# Hermangisarcoma and spaying



## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

I am not sure where to start so I will just give the entire story. In January we lost our golden at nine to hermangisarcoma. We know have a eight week old golden puppy. We are not going to breed show eft. She will be a family pet. Of course we want to do everything we can to lesson the chance of her getting it. This is where the conflict comes in. She will be spayed. Most probably at six months. I have read all the articles here posted about the neutering and spayed and increase in cancer. We do not want to deal with her coming into heat. Opinions would be helpful. Thanks.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

There are no easy answers. Only you can decide.

If you truly do not want to have your girl go into season, have her spayed.

If you want to lessen the risk of early spaying causing cancer as well as other risks (obesity & urinary incontinence come to mind), leave her intact. 

You need to weigh the risks and benefits and decide which path is better for you. 

BTW: the spay surgery itself is not without risk.


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## Rainheart (Nov 28, 2010)

There is also no 100% concrete evidence saying that spaying will lessen the chance of hemangio. Yes, there have been a few reports. But I wouldn't base your decision on that completely. I believe there are so many other factors, plus genetics that play more of a role...
That being said, I do believe in waiting to prolong spaying and neutering if possible. This is not an option for every owner, however.


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## Susan: w/ Summit we climb (Jun 12, 2014)

I'm very sorry about the loss of your previous Golden. Nine years is so much too soon to have to say goodbye to someone so wonderful.

Since you do not want to deal with your new puppy coming into heat, early spay does seem to be the safest course of action. 

Early spay will seriously affect the growth of her bones and the function of her joints, so you should do as much research as you can on how you can protect her joints and minimize the problems. At a minimum, I would be giving her a good glucosamine chondroitin supplement every day, starting now.

I wish you luck and happiness with your new girl!


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## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

I can tell you that we have had two female Goldens, both of whom were spayed at about 6 to 7 months, before their first heat. Both lived long, healthy lives, until about 14 years of age, with zero health issues. Neither were given any supplements, and were fed dry dog food.


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## Wenderwoman (Jan 7, 2013)

Based on my research, the studies did not have a large enough pool of dogs nor did they address genetics. Still the margins for any cancers were like 10%, meaning, 90% of the dogs didn't develop cancer. And, early spay was better for one type of cancer but later spay was better for another. So, in my opinion there just isn't enough testing AT ALL at this point. There are merely some suggestions that don't account for nutrition, genetics or physical activity of the animals.

Frankly, if there was any connection to be made about spaying/neutering, it seemed to me it was related to the males.

I decided to spay at 6 months. I purchased pet insurance. I kept her weight down for the first two years and watched her level of activity. I give her healthy food and supplements.

There are PLENTY of dogs that have been spayed and lived long and healthy lives. 

Just keep in mind if you read that it *may* increase the risk 10%, that means that 90% are perfectly healthy. I don't know about you but it would have to be the reverse (saying that 90% get cancer and only 10% remain healthy) for me to get all panicked. Even 50/50 might be better but that's a relatively low number especially if the pool is less than, say, 200 dogs. Then it's only 20 dogs with cancer and 180 without. That's why the number of dogs studied matters. Just read those studies carefully.


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## Christen113 (Dec 3, 2014)

I lost my golden to hemangio at 9.5 and it's a terrible, devastating disease. It's up to you but most breeders and vets now recommend that you spay between 18-24 months, especially in goldens. When you spay before the first heat cycle and when they are young, it throws off the hormones and can lead to joint issues and "funny" looking leggy goldens. During my search, all of the breeders I spoke to insisted in their contract that you couldn't spay prior to at least 18 months. 

Here are a few articles you may have already read but just in case:

Golden retriever study suggests neutering affects dog health :: UC Davis News & Information

Health Implications of Spay and Neuter: Golden Retriever and Labrador Retriever | AKC Canine Health Foundation

PLOS ONE: Neutering Dogs: Effects on Joint Disorders and Cancers in Golden Retrievers


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## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

Thanks everyone. It is so confusing. You read that stuff and you think it is some great study. Our spca here spays and neuters at like seven weeks. Horrible and way to early. Your responses eased my mind some. I will mention the glucosamine to my mom.


