# Breeders Recommendations in SoCal



## Lightsyde (Feb 26, 2014)

Hi Everyone,

My family lost our golden to cancer last year in October after spending 10 wonderful years with us and it was very difficult for everyone. We decided that now is a good time to bring in another golden puppy to join the family. I have been reading posts on recommended breeders and have contacted a few myself but would like to have input from others who have experiences with the below mentioned breeders. I have also contacted Shadalane but the price for their most recent litter in February is quite high since both parents are AKC Champion. Thanks! 

Royal Golden Kennel 

Location: Orange County, CA 92676
Breeder: Debra Pardee
Tel: (949) 291-4952 
Next litter: Mid March
Parents: Brandon (CH. Shadalane's Brand of Excellence) w/Shadalane 

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Lily (Intl CH Royal Princess Lily) 

Autumnwind Golden Retriever

Location: Orange County, CA 90720
Breeder: Linda Isaacson
Tel: (562) 431-7626
Next litter: Early March
Parents: Bumper (CH Autumnwind's Mr. Bumper McBear, CGC, ThD)
Bellum (CH Canyon Ridge's American Honey)

Calico Golden Retriever

Location: Fullerton, CA 
Breeder: Mary Thompson 
Tel: (714) 788-8806
Next litter: Maybe April


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

I know Linda and Mary, I do not know the first breeder you listed. Both Linda and Mary are wonderful. However, Linda actually is not the breeder of the litter you are asking about, she owns the stud dog. The breeder is actually Canyon Ridge Kennels. You could not go wrong with either two breeders though, IMO.


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

Lightsyde said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> My family lost our golden to cancer last year in October after spending 10 wonderful years with us and it was very difficult for everyone. We decided that now is a good time to bring in another golden puppy to join the family. I have been reading posts on recommended breeders and have contacted a few myself but would like to have input from others who have experiences with the below mentioned breeders. I have also contacted Shadalane but the price for their most recent litter in February is quite high since both parents are AKC Champion. Thanks!
> 
> ...


I private messaged you. You can check it up in the right hand corner next to your name


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

I know #2 and #3, I don't know #1 even though I live in Orange County and am pretty active in the Golden world. While the first one says most of the right things, something about the web page raises caution flags for me. I don't know why. I briefly looked at the pedigrees of the parents, and they look okay (aside from not having current eye certifications).

#2 and #3 are good breeders, though as Michelle says, Linda Isaacson isn't the breeder, Bumper is her stud dog.

I don't know what Wyatt's Mommy PM'd you, but she and I have gone 'round about her advocacy for a certain puppy mill in SoCal so if she recommended another breeder to you -- like Eveningstar, for example -- I'd check it out with some others before running over there. Of course, this comment may be totally off base and unfair to her since I don't know what she wrote, and if that's the case I apologize. I just wonder why she didn't comment publicly.


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

DanaRuns said:


> I don't know what Wyatt's Mommy PM'd you, but she and I have gone 'round about her advocacy for a certain puppy mill in SoCal so if she recommended another breeder to you -- like Eveningstar, for example -- I'd check it out with some others before running over there. Of course, this comment may be totally off base and unfair to her since I don't know what she wrote, and if that's the case I apologize. I just wonder why she didn't comment publicly.


I have NEVER advocated puppy mills. Yes when the op reads my message she will dismiss this fabricated comment 

And you wonder why I didn't comment publicly? LOL!


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

Wyatt's mommy said:


> I have NEVER advocated puppy mills. Yes when the op reads my message she will dismiss this fabricated comment
> 
> And you wonder why I didn't comment publicly? LOL!


Then I apologize. Not to get into an argument, but you definitely seemed to me to defend and advocate for Eveningstar, which is a puppy mill, in this thread http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...uppy/124189-thoughts-eveningstar-kennels.html. I remember offering to show you personally that Eveningstar fakes clearances, and you were uninterested and still advised a newbie to check them out, saying it was personal and that you have a friend with a dog from that kennel that is healthy so you felt positively about them. And were not interested in seeing otherwise. If I have mischaracterized your beliefs, I'm sorry.


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

DanaRuns said:


> Then I apologize. Not to get into an argument, but you definitely seemed to me to defend and advocate for Eveningstar, which is a puppy mill, in this thread http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...uppy/124189-thoughts-eveningstar-kennels.html. I remember offering to show you personally that Eveningstar fakes clearances, and you were uninterested and still advised a newbie to check them out, saying it was personal and that you have a friend with a dog from that kennel that is healthy so you felt positively about them. And were not interested in seeing otherwise. If I have mischaracterized your beliefs, I'm sorry.


