# a warning about canidae/question about TOTW



## Rctriplefresh5! (Mar 24, 2010)

OK whats up everyone im new here! anyway, i had a question. i noticed TOTW makes a wetlands formula(fowl) and a bison/chicken type formula. i know that goldens were originally bred to catch birds, and all of that jazz, in your experience would you say a goldens tastes would lean most towards fowl? i am not interested in feeding TOTW, but this is something ive always wondered. i would imagine that goldens would prefer fowl meat to any other animals, but maybe im wrong? the formulas arent different nutritionally so how does one decide?

the second part of my post is a word of warning for anybody who feeds canidae. i have been a loyal supporter and feeder of canidae ALS for around 2 years. i stood by them when the formula change happened also. i decided a month ago that i was going to switch my dog to canidae grain free als. two days ago, i bought my first bag and have started the switch.
i posted this on another forum and im gonna post it here...

wow, i just got a SKETCHY response from canidae customer service!
on the grain free information page of their site,it says 
Made the CANIDAE® Way with Superior Quality: No Corn, Wheat, Soy, Grain Fractions, *Glutens* or Fillers and Naturally Preserved
CANIDAE® All Natural Holistic Dog Food - Grain Free All Life Stages dry formula

on my bag of grain free i had just bought, it says that exact phrase WITH THE EXCEPTION OF GLUTENS. this led me to believe maybe they changed the formula to include glutens without changing it on the website.

i contacted candiae, furious about this, and this is the response i got...

Thank you for contacting us with your concerns. We have never advertised a gluten free food. Could you please direct me to the place where you saw this information. As for the velcro issue, perhaps you got one of the bags before we introduced the resealable bag. Please let me know if you have any other questions.

Respectfully,

Beth Morgan

Customer Service Representative
CANIDAE Corp.
1975 Tandem Way
Norco, Ca 92860
1-800-398-1600


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## Oaklys Dad (Dec 28, 2005)

Food questions are always the toughest as there are few universal answers. Most of us have found a food that works for our dogs digestive system and coat and stuck with that. I think most here have had to try several before they settled on the best food for their dog.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Many here fed Canidae, but did have GI problems with the formula change and moved on. Both Canidae and TOTW are manufactured by Diamond, which for me is a problem. They do not guarantee their fish meals to be ethoxyquin free. While our crew does well on chicken, turkey and duck, they have also had beef, pork and fish and handled them well too. Many do very well on salmon.... but there again, make sure any fish meals are ethoxyquin free.... that the manufacturer doesn't add it NOR DOES THE SUPPLIER ( big loop hole there).


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## Rctriplefresh5! (Mar 24, 2010)

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> Many here fed Canidae, but did have GI problems with the formula change and moved on. Both Canidae and TOTW are manufactured by Diamond, which for me is a problem. They do not guarantee their fish meals to be ethoxyquin free. While our crew does well on chicken, turkey and duck, they have also had beef, pork and fish and handled them well too. Many do very well on salmon.... but there again, make sure any fish meals are ethoxyquin free.... that the manufacturer doesn't add it NOR DOES THE SUPPLIER ( big loop hole there).


well, canidae is made by diamond so it does have some ethoxyquin in it. ive heard mixed things about etoxyquin. i am not too concerned about it being in the food.

its sad, but there isnt one perfect kibble out there, and i dont want to feed raw.
orijen looks good on paper, but what happened in Australian is horrible. i live in new jersey, but who knows if this happens in USA TOO?

did your dogs prefer the duck based diet to the bison and fish diets? i just think that given goldens breeding purpose, they are meant to to eat birds MAYBE IM JUST CRAZY! THEY ARE NOT WOLVES THEY ARE BIRD CATCHERS! this has been proven by my shane!when he was a puppy he used to kill birds.

it jsut irritates me how the customer rep lied to me in my email, and how they lie on the site about the grain free being glutens free. also they just changed that saying on the bag, and obviously include glutens based on her response. she claims they never claimed they were glutens free, but the site says everything!


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

Welcome to the forum,

A while ago, my Beau (since passed away) had to be put on a different protein food. So I looked around and selected the Canidae food. Many people here on the forum fed their dogs that brand, so I felt comfortable feeding him it. One day after about 1 week after I was scooping out the food of the bag, I noticed some bugs and worms. I took it back to the store and got the money back right away. The store pulled the food and apologized left and right. The company never said anything. So I never will feed that food again. And not to long after that they changed their formula.


