# Not ready for agility? Why?



## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

9 months is still early to be jumping a golden or using full height equipment. Does the training school offer foundation classes where shadow(ground) handling is taught? 

It is normally suggested you wait 14-16 months for the growth plates to close (you can do X Rays to see when they are closed but the above range seems okay) before you start increasing jump heights and use full height equipment.


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## BuddyinFrance (May 20, 2015)

Sunrise said:


> 9 months is still early to be jumping a golden or using full height equipment. Does the training school offer foundation classes where shadow(ground) handling is taught?
> 
> It is normally suggested you wait 14-16 months for the growth plates to close (you can do X Rays to see when they are closed but the above range seems okay) before you start increasing jump heights and use full height equipment.


Hello Sunrise.. Thanks for the reply. No, there is no foundation class that I am aware of. I'll make a few enquiries to see if foundation classes are available elsewhere and then sit tight for a while. Are the small jumps in our yard OK or do you think he is too Young even for that?


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Rule of thumb is no more than elbow height


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

Could you do tunnels, and weave poles, and maybe hula hoops at home? I made weave polls out of pvc pipes, and had Max just sort of walk through the hula hoop, lifted it off the ground a bit more each time. (Max is fully grown, but you could just have the puppy walk over the hoop, maybe?)


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## BuddyinFrance (May 20, 2015)

laprincessa said:


> Could you do tunnels, and weave poles, and maybe hula hoops at home? I made weave polls out of pvc pipes, and had Max just sort of walk through the hula hoop, lifted it off the ground a bit more each time. (Max is fully grown, but you could just have the puppy walk over the hoop, maybe?)


we do the hula hoops and he loves it. Great idea for the weave poles. That will keep my daughter amused too!!


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Weave poles -- try to hold off on these as well unless you have channel weaves that are fully open, there is a lot of action and twisting going on.


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## Chritty (Aug 17, 2014)

Sunrise said:


> Rule of thumb is no more than elbow height



Just for clarity, do you mean the dog's elbow?


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

LOL yes, the dog's elbow height 



Chritty said:


> Just for clarity, do you mean the dog's elbow?


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

My dog is 18 months, and we are just now waiting for a puppy agility or intro to agility class to be available with my breeder's permission. I am told at this age very low jumps and I believe no weave poles.

I was also told years ago that dogs will not always listen to children under 13 years old, because of their voice tones and dogs have a hard time reading children's body language, so they should not be a dog's primary trainer.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

I tend to wait 18-24 months to start weave pole training and increase jump heights (my pups are introduced to wide open channel weaves and jump bumps earlier); there is so much ground work, body awareness , impulse control and building of drive and desire to work that needs to be worked on --

My in person instructor is always disappointed in how long I wait, but my online instructors also tend to wait and really work foundations ..

I should mention that MACHs are not my goal -- I simply do not have the financial resources or the desire to spend that much time away from home for MACH/PACH campaigning in addition to my rally & obedience goals so take what I say with that in mind  My oldest dog Faelan has his Excellent titles (STD and JWW) and at 7 years old may not get further titles as I work towards other goals with him.

I show in AKC so a MACH is Master Agility Champion while a PACH is similar but for the Preferred classes





cubbysan said:


> My dog is 18 months, and we are just now waiting for a puppy agility or intro to agility class to be available with my breeder's permission. I am told at this age very low jumps and I believe no weave poles.
> 
> I was also told years ago that dogs will not always listen to children under 13 years old, because of their voice tones and dogs have a hard time reading children's body language, so they should not be a dog's primary trainer.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Sunrise said:


> I tend to wait 18-24 months to start weave pole training and increase jump heights (my pups are introduced to wide open channel weaves and jump bumps earlier); there is so much ground work, body awareness , impulse control and building of drive and desire to work that needs to be worked on --
> 
> My in person instructor is always disappointed in how long I wait, but my online instructors also tend to wait and really work foundations ..
> 
> ...


Wow, so much of what you said is so over my head. . We are just looking at agility because my puppy "needs a job". I guess once we get into it, I will understand all the titles.


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

9 mos. is an absolutely wonderful age to begin agility training. They really pick it up fast at that age. But as Sunrise said, no jumps over elbow height, and only walk through weave poles. Otherwise, 9 months old is fine for most everything else, including tunnels, teeters, dog walk, A-frame, etc. Are you sure the trainer means he's too young? By "not ready" could that mean he just needs a better obedience foundation first?


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## boomers_dawn (Sep 20, 2009)

Is it possible your teacher just means no entering trials or running full courses yet but the team can/should work on refining the basic skills? 
My impression from your post is the dog is under control when you handle him in class with sit/stay/down but when you say "full of beans" does that mean when your daughter handles him, he runs around and acts like a puppy? 

I think for the team to be ready to run full courses or trials, the dog should be under good control at all times and has basics like sit/stay/wait/heel down pat with your daughter handling him.

