# breeder review



## burnstribe (Nov 30, 2014)

Does anyone have any feedback positive or negative from Le Chien D'Or Blanc Golden Retrievers in California

Golden Retriever Puppies - White Golden Retriever Puppies for sale!

Any information would be great thanks!


----------



## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Welcome to the forum, glad you've joined us. 

There are several threads called " Stickys" in the Choosing a Breeder and Puppy section, here is the link for them-

Choosing A Golden Retriever Breeder & Puppy - Golden Retrievers : Golden Retriever Dog Forums

You may want to visit the GRCA website, they have a Puppy Referral.

Here are the links-

GRCA-
Golden Retriever Club of America GRCA: The Official AKC National Breed Club

Puppy referral-
Golden Retriever Puppies: GRCA Puppy Referral: Golden Retriever Club of America (GRCA) Find your Golden Retriever Pupppy Here

Best of luck in your search for a Breeder and puppy


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Most every litter has a light puppy in it- 
these puppies are WAY overpriced, especially given that they come from parents with no investment in them re: showing, titling in performance-
these puppies are bred merely to make "white Goldens"- 
I'd run. You can get a light Golden puppy from a reputable breeder easily enough, and not pay twice what these folks would charge you. I didn't check out any of the clearances, or do any real research via their site, simply because as a reputable breeder myself, I can see just from their available puppy page that they are in it for the bucks and not the breed.
Look around- check w/the GRCA club nearest you- you'll get a puppy that's well-bred (and these are not well-bred puppies just because the site says so trust me on that one) and then post those breeders here. There will be a two thumbs up among those and you will have lifelong support from a reputable breeder.


----------



## kbear (Aug 27, 2014)

they have beautiful pups but their prices are awfully steep! $2800--$3400?? yikes!


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

And they take Pay Pal!!! 
That's scary- they can't get to know you as a future home if you just have to click 'pay now', and you don't want that kind of breeder methinks.


----------



## burnstribe (Nov 30, 2014)

*breeder recommendations*

Thanks for your input - would you have a breeder in the SOCAL area that you would recommend? We are new to California and our retriever just passed away a month ago and left a big void in our family.


----------



## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

I'm sorry for the loss of your dog, it is very hard to go through. Please take a look at the health clearances that are listed by the Golden Retriever Club of America. Any breeder you look at should have these clearances in place on the parents of a litter as a BARE MINIMUM. if you familiarize yourself with them and educate yourself as much as possible you will be less likely to be taken advantage of by an unscrupulous breeder. 

Golden Retriever Club of America (GRCA)Health Screenings for the Parents of a Litter

Golden Retriever puppies:Golden Retriever Club of America (GRCA) ALL ABOUT GOLDENS

Local clubs can be helpful in helping you locate a reputable breeder who is dedicated to health clearances on breeding dogs and raises puppies the right way, competes with their dogs etc. You will wait longer for a puppy from a reputable breeder in most cases, but it stacks the odds in your favor of having a healthy Golden if you take your time and research for the right litter. 

Golden Retriever Puppies: GRCA Puppy Referral: Golden Retriever Club of America (GRCA) Find your Golden Retriever Pupppy Here

you can also search this forum for threads on breeders in your region that should have helpful information.


----------



## Beaniebaby (Nov 30, 2014)

Prism Goldens said:


> Most every litter has a light puppy in it-
> these puppies are WAY overpriced, especially given that they come from parents with no investment in them re: showing, titling in performance-
> these puppies are bred merely to make "white Goldens"-
> I'd run. You can get a light Golden puppy from a reputable breeder easily enough, and not pay twice what these folks would charge you. I didn't check out any of the clearances, or do any real research via their site, simply because as a reputable breeder myself, I can see just from their available puppy page that they are in it for the bucks and not the breed.
> Look around- check w/the GRCA club nearest you- you'll get a puppy that's well-bred (and these are not well-bred puppies just because the site says so trust me on that one) and then post those breeders here. There will be a two thumbs up among those and you will have lifelong support from a reputable breeder.


