# Experience with "Golden Beaches Retrievers" breeder in Seattle



## sevengroove (Jun 12, 2018)

My wife and I live in the Seattle area and have spent the past couple of months talking to breeders and doing our research to find a healthy English Cream Golden puppy to bring home this fall. We are super-excited about it all, but boy is it a rabbit hole! 

We came across Golden Beaches Retrievers (https://goldenbeachretrievers.com) based out of Poulsbo, WA. Has anyone had experience with their dogs? They claim to have dogs with good bloodlines, all with OFA clearances, and do personality testing after the pups are born. They also offer two year health guarantees on their puppies (for hips specifically, I believe). 

More specifically, there is one consideration regarding the process I would like some input on. Based on the puppy guide on this forum and other resources, I did catch that AKC/OFA registration info for their dogs is not listed on their website. When I asked about that, the breeder mentioned that they prefer not posting certificates/clearances etc. publicly because they are worried about others potentially using those documents unscrupulously. I've emailed back to say that I'd at least like a summary of clearance results for the sire and dam in question, and would certainly like to see the documents if we meet in person. I'll update here when I hear back, but in the meantime, is it valid for breeders to be hesitant about sharing clearance certificates? Or is this something I should watch out for?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!


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## rabernet (Feb 24, 2015)

My thoughts? They have something to hide if they aren't following the GRCA Code of Ethics, which requires that hips, elbows, eyes and heart be submitted to OFA. There are hundreds of reputable breeders that have no problem doing so. By not doing so, you can't independently verify the legitimacy of their testing (ie, heart must be done by a cardiologist, not a general veterinarian). 

I also don't like that they seem to REQUIRE that you feed a food that they get a commission on selling. 

JMHO


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

I’d run screaming from this breeder. Par for the course for greeder breeders that advertise Golden Retrievers with the made up marketing term “English Cream” there are no health certifications on these dogs. 

The mom has a spectacularly lack luster pedigree for the last 2 generations. Pedigree: Krystal Diamond Beach Kisses You can literally see when nice dogs fell into greeder breeder hands in this pedigree. :frown2:

The quality of the dogs themselves is very disconcerting. Pictures of what should be very healthy and filled out puppy faces are instead snippy and weedy looking. I’ll attach a picture of the girl I brought home from Italy at about the same age so you can compare. No pictures on their website show any dogs standing which tends to hide poor structure. 

And for all this lack of health testing and poor quality they want you to pay $3000. :surprise:
For that price tag your puppy’s parents should have full and verifiable health certifications along with some competitive accomplishments and so should the generations behind them. 

Heck $3000 is about what I paid for my puppy and the round trip flight to get her. 

If you are stuck on color I would recommend looking north of the boarder at Tashora. Or reach out to Kingsgold, Timberee or Starz in Colorado. All are good breeders that happen to have some light colored dogs.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

sevengroove said:


> We came across Golden Beaches Retrievers (https://goldenbeachretrievers.com) based out of Poulsbo, WA. Has anyone had experience with their dogs? They claim to have dogs with good bloodlines, all with OFA clearances, and do personality testing after the pups are born. They also offer two year health guarantees on their puppies (for hips specifically, I believe).
> 
> More specifically, there is one consideration regarding the process I would like some input on. Based on the puppy guide on this forum and other resources, I did catch that AKC/OFA registration info for their dogs is not listed on their website. When I asked about that, the breeder mentioned that they prefer not posting certificates/clearances etc. publicly because they are worried about others potentially using those documents unscrupulously. I've emailed back to say that I'd at least like a summary of clearance results for the sire and dam in question, and would certainly like to see the documents if we meet in person. I'll update here when I hear back, but in the meantime, is it valid for breeders to be hesitant about sharing clearance certificates? Or is this something I should watch out for?
> 
> Thanks in advance for your thoughts!


https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=1844079
Oakley has no record- therefore, no clearances
Pedigree: Krystal Diamond Beach Kisses (as Krystal also has no clearances,so no OFA record)
Pearl and Coral also have no clearances. 
I wouldn't even entertain another conversation with these folks myself... any breeder should be willing to give you a link to the OFA page for their dog. If they won't, they are not being honest.


