# Allergies?



## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

Before we switched to Ultra, (made by Nutro), we fed Science Diet. Maddie did fine on it. But Linda told us to switch because Science Diet isn't that good for dogs. Which I'm a Novice dog owner, go figure!

Anyway, just a few weeks after we fed Maddie the Ultra, she started licking her feet. So I thought, ahh whatever, it can't be bad. But one night she was licking really bad, so I took a peek at her feet and they were RED. The bottoms were red. I didn't know what to do, so I called my parents in, and they took a look at them. They looked like they were bleeding...which I think they were, just a tad bit. I really can't tell you for sure, or the bottoms were just so red, it looked like it.

Could this be possible that it is allergies? 

If so, what *should* I be feeding her? 

Here are the ingredients in the food: Any ones I should be aware of??

Well, since I can't get it copied, here's the link:

Nutro Ultra Holistic Dog Food Products

Hope you can help!!


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

it definitely sounds like an allergy of some sort, feet biting/licking is a common sign of that. the most common allergy is to grains, but if you said she did fine on science diet, i doubt thats what it is. maybe she is allergic to chicken or lamb? i recommend trying a fish based food. i have used timberwolf organics ocean blue and Sam has done VERY well on it. there are several good fish formulas available though. i believe natures variety makes one as well.


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## ID_Hannah (Jun 8, 2006)

If Maddie didn't lick her feet before the foot switch I would be inclined to think food allergies too. 

The only other thing I can think of is... Have you had snow where you live already? Has Maddie been around any de-icers at home or when you're at obedience? These can be very irritating. Some dogs become a bit obsessive about getting snow in their toes too. 

Here's Science Diet Ingredients: 
Chicken, Ground Whole Grain Corn, Ground Whole Grain Sorghum, Ground Whole Grain Wheat, Chicken By-Product Meal, Soybean Meal, Animal Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Corn Gluten Meal, Brewers Rice, Chicken Liver Flavor, Soybean Oil, Dried Egg Product, Flaxseed, Potassium Chloride, Iodized Salt, Calcium Carbonate, Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), DL-Methionine, preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid, Beta-Carotene, Rosemary Extract.

Here's the Ultra: 
Chicken meal, brown rice, ground rice, lamb meal, rice bran, sunflower oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols, source of linoleic acid), poultry fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols, source of linoleic acid), salmon meal (natural source of dha), flaxseed (natural source of alpha-linolenic acid), natural flavors, oatmeal, alfalfa (natural source of chlorophyll), beet pulp, tomato pomace (natural source of lycopene), cranberry, fish oil (natural source of dha), dried egg product, l-lysine, kelp (natural source of iodine), taurine, bacillus lichenformis fermentation extract, bacillus subtilis fermentation extract, l-carnitine, glucosamine hydrochloride, chondroitin sulfate, garlic (natural source of selenium), marigold extract (natural source of lutein), potassium chloride, vitamin E supplement, zinc sulfate, zinc proteinate, choline chloride, ferrous sulfate, ascorbic acid (source of vitamin C), biotin, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, niacin, calcium iodate, calcium pantothenate, vitamin B12 supplement, riboflaven supplement (source of vitamin B2), vitamin A supplement, copper sulfate, pyridoxene hydrochloride (source of vitamin B6), copper proteinate, sodium selenite, vitamin D3 supplement, beta-carotene, menadione sodium complex (source of vitamin K activitiy), folic acid

From the differences in the products I doubt you're looking at a grain or chicken issue. 

Likely suspects? Well, this is one the reasons I dislike foods with a million ingredients, it will be hard to narrow it down. 
New meats: Lamb & Salmon. 
Oatmeal, alfalfa, tomato pomace, and kelp are new too. 

Honestly, if Maddie didn't have ANY issues on Science Diet, I'd switch her back to see if this really is a new food issue or something else bothering her feet. Some people (like your trainer) might not agree with that advice, but I think the most important thing is to get Maddie to stop licking her poor feet raw. If Science Diet does that, go back to it. Then you can start messing around with testing "better" foods to see what agrees with her. I wouldn't want to do food trials of this-and-that while she suffers, if you know that she won't be suffering on Science Diet. 