I have 2 Goldens from them! They are beautiful and smart and from European Champions and World Champions! Look at your own page... 2 litters in 1 year Golden Puppies Florida | Premier Golden Retriever Breeder Ocala, Florida Champion Golden Retrievers Florida -“Molly Bloom” | Golden Retriever Breeder Ocala, Florida I don't see any World Champions in your dogs pedigrees? Just look at all the past litters you have had http://www.tennesseegoldens.com/PastLitters.html Can people write just anything they want on this blog?


----------



## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

What the heck is a world champion & what does it take to become one?


----------



## CharlieBear80 (Oct 13, 2013)

Beaniebaby said:


> I have 2 Goldens from them! They are beautiful and smart and from European Champions and World Champions! Look at your own page... 2 litters in 1 year Golden Puppies Florida | Premier Golden Retriever Breeder Ocala, Florida and not very attractive either I might add. Champion Golden Retrievers Florida -“Molly Bloom” | Golden Retriever Breeder Ocala, Florida I don't see any World Champions in your dogs pedigrees? Can people write just anything they want on this blog?


Wow. Um, Prism is a very well respected breeder, for one thing. For another, 2 litters in one year is completely reasonable. Although I guess you are entitled to your opinion about the attractiveness of her dogs, I doubt you'll find anyone else here that agrees with you (Molly Bloom is gorgeous). Lastly, "world champion" doesn't mean anything so I'm not sure what point you are trying to make there? Prism competes with her dogs in several US venues quite successfully though, so...


----------



## Doug (Jul 17, 2010)

Please keep your posts polite and be respectful of other people's opinions at all times.
Let's focus on helping Burnstribe find the right pup for them.


----------



## cram501 (Nov 16, 2014)

I would suggest defending the breeder based on clearances and first hand experience with the dogs. Denigrating a beautiful Golden really doesn't help.

I've seen some Goldens that were not as beautiful as mine (probably get the same comment from about anyone that has a Golden), but I've never seen one that wasn't attractive.


----------



## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

World Champion can actually be a very prestigious award in Europe. However, just as with American titles, titles back a few generations do not have any meaning when it comes to the quality of a current litter. It takes only one poorly thought out breeding to ruin all the hard work that went into those Champion titles. Not to mention that even two Champions bred together will produce pets as well as, hopefully, a few show potentials.

And this does not even touch on clearances. Again, the breeders I know, like Prism, proudly post pedigrees and clearance links to their dogs and their litters. They have nothing to hide and are proud of their dogs, their accomplishments and their breeding program.


----------



## Beaniebaby (Nov 30, 2014)

*World Champions*

If World Champions does not mean anything why do breeders compete? I got to see all the papers when i bought mine.


----------



## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

My guess is that Beaniebaby actually _is_ that white golden breeder, pretending to be a puppy buyer. Given the tone and the fact that on her website she posted, "Welcome spies from Golden Retriever Forum I can see your IP address and where you are from!" my guess is Beaniebaby is her. (And Beaniebaby, have fun with my IP address, as I'm writing you from the grounds of a dog show in Yuma, AZ.)

I'll say that just from what she has written on her web site, I would run far, far away from this breeder. Just picked out their "Charlie" at random, and note that his hips and elbow clearances are July 2014 at 41 months old, yet he has offspring born in 2012 and 2013, way before he obtained clearances. That doesn't sound like an ethical breeder, to me. Plus the heart clearance is by a "practitioner" rather than a specialist, and he has no eye clearance posted. It's much the same with their "Teddy," who just sired two litters, apparently. His hip and elbow clearances are likewise June 2014, and he was born June 2012, yet has offspring born May 9, 2013 and May 20, 2013! Wow!

The first titles of any kind aren't until three generations behind Charlie, and thus 4 generations from any puppies he produces, and they breed their own dogs together, indicating that they are not looking for sires to match or improve on the dam. Plus they refer to their puppy buyers as "customers," which says something about how they think of their breeding program. So without reading any further, I wouldn't buy a puppy from these folks, ever, and I would not recommend them to someone who asked.

(And I think Molly Bloom is a lovely girl, with a nice pedigree.)


