# Golden Retriever killed at dog park



## LadyLuck1022 (Nov 24, 2013)

this is so sad...and for the other owner to just walk away, that makes me so angry. my heart goes to Buddy and his owner.


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

Owner surrenders Great Dane involved in death of golden retriever at dog park near Wentzville : News


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## dogloverforlife (Feb 17, 2013)

This is so awful and really saddens me.

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## Rainheart (Nov 28, 2010)

I currently live about an hour from the dog park in question... just so sad. I talked about this a bit on facebook- but 75 dogs there!? Way way too many and that is just asking for trouble. I'm not a fan of dog parks... I don't like to go when there are lots of dogs. I don't take Beamer very often; when I do it is usually in the mornings with only a handful of people (if any at all) to swim in the lake. I'm glad the owner of the Dane has come forward...


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I've been pretty upset since Sunday over dog owners and the choices some make. In Houston they have a dog park, which includes to ponds, and then just a little farther down is an unfenced area with a pond that is labeled for off leash TRAINING use (for people doing hunting training).

So I'm throwing bumper for Flip into the pond, he's lining up for the next one, and all of a sudden there's a lab literally standing on Flip's head. The dog is obviously friendly, but we are there to work, not play, so I'm doing everything I can to keep this dog away from mine. The owner FINALLY comes to get his dog, and then 10 seconds after they walk off the dog is back on my dog again.

Later I switch out Flip for Phoenix, my 5 month old puppy, and an Akita comes running towards us. The owners are repeatedly calling for it, but the dog is ignoring them and continuing for us. I picked Phoenix up and carried him, because I'm not taking a chance on finding out what the dog's intentions were.

Why do people think they have the right to have their dog off leash if they don't have control over their dog? It really irritates me. If you want your dog to socialize, go a block down the road to the dog park. If you don't want your dog to socialize, then find a better way to have control of him. But don't just let your dog off leash in a training area if he isn't going to listen to you!

Sorry for not really being on topic, it I've been needing to rant


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I think my thing... stating the obvious....

1. Everyone knows that dog fights and scuffles happen at dog parks. 

2. Everyone knows that people in general take a "hands off" approach to misbehaving dogs. 

3. Everyone knows that dog parks are dangerous places in general... yes, people shouldn't be letting dangerous dogs loose in a park but keep in mind any large breed dog can be dangerous to a smaller dog. And some dogs flip out with the right amount of excitement hitting their wiring. 

So why did the owners of that golden retriever take him there? 

If I were them, I could not possibly get over the guilt of putting my dog in that danger in the first place.


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## FeatherRiverSam (Aug 7, 2009)

It really is a shame that there are so many irresponsible dog owners out there...I can't help but wonder if this is the first aggressive encounter this Great Dane has had and why in the world he was let loose in a dog park. My heart goes out to the golden owner...it can happen so fast. I crossed dog parks off my list many, many years ago.

Pete & Woody


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## Tayla's Mom (Apr 20, 2012)

I go to only one dog park and that is at our Disney resort, Fort Wilderness. We have never had a problem, but I'm also always vigilant. I check out all dogs before we ever open the gate and if others come in I check them out and my dogs' reactions to them. A wrong twitch or growl and we are out of there.


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## Jennifer1 (Mar 31, 2012)

Megora said:


> I think my thing... stating the obvious....
> 
> 1. Everyone knows that dog fights and scuffles happen at dog parks.
> 
> ...



I have to sort of disagree with you. We on this forum are clearly very active dog owners that spend a lot of time on all things dog. Not everyone does this. I don't believe that everyone inherently knows that dog parks are serious dangers to their dogs or they wouldn't go. For every story you hear about a bad experience at a dog park, there are more people with nothing but good experiences. I won't take my guys there, but I can certainly see why people are under the (false?) impression that dog parks are a good thing for their dogs. Most dogs have a blast at them.

The number of stories I've read on this forum recently about people's dogs getting attacked on walks would make me think that walking dogs is dangerous. But, more dogs have uneventful walks that eventful ones.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Jennifer - there are news stories. There are warnings posted outside of some dog parks. You have people with personal experiences... before becoming a member of this forum and even before really getting involved deeply with dog stuff, I still was and always have been very protective of my dogs and would never turn them loose with other dogs, especially since other people do not have zero tolerance policies when it comes to humping, growling, snapping, and so on.... 

Even people on this forum - you have people whose dogs attacked other dogs at dog parks, and you still have people using dog parks to turn their dogs loose with other dogs! It's crazy and reckless. And there is a lot of excuses and living with the heads poked in the ground. 

I can probably understand the problem with city dwellers who don't have any yard worth speaking of where their dogs can run and be dogs. But does that necessarily have to include turning your dogs loose with a bunch of strange dogs? 

My mom always had the opinion when it comes to dogs that dogs on their own and with their owners are generally trustworthy to a point. But you turn them loose with a bunch of other dogs, and you have a lot of instincts taking over or coming to the surface - especially if the owners are taking the stance of "letting the dogs work it out". That was my mom and huge reason why she never turned her Chicago born and raised shepherds loose in a dog park. And why her parents raised her that way, and so on.



> The number of stories I've read on this forum recently about people's dogs getting attacked on walks would make me think that walking dogs is dangerous. But, more dogs have uneventful walks that eventful ones.


 That unfortunately is a risk that the people take living where they do. If you live in an urban area with a lot of questionable people and dogs around - you have a lot more to be nervous about walking your dog around the block then most people do. It is not the same thing as turning your dog loose with a bunch of other dogs.


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## Lilliam (Apr 28, 2010)

Wow how tragic. 

I never take my boys to dog parks anymore. Cassie's attack was what sealed it for me. 

I like their doggy day care, where four staff members supervise play.


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## Roushbabe (Feb 20, 2011)

This story really saddens me, I can only imagine the pain the owners are feeling with losing their dog like this. I've always loved dog parks but I do my due diligence. I go either early in the morning or early afternoon before everyone gets there around 5pm. I also sit in the truck and watch how the dogs inside the park are already interacting. I have left several times with my dogs not even going in the park with all the dominant behavior I see nowadays. People think it's funny and it's not. The most success I've had are meeting people with great dogs that interact well with mine and meeting at a earlier time when nobody is at the park. Or friends of mine come over to my house for a play date. It's safer and more controlled. 

I just can't imagine taking my dog to a dog park and having it die there and having to carry him away that night. Gosh, how awful, and it really makes me upset that the owner of the Great Dane just left. What a low life..


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## Shellbug (Nov 14, 2013)

Megora- I had NEVER heard stories like this until I joined this forum. None. I don't watch the news, read the news or get on Facebook. So people like me wouldn't know dog parks are dangerous. You CANNOT blame the owner for this. It's like blaming a rape victim for walking in a questionable neighborhood. It's very much "sanctimommy" behavior and it's the very thing many women do to each other raising kids. It's not okay to place blame on the owner here. Like I said this forum is the only reason I learned dog parks are not good places. I do have friends who take their dogs and they have a blast. Great social events for their dogs and exercise. Stop blaming victims. It's sort of making me sick to think anybody would blame the owner. 


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

What a sad way for this golden to die.


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## Shellbug (Nov 14, 2013)

goldensrbest said:


> What a sad way for this golden to die.



It's sickening. I don't think I would be able to get over it 


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## KathyL (Jul 6, 2011)

My heart goes out to the owner of the golden that was attacked and died. I cannot imagine a worse way to lose your dog. I've never taken any of my dogs to a dog park. It only takes one incident and I rather be safe than sorry.


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## Ruby13 (Dec 28, 2013)

Megora said:


> So why did the owners of that golden retriever take him there?
> 
> If I were them, I could not possibly get over the guilt of putting my dog in that danger in the first place.


Really???

They must not have been as _knowledgeable _as you seem to be. And probably not as insensitive...

My heart goes out to the owner of the Golden.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Megora said:


> So why did the owners of that golden retriever take him there?
> 
> If I were them, I could not possibly get over the guilt of putting my dog in that danger in the first place.


Wow...harsh. :no:


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## dezymond (May 3, 2012)

I'm glad the owner of the Great Dane stepped forward, but I still personally don't think any better of him. Point is, he fled the scene after and most likely stepped forward because it's not easy to hide a dog that size, so it was only a matter of time before he was spotted again, especially with the story making its way throughout the internet and local news. 

Just to put it out there, I never once thought a dog park was a bad idea, ever since I took Maverick there since he was about 15wks. Just like any other public place, you're going to run into someone, in this case dog, you feel sketchy about, it's instinct. In those rare cases, I have left the dog park regardless of how many of mine and Maverick's friends are in there.

In an ideal world and probably what most of us imagined before hearing of these horrible stories, your dog running around with other happy dogs and playing. How can that be a recipe for disaster after all? Welp, just with anything else, it only takes one idiot to ruin things and I respect that people choose to avoid them or go to dog parks. Just as with anything, there's a certain amount of risk to going out in public. At least that's my .02 about it.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Horrible things can happen where ever you are, even in your back yard - I have y own experiences with that. 
However, people have this notion that you go to a dog park and all the dogs will just play and be happy. They are like that, even at the pet stores. There was this little chihuahua growling at passing people and dogs. I took both my girls and moved away. The guy yelled at me why I did not like little dogs. I ignored and walked away.

Fact is, the best trained dog will snap in certain circumstances. And even the best trainer in the world could probably not predict it. I feel bad for BOTH dogs involved in this incident. The Golden that passed away and the Great Dane that was put in this situation.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

I live about 45 mins from the dog park, the owner was on Tv tonight and said that he had never been to a dog park and never expected the outcome.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Shellbug said:


> Megora- I had NEVER heard stories like this until I joined this forum. None. I don't watch the news, read the news or get on Facebook. So people like me wouldn't know dog parks are dangerous. You CANNOT blame the owner for this. It's like blaming a rape victim for walking in a questionable neighborhood. It's very much "sanctimommy" behavior and it's the very thing many women do to each other raising kids. It's not okay to place blame on the owner here. Like I said this forum is the only reason I learned dog parks are not good places. I do have friends who take their dogs and they have a blast. Great social events for their dogs and exercise. Stop blaming victims. It's sort of making me sick to think anybody would blame the owner.
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I think you have people who forget their dogs are animals and have certain instincts. They are not cute little children. And the other dogs are not evil rapists or whatever correlation you are trying to make here. 

Dogs are dogs. Their brains work differently than human brains. A lot of that wiring determines fight or flight in these dogs. And situations where you have very large breeds being allowed into the same open area with smaller breeds - that's a scary as heck situation to my brain! 

Keep in mind I just came back from dog class where we had a young english mastiff and a young Tibetan mastiff whose owners were generally keeping a dog between them because these two powerful young dogs (both already well over the 110lb mark) couldn't stand the sight of each other. Can you imagine these dogs off leash? 

I was stating the obvious that the owners of the goldens put their dog in a dog park with 75 other dogs running around? Even 10-15 dogs is way too much.... I would not even be comfortable turning my dogs loose with a pack of goldens because I've personally seen goldens with temperament problems who can't handle dogs in their safety bubbles. And it just takes one attack to make a dog nervous about other dogs. 

And even if they scoped out the park before hand, if the owners of the dane came after they did and the dog was set loose and went directly after the golden.... 

