# ichthyosis could this be it?



## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Looks like it could be. I would DNA test the dog to be sure.


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## JBJ Goldens (Dec 16, 2012)

Swampcollie thank you yeah I am going to be sending the test out very soon. I just didn't know what the best supplements to get him started on would be as well as shampoos was going to order a few from my dog grooming supplier for bad skin. I also believe my poor boy has hip dysplasia he has all the signs and my vet agreed we need to x ray him but taking him to a vet that does hundreds of ofa x rays a year to get those x rays hopefully this Friday since they are quite a drive from me. I love this boy with all my heart and he is truly my heart dog. Mom and dad where both health tested for hips mom came back fair from a long line of fair to fair breeding (didn't look deep enough other then that they had clearances prior to buying him) and dad has ofa good hips. 

Jana


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## rooroch (Nov 7, 2012)

This looks like Ichthyosis. There is a thread on here call Ichthyosis...5 years and counting where you can get a lot of information about food, supplements, shampoos, skin treatments that we have all tried with quite good results.
My dog Grit has confirmed ichthyosis and I am controlling it as mentioned in that thread.
It is true that fish oil is very helpful but there are other oils you can give. I give mine in a capsule form, maybe you can cope with that if you don't touch it.
Your puppy does not know he has this problem and it is not uncomfortable for him and he will lead a perfectly normal happy life. 
Maybe check his thyroid levels as this often comes with Ichthy. He is a bit young to have thyroid problems, but maybe a good idea to check.
Sorry to hear he may have HD too at such a young age. I hope not.
Good luck


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

yes, looks like classic ichthyosis.
Are you allergic to krill? Krill oil might be another possibility?


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## JBJ Goldens (Dec 16, 2012)

hotel4dogs said:


> yes, looks like classic ichthyosis.
> Are you allergic to krill? Krill oil might be another possibility?


Yes Krill oil is fine its just salmon that I have a issue with. I don't know why but even if its in their food I can not feed it or I break out big time and itch non stop and break out with hives. If I ever ingest salmon I would be dead but all other fish I am fine with. 

Jana


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## JBJ Goldens (Dec 16, 2012)

RooRoch thank you just found that one and am reading through that thread. Thank you for the info I am hoping he doesn't have hip dysplasia but I really do believe he does. 

Jana


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Jana, my boy gets 1000 mg a day of Krill oil (not for ichthyosis but because he has been Lyme positive), he weighs just under 70 pounds, so that might be something you could pursue with your vet?


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## JBJ Goldens (Dec 16, 2012)

hotel4dogs said:


> Jana, my boy gets 1000 mg a day of Krill oil (not for ichthyosis but because he has been Lyme positive), he weighs just under 70 pounds, so that might be something you could pursue with your vet?


Hotel4Dogs thank you so much will talk to our vet about putting him on Krill oil I will be sending out the test as soon as I can but am getting him in next week for hip x rays due to his suspected hip dysplasia also so cant do both tests this payday. I love this boy and he is my total heart dog so just want to do all I can to help him live as comfortably and happy as I can. 

Jana


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## JBJ Goldens (Dec 16, 2012)

So I am reading the Ichthyosis 5 years and counting post and finding tons of good info is it normal for a dog with Ichthyosis to be smelly? I ask because our boy has smelled horribly since we got him if we don't bathe him weekly we cant stand the smell its that bad. I am just wondering is this another sign of Ichthyosis?

Jana


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## annef (Feb 23, 2008)

If he smells I would get him tested for a yeast infection. Annef


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## annef (Feb 23, 2008)

Pressed too soon! If it is yeast skin problem then we have a shampoo called Malaseb which is really good but is possibly sold under another name in the US. Annef


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

It is Malaseb in the US.


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## JBJ Goldens (Dec 16, 2012)

I don't think its a yeast infection but do have some veterinary medicated yeast infection shampoo that a client ended up not taking with them when they left that I could try on him. I am a dog groomer I could try that on him but have seen tons of yeast infections and its not the same type of smell its just a bad doggy odor. 

