# HELP!!!3 Yr old Male has dog aggression



## Charlie1 (Oct 23, 2010)

Hi everyone!
I haven't been on this sight in almost two years. But I need help, advice, and I don't know where to turn. 
First off, let me introduce Charlie. ( I am unable to add a picture here for some reason.. no idea why)
He is a 3 (almost 4 yr old GR), neutered (at 1 yr), who is an absolute dream of a companion! I brought him home at 5 months, and my ex and I had two other dogs (1 yorkie who passed away 6 months later, and a shitzu/yorkie who is now almost 8). When I brought Charlie home, the Yorkie Mickey was the Alpha of the group. He ruled the house with ease. When he passed, both Charlie and Brody (the shitzu mix) fought for alpha. As Charlie got older, he took over Alpha position. This was cemented with the two when Charlie and Brody got into it over Charlie's food dish at age 7 months. 
My hubby and I split last spring, and I moved to another home in the summer and brought both Charlie and Brody with me. But in the time period between the spring and the time I moved, Charlie began to charge the fence in the yard, and bark aggressively at whomever was walking by. And if it was another animal.. wow it got out of hand fast!

The first month was absolute hell! I never knew what was going to happen. If the dogs were not literally tripping me by sticking so close, they were scrapping. Charlie charged the fence repeatedly and got all aggressive, (barking, hair raised everything) at the dogs next door. This happened everytime he went outside. 

Brody (the shitzu) refused to eat I had to coax him with soft food, hand feeing him. etc.. 

Charlie took no pleasure in anything but walking. And boy did we walk! (I lost 10 pounds in 2 weeks from all the walking!) And when they slept, they curled up together like two kittens seeking warmth. but when they were awake. I was on edge. 

It came to a head one day when my son and I were in the back yard with the dogs, kicking the soccer ball around. Something we had done with the dogs a thousand times before. That day, Brody (the shitzu) grabbed the ball, looked at Charlie, wagged his tail and gave a little growl. (This has always been his signal to Charlie to chase him). Charlie chased him. But when Charlie got close enough to Brody to touch him, he nipped Brody's bottom, and Brody dropped the ball. 

When Brody dropped the ball, Charlie immediately attacked Brody. There was a lot of loud growling, posturing, head tossing, (from both dogs), and other than scratches no serious damage done. But it did take both my son (who is 23 yrs) and myself to separate the dogs. 

That night, the dogs curled up like little kittens again and slept. (they have never done this before and not since the first two weeks of living in the new house). 

The next morning, Charlie was eating breakfast (and I have the two separated to eat their food ever since Charlie established his food protectiveness/ Alpha dominance at age 7 months), when Brody went up to him and stuck his nose in Charlie's dish! Charlie lost it. Brody fought back but I had to break up the fight. I ended up bringing Brody into the vet to get checked out as he had four puncture wounds on his behind from Charlie. 

The first thing the vet asked was what had changed. I told him I left my hubby and moved to a different house. He said ok, this is normal, dogs are out of place just as much as I was. And to remember if I was depressed, so where the dogs. They will get over this. Have patience, they will be friends again. And they were... but it took a few more weeks of worrying and finally agreeing to give Brody to my ex.

On the Friday that I talked to my ex and said I was going to bring Brody to him on the following morning, I came home after work, and both dogs were excited, happy, eating normally, they were ok again! 

I immediately called my ex and said I changed my mind and was keeping both dogs (much to the disappointment of the ex.. too bad!) 

Things went back to normal. Both Charlie and Brody got along, they are eating properly, they are enjoying their daily walks and play times. (Winter is always harder for walks, but with the exception of the weather hitting -30 Celcius, I had both dogs - or at the very least Charlie if Brody couldn't take the cold outside), and now that it is spring (or almost again), I am ramping up the walking time again. 

Here is my problem. (Sorry for the long history)...
I went to my best friends house tonight, and visited for four hours. I brought both Charlie and Brody with me today. She has a female puppy (poodle cross) who is absolutely adorable. Charlie loves her. He has played with her previously at my house and at her house.

