# Puppy raw fed, is there concern with DCM?



## TanyaK (Mar 10, 2018)

I lost my almost eleven year old girl to DCM five months ago. It was heart breaking and still is. I really spiralled after losing her. She wa my world. I did not plan on getting another dog for at least a year or two. But I was in a bad place...very depressed ...etc..

I called to place my name on a breeders list because I knew she had long wait times. After she heard my story she expressed she had a couple back out of one of her puppies. And she had one available if I wanted. I initially said I wasn't ready. But I ended going to meet the little guy and ended up taking him home. He has blessed me with joy and happiness and has lifted me emotionally from my dark place. I still miss Maggie and still find myself tearing up ....but Griffin my new puppy definreoy rescued me from a dark place. 

My question is ....I did a lot of research and am a part of the taurine def group on FB etc. But this puppy is fed raw. This breeder has show dogs living till they are 16 years old. 

I am wondering is it ok to give him raw. I can not go through another loss of a dog through DCM. I know I give him raw food with veggies and fruit. I do not make the raw meat part of his diet but I do supply the fruit and veggie aspect (this part I make) I also add fish oil, probiotics, and Carnicore earth greens powder and earth origins powder. 

I have read as long as I am providing four different raw meats weekly changing it up he will get his Taurine. 

Can I get others thoughts ?

Thank you kindly.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Bumping up


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

In General there shouldn't be any issues feeding a good raw food. I feed a raw food that is about 95% raw meat and 5% fruits and veggies with no legumes should not have any issue on low taurine related DCM. Taurine is an amino acid that comes from meat protein and not plant protein but is destroyed in the high heat of the cooking process of the meat. This is why they need to add back in taurine to a cooked food like kibble. Where you can come into an issue POTENTIALLY is if there are a good amount of Legumes in the diet or high in the ingredient list as there is thought that it can inhibit taurine absorption, but in general you should not have an issue with good levels of taurine in a raw food. You also don't have to used 4 meats a week for taurine. Raw meat will have it naturally. Changing the meats helps with avoiding developing allergies but I wouldn't rotate them that often. I would use 2 meats a month and rotate to a couple others.


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## Berna (Jun 14, 2016)

From what I understood, legumes is the problem, so if you don't feed legumes you will be fine.


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## jeffscott947 (Jun 9, 2019)

Berna said:


> From what I understood, legumes is the problem, so if you don't feed legumes you will be fine.



My read was that it's when Legume protein is used to replace animal protein in dog foods, that a problem MIGHT occur.
Even dogfoodadvisor.com notes this when legumes are present in his protein analysis!


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Join a raw feeding facebook group and do some more research so you feel more comfortable. Raw isn't a problem but it does take work to make sure the balance is correct - the raw blend you buy may need to have organ meat supplemented - read the labels and check it out. I think you will feel better about it if you do some research. 

I am so glad that you have Griffin in your life, there is nothing to help us focus on the future like a new puppy. Maggie would be glad to know that you're expanding your heart. We would love to see photos of Griffin, maybe you should start a thread for him and introduce him to the group


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## gold4me (Mar 12, 2006)

Sounds like your little guy has been a blessing in your life. That is wonderful. Some of the meats have a higher taurine level than others. Lamb is very low. Organ meat and dark meat seem to have a higher level and Turkey and chicken are good. I think there is a chart on the FB group files that tells about what food have a higher level of taurine.


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

jeffscott947 said:


> My read was that it's when Legume protein is used to replace animal protein in dog foods, that a problem MIGHT occur.
> Even dogfoodadvisor.com notes this when legumes are present in his protein analysis!



Sorta. It's when they put (for example) 24% protein on the bag. It's how much of the protein comes from plant sources instead of animal sources. You're always going to have a certain amount of non-animal protein sources. Corn, Brown Rice, Soy, Wheat, Potato among the legumes all register with a good amount of plant protein. Plus the legumes are suspected of actually inhibiting the absorption of taurine. So there are too many facets to this as of now. Too many involved with the investigation and putting out only partial truths and information as it's not a finished investigation.



I wish they would say what percentage of protein a food should should have that is derived from animal sources, if that is something they are starting to focus on (how much animal protein vs plant protein is need) For example There used to be a food called Innova Evo that had 88% of it's protein from animal sources. I know that was extremely high as most foods are well below that. If could a good way to look at this going forward.


