# Waiting to neuter is difficult



## SMBC (Jul 31, 2012)

Champ is now 10 1/2 months and still intact...and it's getting increasingly more difficult to keep him that way. On a daily basis, I go back and forth in my mind, weighing the benefits and drawbacks, and gathering unsolicited advice from those who are quick to dispense it. But..I am stuck. We originally planned to wait until at least 18 months, per the advice of our breeder and our vet, but I also feel like there are so many reasons to do it now. Let me outline my thoughts for you and I really hope to get some advice on this issue...

Benefits:
-The infamous UC Davis study on the benefits of waiting to neuter to prevent joint issues in Goldens.
-Most other countries don't neuter...I'm sure there's a reason
-I want him to grow to his full potential 
-The main benefit is to decrease any joint or health issues related that could come from early neutering. 
BOTTOM LINE: I want a healthy dog

Drawbacks:
-Limited socialization because other dogs are mean to him and attack him...this is the BIGGEST drawback and is the most upsetting
-Increased humping-he has now humped two male dogs on separate occasions, only after playing for awhile and our trainer thinks it was related to pent up energy as opposed to dominance or sexual interest, but I can't help but wonder if it is related to him being intact. He hasn't humped anything else or displayed humping behavior
-He's a pretty exuberant boy, but the vet thinks he will always be that way regardless of neutering or not. But, I am hoping that neutering calms him down, even if just a bit
-Roaming-he ran out of the house today and I don't necessary think that's roaming, I think he was just being defiant, but it's something I worry about.
-He has a rash on his testicles and this is being treated, but of course the simple solution would be to neuter...and honestly that's the least of our problems so it's not even a consideration, but wanted to share it
-Increased growling and barking at objects and some people (although only a handful) and I don't know if this relates to the excess testosterone or what. He will bark at objects he isn't sure of and only a handful of times has barked at people, usually males that are staring at him and not petting him, or gardeners...he hates them
BOTTOM LINE: The limited socialization is the worst and honestly probably relates to the pent up energy that causes the humping. While he remains in tact we have to steer clear of most dogs and it's hard because we always wanted a dog that could be with any other dog, and that is not the case for Champ while he remains in tact, not because he doesn't like other dogs but because most other dogs don't like him due to him being intact.

So those are the thoughts that go through my head daily...and I keep trying to weigh my options. I guess I have to say it would be so easy to go ahead and neuter him to get rid of or prevent these drawbacks that we deal with on a daily basis, but it is so important to be to have a healthy dog and that is what is preventing me from neutering him now.

I would really appreciate any advice you can offer! Thanks!


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## dezymond (May 3, 2012)

Definitely understand where you're coming from. As practically a daily visitor of our local dog park, I had Maverick neutered to avoid any issues. The ones intact at our local park are as sweet as can be, but they get unwanted attention from newer dogs. I personally had Maverick neutered for his safety and so far he's been as healthy as can be as my vet said. 

His best buddy now is a almost 3yr old lab who was neutered about 5mo ago. He has since calmed down alot and has stopped trying to mount every dog. Every now and then there's shades of the old Mickey, but for the most part he's calmed down a bit. What's weird too is he and Maverick play the whole time whereas before they barely sniffed each other when Mickey was intact. 

Are there any doggy friends of Champ you can have playdates with? I know it's difficult as most doggy get-togethers don't allow intact dogs. 

Champ is still quite young, so maybe the barking and growling could be due to a little fear period. Barking at objects he isn't sure of is a pretty natural thing for dogs to do, but if he is aggressive towards these objects or people, that's a behavior issue you may want to monitor.


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## MrsKuhn (Aug 22, 2013)

Hugs. I am of no help here but we also plan to wait till as close to 18 months as we can. But if your extremely stressed about it, wait another month or two if you can and do it. Sounds like it might be better for him and you. 

Hugs 


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## SMBC (Jul 31, 2012)

dezymond said:


> Definitely understand where you're coming from. As practically a daily visitor of our local dog park, I had Maverick neutered to avoid any issues. The ones intact at our local park are as sweet as can be, but they get unwanted attention from newer dogs. I personally had Maverick neutered for his safety and so far he's been as healthy as can be as my vet said.
> 
> His best buddy now is a almost 3yr old lab who was neutered about 5mo ago. He has since calmed down alot and has stopped trying to mount every dog. Every now and then there's shades of the old Mickey, but for the most part he's calmed down a bit. What's weird too is he and Maverick play the whole time whereas before they barely sniffed each other when Mickey was intact.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your reply! So we had a doggy play date with a 3 year old male, and things went well, until the dog no longer wanted to play and then Champ mounted him. The owner actually wants to have another play date tomorrow but I'm going to cancel...I don't want to deal with it and with Champ's rash I think it's best to hold off another week. Then, we had another play date and this woman has 3 dogs, 2 goldens and one golden doodle. Champ did really well with the young female doodle, and then played with the older golden male for awhile and then again, when that dog was done playing, Champ mounted him! So weird! We separated them because clearly Champ was annoying him. We didn't have him play with the oldest female because he was a bit too crazy and she wouldn't have stood for it...understandably so. So we have had play dates but the mounting got in the way, and it's not every time and like I said our trainer didn't think it was a big deal but now I feel like I want to avoid play dates to avoid the embarrassment if Champ decides to mount another dog! I just feel like life would be so much easier if we could neuter him then the mounting behavior went away and we could socialize him way more than we are now. What is hard is that if we are at a park with him and another dog shows up, we have to leave for fear that the other dog will turn on him. When we pass dogs on a walk, a lot of times owners will want their dog to meet Champ, but we avoid other owners because now Champ has been attacked unprovoked one too many times. As far as the barking and growling goes, it could definitely be a fear period. He has never once been aggressive toward anything or anyone but he will bark and growl. For instance we took him to our friends gym the other day and he wouldn't stop barking at the rowing machine. I took him over there to smell it, he smelled it and seemed to calm down, then we walked away and he turned around and barked at it again. With people, usually it's if they are passing by and staring at him and it's only happened a handful of times so I'm not too worried about it, but just wanted to mention that it is happening. Champ is also definitely going through a defiant period too Adolescence is so fun!

Where in the Bay Area are you? We are here too!



MrsKuhn said:


> Hugs. I am of no help here but we also plan to wait till as close to 18 months as we can. But if your extremely stressed about it, wait another month or two if you can and do it. Sounds like it might be better for him and you.
> 
> Hugs
> 
> ...


Thanks for your input! We continue to just take it day by day and obviously have made no appointment yet to do it. We are really trying to wait like you, but it's just so hard sometimes! Ultimately though his health is what is most important to me, but I do wish he could be around other dogs more and it is something that is somewhat stressful.


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## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

We had Max neutered at 8 months of age. He was sexually mature and already weighed 99 pounds. We also had thought of waiting, or never having him neutered, but he had begun humping often and was having trouble at dog park. He was a lot to handle. He is now over 3 years old and doing very well. He is definitely calmer, he does mark sometimes and will occasionally hump my leg, but not with the enthusiasm he did when he was intact.

