# Star student turned CGC flunk out...feeling discouraged...



## phillypup (Apr 6, 2020)

I guess I'm just looking for some encouragement and to commiserate a little.

I've had Chester since he was 3 months old. I worked really hard to find an ethical breeder, and emphasized I wanted a dog that was biddable above all else. He is ultimately from conformation lines, and not bred for obedience exclusively, but he is smart and was _such _a good student.

I started lessons at 12 weeks with our local dog club. He was the star pupil. Smart, got things right away, consistent. Had other people talking about how great he was and how they wish _their dog_ was this obedient. Instructor said he had drive and great attention. He's been in classes once to twice a week ever since, and we work together consistently. I try to do something with him every day.

Chester is now 9 months old. We're in the advanced class at our dog club. He's still fairly good in class, although he's definitely not as stand out as he was before.

I thought _for sure_ we had CGC in the bag. But we've failed it. Twice. Again today. This time, it was because he couldn't go the three minutes without whining while I walked away. In our CGC training class he NEVER had any problem with that, he was one of the most calm and collected dogs during training. He also jumps all the time now, he probably would've failed earlier but the instructor was being generous. I think the whining was just what finally made her go...ok, no.

I just...I know Goldens are slow to mature or whatever, but I'm still so discouraged and frustrated. He's not a dog that gets left at home in a crate all day. There's always someone there, or he goes to daycare. On my days off we go on hikes, to swim, around in the car, on adventures. I work on his behavior on walks, in training sessions...he gets exercised, so I guess what I'm trying to say is his disobedience isn't from lack of attention or excess energy.

Is this adolescence? I wanted to compete in Obedience and I thought we were on our way to being able to enter the novice class...but maybe he's just not good enough for that, or I'm not, or I don't know. Do you all have any encouraging stories about your hellion puppies that became excellent obedience dogs? Feeling so discouraged (and $85 poorer with no CGC title to show for it, lol).


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## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

Here's your reassurance... The dog in my avatar? The one with all the ribbons? Totally out of control until he was at least three years old (even though he was in manners and obedience classes from puppyhood on). He was 9 (years!) when I got his CGC. BUT... I stuck with it. He was an awesome agility dog, and to date he's the only one of my dogs to earn a perfect 100 score in Rally. This is him at his first Excellent Rally run (the one he got the perfect score for) when he was almost 11 years old - you can tell he is almost quivering with the effort to remain under control. The dog at the end of the video was my boy Guinness... he was dog reactive and very distractable. He was also older when we earned his CGC and he eventually earned his Rally Excellent title (Quite an accomplishment for a dog reactive dog, and although he never got a perfect score, all his scores were first places with scores in the high 90s).

I have a six year old who is just now starting a CGC class and I have little hope that he will pass... at least not his first test (he has challenges similar to your dog... anxious about being left and a tendency to jump on people, especially when he's anxious). My girl Moxie (who is 10) is working on her Rally Masters and Rally Advanced Excellent titles right now (the highest level I've yet achieved with any of my dogs)... but she doesn't yet have her CGC (mostly because I haven't made time to take the test... but still). 

Your boy is still very young... right in the early throes of adolescence. There is nothing that says he has to get his CGC right now. If you are feeling frustrated, maybe take a break and move on to something else for awhile. If you think you might want to do competitive obedience, maybe give that a try (having a CGC is not a prerequisite - unless your training facility is choosing to make it one). Or try Rally, which will give you some of the foundations you'll need for OB but without the rigidity and need for precision that OB requires. Or do something just for fun with him - like nose work or a trick dog class. I think you'll likely benefit from just taking a bit of a step back and finding something FUN to do with your dog that allows him to work through what will be a pretty challenging time in both your lives. As long as you keep up with his manners and such, you can always revisit the CGC when he has a bit more confidence and maturity...


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## PalouseDogs (Aug 14, 2013)

At 9 months, most dogs are hellions. It's probably easier to get a CGC at 4 months than 9 months. Sign him up for that Novice Obedience class and keep at it. I predict he'll be the class star again in another year or so.


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## ceegee (Mar 26, 2015)

Slow down. He's a baby. At that age most dogs don't have the mental maturity to cope with the pressure of tests and competition. If he's failed CGC twice, it's because he's not ready yet. That doesn't mean he'll never be ready. It just means he's still a baby and needs time to mature mentally.

