# Show dog goldens being overly trimmed



## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

The past year I have noticed a trend that I am not liking. I am seeing the goldens in the show rings coats look like they are being stripped or a clipped with a clipper with a 1 inch blade, completely all over their body. It is so sad, this a breed that is supposed to have a wash and wear coat with just trimmed feet and ears. I have even heard some stories that some of these dogs are actually shaved down so it grows in evenly like that ( not sure how true this is ).

Is this being done all over the country or just in the Midwest?


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

I haven't noticed any looking like that around Ohio. I don't do conformation though. I am always too busy with performance activities.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

I have not noticed anything like that in the Northeast....


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

The only dogs I've seen in the mid-Atlantic area that might meet that description are some of the young dogs under 18 mos. They look perfectly coifed; however the handful of those that I do know are not & have not been shaved or scissored to create the look. These are multi-purpose bred dogs as well, so not breedings w/ the whole intent to just win in the show ring.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I completely agree. I have experimented trimming my dogs in a more extreme way and showing them neatened and natural. They definitely do better with more extreme grooming. Judges equate it with polish and being "serious", but it is incorrect. Frustrating.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

In TX it's like having Supermodels on display. They do look good but sometimes just a little too perfect, not a hair out of place, no waves.. flat iron? When you show around here they must pay the groomer extra! While they are beautiful I certainly can't see them running through a field! I don't do confirmation but love to watch, the darker dogs don't get as much attention either and seldom even see them. But wow, when you do they are gorgeous and really stand out.

Thanks for sharing this, there are hopes for my grooming skills after all.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

This thread is just plain disheartening. I love the idea of soaking each one with a hose as they enter the ring. (the dogs, not the judges  ) Shame on the judges who reward this travesty.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

nolefan said:


> This thread is just plain disheartening. I love the idea of soaking each one with a hose as they enter the ring. (the dogs, not the judges  ) Shame on the judges who reward this travesty.


One of the more fun shows we did last year... we had pouring rain. Like heavy pouring rain.

A lot of people rushed their dogs over from the grooming tents over to the show tent and had the dogs looking as poofed as possible for that first look the judge got as they went out into the ring. Beyond that there was nothing you could do.

Some people were actually skipping grooming completely (I didn't though because I knew the bigger people were not skipping grooming).

The dogs who had proper coats were fine. A lot of them, like Bertie, were damp on top or rain dappled but the coats for the most part stayed dry and the judge could tell.

The ones who had their coat blown open (puppies) got a bit more soaked and judge could tell. 

The judge had a ball - and a lot of us were having fun as well. In between trying to keep our shoes on our feet while running through the mud.  

I've been told, btw, to never use clippers or blades of any kind on the jacket especially. Because the coats won't look right when they grow back. So I don't know anyone who clips the coat. A lot of people groom the same way... 

Only real overgrooming that I've seen are people removing too much around neck and head and trimming along the belly and down the legs. And people using flat irons on flips.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

OMGoodness! A FLAT IRON!?!?!?! I have now heard it all.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

nolefan said:


> OMGoodness! A FLAT IRON!?!?!?! I have now heard it all.


I have not seen the flat iron being used on the goldens, but I have seen plenty of people use it on other breeds.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

I have seen people use rakes to thin coats, especially on dogs that are specials and have super thick coats. Then trim the cape to bring it in line.

So when I look back at goldens from the 70's, I do not see dogs that would have coats that thick! What are we breeding for the show ring today? It's crazy that coats have to be that thick to win. So now you've bred them to the point their coats are too thick, now you have to groom them to the enth degree to have them not look too over the top.

Sigh, I'm glad I spayed Lucy even more now. We are straying farther and farther from the breed standard in order to win. Why don't judges read the standard anymore?


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

I was just looking through pictures I had taken over the past two years, and notice a big difference on how the grooming has changed - either that or it seems like the pictures with goldens with their hair more natural are seen more at the Specialties than the all breed shows - does that make sense? Judges at Specialties are usually breeder/judges - judges that have bred to the standard.

I know I was told to strip the hair around Kennedy's neck - my daughter did, I was told MORE, she did, and that is when he got his first point.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

nolefan said:


> This thread is just plain disheartening. I love the idea of soaking each one with a hose as they enter the ring. (the dogs, not the judges  ) Shame on the judges who reward this travesty.


I did once haul Mystic out of the lake and run out of time to bathe him. I blow dried him from lake water and owner handled him to Select with 14 specials lol. However that is my one and only proud moment of defiance or owner handling for that matter. 

