 
> ^^^^ I wasn't interested in getting my money back nor did I wish to neuter him for health reasons (the breeder and I fully discussed this at the time I was given the contract).
> 
> But that's a typical guarantee. Other kind would require that the person return the dog in order to get their money back.
> 
> Only other thing I've heard as far as people getting their money back is if something catastrophic goes wrong very early with a puppy....


 @Megora (Kate): Please don't categorize me as audacious. You don't know the whole story and are only choosing to believe half of it. Sampson WAS diagnosed with hip dysplassia at 9 months. The diagnosis came from my vet *and* OFA. OFA categorized his hips as MODERATE hip dysplasia. I had his x-rays done at the time of his neutering, as you suggest in your post. Also, as you suggest in your post, I only originally asked for half of the price of the puppy back when I got the diagnosis, just as you indicate was the recourse in your health contract. I had all of the documentation that you say was required in your contract to get half of the price of the puppy back. I only sued when I had two medical opinions that hip replacement surgery would be needed and I sued for the price of one surgery as advised by three lawyers. The law suit was dismissed without prejudice (meaning I could sue in superior court) because my damages exceeded the amount allowed in small claims court in the state of Maine. I am not the uncaring, money-hungry person that Amy is trying to portray me as. I was trying to do the best for Sampson, who I love very much. Try not to jump to conclusions based on one side of the story.


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## Megora

MSmolinsky said:


> I only sued when I had two medical opinions that hip replacement surgery would be needed and I sued for the price of one surgery as advised by three lawyers.


Here's the issue.

Hip dyplasia is genetic across the board. It's why every generation gets their hips (and elbows checked). It's in the breed. 

And it is also caused or exasperated by environmental stuff + neutering early. 

I removed the rest because it was something of an explosion of astonishment that anyone would sue a breeder to cover hip surgery for moderate hip dysplasia. There's need for common sense. Don't burn your bridges.

^^^^ And might add. I don't know the breeder. Have not gone out of my way to look them up or spend too much energy doing so. LOL. I did think twice about whether or not the breeder actually DID full clearances or not. Or if they were one of those that has it plastered all over their websites that their dogs are genetically free of X or Y stuff because they are special.  

I do think that even if you did purchase a puppy whose parents do not have full clearances behind them, it was something you did at your own risk. I don't think you can or "should" sue unless you can prove the breeder was really deliberately breeding dogs who have catastrophic hips and were producing the same.


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## Lovemydogs4ever2

MSmolinsky said:


> @Lovemydogs4ever2 (Amy): Please don't imply that Sampson didn't go to a loving home. That is ridiculous. He has been loved and very well taken care of since day 1. He has been fed high quality food and supplements needed for his hips and has had top-notch medical care. The cost of Sampson wasn't an issue. The health guarantee was, as it was unclear as to what was covered and what the recourse was in the case of illness or health issues. I showed it to several lawyers who agreed with me and who advised me to take legal action regarding his hips. I am not just a money-hungry person who had buyers remorse after purchasing a puppy. I was trying to do the best for Sampson who, in the opinion of my veterinarian and an orthopedic specialist at Tufts Veterinary Hospital, would need surgery to replace at least one hip. The vet at Tufts wanted to do the surgery at 1 year as Sampson was already showing arthritic changes on x-ray. This isn't something I just made up and it certainly isn't what I wanted for Sampson. And, for the record, the reason the law suit was thrown out was because my damages exceeded the amount that could be awarded in small claims court, not because you won any legal argument.
> 
> We continue to do our very best for Sampson and have spent about $4000 in diagnostics and medicine since December for his current illnesses and issues. His hips are bad enough that he drags his back feet when they get sore or tired enough. His pain is being managed medically. I lift and/or carry him when he needs some help and I bought him a special stroller so that he can still enjoy walks with us and can always be with us. So, whatever you say, PLEASE don't try to say I don't love him. You have no idea.
> 
> There are 2 sides to every story and people reading and responding to this thread can choose to believe whichever side they'd like, but only you and I know what really happened. My Google Review is honest and truthful. There is not one word in it that is untrue so, there is no slander or defamation there.


