# Goldenridge Kennels



## Sally's Mom

Oohhhh, Liberty,ME...please post. If you want to get a golden retriever with all four clearances as recommended by the GRCA, including current (within one year) eye clearances, this is not the breeder for you. In the past, they have bred litters from underage bitches, as well as sires and dams that do not have all four clearances. So if you are interested in a litter from this breeder, get the names of the parents and go on Orthopedic Foundation for Animals, if they are on the website, using their registered names, you should be able to find them. And it is not simply enough that the parents have clearances, there should be at least five generations of clearances behind the parents.


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## JennaC

Thanks for the info, that is what I was affraid of...

I really am interested in a dark/reddish golden and can't seem to find them anywhere. Should have known this kennel was too good to be true!!


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## penparson

You can search the Forom for previous posts about this kennel. It was not for us when we were looking for a puppy in the Fall of 2010.


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## JennaC

Oh wow! Sorry I didn't check that first...thanks for the responses. I guess the hunt goes on...


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## LibertyME

<sigh> 
Not members of the national breed club or any statewide clubs of any sort (breed obedience agility hunting ... nada
Dont follow breeders Code Of Ethics
Clearances are often missing...
Underage breeding is common...
They do nothing with their dogs....nothing to verify conformation, train-ability or natural working desire
Then there is the whole marketing puppies based on color
Then the whole "American Standard Golden Retrievers" "British Cream" / "Euro Cream" marketing chatter...
Biggest brag is that some of their puppies have been on the LL Bean catalog..

Because you asked for unbiased...
Im will keep my personal observations (having seen her breed stock and plenty of puppies) from said breedings out of my comments...
I will keep my personal opinions about their contract out of my comments
I will keep my personal opinions about their guardian homes out of my comments

Must say their webpage has morphed more and more over the years to hit all the talking points and it looks neater then it has in the past....but please dont let the website of any breeder sway you. Look for and gather facts. If the facts are not in a verifiable public database then IMHO you owe it to yourself to request copies before signing a contract or sending any money.


*PLEASE* read through the links below...they are good helpful guidelines that have been thoughtfully written for puppy buyers just like yourself.

Code of Ethics
Golden Retriever Club of America - All About Goldens

How Can I find a Good breeder:
http://www.grca.org/pdf/all_about/PuppyQuestionsFlyer_Rev2.pdf

Choosing a reputable breeder:
Golden Retriever Club of America - All About Goldens

Choosing a puppy:
Golden Retriever Club of America - All About Goldens

Health Concerns
Golden Retriever Club of America - All About Goldens


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## golden_eclipse

Check Colonial Goldens, they are in Maine, and they have a lovely dark male "beamer". She does all the clearances and competes with her dogs. I know color can be a nice thing to want, but its not worth sacrificing health or temperament for.

Colonial Goldens

Its good to contact the breeder even if their site doesn't say something specific, because great breeders don't need to advertise and often have a litter spoken for before its bred, and never even need to announce it on their website.


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## tippykayak

Don't worry about color too much. I loved light colored Goldens, but my last three have been on the dark end of the spectrum, and the dark color is currently my favorite. I always say that your favorite shade of Gold is going to be the one of the living, breathing furball by your side.


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## HappyTails

*Goldenridge Kennels- Unprofessional, Unorganized, Not Recommended*

I recently spent almost a year on waiting lists for a dog from Goldenridge Kennels in Maine. It was the worst experience ever. My other dogs we adopted, so spending a lot of money using a breeder was new for us. I wish we would have read this forum first-we didn't know a lot about clearances/certifications, so to the average person it looked good at first glance and they talked up their bloodlines. 

What we found was a complete lack of communication and professionalism. The first 2 dogs didn't take, not a big deal-that's Mother Nature, but they didn't tell us this until after the due date and I had to inquire a week after to find this out. So here we were buying a collar the week the pups were due, and the dog wasn't even pregnant. We asked for our deposit back, they said no. We got on 3 more lists, waited months... Again, no communication/updates unless I inquired. Watched FB posts of our #2 dog give birth, emailed asking what happens next and the status of dog #1, they emailed back saying they'd update us as things progress. It came to one week before puppy pick out for #2, still hadn't heard anything and I emailed to check in on dog #1 and #2- all of a sudden we were no longer on dog #2 list, and I had emails to confirm we were. They repeatedly ignored our inquiry on dog #1. They refused that we were on dog #2's list, but they had previously confirmed it in writing several times-it was indisputable. After emailing them our frustrations in a diplomatic way and forwarding the emails confirming our spot on the list, the breeder called us and was very rude, snarky, and extremely unprofessional. Found out our #1 dog had been bred by two studs, because the original stud didn't get along with the female (both reds). So they used a "euro" stud as well as original red stud, and would now have to do DNA tests at $150 a test for parents and puppies and instead of relaying this to us, they ignored us because they didn't think we'd like the answer. They told us we were difficult to deal with from the start, when all we had been was patient. They tried to argue the reason they ignored our inquiries was because I "was so set on a red golden, when most of their customers would be happy with any of their dogs..." implying I was being difficult because I only wanted a red golden. I'm sorry, if I am going to pay $1,600 for a dog-it's going to be the one I want, and we were not interested in the euros. We want a red field golden. They wound up hanging up on us. But it was no surprise, because they called looking for a fight. They sent an email 15 minutes later, confirming they were sending a refund and they were taking us off the two lists we discussed, then they proceeded to name a dog whose list we had never been on! They were still confusing the lists we were on after the fact. It is my opinion they have too many dogs and puppies going at once that they can't keep track. One of their recent FB posts said at one time they had 18 adult dogs and 54 puppies on site. That sounds like a lot. 

