# Taste of the Wild update



## momo_ (Dec 15, 2014)

He was at his worst late April, when he had a bacteria.  
In the 1st photo, bottom right, he had rolled around in another dog's puke. :yuck:

At the vet 10 days ago, his weight was around 23kgs, so I'm assuming he's around 24kgs/53lbs now. 
I think he's at an ideal weight on the leaner side, which I guess is better than being too tubby.


----------



## Rundlemtn (Jan 16, 2015)

Going off of the June 7th picture, I don't think his fur looks that different from Rundle's right now in terms of thickness and length. Obviously I haven't seen his litter mates, but to me he looks like a young and healthy golden.


----------



## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

This is just my personal experience with TOTW, but my dogs coats were dull and thin. A month after I put them on a different food their coats looked better, now 6 months later they have heathly coats that look better than they did for years on TOTW. 

Unfortunately I am now feeding them Pro Plan Sensitive Skin and Stomach, which you said did not work for Sunny, so I'm no help on another food suggestion.

I used to feed my dogs Natural Balance and they had the smallest most infrequent stools I've ever seen. I assumed it was because they were absorbing all the nutrients from the food and had little waste. I only stopped feeding it because of the Diamond manufactured food recall a couple of years ago. TOTW is also produced in a Diamond plant now though, and I quit using it too. I didn't do that on purpose, it is a coincidence.

Natural Balance has limited ingredient diets if you decide to look for other options.


----------



## momo_ (Dec 15, 2014)

> This is just my personal experience with TOTW, but my dogs coats were dull and thin. A month after I put them on a different food their coats looked better, now 6 months later they have heathly coats that look better than they did for years on TOTW.
> 
> Unfortunately I am now feeding them Pro Plan Sensitive Skin and Stomach, which you said did not work for Sunny, so I'm no help on another food suggestion.


Very interesting, most people who feed TOTW rave about great coats on their dogs the main reason why I picked it! Pro Plan SSS didn't work for Sunny because I tried the transition WHILE the diarrhoea issue was ongoing. I followed the vet's instructions - 24hr fast, chicken and rice for 4 days, then slowly add PP. If I hadn't gone grain-free, I'd probably try PP later on in the future, but I noticed TOTW has decreased his itching dramatically, and his ears don't get gunky everyday anymore. 

I did a quick Google search on Natural Balance, I'm not sure it's available in Australia? Unfortunately we don't have many of the good brands here. The best grain-free we have is TOTW, Wellness, Artemis and Earthborn Holistic. Any opinions on these brands?


----------



## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

It is interesting how some foods work for some dogs and not others. Wellness is a good brand, the others I don't know anything about.


----------



## momo_ (Dec 15, 2014)

Pebs, I brought along my camera to the dog park today to take some snaps for fun. It's not something I really notice with my own eyes, but the photos really show how much better it looks since 1.5 months ago. I'm really pleased with how he's progressed. Unfortunately, today he's started another round of frequent diarrhea. With mucus too. I swear every thread I start leads to diarrhea somehow! :doh:
We'll be going to the vet in a few days. I just hate that as soon as he got better, it's gonna go downhill again.


----------



## Rundlemtn (Jan 16, 2015)

momo_ said:


> Pebs, I brought along my camera to the dog park today to take some snaps for fun. It's not something I really notice with my own eyes, but the photos really show how much better it looks since 1.5 months ago. I'm really pleased with how he's progressed. Unfortunately, today he's started another round of frequent diarrhea. With mucus too. I swear every thread I start leads to diarrhea somehow! :doh:
> We'll be going to the vet in a few days. I just hate that as soon as he got better, it's gonna go downhill again.


He really does look so much better and healthier from 1.5 months ago. I really do not see a dull coat on him either. He looks super handsome as far as I can tell :
Really sorry to hear that he has diarrhea + mucus again though. Rundle has been pretty solid as of late :crossfing She had one bout of diarrhoea that we switched her back to the GI food. But, it was resolved after about 4 days. Than she had another bout that last maybe 1 to 2 days, where we didn't switch her over and we just waited for it to resolve. Since then she has one offs where maybe it is a little soft, or solid with a little run at the end... but, in all these times it has never been as frequent, sloppy, or mucousy as that one week she had it. We are really hoping not to see anything like that again. But, it is hard because sometimes she eats random things like the current 2inch by 1 inch piece of himalayan that is sitting in her digestive system somewhere right now. :doh: It's really hard to stop these little vacuums sometimes no matter how matter how closely you monitor them. Really hoping that doesn't get stuck in her digestive track somewhere... We love our dogs, but they sure know just what to do to keep us on our toes.


