# Help me pick a new food, please!



## oakleysmommy (Feb 20, 2011)

I use Earthborn meadow feast they do very well on it! If you have a puppy the Primitive formula is too high in calcium. Meadow feast and coastal catch are the low percentage for puppy


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

I used to feed Acana before we had to switch to raw. If I could feed kibble again, that or Orijen would be my brand of choice. 


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## CharlieBear80 (Oct 13, 2013)

I'm not sure about comparable to Eukanuba as I've never fed my dogs that, but I've always liked Wellness and Orijen. I used Merrick at one point and my dog with a sensitive GI tract did not do so well on it. I also fed California Natural years ago but they sold the company and changed the formula and I think the quality went downhill after that. 

Looks like you've got a lot of great options.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Merrick and Innova/ California Natural have had recall issues. And some of the Earthborn varieties have super high ash content (like in the 12% range!) Of that grouping I would go with Fromm. We've always had really good results with that. You would probably need the grain free to get the 30/20 of the Euk Performance though. 

Have you looked at some good but moderately priced foods not listed? Dr Tim's is a really good food and 2 of their varieties are formulated for hard working dogs. Annamaet is a really good food also. Both of them are surprisingly transparent, easy to communicate with, and have never had recalls. Easy to order from chewy.com or petflow.com and the price point is great.


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## Millie'sMom (Sep 7, 2012)

I can also get food at wholesale from my training center. I order The Honest Kitchen and Ziwi Peak Venison (one girl has trouble with chicken). I add THK in a few times a week as a treat or if they have been really active. I use the Ziwi Peak as training treats or in their food if they need extra calories. I have kept them on ProPlan SSS, as their primary kibble.


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## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

We have had good success with Acana Wild Prairie. It is from Champion, the same company that makes Orijen. WP is fish and chicken based and grain free.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I would see if any of them are made by the plant that makes Diamond Foods before deciding, due to the quality control issues.


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## oakleysmommy (Feb 20, 2011)

Yes the Primitive has high ash. The rest are in the 5's normal


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

I agree with Barb. I know Fromm has their own plant and Annamaet and Dr Tims are made by Ohio Pet. The Honest Kitchen is made in a human food plant in CA.


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

Ah. I hate it when a wrench is thrown into your feeding plans. 

I fed Earthborn and was super pleased with it. I may add it back into rotation. I have also fed Merrick and Taste of the Wild but stopped the TOTW bc of Diamond. I currently feed Fromm LB Adult and the Four Star grain inclusive varieties. Our dogs love Stella & Chewy's & Ziwi Peak when they have had it. If you could get the last two at near wholesale, I would probably choose one of them. I would think the closest grain inclusive food ingredient wise to Eukanuba would be Fromm 4 Star or Gold Adult; however, the protein/fat aren't at 30/20. Maybe the Merrick grain inclusive line would be closer. I know their protein/fat was higher. What do you think? 

I feed one raw meal per day. I have used Bravo & Primal chubs that I portion. I guess it depends on if you feel comfortable feeding raw. My boys go crazy for it. Little piranhas cruising the kitchen waiting for their food. I feed about 8 oz of it with a premix, either Dr Harvey's or Grandma Lucy's. Coats are beautiful and maintaining weight nicely. 


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Until three months ago, my dogs have been on Wellness Core for over 5 years. I loved it and they did very well, but where I live the price has gone up from mid40's to after taxes about 68 a bag in the past two years. 

We just moved to Earthborn Coastal Catch three weeks ago, before that I tried Earthborn ( the other seafood one ), but Brady got his first hot spot. He needed to be on the grain free one. 

This week my daughter has asked multiple times when the last time my dogs were bathed because she says their fur feels softer than usual.

Earthborn does not spend money on the big time advertising campaigns, that is why it is so much cheaper, and the store that carries it has a 4 percent lower tax rate than the store that carried Wellness for me.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Why are you changing foods?