I wish I could warn more people. I'm so exhausted from the emotional roller coster we went on, it's tainted the whole experience for us. I'm sure some people are very happy because they got a puppy without incident, and nothing makes you happy like the love of a dog, but for us it was a nightmare.


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## Sally's Mom

I have sold my Ch sired and titled mom pups for $1000. Not only,, we have more than five generations of clearances. Good to walk away..


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## Sally's Mom

Ask Goldenridge for parental clearances as verifiable on Orthopedic Foundation for Animals...ps likely not verifiable..


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## Dr. Pet Lover

Hi

I have had a wonderful experience with Roxanne from Golden Ridge. She is a little disorganized - but she will show all clearances if you ask.

What she is very good at is breeding dogs with very little inbreeding. If you are a believer of the literature - dogs should be bred with a coefficient of inbreeding less than six percent. This results in dogs that live longer.

Roxanne spends the time and money to get Goldens from Europe . She breeds these European dogs to Americans . This is a wonderful way to get a great dog with low inbreeding . The literature says these dogs should live longer. The disadvantage is that they may not do as well in a show- but most of us don't show our dogs. I just want a member of the family who is going to be healthy and live a long time

I'm not sure why so many breeders are still breeding Goldens with a coefficient of inbreeding higher than six percent ?

Does anyone know why there is still so much inbreeding ?


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## Prism Goldens

COI is the likelihood that any given allele will be directly inherited from any particular dog who has a % in the list of top contributors to the COI total.
If you want a Golden that looks like a Golden, one w/ a COI of 0-5 isn't going to predictably have breed type. It is a balancing act to manage COI, and complete outcrosses are unpredictable. To do that, you've got to be pretty certain of the dogs you are adding to your top contributors, since not only will a breeder be adding in the great of a dog but also his/her not so great. That takes lots of research and personal knowledge you can't get sitting home randomly breeding dogs based on a low COI. Just the simple fact of a dog being imported (*and you can bet if MR Import Studly was so great, he'd still be w/his breeder*) isn't a good reason to do a breeding and the willynilly method of relying on COI only is foolhardy. Do you really believe that these European breeders are going to ship away to the US their best stock? No. Because we have a market here for any and every import's get they can pawn them off on US puppy people as somehow superior by virtue of some byb's sales tactics. This sort of breeder imports stud dogs and then uses them on all their girls, w/no idea what they are creating besides a low COI. See a HUGE redlight with this sales pitch!

edit- took a minute to go to OFA and check Bentley's clearances- no elbows- tells me he didn't pass them. No one does hips without elbows. And his eyes are out of date, and no cardiac clearance. Mama's full name isn't on the site, so that makes it hard to check her clearances. But he has 3 half sibs who are missing hip clearances, yet have elbows- no one does elbows without doing hips!- and a full sibling missing elbows while possessing hip clearance. Sadly, those dogs also are out there making puppies- on the basis of having been imported- without even the most basic of clearances. Sad, sad that there are so many people buying into the import sired thing. It hurts the breed we all love.


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## HiTideGoldens

Dr. Pet Lover said:


> Hi
> 
> I have had a wonderful experience with Roxanne from Golden Ridge. She is a little disorganized - but she will show all clearances if you ask.
> 
> What she is very good at is breeding dogs with very little inbreeding. If you are a believer of the literature - dogs should be bred with a coefficient of inbreeding less than six percent. This results in dogs that live longer.
> 
> Roxanne spends the time and money to get Goldens from Europe . She breeds these European dogs to Americans . This is a wonderful way to get a great dog with low inbreeding . The literature says these dogs should live longer. The disadvantage is that they may not do as well in a show- but most of us don't show our dogs. I just want a member of the family who is going to be healthy and live a long time
> 
> I'm not sure why so many breeders are still breeding Goldens with a coefficient of inbreeding higher than six percent ?
> 
> Does anyone know why there is still so much inbreeding ?