He played with her in the house, outside in the yard, and when we took the dogs for a walk (for an hour), they loved it. After the walk, we were sitting at the kitchen table drinking coffee. Talking. 

Charlie was about two feet from me, and her puppy came up and went to pick up a stuffed toy in front of him. Charlie immediately attacked. She yelped and ran, and he didn't really go after her, but I didn't give him a chance to. 

My girlfriend and her hubby went after the puppy, and I hustled Charlie out onto the deck in the back yard. He kept trying to get past me, but I shoved him outside. In the meantime, my girlfriends hubby had to shove Brody (the shitzu) away because he also tried to go after the puppy. I barked an order to Brody and he immediately lay down with his tail tucked in between his legs and didn't move. 

I went to my girlfriend and her hubby and checked on the puppy. There was blood all over my girlfriend's arm. The puppy's little nose was bleeding from the inside. Charlie's tooth snagged it. (This is now 4 hours after the attack, and the puppy is fine, her nose is not bleeding, the wound has clotted, and she is sleeping curled up on the couch with my girlfriend and her hubby).

I confirmed that there was not a lot of damage. That the puppy did not need vet assistance, and apologizing profusely, and immediately took my dogs home. I felt sick with fear. Oh the pup is fine. Traumatized. She wont fully trust Charlie for awhile I bet, but I am terrified that Charlie is going to continue down this path and it is going to get worse and worse. 

I called my uncle who has trained pitbulls, and his advise is the following:

1. Charlie and Molly (the puppy) do not see each other for two weeks. 
2. ON the 3rd week, they see each other (leashed) in neutral territory. 
3. On the 4th week, (with my uncle here to help if need be) bring Molly to my house and have Charlie leashed at all times. 
4. Recreate the scenario.
5. Have Molly play with Charlie's ball in the back yard. 
6. Bring her in the house, and take him outside and have Charlie play with his ball in the back yard. 
7. Have my son bring Molly out to the back yard once Charlie is hyped up, and get her involved. 
8. ME Body tackle Charlie to the ground and pin him down until he submits (thus showing him that attacking another dog has consequences). My uncle is willing to do this for me, but he feels that since Charlie is my dog and listens to me. I should be the one to re-enforce this not him. 

This should stop him from ever attacking again. 

While I agree that the aggressiveness HAS to stop, my concern is that this might make it worse than it already is. But the other option is to keep Charlie on a leash for the rest of his life, and never trust him not to attack another dog for something like a toy. 

And from what I have read, you can never trust that a dog who has attacked another dog in the past will never do it again...

My uncle stated that the reason why he attacked is because Charlie walked into my girlfriends house, saw this little pup and immediately thought to himself, yep this is easy. I am king in this house. And when the pup actually had the nerve to touch one of her toys that he was enjoying, he had to put her in her place. Similar to how a wolf leader would do to its pack beneath him. 

Logically this makes sense. And in hindsight that is exactly what we saw. But.... does establishing MY dominance over him really stop the aggression? Or will I have a dog that is aggressive at the turn of a hat for the rest of his life? 

I have never had a dog that has aggression like this. 99.9% of the time he is absolutely great. Gets along with everyone. He has never bit a person, he loves my granddaughter (2 years) to bits.. and when she falls and gets hurt, he sits beside her and sticks his big head in there trying to lick her tears.. he even whines... So this is stumping me. 

I need advise from my fellow GR parents please!!! I am willing to try anything!
Thanks for your help in advance.. 

Tammy


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

I'm really sorry you have to deal with this. What a traumatic problem. 

Knowing Charlie is dog aggressive, you shouldn't let him off leash around other dogs. You have multiple instances of Charlie being the aggressor and doing real damage to another animal. 

You SHOULD have Charlie checked out fully by the vet. Don't let them brush this off. Sudden appearance of aggression is so,etching to be concerned about. Have them run a full thyroid panel. I believe low thyroid levels can cause aggressive. 