I would LOVE bucket of water showing


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Ljilly28 said:


> I did once haul Mystic out of the lake and run out of time to bathe him. I blow dried him from lake water and owner handled him to Select with 14 specials...


This is a great story


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## smp (Apr 27, 2016)

My neighbor shaves his 13 year old, 80# golden twice a year - not for confirmation, but just because he says that his boy always hates being hot. He's getting up there in age, but he seems to love it. Runs around like a puppy for about two weeks after his "shearing." He's really handsome, but looks like the biggest golden puppy you've ever seen.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Let's all remember that it is a dog SHOW. Prettiness counts. Giving a good first impression whether it is proper breed type silhouette or just WOW factor, does come into play. If your job is to win at a dog show, you're going to do everything within the rules to give yourself an advantage. Having said that, it is a regional thing, and I know exactly what you're talking about with the Goldens groomed to absolute perfection. Some are comical how un-natural it looks. I guess that appeals to some people. I even see stacked pictures of 8 week old puppies that are groomed on every inch of their bodies. Frankly kudos to them, I don't know how they get them to hold still long enough to do that 

I prefer to do no grooming other than a bath/blow dry, nails and clean ears in between shows. I hardly ever trim ears/feet/tail between shows. I LIKE starting with a clean slate and doing a complete trim right before a show. Other people are meticulous about keeping up grooming. I feel it's psychological, like the competitive swimmer that only shaves his legs before a swim meet. My dogs go from pretty normal looking pets to SUPER in a matter of hours and it's a real boost of confidence the day before a show.

I've been blessed -- or is that cursed -- with goldens with short, straight, relatively thin coats. Maybe it's the climate, probably it's genetic. In either case there's just not a lot of grooming to be done. BUT -- when I prep for a show -- there is hardly a hair on the dog that is not trimmed or attended to. The challenge is to make it look natural AND accentuate the positive attributes of the dog.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> I prefer to do no grooming other than a bath/blow dry, nails and clean ears in between shows. I hardly ever trim ears/feet/tail between shows. I LIKE starting with a clean slate and doing a complete trim right before a show. Other people are meticulous about keeping up grooming.


I just gotta say.... 

I trim the night before and I do keep up the trimming on ears and feet every few weeks (like through the winter when we go about 4 months without showing)... but I think that's less about being meticulous and more about getting more sleep in the morning before driving to a show... the less I have to do between arriving and going into the ring, the better I sleep the night before. I think a lot of that is lack of confidence and need to have several tweaks at the ears esp... 

I'm hoping the next puppy I bring home and hopefully get to play in the conformation ring with... I hope his ears and feet will be more like Jacks.... 

Trimming his ears consists of cleaning up the edge, stripping excess from underneath, and using thinners in front/under the front of the ears. Which sounds like a lot, but isn't anything like the amount of work that goes into removing the long shag that I would have with Bertie's ears if he went a month or two without being groomed.  

Jacks feet as well, I have no idea why but they are much easier to trim than Bertie's. I literally only use one pair of shears to cut around and shape the top and it looks just fine. Takes me about a couple minutes per foot and no fuss. And his feet aren't as round as Bertie's, so in theory they should be more difficult to trim and get them to look right. It's probably a psychological thing with the feet. <= But it does tell you how freaked out I would be if I were trying to do everything the same morning as a show. LOL.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

I trim a day or two before the show. Unless it's something obvious I missed, I rarely pick up the scissors at a show. Bathe, spray down, whatever, add product, blow dry, comb out, done. 
Bally hardly has any hair on his ears. Slater hardly grows any excess fur on his feet. Really with Slater his coat is all the same length and straight as an arrow so there's not a lot you have to do with him. Even his tail, you round off the end and there's nothing left to trim. My dog Blade, had this long silky coat and I swear I could cut half an inch off of it every week. They're all different!


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Oh dear Anney, you really need to come to Alaska for our winter shows. You've never seen fur on a golden until you've seen the coat of a golden up here in the winter. My dogs probably wouldn't have any fur if they lived in Florida either!


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

I can only imagine!


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## Redmeadow (Mar 30, 2017)

I think a dog should be judged on shape, size, proportion and if its fit for propose. The coat should be the right colour texture but filthy! Lol. I personally think they should look like the earlier examples of the breed.


