# Help..Adopted dog attacking my golden!



## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

Do you have someone with you? I would leash them both up, give one leash to your helper and then go on a loooong walk with both dogs. Keep them separate from one another so no one can threaten or reach the other, but still walk as close as possible without them able to reach one another. You need to establish some "pack mentality" ASAP on neutral ground. Walk them until they're a little more relaxed, then see if you get closer and let some butt-sniffing - NOT face-to-face sniffing - occur. Then keep walking. Allow a few butt sniffs, asha to jack, jack to asha, but keep walking at a quick pace so they can't get distracted by the butt sniffing or wheel around to check out who's sniffing their butt.

Honestly, an hour walk at least. Get them tired, get them relaxed around one another, and let them do butt-sniff intros. Get home, keep one or both on leash (probably Asha) and pick up ALL toys, bones, beds, etc. so no one is feeling like they need to share or be protective of anything.

But definitely get them out for a walk ASAP. Keeping them separate right now isn't going to help matters...you need to try to fix the root of the problem. And don't lose hope. Remember Asha is uncertain about where she is in life and is going through a lot. When I brought my little foster buddy home, ranger and him met on leashes across the street. Ranger was fine, but Scout growled and snapped at him. We took them for a long walk and Scout was able to check out Ranger and it helped get Ranger's attention off Scout which also helped relax Scout. Sometimes goldens are a little too friendly and dogs (especially dogs suffering through a major upheaval) don't want too much attention right away.


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## saus (May 7, 2011)

I strongly second Ranger's advice. They should be side by side rather than face to face, and busy walking. Some contact should be allowed after walking for awhile. It could be a serious issue, but it could also be the new dog already unsure of herself because she's in a new situation, and trying to assert dominance, before someone dominates her.


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## saus (May 7, 2011)

And remember, they feed off of your energy. Try not to relay the stress and concern you are feeling. You are the leader, you decide who belongs, and you decide it's time for a walk, so no nonsense, let's go.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Another hint I picked up from a trainer is to have them walk side by side, but then have one walking behind the other. Let the one in back get a butt sniff in and then change places. It gives them a chance to "meet" each other safely.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Good advice*

CrazyGolden

This sounds like really good advice.

Keep a tight hold on them while walking-is Asha used to be walked on a leash?
Just so she doesn't run away!


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*CrazyGolden*

CrazyGolden

Hoping you and Hubby took Jack and Asha for a walk, per instructions of the very wise people who posted above!!


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## lyssa (Mar 1, 2011)

Agree with what people have posted above. Just another point to consider, it is unnatural for two dogs to be forced to meet face to face. It is considered rather rude, pushy and aggressive in the doggy world... like staring each other down, and just leading them up to each other like that is enough to start something off if they don't know each other and they are on ground that is already 'owned'. The polite dog meeting is preceeded by a long curving leadup to the side of the other dog, not looking into each others face until afterwards. In your case, immediately start their walk as soon as you are close, don't allow sniffing until later.

This polite curving approach is a really important thing to know if you want to approach someone with a dog in a non challenging way for both your dogs.

The other important thing is to not interact on claimed territory until they have met. Introducing them through a gate was a pretty bad start, but it should be correctable.


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## Kelmel (Apr 7, 2009)

I don't have any better advise then what you have already received. I just wanted to say good luck and let you know the dog you have today will not necessarily be the same dog in a few months. We found that to be the case with our adopted dog Jack. We had a few growls when we brought him home with our Morgan. They did meet for the first time in a neutral place at his foster mom's yard. When we got home late that night he immediately tried to dig out of our backyard fence and I thought oh what did we do. He still has to watched but he has turned into a great dog. I didn't really understand when others said this would be the case, but with all they have been through they have to adjust. Good luck!!


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## HovawartMom (Aug 10, 2006)

Maybe yr boy is too forward,excited.
I would try to tire them,both,out(separatly) before walking them,next to eachother.
It would allow them,both,to relax and on walks,their minds wuld be on the next smell,instead of eachother.
Give them,time to relax before bring her,back to the shelter.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*CrazyGolden*

CrazyGOlden

Hope you all were able to go for a long walk and that things are better now.
Don't forget that poor ASHA made a cross country trip in a crate, too.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*CrazyGolden*

CrazyGolden

Hoping things are better now with Asha and Jack. Just takes time.


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## CrazyGolden (Nov 27, 2010)

Thank you everyone for the advice. I am sorry I took so long to get back to you all. It has been busy over here!

Unfortunately, my Husband had been called into work yesterday and we were unable to go for that long walk since I did not have a helper. I did speak with the foster Mom though and she said she had NEVER seen an aggressive side to Asha with anyone of the dogs she was with at her house. And she was with many. The foster Mom said she played with dogs both shorter and taller than her and many goldens because the foster's own dogs are goldens. She never had a problem. She told me that she was sure Asha would not actually really hurt Jack and that they needed to just do it. She advised me to keep them both on a leash but to not hold the leash. Just to have it there so if it got too ugly, I could grab one leash an my husband could grab the other. We gave it a shot... They did fight and when it broke up, they finally made attempts at proper greeting (butt sniffing). Prior to this, Jack had no opportunity to even try and Asha was making no attempt because it was just stare down and attack. 

After the fight, they spent about 10 minutes just co-exsisting but there was tension. I stayed in the room and just kind of let them be. I was standing in a doorway, idly watching TV so they didn't feel I was watching them and waiting for something. Jack was clearly stressed and keeping himself off the the side or under the dining room table. Finally, Jack came out...I believe in an attempt to try to get close to me and another fight broke out. It broke up rather quickly (though seems like forever to me watching) like the first time and since then there have been no big blow ups but LOTS of tension. After that second fight, Jack confined himself to a chair and Asha would keep going around the chair (wagging her tail as she always is... except when she is giving Jack the stare down and thinking of attacking). As long as Jack would freeze up, not move, and turn his head away when she showed interest, she'd go up and sniff him. She even licked his ear and paw one time before walking away. I also noticed it seemed like she was trying to control him. When he did finally want to get off the chair, she noticed him trying to move and would walk to whatever side of the chair he was looking to get off of and stand there like she wasn't letting him down. Of course, Jack would cower back into the chair. But it was like she was watching his every move and was controlling what he was allowed to do. I also noticed she seemed to stick around me a lot and didn't seem to want to let Jack near me. And she comes right over and gives him "the look" if he is getting attention so I am always afraid to even pet him because I don't want her to go after him or accidently get me in the process either! I did try to pet both him and her at the same time, assuring them both that they were good boys and girls to try to get her to see that just because he is getting loving doesn't mean she can't. I have been told it may be a competition thing and she doesn't want to share me because she is making a bond and Jack is coming off as a threat to that. I am not sure if this was the right thing to do but I couldn't think of any other way to show her that it is okay for him to be around and near me. She would look over at him when she'd first walk up with a look but then pretty much just stare up at me and ignore him as I pet them both.

Asha is absolutely trying to dominate him and he is so submissive and uncomfortable right now. As of this morning, they are going about their business and co-exsisting. No MAJOR blow ups and while they have walked near each other (again, her tail is wagging even when around him just not when she goes to stare down mode) there is still tension and she still now and then will just stop, stiffen up, stop wagging her tail and just stare at him like she is ready attack him again. Also, today she has started going up to him and just putting her paw on his back which I know is a dominance thing. The first time she did it he just stood there and did nothing. The second time though she started with one paw and then put both paws up and he then growled at her and kind of put her in her place. She growled back but got down and there was no fight. I think he really needs to assert this more but he won't. He is just too submissive. She made him pee this morning (he has a tendency to submissive pee anyway).

We are going to bring them for a walk this afternoon when my Husband gets home. It will be a little tough because of my 18 month old but I'm hoping that it'll go alright even still. He usually walks with us but that won't work with the dogs in case they fight so we'll have to bring his stroll which I hope doesn't add to the obsticles or tension with the dogs. At times, it seems like they are just co-exsisting fine. They walk around in close proximity like there is no problem. Then she'll snap. Everything is eggshells.

The triggers seem to be...

Attention from me (She seems to try to keep him from coming near me sometimes. Although, I haven't noticed that so much today. Mostly, last night. Then again, I am not just standing in the room with them for 2 hours like last night either.)
Toys (She brought me a ball this morning and when she walked away and Jack showed an interest, she tried to dominate him.)
And then sometimes when she notices Jack trying to move from one place to another or at random times when he is just near by. Like she is trying to control his moves.

I really hope we can all make this work. Her other little things are fairly workable. She needs to learn some commands but she is already doing really well with "down". She is also doing really well with "give" (although she does try to walk away with it first). She doesn't seem to require a heavy hand when being told what to do or reprimanded. Although, she isn't listening to my Husband very well. Just me. Otherwise, we are having some bathroom issues because she seems to be not liking to go on the leash. She has done it, but it takes forever and she sometimes just won't but then does in the house. She spent much of her time in a crate and had no issues but in the house it isn't carrying over. I hope we can nip this quick. And barking. I was told she wasn't a barker which was great because we can't have TOO much barking where we live since it is on a golf course but she seems to have quite the voice sometimes! I tried openning the blinds today and she saw people and instantly started barking. She tends to do that when I bring her out to potty too which is making it a little difficult because there are a decent amount of people here now that the weather broke. Any suggestions for this? My Jack isn't a barker so I haven't had to tackle this problem and I was wondering if anyone has had anything work well for them if they had a barker. And of course, any other suggestions as to the aggression thing is first and foremost! 

Thank you all again. I hope she can make it work with Jack. I just can't ever see them playing together or laying together peacefully. It makes me so sad. And seeing Jack so upset and stressed is killing me.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*CrazyGolden*

CrazyGolden

sounds like the foster gave you and others on here gave you some very good advice. Dogs can take time getting adjusted to one another.
In every dog pack, there is going to be one submissive and one dominant.
You said Jack was more submissive to start, so that doesn't mean he will be unhappy if he is the submissive one in the pack.

I think the long walk with them sniffing butts would help! 

When you say they were sniffing and then attacked, what exactly do you mean by attacked? Was there any blood drawn?

I think Asha is obviously craving your attention, especially if she was crated all the time-the poor Foster probably was not able to spend any time playing with her or any of the other dogs.

Sounds like you are doing much better!


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## CrazyGolden (Nov 27, 2010)

No, thank god there was no blood drawn. No one has actually been hurt but when I say attack I just mean she lunges and they are fighting. No injuries though. And that has only really happened twice. Now when she starts to try that, I give her a frim "Asha, NO." And will clap my hands if it seems like she needs more of a startle and she will stop and look to me. Usually then if she turns back to him she won't start anything and will just end up walking away. She listens to me fairly well considering she doesn't really know any commands or anything. She seems to have respect for what I tell her. 

I also want to note, she is doing great with my kitten right from the start. She LOVES to try to play with the kitten and last night while she was eatting the kitten tried getting in her dish and I was ready to jump in if she got aggressive since I wasn't sure what to expect after seeing her with Jack and she didn't even care. No food aggression with the cat right there at all. I won't risk having Jack near by when she eats though. She just has an issue with him.


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## Sophie_Mom (Jan 21, 2009)

I'm so sorry, I can hear the frustration and hurt in your posts. Hang in there, I think it definitely takes time for dogs to get used to each other.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*CrazyGolden*

CrazyGolden

Things are certainly improving-just takes a little time.
I've had a male and female dog twice now. The females were adopted and in both cases, the females were the dominant dogs-maybe because both of them had been strays and had to learn to fend for themselves, where as the males were pretty much pampered!!

What you describe as lunging-I think that is playing. My two dogs do that all the time. It will get better and better! You're doing a great job!!


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

I'm going to be the naysayer here. I do not think this is, or will ever be, a good match between these two dogs. As a foster person I would never leave a dog in an adoption that was attacking the resident dog the way this female has done (or the other way around either). It is not a good match. 