----------



## Beaniebaby (Nov 30, 2014)

DanaRuns said:


> My guess is that Beaniebaby actually _is_ that white golden breeder, pretending to be a puppy buyer. Given the tone and the fact that on her website she posted, "Welcome spies from Golden Retriever Forum I can see your IP address and where you are from!" my guess is Beaniebaby is her. (And Beaniebaby, have fun with my IP address, as I'm writing you from the grounds of a dog show in Yuma, AZ.)
> 
> I'll say that just from what she has written on her web site, I would run far, far away from this greeder. Just picked out their "Charlie" at random, and note that his hips and elbow clearances are July 2014 at 41 months old, yet he has offspring born in 2012 and 2013, way before he obtained clearances. That doesn't sound like an ethical breeder, to me. Plus the heart clearance is by a "practitioner" rather than a specialist, and he has no eye clearance posted.
> 
> The first titles of any kind aren't until three generations back, and they breed their own dogs together, indicating that they are not looking for sires to match or improve on the dam. Plus they refer to their puppy buyers as "customers," which says something about how they think of their breeding program. So without reading any further, I wouldn't buy a puppy from these folks, ever, and I would not recommend them to someone who asked.


No I am not the breeder but I am very close to them after I bought my dogs. Look up his OFA on offa.org


----------



## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

I couldn't support a breeder that's using their website like that--completely unprofessional. I also could only support a breeder who is actively working with their goldens to actually prove their claims--no riding on the coat tails of others.


----------



## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

Beaniebaby said:


> No I am not the breeder but I am very close to them after I bought my dogs. Look up his OFA on offa.org


I looked up Teddy and Charlie, and that was enough for me to see that this is not an ethical breeder.


----------



## Beaniebaby (Nov 30, 2014)

*Bash the English Breeder Forum*



DanaRuns said:


> I looked up Teddy and Charlie, and that was enough for me to see that this is not an ethical breeder.


Well I am happy with my dogs and the breeders were very professional and very nice people and their dogs have all the OFA papers so I don't know where you get that they are unethical breeders.


----------



## GoldensGirl (Aug 2, 2010)

Let me make this clear, in case colleague Doug has not. We will not tolerate rudeness to members or any form of character assassination. If you cannot be polite, please don't post at all. If the tone of this thread does not improve, the thread may be closed and/or sanctions issued to individuals.

Thank you.


----------



## Ilovepuppybreath (Dec 1, 2014)

Thank you moderator but it's a little too late now! Our name is smeared all over the internet. To make thinga clear here, these breeders have never been to our Ranch, they don't even know us. All our dogs over 1 year of age have ALL health clearances from OFA. NONE are bred until they have Preliminary testings @ 12 months and are not bred until the second heat and are retested at 2 years of age. You can easily look up the health clearances on the OFA site. There is nothing un-ethical with our practices! Assumptions are ugly things and can be proven in court to be false. Furthermore our Goldens have excellent conformation, temperament and health. They have been bought from the best breeders in Europe. You can not minimize that these dogs come from World and Multi Champion lines. They have it all. Thank you!


----------



## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

Ilovepuppybreath said:


> Thank you moderator but it's a little too late now! Our name is smeared all over the internet. To make thing clear here, these breeders have never been to our Ranch or ever even come in contact with us until today. All our dogs over 1 year of age have ALL health clearances from OFA. NONE are bred until they have Preliminary testings 12 months and are not bred until the second heat and are retested at 2 years of age. There is nothing un-ethical with our practices! Thank you!


With final clearances not able to be accomplished at 2 yrs of age, breeding a pup at 1 yr would not be in line with the GRCA. I think there have been a number of examples on this forum alone on why one shouldn't breed on prelims (which are not clearances). No one is questioning the ranch set up the issue IMO is breeding underaged dogs without clearances--no visit required when clearances are to be made available via an open database such as OFA. Also, w/ heart issues in the breed, a cardiologist cleared heart is what's recommended.

Do you actively show your dogs (conformation, obedience, agility, field...)


