# Selling to show homes only?



## Ardeagold (Feb 26, 2007)

Because some breeders want their pups to be shown. HOWEVER, that doesn't usually mean ALL pups in the litter. Some just aren't "show" quality, and the breeders know it. Those that aren't are generally placed in pet homes.

I know that field breeders often want their pups placed in "working" homes, because of the temperament of the dog. They're much more active and have more drive to hunt (or just to constantly move), and don't make the best "pets" (as far as being ONLY pets). 

Hunting/working dogs are often pets too...but need to be in a home that understands that they need to work off that excess energy in the field or something like agility/dock diving/flyball, etc. In the wrong home....it can be a disaster for owner and dog.


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## khoch4 (Apr 15, 2009)

But do they want the pups (or a pup) to be shown so their reputation as a breeder is enhanced? Or because it would just be a crying shame not to show a certain dog? Or both?

I'm realizing that although I *thought* I did a very thorough job when looking for Bruno, I missed the mark somewhat (and paid as much as we would have for a really top-notch dog). We'll most likely get him a friend in a few years and I want to do better next time.


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## katieanddusty (Feb 9, 2006)

Conformation shows are a little different because not all pups in a litter will be show quality, but with breeders who breed for agility/obedience or field, I think it has a lot to do with their reputation as a breeder. I don't like to see an agility breeder who sells a lot of dogs into pet homes because I then have absolutely no idea of whether all those dogs had the potential to succeed in competition. Probably most of them did, but I'd rather see the titles there as proof. Also it says something that they can afford to only sell to competition homes, because that means that enough competition people want to buy from them.

But there are plenty of conformation breeders who will put a puppy in a pet home for little nitpicky reasons that don't affect the dog's ability to be a loving companion at all. If you're set on getting a puppy from a breeder instead of rescuing, I think that's the way to go.


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

katieanddusty said:


> Conformation shows are a little different because not all pups in a litter will be show quality, but with breeders who breed for agility/obedience or field, I think it has a lot to do with their reputation as a breeder. I don't like to see an agility breeder who sells a lot of dogs into pet homes because I then have absolutely no idea of whether all those dogs had the potential to succeed in competition. Probably most of them did, but I'd rather see the titles there as proof. Also it says something that they can afford to only sell to competition homes, because that means that enough competition people want to buy from them.
> 
> But there are plenty of conformation breeders who will put a puppy in a pet home for little nitpicky reasons that don't affect the dog's ability to be a loving companion at all. If you're set on getting a puppy from a breeder instead of rescuing, I think that's the way to go.


All true, but also some of the performance minded breeders are producing dogs that need jobs to do - and would be (could be) disastrous in a sedate pet home - sure there are active pet homes - but not all are going to want a golden puppy with that much energy - whereas a performance home (obedience, agility, field, etc) is looking for that temperament/personality and is equipped to deal with it. The other thing is that dogs that are showing/titled advance a breeder's program - there's a lot that a show home can do for a breeder's reputation.

FWIW, a few of the really good ones won't sell to show homes as a general rule (a few to their friends here and there) but in general don't want to deal with the prospect of intact dogs out there that they don't have a lot of control over...people can start out as responsible breeders and turn into something pretty disreputable in a matter of months or years and suddenly your name is out there in a not so positive way or associated with behavior you'd rather not have associated w/ your program...

Erica


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## buckeyegoldenmom (Oct 5, 2008)

I know when I contacted my breeder for Tucker. She initially told me that she was looking for show homes and didn't know if she would have any pet home puppies yet. That was the day after they were born. 

I hung on and said if she did have a male available from that breeding please call me. If not I was prepared to wait for another breeding. She did call around 5 weeks later and did agree to sell me Tucker! They thought Tucker might be alittle too short and alittle too laid back to be a good show dog.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Any breeder who says that ALL puppies in a litter need to be sold to show homes is delusional. 
And, the best breeders will look at the bottome line being that the puppies go to the BEST HOMES POSSIBLE, show or otherwise.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

one of the breeders I know told me that she will normally not sell to "new show homes", only to "experienced show homes" when placing the OCCASIONAL show prospect. She told me that people who are new to the world of conformation often have unrealistic goals, expectations, and ideas of how to properly raise and train a show prospect. 
Just another viewpoint.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

One of my favorite show dogs in New England's owner will not allow him to be bred to big kennels, and has it in this dog's stud contract that the pups must never be sold to huge show homes where they live in kennels. That is caring, I think.


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## MyBentley (May 5, 2009)

> I'm realizing that although I *thought* I did a very thorough job when looking for Bruno, I missed the mark somewhat (and paid as much as we would have for a really top-notch dog). We'll most likely get him a friend in a few years and I want to do better next time.


Not sure if I'm understanding your comment correctly or not, but it sounds like maybe you think puppies should be priced differently within the same litter.
Typically, all the puppies in a show bred litter will cost the same - wether they are show quality or pet quality. The same amount of money, time and carefulness regarding health clearances, food, etc. went into each and every puppy. The fact that some of the puppies have a little too short of back or not the perfect shaped head for competition doesn't make them any less healthy with great temperament and lines than the one or two deemed "show quality".


