# My Golden won't retrieve, won't play 'tug'



## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

She sounds "soft" like my Jasper is. He does not play with me, per se. He will not mouth at me, he is not big on retrieving, but he does love to carry. If I push him at all rather than making it fun for him, he will shut down in an instant. I thought about training him to be an assistance dog for my husband, but he is afraid to carry the remote or the phone, and sure would not open the fridge, so that one is out the door.

Maybe with professional training it will work with her. My husband doesn't need an assistance dog yet, so we won't need to go that route with Jasper.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

bumping up for more opinions


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## Allie (Nov 30, 2008)

YES! Allie will carry things for me, but with LOTS of encouragement.. like 'good carry, good hold it' 'good girl' all in a higher pitched voice. Strange... and I can only train her when she gets that goofy Golden look in her eyes, and her tongue hanging out.

Strange. I wonder if a professional could bring some more out with her.

I catch her playing with toys, but when I do, she stops. She does help with 'brace' and helps me up, and I know she will do fine with my walking and my balance issues, but I really hoped she would do just a bit more.. She is a doll and this isn't a deal breaker for me. I wanted a sweet dog, and that she is.


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## Allie (Nov 30, 2008)

Thanks, here is a picture of my Allie. Since I picked her up two months ago, she has lost that scared look in her eyes, her tail isn't permanently tucked between her legs. She is coming out of her shell. She is just a sweetie pie!


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

I just remembered there is a golden retriever group here that might be able to help you. http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/group.php?groupid=13


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## Allie (Nov 30, 2008)

*Here is the only pic of Allie*

Here is the picture I have of Allie. My camera is under warranty being worked on.


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## Allie (Nov 30, 2008)

Just went to that link. Hopefully we can bring some more activity there. I joined. I wonder if there are more self-trainers out here?


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

She is a very pretty girl! Maybe with some self confidence building she will do more and more for you. Good luck!


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## jnmarr (Mar 7, 2008)

My dogs are soft, too. Very trainable.. but soft. It is hard to really know what might help without watching her. How old is she? I imagine her past was pretty boring.. Establishing a strong bond with you is really important. I believe it is important for a Golden to play .. and everyone agrees exercise is needed, also. I fostered a one year old dog purchased for a handsome fee from a pet store.. he was " on sale " because he had outgrown his cage at 16 weeks! The lady that bought him kept him in a crate most of the time, and when she did let him out she just put him in the yard..So he just sat by the door, then peed when he came back in the house. He had developmental issues.. would stumble when he ran, was wobbly and would tire quickly. We slowly built him up and he is a wonderful loving boy now, in a very good home. I would think upbeat, short sessions that are more like play would be in order.. a lot of exercise, grooming and affection. Looks for things she does right.. praise like crazy to build her self esteem. You will see the pride in her eyes. Wishing you all the best! Oh and she is a cutie pie!


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## John_NY (Nov 19, 2008)

Lambert is also a rescue and has some of the same issues. He loves to retrieve tennis balls but won't tug and seems to not know what to do with toys. His foster mom thought that he probably had never even seen a toy before he was rescued. He is starting to come out of his shell a bit now and just tonight spent some time with his Kong. Maybe it will just take some time. Who knows what these dogs have been through. Good luck with Allie.


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

If I understand you have only had her for a couple of months?
Youre still honeymooning  and building your relationship - patience...

Is she foody at all?
Are you feeding on a 2x daily schedule?
Does she show any interest in things like a toy being dragged on a string...


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## Bogart'sMom (Sep 16, 2005)

Have you thought about clicker Training her? My dog learned to pick up anything that's on the ground when I tell him to take it through clicker training. He also is very unconfrontational and he is a pleaser. Try to find a good clicker trainer in your area and i bet they can get your dog to pick up the item after she understands how the clicker and the game with the clicker works. 
All the best, I bet you'll get her to work for you.
Elke


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## Allie (Nov 30, 2008)

Liberty? She wasn't very food driven, she would just turn up her nose and walk away. Even for praise she wasn't driven.
Now she is showing signs of being a 'foody' and also she loves the praise that she gets.
I do try to make it fun. I can tell really quick when she is tiring of the training, and because of her past, I won't go past the 'fun' stage. I don't want to turn her off. I guess I didn't realize how much harm that was done to her by them ignoring her.

Bogart's Mom? I have used clicker training on a previous dog, but it's been years since I have used that technique. I was reading up on it. Allie is a bright girl and really wants to please.