----------



## momo_ (Dec 15, 2014)

I'm always very flattered when people compliment him, because he's a bit of an odd-looking fella sometimes! 
Glad to hear Rundle's poops have been good! What do you mean when you say "GI food"? I'd like to get Sunny on some alternative food to chicken and rice, something that's more nutritious for him, especially since he gets these diarrhoea episodes so frequently. 
Rundle's stools lately actually sounds really similar to Sunny's! He had diarrhoea for 3 days because I did not do a slow transition to coconut oil. After that, his poops were fairly solid - well-formed, but mushes in the hand when picked up. Not mushy enough to leave marks on the ground though. He had diarrhoea again for about 1-2 days, like Rundle, so I put him on chicken and rice only and his poops were absolutely super solid and small. 30 hours after eating pupcakes at his dad's birthday, he got mushy poop, but it cleared up the next morning. Then all of a sudden, this happens. Full-blown diarrhoea with mucus. I have no idea what it could be. He's not getting new treats. 
It's 11pm now, no diarrhoea since 2:20pm today, fingers crossed none throughout the night and an improvement tomorrow morning! 
I really don't mind if it's from eating junk outside once in a while, they're puppies, we aren't always there to watch them like a hawk, but I'm paranoid it's another bacteria or virus. The diarrhoea episodes during that period was constant though, all through the night, attacking 5-6 times during the night. 

Fingers crossed Rundle passes that piece of chew! Gee, sounds quite big! Sunny recently passed a chunk of rubber, about 1inch x 1inch. It came out in a solid poop, no diarrhoea surprisingly. He's swallowed 2-3inches of a bully stick before too. 
Do himalayan chews get soft and dissolve or anything? It's not a foreign object, so probably wouldn't cause an obstruction. Good luck Rundle!


----------



## Rundlemtn (Jan 16, 2015)

momo_ said:


> What do you mean when you say "GI food"? I'd like to get Sunny on some alternative food to chicken and rice, something that's more nutritious for him, especially since he gets these diarrhoea episodes so frequently.
> 
> It's 11pm now, no diarrhoea since 2:20pm today, fingers crossed none throughout the night and an improvement tomorrow morning!
> 
> ...


Royal Canin has a whole GI line. Here is the one for puppies and the rest of the GI foods are posted on the left side of the screen: Gastro Intestinal Puppy / Veterinary Therapeutic Formulas / Canine Nutrition / Veterinary Products / Home - RoyalCanin

This food is not sold in pet stores, only vet clinics. Though I did notice it is available on amazon. It really helped Rundle a lot when she had full blown diarrhea as you will see on that link all of the key features and benefits of this food. We had Rundle on the GI moderate calorie version (and just gave her more kibble) because that is all they had available at the vet clinic at the time, and she loved it! But, it is pretty pricey, so that is why we don't keep her on it all the time.

Hoping it is not another virus either. I do think the fact that it is not constant is a good sign. I don't usually stress about twigs/grass/leaves either. But, it's when she eats stuff people have left on the ground (mystery food items or worse), or I can't see what she is eating off the ground (always worry about mushrooms), or foreign objects (e.g. the monkey tail off of her chew proof stuffy) that gets me worried. Like you, I always fear the never ending diarrhea happening again. 

Himalayan chews can dissolved, but they are quite solid and can take a long time to dissolve. She's been pooping normally since she swallowed it, so there are no obstructions or bowel irritation from it yet. Just gotta wait and see :uhoh:


----------



## momo_ (Dec 15, 2014)

Ooo thanks for that! I know RC have a huge range of lines. So GI RC can replace chicken and rice, just as easily digestible? I'll ask my vet about it, they'll probably be happy to hear since they promote RC, and only RC. 
I don't think it'd be as expensive as all the chicken I buy Sunny. On bad weeks, chicken breasts costs me $15-20 PER WEEK. That's almost $1000 per year. As he matures and his system is less sensitive, I won't have to spend so much on chicken. 
I've found some GI RC low-fat online, but can't find the puppy formula.  

After no diarrhoea since 2:20pm, he had it again at 2:00am. I hosed it down the mess of mucus to see 3 small solid pellets. That's odd? Probably an improvement? Though mucus doesn't sound good still. 

I heard that dogs can get an obstruction from eating grass and debris. Sunny passes those things but now I'm afraid there's a dam building up inside him!!! 

When did Rundle swallow the chew piece? If she's still pooping normally that's great! I'm sure she will be fine  

Edit: only GI low fat is available in Australia, no puppy formula! A 12kg bag is $130 which is only $30 more than most foods. Not too bad. I think I will invest in one!


----------



## Rundlemtn (Jan 16, 2015)

momo_ said:


> Ooo thanks for that! I know RC have a huge range of lines. So GI RC can replace chicken and rice, just as easily digestible? I'll ask my vet about it, they'll probably be happy to hear since they promote RC, and only RC.
> I don't think it'd be as expensive as all the chicken I buy Sunny. On bad weeks, chicken breasts costs me $15-20 PER WEEK. That's almost $1000 per year. As he matures and his system is less sensitive, I won't have to spend so much on chicken.
> I've found some GI RC low-fat online, but can't find the puppy formula.
> 
> ...


Yes it is meant for easy digestion. For Rundle, it worked better than giving her chicken and rice. 

Rundle swallowed it about 2 to 3 days ago? Still no signs of any trouble, though still no signs of the chew either... 

There digestion will always be a mystery to me... mucous and 3 kibbles? I have no idea. But, hope you see continued improvement in Sunny!