I'm truly sorry if my opinion did hurt your feelings that is not my intention but it truly was my opinion. I just don't understand how you have so many health concerns with Sampson but instead of contacting me you posted the problems on google & in this forum? I guess I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish in hunting down his siblings, I spoke to my Vet when I saw your post on google about the health issues you posted & his opinion was you haven't been informed with information as to the health concerns instead of blaming his genetics. I am not a person who likes confrontation or he said she said so again if there were health concerns then you should have contacted me to address your concerns. I will not go back and fourth like this on these chats, but I wish you all the best with Sampson.


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## MSmolinsky

Megora said:


> Here's the issue.
> 
> Hip dyplasia is genetic across the board. It's why every generation gets their hips (and elbows checked). It's in the breed.
> 
> And it is also caused or exasperated by environmental stuff + neutering early.
> 
> I removed the rest because it was something of an explosion of astonishment that anyone would sue a breeder to cover hip surgery for moderate hip dysplasia. There's need for common sense. Don't burn your bridges.
> 
> ^^^^ And might add. I don't know the breeder. Have not gone out of my way to look them up or spend too much energy doing so. LOL. I did think twice about whether or not the breeder actually DID full clearances or not. Or if they were one of those that has it plastered all over their websites that their dogs are genetically free of X or Y stuff because they are special.
> 
> I do think that even if you did purchase a puppy whose parents do not have full clearances behind them, it was something you did at your own risk. I don't think you can or "should" sue unless you can prove the breeder was really deliberately breeding dogs who have catastrophic hips and were producing the same.


I get all that and I understand that it runs in the breed. There is way more to this story than I could ever or would ever want to put in print here. I understand and respect your post (I read it before you deleted all of it), but there is more here than meets the eye and a lot transpired regarding this issue. The biggest issue was that the status of the dam's hips were in question, in my mind. as they were not listed on the OFA website and her preliminary status is all that was given to me and I was told that it was "Good" on one occasion and "Fair" on another occasion. When I asked for documentation to confirm her hip status is when cordial communication ceased. I just wanted to know that the breeder didn't knowingly breed a dog with questionable hips.

The law suit came after an orthopedic specialist said that Sampson already had arthritic changes in his hips at 1 year old and he indicated that he would need surgery (he wanted to do it then). I got advice from 2 vets and 3 lawyers before filing. It is not something I took lightly, nor was I being shady or looking to pad my wallet. Try not to judge when you are not privy to the entire situation.


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## Prism Goldens

So, at the end of this day, do we know if the dam of Sampson had a hip clearance?
That is an important piece- because even though people believe they can trust breeders who say they have a clearance, we see every day that that statement is often not true. 
If you know going in you're a lacking a clearance, that is a risk you took. But if you were lied to that is a totally different thing.We talk till we're blue in the face about why clearances are important- they cut your odds on a condition that is in our breed... yet we get wannabe breeders here who believe breeding their bitch right now on prelims is more important that waiting 6 months and doing things the right way. As long as this continues, and no one posts the 'I bought a pup bred on prelims and am sorry I did' stories, the buyers might find us here a little over the top with our insistence that they need clearances on sire and dam.
I'm sorry of course for Sampson's illnesses and your pocketbook damages in caring for him. I wish the day would come we would not have to worry so much - 
did his dam have clearances?


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## MSmolinsky

Prism Goldens said:


> So, at the end of this day, do we know if the dam of Sampson had a hip clearance?
> That is an important piece- because even though people believe they can trust breeders who say they have a clearance, we see every day that that statement is often not true.
> If you know going in you're a lacking a clearance, that is a risk you took. But if you were lied to that is a totally different thing.We talk till we're blue in the face about why clearances are important- they cut your odds on a condition that is in our breed... yet we get wannabe breeders here who believe breeding their bitch right now on prelims is more important that waiting 6 months and doing things the right way. As long as this continues, and no one posts the 'I bought a pup bred on prelims and am sorry I did' stories, the buyers might find us here a little over the top with our insistence that they need clearances on sire and dam.
> I'm sorry of course for Sampson's illnesses and your pocketbook damages in caring for him. I wish the day would come we would not have to worry so much -
> did his dam have clearances?


