# A couple of questions...



## ashleylp (Jul 23, 2011)

Hey all - I'm pretty new to this so I have a few questions. The club I'm in is great, but because it's hunting season they aren't around much. 

1. We are at the junior level right now and have 3/4 passes. I take Remy out to a nearby field about 3-4x a week and practice with a friend who is at the same level that I am. Remy does great at heeling and re-lining up with me after the first bird. He does this well with and without his e-collar. However, at the actual hunt tests, he doesn't want to line up for the second bird... it's as if he's saying "but MOOOOOM! the bird is over THERE! That's where it came from last time!". Do y'all have any pointers for this? right now I look silly, turning in a circle at the line to make sure he lines back up. I've also started turning my body to face the next bird before he returns with the first, but it's not helping. 

2. There seems to be a BIG jump between junior and senior. Are there any tips that y'all have for that switch?


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

I don't know what other people do, but I've trained my dog to run off both sides. I use it mostly when I know Katniss will have a hard time on certain things like that. so I will have her heel on the side that she just ran on or I know wants to focus on and I say no bird then I say this side and that is her cue to heel on the right side. She realizes then that she is focused on the wrong thing and she starts lining up where I want her to look. It really helps now, especially on some marks where I know that she might be tempted to cheat or get sucked into something line an old fall and lining her up on the right side helps to prevent that. just something that has helped her.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

You need another member in your group. Then you can put two stations out in the field. Then it makes it easier for the dog to grasp the concept. You might also try a stick man at each station with just the helper moving from one station to the next.


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## PalouseDogs (Aug 14, 2013)

Agree with Swampcolliie. If you've only trained with one person, your dog is probably watching to see the person move to the next station. Another possible problem is that, at tests, the flyer is often first. Your dog might be too eager for another flyer to look anywhere else.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Maybe you don't really have a problem. Do your best and let the duck calls and gunshot do the rest.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

wagon wheel drill!!!


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

hotel4dogs said:


> wagon wheel drill!!!


*THAT!* But you have not indicated whether or not your dog has completed formal Basics, much less any transitional work. Drills like Wagon Wheel Lining drill (There are actually 3 different Wagon Wheel Drills) can be very helpful, IF your dog has sound fundamentals. Is this the case?

Also, "Yes" there is quite a jump to Senior class work, and that is all the more reason why your dog needs real Basics.

The components of Basics in order

1)	“Here”
2)	“Heel & Sit”
3)	“Hold”; automatically evolves to Walking “Hold, Heel, Sit”
4)	“Fetch”; ear pinch, which evolves into Walking “Fetch” & “Fetch-no-fetch”, e-collar conditioning to “Fetch”
5)	Pile work, including Mini-pile, Nine bumper pile; AKA Force to pile
6)	3-handed casting; teaching the 3 basic casts – “Back” and both “Over’s”, including 2-hands “Back”
7)	Mini tee; includes collar conditioning to all basic commands, transferring to the go, stop, cast functions in micro dimension as preparation for the Single tee. Also includes De-bolting
8)	Single tee
9)	Double tee
10)	Water tee with Swim-by

Questions?

EvanG


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## goldlover68 (Jun 17, 2013)

One trick I have learned is when heeling your dog, always turn into the dog, not away from him. (e.g., if he is on your left, re-heel to the new mark by turning left, into him). This forces him to go with you and makes it difficult for him to line on the old mark.

As Even says above what have you actually completed in training so far? Also, what training program are you using?

Moving up to the SH level is a big jump! The dog must be very steading as no lead can be used. The dog must be trained to honor another dog. Must be trained to run a 'blind' and fully capable of handling and whistle sit. Etc., etc.....

Good Luck


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

I found that working doubles has helped. I had this problem with Darcy. Now she scouts the terrain and moves with me or I tap my knee and she heels to it. 

Also if you only have one person to help, a remote controlled dummy launcher is really good to set up a second station.


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## TrailDogs (Aug 15, 2011)

gdgli said:


> Maybe you don't really have a problem. Do your best and let the duck calls and gunshot do the rest.


I am going to agree with this. For hunt test training I don't pull dogs off of marks, I let the duck calls and gunshot turn the dog. When you start doing multiples you want your dog to stay focused as long as possible on that bird that will become a memory bird. 
It will help you to get two or more throwers out there and let the throwers make enough noise to turn your dog, he will quickly learn to look for the next mark.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Unless you are going to run HRC! In that case, the gunshot and the duck call are at the line, not out in the field.



TrailDogs said:


> I am going to agree with this. For hunt test training I don't pull dogs off of marks, I let the duck calls and gunshot turn the dog. When you start doing multiples you want your dog to stay focused as long as possible on that bird that will become a memory bird.
> It will help you to get two or more throwers out there and let the throwers make enough noise to turn your dog, he will quickly learn to look for the next mark.


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## TrailDogs (Aug 15, 2011)

hotel4dogs said:


> Unless you are going to run HRC! In that case, the gunshot and the duck call are at the line, not out in the field.


I don't run HRC, not much of it around me. Are you allowed to point out the gun stations to your dog? Or does the dog follow the movement of the gun barrel?
What cues the dog to the direction of the birds?


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## ashleylp (Jul 23, 2011)

EvanG said:


> *THAT!* But you have not indicated whether or not your dog has completed formal Basics, much less any transitional work. Drills like Wagon Wheel Lining drill (There are actually 3 different Wagon Wheel Drills) can be very helpful, IF your dog has sound fundamentals. Is this the case?
> 
> Also, "Yes" there is quite a jump to Senior class work, and that is all the more reason why your dog needs real Basics.
> 
> ...


So far, we have done Heel, here and sit, hold, fetch, pile work, and have barely started on 3 handed casting! I'm not familiar with the wagon wheel drill. We had started out doing hunt training about a year and a half ago and then my job switched to working all weekends and I lost momentum. I just recently got involved again and the club told me to go ahead and run Junior because I was ready -- should have ran a year and a half ago! Remy got right back into it and we have now passed 3/4. I haven't had to do a ton of training for him except for getting him used to doing singles again, so that's all we've been working on. Now, both my training partner and I are getting into casting. I have used Evan G's system and she is using Bill Hillman. I'm not familiar with Bill Hillman's system at all.


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

How much of my system do you have? If you have Smartwork for Retrievers volume one, page 115 begins teaching of the Wagon Wheel drills. All three of them are shown. When will you water force and train Swim-by?

EvanG


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## Jige (Mar 17, 2011)

I think if you start having 2 people out there throwing Remy will quickly catch on that he needs to line up where you tell him too.


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## goldlover68 (Jun 17, 2013)

Both Evan and Bill Hillman system for training are good. I prefer Evan's and I have his Smartwork's books, great to help you go step by step keeping track of your progress. I also have all of his DVD's as they allow me to watch exactly how to run a drill or find specific training sequences....

Good Luck


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

The Transition phase 1 DVD will show you how to perform Wagon Wheel Drills; lining, casting (aka 8-handed casting), and 2-hands Back, which we now do in 3-handed casting before starting on 'Overs'.

EvanG


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