# Attacked for the second time this month?!



## JazzSkye (Aug 1, 2011)

Hi all,

My turn to post with a problem. I've got Jazz, unaltered male, 6; and Skye, spayed female, 14 months. Neither has ever shown any form of aggression towards other dogs and are both open and playful when meeting other dogs.

We live in the mountains, so lots of off-leash walking (although I always take a leash just in case). For the second time in the space of a few weeks, Jazz was attacked by other unaltered males we happened to cross. 

Each time, the other owner and I would spot each other from a distance and collar-hold the males (Skye, being a little skittish with strangers, stays with us and doesn't go forward unless Jazz does), and I'd ask whether the other dog was ok with other dogs. Both times the reply was "yes, very playful" and so we let them go.

They'd run toward each other and do the sniff thing. The first time, the sniffing was finished and the three dogs were heading down the path in the same direction, and I was chatting with the owner ( a three year-old pitt-lab mix) when his dog just suddenly went for Jazz's throat. He drew blood. The owner was completely aghast, apologetic, amazed. Seemed he'd never reacted like that before.

This morning, on the same path, he didn't even get beyond the sniffing stage with a male german shepherd (18 months). The shepherd circled behind him and immediately tried to mount him, and it took us a few seconds to get them apart. No blood drawn.

A) I'm wondering if this is because I had Skye with me. She's neutered, but the vet says she can still smell like a female in heat at certain times (her ovaries were taken out but not the uterus).

B) I'm also wondering if this can be linked to Jazz's own male hormones, which the vet recently said were abundant. He's being treated for an enlarged prostate by phytotherapy.

Any insight welcome. I've always been very relaxed with Jazz off-leash, and he's had fun playing with the dogs we meet, but for now I'm going to leash him as soon as I see another dog, and ask the other owner to do the same. But I'm worried that the tension I now feel when leading him up to another dog might also inspire aggression in the dogs...:uhoh:

Thoughts?


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## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

unaltered male, 6. Fix him. Other dogs can smell that he,s not fixed.


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## JazzSkye (Aug 1, 2011)

I don't want to neuter him if possible, nor does the vet. He's a good sire. I've also been told this wouldn't necessarily fix the problem. Besides, we've never had problems with unaltered males before this. Something in the equation has changed, and I'm thinking it might be Skye.


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## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

In my experience, the problem occurs because of the unaltered male. At dog park, when there is a problem, it usually involves an unaltered male.


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## JazzSkye (Aug 1, 2011)

It's true that all the males in the scenario were unaltered. But again, Jazz has been unaltered for 6 years and we've had no problems before this. And he is still not showing aggression, but is rather on the receiving end. I'd snip him in a second otherwise. I'd really hate to neuter him, for more reasons than one--the least of which being because other unaltered males turn ugly. Kind of like making the bullied child change schools because the bullier won't leave him alone, isn't it?


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## Karen2 (Jan 5, 2009)

At our dog park, though I don't go that often, Lance and Sierra are both fixed, the only issues I have ever had was with intact males with Lance, they tend to bully him.
Lance is a large dog about 100 pounds, very happy-go-lucky attitude. He gets very confused when all of sudden he's getting bullied. Sierra has also been dominated by an intact male, literally ran her over and stood on top of her.
I think some of the issue is the testosterone, some is a dominant behavior from being a pack animals.


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## gold4me (Mar 12, 2006)

Our 4 year old male is unaltered and in the only 2 visits to the dog park he was attacked by an altered male. He was minding his own business playing ball and the other dog attacked. He was also attacked when walking once by an altered male. Gambler is very sweet and laid back. It isn't always the unaltered dog that starts things. Now Gambler is defensive when meeting new dogs. It is a shame and we will never go back to the dog park.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

I would just not let him interact with males you don't know. It may just be Skye smelling like she is in heat or Jazz smelling like LOTS of testosterone right now, but unless you are sure the other male will be appropriate, why chance it?

To the other posters, the OP is in France where most males are intact.


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## Odette3 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi -

I would advise that you have him neutered. My first golden was neutered at 6 and there were no problems afterward nor even before. The reason I did it was because there is a possibility of prostate cancer in older dogs that are intact. Don't know how true this is but I didn't want to take chances. He later died of lymphoma at 10.


