# Help: Looking for healthy Red Golden or Irish/Gold puppies



## inge (Sep 20, 2009)

Where are you located? USA is a bit vague...And welcome!


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## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

I don't know of any golden retriever/irish setter mixes, if that's what you're looking for. Petfinder might have something like that though. For darker coloured goldens, there's field breeders who usually have the darker dogs over the show lines.


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## KaptainFantastiK (Dec 14, 2010)

many thanks!!

we are experienced and loving dog owners although currently we are without. After much deliberating we are hoping for a red goldie or irish setter/goldie hybrid

we are located in the North East but more than happy to travel 

I hope this was the appropriate place to post such a request

we would be very grateful for any assistance

hope everyone is staying warm


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

If you really want to go the way of an Irish Setter/Golden Retriever mix, you best bet is to look for a rescue, as I cannot recommend any "breeder" who would deliberately breed those two dogs together.

What type of personality dog are you looking for? What energy level?


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## KaptainFantastiK (Dec 14, 2010)

we would really like a red golden so maybe the Irish S. is misleading. I've just been seeing a lot of them online that are incredibly beautiful and healthy

we live in the country and have an active lifestyle so the energy level is flexible, but a pup to take swimming, play with my daughter, take hiking, etc but not so much nervous energy like a terrier 

does that help?


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## KaptainFantastiK (Dec 14, 2010)

so a darker red color but temperament for family is paramount


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

A responsible breeder who would be able to sell healthy puppies with full clearances would not be producing mixed breeds. And I wouldn't mention Irish Golden mixes to good breeders or even owners of reds.  

I'm not sure about their reputation right now or if they are still breeding a lot, but one of my reddish guys had a lot of Kiowa in his background thanks to his mom. She was a gorgeous redhead. I know they are out in CT. 

As far as reddish goldens - there are good field golden breeders out there who might be able to help you. Depending on which state you are in, I'm sure people here on GRF might be able to tell you who might have a litter of puppies right now.


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## Willow52 (Aug 14, 2009)

Welcome to the forum!

My first golden was a redhead, they are relatively easy to find without crossing the breeds. 

Check out the "Choosing a Breeder & Puppy" sub forum. There is a lot of helpful information to get you started.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

First , please they are not irish setters, if you want a mix breed, go to petfinder, if you want a red golden, from a breeder that does clearences, join the crowd, i to want one, i live in maine, they are hard to find, here.


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## joysgirls (Oct 16, 2010)

We just rescued a beautiful 3 yr old female red golden retriever from Delaware Valley Golden Retriever Rescue in Pa.(www. same with .org at end), beautiful, smart, lovey.Give rescue a try!!


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

I believe the breeder is planning to repeat the breeding that produced these guys....











There are a few of these that are now as dark as their father
http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=75749


The litter pedigree is
http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=357394

.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

Hello and welcome... 

I understand your love of the redheads... I wanted one, too, ten years ago. After careful research, I found two fabulous breeders who matched a dark, dark red head with a medium golden. No luck. All the pups were gold. I did wind up with the darkest, but as you can see, she is no red head. And you know what? Colour means nothing. She's the best dog in the world.

What am I saying? I get the want of red - I truly do. BUT, based on experience, I can highly recommend finding a good breeder, with clearances and breeding for excellent temperment, and you will not go wrong. Besides, they're all beautiful. Hazard of being a Golden.


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## KaptainFantastiK (Dec 14, 2010)

thank you all for your insight and advice. we greatly appreciate the help

very true that there are far more important things than the color of your new loved one

we have made calls and inquiries across the country and locally, it has been fun and we are SO excited!

thx to all for taking the time to reply

we are greatly looking forward to sharing our home with a Golden and the devotion and companionship they so generously provide


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> we are greatly looking forward to sharing our home with a Golden and the devotion and companionship they so generously provide


Just remember that the devotion and companionship comes with time and care. Sometimes it takes three or four years before you find yourself with a real golden retriever instead of a energizer bunny x land shark. The dog you get is what you put into it with careful training, companionship, patience, and love.


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## Luci (May 26, 2009)

Megora said:


> Just remember that the devotion and companionship comes with time and care. Sometimes it takes three or four years before you find yourself with a real golden retriever instead of a energizer bunny x land shark. The dog you get is what you put into it with careful training, companionship, patience, and love.


