# Suggestions on how to deal with biting 6 month old?



## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

I am keeping a 6 month old chocolate lab in my home while the owners are overseas. In general, she's a submissive puppy who is very sweet. I generally have to keep her confined to the livingroom with us because she overwhelms the other chocolate lab who lives with her (who is 11 years old) or is constantly climbing on Danny even when he doesn't want to play, or is jumping on one of the cats trying to get them to play. 

She doesn't care for being outside unless I am right there with her and as hot as it's been, there haven't been any walks this week, though I did get her out all three mornings over the weekend. That didn't change her behavior either way.

Anyhow, when she's out of the crate, she gets wide open and literally jumps up and bounces off from the couch (couch is off limits). As soon as I give her a verbal correction, she starts barking and snapping at me. I ignore her when she does this, but then she ends up biting me, and not gently. For my safety, I have to put her back in the crate, because she's bitten me several times, not breaking the skin, but bruising me. I feel badly because she's having to spend entirely too much time crated.

I have tried to verbally correct her and immediately praise her when she stops the unwanted behavior and that seems to help sometimes, but other times, she just goes nuts and starts barking and snapping at me.

The other worrisome issue is her resource guarding. If she gets something that she doesn't want to share, I get a treat and trade her. But she's fast and smart. She'll snatch the treat and grab the guarded item back up before I have time to reach it. If I get the leash out to loop over her, she'll avoid the leash and keep the guarded item in her mouth.

Yet when I walk her and she picks something up off from the sidewalk, I can reach right in and take whatever it is that she's picked up right out of her mouth.

Her owners were concerned about the snapping and barking at them, but I assumed that it was just bratty puppy behavior, but this is beyond that. I would like some advice for me on how to handle her and some information that I can pass on to her owners when they get back.

Thanks!

Edited to add that the owners have had her in two levels of training classes and she walks beautifully on the leash and knows sit and wait really well.


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

You do enough fostering, that the Mine Jean Donadlson book would be a good resource to have on hand...there is also an ebook version available from dogwise.com.

Keep her on leash in the house, rather than giving her the opportunity to be naught.

Find a raised surface outdoors (a set of 2-3 stairs to a porch, a low bench, a big rock, etc). Teach her to get up. Treat. Get off. Treat. Get up. Treat. Get off treat. Practice a lot. And then, when she gets on the couch, you can ask her to get off and reinforce heavily.

Consider a head halter on walks for n ow, until her resource guarding has been addressed. Or be very cautious to walk her only where you see big wide sidewalks.

Sit and do a few training sessions in the house... brand new tricks. Clicker training is great. A few sessions per day and she'll be more tired..... without having to go out in the horrible heat. 

Find somewhere to tether her...with a frozen stuffed kong. The tether limits the trouble. The kong teaches her apprprate interactions with objects.

Consider starting to work her on a go to mat/stay on bed behavior...so she can be in the couch room with a clear understanding of what to do.

It sounds like she doesn't know how to make good choices on her own yet, and that she's getting upset when she's given feedback that she's incorrect.... she needs more guidance on what to do and how to make good choices. If we set up her environment so it's very easy to make good choices and very hard to make poor choices, she will get more reinforcement and feedback on good choices, be making more good choices, and be happier and safer becuase she knows what to do.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I hate to say this, but it really sounds like this puppy rules the roost at her home. She sounds like a spoiled little brat. The barking/biting behavior is something I would expect from a 10 week old puppy, but it sounds like they've let her get away with it. 

I would keep a leash on her in the house. And... I know this isn't gentle pc, but I would give her a good leash correction + serious verbal correction (you need to sound low and angry) the next time she tries that barking/biting behavior. 

About the resource guarding. Teach her to spit the item and then toss a treat for her to chase down. Grab the item while she's running off after her reward. Give her another treat when she comes back.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Thank you for that advice. I do need to pick up Mine!, I normally foster younger puppies who don't seem to resource guard quite as much.

I agree that she gets upset when she's corrected and I hate to have to be correcting her all the time. I'll try having treats on hand so I can reinforce the good behavior as soon as it happens with treats rather than verbally. I'd keep the leash on her, but she chews on it when I do, so I've been keeping it handy and slipping it over her head as needed (not as often as I had to at first, she was trying to bite me when I would try to put her in the crate at the beginning, but she's stopped that one).

