# how much rewarding?



## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

What we did was reduce his daily kibble by about 1/2 a cup to accommodate treats. And we also used about 1/2 a cup as treats in addition to the natural balance log we were using. I always kept my eye on his weight. I want to be able to feel ribs and see a nice tight tuck at his hips. We've increased and decreased his feed based on how he looks and how much exercise he is getting. 

ETA: for us, that correlated into 1/8-1/4 of his daily food allowance. I forgot 9 week olds get a lot less food than 6 month olds. Lol!!!!

FWIW we have to constantly reward Bear , even now. We're in the process of re-training come.


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

Yep adjust the kibble in you're reinforcing with treats. It also doesn't have to be food as a reward, you can use a toy or verbal praise.


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

I believe in building an awesome relationship with new puppies. IMO, I think feeding most of their meals by hand is a great way to do so. With young puppies I don't use a food bowl at all. I may set some of the kibble aside and put it in a kong but most of their daily intake comes directly from my hand. I would also take some of the daily kibble aside to reward all good behaviors the pup chooses to do throughout the day.

If the pup gets three meals I train behaviors at each meal. After a few days we both get use to the routine and these training sessions only take about 5 to 7 minutes so it isn't taking to much time out of anyones day.

1. it helps to teach the behaviors I want.
2. it helps to teach bite inhibition.
3. it builds value for the food
4. it builds value for you
5. I know exactly how much food my pup is getting and can make adjustments if I do give out treats.

With young puppies I will use a special treat for teaching potty training. And if I am taking the pup into areas outside the home for training I will use something higher in value than just kibble. 

An important thing to remember is teaching a new behavior can be done using the food as a lure but after the first session the kibble needs to not be used as a lure but as a reward after the pup has done the behavior asked.

As the pup is learning to do the behaviors you want I also incorporate praise and toys into the mix to build value for them as well.

In the beginning stages of training a behavior you want to reward with a high rate of reinforcement and as the pup truly understands what you want you can change your rate of reinforcement. Always recognizing that when you ask for something harder to again change back to a high rate of reinforcement.


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

"Any opinions on if i should be rewarding him every time he is corrected for things such as no bite, off, quiet ect? Being so young, he needs ALOT of correction"

My corrections are actually not being rewarded for inappropriate behavior. If my pup bites I just stop what I am doing and do not give any attention. (the fun stops). I will let the pup think about it for 30 seconds or maybe a minute then I will ask for a behavior I do like. Such as a sit or a down and when the pup responds to the cue I reward for it.
If the puppy is jumping up on me I again correct the puppy by not giving the pup any attention. As soon as the pup stops I will ask for another behavior sit, down, etc and reward for that. When puppies get really ramped up and just won't quit I will just walk to the x-pen or crate (they will usually follow along and ask them to go in and reward for it. Let them hang out for a little while so they can calm down.

It takes a little time to get through their puppy brains that biting/jumping/barking does not get them any reward of food or attention. Rewarding for good behaviors sets up good habits and then the pups make good choices vs inappropriate choices.
Sometimes we give the pups to much freedom before they have had the opportunity to learn to make a good choice and they choose the inappropriate choices which becomes bad habits.


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## porchpotty (Aug 4, 2011)

Pats and handshakes will do.


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## Heathhanly (Jan 10, 2013)

Only speaking from my experience with my Golden. 

I found that she was so food orientated that she became distracted by the fact that food was available that she forgot about the behaviour I was trying to reinforce ! We started giving food rewards randomly so that she was never sure when the food would arrive. That seems to work, particularly once we started obedience training ( which I know is a few months away for you) . I found if I treated too much in class her whole attention was on my hand, and I mean she ignored all commands and hopped around in front of me salivating. 

Keeping her guessing has worked for me 


Sent from Petguide.com App


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## gldnboys (Mar 15, 2012)

solinvictus said:


> "Any opinions on if i should be rewarding him every time he is corrected for things such as no bite, off, quiet ect? Being so young, he needs ALOT of correction"
> 
> My corrections are actually not being rewarded for inappropriate behavior. If my pup bites I just stop what I am doing and do not give any attention. (the fun stops). I will let the pup think about it for 30 seconds or maybe a minute then I will ask for a behavior I do like. Such as a sit or a down and when the pup responds to the cue I reward for it.
> If the puppy is jumping up on me I again correct the puppy by not giving the pup any attention. As soon as the pup stops I will ask for another behavior sit, down, etc and reward for that. When puppies get really ramped up and just won't quit I will just walk to the x-pen or crate (they will usually follow along and ask them to go in and reward for it. Let them hang out for a little while so they can calm down.
> ...


