# Ultrasound Question



## Claire's Friend (Feb 26, 2007)

This is what I found:
A hypoechoic nodule is a fluid-filled or solid mass that casts limited, weakened echoes compared to the surrounding tissue during the administration of an ultrasound, or sonogram. Though this type of mass may be found in any part of the body, it is most frequently detected in the thyroid. Due to the characteristics of its composition, suspicion of malignancy may arise upon the discovery of a hypoechoic nodule prompting additional testing and biopsy. Treatment for a hypoechoic thyroid nodule is dependent on its type, composition, and the overall health of the individual.

Not so sure I like the sound of this considering it is in the spleen. Who read the Ultra sound, reg Vet or Radiologist?? Sorry ,I don't want to scare you.


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

I found these articles that are interesting:

What do hyperechoic and hypoechoic mean?

Splenic nodules

Other than that, I cannot answer your questions. I am sure the vets in the forum will chime in and help you out!

Good luck to Toby!


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## Claire's Friend (Feb 26, 2007)

More info


*Hyperechoic – more echogenic (brighter) than normal*
*Hypoechoic – less echogenic (darker) than normal*
*Isoechoic – the same echogenicity as another tissue *
So it sounds more like a term used


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Sigh, nothing can ever be clearcut, can it? 
I don't know what it means. I'd probably repeat the ultrasound in a few months to see if it's changed any.
When they found the small mass in HRH's spleen, they told me if it was any breed other than golden retriever or german shepherd, they'd just wait and see. In those two breeds, they remove the spleen.
Not much help, sorry.


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## Claire's Friend (Feb 26, 2007)

Ever more info:
There are many benign causes of splenic nodules and masses. These include nodular hyperplasia (extra splenic tissue), extramedullary hematopoesis (blood cell production outside of the bone marrow), granuloma (older inflammatory tissue), hematoma (blood leakage into the spleen), and myelolipoma (fat deposits). Myelolipomas are a bit more characteristic, as they are hyperechoic and surround the splenic veins near the medial surface.
Unfortunately, more serious diseases such as cancer and infarction, though less common, have similar characteristics. With ultrasound examinations, we can not always tell whether a nodule or mass is benign or malignant. If the lesion is large, and distorting the margin of the spleen by bulging outward, we are more likely to think it is a malignant disease. Regarless of the lesion size, the only way get a diagnosis is to perform a fine needle aspirate of the nodule or mass.


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## IowaGold (Nov 3, 2009)

It's pretty common for there to be little benign nodules on the spleens of older dogs. Given your experiences though, I'd discuss this finding with your vet. Maybe he'll want to do a follow up ultrasound in a few weeks/months to check for growth.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Thank you everyone for your information! It's helpful. I appreciate the links and definitions! 

I went back and pulled up my Barkley's ultrasound before his hemangiosarcoma diagnosis--it was reported by the same radiologist and did not mention any term like this--it basically said a large mass, and coupled with the blood abnormalities, suspected hemangiosarcoma. I thought if it mentioned a hypoechoic mass I'd be inclined to get something done asap. I next went to all the sonograms we've had done on Toby--one every 6 months dating back to August 2010. None of them mentioned anything but a normal spleen. So, this is a new finding. 

I talked by phone to Toby's vet last Friday and she only had a verbal report herself. I'll be asking her to call me next week so we can discuss what to do next. Toby's been through a lot during the past six months- double cataract removal surgery, and some major drugs floating through his system related to that procedure and his pancreatic enzyme scare. Maybe some of that affected him somehow....

In any event, I'm inclined to see if we can get a needle aspirate if at all possible. I don't know if it is even possible to do. I'm reluctant to put him under for a major surgery like a splenectomy so soon after his cataract surgery; however, if there is any indication this is a cancer that will be our next step. 

We were thinking about going to an annual sonogram/echocardiogram for Toby--for my own peace of mind I think we'll just stick to the 6 month plan. 

The clinic we use had another dog with a report very similar to this. The owner couldn't shake the feeling her dog had something going on and after consulting with the vet, she decided for a full surgical biopsy/splenectomy. It came back as hemangiosarcoma, at the earliest stages. They took that dog through intravenous chemo and oral chemo and last I heard, the dog was still alive two years later. 

Sigh.....


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Toby and you are in my thoughts and prayers. Try to not jump to the worst of conclusions. The old saying of a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing could apply.... esp since it's the weekend and many offices are closed. I hope all of you can enjoy this glorious weekend, and deal with this on Monday. I'm sure Tobes would love some more fetch at the field.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> Toby and you are in my thoughts and prayers. Try to not jump to the worst of conclusions. The old saying of a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing could apply.... esp since it's the weekend and many offices are closed. I hope all of you can enjoy this glorious weekend, and deal with this on Monday. I'm sure Tobes would love some more fetch at the field.


Thanks, but it's not that easy to turn my brain off. I don't think you can fully understand it and appreciate the concern unless you've taken a dog (in my case two dogs) through a hemangiosarcoma diagnosis. I'm not going into this blindly--I KNOW the worst case scenerio because I've lived through it ...twice.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Oh Anne, I know that. What I was trying to get at is what I'd preach to myself in the circumstances. Although I haven't taken dogs thru hemangio, I have had critical life threatening situations with family members where I was in just such a situation. And I almost drove myself mad with all the what ifs. Luckily I had family who could take me away from it at least for a short while to calm my mind. I'm hoping that you somehow can do that until you can find our for sure what this really means and the next step to take.


