# Help with Dog Foods



## Alexis47 (Dec 6, 2015)

Our healthy 4 year old Golden has been on Gentle Giant Dry Chicken dog food for a couple of years but recently has developed very loose, unformed stools. After antibiotics and Pro Biotics and a gradual change of dog food to Royal Canin Fiber Response, his stools firmed up but due to the high fiber content in the food, stools are excessive. We welcome any suggestions for a dog food that creates less stool while still firm but are not interested in a Grain Free or Raw diet due to the DCM issues? Also, prefer to stay away from fish based foods as I''m allegric to that. My breeder feeds Eukunuba Large Breed but there is is a lot of filler in there such as corn, wheat, gluten and chicken by products. Noticed the same ingredients are in Purina Pro Plan (another food recommended for firming stools) so obviously prefer not to go there. Additionally, I noticed that the highly rated top dog foods are expensive e.g. Stella's, Honest Kitchen and so on, kind of makes you wonder if these companies are sponsoring the dog food article. Thank you for any and all suggestions!


----------



## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

My bridge girl and my current boy both had/have Sensitive Stomach, per members recommendations, I tried the Purina Pro Plan for Sensitive Skin and Stomach, the Salmon formula. That was nine years ago and my guy is doing very well on it. My girl did too when she was alive. 

However, not all dogs will. Food that works for one dog may not work for another dog, so keep that in mind.

I also only give Salmon treats, some fresh fruits and veggies. If I give another protein source, my boy has loose stools.

The PPP SSS does not contain wheat, corn or soy. It does have rice and oatmeal.


----------



## jeffscott947 (Jun 9, 2019)

Alexis47 said:


> Our healthy 4 year old Golden has been on Gentle Giant Dry Chicken dog food for a couple of years but recently has developed very loose, unformed stools. After antibiotics and Pro Biotics and a gradual change of dog food to Royal Canin Fiber Response, his stools firmed up but due to the high fiber content in the food, stools are excessive. We welcome any suggestions for a dog food that creates less stool while still firm but are not interested in a Grain Free or Raw diet due to the DCM issues? Also, prefer to stay away from fish based foods as I''m allegric to that. My breeder feeds Eukunuba Large Breed but there is is a lot of filler in there such as corn, wheat, gluten and chicken by products. Noticed the same ingredients are in Purina Pro Plan (another food recommended for firming stools) so obviously prefer not to go there. Additionally, I noticed that the highly rated top dog foods are expensive e.g. Stella's, Honest Kitchen and so on, kind of makes you wonder if these companies are sponsoring the dog food article. Thank you for any and all suggestions!


Sometimes it helps to know exactly who makes what in the dog food world..And how many garbage foods they make as well, prior to making a decision.


----------



## GoldenDude (Nov 5, 2016)

I use Eukanuba large breed for all my dogs since I'm required to use it for one of them. (My Clumber is the only exception. She gets a prescription food that contains rabbit as the protein since she has both food and environmental allergies.) Prior to the requirement to use Eukanuba for one of them, I used Purina Pro Plan and was quite happy with it. It's too inconvenient to have three dog foods so I switched the others to Eukanuba so that I only have two dog foods in the house.


----------



## Alexis47 (Dec 6, 2015)

GoldenDude said:


> I use Eukanuba large breed for all my dogs since I'm required to use it for one of them. (My Clumber is the only exception. She gets a prescription food that contains rabbit as the protein since she has both food and environmental allergies.) Prior to the requirement to use Eukanuba for one of them, I used Purina Pro Plan and was quite happy with it. It's too inconvenient to have three dog foods so I switched the others to Eukanuba so that I only have two dog foods in the house.


 Thank you for your response, sadly blood test results just came back and he's been diagnosed with EPI - Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency. We are obviously devastated, found out too that the digestive supplement from the vet is highly costly. Currently going to try him on Pan-tenex as it's half the cost and made in Germany not China. If anyone has had success using Pan-tenex on their Goldens, I would love to hear about it. Thank you to all those who replied to my original post and I hope you don't mind that I posted my thank you's to all of you under this one reply.


