# Keeping Dog Lively Before Ring Time??



## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

On another thread, someone had said their dog likes to get sleepy if they are just at the show hanging out and waiting for forever before they go into the ring. And Maddie is JUST like that! She gets all excited when we first get there, but then if we are waiting for forever, she gets sleepy on me. Even with warming her up!! How can I get her to get all peppy for me before we go into the ring?? Otherwise this leads to LOTS of lagging for her! And then I'm not happy with the performance!!!

Any suggestions?


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

Each dog is different, and you need to find what works for her. If keeping her in the crate doesn't work, how is she if you keep her out and engaged before going into the ring?

One of my dogs was at his best if left in the crate and ignored before we went in to compete (obedience), and another one was best if I took him out at least 30 minutes before our ring time and played with him a lot. Another one just needed to know that there were special treats and that she would get one once we were done.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Tally is a little like that too after a long afternoon. We have two pep-up games: "heeling into the party" and "choose to heel" that I learned at a workshop. 

Just toss a mid quality treat away from you saying find, and then dash away in an unexpected position. The instant you dog makes it back to heel position while you're in motion, deliver a super high quality "precious" treat . If I play that with Tally three or four times, he is invigorated. Then again though, he is really food -motivated and also likes the running around. 

The other game is similar- tossing the treat saying" find", but then, as the dog comes front when you call, you've recruited a couple people to throw a silly/fun-party with lots of "what a good dogs",petting, and treats. Tango, who is less food-motivated, loves this bc she is a social butterfly.


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## gabbys mom (Apr 23, 2008)

I have to have Gabby quiet up until close to the time we show. That depends on her mood and the show environment- it can involve her laying between my legs or in her crate. 

At that point, we do attention heeling, with lots of touches, jumping on me, etc.


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

It depends on the dog....and even then over the course of the dog's career it changes. What a dog needs for novice obedience is different than open obedience which is different than excellent agility, which is different than the breed ring, etc etc.

My Murphy tends to get bored with stuff - he has a limited amount of drive and desire to work - I try not to waste his drive on warm-up - in obedience AND in agility. Our warmup for both consists of some focused attention, stretching, hand touches, spins - getting connected. He doesn't come out of his crate until the dog ahead of us goes into the ring - maybe a bit sooner if the potty place isn't convenient...Go pee-pee and lets warm-up. I don't do a lot of heelwork before going into the obedience ring - but I would do a lot of his "Moonwalk" because he really LOVES that rally move. For agility I actually tend to do a lot of heeling games - it's what works for him. Murphy will sleep and actually rest in his crate at shows.

For Teller it's all about zen  This is especially true before the breed ring - he can get up and over the top amped. For obedience I'll bring him out earlier than Murphy - he'll have pottied way before. It starts with just getting into the ring atmosphere, some settle exercises ring-side, focus on me not the chaos around you. Then some stretches and then some heel and front games before obedience - some random drops...For agility it's some lunging each direction, stretching, figure-8's through my legs, some tune-ups on waits (leash tension), etc. For tracking it's walk up to the line and just chill - then the harness goes on and then he's off...Teller won't rest in his crate at shows - he'll be settled, but he is "on" the whole time he's in the building. On a busy day I'll try to leave him in the car as much as I can (safely) to keep him fresh and not over-stimulated (amp'ed).

You'll have to experiment with her as to what she needs...and once you "know" what she needs it'll change a little as she becomes more seasoned and you get better at reading her in the show situation....

Erica


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

Thanks guys for all the suggestions! A special thanks to Jill for that lovely game! I'll have to try it! She really enjoys the spins and twirls and backing up is her FAVORITE!!! I guess I'll have to experiment Friday and Saturday at the show to see how she does. Friday will be really quiet so it'll be good to see what we can warm up with! And thanks to Erica for the advice, I think Maddie is just like Murphy, once she no long has that drive anymore..it's adios to you! Hopefully I can keep the drive there this weekend!

As for agility with Maddie, the only agility show we went to was back in 2007, and there was no room left to crate...so we went and checked in and got my armband and talked to the trial chair and was told all the newby stuff, and we came in with a toy in hand and had my dad hang on to the toy...and went through the course and she didn't blow me off. So I think that's what we have to do as far as agility.

