# Sad story on CG



## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

There is a thread on CG by JOIL. Some of you have talked to her about her dog Tristan who is a little over a year old

Well, this week JOIL gave Tristan a ham bone, and when she went near him he grabbed her arm. Her husband came in and he bit her husband's hand where he needed stitches. They have decided to put the dog down tomorrow.

There must be something that can be done? I just feel that they are giving up too soon. Will a vet put a dog down without making sure all options have been explored?


----------



## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

Has this dog had issues with food aggression before? It doesn't seem right to put a dog down after a first incident. If the dog has never been trained, how can he not deserve another chance?


----------



## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

I went through her threads, and when the dog was 8-9 months, she mentioned her dog having problems biting her hands. I could not tell if it was normal puppy stuff or aggression. 

I know a lot of people believe one bite and the dog is gone. It just seems to premature. Especially if the dog has a bone. They don't have any kids.


----------



## Oaklys Dad (Dec 28, 2005)

Thanks for cross posting. I just replied over there for what it is worth. I hope they look for some tough training to resolve the situation.


----------



## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

Many of us have dealt with food agression at some point. Samson growled at Ricky over a treat when he was a puppy and I'm sure he would have bit him had Ricky continued going for the treat. I just feel like until you've trained them NOT to do it, it's not their fault yet...


----------



## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Thank you for everybody who has posted over there. I just feel so helpless.


----------



## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

RickGibbs said:


> Many of us have dealt with food agression at some point. Samson growled at Ricky over a treat when he was a puppy and I'm sure he would have bit him had Ricky continued going for the treat. I just feel like until you've trained them NOT to do it, it's not their fault yet...


I agree. Brady did the same thing to me a couple of times at a couple months old. I made sure to stop it at that age because I knew it would be dangerous as he got older. It worked, I grabbed a 12 ounce steak out of his mouth just yesterday - no problem.


----------



## Brinkleysmom (Dec 17, 2005)

I posted over there and she has an option. Jody at HBGRR can help her out. Jody has taken dogs before with problems and sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesnt but at least the option is there for her as opposed to putting Tristan down. I just think he deserves that chance. If it doesnt work out maybe he can just live out his life at the sanctuary. I just think this is a case where he does not have to be put down. Lets hope it has a happy ending like Rob said.


----------



## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

Brinkleysmom said:


> I posted over there and she has an option. Jody at HBGRR can help her out. Jody has taken dogs before with problems and sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesnt but at least the option is there for her as opposed to putting Tristan down. I just think he deserves that chance. If it doesnt work out maybe he can just live out his life at the sanctuary. I just think this is a case where he does not have to be put down. Lets hope it has a happy ending like Rob said.


I completely agree. Remember, Cosmo was labeled a biter....and we haven't had any problems since we've had him (almost six months now).


----------



## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

I know someone else who adopted a dog considered a biter and he's been in his new home for about 3 years now and has never bitten.


----------



## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

cubbysan said:


> There is a thread on CG by JOIL. Some of you have talked to her about her dog Tristan who is a little over a year old
> 
> Well, this week JOIL gave Tristan a ham bone, and when she went near him he grabbed her arm. Her husband came in and he bit her husband's hand where he needed stitches. They have decided to put the dog down tomorrow.
> 
> There must be something that can be done? I just feel that they are giving up too soon. Will a vet put a dog down without making sure all options have been explored?


How sad....... I agree with you on them given up to soon.... A trainer could help them .....Even tho Tristan is bigger than Morgan.... Morgan was given up because of "biting" and after working with our trainer he's never tried to bite again.... it was a bone as well.... he gets them all the time and hes fine.....


----------



## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

I followed all your threads over there and thank you. I guess all we can do now is hope she comes back onto the thread...


----------



## Lexie's Mom (Dec 14, 2005)

Ok, first of all, IMO food aggression is not a reason to put a dog down. This dog just hasn't been taught properly. This is something, as all responsible dog owners, should do. This will only happen again to these people if they get another dog and do not teach proper behavior. I hate that this happened but it's only doing what dogs do in the outside world. This can be fixed with proper training and it's not too late. I wish them all the best and I do hope that they do NOT put this dog down for something like this. I would understand if it attacked but this was a territorial issue that needs addressed. This is not a bad dog.


----------



## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I had to really think if I wanted to respond to this, but I decided to go for it.

