# English Creme Golden Breeder Questions



## Rainheart

I would find a different breeder. It looks like they do hips and elbows on some of their dogs, but what about eyes and hearts? Also, it doesn't look like they show in any kind of venue.
The use 'English creme' as a marketing ploy... bad sign.


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## Swampcollie

Nairb said:


> Is anyone here familiar with this Minnesota breeder?
> 
> MN ENGLISH GOLDEN
> 
> I'm new to this forum, and Golden Retrievers in general. I spoke with her on the phone, and everything seems legit, but was wondering if anyone here has experience dealing with this breeder, or knows someone who has.
> 
> Thanks.


I wouldn't. Let's leave it at that.


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## Nairb

*Swampcollie...*

Thanks for your input, but you didn't give any reasons. I see you're from MN. Are you familiar with this breeder, or do you have other reasons? Can you recommend any breeders in the area? 

Thanks!


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## sterregold

Reputable fanciers of the English style do not market their dogs as "cremes". They are referring to dogs as "Full English" but they are not English imports--instead they appear to be from Eastern Europe and maybe Scandinavia from what I can tell of the limited names posted.

Here is a better place to start looking if you are interested in the English style. English Goldens in North America - Litters - Breeders - Stud Dogs It also has a good explanation of what to look for in a good breeder and some of the warning signs that point to a "white golden" pusher.


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## Nairb

*Sterregold...*

That's a very useful resource. Thanks.


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## Tahnee GR

I have to say that I find their "guarantee" to be a bit of a sham as it requires the return of the original puppy. Of the breeders I know with guarantees, no one requires the return of the original puppy. The only reason I can think of to require the return of the puppy, is because the breeder knows that most people will not do that, as they will become attached to the puppy.


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## Lilliegrace

Beware with the "English Cream" come on. These dogs originate in Eastern Europe and come with a whole lot of baggage. The white color is a genetic variant. Its no indication the dog originated in England or Scotland. There is a lot of hype associated with this dog, and the price may reflect this. Some breeders may take advantage of this and you may be blinded to underlying disease. English Creams do not have genetic preponderance to cancer, hips and eyes more than any other retriever.

You bring a Golden into your life not because of the color, but because of the breed.


I have not heard anything bad about this breeder, but just going through the web site sends up red flags.

There are some " English Cream " breeders I would avoid like the plague. They are documented on this forum and others.

We got an English Cream some years ago. It was a disaster.

Enough said.


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## vcm5

Unfortunately I just have to ditto what everyone else has said - steer clear!


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## Nairb

Thanks for all of your responses. I don't have a color requirement, but ran across the website and was stricken by the beauty of the dogs. I was not aware of potential problems with these dogs or the breeders. For all I know, they may be legit, but after further research, and from the advice I've received here, my search continues. I can't believe how difficult it is to find a breeder that meets all of the requirements listed in some of the articles I've read. 

If anyone can recommend a good breeder in my area, I would appreciate it....Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska, etc. I live in Minnesota but am willing to travel a bit if necessary.


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## Nairb

By the way, it doesnt need to be an English Golden. We just want a good, healthy dog from a reputable breeder.


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## Jamm

Doolin goldens is in Wisconsin (i think) and they have BEAUTIFUL dogs. Sophies mom Sophie and Sawyer are from there and they are the cutest dogs! Thats about the only breeder I am familiar with in that area  Im sure other members will chime in


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## Shalva

There is nothing wrong with a dog of UK origin but the problem can be finding a reputable breeder and because of the hype surrounding this style there are 10 bad breeders for every one reputable breeder.... 

There ARE reputable breeders of English style dogs... but finding them can be a bit more work. If you don't care then just find a reputable breeder and don't worry about the rest ...


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## Jamm

^ what Shalva said. There has been many people using the 'english creme' as a marketing tool and do nothing with their dogs. If you search 'english creme breeders' in the search you'll find many debates.


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## Nairb

I'm now in contact with this breeder.... www.cedargoldens.com/

They're out of Wisconsin, and look good from what I can see.


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## Casey and Samson's Mom

Have you contacted your local golden retriever club? Ours has a list of breeders who are all members of the club, the ckc (I'm in Canada), do needed clearances and establish life long relationships with their puppies people. I would not consider a breeder in our area who is not a member of the club.


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## Lilliegrace

I once had some correspondence with Mac Macrae,(sic)

He is a breeder in Wisconsin.

I highly recommend him. He does belong to the forum,. I am not sure if he is still in the business.

Good luck in your search. Its worth it.


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## Thegoldenclaa

Welcome to the forum. :wavey:I recently asked for breeders is WI. Here is a link to the thread: http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...er-puppy/107421-breeders-west-central-wi.html
I hope it helps you. I know everyone here has helped me figure out what we are looking for and where to look. We are hoping to get a puppy from Linda/Tahnee this spring. :crossfing You'll have to decide what kind of dog you want and then everyone here can help you find the right breeder. Where in MN are you? You could contact your local club for a breeder referral list.


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## Lilliegrace

I have heard good report s about Hearts of Gold breeder in Wisconsin. A friend got one with them and she was very happy


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## Nairb

Casey and Samson's Mom said:


> Have you contacted your local golden retriever club? Ours has a list of breeders who are all members of the club, the ckc (I'm in Canada), do needed clearances and establish life long relationships with their puppies people. I would not consider a breeder in our area who is not a member of the club.


Thanks for that. I did not know that there would be a local club. It turns out there is. There's actually a contact person for people looking for a breeder. 

There's also a listing on the site for 2 puppies with impressive pedigrees that were born on Nov. 3rd. Breeders Page I'm curious as to why these dogs are still available. I may call to find out.


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## Sally's Mom

People sometimes back out at the last minute for whatever reason.... Ask the breeder why the pups are still there....


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## Sally's Mom

Isn't Mac, Doolin Goldens?


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## Tahnee GR

Sally's Mom said:


> Isn't Mac, Doolin Goldens?


Yes-and I know that he and Kristin aren't planning any litters for a very long time  They were kind enough to share a girl from their last litter (Smidge to Sydney) with me. I'm hoping to convince them to take a puppy out of Suva in a few years when it is (hopefully) her time for puppies


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## jacksonjack

Hi, first off let me say that I'm new here so take what I say with a grain of salt. I happen to be a fan of the so called English type golden retrievers. I happen to like the look of the lighter golden vs the darker red colors that you see. I also happen to like the blockier look that is associated with the English type. With that being said... I agree with half of what's being said . You should get your dog from a reputable breeder that does all the tests. You do this for a couple of reasons, it promotes the breed and good dogs being bred and it may save you a ton of heartache and money because you got a dog with a lot of problems throughout thier lives .
The part I disagree with is when people tell you that you shouldn't choose a dog that you like. If you like the English type get one. Nearly everyone here got the dog they liked. They looked at the parents, looked at the pups and picked up the one that grabbed thier heart. 
I did the same thing as you. I found a dog that looked good then came here and asked. I pretty much got the same response as you. I took thier advise and kept looking. I found an experienced breeder that showed all thier results of thier testing. I'm
Picking up my pup March 10th


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## sterregold

Nairb said:


> I'm now in contact with this breeder.... www.cedargoldens.com/
> 
> They're out of Wisconsin, and look good from what I can see.


Tom and Mary have a good reputation from what I know of them. Nice dogs--one of their boys was WD at the Canadian National in 2010--a very handsome boy.


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## OnMyWay2MyDreams

I say that those cedar goldens look very nice and they do compete with their dogs. I would look into them a bit further if youre still looking.


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## vixen

Ceder looks good from here as well there bitch
Stanroph Smile Of Success has a very good pedigree from an english point of view.

Acherly wouldn't mind a Stanroph pup myself, very nice dogs


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## Nairb

Thanks again for all of your replies. Prior to asking about the questions yesterday, I knew next to nothing about selecting a breeder. You've helped immensely. I stumbled across this forum by accident. I'm glad I found it. 

I'm in contact with Cedar Goldens, and another breeder from Minnesota. Tomorrow, I plan to contact the local Golden Retriever Club for their input as well.


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## damita

Jane Docter of Docmar Goldens is a truly outstanding breeder who has impeccible ethics! I know she is waiting to see if one of her girls is pregnant but know she often has a long waiting list. Waiting can be hard but honestly when you hope this dog will be with your for the next 10-15 years - what is 6 months to a year of waiting? She is located in Duluth.


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## becky101803

Have you looked at Dichi Goldens in Portage, WI? We got Lucy from them and it is an amazing place. There are several Dichi owners on here.


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## Tahnee GR

damita said:


> Jane Docter of Docmar Goldens is a truly outstanding breeder who has impeccible ethics! I know she is waiting to see if one of her girls is pregnant but know she often has a long waiting list. Waiting can be hard but honestly when you hope this dog will be with your for the next 10-15 years - what is 6 months to a year of waiting? She is located in Duluth.


I'll second the vote for Jane-she is a very careful breeder, and breeds for the whole package!


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## Buddy's

I also spoke to this breeder when I was researching breeders. I chose to go elsewhere for a variety of reasons, but at the end of the day I was just not comfortable with this breeder. I agree with you that finding a good breeder is extremely difficult. As soon as you think you found a good one, you realize that you will have to take out a second mortgage to afford their prices. I ultimately did not find EVERYTHING I wanted, but I was able to find a breeder that would allow me to come meet both the sire and dam, see her home where the puppies were being raised, had the clearances I was seeking, and I felt comfortable that she was taking excellent care of the puppies. I was never comfortable with large scale breeders who just mass produce puppies and have a hard core sales pitch. I personally prefer the smaller breeders who ask you as many questions as you ask them. Keep searching... It is woth it in the end.


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## Nairb

Buddy's said:


> I also spoke to this breeder when I was researching breeders. I chose to go elsewhere for a variety of reasons, but at the end of the day I was just not comfortable with this breeder. I agree with you that finding a good breeder is extremely difficult. As soon as you think you found a good one, you realize that you will have to take out a second mortgage to afford their prices. I ultimately did not find EVERYTHING I wanted, but I was able to find a breeder that would allow me to come meet both the sire and dam, see her home where the puppies were being raised, had the clearances I was seeking, and I felt comfortable that she was taking excellent care of the puppies. I was never comfortable with large scale breeders who just mass produce puppies and have a hard core sales pitch. I personally prefer the smaller breeders who ask you as many questions as you ask them. Keep searching... It is woth it in the end.


I actually found a few that look good once I knew what to look for. At this point, I'm hoping to be able to work something out with Cedar Goldens, but if that doesn't work out, I have a couple of other options. I'll probably look into some of the other ones that have been mentioned here. That one in Duluth looks very good. 

That breeder of "creme" Goldens sent up several red flags, and I didn't even know what to look for. That's why I came here. She said she didn't allow people to visit their facilities (because she stays up all night with newborn puppies), bragged about herself repeatedly, talked about how her dogs should be selling for $3000, instead of the $1600 she charges, didn't list the registered names of all of her dogs on her website, and didn't respond for 48 hours when I emailed her to ask for the information. Actually, she still hasn't answered that question about the specific dog I asked about. When she finally did respond, she talked about how critical it is that I get my deposit in, because "she just pulled two of them out of the mailbox." When we got a cat from a shelter, they interviewed us and made us fill out an very extensive application, because they wanted to make sure the cat was going to a good home. 

This lady seems to only care about "moving" dogs. I could go on and on, but I wouldn't recommend getting a dog from her.


