# Living with liver shunt



## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

No experience, but my lab was tested and was found to be negative. She is EXTREMELY laid back for a athletic conditioned dog. 

I was wondering how you found out the condition? What were your concerns leading up to the diagnosis? Besides special food is there anything else you may be doing? I thought my vet said surgery is an option but for us we did not have to go that route. 

Hope all is wonderful for your young pup!

Ann


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## Cumberland Lucy (Feb 15, 2010)

We found out by doing a bile acid test. Her level before she ate was 170.9, the vet said it shouldn't be any higher than 12.0 and her 2 hour post eating level was 229.6 and it shouldn't be any higher than 25.0. Also her Albumin and Globulin levels were low. She would have episodes of heavy drooling and aimlessly wandering and bumping into walls,doors,etc., and it seemed that whenever she had these episodes she would start eating blankets,rugs,etc., we had to constantly watch her. We had an appointment 2 1/2 weeks ago to do an ultra sound but her ammonia level in her blood was to high. The vet then told us the best thing to do would be a radiograph to locate the shunt and that would cost $1700.00. We really don't know for sure if it is a shunt but the signs/symptoms all point in that direction acccording to our vet. We have been giving her lactulose 3 times a day and a vitamin powder. She has responded very well and has been the most energetic we have ever seen her in the last 7 months, so hopefully we can mange this situation with what we are doing right now. 

Laurie,Jim




Maxs Mom said:


> No experience, but my lab was tested and was found to be negative. She is EXTREMELY laid back for a athletic conditioned dog.
> 
> I was wondering how you found out the condition? What were your concerns leading up to the diagnosis? Besides special food is there anything else you may be doing? I thought my vet said surgery is an option but for us we did not have to go that route.
> 
> ...


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

bumping up


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## Claire's Friend (Feb 26, 2007)

When I first took Morgan, I was told she had a liver shunt and that was what was causing her seizures. So I did do a lot of research. I had planned to have the surgery done, but then it turned out her liver was fine. If you can keep things under control with diet, that would be the best I would think. Hills does have some nasty stuff in it so if you could do home made I would think that would be better.


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## Cumberland Lucy (Feb 15, 2010)

Claire's Friend, Did you ever do a bile acid test for Morgan? Why were you told she had a liver shunt because of the seizures or were there other symptoms? Lucy has never had seizures, but she likes to eat foreign objects and it seems that is when she would get goofy. I always wondered if Lucy's eating of foreign objects had an effect on her bile acid level. We are trying to control her diet and I have been reading about the homemade diet also. We have been quoted a price of $4500.00 for the surgery.




Claire's Friend said:


> When I first took Morgan, I was told she had a liver shunt and that was what was causing her seizures. So I did do a lot of research. I had planned to have the surgery done, but then it turned out her liver was fine. If you can keep things under control with diet, that would be the best I would think. Hills does have some nasty stuff in it so if you could do home made I would think that would be better.


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

It was when Belle had her seizures we tested for the shunt. We did all the other tests and she was normal. My vet said it was a stretch but because she was SO laid back maybe. As I said Belle was negative and (knock on wood) she has not had another seizure that we know about since. That was over 2 years ago. 

I am glad your pup is responding to the treatment you are doing. Does kind of sound like surgery is in the future. You are a good dog parent! It is not fair when pups have issues. They are supposed to just enjoy life. 

Ann


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## Claire's Friend (Feb 26, 2007)

Yes she has had several bile acids tests. Morgan's original owners somehow came up with this because their vets couldn't give them any other explanations for her seizures. The first thing I did when I got her into my rescue was a bile acid and thyroid test. Liver was fine, thyroid had never been working right. If you find out that your baby needs this operation to live a full, quality life, I will help you with fund raising if you need. Keep us posted.


