# They got into a fight



## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

Were any toys or other high value things involved? I'm sure (hope) it was nothing too serious.. mine have gotten a bit too rough for my liking to the point where I'm not even sure it's just playing anymore, and all I do is tell them "enough!" and make them leave eachother alone for a while.


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## Bock (Jun 23, 2008)

It being just one fight I wouldn't think too much of it, however I would watch them just to see. There may have been a little question of dominance and that fight may have settled it!


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## Jazz & Jules (Feb 25, 2007)

And you did excellent by bringing them back together quickly! Good Job!

Too often people will keep them seperated out of fear becasue it IS scary when something like this happens.

Job well done on handling this!


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## cinnamonteal (May 16, 2008)

How old is Brutus? Some neutered dogs take a severe disliking to intact dogs.


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## Pudden (Dec 28, 2008)

are they young still and have grown up together? If so, maybe some dominance questions are emerging between them, especially if Max is a status-oriented dog and Brutus is still intact. I wouldn't be too freaked out - we humans tend to over-react to dog fights; most of them sound worse than they are.
But I'd keep an eye on them to make sure they don't make a habit of it...


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I think Oakley's Dad will have good advice. It probably will settle itself out in the wash of time, but I don't have any experience with this.If no one had marks on them, it seems more like negotiation than an actual fight(?).


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Yes, I had it happen when my 2 older ones switched dominance positions in the household. I suspect that's what's about to happen in your house, too.
A couple comments, if you need to break it up, grab the one on top by both back legs and get the back legs as high up off the ground as you possibly can. They have to let go of the other dog, and you won't get bitten in the process.
If there was no damage, they weren't nearly as serious as you thought they were. In an all out brawl, one or the other will require a LOT of stitches in a very short amount of time. And you won't be able to break it up very easily. 
IF you hear things escalating, or if something happens like this again, just as soon as you break them up put them both on a long, serious DOWN-STAY. Enforce it. It reminds them that, no matter who they think is top dog, YOU are, not either one of them. When my two would get snarly with each other, I'd grab each by the collar and say in a real threatening tone of voice, "you wanna fight? you want to? go ahead, MAKE MY DAY" and then they'd both back off. They needed to remember that, no matter what, I'm still the one in charge around here.
Start watching them for signs as to who will be the dominant dog. It's very hard for us humans to see our older dog being "replaced" in the pack structure by a youngster, but that's how the dog world operates sometimes. When you let them outside, who goes out the door first? That's your dominant dog. Be sure to treat the dominant dog like the dominant dog, or you end up causing the problems rather than solving them. That means that dog gets fed (a microsecond) first, gets petted first, etc. It helps them work it out if you reinforce their own solution, whereas if you treat the non-dominant dog as the dominant one, it confused the issue and perpetuates the problem.
It's nothing surprising with 2 dogs to see some fussing while they are sorting things out. I'm sure they'll be just fine.






MaxwellSmart said:


> Yesterday Max and Brutus got into an all out brawl. I was out messing with the garden and the boys were in the yard wrestling (like usual) then they started to get a little rougher. So I started heading towards them to break it up but not soon enough. Brutus was laying on the grounded on his side and Max had him around the neck. Bru was yelping like I've never heard him before and Max was sounding pretty nasty. I broke them up really quick and Brutus went to the back door w/ his tail between his legs still whimpering a little. Neither one was hurt other than Max’s front gums were bleeding a little. After they both cooled down, I brought them back together; they sniffed each other, Brutus sniffed the ground where they fought then they both laid down.
> I don't know what happened but I do know it has never gotten this far before. Before when Max has had enough he just growled and Brutus immediately would leave him alone. I don't know if maybe Max gave him signs and Brutus just ignored him. I have no idea. It was scary.
> 
> Max is neutered but is a fairly dominant dog (when I used to take him to the dog park he almost always gets into a scuff w/ another dog) and Brutus isn't neutered yet. Could it be that the "play" intensified and turned into a challenge for Max?
> ...


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## MaxwellSmart (Aug 11, 2008)

Thanks guys! I appreciate your help. They were absolutely fine today, no problems. 
You're right it wasn't an 'all out brawl' just a scuffle. 