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## sevengroove (Jun 12, 2018)

rabernet said:


> My thoughts? They have something to hide if they aren't following the GRCA Code of Ethics, which requires that hips, elbows, eyes and heart be submitted to OFA. There are hundreds of reputable breeders that have no problem doing so. By not doing so, you can't independently verify the legitimacy of their testing (ie, heart must be done by a cardiologist, not a general veterinarian).
> 
> I also don't like that they seem to REQUIRE that you feed a food that they get a commission on selling.
> 
> JMHO


I did not know that this was a violation of the GRCA Code of Ethics - thanks for bringing that to my attention! And yup, the food requirement for the puppy guarantee did rub me the wrong way too.



LJack said:


> I’d run screaming from this breeder. Par for the course for greeder breeders that advertise Golden Retrievers with the made up marketing term “English Cream” there are no health certifications on these dogs.
> 
> The mom has a spectacularly lack luster pedigree for the last 2 generations. Pedigree: Krystal Diamond Beach Kisses You can literally see when nice dogs fell into greeder breeder hands in this pedigree. :frown2:
> 
> ...


Great insights here ... would not have caught the sitting v. standing thing myself. How exactly do you evaluate pedigree on k9data? Is it just looking back at the line and making sure they've all had their clearances? I'll look in to Tashora - any issues to keep in mind with taking puppies across borders?



Prism Goldens said:


> https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=1844079
> Oakley has no record- therefore, no clearances
> Pedigree: Krystal Diamond Beach Kisses (as Krystal also has no clearances,so no OFA record)
> Pearl and Coral also have no clearances.
> I wouldn't even entertain another conversation with these folks myself... any breeder should be willing to give you a link to the OFA page for their dog. If they won't, they are not being honest.


Yes, this was my initial thought - but I gave them the benefit of the doubt because I remember reading somewhere that OFA allows you to not make your records public. So they could conceivably be keeping up to date on testing, but not have it show up on the public database. Still a little shady as to why though, agreed. 

Thanks everyone for the great feedback. I had a couple of tiny flags go up in my head, which is what convinced me to post here - now they're waving all over the place!

I am a little partial to the cream colored English retriever, so if folks have references for good breeders within a 2 hour drive of Seattle I would greatly appreciate it.


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## projwoman (Jul 29, 2018)

sevengroove said:


> My wife and I live in the Seattle area and have spent the past couple of months talking to breeders and doing our research to find a healthy English Cream Golden puppy to bring home this fall. We are super-excited about it all, but boy is it a rabbit hole!
> 
> We came across Golden Beaches Retrievers (https://goldenbeachretrievers.com) based out of Poulsbo, WA. Has anyone had experience with their dogs? They claim to have dogs with good bloodlines, all with OFA clearances, and do personality testing after the pups are born. They also offer two year health guarantees on their puppies (for hips specifically, I believe).
> 
> ...


I purchased a puppy for Golden Beaches just last month and am very pleased! I can confirm that I was provided with all the AKC/OFA paperwork as well. I can see his lineage and results going back 6 generations. We visited the home twice in advance of a down payment and purchase. She was very welcoming and allowed us to see all the dogs and puppies.

I have read the comments above and agree that it is good advice in general when looking at breeders. I looked at a dozen breeders across both Washington state and Oregon. The breeders that had english creams for less than $2000 were very suspicious and had complaints about dog health with truly heartbreaking stories. They also would not allow a site visit nor would they show the parental lineage. They also seemed to have multiple litters at one time (like a puppy mill). I narrowed down to breeders that were boutique and only had one or two litters at time.

There were other breeders that looked truly exceptional but the cost were outrageous because they also included/required various levels of training and advertised their dogs with celebrities (to jack up the cost).