----------



## momo_ (Dec 15, 2014)

He pooped 3 times today, all solid! They're quite soft but I'm not complaining, as long as they're well-formed. 
I'm going to continue feeding only chicken, rice and kibble for the next 4 days without treats to make sure it's not TOTW that's the issue. I've been reading up about bad April/May bags causing diarrhea. 

Today Sunny chewed off some flexible rubber/plastic from his teething toy and swallowed a small bit of it before I could stop him. This is the most destructive he's ever been, he's usually a very gentle chewer but it's like he's teething again. 

So now we're both waiting for our dogs to pass things... :doh:


----------



## Rundlemtn (Jan 16, 2015)

Yay for solid poops! 
I'm sure if he swallowed small bits of rubber there isn't much to worry about. It's the large items that keep me up at night. Same old, same old over here. Two solid poops this morning. Literally! One big poop. Than two minutes later another big one! But, neither showed signs of her chew. I think it's just going to float around in there until it dissolves to a small enough size that she can pass it.


----------



## golfgal (Dec 31, 2013)

FYI - You might want to try the Proplan Lamb & Rice rather than SSS. Not all dogs do well with SSS for some reason. Definitely will address the coat issue and I have to say in three years of puppies, there have been no diarrhea issues. Murphy did much better of Lamb than SSS. A breeder/nutritionist has dogs (not goldens) with skin/coat issues and she uses Lamb & Rice and or if that does not work, raw. I've been trying Proplan grain free formula (chicken/egg) most recently thinking it might solve the 'yeast/paw licking' problem but I guess it's not the grains. I'd caution on the Canin, I know the Golden Retriever one here has powdered cellulose in it which is one major reason I wouldn't buy Canin. I just got an email about their new skin formula. Horrible ingredients so I'm not sure how it helps.


----------



## Rundlemtn (Jan 16, 2015)

In response to golfgal's caution about royal canin, I will reiterate that we do not keep Rundle on Royal Canin GI all the time. We only use it to help her stomach after we have had 2 days of diarrhoea that does not seem to want to go away. Luckily we have not had to put her on it for quite some time now. Otherwise she is on acana wild prairie, and doing really well on it. 

Just an update. After eating a little bit of gravel yesterday (while trying to lick something else I'm sure), Rundle barfed at 3 o'clock this morning. Up came the much smaller than it was originally chew. So, it seemed to have dissolved quite a bit in her stomach since she swallowed it almost a week ago. But, still hadn't passed. Amazing eh? Anyhow, luckily it didn't cause her any trouble and we can now go forward without having to worry... but, I'm sure she'll give us another reason before long. :doh: Silly girl.


----------



## momo_ (Dec 15, 2014)

I can't believe dogs can throw up things that have been there for a week! Amazing. 
I will get back to responding to you golfgal, but I need to post this or I can't get back to sleep. 

Since three weeks ago, I've been getting sunny to sleep downstairs in his crate. Nothings changed except I don't sleep in the room with him, I sleep upstairs. It's been so great because now I don't wake up heart pounding from hearing him rattle the crate whether intentionally or accidentally. On days he has runny poos, I sleep downstairs and leave the door open for him in case he needs to go. 

Yesterday, he did 4 poops, more than usual lately. The second one of the day was quite mushy, but it improved throughout the day and since he went 4 times I was certain he wouldn't need to go again. Wrong. 

At 6 i got up to let him out. As soon as I opened my half closed bedroom door, I could smell it from upstairs... Sure enough, he'd poop in the crate and I am so mad at myself. 

The poop was mushy cow party, but the surface seemed to have hardened a little, meaning it had probably been there for a few hours. Poor thing had to sleep with his mess. I feel so terrible I want to cry. 

Now he probably won't want to sleep in his crate again and if I sleep downstairs I won't be able to tell whether it's a get me out of here or a I need to crap rattle. If it was a one off thing and I go back to sleeping upstairs, he may think pooping in the crate is acceptable. I don't know.. a few times I let him out in the morning and he goes outside to poop so sometimes he can hold it. I don't know what to do. Ahh I hate crate training.


----------



## momo_ (Dec 15, 2014)

He just puked out the chicken and rice I gave him, quite a lot plus I see some kibble from yesterday. How polite of him to ask to vomit outside. Poor baby... Thankfully the vet is open until noon today.


----------



## momo_ (Dec 15, 2014)

I've heard stories about the bad bags of TOTW, but I'm not convinced his kibble is the cause of it.. we went through the bag with solid poops and mushy poop, with the odd diarrhea now and then. How can a food be okay one day then not okay the next? His poops were solid for a while.. and the vomit. He hasn't gotten into anything outside as of late.


