# Dogs fighting at dog park



## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

Lately, there have been dog fighting at the dog park I take Buddy to that have never fought with each other before. It is the same group generally so it is not that a new dog caused unrest. No one has been hurt. Thank God. The dogs involved are all altered so it is not unneutered vs. neutered. Majority of the time it is male-male though. No one knows why this is occurring so we don't know how to stop it. No one ones their dog to get hurt. It is different breeds too. Mostly larger dogs but dogs are of equal size- Lab, German Shepards, Huskies, Malamutes, Goldens. These dogs have played with each other for +6 months even before I started going there with Buddy. I almost think they have decided to pull rank on each other. It does not seem to be toy related either.

Any ideas would be appreciated.


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

MikaTallulah said:


> Any ideas would be appreciated.


 
Stay away?


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Wyatt's mommy said:


> Stay away?


Agreed.. I honestly would not be interested in trying to fix this.. I'd just stay far, far away!


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

Wyatt's mommy said:


> Stay away?


I generally only take him once a week. He loves to go to wrestle and play with the big boys instead of my Yorkies. 

I am thinking we the owners maybe causing it to increase in frequency since we are on edge. 

Skin has never been broken yet between dogs but owners have been bitten putting their hands in the middle between the dogs.

Buddy avoids the fights- He runs and hides in the bushes.

I have been told to dump water on the dogs or use an object to block the 2 dogs. You can also lasso each dog and pull them away with leashes. I was always told if these things don't work then grab the dogs back legs of each dog and pull to separate. Pulling the legs into the air and dragging the dogs apart.

I am getting tired of breaking up fights that don't even include my dog who is rolling a ball on the ground by himself or hiding when the fighting happens.


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

I would hate for this to escalate and cause the park to be closed. These are dogs that regularly social with each other outside the dog park, too. But only fight at the park the last 2-3 weeks.


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

MikaTallulah said:


> I have been told to dump water on the dogs or use an object to block the 2 dogs. You can also lasso each dog and pull them away with leashes. I was always told if these things don't work then grab the dogs back legs of each dog and pull to separate. Pulling the legs into the air and dragging the dogs apart.


Holy crap! Why would anyone want it to escalate to this? Buddy is the smart one and I think he is trying to tell you something.


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## Tennyson (Mar 26, 2011)

MikaTallulah said:


> I generally only take him once a week. He loves to go to wrestle and play with the big boys instead of my Yorkies.
> 
> I am thinking we the owners maybe causing it to increase in frequency since we are on edge.
> 
> ...


Geeze MT!! Why the heck are you subjecting yourself and Buddy to that crap? Lasso? Pulling back legs?
That is a disaster waiting to happen.......for both you and Buddy. 
Find Buddy a couple of playdates on either your's or their property. 
If not...rough-house Buddy yourself.


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

Wyatt's mommy said:


> Holy crap! Why would anyone want it to escalate to this? Buddy is the smart one and I think he is trying to tell you something.


I know. Thankfully the dogs gave been unharmed. The people put their hands in the fight to grab collars. I would never to that. As soon as a person got bit the dogs have immediately stopped and the fight was over. Both owners would leave.

I know he is smarter than me but I hate to see anyone injured. What would cause dogs that have never fought before to suddenly start to fight with each other?


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

Tennyson said:


> Geeze MT!! Why the heck are you subjecting yourself and Buddy to that crap? Lasso? Pulling back legs?
> That is a disaster waiting to happen.......for both you and Buddy.
> Find Buddy a couple of playdates on either your's or their property.
> If not...rough-house Buddy yourself.


I am a glutton for punishment I guess. Most of us do not have actual fenced yards so playmates at our homes would not work especially when we know the guys like to play rough. I have invisible fencing for Buddy so I would not risk him getting zapped during play.

I used go take him to a fenced off horse pen area for play dates but can't anymore since the owners are using it for grazing and lessons now 

How do you you prevent a dog fight from happening? It is almost like the play suddenly escalates into something else. 

I can't rough house with him myself because he is not to jump on people a big habit of his.