 
But it all pays off in the end if you do those things and it's so rewarding to know that the amazing dog you have is a result of your time and efforts!


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## Adriennelane (Feb 13, 2008)

I've seen ads for "breeders" who breed the mixes, but wouldn't recommend them. Look on petfinder.com.


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## GoldenMum (Mar 15, 2010)

Look into rescue please...there is a beautiful redhead in a Tennessee shelter who desperately needs a family.......look in the rescue cases section here...I have two Goldies and two Redheads...they are all fantastic pups...good luck!


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## Augustus McCrae's Mom (Aug 14, 2007)

KaptainFantastiK said:


> we have made calls and inquiries across the country and locally, it has been fun and we are SO excited!


If you're looking across the country, please don't choose someone who 'ships' their dogs to you!

Good luck with your search. You've come to the right place for advice


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## boomers_dawn (Sep 20, 2009)

I think the idea of checking Petfinder or rescues is good, also maybe try contacting the Irish Setter rescues and Golden rescues in the New England area to see if they have any Golden or Irish mixes, they are easy to find with a Google search online. Lots of times I notice the Golden rescues have Golden mixes, I'm sure the Irish rescues get the same. 

I hope you find the perfect dog who needs a home no matter where you find them! Good luck.


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## KaptainFantastiK (Dec 14, 2010)

we are exploring rescues in our search as well. 

In principle we would prefer that however having a dog with some known heritage and access to feedback from owners who have acquired their pups from a potential breeder has some merit. 

Then again I have never bought a dog for that kind of money or from a breeder and all the dogs we have had have been wonderful and lived long hearty lives 

So there are considerations in both regards. Only this time we have our daughter to consider 

There is a heartbreaking amount of dogs that need good homes but Goldies rank #3 in the bite rankings, which is a compelling thought. Certainly their popularity contributes to that

So we are doing our homework with diligence 

again, many thanks for the encouraging remarks and warm welcomes! There is a wealth of info and support here which we have found to be incredibly helpful and a great insight . . . lots of wisdom, sweetness, and good intentions


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> There is a heartbreaking amount of dogs that need good homes but Goldies rank #3 in the bite rankings, which is a compelling thought. Certainly their popularity contributes to that


Could be poor breeding.... but I kinda think it's because most inexperienced owners are told to go with golden retrievers, and some people think that they are getting a dog that is naturally good natured and ideal for families. 

The problem is that they are intelligent dogs and if you go with a puppy you will find yourself with a little monster if you do not nip the unwanted behaviors in the bud early on. 

Either that or you have people who assume their child is safe to be left unmonitored with a young dog. So, the child is allowed to hang on the dog, pull the dog, hit the dog, kick the dog, sit on the dog which could cause defensive behavior from the dog. 

The same is true when you have people who buy dogs for their children to train. Which is fine with some responsible and mature kids (the 4H types), but not all of them. In most cases, the kids get bored and either mistreat the dogs or ignore them. And the dog starts growling and nipping and learns to snarl. 

Other dog bites happen when strangers rush up to greet an untrained or unsocialized golden because they think all goldens are love bears.

Goldens are good natured and sweet dogs, but they get ruined just like any other breed with lack of training and when circumstances pile up. 

^ The above is a worst case scenario, of course.


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## booklady (Mar 3, 2009)

Plus, goldens are very, very popular. With the shear numbers of them, the bite count looks high but the percentage of goldens who bite is probably lower.


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## Braccarius (Sep 8, 2008)

The dog most likely to bite you is a dachsund with 1 in 4 having bitten someone. The thing about bite statistics is that they are exceptionally skewed for quite a few reasons. 

- Number of dogs owned of a particular breed (most popular breeds have higher bite counts)
- Small dog bias
- Unreported incidents

Harley could break my arm if he bit me as hard as he could... a little dog such as a chihuahua would have trouble breaking skin through clothes. If I'm not injured it doesn't count toward bite statistics. Small dogs like dachsunds may viciously attack someone but when it doesn't require hospitalization it is not represented in statistics. A Golden Retriever, if it bites you, is going to cause serious damage beyond what dogs of equal size are capable of due to their breeding. A golden's bite pressure is exceptionally high for the size of dog compared to that of say a poodle, setter or even a NSDTR.

Don't believe everything statistics say... they lie.