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## Doolin

Just came across this..... You are on the right track and I would second Linda's recommendation of Docmar goldens. I just saw Jane today at a show and some of her recent puppies and they are really nice and very sweet. Also you couldn't go wrong with Tahnee goldens either... as Linda mentioned that is where my next puppy will be coming from Don't tell my wife that yet though.:--keep_silent:


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## Shalva

Nairb said:


> and didn't respond for 48 hours when I emailed her to ask for the information.


let me just say one thing.... I agree with your entire post about the red flags that were raised and I am glad you found another breeder 

BUT 

can I just say that waiting 48 hours is not a red flag. We all have lives... we have dogs to deal with, if you have a litter its crazy busy and waiting 48 hours for a response is not a red flag... shoot I just got back to some puppy enquiries from the 23rd of February. I just didnt have the time.... 

good luck finding a pup 

S


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## Ljilly28

Wow, I have to agree with Shalva. If I go to a show or have full class days, it can sometimes take 2 or 3 days for me to even go through and listen to messages. Plus, we get about 25 a day.


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## Nairb

Shalva said:


> let me just say one thing.... I agree with your entire post about the red flags that were raised and I am glad you found another breeder
> 
> BUT
> 
> can I just say that waiting 48 hours is not a red flag. We all have lives... we have dogs to deal with, if you have a litter its crazy busy and waiting 48 hours for a response is not a red flag... shoot I just got back to some puppy enquiries from the 23rd of February. I just didnt have the time....
> 
> good luck finding a pup
> 
> S


I probably would not have considered that a "red flag" had it not been for all of the other "red flags." I didn't even list them all. Thanks for the feedback, though.


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## LovingBella

There is a breeder in Wisconsin that I have had my eye on for a while. Beautiful dogs. Hyline Golden Retrievers. I have no personal experience with them but I have admired their dogs for about 10 years!


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## kenitra

*Mn breeder*

I got my fabulous dog from Tails of Gold in Minnesota. Never visited as I live way out of state, but my experience was excellent and my Grover is just the biggest joy. My last golden died suddenly leaving me devastated and this breeder could have taken advantage of me but was very fair and you can look at her facebook postings and see lots of happy customers. Grover is an active agile dog, with the sweetest disposition ever. Good luck


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## golden_eclipse

kenitra said:


> I got my fabulous dog from Tails of Gold in Minnesota. Never visited as I live way out of state, but my experience was excellent and my Grover is just the biggest joy. My last golden died suddenly leaving me devastated and this breeder could have taken advantage of me but was very fair and you can look at her facebook postings and see lots of happy customers. Grover is an active agile dog, with the sweetest disposition ever. Good luck


According to the OFA website and search of their dogs, they only seem to test the Hips on their breeding dogs, which is not to the COE. I personally wouldn't recommend getting a puppy from a litter, where the parents and generations behind the parents have not been tested for Elbow dysplasia, heart defects (SAS) and eye abnormalities (especially with how awful PU is and other eye issues that have a severe impact on a dog's quality of life). I'm glad you're happy with your puppy, but health clearances are the bare minimum. They do seem to compete with some of their dogs which is nice, but health clearances also have to be there.

They're current litters are out of a dams who are not 2 years old yet, and have yet to acquire any final clearances...which would be a big red flag.


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## MyMaggieGirl

Doolin said:


> Just came across this..... You are on the right track and I would second Linda's recommendation of Docmar goldens. I just saw Jane today at a show and some of her recent puppies and they are really nice and very sweet. Also you couldn't go wrong with Tahnee goldens either... as Linda mentioned that is where my next puppy will be coming from Don't tell my wife that yet though.:--keep_silent:


 I'm tellin................


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## Tahnee GR

MyMaggieGirl said:


> I'm tellin................


LOL-luckily it will be a while before Suva or Bug has any puppies!


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## Nairb

This was my first post after I stumbled across this site. Needless to say we did not get our puppy from that breeder (Minnesota English Goldens). Coincidentally, a family from my son's cub scout pack got a puppy from them. This came up in conversation with the scout's mom at camp this summer a couple weeks prior to picking up our puppies. 

Our puppies were born with 3 days of each other. She did not visit the breeder before hand, and was offered the last pick of the litter. As I mentioned earlier, the breeder told me she does not allow visitors. 

They picked up their puppy at 7 weeks. Obviously too early. 

For weeks, they had a hard time getting the puppy to eat puppy food, because the breeder only fed him chicken and rice. 

It sounds like there were other issues too. I hope everything works out for them in the long run. 

I can't thank you all enough for the advice. I probably would have steered clear anyway, but you all confirmed many of my suspicions!


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## nolefan

Bella is precious, so glad your research has paid off!


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## Jersey's Mom

Your pup is adorable! Did you wind up going with Cedar?

Julie, Jersey and Oz


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## Nairb

Jersey's Mom said:


> Your pup is adorable! Did you wind up going with Cedar?
> 
> Julie, Jersey and Oz


Yes. The dad is from Cedar. We were waiting on a litter that ended up not being born, but they had bred their stud dog to a dog owned by their good friend. Bella comes from that litter.


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## mamallama

Nairb, where is cedar goldens located? Thanks!


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## Nairb

mamallama said:


> Nairb, where is cedar goldens located? Thanks!


Fremont, WI. 

Here's their website. 

http://www.cedargoldens.com/


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## mamallama

Thank you! Your pup is beautiful! Did you go visit her before you picked her up?


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## Nairb

mamallama said:


> Thank you! Your pup is beautiful! Did you go visit her before you picked her up?


Thanks. We visited Cedar. Our whole family spent two hours there. We were anticipating a pup from a breeding they did with Flurry, but she "absorbed" the litter. They did not know until a week or two prior to the due date. Fortunately, they bred Eddie to a dog owned by a good friend of theirs from Illinois. We had to wait several more weeks, but it was well worth it. Since it was a 9-10 hour drive, the owner of Bella's mom didn't require us to drive to Illinois. The Schulz's vouched for us. We also met at Cedar to pick Bella up. We were there for another 2-3 hours that day. They are all first class. They plan to repeat this breeding, but I'm not sure when.


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## TeamBurke

*Thanks and help?*

I just stumbled across this site and am so thankful. I just lost my 15 year old "blonde" retriever. I had been looking for another breeder as the one I used before doesn't anticipate any more litters. I found MN English Goldens and was struck with how much they looked like my dog. But also felt pressure to send a deposit and even to get a puppy before my dog passed away. I've read this thread and am wondering if anyone has any english golden breeders to recommend? Thanks!


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## Nairb

TeamBurke said:


> I just stumbled across this site and am so thankful. I just lost my 15 year old "blonde" retriever. I had been looking for another breeder as the one I used before doesn't anticipate any more litters. I found MN English Goldens and was struck with how much they looked like my dog. But also felt pressure to send a deposit and even to get a puppy before my dog passed away. I've read this thread and am wondering if anyone has any english golden breeders to recommend? Thanks!


I wasn't necessarily looking for an English Golden, or even a lighter one. As an inexperienced puppy buyer, I stumbled across that website. I doubt very much that I would have purchased a puppy from her, but the responses I got from the knowledgeable people on this forum made certain that I steered clear. 

Did you ask if you could visit? 

Did she tell you about he $20,000 stud dog that she purchased from Europe?

Did she ramble on and on about the vets from all over the country that refer their clients to her?

Did she tell you that people have told her that she should be charging $3000 for her puppies? 

To the handful of people that I scrapped with on that breeder thread the other day. I was only trying to help out the new member, but I see your point more clearly now. No hard feelings, I hope. 


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


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## TeamBurke

Nairb-

I do appreciate your red flags there. It confirmed my feelings after communicating via email with them there. I never actually spoke with her, but felt lots of pressure to commit to litters that "sell out" and the benefits of having a puppy around a dying dog. That just didn't ring true to me. The dogs look sweet, but there were lots of unanswered questions that I feel are pretty important. I'm currently looking at options including Cedar, that you used, and Kyon in Canada.


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## Nairb

TeamBurke said:


> Nairb-
> 
> I do appreciate your red flags there. It confirmed my feelings after communicating via email with them there. I never actually spoke with her, but felt lots of pressure to commit to litters that "sell out" and the benefits of having a puppy around a dying dog. That just didn't ring true to me. The dogs look sweet, but there were lots of unanswered questions that I feel are pretty important. I'm currently looking at options including Cedar, that you used, and Kyon in Canada.


That sounds like a creepy thing for them to be saying in an email. 

I don't know anything about Kyon. I still keep in touch with Mary from Cedar, and think very highly of them. Their dogs aren't 100% "English Goldens," but a mixture of both, I think. They are a little lighter in color than most, if that's what you're looking for. They seem to have had decent success in the show ring. Also, Tom is a judge. 


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## Conquerergold

TeamBurke said:


> I've read this thread and am wondering if anyone has any english golden breeders to recommend? Thanks!


I would encourage you to visit, and read all the available information on English Goldens in North America - Litters - Breeders - Stud Dogs it is a small community of reputable breeders of English Style (but, there are many reputable breeders out there that are not listed on this website). This should be a good starting point in your search.

Best of luck!!
Cheers
Rob


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## Nairb

Conquerergold said:


> I would encourage you to visit, and read all the available information on English Goldens in North America - Litters - Breeders - Stud Dogs it is a small community of reputable breeders of English Style (but, there are many reputable breeders out there that are not listed on this website). This should be a good starting point in your search.
> 
> Best of luck!!
> Cheers
> Rob


That site is how I got in touch with Cedar, but as I said, their dogs are not 100% English. It looks like their bloodlines need to to have "pedigrees that reflect at least 50% post-1950 Golden Retrievers imported from the UK, Europe, Australia, and/or New Zealand, or their fresh or frozen semen."

If I wouldn't have found this forum, I never would have known about Cedar.


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## mamallama

Nairb, I wanted to let you know we are getting a baby from Cedar on Friday!!! So excited!


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## Nairb

mamallama said:


> Nairb, I wanted to let you know we are getting a baby from Cedar on Friday!!! So excited!


Congratulations! Looking forward to pictures. 


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## Nairb

The sire of your puppy is also the sire of Bella's sire, Eddie. I guess that would make your puppy Bella's uncle or aunt. LOL. Are you getting a male or female?


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## Nairb

Once again....to the members who I had a disagreement with over perceived rough treatment of a new member on another thread....I was wrong. The breeder threads are valuable resources to those looking for a puppy - even if it means harsh words are needed to make a point. Moreover, they are searchable, and will continue to educate prospective puppy buyers for a long time. 

I apologize.


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## mamallama

We are getting a female.


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## Nairb

Make sure you post some pictures right away!


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## Goldman4

Nairb said:


> Is anyone here familiar with this Minnesota breeder?
> 
> MN ENGLISH GOLDEN
> 
> I'm new to this forum, and Golden Retrievers in general. I spoke with her on the phone, and everything seems legit, but was wondering if anyone here has experience dealing with this breeder, or knows someone who has.
> 
> Thanks.


Go elsewhere. I bought a puppy from this breeder and the pup has SAS, which is a heart valve defect. I contacted the breeder and she said I could return my pup. Yeah right. Who on earth could do that. This lady loves to hear herself talk and has an annoying habit of ending everything she says with " you know what I mean". After 50 times of hearing "you know what I mean" I start going crazy myself. 

I asked her if she knew what SAS was and she had no clue and told me I was the first client to ever tell her this. Luckily my pup has a mid case but still for $2,500 I would expect better breeding. I should have done more homework but we had just lost our 13 year old Golden and our other 3 dogs and my wife and I were in a funk and needed to help transform the energy in our home. 

The breeder was a bit funny about the money too. It had to be wired to her account and that was the only way to pay her. I don't know if this is normal or not but she said she wouldn't send my pup so I better hurry. Needless to say I had it done within hours and then she made excuses about her vet not being able to get her in and her not being able to send my pup blah blah blah..... "You know what I mean". Lol.