If a dog bit me over a ham bone, then attacked my husband to the degree that medical care was required, I'm not sorry to say he would be gone. *Dogs that do not maul people die every day in shelters and in rescue because they have no homes.*

If my dogs even look at me funny when they have a bone or toy and I touch it or them they get a very hard correction. I'm all for giving dogs chances, and I have rehabilitated fear biters who snapped at me the day I rescued them out of terror. I have rehabilitated dogs that growled a little when they had a toy or bone. Hell, my own Keira growled at Courtney the other day when Courtney petted her while she was eating her leg quarter. I scruffed her hard, gave her a firm but gentle shake and shouted, NO WAY!!!! And took the food away. I offered it back and petted her face and she licked our hands and backed off from the food. Problem solved, but we will keep testing her. That I don't consider a problem- she was just trying a theory, similar to baby George when he growled at Ant. 

This is the one area where, while I will use positive training to work with the dog overall and build a relationship, I do use a hard correction, because frankly, I have ZERO human aggression tolerance. 

Maybe if this dog had lived with me, the problem would have been nipped before it ever got this far, so that would have to be one heck of a monster to go after me after the way I would have handled the first incidents. So it really is hard to say, I guess, bc the only perspective I know is my own. I do not fear dogs at all, and when my 100 pound Borzoi (whom I had recently bought as an adult, and did not raise myself) went after me because he had a bone, his teeth didn't meet my flesh, and he was on his back before he knew what hit him. It never happened again.

If the owner is wary of the dog because of this incident (and who could blame her?) then there will not be trust. Without trust established, their relationship will never be good.

I also do not understand why a rescue with a never ending supply of non biting needy Goldens would risk it with a dog that is KNOWN to have sent somebody to the ER for stitches. To my knowledge, Cosmo never did that. If it works out, great! I'm just saying- this is a tough place to be in, and nobody rushes to euthanize a beloved pet. 

I have euthanized rescue dogs that I decided were a danger to other animals or to humans. It's horrible- but it does not make these people evil. Loving dogs is often a painful experience. 

I sincerely hope that a trainer could help this dog if they decide to try. Everyone involved will have some hard work ahead of them.


----------



## Griffyn'sMom (Mar 22, 2007)

Nobody knows that dog better than his owners. There may be other incidences that were not posted as well. I'm sure they will discuss this in depth with their Vet before proceeding. They may also be legally obligated in their City/State to do so if medical treatment was required for their injuries.

It is such a shame over a stupid ham bone. But it's clear he wanted that bone more than pleasing his owners.


----------



## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

It is just so sad and I do realize it is a hard place to be.

She is a first time dog owner. Her husband had dogs when he was a child.

I know that the problems I had with my shepherd were partly due from my inexperience with a large breed dog. My husband and I lived and learned. We had treated him more like our child, rather than a dog. In addition, I had also found out that when he was outside, there were children taunting him and throwing rocks at him. It was a neighbor that had witnessed that. I was then able to catch the children doing it, lecture the children, and contact the school the children were walking from. But then again, that same dog, is the only dog that I have ever had that never once growled at me (or my husband), he never even challenged us as a puppy.


----------



## HovawartMom (Aug 10, 2006)

A dog doesn't just turn on it's owner without previous signs!.
It might turn out that the dog doesn't know his place and has become the boss.
What's the story?.Was he a rescue?.


----------



## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Just an update.. Joil's husband said he was not ready to give up on their dog yet. She will keep us posted on what they end up doing and thanked everybody.

I hope they find the right trainer.


----------



## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

cubbysan said:


> Just an update.. Joil's husband said he was not ready to give up on their dog yet. She will keep us posted on what they end up doing and thanked everybody.
> 
> I hope they find the right trainer.


Thats great...I hope they find the a good trainer.... I know this dog can be fixed....


----------



## HovawartMom (Aug 10, 2006)

Good fo them but I would get a trainer,ASAP cos if not corrected,it will happen,again!.


----------



## robinsegg26 (Nov 14, 2006)

oh thats great news! hope everything works out!


----------



## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

golden&hovawart said:


> A dog doesn't just turn on it's owner without previous signs!.
> It might turn out that the dog doesn't know his place and has become the boss.
> What's the story?.Was he a rescue?.


There's no doubt in my mind, as I read this thread, that the earlier signs were merely glossed over with excuses and never dealt with. Unless that dog has genetic damage, the owners are responsible for the condition of their relationship with their dog. However my concern would be they obviously don't have a clue as to the problem much less being able to carry out a solution... it is nice that they've decided to 'try again' but I don't feel very hopeful. This is one reason I have always disagreed with the often given advice (on this forum no less) to simply remove the offending item from the menu as the solution/fix.... wrong, you only postpone the showdown... the next time the dog is bigger, stronger, faster, and more confident.


