# December Hunt and Field Training



## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

It is December already! Where did the year go?


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Went pretty fast for me.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Alaska

Stacey, what is new in the puppy department?


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Next week... The name will be Spin or Spinner. Male. Hope he's a terror and stands up to Lucy.


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

Cant wait to see all the photos and watch him grow up, Stacey!


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Careful what you name them!!

A few times in the past week or so Bally has watched a mark go down, then flick his eyes back on the gunner, of course half the time I'm a dumb handler and send him which never goes well, but the past few days I've just worked on simple marks and getting him to really focus on the fall. Of course he's done fine. Today we did 5 short water marks all angling down the shore. The last one was in the water but past two points. Bally actively avoided the points LOL 
We set up a very short blind about 30 yards but down a shore and only off the water's edge by about 6-8 feet. Bally has done this as a marked blind/angle entry drill, probably 10 days or so ago. This time he did it cold, no marker, had to be handled one time as he was actually going fat, but his line in was perfect. Backed up about 20 yards off the water, and then Kristin went halfway out down the shore and pitched a bumper into the water down the middle of the channel. Picked up the mark, then re-ran the blind which was now a very tight down the shore blind under the arc of the mark. Bally lined it! Looked right down the middle no problem.

Bill showed up and set up his Old Reliable Mark which is angling down the shore of a channel, dog has to enter the end of the channel and swim down one side. He runs this thing all the time. We've built it up for Bally, today he ran from up on the road which is a 100+ yards land before you get to the channel. Bally nailed it, he's done this enough. Time to back up and put him through the end of the pond behind the road, up over the road and on. I think.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Retriever classes started back up on Saturdays last weekend. The new dog mobile is almost finished. I'll post photos when DH has the front end rebuilt and ready to go. It's a 2001 Ford E350 econoline extra long van. 2 RV seats in the front. All big and wide open the rest of the way back. 4 wheel drive. High top allows DH (6'2" tall) to stand up inside. Removed the old wheelchair lift but left the doors on to allow easy loading. Should be great for DH snow bike/mountain bike races. Next snow bike race is Jan. 2.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

So cold blinds it is. Snuck out of work on Thursday right before sunset at 3:30. It wasn't the best light but the snow on the ground does a good job of reflecting what light there is. Ran 140 yd blind. Since I've never run another dog in blinds I was extremely awkward. We go through it. Scalloping all over. Then ran her a blind back to the pile at the line. Each time she found the bumper she was so excited! Wow! She didn't take each cast perfectly. So Friday night I turned the outside lights on, moved the equipment out of the yard and ran some double T. She was just fine on all the casts. I even had her pick up a bumper, sit, then drop the bumper and cast her to a different pile. She was super good. It's almost as if the cold blinds Thursday improved her drills on Friday. Today is class tomorrow is training group and help with blinds. I just wish Lucy was consistent, but that's probably more my problem than hers.


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

Stacey how are the cold blinds coming along? I am sure she did better at T knowing that there was a purpose to it.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Saturday class was just drills. The ice fog was too thick to run marks or blinds if you could imagine. Today was set up a senior test 2 marks, 1 blind, with 2 additional sight blinds at 70 yards. I chickened out on the cold blind and just did the sight blinds. I got in one excellent correction on the honor. 2nd time she honored, she was a good little angel. The photo is the field we ran in today. The white you see is all the results of the ice fog blowing in off the ocean.


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

girl why did you chicken out???? COME ON!! LOL! If I can get up in front of some of the men I do you can run a senior blind in training! You can do it!


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Beautiful picture, Stacey!

This weekend was our clubs' combined AKC/HRC test in Montverde. We pulled it off! LOL Perfect weather. Had a great time. Bally got to run test dog for senior both days. 

Tomorrow we head for Eukanuba and will be there the whole week. No field training. Bally and KC are being shown in breed, Slater in the obedience classic. My obedience friends from up north arrived yesterday, we've already had one training session. Fun stuff!!


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

Have fun and good luck Anney!


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Anney
Good luck at the shows. Please post some photos of your time there. 

MOP,
Yes I am a big chicken.


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

A couple of weeks ago, I opened the back of my dog car, surprised myself with the sight of my field training equipment and realized, "oh yeah, I train dogs".

I haven't been out in over a month, except once to my trainer's. When the weather gets better in the spring, I think I'll focus on keeping Molly's current skills intact to hopefully get her SH, and if not, that's OK too, but we are going to take the winter off. Also going to work on rebuilding confidence on her blinds.


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## NicoleGold (Dec 8, 2015)

Vhuynh2's comment about taking the winter off makes me wonder - for other people on here that live in areas of bad weather, what type of training schedule do you keep? Do other people take the winter off? Are there drills or scenarios you set up to make the most of limited training time? Back at the end of October/beginning of November when my boys were looking and running well, my husband and I were training on average 4 times a week. We'd meet with a training group on the weekend, and we'd get out after work in the evenings together. Now that it's too dark to train after work, we can really only get out 2 times a week on the weekends. Little things are already not looking as good as they did - a couple cast refusals here and there, not holding a line as far, etc. 

We're new to field training and this is going to be our first winter trying to train a dog for more than junior (last winter I had one dog who had just finished his JH and one dog who I was hoping to run in junior in the spring; going in to this winter, I have one dog with 2 SH passes and one with 2 MH passes). Any winter training suggestions or ideas for keeping them sharp and ready for the spring?