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

*Pet or show*

HA HA I prefer my puppies go to loving pet homes, To date I have sold one show puppy  that is after many years of turning away potential inquiries from newbies that I don't think have the best interest of the breed at heart. I have also turned down stud service for my boy...don't tell Boston that however  I am not a breeder snob, the great show home GOT a pup. I just sleep easier knowing my pups are loving companions first and foremost


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## timberwolf (Apr 1, 2009)

Arcane, if only the breeders in the world - no matter what the breed - cared like you do!!!


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

I agree with Heather-I prefer good pet homes for the most part! I have placed show puppies with friends who show and who have a small number of dogs, but that is about it. Interestingly enough, the one time I placed a show puppy with someone I did not personally know, she ended up becoming a good friend  Her girl became a champion and an OD, as well.

Pet people love their dogs no matter what.


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

MyBentley said:


> Not sure if I'm understanding your comment correctly or not, but it sounds like maybe you think puppies should be priced differently within the same litter.
> Typically, all the puppies in a show bred litter will cost the same - wether they are show quality or pet quality. The same amount of money, time and carefulness regarding health clearances, food, etc. went into each and every puppy. The fact that some of the puppies have a little too short of back or not the perfect shaped head for competition doesn't make them any less healthy with great temperament and lines than the one or two deemed "show quality".


The thought has occurred to me that a show/performance puppy going into a home that is going to show it should be priced less than a pet puppy - for the very simple reason that that owner is going to spend THOUSANDS of dollars training and campaigning that dog which only goes back to further the breeder's program...but I'll never be a breeder (nor emperor of the free world) so it'll remain a thought.

Erica


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

MyBentley said:


> Not sure if I'm understanding your comment correctly or not, but it sounds like maybe you think puppies should be priced differently within the same litter.
> Typically, all the puppies in a show bred litter will cost the same - wether they are show quality or pet quality. The same amount of money, time and carefulness regarding health clearances, food, etc. went into each and every puppy. The fact that some of the puppies have a little too short of back or not the perfect shaped head for competition doesn't make them any less healthy with great temperament and lines than the one or two deemed "show quality".


I've not seen this - usually, there _is _a difference in price - less for a puppy sold as a pet, even from a "show bred" litter. The pet will be sold on limited registration, and expected to be altered.


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

MurphyTeller said:


> The thought has occurred to me that a show/performance puppy going into a home that is going to show it should be priced less than a pet puppy - for the very simple reason that that owner is going to spend THOUSANDS of dollars training and campaigning that dog which only goes back to further the breeder's program...but I'll never be a breeder (nor emperor of the free world) so it'll remain a thought.
> 
> Erica


I think that is an interesting idea! I know someone who got a performance pup and was giving a discount for agreeing to show her in certain venues.


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## Ardeagold (Feb 26, 2007)

> I've not seen this - usually, there is a difference in price - less for a puppy sold as a pet, even from a "show bred" litter. The pet will be sold on limited registration, and expected to be altered.


I'm with MyBentley on this one. Of course I haven't been involved with reputable show breeders of Goldens, but with Newfs, the price is the same. In fact, buyers are warned away from those who price pups higher for color or show quality.

The prices are pretty uniform across the board, even for the offspring of "top" dogs.

But, as I said, this only applies to the reputable breeders. Others...well...it's all about the money.


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## MyBentley (May 5, 2009)

Ardeagold said:


> I'm with MyBentley on this one. Of course I haven't been involved with reputable show breeders of Goldens, but with Newfs, the price is the same. In fact, buyers are warned away from those who price pups higher for color or show quality.
> 
> The prices are pretty uniform across the board, even for the offspring of "top" dogs.
> 
> But, as I said, this only applies to the reputable breeders. Others...well...it's all about the money.


You say your experience is with Newfs. Likewise, my knowledge base isn't from goldens, but from my searching a couple of years ago in my area of the country for a pet quality lab from a show bred litter. I paid what others paid for puppies from the same litter. The sire was a champion and well-pointed; great grandfather was one of best know in recent lab history; great disposition; but my girl's a little too long to show well. Everything, time and money wise, was put in equally to each puppy in the litter; so I didn't expect any different price.

On a side note, Bentley, my golden, we semi-rescued from an unplanned litter on a farm. Price was token, and extremely low, which is what I would expect from a litter which was purebred but with no health clearances, no thought to disposition or conformation, and a number of health issues we've had to deal through the years.

We love them both the same.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

Pointgold said:


> I've not seen this - usually, there _is _a difference in price - less for a puppy sold as a pet, even from a "show bred" litter. The pet will be sold on limited registration, and expected to be altered.


That has been my experience as well.


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## khoch4 (Apr 15, 2009)

Tahnee GR said:


> I agree with Heather-I prefer good pet homes for the most part! I have placed show puppies with friends who show and who have a small number of dogs, but that is about it. Interestingly enough, the one time I placed a show puppy with someone I did not personally know, she ended up becoming a good friend  Her girl became a champion and an OD, as well.
> 
> Pet people love their dogs no matter what.


