# Import from Brazil??? Am I crazy???



## Golden:) (Jul 6, 2012)

So the journey of finding a breeder for two or three years down the road has come down to one year. And still no luck. I recently stumbled upon two breeders in Brazil though that I really like. www.goldensunshine.com.br and Home but Golden Sunshine is my first pick. My question is is importing from Brazil to the States really duable? How expensive is it? Also I don't know how to translate the hip grades, does anyone know how all those work? Also what health clearances should I expect from a Brazilian breeder? Thanks so much, Golden


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## jagmanbrg (Jan 4, 2011)

Your profile says your in the US, so why on earth are you looking for a Golden in Brazil? Just curious.


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

I really think it is unnecesary to import a golden retriever puppy from Brazil. I honestly would share your location or do a search and you should be able to find a puppy locally or within a reasonable driving distance and for probably less than puppy + flight + taxes to import one from S.A.


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## Golden:) (Jul 6, 2012)

jagmanbrg said:


> Your profile says your in the US, so why on earth are you looking for a Golden in Brazil? Just curious.


Because every breeder I have looked into in the U.S. something didn't work out, i.e.. breeder was line breeding, didn't have clearances done, sire or dam had a fair rating, or just nothing really stuck me about their dogs, etc. And I really like the look of their goldens, I fell in love with their looks and eveything about them. I would be open to a U.S. breeder with dog like that though.


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## Golden:) (Jul 6, 2012)

"probably less than puppy + flight + taxes to import one from S.A."
Do you know an estimate of what it would cost?


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## Wendi (Jul 2, 2012)

Some of the dogs on the web sites look like they have very long necks, is that just how they are groomed so it looks that long or is that standard or ??


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## Golden:) (Jul 6, 2012)

Wendi said:


> Some of the dogs on the web sites look like they have very long necks, is that just how they are groomed so it looks that long or is that standard or ??


Partially how they are built, but they accent it by the camera angles by a ton. Here is the link to their standard http://www.goldensunshine.com.br/08/en/padrao.html


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## Golden:) (Jul 6, 2012)

Wendi said:


> Some of the dogs on the web sites look like they have very long necks, is that just how they are groomed so it looks that long or is that standard or ??


you can also check out some of Blue's side shots for reference | Golden Sunshine | Golden Retriever Breeder and PetSpa to ALL BREEDS


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Here is the Golden Retriever Club of America's Puppy Referral link-

You can do a search by Region or State. A list of Golden Retriever Clubs will come up so you can contact them for a Breeder Referral or a list of Breeder's they recommend will be listed.

Golden Retriever Puppies: Golden Retriever Club of America (GRCA)

If it were me looking for a pup, I would prefer to buy one from a Breeder in the US instead of importing because there are many wonderful breeders in the U.S. 

Best of luck in your search.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

There are some lovely dogs in Brazil, but you will need to be very careful as far as clearances. I do not believe that all the breeders there do the 4 basic clearances on breeding dogs, as there is nothing close to the GRCA in Brazil. Also, unfortunately there is a history of some (not all) US breeders selling dogs who did not pass their clearances in the US to breeders abroad. Personally, I think you can find dogs who are just as nice in the US.

I don't understand your comment about line-breeding. Virtually every good breeder I know does some line-breeding. Done properly, it is an excellent tool.

And a Fair rating on hips means no DJD (degenerative joint disease) present. I will take a dog with a Fair rating and a pedigree loaded with Goods over a dog with an Excellent rating from a pedigree loaded with Borderline and dysplastic dogs. Vertical pedigrees on k9data are great for this.

I have to think you have not been looking in the right places.


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

Golden:) said:


> Because every breeder I have looked into in the U.S. something didn't work out, i.e.. breeder was line breeding, didn't have clearances done, sire or dam had a fair rating, or just nothing really stuck me about their dogs, etc. And I really like the look of their goldens, I fell in love with their looks and eveything about them. I would be open to a U.S. breeder with dog like that though.