Golden Beaches was definitely on the higher side, but it was difficult to find a breeder that I thought was reputable and the dogs were healthy. I am curious about a comment above about the photos of the puppies looking "tweedy" - not sure what that means? The puppies were all gorgeous with thick fur and were sweet, healthy and stocky.

The Life's Abundance thing did bug me too, though. It is not a requirement but a recommendation - yes, which is a way for her sell her product. I have purchased from breeders (cairn terriers) in the past, and they all recommend a particular brand for a couple of reasons - 1) it is what the dogs have already been on and to switch too quickly can give them intestinal issues (unless of course you mix it in with your preference and increase the ratio over time); 2) they usually have an agreement with a food supplier as part of their business for promotion as well as negotiated pricing).

I saw another negative comment warning that no breeder should claim on their site that they are an "english cream." Sigh - there are numerous articles out there (mostly by golden retriever breeders) against the reference of english cream retrievers staunchly stating that they are actually goldens. This is splitting hairs. Yes - they are within the same breed but they are very different in their build, look and HEALTH. Their hair is not as long as the traditional American golden retriever, creams have a stockier build and more square head, they have not been over bred (yet) and therefore do not have many of the hereditary conditions of American Goldens, they also have a longer life span. ***this research was from every article I have read which have been dozens to help me understand the breed and form a decision whether to buy.

Bottom line - Goldens and Creams are of the same breed but with a different lineage. Creams with a European and Goldens with American. Unfortunately, American Goldens have become so popular in the states (and rightfully so) that many suffer from debilitating conditions and shorter lifespan. They do indeed look different. They are bred differently. They both have WONDERFUL dispositions and are amazing dogs. Here is a helpful article:

https://pethelpful.com/dogs/the-truth-about-English-Cream-Golden-Retrievers 

As for the Golden Beaches retriever, I appreciate advice that has been given. But can confirm that she is reputable, does indeed provide the AKC /OFA documentation. And the dogs and puppies were all beautiful and healthy.

Just in case - I do know of another breeder in the area called Calm River breeders. I actually had a deposit with them first when they had a planned breeding. Sadly, the pregnancy did not take - I had already been on a waiting list for a few months and it was going to take several months more before they "might" have a litter. I found Golden Beaches who had an opening. Calm River was supportive and gave me a refund of my deposit. I believe Calm River now has a litter due in the Fall and suggest you check them out as well. They were wonderful!

Hope this helps!


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

sevengroove said:


> Yes, this was my initial thought - but I gave them the benefit of the doubt because I remember reading somewhere that OFA allows you to not make your records public. So they could conceivably be keeping up to date on testing, but not have it show up on the public database.


OFA requires that passing hips and elbows be published. They do allow you to choose not to publish failing results.


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## sevengroove (Jun 12, 2018)

projwoman said:


> I purchased a puppy for Golden Beaches just last month and am very pleased! I can confirm that I was provided with all the AKC/OFA paperwork as well. I can see his lineage and results going back 6 generations. We visited the home twice in advance of a down payment and purchase. She was very welcoming and allowed us to see all the dogs and puppies.
> 
> I have read the comments above and agree that it is good advice in general when looking at breeders. I looked at a dozen breeders across both Washington state and Oregon. The breeders that had english creams for less than $2000 were very suspicious and had complaints about dog health with truly heartbreaking stories. They also would not allow a site visit nor would they show the parental lineage. They also seemed to have multiple litters at one time (like a puppy mill). I narrowed down to breeders that were boutique and only had one or two litters at time.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your reply, and congratulations on your puppy . I'm glad it worked out for you. We ended up going with a different breeder for other reasons. I have found it very hard to identify a breeder that meets all the requirements that I've read about. In the instances where I have identified textbook breeders, I find that I'm at the bottom of their preference list because I'm not retired/staying at home/living on a property with a massive yard. That's well within their rights to do, of course, especially if they have enough demand from that kind of clientele. So at the end of the day everyone can make their own decisions based on the information available, and the level of comfort and convenience that any one breeder offers, even though they might not be perfect in every regard. 