Jana


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## rooroch (Nov 7, 2012)

I know what you mean. This has now all gone from Grit since he has been eating Acana Pacifica again for several months. I know you cannot feed this because of the salmon but maybe there is some other food without fish you could try that would help the ichthyosis and his skin in general.
It was just trial and error for me. I do not know why I tried grain free, but think that this helps, so maybe a grain free is the way to go.
I have already mentioned the Hibitan. It is not a shampoo but an antiseptic. I dilute it at least 1:20 and dab it on the smelly bits until they are quite wet and then dab it off with clean paper towel. It worked for Grit on his lower chest almost between his front legs where he smelt very doggy!! I only did it 2 or 3 times a week for about 4 weeks and have never had to use it again.
He has a very thick coat and I brush with a small slicker every day to keep the hair well separated so that the air can get in.
How did the hip xrays go?


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Some dogs with Ichthy do get a funny smell about them because there is an issue witht he lipid barrier in the skin. Using a tar-based shampoo like T-Gel for those weekly baths can also help in controlling the issue. If the DNA test comes back as not Ichthy, then I would be looking at having a full thyroid panel done as thyroid issues can also manifest in skin conditions. But these symptoms do look more Ichthy-like.


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## rooroch (Nov 7, 2012)

I have never yet bathed Grit as I cannot get him in or out of my huge cast iron free standing bath. I live on my own, aged 64, and he weighs 88 lbs!!
The only "wash" he gets is from lying in the river every day and an occasional sponge down with warm water if he is muddy.
I think the food and the spot ons I use (allerderm and essential 6) have helped his lipid barrier. Particularly the allerderm which I now do 2 times a month with essential 6 alternately 2 times a month.
Touch wood I have not had the really strong smell for a few weeks now.


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## JBJ Goldens (Dec 16, 2012)

RooRoch I am ordering some of the Hibitan since I can not find it locally he has been on nutri source grain free bison formula but its getting worse so might try something else I am also limited in that we are a very small town and the closest town that sells decent dog food is 35 miles away and even that one isn't huge so not a huge selection that doesn't have salmon or salmon oil in it unfortunately. I did have him on TOTW but he did not do well on that and lost a ton of weight on it and has been loosing on the nutri source so may switch to something else just not sure what yet since his coat is worse on the grain free I have him on now. I also have a coat supplement that's good for dogs with cushings so figure it cant hurt him to give him that also so will be starting that tomorrow. 

Thanks for asking about his hip x rays due to the vet I was suppose to see having a family emergency we had to reschedule hoping to get him in this next Friday but not sure since we are going on vacation that day for four days so might end up being the Friday after that. I am traveling an hour and a half since that's the closest vet that does OFA x rays and knows what they are doing but they only do them in the mornings now and so with my son in school the only day I can do that is Fridays was really hoping to get him in this past Friday. Will post pics since they do digital x rays and I will get them on cd so will post pics when I get them back. Thank you for asking. 

Jana


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## JBJ Goldens (Dec 16, 2012)

Here is a picture of my sweet boy taken yesterday he was looking ahead till he heard the door close and realized I was out there I snapped this pic just as he was turning his head to look my way and then head over to get his loves he is my total shadow I just love this boy so much he is such a sweet sweet dog. Don't mind my grass I haven't been able to cut it in a week and a half due to huge rain storms all day long everyday the past week.


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## JBJ Goldens (Dec 16, 2012)

This boy is very closely related to my old golden on his dads side and they look a lot alike but man couldn't be different health wise Sierra never had a sick day in her life this boy is my problem child but I wouldn't trade him for the world I love this dog he is my total heart dog if I am having a bad day he is the one who curls in my lap and just lays there doesn't demand attention or anything just wants to be with me. This is my old girl Sierra at 2 years of age.











Jana


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

What lovely pups!

I second the motion for a thyroid test if the ichthyosis test comes back negative.


