# Prong Collars.... Your Opinion on Herm Sprenger Neck Tech Prong Collars?



## Beach_Bums (Aug 18, 2016)

Hey Guys!
My puppy Mumford and I are a service Dog and Handler team! I am so grateful for him everyday he helps me live a normal life and he is the best thing that has ever happened to me. For the past year we have been training everyday with a Halti.... I took months trying to get him used to it using Positive Reinforcement. I have never once corrected him with a leash pop or anything but even after a year he hates it. He will not do his tasks nor can he if he is wearing it. and if he has the chance he still tries to pull out of it. 

Because of my disability I do not have a lot of strength in my body and I am probably going to get a lot of hate for this post but for others out there who use Prong Collars as a training tool, who have done a lot of research, and who have it fitted properly. Do any of you have the Herm Sprenger Neck Tech Prong Collar. I am wondering if 1. It is effective? 2. Has it affected your dogs hair by cutting it?

I know there are going to be people on here that bash me saying I am abusing my dog, but i do need a gentle reminder as well as a back up incase Mumford decides his nose knows better than i do while we are still training. I have balance issues as well as Seizures, lose of consciences issues that i need Mumford for and he is still learning because he is a still a puppy. 

I will be seeking a professional trainer to help make sure this experience is pleasant for Mumford, and that i am using it correctly. 

Enclosed is a link to the Type of prong collar I am referring to. 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B..._title_gw_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1UD95ZIZBDVCE


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## Altairss (Sep 7, 2012)

I have a different version of the Sprenger prong collar. I had never used any prong collars before, until Boots. Boots came thru the rescue and had many issues and with standard flat collars almost did damage to his neck more then once. We tried harnesses and halties but had so many problems he had such issues with them it was almost scary how he would freak out over their use even with tons of positive reinforcement. A certified behaviorist worked with us and then brought out the Sprenger I was hesitant but with proper and correct fitting and training for me it was like he was a different dog it took very little to correct or control him and better yet no damage to his throat like the flat collar. 

And after about a year getting all his other issues worked over we then transitioned away from it. I had very positive experiences with the use of mine and briefly used it with Tink. If a trainer works with you and you get it properly fitted and trained in its use then it could be a good option for you. There are different types and you may want to speak with your trainer before choosing the best Sprenger for your dog. Its a good training aid in trained hands.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

I have used regular prong collars on my dogs that pulled - and swear by them. I have used them in classes where they have taught us to use them correctly. Personally, I think they are less humane than a flat collar for some dogs. A flat collar can do a lot of damage to a dog that pulls.

If you put a prong collar around your arm, and tighten it, you will see that the press is evenly distributed, and doesn't hurt - it is just pressure.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

So far you are not getting hating!!
I too think a well fitted prong is a good tool. Once you get a good heel on your dog you will be able to use your voice to keep him from pulling if the prong's removal causes behavior to return.


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## 3181wly (Nov 22, 2015)

I got my 2.5 year old Service Dog about 4 weeks ago, and I'm his first partner since he left the program that trained him. I know the program sometimes uses prong collar, and they wanted me to use one for the first few weeks. I decided against it, just because they look so painful. I didn't want to start my relationship on that foot. Anyway, I still don't use one, but I can see why they work effectively, but I haven't found a real reason to use one, so I don't. On the other hand, I have the ability to control Doc without one, so that helps a lot. A simple correction usually does the trick. If something truly wild happens, then I can hold him with his leash without problem, but that rarely happens. A prong would help though if there are control issues that interfere with the work to be done. It is not a torture device as so many say it is, so no hate mail from me. I think virtually every program in the country uses them at some point or another. Good luck.


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## Beach_Bums (Aug 18, 2016)

Thank you all for your very helpful messages. I have raised Mumford since he was a puppy and we have an awesome relationship. I am going to be training with a trainer that comes recommended from Michael Ellis. BillBRNC I think that is really awesome what program did you dog come from and how long did you have to wait? If you dont mind my asking. I think i am going to start with the neck tech because what I have been reading it does not deliver very harsh corrections and it does not look like a traditional prong. While I love my dog he does make it hard to go to the store because of people stopping us to ask question or trying to pet him. I know it would be hard to go to the store with a service dog with a prong because of all the questions and judgments people feel they need to tell me about. 