What literature are you referring to? 


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## nolefan

Dr. Pet Lover said:


> ...but most of us don't show our dogs. I just want a member of the family who is going to be healthy and live a long time...


You are correct, most people do not show their dogs. However most of us do want our dogs to be healthy. Spending a large sum of money on a puppy from a breeder who doesn't obtain proper clearances is NOT the best way to give yourself the best chance at having a healthy Golden Retriever. 

You have been totally snowed by someone who is not adhering to a code of ethics if you really believe that spending time and money getting dogs in Europe has anything to do with a healthier puppy. Please go to GRCA.org and read the Code of Ethics and information on the importance of health clearances. Go back to your breeder and ask her why she doesn't follow the recommended breeding practices of the national club. Then come back here and someone will discuss COI with you.


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## Dr. Pet Lover

So much bitterness about inbreeding - c'mon , this is a friendly discussion

I'm just a Dad getting a dog for me and my family

It just seems like it is a trade- off . I either am trusting someone who says they have all clearances (even if they are documented online I am not 100% sure I can trust them- as a doctor I see other Docs "clearing" athletes all the time). Or I am getting a dog with a significant amount of inbreeding that may be good to make a dog meet a strict standard-but can't be good for long term health.


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## Dancer

Dr. Pet Lover said:


> Hi
> 
> 
> 
> I have had a wonderful experience with Roxanne from Golden Ridge. She is a little disorganized - but she will show all clearances if you ask.
> 
> 
> 
> What she is very good at is breeding dogs with very little inbreeding. If you are a believer of the literature - dogs should be bred with a coefficient of inbreeding less than six percent. This results in dogs that live longer.
> 
> 
> 
> Roxanne spends the time and money to get Goldens from Europe . She breeds these European dogs to Americans . This is a wonderful way to get a great dog with low inbreeding . The literature says these dogs should live longer. The disadvantage is that they may not do as well in a show- but most of us don't show our dogs. I just want a member of the family who is going to be healthy and live a long time
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure why so many breeders are still breeding Goldens with a coefficient of inbreeding higher than six percent ?
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone know why there is still so much inbreeding ?



Welcome to the forum! I see these are your first posts and you joined a couple of hours ago. Was kind of waiting for a brand new member to join and defend a breeder who there is controversy over, but educational opportunities should be available to all interested parties , right? It's interesting that you have looked into inbreeding to an extent , but have not focused your research on the importance of clearances and competition? Please stick around the site if you'd like to learn more about why clearances and competition are so important. 


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## Alaska7133

Just our of curiousity what are you a doctor of?


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## lhowemt

To say you can't get clearances and low COI is bunk. Sounds like marketing BS by a Greeder that is trying to sell their dogs for a lot of money without any basis other than they got a European reject shipped over. Hate that!

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## Prism Goldens

Dr. Pet Lover said:


> So much bitterness about inbreeding - c'mon , this is a friendly discussion
> 
> I'm just a Dad getting a dog for me and my family
> 
> It just seems like it is a trade- off . I either am trusting someone who says they have all clearances (even if they are documented online I am not 100% sure I can trust them- as a doctor I see other Docs "clearing" athletes all the time). Or I am getting a dog with a significant amount of inbreeding that may be good to make a dog meet a strict standard-but can't be good for long term health.


I don't personally have a problem w/a higher than 6 and less than 15 COI. It seems ideal to me. But I know all the dogs behind the pedigrees and am reasonably sure I know what I am getting along with those sperm! What I can get bitter about is people selling a load of crap to unsuspecting others who are relying on transparency and knowledge on the part of the breeder- without a full understanding of what they are being sold. And as well, breeding dogs without clearances. There are so many stud dogs in this country that a breeder with a bitch who has her clearances can choose from. Why in the world would someone repeatedly breed a dog who almost certainly didn't pass elbows to all their girls, when he is not the best thing that could be used on them? Especially when he has a documented sibling history of failing clearances? 
As to trusting the clearances- it is a prudent thing to be sure each and every one of them says VPI on the end of it. That means the vet verified the dog's chip or tat, and he is who he was purported to be when he was brought to be examined. Most heart and eye clearances are done at dog shows by Board Cert specialists- and those vets no way no how would lie. They have no interest in doing so (though I can see how a team doc would have an interest so understand your skepticism). And for the hips and elbows, the film is ID'd w/ dog and owner names, AKC # , chip # and then submitted to a rotating panel of three other ortho specialists by OFA. OFA doesn't release the names of their panel, they change them on a schedule that isn't published and also have nothing to gain and everything to lose in falsifying info on the www.offa.org site. Don't count on k9data to be as black and white-it's user input so yes, there is misinformation there. Always verify what you see on k9data by going to OFA or CERF.

