# Hunt test or field trial blind scoring question



## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

Im not a judge nor am I experienced enough to know how the judge grades a blind but I was talking to the master judge that was helping me Saturday about Katniss' blinds since she is not a good liner. He said that he doesn't care how well she lines. He cares about how under control she is and if she takes the casts I give her. He said in a Master test if she ping pongs back and forth but takes every cast and sit then he might mark her down one point if any compared to a dog that takes a better line with only one handle. He said if she doesn't take the whistles and casts then that is always a mark off with each one. 
Now this goes back to a senior blind I ran Katniss on last spring. The judge there was frustrated that I sat her right next to the blind because she had lined the blind and went right to the bird. Now, I'm blind as a bat and there was a mound right in front of the bird and I couldn't tell if she was on the bird or behind it and I didn't want her to hunt for it so I stopped her. She took the sit and it was funny the judges both let out an audible ugh why did you sit her! I asked why and they said no the bird is right by her feet so I just whistled her to get it and come in. They didn't mark her down as she took my whistle. The judges told me that was pretty risky as if she hadn't sat they would have had to mark her down and that beautiful water blind. So we got into the question of which is better, a hunt or slipped whistle. The judges said it really goes both ways as far as a mark down. 
So they said you really need to know your dog. If the dog has lots of control and you feel it will sit on the whistle then it is better to do so then letting it hunt it up. On the other hand if you think it will slip the whistle then let it hunt at the very end and hope it's a small enough hunt that the judges might not really notice and you don't get marked down.

on a side note, I might get the biggest prize for changing your life completely for dog events. Since I want to try this field, I'm looking at getting Lasik for my vision! Seriously!


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

MOP,
Get LASIK! I went from being legally blind 20-500 and being at a complete loss if I couldn't find my glasses. To 20-80. I still have to wear glasses, but if fell out of our raft, I could find the shore and survive. Without that surgery I would have died if I fell out of our raft. I am so much more comfortable at night in a tent in the summer in bear country if I need to grab a gun, before it was I hoped Cody is quick, cause I'm not going to be able to find that dang gun if it's under my sleeping bag. So I look at getting lasik as personal safety.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

The easiest way to understand scoring of blinds is judges are keeping track of refusals. If the dog did not respond or showed poor response to the handlers command it will be marked down in score. Enough refusals and your day is done. 

Whistle refusals are obvious and straight forward to score.

Cast refusals are more difficult. Did the handler try to challenge the line to the blind? Did the dog make progress toward the blind with the cast? Did the dog take and carry the cast?


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Ok, so what about that dog that sees the bumper and leaps for it instead of sitting on the whistle? Sometimes the dog is 10' or 20' away and just goes for it? Are they docked for that?


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Alaska7133 said:


> Ok, so what about that dog that sees the bumper and leaps for it instead of sitting on the whistle? Sometimes the dog is 10' or 20' away and just goes for it? Are they docked for that?


If the handler blew the whistle the dog may get dinged a little bit for slipping the whistle. Is that little ding important? That depends upon the performance during the rest of the blind. Picking up the bird in the last ten feet is usually minor in relation to the other 90% of the blind.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I have been told to train that sit means sit, regardless of whether the dog knows where the bird is or not. If the whistle blows, the dog sits, even if he sits right next to the bird.
The reasoning is that knowing where the bird is is the first step that comes right before *thinking* he knows where the bird is. Sometimes they see a clump of mud or something and think it's the bird. Then you get a dog who is blowing off a whistle.


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

Alaska7133 said:


> So when running a blind at a hunt test, you blow that whistle, your dog doesn't sit because it smells the bird. Instead it leaps for the bird. I've seen this happen, the handler covers by whistling quickly a come in whistle. So how is that scored? I see a lot of odd things when running blinds. Dogs not taking a back, instead going over. Or other miscues. How are those scored? Any thoughts out there about what things when running a blind will cause you to be scored up or down?


In field trials, my experience:

Let's say pup's closing in on the bird at about 100 mph, and he's 15 feet away from it, and the handler fails to blow a "check whistle" and the dog flies past the blind ... that's a huge "H.E." (i.e. Handler Error) and the dog most often has a hard time recovering. Blowing that check whistle is good handling...the dog will be called back if the other parts of the blind are acceptable even if the dog doesn't stop on that check whistle and instead picks up the bird.

If the dog is, let's say 5 yards from the bird on the downwind side, and the handler blows the whistle just as the dog winds the bird and the dog proceeds to pick up the bird without stopping ... that, alone, will probably not cause the dog to be dropped.

Some things that will get you excused from the remainder of the trial:

Multiple whistle refusals
Multiple cast refusals
Drifting too far off line
Avoiding rough going (if the rough going is on line)
"Banana-ing" a blind (same as drifting too far off line)
An extraordinarily high number of whistles (when other dogs completed the blind with far fewer whistles)
Popping
Failure to go
Picking up a poison bird
> etc.

FTGoldens


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

hotel4dogs said:


> I have been told to train that sit means sit, regardless of whether the dog knows where the bird is or not. If the whistle blows, the dog sits, even if he sits right next to the bird.
> The reasoning is that knowing where the bird is is the first step that comes right before *thinking* he knows where the bird is. Sometimes they see a clump of mud or something and think it's the bird. Then you get a dog who is blowing off a whistle.


This is GOOD training.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Pouncing on the bird right as a handler blows a check-down whistle is not a big deal at all. Blowing the whistle repeatedly as the dog says "screw you" and hunts up the bird at the end of the blind....not good. However sometimes judges like to cram the bird in the middle of a bunch of cover, or the bird boy isn't consistent about where they are setting the bird, obviously the handler does not have the ability to control the dog 100% because they don't know exactly where the bird is...the dog will end up hunting it up at the very end because they are the one with the nose on their face. This is purely a judgement call. If a dog hunts for 3 seconds and finds it, then fine. If the dog hunts for 30 seconds while the handler sits on the whistle, then you just let your dog hunt up the blind which isn't good.
I see many people that ALLOW their dog to hunt it up on blinds in training. The dog gets this expectation of putting their nose down and going autopilot when they hear the whistle. One of the MANY reasons why I like using a blind stake OR white bumpers at the blind --- avoid hunting by the dog because they immediately see the blind when they get to it. (But not so obvious that they see it when leaving the handler's side or en route.) 
You should also have practiced sit whistles near the pile when you did pile work.

A cast refusal is if the dog is given a cast and it does not make progress to the blind. The judges are to watch THE DOG --- not the handler. But if the dog is given a command by the handler, regardless of the command, and does not make progress to the blind, that is a cast refusal. You will get LOTS of leniency on cast refusals at Senior, less so at Master. A dog may have a few cast refusals and still pass because overall their progress and teamwork was good. 

The more tests you run the more you will start to understand what the judges are looking for. You are at liberty to ask the judges to give you an explanation of your dog's score sheet at the end of the day, and that can be very illuminating because handlers tend to remember all the good stuff their dog did and not the bad stuff 

If you feel your dog has a weakness in its training (i.e. slipping whistles and/or going into hunt mode on blinds) then do not enter a test until you've overcome that. Be proud of your training and hard work and let that show at a test....don't just enter and hope for easy judges....


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