I have done a lot of research on the subject of when to neuter. The only thing I have got out of it is it may be a good idea to wait until the dog has reached sexual maturity. I am very skeptical of the UC Davis study. My questions involves the fact that the study was done retrospectively, and only involved dogs that had been brought to the UC Davis hospital. 

Sounds like Champ has reached maturity, and as I recall, he has grown pretty big. With all the issues you are having with Champ, I see no reason why you should wait any longer. There is a good chance that neutering will help with some of the problems you are experiencing.

I would add that Max never mounts another dog now.


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## dezymond (May 3, 2012)

It could be the testosterone or it could just be normal teenager behavior. Maverick mounts some of his friends and he's been neutered for well over a year now. As long as the other dogs don't mind or at least tell him to get off then that could be a better message than intervening. 

Unfortunately, for some unsocialized dogs, it just takes the wrong look for them to get aggressive. Factor in that Champ is still intact, only adds more to that scenario. So I think it's good you don't stop and introduce. Best to just avoid that situation altogether.

You're definitely in a tough spot. I think play dates would still be the best way to socialize him, just have to intervene when he starts mounting. Another good way to socialize is through classes.


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## Colie CVT (Sep 15, 2013)

So many people get upset about the humping, lol. 

It isn't just about dominance or sexual interest. It actually is often a sign of anxiety, overexcitement or - believe it or not - bonding between the dogs! Just because one of them or both of them have been fixed, are males, etc, it doesn't matter. 

Myles grew up with a mix off a dairy named Bruce. He and Bruce are always humping one another. You should see just how into it Bruce gets actually. Myles stands still if it doesn't bother him or otherwise tells Bruce that's it and they go on with their day. These two have been best of friends since they basically grew up together. 

Myles at times when he's really excited will try to mount dogs when we're playing fetch. He gets all excited and he usually aims for the dog who's the most into what is happening, if not one of his friends who he is pretty close to. It isn't hard to get him to stop, but it's based on excitement. He gets so excited, he doesn't know what to do with himself. 

Myles got neutered around 13 months. He had actual roaming issues, though if he hadn't been shown how to break out of the fence by my roommate's dogs, he never would have had that issue. He literally would find ways to get out of the fence so he could go sniffing the empty lot behind our house. He never really went far, but we had a dog who was deaf and partly blind that lived with us for a bit, and he and Myles were best buddies lol. I often refer to them having their nuggets still as testosterone poisoning, but I have met some really very well adjusted intact dogs.

It is a challenge to bring them to a dog park. Personally I don't like them. My roommate helped set up a dog hiking group for our area (as we have TONS of hiking around the city with mostly dog off leash trails) and that, beside boarding dogs, has been the majority of socializing for our dogs. Both Myles and his lab Sully got attacked by dogs at different times at the dog park, simply for having the testosterone. Myles didn't take it personally. Sully in closed spaces or dog parks is very standoffish, very I will get you first. There's only one dog that Sully seems to have this weird humping thing for. A little terrier mix named Rocky who's in the hiking group. But we've basically figured that it's some strange bonding thing between them, because Sully usually ignores other dogs as we don't like him being a jerk lol.

I would look at the situation and evaluate why he could be humping. My guess with the older dogs is that he still wants to play, still has energy, and he wants to spend it somehow - so that ends up happening lol. I dunno. I could just be way more chill about the dogs humping other dogs thing, so long as I know it isn't going to turn into a big spat. Most of the time I haven't seen it lol. 

And I can definitely say it helps to wait. Myles has had some signs of potential elbow disease since he was a puppy. At 3.5 years, he rarely shows any signs of trouble and at 1.5 years when his elbows were CTed, they showed degenerative changes, though no reason to do anything other than exercises to strengthen his other muscles and keep in mind what he was doing physically. Some of the crazy moves he has done, he should have torn one of his CCLs. But he's perfectly sound.


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

I wouldn't cancel the playdates, though take a cue from the older dog, that when they're done playing, redirect your boy--may be a good opportunity for him to practice settle or go to his mat and learn to be around other dogs calmly. From what you describe I don't see any of the behaviors attributed to him being unaltered. Perhaps if you join a GR club or training club you could surround yourself around others with the like minded where it's perfectly ok to wait on neutering.


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## Bosn'sMom (Feb 11, 2013)

I think when to neuter is a choice you have to make when it's right for you/ your lifestyle/ and your goldens life style. We wanted to wait until one year and we did it at 10 months. The reason was because he LOVES doggy daycare and when other started to become aggressive and impact that we knew it was time. No regrets here. 


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## Mayve (Aug 21, 2012)

Just wanted to say...our foster boy Hawk...is 10 and neutered and he tries to hump Sage..but its not a dominance or sexual thing...its done in excitement from playing. I had two females who humped each other when they were playing...never aggressive etc...I think they get over excited when they play sometimes. Its actually pretty normal behavior and while I do stop it when I see it...I don't worry about it or let it embarrass me....

Neutering is a personal choice...you take all the info and decide what is best for you, your dog and your situation. 

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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

It's perfectly reasonable to neuter him now. I don't think the health benefits are all that clear cut.

That said, I don't think it'll help all that much with the behaviors you describe. It _may_, but what you're describing is an adolescent dog, not one that necessarily has too much testosterone. I'd go for more exercise, more opportunities to be around other dogs, and group classes, like a CGC class, to get him around more unfamiliar sights, people, and dogs so he can learn to be OK by himself with all of that going on around him.

As far as humping, it's one of the only things that'll draw an angry voice from me with my dogs. I know it's not all that rude in dog world, but it's on a very short list of things I just won't tolerate in my dogs. If my dog starts to hump another dog, I'll walk right over there, tell him "no" pretty sternly, and push him off the other dog. Zero tolerance for humping around here.


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## gold4me (Mar 12, 2006)

We didn't neuter Gambler until he was 4 years old. He has never humped anything, never marked in the house and he was never aggressive. About the only difference I see is on our walks he now does not pee on every tree. Our other males were neutered even older and we never had any problems. The one golden we neutered at 11 months was our most dominate male before and after being neutered. As far as socialization we always had 2 or 3 goldens and we never go to the dog park. We have dog play dates and friends that we meet for walking. I think you will just have to do what you feel is best.


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## Willow52 (Aug 14, 2009)

I know how you're feeling, we had planned to hold off neutering Hank until 18 mos. As his first birthday approached it became apparent that the next 6 mos. would be long ones. Our daughter & son-in-law have his brother, playdates suddenly turned ugly, Hank marked in the house (only once) and since we have an invisible fence I was concerned he may bolt if there was a female in heat nearby. So we made the decision to neuter at 1 year. He was physically mature and feel it was the right decison for us. 

As mentioned above, this comes down to your lifestyle and your dog's lifestyle. Try not to over think it, whatever you decide your boy will be fine.


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## Lilliam (Apr 28, 2010)

What does your contract say? That is the first consideration, in my opinion.

