# Muzzling



## Snoop Bobb (Aug 11, 2011)

As a last resort, is it acceptable to muzzle your pup to prevent leash biting / tugging on walks, and to ensure that the pup doesn't wreak havoc in the house when you can't tend to him?

Before anyone blows a gasket and scorches me for this question: I totally understand that muzzling is a suboptimal solution, and that regular training and patience are generally a better way to go. But, we have some exceptional circumstances, with which I hope you can empathize:

My wife and I have an 11-mo-old golden retriever and a 4-mo baby (human...) girl. The pup went through an extensive 4-week puppy training program, and I continue to work with him on his training each and every day. But, he still has a long way to go before anyone could mistake him for a well-behaved dog. For instance, he still periodically bites / tugs on his leash when he's being walked. (It's playful biting and tugging, and he clearly does it when he gets excited or bored on his walks.) And, although we make an effort to put the baby's stuff (blankets, bibs, etc.) in places that the pup can't reach, the pup thinks it's a fun game to try to get the baby's stuff, and run around with it and chew on it. 

When I'm at home, I'm able to manage the dog ok through the various techniques that we were taught in training. The leash biting / tugging is obviously annoying, but it's managable for me. 

That said, I just finished my family leave two days ago, and my wife must now manage both the baby and the pup alone while I'm at work. My wife has exceedingly limited time to walk the dog before she needs to manage the baby's needs (feeding, changing, screaming, etc.), and when she walks the dog, she needs to walk the baby in the stroller. So, when the dog bites and tugs on the leash, my wife needs to move the stroller to a safe place, stop the walk, and manage the dog using the techniques that we've been taught -- which in turn takes time and increases the likelihood that the baby will start going crazy before my wife gets home from the walk. After a couple of attempts, it's just too much for my wife to manage, so she just leaves the dog in his kennel in the garage and walks the baby through the neighborhood.

THEN, because the dog hasn't had sufficient exercise, he's a bundle of energy inside the house. And, my wife can't manage the dog if she's breast feeding the baby or changing the baby. So, again, her alternative has been to put the dog in his kennel in the garage. 

Given these exceptional circumstances, I'm just wondering whether a muzzle would be a better alternative for the dog than leaving him in his kennel for most of the day. He'd get to bond with my wife, and chill inside the house.

Any thoughts? Thanks so much for your time and advice.


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## Oaklys Dad (Dec 28, 2005)

Leash biting and tugging is not the end of the world. I don't think it is worth muzzling over. Have you tried some bitter apple on the leash? 4 weeks is a pretty quick puppy class. I would suggest you look for a more advanced class. Hope you share some pictures of your pup.


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## nixietink (Apr 3, 2008)

Snoop Bobb said:


> As a last resort, is it acceptable to muzzle your pup to prevent leash biting / tugging on walks, and to ensure that the pup doesn't wreak havoc in the house when you can't tend to him?
> 
> Before anyone blows a gasket and scorches me for this question: I totally understand that muzzling is a suboptimal solution, and that regular training and patience are generally a better way to go. But, we have some exceptional circumstances, with which I hope you can empathize:
> 
> ...


A couple thoughts:

1. My dog is almost 4 and to this day he still grabs enjoys grabbing inappropriate items and running around like an idiot. It is a fun game for him, why should he stop? And honestly, I enjoy his exuberance over a sock. I know lots of goldens that do this and never stop.

2. Why don't you walk him before you go to work? That way he is properly exercised. 

3. Stock up on Kongs. Put a bunch of stuff inside like yogurt, bananas, peanut butter, kibble soaked in water, etc. Freeze them. When the puppy is being a bundle of energy, give him a kong. Perfect time killer. Also invest in some interactive food toys. 

4. I wouldn't muzzle him. I personally know that my dog would hate having it on his face...plus, as you said, it is just putting a band-aid on the problem. 

5. Continue obedience classes. 4 weeks of training is nothing. Consistency and time is key.

Babies and dogs are a lot of work.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

No. Muzzling is not an acceptable alternative to anything that you are experiencing. Especially not when you are not home - a muzzle left on any dog, let alone a young puppy, is dangerous.


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## BriGuy (Aug 31, 2010)

Sounds like a job for the Gentle Leader:

Gentle Leader Product Description - Premier Pet


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## rhondas (Sep 10, 2010)

In my humble opinion it is totally unacceptable to muzzle a puppy for what is absolutely normal puppy behavior. 
There are other threads that provide advice on how help with an issue like this.

