# Daily car rides...crate, backseat, seatbelt or loose?



## Karma's Friend (Mar 19, 2009)

For daily local rides around town, how, if at all do you constrain your adult Goldens?

Crate?
Backseat?
Doggie seatbelt?
Loose?


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## Emma&Tilly (May 15, 2005)

um...no option available for me as my dogs sit in the boot behind a dog guard.


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## rictic (Feb 16, 2009)

i have found a lead / collar /harness contraption that actually has a seat belt buckle incorparated. too big for the pup right now but i will get one.

plus they are in the pound shop for ,yep £1.00.
about $ 1.40 or so.

what a bargain.

there is also a matching harness and it is adjustable and can be used as a leash too.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

I put seatbelt because Bama wears one but Beau just lays on the backseat and doesnt move. But then he only goes in the car if he has to go to the vet. It is too hard for him to get in and out of the car.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Doggie seat belts used in this household. They've been being used since 2003. I'm a nut when it comes to them riding in the car. Actually, I'm just very over protective in most situations.

Shadow is great in the car. He sits up like a soldier, but he still wears a seat belt. I don't want to see my dogs become projectiles.


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## spruce (Mar 13, 2008)

3 loose in back of SUVs with back seat folded down. 

The airbag message got thru to my husband & he no longer has one sitting next to him.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

I have always used a "restraint" system of some kind. And no flames intended but if you do not use one what the heck are you thinking? You really need to start to do so. It does not matter how well behaved and they do not move in vehicle, it is just downright dangerous for your pet not to do so. If you stop abrubtly, say hit another vehicle, tree or some other thing your dog will become a projectile and get sent flying into/through a window or windshield. 
PLEASE reconsider if you are not using something today!!

Off my soapbox.


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## Celeigh (Nov 29, 2007)

Mine ride in the back of my SUV, but I'm rethinking that after a car crash locally last week:

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/dog-quesada-accident-2334994-vehicle-explorer

The pictures accompanying the article, while they don't show the dog, do show the yellow sheet and the anguish on the owner's face. So sad.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

AmbikaGR said:


> I have always used a "restraint" system of some kind. And no flames intended but if you do not use one what the heck are you thinking? You really need to start to do so. It does not matter how well behaved and they do not move in vehicle, it is just downright dangerous for your pet not to do so. If you stop abrubtly, say hit another vehicle, tree or some other thing your dog will become a projectile and get sent flying into/through a window or windshield.
> PLEASE reconsider if you are not using something today!!
> 
> Off my soapbox.


I agree with everything you have typed in this reply. Physics in motion...

I would love your set-up Hank. Here is someone who did something similar.
http://www.adopt-a-greyhound.org/advice/autoprotect.html


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## Joe and Sam's Mom (Sep 2, 2007)

Mine have harnesses in the back seat. They can move around as much as they want, but are safe. They have a big cozy comforter and usually just snuggle up for the ride! I drive long distances with them on my own often and a concern has always been what they would do if there were an accident and I was unable to tend to them. If the door was opened would they bolt? 

Also if I were to have to stop quickly, they could get hurt falling from the seat. 

My sister has a friend whose 17 yr old son is in the hosptial in an induced coma because in a collision his friend in the back seat, who was not belted in, became that projectile and hit him in the back of the head before going through the windshield. Tragically, the passenger died, and the outcome for the son is not yet known.

I'm not a physicist but I'm sure someone could tell us the equivalent weight on impact of a dog, when thrown at speed.... 

They are also not allowed to ride with heads out the window. If a tiny pebble can cause a crack in a windshield or a dent in the hood of my car, imagine what it could do to a dog's eye!

Sorry for the tone of this,  but it is just so important. Not many of us would our children ride unbelted anymore. Pets are no different.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Oh, of course the force of the dog is much more than it's weight when it becomes a projectile. I once had a few numbers, but I hate math and have since lost the information. I could have one of our Grad students figure it out though. We're Tippy, I'll bet he can do the math! I won't even try.

I'm not sure of the reliability of this site:
http://www.paddocktalk.com/news/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=59788
"Using 60-pounds as an example of a belted dog (a Labrador perhaps?), and assuming that the dog’s seat belt/harness will stretch to allow a stopping distance of 1.5 feet, the forces are as follows:

At 30 mph: 1,204 pounds of force
At 60 mph: 4,817 pounds of force

That’s a lot of flying fur! However, if an animal is tightly restrained and can’t travel any great distance during a sudden stop, the forces are considerably less."

And I think this is if they are restrained using a harness of some type.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/carcr2.html#cc3


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

I was just going to not respond to this thread so I wouldn't be called names for not restraining my dogs but I know the facts and truly want them to be safe.

I have tried several types of restraints/harnesses, my boys managed to tangle themselves so much that it became more of a distraction to me and therefore a crash risk. It's unsafe to be turning around checking to make sure your dog isn't strangling going 65 down the interstate.

Other restraints were so difficult /confusing to get on your dog, you had to be a bear wrestler or a rocket scientist to manage.
I also tried crates in the car when they were small and Selka became so traumatized by riding in the crate in the car, he wouldn't go into it again in the house.

So yes, I am a terrible mother. I have taken them to the vet with out a seat belt and feel horribly guilty. I know I need to figure something out before I go to CO. again. Otherwise I haven't been taking them anywhere except to the vet.

I know it isn't safe to have them lay down in the back. I know they become a projectile in an accident. I am not stupid so if someone has a harness that they can't possibly tangle themselves in or choke/strangle but still allows them to move around, let me know.
My husband is tired of me wasting money on systems that don't work.


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## K9 Passion (Jan 2, 2009)

Debles-

I have a picture of my two in their harnesses & a special strap that connects to their harness & then to a hook in the SUV, but it's on my website & I can't post a link to my site on here. It's really difficult to describe without seeing the pictured. They can sit, stand, lie down, yet are very secure. No strangling.