*EDIT* As well... people seem to encourage their children to hug, pet and accost Golden Retrievers more than any other breed. I have had children run up behind my two and hug them without even asking me if they were vicious or would bite. Harley and Miri loved it, but my old Golden calvin would have lost his mind...


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Augustus McCrae's Mom said:


> If you're looking across the country, please don't choose someone who 'ships' their dogs to you!


I wouldn't let that be the only thing that prevents me from using a particular breeder. Plenty of good breeders ship pups if the weather is appropriate.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Braccarius said:


> I have had children run up behind my two and hug them without even asking me if they were vicious or would bite.


People allow their children to do this WAY too often. Fortunately, my dogs really are kid-friendly, but when people let their kids do this, they're asking for a stern lecture from me about safety. It's the dog who will pay the ultimate price when the child is injured, even if it's the parents' fault that the situation happened.


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## ladyhawk (Mar 9, 2010)

I was blessed to have a Golden and Irish cross 27 years ago. She looked exactly like my field bred boy I have now. They are/were both my heart and soul dogs. 

I dabble in looking at field bred lines and really like the Top brass lines. Another that produces top obedience dogs is Tanbark. 

The poster above has what I consider to be the most gorgeous goldens and would love to know their breeding.


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## Kally76 (Jun 14, 2010)

tippykayak said:


> People allow their children to do this WAY too often. Fortunately, my dogs really are kid-friendly, but when people let their kids do this, they're asking for a stern lecture from me about safety. It's the dog who will pay the ultimate price when the child is injured, even if it's the parents' fault that the situation happened.


This is so true! My daughter had pet day at her school. I took my dog Ranger. I knew ahead of time what I was going to be getting into. Fortunately, he doesn't think he can get enough hugs and kisses. But, what I couldn't believe were the parents. They actually were encouraging their kids to hug him. It really was unbelievable to me. And might I note...they had a completely different attitude towards the German Shephard on the other side of the room.


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## KatieandAngie (Dec 24, 2008)

Braccarius said:


> *EDIT* As well... people seem to encourage their children to hug, pet and accost Golden Retrievers more than any other breed. I have had children run up behind my two and hug them without even asking me if they were vicious or would bite.


This is so true of people period when it comes to Goldens. It's just the reputation (well deserved) that the breed has for being a people dog. I know I'm biased but I watch the way Angie and Chance behave around children, old folks, the infirm, etc... and it is indeed something else.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

I think tippykayak , does have very pretty red goldens.


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## richiespaghetti (Dec 23, 2010)

My wife and I, just last Wednesday, got a beautiful Golden Irish pup, 7 months old. He came from Ovon's Kennels (Rebecca) in San Angelo, TX. He flew Continental from Dallas to Newark, NJ non-stop. He is a treasure..... sleeps all night in his crate, sits, downs, stays, and heals a little. You couldn't ask for a better temperament, and he is affectionate. We are retired people who lost our German Shepherd a year ago and it took us this long to realize we NEEDED a pup. This pup is a Godsend. Good luck.


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

richiespaghetti said:


> My wife and I, just last Wednesday, got a beautiful Golden Irish pup, 7 months old. He came from Ovon's Kennels (Rebecca) in San Angelo, TX. He flew Continental from Dallas to Newark, NJ non-stop. He is a treasure..... sleeps all night in his crate, sits, downs, stays, and heals a little. You couldn't ask for a better temperament, and he is affectionate. We are retired people who lost our German Shepherd a year ago and it took us this long to realize we NEEDED a pup. This pup is a Godsend. Good luck.


 
Your breeders are not what I would consider reputable. There is no such thing, as has been discussed as an Irish Golden. It is similar to the designer dog phase seen in 'golden doodles.' No reputable breeder with good lines would muddy their dogs in this type of breeding.While I'm sure that your dog makes you happy, and that you love him- he did not come from the best of circumstances, I would suspect. If that's him mentioned/pictured on the website, he's cute but so are goldens and irish setters separately, and so are mixes from a shelter or rescue. Were the sire/dam hips, elbows, eyes and heart clear? These are all HUGE problems in the two breeds that need to be addressed.