If she didn't do well on Science Diet, then forget that advice... and I would also recommend a food with few ingredients and a novel meat/carb source. Fish/potato, duck/potato, etc. 

Let us know how Maddie does!


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

I would find a rice free food. I use the Natural balance venison & sweet potato. It is rice free. It sounds like it might be the culprit. It is a high quality food. I find it at Petco. But like Hannah said i would put her back on the science diet to help clear up the problem.
Good luck


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

I personally am not so sold on going back to Science Diet. My parents have agreed not to go back to it. And I myself have agreed not to either.

I was talking to Lego & Jacub, in the chat room tonight, and they said that Innova is good too. What else is there that would be good? Sandra said she would PM me and tell me the other foods that are good.

On the snow issue, we had switched before snow ever occured, so I think that would be out of the picture. We are going to get this really neat spray to help her feet, because today I took her out in the snow and it was like the first 5 minutes, and her legs started shaking and then she laid down to clean them, poor baby.

Another question I have is, what food exaclty is free of grains, NONE at all??

Oh, got another one, what do you guys feel about reduced calorie dog foods? I've heard they act like "fillers", and don't fill them up, so their always hungry?

Any suggestions?


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## ID_Hannah (Jun 8, 2006)

If you're set on not going back to Science Diet, I would find an allergy formula. 

Innova is a good food. There are many "good" foods out there. But you have to remember that the food you're feeding her is a "good" food, but it's obviously not good for her. Any "good" food can have something that keeps irritating her allergies, because you don't know what's she's allergic to. 

Allergy formulas have One type of meat and One type of grain/carbohydrate. Like BeauShel said, Natural Balance has some good allergy formulas. They're always the ones I recommend because I've always had success with them. They're easy to find, every PetCo has them.

I prefer to not feed diet foods. I'd rather cut back on portions and add exercise. You can add some green beans for filler if a dog feels like they're starving because they're getting less quantity of food. The beans just make them feel fuller without a lot more calories.


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

I would reccomend going to Orijen 6 fish formula. It is very good for dogs with allergies.


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

the orijen 6 fish formula is also one of the most expensive kibbles out there.. there are tons of good allergy formulas out there that are easier to work into your (or your parents?) budget. the key is to find a food with as little ingredients as possible to reduce the risk of her being allergic to some random ingredient that you wouldnt even think of.

as far as grain free foods.. go to Dog Food Analysis - Reviews of kibble and check out the 6 star foods, those are all grain free i believe.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

I would recommend that instead of acting blindly you have the dog examined by the Vet. I would also suggest running a broad spectrum allergy panel (blood test) to see if allergies really are the problem. 

As far as foods go, if the dog was doing well on Science Diet, it makes logical sense to make that the first choice if you're going to switch foods.


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## Zookeepermama (Nov 12, 2007)

Im with the other folks about going back to science diet first to make sure that its a food issue and not something else. Dont worry, she wont keel over from it, just put her on it for a month or so to see if the licking stops. If it does then you know its food and can switch around to some of the other foods the folks listed here afterwards (I use Cannidae, its a 5 star rated food for the price of a bag of Iams or Science diet) If it doesnt stop, then you gotta start figuring out what hes allergic to. One of my dogs had allergies where his stomach, ears and any other exposed piece of skin turned beet red and he would lick til he bled. I took him to a allergy specialist, where they did the allergy panel and he was allergic to every plant, grass and weed known to man. A couple years on the shots and were allergy free pretty much. Just be aware, its costly. We paid about 300$ for a consultation, and then another 300$ every month for a couple years for the syrum (we gave the shots), plus 150$ once every couple months for checkups and this was about 6 years ago so Im sure inflation has it higher.


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

Swampcollie said:


> I would recommend that instead of acting blindly you have the dog examined by the Vet. I would also suggest running a broad spectrum allergy panel (blood test) to see if allergies really are the problem.
> 
> As far as foods go, if the dog was doing well on Science Diet, it makes logical sense to make that the first choice if you're going to switch foods.