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## Anele (Dec 12, 2014)

My daughter (age 15) has started showing our dog-- we haven't been in that many shows yet, and we have zero experience.

But my daughter is taking it very seriously. She practices regularly and took an online course for show grooming goldens. Each show she enters, she challenges herself to groom better than the last.

A few weeks ago, on the first day of the show, we noted that most of the dogs entered looked far more natural than what we've seen at other shows. Even those shown by pros (which, of course, is MOST goldens.) Our dog was one of the more styled dogs.

And you know who the judge picked? Mostly the natural ones! Even over the "big name" dogs that usually win. Our dog did not place. I was surprised that an extremely light-colored dog placed, however, as I didn't think that was within the standard (extremes in light or dark).

We are keeping track of which judges like what! And we are going to start entering UKC shows to experience what it's like to have grooming kept to a minimum.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Redmeadow said:


> I think a dog should be judged on shape, size, proportion and if its fit for propose. The coat should be the right colour texture but filthy! Lol. I personally think they should look like the earlier examples of the breed.


Except judges hate dirty coats. 0

For fun, here's a dirty/clean comparison. Color differences are lighting related mostly. Pictures were taken about a month apart. Pic on right was an early Nov shot. Pic on left was a end of Nov shot. And nobody should judge a dog based on how he's standing on a platform (unless you are tall, it's HARD to set up a dog right. 

Again, nobody who has a good dog should ever worry about showing a dog wet, dirty, etc.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Loved outside shows in pouring rain. Bring it on!


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

This pic from the other post about new to the show ring is a really good example of over grooming to me. My girl has plenty of coat but this looks like clippers were used to even the coat out over the entire dog. Not one frazzled hair anywhere. Of course this pic of Sipsy needs feet & ears but no way the natural body could compare.


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

puddles everywhere said:


> This pic from the other post about new to the show ring is a really good example of over grooming to me. My girl has plenty of coat but this looks like clippers were used to even the coat out over the entire dog. Not one frazzled hair anywhere. Of course this pic of Sipsy needs feet & ears but no way the natural body could compare.


Actually quite achievable w/ product & forced air dryer, no clippers necessary


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

Really?! I have forced air dryer, that's why it's so poofy... it does lay down a little after a while. Wow, I really gotta take a class!


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## FURgirl (Mar 14, 2017)

Flat Iron?! I'm a groomer and never heard of such! What will they think of next, perms?!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Randomness that I was smiling over yesterday... 

We had a little golden confab at a place where I take obedience privates. The lady I train with is a golden breeder, and the person who had the private before me has a gorgeous golden. 

There was a little gossip about some misbehavior by another golden person at a show... which led to the other trainer busting out about seeing the dogs being groomed and presented at shows. 

I interrupted her briefly to kinda tell her that she has a very nice dog who would not need much before being shown. And it was true! I've looked at this girl and she has a very nice coat and look to her. She would need her feet/ears/tail cleaned up before show. All goldens should before being shown. And it is written in the breed standard that neatening up is allowed. 

She would need a bath and blow dry to fresh up her coat and fix an issue on the back caused by the owner. The owner used a furminator on the dog and did a nice job elsewhere, but she touched the back/jacket which you shouldn't do. It caused a noticable dent in the topline. 

You could just put product in the coat to fix the dent, but sometimes baths/blow dries fix all kinds of problems, because you control how the coat flows as you dry it. And it stays like that + you don't have a coat feeling sticky/tacky from hairspray.

Rule of thumb that I've been taught is DON'T USE BLADES OF ANY KIND ON THE TOPLINE. 

When a judge is looking down the lineup, they are looking for level toplines. Any rise or dip is not a good thing, even though both may be caused by the coat. 

A judge can definitely feel whether a topline is great or has problems during the individual exam. And some judges who are concerned about structure will repeat that exam a couple times. 

Standard ring procedure - the judges go out in the middle of the ring to look at all the dogs as a whole and one by one. There are judges who then approach the lineup and go down the line checking expression and even reaching in and checking the backs as they go. 

The dogs are gaited next - which you may have judges watching foot timing for movement, and also watching for other things - including checking the topline during movement. 

The individual exams are next - during which you may have the judges really going over the topline and making sure that it is correct - especially if it's a dog they are considering for other reasons. And this is followed by a down and back where the judge is checking movement to make sure the dog's not really wide or weird coming or going. And this is followed by the dog being gaited around the ring - 3/4 of the way, the judge is closely watching. 