She does know the "off" command because she jumps off the couch as soon as I say off, but then starts barking and snapping at me. The treats might help with that one.

Thanks again! I'd like to have people stop looking at me like I am an abused woman because of all the bruises I have from her biting me. Little puppies might have sharp teeth, but a 6 month old has a lot more jaw strength!


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Megora said:


> I hate to say this, but it really sounds like this puppy rules the roost at her home. She sounds like a spoiled little brat. The barking/biting behavior is something I would expect from a 10 week old puppy, but it sounds like they've let her get away with it.
> 
> I would keep a leash on her in the house. And... I know this isn't gentle pc, but I would give her a good leash correction + serious verbal correction (you need to sound low and angry) the next time she tries that barking/biting behavior.
> 
> About the resource guarding. Teach her to spit the item and then toss a treat for her to chase down. Grab the item while she's running off after her reward. Give her another treat when she comes back.


I totally agree that the owners have been letting her get away with the behavior. They are an older couple and their 11 year old lab is a dream dog. Gentle, quiet and so well behaved. I think Sadie is a lot more than what they bargained for. She's a handful for us and we're experienced dog people.

Tossing the treat doesn't work for the resource guarding, I tried that one and she takes the item with her and only drops it long enough to snatch the treat. Like I said, she's a smart little cookie!

I'm going to try the positive method first and see if that helps. I don't want to do physical corrections unless there's no other choice. The owners have been working with a positive reinforcement trainer and they need to be the ones to decide if they want to address her behavior in another manner. It's not my place to do it.


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

The activities in "Mine" would be very helpful with young puppies as preventative activities... I think more rescues should get in a massive quantity of it at discount for foster homes and some adopters!

Practicing the structure of getting on things and off, on something separate than the couch, should reduce the conflict when she is up on the couch and you really need her off. Right now she's getting off...but conflicted and upset... we want her to get off, happy, knowing what to do, and being comfortable with that structure. We want to take away the conflict.

Maybe leave the leash on while she's doing busy/food toys? Or off leash in a very puppy proofed room? If that's the couch room, maybe large plastic containers up there so that she can't be making an error.

Food will be a more valuable reward than verbal praise.... For most dogs, and especially young conflicted dogs, verbal praise is not always that much of a reinforcer.... food more often will be.

Strict management and environmental set up will help greatly, if she can't make as many errors, you won't feel as distressed about changing her behavior, and you will be able to establish good habits.


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

*And another thought, due to the complexity, number of issues, etc.... are you able to get in contact with the owners? Can they do board and train with their trainer instead? The puppy and family would benefit from this jump start. It sounds like either the puppy is regressing under the stress of a different environment, or the family doesn't have the skills for training at the moment.... and the jumpstart of board and train would help them out greatly


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> I'm going to try the positive method first and see if that helps. I don't want to do physical corrections unless there's no other choice. The owners have been working with a positive reinforcement trainer and they need to be the ones to decide if they want to address her behavior in another manner. It's not my place to do it.


I understand. 

@the tossing treat - _train it_. It works. Our first golden was the one who would grab stuff (underwear...) and hide behind the couch with it. And you couldn't get him out because he would growl and snap at hands. Forget about taking the item from him. We started teaching "spit" when he had lesser value items in his mouth (paper wads). And the more we practiced, it started working with the higher value items (underwear...). 

He mellowed as he grew up, but with kids in the house there was definitely a need to teach the spit/toss routine and stick with it. 

FWIW... *coughs* in case there are any Cesar Milan/Alpha Pin people looking at this thread. Our Charmy starting that hiding/guarding behavior because our instructor back then recommended pinning dogs.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

RedDogs said:


> *And another thought, due to the complexity, number of issues, etc.... are you able to get in contact with the owners? Can they do board and train with their trainer instead? The puppy and family would benefit from this jump start. It sounds like either the puppy is regressing under the stress of a different environment, or the family doesn't have the skills for training at the moment.... and the jumpstart of board and train would help them out greatly


The folks are in Turkey and unreachable. The whole reason we're boarding her is because their trainer is also out of town. She's the one who recommended me to them to keep the dogs. She told the owners that she only saw the behavior one time and that was her last day staying with the trainer about 3 weeks prior to them staying with me, so I am assuming it's been escalating during that time. The owners told me about the behavior when we went to pick them up, but initially I thought it was just regular bratty puppy behavior. 