There is nothing wrong with line breeding IF the breeder knows their pedigrees and the dogs being line bred upon were healthy and lived into their teens. It depends on the breeder and the dogs. As a lay person, automatically judging a breeding because there is some line breeding is unfair without asking the breeder why they chose the pairing, etc. All golden retrievers are line bred, they all started from the same dogs. I would expect the dogs from S.A. are very much line bred like some of the dogs in the US. Pet people may not even notice a line breeding in a pedigree because you are unaware that, for example, Ch. Faera's Future Classic is littermate to Ch. Faera's The Keepsake Kid. Both may appear in a given pedigree but one wouldn't necessarily pick it up but a person "in" the fancy would. So, that was my long way of saying- ASK, as the breeder has a reason for their breedings. They KNOW their pedigrees and they should be following the GRCA's code of ethics for clearances. I am not sure that all of Brazil's breeders do this as they don't have a body like the GRCA. 

Fair ratings on the OFA website are acceptable and there should be no reason to exclude a breeding based on this. Fair means there is no degenerative joint disease present and the conformation of the hip is passing.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Geeze if clearances and no line-breeding were a priority in my puppy search, Brazil would be one of the last places I'd look.
There are a number of US breeders who actively import or send/receive semen from Brazilian dogs (whose pedigrees are heavily influenced by American kennels in the first place). There are quite a few in Florida (geography). 
To be honest the dogs aren't really my style so I'm not sympathetic to the temptation.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

K9-Design said:


> Geeze if clearances and no line-breeding were a priority in my puppy search, Brazil would be one of the last places I'd look.


I can't say I disagree with this. I have seen some of the dogs and they are beautiful, but they do not have the same COE for breeding as the GRCA. If you are concerned about a "fair" rating ..... goodness, no clearances is much worse than an OFA fair rating! I would be very careful with that part of it and do your research.......

Plus, there are people in the US breeding dogs with lines from South American lines. I'm not sure why you wouldn't go to those breeders first, given that the American breeders will be the ones with clearances on the dogs...... but even then, you need to remember that clearances on parents do not make up for a vertical pedigree lacking most, if not all, clearances. I would be much more nervous about that than a dog with a solid pedigree of health clearances with a fair hip rating. 

Blue was shown here in California a bit, I remember him because he was the same age as my Jack at a show in Palm Springs a couple years back. I don't think they ever finished him here for some reason though and I don't see a listing for any clearances on him in the OFA website....which is odd to me considering he was in the US for at least awhile.


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

I am not sure where you are from, but I bet we could point you in the right direction. There are many reputable breeders with beautiful dogs here in the states. Plus, why would you want your breeder all the way in another country?


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## TheZ's (Jun 13, 2011)

With all the Goldens in the U.S. I can't imagine that you couldn't find a very good breeder with a great dog to satisfy you. What are your plans for the dog, will you be competing or is it going to be a family pet? Have you thought about what it would be like if some problem developed, to be dealing with a breeder that far away, in a different language, with different standards and different laws covering your contract. Without even considering the cost, which I'm guessing is considerable, for me there would have to be a very compelling reason to ship a puppy that distance.


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## Golden:) (Jul 6, 2012)

K9-Design said:


> There are a number of US breeders who actively import or send/receive semen from Brazilian dogs (whose pedigrees are heavily influenced by American kennels in the first place). There are quite a few in Florida (geography).
> To be honest the dogs aren't really my style so I'm not sympathetic to the temptation.


Could you give me a list of a few breeders that have Brazilian goldens?


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## princess heidi (Jan 10, 2013)

there are fantastic breeders right here in the middle west area.
if u got to the breeders threads... u will have to click around and u will find more than a handful of fantastic breeders. FANTASTIC


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## Allie (Nov 30, 2008)

I'm going to answer your question with some facts about animal travel by air.
While I worked in cargo for an international carrier - I can tell you it's very difficult for shipping fur babies - or for that matter any live cargo.
Please keep in mind that the travel is long, you need to arrange a customs broker on the point of entry into the US. If paperwork is not correct or incomplete - your pup may have to stay in a kennel until the paperwork is complete. 