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

Celeigh said:


> Mine ride in the back of my SUV, but I'm rethinking that after a car crash locally last week:
> 
> http://www.ocregister.com/articles/dog-quesada-accident-2334994-vehicle-explorer
> 
> The pictures accompanying the article, while they don't show the dog, do show the yellow sheet and the anguish on the owner's face. So sad.



That's awful  

I have just figured out a good way to tie their leash/ez walk harness to the seatbelts in the back and that restrains them pretty well. They don't stick their heads out the window either, mainly because I have a coupe and the front windows are kind of too far for them to reach from the back, but also because I can't imagine that's very safe..


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## Karma's Friend (Mar 19, 2009)

Hi! I'm the thread/poll starter here and boy am I glad I started this 'discussion'.
We've had our 5 year old Karma for a week now, after searching for a few months for the right match for our family.
All that time, and for years prior I always had the little fantasy of having a GR ride around with me in the backseat, head out the window as we headed toward the beach, or just around town, and how people would see that smiling Golden and smile at me too at red lights, give me a thumbs up as they read my bumpsticker ( which I actually DO have) which reads, 
'Who needs a therapist? I have my GOLDEN!'.....

Anyway, when we met the right dog, her owners ( who legally remain her owners for 6 months as our adoption contract states) told me me about the dangers of having a dog NOT in a crate. The word 'projectile' really stayed with me. They told me lots of scenerios that could occur aside from the dog being ejected that made sense, all of them grim so I wont go into them, but no doubt you can imagine. Even if the dog were unhurt, and the driver was hurt, can you imagine anyone trying to restrain or catch or deal with a dog while you are being attended to?
So, I bought( before we were allowed to come get her to take her home) a crate for the back of the SUV we have. I did get a car seatbelt harness thingy for $20 at Petsmart that is nice and connects to the cars seatbelt but truly I know this is not a safety restraint 'system' and I'm actually doubtful I will use it, this dog for 5 years has travelled laying down in a crate and she seems to have no interest in getting in the backseat , sitting up and looking adorable next to my daughter. I think I can easily let my fantasy go of having a GR in the backseat breathing down my neck, (which I would have loved) sharing an occassional french fry as I sneak off to eat fast food, ( dont tell my family!) and instead enjoy feeling like I'm doing the safest thing for Karma, although the back of the car seems SO far away!


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

If I could get two crates in the back of my Saturn Vue, I would do it in a heartbeat. Hank has a set-up that I love. I think he posted photos of it on this forum.


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## GRZ (Dec 4, 2008)

I wish I could use a crate...my car is too small. I use a travellin' dog seatbelt in the backseat only.


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## jennifer_rachel_2004 (Jul 7, 2008)

Neo does have a restraint harness that he uses when he rides in the car. It is a harness that hooks onto the seat belt. My mom bought it for us from petsmart after being recommended by several people and the website gave it 5 out of 5 stars. Neo being as smart as he is learned how to unhook the seat belt from the harness when Chris and I get out of the car to get things like gas. He is soo goofy. Although we are putting the bars in the back of my suv as a restraint system, the reality is we use the Honda most of the time and we felt that harness restraint that we got Neo is the best thing for the small car. On a side note Neo only rides in the backseat


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

I bumped up Hanks, "Golden Element" thread.
http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/showthread.php?t=31247


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## wabmorgan (May 6, 2008)

spruce said:


> 3 loose in back of SUVs with back seat folded down.


Same here.... except it's an extended cab Silverado.


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## Bogey's Mom (Dec 23, 2008)

For those of you who might be looking for a seatbelt, we found this one that adjusts to them at different sizes. It says it fits dogs as small as 10 pounds. 

http://www.fetchdog.com/shop/dogcartravel/dogcarseats-seatbelts/safe-traveler-harness/A40009


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## Bogey's Mom (Dec 23, 2008)

Kimm said:


> If I could get two crates in the back of my Saturn Vue, I would do it in a heartbeat. Hank has a set-up that I love. I think he posted photos of it on this forum.


My husband and I also both drive VUEs and had the same problem. We can't fit luggage and a crate in there. Have you tried the crates that are made for cars? They tend to be a bit skinnier and longer. We just went with a seat belt, but I know a lot of people who love those crates.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Mine ride in crates. When I have a 3rd dog visiting, that dog wears a seatbelt (I can't fit three crates in the car).

NEVER LOOSE.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Search the GRF for many posts on this subject. There is a lot of important information.

FYI, dogs riding loose in vehicles is my #1 pet peeve.


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## Bogey's Mom (Dec 23, 2008)

Point, do you use crates or seat belts? I know we have had MANY discussions on this topic and I still have never got a good feel for whether or not people thought seat belts were a good solution.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Bogey's Mom said:


> My husband and I also both drive VUEs and had the same problem. We can't fit luggage and a crate in there. Have you tried the crates that are made for cars? They tend to be a bit skinnier and longer. We just went with a seat belt, but I know a lot of people who love those crates.


Hank uses the crates you are speaking of. He can fit the larger size crate, or he had it made I can't remember, but I can't raise it high enough to be wide enough. Shadow is a big Golden. He's very long and very tall. If I remember correctly, I don't think he'd be able to turn around once he got in the size crate that would fit. I'll have to check that again.


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## Celeigh (Nov 29, 2007)

The crates I found online for SUVs were 21" wide and 42" long and 26" tall. Can a full sized golden turn around in 21"?


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

If you find Hank's thread I think he told me how wide his crates where. He was able to buy wider ones because he raised them up over the wheel wells. I can't do that in my car. They wouldn't be high enough. I know my two find a way to run through the agility tunnel I have from opposite directions at the same time. I have no clue how they do it!

I found the info Hank posted. I think he even gave me a link where I can purchase crates in the following thread. 

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/showpost.php?p=407306&postcount=17

I'm going to take a closer look at these.
http://www.performancedesigns.biz/


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Bogey's Mom said:


> Point, do you use crates or seat belts? I know we have had MANY discussions on this topic and I still have never got a good feel for whether or not people thought seat belts were a good solution.