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

MikaTallulah said:


> I am a glutton for punishment I guess. Most of us do not have actual fenced yards so playmates at our homes would not work especially when we know the guys like to play rough. I have invisible fencing for Buddy so I would not risk him getting zapped during play.
> 
> I used go take him to a fenced off horse pen area for play dates but can't anymore since the owners are using it for grazing and lessons now
> 
> ...


Do you have any schools in your area? The schools out here are all fenced in.


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## Jennifer1 (Mar 31, 2012)

I agree about not going back, but:
My understanding is if you think this might be play escalating, then stop the play before it reaches that point. Get the dogs temporarily doing something else if they are getting too worked up.
Is it happening near the owners? Could be that a dog is getting upset by dogs playfighting too close to it's person? Or if the person is paying attention to a dog other than their own.

Also, NEVER reach for the collars. I was told by a guy who trains dogs for policy/prisons that the best way is to grab the hind legs, lift up and pull apart (sort of like a wheel barrow).

Is there by any chance a female in heat somewhere in the park? Not necessarily with your dogs, but just around?

I understand your wanting your dog to play, but I'm not a fan of dogparks, but I'm lucky I have friends with dogs that we've known for years our dogs are actually a pack! They are even getting a rhodesian ridgeback puppy that was born the same day as my golden puppy!


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Play can escalate into fights as they get too excited. It's a good idea for the owners to take their dogs away for a few minutes every now and give them a break so it keeps the excitement at a safer level.


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

Wyatt's mommy said:


> Do you have any schools in your area? The schools out here are all fenced in.


No dogs allowed! The school janitors will actually call the cops on you. God forbid Little Timmy steps on poop during play. 

Yes before you ask even after hours. The schools don't want the liability of someone gets hurt.

It took me a while to even find this place. Buddy loves to run and play with other big dogs. He previously lived with a lab and pit bull-Boston terrier mix. When it gets too rough he hides or runs to the other side of the park and plays by himself. 

Running can be done with retrieving at home but he doesn't stay focused for very long 10-15 minutes at the moment. However, while at the dog park he will chase after the balls for hours- He is the quick ball hog.


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

Jennifer1 said:


> I agree about not going back, but:
> My understanding is if you think this might be play escalating, then stop the play before it reaches that point. Get the dogs temporarily doing something else if they are getting too worked up.
> Is it happening near the owners? Could be that a dog is getting upset by dogs playfighting too close to it's person? Or if the person is paying attention to a dog other than their own.
> 
> ...


Thanks 

I do use the wheelbarrow technique however others keep putting their hands where they don't belong 

I think it is play escalating especially since as quick as it happens it often ends before people can get there. I say keep your dog busy myself. I am one of the few owners that keeps eyes on my dog at all times. Probably one of the reasons why Buddy is never involved.

It can also be jealously too.

Nope no in heat females I am aware of. The dog park not in a residential area.

All of his doggie friends are from the dog park. Could a pack just suddenly decide they don't like each other. I have never encountered this before of course Lucky was off leash trained and could safety play in an unfenced area so a dog park type environment was not needed. Lucky's past friends are too old for Buddy's 3 year old play now.

If it was Buddy involved I would never go back and I could see a behaviorist with him but it is thank God not my dog.

The fights aren't an everyday thing.


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

Vhuynh2 said:


> Play can escalate into fights as they get too excited. It's a good idea for the owners to take their dogs away for a few minutes every now and give them a break so it keeps the excitement at a safer level.


I think this is why Buddy doesn't get involved. Make sure to keep him engaged and moving. Roughy play for a few minutes only then I say "Buddy- Get the ball" and throw it so off he goes.

When I need a break or think he does I have him down stay at my feet. I go to the dog park for Buddy not me. Others seem to go for themselves.

So it seems the other owners need to stop talking and start engaging with and monitoring their own dogs. So far it seems correctable- Right?