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## Cumberland Lucy (Feb 15, 2010)

Thank you Claire's Friend for the offer it is very generous. Maxs Mom thank you for your support also and kind words. I agree it doesn't seem fair to her, she also was diagnosed with Hypertrophic Osteodystrophy(HOD) in her front legs when she was 5 months old and that looked like it was painful for her, it took her about 1 month to recover from that and now she is going through this. It is great to see her running and jumping around and finally acting like a puppy. We are just enjoying her energy right now, something we missed out on the last few months.


Laurie&Jim


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## Claire's Friend (Feb 26, 2007)

Wow, so she has already had an operation and they didn't find a liver shunt with all the pre op work up???


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## Cumberland Lucy (Feb 15, 2010)

No, Lucy has not had the liver shunt surgery yet. We would have to do diagnositc testing to locate the shunt. The day we took her in for the diagnostic testing her ammonia level in her blood was to high. She wouldn't be able to handle the anesthesia with her ammonia level so high is what they told us. Basically, we paid $286.00 to find out we couldn't to the diagnostics that day. She would have needed surgery on her front legs if the valgus angulation of the distal limbs(from the vets comments) would have gotten worse but they didn't.


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## Cumberland Lucy (Feb 15, 2010)

knog, thanks for the PM, I tried to reply but don't have enough posts yet.

Jim Laurie Lucy


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## knog (Jan 12, 2008)

I hope you find this worthwhile information on that site. If you need help signing up, just let me know here. Seems like there is a lot of knowledge to be found there.

I wish you the best.


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## Cumberland Lucy (Feb 15, 2010)

Thanks knog, We will be in contact with you. Lucy has been real well lately, it seems like she is getting better everyday. Lucy is 10 months old today. We are still waiting to find something out from UW Madison about diagnostics. My sister is attending the vet school there and is looking into things for us.

How is your pup doing? Hopefully you got good news with your bile acid test.

Jim Laurie&Lucy


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## knog (Jan 12, 2008)

Z is feeling fine. I read some stuff about reactions to Rimadyl which he was on for uveitis for two weeks that can cause anemia and some neurological stuff. Also the vet told me he has regenerative anemia but according to the lab test copies he gave me, Z does NOT have regenerative anemia. So I'm kinda waiting for the bile acid results and then I think I'm gonna see an internal specialist. Something's going on but I'm getting the feeling that my docs are quite good at vaccinations and nail trims, but maybe not so good at diagnosing illnesses. Which is okay - I love the guy as does Z - but sometimes specialists are a good thing, right?

I was really encouraged by some of the stuff I read on the dogliverdisease group. Fingers crossed for you!


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## Cumberland Lucy (Feb 15, 2010)

Yes specialist can be good, but the cost-yikes. we have been to the specialist a few times already. When Lucy was having the issue with her front legs(HOD) our vet knew something was wrong but didn't know for sure what it was. She referred us to a clininc and they knew what it was right away...after doing there own x-rays. It took our vet about 4 months to figure out that Lucy had a liver shunt. We would call them and tell them what was going on and they just figured it was from her eating the foreign objects or possibly her coming into heat. They thought her pacing and chewing things apart was her way of trying to nest. The last episode she had I called them and told them she needed to be seen right away and they got us in and that is when the vet suspected she had the shunt. Lucy was in a daze, drooling, paralysis in her lower jaw and absence of menace reflex??(trying to read vet's writing)The vet was poking towards her eyes and she wouldn't blink or move at all. It was terrible thing to see her like that.:no: I'm trying to post pics of Lucy but they do not work. Do I need a certain number of posts to do that also?

Jim Laurie&Lucy


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## knog (Jan 12, 2008)

I don't think you need a certain number of posts to upload pics.


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## knog (Jan 12, 2008)

This is the first time I've been able to figure out how to add a photo and it took me quite a long time, but this is my sickly little guy. lol


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## momtoMax (Apr 21, 2009)

I don't have any advice for you but I have a sideline question for you. Did you talk to your breeder about the problems and see if at the least you could get your money refunded? That would help to pay towards the medical bills. Sorry to see that Lucy has faced so much in her young life. She is lucky to have owners who care so much about her!


