# Sticky  Supplements, etc. for Arthritis/Joint Problems



## IowaGold

Reading through the threads here, it's easy to see that joint problems (be they hip or elbow dysplasia, cruciate injuries, or just plain arthritis from advanced age) are a common source of questions. As my own young dog was recently diagnosed and treated for elbow dysplasia, I've been doing a lot of research on the Veterinary Information Network (VIN) to determine what supplements (if any) have merit for my girl who is only a year old and already has DJD (dengerative joint disease). Here's what I have come up with from VIN as far as supplements:

Some supplements have been proven to reduce inflammation. Individual supplements can be efficacious in individual dogs - not every supplement will produce profound results in every dog. Because of their very natures, the supplements listed below are extremely unlikely to have unpleasant side effects so their potential to help far outweighs their potential to harm. Collectively, they are recommended as a first line of defense in all dogs with DJD. In fact the following supplement are so benign, that most of them would be entirely appropriate to give to dogs not currently suffering from, but at increased risk of developing, DJD. 

1. Glycosaminoglycans: Glycosaminoglycans are a source of cartilage-matrix molecules which are the components and precursors to cell synthesis, increase the production of synovial fluid, and neutralize the damaging effects of free radicals.

A. Adequan® injections. The label dose is twice weekly for 8 doses. Many veterinarians will continue to maintain their DJD patients with injections every 1 to 4 months (or more often in severe cases).
-Adequan® injections will reach adequate blood and tissue levels much quicker than oral products.

B. Oral Glucosamine/Chondroitin supplements. These should start at the same time as the Adequan injections. By the time the semi-weekly Adequan® injections are completed, the oral supplements have had time to achieve sufficient blood levels.
-The joint products made by Nutramax Laboratories, Inc. (Cosequin® and Dasuquin®) are the only ones that have credible efficacy data in dogs, but that does not mean that other products are not effective. You do need to be careful as many products do not actually contain the stated amounts of supplement.


2. Omega 3 Fatty Acids: Fish oil, or more specifically EPA and DHA, has been proven to decrease inflammation and is helpful in most inflammatory processes (DJD, allergies, cancer, etc.).

A. The anti-inflammatory dose of fish oil is approximately 300mg of combined EPA/DHA per 10 pounds of body weight. This is typically one 1000-1200mg fish oil capsule per 10 pounds.

B. Some fish oil supplements have been shown to contain unacceptably high levels of mercury and other contaminants. You can check the rating of a potential fish oil supplement at the following sites:
-Environmental Defense Fund: http://www.edf.org/page.cfm?tagID=16536
-International Fish Oil Standards: http://www.ifosprogram.com/IFOS/ConsumerReport.aspx

3. Antioxidants: Antioxidants neutralize the damaging effects of free radicals which can start chain reactions that damage cells.

A. A general antioxidant supplement should contain components such as bioflavonoids, vitamins E and C, selenium, zinc, and manganese which are all good antioxidants.

B. Vitamin E: This fat soluble vitamin is not only a powerful antioxidant but will also help with the absorption and utilization of fish oils.
-Natural (d-alpha) vitamin E is more efficacious than synthetic (dl-alpha).
-Large dogs should receive approximately 400 IU per day (smaller dogs, approximately 200 IU). Many general antioxidant supplements contain some vitamin E, but the amounts included are unlikely to reach the recommended level of vitamin E, so supplementary quantities can be given to achieve the desired level.

C. Vitamin C: This water soluble vitamin is another powerful antioxidant.
-Dogs naturally produce vitamin C, but given the possible benefit and the lack of potential harm, adding additional vitamin C may be prudent. Excess vitamin C will be eliminated in the urine.
-Large dogs can receive 1000mg or more per day (small dogs, 500mg); ideally split into morning and evening doses as vitamin C is quickly eliminated from the body.
-Massive doses have been known to cause loose stools so it is advisable to slowly increase vitamin C supplementation to the desired level.

D. S-adenosyl methionine (SAM-e): SAM-e has been shown to improve cartilage metabolism. It has also increases glutathione levels, especially in the liver (glutathione is a natural antioxidant).
-Denosyl® and Denamarin® are the only brands of SAM-e researched in U.S. trials for dogs and cats. 
-After an induction period (perhaps one 30-day supply), it is reasonable to decrease the dose to every other day or twice weekly due to the significant cost of daily supplementation.
-An added benefit is protecting the liver from the potentially harmful effects of NSAIDs, if the DJD progresses to the point where these drugs are needed.


4. Niacinamide (aka Nicotinamide): This water soluble B vitamin has demonstrated some anti-inflammatory properties. Note that Niacinamide is not the same as Niacin.
-Large dogs should receive 500mg per day; small dogs, 250mg per day.


5. Methylsulfonylmethane (MSM): MSM is potentially anti-inflammatory. It may not help, but is extremely unlikely to harm. It is included in some glucosamine/chondroitin products.

None of the above supplements have been proven to prevent the development of DJD. Dogs are notoriously good at hiding the early signs of DJD, though, so early supplementation could potentially achieve the result of having physiologic levels of the supplements in the body when the first damage is done, long before the dog exhibits clear signs of DJD. Therefore, dogs at risk of developing DJD may potentially benefit from supplementation with oral glucosamine/chondroitin supplements (+/- MSM), fish oil (perhaps drop the dose to half the anti-inflammatory dose), and a general antioxidant supplement with supplemental vitamins E and possibly C.


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## IowaGold

Currently my girl is getting the twice weekly Adequan injections, we're about 3 weeks into the treatment. She also has started Dasuquin tablets. I did start her with an "induction" dose, but will drop down to the maintenance dose when the twice weekly Adequan is finished (the induction dose is recommended for 4-6 weeks). She gets 5 fish oil capsules every day. I also have her on Denosyl-we're going to do a month of daily pills, then we'll go to twice weekly. We're also doing one capsule twice daily of the antioxidant tablets by Vetri-Science (Cell Advance 880). I'm not doing quite the full dose they recommend (1 capsule per 20#) simply because I'm going to go broke buying all the supplements for 3 dogs! And we're doing 400 IU vitamin E every other day (the Cell Advance has 75 IU per capsule) and 500mg vitamin C twice daily. My other dogs (75# senior; 60# middle aged) are getting all the same products and doses except I'm not doing Adequan or Denosyl with them mostly due to cost.

For anyone that's interested here's *my* cost breakdown:

Adequan=$9/ml (which is one dose for 50#)
Dasuquin=$.35/tablet (one tablet daily for 60-120# maintenance)
Fish Oil=$.04/capsules (5 capsules per day)
Denosyl=$1.33/tablet (one tablet per day induction, then 2X/week)
Cell Advance=$.20/capsules (2 capsules per day)
Vitamin E=$.10/capsule (1 capsule every other day)
Vitamin C=<$.05/2 tablets (I don't really remember the cost, but it is cheap)

So average cost at maintenance (I probably should compute this...) is about $50/month or a bit less than $2 per day. This is for my ED girl. My "regular" dogs will cost about $30/month each. Dang all those things add up quick!


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom

WONDEFUL post Sarah. My crew gets a good share of the supps you mention and it's great to have all the info in one post. Mods.. can we make this a sticky???


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## MillysMom

Great post! I'm a huge believer in Cosequin, and don't know if I'd own an adult dog not on it daily as a preventative. I like to use it in horses too, and for cosamin for me. 

Milly gets cosequin, pro/pre biotics, and two types of fish oil (one a salmon - I forget the other) each day.


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## CarolinaCasey

Great post!! I've seen Adequan work for a few dogs with great success. Seeing this post will push me to have my mom speak with her vet about using it with our 12 yr old, Casey, who had HD sx when he was a puppy!


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## hotel4dogs

Great post Sarah, thanks for all the info!


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## LibertyME

Great post! 
I have been low,low, LOW on the fish oil....


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## Karen2

Thank you for the great post.
I have this bookmarked.
I need to start adding a few more to Sierra's regiment.
Thanks
Karen


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## coppers-mom

LibertyME said:


> Great post!
> I have been low,low, LOW on the fish oil....


I've been giving Copper 1 fish oil capsule a day. No wonder it didn't seem to have any effect. I'll start increasing his dose today.

Thank you for the info.

His ortho vet recommended SAM-e and said some dogs respond as well to that as rimadyl or other NSAID. I'm trying it for Copper.:crossfing


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## Merlins mom

Thanks so much for posting this information!! I've only been giving Merlin one fish oil capsule a day. Definitely will up the amount and add a few more supplements.

I do believe Cosequin works. I had a 13 yr old husky mix with a torn acl. He improved dramatically once I started him on it.


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## Lilliam

Awesome post - thank you!

I noticed that Glycoflex was not mentioned - are there adverse side effects or is it not helpful at all?
http://www.healthypets.com/bnewbglycoflex.html

I have Dru on it because he sees to be a bit stiff in the mornings when he first gets up wit me - he's now 11 and a half.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom

Lilliam said:


> Awesome post - thank you!
> 
> I noticed that Glycoflex was not mentioned - are there adverse side effects or is it not helpful at all?
> http://www.healthypets.com/bnewbglycoflex.html
> 
> I have Dru on it because he sees to be a bit stiff in the mornings when he first gets up wit me - he's now 11 and a half.


I believe it falls under Sarah's 'B' paragraph as a glucosamine/ chondroitin product.


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## Lilliam

gotcha. Thanks!!!


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## GoldenCamper

Lilliam said:


> Awesome post - thank you!
> 
> I noticed that Glycoflex was not mentioned - are there adverse side effects or is it not helpful at all?
> http://www.healthypets.com/bnewbglycoflex.html
> 
> I have Dru on it because he sees to be a bit stiff in the mornings when he first gets up wit me - he's now 11 and a half.


Glycoflex was not mentioned because it has no chondroitin in it. Nutramax labs have performed actual studies where no other Glucosamine product has. Tucker's orthopedic specialist believes it has to do with the 5/4 ratio of Glucosamine/Chondroitin. As quoted below it does not necessarily mean other products ( such as Glycoflex) are not effective.



IowaGold said:


> B. Oral Glucosamine/Chondroitin supplements. These should start at the same time as the Adequan injections. By the time the semi-weekly Adequan® injections are completed, the oral supplements have had time to achieve sufficient blood levels.
> -The joint products made by Nutramax Laboratories, Inc. (Cosequin® and Dasuquin®) are the only ones that have credible efficacy data in dogs, but that does not mean that other products are not effective. You do need to be careful as many products do not actually contain the stated amounts of supplement.


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## Finn's Fan

Sarah, thanks for the great info. I have a question about Vitamin E. I had my degenerative myelopathy guy on large doses of E per his neurosurgeon but have heard that more than 400 IU in a healthy dog can be harmful. Any truth to that, as I know a couple of people who use more than 400 IU daily prophalactically and think it's just fine.


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## Maxs Mom

MillysMom said:


> Great post! I'm a huge believer in Cosequin, and don't know if I'd own an adult dog not on it daily as a preventative. I like to use it in horses too, and for cosamin for me.