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## Cathy's Gunner (Dec 4, 2008)

Anne, I will continue to keep Toby in my thoughts and prayers. I wish you could call your vet and get some answers. I'm lucky that I keep in touch with my vet even on weekends if I need her. Maybe you should request a number from your vet and see if they offer a weekend number to help you through times like this...hugs!


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Cathy's Gunner said:


> Anne, I will continue to keep Toby in my thoughts and prayers. I wish you could call your vet and get some answers. I'm lucky that I keep in touch with my vet even on weekends if I need her. Maybe you should request a number from your vet and see if they offer a weekend number to help you through times like this...hugs!


Thanks Cathy. I already emailed the vet a couple of hours ago and told her I wanted to discuss this with her next week and asked if we could possibly talk about an aspirate biopsy or a consult with an oncologist or internal medicine specialist at the big referral center here. She knows our history and my desire to be proactive when it comes to anything related to the spleen in a golden retriever. In fact she has a retriever (a different breed) as well and will be doing an annual sonogram on him to check his spleen, due to the propensity of retrievers for problems in this area. We'll get to the bottom of this one way or another...I'm not one to let it go without follow up of some sort.

In the meantime I'll keep a close eye on him. It doesn't help when he is whining while he is resting right now--I have to stop to determine if he's truly in pain or if he's wanting to play or eat.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Sending healing thoughts for Toby and calm for you.


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## Buddy's mom forever (Jun 23, 2011)

I am so sorry, I was just catching up on another thread and was happy to read about sonogram and throw balls. I am going to light a candle and keep your sweet boy in my thoughts and prayers.


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

My golden gang and I will be thinking positive thoughts for guidance and strength. I wish the results were more definite that they were clear so you weren't put into this difficult place.
<<HUGS>>


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

BayBeams said:


> My golden gang and I will be thinking positive thoughts for guidance and strength. I wish the results were more definite that they were clear so you weren't put into this difficult place.
> <<HUGS>>


Thank you. Anyone who has gone through hemangiosarcoma and/or a benign splenetic tumor with their dog knows that days matter and you can't delay at the earliest signs of an issue, because the cancer is so aggressive or the risk of a bleed out is dangerous. A kind forum member PM'd me reminding me that aspirates may not pick up a cancer and that is correct. So....knowing there is some sort of nodule on a spleen and deciding the best course of action is definitely on my mind. The radiologist reading the report sees hundreds of these things, but does he really know what the eventual outcome is when he opines about the significance? The answer is probably not. 

So, I have a dilemma. Do we continue to monitor, and if so, how long between ultrasounds? Even if it's a benign growth or hematoma, there is a risk of a bleed out and death to consider if we continue to just monitor it. If it weren't for concern about jeopardizing Toby's cataract recovery by putting him through an hours long surgery, I think I'd be more proactive about this and get the spleen out now. After all, that is one of the reasons why we are doing the six month scans now --to catch something at it's earliest stages, in addition to monitoring his enlarged lymph node in his abdomen. He's at that age when we need to take any new growth seriously, yet, on the other hand, dogs can get these nodules as they age, most without consequence. I'll be having some discussions with Toby's vet, his ophthalmologist and possibly getting an oncologist or internist involved.


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## Cathy's Gunner (Dec 4, 2008)

Anne, I'm so sorry for all of these unknowns going on right now with Toby. I hope you will be able to talk to someone tomorrow to guide you the safest way for Toby. Keeping all of you in my thoughts and prayers. Hugs!


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

Oh no.
I'm going to go see if by some chance I have some of that paperwork from Copper.

I was so totally uneducated back then and jsut didn't know enough to panic too badly. Copper had two nodules on his spleen. The vet said we could wait and monitor. He had a repeat ultrasound TWO months or so later. ONe had stayed the same and one had grown slightly.

The recommendation then was to remove the spleen. Also recommended was a heart ultrasound to check for (I now know) Hemangio. The night before Copper's heart ultraosund we got a call that my FIL had had a stroke and would not make it. In the middle of that crisis I managed to take Copper the hour drive to the ultrasound which was good, but I just don't remember what she said.

We finally had Copper's spleen out almost two weeks later - almost 3 months after we first found the nodules. They of course were benign and we went on to have 20 more months.

It sure sounds negligent now, but I didn't know about hemagio or how prevalent it was in Goldens.

I can't remember how long you were going to wait for a repeat ultrasound. You could have one a lot sooner and see if the nodules are growing and make a decision from that. BUT, with no personal experience I can't really give advice. Sometimes they are benign and I hope that is what hypoechoic means. You and Toby are in my thoughts and prayers.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Teresa, thanks for recounting your experiences. It really does help me to formulate a plan of action. I'm in planning mode, trying to think this through all the possible angles of attack. Your Copper and HRH Toby gave me such hope during the first day's of Barkley's issues; but unfortunately we ended up on the cancer side of the statistics...for a second time... Before Barb and you posted I never knew spleens could have tumors that are benign, but the need to get them out is just as urgent because they are equally as life-threatening if they burst and the dog bleeds out. Right now we are at a "nodule" stage, which is under 4 cm, and that may factor into the radiologist's assessment as well. The more I mull this over, the more I want to consult an oncologist, so that's what I'm going to ask to do.

In the meantime, Toby is being spoiled, as usual today. He got a 4 mile walk this morning and we'll follow up with another one this afternoon. I'm sure he will serenade me with his whimpers and cries after that--which mean that (i) he is hungry, (ii) he wants to play ball, or (iii) he isn't feeling good--leaving me to guess!


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

I am glad Sir Toby is being spoiled.:smooch:

Both of Copper's tumors were smaller than that I believe. His internal specialist did say they needed to come out since even benign tumors can rupture.