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## Darthsadier (May 17, 2013)

My five and a half month old pup also has this. Right now we use a spot on treatment called Allerderm as well as sulphur baths and oatmeal conditioner. Since we started the treatment last week her skin has greatly improved. Best of luck. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## JBJ Goldens (Dec 16, 2012)

TippyKayak we will run a thyroid was thinking of running one anyways since he has had some issues with holding weight also, and the vet agreed when I told them over the phone so when he gets in next will be running that. He is such a sweet boy and my heart boy. I love your guys in your picture on here also. Thank you for the compliments on my goldens I just love both of them but have to admit that my boy is my heart dog. He is just a total sweetheart love and such an easy going guy he loves to play but all I have to say is settle and he just lays either on my lap or at my feet. 

Jana


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## JBJ Goldens (Dec 16, 2012)

Darthsadier thank you I haven't had to use a topical flea for awhile on him and my house is clean of fleas so far but I use some when I need them so will look into that one also. 

Jana


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## rooroch (Nov 7, 2012)

Allerderm is not for fleas. It is a spot on especially for dog's with problem skin. It helps restore the lipid barrier. It does not mention fish oil and does not smell at all. It is made by virbac and sold all over the world.

* The easy-to-use topical barrier repair therapy.*

ALLERDERM® SPOT-ON Skin Lipid Complex is formulated for use in topical skin care for dogs and cats with damaged or compromised skin. It is formulated to provide adjunct therapy for pets with skin disease.


 *Proven to help repair and restore the epidermal barrier* in canine and feline patients suffering from skin disease.1
 *Moisturizes and protects skin.* Contains Skin Lipid Complex, an exclusive blend of ceramides and fatty acids similar to those found in normal, healthy feline and canine skin.
 *Convenient, simple topical therapy.* Administration requires only a few drops from a small, easy-to-use applicator.
 Available in packages of 6 pipettes in 2 mL and 4 mL sizes.
 I find this helps, but he also has extra omega 3 & omega 6 capsules (fish oil I am afraid) as well. 
All of these different things seem to help a lot.
It is really trial and error as far as the food is concerned and this can be expensive to do and also upsetting for the dog's stomach.
Please do get the thyroid tested as the others suggest and this could then be ruled out if negative.
He looks really sweet and don't worry about your grass, you should see mine. It has rained now for a week and everything is growing like crazy.
Good luck


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## JBJ Goldens (Dec 16, 2012)

RooRoch ok when I thought of topicals I thought of flea stuff so will look into it thanks for the extra info. I just started him on flaxy dog coat supplement its an omega supplement so hoping that this helps also yesterday was our first day trying it so will let you know what improvements I see. Thank you all for all the advice and help I don't mind the flakes but want him to be comfortable and he is itchy right now. 

Jana


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## UplandHntr (Feb 24, 2011)

Mine has it and yours sure looks like it. 2-3 fish oil pills daily as it doesnt show or bother him at all. Dont freak about it!


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

Jana, just wondering why you think he has hip dysplasia?? If you don't have the money for an x-ray, the best thing you can do is to keep him fit and muscular in his hind end as well as preventing from him becoming too overweight.


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## goldengirls550 (Jun 12, 2008)

Hi Jana, my boy is Ichthyosis affected, but you cannot even tell. Here is what I have done: I give a very generous amount of salmon oil on his food every morning. I saw you are highly allergic to salmon oil, so maybe you should try krill oil if you can tolerate that. Any wild fish oil that is high in Omega 3s is a good bet. You could also try coconut oil. I supplement my girl's diet with coconut oil. Although she does not have ICH, she lost all of her coat one summer due to a food allergy and her hypothyroidism. The coconut oil really helped regrow her coat quickly, and it came in so thick! Make sure it is virgin coconut oil. The refined does not have the nutritional value.

You can also try biotin. Biotin is a B vitamin and it is great for skin and coat health. My girl still gets biotin to maintain coat health.

Regular bathing with kerato-regulating shampoos and emollient sprays can greatly reduce the flaking. My boy used to flake quite frequently when younger, but I was told that he would likely grow out of it because neither of his parents show any signs of ICH. My favorite shampoo is Duoxo Seborrhea shampoo. It has a wonderful clean scent and I noticed dramatic reduction in flaking the first time I used it. I have tried a few other brands when I couldn't find Duoxo in stores, but NOTHING compares to it. I just order it online when I am out now: Amazon.com: Douxo Seborrhea Shampoo - 16.9 ounce: Pet Supplies

Duoxo also makes an emollient spray, but I never had the need for it. My boy's ICH symptoms cleared up in the first 4-5 months of his life. I bathed him pretty regularly when he was younger and have always stuck to a strict salmon oil regimen. I think that was the key to our success. He has absolutely no symptoms now. I gave him a thorough brushing today and no flakes!!