Me too! My dogs are on Adequan. I have seen results. After the loading dose (twice a week etc) I went to once a month. My vet showed my how so I can give my own injections. Knock on wood, Teddi has not limped in over a year. Belle had improvement too but her issues were more subtle so her results were too. 

Ann


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## Megora

Sarah... thanks for this! 

One question I have - and keep in mind this goes back 15 years ago when my old vet handed me a sheet showing the breakdown in measurements for cosequin, if we purchased the horse version. I think cosequin was a little more expensive at the time, and she was trying to help us out. 

Right now I have my golden on a combination of cosequin ds and another product, but I was wondering if the horse/canine formulas are still compatible, and what the measurements would be. <- I'm not so concerned about the expense, but I like the idea of stirring powder into his food instead of stuffing pills down his throat. 

And has anyone tried the Cosequin chewables? The other product I have him on is Joint Max Triple Strength chewables, which honestly - I wish he loved all his pills like that. 

I guess that's two questions.


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## IowaGold

Thank you all! I thought it might be nice to have all the info in one place. And since joint supplements have recently become a much bigger part of my life and I had all the info, I thougt I'd share it.

I'll try to answer everyone's questions-sorry if I miss any!

Glycoflex-it is a fine product (no adverse side effects), it's simply that the Nutramax products were the ones most recommended on VIN. Glycoflex was probably #2.

Vitamin E doses-vitamin E is a fat soluble vitamin, so overdoses are possible. But they are uncommon and high (higher than 400 IU) doses are reasonable/recommended for some health conditions. I wouldn't probably use megadoses unless my dog had a special need for them, although the chance of an overdose is probably fairly small.

Cosequin Equine-the ratio is a little different (less chondroitin), so it's not exactly the same. The type of glucosamine and chondroitin is the same though, so I'm sure using it has some merit in dogs. It might be a little cheaper per day than Cosequin tablets or capsules, but it depends a little on how many tablets/capsules you need to give. I am pretty sure it would be reasonable to pull the Cosequin capsules apart and stir them into the food that way. It's not like the capsules don't break down immediately in the stomach.

Chewable Cosequin vs. Capsule-I think either is fine. I trust the company to make sure that the amount of available glucosamine/chondroitin is what the bottle claims. I am using the Dasuquin chewable tablets and like them very much. They don't even make a capsule/powder form of the Dasuquin. There is a soft chew though. I'm sure my dogs would like them, but I prefer to have my supplement in a hard bottle rather than a bag (my cats would chew through a bag if it accidently got left out).


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## Megora

> Chewable Cosequin vs. Capsule-I think either is fine. I trust the company to make sure that the amount of available glucosamine/chondroitin is what the bottle claims. I am using the Dasuquin chewable tablets and like them very much. They don't even make a capsule/powder form of the Dasuquin. There is a soft chew though. I'm sure my dogs would like them, but I prefer to have my supplement in a hard bottle rather than a bag (my cats would chew through a bag if it accidently got left out).


Ohw... I meant to say the soft chews. <- I saw the local petsmart carries the cosequin ds soft chews and was tempted to try them out next time I'm running low on supplies. I was just hesitant to go that route if my dog is just going to gag and spit it out.

He's getting cosequin ds chewables and joint max ts soft chews, and so far he thinks the soft chews are a treat. Chewables not so much. <- I was wondering if it is the flavor (the joint max smells pretty good - like bullion cubes) or because it is a soft chew.


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## IowaGold

Definitely try the chews. I'm sure he'll love them. Just make sure to keep the bag well sealed-soft chews tend to get kind of yucky if exposed to air.


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## Ljilly28

This is an awesome thread! Every dog in my household gets Dasuquin and wild salmon oil.


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## 2golddogs

Dasuquin and wild salmon oil here too.


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## Florabora22

I used to give Flora Cosaquin and I definitely saw a decrease in the amount of bunny hopping and tentative use of her left leg, but now that I have very little money, I've had to cut that out of the budget.

Fish oil seems like it might be a good temporary solution until I have a more flexible budget. What brands of fish oil do you guys use?


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## Megora

Keep an eye out for sales and lower prices... and keep in mind how much glucosamine your dog needs for her/his size. 

I just picked up a 120 count bottle of cosequin ds at Petsmart for under $40. It was $35 (I think). I also check into a couple of my favorite horse/dog supplies online catalogs (Valley Vet Supplies, KV Vet, Dr. Foster, for example) and keep an eye out for any sales. I haven't seen Cosequin DS cheaper than $32 per 120 count bottle, but it's better than spending $49 for a 90 count bottle. 

And then I combine that with Triple Joint Max which costs $28 per tub of 120 chewies. My guy gets 1 pill in the morning and 1 pill at night, and I go 3 months until I need to reorder. 

But if you are just giving Cosequin DS to your dog, it would still last you 2 months. That would run you about $65-70. To put this in perspective, I used to spend $120 a month for my daily coffee ($4 per day).


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## IowaGold

kdmarsh said:


> I used to give Flora Cosaquin and I definitely saw a decrease in the amount of bunny hopping and tentative use of her left leg, but now that I have very little money, I've had to cut that out of the budget.
> 
> Fish oil seems like it might be a good temporary solution until I have a more flexible budget. What brands of fish oil do you guys use?


I use Spring Valley from Wal-Mart. It's EPA/DHA level is 300mg in the 1000mg capsules, so it's about 1 capsule per 10 pounds. I can't remember exactly what it cost but it was less than $15 for a 2-pack of 200 count capsules.

If you can't afford the Cosequin, I wouldn't be afraid to try a less expensive glucosamine/chondroitin. Nutramax products have the studies to back them up, but those studies do cost. Lots of dogs do well on other brands of supplements.


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## BeauShel

I dont know how I missed this but I have made it a sticky for everyone so it doesnt get lost. It is very important information. Thank you Sarah.


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## Florabora22

IowaGold said:


> I use Spring Valley from Wal-Mart. It's EPA/DHA level is 300mg in the 1000mg capsules, so it's about 1 capsule per 10 pounds. I can't remember exactly what it cost but it was less than $15 for a 2-pack of 200 count capsules.
> 
> If you can't afford the Cosequin, I wouldn't be afraid to try a less expensive glucosamine/chondroitin. Nutramax products have the studies to back them up, but those studies do cost. Lots of dogs do well on other brands of supplements.


Thank you, I will try that form of fish oil, it definitely sounds affordable.

Even the cheaper glucosamine formulas are still expensive... Flora has cost me around $200 in vet bills each month for the last few months, so I am really, really in debt. Hopefully once I'm out of school and actually have a job I can get her back on glucosamine! 

This thread is amazing, by the way. What a great idea.


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## alm2289

What is the difference between Cosequin and Dasuquin?


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## IowaGold

alm2289 said:


> What is the difference between Cosequin and Dasuquin?


Dasuquin contains ASU (avacado something or other) that helps with pain/inflammation. Otherwise they are made by the same company and are similar.


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## Bailey Golden

My golden was diagnosed with hip dysplasia at 11 months. Since then we have been on a large breed senior food diet, Dasuquin daily, and Metacam when needed. I know all about the costs of keeping my golden happy and healthy!


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## sdain31y

*More front leg pain problems*

We've used Cosequin DS for Jazz since she was about 6 mths old and between that, the fish oil, Standard process whole body supplement and immune boster (read a recommendation in Clean Run) and now Dogzymes from Nature's Pharmacy it appears something is helping and/or she's grown out of her issues (at least temporarily) with her hips.

Enter Darby. He was thin and underweight when we rescued him and that's why we started them on Dogzymes. I also give him the Standard Process whole body supplement. But....and here's the problem, it seems everytime I try to put him on the Cosequin it seems to upset his stomach and he vomits or has very soft stools. I've even tried to only give him a 1/4 of a tablet with similar results.

So since he's having more front shoulder/leg pain that's been apparent since we first got him (he's about 7 - 8 mths now), I really want to have him on joint supplements. Any suggestions/recommendations other then Cosequin or the like? I tried fish oil before too, but think the soft stoools were from giardia not the fish oil so I might try that again next.

He's got a vet appt this coming Sat, but its obvious for the first time his leg/shoulder is really starting to bother him. I can't feel any warm areas nor can I get him to flinch or whimper on manipulation, but he's starting to seriously favor that leg. <sigh> its always something with the babies, isn't it? 

The vet has given me some pain killers to have for Jazz's hips, if we need them but am hesitant to give them to him since I don't want to worsen a problem cause he doesn't feel the pain. But I hate to see him uncomfortable. We have tramadol and deramaxx.

Thoughts? Thanks.............. I think I should have posted this in the health forum - sorry.


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## Megora

Sdain - I had the same thing happen with my Jacks. When I first started giving him Cosequin, he vomitted every time I tried. 

Make sure you give it to your dog with his food. And only 1 a day instead of the loading dose. <- That worked with Jacks. 

Other than that -

He's also on Triple Joint Max, because I can trick him into thinking that it's a treat. Synovial-flex is the same exact thing. <- I've used both without any upset stomachs. He gets that in the morning when I'm running out the door and the Cosequin DS with his supper.

Same thing with the Greenies Joint treats. You can pick them up from your local store and buy enough for a week as a trial (I think it's $8 for a weekly, $30 for month supply). If you look at the back, you just need to give one greenie treat a day so your dog gets the levels of glucosamine that he needs.

I would wait until you go to your appointment with the puppy. If it's his leg that's bothering him, it could be pano (long bone) instead of his joints that are bothering him. If you dog is in pain, then hurry up the appointment and see about getting pain meds for him.


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## sdain31y

Thank you. I changed the appoint to this afternoon. I need to do some research on pano. I'll try the other supplements. He's becoming kinda picky about "stuff" in his food. Strange. Didn't even want canned food the other day and only ate half this morning. Wondering if its related to him hurting?


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## jealous1

Sarah - Can you give me your opinion on Duralactin? We gave this to our older rottweiler for several years at the recommendation of a vet tech and it did wonders for him although I understand it doesn't work for every dog. We have now had to move on to metacam and have just started the Adequan injections for his arthritis (in addition to fish oil and Triple Join Max). I know that one or two folks on here have used as well as a few friends/co-workers, only one that I know of without success (I think their dog was lactose intolerant?). 

Thank you for all of the above information (I had not seen it before today) as it confirms alot of what we are doing presently for our younger dogs as well as the rottweiler.


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## IowaGold

To be honest, I've never used Duralactin. I wouldn't hesitate to try it though and if it seemed to be helping, I'd stay on it.


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## coppers-mom

I recently found out that SAM-e should not be used at the same time as Rimadyl.
It is under another thread titled something like SAM-e and Rimadyl should not be used together.


