# What's the Point?



## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

I've never shown a dog in any venue, so I can only comment based on my customers comments that have show in the international shows. They generally use them for practice, but they also love that they get a written critique on their dogs. At least that's what was done at the shows they were entered in, not sure if every international show offers that, but I've heard that it's standard practice.


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

Ive only shown once in UKC. I don't think conformation is my thing. I know AKC is super competitive. Don't know anything about international


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Goldens&Friesians said:


> So there are AKC CH, UKC CH, and International CH. I know AKC is the most difficult and competitive and therefore most impressive achievement of the 3. I understand that a lot of people use UKC to either practice with a puppy or practice their own handling skills before going on to AKC; also that it is competitive and the dog has made some sort of achievement gaining a UKC CH title. But what is the point of International shows? It seems like they are mainly a pay for title so that irresponsible breeders can brag that they have "champion" dogs. Is there a deeper purpose? Just curious, so I thought I'd turn to the experts on here!


You've pretty much got it. 
Yes, Int shows do give critiques but they are not specific- say things like, 'good topline' or 'bad rear' without saying what's good or bad about it. If a person wants a true critique, a CCA event is the place to go. 3 evaluators, at least two of whom are AKC judges (and typically, are also Golden breeders) go over the dog in 10 parts and rate them with specificity.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

You are right that those who just show at the international shows are looking to pay for a title. They are happy with the their written critiques generally because they are generally positive and short. Even when a dog has a serious issue with a judged section, I have never seen a really 'critical' critique. If a dog had a bad rear, I would expect to see something like, "hocks could be more parralel, nice tight feet." They are from what I have seen very 'glossy' critiques and generally the people who only show here would not understand that that critique means their dog is cow hocked. Compared to the value of the CCA written form, there is no comparison. But, the CCA does not come with a "champion" title. 

There's times I have seen a judge be verbally critical and withhold a V-1 rating (needed the the International title) the exhibitors have been livid. This situation was rare but the judge is a highly respected AKC sporting group judge. He told a Golden exhibitor exactly why he gave a lessor rating and told this person not to breed their two dogs together because they share a remarkable number of the same breed faults. The person's response was not to give serious consideration to this judges input but to point to every other International judge who just 'loved' their dogs and discredit the very valuable information that was shared.

They don't really care to hear an honest evaluation, they just want to get their title and go home. 

Some people with also say they prefer the 'European' style shows. I don't really agree that it is European style. In Europe they only award one CAC for girls and one CAC for boys. That means only 2 dogs in the entry will get a win to count toward the title. The U.S. Based international title lets every entry get the 'orange card' that counts toward the title. I wish they would change it to be identical to European shows but the pay for title crowd would abandon them and these small business would fold.

There are also people like me who go there to practice and hope to compete at the group of best in show level. I probably will never be competitive ate tha level in AKC but international and UKC I am. Also once you get to the best in show level the quality of dogs is generally must better as for rare breeds international shows maybe to the only show venue available and it is common to see high quality rare breeds at thes shows. 

So, I am always disappointed when people choose to stay soley in these shows. To me that shows me they only care to pay for a title and are not really interested in proving their dog in real competition.


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## Wolfeye (Sep 15, 2015)

All I know is that when I watch dog shows live or in person, the dog *I* think is best always comes in last. Same as my results picking racehorses.

But cheaper.


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## GoldenDude (Nov 5, 2016)

As someone who simply owns Goldens for the companionship and to do more game type activities such as flyball, dock diving, SDS nose work (attending our first competition in May - keep your fingers crossed), I'd honestly rather see a CGCA title than an International CH. 

At least with the CGCA, I know the owner is actively doing something with the dogs. Plus, it tells me that while the dam and sire may or may not be Rhodes scholars, they are capable of learning the skills (sit, down, stay, recall, accept a friendly stranger, etc.) that make a solid pet and one you can comfortably take around other people. 

Three of my dogs have their CGC and one of those has her CGCA. My fourth dog has her CGC test in a couple of weeks and my fifth has his test in May. One of the ones with his CGC will be taking a CGCA course soon and my one with her CGCA is taking an Urban CGC class next month. I'm definitely not a skilled trainer and, honestly, I wouldn't even say I'm a novice level trainer. So, if I can work with my dogs to the point that they can pass these tests then I would expect someone skilled in dogs, like a breeder, should be able to do this. Thus, a CGCA or even a RN would mean more to me than an International CH.


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## GoldenDude (Nov 5, 2016)

Wolfeye said:


> All I know is that when I watch dog shows live or in person, the dog *I* think is best always comes in last. Same as my results picking racehorses.
> 
> But cheaper.


This made me laugh. I'm this way except with those HGTV shows where the couple is buying a house and they show the audience 3 of their choices. I NEVER pick the one the couple ends up buying.


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## Goldens&Friesians (May 31, 2014)

Thank you for the replies! I was just curious because I would love to get into conformation showing someday (not now though cause I have an 8 month old human baby!) The dog in my signature picture, April, I was going to show in conformation, but I was ignorant at the time and didn't realize I should've been showing her in puppy classes. I showed her in obedience from age 1 to 2 and got her CD, then did all her OFA testing after that, then I was going to show her, but she got pyometra at age 2 and I had to spay her.  So no conformation for her now. She is now almost 6 and I have yet to find a CGC tester close by who will respond to emails or calls(don't want to travel far with an 8 month old any way!) But I agree with you GoldenDude, I love to see CGC or CD or something that proves trainability. I also want correct structure though cause I like how it looks; and, more importantly, they usually get around better as they age.


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