I'm not being "blindly" about this. I just thought that the experts on here would be able to help me out on this one. I don't know if we have the money to do all sorts of blood tests done on her. Our vet sells Science Diet, so I'll call them tomorrow. I've also said I DON'T want to go back to it, it has WAY too much grains in it, and by-product.

Linda also told me some other foods too. She said go with the Natural Balance. Does anyone feed that though? She also said Wellness, I heard the CORE is really good. What should I do?


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Orijen, EVO and the new line of Natures Variety ( I think it's called Prairie) are grain free. When you're looking at the food labels, remember that they are listed in order of weight, so when you see a grain listed several times pretty high on the list, you can be assured that it's grain heavy.........perhaps even more than the listed meat (protein). There are several "tricks" the manufacturers use like that to make the product look healthier. I think you are right in NORT going back to the Science Diet.....yuck !


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

Lucky gets red itchy feet and ear infections when the weather is humid or wet. During the winter, he never has these issues so it seems for him its the external environmental conditions. The problem may not be food...and my suggestion would be to talk to your vet on the different things that can cause this type of things before you go through alot of unneccessary changes. Good Luck to you because I know this thing makes a dog real uncomfortable.


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## McSwede (Jan 30, 2007)

The best advice you have gotten and that which makes the most sense is to go back on science diet for awhile and see what happens. It's also your "cheapest" option since you don't want to have any blood work done. 

Don't get on the dog food merry-go-round. Your dog will be the one to suffer for it believe me. There is nothing wrong with Science Diet if it "works" for your dog.


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## ID_Hannah (Jun 8, 2006)

McSwede said:


> Don't get on the dog food merry-go-round. Your dog will be the one to suffer for it believe me. There is nothing wrong with Science Diet if it "works" for your dog.


Agreed , this is what I (and I think others) were trying to express. I would go back to Science Diet to clear up her symptoms. Then you can gradually try other new foods. 



CreekviewGoldens said:


> Linda also told me some other foods too. She said go with the Natural Balance. Does anyone feed that though?


Like I said in my post, I've used Natural Balance Allergy formulas (duck/potato, fish potato, venison/potato) very successfully dogs with allergies. I know there's several other posters on the board that have too.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

Here is the natural balance venison sweet potato. It is grain free. My dogs clean their bowls every meal.
Dick Van Patten's Natural Balance® L.I.D.™ Sweet Potato & Venison Formula For Dogs and Puppies


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

THANK YOU SO MUCH EVERYONE!! My first instinct was to check out this Natural Balance. But it had recall information on their treats. So I was setback by that, I should've done this but if it has NO GRAINS..I'd be more than happy to give it a whirl. I'll email them tonight for some brochures and free samples! Hey...who doesn't like FREE samples?


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## HoldensMom (Dec 3, 2007)

I'm hijacking again (I know, I know)

But about the Natural Balance... I started feeding that same formula (Venison and Sweet Potato)about a week ago, once I decided that I wanted to go grain free and single protein for the allergies. He's had some diarrhea and gas, which is to be expected with a food switch, but he's also had frequent and increased urination. That worries me... have any of you that still currently feed NB Venison had these problems? I didn't think increased urination was normal with food switches. 

Please tell me I'm not feeding contaminated food...


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

I feed Beau that food and he gained to much weight on it. I dont know why but I had to take him off it. I dont think it is contaminated but you may want to contact them and ask if there is something in there to make them drink more.


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

Well, I'm deleting this because I forgot I had already posted....saying basically the same thing.


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## 3 goldens (Sep 30, 2005)

I think I would also go back to the Science Diet for a short time and see if the licking stopped. Then check what was different in the foods and find a better food which lacked the ingredients that are suspected of causing the itches. If it is a contact allergy, switching foods will not help.

I think a lot of damage can be done by switching foods every couple of weeks. on the all breed forum, some switch every month or so even tho their dogs are doing great on the one they are one. The people switch because they read X brand is better, or their brand had a recall 10 yers ago, etc. I always say the grass that looks so much greener on the other side of the fence may actually be poison ivy!


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## Dogrunner (Feb 24, 2008)

You have my sympathy. Berr is allergic to barley, wheat, corn, rye, and alfalfa meal. 