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## Dallas Gold

jealous1 said:


> Sarah - Can you give me your opinion on Duralactin? We gave this to our older rottweiler for several years at the recommendation of a vet tech and it did wonders for him although I understand it doesn't work for every dog. We have now had to move on to metacam and have just started the Adequan injections for his arthritis (in addition to fish oil and Triple Join Max). I know that one or two folks on here have used as well as a few friends/co-workers, only one that I know of without success (I think their dog was lactose intolerant?).
> 
> 
> Thank you for all of the above information (I had not seen it before today) as it confirms alot of what we are doing presently for our younger dogs as well as the rottweiler.


We tried Duralactin but Barkley had terrible flatulence and we had to stop. :uhoh:


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## kyser

*supplement*

Hi i have a 7 year old retriever, we live by the beach and i noticed about a year and a half ago that after a good long walk and swim he would be hobbeling later that evening so i went to my pet shop to see if they had any supplements for joints, which they did so i tried them and they done no good, they were supposed to be the best thing since sliced bread.Then i tried Seven Seas pro joint 55 with glucosamine, omega and all the good stuff in it. a year later he is like a pup, no limping or hobbeling after walks, its the best thing ever 20ml a day off the spoon and its 50% cheaper than the **** the pet shop sold me.


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## goldensrbest

Would a joint supplement, help with panosteitis, spirit has this.


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## IowaGold

goldensrbest said:


> Would a joint supplement, help with panosteitis, spirit has this.


Glucosamine/Chondroitin probably not (but wouldn't hurt). Maybe anti-inflammatory doses of fish oil might help?


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## goldensrbest

What would the amount be for fish oil? He gets 1000 gams of salmon oil per day, is that enough?


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## LifeOfRiley

Great information! How am I just now seeing this? :doh:

Sarah, have you seen anything about giving _too much_ glucosamine?

I decided, finally, to try Springtime's Longevity which is supposed to have 400mg of glucosamine and chondroitin in each scoop. (Riley will get two scoops a day.) Since there's no guarantee that each scoop will actually contain that much glucosamine, I'm hesitant to take him off his Cosequin DS. At the same time, I worry about overdoing it with the glucosamine. Have you seen anything about that - how much is too much, etc.?


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## cprcheetah

i give Shellie Kirkland's Glucosamine she gets 1500mg per day, as well as it has Chondroitin and MSM in it. She has hip dysplasia: DogAware.com Health: Supplements & Diet Guidelines for Dogs with Arthritis When giving glucosamine and chondroitin for arthritis, start out at high doses: at least 500 mg glucosamine plus 400 mg chondroitin daily for a small dog (up to 25 lbs), 1000/800 mg for a medium-sized dog (25 to 50 lbs), 1500/1200 mg for a large dog (50 to 100 lbs), and 2000/1600 mg for dogs over 100 lbs.

As for Fish Oil: DogAware.com: Supplements for Dogs Recommended dosage is 1000 mg fish oil (containing 300 mg combined EPA/DHA) per 30 pounds (14 kg) of body weight. Maximum dosage for dogs with health problems would be 1000 mg fish oil (300 mg EPA/DHA) per 10 pounds (4.5 kg) of body weight. You can also use sardines in place of fish oil supplements; one small sardine supplies over 100 mg EPA/DHA.

Vitamin E should also be given whenever oils are supplemented (even small amounts are adequate, but highest recommended dosage would be 100 IU per day for small dogs, 200 IU for medium-sized dogs, and 400 IU for large dogs). Note that fish oil is not the same as cod liver oil, which is high in vitamins A and D.


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## IowaGold

LifeOfRiley said:


> Great information! How am I just now seeing this? :doh:
> 
> Sarah, have you seen anything about giving _too much_ glucosamine?
> 
> I decided, finally, to try Springtime's Longevity which is supposed to have 400mg of glucosamine and chondroitin in each scoop. (Riley will get two scoops a day.) Since there's no guarantee that each scoop will actually contain that much glucosamine, I'm hesitant to take him off his Cosequin DS. At the same time, I worry about overdoing it with the glucosamine. Have you seen anything about that - how much is too much, etc.?


I'm not really sure that there is such a thing. I suspect excess would not be absorbed and would exit the body in the stool. From what I understand with the flavored supplements, a dog that eats the whole bag might get stomach upset from all the "treat" part of the supplement, but would not be in danger from the glucosamine/chondroitin.


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## LifeOfRiley

IowaGold said:


> I'm not really sure that there is such a thing. I suspect excess would not be absorbed and would exit the body in the stool. From what I understand with the flavored supplements, a dog that eats the whole bag might get stomach upset from all the "treat" part of the supplement, but would not be in danger from the glucosamine/chondroitin.


I wasn't real sure if there is such a thing, either. I know that glucosamine can cause problems with people who are diabetic, but I don't know if the same is true for dogs. Or if too much glucosamine could _cause_ problems in an otherwise healthy dog (or person.)


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## goldensrbest

With spirit, having pano, the vet gave me deramaxx, to use, would aspirin, made for dogs, be better long term?


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## IowaGold

I would use the Deramaxx (as long as it agrees with him-no vomiting, diarrhea, etc.). Aspirin, especially in doses big enough to do anything and long-term, really does a number on the stomach. I'd hate to see Spirit get a bleeding ulcer or worse because of aspirin.


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## goldensrbest

Thank-you, so much i will do that.


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## cprcheetah

goldensrbest said:


> With spirit, having pano, the vet gave me deramaxx, to use, would aspirin, made for dogs, be better long term?


Aspirin is very caustic to dogs stomachs, I've seen dogs get bleeding ulcers after just one or two doses. If you give the Glucosamine/Fish Oil you may find that you will need a lower dose of the Deramaxx. I have found that with Shellie, she has Meloxicam for bad days or Zeel, and since upping her doses of Gluc/Fish Oil her bad days are few and far between.


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## Megora

> A. The anti-inflammatory dose of fish oil is approximately 300mg of combined EPA/DHA per 10 pounds of body weight. This is typically one 1000-1200mg fish oil capsule per 10 pounds.


I'm a little scared at the idea of giving my guy 4 pills twice a day, but if I give him 2 twice a day for the next week or so, will that still have some kind of minimal benefit for him? 

I normally pick up Grizzley Salmon oil from a store that carries it. Petsmart now only carries a GNC brand which I'm not sure about and the other petstores in town carry this cheap stuff that always smells like it might be going bad.  

So, until I find the time to drive over to this other store, I'm going to be giving the boy some lemon flavored salmon oil pills that were a fail with me (I still tasted fish and it made me gaacky). 

These pills are 1000 mg each.


----------



## IowaGold

Of course they will be of some benefit, just not the full anti-inflammatory benefit that fish oil is capable of.


----------



## animalci

CarolinaCasey said:


> Great post!! I've seen Adequan work for a few dogs with great success. Seeing this post will push me to have my mom speak with her vet about using it with our 12 yr old, Casey, who had HD sx when he was a puppy!


How old did you say your pet was?


----------



## Megora

IowaGold said:


> Of course they will be of some benefit, just not the full anti-inflammatory benefit that fish oil is capable of.


Missed this. Thanks! 

I've been giving the guy just a pill with each meal and they apparently aren't bothering his stomach. 

I thought I'd just say I really wish that Cosequin got the same reaction from Jacks that Triple Joint Max does. I just gave him Cosequin for the past three months or so and only just reordered a bucket of TJM when I was ordering other supplies. 

Jacks recognized the bucket and was hanging over it drooling while I opened the bag inside the bucket. Literally. There was a puddle of drool on the top of the bag from him trying to help me open it faster to get his first cube.


----------



## weedrea

Brodie's (nearly 10) on 1500mg of glucosamine for 4 weeks and I'm starting to see some benefits - he's like a puppy again. I live in the middle of nowhere and am struggling to find fish oil locally. I do have some cod liver oil tablets - are they worth giving Brodie? If so, what daily rate should he get?

TIA
Andrea


----------



## Dallas Gold

Here is a PDF of Iowa Gold's great post:


----------



## RudieGirl

Im thankful to all of you for your post. I am new to this site. I came across it while looking for some help for my Golden - Rudie Girl who is 5. She dislocated her hip last week, the vet was able to put it back in place. However, he did say she has a mild case of HD. We started her on a Glucosamine treat which she gets 4 x's a day. Any advice on what to do from here? Her vet said it will take a month for her to heal and we should be able to resume normal activity then. I just don't want this to happen to her again or for her to be in pain. Please help us with Rudie-Girl.


----------



## Taracherrie

GNC is actually really huge in my part of world and they are for human!!


----------



## Belle's Mom

Iowa Gold - 

Thanks so much for taking the time to put all this wonderful info in writing and post for all of us to use.


----------



## GoBigRed

I've read thru all six pages and I'm so confused. 

Husker was just diagnosed with hip dysplasia yesterday. He is a 9 month old Golden/Lab mix, weighs 71 pounds, he is trim and lean not overweight at all.

The x-rays are being sent to the Univ. of Vet Medicine MN. We live in Grand Forks, ND and I guess there is nothing like that around here. (We are new to the area)

The Vet. put Husker on Dasuquin Soft Chews. I have to ask, are those things supposed to be soft? These ones are hard as a rock and he has a tough time breaking it to chew it up.

The Vet. didn't recommend anything else. I asked about fish oils and she said I would have to give him so many pills each day of it and didn't think it was worth it. I realize that isn't correct but don't really know what I'm looking for to give him.

As regular maintence for HD what is recommended for a pup under 1 yr? I did save the dogaware.com website and will go there and read up on things too. 

Thank you for your help. I've had six dogs previously in my life and none have ever had HD or any health problems, so I'm completely new to this.


----------



## IowaGold

GoBigRed said:


> I've read thru all six pages and I'm so confused.
> 
> Husker was just diagnosed with hip dysplasia yesterday. He is a 9 month old Golden/Lab mix, weighs 71 pounds, he is trim and lean not overweight at all.
> 
> The x-rays are being sent to the Univ. of Vet Medicine MN. We live in Grand Forks, ND and I guess there is nothing like that around here. (We are new to the area)
> 
> The Vet. put Husker on Dasuquin Soft Chews. I have to ask, are those things supposed to be soft? These ones are hard as a rock and he has a tough time breaking it to chew it up.
> 
> The Vet. didn't recommend anything else. I asked about fish oils and she said I would have to give him so many pills each day of it and didn't think it was worth it. I realize that isn't correct but don't really know what I'm looking for to give him.
> 
> As regular maintence for HD what is recommended for a pup under 1 yr? I did save the dogaware.com website and will go there and read up on things too.
> 
> Thank you for your help. I've had six dogs previously in my life and none have ever had HD or any health problems, so I'm completely new to this.


I'm sorry about your pup. I haven't used the Dasuquin soft chews but if they are like any other brand of soft chews, yes, they should be soft. Most other soft chews get hard if they are not kept properly sealed. Might want to ask the vet.

Fish oil is a great supplement. If he doesn't take pills very well, there are double and triple strength pills available to decrease the total number.

As to the rest, you have to take into account the cost/benefit ratio. I would probably start with the glucosamine/chondroitin and fish oil, see how he does and add additional supplements/medications if/when things progress.


