# To breed or not to breed



## KMerc (Jul 28, 2012)

So I have a male English golden retriever & my sister has a female goldendoodle. She wants to breed them but I'm unsure if I should breed Gus or not. Does the personality of the stud change after breeding? Now Gus is 6months & Tomorrow he has an appointment for a neuter, I scheduled it because he has been humping my leg. He still squats but I wanted to neuter him before he started marking his territory to avoid it completely. But if I decide to breed him ill post pone it. I honesty wanted to breed him because i would love another puppy, & the money i would make would help for my college expenses. I'm just so indesive with this that I would love to hear your opinions! Thank you! It means a lot!


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

Do either of these animals have all of their health clearances? If not, i would strongly advise AGAINST breeding. 

You will most likely get a lot of comments saying not to breed to a mix because it does nothing to better the breed of golden retrievers. 

Looking at the income level, after you've covered the puppy care (food, bedding, vet exams, puppy shots), you will be lucky to break even. Breeding tends to be a sinkhole of money, jmho, a lot of breeders have broken their costs down in different threads.

Overall, I want to challenge you to really look into what it takes to breed two animals ethically, and then decide. I have a feeling, you shouldn't be breeding the two dogs, but again, thats my opinion. 


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## Jen & Brew (Oct 11, 2012)

I personally think it's a horrible idea, there are all ready SO many mixed breed pups out there in shelters that need homes badly, I don't think this world has room for any more "designers"


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## painted golden (Aug 17, 2009)

*Brace yourself-*

You are about to receive a lot of info.
People here are very passionate about this breed.
Please read everything you can and think about each an every pup you may (I hope not) bring into this world.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

Re-reading your post, i see Gus is only 6 months old. He's too young imo to breed and he definitely is too young to have health clearances. Dogs must be 2 years old to get hip and elbow clearances. Those clearances are a must, because they tell you if your dogs have good/fair/bad hips and elbows. You don't want to bring life to the world if its going to suffer for the next 10-14 years, especially, knowing you could have prevented all the pain and heartbreak for those families. 


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## Jennifer1 (Mar 31, 2012)

I also say no for the above reasons.
Also, as for making money, assuming your dog has papers, goldendoodles aren't AKC registered, so they don't have papers. Basically it's no different than breeding your golden to a German Shepherd or to a Border Collie or to a Beagle. How much would you pay for a mix breed dog?


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## KMerc (Jul 28, 2012)

Well English golden doodles are designer dogs. So its not like I'd be breeding two random breeds. & yes they both have their certificates. Gus is cleared for hip dysplasia& is akc registered.


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## KMerc (Jul 28, 2012)

Wow that is a very good point. Goldendoodles aren't akc registered. But the thing I'm highly concerned about is the cons for Gus. The puppies are in good hands. I tried to research the effects breeding has on the stud but nothing came up.


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## Jennifer1 (Mar 31, 2012)

Gus's parents might be cleared for hips, but Gus is still too young. You simply can not get a hip clearance until the dog is 2 yrs old.
And, no the golden doodle does not have AKC papers. No designer dogs have AKC papers, AKC only deals with purebreds.
To many many people, it is the same as breeding 2 random breeds.
Even assuming a golden doodle was considered a pure bred, breeding a purebreed golden doodle to a purebred golden retriever results in a mixed breed dog


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## Bentleysmom (Aug 11, 2012)

KMerc said:


> Well English golden doodles are designer dogs. So its not like I'd be breeding two random breeds. & yes they both have their certificates. Gus is cleared for hip dysplasia& is akc registered.


Gus can't be cleared until he is 2 yrs old. A Golden Doodle is not a designer dog, it is a mixed breed dog. 
No to the breeding. Walk through a dog shelter. Heart breaking. I've done it hundreds of times.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Why would you want to intentionally produce mutts?


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## painted golden (Aug 17, 2009)

*hip clearances are not done until 2 years of age*

How old is Gus?- hip clearances are done at 2 years of age. No dog should be bred before.


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

Who are you kidding? Obviously, you don't know a thing about breeding dogs and clearances, which should have been obvious from your previous posts about your girl pup you got rid of and this pup that you had problems with(for all that remember).
A six months old dog does not have hip clearances or any other clearances for that matter and that he is AKC registered doesn't count for anything. 