I found the paperwork from after his splenectomy, but not the diagnostic part yet.

He had the spleen removed, a tumor removed from his stomach that had perforated the stomach wall (found during surgery - I loved his surgeon) and a very large lipoma removed from alongside his penis. That poor boy was cut from scrotum to breastbone and had a fair amount of bruising and many, many staples. The point of that is, he was walking normally in 5 days and we went on a 3 mile or more trail ride in 2.5 weeks with his vets' blessings. Barkley recovered quickly too I believe. It just doesn't seem to be as hard on them as I would expect.

Can you also talk to Toby's opthamologist and see what he says about the surgery adversely affecting Toby's eye recovery?

Copper's repeat ultrasound was about 2 months and showed significant growth. I wouldn't wait more than 4 - 6 weeks if you decide to go that way.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

coppers-mom said:


> I am glad Sir Toby is being spoiled.:smooch:
> 
> Both of Copper's tumors were smaller than that I believe. His internal specialist did say they needed to come out since even benign tumors can rupture.
> 
> ...


Thanks Teresa! What I'd like to do is get an appointment at the diagnostic clinic that is on the same floor as Toby's ophthalmologist. They have an oncologist now and we are very familiar with that clinic now. I figure they'd want to run new labs (the last ones are less than a month old), take an xray or two and do their own sonogram before making an assessment or recommendation. 

I was shocked at how quickly Barkley recovered--he was ready to roll almost immediately and we had a very hard time keeping him still! The big risk is licking and pulling the stitches out, for about 10 days after the surgery--Toby would definitely be a bigger challenge in that respect. He has singular focus on things like that. Since we've been through the splenectomy surgical recovery--I know what we are facing and know we can muddle our way through it again if necessary. If we were to go that route and it turned out to be benign--then we'd need to continually worry about a compromised immune system. The fact that Copper and HRH Toby, as well as some other forum dogs lived long lives after splenectomy does give me encouragement that we can handle that as well, should it happen that way. 

Should we do the splenectomy I think I'd ask them to remove and biopsy the internal lymph node we've followed so closely the past two years.

The big question for me is two major surgeries in less than a year. That's what I need the veterinary experts to consult and advise me about after they physically examine Toby and do whatever tests they need. Plus, will putting him under affect the eyes in any way? I got the clearance to do a dental cleaning for him in May, but only if he were put on antibiotics before and after. Maybe that means he's past that critical part of his recovery. Push come to shove though, I'll gladly take a blind or visually impaired dog over a dog with an enlarging splenetic tumor growing inside, should it grow while it is being monitored.

Lots to consider--making a list.


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

I still haven't found his other paperwork, but I did find the initial diagnosis.

"There were two cystic masses in the spleen, one less than 1 cm the second 1.5 cm diameter. Due to the prevalence of hemangiosarcoma in Golden Retrievers these masses should either monitored closely or the spleen removed.":doh: I can't believe I waited.

The larger one was over 2.0 cm on he two month recheck from what I remember.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

coppers-mom said:


> I still haven't found his other paperwork, but I did find the initial diagnosis.
> 
> "There were two cystic masses in the spleen, one less than 1 cm the second 1.5 cm diameter. Due to the prevalence of hemangiosarcoma in Golden Retrievers these masses should either monitored closely or the spleen removed.":doh: I can't believe I waited.
> 
> The larger one was over 2.0 cm on he two month recheck from what I remember.


Teresa, you are such a godsend to me right now and makes me not feel ridiculous for being concerned about this. It's also reinforcing my opinion that you don't wait around to investigate these things if at all possible. Thank you so much!


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

I do think you should be concerned and also *YES* to having the troublesome lymph node removed at the same time. I so wish I had had Copper's awful cysts on his head removed then too, but they were little at that time. By the time he needed them removed they thought he couldn't handle the surgery.

Keep in mind though that the larger tumor was about 2.0 cm two months later and the smaller one had not grown. You said Toby's is under 4 cm - do you know the exactish size?

Waiting in Copper's case was not a problem, thank God. I wouldn't wait now IF there were no other issues like Toby's eyes. I think you can trust your vets to tell if it is a good idea to wait with monitoring.

Copper's surgeon said he "removed and palpated":yuck: all of Copper's organs and that is how he found the stomach tumor. The stomach tumor did NOT show up on ultrasound and he said it woud have killed Copper soon so there - I won the lottery twice.

We on GRF need and deserve another lottery winner now. I'll hope and pray our Toby is the one.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

coppers-mom said:


> I do think you should be concerned and also *YES* to having the troublesome lymph node removed at the same time. I so wish I had had Copper's awful cysts on his head removed then too, but they were little at that time. By the time he needed them removed they thought he couldn't handle the surgery.
> 
> Keep in mind though that the larger tumor was about 2.0 cm two months later and the smaller one had not grown. You said Toby's is under 4 cm - do you know the exactish size?
> 
> ...


The report isn't very clear on the size--guess I need to find out. It's very helpful to hear of your experience with Copper.


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

I think I would consult with an oncologist, as well, if I were in your shoes.
I remember when Beau had a melanoma removed from his lip my regular vet (who I think is the best ever) told me it was benign. When I took Beau for a consult with the oncologist regarding the melanoma and some mast cell tumors he had, the oncologist took one glance at the pathology report and stated "melanoma's on the lip are not benign". During the mast cell removals the onc. removed wider margins on the lip where the melanoma had been to ensure that there was no return of the tumor. The peace of mind this gave me was well worth the oncology consult and the melanoma never returned on the lip but he developed a new one on the eyelid, which she promptly removed.
We have to be ever vigilant for our "kids" even if that means we have the worry that goes along with it...
Keeping you in our thoughts...


