# It's worse than I thought...(obedience)



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Do you use pop corrections? 

Because I would be setting him up inside the house (training around toys and treats on the floor, litter the floor with dots and fluff...) and train outside.


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## Laurie (Sep 20, 2009)

Sorry I'm no help but I will be watching the responses with interest.

Lincoln missed getting a Q at his first agility trial on Sunday because of his sniffing......some man commented at one of our regular agility classes that Lincoln's head must be heavy because his nose is always stuck to the ground!!!


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

My correction for sniffing is a bop on the nose.

Flip has a message he wanted me to pass along to Tag: "Dude, I'm telling you, ya better stop that sniffing stuff! Momma told me if I didn't stop she was going to cut off my balls....I thought she was just messin' with me, but she wasn't! Save yourself while you can!"


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Megora said:


> Do you use pop corrections?
> 
> Because I would be setting him up inside the house (training around toys and treats on the floor, litter the floor with dots and fluff...) and train outside.


Yes, I do use pop corrections.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

DNL2448 said:


> Yes, I do use pop corrections.


I had to ask, because sometimes I do barge in and tell people to give their dog a pop to make them knock something off, and then find out they are against all "aversive training". 

The other thing I do is put Jacks in a down stay next to something like a bologna sandwich to teach him a solid "no sniff" or leave it command. If he sniffs, I will lightly pinch his nose and tell him "no sniff". 

I know people to bop the muzzle, or flick the nose, or pinch so there is a reaction... but I think it depends on your dog and how stubborn he is.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Loisiana said:


> My correction for sniffing is a bop on the nose.
> 
> Flip has a message he wanted me to pass along to Tag: "Dude, I'm telling you, ya better stop that sniffing stuff! Momma told me if I didn't stop she was going to cut off my balls....I thought she was just messin' with me, but she wasn't! Save yourself while you can!"


I told him, and he kinda smirked. Dooley on the other hand went to the corner and made himself very, very small. (That's tough for a 72 lb dog). Breeze, I swear, had a little glimmer in her eye .


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Does it make any difference if you give him 15 mins to sniff up lots of environmental DNA (walking around with him on-leash) *before* you ask him to start working?


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

FlyingQuizini said:


> Does it make any difference if you give him 15 mins to sniff up lots of environmental DNA (walking around with him on-leash) *before* you ask him to start working?


No. I let him walk around while I am setting up things for Dooley (jumps and what not).


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## Laurie Falter (Sep 26, 2011)

Another thing to keep in mind is that sniffing is often a stress signal.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

gonegold said:


> Another thing to keep in mind is that sniffing is often a stress signal.


That is possible, though not likely. Everything I have done thus far has been very fun and upbeat, really nothing stressful, just puppy stuff.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

gonegold said:


> Another thing to keep in mind is that sniffing is often a stress signal.


That's basically what I was going to suggest. It's a calming signal and it could be that maybe that specific exercise stresses him out for some reason. I know that's when Danny gets into deep sniffing of the ground, but it took me a while to figure it out.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

fostermom said:


> That's basically what I was going to suggest. It's a calming signal and it could be that maybe that specific exercise stresses him out for some reason. I know that's when Danny gets into deep sniffing of the ground, but it took me a while to figure it out.


Does he look wide-eyed or anxious though? 

I'm only asking because with these goldens - they love air sniffing, sniffing the floor, sniffing at their neighbors (especially if they are in a lineup for stays), sniffing the judge, sniffing the gate, sniffing the tape and dots that judges put on the floor to mark where they intend to give commands...

And it's a bit more excessive if you have an intact male dog, because they are that much into checking out everyone and everything.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Tag doesn't have a anxious bone in his body. Life is a big party. He is still at the "everything" goes in his mouth stage, hence part of the problem, I'm thinking he's looking for something to eat. I am suprised we haven't had to do surgery to remove something already.


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

Baxter is a big time sniffer when he is unsure of what is being asked of him. Perhaps there isn't a clear communication of what you are asking of your dog. Or it could be that you need to back up a bit.