And it depends on the carrier involved. It's not going to be cheap by any means. I know that some carriers will charge a flat rate - but you would need to call around and find out A)Schedules from Brazil to your local airport - B)arrange the best schedule and call the airline involved with the best schedule and least amount of airplane transfers C)make sure that all the paperwork is correct. The last thing you want is a pup that is stuck in a kennel at your expense while the paperwork/docs are figured out. And the stress on the puppy?
Me? If I was so keen on a dog from another country - I would fly there and fly it back myself. Less stress and worry.
And probably cheaper and you could actually see the pups and get a vacation out of it.
Just a few things to ponder in addition to the cost - you have to think of other things rather than just money. Puppies are alive; and cargo, while a great way to transport items point a to point b. I would be very hesitant to send a puppy on that long a journey. What if the puppy is sick when it arrives? There are so many unanswered questions that haven't been addressed. 
I have no problem with domestic air travel - I was always the dog/puppy walker on long layovers / transfers in my city!


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## Golden:) (Jul 6, 2012)

I would definitely consider a breeder in the States who breeds dogs from Brazilian lines if any one can give me kennel names.


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

Also may I ask what is it about the looks of Brazillian dogs that you like compared to the US dogs? I think they are pretty similar, except (in my opinion), they groom differently which makes them look completely different.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

I can think of two - De La Vega and Questan - who have dogs in their breeding program sired by Allegre, a south american dog. Beth Johnson (Summit Goldens) also has Hero, my Kira's sire, who is a Hobo son but his dam is from south american lines. Hero has been bred a decent amount, not a ton, but you could also contact her to find out any litters he may have sired coming up.


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## Golden:) (Jul 6, 2012)

goldenjackpuppy said:


> I can think of two - De La Vega and Questan - who have dogs in their breeding program sired by Allegre, a south american dog. Beth Johnson (Summit Goldens) also has Hero, my Kira's sire, who is a Hobo son but his dam is from south american lines. Hero has been bred a decent amount, not a ton, but you could also contact her to find out any litters he may have sired coming up.


Thanks, will look into them


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## Allie (Nov 30, 2008)

direct from their website -
"Nowadays our breeding stock is made of the best blood line from the United States and Canada, such as Nautius, Rush Hill’s, Woodspoint, Snowshoes and Summit’s, bringing to Brazil, and especially to Rio de Janeiro, the international quality for the Golden Retriever breed"
So, it appears that it's not a total Brazilian line? Am I interpreting this correctly?


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## Golden:) (Jul 6, 2012)

Allie said:


> direct from their website -
> "Nowadays our breeding stock is made of the best blood line from the United States and Canada, such as Nautius, Rush Hill’s, Woodspoint, Snowshoes and Summit’s, bringing to Brazil, and especially to Rio de Janeiro, the international quality for the Golden Retriever breed"
> So, it appears that it's not a total Brazilian line? Am I interpreting this correctly?


Not completely. Some of them are imports and completely "American", but they do have dogs from Brazilian lines which I like better than there "American" dogs.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

Blue goes back to Nautilus Fox Mulder as his grand-sire, who is from an American kennel, and dogs from Woodspoint, which is also an American kennel. And his sire is also from American lines. What are you seeing as "Brazilian lines"?


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Yeah, "Brazilian lines" just go back to American lines. I'm unaware of any that are purely Brazilian in the first 5 generations or so.

American breeders who have traded with Brazilian breeders would be De La Vega, GoldenGael, Questan, Wonderlands, and many other small time breeders in Florida who have bred to the above's stud dogs. Alegre and Simba are big name goldens who were popular US studs/show dogs and now reside in Brazil. They all go back to mainly Nautilus. Beth Johnson (Summit) has bred a bit with Brazilian dogs and/or imported dogs there. Best of luck.


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

And also Crush is being used more now. His brother, Michael has been used a few times also. Florida dogs...but does go back to american dogs....