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

NicoleGold said:


> Vhuynh2's comment about taking the winter off makes me wonder - for other people on here that live in areas of bad weather, what type of training schedule do you keep? Do other people take the winter off? Are there drills or scenarios you set up to make the most of limited training time? Back at the end of October/beginning of November when my boys were looking and running well, my husband and I were training on average 4 times a week. We'd meet with a training group on the weekend, and we'd get out after work in the evenings together. Now that it's too dark to train after work, we can really only get out 2 times a week on the weekends. Little things are already not looking as good as they did - a couple cast refusals here and there, not holding a line as far, etc.
> 
> We're new to field training and this is going to be our first winter trying to train a dog for more than junior (last winter I had one dog who had just finished his JH and one dog who I was hoping to run in junior in the spring; going in to this winter, I have one dog with 2 SH passes and one with 2 MH passes). Any winter training suggestions or ideas for keeping them sharp and ready for the spring?


I have the same dilemma and am hoping for a mild winter. With my work schedule I can only train on weekends. Few times during the summer I left early to train in the evening. 
My second issue is that if it snows it would be impossible to get to the training place so we will be limited to the back yard. 
So if just cold I am planning to go out on weekends, if snow then we will take that time to work on obedience. Have not been at obedience classes for quite some time.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

Not much field training going on around here all the grounds are flooded and more rain on the way. 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=h74HkjrhJx8

Shoot, I guess I'll have to work on our UD skills.


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

ugh yeah no way you can train on that, Holly! Holy smokes! Can you hunt that though?


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Friday we trained on downhill marks. First was on the hillside, second in the valley, the third was up on the hill through the trees. Both Thor and Buffy did these. It was interesting to compare Buffy with Thor. Actually they both marked well. I had to adjust the uphill mark because the trees hid the arc of the bumper from view.

(Testing. My first diagram ever. I may not do one again.)


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## krazybronco2 (May 21, 2015)

gdgli said:


> Friday we trained on downhill marks. First was on the hillside, second in the valley, the third was up on the hill through the trees. Both Thor and Buffy did these. It was interesting to compare Buffy with Thor. Actually they both marked well. I had to adjust the uphill mark because the trees hid the arc of the bumper from view.
> 
> (Testing. My first diagram ever. I may not do one again.)


i really like that setup. any plans of running something similar but at a diff angle so the dog has to hold the side hill? and it could be a side hill and im looking at it wrong but looks like a square up and down to me.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

My plans: I will run again but for distance. This was to teach basic concepts. After running longer distances on this my next setup is to do marks along a hillside which I know to to be difficult. Same strategy: Simple at first for concept, then increase distance.


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## TrailDogs (Aug 15, 2011)

My girls got a lot of pheasant this weekend. My little pup is growing up fast!


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Trail Dogs

Beautiful pics. And your girls are beautiful!


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

TrailDogs said:


> My girls got a lot of pheasant this weekend. My little pup is growing up fast!


Doesn't look like Nixie has to teach Ripple anything! 

Ripple to Nixie: "I got this mom!"


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Molly got live pigeons at the blind today. I'm doing whatever I can to build her confidence back up on blinds. Hopefully Molly can go on another duck hunt this season.

Puppy Maisey saw her first live pheasant today. I can see her trying to get a good grip and putting as much of the bird as she can in her mouth, but she is clearly sore from the teething because she would readjust and hold the pheasant with just the front of her mouth. She'll bring it back really close to me but there is a bit of keep away going on when it's time to give up the bird. But, we're just playing right now. It was really fun watching a baby pup hunt up a pheasant.


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## krazybronco2 (May 21, 2015)

Vhuynh2 said:


> Molly got live pigeons at the blind today. I'm doing whatever I can to build her confidence back up on blinds. Hopefully Molly can go on another duck hunt this season.
> 
> Puppy Maisey saw her first live pheasant today. I can see her trying to get a good grip and putting as much of the bird as she can in her mouth, but she is clearly sore from the teething because she would readjust and hold the pheasant with just the front of her mouth. She'll bring it back really close to me but there is a bit of keep away going on when it's time to give up the bird. But, we're just playing right now. It was really fun watching a baby pup hunt up a pheasant.


always fun to see pups chase birds! the spark really comes out of them when there is something trying to get away!!!

and not sure if this will help you with the releasing the bird but if you grab that little bit of skin right in front of the back leg (either side) and slowly pull up the dog will normally release the bird. it is something a lot of upland people do with quail and doves that have really loose feathers and the dog wants to stick on a bird.


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

krazybronco2 said:


> always fun to see pups chase birds! the spark really comes out of them when there is something trying to get away!!!
> 
> and not sure if this will help you with the releasing the bird but if you grab that little bit of skin right in front of the back leg (either side) and slowly pull up the dog will normally release the bird. it is something a lot of upland people do with quail and doves that have really loose feathers and the dog wants to stick on a bird.


She'll let me take the bird if I open her mouth. She's just dancing around a bit around me so I have to be quick to grab her collar in order to take the bird out. She is usually good if I tell her to sit.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

krazybronco2 said:


> always fun to see pups chase birds! the spark really comes out of them when there is something trying to get away!!!
> 
> and not sure if this will help you with the releasing the bird but if you grab that little bit of skin right in front of the back leg (either side) and slowly pull up the dog will normally release the bird. it is something a lot of upland people do with quail and doves that have really loose feathers and the dog wants to stick on a bird.