They're only here until next Wednesday and we can manage just fine until then, but I would love to be able to offer them some tips on how to keep this from escalating in their home.


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

Geez, what a tough scenario. Thank goodness it's only another week or so! AND that you obviously have the patience of a saint for putting up with her. No wonder people say smart dogs are like a double-edged sword. 

Sorry, no advice here - just support!


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Ranger said:


> Geez, what a tough scenario. Thank goodness it's only another week or so! AND that you obviously have the patience of a saint for putting up with her. No wonder people say smart dogs are like a double-edged sword.
> 
> Sorry, no advice here - just support!


Thanks! Yeah, she's going to grow up to be a great dog, she just needs direction on how to behave properly. I've been doing the same things with her that I have always done with my foster puppies and it just wasn't working. Plus she bites harder than any of my foster puppies did, so ignoring her just wasn't an option.


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## lyssa (Mar 1, 2011)

The well known clicker trainer Sue Ailsby, sometimes known as Sue Eh? has developed some guidelines called "Leading the Dance" for dogs similar to what this pup sounds like. It uses a combination of some clicker training (although not strictly necessary) and other changes in household dynamics and doggie privileges to create a dog who thinks about their choices and becomes more submissive to their owner. Clicker training in itself creates a dog who thinks creatively, and 6 months is a great age to train with a clicker, so I absolutely agree with RedDogs there. It'll also bring the owners and the dog closer and re-create some trust, as after the recent snapping, I imagine they are starting to feel a bit funny around her, and she isn't probably comfortable either.

Anyway, the information about Leading the Dance is here. The most important point from it is an 6ft umbilical leash around the house - ie the dog goes where YOU want and has to watch you. The dog also learns to be comfortable with eye contact, physical contact, enforced down stays where the dog relaxes near you (in a crate if necessary), regularly putting the dog in a brief but happy down throughout the day because you're the boss, obedience practice, exercise and deliberately controlling access to good things. This is a very basic description, so read the link for the details. Sue is a well known trainer in the clicker community and Leading the Dance is known to work for many 'problem' dogs, and just those being temporary brats.

Obviously as you only have her one more week you can only do so much from it, but if you think it sounds interesting, pass it onto the owners. Sue has occasionally used it when discipline has slipped a touch from her amazing dogs, just for a couple of weeks, and they start being much more respectful.

When you described the pup, LTD as it's known just came to mind. I think at least some of it would help.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

RedDogs, I used your method of giving her a treat when I needed to tell her "off", plus had the couch blocked by a small bench. She responded beautifully! Not one temper tantrum and instead kept coming over to see if she was going to get a goodie (she could smell them). But totally well behaved and sweet the whole time, like I knew she could be. I threw the treats rather than giving them to her because she'll take my fingers right off if I handed them to her. Thanks for the suggestions!


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

Horray! Throwing the treats is a better option for this behavior (More "away frm the couch" thoughts).

It'll be tempting to stop using the treats soon, but if she were a permanent resident, I would be using the food to reward for a few weeks before gradually decreasing the amount of reinforcement.... due to how easily she gets frustrated. Plus we want to counteract all her previous naughtyness and confusion...we want her happy to get off every time, without a grumble, before we go onto the next stage.

Management and a bit of training are a great thing! We really don't have to make life a fight with our dogs....they really do want to fit in!


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

RedDogs said:


> Horray! Throwing the treats is a better option for this behavior (More "away frm the couch" thoughts).
> 
> It'll be tempting to stop using the treats soon, but if she were a permanent resident, I would be using the food to reward for a few weeks before gradually decreasing the amount of reinforcement.... due to how easily she gets frustrated. Plus we want to counteract all her previous naughtyness and confusion...we want her happy to get off every time, without a grumble, before we go onto the next stage.
> 
> Management and a bit of training are a great thing! We really don't have to make life a fight with our dogs....they really do want to fit in!


Yes, this gives me some great advice to give to her owners. I am going to suggest using her kibble since she's going to need a lot of reinforcement. And she LOVES her kibble.


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