Didn't care for the breeder at all but love my pup except she's a bed hog.


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## Sally's Mom

If someone is breeding Goldens and charging that much, they should know,what SAS IS...


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## Goldman4

Sally's Mom said:


> If someone is breeding Goldens and charging that much, they should know,what SAS IS...


I agree and wish I had done more homework. Unfortunately I made an emotional purchase and didn't have the knowledge of SAS because my other 3 goldens were rescues and have no issues with their hearts. That's why I posted here though so I could save someone else from this kind of trouble. Our old goldy that passed had such bad problems with arthritis, stenosis, and thyroid that we thought by purchasing a high quality pup with everything checked out on the parents that we might avoid the agonizing issues our poor old Abby had to go through. I guess the best we can do is take good care of her, feed right and cross our fingers.

One other note. The breeder is a heavy pusher for her food which is a multilevel marketing program. She tries to pass off problems as us feeding wrong even though we feed only foods like Blue Buffalo, Wellness, Natural Balance.... Those darn multilevel marketers are pushy and annoying.


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## CLadams

Nairb said:


> Is anyone here familiar with this Minnesota breeder?
> 
> MN ENGLISH GOLDEN
> 
> I'm new to this forum, and Golden Retrievers in general. I spoke with her on the phone, and everything seems legit, but was wondering if anyone here has experience dealing with this breeder, or knows someone who has.
> 
> Thanks.


If the breeders name is Elaine I did get a puppy from her last yr. Norman is doing great a beautiful dog very sweet! And have been happy with him. Hope this helps you. 

Now reading all of this sas stuff I am nervous about my baby boy!! Hope these other dogs from her turn out okay along with mine.


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## Goldman4

My pup has a mild case. My original post I accidentally wrote a mid case. Sorry the ipad spell checker has a mind of its own. 

I hope Norman is SAS free. Hopefully he is from different parents. The cardiologist did say that with a mild case it should not impact the pups life too much. If I was Normans parent i would see a k9 cardiologist just to be in the safe side. They need antibiotics after any procedure to make sure nothing attacks the heart. Better safe than sorry in my opinion. Cost of the cardiologist was about $900 and included the ultrasound and a 24 hour rental of a heart monitor that the pup had to wear at home. It fit like a wetsuit with a controller on top of the back.

I was nervous to get my pup fixed right when I found out because I was a little paranoid about the anesthesia. The breeder actually gave me grief about it because of her stupid contract. I actually had to remind her that I was letting her know so she would not breed her dogs again and I would never ever breed mine knowing it had SAS. She thinks people are stupid and she's brilliant.


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## dkander

WoW!!! That's about all I can say! I am so sad I didn't find this site sooner=..( I am the one Nairb is referring to that got a lemon of a dog from this breeder. I too have learned a very hard lesson here. We got our dog jn June of 2012 and didn't have any prior experience dealing with breeders. We have dumped so much money into our sweet dog after being promised a sound healthy dog. I haven't been able to find much information on this lady outside of this site. I would love to get in touch with some other owners to see if there is something that can be done. She shouldn't be allowed to continue breeding unethically like that! I looked on her site around Christmas time last year and was saddened to see the parents of my dog had another litter ready to go home just six months after mine was born. I could go on and on but don't have time right now. I will be back though and plan on utilizing this site much more now that I found it. Thank you everyone for your input!!


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## Golddust

Yes, I recommend MN ENGLISH GOLDEN. Good Breeder. I will adopt my 3rd Golden from her. I had a really great long life with my 1st Golden I adopted from her. Trooper lived 16 years. He died of old age. I just adopted my 2nd Golden from her last year. Our Golden is really smart, loving and healthy. We love his temperament. I have no problems. I have friends that adopted Golden from her and are happy too.


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## Dancer

Golddust said:


> Yes, I recommend MN ENGLISH GOLDEN. Good Breeder. I will adopt my 3rd Golden from her. I had a really great long life with my 1st Golden I adopted from her. Trooper lived 16 years. He died of old age. I just adopted my 2nd Golden from her last year. Our Golden is really smart, loving and healthy. We love his temperament. I have no problems. I have friends that adopted Golden from her and are happy too.


Suspicious. Joined yesterday. One and only post is to speak glowing praise for this breeder. I apologize if I'm wrong, but perhaps the posters with (or who're considering buying) these 'English Cremes' now have the opportunity to address their breeder, and welcome her to the forum? 


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## Prism Goldens

Wow, Dancer, did you go look at the MN site? Here's an exerpt from the contract-
After your pup is spay/neutered you will

then get your AKC registration papers. If puppy is not spay/neutered at 6 months, breeder has the right to pick up puppy with no refund. We do this to help control the pet population and also to protect our lines.

WHICH totally goes against all AKC rules, withholding papers is a no-no...and sorry, not neutering at or before 6 months, when all studies show waiting is healthier, is no reason to repossess an animal. It amazes me that anyone would sign such a contract.


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## Dancer

I haven't even really looked that closely, but I'm always suspicious of 'english cremes' recently imported from somewhere, with all kinds of foreign titles. Also worth noting for new folks: ANYONE can put ANY dog on K9 Data- this is not proof if registry, or proof that any of those dogs or titles even exist. Also- anyone can say in K9 Data that a dog's hips/elbows/heart/eye clearances are normal/good/clear/whatever- you need to look these results up with each agency to be certain (OFA, CERF, etc). Not implying anything about this specific 'breeder'- draw your own conclusions based on solid, undeniable proof. Ask for registration numbers and check with those governing bodies to see if a dog is even in fact registered. That's my advice for what it's worth, and hard-learned....so please find some benefit in it! 


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## Cook4u

Do NOT use this breeder. After March deposit, no communication. Non refundable. Moving on.


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## nolefan

Cook4u said:


> Do NOT use this breeder. After March deposit, no communication. Non refundable. Moving on.


They cashed a check from you four months ago and now won't return your calls or your emails? If that is the case, I would send them some registered mail and tell them to return your check before you contact your attorney.


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## Cook4u

The check was in March and cleared five days later. Registered letter sent and received.
Nothing in response. Will be pursuing consumer action.Disgusted.


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## nolefan

Cook4u said:


> The check was in March and cleared five days later. Registered letter sent and received.
> Nothing in response. Will be pursuing consumer action.Disgusted.


I'd be real tempted to have a website or a Facebook page put together with their kennel name in it detailing your experience so that anyone who does a search for that kennel name can see what you've been going through with them. And i would mention their name in every post on this thread so that this site will come up during searches also. Have you tried Facebook searches? That is just awful. Are they members of any clubs or the GRCA? You could also try registering a complaint with the AKC, I have no idea what their policy is, but if someone stole my money I would not go away quietly.


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## Cook4u

I am pursuing consumer action, although it may not result in a refund. The contract stated no refunds. Lesson learned.
Wish I would have found this forum before deciding to send the deposit.
Have lined up a breeder with whom we have gotten another puppy, so moving on.
No plans to put anything out there which could be legally actionable.


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## Cook4u

*Still no refund... Will*

Yesterday, on the day the MN English Golden puppy was to have been picked up 1200 miles from our home, and after a complaint was filed with the BBB, I finally received a series of angry texts which indicated that I was the one at fault for not texting. Who would travel when there was no information after the supposed birth? It has been over 4 months and nothing. 
I will follow this up with consumer complaints wherever appropriate.


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## lhowemt

As a business transaction you are pretty safe if you talk about your experience and the facts. Negative reviews are part of doing business, look all over the internet. 

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## Cook4u

MN English Goldens had no valid reason for not contacting us by phone. Our two phone numbers were on our signed contract. The owner said she would have returned the deposit IF I had not contacted the BBB, and that I should clear it up ASAP. We did not get any response from her at all UNTIL I reported it.


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## Cook4u

MN English Goldens would not contact us after many attempts, or return emails. If that is their customer service, then it's no place I would recommend. Consumer action is required.


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## lhowemt

Cook4u said:


> The owner said she would have returned the deposit IF I had not contacted the BBB, and that I should clear it up ASAP.


yeah right. Stick to your guns!

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## Cook4u

Every possible consumer action available to us will follow. It's the principle here.


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## Cook4u

Deposit refunded. It was "my fault" fault for not texting. Right.


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## nolefan

Glad you were able to have your deposit returned.


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## ArchersMom

Happy to hear you got your refund!


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## GeorgiaJones

*MNENGLISH GOlden Breeder*

I had to register to chime in on this breeder since we purchased from her. Many breeders won't even associate themselves with her. She is rude and uses the "accidentally bred a litter" excuse like it hasn't been heard from her before. When talking to other breeders, they say she alters the AKC names of dogs and brags champion lines for dogs which are not. We bought a second golden from another breeder and she was fantastic to deal with. I would strongly urge people to steer clear from this breeder. At the last minute before our litter pick, she changed our order to last pick after we were told otherwise. She yelled at me on the phone when I asked simple questions saying "how dare I question her litter pick practices". She seemed only in it for the money. When we arrived at her home, we could not even drive up her driveway until other family was out. Very strange! And lastly, she told me her husband was a vet and then her child slipped and said he went two years and quit school. In my opinion, she is a fraud. If you go read her BBB responses to complaints, it's easy to see she is a loud mouth badgering type of person with zero customer service skills in my opinion, she doesn't care about her customers, she cares about her pocketbook. Oh, and after we paid in full, we arrived and she tried to say that I owed her $300 more dollars because the puppy was that much more(because these are fluffy cremes that everybody wants)....until I pulled out her ad from the newspaper which showed her advertised price. Oh, and if you ask her for breeder rights....she will give you her spiel about how her dogs are $25,000 from the UK and she would have to charge $10,000 for breeding rights. I love love love Goldens but when I went to buy our second puppy several weeks ago, I went elsewhere. Sadly, people will continue to,experience Elaine and buy her puppies..but once you deal with her, it's easy to quickly see she a difficult person.


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## Cook4u

Georgia, I knew I was not alone in this complaint. Thank you. There was another BBB complaint, as well. We got Clyde, our puppy, from D's Golden Delights in Conawingo MD. This is our second time using her, and we were treated professionally. My emails and calls were answered promptly and Clyde is awesome!

Sorry you had this experience. I should have been alerted when Elaine told me they were primarily "CSA choppers". Happy to be rid of that chaos!


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## Cook4u

Oops....I meant "cash croppers." Maybe she should stick to that and stop the madness.


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## SheetsSM

Cook4u said:


> Georgia, I knew I was not alone in this complaint. Thank you. There was another BBB complaint, as well. We got Clyde, our puppy, from D's Golden Delights in Conawingo MD. This is our second time using her, and we were treated professionally. My emails and calls were answered promptly and Clyde is awesome!
> 
> Sorry you had this experience. I should have been alerted when Elaine told me they were primarily "CSA choppers". Happy to be rid of that chaos!


Is D's now doing core clearances as recommended by the GRCA. I realize you already have your pup, but thought you should be aware of this thread: http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...458-you-wont-believe-we-still-shocked-10.html


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## Cook4u

Thanks to,you. I did read the post. Clyde is our second pup from D's Golden Delights. friends have had many dogs from her with zero issues. I am grateful for my healthy pup.


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## annef

I can assure you that no-one reputable would charge 25000 dollars for a UK bred puppy! Annef


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## pokerwidowmn

My 1 year old I got from her Has OFC Elbow Dysplasia. She took my call once and said she didn't believe me and to send all records. I did and now she is ignoring my calls and emails. She plans on still breeding his brother from the same litter. NOT A GOOD BREEDER. She takes $2000 cash each and has 30+ puppies a year.