One suggestion is to bring along treats or a toy to keep your focused on the walk and not on the leash. If he likes to carry a ball or toy in general, have him carry it on the walk. I know folks who do this and the dog is completely focused on just walking.

A young dog needs adequate exercise and can't stay in a house all day doing nothing or being kenneled. Can your wife play in the yard with the dog?

Have you thought about sending the puppy to Doggy Daycare so he can get exercise and playtime with other dogs? or hiring someone to walk the Dog during the day?

If none of these alternatives are possible you might need to ask yourself if the dog needs to be rehomed so that he is provided the attention and exercise he needs because it doesn't seem like you and your wife have the time and kenneling a dog most the day as you state in your post is really not an ideal situation. There is nothing wrong with admitting this because it is not easy raising a puppy with an infant or with young children.
It's almost like having two children.


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## Snoop Bobb (Aug 11, 2011)

All: Thanks for your thoughtful responses. I tried to respond to each of your questions and to clarify some apparent misperceptions about our situation and the dog's training background (which is actually rather extensive). But, my session apparently timed out, I was prompted to re-log in -- and I lost all of my $%# content! I won't be able to re-draft everything tonight. But, please realize that I appreciate your time and feedback. To the extent that we haven't already tried some of your suggestions, we'll definitely try them. Thank you. 

One quick comment and follow-up question, though: I know nothing about the side effects and impact of muzzling, and I've never even seen a dog in person that was wearing a muzzle. All I know is that a muzzle serves to keep a dog's mouth closed -- and given that our most immediate issue with our dog is with his biting-related behavior, intuitively, I thought that a muzzle *might* be a short-term fix to our problem. I was totally open to the possibility that it's a terrible idea, which is precisely why I visited this forum and requested your feedback.

That said, would someone mind spelling out for me what the specific problems and dangers are with muzzling? One of you generally stated that muzzling is dangerous. And, it's evident that many more of you think that muzzling is oppressive or inhumane. You might all be absolutely right -- but, none of you explained why. And, maybe it's the early-fatherhood sleep deprivation, but it isn't self-evident for me how muzzling would be dangerous during a 30-minute walk in the neighborhood. (Mind you, again, I'm not disagreeing with any of those points. Just trying to understand.)

Thanks again for your time.


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## Sophie_Mom (Jan 21, 2009)

Are we (my husband and I) the only ones that think it's ADORABLE when Sawyer "walks himself" by holding onto the leash with his mouth? And the excitement, ohhhh, the excitement of the twice a day walk, like he never expected that he'd ever be so lucky that he must jump up to grab the leash and prance around with it! Are we odd for oooo'ing and awww'ing at this behavior??? 

I think it's awful (sorry) to contemplate putting a muzzle on your puppy. Goldens are VERY mouthy - something I'm sure you found in your research when deciding to get a Golden puppy when your wife was pregnant. They love holding their "prizes" in their mouths and prancing about. A puppy and a baby is surely a juggling act, but I guess it is what you signed on for. I think it's cruel to consider muzzling your puppy for completely normal and what should have been expected behavior. As someone else suggested, provide appropriate things for the puppy to chew on and hold in his mouth. Be ready to offer "trades" for things that aren't appropriate.

I'd let him hold his leash or a stuffy or a ball during walks - What's the harm?


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## Blondie (Oct 10, 2009)

I realize you are going back to work and your wife is busy with the baby. I don't want to come across as insensitive, however, did you and your wife really think things through with getting a puppy at this point in your life? I have seen time and time again dogs posted on Craigslist that, "we don't have the time for him/her, we have a new baby and can't manage, etc." Not passing judgement here, just wondering. I too had a point where Maggie brought on thoughts of muzzling, however we managed to get through that period. I would suggest a dog walker, perhaps a retired, abled bodied person in your neighborhood and/or a responsible teenager for after school. You will need a solution that is aggreeable to both you and your wife. Are you willing to get up earlier to walk the dog before work? How long is your commute? Lots to think about. Can you come home from work at lunch time and take care of the dog with some outdoor fetch and a Chuck-it, to help wind down your pup? Maybe your wife has a stay at home mom friend who can share in a trade off of sorts? The friend watches your baby, so your wife can attend to the puppy in exchange for reciprocation of sorts? I wish you the best.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Snoop Bobb said:


