# Trying not to freak out



## bethlehemgolden (Aug 2, 2014)

For those of you who do not know. I have been through hell in my personal life. 
I have endured the death of my twin boys in the nicu. Will not go into it and I am not looking for pity. 

So needless to say when it comes to the health of my living children, and my dog. I am very protective and all in the business to know they are 100% healthy and safe.

I am sending Kelvin to York PA with Jessica Plourde 9 She is a professional handler, and recommended by a lot of people), well I am dropping him off Tuesday and picking him up on Sunday. He will be the only golden with her during the show week.

3/16 York Kennel Club Judge Mrs. Stephanie S Hedgepath
3/17 Lancaster Kennel Club, Inc. Judge Mr. Robert L Vandiver 
3/18 York Kennel Club Judge Mr. James M Fankhauser 
3/19 Delaware County Kennel Club, Inc. Judge Mrs. Pat A Mowbray-Morgan 
3/20 Delaware County Kennel Club, Inc. Judge Ms. Patricia Ann Flanagan 

I am trying to now go crazy person on her. I want to ask questions, but at what point do you stop? 

The handler said she has other dogs. Am I allowed to ask ...

What other breeds she has with her? 
Does she have someone to help her?
Can I get an estimation of the additional hotel and incidental charges I will need to cover and pay on Sunday?
Will she take my dog for a walk? 
Will my dog be crated for virtually the entire time he is with her?

I know I get stuck on the smallest things, and If I can take care of a hurdle now rather than later I will which is why I am doing all of the medical things I possibly can now rather than later.

I don't know what is acceptable or not.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

You have every right to ask all of those questions. If she is a professional handler then it is her job to provide you with these answers. Where your rights fall short is demanding that she perform special, superfluous tasks just because you want to be a clingy stage mom  
Managing a string of dogs means that she will have a specific way of housing, controlling and providing for the dog's care. While a dog is with a handler, their two primary tasks are presenting the dog in the show ring and ensuring it's health and safety. Entertaining and loving your pet is not their primary job : that is your job  
It is SAFER for everyone if the dogs are contained in a crate or xpen for a majority of the time. As a professional she will have a routine that provides each dog with the exercise, attention and personal care it requires, and if you've hired her then you have to trust her to do this in a competent manner.


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## bethlehemgolden (Aug 2, 2014)

K9-Design said:


> Where your rights fall short is demanding that she perform special, superfluous tasks just because you want to be a clingy stage mom
> 
> As a professional she will have a routine that provides each dog with the exercise, attention and personal care it requires, and if you've hired her then you have to trust her to do this in a competent manner.



Thank you! I do feel better.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

I am the same way. Can never enjoy my vacations because always worried about the dogs. When my breeder takes Sailor to a long weekend show, I worry the whole time.

Now when I go to the shows with my breeder and all the dogs, I see how content they are and how exhausted they get after a day of showing - but I still worry.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Jess Plourde showed Mystic a few times for Karen when they had a ring conflict, and she did a very nice job. I think she will be trustworthy and safe. I wouldn't hesitate to have her show a young dog of mine. I liked her. Waiting to hear results can feel like having a bad boyfriend who calls late or never calls lol no matter how attentive the handler, and you just have to go about your day and try not to over focus on the handler and the show if you are not going to be there. They have so much to do in terms of chores and responsibilities for the dogs themselves.


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## bethlehemgolden (Aug 2, 2014)

Ljilly28 said:


> Waiting to hear results can feel like having a bad boyfriend who calls late or never calls lol


 :roflmao: OMG This is perfect!


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I have so many things like that to keep myself calm. Besides the bad boyfriend, I also think it is very helpful to watch plenty of Abby Lee's Dance Moms, especially the first season in which Maddy gets the solo over Chloe. Bc that is sometimes how it is when the handler decides whose dog to show in the group and whose dog to hand off or really any schedule conflict . Hehe. It helps me to keep a sense of humor.


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## bethlehemgolden (Aug 2, 2014)

Ljilly28 said:


> Bc that is sometimes how it is when the handler decides whose dog to show in the group and whose dog to hand off or really any schedule conflict . Hehe. It helps me to keep a sense of humor.


 Like with Mark Desrosiers in the york shows today 2 dogs in the same class American Bred. 

He is also showing a dog in the open class. And I just heard he showed the other 12 - 15 m dog. He's a real busy man.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Exactly! If one of the Am breeds were mine I would watch 6 episodes of Dance Moms and go to yoga class. Breathe. hehe.


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## bethlehemgolden (Aug 2, 2014)

Ljilly28 said:


> Exactly! If one of the Am breeds were mine I would watch 6 episodes of Dance Moms and go to yoga class. Breathe. hehe.