Personally I never neutered my border collies. I had two males in the same house with a spayed female and I never had any problems. I then brought in Max and he lived with two intact males until a year later, when one of my males died and he was left with Billy, also intact. Which means that for one year, before Dru died, I had three intact males in the house, all three mature, because Max was then eleven months.

The reasons I neutered Max were 1) it was in the contract that he should be neutered at 18 months or later 2) doggy day care required it. 

There was no humping allowed in the house. When Max tried it with Billy, he was corrected and I didn't have to do it, Billy and Dru both let him know that it was unwanted behaviour. Then he was taught at puppy class during playtime, when another puppy told him "no HELL no" and that was it. At doggy day care he was constantly supervised during play and there were never any issues there. 

I had to neuter Billy too, because of doggy day care, and he was neutered at age 10. There was no change in personality on either dog. 

I'm going to say something that may offend some, but I believe that a dog that is informed that humping is not permitted will not hump. Neutering at an early age with humping as a reason is not necessarily correct. Yes they will hump and yes they can learn not to do it. I'm not special and neither are my dogs and in all my years of dog ownership I never had a dog with a humping problem. It's either redirection or correction. Also very very very tired doggies. And friends that they have known all their lives.

I remember going to a sheepdog trial once and seeing the most amazing brace team ever. One male and one female. When they finished I noticed the handler keeping the female on a very tight leash and walked quickly away to put her in his camper. She had been in full season. No dogs reacted before, during, or after in the field. If a well trained dog can work in the same field with a female in full season then an intact male can be taught not to hump other dogs.

To neuter or not to neuter are 1) contractual and 2) personal based on one's understanding of the data and the needs of the dog and the family. But training, or the absence of it, can be just as powerful.


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## SMBC (Jul 31, 2012)

Max's Dad said:


> We had Max neutered at 8 months of age. He was sexually mature and already weighed 99 pounds. We also had thought of waiting, or never having him neutered, but he had begun humping often and was having trouble at dog park. He was a lot to handle. He is now over 3 years old and doing very well. He is definitely calmer, he does mark sometimes and will occasionally hump my leg, but not with the enthusiasm he did when he was intact.
> 
> I have done a lot of research on the subject of when to neuter. The only thing I have got out of it is it may be a good idea to wait until the dog has reached sexual maturity. I am very skeptical of the UC Davis study. My questions involves the fact that the study was done retrospectively, and only involved dogs that had been brought to the UC Davis hospital.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your reply! What you brought up about the article is interesting. In fact, at our vet there are 2 vets, one that is the dog vet and the other the cat vet although now she's starting to see dogs. The dog vet was the one who told us we should wait, and then when we were just at the vet for Champ's rash the cat vet asked why he wasn't neutered and we said something about the UC Davis study and she said she also didn't like the study because it was such a small sample and there was no indication of where these dogs were coming from or their lineage so she didn't feel it was a fair study. Champ is relatively big, he's about 77 pounds now and just a stocky boy. The vet called him a Moose 



dezymond said:


> It could be the testosterone or it could just be normal teenager behavior. Maverick mounts some of his friends and he's been neutered for well over a year now. As long as the other dogs don't mind or at least tell him to get off then that could be a better message than intervening.
> 
> Unfortunately, for some unsocialized dogs, it just takes the wrong look for them to get aggressive. Factor in that Champ is still intact, only adds more to that scenario. So I think it's good you don't stop and introduce. Best to just avoid that situation altogether.
> 
> You're definitely in a tough spot. I think play dates would still be the best way to socialize him, just have to intervene when he starts mounting. Another good way to socialize is through classes.


When he did the humping behavior with the other dogs we told him no right away and got him off of the dog. With one of the dogs in particular, he kept going back...he was so persistent and even the dog would growl, we would tell champ no, and a second later he would be back at it. I really think it had to do with over excitement and our trainer was right there the whole time and she said it was because Champ had energy he needed to release and the dog wasn't playing anymore so he thought that this was the best way. I agree that we certainly don't want him to be aggressive so we avoid other dogs that could potentially attack him. We have also thought about classes but the local humane society requires them to be neutered to join...it's ridiculous!



Colie CVT said:


> So many people get upset about the humping, lol.
> 
> It isn't just about dominance or sexual interest. It actually is often a sign of anxiety, overexcitement or - believe it or not - bonding between the dogs! Just because one of them or both of them have been fixed, are males, etc, it doesn't matter.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your input and I totally agree with you! Our trainer was standing there when it happened and she said it was misplaced excitement because Champ wasn't done playing and the other dog was and it was his way of trying to get the dog to play with him. The dog would growl, and we would try to redirect him, but Champ was really persistent. For some reason the humping really bothers me and I am not sure why...maybe because I see it as rude and that the other owner will get pissed off, but I'm probably over exaggerating it I'm sure. 



SheetsSM said:


> I wouldn't cancel the playdates, though take a cue from the older dog, that when they're done playing, redirect your boy--may be a good opportunity for him to practice settle or go to his mat and learn to be around other dogs calmly. From what you describe I don't see any of the behaviors attributed to him being unaltered. Perhaps if you join a GR club or training club you could surround yourself around others with the like minded where it's perfectly ok to wait on neutering.


That is a really good idea. We tried to redirect him when it was happening but he was persistent and kept at it, even with the other dog growling at him. Last time we had a play date we went for a walk with a neighbor who has a golden and my arm was so sore the next day! Champ was so overly excited and wouldn't walk nicely...he kept trying to pull to get to the other golden to wrestle with him (not hump, just play). It was such an ordeal to try to make him behave and walk. It's such a vicious cycle because since he isn't getting socialized as much as he should due to other dogs being aggressive, he gets overly excited when around other dogs and doesn't listen or start to hump because of misplaced energy. Ugh..



Bosn'sMom said:


> I think when to neuter is a choice you have to make when it's right for you/ your lifestyle/ and your goldens life style. We wanted to wait until one year and we did it at 10 months. The reason was because he LOVES doggy daycare and when other started to become aggressive and impact that we knew it was time. No regrets here.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Thanks for saying that and I can totally understand why you did it. I wish Champ could go to doggy daycare and on walks with other dogs but unfortunately he can't because other dogs are aggressive toward him. When you neutered did it stop the other dogs aggression toward him?



Mayve said:


> Just wanted to say...our foster boy Hawk...is 10 and neutered and he tries to hump Sage..but its not a dominance or sexual thing...its done in excitement from playing. I had two females who humped each other when they were playing...never aggressive etc...I think they get over excited when they play sometimes. Its actually pretty normal behavior and while I do stop it when I see it...I don't worry about it or let it embarrass me....
> 
> Neutering is a personal choice...you take all the info and decide what is best for you, your dog and your situation.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Thanks for saying all that. I'm not sure why I get so embarrassed about it and we do stop it right away, although Champ is sometimes persistent and will continue to go back to them, and thats when we have to stop the play all together. 



tippykayak said:


> It's perfectly reasonable to neuter him now. I don't think the health benefits are all that clear cut.
> 
> That said, I don't think it'll help all that much with the behaviors you describe. It _may_, but what you're describing is an adolescent dog, not one that necessarily has too much testosterone. I'd go for more exercise, more opportunities to be around other dogs, and group classes, like a CGC class, to get him around more unfamiliar sights, people, and dogs so he can learn to be OK by himself with all of that going on around him.
> 
> As far as humping, it's one of the only things that'll draw an angry voice from me with my dogs. I know it's not all that rude in dog world, but it's on a very short list of things I just won't tolerate in my dogs. If my dog starts to hump another dog, I'll walk right over there, tell him "no" pretty sternly, and push him off the other dog. Zero tolerance for humping around here.


