# How do I escape the Gold Rush line?



## LOVEisGOLDEN

welcome to the forum. I'm so sorry to hear about your girl. RIP sweet Savannah.

I was concerned about that 60% cancer risk too, my vet explained (much better than I can) that yes, goldens do have a higher rate of cancer, but the % is greatly inflated due to the great number of goldens. consider how many more goldens are born compared to other breeds...


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## paula bedard

I'm sure you'll find the names of some good Breeders in your area that are 'Gold Rush' free once others chime in. I'm sorry about loosing your Golden's at such a youngish age. I lost Sam at 12 years, not long enough for me either. Good luck finding your next pup. Maybe some of our Breeders will see this and have an answer for you.


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## tippykayak

The genetic components of cancer aren't well understood at all, so it may not be something that can be bred out of the dogs. Even if there are strong genetic factors that could be bred for, any one breeder's dogs don't comprise a large enough statistical sampling to provide definitive or even strong proof that there's cancer in a line or not in a line. 

It may be true that an individual breeder has had relatively low incidences of cancer in his or her dogs, but it's not statistical proof that the breeder's dogs won't die of cancer or even that they are less likely.

Overall longevity in the ancestry of a perspective dog is worth looking at, but the common cancers aren't something you can really avoid by studying heredity at this point.

That said, there's no reason not to change up breeders. I'm from CT, and I got my dogs in Maine and NY, so if you're willing to drive, there are some AWESOME breeders to be found in New England. Educate yourself on what makes a great breeder and interview them and inspect their facilities yourself. Some of the best can only be found by word of mouth, not on the web. And good luck!


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## hotel4dogs

Are you familiar with Rhonda Hovan, the breeder of the Faera line of goldens? She is very well known for her research and work to learn about and fight cancer in goldens. Thru her "Starlight Fund" she has donated I believe over $40,000 to research for cancer in goldens.
Here's a link to one of her articles, which is on the UC Davis website. I suggest you read about Rhonda, then click the pdf link for her article about cancer. It's very informative.
http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/CCAH/cancer_golden%20retrievers.cfm
and here is a short piece of her email to me when I inquired about cancer in her line, the Faera dogs:
"...As you will see, cancer in Goldens is widespread, not only in the US, but around the world. There are no lines that have been identified as having a greater or lesser incidence, and thus far, such claims have always been shown to be inaccurate when data is gathered. Specifically, Faera dogs seem to be affected at no higher or lower rate than the rest of the breed. And yes, Star is alive and well at 9 years old (although in all honesty, this has no direct bearing on your dog's predicted longevity.)
I hope this will help to answer some of your questions, and perhaps you can also help to educate others with the facts instead of rumor. It is important for breeders to understand that we are all in this together, and to help us by supporting research instead of trying to make us adversaries by pointing fingers...."


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## Debles

In humans, some cancers have been shown to be genetic so it could be possible in goldens. Especially when our breed is so prone. I would go with another breeder who has had no dogs so far develop cancer. No one can predict the future but after having two dogs die from it, I would surely take every precaution if I were you.

I have been lucky so far and hope I am not jinxing myself I've had three goldens live to 12,14 and 12, none died from cancer. Selka and Gunner are 9 and 5 and we chose a breeder with no history of cancer in either dam or sire's pedigree and with longevity. Selka's dad lived to just shy of 17!
But shortly after we got Gunner their maternal grandmother developed cancer at age 11 and I can't recall what kind or how long after she lived. I think she was PTS.
I am praying that was a fluke.
Good Luck. There are many wonderful breeders on the east coast and I am sure many don't have Goldrush lines. Delmarva from GRF is in Maryland. Their goldens are extraordinary! I think they have a long waiting list.


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## Angel_Kody

Hello and welcome! :wave: So glad you found us. I am sorry about the loss of your Charlie and most recently, Savannah. I got my first golden from a breeder in NJ (who no longer breeds) and he had Gold Rush in his ancestry. He died of Lymphoma at just under 11 years of age. Even though that is near the average...losing a golden at any age is difficult to say the least.  We got our current golden Jester from a breeder in central NY. Even though I feel like I did my homework about buying a new puppy the cancer statistics still weigh heavy on my mind. I feel that you just have to hope for the best and in the meantime enjoy every single moment these sweet angels have to give during their all too brief time with us on this earth.


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## mylissyk

I am so very sorry for your losses of your beloved companions. I completely understand your desire to avoid that pain again. I hope you find what you are looking for in your next pup.


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## Ljilly28

I can't believe what you have been through with the loss of your precious dogs, and my heart goes out to you.

K9data.com is partially helpful in checking the lines of future pups for longevity, and it is a tool that will help you find your pup. Unfortunately, many causes of death and death dates are not recorded, but quite a few are. You can ask the prospective breeder directly to fill in dogs you cant find information about. 

There is no doubt many cancers have a genetic component in dogs and humans. Raleigh's oncologist told me that, in choosing a puppy, dogs in the background who suffer cancer before age 7 are especially statistically significant bc then it is not a disease of older age past nature's reproductive period, but a prime of life cancer with grave implications for offspring. My vet thinks Boxers,Bernese MT dogs, and Goldens do have a higher propensity for 4 types of cancer than other breeds they see frequently or mixed breeds.

There are several threads here about Gold Rush- both for and against the efforts of that influential kennel to address the cancer issue. You can read them by searching. Since it's a sensitive topic for several people, I'm not going to comment. 

I do know I went way too far in the other direction as a knee-jerk reaction to losing Raleigh to hemangiosarcoma. I looked fanatically for a very outcrossed breeding with no cancer in the pedigree in a dog under ten - however, I sacrificed orthopedics and conformation in exchange. Next time, I hope to be more balanced in looking for a pup who, yes, has longevity in parents& grandparents and their littermates, but also has a breeder who knows their lines through and through and through on both sides. I just considered a beautiful first pick puppy, but then there were too many young deaths for me to feel comfortable.

I want to second Hotel4Dogs' commendation of Rhonda Hovan's kindness and work ethic revolving around cancer prevention in goldens. She took the time to write me two detailed emails about what she herself does concretely with the Faera dogs now- things studied and things promising but not yet proven. I dont want to quote it here without her explicit permission, but I will email and ask if I can. Tally is Starlight and Future Classic, and QB is linebred on Thunder. A few things: keeping dogs lean, buffered 81 asprin daily with a stomach guard, vitamin D, good tick&flea prevention, age of neutering, low carbs (one theory is cancer feeds on carbs)no golf courses/lawn chemicals seem promising to at least help. My vet believes the low dose asprin will one day be recommended for cancer-prone breeds, but right now there is too much risk of stomach bleeding and no definitive proof.

Whenever I get too worried, I like to think about my golden Joplin who lived, basically, forever. And about dogs like Benjamin (http://www.everythinggolden.com/new_page_131.htm )who saw 16. It does happen that goldens from familiar lines to thrive into the oldest of old age.


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## HovawartMom

My vet decided against a golden because their health is so bad,even though she loves them.She,also,said,it was the most common breed seen at the vet for allergy and cancer!.Instead,she went for a poodle!.
GoldenRush being such a large breeder will automatically have more cancer and health problems than a smaller breeder but she does have beautiful dogs!.When I lived in NJ,most of the goldens,I met, came from her!.


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## Charlie's Dad

Thank you all for your responses.

The emotional part of me is searching for why, but the rational side of me thinks it is just bad luck.

Sounds like the consensus is that there is no "holy grail" line with less cancer risk. That is generally what I suspected.

Well, I will definitely be rolling the dice again soon, getting another companion for my three year old golden.

I'll let you all know what we decided to do.


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## Ljilly28

I think it's worth the drive for a Tahnee puppy!

Also, Kara on this forum announced a nice repeat litter, though i do not know if she is considering pet homes. Those would be such good pups. I think she might be sunkissedgoldens.com


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## tippykayak

golden&hovawart said:


> GoldenRush being such a large breeder will automatically have more cancer and health problems than a smaller breeder but she does have beautiful dogs!.When I lived in NJ,most of the goldens,I met, came from her!.


Out of curiosity, what's the rationale that links breeder size to cancer and other health problems?


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## Ljilly28

Here's a conversation about Gold Rush http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/showthread.php?t=27428&highlight=gold+Rush

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/showthread.php?t=21905&highlight=johnson&page=2


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## kgiff

I recently went further back into my two goldens' pedigrees and found both to have come from the same gold rush dog (6-8 generations back). My two dogs could not be more different. They are from two different states, completely different lines, completely different breeding philosophies, etc. I never in a million years would have thought they were related (even that distantly). 

I think finding a breeder you trust to have done his/her homework on their lines and their breedings is key. My one dog, I know my breeder did everything she possibly could to maximize the chances of the puppies being healthy. There will always be a risk but doing your homework can help minimize the risks. What's the alternative? Not having these wonderful dogs in your life?


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## AmbikaGR

tippykayak said:


> Out of curiosity, what's the rationale that links breeder size to cancer and other health problems?


I believe the poster was referring to sheer numbers. In other words if you produce 10 dogs over 3 years and another breeder produces 100 in that same three years odds are the second breeder will produce more cases of pups with health issues. Not a higher percentage, just more. Hope that is a little clearer than mud.


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## AmbikaGR

Somehow my first post to this thread did not make it so I will try again.
Welcome to the list and please accept my condolonces on the loss of your two very young dogs. As someone stated it is never easy put when they are young it does not make any sense. And as others have stated there is no real scientific proof that cancer is more prevelant in certain lines. I do not want to unduly concern you but I would take a serious look at he enviroment your dogs live in. If you use fertilizers and/or chemicals on your lawn or property I would stop immediately. I would take a look at any thing used to clean anything they comes in contact with - floors, carpeting etc. I am of the belief that in addition to a dog needing to predisposed to cancer the enviroment is just if not more influential.
I can totally understand your wanting to avoid certain lines due to your personal experience. It makes perfect sense to me. Below are links to two Golden Clubs in New Jersey and their breeder referral pages. I know there are breeders in these clubs who have no Gold Rush in their pedigrees and others where it may be 6 generations or more back.
Good luck in your search!
Garden State GRC
http://www.gsgrc.org/breederref.htm
Pinebarrens GRC
http://www.njpbgrc.org/njpbgrc_website_new_006.htm


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## Debles

golden&hovawart said:


> My vet decided against a golden because their health is so bad,even though she loves them.She,also,said,it was the most common breed seen at the vet for allergy and cancer!.Instead,she went for a poodle!.
> GoldenRush being such a large breeder will automatically have more cancer and health problems than a smaller breeder but she does have beautiful dogs!.When I lived in NJ,most of the goldens,I met, came from her!.