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## Sandy Mysak (Nov 18, 2019)

TanyaK said:


> I lost my almost eleven year old girl to DCM five months ago. It was heart breaking and still is. I really spiralled after losing her. She wa my world. I did not plan on getting another dog for at least a year or two. But I was in a bad place...very depressed ...etc..
> 
> I called to place my name on a breeders list because I knew she had long wait times. After she heard my story she expressed she had a couple back out of one of her puppies. And she had one available if I wanted. I initially said I wasn't ready. But I ended going to meet the little guy and ended up taking him home. He has blessed me with joy and happiness and has lifted me emotionally from my dark place. I still miss Maggie and still find myself tearing up ....but Griffin my new puppy definreoy rescued me from a dark place.
> 
> ...


If you have lost one dog to DCM I can understand your concerns about choosing the right food for your puppy. If you are going to feed raw have a Veterinary Nutritionist formulate the diet for you, as dogs eating raw have been diagnosed with DCM. I feed all the foods causing DCM and my dogs heart was affected by this disease. My dog now eats Royal Canin Golden Retriever her heart health is improving in regards to DCM, but she also was diagnosed with Mitral Valve Disease on her second echo. I occasionally will add a topper of sardines or raw chicken hearts or hard boiled eggs to her food.


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## Jmcarp83 (May 4, 2018)

I recently switched to a 50/50 diet. Morning is kibble because it’s easier; however, evening is Gently cooked raw to help one senior dog digest easier. It’s a mixture of meat/organ meat/bone broth. Low on veggies. All organic/grassfed poultry or beef. They also get organic blueberries. I generally switch it up between turkey and beef. My vet also recommended scooping in some RX Pet Essentials Vitamins too.


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## Aidan0311 (Jun 12, 2019)

All this is really confusing and I guess from reading here, is still being investigated. I’m about to switch from puppy food to adult soon as Aidan is almost 9 months now. I heard somewhere that chicken wasn’t as digestible as the other proteins. Does anyone know if that’s true? Is one protein better than another? The adult food I’m planning on switching him to has New Zealand lamb, chicken, chicken meal, and salmon meal with a total of 26% protein. I wish it would get figured out soon as I want to at least do whatever I can to keep him healthy.


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

Aidan0311 said:


> All this is really confusing and I guess from reading here, is still being investigated. I’m about to switch from puppy food to adult soon as Aidan is almost 9 months now. I heard somewhere that chicken wasn’t as digestible as the other proteins. Does anyone know if that’s true? Is one protein better than another? The adult food I’m planning on switching him to has New Zealand lamb, chicken, chicken meal, and salmon meal with a total of 26% protein. I wish it would get figured out soon as I want to at least do whatever I can to keep him healthy.


Lol the chicken digestibility thing is funny. Chicken is one of the most digestible meat proteins. It's why when the dogs have digestibility issues they tell you to feed chicken and rice. Red meat is one of the hardest to digest actually.

Lamb is high in Phosphorus (not the greatest) and also has one of the lowest levels of taurine in meat. I wouldn't use lamb as your base diet but a protein to rotate to once in awhile


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

Jmcarp83 said:


> I recently switched to a 50/50 diet. Morning is kibble because it’s easier; however, evening is Gently cooked raw to help one senior dog digest easier. It’s a mixture of meat/organ meat/bone broth. Low on veggies. All organic/grassfed poultry or beef. They also get organic blueberries. I generally switch it up between turkey and beef. My vet also recommended scooping in some RX Pet Essentials Vitamins too.


No such thing as gently cooked raw. Once you cook it at all, you destroy the majority of the reasons to feed raw. You lower and destroy nutrients and all the natural bacteria/enzymes. 

Adding in vitamins can lead excesses. Synthetic vitamins The body will try to absorb as much as it can. Truly raw food, the body makes what it needs and nothing more. So unlikely to have excesses. Things like vitamin A, if you give 100mg it will try to use as much as it can but with a raw carrot, the body takes the beta carotene and creates it's own vitamin A from that and discards the excess. If your travel food is correct, you don't need anything extra. This is very hard to do which is why I recommend commercially prepared raw food and now one you make yourself.


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## aesthetic (Apr 23, 2015)

The traditional 80/10/10 or 80/10/5/5 method of raw feeding is NOT a nutritionally complete or balanced diet. If you DIY your raw, please be aware of this. Liver is high in copper, but the bioavailability of copper in pork liver is very low whereas the bioavailability of copper in beef liver is high (and therefore you need very little beef liver to meet copper needs - less than the 10%). Rotating proteins in a raw diet doesn't guarantee that you meet the required amounts for each vitamin/mineral.

Premade raw brands like Nature's Variety Instinct, Stella & Chewys, or Primal, etc. are AAFCO approved and add the nutrients that are otherwise missing from following the PMR/BARF method.


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## Aidan0311 (Jun 12, 2019)

I thought that didn’t sound right, ha! I read it on a golden retriever FB group page.


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