Crates - airline approved crates. Not wire ones - I've seen them spring in an accident and dogs get impaled. 

If I had a vehicle that I could not fit a crate into (which is exceedingly unlikely to ever be the case), I would use a seatbelt restraint, after researching and finding what I thought the most reliable and well fitting product, or, my dogs would not ride. If there were an emergency where they had to be moved, or for a routine vet visit, I would borrow a van from my husband's shop or call the neighbor.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Kim asked me to post the sizes of the crates in my setup.

The crates are 23w x27h x36l
There is about 19 inches of space between the front seats and the rear of the crates for storage. I had a third crate custom built to fit (19x27x30) that I throw in if I need to take three dogs. I also store my soft sided crates on top of the crates and secure with a bungie. And of course I have the space under the crates for storage.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

My van is set up much the same as Hank's vehicle. A platform was built with access underneath from the rear doors, as well as from the sliding side door. I can easily fit 3 large and one medium airline crates, my utility tub with dryer, towels, etc, my generator, and my large D-Flite tack box on the platform. There is room to lay things on top of them if need be, but most everything else fits underneath - 4-5 folding wire crates for use at the show, up to 4 ex-pens, 2 tables, 2 picnic chairs, food, water, and my own luggage. I can hang a suit bag from the standard hooks in all vehicles. If I am going to an outdoor show, the folding crates stay home and I slide my E-Z up underneath, instead, OR it rides in it's bag on the roof racks. 
Dog will never ride loose.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Call a neighbor in an emergency? You've got to be kidding. When Daisy was so sick last October, I seriously doubt even if I had a crate in my car that I would have taken the time to put her in it, much less spend precious minutes waiting for someone to come over to help us.

I understand safety, but sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Jo Ellen said:


> Call a neighbor in an emergency? You've got to be kidding. When Daisy was so sick last October, I seriously doubt even if I had a crate in my car that I would have taken the time to put her in it, much less spend precious minutes waiting for someone to come over to help us.
> 
> I understand safety, but sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do.


As I said, it's not likely to ever happen that I won't have a vehicle with crates in it. I have been called by the neighbor to help them transport in an emergency - I was at their door in exactly 3 minutes, the dog was in a crate in my van within 2 minutes of having gotten there, and on the vet's table 10 minutes later. They'd do the same for me. 

I will put a dog in a crate in my vehicle in an emergency, especially if I am alone. I'd rather not have the vet visit include trauma from an accident. It's what _I _gotta do.


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## John_NY (Nov 19, 2008)

I strap Lambert down. To the hood. Like a deer.


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

Kimm said:


> Hank uses the crates you are speaking of. He can fit the larger size crate, or he had it made I can't remember, but I can't raise it high enough to be wide enough. Shadow is a big Golden. He's very long and very tall. If I remember correctly, I don't think he'd be able to turn around once he got in the size crate that would fit. I'll have to check that again.


I have a saturn outlook - one 42" x 21 and one 36"x21" crate side by side over the 3rd row of seats. If I have a third or fourth dog they ride in soft crates over the 2nd row of seats. Both my boys can turn around easily in the crates and it gives me an overwhelming flexibility in that I can leave them in their crates at a trial while I'm packing up with all of the windows down and the hatch open, I no longer have to worry about weirdos putting their hands INTO my car to pat the dogs - or worse their children's faces INTO the car to see the dogs. The have water buckets that hang in their crates - during long rides they can have water that won't spill. I can use a venti-lock to lock the hatch if I need to while we're stopped on the road - while they are safe in their spaces. I have fans that run off the power outlet to keep the air moving on them. So many advantages in addition to the safety factor.

Here's what my rig looks like with the two crates - keep in mind this was us packing up AFTER a weekend agility trial and the car was a STY! I love the space on the side of the crates for misc stuff!


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## Ninde'Gold (Oct 21, 2006)

My dog sits loosely in the back seat (usually with his head hanging out the window lol).

I was in an accident a couple months ago and Tucker was in the back. The window was wide open but as soon as I started spinning out he ducked down and stayed there and when we finally stopped moving I looked back and he sat up (still with that big goofy smile on his face haha) and asked if he was okay and such.

It was scary but it's not like accidents happen all the time. Seems he's pretty safe back there.


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

GoldenLover84 said:


> My dog sits loosely in the back seat (usually with his head hanging out the window lol).
> 
> I was in an accident a couple months ago and Tucker was in the back. The window was wide open but as soon as I started spinning out he ducked down and stayed there and when we finally stopped moving I looked back and he sat up (still with that big goofy smile on his face haha) and asked if he was okay and such.
> 
> It was scary but it's not like accidents happen all the time. Seems he's pretty safe back there.


The problem is that you don't know when an accident is going to happen. You were very lucky that one time. If the same thing happened again he could just as easily be ejected from the vehicle. 

This wouldn't be a conversation if we were talking about children - there's almost zero tolerance in this country for not using car seats and restraints with children. If you want to take the risk with your dog and your passengers that's your decision - but one minor accident does not mean he's safe riding loose with his head out the window. 

Erica


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

GoldenLover84 said:


> My dog sits loosely in the back seat (usually with his head hanging out the window lol).
> 
> I was in an accident a couple months ago and Tucker was in the back. The window was wide open but as soon as I started spinning out he ducked down and stayed there and when we finally stopped moving I looked back and he sat up (still with that big goofy smile on his face haha) and asked if he was okay and such.
> 
> It was scary but it's not like accidents happen all the time. Seems he's pretty safe back there.