The dam, Keiko, was bred by Signature Gold Goldens of Southern Maine. You are right that I took a risk that I shouldn't have taken. Hindsight is 20/20. But, I'm glad that you are one of the few in this thread that GETS the issue. No, I don't believe the dam's hips were cleared. I was told that her preliminary status was "Good" when I bought Sampson. When he started showing signs of problems I asked again and was told that Keiko's hip status was "Fair." When Sampson's preliminary status came back from OFA as Moderate Hip dysplasia, I asked the breeder for a copy of the documentation of Keiko's hip status, but she would not provide it. I searched the OFA website, but her status was never published. The law suit was not so much about money but more to find out if the breeder was breeding a dog with questionable hips. To this day, I do not know the status of Keiko's hips.

I assure you that Sampson is very loved and very well cared for. I would spend my last dollar to make sure he is happy and healthy and enjoying life. I started this thread to see if other dogs from the same parents had similar health issues and to find out what treatments worked best for them so I can help Sampson.


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## MSmolinsky

Ljilly28 said:


> My beloved veteran dog Tally is a Casanova grandson, and I had the great pleasure of watching Casanova show at Yankee Golden has a white faced old man. He lived a very long life, and was a dog I just loved with the friendliest temperament . My heart goes out to Sampson, and all goldens struggling with chronic health issues. The thing is, it is human nature to blame breeders , but so much of the time we simply do not know why some dogs( and humans) get sick or thrive. No breeder every wants anything sad or bad to befall the babies they raise with so much hope for their futures. I have made mistakes in selecting pups, and I have to take responsibility for failing in my on due diligence or simply accept that creating living things is perilous sometimes even when intentions are pure. Although I also live in Maine, I have never met Amy at shows or obedience/agility etc so I really don't have any knowledge of the program.


I thank you for your post. Casanova was beautiful and so is Tally!! I remember looking Casanova up when we bought Sampson and admiring his beauty! My concern was regarding the status of the Dam's hips as I never really got a clear answer as to their status at 2 years; only two different answers as to her preliminary status (good and fair). I really wanted to make sure the breeder didn't knowingly breed a dog with questionable hips and I never really got that answer. I was hoping the suit in small claims court would bring about an answer to that question. If I had to judge the breeder on the beauty and temperament of her dogs, she would get high grades. It's just unfortunate that communications broke down when I pressed for documented evidence that the dam had good hips. I should have insisted on that before taking Sampson home. We love him and do our very best for him of course and I would not trade him for anything in the world!


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## ArchersMom

If this is the dam, which by all appearances it is, she never had hip or elbow clearances Pedigree: Gold-Rush Keiko's Golden Rules


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## Prism Goldens

MSmolinsky said:


> The dam, Keiko, was bred by Signature Gold Goldens of Southern Maine. You are right that I took a risk that I shouldn't have taken. Hindsight is 20/20. But, I'm glad that you are one of the few in this thread that GETS the issue. No, I don't believe the dam's hips were cleared. I was told that her preliminary status was "Good" when I bought Sampson. When he started showing signs of problems I asked again and was told that Keiko's hip status was "Fair."


Here's the thing- the risk is one the BREEDER should not have taken. There's never a reason for breeding on prelims. It's banking on something we have no way of knowing the true odds of. 

And if breeder is still coming by and reading, I certainly hope a love for the breed will keep you from taking these sorts of risks in the future. There really is no reason to risk the possible pain in future puppies, or the families who have to watch these puppies suffer.


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## Megora

MSmolinsky said:


> Try not to judge when you are not privy to the entire situation.


No... actually, you provided more information than I considered. I read your 
initial post with the list of health issues and was considering all of those and then saw the post by breeder regarding the lawsuit. 

I was flabbergasted at the idea of somebody filing a lawsuit against a breeder and trying to get 2x the cost of the pup back over moderate HD.... 