Meaning that if your dogs are doing very well on the foods they currently eat - I think that is worth the extra money you may spend right now purchasing foods elsewhere aside from the place you work at.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

I rotate between Fromm and NutriSource and have been very happy with both of them.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Megora said:


> Why are you changing foods?
> 
> Meaning that if your dogs are doing very well on the foods they currently eat - I think that is worth the extra money you may spend right now purchasing foods elsewhere aside from the place you work at.


That's why I haven't changed until now, but my dogs haven't had any food sensitivity at all, and it's a great list of brands I have available to me to explore that might be cheaper and more convenient for us to feed. Certainly, if we lose any of the benefits we've had with the Eukanuba, we'll go right back.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

We ran out of food, so I figured it was a good time to test drive something. The only crossover between the brands available to me for wholesale and what Petco had are Merrick, Nature's Variety, and Wellness. The guys weren't too psyched about the Wellness the last time we tried it, so we picked up a bag of the Nature's Variety Instinct Duck & Turkey.

It gets two thumbs up from the dogs in the taste test. We gave half portions, so we'll see how the second half goes and how it goes with them for the next couple of days.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

tippykayak said:


> That's why I haven't changed until now, but my dogs haven't had any food sensitivity at all, and it's a great list of brands I have available to me to explore that might be cheaper and more convenient for us to feed. Certainly, if we lose any of the benefits we've had with the Eukanuba, we'll go right back.


Well..... out of that list you provided in your first post, the two I've given Jacks in the past and liked were Merrick and Earthborn. 

I now feed Nutrisource (Adult) - which is not sold at every store and sometimes I have to special order to get the right bag size and formula. But worth it, considering I like the brand and the dogs do very well on it. 

And I also feed Pro Plan Performance to Bertie - which I can purchase from my favorite store in town, but I know isn't sold at the big box stores that most people go to. 

I'm not motivated by price and convenience when feeding my dogs. You have to be careful even with those dogs with cast iron stomachs. Jacks has a pretty tough gut, but there were a couple brands on your initial list that caused him issues when I fed him very minimal test amounts when checking out the food.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

I used to feed Orijen and loved it but the store I currently work at doesn't carry it. I was bummed at first, but decided to go with Nature's Variety Instinct Boost and I have to say that Chance is doing better on this food than Orijen, (Lucy can eat anything and thrive . I won't rotate brands anymore, just protein sources within Instinct. IMO, it's a _great_ food.


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## olliversmom (Mar 13, 2013)

Olliver was on canidae from breeder but began disliking taste. So trying the fromm large breed puppy now. He loves the taste. Good ingredients. Family company.


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## murphy1 (Jun 21, 2012)

If you can get Orijen you can get Acana. Murphy has done great on Acana Ranchland and Pacifica.....I just couldn't stand the smell of Pacifica (fish) during the warm summer months.


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## Ripley16 (Jan 26, 2012)

Orijen is what Ripley is on currently. She loves it!!


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Here's where I am right now. I want something that's in the 30/20 ballpark for protein/fat, because we have a hard enough time keeping weight on Comet in the first place, so I don't to lose any fat. I also think the boys' great coats are due in large part to having lots of fat in the diet, so I really don't want to go far below 20. That ruled out a lot of foods.

I also need something that Comet will eat with no drama. Jax would eat horse apples exclusively if given the chance (no, seriously), so I know he'll approve of pretty much anything, but Comet is picky, so I don't want to create any drama with him.

So here's the rundown of the available brands. Some are totally ruled out for being raw-only, and some for their GA numbers being too low.