It would appear that you have been exceedingly lucky in regards to auto accidents.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

MurphyTeller said:


> I have a saturn outlook - one 42" x 21 and one 36"x21" crate side by side over the 3rd row of seats. If I have a third or fourth dog they ride in soft crates over the 2nd row of seats. Both my boys can turn around easily in the crates and it gives me an overwhelming flexibility in that I can leave them in their crates at a trial while I'm packing up with all of the windows down and the hatch open, I no longer have to worry about weirdos putting their hands INTO my car to pat the dogs - or worse their children's faces INTO the car to see the dogs. The have water buckets that hang in their crates - during long rides they can have water that won't spill. I can use a venti-lock to lock the hatch if I need to while we're stopped on the road - while they are safe in their spaces. I have fans that run off the power outlet to keep the air moving on them. So many advantages in addition to the safety factor.
> 
> Here's what my rig looks like with the two crates - keep in mind this was us packing up AFTER a weekend agility trial and the car was a STY! I love the space on the side of the crates for misc stuff!


Is the Outlook bigger than the Vue? I will have to measure. I don't have a third row of seat. Just two rows. I could put the back seats down, but it would be nice if I could kept crates in there at all times by only using the back. I'd also put my groceries in there, in bags folks, and protect myself from flying cans of soup!

I can fit my extra large Vari Kennel in there, but I don't think my two would be happy in one crate. Plus, and I do think it is safer, I can't see through the darn thing!

I'm not seeing those darn wheel wells like I have. http://www.saturn.com/vehicles/2009/outlook/gallery.do

I don't have the new Vue, but this is about all the space I have W wise. http://www.saturn.com/vehicles/2009/vue/gallery.do


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

Kimm said:


> Is the Outlook bigger than the Vue? I will have to measure. I don't have a third row of seat. Just two rows. I could put the back seats down, but it would be nice if I could kept crates in there at all times by only using the back. I'd also put my groceries in there, in bags folks, and protect myself from flying cans of soup!
> 
> I can fit my extra large Vari Kennel in there, but I don't think my two would be happy in one crate. Plus, and I do think it is safer, I can't see through the darn thing!
> 
> ...


The outlook is indeed bigger than the vue. BUT - If I remember correctly when I measured the vue (years ago - before my last two saabs) I could fit one 36" lengthwise in the "back" and another 36" one parallel to it behind the 2nd row seats. One dog would get in from the side and the other would get in from the back - you'd need a double door 36" with a door on the side. Wire crates are pretty easy to see around once you get used to it...I think I had my Saturn all of an hour before I had two crates in it - I haven't seen the third row seats since!!

Erica


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## Karma's Friend (Mar 19, 2009)

When I got KArma two weeks ago, I kissed my VW bug goodbye and traded for good and forever with my husbandm now I'm driving a 2008 Kia Sorento. I keep the crate in in, it's an I-Crate with the side door opening and I keep it horizontal, I help her in and out, and when she's not in it I put groceries in it!


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## AndyFarmer (Jul 9, 2007)

Mine are loose in the backseat, so I voted backseat only, heads out the window but windows up over 45 mph.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

I'd have to put the seats down I guess. One would unload from the back and the other from the side. The back isn't roomy at all. I guess the seatbelts will stay. Thankfully they load up nicely, but Shadow always sits on the clip and then I wind up climbing over him, I get in, then click!


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## nixietink (Apr 3, 2008)

Vito is always in a seatbelt. I have a harness from Drs. Foster and Smith that is on a zip line. I like it because it allows movement but I've always wondered how safe it would REALLY be. Any opinions? FWIW, it is very sturdily made.


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

nixietink said:


> Vito is always in a seatbelt. I have a harness from Drs. Foster and Smith that is on a zip line. I like it because it allows movement but I've always wondered how safe it would REALLY be. Any opinions? FWIW, it is very sturdily made.


It's as sturdy as the handles on the ceiling - which may or may not be attached to the frame. How much line does he have? Can he lay down? My concern with giving them enough room to lay down is giving them enough room to become a wrecking ball in an accident - though I have no data to support that. The ones that clip into the belt below give the dog less slack while allowing him to sit and down.

I tried seatbelts/harness once and in the span of 15 seconds Murphy had completely hog-tied himself and was busy gnawing his way out - no thanks!

Erica


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

I can still remember when I first got into dogs I was driving a LeBaron Convertible. Brandi would sit in the passenger seat with her harness on. When I would put the top down she would put her front paws on the floor and use the windsheild as a wind guard. Although at times she would also rest her head on the door with her nose over the side taking in all the sights. The looks and smiles we would get.  Not as good as the first time I took Keeper field training in the same car. :doh: But that is another story all together.


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## kgiff (Jul 21, 2008)

Right now I have one crate in the car. If I have one dog going with me they're in the crate. More than one dog and the seatbelt harnesses come out. 

I'm eventually getting custom crates made so I can fit two crated in the back. In the rare occasion all three are coming with me, one will sit harnessed in the second row belted in. 

I live about a mile from the place we take classes and they are still secured someway on the way to class (yes, it takes longer to put a harness on and buckled in than it takes to drive to class).

MurphyTeller -- I spent a ton of time looking for pictures like that before I purchased my SUV. Can you have the second row of seats up with the crates in?


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

nixietink said:


> Vito is always in a seatbelt. I have a harness from Drs. Foster and Smith that is on a zip line. I like it because it allows movement but I've always wondered how safe it would REALLY be. Any opinions? FWIW, it is very sturdily made.


Foster and Smith apparently doesn't make that same one now. The nice one they have now looks like this :
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3307+12+113+16689&pcatid=16689

I am considering it.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

I couldn't answer the poll. I have a gate between the front seats and the back. I lay my back seats down and they ride back there.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

nixietink said:


> Vito is always in a seatbelt. I have a harness from Drs. Foster and Smith that is on a zip line. I like it because it allows movement but I've always wondered how safe it would REALLY be. Any opinions? FWIW, it is very sturdily made.


It looks like it allows more movement than I personally would be comfortable with.


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

kgiff said:


> MurphyTeller -- I spent a ton of time looking for pictures like that before I purchased my SUV. Can you have the second row of seats up with the crates in?


