# Horrible Breeder-Canada



## mom4life

We have had a poor breeder experience and I wanted to find a way to vent my frustrations as well as warn others. We put a deposit down on a pup. Pup ended up being extremely sick upon our receipt. He had campylobacter and clostridum bacterial infections. We bought an english cream golden retriever and had him shipped to our nearest international airport. That was our first mistake...not visiting the kennel in person. We had our reasons for not visiting (mostly due to time [14+ hour drive] and time of the year [winter]), plus we had checked references by email and by phone. Breeder has been breeding for 40 years and is even a judge. We thought everything was in check. Mom and Dad both had clearances and were champions. Our pup was only 5.5 pounds in weight upon our receipt. Pup was 9 weeks old at that time. We visited our vet several times that first week we had the pup, spending around $300.00 for tests and eventually, medicines. We sent our remaining balance owed minus the $300.00 and the breeder had a fit! Threatened to take us to small claims court, etc, because it says in her contract that she cannot be held responsible for vet bills/costs. Our comeback was that her contract also stated as #1. This breeder guarantees this pup to be in good health. Well...we thought that pretty much voided the contract, since the pup was not in good health. Anyway, after many back and forths and not so pleasant phone conversations, we sent her the rest of the money because we didn't want to deal with her anymore. We just wanted our new baby to be happy and healthy. So we concentrated our efforts on our new family member, who i am proud to say today is almost 8 months old and weighs 58 pounds! If anyone wants to know the name of the Canadian breeder, please ask and I will supply. Our only recourse in this (besides having a happy, healthy, beautiful, intelligent, etc new family member) was to be able to let others know about her poor breeding practices, at least with our instance. I hope this never happens to anyone else.


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## KatzNK9

Hello and welcome to the forum. Great to have you with us. So sorry you had to go through all that but I'm glad to know your pup go the care needed & that you're happy with your new pup. I'd love to see pics!


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## mom4life

I'd love to share pictures. Our baby is beautiful. I will have to look into this a bit more because I'm a bit "chat room illiterate". I'm not sure how to link photos.


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## lgnutah

Welcome to the forum.
Thankfully you were willing to give the puppy proper medical care and a loving home. We look forward to pictures once you get it figured out. Someone will post the directions for you. If not, go to the administrators section and ask them for instructions.


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## RickGibbs

Hello and welcome to the forum! :wave:

Unfortunately, there's lots of similar stories out there....


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## vrocco1

A 9 week old pup that is only 5.5 pounds is a bad sign. However, those types of infections sometimes appear to respond to treatment, and then the puppies suffer a relapse. Hopefully, the breeder did not do it intensionally, but, I can't believe that they would not pay for the treatment.

Welcome to the forum! It sounds like you have a healthy doggie now. We could use some pictures.


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## cubbysan

Sorry to hear about your experience. It sounds like though your puppy landed in the correct hands. 

I am just curious if the breeder had given you the vet records of the puppy and if you contacted the vet.
Whenever I have bought a dog or cat over the past 20 years, no matter who it was from, I always had the date of the last vet check and the name, number, address of the vet.


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## mom4life

Here I am again posting a reply. Regarding the issue of recurrence of the illnesses, yes, it can and has happened. Our dog receives a pinch of Tylan powder twice a day just sprinkled on top of his bowl. It has been trial and error. So far, he went without powder for 2 days and the diarrhea, loose stools and other illness symptoms returned. So we've resorted to the fact that he will have to have the Tylan powder for an undefined amount of time. We were giving him one scoop of yogurt at each feeding, too. Fortunately we've stopped that without any consequences. Tylan powder seems to be the key right now.

Regarding vet records and checks, yes. She supplied us with vet records and information. Unfortunately we did not receive that information until we had the pup in our possession. She shipped the paperwork with him. Some of it seemed suspicious to us and to our vet. For instance, the weight of the pup before shipping was stated to be 10-something pounds. WAY OFF! When questioned about the weight on the paperwork, she stated she filled that out and it was only a "guestimate". I asked her if she owned a scale and she said, "Don't patronize me." Huh. A little defensive. I had thought about contacting her vet office myself but it was at about that point that we decided to let it go and concentrate on our baby. I have contacted the Golden Retriever Club of Canada, only to be told she is a member "in good standing" and has been for many years, that she has paid all her dues, and that they could not do anything more about our situation because it was a civil matter.

I'm inclined to think this may have been done on purpose because we purchased a "pet quality" versus a "show quality". Like I said prior, both mom and dad were champions and perhaps there really wasn't a "pet quality" within the litter, so this may have been done in hopes she would receive the pup back (which I might add was the only option she gave us when she contacted us about being shorted $300) and would have to ship another "pet quality" pup to us that was actually "pet quality". Now...I don't know anything at all about conformation or the show ring. I couldn't tell you anything at all about our dog's angles, movement, bone, etc. Perhaps he is only "pet quality" but we love him nonetheless, and he is every bit as beautiful to us as any other "show golden" (just a proud momma talking here!).

The bottom line about the breeder is she just has way too many dogs and not enough resources (time, money, help, etc.). Sometimes I guess you just have to "live and learn". 

So, here are some links to photos of our dog. I don't have anything really recent yet. The first one is in the middle of February. The second and third were both taken in the middle/end of April.

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x288/mom4life02/2-13-07a.jpg
http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x288/mom4life02/April2007.jpg
http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x288/mom4life02/Blizzard4-07.jpg

Sorry for the novel, everyone. Enjoy!

mom4life


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## Jazzys Mom

Oh he is just gorgeous! Lookes very much like Tilly, another Golden on this forum - her mom is Emma. What is his pedigree? He sure looks like his mom has taken very good care of him! BTW - Welcome to you both!

Jazzys Mom


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## tintallie

You can't tell if a puppy is show or pet quality at that age 

When we received Wiggles, he had loose stools and the breeder claimed it was gastric upset from stress. Wiggles had bad diarrhea on any kibble and when we switched him to a raw diet it disappeared immediately. Not that raw is for everyone, but it worked for us. To this day, I refuse to feed anything with corn or wheat in it to him as something as small as a treat has caused his stools to go mushy again. We went through a lot of different foods in the span of 6 weeks and it was very frustrating.

I have to admit it will be tough finding a breeder the next time round since Wiggles' breeder is friends with some of the ones in the area and I'm not sure if I feel comfortable with some of the things I eventually saw.

Please continue posting pictures of your new pup though  the forum is a great place for advice and help! (it's addicting...)


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## Sunshine Goldens

Your puppy is absolutely STUNNING!!! I am so sorry you had a bad experience. There are some terrific breeders on this forum that have taught us all a LOT! I hope you will enjoy your time here and share more pictures of your beautiful baby!


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## cubbysan

Your dog is beautiful.

Don't apologize for the novel, we all learn from others experiences. There are a lot people that come to this board when they are starting their search for a breeder. 

Thanks.


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## Chaucer and Mom

Your baby is beautiful and lucky to have you. I had a similar situation with Chaucer. 

Chaucer came to me in the wake of the death of my wonderful Golden, Webster. I was beyond the beyond with grief and felt bereft without a dog in my home. After doing some research, I decided to look for an English type Golden Retriever. My breeder came recommended by a breeder who had been recommended by the former president of the GRCA. The breeder who recommended Chaucer's breeder lives in the south. My breeder in MA. 

I'm an experienced dog owner and have to take responsibility for my stupidity and blindness. I knew my breeder's house was disgusting. I mean filthy, littered. But, I had sent her a deposit before I visited her. And even more importantly, I was hell-bent on getting a dog who had no American bloodlines because I believed I might be spared the agony of losing a beloved pet to cancer. In retrospect, I think I was so incredibly grief-stricken that I had no ability to be rational. And what I didn't know was that this breeder had been kicked out of the Yankee Golden Retriever Club because of the conditions in her house.

