# dog food ratings



## TonyRay (Feb 5, 2008)

Someone sent us the site that analysis different dog foods http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/
and we noticed that Iams weight control is only a 1 star rating out of 6 stars..
Don't know if in small part helps contribute to our girls weight but wasn't too happy to see the ratings..
Have to look for a newer weight control for large dogs like possibly Canidae...
We have cut back on the dry for now and fill in with stringbeans for Karmin & Savannah Mae


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## gold'nchocolate (May 31, 2005)

I haven't really ever heard anything good about Iams. Canidae is a good food and I don't find that it's any more expensive than some of the other better quality dog foods. It's rated 5 stars. You could probably just go with the regular Canidae because it doesn't have all of the empty calories from the "fillers" in the cheaper food--you get more for your buck. You will find that there is less poop too since it's digested better. Good luck with whatever you choose.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

With a high quality food like canidae or Eagle Pack holistic you'll be feeding less as there are more (quality) calories per cup. You'll be giving a much better quality food with less additives and no carcinogenic preservatives. Another source for good info on quality kibbles is the Feb issue of Whole Dog Journal. You may also want to look at www.greatdanelady.com Linda Arndt is a retired professor from Ball State, a former great dane breeder and an animal nutritionist. She has alot of articles covering a ton of topics.


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## TonyRay (Feb 5, 2008)

It seem that Canidae is not easily available in stores.
mostly online ...?


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

Not all people are sold on that ratings. I personally think its mostly bs. You might do some research off of the holistic sites to get a better perspective.


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

Lucky's mom said:


> Not all people are sold on that ratings. I personally think its mostly bs. You might do some research off of the holistic sites to get a better perspective.


Where? I like to read as much as I can so any sites you know of that would have info would be great! I have books, but they are mostly in line with the dog food analysis theory of limited or no grains.


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

I would like to see a site that shared info about the origins of the ingredients. My main concern is that I don't want road-kill or poor quality ingredients in the food I feed. I worry about that more than I do the grain thing. I like to use foods that use "human-grade" ingredients if at all possible. It just happens that many of those are in the grain-free category. Do any of the "big" dog food companies offer products with human-grade ingredients?


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## LOVEisGOLDEN (Jan 4, 2008)

TonyRay said:


> It seem that Canidae is not easily available in stores.
> mostly online ...?


we buy our Canidae ALS online at www.petfooddirect.com they have good prices, excellent sales (sign up for one of their promotions, something to give them your email, & they will send you great coupons!) and decent shipping. our last bag was $51 (40 lbs.) Layla absolutely loves it & I love their auto ship program, never have to worry about running out!


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Sunshine Goldens said:


> I like to use foods that use "human-grade" ingredients if at all possible. It just happens that many of those are in the grain-free category. Do any of the "big" dog food companies offer products with human-grade ingredients?


There is no such thing as "Human Grade". The Human Grade crap is nothing but marketing spin. USDA lables potential ingredients "Fit" for human consumption or "Unfit" for human consumption. 

All petfood companies can slap a "Human Grade" lable on their products, because it isn't part of the USDA or FDA rating system.


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

Swampcollie said:


> There is no such thing as "Human Grade". The Human Grade crap is nothing but marketing spin. USDA lables potential ingredients "Fit" for human consumption or "Unfit" for human consumption.
> 
> All petfood companies can slap a "Human Grade" lable on their products, because it isn't part of the USDA or FDA rating system.


Huh. Never knew that! Where do you find this stuff??


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

Swampcollie said:


> There is no such thing as "Human Grade". The Human Grade crap is nothing but marketing spin. USDA lables potential ingredients "Fit" for human consumption or "Unfit" for human consumption.
> 
> All petfood companies can slap a "Human Grade" lable on their products, because it isn't part of the USDA or FDA rating system.


I wonder then why all the dog food companies don't just slap that on their bags? If there really is no difference between feed-grade and human-grade or human-quality ingredients you'd think they'd all be using that as a marketing strategy.


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

OK, this may be more in keeping with what I am looking for in a dog food:

*Human grade ingredients* (USDA approved). This item is somewhat controversial, as dog foods by law cannot be labeled human grade, but I look for companies that use human grade meats (not meats that were rejected by the human food industry). For even higher quality, look for hormone- and antibiotic-free meats, especially those that are free-range or pasture-raised (note that all poultry is hormone-free, as it is against regulations to give hormones to poultry).


