# Watch the WKC Golden Retriever Best in Breed today live!



## 1stGold13

Thanks do you know which Ring? 1:15 central time?


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## abradshaw71

Ring 9. They are showing labs right now.


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## 1stGold13

Thank you so much


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## Roushbabe

Show is about to start ladies and gentlemen! Ring 9 at 1:15pm! Taking a late lunch break just to watch it on the live feed lol


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## abradshaw71

They are all so beautiful. I wish there was some comments with it because I have no idea what is happening.


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## Jamm

Gorgeous dogs so far! but they all will be!


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## abradshaw71

I'm surprised that they are so close in coloring with one another. They are all on the lighter side.


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## lhowemt

Funny, I was glad to see some medium/darker dogs. Although most of them are lighter. I think they are doing the DOGS right now, in smaller groups. I saw the judge just select 5 and send them out. I think that is a first cut of sorts and they will come back. I am confused though because I saw a Bitch I've been watching, she was out but they didn't do a full exam, trot around thing. I'm assuming/hoping the bitches are next and that was just some prelim thing.


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## abradshaw71

All I keep thinking is there is no way I could get Josie to stand there that calmly!  They are all just so amazing to watch.


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## lhowemt

Yes, I get a kick out of people that poo-poo dog shows. Their manners are amazing! Not just while actually being shown, but milling around outside the ring, etc etc.


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## lhowemt

Yup, those previous dogs just came out. So I am guessing this is the final selection from Dogs (male). Edit - maybe not, I heard the guy tell them to come back out in this order?????


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## abradshaw71

I need to go to a dog show at some point. I've never been to one. However, I would probably get kicked out for causing a disturbance if the golden didn't win.  I'm just a tad biased. I could never be a judge.


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## Goldenhopeful

I missed it!!! Anyway to watch a recording of it??? Darn it!


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## quilter

abradshaw71 said:


> All I keep thinking is there is no way I could get Josie to stand there that calmly!  They are all just so amazing to watch.


Exactly what I was thinking about Casper.


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## abradshaw71

It's still on.


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## Jamm

GCH Kalm Sea's To Have And To Hold- Will! 

pretty sure he just won BOB. (Please correct me if I'm wrong!)


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## Ljilly28

Graeme's third time winning goldens- he is such an iconic handler.


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## Megora

Ljilly28 said:


> Graeme's third time winning goldens- he is such an iconic handler.


Sure hope that it was the dogs he handled who won vs the judge judging the wrong end of the leash.


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## TheZ's

Ljilly28 said:


> Graeme's third time winning goldens- he is such an iconic handler.


He had such a wonderful rapport with that dog . . . really brought him alive.

eta: Now where do we go to find out who the winners were?


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## abradshaw71

Not sure. I wasn't paying attention to the handler numbers - just the dogs.


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## AmberSunrise

Question for someone ??

I watched a few of the earlier dogs (had to go into a meeting though) and the judge seemed to be checking the fur along the spine above the loin area on certain dogs - anyone have an idea what she was checking - 1 in particular kept returning to the ring and she would recheck


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## Megora

abradshaw71 said:


> Not sure. I wasn't paying attention to the handler numbers - just the dogs.


The #s are actually the dog's #s. <- I was getting peevled over here because some of the handlers had combs over the numbers so I couldn't look the dogs up to see who the dogs were. >.<

@Sharon - topline and croup.


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## AmberSunrise

Thanks  I didn't know quite what to think since it looked like she was ruffling the fur backwards, and then she would straighten up and pat their side right before they were gaited (or whatever its called)


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## lhowemt

Megora said:


> The #s are actually the dog's #s. <- I was getting peevled over here because some of the handlers had combs over the numbers so I couldn't look the dogs up to see who the dogs were. >.<
> 
> @Sharon - topline and croup.


They should wear BIG numbers on their back, like cross country skiers! LOL!

This was so fun to watch. Hazel has a half sister that won BOB once (Pinky in '02), that is our closest claim to fame. But this BOB's grandpa is Remington (Goldstorm), who is Lila's great grandpa (her dad is a Goldstorm). Lila has relatives from both side of her family doing BOB now! I know, silly, but it is fun to find a connection, it makes it more interesting to watch. Next year I'm going to research the pedigrees more and find relatives before hand to have more to pay attention to. However I think I will disregard Rush Hill's Kirby, since he is so ubiquitous it doesn't seem personal.