Chaucer came to me with a huge round-worm infestation, whip worms, coccidia, giardia and one more I can't remember. I believe his stomach has been permanently damaged by the parasites he lived with. X-rays have indicated that he went through a period where he was so malnourished that it's evident in his bone. He's never had normal stools without some kind of help. I've put him on probiotics. They help for a while; and then he needs to be back on Tylan. Chaucer also has had bouts of panosteitis, possibly genetic, and was recently diagnosed with luxating patella which definitely can be genetic. One of the orthopedists I took him to told me he had "poor conformation." 

When I first got Chaucer, the breeder told me that she didn't want me neutering him as he was show material. She actually warned me a few months later that if I did neuter him, she'd give me a bad reputation in the Golden community.

I have not received any registration papers for Chaucer although I've written and called. The breeder always has some excuse or lie. She just sent them. They'll be here in a month. She's overnighted them and can't imagine what could have happened etc. etc. ad nauseum.

I wouldn't trade Chaucer for anything. He is my family and I adore him. But I've spent over $4000 on his medical bills since he came to me a short sixteen months ago; and this does not include anything surgical. 

All this goes to show....you don't have to be an inexperienced, young adopter of a Golden to be blindsided by emotion.


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## AquaClaraCanines

I am so sorry what you have been through with your obviously much loved Chaucer.


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## Abbydabbydo

*Bad Breeders*

I blamed myself, too, when Abby turned up wormy and sick at her first Vet appointment. Then on to ear infections and allergies. I concentrated on getting her well and swore to do proper research if I ever got another dog. Looking back, I wish I had pushed it more with the breeder and pet store, because if everyone ignores it, the puppymills and bad breeders just keep pumping out sick dogs. We can't let this issue die because it is immoral to breed dogs that have health issues in addition to not giving the poor pups proper treatment after they are born. Just my 2 cents.


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## DelmarvaGold

mom4life said:


> He had campylobacter and clostridum bacterial infections.


Campylobacter should be treated with Erythromycin for several weeks. As far as I am aware, that's the only medication that will work.


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## GoldenShamus

Chaucer and Mom said:


> Your baby is beautiful and lucky to have you. I had a similar situation with Chaucer.
> 
> Chaucer came to me in the wake of the death of my wonderful Golden, Webster. I was beyond the beyond with grief and felt bereft without a dog in my home. After doing some research, I decided to look for an English type Golden Retriever. My breeder came recommended by a breeder who had been recommended by the former president of the GRCA. The breeder who recommended Chaucer's breeder lives in the south. My breeder in MA.
> 
> I'm an experienced dog owner and have to take responsibility for my stupidity and blindness. I knew my breeder's house was disgusting. I mean filthy, littered. But, I had sent her a deposit before I visited her. And even more importantly, I was hell-bent on getting a dog who had no American bloodlines because I believed I might be spared the agony of losing a beloved pet to cancer. In retrospect, I think I was so incredibly grief-stricken that I had no ability to be rational. And what I didn't know was that this breeder had been kicked out of the Yankee Golden Retriever Club because of the conditions in her house.
> 
> Chaucer came to me with a huge round-worm infestation, whip worms, coccidia, giardia and one more I can't remember. I believe his stomach has been permanently damaged by the parasites he lived with. X-rays have indicated that he went through a period where he was so malnourished that it's evident in his bone. He's never had normal stools without some kind of help. I've put him on probiotics. They help for a while; and then he needs to be back on Tylan. Chaucer also has had bouts of panosteitis, possibly genetic, and was recently diagnosed with luxating patella which definitely can be genetic. One of the orthopedists I took him to told me he had "poor conformation."
> 
> When I first got Chaucer, the breeder told me that she didn't want me neutering him as he was show material. She actually warned me a few months later that if I did neuter him, she'd give me a bad reputation in the Golden community.
> 
> I have not received any registration papers for Chaucer although I've written and called. The breeder always has some excuse or lie. She just sent them. They'll be here in a month. She's overnighted them and can't imagine what could have happened etc. etc. ad nauseum.
> 
> I wouldn't trade Chaucer for anything. He is my family and I adore him. But I've spent over $4000 on his medical bills since he came to me a short sixteen months ago; and this does not include anything surgical.
> 
> All this goes to show....you don't have to be an inexperienced, young adopter of a Golden to be blindsided by emotion.


Nancy,

I'm glad you shared your story as well. I truly believe it can happen to any one of us, especially when we have just lost another.


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## Wrigley's Mom

I'm so sorry to hear about the fiasco you went through--what a mess. You were nicer than I would have been about the $300. Though I understand your wanting to focus on your pup. He is a beautiful boy for sure and I hope his health improves for good.

Can you tell us what food you're feeding him? 

I have to chime in with the person who earlier mentioned feeding raw food with no grains. Wrigley began having allergy and digestive problems last year. I was totally against/afraid of feeding raw food, but desperate times call for desperate measures. He had sores all over his tummy and back and sore ears and runny poop most of the time--especially during spring and summer. I began giving him Natures Variety prepared raw dog food. It has all the nutrients your dog needs, so you don't have to add anything to it. It's super easy to feed and Wrigley's health improved just about overnight. His allergies are doing SO much better and his digestive issues are non-existent. I think the enzymes and the fact that it's a simple protein (no fillers, no grain, no ingredients you can't pronounce, etc.) made all the difference. While Wrigley's problems were probably more allergy related than anything, the vet said for some reason, he just didn't tolerate kibble well. The raw was much easier for him to breakdown and digest, I suppose.

Having said all that--I understand that it just may not be what you want to do. In that case, I would use the kibble with the least ingredients and only one protein. For example, Natural Balance makes a Duck and Potato kibble that is grain free. It's excellent, too. California Natural makes a chicken/rice or lamb/rice kibble that I've heard good things about, too.

Just some suggestions. I've learned that while the right medication is very important, the food he's eating is really just as important.

I know how hard it is to see your pup not feeling well. I wish you the best and please post more pictures. He's a great looking boy!

Wow, this post is long...sorry for the novel.

Good luck! :crossfing


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## TheHooch

Wow 5 lbs at nine weeks. That would have got me going to the vet the minute I saw her. Mine are 11 and 12 pounds at 9 weeks this weekend and I thought they looked a little wirey.

He is a gorgeous pup and at least this little guys have a way of finding a home that will take care of them properly.

Welcome to the forum.

Hooch


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## mom4life

DelmarvaGold said:


> Campylobacter should be treated with Erythromycin for several weeks. As far as I am aware, that's the only medication that will work.


Delmarva Gold:
"We visited our vet several times that first week we had the pup, spending around $300.00 for tests and eventually, medicines." That was quoted from my first post. He had two or three rounds of erythro and something else (cannot remember the name). He is now campy and clostidium negative per our vet. Vet thinks his tummy didn't have a chance to produce enough of the "good bacteria" in the first 9 weeks of his life to counteract the "bad bacteria". So now it's trying to catch up and that's what we're hoping the Tylan powder we're using will help with. It keeps his stools firm and is giving the tummy a chance to make good bacteria.
mom4life


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## mom4life

The Hooch "Wow 5 lbs at nine weeks. That would have got me going to the vet the minute I saw her."

The Hooch:
We picked him up at our nearest International Airport, which is 4 hours away from our home, on a Thursday evening. We already had an appointment to get him checked out at the vet the very next day, even before knowing there was something wrong. We just wanted him to be checked out ASAP regardless and those plans were already in place prior to us picking him up in January. So we did get him to the vet almost immediately and we trust our vet VERY MUCH. They have a great reputation in the area and have been nothing but fantastic when we've dealt with them in the past with our cats. The rest is history...
mom4life


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## mom4life

I will be responding to Wrigley's Mom next.