Tahnee GR said:


> OFA requires that passing hips and elbows be published. They do allow you to choose not to publish failing results.


Was not aware of this - thank you for bringing it to my attention.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Projwoman, the "studies" you quoted were not studies at all, they were retrospective surveys done without the same (or any actual) controls and are basically useless info..
those greeder types grabbed onto them and lend them the title 'studies' that those surveys do not deserve. Just so you know.


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## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

projwoman said:


> I purchased a puppy for Golden Beaches just last month and am very pleased! I can confirm that I was provided with all the AKC/OFA paperwork as well. I can see his lineage and results going back 6 generations. We visited the home twice in advance of a down payment and purchase. She was very welcoming and allowed us to see all the dogs and puppies.
> 
> I have read the comments above and agree that it is good advice in general when looking at breeders. I looked at a dozen breeders across both Washington state and Oregon. The breeders that had english creams for less than $2000 were very suspicious and had complaints about dog health with truly heartbreaking stories. They also would not allow a site visit nor would they show the parental lineage. They also seemed to have multiple litters at one time (like a puppy mill). I narrowed down to breeders that were boutique and only had one or two litters at time.
> 
> ...


Perhaps you were shown preliminary results? None of the dogs on their website have health certifications. One of their stud dogs has a pretty concerning family history. His grandmother had hip AND elbow dysplasia and his half sibling failed hips too.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

yeah- I would be scared to death to take a puppy home w that OFA record. None of the dogs at Golden Beaches have a complete OFA record w all the core clearances, and most of them have frightening sire/dam or full sibling OFA files. If projwoman saw anything it was prelims. Which are NOT clearances.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

projwoman said:


> Just in case - I do know of another breeder in the area called Calm River breeders. I actually had a deposit with them first when they had a planned breeding. Sadly, the pregnancy did not take - I had already been on a waiting list for a few months and it was going to take several months more before they "might" have a litter. I found Golden Beaches who had an opening. Calm River was supportive and gave me a refund of my deposit. I believe Calm River now has a litter due in the Fall and suggest you check them out as well. They were wonderful!
> 
> Hope this helps!


Calm River- Lizzie has no passing elbow clearance. 
She's been bred anyway...
Gracie has also been bred- she has no elbow, heart or eye clearance. this is not a thoughtful breeder either. I suspect you bought a color and not a healthy dog...

I'm sure these folks who are posed smiling on their 'our story' page are nice enough people- but they are purporting untruths as to ECGRs and are doing the breed zero favors by making puppies who have not got a full complement of clearances behind them. As well, they do not do anything w their dogs besides breed them so they do not have a honed eye or a good mentor who is active in the breed. Sigh.. if people would just start out involved before they start cranking out puppies, we might have a bigger pool of good breeders.


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## ceegee (Mar 26, 2015)

projwoman said:


> I saw another negative comment warning that no breeder should claim on their site that they are an "english cream." Sigh - there are numerous articles out there (mostly by golden retriever breeders) against the reference of english cream retrievers staunchly stating that they are actually goldens. This is splitting hairs. Yes - they are within the same breed but they are very different in their build, look and HEALTH. Their hair is not as long as the traditional American golden retriever, creams have a stockier build and more square head, they have not been over bred (yet) and therefore do not have many of the hereditary conditions of American Goldens, they also have a longer life span. ***this research was from every article I have read which have been dozens to help me understand the breed and form a decision whether to buy.
> 
> Bottom line - Goldens and Creams are of the same breed but with a different lineage. Creams with a European and Goldens with American. Unfortunately, American Goldens have become so popular in the states (and rightfully so) that many suffer from debilitating conditions and shorter lifespan. They do indeed look different. They are bred differently. They both have WONDERFUL dispositions and are amazing dogs. Here is a helpful article:
> 
> https://pethelpful.com/dogs/the-truth-about-English-Cream-Golden-Retrievers