Today it turned out my handler needed to be in a separate ring with an Australian Shepard. Even the Helper person she brought with her was in that ring with another Australian Shepard. My handler got another handler a Cliff Steel to take my dog in the ring. A very nice person took photos of my dog and 2 videos. Kelvin was spooked in the ring at another dog that barked. O well tomorrow is another day.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

bethlehemgolden said:


> Today it turned out my handler needed to be in a separate ring with an Australian Shepard. Even the Helper person she brought with her was in that ring with another Australian Shepard. My handler got another handler a Cliff Steel to take my dog in the ring. A very nice person took photos of my dog and 2 videos. Kelvin was spooked in the ring at another dog that barked. O well tomorrow is another day.


That is very common. It is amazing how people step to the plate to help those that do not have enough hands to handle their dogs. My breeder has stepped in many times, and they have done it for her.

My daughter actually stepped in for an English Cocker Spaniel for somebody we did not know, and got BOS in the breed ring with him.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

bethlehemgolden said:


> Today it turned out my handler needed to be in a separate ring with an Australian Shepard. Even the Helper person she brought with her was in that ring with another Australian Shepard. My handler got another handler a Cliff Steel to take my dog in the ring. A very nice person took photos of my dog and 2 videos. Kelvin was spooked in the ring at another dog that barked. O well tomorrow is another day.


This is a big downside to using a pro handler although there are many upsides, especially all breed handlers. Even when Mystic was the #7 golden in the USA, he would get handed off pretty often, or he would win BOB but other breeds would have more priority in the groups. It is very hard to become a handler's top priority every show. I have been top priority every now and then like at Yankee Golden Specialty, but never always or even usually. I can think of a few golden like Freedom who really are top priority for his handler, but in that way I think owner handlers like Tonya and Beth offer their dogs the best of both worlds. When a top handler breeds & owns a top golden then that is a magic ticket. I was really thankful to have the experience of Rebecca Heinman making Mystic her priority, and seeing the results were stellar from that focus. Golden-only handlers have a big upside to them. I do think it is a quirky industry in which you hire and pay one person, but someone totally different could present the dog no matter if you approve or not. I think there should be a reduced rate if the dog is handed off, but the handlers are set up for conflicts by the schedule, and have different ways of deciding who is priority dog and communicating that( or not!) to the owners.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

How did everything go?


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## bethlehemgolden (Aug 2, 2014)

Not good, the handler strung him up and did not give him any room to move.

I was messaged on Friday that my handler did not bring him back in for reserve. (She confirmed it later and apologized) 

A golden handler said that if I wanted to give my dog a real shot in the ring. To be handled how a golden needs to be handled, I should find a golden handler and stick with them. She then gave me her card.

I messaged my handler Saturday night to give my dog more lead for Sunday's show, to keep him from bouncing, and she did not. 

In the end $60.00 for 6 days of boarding
$425 for 5 shows
$80 for incidentals.

I do not think I will EVER get a "professional" handler.


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## Christen113 (Dec 3, 2014)

bethlehemgolden said:


> Not good, the handler strung him up and did not give him any room to move.
> 
> I was messaged on Friday that my handler did not bring him back in for reserve. (She confirmed it later and apologized)
> 
> ...



That seems "cheap" compared to what I paid for one weekend at a local show. He was boarded one night for $16, groomed for $50 (have to say he looked fantastic), $100 for handling each day and then another $95 in expenses....so $380 for 2 shows over one weekend. He took RWD and 1st in his class but certainly gets expensive fast. One advantage of using a handler that has a lot of dogs is that the expenses get cut down but then you deal with assistants....and considering I've beaten several assistants in just a few times handling and with very little experience, I'm totally unwilling to pay that kind of money only to have him passed off to someone else unless they're truly incredible.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

It doesn't help, but talking with a friend about something I saw in the grooming area as far as a very well known golden breeder/handler handling a client's golden fairly rough (the dog didn't want to jump up on the table, the handler grabbed the dog by the ruff and dragged him up to the table and then grabbed his butt to shove him the rest of the way). Took maybe only a second or two, but the dog was cowering a little on the table after being handled that way... 

My friend commented that there's more than a few pro handlers who she would not entrust her dogs to - but even she was stunned to hear about what I saw. Heck, I was stunned. This lady is too busy to spend too much individual attention time with the dogs. She may have 5-6 dogs at a show and she moving them around like an assembly line, but the rough handling was something I didn't expect to see.

I guess my point is be very careful about who you hire. Really make sure that other people are happy with how they handle the dogs - and not just in the ring.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

bethlehemgolden said:


> Not good, the handler strung him up and did not give him any room to move.
> 
> I was messaged on Friday that my handler did not bring him back in for reserve. (She confirmed it later and apologized)
> 
> ...


I am so sorry to hear this. I always wondered what people are spending, I know it is adding up really fast being an owner / handler. 

I do know we were at one show, and a big handler needed an extra hand and asked my friend to handle one of the dogs she was handling. Luckily for my friend, the dog did place, but I kind of felt bad for the person that owned the dog, paying to have the dog handled by an amateur. 