I just hope we do well at the shows!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

With Tito it's not so much that I need to get him pepped up (although you'll not meet a lazier dog), it's more that I need to get him focused on ME! I need to be silly, happy, let him know I have good stuff in store for him. I can even do it when he's in the crate, get him real revved to come out and play with me. Then he won't lag at all, it's all about ME!
I've tried all the other choices, including playing ball with him on a flexi right before ring time, warming him up, letting him sleep, etc. but for him this works the best. 
Lagging is almost always a lack of attention/focus, not of energy. If you were to suddenly throw her favorite toy, and she'd be right there after it, it tells you the problem isn't energy.


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

For agility Sammy and Barley stay in separate ex-pens and are usually asleep unless it is potty time/run time. I like that they are very relaxed in the trial environment. For Sammy this was natural, for Barley it took time and exposure for him to relax.

I take Sammy out maybe 4-6 dogs ahead of time and we work on games that require him to focus on me. We do happy heeling with spins. Ready, set... Give me five. We also do cookie stretches.

For Barley he is a bit of a silly boy before he runs. I stay back a bit from the ring and let him do what he wants. Which is usually tugging and rolling around on the ground. He enjoys acting like a goofball and gets serious once the leash come off in the ring, so I let him be. 

You may have to try some different things out to see what works.

Good luck at your show!!


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

sammydog said:


> For agility Sammy and Barley stay in separate ex-pens and are usually asleep unless it is potty time/run time. I like that they are very relaxed in the trial environment. For Sammy this was natural, for Barley it took time and exposure for him to relax.
> 
> I take Sammy out maybe 4-6 dogs ahead of time and we work on games that require him to focus on me. We do happy heeling with spins. Ready, set... Give me five. We also do cookie stretches.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks!! I have a feeling Friday will be good! It will be *hopefully* nice and quiet, since it's a small show and good weather! It's all indoors, but I have a feeling we might be by all the Conformation stuff going on, or we'll be on a carpeted area in the show hall. If Saturday has nice weather, well then it might be good for us! Thanks for all the tips guys, hopefully I'll try some of these things, and can hopefully get her to play before she goes into the ring. This also brings up another question of mine, at home Maddie will tug like crazy...and be all jazzed up, but then at class, a show or anything like that...she has NO interest. She just looks at me like "What...you want me to play??" Lately she has been kind of "ehh" about things, and no drive. I've been thinking maybe she needs some baby aspirin, because when she gets up from laying down it takes her awhile in the rear end part of her body to get up. She first started doing this when we first started agility class, and it was the night after it. We talked to the vet about it and she said that since it was "cold turkey", her muscles were sore. But now it takes her awhile than it normally does....does aspirin sound like a good idea? And she already gets Glucosamine and Chrodotrin (sp?).


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## Mighty Casey and Samson's Mom (Jul 16, 2008)

Casey is SO laid back at the best of times! I look with envy much of the time at people with such DRIVEN dogs---but then I see the other problems they have. The only place I ever lose points is on heeling--but lose them there he does, with his gazing about at the other rings, lagging and visiting stewards! He is best if we are showing as close to the start of the day as possible, after having about 30 minutes to get used to the setting. We constantly work on focus and heeling. He is perfect until we are being judged, and we go everywhere to practise!! He is only just 2, and has improved so much in the last 6 months. Hopefully it is a function of his age! Otherwise, we will continue to get Q's, but not the 190 plus scores.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

MaddieMagoo said:


> But now it takes her awhile than it normally does....does aspirin sound like a good idea? And she already gets Glucosamine and Chrodotrin (sp?).


NO! I wouldn't use asprin to potentially mask the symptom of an underlying problem. If you think she's in pain, and she's now in condition from doing agility on a regular basis, you need to find out what, if anything is going on with her.

BTW - lots of dogs don't tug away from home or their usual training site. Play skills around distractions and in different areas often have to be built over time.


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

MaddieMagoo said:


> I've been thinking maybe she needs some baby aspirin, because when she gets up from laying down it takes her awhile in the rear end part of her body to get up. She first started doing this when we first started agility class, and it was the night after it. We talked to the vet about it and she said that since it was "cold turkey", her muscles were sore. But now it takes her awhile than it normally does....does aspirin sound like a good idea? And she already gets Glucosamine and Chrodotrin (sp?).


I think that you mentioned in another post that she was heavier than she has been for agility - I'd certainly start there...In my opinion "agility weight" is slightly less than ideal weight. If she's heavier that's going to contribute to stiffness. Do you have a pre-agility/pre-obedience stretching routine? That might help.