Raw foods, no go:
Bravo: raw
Primal: all raw
Stella & Chewy’s: all raw
Steve's Real Food: all raw
Ziwi Peak: “air dried” raw, high GA numbers

Foods that don't have a blend at or above 30/20:
California Natural: Fat numbers too low
Fromm: no blends at or above 30/20
Grandma Mae’s: GA numbers too low
Holistic Select: GA numbers too low
The Honest kitchen: GA numbers aren’t quite high enough
Innova: GA numbers too low
Lotus: no blends with enough fat
Merrick: no blends with enough fat
Wellness: reg adult is too low in GA numbers, Core is 34/16

Potential candidates still in the running:
Earthborn: Primitive Natural is 38/20. Ingredients: chicken, potato, whitefish, 445 cal/cup
EVO: Turkey & Chicken 42/22 537 cal/cup
Nature's Variety: Instinct Chicken is 42/20, 460 cal/cup, Duck/Turkey is 35/20, 453 cal/cup
Orijen: Several foods are 38/18 478 cal/cup

The Nature's Variety Duck & Turkey got two paws up from both dogs in terms of flavor, so it's a strong early candidate.


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## KeaColorado (Jan 2, 2013)

I fed Earthborn coastal catch for years to my springer with allergies/feet chewing issues and then to my golden for a short time before we switched to raw. I was very happy with it, never a recall. We actually switched to Earthborn after Evo changed hands several years ago. 

There is a lot to like about the company that makes Earthborn. If you save the UPCs and send them back, they plant a tree


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## Cowtown (Sep 23, 2009)

tippykayak said:


> We've had great success with Eukanuba Premium Performance 30/20 for years, but I'm considering changing foods. The dog training center I work at operates a store, and we can get foods ordered through it, which means close to wholesale prices. The downside is that Eukanuba is not one of the brands we can get through the supplier. However, it looks like the brand list is pretty wonderful.
> 
> So, of these brands, do you guys have any top picks for brands or any blends that would be pretty comparable to the Eukanuba? I still want to do kibble, rather than prepack raw, but other than that, I'm pretty open to suggestions.
> 
> ...


I'd rotate between Earthborn (Coastal Catch and Meadow Feast are LBP appropriate), Nature's Variety Instinct (Rabbit and Limited Ingredient Turkey) and Wellness Core. Use a bag, rotate to the next bag. If using dry kibble you should really use a topper (not more than 20% of cal intake per meal) and I'd go with The Honest Kitchen, Earthborn canned, Wellness Core canned or Ziwipeak canned (it's expensive). These are grain free kibbles. Grain inclusive feeds to consider are Annamaet Ultra and Dr. Tims Kinesis or Pursuit). THK is a rehydrated type food but excellent. It's meant as a supplement/topper, not as a balanced meal so it's perfect as a dry kibble topper. Primal and S&C will be expensive. Also look up the canned product called Tripett by PetKind as a dry kibble topper.

Notice you tried the NV and got 2 paws up: NV Instict is an excellent food and probably my fav after Earthborn. NV Instinct has cans for a wet topper too.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Cowtown said:


> I'd rotate between Earthborn (Coastal Catch and Meadow Feast are LBP appropriate), *Nature's Variety Instinct (Rabbit *and Limited Ingredient Turkey) and Wellness Core.



Rabbit is the only protein I won't feed in my rotation with Nature's Variety. Unfortunately, NV's rabbit is sourced in China. I do trust that it's safe, however, I avoid it anyway. I also let my customer's know this fact. Here's what their website says about it:

"At Nature's Variety, our nutritional philosophy is to source the highest quality, safest, and most nutritious ingredients in the world. We look for our ingredients domestically first. In the case of rabbit meat, we've found that the best supply of high quality, human grade rabbit is found in China. Therefore, we are currently sourcing rabbit meat specifically for our raw and canned rabbit diets from a trusted supplier in China. To help ensure that our strict quality and safety standards are rigorously enforced, this rabbit meat is regularly inspected and monitored by the PhD food scientist we have on staff. Additionally, members of the Nature’s Variety leadership team have personally visited and inspected the facility in China. We also employ extra testing (at an independent lab in the United States) to ensure that the rabbit is nothing short of our strictest standards for quality and nutrition."


