# Thoughts on Sunrise Goldens in Hemet, CA - Southern CA.



## jmk2888 (May 24, 2017)

Hello All,

Have anybody had any experience with Sunrise Goldens in Hemet, CA ?

Many Thanks.....


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Not your best bet- their girl Sadie has had at least two litters with no apparent clearances save patellas which are not even Golden required- Orthopedic Foundation for Animals So much for the big bold 
"We follow the Code of Ethics "on the home page...not....and for me, once I uncover one lie, I figure it's all lies. And it is a lie that they follow the CoE.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

jmk2888 said:


> Hello All,
> 
> Have anybody had any experience with Sunrise Goldens in Hemet, CA ?
> 
> Many Thanks.....


They are not good at all. Missing multiple health certifications on every single beeding dog. 

What troubles me the most is that there is a very serious ethics issue with this breeder. If you slap the Proudly follows the GRCA Code of Ethics on your website and every litter is falling well short of the ethical standard you are using to draw in buyers, well that is grossly wrong. 

IMHO I don't give people who advertise lies any of my time or money.

At the top is the health certifications of my girl to show you what a dog with full certifications would look like. Below that is the mid-used logo and their abysmal health records. 

If you are willing to shoulder the risk. $500-$700 would be a fair price for the quality offered.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

The dam, sadie , came from another breeder of the same ilk Blessed Goldens whose pitch is that they have 4 generations of health... of course, no full clearances to back that up but they have a full wait list for 2017. OP- smart of you to do some research!


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## jmk2888 (May 24, 2017)

Thank you so much everyone for your help.

My wife and I are looking for a Female puppy in the southern California area. We do not have any children nor pets of any kind. We are not in a hurry however, I would to know to where I can find reputable breeder.


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## Sunrise Goldens (May 27, 2017)

Hi jmk2888, this is Rachelle from sunrise goldens just letting you know I already sent an email to you. Also, I would like for anyone else seeing this post that has the same question as jmk2888 to please call different breeders before making a choice(try to use the internet for sources of data rather than opinions). The best way to find a breeder that meets your expectations is to first figure out what your expectations are. 


If your looking for a puppy that may have potential show quality traits then your list of breeders to call are breeders that have entered their dogs into competitions. Please understand that some of these breeders will only breed to get the best show quality traits and not necessarily for best temperament or even to eliminate/minimize some genetic diseases. Please note I'm not saying all breeders do this but I know some breeders will breed a pair in which both male and female are carriers(or one is affected) of let's say ichthyosis as an example.



If you are just looking for a pet(most people) or family pet then your best bet is to figure out first what you are looking for. First on your list should be the the color and potential size of the dog you want. Goldens come in different sizes colors and coat types, body types. I can tell you our "Max" weighs about 95 pounds and is very tall and muscular compared to an average field retriever and even some English creams. When our dams welp a litter we can usually tell which ones are going to be similar to "Max" at around 6 weeks. Next on your list should be DNA tests and OFA certifications of the parents. While DNA tests will give you an absolute answer or a percentage of what the offspring will carry(genetic diseases, affected or carriers), OFA certifications will only give you an absolute answer on the parents and not the offspring. OFA certs are still very important because they serve as a guide of what the possible outcomes will be of the puppies, however, a superior breeding pair can always produce inferior puppies. A lot of times hip, elbow and eye problems are a result of injuries, early spay/neuter, malnutrition and other environmental situations. Also please note that OFA cardiac and ophthalmologist tests are yearly requirements for breeders in order to keep their dog current on the certifications. Dogs age at a very fast rate making the heart and eye test more crucial when the dogs are actually older. DNA and OFA Certs are of extreme importance if you are looking for a puppy to eventually breed as you are introducing a new line into the gene pool. Most puppies purchased as pets will never have DNA tested or have OFA certs since they are only pets, as a matter of fact most buyers looking for AKC puppies never actually register their puppy with AKC. Last on your list will be the breeder themselves(personality, price, process and health guarantee). You should always take the time to view a breeders website to its entirety(most will have an faq page). As you contact breeders by either phone or house/kennel visits you will get a sense of how different breeders operate. Some breeders will have a puppy application which is designed to determine if their puppies are right for your home. Some breeders will have very strict requirements for living space and time dedicated to the pup(you may be determined to be unqualified to purchase a puppy). There are breeders that keep their adults in kennels and some that let their adults roam their house. If you ever find something you don't like about a breeder it is always a good idea to ask more questions or move on to another, keep in mind the puppy you purchase will be yours through its entire life so the process your put through by the breeder to purchase your puppy should be exciting and not a negative event.


To anyone reading this, I hope you have found this information helpful and of course there is much more data available with a google search and on this forum itself. Please make sure to research actual data and not other people's opinion. Also I apologize in advance for any spelling or grammar mistakes this post make have as I typed this up very quickly on my iPad. Thanks again and have a great Memorial weekend!


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## usually lurking (Apr 21, 2017)

double post. again.