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## Cumberland Lucy (Feb 15, 2010)

Yes, we did get our money back. He was a little reluctant at first and I had him call the vet. It will help with the cost of the dog food-$58.00 for a 20# bag. We lover her so much and it hurt to see her limping around when she had HOD and then now this...she's still our girl though.

Jim Laurie&Lucy



momtoMax said:


> I don't have any advice for you but I have a sideline question for you. Did you talk to your breeder about the problems and see if at the least you could get your money refunded? That would help to pay towards the medical bills. Sorry to see that Lucy has faced so much in her young life. She is lucky to have owners who care so much about her!


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## Cumberland Lucy (Feb 15, 2010)

Here is our girl Lucy digging a hole in a pile of snow today. She is 10 months old today.


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## knog (Jan 12, 2008)

Happy birthday, Lucy! You are adorable!


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## Cumberland Lucy (Feb 15, 2010)

Just wanted to put an update on here about Lucy. It has almost been 1 year since she was diagnosed with a liver shunt. We decided to medically mangage it with proper diet, meds and supplements. About 1 week after we found out about the shunt, we joined Dog Liver Disease group on yahoo and received a lot of good help. Since then Lucy has improved greatly and has put on about 20 pounds and she now weighs 65 pounds. Surgery seemed risky and we didn't want to put her through that since she has responded well, so we are keeping our fingers crossed and hoping she will be with us for awhile. We are looking forward to her 2nd birthday on April 24th.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

What wonderful news. So glad you let us know. Lucy is so lucky to have you all as family. I'd love to see more pics.


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

YEAH LUCY!!!!!

Some of the yahoo groups are such great people. I joined the HD group when Teddi was diagnosed with HD, and they were truly my support for my whole ordeal. Still my friends. Glad you have a good back up support team. 

GO LUCY!!!!!


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## Jax's Mom (Oct 16, 2009)

So happy to hear Lucy is doing well. Wishing her many many more happy years with you and your family!


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

That is great news - may Lucy have many more years with you


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## Cumberland Lucy (Feb 15, 2010)

Here are some recent pictures of Lucy


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## Kally76 (Jun 14, 2010)

What great news! She is beautiful!!!!


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## Louis Hughes (Mar 15, 2011)

Cumberland Lucy said:


> Just wanted to put an update on here about Lucy. It has almost been 1 year since she was diagnosed with a liver shunt. We decided to medically mangage it with proper diet, meds and supplements. About 1 week after we found out about the shunt, we joined Dog Liver Disease group on yahoo and received a lot of good help. Since then Lucy has improved greatly and has put on about 20 pounds and she now weighs 65 pounds. Surgery seemed risky and we didn't want to put her through that since she has responded well, so we are keeping our fingers crossed and hoping she will be with us for awhile. We are looking forward to her 2nd birthday on April 24th.


 Hi my name is Louis and my partner we live in Australia, just recieved the news today that our 4 month old Coco has liver shunt. It has broken our hearts and we are in two minds in whether to keep her or have her put to sleep. 
It is just that we have read that she may have rages of fits and may bite our other girl. Is it managable and do they suffer any other forms of physical or mental discomforts.
We read your story on here and it had given us some hope and would dearly love to hear from you.


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## Cumberland Lucy (Feb 15, 2010)

Louis Hughes said:


> Hi my name is Louis and my partner we live in Australia, just recieved the news today that our 4 month old Coco has liver shunt. It has broken our hearts and we are in two minds in whether to keep her or have her put to sleep.
> It is just that we have read that she may have rages of fits and may bite our other girl. Is it managable and do they suffer any other forms of physical or mental discomforts.
> We read your story on here and it had given us some hope and would dearly love to hear from you.