----------



## artbuc

What about this:

Spring Valley - Glucosamine Chondroitin Plus MSM + Vitamin D3, Triple Strength, 80 Tablets | spring valley vitamins review

Cosequin claims to have proprietary glucosamine/chondroitin (think it has to do with molecular weight distribution) but the basic chemicals are identical.


----------



## MikaTallulah

artbuc said:


> What about this:
> 
> Spring Valley - Glucosamine Chondroitin Plus MSM + Vitamin D3, Triple Strength, 80 Tablets | spring valley vitamins review
> 
> Cosequin claims to have proprietary glucosamine/chondroitin (think it has to do with molecular weight distribution) but the basic chemicals are identical.


I have given it to mine occasionally but normally it buy the one that is just glucosamine-chondroitin same dose 1500/1200. I don't see a difference myself with the MSM and D3 added. I also give Vitamin C, Vitamin E, & fish oil specifically for joint health too. I gave it to Lucky for years and he had minimal arthritis. He played fetch full out run for 2 hrs the day before he passed just shy of 13. He would be a little stiff when it was cold and running out in the morning but after 10-15 minutes of walking around he was fine.


----------



## Ljilly28

For anyone that's interested here's *my* cost breakdown:

Adequan=$9/ml (which is one dose for 50#)
Dasuquin=$.35/tablet (one tablet daily for 60-120# maintenance)
Fish Oil=$.04/capsules (5 capsules per day)
Denosyl=$1.33/tablet (one tablet per day induction, then 2X/week)
Cell Advance=$.20/capsules (2 capsules per day)
Vitamin E=$.10/capsule (1 capsule every other day)
Vitamin C=<$.05/2 tablets (I don't really remember the cost, but it is cheap)

My vet is charging me 22 dollars per adequan shot, and I give it myself. This seems extreme compared to 9 dollars. I know you are a vet, so that accounts for some of the difference, but the gap seems crazy. She said I can give it sub q instead of IM and it is just as effective. After reading all the threads on the forum though, I am wondering if IM is better?


----------



## Joanne & Asia

Does anyone know if it is safe to use Deramaxx and Sam-E together?


----------



## IowaGold

Ljilly28 said:


> She said I can give it sub q instead of IM and it is just as effective. After reading all the threads on the forum though, I am wondering if IM is better?


I give it SQ. Piper's a weeny and it made her pukey given IM.


----------



## IowaGold

Joanne & Asia said:


> Does anyone know if it is safe to use Deramaxx and Sam-E together?


It should be just fine to give those together.


----------



## Joanne & Asia

IowaGold said:


> It should be just fine to give those together.


 
Thanks! Our 15 year old Eskie started on Deramaxx a few days ago or a 2 week trial and it does seem to be helping. His liver enzymes are up and with some of the other symptoms he has the vet suspects Cushings disease and I want to try Sam_E and ordered some on line. I am hoping a combination of the 2 will help him continue to have some quality of life for his remaining time with us.


----------



## Garfield

IowaGold said:


> Fish oil is a great supplement. If he doesn't take pills very well, there are double and triple strength pills available to decrease the total number.


I highly recommend the Nordic Natural Omega 3 Pet liquid. It's independently tested for efficacy and purity and is very concentrated. Zero smell or aftertaste and even dogs with super sensitive stomachs can easily handle it. Just be sure to fridge it after opening.


----------



## seeana

Hi my Golden Shane suffers badly from arthritis and he has been on Metacam for about 12 months now and fish oil but he is now starting to get worse' in the past I have tried Cosequin and other various supplements but non seem to work.
I havent tried Adequan Injections yet but I think I will give it a go ...just wondered if any of you have had success with it'also are there any other good pain killers out there as I cannot bear to see Shane like this he is 11years old and so very brave.


----------



## IowaGold

seeana said:


> Hi my Golden Shane suffers badly from arthritis and he has been on Metacam for about 12 months now and fish oil but he is now starting to get worse' in the past I have tried Cosequin and other various supplements but non seem to work.
> I havent tried Adequan Injections yet but I think I will give it a go ...just wondered if any of you have had success with it'also are there any other good pain killers out there as I cannot bear to see Shane like this he is 11years old and so very brave.


Tramadol can be added to metacam. A lot of people are starting to use Gabapentin also. Ask your vet about them (they are prescriptions).


----------



## seeana

Thank you Sarah for that valuable advice' I have just talked to my vet and he might need an op on his cruciate ligament , having xrays in a couple of days hope that helps some.
It wont get rid of the Arthritus though so I will look into those two drugs you mentioned for sure when I take Shane in to my vet.


----------



## Ljilly28

Where do you get your adequan, Sarah?


----------



## IowaGold

Ljilly28 said:


> Where do you get your adequan, Sarah?


Directly from Novartis. Haven't had to order any in quite a while. I stocked up when I got it last.


----------



## Liquid

Hey everyone. Thanks for this great thread, it's a lot of info I've never seen before. We have a 3 and a half year old, Riley, who has started limping in the last few weeks. She is currently on her second week of anti-inflammatory medication, but so far it doesn't seem to have done much. We're concerned about how bad it might be. The vet will probably do an X-Ray if things haven't changed much by next week. She doesn't act any differently, still chases the ball, etc, but I don't know whether that means anything or not. Depending on the diagnoses, I'm sure I'll be back here to ask some advice from you guys. Again, thanks for creating this thread.


----------



## Blackberie

This is such great information thank you! I am just concerned about over doing it for my golden. He is 4 and just got diagnosed with hip dysplasia. How much can I give of all those supplements without over working his body? 

Hip Dysplasia in Dogs: Diagnosis, Treatment, and Prevention

I stumbled upon this article here about all the supplements I can give as well. Any suggestions for how much of what a 70 pound dog can receive on a daily basis?


----------



## IowaGold

Blackberie said:


> This is such great information thank you! I am just concerned about over doing it for my golden. He is 4 and just got diagnosed with hip dysplasia. How much can I give of all those supplements without over working his body?
> 
> Hip Dysplasia in Dogs: Diagnosis, Treatment, and Prevention
> 
> I stumbled upon this article here about all the supplements I can give as well. Any suggestions for how much of what a 70 pound dog can receive on a daily basis?


You can do all of the different categories with a dog at the same time. If you are using commercial products, use the labeled dose. Otherwise I put the doses in the original post.

I'm on my phone, so I didn't go to the site you linked. I'll try to remember to come back here after I get on a real computer.


----------



## alliruiz

I don't think anyone has mentioned this but it's been a miracle worker on my family's goldens. Lifevantage Canine Health. I started distributing it because I couldn't believe what it did for a couple of our older girls, Shasta, 15, and Betty, 13. It's been amazing the difference they've had in arthritis and joint health.


----------



## Jennifer1

Great post, my 12+ yr old lab was just diagnosed with pretty bad elbow arthritis.

I'm starting him on adequan
He's been on G/C for most of his life but I just started him on Arthrisoothe gold hip and joint formula (750mg gluc, 750mgMSM, 180mg cond, 135mg yucca, 135mg boswellia, 32mg type II collagen, 5mg HLA, & 5IU vit E)

I've also had him on Carlsons salmon oil since he was about 3 (dx with discoid lupus), he's been on 1000mg daily

I plan on starting him on vit E & C.

If he had a splenectomy 6 mo ago (benign!) is there any risk to upping his fish oil dosage to a more antiinflammatory level?

I have vetorofen and tramadol for giving him some relief on days he's in more severe pain but I'd like to be more cautious with using those


----------



## seeana

Hi come through two ops on Shanes Cruciate ligament a few months ago got an infection had to be redone poor darling he has arthritis in the other back leg,completed the Adequan course and then after about two weeks he went backwards so instead of the monthly injection will have to give it every fortnight as after the injection he was a different dog the next day it really works'also Onsior tab every day plus Glucosamine and six 1200mg fish oil but going to change to Krill same dose as its supposed to be so much better' I also suffer from Arthritis so will try it too.
For the last 3 months its been very hot here and the Goldie's do not like it prefering to stay inside with the Air con,makes it hard as Shane simply wont walk far ...he huffs and puffs in the heat' trouble is our dam is drying up so he cant go for a swim.

Cant hope we sell the farm soon so we can get a place close to the Sea also' it must have a swimming pool as Shane would never be out of it ...just hope he is still with us as all that non weight bearing exercise would be great for him.


----------



## Kelly Brooklyn

My vet recommended Curcumin for Brooklyn's joint health. I found this product online and have been giving it to her for a few months and her mobility has improved a lot! :wavey:

Curcumin For Pets--Dog Limping and Aching Joints


----------



## seeana

The latest treatment as I posted in my thread earlier today is that I have also found that Rosehip Vital powder has really helped Shane with his arthritis along with Vit E and Fish Oil.
I will also look into Curcumin as well even though poor old Shane really rattles when he walks with all the various Capsuels he is getting a day about twenty so far but as long as they can make his life easier that is what counts.
Alas Adequan stopped working after a while as did Onsior so I think that Shane was getting worse so will have to try and stay one jump ahead.
The main thing is that he is happy ...spoiling him I know and he is taking full advantage of it but hey" the joy brings to us cannot be measured.


----------



## stephsousa

Great post! We love Nordic Naturals fish oil for ourselves and our dogs!


----------



## TheCrewAndUs

it does seem a lot to give 5 pills of 1200mg of fish oil (with 360mg of omega 3). 
Milo is about 70lbs and Elle is about 60lbs. Is it OK to give them 5 pills each per day?


----------



## Penny & Maggie's Mom

Ellejee said:


> it does seem a lot to give 5 pills of 1200mg of fish oil (with 360mg of omega 3).
> Milo is about 70lbs and Elle is about 60lbs. Is it OK to give them 5 pills each per day?


It is really hard in many cases to get enough DHA/EPA with pills without giving lots of pills. I use the liquid Carlson's Finest Fish Oil.... a human product, one tsp has 1300 mg of EPA/DHA, so 1-2 tsp/day is all they need.


----------



## IowaGold

Ellejee said:


> it does seem a lot to give 5 pills of 1200mg of fish oil (with 360mg of omega 3).
> Milo is about 70lbs and Elle is about 60lbs. Is it OK to give them 5 pills each per day?


Yep! Perfectly OK. Might want to work up to it to avoid any potential for stomach upsets.


----------



## Blackberie

*What is everyone's experience with Niacinamide?*

My golden is about 74 lbs and has degenerative arthritis and hip dysplasia. I'm giving him the pet naturals formula of glucosamine msm and chondroitin and all that. Also he is getting Vitamin E + Selenium. I stopped giving him Niacinamide because I know that can easily make him nauseous. Once I stopped giving him that, he never seemed to be sick after that. I was curious what everyone else was doing on a daily basis and if they have any experience with this. 

Thanks!!


----------



## Brave

Ellejee said:


> it does seem a lot to give 5 pills of 1200mg of fish oil (with 360mg of omega 3).
> Milo is about 70lbs and Elle is about 60lbs. Is it OK to give them 5 pills each per day?