Thanks for the advice and I think you're right that it is normal adolescent behavior, and our trainer said that as well! Unfortunately we cant take him to a class because the local humane society requires them to be neutered to be in a class....it's really ridiculous. When I called to ask about it they told me he couldn't come and then gave me a lecture about neutering. When he did the humping behavior, we were very stern with him and the other dog even growled but Champ was persistent so we had to separate them so the aggression didn't escalate. I really have zero tolerance for it either and it's so embarrassing but I wish Champ would just understand it's not acceptable!



gold4me said:


> We didn't neuter Gambler until he was 4 years old. He has never humped anything, never marked in the house and he was never aggressive. About the only difference I see is on our walks he now does not pee on every tree. Our other males were neutered even older and we never had any problems. The one golden we neutered at 11 months was our most dominate male before and after being neutered. As far as socialization we always had 2 or 3 goldens and we never go to the dog park. We have dog play dates and friends that we meet for walking. I think you will just have to do what you feel is best.


Thanks!



Willow52 said:


> I know how you're feeling, we had planned to hold off neutering Hank until 18 mos. As his first birthday approached it became apparent that the next 6 mos. would be long ones. Our daughter & son-in-law have his brother, playdates suddenly turned ugly, Hank marked in the house (only once) and since we have an invisible fence I was concerned he may bolt if there was a female in heat nearby. So we made the decision to neuter at 1 year. He was physically mature and feel it was the right decison for us.
> 
> As mentioned above, this comes down to your lifestyle and your dog's lifestyle. Try not to over think it, whatever you decide your boy will be fine.


Thanks for sharing your story. It really is so hard and I want to do what's best for Champ, but it's so hard to know what the right choice is!



Lilliam said:


> What does your contract say? That is the first consideration, in my opinion.
> 
> Personally I never neutered my border collies. I had two males in the same house with a spayed female and I never had any problems. I then brought in Max and he lived with two intact males until a year later, when one of my males died and he was left with Billy, also intact. Which means that for one year, before Dru died, I had three intact males in the house, all three mature, because Max was then eleven months.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your reply. So we don't have a contract that states when he needs to be neutered. Our breeder has left the decision up to us but has well informed us about the studies and her opinion, so we are free to make the decision as we please. I have zero tolerance for humping and when it happened, I was stern and got him off of the other dogs right away. However, Champ was very persistent, even with the other dog growling at him, and he would go back and mount him again and again we said no, took him off the other dog even as the other dog growled, and Champ would get it for a second, then go right back to doing it again. There are times when it looks like Champ is about to hump a blanket and I never allow that either, but the blanket is easier to take away, and less exciting, than another dog. Champ is a very boisterous boy, and has a ton of energy, and we try and try and try to get him tired, and I swear to you I don't think anything works. We don't run him for obvious reasons, but we have taken him swimming, and on very long walks, and to a field to run around as much as he pleases, and nothing, I mean nothing, gets this dog tired. The woman who owns the pool where you can take your dogs swimming was shocked at the amount of energy Champ had after swimming for an hour.


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## SMBC (Jul 31, 2012)

I also asked our trainer how to keep him calm and relaxed when on a walk with other dogs since he was insane and my shoulder was aching for days after we took a walk with my neighbor and her golden. She didn't really give me a good answer and said to use treats, but I don't like using treats with other dogs as I am always worried it can start a fight. I would be open to any suggestions people have about that as well.

Thanks guys for all your opinions and advice. It sounds like training and socialization are the best, but again I feel stuck because it's hard to socialize him when other dogs are aggressive and also when Champ begins to hump and doesn't listen when we tell him to stop.


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## Bentleysmom (Aug 11, 2012)

I too, struggled with this decision. Bentley already has strikes against him (BYB) so it wasn't an easy decision for me. Our biggest problem was him trying to hump Ky 24/7. The rest I could deal with. He was perfectly fine being around other dogs so I didn't have the socialization to worry about. My fear was that with Ky being in so much pain from her back, one day she would snap and really go after him since he wasn't listening when she told him no.

We decided to have it done at one year. Truthfully I haven't seen any difference at all. Maybe the humping has slowed down a little but is that from the neuter of from the training we do everyday. Who knows.

It certainly didn't slow him down...at all. He is still the same hyper maniac he's always been.
I can't help you with your decision and I know how frustrating it is but I just wanted to add our story. Good luck.


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## SMBC (Jul 31, 2012)

Bentleysmom said:


> I too, struggled with this decision. Bentley already has strikes against him (BYB) so it wasn't an easy decision for me. Our biggest problem was him trying to hump Ky 24/7. The rest I could deal with. He was perfectly fine being around other dogs so I didn't have the socialization to worry about. My fear was that with Ky being in so much pain from her back, one day she would snap and really go after him since he wasn't listening when she told him no.
> 
> We decided to have it done at one year. Truthfully I haven't seen any difference at all. Maybe the humping has slowed down a little but is that from the neuter of from the training we do everyday. Who knows.
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing your story! It is really helpful for me to know that people were in the same predicament that I was in, and made choices to either wait or go ahead and do it, and it sounds like either way people were happy with their choice! Our vet said he's a very boisterous boy and she doubts that neutering him will help with that, but she was hopefully it would help with marking and possibly humping. He hasn't really marked, except he stops at every tree, but the other day he did pee in home depot:doh: Embarrassing!!


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## Dancer (Apr 5, 2010)

tippykayak said:


> It's perfectly reasonable to neuter him now. I don't think the health benefits are all that clear cut.
> 
> That said, I don't think it'll help all that much with the behaviors you describe. It _may_, but what you're describing is an adolescent dog, not one that necessarily has too much testosterone. I'd go for more exercise, more opportunities to be around other dogs, and group classes, like a CGC class, to get him around more unfamiliar sights, people, and dogs so he can learn to be OK by himself with all of that going on around him.
> 
> As far as humping, it's one of the only things that'll draw an angry voice from me with my dogs. I know it's not all that rude in dog world, but it's on a very short list of things I just won't tolerate in my dogs. If my dog starts to hump another dog, I'll walk right over there, tell him "no" pretty sternly, and push him off the other dog. Zero tolerance for humping around here.


I 100% agree!! My boys are both in-neutered. One is 4 yrs, the just turned 1. I do avoid dog-parks and daycares....but I would even if they were neutered. It's not for me to say what you should do or what's right for you, but I don't know how much hope I'd have that neutering would change those behaviours that are bothering you. I know of maybe 6 dogs in our immediate friend- group who display many of those behaviours to one extent or another at different times. All of those dogs are fixed, various breeds and ages, and the females are as bad for humping as the boys. I think what you are going through might be a bad 'teenager' phase? Neutering may help a bit, but I'd imagine many of those behaviours might be unchanged. My intact boys don't hump- because I'm on their case every time, and because I also don't allow other dogs to hump them. 