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## mom4life

Wrigley's Mom wrote, "I'm so sorry to hear about the fiasco you went through--what a mess. You were nicer than I would have been about the $300. Though I understand your wanting to focus on your pup. He is a beautiful boy for sure and I hope his health improves for good.

Can you tell us what food you're feeding him?"


Wrigley's Mom:
We are feeding our dog Nutro Natural Choice Lamb Meal & Rice forumula for adults. We just recently made the switch from Nutro Natural Choice Large Breed Puppy to the adult kibble. I will have to look into the Nature's Variety stuff you are feeding. Do you know if there's a website? I could search but if you have a link, that'd be great. Let me know.

mom4life


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## CanadianGolden

tintallie said:


> You can't tell if a puppy is show or pet quality at that age


Yes you can, to a degree. While obviously it is not foolproof, nearly all puppies have very similar structure when full grown as they do at 7 weeks or so. While other flaws may show themselves later (gay tail, poor pigmentation, for instance) it is certainly possible to rule a puppy out as show quality at that age.


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## Gwen

I got my first golden over 20 years ago from what I thought was a good breeder as well. This woman, from Ontario, was respected in the Golden world & had an excellent reputation in the ring. I did have to fill in a puppy application but I don't think she read it - you want a puppy, you get a puppy. I did visit my pup at 6 weeks of age (I drove over 5 hours to get there) even though the breeder insisted that it wasn't necessary. I got to see my girl in a barn - no, her puppies weren't raised in the house - it would make too much of a mess! Well, when I did pick up my girl, we did go into the house - talk about a MESS!!!!!! I don't think that she had cleaned her house in a year or more! & SMELL!!!! She really wasn't interested in talking to us - just hand her the cash & get out of her life. Although I did try to contact her about a number of issues, she never returned my call. I've also ran into her over the years at various dog shows & she didn't even know me. After I introduced myself, she didn't even seem interested in hearing about one of her babies. That breeder continues (her main promise is that her dogs will live longer than other goldens!!!, that her dogs are quiet and laid back and that she has peagravel in her outdoor runs so that urine can be cleaned easier!!!!) and has over 50 adult dogs on site & usually more than 6 litters available on her website. EVERYTHING is dealt with in $ & cents - it's only a business to her. She pays someone to train/show her dogs in obedience just so she can get a title - any title will do - she does show her own dogs in conformation and is a professional handler but I wouldn't let her touch my dog!!!!

Yes, I did have issues with my girl - she was extremely high strung and didn't even start to mature until she was about 6 years old. So much for her quiet dogs!!!! I am a dog person & worked with Beck through the issues but a "normal" pet person looking for a "good family dog" would have just dumped her off at the local pound where the cycle would just start. As well, Beck was very food aggressive from day 1 - even though we worked with her extensively, she would stiffen up when you came near her food even at age 14!!!

When it came time to get another golden, I did much research on breeders and found myself an excellent breeder. She takes a genuine interest in who is gets one of her babies and refuses many. She also wants to be kept in the loop as to what's going on day to day and is there WHEN you need her. When I call (it might be just to tell her how we did in a trial) she knows who you are and who her baby is. She has also travelled to see one of her babies in the ring...... we are now part of her family!!!!!! and family are for life!

FYI, my boys weighed in at 10 lbs 8 oz & 11 lbs 9 oz @ 8 weeks old. I can't imagine a 9 week old puppy below 6 lbs???????


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## DanielleH

Welcome to the Forum


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## Nugget9806

cubbysan said:


> Sorry to hear about your experience. It sounds like though your puppy landed in the correct hands.
> 
> I am just curious if the breeder had given you the vet records of the puppy and if you contacted the vet.
> Whenever I have bought a dog or cat over the past 20 years, no matter who it was from, I always had the date of the last vet check and the name, number, address of the vet.


I agree. When I picked up Nugget his breeder handed me is up to date medical records (I didn't ask, she automatically provided). He was 7 1/2 weeks old, weighed 12 lbs and had already recieved his first round of puppy shots.


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## Ivrygld

*Bad experience*

One of my first experiences in the golden world was with a fairly well known breeder with top of the line website portraying beautiful dogs & puppies. Her dogs are kept outside in pens which in our warm climate is unacceptable. In any event, I should have run but I was excited about the dog and focused on that. When I was taken in the house the house, there were no screens on the windows and dogs were jumping out of the windows. Crazy! 
I learned from my mistakes and am thankful I got that dog out of the poor conditions. I often wonder what people must think when they come to pick up their puppy and see those circumstances. The dog I purchased was older, and from the behavioural issues must have been abused in some way. She was deathly afraid of men and will run like the wind if a broom falls in the kitchen. She is safe with me in her forever home. She was a breeding dog when the breeder was downsizing. Yeah right!


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## pauline

hi there,

Greetings from Ireland. Just browsing through the forum and saw your story, I too have had bad luck with my goldens I have two beautiful much loved dogs aged 7 we got them both from the same lady they are half sisters. Holly was diagnosed with cardiomyopathy about 6mths ago and her sister Misty has underactive thyroid and has recently been diagnosed with arthritis. Because Holly's condition is potentially fatal I decided 6wks ago to get another golden to soften the blow for the family should the worst occur and we became the proud owners of Ben a lovely lively 8wk old puppy. After a few days Ben became unwell and although he had his first vaccinations the vet diagnosed parvo virus. Ben battled for a week before he lost his fight. Needless to say we were all devastated as was the breeder who lost his whole litter along with refunding the vets bills and price of the puppies. I know we won't be able to get another puppy for another 9-12mths as apparently parvo stays in the soil for that length of time. I don't want to put anybody off getting a golden because of my experience, while we have had bad luck with them from a health status prospective the love and devotion they give to us more than outweigh this. I have had various dogs over the past 20 years but I would never consider another breed after owning a golden.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo

pauline said:


> hi there,
> 
> Greetings from Ireland. Just browsing through the forum and saw your story, I too have had bad luck with my goldens I have two beautiful much loved dogs aged 7 we got them both from the same lady they are half sisters. Holly was diagnosed with cardiomyopathy about 6mths ago and her sister Misty has underactive thyroid and has recently been diagnosed with arthritis. Because Holly's condition is potentially fatal I decided 6wks ago to get another golden to soften the blow for the family should the worst occur and we became the proud owners of Ben a lovely lively 8wk old puppy. After a few days Ben became unwell and although he had his first vaccinations the vet diagnosed parvo virus. Ben battled for a week before he lost his fight. Needless to say we were all devastated as was the breeder who lost his whole litter along with refunding the vets bills and price of the puppies. I know we won't be able to get another puppy for another 9-12mths as apparently parvo stays in the soil for that length of time. I don't want to put anybody off getting a golden because of my experience, while we have had bad luck with them from a health status prospective the love and devotion they give to us more than outweigh this. I have had various dogs over the past 20 years but I would never consider another breed after owning a golden.


 
Pauline, I'm so very sorry. Do a little research on Parvo. If I'm not mistaken it can live a very long time in the soil. I think longer than you have mentioned. I'm just so very sorry for your lose and for Holly's diagnosis. My nephew was diagnosed with the same nearly forty five years ago. We lost him when he was 3...


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## BeauShel

Hello Pauline,
I am sorry you lost your puppy and have a fight with Holly. Your family will be in my thoughts and prayers for your loss and troubles. Good luck int the future.


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## jonesy

Hello,

I realize your post is a year and a half old, but I wondered who this breeder is? I recently got my Audi from a woman in Ontario who sound similar.


