# Gemma won't pee before bedtime ...



## Bellbird (Feb 22, 2019)

10 month Gemma has always been very good at sleeping all night in her crate. She goes out to the toilet at 10-10.30 before we go to bed and then sleeps until 7. Until the last couple of weeks. 

Now, at last toilet time, she wants to wander round the yard looking at the moon, having a munch of grass, or playing with one of her outside toys and has no interest in peeing. Which would be ok except then she wakes at 4 or 5 am and has to go. Her daily routine hasn't changed. She eats at the same time. She gets plenty of exercise (1 hour morning walk, 1 hour running and playing with other dogs at the dog park and another walk around 7pm).

The only thing that has changed is the weather. It's staying light longer (it's late spring here in Australia) and it's starting to get warmer so she is choosing to spend more time outside.

Any ideas?

Thanks.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Take her out on leash and tell her to potty.


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## jeffscott947 (Jun 9, 2019)

Bellbird said:


> 10 month Gemma has always been very good at sleeping all night in her crate. She goes out to the toilet at 10-10.30 before we go to bed and then sleeps until 7. Until the last couple of weeks.
> 
> Now, at last toilet time, she wants to wander round the yard looking at the moon, having a munch of grass, or playing with one of her outside toys and has no interest in peeing. Which would be ok except then she wakes at 4 or 5 am and has to go. Her daily routine hasn't changed. She eats at the same time. She gets plenty of exercise (1 hour morning walk, 1 hour running and playing with other dogs at the dog park and another walk around 7pm).
> 
> ...





Have you considered making her a "spot" where she can smell her previous doings? Leading her to the same spot, with the same pee command might do the trick.


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## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

Yup, put her on a leash so she knows it's not play time. Use a cue like "go potty" so she learns that she is out there to do her business.


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## Lincgold (May 11, 2018)

I agree completely...take her out on a leash. Tell her to pee over and over again and then, of course praise her lavishly when she does. I also would not put her immediately in her crate afterwards. I had one pup that knew this was the last time out before bed time and dragged it out. I would get in my pj’s, turn off the lights etc. and THEN put him in his crate.


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## Bellbird (Feb 22, 2019)

Thanks for replies.

The thing here is … for the last 7 months Gemma has reliably peed at around 10pm every night, on the same area of lawn, as soon as she goes out, on or off leash, in all weather conditions, without fail. Every night. That's over 200 consecutive pees+praise in the same place at the same time. I'm not trying to teach her when and where to go .. she already has that. I'm just trying to work out why she would now stop doing this.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

She has learned to browse? 

Hence - put her on leash, teach her to potty on command. It's a lifesaver.


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## jeffscott947 (Jun 9, 2019)

Bellbird said:


> Thanks for replies.
> 
> The thing here is … for the last 7 months Gemma has reliably peed at around 10pm every night, on the same area of lawn, as soon as she goes out, on or off leash, in all weather conditions, without fail. Every night. That's over 200 consecutive pees+praise in the same place at the same time. I'm not trying to teach her when and where to go .. she already has that. I'm just trying to work out why she would now stop doing this.



Habits change as pups grow up (like ours do). Sometimes they forget older habits and pick up new ones. Persistence will pay off, and she will come around. Sometimes they need a reminder of what it was that pleased their master. From my own research, Goldens live to please their masters, a built in trait. (this is my 1st Golden, and has been a challenge, but at 5 months; she has done ok.) I expect that I will also have to do a bit of reminding as times progress. When I go for the leash, instead of just opening up the slider to the yard, she knows it is not playtime. Perhaps the praise could be in addition to a high value treat too, when she pees for you?



Best of luck and you will prevail.


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## Lincgold (May 11, 2018)

jeffscott947 said:


> Habits change as pups grow up (like ours do). Sometimes they forget older habits and pick up new ones. Persistence will pay off, and she will come around. Sometimes they need a reminder of what it was that pleased their master. From my own research, Goldens live to please their masters, a built in trait. (this is my 1st Golden, and has been a challenge, but at 5 months; she has done ok.) I expect that I will also have to do a bit of reminding as times progress. When I go for the leash, instead of just opening up the slider to the yard, she knows it is not playtime. Perhaps the praise could be in addition to a high value treat too, when she pees for you?
> 
> Best of luck and you will prevail.


I agree completely. They do need reminding as they “test” their limits. Also, a treat given just before crate time when she has peed for you usually does the trick. It did for my pups. Good luck


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

Totally agree - on leash. Just take her to that area - she is not allowed to go wandering around the yard. And if you don't have a cue word or phrase, I would start working on one (use it every single time you take her out, say it as she is peeing, throw a party every time with treats). It is amazing how a simple phrase can tweak them to go. I always say (inside the house) "do you need to go out?" and then when we are out, the cue is "quick-quick!". But when we are out training or competing and I need her to pee, I use "do you need to go out?" as I take her out of the kennel, or even as she is sniffing around, along with "quick-quick!" I feel like it all just makes something click in their brains. And it is truly 99% foolproof.


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## Bellbird (Feb 22, 2019)

Thanks all for the good advice.

Back to leash and cueing it is.


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## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

Perhaps consider rewarding the "go pee" behavior with allowing her five minutes of sniff time? That may be more rewarding at that point than food that is immediately followed with being taken back inside when she clearly wants to be outside...


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

Bellbird said:


> The thing here is … for the last 7 months Gemma has reliably peed at around 10pm every night, on the same area of lawn, as soon as she goes out, on or off leash, in all weather conditions, without fail. Every night. That's over 200 consecutive pees+praise in the same place at the same time. I'm not trying to teach her when and where to go .. she already has that. I'm just trying to work out why she would now stop doing this.


You ask why. Here's my take.

Three things are going on: 

1. She's 10 months old, which is a time in puppy development when they are starting to feel their own power, and they test limits and resolve.
2. It's light later and it's warmer, and going out at that time looks much more interesting than going inside and to bed.
3. When she pees, you bring her right back inside.

At this stage of her life, she's more focused on doing what she wants to do rather than what you want her to do. This is a a time of boundary pushing. Because it's warmer and light later now, and she doesn't want to be dragged back inside as soon as she goes, dog logic dictates that if she wants to stay outside she should decline to go to pee. Peeing = going back inside. This makes perfect sense to a dog.

But the "why" doesn't matter. The solution is what everyone else is saying: take her out on a leash and give her the command to go, and then take her back inside.

Aside from this one pee challenge, this is a stage when dogs push boundaries and figure out their place in the pack. You have a larger interest beyond a full night's sleep in making sure that she doesn't learn that she can get her way by pushing these boundaries. She has to learn that even though she's feeling her oats now, she still has to adhere to the rules. While this may seem like a contest, in the end she will be happier for you enforcing these rules. Dogs thrive on boundaries, and one of the ways they comfort themselves that there are solid boundaries is by testing them. Sometimes quite vigorously. So, do what folks here are saying. It's leash and all business. No giving in.

That's my take. Your mileage may vary.


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