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## 3 goldens (Sep 30, 2005)

With the dog food recalls I learned a lot about these companies. I honeslty don't think we wever know the whole truth. Like some that swore they used only American grown ingredients had to recall becaue of gluton from China. On the all breed forum i visit pretty often, nutrition is probably the biggest topic and there are so real "food snobs' there. They are always digging and trying to find dirt on companies like purina and Science Diet--and have hae found some in their most "bragged about" foods. Like when they were trying to find out where Timber Wolf organic was made, TWO would not reveal their manufacturing place. I had been told had I been feeding Timber Worlf of my irish Setter he would not have developed bone cancer! Timber Wolf was made with all organ stuff. Not True, they had to drop that that part of their title because they do not use organic stuff. Also they had ingredeints in there not listed on their list--like chicken fat, and ones listed that were not in it. Claimed they were using "old bags' when changes ere made--like up to over a year ago. Many w4e upset to find they were not giving their dogs what they thought they were. This is just a couple of examples.

My Honey is purina one--i hve fed purina for 51 years and always had healthy long lived dogs barring something like proheart taking Hunter at 4. Even my irish Setter that developed bone cancer was 12 1/2 when he came down with it. We hunted settes and pointers into old age, one as late as 15. my Honey is doing great on purian one. However, i do have kayCee on Taste of the Wild as it is high protein and no grain, which is best for her joints which at 8 1/2 and two knee surgeries has to have arthritis.

Aso. on that all bred forum, some dogs can't handle premuim good--end up with runny poop, throwing up, gastric problems. Is just to rich for them. My Buck coudln't handle it either and he did grat on purina.

I think it all depends on the dog and there is no one right food nor one wrong food.

PS Just last week tons and groujd meat headed for schools was recalled because of the condition of the cattle, nany were down and loaded on fork lift to go into be made into ground beef. This makes me think human grade doesn't mean that much. No telling where all this goes on and is not caught.


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

I wonder are there ANY foods that would be considered "poor quality" by anyone? For those of you who are anti-WDJ or "grain-free" or whatever, is there a food you would consider to be one you wouldn't feed and why? Just curious. Say for instance, Alpo. I don't read anyone feeding that and I am wondering why not if there is no truth to those "premium" foods out there on the market.


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## DelmarvaGold (Mar 7, 2006)

If you type in the code GEICO at checkout time you will get 20% off your entire order. This is for Petfood Direct.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Sunshine Goldens said:


> I wonder are there ANY foods that would be considered "poor quality" by anyone? For those of you who are anti-WDJ or "grain-free" or whatever, is there a food you would consider to be one you wouldn't feed and why?


WDJ and dogfoodwhateveritis.com rate foods based upon how well a food adheres to the authors philosophical perspectives about feeding, not on nutrition or nutritional efficiency of a product. Their rating system is in fact based more upon theology than nutrition.

Those that don't follow the WDJ nonsense measure "Quality" based upon the results delivered when feeding a product. When you're only measuring results delivered without considering the theological nonsense, you get a good handle on what works and what doesn't.

There are a lot of dogs that do very well and live long healthy lives eating nothing but Tuffies, Alpo or Ol Roy, but from a results oriented standpoint they are not very effective foods as you have to feed mountains of the stuff to meet the nutritional demands of the dog. These foods are in fact VERY expensive to feed because the mileage received is so poor. 

Usually about this time someone will chime in that foods with grains "Cause" allergies. This is another myth that simply isn't true. According to the AVMA actual "Food Allergies" in dogs are extremely "Rare". 

Where allergies in animals are concerned, people need to understand that the food doesn't "Cause" the allergy. Allergies are a function of a weak or malfunctioning immune system and the cause is usually an inherited problem based in genetics.

Special diets and supplements can help to bolster a weak or malfuctioning immune system, but you need to undertand that the underlying problem rests with the dog itself and the special diet is helping the dog to live a normal life. They are not a cure for the poor genetic hand the dog was dealt in life, nor are they a basis upon which to claim that they are superior products because they helped my dog with allergies feel better.

Superior nutrition is measured by the results delivered and you simply can't forecast the outcome by reading a lable on the bag, or by reading a theology based ranking list. You're going to have to look at real dogs and ask questions of the owners of numerous dogs who are healthy, look great, and are performing well.


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

Swampcollie said:


> WDJ and dogfoodwhateveritis.com rate foods based upon how well a food adheres to the authors philosophical perspectives about feeding, not on nutrition or nutritional efficiency of a product. Their rating system is in fact based more upon theology than nutrition.
> 
> Those that don't follow the WDJ nonsense measure "Quality" based upon the results delivered when feeding a product. When you're only measuring results delivered without considering the theological nonsense, you get a good handle on what works and what doesn't.
> 
> ...


I find it puzzling that you can call what anyone who follows "WDJ-ish" feeding philosophies "nonsense", but noses get out of joint if someone subscribing to that philosophy say foods which are not "premium" are "crap"(or something to that effect as has been suggested was done in the past by WDJ-ish feeders). I truly am interested in learning more about why people are feeding what they do. I have 7 dogs to feed and I'd rather not waste money on products which aren't effective. You lose me though the minute you attack what someone else believes or come across a wee bit defensive. Just being honest. I hope I don't come across that way when I share what I do with my own dogs, as I am no expert and am really trying to negotiate the dog food maze. If I have, I sincerely apologize.