I don't run agility but from listening to other people talk about it, they say it is critical to learn "foundation" skills before running courses, to prevent dogs from just running around doing whatever obstacles they feel like, and also to complete the course in the fastest most efficient time. At your dog's age, if he runs around full of beans, he could get hurt. Mine used to run around full of beans and jumped off the top of the A-frame when we were using it for fun.

I've seen people working on special spins and turns, body awareness exercises like getting their back feet to move separate from their front feet. Then there's obedience related skills like cueing to wait, directional signals from a distance, pivoting, heeling work ... this is just from my observation, as I said I don't do agility ... I can't fit any more handling skills and rules into my already packed brain ... although I keep hearing how much fun it is!! 

If it were me, instead of looking for other instructors, I would first ask the instructor for a little more detail what they mean and see if there are any areas of focus for the team to work on and/or some ideas of "homework" tricks and skills they can practice at home.


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

Sunrise said:


> Weave poles -- try to hold off on these as well unless you have channel weaves that are fully open, there is a lot of action and twisting going on.


Thank you - I didn't think of that.


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## ceegee (Mar 26, 2015)

I'm with DanaRuns here: your dog is at a wonderful age to start agility training. Keep the jumps low, reduce the height of the contact equipment and train 2 x 2 weave poles, and you'll be fine. There's a ton of basic stuff you can and should do at this age: turns, arounds, contacts, crosses, obstacle discrimination, etc. For some of these skills, you don't actually need agility equipment. And agility training is an extension of obedience training. If you've been through basic obedience classes, I don't see why your dog wouldn't be "ready" for agility.

As for your daughter: I'm very surprised your training school didn't want her involved in the early training. At our school, the whole family is encouraged to get involved. My daughter was 5 when I got my golden retriever, and she came to every single class with us. She handled the dog for many of the exercises, and helped me practise them at home. The dog was very responsive to her.

My daughter got her own dog when she was 9 years old (not a golden), and has done all the training with him from the very beginning. All I have done is drive them to class! He listens really well to her, will do all kinds of tricks, has excellent basic skills including a recall, and two years ago, when my daughter was 11, they won the under-12 division of the Canadian Junior Agility Games.

So yes absolutely, go for it! If your current trainer won't take you, look for one that will.


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## BuddyinFrance (May 20, 2015)

Chritty said:


> Just for clarity, do you mean the dog's elbow?


My daughter and I were just figuring this out as you posted your question lol! We were also trying to work out Buddy's knees from his elbows!!


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## BuddyinFrance (May 20, 2015)

cubbysan said:


> My dog is 18 months, and we are just now waiting for a puppy agility or intro to agility class to be available with my breeder's permission. I am told at this age very low jumps and I believe no weave poles.
> 
> I was also told years ago that dogs will not always listen to children under 13 years old, because of their voice tones and dogs have a hard time reading children's body language, so they should not be a dog's primary trainer.


Hi Cubbysan. Yes, absolutely our trainer discussed with this us and that is why he requested that I am the one to do all the basic obedience training with Buddy before my daughter gets involved. I agree she is very young at 11. But we have researched together and there are a few youngsters out there who do really well at agility with their Goldens. My daughter has an amazing bond with Buddy. She is very calm and self assured and (mostly) in control. She spends hours walking playing swimming and grooming him. She certainly has more success when she uses a "deeper" voice with him. Interesting anecdote... she has a twin brother who I wouldn't trust 5 minutes alone with the dog!!! I don't know which one would do the most damage!
We would so much like for Claudia to get involved. I have certain health problems which would prevent me from doing agility with Buddy.


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## BuddyinFrance (May 20, 2015)

cubbysan said:


> Wow, so much of what you said is so over my head. . We are just looking at agility because my puppy "needs a job". I guess once we get into it, I will understand all the titles.


Yes. Over my head too. But fascinating. We are looking all this up on the internet! I really appreciate the advice from a pro and thank Sunrise for the time you have taken to reply.


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## BuddyinFrance (May 20, 2015)

DanaRuns said:


> 9 mos. is an absolutely wonderful age to begin agility training. They really pick it up fast at that age. But as Sunrise said, no jumps over elbow height, and only walk through weave poles. Otherwise, 9 months old is fine for most everything else, including tunnels, teeters, dog walk, A-frame, etc. Are you sure the trainer means he's too young? By "not ready" could that mean he just needs a better obedience foundation first?


I need to have another chat to the trainer. Until now I have interpreted "not ready" as him not being obedient enough. He has never mentioned age. But this is why I am a little frustrated. Buddy is fairly obedient. But he is still only 9 months. And I want him to continue to learn whilst having some fun with basic agility instead of just ploughing up and down the field to heel, sit, stay and all of us getting a bit bored! Bit like not wanting your kids just to do 'reading and writing' at school lol!


