# Calling all behaviorists!!!



## AndyFarmer (Jul 9, 2007)

An unsettling behavior has developed in my sweet boy Beamer.

Last night, Beamer was sleeping along side the ottoman and Hudson was sleeping on top of the ottoman. Hudson woke up, started to stretch and roll, and rolled right off the ottoman sorta onto Beamer on the floor (Hudson is still kinda puppy clumsy- he didn't know any better). Then Beamer nipped at him a few times but it wasn't a nice nip, it definately was sending a message.

Last week, I woke up in the middle of the night to Beamer nipping at Hudson on top of the bed, same manner, kinda forceful, when they were sleeping next to each other.

On any given day, these two play, chase, buck, walk together, follow each other around the house, etc., with no issues. 

I don't get it. Maybe Beamer likes his space when sleeping, doesn't like to be touched ?? (no comment Maggies Mom lol) And how do I correct this? Beamer is a really good kid, pretty sweet in fact, so these two occurances have me wondering what he's trying to tell Hudson.


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## wagondog (Aug 24, 2007)

If I got it right, Beamer may very well be displaying dominance and even resource guarding behavior. the roll off the ottoman may very well have been a one time startling issue with Hudson falling on Beamer. but you said it later happend on the "bed". Was that the dog's bed or your bed? If it was your bed.......that is resource guarding. Very common for a dog to "take" the bed as his/hers. Very simple solution to the bed issue if it is your bed. :no:


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

I don't think you "correct" it in the punitive sense. Sounds like he showed an inhibited bite after having a dog flop down on him while sleeping. 

If it were me, I'd deny the on the bed privilages and they both sleep on the floor. Could be that he's guarding his spot on the bed. In my house, if you guard it, you matter-of-factly (not all mean and pissy) lose it.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Oh - yeah, I assumed you were saying they were on YOUR bed. If it was a dog bed, I'd maybe teach them to stay on their own beds.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Hopefully the same trainer that works with Mary's dogs can work with Beamer. I hear he's great! These dogs always keep you hopping.


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## AndyFarmer (Jul 9, 2007)

wagondog said:


> If I got it right, Beamer may very well be displaying dominance and even resource guarding behavior. the roll off the ottoman may very well have been a one time startling issue with Hudson falling on Beamer. but you said it later happend on the "bed". Was that the dog's bed or your bed? If it was your bed.......that is resource guarding. Very common for a dog to "take" the bed as his/hers. Very simple solution to the bed issue if it is your bed. :no:


It was my bed, but Beamer and Libby have always slept on the bed together without issues. Maybe its a male thing? Also, all three have humped one another and that has not lead to nipping or fighting. 

It's gonna be hard to keep them off my bed at night, but I'll give it a shot.:crossfing


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## AndyFarmer (Jul 9, 2007)

FlyingQuizini said:


> Oh - yeah, I assumed you were saying they were on YOUR bed. If it was a dog bed, I'd maybe teach them to stay on their own beds.


Yes, it is my bed. Hudson has been here since July, so I'm confused as to why all of a sudden Beamer is pissy. Twice in one week.


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## AndyFarmer (Jul 9, 2007)

Kimm said:


> Hopefully the same trainer that works with Mary's dogs can work with Beamer. I hear he's great! These dogs always keep you hopping.


Yeah he is really good. He has worked with the Dirks fund dogs. I don't see him anymore at his facility, but I certainly could give him a call or drop by. Good idea!


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## wagondog (Aug 24, 2007)

We only scratch the surface understanding canine behavior but I have seen just as many dogs (dogs and bitches) who take over the owners bed as a resource as I have seen with any other object. Addittionally a dog may not always react in the same way. Mounting is dominance not resource guarding, I believe resouce guarding to be stronger.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Is Hudson often a "pest" to Beamer at different times in the day?

I'd also stop the humping, too. Just my preference. It's not always a bad thing, but it can be, so I choose to not really allow it.


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## AndyFarmer (Jul 9, 2007)

wagondog said:


> Mounting is dominance not resource guarding, I believe resouce guarding to be stronger.


So Beamer is a "momma's boy" LOL


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## AndyFarmer (Jul 9, 2007)

FlyingQuizini said:


> Is Hudson often a "pest" to Beamer at different times in the day?
> 
> I'd also stop the humping, too. Just my preference. It's not always a bad thing, but it can be, so I choose to not really allow it.


 
No not really. They engage in play equally, in fact Beamer is usually the instigator for play time. Hudson is a pretty laid back kid. Definately not the instigator. Yeah, when I see them humping, its stopped. I don't like it either.


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

can you remind me?
ages and are either still intact?