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## Kmullen

I think the judge did a decent job! I like Will from the beginning. Moderate dog and not overdone. I wish I would have entered my cannon under her, I think he would have done well. 

Congrats to all the winners.


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## abradshaw71

I don't know what any of these comments mean!  I just like watching the dogs! They are stunning, but I think my Josie Mae is just as beautiful.


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## TheZ's

Couple of questions for show people:

Many of the dogs seemed to have very substantial bone in their legs. Does the grooming give that appearance or do the dogs really have that much bone? Similar question with the feet, is it just a matter of the nails being cut really close or do they have that much substance to their paws?

Watching what the judge was doing, I didn't notice her checking for what I think is referred to as shoulder layback (the angle of the shoulder into the front leg). Was I missing it or does each judge have their own way of putting their hands on the dogs to check structure?


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## DanaRuns

TheZ's said:


> He had such a wonderful rapport with that dog . . . really brought him alive.
> 
> eta: Now where do we go to find out who the winners were?


These were the winners according to Barbar Wohlferd:

Best Of Breed 27 GCH Kalm Seas To HAve and To Hold
Best Opposite Sex 61 GCH Pebwin Hocus Pocus
Select Bitch 20 Ch Nautilus Aneira 
Select Dog 55 Ch. Summit's Vanilla Sky
Judge's Award Of Merit
14 GCH Sandpiper's Let Freedom Ring
25 GCH Wingold's Eagle Scout
57 GCH Steadmor Take a Gander
31 GCH My Buddy The Eye Of The Beholder
23 GCH Sa Qie Er 

The official results aren't up yet (as I write this), but you will be able to see them here: The Westminster Kennel Club | 2014 Breed Entries: Retriever (Golden)


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## Kmullen

TheZ's said:


> Couple of questions for show people:
> 
> Many of the dogs seemed to have very substantial bone in their legs. Does the grooming give that appearance or do the dogs really have that much bone? Similar question with the feet, is it just a matter of the nails being cut really close or do they have that much substance to their paws?
> 
> Watching what the judge was doing, I didn't notice her checking for what I think is referred to as shoulder layback (the angle of the shoulder into the front leg). Was I missing it or does each judge have their own way of putting their hands on the dogs to check structure?


 It depends. Some dog chalk up the legs and brush up to where they will appear to have more bone. I saw her checking shoulder, upperarm, and depth of chest.


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## Megora

I'm a newbie at this, but -



> Many of the dogs seemed to have very substantial bone in their legs. Does the grooming give that appearance or do the dogs really have that much bone? Similar question with the feet, is it just a matter of the nails being cut really close or do they have that much substance to their paws?


 Oh I bet it is a combination of the two. 

I do know that Bertie (show breeding) has huge feet in comparison to Jacks (pet breeding). It's bizarre to feel the difference when I grooming them. 

I asked our groomer if I should put stuff on his feet at the show, and she said he didn't need it (I still put a little thick n thicker in when we showed). 




> Watching what the judge was doing, I didn't notice her checking for what I think is referred to as shoulder layback (the angle of the shoulder into the front leg). Was I missing it or does each judge have their own way of putting their hands on the dogs to check structure?


 She was that I saw....  

She moved quickly, but definitely saw her check their expression in front, moved in and checked ears (length), teeth, did the shoulder/chest check before moving to down the dog's body to the back/rear/tail. 

The thing I was chuckling about was a couple dogs were a little rambunctious and bouncing around there (which she didn't seem to appreciate) and or the handlers brought them up and showed the side instead of the front of the dog - and the judge seemed to want to see the dogs front angles.


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## lhowemt

What do you think the story was behind the gal in denim legging? I'm guessing she hadn't planned on handling, LOL! Poor woman is probably the butt of jokes around the country right now.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## momtolabs

Will is adorable!! Even though *my* breed is labs I was happy to see Will place in group!! 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## hotel4dogs

about the fur on the back, a lot of the good judges will check there for proper coat. They can see the quality and quantity of undercoat there.


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## hotel4dogs

I had the same thought about Tito. We can always hope she's invited to judge a National  . Very happy to see a nice, moderate dog win!




kfayard said:


> I think the judge did a decent job! I like Will from the beginning. Moderate dog and not overdone. I wish I would have entered my cannon under her, I think he would have done well.
> 
> Congrats to all the winners.