 
Yep mischaracterized once again. It is *perfectly clear* that all I did was suggest to the op to *check them out for herself* as she is doing research. Yes I do know someone that purchased from them years ago and the dog is awesome. There is no proof to your accusations _in that thread_ about the place being a puppy mill, filthy, dogs coming home sick etc. I would think if the op went and did check it out for herself that she would come back and report that those accusations were true.......or not. What's there to be afraid of?


As another poster "nicely" said in that thread....this is a chat board, take nothing anyone says here as "gospel", do your own research that needs to be checked. People have preferences in trainers, breeders, lawyers, judges, color, sex.......and I sure hope the op will return as this is really silly.

Whew! I hope I cleared that up for you.........oh and eveningstar was not mentioned in my message to the op.


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

Since Canyon Ridge was mentioned as the dam of one of the litters above, I'd also point out a questionable litter on the ground right now using a Canyon Ridge stud. The breeder is Sterling Valley Goldens who is also a member on this forum and whose breeding practices have been discussed. Her female is currently on litter #2 (litter #4 overall) with the sire Canyon Ridge's Power Forward who was first bred before he was 2 and now that he is 2, final clearances are still not reflected on offa.org. However, when you go to Sterliing Valley's website, the stud's pre-lim clearance are being listed as "final" which is misleading at best. Interesting enough these pups are being sold for $1800


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## Gwen_Dandridge (Jul 14, 2012)

Play nice.


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## K9lover1228 (Feb 28, 2014)

SheetsSM said:


> Since Canyon Ridge was mentioned as the dam of one of the litters above, I'd also point out a questionable litter on the ground right now using a Canyon Ridge stud. The breeder is Sterling Valley Goldens who is also a member on this forum and whose breeding practices have been discussed. Her female is currently on litter #2 (litter #4 overall) with the sire Canyon Ridge's Power Forward who was first bred before he was 2 and now that he is 2, final clearances are still not reflected on offa.org. However, when you go to Sterliing Valley's website, the stud's pre-lim clearance are being listed as "final" which is misleading at best. Interesting enough these pups are being sold for $1800


 I would like to set the records straight on a post where you mentioned my stud dog Canyon Ridge Power Forward. He is prelim OFA excellent and will be getting his official clearances done just as soon as he is done with his training. He is in the prison pup program completing his advanced training to become a service dog. Yes, I should of gotten them done sooner, but I didn't. We all know that many top breeders will use their stud dog prior to 2 years of age with just prelims but I certainly don't see them being slapped on this forum. And we all know that they even breed their girls more than 2 or 3 times before they spay them, again I don't see them being slapped here neither. You should not slap people before you have all the facts. ALL my girls have their official clearances on their hips, elbows, eyes and heart before they are ever bred. Not looking for a fight, just setting the records straight. Have a very Blessed evening.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

K9lover1228 said:


> And we all know that they even breed their girls more than 2 or 3 times before they spay them, again I don't see them being slapped here neither. You should not slap people before you have all the facts. ALL my girls have their official clearances on their hips, elbows, eyes and heart before they are ever bred.


FWIW, I did not see any questions raised in regard to your girls. 
The issues raised were about your boys clearance status, which you have confirmed as fact, owned the deficiency and committed to correcting this lack. 
I hope you have good results with his final clearances, I have know several dogs that have had prelims and failed a final clearance. This is the concern when any breeder does not follow the GRCA code of ethics. It was also pointed out because the Sterling Valley's website (which you may have no control of) is listing him with clearances that cannot be indepedantly verified by a puppy buyer and are not actual clearances but prelims.
Welcome to the forum, I hope you will stick around and join in our community.:wavey:


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## CharlieBear80 (Oct 13, 2013)

K9lover1228 said:


> We all know that many top breeders will use their stud dog prior to 2 years of age with just prelims but I certainly don't see them being slapped on this forum. And we all know that they even breed their girls more than 2 or 3 times before they spay them, again I don't see them being slapped here neither.