I think the dog was misrepresented to you, maybe to get rid of it. Maybe this is just a personality clash between these two dogs, or maybe this female does not get along with other dogs and they lied to you, knowing it was a cross country adoption they knew you would be stuck with her. I'm sorry you are dealing with this, but it really concerns me that she continues to be ugly to Jack and make him fearful in his own home. I would be very worried that you will end up with Jack's personality changing if this continues.

Do you have the ability to return her if it doesn't work out?


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

I have to agree with Melissa. I would never let my resident dog(s) be intimidated or treated so as to be fearful. I'm so sorry you guys are going through this, but I think your first thought has to be to ensure Jack is well.... emotionally and physically.


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## lyssa (Mar 1, 2011)

Has Jack spent a lot of time around other dogs? If indeed he is submissive, it sounds like he's having trouble conveying that with body language... If he has a paw put on his back and wishes to submit he should just be sitting down, or looking away with tail low... not retaliating at all, that is not submission. Sounds like a dog that doesn't know what he wants. I'm just wondering whether he was taken young from his litter or wasn't socialised much during puppyhood/young adulthood. It's a bit odd that Asha is fine with all dogs but Jack... unless you were lied to and Asha has had problems with other dogs. 

The other issue in play here could be that you are inadvertently making the situation worse by giving them attention and sparking rivalries. I would be leaving them totally alone and not even giving eye contact, try not to get upset when they have their lunges, try to look away. Never give praise or "reassurance" if they are upset, agitated etc... you will foster that mindset. Wait until it has calmed down, then give a LOT of praise. This is very important. If you 'praise' what you don't want, you will get more of it. 

If it is true that Asha has never ever been dog aggressive then there must be something in the current situation making her so. Like someone suggested, it could be that their personalities just clash. She sounds very dominant, and while Jack sounds quite submissive, he might just not be submissive enough for her uber dominance, or know how to communicate well with her. It is a shame you couldn't do the walk thing first off, or at least a re-introduction on neutral grounds. It still sounds possible but you may have to put some work into it, leaving it to work itself out may not cut it.


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## CrazyGolden (Nov 27, 2010)

mylissyk said:


> I'm going to be the naysayer here. I do not think this is, or will ever be, a good match between these two dogs. As a foster person I would never leave a dog in an adoption that was attacking the resident dog the way this female has done (or the other way around either). It is not a good match.
> 
> I think the dog was misrepresented to you, maybe to get rid of it. Maybe this is just a personality clash between these two dogs, or maybe this female does not get along with other dogs and they lied to you, knowing it was a cross country adoption they knew you would be stuck with her. I'm sorry you are dealing with this, but it really concerns me that she continues to be ugly to Jack and make him fearful in his own home. I would be very worried that you will end up with Jack's personality changing if this continues.
> 
> Do you have the ability to return her if it doesn't work out?


 
It is stated that if it doesn't work out, they will take her back and that she will just stay in New England now rather than go back to Tennessee. And your concern about Jack having damage done to his personality is a huge concern of mine also. He is already so submissive as it is. This lack of confidence has caused him to submissive pee SO many times with my Husband and visitors my Husband gets so upset about this because I think he just doesn't understand the concept of the behavior like I do. I try to explain it but he still gets so frustrated each time. I worry that since he is already submissive that this type of dominance aggression toward him will make our situation with him far worse and we have already not been able to get the submissive urination under control as it is. If any other damage is done to his ego, I don't know how bad this would get. And I'd hate to think this could ruin his friendliness with other dogs. 

At the same time though, I like to think they didn't lie to me. I'd like to think a rescue and a foster Mom would not make this elaborate story up and continue to uphold it now about her being one way when she was the complete opposite. At that rate, they'd be dooming the dog to yet more bouncing around because she wasn't placed with the right family. That isn't fair to her or anyone else involved. They insisted on her petfinder listing that she would do great in a home with other dogs and children. I'd like to think they would not go as far as to list this if it was so bluntly untrue. My Jack was here first and he is my baby. Any dog that comes into this family needs to love him too.

In thinking the best and that they were not and are not continuing to bluntly lie to me, I'd like to think that friendly dog they told me about would come through if I work with her. I'd hate to give up on her so quickly and feel like I let her down. And now I worry what may happen if I say she is being aggressive. I'd like to hope she'd just be placed with a family without other dogs and not the alternative of her being labled "unadoptable". I don't want to be the one who ruined her chance either. I mean, she seems fine with us but like my Husband has said... when is she going to just snap on us or our son? I'd like to think not... 
And then what if she goes to a home that is expecting a dog like I was... no jumping, no barking, sits when told, housetrained... just to find that none of that is true? What will they do with her? Will she be without a home AGAIN? I know not all people will put in the time to help her with these things. Many times if they are getting an older dog, it is because they assume certain things are a given because she isn't a young puppy. That isn't the case though.

I just don't know what to do. I'm worried about my Jack but I am also worried about her now too. Then at the same time I know my family needs to come first and that there may be someplace else out there better for her... maybe in the long run a family without other dogs. I am just confused by what I see and what I was told so I don't know what to think will be the outcome. I do see changes in Jack thought that are making me uncomfortable. He isn't himself and it does really bother me.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

I have to agree with Melissa and Betty on this one. I know that you did fall in love with her but in one your previous posts, you said that she told you she kept in a kennel all the time but now she says she played with all her goldens. So I think this woman isnt being totally truthful. I know that you want it to work out but Jack's needs come first and if this goes on too long he may become fearful of more dogs. 

My heart goes out to you. Asha sounds like a really sweet dog with people but it sounds like she needs to be in a home where she is the only dog and maybe with a cat. You are not a bad person to give her back to the rescue and they should have known more of her personality. I cant beleive she hasnt shown this side before to another dog. Because most all the fosters that I have had that were like that showed it in other foster homes. That is not a one time behavior. It sounds like she wants to be top dog and has done it with other dogs before. 

I would not keep forcing it between the two of them because it might escilate to where one of them getting hurt and then you would feel really bad. Contact the rescue foster coordinator, not the foster mom and explain everything from your first conversation (crating to today). Give Jack and Asha a big hug. She deserves the right home with no other dogs and I would tell the rescue coordinator that too.


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## Sophie_Mom (Jan 21, 2009)

When Sophie was a year old, we brought home another dog (her mother, actually). Although there was no aggression between them, it was clear that this new dog did not like Sophie and wanted to be the only dog. On her own, she was the sweetest dog and LOVED us, but she did not love or even like Sophie. If she wasn't out-and-out ignoring Sophie, she was taking toys, balls, bones, attention, etc. away from her. Sophie desperately wanted to play, but that wasn't going to happen. We gave it 3 weeks, but ultimately had to give her back. It was really sad and I cried a lot, but everyone agreed that it wasn't a best fit for Sophie, or the other dog. She ended up getting the most perfect, amazing home (as an only dog) and things definitely came out the way they should have. A year later, we brought Sawyer home and it was a perfect match for Sophie. I hope you are able to figure things out for all involved.


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## lyssa (Mar 1, 2011)

When adopting a new dog when you already have one, a good rule of thumb is to ask specifically for a dog whose energy is lower than your existing dog. So if your existing one is quite submissive, in order to fit in with the household, you need a very submissive dog. I don't know whether they told you much about Asha's level of dominance or lied about it, but being a dominant dog she was always going to create large ripples.

Also, I was wondering what you had tried for the submissive urination with Jack... you said your husband didn't really understand it? Is it that it frustrates him and he doesn't try to? It's a real shame because it can quite often be managed to a relatively high level as you probably know. Sounds like Jack needs quite a bit of attention and if he is to have a friend it needs to be one that supports him, not challenges him. You need a nice soft gentle submissive girl for that.

I still think you could maybe make it work, but you need to walk walk walk and walk them. Your house is going to be full of doggy tension by now.


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## caseypooh (Dec 30, 2010)

I bet there is a family out there without a pup that is looking for a dog just like Asha and will love her and thank you for giving her a chance too.


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## Braccarius (Sep 8, 2008)

I don't like being someone to say "can't", but I have a strong suspicion that these two will never be a good match, and I really don't think that makes for a good family unit and would stress both dogs out. Her personality and his personality don't jive for whatever reason and in the end both would likely be better off separated. I think in future adoptions I would bring my boy along with me to see what animals he matches up well with.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Asha wagging her tail isn't a friendly gesture when she's looking at Jack. It's a very aggressive position. The fact that she wouldn't even let him off the chair would be the deal killer for me. I literally had tears come to my eyes when I read that because Jack sounds just like my Danny and I couldn't imagine the fear and confusion he would be feeling in that situation. I am an experienced foster home and I can tell you that my dogs come first and foremost and I would return a dog who treated one of mine that way immediately. Actually, I did when a foster dog jumped on my old girl Tess for absolutely no reason. I called the rescue and said I was taking her back to the vet because I refused to allow a foster dog attack one of mine. Another reason I do puppies now.


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## CrazyGolden (Nov 27, 2010)

Braccarius said:


> I don't like being someone to say "can't", but I have a strong suspicion that these two will never be a good match, and I really don't think that makes for a good family unit and would stress both dogs out. Her personality and his personality don't jive for whatever reason and in the end both would likely be better off separated. I think in future adoptions I would bring my boy along with me to see what animals he matches up well with.


 
Unfortunately, we did not have the option of a meet and greet because we did not first meet her till pick up day from the transport RV. She travelled from Tennessee to New England to be with us so it was a blind adoption and I was going solely on what I was told. They also advised me not to bring my dog to the pickup as to not add more stress for her.


Thank you for all the support and personal experiences. Part of me really feels like maybe she would be happier in a home with no other dogs and I know Jack would be happier with another dog that actually likes him, obviously. I just feel torn. I do appreciate all the people trying to help with this though. It has been a very nerve-racking situation and the total opposite of the happy homecoming I was expecting.


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## Sophie_Mom (Jan 21, 2009)

I'm so sorry


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## CrazyGolden (Nov 27, 2010)

Through some tears, I just emailed one of the adoption coordinators I worked with. I explained the situation and that in my opinion she seemed to be maybe better suited as an only dog. We'll see what they say...


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## Belle's Mom (Jan 24, 2007)

I am so sorry for your experience and disappointment. It is always tough when you are so excited about something and it does not turn out how you want and anticipate. 

I do agree with the others that these 2 would be happier without each other and I believe Asha should be returned. But I am also a firm believer that everything happens for a reason. In this case I think that possibly her furever home is in your area, but maybe those individuals would not want to adopt a dog without meeting them first as some people are not as sweet as you to adopt a dog site unseen......hence you helped her get to the area where her furever home was waiting for her.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

CrazyGolden said:


> Through some tears, I just emailed one of the adoption coordinators I worked with. I explained the situation and that in my opinion she seemed to be maybe better suited as an only dog. We'll see what they say...


You aren't failing her, you're doing what's best for sweet Jack. Just remember that.


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## Belle's Mom (Jan 24, 2007)

Sending you a cyber hug after reading you just sent your email. It took a lot of courage to send that email. There is a sweetie out there that will love you and Jack.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*CrazyGolden*

CrazyGolden

I am so very sorry for all you are going through-I know how high your expectations were, and I am sorry it is not working out that way.

let us know what the adoption coordinator says.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

I really am sorry things have gone this way. I don't think she is necessarily aggressive, just NOT a good match for Jack. 

This is just my opinion, but I really think you need to return her as soon as possible, and in the meantime keep them seperated so that Jack can get his security, and his home, back. I really feel bad for him in this situation. 

I hope you won't give up on the idea of another dog though, but try a local adoption where you can introduce Jack to the dog and let him pick his new friend. That really is the best way.

Please try not to feel like you've failed, you haven't, and neither dog is bad!


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

So sorry this is your rescue experience.

IMO, YOUR dog has to come first. It's not fair to him to be put in a situation where he's constantly under extreme stress due to the aggressive behavior of the new dog; and it's no good for the new dog to continue to practice that behavior.