> All: Thanks for your thoughtful responses. I tried to respond to each of your questions and to clarify some apparent misperceptions about our situation and the dog's training background (which is actually rather extensive). But, my session apparently timed out, I was prompted to re-log in -- and I lost all of my $%# content! I won't be able to re-draft everything tonight. But, please realize that I appreciate your time and feedback. To the extent that we haven't already tried some of your suggestions, we'll definitely try them. Thank you.
> 
> One quick comment and follow-up question, though: I know nothing about the side effects and impact of muzzling, and I've never even seen a dog in person that was wearing a muzzle. All I know is that a muzzle serves to keep a dog's mouth closed -- and given that our most immediate issue with our dog is with his biting-related behavior, intuitively, I thought that a muzzle *might* be a short-term fix to our problem. I was totally open to the possibility that it's a terrible idea, which is precisely why I visited this forum and requested your feedback.
> 
> ...


 
I have seen dogs "dig" at a muzzle - paws caught in them. I've seen them injure their eyes attempting to get them off. I've seen dogs who have gotten the muzzle caught on something and in a frantic attempt to free themselves they have been injured. Muzzles are not meant to be on for anything either than short term use (ie for a vet exam, or, if a dog is a biter, when being walked WITH THE OWNER. And "biter" does NOT mean puppy mouthing/nipping.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Sophie_Mom said:


> Are we (my husband and I) the only ones that think it's ADORABLE when Sawyer "walks himself" by holding onto the leash with his mouth? And the excitement, ohhhh, the excitement of the twice a day walk, like he never expected that he'd ever be so lucky that he must jump up to grab the leash and prance around with it! Are we odd for oooo'ing and awww'ing at this behavior???
> 
> I think it's awful (sorry) to contemplate putting a muzzle on your puppy. Goldens are VERY mouthy - something I'm sure you found in your research when deciding to get a Golden puppy when your wife was pregnant. They love holding their "prizes" in their mouths and prancing about. A puppy and a baby is surely a juggling act, but I guess it is what you signed on for. I think it's cruel to consider muzzling your puppy for completely normal and what should have been expected behavior. As someone else suggested, provide appropriate things for the puppy to chew on and hold in his mouth. Be ready to offer "trades" for things that aren't appropriate.
> 
> I'd let him hold his leash or a stuffy or a ball during walks - What's the harm?


I do not allow dogs to "carry" their leads, as "cute" as it is. It can create problems later - we do show, and so it's not acceptable. Carrying a toy or other article is a better alternative, but really, they do need to learn to walk nicely without. All that said, a muzzle is just not appropriate, and it's an attempt at an "instant fix" when patience and training are what is really needed.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

The soft muzzles are not designed to allow the dog to pant and can cause overheating... I second a gentle leader for walking. I have to say, however, that when my Tiki tried to kill her liver by eating iris rhizomes many years ago, I bought her a basket muzzle like greyhounds wear, to prevent it. She was quick and sneaky. She did not mind it, and she could still bark and pant! Eventually she outgrew her fascination with the irises. And I do recommend basket muzzles to clients who have aggressive dogs and get stressed out when walking them. You can train a golden to not grab its' leash, but what you need is the time and energy to work with it.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

I think the solution to your problems is a dog walker or dog day care. I totally understand that a 4 month old child does not allow your wife time to deal with a mouthy puppy. I do think you need to commit to walking him when you come home.

I am also concerned about the kennel in the garage. Where do you live? What are the temperatures in your area, and what is the temperature in the garage? It is very dangerous to leave a dog for hours in high temperatures. My garage is always much hotter than the outside temperature. Please move his kennel inside the house.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Honestly speaking... I think this is why people with small children generally aren't allowed to buy or adopt puppies. Because they do need time and extended training (the training does not stop after the classes; it begins with the classes). And they need patience and a steady hand. 

I'm not really somebody to push muzzles and gentle leaders for walking. I don't like either. 

You could walk the dog in the morning before you go to work and again at night. And only ask your wife to feed the dog and let the dog outside in the backyard for potty and back inside again a few times a day. 

The alternative is you walk the dog in the morning and then stay home and watch the baby in the evening while your wife can get out of the house and away from the baby for a walk with the dog. 

You guys need to work together as a team on this. 

As far as the dog grabbing the leash. I don't allow it. If my dog is being mouthy on a walk, I generally bring a toy for him to carry or I hand him a stick. 