I am sorry to hear about Coco. It is a tough decision on what to do, I have to admit that there are times that I question myself if I did the right thing by medically managing it, recently we have been battling UTI infections with Lucy, but her overall health has been good. We feed her 5 times a day, usually about 2-3 hours between feedings, she gets 4 cups total per day. Lucy has never had any bouts with rage, the symptoms she had was excessive drooling, wandering aimlessly bumping into walls(like she was drunk), head wobbling around. This disease stinks and I wish no dog would ever get it.:no: Check out Dog Liver Disease on yahoo groups and become a member.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Cumberland Lucy*

Cumberland Lucy

I am so very sorry to hear about everything you and Lucy are going through!
I know that As Good As Gold, Golden Ret. Rescue in IL, had a dog Ellie that had to have surgery for her live. She was operated on in New York.


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## shadowsmomma (May 29, 2012)

I just read your post, and our little guy Shadow is battling problems believed to be a liver shunt. We can not afford the surgery and special diagnostic tests that precede it, so I wanted to see if you could tell me a little more about medical management and diet, etc.??


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

My Bing has a shunt....and we rescued a dog with a shunt as well they both did have surgery BUT for the first year we had to use medical management until they were big enough and strong enough for surgery is a variety of things.... 

first 
to support the liver Denosyl (sam-e) and Marin (milk thistle) not the combination product demarin the combination product does not contain the zinc and thus my internist prefers the two seperate products 

Prilosec for life. 1 tablet /day as most of these large dogs have concurrent Inflammatory bowel disease and the prilosec will help to prevent ulcers 

metronidizol everday to keep the bacteria in the gut down... this will help the protein to be utilized properly 

lactulose - you want the food to run through his system fairly quickly so give him the dosage of lactulose that will keep the stool the consistency of soft serve ice cream 

diet - prescription low protein/soy based protein diet my boys prefered the royal canin hepatic over the hills LD 

low protein/vegetarian treats... 

no nsaids (rimadyl, metacam deramax) EVER 

and watch for anesthesia issues 

s


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## shadowsmomma (May 29, 2012)

Thank you for your information. Do you know of any organizations that offer financial assistance with the surgery and diagnostics for this disease? My husband and I love our Shadow to death, but the financial burden of these issues is becoming a real problem for us. We've put everything possible on credit cards, but have maxed ourselves out. Medical management seems like an easier option, but with all of the extensive meds and food, it may be more beneficial to go ahead with the surgery. 




Shalva said:


> My Bing has a shunt....and we rescued a dog with a shunt as well they both did have surgery BUT for the first year we had to use medical management until they were big enough and strong enough for surgery is a variety of things....
> 
> first
> to support the liver Denosyl (sam-e) and Marin (milk thistle) not the combination product demarin the combination product does not contain the zinc and thus my internist prefers the two seperate products
> ...


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## Cumberland Lucy (Feb 15, 2010)

Shalva said:


> My Bing has a shunt....and we rescued a dog with a shunt as well they both did have surgery BUT for the first year we had to use medical management until they were big enough and strong enough for surgery is a variety of things....
> 
> first
> to support the liver Denosyl (sam-e) and Marin (milk thistle) not the combination product demarin the combination product does not contain the zinc and thus my internist prefers the two seperate products
> ...


Everything is spot on with this advice. I joined a Dog Liver Disease group on Yahoo that offers very good advice also.


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## Cumberland Lucy (Feb 15, 2010)

Just wanted to update everyone. About two weeks ago Lucy took a turn for the worse and it happened overnight. Lucy's body started to destroy her red blood cells and she wasn't making any new ones. Her platelets were low, white blood cell count was high and she had a temp of 104. The vet suspected she had AIHA. Lucy was very lethargic and had little appetite. A couple of days after being on prednisone her appetite came back a little bit and she was a little more active. This past Saturday she started to go down hill again. We took her to to a clinic on Sunday hoping we could get a transfusion and turn things around for her. When we got to the clinic Lucy was not doing well. They took blood from her and the vet informed us that a transfusion was a band-aid approach and the best thing for her would be euthanasia. Unfortunately, we knew that someday we were going to be faced with this decision. My wife and I said our goodbyes to Lucy. My wife wasn't able to stay in the room with her and I didn't think I could handle it either, but I had to go back in. I laid on her favorite blanket with her and rubbed her head as I looked into her eyes and told her I loved her and that she was going to be ok....I was the last one she saw as she crossed the rainbow bridge. 
Lucy, we miss you so much.