You could try finding a QUALIFIED trainer to come in and look at things for you and see if s/he feels it's something that can be worked on with a training and management program that's realistic for your household. If you go this route, I'd keep the dogs apart until then so Jack can relax and so new kid can't practice unwanted behavior.

It may be that this ins't the right dog for you. And that's okay. That's why many rescues want a couple meet-and-greets prior to placing a dog ... and unfortunately, due to circumstances beyond your control, you didn't get that chance.


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

....living in that kind of state of arousal isn't in her best interest either....



fostermom said:


> You aren't failing her, you're doing what's best for sweet Jack. Just remember that.


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## lyssa (Mar 1, 2011)

I'm sorry that things have gone this way, but of course you have to do what is right for Jack and your household dynamics. It will probably be what is right for Asha too because I doubt she is happy or relaxed at the moment either.

However, about Asha.... remember to stress to whoever you talk to, whatever ends up happening with her, that she has only shown some relatively minor dog aggression, supposedly with only one dog. Dog aggression does *not* automatically translate into human aggression, in fact rarely does... especially as with Asher and Jack it never escalated to an actual dog fight - it seems to have been relatively low level (although to you and Jack it probably didn't feel like that!). She was simply a very dominant dog in the context of your household. To see her branded as aggressive, and have some terrible outcome would be just too tragic. I am sure you will say the right things anyway, but I'm just concerned that she needs to avoid being labelled, and at the same time push her positives. Doing that would help her and hopefully put your fears for her not finding a good home without you to rest some.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

CrazyGolden said:


> I mean, she seems fine with us but like my Husband has said... when is she going to just snap on us or our son?


I just had to address this comment...Dog aggression does *NOT* mean that the dog will become people aggressive. 

Sorry, just a pet peeve of mine when people think this...










_Edited to add_: Oops...should have read your post first, lyssa.


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## GinnyinPA (Oct 31, 2010)

I am so sorry things have worked out so badly for you. I know how much you were looking forward to adopting Asha, but you couldn't know how it would affect Jack. She might do well in a household with high energy dominant personalities, but not in one where the disparity in personalities is so great. The fact that you were trying to deal with the two of them, plus your toddler, alone didn't really help. You did the best you could, but you have to take care of your family, and that may mean giving Asha to another home so that everybody is happier. Hugs to all of you.


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## CrazyGolden (Nov 27, 2010)

I was not sure how to quote two people in one message.. 

To Lyssa and Kwhit,

I had mentioned earlier that I was worried they would take this aggression the wrong way and I fully intend to make it clear how sweet she is with us and that I do believe should could make a great dog... just in the right home. Possibly as an only dog. I said this in my email and will definitely continue to drive this point home because if Jack was not here and she was the only dog I had, she would not be leaving. I really do like her a lot.

And I did say the same thing to my husband as you both pointed out. Dog aggression does not mean people aggression and I do not believe she is or would be people aggressive by any means. She could not have been more friendly at first sight with me and has continued to be very affectionate with us. This has strictly been an issue with Jack. I would not want to see her lose her chance at a home because of this instance. Whether it means being fostered in another home that handles things differently (less time in a crate indoors and more time living among other dogs) to evaluate her behavior more or just placing her as an only dog. Either way, I certainly do not believe this instance is the make or break for this girl.

I just can't have her going after Jack anymore. Tonight she went at him again and this time it took longer for her to listen to my commanding her to stop. Jack was not physically hurt but walked away crying and whining almost as if to say "please, someone stop this. why?... I can't take this anymore." I wanted to cry. I just pictured that being what he was saying through his whining. It was almost like a pleading for it to just stop. I can't watch that. And more and more I am seeing new behaviors in him that are worrying me. I still have not heard back from the rescue yet. I hope they get back to me by tomorrow. I am not sure what irreversable damage may be being done to Jack but I'm not liking the changes I am noticing. 

I'm going to be sure to keep them separated now as much as possible. I'm hoping to get my Jack back..


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## GinnyinPA (Oct 31, 2010)

Do you have a friend or family member who could take Asha for a few days until you get things straightened out with the rescue group? Since it 's a holiday weekend, you may not hear back until Tuesday or Wednesday.


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## CrazyGolden (Nov 27, 2010)

GinnyinPA said:


> Do you have a friend or family member who could take Asha for a few days until you get things straightened out with the rescue group? Since it 's a holiday weekend, you may not hear back until Tuesday or Wednesday.


 
I was thinking that too but I am hoping that maybe they check emails from home and because of the nature of the problem, they will at least speak to me even if no action is taken yet. Unfortunately, we do not live close by to family and they all have dogs and many of them so it'd be more work on them then they could handle. Especially seeing as they all work full time. I am a stay at home Mom so I am here all day to keep an eye on things and bring her out (she isn't housetrained).


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## CrazyGolden (Nov 27, 2010)

The rescue got back to me and sent me a link of things to do to try to help the situation because they hear many times that the new dog and the resident dog are not getting along right away. I explained to them some of the things I was noticing in Jack now and also that pretty much all of the things on their list of suggestions are things we have tried. They got back to me saying that they are now looking for a foster in the area to take her. 

She has not been here long but this is breaking my heart. I feel horrible and I can't stop tearing up...


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## lyssa (Mar 1, 2011)

Great to hear that you are pushing her positives - who knows her 'dog aggression' could just be a one off thing with Jack and she may indeed be fine with other dogs. They just weren't meant to be mates.

On the topic of Jack recovering, I have no doubt he will, truly. Try not to worry because that will make him worse. Dogs live very much in the moment, and when you find a dog holding onto a traumatic incident it is usually because the owner is the one holding onto it. He will take the lead for his behaviour from you. You may find that he'll take a couple of days, or even a week or two to go back to his usual self... but you should just act like nothing has happened, don't pander to weakness from him but instead praise his returning to confidence with parties of happiness!! So long as you don't hold onto what happened, he will recover fine. Dogs are extremely adaptable creatures and despite being threatened and being upset by it, he wasn't hurt physically and I would wager, won't be hurt mentally one bit. Just give him a bit of time, act as normal as possible, and don't mope over him as that won't give him a chance to heal. As your dog's leader, especially for a very submissive dog, your calm and confident state of mind is essential.

Actually practicing a calm confident state of mind could be the perfect time to work on the submissive urination issues if you wished to.... not sure how much you have before. You could sell it to your husband as part of the healing process for Jack, once Asha leaves. Being calm would be great for both, less eye contact, no standing right over Jack (if you want to be near him always get down to his level), no excited greetings, no punishments just praise for good behaviour. Those things would be great to boost confidence and are usually what is prescribed for submission urination, along with limiting drinking.

Anyway, don't fret about Jack. Dogs can bounce back from all sorts of situations with a bit of understanding, space and time. Just be push yourself to be calming and confident around him and it will help him, and you!


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## Sophie_Mom (Jan 21, 2009)

Jack is your baby. You have to take care of him first and foremost. I'm so sorry this is happening.  Both Jack and Asha deserve the best possible situation for this. Living together clearly is not it.

And, oh yes, I have no doubt that Jack will bounce back in no time!


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

Please dont look at this as failing her. I am not saying this to be mean about the rescue as I rescue thru an organization myself but I feel they didnt give you the whole story on her. The foster person told you two different stories on how she was kept. And the first one I think is the truth of being kept in the crate most of the time. Her going after Jack is a sign of why she might have been kept there in the crate, since you said she had other dogs. 

Keep them in seperate rooms and rotate them. Both of them will for more comfortable. Because as much as Jack is feeling nervous and scared, so is she. Her comes out in the attacking and his is submissiveness. 

Good luck and never feel you let her down or failed her. The right home is out there for her. I am sure the rescue will do right by her (or at least I hope they will)


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*CrazyGolden*

CrazyGolden

I am so glad that the rescue is looking for a foster for Asha.
Since the rescue was in Tennessee, do they have fosters in the Eastern States?


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## CrazyGolden (Nov 27, 2010)

Karen519 said:


> CrazyGolden
> 
> I am so glad that the rescue is looking for a foster for Asha.
> Since the rescue was in Tennessee, do they have fosters in the Eastern States?


 

Yes, they are looking for a foster for her in this area now. I really hope she finds a home that she is happy in and receives all the love she deserves. I know I need to do what is right for the sake of my Jack and I am suffering watching him be so stressed in his own home and yet I just can't help but cry when I look as her and she is wiggling that butt and trying to cuddle me. I keep asking her, why can't you be this sweet with my dog?!


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Please do Jack a favor and keep them completely separated until the new foster home is found. This is one of those times that "crate and rotate" (or the use of baby gates) is completely necessary for Jack's sake.


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## CrazyGolden (Nov 27, 2010)

fostermom said:


> Please do Jack a favor and keep them completely separated until the new foster home is found. This is one of those times that "crate and rotate" (or the use of baby gates) is completely necessary for Jack's sake.


 
I have been keeping them separated. In general, they can be around each other and nothing may happen for a little while but then certain things (sometimes things I am completely unable to pin point) will cause her to snap again and feel the need to stare him down or go after him.


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## Tanyac (Jun 18, 2008)

I have just spent an age reading right through this thread. I'm so sorry that things have been so difficult since bringing Asha home.

Whatever the reasons, the fact is that Asha has been terrorising poor Jack, the resident dog from the minute she came into your home. As much as Jack would love a companion, I doubt you thought in a million years it would be this way.

So although it is very sad that you have had to speak to the rescue about them finding her another Foster, I feel strongly you are doing exactly the right thing. 

It sounds like Asha is probably undersocialised herself, is a dominant character and sensed that she could easily get the upper hand (or paw!) over Jack. Once she had succeeded it sounds like she's racked up the stakes by trying to control his movements etc. 

I agree that she would probably do really well as an only dog, especially with someone who can work with her, as anyone who owns a "strong" bitch knows, they will totally run the show (humans included) given half a chance!

I wouldn't let them be together at all at this point, as Jack is obviously being traumatised, it really isn't very fair on him.

So sorry things haven't worked out, I just hope the rescue can make some arrangements sooner rather than later.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*CrazyGolden*



CrazyGolden said:


> Yes, they are looking for a foster for her in this area now. I really hope she finds a home that she is happy in and receives all the love she deserves. I know I need to do what is right for the sake of my Jack and I am suffering watching him be so stressed in his own home and yet I just can't help but cry when I look as her and she is wiggling that butt and trying to cuddle me. I keep asking her, why can't you be this sweet with my dog?!


Oh, I am so very sorry you are having to go through this, you and Jack.
I know you feel badly for Asha, but I am hoping they find her a very good foster home soon. It is such a shame that this happened.


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## Rainheart (Nov 28, 2010)

I think this is the right decision, so do not beat yourself up about it. Neither Jack nor Asha would be happy (and you as well) if they were kept in this situation. I am sure she will find the home that she deserves. You are just doing what is best for everyone.


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## Jax's Mom (Oct 16, 2009)

I'm so sorry you are having such a bad experience with a rescue. Maybe next time you can choose a rescue you and Jack can meet together. This is one of the reasons I chose to get a puppy rescue, and even that didnt go as smoothly as i would think (had some mild food aggression at first). Its not always smooth sailing when you bring a new dog into the picture. I know Asha will find a place she fits in with better and I also know you will find Jack a suitable pal. Please try not to feel too badly about it. You and your husband need to do whats best for Jack. HUGS


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## momtoMax (Apr 21, 2009)

I know others who have had to return a rescue dog, don't feel badly. Your initial responsibility is to Jack so I think as long as you put yourselves and him first, you can't go wrong.