And further than that - keep in mind that while your dog is young, he is going to be a complete idiot while walking. There's a lot of smells and sights to get him excited and worked up. That's why I shaking my head about your wife multitasking with both a stroller and the dog's leash. Walking a dog requires two hands and time. 

And I second bringing the dog inside. I know somebody who kept their dogs in the garage. The dog smelled musty and was in danger of getting poisoned from any leaks from their car.


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## Sophie_Mom (Jan 21, 2009)

I totally see why that would be inappropriate for dogs that are shown. Our Sawyer is just a goofy, silly pet - We shall continue to enjoy his antics.  

He also does really well with "drop it" if we need him to let go. 



Pointgold said:


> I do not allow dogs to "carry" their leads, as "cute" as it is. It can create problems later - we do show, and so it's not acceptable. Carrying a toy or other article is a better alternative, but really, they do need to learn to walk nicely without. All that said, a muzzle is just not appropriate, and it's an attempt at an "instant fix" when patience and training are what is really needed.


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

I'd suggest enrolling in another training class for dogs a little older. Dogs, like people, need to be challenged or else their mental thinking can go a little downhill. Plus puppy training isn't the same as basic obedience classes for older dogs and I think your boy is at the stage for the next level of training. Kudos for taking him to puppy classes and following through on training! It's obvious you want the best for your dog and for the other members of your family.

Leash biting: Bitter apple spray or a chain leash should stop the grabbing of a leash on a walk. If he doesn't know the command, "leave it" or "drop" I would spend time at home teaching him that, then use it on a walk when he tries to grab the leash. Have your wife carry some easy to reach treats so when given the cue, "leave it" or "drop it" and he does, he gets a reward. Also, how's your wife holding the leash and the stroller? I read somewhere that the best way to walk a dog and push a stroller is to have the handle of the leash in the right hand and then the other part in the left hand so the leash is lying across the top of the stroller's handle. There's better control and grip this way. You'll probably need a 6 ft leash to do it, though (if you don't have one already). 

Another thing is to make the walks more interesting by challenging the dog. Walking slow with a stroller = boring. He might be grabbing the leash because he's trying to bump up his fun factor. Start making him use his brain a little more on walks. If he heels nicely 90% of the time, have your wife change her pace constantly. From real slow, toe to toe walking to super fast walking. Sudden changes of pace will keep your dog on his toes. She could also stop every 15-20 feet and get your dog to sit. Start teaching him automatic sits so when the person walking him stops, his butt hits the ground without needing the sit cue. (Again, basic obedience lessons will teach you guys how to do this).

Your 11 month old dog is going through his teenage phase and will have extra bundles of energy for the next little while. This is the age that most dogs get dropped off at shelters because they have an increase in energy that sometimes leads to destructive or rebellious behaviours. I think what your household needs is a schedule. 

Say you wake up earlier in the morning to let dog out and take him for an hour walk. By the time you get back, he'll already have an hour's worth of exercise under his belt - that is HUGE for a teenage dog. Odds are you'll have a calmer dog during the day and less grabbing toys just because of that big hour walk in the morning. Especially since you can probably walk at a pretty good clip (not to mention the brownie points you'll get for exercising the dog while your wife gets to sleep in a little and then look after the baby without worrying about the dog). 

After the walk, let dog (did i miss your dog's name in the OP?) cool down for 20-30 minutes, then give him his breakfast in his kennel which hopefully is in the kitchen or somewhere else where he'll still feel like part of the family and can see the other members of his household. If your wife needs one-on-one time to deal with the baby, then the dog is happy in his crate: well exercised, fed, and possibly ready for some down time. If she can handle the dog being outside while she does what she does in the mornings, then he can come hang out quietly. If he starts getting rowdy or rambuctious, he can go back into his crate with a chewie (frozen kong or marrow bone or something) until he's settled again. 

Your wife can either walk the baby with the dog or without him. Doggie might be better on leash now that he's gotten that brisk hour of walk but if he's not, it's not essential that he goes with her. When you get home, you can take him for another 45-60 min walk and he'll probably be settled in for the rest of the evening and ready to chill with the rest of the family.

I'd also suggest a baby gate or something so he can have room to stretch his legs, interact with people but free of baby toys. That way he can't grab stuff and run, but he's still 'involved' with the rest of the family. Honestly though, I think if he gets two hours of walks in a day - morning and evening - you'll see a drastic reduction in his grabbing inappropriate items and running off. 