I know this has been answered, but yes.  we give Bear 5000 mg of fish oil (5/1000 mg pills which each contain 300 mg of the dha/epa stuff.) a day. When we told the vet, she had a conniption fit until I broke it down for her and she compared it to their "preferred joint supplement" at which point she said, I could be giving more!!!! Lol!!


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----------



## TonyRay

Has anyone ever used Pharmaceutical grade Glucostimine?
it's pure powder form..[not sure on spelling here..]


----------



## Misty/Julie

coppers-mom said:


> I've been giving Copper 1 fish oil capsule a day. No wonder it didn't seem to have any effect. I'll start increasing his dose today.
> 
> Thank you for the info.
> 
> His ortho vet recommended SAM-e and said some dogs respond as well to that as rimadyl or other NSAID. I'm trying it for Copper.:crossfing


Can you tell me more about Sam-e?


----------



## Artnlibsmom

Has anyone tried Annamaets endure?

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----------



## Penny & Maggie's Mom

I'm using Endure with Penny and Cody right now and they seem to be doing well on it. Maggie has had some allergy issues so I've stopped anything new for her, but will try it again later. The vet seems to think her issues are environmental, but I'm back to basics for her just to be sure.


----------



## corkielovesgoldens

Anyone have experience with BeanGreens Joint Shield powder? This is the supplement my dog chiropractor has recommended for Honey's arthritis. She is also on a fish oil liquid. The ingredients are as follows: 
Per scoop- Glucosamine 3,400 mg
Hyaluronic Acid 100mg
Chondroitin Sulfate 2,500 mg
MSM 3,400 mg
Boswellia 250 mg
Bromelain
Nettle
Calcium (Alfalfa)
Boron (Beet Root Powder)


----------



## Skeene

I have a friend who sells Pratandim and they have a line for dogs. It's all natural and they reduce oxidative stress in both humans and dogs. If anyone would like information, let me know or you can research on your own and find someone that distributes it. I am considering starting my puppy on them at 6 months. I am not here to sell anything for her or myself, I just know she has told me many stories of this helping dogs with joint issues, especially Goldens


----------



## seeana

I have pretty much tried everything for my wonderful Golden Shane as he was crippled with arthritis and stiffness even after his cruciate lig op.
Cosequin , Glucosamine and the injections did not help one little bit and the metacam no longer works ,duramax is impossible to get now,using previcox although expensive helps him but not enough. 
I was at my wits end then' heard from the greyhound breeders that Rosehip vital really works so without much hope gave it a try ...I give Shane 15 caps a day as he will swallow them in his food and its exactly the same as the Canine rosehip.
It started to make a difference after a fortnight and he is going for his walks again how it works I have no idea but it does,I also put 5 fish oil and one vit E caps in his food.
In himself he has never felt better his coat is like silk and his eyes are shining again he is nearly 12 yrs and getting very cheeky and bossy again bless him.

If at first you dont succeed keep trying until you do because there is an answer out there 90% of the time.


----------



## dezymond

Thank you for posting this information. I was just about to make a thread wondering what Joint supplements to give Maverick, but have found that information here. I am opting for Cosequin Double strength, but will do more research before making the purchase.


----------



## msc

Where is the best place to get rosehip vital powder for dogs?


----------



## seeana

*Rose Hip Vital.*

Hi' just google best price for Rose Hip Vital Canine for your area.
In Australia we can get it from reputable site on Ebay and Vet products online.
The prices range from under $100 for the powder 500 grams and for the Human one (no difference) from $35 for 250 caps Shane gets 15 caps a day mixed in his food, the good thing about the caps is they are tasteless Shane is quite fussy so it really works.
They say after 3 weeks cut the dosage in half tried that and the pain came back so he is on 15 caps a day all the time. :wavey:


----------



## vleffingwell

I have been using NuVet supplements for over a year now and they work great!


----------



## 3 goldens

Honey does not like to take pills in any form. However, we do manage to fool here with milk thistle and cranberry gels added to her food. But she picks around hard pills and getting her to swallow them is a night mare. SOOOOO I started putting powdered NutroJoint on her food and that way she gets the joint supplement she needs.

We adopted her 11 years ago come Dec. 7 and we was fully grown and heart worm positive when we adopted her. So she will be 12 very soon, if not already. She has a touch of arthritis in her hips, but watching her jump and bounce around you would nto know it. I am just thankful for the joint care in powder form.


----------



## msc

Are there any foods that will help with arthritis?
Struggling with this.
On fish oil and glucosamine.


----------



## tine434

I noticed my dog food has glucosamine and chondroitin... is that a normal thing for dog food to have? I was reading the adult food package closer because it's what Rem will be eating soon. I was sort of impressed because I didn't realize food carried that

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----------



## 3inarow

My 21 month old has severe elbow dysplasia. He takes Cosequin, fish oil and cetyl-myrestoleate which is a whole body anti inflammatory and helps boost immune system. He also gets veterinary orthopedic manipulation once a month or so. He is doing fantastic.


----------



## Blackberie

The two supplements that have worked wonders for my golden are 

1. NaturVet ArthriSoothe Gold

NaturVet ArthriSoothe-GOLD Hip & Joint Stage 3 Advanced Formula Dog & Cat Soft Chews

2. Zyflamend

New Chapter, Zyflamend, Whole Body, 180 Softgels - iHerb.com

They are such great supplements. My golden has been running around like he's a puppy for the last 2 years, ever since he was diagnosed with Hip Dysplasia and Arthritis.


----------



## Blackberie

I have followed this vet too who is absolutely incredible!!!! Read this article!!!

7 things you should know about arthritis and stiffness in dogs.


----------



## Sandy's Dad

Does anyone have a recommendation on where to get reasonably priced high strength fish oil?

Vet recommended 850-1415mg of EPA daily, we have been buying the fish oil at the grocery store but just recently realized the amount per serving is actually per 2 capsules, so we have been giving her a half dose. So that means she needs to get about 6-7 pills per day (seems like a lot), that means we get a little more than a month out of a $20 250 pill bottle. Do we have any other options?

She is also on other supplements but I think we have those nailed down pretty well, just trying to figure out the fish oil/EPA at this point.


----------



## lhowemt

Costco has a pretty inexpensive variety.


----------



## ilysu

Hey guys i am thinking about trying Nutramax's joint supplement do you recommend it ? or do you have any recommendations ?


----------



## CAROLINA MOM

My two are currently getting a daily tablet of Dasuquin with MSM, it was recommended by my Vet. My two are both rescues, I adopted them at age 2, one is 6 and the other is 10 now. 

I'm giving it to them as a preventative because I knew very little to nothing about their backgrounds or history. I also give them Fish oil tablets and a vitamin E tabet. 

If you go to the *first page* of this thread, Member IowaGold who is a Vet, started this thread and put this info together about Joint supplements.


----------



## ilysu

My dog is rescued too i adopt her from a shelter when she was only 3 months old so i dont know any background history too but later when vets take xrays of her hip we saw that she already has a serious hip problem so i really want to try supplements before surgery. Does fish oil and vitamin E are regular ones that humans use that i can find anywhere


----------



## cgriffin

Yes, you can use the human type if there is not doggie type available. Just look the dosage recommendations which I think are in the beginning of this thread.


----------



## CAROLINA MOM

Yes, I am following the recommended dosages that are given on the first page of this thread.


----------



## mariontl

I have a 12 1/2 yr old lab with arthritis. I was using liquid Flexicose for him and a previous dog with great effect. (For people and pets) It is all natural and contains glucosamine, chondroitin,msm, yucca root,etc. But I had to order it online from the U.S. at Flexicose.com and am in Canada. I decided to try something different and looked at all the stuff for people at the drug store. Decided to buy the Life brand of a bottle of tablets that contain 1300 mg msg/chondroitin/msm. I give 2 tabs per day in his raw food along with salmon oil 1000 mg.It really works.


----------



## happydognutrition

We would love to help! We will giveaway 5 bottles of Renew Extra-Strength liquid glucosamine for $1 (read about it at http://amztk.com/glucosaminefordogs) - Please send us an email to [email protected] and we will send you a coupon code for Amazon.com.


----------



## GoldenCamper

happydognutrition said:


> We would love to help! We will giveaway 5 bottles of Renew Extra-Strength liquid glucosamine for $1 (read about it at Amazon.com : Glucosamine for Dogs with Chondroitin & MSM Liquid Hip & Joint Supplement For Maximum Nutrient Absorption Compared to Chewables ♥ Prevent Poor Joint Health & Renew Older Dogs Aching Joints ♥ 100% Money Back GUARANTEE &#x266) - Please send us an email to [email protected] and we will send you a coupon code for Amazon.com.


Boy has this forum turned into ad central. Spend your 49 bucks a month to be a vendor and spam away. 89% of 5 star reviews on Amazon? How many of those reviews are real and not paid for I wonder.

5 bottles for a dollar eh? I'm not fooled. I do wish you luck in your business however. For all I know your supplement could make a difference for some. Lots of competition for supplements in the old pup arthritis world.

Been there done that, supplements are not magic remedies.


----------



## 3 goldens

I have 11 1/2 year old Sophie on Cosequin and have for about 2 weeks and It does seem to be doing what it says. I do think I am going to start our Great Pyrenees, Moose on it ---he is 8, but not showing any signs of arthritis at all.

I give them fish oil caps also, he gets 3 daily, she gets 2. Except on the days I hae them tuna or mackerel. Get no fish oil those days. We joke that her coat has a shine it we almost need sunglass to look at her.


----------



## happydognutrition

GoldenCamper said:


> Boy has this forum turned into ad central. Spend your 49 bucks a month to be a vendor and spam away. 89% of 5 star reviews on Amazon? How many of those reviews are real and not paid for I wonder.
> 
> 5 bottles for a dollar eh? I'm not fooled. I do wish you luck in your business however. For all I know your supplement could make a difference for some. Lots of competition for supplements in the old pup arthritis world.
> 
> Been there done that, supplements are not magic remedies.



GoldenCamper, while the way I worded the promotion may confuse you, we are offering one bottle for $1 and we will offer this deal to 5 people. I know it's hard to believe that there are costs involved in running a website (this forum) and they support those costs with advertisers like me but that's just the way it is on every website...

Not sure who was trying to fool you but were happy you didn't get fooled?

Anyway, nobody said supplements are magic remedies but supplements can make a huge difference in a dogs health and well being. This is a supplement we gave to our dogs months before making it available to the public and it works very well.


----------



## happydognutrition

Some had emailed us yesterday for a free bottle of Renew, please private message us on here to get your coupon code. Thank you.


----------



## GoldenCamper

happydognutrition said:


> GoldenCamper, while the way I worded the promotion may confuse you, we are offering one bottle for $1 and we will offer this deal to 5 people.


Yes your lack of articulateness of English language confused me, thank you for the clarification.




happydognutrition said:


> Some had emailed us yesterday for a free bottle of Renew, please private message us on here to get your coupon code. Thank you.