----------



## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

From the GRCA Code of Ethics for breeders:

I. Dogs selected for breeding should:

Be of temperament typical of the breed, i.e., stable, friendly, trainable, and willing to work. Temperament is of utmost importance to the breed and must never be neglected or altered from the Standard.
Be of conformation typical of the breed.
Be in overall good health, and *be physically and mentally mature (which is generally not until two years of age)*. 
*Possess examination reports and certifications as outlined below* to evaluate and document status concerning recommended screening examinations; and these reports should be publicly available in an approved online database. Approved online databases include registries under management of veterinary professional associations; registries maintained by non-profit organizations with veterinary staff or advisory boards; and university-based registries under veterinary advisement. U.S. registries should be used for dogs residing in the U.S., unless previously evaluated (as in III below) prior to importation.
Hip and elbow certifications from the Ontario Veterinary College (OVC) prior to its discontinuation in 2012 are acceptable for dogs residing in the U.S., *providing the dog was 24 months of age or older at the time of the examination*. Reports should be recorded in an approved online database as described above. 
Submission of abnormal information to the OFA online database is encouraged.
II. The following reports are acceptable for dogs residing in the U.S.:

*Hips* – a report from the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals (OFA) or PennHIP *at 24 months of age or older*. Since PennHIP results are not automatically published, these results should be recorded in an approved online database as described above.
*Elbows* – a report from the OFA *at 24 months of age or older*.
*Hearts* – a report f*rom a Diplomat of the American College of Veterinary Internal Medicine (Cardiology)*, at 12 months of age or older. Report should be recorded in an approved online database as described above.
*Eyes* – a report *from a Diplomat of the American College of Veterinary Ophthalmology*. *Examinations should be done within 12 months prior to a breeding, and results should be recorded in an approved online database as described above.*
Dogs that produce offspring should continue to have *ophthalmology examinations on a yearly basis for their lifetime*, and if the findings permit recertification, the results should continue to be recorded in an approved online database. 
For frozen semen from deceased dogs, either an ophthalmology examination within 18 months of the date of death, or status that was in compliance with the Code of Ethics in effect at the time of the dog’s death, will be considered current.​
So, right there we see a number of examples where this breeder does not conform to the minimum standards of the GRCA Code of Ethics. Not every back yard breeder trying to do the right thing knows the Code of Ethics. Perhaps, should this breeder now become aware of it, she will stop breeding underage dogs and get at least the minimum clearances at the right time before breeding in the future. Better yet, maybe she will start proving the quality of her dogs in some manner.


----------



## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

SheetsSM said:


> With final clearances not able to be accomplished at 2 yrs of age, breeding a pup at 1 yr would not be in line with the GRCA. I think there have been a number of examples on this forum alone on why one shouldn't breed on prelims (which are not clearances). No one is questioning the ranch set up the issue IMO is breeding underaged dogs without clearances--no visit required when clearances are to be made available via an open database such as OFA. Also, w/ heart issues in the breed, a cardiologist cleared heart is what's recommended.


^^^^This. If you are breeding before two years of age, you are breeding before you have clearances. Pre-lims are NOT final clearances, and I have seen far too many cases of dogs bred on pre-lims who did not get their final clearances.

I cannot think of any good reason to consistently breed dogs or bitches under the age of two, before final clearances have been done.


----------



## Beaniebaby (Nov 30, 2014)

Gosh this is crazy?


----------



## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

Just a quick review revealed Charlie and Teddy siring multiple litters at barely over one year old. That's beneath the minimum recommendations of the GRCA CoE, and it didn't just happen once, it happened multiple times. That's indicative of someone who is not following good breeding practices, whether from ignorance or other motivations.

I'm wondering why in the world you'd bother to get prelims on a 22-month old bitch. Why not just get the final clearances at 24 mos.?

None of this isn't something that you can't change, easily, to come into minimum compliance. How about doing it right from now on, starting now?


----------



## Ilovepuppybreath (Dec 1, 2014)

If we x-ray a female at 22 months her hips are not going to go from OFA Excellent or OFA Good to OFA fair in 2 months. That has never happened. In 24 years of breeding none of my dogs have gone from OFA Excellent or OFA Good to OFA Fair, Borderline or hip dysplasia over a couple of months in fact NEVER at all. I just don't think your reasoning makes sense. The most important thing is that the dogs ARE x-rayed. A Preliminary x-ray isn't of less value then an X-ray at 24 months. An x-ray is an x-ray and a verdict from OFA is a verdict.