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

I just got back from the vet's. I saw a vet who I normally don't see. We had an interesting discussion on food. I was bringing in my itchy girl to have a cyst looked at. The food she believes most in is Eukanuba. Does anyone here use that? She also felt that in terms of "hypo-allergenic" diets Royal Canin's are the one she feels are the best. Anyone here feed Royal Canin? We talked about WDJ-ish philosophies and she agreed with many of them and felt that a balance is most beneficial. 

A really interesting thing she shared was that when you are giving oil supplements for inflammation, you have to have a 5:1 ratio of 3 to 6 (I think it's 3:6...and not 6:3...). If that ratio isn't met she said you aren't actually getting an anti-inflammatory effect. That was something I never heard before! Anyone know anything about that? 

So the dog food mazes gets even MORE confusing!!


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

TonyRay said:


> It seem that Canidae is not easily available in stores.
> mostly online ...?


Many training centers who have stores, feed supply stores, and online companies, sell Canidae.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

TonyRay said:


> It seem that Canidae is not easily available in stores.
> mostly online ...?


Many training centers who have stores, feed supply stores, and online companies like Petfooddirect, sell Canidae.

Lisa, my sister took her dog off Of Eukenuba. I don't know why.


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## kalkid (Feb 22, 2007)

Kimm said:


> Many training centers who have stores, feed supply stores, and online companies, sell Canidae.


Yeah they have a ton of distributors. Just do a store locator and punch in your zip code on their website. It's just not sold at the big chains. Eagle Pack has a large distribution network as well. Same process for locating stores, different website obviously.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

If Dh hasnt been out west lately to bring it home in bulk.... I buy it from here in Bulk.....Cheapest I have found.....http://www.petpointe.com Look in the buying in bulk part....


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

Kimm said:


> Lisa, my sister took her dog off Of Eukenuba. I don't know why.


Ugh! It's so confusing!!!!!!!!! My guys all seem to be doing great right now. We rotate TWO, THK, Canidae, Wellness Core and Wellness Fish and Sweet Potato. My itchy-scratchy girl is on Wellness Venison and Rice. I wanted to give that a try. What "feels" best feeding them is THK, BUT when I read about how well other people's dogs are doing on other foods which are less expensive, I wonder if I am throwing money out the window. :uhoh:


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

Maggies mom said:


> If Dh hasnt been out west lately to bring it home in bulk.... I buy it from here in Bulk.....Cheapest I have found.....http://www.petpointe.com Look in the buying in bulk part....


 
Ooo Mary - GREAT LINK! That 5 bag bulk deal is REALLY GOOD! I haven't looked at shipping yet but that price grabbed my attention!

Rats...just calculated shipping which would be over $70 for me.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

Sunshine Goldens said:


> Ooo Mary - GREAT LINK! That 5 bag bulk deal is REALLY GOOD! I haven't looked at shipping yet but that price grabbed my attention!


It goes by your area..and I get 5- 40lbs bags plus shipping for 175.00.. and they say ups but mine comes fed ex and they drop it right on the front porch.... Its still about 8 dollars a bag cheaper than if I purchased here at a store....


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

In regards to the original questions dogfoodanalysis.com is a good information base and can easily allow you to wrap your brain around the concept of dog food. As for their ratings I find the tend to prefer and are biased to grain free foods. Like if you stick Grain-Free on the you get 6 stars which I don't like. Grain-free foods don't work for some and food containing grain don't work for some. You have to find your own dogs star rated food.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Sunshine Goldens said:


> Ugh! It's so confusing!!!!!!!!! My guys all seem to be doing great right now. We rotate TWO, THK, Canidae, Wellness Core and Wellness Fish and Sweet Potato. My itchy-scratchy girl is on Wellness Venison and Rice. I wanted to give that a try. What "feels" best feeding them is THK, BUT when I read about how well other people's dogs are doing on other foods which are less expensive, I wonder if I am throwing money out the window. :uhoh:


I would stick with whatever food gives you the best results. It's expensive, I know. I may have sample packets at home I can send you. I just have to check the expiration dates.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Sunshine Goldens said:


> I find it puzzling that you can call what anyone who follows "WDJ-ish" feeding philosophies "nonsense", but noses get out of joint if someone subscribing to that philosophy say foods which are not "premium" are "crap"(or something to that effect as has been suggested was done in the past by WDJ-ish feeders). I truly am interested in learning more about why people are feeding what they do. I have 7 dogs to feed and I'd rather not waste money on products which aren't effective. You lose me though the minute you attack what someone else believes or come across a wee bit defensive. Just being honest. I hope I don't come across that way when I share what I do with my own dogs, as I am no expert and am really trying to negotiate the dog food maze. If I have, I sincerely apologize.


It's not puzzling at all. 

