# Buying from first litter



## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

If the parents and all the dogs in the pedigree have their health clearances, and the pedigree does not show a lot of early death on either side, and you love the temperaments, it wouldn't be an issue for me at all. And if the breeder has been breeding for years, then I wouldn't worry at all. I actually had to stop and think about whether either of my pups came from first litters (both came from second litters), so it was obviously not a factor for me. I'll be interested to hear what others say.


----------



## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

I cannot imagine why a puppy from a first litter would be an issue, at all. Am I missing something? What difference does it make?

I believe that both of my current show dogs came from first litters, and Ziva's babies from her first litter are now 4 weeks old. What is the issue?


----------



## TheZ's (Jun 13, 2011)

If you've met the breeder, both parents, like the temperaments and appearance of sire and dam, all recommended health clearances are in place and you like the pedigree, I'd say go for it. You aren't providing a nonrefundable deposit are you?

eta: I think each of our 3 Goldens came from their dam's first litter.


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

First or last litter that a bitch produces, does not matter as far as quality. As long as what others have said that both parents are 2 years or older and have their full health certifications for hips, elbows, eyes (annually) and heart by Cardiologist. 

Is there a specific concern?


----------



## GoldenDude (Nov 5, 2016)

One of my Goldens was a puppy rescue. He was from the dam's 10th litter. I wouldn't recommend that. But, I'd think first litter wouldn't be a problem, assuming the dam is at least two years old.


----------



## Buddy1 (Feb 11, 2017)

Health clearances are good. I had read somewhere not buy first litter because you don't what you are getting. Breeder has been in business 23 years a retired school teacher has dogs on farm went there to visit also talked to people that have some of his dogs. Everyone gave high reviews. Only wants a 200 deposit but not until puppies are born. There will be 2 litters this spring. On one list from a female that has had previous litters I would be 3rd male pick. On the litter from females first which will be a little later I would be 1st pick. I would love to have first pick because I really want best temperament and health. This will be a family pet.


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

I just want to clarify as verifying health certifications is not easy and you said health is important to you. Did you get the potential parents registered names and verify to see all the health certifications are on Orthopedic Foundation for Animals?

If you need a hand, you can post the names here and almost magically the OFA links will be shared for you to review. :wink2:

Honestly, dogs on the farm is not a good bet for actual health certifications.


----------



## Buddy1 (Feb 11, 2017)

The farm references was more about environment being good. Yes breeder has shared clearances. Plus we have family members that use to work with him and he is a good person that has breed for health and temperament. I trust the breeder. I was looking for some expert opinion on first litters. So would you all go for being the first pick?


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

I did understand that you were shown something by the breeder. My question was did you independently verify it. Any computer savvy person can create a health clearance or vet check paper. The question about looking in OFA is that OFA is the place to verify those claims and documents are accurate. 

So, if health certifications are not important to you, then just pick which ever would make you happier. 1st or 3rd pick is not going to make heath or temperament different, only the breeders research and goals when picking parents will. 

Why can't you be both? If there are not 3 boys in the first litter what happens? What if the other litter is all girls?


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Buddy1 said:


> Health clearances are good. I had read somewhere not buy first litter because you don't what you are getting. Breeder has been in business 23 years a retired school teacher has dogs on farm went there to visit also talked to people that have some of his dogs. Everyone gave high reviews. Only wants a 200 deposit but not until puppies are born. There will be 2 litters this spring. On one list from a female that has had previous litters I would be 3rd male pick. On the litter from females first which will be a little later I would be 1st pick. I would love to have first pick because I really want best temperament and health. This will be a family pet.


First or last, makes no difference. And when do you ever get more than an indication of what dog you will get? I'm not so sure if this breeder owns both sire and dam though- the best dog for any girl is rarely owned by the same person. Typically the sort of breeder that breeds own stud to own bitch and then lets buyers choose their own puppy is not going to the full complement of the core 4 clearances, not prelims but real clearances. That's not always true, but often is. You need to be concerned that there may not be enough of your gender choice in the first litter, but at the same time, I don't see why the breeder wouldn't let you be 'backup' person on the earlier litter if it suited you better. You should also know that in the world of true 'picks' for purpose, say conformation, two people can actually get their first pick puppy. There's room for style and type within a litter so that the puppy that I would choose for my pick may not be your pick.


----------



## Pilgrim123 (Jul 26, 2014)

Even the best bitches in the land, the ones with the most desirable progeny and the most influence on the breed, had to have a first litter sometime!


----------



## CnCFusion (Feb 15, 2016)

My pup came from the bitch's first litter. I guess there's a concern as to we don't know the "track record" of this bitch's offsprings.... To me, as long as both parents have all clearances and if you look at their genetic lines, there's nothing that "jumps" at you, I don't have a problem with that.

The only concern might be that because it's the first litter, the litter size might be rather smaller but it wasn't the case with my puppy's ... Good luck!!


----------



## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

I think the "track record" argument is without merit for two reasons:

1. Unless you're getting the last litter from a very old brood bitch, the puppies won't have lived long enough, and there won't be enough of them, to really be able to get a sense of a "track record."

2. Bitches usually use a different stud for every breeding, so there's no such thing as a track record, because no breeding is done twice.

Besides, track record of what, exactly?


----------



## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

DanaRuns said:


> 2. Bitches usually use a different stud for every breeding, so there's no such thing as a track record, because no breeding is done twice.


For this one, I think it's no different than people looking at what stud dogs have produced in the past. But there are plenty of breedings that are done twice.


----------



## Buddy1 (Feb 11, 2017)

Thanks everyone. From the responses I see there are other things to worry more about than the 1st litter. Appreciate the feedback.


----------



## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Buddy1 said:


> Thanks everyone. From the responses I see there are other things to worry more about than the 1st litter. Appreciate the feedback.


Thank you for acknowledging the comments made. Many people have been on this forum for several years and unfortunately have seen all sorts of variations on the same theme: Breeders who seem to be nice people cutting corners and not doing everything above board etc. We want very much for you to find the best puppy possible for your home and to be the dream home for a lucky pup. I hope you'll let us know if you would like assistance verifying clearances or discussing the way a breeder raises puppies. Best of luck.


----------

