# Good recommendations



## dcousins (Jul 3, 2012)

Riley has been eating Fromm grain free food for about a year and a half now. Lately he seems to not be as interested in it and often I have to crush up treats for him to eat it all. I am thinking about switching foods to see if he wants to try something new. Does anyone have any suggestions on grain free food?


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

I moved your thread to the Nutrition section so it will get more attention and responses.


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## Tuco (Jan 3, 2013)

Imo raw diet is best, and dogs go insane for it (not literally, the bloodthirsty thing is a myth) if you have the time to do it. If you are short on time you can do it systematically by going to the butcher monthly, weekly, or bi weekly and then portion it into bags and feed. 

The beauty of it is that you have full controll and can give them variety. For example, earlier this month tuco was getting less thrilled with the chicken, so I substituted legs with turkey drumsticks and pork backs. 




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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Tuco, do you have case studies or data to substantiate that Raw diets are best?

Not everyone wants to do raw for various reasons. I prefer not to.

Here is a link to a thread about Dr. Susan Wynn who is a Vet and nutrionist.

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...ecipes/69410-susan-wynn-dvm-nutritionist.html

The OP has asked for Grain Free recommendations, please try to stay on topic.


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## dcousins (Jul 3, 2012)

Raw diet is too time consuming and expensive for me. I'm looking for something similar in quality and price to fromm


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

Have you thought of trying a different Fromm formula? If you already like the brand and are looking at something comparable to that food, maybe that would be easiest to try first before switching brands. Just a thought


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## CrazyZane (Jan 28, 2013)

Earthborn has grain-free formulas and has never had recalls....Annamaet too.


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## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

We have been feeding Max Acana Wild Prairie for well over a year. It is grain free, with the main ingredients being chicken and fish. Max chose the WP after we conducted a taste test with six different foods, including one from Fromm. Wild Prairie was the clear winner.


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## dcousins (Jul 3, 2012)

Yes I have tried different flavors within Fromm I usually alternate every few bags and he just doesn't seem to really want to eat it without encouragement. 


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## jweisman54 (May 22, 2010)

RichsRetriever said:


> Earthborn has grain-free formulas and has never had recalls....Annamaet too.


We are using Earthborn Meadow Feast (lamb) and Earthborn Great Plains Feast (bison) but found out that the ash content is in the very high range. I contacted Midwest and they confirmed it. I am actually switching over to Fromm Beef Fritata.


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## dcousins (Jul 3, 2012)

I bought a small bag of the natures variety instinct for him to try but I am also very interested in trying the earthborn food too


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## MyBentley (May 5, 2009)

The only Earthborn formula with ash % that is not high is the Coastal Catch. I don't know which Natural Instinct you are trying but some of them have quite high ash also. The Annamaet grain-frees are first-rate in my book. Acana Pacifica has also worked for my dogs.


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## dcousins (Jul 3, 2012)

What do you mean by ash?


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## Tuco (Jan 3, 2013)

CAROLINA MOM said:


> Tuco, do you have case studies or data to substantiate that Raw diets are best?
> 
> Not everyone wants to do raw for various reasons. I prefer not to.
> 
> ...


First of all the op said grain free and raw is grain free, nor did he specify knowing about or not wishing to do raw. I would understand your reaction if I had pushed it to the op multiple times but I only made 1 post. As for studies, there is no study saying any food is best for dogs, exept perhaps meat vs plant protien, however that's far from definite. There are statistics and studies that demonstrate that unprocessed foods are connected to lower rates of certain cancers in humans and that preservatives can be harmful as well as studies showing that there is a loss of nutrients and enzymes especially when food is cooked. It's also proven to be linked to better tooth and gym health.
There are also unproven connections between raw and;
- shinier coat
-healthier skin
-I'm not sure if its proven or not but because of the bone and high percentage of water, less gastrointestinal distress
- more stable energy
- reduced incidences of repeat ear infections




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## Tuco (Jan 3, 2013)

To the op, I understand many cant feed raw. For some good grain free kibbles that alot of dogs seen to enjoy

-Orijen
-evo 
-anamaet
- back 2 basics
- acana


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## Tuco (Jan 3, 2013)

dcousins said:


> What do you mean by ash?
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Ash is whats left from cooking the meats in dog foods, mineral and bone leftovers. If the ash percentage is too high it often shows a lower quality meat was used in some cases. It's basically the filler of the meat only foods, sort of like how people see corn or wheat in carb filled foods. I believe that a food with lower ash than 12 is fine and my vet nutritionist seemed to agree with that number


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## artbuc (Apr 12, 2009)

Tuco;2878514I believe that a food with lower ash than 12 is fine and my vet nutritionist seemed to agree with that number
[color=gray said:


> Sent from Petguide.com Free App[/color]