John_NY? How is Lambert doing? Rescues are rewarding, but a lot of hard work. I am glad that I did it this way. I identify with the rescues, that's why I always go for them. 

jnmarr? That dog was just paying her back. Smart dog. Some people shouldn't be dog owners! I swear!

Foster's mom.. I get stopped all the time! People love her color, and she really is well mannered. But I do have concerns that her good manners are just shyness. She really aims to please and looks me in the eye. I like that in a dog. I know she is trying her best to understand.

Thanks all. I just wish that I could understand her side of things. Like how she was treated.. and why she acts the way she does.

anymore ideas??


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## jnmarr (Mar 7, 2008)

It is possible she was treated badly.. or just neglected or ignored... it is also possible she is just soft.. or shy by nature and was never allowed to play or even have toys. Keep bonding with her.. Remember, dogs live in the present.. as we should. She will learn to trust you. How old is she? A clicker is a good idea.. any time she does something good click and give a morsel of something really great.. maybe a piece of boiled chicken. She will learn and her confidence will grow. Remember, dogs don't speak English... use the same word for a behavior you want so she will learn quickly.


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

Add an oral check up to your list...
How do her teeth line up? Any missing teeth? A poor bite can make retrieving unpleasant...
Any sores in her mouth?
Is her gumline red and/or inflamed?

You probably already have done all this but give her a really good vet check-up testing for tick borne diseases...anemia...thyroid disease etc...

I think you are right-on to keep herr sessions really short and up beat...
Becareful with your facial expressions and body language...she is studying you all the time (more so becuase the relationhship is so new)...and looking for what triggers a positive reaction and a negative reaction...sometimes a drop in your shoulders, clench in your jaw or quick furrow in your forehead can be as discouraging as a sigh or a 'no' for very sensitive dogs.


'Clicker training' is often a wonderful confidence booster.......
I would start with attention training (initially a head turn toward you and then more and more sustained eye contact)...so when she is uncertain she will look to you for direction....

If there is something that she knows well (like sit) - Clicker train for that too (even though she knows it well). You can have her sit in a shallow box...on top of a short sturdy box...in a hula hoop...on bubble wrap...on a flat piece of cardboard...on a bathmat etc...
The exercise is to help solidify a trusting relationship by taking advantage of a skill she already knows well and feels confident performing...


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I'm with fostermom on this one.
My boy is what they call "soft" and a trainer told me recently, STOP saying that about him. He's not "soft" and there's no such thing in a dog.
Now hear me out...
The dog is not soft, he (or she in your case) is insecure! Some dogs, like mine and yours, if they are not 1000% sure what you want will just "shut down" rather than risk being wrong. They just won't do anything rather than make a mistake.
That sounds exactly like what your girl is doing with you, especially because you said she stops playing with a toy if you "catch her". She's not sure that's going to be acceptable to you, so she just stops. 
When you view it from that perspective I think it helps you train her. EVERY time you catch her doing the slightest thing that makes you happy, praise praise praise, like jnmarr says. She's looking for guidance from you, is this right? am I doing something that pleases you??
Break every single task down into it's parts. If you want her to retrieve, she's the type of dog that you will have to start out with her on a leash, and just gently lead her over to the item to be retrieved (start with just one), all the while being sooo silly and happy! (Are you ready?? Let's go! Let's go! Let's go see! What a GOOOD girl you are!) . Praise and reward her just for going with you over to the item.
When she's very very comfortable with that and happily accompanies you to the item, it might be time to introduce having her hold it. You will probably have to pick it up and give it to her. Tons of praise just for showing an interest in it by touching it with her nose. She will learn that you're real excited that she's just interested in looking at it. She's thinking, "hey, I can do this!"
Next is the actual taking of it. You might have to open her mouth and put it in. Again, tons and tons of praise.
I think you get the point here. With an insecure dog, a task like "retrieve" is overwhelming. You need to break it down into its component parts and tackle each one. Walking to it. Looking at it. Picking it up. Holding it. Returning with it, and so on.
It will take a lot of patience on your part and lots of loving praise, but it seems from your post that you love her lots and are willing to do just that!
Good luck!
Oh, and BTW, I still say my boy is SOFT


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

oh, I should have said although you probably know, when you break it down into its component parts, don't try to tackle more than one part at a time, probably for a WEEK to be sure she's really secure and happy doing it!