----------



## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

Le Chien D'Or Blanc Golden Retrievers / Ilovepuppybreath --how do you prove the quality/conformation of the dogs you're breeding? What sports are you & your dogs active in? From your website, you state "We introduced The "White Teddy Bears" in the AKC show rings in early 1990's and they became a huge success. " Which dogs did you show? Care to share your secret of producing cancer free dogs? As my girl is currently battling MCT would love to know how you were able to prevent cancer in the dogs you bred.


----------



## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

Ilovepuppybreath said:


> If we x-ray a female at 22 months her hips are not going to go from OFA Excellent or OFA Good to OFA fair in 2 months. That has never happened. In 24 years of breeding none of my dogs have gone from OFA Excellent or OFA Good to OFA Fair, Borderline or hip dysplasia over a couple of months in fact NEVER at all. I just don't think your reasoning makes sense. The most important thing is that the dogs ARE x-rayed. A Preliminary x-ray isn't of less value then an X-ray at 24 months. An x-ray is an x-ray and a verdict from OFA is a verdict.


My post above was in response to essentially this same post that you posted under the name of Beaniebaby before you edited it and reposted under this name. So, my point remains. You're not just breeding 1 bitch at 22 months on excellent prelims, you're breeding multiple underage dogs (like, a year under age), multiple times, which is indicative of someone who has a pattern of not following good breeding practices.

But it's all very easy to fix, and rather than argue a borderline example, you could simple vow that, starting today, you will never again breed any of your dogs until they are least 24 months old and have all the final clearances, including heart (by a cardiologist) and eyes (annually, and by an ophthalmologist). It's easy, you just have to want to do it right.

And it still doesn't make any sense to me that you would get prelims on a 22-month old bitch. Why would you do that? Why not wait two months and get final clearances, so you don't have to spend the money twice?

You're wrong, I'm afraid, that a prelim is just as good as a final clearance. If it was, it would be a clearance and not a prelim. A prelim _is_ of less value than a final clearance, especially if the prelim is obtained several months before the dog turns 2, in that it is not as reliable an indicator of the dog's mature status as a final clearance is.


----------



## Harleysmum (Aug 19, 2014)

I don't understand why you wouldn't just do what the GRCA Code of Ethics recommends which is XRay at 24 months. Why set yourself up for this sort of criticism.


----------



## Ilovepuppybreath (Dec 1, 2014)

I showed all my dogs at that time and I sent them to Canada and professional handlers in the USA. The ones in the USA charged me enormous amounts of money. I no longer show because I have Leukemia. I still know what a correct dog looks like conformation wise according to the ENGLISH standard. Breeders in Europe and US email me and ask me to help them pick out a sire for their bitches, so I must be doing something right. Also, our "customers" (I don't know why it's a bad thing to call them that, they do after all pay for the puppies) are extremely happy with their puppies. 24 years is a long time. If you think breeding dogs is a bad thing, why do you charge for your puppies? Why not give them away for free. This is so ridiculous!


----------



## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

I also saw that post that disappeared. 

There has recently been two breeders - can't remember if they were on this forum or another I belong to, that had GOOD prelims and did not pass the Finals. One was just about to be bred, upon the arrival of the Finals. The dog ended up being fixed.

There is even some talk now of dogs hips even changing between 24 and 30 months.


----------



## Ilovepuppybreath (Dec 1, 2014)

Does 2 months really make that big of a difference. If she goes into heat at 22 months why should I wait another 6 months? I can't control when she goes into heat now can I? If she is x-rayed and has Excellent or Good hips why do I have to follow the GRCA recommendations? Are they a government that says it's unlawful?


----------



## gold4me (Mar 12, 2006)

Check with Sunbeam Goldens (Sylmar, CA)


----------



## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

Ilovepuppybreath said:


> Does 2 months really make that big of a difference. If she goes into heat at 22 months why should I wait another 6 months? I can't control when she goes into heat now can I? If she is x-rayed and has Excellent or Good hips why do I have to follow the GRCA recommendations? Are they a government that says it's unlawful?


If she goes into heat at 22 months, there is no way you can get a preliminary clearance in time to breed her. Now I'm suspecting that you don't even do that. Perhaps you just get x-rays at 22 months, have your vet opine that they look good, and then breed your bitch. Because you simply cannot get a clearance in time to breed if your bitch is already in heat when you do the x-rays.

