# how do you build muscle?



## Ffcmm (May 4, 2016)

Is muscle mass determined by genetics? My Lily who has an unknown background is very 'soft' in comparison to my boy, and she doesn't have the same muscle tone. They both get weekly swims, go on the same walks, get the same off leash time, but she just isn't as 'fit' as him. 

I started thinking about this because people have always remarked that Monty is really muscular. Pet people. On the other end of the spectrum, others in my handling class mentioned that I should run him on a bike to build even more muscle and teach him to run at pace (granted they own whippets that are really really muscular and run 3-4 miles on alternate days and have weighted vests). He's only a puppy so that isn't something I'm comfortable with doing yet. 

How do you condition your dogs and build muscle naturally? is this even something I need to think about now as he is still only an 8+ month old puppy, or is it good to start now? 









(not stacked, he was just standing and looking at lily so i snapped this pic) 










he's not as muscular as some field goldens i've seen but he is more muscular than my girl for sure. 

I'd love to see pictures of your muscular goldens and their workout routines


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## DblTrblGolden2 (Aug 22, 2018)

I have to say both of your dogs are beautiful. I'm wondering how substantial the difference is between male and female?? When Moe was 8 months to about 15 months we regularly visited a Veterinary Orthopedic Sports Medicine Specialist. They would measure muscle mass at each visit. Moe is not what I consider a muscled up Golden but it was interesting to watch the measurements of each body part change. The healthier he got to be the more we increased his rehab program and the more muscle mass he built. They did it by literally measuring him and then recorded it in percentages of increase. 

He was just with a pro trainer and I am currently trying to put some weight back on him. He is a very, very lean muscle machine currently but not the type I see in some dogs and think WOW. He's field bred so long, tall, and lean but boy is he fast. He dropped 8 lbs in just a few weeks and he was only 62 lbs when we sent him. They fed him well he was just running and swimming a ton every day. 

I'm interested in what others think about male vs. female. I have no idea because I only ever own intact males. That also brings another question to mind, how much does spay/neuter affect muscle mass? Does it? (I'm assuming it does)


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## Ffcmm (May 4, 2016)

DblTrblGolden2 said:


> I have to say both of your dogs are beautiful. I'm wondering how substantial the difference is between male and female?? When Moe was 8 months to about 15 months we regularly visited a Veterinary Orthopedic Sports Medicine Specialist. They would measure muscle mass at each visit. Moe is not what I consider a muscled up Golden but it was interesting to watch the measurements of each body part change. The healthier he got to be the more we increased his rehab program and the more muscle mass he built. They did it by literally measuring him and then recorded it in percentages of increase.
> 
> He was just with a pro trainer and I am currently trying to put some weight back on him. He is a very, very lean muscle machine currently but not the type I see in some dogs and think WOW. He's field bred so long, tall, and lean but boy is he fast. He dropped 8 lbs in just a few weeks and he was only 62 lbs when we sent him. They fed him well he was just running and swimming a ton every day.
> 
> I'm interested in what others think about male vs. female. I have no idea because I only ever own intact males. That also brings another question to mind, how much does spay/neuter affect muscle mass? Does it? (I'm assuming it does)


oh sorry for the confusion, the pictures I posted above were both of the same dog, my male. here is my girl. she really lacks muscles tone ): now that you mentioned it.. yes im curious is spaying & gender makes a difference too? she is spayed and 5 years old already ( but still very active!)

Here are some pics of her moving, you can see that her muscles don't 'pop' out compared to my boy. for my boy even when he is standing normally I can see his muscles and they are rock solid when i feel his legs etc. her's are really soft and squishy, just untoned in general. 























(one funny picture of her because she looks so happy)

How did you build muscle mass on Moe?


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

A male to female weight difference if in standard can be from 55-75lbs so 20lbs. The majority of the weight difference is the amount of bone a similar size male would have over a female. Males will also generally have a higher amount of muscle mass, that holds true for most species including people, but again the majority of the weight difference will be the bone mass/density. They also have more bone as they are usually taller.

8 months is really to young to be exercising enough to be trying to add muscle. The joints shouldn't be taking on the added stress until 18 months or older. Muscle will come with maturity overall. Like looking at an 18 year old and then the same guy at 28, they may be the same weight but they aren't going to look the same.