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## GeorgiaJones

Poker widow...are you talking about MN English??


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## pokerwidowmn

Yes I am. Elaine was horrible. I wish I would have seen this posting before I got my pup. Every complaint is exactly true. She met me at a best buy to give me puppy and ran with that $2000 cash. She finally responded to my text that Riley has elbow dysplasia and she yelled at me and said it couldn't be true. She told me she still plans on breeding his litter mate brother next year. I took the time to send her all thewanted me to send all the medical records and now she won't respond. She's a fraud


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## Cook4u

To the breeders on this site...I ask this. Would any Golden association be able to do anything to shut this business down given all this information? I just found a third BBB complaint which she has "settled". What other options are out there? Such a shame - she makes lots of money and gets away with it, producing unwell pups.


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## Swampcollie

Cook4u said:


> To the breeders on this site...I ask this. Would any Golden association be able to do anything to shut this business down given all this information? I just found a third BBB complaint which she has "settled". What other options are out there? Such a shame - she makes lots of money and gets away with it, producing unwell pups.


Not really. 

All the GRCA and AKC can do is continue trying to educate the public so they don't fall prey to such schemes.


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## djamarin

Hi
I'm new to this site but have very long story to post about my experience with MNEnglish Goldens.


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## djamarin

Cook4u said:


> To the breeders on this site...I ask this. Would any Golden association be able to do anything to shut this business down given all this information? I just found a third BBB complaint which she has "settled". What other options are out there? Such a shame - she makes lots of money and gets away with it, producing unwell pups.


I will provide a very through and extremely detailed post about my experience with that wonderful person. I only can wish I would have found this site prior to my purchase. My boy is wonderful but to receive "totally" untrained 2 year old male and paying a fortune is unacceptable. I am waiting to get my AKC paperwork next week, I won't hold my breath. After I do or attempt to I will provide my experience to all. It' won't be pretty


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## SunnynSey

All these experiences sound awful, I am so glad that these pups found good homes though. I know in CA there is a puppy lemon law, I dont know if this would help in your case depending on your state but still worth looking in to. Remember that many of these byb count on their cheated buyers backing down and going away, that is how they stay in business because they have enough people who wont complain to the authorities. Chances are they are operating under the radar of animal control, not paying taxes on huge sums of money, and living a comfy life on the uterus's of their animals. I would consult a lawyer and gather evidence to be presented to the proper authorities who can shut them down.


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## Goldens17

Nairb said:


> Thanks for all of your responses. I don't have a color requirement, but ran across the website and was stricken by the beauty of the dogs. I was not aware of potential problems with these dogs or the breeders. For all I know, they may be legit, but after further research, and from the advice I've received here, my search continues. I can't believe how difficult it is to find a breeder that meets all of the requirements listed in some of the articles I've read.
> 
> If anyone can recommend a good breeder in my area, I would appreciate it....Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska, etc. I live in Minnesota but am willing to travel a bit if necessary.


Hi, I actually have bought from this breeder, Elaine, and she is wonderful. I went out to their place and you could see how wonderfully they take care of their dogs. She is a wonderful person who explains it all to you. You can tell that they take care of their puppies with love. I've had Sadie, my dog from Elaine, for two years and I've had no problems with her or the breeder. Sadie is wonderful, she's helped me through a lot of tough times and I'm grateful to have her. I am planning on buying another puppy from Elaine, because Sadie is so wonderful. I wouldn't listen to the people that haven't bought from her to make your choice on what breeder to buy from. Actually take advise from people who have actually bought from her. So please reconsider her, cuz she's the best breeder I've found around this area.


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## ArchersMom

This breeder is producing unhealthy puppies, making a living off of the back of her pets. Even if one person gets lucky and doesn't have any problems with their dog, this is not a reputable breeder. Any one here with knowledge of breeding or the importance of clearances can verify that.


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## Dancer

Goldens17 said:


> Hi, I actually have bought from this breeder, Elaine, and she is wonderful. I went out to their place and you could see how wonderfully they take care of their dogs. She is a wonderful person who explains it all to you. You can tell that they take care of their puppies with love. I've had Sadie, my dog from Elaine, for two years and I've had no problems with her or the breeder. Sadie is wonderful, she's helped me through a lot of tough times and I'm grateful to have her. I am planning on buying another puppy from Elaine, because Sadie is so wonderful. I wouldn't listen to the people that haven't bought from her to make your choice on what breeder to buy from. Actually take advise from people who have actually bought from her. So please reconsider her, cuz she's the best breeder I've found around this area.



Lol, suuuure...interestingly enough this is a 'new member's' first post....I just bet your experience was amazing .... But bottom line: clearances and titles must be verifiable OR they don't exist. And if your breeder can't verify them, they are not a reputable breeder.


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## Octavius

I have not posted here in a while, but I just wanted to thank everyone for the information on this breeder. I was about to purchase a 2 year old dog from her, but will not do so now that I have seen the information posted here. 

On that note, does anyone have any advice on the best place to purchase a 1+ year old golden? Do breeders ever/often keep dogs past the puppy stage?


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## Swampcollie

> *On that note, does anyone have any advice on the best place to purchase a 1+ year old golden? Do breeders ever/often keep dogs past the puppy stage?*



Some do. Check with Leslie B on this forum and see if you can get her to part with one.


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## djamarin

Check with Kyon outside of Toronto. Excellent breeder


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## Carmel

I'm getting a puppy in a week from Beth Johnson of Summit. She is over in Green Bay WI. I'm not sure if all the puppies are spoken for, but I know she sometimes has older puppy's and young dogs to re-home.


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## pokerwidowmn

The new person with comment sounds like she actually is the breeder posing as a past puppy buyer. I can see through it all. She even knows the owners dogs names other than her pups parents. Interesting


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## pokerwidowmn

Update on my elbow dysplasia pup. Surgeon contacted me few days ago saying she talked to Elaine and after hours of conversation she agreed that my pup has genetic elbow dysplasia and she would send me a check if I remove the copies of all his medical records from facebook. I did so we will see if my refund arrives soon. Can't wait to be done with the back and forth. He is beautiful but bad elbows, shoulders, rear knees, and crooked teeth that need to be "reduced" so they don't dig into gums are not worth it to me


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## ArchersMom

pokerwidowmn said:


> Update on my elbow dysplasia pup. Surgeon contacted me few days ago saying she talked to Elaine and after hours of conversation she agreed that my pup has genetic elbow dysplasia and she would send me a check if I remove the copies of all his medical records from facebook. I did so we will see if my refund arrives soon. Can't wait to be done with the back and forth. He is beautiful but bad elbows, shoulders, rear knees, and crooked teeth that need to be "reduced" so they don't dig into gums are not worth it to me


I'm sorry your dog is having so many issues. Unfortunately this breeder is obviously not trying to make healthier dogs and is only trying to line their pockets. It's great that she's going to return the purchase price to help you pay with some of the upcoming veterinary bills. Now if only she'd stop producing unhealthy dogs altogether.


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## GoldenLover70

I am new to this site and I am so happy I found it. I searched the internet and found mngolden and it seemed like a great spot with all the puppies and happy children so I thought she is a breeder with family orientation, which is exactly what I am looking for. Wow, I now will stay as far away from this breeder as possible. She appears to come across as a genuine person but appears she only is in it for the money and cares nothing about the quality or personalities of her pups. She comes across as a wonderful backyard type breeder but appears to be a puppy mill breeder. Shame on her and I wish she could be shut down.


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## GoldenLover70

I am a new member and am so glad I found this site before I contacted her. I was on the internet looking for a English Cream Golden and stumbled upon mnenglishgolden. The site came across as a wonder breeder that cares so much about having her adults be members of her family and that she didn't do many litters. Well after reading all that people have said she is not what she states she is. I get now that she produces unhealthy puppies and is a puppy mill breeder. I would never buy from her.How terrible and shame on her. I wish she could be shut down.


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## pokerwidowmn

No refund yet. She was mad that I simply posted his bills on facebook ur i agreed to remove them. Plan on adding to my bill page with more facts if checks not in the mailbox when I get home from spring break. This has been a nightmare. He is so sweet but I constantl hear from others that we meet at dog park and out walking " what's wrong with him"? And why is he so slow?. He is like an old guy and people are shocked to hear he is 16 months old


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## Nairb

Happy to see 31K views on this thread that I started 3 yrs ago. Even happier that I didn't get my dog from that breeder. Furthermore, I wouldn't have found my awesome dog if it had not been for this forum!


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## Claudia M

Nairb said:


> Happy to see 31K views on this thread that I started 3 yrs ago. Even happier that I didn't get my dog from that breeder. Furthermore, I wouldn't have found my awesome dog if it had not been for this forum!


welcome back!


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## Nairb

I just heard some more things second hand (well, from my wife, so it's reliable) about a dog that came from this breeder, that is now 3 yrs old. I won't get in to the specifics, but not good. Also, papers were never sent....I wonder if the litter was even registered. Stay away.


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## Cook4u

Just looked again at the BBB MN site. So far, four complaints settled against MN English Golden. Stay far, far away. I am grateful for this forum!


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## G-bear

Well to make a long story short (which I will gladly share in greater detail if asked to) we have a puppy from this breeder. I am having a great deal of trouble obtaining the AKC registration papers from Elaine. I am curious if those who have previously posted were ever able to get the papers? While I love Bailey to the moon and back I would not have paid the the amount paid for him if I had known I would not get his AKC registration papers. As for recommending Mnenglishgoldens? No. I wouldn't do that. There are too many reputable breeders out there to get involved with this breeder. Will keep you posted as to if I ever get registration papers and what further action we opt to take in the matter.


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## Prism Goldens

IF you know the parents' registered names you can look up their reg #'s on AKC/store... then you can call AKC and ask if the litter was registered. If it was, you can make a complaint. It probably won't get you anywhere, but sometimes on Mondays you can get an interested well rested AKC employee who will make a case for you... if it wasn't registered, you can make a complaint if she sold the litter as an AKC registered litter.


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## G-bear

Thank you prism goldens. I will make that call Monday (when people are well rested!). I appreciate the tip.


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## BodieK

Hi G-bear, I'm wondering which litter you your puppy is from? We got ours on June 7th and he is having teeth issues, which is genetic, and may have to have some bottom ones pulled. Have you had any health issues? --- when picking out our puppy I had a bad gut feeling.. From her her trying to push us towards another puppy after we had already chosen to his microchip falling out on the way home.


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## G-bear

Hi Bodiek. Got Bailey April 1, 2015. So far no health issues according to vet but he is a very small dog and the vet says it is likely he won't weigh much over 50 lbs when full grown. My previous golden was a very petite girl so his size doesn't really matter to me. Am still waiting on the AKC registration papers. Latest was a text today telling me she might send them to me in 6 weeks because she is "so busy" sending out other people's papers. I wouldn't think a reputable breeder would be breeding so many dogs that it would take six weeks to put the registration papers (which she claims she has) in an envelope and mail them. But, as she told me yesterday, I am "an idiot". Any other problems with your boy? I am really sorry to hear about his teeth. Where did you pick up your puppy? Her house or (her favorite place) the parking lot at a local retailer? Yup. Lots of red flags. Hindsight is always 20/20.


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## GoldenLover70

This breeder should be out of business. With all the dings on her via the better business bureau report and Golden Forums, we need to send all this information to AKC and hopefully them may reject her going forward. Also, Animal Control in Minnesota should pay a visit to her "operations"

Why would any reputable breeder not provide certifications on his or her dogs unless she is trying to hide something. This breeder appears to be hiding a lot from all buyers so maybe her dogs might be embred? Hopefully not but unless she provides accurate certificated on each dog to buyers one has to wonder


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## Nairb

I'm surprised she still able to sell her pups, since this thread comes up near the top of a Google search of Minnesota English Goldens. It's been that way for over 3 years.