Unlike your vet, I would never choose another breed regardless of the health issues in Goldens. I am biased and think this is the best breed of dog ever. If I couldn't have a golden, I wouldn't have a dog.


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## Ljilly28

Debles said:


> Unlike your vet, I would never choose another breed regardless of the health issues in Goldens. I am biased and think this is the best breed of dog ever. If I couldn't have a golden, I wouldn't have a dog.


Wow, Debles. That is true love. I will always have goldens, as long as I can draw a breath, and have never owned another breed. But I might have to say, if I couldnt have a golden, I might have just the right regal rough (lassie)collie.


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## Debles

Jill, I can say that because I can't even imagine it ever happening in my lifetime. 
: )(not having a golden I mean)

I will always have goldens even if it is just fostering seniors in rescue. I am a fanatic and yes, it is true love. : )


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## Ljilly28

Cancer fund
http://www.goldenretrieverfoundation.org/research.html


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## Griffyn'sMom

AmbikaGR said:


> And as others have stated there is no real scientific proof that cancer is more prevelant in certain lines. I do not want to unduly concern you but I would take a serious look at he enviroment your dogs live in. *If you use fertilizers and/or chemicals on your lawn or property I would stop immediately.* I would take a look at any thing used to clean anything they comes in contact with - floors, carpeting etc. I am of the belief that in addition to a dog needing to predisposed to cancer the enviroment is just if not more influential.
> I can totally understand your wanting to avoid certain lines due to your personal experience. It makes perfect sense to me. Below are links to two Golden Clubs in New Jersey and their breeder referral pages. I know there are breeders in these clubs who have no Gold Rush in their pedigrees and others where it may be 6 generations or more back.
> Good luck in your search!
> Garden State GRC
> http://www.gsgrc.org/breederref.htm
> Pinebarrens GRC
> http://www.njpbgrc.org/njpbgrc_website_new_006.htm


Do take note of the Bold post here - I truly believe that lawn pesticides and fertilizers contribute to cancer. We are in NJ and must do our best to prevent the evil C with everything.

That said - my first Golden, Jake came from pretty heavy Gold-Rush lines. His father lived to be 14 1/2 and Jake lived to be 17. Sometimes it's just plain dumb luck when they live a long life. (And well water!) :

Since I heard so many things against the Gold-Rush line, I did make an attempt to avoid it - Griff has Gold-Rush in him but it's 6 or 7 generations back. He is a mixture of American/Canadian/English lines. I am not keen into in-breeding and line-breeding due to the fact that it often backfires - thus the problem in some of the Gold-Rush lines.

Gold-Rush does have beautiful, good tempered dogs though. Life is a craps shoot - roll the dice!


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## hotel4dogs

I believe just that if one breeds 100 goldens, 60 will die of cancer, whereas if one breeds 10, only 6 will. Therefore the one who bred 60 who died of cancer will be "better known" and have a reputation for having cancer in the line, whereas the other will remain unheard of.




tippykayak said:


> Out of curiosity, what's the rationale that links breeder size to cancer and other health problems?


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## hotel4dogs

If you scroll down that page you will see that Rhonda Hovan is the facilitator of the research fund.
To me, that's a breeder that goes above and beyond the normal in caring about improving the health of the breed.




Ljilly28 said:


> Cancer fund
> http://www.goldenretrieverfoundation.org/research.html


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## SunGold

Ljilly28 said:


> Also, Kara on this forum announced a nice repeat litter, though i do not know if she is considering pet homes. Those would be such good pups. I think she might be sunkissedgoldens.com


Thanks! I am currently accepting applications from people interested in more active pet puppies. 
It's a repeat breeding of the girl in my signature below.


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## MurphyTeller

SunGold said:


> Thanks! I am currently accepting applications from people interested in more active pet puppies.
> It's a repeat breeding of the girl in my signature below.


 
And living with one of the "light" puppies - I can attest that they are ACTIVE puppies. Sweet temperaments, personality PLUS, beautiful dogs, BOLD and adaptable...Teller (now 23 months old) does obedience, agility, tracking, rally, fieldwork and conformation....Of course the flip side of that is that they need some structure in training, they can be busy-bodies (with a reliable off-button too). Typical medium-high energy, very drivey dogs...I got everything I wanted and then some 

Erica


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## Sivin

I hope someone will correct me if I am wrong because I am doing this from memory, but wasn't there a champ named Gold Rush's GiantTeddy Bear whose sperm was used long after he was gone? It seems to me that our first golden, Jodie (who died at 11.5 from lymphoma) had him in her background. By the way, we purchased her from a fine breeder in Santa Rosa, Ca!


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## Griffyn'sMom

Sivin said:


> I hope someone will correct me if I am wrong because I am doing this from memory, but wasn't there a champ named Gold Rush's GiantTeddy Bear whose sperm was used long after he was gone? It seems to me that our first golden, Jodie (who died at 11.5 from lymphoma) had him in her background. By the way, we purchased her from a fine breeder in Santa Rosa, Ca!


That would be "Great" Teddy Bear http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=50 who sired a gazillion puppies and his father is the famous Charlie http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=56 sired them as well.


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## Charlie's Dad

Next question: Is there any truth to the rumor that English Golden Retrievers are less prone to cancer than American-bred? My sister-in-law lives in England and might be able to help us import one.


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## AmbikaGR

Charlie's Dad said:


> Next question: Is there any truth to the rumor that English Golden Retrievers are less prone to cancer than American-bred? My sister-in-law lives in England and might be able to help us import one.


We have numerous folks on this forum from England, Europe and around the world. I believe you will find that they are dealing with the same health issues as we in North America are. I would recommend that you start a new thread with something in the title line to catch the attention of those accross the pond. Something like "Question for our Britsh friends"


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## Conquerergold

Hi Charlie's Dad,
I would say doing research into overseas pedigrees is just as important to doing research into American/Canadian pedigrees. 

My foundation bitch is from the US (I am in Ontario), but 75% of her pedigree is Australian & NZ. There is nice longevity & health in her pedigree, but it took me a long time to find her (doing research etc.), and about a year wait until she was born from when I first contacted her breeder.

If you are set on an English style Golden, they can be found on this 'side of the pond', but again research needs to be done to see if you are dealing with a reputable person or not.

You can also extend your search to Canada, for either English or American style. Myself, I have several puppies from my breeding living in PA, NJ, & NY. Many breeders are willing to work with puppy owners 'long-distance'.

Best of luck in your search, and if you would like any help with English style breeders, here in North America, please do let me know.

Cheers
Rob


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## AmbikaGR

Conquerergold said:


> Hi Charlie's Dad,
> I would say doing research into overseas pedigrees is just as important to doing research into American/Canadian pedigrees.
> 
> My foundation bitch is from the US (I am in Ontario), but 75% of her pedigree is Australian & NZ. There is nice longevity & health in her pedigree, but it took me a long time to find her (doing research etc.), and about a year wait until she was born from when I first contacted her breeder.
> 
> If you are set on an English style Golden, they can be found on this 'side of the pond', but again research needs to be done to see if you are dealing with a reputable person or not.
> 
> You can also extend your search to Canada, for either English or American style. Myself, I have several puppies from my breeding living in PA, NJ, & NY. Many breeders are willing to work with puppy owners 'long-distance'.
> 
> Best of luck in your search, and if you would like any help with English style breeders, here in North America, please do let me know.
> 
> Cheers
> Rob


This is a breeder who I think you would be VERY comfortable with. I do not know Rob personally but I do know of him. 
I am so glad you posted in this thread Rob.


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## Conquerergold

Thank you very much Hank!

Cheers
Rob


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## Golden Leo

Charlie's Dad said:


> Next question: Is there any truth to the rumor that English Golden Retrievers are less prone to cancer than American-bred? My sister-in-law lives in England and might be able to help us import one.


I must say that the only cases I have heard that golden died from cancer are puppies from one particular dog. I suppose he has too much inbreeding (and fake pedigree)- all of his puppies with different females are identical and all looked exactly like him and most of them died from bone cancer, the others died of other diseases (problem with heart and other cancers), very few of them are healthy.
If you wish to import a dog I may ask my friends, breeders to help you with lines.


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## Tahnee GR

AmbikaGR said:


> This is a breeder who I think you would be VERY comfortable with. I do not know Rob personally but I do know of him.
> I am so glad you posted in this thread Rob.


I will second Hank's comment-Rob would be a great person for you to work with.


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## Conquerergold

Thank you very much Linda!!

I am open to helping anyone find the right dog/breeder for them.

Cheers
Rob


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## Spun Gold

Don't forget that there are a TON of good breeders between NJ and CA!


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## Popebendgoldens

Have you tried the breeder who bred Ch Cummings Gold Rush Charlie? Her name is Mary Cummings(my mom) and she is in Stillwater NJ. 

My 2 current golden retrievers are from her breedings. They were returned to her as adults and they are now in their forever home. 

Good luck on your search

Pat
Cedar creek, TX


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## DaveD

*Sorry*



Charlie's Dad said:


> First, a little background.
> 
> My wife and I have had three dogs from Gold Rush. They are beautiful, smart, awesome dogs.
> 
> However, I am beginning to wonder whether they are cursed to die young of cancer. Maybe we have just been unlucky, but our first dog, Charlie, died at 8 years due to lung cancer. Our second dog, Savannah, just passed away last night due to hemangiosarcoma. She was almost 8 years old. I can only hope our remaining golden from Gold Rush escapes this fate.
> 
> Now, I understand statistics, and I understand that 60% of goldens die due to cancer and that the median life span for goldens is about 10.5 years. So there is about a 10% chance that I could have two dogs that die at less than the median age due to cancer.
> 
> So, am I just unlucky or is the Gold Rush line at higher risk of dying early due to cancer? Is the probability of a Gold Rush dog dying due to cancer essentially much higher than for the breed as a whole?
> 
> I have heard a lot of stories about Gold Rush dogs dying due to cancer, but with 60% of the breed dying due to cancer and Gold Rush being the biggest breeder in NJ, this alone is not surprising.
> 
> Regardless, though, I don't think I am willing to take the risk.
> 
> Now, living in NJ am I basically going to find that all the breeders around here have some Gold Rush in them? Do I need to essentially parachute into the West Coast and get a Golden from there? Does anybody know a breeder close to Northern NJ that has a non-Gold Rush line?
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated. Including names of any breeders anywhere that could perhaps have longer living dogs.