It's unfortunately something that probably would have been a vicious dog fight if the breeds were more compatible in size (a lab mix going after the golden, for example)... and even there, you have a lot of people watching stuff in front of them in these dog parks which they do not understand or recognize as aggression and dominance and frustration and stress... with these dogs. 

Dogs are pack animals, yes, but they do not need to be thrown into a strange pack of dogs by their owners. 

I think on this forum that point especially is very important to focus on. And remember that hey - you guys choose to put your dogs out there in that danger. 

I'm upset about these dogs getting attacked, torn into by other dogs, made aggressive, and killed... especially goldens. There is a time for sensitivity and piling on the "bad guy", but your roles as dog owners is protecting your dogs from being put in these situations.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

I took my dog to the park TWICE. We have been looking everywhere for water to train and let Rose swim. Out of the last resort we went to the park where there is a tiny pond. Yup - I already made an excuse for going there. I had DH and DD with me both times and glad I did. 
First time it was OK, had her on a long leash, nothing happened. Second time it wasn't that pleasant. This lab swam the pond and after he got out charged towards us as we were leaving. As he approached, Rose got in protective mode. DH was holding her and I put myself in front of her starring down the lab who was growling and snapping. All the while the idiot owner was yelling how her dog is a friendly dog and running towards us trying to call him. 

If you would have asked me the day before if Rose would ever bark and try to pull to get to another dog I would have told you that you are confusing my dog with someone else's. 
If anything would have happened to Rose from that incident it would have been entirely my fault for putting her in that situation. 
No matter that this was not a dog park, that dogs were supposed to be leashed. Even though I did have a 50 ft leash for swimming and the regular 6 ft leash after swim. All these would be more excuses for myself but ultimately I was the one to put her in that situation. 
That Great Dane could have been the sweetest dog before the encounter with the GR. He was also put in that situation by his owners. Who knows what will happen to him now!


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## Shellbug (Nov 14, 2013)

Claudia I really do understand what you are saying. My point of view is that we all put others (animals, kids, or ourselves) in any and all situations. If my dog died in the car from a wreck as I was taking him to the store for some social time, it would be my fault. If my child was hurt on a ride at the carnival it would be my fault for trying to take them to have fun. At the end of the day there is ALWAYS a finger to point. Somebody did something to get the ball rolling. I just don't play the blame game. It does no good. Instead I like to educate people. 
I had zero idea dog parks were bad. I heard some stories but I also heard some good ones. I took Thor. Oh man it was not a good idea. Thankfully he was okay and nothing bad happened beyond repair. I can tell you I will never go back. I even talked to a friend who takes her dogs often about it. Hoping she would maybe change her mind. At this stage in the game I think education is the key. I can't imagine Rosie growling. She seems so sweet 


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## Shellbug (Nov 14, 2013)

I can't imagine anybody forgetting dogs are dogs and not children. Children are even more complex, if you can imagine. My correlation with the rapist is because you did just that. Many people blame a woman for how she dressed or where she was when it happened. Blaming the victim. That's exactly what you did. Harsh correlation? Yes but just as offensive. 

Many many people use dog parks, dog stores and other various places to take their dogs. Are we all to stay home with our dogs? So many people have no idea dog parks can be dangerous. As I stated, I was one of them until I read this forum. Dogs have been killed in their own back yards by other dogs. It happens. And like others have stated, there are just as many good stories as bad. 

My issue is your blame. Not all dog owners are as schooled as you obviously are. They don't compete and their lives aren't all dog. They have wonderful pets they like to take out for fun and social time and have no idea dog parks are dangerous. Meanwhile your first instinct is to point a finger. 

I guess at the end of the day every single accident or death can have a finger pointed at it in some form or fashion because there would always have been a reason NOT to have done what was done in the first place. 

Something like this, "This poor family and dog. I can't stand dog parks because they are so dangerous. I would love to put more effort into teaching people how dangerous they can be and hopefully the life of this dog won't be in vain but it will further educate people on just how serious this issue actually is" 
Instead of 
"So why did the owners of that golden retriever take him there? 

If I were them, I could not possibly get over the guilt of putting my dog in that danger in the first place".

I can't stand sanctimommy attitudes and that is exactly what is going on here. I would rather further educate people on this matter then point a finger at a family who just lost the love of their lives. I happen to be a very compassionate person though. I am just wired differently. 


QUOTE=Megora;4368265]I think you have people who forget their dogs are animals and have certain instincts. They are not cute little children. And the other dogs are not evil rapists or whatever correlation you are trying to make here. 

Dogs are dogs. Their brains work differently than human brains. A lot of that wiring determines fight or flight in these dogs. And situations where you have very large breeds being allowed into the same open area with smaller breeds - that's a scary as heck situation to my brain! 

Keep in mind I just came back from dog class where we had a young english mastiff and a young Tibetan mastiff whose owners were generally keeping a dog between them because these two powerful young dogs (both already well over the 110lb mark) couldn't stand the sight of each other. Can you imagine these dogs off leash? 

I was stating the obvious that the owners of the goldens put their dog in a dog park with 75 other dogs running around? Even 10-15 dogs is way too much.... I would not even be comfortable turning my dogs loose with a pack of goldens because I've personally seen goldens with temperament problems who can't handle dogs in their safety bubbles. And it just takes one attack to make a dog nervous about other dogs. 

And even if they scoped out the park before hand, if the owners of the dane came after they did and the dog was set loose and went directly after the golden.... 

It's unfortunately something that probably would have been a vicious dog fight if the breeds were more compatible in size (a lab mix going after the golden, for example)... and even there, you have a lot of people watching stuff in front of them in these dog parks which they do not understand or recognize as aggression and dominance and frustration and stress... with these dogs. 

Dogs are pack animals, yes, but they do not need to be thrown into a strange pack of dogs by their owners. 

I think on this forum that point especially is very important to focus on. And remember that hey - you guys choose to put your dogs out there in that danger. 

I'm upset about these dogs getting attacked, torn into by other dogs, made aggressive, and killed... especially goldens. There is a time for sensitivity and piling on the "bad guy", but your roles as dog owners is protecting your dogs from being put in these situations.[/QUOTE]





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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Michelle (I'm guessing that is your name...?) 

I meant what I said earlier - and I did not mean it as unkindly as you are assuming. I can only imagine based on what you let slip, that Thor had something bad happen to him when you took him (a puppy) to a dog park. And it was bad enough that you decided not to do that ever again. And your reactions here and line of thinking - it sounds like you feel that everything I said is my telling you that whatever happened to Thor, was your fault. 

I can't help that. And I was not directly pointing fingers at people by name and by case. 

W/regards to the incident that ended with a large breed dog killing a medium size breed dog after they were turned loose together... I meant what I said with the strongest sad and disgusted emotions that I feel when I read this story on facebook and the news. These things keep happening because people don't learn from them. Even on facebook you have vets and trainers talking about dogs getting ears ripped off or otherwise mauled in dog parks... a lot stronger reactions there than my own here.


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## Shellbug (Nov 14, 2013)

Megora said:


> Michelle (I'm guessing that is your name...?)
> 
> I meant what I said earlier - and I did not mean it as unkindly as you are assuming. I can only imagine based on what you let slip, that Thor had something bad happen to him when you took him (a puppy) to a dog park. And it was bad enough that you decided not to do that ever again. And your reactions here and line of thinking - it sounds like you feel that everything I said is my telling you that whatever happened to Thor, was your fault.
> 
> ...



My name is Jana. No I don't feel you are pointing a finger at me by saying it was a bad call taking Thor to the dog park. I own that. He wasn't hurt just bullied for a couple minutes. I don't put that blame on anybody but myself and I am human enough to Know this won't be my last mistake in raising dogs or dealing with people. There is no offense taken by me. This isn't about me. I used myself as an example to try and explain my pov. The offense is taken by your harsh words towards the dog owner who's dog died. I explained earlier some of us don't read FB or the news. Dog attacks at dog parks really ARE unknown to some people and had I not been on this forum I would have never known. My point is yes the owner is responsible. As we are ALL responsible for anything that happens to any living being under our watch. But there is a time and place for harsh blame and this IMO is not the time for it. Rather it's a time to HELP educate the population on why these places are dangerous. 
I am actually agreeing with your stance but I don't agree with your approach. 


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

This is what I said.... as opposed to the 2 lines that have been quoted repeatedly:



Megora said:


> I think my thing... stating the obvious....
> 
> 1. Everyone knows that dog fights and scuffles happen at dog parks.
> 
> ...


And I repeat them wholeheartedly. 

Those poor people are going to live the rest of their lives thinking about if they did not take that golden to that park to begin with, they would still have that dog in their lives. <- To me that is a horrific thing and I myself couldn't live with that sickening guilt that I imagine myself feeling in their shoes.

And the owners of that great dane will live with the same guilt. I imagine that is part of the reason why they took their dog and left - I can only imagine they were in a state of shock over what happened.

It was all needless and stupid for them to have their dogs there in that situation. 

I've got to think that both parties will likely go on to own dogs again, and they will never EVER to infinity go near a dog park.

My anger and frustration is over people having to learn this lesson in such a way that violently ended the life of one of the dogs and the other one will likely be put down if he hasn't already. 

People don't need to be taught. They need to have their heads yanked out the sand.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Thank you for this post Kate. I think it beautifully states the inherent danger of dog parks.

Social animals? Yes, but above all pack animals!! Pack animals chase and/or destroy intruders who might place their pack in danger. 

Dog parks are a very bad idea. Talk to vets, animal behaviorists and just read the postings on this forum - people who have seen the dangers first hand and have had to attempt to repair the damages.

Socialization - what does it mean? It means exposing your dogs to a wide variety of situations that will become part of their lives in a _*safe*_ fashion. 

Dog parks are not socialization. Dog Parks are an opportunity for dogs to display the pack side of their nature; and that is often not pretty. It might be aggression that killed Buddy, but it was more likely pack behavior - a primal event that should never have happened - yes, the owners are at fault for placing their dogs in this situation - dogs are pack animals first! 

I feel so horribly that this beautiful golden lost his life, but hope his horrible, horrible death will perhaps serve as a wake up call that dog parks are dangerous places. At least that way his death will not be in vain.




Megora said:


> I think you have people who forget their dogs are animals and have certain instincts. They are not cute little children. And the other dogs are not evil rapists or whatever correlation you are trying to make here.
> 
> Dogs are dogs. Their brains work differently than human brains. A lot of that wiring determines fight or flight in these dogs. And situations where you have very large breeds being allowed into the same open area with smaller breeds - that's a scary as heck situation to my brain!
> 
> ...


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## Jennifer1 (Mar 31, 2012)

I think some of us take our knowledge about dog related things for granted and forget that the general populace doesn't necessarily know these things. I can honestly say this is the first actual news story about a dog fight at a dog park that I have ever read. I took my last golden to a dog park once as a puppy to meet up with some friends. We didn't have a bad experience. I've never been a dog park person because they weren't convenient. I have plenty of friends with dogs my guys can play with to get their socialization an just for fun. I never had to worry about that and a dog park was always a 30 min drive until recently so I just never went. I now know (because of this forum) about the dark side of dog parks but would never fault someone else for thinking it is a good idea. I honestly think many people on this forum have a "professional" level of knowledge about dog stuff and are forgetting that the general populace actually doesn't spend a lot of time researching this type of thing.