If everything healthy wise checks out, go to a veterinary behaviorist. It's a vet that has advanced degrees in animal behavior. They will be able to help you more than your uncle will. 

Honestly, I think Charlie needs leadership. That is NOT dominance. I'm not talking about physically making him submit to you. That WILL make things worse. You don't want to do that. 

Do you correct Charlie when he starts getting to that threshold? Have you been working with him while he is still below that threshold? A behaviorist will be able to help you with this. 

Knowing what you know. You cannot allow the fights to start. Until you get progress with the vet, I recommend the dogs are never loose alone. Keep Charlie leashed or crated and rotate them around so everyone has equal time out of the crate. 

It might be in Brody's best interest to be rehomed to your ex. So you can give Charlie the time, attention, and training he needs. 


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## Charlie1 (Oct 23, 2010)

I do correct Charlie when he gets to that threshold. Normally this is not a problem as I live alone with my dogs and my son. I have been working with him, but I honestly have the feeling that I may be over my head on this. And yes I agree that a behaviorlist could direct me down the right path. This is the kind of advise I need. 
He is due to go see the vet for his check up soon I will bring this up to him when we go. I will have him check his thyroid levels as well. 
In the meantime, my plan is of course not to let him off leash, watch him like a hawk, and walk, walk, walk him. 
I have tried putting Charlie in a crate, he has hurt himself getting out of the crate. Torn gums, wrecked paws. I got rid of the crate. 
I will call the vet and find out if I can get in faster.  


I have spoken to my ex, and he said that the problem is mine alone. I wanted the dogs, I get them. This is typical of him, if it doesn't suit him, he doesn't want the issue. (Which is why I took Brody with me in the first place).


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## shepherdpal (Oct 8, 2013)

Agree with Brave. Charlie sounds like he is a resource guarder so also be careful to keep food toys away when other dogs are around 

My German Shepherd is a bit that way too. When playing with other dogs he is fine playing chase and wrestling if no toys are part game


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

There are a few problems with our uncles plan. The first is that it will put Molly in harm's way, there is no way to be sure that if Charlie goes after her you will be able to get there in time to prevent any injuries, physical or mental. As a puppy, you need to be very careful to be sure she only has good interactions with other dogs. Second, tackling Charlie and pinning him will not prevent him from going after other dogs. I walked with and frequently babysit a friend's dog who loses his temper with other dogs. I have tackled this dog at least six times and held him down until the other dog was safe and this dog was under control. The dog is nearly 12 and I had to tackle him earlier this month. Luckily for me, this dog has never injured another dog and he has never shown ANY signs of redirecting the aggression toward me. The last problem is that Charlie may redirect and bite you. I hae been bitten when I pulled a dog off my late Dexy. The dog attacking him wheeled around and got me in the wrist. It would have been worse, but my watch strap protected the eins and arteries wrist.

At the very least, I would keep Charlie on leash and under control when in the vicinity of any potential high value item that he may resource guard, and remember, that is what he considers a high value object. Good Luck!


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## Leslie B (Mar 17, 2011)

I think you nailed it when you said that you are over your head. Charlie has sensed the lack of leadership in the household and the changed family dynamics. From your description of Charlie as a younger dog it is apparent that he is a dog that is always looking for the opportunity to challenge the ranking in an effort to move up the ladder. Dogs like this are hard to live with in general. Add into it that you somewhat allowed the Charlie and Brody to work out their own hierarchy in the past. It is a dangerous mix you have on your hands and it is much more dangerous than you think. The next step (and there will be one) will be fights with damage and it could easily escalate to a human bite.

After a trip to the vet to determine if he is healthy, hire a behaviorist to evaluate Charlie in your home. Be sure to let the behaviorist know that you want WHATEVER is in Charlies best interest. If rehoming is best then the behaviorist should be free to tell you that. Please listen to the behaviorist over your uncle.