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## GoldenLover70

I agree Narib. Hopefully the word is getting around and people are staying away for good. We can only hope. Thanks for starting this thread to enlighten us to this horrible breeder. I can only assume, if she is still in business, that there will be more to come from frustrated people that have dealt with here.


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## G-bear

To those, who after reading all of the negative posts regarding MN English Goldens, are still contemplating purchasing a dog from this breeder I would strongly encourage you to read the Better Business Bureau of MN and ND file on this breeder. Read the complaints in full, including the responses. It will tell you everything you need to know. I wish I had read them, or known of them, before purchasing from this breeder. Hindsight is always 20/20. It should also be noted that this breeder monitors this thread and I have received a phone call from her threatening me with legal action "for slander and defamation" for posting here. Interesting since the legal definition of both slander and defamation involve lies about an individual and everything I have posted is true. Since I STILL have not received AKC registration papers and have sent numerous requsts for them, I would like for her to attempt to drag me into court for telling the truth about her. Read the complaints. I wish I had.


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## G-bear

What a coincidence! After posting the above I received the AKC registration papers in the mail today.


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## skgpuppy

HI - I'd love to hear more about your experience with D's Golden Delights. We are considering going with them.


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## SheetsSM

skgpuppy said:


> HI - I'd love to hear more about your experience with D's Golden Delights. We are considering going with them.


Do you have the registered names of the pair you're potentially seeking a puppy from or their registration #s? I would be very concerned about the completion of legitimate clearances on the sire/dam as well as what the clearances look like throughout the pedigree.


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## skgpuppy

Yes, and they both have good clearances. But the OFFA site does not list clearances for the sire or dam on either side. Other offspring yes and they appear OK.


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## ArchersMom

Offa is the only way a dog can have an elbow clearance in the US. So if it's not listed on their website, it's impossible to have complete clearances. Unless the breeder imported an adult dog from another country.


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## Tahnee GR

never mind.


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## GoldensGirl

If what you want is heavily feathered very light Golden with a blocky head - the look sometimes described as English Creme - there are some highly regarded breeders who produce them, at least now and then. However, those highly regarded breeders don't use the English Creme label and they do breed for health and longevity. Shor' Line and Lycinan come to mind and I'm sure there are others.


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## SheetsSM

skgpuppy said:


> Yes, and they both have good clearances. But the OFFA site does not list clearances for the sire or dam on either side. Other offspring yes and they appear OK.


What organization are the clearances through? OFA or BVA? If BVA, how old were the dogs when the clearances were accomplished? Can you provide the k9data links for the sire/dam. I'm perplexed about the clearances not showing up at offa.org--wondering if these were prelims which aren't clearances. Also, are the eye exams current (need to be accomplished every year).


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## Prism Goldens

skgpuppy said:


> HI - I'd love to hear more about your experience with D's Golden Delights. We are considering going with them.


The website gives no indicators of what girls they are breeding- but their boys listed are not up to date on eye exams- are actually very (by years) out of date.
If you will post the dam of the litter's name someone can look them up. But if all the info you have is what is posted on their site, you can do much better.


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## nolefan

skgpuppy said:


> HI - I'd love to hear more about your experience with D's Golden Delights. We are considering going with them.


After everything available on this thread and at the BBB site you are really considering purchasing a puppy from them?


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## djamarin

After a long couple of years dealing with this breeder I am finally finished. My 3 year old male I purchased from her a year ago has some issues but is very much loved. In an attempt to get my AKC registration, I had to sue her. Not a pleasurable experience that I was put through. I would never recommend this breeder and am glad so many others on this site have had great comments and experiences to share with others. I just wish I would have found this site years ago.


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## G-bear

I assume you are speaking of MN English Goldens based on your previous posts. I am extremely sorry that you had the negative experience with Elaine that you have had. I also have a dog purchased from her and, if you have read the previous posts, you will notice I also posted regarding the issues obtaining AKC papers from her. I received multiple texts and calls from her threatening me with legal action after I posted on GRF regarding her practices. I made a point of saving all of the text messages and the voicemails she left and I recorded and saved every single call I had with her. I would recommend anyone who wishes to deal with this individual (even after reading all of the complaints posted here and also with the BBB) record and save all communication with the "breeder" since this individual monitors this thread and has frequently threatened those who complain with legal action. When dealing with persons of questionable integrity I think it always best to make sure one covers all of the bases. While I dearly love my dog, Bailey, I would NEVER recommend this breeder and I would (again) encourage anyone contemplating a dog from her read the complaints about her on GRF as well as everything filed with the BBB of MN and ND.


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## G-bear

The following is a website for the State of MN where one can look up civil judgements (among other things) against an individual or business: 
pa.courts.state.mn.us/default.aspx


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## djamarin

Hi G-Bear

Yes, I completely agree with your assessment of the Bates clan. I saved all correspondence and agree that she monitors this site and this thread inparticular. She is virtually impossible to deal with and has every excuse to justify her actions. My boy is great but I would NEVER provide a positive referral to anyone buying a friend. Purchasing a companion should be a wonderful and fun experience. She takes the joy completely out of the entire process.


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## G-bear

I have to agree with you. Especially the statement about it should be a wonderful and fun experience and that she takes the joy out of it. I have seen other posts here stating pretty much the same thing about this individual. On this site there are many reputable breeders (that I truly wish I had found prior to my experience with MN English Goldens). I have learned and seen over the past several months how a responsible and reputable breeder conducts his or her business. MN English Goldens is not in the same league as they are. It saddens me that with reputable breeders, who work their fannies off to breed healthy, good tempered dogs with proper clearances, someone who behaves as those associated with MN English Goldens are even allowed to breed dogs in MN. All I can do is hope that others read these posts, check out reports from the BBB and contact GRCA before getting a golden. I wish I had. And while I love Bailey to no end I could have definitely done without the drama of Elaine. And to those members on GRF who are responsible, reputable breeders I thank you all for your hard work from the bottom of my heart. Elaine? Not so much


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## Cook4u

I am thankful every day for this forum and our healthy Golden. THank you for starting this thread which allowed us to share the good, the bad and ugly about this awful breeder. My hope is that Google will put her out of business. I appreciate all of you so very much. Thank you!


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## 2pups

DO NOT GO TO THIS BREEDER
The owner Susanne is awful..We got our beautiful buy Beau from her a year ago and he has already had double elbow dysphasia surgery. When we talked to her about it she said we could EXCHANGE him REALLY????? She wasn't willing to help with ANY of the costs at all. We are up into the $10,000.00 range already BEWARE


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## G-bear

2pups, which breeder are you referring to? This thread has info regarding several different breeders.


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## ArchersMom

2pups said:


> DO NOT GO TO THIS BREEDER
> The owner Susanne is awful..We got our beautiful buy Beau from her a year ago and he has already had double elbow dysphasia surgery. When we talked to her about it she said we could EXCHANGE him REALLY????? She wasn't willing to help with ANY of the costs at all. We are up into the $10,000.00 range already BEWARE


I'm sorry about your experience. And thank you for taking care of Beau. That is exactly why health guarantees are useless if they require return or exchange of the dog. I'm sure his breeder would not have bothered to pay for his surgeries or care for him like family. Which breeder are you referring to? Multiple "English Creme" breeders have been discussed in this thread. The more the name is mention the more likely other people are to find it when googling the breeder too.


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## 2pups

Hearts of Golden is the breeder we went to.


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## djamarin

Hi 2pups

We were all talking about the breeder MN English Goldens based in Minnesota. The breeder's name is elaine bates.


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## Prism Goldens

2pups said:


> Hearts of Golden is the breeder we went to.


If you would like to start a new thread called 'Hearts of Golden' Minnesota (or wherever you are) in the 'choosing a breeder & puppy' forum, and put your own pup's info in there, it will likely get picked up by google, so that future 'customers' will be able to see the negative review. 
I'm sorry for your issues, hope you will post them.


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## Prism Goldens

And there are several on google named Heart of Gold, HeartOGold, etc- so put your state in it, and also a link to the correct site if you want to post your experience.


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## Golden Joey

Just a big thank you to this forum and everyone who has given feedback on this MN breeder.


I had a deposit on a puppy and was tentatively going to pick up this week. Lots of red flags with communication, with two litters being born close together, with her inability to answer questions re: size of litter, boy/girl ratio. Lots of changes to pick up day/time. I ignored all of these as my kids have been so excited for 8 weeks


The day before pick up - Elaine tells me I need to purchase close to $200 of dog food (80#) from her and if I didn't the puppy wouldn't be covered under a warranty. I couldn't just buy it, but had to have it documented through her (her son is listed as the rep on their website link). When I asked re: why this was important, she started going off on the need to "trust" your breeder. I get the need to use a high quality dog food, to wean to a new food but the pressure to purchase, unreal. 


In any case, this prompted me to look closer and I found this forum and the BBB complaints. I am cancelling my puppy. My kids are heart broken. I should have looked for more reviews before - I had a personal referral that I should not have blindly trusted. We are starting over. I am going to try to get my deposit back. The contract said nothing about food purchase for a warranty. Argh. 


Thanks for the broad help in making a tough choice, but we feel better already.


----------



## kwhit

Golden Joey said:


> Just a big thank you to this forum and everyone who has given feedback on this MN breeder.
> 
> 
> I had a deposit on a puppy and was tentatively going to pick up this week. Lots of red flags with communication, with two litters being born close together, with her inability to answer questions re: size of litter, boy/girl ratio. Lots of changes to pick up day/time. I ignored all of these as my kids have been so excited for 8 weeks
> 
> 
> The day before pick up - Elaine tells me I need to purchase close to $200 of dog food (80#) from her and if I didn't the puppy wouldn't be covered under a warranty. I couldn't just buy it, but had to have it documented through her (her son is listed as the rep on their website link). When I asked re: why this was important, she started going off on the need to "trust" your breeder. I get the need to use a high quality dog food, to wean to a new food but the pressure to purchase, unreal.
> 
> 
> In any case, this prompted me to look closer and I found this forum and the BBB complaints. I am cancelling my puppy. My kids are heart broken. I should have looked for more reviews before - I had a personal referral that I should not have blindly trusted. We are starting over. I am going to try to get my deposit back. The contract said nothing about food purchase for a warranty. Argh.
> 
> 
> Thanks for the broad help in making a tough choice, but we feel better already.


Good for you for making the right choice. :appl:

If you'd tell us your location we might be able to give you some referrals to some reputable breeders in your area.


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## G-bear

I am so sorry that this has happened to you. As you probably noticed I have had personal experience with this breeder. 
I was not aware that she had began to demand that people now purchase food from her prior to getting a puppy. That is a new one from her. As I recall there was nothing in her contract that stated one needed to purchase 80 lbs of food (which seems like a lot of food for a puppy which may or may not be able to eat the food in question) from her prior to picking up a puppy but given the fact that she receives a commission on the food she sells I am not surprised. Frankly nothing I hear about this breeder surprises me. 
Unfortunately, based on things I have heard and personally experienced , I suspect you will have trouble getting your deposit back from this breeder. That does not mean you should not try. In fact I would encourage you to do so and, if necessary, hire an attorney. Her previous behavior with regards to any problems with her litters is to threaten people with legal action. I, personally, was threatened by her with legal action for posting on this forum.. I strongly suggest that you tape all future conversations with Elaine, save ALL text messages and email and file a complaint with BBB should the need arise.
As Kwhit has said there are many on this forum who can offer recommendations on breeders. If you are in the MN/WI area you can search breeders in Minnesota or Wisconsin on this forum and I believe you will find a lengthy list of breeders put together by other members on this forum.
Again, I am very sorry this happened to you. Hindsight is always 20/20 I have found.
The last thing I would like to add to this is that a reputable breeder will NOT have many multiple litters on the ground at the same time. I have learned from this forum (hindsight being 20/20) that a reputable breeder puts an incredible amount of effort and expense into a litter of puppies. They do not treat their puppies as a commodity and their dedication to the health and the breed standard shows in their litters, in their choice of sire and the choice of their dams. They are actively involved in trying to improve the health of the breed by obtaining proper clearances prior to breeding a litter. In short, they put an incredible amount of work into a litter of puppies and, as a result, are not producing the number of litters per year that I think you will find someone such as Elaine producing. A reputable breeder does not treat a litter of puppies as a cash crop.
Please continue to remain a part of this forum. You will find a wealth of information here from experienced owners as well as breeders who are committed to their goldens. Best wishes going forward.