Great post! I use this approach as well, and I find it works better than anything. What puppies want more than anything is attention, so not giving it to them is really the best "correction". And it's easy - you don't even have to do anything!  Just praise and reward the good behaviours. 

I like to use their meals for training, too.


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## Seagodess (Dec 6, 2012)

I actually usually only give treats (I just use kibble) during training sessions, sometimes other times if she is doing really good. Mostly because I dont have treats on me at all times. Sometimes I think it would be helpful, but its just not practical to have a baggy of treats all day in my hand. She would also follow me around constantly wanting them. I mostly give praise in other ways such as pets and saying good girl.


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

At nine weeks old a puppy is learning new skills all the time. At this time in the puppies education it is practical to have a bag of kibble available. Once the pup knows an individual behavior and it is on cue the owner would do an intermittent schedule of reinforcement. So the pup cannot predict when the reward is coming the reinforcement is put on a variable schedule.

Many people use a lure to teach a pup a particular behavior. First session would be with the lure. Second session would be fading the lure. If the pup is performing the behavior 9 times out of 10 times at each step in the training we move on to the next step which would be reward only being presented after the desired behavior is performed. Eventually putting it on the intermittent reinforcement schedule. The end goal is not having to have the bag of kibble on your body.

Besides using the kibble we should also be using praise and toys in our reward system. And over time during our training we really want to transfer the value of those rewards into us being the actual reward. We are building value in us. The pup wants to do as we ask because to the pup we are the cookie (reinforcement).

We are in the process of building a relationship/bond with our pups that will last 10 to 15 years. Spending a month or two with a baggie of kibble on us or placed safely around the house with easy access while a small pup is learning so much every day isn't to impractical.

Once the pup understands the house rules the only time you will need a baggie of treats/kibble or a toy in the pocket etc is when teaching new skills. With the new skills again you use the high rate of reinforcement eventually changing it up to the intermittent schedule.


When training our pups outside our home in a more distracting enviroment we would use higher value rewards than just kibble.


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## Seagodess (Dec 6, 2012)

> We are in the process of building a relationship/bond with our pups that will last 10 to 15 years. Spending a month or two with a baggie of kibble on us or placed safely around the house with easy access while a small pup is learning so much every day isn't to impractical.
> 
> Once the pup understands the house rules the only time you will need a baggie of treats/kibble or a toy in the pocket etc is when teaching new skills. With the new skills again you use the high rate of reinforcement eventually changing it up to the intermittent schedule.


I get what your saying. Its still not pratical for ME to have a baggy of kibble on me at all times. Most of my clothes dont have pockets and I dont have places to put it really unless I shoved it in the couch or something. I understand what your are saying though. I also dont reward for corrections. So if she is biting me, I say NO BITE, even if she lets go I dont treat or reward in anyway because she was doing something she wasn't supposed to in the first place. Instead during training I teach NO BITE and KISSES. I hold the treat in my hand and if she bites she doesn't get it. If she kisses she gets it. It has worked very well so far for my dog. It took time, but she has gotten much better and listens most of the time when we say no bite or kisses.


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

"I get what your saying. Its still not pratical for ME to have a baggy of kibble on me at all times."

Thank you. Milla is over 4 months and has been in your home for enough time that you shouldn't really need to have kibble in a baggie for most house manners by now anyway. My advice was for those that are bringing in pups that don't know anything yet about living with their families. By now you would only need to have the reward available when actively having a training session teaching new skills which you did say you do.  Outside in a more distracting enviroment may likely be different as she is still young. 

Seagoddess wrote: " I also dont reward for corrections." I might have missed it but I didn't see anyone suggest rewarding for corrections.


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## Seagodess (Dec 6, 2012)

> Seagoddess wrote: " I also dont reward for corrections." I might have missed it but I didn't see anyone suggest rewarding for corrections.


This was my answer to part of the OP.



> Any opinions on if i should be rewarding him every time he is corrected for things such as no bite, off, quiet ect?


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

Seagoddess wrote:This was my answer to part of the OP.


Quote:
Any opinions on if i should be rewarding him every time he is corrected for things such as no bite, off, quiet ect? 

Thanks. I do believe I addressed it in an earlier post and then put it out of my mind. Silly me. I think I need some coffee.


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