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## Scezy (Jan 2, 2015)

I know what you mean it's confusing, I've got a girl who is 15weeks old and I'm thinking of getting her spayed.
So many different opinions I'm no wiser now that I was after about 3-4weeks of reading. My own vet reccomend at 6 months, vets4 pets recommend 6 months and another who have been reccomended as a very good vets said after first season.
I've had a look here, if you have time there are some videos to watch.
Pet Health Videos | Grooming, Training Videos - Mercola.com
I didn't know that there are different procedures that can be done this is some of the info I have collected in my notes,would love to her on what you have decided.
Keyhole. Laparoscopic assisted spay surgery 
Safer less invasive
Surgical trauma reduced
Lower levels o pain and discomfort
Speedier recovery
Smaller wound

Spaying
Medical terms for the removal of uterus and ovaries is ovariohysterectomy.
This is preferable to an ovariecectomy (where only the ovaries are removed) in the bitch because in the latter procedure, the uterus is left intact so pyrometers is still possible.

Myth #1 - I've heard that my pet should have a heat cycle first -- she will be a better pet.
Myth #2 - I've heard that my pet should have a litter first -- she will be a better pet. 
These are two common misconceptions about spaying. You will do so much more for the health of your pet by spaying before the first heat. It has been reported that by doing so, you will reduce the chance of mammary (breast) cancer in your pet by as much as 97% over their lifetime.



Video link for spaying 

Health Issues Linked to Spaying and Neutering Dogs
Regards. Scezy


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## Susan: w/ Summit we climb (Jun 12, 2014)

If it were my girl, I would do an ovary-sparing spay. That way, she'd be as close to normal as possible, with no risk of pyometra.


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## Gratitude14 (Jan 2, 2014)

*Opinion on when to neuter our Golden boy?*

I too would like opinions on altering my 7 1/2 old golden. After reading the UC Davis study
I was determined to keep him intact until 16-18 months. Our trainer friend is suggesting we do it now rather than later in case he has dog aggressive issues, that cannot be trained 
Out of him is they exist? The hardest part for us now is that the other dogs he encounters 
Don't like him. He's all happy ready to play & on sniff & the other dogs get all snarly.
Anybody else in this delema?


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## Jenstace (Feb 19, 2015)

About two years ago I lost my golden to hemangiosarcoma at age 13. I got another female golden a couple months later and started researching like crazy in the hope of doing whatever I could to reduce her risk of cancer. Along with diet and minimum vaccination I knew that the "spay issue" would be a large part of hopefully reducing that risk of cancer. After reading the UC Davis study and finding out that "intact" female goldens had such a reduced risk of cancer I could not bring myself to spay her. Problem was that one I signed a spay contract with the breeder and two I did not want the mess of blood every few months. Fortunately my breeder and I had already agreed that I did not have to spay her before 18 months, we both knew of the benefits for the growth plates. Well at 22 months old (January 2015) and after about 100 hours of reading I had an *Ovary- sparing spay* done on her. She got to keep her ovaries along with all the benefits that those hormones provide (which are many as you will see when you read the UC Davis study). They removed her uterus and part of her cervix so that eliminates her risk of pyometra, eliminates blood and of course her ability to get pregnant. 
The downside is that she will still go into heat cycles however there will be no blood. Males still may be attracted to her however my girl is never out of my yard off leash so that didn't bother me.
The other downside is that very few vets are trained to do this procedure. Most vets will say "oh but that increases her risk of mammary tumors". The thing is statistically goldens aren't dying of mammy cancer they are dying of other cancers like hemangiosarcoma. Also the study on mammy tumors that they will site has come under question whether it was even a reliable study.
Here is a link to a forum for *Ovary-Sparying Spay and Vasectomy information*. If you click on the resources tab you will find lots of studies. They also have a list of doctors all across the US that do these procedures.
I know how tuff this decision is - hope this helps.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/alternativealteringinfo/?pnref=lhc


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## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

Thanks. It is a very hard decision. We will probably go ahead and have it done at six or seven months. Those studies don't really take into account food or the weight of the pet.


