# CGC and TDI question...



## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

So we're training Mojo and Max to get their CGC and eventually get into TDI for therapy. We're working on them sitting and staying calm for petting and greeting right now. (It's VERY difficult...)

Well, Max sits well, and will sit there for a few seconds while being pet on the head and back, but then she'll gently roll onto her back to have her belly rubbed. She does this probably 8 out of 10 times. 

She's not crazy when she does it. It's a very calm thing.

Would this disqualify her, since she's not technically sitting or standing? 

Also, please give me some hope that they will eventually catch on that jumping and excitement don't get them pets. I have to put them into sit every time my stranger (usually my brother or my mom) try to pet them.


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

I'm not all that familiar w/ TDI tests - been 10 years since I had a TDI dog.

In the CGC test that would not be a problem unless she also submissively peed while she flipped over. Remember, in the CGC test she must start sitting - what would fail her is jumping on the evaluator.

Yes, they do eventually get to the point where they understand that sitting=petting and jumping does not...BUT you've got to be consistent in your training - and you've got to get them out of situations where the friendly stranger is going to allow jumping (and continue to pet them) or strangers that encourage jumping! The best advice I can give you is to step on the leash while you're practicing this with people you can't control (short enough that they can sit comfortably - but not long enough to jump up).

Erica


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## Doodle (Apr 6, 2009)

Oh isn't this so much fun??? We are currently doing exactly the same thing with Brady...in fact he goes for his CGC test next saturday and I'm trying to get him into a TDI test at the end of March! I don't know the answer to the rolling over question, so hopefully someone else will know the answer. I can tell you they will catch on to the no jumping thing. It takes awhile because they are such friendly excitable dogs, but they will get it. Brady is proof of that! I've been bringing him to pet friendly stores and walking up and down strip malls to practice, and it has made a world of difference. When you walk in a shopping area with a golden, there is always someone who will want to pet them, and if they don't want to, you can walk by at close distance to practice the "walking politely through a crowd." If you have someone you know with a dog nearby, ask them to help you practice the "reaction to another dog." That's another tough one for them. Good luck!


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

MurphyTeller said:


> I'm not all that familiar w/ TDI tests - been 10 years since I had a TDI dog.
> 
> In the CGC test that would not be a problem unless she also submissively peed while she flipped over. Remember, in the CGC test she must start sitting - what would fail her is jumping on the evaluator.
> 
> Erica


Ohhh, okay. Thanks! She doesn't tinkle, just tilts her head back with her tongue sticking out of the side of her mouth. LOL.


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

LOL, so you know exactly what I'm going through! I'll be wishing him luck on Saturday!! I know when it comes time for them to be tested... I'll be freaking out. LOL. 

They do really well with no jumping some days... but then others (like today) they just DON'T SEEM TO WANT TO SIT STILL. I'm going to be taking them to Petsmart once in a while to practice, and start walking them up and down Main street in my town, because it's always packed with tourists. I'm getting nervous about the "walking through a crowd" AND the "greeting another dog politely" thing. My problem with the greeting of another dog... ALL the dogs I know are crazy themselves and not trained well. They will go nuts which will make MINE go nuts. It was a fiasco the other night with their friend Duke, the GSD. 

Another tough one is the examination. They both are fine with being brushed and having their ears checked, but Mojo HATES his paws being touched. Max couldn't care less. 

Thanks, and good luck to you too! And Brady!



Doodle said:


> Oh isn't this so much fun??? We are currently doing exactly the same thing with Brady...in fact he goes for his CGC test next saturday and I'm trying to get him into a TDI test at the end of March! I don't know the answer to the rolling over question, so hopefully someone else will know the answer. I can tell you they will catch on to the no jumping thing. It takes awhile because they are such friendly excitable dogs, but they will get it. Brady is proof of that! I've been bringing him to pet friendly stores and walking up and down strip malls to practice, and it has made a world of difference. When you walk in a shopping area with a golden, there is always someone who will want to pet them, and if they don't want to, you can walk by at close distance to practice the "walking politely through a crowd." If you have someone you know with a dog nearby, ask them to help you practice the "reaction to another dog." That's another tough one for them. Good luck!


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## Doodle (Apr 6, 2009)

Mssjnnfer said:


> My problem with the greeting of another dog... ALL the dogs I know are crazy themselves and not trained well. They will go nuts which will make MINE go nuts.
> Another tough one is the examination. They both are fine with being brushed and having their ears checked, but Mojo HATES his paws being touched.!


I've been told by a CGC examiner that they all pretty much use dogs that are very docile for that part of the test to give your dog the best chance of passing. As for the paws, I would start asking your "practice" people to also ask him to shake or whatever your command is, and have them start handling his paws after they pet him. This will hopefully get him used to it.


