# Video Time!



## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

Okay...so I FINALLY was able to shoot a video today of us playing...or at least attempting to. Please read the Info box that goes along with a YouTube video...it took me on the third try to finally get that! WHEW! Any suggestions are always appreciated! =] 

Here is the link:


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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvDvXlZlo9A
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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Here you go...

Why are you grabbing her scruff?


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

Oops...didn't realize the video didn't post well! Sorry!

Megora: It's actually her collar...doing motivational collar pops, I think Jodie can back me up on this one (one of Linda's techniques).


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

I should add a little not to this. I'm trying to put more of myself into these sessions to get her "up"....which means I'm not using any food. The motivational collar pops are originally taught using food, and eventually you need to wean off of them. So...towards the end she is driving for the toy..which is a good sign. Please don't think that I'm hurting her in any way. I feel that by the end of the 2 minutes she is where she was a few months ago...playing with me.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

This is mainly a bump for you, hoping those knowledgable with that kind of training will post better insight here... 


One concern I had watching the video (and keep in mind I'm not up to speed on this method of training and don't even play tug with my dog ever) - at the beginning when you have her in a sit and you are approaching her with the toy to do the motivational pops with her, she had her ears back and she looked like she was getting a correction or getting handled rough for her. Especially when you yanked her off her feet. I did see her get into the middle and when you did the spins, but that beginning part was worrisome for me.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

There are some good moments in there where she seems to be enjoying the game! You did a nice job of using your personality and energy to help get her up.

A few random thoughts:

If the goal is to get her to play -- to use play as a release and a way to build her up -- I would specifically avoid the "motivational collar pops" b/c they have the same contextual set up to other things that might not be as fun. (It looks a bit like your early dumbbell work, too.) I understand the concept of a motivational pop, and I've seen several people use them. I've also seen many dogs who tolerate them just fine, but appear, based on body language, to not find them as motivating as their handlers had hoped. The set up just looks too formal to me. [*Editing to Add:* Early on, I did the Teri Arnold motivational pop technique. I still think that in most dogs, what it does is desensitize to the leash pop correction so as not to be so flattening to the dog (creating the dogs who tolerate it well) vs. truly becoming a conditioned reinforcer. I think to reach true, conditioned reinforcer - where the dog has a clearly visible, HAPPY, conditioned emotional response, it would take far more repetitions that were systematically increased in intensity.]

I'd play with either an anticipation chase game or something using the opposition reflex where you push at her (like pushing her away), lightly at first, and see if you can build on that. For the chase game ... she sits ... you start slinking off ... "ready ... ready ... ready ... ready ... GET IT!" and you run off, encouraging her to chase you and come get the toy.

If you're trying to build play skills, I think you should be VERY careful about corrections in play. You corrected her for her slow "in place" or whatever you called your come-sit-at-heel behavior. Might not seem like much of a correction to you, but it was to her. You can see lip-licking from 1:38-1:40 -- a calming signal in dogs; she's stressed. (You also had a little avoidance at ~:28) I'm not saying to ignore slow responses, but in training, you can really only concentrate on one thing at a time, so if your goal is to build play skills, I'd concentrate on that. You can always address the issue w/o a correction that might potentially flatten the dog. I'd have either pushed her away (assuming I'd already taught that me-pushing-dog isn't viewed as bad or scary) in a sort of "woohoo! too slow! try again!" or I might have ran off ... "too slow! try again...." and maybe on the second cue offered more of a hand signal with the verbal. Also, if you aren't used to going from play directly into an obedience behavior, remember that it might take her a few sessions to get on board with the swift gear changes.

You might also want to try different variations in play. Waggle the toy around on the ground like it's a cat toy. Tease her with it and have it move around like a prey object. (Want it? Can't have it!) Sometimes let her "win" when she does grab hold and then make a big fuss like she's sooooo cool for having the toy. "What do you haaaaaave?" Even pretend like you're trying to get it back but she's too clever for you to get it. When building skills in dogs who don't play, I often let them "win" in the beginning to build confidence.

The only real thing I would change is taking out anything that looks like you're there to get her to play the game your way ... (to me, that's what the motivational collar pops are doing. It's you saying, "we're going to play the game THIS way.") I would want to find a way to get her driving to the toy on her own. 

Only other thought is maybe keep games shorter for now - before you run the risk her her tiring out, getting too hot, too bored, etc.


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

FWIW... Tracer & Liberty LOVE it when you say GOOD'GIRL....they are dancing around the house & looking out the windows looking for you!


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

I don't know about the method you are using, but my observation is that she is not a strong tugger and the collar pops are not helping the situation. I would get rid of them as Steph suggested.


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

FlyingQuizini said:


> There are some good moments in there where she seems to be enjoying the game! You did a nice job of using your personality and energy to help get her up.
> 
> A few random thoughts:
> 
> ...



Stephanie: I think you are 100% right. I think she does think of the collar pop as demotivating because of the whole 'jerk and yank' techniques that we once used, so maybe it reminds her of the past? That may seem silly to say, but it's a slight possibility.

I will DEFINITELY try that game where I slowly fade off and have her come chasing for the toy-still in a sit. I'm also on another list and people have told me to let her "win" with the toy. I think that is a great idea if I have her on a long lead where I can easily get her to come to me with the toy-wanting more. I think in Janice Gunn's DVD she does that with her young dog Raisin-letting her trot around in a circle and build her confidence as far as playing tug.

You are right-towards the end she was even play growling and getting the game. I guess I don't know how to play with a dog! :doh::doh: Someone mentioned something about a Michael Ellis video on really playing with their dog, but I'm not sure which one it is..anyone know?

If it isn't raining in an hour+, I will take her out and act silly and see what we come up with. I'll also be setting up an appointment for a thyroid test..just to make sure it isn't health issues.


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