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## Cathy's Gunner (Dec 4, 2008)

Thinking of you and Toby this morning. I hope you can get in to see someone soon to figure out what you are going to do. Hugs!


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

Have you talked to Toby's vets? Have any appointments?????
Ah darn - you are in my thoughts and prayers.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

coppers-mom said:


> Have you talked to Toby's vets? Have any appointments?????
> Ah darn - you are in my thoughts and prayers.


No appointments yet, but the wheels are in motion. As you can imagine, they are turning too slowly for me, but at least they are in motion. I called the clinic and left a message for Toby's vet and the nurse. The reception team member who took my call is fantastic and I told her what was going on. She told me the oncologist I mentioned I'd like to consult is who they recommend (whew...because there is another one in town that I don't hold a high opinion of). I also asked if it would be OK to speak to another vet in the practice who had a dog with a similar ultrasound result--that dog's owner decided on surgery and it was hemangiosarcoma. The dog had/has been in remission for several years and this vet credits the owner for saving her dog's life by insisting on followup. 

Toby seems to be having an active morning--some mornings he's been fairly lethargic, which is a recent development. This morning he made a wide circle around our house with his wubba squeaking away, just doing what I call a slow zoomie! He's now positioned behind our storm door--roooing and barking away!


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

Dallas Gold said:


> This morning he made a wide circle around our house with his wubba squeaking away, just doing what I call a slow zoomie! He's now positioned behind our storm door--roooing and barking away!


LOVE this! Reminds me of my happy Beau...


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I didn't keep HRH's paperwork after he departed for the bridge, but it seems to me his splenic mass was smaller than that, too.
Sending hugs.


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

Sending only positive thoughts Toby's way. I hope everything turns out to be nothing to worry about.


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

from Claire's friend:
"_A hypoechoic __nodule__ is a_ _fluid-filled_ _or solid mass that casts limited, weakened echoes compared to the surrounding tissue during the administration of an ultrasound, or __sonogram_."

I am hoping and praying for a little _fluid filled CYST_.:smooch: 'cause Copper's were cysts and no big problem.
I honestly think all the signs and information I have found on this point in that direction:crossfing, 

Slow zoomies and a wubba - that makes me smile. give Toby many, many kisses for me.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

coppers-mom said:


> from Claire's friend:
> "_A hypoechoic __nodule__ is a_ _fluid-filled_ _or solid mass that casts limited, weakened echoes compared to the surrounding tissue during the administration of an ultrasound, or __sonogram_."
> 
> I am hoping and praying for a little _fluid filled CYST_.:smooch: 'cause Copper's were cysts and no big problem.
> ...


Boy do I hope you are right! Did you do an aspirate first or just proceed to the splenectomy? Aspirates might miss a cancer cell so they seem hit or miss. I guess this is a question I should write down and ask at the vet appointment.


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

Aspiration was not recommended by his vets. If the nodule is cancer, the needle aspiration can contaminate along its path is what I was told. they did do aspirations on many of his lumps, but they were close to or on the surface. Maybe that is the difference.

When the inital US revealed the cysts, the vet wrote that in GRs she would recommend a splenectomy, but we could wait and monitor closely. I don't think I shuld have waited, I don't think I had the repeat US done soon enough and I wouldn't choose to do it that way again.

I honestly had never spent that kind of money on a dog($2000) and had to adjust my (and DH's) thinking to that. copper taught me to spend a LOT of money IMO and never regret it.

Once I understood how easy it was for Copper to get skin infections after his splenectomy I started washing him much more often and with medicated shampoo. I also kept cephalexin around to give him if it did flare up. the rest of his problems IMO ,were from age and not the splenectomy. You know he went on long trail rides for over a year after and only quit when his arthritis got too bad.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

coppers-mom said:


> Aspiration was not recommended by his vets. If the nodule is cancer, the needle aspiration can contaminate along its path is what I was told. they did do aspirations on many of his lumps, but they were close to or on the surface. Maybe that is the difference.
> 
> When the inital US revealed the cysts, the vet wrote that in GRs she would recommend a splenectomy, but we could wait and monitor closely. I don't think I shuld have waited, I don't think I had the repeat US done soon enough and I wouldn't choose to do it that way again.
> 
> ...


Barkley broke the bank for us, even before his hemangio diagnosis.  Toby is running up a tab with his digestive enzyme issues and then the cataract surgery! I guess it's too late for pet insurance.:doh:


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## Belle's Mom (Jan 24, 2007)

Checking in for an update.....hopefully you can be seen soon!


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## Buddy's mom forever (Jun 23, 2011)

Sending my prayers.


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

Thinking of you and your boy this morning.
Call me if you want to talk, vent, anything.
(864) 506-6212


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

coppers-mom said:


> Thinking of you and your boy this morning.
> Call me if you want to talk, vent, anything.
> (864) 506-6212


I put another nagging phone call this morning. In addition to getting the referral, we still are awaiting decision on an anti-inflammatory for Toby's eyes. Between the ophthalmologist being out of town and Toby's vet's clinic hours, time goes s-l-o-w-l-y....


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## Cathy's Gunner (Dec 4, 2008)

Sorry things are dragging for you Anne. Hope you hear something soon..... Hugs for all of you.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

I just got a call from the specialty clinic, which is literally down the hall from Toby's ophthalmologist. Their policy is to consult with an internist first, then, if needed, the oncologist. Our appointment is 8 a.m. tomorrow. We will have them look at the sonogram report to address the splenetic nodule and the enlarged lymph node and also the growth we've been watching on his muzzle. When we are done we'll get an eye pressure check. Hopefully we'll get good news after this visit.


