# No idea what I'm doing. Don't understand "pedigreese". Will this litter be any good?



## CharlieBear80 (Oct 13, 2013)

Dad looks nice. I don't see any eye clearances on mom and I don't recognize any of the dogs in the 3 generation pedigree, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything (and I didn't bother to look at the 5 generation pedigree to be honest).


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## rob1 (Sep 21, 2009)

Ditto CharlieBear80. I like the Dad. The mom looks like they just keep breeding dogs they own and keep one. They aren't really doing anything with them as far as I can see. (I see they own the sire too- but his lines have done a lot more.)

You could do better. If she has her eye clearances and is dirt cheap, then I wouldn't actually object for a pet puppy. I wouldn't get a dog from that litter myself, but I wouldn't think you were a moron or a horrible person for doing so. But if you're paying a reasonable price, you should be able to find better.


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## Flix (Apr 1, 2014)

rob1 said:


> The mom looks like they just keep breeding dogs they own and keep one.


Ha! Great observation! The breeder actually mentioned in an email that she might keep back a female puppy.



> If she has her eye clearances and is dirt cheap, then I wouldn't actually object for a pet puppy.


The price is $1,000 but I really wouldn't mind paying up to $2,000 for a puppy.



> You could do better [...] I wouldn't get a dog from that litter myself [...] you should be able to find better.


I was looking at the AKC puppy finder but it's very hard to even get in touch with breeders. Is there a better place to look?


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Post on here where you are and how far you are willing to go to get a pup. Let us know if you are looking for a pet, hunting partner, show puppy, obedience competitor, agility dog, etc. We can make suggestions of various breeders that are breeding for the type of dog you are looking for. Just a note though, litters vary in types. Meaning a show breeder usually only has 3 prospective pups from a litter that are show quality, the rest are considered pet quality. So don't get hung up about the breeder being a show breeder, it doesn't mean their pups can't be pets.


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## TheZ's (Jun 13, 2011)

I agree with the comments above. Would just add that JJ's sire James was a very prominent show dog who predeceased JJ's birth by what looks like about 12 years. This is apparently quite common with sires who have been very prominent but something I would want to be aware of.


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

Using frozen semen from a stud dog that has passed is very normal and to my knowledge there is nothing wrong with that.

As to the dogs, yes, seems the owner has both dogs and this is a repeat breeding. To me, this alone is not a deal breaker and about the CERF for mom, that is something to ask the breeder personally. Some breeders do not send in all clearances. 

The one concern I have is that the dam's full sibling listed under OFA does not have an elbow clearance but heart clearance, makes me think she did not pass her elbow clearance. She also has something listed under eye clearance that is a breeder option but all Greek to me. So, I don't know the significance of this. 
There are is one half sibling of the dam with degenerative joint disease. I know hip and elbow dysplasia can show up even in offspring from cleared parents, but it is something to be aware of. Another half sibling has something listed under heart clearance. Hopefully some breeders will see this and chime in of this has any impact on puppies of this coming litter. 

I am a bit surprised that they did not show the dad since he comes from a good line. With mom, I am not as picky about whether the dam has been titled.

You could do better but you could do a lot worse.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

My Gabby shares Hunter as a grandsire. I have friends who are very knowledgeable who think the world of him.


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

Serious old school stuff on the sire's side. The sire's side is line bred on Aruba. This litter's grandsire, James (a legendary dog), has Aruba three times in two generations of his pedigree. And the dam's line has an Aruba dominant influence, too. So if you like what you get from the Aruba influence (and a gazillion people did), you have a good chance to like a puppy from this litter. The maternal grandsire is also a nice dog. So the lack of championships on the dam's side doesn't really bother me, and the dam looks like a decent dog despite not being proven. The longevity pedigrees also look pretty average, and I don't see any big red flags there.

Just personally, the missing elbow on the dam's full sibling doesn't bother me. The dam cleared, and elbow clearances can be finicky things. One half-sibling with SAS is more of a concern (and we don't know if there were others from that litter with SAS), but since it appears to only show up in one out of 8 litters of half-siblings, I'm not terrifically troubled by that, either. 

So, if the clearances are all there (I notice eye clearances missing), I think a puppy from this litter would probably make a good pet puppy. Definitely worth $1,000 in my very humble and limited opinion.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Missing eye clearance would be my biggest concern and dad's is past due (only good for one year).
As for sire not being shown, just because he had an OUTSTANDING dad does not mean he is of show quality. So no alarm there for me.
As for the dam's side. Yeah I would like to see something that indicated they were being "proven" I will say by the photo posted (and I can only ASSUME it is her) she appears to be quite nice. Hard to judge quality through a picture but ......