Have you considered a Junior Handler? My daughter has started to handle for different people that need an extra hand ( for free, they are not allowed to be paid to handle ). My breeder also as a favor will handle a dog of friends of hers or students at her school if the schedule permits, especially if somebody made it to group and is not confident enough to do it themselves.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

bethlehemgolden said:


> Not good, the handler strung him up and did not give him any room to move.
> 
> I was messaged on Friday that my handler did not bring him back in for reserve. (She confirmed it later and apologized)
> 
> ...


I really recommend my handler Karen Mammano. She has a light inside her for dogs, and gentle hands on the lead. She grew up with her mom breeding golden.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Christen113 said:


> That seems "cheap" compared to what I paid for one weekend at a local show. He was boarded one night for $16, groomed for $50 (have to say he looked fantastic), $100 for handling each day and then another $95 in expenses....so $380 for 2 shows over one weekend. He took RWD and 1st in his class but certainly gets expensive fast. One advantage of using a handler that has a lot of dogs is that the expenses get cut down but then you deal with assistants....and considering I've beaten several assistants in just a few times handling and with very little experience, I'm totally unwilling to pay that kind of money only to have him passed off to someone else unless they're truly incredible.


I love this post bc that is what it comes down too sometimes! Your magic handler hands the dog to the very unmusical assistant, but you have to pay the same rate. In this way, it is the whole industry that isn't all that fair to the owners. On the other hand , the schedule comes out so late, there are ring conflicts, so the Famous Magic Handler cant be in 3 places at once. I do think if the handler doesn't show the dog, then it should be charged at a different rate. There re definite advantages to being a skillful owner handler.


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## bethlehemgolden (Aug 2, 2014)

"if" I do it again I'll go with Karen Mammano.


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## Christen113 (Dec 3, 2014)

cubbysan said:


> I am so sorry to hear this. I always wondered what people are spending, I know it is adding up really fast being an owner / handler.
> 
> I do know we were at one show, and a big handler needed an extra hand and asked my friend to handle one of the dogs she was handling. Luckily for my friend, the dog did place, but I kind of felt bad for the person that owned the dog, paying to have the dog handled by an amateur.
> 
> Have you considered a Junior Handler? My daughter has started to handle for different people that need an extra hand ( for free, they are not allowed to be paid to handle ). My breeder also as a favor will handle a dog of friends of hers or students at her school if the schedule permits, especially if somebody made it to group and is not confident enough to do it themselves.




I agree on the juniors, I just don't know any or know how to find one. I was at one show watching goldens and there was one junior in a junior competition handling a gorgeous golden and doing a phenomenal job! She was more attentive and better than many pros and was probably about 15.


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## Christen113 (Dec 3, 2014)

Ljilly28 said:


> I love this post bc that is what it comes down too sometimes! Your magic handler hands the dog to the very unmusical assistant, but you have to pay the same rate. In this way, it is the whole industry that isn't all that fair to the owners. On the other hand , the schedule comes out so late, there are ring conflicts, so the Famous Magic Handler cant be in 3 places at once. I do think if the handler doesn't show the dog, then it should be charged at a different rate. There re definite advantages to being a skillful owner handler.


 My first show ever (and I barely pulled it together before the show-thank God for the one last lesson I took where the instructor took the time to literally explain everything from scratch) was one in which I beat a major pro's assistant with Cooper. That dog that we beat (for the first blue ribbon ever which may have well been a BOB at Westminster because I was so elated) went on to be the RWD twice over 81 goldens the next few days. Granted, they didn't put an assistant on the dog again but I decided then and there that unless a handler could assure me that they'd be on Cooper, I was simply going to show him myself. I'm not sure if it always works but I've entered him each time and then found a handler that was available once the schedule came out (once ringside, once the RWD weekend) to ensure that they'd be the one showing him. My breeder contacted a handler, was extraordinarily clear that she was paying her and did NOT want the assistants, and sure enough, she ended up with a conflict and was going to put an assistant on her dog for at least some of the shows...she ended up finding a new handler. It is really frustrating. I wouldn't mind in certain situations (if the assistants are outstanding-and it is true that the phenomenal handlers largely start out as assistants) but I still feel like the primary reason I am paying a handler is for the power that they bring and the assistants don't bring that same power. I feel like this hand off (for the same rate) is why it often takes so long for a dog to finish and why it becomes so expensive. 

Definitely check with breeders and knowledgeable folks about the handlers. I know of a few in our area that don't treat the dogs well, will show dogs with kennel cough, are rough with them, fundamentally dishonest, etc. but win all the time so you might think they're a good choice.

In the meantime, I'm plugging away mostly showing him myself in the local shows for practice. I wish goldens weren't so dominated by pros. I've done really well against other owner handlers and a few people in my class have asked me to show their dogs (which I've declined-ha!) but I certainly don't compare to the pros at this point. I don't think that the judges are necessarily even picking handlers in most cases, I think it just takes time to really develop the technique to truly showcase your dog as well as they do.


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