# Whiskey Creek Goldens in OR?



## birdy (Feb 13, 2015)

Does anyone have personal experiences buying from this breeder? I read the old thread on this forum that was questioning her practices, but it seems to have been resolved.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

I know Christa's dogs in the show ring and obedience ring. Christa breeds very sweet gentle dogs that do extremely well in the obedience ring and show nicely in the breed ring. I would definitely consider a puppy from Christa. Check health clearances on the parents of course. Who are the parents of the litter? Just curious if I've seen them in the ring. I used to train with one of her puppies. She was handled by a 15 year old high school kid. She put a CD on that puppy before she was a year old. That's pretty good breeding in my book.


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## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

I've met a few dogs she's bred at our local dog park. Very sweet dogs, but I can't say much more than that. Just make sure the parents have their clearances.


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

I know her. That thread was ridiculously unfair to her. She's a very conscientious breeder. I know she had 3 litters with cataracts a while back, which she attributes to sodium selenite in food, but that's something I would ask her about. I don't think it has happened since she changed food.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

I have met Christa a few times at shows and she is very nice. I recall the prior thread but don't remember what it was about. I do remember thinking it seemed over the top at the time. As with any breeder (I would even say this about myself!) make sure all clearances are in order.


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## jnjmc (Mar 31, 2015)

I have been lurking on these forums and thought I'd make an account just to reply to this thread. I put a deposit down for one of her puppies out of Shelby and Toga. It's really early in the process (due date is tomorrow) so I don't have much to say about my experience so far. I'd be interested in other people's experiences too. She did send me a puppy questionnaire after I inquired about her waiting list and I took that as a good sign. Parents seem to have all their clearances too.

Sire: http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=381518

Dam: http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=410292

Thoughts?


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

I didn't see the thread you mentioned. I just know her and her dogs from conformation and obedience shows. She has the whole golden temperament breeding thing figured out. Good for her! Not all breeders have that part figured out.

Christa flies up for most of our shows. Without Christa and Florence Josephs flying dogs up, we would have a very difficult time having any shows that count as majors. We thank them at every show for helping make our majors.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

Alaska7133 said:


> I didn't see the thread you mentioned. I just know her and her dogs from conformation and obedience shows. She has the whole golden temperament breeding thing figured out. Good for her! Not all breeders have that part figured out.
> 
> Christa flies up for most of our shows. Without Christa and Florence Josephs flying dogs up, we would have a very difficult time having any shows that count as majors. We thank them at every show for helping make our majors.


If memory serves it was about not sending in either heart or eye clearances, which as many of us know, is very common. I remember it being a "piling-on" marathon.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

HA, I'm glad I missed it!


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

goldenjackpuppy said:


> If memory serves it was about not sending in either heart or eye clearances, which as many of us know, is very common. I remember it being a "piling-on" marathon.


There was actually a follow-up thread where, sometime later, she showed how she was doing everything right and asked that the old thread be taken down because it was harming her reputation (apparently it was the first thing that came up on a google search). That second thread turned into another pile-on. Really soured me on some of the people here; and one who is gone, thankfully.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

DanaRuns said:


> I know her. That thread was ridiculously unfair to her. She's a very conscientious breeder. I know she had 3 litters with cataracts a while back, which she attributes to sodium selenite in food, but that's something I would ask her about. I don't think it has happened since she changed food.


I really hate to say this, but when I saw the discussion on the cataracts and blaming something (that's a very common ingredient in dog food and dog treats and would probably cause an epidemic of cataracts if so) - I immediately thought about that thread. 

I'm not saying this is what Christa was doing, but there are other people out there who will not send in eye/heart paperwork if there are breeding options listed. I believe the general thought is that they would prefer to show the paperwork in person and discuss what the various options mean. 

You know that in the past people have posted queries publically about certain litters and implying the breeders were less than responsible because they were breeding dogs with cataracts or iris cysts or whatnot.


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## birdy (Feb 13, 2015)

jnjmc said:


> I have been lurking on these forums and thought I'd make an account just to reply to this thread. I put a deposit down for one of her puppies out of Shelby and Toga. It's really early in the process (due date is tomorrow) so I don't have much to say about my experience so far. I'd be interested in other people's experiences too. She did send me a puppy questionnaire after I inquired about her waiting list and I took that as a good sign. Parents seem to have all their clearances too.
> 
> Sire: Pedigree: UCI Int''l BACH UKC GRCH Shyan's It's Not A Party Without Me CGC
> 
> ...