I would not take Charlie with you to anyones home that has a dog. Period. Not now and probably never again. I would find a way at home to contain him. If a crate does not work then I would put up an x pen that separates him from Brody unless you are right there with them. Last, I would put away all the toys unless you take them out to play with one dog or the other – do not play with the two of them together plus toys. Brody deserves to be safe in his own home too. 

There is no ‘fixing’ this behavior. Charlie is a dominant dog and that will not change. The best you can do is to manage him and his environment to keep everyone safe. You need to ask yourself if you are up to this very big challenge.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Please do not go through with your uncle's plan, I promise you it will not fix the problem and will in all likelihood make him worse.

I agree with Leslie B., you need to find a certified animal behaviorist and have them evaluate Charlie. Then follow the plan they lay out to manage him. 

In the meantime, please do not endanger other dogs by taking Charlie to their home or having them at yours, and I would be hyper vigilant watching him with Brody as well. He has already proven is more than willing to go after Brody, and more than likely will again.


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## goldy1 (Aug 5, 2012)

Oh how I feel for you ! 

Please do not go thru with your uncle's plan. He means well and wants to help you (God bless him) but it's not the way.

You need a behaviorist to help you. Don't go it alone. There are hundreds of books on the subject. For starters, try "Decoding Your Dog" (link below).

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Decoding-Your-Dog-Ultimate-Behaviors/dp/0547738919/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1396054134&sr=8-1&keywords=decoding+your+dog"]http://www.amazon.com/Decoding-Your-Dog-Ultimate-Behaviors/dp/0547738919/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1396054134&sr=8-1&keywords=decoding+your+dog[/ame]

I have been involved with some fantastic positive trainers so they do exist. For now, take a deep breath. I've been there. You will get a lot of advice here. Many of us have been through it so keep a positive outlook. The energy you have, the dogs will feel.


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## Lilliam (Apr 28, 2010)

Several wise points above. 

Please do not follow your uncle's plan.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Your best bet in helping Charlie is to seek out professional advice from a certified canine behaviorist who uses only reward based training methods. Someone who can do a one on one assessment of him, and tell you whether Charlie is a 'dominant' dog (which I doubt) or a dog who is totally confused and anxious about what is going on his life, and help you set up a training program specifically for Charlie. 
Because Charlie has bitten and injured other dogs, and there have been repeated incidents of 'resource guarding' behavior resulting in an 'over the top' reaction from Charlie, 'on line' advice is not your best resource to helping him and resolving his issues. You need to understand not only 'what' Charlie is doing, but 'why' (the underlying reasons) he is doing it, in order to appropriately work with Charlie, while minimizing/eliminating the risk of making his problems worse.


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## goldy1 (Aug 5, 2012)

Charliethree said:


> Your best bet in helping Charlie is to seek out professional advice from a certified canine behaviorist who uses only reward based training methods. Someone who can do a one on one assessment of him, and tell you whether Charlie is a 'dominant' dog (which I doubt) or a dog who is totally confused and anxious about what is going on his life, and help you set up a training program specifically for Charlie.
> Because Charlie has bitten and injured other dogs, and there have been repeated incidents of 'resource guarding' behavior resulting in an 'over the top' reaction from Charlie, 'on line' advice is not your best resource to helping him and resolving his issues. You need to understand not only 'what' Charlie is doing, but 'why' (the underlying reasons) he is doing it, in order to appropriately work with Charlie, while minimizing/eliminating the risk of making his problems worse.


 I agree with Charliethree. I don't believe the incidents you describe are caused by dominance. Please look for a professional to evaluate and personalize a program for Charlie.


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## Charlie1 (Oct 23, 2010)

Thank you all for your advice. I will do my best to reply to all of you in this one post. 

Here is an update: I took Charlie to the vet I have known him for quite a few years and trust him impeccably. We talked for a bit, while he did his physical assessment of Charlie. I had Charlie sit for him while he examined his teeth, his ears, his eyes. Charlie remained friendly, and while he wasn’t crazy about the light in his eyes, he stayed. He did run a full thyroid panel as well as some other blood work and told me I would hear from him soon. But from what he can see, there is absolutely nothing wrong with Charlie. 