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## mom4life

Hi Jonesy-
The breeder we purchased our dog from was Skylon. Our dog is doing wonderfully now, thanks to us. I'm certain if he would have been left at the breeders, he would be dead by now. He was covered in fleas (albeit, dead ones, but fleas nonetheless) and had a couple of big digestive issues that could have been fatal if we hadn't pursued it with our vet and took her "word" for it.
Are you having issues with your Audi?
mom4life


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## Doolin

Just thought I would chime in to Mom4life's posts. I was the used as a referral by this breeder, as I have a girl from her. I did make the 10 hour drive there, but did not get to see where the pups were whelped. I felt aweful when I heard what this family went through. I can't say I've had the most polite conversations when deciding who to breed my girl to. I eventually went my own way and think I've done amazing. mom4life, do you have any recent photos of your little boy? I also have a food recomendation based on your boys lines and what has worked great in my girl and her kids. I too have since become much more knowledgeable in the dog world and have unbelievable youngsters to work with.


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## Goldilocks

I just looked at Skylon Golden Retriever's website and they sure are producing ALOT of litters! Sounds and looks "puppymillish". I am glad to hear your Golden is healthy and thriving now.


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## Susan6953

If someone is looking for a breeder in BC Canada I got a lovely puppy from a breeder in Chilliwack.


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## Ash

Susan6953 said:


> If someone is looking for a breeder in BC Canada I got a lovely puppy from a breeder in Chilliwack.


Was that Christine Kobler?


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## tintallie

> If someone is looking for a breeder in BC Canada I got a lovely puppy from a breeder in Chilliwack.
> 
> 
> 
> Was that Christine Kobler?
Click to expand...

Ash, it is RedGold that Susan6953 is referring to. Arcane referred her to RedGold and it was mentioned in this thread: 

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/showthread.php?t=41164&highlight=redgold


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## Braccarius

I just checked the Skylon page. Holy gods green creation she is cranking out dogs. She has about 15 planned litters in the summer months.


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## Susan6953

Yes, I got Jamie from Christine Kobler. Obviously I don't know anything about show dogs but he came healthy and well socialized. Christine raises the puppies in her finished basement in a lovely box made by her dad. She only has one or two litters a year and her dogs are part of her family. We got to meet Jamie's grandmother and aunt as well as his mom of course. Her home is immaculate, much cleaner and neater than ours!

Of course whichever puppy you have is the "best". I just wish he wasn't growing up so fast!


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## LOVEisGOLDEN

my goodness he is a cutie!


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## jonesy

My Audi is healthy and happy thankfully. I got him from Skylon's owner's twin sister Jennifer McAuley of Chrys-Haefen kennels in Scotland, Ontario. I do have concerns now that the businesses may be run the same way. I must say that e-mail replies to my questions dropped off considerably after we brought Audi home. Does anyone have any further info or experiences with Chrys-Haefen? Thanks!


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## mom4life

Jonesy-
I'm glad your Audi is healthy and happy. I have no information for you regarding Chrys-Haefen. I guess if I were you, I would just be thankful Audi is healthy and not worry until there is a need to worry.
mom4life


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## daisydogmom

mom4life said:


> Pup ended up being extremely sick upon our receipt. He had campylobacter and clostridum bacterial infections.


I can't believe that I never read this thread before. Clostridium intestinal bacterial infections are so terrible. I believe that it is referred to as C. difficile in humans. My human three-year-old son contracted this NASTY, possible life-threatening infection this past fall (from visiting his grandmother in a nursing home). It is EXTREMELY contagious and difficult to get rid of. I can't imagine having a dog with this. I always wonder if other dogs with major intestinal issues are misdiagnosed and actually have this nasty infection. Did they use metrodonazole? 


I am so glad to hear that your pup is doing better!!! This must have been so scary for you. I am just so sorry you had to go through this.


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## Gwen

Braccarius said:


> I just checked the Skylon page. Holy gods green creation she is cranking out dogs. She has about 15 planned litters in the summer months.


Try looking @ her sister's website for Chrys Haefen Goldens - it makes Skylon look like a "Kindergarten"

There are presently 2 litters "For Sale" - first with a "release" date of Sept 10 - 9 puppies & 5 still available, second with a "release" date of Sept 16 - 9 puppies & 4 still available. As well, they have Mature dogs & Puppies for Sale - 06/2003, 05/2008, 2 - 04/2008 & 2 - 06/2008. They also have 14 males & 18 females shown under "Our Dogs". I didn't look further in their website but their kennel "brag" was that the dogs were housed in kennels with pea gravel that was easier to clean up urine!!!!!!!! What a brag! Also, notice that there is NO mention of any of the dogs/puppies being raised in the home!


----------



## shortcake23

mom4life said:


> If anyone wants to know the name of the Canadian breeder, please ask and I will supply.


I'd like to know who it is.


----------



## mom4life

Boy, I certainly created a stir when I "let the cat out of the bag" with the breeder's name, didn't I?! I wanted to post a little something to just to let everyone know that I did not mean to make the breeder name known publicly on this forum. I only wanted to respond to those inquiring in private (and I responded to many private messages...but it had been awhile). When I responded to jonesy last week, I had no idea I was replying in the forum. I thought I was responding to her private message. Goes to show you how much I don't know about these boards. I also wanted to let everyone know that our dog, now almost 2 years of age, weighs 80 pounds and is happy and healthy. In fact, he could probably stand to lose a few pounds (and his owners could as well!). He no longer requires the Tylan powder.

In response to daisydogmom, I honestly cannot remember if he was put on metradonazole. I'd have to reference our receipts from the vet, which are not readily available. But I'm glad you read the post, even though it's old. It was a very scary situation, especially since we have two little ones at home that could have easily picked up the illness too. Luckily, we all stayed healthy in the process while trying to get our baby well.

And Gwen's right...Chrys-Haefen is not looking any better than Skylon. Even the breeder I initially had contact with (who taught me a lot about Goldens and doing research, I might add) is now owning quite a few more dogs than she had when I was talking with her 2+ years ago. Makes me wonder and worry a bit...


----------



## 1st Time

Wondering if the kennel/breeder in question is 'Skylon Kennel' located outside Cambridge, Ontario -- sounds awful lot like her (re: Judy Taylor puppy mill), we had same experience unfortunately - "caveat emptor" - buyer beware.


----------



## 1st Time

yeah SKYLON (aka Puppy Mill) is disreputable, unfortunately the CKC is not registration organization that can enforce a code of conduct. Simply a registration database. 1 option - contact SPCA and have them investigate, 
if deemed to be neglect they confiscate the animals. 
Best thing if this breeder is prevented from $$ selling $$ to unsuspecting others.


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## mom4life

Yes, 1st Time, it is Skylon. Good suggestion on the SPCA. May have to do that...


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo

Be very careful. Someone I've known for a number of years just lost her case in court when she posted comments about a Canadian Breeder. She lost her court case and now has huge expenses and an appeal in process.


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## mom4life

Legal counsel was consulted when this horrible ordeal started. Posting on blogs and the web were our only recourses, per the legal counsel. But thank you for the advice.


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## NuttinButGoldens

IMHO, the only difference there should be between a "Pet" quality dog and a "Show" quality dog is the intentions of the owner. A Pet is a Pet. A Show dog is a Show Dog (AND a pet). You breed to the best, healthiest standard you can. You don't breed 'pet' quality dogs IMHO. At least not on purpose. They are simply sold as such and probably under limited AKC registration.