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## Kmullen

hotel4dogs said:


> I had the same thought about Tito. We can always hope she's invited to judge a National  . Very happy to see a nice, moderate dog win!


 I agree!!!!!


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## Bentman2

*No Dark Goldens*

Help, I am new here and need to be educated. Why are all the Goldens being shown today light to medium color and no dark Goldens? :bowl:


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## stan and ollie

There was some chaos in my house last night and I wasn't paying strict attention to the show. I have met Sue Robins of Kalm Sea. We spoke at a dog show about a puppy a few years ago but she wanted him to go only to a conformation home which we were not.
I have recommended Kalm Sea several times on the forum to people looking for a breeder in NJ. I am so happy for Sue, she must be floating on air.


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## DanaRuns

Bentman2 said:


> Help, I am new here and need to be educated. Why are all the Goldens being shown today light to medium color and no dark Goldens? :bowl:


I know at least two dark Goldens that were there. Freedom (first Award of Merit) and Dory (Top 20 in 2013) are both pretty dark. Maybe it's just how it looked on your computer. But there were definitely dark dogs there, who did well.


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## abradshaw71

stan and ollie said:


> There was some chaos in my house last night and I wasn't paying strict attention to the show. I have met Sue Robins of Kalm Sea. We spoke at a dog show about a puppy a few years ago but she wanted him to go only to a conformation home which we were not.
> I have recommended Kalm Sea several times on the forum to people looking for a breeder in NJ. I am so happy for Sue, she must be floating on air.


I guess I don't understand why some breeders want their dogs to only go to conformation homes. Really? Are they breeding their dogs for recognition only or breeding their dogs for the love of the breed and wanting their dogs to go to loving homes? I will never be part of the "show" world. I know it means a lot to so many people, but sometimes I think some go a little too far in making sure it's all about the win! Poor dog. The cost of a puppy from some breeders is ridiculous. 

Sorry to rant. I will always own a golden because that is the breed I adore and love. Hopefully I can afford a puppy when the time comes for a new one. I will be responsible and search out a reputable breeder but will also draw a line in how much I'm willing to spend.


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## Kmullen

Bentman2 said:


> Help, I am new here and need to be educated. Why are all the Goldens being shown today light to medium color and no dark Goldens? :bowl:


 I saw a few of darker goldens. I think most are medium in color. What is wrong with medium color?


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## Kmullen

abradshaw71 said:


> I guess I don't understand why some breeders want their dogs to only go to conformation homes. Really? Are they breeding their dogs for recognition only or breeding their dogs for the love of the breed and wanting their dogs to go to loving homes? I will never be part of the "show" world. I know it means a lot to so many people, but sometimes I think some go a little too far in making sure it's all about the win! Poor dog. The cost of a puppy from some breeders is ridiculous.
> 
> Sorry to rant. I will always own a golden because that is the breed I adore and love. Hopefully I can afford a puppy when the time comes for a new one. I will be responsible and search out a reputable breeder but will also draw a line in how much I'm willing to spend.


 I don't think she was saying that all the puppies were going to show homes, but a particular puppy. Most breeders sell puppies to pet people (typically 80-90% of the litter will go to pet homes). 

I am really not sure what you mean here.


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## stan and ollie

kfayard said:


> I don't think she was saying that all the puppies were going to show homes, but a particular puppy. Most breeders sell puppies to pet people (typically 80-90% of the litter will go to pet homes).
> 
> I am really not sure what you mean here.


That's it exactly, the litter was sold, she kept one she thought would be a good show prospect. She wanted him to have the chance to see how he would do. I think most good breeders will do that if one puppy is pretty close to perfect, they would want it to try the conformation ring.


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## Brave

abradshaw71 said:


> I guess I don't understand why some breeders want their dogs to only go to conformation homes. Really? Are they breeding their dogs for recognition only or breeding their dogs for the love of the breed and wanting their dogs to go to loving homes? I will never be part of the "show" world. I know it means a lot to so many people, but sometimes I think some go a little too far in making sure it's all about the win! Poor dog. The cost of a puppy from some breeders is ridiculous.
> 
> Sorry to rant. I will always own a golden because that is the breed I adore and love. Hopefully I can afford a puppy when the time comes for a new one. I will be responsible and search out a reputable breeder but will also draw a line in how much I'm willing to spend.