When you choose a Golden, I presume you are choosing a dog based on the breed type you like, which is the breed standard- and also on the reputation of the temperament and those are what makes a Golden a Golden. 
It crawls all over me when people are cranking out 5-6 litters a year, not doing a single thing with them but breeding, and they don't even have a history of any knowledge on any competition in any venue, yet claim they are achieving a betterment of the breed. I have more tolerance for the suburban family who has a litter or two with the neighbor's dog, after being sure that their dogs pass clearances. At least those people aren't setting out to deceive.


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## LJack

Dr. Pet Lover said:


> So much bitterness about inbreeding - c'mon , this is a friendly discussion
> 
> I'm just a Dad getting a dog for me and my family
> 
> It just seems like it is a trade- off . I either am trusting someone who says they have all clearances (even if they are documented online I am not 100% sure I can trust them- as a doctor I see other Docs "clearing" athletes all the time). Or I am getting a dog with a significant amount of inbreeding that may be good to make a dog meet a strict standard-but can't be good for long term health.


It is easy to look from the outside and think any inbreeding is a bad thing becuase we look at it from a human stand point in which we have serious negative reactions to. The fact is all purebred animals are inbreed, they have to be in order to become a breed. You really should look in to the establishment of the breed if you have deep seated qualms about inbreeding, it would be in lightening for you. 

As others have said, I have no qualms with COI's of 5-15 nor those who chooses to do tighter breedings with lines they intimately know, though I would not do them myself. 

I am sorry you have a doubting perspective of clearences. Just for your own knowledge, here is a quote from OFA about their procedure on hips and elbows...
"Radiographs of animals 24 months of age or older are independently evaluated by three randomly selected, board-certified veterinary radiologists from a pool of 20 to 25 consulting radiologists throughout the USA in private practice and academia." 
So, you would need to find three radiologists willing to compromise thier professional integrity to pass a dog that should not.

But, here is what I really want to share, it does not have to be one or the other. You can find a low COI puppy from a reputable breeder with full clearances. Reputable breeders will sometimes do a thoroughly researched well planned outcross breeding (one that does not result from owning both animals) that results in low COI pups while still trying to maintain breed type. Here are links to three such dogs who all have a less than 5 COI in a 10 generation calculation.
Pedigree: Abelard's Towanda!
Pedigree: Belmont's Talks Alot
Pedigree: Wildfire's I Have A Dream

The key here is you have to be willing to seek out these particular breedings which could mean a long wait. But, incredibly worth it for the generations of health clearances and the low COI you are comfortable with.


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## Dr. Pet Lover

Thank you SO much for this info

I am a bit of a perfectionist - do you know of any breeders who are very concerned with clearances and inbreeding ?


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## Prism Goldens

I think when you make inquiries of breeders (check your closest GRC for a list) you should ask for a test breeding link on k9data- look at the genetic link at the bottom, look at the dogs mentioned as highest contributors to the COI. If the COI number is ok w/you, at that point go to www.offa.org and physically look up at least 3 generations behind the litter- and 5 is better- finding all clearances (hips, elbows, heart and eyes) on every dog behind the litter. If that's all in place, and you like the breeder, go with it. There are many good breeders near enough to you. All good breeders are concerned with COI, longevity and a depth of clearances- of course- it's counterintuitive to do otherwise if you plan to stay a respected breeder.


The problem with byb and hvb people is they sell either 'not inbred' or 'eng cream' or some other selling scheme and those schemes are not accepted methods of breeding. Most puppy buyers know that they should see clearances, but when they read on a site that the breeder gets clearances, they don't check it out. They want to believe what they read... which is often unfortunately untrue. This breeder for example says she does all the clearances on her front page. Yet the stud dog she's used on 4 of her girls this year is missing elbows. Not to mention his siblings' poor clearance results. He's not a dog anyone interested in a complete clearance history would consider breeding to. 
All clearances are a must, check siblings too, and offspring (knowing that they must be 12 mo at least to do cardiac, and 24 mo to do hips/elbows) too, and know that if a person doesn't compete, they for sure are not going to have the sort of knowledge you gain when you go to shows, watch the promising puppies as they grow up... if they are doing well and looking good and suddenly get placed at 13 months, something, eyes or heart, or even prelims on hips/elbows were failed. There's much to be said for watching dogs grow up if their pedigrees interest you (as a breeder) and keeping up with who leaves the scene at a critical time in clearance attainment. I think most good breeders are active enough in several arenas and have their eyes and ears open and bank the knowledge for when they are looking for a stud for their own bitches. I'd even say most of us start watching the 6-9 puppies and may not use a dog that caught their eye at 6 months until he's 6-7 yo- but he's been on the radar for all his life. Couple that idea with the idea that one can't possibly know if their dogs are even correct- or what's wrong with them if not, and what could be fixed- if they only ever see their own dogs. Seeing ones own dogs in a line with a bunch of other ones gives you a different vision than seeing them playing in the yard. Whether you ever plan to show or not is irrelevant- if you want a healthy dog, he needs to be correct for his breed. If he's not, where ever he is lacking can manifest into a problem- I don't mean small things like an extra eyelash or too long ears but I am talking about incorrect proportions, too long legs, too short legs, shoulders not laid back acceptably, that sort of thing. There are no perfect dogs but there are a lot of correct dogs. Breeders who don't compete will find it hard to judge how incorrect or correct their own dogs are.