After all dogs have been individually examined, the judge goes out in the middle to look at the dogs from away, viewing them as a whole... and may then go down the line AGAIN to check specific dogs. Going over the backs. 

Some though primarily pick/choose from the center of the ring. So if you have a dog whose fur is creating a visual dip in the topline, or with many - the fur and muscles around the ruff/cape are causing a visual slant in the topline.... that's the last thing the judge sees and checks off before making his decision for placements. 

So grooming does play a role when showing these dogs. 

If you have a good dog who has good substance under the coat - you want the judge to see that. You don't want him stepping back and second guessing what he felt during the individual exam.

^^^ All this stuff went through my head when assuring this woman that all her dog would really need would be a bath and blow dry. Which would take all of 30-45 minutes before showing. 

Her girl looked very similar to what I've seen in the ring and I think would finish pretty quickly without too much extra stuff being done to her coat. This girl did not need any extra product. She had a smooth good coat, good feet, good bone, lovely head, and from what I could tell her was fine in other areas as well.

A lot of people might see the big dogs being shown at Westminster or whatever... and that's a whole different conversation. 

The dog I saw getting his coat straightened - was an 8 year old boy who was looking for his last major. I'm not going to speculate as to the reasons why the flat iron was needed. Flat irons are typically pretty common with the spaniels and setters though.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

The dog in the picture is gorgeous and have to admit just a little jealous! Sometimes I wonder if Sipsy has the right stuff for showing. I don't have the experience to know tail set, head or bone structure, ear placement and obviously short on grooming skills 
I know what I like at the shows, the way they move, the balance in the body and the personality and enjoyment in presenting themselves. This thread has helped me understand all the work that goes into showing a dog and it's fascinating. Thanks for sharing!!


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Anele said:


> My daughter (age 15) has started showing our dog-- we haven't been in that many shows yet, and we have zero experience.
> 
> But my daughter is taking it very seriously. She practices regularly and took an online course for show grooming goldens. Each show she enters, she challenges herself to groom better than the last.
> 
> ...


My breeder told me that when she won breed with one of her dogs, and the judge actually told her is was because she was the only dog out there not overly groomed. 

Curious what type of show this was with more natural a specialty or all breed?


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

One show we went to the dog that won was a very big name dog with a big name handler, and this dog had eyeliner on. I kept looking at its face thinking something is not right, then I realized it was eyeliner, and it was SMUDGED! I was so disappointed. I mentioned it to a friend and she had said there was a lot of makeup going on that day.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

cubbysan said:


> One show we went to the dog that won was a very big name dog with a big name handler, and this dog had eyeliner on. I kept looking at its face thinking something is not right, then I realized it was eyeliner, and it was SMUDGED! I was so disappointed. I mentioned it to a friend and she had said there was a lot of makeup going on that day.


***???? Am I understanding you correctly? A Golden Retriever with eyeliner on ? And not booted out?


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

nolefan said:


> ***???? Am I understanding you correctly? A Golden Retriever with eyeliner on ? And not booted out?


This dog won the breed that day.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Oh my. For once I'm speechless.


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## Anele (Dec 12, 2014)

cubbysan said:


> My breeder told me that when she won breed with one of her dogs, and the judge actually told her is was because she was the only dog out there not overly groomed.
> 
> Curious what type of show this was with more natural a specialty or all breed?


Interesting about your breeder. I will pass that info onto my daughter.

The show I mentioned was all-breed.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Oh sure, we've all seen those dogs with blackener on their noses! Then win breed! Eye liner would take care of the lack of pigment around the eyes. It's brutal out there in the show ring sometimes.

But hey when's the last time you saw a golden retriever removed from the show ring for over/under height, over/under bite, or a horrible temperament? I've never seen it happen.

Every time the judge puts up a dog with this going on, they make the cheating worse. Judges have the ability to stop it. But can you imagine the complaints to AKC that a judge would get if they DQd a dog?


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

Alaska7133 said:


> Oh sure, we've all seen those dogs with blackener on their noses! Then win breed! Eye liner would take care of the lack of pigment around the eyes. It's brutal out there in the show ring sometimes.
> 
> But hey when's the last time you saw a golden retriever removed from the show ring for over/under height, over/under bite, or a horrible temperament? I've never seen it happen.
> 
> Every time the judge puts up a dog with this going on, they make the cheating worse. Judges have the ability to stop it. But can you imagine the complaints to AKC that a judge would get if they DQd a dog?