----------



## Rundlemtn (Jan 16, 2015)

Hey momo, try not to worry about how he will do until his crate before you see what happens. He might do fine and all that worry would have been for not. I understand you feel bad for having left him in his crate with his mess, but I also understand that it happens... you are not alone in this.. and I'm certain he won't be scarred forever. 
In terms of the poop and vomit I am sorry to hear that Sunny doesn't sound well. Thought it may be still that he did munch on something when you werent looking, and he just has a bit of an upset tummy (I refer back to Rundles 3am vomit). She is totally fine. Pooping normally. Anyways let us know what the vet says. I am hoping Sunny is alright! 
Are you still giving him pumpkin with this meals? I really do find giving Rundle half a tablespoon of pumpkin with her meals helps keep her firmer while she eats grass, twigs, leaves and everything else on the ground outside. 
Best wishes!


----------



## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

momo_ said:


> Ooo thanks for that! I know RC have a huge range of lines. So GI RC can replace chicken and rice, just as easily digestible? I'll ask my vet about it, they'll probably be happy to hear since they promote RC, and only RC.
> I don't think it'd be as expensive as all the chicken I buy Sunny. On bad weeks, chicken breasts costs me $15-20 PER WEEK. That's almost $1000 per year. As he matures and his system is less sensitive, I won't have to spend so much on chicken.
> I've found some GI RC low-fat online, but can't find the puppy formula.
> 
> ...


Be careful about feeding a puppy low fat or low protein, the need both for bones, muscles, organs and brain development.


----------



## momo_ (Dec 15, 2014)

3Pebs3 said:


> Hey momo, try not to worry about how he will do until his crate before you see what happens. He might do fine and all that worry would have been for not. I understand you feel bad for having left him in his crate with his mess, but I also understand that it happens... you are not alone in this.. and I'm certain he won't be scarred forever.
> In terms of the poop and vomit I am sorry to hear that Sunny doesn't sound well. Thought it may be still that he did munch on something when you werent looking, and he just has a bit of an upset tummy (I refer back to Rundles 3am vomit). She is totally fine. Pooping normally. Anyways let us know what the vet says. I am hoping Sunny is alright!
> Are you still giving him pumpkin with this meals? I really do find giving Rundle half a tablespoon of pumpkin with her meals helps keep her firmer while she eats grass, twigs, leaves and everything else on the ground outside.
> Best wishes!


I feel bad that he was probably desperately rattling and I wasn't there to help him. He might feel like rattling is no use and will just go next time. My mum thinks we should stop crate-training, allow him free-roam of downstairs at night and we'll at least hear the bell if he really needs to go. Only problem is he some nights he wakes up at 3-4am to have a chew and wants to empty his bladder too. Better than a distressed puppy pooping in his bedroom though.  

So at the vet today, I explained the situation. Btw, when I hosed down the poop on his bed, parts of it were really solid, so it wasn't diarrhea or really wet, just a little loose and semi-formed. 

She doesn't think it's TOTW, because if it was a bad bag he would've reacted to it earlier, not 2 weeks in. Makes sense right? I'm really hoping it's not TOTW either because both the vet and I have commented about how his coat is looking much better, his skin is fine, his teeth are great, no more gunky ears and he doesn't scratch/chew himself excessively like he used to! 
We talked about treats. I have stopped feeding bully sticks, yoghurt cubes, peanut butter, dog cookies, anything that I feel might be too much for him. 
Though 2 days ago, I introduced new treats. They're duck sticks by "Yours Droolly". They are marketed as healthy, natural sweets. I thought they were harmless but brought them along anyway. The vet checked the ingredients list. *SORBITOL*. It's an artificial sweetener used in gum and toothpaste, and apparently some dog treats. It's not toxic like xylitol, but can cause diarrhoea in both dogs and human if too much is consumed. He's had about 6 little sticks total in the spam of 2 days. The vet says the treats were introduced within a timeframe that would cause a reaction today. Who thought a small amount of a treat with limited ingredients would cause such distress?! 

$130 later, she gave him an injection to stop nausea, and advised I fast him for 24 hours, then chicken and rice for 3-4 days, then slowly add his kibble. He came home and had mucusy diarrhea. 

Once I start adding his kibble, I will do an isolation test - no treats whatsoever, not even his dehydrated sweet potatoes, for around 4-5 days to make sure it's not TOTW. 

Poor bugger. I would've waited until the next day but it's vet's not open and I would hate for him to be sick the whole weekend. 

I'm really glad Rundle is okay though!!! Gee it's really scary when they puke. Feels bad.


----------



## Rundlemtn (Jan 16, 2015)

momo_ said:


> I feel bad that he was probably desperately rattling and I wasn't there to help him. He might feel like rattling is no use and will just go next time. My mum thinks we should stop crate-training, allow him free-roam of downstairs at night and we'll at least hear the bell if he really needs to go. Only problem is he some nights he wakes up at 3-4am to have a chew and wants to empty his bladder too. Better than a distressed puppy pooping in his bedroom though.
> The vet says the treats were introduced within a timeframe that would cause a reaction today. Who thought a small amount of a treat with limited ingredients would cause such distress?!


We don't crate Rundle at all anymore. She has been fantastic. Sleeps the whole night through, wakes up with the sun, and then wakes me up by putting her head on the bed. Then we go outside together. Come back inside, and lately have been going back to sleep since the sun comes up around 5am right now. The one night she did have diarrhea she woke me up too. Ever since I have decided to stop crating Rundle everyone has been sleeping better. 