Doing stuff in class or at home and doing it in test/trial conditions are two completely different things. In class, it's fun, the human element of the partnership (you) is more relaxed, there's no pressure, you're both there to learn. In a test or trial, there's much more pressure. You're probably nervous or at least a bit strained (especially the second time with the CGC) and he'll have picked up on that. If he's a sensitive dog (and most biddable dogs are extremely sensitive to their handlers' emotions), he may have felt your frustration or disappointment, and have reacted to that. Or maybe it's simply that you haven't yet proofed your training in enough different places (superstore car parks, shopping malls, public parks, etc.) where there are different types of distractions.

I have the most amazing dog, bred from performance lines. He's wonderful at everything I ask him to do and has always been something of a prodigy. But he's also extremely sensitive to my reactions. Early in our competitive agility career, we didn't perform in championships to the level that we performed in training, and I quickly realized that the problem wasn't the dog or the training, it was me. I'm a competitive person and like to do well in this type of event, and I was projecting that stress onto my dog. He just wasn't able to perform well under those conditions - it made him anxious, largely because he could feel my frustration when things didn't go well. He didn't understand why I wasn't enjoying myself. And so I worked on my own attitude. After that, all tests and trials, regardless of what was at stake, became games. It had to be fun for him, and it was only fun for him if I enjoyed it too. So I decided to enjoy everything, no matter what the outcome. NQs are rewarded in exactly the same way as Qs. I never correct mistakes in the ring - I simply continue as if the off-course or whatever was what I wanted. I'm encouraging and always thrilled with our runs, mistakes or not. We always have a celebration when we come out of the ring. It's made a tremendous difference. The year after our failed championship bid, we won our class at both the provincial and the national championships.

If I've learned one thing in my many decades of competing in agility, it's that me and my dog are a partnership and we both play a role in what happens. If my dog does something weird or behaves differently in the ring than he does in practice, I never blame him. Instead, I look at what I might have done wrong or differently - and there's nearly always something. We've become a much better team as a result of my attitude adjustment and we're both a lot happier.

You can't write off a 9-month-old dog as "not good enough". He's a baby. Take your time with him, don't project unfair expectations onto him, and work on your own role in the partnership, especially your emotional attitude to "success" and "failure". I guarantee that you'll see a difference.

Best of luck! Let us know how it goes.


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## phillypup (Apr 6, 2020)

Thank you for the perspective, all. The dog club I go to just has a lot of _really_ experienced handlers, I suppose, so I'm surrounded by puppies Chester started with in puppy pre-K that already have their CGC...CGCA...the GSP who's the exact same age as him is running circles around him in terms of titles. The rescue dog that was an absolute reactive nightmare in puppy pre-K is now an angel with a CGC title.

Unfortunately I'm a bit of a tiger mom, can you tell? I was so looking forward to emailing his breeder and going: look he has a CGC title, and he's so young! Anyway, poor Chester, I think he can tell I'm upset because he keeps bringing me socks. 

I think we'll put a pause on the CGC until he's 16-18 months, and then we'll see where he is.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Eh.... CGC is not that much fun with a normal golden retriever pup. I would not base everything on how your dog does whatever for CGC.

I have never had a dog who could get a CGC on them - as a young dog.  And I've never cared one way or another about it. 

Go for rally and beginner novice. Both are going to be a lot more fun with a golden retriever.


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

I think if you try before adolescence a CGC is more obtainable. During adolescence, I bet the majority have more trouble. Your dog sounds like a normal adolescent Golden to me. My Golden, Logan, is lively and full of personality. In our obedience class the trainer said there are soft dogs and then there are dogs like Logan. She then whispered, "I think your kind of dog is much more fun."

Enjoy your sweet dog and try not to be frustrated (I wish we had our CGC also. 😅) We didn't have any obedience classes available here due to COVID (although I found about 10 weeks worth in another city), so Logan missed about a year and 1/4's worth of classes. He's 23 months old now. We've been in competition obedience class for four months and the difference is night and day from when we started. We plan to take our CGC test eventually. I consider us to be on the three year plan. 😊

Try not to compare your dog to other dogs (this is real rich coming from me.) Each is a different personality and their owner/handler may have much more experience. I tend to find all the flaws in me. Logan is perfect. lol Enjoy your relationship and training journey with your dog.