Denise Fenzi had me walk into Baxter's space until there is no room left for him to sniff, then reboot and begin in small increments.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

DNL2448 said:


> No. I let him walk around while I am setting up things for Dooley (jumps and what not).


What if you tried making it more formal ... as in, you were involved. He's leashed and you're walking around together and it's very clear you're giving him permission to be a dog and sniff at that moment? Put it on cue. "Free" or "Go sniff" or whatever.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

I'd try doing a few mins of leashed, allowable sniffing, then play with something like this:

Finn – choosing to work « Denise Fenzi


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

I'll try that. I'm also going to try just hanging out and whenever he offers me any voluntary eye contact I'll reward him. I just can't see where the puppy stuff we have been doing...all with food.... is causing him to be confused or anxious. But who knows how he's wired at this age.

Stephanie THANK YOU! I just finished posting this and saw the video, exactly what I was going to do for Tag tonight! Nice to visualize it.


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## MarieP (Aug 21, 2011)

It sounds to me like you need to make this more formal. Does he know that a pop on the leash means look at you? I might even back way up and just start doing attention with him sitting in heel position or in front position. Start making the treat a reward versus a lure. Get his attention, if he looks away or sniffs or whatever, pop, he looks up, GOOD BOY! Treat, release, dance around. Then start again. I would treat sniffing just like any lack of attention. Now, I know that Tag is still young, but I think you should start asking more of him  Give him a little bit of responsibility. I don't think he is confused or anxious. I just don't think he knows that he HAS to pay attention because you haven't made it mandatory yet. 

Also, you say you use boring surfaces. I think it was Kate that said "set him up" with stuff on the ground. I think this is a great idea, but maybe not yet. I think that would force you to do way too much correcting at this early stage. I would work attention, attention, attention, starting at sitting, then moving. I have a one pop rule right now for Riot. Walk in a line, he breaks attention, pop, attention back, GOOD, release, and back to the start.

If Tag is paying attention, there is no way he can sniff at the same time


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Thanks Marie. I can get really, really good attention when he is sitting, even to the point of having food in both hands and raising them up and out like a clothes line, his attention is still on my face with complete eye contact. I release with "Yes" and praise. As soon as we break or start moving, nose goes to the ground.


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## MarieP (Aug 21, 2011)

DNL2448 said:


> Thanks Marie. I can get really, really good attention when he is sitting, even to the point of having food in both hands and raising them up and out like a clothes line, his attention is still on my face with complete eye contact. I release with "Yes" and praise. As soon as we break or start moving, nose goes to the ground.


Hmmm. What about when you having him sitting in heel position? I would be OK if he really wants to use his "free time" sniffing, but he better put his eyes back on me when I ask him to. Maybe that's where you need to start...? Allow him to sniff, stand by him, say his name, praise and treat for eyes (and nose) up, pop for failure, and then use the treat to "help him be right". I think it's hard to do it waiting for him to look up passively, especially since he has been pretty clear that sniffing is better than treats for him. He needs the aversion part too, I think. Just my thoughts.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I had to go hard on Flip - no sniffing allowed at all in a working environment. That is from the moment we enter the building/area.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Loisiana said:


> I had to go hard on Flip - no sniffing allowed at all in a working environment. That is from the moment we enter the building/area.


And the bops on the nose was all it took? I hope it's that easy. One thing I will say, the boy has got some extreme determination! Now if we can get it headed in the right direction.:crossfing


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## IndyDan (May 19, 2009)

A lot of great suggestions …
For me … the key issue is *focus*. And if you can find the secret … write a book. Every dog is different. 
First … stop it at the beginning. Learn the down stay position (command.) Any down time in the practice ring (or anywhere else), he is in the down stay position. If you let him wonder around, he will take advantage. Start out with short down stay (then reward) and work toward a longer period of time.
Another command to learn is “watch”. This is an ongoing process. I want his eyes on me at all times. You have to proof, proof and proof. Between exercises in Obedience, I use “watch” to reinforce his focus. One note: I never tell him twice after he has learned the watch command … it’s a correction.:uhoh: Use your correction method (a pop, squeeze, voice, evil eye, etc.).
I still struggle with focus; it’s a work in process. :crossfing
Watch a Golden OTCH dog; they all have learned to focus.