Stupid treats. We have been very careful about what we give Rundle ever since the raw bone event that proceeded the week long diarrhea. We really only give her things that we know she is okay with, or very very small amounts of things that are new. I am also nervous about diarrhoea reappearing. But, being very strict about what she gets has really helped a lot.


----------



## momo_ (Dec 15, 2014)

3Pebs3 said:


> We don't crate Rundle at all anymore. She has been fantastic. Sleeps the whole night through, wakes up with the sun, and then wakes me up by putting her head on the bed. Then we go outside together. Come back inside, and lately have been going back to sleep since the sun comes up around 5am right now. The one night she did have diarrhea she woke me up too. Ever since I have decided to stop crating Rundle everyone has been sleeping better.
> 
> Stupid treats. We have been very careful about what we give Rundle ever since the raw bone event that proceeded the week long diarrhea. We really only give her things that we know she is okay with, or very very small amounts of things that are new. I am also nervous about diarrhoea reappearing. But, being very strict about what she gets has really helped a lot.



If I don't crate Sunny, he sometimes asks to go out at around 5am too which I feel is a little too early! It's only once in a while he'll ask to go out in the middle of the night, and that's usually to poop. Most of the time he will not wake up or ask to go outside until 7am, so I also feel like not crating is better. They're not stressed about being confined and have freedom to change sleeping positions easier. It's just that the breeder's daughter re-crate-trained him while Sunny was staying with her and I thought I should continue with it for another few months at least..

Aww putting their sweet heads on the bed is so cute!!! 

I'll definitely be checking ingredients now. I thought I was being strict with his treats but obviously not strict enough..


----------



## momo_ (Dec 15, 2014)

> Be careful about feeding a puppy low fat or low protein, the need both for bones, muscles, organs and brain development.


Good point! But it would only be fed during periods of diarrhoea, which would be maybe 5 days max.. what about the kibble mixed with chicken and rice?
I haven't gone out to buy it yet. Still going to stick with plain chicken and rice for now.


----------



## Rundlemtn (Jan 16, 2015)

momo_ said:


> Good point! But it would only be fed during periods of diarrhoea, which would be maybe 5 days max.. what about the kibble mixed with chicken and rice?
> I haven't gone out to buy it yet. Still going to stick with plain chicken and rice for now.


It's not like chicken and rice provides a lot of fat either. I think it would be more than fine for 5 days. You could always check with your vet if you were really worried about it.


----------



## momo_ (Dec 15, 2014)

Wow so a long reply I typed out did not go through. *Sigh* 

I couldn't wait the 24-hour fast. My parents were giving me s*** for it and I also felt bad seeing his sad and hungry face walk in and out. I took a nap upstairs between 3:30-6pm while Sunny stayed downstairs with my parents. As soon as I woke up, I ran downstairs to give him half of his chicken and rice to make sure he would digest it properly, then I'd give him the rest in 2 hours. It was a 12-hour fast. I wish I had waited altogether, because after his dinner, I went outside to check for poops. The first was wet and semi-formed, though not diarrhea. Hosed it down to find a tumbleweed of grass and a small piece of tissue. Then the second pile I found was definitely diarrhea - couldn't make out if it was diarrhea or vomit. Then 15 minutes after dinner, he went again, and it was a small amount of diarrhea with BLOOD in it. It was like a string of blood clot. Oh God. I should've waited the full 24 hours to allow his stomach to settle properly but I interrupted the process and may have to start the fast all over again. I feel so incompetent. Fingers crossed things improve tomorrow because there's no vet tomorrow... :'(


----------



## Rundlemtn (Jan 16, 2015)

I can't believe that a few treats would cause bloody diarrhea! And this fast! Makes me wonder if maybe there is something more going on. Any improvement yet?


----------



## momo_ (Dec 15, 2014)

3Pebs3 said:


> I can't believe that a few treats would cause bloody diarrhea! And this fast! Makes me wonder if maybe there is something more going on. Any improvement yet?


Hoping it's the treats and nothing serious  
No poops for the past 24 hours now. It's a good sign. Every time he's had a round of diarrhea and put on chicken and rice, he goes 30-50 hours without a poop then it's solid (touch wood). I guess it's an improvement!


----------



## momo_ (Dec 15, 2014)

Update: After 4 days of chicken and rice with great solid poops, we ran out of his chicken meat at training school and had to use a bit of their treats. The next morning - diarrhoea. JUST that once, then nothing for the whole day, still only giving chicken and rice. Started introducing his kibble the next morning. This is now day 5 of Taste of the Wild, and his poops have been solid and great, until agility class today... BIG mushy poop during class, then cow patty diarrhoea after class. This may have been from the Nexgard flea/tick chew I gave him earlier today, as well as from eating his own poop at around 4pm. He hasn't done that for a while! Before I could stop him, he'd cleaned it all up with the proudest look on his face. ****** Sunny. Didn't give him dinner. Will feed chicken and rice tomorrow. His diarrhoea should clear up in a day. Hopefully! Would I have to do a gradual transition to TOTW again or should he adjust okay? 

