# Contacts?



## Augie's Mom (Sep 28, 2007)

We do 2o/2o.


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## Laurie (Sep 20, 2009)

We also do 2 on/2 off.


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

2o2o for all... but Griff learned it so fast that I was adventurous and have been working on running. I'm very happy so far.

If you aren't wanting to spend a ton of time, non-independent 2o2o is probably the way to go.


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

I will train Gabby 2o2o. I have seen TOO much failure to hit the contact for me to want to train running. A truly fast dog, you want the opportunity to hold them to position for your next sequence. And with a truly fast dog, stopping them for a moment will NOT disturb your time. My trainer has a FAST sheltie, she does 2o2o and that dog takes up to 20 seconds off course time. If she didn't stop her, she could not control her. 

One thing I will do is give my stop command, and quick release if I don't need them to "stay". So as they start to stop, sit whatever, release them to go on. Whatever option you choose, contacts are a constant work in progress. 

My other reason for not wanting running contacts is the higher occurrence of injury.


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## IowaGold (Nov 3, 2009)

I attempt 2o2o with Ruby, but it is more of a pause than a stop (green dog, green trainer issue that I haven't been able to resolve!). Piper will have 2o2o because I think it's faster/easier/less ambiguous to the dog to teach it.

I have a related question-do you like to have a command (touch, bottom, etc.) or do you expect 2o2o to be the default behavior on contacts, no further command necessary?


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## iansgran (May 29, 2010)

Sorry to be so clueless but what are you talking about?


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## Stretchdrive (Mar 12, 2011)

My Rivet was originally trained running contacts, but he was way to fast on them so I switched instructors, and taught him 2o 2o, and it really has helped him understand the contacts.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

OMG you guys have no idea how much this stresses me out. I don't like making decisions. Deciding how to train go-outs and what kind of contacts I want are the two things that really totally stress me out. I have spent hours in my bed thinking those two things over with various dogs.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

I use 2o/2o with all of my current dogs - but; Rowdy had a damaged neck and some arthritic changes in his shoulder so he was trained to sit at the very end of contacts with his feet on the ground to lessen the impact and made sure he shifted his weight back. This method worked so well that he generally had essentially a running contact (fast release) in trials  He never missed a down contact in all my years of showing him.


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## IowaGold (Nov 3, 2009)

Sunrise said:


> I use 2o/2o with all of my current dogs - but; Rowdy had a damaged neck and some arthritic changes in his shoulder so he was trained to sit at the very end of contacts with his feet on the ground to lessen the impact and made sure he shifted his weight back. This method worked so well that he generally had essentially a running contact (fast release) in trials  He never missed a down contact in all my years of showing him.


You know Ruby's latest "bottom" command is SIT! You should have seen her face the first time I used it (in a trial no less). I've used it twice now and we're at 100% hitting our contacts...


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## IowaGold (Nov 3, 2009)

Ian'sgran said:


> Sorry to be so clueless but what are you talking about?


I'm not sure how much you know about agility, so forgive me if I get too basic!

Contact obstacles in agility are the A-Frame, Dog Walk, and Teeter. To perform the obstacle correctly the dog *must* get at least one foot inside the "contact zone" (the bottom portion of the obstacle-I can't remember the measurements-this area is typically painted yellow). While it doesn't sound too hard, it actually is hard in a large dog (or a smaller dog with a large stride). There are several different ways to teach the dog to hit the contact".

2o2o=two on, two off=front feet on the ground, back feet remaining on the obstacle. The dog is supposed to stay in this position until the handler releases him. Done properly, the dog is guaranteed to hit the contact.

Running contact=the dog is supposed to run down the obstacle and keep going. The dog is supposed to run down the ENTIRE down side of the obstacle. Not easy! This method takes A LOT of training and repetitions.

There are other methods of training contacts, but they don't seem to be as popular as these two.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

IowaGold said:


> I attempt 2o2o with Ruby, but it is more of a pause than a stop (green dog, green trainer issue that I haven't been able to resolve!). Piper will have 2o2o because I think it's faster/easier/less ambiguous to the dog to teach it.
> 
> I have a related question-do you like to have a command (touch, bottom, etc.) or do you expect 2o2o to be the default behavior on contacts, no further command necessary?


In the high stress of a trial environment, having a touch / bottom / sit command can only be good  They will use the behavior as a default eventually, but almost everyone I know still uses the verbal as well -

I would have loved to see her face the first time you used SIT for a contact BTW


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

Griffin was over a YEAR old before I made a decision about contacts...and I got him with intentions of doing agility. Multiple times a week I would debate with friends about what kind of behavior to teach. It was painful!


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

I train 2o2o contacts, and will probably continue to do so. They have gotten better with each dog, but they are still not quite where I want them. I would like a dog that drives to the bottom and then does a 2o2o until released.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

The trainer here (who is also an agility judge and has been in the sport FOREVER, runs flat coated retrievers and goldens) trains all the goldens in this method; sitting on the contact with their front feet on the ground. Maybe call it butt-o/2o? She says that these dogs who carry a big percentage of their weight in their front ends should all be shifting the impact back off of their elbows and shoulders on the contacts.
FWIW.