It wasn't after I saw your response just now that I went back and saw you had mentioned before that the mom was bred on prelims. Well dang, _that's _a problem and huge red flag about _any _breeder. And it completely presents your issues is a completely different light, including explaining why you were immediately freaking out about what all you were getting yourself into, getting the hips checked, etc. 

Sorry for jumping to conclusions on this one and obv not reading every post before commenting. I do have some very good excuses for not being completely "with it" today, but I did comment previously...


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## MSmolinsky

Lovemydogs4ever2 said:


> Hi Megora
> Puppies are not fully grown until they are 2 years old and OFA does not do X-ray ratings until they are fully groan, the owner of Sampson was like I said trying to get a full refund as soon as she took Sampson home but insisted she was going to keep him too. Her dog was not diagnosed with hip dysphasia, when she went to court she told the judge her dog COULD have Hip dysphasia in the future and she had nothing to stand on so it was thrown out of court. As far as any other health issues I have not heard a thing about any health issues with her dog Sampson until it was posted on google this April 2017 & when my vet read it he said she needs to be better informed as to what she is trying to say came from genetics. Everything we feed our dogs directly effect their health, so many people don't understand the impact of their dog food, so this is why we tell people to keep their dogs on a well balanced diet, we also add in our contract that our dogs get fed Bil-Jac which is an amazing dog food. Understandably most new puppy owners do not know this so we do our best to inform them. We also recommend NuVet vitamins for all our puppies and we start them on them at 8 weeks & that gets our puppies ready for their new homes at 10 weeks old. We have not had any complaints or anyone informing us of any heart or other health problems & we have been Breeding for 15 years


 @Lovemydogs4ever2 (Amy): Just to be clear (and honest), I never requested a full refund for Sampson, that is untrue. It is also untrue that he hadn't been diagnosed with hip dysplasia when we went to court. I have plenty of documentation from vets and OFA to support his diagnosis. With respect to the case being "thrown out" because I had "nothing to stand on," this is also untrue. The case was dismissed without prejudice (meaning I could sue again in a higher court if I chose to do so, and I would have if not for a family tragedy that occurred around the same time) because my damages were higher than what was allowed in small claims court in Maine. It had nothing to do with lack of evidence since the judge dismissed the case without even hearing the evidence. I have plenty of documentation to discredit you and your statements here so, be careful about threatening me with slander and defamation. I didn't start this discussion to bash you, I was merely looking for Sampson's litter mates to find out if they had any similar issues and what they did to treat them, but, since you have decided to chime in, let's make sure to set the record straight.

Don't worry about hurting my feelings, we are way beyond that. Your opinion doesn't really matter to me. You were uncooperative and unwilling to help during Sampson's first year. Why would I reach out to you for help now? I figured I could get more helpful information here. I asked you for a hard copy of the documentation of Keiko's OFA hip status/clearance after Sampson's diagnosis and you refused to provide it. I searched the OFA database for months and years to follow, but her hip status was never published. Why is that? That raises a HUGE red flag for me. If her hips were good, why wasn't her clearance published (another person on this thread has confirmed that her hips were not cleared)? Did you breed her based on preliminary results without ever re-checking her hips? I'm guessing you won't answer these questions, just as you refused to answer them when I requested this information so many years ago. You kept Koda from Sampson's litter and I believe (based on Facebook posts) that he has also passed. What did he die from? Did he have any of the illnesses that Sampson now has? How were his hips? If you sincerely want to be helpful, give me some of the answers I've been looking for.

I'm truly happy that I have been the only one who has ever come back to you with issues about a puppy's health. I wouldn't wish for anyone to go through all that we have with Sampson. It's really too bad that you were so uncooperative in sharing information and offering any help to us for Sampson (aside from taking him back which I can't imagine anyone doing after loving a dog for the better part of a year). Our experience with you could have been so different had you just been more willing to step up and help rather than becoming defensive and difficult. You had the opportunity to do what was right, but you chose not to and that's really too bad.