Now, that said, there are always some pups that, for whatever reason, cannot show. Might be something as simple as a missing tooth. It happens.





mom4life said:


> Here I am again posting a reply. Regarding the issue of recurrence of the illnesses, yes, it can and has happened. Our dog receives a pinch of Tylan powder twice a day just sprinkled on top of his bowl. It has been trial and error. So far, he went without powder for 2 days and the diarrhea, loose stools and other illness symptoms returned. So we've resorted to the fact that he will have to have the Tylan powder for an undefined amount of time. We were giving him one scoop of yogurt at each feeding, too. Fortunately we've stopped that without any consequences. Tylan powder seems to be the key right now.
> 
> Regarding vet records and checks, yes. She supplied us with vet records and information. Unfortunately we did not receive that information until we had the pup in our possession. She shipped the paperwork with him. Some of it seemed suspicious to us and to our vet. For instance, the weight of the pup before shipping was stated to be 10-something pounds. WAY OFF! When questioned about the weight on the paperwork, she stated she filled that out and it was only a "guestimate". I asked her if she owned a scale and she said, "Don't patronize me." Huh. A little defensive. I had thought about contacting her vet office myself but it was at about that point that we decided to let it go and concentrate on our baby. I have contacted the Golden Retriever Club of Canada, only to be told she is a member "in good standing" and has been for many years, that she has paid all her dues, and that they could not do anything more about our situation because it was a civil matter.
> 
> I'm inclined to think this may have been done on purpose because we purchased a "pet quality" versus a "show quality". Like I said prior, both mom and dad were champions and perhaps there really wasn't a "pet quality" within the litter, so this may have been done in hopes she would receive the pup back (which I might add was the only option she gave us when she contacted us about being shorted $300) and would have to ship another "pet quality" pup to us that was actually "pet quality". Now...I don't know anything at all about conformation or the show ring. I couldn't tell you anything at all about our dog's angles, movement, bone, etc. Perhaps he is only "pet quality" but we love him nonetheless, and he is every bit as beautiful to us as any other "show golden" (just a proud momma talking here!).
> 
> The bottom line about the breeder is she just has way too many dogs and not enough resources (time, money, help, etc.). Sometimes I guess you just have to "live and learn".
> 
> So, here are some links to photos of our dog. I don't have anything really recent yet. The first one is in the middle of February. The second and third were both taken in the middle/end of April.
> 
> http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x288/mom4life02/2-13-07a.jpg
> http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x288/mom4life02/April2007.jpg
> http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x288/mom4life02/Blizzard4-07.jpg
> 
> Sorry for the novel, everyone. Enjoy!
> 
> mom4life


----------



## mom4life

The Internet is an 'open highway' legally.


----------



## mom4life

You're right, NuttinButGoldens. A pet is a pet, and that is why we pursued the pet quality. We had no intentions of showing and still don't.


----------



## GoldenJoyx'stwo

mom4life said:


> Legal counsel was consulted when this horrible ordeal started. Posting on blogs and the web were our only recourses, per the legal counsel. But thank you for the advice.


Laurie wasn't so lucky. I'm glad you will not face what she did. I have Laurie's email message and the court decision in work. I will send it to you. I hope you didn't think I was trying to be offensive.

I don't want anyone here thinking I'm being an alarmist. Laurie posted this on another forum so I believe it is okay to post here. If it needs to be removed, please do so.

*Judges Ruling is In!* 
MONTREAL — An Ontario woman has been fined $14,000 after being found guilty of libelling a commercial dog breeder online.


Ontario Superior Court Judge Michael Galligan heard last week that Lorie Gordon of Brockville, Ont., made the comments about the poor health of her black Labrador retrievers on an Internet pet forum.


The judge ordered Gordon to pay $10,000 in damages and $4,000 in court costs to ***********, the owners of the **** Que.-based *********** edited out. 

Galligan ruled the comments Gordon posted online between July 2004 and April 2005 at www.pets.ca and another popular pet websites were defamatory.


But Gordon said on Monday she will appeal the decision with the help of donations from animal-rights advocates.


"I wrote they had sick dogs, which is true," she said.


Luc Barrick, the Ottawa lawyer representing the *******, said Gordon and several other witnesses, including representatives from Montreal's SPCA, attempted to portray *****as a puppy mill.


"They are trying to say a commercial breeder is a puppy mill and they are not," Barrick said. "There are puppy mills out there but my client is not one of them."


Alanna Devine, director of animal welfare at the Montreal SPCA, said she was disappointed that the judge ruled against Gordon.


Hundreds of puppy mills exist across Quebec and limited legislation makes it difficult for inspectors to shut down the operations, she said.


Marko Kulik, one of the owners of the Montreal-based website www.pets.ca where Gordon posted the online comments, said he was shocked by the decision.


"I feel bad for her," said Kulik. "I don't know if she was right or wrong but all she wanted to do was to prevent others from having the same experience."


Gordon's posts about the two dogs she got from *****— a black Labrador retriever that had to be put down because of severe hip dysplasia and a replacement dog that was diagnosed with epilepsy — generated hundreds of comments on www.pets.ca before they were removed, he said.


Last week's decision was one of the first to rule on Internet defamation.


In Quebec, a superior court judge ruled earlier this month that officials in the Montreal-area town of Rawdon were right to shut down a website to stop anonymous users from posting derogatory online comments about the mayor and police chief.


In the Ontario case, Galligan wrote Gordon's online comments were more damaging because "the Internet is instantaneous, seamless, interactive, blunt, borderless and far-reaching."


The "impersonal, and the anonymous nature of such communications may itself create a greater risk that the defamatory remarks are believed," Galligan said.

© Copyright (c) Canwest News Service

http://www.canada.com/life/owner+fined+online+breeder+bashing/1834115/story.html


----------



## NuttinButGoldens

I probably wasn't totally clear, which isn't surprising 

What I'm saying is a buyer should not, under normal circumstances, expect a dog that is any lower quality than any other dog. Any dog you buy should be _capable _of showing, even if you choose not to.

I just don't like to see breeders breed with any sort of distinction in mind. I think they should always breed to the highest standard. What actually happens is up to nature 

I wasn't actually refurring (hehe) to your furbaby in any of this. It was just a general comment 





mom4life said:


> You're right, NuttinButGoldens. A pet is a pet, and that is why we pursued the pet quality. We had no intentions of showing and still don't.


----------



## mom4life

I understand, NuttinButGoldens. Thanks for the clarification!


----------



## Chaucer and Mom

*Judges Ruling is In!* 
MONTREAL — An Ontario woman has been fined $14,000 after being found guilty of libelling a commercial dog breeder online.


Ontario Superior Court Judge Michael Galligan heard last week that Lorie Gordon of Brockville, Ont., made the comments about the poor health of her black Labrador retrievers on an Internet pet forum.


The judge ordered Gordon to pay $10,000 in damages and $4,000 in court costs to ***********, the owners of the **** Que.-based *********** edited out. 

Galligan ruled the comments Gordon posted online between July 2004 and April 2005 at www.pets.ca and another popular pet websites were defamatory.


But Gordon said on Monday she will appeal the decision with the help of donations from animal-rights advocates.


"I wrote they had sick dogs, which is true," she said.

_I haven't posted here in a long, long time. Just came back because of this thread. I'm shocked at the ruling. There are websites where you can comment on and rate doctors. Not sure why a remark that is true can be considered defamatory. _

_As I wrote before, Chaucer came from a disgraceful breeder. She only breeds two or three litters a year. But that's about all the good things I can say about her._

_BTW... I never received papers for Chaucer. So... $1300 for a golden hearted dog without papers. I did call the breeder who recommended my breeder and she apologized profusely. Another person who got a dog from Chaucer's litter had almost the same issues._

_Chaucer's brother is a rescue Golden without papers but golden hearted too. I'm so glad that I'm into Golden rescue now. _


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo

The ruling was a shock to everyone. I think the laws in Canada differ than the US. My heart goes out to Laurie and my posting the ruling is just to make people aware of what they can get themselves into.

I paid 6k for all of Shadow's problems, but I purchased him from a very poor breeder. When she stopped breeding Goldens I was very pleased. I actually took her name off of K9data. Her no longer breeding was a huge relief.

Do what you need to. I totally understand. I just knew of Laurie's story and didn't want to see anyone else go through what she went through. This continues as she goes forward with an appeal.

Is this Chaucer from my state? If so, it's good to hear from you!


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## sabby

That was a heavy ruling by the judge.
This precedent will have far reaching implications well beyond here.
An appeal in this case will be a uphill battle to say the least.

I can see it now... Some large dog food corp reads a post.." I took fido off of brand X because it made him sick and all his fur fell off" 

You state a fact that is not welcome....poof you need a laywer....