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## CrazyGolden (Nov 27, 2010)

Thank you for all the support. Although, for the past hour I have been emailing back and forth with the adoption coordinator that approved my application and she is trying to talk me into keeping Asha around for another 2 weeks insisting that this will all probably go away in the first week. And she asked me "are you sure you want to give up on her so soon?"... I felt so guilty after that. This is making me feel bad and I don't know what to do. I am afraid of what damage may be done to poor Jack's great personality if I continue to do this for another 2 weeks. He is already changing in some ways and doing things that are unlike him. And since I have a soft spot for Asha now, it hasn't been very hard for the coordinator to make me wonder if I am doing her a disservice and just "giving up".


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

momtoMax said:


> I know others who have had to return a rescue dog, don't feel badly. Your initial responsibility is to Jack so I think as long as you put yourselves and him first, you can't go wrong.


 
I'm just going to reiterate what momtoMax said. Your first responsibility is to Jack. If this is not right you know it, don't let them pressure you into keeping her.


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## LovelyGold (Nov 4, 2010)

I agree with all the wise posts here. It's obvious you love and care for both dogs, and you aren't giving up on Asha only doing what's best for Jack (your resident dog) and both dogs in the long run. As everyone wrote you need to do what's best for Jack first.


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## AmbersDad (Dec 25, 2007)

It is truly a difficult situation to be a part of and have to deal with for all involved. I do have a question thouigh, that after reading everything I did not see any mention of. How did they do while on the hour long or more walk? How did they do after the walk? Did they get the chance to "greet/meet" each other while walking as previously mentioned? How were they when they both had their energy levels drained and were both in a slightly more calm state? Sorry if it was mentioned but I didnt see how they handled the actual hour long walk and how they managed directly thereafter?


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*CrazyGolden*

CrazyGolden

This is just a guess on my part, but are they looking for a foster home for Asha with no other dogs? If that is the case, I think it will be hard to find, since most people that foster dogs have other dogs.

How did Jack and Asha do after their walk as Amber's Dad asked?


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## CrazyGolden (Nov 27, 2010)

AmbersDad said:


> It is truly a difficult situation to be a part of and have to deal with for all involved. I do have a question thouigh, that after reading everything I did not see any mention of. How did they do while on the hour long or more walk? How did they do after the walk? Did they get the chance to "greet/meet" each other while walking as previously mentioned? How were they when they both had their energy levels drained and were both in a slightly more calm state? Sorry if it was mentioned but I didnt see how they handled the actual hour long walk and how they managed directly thereafter?


 
We did take them for a walk but because of my husband's work schedule it did not end up being an hour long. They were okay on the walk. When it was originally suggested, there had been no proper "butt sniffing" greeting between the two but when we went, at that point they had already done that in the house. We did allow for it on the walk also. When walking side by side, they were both looking elsewhere and sniffing around but also looking to each other now and then. I noticed she kept doing this wide range back and forth. I am not sure if this is her normal on extended walks though. She'd glide to the left and right and when gliding Jack's way, she would sometimes get right up to his side if not go around him and to the other side of him. Jack just seemed very stress the whole walk. He was pulling on the leash a lot to the point of wheezing and he is not a puller on leash. That bothered me to watch.  
Otherwise, we'd allow one in front of the other to allow sniffing. Jack seemed more interested in sniffing her when she was in front than she did of sniffing him when he was.

When we got back in, within the first couple of minutes she went after him again. I wasn't really sure why. At that moment I was not paying much attention to look for a possible trigger.

Today, my Husband suggested that maybe we give it more time to try to make it work with her. He feels like maybe we are not giving her a chance. He knows my concerns about long term effects on Jack and the fact that if she ends up having to leave in the end anyway because she won't stop, I don't want the separation to be any more difficult on Asha or myself because we would have become more attached at that point. Especially her because she has been waiting for a loving home for so long now. I'd feel horrible. Well, more than I do already. He said he feels like maybe they are right though and that they know better than us and more time will fix the problem. I just worry that... what if that doesn't happen? What if this ruins Jack because it doesn't stop? I mean, if it did stop, she loosened up and everything turned out fine... then I am sure Jack may bounce back and they could be happy but that is a big IF to me right now. The alternative scares me. I have not seen the slightest bit of signs of them even wanting to play or anything. At the very least, I have seen dogs that maybe show signs of wanting to play but just get intimidated or defensive so they hold back but I see the signs are there... that is not happening here. I need a dog that wants to play with him and enjoy him! Even if they sop fighting, they can't just merely co-exsist. And now I worry that even if she wanted to play, Jack will be to scared to ever try because he won't trust that she won't just snap. I'm not sure what to do. 

I told my Husband I'd like to take them to one of the local parks to walk the trails this afternoon so they will get in a longer walk and in a new enviroment. As worried as I am, I am also curious to do this so I can see if she seems to have the same aggressive reaction to other dogs or if it is just Jack. Not that I'm going to let I get anywhere NEAR physical contact but I want to see if she seems to have a friendly nature about her when seeing the other dogs or if she seems ready to go at it like with Jack. My Husband is just worried how well that walk will work with my 19 month old. We don't live near anyone to have them baby sit. I was thinking they'd be getting along great so having two individual walkers wasn't a big deal. I had originally pictured myhself buying one of those attachments to walk them together on one leash! Now it is a strictly two person job in case Asha tries to get into with him. Hopefully we can work that out though because I really want to see how it goes.


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## CrazyGolden (Nov 27, 2010)

Karen519 said:


> CrazyGolden
> 
> This is just a guess on my part, but are they looking for a foster home for Asha with no other dogs? If that is the case, I think it will be hard to find, since most people that foster dogs have other dogs.
> 
> How did Jack and Asha do after their walk as Amber's Dad asked?


 
I don't believe they are looking for a foster without other dogs because even after stressing my concerns and saying she may be better as an only dog because of my personal experience, they don't seem to believe me. The coordinator I was talking to last night said to me exactly... "I am sure it's NOT that she needs to be an only dog. They need to work out pack order..." In my mind though when you have a dominant dog and a submissive dog then how long should that take? Jack didn't try to challenge her dominance to give her a reason to still be doing this. It is almost as though now and then she likes to just abuse the fact that she knows she can intimidate him.


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

I'm sorry but I don't agree with the rescue representative. Sometimes dogs just don't get along and there is no point in stressing the dogs until it "gets worked out". Believe me both dogs are experiencing stress and you may be stuck with keeping them separated for the rest of the time they are living together. This would not make for a very happy or safe home environment for the dogs or humans.
I understand you wanting to try to work it out but it sounds like, from the description you give, that these dogs may never be comfortable around each other and you may never be able to trust them together.
I have brought 4 dogs into my home on different occasions and worried each time that there would be a disruption to the balance with each dog introduced. Sadly, I did have to return one dog after only 4 days and the rescue was not happy about it but I had to do what was best for the other dog that lived here.
Wishing you the best! This is a very difficult situation.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

OK.... I was gasping over here at the advice to turn them loose together and put them in that position where she feels entitled to pound your dog in his place. 

Sorting out my thoughts based on when we had a dominant dog (our first golden), even bringing a puppy into the home was enough to make him super hormonal and over-expressive of his dominance. He was peeing on the puppy and trying to mount the puppy every chance he got. 

The pup was naturally submissive, but Charmy was going OTT nuts because he didn't know how to handle the situation. 

It calmed down within a couple weeks - so your adoption coordinator is right in saying things have a way of calming down with time.

BUT! 

The more she's permitted to go after your dog, she's going to think that's OK. 

She should be on leash and under control the entire time, especially indoors.

The reason why we're all told to introduce dogs outside the home is because indoors the dogs feel confined and cornered and more likely to identify strangers as threats. 

Since the female was crated indoors, I would assume this means she was not ever socialized with other dogs indoors. So that's one thing she's trying to deal with and failing because she's getting too much thrown at her. 

The rest is that she's in a new place with new people and a new dog and she's probably super anxious, stressed, and acting out. 

Keep your dog safe and control all their interactions. Because your dog is relatively safe and not likely to go charging in to get her, I would be OK with him being off leash and free to go where he wants indoors, but you want to keep her on leash the entire time and only taken off when you see improvement in how she interacts with your other dog. 

You aren't going to be correcting her all the time, but definitely you want to watch for any nose wrinkles or stiffening up and correct her immediately. And praise her immediately. If she can't handle being in the same room with him without constantly going taut, then you need to seperate the dogs and give her all the time to settle in and acclimate. 

She should never be allowed to go after your other dog.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

On top of everything else, why have two dogs that only coexist in a home? I mean, I want my dogs to enjoy each others' company, not just live in the same house. I want them to want to play with each other and lie near each other because they like each other. I have lived through the stress of having a female dog who hated my lab and attacked her regularly. I finally had her put to sleep at 10 years old because her aggression was getting worse and worse. I can tell you that all of the rest of my animals heaved a huge sigh of relief once Maddie was gone. Especially my lab, who I didn't think was too terribly stressed living with Maddie. After Maddie was gone, Jasmine stopped stress licking the furniture and could actually sleep with both eyes closed.

It's not fair to Jack or Asha to keep trying, in my opinion.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

CrazyGolden said:


> When we got back in, within the first couple of minutes she went after him again. I wasn't really sure why. *At that moment I was not paying much attention *to look for a possible trigger


This tells me that I don't feel you have enough dog experience to handle this situation correctly. If you are going to give this a shot, you need to bring in someone, (a _professional_), that can read the body language of your two dogs and will be able to teach you _exactly_ what to look for. Without outside help, I don't see this working out at all.

I don't mean to say you don't know dogs, but in this situation, not many dog owners would be able to handle it the *right* way. I couldn't do it. To let this dog continually go after your dog is wrong. Period. That* has *to stop. You've been told this over and over in this thread, but in almost every post of yours, there's another incident of her going after him.

I'm sure you think you're doing the best you can, but that's kind of my point. Your best is not working...you need to ask for help. The longer you wait, the more difficult it will get. JMO


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Crazygolden*

CRAZYGOLDEN

I think Khwit has a great suggestion about professional help. Does the rescue have anyone that lives close enough to you that could come over and assess Asha with Jack? That would be the ideal situation.

Glad to hear that they aren't trying to find Asha an only dog foster-this should open up more possibilities as far as fosters go.


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## lyssa (Mar 1, 2011)

I think you need to make up your mind if you want to keep them separate or not. I am not sure whether, as was suggested before, that you are sticking to a crate and rotate strategy (or something very similar). If you are going to let them interact then you really need to try hard to help them get on. They will both need stress relief - exercise is great and it will need to be separately at the moment. A 45 minute walk is usually considered enough for a golden if they are not high energy, so you are looking at 1.5 hours per day. A tired dog is much more likely to be a relaxed dog. They both also need play time, separately. Is Asha a ball dog? Play is a great stress reliever, and would help you as well as them. And I would definitely be giving their food via kongs or the like, anything to use up their nervous energy. Only after you have done those things, and maybe given both a good brushing to re-bond with each, would I think of putting them together... and then making the time to watch every move.

However, the best way to make the dogs feel better, is for you to be calm and confident around them. Being upset and beating yourself up needlessly is going to make the behaviour of those dogs way worse. You probably don't want to read this, but please take it in. If you act stressed and upset around the dogs they will take on those emotions and it will trigger their behaviour. Aside from the practical things you can do to help make this work, work on yourself. I am sure I would have to do this too in your situation, it hasn't turned out anything like you expected, but you have a duty of care to those dogs, especially Jack who is looking to you for his cue how to act.... so show him to be calm and collected. Either way this situation will be sorted out. As I said before, dogs are adaptable creatures, they live in the moment and Jack won't be harmed permanently so long as you stay positive and be there for him.

I also think Khwit has a great suggestion, if you can't see why the confrontations happen and you are going to keep them together at all, then you're going to need help to understand their behaviour.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

I do NOT believe it will get better, if she does stop attacking Jack it will only be because he has become so completely submissive he is not the dog you've known. This is a bad situation, and if she stays you will end up with a pair of dogs that may not fight but Jack will always be the loser in the relationship. 