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

And if you are concerned about missing clearances in American pedigrees, check the 5-generation hip pedigrees of the South American dogs before you make up your mind. Some have them, some don't-it is an entirely different ball game down there and it all depends on your comfort level.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

It looks like the kennel you really like had a lot of Nautilus dogs in the pedigree. Have you looked at their website?


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## Golden:) (Jul 6, 2012)

After much thought I will not be importing from Brazil. I'm afraid it just would be too hard on the puppy and not fair to her.


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

Are you looking for a pet quality or show quality puppy? You have yet to share where you're located. I'm sure the forum could point you in the correct direction. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Golden:) (Jul 6, 2012)

CarolinaCasey said:


> Are you looking for a pet quality or show quality puppy? You have yet to share where you're located. I'm sure the forum could point you in the correct direction.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


 I would like show quality so that I have the option of getting some show experience down the road. I'm in Ohio, but am willing to drive/fly anywhere in the states. Although I understand that color isn't everything, I would really like a dark gold in color, but still from conformation lines.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

Dogs with a lot of Rush Hill Haagen Dazs in them tend to be a darker color. Look at Kirby and see if that might be what you are looking for.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

Nancy Gratiot of Nalyns Goldens in Madison bred to a Brazilian boy with puppies due in May, you might want to check with her.

Nalyns Goldens Golden Retrievers - Home Page


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## MyBentley (May 5, 2009)

Glad to hear you will find a puppy in the U.S. You may be over-thinking the whole issue. There are plenty of well-bred golden retrievers in the U.S. that have all the appropriate health clearances and have varying shades of coat. You'll never be able to guarantee that you get a puppy that will be a successful show dog or never have health problems. I hope you can find some pleasure in the process and not stress too much on finding the perfect one.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

There is a handsome sweet CH dog from Brazil right in my town in Maine flown in from Goldentrip. However, he is bred from Nautilus lines which are just a few hours away in MA.


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## Katnip (Aug 13, 2018)

Tahnee GR said:


> Nancy Gratiot of Nalyns Goldens in Madison bred to a Brazilian boy with puppies due in May, you might want to check with her.
> 
> Nalyns Goldens Golden Retrievers - Home Page


Nancy Gratiot, aka Nalyn's Golden, is a very unethical breeder. She has a scam that she has used over and over to try to maximize her money. She has you fill out a questionnaire in which she asks many things ie your yard, family, and also if you plan on using a specific dog food that she lists. I wrote down that I did not plan on using it. She took the $300 downpayment and was all nice that day. I was supposed to get one ofn the puppies from the litter she just had. However, after that, things went downhill. She then insists that you HAVE to use a specific dog food for two years and also many supplements of which she then gets a kickback from. Even before we got into the issue of the dog food, her niceness dropped after she got the money. When I asked about a puppy as she kept having litters (3 of them!) and I wasn't getting one, she wanted me to then sign a contract for the dog food and all the supplements. I would not do so. Then it was that she was getting first choice of a show dog and I would not have one, and every excuse under the sun. You could never pin her down on a dog after that. I then found out that she has been doing this same scam over and over and over to people and just keeping their money. She became extremely hostile and unpleasant in her emails. I was unreal. She would not talk on the phone. She shut the door in my face when I went to the house. 

The dogs are kept in kennels all the time. One was in a kennel too small for it. Unlike other places where the dogs are a part of the family, this is a home where the dogs are really about making money only...and then extra money with the dog food/supplements kickback. It's not personable and nice as it should be. It becomes stressful and she is extremely rude and dishonest. I found reviews on her afterwards that I wish I would have seen beforehand. I have kept in touch with the breeders and rescues of other dogs that I have had and they have been such good experiences. This one was completely the opposite. I would recommend going to someone who is not so unethical and mean.