Thank you all again for the information.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Beach_Bums said:


> I know it would be hard to go to the store with a service dog with a prong because of all the questions and judgments people feel they need to tell me about.
> 
> Thank you all again for the information.


I do agree with that. Even on the very simple Canine Good Citizen test , TDI Therapy Dog etc, prong collars are not allowed. Right or wrong, I think people might assume a dog on a prong collar is not an officially certified service dog. The public access test I think does allow a prong collar.


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## 3181wly (Nov 22, 2015)

I was luck I only had to wait one year about. But there were some unusual circumstances that made that possible, which is why I prefer not to mention the program because people get very touchy on the subject of the wait period and such. The normal wait is about 2 years, with a lot of joint training during the final several months. I could not do joint training at the school, so I've been doing it at home with the help of the head trainer who comes up sometimes on weekends. I know what to do and how to do it, but it just takes time working with a new SD for the team to work effectively. Some say up to a year. Others say 6 months or 3 months. I'm coming up on I think 5 weeks with Doc, and things are going very well, particularly the public access stuff, but really everything is going well...as I knock on wood and keep fingers crossed.


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## Beach_Bums (Aug 18, 2016)

I totally understand the wait time through some of the programs where I am is closer to 3 years. I am really lucky to have training experience and was able to do most of the training myself. Mumford is great on a flat collar for the most part he just tends to follow is nose because most of his tasks are so nose oriented. He is getting much better and I plan to ween him off the prong as quickly as possible. He has he AKC Star Puppy certificate and CGC. but after a long day of working sometimes he gets over tired and loses some focus. 

It is awesome to hear how another team is doing!


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## 3181wly (Nov 22, 2015)

Don't worry about the dog losing focus when tired. I didn't want a robot dog. I wanted one that was very well trained for public access and obedience, and able to learn tasks. I have Alzheimer's and Parkinson Dementia mix, so I also needed a dog trained in mobility. Truth is I have no idea what I'll need today, tomorrow, or next month, so I need a dog that can think and learn to the extent a dog can think and learn. Robot-like perfection isn't want I was seeking or wanting. Doc sometimes looks backwards or follows his nose, or jumps when two dogs come running at him barking with bared teeth. I don't care, because I there to protect him, and he now knows it, so he doesn't do much of anything when an attack comes his way. As for the other stuff, that's just dog stuff, and if you don't like dog stuff then don't get a dog. Just my two cents. Good luck.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

> Your Opinion on Herm Sprenger Neck Tech Prong Collars?


I think I would go with the conventional HS pinch collar with the quick release clip. The neck tech version looks like it could be a pain in the butt to get it on and off the dog.


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## Beach_Bums (Aug 18, 2016)

Oh Mumford is defiantly not a robot. I help a trainer in the area teach puppy classes because her business is doing so well she is able to hire me for that. I always train a dog with treats first and never correct til I know they know what I am asking and I never correct puppies. And when owner tell me that they dont like how their puppies shed, mouth, arent potty trained, dont stay or down for long period of time at 10 or 12 weeks old, i think to myself well then you probably should have gotten a stuffed animal rather than a sentient being. Mumford is able to look around but when he follows his nose sniffing the air sometimes he pulls every so slightly to the side and I have fallen several times because of it. 

I had an experience the other day when I was at the store practicing with him and shopping when another "service dog" walked past him and then tried to attack him. I did not correct him one bit for breaking position and running behind me to protect him from a stand stay. I want this job to be fun for him, i want him to love being with me as much as i love him being with me. I understand that he is a dog and I do not expect him to be perfect I know I am not. 

I hope it didn't come off like i expected that. 


Swampcollie i thought that too but i read that the quick releases came apart while walking sometimes. Have you ever heard anything about that?


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## Beach_Bums (Aug 18, 2016)

Oh Mumford is defiantly not a robot. I help a trainer in the area teach puppy classes because her business is doing so well she is able to hire me for that. I always train a dog with treats first and never correct til I know they know what I am asking and I never correct puppies. And when owner tell me that they dont like how their puppies shed, mouth, arent potty trained, dont stay or down for long period of time at 10 or 12 weeks old, i think to myself well then you probably should have gotten a stuffed animal rather than a sentient being. Mumford is able to look around but when he follows his nose sniffing the air sometimes he pulls every so slightly to the side and I have fallen several times because of it. 