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## Allie (Nov 30, 2008)

I have looked at her mouth, her teeth seem good. Her gumline looks good. I take her into the vet today for bloodwork.
She gets spayed tomorrow. No more babies for my little girl! 

Allie is about 2 YO, and there isn't vet records on her.

Would you recommend putting a 'good' smell on the item I want her to pick up? Like say cooked hamburger grease, or maybe fish oil capsules?? Just asking I want her to equate the item I want her to pick up with a good thing, or would just the load of praise be sufficient?

And yes I think that she is wanting praise and when I do watch her playing with the toy, I don't even want to interrupt her because she is BEING a dog. I really want her to be comfy with me, and with being a dog.

I will have to print some of this out. I do think she is a special little girl, and I can do this. I think she has read some negative energy. She does watch me carefully for response.

I have taken her to Petsmart, let her pick out her toy.. I started with small toys, bought two identical, with squeakers, and let her play with those. She has got the squeaker out of one, and she seems to like them. I had hoped to attach a small toy to my keys, so she would attach some value to the keys, and pick them up. But now I believe I am on the wrong track. Well, not the wrong track, I do want her to play with toys, but the association was wrong. Keys should be keys, and toys, well toys.

I have to say, you guys are really helpful. Rescues are rewarding. I really feel I won the jackpot with Allie. She is absolutely wonderful, and I have more time than money to spend with her. So you are right, I am right person to train her. She is responsive, but she does shut down when the training sessions are too long.
She likes hard boiled eggs, chicken and seafood. I hope that isn't wrong to give her seafood. That's a high value item, and I taught her to roll over with seafood, and she had fun with that. She got a little grabby though.. 

I think I will do the clicker training.. what is strange and bad timing on my part, I had a clicker, but I tossed it out like a few months back, thinking I wouldn't need it ever again. Blah!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I would just go with praise, not food, on something you want her to pick up. Food is a reward, not a bribe.


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## cody (Dec 10, 2007)

Clicker training can really help in task training to clarify what you want. Break the retrieve down into small parts with one object, then another, then work on having it be whatever you are asking for. 

You didnt mention if the trainer you are working with is experienced with service dogs at all. If the trainer is not I highly recommend that you find a trainer that is. I wasnt sure from your post if you are looking to be using this dog for public access or just at home. If it is just at home you could get by with a trainer who can help you break the tasks down, someone who has at least trained a few dogs to UD level in ob or something similar. If you are looking to do public access it gets much more complicated.


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## Allie (Nov 30, 2008)

Interesting point. I have a trainer coming into the house to help me train Allie.

He has only trained one other person with her service dog. I am still getting around ok, but my condition is progressive so I don't know how long it will be before I will need a wheelchair. I am doing my best to avoid that. 

Allie and I are already out in the public areas. We have flown together. Her manners are impeccable right now. Her ability to help me has been balance, and with brace to help me up.
I would like to train her to pick up things that I drop, hence the retrieve... and also with help so I don't throw myself into a huge pain flare by doing things that Allie could be trained to help me with, such as laundry.


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## JoelSilverman (Oct 21, 2008)

It sounds like you really need to teach her to retrieve, so I would recommend using these videos on my site. They're free and they work. If you have a problem and you find you can't do this, then you can hire a trainer to help you. 

There are 26 of them and they are all very positive. But you want to take it very slow. If you really take it step by step you can teach your dog in 1 to 3 weeks. 

I will tell you that there are many dogs I have trained to retrieve that originally never liked to pick things up or even have objects in their mouth. But it was amazing that they ended up having a great retrieve, and actually really got into it once it was trained.

One thing.. Even though down the road your dog is going to be picking up a variety of things, my suggestion would be to start with something easy to hold like I have in the videos. Once the behavior is trained with that, you can then move onto other objects.

http://www.companionsforlife.net/Retrieve_members1.html

Since I am back here nearly every few days, just message me if you have questions here! Good Luck!!


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## cody (Dec 10, 2007)

Allie said:


> Allie and I are already out in the public areas. We have flown together. Her manners are impeccable right now. Her ability to help me has been balance, and with brace to help me up.
> I would like to train her to pick up things that I drop, hence the retrieve... and also with help so I don't throw myself into a huge pain flare by doing things that Allie could be trained to help me with, such as laundry.


Since you are OTing the dog, the trainer should in reality be training you, not the dog. This means that you hand the trainer a list of tasks and the trainer will break them down into smaller portions and show you how to train the dog. 