Oh -- and I'm around a bunch of experienced people also -- instructors heading to the nationals with their dogs. I feel like the Keystone Cops. I'm trying to revamp my attitude, so it doesn't feel demeaning. I tend to be a perfectionist. Anyway, I totally get a lot of what you're feeling. It will get better. Hold out hope. 😃


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## Aeacus (Sep 1, 2021)

I don't have several dogs under my belt to showcase experience with dogs, but what i do have, is 3.5 month old male pup, and reading your initial post, i spotted one area which needs more training.

Namely, alone training, which showed up here:



phillypup said:


> This time, it was because he couldn't go the three minutes without whining while I walked away.


And especially since:



phillypup said:


> He's not a dog that gets left at home in a crate all day. There's always someone there, or he goes to daycare.


Looks like there is always someone with him and thus, he has never got alone training. And you'll fail in competitions if your dog can't stay quiet when you're not around him.

We have done lots of alone training, not because we keep our pup locked up all day. No, not at all. But because for the fluke of circumstances, where we can't take him with us and we have to leave him home, alone.
At current moment, our little pup can handle being alone in the home, inside his pen, for several hours, without even a beep out of him. He knows that we will let him out and he doesn't need to be vocal to be let out. Also, most of the times, he is sleeping, when alone. We do put some toys with him, in the pen, when he gets bored, but he prefers to play with us more than with his toys.

So, do more alone training. Since you'll never know when you have to leave your dog alone, even for 30mins. And without alone training, dogs get separation anxiety, which springs another set of issues.



phillypup said:


> In our CGC training class he NEVER had any problem with that, he was one of the most calm and collected dogs during training.


Change of scenery does have an effect on the dog. Just because he did well in known/familiar setting, doesn't mean he will do the same everywhere else.



phillypup said:


> He also jumps all the time now


Normal teen behavior. Challenging your leadership and testing out how far he can push you.


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## cwag (Apr 25, 2017)

Rukie is a 3 time CGC failure, or more likely I am. Although of all the 3 classes of 10 or more dogs each I think there were only two who passed. He was also in classes non-stop for 2 years. He's always been a more mellow good dog and he's passed each part of the test but never all 10 at the same time.  Now that he is 4 and finally heeling better I am thinking about trying one more time. I really wanted to take him to nursing homes but I don't think he will pass the therapy dog test if he can't get CGC. I need to take him to Lowes or Tractor Supply and work a little more on not getting over excited for greetings. He doesn't jump but he pulls toward people who are talking to him. There has been a lot of maturing between ages 3 and 4. 
Keep trying, you'll get there.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Aeacus said:


> Looks like there is always someone with him and thus, he has never got alone training. And you'll fail in competitions if your dog can't stay quiet when you're not around him.


Well, good news is that if anyone is competing in actual AKC obedience competition.... they do not have to leave their dogs.  

CGC requires the owner hand the leash to somebody else and go walking out of the room/out of sight. 

The dog can stand around like a blob during this portion of the test, but must not bark, whine, pace - or exhibit anxiety over the owner leaving them behind. 

Currently CGC is asking dogs to do something that dogs competing in regular obedience , including highest levels, do not have to do.


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## Anon-2130948gsoni (Apr 12, 2014)

One of the wisest things I ever heard from a trainer was, “work with the dog you have.” Putting all these “tiger mom” expectations on a nine-month-old ball of energy and raging hormones is asking much too much of him and of you. It needs to be fun and if your training environment is too intense for it to be fun….or your competitive drive is too intense for it to be fun…maybe find another training environment and maybe take up kick boxing or something else for you? 

I could have gotten a CGC with Griffey at four months, no problem. At six months his competitiveness kicked in…with other male dogs. It’s never quite gone away, although I have trained it enough to be manageable. But a CGC wouldn’t happen because of needing to calmly meet other dogs. 

But he is who he is and he’s a gorgeous, snuggly, sensitive, pillow humping bonehead and I adore him. And I wouldn’t trade him for the most titled dog on earth.