I bet you wished you knew that trick before you let the golden pup torture a duck several times until it finally died and caused the pup to be sticky and not release the birds. Took lots of correction afterwards. We all learn somehow, unfortunately at the detriment of the dogs.


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

awww so glad you are having fun with Maisey and the birds! I bet she is so excited, I know you are happy about that!!


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## krazybronco2 (May 21, 2015)

Vhuynh2 said:


> She'll let me take the bird if I open her mouth. She's just dancing around a bit around me so I have to be quick to grab her collar in order to take the bird out. She is usually good if I tell her to sit.


my bad was thinking the dog was sticking a little bit.


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## krazybronco2 (May 21, 2015)

Claudia M said:


> I bet you wished you knew that trick before you let the golden pup torture a duck several times until it finally died and caused the pup to be sticky and not release the birds. Took lots of correction afterwards. We all learn somehow, unfortunately at the detriment of the dogs.


what are you talking about?


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## krazybronco2 (May 21, 2015)

went and trained with a young young dog trainer today with bodey. started with yard work our ob is good around the person he will heel and sit with the best of them but start getting away and it isn't so good so have some homework to do on that.

next was a bigger dog setup but had a very experienced long bird boy to help if need. it was tight and the little joker won't take his eyes off the long gun had to have the short gun help with a lot of attention before throwing well picks up is short bird no problem come back for the long bird he looks out there like there isn't a short gun even there. throw and kick him of and all 37lbs of him is gone till he hits the short gun and starts to put his nose down to hunt the bird boy sees him doing it and some help and an extra bird and boom gets his bird comes back rethrow the long bird again little joker sucks up to the short bird keeps going and hammers it no hunt no nothing nose on the bird.

second setup was a more wide open teaching double. so long bird (memory bird) is first thrown as a single boom picks it up no problems. so set him back up throw the long bird turn him for the short bird. he almost get to the area then starts to act funky bird boy helps him out so we rethrow no problems picks it up but still has to pick up the long bird. and this was the coolest and the simplest way to teach a double i have ever seen you take the bird turn the dog around and start walking toward the mark saying nothing the bird boy is in the field hey hey and swinging arms and the dog just takes off. well bodey picks his bird up for his first ever double!


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

He did great, I'm so glad I got to see him do his first double! He has a lot of nice go, that's for sure! Exciting to see the little guy starting to play games with the other little guys now!


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## krazybronco2 (May 21, 2015)

MillionsofPeaches said:


> He did great, I'm so glad I got to see him do his first double! He has a lot of nice go, that's for sure! Exciting to see the little guy starting to play games with the other little guys now!


haha you say little but he is LITTLE to be just over 37lbs and almost 7mo! he is a dang little bottle rocket with legs!!!


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

The new pup is awesome. He is so smart and fearless. He's been super easy so far to house break and teach. He's crate trained and understands the order of the household pretty well. We're working on basic manners and simple retrieves. We don't have deep snow near my house, so he gets around pretty well outside.


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

Oh he is so cute he reminds me of proof as a baby. Xoxoxox


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Alaska
I see Lucy in the pedigree, Buffy's aunt. Makes us family. Good luck with the pup.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Yes Proof's great aunt is Riot's grand dam. I'm sure there are lots of other common ancestors. The surprising thing is, he has an off switch. You can cuddle him and pet him in your lap. He's quite sweet. But already he has far more energy than the other dogs in the house. He is named Thistle Rock Kicking Up a Fuss.


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Maisey is a rocket ship outside -- incredibly fast, active, and never stops. But, she can nap all day at home. It is amazing!! Field dogs DO have an off switch!


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## krazybronco2 (May 21, 2015)

Alaska he is a good looking dude! can't wait to see his progress!


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

Alaska7133 said:


> Yes Proof's great aunt is Riot's grand dam. I'm sure there are lots of other common ancestors. The surprising thing is, he has an off switch. You can cuddle him and pet him in your lap. He's quite sweet. But already he has far more energy than the other dogs in the house. He is named Thistle Rock Kicking Up a Fuss.


Love his name 
Congratulations!


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Holly, thanks for naming him! Great idea!

I have found the real issue of the differences between field and show goldens. The issue is biddability. So many show dog lines have lost that. Put the coat and the head size and all that aside, it's really down to trainability. It makes me sad that so many of the show lines have put looks before training. We really as a breed need to stop that course. We need to find the dogs in the show ring that train easily like a field dog and breed them, not just the prettiest dogs. Quit breeding strictly for GCh looks, focus on what really matters, training... Whether it's obedience or field or both.

Riot has been a joy to train so far. He has been home less than a week and we have decided that he is the easiest golden puppy we have had as our 5th golden puppy. It is shocking how good it's going. I feel like I'm already falling behind on training. He learns that fast and retains so much so easily. He's going to teach me so much. Now I hope that I can live up to his abilities. The weather has been very cooperative. We aren't super cold and the snow isn't deep. So getting around with the little guy has been easy. Lucy is getting to like the puppy. Which I never thought would happen. She can be quite aggressive and attacks other dogs, particularly dogs that are younger or more submissive. I've had to pull her off many dogs, especially in the last year. With this pup so far she's only gone after him once. I was able to catch her before she connected. We have an Xpen in the house and one at work. So I can keep him safe from her and only let him out for short periods of time. She actually acts like she wants to play with him. But we only let them be in the same room when one or more humans is able to watch 100% what is happening. I usually keep him on a leash. I'm crossing my fingers that Lucy gets a grip and doesn't attack him again.