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## gold4me (Mar 12, 2006)

I forgot to add that we have had 2 females and they were the ones who started humping my intact males. Humping is not allowed in our house or anywhere so we no longer see that behavior.


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## SMBC (Jul 31, 2012)

Dancer said:


> I 100% agree!! My boys are both in-neutered. One is 4 yrs, the just turned 1. I do avoid dog-parks and daycares....but I would even if they were neutered. It's not for me to say what you should do or what's right for you, but I don't know how much hope I'd have that neutering would change those behaviours that are bothering you. I know of maybe 6 dogs in our immediate friend- group who display many of those behaviours to one extent or another at different times. All of those dogs are fixed, various breeds and ages, and the females are as bad for humping as the boys. I think what you are going through might be a bad 'teenager' phase? Neutering may help a bit, but I'd imagine many of those behaviours might be unchanged. My intact boys don't hump- because I'm on their case every time, and because I also don't allow other dogs to hump them.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Thanks for sharing your story and it really helps me to realize that these behaviors may not be associated with him being in tact and proper training an help as opposed to neutering. We are definitely going through a bad teenage phase...he is extremely stubborn, energetic and defiant, but such a sweetheart. His stubbornness is really getting hard to handle, but I guess it's good practice for when we have human children



gold4me said:


> I forgot to add that we have had 2 females and they were the ones who started humping my intact males. Humping is not allowed in our house or anywhere so we no longer see that behavior.


Ya good point! Humping is not allowed with me either, but as I am sure you know, even though somethings not allowed doesn't mean they won't try to do it I think I just need to be consistent with it and hope that he can release his energy at some point in other ways. The humping has only happened twice, and it's not every dog that he does it to, thank god! I will be honest and say I totally avoided our play date this morning and I think I was supposed to text my neighbor, and I didn't. It's really my fault for avoiding these situations, and I know that, but it's also sometimes easier to just avoid. I think I am going to email my friend who has a very well behaved dog that does well with other dogs and see if they can have a play date. I feel most comfortable with her and her dog.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Sexually mature - physically mature - long bone growth plates closed - are three very different things. 
Keep in mind that the beginning of puberty in US human boys is averaging around 10 years old. There is a big physical difference between a 10 year old boy and a 20 year old man.
So, your boy though sexually mature is not physically mature. His skeletal structure is also not mature, but his long bones which are the most concerning for Goldens because of the breeds osteo issues and ACL tears might be. 
If you are concerned about his bone growth, you could take him in to have x-rays of his growth plates. If they are closed, neutering will not delay the closing of these plates and cause the dog to grow taller than he should by his genetic blue print. 
He will not however, have the hormones to carry him through to the full potential of his masculine features. If you like the way he looks now, no worries. If you are hoping for more substance and masculinity, those hormones make a difference.
In the end, you have to make the best decision for you, your family and your dog. Just wanted to put a different view and perhaps a tool to make your decision. Good luck! Either way, I hope you find an end to the humping


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## Ksdenton (Mar 17, 2013)

I wouldn't count on the humping or marking to not happen after neuter. My male Min Pin was neutered very early on (by 6 mos) and he started the marking and humping much later on. He didn't do either behavior before he was neutered. 
I too am waiting on Bentley and he's the same age as Champ. I'm taking it week by week. I too have been worried about taking him to dog parks or around other dogs for fear of being attacked. Bentley too has been showing signs of fear in things he never did before. It's a trying time. That's for sure. 


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## Dancer (Apr 5, 2010)

Lol- we think if ours as our 'practise kids' as well! I figure if we can't raise a good dog .....well I hear kids are a bit harder!


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## Dancer (Apr 5, 2010)

SMBC said:


> I will be honest and say I totally avoided our play date this morning and I think I was supposed to text my neighbor, and I didn't. It's really my fault for avoiding these situations, and I know that, but it's also sometimes easier to just avoid. I think I am going to email my friend who has a very well behaved dog that does well with other dogs and see if they can have a play date. I feel most comfortable with her and her dog.


I know it's tough to socialize them sometimes, especially when you're expecting things won't go well . But honestly, two of the most difficult dogs that I know don't get out if their home very much. The female is emotionally scarred, nervous, aggressive (deadly) towards small dogs and many large ones. The other dog is a male who barks incessantly, picks fights with other dogs, can't be around cats. .. Neither dog can be around children, or trusted in someone else's home(marking), both are extremely stressed out and not fun to have around. Their owners are virtually prisoners to their dogs- basically waiting for them to pass away so they can be free to live their lives. Both of these dogs are spayed/ neutered, and neither has EVER been abused. Ever. They're some of the most messed up dogs I know because they were never disciplined and completely unsocialized.

I bring up this example to highlight the fact that 'fixing' these dogs didn't fix them at all. You can go either way with neutering, but holding back on discipline (I'm not accusing you of that, I obviously don't know if that's the case) and holding back on socialization will almost certainly ruin your dog, from what I've seen myself. Please just keep that in mind- I don't want to scare you or come off mean, but I'd hate for our friends situation to become yours. 
The best way to socialize is to integrate your dog into your life in every possible way. Ours come to friends houses, go on overnight trips, have dog friends for sleepovers, go camping...everywhere they can go, we bring them. Take opportunities as they arise daily- for example we had to take a ferry a while back so I took each dog in turn for a stroll on the deck. Never miss an opportunity to expand their horizons, and you'll find his trust in you grows along with his social skills. 


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## canajo (Nov 25, 2012)

I was trying to wait to 18 months also buy starting at 9 months or so Toby's marking became out of hand. He marked every few feet on a walk and started to mark inside the day care buildings (where there are a lot of dog smells). He never marked inside the house though. And, even though I know it is normal for a dog, his red rocket was out ALL the time and it caused some embarrassing moments at times. I finally caved and neutered him at 11 months. Since then the marking has decreased tremendously and the red rocket is not out much at all. The humping has decreased a lot also and he has been neutered now for 2 months.


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## Colie CVT (Sep 15, 2013)

Guess I am one of the few who isn't very bothered at all by humping lol. I can get Myles redirected if he is doing it because of excitement. He wasn't around females in heat before he was neutered, but I can't have him near my roommate's female GSD when she's in heat. He's as bad as the intact male around her. Doesn't help that she's kind of a ****, but we can even keep them away from that kind of temptation. It just doesn't bother me when it comes down to it getting intermixed into play. Bruce really (and I mean REALLY) gets into humping Myles. He was neutered at 6 months. Myles never really was a marker either. I actually photographed the first time he lifted his leg. 

It is all up to you in the end when you want to do it. Though testosterone doesn't always drive these things.  Just something to keep in mind lol.


