# Help with 1-yo. pup with recent testosterone issues!



## Pooklook (Mar 10, 2014)

Hi, my pup Polar just turned 1 year on Dec. 27, and since recently his personality has changed drastically (I believe/hope its just his testosterone going off the charts causing this).
He used to be very playful with almost every dog -loves the rough-housing wrestling kind of play. 
He has always had however a short-fuse when large-dominant dogs try to dominate him -he'll show them his fierce side and make them back off.
Lately he'll approach every dog with chest+tail up, sometimes he'll have his back hairs all rise, he won't play with his old buddies as much anymore -he'll ignore them or send them off.
The worst is that he seems to be like a magnet for certain males that just want to get on his face and fight him -tho he seems to be the cause of it all since some of these dogs were just playing with others before they even noticed him. It has come too close to a nasty full-on fight to my liking a couple times.
He is the sweetest cutest pup with people and he never humps or shows aggression towards dogs -recently he's more into marking rather than socializing and playing with dogs.
So (sorry for the long story) the fighting has me worried. Assuming is hormonal, I'm considering getting him fixed now rather than as originally intended (after he's 2y).
Do you wise folks have had experiences like mine and did neutering solved/helped reduce his testosterone enough to curve that aggression/fight mode?
Has anybody heard of Zeuterin? Is this safe and effective? Will it also address the behavior issues the same/better or less effectively that castration?
Feedback and advise will be much appreciated. Thanks!


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Bumping up


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

This is totally my personal opinion, but I don't like the chemical castration. It's injecting something toxic into the dog. I just don't trust that's safe, and there is no need to do that when surgery is available. If you are going to neuter, have the surgery done properly.

You might consider getting a trainer involved to see if you can work through these behaviors. There is no guarantee that neutering would change the way he's behaving with other dogs, but there are always training options for dealing with issues.


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## Pooklook (Mar 10, 2014)

thanks mylissyk,
You know, you make a good point since who knows what this substance they inject could possibly cause (if anything) down the road.
I guess eventho they claim to be FDA approved it seems to be fairly new, not a proven method like with surgery.
So you think his behaviors are a training issue rather than really just a hormonal stage kind of thing that he'll grow out of?


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## gold4me (Mar 12, 2006)

It might be worth having a behaviorist evaluate his behavior to see what they think. My boy was not neutered until 4 years old and while he never was a dominate male if another dog went after him he definitely stood up for himself. After he was neutered I saw no real change in his behavior and since we haven't encountered another dog getting in his face I don't know what he would do now. Somehow I do think he would still stand up for himself but I don't know.


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## Pooklook (Mar 10, 2014)

thanks gold4me,
Polar is similar, he isn't dominant nor gets on enybody's face, he doesnt even harass the girls (or boys for that matter). I'm actually fine with Polar standing up for himself since he was a wee puppy -I think he's got to have a (diplomatic) voice to tell other dogs what's what.
I guess my biggest concern is that right now, tho most dogs are fine with him, he's like a magnet for other nasty males who pretty much want a piece of him as soon as he walks in.
Did your boy also became a magnet at some point?


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## gold4me (Mar 12, 2006)

Yes, he did and the strange thing was it was neutered males who generally had an attitude. I am not sure why maybe they didn't like how he smelled????? I basically stayed away from places I felt we might have an issue as my breeder wanted us to wait until he was at least 2 before we neutered him.


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## Pooklook (Mar 10, 2014)

...its weird how similar it is with Polar! I guess it's not necessarily that intact males have a problem with him, is just certain nasty dogs that I guess just want to take him out because they can't stand his testosterone scent going all crazy right now that he just turned 1.
I was also going to wait until he's 2, but since I'm traveling in a few months he'll have to be boarded and camp requires him to be neutered.
I'm hoping the neutering, which has to happen regardless, helps with this situation


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## Eowyn (Aug 29, 2013)

Are you taking him to dog parks? If so you really need to stop. What you are describing definitely sounds like a temperament issue, not necessarily a training/socialization issue. While proper training can mask a temperament issue, the genetics for it will always be there. I would wager that it's not necessarily his age or his "testosterone scent" rather his body language. Blaming other dogs as "just certain nasty dogs that I guess just want to take him out because they can't stand his testosterone scent going all crazy right now that he just turned 1" won't help. It's very likely they are just reacting to your dogs body language. I am not trying to excuse the other dogs behavior (or their owners) but I don't want you to overlook a serious temperament issue thinking it's just the other dogs at fault. I would start working with a reputable behaviorist immediately before the problem gets any worse.


