# I am so mad again at my vet clinic!



## Angelina (Aug 11, 2011)

Oh man I would be pretty hot and changing vets....poor girl, wish I had an answer for you.


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## AnimalLuver (Oct 13, 2011)

I hope you paid NOTHING for either of those visits. If you did, I would tell them pretty fast that you want your money back. If she doesn't get better soon, call the next vet on the list....and switch permanently. I would be furious if I were you too!! (Good job keeping your cool though....I wouldn't be able to, I've yelled at vets for much less)

I know your biggest concern here is your pooch, and not revenge of the vet....so again, if she doesn't lighten up soon, take her to a different vet (with all the records you received from these recent visits, so they can understand the situation better)

Good luck...keep us updated, and Lucy....get better please so Mama can relax!!!:crossfing


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

AnimalLuver said:


> I hope you paid NOTHING for either of those visits.


No, I didn't and they knew better than to ask me. I'm definitely not quiet when it comes to their vet care. I just didn't want Lucy to get more upset. Between her and Chance, she is way more in tune to what I'm feeling. She picks up on everything, whereas Chance just goes through life wanting to always be close no matter what my mood is. 

She just got up and seems better, so I'm hoping she's been through the worst of it.


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## Angelina (Aug 11, 2011)

Hopfully the movement will help her. I know with the horses it does. Maybe a little icing will help too...


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

I don't blame you. If I were you, that would be my last dealing with them!


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Just so you know... pred can increase liver enzymes temporarily.


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## Deber (Aug 23, 2011)

I would have been furious too. I don't want my dogs touched unless I have agreed on the treatment. Too many mistakes can happen so I want to always know.

Poor Lucy! So many of our toy breeds are allergic to some of the shots, I hope she is on the road to recovery, but I would find me an alternate Vets office. They could have really hurt your little one - glad you gave them the best of your tongue.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Sally's Mom said:


> Just so you know... pred can increase liver enzymes temporarily.


I did ask about that and he said that it would increase the ALKP, (or ALP I can't remember), but he said it wouldn't increase the ALT. Is that true or will it increase both? 

She laying down again looking sick...I feel sooooo bad.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Oh my oh my--terrible! 

First of all, if she goes in for a dental and they do the pre-anesthesia bloodwork and it comes back with elevated liver enzymes when she has no other indicators for them to elevate, I would think (not a vet here) they would not want to vaccinate her. What the heck? At least wait a few days and recheck the enzymes. I wonder if she was already coming down with something and the vaccine aggravated it? 

I'd be steaming, especially since the expressly disregarded your instructions! 

I hope she feels better very soon. Poor baby.


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## Claire's Friend (Feb 26, 2007)

Sally's Mom said:


> Just so you know... pred can increase liver enzymes temporarily.


I was just thinking the same thing. I would get her on some Milk thistle or even better SAM-e, if you are not doing so already. Poor little girl :smooch: XXOO


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## rhondas (Sep 10, 2010)

I am not a vet but have experience with my 4 year old and ALT levels.
It is my understanding that if only the ALT levels are elevated and even up to 3X normal there is no immediate concern unless other values are elevated.

My guy's ALT levels were 2X normal at one point (found out because of a routine blood test NOT because of any issue) and it was traced back to eating brocolli.
Yes, some dogs are super sensitive to brocolli. I cut out brocolli totally (he gets home cooked) and it dropped to normal levels. I wanted to switch him to raw at one point and couldn't find a brand that didn't include brocolli.

The other thing that can also elevate ALT per my integrative vet is Heartworm preventatives. She said for dog's with ALT sensitivity Interceptor is the best. When we had his yearly blood work done his ALT was high normal and he had Interceptor a couple of weeks before the test. So... he now gets Milk Thistle once a day for 1 week after he gets his heartworm preventative.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Dallas Gold said:


> First of all, if she goes in for a dental and they do the pre-anesthesia bloodwork and it comes back with elevated liver enzymes when she has no other indicators for them to elevate, I would think (not a vet here) they would not want to vaccinate her. What the heck? At least wait a few days and recheck the enzymes.


I know...total screw up. I took her in Monday for her blood work, then dropped her off Tuesday night because I was afraid my mom would feed her and forget she did, (she has dementia). I even asked about her blood work at that time and they said it was fine.  Then I got the call the next day that her ALT level was high, so _she didn't even have to go in at all_. UGH!!! :doh: 



Claire's Friend said:


> I was just thinking the same thing. I would get her on some Milk thistle or even better SAM-e, if you are not doing so already. Poor little girl :smooch: XXOO


Ahhhh, great suggestion!  I give Chance Milk Thistle so I'll give some to Lucy, too. I'll have to look up the dose. Thanks!



rhondas said:


> I am not a vet but have experience with my 4 year old and ALT levels.
> It is my understanding that if only the ALT levels are elevated and even up to 3X normal there is no immediate concern unless other values are elevated.
> 
> My guy's ALT levels were 2X normal at one point (found out because of a routine blood test NOT because of any issue) and it was traced back to eating brocolli.
> ...