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo

sabby said:


> That was a heavy ruling by the judge.
> This precedent will have far reaching implications well beyond here.
> An appeal in this case will be a uphill battle to say the least.
> 
> I can see it now... Some large dog food corp reads a post.." I took fido off of brand X because it made him sick and all his fur fell off"
> 
> You state a fact that is not welcome....poof you need a laywer....


Do a Google search on Canadian Internet Law. I think it differs greatly from the laws in the US.


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## Emma&Tilly

Kimm said:


> Do a Google search on Canadian Internet Law. I think it differs greatly from the laws in the US.


I'm guessing that is Laurie with Blaze...yep...I was so shocked by that too...that disgusting establishment won, she fought so hard for her right to warn others about her terrible experience with them, I feel so bad for her.


----------



## MillysMom

I just wanted to say this thread is what stopped me from purchasing a dog from Skylon - I didn't realize it was on the GRF at the time, but I did a google search, and it lead me to this. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. 

I have since learned so much about goldens, and am taking my time in choosing a breeder. With the help of some very kind golden folks I am well on my way to finding my puppy. I learned of Skylon from a woman with incredible show horses who had an excellent experience there... too bad her experience seems like the exception and not the rule.


----------



## Golden Newbie

We just got a puppy from Chrys-Haefen. She had been recommended to me and we put a deposit without knowing any better. As soon as we did, email responses lagged and never answered all my questions. We lived several hours away and have kids who wanted updates and photos, but we got none, so instead decided to drive all the way for a visit in person. Jennifer, the breeder was actually away at a show, while she had 2 litters at home. A volunteer was there to show us in but couldn't answer questions and was frankly quite rude. It left a bad taste in my mouth. Not to mention that the newborn puppies were kept in a Filthy basement that had just flooded... And none of them were marked to know who is who. I'd understand that with 1 smallish litter... As the date to bring our puppy home came closer, I started asking around to other Golden breeders and most said "No comment", but added, "run the other way!". We didn't in the end of it... What we have is a very gorgeous, lovely temperaented boy - too young yet to say how he'll turn out, but I am extremely happy with our puppy! I am not, on the other hand, going to ever recommend this kennel to anyone else!!!! Oh, and she doesn't only breed Goldens! Why would someone feel the need to produce so many dogs??!!


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## kaluhaflynn

A good breeder will only breed one type of dog, and maybe add another breed after they are very experienced with the originaly breed. It seems like thats what they have done. Showing both breeds though!


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## Dogs Matter To Me

This case is far from over, the appeal is being heard in Ottawa Jan 6 2011 and it is expected to be won. This ruling was very wrong and it can be proved in court, please spread the word about this appeal date, public is welcome to attend. 

Read some of the testimony and you be the judge!
One Bark at a Time: Dog court - including Reasons for Decision


----------



## Dogs Matter To Me

Hey Emma and Tilly, I can't send PM to you but you can to me.. thanks for all the support..


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## C's Mom

Dogs Matter To Me said:


> This case is far from over, the appeal is being heard in Ottawa Jan 6 2011 and it is expected to be won. This ruling was very wrong and it can be proved in court, please spread the word about this appeal date, public is welcome to attend.
> 
> Read some of the testimony and you be the judge!
> One Bark at a Time: Dog court - including Reasons for Decision



I hope Lorie wins. I can't believe the judge's decision the first time round. :no::no:

What a surprise to find this link to Fred's blog. It is because of Fred's blog that I started volunteering at our city shelter and this is where I was able to adopt Cocasse.

Lorie, my best wishes to you and yours. I can just imagine the stress this court case has caused you.


----------



## Chelseanr

This thread makes me sad :[ Rowan has a lot of this kennel in his pedigree :[


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## Jamm

Could you post Rowans pedigree ?


----------



## Chelseanr

I dont have his or either of his parents in k9, 
From his sire : 
Grandpa : Pedigree: Martins Sir Sullivan
(Grandma is Linpine Sophia Elise, can't find her anywhere ns899889)
Great-Grandma : Pedigree: RUETZVIEW SANDY
Great-grandpa :http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=239140 - most skylon in this branch


Dame : Would probably be easier to email to you since most of them aren't in K9, no skylon and her line seems better than his sires. 

I know his pedigree is ugly but I love him just the same <3


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## Jamm

Well he is still a cutie! I wouldnt be to worried as i only see Skylon in his Great Grandpa's pedigree!


----------



## Huntersmom

Golden Newbie said:


> We just got a puppy from Chrys-Haefen. She had been recommended to me and we put a deposit without knowing any better. As soon as we did, email responses lagged and never answered all my questions. We lived several hours away and have kids who wanted updates and photos, but we got none, so instead decided to drive all the way for a visit in person. Jennifer, the breeder was actually away at a show, while she had 2 litters at home. A volunteer was there to show us in but couldn't answer questions and was frankly quite rude. It left a bad taste in my mouth. Not to mention that the newborn puppies were kept in a Filthy basement that had just flooded... And none of them were marked to know who is who. I'd understand that with 1 smallish litter... As the date to bring our puppy home came closer, I started asking around to other Golden breeders and most said "No comment", but added, "run the other way!". We didn't in the end of it... What we have is a very gorgeous, lovely temperaented boy - too young yet to say how he'll turn out, but I am extremely happy with our puppy! I am not, on the other hand, going to ever recommend this kennel to anyone else!!!! Oh, and she doesn't only breed Goldens! Why would someone feel the need to produce so many dogs??!!


I am so sorry for your experience - here is ours. Just a shame that Canadian Kennel Club does not regulate these situations better but as long as they have their licenses paid for and are 'members in good standing', that's all that matters;:crossfing

*Buyer Beware!* 
I wish wholeheartedly that my story was different from those of you that are having bad experiences with a breeder from our area, but sadly it is not. 

We purchased an English Golden 10 years ago after having done our homework and feeling quite comfortable and confident that they were the right choice. We have had wonderful moments and years with him and have no regrets whatsoever - he is a member of our family and life just will not be the same some day when he is gone.

A couple of weeks ago now, we visited our veterinarian's office to be told that our aging boy is experiencing signs of hip dysplasia. He also expressed the fact that a puppy would not only be a wonderful addition, but would also revitalize and re-energize our older golden. We bit on what they were saying and contacted the breeder of our first dog, asking for their opinion. Of course they concurred with the vet and thought it would be a wonderful idea so we headed out to see what she had left of her litter(s), since she mentioned that she had a pup in mind for us. When we arrived, emotions ran over and when she showed us the two pups that had not yet been sold, I quickly picked out the one that appeared to be more docile and calm. He was also considerably bigger than the second pup (15 lbs at 8 wks) so we bought him ($1430 worth). 

Here is where the happy story ends - while travelling home, the pup threw up, twice. I put it down to car sickness, but when we got home, he barely made it to the grass when he had a diarrhea bowel movement. He ate well and drank lots of water immediately following, so I wasn't initially concerned however the next day, the diarrhea ran rampid and he quickly declined. Monday we called our vet's office who advised that he should be brought in right away, which we did. By this time, he was limp and lethargic and barely able to open his eyes. Moments later, after a test was performed, it was confirmed that he had contracted parvo and that it was not possible he did so in the day and a half we had him in our possession. We were advised to contact the breeder and advise accordingly, which we did as soon as I arrived home that night. She adamantly denied that it was possible, basically questioning the integrity of both my vet and the test and said she would have to look into it and call me back. Our puppy in the meantime was left at the veterinary hospital to be cared for on intravenous and close watching. To abbreviate this part of the story, he was also diagnosed with coccidia, after further tests were completed and given amoxicillin and S-125 to treat both conditions. Once he was able to chew through his IV line, they released him to us at a cost of $1200. Keep track of the expenses here, it gets better.:uhoh:

Two days after he returned home, he fell ill, again, worse than the first time, vomit, diarrhea, all over my bed and our house and I spent a whole night following him, cleaning up, doing laundry and running him outside every chance I could catch him, to sadly watch projectile expelling from both ends - I was broken. The next day, off to the vets for re-admission. He was barely coherent at this point and not able to hold his head up. A puppy does not deserve to go through this. That night I was asked to pick him up and take him to the emergency hospital for overnight assessing and observation ($370), only to pick him back up and return him to our vet's office the next morning. The emergency clinic is a city away so with the cost of gas, we could probably tack on another $50 in gas going back and forth and back and forth again. After yet another day at the hospital, I then picked him up and brought him home for the night with his IV taped to his leg and a cone on his little head.