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

Doodle said:


> I've been told by a CGC examiner that they all pretty much use dogs that are very docile for that part of the test to give your dog the best chance of passing. As for the paws, I would start asking your "practice" people to also ask him to shake or whatever your command is, and have them start handling his paws after they pet him. This will hopefully get him used to it.


That's good! Maybe it's a good thing they are getting practice with crazy dogs... they won't even notice a calm one. :doh: LOL!

He loves to shake. That would work really well, too. Would the evaluator be able to ask him to shake too? Or... would they just pick the paws up? I guess that wouldn't matter, either. If he's used to having them handled.


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

Doodle said:


> I've been told by a CGC examiner that they all pretty much use dogs that are very docile for that part of the test to give your dog the best chance of passing. As for the paws, I would start asking your "practice" people to also ask him to shake or whatever your command is, and have them start handling his paws after they pet him. This will hopefully get him used to it.


Honestly, most CGC evaluators have dogs that are push-button for the meet a friendly dog part of the test. Murphy has done so many of these (in class and in tests) that he trots out in heel position, sits smartly (and patiently) while the handler sorts out their dog (or in the first few weeks of class while the dog climbs on Murphy), after the handshake he does exactly four more steps then runs for his cookie. WHen I'm testing I usually have a helper (Murphy's holder). I call him to me when it's time for that exercise (and he KNOWS that his turn is after the wait/recall), he does his job and then I drop the leash so he can go back to his cookie person/holder.

If by chance the other dog isn't as above and it causes a problem you should ask for a re-do.

Honestly most folks "Need training" (AKC doesn't like the word "fail") in either the supervised separation and the friendly stranger (no dog). Mostly because the friendly stranger (evaluator) is often the first exercise and the handlers are nervous.

It's just the CGC - it's not a metric of your dog. It's something we do with our dogs for fun. Remember that you get to take the two best training aids into the test with you: your hands and your voice. Use them - Tell your dog that he's a good boy (or girl). Enjoy the test and enjoy your dog. You'll get there. 

Erica


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## rappwizard (May 27, 2009)

I would practice with actual strangers, rather than members of your family.

You may have one golden curl up and roll over on it's belly after a few scratches on the nuzzle by a family member--but in an actual test, greeting a stranger, may not do it at all, and you'll have worried about it for nothing.

Or, and I tend to play a lot of "what if's," your golden may go into the test, and hit the ground right away once a stranger approaches--and you won't get a sit at all. 

Plus, with your family, you're probably setting up the test inside your home; the CGC's I took were in a variety of places, but mostly outside in fields and parks--one was inside, in an empty ring at a dog show. You will have a better idea as to how your dogs will perform if you get outside your home and practice because you and your dogs will have to handle distractions--and you'll have be ready for them. JMHO.


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## Doodle (Apr 6, 2009)

rappwizard said:


> I would practice with actual strangers, rather than members of your family.
> 
> Plus, with your family, you're probably setting up the test inside your home; the CGC's I took were in a variety of places, but mostly outside in fields and parks--one was inside, in an empty ring at a dog show. You will have a better idea as to how your dogs will perform if you get outside your home and practice because you and your dogs will have to handle distractions--and you'll have be ready for them. JMHO.


I agree! I actually found that Brady did much better when I started practicing with strangers and in a variety of different places. It really helped him to generalize.


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

It may also be helpful to take pictures of the rolling over bit and either share here or closely evaluate each piece of body language given. Most dogs I've met that do a roll over are not happy and relaxed but have some level of anxiety.

Sitting for petting. Have her sitting. Have your volunteer 15ft away. Feed a treat, literally, at least every second. Have your visitor slowly approach. If your dog gets interested or waggy, the volunteer stops moving (eye contact away), you stop feeding until she redirects to you, then feed feed feed as the person approaches. When the person is able to get all the way up to you... repeat. Repeat this lots. Then have the visitor calmly feed a biscuit while right up to both of you. Feed as the visitor leaves. (You don't want jumping then either!). Lots of practice. Then, start to slow down the amount of feeding. 

If your dog is excited while people are approaching...wildness is reinforced. And that's not what you want!


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## jimla (Oct 9, 2008)

We are also training Roxy and Elliot for the CGC test. I talked to the evaluator in our area, and she suggested that we take her intermediate obedience class. She does exercises that are similar to the CGC test. We had our first class last week and it was very helpful to train our dogs not to react to other dogs and people walking around.

Roxy usually lays down when I have her sit-stay and walk away. I trained her to hold the sit position by slowly increasing the stay time and repositioning her if she lays down.

Good luck on the CGC!


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