Wonderful information. Thank you.


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## KaMu (May 17, 2010)

:0 I haven't read all the replies here but Id Be hoppin MAD...OOO boy...Im mad just reading your post! Lucy is a tiny girl right?

Id call the vet again... but than I tend to be a real PIA when my dogs are not well :/ That poor baby girl.... Sending gentle chin rubs to lucy.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Look at this face...you can just tell she's not feeling well.  Her eyes are tearing a lot more, too. I covered her in one of my sweaters, (she didn't want to sleep in her bed, she wanted to lay next to Luna, I guess to keep warmer). Since I took that second picture, Luna snuggled closer to Lucy...I think she knows she's not feeling well.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Those pictures break my heart. She definitely looks like she is hurting. 

One question--it looks like the whites of her eyes may be irritated or pink--is that just the lighting or are her eyes irritated?


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Dallas Gold said:


> One question--it looks like the whites of her eyes may be irritated or pink--is that just the lighting or are her eyes irritated?


I can't really see the white part of her eyes in that picture, (but then again, my eyes aren't that great ), but I'll check when she wakes up.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

kwhit said:


> I can't really see the white part of her eyes in that picture, (but then again, my eyes aren't that great ), but I'll check when she wakes up.


Yeah, don't wake her--hopefully a good sleep will help her recover from everything.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

> The other thing that can also elevate ALT per my integrative vet is Heartworm preventatives. She said for dog's with ALT sensitivity Interceptor is the best. When we had his yearly blood work done his ALT was high normal and he had Interceptor a couple of weeks before the test. So... he now gets Milk Thistle once a day for 1 week after he gets his heartworm preventative.


This is very interesting. So of all the HW meds, Interceptor doesn't tend to elevate the ALT as much as the others? Even though Toby doesn't have elevated ALT (that I know of--we are retesting on Tuesday), I may start him on Milk Thistle too just to settle his body a bit.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

I have a diagnostic book in front of me: glucocorticoids(that would be prednisone) can increase alt and alk phos....


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Sally's Mom said:


> I have a diagnostic book in front of me: glucocorticoids(that would be prednisone) can increase alt and alk phos....


So now I'm confused--was Lucy on prednisone before her test that showed elevated liver enzymes, or was she put on after when she reacted to the vaccine? 

Sally's Mom--how long should they wait after the prednisone is out of her system to retest her enzymes? I gather next week might be too soon?


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Sally's Mom said:


> I have a diagnostic book in front of me: glucocorticoids(that would be prednisone) can increase alt and alk phos....


Wonderful :doh: Not giving me correct information...one more strike against them, huh? Too frustrating...



Dallas Gold said:


> So now I'm confused--was Lucy on prednisone before her test that showed elevated liver enzymes, or was she put on after when she reacted to the vaccine?
> 
> Sally's Mom--how long should they wait after the prednisone is out of her system to retest her enzymes? I gather next week might be too soon?


She was put on it after, for the vaccine reaction. I'm curious, too, how long I should wait to retest. I have to give it to her until Saturday.


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## Golden999 (Jun 29, 2010)

kwhit said:


> Lucy went in to have her teeth cleaned and they told me her ALT was elevated, (214), so they didn't do her cleaning and I was told to come back next week for re-check of her liver values.
> 
> So I went to pick her up last night and was told that I owed for a DHPP vaccine that was given to her. I told the receptionist that I had adamantly told the girl who checked Lucy in that _I didn't want any vaccines!_ It _should_ be on both of their charts, so once again this clinic messed up.
> 
> ...


If you lose the dog, you might want to consider suing the vet if you can get a lawyer to represent you on a contingency basis (Especially if you have proof you didn't authorize the vaccine). This is exactly the sort of thing a vet _should_ be sued for. You didn't authorize the treatment, they administered it anyway, charged you for it, and now your dog is suffering for it. It's not just about the money, it's about creating a monetary incentive for these veterinarians to stop pulling stuff like this (Or if it was through simple negligence, then to double and triple check things in the future).

At minimum, I'd ask for a refund and if I didn't get it, I would go to my bank and try to issue a charge back on my card or stop payment on the check. And change vets and make sure they know exactly why you're leaving their practice.

I hope your dog feels better soon.