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

I only have had one show bred dog, but she's as biddable as they come and extremely easy to train. The difference is between her and Maisey is that Molly doesn't have a ton of confidence and she is very, very sensitive and takes everything personally. Maisey is more "do now, think later" while Molly says "let's think about this first". But, I don't think I can generalize and say that is the case for most or even many show Goldens. Most show Goldens I have seen in training have a good amount of confidence and are not extremely sensitive. Even Molly's obedience trainer, who had had show/performance mix bred goldens for a long time, said Molly was a wimp.


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## krazybronco2 (May 21, 2015)

started bodey first on some OB before setting up. then set up a couple converging marks (no pic) belle ran them as a double and you can tell she hasn't been worked as much as she used to be her marking is slipping she tried to back side the long gun called her back in relined her and she did fine. bodey ran the same setup as singles long gun first short bird second no issues front footed both marks. long bird was maybe 120 yards short was around 70 yards. 

second setup was again converging marks but flipped so the short bird was on the right and long bird was on the left. also working on loosing sight of the gun (deep and wide ditch). belle ran them as singles long bird first short bird second hammered both of them. Bodey ran them short first then long bird second he also hammered them, not a perfect line to the long bird sucked toward the short gun a little but keep screaming past the old fall to pick up his bird. re threw the long bird to see if i could get a better line and he took a perfect line.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Krazy,
when you call your dog back to the line, are you having the BB rethrow the mark? Or are you calling back to the line and resending without rethrowing the mark?


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## krazybronco2 (May 21, 2015)

Alaska7133 said:


> Krazy,
> when you call your dog back to the line, are you having the BB rethrow the mark? Or are you calling back to the line and resending without rethrowing the mark?


today i was using wingers but this is how i do it with wingers. i lined her up again and sent. had she not have taken the correction for being called back and back sided again i would let her get past the gun whistle sit with a nick called her back till she got back to the line of the bird then handled to the right side of the gun and let the dog finish it up. and then come back and rethrow that bird as a single. 

if i had a bird boy out there the first time i would have called her back and resend. if she didn't correct her self i would then call back again but have the gun stand up give a hey hey and some arm motion in the direction of the bird then kick the dog off. if that didn't work i would try again but if the dog wanted to back side again have the bird boy step out and give some arm as the dog was running. and then re throw as a single. 

if that doesnt make sense let me know i will try explaining it again.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

We have had really great training the past few days. I am so thankful for people who are willing to take the time and help me advance my knowledge and training skills. Most of the time it is too far over my head to fully understand it, I learn something every time I watch what they are doing. Eventually parts will sink in. Everyone has their own style and nuances, the trick is to understand what will be valuable and integrate it into what you're doing with your own dog.
Saturday Bally did 4 big land blinds. I am tightening up the range of his casting, asking for more narrow angled casts rather than big momentum changer angle backs. I put holding blinds up between my blinds and three of the blinds ran tight past the holding blinds. The first blind he fell for it and ran right at the holding blind, the next two blinds he was good and drove right past them. The last blind was wide open, really no factors, about 300 yards and Bally did it in two whistles. Moved over to water and did a number of marks as coached by Bill, including a channel mark that started with an error but ended up great. ~45 yard entry, long straight shore to the left, island halfway down on the right forming a channel about 10 yards wide. Throw was left-to-right at the end of the channel, and the wind pushing hard into the left shore. On the first throw Bally TOTALLY fell for the cheat and started to run down the left shore. NO-HERE-NICK NICK NICK on medium 2. Moved over a few feet to the right, re-threw, and Bally looked off to the right before I could send him. No - SIT - MARK, re-focused, and sent. I know the look off was a reaction to the correction. This time he took a DEAD LINE right down the middle of the channel, perfecto!!!
Yesterday trained w/ Kristin, land marks. Three stick men in the field, shortest on the left, middle then long one right, all birds landing right to left, sort of forming a diagonal line of stick men across the field. Ran Bally as singles, long to short, his line manners were perfect coming out of the holding blind, focusing on the long mark first, perfect focus, tracking the fall and keeping focus on the mark on the ground. Stepped on all three birds. We then set out blinds, one was between the left and middle marks going directly through the fall of mark 2. BALLY LINED IT. Next mark was deep and to the right of the long right hand mark, we moved over to our left so the dogs had to run sorta parallel with the stickmen, then go through a slot formed by two trees, down into a gulley then back up for the blind. I would say it was ~300 yards. Bally needed a little handling off the backside of the middle mark other than that took a great line and held it through the slot & valley. REALLY happy with him. 

Today we had the unique opportunity (thanks Kristin) to train with a very accomplished amateur who lives here in the winter. He has NINE owner trained and handled FC-AFC dogs! WOW! He set up water blinds for us in training pond and coached us through it, and ran his two dogs as well. His approach was very elastic, emphasizing that the perfect line to the blind is not important in training, it is practicing what the dog needs on the way to the blind. So his dogs and Kristin's dog needed work getting ON points (they avoid points) and the resulting big cast off a point. Bally did the same blinds but staying in the water and swimming by the points. Everyone did really well, and the last blind for Bally was absolutely great. He even got a compliment from the trainer  I'll take it. Finished up today with 6 hand thrown birds up in the front field for each dog. 