I think that most reputable breeders who have good prospects in a litter, will try to place those prospects in the home in which they will excel the most. Perhaps the puppies left in litter at that time were believed to be good show prospects. If so, why wouldn't a breeder want to place those puppies in homes in which their owners are interested in showing them? There is a great deal of pride in one's work and accomplishments when doing anything, IMO especially with your pets, and also IMO, a breeder has that pride - not vanity - compounded by every single puppy they whelp. 

Having only my rescue mix, there is still a great deal of pride when I speak with his foster mama and his rescue with how he is doing. They blossom and shine to see how well he is doing, and that we have this incredible bond AND working relationship. I imagine the same holds true for breeders.


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## Kmullen

stan and ollie said:


> That's it exactly, the litter was sold, she kept one she thought would be a good show prospect. She wanted him to have the chance to see how he would do. I think most good breeders will do that if one puppy is pretty close to perfect, they would want it to try the conformation ring.


 yep, that is what I thought


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## Megora

Bentman2 said:


> Help, I am new here and need to be educated. Why are all the Goldens being shown today light to medium color and no dark Goldens? :bowl:


 I saw some darker goldens out there.... the golden who won breed isn't that light either. 



abradshaw71 said:


> I guess I don't understand why some breeders want their dogs to only go to conformation homes. Really? Are they breeding their dogs for recognition only or breeding their dogs for the love of the breed and wanting their dogs to go to loving homes? I will never be part of the "show" world. I know it means a lot to so many people, but sometimes I think some go a little too far in making sure it's all about the win! Poor dog. The cost of a puppy from some breeders is ridiculous.
> 
> Sorry to rant. I will always own a golden because that is the breed I adore and love. Hopefully I can afford a puppy when the time comes for a new one. I will be responsible and search out a reputable breeder but will also draw a line in how much I'm willing to spend.


I think if you ever go to a dog show or pick up classes with your dogs and train at a location where people are very serious about showing their dogs in obedience or conformation - you go by the relationship which the people have with their dogs. 

It's not really true of all show or performance dogs (very sadly), but honestly - when for some I can think of, these dogs are loved and spoiled. 

I didn't really want a conformation dog when I bought Bertie. I was talked into it by friends and even while I still have my doubts about whether I'm committed enough to getting that title with all the expenses involved (I've heard it costs anywhere between $15000 and 20000 to get that CH unless you are a pro handler yourself).... I'm still hanging in there because unlike with obedience where your dog is harnessed more or less and kept very tightly under control... conformation, you get to see your dog be as outgoing and golden-retriever-y as he wants. 

Here in Michigan, the cost of a well bred golden is $1200-1500 on average. This is with breeders who show or compete with their dogs. 

The nice thing about buying a puppy from a breeder like that is health. Bertie just had his second physical (and this was the "real" one since not a lot of stuff shows up with puppies). His bloodwork and urinalysis - full screen, looking for anything off - the results were perfect. They also looked at everything from his eyes, ears, etc.... and again, clean and no sign of any infection or problem. <- That's not even going into the eyes/heart/hips/elbow clearances which I will probably get going on this summer.


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## abradshaw71

kfayard said:


> I don't think she was saying that all the puppies were going to show homes, but a particular puppy. Most breeders sell puppies to pet people (typically 80-90% of the litter will go to pet homes).
> 
> I am really not sure what you mean here.


Thank you for the explanation. I had taken it to mean that the whole litter would only be sold to those who would do conformation. I appreciate the clarification.

As for the rest, I guess I should have stated that I'm concerned over the cost of golden retriever puppies. I started looking at breeders here in Michigan and was shocked by what some people charge for a puppy. Is this due to popularity of the breed, the breeder being greedy, the pedigree of the parents, or due to the expenses a breeder puts into the litter. I will never be able to afford a $1,000 or more puppy and that is basically what I'm finding when I look at breeders. I want a sound, happy, healthy puppy just like the next person does, but does spending that much money guarantee a long and healthy life for the dog? I'm just concerned that golden retrievers will be too expensive for me to buy a new puppy some day. I feel like I got the deal of the day by getting Josie for $400. Granted, she was 50% off because she was the last of her litter and was 13 weeks old. 