 Sorry to hear about your dogs. This is my first post. My Dog Magic died last week She was Goldrush and was 9 3/4 yr of age and passed form cancer rupturing her spleen. her Mom's name was Goldrush Savannah and I was searching to see how her Mom did as i could not get any info from Goldrush when I asked last time. I am hoping the statistics are not in line with what you nad I have seen. Woudl you know hoe I could search for her Mom? Thanks.


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## Scubasteve198

My Tucker was sired by "Nate" (Gold-Rush National Treasure) and Tucker has been a healthy, fun, rough and tumbly dog, all boy. His personality is wonderful. 

I live in Southeastern Kansas and I wonder how much location and environment play a part in illnesses in Golden Retrievers. I know the area I live in Soutestern Kansas has a really high allergy problem for humans. I used to live in the northeast and remember NJ as a heavily developed area. Are their areas of the country with higher rates of cancer than others?


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## Scubasteve198

Hey Pat, 

"Charle" seems to be somewhere in every pedigree. Must have been a busy boy.


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## Popebendgoldens

Charlie was the top winning dog in the 70's. That is why he is in so many pedigrees. 

My mom, who bred Charlie, has very little cancer in her dogs. Her oldest golden is 14 years old. He is deaf but still doing great. She feeds a raw diet and that helps a lot.

I think that the Goldrush line has a lot of problems with cancer. I also think that those that feed a kibble diet gives the high risk dogs more chance to get cancer.

I have raw fed my dogs for 10 years and do little to no vaccinations so my dogs do live longer than most. 

I also think that we over vaccinate our dogs. By getting them their DHLP shots every year, we are ruining their immune systems so that any high risk cancer prone dogs WILL have a much larger chance than other dogs to get the cancer. Now this is my thoughts but I think that after they get their puppy shots, they dogs should have no other shots. It's like this, why don't people get the tetnus shots every year? We may get them maybe once every decade depending on our lifestyles. Of for those younger folks, why not get a MMR shot every year? Getting Tetnus or MMR shots every year makes as much sense as giving the dogs their shots every year. It is the immune system that protects are body from diseases, so why kill the immune system just so the vets and the pharmasutical companies can get their $$$$. 

Off my soapbox now....
Pat


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## AmbikaGR

Popebendgoldens said:


> I think that the Goldrush line has a lot of problems with cancer. I also think that those that feed a kibble diet gives the high risk dogs more chance to get cancer.


Do you have any proof of either of these claims? If not can you tell us what you base this on?


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## Ljilly28

Tally's Rally O buddy is a glamour boy from Gold Rush named Aspen. What a head! I just gaze at him and sigh. Very lovely golden.


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## Popebendgoldens

Actually a lot about the Gold Rush goldens comes from not only what I have read but also from my mom (Cummings Goldens). 

Now as far as the kibble diet goes..... 90 % of all kibble on the market has grain in it . The amount of grain can be 80% or more of the ingredients (Walmarts Old Roy and Science diet are great examples) Grains are a carbohydrate and will feed the cancer, in dogs that have cancer. Here is a link that will explain more of what I mean about kibble and it's relationship to cancer in dogs. 
http://www.northcoastmarines.com/barf.htm

I believe in feeding dogs a raw diet. The raw diet has no grain in it, It is just meat and bones and a few supplements. 

Pat


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## AmbikaGR

Popebendgoldens said:


> Grains are a carbohydrate and will feed the cancer, in dogs that have cancer. Here is a link that will explain more of what I mean about kibble and it's relationship to cancer in dogs.
> http://www.northcoastmarines.com/barf.htm
> 
> Pat





Popebendgoldens said:


> I also think that those that feed a kibble diet gives the high risk dogs more chance to get cancer.
> Pat


These two statements are drastically different. The website you cite above states nothing about carbohydrates giving "the high risk dogs more chance to get cancer." It's comment on cancer and carbs is as follows "Additionally, carbohydrates are metabolized by the body to glucose (sugar), which is known to feed cancers,..." Now if you want to stretch that a little to the point where you say dogs are very stoic and usually do not indicate they have a cancer till it is very late stage and the kibble has been feedng it, that is one thing. But there is no evidence "a kibble diet gives the high risk dogs more chance to get cancer." 




Popebendgoldens said:


> Actually a lot about the Gold Rush goldens comes from not only what I have read but also from my mom (Cummings Goldens).
> Pat


Now in my opinion that is just repeating hearsay and is not proof of anything. 
I wrote Dr. Jaime Modiano at University of Colorado at Denver & Health Sciences Center about the inheritiblity of cancers. This was his reply.
_"As far as the genetics, we don't know the precise answer, but probably _
_not. Risk is what it is, and whether it manifests young or old is a _
_matter of how the inherent risk factors that exist interact with each _
_other and the environment, so there is a bit of randomness to it all._
_Some very specific types of cancer in people, and one type of cancer in _
_dogs are known to be "heritable" in the sense that the risk is _
_associated with mutation of a single gene (and the gene is different _
_for each cancer syndrome recognized)."_

Also the following is taken directly from Rhonda Hovan's article on cancer that appeared in the GR News a couple of years ago.
_"One thing you will hear all scientists say about cancer is that it is a genetic disease. But to non-scientists – and particularly to breeders – the word “genetic” does not necessarily mean the same thing that it means to cancer researchers. When scientists use the word genetic, they mean that they always need to look at genes to understand what has gone wrong to cause a cancer to form, because it is errors in genes that __allow cells to multiply without normal controls._
_But just because cancer is a genetic disease, does not mean that it is strictly an inherited disease. So how can it be genetic, and not be inherited? This is because genes are found in two kinds of cells, and one __kind is inherited, and the other kind is not."_​


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## historicprim

Popebendgoldens said:


> Charlie was the top winning dog in the 70's. That is why he is in so many pedigrees.
> 
> My mom, who bred Charlie, has very little cancer in her dogs. Her oldest golden is 14 years old. He is deaf but still doing great. She feeds a raw diet and that helps a lot.
> 
> I think that the Goldrush line has a lot of problems with cancer. I also think that those that feed a kibble diet gives the high risk dogs more chance to get cancer.
> 
> I have raw fed my dogs for 10 years and do little to no vaccinations so my dogs do live longer than most.
> 
> I also think that we over vaccinate our dogs. By getting them their DHLP shots every year, we are ruining their immune systems so that any high risk cancer prone dogs WILL have a much larger chance than other dogs to get the cancer. Now this is my thoughts but I think that after they get their puppy shots, they dogs should have no other shots. It's like this, why don't people get the tetnus shots every year? We may get them maybe once every decade depending on our lifestyles. Of for those younger folks, why not get a MMR shot every year? Getting Tetnus or MMR shots every year makes as much sense as giving the dogs their shots every year. It is the immune system that protects are body from diseases, so why kill the immune system just so the vets and the pharmasutical companies can get their $$$$.
> 
> Off my soapbox now....
> Pat


Please forgive me if I'm wrong but, wasn't Charlie the foundation of Gold-Rush? LOL... the Charlie who many like to claim caused the cancer in many lines?


----------



## Swampcollie

Charlie's Dad said:


> First, a little background.
> 
> My wife and I have had three dogs from Gold Rush. They are beautiful, smart, awesome dogs.
> 
> However, I am beginning to wonder whether they are cursed to die young of cancer. Maybe we have just been unlucky, but our first dog, Charlie, died at 8 years due to lung cancer. Our second dog, Savannah, just passed away last night due to hemangiosarcoma. She was almost 8 years old. I can only hope our remaining golden from Gold Rush escapes this fate.
> 
> Now, I understand statistics, and I understand that 60% of goldens die due to cancer and that the median life span for goldens is about 10.5 years. So there is about a 10% chance that I could have two dogs that die at less than the median age due to cancer.
> 
> So, am I just unlucky or is the Gold Rush line at higher risk of dying early due to cancer? Is the probability of a Gold Rush dog dying due to cancer essentially much higher than for the breed as a whole?
> 
> I have heard a lot of stories about Gold Rush dogs dying due to cancer, but with 60% of the breed dying due to cancer and Gold Rush being the biggest breeder in NJ, this alone is not surprising.
> 
> Regardless, though, I don't think I am willing to take the risk.
> 
> Now, living in NJ am I basically going to find that all the breeders around here have some Gold Rush in them? Do I need to essentially parachute into the West Coast and get a Golden from there? Does anybody know a breeder close to Northern NJ that has a non-Gold Rush line?
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated. Including names of any breeders anywhere that could perhaps have longer living dogs.


To avoid Gold Rush entirely, you'll likely need to go away from most dogs from U.S. Conformation backgrounds. 

Most straight up Field dogs include very little or no Gold Rush whatsoever in their ancestry.


----------



## Shalva

I believe that I spoke to this gentleman on the phone. I have a current litter of all European Lines and he expressed his concerns about gold rush but when I started talking to him about the importance of minimal vaccinations, diet and the environmental aspect of cancer I was told that he was really not interested in any of that. 

The fact is that lines are an important aspect with regard to cancer.... BUT the environmental factors are just as important. If you get away from the lines but then don't change how you manage your dogs lifestyle then you are only doing half the job. 

S


----------



## Popebendgoldens

historicprim said:


> Please forgive me if I'm wrong but, wasn't Charlie the foundation of Gold-Rush? LOL... the Charlie who many like to claim caused the cancer in many lines?


Yes, Charlie was the foundation of Gold Rush. And his mother, Ch Cummings Golden Princess was the foundation of my mom's kennel and lived a long and happy life. 

I don't think Charlie is the cause of the cancer in the Gold Rush line. The reason he is in so many pedigrees is because he was popular and a good looking golden.


I remember when the Johnson's came and saw Charlie in the litter of puppies for the first time. They weighed all the males and picked the one they wanted that was in the middle weight range. That was Charlie.

Pat


----------



## aussieresc

I'm so sorry to hear of your loss of 2 dogs at such a young age. My own Golden comes from Willogold in NY, I'm very happy with him. You may want to check the breeder out.