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

Your dog may not be aggressive but he is being bullied for being an intact male. I have had that happen with one of my previous dogs also. I can only recommend not to let him interact with other males for his own sake and health. 
Are you a breeder? You mentioned that Jazz is a good sire.
About a neutered male turning "ugly", I have not encountered that with any of my dogs. I think if a dog has a bad temperament, it does not matter whether he is intact or not, he will be agressvie regardless. 
I am originally from Germany and yes, European countries are not that fond of having their pets spayed or neutered. I don't know why. There are also a lot of countries in Europe with an abundance of strays, I wonder why?


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Your best course of action is to just not let him interact with intact males. You don't want him to learn to be defensive, or have to defend himself either. Just safer for you to protect him. 

Just curious, why did they leave Skye's uterus when they spayed her? I've never heard that before.


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## BajaOklahoma (Sep 27, 2009)

I was just typing in that question. lol
Once the ovaries are removed, the uterus no longer produces any hormones. So I'm not sure of the reason (I like to learn).


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## JazzSkye (Aug 1, 2011)

mylissyk said:


> Just curious, why did they leave Skye's uterus when they spayed her? I've never heard that before.


I know...that was a new one on me too. I've mentioned in other threads that our vet uses a mix of traditional medicine and phytotherapy, osteopathy, and acupuncture. This makes him somewhat of a curiosity but people swear by him and I very much liked him when we first met. So did my dogs.

He believes in minimally invasive treatment: an ovariectomy is quicker and less invasive, lesser recovery time. According to some studies, less risk of urinary incontinence afterwards and no significant risk of uterine complications. 

For the record, he also uses (sorry, don't know the term in English) a type of anesthesia typically used on smaller animals: a gas and oxygen mix via mask, once the animal has been put to sleep using intravenous meds. Lighter, more easily controlled, less dangerous, quicker recovery time.

Here's one study on ovariectomy I found:

Ovariectomy or ovariohysterectomy - comparison of long-term effects

PS: by the way, can someone tell me exactly what "OP" stands for?


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## SeaMonster (Jul 4, 2011)

The only issues we've had at our dog park has involved unaltered males.


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## vcm5 (Apr 20, 2011)

OP stands for original poster!


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Skye should not be attractive to any males with her ovaries gone, otherwise what was the point of not doing an ovariohysterectomy?


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

Does your dog have any unusual behaviors? For example, one of my "timid" dogs was more prone to being attacked by other dogs because she had unusual movements. She tended to be a bit "slinky" which, according to a behaviorist, made her more vulnerable to other dogs becasue she looked odd...
I really don't think it has a lot to do with your dog being intact or not.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Dogs are dogs.

You have some that are not trained.

You have some who have issues with dogs - colors, size, movement, face. There are various things that cause dogs to feel threatened and go nuts. 

I don't care if they are intact or not. They are not allowed to visit with your dog if their owners are not right there and controlling them. 

If I'm at a park with my dog loose, and if I see a loose dog approaching, I'm usually snapping a leash on my dog and putting myself between the other dog and mine. Mainly because I do not want my dog attacked. 

Neutering is not the answer to controlling the behavior of dogs. That's not how it works, and generally dogs are just as aggressive without the hormones as before. 

If my dog had prostate problems, I would neuter him....


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## canine_mommy (Dec 27, 2010)

With intact males, the other dogs can sense the hormones. And though people are quick to blame the intact male for any fights, as far as I have seen, it's mostly the neutered males attack the intact/unaltered ones, at least in the case of Goldens. It's usually a neutered dog of another breed going after an intact Golden.

I wouldn't suggest resolving the problem by just neutering the dog. There may be several reasons to have an intact dog: sire, waiting till 1.5yrs or thyroid issues. I just avoid dog parks in general and only allow my dog to play with known dogs. I've had my pup attacked when he was just 6 months old too and then again when he was about 9-10 months old. I've decided to simply avoid unknown dogs.


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## Braccarius (Sep 8, 2008)

Its funny... I've never been bitten by a dog that wasn't friendly.


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## Makomom (Feb 28, 2012)

Our first golden "Bucky" was not fixed and was fine with other dogs but at age 11 he got testicular cancer and had to be castrated!!! He lived another 6 months. I have had 2 other males and had them both fixed at 4 months old...for us our goldens are our kids and we do not breed them.


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## OutWest (Oct 6, 2011)

I got Tucker neutered a bit ahead of schedule because he was attracting this sort of attention from other males dogs. He's very easy going and wasn't really defending himself--probably a good thing in the long run. But I think it's pretty common for male dogs (especially neutered male dogs) to want to have a dominance "play" with unaltered male dogs. I think your approach is good if you're not going to neuter him. You'll just need to make sure his recall is super good, and that he's at your side on a leash until you're sure about the approaching dog.


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