Ovon's Golden Irish​Contact: Rebecca
San Angelo, Tx 76904
UNITED STATES
*Phone: *325-450-9604
*Email: *[email protected]


Golden Irish, Ovon's Golden Irish, Dog Breed Info Center®


> *RED (collar color) is a 7 month old Golden Irish, neutered male with dew claws removed. He is agressively going after squirrels in our backyard...50 lbs...he is an f1 (first generation) no inbreeding or line breeding. Grandson of "Runneymeade Fly like an Eagle" His brother Cabo at 5 months was successful on a Dove hunt, brother MR Z is bringing home squirrels and chipmunks. All shots current and on flea/tick, heart worm preventative...whelped 5-3-2010 litter of 13 HEALTHY PUPS..raised in home not barn..Appearance--slender irish setter head and body, soft coat, feathers....has blonde shading on throat,hips beside tail, toe feathers and shoulders, belly is a light strawberry blonde with rest of coat a strawberry blonde.. GREEN EYES.*_Loves to get on or in something to nap._





> *e is an intact male 7 month Golden Irish. Had dew claws removed at 3 days of age by vet. He is a real wiggle butt, mid 50's in weight...all shots current...and on flea/tick and heart worm preventative...*
> 
> *Abie my female Irish setter should breed in the next 3 months, we had 13 health puppies last time..but 3 ONLY FEMALES...they will be first come basis. She generally nurses her pups for 8 weeks...*


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

*



GREEN EYES.Loves to get on or in something to nap.

Click to expand...

Do they breed cats too? 





She generally nurses her pups for 8 weeks...

Click to expand...

Does this mean they aren't weaned onto dry kibble when they are brought home? *


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## Kally76 (Jun 14, 2010)

Check this one out....

HOME - AKC GOLDEN RETRIEVER AND IRISH SETTER PUPPIES


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

Kally76 said:


> Check this one out....
> 
> HOME - AKC GOLDEN RETRIEVER AND IRISH SETTER PUPPIES


Ick! I also am irritated by the incorrect use of the word "hybrid." Hybrid means 2 different species mixing. Last time I checked, both setters and goldens were canines. :doh:



> UKCI REGISTERED
> GOLDEN RETREIVER / IRISH SETTER
> MIX / CROSS / HYBRID
> Planned Breedings!!


What does this even mean? UKCI.... Did someone just make that up?


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## Kally76 (Jun 14, 2010)

Yeah, I know how you feel. I saw that and it just made me cringe!


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

Ka-ching! Ka-ching! Ka-ching! Hear those cash registers ring. Is this the latest designer dog to be exploited?


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Kally76 said:


> Check this one out....
> 
> HOME - AKC GOLDEN RETRIEVER AND IRISH SETTER PUPPIES


If they are mixed breeds, then they are not AKC. 

It should be Golden Retriever and Irish Setter mix puppies. :uhoh: These are glorified backyard breeders who are breeding mixed breeds for $$$$.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

CarolinaCasey said:


> Ick! I also am irritated by the incorrect use of the word "hybrid." Hybrid means 2 different species mixing. Last time I checked, both setters and goldens were canines.


Just FYI - in dog breeding, you're right that they don't use the term hybrid to describe a cross within the species. However, in biology (particularly botany and ornithology), mixing two varieties in the same species can be considered hybridization. So, technically, when they call an Irish/Golden mix a hybrid, they're not misusing the word.

However, any claims that imply that hybridization of this type always results in "hybrid vigor" or anything on that theme is highly misleading. If, in the cross, some of the animals produced come out with the best of both varieties or are otherwise better suited for survival (or for what the people are breeding them for), that's considered hybrid vigor. 

However, it's just as likely that the cross produces some animals who are less healthy and less suited for survival. If you're breeding for traits and don't mind culling these undesirable animals, then you're working with hybrid vigor. If you're producing a litter of puppies and selling all of them, some _may_ be superior to both parents (hybrid vigor) and some may inherit an increase of bad traits from both (outbreeding depression).

Hybrid vigor does NOT mean hybrids are automatically superior, particularly when a bad breeder matches up uncleared dogs or the unhealthy dogs that bad breeders tend to use.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

goldensrbest said:


> I think tippykayak , does have very pretty red goldens.


Thanks. I think they're pretty too.


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## richiespaghetti (Dec 23, 2010)

WOW!!! Some of you folks area little edgy. Think about this. *This thread was started by folks looking for a Golden Retriever/Irish Setter mix.* I don't think anyone who owns one of these MUTTS cares one iota whether they have PAPERS. I know I don't. It is obvious the are mixed breeds. 
Listen, I have a pup that is awesome and my vet said I hit the lottery. And I'm very happy and this Christmas is very special to me. And I wish you all the same.