The first time in my life that I had more than a once a year contact with a vet was when Bear got sick. So I've never had a conversation with a vet to know their feelings about dog parks. I still don't believe I've ever heard of any interactions at our dog park-probably because I don't seek out that info. I don't feel my dogs need the possible benefits of the dog park and feel that in my case the risks outweigh the benefits.

Everything we do with our dogs is a weighing of risk vs benefit. I live in a town similar to Mayberry in its crime and it is easily one of the most educated towns in the country. We don't have malicious things happen here, but mistakes still happen. Just last week Kenzie was attacked (she's fine) by a heeler mix that was let out of its gated yard by its kids leaving a fence open. Everytime I take my dogs for a walk, there is the possibility of an escaped dog. I feel the risk of a bad dog encounter is outweighed by the benefits of a walk. But if the wrong dog is out, a walk could still be fatal. In albuquerque 2-3 times a year there was a new story about someone walking their dog and it gets mauled by a loose dog.

We have open space where dogs are allowed to be off leash for hiking. There are cliffs along the edge of those areas with about 300ft drops. I don't feel the benefit of running loose outweighs the risk of the cliffs. I would say I am in the minority in my community here that feel that way. It doesn't happen often but every few years a dog goes over the cliff chasing a lizzard or rabbit. So far the ones I'm aware of were lucky and fell onto a shelf or went off at a less lethal height and did survive. But they have had to be rescued by our local FD.

We also have rattlesnakes here on the trails as well as in the middle of the main sidewalks. Again the benefits the benefits of a walk outweigh the very real risks.

I wouldn't choose a dog park because for me the risks outweigh any benefit from them.

I think other people do have benefits from a dog park and I still think that many if not most of the general dog owning population doesn't take time to research the risks of a dog park and don't have the same friends or go to the same websites that we go to to gain our knowledge. Like I said, this is the only news story I have read and wouldn't have seen it if not for this forum! I've never known anyone in real life to have a bad experience at a dog park.

I am not a fan of dog parks but wouldn't blame this owner for the death of their dog anymore than the owners whose dogs are mauled on a walk.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

I do not think knowledge is taken for granted. I think it becomes frustrating. Like Jane said, she tried to explain to her friends what happened to Thor (my guess from her post is that they did not). 
A dog park is being built where I live. I had people at Petco come and ask me if I will meet them there so the dogs can play. After I explained why I will not go there and how dangerous those places are they scoffed and moved away. And they were told.
I see people taking little puppies before shots to the pet store, I tell them why it would be in the dog's best interest to be picked up and not let to sniff every dog pee in the store. They still do it. 
There is this mini schnauzer that comes at Petco and Rose has never liked him. He is obnoxious and barks a lot but a friendly guy. Rose never growled at him but always kept a distance, played with the dog next to him but not with him. And she has known Doc ever since she was 16 weeks. Probably he is the reason she does not like "yappy" dogs.

I do not want to think or even imagine what would have happened if Rose and Doc met at the dog park for the first time in frankly an uncontrolled situation. Just like I do not want to imagine what would have happened if we did not have Rose leashed in the encounter with the lab at the park. 
I have a neighbor who ALWAYS lets his two dogs play outside unsupervised. They have an invisible fence. It is so "invisible" the dogs found the spots where they can cross it safely. I told them nicely while taking their dogs back inside why they should not trust the invisible fence. I told them also not so nicely that they are putting the dog's life in danger when I took the dogs back inside once again. No dice. And they live at a three way intersection. 
Stories like these should be shared on forums, FB and other social media, just like the OP did to bring awareness that not all dogs will just go and play with other dogs because we want them to.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

I won't even take my dogs to golden rescue picnics or off leash activities any more. One year a Golden viciously attacked a person who attempted to take a ball out of his mouth (not a good idea for anyone to try with an unfamiliar dog). I saw several dog altercations the last year we attended. There is no way to predict dog group behavior, especially when 200+ dogs are off leash.

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## Jennifer1 (Mar 31, 2012)

Claudia M said:


> Stories like these should be shared on forums, FB and other social media, just like the OP did to bring awareness that not all dogs will just go and play with other dogs because we want them to.


I agree with this. But, only ~73% of adults have social media accounts and that doesn't even bring into account how many actively use them (my mom has an account but never goes on.) And that number drops to ~45% when you reach the 65+ group. Social Networking Fact Sheet | Pew Research Center's Internet & American Life Project

Yes, I think more education is always a good thing but I also don't think some stranger in a store making an unsolicited piece of advice (even if 100% accurate) is the kind of education most people take kindly to. Or, maybe they even believe you, but feel the benefits of letting the dog go to the park is better.

I still say that a dogpark is just one of many choices that we make for our pets. Some people simply don't care enough while others genuinely don't know any better and yet others feel the benefits outweigh the risks.

I would be curious to see any statistics to see if more dogs are injured at dog parks than on normal daily walks. Again, it's a choice everyone needs to make to weigh the risks/benefits.

The only place I can even come close to guaranteeing my dogs safety is in the house with me present. And even then a freak accident could occur. Every time I stop outside of my house with the dogs I do so with the knowledge that something bad could happen.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Dallas Gold said:


> I won't even take my dogs to golden rescue picnics or off leash activities any more. One year a Golden viciously attacked a person who attempted to take a ball out of his mouth (not a good idea for anyone to try with an unfamiliar dog). I saw several dog altercations the last year we attended. There is no way to predict dog group behavior, especially when 200+ dogs are off leash.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I stopped going to our picnics/fundraisers for this exact reason. Too many dogs off leash and too many people who couldn't read their dog's body language. Too many spats breaking out. Just not worth it to me.

How absolutely heartbreaking for the owner of the golden. I can't imagine how horrible he felt!


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## Jennifer1 (Mar 31, 2012)

Maggies mom said:


> I live about 45 mins from the dog park, the owner was on Tv tonight and said that he had never been to a dog park and never expected the outcome.


This to me says that the guy didn't know the dangers. Whether he should have or not is debatable, but he didn't. 

If nothing else, this story solidifies that my guys will never go. In my situation, it's not necessary.


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## Tayla's Mom (Apr 20, 2012)

You also have dog beaches. I won't go to any off leash dog beaches, but I have taken Tayla to an on leash beach. She loves to swim and it's good for her hips. Same thing can happen. I take them camping and there are a lot of dog people that camp and RV. If something happens I'm going to feel terrible, but is it my fault for taking them with me - no. Something can happen to them if I leave them someplace. There are no certainties in life. You do the best you can and gain knowledge along the way. We just hoped that gained knowledge is not paid for in a high price.


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

My take on it - for what it's worth - is this. If you drove to the dog park, and saw that there were a lot of dogs there, and that the owners weren't paying a lot of attention, and that there was stuff going on you just didn't like - would you need a news story to tell you that you probably don't want to go in there?

Common sense tells me that when you get a bunch of dogs together, there's going to be a possibility of something happening, so why willingly put your dog in that situation? My best friend's lab plays happily with the dog across the street from her - a boxer I call Lily-bad-dog. Lily hates Max. I wouldn't consider putting them in the same fenced in area - she would surely attack him. And that's the danger - expecting that all dogs are going to like each other.


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## Golden999 (Jun 29, 2010)

I don't take my dog to dog parks. I've taken him to some general people parks and walked him down some trails on a leash and stuff like that, and he rides around in the car with me and visits relatives and stuff a lot, but I've never thought a dog park would be a great idea for him.

However, I do have a very small fenced in backyard that he can move around in off-leash. I also have relatives where he has a couple of dog friends who he can go visit, and their property is large enough that they can go outside and run around and do dog things together with me supervising and prepared to call them inside if people walk by.

I can see where if folks, say, have no yard or space where the dog can move around off-leash, and don't know anyone with dogs they can visit with their dog, a dog park would be appealing, though. I tend to think that most dogs do better when they can visit with dogs and do dog stuff occasionally. My closest relatives had one dog when I first got my dog, and their dog acted strange and anxious and miserable prior to that. After my dog had been visiting for a while, I started to see their dog act happy for the first time, his face would just light up bounding across the lawn and wrestling and carrying on. Sometimes he gets fed up with how "into him" my dog is and wants some space, but over all I think that friendship has been very positive for both dogs- especially their dog.

I mean, the ideal would be if everyone had large rural properties and knew friendly dogs their dogs could socialize with, but sometimes people live in apartments and don't have any friends with suitable dogs for their dog to play with. I mean, I live in an apartment, and am lucky to have a small yard, and if not for that and knowing some relatives with dogs, I'd be in that situation. A lot of us get dogs in part because we're not good with people, don't have an easy time maintaining a lot of friendships, and a dog is someone we can relate to more easily on an every day basis. Of course, that means dog parks are going to something that is going to be, if not a necessary evil, at least something with a lot of pros as well as cons, that are going to be worth considering for some owners.

Tragic events that happen at dog parks are unfortunate, but I don't know that a blanket ban on them is the answer. Sometimes there are risks associated with certain activities, like driving, that we assume because of the over all benefits. And for a dog with no dog friends and no yard, who is good with other dogs and wants to make friends, a dog park might make sense under certain circumstances. I think there's a cost to benefit ratio to be considered and of course an individual dog's situation. Also an individual dog's personality has to be considered- you wouldn't want to toss an aggressive dog, or a dog who scares easily, into a dog park with a bunch of dogs it doesn't know, that's a recipe for disaster.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I think people need to get over the mentality that their dog needs to be able to constantly interact with other dogs be a confident, healthy dog. People are constantly asking me if their dogs can come meet mine. At least those people are asking, but then they sometimes get upset when I say no. 

Just this past weekend there was an 8 month old dog pulling on his leash and growling because he wanted to come see my puppy. The owner said he was carrying on because he wanted to play and the owner was apparently waiting for an invitation to bring her dog over. I didn't reply, just smiled and continued the conversation I was having with someone else. So she interrupted me to ask if she could bring her dog over for them to meet. I told her no, I don't want my puppy thinking everywhere he goes is playtime, I want him focused on me and the class we were there for. I cannot wrap my head around the idea that because a dog is carrying on, pulling on leash, making noises, being near uncontrollable, that the owner should encourage that behavior by letting the dog get exactly what it was acting up for.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

I feel badly for the golden that was killed and his family. I have only gone to dog parks 2 times and didn't feel comfortable that other people were watching their dogs. That doesn't mean I'm anti-dog park, but I'm careful in what situations I'll allow my guys to be. That being said, when Duke was almost a year old, I was just doing my regular walk with him around the neighborhood. I didn't see the pitbull until he was on Duke. He started by sniffing Duke, but became aggressive in a split second; probably because he felt we had invaded his turf. He was off-leash unsupervised in his front lawn early morning. Before I knew it, he had Duke down and was going for his neck. Duke was whimpering and crying. I did everything you're not supposed to do (but didn't know at the time). I attempted to pull the dog off Duke, screamed at the top of my lungs and kicked at the pitbull. The owner came running out of the house and pulled him off Duke. Duke was unharmed for the most part. When I talked to Duke's trainer about it afterwards, he said that if the pitpull had been serious we would have never gotten him off Duke and that Duke would have been seriously hurt. I now avoid that house and pay special attention to my surroundings. But it does go to show that anything can happen at any time to even the most cautious.