Sunrise said:


> I use 2o/2o with all of my current dogs - but; Rowdy had a damaged neck and some arthritic changes in his shoulder so he was trained to sit at the very end of contacts with his feet on the ground to lessen the impact and made sure he shifted his weight back. This method worked so well that he generally had essentially a running contact (fast release) in trials  He never missed a down contact in all my years of showing him.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I have a hard time using the sit command with Tito because he has a pretty instantaneous response and I have a hard time judging when to say "sit", as I'm always about 20 feet behind him on the dog walk. I tend to say it too soon, because he's ahead of me and flying fast, and he drops his butt down instantly, before ever getting to the contact.
So I use bottom. Sometimes bottom-sit




IowaGold said:


> You know Ruby's latest "bottom" command is SIT! You should have seen her face the first time I used it (in a trial no less). I've used it twice now and we're at 100% hitting our contacts...


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

I am hoping to get involved in agility once my dog's OFA films come back. I have been teaching 2o2o using a box that is low to the ground. My first dog I did not teach contacts at all--I was a naive 4her at the time.


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

A Golden I love, who has AMAZING contacts (they are my dream contacts) was taught with a sit. He does not sit now, but that is how he was taught. You can see him rock back his weight. I will probably incorporate a sit with my next dog.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I think I kind of like the idea of a sit. It seems like it would be quickest to teach and clear in the dog's mind of exactly what is expected. I might try that out and see how it goes. I don't have any real equipment but I do have a contact trainer.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Okay <grins> confession time 

Rowdy never missed a down contact in trialling. Casey only missed down contacts on the 2 seperate occasions that he launched from the apex of the AFrame and once when the teeter went out from under him. Faelan and Towhee have not starting trialling in earnest yet so I cannot speak to their behaviour (although each of the 3 or 4 times Faelan tried that rubberized AFrame at Thanksgiving his 2o2o was just great thank you very much!! ).

BUT!! Jodie, teach the UP Contacts as well LOL I learned from my mistakes on that one! Once I got to the Exc level and Casey and Rowdy were flying (yes they beat Border Collies, Aussies etc), that Up contact seemed to become optional to them - they would literally bolt right over the thing on the dogwalk and sometimes on the teeter! Train the up contacts while they are young  Trialling is way more cost effective that way...


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

Thankgoodness for AKC the only up contact judged is the teeter! They stopped judging the DW last Sept. I hated getting called on that with Barley! He is a big stride dog!!


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

sammydog said:


> Thankgoodness for AKC the only up contact judged is the teeter! They stopped judging the DW last Sept. I hated getting called on that with Barley! He is a big stride dog!!


I was soooo happy when I saw that change! I hated those arm movements that always let me know large strided dogs running at full speed don't neccessarily need that stinking yellow zone :doh::doh:

But I personally still need to train the things since their teeters are very fast too <good & bad>. That one change probably resulted in a huge increase in Q rates LOL


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Flip has a really long stride when he is running. Even though he is so much smaller than Conner, he covers a lot more ground because he tends to leap through the air on each stride. It's also been causing us to have more trouble on getting a fast enough drop on recall, but at least I have some ideas on how to fix that.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Okay guys, you will need to be my support group and make me follow through on training Flip in agility! I don't have a whole lot of motivation to do so, but I know he would love it so I really want to do it!

Don't let me quit!


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Loisiana said:


> Okay guys, you will need to be my support group and make me follow through on training Flip in agility! I don't have a whole lot of motivation to do so, but I know he would love it so I really want to do it!
> 
> Don't let me quit!


Ha!! You wait Jodie. 

I used to be so very serious and in love with obedience and absolutely loved the precision and training.

But agility and field are whole new worlds to me - they are just plain fun and challenging in a less stressful (to me) way. Even a bad day at agility is fun and exciting  I don't leave the agility ring thinking - huh I wonder if I lost points for that about turn, I leave it thinking Wow, that was fun, too bad about that off course jump!


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I keep training my dogs in agility, and then fizzle out and stop. It's so hard to motivate myself to do it when I'm all by myself with no class to go to. I trained Annabel for quite awhile, entered one trial, and then quit. I trained Colby very seriously for a long time then got frustrated and never trialed him and quit training. I'd like to at least stick with it long enough to get some titles on Flip.


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

Not to mentioned Flip will probably be very good! Nothing will get you hooked into a sport than having a dog that can kick some butt! 

Sharon, I totally agree with you about that! Even a bad day at agility being fun and exciting!! Woo hoo!

I am hopelessly addicted to agility!


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Can your budget support a subscription to Clean Run? They give ideas for exercises and handling options every month which might add some variety and handling ideas?

I am very fortunate with all the classes and instructors around this area, but still find the Clean Run issues motivating.


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

You can also get on online version for something like $20 or $25. I used to have that... I really need to renew my subscription...


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

note to Tito---the top of the A-frame is NOT a dock---you do not attempt to leap off the apex, 15 feet out.....