I had an experience the other day when I was at the store practicing with him and shopping when another "service dog" walked past him and then tried to attack him. I did not correct him one bit for breaking position and running behind me to protect him from a stand stay. I want this job to be fun for him, i want him to love being with me as much as i love him being with me. I understand that he is a dog and I do not expect him to be perfect I know I am not.

I hope it didn't come off like i expected that. 


Swampcollie i thought that too but i read that the quick releases came apart while walking sometimes. Have you ever heard anything about that?


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## 3181wly (Nov 22, 2015)

BB, you did not come off that way at all. I was just responding that you shouldn't be overly concerned about a SD being a dog. Use a prong collar if you think needed for training, but I wouldn't leave it on him all the time. I like the way you trained your dog to get behind you so quickly. My SD does the same thing, but I don't have the whole thing down yet. Yes, I can still stand just fine, although walking in a straight line is not in the cards, so if Doc doesn't do perfectly it doesn't really impact me very much. Now, if I were to fall down that would be a different issue. My day will come, but falling down will be the least of my issues by then. You sound like a person who knows far more than I do about SDs, so we should be listening to some of your wisdom. Just saying.


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## Beach_Bums (Aug 18, 2016)

BillBRNC You are too kind! I love the name Doc too. If you ever have any questions about anything at all, I would love to help in anyway that I can. from what I can gather Doc seems to be an awesome partner. A lot of my training is based around Micheal Elise's teaching system. I am not a master by any means and i am so lucky to have a dog that has a great temperament as well as another service dog for him and I to learn from.


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## 3181wly (Nov 22, 2015)

No expert here, but I think temperament is number one, and calm is the main part of temperament. Without this, I think it almost impossible to have a functional SD, at least that is what I think. Doc is very calm, but I'm hoping he gets even better as he gets more comfortable with me. It takes time they tell me, so I will give it all the time I've got. Heck, I'm a 65 and my body is falling apart, so there isn't much else for me to do. Doc has given me a whole new perspective, and that is worth more than anything. Good luck to all of us.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

You could get something like this, hidden from the public and easy on/off

Lola Limited ? Secret Powers


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Only thing I can say is get a nice prong collar through a training club or somebody associated with a training club.

The prong I have is meant to fit high up behind the jaw and ears and not slide down. It also has very short prongs compared to the cheap knock offs you get at the pet stores. 

Also - I only use training collars when actively training for something very specific. And be fair and attentive when training so your dogs actually learn that walking nice is rewarding and more comfortable than pulling.


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## Pipersmom (Aug 2, 2016)

Beach_Bums said:


> Hey Guys!
> My puppy Mumford and I are a service Dog and Handler team! I am so grateful for him everyday he helps me live a normal life and he is the best thing that has ever happened to me. For the past year we have been training everyday with a Halti.... I took months trying to get him used to it using Positive Reinforcement. I have never once corrected him with a leash pop or anything but even after a year he hates it. He will not do his tasks nor can he if he is wearing it. and if he has the chance he still tries to pull out of it.
> 
> Because of my disability I do not have a lot of strength in my body and I am probably going to get a lot of hate for this post but for others out there who use Prong Collars as a training tool, who have done a lot of research, and who have it fitted properly. Do any of you have the Herm Sprenger Neck Tech Prong Collar. I am wondering if 1. It is effective? 2. Has it affected your dogs hair by cutting it?
> ...


I have used a prong and have had great success with it. In fact my dog is excited to see it: it means we're heading out. I've only had one comment about it while I was out with my dog. My question for the person that didn't like the collar was: well, where is your dog? My dog is out and about participating in life because she has training and I have tools to help make sure she behaves and we are both comfortable. it's pleasurable for her and me to bring her along. Where's your dog?


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## 3181wly (Nov 22, 2015)

Loisiana said:


> You could get something like this, hidden from the public and easy on/off
> 
> Lola Limited ? Secret Powers



Loisiana, just wondering, what length prongs would you use on a GR with a medium coat? Thanks.