I relayed to him the issue that is occurring. And he asked how Charlie's relationship with Brody is like now. I said they are getting along great again. 

I told him what my uncle said (and he knows my uncle from years ago when they worked together with the K9 unit in the city – my uncle for training and my vet was the city’s K9 vet at the time), and while he understands where my uncle is coming from, he disagrees as he feels that my uncle does not know my dog like he should otherwise he wouldn’t even suggest that. I personally got the feeling that he wanted to say more and came out and asked him to continue. He said that while he respected my uncle in the past he has not always agreed with some of his methods. He has seen the results of scenarios such as what my uncle suggested, and he feels that it just made the issue much more worse than it had to be. 
I confessed of my misgivings on the scenario that my uncle suggested, and said, you know me, that’s not how I work with my dogs. And ever since my uncle suggested this scenario I have felt a pit of ache in my gut about it. I have decided that I will NOT be doing it. He was happy to hear that. 

Since my vet knows me inside and outside his office he has been able to see how I am with my dogs, how I correct them, interact with them etc. He told me that the best thing that I could do for Charlie was to bring him back to the basics. Put him through beginner training, cement everything. Bring Charlie back to where he doesn’t even question mom when I say to “come, sit, stay,” etc. He said to give Charlie back his leader. 

He also said that while I am working with Charlie, look at him with new eyes. Learn his signals again. See if there is a signal that is “new” compared to when I first trained him. And when I am not working with him with the training, keep an eye on him with Brody and watch his level of excitement. When they are playing, when I feel the level is getting to high, call Charlie to me, and make him lay down and relax. Time out for the boy. Make him stay for a few minutes to five minutes. Have him calm again, (tongue hanging out, relaxed). He said that will give both Charlie and Brody a chance to calm down. 

And he has seen me step in and stop things from getting to a high level of excitement. He said that if I watched them all the time, watched Charlie for his level of excitement to climb, I would see what his “break” is. He said he has seen me step in prior to the level of excitement becoming to high with Charlie, and he has complete confidence that I can watch Charlie and get him to come to me and relax with no problems. 

He also mentioned something that startled me and as I am now aware of it, have discovered he is right… He has seen Brody instigate Charlie. And he advised that I watch for that. 

He feels that it is resource guarding. Not dominance. But he also feels that it is just simply a level of excitement that peaks. Let me explain. If there are no toys involved, Charlie does get excited, but not as fast, and we see a dog that is happy, growling in excitement, butt in the air, tail wagging, legs flailing, his whole body is bouncing with excitement. When a toy (lets throw in a ball), is around, his level of alertness is high. He is totally fixed on that ball. And he will chase after that ball to the exclusion of playing with Brody. To the point that Brody will chase after Charlie and nip as he goes by. So I tend to only throw the ball in the field when I only have Charlie. It allows him to do one of his favorite things and wears him out nicely. 

He gave me the number of a good friend of his who is a canine behaviorist. I met with him yesterday in my home. He was at our house for a few hours, observing how Charlie is with Brody, how I am with Charlie, the entire atmosphere. I received a lot of good advice from him, as well as hope. I no longer feel in over my head which is good. 

I told him what has been happening, and that my vet checked him out and all the blood work came back fine (yes he is good!). And I told him of my uncles scenario to this issue. He asked if I was planning to do that and if so, why was he hired. I said no, I wasn’t planning on doing it, and that at the time when I spoke to my uncle I was panicking and freaking out. I said since then cooler heads have prevailed and I have made steps to ensure that this is controlled and doesn’t occur again. To me, (the sick feeling in my gut) says that my uncle’s scenario will make this issue worse, and could break Charlie. I have never raised any dog harshly and that seems to be harsh. 

I told the behaviorist that I needed his advice and he came highly recommended. I also told him that I am willing to hear anything. My concern is Charlie’s wellbeing. 