And you never addressed the multiple dogs that you have bred waaaaay before their second birthdays.

Also, if you put as much energy into doing it right as you are defending your unsatisfactory breeding practices, you'd be meeting the CoE guidelines.

I'm curious, since you keep making new claims: who are these US breeders who are asking you to choose sires for them, and if you're not involved in shows or sports, how do you go about choosing them?


----------



## Ilovepuppybreath (Dec 1, 2014)

No that is not true. What is with you people? Don't you know there is a California Puppy Lemon law? Why on earth would I breed and sell unhealthy dogs? It would be financial suicide!


----------



## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Ilovepuppybreath said:


> Does 2 months really make that big of a difference. If she goes into heat at 22 months why should I wait another 6 months? I can't control when she goes into heat now can I? If she is x-rayed and has Excellent or Good hips why do I have to follow the GRCA recommendations? Are they a government that says it's unlawful?


Yes, six months does make a big difference. They are still growing in that time. Just like they are now saying not to neuter our dogs until after two years old.

My puppy is twelve months old, she will be due for her second heat in the next couple months. She is still very much a puppy in her built and her maturity. She will hopefully be bred one day, depending on her clearances and how she does in the show ring, but it will definitely be after two years old. We might be doing the PennHip before two years old, BUT that is in addition to the OFA so we can get the full picture.


----------



## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

gold4me said:


> Check with Sunbeam Goldens (Sylmar, CA)


Cathie is an excellent and ethical breeder of quality Golden Retrievers, is extremely honest and candid, and produces fantastic puppies for her puppy buyers. In fact, I was petting one of her puppies today, at the dog show in Yuma, AZ, and he is a total sweetie pie.


----------



## Ilovepuppybreath (Dec 1, 2014)

Well my girls never go into heat before they are 15 months old. Like I have stated I do not breed unhealthy dogs because 1. It's not good for the buyer 2. It's not good for us because it would be financial suicide. I am not going to change what I am doing. I will continue to breed the way I have been doing for 24 years. I have healthy, beautiful dogs, with great temperaments and happy customers. You do what you want to do and I will do what I do. It has worked well for 24 years and it will continue to work. If things change I will adapt and change with it. I have weeded out health problems and the dogs I have now are proven healthy lines. Any defect is weeded out and the dog goes to a pet home for free. That has been our policy and it will be our policy. It's plain and simple that I was attacked here today for nothing at all by just "looking at my homepage". Yes it is geared towards customers and they like it. They do not find us unprofessional, one stated "It was harder to get approved to buy one of your puppies then to buy a house". I don't understand the mean spirited comments and this bashing you do with almost all the English breeders.


----------



## Harleysmum (Aug 19, 2014)

Ilovepuppybreath said:


> ... why do I have to follow the GRCA recommendations? Are they a government that says it's unlawful?


Well, if you are not interested in minimum standards ...


----------



## Ilovepuppybreath (Dec 1, 2014)

And one more thing. I have never spoken ill of another breeder in my entire life. I find this Forum very offensive and nasty.


----------



## lhowemt (Jun 28, 2013)

Even simple me, a pet owner, knows that ofa prelims (before 24 mos) are only assessed by ONE person at ofa. Full clearances are assessed by THREE people. That is quite a bit different. Prelims are not verification of breeding healthy dogs. Claiming to be an ethical breeder, without following the grca coe, is a false statement imo.


----------



## lhowemt (Jun 28, 2013)

Beaniebaby said:


> Gosh this is crazy?


No. This is what happens when someone claims something and knowledgeable people refute it.


----------



## Ilovepuppybreath (Dec 1, 2014)

I disagree!


----------



## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

Ilovepuppybreath said:


> Well my girls never go into heat before they are 15 months old. Like I have stated I do not breed unhealthy dogs because 1. It's not good for the buyer 2. It's not good for us because it would be financial suicide.


3. It's not good for the dogs. You kinda left that one out.


> I am not going to change what I am doing. I will continue to breed the way I have been doing for 24 years.


And that, folks, is why you should only buy from ethical breeders who keep up to date with science and changes in breeding practices, not those who make false claims and don't follow the code of ethics.