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

I hope Lucy starts feeling better. Sending good thoughts and prayers.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

One more question- is it possible that the vet didn't actually give the vaccination, but a nurse/vet tech did it without reading the chart and disregarding your instructions? The reason why I ask is if so the vet may want to discuss what happened with that person. 

The clinic we take Toby to requires a licensed veterinarian to administer some of the vaccinations--I can't remember exactly which ones but I believe it's most of the major ones that might result in an adverse reaction.


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## BajaOklahoma (Sep 27, 2009)

I always think of ALT as slower to rise and really slow to drop. That's why you have to wait 2-3 weeks after treatment stops. And I was told that an elevation of 2-3 times normal isn't panic time, just wait a bit and recheck.

We've had Alk Phos elevation for 3 years, with other values in the normal range. Bailey is on medication daily and it seems to help. In fact, our vet had to been reminded that she is 10 years old because she is so perky. He has a number of "healthy" patients that have elevated liver enzymes and no other issues that can be found. I would like to get the lab work done again in the Winter and see if the summer heat is a cause.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

I am so sorry. I hope she starts feeling better soon!


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## DaisyGolden (Jan 4, 2008)

Poor baby. She looks sad. I hope she feels better soon. I would be beyond angry.


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

Such a teeny, tiny sad face.:smooch::smooch:

I hope she starts feeling better very soon.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Golden999 said:


> If you lose the dog, you might want to consider suing the vet if you can get a lawyer to represent you on a contingency basis (Especially if you have proof you didn't authorize the vaccine).



Heaven forbid if that should happen. :no: I would go ballistic on them! Seriously, I would lose it. I won't even think about that right now, though. 



Dallas Gold said:


> One more question- is it possible that the vet didn't actually give the vaccination, but a nurse/vet tech did it without reading the chart and disregarding your instructions?


I was under the impression that the vet has to actually order the vaccine to be given. That will be one of my questions if I call the owner of the clinic tomorrow, (don't know if he'll be back at work. He's been out for awhile with an injury).


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Oh, man...now she won't even take water.  I should take her temp. but her bootie is soooo small. Or should I just leave her alone? Ahhhhhhh...


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## iansgran (May 29, 2010)

So sorry, Hope all turns out better very soon.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

oh boy....I don't know...what time is it where you are? Can you call the vet? Otherwise, if I were in your shoes I'd probably take the temperature and then go to the ER vet for treatment if she's still got a fever and not taking water--dehydration is my fear. Trust your instincts....


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

It's easy for me to be a back seat "driver" but in my experience (25 years) it takes more than one week to see if liver values will go down... if the dog is not sick, I would wait longer. When we allergy test the lab wants the dogs to be off steroids for one month....
When Tiki ate the iris rhizomes I think I waited at least 3 weeks to see if her liver improved.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Sally's Mom said:


> It's easy for me to be a back seat "driver" but in my experience (25 years) it takes more than one week to see if liver values will go down... if the dog is not sick, I would wait longer. When we allergy test the lab wants the dogs to be off steroids for one month....
> When Tiki ate the iris rhizomes I think I waited at least 3 weeks to see if her liver improved.


That coincides with what I vaguely remember our vet told us after Barkley had lepto and his liver enzymes skyrocketed. I think we waited 3 weeks for the first big retest (after release from the clinic's hospital) and we really didn't see normal range until a month or so after.


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## GoldensGirl (Aug 2, 2010)

Just catching up. I'm so sorry that you and your gal are going through this.

In your place, I would be heading to the ER vet immediately at this point. Fever plus not drinking is never a good combination.

On a different note, if there is any kind of rating service in your area - Angie's List or even the Better Business Bureau - you might file a complaint where others can see it and perhaps get some leverage to make the practice clean up their act. That would also let other people know that there are "issues" to keep in mind there.

Sending healing thoughts and prayers,
Lucy


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## Rainheart (Nov 28, 2010)

I am so sorry that this has happened! I would be furious! At my vet, we have to call owners (if they don't tell us anything) to see if they want vaccines to be updated before we do them (unless it is Rabies, which we have to do). 

An assistant or vet tech can look at the records and then bring it to the attention of a vet that they are overdue (or coming up due) if the vet didn't notice. 

I really hope she feels better soon!


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Dallas Gold said:


> oh boy....I don't know...what time is it where you are? Can you call the vet? Otherwise, if I were in your shoes I'd probably take the temperature and then go to the ER vet for treatment if she's still got a fever and not taking water--dehydration is my fear. Trust your instincts....