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## Pooklook (Mar 10, 2014)

wow it sounds so serious, is temperament something hidden that flips on like a switch when they turn 1 and start marking?
...because it happened just like that, a couple days before it was all fun and rumble with his buddies, then couple days later, he's more interested in peeing on every tree (several times), he does still play like crazy with his buddies for as long as no stranger dogs get on his face to pickup a fight.
So its confusing, is his temperament fine but then not all of a sudden? is temperament something he has to develop and i can mold, or is he set to be like this?
....maybe I should start calling him "bi-Polar"


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## gold4me (Mar 12, 2006)

I definitely do not go to dog parks but we do have a lot of dog friends that we walk with now, male and female. My boy would rather play ball or have fun walking. He never has been one to get into another dog's space.


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## Test-ok (Jan 15, 2015)

Here's a good read for your situation...I'd bet it's you and not Polar.


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## Eowyn (Aug 29, 2013)

Pooklook said:


> wow it sounds so serious, is temperament something hidden that flips on like a switch when they turn 1 and start marking?
> ...because it happened just like that, a couple days before it was all fun and rumble with his buddies, then couple days later, he's more interested in peeing on every tree (several times), he does still play like crazy with his buddies for as long as no stranger dogs get on his face to pickup a fight.
> So its confusing, is his temperament fine but then not all of a sudden? is temperament something he has to develop and i can mold, or is he set to be like this?
> ....maybe I should start calling him "bi-Polar"


Whew, there is no short answer to any of those questions. Ruffly Speaking has a good article that may be very helpful to you, I will try and find it. 

Male hormones kick in between 1-2 years of age. Prior to that they tend to be easy going teddy bears. Usually it is a slower change, but I do know of males that have that "switch" flip in a few days time. However I always recommend a trip to the vet (including a full thyroid panel, keep in mind a normal low for most breeds is too low for goldens) anytime it happens that soon, just in case there is a physical problem. 

Temperament can be molded through socialization and training, especially the first 16 weeks and through adolescence. But you can't change the underlying genetics. For example, if you raise a dog from birth in a kennel in the backyard from which the dog experience almost nothing else, you will most likely end up with a fearful dog if you try and take him/her anywhere. Even if genetically that dog should have had a ok temperament. Although in theory a truly sound dog should be solid apart from socialization (minus abuse situations). On the flip side some dogs that are naturally very aggressive are probably going to be at least somewhat aggressive no matter the training. 

A dog's temperament is pretty much like puzzle with lots of pieces. One large piece (or many pieces of the puzzle, however you want to picture it) is the dogs genetics. One large piece may be the socialization the dog may receive. One piece may be the training he receives. One piece may be a dogs bad experiences. One piece may be the owners personality/temperament (a high strung nervous owner may contribute to their dogs high strung nervous temperament). Etc. Etc. Etc. 

Here are two personal examples of dogs I have had. I have a dog aggressive dog who I rescued at 1.4 years old. She came from a family with one other small dog and a neighborhood with several other dogs. However she never had contact with the other dogs in her neighborhood besides viewing them from her fenced in yard. She was boarded at a bad kennel and bullied by others dogs during the week stay. In 8 months of training she has come along way, but she will always be dog aggressive. Her puzzle looks like no socialization, bad experiences and I think a natural genetic bent towards unpredictable aggression (fear aggression).

On the flip side I had an unaltered male golden who was raised in a barn in the country with almost no socialization whatsoever (I don't think he ever saw a dog after 8 weeks until 1 year, expect their female golden, also kept in a barn and a bit of a bully in play). When he was 1 year old they did one puppy class at Petco with him and their female golden (who fought with the only other dog in the class, a pitbull). He then didn't see another dog again until 2 years of age. When I got him he was perfect. He was the best dog I ever owned. Solid, unflappable, love everybody perfect golden temperament. His puzzle looked like amazing genetics that balanced out a really bad rest of the puzzle. 

Socialization couldn't have probably masked the first dog's bad temperament, but the second dogs temperament was so good even no socialization couldn't mar it.


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## Eowyn (Aug 29, 2013)

Test-ok said:


> Here's a good read for your situation...I'd bet it's you and not Polar.


I didn't read the article, but Ceasar Milan isn't well versed in current Canine training techniques. His training is abuse/intimidation based and founded in canine behavior beliefs that have long been proven inaccurate. JMHO


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Eowyn said:


> Are you taking him to dog parks? If so you really need to stop. What you are describing definitely sounds like a temperament issue, not necessarily a training/socialization issue. While proper training can mask a temperament issue, the genetics for it will always be there. I would wager that it's not necessarily his age or his "testosterone scent" rather his body language. Blaming other dogs as "just certain nasty dogs that I guess just want to take him out because they can't stand his testosterone scent going all crazy right now that he just turned 1" won't help. It's very likely they are just reacting to your dogs body language. I am not trying to excuse the other dogs behavior (or their owners) but I don't want you to overlook a serious temperament issue thinking it's just the other dogs at fault. I would start working with a reputable behaviorist immediately before the problem gets any worse.