You are in a situation that requires you to keep them TOTALLY seperated because if you don't she will attack him again. You can not allow them to be together without your eyes literally on them every second, and that is simply not feasible - plus it won't stop her from going after him again.

The rescue is pressuring you to keep her because they don't have anywhere for her to go, that's their problem not yours. If it were me, I would be telling to come get her now - before she does real damage to Jack.


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## Belle's Mom (Jan 24, 2007)

I have to agree 100% with mylissyk. She has a lot of experience in fostering and rescue and I respect that opinion. Also, I personally agree with everything she is saying. I think it ultimately will not stop which is not fair to anyone - you, Jack, Asha, etc....and he will always be the loser which is not fair to him and the rescue is pressuring you as they have no where else to place her.

I know you feel bad and I can totally understand. At the end of the day, you have to do what you feel is right, but you have to make the decision with your head and not your heart which is really hard.

I am so sorry you are going thru this.


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## CrazyGolden (Nov 27, 2010)

Thanks everyone. I do know I need to just make up my mind and I do feel like I keep going back and forth. It is just so difficult. Especailly after talking to the rescue a few times. I feel like they are mad at me or something but it isn't my fault. Had they told me anything hinting at an overly dominant nature I would have never considered her a fit for my home. I read... "Very friendly with other dogs of all sizes, the most loving and even tempered dog you'll ever meet..." I was not imagining she'd react like this to Jack at all.

As for the points made about me not being able to pin point the triggers, there are times I am not sure why but that is mostly when I was not looking at that moment. I notice her beginning to react after certain scenerios sometimes that have been consistent. It is just in that moment I was not even looking at them at the time it happened so I did't see anything that may have tipped it off.

It is the point I have made though and the same point many others have too... even if the fighting were to stop, they can't merely co-exsist. I need them to truely enjoy each others company and like each other. Honestly, I can't picture that right now. At best, I picture them co-exsisting with Jack being the "loser" as a few people said. I do keep bouncing back and forth though from all the sides I hear and just the fact that I know how it looks now but I am also struggling with what may be a false hope of it working because I otherwise really like her and feel horrible sending her away already. Sometimes I keep them apart so Jack can relax more (similar to the crate and rotate that was suggested only with rooms within the house). I do put them together sometimes though because then it comes back to the hopes that maybe it will work out if I keep trying to put them together. When I do this, I just keep a close eye so I can see if it seems like she is watching him closely which is usually my first sign. They can co-exsist at times but there are always the triggers or times when she will just start staring him down or if he moves, she gets up to follow him which will sometimes result in nothing but other times she doesn't like what he is doing or what she thinks he was about to do so she goes after him. And when she follows him everytime he gets up, I can see it stresses him out because he just stops and will stand there averting eye contact and staying still like he isn't sure if he is "allowed" to move or not. 

As for when I am with them though, I have not been showing my stress as was suggested. I know that will make it worse. I am internally struggling with what is going on but outwardly I am acting normal and calm so I do not make the situation any worse for either of them.

I must be annoying everyone by now with my bouncing around. I know I'm annoying myself. :doh:


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## lyssa (Mar 1, 2011)

Just want to add before I try to get to sleep here downunder at 2:50am (grr bad jetlag, returned from my wedding in the UK) that I don't think it's fair that the adoption people are pressuring you to keep Asha, the decision should be made by you and you were pretty clear on what you wanted. If you want to reconsider then by all means do it, but don't do it because of them. You are the one with the power in this situation (or should be!), don't let yourself be pushed around.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

And I will reiterate that it's not fair to Jack for you to continue to allow them to be together. It's obvious that it's stressing him out from everything you're describing, even when she's not attacking him. Whether you're waffling on your decision or not, it's totally unfair to keep putting him in that situation over and over. He should be able to trust you and you're eroding that by putting him back in a position where he might be attacked again.


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## CrazyGolden (Nov 27, 2010)

fostermom said:


> And I will reiterate that it's not fair to Jack for you to continue to allow them to be together. It's obvious that it's stressing him out from everything you're describing, even when she's not attacking him. Whether you're waffling on your decision or not, it's totally unfair to keep putting him in that situation over and over. He should be able to trust you and you're eroding that by putting him back in a position where he might be attacked again.


 
I know. I can't argue with you on that one. I just keep having the rescue say they'd work it out on their own and it'd stop if I just waited longer and stopped separating them. I would think they should know what they are talking about so that is why I keep trying. You are making a perfectly valid point too though and I really don't like seeing him stressed out either.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

fostermom said:


> And I will reiterate that it's not fair to Jack for you to continue to allow them to be together. It's obvious that it's stressing him out from everything you're describing, even when she's not attacking him. Whether you're waffling on your decision or not, it's totally unfair to keep putting him in that situation over and over. He should be able to trust you and you're eroding that by putting him back in a position where he might be attacked again.



This is what's been so frustrating to me in this thread! That the two are still being put together and putting Jack in a situation that must be horrible for him. :no: Sad...


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## CrazyGolden (Nov 27, 2010)

kwhit said:


> This is what's been so frustrating to me in this thread! That the two are still being put together and putting Jack in a situation that must be horrible for him. :no: Sad...


 
It is like I said above, I just keep having the rescue say they'd work it out on their own and it'd stop if I just waited longer and stopped separating them. I would think they should know what they are talking about so that is why I keep trying. Everytime I feel like separating them is for the best... I then have someone telling me that separating them is making it worse and they should be together because it'll work out. Then I feel like I am enabling the problem by separating. :banghead:


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## Belle's Mom (Jan 24, 2007)

I would assume the rescue knows what they are talking about except for the fact that you have others on here involved in rescue like mylissyk and fostermom that are disagreeing with what the rescue is telling you....so that also weighs on my mind. 

Unfortunately everyone has their motives and we are not privy to what those motives are. I do not think the rescue is bad or anything like that, but I do think they want you to keep trying because they are "hoping" it works out and they also do not have somewhere else for her and these 2 motives are working hand in hand. I am like you, I try to believe the best in others until they prove me wrong.....but in this case I think you need to be a little selfish for Jack who cannot speak for himself.

When I am trying to figure out a situation like this I often try to put myself in the other's shoes. Put yourself in Jack's shoes. He is the incumbent in the house and think about his life a week ago compared to now.....how would you feel if you were him....

I hope you understand that everything I say on here I am 100% trying to help you. I am not trying to hurt your feelings or anything. Just trying to help you take the emotions out of it as I am not there so I am not really emotional about it as I would be if I were present in the situation.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Since the rescue has not been completely up front about what you were getting, I certainly wouldn't consider them a good source of info about what to do. You've put a kink in their plans and they, imo, have their backs to the wall. I would tell them that you find the situation unworkable and that a foster home needs to be found immediately..... no ifs, ands, or buts. This really makes me wonder about these long distance adoptions. So many are wonderful, but when they aren't, what then?


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

CrazyGolden said:


> Thank you for all the support. Although, for the past hour I have been emailing back and forth with the adoption coordinator that approved my application and she is trying to talk me into keeping Asha around for another 2 weeks insisting that this will all probably go away in the first week. And she asked me "are you sure you want to give up on her so soon?"... I felt so guilty after that. This is making me feel bad and I don't know what to do. I am afraid of what damage may be done to poor Jack's great personality if I continue to do this for another 2 weeks. He is already changing in some ways and doing things that are unlike him. And since I have a soft spot for Asha now, it hasn't been very hard for the coordinator to make me wonder if I am doing her a disservice and just "giving up".


DO NOT let this rescue emotionally bully you into keeping a dog that's not right for your home. You ARE NOT giving up on the dog; you were not prepared for the dog's behavior. It's not a good match. THAT'S OKAY.

IMO, it's quite unprofessional of the rescue to say that. (But I also think it was unprofessional to send a dog out of state to a home with another dog, without the oppt'y for a meet and greet.)

HANG IN THERE. You deserve to have a peaceful home. The occasional squabble between current dog and rescue dog id do-able. Consistently attacking the house-dog and creating circumstances where both dogs are constantly under stress IS NOT OKAY.


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## CrazyGolden (Nov 27, 2010)

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> Since the rescue has not been completely up front about what you were getting, I certainly wouldn't consider them a good source of info about what to do.


 
This is what makes me wonder if it is just something with Jack personally (although, I have no idea what seeing as he never had a chance to even think about crossing any line or trying to be really playful or anything that may have made her uncomfortable) or if it has something to do with being in a home or the bond she started making with me. I really would like to think they did not lie in their listing, insist to me they wanted her ideally in a home with other dogs if they knew all this, and then have the foster Mom continue to uphold that she promises she has never seen an aggressive side to Asha EVER even after I told her what was going on. Why would they have been so excited about placing her with me when she had so many other inquiries if they knew she wouldn't do well with other dogs? I really would hate to think they made this elaborate thing up out of nowhere and are still trying to pass it off as true. Although, my only concern is that many behaviors they said she did not do... she does do and very often. That right there I was trying to chop up to just her being nervous and acting out of character but she has been doing them consistently and constantly since day one even with me trying to discourage it. I really want to think the better of them though that it wasn't all lies. She is otherwise very sweet and great like they said. Just many things that don't seem to match up with what they told me.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

How long did they say it would take to find a new placement? I'd set a time limit if I were you. How'd they get her to you? Did they arrange a transport? If so, they can do it again. You'll probably have to play a little hardball - which, I know isn't easy - so hang in there with it!


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## Our3dogs (Apr 3, 2008)

I know you have a tough decision to make. However, I think as everyone as said, Jack is your primary responsibility. Also as you have said, you don't want the dogs to just co-exist together. That is no life for either one of them. Another thing - no matter how much you can wish it, sometimes 2 particular dogs just do not bond and become friends. Other times, it's a perfect match. Perhaps it would be different if Jack were a strong, confident dog. This all might have worked out differently. But since Jack is very "soft", he needs the same type of companion. I think Asha is very alpha, and knows it, which is why she is pushing Jack around so much. Of course the rescue is going to tell you to let them work it out. They have a lot invested in her transport, etc. However, it does not appear that it is working itself out. You tried - give yourself credit for that. But Jack truly appears to be the one suffering the most here. Even if Asha does settle down a bit with Jack, I think there is a lot of work ahead of you to get to some sort of balance, but I don't think it will never be a match made in heaven. My thoughts are with you.


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## Jige (Mar 17, 2011)

I have done rescue work for over 30yrs and I can tell you that you will have no idea how the two dogs will do after such a short time. I dont know if any one suggested thsi or not as I didnt read every post. You should get two crates and work the dogs on crate and rotate. If you can not watch them both one dogs goes in a crate or both dogs from time to time. I would spend individual time with each dog and then work both dogs together after they have been worked alone. By worked I mean taking each one out and doing obedience or fetch or what ever suits your fancy. It will take time but I think you can work through it. I know it is possible. 
Another note you say that you are acting calm but if you are even thinking about what could happen your dogs are reading that in a slight body language that you might not even realize you are doing. Dogs are very in tuned to the humans in their life.


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## CrazyGolden (Nov 27, 2010)

General V said:


> I have done rescue work for over 30yrs and I can tell you that you will have no idea how the two dogs will do after such a short time. I dont know if any one suggested thsi or not as I didnt read every post. You should get two crates and work the dogs on crate and rotate. If you can not watch them both one dogs goes in a crate or both dogs from time to time. I would spend individual time with each dog and then work both dogs together after they have been worked alone. By worked I mean taking each one out and doing obedience or fetch or what ever suits your fancy. It will take time but I think you can work through it. I know it is possible.
> Another note you say that you are acting calm but if you are even thinking about what could happen your dogs are reading that in a slight body language that you might not even realize you are doing. Dogs are very in tuned to the humans in their life.