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## DJdogman (Apr 23, 2013)

I was the very same with Derek who is also 10 1/2 months, and as a matter of fact I dropped him off at the vets this morning to be neutered and they just phoned to say he's waking up. He marked last week on a carpet in the house which he has never done before, and recently other male dogs in our dog park have started to snap at him even though he's very placid, and I think its because he's intact. But the main reason is that I want him to go to doggie daycare and they have to be neutered for that.
I'll let you know if he changes in any way after these few recovery weeks, if you can hold out that long!


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## CharlieBear80 (Oct 13, 2013)

I'll be watching this thread as I am supposed to be bringing our pup home in January and it'll be the first dog I'll have waited to neuter. Both males I've had so far have been done by 6 months, but with this one I hope to hold off until at least 18 months. 

I'm not bothered by humping either but I think that's because I consider it to be part of normal doggy behavior. Humans get embarrassed by it because it means something different to us. As long as it's not an aggression issue with a dog, I say just figure out why your dog is doing it (as has been mentioned, usually over-excitement or anxiety, but sometimes just playing) and try to remedy it.


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## Dancer (Apr 5, 2010)

It's not the actual act of them humping that upsets me- although any behaviour that I don't want is something my boys are going to need to stop. The problem with humping is that it's typically an antisocial behaviour; if it's done from over excitement, anxiety, dominance, etc. Any of those causes of humping mean that at that moment the behaviour is coming for a place of emotional instability. If a dog can act that instability out in a physical way, the mindset that goes along with the action gains power- these are mind sets that can cause problems in other areas of life as well. Additionally you're dog absolutely will be the cause of a dog fight if he chooses the wrong dog to hump. Since my guys are already branded as 'scary' by some folks because they're intact, it's even more important that we ensure their behaviour is exemplary. So that's why there's absolutely no humping allowed, and I'll step in and stop things if another dog is humping them. That's just my take in it though, but it's worked very well for my boys


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## olliversmom (Mar 13, 2013)

Olliver will be 8 months old on Wed.
My breeder contract asked I wait at least 12 months.
So, we're planning on that..for now.
Ollie has been a humper from infancy.
I don't think it has as much to do with his sexuality and intact status as it does from his boisterous personality.
His predecessor Homer was neutered at 6 months and did hump on occasion after that, but few and far between. Homer was a much more laid back personality tho.
I do think Ollie will hump forever, even after neutering, just his personality. When I see him do it, I yank him off. I don't like it myself, but not because of any sexual connotations, just the bully thing bothers me.

So far, he is still listening really well to me, but we consistently train a lot and I always have something in my pocket for him. He is very obedient so far.
Last week we met 3 random females. Two Goldens and one lab. Altho Ollie did not manage to get on top of them, he was pushing at them with intent. All three went right after him, no teeth, but definite growl warnings.
I did not interfere. I look at it as he is still learning his manners as a puppy. And he did get the message. After the warnings, he backed right off and came to play ball with me.
Later one day, he ran in to his new good buddy, Charlie, a 4 year old Golden.
He and Charlie did what they do, wrestle, bitey face and run run run. For an hour. Ollie tries to get on Charlie too, but now Charlie is warning him as well, and between me and Charlie, Ollie is doing it less.

The outside marking does not bother me in the least. I actually get a kick out of how much urine he actually can stockpile in there to spray a 3 mile loop!
But I was caught up short when he almost lifted his leg in the training center, on a gate. I stopped him in mid lift and hustled him away. That will definitely be my line in the sand if he starts marking indoors, anywhere.

As for the dog parks, we do not frequent them as often as Ollie would like, I do it out of social necessity and the one we go to is pretty good. But he is humping more when we are there lately, and as it really annoys some of the doggie parents, I am feeling hesitant about visiting lately. The dogs are not really going after him yet, it is me and the parents that are bothered by it.

Sigh. Boys.


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## Dancer (Apr 5, 2010)

My bridge- boy Sonny never bumped anyone ever- but he was what I called the 'universal victim'. The most laid back, non confrontational dig in the world. Not overly submissive or anything, but just...different. He related to humans so well, but was confused by dogs a lot so wasn't really interested in them. But boy were they interested in him! Literally every dog we met had to hump him. Dogs who'd never humped before had to try him out! It was nuts. Maybe he had a hormonal imbalance? 


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## SMBC (Jul 31, 2012)

So to those who noticed that their dog was a victim of bullying from other dogs prior to neutering and then neutered...did still go after them after the neutering?

Champs testicles are such a hot topic right now! Not only are we trying to figure out this neutering thing but he has this rash on them that will not go away!! We have been spraying antibacterial stuff the vet gave us on them for over a week, and he's been wearing a cone, and it's not working! I'm going to call the vet again tomorrow! At this point I want to cut them off so we don't have to worry about the rash anymore

Anyways though, I'm really appreciating hearing people's stories and advice. Champ is a really good dog and we are diligent about training, but he is a very boisterous boy and very stubborn. We are definitely going through a teenage phase right now which makes things that much more difficult. He is very masculine looking now and I don't want him to lose that if we neuter him, and I have heard it can change their appearance. 

As far as the humping goes I agree with our trainer that it is in response to overexcitement. When he first plays with dogs it doesn't happen but once they stop playing and Champ wants to continue playing, that's when he humps. The trainer was right there when it happened and she said she observed it to be a behavior that he was trying to utilize to get the dog to play with him and engage with him...just like a child that's poking you to play with him/her. And he has actually only done it to 2 dogs so maybe I am over exaggerating.


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## DJdogman (Apr 23, 2013)

Well I know its very early days as Derek was only neutered yesterday, but he got home last night and was just as excited as he always is, jumping on the couch and counter-surfing trying to rob food, he humped his bed like he always does, and he's just as boisterous and stubborn as he always was. 

He literally has not changed one bit, he's not even sleepy and sore like I expected. Its not that I wanted him to be sore and miserable, but I was kind of looking forward to a few days peace while he was recovering!! Perhaps its because there are still those hormones flowing through him and they'll disappear soon, who knows? Obviously I won't be bringing him to the dog park for another 10-14 days, so won't know whether the other dogs will still bully him until then, but I'll keep you updated if I noticed any changes in him.


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## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

If Champ is masculine looking now, he will not lose that after he is neutered. See LJack's comments earlier in the thread. In Max's case, he still had a bit of a puppy look when he was neutered, even though he was quite big. He became more mature, masculine looking and handsome as he got older. He continued to fill-out until at least the age of two years.

I do think it takes a little while for the hormones to wear off after the surgery. As far as bullying is concerned, Max is never bullied at dog park. Some dogs have tried, but Max always stands up for himself. Much different than when he was a puppy and before he was neutered.

By the way, how about some up-to-date photos of your boy?


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

SMBC -- I have extremely limited experience with this because Bear was neutered by his rescue before I even got him (at 8 weeks). With that being said, Bear *used* to hump toys and mount other dogs when he got overexcited. I'd put him in a time out for a bit, and he'd be good to go. Bear has never marked (he still squats like a girl too!). Bear does "straddle" your arm or leg when you're petting him, but i don't really see it as a dominance thing, I think he's trying to get an upside-down belly rub. Before his vacation from dog groups, Bear was picked on by MOST of the dogs we came in contact with. 