It's 4:30 p.m. I think I'll let her rest, (she's sleeping), and when she wakes up, offer more water. If she doesn't take it...I'll take her temp. and if it's up, I'll take her to the ER. We have really, really great ER clinics here. Hope they take CareCredit. :crossfing 



Sally's Mom said:


> It's easy for me to be a back seat "driver" but in my experience (25 years) it takes more than one week to see if liver values will go down... if the dog is not sick, I would wait longer. When we allergy test the lab wants the dogs to be off steroids for one month....
> When Tiki ate the iris rhizomes I think I waited at least 3 weeks to see if her liver improved.


Thanks for this information. I'll definitely wait a month before re-testing her. I just think they wanted it sooner because of her dental. She has a really loose front tooth that I thought was bothering her.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

All of my best wishes for Lucy.


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## Cathy's Gunner (Dec 4, 2008)

Just read all the post and I'm so sorry to hear what happened to your poor baby. I will send lot of good thoughts and prayers your way. I hope you will see a good change in her soon. Hugs from Cathy and Gunner


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Keep us posted on how she does--I hope when she wakes up her fever is broken and she's drinking.

Is it possible she has a bacterial infection from that loose tooth so that she needs antibiotics?


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Ok...I just mixed a jar of baby food, (chicken), with _a lot_ of water and gave her 1/2 of it and she ate it all. Licked the bowl clean. She's up looking for more! YAY! Will that keep her hydrated? 

I'll wait a little while to make sure she doesn't throw it up and if she doesn't I'll give her the rest. Glad I had the baby food on hand.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

You can also try low sodium, low fat broth.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Sally's Mom said:


> You can also try low sodium, low fat broth.


That is a GREAT idea!!!! I'm on my way to the store right now.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Thank goodness!! Relief! 

BTW, just in case you forgot, with the steroid she'll be drinking a lot more anyway, and needing to go outside more too.

After Barkley's splenectomy I boiled some skinless chicken breasts to shred for us and for the dogs as treats. I reserved the cooking water, chilled it and used it to entice Barkley to drink all the anesthetic out of his system--it definitely hydrated both dogs because Toby wanted some too!


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Keep us posted!!


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Well, she ate some chicken and seems to have some of her energy back. Definitely not 100%, but at least she's a little better. 

Thanks everyone for your kind words, great advise and support. Lucy and I truly appreciate it.


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## Bentley's Mom (May 19, 2011)

Just seeing this...I hope she's feeling much better. Please give her a kiss from us :smooch:


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## GoldensGirl (Aug 2, 2010)

Remember that your hands not only express your love but also ease pain for your girl. She needs your touch, as well as your presence.

Holding you and Lucy in my thoughts and prayers,
Lucy


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## SandyK (Mar 20, 2011)

I am so sorry for what Lucy is going through...and what you are going through. I hope she continues to get better. Lots of love, thoughts and prayers coming your way!!!


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## 3 goldens (Sep 30, 2005)

I would more than furious. and i would find another vet/clinic. i didn't read thru the entire thread (I have vision trouble and can't read a lot as i get dizzy using my "spy glass" to read), so don't know if she had had a reaction before or not. if so, she not have been given a vax at all.

My KayCee had no problem with her puppy vax, nor her first set of annuals, but i almost lost her to the 2ed set of annuals when she was about 2 1/2. my vet so NO MORE vax for except law required rabies. And even then he bucked our city law. Our state law is every 3 years, but lets ech county and city make their own laws. Both our county our small town say EVERY YEAR. However, Rickey only vccinaed KayCee every 3rd year and said if I had a problme just send them to him and he would tell them she coudln't be vaccinaed every year.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Please update this morning (after you wake up!). I hope Lucy is much better this morning.:crossfing


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## Claire's Friend (Feb 26, 2007)

How's she doing ???


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Dallas Gold said:


> Please update this morning (after you wake up!). I hope Lucy is much better this morning.:crossfing





Claire's Friend said:


> How's she doing ???


She's doing really good. : Thanks so much for asking about her. Here's a really short video of her waiting for her cheese, (which had her pill in it ). Such a difference between today and yesterday.


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## Claire's Friend (Feb 26, 2007)

Thanks for checking in, sooo happy she's doing better !!!


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

I am so glad your little girl is feeling better!


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

She seems so happy and bouncy! Whew! Relief!


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## maple1144 (Oct 18, 2009)

just read all this so glad she is doing better I would be really upset too if the vet or anyone else there did anything to Maple I didnt ask for or approve, so not ok!


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## Cathy's Gunner (Dec 4, 2008)

I'm so glad she is doing better...


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## KaMu (May 17, 2010)

Great news!!!!  Yes! a very excited pupper tail wag is always a good thing!


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## SandyK (Mar 20, 2011)

Glad to see Lucy is feeling better!!


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