# Show comparison photo



## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Hey Stacey, photo didn't link, can you try it again?


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

It is easy to get caught up in competition. You think having the same DNA would mean both girls would be similar, mature at the same rate, or have similar bodies but that isn't often the case. Focus on having fun and learning from your experiences in the ring. Practice pays off. Your breeder kept the best puppy at 8 weeks. Sometimes that puppy doesn't end up being the keeper as they grow up, but sometimes they do. Does it mean your dog can't finish or isn't just as nice? No way! But as a newbie and as an owner handler, there are just more bumps in the road and people told me often when I started that I had to "pay my dues" and basically get ring savvy and put my time in. 

My first show dog didn't win his first point until he was 23 months old by going BOB over specials. He then won 11 points and cleaned up almost every weekend out the next few months that I showed him. He also got about 8 major RWD under his belt during that time. He finished all owner handled and with a specialty 4 pt major. However, there were times when searching for that last major that all I could think about was turning the reigns over to a professional. What I learned was a valuable lesson... if you want it bad enough and have a good dog- it will happen AND-- your dog will win when s/he is mature enough and ready to win. Your dog is very young, enjoy the time you have with her and enjoy the shows. Putting too much pressure on yourself can travel down the lead. Why not take a break until summer-- just out of the 12-18 class puts her in open with the 'big girls' that are often more mature and are only shown when dripping in coat. Btw, no photo came up for me either.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Sorry about that.


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

I will write more later, but both girls look similar. Caly has a better rear. I think Lucy needs her feet tightened up more and IMO would appear to have better bone.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Stacey - is the handler you are hiring grooming her like that + stacking her like that in the shows? That's the thing I'm looking at off the top of my head.


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

Megora, I think she is showing Lucy herself? Right?


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Lucy is owner handled and groomed. She is the dog on the right. Caly is on the left and her owner is with her. Caly is professionally groomed and handled. I think they did a very poor job grooming Caly, they air dried her and her coat was a wavy mess. It didn't matter to the judges though. 

As for Lucy's front feet. When I stack her I normally have them nicely positioned. For some reason I didn't pay enough attention when I was setting up for the photo and missed that her feet are too far apart. There is also a lot of friction between the 2 dogs and Lucy didn't want to get too close to her sister. So I was doing a bunch of convincing to get Lucy that close to her sister.

I do like Caly's rear angulation much better. I think if Lucy had more fur I could have hid her angulation with more coat. But Lucy was naked, she blew her coat 2 weeks before the show, and you can't glue it back on!


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Similar heads, different colors. I think Lucy is longer legged and shorter backed. Her back also looks like it is slightly roached and her croup drops off more than her sister. In real life, she may have a perfectly straight back, but as the handler who teaches my handling class says, that some dogs tilt their pelvis and it roaches their back... Some of mine will do that...


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Sally's mom,
I think you are right about Lucy's legs being longer and back shorter. Her croup does drop off more. 

What I would love to know is how to handle a dog that has features you want to hide, or lessen how noticeable they are.

I have sent the photo off to their breeder. I'm looking forward to sending her a copy of her babies photo.


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

Alaska7133 said:


> Sally's mom,
> I think you are right about Lucy's legs being longer and back shorter. Her croup does drop off more.
> 
> What I would love to know is how to handle a dog that has features you want to hide, or lessen how noticeable they are.


I'm not sure you need to hide anything on her. I see that her professionally handled sister is farther forward on her feet, with her legs right under her, and while Lucy has her under her, she might benefit from a little more forward posture. If you can get her forward a little bit, that top line might straighten out. I know when Gibbs gets back on his feet it can affect his top line. Just a thought. I'm certainly not an expert, though. Farthest thing from it, in fact.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

I was also told I need to pull her head up and forward more. That would probably help with her feet being under her. Amazing little details that make such a difference. I'm always so envious of the junior handlers that grow up in this industry. They make it look so easy at such a young age!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Disclaimer: I'm clueless about all this so please listen to the others who have put titles on their dogs.  

But Stacey - I don't think you have a lot to hide with her. She will get more coat in. Talk to people about growing coat before the next show - see what they do. <- It seems to be a big fixation with some people, especially with females. Even Adele (obedience teacher) has been stressing out a ton about her flat coat female blowing her coat every time she starts getting it. 

I saw the roach that Janice mentioned - but I think it may have a lot to do with how she's standing. I agree with bringing her head and chest forward a little. Maybe check out in front of a mirror. Or just stack her and kneel next to her so you have a good eyeball at the back. <- So blabbeth the person who is learning everything and has much to learn.  