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## LJack

Dr. Pet Lover said:


> Thank you SO much for this info
> 
> I am a bit of a perfectionist - do you know of any breeders who are very concerned with clearances and inbreeding ?


I think most reputable breeders are very concerned about both. They however have a different veiw/comfort level of COI than you do. Most breeders are looking at the whole picture and a specific target which is why everyone has a difepferent comfort level with COI numbers though most will fall into the 0-15 range. They are looking to produce a dog with so many specific qualities that breeding solely for COI is not the best focus. When you have a breeder who starts to focus one one aspect or trait it is very detrimental to the whole dog. Wheather it is looking solely at COI, color, drive, temperament, etc to the exclusion of all else, you will be getting a dog great in that one area but likely to fall far short of the ideal golden as a whole package.
That is why I suggested finding a reputable breeder who is doing an outcross. Though not common, good breeders do these breeding for very specific reasons usually to bring in a specific trait from an unrelated line. 
I honestly would be concerned to hear a breeder claiming low COI as the main focus of their program. To me that seems like there is no goal since style and breed type would be almost impossible to establish if every breeding was to completely unrelated individuals. The offspring would be all over the place as far as looks, temperment, inherited issues, etc. 
Not that it could not happen, but I usually see the tooting the low COI horn from less than reputable breeders who are using this as an excuse to breed unhealth tested dogs from mediocre stock and sell them for unreasonable prices. 
That is why I think it will be a chalenge to find a reputable breeder at just the right time to get a pup from an outcross breeding. You may have to be prepared to wait for the right puppy. 
If I were in your shoes I would start reaching out to the reputable breeders suggested by your local Golden Retriever Club, I think the closest is Potomac Valley Golden Retriever Club, and let them know what you are looking for. If they do not have a puppy that fits your needs, they may know other breeders who have or are planning an outcross litter.


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## Ljilly28

Dr. Pet Lover said:


> Thank you SO much for this info
> 
> I am a bit of a perfectionist - do you know of any breeders who are very concerned with clearances and inbreeding ?


My dog with the lowest COI of any I have owned is ironically the dog with bilateral severe elbow dysplasia who had surgery at 7 months. 

Here is her COI: 10-generation COI	0.08%
12-generation COI	0.25%

http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=283623

You can see that she was thoughtfully bred from wonderful parents with all clearances, but total outcrossing is a spin of the genetic roulette wheel. 

I have owned many, many goldens, and I have learned that a thoughtful linebreeding on a deeply known and healthy, long-lived dog is by far the best bet.

I also live in Maine and own a busy dog training center. Last session, we happened to have a golden puppy from this breeder alongside several others from more repuatable breeders. I will stick by LibertyME's good example of keeping my own experiences out of the thread, and simply say listen to LibertyME and Sally'sMom.

Our upcoming litter between two GCH goldens. 

10-generation COI	5.36%
12-generation COI	8.06%


Dad: 
Hip clearance:	OFA GR-98092G24M-VPI
Eye clearance:	OFA GR-EYE289/68M-VPI
Heart clearance:	OFA GR-CA14767/15M/C-VPI
Elbow clearance:	OFA GR-EL19905M24-VPI
Thyroid clearance:	OFA GR-TH2331/67M-VPI
prcd-PRA status:	Clear (Optigen GR-PRA109-26M-VPI)
PRA1 status:	Clear (Optigen GR-GR190/65M-VPI)
Ichthyosis status:	Clear (Optigen GR-ICH86/65M-VPI)

Mom:
Hip clearance:	OFA GR-107460G24F-VPI
Eye clearance:	CERF GR-EYE2280/30F-VPI
Heart clearance:	OFA GR-CA23657/25F/C-VPI
Elbow clearance:	OFA GR-EL28101F24-VPI
__________________


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## Selli-Belle

Gayle Watkins of Gaylans breeds litters with COIs of less than 6%, I think you would like her breeding philosophy, unfortunately she usually only sells pups to performance homes. I know Deb Stoll of Glenbrier also is interested in keeping COIs low, she is in Michigan though. Gayle is one of the premier breeders in the country. Deb is a new breeder but very reputable.