----------



## Swampcollie

Popebendgoldens said:


> I don't think Charlie is the cause of the cancer in the Gold Rush line. The reason he is in so many pedigrees is because he was popular and a good looking golden.
> 
> Pat


 
The issue isn't Charlie himself, he was a very nice dog. The issue is what was done with Charlie as well as his direct progeny. 

No dog is genetically perfect and Charlie was no different. There was quite a bit of tight linebreeding and inbreeding on Charlie, and then again on his direct progeny and their direct progeny. Too much of a good thing is not a good thing as it expresses not only the good qualities of a dog , but the bad qualities as well. 

The proverbial chickens from past are coming home to roost.


----------



## Ljilly28

Shalva said:


> I believe that I spoke to this gentleman on the phone. I have a current litter of all European Lines and he expressed his concerns about gold rush but when I started talking to him about the importance of minimal vaccinations, diet and the environmental aspect of cancer I was told that he was really not interested in any of that.
> 
> The fact is that lines are an important aspect with regard to cancer.... BUT the environmental factors are just as important. If you get away from the lines but then don't change how you manage your dogs lifestyle then you are only doing half the job.
> 
> S


Agree absolutely: one more thing learned from our oncology specialist- to avoid chronic inflammations & work to solve them quickly. Anything from ongoing ear infections to Lyme arthritis to food allergies. . .


----------



## Tahnee GR

Swampcollie said:


> The issue isn't Charlie himself, he was a very nice dog. The issue is what was done with Charlie as well as his direct progeny.
> 
> No dog is genetically perfect and Charlie was no different. There was quite a bit of tight linebreeding and inbreeding on Charlie, and then again on his direct progeny and their direct progeny. Too much of a good thing is not a good thing as it expresses not only the good qualities of a dog , but the bad qualities as well.
> 
> The proverbial chickens from past are coming home to roost.


SC is exactly right. When I looked at some of the pedigrees and breedings being done back then, I was appalled. Very tight breedings, done again and again. I'm trying to remember some of the kennel names and dog names but it was a long time ago.

I don't care who the dog is, or how healthy he or she was, you can't continually inbreed without issues.


----------



## Popebendgoldens

Swampcollie said:


> The issue isn't Charlie himself, he was a very nice dog. The issue is what was done with Charlie as well as his direct progeny.
> 
> No dog is genetically perfect and Charlie was no different. There was quite a bit of tight linebreeding and inbreeding on Charlie, and then again on his direct progeny and their direct progeny. Too much of a good thing is not a good thing as it expresses not only the good qualities of a dog , but the bad qualities as well.
> 
> The proverbial chickens from past are coming home to roost.



What do you consider to be inbreeding? Where is the inbreeding on Charlie? 

What is the tight line breeding and where is it in Charlie's background

Pat


----------



## Swampcollie

Popebendgoldens said:


> What do you consider to be inbreeding? Where is the inbreeding on Charlie?
> 
> What is the tight line breeding and where is it in Charlie's background
> 
> Pat


Lets see, just for starters, Kirby, Bear and Teddy. How many Goldens today have those dogs in their ancestory, and how many times? All of them are based upon Charlie. You can't keep going to the same well over and over again without consequence.

Every breeding decision made has both good and bad consequences, you get something and you give things up, every single time. There were too many decisions made that only considered what could be gained without considering what would be given up, and the long term ramifications it would have for the breed.


----------



## Tahnee GR

Popebendgoldens said:


> What do you consider to be inbreeding? Where is the inbreeding on Charlie?
> 
> What is the tight line breeding and where is it in Charlie's background
> 
> Pat


It wasn't Charlie himself-it was breeders who line bred and inbred on Charlie.

For example,

http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=9227

http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=6416

Now, I'm not saying that these dogs had problems or produced them, but that this type of breeding was all too common then. And it wasn't just Charlie, but he was a frequently used sire so he did have a huge impact.

This was not at all uncommon. In a way, it was a tribute to Charlie, as he did produce beautiful dogs with great temperaments but there were unexpected consequences due to the inbreeding.


----------



## Debles

How far back do you need to go to avoid inbreeding? In both my boy's pedigree I see Misty Morn's Sunset on both sides of Selka's but way, way back. Gunner's has no common ancestry that I see.


----------



## Shalva

Debles said:


> How far back do you need to go to avoid inbreeding? In both my boy's pedigree I see Misty Morn's Sunset on both sides of Selka's but way, way back. Gunner's has no common ancestry that I see.


its not about have more than one of the same dog in the pedigree but rather about where those dogs are in the pedigree and how often they were used and how tightly they were used.... mother to son... mother to brother... grandparent to grandchild.... having a pedigree that is linebred can be a good thing depending on what you are doing and what you are linebreeding on.... BUT it also comes with risks and breeders who linebreed have to know those dogs... both the good and bad... and then be cautious.... 

Right now I am looking at a flat coat pedigree for a puppy that I really like... with the potential of breeding back to my stuff.... but when I looked at the pedigrees there is a dog that I am not crazy about... so ok one dog ... no problem... but then I look at my pedigrees and that dog would be there three times.... once ok I can live with ... but three times in the third generation... I don't think so.... 

Even a wonderful dog can cause problems when linebred to closely or without due caution. But its not about finding a pedigree with no common dogs at all... 



s


----------



## AmbikaGR

Swampcollie said:


> Every breeding decision made has both good and bad consequences, you get something and you give things up, every single time. There were too many decisions made that only considered what could be gained without considering what would be given up, and the long term ramifications it would have for the breed.


And that of course is the hardest part to forsee, the long term ramifications. I don't think that there was anyone back then that did these breeding with the idea of "**** the future and the breed". And lets not lose sight of the fact that every breeding has two sides - a sire AND A DAM. So often these discussions center on the sire part of the equation as being the problem. Some times it is just a matter of side of a pedigreenot working well when matched with certain othe pedigrees. And this can happen just as well with a total outcross as it can with a tight line breeding. 
As stated earlier in this thread there are lines out there that do no go back to these dogs, you just need to look and dig deeper, they are there.


----------



## Swampcollie

AmbikaGR said:


> And that of course is the hardest part to forsee, the long term ramifications. I don't think that there was anyone back then that did these breeding with the idea of "**** the future and the breed".


I don't believe they intended to "**** the Breed" on purpose. I do believe there was a mindset at work along the lines of "What do I need to put together to produce the next winner". Breeders were looking at the style of dog that was being put up in the ring, and trying "one up" the dogs that were there with the next generation. If some Charlie was good, more Charlie would be better, and that mindset was rewarded with wins. 

The focus was on winning, not sound long proven methods of animal husbandry.


----------



## Popebendgoldens

Tahnee GR said:


> It wasn't Charlie himself-it was breeders who line bred and inbred on Charlie.
> 
> For example,
> 
> http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=9227
> 
> http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=6416
> 
> Now, I'm not saying that these dogs had problems or produced them, but that this type of breeding was all too common then. And it wasn't just Charlie, but he was a frequently used sire so he did have a huge impact.
> 
> This was not at all uncommon. In a way, it was a tribute to Charlie, as he did produce beautiful dogs with great temperaments but there were unexpected consequences due to the inbreeding.


Thanks for the clarification, I was trying to find where Charlie was line or inbred. 

Ye, I agree that Charlie was used way too often but isn't that the case today too. Once a dog get to be that popular, it becomes very easy to over breed the dog.

Pat


----------



## AmbikaGR

Swampcollie said:


> I don't believe they intended to "**** the Breed" on purpose. I do believe there was a mindset at work along the lines of "What do I need to put together to produce the next winner". Breeders were looking at the style of dog that was being put up in the ring, and trying "one up" the dogs that were there with the next generation. If some Charlie was good, more Charlie would be better, and that mindset was rewarded with wins.
> 
> The focus was on winning, not sound long proven methods of animal husbandry.


Ah, but that mindset is/was not limited to those conformation breeders. Would you not agree that their were those in the field game during that same time period that had those same tendencies when it came to dogs like Cotton, Red Devil, Devil and especially Barty?


----------



## tintallie

From the examples that Tahnee provided on k9data, those were a 3-3 breeding using a half-brother and half-sister as the sire and dam. 3-3 meaning the ancestors are the same in the third generation on both the sire and the dam. Other people prefer to line breed only as close as an aunt and nephew or uncle and niece which would yield a 3-4 or 4-3 linebreeding. Any closer than 3-3 would mean it is a father-daughter, mother-son, or brother-sister mating. As quickly as it would bring out positives that you want, it will also quickly bring out recessives that genetically cripple, maim, or kill a puppy from defects.

After learning more about pedigrees did I look at my own dog's and see Kirby, Charlie, Teddy, and Bear all in there.

Addendum:

How's this for linebreeding? http://k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=613 

Check out the COI on this dog: 
10-generation COI	27.95%
12-generation COI	29.19%

Top 5 ancestors contributing to COI, in order of influence:

Am./Can./Bda. CH. Cummings' Gold-Rush Charlie OS SDHF	13.71%
Am. CH. Golden Pine Glorybe OD	3.55%
Golden Pine's Tiny Tim OS	3.35%
Am. CH. Sunset's Happy Duke OS	1.67%
Am./Can. CH. Golden Pine's Easy Ace WC OS SDHF	1.40%


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## avincent52

Charlie's Dad
I sent you a PM. Check your inbox.
best
Allen


----------



## Swampcollie

AmbikaGR said:


> Ah, but that mindset is/was not limited to those conformation breeders. Would you not agree that their were those in the field game during that same time period that had those same tendencies when it came to dogs like Cotton, Red Devil, Devil and especially Barty?


I agree. While Barty was also used too much (and it did create a bottleneck problem in the gene pool) it still wasn't the same as how Charlie was used. On the Field side of things Barty was heavily used, but the other long standing successful lines were also retained and continue to the present day. The proverbial baby wasn't thrown out with the bathwater.

When people jumped onto the Charlie bandwagon, they tended to throw away those dogs and lines, that weren't of similar type, writing off a significant portion of the genepool in the process.


----------



## june007

*gold rush*

first my sincere condolences go out to you. i lost my 11 year old on new years eve...lung cancer that had spread.unknown to me and thank god clifford was himself until three days before...he was a gentleman to the end...anyway i visited gold rush on sunday just to get my feet wet again.beautiful dogs and pups galore..but im scared to death about the cancer buzz regarding them as well...what do we do?