> It's plain and simple that I was attacked here today for nothing at all by just "looking at my homepage". Yes it is geared towards customers and they like it. They do not find us unprofessional, one stated "It was harder to get approved to buy one of your puppies then to buy a house". I don't understand the mean spirited comments and this bashing you do with almost all the English breeders.


1. I'd be much more impressed with proper clearances and evidence of good breeding practices than by a "customer" who says it was hard to get a puppy from you.

2. You seem to be playing the victim, here, rather than owning up to the fact that you simply do not follow the Golden Retriever Club of America Code of Ethics for breeders and are stubbornly insisting that you will never change. Lashing out isn't going to make you a good breeder, neither is sticking to practices a quarter of a century old, especially when it is so easy to adopt modern ethical standards. I can't think of a good reason why _not_ to wait until your bitch's third heat before breeding her.


----------



## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Breeding should be done for the betterment of the breed. An ethical breeder is always trying to improve upon the generation before and as was stated above, one bad breeding can ruin everything for that generation.

How can one prove they have bettered their lines, if the correct clearances are not done and showing is not done. I have often heard one of the best complements a breeder can have is when an off spring beats a parent in the ring.


----------



## Ilovepuppybreath (Dec 1, 2014)

In Europe they x-ray 1 time and that is at 12 months of age. I xray them 2 times! There is nothing I can say or do to stop you from attacking me. You WILL find fault even if there is NO fault because you already decided before checking the fact that I was an un-ethical breeder. You LOVE this quarreling and attacking people. I see it here all the time and it's the same people doing it. And I already told you that I cannot show because I have Leukemia or I would be in the show ring.


----------



## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

Ilovepuppybreath said:


> There is nothing I can say or do to stop you from attacking me.


Oh, but there is. And it's so easy.


----------



## Oaklys Dad (Dec 28, 2005)

I do not like closing threads but this one is teetering on the edge. Please keep you comments cordial


----------



## Ilovepuppybreath (Dec 1, 2014)

Please close this thread! Don't just sit an warn about it. They are clearly at my throat tearing me to pieces. There are people out there breeding without all clearances and you can find them on puppyfind.com and other sites. It is not ok to harass someone that is doing their job with health clearances. The damage is done to my name. Clearly like so many times before the moderators only warn but never shut down. I will attain an attorney it this continues. So close the thread!


----------



## Ilovepuppybreath (Dec 1, 2014)

Pedigree: Ridgeview's In Hot Pursuit Owner:	Dana Douglas & Theresa Scott, and M. Simpson


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Ilovepuppybreath said:


> In Europe they x-ray 1 time and that is at 12 months of age. I xray them 2 times! There is nothing I can say or do to stop you from attacking me. You WILL find fault even if there is NO fault because you already decided before checking the fact that I was an un-ethical breeder. You LOVE this quarreling and attacking people. I see it here all the time and it's the same people doing it. And I already told you that I cannot show because I have Leukemia or I would be in the show ring.


I don't care one iota if you ever show a dog.

What I do care about is that you as a breeder would want to do right by your dogs and the people who buy them. No GRCA is not the police, but they are the the group in our counrty that is the authority on what a Golden Retriever is and are dedicated to preserving, protecting and promoting this breed. They are the leaders in research on health and one of the main educators of the public on Goldens.

If you want to do right buy your dogs and your customers, follow the Code of Ethics and breed a better dog. IMHO you owe them better than you are currently doing.

I would also recomend that you do not refer to prelims as OFA Clearances, that statement is simply wrong and now that you know that, it would be unethical and purposely misleading to buyer to represent them that way.

If you do not want people in the US (who are going to apply the GRCA COE to you as it is our countries definition of good/reputable breeder) to find your program lacking, simply choose to follow the COE that exists solely to benefit the breed you are producing. If you choose not to, you will fail to be recognized as a good breeder and that is where you are at now, not a good breeder. 

I am sure that it hurts to hear and I am sorry for that. I truly do not find pleasure in having to tell puppy seakers the breeder they have found is not good. I would absolutely love to be able to say, "Yeah, that is a good breeder" to every thread like this. We do not have enough reputable breeders for all the buyers who are looking.