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## AlanK (Jun 28, 2008)

richiespaghetti said:


> WOW!!! Some of you folks area little edgy. Think about this. *This thread was started by folks looking for a Golden Retriever/Irish Setter mix.* I don't think anyone who owns one of these MUTTS cares one iota whether they have PAPERS. I know I don't. It is obvious the are mixed breeds.
> Listen, I have a pup that is awesome and my vet said I hit the lottery. And I'm very happy and this Christmas is very special to me. And I wish you all the same.


Most are not "edgy" they are concerned about irresponsible, uncaring, money seeking people who care NOT about any proper breeding standards or the health and longevity of a dog.

Rescue and adoption is totally different story. I have a wonderful Golden/Red something or other boy with no papers or registration and he is the champion of all!
Have a merry Christmas and congrats on the pup.!


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## Oaklys Dad (Dec 28, 2005)

Well put Alan! 



AlanK said:


> Most are not "edgy" they are concerned about irresponsible, uncaring, money seeking people who care NOT about any proper breeding standards or the health and longevity of a dog.
> 
> Rescue and adoption is totally different story. I have a wonderful Golden/Red something or other boy with no papers or registration and he is the champion of all!
> Have a merry Christmas and congrats on the pup.!


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

Let me understand this, they are breeding, goldens, and irish setters, to get a red golden? There are red goldens, any how, so why do this?


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

I own a mixed breed dog. I love her to pieces. However, I didn't pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for her. She isn't the latest 'designer' breed, and I have seen only a couple of others like her (she is yellow Lab/beagle). Deliberately breeding two different breeds of dogs and giving them a fancy name (Irish golden?) is what has people upset. Irresponsible breeders gets people upset. Caring only about the money to be made by breeding 'puggles' or 'comfort goldens' or 'golden doodles' gets people upset.


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## Oaklys Dad (Dec 28, 2005)

My first dog as an adult was a golden/setter mix so I do have a soft spot for the mix but as far as doing an intentional breeding I think it is a mistake. I got this dog from the pound. I thought she was mostly golden when I picked her but it turns out once got the mats out and got her on a decent diet she was probably more irish setter. There is a lot to be said for leaving the breeding to those that are in the game to produce the absolute best golden retriever possible.


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## richiespaghetti (Dec 23, 2010)

I don't know why anyone would mix the two breeds. They have their reasons, I suppose. Here's what I know. I have seen a few Tom Sellick "Jesse Stone" TV mystery movies over the years. I always admired his dog in the movie named Reggie. So after a year of grieving the loss of my "paperless" German Shepherd, I decided it was time to get a pup.....like Reggie. So I Googled the movie title and found out that Reggie was an actor dog named Joe the Dog (many film credits), and he was an Irish Setter/Golden Retriever mix. So I made some phone calls, checked references, spoke to trainers, vets, and owners of litter mates, and trusted the breeder, who is one of the nicest people I've ever met. And it all worked out. I got exactly what I wanted....which is exactly what the starter of this thread wants.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Jackson'sMom said:


> I own a mixed breed dog. I love her to pieces. However, I didn't pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for her. She isn't the latest 'designer' breed, and I have seen only a couple of others like her (she is yellow Lab/beagle). Deliberately breeding two different breeds of dogs and giving them a fancy name (Irish golden?) is what has people upset. Irresponsible breeders gets people upset. Caring only about the money to be made by breeding 'puggles' or 'comfort goldens' or 'golden doodles' gets people upset.


Exactly. 

The other thing is this is a golden retriever forum. 

I'm sure I'm not the only one who LOVES hearing about people and their adopted dogs who aren't papered or even purebred golden retriever. All dogs are wonderful. But I get barfy when I hear about "designer" breeders ripping off people. 

I have an intact male golden. He does not have full registration, which means that if I bred him to another golden, the litter could not be registered. This is something that good breeders do to control what happens to the puppies they sell. 

I like to think this dissuades irresponsible breeding by anyone who buys a golden or some other breed. 

But if I wanted to make a bit of money off of fads like this, there would not be a huge deal if I bred my golden to somebody's Irish setter. Regardless of the temperament of my golden, his health issues, or even how close he is to the breed standard. Nobody would expect papers anyway.


