# Max age to breed?



## McBones (Mar 7, 2016)

Is there a recommended age limit at which a female is considered too old to have more puppies, for "reputable breeders"? In people the older the mother, the higher chance of complications- is this similar for dogs? 
Is there an age when the male is considered too old to sire quality pups?
Thanks


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

It's primarily health concerns with older moms - more chance of cysts. So it's basically something that a lot of people approach with a lot of care. Any pregnancy can be dangerous for your girlie...

The boys - they can be bred even after they are dead.


----------



## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

My Towhee just turned 8 and is pregnant with her final litter. Her breeder is no doubt as reputable as possible, even winning AKC Breeder of the Year (2014) for Obedience. 8 is a safe cut off age for healthy goldens. Just like the males, fertility may decrease as they get older.

Males should probably have sperm counts done routinely if bred, but most golden males should still be good at 7 or 8. Fertility, mobility etc may begin decreasing after this. 
Collections are commonly being done at 2 as soon as clearances are complete to help safeguard fertility in the males lines.

ETA: I should point out that my Towhee has had surgical implants (frozen AI) where her uterus is examined, and she has a healthy uturus, free of cysts or other issues so she is perhaps representative of a safer 8 year old girl.

As Megora mentioned, all breeding is potentially harmful for the mothers, and needs to be carefully considered.


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

It really is more individualized to the mom. A lot of reputable breeders will have between 2-4 litters before the mom is 6. But, for moms that have a huge career, like obiedence, campaigned show dogs, hunting, etc. she is likely not availble to have litter very often as she is busy competing For these types of moms, it is common to see these girls have litters later in life. 

It really comes down to the health and vitality of the mom. 

I will say the number of litters from a single girl would be more a concern for me in determining if this is being done for the right reasons (reputable) or for profit. If the mom is 8 and this will be her 3rd litter that is very different than if she is 8 and this will be her 8th litter.


----------



## Christen113 (Dec 3, 2014)

LJack said:


> It really is more individualized to the mom. A lot of reputable breeders will have between 2-4 litters before the mom is 6. But, for moms that have a huge career, like obiedence, campaigned show dogs, hunting, etc. she is likely not availble to have litter very often as she is busy competing For these types of moms, it is common to see these girls have litters later in life.
> 
> It really comes down to the health and vitality of the mom.
> 
> I will say the number of litters from a single girl would be more a concern for me in determining if this is being done for the right reasons (reputable) or for profit. If the mom is 8 and this will be her 3rd litter that is very different than if she is 8 and this will be her 8th litter.


I always thought this too but UC Davis suggests breeding young and back to back to lower the chances of pyometra. Obviously, I don't agree with breeding pre clearances but is it really as bad as we originally thought if they're bred back to back if it's "healthier" for the dog? And if that is done, should they stop breeding sooner rather than later? I think most probably just wouldn't have the energy to care for back to back litters (I sure wouldn't).


----------



## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

The age at which you retire a female from breeding depends entirely upon the condition of the individual female. Usually you see a change from her previous litters that says this is the end. It might be a significant reduction in litter size, length of time recovering from delivery, change in attitude with the puppies, etc. If the breeder is paying attention they will tell you when they're done.


----------



## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

Swampcollie said:


> The age at which you retire a female from breeding depends entirely upon the condition of the individual female. Usually you see a change from her previous litters that says this is the end. It might be a significant reduction in litter size, length of time recovering from delivery, change in attitude with the puppies, etc. If the breeder is paying attention they will tell you when they're done.


 
Very much agree!


----------



## GoldenFocus (Feb 28, 2016)

I am under the impression that one should wait until the Female is 2 years old before breeding. Found a breeder that started them at 1 year old and a 2 year old was nursing its second litter......

I could be totally wrong but I moved on to find another breeder based on the above.


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Christen113 said:


> I always thought this too but UC Davis suggests breeding young and back to back to lower the chances of pyometra. Obviously, I don't agree with breeding pre clearances but is it really as bad as we originally thought if they're bred back to back if it's "healthier" for the dog? And if that is done, should they stop breeding sooner rather than later? I think most probably just wouldn't have the energy to care for back to back litters (I sure wouldn't).


Also, understand they are saying healthier for the uterus. That does not necessarily mean the whole dog. Some moms bounce back great some not so much. I would personally I make my decision on what's best for the whole dog, not just her uterus. 

Plus there is the whole nutritional concept to look at. Moms are not just a vehicle for making puppies they are also the only nutritional source for the first several week of the puppies lives. A mom who has not recovered nutritionally will not provide the good nutrition need to support still developing puppies once the hit the ground. Service dog organizations have found puppies from the first litter in a mom's production life are more likely to make it as services dogs than those from subsequent litters with the number decreasing as the number of litters increases. The theory is at each progressive litter she has less ability to handle the nutritional needs of puppy brain development, specifically DHA.


----------