----------



## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> Maybe if this dog had lived with me, the problem would have been nipped before it ever got this far...


This is exactly what my point is though. It got to this point because it was taken care of before...


----------



## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

cubbysan said:


> Just an update.. Joil's husband said he was not ready to give up on their dog yet. She will keep us posted on what they end up doing and thanked everybody.
> 
> I hope they find the right trainer.


I'm really happy to hear that....hope it all works out for them....


----------



## sharlin (Feb 26, 2007)

Just from reading the note I do believe they're going to go about this the right way and correct the behavior, just not gloss over the circumstances. She's been given quite a few contacts to make this happen. Let's keep paws crossed.


----------



## Chaucer and Mom (Feb 26, 2007)

I don't know whether anyone mentioned it; but they should definitely avoid giving Tristan such high value treats especially if he doesn't know his place.

I hope all goes well for them.

Oops... I just read Joil's post about not ever giving him a bone again. My thoughts are with them. Such a terrible thing to happen.


----------



## foreveramber (Feb 25, 2007)

Brinkleysmom said:


> I posted over there and she has an option. Jody at HBGRR can help her out. Jody has taken dogs before with problems and sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesnt but at least the option is there for her as opposed to putting Tristan down. I just think he deserves that chance. If it doesnt work out maybe he can just live out his life at the sanctuary. I just think this is a case where he does not have to be put down. Lets hope it has a happy ending like Rob said.


 
i read the thread an im pretty sure she never mentioned putting the dog to sleep. she said her husband said the dog had to go. that could mean selling him, putting him up for adoption, anything.


----------



## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

foreveramber said:


> i read the thread an im pretty sure she never mentioned putting the dog to sleep. she said her husband said the dog had to go. that could mean selling him, putting him up for adoption, anything.


 
This is the quote from CG:

"We called a lot of places asking around if some good people would take him,the fact is after I tell them what hapened everybody sais it would be best to put him down.So that's what will hapen tomorrow."


----------



## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

Lexie's Mom said:


> Ok, first of all, IMO food aggression is not a reason to put a dog down. This dog just hasn't been taught properly. This is something, as all responsible dog owners, should do. This will only happen again to these people if they get another dog and do not teach proper behavior. I hate that this happened but it's only doing what dogs do in the outside world. This can be fixed with proper training and it's not too late. I wish them all the best and I do hope that they do NOT put this dog down for something like this. I would understand if it attacked but this was a territorial issue that needs addressed. This is not a bad dog.


I couldn't agree more. They need to work with the dog. Giving a dog up without trying is just heartbreaking. I haven't read through this whole thread, but I hope someone was able to step in and help. I feel sick to my stomach...


----------



## Chaucer and Mom (Feb 26, 2007)

GoldenShamus said:


> I couldn't agree more. They need to work with the dog. Giving a dog up without trying is just heartbreaking. I haven't read through this whole thread, but I hope someone was able to step in and help. I feel sick to my stomach...


I think Joil posted that they're not going to give up on him. What she didn't say is whether they were getting a trainer in the house or trying to work with the problem themselves.


----------



## Brinkleysmom (Dec 17, 2005)

They are going to try working with Tristan and giving him another chance and getting some help. If all else fails, she will contact Jody at Homeward Bound in California, and Jody will take him. Hopefully it will not come to that. Sounds like they really want to work it out which is good news


----------



## Brinkleysmom (Dec 17, 2005)

foreveramber said:


> i read the thread an im pretty sure she never mentioned putting the dog to sleep. she said her husband said the dog had to go. that could mean selling him, putting him up for adoption, anything.


True, however with the dog being aggressive with the bone and what not, she would not be selling him to anyone hopefully and putting him up for adoption would be tough with that history. This is why I and Steve recommended Jody at HBGRR to her. So that she had an option. A lot of times when dogs do this, they are put down and we just didnt want to see this happen. Most cases, it can be resolved but people will tell you to put the dog down. Its happened before and it will happen again. We just wanted her to know she had options. That simple.


----------



## JPD (Feb 26, 2007)

Kimm said:


> I know someone else who adopted a dog considered a biter and he's been in his new home for about 3 years now and has never bitten.


I believe Kimm may be referring to my Payton. He was being Put-To-Sleep because he bit the owners son in the face. It's a rather long story but my 9 year old Granddaughter hugs Payton now. He was covered in Hot Spots when I rescued him. He was literally chewing himself to death. He and Jordan are BEST Friends and always together.

ENJOY


----------



## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

I'll never forget his story, nor the reunion with that little boy JPD!!! Thank you for giving him a second chance. He's done you proud!