 
The rescue is telling me to wait it out too. What about my Jack though? His new behaviors since she came around and got him on edge, worry me. He is growling at everything, biting us more during play, being more nippy with our 19 month old (still great with him but I've noticed more nipping at clothing and his arms. both the biting and nipping I am attributing to his biting when fighting her. he never had to bite before and now it is like it is becoming a habit), pulling on a leash to the point of wheezing when they are out together (he is usaully very good on leash), eating his food so quickly that he is choking (I literally could hear the blocked airways and the food coming up from his lungs numerous times during his feedings. it was so scary.), and showing food aggression now (which is another thing he has never done), and in general being very timid and stressed out. He is so miserable and uncomfortable. 

Asha is also now showing food aggression. She didn't at first but last night tried to attack the cat for being near her while eating. I didn't dare test if she'd be aggressive if a person came to close.

I don't know what to think or do. Too many conflicting opinions. I appreciate them all as I know every person is trying to help me and everyone's hearts are in the right place but I am watching my dog somewhat emotionally fall apart here and I feel like it is a hopeless situation in the long run.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

I disagree. Maybe, there's a chance they would get along, but it is totally unfair to her resident dog to put him through the stress he's going through in the hopes that it would work. She's not a rescue and isn't equipped to make this work out without putting her own dog through too much stress. It may work with some dogs, but it doesn't work with all of them and not everyone can handle crate and rotate. As I've said in the OP's previous thread, I would not live in a household with dogs that I have to crate and rotate. I want my dogs to enjoy each others' company and seek each other out for play and companionship.

I lived for 7 1/2 years with a dog who would unpredictably attack one of my other dogs. It's too stressful on not only the dogs, but on the humans and any other living being in the household.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

FlyingQuizini said:


> How long did they say it would take to find a new placement? I'd set a time limit if I were you. How'd they get her to you? Did they arrange a transport? If so, they can do it again. You'll probably have to play a little hardball - which, I know isn't easy - so hang in there with it!


 
I so agree with this.


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

Please tell the rescue they MUST take Asha back immediately....end of story.


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## Jige (Mar 17, 2011)

Granted crate and rotate is not for everyone but it is a solution even if it is a temporary one until the dog can be re-homed. It would make the living arrangements better for Jack. 

Are the dogs eating at the same time in the same room? If they are I would stop this and feed them either at different times or in different rooms. I would also feed Jack out of your hand opening and closing your hand through out the meal. For Asha I would make her sit and wait before you place the food on the floor you could with hold part of her meal so you make her sit twice during meal times. 

What type of exercise program do you have in place?


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## CrazyGolden (Nov 27, 2010)

General V said:


> Granted crate and rotate is not for everyone but it is a solution even if it is a temporary one until the dog can be re-homed. It would make the living arrangements better for Jack.
> 
> Are the dogs eating at the same time in the same room? If they are I would stop this and feed them either at different times or in different rooms. I would also feed Jack out of your hand opening and closing your hand through out the meal. For Asha I would make her sit and wait before you place the food on the floor you could with hold part of her meal so you make her sit twice during meal times.
> 
> What type of exercise program do you have in place?


 
I have been doing something similar to crate and rotate in a way.. only instead of crates I am rotating rooms.

They do not eat in the same room. I have them separated and they can not see each other. I did this right form the start because I figured if there was already tension and fighting before food even became a part of the equation, chances were that it would probably act well as a trigger. I will take your suggestions as for feeding Jack out of my hand. I definitely would like to get that under control before it becomes a thing. That is why I am worried about her being here as much as I'd love for it to work so she could stay. Asha being around is what started these behaviors and her continuing to be around just enforces them. As for Asha, I do make her sit before she gets her food. I do the same before opening the door to let her out (though as soon as I open it, she books it through my legs).

As for exercise, things have been thrown off a bit by all the commotion but typically it is a mixture of walks and play (inside and out when the weather and surroundings permit. we live on a private golf course and use a fenced in area on the property for off leash play when it is not already being occupied).


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## lyssa (Mar 1, 2011)

It sounds like Jack is stressed, very stressed. I doubt his 'biting' behaviour with Asha is causing his behaviour with humans, because as was pointed out before... dog aggression and human aggression don't translate really. It's likely just full on stress. Like when we are super unhappy and stressed even we lash out at loved ones.

I suggested some stress relieving practical exercises for both Jack and Asha - I really would do them. Both the energetic 45 minute walks for both of them, separately, the play times.... really tire them out, a good grooming session regularly even when it's not needed and kongs daily. I will soon be training a service dog for myself to help with a disability, and have done a huge amount of reading on dog psychology and training in preparation. To help with stress this is usually what is recommended, as well as being calm, confident but still happy. Swimming would really really help too. Jack needs for you to make up your mind very soon, it isn't fair on him right now - or Asha.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*CrazyGolden*

CrazyGolden

All I can say is I really feel sorry for you, your Hubby, Jack and Asha.
I don't think the rescue lied-I have a feeling they did not have enough fosters and that is probably why Lori kept the dogs in crates-she had so many to watch over. 

Did you pay an adoption fee and a transport fee?

I don't doubt they might be having trouble finding a foster-fosters are few and far between-did they give you an idea of how long?

I respect Fostermom and Myslissk because they are experienced in fostering and rescue, however, I've had many dogs, and it sometimes does take time for them to establish who is dominant and who is submissive and I've seen growls and little disagreements-I think that is normal and I have also heard the "two week," thing. However, only someone who is clairvoyant can predict whether they would end up being best buddies that adore each other, or just two dogs that live in the same house. Guess what I am trying to see is I see it from both sides. This is also very hard for you to deal with having a 19 month old child to look after.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Growling is one thing, attacking and intimidating is another. I am boarding two chocolate labs for the owners while they are overseas. The 11 year old has growled at both of my boys, just asking for her space. They've respected that. She hasn't done that with Jasmine who is my alpha girl. If there had been any fighting, I would have kept them totally separate for the 2 weeks they're here. But I am set up here to do that and have had plenty of experience to do that. I also don't have a toddler in the house. I totally feel for the OP, but her resident dog and her family come first.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

CrazyGolden said:


> The rescue is telling me to wait it out too. What about my Jack though? His new behaviors since she came around and got him on edge, worry me. He is growling at everything, biting us more during play, being more nippy with our 19 month old (still great with him but I've noticed more nipping at clothing and his arms. both the biting and nipping I am attributing to his biting when fighting her. he never had to bite before and now it is like it is becoming a habit), pulling on a leash to the point of wheezing when they are out together (he is usaully very good on leash), eating his food so quickly that he is choking (I literally could hear the blocked airways and the food coming up from his lungs numerous times during his feedings. it was so scary.), and showing food aggression now (which is another thing he has never done), and in general being very timid and stressed out. He is so miserable and uncomfortable.
> 
> Asha is also now showing food aggression. She didn't at first but last night tried to attack the cat for being near her while eating. I didn't dare test if she'd be aggressive if a person came to close.
> 
> I don't know what to think or do. Too many conflicting opinions. I appreciate them all as I know every person is trying to help me and everyone's hearts are in the right place but I am watching my dog somewhat emotionally fall apart here and I feel like it is a hopeless situation in the long run.


Wait it out when your dog is exhibiting THAT kind of behavior change? Absolutely not. Period. End of story. If I had that set up, my own dogs would not even SEE the foster. Different rooms. Total rotation. Or I'd make arrangements for my dogs to stay with a friend while I awaited departure of the foster. And I'd be playing some SERIOUS hardball with the "rescue." To the point of threatening to take the dog to a shelter if they claimed to be unable to accommodate my needs w/in a reasonable amount of time. It's just not okay.

I greatly appreciate and admire the work of rescues, but some go about certain things all wrongs. This, IMO, is one of those situations.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Agreed*

I agree that CrazyGolden has to do what is best for Jack and her family.
I really hope the rescue comes through with a foster very soon.
I also agree that CrazyGolden is going to have to put some pressure on them.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

FlyingQuizini said:


> Wait it out when your dog is exhibiting THAT kind of behavior change? Absolutely not. Period. End of story. If I had that set up, my own dogs would not even SEE the foster. Different rooms. Total rotation. Or I'd make arrangements for my dogs to stay with a friend while I awaited departure of the foster. And I'd be playing some SERIOUS hardball with the "rescue." To the point of threatening to take the dog to a shelter if they claimed to be unable to accommodate my needs w/in a reasonable amount of time. It's just not okay.
> 
> I greatly appreciate and admire the work of rescues, but some go about certain things all wrongs. This, IMO, is one of those situations.


Exactly! I boarded two goldens last year and the female was the alpha in her household, so I sent Jasmine (my alpha girl) to go stay with my mom for that week. It was just better not to put the stress on either dog. 

As for the rescue in this case, I'd tell them she needs to be moved ASAP. Their trying to guilt you into keeping her for a while is not right. They should be able to move her into boarding until a foster is found. That's what our group does when a dog needs to be moved or an adopted dog is returned and we don't have a foster home available.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

I have to say, even if Asha was in a home that she got along with other dogs, it doesnt mean she will get along with all dogs. Just like with people not all dogs get along. And the rescue needs to do what is best for her and not hem and haw around trying to having you stick it out. It is not fair to anyone, you,your husband, Jack or Asha. And may cause damage to Jack & Asha down the road. 
You need to be tough with them and say I want a new foster home for her NOW. My dog is scared of her, showing signs of submissiveness that wasnt there before she came and I dont like it or want it. Asha is a sweet dog but not a right fit for us. 

They have had to expect something like this with long distance adoptions, this cant be the first time this has happened. And if they say it hasnt, then I would not trust them. Be firm but nice. 

My Bama is the most laid back golden there is and he has gotten into a couple of scraps with a couple of my foster dogs. It was like a dog fight gone bad. I had to have them seperated for 24 hours until another foster home could take them. The foster dogs would be sweet as pie with the other dogs but something in them just set Bama offf and the war would be on.


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## CrazyGolden (Nov 27, 2010)

The rescue contacted me tonight and gave me the name and number of a local foster that is going to take Asha. I am going to call her tomorrow to set up the drop off. I am going to cry when I make that call and I am going to cry when I leave her there. I know I will. But as I have Jack just laying in my lap right now, I know I need to see him happy. I am still determined to bring another dog into our family and see Jack enjoy a companion. It is just too bad this wasn't the one..

Thank you to everyone who offered their advice. I am sure I annoyed a few of you at times with my rambling and back and forth attitude. I just fall for these babies so quickly and seeing the good in her made it so difficult to just feel like I was giving up. It also hurt to see Jack so unhappy too though. I pray she'll be okay and find her forever, happy home soon. She deserves that and I know I will think about her for a long time to come and always wonder what ever ended up happening for her. I just really hope the rescue is thorough in placing her with the right family so she doesn't need to go through any of this again.


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## lyssa (Mar 1, 2011)

Ok editing what I just posted heh.

I think you are doing the right thing. Perhaps it could have worked with a lot of time and effort and professional help. But no one can predict the outcome and that's no good when you seem to be managing mostly on your own and have a young child.

What you need to find, if you do it again, is a gentle, calm, submissive girl. Ask very specifically for that, and describe Jack. An adopted dog should have less dominant energy than your existing dog. That way you are best set up for success.

Give Jack lots of stress relieving exercise and activies in the next couple of weeks and act as if nothing has happened and I am sure he will return to himself. Feed him by hand, as suggested.... I would even consider putting him on a leash attached to your waist during the day for a couple of days to re-establish your trust, physical bond and rights of leadership. Good luck.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

She'll adjust just fine and Jack will relax when she's gone. You are a rescue's dream because you truly care about the dog you have adopted and you are committed to that dog. You can't control that it didn't work out between Asha and Jack, but you tried to do the right thing and nobody can fault you for that!