How old is your dog? Berr's allergies kicked in when he was 2. He had been on Science Diet (I didn't know any better) and did fine and then one day turned into a golden itchy mess. 

We are currently switching from TWO (although he can still eat the Bison, the rest have alfalfa) to Taste of the Wild fish. He did great on the orginal formula of NB Venison and Rice (the one that was recalled) but by the time the new one came out, we had already switched to Timberwolf. 

Take the list of differences....I would worry least about the tomato pumice and rice (although allergies to those are possible, they are rare) and start reading ingredient lists  I go to petfooddirect.com and go thru their list of kibble and read everyone's ingredients--they have most of them and it's the fastest way I've found to begin researching brands. Good luck!!!


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## HoldensMom (Dec 3, 2007)

Dogrunner said:


> You have my sympathy. Berr is allergic to barley, wheat, corn, rye, and alfalfa meal.


Did you get Berr tested for allergies? Or are those just the ones you figured out with elimination? Holden's allergies seemed to kick in around 2 years old also. He has a vet apt on thursday for annuals and hip x-rays. I wanted to get him tested for allergies too and just do it all in one shot but the vet said they'd rather have a consult first to talk about it.  I really am thinking about just going back to the canidae lamb and rice and feeding less of it with some beans... i'm so tired of switching foods around (not to mention wasting money on them).


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## Dogrunner (Feb 24, 2008)

HoldensMom said:


> Did you get Berr tested for allergies? Or are those just the ones you figured out with elimination? Holden's allergies seemed to kick in around 2 years old also. He has a vet apt on thursday for annuals and hip x-rays. I wanted to get him tested for allergies too and just do it all in one shot but the vet said they'd rather have a consult first to talk about it.  I really am thinking about just going back to the canidae lamb and rice and feeding less of it with some beans... i'm so tired of switching foods around (not to mention wasting money on them).


I talked it over with my vet and she wasn't excited about testing him. There are apparently some problems with allergy testing (not completely accurate, is the impression I got), so I did a sort of elimination diet. I went from SD to Nature's Receipe Venison and Rice--still itched, so I switched to NB Venison and Rice. No itchies. So definitely barley. Bread made him itch--eliminate wheat. Corn kernals ditto. Treats made with rye flour, ditto. Canidae lamb and rice--major itchies...I thought it was the flaxseed (high on the list according to stuff I've read) but then he started itching on TWO's Ocean Blue. Doesn't itch on TWO's Dakota Bison. The difference? Alfalfa meal. Voila! So I buy treats made with rice flour and I think I've read every ingredient list on every brand of dog food made. We're switching to Taste of the Wild (the fish one) because TWO is now $61 for a 30 pound bag and I don't want to give up eating just so Berr doesn't itch :

The "easy" way, instead of switching from food to food to food is assume first that the most common allergens are the problem. I free feed the dogs and I've never had a real problem with anyone being overweight, except that Berr gained 10 pounds on NB's potato and duck. On the TWO, even though I'm still free feeding, he's lost about 6 of that (he's losing about a pound a month). And he eats the same amount....I'm thinking his system doesn't digest potatoes very well (or something ). Maybe a higher protein food would help yours lose weight.

I'm interested in hearing what your vet says about the allergy testing.


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## HoldensMom (Dec 3, 2007)

Alright... so we got Holden all checked out today. Hip x-rays looked good, so I feel OK taking him for hikes and maybe even runs! 

The vet said that the main allergist in the area doesn't like doing blood work, and she also said that her reasoning is that most of the food-related allergies won't show up as well on the blood test as the seasonal/external causes of allergies will (grass, fleas, pollen, etc.) He seems to be doing well on the no chicken. I'm also currently doing no grain, and would like to keep it that way, but I guess we'll just have to see.

He is still overweight though, so we may end up going on the wellness CORE ocean or another non-chicken, higher protein food to get the weight back off. He was doing so well before these stupid allergies


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## MILLIESMOM (Aug 13, 2006)

_I switch back and forth between Canidae or California Herring and Sweet potato. Millie and Pearl do fine on these foods. Millie does have a food allergy issue. I have never had her tested but anything with grain or corn makes her go nuts._


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