If you're feeling like she's sore, the wrong thing to do is self medicate...you might talk to your vet about Adequan, acupuncture or some chiropractic. As for supplements our sports medicine vet recommends a certain level of glucosamine/Chondroitan but also MSM and Hyaluronic Acid. I also supplement (though not daily) with vitamin C and Vitamin E. Omega fatty acids are also important to overall joint and muscle health. I'm not advocating running out and buying a ton of bottles - it's important to look at the whole picture - and if you're seeing stiffness and/or soreness that starts with either a vet work-up or consult...

BTW: Knock 'em dead this week!

Erica


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

FlyingQuizini said:


> BTW - lots of dogs don't tug away from home or their usual training site. Play skills around distractions and in different areas often have to be built over time.


This is one of the things I start with puppies right off the bat.. They come to shows as tourists as soon as they come home - their job at trials is to meet people and TUG!!! 

Erica


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

MurphyTeller said:


> I think that you mentioned in another post that she was heavier than she has been for agility - I'd certainly start there...In my opinion "agility weight" is slightly less than ideal weight. If she's heavier that's going to contribute to stiffness. Do you have a pre-agility/pre-obedience stretching routine? That might help.
> 
> If you're feeling like she's sore, the wrong thing to do is self medicate...you might talk to your vet about Adequan, acupuncture or some chiropractic. As for supplements our sports medicine vet recommends a certain level of glucosamine/Chondroitan but also MSM and Hyaluronic Acid. I also supplement (though not daily) with vitamin C and Vitamin E. Omega fatty acids are also important to overall joint and muscle health. I'm not advocating running out and buying a ton of bottles - it's important to look at the whole picture - and if you're seeing stiffness and/or soreness that starts with either a vet work-up or consult...
> 
> ...


Ok thanks for the advice! Yeah we do have a pre-agility warm-up type of thing. I do some touches, ready get its, streching and some spins and twirls and maybe some tugging. And as for the puppies and tugging at shows, I wish she was like that. How did you encourage them to tug with sooo much going on? just lots of praise...and cookies when they show interest?? our mentor says to treat Maddie like a puppy, since we're starting over with training!

Thanks for all the help guys!

And thanks Erica, hopefully we'll knock em dead this weekend! =]


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

MaddieMagoo said:


> And as for the puppies and tugging at shows, I wish she was like that. How did you encourage them to tug with sooo much going on? just lots of praise...and cookies when they show interest?? our mentor says to treat Maddie like a puppy, since we're starting over with training!


There's a school of thought that tugging is the same reflex as nursing - so it starts with gently tugging with puppies - all tugging is at the level of the dog I'm playing with - obviously it is a different tug for a 8lb dog vs a 60lb dog. Find out what your dog/puppy really likes while tugging - some dogs like to be pushed gently away on their shoulders or butt, some like to be growled (Grrrr, Geeeeettttt it) at, Teller likes to be kicked - and no not really kicked in the abusive sense, but he likes tug best when I use my feet...touching my feet to his shoulders (see pushing on shoulders/butt from above). Find out what makes the game over the top fun. If she's not a confident tugger I'd not start at shows - I'd start someplace that she feels the absolute safest - maybe at home, maybe even inside - get her really amp'ed to play the game - then move to progressively more difficult places to confidently tug. She likely is a dog that feels some pressure from other dogs or other people - don't force the issue - you might get to being able to tug in the parking lot - but you'll never get her to tug ringside at an agility trial - that's who she is. You also have to be very aware of the dogs and people around you - if another dog gets to her while she's tugging confidently (and gets to her even in a "hey whatcha doin' kind of way) that might errode her confidence that you've built up...

The other thing is that your instructor told you to treat her as if she was a puppy - going back to square one on somethings. That's not a bad piece of advice and it's not incorrect. But that training philosophy doesn't work for every behavior - dogs like humans have baggage (good and bad baggage) that can't always be undone. If she's a dog that feels pressure now you might be able to reduce her pressure bubble - but you'll probably never eliminate it - it's who she is (and probably who she was as a puppy). My Murphy has a pressure bubble - one of the hardest things for him is jumping towards other dogs or into people - so we set him up where he's jumping into a small friendly (seated) crowd at varying distances and then into non reactive dis-interested dogs - his comfort bubble is now down to about 10-15 feet - a marked improvement - but it took us 4+ years to get there. My Teller feels no such pressure...different strokes 

Erica


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## gabbys mom (Apr 23, 2008)

You've brought up your concern for her hips a number of times. If you are actually concerned about her hips, etc, you should get her x-rayed and submit the x-rays to OFA. 