----------



## hotel4dogs

what are the symptoms of lung cancer in dogs? 
Do you know if it was primary or secondary?
Thanks. I have an soon-to-be 11 year old (Jan. 31st) and a soon-to-be 12 year old (March 20) and I worry obsessively about them having cancer.




june007 said:


> first my sincere condolences go out to you. i lost my 11 year old on new years eve...lung cancer that had spread.unknown to me and thank god clifford was himself until three days before...he was a gentleman to the end...anyway i visited gold rush on sunday just to get my feet wet again.beautiful dogs and pups galore..but im scared to death about the cancer buzz regarding them as well...what do we do?


----------



## june007

*hi*



hotel4dogs said:


> what are the symptoms of lung cancer in dogs?
> Do you know if it was primary or secondary?
> Thanks. I have an soon-to-be 11 year old (Jan. 31st) and a soon-to-be 12 year old (March 20) and I worry obsessively about them having cancer.


 tanks for writing...i hope your guys live to 120...my clifford started making noises as if he was clearing his throat....oddly enuf, he also started to refuse to come into the apartment after his walks about three weeks before this...he had a bout of diarhhea which sent me to the vet, i mentioned the throat clearing and odd behavior and it was discovered w a chest xray. i can tell u thhat most lung cancers in dogs are secondary and have spread from another site...he never showed any sighns and had a great checkup and blood work 4 months earlier


----------



## Ljilly28

It is often discussed that the Bro/Butter breeding produced many of the best sire options on the field side of things. There's not such a huge gene pool for people trying to breed an AFC/NFC/FC golden,is there?

There's no difference in cancer deaths statistics re:field v conformation.


----------



## hotel4dogs

Thanks for the reply. I think maybe I"ll start a new thread about cancer symptoms....
Barb




june007 said:


> tanks for writing...i hope your guys live to 120...my clifford started making noises as if he was clearing his throat....oddly enuf, he also started to refuse to come into the apartment after his walks about three weeks before this...he had a bout of diarhhea which sent me to the vet, i mentioned the throat clearing and odd behavior and it was discovered w a chest xray. i can tell u thhat most lung cancers in dogs are secondary and have spread from another site...he never showed any sighns and had a great checkup and blood work 4 months earlier


----------



## Popebendgoldens

hotel4dogs said:


> what are the symptoms of lung cancer in dogs?
> Do you know if it was primary or secondary?
> Thanks. I have an soon-to-be 11 year old (Jan. 31st) and a soon-to-be 12 year old (March 20) and I worry obsessively about them having cancer.


I only know from my own experience. My little corgi/eskie, Sunny, had lung cancer and from what the vet told me, lung cancer is usually a secondary cancer. She must have had cancer somewhere else first. 

Her symptoms were having trouble breathing. She was breathing from her diaphragm and was breathing at faster pace than my other dogs. She ended up having fluid in the lungs and the vet found spots in the lung. About 1 week later she was PTS. 

I forgot to mention that my little Sunny was 14 years young

Pat


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## bb'smom

Hi, we are going through the hemagiasarcoma right now with our beautiful, just turned 8 Boomer. He was diagnosed the 1st week of Dec. with a pericardial mass and is just fading away before our eyes. We got him from NJ too and now I have to go look at his "family tree" to see if he is from Goldenrush stock. We are devastated and we have his "brother" who is 6.5 yrs.old (same mom-diff.dad but closely related). Our vet says it doesn't have to be familial but I am freaked.


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## farmingbury gold

I have a litter, born on 1/18 their pedigree has gold rush in it, but 3 generations back,and it was sire and dame in the fourth generation and the offspring was 3rd generation.


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## NuttinButGoldens

I'm so sorry for your loss.

All of my Goldens that have passed on passed from Cancer. Rusty at 10, Nikita at 8, and Comet at 12. None were related in any way.

I am glad to see someone is researching this curse.


----------



## Samgamgee'smom

*to Charlie's Dad*

Dear Charlie's Dad,
I know how you feel, We lost our Sam on Dec 7th, 2008 from cancer. He was 11 years old and the light of my life. Needless to say, my husband and are are heartbroken. I just checked his pedigree and he didn't have any gold rush in him. I got him from a breeder here in NJ who no longer breeds dogs. I've just started to look for a breeder and I want to thank you for giving me the heads up on golden's with gold rush in their lines. I will look out for it. If you find a breeder here in NJ please let me know. 

hope to hear from you soon

Samgamgee's Mom


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## chesneygirl007

I know my 9 month old puppy does not have Gold Rush in her. As both the mom and dad of my pups were imported, but I did get the dog from NJ but as the kennel is not breeding for some time now due to a partners death. I got my english golden retriever in Greenbrook. But my other golden retriever 8 yrs old does have gold rush in her and I do worry especially since she has a lump under her chin. So we check it periodically to make sure its still movable.

Kim


----------



## Popebendgoldens

chesneygirl007 said:


> But my other golden retriever 8 yrs old does have gold rush in her and I do worry especially since she has a lump under her chin. So we check it periodically to make sure its still movable.
> 
> Kim


If the lump is movable, it might be a fatty tumor. Have you though about having the lump removed?

Pat


----------



## Spun Gold

AmbikaGR said:


> I do not want to unduly concern you but I would take a serious look at he enviroment your dogs live in. If you use fertilizers and/or chemicals on your lawn or property I would stop immediately. I would take a look at any thing used to clean anything they comes in contact with - floors, carpeting etc. I am of the belief that in addition to a dog needing to predisposed to cancer the enviroment is just if not more influential.
> 
> Finally after reading several posts I see someone has brought up what I think has been obvious to me for a long time...
> 
> I have had GR for over 22 years now...my youngest dog to pass away...4 months shy of 12, the oldest was 17 almost 18...average age 14 years old. I look at what I do compared to what the average owner does. Here is how I differ.
> 
> 1) vaccination protocol for over 15 years has been as follows: I have completed the puppy series, then boostered at 1.5 years and then re vaxed every 4 years for DHPP...Rabies is only if my dogs leave the premises or travel on a dog show circuit.
> 
> 2) no heartworm preventative, no Frontline, no Advantage...no flea collars, flea sprays or powders. NO fleas shampoos, IF I have to use something I use d'limonine (I do heartworm checks every spring)
> 
> 3) no fertilizers on my lawn AT ALL. IF I need to do flea control on the lawn the dogs stay off of it for a few days.
> 
> 4) no additional vitamins added to my dogs food.
> 
> 5) I worm 1 time per year
> 
> 6) no chemicals of any kind in my kennel area or on my carpeted areas of my home.
> 
> 7) my dogs always travel contained in a crate...learned that the hard way after being in a roll over accident...dogs were fine just traumatized.
> 
> When I was growing up people didnt use all the 'stuff' they use now, our dogs always lived very long and healthy lives. When folks call me relating that their pet has died I take an informal survey asking about the dogs history and the things that they use on them, in them or around them...I have to believe that is a HUGE part of the problem.


----------



## AquaClaraCanines

Not giving HW medication in Florida would be a death sentence, but otherwise I agree with almost all of that, too


----------



## Penny & Maggie's Mom

Environmental toxins are a huge concern, and the one thing we can control for our puppers sakes. I do use heartworm.... like Jenna said, in our area of the country, it's a death sentence otherwise. We are, however, on a 5 week schedule. The monthly schedule is actually for convenience sake, they are covered for 40 (if I remember right) days. We use the diatomaceous earth for flea control in the yard.... totally non-toxic, and have a self mulching lawn mower. Actually, the yard has never looked better and we haven't used chemicals in years. Cleaners inside are non-toxic. My kiddos get bathed weekly (which in itself is a great aid in flea avoidance) and eat a nutritious diet. The "C" word scares me to death and I will do anything in my power to help minimize their risk.


----------



## Spun Gold

AquaClaraCanines said:


> Not giving HW medication in Florida would be a death sentence, but otherwise I agree with almost all of that, too


I know that there are some areas in the country which have heavy heartworm breakouts.

I think I would rather draw blood a couple times of year for a HW test than put poison in them every month...which you still have to do even if you have your dog on heartworm every month.

Screening instead of preventative is not in everyone's best interest. 

Here in Michigan I know we do have heartworm. I choose not to risk the health of my dog by the preventative and just do screening.


----------



## Popebendgoldens

I am sorry but here is Texas I do give heartworm preventative. We have way to many mosquitoes here.

I don't do shots at all. Texas has left it up to the counties when to give Rabies shots. In my county, the law is Rabies shots yearly. NO WAY!!!! I am of the belief that we ruin the immune system by giving yearly shots. A few of my cats had the manditory rabies shot to get neutered/spayed but nothing else.

I feed raw diets exclusively. I feel what goes in the dog is very important. Since I started feeding a raw diet the youngest age one of my dogs have died is 12 years. 

I have no wall-wall carpeting in my home. Just area rugs.

Pat


----------



## mis singbay

*Gold Rush*

Charlie's dad,

We had a golden not directly from Gold Rush, but he did have quite a lot of GR in him. We lost him in August to hemangiosarcoma at the age of 13.5. He was the sweetest most incredibly loving and gentle dog to live.

Maybe you just had two unlucky runs.


----------



## Nightengale212

I am new to this site and wanted to extend my sympathy for your losses. I too have lost two male goldens from cancer both at age 6, and my 3rd loss recently a female from a stroke at age 10. What my first two goldens had in common that also had skin problems, hip dysplasia, and in and out of the vet often throughout their lives was that they were fairly tightly linebred. Number 1 had strong Goldrush in his pedigree and Number 2 did not. When it was time to get Number 3, I wanted a pup from an outcross breeding to see if there would be health differences. I was very lucky to get my wonderful female Kelly who was from the outcross breeding of Ch. Tahnee Tupelo Xmas Cordial x Rhapsody Pebwin's Aretha. Kelly from day one was the picture of health, and in 10 years outside of annual routine exams I think I brought her to the vet once for an ear infection which was likely caused by all the swimming she did. Not only was Kelly healthy, she had such a beautiful temperment and was smart as a whip. I am not sure if it was the stars or the genes that were all lined up right when Kelly was born and unfortunately not for my others, but if I were to get another golden it would definitely be from an outcross breeding. 

Again, so very sorry for your losses.