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## jwemt81 (Aug 20, 2008)

Our GSD used to eat Canidae ALS and she got extremely sick as soon as the formula change occurred. She started vomiting and eventually refused to eat altogether, which had never happened to her before. After reading about the formula change, we immediately changed her to Pro Plan ALS cold turkey and she almost immediately recovered and started eating again. We had also fed Candidae for several years without problems, but we haven't used it since the formula change. We now avoid any and all foods made by Diamond. Our Goldens eat California Natural Herring & Sweet Potato, which is made by the Natura Company and we have never had any problems with that.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

My springer has an autoimmune problem and does better on a food with a lower phos. level with moderate protein. He used to be on the Eagle Pack Holistic Duck, but they were sold and although it was sworn the formula didn't change, many had GI issues. I found Fromm 4 star line from a smaller, family owned co. that's been in business for years. I liked all I heard and read about their quality control and their duck formula has been really good for Cody. They have a fish formula, chicken, pork, and a grain free. However, he likes the duck. The goldens rotate around between that and Innova large breed, NOW and they all get some tripe as a topper or The Honest Kitchen as a topper. Many goldens with allergy issues do well on a fish formula. Bottom line, I think anymore that researching the company is just, if not more important, than the food itself. One that's had numerous recalls is not one I care to use.


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## Rctriplefresh5! (Mar 24, 2010)

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> My springer has an autoimmune problem and does better on a food with a lower phos. level with moderate protein. He used to be on the Eagle Pack Holistic Duck, but they were sold and although it was sworn the formula didn't change, many had GI issues. I found Fromm 4 star line from a smaller, family owned co. that's been in business for years. I liked all I heard and read about their quality control and their duck formula has been really good for Cody. They have a fish formula, chicken, pork, and a grain free. However, he likes the duck. The goldens rotate around between that and Innova large breed, NOW and they all get some tripe as a topper or The Honest Kitchen as a topper. Many goldens with allergy issues do well on a fish formula. Bottom line, I think anymore that researching the company is just, if not more important, than the food itself. One that's had numerous recalls is not one I care to use.


wow this is an interesting vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrErS7nM5-o&feature=player_embedded


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Tha is an interesting ( and disturbing link). If you haven't read it already, you may find interesting the book by Dr Marion Nestle, Pet Food Politics. Quite an eye opener about pet food monitoring and safety. She is also supposed to have a book out sometime this year about pet food which I'm really looking forward to. Her bio is very interesting ...... a very sane voice in this maze of deception. http://www.foodpolitics.com/about/


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

I was really happy with the Orijen until they did a minor formula change and Ranger started getting incredibly gassy. Like, "eyes watering, leave the room and don't come back for ten minutes" gassy. Then his coat started getting dry and brittle so we swapped to Innova EVO red meat. No gas and his coat is already getting better after a few weeks. 

Regarding taste preferences, my dad would never feed any lamb product to our border collie as he thought (jokingly) that it was "wrong for a border collie to eat a sheep". Ranger definitely prefers the taste of the EVO red meat to his Orijen fish and the Go! chicken formula. He can barely sit still when I'm scooping up the EVO and his tail is wagging as fast as it can!


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## slip_kid (May 12, 2009)

so what was the dillyo with the velcro?


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## MyBentley (May 5, 2009)

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> Tha is an interesting ( and disturbing link). If you haven't read it already, you may find interesting the book by Dr Marion Nestle, Pet Food Politics. Quite an eye opener about pet food monitoring and safety. She is also supposed to have a book out sometime this year about pet food which I'm really looking forward to. Her bio is very interesting ...... a very sane voice in this maze of deception. http://www.foodpolitics.com/about/


I found her book, Pet Food Politics, really interesting, but didn't know about her next book coming out in May. I'll definitely look for it. And I agree with your earlier statement that researching the pet food company is at least as important as researching a specific formula. At the moment I feed my dogs Natura's EVO Turkey and Chicken kibble, Honest Kitchen Thrive and some fresh goodies from my kitchen. It pays to keep investigating though.


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## bwoz (Jul 12, 2007)

Hi and welcome. We used Canidae for ten years but had to switch when the ingredient change happened. My dog can't tolerate grain heavy foods so it wasn't good for him anymore. I've been trying everything out there for the past year plus, and would love to have done raw too, but it just isn't realistic for me. I've been feeding FreshPet foods, it's whole food that is gently cooked so I don't have to worry about raw issues. I believe their headquarters is actually in NJ so maybe you've heard of them. I use the DeliFresh line with great results so far. http://www.freshpet.com/our-brands/index.htm Good luck to you, I know how frustrating it can be. Look forward to hearing more about your pup.


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## Rctriplefresh5! (Mar 24, 2010)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> wow, i just got a SKETCHY response from canidae customer service!
> on the grain free information page of their site,it says
> Made the CANIDAE® Way with Superior Quality: No Corn, Wheat, Soy, Grain Fractions, *Glutens* or Fillers and Naturally Preserved
> CANIDAE® All Natural Holistic Dog Food - Grain Free All Life Stages dry formula
> ...


got another email from them what lies...they say gluten free at the above link. i guess ill do a few more bags of grain free since i just switched then go to evo.