My background is in engineering. I look for things that can be quantified through science and mathmatics. Nutrients in various foods are measured in useable molecules of protein, fat and carbohydrate that are available for use by the dog. That's it, straight up, no hocus pocus or potificating based upon theology. 

If the essential amino acids are there in sufficient quantities it doesn't matter whether they came from chicken, fish, corn, chicken fat gooseberries or dead skunk lying next to the road (although most dogs would probably prefer the skunk). 

I have great dislike for the outright misrepresentations that often appear on this board and others that state that foods from the WDJ list are "Superior" to some others, when there is not one shred of scientific evidence to back that claim up. Those rankings are based upon "opinions" derived from a philosophy that a non-traditional wholistic approach to pet care is the way to go. Foods and products that cater to the philosophy receive high marks, those that don't receive low scores. Actual nutrition delivered doesn't rule the day, philosophically held beliefs, i.e. "Theology" rules the day and drives the rankings. 

I will be the first to admit that the highest rated foods on those lists are adequate diets, but are they truly "superior" diets as many believe? No, I don't believe they are based upon direct experience with them, and they can not provide ANY kind of scientific basis upon which to prove their superiority. That is why the authors of dogfoodwhateveritis.com state that the rankings of the products on their site are purely the "Opinion" of the author. The same applies to the rankings in the WDJ, they are based upon "Opinion" not science.


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## kalkid (Feb 22, 2007)

What do you know, another food thread gone awry.


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

Swampcollie said:


> It's not puzzling at all.
> 
> My background is in engineering. I look for things that can be quantified through science and mathmatics. Nutrients in various foods are measured in useable molecules of protein, fat and carbohydrate that are available for use by the dog. That's it, straight up, no hocus pocus or potificating based upon theology.
> 
> ...


I absolutely hear what you are saying in this post re: the science. And believe me, I have thought about things you have posted before regarding nutrition. That's why I continue to ask questions. Lately I have seen though more derogatory comments directed at people who follow a more "holistic" approach, yet the "mainstream" feeders continue to talk about being abused! I am beginning to think the "mainstream" dog food feeders are just as self-righteous as they claim the "holistic" feeders are! 

Nutrition is a complicated subject. I think of human nutrition too...and when you apply some of the principles of "good" human nutrition (all-natural foods vs synthetic, fresh vs processed, etc.) I can see the logic in making similar choices for our dogs. That is not to say dogs are like humans, but there IS a difference between the nutrients offered from fresh foods vs. processed foods.


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## msdogs1976 (Dec 21, 2007)

Swampcollie said:


> It's not puzzling at all.
> 
> My background is in engineering. I look for things that can be quantified through science and mathmatics. Nutrients in various foods are measured in useable molecules of protein, fat and carbohydrate that are available for use by the dog. That's it, straight up, no hocus pocus or potificating based upon theology.
> 
> ...


Ok, give the masses here a few suggestions on brands you can buy at a reasonable price. What do you feed your dog?


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

msdogs1976 said:


> Ok, give the masses here a few suggestions on brands you can buy at a reasonable price. What do you feed your dog?


I've gone out of my way to not name one brand or another. I think companies like Nestle Purina, Iams, Nutro, Hills and others offer some products that are very good foods, that are often nutritionally superior to the offerings of many other companies. The point is to look beyond the marketing spin, no matter which side it comes from and look for proven successful results over the long term. 

I feed my dogs and my training dogs products that deliver superior health, nice skin and coat, clean teeth, clear eyes, low incidence of injury, and lots of energy and stamina. I don't add supplements because a good food should provide everything a normal healthy dog needs. 

If you have a normal healthy dog and have to add supplements to the dogs' diet, you may want to consider looking for a better food.


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## Sophie's slave (Jul 1, 2007)

I'll weigh in a bit here. I feed Sophie Canidae, but will soon be putting her back on Wellness because she just does better on it. I think that the bottom line here is to look at your dog. Is she healthy, bright-eyed, shiny and happy? Is her stool firm and well formed? Then, chances are, you're feeding her something good. I tend to feed, and endorse, foods that show up on the WDJ's list, but it's not my bible. Do your research, read this board, check with friends whose dogs are healthy, and form your own opinion. I do absolutely feel that the quality of the ingredients in a food is measured by results and that sources of proteins, amino acids, etc., is important and does matter. We can get those things from McDonald's or from eating healthy foods - which is better? It's the same with our dogs. :wave:


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

I am going to SERIOUSLY look into some of the foods that are fed by those of you on here who breed, train, trial, etc. So far what I am reading is Purina ProPlan and Eukanuba are the most widely used by those who breed or show. I'm just talking that over with hubby who is right here. I looked back through the threads and something PG said struck me - ProPlan is used most widely by breeders at dog shows and it would be logical to think someone who is showing a dog and wants it to be in top performance wouldn't skimp out on something as essential as diet. That "argument" makes sense to us. So now Dave is asking "where do we go to read about those foods?" Any help there guys?? Is there something that compares the "mainstream" foods that we could look at?