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## MSmolinsky

ArchersMom said:


> If this is the dam, which by all appearances it is, she never had hip or elbow clearances Pedigree: Gold-Rush Keiko's Golden Rules


 @ArchersMom: YES! That is her. What is the number next to her AKC Registration number (4-08)? Is that the date of her AKC registration? Does that mean that she was not registered prior to that date? Do breeders typically breed dogs that have not been properly registered? I'm just trying to understand any implications here. 
Sampson was born in October of 2007 so when would breeding have occurred?


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## MSmolinsky

To all that have contributed to this thread: Here is a picture of Sampson in his new buggy. I bought this so he can continue to enjoy "walks." He walks until he's tired or sore and then he rides. He is very loved!


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## Prism Goldens

MSmolinsky said:


> @ArchersMom: YES! That is her. What is the number next to her AKC Registration number (4-08)? Is that the date of her AKC registration? Does that mean that she was not registered prior to that date? Do breeders typically breed dogs that have not been properly registered? I'm just trying to understand any implications here.
> Sampson was born in October of 2007 so when would breeding have occurred?


The date after the reg # is the date she was entered into the stud books of AKC. So that's when her first litter was registered.


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## Prism Goldens

MSmolinsky said:


> @ArchersMom: YES! That is her. What is the number next to her AKC Registration number (4-08)? Is that the date of her AKC registration? Does that mean that she was not registered prior to that date? Do breeders typically breed dogs that have not been properly registered? I'm just trying to understand any implications here.
> Sampson was born in October of 2007 so when would breeding have occurred?


Weird- I answered this and it never posted...
So,that date is the date she entered the AKC stud books... so her first litter was applied for registration that mon/year.
She was registered prior that of course, but until a dog reproduces they do not go in the stud book.
Good breeders don't typically breed dogs on prelims (save that random rare accident). I'm guessing if his litter was born 10/07, and she didn't enter books till 4/08, either the breeder never registered his litter and bred her back to back on next heat, or she didn't apply to register the litter he came from till 6 months later.

If I get time I will go back and try to find sibs for you on akc which would not give you contact info but you might could run some ads in local papers, look back on correspondence from when the litter was growing up and see if they were group emails, etc.


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## ArchersMom

Sampson looks very cute and happy in his cart


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## solinvictus

Pedigree: Koda Dakota Of Signature Gold Koda was born 10/27/07 and has an AKC number. I don't find anything on him or his mom on offa. Is Koda Sampson's brother? Was Sampson registered? Why not add him to k9data? It looks like this breeder has been breeding all of these years but I don't see any goldens registered in offa with the Signature Gold in their name.


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## puddles everywhere

Not to get off topic but curious... what would be the reason for a breeder to NOT register a litter? I'm in a similar situation, the breeder made a point of being responsible for registering the litter. She refused to give papers to new owners yet only 2 show up with AKC.
Just trying to understand the logic.


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## Prism Goldens

Signature was Rita Langston- I guess this Signature Gold is someone else, Rita has died years ago. 
But if you see Signature without the Gold piece, it's probably Rita's breeding. I hate it when people "borrow" well known kennel names. But I don't know this gal, for all I know Rita told her to do it. 

Not registering litters- sometimes people don't in the case of an accident, or in the event that they haven't paid the stud dog, or because of the money to do so if they anticipate their buyers won't want registration. It isn't costly (but of course, many things are inexpensive like listing eyes on OFA but people cite cost as a reason not to) somewhere around $25 plus $2 per puppy. And there's almost always a coupon code available to Breeders of Merit . 
Sometimes they don't get to it and are poorly organized so keep putting it off till it's at the pay extra place, and then never do- those people I think of as the sort who hold papers till spay/neuter.


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## Prism Goldens

Laura-LJACK- you input a dog Knight's Shelby on k9data. I feel like this is connected to this dog somehow- do you remember (I know... like me you do a lot of them so fat chance) where that dog came from?


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## Prism Goldens

Here is the stud dog of the OPs breeder- Luka- Pedigree: Most Wanted of the Morning Valley I did check OFA and no clearances.

Koda is his litter brother. To the OP, none of the other puppies in that litter were AKC registered assuming there were 9 or fewer of them. I didn't keep going past #9.


