# Front movement



## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

I am not one of the gurus (yet I keep butting my head into these threads!) but I've noticed dogs in the ring who move wide in the front. One of them I happened to notice it on his down and back right before he won a 4 point major.  Certainly this is a single dog I'm talking about, but on an otherwise very nice dog it didn't prevent him from winning. I believe he's almost finished too.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

It is a widespread problem. This is good and bad. Bad that it needs to improve, good that it won't necessarily prevent an otherwise worthy dog from finishing. Fisher moves VERY wide coming at you. Why I don't know. He has average prosternum, good shoulder layback and excellent return of upper arm. 
He won under judges who put a premium on breed type, side movement, head, topline, athleticism, personality. It took me 18 months to finish him owner handled in FL, showing at least once a month.


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## lilbitofsunshine (Feb 5, 2011)

Thank you both for your input, it is much appreciated. Trying to make a big decision and getting feedback like this is very helpful


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

K9-Design said:


> It is a widespread problem. This is good and bad. Bad that it needs to improve, good that it won't necessarily prevent an otherwise worthy dog from finishing. Fisher moves VERY wide coming at you. Why I don't know. He has average prosternum, good shoulder layback and excellent return of upper arm.
> He won under judges who put a premium on breed type, side movement, head, topline, athleticism, personality. It took me 18 months to finish him owner handled in FL, showing at least once a month.


k9-design,
I've heard that moving wide can be the result of a dog having slightly more rear angulation than front angulation, is that true in Fisher and/or the dogs you've seen who have the same issue?


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

goldenjackpuppy said:


> k9-design,
> I've heard that moving wide can be the result of a dog having slightly more rear angulation than front angulation, is that true in Fisher and/or the dogs you've seen who have the same issue?


Yes I would say that's true with Fisher although not to an extreme degree. He does *not* crab/sidewind at all and has a solid topline on the move with no roll so, it would make sense that to compensate for some overreaching in the rear he moves wide in the front to make room for the rear feet. I've thought of that before as well.


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## lilbitofsunshine (Feb 5, 2011)

I've also thought it to be a result of a short upper arm, although that is not the case in this particular instance. In this case I believe it to be slightly more rear angles than front, although the front angles seem decent. From what I can tell based on pics, at least. Waiting for video.

In my other breed, a short upper arm is very common and often goes with wide movement. When there are good front angles, but more rear angles than front, it seems to be that while movement may be wide it is more subtle and when shorter upper arms and upright shoulders are involved it is more drastic and side gait is often affected as well, without adequate reach. Just what I've noticed


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## hvgoldens4 (Nov 25, 2009)

Moving wide in the front can come from a lot of different things. It can be a short upper arm, wide set shoulders, more rear than front and it can also be the handler stringing the dog up and not letting them move properly. Goldens are supposed to be shown on a loose lead at a moderate speed but they aren't always shown that way so this can also lead to some movement faults.

It is a problem in the breed and when you read the breed standard and study the breed, they are supposed to converge. I would pay special attention to the side gait on a dog that doesn't converge as many tend to crab or don't get full extension because of structural faults that can cause them to move wide.


Jennifer


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