I hope you can find a way to relax and enjoy your boy. This is a challenging age, because their brains have been highjacked by their gonads, but it’s also a joyful age. They’re at their peak of enthusiasm and goofiness and we can all use more of both in our lives, right?


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## phillypup (Apr 6, 2020)

Aeacus said:


> I don't have several dogs under my belt to showcase experience with dogs, but what i do have, is 3.5 month old male pup, and reading your initial post, i spotted one area which needs more training.
> 
> Namely, alone training, which showed up here:
> 
> ...


Thank you that's a good reminder  I hope I haven't given the impression that he's never alone. He's crate trained and does do well on his own, and is left in his crate for 1-2 hours at a time. I just don't leave him home _all day_ alone in a crate, which is what I was trying to convey. That it's not that he isn't getting a variety of new experiences, stimulation, and exercise, which i think is a common reason for not doing well in obedience.

It actually was very much a surprise this time around that _this_ was the thing he failed. I was so worried about him greeting other people, and I knew he used to do so well with being left with others for that portion of the CGC test...but it seems that in the intervening two months since the last time we attempted to CGC, he's gotten more anxious about me leaving, which I suppose is due to adolescence. It's also not like he was screaming the entire time lol, he just was whining like an oversized mosquito the whole time


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## phillypup (Apr 6, 2020)

Megora said:


> Well, good news is that if anyone is competing in actual AKC obedience competition.... they do not have to leave their dogs.
> 
> CGC requires the owner hand the leash to somebody else and go walking out of the room/out of sight.
> 
> ...


Thank you. The reminder that the CGC is NOT competition obedience has been particularly encouraging. He is such a driven dog. And when he's on he's on, and all about me. But when he's off...he's rolling on the floor and trying to steal things out of purses. And chilling is not his specialty.


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## Eclipse (Apr 21, 2014)

I had my fair share of issues to work through with my agility Golden when she was young. I was told point blank that I should never compete with her.

Fast forward a handful of years and a lot of growth between the two of us.

Penny has one MACH and two PACHs. She just earned PACH2 at the GRCA National this week in Florida and earned Excellence in Agility/High in Trial Preferred at the National.

Success has peaks and valleys - I've found this statement applies pretty well to dog sports.

Also - I didn't go for Penny's CGC until she was 3 years old.


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## 1oldparson (Mar 5, 2013)

Your original post brought back memories. Ginger will be 9 in a couple of months. She’s had more training than all of the other dogs I’ve had combined. I’m old and most dogs I’ve known were never trained. Ginger did great in puppy pre-school, basic and, up to the very last class in medium. Starting with that last class, she turned into a typical teenager who did everything except roll her eyes at me when I told her to do something (and maybe she did when my back was turned). We dropped out of advanced because she just kind of stalled and I couldn’t make any progress. We did get a private trainer who was able to get her to the next level. Aside from a few quirks, at 9 she is an awesome sweet companion. So, as a dad of 3 humans whose youngest turns 40 this year, teenagers - furry or not - aren’t the most obedient. It’s normal. Don’t give up.


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## 1oldparson (Mar 5, 2013)

Oops, old guy error


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## Piper_the_goldenpuppy (Aug 26, 2016)

Puppies also go through a second fear period which happens in adolescence (6-14 months) that takes people by surprise but is totally normal, and is probably part of what Chester is experiencing. 

This age is the hardest for Goldens IMO. They are teens. They have regressions, you might see random fears pop out, they challenge authority, and lose impulse control. They are needy and then ignore you. They all start jumping. And, its basically impossible for them to be tired. They need a lot of support. 

You might try waiting a while, but the next time you go for the test--consider an hour or two of running play (retrieving..not walking) right beforehand if you haven't done that already. 

This just highlights an opportunity for focus-- for you to increase your bond with your dog, and really help shape his personality and set him up for success.


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## OKLAGoldensLover (Jul 13, 2020)

Don't get discouraged. My 9 month old who passed STARR Puppy class 4 weeks ago and has been the top dog in the beginners class for 4 weeks decided he was going to be the BEAST at his week 5 class last night. He was spinning on the floor, chewing his lead, leaping into the air...you name it and Murphy was doing it. The instructor had the class take a break because of Murphy and as soon as we got out the door he spun high, into the air and swallowed a moth. He was so proud. When we all got back in, he continued to do act up. I was so worn out and so discouraged but the leader came to me and said, he's a puppy and bored. Don't get discouraged or mad because than Murphy wins. This morning I was training and he was perfect. Of course. Go figure.