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Cowtown said:


> If using dry kibble you should really use a topper (not more than 20% of cal intake per meal) and I'd go with The Honest Kitchen, Earthborn canned, Wellness Core canned or Ziwipeak canned (it's expensive).


I know the philosophy behind rotating, but what's the philosophy behind using a topper? Given that I have a picky dog (Comet) who tends to leave things in the bowl if he gets full and a vacuum dog (Jax) who will finish off anything left in the bowl, I'd prefer to be able to save Comet's leftovers for his next meal, which is my main reason for avoiding wet/raw products.


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## Ripley16 (Jan 26, 2012)

Maybe giving Comet his portion in a separate bowl is a viable option so you can preserve his extra food? We use canned pumpkin as a topper. Sometime natural balance canned


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Ripley16 said:


> Maybe giving Comet his portion in a separate bowl is a viable option so you can preserve his extra food? We use canned pumpkin as a topper. Sometime natural balance canned


We do. Both dogs eat in separate rooms at the same time, and then I pick up Comet's bowl after about 15 minutes and let Jax back out. Since Comet's leftovers are dry, they can be left in the bowl or whatever until his next meal. But if they were wet at all, it would seem to add some annoying logistical steps (like removing the excess into a different bowl and refrigerating it and then washing the first, or rotating two dog bowls through, etc.).


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

I feed mercy Wellness Core Ocean.


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## Cowtown (Sep 23, 2009)

kwhit said:


> Rabbit is the only protein I won't feed in my rotation with Nature's Variety. Unfortunately, NV's rabbit is sourced in China. I do trust that it's safe, however, I avoid it anyway. I also let my customer's know this fact. Here's what their website says about it:
> 
> "At Nature's Variety, our nutritional philosophy is to source the highest quality, safest, and most nutritious ingredients in the world. We look for our ingredients domestically first. In the case of rabbit meat, we've found that the best supply of high quality, human grade rabbit is found in China. Therefore, we are currently sourcing rabbit meat specifically for our raw and canned rabbit diets from a trusted supplier in China. To help ensure that our strict quality and safety standards are rigorously enforced, this rabbit meat is regularly inspected and monitored by the PhD food scientist we have on staff. Additionally, members of the Nature’s Variety leadership team have personally visited and inspected the facility in China. We also employ extra testing (at an independent lab in the United States) to ensure that the rabbit is nothing short of our strictest standards for quality and nutrition."


Exactly....as you stated it comes down to whether or not you trust NV.


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## murphy1 (Jun 21, 2012)

I don't want ANYTHING from China,,,,I don't trust what they send to the USA.


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## Cowtown (Sep 23, 2009)

tippykayak said:


> I know the philosophy behind rotating, but what's the philosophy behind using a topper? Given that I have a picky dog (Comet) who tends to leave things in the bowl if he gets full and a vacuum dog (Jax) who will finish off anything left in the bowl, I'd prefer to be able to save Comet's leftovers for his next meal, which is my main reason for avoiding wet/raw products.


For that exact reason! Would you like to eat Eukanuba dry kibble every day year in and year out? NO! Dogs, like us, like variety! Toppers are savory. They add moisture and additional protein to the kibble. You can top with wet canned or natural things like eggs, yogurt, tinned sardines/salmon, yogurt, etc. Tripe is very healthy for a dog and they love it. Tippy, go buy 1 can of the regular Tripett original and top his normal kibble with it and I bet ole Comet gobbles his entire meal down. You can mix the topper with a little water and pour it over the dry kibble like a gravy.

Raw meaty bones are also a great source of protein and the dogs love em.


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## Cowtown (Sep 23, 2009)

Ripley16 said:


> Maybe giving Comet his portion in a separate bowl is a viable option so you can preserve his extra food? We use canned pumpkin as a topper. Sometime natural balance canned


Pumpkin is great if their stools are runny...its all fiber. If stools are good, I'd rotate and/or find a new topper!