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## usually lurking (Apr 21, 2017)

There's so much wrong with your post that I'm not even sure where to begin, but I'm going to take a stab at it



Sunrise Goldens said:


> If you are just looking for a pet(most people) or family pet then your best bet is to figure out first what you are looking for. First on your list should be the the color and potential size of the dog you want. Goldens come in different sizes colors and coat types, body types. I can tell you our "Max" weighs about 95 pounds and is very tall and muscular compared to an average field retriever and even some English creams. When our dams welp a litter we can usually tell which ones are going to be similar to "Max" at around 6 weeks. Next on your list should be DNA tests and OFA certifications of the parents. While DNA tests will give you an absolute answer or a percentage of what the offspring will carry(genetic diseases, affected or carriers), OFA certifications will only give you an absolute answer on the parents and not the offspring. OFA certs are still very important because they serve as a guide of what the possible outcomes will be of the puppies, however, a superior breeding pair can always produce inferior puppies. A lot of times hip, elbow and eye problems are a result of injuries, early spay/neuter, malnutrition and other environmental situations. Also please note that OFA cardiac and ophthalmologist tests are yearly requirements for breeders in order to keep their dog current on the certifications. Dogs age at a very fast rate making the heart and eye test more crucial when the dogs are actually older. DNA and OFA Certs are of extreme importance if you are looking for a puppy to eventually breed as you are introducing a new line into the gene pool. Most puppies purchased as pets will never have DNA tested or have OFA certs since they are only pets, as a matter of fact most buyers looking for AKC puppies never actually register their puppy with AKC. Last on your list will be the breeder themselves(personality, price, process and health guarantee). You should always take the time to view a breeders website to its entirety(most will have an faq page). As you contact breeders by either phone or house/kennel visits you will get a sense of how different breeders operate. Some breeders will have a puppy application which is designed to determine if their puppies are right for your home. Some breeders will have very strict requirements for living space and time dedicated to the pup(you may be determined to be unqualified to purchase a puppy). There are breeders that keep their adults in kennels and some that let their adults roam their house. If you ever find something you don't like about a breeder it is always a good idea to ask more questions or move on to another, keep in mind the puppy you purchase will be yours through its entire life so the process your put through by the breeder to purchase your puppy should be exciting and not a negative event


Are you aware of the Golden Retriever breed standard that specifies the proper height and weight for a Golden? Do you realize that "English Cremes" aren't actually anything other than a marketing ploy to scam people into thinking they are buying a super special dog that is nothing more than an Golden whose color is out of standard on the light side?

A pair of dogs with clear hips are SIGNIFICANTLY more likely to have puppies with normal hips than puppies from parents whose hips are not clear. Genetics 101, anyone? Injuries, etc are a possibility for any puppy from any litter, so that isn't even a valid point. Careful breeding doesn't minimize injuries, malnutrition, etc, it minimizes GENETIC risk. In doing so, you also hope to get puppies that are more hardy, more able to come back from injury, as an example. Certainly, dogs age faster than humans, and while heart eyes clearances are always important, they are just as important at a young age as they are at an older age, if you are breeding. Why? Because most reputable breeders don't breed elderly dogs! Have the eyes and heart checked when they're young BEFORE you breed them, to help minimize risk. Have them checked when they are older as an ongoing responsibility to that particular line. Most puppies that go home as pets won't be tested, you're right. But, wow. As a pet owner, I still want to minimize health risks for my dog, and out of pocket health costs, too. Why would I not choose a puppy that has the best chance of being healthy? So, OFA Certs and eye certs and heart certs ARE important to me, even though I have ZERO intention of ever breeding my dog. (Who, by the way, is AKC registered and from a reputable breeder, despite being sold to me for primarily pet purposes.) "Pet" just means that the dog's conformation isn't show ring quality, and that I'm not using him for performance purposes, either, but I can tell you that 99.9% of the population can't tell the difference between my dog and a show dog. I can guarantee you they can tell the difference between my dog and a poorly bred one, though. I don't think "pet" means what *you* think it does. 

Furthermore, yes. Some people ARE absolutely, 110% unqualified to have puppies/dogs. Are you seriously implying that breeder screening to make sure their puppies have the BEST chance of having a good life and being well cared for (which includes proper housing, training, etc) is a BAD thing? It sounds like you don't give a flying flip where your puppies go.

Frankly, I'd be terrified to buy a puppy from you, and I certainly question why you are even breeding dogs when you clearly have little understanding of genetics.


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

Sunrise Goldens said:


> If you are just looking for a pet(most people) or family pet then your best bet is to figure out first what you are looking for. First on your list should be the the color and potential size of the dog you want. Goldens come in different sizes colors and coat types, body types. I can tell you our "Max" weighs about 95 pounds and is very tall and muscular compared to an average field retriever and even some English creams. When our dams welp a litter we can usually tell which ones are going to be similar to "Max" at around 6 weeks. Next on your list should be DNA tests and OFA certifications of the parents. While DNA tests will give you an absolute answer or a percentage of what the offspring will carry(genetic diseases, affected or carriers), OFA certifications will only give you an absolute answer on the parents and not the offspring.