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## Taz Monkey (Feb 25, 2007)

9 months is terrible age 😂 If I had tried to get Juneau to pass her CGC at 9 months, she would have stared right at me while purposely not doing a thing I asked. She got hers on her 15 months birthday, after our CGC classes just came back into session due to being canceled because of Covid. She rocked it. But at 9 months, she definitely would not have.


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## forgold (Feb 29, 2020)

phillypup said:


> Thank you that's a good reminder ….
> I hope I haven't given the impression that he's never alone. He's crate trained and does do well on his own, and is left in his crate for 1-2 hours at a time. I just don't leave him home _all day_ alone in a crate,
> …he just was whining like an oversized mosquito the whole time


Oversized Mosquito? Like your analogy! Now… consider yourself blessed….he didn’t bite Tee hee. As for the CGC — bound to be feel different to both you & your dog, it IS different. Plus…Goldens are so beautiful & popular & remembered so fondly afterwards… makes us hard on ourselves / makes us unrealistic & so forth. 

As for leaving dear dog alone _all day (_gasp_)… _he is older now, right? YOU have a life to live. Not to worry! Except in so far as he may need to be taken out to pee & poop. Some transitions are a big step up for some dogs & some people. And not others. So, yes indeed, we have to train the dog that we have! I do think you should consider a different class—say Novice obedience or agility. Different time, new dogs, new tasks, etc. Covid is making life much more difficult for us and likely for our dogs too.


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## Ivyacres (Jun 3, 2011)

Welcome to the 'adolescent stage'! It can be brief or last for a couple of years. 
Enjoy your boy and try not to compare him to others. He's unique and perfect (even when he's misbehaving). 
Good luck with the CGC test.


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

CGC has one of the hardest out of sight exercises. Just keep working at it. You have a teenager pushing his limits right now. I am a CGC evaluator and that 3 minute supervised seperation is the most failed exercise in the test. Especially for the dogs between 9 -15 months. Out of the 4 dogs I've put a CGC on, only one was within that age range. She is an extraordinarily calm dog. I've done 2 of them around 2 years old. The youngest was around 6 months old. (when you get it that young, they recommend retesting after 1 year old) He has since earned CGCA and CGCU. I was a pretty experienced trainer when that pup came along.  You still have a very real possibility of doing well in obedience. Most obedience dogs I see don't have a CGC.


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## phillypup (Apr 6, 2020)

Abeille said:


> CGC has one of the hardest out of sight exercises. Just keep working at it. You have a teenager pushing his limits right now. I am a CGC evaluator and that 3 minute supervised seperation is the most failed exercise in the test. Especially for the dogs between 9 -15 months. Out of the 4 dogs I've put a CGC on, only one was within that age range. She is an extraordinarily calm dog. I've done 2 of them around 2 years old. The youngest was around 6 months old. (when you get it that young, they recommend retesting after 1 year old) He has since earned CGCA and CGCU. I was a pretty experienced trainer when that pup came along.  You still have a very real possibility of doing well in obedience. Most obedience dogs I see don't have a CGC.


Thank you, this is encouraging. I suppose I also set myself up for the expectation that, well, he's a _golden_ so he's so happy and _fine_ with everyone. We didn't really practice the separation, because he's never demonstrated any wariness towards strangers. Also my CGC evaluator didn't pay any attention to him or soothe him, which from what I understand they can do a little of. (That being said, I'm afraid that if she had paid attention to him he would've just stared jumping all over her ).

We've begun rally and we're retaking our "advanced" manners class again. Chester is also certainly not a _calm_ dog, in fact, he's quite high energy and has a ton of drive. This fits us and our lifestyle, and I can only hope will serve us when it comes time to do competition obedience.


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

phillypup said:


> Thank you, this is encouraging. I suppose I also set myself up for the expectation that, well, he's a _golden_ so he's so happy and _fine_ with everyone. We didn't really practice the separation, because he's never demonstrated any wariness towards strangers. Also my CGC evaluator didn't pay any attention to him or soothe him, which from what I understand they can do a little of. (That being said, I'm afraid that if she had paid attention to him he would've just stared jumping all over her ).
> 
> We've begun rally and we're retaking our "advanced" manners class again. Chester is also certainly not a _calm_ dog, in fact, he's quite high energy and has a ton of drive. This fits us and our lifestyle, and I can only hope will serve us when it comes time to do competition obedience.