Now it is free? 

Not going for it once again but wish you luck.

Where might the source of the ingredients in your product come from exactly? Where is your product made and by whom?


----------



## Tennyson

Husband and wife make it in Colorado. Couldn't get the source for the ingredients.
The horse tail ingredient threw me off.
I'll stick with the Grizzly Salmon Oil and the MSM-COS from Walgreens when the time comes.


----------



## GoldenCamper

Tennyson said:


> Husband and wife make it in Colorado. Couldn't get the source for the ingredients.
> The horse tail ingredient threw me off.
> I'll stick with the Grizzly Salmon Oil.


Horse tail ingredient? I did not bother looking into it as far as you have so can't comment on that. 

Perhaps this new vendor can clarify our questions? If you or the vendor could kindly provide a link to ingredients I would like to see it!


----------



## Tennyson

Horsetail herb. Mostly silica. Keeps tissues connected, I think.


----------



## GoldenCamper

Tennyson said:


> Horsetail herb. Mostly silica. Keeps tissues connected, I think.


Well stupid me, I thought they incorporated real horse tails!


----------



## anamcouto

Very interesting information, thank you so much for sharing the experience and research.

My 5month baby Ella was diagnosed with hip dysplasia after a knee injury (torn ligament), the outcome of a very nasty fall after an adventurous attempt of jumping obstcules (silly girl) me and the vet decided to do the X-Ray with the excuse of this injured although we didn't really needed it to do diagnose. So on her 5month birthday Ella was diagnosed with Hip Dysplasia. The vet started her immediately on Synoquin for medium breed (loading dose) and ordered Synoquin Growth (glucosamine HCI combined with Chondroitin) for dogs that will be over 25kg adult weight.

We live in Macau and let's just say large breed dogs are not common except on the expats that bring them from their origin countries, reputable breeders is pretty much an illusion so getting anything suitable for a golden is not easy from toys to beds and food these people are into toy dogs ? 
I've seen a good improvement on her morning stiffness and we are trying to teach her how to swim in the beach (small waves) to improve her muscles, I'm thinking what else can we do to improve her life quality.

Considering adding fish oil as supplement and maybe vitamin C and E but I confess I'm a bit confused with dosage etc. wondering if Sarah would be kind enough on mentioning some brands

Ella is now 5 months and half 22kilos and adorable ?


----------



## CAROLINA MOM

Welcome to the forum. Your Ella is adorable. 

Member IowaGold is a Vet here in the states, below I have copied her original post from page 1 of this thread below with the dosage amount. I am giving my two adults Dasuquin with MSM and following the dosages of Vit. E and Fish Oil Iowa Gold recommended.



anamcouto said:


> Very interesting information, thank you so much for sharing the experience and research.
> 
> My 5month baby Ella was diagnosed with hip dysplasia after a knee injury (torn ligament), the outcome of a very nasty fall after an adventurous attempt of jumping obstcules (silly girl) me and the vet decided to do the X-Ray with the excuse of this injured although we didn't really needed it to do diagnose. So on her 5month birthday Ella was diagnosed with Hip Dysplasia. The vet started her immediately on Synoquin for medium breed (loading dose) and ordered Synoquin Growth (glucosamine HCI combined with Chondroitin) for dogs that will be over 25kg adult weight.
> 
> We live in Macau and let's just say large breed dogs are not common except on the expats that bring them from their origin countries, reputable breeders is pretty much an illusion so getting anything suitable for a golden is not easy from toys to beds and food these people are into toy dogs
> I've seen a good improvement on her morning stiffness and we are trying to teach her how to swim in the beach (small waves) to improve her muscles, I'm thinking what else can we do to improve her life quality.
> 
> Considering adding fish oil as supplement and maybe vitamin C and E but I confess I'm a bit confused with dosage etc. wondering if Sarah would be kind enough on mentioning some brands
> 
> Ella is now 5 months and half 22kilos and adorable





> *Supplements, etc. for Arthritis/Joint Problems*
> Reading through the threads here, it's easy to see that joint problems (be they hip or elbow dysplasia, cruciate injuries, or just plain arthritis from advanced age) are a common source of questions. As my own young dog was recently diagnosed and treated for elbow dysplasia, I've been doing a lot of research on the Veterinary Information Network (VIN) to determine what supplements (if any) have merit for my girl who is only a year old and already has DJD (dengerative joint disease). Here's what I have come up with from VIN as far as supplements:
> 
> Some supplements have been proven to reduce inflammation. Individual supplements can be efficacious in individual dogs - not every supplement will produce profound results in every dog. Because of their very natures, the supplements listed below are extremely unlikely to have unpleasant side effects so their potential to help far outweighs their potential to harm. Collectively, they are recommended as a first line of defense in all dogs with DJD. In fact the following supplement are so benign, that most of them would be entirely appropriate to give to dogs not currently suffering from, but at increased risk of developing, DJD.
> 
> 1. Glycosaminoglycans: Glycosaminoglycans are a source of cartilage-matrix molecules which are the components and precursors to cell synthesis, increase the production of synovial fluid, and neutralize the damaging effects of free radicals.
> 
> A. Adequan® injections. The label dose is twice weekly for 8 doses. Many veterinarians will continue to maintain their DJD patients with injections every 1 to 4 months (or more often in severe cases).
> -Adequan® injections will reach adequate blood and tissue levels much quicker than oral products.
> 
> B. Oral Glucosamine/Chondroitin supplements. These should start at the same time as the Adequan injections. By the time the semi-weekly Adequan® injections are completed, the oral supplements have had time to achieve sufficient blood levels.
> -The joint products made by Nutramax Laboratories, Inc. (Cosequin® and Dasuquin®) are the only ones that have credible efficacy data in dogs, but that does not mean that other products are not effective. You do need to be careful as many products do not actually contain the stated amounts of supplement.
> 
> 
> 2. Omega 3 Fatty Acids: Fish oil, or more specifically EPA and DHA, has been proven to decrease inflammation and is helpful in most inflammatory processes (DJD, allergies, cancer, etc.).
> 
> A. The anti-inflammatory dose of fish oil is approximately 300mg of combined EPA/DHA per 10 pounds of body weight. This is typically one 1000-1200mg fish oil capsule per 10 pounds.
> 
> B. Some fish oil supplements have been shown to contain unacceptably high levels of mercury and other contaminants. You can check the rating of a potential fish oil supplement at the following sites:
> -Environmental Defense Fund: http://www.edf.org/page.cfm?tagID=16536
> -International Fish Oil Standards: IFOS Home | The International Fish Oil Standards Program
> 
> 3. Antioxidants: Antioxidants neutralize the damaging effects of free radicals which can start chain reactions that damage cells.
> 
> A. A general antioxidant supplement should contain components such as bioflavonoids, vitamins E and C, selenium, zinc, and manganese which are all good antioxidants.
> 
> B. Vitamin E: This fat soluble vitamin is not only a powerful antioxidant but will also help with the absorption and utilization of fish oils.
> -Natural (d-alpha) vitamin E is more efficacious than synthetic (dl-alpha).
> -Large dogs should receive approximately 400 IU per day (smaller dogs, approximately 200 IU). Many general antioxidant supplements contain some vitamin E, but the amounts included are unlikely to reach the recommended level of vitamin E, so supplementary quantities can be given to achieve the desired level.
> 
> C. Vitamin C: This water soluble vitamin is another powerful antioxidant.
> -Dogs naturally produce vitamin C, but given the possible benefit and the lack of potential harm, adding additional vitamin C may be prudent. Excess vitamin C will be eliminated in the urine.
> -Large dogs can receive 1000mg or more per day (small dogs, 500mg); ideally split into morning and evening doses as vitamin C is quickly eliminated from the body.
> -Massive doses have been known to cause loose stools so it is advisable to slowly increase vitamin C supplementation to the desired level.
> 
> D. S-adenosyl methionine (SAM-e): SAM-e has been shown to improve cartilage metabolism. It has also increases glutathione levels, especially in the liver (glutathione is a natural antioxidant).
> -Denosyl® and Denamarin® are the only brands of SAM-e researched in U.S. trials for dogs and cats.
> -After an induction period (perhaps one 30-day supply), it is reasonable to decrease the dose to every other day or twice weekly due to the significant cost of daily supplementation.
> -An added benefit is protecting the liver from the potentially harmful effects of NSAIDs, if the DJD progresses to the point where these drugs are needed.
> 
> 
> 4. Niacinamide (aka Nicotinamide): This water soluble B vitamin has demonstrated some anti-inflammatory properties. Note that Niacinamide is not the same as Niacin.
> -Large dogs should receive 500mg per day; small dogs, 250mg per day.
> 
> 
> 5. Methylsulfonylmethane (MSM): MSM is potentially anti-inflammatory. It may not help, but is extremely unlikely to harm. It is included in some glucosamine/chondroitin products.
> 
> None of the above supplements have been proven to prevent the development of DJD. Dogs are notoriously good at hiding the early signs of DJD, though, so early supplementation could potentially achieve the result of having physiologic levels of the supplements in the body when the first damage is done, long before the dog exhibits clear signs of DJD. Therefore, dogs at risk of developing DJD may potentially benefit from supplementation with oral glucosamine/chondroitin supplements (+/- MSM), fish oil (perhaps drop the dose to half the anti-inflammatory dose), and a general antioxidant supplement with supplemental vitamins E and possibly C.


----------



## Daisy's dad

Thank you for this thread. My 8 1/2 year old golden has started getting stiff in the shoulders and I came here looking around for some tips. I've started giving her cosequin and 5 fish oil capsules a day, based on the info I found here. It's been about a month and a half and she seems to be doing noticeably better. As a bonus, her coat looks great. I thought it was pretty good before but, the fish oil made it even better. So much so that I've started giving a couple a day to my shepherd and his dry itchy coat is now soft. I wish I'd known about this when my old golden was still around. It could have helped him out too.


----------



## Daisy's dad

Enjoying her new and improved joints







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[/URL][/IMG]


----------



## Goldylover2

Here's a site that some of you might find interesting. http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/products/Only-Natural-Pet-Glucosamine--Asta/999072.aspx This is where I shop for all my dogs needs. Whether it be vitamins, glucosamine or flee meds. My last golden had some joint pain when she was around 7 years old. I gave here the glucosamine + asta pills and it worked wonders. She started to get up off our wood floors much easier. My current golden gets 3 pills a day. A daily vitamin, a probiotic and brewers yeast and garlic tablets. Yeast and garlic tablets are to help prevent flea and tick attacks.


----------



## Bernard99

*Help, bad hip dysplasia*

Help...any advice very welcome.

We took our beautiful 17 month old golden retriever to have her hips and elbows X-rayed/scored as we wondered about breeding from her. 

We received some devastating news. Her elbows are fine but her hips are terrible, they said both hips are very bad and her hips score was 85!