Gluten is a special type of protein that naturally occurs in some ingredients. We do not add any gluten nor have we ever advertised that we offer a gluten free food. Made the CANIDAE® Way with Superior Quality: No Corn, Wheat, Soy, Grain Fractions or Fillers and Naturally Preserved. This is our CANIDAE way statement that I copied directly off of our website. So I am still unsure where you are getting your information. Please let me know if you have any other questions.

Respectfully,

Beth Morgan

Customer Service Representative
CANIDAE Corp.
1975 Tandem Way
Norco, Ca 92860
1-800-398-1600



CANIDAE® All Natural Pet Food

Dog Food: All Natural, High Quality, Holistic Pet Food. Dog Foods, Cat Foods, Dog Biscuits 

Responsible Pet Ownership


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

Wow. It's right there on their website. Right on the page for their grain free ALS. http://www.canidae.com/dogs/grain-free-als/dry.html

And they can't figure out where you're getting your information? Again with the "wow." 

Our GSD has to be on a grain-free food. He has a medical condition that makes it difficult for him to digest grains. We put him on Wellness Core (ocean formula) and he's doing extremely well. Wellness might not be my first choice, but I can't argue with the results.

Our Golden is on a mix (about half and half) of California Natural herring & sweet potato and Fromm's 4-star duck & sweet potato. Neither are grain-free, but they're not overloaded with it either, and there's no corn. 

And I agree that Orijen does look very good on paper, but it was a nightmare for us. We tried the 6 fish and it didn't agree with either one of my dogs. I know a lot of people swear by it, but it was a disaster for us.


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## mike151 (Jul 7, 2009)

I am another ex-Canidae user (shame on them). I switched my girls to Dog Lovers Gold last year and they are doing great . Here in Dallas I can get a 33lb bag for $34.


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## Stircrazy (Nov 30, 2009)

Rctriplefresh5! said:


> orijen looks good on paper, but what happened in Australian is horrible. i live in new jersey, but who knows if this happens in USA TOO?
> 
> , they are meant to to eat birds MAYBE IM JUST CRAZY! THEY ARE NOT WOLVES THEY ARE BIRD CATCHERS! this has been proven by my shane!when he was a puppy he used to kill birds.


Ok so a few things, the Orijen thing was with *CAT* food and was the fault of the Austrailian gov as they required all inported food to be iradiated and thats what caused the problem. this is not a requirment with food manufactured in North America.

and no they are not Bread to catch birds, they are bread as hunting companions, who retriever birds and bring them to there master after he shot it. they are discourage from eating birds as how good of a retriever would they be if they ate them???? 

another thing on Orijen, the most problems I have seen people having is with the fish one. I use the regional red and am totaly happy with it, well except for the fact that it is the most expensive Orijen out there .

Steve


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## Swanolck (Jan 17, 2007)

I had Daisy on Canidae until they changed ingredients. It didn't work for her anymore. So I put her on TOTW Wild Fowl and she does perfect on it. Now my Newfounland on the other hand couldn't handle any of the foods, Canidae, TOTW, Fromm, Orijen, etc. I finally found Acana made by the same people that make Orijen and it works for him, so I tried Daisy on it and it doesn't work for her.

Every dog is different and you just have to find what works for them individually.


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## Rctriplefresh5! (Mar 24, 2010)

Swanolck said:


> I had Daisy on Canidae until they changed ingredients. It didn't work for her anymore. So I put her on TOTW Wild Fowl and she does perfect on it. Now my Newfounland on the other hand couldn't handle any of the foods, Canidae, TOTW, Fromm, Orijen, etc. I finally found Acana made by the same people that make Orijen and it works for him, so I tried Daisy on it and it doesn't work for her.
> 
> Every dog is different and you just have to find what works for them individually.


i love newfies almost as much as goldens. shane's stools are pretty soft, and im still in the process of switching to grain free. maybe im feeding too much? he weighs 75-80, and i was feeding 3 cups so i reduced to 2.5 then 2.25, now im feeding 2, and i refuse to go lower than that.

i give 1 cup of the old and 1 cup new, because we've been doing the switch for like 3 weeks already, i wont go less than 50/50 or we will never get him switched. tomorrow im starting him on 1.5 cups new and .5 cups old, and im leaving him there for a few more weeks, then im switching him to 100 percent new.

jsut want the stools to harden.


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## bwoz (Jul 12, 2007)

I know this may sound weird, but even the grain free may not have enough meat in them. They have to use some sort of binder, ie, potato, tapioca, etc. to be able to make a kibble. So depending on your dog and what the percentage of meat is in the dog food vs potato, grains, etc. it may still be causing stools that aren't firmer. Or it may just be a little too much food. Or it may be him getting used to it. I tried freshpet because they list the percentage of meat per pound. You could try adding meat to a good kibble to see if it helps? Good luck, I know this can be a nightmare for awhile, but you'll figure things out.


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