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

I think it just depends on the dogs...... Maggie wouldnt eat Purina or Eukanuba and Hootie's coat went south on those foods..lost the shine and was very very dry..... Abbie and Cruiser were fine on it...But I didnt want to buy all kinds of different foods.... I still say you go with what works.....


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## AmyinAr (Feb 26, 2008)

TonyRay said:


> It seem that Canidae is not easily available in stores.
> mostly online ...?


try canidae.com and use their store locater, we have some specialty places that carry it for less than we could order it, it's worth a shot


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

Now my brain is running overtime! The studies that have been done by say, Purina or Euk...which of their foods were used in their longitudinal studies? I ask because the original formulas are still offered, but now there are all sorts of other varieties offered - so how do you know which one is better than the other? What makes ProPlan "better" than Dog Chow?

Can you tell I am SOOOOOOOOO confused!!?!??! Thanks in advance for anyone who cares to help me out!


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## Goldilocks (Jun 3, 2007)

FYI - Our breeder was feeding Proplan. When I got Pippa she was a complete yeast monster. Since putting her on only grain free foods, she has perfect skin, no stinkiness and no more ear infections. When I took her to the vet after bringing her home the first thing the vet asked was, "what are you feeding her"? I told her she had been on ProPlan but I was in the process of putting her on another food. She told me the yeast would clear up with the new food and it did - within a month.

I no longer have the Proplan bag here but there were some ingredients in there that were pretty iffy. I believe there is no claim of it being Ethoxyquin free and it has menadione in it. For more info go to http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=menadione


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## Thalie (Jan 20, 2008)

Sunshine Goldens said:


> What makes ProPlan "better" than Dog Chow?
> Can you tell I am SOOOOOOOOO confused!!?!??! Thanks in advance for anyone who cares to help me out!


May I propose another nutrition website to add to the confusion ?
http://www.dogfoodproject.com/

What I like about this one is that it does not only rate the foods but also explains in layman's (me) terms lots of things about nutrition. While the author has strong positions on some ingredients (e.g. menadione), she also takes the demon out of others (e.g. whole ground corn). My only small complaint is that the products list is not in any kind of alphabetical order, but the search feature works fine. Not all ingredients lists are perfectly up to date (you can see when the info was put in at the top of each post) but I find the overall info valuable and credible.

To answer your question about the 2 Purina products (ProPlan & DogChow), I would say after a quick glance that the fact that Proplan has a named animal protein source in first position would perhaps tend to make it a bit better than the DogChow, not much better but a little.


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

Sunshine Goldens said:


> Where? I like to read as much as I can so any sites you know of that would have info would be great! I have books, but they are mostly in line with the dog food analysis theory of limited or no grains.


If you google you can find other opinions, albeit most from the "enemy". But looking at both sides does give perspective. 

What sold me on Iams and Purina (and I''m sold...I admit it) was when I came across a very dry scientific study that covered 12 months, complete with control groups and an intense methodology. The study didn't state the food but listed the ingredients of the two foods involved (one was obviously Iams or Eukanuba and the other an Alpo type brand) and charted the results of two groups of dogs...one fed a food with animal based protien , the other group fed a food that based part of its protien on plant sources like corn glutin and soy. It evaluated the effects of shedding and skin health using a strict criteria. You couldn't help but look at this study in its raw form and know it was intent on finding real answers. I can't find that dang study now...have looked and looked. I don't think I was supposed to see it..perhaps its a purchased paper that I accidently came across it.


Its interesting to read up on the commercial dogfood research and compare that to what you read on dogfoodanalysis. Sorgum is considered a "filler" for instance in the holistic sites, but according to iams research it helps dogs metabalize calories better. I believe this is probably why both iams and Science Diet use it in their foods. Also according to Iams, certain grains react differently in the system some creating higher energy levels after eating. Holistic sites who don't do any research simply have "good" grains and "low quality" grains without coming up where they got this. 

Thats not to say Iams is the best food...it isn't. These companies make different levels of quality and they are going to make a reasonable profit on all of them. And frankly I can't stand Science Diet which I think has great research but goes cheap on the product. But I do have trust that these foods are "good" for my dog and you can see that there are research backing in the claims being made.

It all boils down to what entity you personally believe is credible. Because in the end it does come to trust.