I guess to sum up my novel of a post: Two 1 hour walks a day, a household schedule that everyone sticks with, and basic obedience classes and you'll probably have a different dog on your hands.


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

The word overwhelmed comes to mind. Honestly I would have never gotten a puppy if I knew I was preggers lol! Sounds to me puppy in garage most the time is eager to play, play, play. I would get baby gates and let the puppy in the house with lots and lots of chew toys. They just want to be by their humans. Daddy needs to walk puppy before or after work. Keep up the training and please please don't muzzle.......muzzles on a golden (unless they are vicious) are just a cop out IMO. I was livid to find out my groomer put a muzzle on my Cody because he didn't like his tail brushed. New groomer and never had that problem again. I feel for you and your wife. I give her kudos for even trying to walk baby and puppy at the same time. But until he learns how to walk nicely on a leash I think that might be a little dangerous.


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

Muzzling prevents a behavior and avoids a problem, but does nothing to retrain the behavior or solve the problem. The puppy will still 'go' for the leash, he just won't be able to grab it...until the muzzle is off. So I vote no muzzle.

As Ranger said: get enrolled in the next level of obedience training. Our Penny was quite a handful; she attended obedience classes for 2 years following puppy class. We'd have a few weeks break between classes during which time we'd work on improving what we'd learned and then on to the next challenging class.

I second the idea of a walk before work and/or a dog walker. The dog walker could walk the dog WITH your wife and baby and be able to correct the unwanted behavior. Or handle the stroller while your wife correct the unwanted behavior. At any rate, I think your wife needs someone to help out here...not meaning anything critical of you. You sound like a very caring, loving husband who is looking for a solution you can all live with.


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## dberk (Jul 5, 2011)

All good suggestions, mostly. However, you have to decide why it is not working for you - is it because you don't have the time or because you don't know what to do? If the former - you won't have time to implement many of the suggestions either.

You need to decide whether you have the time for this dog. 

Muzzle a puppy? - not for me. They are just being a puppy.


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## Mirinde (Jun 8, 2011)

I personally also suggest doggy daycare for at least some of the time you aren't home... You and your wife are not dealing with "exceptional circumstances" (and I mean that with no offense), you're just in the same situation as most modern day families with a new baby and your dog is really just...being a dog, haha! 

Depending on how many hours a day you work, in your situation I would set up at least a couple hours of daycare in the AM to burn off energy and allow your wife to get up and moving for the day, followed by time at home in a puppy-proofed room with lots of toys and mental stimulation (when puppy finally wakes up from being burnt out at daycare!). I don't know what your house set up is like, but we can literally gate off half of our house with one gate... if you have a similar set up, that would leave your puppy plenty of room to romp around. Just be sure he does continue to get lots of interaction while he's in that area. 

I don't know what doggy daycare rates are in your area, but for us, two hours a day x 5 days a week x 4 weeks adds up to exactly $200 a month, which seems steep but depending on your financial situation, I could see it very easily being a price your wife would be willing to pay for added peace during the day.


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## Snoop Bobb (Aug 11, 2011)

All,

Again, thanks so much for your time and your thoughtful responses. Frankly, I wish that I'd taken a different approach to my initial inquiry, and [1] had explained our situation in a bit more detail, and [2] just generally requested guidance on a solution instead of mentioning a muzzle first. I've clearly touched an emotional nerve with a few of you, and that's evidently led to some unfortunate questions and assumptions about whether our dog has a good home. That's my fault, and that'll teach me to think a little harder before I post something on this forum.

For the two or three of you who actually took the time to explain the harm that muzzling can do, thank you VERY much. I simply had no idea, and that's what I wanted to know. Rest assured, we will not muzzle the dog. Again, I was just wondering whether it's a viable option, and clearly, it is not.

At the risk of coming off as defensive, in light of some comments that seem to express concern about whether the dog has a good home, I'd just like to clarify and elaborate on a few facts to help put you at ease: 

1. At an absolute minimum, the dog gets two hours of exercise a day. While I was on family leave, he got a minimum of three hours of exercise a day. During the two days this week on which my wife had trouble managing the dog, I had walked him more than 2 miles in the morning before I left for work. I then walked the dog another 2 miles in the evening as soon as I got home from work. So, rest assured, the dog is getting exercise. If I gave the impression that our high-energy dog was just festering around without any exercise at all, that's incorrect, and I apologize. Ultimately, the issue is how to enable my wife to give the dog a *third* period of exercise in the middle of the day. My wife desperately wants to be able to walk nicely (and safely...) with the dog and the baby during the day, and that's a major part of her vision of a happy family. Although the kennel is spacious, cool (we live in the Seattle suburbs...), and totally safe, she feels guilty about leaving him in there for any period of time. That's precisely why we're looking for ways to help her with the walking. 