Eurgh... he NEVER goes a full week without getting diarrhoea somehow!


----------



## Rundlemtn (Jan 16, 2015)

Sorry I was away and could not respond before... how is Sunny doing now?


----------



## momo_ (Dec 15, 2014)

We do not go a full week without him getting diarrhoea at least once! 

I was gonna say he's doing great, I was super excited about the first 2 poops of today, but just then he had really sloppy poop, probably from the junk he's been eating. If he does get soft stools, it usually clears up in a day. The vet said he'll probably always get loose stools every now and then, and it's nothing to worry about. 

On average days, his poops seem to gradually become softer throughout the day. I've heard of this happening to some pups before. I wonder if it's because the active body gets things moving faster, but when he's sleeping at night it allows time for things to firm up?


----------



## Rundlemtn (Jan 16, 2015)

Ah ya the softer towards the end of the day was happening to Rundle for awhile too. Adding pumpkin to her meals helped with this. She too eats sticks, grass, dirt and leaves on a daily basis. Do you still give him pumpkin at all? Now she is okay without the pumpkin. But, I still usually do give her a frozen, yogurt/pumpkin/kibble kong once a day. 

I do find if Rundle has been really active (e.g. at the dog park), she usually has a soft stool once we leave. I met someone else who calls it the activity poopy. But, its usually not to the degree of diarrhea. Not sure if this helps at all.

BTW for some reason the words sloppy poopy really struck me as funny. Thanks for the update!


----------



## thorbreafortuna (Jun 9, 2013)

Yes, there is such a thing as excitement loose poop and also the intense activity poop. It would not be all out diarrhea but it can be soft and messy. We get it once in a while when we have a particularly fun and exciting time on the trails.


----------



## momo_ (Dec 15, 2014)

> Ah ya the softer towards the end of the day was happening to Rundle for awhile too. Adding pumpkin to her meals helped with this. She too eats sticks, grass, dirt and leaves on a daily basis. Do you still give him pumpkin at all? Now she is okay without the pumpkin. But, I still usually do give her a frozen, yogurt/pumpkin/kibble kong once a day.
> 
> I do find if Rundle has been really active (e.g. at the dog park), she usually has a soft stool once we leave. I met someone else who calls it the activity poopy. But, its usually not to the degree of diarrhea. Not sure if this helps at all.
> 
> BTW for some reason the words sloppy poopy really struck me as funny. Thanks for the update!


I recently read that pumpkin acts as both a stool firmer AND softener. I think for Sunny, it acts as a softener.  I haven't giving it to him for months now, but use mashed sweet potato instead. It doesn't seem to help or make things worse. I'd like to start giving him treats again, the usual yoghurt and peanut butter kong, but he hasn't had those for a month. And no bully stick for months. Poor guy. Even without treats he gets runny poo because he's always eating sticks, grass and whatnot. I hose down his poops and usually there's a tumbleweed of debris! 

I have a bit of dumb question: is it possible for foreign material to build up inside like a dam, or does it eventually all get passed? Day 3, still no sign of the plastic peg bit or plastic bag. I'm not too worried yet as long as he's getting solid poops at least once a day, not vomiting, not acting sick, still eating food like a little piggy...

Don't thank me, thank YOU for listening to my poo rants! It's nice to talk about it. My boyfriend thinks I'm crazy.  




> Yes, there is such a thing as excitement loose poop and also the intense activity poop. It would not be all out diarrhea but it can be soft and messy. We get it once in a while when we have a particularly fun and exciting time on the trails.


Sunny gets soft poop EVERY TIME we're at doggy school or the park. Every time. So I'm guessing that's where the "excitement loose poop" comes in because he gets it even if we just got there! Interesting to know, definitely puts my mind at ease!


----------



## Rundlemtn (Jan 16, 2015)

momo_ said:


> I have a bit of dumb question: is it possible for foreign material to build up inside like a dam, or does it eventually all get passed? Day 3, still no sign of the plastic peg bit or plastic bag. I'm not too worried yet as long as he's getting solid poops at least once a day, not vomiting, not acting sick, still eating food like a little piggy...


Like you, I think as long as they are pooping normally most of the time, void of blood in their stool, not sick, or in pain I don't worry myself to much with the thought of blockages. You'd be surprised how long it can take these things to pass. I have seen toy bits 1 week + make their way out after being ingested. Unfortunately, their bowel doesn't operate on our schedule.


----------



## GoldinPNW (Jun 23, 2015)

My dog went through this for years on all the foods that have you have mentioned we kept ending up on Flagil pills. The only foods he could eat were Pinnincal Duck and Potato and Orjen Red. Neither have wheat or white fish. I think white fish was the issue because as soon as a food company changed their recipe and added it bam all bad. Taste of the wild has changed ingredients over the yrs they are one of the companies that got me, was good changed their fish to add a white fish in addition to salmon.... all bad. Good luck. My poor dog squirted from both ends for years poor guy.