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## richiespaghetti (Dec 23, 2010)

Megora said:


> Exactly.
> 
> The other thing is this is a golden retriever forum.
> 
> ...


I now understand this is a Golden Retriever forum. As I explained earlier, I ended up here by Googling Golden Irish puppies. My mistake and I am sorry if I offended anyone. I don't know about designer dogs or fads or anyone getting ripped off. I certainly wasn't. So, I'll be leaving and I sincerely wish you all the best and Happy Holidays.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

richiespaghetti said:


> WOW!!! Some of you folks area little edgy. Think about this. *This thread was started by folks looking for a Golden Retriever/Irish Setter mix.* I don't think anyone who owns one of these MUTTS cares one iota whether they have PAPERS. I know I don't. It is obvious the are mixed breeds.
> Listen, I have a pup that is awesome and my vet said I hit the lottery. And I'm very happy and this Christmas is very special to me. And I wish you all the same.


Nobody is mad that the dogs don't have papers. There was one comment that it's a lie to say that a mutt can be AKC registered, and that's simply the truth. Beyond that, though, this isn't an abstract argument about registration.

What makes people angry is selling dogs with increased health risks and lying about it or charging a lot or both. You have a group of people here who are very passionate about protecting buyers from getting ripped off and, more importantly protecting dogs from suffering.

It's not about health. It's about unnecessary pain and suffering being inflicted on dogs. That makes people upset, and it should.


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

tippykayak said:


> Nobody is mad that the dogs don't have papers. There was one comment that it's a lie to say that a mutt can be AKC registered, and that's simply the truth. Beyond that, though, this isn't an abstract argument about registration.
> 
> What makes people angry is selling dogs with increased health risks and lying about it or charging a lot or both. You have a group of people here who are very passionate about protecting buyers from getting ripped off and, more importantly protecting dogs from suffering.
> 
> It's not about health. It's about unnecessary pain and suffering being inflicted on dogs. That makes people upset, and it should.


Very well said, Tippy!!


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## John G (Dec 27, 2008)

Not sure if the OP is still viewing this thread? Most that spend the time to view these dog forums are very involved with their dog(s). Those that post are even more so.

With that said, strong opinions naturally evolve. I understand your physical desires for a dark red dog. I also agree with wanting a dog with a nice temperament. I think the problem is in defining this. 

Setters are generally bred for certain attributes, Goldens-for others. Certainly you could get lucky with a Golden/Irish Setter mix. Most knowledgeable breeders tend to believe that you are decreasing your odds of getting what you want from such a mix.

When mixing two completely different traits, you usually get one trait or the other. Seldom do you get a trait right in the middle of those exhibited by the parents.

I own a very dark red field Golden that is as accomplished as they get. This does not mean that he is perfect, nor are his offspring (No such thing as a PERFECT dog). He, and his offspring are pretty close for what I want which is a competitive field trial dog that I can hunt with and is a good in house family pet.

My definition of a perfect dog and the OPs are probably quite different, yet maybe closer than most would think. Health, temperament, brains, birdiness, looks should be important to us all. 

Some would dismiss the prey drive/birdiness but this is what makes Goldens love to retrieve and work with us. This is part of the definition of a Golden Retriever.

The Irish Setter was originally a working pointing dog. Their beauty ultimately led to their demise as looks trumped ability,health and brains. Today Irish Setters are all but gone from competitive field trials and serious hunters. This is a very real risk with Goldens as well.

Some breeders have attempted to bring back the hunting instinct in Irish setters by producing a "Red Setter". They are not the same and don't have the looks of an Irish Setter, but do tend to be better in the field.

Good Luck in your search. I'm sure their are some nice Golden/Setter crosses out there. You will be able to get some clearances, but not all. I know there are some very nice dark Goldens out there. Getting all the clearances is very possible, as is finding one with the other attributes you might want.

Merry Christmas
John


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## KatieandAngie (Dec 24, 2008)

John G said:


> Not sure if the OP is still viewing this thread? Most that spend the time to view these dog forums are very involved with their dog(s). Those that post are even more so.
> 
> With that said, strong opinions naturally evolve. I understand your physical desires for a dark red dog. I also agree with wanting a dog with a nice temperament. I think the problem is in defining this.
> 
> ...


 
That is such a shame especially when you consider that the Irish Setter was one of the breeds used to create the Golden Retriever...


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