Can someone with more expertise than I speak to the accuracy of this? I'd hate for a puppy buyer to come here, read this and accept it as fact.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Expertise, I don't know who has what but I have been around 35 years doing this, so I will speak to it. I don't know of any top breeders who put their boys to *outside*girls before they are 2. I do know that many do use them on their own girls on prelims. Some breeders will breed their girls more than two or three times, but typically I think that they are either superier producers (and not just making puppies for pet market) or have had very small litters. It doesn't take as much out of a girl to have 2 puppies as it does 10. I haven't checked this girl out on her 4th litter- but if she's only 4 YO herself, it's unlikely there is a production record that shows she's already been such a producer to warrant continuing to use her uterus.
I am sure no matter who the breeder is they'd get 'slapped' here for the practice of not having clearances. And as well, just because a top breeder does something doesn't mean non-top breeders should do it, too.

edit- I did go look at the bitch's page- I don't see where she's on litter #4 so I must have misread the other post- it appears she's on #2. Sorry.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

The practice of a breeder occasionally breeding an outstanding boy on prelims has been discussed at length on this forum over the years. I will try to find the thread which discussed it specifically and post a link. But the gist of the thread was that yes, it does happen on occasion. 


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

Prism Goldens said:


> edit- I did go look at the bitch's page- I don't see where she's on litter #4 so I must have misread the other post- it appears she's on #2. Sorry.


I've uploaded her litters to k9data--3 litters registered w/ the AKC, the 4th litter is what's on the ground right now. 4 litters & not yet 5 yrs old. Practitioner heart clearance, no titles--not sure the what the rush was to breed her to an uncleared male & to advertise prelims as clearances.

Looking at another thread of the breeder (Sterling Valley) where she mentions getting clearances on her other female 2 mos shy of her 2nd b-day makes me wonder if that pup will also be bred on pre-lims.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

K9lover1228 said:


> .... Yes, I should of gotten them done sooner, but I didn't. We all know that many top breeders will use their stud dog prior to 2 years of age with just prelims but I certainly don't see them being slapped on this forum. …... You should not slap people before you have all the facts. ...


When anyone asks this forum for input on a specific breeder, it will be researched in public records and issues or inconsistencies will be mentioned. It's part of educating people on what separates a reputable, ethical hobby breeder from the people who are cutting corners and making money on the backs of their dogs. A code of ethics is applied equally on this forum to top breeders as well as everyone else. Just because "Top breeders do it" doesn't make it right and it is not accepted by most here. You need to have your facts straight before you start insulting people here.

Yes, you should have had the proper clearances in your hands with all your ducks in a row before that dog was bred. The GRCA code of ETHICS lists the four clearances as a minimum and not before age 2 for a reason. It's called ETHICS for a reason and I promise you any breeder, regardless of who they are, breeding on prelims and then charging $1800 for pet puppies is going to be called out on this forum for their callous disregard for the well-being of the puppies and the future of the breed and for taking advantage of unsuspecting and uneducated pet buyers. It is wrong and if you're going to show up on this forum with a lame excuse like "I should have done it sooner, but I just didn't have time." I promise, you're going to get 'slapped' every time. No matter who you are, the standards apply to everyone.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

Here is a thread from a couple of years ago on this issue: http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/showthread.php?t=94917

The post by hvgoldens on the first page provides a good response to the question. 


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## K9lover1228 (Feb 28, 2014)

nolefan said:


> When anyone asks this forum for input on a specific breeder, it will be researched in public records and issues or inconsistencies will be mentioned. It's part of educating people on what separates a reputable, ethical hobby breeder from the people who are cutting corners and making money on the backs of their dogs. A code of ethics is applied equally on this forum to top breeders as well as everyone else. Just because "Top breeders do it" doesn't make it right and it is not accepted by most here. You need to have your facts straight before you start insulting people here.
> 
> Yes, you should have had the proper clearances in your hands with all your ducks in a row before that dog was bred. The GRCA code of ETHICS lists the four clearances as a minimum and not before age 2 for a reason. It's called ETHICS for a reason and I promise you any breeder, regardless of who they are, breeding on prelims and then charging $1800 for pet puppies is going to be called out on this forum for their callous disregard for the well-being of the puppies and the future of the breed and for taking advantage of unsuspecting and uneducated pet buyers. It is wrong and if you're going to show up on this forum with a lame excuse like "I should have done it sooner, but I just didn't have time." I promise, you're going to get 'slapped' every time. No matter who you are, the standards apply to everyone.


I thank everyone for their expertise in their replies. All will be dually noted. And I only have the one boy at this time which will be corrected once he is out of advanced training for becoming a service dog. When I make a mistake, I own up to it and correct it. . Hope everyone has a Blessed night.


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

K9lover1228 said:


> I thank everyone for their expertise in their replies. All will be dually noted. And I only have the one boy at this time which will be corrected once he is out of advanced training for becoming a service dog. When I make a mistake, I own up to it and correct it. . Hope everyone has a Blessed night.