If the eye clearance is there and just a "breeder's option" issue I would also say go for it.


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## Flix (Apr 1, 2014)

Alaska7133 said:


> Post on here where you are and how far you are willing to go to get a pup. Let us know if you are looking for a pet, hunting partner, show puppy, obedience competitor, agility dog, etc. We can make suggestions of various breeders that are breeding for the type of dog you are looking for. Just a note though, litters vary in types. Meaning a show breeder usually only has 3 prospective pups from a litter that are show quality, the rest are considered pet quality. So don't get hung up about the breeder being a show breeder, it doesn't mean their pups can't be pets.


We're in Chicago but are willing to drive a day (each way) and are looking primarily for a pet. I plan on doing obedience training with him, although not necessarily to compete.

Again, health is the primary concern, but a majestic look is always welcome!

Thanks, everyone!


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

I would definitely look into this litter. Asterling is very prominent in the backgrounds of some of the big lines in New England. I also think 1000 is very reasonable, even bordering on being cheap.

As for clearances, ask for them. I have copies of all the clearances for the parents of both my dogs, both from very long time reputable breeders, but if you looked them up on k9data or ofa, it would look spotty.

Edit: I just looked and saw this was not actually Asterling that was the breeder, but one of their dogs from one of their litters. I would definitely ask a lot if questions.


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## rob1 (Sep 21, 2009)

Wow- I used the google search box and searched on 'Chicago Breeder' - no quotes- there are some nice kennels around you!

If you're kinda sort of thinking about obedience? I might look around at some of those kennels that are putting out dogs that compete in lots of venues. I never played dog sports before, but I am with Lucky and it's a blast. If there's even a chance you might get competitive with it, get a dog that's got a bit of a track record behind it when it comes to drive.

There were some nice kennels suggested in this thread: http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...-breeder-puppy/74727-chicago-il-breeders.html

I've heard of Dichi and Argo and Doolin and wow- Tanbark. That's probably more dog than you want. But a lot of those have very pretty dogs that are going to people who are putting obedience and rally and agility titles on them. 

Look at Dichi's upcoming litter page and the list of what pups they've produced are doing. If you're thinking obedience why not stack the odds in your favor?

That's not to say Sha-Dy Acres is a bad way to go if you're looking for a pet (and all the clearances check out)- but it looks like there are some really accomplished breeders out your way.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Try and get to the bottom of the eye clearance issue before even thinking about the litter. I really like grampa Hunter, and I do think he has an eye clearance that is current right now. I think this would be a fine litter for 1,000 pet puppy BUT not if mom is missing her eye clearance.


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## Flix (Apr 1, 2014)

Thanks everyone for your help so far! I wasn't able to get in touch with any of the breeders recommended in my area, but I came across Dal-Rhe in the meantime, and they do have some puppies available. What about these three litters from Dal-Rhe Golden Retrievers:

First, what do you think about "Scout", a 4-½ month old boy born 11/16/2013 to Taylor & Brodie - Pedigree: Tailor x Brodie. Is there any disadvantage to getting such an "old" puppy?
Here are some photos of him: SCOUT - Imgur


Then there's the Jade x Gabe Litter (ready 4/19): Pedigree: Jade x Gabe
Or
Bella x Edward Litter (ready now): Pedigree: Bella x Edward


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

That sibling has minor retinal dysplasia in the form of folds in the retina. In GRs it is either thought not to be heritable and/or not to be connected to serious forms of retinal dysplasia, which is why it's a breeder's option. That would definitely not be a dealbreaker for me, particularly since it's not the parent. However, I would ABSOLUTELY have to see the CERF on the breeding bitch to make sure she passed recently and didn't also have retinal dysplasia. The bitch does not have a posted CERF, so I would be religious about seeing it before committing.


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## SunshineValley (Apr 3, 2014)

Does anyone have breeder recommendations for Oregon, Washington, or Northern CA? 

I am looking for a puppy for my 11 year old. He's looking for a best friend so he needs a companion he can snuggle with and be with all day long in doors and/or running around on our several acres. 

I looked at AKC puppy finder and am considering Patrica Mengarelli. Her profile sheet is here: https://www.akc.org/classified/sear...fied=1205785&breeder_name=Patricia Mengarelli 

Any initial thoughts on her? She sells her puppies for $600. I have never bought from a breeder, or bought a golden before. Thanks!!


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

She says right on her profile that applicable health checks have not been done. I would say a big No to that one.

If you click, you can get through to the page with the parents names and if you wanted to double check clearances, you could check the parents on offa.org to see if they have any clearances-hips, elbows, eyes and heart.


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