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Cowtown said:


> For that exact reason! Would you like to eat Eukanuba dry kibble every day year in and year out? NO! Dogs, like us, like variety! Toppers are savory. They add moisture and additional protein to the kibble. You can top with wet canned or natural things like eggs, yogurt, tinned sardines/salmon, yogurt, etc. Tripe is very healthy for a dog and they love it. Tippy, go buy 1 can of the regular Tripett original and top his normal kibble with it and I bet ole Comet gobbles his entire meal down. You can mix the topper with a little water and pour it over the dry kibble like a gravy.
> 
> Raw meaty bones are also a great source of protein and the dogs love em.


I'm sure Comet would suck down any tripe-based product pretty easily, but I'm not sure his pickiness can be remedied by toppers in general. In fact, the more changes and drama surround the bowl, the more likely he is to be picky about it. I tried to get my last non-foodie to eat that way, and I just ended up throwing out a lot of kibble once it was wet with a topper or gravy and still was left behind.

The thing that gets Comet to eat is limited access. If he leaves some in the bowl and then doesn't get it back again for 8 hours, he'll come back with more gusto. My experience has been that changing foods just makes picky dogs pickier.

But thanks for the suggestions!


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

oakleysmommy said:


> Yes the Primitive has high ash. The rest are in the 5's normal


In talking with Cindy Montgomery of Midwestern Pet Foods (Earthborn's company), she quoted the following ash contents:

Primitive Natural 12%
Great Plains 9.8%
Coastal Catch 7.5%
Meadow Feast 9.1%
Weight Control 7%

It would be hard to find a grain free food with ash in the 5's. Personally I like to keep our food in the 6-8% range. Too high ash content shows an inferior meat source with lots of bone. And it can be damaging in the long run.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

My dogs have been doing beautifully on Fromm for a long while now. I make too much of a mess with Honest Kitchen- I ended up with the Messy Kitchen. I really want half of them to eat Orijen, bc it seems like such a stellar food, but it just doesnt agree with their stomachs. They can eat absolutely anything else. I sometimes will switch an actively showing dog to Pro Plan Sport 30/20 with Nature's Farmacy Dog Zymes/Gro Coat, but in general I like Fromm alot.


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## dogloverforlife (Feb 17, 2013)

Fromm. I feed two of my dogs Fromm. 

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## GoldenAce (Jun 28, 2013)

My pup is 6 1/2 months and is on Merricks. I think it is a really good high quality food and my boy seems to love it! 

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## GoldenAce (Jun 28, 2013)

And Merricks is American made! Not no made in china crap!

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## CharlieBear80 (Oct 13, 2013)

For those feeding Fromm, do you feed grain-free variety? I'm interested in using it for my new pup but am curious since there appear to be (?) three different levels of food.


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## Wagners Mom2 (Mar 20, 2012)

CharlieBear80 said:


> For those feeding Fromm, do you feed grain-free variety? I'm interested in using it for my new pup but am curious since there appear to be (?) three different levels of food.


For a pup I would use the puppy gold in the pink bag.


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## Mayve (Aug 21, 2012)

I use fromm too and no I don't feed the grain free but would if my furbutts had issues with grains. We.go back and forth between flavors...pork and applesauce, chicken a la veg...currently they are eating whitefish and potato. They are doing great on it!

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## puddinhd58 (Jan 15, 2009)

We have fed our pups Fromm's for many years and they do very well on it. It's a family owned company (which I like), they've never had any recall issues, and they have quite a variety of flavors that you can switch back and forth from. My pups love the duck and sweet potato. 


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## Medster (May 19, 2013)

We love the LB Puppy from Fromm also, for our 6 month old GR. His growth rate has been perfect and he loves it.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Does Fromm have any foods where the fat is 20% or higher? The company seems great and lots of people report success on their food, but keeping weight on Comet is a main priority, so I'm hesitant to switch to anything lower than the current fat numbers.