Lily looks like maybe she has a few extra pounds. Slow her intake down and let her lean out some.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

Anney? @K9-Design


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## Ffcmm (May 4, 2016)

Maggie'sVoice said:


> A male to female weight difference if in standard can be from 55-75lbs so 20lbs. The majority of the weight difference is the amount of bone a similar size male would have over a female. Males will also generally have a higher amount of muscle mass, that holds true for most species including people, but again the majority of the weight difference will be the bone mass/density. They also have more bone as they are usually taller.
> 
> 8 months is really to young to be exercising enough to be trying to add muscle. The joints shouldn't be taking in the added stress until 18 months or older. Muscle will come with maturity overall. Like looking at an 18 year old and then the same guy at 28, they may be the same weight but they aren't going to look the same.
> 
> Lily looks fine. She's lean and I can see muscle definition through her coat, similar to my Maggie. Honestly she looks ideal to me, lean, not skinny and I can see her muscle definition. I wouldn't worry about her at all. I'm assuming Lily is the 8 month old and she had a lot of time to fill out.


I agree I think 8 months is still too young to do anything at all so it was surprising to hear those in the show ring asking me to start building his muscles. I Guess what you describe is ‘filling out’! 

(Lily is the lighter one, she is 5 years), Monty is the darker on in the 1st post  

ps she is very lean actually it’s mostly her fur making her look tubby. I can feel all of her ribs easily, shes around 52lbs.

Here’s a better picture


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## DblTrblGolden2 (Aug 22, 2018)

Ffcmm said:


> How did you build muscle mass on Moe?


So with Moe it was interesting to watch. He went from 6 weeks of crate rest at 8-9 months to being allowed only leash walks 10 minutes at a time and swimming to increasing the leash walks gradually to 45 minutes 4 times a day. We in steps added in climbing steps, tight circles in both directions, walking backwards, up and down inclines, jogging on soft surfaces, to eventually running at a controlled pace on a soft surface and then eventually letting him just be a dog. Our final step was going back to allowing him to retrieve and run drills again. They documented the muscle mass development at each visit. 

Prior to the issue with his feet becoming known he was quite the athletic little handful. It was just interesting to watch the specialists document each step of muscle development. We also got to watch his weight distribution during walking, jogging, running in a gait lab that showed exact percentages for each foot. It was very interesting. 

Moe is a great swimmer and I attribute it to the amount of time we spent allowing him to swim and burn off energy when it was his only safe activity.


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## Tagrenine (Aug 20, 2019)

Muscles is predominantly the realm of genetics. You can adjust diet some to drop body fat and increase working, but general muscle "bulk" tends to be the realm of genetics. A good example would be the flat muscles of some of the racing sighthound and the bulkier muscles of other hounds, like the Greyhound. Or comparing the bully breeds with many other breeds, they grow up looking like they bench 200lbs a day and most hardly do anything.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Girl, there's this hormone called testosterone, it makes boys big and strong


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

K9-Design said:


> Girl, there's this hormone called testosterone, it makes boys big and strong


I was literally just thinking the same thing. 

Once the hormones check in, seems the dogs start really filling out.


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## Ffcmm (May 4, 2016)

K9-Design said:


> Girl, there's this hormone called testosterone, it makes boys big and strong


this made my laugh out loud! 
My brothers intact 2 year old golden is as ‘soft’ as my girl though.


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## Ffcmm (May 4, 2016)

Megora said:


> I was literally just thinking the same thing.
> 
> Once the hormones check in, seems the dogs start really filling out.


Do you do any particular exercise to keep your trio in shape? Eg: threadmill etc?


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## Ffcmm (May 4, 2016)

DblTrblGolden2 said:


> So with Moe it was interesting to watch. He went from 6 weeks of crate rest at 8-9 months to being allowed only leash walks 10 minutes at a time and swimming to increasing the leash walks gradually to 45 minutes 4 times a day. We in steps added in climbing steps, tight circles in both directions, walking backwards, up and down inclines, jogging on soft surfaces, to eventually running at a controlled pace on a soft surface and then eventually letting him just be a dog. Our final step was going back to allowing him to retrieve and run drills again. They documented the muscle mass development at each visit.
> 
> Prior to the issue with his feet becoming known he was quite the athletic little handful. It was just interesting to watch the specialists document each step of muscle development. We also got to watch his weight distribution during walking, jogging, running in a gait lab that showed exact percentages for each foot. It was very interesting.
> 
> Moe is a great swimmer and I attribute it to the amount of time we spent allowing him to swim and burn off energy when it was his only safe activity.