Hmm, size & color as primary consideration--I think not. Also, can't imagine intentionally trying to produce out of standard goldens & your understanding of clearances isn't quite right. Your response IMO isn't doing you any favors.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

"While DNA tests will give you an absolute answer or a percentage of what the offspring will carry(genetic diseases, affected or carriers), OFA certifications will only give you an absolute answer on the parents and not the offspring."Quoted from Sunrise Goldens' post.

Much in your post was completely incorrect- and I agree w SheetsSM- you did yourself no favors w that post full of inaccuracies.
The above-= DNA test will NOT give you a %age "of what the offspring will carry"- assuming you meant the %age of puppies who will have that trait- each and every egg that is fertilized has the same odds of having the trait so while a litter MAY possess carriers/affecteds / clears in a typical spread they also may all be clear or may all be carrier or all be affecteds(this depends on what the parents' status is- see Punnett Square for learning how to guess at the spread... and really, try to get a grasp on this concept).
You also say in your post that hearts/eyes need to be redone yearly- hearts should be done after 12 mo by a cardiologist. Eyes should be done yearly. 
You state on your site you follow the GRCA Code of Ethics. Why do you state this when you do not? Lying about anything leads one to believe everything is a lie.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

usually lurking said:


> There's so much wrong with your post that I'm not even sure where to begin, but I'm going to take a stab at it
> 
> 
> 
> I can guarantee you they can tell the difference between my dog and a poorly bred one, though. I don't think "pet" means what *you* think it does.


I absolutely LOVE this statement- "PET" is the most important job. And I agree w you- think this breeder's concept of 'pet' is not what I think 'pet' is either.


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## usually lurking (Apr 21, 2017)

All too frequently, I feel like that word is used to justify poorly bred dogs and poor breeding practices. It's infuriating.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

I sent you a PM. You'll want to check it and move on the information quickly if your interested.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

To Sunrise.... 
I am one of those "PET" people. I will never show my dog in conformation but certainly enjoy that my dog could compete. 
I love my pet and grateful the breeder took the time to find the right stud for her female. 

I appreciate the breeder competes in different venues to verify the dog can do the job it was bred for.

I love the fact I can look back 30+ yrs of history on my dog showing no dogs with hip or elbow dysplasia. Do I think this guarantees immunity of the problem, no but certainly have a better chance than without this history.

I love knowing the chances of coming home and finding my pup died from SAS are slim as the history also tells me the chances are slim.

I love that my pup isn't going to be 100 lbs! It's a comfort to know my girl will be pretty close to the breed standard.

I took my PET to a health clinic provided at a show yesterday to get clearances on heart and eyes. When she is two I will also get hips and elbows certified. I'm just a pet person but want to help my breeder with her pursuit to breed sound puppies according to the GR CoE.

AND I loved walking through the venue where other breeders asked what lines my dog came from. I'm biased but she is a looker! One even offered grooming advice... the fuzzy ears were a give away that help was needed 

I think you under estimate what PET people want.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

puddles everywhere said:


> To Sunrise....
> I am one of those "PET" people. I will never show my dog in conformation but certainly enjoy that my dog could compete.
> 
> *I don't know how to insert comments in your quote- but---Sunrise doesn't compete either in any competitive venue.
> ...


PET is the most important job there is. PETS deserve to have a health screened pedigree, well chosen sire and dam, and proper raising. PETS deserve as much investment by the breeder as any show prospect does.


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## usually lurking (Apr 21, 2017)

From what I can discern, Sunrise Goldens sees pet as a "look," not a job. Therein lies the problem.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Wow, was that an odd attempted *damage control* post.:new (15):

I love how this breeder is trying to discredit the posters here by implying everything that was posted is opinion. 
Umm, no quite a bit of it was fact. I in fact posted annotated screenshots form OFA of the dogs in her program. Waxing poetic about health certificatations while just a couple of posts above clearly shows the deficiencies in a program is an odd choice. 

I do agree though there are a lot of great resources online here are a few for anyone to start with: 

Here is the Golden Retriever Club of America Code of Ethics (what this breeder claims to do right on their site, but does not):https://www.grca.org/about-the-breed/grca-code-of-ethics/
The tests required to earn the Canine Health Information Center's CHIC certification, the gold standard for Goldens, which if a breeder is following the GRCA CoE will have: Canine Health Information Center: CHIC Information
A few more good resources from the GRCA:
https://www.grca.org/about-the-breed/health-research/health-screenings-for-the-parents-of-a-litter/
https://www.grca.org/about-the-bree...r-obtaining-a-healthy-golden-retriever-puppy/
https://www.grca.org/find-a-golden/more-topics-before-you-buy/english-cream-golden-retrievers/
https://www.grca.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/FindingGoldenPuppyFlyerPDF.pdf

Also below are a few infographics I compiled from trusted online resources. 

Sadly, this person is not doing what they should or even what they claim. It is really not that hard. Either stop making untrue claims or do all the indicated tests claimed. I'd recommend doing he testing that way red herring damage control posts would not be needed.


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