----------



## Alexis47 (Dec 6, 2015)

jeffscott947 said:


> Sometimes it helps to know exactly who makes what in the dog food world..And how many garbage foods they make as well, prior to making a decision.
> 
> View attachment 870410


Had know idea these dog foods were so interconnected with one company. Funny thing is the dog food my guy was on is not on this chart as it's by Robin Ward. Hoping our Golden can go back to his original dog food once the digestive supplement begins to work on him but thank you for the chart.


----------



## Alexis47 (Dec 6, 2015)

CAROLINA MOM said:


> My bridge girl and my current boy both had/have Sensitive Stomach, per members recommendations, I tried the Purina Pro Plan for Sensitive Skin and Stomach, the Salmon formula. That was nine years ago and my guy is doing very well on it. My girl did too when she was alive.
> 
> However, not all dogs will. Food that works for one dog may not work for another dog, so keep that in mind.
> 
> ...


Thank you Carolina Mom but as I mentioned in my post any dog food with fish in it wouldn't work as I'm highly allergic to any and all fish. Glad your dogs do well with it though.


----------



## GoldenDude (Nov 5, 2016)

Alexis47 said:


> Thank you for your response, sadly blood test results just came back and he's been diagnosed with EPI - Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency. We are obviously devastated, found out too that the digestive supplement from the vet is highly costly. Currently going to try him on Pan-tenex as it's half the cost and made in Germany not China. If anyone has had success using Pan-tenex on their Goldens, I would love to hear about it. Thank you to all those who replied to my original post and I hope you don't mind that I posted my thank you's to all of you under this one reply.


I'm not familiar with EPI. I hope your boy is ok and that it's a condition that can be managed.


----------



## jeffscott947 (Jun 9, 2019)

Alexis47 said:


> Our healthy 4 year old Golden has been on Gentle Giant Dry Chicken dog food for a couple of years but recently has developed very loose, unformed stools. After antibiotics and Pro Biotics and a gradual change of dog food to Royal Canin Fiber Response, his stools firmed up but due to the high fiber content in the food, stools are excessive. We welcome any suggestions for a dog food that creates less stool while still firm but are not interested in a Grain Free or Raw diet due to the DCM issues? Also, prefer to stay away from fish based foods as I''m allegric to that. My breeder feeds Eukunuba Large Breed but there is is a lot of filler in there such as corn, wheat, gluten and chicken by products. Noticed the same ingredients are in Purina Pro Plan (another food recommended for firming stools) so obviously prefer not to go there. Additionally, I noticed that the highly rated top dog foods are expensive e.g. Stella's, Honest Kitchen and so on, kind of makes you wonder if these companies are sponsoring the dog food article. Thank you for any and all suggestions!


I suggest contacting each company that you might have interest in, and ask some VERY pointed questions as to sourcing and what % of the protein is derived from what, etc.(they usually have a contact button below on the 1st page of their sites).
I have a friend that contacted both Acana and Purina. Acana seemed to answer directly, while Purina simply skirted the pertinent issues with diversions where they either had no information, or didn't wish to part with the same. *Beware of corporate doublespeak like "trusted sources from around the world" which equates to the CHEAPEST.*

These convos were questioned here as to their voracity, and I always recommend checking for one's self. I make no bones..I am anti Purina! (needless to say..they never got back to her).










=====================================================================================
"


Hi - with all this DCM in dogs issue hitting the airwaves, and grain free foods and 'legumes' being singled out as a potential factor, I was wondering if it is safe to feed my golden retriever a food such as Beyond Natural Hake&Lentil?
As a leader in pet nutrition, the health and safety of pets have been our priority for nearly a century. Our dog food formulations, including those that are grain free, are always complete and balanced.