YES!!! That was the driving factor in getting the outlook (same thing as the GMC Acadia, Buick Enclave and the Chevy Traverse - just different headlights and rear lights and different trims) - it's an 8 passenger - and believe me it fits eight comfortably. It's got more cargo space than a tahoe...I can also carry sheets of plywood 

I always have the two crates in over the 3rd row seats and use the leg room from the 3rd row (which is ample btw) for permanent storage. The 2nd row of seats are usually up for passengers, groceries, luggage, crates, tents, etc etc. I went with the XE model as the XR model is a 7 passenger (2nd row captain's chairs) - I like the way the seats move too - 2nd row goes forward and back in two sections - and independantly...

I just couldn't do a "mommy van" but I wanted that space and flexibility. I get about 17-19 around town (on non-ethanol gas) and 24-28 on the highway.

Erica


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

Jersey is in his crate, always. We've used a few different systems over the years. He started off in the crate. When we started obedience classes we switched to a seatbelt harness (only had one crate and it got to be way too much work to haul the crate in and out and tie it down every week in the limited time I had between school and his class). The seatbelt never really worked well for us. My little Houdini was a master at stepping on the button to release the belt while we were on the highway. When I moved back home, my father helped me set up a permanent crate in the Jeep. Downside was I lost my backseat, and the metal bumper would get really slick when it rained. He was very hesitant about getting in, so I was often lifting his rear end up. 

My new car has turned out perfectly. It helped that I planned it out, took measurements, and even tested Jersey jumping into the back on the showroom floor (it helps when your brother is the one selling you the car ). I posted pictures of our setup when I first got it ( http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/showthread.php?t=38369 ). Of course there's more things loaded under and around the crate now! Best part is with one crate I don't lose any seating. If I remember correctly, by folding down the back seats and sizing down a little bit on crate size (to the size AmbikaGR uses), I'm pretty sure I can get 2 crates side by side. 

Julie and Jersey

Edited to add: Looked at my old thread, and I guess I remembered correctly. Definitely would fit 2 crates, possibly 3 if the back seats are fully removable (I still have no clue whether they are or not though).


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## Ninde'Gold (Oct 21, 2006)

Do those seatbelts allow much movement? There's no way I'd get a crate in my car and I'm sure as heck never buying a big ugly SUV. 

Tucker loves hanging his head out the window, I wouldn't take that away from him. (the windows never fully down though, even if it was he's too fat to fit through it anyway I think)

If I restrained him somehow I'd still want him to be able to have fun.


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## K9 Passion (Jan 2, 2009)

GoldenLover84 said:


> ..Tucker loves hanging his head out the window, I wouldn't take that away from him. (the windows never fully down though, even if it was he's too fat to fit through it anyway I think)..


Hanging the head out the window is hazardous for their eyes & lungs. Have you ever had a rock fly in the window while you're driving or hit the windshield? Imagine how easy that would be to fly in your dogs' face & the damage that could do.... :uhoh: I was driving 35 mph with the window down (& my head was NOT hanging out the window), & a rock flew in & smacked my sunglasses. I'm glad my head wasn't hanging out the window like a lot of dogs!


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## Ninde'Gold (Oct 21, 2006)

There's typically not a lot of rocks on the road where I live (in a city).

I suppose country roads would be much more hazardous but I dont really drive down them too much and when I do I go slow because I'm not risking ruining the paint on my car. (it already has scratches in it that made me cry  )


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

GoldenLover84 said:


> Do those seatbelts allow much movement? There's no way I'd get a crate in my car and I'm sure as heck never buying a big ugly SUV.
> 
> Tucker loves hanging his head out the window, I wouldn't take that away from him. (the windows never fully down though, even if it was he's too fat to fit through it anyway I think)
> 
> If I restrained him somehow I'd still want him to be able to have fun.


Like I said before - it's your risk - but you should really think about the excuses you're using. 

_He's too big to fit through a window_ 
So was the HS football player that wasn't wearing a seatbelt and was ejected through the back window in a roll-over. 

_We don't have rocks in the city_ 
It's not the boulders that you really need to worry about - its the flecks of asphalt, it's salt clumps, it's large pieces of sand, bits of glass from accidents, bugs, etc. I routinely have my arm on my window in the summer - I have a scar from where a chunk of something hit my arm a few summers ago (which btw has protection of the mirror in front of it). I'll accept the risk with my arm - I won't accept the risk with my dog's eye.

_He loves hanging his head out the window_
Dogs love rolling in dead things and eating poop too - just because they love something doesn't mean they get to do it all the time.

You aren't going to change your behavior - and honestly I don't care what you do with your dog. I suspect you're going to have more excuses why it's better for you to do things the way you've always done them - which is fine - but don't make up rationalizations that there's no risk to those behaviors.

Erica


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

GoldenLover84 said:


> There's typically not a lot of rocks on the road where I live (in a city).
> 
> I suppose country roads would be much more hazardous but I dont really drive down them too much and when I do I go slow because I'm not risking ruining the paint on my car. (it already has scratches in it that made me cry  )


You won't risk ruining the paint on your car, but will risk injury to Tucker's eyes?

*Is It Safe For Dogs To Ride With Their Head Out The Window?*

Posted by Dr Kris Nelson at 1/25/2009 10:19 AM 
Categories: Current Events

On January 23, 2009, The _Arizona Republic _published an article that concerns me. It suggests that it is safe for dogs to ride with their head out of the car window. The author is a dog trainer named Mark Siebel who offers the following advice, 

"Lower the rear windows only enough so the dog's head can stick out, and then lock the power window controls to restrict the windows from accidentally lowering or raising." 

Each year, many dogs suffer eye injuries from riding with their head out the window. I have treated several in my career. Small pieces of road debris or bugs hit their eyes. Conjuctivits and corneal abrasions are the most common injury. At high speeds, these particles may cause severe damage. I had one patient actually rupture their eye when it was struck by a small pebble! In addition to eyes injuries, some dogs inhale pieces of plant matter that lodge in their nasal passages. These patients can require a flush under anesthesia to remove the foreign body.