If you have only had this dog a few months then it is too soon to be working out in public, unless you are specifically working on proofing public access skills and that should still be training sessions. Both you and the dog need to learn how to interact in public, that includes you being trained on how to "protect" your dog from children, rude people, friendly people who cant keep their hands off etc. There is a lot more to public access then just a dog with good manners. This is where working with an experienced SD trainer is crucial. The trainer needs to evaluate this dog's temperament for public access work. The dog also has to want to work for you. For some dogs this is simply too much stress. Being on duty is hard work, be careful that you are not pushing things too fast. OTing can actually take a lot longer than even waiting for a program dog.

If this comes across as harsh at all that is not my intent. I have however seen handlers that are kind of winging it with their SD, if/when something happens it makes it 100x harder for the team that comes behind you to deal with access.

Check out ADI and IAADP, if the trainer you are currently with isnt helping you they have a list of organizations by area and someone may be able to point you to someone who will assist with an OT dog.


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## Allie (Nov 30, 2008)

I have the list from IAADP, and made my list for the trainer, and yes he is working with me as well as with Allie. HOWEVER, he has only trained one other service dog team. I found the website from IAADP the better one.

I also had a professional local service dog 501 c 3 evaluate Allie. Her temperament is perfect for this kind of job. I know that appearances, and first impressions are created by me and Allie. There are many that have never seen a service dog team. In this case, I give them just enough information in regards to my own condition that made me seek a service dog. It is not required by law (ADA)to provide the reason why I need a service dog. There is also federal standard and individual states are coming up with their own standards with infringing on civil rights. 
I have reviewed state law regarding service dogs, the laws about 'faking' needing a service dog. And yes there are some that would do that. There are laws in place, but not consistent state to state.


Joel? I can't view the clips on your website. I get the pop-up window with 'untitled document' and nothing on the clip. Nothing at all.
I have a MacBook, would this make a difference?

Can someone that has a Mac tell me if they have trouble viewing Joel's clips on his website, and if so, how you handled it so you could view them.

thanks so much!


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## SoGolden (Jul 17, 2008)

*Cody, Join Our Social Group*



cody said:


> Since you are OTing the dog, the trainer should in reality be training you, not the dog. This means that you hand the trainer a list of tasks and the trainer will break them down into smaller portions and show you how to train the dog.
> 
> If you have only had this dog a few months then it is too soon to be working out in public, unless you are specifically working on proofing public access skills and that should still be training sessions. Both you and the dog need to learn how to interact in public, that includes you being trained on how to "protect" your dog from children, rude people, friendly people who cant keep their hands off etc. There is a lot more to public access then just a dog with good manners. This is where working with an experienced SD trainer is crucial. The trainer needs to evaluate this dog's temperament for public access work. The dog also has to want to work for you. For some dogs this is simply too much stress. Being on duty is hard work, be careful that you are not pushing things too fast. OTing can actually take a lot longer than even waiting for a program dog.
> 
> ...


Cody - please consider joining our social group. This is exactly the kind of exchange of information I was hoping to see posted in our group. What is your background with SDs?
http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/group.php?groupid=13


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## Allie (Nov 30, 2008)

I just want to mention here, that I have trained dogs before I had brain surgery. Before I was disabled. Allie IS trained. She is a very good dog. What I am working on is the fine tuning.

I understood what I was getting into before I did this.. My job in my previous life was one where I was very well aware of ADA and disabilities, and of course service dogs. 
The only "problem" I am having with Allie is the 'retrieve' and of course what I consider normal play for a dog. She is entirely devoted to me and aims to please.

Thanks for the great ideas, and I continue to research.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

I am really looking forward to hearing about Allie's success with you, because I can tell you have the right attitude and patience and committment to teach her everything you need her to do!

Please let us know how she progresses!


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## Allie (Nov 30, 2008)

Thanks for your kind words mylissyk. I like dogs, and I feel pretty fortunate to have Allie. We seem to be a good fit. When I was evaluated with Allie by the service dog non-profit, they said you should have a dog with an energy level about one notch below your own. Allie is about that.

Joel, I want to thank you for your website. I finally got it to work. If you have other Mac users that have problems, make sure that they are using Firefox versus Safari. There's a bit of kink with Safari. I can now view the 'retrieve' clips with no problem.
Thanks again for all the work you put into making those. I look forward to Allie retrieving shortly!


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