----------



## Penny & Maggie's Mom

Nightengale212 said:


> I am new to this site and wanted to extend my sympathy for your losses. I too have lost two male goldens from cancer both at age 6, and my 3rd loss recently a female from a stroke at age 10. What my first two goldens had in common that also had skin problems, hip dysplasia, and in and out of the vet often throughout their lives was that they were fairly tightly linebred. Number 1 had strong Goldrush in his pedigree and Number 2 did not. When it was time to get Number 3, I wanted a pup from an outcross breeding to see if there would be health differences. I was very lucky to get my wonderful female Kelly who was from the outcross breeding of Ch. Tahnee Tupelo Xmas Cordial x Rhapsody Pebwin's Aretha. Kelly from day one was the picture of health, and in 10 years outside of annual routine exams I think I brought her to the vet once for an ear infection which was likely caused by all the swimming she did. Not only was Kelly healthy, she had such a beautiful temperment and was smart as a whip. I am not sure if it was the stars or the genes that were all lined up right when Kelly was born and unfortunately not for my others, but if I were to get another golden it would definitely be from an outcross breeding.
> 
> Again, so very sorry for your losses.


I'm sure Linda ( Tahnee) will be thrilled to hear this!!!!!


----------



## AquaClaraCanines

The risk of getting and having to treat HWs in Florida is SO HUGE. It is a GIVEN your dog will have HWs here if he does not get the prevention. I never test my dogs... since I give reliable prevention faithfully. I am more holistic than most- hell, I declined every single prenatal test there is for my own pregnancy, except the legally required HIV test and a couple of ultrasounds. But, some things, like prevention of HWs in FL, are just a necessary evil. The treatment for HWs is hideous... now maybe if I was in the North I wouldn't worry either. It's a shame here, even a 100% indoor dog is exposed to mosquitos, they come inside ALL year every time you open a door. And of course my dogs are exercised out of doors, and we get eaten alive by mosquitos most evenings that we are out.


----------



## AquaClaraCanines

We also have no carpet. I only use Advantix to get rid of fleas when a rescue brings them in, and I don't do annual shots ever either!


----------



## Penny & Maggie's Mom

AquaClaraCanines said:


> The risk of getting and having to treat HWs in Florida is SO HUGE. It is a GIVEN your dog will have HWs here if he does not get the prevention. I never test my dogs... since I give reliable prevention faithfully. I am more holistic than most- hell, I declined every single prenatal test there is for my own pregnancy, except the legally required HIV test and a couple of ultrasounds. But, some things, like prevention of HWs in FL, are just a necessary evil. The treatment for HWs is hideous... now maybe if I was in the North I wouldn't worry either. It's a shame here, even a 100% indoor dog is exposed to mosquitos, they come inside ALL year every time you open a door. And of course my dogs are exercised out of doors, and we get eaten alive by mosquitos most evenings that we are out.


TX is probably right behind you with the HW problem. You are pretty much assured of your dog being infected if no preventative is given. I do lessen their exposure to the chemicals by having mine on a 5 week schedule rather than "once a month". The monthly schedule is for convenience and reliability of remembering to dose, as the cycle of the med is effective for 42 days.


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## AquaClaraCanines

I totally agree!


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## Tahnee GR

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> I'm sure Linda ( Tahnee) will be thrilled to hear this!!!!!


I sure am  That was a very nice breeding! Scout lived to be 14 years old, and the rest of his line is fairly healthy and long-lived. In fact, 10 is young for me to lose a dog. I did lose his sister Scarlet at age 10 to 2 benign brain tumors :-(

I have honestly not heard of a dog having a stroke and am going to have to look into that. I have had several with geriatric vestibular syndrome, which is sometimes mistaken for a stroke.


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## AquaClaraCanines

We think our Miniature Schnauzer died (at nearly 17, so it wasn't really like we were freaking out- that's a hell of a great life span!) of a stroke. I will have to google the condition you mention out of curiousity. She was fine until the day she just couldn't get out of her bed and we put her down.


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## Tahnee GR

Here is a link to a pretty good site on geriatric vestibular syndrome:

http://www.canine-epilepsy.com/vestibular.html

I have had several older dogs with it. My first old girl got it twice, once at 12 and once at 15. The first time I was hysterical-I thought she was going to die. The second time, I knew what it was and it was much less stressful on both of us. She finally died at almost 17.5, probably from cancer.


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## tintallie

tintallie said:


> From the examples that Tahnee provided on k9data, those were a 3-3 breeding using a half-brother and half-sister as the sire and dam. 3-3 meaning the ancestors are the same in the third generation on both the sire and the dam. Other people prefer to line breed only as close as an aunt and nephew or uncle and niece which would yield a 3-4 or 4-3 linebreeding. Any closer than 3-3 would mean it is a father-daughter, mother-son, or brother-sister mating. As quickly as it would bring out positives that you want, it will also quickly bring out recessives that genetically cripple, maim, or kill a puppy from defects.
> 
> After learning more about pedigrees did I look at my own dog's and see Kirby, Charlie, Teddy, and Bear all in there.
> 
> Addendum:
> 
> How's this for linebreeding? http://k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=613
> 
> Check out the COI on this dog:
> 10-generation COI	27.95%
> 12-generation COI	29.19%
> 
> Top 5 ancestors contributing to COI, in order of influence:
> 
> Am./Can./Bda. CH. Cummings' Gold-Rush Charlie OS SDHF	13.71%
> Am. CH. Golden Pine Glorybe OD	3.55%
> Golden Pine's Tiny Tim OS	3.35%
> Am. CH. Sunset's Happy Duke OS	1.67%
> Am./Can. CH. Golden Pine's Easy Ace WC OS SDHF	1.40%


I realize I miscounted the pedigree generations: 2-2 is the half brother half sister breeding, 3-2 or 2-3 is the aunt to nephew or uncle to niece breeding.


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## montana

*Cummings Goldens*

We are the proud owners of 2 Cummings males born 1/24/08. For NJ residence Cummings is an excellent choice. Mary Cummings has a long (40 years) history of breeding Goldens and developing winners (Cummings Goldrush Charley, Westminster Best in Show, 2 years running...


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## Popebendgoldens

montana said:


> We are the proud owners of 2 Cummings males born 1/24/08. For NJ residence Cummings is an excellent choice. Mary Cummings has a long (40 years) history of breeding Goldens and developing winners (Cummings Goldrush Charley, Westminster Best in Show, 2 years running...


Thanks very much for your opinion. Mary Cummings is my mom and I will let her know your opinions.


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## Allan's Girl

Sorry for you loss.


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## montana

*Mary Cummings*

Pat...
Your Mom is great !! We love her and her devotion to the breed !! Kind of nice to sit around her kitchen table with visiting Goldens and having great conversation about the breed (caring, feeding, etc) and other interesting topics (politics,etc) I'm new to the forum so I could not email your directly, but will once I have 15 posts...

Wayne...


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## Rosie56

*responsible breeder*

Hi, I really this thread is old but I am thinking of buying from Goldilocks goldens or Alyson Fuge, in NJ. I am concerned because both carry the gold rush line.
Can anyone recommend a breeder that you are happy with? Thanks so much
rose


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## AmbikaGR

Rosie56 said:


> Hi, I really this thread is old but I am thinking of buying from Goldilocks goldens or Alyson Fuge, in NJ. I am concerned because both carry the gold rush line.
> Can anyone recommend a breeder that you are happy with? Thanks so much
> rose




What exactly are your concerns about the breedings and Gold Rush being in the pedigrees?


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## SunGold

Rosie56 said:


> Hi, I really this thread is old but I am thinking of buying from Goldilocks goldens or *Alyson Fuge, in NJ*. I am concerned because both carry the gold rush line.
> Can anyone recommend a breeder that you are happy with? Thanks so much
> rose


Alyson is a great breeder!


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## MILLIESMOM

Our Millie was from Goldrush line. We lost her to cancer in January. I looked at another dog in February and she also had come from Goldrush lines. She was from a breeder at the other end of the state from Millie's. This dogs grandfather was Millie's father. I was surprised to find that they were related. I have no idea on my new girls breeding as I do not have her papers. I did not know of the conversation of the Goldrush cancer question until I seen this thread.


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## MGMF

www.shoregoldgoldenretrievers.com

NJ Breeder without GoldRush


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## donna brandin

i am too concerned about the same issue. My sister and i both bought two dogs from the same litter at Gold Rush. Her dog Charlie died at five of lymphoma and my dog Jerry died at six of blood cancer. i have had Goldens all my life and they have all lived to the median age of ten and half years with the exception of Jerry. i do not know if there is any link or not but this too makes me pause to find a dog that does not have the gold rush line. Any suggestions are welcome because i am in search of a puppy right now.


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## Popebendgoldens

Donna,

Ann Johnson (owner of Gold Rush kennels) started out with a great foundation male, but has opted for quantity not quality in her breedings. I remember her and her husband when they picked out Charlie from my mom's litter. All the males were so hard to chose from so they weighed all the males and the puppy they bought was the one in the middle. That was Charlie or CH Cummings Gold Rush Charlie.

The following is my opinion only. My mom feeds a raw and dry diet and her dogs get plenty of exercise. She has had very few dogs die of cancer and when I last talked to her, the oldest female is Maggie and she is 14+ and aside from being arthritic and nearly deaf is doing great. 

Having disease free dogs means feeding a high quality diet and breeding quality animals. I, myself, prefer feeding a raw diet but I know that not everyone is willing to feed a raw diet. Both of my goldens are from my mom's breeding and were returned to her as adults. My male, Kodi, is now 9 years old and my female, Katie just turned 10. 

Feel free to email me off list and I will give you my mom's name and phone number.


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## KatieBlue'sMidnightSky

Wow---when we went in search of a new puppy, I figured I was being super careful in checking out clearances, looking at pedigrees, COI's of the litter, how they were whelped and raised, etc. I had no idea that Gold-Rush lines were so, what's the word I am looking for.....shunned? I had no idea there was such high cancer rates within that line. (I still don't know the actual rate of incident) My golden-girl Bella has Gold-Rush lines in her. I am going to try not to get in a tizzy--she's mine now and I love her so much and think she is totally awesome--temperament & intelligence, as well as beautiful. I guess all I can do is hope and give her everything I can to lower the odds of getting cancer. 

BTW, is there anyway of figuring out "how much Gold-Rush" is in her? I looked at her COI....but I don't truly know what that means. Gold-Rush's COI was on the bottom of the list at less than .50 or something like that. If someone is an expert at looking at pedigrees, I would appreciate some input. Her K9data is listed below. Thanks!