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## MSmolinsky

Prism Goldens said:


> Here is the stud dog of the OPs breeder- Luka- Pedigree: Most Wanted of the Morning Valley I did check OFA and no clearances.
> 
> Koda is his litter brother. To the OP, none of the other puppies in that litter were AKC registered assuming there were 9 or fewer of them. I didn't keep going past #9.


 @Prism Goldens (Robin): Yes, Koda is Sampson's brother from the same litter. The breeder kept him and I think he has passed. Her stud dog, Luka, is also not showing hip clearance on OFA? What would be reasons for not publishing this? Wouldn't a reputable breeder want their dog's clearances published on the OFA website to show they have ensured the health of the dogs they are breeding?


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## Megora

One thing to throw out there.... 

There is no "opt out" for publicly showing passing grades on OFA if you do finals. 

The opt out if if your dog did not pass and you did not want negative results to show on OFA. 

There is an opt out if you have prelims done. You can opt whether or not you want those to be shown on OFA.... but those are not final clearances. So it really doesn't matter. A lot of breeders do not even send prelims in to OFA. They get the peeks done at a vet they trust and make "keep or go" decisions based on what they see with the rads.

If a breeder says they have OFA clearances on all their breeding dogs.... and some like to plaster that OFA logo on their websites to make it look official (LOL).... you should be able to take the registered name of their breeding dogs (that are currently being used) and find hips/elbows listed on OFA. 

Eyes/heart are not always posted on OFA - sometimes it is because the clearance is done on the spot at the cardiologist or the eye specialist. They should be posted on OFA (publicly accessible by anyone) if you are breeding your dog.

Eyes should be done every year or at the very least done the same year the dog was bred. 

If any breeder tells you that they have full clearances on their dogs - it should be publicly visible on OFA - at least with hips and elbows. Again, there is no opt out if finals have been done. 

If they are not on OFA - it means the hips/elbows were either not done or the dog failed those clearances.


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## Prism Goldens

MSmolinsky said:


> @Prism Goldens (Robin): Yes, Koda is Sampson's brother from the same litter. The breeder kept him and I think he has passed. Her stud dog, Luka, is also not showing hip clearance on OFA? What would be reasons for not publishing this? Wouldn't a reputable breeder want their dog's clearances published on the OFA website to show they have ensured the health of the dogs they are breeding?


No hip/elbow are on OFA because he doesn't have them.
There is no opt-out on passing clearances, if you have them, they are up.
It is POSSIBLE he has a cardiac and eye clearance and the Signature Gold breeder didn't send them in to OFA to be verified (and that absolutely should be done, because they are easy to falsify and alter so it is only through the verification of those clearances that we are sure they really exist and say what we believe they say as to health of heart and eyes). 
Yes, a _reputable breeder_ would of course have everything listed. But this is a weirdly difficult to uncover situation with the dogs on the website. My guess is that the breeder has no clearances on any of the dogs there. The few we do know AKC numbers on do not even have offspring with clearances (if that happens, OFA notes 'dog known only through parentage'). And k9data is such a wonderful tool for good breeders, one would think that Amy Boothby would have all her dogs in the database so that she can use those good tools such as test breedings, etc. There are no AKC records through catalog text that show her as an owner of any dogs who have been entered in AKC events. It's very weird.


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## Ljilly28

Amy Boothby, the Golden Retriever Club Of Maine and the Lewiston Auburn Kennel Club are both having upcoming eye & hear clinics if Signature Gold is interested in joining us? One of them is in Cumberland Center- you can PM me if you want info.


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## Prism Goldens

Ljilly28 said:


> Amy Boothby, the Golden Retriever Club Of Maine and the Lewiston Auburn Kennel Club are both having upcoming eye & hear clinics if Signature Gold is interested in joining us? One of them is in Cumberland Center- you can PM me if you want info.


She can't PM yet- but you could PM her.. 
if she is reading: Clinics are a WONDERFUL low cost way to get heart and eye clearances on multiple dogs all the same day. Take Jill up on info, and pack them all up and go get those knocked out! Don't forget to mail in to OFA once you get the clearances.