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## Belle's Mom (Jan 24, 2007)

I know it is tough but I do believe you are doing the right thing. OK....so here is more of my 2 cents....it is only 8:15 PM your time if I am calculating right....I would call tonight for 2 reasons. 
1 - you do not know if they work outside of the house or have plans for tomorrow and you may not be able to reach them during the day - I personally am easier to reach at night than during the day. 
2 - so you can set up a time to meet and then it is a done deal - no turning back and you can come to peace with it overnight and not keep second guessing yourself - that is not good for you. I am sure the anguish over the last few days has really been mentally exhausting for you which is not good for you, your baby, etc.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

I agree, call tonight, don't wait. Call tonight, set up the hand off as soon as possible.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*CrazyGolden*

CrazyGolden

So glad that a foster is going to take her.
You are doing the right thing.
I know you will tell them everything you liked about her-Asha will find a good home.


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## Our3dogs (Apr 3, 2008)

It was a hard decision, but you have done what is best for everyone in your family and the 2 dogs. Just do some fun things with Jack after she leaves. What you might do to help Jack build up some confidence is try something like agility. When I did agility with our Lacey several years ago, there were many dogs that joined the class just to build up their confidence. Most of the interaction is between you and your dog, but the other dogs are around so that helps as well. We just did it for fun, not to compete so I wasn't worried if I did everything properly - but we both really enjoyed it. Jack might as well. Hope things settle down for you now that the decision has been made.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*CrazyGolden*

CrazyGolden

Just checking in to see if you have connected with Asha's new foster?


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## RallySoob (May 26, 2011)

Poor poor Laura and Jack. I read this whole thread... It sounds like you are a good person with a good dog (Jack) who is just trying to do the right thing. when things didn't work out because they either lied or did not know their dog well enough the 'Foster' did not want to go through the work of relocating the dog right away. And they show no empathy to your situation at all. No accountability at all. Instead they tried to sell you on keeping the dog, probably because it was going to create more work for them to relocate it and its better for them if you kept it all around. 

I sold cars straight out of high school for 2 yrs and I learned all about how the real world works as far as how 'nice' people can be taken advantage of easily...which is why I quit. I couldn't do it and being genuine doesn't bring in big commissions. (dont get me started on my opinions of veterinarians  This whole story makes me a bit upset with the foster you worked with. I think they did a poor job all around on their part. I don't think for one second that they believed the dog was dog-social...What they do for a living is to try and turn as many of those dogs as they can right? I don’t know anything about it...I'm just assuming here. But it seemed like they were willing to 'get rid of another dog' at the expense of your well being and to me it seems they should have been very accommodating to your needs from the beginning. It is not like your case was just 2 dogs not getting along at first...It was one super aggressive alpha female dominating a well raised loving male. 

I have sympathy for Asha though. She really is the victim in this whole scenario because had she been raised correctly from a pup, life would be good for her. But it sounds like she is the type of dog that requires professional help or maybe just a farm to live on...single dog home, something like that. 


Don't get down on yourself for one second. You are Jacks Mom and a good one too! Especially for getting rid of a dog that would ruin his life or at least make the rest of his life complicated and stressful....you are doing the right thing. Especially with a 19mo old baby in the house

*get a rescue puppy if you can


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## CrazyGolden (Nov 27, 2010)

Thanks everyone. I spoke with someone from the rescue today and they did find a foster for her but she may not even make it that far as they said they have another approved adopter that was interested but missed their chance before because she came here. I am meeting with someone from the rescue tomorrow so they can take her and she will either go to her new home tomorrow or go to a foster for a while. I really hope this adopter is the right place for her. I guess it is one of those situations that I feel like no one can love her as much as I could have.. 

In the meantime, Jack and Asha are being kept completely separate. I've been spending time with each of them separately and my time with Jack is some good one-on-one bonding time with him. He seems to have enjoyed a good day of cuddles on the couch. 

Prior to starting the adoption process for Asha, the idea of a golden puppy was thrown around. We knew we wanted a new family addition and since Jack was an adoption also, we never got to enjoy the early puppy stages. I did some talking to people but ultimately, we tried to adopt Asha and nothing came of the puppy search.

I like to believe that everything happens for a reason. As all this commotion between Jack and Asha wound down and they began looking for a foster for her, I received a reply back from someone I had spoken to about a litter of puppies she had that would be available to go home around the 2nd week of June. My husband and I discussed it and since we still intend to welcome a second dog into the family (one that will not put Jack through what he went through with Asha), we decided that maybe the puppy wasn't such a bad idea after all! Between the breeder getting back to me right at this time and the other approved adopter stepping forward and still wanting to bring Asha into her home, I feel like maybe this is just working out as it was supposed to. Maybe we were meant to get that puppy we initially were thinking of and maybe this home is where Asha is meant to find her forever family. My home was just a stepping stone for her..

I'm going to miss Asha (well, the good things between her and I). I'm still going to think about her but I think that having the excitement of the puppy and then being busy with the puppy once our "gotcha" day comes will help. I know how I am and I would dwell and cry for days after she leaves. I can't help but get so attached. 

While I wait for the puppy, Jack and I are going to do lots of bonding. He already seems to be feeling better since I have kept them completely separate since last night. I think he is going to be okay and bounce back. I'm just happy that it didn't get dragged out to the point of permanent damage. I'd never forgive myself.

So... all that being said, I guess you will all be seeing some puppy pictures soon!


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## Belle's Mom (Jan 24, 2007)

So glad to read that things are finally calming down and working out. As you said you plan to do, be sure to love on Jack a ton before puppy comes. Has he been around puppies before?


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## Sophie_Mom (Jan 21, 2009)

I think Jack will do MUCH better with a puppy. Can't wait to hear the stories and see the pictures!


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## CrazyGolden (Nov 27, 2010)

Belle's Mom said:


> So glad to read that things are finally calming down and working out. As you said you plan to do, be sure to love on Jack a ton before puppy comes. Has he been around puppies before?


I absolutely will be loving on Jack and spending lots of quality time (I always have anyway but I will admit that there has not been as much since Asha got here since I had to keep them separate and there was so much commotion). We have some time till the puppy arrives though and I'm going to use that time to re-strengthen that bond. He is still my lovey lap dog. It is warm as heck in here and he is laying right up against me even still just to be close. Way too much body heat for me so I know he must be warm! 

I know a lot of people are probably going to say Jack needed more time before bringing another dog in and I thought of that and can see that point too. At the same time though, this breeder and I really hit it off and I feel good about this so I'd hate to pass up a pup when I know I am going to get one soon anyway. 

Since I have had Jack (I got him at a little over a year), he has only been around puppies in passing when we've been out places or for walks. I honestly feel that he will do well though. I know it is different but he does well with our little kitten (realizing it is smaller than him so easy on the pawing!) and he has a very playful and friendly nature. I see him doing well. I also feel like this will be less intimidating for him as it is not another grown dog coming around with a big personality of it's own. The puppy will kind of look up to him instead of trying to assert itself as much as a grown dog would. 

Here is hoping that this time around things go much better. I think they will. :crossfing I have to say, I'm looking forward to some puppy breath and seeing Jack finally meet a dog that will enjoy his playful nature rather than be annoyed by his goofiness!


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

I am so glad things are working out, and thrilled to hear about the puppy!


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## SandyK (Mar 20, 2011)

Glad to hear things are working out for all of you. Sounds like keeping Jack and Asha seperate helped to make Jack feel more comfortable again. I had a very submissive female that we tried to match with an older rescue dog and never found a good match. We then rescued a hound mix puppy and it worked wonders. Abby was like a mother to her letting her snuggle and chew on her tail. And they became best friends as Ruby grew. I hope you have the same reaction from Jack. I think it will be better. Good-luck!!


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## CrazyGolden (Nov 27, 2010)

Only question now is... boy or girl?!

I explained to the breeder what happened with Asha and told her that when evaluating the puppies to find one that fit our family well, to take into account I am looking for a puppy showing signs of being more laid back. I told her about Jack and his personality and that I ideally would like a dog similar to his personality (as much as it is possible to tell at this age). She has been great about taking not only her own evaluation but the opinions of family living in the home with the puppies and her Veterinarian on their visit today into consideration. She narrowed it down and I've got the option of a girl or a boy. The Vet said maybe a girl would be best but the breeder said since the puppy is coming in young and will be looking to Jack as a teacher and a guider, she thinks I would be fine with either gender. I do love the more clingy and lovey nature of the males (not an official rule but it seems to be a common concensus and I know that is how Jack is!). Desicions, decisions!


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

I think a male too, females are always going to be the boss in the female - male relationship, and Jack doesn't need another bossy female even if she would be a little thing at first.


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## CrazyGolden (Nov 27, 2010)

mylissyk said:


> I think a male too, females are always going to be the boss in the female - male relationship, and Jack doesn't need another bossy female even if she would be a little thing at first.


 
I was thinking the same thing but after the Vet suggesting it'd be better to go with the opposite sex and then my Mom and Husband saying a girl too I started to wonder. I think they think (at least my Mom and Husband anyway) that a male means a power struggle between the two boys when the puppy reaches maturity. I'd be getting him neutered so I don't know if that'd be an issue. I am a little nervous though after what just happened though and I want to make the right choice!


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## GoldenOwner12 (Jun 18, 2008)

When I got Shelley,Einstein wasn't happy and I also noticed a changed in him too. He didn't seem happy at first. Shelley was way to rough kept throwing her weight around Einstein, She kept runing and nocking into him at full force. Einstein got that fed up he pinned her down to the ground by the throat, I let him keep her down for a few minutes then told him to release which he did. Shelley just got up and imediently continued throwing her weight at him and being bossy. I too at times thought maybe it would be best if i gave her back to the breeder, The breeder told me to give it time she just needs to know her place. It took roughly 3 months for Shelley to learn not to be rough with Einstein. My fault too I got Shelley when Einstein was too old to handle such a young puppy. 

I'm glad to hear that another adopter is going to take asha, Don't blame yourself its not your fault. I'm glad to hear that you are going to get a puppy this will work out better, But I do agree with everyone else females are more bossy then males. People say males are more cuddly then females, I don't find that true as my Shelley is very cuddly and will not leave my side. I also found Shelley is more protective over me then Einstein is, Shelley is more hesitant towards strangers then Einstein. Shelley watches there every move and if she doesn't like that person she will bark and growl at them while standing infront of me. Where Einstein will quite happliy run up to most people for a pat, There was only 1 person he didn't go near at all but other then that he isn't protective at all. I often say if we get rubbed Einstein would help them carry the stuff, Where Shelley would probably not let them in the place.


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## lyssa (Mar 1, 2011)

Generally the wisdom is male-female for two dogs, or so I mostly hear. That is not to say that two males will not get on well, but male-female will at least avoid the male 'issues' that sometimes crop up. Yes, getting him neutered would help of course, intact males have a harder time getting on... but neutered males still sometimes have issues with each other. Of course sometimes a pushy female pup will have issues with a male, even after growing up with him. But it's probably a little less likely. I'd go for a female myself, if they are equal in personality.


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## Tanyac (Jun 18, 2008)

Am glad to hear that the Rescue have already got another home lined up for Asha, I'm sure you are very relieved. 

Sounds like the puppy coming along was meant to be! I don't think there would be a problem in getting a bitch. As you've already spoken to the breeder about your needs re personality, she would hopefully have suggested one of the less dominant puppies. She would more than likely end up the dominant one of the two (girls usually are) but I'm sure they would be just great together - not at all the same situation as bringing an adult bitch in.

Good luck with your choice, I look forward to seeing pictures of the new arrival and with Asha the very best for a happy future in her new home. Fingers crossed it's the perfect home for her.


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## Tanyac (Jun 18, 2008)

mylissyk said:


> I think a male too, females are always going to be the boss in the female - male relationship, and Jack doesn't need another bossy female even if she would be a little thing at first.


I think there's definitely a difference between a bitch "in charge" and one who is being a downright bully, as seemed to be the case with Asha.

My bitch Izzie is a year younger than Obi and is definitely the boss, although she is not a bully! 

As long as the bitch puppy isn't too pushy (the breeder should be able to help with this), I don't see a problem, and it will no doubt help the older dog to come out of his shell and even help his confidence.