2. We've had golden retrievers and labs before, so we were not flying blind when we adopted this dog. That said, this dog has more energy and requires more exercise than any golden retriever or lab I've ever had. In part, that might be because I haven't had a male dog in perhaps 20 years, and he's currently intact -- and as someone correctly observed, he's unquestionably hitting his teens like clockwork. So, this dog presents challenges that we have not encountered with our other dogs. (For instance, when I said that he's biting and tugging the leash, I'm not talking about the cute prancing alongside me with the leash in his mouth. I'm talking about grabbing the leash with his mouth, playing tug-of-war with the full force of his growing 65# body, and periodically thrashing his head back and forth -- while my wife is pushing a baby in a stroller on a sidewalk while cars are periodically driving by. If you put yourself in the position of a 5'4" 115# sleep-deprived mom, this type of biting and tugging aren't particularly charming.) Again, trying to be a responsible owner, that's why I'm here seeking some guidance and advice.

3. We adopted this dog in March when he was six months old. He had clearly undergone some basic training before we adopted him, but I don't know the specifics. That said, since we adopted him in March, the dog has had no fewer than 26 formal professional training sessions at a total cost of about $2500. He had a four-week training program shortly after we adopted him, in which he went through training M-F, five days a week, 6:30a to 4:30p, for four weeks. To my knowledge, that training camp is the most extensive and intensive puppy training program in the greater-Seattle area -- and they even went so far as to train the dog to walk alongside a stroller to help us out once the baby was born. After he completed his training, he then had no fewer than three follow-up training sessions. And, once he started acting up as a teen, I enrolled him in a 3-session advanced training class, which he completed one week ago today. Atop the formal training, I personally drill the dog every single day, usually (but not always) at least twice a day. Now that I've explained the dog's training in more detail, I trust that no one will reasonably conclude that we've short-changed the dog on his formal training. I've gotta think that the dog has undergone far more formal training at this stage of his life than the vast majority of dogs ever get. 

4. Because we've undergone so much training (both with this dog and with other dogs), we're aware of many of the tactics that you've recommended, and we've found that some of those tactics work very well under usual circumstances. Unfortunately, what had worked before has not worked during the last couple of days when my wife tried to walk the dog while she was pushing a stroller. So, although there's clearly some "parent error" going on here, it isn't ultimately "total parent ignorance." Again, we're entering some new territory in how the dog is responding to hist training, and we're just trying to move forward to address and resolve the situation as quickly as possible. We really appreciate your suggestions -- and to the extent that we haven't tried some of the tactics that you've recommended, we'll definitely try them. 

For whatever it's worth, today, instead of walking him 2 miles before I left for work, I drove to the local community dog park and exercised him off leash for about 45 minutes. The off-leash exercise is unquestionably best for this dog, and has always helped us to manage his energy level. That said, I hadn't taken the dog to the off-leash park in about 1.5 weeks, because there's recently been a super-high incidence of giardia associated with the park, and my dog was recently infected and underwent treatment. I rationalized returning to the park with him because I actually see more fecal matter (from dogs, wild animals, horses, etc.) on my walks than I do at the off-leash park. So, the risk of giardia re-infection is probably about the same both places. Let's keep our fingers crossed that it works.

Again, thanks so much for your time.


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

Just curious........have you walked him yourself while pushing the stroller?


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## Snoop Bobb (Aug 11, 2011)

Wyatt's mommy said:


> Just curious........have you walked him yourself while pushing the stroller?


Good question. Yes, I have done that as part of his formal training, and to practice with him after the formal training. In each instance, it's been without the baby in the stroller.

That said, to be honest, it has been about a month since I've practiced pushing the stroller and walking the dog all by myself -- and since that time, the dog has hit his teens in full stride. For the last few weeks until I returned to work on Tuesday, we've been walking as a family, with one of us pushing the baby in the stroller and the other managing the dog. So, he's unquestionably acclimated to the stroller, but hasn't been managed much by someone who's both walking him and pushing a stroller. 