I have actually seen dogs removed because of height and temperament, but I do not think it happens often enough.


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## TheZ's (Jun 13, 2011)

Are you sure that dog had eyeliner on? I remember at Gracie's CCA an assistant saying to one of the evaluators "She's got lovely pigment around her eyes . . . it looks like eyeliner" and it does but it's all natural.


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

TheZ's said:


> Are you sure that dog had eyeliner on? I remember at Gracie's CCA an assistant saying to one of the evaluators "She's got lovely pigment around her eyes . . . it looks like eyeliner" and it does but it's all natural.


I have a boy that looks to have eyeliner on also.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Kmullen said:


> I have actually seen dogs removed because of height and temperament, but I do not think it happens often enough.


More frequently, I think the dogs with problems just get dumped rather than cause a fuss by kicking a dog out of the ring. 

I have seen a dog kicked out though. I don't know if it was very light coloring that was a problem or if the dog was oversized. But the dog was excused.

The person I was sitting next to said it was one of the two issues above.

*** There ARE judges out there who do not reward dogs with product in the coat or other things. I know because there's a nice pro handler who I've set up with who looked over her shoulder at me when she saw me putting something on my guy (it's a little oil thing to put moisture back into the jacket after blow drying) and warned me not to use powder or other stuff with the judge we were showing under. The oil, she said wouldn't be a problem.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

TheZ's said:


> Are you sure that dog had eyeliner on? I remember at Gracie's CCA an assistant saying to one of the evaluators "She's got lovely pigment around her eyes . . . it looks like eyeliner" and it does but it's all natural.


Yes, in person you can see that the eyeliner was smudged on its upper cheek from probably the humidity, and then there was light shading further down on the face. It looked very weird, and took me a while to figure it out. The dog won breed that day. Next day I did not see the smudging. I have pictures of the dog, and interestingly it does not show up on the pictures. 

I do know everybody does the black nose make up, they even sell it right at the shows.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Tito got a single point at a small show. The dog who was behind us was shown by a professional handler, who more or less got in the judge's face demanding to know why his dog didn't win.
The judge told him "shut up or I'll pull out a wicket. you're lucky all I did was dump you".


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

There is one dog product I used on myself for showing my dog. It was a spray to keep dogs pads from slipping on the mats when they ran around the ring. I used to spray it on my nylon feet inside my shoes so my feet wouldn't slip when I ran around the ring with my dog. There are some really handy products to purchase at dog shows!


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Alaska7133 said:


> There is one dog product I used on myself for showing my dog. It was a spray to keep dogs pads from slipping on the mats when they ran around the ring. I used to spray it on my nylon feet inside my shoes so my feet wouldn't slip when I ran around the ring with my dog. There are some really handy products to purchase at dog shows!


I have seen that one, wondered if it worked. I remember one show that looked like all the dogs were sliding when they went around the ring.

I love when the shows have vendors, it is like being in a candy store.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

hotel4dogs said:


> Tito got a single point at a small show. The dog who was behind us was shown by a professional handler, who more or less got in the judge's face demanding to know why his dog didn't win.
> The judge told him "shut up or I'll pull out a wicket. you're lucky all I did was dump you".


I've literally heard that judges prefer to avoid excusing dogs - and when it's happened, it's usually a judge in a really crappy mood. If that says anything.

My personal feeling is I wish they'd warn handlers privately when something is noticed and they are letting it go but dumping the dog.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Megora said:


> More frequently, I think the dogs with problems just get dumped rather than cause a fuss by kicking a dog out of the ring.
> .


I agree with this, but I am impressed when judges do it for temperament. Chris Calcinari (Polender) kicked out a special fir going after another dog- should happen every time bc if a dog isnt under control IN the actual ring, imagine out?


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

ABSOLUTELY!!! Would like to see dogs who are getting into it outside the ring not allowed in, either!



Ljilly28 said:


> I agree with this, but I am impressed when judges do it for temperament. Chris Calcinari (Polender) kicked out a special fir going after another dog- should happen every time bc if a dog isnt under control IN the actual ring, imagine out?


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

I wonder about some of the other breeds. There's nothing creepier than walking past a row of crates of cane corsos listening to them growl at you and your dog at an all breed show. All you can think is, I hope that crate door is latched tight!


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Alaska7133 said:


> I wonder about some of the other breeds. There's nothing creepier than walking past a row of crates of cane corsos listening to them growl at you and your dog at an all breed show. All you can think is, I hope that crate door is latched tight!