See, I just kind of assumed before I knew anything about anything - that really good breeders would probably be happier having their dogs go to good pet homes than to show homes where they might just end up breeding them indiscriminately. I was really surprised when I found out some would ONLY sell to show homes. 

I think I get it now. I was up way too late last night pondering this stuff


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

I have never paid more for a show puppy 
and there is no difference in price for the puppies that I sell 

I can't guarantee any puppy will be a show puppy 
they are all sold as show potential 
it doesn't cost me more to breed or raise a show puppy vs. a pet puppy and as such they cost the same... 

None of my friends in either flat coats or goldens have different pricing for show vs. pet puppies

I to prefer my puppies in great pet homes than show homes.... I will send a pup to a show home but it has to be someone that I know. 
s


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

I should add that while my experience is that most breeders charge more for show potential puppies, and warrant them for more things than for their pet puppies, I long ago gave up on that. Everyone is sold as a pet, with a pet warranty, so if that show potential puppy does not turn out, well, they paid for a pet and got a pet. Much easier that way.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

I will start off with my standard reply. Breeders are no different than any other group you will accross in life. You will find all kinds. As others have said any breeder who sells every pup as a "show" pup is delusional in my humble opinion. 
Now for another look at some of what has been discussed in this thread. In my limited breeding all pups in a litter were sold for the same price. If one was sold on "full registration" there was no difference in price. Now here is where people could "reduce" the price. In all contracts I offer a rebate upon proof of spaying. I also offer rebates for certain AKC titles so if I was fortunate enough to find a good home and they were willing to show/compete with their pup, I was willing to give back money. I also know of breeders who offer rebates for doing clearances on the pups, helps the breeder track more of the pups they produce.


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## Emma&Tilly (May 15, 2005)

I don't believe that in this country that puppies from the same litter are sold at different prices...I really don't get why it is an acceptable practice to charge more money for show POTENTIAL puppy than other puppies within that same litter. I think Heather explained it to me in another thread but I still don't quite understand what the reasoning for the extra cost was...I would hope the main aim of a good breeder would be to ensure a wonderful loving home, not pricing up puppies based on what they hope they will become.


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

the guarantee most often is different --show puppies must conform to many more stipulations than a pet pup - size,teeth, etc etc....many of these minor faults do DQ a pup from being a show/breeding potential pup...I do charge a bit more for my show pups but not what some people are asking....I myself prefer purchasing @ pet price with a pup or service back. Then if the pup doesn't turn out, I have paid pet price and I am not out a huge cash outlay.


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## Emma&Tilly (May 15, 2005)

arcane said:


> the guarantee most often is different --show puppies must conform to many more stipulations than a pet pup - size,teeth, etc etc....many of these minor faults do DQ a pup from being a show/breeding potential pup...I do charge a bit more for my show pups but not what some people are asking....I myself prefer purchasing @ pet price with a pup or service back. Then if the pup doesn't turn out, I have paid pet price and I am not out a huge cash outlay.


So because there is a difference in the 'guarantee' that means that if I bought a 'show' puppy and some of the 'stipulations' didn't pan out (say the dogs teeth were not correct) then I could ask for money back...so it is therefore necessary to charge more in the first place?? I'm glad we don't do things like that over here...showing dogs is much more of an enjoyable hobby and if your dog isn't quite what you had hoped and dreamed of in the show ring you are still left with an amazing companion...not left with a bitter feeling and requesting a financial reimbursement for what could of been!


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

Emma&Tilly said:


> So because there is a difference in the 'guarantee' that means that if I bought a 'show' puppy and some of the 'stipulations' didn't pan out (say the dogs teeth were not correct) then I could ask for money back...so it is therefore necessary to charge more in the first place?? I'm glad we don't do things like that over here...showing dogs is much more of an enjoyable hobby and if your dog isn't quite what you had hoped and dreamed of in the show ring you are still left with an amazing companion...not left with a bitter feeling and requesting a financial reimbursement for what could of been!


there are a few different ways breeders approach the sale of a show puppy. Preferable I think is pet price and a pup or service back. This way the purchaser is paying for a pet and should something not pan out then you are not out the increased outlay. If I had sold for a show price, and something didn't work out then I would refund back to pet price. There should be no bitterness, life happens!


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## Emma&Tilly (May 15, 2005)

Forgive me for being slow today but what does a 'pup or service back' mean? You would be offered another pup?


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

as my posts above may conflict ...let me clarify ...if the person did not want to agree to a pup or service back then the show price would be slightly higher. Then if something didn't pan out for whatever reason, the purchaser would be refunded back to pet price. Really each person/ situation is different. My show puppies are priced at what many breeders are selling pets for.


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

Emma&Tilly said:


> Forgive me for being slow today but what does a 'pup or service back' mean? You would be offered another pup?


In a show bitch a "puppy back" means I would receive a puppy from one of the bitches litters. In the case of a dog pup, a stud service is owed back to me following completion of clearances. 

I purchased my Boston for pet price and I owe his breeder a stud service back, at some point in his life, She may or may not use this, but her option is there.


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## Emma&Tilly (May 15, 2005)

ah I see! Thanks for clarifying!


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