I don't mean to complain and I don't want to offend any breeders out there. I know the majority of breeders truly care for their dogs and put a lot of time and effort into them.


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## Brave

abradshaw71 said:


> As for the rest, I guess I should have stated that I'm concerned over the cost of golden retriever puppies. I started looking at breeders here in Michigan and was shocked by what some people charge for a puppy. Is this due to popularity of the breed, the breeder being greedy, the pedigree of the parents, or due to the expenses a breeder puts into the litter. I will never be able to afford a $1,000 or more puppy and that is basically what I'm finding when I look at breeders. I want a sound, happy, healthy puppy just like the next person does, but does spending that much money guarantee a long and healthy life for the dog? I'm just concerned that golden retrievers will be too expensive for me to buy a new puppy some day. I feel like I got the deal of the day by getting Josie for $400. Granted, she was 50% off because she was the last of her litter and was 13 weeks old.
> 
> I don't mean to complain and I don't want to offend any breeders out there. I know the majority of breeders truly care for their dogs and put a lot of time and effort into them.


Something I'm remembering off the top of my head. Check out this thread: 

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...234-i-dont-want-show-dog-i-just-want-pet.html

I'll try to find the other one I really liked, I think LJack wrote it. I'll let you know if I can find it.


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## Kmullen

abradshaw71 said:


> Thank you for the explanation. I had taken it to mean that the whole litter would only be sold to those who would do conformation. I appreciate the clarification.
> 
> As for the rest, I guess I should have stated that I'm concerned over the cost of golden retriever puppies. I started looking at breeders here in Michigan and was shocked by what some people charge for a puppy. Is this due to popularity of the breed, the breeder being greedy, the pedigree of the parents, or due to the expenses a breeder puts into the litter. I will never be able to afford a $1,000 or more puppy and that is basically what I'm finding when I look at breeders. I want a sound, happy, healthy puppy just like the next person does, but does spending that much money guarantee a long and healthy life for the dog? I'm just concerned that golden retrievers will be too expensive for me to buy a new puppy some day. I feel like I got the deal of the day by getting Josie for $400. Granted, she was 50% off because she was the last of her litter and was 13 weeks old.
> 
> I don't mean to complain and I don't want to offend any breeders out there. I know the majority of breeders truly care for their dogs and put a lot of time and effort into them.


 There are many threads on here about clearances and prices if you go to the search bar. Some very heated threads. I don't think most reputable breeders are greeders.. There are many breeders that lose money on breedings. You say Josie was $400, but she was half off. That means that the breeder was charging $800. Did the breeder have all clearances on their dogs? The thing is... the money that reputable breeders *make* (if that is how you want to put it) is put right back into their breeding program. BYB breeders that charge 400-600 or plus do not prove their dogs are worthy of being bred and typically no clearances. So, that money goes right in their pockets.

I can't tell you how much money I have spend on breedings. I put a lot of time, thought, and money in my dogs. Now I do not think a pet quality puppy should cost 2000 or more.


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## abradshaw71

Brave said:


> Something I'm remembering off the top of my head. Check out this thread:
> 
> http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...234-i-dont-want-show-dog-i-just-want-pet.html
> 
> I'll try to find the other one I really liked, I think LJack wrote it. I'll let you know if I can find it.


Thanks for the article. I figured at some point someone was going to make the comparison between a good breeder and a good car. I'm from Michigan. I don't buy foreign. We are Chevy and Ford people here.


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## Bentman2

DanaRuns said:


> I know at least two dark Goldens that were there. Freedom (first Award of Merit) and Dory (Top 20 in 2013) are both pretty dark. Maybe it's just how it looked on your computer. But there were definitely dark dogs there, who did well.


Yeah, I saw 2-3, what i would call medium goldens but not like the ones on Tippykayak. Do the really dark goldens not show well or is there something that judges do not like?


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## Bentman2

*Mediums are great*



kfayard said:


> I saw a few of darker goldens. I think most are medium in color. What is wrong with medium color?