Glad to hear you will resolve the clearance issue, hopefully before the litter heads off to their homes as a simple set of x-rays shouldn't derail his training. Unfortunately, Sterling Valley Goldens continues to market this litter (puppyfind, doggies.com, oodle...) studded by your boy as having complete clearances. Seeing as how the breeder has "liked" a post on this very thread it can't because they aren't aware of the issue.


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## Goldenhopeful (Dec 21, 2013)

Puppyfinder.com :yuck:


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

Goldenhopeful said:


> Puppyfinder.com :yuck:


???????????


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## K9lover1228 (Feb 28, 2014)

SheetsSM said:


> Glad to hear you will resolve the clearance issue, hopefully before the litter heads off to their homes as a simple set of x-rays shouldn't derail his training. Unfortunately, Sterling Valley Goldens continues to market this litter (puppyfind, doggies.com, oodle...) studded by your boy as having complete clearances. Seeing as how the breeder has "liked" a post on this very thread it can't because they aren't aware of the issue.


You are correct on the simple X-rays and they will get as soon as he gets released from prison he will get them done.


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## K9lover1228 (Feb 28, 2014)

SheetsSM said:


> Glad to hear you will resolve the clearance issue, hopefully before the litter heads off to their homes as a simple set of x-rays shouldn't derail his training. Unfortunately, Sterling Valley Goldens continues to market this litter (puppyfind, doggies.com, oodle...) studded by your boy as having complete clearances. Seeing as how the breeder has "liked" a post on this very thread it can't because they aren't aware of the issue.


As soon as he gets paroled from prison (he's in the women's prison in Chino) I will get them done.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

WOW- It so seems I just lucked out AGAIN. The second BYB I currently own, who was critiqued by some on this very forum has so far PASSED Optigen testing, Eye, Heart and it seems like she will pass both Hips and Elbows (approx one more week waiting time). Funny how I got lucky with two BYB dogs while my top bred dog seemed to get the short end of the stick and ended up to be the most expensive dog I have ever owned. I would do it again for him without regrets because I loved him but I will never own another dog that has any similar or close pedigree no matter how far in him.

Once again it proves that the experts are not so expert. They only pretend to be. After all is it just the luck of the draw! 

As Wyatt's mom said, get references and then check them out. Go meet them, do not buy over the internet or via websites. Meet the parents, meet the other dogs. If any of the other dogs are caged (indoors or outdoors) stay away. Obviously they never worked or cared about the dogs. If you see more than 5 dogs on the premises, question it. If you get any excuses for a medical condition of why you cannot meet Y or Z dog on the premises question it with your vet. You have as much right to NOT get on a waiting list as the breeder in question has to put you on one. If they do not answer your message or email in 5 biz days move on. It is their loss of a potential good family and not yours. Cell phones are everywhere, email on the cellphones is everywhere - no matter how busy they claim to be.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

That's great news about your girl. But one dog doesn't change the fact that testing for hereditary diseases has reduced the incidence of those diseases. It just doesn't, no matter how many anecdotal stories one throws out there... 


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

goldenjackpuppy said:


> That's great news about your girl. But one dog doesn't change the fact that testing for hereditary diseases has reduced the incidence of those diseases. It just doesn't, no matter how many *anecdotal* stories one throws out there...
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


That is completely insulting! Especially coming from a moderator. 

If more people with BYB dogs would do the clearances it will simply prove how less anecdotal real life experiences are and how less important the Hips and Elbows are while genetic testing is put on the sideline by the same "experts". Just because something has been done for years does not make it right. Actually to the contrary it has degenerated the GR breed.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

It wasn't intended to be insulting at all so I'm sorry if was taken that way. 


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

Claudia M said:


> WOW- It so seems I just lucked out AGAIN. The second BYB I currently own, who was critiqued by some on this very forum has so far PASSED Optigen testing, Eye, Heart and it seems like she will pass both Hips and Elbows (approx one more week waiting time). Funny how I got lucky with two BYB dogs while my top bred dog seemed to get the short end of the stick and ended up to be the most expensive dog I have ever owned. I would do it again for him without regrets because I loved him but I will never own another dog that has any similar or close pedigree no matter how far in him.
> 
> Once again it proves that the experts are not so expert. They only pretend to be. After all is it just the luck of the draw!