I sent her an email and have not received a response. Did you call or email?


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## birdy (Feb 13, 2015)

Megora said:


> I really hate to say this, but when I saw the discussion on the cataracts and blaming something (that's a very common ingredient in dog food and dog treats and would probably cause an epidemic of cataracts if so) - I immediately thought about that thread.
> 
> I'm not saying this is what Christa was doing, but there are other people out there who will not send in eye/heart paperwork if there are breeding options listed. I believe the general thought is that they would prefer to show the paperwork in person and discuss what the various options mean.
> 
> You know that in the past people have posted queries publically about certain litters and implying the breeders were less than responsible because they were breeding dogs with cataracts or iris cysts or whatnot.


Is there a link to that thread? I can't seem to find it.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

I just found it but I'm mobile and can't link. I read through it and was reminded why I thought the way I did. I agree with Dana, whiskey creek was treated unfairly by many in that thread. I wouldn't judge her ethics by that thread at all. It was a mess and should never have gone that far.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Mid week is better to get ahold of a breeder. Usually they are showing on the weekend and traveling home in Mondays. Phone call to her will help. It's hard to get back to everyone as quickly as you would like.


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## whiskey creek goldens (Jul 12, 2010)

Thank you to all that have chimed in support of me. The last thread was over the top for sure!!. Shelby had 9 beautiful puppies 5 boys all spoken for and 4 girls all but one spoken for. Both Toga and Shelby are up to date on all clearances having had their eyes done in December. Toga has a punctate cataract as we all know this us an un-hereditary cataract. 

I am an open book as most of you know!! I have not been quiet about the issue with cataracts that I had a couple of years ago. In which I had 6 litter over a two year period with puppies as young as 8 weeks having cataracts. I will say that many a breeders would sweep it under the rug. Not me!! I was determined to find answers and I did. They where caused by one ingredient in the food I was feeding. Since I went back the the food I was feeding before all the cataract I have not had one cataract. 

Anyway just wanted to say thank you!!


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## whiskey creek goldens (Jul 12, 2010)

birdy said:


> Is there a link to that thread? I can't seem to find it.


Please see post below


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## whiskey creek goldens (Jul 12, 2010)

Megora said:


> I really hate to say this, but when I saw the discussion on the cataracts and blaming something (that's a very common ingredient in dog food and dog treats and would probably cause an epidemic of cataracts if so) - I immediately thought about that thread.
> 
> I'm not saying this is what Christa was doing, but there are other people out there who will not send in eye/heart paperwork if there are breeding options listed. I believe the general thought is that they would prefer to show the paperwork in person and discuss what the various options mean.
> 
> You know that in the past people have posted queries publically about certain litters and implying the breeders were less than responsible because they were breeding dogs with cataracts or iris cysts or whatnot.



While Sodium Selenite is very common in dogs foods. It is the amount that is in the food that is the problem. 

I find it very very interesting that the food I was feeding while I was having the problem with cataracts listed the Sodium Selenite about mid way through the ingredients list. while feeding that food about 75% of my puppies where having cataracts.

Now that I have switched to a food that list the sodium selenite as the last ingredient I have not had one cataract. To date I have tested about 7 litter in past two years and or since making my discovery. I am not the only breeder to have this problem with food that have high amounts of sodium selenite in them. 

The only reason I was able to figure out the problem is my willingness to put it all out there and other breeders coming forward with the same problem. We have since contacted the manufacturers of the food and they are changing there formulas. I also have the backing of two board certified ophthalmologists that I have been working with since this whole thing started. 


Here is just one study done on rat pups in which they where given sodium selenite to rat pups. Please read this study.