And please don't give me the spiel about being in pre-vet again and your love for animals and bla bla bla. I am not buying it. 

I know I will get fallout for my outburst from other members, but enough is enough. Some people just don't seem to want to learn a thing.


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## vcm5 (Apr 20, 2011)

KMerc said:


> Well English golden doodles are designer dogs. So its not like I'd be breeding two random breeds. & yes they both have their certificates. Gus is cleared for hip dysplasia& is akc registered.


I don't mean to be harsh but:

a) There is no such thing as a "designer" dog, its not real - its a marketing ploy. A golden doodle is a mutt, two purebred dogs who have been bred to create a dog that is no longer a purebred. I am not down on mutts - my dog is a mutt and he is the best. But lets be series, golden doodles are mutts.

b) Hip dysplasia can't be "cleared" for until the dog is MINIMUM two years old.

c) Beyond hip dysplasia - how about elbow clearances? Eyes? Heart?

d) What about other breeding concerns: have these dogs been shown? Have they won in any venue or sport?

e) Please please please read up on the costs of raising puppies before you think that having a litter is going to be profitable for you!


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## KMerc (Jul 28, 2012)

I meant Gus's parents. My apologies. I know golden doodles are at high demand. My sister traveled to Maryland for hers. Just because they are not purebred does not mean they are not wonderful creatures. Like I said my question is if breeding will effect Gus. Because that is my biggest concern.


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## Bentleysmom (Aug 11, 2012)

This thread hurts my heart to even read. I'm just not up to hearing excuses for irresponsible breeding of mixed breed dogs. I will not be reading it further.

Please, please, please, go spend some time at a shelter. You will _maybe_ realize then why what you want to do is unforgivable to some of us.


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## Jennifer1 (Mar 31, 2012)

Also, ask your sister if she is willing to risk the life of her dog? Is she able to afford an emergency C-section if necessary?


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## KMerc (Jul 28, 2012)

Why is it that everything I come in this site & post a question I get people jumping down y throat. You are not even answering my question.


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## Bentleysmom (Aug 11, 2012)

your question WAS answered. Gus is too young. and a 1000 different reasons. Are you a troll? 

/done


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

Sorry to burst your bubble but my male was neutered before he started marking and he marks everything outside non stop. Humping, also is behavioral he still humps and hes 5 years. 

As for breeding, I would not. Will it change him? It may it depends on the dog. I am all for people keeping their dogs intact providing they do not contribute to the over population unless its being done responsibly (such as a reputable breeder does)


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## KMerc (Jul 28, 2012)

I really don't see a problem with mutts. Dogs are dogs. They all deserve love not matter what the breed is. You all are extremely judgemental.


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## Jennifer1 (Mar 31, 2012)

As to your question of is there any harm to YOUR MALE being bred.
Honestly, I don't know.
But, I'd hope that you would be concerned about the health and well being of the puppies as well as the welfare of your male.


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## KMerc (Jul 28, 2012)

I'm just repeating what my vet told me. He said if I entire Gus early enough he will not mark his territory. & he humped when he was 2 months. I understand it is a behavior.


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## Jennifer1 (Mar 31, 2012)

KMerc said:


> I really don't see a problem with mutts. Dogs are dogs. They all deserve love not matter what the breed is. You all are extremely judgemental.


I love mutts, I have a mutt!
But, I'm not going to pay purebred prices for a mutt! I can adopt one from the shelter for about $30. You want to make money, you won't do it with mutts.


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## CStrong73 (Jun 11, 2012)

Perhaps you are asking your question in the wrong place. If you have spent any time at all on this forum (and I see you have 52 posts), then you realize that the two sentences below....



KMerc said:


> I know golden doodles are at high demand. Like I said my question is if breeding will effect Gus. Because that is my biggest concern.


are enough to incite many here.

If you want different answers than you are getting here, then try asking a different group.


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## KMerc (Jul 28, 2012)

I am concerned about the puppies? As I said they will be in good hands. Of course I'm going to worry about Gus first..as the puppies aren't even created yet.


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## Capt Jack (Dec 29, 2011)

KMerc said:


> Why is it that everything I come in this site & post a question I get people jumping down y throat. You are not even answering my question.