That is really interesting! Plus the fact that they did measure him so you actually know it’s working as well, the exercise sound simple enough too.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

If you’re wanting to know how to build muscle in your girl, there are things you can do to tone, but she won’t ever have bulk like your boy will. For Eevee, we play fetch several time a day until she gets tired since she’s young and self limits pretty well.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Ffcmm said:


> Do you do any particular exercise to keep your trio in shape? Eg: treadmill etc?


I've seen videos of people using treadmills and unless it's a water treadmill (which a lot of show people use and the dogs seem to be OK with), I can't imagine doing that to the dogs. >.< 

With my Bertie - his breeder and others recommended doing roadwork with him. This was not about building muscle, but training him to trot consistently and drive forward smoothly. 

He had a pacing habit + had an ugly trot (pulling/lunging forward). 

Stopping that meant trotting him up and down our street at home. And then at home before taking him into the ring, I'd take him outside and jog with him get him warmed up and ready so he wouldn't be a rocket out there in the ring. 

As far as muscles go, I think the dogs develop them thanks to the hormones, exercise, and diet. 

With mine.... I let them be dogs. 

With the young guys they are so active and high energy naturally - let them run loose, let them swim, take them for off leash hikes, take them for regular walks.... even weeks like we have had with temps up in the mid to upper 90's and high humidity, I might not take them out for walks or hikes for my own sake (LOL), but they are running full blast for 5-10 minutes playing chase with each other several times a day. 

If you are feeding a good diet, genetics are there, and giving him plenty of free exercise - I think by the time your dog is about 15-18 months old, you should have a better idea as far as how he's filling out. 

My 8 year old - like most middle aged to pre-senior dogs (and people!) weighs about 5 extra pounds (he's 76 pounds right now, ideally he should be 68-72 pounds tops)... if I were still showing him, I'd probably be doing weekly hydrotherapy (water treadmill) and daily 1/2 mile jogs with him to get him back into shape.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

This is a pretty typical thing several times a day. Lot of running and jumping and wrestling, all 3 of them. Healthy for them + it's buffing them up.


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## themissingpen (Jul 8, 2020)

Pulled from this article on show dogs:

“We’ve been doing about an hour a day on the treadmill,” she said, saying that she tries to vary it so Jemma doesn’t get too bored. “We’ll take the incline up to 10-12 percent and cut the speed down to one so that you’re doing it, it’s really locking in those muscles in order to build better tone. And then we’ll drop it down to 1 percent and go at 3.5 miles per hour and then we’ll put it at a negative 3 percent and slow it back down again just in order to get those muscles structured.”

Tiffany said that because the American Shepherd is a herding breed, they’re judged based on the quality of their movement, how well they reach and drive.

“When the judge put their hands on them on the table, if they’re a soft, sloppy dog, it’s not as impressive as putting your hands on a well-built specimen.”

At the other end of the pier, I discovered another way the dogs stay in shape: step aerobics. Actually, not quite that. One of the vendors at the show was selling multi-colored stackable platforms. A video running in the background showed the various ways that you could use them in order to strengthen your dog’s core, as well as tone and lengthen its muscles.

“That really is the gold standard for the table training,” Tiffany later told me. “A lot of different muscle strengthening and body awareness training with the dogs with that [item].” She purchased one to help with Jemma’s training for the future. She’s a young dog, at just two years old. She’ll be showing for years to come.


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## Ffcmm (May 4, 2016)

ArkansasGold said:


> If you’re wanting to know how to build muscle in your girl, there are things you can do to tone, but she won’t ever have bulk like your boy will. For Eevee, we play fetch several time a day until she gets tired since she’s young and self limits pretty well.


I saw a post somewhere that playing fetch repeatedly is harsh on the joints because of the sudden stops, my girl lacks the drive to constantly retrieve and return sadly. i think the best way for her might be to go uphill or on longer strolls where she gets excited and trots more.


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## Ffcmm (May 4, 2016)

Megora said:


> This is a pretty typical thing several times a day. Lot of running and jumping and wrestling, all 3 of them. Healthy for them + it's buffing them up.
> 
> View attachment 874805


gorgeous!!!! i need to read up more on doing road work for teaching Monty how to pace himself, but i think what you do is what he's been doing to maintain his muscle, just letting him be a dog with lots of activity


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