It would be devastating to be forcing her to run in agility and obedience and then find out several years later that she had HD or degenerative arthritis in her hips. My performance dogs get OFA'd before beginning agility- it is an incredibly demanding sport. 

As for tugging, check out clean run's online store. They have tug toys that dispense treats by tugging.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

MurphyTeller said:


> This is one of the things I start with puppies right off the bat.. They come to shows as tourists as soon as they come home - their job at trials is to meet people and TUG!!!
> 
> Erica


Me too! In fact, when I went to pick up Quiz at the airport, I brought a little fleecy tug toy and we played our first game of tug in the parking lot of LAX!


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

I'd get a tennis ball on a rope to start with.... and add an extra 6 feet of rope to the handle of the toy. Then try playing with her like it's a giant cat toy. Sometimes, getting out body language out of the picture helps a lot, and when we're using a toy that's 6 feet long, it allows us to be out of the dog's way when she first starts to play in public. As she gets better at it, shorten the length of rope until the original toy handle is back in your hand.


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## gabbys mom (Apr 23, 2008)

MurphyTeller said:


> This is one of the things I start with puppies right off the bat.. They come to shows as tourists as soon as they come home - their job at trials is to meet people and TUG!!!
> 
> Erica


So, here's my question: how do you weigh possible parvo/infection risks with the great socialization/"tourism" experience of going to a show at 9-12 weeks? 

I have a pup on the way and I'd like to do that with him, but I obviously want to minimize his exposure to infection risks.


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

As far as trouble getting up... I would have an x-ray done before I do any more agility training. Hopefully she is just sore, but better safe than sorry!

For tugging try starting in different places that are not as stimulating as a trial. Like in your front yard. You want to build up to where you can tug anywhere! It's a GREAT motivator... I also like the idea of a tennis ball tug. If she is wild about tennis balls, this may be the ticket!


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

gabbys mom said:


> So, here's my question: how do you weigh possible parvo/infection risks with the great socialization/"tourism" experience of going to a show at 9-12 weeks?
> 
> I have a pup on the way and I'd like to do that with him, but I obviously want to minimize his exposure to infection risks.


Well...it's a calculated risk...but I think the risk of parvo/kennel cough/distemper less than the risk of not getting puppies out and socialized - especially with up and coming performance and show dogs - they've got to learn that packing up and going to shows just happens - it's no big deal and it's pretty fun  That being said, I did lose a golden puppy to parvo many moons ago (not contracted at a show - this was WAY before my dog show days) but I'm certainly sensitive to the risk.

I'm careful where they potty and I don't allow him to be greeted by other dogs - but that is true for any puppy being greeted by any dog I don't know - and extends to any of my dogs greeting dogs I don't know (even as adults)...In indoor trials I don't have them walking around on the ground until they're older and fully vaccinated - but I do hand them off to people and allow strangers to pat them...At outdoor agility trials in the Northeast there's a lot of space - usually two ring trials with tents all around - I don't intrude on anyone else's space but from my tent we're usually 10-15' from the ring gating.

When they get older they get to "work" as we move around the building or grounds - it's learning to be around other dogs without obsessing about other dogs or feeling the need to play with or greet every dog, child or person they see walk by them...

Erica


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

Ok...so I think I can try to remember what everyone said and comment on them! 

As far as "training her as a puppy", yes Erica it is a good philosophy because she never was really trained good. So with new methods, in some cases, yes treat her as a puppy, like attention heeling and the dumbbell. Most things had to go back to square one, and others didn't. So the things that she already knew didn't necessarily have to go back that far, and yes I agree with you that not EVERYTHING has to be treated like a puppy, at age 5 she should know most things, right from wrong. 

And Stephanie- about the tennis ball idea, that is a great one! She is soooo wild about them, that when she was a puppy we had to take them away from her because she would literally tear them apart! She'd rip off all the stuffing and then eat it and throw up from it then, that sure wasn't fun! 