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

hotel4dogs said:


> note to Tito---the top of the A-frame is NOT a dock---you do not attempt to leap off the apex, 15 feet out.....


Do you know how many legs we missed because Titan likes to do a little leap 4 inches before the contact...grrr...which is why we stopped.... Okay truth time.. I stopped because I stunk at it...ROFL!
he could have been awesome..poor Titey needs a new mommy!


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Titan1 said:


> Do you know how many legs we missed because Titan likes to do a little leap 4 inches before the contact...grrr...which is why we stopped.... Okay truth time.. I stopped because I stunk at it...ROFL!
> he could have been awesome..poor Titey needs a new mommy!


Right .. I am so not believing 'Titey' needs a new mommy :bowl::bowl:


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

Sunrise said:


> Right .. I am so not believing 'Titey' needs a new mommy :bowl::bowl:


Yep he needs one but not getting one.LOL. I tried to talk Jessica into coming to MN to run Titan.. She wasn't buying that either..:crazy:


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

You know, one of these days I am going to show up on your porch with Mira! :wave:

And Titan has the PERFECT mommy!


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

sammydog said:


> You know, one of these days I am going to show up on your porch with Mira! :wave:
> 
> And Titan has the PERFECT mommy!


And you both would be totally welcome..LOL! I would love it! I still say you should do Orlando this December!


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

okay, I'm bored with training agility ROFL!

I have worked so hard with Flip to convince him that if I have a board down his front feet should be on it, that he is totally confused with me now trying to get his front feet _off _of it. But we're working on it. 

We did a little right sided heeling too (yuck). He does okay if we're just going in a straight line but as soon as I start to add in a turn he pops over to my left side (good little obedience dog!).

I think I found about 14 different pieces of my weave poles scattered out between the dog room and my back yard. Hopefully when I gather them all up they will make a full set.

Don't let me quit!


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

Keep up the good work! He is an agility star in the making!!! :


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I'm kind of thinking maybe we should just aim for the jumpers class and skip training contacts altogether....


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

Oh no you don't!!!!! You don't get off that easy!!!!


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

Loisiana said:


> I'm kind of thinking maybe we should just aim for the jumpers class and skip training contacts altogether....


I agree which is why Titan has only one AKC agility title..NJP>>>


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

Oh boo to both of you!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

hey you have to get in line for Jessica to run your dogs, I asked her first a long time ago, LOL.
And we also have Ann (Maxs Mom) who does a fantastic job, I wonder what we have to pay agility handlers?????


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Oh believe me, I'm thrilled when Tito leaps 4 inches before the contact....it's several feet of improvement.
Seriously, he about scared me to death with his leaps off the apex of the A-frame. Just vaults off, never gets one paw on the down side of it. I was afraid he'd break his legs, or his neck. Or I'd have to break his neck for him.
But he's past that phase now, thanks to an awesome trainer (not handler, me, but trainer that we work with) and a lot of targets at the bottom of the A-frame.
We also seem to have FINALLY gotten him past the notion that he needs to pick up and retrieve targets, although his delivery to hand was rather impressive the whole thing was pretty annoying.




Titan1 said:


> Do you know how many legs we missed because Titan likes to do a little leap 4 inches before the contact...grrr...which is why we stopped.... Okay truth time.. I stopped because I stunk at it...ROFL!
> he could have been awesome..poor Titey needs a new mommy!


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

You are all too funny!!! You know Ann and I would love to run 'em all!

Look what I have! Photo evidence of a nice 2o2o at a trial!! This was posted last night from our latest trial. : (Clark Kranz AgileDogs)


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

great photos of the 2o/2o! Really shows how it's supposed to be done!


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

Okay Titan and I ran an agility course yesterday before the puppies came to play.. He was awesome until the Fr*$%@*^*&*^@!*@ A- frame.. That is why I quit agility! BLAK!
(throws leash down and stomps away in disgust!)


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Titan1 said:


> Okay Titan and I ran an agility course yesterday before the puppies came to play.. He was awesome until the Fr*$%@*^*&*^@!*@ A- frame.. That is why I quit agility! BLAK!
> (throws leash down and stomps away in disgust!)


You are my role model!!!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

you crack me up!



Titan1 said:


> Okay Titan and I ran an agility course yesterday before the puppies came to play.. He was awesome until the Fr*$%@*^*&*^@!*@ A- frame.. That is why I quit agility! BLAK!
> (throws leash down and stomps away in disgust!)


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## Stretchdrive (Mar 12, 2011)

Poor Titan 

Titan says.."I had fun, but if you want me to do it your way, then we need to do this more often! Oh how I do enjoy sailing over the A-Frame though! You know the bitches dig that mom! I really love agility!!"


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

Stretchdrive said:


> Oh how I do enjoy sailing over the A-Frame though! You know the bitches dig that mom! I really love agility!!"


I think Mira would be impressed!


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## Stretchdrive (Mar 12, 2011)

Filly would be too!


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

Jessica and Susan.... tell your girls that his mother would be more impressed if he would touch the big yellow section on the way down and then we could play more often..


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