Why don't you call your vet & ask him.Folks on here feel stongly about breeding if you aren't qualified & sorry but your not that's obvious.I beleive you knew the answers you'd get on here before you even posted here.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

KMerc said:


> I'm just repeating what my vet told me. He said if I entire Gus early enough he will not mark his territory. & he humped when he was 2 months. I understand it is a behavior.


Find a new vet pronto. My old vet told me my dog would stop humping and would never mark his territory if he was neutered before the marking started. He was way wrong. Even my female marks outside and she was fixed before she started. My female also humps her toys and my male will hump other dogs and even your leg if given the chance to.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

KMerc said:


> Why is it that everything I come in this site & post a question I get people jumping down y throat. You are not even answering my question.


Your question was "to breed or not to breed" you have received amazing advice! Unfortunately, the conclusion is "No breeding" and i don't think that is what you wanted to hear. Im sorry of you feel were jumping down your throat. We've lived through some heartbreaking stories, to sit idly by and watch more puppies suffer. It hurts my head to hear you being so caught up on "what will happen to Gus" with what feels like no concern to the possible puppies in this situation. 


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## vcm5 (Apr 20, 2011)

Honestly, this is totally ridiculous. Everyone knows how ridiculous it is.

To my fellow forum members: I love you all very dearly, you are all great wonderful people and friends. So please, lets just not do this. Lets just let this thread be and not rise to the bait, its just absolutely nuts.

Nothing is going to help. Instead, lets all just focus on all our friends here who really do want to share their lives and get advice. I am going to go read about Bentley and Ky's latest exploits, and go sniff around to see if there are any new pictures of Yogi around, and to ooh and ahhh over all the new rescues and puppies that have been recently beed added to our family here.


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## xoerika620xo (May 25, 2012)

KMerc said:


> Why is it that everything I come in this site & post a question I get people jumping down y throat. You are not even answering my question.


Maybe it's because the questions you ask are not for benefit of your dog but for the benefit of you. You keep saying you want what's best for your dog but I see people keep telling you hundreds of reasons as to why you SHOULDNT breed them and instead your making excuses. We gave you our opinion and if you don't like it then you shouldn't have asked for our opinion. It's not about the breed goldendoodle it's about the safety and best for the dogs and it doesn't seem like your thinking that way your thinking about the high demand of the breed instead which is why people are "coming down your throat"


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## KMerc (Jul 28, 2012)

I actually was leaning towards not breeding. So you are very wrong. Also I'm nt concerned abou the puppies as of now because if something would happen to Gus afterwards I would NEVER breed. Gus is like a child to me. Plus I had no idea you all are so passionate about breeding. I needed an opinion from golden experts. That's why I came on here. & thank you about the vet thing. I was given false information& I would never have known that If you didn't point that out.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

KMerc said:


> So I have a male English golden retriever & my sister has a female goldendoodle. She wants to breed them but I'm unsure if I should breed Gus or not. Does the personality of the stud change after breeding? Now Gus is 6months & Tomorrow he has an appointment for a neuter, I scheduled it because he has been humping my leg. He still squats but I wanted to neuter him before he started marking his territory to avoid it completely. But if I decide to breed him ill post pone it. I honesty wanted to breed him because i would love another puppy, & the money i would make would help for my college expenses. I'm just so indesive with this that I would love to hear your opinions! Thank you! It means a lot!


Your post is disturbing in so many ways. 

Why in the world would you want to intentionally produce mutts? That is irresponsible on soooo many fronts.

Breeding does have an affect on the behavior of an intact male. Once they learn what "whoopie" is they're going to want more.

A six month old pup humping your leg or marking in the house has nothing whatsoever to do with sex. Those are TRAINING issues, or more prescisely the lack there of. Neutering isn't going to prevent it or correct it if it is happening. It will take time and work on your part to teach acceptable behavior to your puppy. 

Six months of age is too young to neuter a golden retriever puppy, however in your case it may be for the best.


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## KMerc (Jul 28, 2012)

HA. That is not too young. Go ask your local vet.


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## KMerc (Jul 28, 2012)

My post is not disturbing. You guys are a bunch of **** if ********.


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## KMerc (Jul 28, 2012)

So the breeders who breed golden doodles are irresponsible. That's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

Bentleysmom said:


> your question WAS answered. Gus is too young. and a 1000 different reasons. Are you a troll?
> 
> /done


I remember this individual from a while back. Got rid of one puppy, got another right away..... I really believe it is a troll. At least once a week someone shows up to stir the pot. 