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## nolefan

Golden Joey said:


> Just a big thank you to this forum and everyone who has given feedback on this MN breeder.
> 
> 
> I had a deposit on a puppy and was tentatively going to pick up this week. Lots of red flags with communication, with two litters being born close together, with her inability to answer questions re: size of litter, boy/girl ratio. Lots of changes to pick up day/time. I ignored all of these as my kids have been so excited for 8 weeks
> 
> 
> The day before pick up - Elaine tells me I need to purchase close to $200 of dog food (80#) from her and if I didn't the puppy wouldn't be covered under a warranty. I couldn't just buy it, but had to have it documented through her (her son is listed as the rep on their website link). When I asked re: why this was important, she started going off on the need to "trust" your breeder. I get the need to use a high quality dog food, to wean to a new food but the pressure to purchase, unreal.
> 
> 
> In any case, this prompted me to look closer and I found this forum and the BBB complaints. I am cancelling my puppy. My kids are heart broken. I should have looked for more reviews before - I had a personal referral that I should not have blindly trusted. We are starting over. I am going to try to get my deposit back. The contract said nothing about food purchase for a warranty. Argh.
> 
> 
> Thanks for the broad help in making a tough choice, but we feel better already.


Thank you for your feedback. Knowing that the information here has saved even one family from heartache or being seriously taken advantage of is all the thanks this group needs. I hope you will stick around here and take advantage of all the information on how to find reputable hobby breeders who are not selling dogs like livestock to make money. It is possible to find a breeder who sells carefully bred and lovingly raised puppies with generations of health clearances behind them and who isn't trying to make a buck off of you. If you have the registered name of the parents of a litter you're interested in, we can help you verify and look at clearances. Best of luck with your new research project


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## Octavius

Just out of curiosity, is this the breeder and puppy you cancelled?

https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/pet/6147460077.html


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## Golden Joey

Octavius said:


> Just out of curiosity, is this the breeder and puppy you cancelled?
> 
> https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/pet/6147460077.html


I couldn't bring up the link so I don't know. She does advertise on puppy find and puppy spot.


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## Audog

I have been a reading this, and other threads on various breeders, and just can't get how many unscrupulous and, frankly, deceitful people are in the business of using great dogs as livestock. It makes me sick that this practice goes on, especially when dealing with a sentient animal, put on earth to offer love and companionship. I have no experience with this breeder, the web site looks very good, but based on what I have read, run away fast would be the conclusion I draw.


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## kwhit

Audog said:


> I have been a reading this, and other threads on various breeders, and just can't get how many unscrupulous and, frankly, deceitful people are in the business of using great dogs as livestock. It makes me sick that this practice goes on, especially when dealing with a sentient animal, put on earth to offer love and companionship. I have no experience with this breeder, the web site looks very good, but based on what I have read, run away fast would be the conclusion I draw.


Unfortunately, it's all about the $$$.


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## Golden Joey

This is off topic as we have moved on - I've been really looking into breeders this week. 


We are looking at waiting and considering a wait list with SnowShoe Goldens (Picabo and Presley) for Nov/Dec. I need to get their certifications, most of their dogs look to be good/normal with fair hips.


or..


Puppies available with Misty Maples (Joy and Titan)... clearances are normal with fair hips. Concern for cataract in titan as sire?? noted not inherited, but no current eye certification.


Just curious if anyone has experiences with these breeders? 


Thanks!


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## nolefan

Golden Joey said:


> This is off topic as we have moved on - I've been really looking into breeders this week.
> 
> 
> We are looking at waiting and considering a wait list with SnowShoe Goldens (Picabo and Presley) for Nov/Dec. I need to get their certifications, most of their dogs look to be good/normal with fair hips.
> 
> 
> or..
> 
> 
> Puppies available with Misty Maples (Joy and Titan)... clearances are normal with fair hips. Concern for cataract in titan as sire?? noted not inherited, but no current eye certification.
> 
> 
> Just curious if anyone has experiences with these breeders?
> 
> 
> Thanks!


You might want to start a new thread then, it would be easier to keep up with and for future searches.


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## Judith Silver Zucker

I left a deposit with Mn English Goldens, any advice


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## G-bear

I am sorry to hear this. If possible you could ask for your deposit back. If you do not get it back you can file a complaint with the BBB of MN/SD. I would strongly urge you to save ALL communications with this breeder (emails, text messages -- which she seems to prefer-- and, if possible, tape your conversations with her). You may, of course, continue to post here. This breeder monitors the postings regarding her on GRF. Good luck.


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## GeorgiaJones

Honestly, I know I have reviewed this breeder before(I'm not the breeder pretending to be a customer) and didn't have all positive things to say BUT, if you have left a deposit I would go with it. Although I don't really care for Elaine as a person, we absolutely love our golden. She is beautiful, sweet, smart, and excellent with children. I would not trader her for the world. I understand that dogs have health problems, and I don't think 100% of that is always a breeders fault. Heck, sometimes it's the owners fault and the breeder gets blamed. 
Our dog is amazing and she is healthy, and she came from Elaine. And I'll tell ya what...if something happened to our golden, not only would I be sick, I would still go back to Elaine despite the fact that I don't like her tactics that much.
In regard to communication, I did reach out and she got right back to me, so perhaps she has cleaned up her act. I think it might be time to stop criticizing her. She might not be super professional, but her dogs are amazing!!!
If you gave her the deposit, go with it. I don't think you will regret it once you are done dealing with her. And again, when I had issues, she was good to work with after the fact. Judith Zucker...feel free to personal message me with further questions.


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## G-bear

GeorgiaJones said:


> Honestly, I know I have reviewed this breeder before(I'm not the breeder pretending to be a customer) and didn't have all positive things to say BUT, if you have left a deposit I would go with it. Although I don't really care for Elaine as a person, we absolutely love our golden. She is beautiful, sweet, smart, and excellent with children. I would not trader her for the world. I understand that dogs have health problems, and I don't think 100% of that is always a breeders fault. Heck, sometimes it's the owners fault and the breeder gets blamed.
> Our dog is amazing and she is healthy, and she came from Elaine. And I'll tell ya what...if something happened to our golden, not only would I be sick, I would still go back to Elaine despite the fact that I don't like her tactics that much.
> In regard to communication, I did reach out and she got right back to me, so perhaps she has cleaned up her act. I think it might be time to stop criticizing her. She might not be super professional, but her dogs are amazing!!!
> If you gave her the deposit, go with it. I don't think you will regret it once you are done dealing with her. And again, when I had issues, she was good to work with after the fact. Judith Zucker...feel free to personal message me with further questions.


To each his or her own. 
I also have had dog from this "breeder". He was purchased before I joined this forum and learned a great deal about what a reputable breeder does and what the difference between a reputable breeder and a BYB is. My dog came with no health clearances. Do the sire and dam of your dog have hip, elbow, heart and eye clearances? Did you check to make sure? My dog came with a "health guarantee" which requires that I return my dog to Elaine should there by any health problems with him. A contract which requires that you return the dog should it develop something such as hip dysplasia after you have bonded with the dog and it has become a member of your family is a worthless piece of paper. Would you be returning your dog if it developed health problems? Because the way the contract is I have is written that is your only recourse. Do you know for certain the the five generation pedigree on your dog is actually your dog's pedigree? Have you had DNA testing done on your dog to verify this? 
The point of this thread, which was begun many years ago and has continued for 17 pages, is that the breeder in question does not do clearances on her dogs. There have been several posters who have had health problems with their dogs. The point is that these dogs, without their clearances, should NOT be selling for the prices that Elaine is selling them for. I recently saw several of her puppies posted for between $2,000.00 and $2,500.00. This price for a dog with no clearances and titles which can basically be bought. This woman doesn't compete with her dogs in ANY venue. She doesn't do clearances. For what she is charging I can purchase a puppy from a reputable breeder which has the health clearances and REAL titles on the sire and dam. 
I am glad that you love your dog. All dogs should be loved and cherished. There are a lot of people on this forum who know my boy Bailey, They know he is very loved and is given better care than many people are. I have rescued many dogs over the last 40 years and I consider my dog, who was purchased from Elaine and MN English Goldens, to be on par with my rescues (who also came with no clearances). Bailey, however, is a much more expensive rescue....


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## djamarin

Hi All. I would suggest that everyone and anyone stay as far away from MN Goldens and Elaine. There are so many reputable breeders you can find through this site and I don't consider Elaine one of them. I purchased a very expensive young male, whom I have had to work extensively with. He is my love boy along with my other Golden. She was the most difficult person to deal with prior to and after receiving my boy. Everything is a difficult task for her and she makes one feel as if she is doing you a favor purchasing one of her dogs. She takes the enjoyment of bringing home a loving little creature. This breeder checks this site and responds under a different individual all the time. Again, I would tell anyone to find another breeder in lieu of MN Goldens.


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## G-bear

I have had several people inquire about how to verify the pedigree of your dog. I have recently ordered a DNA test kit from the AKC. The test kit, which is available for order online for $45.00 on the AKC website, will verify your dog or puppy's pedigree. A swab (which is provided in the kit) is done of the inside of the dog's mouth. This swab is returned for analysis. I have been told that the results will be sent to 4 to 6 weeks after it has been received. For those who question whether or not the pedigree provided by the breeder is accurate this test will confirm or deny what you have been told depending on what the results are. There are other DNA test kits available online for purchase. If you have concerns this is an option which is available to you.


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## Golden Joey

An update, as an fyi... is that I sent a certified letter with return receipt requested as was recommended here and what others with the better business bureau had done. I detailed and described all my concerns. She did respond, stating she felt it was all a misunderstanding and she did send a check for my $500 deposit back. 


We did find a great breeder. Ended up going with an American Golden instead and he is wonderful at 12 weeks. Still happy with my choice. 


Good luck with whatever you decide.


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## G-bear

I am glad to hear this. Congrats on your new family member


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## djamarin

Persistence can pay off. Congratulations on your new family member


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## Judith Silver Zucker

I have cancelled and Elaine has called wanting us to roll the deposit to the next litter.
We have decided not to do this, she said the deposit is non refundable.


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## Prism Goldens

JMO- but if puppies are only a week or two old, the deposit should be refundable. It's not like she has all that much time invested in you at this point. I'm not sure on the legality in your area of retaining deposits, some states it is illegal to keep a deposit.


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## Ljilly28

I don't even take deposits until week four, because I want to make sure all the pups are thriving first. I also don't ant to lock in anyone who has cold feet for any reason about adding a baby dog. It is a huge responsibility, and I want each of my pups to go into a home that is very sure they want her or him. The idea of forcing someone to stay with a puppy about which they are ambivalent or not wanting anymore isn't good for anyone. 