What is your "belief" that less than 12% is "fine" based on? What do you mean by "fine"? Eg, what are the negatives that manifest at 13% that are not problems at 11%? Also, what does "seem to agree" mean? Does your vet nutritionist think 12% is ok or not ok? You always talk in vague generalities. You say things like "I believe, I think, it seems, some people say, etc, etc" Why do you insist on responding to every question as though you have some in-depth technical knowledge about canine kibble when it is obvious that most of what you know comes from reading Internet sites such as DFA. If you do not have personal experience feeding a particular kibble or can not refer to a credible peer review study, you should not respond.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I feed Fromm often too, but I have fed them Taste Of The Wild at times and they have done well on it and they gobble it.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

It is fine to have opinions on food, we all have them, but we have to be careful about posting statements that sound like fact when they are really opinion. If we are all careful to make clear that our opinion is our opinion and stay respectful to other posters, we would have much fewer arguments in this particular area of the board.


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## Keragold (May 9, 2008)

There are so many options out there, but here are some good alternative choices from Petcurean. Check them out!

GO! Fit + Free Adult http://www.petcurean.com/for-dogs/go/fit-and-free-grain-free-adult

GO! Sensitivity + Shine Grain Free, Potato Free Turkey http://www.petcurean.com/for-dogs/go/sensitivity-and-shine-grain-free-potato-free-turkey

NOW FRESH Large Breed Adulthttp://www.petcurean.com/for-dogs/now-fresh/grain-free-large-breed-adult


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## Tuco (Jan 3, 2013)

I have said and denounced both DFA's on a regular basis on this forum


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## Tuco (Jan 3, 2013)

And I use statements like in my opinion and I believe because before when I didn't members were up my *** about making sure I make my statements clear when they are presented as an opinion. As for the ash, that's number came from extensive research and advice from the nutritionist, as did my numbers for optimal calcium and phosphorus. But like any other aspect of kibble and food there is no definitive answer nor study that says 1 food or 1 measurement is better than all others


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## kel (Nov 28, 2012)

I'm also switching my dog's food. I had him on Nature's Instinct, but then heard about the high ash content from people on here and switched him off of it. I went to a local pet store yesterday, and was recommended Natural Planet, Rabbit and Salmon Entree. It's grain-free and everyone in the store had good things to say about it. I'm excited to try it out. Griffin is my first dog, so my experience with different diets is limited, but if you're interested in looking at the ingredients, this page has a complete list for both the Rabbit & Salmon and Duck & White Fish: Natural Planet Pet Foods


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## artbuc (Apr 12, 2009)

kel said:


> I'm also switching my dog's food. I had him on Nature's Instinct, but then heard about the high ash content from people on here and switched him off of it. I went to a local pet store yesterday, and was recommended Natural Planet, Rabbit and Salmon Entree. It's grain-free and everyone in the store had good things to say about it. I'm excited to try it out. Griffin is my first dog, so my experience with different diets is limited, but if you're interested in looking at the ingredients, this page has a complete list for both the Rabbit & Salmon and Duck & White Fish: Natural Planet Pet Foods


Tuco and his vet nutritionist said 12% ash is ok so do not worry about Instinct.


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## Tuco (Jan 3, 2013)

Is sarcasm and condescension really nessesary?!


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## artbuc (Apr 12, 2009)

Tuco said:


> Is sarcasm and condescension really nessesary?!
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Sorry if I misunderstood your recommendation.


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## JessCDoyle (May 21, 2013)

Mine switched from purina which is what she came with to Fromm LBP/blue bag and now she's on orijen LBP because of disinterest as well - seems we have a picky eater! We were also given a free sample of this frozen lamb in a package that you can thaw and leave in the fridge and we top her food off a little to get her going 


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## sharlin (Feb 26, 2007)

Acana
Orijen

Also - if everyone has the time to read you might want to get Pukka's Promise and take a look at the nutrition chapters. Mr Kerasote dedicated 5 years of his life studying why our fur kids don't live longer. He narrows it down to 5 core reasons and explores each one. And while not a scientist/behaviorist/breeder/ etc etc..he did one on one interviews with all of these and gives references and cites at the end. Surprising finds.


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## T&T (Feb 28, 2008)

CAROLINA MOM said:


> Tuco, do you have case studies or data to substantiate that Raw diets are best?
> 
> Not everyone wants to do raw for various reasons. I prefer not to.
> 
> ...


"80 million species on earth thrive on raw. Only humans & domesticated pets consume cooked processed foods"
Are there "case studies" / "data" that prove kibble (processed & sprayed with synthetic vitamins) is better than raw (whole/fresh) ?