We've had comments from professionals about Bear's LONG LONG legs, but I cannot say if that's is BECAUSE he was neutered so young or if it's a trait of some breed in his DNA. His front legs look like poodle legs. (teehee). As of now, at 14 months, his growth plates have not yet closed (as per x-rays and confirmed w/ our orthopedic surgeon). 

In other thoughts.... you said a reason TO neuter would be the rash on his testicles... but once he's neutered, you're still going to have that rash. They don't remove the testicle sack (Bear still have this little pouch from his baby balls). 

Best of luck in your decision!


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## SMBC (Jul 31, 2012)

DJdogman said:


> Well I know its very early days as Derek was only neutered yesterday, but he got home last night and was just as excited as he always is, jumping on the couch and counter-surfing trying to rob food, he humped his bed like he always does, and he's just as boisterous and stubborn as he always was.
> 
> He literally has not changed one bit, he's not even sleepy and sore like I expected. Its not that I wanted him to be sore and miserable, but I was kind of looking forward to a few days peace while he was recovering!! Perhaps its because there are still those hormones flowing through him and they'll disappear soon, who knows? Obviously I won't be bringing him to the dog park for another 10-14 days, so won't know whether the other dogs will still bully him until then, but I'll keep you updated if I noticed any changes in him.


Thanks for the update and I look forward to hearing how things go from here on out. It will be interesting to see if he is still getting bullied by other dogs! I really appreciate your updates and will be really curious! I hope he is recovering well from his surgery!



Max's Dad said:


> If Champ is masculine looking now, he will not lose that after he is neutered. See LJack's comments earlier in the thread. In Max's case, he still had a bit of a puppy look when he was neutered, even though he was quite big. He became more mature, masculine looking and handsome as he got older. He continued to fill-out until at least the age of two years.
> 
> I do think it takes a little while for the hormones to wear off after the surgery. As far as bullying is concerned, Max is never bullied at dog park. Some dogs have tried, but Max always stands up for himself. Much different than when he was a puppy and before he was neutered.
> 
> By the way, how about some up-to-date photos of your boy?


Hi! Thanks for your thoughts! I've heard that dogs that get neutered early get taller, and have longer legs, and right now Champ's legs are short and he is very stocky, so I would hate to change his body structure (although I'm not sure if what I have heard is actually true). Max is super handsome and a huge boy!

I'll post a couple pictures in a new post!



Brave said:


> SMBC -- I have extremely limited experience with this because Bear was neutered by his rescue before I even got him (at 8 weeks). With that being said, Bear *used* to hump toys and mount other dogs when he got overexcited. I'd put him in a time out for a bit, and he'd be good to go. Bear has never marked (he still squats like a girl too!). Bear does "straddle" your arm or leg when you're petting him, but i don't really see it as a dominance thing, I think he's trying to get an upside-down belly rub. Before his vacation from dog groups, Bear was picked on by MOST of the dogs we came in contact with.
> 
> We've had comments from professionals about Bear's LONG LONG legs, but I cannot say if that's is BECAUSE he was neutered so young or if it's a trait of some breed in his DNA. His front legs look like poodle legs. (teehee). As of now, at 14 months, his growth plates have not yet closed (as per x-rays and confirmed w/ our orthopedic surgeon).
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing! Actually, I was totally kidding about the rash...I know it's not a good reason to neuter, but I guess it I was hoping it would solve the problem quickly but you are right, it would still be there (wishful thinking I have heard that dogs legs can grow longer with early neutering and something the breeder had mentioned to us. I appreciate you sharing aspects of Bear's behavior. On Champ's walk tonight by husband and I were talking about how likely Champ's crazy behavior is related more to him being a bratty teenager than his testicles I will say that this forum is super helpful! Champ had one of his bratty moments and laid down in the middle of our walk and wouldn't budge, and yesterday I happened to come across a thread that talked about ways to deal with it and it totally worked! I am honestly considering getting a different trainer too. Although I really like our trainer, she is just sort of flippant and nonchalant about things and I want more support and direction and definitiveness. Thanks again for your advice!


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## SMBC (Jul 31, 2012)

Here are some pictures of Champ aka "the trouble maker":doh:


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## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

Adorable Champ has turned into handsome Champ. Thanks for sharing.


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## SMBC (Jul 31, 2012)

Champ went to get his rash checked out at the dermatologist. It's nothing too interesting and we just have to put ointment on it for the next month and hope that it goes away this time. 

When we were at the specialty clinic, we got a lot of flack for keeping him in tact. Everyone that said something I responded with citing the research and talking about how other people have recommended keeping him in tact for various reasons. They did not seem to care and suggested that I speak with our last dog's orthopedic surgeon, who also works at the clinic. They said if anyone could give us a good answer, it would be her since she's an orthopedist and in my mind, is the greatest vet of all times. If I needed surgery, I would have her do it!

Anyways, I left her a message and will expect to hear from her sometime this week. I am curious to know what she says about it and hope to gain some clarity. Thanks all for your help!


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## Dancer (Apr 5, 2010)

SMBC said:


> When we were at the specialty clinic, we got a lot of flack for keeping him in tact. Everyone that said something I responded with citing the research and talking about how other people have recommended keeping him in tact for various reasons. They did not seem to care and suggested that I speak with our last dog's orthopedic surgeon, who also works at the clinic. They said if anyone could give us a good answer, it would be her since she's an orthopedist and in my mind, is the greatest vet of all times. If I needed surgery, I would have her do it!


If you talk to anyone who has kept their male intact, I'd bet you dollars to donuts that they will all tell you the only really bad thing about it is peoples reactions,as you've just experienced. I used to constantly be in the position of having to defend that choice, but it seems to have calmed down a bit lately. My husband really was feeling the pressure, and actually made an appointment to have Steven "fixed" (I hate that, btw. "Fixing " him would imply something was wrong with him). We discussed it, and the only real reason he had behind his viewpoint was pressure from friends. I have him some reading material, and told him that if he read it and was still into neutering Steve, we would discuss it seriously. The last thing I'm going to do is make a decision that affects Steve's health based solely on pressure from someone else. Steve is still intact, and there's been no talk of neutering Fuzzy. 