Whew. Feeling very fortunate. And very excited with how well Bally is doing. I want to secretly high-five myself after every session LOL OK maybe I do when no one is watching


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

that's really good training it sounds like! How exciting to train with that guy! Its always fun to get new advice and ideas, ya know? I always learn something that's for sure!


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

I had a really good day training even though it was pouring. I ran each dog on singles. I was able to extend the distance on the downhill marks and included running through trees and across a road. They both did well.

We then did what I call an honoring gauntlet drill. Buffy honored all right but got quite vocal. I don't recall her being vocal on an honor before but I welcomed the chance to work on it. Then total success. And today was Thor's first time doing an honor. I am lucky that he is a quick learner.

I ended the day running Buffy on blinds.


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

The weekend was a great training weekend! We had decent weather and a wonderful group to train.
We started Friday afternoon. We ran the big dogs on three sets of in-line blinds. With the first set, we picked up the short blind first, then the middle, then the long blind. The goal was to make them comfortable passing close by a blind that they'd just picked up. After a couple sets like that, we then had them pick up only the middle and long blinds, passing the short blind each time. 
The next day we ran some long blinds (350 - 450 yards), just to ensure control was maintained at the end. A couple of these were angled across a hillside, so they had to maintain the angle and not square it. After the blinds, we ran a few marks. The first set was not really set up as a concept, other than looking past a short, in-your-face gunner and having to pick out a couple of hard to see gunners. After that, we set up three more marks, one of which required the dogs to angle into and then stay in cover for about 150 yards.
The next day, we first ran marks where the dogs cut two corners of cover. After that, we ran a blind, some of us ran it as a poison bird blind. 
I wish that I could train like that more often!!!
FTGoldens


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

FTGoldens said:


> The next day we ran some long blinds (350 - 450 yards), just to ensure control was maintained at the end. A couple of these were angled across a hillside, so they had to maintain the angle and not square it. After the blinds, we ran a few marks. The first set was not really set up as a concept, other than looking past a short, in-your-face gunner and having to pick out a couple of hard to see gunners. After that, we set up three more marks, one of which required the dogs to angle into and then stay in cover for about 150 yards.
> The next day, we first ran marks where the dogs cut two corners of cover. After that, we ran a blind, some of us ran it as a poison bird blind.
> I wish that I could train like that more often!!!
> FTGoldens


That sounds like all the things proof has to work on wrapped up nicely. Sounds like a productive weekend!!


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## krazybronco2 (May 21, 2015)

K9 is the person with the 9 FC-AFC Ken Neil or something close to that?


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

I'm really getting jealous of all the great training the southern contingent is doing. It doesn't look good for us to get back to it until after the New Year. 
Winter did get her CDX this fall so at least we have been training toward UD lately. The pup is in a competition focused obedience class which is fun. Already working on puppy go outs, directed jumping, heeling position and turns, really everything through UD just broken down and no jumping. I didn't start competion OB classes with Winter until she was almost 2 years old so this is a lot more focused with him. It has always been hard for me to find the balance between field and OB. I have only so much time to give to training and field had always taken top bill. It's too bad because Winter is a pretty good OB dog.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

krazybronco2 said:


> K9 is the person with the 9 FC-AFC Ken Neil or something close to that?


Roger Magnussen


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## krazybronco2 (May 21, 2015)

Just wondering cause I know Ken is in south ga just not sure where in south ga.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Great day of solo training as I couldn't scare up any partners. Did two different drills in the water with Bally. First was my "down the shore" drill. He figured out what I wanted immediately. That is, if you are sitting on the shore and I give you a straight back cast toward the water, you better get in the water and run straight down the shore to the pile. The first time I gave this cast he hesitated almost calculating his options, then totally nailed it  This drill ends when you've backed up so far you run out of shore, then you send the dog from your side. They have to nail the entry and run all the way down the water to the pile. The first time I did this Bally cheated a little and ran too narrow (ankle deep vs. elbow deep), when I whistled him he turned into the water and sat. Well, can't argue with you there. Back cast to the pile. The next send he did it perfect.

Then I set up a "3 down the shore" lining drill with three piles marked with white stakes. Basic lining drill having to take an angle past the shorter piles to get to the longer ones. He had no trouble with the closer two piles but going past both of them to get to the long pile proved too tempting. The first time I had to call back, he instantly headed to the middle pile. Then he took a better line but caved quickly, so I stopped and handled, needed several handles to stay on the correct line to the far pile. Next time he needed only one whistle. By that time I had run out of bumpers on the far pile, so I left Bally and put out more bumpers. Came back, lined him up to the far one and he went directly to it, perfect line. 

Both great drills I will repeat at the next opportunity til he gets it 100%.

Then we moved to the far end of middle pond and I set up two cold blinds that I hoped would play off the skills he had just practiced (down the shore, and lining past shorter blinds):









Blind #1 about 85 yards. Entry was total down the shore pick the correct line into the water. Carry that down the shore, past the opening of a small channel on the right, then up on land. Bally took the PERFECT line and had no casts until he got to the opposite shore! WOW!! He got the take home message on that one.