So you are telling me that this food is safe to feed, safer than foods made by other companies who include legumes in their diets? My dog is not going to get DCM from eating this food?
We have not been contacted by the FDA regarding any cases involving our products. The ingredients referenced in the FDA communication are not typically main ingredients in the vast majority of Purina products. All Purina pet foods, including those that contain [peas, lentils, potatoes, legumes], are formulated to be complete and balanced for a pet’s life stage, and every ingredient plays a role in delivering the nutrients dogs and cats need to thrive.


what role do legumes play in nutrition for a carnivore - aren't they used to boost crude protein percentages as a substitute for meat? May I ask what the meat protein content is in this food?
What makes Purina's grain free safer to feed than a grain free made by a smaller pet food maker?


Purina diets meet the World Small Animal Veterinary Association (WSAVA) guidelines as well as those of the Association of American Feed Control Officials (AAFCO). When Purina nutritionists formulate food, they start with the nutrients pets need and then use the best ingredients to fit those nutritional needs.


legumes produce iron nutrient necessary for the production of oxygen-carrying hemoglobin (red blood cells)


Can you tell me how much of the crude protein is from meat in this food.

Crude protein from this food is 31% as fed and 34.2% dry matter


Not what I asked. I asked how much of the crude protein is from meat vs. plant sources Ie: legumes
I believe this information will be emailed to you, as the information you need is currently not available, and we will need assistance from other department.


So, is it safer for me to feed this food vs one made by another company who also follows the AAFCO guidelines? Is this one better than the rest?


You can trust that Purina food is safe to feed for your pets. We have a team of more than 500 nutritionists, veterinarians, behaviorists and researchers around the world. We also conduct studies to ensure the digestibility of our products, meaning that a pet can access the nutrients it requires from the food to support its metabolic energy needs.


Is this fish tested for toxins such as mercury?

As part of our comprehensive food safety and ingredient surveillance programs, we do test for well over 150 substances — including mercury.


From what I have read one should not feed a food that has legumes within the first 5 ingredients - not to mention ingredient splitting peas starch, lentils, pea protein, pea fiber - so how in the world is this food any better than any other with a similar ingredient list?
I understand how this could create questions. You can remain confident about feeding our product because all of our pet foods are formulated to be complete and balanced for a pet’s specific life stage, and every quality ingredient including pea, lentil, potato, legume, plays a role in delivering the nutrients dogs and cats need to thrive. Additionally, as a leader in pet nutrition, we are taking a proactive approach by adding supplementary taurine, which is supportive to heart health, to our grain-free dry dog foods and other diets that have a similar ingredient profile.


If you still have questions about canine heart disease (DCM) or the food you are feeding your dog, we recommend speaking with your trusted veterinarian.

===================================================================
As opposed to THIS from Acana (I am NOT recommending Acana, or anything else, but at least they answered they answered her questions, nothing more, and nothing LESS!)
==================================================================================
"
Our ACANA diets are formulated by our Research & Innovation team to be compliant with FEDIAF nutritional guidelines for dogs and cats. When formulating our diets the goal is to make them as Biologically Appropriate as possible. The main ingredient in our ACANA diets is meat. The meat content in ACANA ranges from 50%-75% meat ingredients and at least 1/3 of that meat arrives to us fresh or raw.

Our ACANA Regionals have a legume content that is less than 24% with an average content of 20%. The carbohydrate content in the Ranchlands is 25%."


----------



## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Just an aside, most dogs with EPI have B12 deficiency, you should talk to your vet about supplementation with subcutaneous B12 injections. You can do them yourself at home, and it's very inexpensive. It can make a huge difference in their quality of life.