You could be a good breeder. Yeah, it takes more time and more money for testing. You may have to place some dogs that do not pass clearances. But, your buyers will appreciate your dedication and others could give you the paise you seem to want. It takes grace and courage to admit where you are and commit to do better but it can be done. Not every breeder started with the same knowledge. Take this as an opportunity to sart over, recreate yourself as a breeder that can be held to the highest standards and shine. You can do it if you want.


----------



## Ilovepuppybreath (Dec 1, 2014)

I HAVE THE TESTINGS! Will you stop! ALL MY DOGS OF BREEDING AGE HAVE OFA CLEARANCES! NOW STOP! Do you think I am that stupid to spend $24 000 for new males from World Champions from Europe this year I will skimp on testings because of the cost! You are insane! I only breed healthy, proven lines. I have weeded out for 24 years! Is anyone going to end this soon?


----------



## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Would it really hurt your breeding program if you did not breed your female at 22 months old, and waited another six or seventh months to breed with the OFA finals? 

You are heading in the right direction with the clearances, but not 100 percent yet. We are not here to bash but to educate. 

I was talking to a reputable breeder today. She says she gets 50 calls a week for her puppies. She spends hours every week educating these people calling her, obviously she cannot sell puppies to most of these people, she only has one or two litters a year - but her good reputation follows her. She said if we educate enough puppy buyers, they will demand that breeders follow the code of ethics and hopefully more breeders will follow the code. We owe it to the breed, we owe it to the unborn puppy, and we owe it to the puppy homes.


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Ilovepuppybreath said:


> PThere are people out there breeding without all clearances and you can find them on puppyfind.com and other sites. It is not ok to harass someone that is doing their job with health clearances.


Yes, there certainly are more bad breeders than reputable breeders as defined by the GRCA COE. This forum does not go out and actively seek breeders to review. New members who are searching for a puppy regularly come on here just as in this thread and ask the opinion of the forum members on a breeder/breeders they have found. It is generally a good thing for the buyer because most do not know how to find reputable breeders. 

The review of any breeder will begin with any information shared publically by the breeders website. Then the dogs in the program will be checked to see if they have clearances. When they don't it will be shared. This generally happens the same with every breeders. As I said before, I personally would love to say "yes, that is a good breeder". But more often that not there are serious issues or concerns. 

The purpose of the thread is to inform the buyer, not to bash the breeder. Though, I can see how it must hurt when your programs deficencies are discussed publically.

Again, I really hope you can turn this in to a positive by improving your breeding practices.


----------



## Ilovepuppybreath (Dec 1, 2014)

Love, there is nothing wrong with my dogs! They ARE TESTED! They do not have any health problems! They have OFA certificates! I do not breed on anything less then Good or Normal....period!


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Ilovepuppybreath said:


> I HAVE THE TESTINGS! Will you stop! ALL MY DOGS OF BREEDING AGE HAVE OFA CLEARANCES! NOW STOP! Do you think I am that stupid to spend $24 000 for new males from World Champions from Europe this year I will skimp on testings because of the cost! You are insane! I only breed healthy, proven lines. I have weeded out for 24 years! Is anyone going to end this soon?


I am not sure what you consider breeding age, but a 22 month old cannot have OFA clearances. Not a question of do not she cannot. She could have prelims which are not clearances. In fact the form clearly identifies itself as Preliminary (Consultation) Report. It also goes further to state, "The study must be repeated when the animal is 24 months of age or older to qualify for an OFA number". That OFA number, that is the clearance.

Also, in case you are unaware typing in all caps is the equivolent to yelling and I do not appreciate you implying that I am insane. I already know that.


----------



## Ilovepuppybreath (Dec 1, 2014)

Well you are not listening to me! I have said it and I will say it again. All my breeding dogs have health certificates from OFA stating either Excellent, Good or Normal


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Ilovepuppybreath said:


> Well you are not listening to me! I have said it and I will say it again. All my breeding dogs have health certificates from OFA stating either Excellent, Good or Normal


So, that means you are not breeding animals under 24 months?


----------



## Oaklys Dad (Dec 28, 2005)

This thread is going no where. I am closing it.


----------