I'm sorry, but it's not "splitting hairs". Golden retrievers are Golden retrievers, regardless of where they come from. Those that are marketed as "English Creams" may be stockier, with blockier heads, but they are Golden retrievers just the same. The difference is that "Creams", as their name implies, are bred for their colour, not for their other characteristics. I suggest you read the "Breeding Philosophy" page of Gaylan's Golden Retrievers. Gaylan's owner is one of the leading breeders of Goldens in North America and is respected throughout the world for her knowledge of and contribution to the breed. Bottom line: if you breed for colour, you're neglecting other, much more important characteristics such as temperament, general soundness, biddability, etc. That alone would be a good reason for me to avoid buying a dog bred primarily for its colour.



A longer life span? There is a lot of research out there to suggest that dogs in general - not just Goldens - may live longer in certain European countries because they are not spayed or neutered. In North America, early spaying and neutering has become a knee-jerk reaction for most pet owners. There is an increasing amount of compelling evidence from scientific studies, showing that dogs that are spayed or neutered later, or not at all, are at less risk for certain types of cancer. If you are comparing longevity between countries, this is most certainly something you should be considering.



And as for debilitating conditions: Your statement that "English Creams do not have many of the hereditary conditions of American goldens" is simply incorrect. Golden retrievers, regardless of where they come from in the world, are highly prone to hip and elbow malformations, and to some very nasty eye and heart diseases and conditions (go and read the UK Kennel Club website if you don't believe me). They will not die of these disorders, but their quality of life will be affected. And these disorders are very expensive to treat: they will cost many thousands of dollars over the dog's lifetime. So it is _very important _that the dogs in a pedigree have been tested and shown to be free of these problems. The difficulty with many of the dogs marketed as "English Creams" is that their parents or close ancestors have been imported from Eastern European countries where health testing can be spotty at best. There is no way to check on their history. That alone is a reason why I would avoid buying a dog descended from these lines.


I suspect that most if not all of the "many articles" you have read were on the websites of breeders selling "English Cream" dogs - since these are the sites that come up in Internet searches for "golden retriever health" or "differences between English and American Goldens". It is inaccurate to describe these articles as "research" because they are not: they are biased opinions based on other biased opinions. When you read an article, including the one you link in your post, which contains a number of inaccuracies, you need to consider the source - always.


When you buy a puppy, it is, of course, your right to spend your money as you wish. If the dog's colour is more important to you than its other characteristics, then by all means buy your pup from an "English Cream" breeder to get the colour and general appearance that you want. But at the very least be aware of the risks and check the pedigree for health testing over the generations. And don't fall victim to all the marketing hype.



And for what it's worth, I'm originally from England, although I live in North America now.


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## annef (Feb 23, 2008)

I met several tourists from the USA when I was up at the golden retriever gathering in Scotland. Not the breeders that attended the gathering but members of the public when we were out and about in Skye and in Inverness. Their main question was: 
Are these English Creams- no these are golden retrievers bred to the KC standard in the country of origin and our standard accepts any shade of cream or gold.
Are they what you call silver retrievers- no these are golden retrievers.
I have never seen golden retrievers that colour before- this colour is allowed in goldens in the UK

The girls had a great time being fussed by everyone, but easy to see how people had been educated into the 'English cream' myth

Annef


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

annef said:


> I met several tourists from the USA when I was up at the golden retriever gathering in Scotland. Not the breeders that attended the gathering but members of the public when we were out and about in Skye and in Inverness. Their main question was:
> Are these English Creams- no these are golden retrievers bred to the KC standard in the country of origin and our standard accepts any shade of cream or gold.
> Are they what you call silver retrievers- no these are golden retrievers.
> I have never seen golden retrievers that colour before- this colour is allowed in goldens in the UK
> ...


Thank you Annef for continuing to check in here and educate people on this subject. Your perspective is greatly needed on this forum. (For those who may not be aware, Annef has a bit of experience with Goldens in the UK  ) https://www.goldenretrieverforum.co...lts/151514-best-breed-crufts.html#post2337962


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