Best of luck to you!

Emily


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## JBJ Goldens (Dec 16, 2012)

MaddieMagoo said:


> Jana, just wondering why you think he has hip dysplasia?? If you don't have the money for an x-ray, the best thing you can do is to keep him fit and muscular in his hind end as well as preventing from him becoming too overweight.


I believe he has it due to his gait he only bunny hops when running and before trying glucosamine on him he could not trot at all it has improved with the glucosamine though. He also is extremely weak in the rear end with no real muscle mass at all and never has had any he has had the weak rear and weird gate since we got him at 8 weeks old but at the time I thought it was because the weather was so bad that he hadn't been outside much and had been living in the garage in a 12X10 whelping box.

I have video of his lameness and weakness. He also we took him on a hike that was not very long at all and super slow paced and the next day he couldn't even walk he was so sore and lame. He cant play more then about 10 minutes with our other dogs or he gets tired and lame. He got blown over by a 10 mph wind gust due to lack of muscle mass on his rear so all this is why I am thinking he has hip dysplasia. 


I can afford the x rays its just been a pain the ortho surgeon had an unexpected family emergency and he was going to meet with me also due to the fact I am driving an hour and a half each way to go see this particular vet since they do more ofa x rays then any vet anywhere else half the vets in my area if I ask if they do OFA x rays I am asked what that is. I also am having issues because it used to be you could get those done anytime now they only want to do the x rays in the mornings when a certain tech is there and unfortunately due to my sons school schedule and the drive time to the vet and back the only days I can do it are Fridays, and the past two have been swamped I am out of town right now in fact and heading home tomorrow. 

Jana


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## JBJ Goldens (Dec 16, 2012)

Goldengirls550, 
Emily thank you for the info will try that shampoo and I have put him on a omega 3 and 6 supplement that isn't fish oil and that does already seem to be helping him I just cant do salmon I know its great for them but unfortunately I just cant do any salmon oil and if this doesn't work will try krill oil out. I hadn't heard about the coconut oil so will look into that also. 

Jana


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

JBJ Goldens said:


> I believe he has it due to his gait he only bunny hops when running and before trying glucosamine on him he could not trot at all it has improved with the glucosamine though. He also is extremely weak in the rear end with no real muscle mass at all and never has had any he has had the weak rear and weird gate since we got him at 8 weeks old but at the time I thought it was because the weather was so bad that he hadn't been outside much and had been living in the garage in a 12X10 whelping box.
> 
> I have video of his lameness and weakness. He also we took him on a hike that was not very long at all and super slow paced and the next day he couldn't even walk he was so sore and lame. He cant play more then about 10 minutes with our other dogs or he gets tired and lame. He got blown over by a 10 mph wind gust due to lack of muscle mass on his rear so all this is why I am thinking he has hip dysplasia.
> 
> ...


First off, I'm so sorry to hear about your boy  I would definitely find someone who is more familiar with OFA and can position the hips REALLY good, to make sure that he isn't diagnosed with HD because of poor positioning. 

I would love to see the video of him going lame, if you don't mind sharing? It may not be HD, it could be some type of muscle condition he has. I hope you get some answers soon, I'm so sorry he has to go through this (you too!)


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## JBJ Goldens (Dec 16, 2012)

MaddieMagoo said:


> First off, I'm so sorry to hear about your boy  I would definitely find someone who is more familiar with OFA and can position the hips REALLY good, to make sure that he isn't diagnosed with HD because of poor positioning.
> 
> I would love to see the video of him going lame, if you don't mind sharing? It may not be HD, it could be some type of muscle condition he has. I hope you get some answers soon, I'm so sorry he has to go through this (you too!)


Yeah I wanted a good vet with OFA's which is why I am going to this vet but since they are so far away have had some issues getting into them but hoping this Friday now that we are back home we can get him in need to call them tomorrow if not this Friday will for sure get him in the next week since I believe my son gets out of school that week so will have more time. 