The poster above did get his deposit back by sending a certified letter, so maybe you can too?

I had the experience that I was on the list for a puppy at Harborview Goldens, but I had my appendix out at the last minute. The breeder was so kind and understanding, and a year later I brought home one of my favorite dogs I have ever owned from her Lushie Plushie. The kind of class and care she showed when I let her down, resulted in a really good thing. No breeder should be punishing people for to getting a puppy.


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## G-bear

Roll it over to the next litter?!? That is ridiculous!!! 
Since we all know that Elaine monitors this thread I am going to say this here and now, not for your benefit Judy, but for Elaine's since she clearly doesn't comprehend or want to comprehend the issues with her breedings. The reservations aren't being cancelled because of ONE mistake that can be "fixed" with the next breeding (in a week or two) but, rather, because of:
1) the manner in which Elaine breeds (NO clearances) 
2) An extremely deceptive website for MN English Goldens. Reputable breeders list the current breedings with the dogs clearances/titles in an easy to understand manner. They list AKC names of the dogs they own, not just call names, and often a link for K9 data is in place to help buyers verify the clearances. 
3) The attitude that this breeder exhibits which indicates that she knows it all and no one in the world (including REPUTABLE breeders) know anything. It has been my experience in life that there is much to be learned if one is open to learning. Regardless of how much one thinks they know on any given subject.
4) The fact that a REPUTABLE breeder does not produce anywhere near the number of litters this breeder is breeding each year. A reputable breeder sees their litters as family not a cash crop.
It's NOT a problem with one litter which can be fixed by another breeding! The problem is the entire operation. And Elaine, since we all know you read this, my suggestion is that first off you start by getting REAL clearances on the dogs you are breeding and start participation in competition with at least some of your dogs. It would go a long way towards beginning the process of becoming a reputable breeder instead of someone who over-charges for dogs with no clearances or real titles (the sort that are earned). It is NOT about one litter it is about ALL of them!


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## djamarin

*Reply*



G-bear said:


> Roll it over to the next litter?!? That is ridiculous!!!
> Since we all know that Elaine monitors this thread I am going to say this here and now, not for your benefit Judy, but for Elaine's since she clearly doesn't comprehend or want to comprehend the issues with her breedings. The reservations aren't being cancelled because of ONE mistake that can be "fixed" with the next breeding (in a week or two) but, rather, because of:
> 1) the manner in which Elaine breeds (NO clearances)
> 2) An extremely deceptive website for MN English Goldens. Reputable breeders list the current breedings with the dogs clearances/titles in an easy to understand manner. They list AKC names of the dogs they own, not just call names, and often a link for K9 data is in place to help buyers verify the clearances.
> 3) The attitude that this breeder exhibits which indicates that she knows it all and no one in the world (including REPUTABLE breeders) know anything. It has been my experience in life that there is much to be learned if one is open to learning. Regardless of how much one thinks they know on any given subject.
> 4) The fact that a REPUTABLE breeder does not produce anywhere near the number of litters this breeder is breeding each year. A reputable breeder sees their litters as family not a cash crop.
> It's NOT a problem with one litter which can be fixed by another breeding! The problem is the entire operation. And Elaine, since we all know you read this, my suggestion is that first off you start by getting REAL clearances on the dogs you are breeding and start participation in competition with at least some of your dogs. It would go a long way towards beginning the process of becoming a reputable breeder instead of someone who over-charges for dogs with no clearances or real titles (the sort that are earned). It is NOT about one litter it is about ALL of them!


You are extremely accurate on all accounts. Thank you so much for saying it exactly as it is. Elaine should be banned from breeding though because she will never change her practices.


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## Judith Silver Zucker

I offered to let Elaine keep half of the deposit to compensate her for her time, I have not heard from her. I would not recommend using her. I should have used better judgement. I was anxious to get a puppy and jumped into a bad situation.
There were many things about the transaction that disturbed me. We have since found a new breeder and are very happy with how things are being done. 
Thanks to this group I was given good advice and started checking things out, very disturbing things about her breeding practices surfaced.


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## G-bear

I am very happy that you have found another breeder and are moving on after your very negative experience with Elaine. I wish you the absolute best. 
I, probably more than anyone else here, understand your desire to move on and put the experience with Elaine behind you. With that having been said I sincerely hope that you will at least leave a truthful review of your dealings with this woman and her organization on the BBB website for others to see or file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau. It is about getting the word out about this breeder.
I am the first to admit it is not enough and I am deeply saddened every single time I read that she has, once again, taken advantage of yet another puppy buyer such as yourself. Please let others know of your experiences with Elaine. It may help someone else.


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## G-bear

I am posting this here for those who may be considering the purchase of a dog or puppy from MN English goldens even after reading the previous posts in this thread. I have a dog purchased from this breeder as a gift for me. Many on this forum are familiar with Bailey. Bailey turned 3 years old on January 15, 2018. He has been diagnosed with epilepsy. For those STILL considering purchasing a dog or puppy from this breeder please know that Bailey is a much loved member of our family and, as a result, we will do whatever is necessary to give him a long and, hopefully, good life. That having been said potential buyers should be aware that an accurate diagnosis of epilepsy is not a cheap process. You could potentially be looking at several thousand dollars just to obtain a diagnosis. That doesn't include the cost of medications or surgery that may be necessary. So, please, if you are still considering a puppy or dog from this breeder re-think your options. There are MANY very reputable breeders in Minnesota and Wisconsin. Many of whom are members of this forum. Find a breeder who puts the health of the dogs bred as a priority not the money obtained by the sale. Find a breeder who does ALL of the clearances and do not believe it when told that "clearances don't matter". Find a breeder who breeds to maintain the breed standard and promote the breed. Not line their own pocket. I love Bailey dearly and he will be well cared for. Those here who know me know this is my priority but also please know that I am posting this because I truly believe that if you are looking at a puppy or dog from this breeder you can do far better. Ask on GRF for recommendations for reputable breeders. Get a dog from one of them. I gain nothing by encouraging you to do this and I merely hope to help you avoid the worry and the heartbreak I and my family are now experiencing.


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## jennretz

G-bear said:


> I am posting this here for those who may be considering the purchase of a dog or puppy from MN English goldens even after reading the previous posts in this thread. I have a dog purchased from this breeder as a gift for me. Many on this forum are familiar with Bailey. Bailey turned 3 years old on January 15, 2018. He has been diagnosed with epilepsy. For those STILL considering purchasing a dog or puppy from this breeder please know that Bailey is a much loved member of our family and, as a result, we will do whatever is necessary to give him a long and, hopefully, good life. That having been said potential buyers should be aware that an accurate diagnosis of epilepsy is not a cheap process. You could potentially be looking at several thousand dollars just to obtain a diagnosis. That doesn't include the cost of medications or surgery that may be necessary. So, please, if you are still considering a puppy or dog from this breeder re-think your options. There are MANY very reputable breeders in Minnesota and Wisconsin. Many of whom are members of this forum. Find a breeder who puts the health of the dogs bred as a priority not the money obtained by the sale. Find a breeder who does ALL of the clearances and do not believe it when told that "clearances don't matter". Find a breeder who breeds to maintain the breed standard and promote the breed. Not line their own pocket. I love Bailey dearly and he will be well cared for. Those here who know me know this is my priority but also please know that I am posting this because I truly believe that if you are looking at a puppy or dog from this breeder you can do far better. Ask on GRF for recommendations for reputable breeders. Get a dog from one of them. I gain nothing by encouraging you to do this and I merely hope to help you avoid the worry and the heartbreak I and my family are now experiencing.


Sandra - so very sorry for what you are going through with Bailey. I know how much you love him and how worried you are. I hope you are able to find a treatment plan for Bailey that allows him to live a healthy and long life with your family. I know he is considered a family member and you will do what it takes to give him the best life. It's just unfair that you have to. Thinking of you guys.


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## ArchersMom

I'm so sorry you and Bailey are going through this. I know how terrifying and helpless it can make you feel watching a dog experience a seizure  Bailey is lucky to be in such a caring home.


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## G-bear

Thank you Jen and Katie. My purpose is to tell people to avoid this breeder. I do not want to hear that anyone else has experienced this heartache as the result of a breeder such as MN English Goldens. And thank you Robin (Prism Goldens) for putting Bailey's info on k9 data so that anyone looking up his sire and dam can see Bailey's diagnosis of epilepsy. I sincerely hope it helps someone.


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## patrickStads

Who did you go with? We are looking for a breeder also.


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## patrickStads

Instead of MN English golden, who would you all recommend? We are in the same area and are interested in a white/cream colored GR. Glad I found this forum!


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## G-bear

I would avoid any breeder who advertises "English Cream Golden Retrievers" because there is not such thing. There are light colored goldens just as there are darker colored goldens. They are all simply called golden retrievers and a breeder using the term English Cream is usually someone who is attempting to charge more for dogs based on a fad involving lighter colored golden retrievers. What you will want to find is a breeder who does all of the clearances recommended and who follows the GRCA code of ethics. I am assuming that you are looking for a dog in the Minnesota/Wisconsin area. If you type the words breeders in Minnesota and Wisconsin area into the search box at the top of the page you should see threads which will list a number of reputable breeders in the area where you are looking. Please understand that reputable breeders may not always have a dog immediately available. You may have to wait for a dog or expand your search area. Once you find a breeder you can post the (registered) names of the sire/dam on the forum and it is very likely that there will be members willing to check to make sure that clearances have, in fact, been done. I wish you the absolute best in your search. Be patient. There are many reputable breeders in your area. Go with one of them. I think in the end you will be glad you did.


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## nolefan

patrickStads said:


> Instead of MN English golden, who would you all recommend? We are in the same area and are interested in a white/cream colored GR. Glad I found this forum!


Please understand, if you are using color of the dog as your top priority in filtering through Golden breeders, you are setting yourself up for dealing with much lower quality breeders. No reputable breeder in the country who is truly experienced and committed to breeding dogs for health and temperament will be using the words 'cream' or 'white'. When a good breeder is evaluating pedigrees for her next litter, the color of the dogs is going to be dead last on a very long list of criteria. When you find a breeder mentioning color you can be certain that he or she has a major problem with priorities. You'd be smart to look in Canada where lighter colored dogs are more typical. Some reading for you:

https://grcc.net/index.php/27-2/

Pay particular attention to the breeder code of ethics and health:

https://www.grca.org/find-a-golden/more-topics-before-you-buy/

good luck


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## Bauer22

I am posting this to help my dog find a cure since I have too bought a English Cream Golden from Elaine....my puppy is 10 months old and has had health issues ( > $3000 of vet bills). It has started out with stomach issues (diarrhea) on and off for 5 months. This past August it became lethargic, no energy, no bark, no stretching, and just stand and stare like a statue. Vet - X-rays showed nothing. Blood work > high WBC and fever - some infection - given anti- biotics. He recovered after about a week - 10 days. Now its back again with same symptons after last months illness (Recently neutered two weeks ago) - more anti- biotics and now waiting on results from a full panel of blood work. But today I awoke to blood he either sneezed out or spit out > Thus going to the Vet now....Does anyone have thoughts here ??


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## Bauer22

duplicate post


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## Bauer22

Duplicate post


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## DanaRuns

Blood sneezed out is a bad sign. Dogs don't get bloody noses. Take him to the vet right away.


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## Cathaziel

Cook4u said:


> To the breeders on this site...I ask this. Would any Golden association be able to do anything to shut this business down given all this information? I just found a third BBB complaint which she has "settled". What other options are out there? Such a shame - she makes lots of money and gets away with it, producing unwell pups.