Also, I spoke to my breeder yesterday, and she talked to me about her opinion on the Gold-Rush lines, and that, in her opinion, Ann has worked very hard to bring other lines into her breeding to reduce significantly the cancer issues that were so prevalent in her earlier lines. (not verbatim)

Oh jeez......another thing to worry about daily? I'm going to try not to let this overrun me.


----------



## AmbikaGR

Kim take a DEEP breathe and relax. There is no scientific proof your pup is any more likely to have cancer than a pup from another breeder. And from what you describe as for the amount Gold-Rush at .59 that is not a significantly high number. Scientists are working hard to try and find the keys to cancer and the mode of inheritance. Hopefully they will find those answers in our lifetime. 
Take another deep breathe now and enjoy your Bella. Even if you are fortunate enough for her to live to 20 years of age that will still not be long enough and to waste even a half a day due to worrying over things that are NOT in our control would be a shame.



KatieBlue'sMidnightSky said:


> Wow---when we went in search of a new puppy, I figured I was being super careful in checking out clearances, looking at pedigrees, COI's of the litter, how they were whelped and raised, etc. I had no idea that Gold-Rush lines were so, what's the word I am looking for.....shunned? I had no idea there was such high cancer rates within that line. (I still don't know the actual rate of incident) My golden-girl Bella has Gold-Rush lines in her. I am going to try not to get in a tizzy--she's mine now and I love her so much and think she is totally awesome--temperament & intelligence, as well as beautiful. I guess all I can do is hope and give her everything I can to lower the odds of getting cancer.
> 
> BTW, is there anyway of figuring out "how much Gold-Rush" is in her? I looked at her COI....but I don't truly know what that means. Gold-Rush's COI was on the bottom of the list at less than .50 or something like that. If someone is an expert at looking at pedigrees, I would appreciate some input. Her K9data is listed below. Thanks!
> 
> Also, I spoke to my breeder yesterday, and she talked to me about her opinion on the Gold-Rush lines, and that, in her opinion, Ann has worked very hard to bring other lines into her breeding to reduce significantly the cancer issues that were so prevalent in her earlier lines. (not verbatim)
> 
> Oh jeez......another thing to worry about daily? I'm going to try not to let this overrun me.


----------



## KatieBlue'sMidnightSky

Thank you AmbikaGR! You are 100% right and I am doing just that! We are off to a bath, trim, foo-foo'ing...then passing our Pre1 Agility test tonight & starting our Int. Obedience today! Moving forward and will be enjoying every minute I have with her! No time like the present, because it is a gift!

Thank you again for your wise, kind words!

QUOTE=AmbikaGR;1487706]Kim take a DEEP breathe and relax. There is no scientific proof your pup is any more likely to have cancer than a pup from another breeder. And from what you describe as for the amount Gold-Rush at .59 that is not a significantly high number. Scientists are working hard to try and find the keys to cancer and the mode of inheritance. Hopefully they will find those answers in our lifetime. 
Take another deep breathe now and enjoy your Bella. Even if you are fortunate enough for her to live to 20 years of age that will still not be long enough and to waste even a half a day due to worrying over things that are NOT in our control would be a shame.[/QUOTE]


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## iansgran

One thing you can do is to go to the k9 data page for each of your dog's parents, grandparents etc and see if they are not still living how old they were when they died. It won't tell you want they died of, but will give you a feeling for the longevity of the line.


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## Monkeybear

*Gold Rush Line*

I too am so sorry to hear about the loss of your two dogs. I had 3 goldens from the Gold Rush line and youay, they are gorgeous but, all three died from cancer at 9 years old. My heart was broken as I have had many dogs of all different kinds and these 3 were my favorite, almost human. They not only understood words but understood sentences as well. I have some children that are Deaf and taught my Goldens sign Language and they are so smart and picked it up right away so my children could talk to them also and give commands. I don't know what to say though, I know cancer can be common in Goldens but I also know it is in that line. I have told them about it, so they know. Your 3rd dog is in my prayers. Monkeybear


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## Ljilly28

All goldens are at risk for cancer- it is our common sorrow as lovers of the breed.


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## andreagoldengate

*Cancer in Goldens*

I have read cited articles that American Goldens do have more than double the rate of cancer. That is why I am looking into getting one whose lines have been checked out by the breeder. There may be other factors such as chemicals on the lawn and food according to Goldfeather Run owner, Mary Buffie, but I do not want to deal with cancer, so will hedge a better bet and go with a breeder who is really taking a hard look at this.


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## AmbikaGR

andreagoldengate said:


> I have read cited articles that American Goldens do have more than double the rate of cancer.



Can you tell where these articles might be found and who wrote them? 
Also "double the rate of cancer" than what?

Thanks


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## Megora

andreagoldengate said:


> ...but I do not want to deal with cancer, so will hedge a better bet and go with a breeder who is really taking a hard look at this.


 
Make sure you go with a breeder who is carefully breeding long lived lines and is trying to weed out other health issues besides cancer. Having lost one dog to renal failure (because of hereditary issue) and two dogs to cancer.... the dogs who died from cancer suffered very little after very long lives, and they went peacefully. The dog who died of renal failure... it was horrific. Having dealt with both kinds, cancer is not as frightening as it may have been before.

I can only imagine the same thing with dogs who need to be put to sleep because of heart problems, devastating joint problems, and dehabilitating allegries.


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## Dallas Gold

andreagoldengate said:


> I have read cited articles that American Goldens do have more than double the rate of cancer. That is why I am looking into getting one whose lines have been checked out by the breeder. There may be other factors such as chemicals on the lawn and food according to Goldfeather Run owner, Mary Buffie, but I do not want to deal with cancer, so will hedge a better bet and go with a breeder who is really taking a hard look at this.


If a breeder makes a claim they breed cancer free dogs--RUN AWAY. It's simply not true. There are no guarantees in life.


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## Sally's Mom

And I will say it again, my golden who lived the least long had parents who lived the longest(they were 14/15). My golden who lived the longest had a mom who died from cancer at 7... there is much more to it than just parental longevity...


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom

Age at onset is a most important factor too. A dog that comes down with cancer at an advanced age, near end of life is a totally different scenario than one who is similarly diagnosed at a young age. As crass as it sounds, we all have to die of something and as said above many times there are diseases which are much crueler and painful than a late in life cancer.


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## HiTideGoldens

I would just be careful with putting 100% trust in internet articles or even in one particular person's opinion. Anyone can write an article about anything and put it online...it doesn't make the contents true.


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## Bodhi1

*Escaping Gold Rush*

Hi Charlie's Dad, So sorry to hear about Savannah. I have a 2 year old Gold Rush Golden, and have had 3 others with Gold Rush in their lineage. My first Golden from the line died at 10 from cancer, the other 2 of old age.

I have had 2 Goldens with no Gold Rush lineage and they both died of forms of cancer, Jenny was 8 and Trip was put down this Monday at 9 1/2. 

I have a good friend who bred Goldens for 30 years. She upholds the statistics. And has always told me that no matter the breeder, you just risk this when you have a Golden. 

Of all the Goldens I have had, my Gold Rush babies have been the smartest, sweetest of temperament, easiest to train.

I am heading to Princeton today to pick out a new puppy for my grandkids. 

Good luck with your next Golden.

Bodhi's Mom


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## lioneldawg

We got our "Lionel" from Ann Johnson at Gold Rush. He just passed away in April at 14. Never, ever had a sick visit at the vet. Only time he had a health issue was the last day of his life. We now have 7 month old "Cody" also from Gold Rush and doing just great so far!


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## oro perro

It's hard to escape the Gold Rush line in the American breed.

I personally have found that other breeders which have incorporated the lineage, have done a more "diligent" (w/out getting into specifics) job.


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## AmbikaGR

lioneldawg said:


> We got our "Lionel" from Ann Johnson at Gold Rush. He just passed away in April at 14. Never, ever had a sick visit at the vet. Only time he had a health issue was the last day of his life. We now have 7 month old "Cody" also from Gold Rush and doing just great so far!


 
So sorry you lost Lionel, it is never long enough. 
So glad you have allowed another to lay cliam to another piece of your heart. Good luck!!! :wave:


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## Texas Ranger

*All three of my Goldrush Goldens have died of cancer*

I've never blogged before but today I was looking for some kind of word on the breeder that I've always gone to. I bought a puppy for my mother-in-law twenty-five years ago from Goldrush. I'd never seen such a place. Such beautiful dogs. The folks who ran the kennel were wonderful. Katie the first dog had two surgeries for cancer before dying at 12. At the time I thought that very sad. She spent most of her week at my house with my small children, was a happy and sweet dog. 

When we realized that she was not going to last too much longer I went to Goldrush to buy my boys their own puppy. We got truly the cutest puppy that I've ever seen. He picked my five-year old son and that was it. We were in love and then heartbroken seven years later when he collapsed suddenly. After two days of starting his heart and doing every test we could the vet said that it was likely a tumor in his central nervous system and that nothing would work. 

Six months later we met our new baby Texas, named after his cousin, he became our center. On Saturday he collapsed and his heart stopped forty minutes later. He had just turned eight last week. My family is heartbroken all over again. I can't think how we will get thru this. To read these statistics make me crazy. 

I can say this though. Texas was a healthy, incredibly active dog. Trim and fit he barely looked two years old. I am grateful that the thing he liked to do best. Run and fetch were not compromised by hip issues. He was happy right up until he wasn't and in the end no one would ever want their dog to suffer. 

The ladies at Goldrush have always been great. I'm sure that they are devastated when one of their dogs die too. I've heard that lots of folk have long lasting pups from there. I'm not sure what to do but I guess I will go back and look at their sires and see what I can do. I appreciate this forum for all of your information. I hope there is some way to find a puppy in the future.

Thank you


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## Popebendgoldens

Texas Ranger,

I am sorry for your loss. I lost my nearly 10 year old male almost 6 months ago and and still missing him greatly. My Kodi died from HSA, which I feel was as a result of him getting Lyme Disease twice. 

Please try another breeder. 8 Years is way too young to have your dog die. 

I understand that Windy Ridge Goldens windyridgesgoldens.com has a wonderful breeding program. Please check them out and see if you can get away from having your dogs die in the prime of life.

Good Luck.


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## Dulcie's Dad

*reply*

I just registered for the site having never previously looked at it, but motivated by the very recent loss of our third Gold Rush golden only yesterday and by your message.