We obviously will not be breeding from her now, but we are very concerned about her further. The vet said just see how she goes as she is not showing any signs of pain and is very fit. She is slim and happy and has very good muscle around her hips.
Do you think we should put her on vitamins... look at operating or just see how she goes?

We want to make her life as happy/pain free as possible, and wonder if seeking interventions now would be sensible or silly as she isnot suffering?

Also, I was wondering if we should get her spayed, someone said not to as she will need her hormones to help with her hip strength and having her spayed can cause other problems?

Thanks

Bernard


----------



## anamcouto

Bernard99 said:


> Help...any advice very welcome.
> 
> We took our beautiful 17 month old golden retriever to have her hips and elbows X-rayed/scored as we wondered about breeding from her.
> 
> We received some devastating news. Her elbows are fine but her hips are terrible, they said both hips are very bad and her hips score was 85!
> 
> We obviously will not be breeding from her now, but we are very concerned about her further. The vet said just see how she goes as she is not showing any signs of pain and is very fit. She is slim and happy and has very good muscle around her hips.
> Do you think we should put her on vitamins... look at operating or just see how she goes?
> 
> We want to make her life as happy/pain free as possible, and wonder if seeking interventions now would be sensible or silly as she isnot suffering?
> 
> Also, I was wondering if we should get her spayed, someone said not to as she will need her hormones to help with her hip strength and having her spayed can cause other problems?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Bernard



Put her on glucosamine supplement and maybe green lip mussel also if she's not showing pain or big trouble walking my vet suggested to try and avoid surgery and focus on trying to improve her muscle mass by swimming (to avoid the body weight and impact) also very carefully monitored diet to keep her lean. That was the advice of my vet and the ortho surgeon for my girl that was diagnosed at the age of 5months (she's now 7monthe and I see big difference with the supplements) ask a ortho surgeon opinion on surgery if delay or not and if it's a go ahead the different options.
And definitely spay her to avoid the possibility of breeding this genetic recurring problem to new puppies and also to protect her from the additional weight of a pregnancy.

I've posted a indicative dosage but suggest to have double check with your vet and also see how she reacts, after a month or so you will understand if she needs more or if you can save up a bit and invest in other things she may need

Keep strong it is not the end of the world she can still have a very happy life with you


----------



## Dennis Thomas DVM

Hi. I remember a wise old veterinarian saying that food trumps genetics every time. My experience tells me that too much starch in the diet precipitates inflammation. This is why many years ago they started making large-breed puppy food that basically reduced starchy carb. levels. I have worked with a lot of dysplastic dogs, some that were in need of hip replacement surgery, with Chinese medicine (acupuncture and herbs) as well as joint supplements (acetyl-m) and diet modification. High-protein, low carb diets keep the excess weight off (% body fat) and promote lean muscle, all which support joint function. Good luck.


----------



## doggymom

Great Post! Thank You so much. I need to increase the fish oil, too. Been giving only 1 capsule a day. I didn't want my girl to have loose stools. She also gets a t. of golden paste(turmeric) and 1 t. of coconut oil on her food 2 times day. I too, give her the Dasaquin MS 2 times daily. She's a seizure dog and is on phenobarbital 2 time daily and it seems to be working. Thanks again!

Charlotte & Kassie-girl


----------



## GeorgesParents

George is healthy and happy but after one day at the beach he limped for one day and since does this struggle to stand from lying down... He does play happily and walks normally too, no sign of discomfort.

We realized he had also been to the agility part 3 times in a week, could he have pulled something or should I be worried about more serious hip problems/arthritis?

Hip Dyplasia? Arthritis? Or just achy? - Gfycat
Please watch the video and let me know what you think. Would supplements be enough to help him out?


----------



## GoldenCamper

GeorgesParents said:


> George is healthy and happy but after one day at the beach he limped for one day and since does this struggle to stand from lying down... He does play happily and walks normally too, no sign of discomfort.
> 
> We realized he had also been to the agility part 3 times in a week, could he have pulled something or should I be worried about more serious hip problems/arthritis?
> 
> Hip Dyplasia? Arthritis? Or just achy? - Gfycat
> Please watch the video and let me know what you think. Would supplements be enough to help him out?


I wouldn't call that struggling to get up by viewing your link. Supplements certainly have benefits. In the meantime just give him a rest.


----------



## doggymom

Thanks for posting. Very informative.


----------



## doggymom

Iowa Gold

Thanks again for putting together all of this information. It is so helpful for those of us struggling to find ways to keep our 4 legged friends comfortable. I was aware of most of the things you mentioned, but didn't know the dosages. Thanks again.

Oh, one other thing. What are the adaquan injections?


----------



## doggymom

May I ask if the 5 fish oil capsules has caused any loose stools? I am hesitant to give Kassie too much. Didn't know how this might affect the stools?


----------



## doggymom

Looks to me like maybe it's your slick floors. I have had to put down throw rugs in certain places in my kitchen because Kassie does struggle to get up off the slick hardwood floors. She has arthritis in her right hip. Your fur-babe is definitely not on the heavy side. That's good. My girl is right at 71 lbs.


----------



## doggymom

*What are adequan injections?*

*Thanks,*
*Charlotte*


----------



## Ljilly28

I gave adequate injections to my dog Finn, and they were helpful combined with other things. It is really expensive, and there is a bit of debate if the injections need to be IM. polysulfated glycosaminoglycan is its real name if I spelled it right, and it is a big thing in sport horses. My dog had very painful spine, and I saw a difference. I gave the shots myself- not sure if I think it is a first choice depending.


----------



## doggymom

Re-reading all the postings, especially yours, Sara. Thanks so much for all the valuable information and doseages. My girl is about 73 lbs and I have not been giving her near enough fish oil. I love the Dasaquin MS. Going to check into the Adequen injections. My girl doesn't want to put the full weight on her right hind leg. Vet has told me she has osteo-arthritis. Again, appreciate all your hard work. 

Charlotte & Kassie Girl


----------



## Blackberie

Hey everyone,

I was on here a few years ago for my golden retriever. My golden is now 8 years old and he is still running around perfectly! Here is what I've been doing

1. Glyco Flex- Stage 1-3. I currently have him on stage 1 because he didn't need the higher level stages. Definitely look them up, they are miracles. They contain all the stuff we have said previously- glucosamine etc.
2. Zyflamend- I learned about this from Dr. Peter Dobias, the holistic vet. It's a natural anti-inflammatory. It contains organic herbs to help reduce inflammation, and has worked wonders.
3. I sprinkle Turmeric on his food. Natural anti-inflammatory, also great for preventing cancer and free radicals etc. 
4. Fish oil- as you all know the omega 3's and 6's are crucial.

He's 8 years old now and still running strong! Talk about proving my old vet wrong.

During this time I switched to a more holistic vet. He's been getting acupuncture to reduce inflammation as well. Another crucial aspect is to make sure you aren't giving your dog food with any fillers like soybean, grains, wheat flour etc. I feed my dogs raw, and when I'm being lazy, Orijen. Champion pet foods make Orijen and Acana, both top notch dry foods. Feel free to message me for questions or concerns!

Mike


----------



## jethugh

Have you had any problems with ear infections etc. my poor Max keeps having problems I have racked up $800 vet bills and infections still come back. I was trying to find any solutions to keep ears clear by other remedies. If anyone knows info please email at
[email protected]
Thx 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Harleysmum

Ear infections often clear up entirely with a change to raw diet.


----------



## ggdenny

I hope there are still some visitors to this thread. I'm starting Duke, our 9.5 years old tripawd boy, on Dasuquin and Nordic Naturals Omega 3 liquid today. Can someone help me with determining the daily amount of Omega 3 for him. He's 50-55 pounds and label says that one teaspoon is equal to 1560mg total Omega 3, 745mg EPA and 500mg DHA. For his weight how much should Duke get per day?


----------



## CAROLINA MOM

ggdenny said:


> I hope there are still some visitors to this thread. I'm starting Duke, our 9.5 years old tripawd boy, on Dasuquin and Nordic Naturals Omega 3 liquid today. Can someone help me with determining the daily amount of Omega 3 for him. He's 50-55 pounds and label says that one teaspoon is equal to 1560mg total Omega 3, 745mg EPA and 500mg DHA. For his weight how much should Duke get per day?


Here is info from Nordic's website dosage info-

Product Details



> Suggested daily use for dogs 19-79 lbs.
> 20-39 lbs: 0.5 teaspoon (2.5 mL) (94 servings/bottle)
> 391 mg EPA/230 mg DHA/713 mg total omega-3s
> *40-59 lbs: 1.0 teaspoon (5.0 mL) (47 servings/bottle)*
> 782 mg EPA/460 mg DHA/1426 mg total omega-3s
> 60-79 lbs: 1.5 teaspoons (7.5 mL) (31 servings/bottle)
> 1173 mg EPA/690 mg DHA/2139 mg total omega-3s
> *Do not exceed the suggested daily use without consulting your Veterinarian.
> *


I put the recommended dosage for your boy's weight in bold.

There's more info at the link above about this product.


----------



## zoegirl0213

*Post Elbow Dysplasia Surgery*

My 1.5 year old female golden, Zoe, had Elbow endoscopy surgery on June 1. After surgery she still limped a little, so I decided that physical therapy could be beneficial (and my pet insurance covers most of it - yay!). Her surgeon had wanted to do PRP injections, but I wanted to try a less invasive option first. Her PT is swimming, ESWT (shockwave treatment), and laser treatment. The therapist gave her Ligaplex, taking 2 twice a day. She is already on Cosequin Max twice a day, and omega 3 supplements as well.
Her therapist recommended the supplement - LubriSyn HA. Has anyone used that? I've read a few reviews on Amazon and Chewy, but wanted to see if any fellow golden owners have used it in a similar situation.


----------



## Ivyacres

Since Honey's 9 and the years are starting to show, I revisited this thread today. It's very informative.


----------



## jeffscott947

My 14.5 yr old Border Collie was going downhill fast. She was within days of my having to help her over the Rainbow Bridge. As a last try I bought these. Note: I have never had any success with this type of supplement with other older dogs. 



She has bad elbows and a growth on her side that has been getting bigger of late. One night it looked like the end, and I almost took her to the emergency room to be PTS. I remembered these at a close by Walmart and bought a bag. Within 2 weeks, she was like a new dog..running and playing with my other dogs. That was 4 weeks ago and I thought it might just be a last spurt. NO..She is enjoying her life once again and I am very thankful. No illusions, but it can't simply be a coincidence..something wonderful happened


https://www.amazon.com/VetIQ-Maximum-Strength-Joint-Supplement/dp/B01BLGTV60/ref=sr_1_5?gclid=Cj0KCQjw0IDtBRC6ARIsAIA5gWsdE-jPIkr4FPh1xzLAWpLlhu8_Xvf3MBABI1DceilRgcI-WhRFOkkaAsd0EALw_wcB&hvadid=178360922380&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9030898&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1t1&hvqmt=b&hvrand=7799069395585534263&hvtargid=kwd-186044700081&hydadcr=15918_9887393&keywords=vetiq+hip+%26+joint+chews+for+dogs&qid=1570801039&sr=8-5


----------



## laurel35

Omega-3 fatty acids definitely work to reduce inflammation! You just have to make sure they're water soluble or that you mix them with something (cottage cheese, quark) to make them water soluble, or else they won't absorb.