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## Susan: w/ Summit we climb (Jun 12, 2014)

Gratitude14 said:


> I too would like opinions on altering my 7 1/2 old golden. After reading the UC Davis study
> I was determined to keep him intact until 16-18 months. Our trainer friend is suggesting we do it now rather than later in case he has dog aggressive issues, that cannot be trained
> Out of him is they exist&#55357;&#56853; The hardest part for us now is that the other dogs he encounters
> Don't like him. He's all happy ready to play & on sniff & the other dogs get all snarly.
> Anybody else in this delema?


 I wouldn't do it earlier than you really want to because other dogs get snarly. Dogs have behaved that way around my Summit at times, but it's 100% transitory. It can be caused by many factors.


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## Gratitude14 (Jan 2, 2014)

Susan: w/ Summit we climb said:


> I wouldn't do it earlier than you really want to because other dogs get snarly. Dogs have behaved that way around my Summit at times, but it's 100% transitory. It can be caused by many factors.


Thank you for your support. I talked with a vet yesterday that encouraged me to wait at least until he is a year old. If I can wait until then I think I can make it to the ideal 18 months. So many opinions about this from trainers, who often see an untrained dog because the owner waited too long for classes to the vets who are in the 30 year mode of doing it at 6 months just because. The bone plate closing ay 12 month & 18 months seem like the biggest know factor on my decision at this point. Comment much appreciated.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Most reputable breeders are now asking their puppy buyers to wait 18 months to two years.

I was on a forum today, and the discussions are now saying that early spay might help prevent mammary cancer but increases other types of cancers, while late spaying will help prevent other types of cancers might increase mammary cancer.

I have just been through the first two heats with my dog, she is now 16 months old, it was not half as bad as a expected.


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

@ Gratitude14: 
If a trainer recommends having a dog neutered early because if not, it might lead to aggression issues - get a new trainer, that one obviously does not know what he is talking about!


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## Gratitude14 (Jan 2, 2014)

I hade that same trainer thought. I just called a dog training club yesterday and asked if being unaltered would be an issue. She told me dogs with testicles are trainable & chuckled. She also said there are many reasons, besides being unaltered that dogs get snarky. From breeding to owners. Our vet mentioned training for Obedience Trials of which I kmow nothing. The main reason I went with a pure bred golden this time was to trace three generations and enroll him in the Morris Animal Foundation Golden a Retriever Lifetime Study. So I am learning about lots of things. Biggest deal for these breeds is interrupting their growth buy altering them too soon. Thank you for yor comment!


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## Susan: w/ Summit we climb (Jun 12, 2014)

cubbysan said:


> Most reputable breeders are now asking their puppy buyers to wait 18 months to two years.
> 
> I was on a forum today, and the discussions are now saying that early spay might help prevent mammary cancer but increases other types of cancers, while late spaying will help prevent other types of cancers might increase mammary cancer.
> 
> I have just been through the first two heats with my dog, she is now 16 months old, it was not half as bad as a expected.


Edited: When to spay is a difficult question. I see that it's necessary to spay at some point. My boys, on the other hand, don't have to be neutered ever, except to honor breeder contracts.

Since I've been here, I haven't seen any cases of mammary cancer mentioned on the forum. I hope that means there haven't been any.


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## paulie (Mar 23, 2015)

Thanks for this post. I lost my second Golden @ 8 this past fall and as I start to think about getting a new puppy I want to stack odds more in my favor if possible. Both my previous dogs where spayed before the first heat because I didn't know any better. I feel much like you -- just don't know.


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