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## Tayla's Mom (Apr 20, 2012)

I agree. We had a very similar incident happen to us with some new people moving in a couple houses down the street. We were coming back from a walk with me holding Tayla's leash and my husband had Lily's leash. We had only had Lily about a month (she was adopted so she was about 4.5 years old) at that point. They had their front door open and the back gate and we had just pasted their driveway when their pit came charging out barking and did a quick circle around that past Lily. Thank God he kept going and back into their yard. The lady was very apologetic and said she was sorry. I said that's OK, but don't let that be a habit because it's one I won't hesitate to report. No harm, but it scared me to death because I'm always so loose dog aware. Had he meant harm he would have had Lily in a split second. Would it have been my fault for walking her in my neighborhood - no. It would have been their fault, but what difference does it make if my dog is hurt?


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

I always tell my husband that if we ever win the lottery, I want to fence in one of the fields and make it a private dog park. 
I think dogs do need interaction with other dogs. How would you feel if you were never allowed to communicate with someone who speaks your language? It's the lack of controls at most dog parks that bothers me. Anyone can come in with any dog. No one checks to see if the dog is aggressive, or even if the dog is healthy! I remember one day when there was a family with a dog they had just rescued, she was just coming off heat so hadn't been spayed yet and they were at dog park! Every male dog in the place was trying to make her his girlfriend! 

Dog parks don't need to be banned, they need to be regulated.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Tayla's Mom - I did report the owner of the pitbull. I didn't want the pitbull to be harmed because of a bad owner, but at the same time what if he had seriously hurt Duke, or me, or someone else. When I talked to the police, they said they would send him a warning. Apparently I wasn't the first person to turn him in though. I noticed the other day when I drove by that house that the owner had a new dog - pitbull. He had the new dog on a leash out in the front yard. I really hope nothing bad happened to the other pitbull, it wasn't his fault for what happened.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

I think it oversimplifies the situation to say that people should know better than to take their dogs to the dog park. Not all dog parks are the same, and they can be very different at different times of day. There's a park in our town with no fences that's a common spot for friendly dogs to meet up in very small groups. If your dog isn't under at least moderate control, there's no fence, and there's a road. That seems to weed out the worst of the worst when it comes to inattentive owners and untrained dogs.

It can be a really fun place to take the dogs for an off-leash romp or some ball, and the other dogs tend to be small in number and relatively well trained. I will still quietly gather up my dogs and leave if I get a bad vibe off any of the other dogs there.

I say this as somebody who will _never_ bring a dog to a fenced, crowded dog park, andI don't generally advise them for clients, with the exception that a fenced dog park can be an acceptable place to work on some skills or get some off-leash exercise if you go early or late when you can have it to yourself. 

It's a catch-22 for dog owners that it's very hard to satisfy a smart, athletic dog's needs without ever letting him off leash, but it's also dangerous to bring him to dog parks where lots of untrained, unsocialized dogs are allowed to run wild by lazy owners who want to get some steam let off their dogs without having to supervise them. I think we all try to strike a balance between safety and between getting our dogs good exercise and experiences. The fact is, though, that unless you keep your dog in a bubble, he can get hurt or even killed.

I wouldn't have brought my dog, in a million years, to a fenced area with that many off leash dogs in it. But I can't fault the owner for trying to take his dog someplace and to do something with him. And I certainly don't care to assign blame to a family who's going through one of my worst nightmares. I can't imagine what it's like to bring your dog someplace that's supposed to be fun for him and having him die in front of you like that.


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

My vet told me horror stories that resulted from dog parks. That was enough to keep me away.


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## boomers_dawn (Sep 20, 2009)

Education is key for people to recognize bad situations and warning signs, and use good judgement


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## Shellbug (Nov 14, 2013)

laprincessa said:


> I always tell my husband that if we ever win the lottery, I want to fence in one of the fields and make it a private dog park.
> I think dogs do need interaction with other dogs. How would you feel if you were never allowed to communicate with someone who speaks your language? It's the lack of controls at most dog parks that bothers me. Anyone can come in with any dog. No one checks to see if the dog is aggressive, or even if the dog is healthy! I remember one day when there was a family with a dog they had just rescued, she was just coming off heat so hadn't been spayed yet and they were at dog park! Every male dog in the place was trying to make her his girlfriend!
> 
> Dog parks don't need to be banned, they need to be regulated.



I agree with all that you said. ?


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## Shellbug (Nov 14, 2013)

tippykayak said:


> I think it oversimplifies the situation to say that people should know better than to take their dogs to the dog park. Not all dog parks are the same, and they can be very different at different times of day. There's a park in our town with no fences that's a common spot for friendly dogs to meet up in very small groups. If your dog isn't under at least moderate control, there's no fence, and there's a road. That seems to weed out the worst of the worst when it comes to inattentive owners and untrained dogs.
> 
> It can be a really fun place to take the dogs for an off-leash romp or some ball, and the other dogs tend to be small in number and relatively well trained. I will still quietly gather up my dogs and leave if I get a bad vibe off any of the other dogs there.
> 
> ...



This was all exactly what I was trying to say earlier. Maybe I am just not as good with my words lol. Not surprising ?


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

Shellbug said:


> This was all exactly what I was trying to say earlier. Maybe I am just not as good with my words lol. Not surprising ?
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Some are better than others, but you do just fine.


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## Ruby13 (Dec 28, 2013)

I just realized I have my own private dog park.


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## thorbreafortuna (Jun 9, 2013)

I am one of those people who had never heard horror stories about dog parks, and in fact I have several friends who have had nothing but good experiences. Since I read many opinions here that discouraged the use of dog parks I didn't jump right into it, but even here I read many posts from people who with precautions had good experiences with dog parks, and I decided to try it when Thor was 9 months old. I did not think of this so much as a socialization opportunity (He gets plenty of socialization in my neighborhood, albeit on a leash, on the occasional daycare visit and playgroups ran by trainers I sought in his earlier puppyhood) but as a chance for my young dog to be off leash without fear of him ending up in the way of traffic or lost; I live in a condo with common green areas where dogs need to be leashed outdoors. We visited two different parks, once each, strategically choosing daytime hours when people are at work during my February vacation. The first time was ok: small park in a small town with only 4 dogs. It wasn't wonderful though, one of the 4 dogs clearly did not like Thor, even though there was no issue since both her owner and myself made sure that the dogs stayed away from each other, plus she was little and not really a threat to my dog, and Thor was never anything other than politely playful and really trying to charm her. It still gave me pause. The second time is when I witnessed a clear attempt on the part of some dogs there who were older and clearly "in charge" to bully him. Even after I put many feet of distance between him and the area those dogs seemed to claim, and he started to have fun with other friendlier dogs I just felt so uncomfortable that I took him away. This was a total of no more than 12 dogs in a fairly large park. I can't imagine daring to go into such a crowded park as the news story describes, but I can't bring myself to have any feeling other than sadness and empathy for the owners of those dogs. Now dog parks are out for me, at least for now, but I still feel that the need for my dog to run unleashed at least sometimes in his life outweighs some level of risk, so I have opted for off leash hiking. We do run into other dogs in these hikes, but the dynamics are very different and we have never had an unpleasant encounter with another dog on the trails. I'll say this: I don't think that in my area people who take their dogs to dog parks are "lazy owners" as someone characterized before. You kind of have to go out of your way to find one around here. They are people who are trying to find solutions.


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## alphadude (Jan 15, 2010)

As stated many times, I avoid dog parks like bubonic plague. That being said, on the rare occasions I have had either of my guys there in the past, I have watched them and the other dogs like a hawk. 

I can personally guarantee, that I would not have ALLOWED a Great Dane or ANY dog regardless of breed or size, to "simply walk away with" and subsequently kill my dog. I would have intervened IMMEDIATELY (as I have on several occasions), with whatever amount force was necessary to convince the attacking dog to break off the attack Sorry if that sounds brutish, but in my opinion, it is preferable to having my dog die in my arms because of an ignorant, irresponsible, negligent owner of another dog.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Jennifer1 said:


> I agree with this. But, only ~73% of adults have social media accounts and that doesn't even bring into account how many actively use them (my mom has an account but never goes on.) And that number drops to ~45% when you reach the 65+ group. Social Networking Fact Sheet | Pew Research Center's Internet & American Life Project
> 
> Yes, I think more education is always a good thing but I also don't think some stranger in a store making an unsolicited piece of advice (even if 100% accurate) is the kind of education most people take kindly to. Or, maybe they even believe you, but feel the benefits of letting the dog go to the park is better.
> 
> ...


While your mom may not have internet access, social media account etc. you certainly do. And so do many of the 65+ year old people who do have someone in the family/household on social media. Unless they live in the boonies, but then they would not have to worry about a dog park. 
On a side note, I do not go to people to offer advise in the store, they happen to come to me while I am training my dogs in the store. Believe me I know what unsolicited advise is like to the point that I had to tell a woman what a complete moron she is to finally leave me alone with my dog. On the same vein, is advise over the internet from an anonymous person hiding behind a screen name more "kindly taken"? 
Yeah, things can happen during a dog walk, but while I am not much of a gambler I would bet that things happen where one or more than one dogs are off leash and the owners are convinced until the fight erupts that their dogs are super "friendly". 
In my book, taking a dog to a dog park because you have never been there before it is like taking a 5 year old to watch a horror movie because you have never been to the cinema before. 
A dog park would be a "viable" option until you actually see a dog fight. Dog play can be scary enough, multiply that by a couple thousand and you got yourself a dog fight. 
Couple months ago in obedience training class we were all working on down stays from a distance with less than a foot between the dogs. This little pooch was working on something else for a test coming up and was running past this mastiff. By the time the owner could tell that the mastiff was more uncomfortable with the little pooch running around and than the down stay, the mastiff attacked the pooch. Mind you, this was at least a half an hour into the class. And that was in a controlled environment with people who have been thru numerous training classes with their dogs (more than myself).


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## Dancer (Apr 5, 2010)

I knew a guy who had a 120 lbs mastiff cross he'd rescued as an adult from a shelter. The guy insisted on taking 'Winston' to dog parks where he consistently caused trouble, until Winston finally pick up a small dog in his mouth and ran off with it causing major bruising. Once the guy had to pay the furious owner's vet bill he stopped taking Winston to dog parks. No, instead he started taking him to an off-leash heavily used hiking and mountain biking park in town. Winston attack a few dogs there, and then chased a man in a bike down. When he caught him he grabbed the man's leg and pulled him off his bike. Between the crash and having his leg in the huge dog's mouth, the victim was obviously angry. When Winston's owner told us all the story, he was actually mad about how the victim had talked to him. The guys dog had just caused this poor man to crash off his bike and then bitten his leg to the point where his clothing was torn- Winston's owner was angry at how the victim talked to him?? And refused to so much as apologize???? And KEPT bringing Winston into places where he could hurt ppl and dogs!!!!??? These are the kind of people we're dealing with out there, and unfortunately they flock to dog parks. (Btw- we cut off contact with this guy right after- but not before we heard that Winston bit the guy's mom, mother in law, and a mutual friend of ours). 