He gave me a plan on how to manage him, yes bring him back to the basics in training was big. While he said yes Charlie is trained, but he sees that I allow things to slip. And he said that dogs file that information away for the next time. If the training and discipline isn’t consistent then the dogs begins to push the limits. 

He witnessed the “fence fighting” that Charlie and Brody do, and suggested putting Charlie on a leash when I take him outside and walk him to his “spot” let him do his business and bring him back into the house. Charlie always darts to the fence when I let him out to pee. If I notice that he is doing it when I am outside in the yard with him (say I am doing gardening), bring him into the house with me for a few minutes, then put him on my 20 foot lead and tie him to my waist. Make him be with me. He asked if he has ever met the dogs on the other side of the fence, and I said yes, and they loved each other. He also mentioned my energy. He said that while I am working with my dogs, I am calm. But when I see Charlie (and/or Brody) fence fighting, I seem instantly embarrassed (which I am), he said I need to take a deep breath and just calmly remove Charlie (and/or Brody from the fence and bring them inside. 

He does not believe that Charlie needs to be rehomed, I asked about that. He feels that with the plans he has laid out for me things will become more of an even keel again. His biggest thing was that I needed to step up on my leadership with the dogs, both dogs, not just Charlie. And I had to make sure that the dogs fall back into line (training and discipline have to be more consistent so that there is no confusion of pushing of the limits). 

He asked about exercise, eating habits (do I give them human – are they allowed to beg etc). I gave him a run down on the exercise and said no. No human food as Charlie has allergy to wheat, and that Brody has had skin conditions (rash) and neither needed human food. He suggested that I take Brody and Charlie for walks (yes continue walking them together as a pack), and when it gets nicer that I should once again start taking Charlie out with my bike for the runs. That will do a lot in draining his energy. 

He doesn’t believe that crating Charlie will help, in fact he feels that with the relationship that Charlie and Brody have it would make them both too anxious. He advices that the toys be removed while I am at work to eliminate resource guarding. He agreed that the plan to work with Charlie with the basics and getting him to come to me and relax and watching vigilantly while Charlie is playing with Brody will work. He does not feel that he is a bad dog, just simply needing to have more direction from me. 

He feels that since my break with my ex that I have not been as vigilant with Charlie as I was prior to moving. (I had mentioned that I watched Charlie like a hawk prior to moving out because my ex had a major issue with him.. he was too big.. bull in a china shop was his wording.. and he was all over Charlie and would kick him in ribs if he got to close.. so I was hyper watchful and spent a lot of time with both Charlie and Brody away from ex). And the behaviorist feels that while I obviously do not need to be that hyper watchful with them, I should step it up and both dogs will notice it. 

I am left with a lot of advice from him, good news from the vet, a direction of training and best of all reasons for the behaviour. I have another meeting with him set up in a few weeks to see how Charlie's progress is coming along, and what needs to be tweaked. So am feeling very positive about this. I don’t feel like I am in over my head anymore, that this is something both Charlie and I (and even Brody) can work on and turn around. 

Thank you for all your helpful advice and direction. I will keep you updated.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

:appl::appl::appl::appl::appl::appl:

Bravo! Seriously, I applaud you for all the work you stepped up and already put into Charlie and Brody. This is perfect, and I am sure your efforts will be greatly rewarded. Your dogs are lucky to have you. You also have a great vet. 

I'm looking forward to some really wonderful updates.


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## shepherdpal (Oct 8, 2013)

Wow you have a great vet! Good advice that many of us can benefit from ( at least I can) as I have a GSD that behaves similar to Charlie


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## aussieresc (Dec 30, 2008)

Charlie has been given too many opportunities to practice this behavior. At this point he should not be allowed around other dogs until you can read his behavior and be sure you know what his triggers are. I agree with the others who mention resource guarding. I would not feed the dogs near each other and toys should be put way. If you are playing ball with one then the other should be in the house.

Your uncle's plan concerns me greatly. A trainer or behaviorist is a better option for working with him. 

I hate to have to say this but you may need to consider placing Charlie in a home where he will be an only dog.


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