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## Sally's Mom

As far as not trusting clearances on line...OFA radiographs are read by three board certified radiologists, it is not one person's opinion nor does who the owner is enter into the picture. The heart clearance is done by a board certified cardiologist and then can be submitted to OFA. Eye clearances are done annually and can be submitted to OFA or CERF. If a breeder states on their website that they do OFA clearances, then I would expect to see them online. Preliminary radiographs show up on OFA, of the owner agrees to it. Otherwise they cannot be verified. However, prelim clearances are not final clearances... Back in the old days, you could not verify OFA clearances online and since I never took any breeder's word for it, I would order the complete hard copy of the clearances from OFA. All of the bitches I have bred have CHIC clearances which means that they have all been tested for all four clearances that the GRCA recommends and those clearances are all listed on OFA. And although mine have passed all four clearances and more, you can still get a CHIC clearance with a failure as long as it is posted on OFA.

My almost 12 year old bitch with all four OFA clearances plus a thyroid clearance (OFA Good hips) still competes in conformation events. Judges cannot believe her age which in my opinion is a testament to a good sound pedigree...generations of clearances behind her... She finished with 10 AKC points, was a Can Ch, and is now 2/3 toward a UKC Ch. And her 10 generation COI is 6.94%.

European lines do not live longer, nor are they more healthy. They just have different issues to deal with. A breeder using those lines should be testing for PRA and ichthyosis...
Plus the usual clearances. 

I do not sell my pups without proof of parental clearances which I find very important. And most of my dogs do not have COI's higher than 8%... But that is because of the stud dogs I have chosen. With the lower COI, you definitely have more diversity in a litter...


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## Ljilly28

You should be able to have all the clearances available to you when you buy a puppy, and expect some kind of reasonable connection between the parent dogs ' accomplishments and the puppies' price.


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## Sally's Mom

This is an interesting topic, as far as clearances... You can find many of the Goldens on Orthopedic Foundation for Animals under the prefix of Hampdengoldenridge or HGR...many of the clearances are recent: 2013...and some are Goldens that were bred before clearances. Elbow clearances are missing on some as are heart and eye clearances... They are listing a litter sired by Winston who does not have hip/elbow clearances on OFA. I get that most people who want a pet do not care about titles, COI, and clearances...but don't you want your pet to have the best health behind it?


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## jdb

Hello,

I really wish I would have found this website BEFORE I put down a deposit on a pup from golden ridge. I was naive, and hastily put down a deposit in January. After I was refused a visit to the kennel (she's now saying I can come this week, but my schedule won't allow this week, and that I can't come visit in May or June... May because she's expecting three litters to be born... another red flag,) I became very suspicous, and then found all of the posts on this forum about goldenridge. After reading more about breeding, I now recognize that we need to run away and find a different breeder for our pup, but unfortunately she's refusing to give us our deposit back. We haven't signed anything, so I'm confused about how she can legally refuse to give us our deposit. HappyTails, any suggestions since you were able to get your deposit back? My husband and I are absolutely dead set against getting a dog from here, but we don't want to lose our 400$. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!


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## tippykayak

Depending on your state, you may be able to pursue her through small claims. With nothing in writing, I'm not sure of your rights, but even beginning a small claims process may get you your deposit back if it's more trouble than it's worth for her.


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## Anon-2130948gsoni

jdb, I'm so sorry--the same thing could have happened to me all too easily, as they're the closest breeder to where I live, so I'm quite sympathetic. I read that website and dimly thought, "Well, bringing in lines from other countries = good," and there's some fancy language as I recall about "longevity" and "health."

What concerned me is how many litters they seem to have, the fact that they say nothing I could find at all about socialization, which is a HUGE deal to me, and charging extra by color? It didn't sound right at all. Then I came here and got some education, thankfully.

I know $400 is a chunk of money but if you end up with a dog requiring surgery or seizure treatment or any of the other things that can and do go wrong, you can add a zero onto that number very quickly. Not to mention the heartache of ending up with a dog with behavioral problems. I used to volunteer at a local shelter and we were seeing more and more dark red Goldens in this area with BIG shyness problems.

Obviously, there aren't any guarantees that even the best breeder isn't going to produce a dog with issues, but I'd walk away from even more than that if it helped me avoid the anguish of loving a dog that wasn't healthy or one that was afraid of people. 

I hope it all works out okay for you.


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## lhowemt

Have you just asked for your deposit back? Not to be smart, but sometimes just asking is the best way to start. If it goes downhill, at least you started with "we're just going to go a different route, this isn't working out for us". 

Did you sign anything? Did you pay with credit card? If you didn't sign anything, and you paid with credit card, and you haven't received a puppy, you might try challenging the charge. Before you do so, document MANY efforts to resolve it, put your request for your money back in writing. Outline that she has not provided a pup, and you have no commitment to keep your deposit open ended. It must be reasonable. If she offers you a pup immediately, I think it is best to call her bluff and go with it, and once it falls through you have more ammunition with your credit card company. 