We have had problems w/ this breeder too, we have two dogs from her. I recently emailed her about a serious problem w/ our dog & she ignored the email. I thought she loved her dogs & their puppies. Feeling dumb after reading all of these posts! And it’s 2/2020!


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## Cathaziel

Bauer22 said:


> I am posting this to help my dog find a cure since I have too bought a English Cream Golden from Elaine....my puppy is 10 months old and has had health issues ( > $3000 of vet bills). It has started out with stomach issues (diarrhea) on and off for 5 months. This past August it became lethargic, no energy, no bark, no stretching, and just stand and stare like a statue. Vet - X-rays showed nothing. Blood work > high WBC and fever - some infection - given anti- biotics. He recovered after about a week - 10 days. Now its back again with same symptons after last months illness (Recently neutered two weeks ago) - more anti- biotics and now waiting on results from a full panel of blood work. But today I awoke to blood he either sneezed out or spit out > Thus going to the Vet now....Does anyone have thoughts here ??


What happened w/ your puppy? Was he ok??


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## Bauer22

Cathaziel said:


> What happened w/ your puppy? Was he ok??


It had steroid meningitis...was given Prednisone. It has been a total relief - he has been well for over two months now....


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## Bauer22

Cathaziel said:


> We have had problems w/ this breeder too, we have two dogs from her. I recently emailed her about a serious problem w/ our dog & she ignored the email. I thought she loved her dogs & their puppies. Feeling dumb after reading all of these posts! And it’s 2/2020!


I know the feeling....


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## Cathaziel

Bauer22 said:


> It had steroid meningitis...was given Prednisone. It has been a total relief - he has been well for over two months now....


So glad your puppy is ok!?


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## Cathaziel

Bauer22 said:


> I know the feeling....


I almost died when I found these posts! Thought it was a dream. I was up till 3 am reading them ALL. Think I’m going to have our 1 1/2 year old pup DNA tested & also tested for ICT which I’m 90% sure she has it & has had it since we brought her home. I’m just praying she doesn’t have anything else going on Health wise. If so I’m not quite sure how I’m going to handle it but I will be taking action one way or the other. ?


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## Bauer22

Cathaziel said:


> I almost died when I found these posts! Thought it was a dream. I was up till 3 am reading them ALL. Think I’m going to have our 1 1/2 year old pup DNA tested & also tested for ICT which I’m 90% sure she has it & has had it since we brought her home. I’m just praying she doesn’t have anything else going on Health wise. If so I’m not quite sure how I’m going to handle it but I will be taking action one way or the other. ?





Cathaziel said:


> I almost died when I found these posts! Thought it was a dream. I was up till 3 am reading them ALL. Think I’m going to have our 1 1/2 year old pup DNA tested & also tested for ICT which I’m 90% sure she has it & has had it since we brought her home. I’m just praying she doesn’t have anything else going on Health wise. If so I’m not quite sure how I’m going to handle it but I will be taking action one way or the other. ?


I hope is all ok....it appears you were the litter before me. My boy was born 11/12/18....


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## Bauer22

Bauer22 said:


> I hope is all ok....it appears you were the litter before me. My boy was born 11/12/18....


I also felt horrible after reading all the posts....


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## BodieK

Have any of you had problems with seizures? My Bodie was born 4/7/15 and just had his second seizure. Do you have any tips? He had his bloodwork done after the first one 3 weeks ago, and it came back normal.
Ugh... I love him so much, but Elaine should NOT be breeding!!! I just saw an ad on puppyfind and she’s selling her puppies for $3200 now which is ridiculous!!


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## Bauer22

BodieK said:


> Have any of you had problems with seizures? My Bodie was born 4/7/15 and just had his second seizure. Do you have any tips? He had his bloodwork done after the first one 3 weeks ago, and it came back normal.
> Ugh... I love him so much, but Elaine should NOT be breeding!!! I just saw an ad on puppyfind and she’s selling her puppies for $3200 now which is ridiculous!!





BodieK said:


> Have any of you had problems with seizures? My Bodie was born 4/7/15 and just had his second seizure. Do you have any tips? He had his bloodwork done after the first one 3 weeks ago, and it came back normal.
> Ugh... I love him so much, but Elaine should NOT be breeding!!! I just saw an ad on puppyfind and she’s selling her puppies for $3200 now which is ridiculous!!


No seizures here...


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## Cathaziel

Bauer22 said:


> No seizures here...





BodieK said:


> Have any of you had problems with seizures? My Bodie was born 4/7/15 and just had his second seizure. Do you have any tips? He had his bloodwork done after the first one 3 weeks ago, and it came back normal.
> Ugh... I love him so much, but Elaine should NOT be breeding!!! I just saw an ad on puppyfind and she’s selling her puppies for $3200 now which is ridiculous!!


No we haven’t. Hope you find out what’s causing them.???


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## annef

I have recently read more on this tread and I saw that I commented about the $25,000 fee she was charged for a UK import. No dogs in the kennel have been imported from the UK although there are some UK lines behind the dogs.


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## BrittMN

I just want to thank everyone for their posts in this thread. After losing two Goldens to cancer I thought I would have a better chance of avoiding that fate with an English Golden. I had a bad experience with another MN breeder and was within an hour of contacting MN English Goldens.... and I feel like I just dodged a bullet. I am so sorry for those of you who experienced health problems with your dogs. Thanks so much for sharing your stories!


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## G-bear

I rarely come to the forum but saw your post today. Yes, there is at least one other dog from Elaine which has seizures. My dog, Bailey, born 1/15/15 was diagnosed with idiopathic epilepsy after having bloodwork, an
MRI and a spinal tap. The cost of the testing was just under $3,000. I posted in this thread after his diagnosis. Prism was also kind enough to enter Bailey's info into K9Data for me at that time so that other potential buyers would be aware of the diagnosis. Idiopathic epilepsy frequently has a genetic component according to the neurologist treating Bailey. Bailey has been on Zonisamide 200 mg twice a day for several years and is doing well. You can view the info on K9Data at:Pedigree: Bailey Bear Heart Of Gold


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## Gwilma13

Cathaziel said:


> We have had problems w/ this breeder too, we have two dogs from her. I recently emailed her about a serious problem w/ our dog & she ignored the email. I thought she loved her dogs & their puppies. Feeling dumb after reading all of these posts! And it’s 2/2020!


We just pulled our deposit with her after a bad experience. Something is definitely not right with this “breeder”.


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## Pebbles2

Gwilma13 said:


> We just pulled our deposit with her after a bad experience. Something is definitely not right with this “breeder”.


. Let me ask, how did you get your deposit back? I put down a 500 deposit on 8/27/2020. We have had many tragic event in our family recently and do to those events I’m unable to get a pup. I notified Elaine of this sept 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Her response was, my websites states your deposit in non refundable despite never signing a contract! This is very poor business practice. I wish I would have found this forum prior to giving her a deposit. She is a high pressure sales women and it seems to me she is only interested in money. Feedback is greatly appreciated.


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## Pebbles2

Pebbles2 said:


> . Let me ask, how did you get your deposit back? I put down a 500 deposit on 8/27/2020. We have had many tragic event in our family recently and do to those events I’m unable to get a pup. I notified Elaine of this sept 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Her response was, my websites states your deposit in non refundable despite never signing a contract! This is very poor business practice. I wish I would have found this forum prior to giving her a deposit. She is a high pressure sales women and it seems to me she is only interested in money. Feedback is greatly appreciated.


Error, she received my deposit on 7/30


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## Pebbles2

Gwilma13 said:


> We just pulled our deposit with her after a bad experience. Something is definitely not right with this “breeder”.


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## Prism Goldens

I dk if your state has a cooling off period for purchase over some amount, but you might look into that... she has no expenses to point YOUR puppy's having cost her. It's absurd not to give your deposit back.


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## Bokeh Girl

nolefan said:


> They cashed a check from you four months ago and now won't return your calls or your emails? If that is the case, I would send them some registered mail and tell them to return your check before you contact your attorney.


Elaine cashed our $500.00 check immediately. I wanted to discuss the possibility of purchasing a retired adult female after I fractured my spine. (My surgeon said this would be a good choice, with less bending over than with a puppy).


As of August 2021, she’s selling puppies for $6000.00. She quoted a price of $8000.00 for her retired dog. She stopped returning calls, texts and emails when I tried negotiating a reasonable price.

Also, she’s now offering “training”. Sounds like the money making scheme at Recherché (sp?) Kennels. Making money off their dogs’ backs. 😭


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## Judith Silver Zucker

Bokeh Girl said:


> Elaine cashed our $500.00 check immediately. I wanted to discuss the possibility of purchasing a retired adult female after I fractured my spine. (My surgeon said this would be a good choice, with less bending over than with a puppy).
> 
> 
> As of August 2021, she’s selling puppies for $6000.00. She quoted a price of $8000.00 for her retired dog. She stopped returning calls, texts and emails when I tried negotiating a reasonable price.
> 
> Also, she’s now offering “training”. Sounds like the money making scheme at Recherché (sp?) Kennels. Making money off their dogs’ backs. 😭


Several years ago we had a very bad experience with her. She eventually kept our $500.00 deposit. We tried getting it back.


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## Bokeh Girl

Judith Silver Zucker said:


> Several years ago we had a very bad experience with her. She eventually kept our $500.00 deposit. We tried getting it back.


I’m so sorry this happened to you, Judith.
I strongly believe that she has so many puppies/ litters on the ground, she’s only breeding to line her pockets.


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## Judith Silver Zucker

Bokeh Girl said:


> I’m so sorry this happened to you, Judith.
> I strongly believe that she has so many puppies/ litters on the ground, she’s only breeding to line her pockets.


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## Judith Silver Zucker

She wasn’t up front with us. In good faith to save her reputation she should have returned the deposit. I would stay away from this breeder.


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## Bokeh Girl

Judith Silver Zucker said:


> She wasn’t up front with us. In good faith to save her reputation she should have returned the deposit. I would stay away from this breeder.


Exactly!


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## Goldman4

To anyone looking at this breeders puppies please don’t unless you want a good chance of a broken heart. I first found this forum after buying our beautiful Gabriella back in 2013 only to find out she had SAS (heart condition).The breeder acted as though she had never heard of it. In addition to SAS, Gabriella had eye problems and joint problems most of her short life. She was invited to be in a study of 3000 Goldens by the Morris Animal Foundation and every year she was given a comprehensive examination with bloodwork and tissue samples sent in to the foundation. The study aim of the study is to determine if there are environmental and genetic markers that can be identified in Goldens that cause cancer. Despite being given only the best food, plenty of exercise and love that cannot be measured since it was off the scale, she suffered from debilitating arthritis in her back, feet, carpal and elbows. It got to the point that she barely walk even though she had been on pain medication for the last several years. We even bought our own veterinary laser machine because we kept having to take her in for treatments so often. These are very expensive but also very effective and yet sometimes no matter how much money, vet specialists and effort you throw at health issues nothing can be done in the end. We lost her this past weekend 9/25/2022 just 2 months shy of her 10th birthday to bone cancer. Please keep all of this in mind if you ever consider this breeder. You and your pup might be subjected to far more vet appointments than normal and the heartbreak of watching your family member suffer and be gone far too early. If this post helps even a single person I’ll be grateful. Unfortunately most of us find this forum after the fact but word of mouth is also very effective.


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## Judith Silver Zucker

Nairb said:


> Is anyone here familiar with this Minnesota breeder?
> 
> MN ENGLISH GOLDEN
> 
> I'm new to this forum, and Golden Retrievers in general. I spoke with her on the phone, and everything seems legit, but was wondering if anyone here has experience dealing with this breeder, or knows someone who has.
> 
> Thanks.


Not legit with us. Kept our $500. deposit


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