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## 3181wly (Nov 22, 2015)

While I was opposed to prong collars, I like to think I can learn something. I can see where Doc and I both could benefit from using one on a very limited time for training specific things. This will help him learn more quickly, and the learned task probably will stay with him much longer. I doesn't look so much like pain, as a true attention getter, not unlike pulling hard on a leash. Pulling hard on a leather collar probably does more potential harm that very limited use of a prong. I don't know, but you guys have me rethinking.


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## Beach_Bums (Aug 18, 2016)

My trainer last night said that a 3 mm prong for a dog Mumford's size is perfect he is 65 pounds. He said that I should look for a herm sprenger. even though they are more expensive they work a lot more smoothly than other brands giving more even pressure. There is a lot of good information on Youtube from trainers like Tyler Muto about how to get started. I also found a copy of Leash skills with Michael Ellis that had really great information.


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## Beach_Bums (Aug 18, 2016)

I would also look up information about the correct placement and fit. Leerburg online has some great information


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## migs (Nov 8, 2013)

*Herm Sprenger is the only *prong collar you should use if you decide to use one. 

The Sprenger that I have has a custom built loop(that attaches to the prongs & to the leash) that is made in leather so that the pull & release from the leash is always smooth and will never kink, bind or get stuck. My boys trainer customs makes them & puts them on for all the dogs he trains and returns your Sprenger back with it. If you would like one, message me & I can provide his contact information. 

And YES, the fit needs to be high and snug. Up by their jaw line. NOT AROUND THE NECK.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Beach_Bums said:


> My trainer last night said that a 3 mm prong for a dog Mumford's size is perfect he is 65 pounds.


I think that's too big, I use the 2.25 (small) sized links. I get mine from here so it's easy to get on and off. Herm Sprenger prong collars with side release, quick release buckle|Leashes by Design


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## Pipersmom (Aug 2, 2016)

I had help from a trainer with my first prong. A professional trainer (a GOOD professional trainer) is invaluable.


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## migs (Nov 8, 2013)

Took a picture of the leather loop i have on my sprenger that makes the pull & release smooth and kink free i was mentioning above.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Have to respond...

I do not use prong collars - I used to but no longer feel the need.

my dogs (4 goldens) are out & about a lot. They do not pull or lunge and compete in rally, obedience & agility. They hike, bike and walk with me - on flat collars.

My point? Please do not try to imply dogs not trained with prongs are not as well trained as dogs trained with prong collars.

To the OP, if you choose a prong, you have been given excellent advice. I would add that prong collars are typically called self correcting collars; that is you do not snap the leash/collar but rather let the dog correct themself.


Pipersmom said:


> I have used a prong and have had great success with it. In fact my dog is excited to see it: it means we're heading out. I've only had one comment about it while I was out with my dog. My question for the person that didn't like the collar was: well, where is your dog? My dog is out and about participating in life because she has training and I have tools to help make sure she behaves and we are both comfortable. it's pleasurable for her and me to bring her along. Where's your dog?


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## Beach_Bums (Aug 18, 2016)

I apologize if my thread has made anyone feel that if they do not use a prong collar that their dog is not well trained. I originally started the post because i needed a different training tool with my own SD. I truly believe that you should teach a dog using positive methods. I need the self correcting power that a prong provides for my dog for sniffing as a SD. and i hope to one day transition to a harness. My dog is still young and i want to be a great ambassador for other service dogs that come to an establishment after me. I work very hard everyday to train my dog and i know others do too. Please do not feel that I believe others aren't working as hard as I am.


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## Pipersmom (Aug 2, 2016)

Sunrise said:


> Have to respond...
> 
> I do not use prong collars - I used to but no longer feel the need.
> 
> ...


I was not trying to imply dogs not trained with prong collars are not well trained. 
I'm simply saying that my dog is well trained and when I got negative feedback from a stranger on an outing based simply on my collar choice I explained that this is what works for my dog and her dog was nowhere in sight.
I have trained dogs with a buckle collar, a gentle leader, and one never wore anything but a harness. Ive also used an e collar when training for herding. 
every dog is different and so is every person and every situation. I don't think there should be a stigma on any training device that is used correctly.


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