I'm very sorry, but yes $400 is small potatoes in the grand scheme of life. Some lessons are learned and then moved on from.


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## jdb

Thank you all for your responses! I did ask her for it back, and she said that she doesn't give refunds. I'll try some of the things you suggested. In happier news, I found a wonderful breeder in TN (near family), and I'm hopeful that there will be a pup for us with their upcoming litter. I'm so glad I found this website. Thank you!


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## jdb

And sorry, we didn't sign anything, and we sent a check that has been cashed. Since she's given a deposit back in the past, I'm hopeful that with a little more persuasion, I'll get ours back.


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## Anon-2130948gsoni

I'm really happy for you in finding another way to get your pup and hope you get your $$ back. Who knows, it all could have turned out fine, but why take a risk you don't have to.

Good for you!


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## teddibean1

Happy Tails, please email me privately, would like to discuss your issues with this kennel. I do not want to post on here as I fear repercussions. [email protected] Thanks, will wait to hear from you...


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## teddibean1

For those of you looking for red goldens, there are several available, family type breeders, in Maine. You can find them in Uncle Henry's online. We have had great luck with our two girls through people like this. Best dogs ever, and most come with papers and certs.


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## Goldieluvr1

Tell her you will write a letter to local Better Business Bureau & Chamber of Commerce if she doesn't return it. I'm sorry, but that sounds like extortion.


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## Goldieluvr1

Or if that doesn't get their attention, you could post comment on their FB page!


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## Ljilly28

Please do not buy a golden through Uncle Henry's. Try Colonial Goldens, Bowdens Goldens, Sand Dancer Goldens, Royal River Goldens etc. Look for members of the Maine Golden Retriever club etc rather than puppy mills on the one hand or back yard breeders on the other. Uncle Henry's is just like Craigslist, just not online.


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## Anon-2130948gsoni

Thank you--as someone who volunteered at a shelter and worked as a vet tech for several years here in coastal Maine, the backyard-bred Golden is everywhere and while many are wonderful dogs, there are also more and more behavioral and structural problems. 

Finding an older dog who needs rehoming might avoid some of that, because you can see what you're getting temperament-wise, but I would save up to get a puppy from a reputable breeder rather than gamble my heart on a BYB puppy.


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## jdb

It all worked out exactly as it should, and we've had our Scraps home for the past two weeks. He was the pick of the litter, and the people originally slated to purchase him backed out at the last minute, and we got to welcome him into our family! I'll get a picture of him uploaded. Thanks!


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## Anon-2130948gsoni

I'm so happy for you!!!! Looking forward to the photos...


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## jdb

Here's one! Not sure how to insert the photo 

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...bums7810-scraps-picture54202-tired-scraps.jpg


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## Anon-2130948gsoni

WOW. How do you ever get anything else done except stare at the adorableness????

Congratulations, mazel tov, and many, many happy years together!


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## jdb

It's really hard!! And he's currently sleeping in his crate, and all I can do is go and stand next to the door and listen for him... Haha! He's such a love, and thank you!! We're over the moon!


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## CAROLINA MOM

Congratulations, he's beautiful, soooooooo adorable.


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## teddibean1

Ljilly28 said:


> Please do not buy a golden through Uncle Henry's. Try Colonial Goldens, Bowdens Goldens, Sand Dancer Goldens, Royal River Goldens etc. Look for members of the Maine Golden Retriever club etc rather than puppy mills on the one hand or back yard breeders on the other. Uncle Henry's is just like Craigslist, just not online.


 
We have had fantastic luck getting our girls through a local person we found on Uncle's. Great, great dogs, AKC, hip certified, and responsible family breeders of only one pair. They did the 3 breedings and retired the dogs. We met all of them, the entire family, very responsible. So guess you have to visit and see what they are all about, OF COURSE, no one should buy one of these dogs from someone who is not what they say they are. 

Our dogs are gorgeous, beautiful dark goldens with lovely dispositions. The adult dogs were kept inside the home and were not out in kennels. The father would jump up onto a bar stool and sit and then stand on his hind legs, very well trained and attached to their parent owners. The children handled the puppies daily and they were actually potty trained to go out when we picked up at 8 weeks. 

So it all depends on who you get them from, we would never, ever, ever, randomly get a dog from a family breeder without checking them out thoroughly, but there are some good ones out there. I appreciate your concern about "backyard" breeders, but these were not your typical at all. Yes, everyone should be very careful, but guess what, even this kennel we got the lemon puppy from advertises on Uncle Henry's, so what does that tell you about the kennel?