I agree with consulting a good trainer and/or behaviorist (they are not the same thing), but I do not think you have a temperament problem. It is very common, and typical, for young males to start feeling their oats when they hit puberty. Previous good behavior can be reinforced and encouraged with training, and issues can be addressed and a good trainer can teach you and him how to handle situations differently. So while I agree you should get some input from a good trainer I don't think you have a serious problem, yet. 

Having said that, if you let him continue to "practice" bad behavior he will get better at being bad. Definitely skip the dog park until you know he is going to be better behaved, or just skip it for good. Dogs with a propensity to be bullies will always be worse at the dog park and should not go.


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## Test-ok (Jan 15, 2015)

> His training is abuse/intimidation based


really?? if you can find me one abuse or intimidation technique I might change my view on his techniques. But I doubt you can.


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## Eowyn (Aug 29, 2013)

After re-reading my posts, I wasn't trying to say I thought he had a temperament issue per say, I was jus throwing out options and my personal experience.


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## Pooklook (Mar 10, 2014)

Thanks all for your feedback and opinions.
Polar is our only son (we don't have children so you can imagine how much love he gets -sometimes I think we overwhelm him a bit) and he is a sweetheart; it's in his nature. Since we had him at 4 mos. he's always been super friendly towards people, children and all dogs -so temperament is definitely out, I think.
I think like mylissyk mentioned probably he's hit puberty and "start feeling his oats", and that probably annoys other dogs, specially if they are strangers.
See, I've been taking him to the dog park since he was little (every weekend early mornings) and all his buddies from the dog park (they've practically grown playing together) are fine with it and seem to understand whats going on and either let him mind his own business of peeing all day long everywhere or they call his bluff and make him give in to playtime and they end up playing like usual.
Recently, I've tried to take him during the week every other evening after work and while some of his buddies are there as well, there are a lot of stranger dogs that it seems make him a bit apprehensive to let go and go play, and these dogs are the ones who just drop whatever they are doing and come to get on his face.
For example, last Friday evening was when the second incident happened; he came in and every human that knows him comes and gives him his hugs and kisses (and he replies with whole-body-wags and kisses as usual), but he's a bit apprehensive refusing to play with an old buddy, and shortly after we arrived a pit trotted from across the park to meet Polar, but after a few sniffs he got right on his face and the growls began and in a second they jump at it -of course we the owners are right on top of it to stop it before they even have a chance (it's a good park with good responsible owners -for the most part). After separating them and let them know is not ok both went their separate ways, but the pit later tried the same thing another two times and that's when his dad decided to take him home.
Next day, Saturday early morning (his usual) one of his buddies from puppyhood, another pit called Vader (awesome name!), is there and they immediately start playing like always for almost one hour straight before more of his buddies show up to join the fun.
So, it's not temperament, it's not a pit aversion thing from him or me, so I don't know what else it might be. I'm hoping is just a puberty phase.
I'm frankly leaning more towards gold4me's advice of avoiding the dog park for a while, or at least I'll chose the right times (with the right playmates).
What I don't understand is why many people want to have professional help intervening right away -IMHO seeking that would be the last resort after I do everything I can to make it all work out, that includes educating myself as much as possible and listening to different opinions and advice.


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## SwimDog (Sep 28, 2014)

Pooklook said:


> What I don't understand is why many people want to have professional help intervening right away -IMHO seeking that would be the last resort after I do everything I can to make it all work out, that includes educating myself as much as possible and listening to different opinions and advice.


Reactive Champion: Why You Need a Trainer (Even If You Can't Afford One)

Professional help early on can help resolve situations faster than if the behavior is practiced over time (as others have said). This means less stress for the dog (Polar doesn't feel good when he gets into disagreements), less stress for the people, less safety risks, etc. Many owners trying to help their dogs end up doing things that are inappropriate or bad timing or whatever else - and that can make the problem much worse. sure - things could be fine without the time/money of a professional ( or may not be 100% even with that help) - however - the question is - is it worth the risk of things getting worse? How will you feel later if you haven't done everything you could to get help? We can't time travel so early intervention professional help isn't something we can go back and do later.

Not to mention - anytime there's a safety concern, it's just responsible for people to say "see a qualified professional" - whether it's behavior or health.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Pooklook said:


> ...
> What I don't understand is why many people want to have professional help intervening right away -IMHO seeking that would be the last resort after I do everything I can to make it all work out, that includes educating myself as much as possible and listening to different opinions and advice.


Getting professional help now, from someone who has experience and can look at the situation and give you tried and proven methods to work on the issues, prevents you from allowing him to practice the bad behavior while you attempt to figure it out on your own. The help is available, I don't understand why you would want to skip experienced help and run the risk of making mistakes that make him worse. 