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

Jennifer1 said:


> I would be curious to see any statistics to see if more dogs are injured at dog parks than on normal daily walks. Again, it's a choice everyone needs to make to weigh the risks/benefits.
> 
> .


Just ask any local vet in an area where dog parks are located.


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

Wyatt's mommy said:


> Just ask any local vet in an area where dog parks are located.


Our vet said that he was seeing not only more injuries, but more illness - people don't pick up poop, and people bring sick dogs to the park as well.


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## DukeGordon (Apr 2, 2014)

That is very sad. The only dog parks I have been to are typically empty or close to, so this seems very odd to me!


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## alphadude (Jan 15, 2010)

Dancer said:


> I knew a guy who had a 120 lbs mastiff cross he'd rescued as an adult from a shelter. The guy insisted on taking 'Winston' to dog parks where he consistently caused trouble, until Winston finally pick up a small dog in his mouth and ran off with it causing major bruising. Once the guy had to pay the furious owner's vet bill he stopped taking Winston to dog parks. No, instead he started taking him to an off-leash heavily used hiking and mountain biking park in town. Winston attack a few dogs there, and then chased a man in a bike down. When he caught him he grabbed the man's leg and pulled him off his bike. Between the crash and having his leg in the huge dog's mouth, the victim was obviously angry. When Winston's owner told us all the story, he was actually mad about how the victim had talked to him. The guys dog had just caused this poor man to crash off his bike and then bitten his leg to the point where his clothing was torn- Winston's owner was angry at how the victim talked to him?? And refused to so much as apologize???? And KEPT bringing Winston into places where he could hurt ppl and dogs!!!!??? These are the kind of people we're dealing with out there, and unfortunately they flock to dog parks. (Btw- we cut off contact with this guy right after- but not before we heard that Winston bit the guy's mom, mother in law, and a mutual friend of ours).
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


If I were the guy on the bike, Winston would have needed a trip to the vet and his owner one to the dentist.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

The owner of the Dane, has told his side of the story on Fb:

https://www.facebook.com/freezeus


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

glad to see that over 1100 people liked the page in less than 5 hours.


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## Dancer (Apr 5, 2010)

Claudia M said:


> glad to see that over 1100 people liked the page in less than 5 hours.



Wow. This actually made my blood pressure rise. So apparently, the Dane did nothing. The elderly retriever started it by walking under the Dane and 'nipping' at him. Then a bunch of other dogs attacked the golden while the Danes owner pulled the Dane away- although since he basically was doing nothing it's not clear why he had to do that. Then the Danes owner and another guy were trying to break up the dog fight while the Golden's owner 'did nothing'. So the fight ends with this guy laying on his Dane (who was never violent in the first place. Ever. He just likes being laid on I guess). Poor soul, the Danes owner thinks 'maybe' it was wrong to leave the altercation. But his dog did nothing and is taking the heat. Time to start a Facebook page and spew drivel about how he's a good, non aggressive dog, you're a good owner caught in a tide of ugly circumstance, and now being wrongly persecuted. Keep it up, maybe you can sell the movie rights (gag). What the hell is the world coming to. 


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## Shellbug (Nov 14, 2013)

Claudia M said:


> glad to see that over 1100 people liked the page in less than 5 hours.



There is a page ?? 


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## Dancer (Apr 5, 2010)

Maggies mom said:


> The owner of the Dane, has told his side of the story on Fb:
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/freezeus


Right here

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## Tayla's Mom (Apr 20, 2012)

The only thing we (forum members and others not there that day) know for certain is a sweet Golden lost his life in a tragic way. We all feel for the owner because it's such a sad situation. Since we weren't there we just don't know if the first story is 100% accurate or the second story is 100% accurate or maybe a bit of both. Everyone sees things through eyes clouded by emotions in these situations. It's just a good lesson to many that bad things happen everyday.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

Tayla's Mom said:


> The only thing we (forum members and others not there that day) know for certain is a sweet Golden lost his life in a tragic way. We all feel for the owner because it's such a sad situation. Since we weren't there we just don't know if the first story is 100% accurate or the second story is 100% accurate or maybe a bit of both. Everyone sees things through eyes clouded by emotions in these situations. It's just a good lesson to many that bad things happen everyday.


I was thinking this also, I would not sign his page, until you know the truth.


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

For me it doesn't matter how it started one dog is dead and the other's life has been changed forever. 

I can't help but think that if there was a do over that these owners would choose to have not taken the risk. 
One dog dead
One 9 month old puppy may be euthanized, taken from his family or put on a very restrictive life.
And another dog may be involved and it's life could be changed forever also.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Dancer said:


> Wow. This actually made my blood pressure rise. So apparently, the Dane did nothing. The elderly retriever started it by walking under the Dane and 'nipping' at him. Then a bunch of other dogs attacked the golden while the Danes owner pulled the Dane away- although since he basically was doing nothing it's not clear why he had to do that. Then the Danes owner and another guy were trying to break up the dog fight while the Golden's owner 'did nothing'. So the fight ends with this guy laying on his Dane (who was never violent in the first place. Ever. He just likes being laid on I guess). Poor soul, the Danes owner thinks 'maybe' it was wrong to leave the altercation. But his dog did nothing and is taking the heat. Time to start a Facebook page and spew drivel about how he's a good, non aggressive dog, you're a good owner caught in a tide of ugly circumstance, and now being wrongly persecuted. Keep it up, maybe you can sell the movie rights (gag). *What the hell is the world coming to. *
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Sorry I am not ready to condemn a dog to death without knowing it's history, without a necropsy on the golden, without knowing the entire situation and what was the role of the third dog in the altercation. 
On a good note I have yet to find a FB page entitled "Kill Zeus". So I guess this world is still a pretty good place.


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## Jennifer1 (Mar 31, 2012)

I agree, I bet everyone involved would choose to stay home if they could get a magical do-over.

I didn't realize the dane was only 9mo old. So very sad for everyone involved.

I am a little skeptical about this 3rd dog. From his description of the situation, if another person had to physically lay on top of this 3rd dog and got into a screaming match with the 3rd dog's owner, you would think someone would have come forward with that information by now. Although, back to my previous point, I'm not sure how much press this is actually getting in the area. We are still talking about it here, but is it still being covered where it happened or was it just a one time news blurb.

Either way, I feel so bad for everyone involved.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Jennifer1 said:


> I agree, I bet everyone involved would choose to stay home if they could get a magical do-over.
> 
> I didn't realize the dane was only 9mo old. So very sad for everyone involved.
> 
> ...


I was wondering what the actual witnesses are reporting about a 3rd dog or other dogs being involved. I take the Dane owner account as mostly justification and denial....the type of owner that gives dog parks bad names. I am more interested in what the witnesses whose dogs were not involved recall. 

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## golden_732 (Aug 26, 2013)

Dallas Gold said:


> I was wondering what the actual witnesses are reporting about a 3rd dog or other dogs being involved. I take the Dane owner account as mostly justification and denial....the type of owner that gives dog parks bad names. I am more interested in what the witnesses whose dogs were not involved recall.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Agreed. There were supposedly over 75 dogs there…someone must have seen something.


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## Jennifer1 (Mar 31, 2012)

Here is another story from when the Dane owner came forward.
It does say that a witness statement said there may have been another dog involved. It doesn't clarify if that witness is the dane owner or someone at the park. It also says they are looking for anyone with video/pictures of the incident.

Owner surrenders Great Dane involved in death of golden retriever at dog park near Wentzville : News


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Dancer said:


> Wow. This actually made my blood pressure rise. So apparently, the Dane did nothing. The elderly retriever started it by walking under the Dane and 'nipping' at him. Then a bunch of other dogs attacked the golden while the Danes owner pulled the Dane away- although since he basically was doing nothing it's not clear why he had to do that. Then the Danes owner and another guy were trying to break up the dog fight while the Golden's owner 'did nothing'. So the fight ends with this guy laying on his Dane (who was never violent in the first place. Ever. He just likes being laid on I guess). Poor soul, the Danes owner thinks 'maybe' it was wrong to leave the altercation. But his dog did nothing and is taking the heat. Time to start a Facebook page and spew drivel about how he's a good, non aggressive dog, you're a good owner caught in a tide of ugly circumstance, and now being wrongly persecuted. Keep it up, maybe you can sell the movie rights (gag). What the hell is the world coming to.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


There are always three sides of a story, yours, theirs, and the truth. Since you weren't there you don't know which side of the story is accurate. For all we know the Dane's owner is right and the Golden's owner is not clear on what actually happened. 

In a situation like this where there are a group of dogs, it is highly likely there were additional dogs that jumped into the fight. It's also very possible the Dane's owner pulled him out of the fight and other dogs continued it. Which would make perfect sense to keep restraining his dog to stop him from going back.

And if someone was yelling and screaming at me in a volatile situation and looked like they were going to become physical, I would leave as well.


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## dborgers (Dec 7, 2011)

I'm probably going to get jumped on, but I've been taking Rudy to a beautiful 5 acre dog park in a nice part of town. Just as when I adopted Andy as a young guy, and since our other two are 9 and 12 pounds who are too small to wrestle with Rudy, I need a place where Rudy can run and play with other dogs his own size. Until recall is 100% I'm limited where I can let him run and play off leash, and especially for play with other dogs. We play ball at night when the kids aren't in school using the football fields.

The owners are mostly professional people who have friendly, well cared for dogs. It's usually the same dogs there about the same times every day, so Rudy has regular friends he plays with. Pit bulls are prohibited. During the day during the week there are usually somewhere between 6-10 dogs there .. on five acres of rolling hills, trees, benches, and picnic tables. Weekends are usually crowded, so we've only gone a couple times then. 

Rudy and the other dogs have had a terrific time playing with each other. Rudy 'asks' for games of wrestling and bitey face by bowing while wagging his tail. When he gets a taker they wrestle, play bitey face, and chase each other for awhile then head to the water fountain for a drink. All the dogs there have a good time. The worst thing I've ever seen happen is one dog humping another, and owners are quick to put a stop to it. If it wasn't safe, I wouldn't take Rudy there.

Anyway, at least where we go, the people are regulars and keep a close eye on their dogs. When Rudy finishes his private training, and I can count on his recall being 100%, our options will vastly increase. But in the meantime, I need a place where a 1+ year old boy can run off energy and have fun with dogs his own size.

Here's a video I shot of Rudy's first time at the dog park. He's slightly obsessed with the water fountain. Half the time he just blows bubbles in the water with his nose


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## Dancer (Apr 5, 2010)

Claudia M said:


> Sorry I am not ready to condemn a dog to death without knowing it's history, without a necropsy on the golden, without knowing the entire situation and what was the role of the third dog in the altercation.
> On a good note I have yet to find a FB page entitled "Kill Zeus". So I guess this world is still a pretty good place.


I agree. It just got my blood boiling a bit to read this owner's story. It seems as though in a couple of his posts he denies, evades, or minimizes his and his dog's role in everything possible while still admitting to being physically present there. There even seemed (to me) to be an undertone of blaming the golden retriever and the Golden's owner- that dog is dead, and I'm pretty sure his owner would've prevented that if he could have. 
A terrible tragedy. And a lesson to think twice about going to a dog park. I wonder when the media will publish what the witnesses had to say about this? 
Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## EddieWouldGo (Mar 25, 2014)

Eddie had a blast at our dog park yesterday. 