Brutus is 8 months, Max is 10 years. Big difference in energy levels. However, Max can still hold his own and can play for a good solid hour before wanting to just take a nap in the shade. As for the dominance thing, honestly, I'm not quite sure. Brutus may be taking over. But he still follows Max everywhere, when max growls Brutus backs off (most of the time). Brutus is very rough and body blocks him now, could that be a sign of the switch of power? As for who goes through the doorway first, that varies. At any given time, it could be any one of them. 

It's so hard to break them up. Brutus just doesnt stop. He'll grab and pull on Max's tail, ears, neck. Should I put Brutus on a leash when I want them to stop and get him to down-stay? Actually, I could do this randomly so Brutus will obey the "Enough" command. What do you think?


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Gunner and Selka have never fought but Gunner and his litter mate went at it like maniacs when they were about 3 months old. We had to seprate them before they killed each other.

About the dominant dog thing:

Gunner pushes his way in front of Selka and goes out the door first but with all other things, he is submissive to Selka. He get's down from laying by me if Selka wants up or Selka will just jump on top of him! Also he always lets Selka have the frisbee, ball etc when we are playing unless I make Selka do a sit/stay or if it is Gunner's dummy, then he will grab it from Selka. Weird huh?


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

I didn't realize Max was a senior and Brutus was so young. I would definitely protect Max.
I'd stop rough play before it can go very far.
When my guys get loud, even if they are having fun, I just say "Knock it off" and they do.


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## MaxwellSmart (Aug 11, 2008)

Debles said:


> I didn't realize Max was a senior and Brutus was so young. I would definitely protect Max.
> I'd stop rough play before it can go very far.
> When my guys get loud, even if they are having fun, I just say "Knock it off" and they do.


the past 2 days I have been right beside them when they play so I can stop it mainly so Brutus, no matter how bad he wants to play, gets it into his head that I'm still in charge. And I'm sure we all know how hard it is to calm a puppy down. :doh:

They've been just fine since then and really haven't played that much. The only thing happening now is Brutus' body blocking. Oh and this started recently... if Max is laying down chewing on a toy, Brutus will sometimes stand over top of him. Is that dominance? He doesn't take the toy away and Max doesn't even acknowledge him (at least to the human eye). 

You know how people like to people watch, well i've started to "dog watch" to study their interactions. It's fascinating. And when it comes to my own dogs, I find it even more so. I just wish the dogs would stop and give a play-by-play commentary so I can understand it :bowl:


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

My take would be that Brutus was starting to feel his oats and thought it was time for him to exert his dominance. And then Max told him not so fast young man. Keep an eye out but I have a feeling it will be a while before Brutus feels that brave again, if ever, especially the way you describe his retreat after you broke it up.


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## MaxwellSmart (Aug 11, 2008)

AmbikaGR said:


> My take would be that Brutus was starting to feel his oats and thought it was time for him to exert his dominance. And then Max told him not so fast young man. Keep an eye out but I have a feeling it will be a while before Brutus feels that brave again, if ever, especially the way you describe his retreat after you broke it up.


Yeah Brutus was shaking and whimpering even after I broke it up. I'm just hoping this doesn't become a usual occurance so I can hold off on getting Bru neutured. 
I stood my ground this afternoon when I wanted break them up (they were just playing but Max started growling more). I went in and said a very stern "ENOUGH" and the down-stay that was suggested. I let Max go first...mainly because Bru wasn't 'staying' quite well. Then I released Bru and they laid down next to eachother chewing on different toys.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

ya gotta love that down-stay. It's a great solution for a multitude of issues!




MaxwellSmart said:


> Yeah Brutus was shaking and whimpering even after I broke it up. I'm just hoping this doesn't become a usual occurance so I can hold off on getting Bru neutured.
> I stood my ground this afternoon when I wanted break them up (they were just playing but Max started growling more). I went in and said a very stern "ENOUGH" and the down-stay that was suggested. I let Max go first...mainly because Bru wasn't 'staying' quite well. Then I released Bru and they laid down next to eachother chewing on different toys.


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## gaw9 (Mar 28, 2009)

I'm in a similar situation and it makes me anxious too. My 5 month old male puppy is starting to exert himself with our 2 year old female, leading to some tense situations. It starts with play, then ends with both dogs way too tense for my comfort. Let me know how things go, or if you find a new strategy that works to diffuse them. Essentially, I just want mine to be best friends---not two dogs having a dominance struggle!


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