As humans, it is our duty to protect the animals in our care. Of course they want to ride with their head out the window and take in all the wonderful scents. But, we have to be the ones to set boundaries. Please do not let your pet ride with their head out the window. It is a risky behavior, whether the window is locked or not.


Siebel, Mark "Safety paramount in road trip with dog_" The Arizona _Republic, January 23, 2009


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

I learned very early on a crated dog is a safe dog. 

My first golden was in the rear of a ford escort wagon, baby daughter sleeping in the back seat. Ex hubby and I in the front. We were hit on a busy highway, in the midst of making a left hand turn, The dog jumped the back seat and ended up on my lap in the front passenger seat. We all appeared OK until the person that hit us opened my door and the dog bolted...She was is flight mode and was running up the center line of a very busy highway...how she was not struck and killed I shall never know ...long story short a passerby that had stopped drove with my ex ahead of her and the ex got out in the middle of the road and knelt down. She came right to him thankfully, but was NOT going back....

This was so traumatic and left me with a very big wake up call...No crate NO dog simple!!! Tragedy can happen in an instant.


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## Ninde'Gold (Oct 21, 2006)

I should buy Tucker some of those cute Doggie Goggles... lol


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

GoldenLover84 said:


> I should buy Tucker some of those cute Doggie Goggles... lol


 
I hope for Tucker's sake that you are always in the position where you are able to make light of it.

http://wachusett.pssweb.net/accident1.htm


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## Ninde'Gold (Oct 21, 2006)

Old junky vans like that don't have side-curtain airbags ??

Look, I appreciate your concern and realize you guys love to preach to people about how you're all the best dog owners in the world and should do what you say but for the 1 or 2 times I take my dog in the car each month I really doubt anything is gonna happen.

Accidents don't happen that often... and since I already got in one small one, what are the chances I'd get into another, probably slim, and the chances it'd happen again with my dog in the back are even slimmer.

But you can think I'm a bad dog owner all you want, I really don't care. I come home everyday to a wagging tail and kisses so thats all that matters to me.


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## bwoz (Jul 12, 2007)

John_NY said:


> I strap Lambert down. To the hood. Like a deer.


 
That's just wrong!!!!! :lol: Can't fit a crate in my car so we use a seatbelt.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

GoldenLover84 said:


> Old junky vans like that don't have side-curtain airbags ??
> 
> Look, I appreciate your concern and realize you guys love to preach to people about how you're all the best dog owners in the world and should do what you say but for the 1 or 2 times I take my dog in the car each month I really doubt anything is gonna happen.
> 
> ...


You know, it's not at_ all_ about loving to "preach to people about how you're all the best dog owners in the world and should do what you say". It's about wanting the best for the dogs. Period. Taking chances with their lives, even if "accidents don't happen that often" when it is really easy to minimize risks just doesn't make sense.

All it takes is once, and I'm not willing to play roulette with their safety.

I want nothing more than for you (and others) to continue coming home every day to wagging tails and kisses.


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## paula bedard (Feb 5, 2008)

I never used a seatbelt for Sam, shame on me, I didn't know they existed. I do have one for Ike, but he gets tangled in the thing and I worry that he'll strangle. I'm following the directions, not completely user illiterate, but need to find a better one...so right now, he's going without. Shame on me...I do worry about it. Thankfully I'm not on the road that often.


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## dannyra (Aug 5, 2008)

Just wondering how you secure the crate in the vehicle. If it's just sitting in there, you just put a larger projectile into the vehicle. Sure the projectile may only go a few feet before it hits the seats, but a few feet with 70lbs of dog is still a lot of force.


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

Pointgold said:


> You know, it's not at_ all_ about loving to "preach to people about how you're all the best dog owners in the world and should do what you say". It's about wanting the best for the dogs. Period. Taking chances with their lives, even if "accidents don't happen that often" when it is really easy to minimize risks just doesn't make sense.


GL84:
It's not preaching - no one is telling you what you HAVE to do with your dog - people are telling you (and everyone else) that the risks are real - and are providing evidence to that fact with documentation and their own personal scary experiences. If Heather's story about her accident doesn't send you running for some manner of keeping your dog in the back seat I suppose nothing will.

You are countering with excuses that luck and favorable odds are enough to keep your dog safe. You seem to truly believe that having one accident means that it is statistically impossible to have another one - that's just not reality. Never say never.

Erica


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

dannyra said:


> Just wondering how you secure the crate in the vehicle. If it's just sitting in there, you just put a larger projectile into the vehicle. Sure the projectile may only go a few feet before it hits the seats, but a few feet with 70lbs of dog is still a lot of force.


I secure mine to the cargo tie-downs with straps (similar to what folks use to secure motorcycles/sleds to their pickup beds) and then I also bungee the crates to each other. They don't move - which is good and bad - and why I never take them out of my rig. 
Erica


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## nixietink (Apr 3, 2008)

Pointgold said:


> It looks like it allows more movement than I personally would be comfortable with.


It has a way to use it as a regular seatbelt harness, but I can't figure the **** thing out. :doh:


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## kgiff (Jul 21, 2008)

MurphyTeller said:


> I secure mine to the cargo tie-downs with straps (similar to what folks use to secure motorcycles/sleds to their pickup beds) and then I also bungee the crates to each other. They don't move - which is good and bad - and why I never take them out of my rig.
> Erica


I do the same thing. Except I do occasionally take the crate out and I always wonder why when I'm trying to get it back in and strapped down tight.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

dannyra said:


> Just wondering how you secure the crate in the vehicle. If it's just sitting in there, you just put a larger projectile into the vehicle. Sure the projectile may only go a few feet before it hits the seats, but a few feet with 70lbs of dog is still a lot of force.


Mine are bungeed to eye bolts in the platform. If I am _not _using the platform, which is rare, but I have on occasion,I will bungee two together. I use airline approved crates. They are large enough that if they were not secured somehow, and were in the back of my van, they'd roll around and maybe become dented (they have some flexibility) but the wouldn't harm me, and the dogs would be safe.