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

Lucky's mom said:


> If you google you can find other opinions, albeit most from the "enemy". But looking at both sides does give perspective.
> 
> What sold me on Iams and Purina (and I''m sold...I admit it) was when I came across a very dry scientific study that covered 12 months, complete with control groups and an intense methodology. The study didn't state the food but listed the ingredients of the two foods involved (one was obviously Iams or Eukanuba and the other an Alpo type brand) and charted the results of two groups of dogs...one fed a food with animal based protien , the other group fed a food that based part of its protien on plant sources like corn glutin and soy. It evaluated the effects of shedding and skin health using a strict criteria. You couldn't help but look at this study in its raw form and know it was intent on finding real answers. I can't find that dang study now...have looked and looked. I don't think I was supposed to see it..perhaps its a purchased paper that I accidently came across it.
> 
> ...


THANK YOU!!!! I am as we speak, reading the AAFCO nutrient profile info. VERY exciting read...I am on pins and needles! :doh: I will admit that it's difficult for me to move away from the notion that specific/whole sources of the necessary nutrients are better. (like chicken vs chicken by-product) BUT I am not anti-grains. I probably have come across that way, but in fact I am not. I used to feed THK Verve which has grain, I feed Canidae which has grain, etc. I am more interested in the quality of the ingredients. I am very very puzzled by the discussion of "years of study" behind some of the big food companies but yet some of their products have been available for a short time. It's hard for me to accept a company that sells a lesser quality food (lets say Alpo for argument sake) at the same time selling what they label as "premium". It just seems like a contradiction to me. And which of the foods then were the focus of the study? you see what the hamster in my wheel is going through tonight???:bowl::bowl::bowl: At this stage in the game, I have no idea if I am even making sense!!!


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

Sunshine Goldens said:


> I wonder are there ANY foods that would be considered "poor quality" by anyone? For those of you who are anti-WDJ or "grain-free" or whatever, is there a food you would consider to be one you wouldn't feed and why? Just curious. Say for instance, Alpo. I don't read anyone feeding that and I am wondering why not if there is no truth to those "premium" foods out there on the market.


I do think Kibbles and Bits are the "McDonalds" for dogs. And Lucky's coat didn't look that great on it when I succumbed. It is infact his favorite. And he got fat and shabby in my opinon.

Lately I have been putting a small can of prime select Alpo in Lucky's bowl with his Iams because it has really helped his food aggression. I sit by him and stir it in as he's eating and it has done wonders to keep him from getting tense when we get around his bowl.


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

Lucky's mom said:


> I do think Kibbles and Bits are the "McDonalds" for dogs. And Lucky's coat didn't look that great on it when I succumbed. It is infact his favorite. And he got fat and shabby in my opinon.
> 
> Lately I have been putting a small can of prime select Alpo in Lucky's bowl with his Iams because it has really helped his food aggression. I sit by him and stir it in as he's eating and it has done wonders to keep him from getting tense when we get around his bowl.


What is it about Kibbles N Bits that makes you consider it "McDonalds" for dogs? Was there some ingredient that you didn't like? It's confusing to me because someone who feeds (for example) Orijen will consider Eukanuba to be a poor quality food, but someone who feeds Eukanuba considers Purina Dog Chow a poor quality food, and someone who feeds Dog Chow thinks Gainesburgers is a poor quality food...so I am having a hard time discerning what really makes a food poor quality.


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

Sunshine Goldens said:


> What is it about Kibbles N Bits that makes you consider it "McDonalds" for dogs? Was there some ingredient that you didn't like? It's confusing to me because someone who feeds (for example) Orijen will consider Eukanuba to be a poor quality food, but someone who feeds Eukanuba considers Purina Dog Chow a poor quality food, and someone who feeds Dog Chow thinks Gainesburgers is a poor quality food...so I am having a hard time discerning what really makes a food poor quality.


Kibbles and Bits didn't make Lucky look his best. And he absolutely went bonkers for it. So...I guess that's why I see it as "macdonalds".

Alpo, kibbles and bits and the other cheaper foods use Corn glutin and soy as opposed to all meat protein source and I think that brings the quality and price down more then anything (according to Iams). 

But besides that I'm not sure. Orijen has a white paper that says that commercial dog food companies like Eukanuba use corn as a protien source. But that's false. Corn glutin is a protien source but not ground corn. So I think their is alot of misconception going on.


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

Sunshine Goldens said:


> It's hard for me to accept a company that sells a lesser quality food (lets say Alpo for argument sake) at the same time selling what they label as "premium". It just seems like a contradiction to me.


Yep that's capitalism. I myself am a capitalist. I trust the system. But some people don't.......


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## kalkid (Feb 22, 2007)

I love these threads because everyone gets so into it. What I really find funny is many of us put a ton of thought into what we feed our dogs and ironically far less into what we feed our kids or ourselves. To me all this isn't much different than human nutrition and again ironically with many of the same questions. Are eggs good for you? Is it okay to eat red meat? yada yada. No doubt eating plain tuna, natural grains, organic vegetables, and anything else "healthy" seem good on paper. Of course there are tons of healthy people that eat fried foods and frozen pizzas too. Is unsweetened raisin bran better for your kid than Fruit Loops. Probably. Is it going to make or break their health one way or the other, I doubt it. Like I said it's funny we tend to over scrutinize dog food due to I think uncertainity yet we are more comfortable with feeding/eating "suspect" human food because it tastes good or our own experiences tell us it's okay.