Blind #2 about 110 yards. Straight entry, swim past island (point), open water and up through the marshy area. He had a lot of trouble with the entry on this one, wanting to cave to the right and I guess repeat the first blind. I had to move up, resend, call back, throw a bumper on the right line, move up to the water's edge before I could get him to take the right line. Once he took the correct entry he had no trouble with the island or the rest of the blind. I am trying not to repeat blinds too much with Bally, but I felt it was right to repeat this one, try to get the correct entry sending from further up on land and understand to go where sent. Still with the second try he had trouble with it. He would jump in at the correct spot then instantly go to the right (splitting the difference). This is the frustrating part of training for me. Was he just trying to repeat? Was he trying to hug the shore? Was he avoiding the point and trying to be good? I don't know. Just handling wouldn't have solved anything, I want him to take the correct line and hold it. I tried all the no pressure ways to get him to take the right line, even on the second try. Throwing multiple bumpers on the correct line, moving up, etc. Eventually I stopped him and called back with a nick (low 2). Threw bumper for him to retrieve on correct line. Sent again, still dive to the right, call back with nick on medium 2. NOW I finally got my correct line, and he finished up the blind without problems. 

It's moments like this when it's hard to diagnose exactly why he's doing that, as multiple reasons could make him go that way. Anyways, we worked it out and I felt had a very productive day.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Pretty super day training this afternoon. Why can I not remember to take a picture?
Derby double on the water, both marks big stuff over/past multiple points. Had to repeat both marks (singles) but Bally vastly improved and did the second tries perfectly. The first one I should have known to move up first, but it was alright his only sin was getting a little close on one point, which threw off his line and he came out closer to the gun. Second time he did it fine.
The other mark was much longer, and that was even after moving up and down one finger to run it, to keep him in the water rather than going over the points like the other dogs. Pretty basic, swim past two points, but the first 30 yards of swimming was through a lot of floaty junk and weeds that the dogs really had a hard time with, and there was a decent wind pushing them into the points. Bally fought through all the junk in the water, was on a GREAT line, got even with the second point then totally faded and was heading right for it. NO - HERE called him all the way back and put him up as the launcher was out of bumpers at that point. After several other dogs ran we tried it again, this time Bally NAILED IT and really dug his shoulder into the wind to fight it and stay way off the point. SOOOOOOPER proud of him on that 

At the end we set up this insane water blind, in retrospect it was kinda stupid to do with Bally and way over his head -- BUTTTTT -- this dog hangs in there with me to the nth degree, he has NO quit. Again, past multiple points, between the two guns (left the stickmen out) and when Kristin measured it at the end, 295 yards. Whoa. Bally did some great casts, Bally caved and ended up at a stickman at one point, Bally thought I was sending him to the OTHER stickman at another point, but I was able to get him taking the right casts and working with me and he never gave up. Once I got him out at the right spot, he took one cast and saw the white stake. WOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Toward the end of the blind I couldn't tell if he was even turning and looking at me when I blew the whistle, as the water ripples and his head all looked alike at that distance. Bill watched him through the scope on his gun so was able to tell me if Bally was even looking at me LOL handy

One more day of goofing off tomorrow then back to work on Monday


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

OK another productive day...
Met in the morning at a new field. Two separate doubles converging long bird as memory. Ran Bally as doubles both of them, he had no trouble. Picked up a blind off the back side of the long gun on the second one, in two whistles  Training partner judged, deemed that I made it through that series 

Drove over to Lazy J, set up two very cool marks at the end of training pond. I ran them as singles:









Mark #1 LEFT pretty simple short swim ~80 yards to the back of the cove. No problem.

Mark #2 RIGHT deeper gun, probably 150 yard mark, 100 yards swimming 50 yards land. The challenge was not only staying off the point on the right, but navigating the back cove. Technically the point coming straight at us was on line. How it affected Bally was interesting. However the big challenge here was that when going for mark #2, the dog could not see the gun while swimming, until he got up and over the back side of the pond. And once he did get there, the short #1 gun where he just picked up a bird was right in his face. The first time I did this mark, Bally swam directly at the oncoming point, decided he shouldn't get on that point, proceeded to swim down the left side of it, got up and whaddaya know, immediately saw the left gun and went over there. I was actually surprised he fell for it that hard. Recalled with low level nicks. 
Re-ran this mark, this time Bally stayed more right on his line. He swam no sweat past the right point, and this time swam down the right side of the oncoming point, and it was pretty cool as he was going so hard even after all that he was porpoising through the running water! Got up and right out straight to the long mark. Yippee!!!!!

Really pretty weather today, even though I'm ready to ditch the shorts and wear jackets. Good training.


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

yep that darn short gun in their face! ha ha! That is something I had to work hard on with Proof and still do. Losing sight of the long gun with the short gun in their face. That is almost how I would train him to do it. The way I do it is wait for him to get to the area and I know he's fully committed and then I'll whistle sit, then say no no here, no no, here and low nick until he gets back to the point of the line they got off on. Then just stop the nicks and say no no here and rerun it. If Proof was to go back then he'd get a little more pressure. If he is on water, then I don't whistle because 9 times out of 10 he will just jump in and I don't want him to get any nicks in water right now


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

MillionsofPeaches said:


> yep that darn short gun in their face! ha ha! That is something I had to work hard on with Proof and still do. Losing sight of the long gun with the short gun in their face. That is almost how I would train him to do it. The way I do it is wait for him to get to the area and I know he's fully committed and then I'll whistle sit, then say no no here, no no, here and low nick until he gets back to the point of the line they got off on. Then just stop the nicks and say no no here and rerun it. If Proof was to go back then he'd get a little more pressure. If he is on water, then I don't whistle because 9 times out of 10 he will just jump in and I don't want him to get any nicks in water right now


Interesting on how both of you would handle this. I probably would waited for the dog fully committed on land then no/nicked back to the waters edge, the last place the dog was right, then handled to the mark from there. And I would have run it again. 