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

I am not a breeder and don't have any real experience but many dogs actually need help when it comes to mating. They can actually get hurt while mating. You just don't put two dogs together and expect a good outcome. Lots of breeders actually have to help with the physical process and also make sure that neither of them get hurt. 

And as SwampCollie has said it can change them.

Besides having all of the clearances such as heart, eyes, hips and elbows stud dogs are at least tested for something else before the breeding takes place so he doesn't harm the female.

I do hope you do not breed your baby and continue to let him grow up to be the best dog he can be. I hope that you will find a venue to show him in such as conformation, agility, obedience or hunt to help in your decison on if he really is worth breeding. Then you find an actual breeder to mentor you so that your Gus can work to better the breed. If you truly love him and want the best for him don't take any shortcuts do the work.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

KMerc said:


> HA. That is not too young. Go ask your local vet.


Actually I have. In addition I have discussed it with Reproductive specialists, Orthopedic Specialists and the Chief Instructors of Veterinary Medicine at the University of Minnesota.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

KMerc said:


> So the breeders who breed golden doodles are irresponsible.


You got it kid! Each and every one of them are intentionally producing mutts.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Just a reminder of the rules of this forum, otherwise this thread will need to be closed:

2. GoldenRetrieverForum.com Members shall refrain from the use of vulgar language and obscenities. – We recognize no individual word used, in and of itself, can constitute a moral evil alone but rather it’s when words are assembled into sentences that form ideas that it has the potential to become truly offensive and vulgar. However certain individual words are nevertheless considered highly offensive to the majority of the English language speakers and in recognition of this fact, a small list of those words are maintained and that can be only accessed by the moderators, and will be used to identify and assist in keeping those highly offensive words from appearing on the forum. Keep in mind that many words which are usually quite innocent, can also be used in a vulgar fashion. Thus many individual words not contained on the list per se will have to be assessed as to their offensive nature by actual usage. 



7. GoldenRetrieverForum.com Members will refrain from assassinating the character of another. – In heated discussion there is a tendency to malign the character of an opponent. Care must be taken in the wording of all statements of denigration to not single out any individual. An example is instead of saying “You are a liar” (an unacceptable accusation) nearly the same sentiment can be expressed as, “I believe you are mistaken”. Though the foregoing appears to be almost identical in the stated sentiment there is one major difference, the former attacks another’s character of honesty whereas the latter refers to a possible error having been made… this is a BIG distinction in any argument. Also refer to the larger group rather than a single individual when trying to make statements of a derogatory nature. Example: “You are a reckless breeder for not obtaining health certifications before breeding” (this being an example of an unacceptable attack on someone’s character) rather instead use “I feel all breeders who breed their dogs without obtaining health certifications prior is being reckless”. Again, the difference in meaning might seem non-existent but the earlier statement directly attacks a specific individual’s character whereas the latter is an expression of attitude toward a whole class, yet in effect making it understood that “if the shoe fits…”


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Here is my humble opinion on this. 
I personally would postpone his neutering until he is at least 18 to 24 months and fully grown. 
He cannot be cleared for HD until he is 24 months old. You may have a preliminary OFA or PennHip but that does not indicate much especially at this age.

I would not breed to a goldendoodle even though I like them all but it will not help the goldendoodle or the golden breed. All our furbabies come from some mixture of breeds, including the GRs, so I am not a person who would look down on a mixed breed. But what are you looking to get a golden goldendoodle? 

Any time you breed and especially the first litter by the time you do all the hip, elbow, eyes, heart, itchytosis etc you would be lucky if you will break even but most likely you will be in a hole. 

What about the puppies? You may be lucky and have all the puppies healthy, but you may have one or two who will not be as lucky. 

Please do not take anything in a harsh way - it is not intended that way. I myself have been toying with the idea of breeding Rose. I will keep on monitoring her (she is only 6 months old) check the health, do the clearances (which will be done even if I do not breed her) and since we will not be selling the puppies I am definitely not even looking at breaking even. But that will not happen until she is two years old and if and only if I can find a good stud. When she turns 1 year old I will most likely do the preliminary OFA (I just recently found out that they still do them) or the pennhip. If she doesn't pass this then I will proceed with spaying since I would not want her to have two heats if she will not be bred.