There are some Scottish terriers that we have encountered twice at two different shows. I am assuming they are the same dogs, because I do not think the breed is vicious. My daughter was in the Junior Handler ring, and they were being shown in the ring right next to them, they both started barking, growling and snapping at the dogs in the Junior Handler ring. I have that one on video, I was amazed.  Then at the last show, they were in crates and went ballistic as we walked by.

At the same show, we were standing in a hall waiting for a volunteer to help us find space, a women with three french bull dogs walked by, jumped on and tried to attack Kennedy - now Kennedy was facing the other way, so never made eye contact, the woman just yanked her dog, and continued walking like it was such a common thing. Actually, that show was pretty bad, there were vicious little dogs everywhere - never seen so many like that. Thank goodness it is a rarity in our breed.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

It still amazes me that so many intact and potentially in season dogs, could be in one place at one time, and not have fights. The spaces are tight and the dogs are all on tiny little collars and leashes all walking within an inch of each other. It is always interesting how they all seem to get along and not bother each other for the most part. 

Yet over in the obedience ring we hear of attacks in the long down or sit stays. Last year we had a bad attack in the agility ring outdoors. But in conformation it's rare considering how many more dogs are in the building and how close they are to each other. 

I didn't know how conformation people taught obedience to show dogs for conformation until I took an obedience class with a local pro handler that had her own dog in an obedience class. She had an intact 1 year old male shelty. So the dog was constantly having to be re-directed to the handler's attention. She had a certain way or moving his around to keep him from focusing too hard on the females in the class. Kind of interesting to watch. Food helps of course!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Alaska7133 said:


> It still amazes me that so many intact and potentially in season dogs, could be in one place at one time, and not have fights. The spaces are tight and the dogs are all on tiny little collars and leashes all walking within an inch of each other. It is always interesting how they all seem to get along and not bother each other for the most part.
> 
> Yet over in the obedience ring we hear of attacks in the long down or sit stays. Last year we had a bad attack in the agility ring outdoors. But in conformation it's rare considering how many more dogs are in the building and how close they are to each other.


Conformation dogs are rarely to never off-leash though... and it's a more low stress environment... 

And you do have people whispering warnings to each other outside the ring about certain dogs. Attacks might happen if the dogs were permitted to get into each other's faces or followed too closely. 

You have a lot of handlers being super conscious of keeping boys from getting into each other's faces. There are little to no incidences because people do take extra precautions, even when the dogs are trustworthy.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Marie, Scotties are notorious for dog aggression. 

Goldens are hunting dogs. I do hunt with Tito (hunt test games are a whole different scenario).
When dogs are out in the field, there are generally several. They are, for the most part, all intact. No one is on a leash.
Those dogs had darned well better get along okay. No snarkiness, and no resource guarding crap over the birds, which are, of course, a very high value resource.
It is in their heritage to get along, including (maybe even especially) with other intact males. It is totally incorrect to see otherwise, and saddens me greatly when I do.
That which makes them wonderful hunting companions also makes them wonderful family pets, and needs to be preserved in the breed.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

hotel4dogs said:


> Marie, Scotties are notorious for dog aggression.
> 
> Goldens are hunting dogs. I do hunt with Tito (hunt test games are a whole different scenario).
> When dogs are out in the field, there are generally several. They are, for the most part, all intact. No one is on a leash.
> ...


I did not realize that with Scotties. Never really cared for any type of terriers.

The golden, I think, is one of the few breeds that can adapt itself into any type of lifestyle. They are just totally amazing.


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## Audog (Mar 17, 2017)

puddles everywhere said:


> This pic from the other post about new to the show ring is a really good example of over grooming to me. My girl has plenty of coat but this looks like clippers were used to even the coat out over the entire dog. Not one frazzled hair anywhere. Of course this pic of Sipsy needs feet & ears but no way the natural body could compare.
> 
> View attachment 726297
> View attachment 726305


The dog in the winner pix looks like a photoshopped dog to me, however Sipsy looks GREAT. She so reminds me of a Golden I had of years past, Sutter (named after Sutters Mill where Gold was first "discovered" in California). They could have been siblings. Gorgeous dog you have there.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

Thanks I think Sipsy is awesome but I'm a little biased  She is truly a gentle soul and an equal opportunity shedding machine!
BTW I LOVE the name Sutter! Who knows... maybe they are cousins!


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