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

FlyingQuizini said:


> I'd try doing a few mins of leashed, allowable sniffing, then play with something like this:
> 
> Finn – choosing to work « Denise Fenzi


I love this Stephanie!


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

IndyDan said:


> A lot of great suggestions …
> For me … the key issue is *focus*. And if you can find the secret … write a book. Every dog is different.
> 
> Another command to learn is “watch”. This is an ongoing process. I want his eyes on me at all times. You have to proof, proof and proof. Between exercises in Obedience, I use “watch” to reinforce his focus. One note: I never tell him twice after he has learned the watch command … it’s a correction.:uhoh: Use your correction method (a pop, squeeze, voice, evil eye, etc.).
> ...


Nice explanation.. The watch me command is one I use all the time..


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Yes, "watch me" is my command for attention and to let them know we are going to work. Works for Dooley and Breeze...Tag, well he's getting better, his stationary attention is very good, it's when we are moving.

Michelle, HUGE CONGRATULATIONS on you and Titan's new title!


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

> I have tried variable surfaces as boring as I can find, short of bleaching the darn floors, he is still going to find something interesting.


Is this a puppy? If so, make yourself interesting: swerve, zigzag, but no pop corrections. When you get a few beautiful steps with nice attention, break out and hand target with him. Play lots of attention games to warm up. Whenever he sniffs/ is distracted, he has no idea what his interesting human might be doing. If he finds heel position with nice attention, he gets rewards, but if he hits the leash bc he's sniffing? Not your problem. Set up orange cones or chairs to do weaves and circles- he should never know where you'll go next so he has to pay attention. 

Cool video. We play lots of Choose to Heel with puppies in ten variations, and it gives that nice stylish quality to later attention heeling.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

DNL2448 said:


> And the bops on the nose was all it took? I hope it's that easy.


It depends on the situation. If I've given him an obedience command and he goes sniffing instead then I would correct the exercise he is failing to complete due to sniffing (for instance if I sent for a retrieve and he pauses to sniff a spot on the floor, then that is treated as failure to retrieve. If he were retrieving properly then he wouldn't have a chance to sniff).

True story about my Mr. Sniffer:

Last weekend in July. At a match, Flip breaks his stay three times to sniff dogs next to him. In novice, as soon as I leave him on his stand his nose hits the floor. In utility on signals he does his recall while his nose is on the floor. Runs out to glove, sniffs floor rather than get glove. Next day in trial in grad. open he runs and takes glove, puts it down to sniff floor, picks glove back up, runs along side of ring sniffing the wall, pauses to sniff steward before bringing me the glove. On a finish he stops to sniff gate before coming to heel.

Life for Flip changes immediately. No more pulling on leash, EVER. No more sniffing in working environment, EVER. Neutered.

Fast forward two and a half months, the boy's first time back out. He was entered in 3 match runs and entered 6 times in the trial. Not one single sniff in any of those 9 times in the ring.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Not ready to neuter him...yet. But the rules will change starting now, baby steps though.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

DNL2448 said:


> Not ready to neuter him...yet. But the rules will change starting now, baby steps though.


Maybe I'm a softy, but I would try the ideas from Stephanie and Ljilly first in case he is showing stress by offering calming signals and if that doesn't work, try something else. If he's showing stress, whacking him on the nose will only make this worse and you could change his attitude completely and end up with a dog who can't compete.

And Danny is my Peter Pan who has never grown up and isn't a stressed or fearful dog. But every once in a while he gets totally spooked, I have no idea what sets it off, but I am beginning to think it's been the leftover smell of coyotes. The only other time he's done the deep snuffling is when we were in an agility class during the time we were having tile laid at the house. I think that between the compressor running, the banging and all the stuff out of place, he was stressed, then I was asking him to do even more stuff out of his comfort zone. He shut down on me in the last class and I had to break things all the way down to basics (his third agility class, he already had the basics down) and get him to succeed in a couple of easy jumps and he finally snapped out of it.


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