----------



## GoldinPNW (Jun 23, 2015)

And for treats mine could only eat Wellness Peanut butter treats. Bully sticks would make him sick he could not eat anything rich like that. He could eat chicken breast, kale, carrots, almonds, green beans, lettuce etc for snacks too.


----------



## BuddyinFrance (May 20, 2015)

Have you tried a course of probiotics? Buddy is also prone to diarreah and loose stools and it really helps. I order from the pharmacy not the pet store and it is a 6 day course. Really Worth a try.


----------



## momo_ (Dec 15, 2014)

LisaP said:


> My dog went through this for years on all the foods that have you have mentioned we kept ending up on Flagil pills. The only foods he could eat were Pinnincal Duck and Potato and Orjen Red. Neither have wheat or white fish. I think white fish was the issue because as soon as a food company changed their recipe and added it bam all bad. Taste of the wild has changed ingredients over the yrs they are one of the companies that got me, was good changed their fish to add a white fish in addition to salmon.... all bad. Good luck. My poor dog squirted from both ends for years poor guy.


I've heard great things about Orijen but it's not available in Australia. I think there was a big recall that got it banned! :uhoh: Sunny has been on Taste of the Wild for around 2.5 months now. He was transitioned onto it during a 3-week course of antibiotics for a bacteria, which helped him to tolerate it just fine. If I ignore the bouts of diarrhoea once a week from eating junk, the food hasn't caused him any trouble. He was getting great solid poops from 3 cups per day. 

On the ALS lamb formula, he should be getting 5-6 cups for his age and weight, according to the bag. I know the bag usually recommends more, but I'd at least like get him to eat about 4-5. He's still quite small. I'm afraid from all the diarrhoea and diet issues during this optimal growth period, I've stunted his growth...? Or does it not work like that? 

It's possible that increasing his kibble intake from around 3.5 cups to around 4.5 cups is contributing to the soft stools.  It might be too rich for him, but at the same time I don't want to be underfeeding him. I'd consider him slightly underweight. Maybe he'll adjust to the increased quantity if I do a slow transition?


----------



## momo_ (Dec 15, 2014)

BuddyinFrance said:


> Have you tried a course of probiotics? Buddy is also prone to diarreah and loose stools and it really helps. I order from the pharmacy not the pet store and it is a 6 day course. Really Worth a try.


I've been adding a probiotic powder called Protexin (I'm assuming it's like Forti Flora) to his meals DAILY for the past 3 months! Bought a big tub of it. I bet if I didn't use it, his stools would be even worse...


----------



## momo_ (Dec 15, 2014)

Another thing - I heard it's normal for puppies to poop the amount of times they're fed +1. Sunny is fed 3 times per day, so he should poop around 4 times a day max. Before he was going around 3-4 times a day, but lately it's more like 5!
He gets ~4 cups of TOTW, plus chicken, rice, peas and some sweet potato, and more chicken for training treats. The poops are fairly big which is the main concern. I find that if for some reason we don't go to the dog park or walk, he will poop less frequently because there's no "excitement" poop. 
I know TOTW isn't 100% agreeing with him, otherwise he'd be going less frequently, with more consistently firm and smaller stools, but I'm really avoiding switching foods for at least a few more months. :uhoh:


----------



## Rundlemtn (Jan 16, 2015)

I still stand by what I said before about adding 1/2 tablespoon of pure pumpkin puree to his meals. I know you disagree, but, I strongly believe that this would make a difference.


----------



## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

Is it possible your over feeding him.


----------



## Harleysmum (Aug 19, 2014)

momo_ said:


> Another thing - I heard it's normal for puppies to poop the amount of times they're fed +1. Sunny is fed 3 times per day, so he should poop around 4 times a day max. Before he was going around 3-4 times a day, but lately it's more like 5!
> . :uhoh:


Try not to get hung up on this sort of thing. Sometimes Harley doesn't poop at all and then will do five normal poops the next day.


----------



## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

You know, it may just not be the right food for him. 
I went through that with my boy, fine until a year old, never real firm and great stools but formed and acceptable, no diarrhea., he was on Pro Plan Large Breed Puppy.
At age 12 months I decided to try TOTW pacific stream because my dachshund is on it. Bad idea, soft stools totally. I tried Earthborn - even worse and vomiting. I went back to Pro Plan brand and did the Sport 26/16, he did good on it and one day started soft stools again. I tried probiotics - they only made it worse. I had three fecal exams run this year alone, sent out to a lab - nothing found. 
I decided to eliminate corn, soy, wheat and put him on Pro Plan Naturals Turkey and Barley - no way, immediate soft stools.
So, I heard a lot of people raving about Pro Plan Sensitive Skin and Stomach and decided to try that one before switching to something totally different. Yay Success! Formed stools from the beginning and I transitioned him to only this formula in three days. He is doing great! This is also a formula with Salmon in it but he tolerates it well where he did lousy on TOTW salmon - go figure. 
Maybe you just need to find the right formula. I am thinking my boy has a definite problem with fowl for protein source.


----------



## BuddyinFrance (May 20, 2015)

Harleysmum said:


> Try not to get hung up on this sort of thing. Sometimes Harley doesn't poop at all and then will do five normal poops the next day.