I think you're right, with small increments of where we playing tug or just do any type of play in places she does and doesn't know will help her and who knows...maybe even at a trial. If we can get her confidence up! I think that has to do with the past, with our old trainer that we NEVER played...it was just voice praise and treats. With the new way, as I like to call it, she can play, play, play!!! So I'm thinking that maybe she doesn't want to get yelled at or anything, and still thinks that playing is a crime! Although I have never yelled at her for playing....so who knows!


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## katieanddusty (Feb 9, 2006)

Aww, I know how that goes. You get them out of the crate and they're all bouncy ready to go, but by the time it's your turn, your dog is gone.

DON'T pressure her to tug in a trial environment before you compete. You're not there to have a dog tugging outside the ring, you're there to have a comfortable and happy dog (and a calm and happy you!) inside the ring. If after you compete and she's cooled down and had a nap and everything, she still has enough energy to try some tugging before you go home, then you can try it. But your warm-up routine should not include pressuring her to tug. It's not worth it. Work on it in other situations if you think it's vital to your warm-up. (I don't, as long as you have some game to play that keeps her happy, whether it's barking and spinning or tugging or whatever. Tugging is popular with a lot of BCs and most agility people these days are BC people who've completely forgotten what their first dog taught them, or are training with said people and aren't getting as much out of their dogs as they could). But don't bring it to the trial environment, particularly before you run, until you're absolutely confident that she'll tug happily.

After a while of a certain type of training, the dog starts to think that there's a very short list of things they should do and everything else is a crime. So I know you've never yelled at her for playing, but the "old way" also didn't foster the kind of drive and initiative you're now looking for. It might take a while, and she might be pretty confused for a while. I personally don't care whether she learns to love tugging next to the ring. Neither of my dogs do (one doesn't want to and one is worked-up enough already). For some dogs the trial environment adds pressure and tugging helps release it. For Dusty, and at this point for Maddie, some crazy person bouncing around trying to get them to tug is just another source of pressure. Is there anything that involves interaction with you and some moving around that she really enjoys? (please don't say anything about "motivational collar pops," that's not it).

Especially since she's had some soreness issues in the past, you just have to be careful balancing the amount of time it takes to warm up physically with the amount of time you have before you lose her mentally. There's a guy around here who with his older dog (who's in excellent shape and I'm assuming has never had any health issues) will literally run her from the crate into the ring while the gate steward throws a hissy fit and the rest of us try to convince her that it's just what he does and he will get there on time (I don't recommend that, but he knows his dog and I guess is willing to deal with the wrath of gate stewards).

I usually take Dusty out, potty him, jog around for a while depending on how hot it is (without asking anything of him this whole time, no attention or chasing anything or anything like that, he honestly doesn't even have a named loose-leash walking behavior because he doesn't pull enough to bother me). Then three dogs before our run at the most we go to the warm-up jump, and for the last couple of dogs we do tricks I know he likes, spinning and barking. If there's a hose nearby and it's really hot I wet his belly right after the potty (which he tolerates because he knows it cools him off - if it bothered him I wouldn't do it). And if I didn't time it right and we're done jogging but it's not jump time yet, then I take him to my mom or someone and let him visit with them until it's time for the warm-up jump. Which would be risky if I didn't know I'll have his attention completely once we go into the ring, but it keeps him happy and somewhat active without tiring him out. After a while you start to figure out what works and what doesn't. The important part is that you read your dog and respond to her rather than just acting based on what other people do and wondering why she isn't doing what she's "supposed to."

Good luck this weekend!


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## hawtee (Nov 1, 2006)

My normal warm up routine..I hide treats around the arena that way Lilli never knows where and when they are coming and what I will ask of her, it's a little game we play..I get her out stretch her, go outside and potty come back in and do twists, stops on the stairs (contact training and a reminder for her) tugs, climb the wall (stretch up the wall)
then head to the practice jump, doing breaks (start line) and checks (quick turn back to me) tug to the line area and then I get her to focus on me by sitting or downing about 4 dogs in, she focus's on me and I treat her..get thru running fine treats on the way out and her bumper, go outside and play bumper til cooled down (her reward) and slowly back into the crate til next time. Since I usually work the trial someone else gets her out to walk er around..but this is a high spirited girl and if I don't do this she is wired for the run and makes her own courses


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Tomorrow, I have to meet and greet at an APDT Rally fun match and be the "gate steward', but also run Tally twice in the level II's. I am nervous about how to work with this split situtation,]. I dont really want to crate him at Happy Tails, but I can't really see keeping him with me the whole morning. . . .hmmmm.


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