Here are a few videos its super hard for me to get video since he is such a Velcro dog and always by me but you can see some. I am wondering though with the improvement I have seen in just over a week and a half on glucosamine if it might not have been pano or my other thought was possibly CNM muscle wise since he does not have much muscle mass but I don't know if that is just labs or if its in goldens also I couldn't find any for sure cases in goldens but wasn't sure if it could be there. 





 

Don't mind my grass in this one this was in april and I hadn't been able to mow yet due to the rain. He was very hesitant to get up on the pause table I have in the back yard and you can see when he moves around it he almost falls over due to how weak his backend is he also bunny hops when he runs. 





 
Given my grass is tall in this one also but this is how he bunny hops even on short grass. 




 
Here is one I tried to do with him gaiting on lead.




 
This was was taken on the 31rst after being on glucosamine for a week and a half. 





 
Jana


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

I know I'm not an expert on structure of dogs and you can't tell if a dog has HD just by looking at them, but, I do think he is in that gangly puppy stage and it's hard to tell what it could be. My other thought is that it might be something with his hocks. Again, I'm no expert, but that's just my thoughts.


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## JBJ Goldens (Dec 16, 2012)

Maddie Magoo I am praying its just pano and nothing serious but am still concerned about it possibly being HD I am hoping and praying its not as I do not want my boy to have it but am still concerned these videos don't show him at his worst and unfortunately the day after our hike I didn't think to get it on video but it was really bad. I just love this dog with all my heart he is such a sweet boy and so loving and easy going boy he has a total service dog temperament.


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

Let us all know what the x-rays say! Hoping for the best for you guys.


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

Yea, there is something funky going on. Does he ever have trouble getting up? Something is weird with hocks, I agree. Might be a growing thing, might not!

Good luck and sending positive thoughts.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

There appears to be some instability. CCL tear?


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## JBJ Goldens (Dec 16, 2012)

Swampcollie he is very unstable back there but I think its just due to no muscle mass I have never and I have owned dogs my whole life have three in my house right now had a dog with this much lack of muscle mass he has pretty much no muscles at all back there. Its pretty much just skin over bone I can feel all his bones back there with no muscles over them at all. 

Kfayard yes he is very stiff getting up and going down and he does a sideways sit a lot have never seen him have a clean sit. He also in these videos was not at his worst at his worst he couldn't even hardly move but I was so concerned with how he was doing I didn't get video. The best way to explain how he walks normally is like if you where riding a horse all day and very saddle sore so you are bow legging it that's about how he walks all the time and if he goes for a walk no matter how small or over exerts himself he will be limping and extremely sore and almost two legged lame since both back legs are extremely sore and painful. 

MaddieMagoo thank you and I will for sure let you know what the x rays say. 

Jana


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

You're quite welcome, Jana. I just hope you find some answers! It's always so hard to see our dogs in pain and we can't ask them what hurts...if only they could speak.


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## JBJ Goldens (Dec 16, 2012)

Maddie Magoo yes its been extremely hard for me to watch him in pain even though he is so stoic and has never whined or complained just been an amazing dog through it all. I love this boy so much he is totally my heart dog and it is breaking my heart I have cried every night worried about him he does seem to be much better since I started him on flaxy dog coat supplement and the Cosaquin glucosamine he is running and playing and for the first time starting to trot so seems to be much better the longer he is on the glucosamine. He played for over an hour the past two days with no signs of lameness or soreness he still has the funky gait but no real limping after playing like he was having so I am hoping and praying it was just a bad case of pano or something minor going on. He is my constant companion and is with me 24/7. 

Jana


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

Great news! When is the vet appointment for the two of you?


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## JBJ Goldens (Dec 16, 2012)

MaddieMagoo said:


> Great news! When is the vet appointment for the two of you?


Friday the 14th is when he goes in will let you know what the vet says then. I am just thrilled with how he is doing though so far even if it is hip dysplasia at least he can play now today he sprinted as fast as he could back and forth through our yard and ran and played for over an hour straight and is not sore at all  

Jana


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