Something for me to think about.


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

hollyk said:


> Interesting on how both of you would handle this. I probably would waited for the dog fully committed on land then no/nicked back to the waters edge, the last place the dog was right, then handled to the mark from there. And I would have run it again.
> 
> Something for me to think about.


This is a great training discussion! It demonstrates that there are often several ways a correction can be made for the same infraction. And each method discussed above is appropriate, although for a particular dog at a particular point in its training may benefit more from one method than another.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

I can't say my correction was terribly calculated, it consisted of me watching my dog in disbelief returning to the old fall until my training partner yelled at me LOL
But I just recalled with I think a low or medium 2 several nicks until he got back in the water.
Bally I have found responds just fine to corrections if you let him fully commit to the mistake then get him.
I asked my training partner (who runs the show when it comes to marks), should I put him up and run it after the other dogs (fatigue) or right now. He said do it now because if you come back and just run that right mark, the attraction of the left hand mark will have lost its punch. Good call. I ran Bally on mark #2 right away and he majorly corrected his path to the fall.


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

Holly I've handled too, but mostly its been on the water. But I would say, 80% of the time all the dogs are brought back in, handling very very little.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

MillionsofPeaches said:


> Holly I've handled too, but mostly its been on the water. But I would say, 80% of the time all the dogs are brought back in, handling very very little.


Yes, I get this.  
Remember I have the girl who needs one more scoop of confidence. Unfortunately, too much bringing her all the way back will break her down also.
But it's hard to know exactly what I would have done unless I was standing there in that set up with my dog. Thinking about it now, I would say that if I got a solid lock on that right gun she would have picked it up. But if I didn't read a solid lock and if I couldn't have talked her into it then I hope I would have asked the gunner to step out since this is something we are working on. Communication at the line on marks, who knew it would become so important. First dogs always get the short end.
Not surprising at the top of my list for next puppy was confidence, actually it was confidence with out being a jerk.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Holly, that balance is so important! I was looking for that with my new pup. Confident without overly dominant. I think I picked well, but only time will tell.

I've been working with the new pup. Nothing in life is free. So he must sit before walking through a doorway, which means I go first. He has to sit and wait when I put the food bowl down. He has to sit before I put the leash on him. He has to sit and wait before I open the crate door. He's doing very well. But I've never given him the option to do otherwise. So onto whistle sits and whistle recalls. We are working on that next step. His recalls with verbal and treats was going well, so I added the whistle. He's getting it. Long line on him whenever he's out on the trails off leash. He can comfortably do a mile now off leash with the big dogs. But he loves moose crap, which is everywhere up here. So you have to pick your battles. Moose poop isn't one of them. His manners are very nice. He plays well with the big dogs. And Lucy adores him! Never thought that would happen. His retrieves initially were great, but now he's 10 weeks so he's more distracted. So I've switched to tossing treats to keep his attention instead of bumpers. I keep him on a long line all the time to be able to reel him in. He's good on short doubles in the house. Great memory. Connie Cleveland has some very nice puppy training videos on her YouTube page. Dog Trainers Workshop. 

Miss Lucy. She is a whole other story. My gosh Lucy and Riot are like night and day. Yesterday I tortured myself and watched an obedience heeling video of her and I from last summer. It's so obvious she has no interest in anything unless there is a cookie in her face. She was a complete jerk last Saturday at field class. I mean class A jerk. Ugh. DH wants me to just take her hunting and have fun with her and drop trying to go any farther with her. He doesn't think it's worth the pain. But I keep looking at her thinking there has to be a way to get through to her.


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

awww I'm so glad you are loving having Riot and enjoy training him. It is amazing how much Proof loves to train compared to my other dogs so I understand exactly what you are feeling right now. Having a dog that wants to train and learn makes a huge difference and it will help YOU to become a better trainer because you will see how actual results that provide information on real stuff to move forward, not stagnating.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

I trained alone today. I took Buffy and Thor both to the field. We did not do bad. In fact, it was a pretty good day.

Buffy did lining drills (160 yds.) followed by introducing a mark into this setup. "No" off the mark, run the blind, then pick up the mark. What is great is the confidence she has gained in the past few months running blinds. She ran these perfectly. Next time I would like to introduce other suction into this drill. 

I ran Thor on some lining drills. He is up to 110 yards. I am amazed at his confidence. I ran these without blind stakes. After a rest I then ran him on a double with a long memory bird. He had to run diagonally across a road for the long mark. He just continues to surprise me.

And now for upsetting news for me. My mentor was in the hospital last week. He went home and now he is back in the hospital. I have the utmost respect for him. Our friendship and training goes back 35 years. I just don't know how much longer he will be active.