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## Claire's Friend (Feb 26, 2007)

:crossfing:crossfing:crossfing:crossfing:crossfing:crossfing:crossfing:crossfing:crossfing:crossfing:crossfing:crossfing:crossfing:crossfing:crossfing:crossfing:crossfing:crossfing:crossfing:crossfing:crossfing:crossfing:crossfing:crossfing


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

I'll say a pryer for good news tomorrow.
whew! I'm glad you have an appointment. the stress is too much for me.:smooch:


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

coppers-mom said:


> I'll say a pryer for good news tomorrow.
> whew! I'm glad you have an appointment. the stress is too much for me.:smooch:


They will probably do another Ultrasound tomorrow-I hope they don't need to shave even more off of him. 

I picked up his records at the vets--they were too big to fax...I'll say--I now know I've paid for at least one college education for the clinic owner, in the past year alone.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Prayers going for Tobey.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Praying for good news.


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## PrincessDi (Jun 8, 2009)

Have no idea how I missed your thread Anne. I'm so sorry that you and Toby are going through this on top of everything else this year. I know how scary it was when we thought that max had HS after loosing DI. Can't imagine how frightening this is for you after having 2 kids have this. On my way to light a candle and will send up lots of thoughts and prayers for you both...........and I second :crossfing:crossfing:crossfing:crossfing:crossfing:crossfing:crossfing:crossfing:crossfing:crossfing:crossfing:crossfing:crossfing:crossfing:crossfing:crossfing:crossfing:crossfing


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## Belle's Mom (Jan 24, 2007)

Praying you and Toby get good news tomorrow - on the eyes and the sonogram check!! I assume you are fasting him which will also be a tragic morning event for poor starved Toby....and you will be secretly eating in the laundry room.


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## Buddy's mom forever (Jun 23, 2011)

Praying for good news tomorrow.


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

Hang in there...thinking of you everyday...


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## maple1144 (Oct 18, 2009)

praying for a great outcome!


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## SandyK (Mar 20, 2011)

Somehow I missed your post. Poor Toby...poor you...can't you guys get a break? I am glad you have a vet appt. I will keep my fingers crossed and pray for good news!!!


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Belle's Mom said:


> Praying you and Toby get good news tomorrow - on the eyes and the sonogram check!! I assume you are fasting him which will also be a tragic morning event for poor starved Toby....and you will be secretly eating in the laundry room.


Yes, we will be torturing the little poor skinny dog this morning and will get the pitiful puppy eyes when he realizes his fate for the morning.  I hate doing this, but it makes the labs, sonogram and radiograph easier for the internist to interpret, so.... we'll torture our poor boy. Never mind we fed him 2 extra Kongs (big ones) BEFORE 8 last night! There has to be a better way!


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## Cathy's Gunner (Dec 4, 2008)

Sending good thoughts and prayers for Toby. I will be watching for an update later today. Good luck, Sir Toby! Lots of good treats and food after your test.....


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

Thinking of you and saying a prayer for our Toby.:smooch:


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Teresa, OUR Toby wants to come live with you. He is NOT pleased with this starvation diet this a.m. I ate my breakfast out of his presence but when he saw me he started barking and lecturing me, so I told him " I know, I know...go tell your Dad" and he did! Dad sent him right back to me. We're leaving in a few minutes for the long drive up there. I sure hope I can report back later today the internist thinks I'm a big worry wart and Toby's just fine.:crossfing


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

You are soooo bad pulling the old go ask your dad trick.

I too hope you get a lecture about being a worry wart and you all can celebrate with good yummies after.:crossfing


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## Belle's Mom (Jan 24, 2007)

I am praying the internist is right and all is fine!!


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## ELI&BAILEY'S MOM (Dec 18, 2008)

Positive thoughts and prayers for Toby!


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Dallas Gold*

Dallas Gold

So sorry I don't know what it means, but I will keep Toby and you in my prayers. I understand your fear of hemangiosarcoma.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

DG, so sorry, I'm just now seeing this about Toby. 

My thoughts and prayers are with you. Hoping for good results for Mr. Toby, you've all been through so much.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

I got basically good news and didn't get the lecture that I'm a worry wart. Instead the internist told Toby was lucky to have us and we were being proactive. 

They did another sonogram, noted the enlarged lymph node, measured it, and noted a 3mm nodule on the spleen. He said given the entire look of the spleen, the fact it wasn't enlarged, his blood work is good, and his physical exam was good, he wanted to sonogram it in 5 more weeks to see if it's grown, then determine a course of action. With Goldens they basically do splenectomies if anything worries them. Aspirates are very unreliable. 

So...good news. He was a very nice internist. Toby was very LOUD in the waiting area, but was friendly with everyone. Once again he fell asleep in the sonogram wedge! They commented on how good he was!

We went next door and got an impromptu eye pressure check. 10 and 8--status quo, with the eye pressures reversed! 

We are exhausted, but glad we did this. Of course it's costing an arm and a leg, but it brings peace of mind. With Goldens, you just can't be lax about spleens or anything to do with spleens. 

Thanks everyone for prayers, thoughts and well wishes. They help!

Oh, and Toby's "theme" song came up on the ipod when we started the car--Born to be Wild by Steppenwolf....I took that as a sign things would be fine.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

So good to hear!


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

So glad the news was good, it's always better to be proactive IMO. 

