# choke collar on At the end of my leash



## Oaklys Dad (Dec 28, 2005)

I don't use that type but I do use a regular all chain collar. Sized, put on properly and used correctly they can work well. They are not a cure all but a tool for training if used correctly.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

I use it and I like it--for me it is a communication/training tool and works really well if used right. Not that I wouldn't use a regular choke collar (I do) but I like that this one stops and has fabric on it.


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## Bleachmiracle (Jun 25, 2009)

The key to these collars is learning how to use them properly. A lot of people simply put them on their dog and let their dog pull and choke themselves. If you want to use one, make sure someone shows you the proper way to use the collar.


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## Maya's Mom (Apr 13, 2009)

I was told in my puppy class that choke collars can really damage a dog's trachea. If you really need something to control pulling, try an Easy Walk Harness. Although I plan to stick with a regular buckle nylon collar, if I ever got to the point where I needed something to control pulling and training wasn't working, I would try the Easy Walk first, then the face harnesses (Gentle Leader, etc.), then a prong, and my LAST resort would be a choke collar. They really can hurt dogs.


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## New Golden Mom (Dec 17, 2008)

We bought one kind of like that but rather than chain the top part is made of the same material as the collar (nylon). We got ours from Pet Valu in town....a local guy hand makes them and it cost $5.99. It's very sturdy and works like a charm.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Those look like martingales. I don't consider them a choke collar and don't use mine as a choke collar. I use them when I am walking my dogs without their harnesses or when we go on therapy dog visits. I use them so that if my dogs get spooked by something, they can't slip out of their collar. I put it on much more loosely than they are showing in the picture.


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## NuttinButGoldens (Jan 10, 2009)

I use the old fashion type. Not seen that one before.

Some people don't like Choke Collars, but as long as you are properly trained on HOW to use them, there's nothing wrong with them.

Gilmours breeder showed and gave me a nylon choke collar last weekend. I think I'll switch to those.

I use them for on-lease only. I also keep his regular collar on. When we get in the car, I switch the lead to the regular collar. I never leave a dog to it's own with a choke collar on.


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## goldensmum (Oct 23, 2007)

In the uk it is called the half check chain collar, and I use them on both Quinn and Reeva. Like the full check chain - still called a choke chain i believe they are safe to use providing you use them correctly. Reeva does not pull on the lead, and Quinn will walk perfectly well if he is on his own, but when i walk the 2 together he does try to walk in front of her, so i attach a gentle leader to the collar and he walks great.

IMO the half check collar is not as harmful as the full check chain can be, but even walking a dog on a normal collar can be harmful to the dogs throat if they pull consistently


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

All collars can do damage to a dog's trachea if used improperly, but a full choke is essentially an invitation to serious damage. Lots of people resort to chokes or prongs, but they truly are not necessary if you are willing to take the time to teach your dog how you want him to behave on a leash.


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## wagondog (Aug 24, 2007)

I am not a proponent of the choke collar of any type, I much prefer a properly sized and correctly used prong collar but, the collar that is pictured in the first post completely eliminates the error that some dog owners are guilty of, not pulling up through the eye so the chain releases when loose. I see so many dogs walked with the eye on the top thereby not allowing the chain to loosen. ( I always tell them too!)
Wagondog


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## asiacat (Jan 30, 2009)

we used that type of collar with maddison when she was younger as a training tool for walking as per the recommendation of the lady from bark busters...it did work when used properly but she grew out of it and got stronger so we use the gentle leader now....but that collar did work for her for awhile....


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## NuttinButGoldens (Jan 10, 2009)

Stationery eye up from under the inboard ear. Makes it easy to remember 



wagondog said:


> I am not a proponent of the choke collar of any type, I much prefer a properly sized and correctly used prong collar but, the collar that is pictured in the first post completely eliminates the error that some dog owners are guilty of, not pulling up through the eye so the chain releases when loose. I see so many dogs walked with the eye on the top thereby not allowing the chain to loosen. ( I always tell them too!)
> Wagondog


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Yeah, these posts remind me that it is better to walk them with that type of collar than a flat because a lot of times they can slip the flat. As far as damage--well, they shouldn't if you use it right and teach them to walk on a loose leash (and not let them pull into with their neck).