----------



## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

Alexis47 said:


> Our healthy 4 year old Golden has been on Gentle Giant Dry Chicken dog food for a couple of years but recently has developed very loose, unformed stools. After antibiotics and Pro Biotics and a gradual change of dog food to Royal Canin Fiber Response, his stools firmed up but due to the high fiber content in the food, stools are excessive. We welcome any suggestions for a dog food that creates less stool while still firm but are not interested in a Grain Free or Raw diet due to the DCM issues? Also, prefer to stay away from fish based foods as I''m allegric to that. My breeder feeds Eukunuba Large Breed but there is is a lot of filler in there such as corn, wheat, gluten and chicken by products. Noticed the same ingredients are in Purina Pro Plan (another food recommended for firming stools) so obviously prefer not to go there. Additionally, I noticed that the highly rated top dog foods are expensive e.g. Stella's, Honest Kitchen and so on, kind of makes you wonder if these companies are sponsoring the dog food article. Thank you for any and all suggestions!


The definition of filler is an ingredient with no nutritional value. What you stated are not fillers. Also Raw food that isn't low on meat and not containing legumes aren't an issue with DCM. 

The food I use is called Nature's Variety, their Be Natural line, not the grain free instinct line, very high quality. I also use thier raw food. It's also designed to rotate the formulas so you wont get digestive upsets and keeps them interested in teh food while also helping them develop sensitivities to the proteins.


----------



## Tagrenine (Aug 20, 2019)

Alexis47 said:


> Our healthy 4 year old Golden has been on Gentle Giant Dry Chicken dog food for a couple of years but recently has developed very loose, unformed stools. After antibiotics and Pro Biotics and a gradual change of dog food to Royal Canin Fiber Response, his stools firmed up but due to the high fiber content in the food, stools are excessive. We welcome any suggestions for a dog food that creates less stool while still firm but are not interested in a Grain Free or Raw diet due to the DCM issues? Also, prefer to stay away from fish based foods as I''m allegric to that. My breeder feeds Eukunuba Large Breed but there is is a lot of filler in there such as corn, wheat, gluten and chicken by products. Noticed the same ingredients are in Purina Pro Plan (another food recommended for firming stools) so obviously prefer not to go there. Additionally, I noticed that the highly rated top dog foods are expensive e.g. Stella's, Honest Kitchen and so on, kind of makes you wonder if these companies are sponsoring the dog food article. Thank you for any and all suggestions!


Hi Alexis! Without delving too much into the intricacies of canine nutrition (my father is a veterinarian, I'm in a master's program in biomedical science, and experience feeding many different foods) I decided to stop doing excessive research. I've fed what I thought was balanced raw, I've fed high end grain free before the FDA report, and now we feed Purina Pro Plan to every dog we own. My working dogs eat 30/20 and our Golden Retriever puppy eats Savor. My breeder could not stress enough to me how important it was to feed an appropriate dog food and included several pages in our puppy packet that you may find helpful. Most of this information is also available online. I do not want you to feel limited to the brands discussed here, but to use this information in your search for a dog food that works for your dog


----------



## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

With a dog diagnosed with EPI, you need to work with a good veterinarian about food. It's not the same discussion as just advice on common dog foods.


----------



## jeffscott947 (Jun 9, 2019)

There are so many place to get information these days. (INCLUDING the Dentist's site which tries to help owners understand the nonsense, with a plain explanation) and choose for themselves.
IMO, his opinions are as good if not better, than any other people on the web.

The best place for anyone to start is by contacting each company and engage them in a chat, (usually at the bottom of their page(s) asking any questions that come to mind, regarding sourcing, Protein content and it's makeup, etc.

Evasiveness should be dealt with accordingly, by ANY of them.. well thought of or not.
Mystery ingredients, sourced from trusted sources around the world, etc are not what I would consider to be honest answers, and are a smokescreen.

If company pet nutritionists were able to influence a company (over the bean counters).....there would be many less poor quality pet foods sold to unsuspecting owners.


----------



## aesthetic (Apr 23, 2015)

I have a friend whose almost 2 year old border collie has EPI. She gives her dog raw pancreas (for the digestive enzymes) instead of the 8 pills per meal. Her girl is doing really well on it. Obviously, I'm not a vet and have no other personal experience with EPI - maybe talk to your vet about using raw pancreas as an alternative?


----------