----------



## JPD (Feb 26, 2007)

Kimm...You still have the FASTEST FINGERS. You're still my FAVORITE....LOL


----------



## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Oh gosh, how I did enjoy your pictures, JPD. Brings tears to my eyes ... I'm so happy for Payton, he loves you so. One of the greatest stories I've ever heard.

Thank you for the pictures. I'm happier now for seeing them. :wave:


----------



## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

JPD said:


> Kimm...You still have the FASTEST FINGERS. You're still my FAVORITE....LOL


Awww.....thanks JPD! You've got a big heart! How's Mo?

I love the photos!!!


----------



## JPD (Feb 26, 2007)

MOE is fine. Jordan has been running around like he is a little pup...LOL Jordan turned 10 on May 2nd ..... and Payton was 6 on May 5th. I really believe they talk to each other to see what they can get into !!! Like your Tucker carrying around the Skates...I'm still laughing about that one.

EVERY Golden is Worth saving.....you just have to give it your "ALL" You also need to be able to "READ" their signs.


----------



## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

JPD said:


> I believe Kimm may be referring to my Payton. He was being Put-To-Sleep because he bit the owners son in the face. It's a rather long story but my 9 year old Granddaughter hugs Payton now. He was covered in Hot Spots when I rescued him. He was literally chewing himself to death. He and Jordan are BEST Friends and always together.


We had a similar story with Cosmo, too. Cosmo was supposed to be put to sleep in Houston last November. He had apparently bit his owner (though they said it was during rough play) and his owners had kept him locked in a laundry room for six months because he shed to much...

Most people know the story here, but I said if I lived closer to Houston, I'd take him... Only half serious, since I don't live anywhere close to Houston. Next thing I know, the forum had raised the money to fly him up to us...and now we've got a GREAT dog...


----------



## JPD (Feb 26, 2007)

You're a GOOD MAN...Mr. Gibbs


----------



## 3 goldens (Sep 30, 2005)

I read that story and also advised her to make sure there was no medical reason for him to act like that. I sure hope things get worked out.


----------



## Taz Monkey (Feb 25, 2007)

I have to say I don't quite agree with ACC about the fact that there are non biting dogs in shelters who need homes. While that is all true, lets say Taz went after me tomorrow. I'm sorry, but there is no way I would give up on her just like that. She is my dog who already has a home, and I have a lot of emotional investment in her. A dog deserves another chance.


----------



## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Whether or not you'd give up your dog for biting doesn't change the fact the shelters are full of dogs that don't bite... 

I wouldn't give up my dog if he randomly bit me tomorrow... I'd certainly research it- but I have no problems with any of my dogs- so it'd really be out of the blue. I would definitely be thinking there was a medical reason if it was one of mine suddenly.

However, that said, if I knew I had a dog with a behavioral issue that I thought was a physical danger to another animal or human in my household, that dog would not be here.


----------



## Chaucer and Mom (Feb 26, 2007)

Has anyone heard anything about Joil and Tristan? She hasn't posted on CG or here since the beginning of May as far as I can tell.


----------



## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

I have been looking out for her, too. I hope that is a good sign.


----------



## Taz Monkey (Feb 25, 2007)

ACC I agree with that. I have 2 dogs who, if they bit me, it would be totally out of the blue. One, my greyhound mix, while I do not believe she would ever bite me, personally, I would not put it past her to bite someone else. She was a rescue and we have no idea what she went through before she came to us. She does not like strangers, plain and simple. BUT, she loves us, unconditionally, so I take the proper steps to make sure she does not bite someone else. She is restrained if someone new comes in the house, and they must win her affection. Usually, it takes about 10 minutes a few treats and she is won over. I also don't have kids, nor do I plan to, so I am not worried about her reaction to kids. And because of her being so unpredictable, she stays at home, unless we go to the vet or the groomer. She has the same groomer every time, because Sage trusts her.


----------



## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

That is the responsible way to handle her. Now, I know that's a 100% different situation to Tristan's- so this is no slam on them at all! But if only everyone was as careful with a dog that is known to be wary of strangers, a lot fewer dogs would end up in shelters or worse.


----------



## Chaucer and Mom (Feb 26, 2007)

I don't know if I posted this before, but there is a wonderful listserv for people with aggressive dogs. (My daughter's springer is aggressive.) There are lots of smart people there who live with aggressive dogs.

This is the link to the group.k9aggression-support : k9aggression support

I hope Joli and Tristan are safe. As I remember, a long time ago Joli's husband was having trouble with Tristan's puppy crazies. So I hope they didn't give up.


----------