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## teddibean1

I hesitate to cause any problems at this point. Apparently, the pup went into heat two days after we returned her, but it only lasted a few days. Now they are questioning whether she is pregnant. That dog had zero exposure to any dogs, and there are none in our neighborhood. None. She was never out of our sight, ever. She did say the males were all over her when they took her back, so that is their problem. When we visited this place, there were a few dozen out in the yard, humping each other all over the place. Who knows what you get. I know she will come back on me for posting here, just know it. But just telling it like it is. Yes, we will pursue something somehow, has anyone had any luck getting some money back from a breeder like this? We're talking $1800.


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## teddibean1

Awww. Know how it feels, we lost our beloved golden last fall, she was just a super, extra special lady in all ways. She can never be replaced, and the hole in my heart will never be filled by another. Wish I could figure out how to post a picture of her, how do you do it?


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## solinvictus

" hip certified, and responsible family breeders"

What about elbows, heart and eyes? Those are all certifications that the GRCA suggests ethical breeders do.


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## ArchersMom

teddibean1 said:


> I hesitate to cause any problems at this point. Apparently, the pup went into heat two days after we returned her, but it only lasted a few days. Now they are questioning whether she is pregnant. That dog had zero exposure to any dogs, and there are none in our neighborhood. None. She was never out of our sight, ever. She did say the males were all over her when they took her back, so that is their problem. When we visited this place, there were a few dozen out in the yard, humping each other all over the place. Who knows what you get. I know she will come back on me for posting here, just know it. But just telling it like it is. Yes, we will pursue something somehow, has anyone had any luck getting some money back from a breeder like this? We're talking $1800.


 
I am very confused by whom you are talking about. You were praising a BYB you found on something called Uncle Henry's in the previous post, are you talking about them or Goldenridge? And did you have a female pup from Goldenridge that you returned after she went into heat?


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## ducklucky1

Sorry Archer's Mom...was talking about GR...the other dogs we got from family breeder were super duper dogs, still have one of those. Currently ready to go into a battle with GR owner about a refund, it's a long story, but would advise anyone to go elsewhere. We had to return our pup to GR, even tho we had another home for her, the contract SAYS SO, and ready to fight for some sort of refund. GR has resold our pup. So will let you all know how it goes. We did not get the pup we bargained for, she was supposed to be lighter golden, but not cream, we saw the mom, who was very dark, dad was cream. This pup was all white. When we visited there, all the dogs were outside in the pens, and humping each other all over the place. How would you know, really, what you are getting? This pup never saw the light of day, they were kept in the basement in whelping boxes for 8 weeks, and she was just impossible to housebreak, train, nothing from her at all, so very disobedient, and we tried everything. GR suggested we use a shock collar, no way, I told her, no way. I have a home for her, and she said no, I am coming to get her, and she did. After 6 months of vet bills, shots, food, etc...she went into heat a few days after she was returned to GR, and the owner called me and accused me of returning a pregnant pup. She was not pregnant by any means, no no no. She was not in heat when they picked her up and never had been, and there are no male dogs anywhere near us, and she was never alone for a second outside. It was just a mess, we have other goldens, and have had dogs for 58 years, never had one like this. I don't know if she was mentally disabled or what, the vet checked her out and she was fine physically, but of course you can't look in their heads. It was a 4 month nightmare, while our other golden from the family breeder stood silently by, shaking her head sometimes, I swear, like what is wrong with this pup? So I am going to try to get some type of refund from her in a nice way, but will fight if I have to. Thanks tho, sorry I confused!


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## goldielover1

*Not a good match.*

FYI, While the dogs are beautiful, the breeder is not reliable. I got pushed from list to list. While I understand mother nature is not always fair, after surviving a health issue, this breeder did not communicate what was going on and got kinda upset with me. The last litter she but my name on ended terribly in a miscarriage. I was notified via email. I have not been able to get my deposit back as the breeder applies it to the next litter for up to a year. There are other breeders more sensitive.


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## goldielover1

Same experience for me. Very impersonal, detached and lack of communication. Now I am out of my deposit after being on a waiting list since March.


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## sirbailey

penparson said:


> You can search the Forom for previous posts about this kennel. It was not for us when we were looking for a puppy in the Fall of 2010.


May I ask where you found your dog ? This kennel looks like a puppy mill...never ' empty' !


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## goldielover1

Don't go there. I had money down and she refused to give it back initially after an entire litter was still born. She was going to choose the litter for me. She was rude on several occasions and finally gave me my deposit back after about a month. Check out Salty Dogs Golden Retrievers in Maine. Kennel free breeders that provide the clearances and family tree for all their dogs online. If you are looking for a new family member, their pups are gorgeous, happy and healthy.


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## Ljilly28

Maine has several good breeders, and about twenty who do not do clearances and charge 3K for "rare english cremes" etc.

Make sure both parents of any litter considered have their clearances for hips elbows, heart, and eyes- no excuses.


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