It is fascinating how different our babies all are.. Buddy poops at 9am and 9pm give or take 15 minutes !


----------



## momo_ (Dec 15, 2014)

> I still stand by what I said before about adding 1/2 tablespoon of pure pumpkin puree to his meals. I know you disagree, but, I strongly believe that this would make a difference.


I use sweet potato instead and I've heard that for some dogs, it firms up stools even better than pumpkin. Doesn't seem to make a difference. Once I'm out of sweet potato, I'll try to give pumpkin another go. 
Today, I decided not to take him to the dog park or go for a walk and just play with him outside to see if he wouldn't produce a late afternoon sloppy poop as usual. But he did! 
It's always 1. solid in the morning, 2. sloppy in the afternoon, 3. soft but solid at night. 



> You know, it may just not be the right food for him.
> I went through that with my boy, fine until a year old, never real firm and great stools but formed and acceptable, no diarrhea., he was on Pro Plan Large Breed Puppy.
> At age 12 months I decided to try TOTW pacific stream because my dachshund is on it. Bad idea, soft stools totally. I tried Earthborn - even worse and vomiting. I went back to Pro Plan brand and did the Sport 26/16, he did good on it and one day started soft stools again. I tried probiotics - they only made it worse. I had three fecal exams run this year alone, sent out to a lab - nothing found.
> I decided to eliminate corn, soy, wheat and put him on Pro Plan Naturals Turkey and Barley - no way, immediate soft stools.
> ...


His poops are great when he's only fed 3 cups per day, but he's supposed to get 5-6. I suppose it's too rich for him then? We tried Pro Plan Sensitive Skin and Stomach months ago but it wasn't a fair trial since it was during a bout of diarrhoea which we figured out was from a bacteria. I did notice that his ears are much less gunky and he scratches less on TOTW, so I would like to continue with grain-free food. Should I give up on TOTW, I was thinking of switching to Earthborn Holistic but now I'm a little worried after hearing about your experience! :uhoh: 
We don't have many quality grain-free options in Australia. Only TOTW, Earthborn, Holistic Select, Artemis Osopure (fairly new and unknown though), Canidae Pure, and a few Aussie brands I'm not as willing to try.
I can't wait to find something that works for him, so I don't have to keep talking and thinking about poop all the time (for my boyfriend's sake)! 



> t is fascinating how different our babies all are.. Buddy poops at 9am and 9pm give or take 15 minutes !


You are so lucky. That must make going out and about so convenient knowing he doesn't need to poop during a car ride or at a friend's place or something


----------



## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

My question - why is he suppose to get 5-6 cups of food? How old is he? I have never had a golden that got that much food as a pup or an adult.
My Ben got 3 cups tops when he was going through growth spurt time and then I backed off to 2.5 cups. 
He will be 20 months on the 16. and he is now getting 2.5 cups of food of the Pro Plan SSS. 
I really think you are overfeeding him, stick with the three cups daily. If he is not getting too skinny on it, he is fine. You should be able to run your hands over his rib cage and feel the ribs easily with a little layer, not having to push in to find the ribs. 

Anyway, yep, don't do Earthborn. I tried one formula with my dachshund and he did horribly on it. Then another formula with Ben and he did horrible on it. So I am not impressed with Earthborn at all for such an expensive and socalled holistic food. 

If you think he does well with TOTW Pacific stream, then keep him on it - but don't feed so much unless he is gets too skinny. Overfeeding also leads to soft stools and diarrhea at times.


----------



## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

5-6 cups of food is way to much. Chloe was eating four for a short time but we have cut her back to a little over three. She is being spayed today so we may even cut back a little more. I think your over feeding him.


----------



## thorbreafortuna (Jun 9, 2013)

I do tend to agree that the many bowel movements and softer poo point to over feeding. At the same time I do see that the TOTW puppy food feeding chart does appear to recommend the amount you state, so I understand your hesitation. What if you pull back the food amount a little bit at a time until you find that he stabilizes his bowel movements? Or another approach could be to scale back to your previous feeding amount and start increasing again very slowly, stopping at the amount that he can tolerate well. 
It's important to highlight that the feeding charts are guidelines. There are individual differences in metabolic rates, growth rates and energy expenditure, so you have to listen to the signals your puppy's body is giving as well.


----------



## momo_ (Dec 15, 2014)

Hi friends,
After the crazy episode of 8 poops (including diarrhoea) in the span of 24 hours, I put him on chicken and rice for a day, then decreased kibble to 3/4 cups x3, and for the past 2 days, he's been pooping only 2-3 times per day, all solid, unless we're at the dog park. That's considerably less than the average before things got messy - that was 4-5 poops with 3-4 cups. 
Thanks everyone, safe to say I was definitely overfeeding. I'll be increasing to 1 cup x3 and stick with that. He's still getting chicken, rice, sweet potato with his meals.
If I get a week of good solid poos then I'll be happy to stick with this plan assuming he continues to maintain/gain weight. Yay!


----------



## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

Glad to hear things are going better.


----------