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

MikaTallulah said:


> I think this is why Buddy doesn't get involved. Make sure to keep him engaged and moving. Roughy play for a few minutes only then I say "Buddy- Get the ball" and throw it so off he goes.
> 
> When I need a break or think he does I have him down stay at my feet. I go to the dog park for Buddy not me. Others seem to go for themselves.
> 
> So it seems the other owners need to stop talking and start engaging with and monitoring their own dogs. So far it seems correctable- Right?


The other day my bf and I were at the dog park with Molly and we saw two guys walking alone, and we thought they were just strolling in a dog park with no dogs. One of the guys ended up turning around and walking back pretty far to try to find his dog. My bf said, "how can you not know that your dog is no longer with you?" :no: 

I never planned on taking Molly to the dog park, but in Seattle, water access for dogs is only allowed at dog parks. I never take my eyes off of her because I don't know what she could get into.


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

Vhuynh2 said:


> The other day my bf and I were at the dog park with Molly and we saw two guys walking alone, and we thought they were just strolling in a dog park with no dogs. One of the guys ended up turning around and walking back pretty far to try to find his dog. My bf said, "how can you not know that your dog is no longer with you?" :no:
> 
> I never planned on taking Molly to the dog park, but in Seattle, water access for dogs is only allowed at dog parks. I never take my eyes off of her because I don't know what she could get into.


Exactly why I never let him out of my sight or have him stay next to me when I go to talk to other owners. He actually leans on me while I talk to them or lays my feet. He is such a good boy. I also do so much more training with him than others do which I think is why he is like Ghandi and just avoids it all because he doesn't want me on top of him all the time.

Other people are idiots. Most people use the dog park as the only form of excercise their dog gets. I use it to supplement Buddy's.


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## Sydney's Mom (May 1, 2012)

The park that we walk in twice daily has a dog park and I can sympathize that you don't have a place for him to play with other dogs at home.

I've seen Sydney get too riled up while playing - just last night an owner of a 1 year old golden male asked me to take her away because she was jumping on him too much - but I'm trying to make sure I'm always watching and making sure she's not getting over stimulated. When she does I give her a time out... 

Maybe that's part of the problem here -- TOO much excitement!


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

In addition to dog fighting and injuries at dog parks, consider than diseases can also spread there. Back in the late 90s when a dog park opened very close to our house, we took our Golden there. A dog continually humped him and the other owner said "oh he*l, dogs will be dogs" when we asked him to control his dog. We left immediately. Several days later our dog developed a sore, we took him to the vet and it was a ringworm. I asked if he might have contracted this from the new dog park, and she replied yes and advised us to stay away from dog parks. Her practice got new clients thanks to that dog park because it is the closest veterinary clinic to it--lots of emergency surgeries. 

That same dog park had a stabbing one weekend. An idiot brought an aggressive pit to the park, kept the pit on leash (????) and the pit went after an Aussie dog and the owner. The Aussie was severely injured and the owner grabbed his knife to defend himself, accidentally stabbing the other owner in the face. Police were called, the guy defending himself was arrested. So many people were outraged by the fact the guy was arrested and the other owner was at fault for bringing an aggressive dog and keeping him on leash against dog park rules that the paper was buzzing for days. The Aussie owner decided to present the pit owner with his dog's surgery bill and she decided to ask the DA to drop charges at that point. IMO, it's just not worth it to deal with questionable dogs and even more questionable owners.


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## Tennyson (Mar 26, 2011)

There's just to many questionable owners and diseased canines at parks.
I took Mick once and that was enough. He got the crap kicked out of him while the owner sat on a bench with a beer can and cigarette. I got the "dogs being dogs." line from the moron.
There are a lot of ball fields in my area that are fenced. When he was younger Mick and his buddy Larry would rough-house in the off seasons. Never was confronted by officials.
Now his buddies come to shoot the breeze with him in my backyard that's fenced.


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

Just one question? Are you waiting until something bad happens to Buddy before you decide not to return? 

Buddy is telling you that he is not enjoying the level at which these dogs are interacting. He is giving you direction.


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

BayBeams said:


> Just one question? Are you waiting until something bad happens to Buddy before you decide not to return?
> 
> Buddy is telling you that he is not enjoying the level at which these dogs are interacting. He is giving you direction.