*I say "bungee" but they are not the flimsy bungee cords, but rather tie downs.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

dannyra said:


> Just wondering how you secure the crate in the vehicle. If it's just sitting in there, you just put a larger projectile into the vehicle. Sure the projectile may only go a few feet before it hits the seats, but a few feet with 70lbs of dog is still a lot of force.


 
Mine are ratchet strapped (we use to call them cumberlongs) to the floor of the vehicle. I use the bars that the seats would be secured to if they were in the car and in the rear I use the tie down bars that are there. you can basicaly see it in the below photo.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Crate!!!! Safe, secure, chew proof, tangle proof... and easy to provide toys, water (in clip on buckets), and also, you can leave doors and windows open when you stop, to ventilate, and the dog cannot escape  Also ideal if you have multiple dogs to fuss with.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

My crates are lodged one in the very back, where there is NO room for it to move between the back doors and the back bench seat of my van. The others are bungeed/tied down and also lodged between seats.


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## K9 Passion (Jan 2, 2009)

Pointgold said:


> ...It's about wanting the best for the dogs. Period. Taking chances with their lives, even if "accidents don't happen that often" when it is really easy to minimize risks just doesn't make sense.
> 
> All it takes is once, and I'm not willing to play roulette with their safety....


How ironic. This is the exact point I made regarding the potential dangers of dogs swallowing balls, but you (& other members) completely disregarded that threat because it doesn't happen very often.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

K9 Passion said:


> How ironic. This is the exact point I made regarding the potential dangers of dogs swallowing balls, but you (& other members) completely disregarded that threat because it doesn't happen very often.


 
No comparison, IMO.
Actually, having been in a clinic situation for many years, it happens far more often than anyone cares to admit. I saw far too many. 
Particularly in rural areas where people allow dogs to ride loose in pickup trucks. 
Additionally, being in the position where I show dogs, by virtue of being on the road most every weekend, dog show people see it and see the benefit of crating while traveling. 

One could say the same about children I imagine - accidents don't happen very often so it's okay to let them ride unbuckled. For me, it's not just about having another car hit you - it's about the distraction of having a loose dog, and about the problems that can cause - many years ago here a man was driving on M72 with his Poodle. She was loose. She jumped up on his arm to look out the driver's side window, causing him to turn left, crossing the center line - they were hit by a semi. Both died.

Also, having been in a clinic situation, we saw socks (#1), washcloths, pantyhose, and dish towels as the items most swallowed by dogs, and never once had a situation where a tennis ball was stuck in a dog's throat. I never said it was not a possiblity, just a slim enough probablility that I'm not going to worry about it and don't think those who use them with their dogs should panic and throw them all out. 
I don't sell dog products, though, so can see how you might prefer that people would buy the balls that you might carry and toss the t-balls.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Oh...I'm compulsive about anyone riding in my car without a seat belt or car seat. Years of day care I guess. I also don't like riding with my groceries in the back. I can just see a can of soup hitting me in the head. The eggs, well, I think I'd be okay. 

I don't think I made any replies to the ball thread. I've been on the forums for so long I pick and choose what I respond to sometimes. Sometimes I respond late. Although I watch my crew carefully with balls of any type, as I mentioned, riding in cars with animals and humans is just something I get on a soap box about. My son's friends used to groan. I'd put them out if the belt didn't go, "click!"


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

interesting thread.
I've always thought mine were pretty safe but maybe I need to rethink it. They ride in the back of the SUV (mid-size), behind the second row of seats. There's no 3rd row, the vehicle isn't that big. The space they're in is just big enough to fit one large crate, but only if it's a side loading crate. All three can just comfortably lie down, but barely.
They are behind the windows that open. There is a back window in the SUV, so I think that's probably the most dangerous thing back where they are. If I got in a head-on, they'd probably hit the back window.
The vehicle has a built in pet-net (ok, really it's a cargo net designed to keep anything in the back from becoming a forward projectile in the event of an accident, gotta love German engineering) which goes from the backs of the second row of seats to the ceiling.
I wonder how in the world I could safely get 3 dogs in there except for the way I do it now. I think they're not as safe on the back seat as they are in the back end with the pet net.
Something to think about.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

hotel4dogs said:


> interesting thread.
> I've always thought mine were pretty safe but maybe I need to rethink it. They ride in the back of the SUV (mid-size), behind the second row of seats. There's no 3rd row, the vehicle isn't that big. The space they're in is just big enough to fit one large crate, but only if it's a side loading crate. All three can just comfortably lie down, but barely.
> They are behind the windows that open. There is a back window in the SUV, so I think that's probably the most dangerous thing back where they are. If I got in a head-on, they'd probably hit the back window.
> The vehicle has a built in pet-net (ok, really it's a cargo net designed to keep anything in the back from becoming a forward projectile in the event of an accident, gotta love German engineering) which goes from the backs of the second row of seats to the ceiling.
> ...


 
They are not safe at all, IMO, if unrestrained. Even if they survive an accident, if they are loose, and the vehicle has opened in any way, they chance of the running is too high. I can't tell you how many times we've helped look for dogs who ran after an accident. Some were recovered days later, some not so lucky were hit by cars.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

that's why I said "interesting thread", I need to re-think this. I'm not sure the best solution yet, but I need to give it some very serious thought.




Pointgold said:


> They are not safe at all, IMO, if unrestrained. Even if they survive an accident, if they are loose, and the vehicle has opened in any way, they chance of the running is too high. I can't tell you how many times we've helped look for dogs who ran after an accident. Some were recovered days later, some not so lucky were hit by cars.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> No comparison, IMO.
> I don't sell dog products, though, so can see how you might prefer that people would buy the balls that you might carry and toss the t-balls.


I think that was totally not cool. I was respecting everything you said, up until that point. You went from addressing the point in a logical civil manner to attacking a person's motives.

I object.


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## K9 Passion (Jan 2, 2009)

Pointgold said:


> ....
> I don't sell dog products, though, so can see how you might prefer that people would buy the balls that you might carry and toss the t-balls.