Just a quick word about dog parks - all dogs parks are not equal. I'm baffled by the fact that so many folks on this board think that if they've experienced one park they've experienced them all. Ridiculous! Our park (Redondo Beach Dog Park) is huge - it has two sections; one for puppies up to 6 months and/or 30 lbs and one for large dogs. There is plenty of room to move to the other end of the park with Eddie to get away from the more rambunctious dogs which he doesn't like. He is only 4 months but going to the park has been great for his development. He is free to run and get dirty, sniff other dogs and play. That said, I have seen dogs fight in the large dog section and once Eddie is 6 months old, I'll probably be more cautious about taking him.

When I first read this story my immediate thought was 'what a tragic ACCIDENT' - there was a Great Dane in the large dog section of our park yesterday, sweet and gentle. My heart bleeds for Buddy's owner - what a terrible way to watch you beloved dog of ten years die! But it seems that since we are all Golden Retriever owners some people here were pretty fast to pick sides and blame the Dane. Could his bite just have hit a very unfortunate area of Buddy neck? Immediately everyone is screaming bloody murder. This was an ACCIDENT! A terrible tragic ACCIDENT. So sad for Buddy AND Zeus...


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## EddieWouldGo (Mar 25, 2014)

Here's a video of Eddie's 2nd visit to the Park - look how happy he is running with Christian!! IMG 1483 - YouTube


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## alphadude (Jan 15, 2010)

Dancer said:


> I agree. It just got my blood boiling a bit to read this owner's story. It seems as though in a couple of his posts he denies, evades, or minimizes his and his dog's role in everything possible while still admitting to being physically present there. There even seemed (to me) to be an undertone of blaming the golden retriever and the Golden's owner- that dog is dead, and I'm pretty sure his owner would've prevented that if he could have.
> A terrible tragedy. And a lesson to think twice about going to a dog park. I wonder when the media will publish what the witnesses had to say about this?
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I'm not entirely sure the Dane owner is telling the truth. First off, he is trying to prevent his dog from being put down so it's in Zeus's best interest to make him appear totally innocent. I would like to hear the story according to a non biased neutral observer if possible. My second point is going to sound a little arrogant but my belief is that one's credibility diminishes when one is unable to articulate it intelligently. The spelling and grammar in this guys statement was quite poor.

I know from personal experience that dog's don't like their personal space being invaded by smaller dogs being beneath them, but come on, Zeus is a Great Dane. Pretty much EVERY other dog is going to be 'beneath' him. As far as the golden "nipping Zeus's ankles", it sounds just a bit convenient and contrived to me.


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## EddieWouldGo (Mar 25, 2014)

alphadude said:


> I would like to hear the story according to a non biased neutral observer if possible.


Me too... I feel like most folks on this board immediately chose sides, though. If the Dane had been dead, would everyone still be pointing fingers? Yes, a poor Golden Retriever is dead, but two wrongs do not make a right in my opinion. Let's wait to put the Dane down until we really know what happened...


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

Look, even if the Dane did do it... I don't necessarily think that means that he needs to be put down. So this isn't about being bloodthirsty or wanting an eye for an eye. I don't think people were quick to judge the Great Dane, Zeus. The newspaper article said he did it and I didn't see any mention in that first article about any other dogs being involved. Maybe it was just poor reporting... but obviously those who read it were under the impression that it was a foregone conclusion that Zeus was at fault.

But I'm sorry, the owner's story just doesn't add up. How is it possible that multiple people jumped in to help break up the fight... another man wound up wrestling this mysterious third dog to the ground... that man then went after the owner with such venom that the Dane's owner left for fear of a physical altercation... and then all of a sudden everyone is telling the police that the Dane did it? Wouldn't the man who had wrestled the third dog to the ground have told the police what he saw? Wouldn't these other men who came over to help have done the same? I think the part of that statement that really turned me off was "Buddy was still breathing when I left." Still breathing? Not up and walking... not seemingly fine... but just "still breathing." It had to be fairly obvious the dog was badly hurt. If he wanted to avoid a physical confrontation (which was, according to him, directed at the third dog's owner -- not him), he could have done so by waiting in his car for things to settle down. But he just left. He should have stuck around as a witness if his dog wasn't the perpetrator. Leaving makes him look guilty.

For those suggesting that everyone should know better than to go to dog parks because all the information is out there -- even the article originally posted in this thread had this to say, "Dog parks are generally a safe place for dogs to play and socialize, but as with any area, owners must still keep a vigil eye on their pet and observe any other pets that are in the off-leash area." This is the problem. People are so rarely given the right information. I am with others who did not know there was so much danger to dog parks before visiting this forum. I brought Jersey to multiple dog parks as a young dog when I lived in Indiana. I eventually formed my own opinion on some of the owners/dogs there and, bolstered by stories I read on this forum, decided against continuing to do so. But not everyone reads dogs' body language as well as I do (and I'm no expert) and not everyone has a resource like GRF from which they hear these types of stories. And, for the record, my vet in Indy thought it was "great" that I was taking Jersey to the dog park. So many people just don't know what they don't know... and these things continue to happen.

Julie, Jersey and Oz


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

From someone who used to go to dog park frequently (every day when it first opened here), I think it might be hard to find witnesses to this attack. A lot of times, if your dog isn't involved, people don't pay attention to the noise on the other side of the park. Barking and growling happens, no one looks up unless it's close by. (Yes, that's a generalization, but it's based on many many days observing this.) 
Also, whenever there was a problem, ALL the dogs in the vicinity ran to see what was going on. So it's possible that there was more than one dog in this fight. 

But I agree with the poster who said the Dane's owner really needs spell check and grammar check. Nothing makes a person sound less intelligent poor writing - in my not so humble opinion, anyway. 

Zeus, I don't think anyone here has based their opinion of dog parks on just one place. No, I won't take Max to the local park. But I've read multiple stories here from people who don't live anywhere near me, and they all tell the same tale. While there are some that have great experiences, the majority don't.


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## SunshineValley (Apr 3, 2014)

Awww.... this is so sad!!


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## alphadude (Jan 15, 2010)

Jersey's Mom said:


> But I'm sorry, the owner's story just doesn't add up. How is it possible that multiple people jumped in to help break up the fight... another man wound up wrestling this mysterious third dog to the ground... that man then went after the owner with such venom that the Dane's owner left for fear of a physical altercation... and then all of a sudden everyone is telling the police that the Dane did it? Wouldn't the man who had wrestled the third dog to the ground have told the police what he saw? Wouldn't these other men who came over to help have done the same? I think the part of that statement that really turned me off was "Buddy was still breathing when I left." Still breathing? Not up and walking... not seemingly fine... but just "still breathing." It had to be fairly obvious the dog was badly hurt. If he wanted to avoid a physical confrontation (which was, according to him, directed at the third dog's owner -- not him), he could have done so by waiting in his car for things to settle down. But he just left. He should have stuck around as a witness if his dog wasn't the perpetrator. Leaving makes him look guilty.


Totally agree. When the story keeps changing, it usually means that the person telling it is not being entirely truthful. The truth is the truth and it doesn't change. It doesn't need embellishment. Frankly, I think the Dane owner is not the sharpest tool in the shed (as well as being a coward for just leaving) and he's being coached on what to say to save his dog. 

Just my read.


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## Ruby13 (Dec 28, 2013)

I would be equally saddened if we were discussing the death of the Great dane. 

I keep thinking about Zeus' age, and that makes me give his owner the benefit of a doubt. It would be very unusual (in my opinion) for a dog that young - no matter the size - to go in for the kill. It is possible that (as someone suggested) it was truly a bite in the wrong spot, or another dog was involved. Anything is possible, and I'm sure it happened so fast that no one could give exact facts.

It's just a sad, sad situation, for all involved. I feel sorry for animals and their owners, all the way around. I don't care about their spelling, or grammar, or that they made a mistake by being in the park to begin with. It's a mess...


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## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

Unless the Dane, Zeus, compressed Buddy's carotid for an extended amount of time with a vise like bite, severed the jugular or trachea there's really not a perfect "kill" spot in the neck. This is an older dog though so there could very well have been a reason poor Buddy died that wasn't entirely linked to Zeus. I think a necropsy is a very good idea and Zeus should certainly not be punished without proof that Buddy died as a direct result of this fight and that he was the sole perpetrator. Nobody knows what happened except the witnesses. I just don't want this to ever happen to another dog. And I believe it's quite possible for a dog to be dangerously dog aggressive and still be great with people or kids. Zeus's owner is using his friendliness with their family as a defense for his temperament and it's really not a fair assessment.


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## dezymond (May 3, 2012)

Despite him revealing his side of the story, I still think the same of him. He left the scene and it seems he knew that Buddy was on the ground injured. To me, any decent person would remove their dog from the situation and then go back to check up on the dog lying on the ground, that's what I would do anyway if Maverick had any part of an altercation. To just get out and leave like that knowing a dog got injured (I think a dog lying on the ground is a big enough clue), that's just low.

Even if Zeus wasn't the sole perp in this tragedy and should he not get euthanized, he'll still be labeled as an aggressive dog because of how much this has blown up, is what I think. Had this guy stuck around to check and explained what had happened, maybe Zeus could continue living without being marked as an aggressive dog.


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## Rookie's Dad (Feb 19, 2014)

We belong to a members only dog park, at a local church. The members select a board, which then evaluates dogs and owners (do not have to be church members) that want to become members. There is a small fee that goes to the church for park upkeep, and members do all the park upkeep. This way, we can be sure the dogs get along and the people too.


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## alphadude (Jan 15, 2010)

Rookie's Dad said:


> We belong to a members only dog park, at a local church. The members select a board, which then evaluates dogs and owners (do not have to be church members) that want to become members. There is a small fee that goes to the church for park upkeep, and members do all the park upkeep. This way, we can be sure the dogs get along and the people too.


Definitely a better situation although still no guarantee. I have read many stories of dogs that played together for years and then one day suddenly, one of them snaps. 

The problem with the dog parks around here is that they are small. You can get 30 or 40 dogs running around in a small area and there are bound to be problems, Add to that, oblivious owners that do not pay attention or worse yet, idiot kids who seemingly take pleasure in the fact that their aggressive, "status symbol" dog is terrorizing the other dogs in the park.


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## EddieWouldGo (Mar 25, 2014)

laprincessa said:


> Nothing makes a person sound less intelligent poor writing - in my not so humble opinion, anyway.


Nothing makes a person sound less intelligent THAN poor writing, right? 



laprincessa said:


> But I've read multiple stories here from people who don't live anywhere near me, and they all tell the same tale. While there are some that have great experiences, the majority don't.


I respectfully disagree with this... you'll find multiple stories on this board from people who've had pleasant experiences at dog parks and who enjoy taking their dogs to the park. The bad examples tend to stand out - that doesn't mean they are the 'majority'.


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

EddieWouldGo said:


> Nothing makes a person sound less intelligent THAN poor writing, right?
> 
> 
> 
> I respectfully disagree with this... you'll find multiple stories on this board from people who've had pleasant experiences at dog parks and who enjoy taking their dogs to the park. The bad examples tend to stand out - that doesn't mean they are the 'majority'.