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## BuddyinFrance (May 20, 2015)

boomers_dawn said:


> Is it possible your teacher just means no entering trials or running full courses yet but the team can/should work on refining the basic skills?
> My impression from your post is the dog is under control when you handle him in class with sit/stay/down but when you say "full of beans" does that mean when your daughter handles him, he runs around and acts like a puppy?
> 
> I think for the team to be ready to run full courses or trials, the dog should be under good control at all times and has basics like sit/stay/wait/heel down pat with your daughter handling him.
> ...


Hello. Thanks for the reply. Buddy responds to me "most" of the time and to my daughter 'some' of the time but she is working with him every day. He is a bit like Jeckyl and Hyde. He can be perfect and trot around the field to heel and do all sorts of good things then all of a sudden BOOOM he is off prancing around like a show horse on speed. By full of beans I just mean he is very agile and sporty and energetic. So do we need to wait until he really is 100 percent obedient before starting? I can't imagine that day ever arriving!!!!


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## BuddyinFrance (May 20, 2015)

ceegee said:


> I'm with DanaRuns here: your dog is at a wonderful age to start agility training. Keep the jumps low, reduce the height of the contact equipment and train 2 x 2 weave poles, and you'll be fine. There's a ton of basic stuff you can and should do at this age: turns, arounds, contacts, crosses, obstacle discrimination, etc. For some of these skills, you don't actually need agility equipment. And agility training is an extension of obedience training. If you've been through basic obedience classes, I don't see why your dog wouldn't be "ready" for agility.
> 
> As for your daughter: I'm very surprised your training school didn't want her involved in the early training. At our school, the whole family is encouraged to get involved. My daughter was 5 when I got my golden retriever, and she came to every single class with us. She handled the dog for many of the exercises, and helped me practise them at home. The dog was very responsive to her.
> 
> ...


Ceegee I love this reply thank you. We were really disappointed that our school would not let my daughter get involved. Not only do they insist on a "one trainer" approach they will not even let my daughter watch the classes quietly from a distance. They say the dog gets distracted. Which means that I have to go through everything we are Learning all over again with the kids when I get home from a 90 minute stint. You have motivated me to research other schools/trainers to check out their approaches. Congratulations for your achievements with you children. I think it is a beautiful enriching experience for children (and dog!)


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## boomers_dawn (Sep 20, 2009)

BuddyinFrance said:


> So do we need to wait until he really is 100 percent obedient before starting? I can't imagine that day ever arriving!!!!


Ha ha no I don't think so. If that were the case, none of us would do anything ever : I think they just have to be under control, like if they decide to open it up, they will come back when called.


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## bixx (Sep 8, 2015)

Amber and I are doing a pre agility course special for dogs under a year old and her recall varies. My main problem is her enthusiasm and that she equates other dogs with play time.

I work with her on a 5 m line because if I don't, she is off running to her two border collie classmates. We have also managed to do exercises without a leash and I can keep her focused on me until I try to catch my breath. So far, she has learned nose and paw target, running through a tunnel, getting onto a step and running through a slalom set corridor style (no weaving yet), going around a pole clockwise on command while counter clockwise still needs work, and walking through tires lying on the ground.

I think Buddy can do it but we are in a special course for pups so there is no activity that could possibly harm their growing bones (like jumping). Like you, my plan is to have my daughter take over but for now I am doing the training with her. Amber doesn't exactly see my daughter as an authority figure but as a playmate so that combination just wouldn't work right now.


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## quilter (Sep 12, 2011)

boomers_dawn said:


> Ha ha no I don't think so. If that were the case, none of us would do anything ever : I think they just have to be under control, like if they decide to open it up, they will come back when called.


Our local agility classes require a test for sit, stay, and recall. Our classes have recovering reactive dogs in them, and all the other dogs have to stay away from them. So, yea, it's pretty much 100% have to obey all the time around here. It's extremely stressful.


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## ellisda1 (Jul 24, 2013)

I started Luna on Agility at about 8 months - but no jumping or weaves! I tried a couple of different classes with different trainers and different facilities, and there's a huge difference in competence and experience with different trainers - don't be afraid to shop around! At 8-9 months, there's certainly no reason to start agility. Our club has an introductory course that teaches the basic contacts, and especially how to do all of the obstacles CORRECTLY to avoid injury. At that young age, with a Golden, it's not unexpected for bursts of wildness - we often started obstacles and short courses on lead. Luna was extremely bold - she'd try anything, but there were several more timid dogs that required very careful handling. If your trainer says your dog isn't ready, ask why, and if the answer isn't clear enough, look for another trainer. If your daughter is going to be running the agility courses, she should be the one who starts with the introductory classes. I'd also be a little careful about trying Agility on your own in the backyard, especially if you want to compete eventually. There's lots of fairly intricate handling, commands, and footwork for both dog and handler that is easier to learn correctly as a beginner than is is to un-learn and relearn. Just my opinion...


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