I do not carry any balls. But, if I did, it would be for the purpose of providing large/giant breeds with a safer alternative than tennis & racket-sized balls. If that shows a lack of strength in character & bad motives, then there's something I'm not understanding.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

K9 Passion said:


> I do not carry any balls. But, if I did, it would be for the purpose of providing large/giant breeds with a safer alternative than tennis & racket-sized balls. If that shows a lack of strength in character & bad motives, then there's something I'm not understanding.


 
? Who said anything about "lack of strength in character & bad motives"? 
Sheesh.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Well, honestly, I picked up the same message, Laura. You were suggesting K-9 Passion has ulterior motives. If you wanted to be totally on the up and up, you would have left off that last sentence.

Sheesh all you want. I think it was not cool and not necessary.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Jo Ellen said:


> I think that was totally not cool. I was respecting everything you said, up until that point. You went from addressing the point in a logical civil manner to attacking a person's motives.
> 
> I object.


It was not an attack, but an observation based on past postings promoting products. If the person isn't selling balls, great. I stand corrected.


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## Champ (Jun 10, 2006)

Champ sits in the backseat. For some reason he only likes to sit on the LEFT side.


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## Fidele (Sep 17, 2008)

Has anyone actually tried "doggles?" Cedar loves (or used to love) to ride with his head out the window & I'd like him to be able to still enjoy it without worrying about bugs, rocks, etc. And, yes, he rides in the back seat with a doggie seatbelt/harness secured by the regular seat belt.


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

Fidele said:


> Has anyone actually tried "doggles?" Cedar loves (or used to love) to ride with his head out the window & I'd like him to be able to still enjoy it without worrying about bugs, rocks, etc. And, yes, he rides in the back seat with a doggie seatbelt/harness secured by the regular seat belt.


The problem with doggles is that while they may protect the eyes - they don't mitigate the other risks to a dog's head and face out the window at speeds - rocks, bugs, etc. 

Erica


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

MurphyTeller said:


> The problem with doggles is that while they may protect the eyes - they don't mitigate the other risks to a dog's head and face out the window at speeds - rocks, bugs, etc.
> 
> Erica


And those darn cars that swerve much to close to you!


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Kimm said:


> And those darn cars that swerve much to close to you!


 
And the dog is stll loose in the vehicle. (A fair assumption, since if a dog is properly restrained even in a seatbelt harness he should not be able to hang his head out the window.)


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> And the dog is stll loose in the vehicle. (A fair assumption, since if a dog is properly restrained even in a seatbelt harness he should not be able to hang his head out the window.)


I think that might depend on the car. If a dog is properly restrained with a seatbelt harness, he should be able to sit. In a small sedan with the window down, that might leave room for him to lean his head out a little. 

Regardless, I agree that Doggles fail to provide sufficient protection, especially to ears and noses.

Julie and Jersey


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> And the dog is stll loose in the vehicle. (A fair assumption, since if a dog is properly restrained even in a seatbelt harness he should not be able to hang his head out the window.)


Shadow wears a seat belt and if I opened the window he could put his head out there. I have two dogs so they sit belted in the back one on each side like a passenger. They can't hang out the window, but their noses can.


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## Mandy's Dad (May 27, 2008)

Mandy's a back-seat girl! She loves to get up between us with her head, and rest it on our arm. We have a Honda Fit and when you fold down the back seat it doesn't leave any room for her to fall into a hole or anything. She likes it and so do we!


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## SF Golden (Dec 10, 2008)

Loose, but we have an SUV. He's all the way in the back so that area serves as a makeshift crate!


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Mandy's Dad said:


> Mandy's a back-seat girl! She loves to get up between us with her head, and rest it on our arm. We have a Honda Fit and when you fold down the back seat it doesn't leave any room for her to fall into a hole or anything. She likes it and so do we!





SF Golden said:


> Loose, but we have an SUV. He's all the way in the back so that area serves as a makeshift crate!


 
They are your dogs so you can do as you please but please understand the basic physics involved in your situation. If you ever hit something your dog will become a projectile and go thru a window or windshield (open or closed). I have a son-in-law who was in the back seat of a car about 18 years ago and did not have on his seat belt. When they hit a tree he has hurled into the seat and windshield in front of him and he is LUCKY to be confined to a whellchair since.


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## jennifer_rachel_2004 (Jul 7, 2008)

Wow Hank,

I just read what you posted about your Son in Law and that about brought tears to my eyes. Neo doesn't go anywhere without at least his seat belt on but after reading what you put it will defiantly make you think twice about that 2 minute car ride. Guess its always better to be safe then sorry. My prayers for your SIL.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

This thread makes me feel awful and now I'm so worried when I have Flora in the car.  I have a Corolla that just cannot fit a crate inside, but I do use an "easy rider" harness on Flora that I feel probably keeps her as safe as it can. It just lets the seatbelt go through a loop on the harness and then I buckle the seatbelt. Her movement is limited, so she usually just lies down and sleeps. I also have a hammock cover in the car that provides _sort_ of a barrier between her and the windshield, although I guess it probably wouldn't do much.

Some of the ways you guys have your cars set up are just really incredible!


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

kdmarsh said:


> This thread makes me feel awful and now I'm so worried when I have Flora in the car.  I have a Corolla that just cannot fit a crate inside, but I do use an "easy rider" harness on Flora that I feel probably keeps her as safe as it can. It just lets the seatbelt go through a loop on the harness and then I buckle the seatbelt. Her movement is limited, so she usually just lies down and sleeps. I also have a hammock cover in the car that provides _sort_ of a barrier between her and the windshield, although I guess it probably wouldn't do much.
> 
> Some of the ways you guys have your cars set up are just really incredible!


Why feel awful? You are using a harness ans securing your girl as safely as you can. Understand nothing is 100% safe. Even in a crate they are "free" to be tossed about in the crate in an accident. As with everything when it comes to our dogs, we each can only do what we believe to be best for our dog.


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