It does not happen every time we go but when it does we leave. 

I was really just looking for suggestions for possible causes why the fighting is breaking out between dogs who are normally very friendly with each other and ways to avoid it from occurring. It seems like I am doing everything right to keep Buddy from getting involved.

I answer your question no I am not waiting for something to happen to Buddy to decide to stop going. I have cut down the amount of time I take him per week. If is see certain dogs I just don't take him into the park and go a different day. Buddy is very submissive to others so he avoids the trouble were as more dominant dogs are the ones bickering. 

It seems like it is overexcitement that is causing it and the owners need to stop talking and keep better tabs on their dogs and their behavior. I kind of thought this already but just wanted to confirm it. 

Thanks all


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## eslucky (May 10, 2012)

I stopped going to dog parks years ago after witnessing a horrific fight that did not end well for one of the dogs. I don't even like to think about it still. 

Vegas has dog parks all over the place but more and more people are steering clear of them. 

I wish I had a better answer for you. I take our dogs to the desert here where we don't run into anyone except maybe a couple horses and riders every once in a while. Are there any areas like that where you could go or have a doggy play date?


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

eslucky said:


> I stopped going to dog parks years ago after witnessing a horrific fight that did not end well for one of the dogs. I don't even like to think about it still.
> 
> Vegas has dog parks all over the place but more and more people are steering clear of them.
> 
> I wish I had a better answer for you. I take our dogs to the desert here where we don't run into anyone except maybe a couple horses and riders every once in a while. Are there any areas like that where you could go or have a doggy play date?


I wish there was but Buddy is not off leash trained and doesn't reliably come when called. We are working on it everyday.


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## FinnTastic (Apr 20, 2009)

What about a fenced in tennis court or a neighbor's house is is willing to let you use their fenced yard?


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Mika*

Mika

What about a fenced school yard, tennis court, at night?
I personally would stop going to the dog park with this happening. Could be that the owners are just not involved in watching their dogs. I agree that Buddy is clearly not enjoying himself. Do any of your neighbors have a dog/dogs that Buddy gets along with or could get along with and do they have a fenced yard? Could you ask to bring Buddy by some time to run and play?


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

There is such a thing as 'too much dogpark'. There are some owners who 'exercise' their dogs solely at the dogpark because it is either too much trouble to leashwalk their dog, their dog 'likes' it, or they go there for the human interaction. This puts a lot of stress on the dog, he has no 'down time' he has no time to just unwind, and relax, he is always 'up' and he gets tired and cranky- and the fights can be because some of dogs REALLY do not want to play and the others are 'insisting'. Dogs also accumulate stress, it takes two to three days without re-exposure for a dog to truly 'unwind' from an 'incident', whether it is a fight, or a fear based reaction. 
Ask around next time you are at the dogpark - see how often they bring their dogs to the dogpark, it may be at least part of the problem. 
You might also suggest try splitting up the 'pack' - take 1/2 the 'pack', or 3 or 4 dogs, that play well together, (play style and energy levels 'match'), off to another area of the dogpark. You can also work on 'time outs' - if ALL are willing, where the owners get their dogs back to them, have them settle their dogs,(leash them if necessary) and just chill for 10 - 15 minutes - then release them to go play.


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## Wagners Mom2 (Mar 20, 2012)

Wyatt's mommy said:


> Stay away?


That was my first thought as well. Hate it....truth be told the "culprits" should stay away, but if they won't, then I wouldn't want any part of it.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

Are all the dogs that get into it with each other about the same age? It may be that some or all of the dogs are reaching social maturity, a point at which they begin to show their mature personality, which may be dog aggressive. Or some pups may be losing their puppy license and don't like that. It is quite common that dogs who play together as pups or young dogs decide they don't really like each other as adult dogs (typically not a problem for Goldens or well bred Labs).