Bottom line. Make up your own mind on food philosophy. Pick something, feed your dog. If he/she is healthy then as the Beatles said, or maybe it was schoolhouse rock, letter "B".


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## HopeandFaithCA (Feb 25, 2008)

Goldilocks, can I ask what dog food you ended up putting Pippa on that took the yeast away? My Dalmatian had a very bad case of ear wax that flowed out of her like a river (almost not kidding!) and chewed her paws a lot. Vets just kept giving me ear cleaner. On a trip back home where my #1 vet was, I took her in (at Xmas) and the vet told me that it was a yeast infection in her ear and he thought she had an allergy to something and to try changing foods, cut out all doggie treats and see if it makes a difference. (It was a way to save on doing expensive allergy tests first). He put her on Hill's Prescription Diet Z/D no-allergen chow. Well, her ear cleared up and she has been doing well since Xmas when she went on it. However, she got one of this GR pup's rawhide bones the other day, chewed/ate the whole thing and I noticed her scratching that ear a lot by the next day.

Long story short, I want to try her on another food. Z/D works, but she doesn't love the taste so much. When you said the vet told you the yeast would clear up, I thought to ask what food you feed Pippa. Also, I find it confusing like everyone else on reading what websites say about dog chow! 8-D



Goldilocks said:


> FYI - Our breeder was feeding Proplan. When I got Pippa she was a complete yeast monster. Since putting her on only grain free foods, she has perfect skin, no stinkiness and no more ear infections. When I took her to the vet after bringing her home the first thing the vet asked was, "what are you feeding her"? I told her she had been on ProPlan but I was in the process of putting her on another food. She told me the yeast would clear up with the new food and it did - within a month.
> 
> I no longer have the Proplan bag here but there were some ingredients in there that were pretty iffy. I believe there is no claim of it being Ethoxyquin free and it has menadione in it. For more info go to http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=menadione


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## 3 goldens (Sep 30, 2005)

As I have said on the all breed forum, i "read my dogs, not labels". According to some on that forum, their dogs ae allergic to chicken, wheat, corn, pork, lamb, barley, etc. makes you wonder what in the world the poor dogs can eat! They are always switching from one premium food to another. I think they shouldr food.

I don't see many "nutritionist" talked about h ere, but boy you do over there. "Mordanna says" :Linda Arnet says" "Dr. Wyson says" "Robert Abady says", And thing is most don't agree with the other. When one feeds what is recommend by one, then that person is "the right one". Gets to be a big mess. one will post what one of them say and someone else will post "i don't care what Arnet says, mordanna says", etc. i pay no attention. just 'read my dogs" and let it go at that.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

HopeandFaithCA said:


> Goldilocks, can I ask what dog food you ended up putting Pippa on that took the yeast away? My Dalmatian had a very bad case of ear wax that flowed out of her like a river (almost not kidding!) and chewed her paws a lot. Vets just kept giving me ear cleaner. On a trip back home where my #1 vet was, I took her in (at Xmas) and the vet told me that it was a yeast infection in her ear and he thought she had an allergy to something and to try changing foods, cut out all doggie treats and see if it makes a difference. (It was a way to save on doing expensive allergy tests first). He put her on Hill's Prescription Diet Z/D no-allergen chow. Well, her ear cleared up and she has been doing well since Xmas when she went on it. However, she got one of this GR pup's rawhide bones the other day, chewed/ate the whole thing and I noticed her scratching that ear a lot by the next day.
> 
> Long story short, I want to try her on another food. Z/D works, but she doesn't love the taste so much. When you said the vet told you the yeast would clear up, I thought to ask what food you feed Pippa. Also, I find it confusing like everyone else on reading what websites say about dog chow! 8-D


Please go to www.greatdanelady.com She is a former prof. at Ball State, former great dane breeder and canine nutritionist. She has tons of info of handling yeast issues.... seems like this is a special interest of hers. There are articles, lists of foods and protocols. I believe she does consults too. Hope this helps.

Betty


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## Goldilocks (Jun 3, 2007)

HopeandFaithCA said:


> Goldilocks, can I ask what dog food you ended up putting Pippa on that took the yeast away?
> 
> I put her on Orijen which is grain free. She was on the Orijen for about 3 months and then I switched to raw food. We are back to the kibble now and I will do some home made stuff for variety.
> 
> Her yeast was really bad but she had also just had a litter of pups which may have made matters worse. Not sure if it's normal or not after pups but her entire tummy was covered in black yeast, her teats, her back was covered in flakey black stuff, her ears. Just about everywhere. The yeast cleared up within a month but I also had to do regular ear cleanings and burrows solution. I still check her ears on a weekly basis and do a cleaning and burrows solution if needed. The tummy yeast had to be scrubbed off by the vet with a special solution. It has not come back since. I would suggest trying a grain free food and see if you can cure the yeast in your dog.