Well, slap me and call me stupid, I don't usually make that kind of mistake, but thank you for pointing it out. I shall have to seriously consider limiting my time on the internet, it seems to be impacting my ability to put together a coherent sentence without forgetting words. 


It's up to you if you want to go to dog park. I won't take that chance with Max, I've seen too many bad things and heard too many stories.


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## EddieWouldGo (Mar 25, 2014)

Thought I would post the latest update...

Great Dane involved in fatal dog attack released back to owner : News 

and this from the Great Dane's FB page...

https://www.facebook.com/freezeus


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## Jennifer1 (Mar 31, 2012)

I am actually happy to see that the Dane was not euthanized. I hope one of the requirements is that they don't go to anymore dog parks. Although, I would hope they wouldn't need to be told that by anyone.

Such a sad situation all around


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## Ripley16 (Jan 26, 2012)

This terrifies me. I feel like so many people don't have control or just don't care enough about their dogs to let things like this happen. A well socialized and properly treated and trained dog would not have done that. It saddens me that though we have beautiful designated spaces provided for us by the city to let our dogs socialize and run free, many of us are leery of using them because of the people who carelessly bring unstable dogs into the area. It is such a shame to see all that go to waste because of the mistake of a small percentage of dog owners. We are lucky to have a since sized yard, no problem with strays and off leash dogs in the area, and a 7 acre property at our summer home right on the water complete with a dock for Ripley to drive off of! I feel safe in my area while walking Ripley, but the local off leash parks have had incidents before where dog fights have caused deaths and also poison being put in water bowls at the park (It's hard to keep an eye on every move the dog makes and sometimes Ripley will drink out of the communal buckets before I catch her. :S) We don't go to the dog park anymore, but I wish we could.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

One of the comments made to the article above indicate that Buddy was *not* killed by Zeus 

_And because we understand why you would be wondering, we'd like to share some facts about this case. First, we once again want to extend our condolences to Buddy's family. We are all saddened about their loss.  Throughout the extensive autopsies performed, it was concluded the cause of death was a heart attack and Buddy did not have any puncture wounds inflicted by Zeus. It is also known that there was a 3rd unknown dog involved. It was inconclusive to place guilt on Zeus. Additionally, Zeus had temperament tests done and spent quite some time in "the exercise room" and in the yard with his family, examiner and the Chief ACO, Scott Green. Even on the 10th day of his quarantine hold, Mr. Green stated, "he's a very people friendly dog. [Zeus] Comes right up to you and licks you and leans." We knew that about Zeus the entire time and never gave up. Yes, we pressed for answers. Yes, we were worried the entire time, mostly becuase there was never anything definitive or reassuring. But, we know Zeus and we know he is a good dog. Zeus cannot afford to have any incidents in the future or his life will once again be on the line. - See more at_:


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## Jennifer1 (Mar 31, 2012)

I read that on the Facebook page also


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## Rookie's Dad (Feb 19, 2014)

*A good Park*



Rookie's Dad said:


> We belong to a members only dog park, at a local church. The members select a board, which then evaluates dogs and owners (do not have to be church members) that want to become members. There is a small fee that goes to the church for park upkeep, and members do all the park upkeep. This way, we can be sure the dogs get along and the people too.


Thought I'd add a photo of our park, it's controled, clean, safe, and we keep it that way.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Ripley16 said:


> A well socialized and properly treated and trained dog would not have done that.


I think that's a slap in the face to anyone who has owned a dog aggressive dog. It's just not that simple.


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## mybuddy (Mar 2, 2007)

Years ago, I took Buddy to a dog play group. It was not a "dog park" but was in the park. There were probably about 10-15 dogs or so. I went with a friend, another golden retriever. As soon as we got there, a lab viciously attacked my friend's golden. It was horrible. His boy was OK in the end but pretty shaken up.

At the time, I cannot say that we were lacking in any common sense, but probably education and experience. I had never heard of such a thing happening and up to that point, had no negative experiences with group play. 

That was the last time I had ever allowed Buddy to be in a group situation, unless I knew the dogs and their owners.

I feel so horrible for Buddy's owners. They didn't get a second chance. They must be devastated.


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

Oh my goodness! That is so tragic! I used to like dog parks. Now I won't take Mercy to a public dog park. Your dog can still suffer damage without being attacked. Just being picked on can cause psychological harm. I still love play-dates with dogs that are all in harmony with each other.


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## Dryloofah (Aug 30, 2013)

they are some aggressive dogs, but can never tell until too late. I took my dog to a local pet store when she was 7 months old, and a smaller dog suddenly attack my dog, and I had to send her to the vet, cost 800 dollar bill, but the smaller dog's owner paid. I'd say call animal control right away when this kind of thing happens.


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

Tayla's Mom said:


> I agree. We had a very similar incident happen to us with some new people moving in a couple houses down the street. We were coming back from a walk with me holding Tayla's leash and my husband had Lily's leash. We had only had Lily about a month (she was adopted so she was about 4.5 years old) at that point. They had their front door open and the back gate and we had just pasted their driveway when their pit came charging out barking and did a quick circle around that past Lily. Thank God he kept going and back into their yard. The lady was very apologetic and said she was sorry. I said that's OK, but don't let that be a habit because it's one I won't hesitate to report. No harm, but it scared me to death because I'm always so loose dog aware. Had he meant harm he would have had Lily in a split second. Would it have been my fault for walking her in my neighborhood - no. It would have been their fault, but what difference does it make if my dog is hurt?


 My previous dog, a Lab/GSD Coal, was attacked by a pit-bull when he was a year old. The owner was present, but the gate was open and the dog came flying out. It latched onto Coal and the owner could not get her off. Eventually he was able to make his dog let go and Coal got away with minor injuries.


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

***Sigh*** I'm probably gonna get some heat for this, but after seeing the Free Zeus FaceBook story and hearing the man's story and the fact that Zeus was loved by children, my heart felt for them too. Of course my heart goes out way more to the owner of the Golden. At first, I was angry when I saw it. I was thinking a beast like that should be put to sleep. I can see both sides of these kinds of stories. Animal Control asked me what I wanted to do about the pitt-bull who attacked my dog Coal, and I said that I did not want her put to sleep, since she had an owner who loved her. Of course the dog had to be much better confined. Why did Zeus attack Buddy? He seems unpredictable. I wouldn't have blamed others for wanting Zeus put to sleep, but I am glad to see that there are people who care and were willing to hear his story and his family's plight and offer support and help. My concern is what if Zeus attacks another dog? He is going to have to be under strict and guarded constraint at all times.


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

Sunrise said:


> One of the comments made to the article above indicate that Buddy was *not* killed by Zeus
> 
> _And because we understand why you would be wondering, we'd like to share some facts about this case. First, we once again want to extend our condolences to Buddy's family. We are all saddened about their loss. Throughout the extensive autopsies performed, it was concluded the cause of death was a heart attack and Buddy did not have any puncture wounds inflicted by Zeus. It is also known that there was a 3rd unknown dog involved. It was inconclusive to place guilt on Zeus. Additionally, Zeus had temperament tests done and spent quite some time in "the exercise room" and in the yard with his family, examiner and the Chief ACO, Scott Green. Even on the 10th day of his quarantine hold, Mr. Green stated, "he's a very people friendly dog. [Zeus] Comes right up to you and licks you and leans." We knew that about Zeus the entire time and never gave up. Yes, we pressed for answers. Yes, we were worried the entire time, mostly becuase there was never anything definitive or reassuring. But, we know Zeus and we know he is a good dog. Zeus cannot afford to have any incidents in the future or his life will once again be on the line. - See more at_:


Buddy was an old dog, so I can see how the stress could have just caused him to keel over. Looks like the truth won out.


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

I feel like I'm in a constant back and forth about this story the more I read about it. 

First, I'm glad they're not putting Zeus down. He's a 9 month old puppy who was put in a situation that wasn't necessarily good for him plus he's a very large dog that can cause a lot of damage without much effort. And I'm glad it was handled relatively quickly to minimize the trauma to Zeus (and the family) of him being in a shelter environment. 

Second, it had briefly crossed my mind that Buddy may have died of natural causes during the event. I had wondered if he had an undiagnosed case of SAS or a burst tumor... because none of the articles or quotes or comments from people who were supposedly there ever mentioned seeing blood. I suppose a windpipe could be crushed without blood... maybe??... or probably any number of things I'm not thinking of... but it seemed odd that no one mentioned any blood at all, just a glassy look in his eyes and he was gone. So did Zeus even really attack Buddy at all? Was it rough play? Was an adolescent dog proving his merit and giving a firm response to a dog he perceived as being rude for wandering under him and nipping his legs? Would any of that actually make Zeus a dangerous dog? But then again if that is the whole story, I do have to wonder why there were so many conditions to Zeus' release?

Which brings me to my next thought: I find it very telling in the owner's account on the site at the end of the comment quoted above (on the page with the article, it was omitted in the post) that they mention how people-friendly Zeus is but don't mention the outcome of any assessment with other dogs. I don't think anyone ever accused the dog of being human aggressive and I don't think his friendliness toward people was ever in question. The question is whether he is reactive or aggressive toward other dogs. But then again... that said, he's a 9 month old puppy and I think even if he is reactive (or perhaps even aggressive), that significant progress can be made through training. And if he, in fact, isn't reactive or aggressive toward other dogs, I think it's wrong of them to require him to be muzzled when out in public (I'm assuming that would be all walks because you never know when you might run into an unfamiliar dog or person) for the rest of his hopefully long life. 

And I'm sorry if this sounds cold but it really bothers me that there's now a fundraising effort to sponsor the dog's training. Anyone who brings a dog into their life should expect to pay for training classes, regardless of a terrible incident like this one. Heck, I'd love for someone to sponsor my dogs' training... and while they're at it they can help with Ozzie's eventual hip surgery and the massive vet bills I've wracked up over the last year+ with Jersey's infection... would certainly help my bank account look a little healthier! But that's the bargain you make when you get a dog. I don't know, it just rubs me the wrong way but then again, I'm in a pretty grumpy mood already today, lol. I'll just stick with I'm glad another dog didn't have to die in this story. I hope it works out for everyone involved and that Buddy's owner finds peace and solace now that all the hoopla is over.

Julie, Jersey and Oz


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## Ripley16 (Jan 26, 2012)

Jersey's mom, I agree with you. Zeus' owners are fiscally responsible for their own dog, and his aggressive behaviour towards dogs is something that they need to pay for. Why should others have to foot the bill for your dogs training because he killed another dog? I think that the owners need to at least pay a handsome fine. In a way, I am glad that Zeus was released, but my feelings are conflicted. Does anyone know the conditions of the release thou? I do really hope that there are restrictions with it. Also the owners should be concerned with the well being of their young children. I wouldn't trust a dog who has done something like that around children at all.


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## Jennifer1 (Mar 31, 2012)

The latest article posted above has the conditions listed. I can't seem to grab a quote for some reason.

No dog parks or off-leash facilities. Training, behavior evals, no-bite muzzle when other people or animals around.

The article also has a statement that the necropsy showed no bite wounds, crush wounds, or other discernible cause of death.