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## Ljilly28

The Lewston Auburn bi-annual Heart, Eye & Repro clinic is Sunday, Sept 24th in Cumberland ME. Dr. Ruth Marrion, ophthalmologist and Dr. John MacGreggor, cardiologist will be screening 20 dogs an hour. The Repro Vet, Dr. Michael Norris from Broadview will set 30 minute appointments for collecting. Please email, call or text if you need appointments. [email protected]

The Maine Golden Retriever Club is excited to be offering an all in one Health Clinic this fall! Conveniently located in Windham ME and offering OFA X-rays with or without sedation (depending on the dog) , Cardiologist exams, ophthalmologist exams and microchips! Help us make this a successful event!


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## MSmolinsky

I want to sincerely thank all for the helpful information you've provided. It may not help Sampson at this point in his life, but it has educated me on what good breeders should do to ensure healthy puppies. It has also confirmed for me that I wasn't wrong to question the breeder about hip clearances back in 2008 when Sampson started showing symptoms (first sign was a hopping gait). All of this will make me better informed when it's time to get a new puppy and I hope this thread helps others so they can avoid the heartache of a less than 100% healthy dog. I'm so glad I joined this forum and I look forward to more great information!


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## Sandy22

MSmolinsky said:


> To all that have contributed to this thread: Here is a picture of Sampson in his new buggy. I bought this so he can continue to enjoy "walks." He walks until he's tired or sore and then he rides. He is very loved!


I have no expertise to add here, just wanted you to know that Sampson's story touched my heart, and I love the picture of him in his buggy. Thank you for taking such good care of him!


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## MSmolinsky

Sandy22 said:


> I have no expertise to add here, just wanted you to know that Sampson's story touched my heart, and I love the picture of him in his buggy. Thank you for taking such good care of him!


Thank you so much! He is such a beautiful, sweet boy. I will do all I can to keep him happy and enjoying his doggy life for as long as I can!


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## BlazenGR

Prism Goldens said:


> Weird- I answered this and it never posted...
> So,that date is the date she entered the AKC stud books... so her first litter was applied for registration that mon/year.
> She was registered prior that of course, but until a dog reproduces they do not go in the stud book.
> Good breeders don't typically breed dogs on prelims (save that random rare accident). I'm guessing if his litter was born 10/07, and she didn't enter books till 4/08, either the breeder never registered his litter and bred her back to back on next heat, or she didn't apply to register the litter he came from till 6 months later.


Actually, that isn't entirely true. The stud book dates are ~3-4 months after a first litter is registered, not the same month. For example, I have a bitch that whelped her first litter in May 2013; her stud book date is 8-13, even though the litter was registered the first week after they were born.


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## BlazenGR

Prism Goldens said:


> Signature was Rita Langston- I guess this Signature Gold is someone else, Rita has died years ago.
> But if you see Signature without the Gold piece, it's probably Rita's breeding. I hate it when people "borrow" well known kennel names. But I don't know this gal, for all I know Rita told her to do it.


Before that, Signature was Robyn Stirrat in the 80s-90s. As in:
Am CH Signature's Sound Barrier OS (2/22/1987-) [OFA GR-29877F26M] ---James' sire (CH Asterling's Wild Blue Yonder)


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## MSmolinsky

To all who contributed to this thread: It is with a heavy heart that I report the passing of my sweet boy, Sampson. His heart disease (DCM) progressed and he developed an arrhythmia. He was being treated by a cardiologist, but even the best care and medication couldn't fix his ailing heart. I am heartbroken to lose my boy before he even reached his 10th birthday.


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## nolefan

I am so sorry for your loss - you all have been through a lot. He is free of his body and any pain, I know you will miss him terribly, but I hope he is running free now. My heart goes out to you, it's just so hard. Maybe you would like to start a different thread and share some photos and stories of the good times, I think that can help the grieving process a bit. When you are ready. Hugs.


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## LanceMacy857

Not to get off topic but curious... what would be the reason for a breeder to NOT register a litter? I'm in a similar situation, the breeder made a point of being responsible for registering the litter. She refused to give papers to new owners yet only 2 show up with AKC.
Just trying to understand the logic.


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