The effect of resveratrol in experimental cataract model formed by sodium selenite. - PubMed - NCBI


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

@Christa - it may be so about the cataracts and specific food (I don't remember which food you were feeding, other than the quick "making sure it's not mine" check at the time). But I think my issue or what I had a very tough time wrapping my head around was the fact that the food was a fairly popular food that a lot of breeders use. At least what I noted at the time. And not every litter out there is having such a drastic reaction. 75% is what I would consider drastic. So there has to be more than just one factor causing the cataracts. It can't be just the food otherwise that dog food producer would be in a heap of big trouble! That's all that was going through my brain when I was following that thread (I admittedly have not paid recent attention to any developments). 

Other thing to clarify - I'm glad you came here to post on this forum you hate and basically put your side in there, because I'll be honest it would be concerning to go from seeing somebody pointing out that you do not forward eye clearances to OFA... and then see a fairly public conversation between you and other breeders about cataracts in more than a few litters. And note - please, I was not the first person on this thread to allude to that. I would not have mentioned it otherwise. 

My post up above was an attempt to neutrally point out that whatever the real story was behind the scenes, the appearances were not that favorable. 
So making this completely neutral and assuming we're talking about anyone, not somebody who has support from breeders who know them and can vouch for them - you would and should have anyone asking why there aren't clearances listed on OFA. That was my impression back with that old thread - and as I remember at the time, I didn't really follow the conversation that much beyond a "whatever, just mail them in" mental response.


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## whiskey creek goldens (Jul 12, 2010)

As stated on the facebook forum about the cataracts. I am not the only breeder having the problem. There are a lot more then will admit it in public. 

As they do not want the public to find out about the issue as it scares prospective buyers off. I for one do not care if it scares a prospective buyer off for the most part prospective buyer like my candidness and truthfulness about them. I have often said I would rather be talked about for being truthful then being untruthful. 

With that said, I would have never known I had a problem with cataracts in my puppies. If it was not for the first puppy having them in both eyes. leading to deficits in his tracking behavior. 

The only reason I found out that I had them in more then one puppy was I decided to take all of my puppies in to the eye Dr. How many breeder do eye examination on 8 week old goldens?? I think I am the only one. Who's to say how many breeders are having the problem and just don't know it?? You can't see them without dilating the eyes. 

If a puppy only has them in one eye they function normally. Fortunately I only had two puppies out of 6 litters with cataracts in both eyes leading to a deficits in their vision that was notable. The good news is that the cataracts do not grow with the eyes and the eye sight improves as the puppies eyes grow. 

Another interesting fact is that by age one they look exactly like the Juvenal triangular cataracts except they are located in the nucleus and not the anterior cortex. 

I have repeated all most all of the original 6 litters that had the cataract. Guess what not one cataract to be found. The only thing that changed was the food I was feeding. I only fed the food with to much SS in it for two years. Before the food change I had never had a cataract not even a juvi... During the food change 75% of my puppies had cataracts... Switched back to the original food No more cataracts. If it looks like a duck it's a duck.

Do you remember several years ago how Milk re-placer was causing cataracts?? A lot of people poo pooed that too.


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## Dancer (Apr 5, 2010)

To be honest, if anything this thread and Whiskey Creek's reasonable tone and educational responses have made me think I need to look into them further as a potential addition to the list I keep for myself of potential breeders. 

I was unhappy with my own experience with the breeder of my own dogs, but so many people who admire their beauty and temperament ask me where I got them. Instead of telling them, I offer to text them a copy of my 'dream breeder' list, composed of breeders who I have researched and would consider getting a pup from when it's that time again. Whiskey Creek's honesty and willingness to confront a regrettable issue head-on is rare and commendable, and it's what I want to see in my next breeder. 

None of us can demand that a breeder be perfect, but I personally require anyone creating life to desire and strive for perfection. Part of 'striving for perfection ' is being honest and owning up if you fall short. Another part of it is being just as honest about the things you're doing to change and improve. Looks to me that this is what's happening and although I missed the thread that reportedly shredded this breeder, I'm sorry they've gone through that. It doesn't look like Whiskey Creek deserved that kind of treatment.


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## whiskey creek goldens (Jul 12, 2010)

Wow Thank you Dancer for your kind words.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Christa are you coming up for our specialty in June? We will have a lot of young dogs/bitches this year, so it should be fun in sweeps. I heard through the grapevine that Tonya isn't coming up but Florence is. Hope to see Jackie M. with her bitch you bred that only needs 1 pt, it would be nice to see her finish. Vikki M. bitch is looking really good. And there are some very nice local boys. Janice's boy took BOS against his mother's BOB. Should be a fun show. Hope to see you there! We are crossing our fingers for good weather.