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## Ada's Mom (Aug 24, 2011)

KMerc said:


> So the breeders who breed golden doodles are irresponsible. That's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.


People will debate goldendoodles...but you do realize you wouldn't be breading a "true" golden doodle right? 

Golden + Poodle = goldendoodle, not golden + goldendoodle. Not to mention (someone correct me if I'm wrong), even if you cross a golden and a poodle there isn't a guarantee they'll come out looking like what people think a golden doodle is...who knows how the genetics will play out and the money you think you'd make won't happen. Also, what would you do with the pups if you had some left over?

As far as your post being "disturbing", you have to understand there are a lot of irresponsible breeders out there which should be disturbing to any dog lover and your post comes off as irresponsible. 

Personally, I don't think the decision to breed should be based off of "well, my sister has a female and I have a male and I want some money for school". It should be based off of a love for a specific breed and be thoroughly researched (as noted above you would be creating mutts ...as you said there is nothing wrong with mutts...but there are plenty of them in the animal shelters that need to be adopted and no one should intentionally breed them).


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## Jen & Brew (Oct 11, 2012)

KMerc said:


> So the breeders who breed golden doodles are irresponsible. That's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.


Yes! It's totally irresponsible to intentionally breed a mixed breed dog. 

Why? 

Because it happens all to often when intact dogs get out of the house and get knocked up, or people thinking hey, they're going to breed their lab/shep cross to their friends rotty just cause they think the pups will be cute. Reality is the majority of these dogs end up in shelters. It's just a sad truth. There are thousands of people out there with that mind set and in turn MILLIONS of dogs in shelters. It's an on-going problem.

So that my friend is why we say "It's irresponsible" 

And yes your boy can get very hurt. When dogs breed they "Tie" which means that they are literally stuck together for 20-35 min, the bitch most of the time will try to free herself so you have to be able to hold the dogs otherwise she can seriously damage your boys "Bits" and also seriously damage the bitch as well.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

KMerc said:


> HA. That is not too young. Go ask your local vet.



Actually, 6 months IS to young

The Negative Aspects of Neutering Your Pet

http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

I will try to answer the OP's question in order to gently re-route the thread. Yes, it impacts their personality. I have an AKC champion (Jack) who has been bred. Did it change him and make him crazy all the time, no, but it definitely changed how he reacts to girls in season. Prior to being bred he was tolerable, he would be upset but not inconsolable. Now he has to be crated next to our girls or he gets very upset. We have some issues getting him to eat around girls in season as well, which is not fun. We've figured out how to manage it but it is still not very nice to deal with. 

To the more general point of breeding, I mentioned my Jack (who has all his health clearances - hips, elbows, heart and annual eyes) has been bred. I have been asked to breed to him much more than I have actually let him be used. There are entirely too many homeless dogs in the world (purebred goldens included) to justify contributing to the creation of more poorly bred dogs. I feel very strongly about this and if it means my dog is not bred ever again because I don't deem the breeder or her female to be appropriate for my dog (structurally or pedigree-wise), then so be it. It is a cause so much more important than money. Seeing the faces of dogs in rescue and in shelters should make you think twice about producing more mixed breed dogs. I am not saying this to judge you, but to really think about what you will be putting out into the world if you let your dog be bred. Are you willing to take back those puppies at any time during their life if their owners are unable to keep them? What if they have severe health issues? How would you feel about one of Gus' puppies ending up in rescue? Pretty guilty, I bet. It's just not worth it. When in doubt, say NO.


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

From who did you purchase Gus?? Did he come with a contract?? Does your contract state anything about breeding him? 

I have to agree with the other 656 posters but just curious regarding the questions above.


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

I am not sure how old you are, but assuming young! I do hope you search this thread and learn what the differences are between backyard breeders and reputable breeders.

Have you talked to the breeder of where you bought your male about possibly breeding? Did you have a contract with them? Most reputable breeders sell their dogs on limited registration which means they can not be bred. 

When asking if we think that golden doodle breeders are irresponsible. Ask your sister if the golden doodle's parents had clearances? Most likely not! The problems in poodles and Goldens will show up in golden doodles also.

It is not about making money from breeding, it is about producing healthy and sound puppies. Are you aware of SAS, PU, ED, HD, and many more health problems found in Goldens? 