She's a pretty little girl - they do look like sisters.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Do you think your girl has less rear angulation? My handling teacher told me to smooth the hair inwards on the front of the thigh to minimize the straightness..when my girl was stacked..


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## gldnboys (Mar 15, 2012)

Megora said:


> I saw the roach that Janice mentioned - but I think it may have a lot to do with how she's standing. I agree with bringing her head and chest forward a little. Maybe check out in front of a mirror.


Definitely, try baiting her forward more, and you'll very likely find it'll make a huge difference in her topline. Also try positioning her front feet a bit more underneath her, as others have suggested. That combination should make her look more balanced and less "square". I second the mirror idea.

They sure are cute together, and I agree - you can tell that they're sisters.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

OK Now handlers switch dogs....
I think most of the differences are handler induced
They are very similar looking for sure.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Anney, 
You're funny. The woman holding the other dog is the owner and never handles. She just walked her into place without a thought. She didn't touch the dog! Now wouldn't that be great every time! It was purely by chance. She didn't even talk to her or say stay. Caly has been shown a lot more too. 

Back to handling classes and show and go. The arena we take obedience classes at has mirrors on the walls. I work with her there after class. We'll just keep going until we someday finish her. Her mom didn't finish until she was 3-1/2 yrs old. So we'll do the shows that are easy to drive to. Once Caly finishes she will have a better chance.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

I don't think the angle of Lucy in the photo is doing her any favors. She is angled toward the camera so it's really hard to see her front angulation (to the extent one can in a photo). Her rear also looks understacked. I also can't help but wonder if the sister has been taught to free stack a bit better just by virtue of being shown by a pro. 

Don't get too down on her. Some dogs finish quickly and at a young age but they can fall apart just as fast. I would much rather have the dog that takes longer to mature and keeps getting better.


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

I didn't even show Remi until she was 2 because she just did not look mature enough to me. KC will be the same way (maybe closer to 3). KC 's sister is definitely "cuter," but I know KC is structurally nicer. It just takes patience.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

You are right, it takes patience and experience. I figure by showing her now, I'll get better as a handler and Lucy will learn how to be handled. I'm not in a rush. I had no idea the skills necessary to handle a dog in a show ring to make her look her best. It has been eye opening. The first show Lucy was in, she was 10 months old, her sister was not showing yet. Lucy took reserve winners bitch behind her mother who was in first. Doing well is fun!


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Both girls are pretty and both look similar. I can show several of my girls. But have come to the realization that my gait sucks when showing my young girl... I am choppy, makes her choppy. And some do the pelvis tilt which messes up the top line...


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Heck I didn't start seriously showing Fisher until he was 3 1/2! He finished when he was just over 5. That is not unusual. It is rare to have a precocious puppy that finishes early.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

I stewarded at our CCA this fall. The evaluator I helped was a conformation judge who also breeds and has shown his own Golden's to pretty high levels. He was great with the dogs and owners coming though, talking about the standard and how their dogs compared. But also tricks of the trade in grooming and handling that could show that dog off in the best light. It was really interesting. He knows a lot of tricks!
He also told the owner of a little performance bitch that her girl had the best movement of the day and she floated on her go around. Then he asked her owner if anyone had ever moved girl so she could she it. When the owner said no, he took the bitch's led and moved her so the owner could see it for herself. 
He was really fun to stewart for.
Sorry, a bit off topic.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

OK Holly inquiring minds want to know, who was it?? PM me!


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

And then there are the dogs that pace. I have a friend with a GCh girl. I have no idea how they got that far with a dog that paces. Even at high speeds. We do fieldwork together and there she is chasing a bird and pacing. The pacing makes her slower in the field than if she ran normally. It makes her gait very odd.

I've also noticed the dogs that prance. They raise their front feet very high as they walk. They also tend to bounce. It's very cute, but I'm not sure how the judge would view a prancing golden.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I always thought (I read somewhere) - the prancing motion comes from a short or straight fronts.

Pacing has many causes - some related to structure. Some related to the person on the other end of the leash....


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

Megora said:


> I always thought (I read somewhere) - the prancing motion comes from a short or straight fronts.
> 
> Pacing has many causes - some related to structure. Some related to the person on the other end of the leash....


This site helped me start to figure it out.

HOW STRUCTURE AFFECTS MOVEMENT


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Yes! That's one of those thingies I saw before.

The short upper arm and strong rear = more hackney motion


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