Nowhere has anyone ever said that clearances = 100% health nor does the lack of clearances = 100% guarantee that the dog will have health issues. What it does is stack the odds that the dog has the best chance at health. Kind of like seat belts, so I get lucky a couple of times driving while not wearing it, does it make me safe--absolutely not.

That's great that you got "lucky" but what about the other dogs? My girl didn't luck out, in fact she was used for breeding--wonder how lucky her pups turned out? I for one will only support a breeder that does everything in their power to set the dogs up for success & not take additional chances with the health of my loved ones. Having been in rescue now for 7 yrs, I can honestly say your results with a sample size of 3--don't match up to what I'm seeing with 1K rescues I've seen in the US and now Korea. Not sure why we have to re-explain this on thread after thread.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Because Sheets, you are not explaining anything. You are assuming and wondering how pups are, based on an assumption while putting down breeders. Normally the worst of the worst end up in rescue so yes you will be prone to see a higher percentage with bad health (much of it which is also caused by the environment in which they grew up). Our Jack was abandoned as a very young pup, found him at 8 or 9 weeks with flees, mange, diarrhea etc. He lived to almost 16 even with Lupus because he was found early and nurtured early. 
Are clearances good? YES Some of them are mostly for the dog in questions and not necessarily for the odds of the pup.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

Claudia M said:


> Are clearances good? YES Some of them are mostly for the dog in questions and not necessarily for the odds of the pup.



But that's the part that is simply not true! A depth of hip clearances in a pedigree reduces the incidence of hd in the offspring of those dogs. It's not a guarantee, of course. But to assume that all these untested byb dogs would be clear of hd, ed, SAS and eye issues like PU, etc. is just not a fair assumption to make. Would some be clear, I'm sure they would, but until you test them you have no idea. 

And the bigger issue of "why" these dogs are not tested before breeding presents itself as well. 


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

One would ask the same question about the genetic testings that are not done. Even though more accurate as far as the odds of the offspring. 
Instead a breeder is jumped here for excellent preliminaries. 
And no, you do not have the complete data to make that assumption on HD. A complete data will include clearances on ALL offsprings. A complete data will include all the passing and non-passing results of ALL offspring. Such data does not exist.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

It is very true that there is no dog with solid, concrete, perfect testing history or DNA. As much as people would like breeding dogs to be black and white it simply never will. Dogs are living breathing animals and animal husbandry is a balance between art and science. To completely ignore either or both does this breed a huge disservice, which is where my personal beef with BYB's come from. Though I will always support the dogs. 
Science is easier when it is concrete like the myriad basic DNA tests. It is harder when it is not like with elbows, hips, SAS, and PU. These are huge issues in the breed and I for one (and I believe most reputable breeders) would jump at a genetic versus phenotic test for these. Adoption of DNA tests for rare or generally non-life quality affecting diseases are being adopted but it is slow. Kind of like when elbow testing first started.
I am very glad your dog is passing clearances. and yes you are lucky! Every single dog who passes clearances is lucky. Even dogs from both cleared parents have a 12.2% chance of having elbow Dysplasia. When you don't know the history of the dogs parents, you could be looking at the same 12.2% risk if the parents have normal but untested elbows or 26.1%-41.5% chance if the one or both of the parents had affected elbows. There are dogs of all sizes, shapes, breeds, and mixes walking around with Grade 1 elbow Dysplasia that no one can see with the naked eye. If bred they are increasing the chance that their offspring will have Dysplasia by more than twice what a normal elbow dog will produce. 
Puppy buyers need to decide if they are willing to take the risk of not knowing. 
I agree it would be very beneficial to the breed as a whole if every golden was tested for everything and it was made public. When you find utopia let me know. Until then I will continue to live in the wonderful gray researching, honing my knowledge and admiring the art and science of great breeders.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

The absence of data is not Utopia - it simply shows that assumptions are incorrect. Unfortunately is is touted as correct. 
On the opposite side of the gray area - One can look at the data out there and see only 2 pups out of 10 pups show clearances. What would keep that person from NOT assuming that the rest did not pass? Thus now based on your assumption those dogs shouldn't be bred. All of a sudden your gray area it turning pitch black simply due to erroneous data to start with. 
Your percentages will only hold true if you had the entire data. Maybe I missed it but I have yet to see where the entire offspring have been tested generation after generation and not just less than 25% of them. 
Just like the assumption made on this thread that a member *may have *recommended a breeder that does not conform with the GR Bible and then took the discussion further to bashing a stud who was bred on preliminaries.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

No one was bashing the stud. I've seen him several times, he's lovely. I also know his owner personally and she agrees, as she stated above, that it was a mistake and it will be rectified. I'm not entirely sure how that particular situation is relevant to clearances in general though? In that situation there was a concern about prelims being represented as finals by the breeder who bred to him. 