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## Mayve (Aug 21, 2012)

Tippy

I'm not sure. I just bought a bag of whitefish and potato and its only 11percent. I do know some of the other flavors are higher but not sure on exact amounts. I believe that info is on their website...but can't say for sure.

Edit....I just went and peeked at their website and didn't see one over 15.... 

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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Mayve said:


> Tippy
> 
> I'm not sure. I just bought a bag of whitefish and potato and its only 11percent. I do know some of the other flavors are higher but not sure on exact amounts. I believe that info is on their website...but can't say for sure.


Yeah - I looked at the websites for all the brands I listed and ruled a bunch in or out (it's in an earlier post), and none the Fromm blends are at or above 20%, so far as I could tell. I was hoping I had missed one and a forum member knew about it so I could rule Fromm back in as a possibility.


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## CharlieBear80 (Oct 13, 2013)

I didn't see any that were at or above 20% fat either.


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## Melfice (Aug 4, 2012)

CharlieBear80 said:


> For those feeding Fromm, do you feed grain-free variety? I'm interested in using it for my new pup but am curious since there appear to be (?) three different levels of food.


I just started a bag of Fromm: Pork & Peas Grain Free, and my pups love it so far. They really went crazy when I opened the bag up haha.

It's too soon to tell, but so far no issues with this flavor of Fromm Grain Free kibble. I like the company a lot, and my pups grew up on Fromm puppy food too


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Medster said:


> We love the LB Puppy from Fromm also, for our 6 month old GR. His growth rate has been perfect and he loves it.


 

Medster, your puppy is mega adorable! Oh my!!!!


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## msdogs1976 (Dec 21, 2007)

How about Eukanuba's sister company? Iams Sporting 29/18 is pretty close and you can buy it here, delivered to your frontdoor. 

Amazon.com: Iams Sporting 29/18, 35-pounds: Pet Supplies


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## swhome247 (Oct 22, 2013)

Med star your puppy is beautiful!! 

We use From
Duck and sweet potatoes. I just bought pork & applesauce to try. My one is only 4 months this week and now questioning whether I should change him to Fromm puppy in the pink bag. :-/. Hmmm...,


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Hey - I thought I'd update this, because we ended up going in a different direction (back to what works).

We fed Nature's Variety, first the Duck and Turkey and then the chicken blend, for a couple of months. The dogs certainly did fine, but Comet actually lost a little weight, and part of my hope was that a food with high GA numbers would help put more on him. We also got incredibly bad ear infections in both dogs. Jax does get them occasionally, but it's usually during swimming season in the summer, and Comet hasn't had one in literally 5 years. Comet's was so bad that he needed prednisone, and Jax's was so bad that even though it wasn't painful, it took two weeks of medicine to cure one of his ears, and the other was still producing yeasty junk even after two weeks of treatment, so the vet packed his ear with a special ointment.

I don't know that the ear issues were related to the food, but it certainly wasn't helping.

Also, both dogs had diarrhea for a few days about a month after we switched. Again, not necessarily the fault of the food, but not an encouraging sign either.

Plus, Nature's Variety was dramatically more expensive than what we were feeding before (Eukanuba Premium Performance 30/20).

So we're back on the Eukanuba and probably will be indefinitely. Experiment over. It's not worth playing around with food anymore to try to find something I can order through the dog training center, employee discount be darned.

Thanks for your help and input!


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## Bentman2 (Sep 30, 2013)

*Fromm and NutriSource*



Tahnee GR said:


> I rotate between Fromm and NutriSource and have been very happy with both of them.


I am trying to find a replacement for Ekunuba Large Breed Puppy chow as Bentley has started to pull back from it. Several have mentioned Kibble and I don't know what than is but want your suggestion for a 7.5 month old boy. He is 90 lbs now so I want something that he will like without any added fat. He is just a large meaty and muscular boy. Help.


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