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## JoelSilverman (Oct 21, 2008)

tippykayak said:


> All collars can do damage to a dog's trachea if used improperly, but a full choke is essentially an invitation to serious damage. Lots of people resort to chokes or prongs, but they truly are not necessary if you are willing to take the time to teach your dog how you want him to behave on a leash.


You are right. All collars could cause damage if used improperly. It is all about the person on the other end of the leash. Remember that the person that is improperly using a chain collar on a dog or abusing a dog does not need a chain collar. They will find another way. You're eliminating the tool instead of getting to the source of the problem. And that is educating the owner. 

Not all dogs need the use of a chain collar. Chain collars can work well in the right situation with the right dog. As far as them choking dogs, I use them and I don't choke dogs, as well as many other individuals who's posts I have read on this site. I will also tell you that highly respected veterinarians such as Dr. Marty Smith, (from Drs. Foster and Smith), who wrote the forward to my book, are likely to disagree with you.


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## chloe920 (Apr 5, 2009)

I use one of these collars and have for years. I find that I can use the chain part when I want the extra security of Chloe not pulling out of her collar, also helped with proper leash etiquette in the beginning, but I also attach her leash to the stationary ring for regular walking. This collar allows me to do both without having to put two different collars on her. I do however take the collar off when she goes into her crate (unsupervised), just in case.

L.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

JoelSilverman said:


> You are right. All collars could cause damage if used improperly. It is all about the person on the other end of the leash. Remember that the person that is improperly using a chain collar on a dog or abusing a dog does not need a chain collar. They will find another way. You're eliminating the tool instead of getting to the source of the problem. And that is educating the owner.
> 
> Not all dogs need the use of a chain collar. Chain collars can work well in the right situation with the right dog. As far as them choking dogs, I use them and I don't choke dogs, as well as many other individuals who's posts I have read on this site. I will also tell you that highly respected veterinarians such as Dr. Marty Smith, (from Drs. Foster and Smith), who wrote the forward to my book, are likely to disagree with you.


Yes, Joel, I know you wrote a book. You've brought it up twice now when you've disagreed with me.

And highly respected veterinarians such as Dr. Nicholas Dodman and his colleagues at the Tufts vet school, in _their_ book, argue that choke collars pose an unnecessary risk to the trachea.

So which highly respected vet shall we trust? Yours or mine?

Also, it's worth noting that Drs. Foster and Smith, despite their fondness for your book, do not sell any choke or prong collars on their website.


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## JoelSilverman (Oct 21, 2008)

Here is part of a four page interview from Dr Dodman. In this interview, he gives his opinion on prong collars.. etc... but nothing about what it does to the trachea. Here is a quote from Dr Nicholas Dodman from that interview:

"*I work on the theory* that if you can train a killer whale to launch itself out of a swimming pool, roll on its side and urinate into a small plastic cup, given only a whistle and a bucket of fish, without a choke chain, then you don’t need those confrontational techniques with dogs."

After training killer whales to launch me out of the water and urinate in a plastic cup, that is a weird comparison. Training an animal on land and in the water changes. This veterinarian works on theory. I don't work on theory. I work on what is realistic for each individual animal. After reading many of the posts from individuals on this site, as well as speaking to hundreds of dog trainers across the nation, I think they would also agree. 

Here is another quote:

"But as soon as the dog reaches a certain age, they go into a slip collar, then a metal choke collar, and if these aren’t having the desired aversive effects, they escalate up to a prong collar; some even graduate higher, to electricity."

A vet giving behavioral advice? A little generalizing, don't you think? I have always believed that all dogs are different. Some simply need more control than others. But in answer to your question, I trust my vet.... He knows he's a vet, and he's not trying to be an animal trainer.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Here's an excerpt from the Tuft's Veterinary School's puppy book, _Puppy's First Steps_, edited by Dodman:

"Some owners take that as a sign that they must graduate an unruly pup from a flat collar to a choke collar and then to a collar with prongs in order to get their young charge to obey. That's about the worst thing a person can do. Choke and prong collars really _can_ hurt a dog, and they won't teach him anything in the bargain" (124-125).