I have had three goldens from Gold Rush going back to the '70s. The first, named Patience, was a female. Patience died around age 10-11 in 1987. I don't recall the details, but I do recall that she had a large tumor removed when she was about 10, and then had a recurrence perhaps 4-6 months later and then died.

The second, named Dulcie, arrived in 1987 and died in 1997, barely age 10, also a female. I don't recall the details of her particular last illness, but it was certainly a malignancy, again successfully removed to extend her life for several months.

Max, the only male, was born in November 2003. We acquired him as a one year old "failed" stud dog from Gold Rush. Having been healthy all these years, he was diagnosed with cancer of the spleen and a cancer of the liver. I could find out the type of cancer if you wish; the important part for me was that it was basically untreatable, hence Max's demise. So, Max lived the longest of the three: 11.5 years. 

I would have to say that I've come to expect death by cancer of these animals, but have no idea whether Gold Rush goldens are statistically more prone. That' a question for a veterinary study.

I hope this is helpful.


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## cubbysan

Last year I accidentally stumbled across a website that listed all the breeders that do not have Gold Rush in their dog's pedigrees. I wish I could find it again. There were actually a lot more than I would think. I believe it somehow read the data in K9DATA.


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## wjane

I wish you could find it. Please post if you do. I'm thinking of getting a puppy in a few years and can't believe how much the Gold Rush line is in pedigrees - maybe b/c I'm looking at breeders on the east coast.


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## Prism Goldens

A lot of us avoid lines that seem to have more than average numbers of cancers, I wish it felt 'true' to say MOST of us do, but everyone has different goals. Look for longevity and temperament as goals, 
focus your search and make checking out k9data on every breeding animal you are considering. 
In their defense, Gold Rush does have an enormous number of puppies every year so it would be natural that they seem to have more cancers than breeders who have only a litter or two a year. I'd guess everything is seemingly more common when you have so many puppies. 
It'd be tons easier if people put COD and DOD on their dogs' k9data pages, I'd suggest you do that yourselves, no matter where your dog's pedigree leads. If the dogs are not on k9data, it's easy to input them. If you need help, ask, someone will put them in.


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## historicprim

Dulcie's Dad said:


> I just registered for the site having never previously looked at it, but motivated by the very recent loss of our third Gold Rush golden only yesterday and by your message.
> 
> I have had three goldens from Gold Rush going back to the '70s. The first, named Patience, was a female. Patience died around age 10-11 in 1987. I don't recall the details, but I do recall that she had a large tumor removed when she was about 10, and then had a recurrence perhaps 4-6 months later and then died.
> 
> The second, named Dulcie, arrived in 1987 and died in 1997, barely age 10, also a female. I don't recall the details of her particular last illness, but it was certainly a malignancy, again successfully removed to extend her life for several months.
> 
> Max, the only male, was born in November 2003. We acquired him as a one year old "failed" stud dog from Gold Rush. Having been healthy all these years, he was diagnosed with cancer of the spleen and a cancer of the liver. I could find out the type of cancer if you wish; the important part for me was that it was basically untreatable, hence Max's demise. So, Max lived the longest of the three: 11.5 years.
> 
> I would have to say that I've come to expect death by cancer of these animals, but have no idea whether Gold Rush goldens are statistically more prone. That' a question for a veterinary study.
> 
> I hope this is helpful.


I worked at Gold-Rush in 2003, I am very curious about Max and his pedigree, since I dont recall the name. Could you tell me his registered name? Also its interesting that the word failed stud dog was used at 1 year old.


----------



## montana

Purchased two Cummings Golden's in 1/2008. Two males, same litter. Lost one in July, 2014 at 6.5 years to cancer of the spleen. Second one still going strong at 7.5 years.


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## Goldngirl01

There are breeders like myself that have steered clear of Gold-Rush line, so we are out there. I also research lines for longevity when I bring them into my breeding program...we are out there.


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## AmbikaGR

Goldngirl01 said:


> There are breeders like myself that have steered clear of Gold-Rush line, so we are out there. I also research lines for longevity when I bring them into my breeding program...we are out there.



Have to ask what you mean by "steering clear"? Is there a certain number of generations back that you are considering?


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## bethlehemgolden

Goldngirl01 said:


> There are breeders like myself that have steered clear of Gold-Rush line, so we are out there. I also research lines for longevity when I bring them into my breeding program...we are out there.



I looked into your program, but decided you had been too far away. I hope you nothing but the best. You are doing a great service to this breed. Gold-rush I believe went down hill in the late 80's early 90's. At least that is when I got wind of the issues of some of the dogs, sitting in the vets waiting room.


----------



## Popebendgoldens

montana said:


> Purchased two Cummings Golden's in 1/2008. Two males, same litter. Lost one in July, 2014 at 6.5 years to cancer of the spleen. Second one still going strong at 7.5 years.


I wanted to than you for purchasing 2 of my mom's Golden Retrievers. My mom passed away Feb 2014. Unfortunately there are not many of her lineage left to carry on her line. I, too, have one of her dogs and she is now nearly 14 years young. Katie will be 14 in July.


----------



## montana

Popebendgoldens said:


> I wanted to than you for purchasing 2 of my mom's Golden Retrievers. My mom passed away Feb 2014. Unfortunately there are not many of her lineage left to carry on her line. I, too, have one of her dogs and she is now nearly 14 years young. Katie will be 14 in July.


Sorry for your loss. You're Mom was an exceptional person dedicated to the Golden line.....


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## Charlie's Dad

I'm really sorry I haven't been in this thread for eight years. Our third Gold Rush golden, Carolina, has now been diagnosed with cancer. She is nine years old. 3/3 with Gold Rush goldens, all dying early. We are crushed.

Based on researching everything after having lost two dogs to cancer, we went to English Cream for our 4th golden. This was the only way we thought we could escape the Gold Rush line.

Knoxville, our English Cream, is now seven and perfectly healthy.

We love our dogs immensely. We always have two, so they have company. Our next dog will absolutely be an English Cream.


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## LynnC

Charlie's Dad said:


> I'm really sorry I haven't been in this thread for eight years. Our third Gold Rush golden, Carolina, has now been diagnosed with cancer. She is nine years old. 3/3 with Gold Rush goldens, all dying early. We are crushed.
> 
> Based on researching everything after having lost two dogs to cancer, we went to English Cream for our 4th golden. This was the only way we thought we could escape the Gold Rush line.
> 
> Knoxville, our English Cream, is now seven and perfectly healthy.
> 
> We love our dogs immensely. We always have two, so they have company. Our next dog will absolutely be an English Cream.


Charlie's Dad - I just noticed your post. We lost our Gold Rush boy Nov 10 to cancer and he would have been 9 on Christmas. Also, my friend has a Gold Rush dog that was 9 in November and has cancer. I'm with you and also just brought an English Cream golden that we brought home on Dec 23. It's a shame about Gold Rush because they are beautiful dogs .


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## Sally's Mom

"English creme" is not a subtype of the Golden retriever breed...they are all golden retrievers. That type is not more healthy than any other type, that are just promoted as such. However, there are scientists in the Modiano and Breen labs who are doing research on the cancers in golden retrievers. And there is the Morris Animal Foundation that is doing lifetime studies on the registered Goldens. Hopefully, these groups will provide unbiased and scientific information rather than anecdote for us all to make intelligent, informed decisions when choosing our next golden.


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## LynnC

Sally's Mom said:


> "English creme" is not a subtype of the Golden retriever breed...they are all golden retrievers. That type is not more healthy than any other type, that are just promoted as such. However, there are scientists in the Modiano and Breen labs who are doing research on the cancers in golden retrievers. And there is the Morris Animal Foundation that is doing lifetime studies on the registered Goldens. Hopefully, these groups will provide unbiased and scientific information rather than anecdote for us all to make intelligent, informed decisions when choosing our next golden.


I'm sorry - was it said they are not golden retrievers??? Also, was it said that "English Creme" goldens are healthier?? I thought we were talking about the problem with Gold Rush!


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## Sally's Mom

We were talking about the health in Gold Rush lines. And the implication is that from the people who bring up going to English creme lines is that they are more healthy. My other point is that there really is no such thing as English creme....


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## Goldngirl01

"English Creme" is a COLOR & type...they also have their own set of health & temperament issues. The BEST way to get a line that has longevity is to research the pedigrees & look at the DOD & the causes on k9data...not just the parents, but the grand & great grandparents as well as the siblings & their offspring. Unfortunately that information is only as good as the owners & breeders being honest & forthcoming, since they are the only ones allowed to put in that information on that site...


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## Zeke1

Here's a great article about the topic of color:http://thedailygolden.com/2014/04/18/dont-be-decieved-english-cream-golden-retrievers/


God is good


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## Sally's Mom

I had a client look at my Christmas card this year. I have two 13.5 plus year old littermates. The female greyed very late and still is a medium gold and not very grey. Her brother greyed very young. Where he once was the same color as his sister, he looks white now. My client looked at him in the photo and said,"I always wanted an English Creme golden." Thank you Zeke's for posting that. My understanding has always been that the Goldens from the UK can be all the colors of the Golden rainbow and certainly come with their own genetic issues..


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## bob Shoemaker

Just lost our wonderful Boy Nate whose father was National treasure from Gold Rush out of Princeton. Nate fought cancer from the time he was 4. Above his right eye, in his left paw and then spread to his lungs. we miss him so much. If we ever get another we will look elsewhere for this great breed. nate just turned 9 in june.


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## kmalt

I had a golden from Mary Cummings and he too had cancer of the spleen, also of the liver. He had just turned 11. I had not heard good things about Gold Rush. Searching for breeders and was looking and the pedigrees of the parents of one litter going back 5 years and even further back - several Gold Rush dogs had passed away at 6 1/2 years.


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## Lor

*Cancer with Gold Rush line, not!*

All of our Goldens from the early Gold Rush line live anywhere to 13 plus to the oldest 17. Depends on how you take care of them. Stop the fat treats. Oh yes the over kill with kindness of table food. I feel it is the topical flea control and the pills to control the fleas and ticks that cause it. Less is more on control. Every 2 months apply after under control. Food is a factor but if the glands swell under the neck and the Dr. states right away it is lymphoma ? Maybe caused from Lyme From a tick. Doctors still can’t get a true result from a snap test. My opinion but I feel completely right on this statement. 
? Have found this to be true even in the humans.


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