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

Claudia M said:


> Because Sheets, you are not explaining anything. You are assuming and wondering how pups are, based on an assumption while putting down breeders. Normally the worst of the worst end up in rescue so yes you will be prone to see a higher percentage with bad health (much of it which is also caused by the environment in which they grew up). Our Jack was abandoned as a very young pup, found him at 8 or 9 weeks with flees, mange, diarrhea etc. He lived to almost 16 even with Lupus because he was found early and nurtured early.
> Are clearances good? YES Some of them are mostly for the dog in questions and not necessarily for the odds of the pup.


If pointing out the fact that a breeder is claiming clearances that don't exist is "putting down" a breeder, then call me guilty. She knows clearances are important enough that they should be done, so much so that she's attempting to pass pre-lims as the real deal & this is the second litter with the same stud under the same circumstances. To me that is a such a shame. I can't imagine misleading puppy buyers is an acceptable practice to you that you feel you must defend.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Sheets, could you please advise, based on your experience how much do the prelim hip and Elbow rating change from let's say 20 months to 24 months? 
What are the possibilities of going from excellent or good to a non passing? 

I may have missed it on the webpage but I thought it was listed as "full" clearances and not "final" clearances. I personally see the two terms completely different.


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

Claudia M said:


> Sheets, could you please advise, based on your experience how much do the prelim hip and Elbow rating change from let's say 20 months to 24 months?
> What are the possibilities of going from excellent or good to a non passing?
> 
> I may have missed it on the webpage but I thought it was listed as "full" clearances and not "final" clearances. I personally see the two terms completely different.


For your education:
Golden Retriever Club of America - The GRCA Club
Golden Retriever Club of America (GRCA)Health Screenings for the Parents of a Litter

Your still missing the point that the breeder who I am in your eyes "bashing" is not being honest with puppy buyers. Claiming clearances, but when you put the dog's info into offa.org there are no hip/elbow clearances listed. Pre-lims are removed after the dog turns 24 mos and is eligible for the actual clearance. A pre-lim is not a clearance.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

On the plus side at least this breeder that you condemn for excellent prelim has kept up with the latest spay and neuter studies and does not recommend it to be done until after 18 months. Also, full registration is available for puppies after the age of 2 based on spay/neuter or clearances; not for an extra price and not based on co-ownership.
Most of the rescue dogs are spayed and neutered early (as soon as on the premises) which does lead to HD, cancers, etc. if done early.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

SheetsSM said:


> For your education:
> Golden Retriever Club of America - The GRCA Club
> Golden Retriever Club of America (GRCA)Health Screenings for the Parents of a Litter
> 
> Your still missing the point that the breeder who I am in your eyes "bashing" is not being honest with puppy buyers. Claiming clearances, but when you put the dog's info into offa.org there are no hip/elbow clearances listed. Pre-lims are removed after the dog turns 24 mos and is eligible for the actual clearance. A pre-lim is not a clearance.


Actually if the dog is not micro-chipped the preliminaries never show on the OFA website, regardless of age. 

I ask again: How much do they change between 20 and 24 months????? Please advise! 

Since the GRCA does not require genetic testing - I can care less about it. "Reputable" Breeders have knowingly bred carriers with either unknown/carriers or affected thus producing affected puppies.


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## Shellbug (Nov 14, 2013)

I am by no means an expert. Heck I don't know much about breeding, etc. my Thor was a brb dog. Best dog in the world too. I think the issue is VERY black and white here though. Nobody is questioning the awesomeness of the dog. The prelims WERE done. Yes. However the FACT is that they lied and said the final clearances were done. This was done by somebody who KNOWS the code of ethics and did it anyway. Not one time but two times. Now I am not "picking sides" in this issue. But frankly I don't think there is a leg to stand on with this issue. She knowingly bred the dog without final clearances but also stated it was wrong and will be corrected. We all do silly things at times and I truly believe this will be dealt with as stated. You can't hardly argue this issue when the facts are sitting right here for all of us to read. 
With all that said, I wouldn't trade my brb dog for all the money in the world. He is truly an amazing dog. I will have all his testing done at 2 and I sure hope he passes with flying colors. I'm pretty sure he will though  because like I said.... He is awesome ?