:doh: The breeder - denies any responsibility for the pup's health condition or any expenses ($1570 to this point, not including what it will cost when I pick him up tonight for this stay and second round of medication and three days off work for me dealing with running the pup from clinic to hospital and back again, along with caring for the poor babe). Throughout this ordeal she has told us that if we take the pup to her vet's office, she will pay the expenses. When my vet called hers, they had no idea who our pup was or what the condition was and did not understand what we were looking for. They were very clear that they would not accept the pup without assurance of payment (understandable) and would not get between us and the breeder fighting over who would pay. This confused me - she said she would pay. So, my vet called the breeder and put me on the phone to outright ask two things - if I take this pup to your vet, will you pay the bill? She said 'yes'. I then asked 'will the pup still be mine?' Again, she said 'of course'. When my vet got on the phone to confirm what she had said she firmly stated 'if the pup is taken to my vet I will pay the bill but the pup is mine. If they are not willing to relinquish ownership to me so I can take him home and care for him myself, all bets are off' and she hung down the phone on my vet. Wow! This is how you stand behind the puppies you sell to people all over the world? This is how you treat a repeat customer? And most of all, this is how you respond to a pup that is in critical condition and desperate need of medical attention? Disgusting.

Bottom line - no help or interest in taking ownership over our very sick baby, no standing behind the dogs that are bred from her business and no ethical undertaking whatsoever here. Had I known two weeks ago, what I know today, I would NEVER have bought another dog from this puppy mill and I will NEVER refer this breeder to anyone. In fact, if anyone wishes to contact us, I will be more than happy to share who I am referring to such that you too can exercise BUYER BEWARE! :no:


----------



## Huntersmom

*Buyer Beware!*



jonesy said:


> My Audi is healthy and happy thankfully. I got him from Skylon's owner's twin sister Jennifer McAuley of Chrys-Haefen kennels in Scotland, Ontario. I do have concerns now that the businesses may be run the same way. I must say that e-mail replies to my questions dropped off considerably after we brought Audi home. Does anyone have any further info or experiences with Chrys-Haefen? Thanks!


Hopefully your Audi is a healthy 3 year old by now. I am hoping we will be able to say the same, based on what we are currently experiencing with our baby.

*Buyer Beware!* 
I wish wholeheartedly that my story was different from those of you that are having bad experiences with a breeder from our area, but sadly it is not. 

We purchased an English Golden 10 years ago after having done our homework and feeling quite comfortable and confident that they were the right choice. We have had wonderful moments and years with him and have no regrets whatsoever - he is a member of our family and life just will not be the same some day when he is gone.

A couple of weeks ago now, we visited our veterinarian's office to be told that our aging boy is experiencing signs of hip dysplasia. He also expressed the fact that a puppy would not only be a wonderful addition, but would also revitalize and re-energize our older golden. We bit on what they were saying and contacted the breeder of our first dog, asking for their opinion. Of course they concurred with the vet and thought it would be a wonderful idea so we headed out to see what she had left of her litter(s), since she mentioned that she had a pup in mind for us. When we arrived, emotions ran over and when she showed us the two pups that had not yet been sold, I quickly picked out the one that appeared to be more docile and calm. He was also considerably bigger than the second pup (15 lbs at 8 wks) so we bought him ($1430 worth). 

Here is where the happy story ends - while travelling home, the pup threw up, twice. I put it down to car sickness, but when we got home, he barely made it to the grass when he had a diarrhea bowel movement. He ate well and drank lots of water immediately following, so I wasn't initially concerned however the next day, the diarrhea ran rampid and he quickly declined. Monday we called our vet's office who advised that he should be brought in right away, which we did. By this time, he was limp and lethargic and barely able to open his eyes. Moments later, after a test was performed, it was confirmed that he had contracted parvo and that it was not possible he did so in the day and a half we had him in our possession. We were advised to contact the breeder and advise accordingly, which we did as soon as I arrived home that night. She adamantly denied that it was possible, basically questioning the integrity of both my vet and the test and said she would have to look into it and call me back. Our puppy in the meantime was left at the veterinary hospital to be cared for on intravenous and close watching. To abbreviate this part of the story, he was also diagnosed with coccidia, after further tests were completed and given amoxicillin and S-125 to treat both conditions. Once he was able to chew through his IV line, they released him to us at a cost of $1200. Keep track of the expenses here, it gets better.:uhoh:

Two days after he returned home, he fell ill, again, worse than the first time, vomit, diarrhea, all over my bed and our house and I spent a whole night following him, cleaning up, doing laundry and running him outside every chance I could catch him, to sadly watch projectile expelling from both ends - I was broken. The next day, off to the vets for re-admission. He was barely coherent at this point and not able to hold his head up. A puppy does not deserve to go through this. That night I was asked to pick him up and take him to the emergency hospital for overnight assessing and observation ($370), only to pick him back up and return him to our vet's office the next morning. The emergency clinic is a city away so with the cost of gas, we could probably tack on another $50 in gas going back and forth and back and forth again. After yet another day at the hospital, I then picked him up and brought him home for the night with his IV taped to his leg and a cone on his little head.

:doh: The breeder - denies any responsibility for the pup's health condition or any expenses ($1570 to this point, not including what it will cost when I pick him up tonight for this stay and second round of medication and three days off work for me dealing with running the pup from clinic to hospital and back again, along with caring for the poor babe). Throughout this ordeal she has told us that if we take the pup to her vet's office, she will pay the expenses. When my vet called hers, they had no idea who our pup was or what the condition was and did not understand what we were looking for. They were very clear that they would not accept the pup without assurance of payment (understandable) and would not get between us and the breeder fighting over who would pay. This confused me - she said she would pay. So, my vet called the breeder and put me on the phone to outright ask two things - if I take this pup to your vet, will you pay the bill? She said 'yes'. I then asked 'will the pup still be mine?' Again, she said 'of course'. When my vet got on the phone to confirm what she had said she firmly stated 'if the pup is taken to my vet I will pay the bill but the pup is mine. If they are not willing to relinquish ownership to me so I can take him home and care for him myself, all bets are off' and she hung down the phone on my vet. Wow! This is how you stand behind the puppies you sell to people all over the world? This is how you treat a repeat customer? And most of all, this is how you respond to a pup that is in critical condition and desperate need of medical attention? Disgusting.