It sounds like your main goal will be channeling that energy for good! It can be done! Have fun with him!


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## sevans (Jul 18, 2021)

pawsnpaca said:


> Here's your reassurance... The dog in my avatar? The one with all the ribbons? Totally out of control until he was at least three years old (even though he was in manners and obedience classes from puppyhood on). He was 9 (years!) when I got his CGC. BUT... I stuck with it. He was an awesome agility dog, and to date he's the only one of my dogs to earn a perfect 100 score in Rally. This is him at his first Excellent Rally run (the one he got the perfect score for) when he was almost 11 years old - you can tell he is almost quivering with the effort to remain under control. The dog at the end of the video was my boy Guinness... he was dog reactive and very distractable. He was also older when we earned his CGC and he eventually earned his Rally Excellent title (Quite an accomplishment for a dog reactive dog, and although he never got a perfect score, all his scores were first places with scores in the high 90s).
> 
> I have a six year old who is just now starting a CGC class and I have little hope that he will pass... at least not his first test (he has challenges similar to your dog... anxious about being left and a tendency to jump on people, especially when he's anxious). My girl Moxie (who is 10) is working on her Rally Masters and Rally Advanced Excellent titles right now (the highest level I've yet achieved with any of my dogs)... but she doesn't yet have her CGC (mostly because I haven't made time to take the test... but still).
> 
> Your boy is still very young... right in the early throes of adolescence. There is nothing that says he has to get his CGC right now. If you are feeling frustrated, maybe take a break and move on to something else for awhile. If you think you might want to do competitive obedience, maybe give that a try (having a CGC is not a prerequisite - unless your training facility is choosing to make it one). Or try Rally, which will give you some of the foundations you'll need for OB but without the rigidity and need for precision that OB requires. Or do something just for fun with him - like nose work or a trick dog class. I think you'll likely benefit from just taking a bit of a step back and finding something FUN to do with your dog that allows him to work through what will be a pretty challenging time in both your lives. As long as you keep up with his manners and such, you can always revisit the CGC when he has a bit more confidence and maturity...


I just wanted to comment on what a kind, encouraging and knowledgeable comment this was; it is your kind of input that makes these forums such a valued resource for people like myself. We have two Goldens- a Senior (who is lovely) and who was (and is) an absolute star at everything we ever asked of him. We now have a 7 month old pup who is quite a challenge. Now that I am retired, I had such hgh hopes for doing all kinds of things with this pup but I have taken a step back as I was beginning to see (as I think you preceived from the person in the OP) that I am expecting too much. I was allowing my needs to overshadow this pup’s abilities and learning curve. He was in a puppy socialization class at 12 weeks, a puppy kindergarten class at 20 weeks and I could see that he was getting jaded. Our trainer spoke about a beginner scent class for dogs over months and he is really enjoying the change. There are practice excercises for at home and the dogs are worked alone in the class one at a time so he has a very different environment that encourages focus. I am still practicing obedience with him and making a point of taking him into all the stores that allow dogs to help him to realize that he doesn’t need to greet everyone with a slurpy kiss and a frenzy.. Anyway- thanks again!


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## MintChip (Feb 26, 2021)

phillypup said:


> I guess I'm just looking for some encouragement and to commiserate a little.
> 
> I've had Chester since he was 3 months old. I worked really hard to find an ethical breeder, and emphasized I wanted a dog that was biddable above all else. He is ultimately from conformation lines, and not bred for obedience exclusively, but he is smart and was _such _a good student.
> 
> ...


I feel this so much. Never taken so many classes with a dog before lol. And then we met a beautiful 4 year old golden who was so unaffected. Or that nosework trainer who suggested he do therapy work instead as he ignored the containers. I love that my dog is so social-having formerly had a whip smart but nonaggressive reactive dog before. But sometimes - can we just do a simple heel during this walk - without saying hello to everyone? 

Hoping it's just an adolescence thing too. I see glimmers of what could be but we do have frustrating days.


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