Here is the link to the article again
http://m.stltoday.com/news/local/cr...51e2-b290-da42a14af426.html?mobile_touch=true


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## Dancer (Apr 5, 2010)

Wow. Who feels it's ok to ask strangers for money to cover the cost of their own responsibility?? This isn't a charity. This is a guy who really seems to like portraying himself as some kind if martyr (that line in Facebook where he says he's being so strong for his family was a bit much). Man up- you got a puppy of the largest dog breed 7 months ago- you didn't think he'd need training?? No wonder poor Zeus ended up in the situation he did, if this is the mindset. If you can't afford training, you can't afford a dog. A real man doesn't make public announcements about how emotionally strong he's being for his children, nor paint himself as a martyr. A real man does what he needs to do to cover his own responsibilities and the costs of them, and teaches his children by that example. I fear for Zeus' future if this guy is actually the person he seems to be on Facebook. 


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

One of the many reasons we stopped going to the dog park was because of a young guy who had two GSD's, both of whom were dog aggressive, and he thought it quite amusing to turn them loose on a dog of their choice and laugh while they tried to take that dog down. They went after Max one day, after they'd gone for a Goldendoodle who was one of the sweetest, gentlest dogs I ever met. That dog's owner called the park rangers - who informed me that those dogs were not at all aggressive and why did we think they were?
They weren't at all aggressive to people. But other dogs - watch out. 
I seriously hope that this is not the case with Zeus.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

I haven't read the whole thread, but I keep seeing digs about his efforts to raise money for training classes. There are some generalized statements being made about people who raise money for their "responsibilities" and it rubs me. It rubs me because I was someone who raised money for Bear when his knees blew. I had many people go OUT of their way to tell me how horrible of an owner I was for being so IRRESPONSIBLE and not being able to afford his surgery. 

There might be extenuating circumstances that the public is not aware of. Perhaps someone up and sued him for the death of their dog. Maybe he has a pile of lawyer bills over the incident. Who knows. But if people are willing to give money to help him, then why not? Maybe Zeus has to go to a special set of classes, specifically for dogs involved in fights or deaths.

ETA - I found the fundraising page, and it was NOT set up by the owners. Just another kernel to chew on.


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## astropdoggy (Jun 28, 2010)

Absolute tragedy. Thoughts and prayers go out to Buddy and his poor family. Our hearts are with you.


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## Dancer (Apr 5, 2010)

astropdoggy said:


> Absolute tragedy. Thoughts and prayers go out to Buddy and his poor family. Our hearts are with you.



This exactly. Buddy. The dog who died and his family. That's the only 'kernel' worth chewing on here, IMO. 

Buddy's family has my sympathies on what they witnessed and the loss of their dog. Other than that, I don't see that there's any gain to discussing this further. So on that note, I'm out. 


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

So they are saying Buddy died from natural causes? If so it sounds like the Dane was in the wrong place wrong time. Sad either way.


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## Golden999 (Jun 29, 2010)

Dancer said:


> Wow. Who feels it's ok to ask strangers for money to cover the cost of their own responsibility?? This isn't a charity.


I think it's fine for anyone to ask for money for anything, as long as people are honest about their circumstances and why they are asking, or simply ask without stating why, and it isn't something coercive or shakedown-like (i.e. intimidating people showing up at your front door), which this isn't (It's just a web page). It's a free country. No one has to give. If some want to give, they can. If others don't, they don't, and no one they know will know they didn't, or even that they viewed the web page in question.

I don't know why people get upset over these kind of fundraisers. I'm sure this dude was approached by people asking if there was a way they could donate and created the page as a result. Nobody has to give, but why shouldn't they be allowed to if they want to?

To be honest, I get much more upset about everything from grocery stores to fast food restaurants to the dollar store asking me if I want to contribute money to oddball charities and have the contribution tacked on to my total. It puts me in an awkward social situation where I am face to face with someone and maybe have other people around and look bad by saying no. So I say no on principle. Besides, a lot of these things they want donations for seem a little odd, or like they are benefiting people who are better off than I am (Like, no, I don't want to contribute to buying ipads for teenagers, I need this money to pay my electric bill, thanks. And I don't have an ipad myself.). But I'd have no issue with them printing up little tags you could grab off a rack and have scanned for a donation when ringing up your order, a machine that you could insert a card into like an ATM and have it charge you $1 or whatever, or a box you could drop cash into, and have no problems with websites and such. By making it totally anonymous, they take any perceived social pressure out of it, and if you want to help, you can help, and if you don't want to for whatever reason, or can't due to personal financial issues, you can decline to without any consequences, or even the fear of looking bad. Kind of like those things where you can text a number on your phone to automatically donate $10 to hurricane victims or whatever- easy to do and no one will ever know whether you did or didn't do it except the phone company, the bank, and charity, and even there probably not the people you'd talk to in a customer service type situation. Those are cool.



> If you can't afford training, you can't afford a dog.


In this specific situation, I think this guy would have been better off (going back in time to the decision about which dog to get) buying a a slightly smaller breed with friendly happy-go-lucky reputation like, say, a golden retriever.  I find the idea that people shouldn't have dogs if they can't afford specialized training or this that or the other pretty offensive, though. There seems to be a war on the poor in terms of both everyday rhetoric and in terms of the laws and such that are passed. Class-ism is rampant, and it's not people being envious of billionaires, it's people who don't think the poor deserve to lead decent lives and have simple things like a family pet or an Internet connection or whatever. I find it a really ugly thing.

The problem here isn't even really the breed, or a lack of professional training, if there is a problem it's taking a large aggressive breed dog without much training to a dog park and not properly supervising him. That dog apparently did fine at home with family and friends. It just should have been kept on a leash for walks and only roamed free in a fenced in yard and in the home (Or maybe a deserted area) and to be introduced carefully to other dogs in controlled situations (i.e. dogs of friends and that sort of thing with both dogs on leashes or whatever initially), that's all. The dog just needed more supervision and to not be put in situations where this kind of thing could happen. It has nothing to do with money.

Even in this situation, to be honest, now that the whole story is coming out and the "attacking" dog didn't even touch the victim, and was drug away by it's owner, I find this much less of an issue with a lot of culpability. I've had had like 3 or 4 loose dogs that have come up and growled and made a lunge at my dog over the years, a couple getting close enough to leave slobber, and I haven't made a federal case out of it. In most cases, it was some sort of misunderstanding that wasn't anyone's fault. Once or twice it was a situation where a dog really shouldn't have been there. But I basically tell people if your dog looks like he's about to attack my dog and is off-leash, I reserve the right to get involved physically, and it won't necessarily be restraining my dog, it could be pinning the other dog and doing whatever it takes to mitigate the danger. Of course, in reality, I usually just pull my dog behind me and keep him out of the way and let another dog's owner bring their own dog under control, but I do remember once having a dog charge my dog out of nowhere and grabbing that dog by the collar, having my hand slip from the collar, and the two dogs and I just circling each other with the other dog lunging in my dog's direction and me lunging in that dog's direction periodically (I think that actually helped, the other dog kept sort of having to pull back it's lunges toward my dog because it saw me lunging at it and knew if it paused to bite my dog, I'd be on top of it) until the other dog's owner showed up.


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## thorbreafortuna (Jun 9, 2013)

I was going to point out that some recent posts don't seem to recognize the new evidence, specifically how the necropsy shows NO wounds on the golden. At this point I don't think we can accurately say that Zeus killed the golden and I don't even think it's so clear that he is aggressive as such. It's an unfortunate event for all involved and yes, especially for Buddy and his family, but I don't think we get to judge this guy or his dog any more. "Don't judge me, you could be me...in another life, in another set of circumstances...(Sting is so wise)"
I'm sure there will be some who believe they do have the right to judge, that they know how things are or should be without a shadow of a doubt and always act accordingly. Cheers to you, I hope it makes you a happy person. Personally, I'm going to abstain.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

I feel it is okay for people who need additional money that they cannot afford to continue loving their dog to ask for help.

It is better to ask for help than to lose your dog or have your dog live a life of pain. 

This is a 9 month old dog and the evidence states he did not kill Buddy. How could the owners possibly have known what a horrible outcome that day would have?



Dancer said:


> Wow. Who feels it's ok to ask strangers for money to cover the cost of their own responsibility?? This isn't a charity. This is a guy who really seems to like portraying himself as some kind if martyr (that line in Facebook where he says he's being so strong for his family was a bit much). Man up- you got a puppy of the largest dog breed 7 months ago- you didn't think he'd need training?? No wonder poor Zeus ended up in the situation he did, if this is the mindset. If you can't afford training, you can't afford a dog. A real man doesn't make public announcements about how emotionally strong he's being for his children, nor paint himself as a martyr. A real man does what he needs to do to cover his own responsibilities and the costs of them, and teaches his children by that example. I fear for Zeus' future if this guy is actually the person he seems to be on Facebook.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

My rule of thumb is this - If you didn't borrow that money from me, I don't get to tell you what to do with it. If you're not asking me to pay your bills so you can go out and spend your money on something else, I don't get to judge. 

On the other hand - if you ask me to buy you groceries, you don't get to tell me you want Coke instead of the store brand. 

If people want to give to this guy, it's their business. Should he have gotten such a big dog? Probably not, but he has Zeus and he's trying to do the right thing, 

That's all I gotta say.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

I don't understand why the Dane has restrictions and is required to be trained, evaluated and wear a muzzle if he did not do any damage to the Golden.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

mylissyk said:


> I don't understand why the Dane has restrictions and is required to be trained, evaluated and wear a muzzle if he did not do any damage to the Golden.


I'm sure it is because he bit the other dog to begin with and was involved with the dog fight. 

Considering his age (9 month old puppy, possible fear stage, had a bad experience with other dogs with the dog fight, etc), I'm sure he showed signs of excitement or reactiveness while being tested. May not have been showing actual aggression, but considering his size and the sensitivity about the case, I imagine they had to really crack down and make sure he doesn't get into trouble. 

The thing that I find scary is so many people know where this family lives. That can't be safe for the puppy.


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## Cuddysmom (Feb 6, 2014)

Yea, this park is a few miles away from my house. So scary!


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## alphadude (Jan 15, 2010)

Golden999 said:


> I think it's fine for anyone to ask for money for anything, as long as people are honest about their circumstances and why they are asking, or simply ask without stating why, and it isn't something coercive or shakedown-like (i.e. intimidating people showing up at your front door), which this isn't (It's just a web page). It's a free country. No one has to give. If some want to give, they can. If others don't, they don't, and no one they know will know they didn't, or even that they viewed the web page in question.
> 
> I don't know why people get upset over these kind of fundraisers. I'm sure this dude was approached by people asking if there was a way they could donate and created the page as a result. Nobody has to give, but why shouldn't they be allowed to if they want to?
> 
> ...


Agree totally with the classism statement as well as the obnoxious money grabs for obscure charities at cashiers everywhere. Luckily, I am an equally obnoxious New Yorker who has zero trouble telling them "I'll pass on the donation and probably shopping here in the future because of the pressure". If I want to donate to a charity I am perfectly capable of finding it and donating.

Totally agree also with your policy of reserving the right to take whatever physical measures necessary to protect your dog from an unruly, unsupervised, attacker.


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