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## krazybronco2 (May 21, 2015)

gdgli said:


> I trained alone today. I took Buffy and Thor both to the field. We did not do bad. In fact, it was a pretty good day.
> 
> Buffy did lining drills (160 yds.) followed by introducing a mark into this setup. "No" off the mark, run the blind, then pick up the mark. What is great is the confidence she has gained in the past few months running blinds. She ran these perfectly. Next time I would like to introduce other suction into this drill.
> 
> ...


Lining drill or pattern blind?


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

awww George I'm very sorry that he is still not feeling well. I hope for a recovery for him.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

krazybronco2 said:


> Lining drill or pattern blind?


Running the pattern blind with the distraction for Buffy. There are really other distractions in the field. This field is a soccer and cricket field. There are golf balls and fast food garbage in the field. The distance is new for her. This also included two dips and three little hills on the way. Not only that, she runs them like she is running a mark. My distraction was a mark thrown from about 40 yards out, thrown maybe 25 yards out at an angle. I really wanted to drill on holding her line. 

For Thor this was done on the same field. He surprises me. In this way he is different than Buffy. I would bet that I could get him to do 160 yards without stakes right now (but I won't, my focus is on introducing factors on marks). This is the first time doing this with him in my pattern field. One white bumper and the rest were red.

Both Thor and Buffy are outstanding markers. Their differences: Buffy liked to run longer right from the start. I have spent an awful lot of time doing checkdown drills with her just to get her not to over run her marks. She just wants to run long (I mean LONG and FULL THROTTLE). Thor likes to run hard, really hard and straight. But he is not over running marks. Something is different. And as for pile work---so far a load of difference. 

PS Buffy's marking ability interfered with the blind work IMO. Topic for another discussion.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

MillionsofPeaches said:


> awww George I'm very sorry that he is still not feeling well. I hope for a recovery for him.


He is 80 years old and not well. In the past year he has suffered from MRSA among other things. He came out to the field just to work with me prepping the dogs for our National Specialty.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

I'm sorry George. Friends in bad health are so painful to watch. I hope you are able visit with him and bring your dogs too.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

Oh George I'm so sorry.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

I don't know if this has been posted here before but it's a cool tutorial on how scent works. 

How Scent and Airflow Works


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

Thanks, Holly, I will check that out. Wind factors is one of the most ambiguous things for me to learn for some reason

And George, I know how much he means to you. I really am sorry


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

COOOOOOOOL marks yesterday...
I was advised to have confidence in my dog and just run it. It worked out great:

3 singles on Middle Pond ran in the order left, right, middle

I would say distances were 120, 150, 100 respectively (??)









Graph is slightly off as line to the middle mark was in the water past the point marked with a little purple arrow.

Bally did PERFECT on everything, except he blew by to the left of the island on the middle mark and got up on the big land, fake throw by bird boy got him on the island. He gets half credit because he actually was avoiding beaching on the island and assumed more water. I was SUPER IMPRESSED with how well he did the right hand mark. No problem whatsoever, and with a crosswind going into shore.

Training partner ("field trial guy") said I should be thrilled, and I totally am -- could NOT do these without his help though!!!!


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

oooh yeah that island is tough! And fighting the crosswind and not banking early! Wow that is awesome!


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Today's mark:









Nahhhhhhhh not really!!

Here's the real ones:









Ran 1-2-3-4 singles
1-3 approx 180 yds
4 maybe 220
Bally did super


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## krazybronco2 (May 21, 2015)

gdgli said:


> Running the pattern blind with the distraction for Buffy. There are really other distractions in the field. This field is a soccer and cricket field. There are golf balls and fast food garbage in the field. The distance is new for her. This also included two dips and three little hills on the way. Not only that, she runs them like she is running a mark. My distraction was a mark thrown from about 40 yards out, thrown maybe 25 yards out at an angle. I really wanted to drill on holding her line.
> 
> For Thor this was done on the same field. He surprises me. In this way he is different than Buffy. I would bet that I could get him to do 160 yards without stakes right now (but I won't, my focus is on introducing factors on marks). This is the first time doing this with him in my pattern field. One white bumper and the rest were red.
> 
> ...


Thanks! like that setup!


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## krazybronco2 (May 21, 2015)

K9-Design said:


> COOOOOOOOL marks yesterday...
> I was advised to have confidence in my dog and just run it. It worked out great:
> 
> 3 singles on Middle Pond ran in the order left, right, middle
> ...


****! SON those are some nasty marks doesnt matter the distance lots of tight entries past guns and points and the works!


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## krazybronco2 (May 21, 2015)

K9-Design said:


> Today's mark:
> 
> View attachment 599962
> 
> ...


i really like 1 and 2 and just moving the line. get the dog thinking water on the first mark but then second if they try to go around the point behind the gun. really teaching the dog to mark and take a straight line.

what was the point of 3 and 4 I'm not seeing a lot on those marks. 4 is kinda cheaty guessing the distance to the water entry was pushing the dogs to cheat?


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

krazybronco2 said:


> i really like 1 and 2 and just moving the line. get the dog thinking water on the first mark but then second if they try to go around the point behind the gun. really teaching the dog to mark and take a straight line.
> 
> what was the point of 3 and 4 I'm not seeing a lot on those marks. 4 is kinda cheaty guessing the distance to the water entry was pushing the dogs to cheat?


3 I wanted Bally to stay true to the line on the exit point and not suck to the gun. It was sort of an anti-headswinging thing too with all three guns out there at once. 4 was just a cheater!!


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