I realize they don't mention the trachea specifically, but it's fairly clear that it's the most sensitive area of the neck to damage, so where else would the injury occur? 



JoelSilverman said:


> After training killer whales to launch me out of the water and urinate in a plastic cup, that is a weird comparison. Training an animal on land and in the water changes.


I'm not quite sure what you mean by "changes" here, but isn't a big part of your qualifications your time at Sea World and other marine animal parks? Don't you regard that experience as important to your understanding of dog training? I would have thought if you could control a 12,000 pound Orca with a bucket of herring, you wouldn't need to constrict a dog's neck and airway to control him. I think the comparison is fairly apt, except that dogs are domesticated and have evolved some fairly complex ways of interpreting human behavior, so they're _more_ likely to be able to understand us without the use of compulsive force, discomfort, or pain.

In this particular comparison, though, I'll absolutely cede the floor to you. You've trained orcas, and I haven't. What is it about cetaceans that makes them trainable without physical aversives while they're necessary for dogs? Or is there some kind of aversive used in theme park training that I don't know about?



JoelSilverman said:


> A vet giving behavioral advice? A little generalizing, don't you think? I have always believed that all dogs are different. Some simply need more control than others. But in answer to your question, I trust my vet.... He knows he's a vet, and he's not trying to be an animal trainer.


Better a vet than somebody with no qualifications or degree at all, right? And I wasn't citing him for his behavioral advice, but rather as a medical professional who understands how a choke collar can hurt a dog. And a vet wrote the forward to your training book, right? So isn't he lending his credibility to a book on behavior? I'm just guessing; it's possible he's giving purely medical advice, but I haven't read the book.


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## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

Not that I can stand that show or the guy on there (holy ego batman!), I would use a martengale on my guys if they needed something between a buckle and a prong. Not really a fan of harnesses or halties here. The tool depends on the dog and what you're doing and what results you want, and is different in almost every case.

Lana


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## FishinBuddy (Nov 20, 2008)

This is always a debate. Hey, do what works for your dog. I always use a Marty on my dog. If he does try to slip (not likely) he won't. I also use a nylon choke AND a prong. I might actually have all 3 on at the same time. If he is walking fine then fine...if he is being a little crazy I will give a PROPER correction and then go on. As long as you know what you are doing then I think all collars CAN be effective.....improper training and technique is the reason for injury in my opinion.


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## cham (Feb 21, 2008)

JoelSilverman said:


> A vet giving behavioral advice? A little generalizing, don't you think? I have always believed that all dogs are different. Some simply need more control than others. But in answer to your question, I trust my vet.... He knows he's a vet, and he's not trying to be an animal trainer.


Not for nothing, but Dr Nick Dodman DVM, ACVA AND ACVB is not only a highly respected Vet, but he is a board certified animal behaviorist. I think that qualifies him to give behavioral advice don't you?
What certifications do you hold and Dr Smith DVM hold?


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## JoelSilverman (Oct 21, 2008)

cham said:


> Not for nothing, but Dr Nick Dodman DVM, ACVA AND ACVB is not only a highly respected Vet, but he is a board certified animal behaviorist. I think that qualifies him to give behavioral advice don't you?
> What certifications do you hold and Dr Smith DVM hold?


I hold no certifications, have never read one page of any dog training book, nor have I learned from any dog training videos. And in answer to your question, take note that just because someone has a bunch of letters after his or her name or has some certifications does NOT necessarily give he or she the right to offer behavioral advice. Credentials are not a ticket to expertise in the animal training field. 

I have seen many individuals with certifications that were great trainers, but I have also seen many so called professors that could not train their way out of a paper bag. Sorry if I am ruffling a few feathers here, but you cannot generalize when it comes to animal training. 

What does it take to understand dog training? Practical experience, training many different dogs, being opened minded early on in your career and open to new ideas, good natural timing, and a love of animals. Little of this comes from books and theory.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

> take note that just because someone has a bunch of letters after his or her name or has some certifications does NOT necessarily give he or she the right to offer behavioral advice.





cham said:


> Not for nothing, but Dr Nick Dodman DVM, ACVA AND ACVB is not only a highly respected Vet,* but he is a board certified animal behaviorist.* I think that qualifies him to give behavioral advice don't you?
> What certifications do you hold and Dr Smith DVM hold?