Claudia M said:


> On the plus side at least this breeder that you condemn for excellent prelim has kept up with the latest spay and neuter studies and does not recommend it to be done until after 18 months. Also, full registration is available for puppies after the age of 2 based on spay/neuter or clearances; not for an extra price and not based on co-ownership.
> Most of the rescue dogs are spayed and neutered early (as soon as on the premises) which does lead to HD, cancers, etc. if done early.






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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Full and Final are two different things. And many other breeders that tout the GRCA COE have bred under two on preliminaries or as the excuse was given, based on experience and knowledge of the line. 

And as the ones thinking this is such a HUGE deal, it is not, preliminaries at 18 to 20 months do not change by 24 months. 

I hope the owner of the stud will consider PennHip after 24 months since he/she already has the OFA rating.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Claudia M said:


> The absence of data is not Utopia - it simply shows that assumptions are incorrect.


It would be nice if you tried to read the posts others make. You always seem to misread, misinterpret, or misunderstand so you can continue in an emotionally charged response. 

In case you missed it....I agreed with you.....it would ideal if every golden was tested for everything and the results made public....that would be the utopia I was referring to...and I hope you, I and everyone find it.

I also added that I live in the "gray" or real world and do the best I can there. You can attack the data which is fact, but it is foolish to constantly assert it has no merit, it does.

To quote one of my favs on the forum, "you are entitled to your own opinion, not your own facts."


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Yikes,came into this with offensive opinion yet others are defensive..


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

talk about misreading, misinterpreting, misunderstanding? I never said that the data is not fact. It is just an erroneous and incomplete fact. 
You give percentages based on maybe at the most 25% tested, posted (take your pick) offspring. The premises of the data starts out false, prelim are not posted unless dog is microchipped, non-passing results are posted only if the owner agrees. While it is a step in the right direction, incomplete data can only lead to assumptions and not facts! Like you said: "YOU are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts!"


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

I think it was Mark Twain who said, "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes time and annoys the pig." Or perhaps it was, "Never wrestle with a pig: you get dirty and the pig enjoys it."


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

DanaRuns said:


> I think it was Mark Twain who said, "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes time and annoys the pig." Or perhaps it was, "Never wrestle with a pig: you get dirty and the pig enjoys it."


“I am very proud to be called a pig. It stands for pride, integrity and guts.” Ronald Reagan.

Meanwhile, resorting to insults and sarcasm only proves that one has nothing to add to the table.


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## Rob's GRs (Feb 25, 2007)

To all,
I am just stepping in here to say please keep things civil and refrain from insults. Though you may not agree on another members " opinions" or posts but keep all comments to your disagreement respectable . Insulting or being rude to someone will not change anyone's "opinion".


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## Mitjones (Aug 17, 2013)

Any recommendations on a reputable breeder with big headed goldens


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## SunnyNMe (May 5, 2014)

Hello,
This is Debra with Royal Golden Kennel. I wanted to clarify that since I only have one litter a year, most other breeders won't know me. In a way, that's a good sign, since it shows that these very knowledgeable contributors haven't heard bad things about me. K9Data may not have been updated for CERF clearances, but both parents do have current CERF. What I do that's different from a lot of breeders is the SuperDog techniques and lots of other socialization. I spend a lot of time with my puppies.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

SunnyNMe said:


> What I do that's different from a lot of breeders is the SuperDog techniques and lots of other socialization.


Actually that is not very different at all. All the reputable breeders I know have a very deliberate puppy socialization process. 

My opinion that these puppies seem over priced for what a buyer is getting. For $2000 you can get a puppy that has parents with complete clearances as recommended by the GRCA and that have accomplishments such as both parents AKC champions or one parent who has major awards like show dog hall of fame, specialty wins, westminster wins or best in shows. 

The parents of the current litter both have just a specialist clearance (it should be a Cardiologist) and are doubled up on a potential eye issue as both share the same breeders option on eyes of Uveal Cyst. In my opinion both of those issues and the high price would make your litter a "walk away" for me.

Perhaps you may want to work on getting out there where you can meet and get to know other breeders. A lack if reputation does not equal a good one. This would be beneficial to you in so many ways. First, competing with your girl in any venue will start to build that reputation I am sure you want. It will help you develop a better eye for dogs in general and you will be amazed at how your thought process about potential pairings will change. You may be able to connect with a mentor who can be invaluable sharing knowledge especially of pedigree strengths and weakness that took years or decades to earn.