----------



## Ivyacres

My vet suggested Nordic Naturals Omega- 3 for Honey. Honey also gets GlycoFlex3.


----------



## HappyMom

Great post! What are the names of antioxidant, fish oil, vit E Products that you are getting? Thanks!


----------



## tikiandme

HappyMom said:


> Great post! What are the names of antioxidant, fish oil, vit E Products that you are getting? Thanks!


My boy is 3 years old and 72 pounds. He gets one Dasuquin with MSM soft chew for large dogs and 2 600mg Carlson Super Omega 3 Gems capsules per day. This is to hopefully prevent joint problems since he is healthy so far.


----------



## Olivia O

IowaGold said:


> Reading through the threads here, it's easy to see that joint problems (be they hip or elbow dysplasia, cruciate injuries, or just plain arthritis from advanced age) are a common source of questions. As my own young dog was recently diagnosed and treated for elbow dysplasia, I've been doing a lot of research on the Veterinary Information Network (VIN) to determine what supplements (if any) have merit for my girl who is only a year old and already has DJD (dengerative joint disease). Here's what I have come up with from VIN as far as supplements:
> 
> Some supplements have been proven to reduce inflammation. Individual supplements can be efficacious in individual dogs - not every supplement will produce profound results in every dog. Because of their very natures, the supplements listed below are extremely unlikely to have unpleasant side effects so their potential to help far outweighs their potential to harm. Collectively, they are recommended as a first line of defense in all dogs with DJD. In fact the following supplement are so benign, that most of them would be entirely appropriate to give to dogs not currently suffering from, but at increased risk of developing, DJD.
> 
> 1. Glycosaminoglycans: Glycosaminoglycans are a source of cartilage-matrix molecules which are the components and precursors to cell synthesis, increase the production of synovial fluid, and neutralize the damaging effects of free radicals.
> 
> A. Adequan® injections. The label dose is twice weekly for 8 doses. Many veterinarians will continue to maintain their DJD patients with injections every 1 to 4 months (or more often in severe cases).
> -Adequan® injections will reach adequate blood and tissue levels much quicker than oral products.
> 
> B. Oral Glucosamine/Chondroitin supplements. These should start at the same time as the Adequan injections. By the time the semi-weekly Adequan® injections are completed, the oral supplements have had time to achieve sufficient blood levels.
> -The joint products made by Nutramax Laboratories, Inc. (Cosequin® and Dasuquin®) are the only ones that have credible efficacy data in dogs, but that does not mean that other products are not effective. You do need to be careful as many products do not actually contain the stated amounts of supplement.
> 
> 
> 2. Omega 3 Fatty Acids: Fish oil, or more specifically EPA and DHA, has been proven to decrease inflammation and is helpful in most inflammatory processes (DJD, allergies, cancer, etc.).
> 
> A. The anti-inflammatory dose of fish oil is approximately 300mg of combined EPA/DHA per 10 pounds of body weight. This is typically one 1000-1200mg fish oil capsule per 10 pounds.
> 
> B. Some fish oil supplements have been shown to contain unacceptably high levels of mercury and other contaminants. You can check the rating of a potential fish oil supplement at the following sites:
> -Environmental Defense Fund: http://www.edf.org/page.cfm?tagID=16536
> -International Fish Oil Standards: http://www.ifosprogram.com/IFOS/ConsumerReport.aspx
> 
> 3. Antioxidants: Antioxidants neutralize the damaging effects of free radicals which can start chain reactions that damage cells.
> 
> A. A general antioxidant supplement should contain components such as bioflavonoids, vitamins E and C, selenium, zinc, and manganese which are all good antioxidants.
> 
> B. Vitamin E: This fat soluble vitamin is not only a powerful antioxidant but will also help with the absorption and utilization of fish oils.
> -Natural (d-alpha) vitamin E is more efficacious than synthetic (dl-alpha).
> -Large dogs should receive approximately 400 IU per day (smaller dogs, approximately 200 IU). Many general antioxidant supplements contain some vitamin E, but the amounts included are unlikely to reach the recommended level of vitamin E, so supplementary quantities can be given to achieve the desired level.
> 
> C. Vitamin C: This water soluble vitamin is another powerful antioxidant.
> -Dogs naturally produce vitamin C, but given the possible benefit and the lack of potential harm, adding additional vitamin C may be prudent. Excess vitamin C will be eliminated in the urine.
> -Large dogs can receive 1000mg or more per day (small dogs, 500mg); ideally split into morning and evening doses as vitamin C is quickly eliminated from the body.
> -Massive doses have been known to cause loose stools so it is advisable to slowly increase vitamin C supplementation to the desired level.
> 
> D. S-adenosyl methionine (SAM-e): SAM-e has been shown to improve cartilage metabolism. It has also increases glutathione levels, especially in the liver (glutathione is a natural antioxidant).
> -Denosyl® and Denamarin® are the only brands of SAM-e researched in U.S. trials for dogs and cats.
> -After an induction period (perhaps one 30-day supply), it is reasonable to decrease the dose to every other day or twice weekly due to the significant cost of daily supplementation.
> -An added benefit is protecting the liver from the potentially harmful effects of NSAIDs, if the DJD progresses to the point where these drugs are needed.
> 
> 
> 4. Niacinamide (aka Nicotinamide): This water soluble B vitamin has demonstrated some anti-inflammatory properties. Note that Niacinamide is not the same as Niacin.
> -Large dogs should receive 500mg per day; small dogs, 250mg per day.
> 
> 
> 5. Methylsulfonylmethane (MSM): MSM is potentially anti-inflammatory. It may not help, but is extremely unlikely to harm. It is included in some glucosamine/chondroitin products.
> 
> None of the above supplements have been proven to prevent the development of DJD. Dogs are notoriously good at hiding the early signs of DJD, though, so early supplementation could potentially achieve the result of having physiologic levels of the supplements in the body when the first damage is done, long before the dog exhibits clear signs of DJD. Therefore, dogs at risk of developing DJD may potentially benefit from supplementation with oral glucosamine/chondroitin supplements (+/- MSM), fish oil (perhaps drop the dose to half the anti-inflammatory dose), and a general antioxidant supplement with supplemental vitamins E and possibly C.


I give my dog CBD treats to help him with his joint pain. He plays like a puppy again despite being 15 after eating Eden's Herbals CBD dog treats.


----------



## LanceMacy857

Hey everyone,

I was on here a few years ago for my golden retriever. My golden is now 8 years old and he is still running around perfectly! Here is what I've been doing

1. Glyco Flex- Stage 1-3. I currently have him on stage 1 because he didn't need the higher level stages. Definitely look them up, they are miracles. They contain all the stuff we have said previously- glucosamine etc.
2. Zyflamend- I learned about this from Dr. Peter Dobias, the holistic vet. It's a natural anti-inflammatory. It contains organic herbs to help reduce inflammation, and has worked wonders.
3. I sprinkle Turmeric on his food. Natural anti-inflammatory, also great for preventing cancer and free radicals etc.
4. Fish oil- as you all know the omega 3's and 6's are crucial.

He's 8 years old now and still running strong! Talk about proving my old vet wrong.

During this time I switched to a more holistic vet. He's been getting acupuncture to reduce inflammation as well. Another crucial aspect is to make sure you aren't giving your dog food with any fillers like soybean, grains, wheat flour etc. I feed my dogs raw, and when I'm being lazy, Orijen. Champion pet foods make Orijen and Acana, both top notch dry foods. Feel free to message me for questions or concerns!


----------



## I love goldens forever

IowaGold said:


> Currently my girl is getting the twice weekly Adequan injections, we're about 3 weeks into the treatment. She also has started Dasuquin tablets. I did start her with an "induction" dose, but will drop down to the maintenance dose when the twice weekly Adequan is finished (the induction dose is recommended for 4-6 weeks). She gets 5 fish oil capsules every day. I also have her on Denosyl-we're going to do a month of daily pills, then we'll go to twice weekly. We're also doing one capsule twice daily of the antioxidant tablets by Vetri-Science (Cell Advance 880). I'm not doing quite the full dose they recommend (1 capsule per 20#) simply because I'm going to go broke buying all the supplements for 3 dogs! And we're doing 400 IU vitamin E every other day (the Cell Advance has 75 IU per capsule) and 500mg vitamin C twice daily. My other dogs (75# senior; 60# middle aged) are getting all the same products and doses except I'm not doing Adequan or Denosyl with them mostly due to cost.
> 
> For anyone that's interested here's _my_ cost breakdown:
> 
> Adequan=$9/ml (which is one dose for 50#)
> Dasuquin=$.35/tablet (one tablet daily for 60-120# maintenance)
> Fish Oil=$.04/capsules (5 capsules per day)
> Denosyl=$1.33/tablet (one tablet per day induction, then 2X/week)
> Cell Advance=$.20/capsules (2 capsules per day)
> Vitamin E=$.10/capsule (1 capsule every other day)
> Vitamin C=<$.05/2 tablets (I don't really remember the cost, but it is cheap)
> 
> So average cost at maintenance (I probably should compute this...) is about $50/month or a bit less than $2 per day. This is for my ED girl. My "regular" dogs will cost about $30/month each. Dang all those things add up quick!


fantastic informaation. Thank You


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## sevans

Many of the arthritis treatments for dogs come to us from equine treatments. For my horses I have run the gamut from Legend, Adequan, Ossfoss, oral glucosamine, cortisone/hyaluronic acid joint injections, supplements. etc. I think some of them have big price tags, lots of hype and very little in the effectiveness department. I also think we all need to sometimes remind ourselves that there is no “cure” for arthritis.
We have an 11 year old Golden who had to have TPLO cruciate surgery two years ago. He made a great recovery but it is VERY expensive and specialized surgery- we were very fortunate that his injury came at a time when we had the resources and access to a board certified surgeon. We started him on oral salmon oil and glucosamine- both nutraceuticals that were suggested by the surgeon- who also told us that arthritis would eventually be inevitable.
In the last year, the inevitable began to manifest- at which time I started him on the same arthritis med that I have my horse on right now (she has OCD in her pastern).
The drug is called Pentosan and is sold as Cartrophan. Like Legend and Adequan- it is injectable (subcutaneous for canines) with four loading doses and then once a month. I have no problem giving injections- and your vet can tech you pretty quickly- but it IS expensive (especially for the horse). It is NOT an NSAID it is not a pain reliever- it is a unique approach which slows the advancement of arthritis.https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8683953/ We give him some mild pain relief on days that he seems to be sore but the long term effects of being on drugs like Medicam are often as damaging (or even worse) than the arthritis itself. We also watch his weight carefully, and made sure that he has a memory foam bed and ramps instead of stairs wherever possible.


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