I think you might have missed this part. He is a certified animal behaviorist. That would mean he is qualified to give behavioral advice. At least in my book.


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

FishinBuddy said:


> This is always a debate. Hey, do what works for your dog. I always use a Marty on my dog. If he does try to slip (not likely) he won't. I also use a nylon choke AND a prong. I might actually have all 3 on at the same time. If he is walking fine then fine...if he is being a little crazy I will give a PROPER correction and then go on. As long as you know what you are doing then I think all collars CAN be effective.....improper training and technique is the reason for injury in my opinion.


Curiosity may have killed the cat... but this is a dog forum, so I'll ask anyway: What kind of situation could possibly necessitate wearing all 3 of these collars at the same time???

Julie and Jersey


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## Gwen (Aug 9, 2007)

When training, I use a Volhart collar (nylon choke) but change it over to non-choke as soon as our training session/class is over. I use this on my 2 year old, 8 month old & even the 5 month old. 

I make sure that the collar is put on properly and corrections are quick & sharp - no dragging or choking required! I also love that the collar doesn't make marks/indentations on the coat or catch the hair.

Yes, I've seen dogs absolutely choking on a choke collar & still pulling but this seems to be on older dogs/pups who haven't rec'd proper training. 

Last evening, we started formal heeling training in May's puppy class. There was absolutely NO choking but a happy, fun learning experience.


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## kegofron (Jun 18, 2009)

harness worked great for us


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

> JoelSilverman said:
> 
> 
> > This veterinarian works on theory. I don't work on theory. I work on what is realistic for each individual animal.
> ...


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I really like martingale collars. I'm not crazy about slip/choke collars, unless they are the kind with the snap so they can fit right behind the ears.


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## Bentleysmom (Aug 11, 2012)

Ky has always worn a martingale collar. She doesn't need correction when she walks because she's a great walker but she can slip her head out of a flat collar if she wanted to. It would be very irresponsible of me to put a flat collar on her knowing that.

Bentley had a collar like the one in the OP pic. One day we were playing outside and he did a play bow, he got his foot caught in the chain so I threw it away. Now he wears a break away collar.

Each dog is different, each owner is different. As long as the dog isn't being abused I have no opinion on what other dogs wear.


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

I trained a Doberman with a choke chain when I was 13, but that was 30 yrs ago. I personally would rather use a prong given the choice. Much safer, IMO. I only use the prong for class now just as a reminder not to pull toward dogs and people. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I also trained with a choke collar 25 years ago, but I have found reward-based training to be far more effective.


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## JayBen (Aug 30, 2012)

I'm no dog trainer by any means. I only know what my trainer has taught me. I have used a flat collar, martingale, and prong. I really like the prong the best. I was completely against it at first, until our trainer put the martingale and prong on my arm and gave me a correction with each. The martingale was more of a choke and the prong was like a quick little "wake up". I'm slowly transitioning to just a flat collar now as she's walking so well. I try to keep it to just reward based training but occasionally the prong is effective


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## Jessie'sGirl (Aug 30, 2010)

I would never personally use a choke or prong collar. Reward based training, patience and consistency are tops in my mind.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Both my guys are trained with the same choke chain. Easiest training collar to use - slips on and off. Unlike most collars, there is absolutely no contact around the dog's neck unless there needs to be. Bertie especially is a doll when he sees me pull the chain out of my bag - this despite me just introducing the choke chain to him in the last month. He comes running up and sits in front of me.... waiting with his butt wiggling. That is the result of rewards based training, which I definitely believe in. I just happen to use a choke chain and I use corrections when necessary.  

The reason I had to comment here is that.... I truly believe it's risking injury if you leave your dog loose in the house or yard wearing any collar that can get caught on something and tighten up and strangle the dog. Some martingales that they make now only tighten up to a certain point to avoid any choking or strangling of the dog. But those fabric type martingales (fabric sliding through a loose ring, functions the same way as a choke chain) or choke chains should not be left on the dog. They should strictly be training collars - used only when you are actually training. Same thing with prongs.

Any time my guys leave the property - walks or car rides, they have their plain old regular buckle collars on. On the property, they are naked most of the time.


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