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

T&T said:


> "80 million species on earth thrive on raw. Only humans & domesticated pets consume cooked processed foods"
> Are there "case studies" / "data" that prove kibble (processed & sprayed with synthetic vitamins) is better than raw (whole/fresh) ?


The difference is, no one said "kibble is best." The post Carolina Mom was responding to originally said "raw is best" but was then edited. As I said above, having an opinion is fine but stating something as fact when it is an opinion is not.


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## dogloverforlife (Feb 17, 2013)

I agree with trying Go! or Now! . I plan to add these to my rotation with Fromm. I kinda want to try the Acana Lamb grain free. Only because my dogs never eat lamb.


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## MrVivas (Jun 3, 2013)

Taste of the Wild also has grain-free formulas- if you contact them they can provide you with free samples to see if your dog enjoys it.


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## GoldensGirl (Aug 2, 2010)

T&T said:


> "80 million species on earth thrive on raw. Only humans & domesticated pets consume cooked processed foods"
> Are there "case studies" / "data" that prove kibble (processed & sprayed with synthetic vitamins) is better than raw (whole/fresh) ?


If you want to have this discussion, I suggest that you start a new thread and not hijack this one. Posts here should respond to the OP's question.

Thank you.


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## murphy1 (Jun 21, 2012)

Murphy ate Orijen lg breed puppy and now eats Acana Pacifica. His coat is beautful and he loves it.


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## T&T (Feb 28, 2008)

GoldensGirl said:


> If you want to have this discussion, I suggest that you start a new thread and not hijack this one. Posts here should respond to the OP's question.
> 
> Thank you.


Mod CarolinaMom asked a poster for backup studies to "substantiate raw is best" . I too would like to see such studies. Raw vs Kibble, Kibble vs Raw. What is the problem with my post ? The real problem.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

T&T said:


> Mod CarolinaMom asked a poster for backup studies to "substantiate raw is best" . I too would like to see such studies. Raw vs Kibble, Kibble vs Raw. What is the problem with my post ? The real problem.


As GoldensGirl said, if you would like to start that thread to discuss the subject, please do. That was not the question of the OP, in fact, the OP said raw is not an option for them. Let's get this thread back on track.


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## GoldensGirl (Aug 2, 2010)

T&T said:


> Mod CarolinaMom asked a poster for backup studies to "substantiate raw is best" . I too would like to see such studies. Raw vs Kibble, Kibble vs Raw. What is the problem with my post ? The real problem.


The _real_ problem is highjacking the thread - using it to promote a viewpoint that is not responsive to the interests of the person who started the thread. 

If you want to discuss raw vs. kibble, that belongs in a new thread. Nutrition issues are important and it's fine to discuss them.

However, please take note of this rule:
13. _*GoldenRetrieverForum.com Members will treat other members with respect.* The Golden Retriever Forum relies on its members to self-monitor in terms of rudeness that is just gratuitous. It is one thing to focus passionately on a topic; it is another thing to call someone an offensive name or to be condescending. We hold golden temperaments on high, so let's see our members be friendly to one another as well, even when disagreements occur. You may respectfully disagree with a member’s point of view but do not assault the member personally, or be rude in your responses. *Do not use statements that incite conflicts among members. This could include such things as rehashing conflicts from past or closed topics.* Do not make abusive, hateful, harassing, or threatening statements. Do not make statements that are untrue, misleading or based on rumors. If a thread starts getting heated, take it to a mod, NOT PUBLIC. Those who do not follow this can be warned, suspended or banned._

Simply repeating/rehashing contentious discussions from recent threads, especially closed ones, that discuss which foods are best is a violation of this rule.


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## sharlin (Feb 26, 2007)

Probably gonna get "sent to my room" for this, but.....
T&T never asked for anything or pushed any agenda that wasn't already brought up by a moderator.
If a moderator asks for studies and data...then why would they say someone is hijacking a thread if the same question is made to them.
Instead of trying to silence the discussion why not embrace it for the OP?
Why not consider raw+kibble+suppliments might be the answer to the OP's orignal question?
But instead the mods turned this into something that didn't need to happen. Raw just doesn't mean meat - heck all sorts of raw veggies and fruits mixed with her original kibble might have been the perfect answer. But unless people stop taking things on a defensive stance then these discussions will never happen - and all members will suffer.

I find the moderators response to this thread much more in violation of the rules you quoted then any of those you accused.

FYI to the OP - I've been feeding Fromm for 4 years and spice up the Packs meals with raw fruits, raw veggies, green tripe, cottage cheese, Kefir(they love honey vanilla), yogurt, eggs, chunks of raw but seared beef, and MAYBE a spoon of Ben & Jerrys once in awhile - on a rotating basis of course!! lol Just remember quality of kibble you feed and you can dress it up with all sorts of good nutritious toppers. 

Good luck to you and thanks for looking out for your furkid.


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