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

Cumberland Lucy said:


> Just wanted to update everyone. About two weeks ago Lucy took a turn for the worse and it happened overnight. Lucy's body started to destroy her red blood cells and she wasn't making any new ones. Her platelets were low, white blood cell count was high and she had a temp of 104. The vet suspected she had AIHA. Lucy was very lethargic and had little appetite. A couple of days after being on prednisone her appetite came back a little bit and she was a little more active. This past Saturday she started to go down hill again. We took her to to a clinic on Sunday hoping we could get a transfusion and turn things around for her. When we got to the clinic Lucy was not doing well. They took blood from her and the vet informed us that a transfusion was a band-aid approach and the best thing for her would be euthanasia. Unfortunately, we knew that someday we were going to be faced with this decision. My wife and I said our goodbyes to Lucy. My wife wasn't able to stay in the room with her and I didn't think I could handle it either, but I had to go back in. I laid on her favorite blanket with her and rubbed her head as I looked into her eyes and told her I loved her and that she was going to be ok....I was the last one she saw as she crossed the rainbow bridge.
> Lucy, we miss you so much.


So sorry for your loss! It's hard and there is really nothing I can say except I am very sorry


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## PrincessDi (Jun 8, 2009)

I'm very sorry to read that you lost your beloved girl Lucy. I know that she appreciated you holding her as she left for the bridge.


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## Rainheart (Nov 28, 2010)

So sorry of your loss of Lucy... To be gone at such a young age. May she run free at the bridge...


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

So so sorry for your loss. How sad!


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

So very sorry to hear of your loss; sleep softly and play hard at the Bridge sweet Lucy.


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## jealous1 (Dec 7, 2007)

I a sorry to hear of your loss--please take comfort in knowing that Lucy is now running free of her pain.


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## inge (Sep 20, 2009)

I am so very sorry..


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*So very sorry*



Cumberland Lucy said:


> Just wanted to update everyone. About two weeks ago Lucy took a turn for the worse and it happened overnight. Lucy's body started to destroy her red blood cells and she wasn't making any new ones. Her platelets were low, white blood cell count was high and she had a temp of 104. The vet suspected she had AIHA. Lucy was very lethargic and had little appetite. A couple of days after being on prednisone her appetite came back a little bit and she was a little more active. This past Saturday she started to go down hill again. We took her to to a clinic on Sunday hoping we could get a transfusion and turn things around for her. When we got to the clinic Lucy was not doing well. They took blood from her and the vet informed us that a transfusion was a band-aid approach and the best thing for her would be euthanasia. Unfortunately, we knew that someday we were going to be faced with this decision. My wife and I said our goodbyes to Lucy. My wife wasn't able to stay in the room with her and I didn't think I could handle it either, but I had to go back in. I laid on her favorite blanket with her and rubbed her head as I looked into her eyes and told her I loved her and that she was going to be ok....I was the last one she saw as she crossed the rainbow bridge.
> Lucy, we miss you so much.


I am so very sorry about your precious little girl, Lucy!!


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## HolDaisy (Jan 10, 2012)

So very sorry for your loss of beautiful Lucy. She is free from her pain now and running round having lots of fun at Rainbow Bridge with all her new goldie friends.


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## Buddy's mom forever (Jun 23, 2011)

I am very sorry for your loss of Lucy. It is heartbreaking to lose her so young. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your wife.


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