Welcome to the forum! I hope you stick around we have lots of areas other than the choosing a puppy section. You should check some out.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

K9lover1228 said:


> I would like to set the records straight on a post where you mentioned my stud dog Canyon Ridge Power Forward. He is prelim OFA excellent and will be getting his official clearances done just as soon as he is done with his training. He is in the prison pup program completing his advanced training to become a service dog. Yes, I should of gotten them done sooner, but I didn't.


Just curious if Hunter has been released from prison yet?  Looking forward to some happy news for all of his babies out there when dad gets his clearances.


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## Mitjones (Aug 17, 2013)

Any feedback from anyone on Star Crowned Goldens in Ridgecrest Ca.? All clearances appear to be performed but could use a better experienced eye on this to ensure the proper clearances are performed. Thank you.


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## Mitjones (Aug 17, 2013)

*Star Crowned Goldens*

I tried to proceed with Star Crowned Goldens but after to committing to a call at a time the breeder chose AND confirmed the breeder never answered for an hour. After multiple emails and a request to just tell to keep looking the breeder never responded. Very unprofessional. Can't believe this breeder can just treat people like this.


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## goldenfuzzball (Jun 19, 2014)

Mitjones said:


> I tried to proceed with Star Crowned Goldens but after to committing to a call at a time the breeder chose AND confirmed the breeder never answered for an hour. After multiple emails and a request to just tell to keep looking the breeder never responded. Very unprofessional. Can't believe this breeder can just treat people like this.


That's a shame. Thanks for reporting back, though.


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## Mitjones (Aug 17, 2013)

*Brandigold Kennels in Michigan*

Just got a male from Brandegold Goldens in Oxford Michigan. Jodi was great and pretty communicative. Best website and posted nice videos. Called back fa idly promptly. Love our new little guy. So much better than that rude clueless breeder from Starcrowned. Be warned of her. Leaves you hanging without a call or email. Hope she reads this.


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## Susan: w/ Summit we climb (Jun 12, 2014)

Debra Pardee was Summit's breeder. I believe you might call her a hobby breeder. She has only one litter per year, and she does a good job. We couldn't have asked for a more conscientious breeder. Both parents had successful show careers. She screens prospective buyers well. That was before I found this forum, and at the time I was not sufficiently aware of the specific problems to be avoided when breeding Goldens, other than eye and hip problems, but Debra is. I don't know how to interpret the OFA numbers. We wanted a pet that would be intelligent and curious with a lot of personality, and who would be able to go into the mountains with us, and that's just what we got. She didn't realize that he was also sweet and sensitive and a love bug who thinks he belongs in your lap. If you seem stressed, you'll be surprised with a sudden large smooch in the face. We couldn't be happier.

Edited to add: Father is Shadalane's Brand of Excellence #SR44279801
Mother is Royal Princess Lily #SR51273509


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## LBP (Dec 31, 2017)

I know it is a few years later.....and this was a very intense conversation, but what was the verdict on Canyon Ridge? Do the follow COE? Did they get all the certifications?


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

LJack said:


> Just curious if Hunter has been released from prison yet?  Looking forward to some happy news for all of his babies out there when dad gets his clearances.


YEARs have gone by- https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?quicksearch=SR69042107 still Hunter has no clearances. One might posit that he did not pass, or that the breedings done prior to clearances on prelims were not a good idea.


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## Winnie1213 (11 mo ago)

Susan: w/ Summit we climb said:


> Debra Pardee was Summit's breeder. I believe you might call her a hobby breeder. She has only one litter per year, and she does a good job. We couldn't have asked for a more conscientious breeder. Both parents had successful show careers. She screens prospective buyers well. That was before I found this forum, and at the time I was not sufficiently aware of the specific problems to be avoided when breeding Goldens, other than eye and hip problems, but Debra is. I don't know how to interpret the OFA numbers. We wanted a pet that would be intelligent and curious with a lot of personality, and who would be able to go into the mountains with us, and that's just what we got. She didn't realize that he was also sweet and sensitive and a love bug who thinks he belongs in your lap. If you seem stressed, you'll be surprised with a sudden large smooch in the face. We couldn't be happier.
> 
> Edited to add: Father is Shadalane's Brand of Excellence #SR44279801
> Mother is Royal Princess Lily #SR51273509


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## Winnie1213 (11 mo ago)

Our females golden’s grandmother is Royal Princess Lily!! And grandfather is Shadalane’s Brand of Excellence! She’s the best!! I was trying to find breeder close to her relative because she has been so amazing. Please let me know any recommendations because we are looking for a male
Pup that has similar bloodlines.


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