Rest, relax, and enjoy this Leap Day with your special boy.


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

I am so happy that you had good news. Hugs to Toby!


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

A couple of thoughts about our visit--I was sad in the waiting area because so many owners arrived with obviously distressed dogs. So many caring and loving owners facing sad news or a major illness with their beloved pets. I really wanted Toby to be quiet and not go barky crazy any time someone talked or a dog walked in. We ended up letting many of the dogs sniff one another and Toby was great, and he tried his best to seek attention and pets from some of the owners. As we were checking out the owners of a BEAUTIFUL Irish Setter were checking out--they left their dog for testing and the lady had all the dogs medications in a ziploc--LOTS of medications. She looked so sad. She asked me how old Toby is and I told her 8. That's how old her setter is. I've been saying prayers for that dog and the owners all day, hoping they get some positive news when they pick the dog up later. 

Also, the internist basically confirmed what many of us on the forum have been posting about goldens and spleens--when in doubt, get them out. He also was very reassuring about the dogs living long lives if the diagnosis is benign once the spleen is biopsied. He also said that a growth on a spleen can burst at any time and be life threatening so you don't need a cancer suspicion to get a splenectomy recommendation.


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## Cathy's Gunner (Dec 4, 2008)

Glad to hear your news on Toby. I will pray that in five weeks it has stayed the same size or shrunk.

Thanks for the information you received from the internist. Good news to know...


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

:artydude

In my all too often experience at the specialists office, it always did my heart good to see a dog doing well. I'm sure they all rejoiced in Toby's exuberant love of life.

Just as I do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am ecstatic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

The other thing I forgot to mention--they kept on telling me their sonogram was state of the art with a higher resolution than most. He said the fact their resolution was better than most machines and it didn't show anything that alarmed him was a good thing. I didn't think that the "traveling" sonogram machines might be less resolution than the ones in the specialty centers, but it very well may be the case. That's something to keep in the back recesses of the mind for the future. It's one reason why we elected to redo the sonogram at that office, rather than our regular vets office.


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

Hooray for all else looking good!


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## PrincessDi (Jun 8, 2009)

Wonderful to hear good news on the forum for your Toby!! Will continue to keep you both in our thoughts and prayers that in 5 weeks, the news is still good!


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## Belle's Mom (Jan 24, 2007)

WOOHOO Toby!!!


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## SandyK (Mar 20, 2011)

Very happy to read you had a good visit!! I bet Toby was glad to eat when he got home. I hope you will get good results in 5 weeks!!


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## GoldensGirl (Aug 2, 2010)

Dallas Gold said:


> ...Also, the internist basically confirmed what many of us on the forum have been posting about goldens and spleens--when in doubt, get them out. He also was very reassuring about the dogs living long lives if the diagnosis is benign once the spleen is biopsied. He also said that a growth on a spleen can burst at any time and be life threatening so you don't need a cancer suspicion to get a splenectomy recommendation.


Such wonderful news that Toby's internist saw nothing that worried him!. Hurray!!!!!!

My Charlie had his spleen removed when he was 7 and lived almost 6 years after that, not quite reaching his 13th birthday. The surgeon who removed his spleen was delighted to have a healthy dog coming into the surgery, though he heartily agreed that the spleen needed to come out. We were lucky and the mass on my boy's spleen was benign, but it still presented a serious risk of rupture and bleeding out for an active retriever.

Please give Toby a good belly rub for me.


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## Buddy's mom forever (Jun 23, 2011)

Thanks for good update, hugs and kisses to TobyT.


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## hubbub (Jun 28, 2011)

I'm so sorry I didn't see this before! I just read through the thread and am glad to see you were able to get into the specialist and that you'll be heading back for a recheck soon. All our fingers and toes will be crossed for you all.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

hubbub said:


> I'm so sorry I didn't see this before! I just read through the thread and am glad to see you were able to get into the specialist and that you'll be heading back for a recheck soon. All our fingers and toes will be crossed for you all.


There's a lot going on with this forum, I can see why you missed it! 

Toby had a very eventful and traumatic week. As soon as his vet got word from the internist visit she emailed and said his ophthalmologist wanted him on Rimadyl or enteric coated aspirin (with the gastic bleeding risk) immediately to reduce the inflammation/fibrin in his eyes. After a lot of research and thought about it (Toby reacted earlier to the Rimadyl) DH and I decided we wanted to go with Rimadyl over the aspirin and we were encouraged to add in sucralfate one hour before meals, pepcid 30 minutes before, and then feed the rimadyl with the meal, to reduce the side effects of acid reflux we experienced earlier. I also wanted some liver protection, so we got him some Denamarin. Well, he threw up repeatedly that first night. He also wheezed, which was even more frightening to me because I've never had a dog wheeze like that. After a sleepless night I came up with a new game plan. We dropped the sucralfate because it is difficult to get in him (dissolved and injected through a needless syringe) and I thought perhaps that was the cause of the wheezing. We also dropped the Denamarin, but plan to add it back in once we find out if he can tolerate Rimadyl and pepcid. We had a good night last night so I think the sucralfate was his issue. If he continues to do well, without acid reflux, we will add the Denamarin back in and :crossfing.


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

I am so sorry you and Toby had such a traumatic week.
You are in my thoughts and prayers many times a day.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

coppers-mom said:


> I am so sorry you and Toby had such a traumatic week.
> You are in my thoughts and prayers many times a day.


On a brighter note, he seems to be doing well today, barking, without gasping or gagging, at his nemesis, the squirrel, aka "Tree Kitty" and "Toby's Tormentor".  Dropping the sucralfate was hopefully the key to his vomiting issues. Go figure....normally dogs get it to coat an irritated tummy.