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## SMBC (Jul 31, 2012)

Dancer said:


> If you talk to anyone who has kept their male intact, I'd bet you dollars to donuts that they will all tell you the only really bad thing about it is peoples reactions,as you've just experienced. I used to constantly be in the position of having to defend that choice, but it seems to have calmed down a bit lately. My husband really was feeling the pressure, and actually made an appointment to have Steven "fixed" (I hate that, btw. "Fixing " him would imply something was wrong with him). We discussed it, and the only real reason he had behind his viewpoint was pressure from friends. I have him some reading material, and told him that if he read it and was still into neutering Steve, we would discuss it seriously. The last thing I'm going to do is make a decision that affects Steve's health based solely on pressure from someone else. Steve is still intact, and there's been no talk of neutering Fuzzy.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Thanks for your reply. The criticism can definitely be harsh and it is hard to take! However, I would say that it's not the only bad thing about keeping him in tact. Sure, it's really annoying to hear other people's opinions, but actually, we have to deal with dogs being aggressive toward him more than we have to deal with unsolicited advice. If that were the only downside to keeping him intact, I don't think I would see it as a reason to go ahead and neuter. I'm fairly good at nodding my head and thanking them for the advice and just doing what I want to do instead But, it has become increasingly more difficult with other dogs and I would say the hardest thing about keeping him in tact is the lack of socialization, and how other dogs are aggressive toward him and I worry how this will effect him as I do not want him to become scared of other dogs, or aggressive in response. I spoke with the owners of one of Champ's brothers and he said they are planning to neuter next month, after the litter turns a year old. He said he just cannot take it anymore either and felt that a year was a good compromise. I keep hearing debates for and against it, and both are very strong arguments, and I can see both sides of the argument, and I am really interested to hear what the orthopedic surgeon has to say. It's a tough decision either way...that's for sure!


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## SMBC (Jul 31, 2012)

So I finally spoke with with the orthopedic specialist and then our regular vet about neutering. We talked about the research out there and the benefits and drawbacks of keeping him in tact vs neutering. After speaking with them, and talking it over with my husband, as well as talking it over with Champ's moms owner, we have decided to go ahead and neuter.

I know it's a controversial topic, and one that people have strong feelings about, but we feel that Champ's time has come and this is what is best for him and for us. We scheduled his neutering for the day after his first birthday, which is about a little more than a month away. This gives his rash time to heal, and also some more time to think about it, but I doubt at this point we are going to change our minds.

It is such a difficult decision and one I don't take lightly, and I think either way I would be questioning whether my decision was the right one, but I'm glad we were able to talk to the people we trust the most in the veterinary profession and get their professional opinion about it.


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## Dancer (Apr 5, 2010)

Lol well you never know what will happen! My husband made an appointment once to have Steve neutered. I was unsure about it at that time, but started doing research and burying him in literature as well. He was already wavering when the vet clinic called us because they had to cancel! That appointment never got rebooked, lol, and we chalked it up to fate. Imagine if Steve knew how close he'd gotten, haha. 

But anyways, good on you for looking into it first before deciding anything. Although I obviously chose a different route with my boys, I only ask that people make an informed choice based on research. I think it's great that you were able to talk to the orthopaedic surgeon, and if you decide to go forward with neutering him it's great that you were able to wait until he's a year old! Good luck and keep us posted! 


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## SMBC (Jul 31, 2012)

Willow52 said:


> I know how you're feeling, we had planned to hold off neutering Hank until 18 mos. As his first birthday approached it became apparent that the next 6 mos. would be long ones. Our daughter & son-in-law have his brother, playdates suddenly turned ugly, Hank marked in the house (only once) and since we have an invisible fence I was concerned he may bolt if there was a female in heat nearby. So we made the decision to neuter at 1 year. He was physically mature and feel it was the right decison for us.
> 
> As mentioned above, this comes down to your lifestyle and your dog's lifestyle. Try not to over think it, whatever you decide your boy will be fine.


Did you notice any difference in him after you neutered at a year old?


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## LDBgolden (Jan 1, 2015)

SMBC said:


> Thanks for your reply! So we had a doggy play date with a 3 year old male, and things went well, until the dog no longer wanted to play and then Champ mounted him. The owner actually wants to have another play date tomorrow but I'm going to cancel...I don't want to deal with it and with Champ's rash I think it's best to hold off another week. Then, we had another play date and this woman has 3 dogs, 2 goldens and one golden doodle. Champ did really well with the young female doodle, and then played with the older golden male for awhile and then again, when that dog was done playing, Champ mounted him! So weird! We separated them because clearly Champ was annoying him. We didn't have him play with the oldest female because he was a bit too crazy and she wouldn't have stood for it...understandably so. So we have had play dates but the mounting got in the way, and it's not every time and like I said our trainer didn't think it was a big deal but now I feel like I want to avoid play dates to avoid the embarrassment if Champ decides to mount another dog! I just feel like life would be so much easier if we could neuter him then the mounting behavior went away and we could socialize him way more than we are now. What is hard is that if we are at a park with him and another dog shows up, we have to leave for fear that the other dog will turn on him. When we pass dogs on a walk, a lot of times owners will want their dog to meet Champ, but we avoid other owners because now Champ has been attacked unprovoked one too many times. As far as the barking and growling goes, it could definitely be a fear period. He has never once been aggressive toward anything or anyone but he will bark and growl. For instance we took him to our friends gym the other day and he wouldn't stop barking at the rowing machine. I took him over there to smell it, he smelled it and seemed to calm down, then we walked away and he turned around and barked at it again. With people, usually it's if they are passing by and staring at him and it's only happened a handful of times so I'm not too worried about it, but just wanted to mention that it is happening. Champ is also definitely going through a defiant period too Adolescence is so fun!
> 
> Where in the Bay Area are you? We are here too!
> 
> ...


Humping is not always a concerning behavior. The intention behind the humping is what matters and how that impacts the play dynamic. My neutered male humps his best friend when he arrives for a play date because he knew she was coming and the excitement built up. He humps her once to say “omg! You’re here!!!! I’m so happy!”. She doesn’t mind at all. And then they have the best play date. 

Meanwhile, he never humps dogs that get upset by a hump. It’s only dogs he’s comfortable with and their friendship is at that level.
So the why matters, how the dog reacts, and how well your dog listens.

Waiting until the growth plates close supposedly help to decrease risks and severity of hip and elbow dysplasia. Additionally having those hormones during development are being acknowledged for impacting lower risks in certain cancers.


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## Smitty1 (Mar 24, 2021)

Max's Dad said:


> We had Max neutered at 8 months of age. He was sexually mature and already weighed 99 pounds. We also had thought of waiting, or never having him neutered, but he had begun humping often and was having trouble at dog park. He was a lot to handle. He is now over 3 years old and doing very well. He is definitely calmer, he does mark sometimes and will occasionally hump my leg, but not with the enthusiasm he did when he was intact.
> 
> I have done a lot of research on the subject of when to neuter. The only thing I have got out of it is it may be a good idea to wait until the dog has reached sexual maturity. I am very skeptical of the UC Davis study. My questions involves the fact that the study was done retrospectively, and only involved dogs that had been brought to the UC Davis hospital.
> 
> ...


I had a Golden who wasn’t neutered who ran 10 k with me never had any issues died at 14.5.I got two Goldens from the same breeder.Neutered at 5 mo.Both had blown ACL on both legs.One had another tear after rehab.My one guy died in one day after his spleen hemorrhaged at 8 yrs of age.His brother is still doing ok.I also have two boys that are 1.9 yrs.I just spoke to my vet.She is old school.She said why would you neuter them unless there was a medical issue.They are very well behaved.Going to be service dogs.They are being trained at my home.We live in the country with 5 acres so they have room to run but they come to us on command.Good luck to everyone with this decision.


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