<Lightbulb going off> Maybe I should resume practicing that with him. Starting tonight.


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

Snoop Bobb said:


> Good question. Yes, I have done that as part of his formal training, and to practice with him after the formal training. In each instance, it's been without the baby in the stroller.
> 
> That said, to be honest, it has been about a month since I've practiced pushing the stroller and walking the dog all by myself -- and since that time, the dog has hit his teens in full stride. For the last few weeks until I returned to work on Tuesday, we've been walking as a family, with one of us pushing the baby in the stroller and the other managing the dog. So, he's unquestionably acclimated to the stroller, but hasn't been managed much by someone who's both walking him and pushing a stroller.
> 
> <Lightbulb going off> Maybe I should resume practicing that with him. Starting tonight.


I asked that because I was wondering if he senses your wifes frustration and stress. Just curious to see how he reacts if you take them both alone. 
With all the formal training he has gone thru I wouldn't blame it on his teen years. Also another new person in the house that he has to compete for moms attention maybe? And did your wife go thru the training sessions with him? Teenage brattiness is a cop out IMO.


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

You have been very responsible in your training and handling of him. No dog comes with an owner's manual for that particular dog. We all guess and scramble for solutions when these things come up. Rest assured, you're not alone.

The good news is that this IS probably teen age brattiness and will ease in a few weeks. Hang in there; it will get better because you are a good doggie daddy.

We love pictures, when you have time.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

You're right about hitting adolescents right now. Maybe a session with your trainer to address specifically the problems you have right now will help. I'm sure you will find a solution, you obviously have put a lot into him already.


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## Mirinde (Jun 8, 2011)

This is in NO WAY to knock the training you've done with your dog because it is seriously awesome that you were able to find the time and the resources to put that much effort into his training... one question though... 

Is it possible that he's getting frustrated from over-training? You mentioned that you drill the dog every day, and it may just be the use of the word "drill" but it makes me wonder if he's also getting an equal amount of affection/bonding/happy stimulation to build a solid relationship with your wife/you. Is he allowed to play and cuddle and be a part of the family as well? Does your wife practice the same training techniques? He could be getting confused if there are differences between how you train and handle him and how she trains and handles him.


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## Angelina (Aug 11, 2011)

*grabbing the leash*

My pup does (did) the same thing. I got a cable tie from the marin humane society...it is a cable (covered in soft plastic) with attachments on both sides, one for the collar, one for the leash. Problem solved. 

I also use it as a tie down for the back of my car; otherwise she would end up in my lap!

When she starts up with the leash (I don't use the cable all the time now) I also make sure it is not fun for her, I drop it if possible and start to distract her with treats, ball in my pocket, whatever. She is just releasing energy....

I hope this helps.
Good luck to you! Kimberly


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## Snoop Bobb (Aug 11, 2011)

Mirinde said:


> Is it possible that he's getting frustrated from over-training? You mentioned that you drill the dog every day, and it may just be the use of the word "drill" but it makes me wonder if he's also getting an equal amount of affection/bonding/happy stimulation to build a solid relationship with your wife/you. Is he allowed to play and cuddle and be a part of the family as well? Does your wife practice the same training techniques? He could be getting confused if there are differences between how you train and handle him and how she trains and handles him.


Totally fair questions. 

1. By "drill," I didn't mean to suggest that we're acting like Tiger Moms. I just meant that I make a concerted effort to spend some time practicing each of his commands once a day at an absolute minimum. I do my best to use those commands in the natural flow of life. For instance, on a walk, I'll walk at least a few strides with the "right here" ("heel") command, and I'll ask him to "switch" from one side of me to the other while we're walking once or twice; before I feed him, I'll ask him to "sit," "wait," and/or "lay down." Moreover, his trainers uber-emphasize positive reinforcement, so he's constantly receiving praise whenever he does something right. Even when he's misbehaved and has been corrected, as soon as he makes a good decision, he gets praise. The vast majority of the time, my sense is that he enjoys the training, the practice, and the praise that comes with it. (But, I will say this: If the circumstances dictate that I need to correct him multiple times in short succession -- such as if he's walking on multiple neighbors' lawns or getting ready to walk through mounds of horse scat -- he does get frustrated and then tends to start biting on his leash. We're well aware of that, and "try" to avoid putting him in those situations.)