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

The great thing about Denamarin, if Toby can take it, is that the sam-e has an effect of improving the overall comfort of a dog (at least that is what my rehab vet for Baylee indicated). She prefers to use this with a dog with typical aging joint aches as it has the added effect of benefitting the liver, which it is actually designed for.
I hope you are able to get the meds worked out for Toby and that you don't have too many more worrisome, sleepless nights.


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## Claire's Friend (Feb 26, 2007)

Glad to hear Toby is feeling better. All of you have been through enough. Hoping for a much better week !! XXOO


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

So happy that Toby is feeling better!


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

BayBeams said:


> The great thing about Denamarin, if Toby can take it, is that the sam-e has an effect of improving the overall comfort of a dog (at least that is what my rehab vet for Baylee indicated). She prefers to use this with a dog with typical aging joint aches as it has the added effect of benefitting the liver, which it is actually designed for.
> I hope you are able to get the meds worked out for Toby and that you don't have too many more worrisome, sleepless nights.


It's our goal to get Toby on both SamE and Milk Thistle, probably not through Denamarin, but we were trying to get him on something immediately when we started the Rimadyl and the vet had the denamarin. I had purchased Milk Thistle earlier and it had added ingredients (Dandelion, Fennel and Licorice) I wasn't comfortable with, especially since Licorice increase blood pressure and Toby is on hypertension meds. 

I like the Sam E because of it's anti-inflammatory benefits and need the Milk Thistle to protect his liver while he is on Rimadyl.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Dallas Gold said:


> The other thing I forgot to mention--they kept on telling me their sonogram was state of the art with a higher resolution than most. He said the fact their resolution was better than most machines and it didn't show anything that alarmed him was a good thing. I didn't think that the "traveling" sonogram machines might be less resolution than the ones in the specialty centers, but it very well may be the case. That's something to keep in the back recesses of the mind for the future. It's one reason why we elected to redo the sonogram at that office, rather than our regular vets office.


When Brady had to have the ultrasound at the specialy vet, they told me it was a good one because it was a "human ultrasound machine". Did not know there was a difference there either.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Didn't realize you were going through so much. Glad to see things seem to be looking better.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

cubbysan said:


> Didn't realize you were going through so much. Glad to see things seem to be looking better.


Thanks, I've never had a dog that is so dog gone sensitive to medications. I learned something--never assume a medication that is generally assumed safe with few side effects will be OK for your dog. I also learned to introduce things slowly, one thing at a time.


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## PrincessDi (Jun 8, 2009)

So sorry that Toby had a rough week. He's so lucky to have a parent that is so proactive in his health. Hope this will be a better week for both of you.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

The consensus from Toby's veterinarian team is we need to start him on a very low dose of Denamarin. They suggested halving his tablets (despite label directions) and giving it with food initially. Sam E can affect some dogs adversely with stomach nausea/irritation when first starting on it and we need to build up slowly and gradually. To "speed" it along I went and bought a very low dose of Sam E and separate Milk Thistle and will go even lower and slower.

Toby was a wild boy today before acupuncture. He greeted everyone in the clinic with his "outside" voice. When he realized we were walking to the vets he took off in a half run to get there so he could socialize!


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## Claire's Friend (Feb 26, 2007)

:banana::banana::banana: Sounds like you are moving in the right direction !!


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

Dallas Gold said:


> Toby was a wild boy today before acupuncture. He greeted everyone in the clinic with his "outside" voice. When he realized we were walking to the vets he took off in a half run to get there *so he could socialize*!


Thanks for the laugh Tobster, you shy retiring boy!:smooch:


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

coppers-mom said:


> Thanks for the laugh Tobster, you shy retiring boy!:smooch:


You will be happy to know Toby is out socializing with the workers re-roofing my back neighbor's home.  I'm sure those workers appreciate it too. :no:


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## Buddy's mom forever (Jun 23, 2011)

Toby is such a sweetheart, using every opportunity to show what is a golden all about. Hugs to a sweet boy.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

I added a small amount of Sam E in to Toby's medications yesterday with no ill effects.


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

that's great and now he gets a mood boost too.:uhoh::smooch:


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

I am glad Toby is doing so well. Goldens are such lovebugs, lol.


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

How's sir toby doing?


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

coppers-mom said:


> How's sir toby doing?


I could have sworn I posted a reply! It's out in cyberspace somewhere. :uhoh:
Toby is doing great. The Pepcid is helping with the acid reflux caused by the Rimadyl. We have him on a full dose of Denamarin too--we just needed to add the Sam E in smaller doses. 

IMO the Rimadyl is causing his eye pressures to drop, which is not what the ophthalmologist wants. When we had him on it earlier his pressures were below 5 or 6, and they improved slightly when we stopped it, to 8 and 10 at his last ophthalmology check up. I took him in earlier this week when I refilled a drop and the pressures dropped to 4 and 6 again. I'll discuss it with his OPH at the next appointment in a little over a week. The ophthalmologist wants his pressures in the 10-12 range. 

Toby will be "fasting"/starving tomorrow morning because we'll be walking him down to his vet for a fasting blood draw to check on his hct (for the spot/nodule on his spleen) and his liver enzymes to make sure the Rimadyl isn't elevating them. So I will be trying to hide while I enjoy :no: my breakfast. He is so mistreated with us. 

My hubby accidentally took a few of Toby's Denamarin--he's fine!!


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## hubbub (Jun 28, 2011)

I hope you things go well tomorrow! Poor Toby having to starve 



Dallas Gold said:


> My hubby accidentally took a few of Toby's Denamarin--he's fine!!