Have you read the Standard of a golden retriever? Does your male fit the standard? (You do not know this yet because he is only 6 months of age) 

You seem like a nice person (just clueless), and I would bet you do not want to produce an unhealthy litter. Reputable breeders do everything they can to produce healthy and confident puppies. Nothing is guaranteed as far as health, but I would be doing a little more researching and testing before I would say my dog is worthy of being bred.

Do you know the health behind your dog? Cancer? HD? ED? 

If this is completely bogus to you, I feel saddened that you can not grasp how special the golden retriever breed is to all of us. It is preserving the breed, not to make money off of people.


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## Ohiomom9977 (Jul 27, 2012)

Aside from your question about how it would affect your dog, and the fact that he's too young to be bred - you say the puppies will be in good hands. How old is the goldendoodle, has she been bred before, had clearances, etc. Has your sister ever raised puppies from birth?? It's just a really bad idea for 2 people that don't have a clue about breeding to breed their dogs.


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## Tuco (Jan 3, 2013)

Guys guys be civil, the guy came on the forum asking questions and all he gets is hostilities, I love the quarter poodles because they still look like goldens but I nice wavy quality to their hair. First of all although doodles are popular quarters aren't as much, what I would do is post some ads around seeing what he demand would be, also, don't breed until 2 years old and you need to have the money for everything that could go wrong, wether it be having to drive 5 states away to give one away for free you have to be prepared, also neutering won't fix marking or humping. He shouldn't change after breeding but the others no madder how hostile do have points, you really got to play the worst case scenario, especially because they are a mixed breed


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## Tuco (Jan 3, 2013)

Although it can change how he responds to bitches


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## Tuco (Jan 3, 2013)

KMerc said:


> I'm just repeating what my vet told me. He said if I entire Gus early enough he will not mark his territory. & he humped when he was 2 months. I understand it is a behavior.


That's just a bunch of bull he's telling you to either make money or make the procedure easier, neutering wont change or prevent this behaviour and neutering at 6 months can turn the health benefits into addition issues such as growth plates not sealing. You generally want to wait until 2 years old


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

We are discussing living breathing puppies, not the new Honda Accord. The "demand" for the 3/4 golden, 1/4 poodle puppies should not be why one is breeding a litter. There are tens of thousands of mixed breed dogs in shelters. Many of those were the result of "oh what's the harm in one litter" type of breedings. I think it's despicable to intentionally produce mixed breed dogs (or poorly bred pure breds) when so many are put to death everyday in shelters.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

kfayard said:


> I am not sure how old you are, but assuming young! I do hope you search this thread and learn what the differences are between backyard breeders and reputable breeders.
> 
> Have you talked to the breeder of where you bought your male about possibly breeding? Did you have a contract with them? Most reputable breeders sell their dogs on limited registration which means they can not be bred.
> 
> ...


Very well put! 

I'd also ask, as a new golden puppy owner who is relying on my breeder for a lot of great advice and ideas for my 14 week old puppy, is the female's owner ready and experienced enough to answer questions of the puppy purchasers so the puppies have the best possible care and upbringing? Furthermore, does the owner of the doodle know if both parents have health clearances and know about the behavioral characteristics of both breeds? Poodles have their own idiosyncrasies and issues and those things can be passed on to offspring just like those of goldens are passed on- the combination may be a dog that is unique behaviorally, just like mixes. The owner of the doodle should be willing to help the puppy owners sort these things out and provide guidance if needed. I'm assuming that you will probably be charging a "premium" for these puppies since you refer to your dog as an English cream and the other dog as a "designer breed"-- for that purchase price, the purchaser should get a wealth of knowledge, experience and guidance, just like the reputable Golden breeders provide for their puppy people for the life of the puppies. Reputable breeders also are willing to take the puppy back if for any reason the owner can no longer care for it- is the doodle's owner willing to do this? It really is a lifelong commitment to being a responsible breeder. You are doing the puppies a huge disservice if you don't think of these things before starting out on a venture like this.


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

JMHO I would go ahead and neuter him. It can change his behavior for the better with no ill effects.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

vcm5 said:


> Lets just let this thread be and not rise to the bait, its just absolutely nuts...Nothing is going to help.


I can't just "let this thread be" because there will be many people reading it because of the title. So here's my input...