 
There is nothing, under the sun, wrong with any of the golden colors. All are awesome in their own way. I had a medium golden for 10 year and the only reason why I have a light one now, is that I could not find a medium one in the area. It just seems that there are a disproportionate number of lights to medium and dark in the WDS. I did not see any dark ones similar to the share of Tippykayak. Why is that? :wave:


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## DanaRuns

There are plenty of darker dogs out here on the west coast. Two dogs I'm going to go visit in about 15 minutes are:



















My puppy, Ziva, is dark and related to these two dogs.


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## Brave

Bentman2 said:


> There is nothing, under the sun, wrong with any of the golden colors. All are awesome in their own way. I had a medium golden for 10 year and the only reason why I have a light one now, is that I could not find a medium one in the area. It just seems that there are a disproportionate number of lights to medium and dark in the WDS. I did not see any dark ones similar to the share of Tippykayak. Why is that? :wave:


I wonder if the color variations extend to other breeds. For instance, are there fewer merle aussies than tris? etc. 

It could be simply a sampling of what is popular in the golden breed at the moment. 

I'm not sure how one even gets into Westminster, so I wonder if the sampling seems disproportionate simply because so few dogs from each breed are selected to exhibit.


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## Bentman2

DanaRuns said:


> There are plenty of darker dogs out here on the west coast. Two dogs I'm going to go visit in about 15 minutes are:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My puppy, Ziva, is dark and related to these two dogs.



Yeah, these three are darker, especially the first one. That is what I consider a dark golden. Thanks for taking the time to put me straight. I bet you love being out there. You're the best.


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## Bentman2

*Westminister*



Brave said:


> I wonder if the color variations extend to other breeds. For instance, are there fewer merle aussies than tris? etc.
> 
> It could be simply a sampling of what is popular in the golden breed at the moment.
> 
> I'm not sure how one even gets into Westminster, so I wonder if the sampling seems disproportionate simply because so few dogs from each breed are selected to exhibit.


Brave, I did happen to watch the WKCDS this morning, and specifically the exhibit of the Goldens, and by in large the majority were light Goldens. I did not count the number that were exhibited but I would think 40-50. Of these I only saw 3-4 I would consider medium Golden and maybe 1 that I would consider dark. I could be entirely wrong, but maybe a large majority of the dark Goldens get involved in hunting or other activites other than shows. DanaRuns did indicate that a larger group of darker Goldens were on the west coast. I think the color range on Goldens is more varied than some other breeds.


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## Jaime

I just want to respond by saying our family was lucky enough, and honored to bring home our Kalm Sea puppy (Gracie) from Sue Robins in December. I am not a conformation home.... our puppy is a family pet. When you fill out your application (yes, application) for one of her puppies, she asks what your intentions for the puppy will be. She breeds very thoroughly and from the heart. Her property is fantastic (and all about the dogs)... her Goldens are beautiful. Her pedigree lines have longevity - she has worked very hard over many years to establish this.... for the love and health of the breed. She will Not allow her puppies to go home to just anyone, and I think that is phenomenal. It is the reason we chose her - she is doing her part to preserve the breed as best she can. I'm sure in any litter there is that chance for one or more of her puppies to have potential in some area. She obviously knows what she is doing and can recognize this. I imagine that is the reason perhaps the above person may not have been the right fit for that specific puppy. Sue is a lovely, lovely woman and so humble - she is definitely not all about the win. Remember, this is her livelihood. Don't we all strive to be "good" at what we do.... And if we want to continue to get healthy and sturdy Goldens wouldn't you want to go to someone like her? By the way, our now 17 week old puppy is fantastic. She is steady, confident, very smart, friendly, and oh so sweet. I have twin five year olds, and a three year old. When I contacted Sue initially, she thought my kids would be too young (at the time my twins were four) to have a puppy. But she knew I had owned a Golden prior therefore she asked for me to bring my family out to her house so she could meet us. The first time, she did not have puppies - she wanted to see how the kids interacted with her older Goldens. My kids did great - they love dogs, respect them, and don't have any fear of larger dogs. She asked us to come back again when she had puppies to see how the kids interacted with them. They again did great. She recognized the personality of my kids, our activity level and lifestyle, and picked out a wonderful puppy with the perfect temperament for our family's few months later. We could not be happier - she just is very, very good at what she does - as she should be. Congrats to her and Will on their Best of Breed win at Westminster - I spoke to her a few weeks ago to give her an update on Gracie, and she had mentioned Will had qualified to Westminster. I do not believe she was expecting this outcome, however it is so well deserved!


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