Bottom line - no help or interest in taking ownership over our very sick baby, no standing behind the dogs that are bred from her business and no ethical undertaking whatsoever here. Had I known two weeks ago, what I know today, I would NEVER have bought another dog from this puppy mill and I will NEVER refer this breeder to anyone. In fact, if anyone wishes to contact us, I will be more than happy to share who I am referring to such that you too can exercise BUYER BEWARE! :no:


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## Huntersmom

mom4life said:


> We have had a poor breeder experience and I wanted to find a way to vent my frustrations as well as warn others. We put a deposit down on a pup. Pup ended up being extremely sick upon our receipt. He had campylobacter and clostridum bacterial infections. We bought an english cream golden retriever and had him shipped to our nearest international airport. That was our first mistake...not visiting the kennel in person. We had our reasons for not visiting (mostly due to time [14+ hour drive] and time of the year [winter]), plus we had checked references by email and by phone. Breeder has been breeding for 40 years and is even a judge. We thought everything was in check. Mom and Dad both had clearances and were champions. Our pup was only 5.5 pounds in weight upon our receipt. Pup was 9 weeks old at that time. We visited our vet several times that first week we had the pup, spending around $300.00 for tests and eventually, medicines. We sent our remaining balance owed minus the $300.00 and the breeder had a fit! Threatened to take us to small claims court, etc, because it says in her contract that she cannot be held responsible for vet bills/costs. Our comeback was that her contract also stated as #1. This breeder guarantees this pup to be in good health. Well...we thought that pretty much voided the contract, since the pup was not in good health. Anyway, after many back and forths and not so pleasant phone conversations, we sent her the rest of the money because we didn't want to deal with her anymore. We just wanted our new baby to be happy and healthy. So we concentrated our efforts on our new family member, who i am proud to say today is almost 8 months old and weighs 58 pounds! If anyone wants to know the name of the Canadian breeder, please ask and I will supply. Our only recourse in this (besides having a happy, healthy, beautiful, intelligent, etc new family member) was to be able to let others know about her poor breeding practices, at least with our instance. I hope this never happens to anyone else.


I am so sorry you went through this mom4life - who was the breeder you dealt with? I am curious to know if it is the same one we have been struggling with.


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## Pamela Richardson

*Need advice about Chrys-haefen Kennels URGENT*

wish to have some advice about this breeder please


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## wiseguy

*Breeder Info*

Hello everyone, I'm a new member looking for some info on some problems with our pup from Chrys-hafen and I would love for someone to contact me and give me some advise about what to do because we are at wits end.
THANKS


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## Sophie_Mom

The breeder we got Sophie and Sawyer from had a dog from Chrys-hafen. His name was Fintan. But that's about all I know. His user name is Doolin on here. Good luck!


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## wiseguy

HI I cant seem to get anywhere in replying to a private message on here i guess I am to computer stupid. Please email me at [email protected] or tell me how to do it.
Thanks 
wiseguy


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## mylissyk

wiseguy said:


> HI I cant seem to get anywhere in replying to a private message on here i guess I am to computer stupid. Please email me at [email protected] or tell me how to do it.
> Thanks
> wiseguy


You have to have 15 posts before you can send a PM. Can you post what issue you need help with?


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## wiseguy

I will start first with saying that we purchased our second dog in Jan after our 12 yr old golden passed away but unfortuneatly that breeder is gone. In Jan we picked up a 5 month old female that is very loveable but after the first few days and seeing her full of worms we took her to our vet and he discovered a grade 4 heart murmer. We contacted the breeder and made a deal to keep the pup be we received half our money back for this problem which was fine but since then we have had to medicate her for a skin allergy with a daily dose of prednisone and have had constant battles with types of food that she can keep down. The dog has been to the vet 6 times since Jan for different problems but is a smart lovable pet. Currently she is in heat at 10 months old when the breeder told us that her dogs are good for at least a year before this starts and that she wont allow her to be fixed until she is 10 months old, this is very frustrating. The breeder now has removed any health guarantees because we said that we have fed her puppy food and she doesnt believe in doing this so we are on our own, this is fine any ways because we would not want another of her dogs. We are so frustrated with our pup purchase that I want to report our breeeder to someone but do not know who to talk to or what to do.
Any suggestions would be great!
Thanks


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## Sally's Mom

Sorry to hear about your pup. A grade IV heart murmur is fairly significant, have you had an echocardiogram done? I'm sure you know that the concern is subaortic stenosis. Also, allergies, while not unheard of in young dogs, are unusual. If you live in the States, you can also notify the Better Business Bureau.


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## wiseguy

Hi everyone I do not have the 15 posts to do anything here but I would love to talk to you especially Huntersmom about breeder similarities if you could please email me at home that would be great [email protected] 
Thanks 
Darren


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## SterlingValleyGoldens

wow, sorry you had such a horrible time with your breeder!


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## flutterbye

That stinks. Sorry you're dealing with one of those people.


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## tlicskai

*Chrys-haefan mature dog*

I am new on here ~ I have had two goldens in my lifetime ~ the second one (Dover) was a mature female I purchased after my divorce. She was lovely (7yrs) and kept me great company. I ultimately only had her for 5 years and she passed nearly 2 years ago. She was from Chrys-haefan and even my vet admitted she was very neglected when I got her.
She had hardly any teeth left from chewing the wire cages of her outdoor pen 
She had never been inside except when she birthed her 3 litters for them. 

I am ready to start again with a pup this time but am terrified of buying from a puppy mill. Needless to say I won't be using Chrys-haefen this time!

Any recommendations in Southern Ontario for a good reputable breeder?

Thanks!


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## GoldensGirl

tlicskai said:


> I am new on here ~ I have had two goldens in my lifetime ~ the second one (Dover) was a mature female I purchased after my divorce. She was lovely (7yrs) and kept me great company. I ultimately only had her for 5 years and she passed nearly 2 years ago. She was from Chrys-haefan and even my vet admitted she was very neglected when I got her.
> She had hardly any teeth left from chewing the wire cages of her outdoor pen
> She had never been inside except when she birthed her 3 litters for them.
> 
> I am ready to start again with a pup this time but am terrified of buying from a puppy mill. Needless to say I won't be using Chrys-haefen this time!
> 
> Any recommendations in Southern Ontario for a good reputable breeder?
> 
> Thanks!


Welcome to the Forum!

I suggest that you start a new thread of your own with a title something like "Breeders in Southern Ontario?" so that people know what you're asking. You request is less likely to draw the answers you want while it's buried in another thread.

It helps if you tell our members what you are looking for in a puppy. Do you want a dog to hunt with? One to show in conformation? Agility? Or are you looking for a family pet? If the latter, do you want an active dog or a laid-back couch potato type? How much space to you have for a dog to run and play in? Do you have other animals or children? These are questions a good breeder will ask and the answers will help our members guide you to a breeder more likely to be a good match, since breeders aim for different things in their lines.

Good luck!


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## Prism Goldens

Maybe someone else asked and I missed your answer, but if you don't name the breeder ("kennelname) then it doesn't do much to warn others.
I think that weight is so scary that I feel you dodged a bullet to still have him and have him healthy at 8 months!
Never mind.. didn't notice that the post was years old!


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## mylissyk

tlicskai said:


> I am new on here ~ I have had two goldens in my lifetime ~ the second one (Dover) was a mature female I purchased after my divorce. She was lovely (7yrs) and kept me great company. I ultimately only had her for 5 years and she passed nearly 2 years ago. She was from Chrys-haefan and even my vet admitted she was very neglected when I got her.
> She had hardly any teeth left from chewing the wire cages of her outdoor pen
> She had never been inside except when she birthed her 3 litters for them.
> 
> I am ready to start again with a pup this time but am terrified of buying from a puppy mill. Needless to say I won't be using Chrys-haefen this time!
> 
> Any recommendations in Southern Ontario for a good reputable breeder?
> 
> Thanks!


Please start your own thread so we can see it easier, and welcome to the board.


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## amosgreen

I got a cavalier king charles spaniel from Jennifer. She is all about the $$$ and yes I agree, communication is not her strong suit. Very frustrating!


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## mom4life

Huntersmom: Today I received an email message that stated someone had recently posted on my original, very old thread. That is when I decided to re-read the thread in its entirety and discovered your unanswered question. Maybe you already uncovered the breeder name by reading the posts prior (because it was mentioned by me earlier), or maybe you have not. I still felt I needed to give you an answer. The breeder was Skylon. I do hope that is not the breeder you used for your little pup years ago, and I do hope your pup's health took a turn for the better. Please fill me in on your pup when you can. I'd love to hear what has transpired in the years since you posted the question.


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