To the OP, (and any lurkers wanting to breed their dogs)...please have your sister read this. Hopefully, she will not want to breed her girl afterwards:

SO YOU WANT TO BREED DOGS DO YOU?


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## AlanK (Jun 28, 2008)

Your original question was *"So I have a male English golden retriever & my sister has a female goldendoodle. She wants to breed them but I'm unsure if I should breed Gus or not."*

My opinion would be no. 

So many members on this forum are very passionate about proper breeding practices for Golden Retrievers or any dog for that matter, and we all see so many dogs in rescues needing homes. Please be responsable with your decision.


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## Cari (Sep 19, 2012)

KMerc said:


> I am concerned about the puppies? As I said they will be in good hands. Of course I'm going to worry about Gus first..as the puppies aren't even created yet.


How do you know the puppies will be in good hands when they go to their homes?! You don't because the dogs you will be creating sure, may be great dogs BUT without health certs, papers, proper breeding, show quality etc you will not get much money for them meaning that anyone is able to buy one (and possibly decide they don't want it later on) When a good breeders pairs dogs with health certs, good breeding, papers, champion lines etc etc they require a very high cost as to ensure the puppies are going to a good place. At prices $900-$2400 (prices I've seen for rep breeder pups) the new owner is likely to be serious about having a dog and will not likely send a dog they have invested tons in to a shelter. People will pay to know they have a quality dog and a healthy one. People go through questioning before a breeder will sell a dog many times and they come with contracts.

Puppies that are sold for low prices are not huge assets to people especially once they experience the sometimes hardships of having a dog.

The security that the puppies will be cared for their entire lives is null by breeding such as you are talking about.

Also a Goldendoolde/Golden pair is not even following the "Goldendoodle" line...The pups would only be 1/4 doodle...

I agree with the people about the shelter thing too...there are so many "good mutts" as you say, without homes that are neglected etc etc and a lot of this is because there is a huge abundance of "random" breeding like this. Why create more dogs that are likely to end up the same way?


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I had a golden girl puppy with terrible elbow dysplasia, and I cannot describe all the tears and expense, and how much pain the puppy endured. Her mind was that of an athete, but her elbows were full of bone fragments, like walking with rocks in your shoes but in her elbows. When you breed together the genetic roullette of poodles and goldens, you can easily get the health problems of both, and end up with a whole litter that has anguishing elbow pain, sudden death from cardiac stenosis- that is one reason breeders study, study , study pedigrees generations back in time. Once you have 11 sick puppies on your conscience, you cannot take it back. There is no way for you to be a good dog person, and for you to breed Gus under 2 without health clearances now that you have read this thread. You have all the education you need to be responsible, so do that. www.offa.org is where Gus and your sister's dog need to have all 4 clearances after each is two, before we can even get into the issue of the poodle mixes.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

In all honesty, I don't think the fact that the dogs would not be 1/2 golden 1/2 poodle is really the issue. A mixed breed is a mixed breed is a mixed breed. The percentage of mix might matter to those who are trying to market them as doodles, goldenpoos or pootrievers, but they are all mixed breeds to me.... and while they are all certainly deserving of a wonderful life, they are just like the thousands of mixed breeds sitting in shelters. I would not want this litter on my conscience....


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

KMerc said:


> So I have a male English golden retriever & my sister has a female goldendoodle. She wants to breed them but I'm unsure if I should breed Gus or not. Does the personality of the stud change after breeding? Now Gus is 6months & Tomorrow he has an appointment for a neuter, I scheduled it because he has been humping my leg. He still squats but I wanted to neuter him before he started marking his territory to avoid it completely. But if I decide to breed him ill post pone it. I honesty wanted to breed him because i would love another puppy, & the money i would make would help for my college expenses. I'm just so indesive with this that I would love to hear your opinions! Thank you! It means a lot!


I haven't read any of the responses, yet. But I will. Cuz this thread has some serious :argue::bricks1::no::slapcry::slamdoor: potential.

This is likely either a joke or a trolling thread. Right? I mean, really??? Have you _read_ this forum before?


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

Please read through the past posts by this individual before deciding whether to give him any more attention. I'm pretty sure this individual is jerking our chains.


Has 9 week old female puppy with biting issues. Might get rid of her because grandmother doesn't like her.

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...-discussion/117949-desperate-need-advice.html

More questions about problems with 3 mo. old female puppy.