For many dogs, when they reach social maturity, things like hierarchy become important. When two dogs are playing, the hierarchical dynamic can be stable, but add a third dog and that dynamic becomes unstable and fights break out. My Dexy was a confident neutered male who had many friends and was a live and let live kind of guy (typical Golden personality). He had a much younger friend Sam who was likely a Lab/some kind of wire haired terrier mix. Sam and Dexy played very well together with Sam eagerly respecting Dexy's higher status based on his age. One day on a walk we ran into Sam playing with another young dog. Those two were playing very nicely with each other. When we got close to the play and Sam recognized Dexy, Sam went after the other dog aggressively. It was almost like Sam was trying to impress Dexy. Who really knows. Dog dynamics are rather opaque and get much more so when there are more than two dogs.


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

Selli-Belle said:


> Are all the dogs that get into it with each other about the same age? It may be that some or all of the dogs are reaching social maturity, a point at which they begin to show their mature personality, which may be dog aggressive. Or some pups may be losing their puppy license and don't like that. It is quite common that dogs who play together as pups or young dogs decide they don't really like each other as adult dogs (typically not a problem for Goldens or well bred Labs).
> 
> For many dogs, when they reach social maturity, things like hierarchy become important. When two dogs are playing, the hierarchical dynamic can be stable, but add a third dog and that dynamic becomes unstable and fights break out. My Dexy was a confident neutered male who had many friends and was a live and let live kind of guy (typical Golden personality). He had a much younger friend Sam who was likely a Lab/some kind of wire haired terrier mix. Sam and Dexy played very well together with Sam eagerly respecting Dexy's higher status based on his age. One day on a walk we ran into Sam playing with another young dog. Those two were playing very nicely with each other. When we got close to the play and Sam recognized Dexy, Sam went after the other dog aggressively. It was almost like Sam was trying to impress Dexy. Who really knows. Dog dynamics are rather opaque and get much more so when there are more than two dogs.


The dogs range in age from 1 year to 8 years old mostly. Majority though are between the 2 to 4. I hoping it was just the sudden heat wave that got into them all. It is much quieter now that it is not so hot.


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## mayapaya (Sep 28, 2011)

I was going to suggest the same thing Karen mentioned. Do you even have any friends close by with a fenced in yard, that is reasonable driving distance? I have not had to visit a dog park, as my two have their own built in playmates. Also, I have 8 dogs living in my cul-de-sac alone, who all get along famously, so we occasionly create our own "neighborhood" dog park in one of our backyards! Pror to Payton's arrival, I did take Maya to doggie day care on occasion, but that was after some thorough research and selection. I'm concerned about most of the dog parks in our area, as they don't have any requirements on vaccinations/flea tick treatments/temperment etc, and any yahoo can bring their dogs in.


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

mayapaya said:


> I was going to suggest the same thing Karen mentioned. Do you even have any friends close by with a fenced in yard, that is reasonable driving distance? I have not had to visit a dog park, as my two have their own built in playmates. Also, I have 8 dogs living in my cul-de-sac alone, who all get along famously, so we occasionly create our own "neighborhood" dog park in one of our backyards! Pror to Payton's arrival, I did take Maya to doggie day care on occasion, but that was after some thorough research and selection. I'm concerned about most of the dog parks in our area, as they don't have any requirements on vaccinations/flea tick treatments/temperment etc, and any yahoo can bring their dogs in.


Unfortunately, he is too much dog for the other dogs in the immediate neighborhood. They are mostly overweight and older if similar size to him- Compared to a rambunctious 3 year old-Not a good fit- Or much smaller than him so he just goes off by himself to self amuse- He never plays rough with little ones.

I am trying to get him into the water (rivers, lakes, reservoirs) then we can go swimming with a local Newfie group to tire him out. Right now he is a beach comber . He is a afraid of the water and it is too cold for me to go in and encourage him to follow. 2 of the Yorkies will run into the water to swim. Hopefully, they will get into go in eventually.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Buddy*

How is Buddy doing? Did you ever change his name? Can't find the thread.


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

Karen519 said:


> How is Buddy doing? Did you ever change his name? Can't find the thread.


Nope I still can't decide on the AKC NAME.
http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...scussion/115451-ideas-name-change-wanted.html
http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/golden-retriever-pedigree/115440-name-change.html


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