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## AndyFarmer (Jul 9, 2007)

Beamer just turned 2 in October (N), Hudson is 10 months (in tact)


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

Bama said to tell Hudson if he wants to run away he can come and live with him. LOL

I dont know what to say but maybe for a couple of days, they need to sleep on the floor, to see if that would help. Mine all have a certain spot they like to sleep in. Hope it is just a fluke and wont happen anymore. Give the boys a big hug from me.


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## AndyFarmer (Jul 9, 2007)

LOL I'll let Hudson know that!! And it's warmer down there


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

To be honest, most of my dogs would snap at another dog that rolled off the sofa and landed on them... I think that's okay, as long as it's not severe and doesn't start a fight. Most dogs take it to mean, "Watch where the hell you're going!" and most dogs get the message! No dog would dare step on Rigby... he growls a warning when he's under the covers (and can't be seen) and another dog walks around on the bed. He would never EVER growl at a person this way (even from under the covers he can somehow tell a dog vs a human!). I figure, it's like a person saying, "Hey, that hurt! Be careful!" or "Hey, I'm under here just in case you didn't know! Don't step on me!"

If that's really all it is, I wouldn't sweat it...


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

i wonder if Hudson is starting to mature, and Beamer is reacting to that when before he was a pup? My dog Raleigh growled at intact males only.


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## Bogart'sMom (Sep 16, 2005)

I also think Hudson is losing his Puppy free Card and Beamer is not as tolerant of him anymore. He wants to keep his status up. But really my Bogart could have done the same thing as Hudson (clumbsy puppy stuff) heck he is still a clumbsy guy at times. My ZsaZsa never gave Bogart the Puppy free card, she went the other way, if as a little pup he came running at her to play she killed that playfullness right from the get go, she did let him snuggle up to sleep though. I think as long as Hudson doesn't react and submits I would let Beamer be the dominant one. I think he just wants to show Hudson to be more careful around him and not accidently hurt him. It doesn't seem like they are fighting really and Hudson doesn't get bit I'm asuming?
All the best,


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> To be honest, most of my dogs would snap at another dog that rolled off the sofa and landed on them... I think that's okay, as long as it's not severe and doesn't start a fight. Most dogs take it to mean, "Watch where the hell you're going!" and most dogs get the message! No dog would dare step on Rigby... he growls a warning when he's under the covers (and can't be seen) and another dog walks around on the bed. He would never EVER growl at a person this way (even from under the covers he can somehow tell a dog vs a human!). I figure, it's like a person saying, "Hey, that hurt! Be careful!" or "Hey, I'm under here just in case you didn't know! Don't step on me!"
> 
> If that's really all it is, I wouldn't sweat it...


I agree with Jenna....Maggie and Abbie will growl at the others and each other if they are in a deep sleep and one of the others touch them...etc.. They have never growled at a human for touching them....


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## AndyFarmer (Jul 9, 2007)

Bogart'sMom said:


> I think as long as Hudson doesn't react and submits I would let Beamer be the dominant one. I think he just wants to show Hudson to be more careful around him and not accidently hurt him. It doesn't seem like they are fighting really and Hudson doesn't get bit I'm asuming?


Hudson is/has been submissive in the two incidents. I can understand the one where he rolled of the furniture onto Beamer, but in the middle of the night when we were all sleeping Beams nipped at him too (and growled a little), not a full blown bite. Maybe Beamer just wants his space....bed hog LOL


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Poor Hudson, it's tough being the new kid on the block


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Not everything a dog does is a plot to dominate humans or other animals- I think people are far too quick to jump on the dominance theory. 

I think dogs communicate with growling, sometimes snapping, and other methods that may alarm us but in many cases are just that- communication since they cannot speak. As Hudson ages and matures, the dynamic of the group is changing. Of course, if fights break out, I'd get involved! 

Humping... in almost every case, I let the dogs decide if they're willing to tolerate it or not. The only exception is a very obnoxious dog humping a younger, smaller dog who just rolls over/cries and the dog still won't stop. Then I correct. My dogs don't often do this, but sometimes I think they do it just because it's fun, or they are horny, or they're playing. Sometimes the same two (who get along fine, and never fight) will hump eachother in turns LOL


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## AndyFarmer (Jul 9, 2007)

ACC- all three hump each other LOL, so I'm not sure who's "in charge"!!???


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

Mine all hump each other...BUT we *know* who is is in CHARGE!


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## AndyFarmer (Jul 9, 2007)

Maggies mom said:


> Mine all hump each other...BUT we *know* who is is in CHARGE!