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## Jessjack (Aug 11, 2019)

*Another bad experience with Nancy from Nalyns*



Katnip said:


> Nancy Gratiot, aka Nalyn's Golden, is a very unethical breeder. She has a scam that she has used over and over to try to maximize her money. She has you fill out a questionnaire in which she asks many things ie your yard, family, and also if you plan on using a specific dog food that she lists. I wrote down that I did not plan on using it. She took the $300 downpayment and was all nice that day. I was supposed to get one ofn the puppies from the litter she just had. However, after that, things went downhill. She then insists that you HAVE to use a specific dog food for two years and also many supplements of which she then gets a kickback from. Even before we got into the issue of the dog food, her niceness dropped after she got the money. When I asked about a puppy as she kept having litters (3 of them!) and I wasn't getting one, she wanted me to then sign a contract for the dog food and all the supplements. I would not do so. Then it was that she was getting first choice of a show dog and I would not have one, and every excuse under the sun. You could never pin her down on a dog after that. I then found out that she has been doing this same scam over and over and over to people and just keeping their money. She became extremely hostile and unpleasant in her emails. I was unreal. She would not talk on the phone. She shut the door in my face when I went to the house.
> 
> The dogs are kept in kennels all the time. One was in a kennel too small for it. Unlike other places where the dogs are a part of the family, this is a home where the dogs are really about making money only...and then extra money with the dog food/supplements kickback. It's not personable and nice as it should be. It becomes stressful and she is extremely rude and dishonest. I found reviews on her afterwards that I wish I would have seen beforehand. I have kept in touch with the breeders and rescues of other dogs that I have had and they have been such good experiences. This one was completely the opposite. I would recommend going to someone who is not so unethical and mean.


Thank heavens for this forum. I have been looking for a nice dog for a while. I saw an add for her dogs on the AKC Marketplace and then checked out her website. She had a nice looking young show prospect available so I called her. She emailed me several times and her emails were very confusing. Not sure exactly if she was going to sell the girl I was interested in. She invited me to go see her dogs a couple of times but my inquiries about price and terms were never answered. She is about a 7 hour drive from me and I finally told her I needed to know how much she wanted and exactly which bitch I would be getting before I made the trip. Finally she told me she wanted $3400 and a total of 4 puppies back from 2 litters. She charges $2500 for a pup. This for a young girl who does not yet have her clearances. She gave me know information about whether this would be a co-ownership. I politely turned her down, but she kept emailing me.

While this was all going on, I started looking at the forum and am I glad I saw the reviews on Nancy Gratiot and Nalyns. She does have lovely dogs. After her last email, in which she insulted me and my dog, UKC Ch Taylormaid's Tipperary Purple (2000 - 2010) as being from inferior and unhealthy lines, I finally asked her, again politely, to please not email me anymore. So far, no more emails. 

She is so odd and I wonder if she may have some loss of mental capacity. I recommend staying away from her. Thanks Golden Retriever Forum!


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## Katnip (Aug 13, 2018)

Jessjack said:


> Thank heavens for this forum. I have been looking for a nice dog for a while. I saw an add for her dogs on the AKC Marketplace and then checked out her website. She had a nice looking young show prospect available so I called her. She emailed me several times and her emails were very confusing. Not sure exactly if she was going to sell the girl I was interested in. She invited me to go see her dogs a couple of times but my inquiries about price and terms were never answered. She is about a 7 hour drive from me and I finally told her I needed to know how much she wanted and exactly which bitch I would be getting before I made the trip. Finally she told me she wanted $3400 and a total of 4 puppies back from 2 litters. She charges $2500 for a pup. This for a young girl who does not yet have her clearances. She gave me know information about whether this would be a co-ownership. I politely turned her down, but she kept emailing me.
> 
> While this was all going on, I started looking at the forum and am I glad I saw the reviews on Nancy Gratiot and Nalyns. She does have lovely dogs. After her last email, in which she insulted me and my dog, UKC Ch Taylormaid's Tipperary Purple (2000 - 2010) as being from inferior and unhealthy lines, I finally asked her, again politely, to please not email me anymore. So far, no more emails.
> 
> She is so odd and I wonder if she may have some loss of mental capacity. I recommend staying away from her. Thanks Golden Retriever Forum!


I am glad you looked first. I don't understand her or her rudeness, but it seems that insulting people is a part of what she does. She insulted me also. I am glad you saw this before losing any money with her. Good luck on finding your dog.


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