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...discussion/118822-golden-owner-need-help.html

Asks if males are easier to train than females.

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/golden-retrievers-main-discussion/119598-female-vs-male.html

Needs a name for newly acquired male puppy. Does not mention what happened to female.

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...-discussion/119849-need-name-please-help.html

Asks about biting and jumping problems with newly acquired male puppy. Again, mentions that grandmother is afraid of puppy. 

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...-discussion/122366-advice-jumping-please.html


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

So, realizing that this is a troll, I will talk about what I want to.

I work for the Golden Retriever Club of Greater Los Angeles Rescue. Right now we have many wonderful dogs who need homes. We also have some very challenged dogs, who are the result of bad breeding and/or socialization, which will be very hard to place.

We have a dog named King, for instance. What a bright, enthusiastic boy he is! And one many people would find pretty. Plus, he's well trained. We do basic training/reward all the time, and he has fun performing for a treat. He's also a blast to pet, play with and walk. Up to a point. That point is reached whenever we get too close to another dog, a bunny, squirrel, bird, bicyclist, jogger or other living thing. Then he just goes berserk. He's super-reactive. And because of that, we haven't been able to place this beautiful boy, even in a foster home. He's living his life in a kennel in a veterinarian's office, walked twice a day by caring volunteers, and he gets no other stimulation. He has no family to love him. He has no home, no yard, no pals, never experiences the world, never gets off a leash, never gets to run or play.

Why? Because some fidiot thought breeding two crappy dogs together and selling the puppies to all comers was a good idea.

But I love him as much and as often as I can. He deserves it. He's actually a great dog, and I feel really bad for him. And that's what I'd rather post about than responding to this troll.


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

DanaRuns said:


> So, realizing that this is a troll, I will talk about what I want to.
> 
> I work for the Golden Retriever Club of Greater Los Angeles Rescue. Right now we have many wonderful dogs who need homes. We also have some very challenged dogs, who are the result of bad breeding and/or socialization, which will be very hard to place.
> 
> ...


I was really surprised to learn GR of Greater L.A. Rescue keep alot of their goldens in kennels. Would this be because they are really strict on who they adopt them out to? So they hold on to them longer?

Also to be fair a well bred dog can go sour if not treated correctly


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

I can only speak to the rescue operations for my club (GRCSDC) but I imagine it is similar circumstances. Fosters often get very burnt out over the years and the number of dogs in need of foster homes is much higher than the number of fosters available. Particularly for a reactive dog...that is a very hard dog to place in a foster home.


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

Wyatt's mommy said:


> I was really surprised to learn GR of Greater L.A. Rescue keep alot of their goldens in kennels. Would this be because they are really strict on who they adopt them out to? So they hold on to them longer?
> 
> Also to be fair a well bred dog can go sour if not treated correctly


They don't keep "a lot" of dogs in kennels. I can only speak for Orange County, where I volunteer. When dogs first come in, they go to the vet/kennel to be checked out medically, spayed/neutered and kenneled to wait for a foster. If they can't be placed in a foster, they live in the kennel until they can be placed. If they have health issues, they go to the kennel (which is really a vet office in Orange County). If they have training issues, they sometimes go live at a training facility for a time.

It costs a lot of money to do it that way. Much more expensive than fostering. And fosters are better for the dogs, too. But when they are in the kennel/vet's office, we try to give them as much love and attention as possible.

Yep, well bred dogs can be mistreated and have problems. But the odds of that happening are much lower when breeders don't sell for money and screen puppy buyers, which is wholly unlike the kind of breeding practices that are being advocated by the troll. That's why I brought it up.


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

goldenjackpuppy said:


> I can only speak to the rescue operations for my club (GRCSDC) but I imagine it is similar circumstances. Fosters often get very burnt out over the years and the number of dogs in need of foster homes is much higher than the number of fosters available. Particularly for a reactive dog...that is a very hard dog to place in a foster home.


I'm sure that is some of the reasons. However they swoop up every golden that come into the shelters then are very strict on adopting them out, whether it is because both people work, or no fences etc. In the meantime these dogs can be in loving homes. That was our experience 2 years ago anyways.


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## GoldensGirl (Aug 2, 2010)

This thread is going nowhere good and I am closing it now. If you have questions about why, please PM me. Prior moderator posts have alerted all concerned to Forum rules.


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