They'll develop a relationship rather than what happened where the bitch came in and started stamping all over the resident dog.

I guess there are plusses for each combination.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*CrazyGolden*

CrazyGolden

So very happy to hear that Asha has either an adoptive or foster home already!!


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Good luck with the puppy.

I personally would do a male, because females do tend to be large and in charge. My boys absolutely adore each other and they both look up to my female as their leader. It's very common to find them sharing a dog bed or cuddling with Danny using Jasper as a pillow.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

I really don't think you would have a problem with a boy or a girl. A puppy with a proper temperament will adore the older resident always and the resident dog will always be the big brother. Even if you get a female and she eventually becomes the leader it will because your boy lets her because he loves her. However getting a boy will probably work out just as well, having two golden boys together is a great thing, most likely they ill always be best buds.

And I agree, there is a huge difference between a confident leader female and a bully. The way Asha was acting is NOT the way a well-mannered confident female acts.


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## RallySoob (May 26, 2011)

i vote for a female. ...If the personality is right. My female loves male dog attention and she is fixed. If we get another its going to be a male


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## CrazyGolden (Nov 27, 2010)

This is going to be a horribly difficult decision. She sent me some pictures yesterday of two girls and two boys that she thinks I could make out well with. Apparently when they all went to the Vet the other day, the girls were very calm throughout the exam and shots. She didn't say much about how the boys did since she was more talking about the gilrs at that time because the Vet made the suggestion of a girl and picked out the same two girls as the breeder suggested too. Here are some pictures!

The picture of the two puppies are the girls. The picture with the three puppies are the boys and she said the lightest one all the way to the left and the one in the middle would be the best choices from the boys.


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## Our3dogs (Apr 3, 2008)

I also believe you can go either way. It sounds like your breeder has your best interests in mind. It could be she decides for you as the puppies develope over the next couple of weeks. A quick story - when my sisters dog (not a Golden) was about a year old, she noticed he was a quiet, shy type guy, and a bit clingy -much like your guy. She knew she would be getting a 2nd dog. She is a teachers-aid, and one day one of the kids brought in their litter of Springer-Spaniel/Border Collie mix puppies. She decided to take a female. The minute the puppy walked in the door, her dog, Jack, looked at the puppy - and looked at her as if to say - "she's for me?" with the most adoring look. From that very moment the puppy, Abby, was the boss (in a nice-good way) and Jack loved it. He looked to Abby for moral support, etc, till his dying day. It's kind of like it took the pressure off of him and he took his ques from her. Can't wait to see pictures.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

They sure are cute!

I'm a sucker for redheads, so I really love the boy in the middle.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*CrazyGolden*

CrazyGolden

Ken and I have always had a male and a female together-wonderful combination!!! It's up to you, but I think I would go with a girl.


This time because Tucker needed a home, we chose him, so now we have a Male Samoyed who is 21 months old and a Golden Ret. Male who will be 3 years old in September.


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## Our3dogs (Apr 3, 2008)

Oh my word - I was typing while you were posting the pictures of the puppies! I am not sure if breeders allow this, but could you possibly bring Jack with you and see if there is any reaction between one of the boys and one of the girls? Maybe he will end up picking for you.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Our3dogs*

Our3dogs

Great Idea! The breeders should allow this.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

PRECIOUS!!!! They are all adorable!!!


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## CrazyGolden (Nov 27, 2010)

Our3dogs said:


> Oh my word - I was typing while you were posting the pictures of the puppies! I am not sure if breeders allow this, but could you possibly bring Jack with you and see if there is any reaction between one of the boys and one of the girls? Maybe he will end up picking for you.


 
I am sure she would have no problems with that at all. She already brought up us going out there to pick the puppy in person. It is a bit of a drive for us though which is why she has tried to work with us and do the best she can evaluating them and sending lots of opinions and pictures. We have had a lot of daily contact. I believe I may be getting more pictures today!


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Crazygolden*

CRAZYGOLDEN

When does Asha go to her new home?


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## CrazyGolden (Nov 27, 2010)

Karen519 said:


> CRAZYGOLDEN
> 
> When does Asha go to her new home?


 
I am meeting with someone from the rescue today and she told me that Asha will either go to her new home today or she will go to a foster until she does. I just hope they are a good family. The puppy will help but I know I am still going to be thinking about her and worrying about what kind of life she ends up with. I really hope it is a great one. She really is a sweetie with her people and deserves that.


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## Tanyac (Jun 18, 2008)

Good luck with choosing a pup, they are all gorgeous! I especially like the lightest boy.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

I would definitely take Jack with you. Let him help pick. I think it would make a world of difference, especially after what he's been through. 

About three years ago a friend had a Golden puppy, male, and she brought him over to see Chance. Not a good match. Chance is just like Jack, very laid back, very submissive, wouldn't hurt anything. But...he did NOT like this certain puppy, at all. It was the first, and _last_ time Chance ever showed any aggression toward anyone or anything. Went after the puppy twice and I told her that was it, she better leave.

He has since been with other Golden, Pug, Maltese, Great Dane, Lab puppies, you name it, he's been around them, both male and female with no issues ever. It was just this _one particular _puppy. It was weird. 

Anyway, I would take Jack with you, just to be on the safe side.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Asha*

Asha will be very happy. Let us know what they say!


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

kwhit said:


> I would definitely take Jack with you. Let him help pick. I think it would make a world of difference, especially after what he's been through.
> 
> About three years ago a friend had a Golden puppy, male, and she brought him over to see Chance. Not a good match. Chance is just like Jack, very laid back, very submissive, wouldn't hurt anything. But...he did NOT like this certain puppy, at all. It was the first, and _last_ time Chance ever showed any aggression toward anyone or anything. Went after the puppy twice and I told her that was it, she better leave.
> 
> ...


I know this is off topic some, but it's very possible that the puppy had some sort of medical issue. When Danny first came to us, he was in congestive heart failure and every single dog he came across, except for Jasper, tried to attack him. Even my Jasmine would have nothing to do with him for the first few days and back then she absolutely adored the puppies we brought in to foster.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

fostermom said:


> I know this is off topic some, but it's very possible that the puppy had some sort of medical issue. When Danny first came to us, he was in congestive heart failure and every single dog he came across, except for Jasper, tried to attack him. Even my Jasmine would have nothing to do with him for the first few days and back then she absolutely adored the puppies we brought in to foster.


This is interesting. My friend moved soon after that, but we've kept in touch. Her dog is 3 yrs. old now and fine. But...he _had_ gotten really car sick on the way over to my house...could that have been an issue?


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## Neeko13 (Jul 10, 2010)

Tanyac said:


> Good luck with choosing a pup, they are all gorgeous! I especially like the lightest boy.


:wavey::waveyITTO!!!!!......HE'S GORGEOUS.....but arent they all....good luck, it will def. be a match made in heaven...:::


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## CrazyGolden (Nov 27, 2010)

fostermom said:


> I know this is off topic some, but it's very possible that the puppy had some sort of medical issue. When Danny first came to us, he was in congestive heart failure and every single dog he came across, except for Jasper, tried to attack him. Even my Jasmine would have nothing to do with him for the first few days and back then she absolutely adored the puppies we brought in to foster.


I have heard of that too. That sometimes if an animal is sick or has a health problem, other animals can sense that and will go after or completely avoid them as if it is a self-preserving instinct to keep the sickly one away.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Oh my gosh those puppies are to die for! I'm partial to the darker color too, but how in the world will you pick? 

I think taking Jack and letting him pick the puppy is a great idea. Some things are worth the long trip!


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## CrazyGolden (Nov 27, 2010)

Yeah, I was thinking about that (bringing Jack along to help me pick). I'd love to do that but at the same time, with the price of gas now, if I can get enough information that I feel confident the personality should fit it'd be nice not to make that back and forth trip twice. Not to mention, if I go there and see all of them and Jack gets along well with more than one of her suggested picks...picking my final pup is going to be that much harder! At least this way I don't get attached to any one of them based on more than just looks and they are all so darn cute anyway! 

Bringing Jack is a good point though. I just wish she were closer!


EDIT: Actually... We wouldn't even be able to because with my Husband working it would need to be on the weekend which would mean this weekend and they have him scheduled to work Saturday and we have my brother-in-law here and have plans with him Sunday. By the time he leaves it'll be early evening.  Of all weekends to be busy! Otherwise I would have probably tried talking the Hubby into the drive!


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## Our3dogs (Apr 3, 2008)

Even if you decide not to make the 2 trips, maybe bringing Jack when you pick up your choice will be good anyway. This way he has a chance to run around with the puppy, and then have the car ride home with it - rather than you walking into the house and surprising him. If he is with you, I would maybe sit in the back seat so Jack can be right next to you as you hold the puppy. this way he doesn't feel left out if the puppy is riding in the front seat with you and he is in the back. AT least for part of the trip if possible.


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## CrazyGolden (Nov 27, 2010)

Our3dogs said:


> Even if you decide not to make the 2 trips, maybe bringing Jack when you pick up your choice will be good anyway. This way he has a chance to run around with the puppy, and then have the car ride home with it - rather than you walking into the house and surprising him. If he is with you, I would maybe sit in the back seat so Jack can be right next to you as you hold the puppy. this way he doesn't feel left out if the puppy is riding in the front seat with you and he is in the back. AT least for part of the trip if possible.


 
I was already thinking of doing that. I don't want Jack to feel left out or replaced at all. I know the puppy is going to require a lot of attention between house-training and socialization but I want to keep Jack as "in the loop" as possible. He has yet to be on a ride that long but I think he may do okay. He doesn't mind the car. He just doesn't understand that if he'd just lay down or at least sit instead of trying to stand up, his balance would be so much better!


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

kwhit said:


> This is interesting. My friend moved soon after that, but we've kept in touch. Her dog is 3 yrs. old now and fine. But...he _had_ gotten really car sick on the way over to my house...could that have been an issue?


That could definitely be it.


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## Sophie_Mom (Jan 21, 2009)

Sophie wasn't always thrilled with her new little brother, but the moments became much fewer and farther between. She did a great job of "escaping" from him by jumping up on the couch, where he wasn't able to get on his own. We respected that as her safe haven until he was big enough to jump up there himself (or to snuggle). There were moments that I felt like she was sad, or feeling neglected, and those moments sure tugged at my heartstrings. But, then I'd watch them wrestling and running around together, and I knew how great it was for her (and for him). As much as she taught him, he taught her how to initiate play and how to forget her serious self from time to time. They were wonderful together.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

fostermom said:


> That could definitely be it.



Wow...thanks. Maybe mystery solved.


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## CrazyGolden (Nov 27, 2010)

I wanted to give my one final update on Asha...

We just got back from dropping her off to one of the rescue volunteers. I have cried 2 times since but I am trying to take comfort in the fact that not only is she going right to her new home now but that is does in fact seem like maybe all this DID happen for a reason. I was told that where Asha is going, she is going to be trained to be a therapy dog. 

If she had stayed here, even if she got along great with Jack, she never would have gotten the opportunity to do that. I am really going to miss that sweet girl (well, sweet to me!) but at least now I can say it seems as though my house really was just a stepping stone to where she was meant to be and she was meant to do more in her life. Regardless of if she ever does well with other dogs or not, she is very sweet with people. With some training, I have no doubt she could be a great therapy dog. I really hope this is something they follow through with and that she lives out her life loving and being loved as she should.

So now to avoid more tears... on to the puppy situation! Should I start a new thread? lol The title of this one doesn't quite apply to where this conversation is moving to.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Asha*

So very glad that Asha went straight to her new home and I think she will make a fine therapy dog!!


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## Belle's Mom (Jan 24, 2007)

I am so excited to hear Asha is going to go into therapy. What an exciting time for her.

I personally would start a new thread.....to let Asha go to her new calling and start looking forward to the future with the new puppy.


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