Caveat being you have to find a good trainer with positive methods that knows what they are doing. On that note, there are probably people on this board that can give you recommendations for good trainers in your area.


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## golfgal (Dec 31, 2013)

It could be a combination of hormones, teenage behavior or who knows what else. Whether you've gone to dog parks since he was a puppy or not, there is a behavior change now and I'd want to keep him safe. Trauma from a dog fight or dog bite is going to be a much bigger issue. I'd err on side of caution but that's me. 

That said, I do know that some dogs (males/females) have issues with un-neutered and it does become apparent at a certain point, not age specific. I encountered it when walking my leashed dog in various places, not dog parks. Frustrates me that usually those dogs are the ones off-leash but that's another tangent. One puppy wouldn't stand up for himself if his life depended on it, the other one would eventually bark back to try and get other dog to back off. My job is to protect my dog is my viewpoint. 

I think it's worthwhile getting medical and temperament checked out to rule out anything. Only you can decide if neutering early or later is in the cards, and no guarantees that will stop the behavior. Just my two cents, imho.


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## Pooklook (Mar 10, 2014)

thanks all for all the useful feedback,

well, the Zeutirin is out of the question, but the neutering is going to happen soon anyways (tho no guarantee -maybe it'll help) so I'll find out if any underlying health problems then.

As for professional help, I got nothing against it, it's just not my first choice/step of intervention. I rather get in there and try my best to make it work first.

I'm pretty sure Polar would feel more stressed being handled by any professional rather than myself -unless I was of course a terrible or clueless dad with only good intentions.

I grew up and have had dogs all my life, so while no expert I don't consider myself clueless either. I believe dogs (like people) have a way to understand and learn and move-on from any experience, good or bad, and it is up to us to be involved wholeheartedly to steer the ship and provide happiness for them (love, attention, discipline, security, health, shelter, etc. etc.). And yes, including being humble enough to seek the professional help they need when appropriate.

I believe dogs deserve more credit since they are smart enough to learn cues and guidance from the people and even other dogs that care about them -if you give them a chance (responsibly). Also credit is due to caring, savvy, and open-minded parents who don't mind learning, asking and getting their hands dirty to be there for their kids.

Honestly, I don't think Polar is a "case" with "issues". And I'm on it, doing, listening and learning so it doesn't turn into that.

Noted, "seek professional help" is an option that is always to be considered, but rather for a situation when other means can't be of help anymore; be it myself, family, friend, or even another professional -who would probably then say "seek an expert/specialist help".


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Pooklook said:


> ...As for professional help, I got nothing against it, it's just not my first choice/step of intervention. I rather get in there and try my best to make it work first.
> 
> I'm pretty sure Polar would feel more stressed being handled by any professional rather than myself -unless I was of course a terrible or clueless dad with only good intentions....


With a good trainer getting in there and making it work is exactly what you would be doing. The trainer would not be handling Polar, you would be handling him yourself following the recommendations and instructions the trainer gives you.

While people on this board are very knowledgeable and can give you some advice, we are not a replacement for an in person observation from someone who has experience with behavior concerns.


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## Pooklook (Mar 10, 2014)

Hi all, here's an update.
Polar is now freshly neutered and everything went fine. After a drowsy last night, this morning he is back to full Polar. Obviously, he'll be often wearing his lampshade costume for a week or two and won't be able to go hiking or parks in the meanwhile =(
So, since I knew this ahead of time I decided to let him have a good time before this.
With all the great information and advice gathered in these forums and ultimately following my gut, I planned for a strategic time to bring him to the park and let him play with his buddies Saturday early morning -usually only his best buddies he grew up with are there that early.
Even better when we arrived, even his children buddies were at the park. These are three very sweet kids that met Polar a few months ago and absolutely love him, and they have a super sweet -and completely non-jealous dog named Cookie).
So the kids and his buddies all come to the gate to greet him while he replies with full-booty wags and smiles -he actually smiles.
There was only one stranger dog, a large yellow lab who was making a fuss behind the fence. We waited a bit and I felt that he wasn't vicious or even aggressive, probably just dominant + I noticed Polar didn't even pay attention to him. The owner soon approached and with a single command his dog calmly turned and went to him.
So I decided to give it a shot and go in ...well the kids decided that, since they had already open the gate for him by the time I looked up after unhooking his leash ;p
Long story short, Polar got to play with his buddies and the kids for a few hours before his surgery. The lab only sent a nasty bark to Polar while thy were introducing each other, so Polar walked away and went back to play, and that was that.
So I think the whole behavior instances may have been just a phase that he's already growing out of or learning to handle properly. We'll see.
So I'll update after he's healed and don't have to wear his "cone-of-shame" and be ready to go out again.


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