 
Uh yeah, no need for discussion there


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Is there a possibility that Beamer might have been a bit sore from when Hudson landed on him? Or is it possible that in bed, Hudson was lying on Beamers leg or tail and when Beamer tried to move, he couldn't?

My boys are best of friends, neither of them have a dominant bone in his body, but Danny will hump Jasper when he is really excited, like when they are all three playing in the backyard and chasing each other or when we are getting ready to take a walk up at the lake. I just tell him to knock it off. Jasper will hump Jasmine (aka the boss lady) when someone pulls into the driveway and she is totally focused on barking at the car. I tell him to knock it off, too. It's really funny when Danny decides to hump Jasper while Jasper is humping Jasmine. That usually only happens when someone actually walks up the sidewalk to the front door. And we have three floor to ceiling windows right there. So whoever it is gets quite the eyeful! LOL


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

All my dogs have different areas where they're the one in charge (after ME of course). It depends on the value each dog places on certain things, and his tolerance level of annoying or pushy behavior. 

For example, I have two dogs who don't mind being stepped on and bumped into. And then, I have one dog who hates it and another who only gets pissed off if it's a forceful bump. Of the two who do not mind being bumped into at all, one is nasty possesive (with dogs only, not with people!) over food, and the other is not over food, but is over tennis balls (none of my other dogs care about tennis balls really). Etc... I think dogs are like people, and there doesn't always have to be a clear leader. I have things I cannot put up with, that I would shout at someone for, and then I have other things that you might hate that I don't mind at all. So do our doggies!

I raise them with extensive socialization, and I let them communicate with one another. I have a zero aggression to humans rule, but in the rare event a dog growls at me, I listen. I figure out why. He's trying to tell me something- it is his voice.


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## AndyFarmer (Jul 9, 2007)

fostermom said:


> Is there a possibility that Beamer might have been a bit sore from when Hudson landed on him? Or is it possible that in bed, Hudson was lying on Beamers leg or tail and when Beamer tried to move, he couldn't?
> 
> My boys are best of friends, neither of them have a dominant bone in his body, but Danny will hump Jasper when he is really excited, like when they are all three playing in the backyard and chasing each other or when we are getting ready to take a walk up at the lake. I just tell him to knock it off.


The overnight bed growl/nip happened first, then the rolling off the furniture. I was sleeping in the bed so I'm not sure what happened, but I definately saw clumsy boy roll of the ottoman LOL And yes, mine hump each other when playing, it seems harmless, but I do put a stop to it if I see it. I just hope Beamer isn't turning nasty or deciding he doesn't really like Hudson. That would break my heart.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

I am hoping it's just a little spell where Beamer is seeing something in Hudson that he finds the need to correct.

Way back when Danny was about 6-7 months old, he was more of a major pest than he is now. He would push Jasper quite often. He also didn't have (and still doesn't have) a soft mouth, so it could hurt when he was playing. Jasper is as gentle as gentle can get and never loses his temper. But one day I watched him take Danny across the room snapping and snarling at Danny, he had Danny down on the ground! And then he walked away, shook himself off and was over it. And Danny never bit him that hard ever again. I have never heard Jasper snarl before that or after that. LOL

What I am saying is that sometimes there is a reason for the action. If Beamer has always been a good, laid back dog, I wouldn't worry about it for now. Keep an eye on it, but don't worry too much.

Oh, and I meant to add. The unneutered part may be playing a part in it at this point. I have seen it happen in some of the training classes I have been in. Even the nicest unneutered male brings out a not so friendly side from some dogs.


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## AndyFarmer (Jul 9, 2007)

Thanks you guys. I appreciate your opinions  I'll watch Mr. Pissy-pants and see if this is a trend or just "seasonal" LOL


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

AndyFarmer said:


> Thanks you guys. I appreciate your opinions  I'll watch Mr. Pissy-pants and see if this is a trend or just "seasonal" LOL


I happen to love Mr. Prissy pants... Maybe Abbie and Maggie sent him the vibe....


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## AndyFarmer (Jul 9, 2007)

Pissy pants, not PRISSY pants LOL


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

AndyFarmer said:


> Pissy pants, not PRISSY pants LOL


I called him prissy..not pissy.


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

You've got good bite inhibition from Beamer - that's a huge plus. There's a really sudden onset of these symptoms - twice in a day - that's odd. I'd have Beamer in for a vet check (thyroid in particular). The other thing is just to see where it goes and watch them closely - I'd kick them both off the bed for a while though


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## AndyFarmer (Jul 9, 2007)

Twice in a week, not a day. And yes, off the bed for now and I'm watching Mr. PISSY pants. He's not Prissy Mary !!!!! LOL


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