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

Lucky's mom said:


> Yep that's capitalism. I myself am a capitalist. I trust the system. But some people don't.......


It's not that I don't understand or accept capitalism...I think when we all "argue" these points here, I get a lot of "years of research" thrown at me, yet no one has been able to explain which formulas have these years of research involved, and if the years of research yielded such great successes, why then would they continue to change forumlations? 

My brain is hurting from all this reading I have been doing. I don't know where to find the research that Iams or Purina has out there - I have been unable to find anything. I would very much like to read the research that folks here talk about.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

I might be able to find something tomorrow. If they published the research in any of the journals, I may have access. If I remember, I'll check.

As I go back and read some of the threads all I can think of is brand vs generic. Don't know why...


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

Sunshine Goldens said:


> It's not that I don't understand or accept capitalism...I think when we all "argue" these points here, I get a lot of "years of research" thrown at me, yet no one has been able to explain which formulas have these years of research involved, and if the years of research yielded such great successes, why then would they continue to change forumlations?
> 
> My brain is hurting from all this reading I have been doing. I don't know where to find the research that Iams or Purina has out there - I have been unable to find anything. I would very much like to read the research that folks here talk about.


I'm sorry I wasn't trying to call you anti capitalist or say you didn't understand it. You had mentioned that dog food manufacturers made different qualities of food...and I guess I was saying that goes with the system. Their is a strong market for less expensive food that meets requirements. Most people don't want to pay $30.00 for a 15lb bag of food.

Is this the type of thing you are lookig for?? Or are you looking for the raw studies. Good luck on that. I've scoured the web.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2004_July_26/ai_n6122506


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

Lucky's mom said:


> I'm sorry I wasn't trying to call you anti capitalist or say you didn't understand it. You had mentioned that dog food manufacturers made different qualities of food...and I guess I was saying that goes with the system. Their is a strong market for less expensive food that meets requirements. Most people don't want to pay $30.00 for a 15lb bag of food.
> 
> Is this the type of thing you are lookig for?? Or are you looking for the raw studies. Good luck on that. I've scoured the web.
> http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2004_July_26/ai_n6122506


Oh, no worries! I didn't take it that way at all. Thanks for the study!! I am going to read it tomorrow. I'm losing faith that I will be able to find "the answer" but at the very least I will either feel satisfied that the extra money I am spending is worth it, or I will have a little more cashola in my pocket!


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Lisa, 

Are you anywhere near the UCONN Campus? You may be able to access their e-journals from one of their campus computers. Some alumni still have library priviledges and can access e-journals using a proxy from home.


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

Kimm said:


> Lisa,
> 
> Are you anywhere near the UCONN Campus? You may be able to access their e-journals from one of their campus computers. Some alumni still have library priviledges and can access e-journals using a proxy from home.


Thanks! I am actually not far from the Htfd campus.


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## Dogrunner (Feb 24, 2008)

Sunshine Goldens said:


> I would like to see a site that shared info about the origins of the ingredients. My main concern is that I don't want road-kill or poor quality ingredients in the food I feed. I worry about that more than I do the grain thing. I like to use foods that use "human-grade" ingredients if at all possible. It just happens that many of those are in the grain-free category. Do any of the "big" dog food companies offer products with human-grade ingredients?


I was doing research (for work--on recycling programs) and read an EPA guideline for managing food waste in dumpsters--and one of their suggestions was to have the "not fit for human consumption" produce recycled for _pet food :yuck: _There are companies doing this  (Not only do they recommend using dumpster waste for pet food, they also recommend it for pig and animal feed....I am appalled. The reason we don't have trich. (please don't ask me to spell that--the pork parasite) in this country is because we've stopped "slopping" the hogs. And I'm not sure how I feel about my hamburger eating rotten lettuce or moldy carrots. But I'm sure thats how some of these super-cheap kibbles stay super-cheap ......


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

Dogrunner said:


> I was doing research (for work--on recycling programs) and read an EPA guideline for managing food waste in dumpsters--and one of their suggestions was to have the "not fit for human consumption" produce recycled for _pet food :yuck: _There are companies doing this  (Not only do they recommend using dumpster waste for pet food, they also recommend it for pig and animal feed....I am appalled. The reason we don't have trich. (please don't ask me to spell that--the pork parasite) in this country is because we've stopped "slopping" the hogs. And I'm not sure how I feel about my hamburger eating rotten lettuce or moldy carrots. But I'm sure thats how some of these super-cheap kibbles stay super-cheap ......


Oh yum. I really did feel like there was something to the "human-quality" claims. If it were just a marketing ploy, every brand would be claiming that I would think.


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