A friend took her dog's thyroid supplement and was a bit wired for the day. Glad there was no problem with the Denamarin - you guys don't need any more trouble


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## Belle's Mom (Jan 24, 2007)

Poor starving Toby......we will be watching for the humane society to be in the neighborhood to take him away due to his lack of food......LOL


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## Buddy's mom forever (Jun 23, 2011)

Good luck tomorrow morning. Hugs to Toby.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Belle's Mom said:


> Poor starving Toby......we will be watching for the humane society to be in the neighborhood to take him away due to his lack of food......LOL


If you listen carefully around 6:30 a.m. this morning, you might be able to hear his plaintive wails over not being fed--he's that loud!!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

will be thinking of you guys today, hoping all goes well.


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## Cathy's Gunner (Dec 4, 2008)

Thinking of you and hoping Sir Toby's blood work comes out good. Major breakfast for him when you get home....


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## hubbub (Jun 28, 2011)

Fingers and toes crossed! At least this appt is a walk away and not the long car ride  That probably doesn't make Toby feel better, but it might make him walk home quickly


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Believe me, he will get 2 breakfasts--one at the clinic with the freebie Hills TD treats they keep in all the exam rooms and then when we get home. I was able to eat my breakfast without him knowing--but he's feeling sorry for himself--poor little guy. Every time we do these blood draws I ask the vet or nurse, do we really need to fast him? They always tell me yes, even though no other vets in the area require it. They said they don't want anything interfering with the interpretation on the blood.


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

Dallas Gold said:


> If you listen carefully around 6:30 a.m. this morning, you might be able to hear his plaintive wails over not being fed--he's that loud!!


So that's what woke me up early this morning.
I'm glad Toby is doing well overall. Give him some kisses for me.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

coppers-mom said:


> So that's what woke me up early this morning.
> I'm glad Toby is doing well overall. Give him some kisses for me.


Belle's Mom and I live within a quarter mile or so of one another (guesstimate) so she may have heard the show this morning! He does NOT have an inside voice--he could wake the dead!  He got blood drawn and is fed and happy. We won't get results in until Monday most likely.


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## Belle's Mom (Jan 24, 2007)

I thought I heard someone being attacked and screaming for help at 6:30 ......now it makes sense - poor Toby being neglected by his mommy and yelling for help......just kidding. 

Glad it went well today and praying for good test results.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

I'm starving and torturing Toby this morning , because he has an appointment for a follow-up ultrasound today at the internist's office to monitor the splenetic nodule. I'll post a follow up once we know what is going on.


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## hubbub (Jun 28, 2011)

No wonder I slept so restlessly! : Fingers and toes crossed for a good report :crossfing


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

Hoping and praying all goes well.


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

Keeping my fingers crossed. Good luck to Toby and that he can eat soon! I always found it the hardest thing to have to starve my furkids before surgeries or any type of sedation or procedure where they have to have an empty stomach.


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## Cathy's Gunner (Dec 4, 2008)

Hoping for some good news......:crossfing:crossfing:crossfing:crossfing


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## dborgers (Dec 7, 2011)

Good luck today. Hope he has a perfect report.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Here's the scoop--the nodule is still there, but there is no blood flow to it. It is the same size as well. The lymph node is slightly reduced, after watching it for over 18 months. The Internist said the best news would be not finding the nodule, but the fact it hasn't grown and there is no blood flow is good. Toby's energy is up near the ceiling (he was wild today) , like when he was a puppy, his blood work is perfect, his gums are nice and pink, he eats like a dog double his size, so that leads the Internist to recommend a follow up in a few months. He thinks it's a 99.4% chance this is a benign growth and doesn't think a splenectomy is in order right now. I'll discuss a follow up sonogram with his regular vet, but I think I will have it done at the specialty clinic because the machine is state of the art and it's about $100 cheaper.  

Toby was REALLY talking in the waiting area today.  The chairs were filled with old Cat Ladies () with loud cats and that just set him off. There was no getting him quiet. He also wanted to visit with EVERYONE, and if they didn't want to, he'd bark at them. The cat ladies didn't want to visit (grrrr--I'm a dog person, but I will visit their cats in the crates)--they were downright unsocial. The staff thought it was pretty funny and one of the nurses told me Toby is one of her favorite patients because he is so social and interactive.  He'd be a great" therapy" dog, but for the big fact he doesn't possess an off switch ha ha!! 

We also dropped by his ophthalmologist on the same floor to deliver a thank you, a framed photo of Toby catching a ball mid-air and another photo of Toby with a ball in his mouth, both showing his eyes. They were very pleased.  No pressure checks today though. 

Toby actually got about 3 kibbles as incentive to jump in the car--sparing my back. I rewarded him on the drive home, then gave him his breakfast. He's happy now.


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

Lol, I am glad Toby is doing so well, very good news!


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

toby is happy and I am ecstatic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hugs and smooches all around!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Cathy's Gunner (Dec 4, 2008)

Wonderful news, Anne! I'm sooo happy for you. Hope you are safe from the storms too. Please check in to one of those threads for us....


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## Claire's Friend (Feb 26, 2007)

:banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::kiss:


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## hubbub (Jun 28, 2011)

About time!!!! Hooray for Toby and his family


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## goldencontriever3 (Nov 7, 2008)

Wonderful news!!!!! Give Toby a big hug from us!


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Super news Anne. So glad to hear.


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## Buddy's mom forever (Jun 23, 2011)

Happy to read good news. Hugs to Toby.


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