2. As I mentioned in my last comments, until about 1.5 weeks ago, I regularly exercised him at the local community off-leash park. While I was on family leave, at a bare minimum, I'd take him to the park for an hour as soon as the gates opened, so that no one else would be there, so that he'd be stuck with only me for a while, and so that our time at the park would serve as play / bonding time in addition to exercise time. 

3. Other than the two or three hours that we've spent exercising him, and other than when my wife has put him in his kennel (perhaps more accurately, "exercise pen") during the last couple of days, he's in the house wherever we are. Usually, that's the family room. When he's had sufficient exercise, he usually lays down in the middle of the room and either sleeps or gnaws on one of his chew toys. Periodically, he'll "dominate" his bed for a while. That said, in the house, there isn't much "active playing" with the dog. Once he starts to reenergize and it looks like he needs to play, that's right about when we head outside to get him some exercise.

4. As for the bonding, that's a bit of a concern, and is a major reason that I'm here asking for help. The dog and I are totally bonding, as I'm the one who's taken the laboring oar working with him. In turn, because I can't breast feed, my wife has taken the laboring oar on managing the baby. We recognize that my wife needs to spend more time with the dog to help solidify a bond -- and that's precisely why my wife wants to get to a place in which she can walk / exercise / deenergize the dog, so that in turn, he can stay in the house throughout the day. We've also wondered if this bonding issue is somehow affecting the way he's behaving when my wife walks him. (My wife attended most of the training sessions, she knows all of the commands, and when I've watched her handle the dog, she basically does the same stuff that I do. So, I don't think my wife's approach to commands and walking the dog differs much from mine, although that her vibe / presence surely differs from mine.)

Also, we definitely want to ensure that the dog develops a bond with our daughter. He absolutely *loves* her. He'll come lay next to her during tummy time or when she cries, he likes to lick her feet when they're bare -- and he tries to lick her face, but we're asking him to "leave it" on that because (a) the dog has been infected with giardia twice since the baby was born, and giardia can infect a person, and (b) the baby is still developing her immune system. But, we're careful about how we correct him, because we don't want him to think that it's totally wrong to show affection toward the baby.


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## Angelina (Aug 11, 2011)

My advice may seem simplistic, but serious, try the cable tie. They don't want it in their mouths. Secondly, if he is ball focused at all or into carrying things, distract him when he starts by giving him something to carry. Keep it in your pocket. He knows it is there. Show it to him, put it back. Distract him and keep going... Thirdly, remember he is young. Goldens especially have this magical number (around 24 months) where all of the sudden they start maturing enough to behave. In fact, many dogs do. People seem to get so fustrated and fed up and give them up right before that age...if they only realized....

One last thought. My girl scratches herself when under stress. Your last post suggests he may be using this habit as a de-stressor. Again, distract him from it, give him something else. For a while with mine, I gave her a plastic water bottle to carry. She was in heaven. Good luck and don't give up! I think you are doing great, it is just that the process can seem slow sometimes and we don't recognize the little steps of progress we really are making!


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## Snoop Bobb (Aug 11, 2011)

Angelina said:


> My advice may seem simplistic, but serious, try the cable tie.... !


Thanks for the suggestion! When you mentioned the cable tie in the other post, I wasn't sure what you meant and thought you might've been suggesting just tying him up outside for exercise. But now, I understand that you're suggesting that I get a short cable tie to use as a leash. (Right?) I've never tried that, so I'll definitely give that a shot. Thanks!


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## vcm5 (Apr 20, 2011)

I would give some bitter apple spray a shot with the leash as well - this worked for us at least!


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## Angelina (Aug 11, 2011)

> Thanks for the suggestion! When you mentioned the cable tie in the other post, I wasn't sure what you meant and thought you might've been suggesting just tying him up outside for exercise. But now, I understand that you're suggesting that I get a short cable tie to use as a leash. (Right?) I've never tried that, so I'll definitely give that a shot. Thanks!


That is correct. It is less then 2' long and one end attaches to the collar, the other to the leash. I tried to find a picture of it from their store but it is off line right now... Marin Humane Society in Novato, CA


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

It sounds like to me you are doing everything right. Most likely this is a stage and with the efforts you are already making you will work through it with him. As you mentioned before he has just hit his teen stage and its pretty typical for them to start some new unwanted behavior. 

He's giving you practice for when your daughter is a teenager!


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