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## Tennyson (Mar 26, 2011)

whiskey creek goldens said:


> Wow Thank you Dancer for your kind words.


 I really like your kennel name.
And yeah, I would get a puppy from you.


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## whiskey creek goldens (Jul 12, 2010)

Alaska 7133,

I am thinking of coming bringing Mia hoping to get that last 1/2 point for her SDHF. I am also thinking of bringing Cruz and Georgia her kids out of her first litter. Georgia was up there in January and took the 3 point major on Saturday. Though I might bring Gabbie and Scoop they are her kids out of her second litter.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

I finally put 2 points on Lucy at the March Sunday show. She took WB. Finally. Hope the weather is good for you all in Fairbanks. I'm headed with Cody to his mountain bikes races on the Denali Hwy. Maybe we'll see you at the June specialty.


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## whiskey creek goldens (Jul 12, 2010)

Not going to Fairbanks going the the GR regional in Spokane. I hear Tanya is going though.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

I heard Tonya is coming up for May but not June specialty. Florence will be at Western regional with you and she will be up here for our specialty too. I think it will be a nice show! Looking forward to seeing you. We are thinking about having a pot luck, are you interested? Sometimes we just go out for dinner too.


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## whiskey creek goldens (Jul 12, 2010)

Pot luck sounds great but dinner out is always good too!! I think I know who you are but want to make sure. You have the very pretty girl that had a bit of snow nose in January right??


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Can't you see her snow nose in the photo in my signature? It will darken with the sunlight in a month or so. At least that's what I hope. When you were up Danette and John finished their bitch and Florence finished a dog that weekend. It was a good weekend for several people.


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## whiskey creek goldens (Jul 12, 2010)

UP DATE**** This is for those who have been following my journey and or story of my 8 weeks old puppies with cataracts. 

Last night I took my current litter of 8 puppies to see Dr. Sarah Maxwell. For those who do not know her she is a trusted board certified ophthalmology. She is one of the vets that has seen ALL of my puppies for the past almost 4 years.

As some of you know in early 2012 I had three litters of puppies diagnosed with cataracts at 8 weeks of age. The following year another three litters with cataracts. Long story short with the help of another breeder that has the same cataracts we where able to determine that it was more then likely food related. We where able to narrowed it down even further to one ingredient in the food. That ingredient is Sodium Selenite Please Please only feed foods that has it listed as the last 3 ingredients for the health of you puppies eyes.

Now for the great news!! I am so very happy to report that the litter did NOT have cataracts. This was the only 100% repeat litter that I was able to do. Due to fact that I spayed and/or placed most of the dogs involved with the first litters with the cataracts in an attempt to stop the cataracts. 

The first litter was a litter of 5 three with cataracts. This litter was 8 zero cataracts.
I have been able to do litter mates bitches bred to the same dog. Also no cataracts. Dr Maxwell and I have been in contact with the food manufacture in hopes that they will change there formulation.

The only thing I changed over the past 4 years has been the food I was feeding my girls.


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

Good news! I'm glad to hear that you seem to have found and solved the problem.  I can imagine how heart-breaking it was to get those cataracts, and in more than one litter. I'm also glad you went public with your findings. And I respect you for being willing to take the heat that one inevitably gets when they expose any weakness to the sharks out there.

You are a good and ethical breeder.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Thank you for sharing your story on FB. Hopefully your story will save other breeders from heartache.


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## Christen113 (Dec 3, 2014)

Good news! Was the food Kirkland's by chance? I had read that their sodium selenite levels were too high somewhere. Happy to hear it all worked out with this litter!


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## whiskey creek goldens (Jul 12, 2010)

Christen113 said:


> Good news! Was the food Kirkland's by chance? I had read that their sodium selenite levels were too high somewhere. Happy to hear it all worked out with this litter!


The food's involved are Krikland puppy and Natures Domain both have levels of sodium selenite that are to high. my personal recommendation is to not use foods where sodium selenite is listed above the last three ingredients or not listed at all.


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