# Jack's aggression is getting worse



## jealous1 (Dec 7, 2007)

I'm no expert but you might also check for other reasons. I understand that thyroid issues (which is getting more common in goldens) affects personality. Might want to check with your vet as well.


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

1) Definitely get a vet exam...always a good starting place.
2) While training can definitely help, due to the number of issues (separation distress, reactivity ot people, reactivity to dogs) and the issues increasing in intensity....you should consult with a veterinary behaviorist. If your vet cannot refer you to a board certified veterinary behaviorist within a reasonable distance, consider a phone consult: Texas Veterinary Behavior Services
3) In the meantime, avoid having him off leash in areas where someone could get hurt. DO NOT have him around any kids, be cautious around strangers. Try to avoid other dogs on walks.

I would consult a board certified veterinary behaviorist ASAP for the best and most complete help possible.

These types of issues are typically not well addressed in a board-and-train setting. And while a group class can improve basic manners and response to cues, it is NOT the place to address these issues either.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Take RedDogs advice to heart. This doesn't sound like an uppity dog who needs stricter rules. It sounds like a fearful, anxious dog who may be responding to a health problem. Training is always a great idea, but there may be something more serious going on here.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

I agree with Tippy and RedDogs. Poor boy, he may need medical intervention.


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## Sheila (Apr 9, 2008)

Thank you all so much. I called my vet and he agrees that we should check Jack's thyroid since we also have weight problem. I'll let you guys know how it turns out.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Sheila said:


> Thank you all so much. I called my vet and he agrees that we should check Jack's thyroid since we also have weight problem. I'll let you guys know how it turns out.


Hmmm...how's his coat?


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## Sheila (Apr 9, 2008)

His coat is fine and the vet said that his coat showed no signs of a thyroid issue but that he could be borderline and it's not showing up in his coat yet. I have another question. We have always just left his food out and let him eat when he's hungry. If he eats it all at once then he doesn't get any more that day. The trainer I'm working with says that we need to stop doing that and feed him on a twice a day schedule. Do you guys agree with that?


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## GinnyinPA (Oct 31, 2010)

How much exercise is he getting? My understanding is that some anxious behaviors are made worse if the dog isn't getting enough exercise.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Sheila said:


> His coat is fine and the vet said that his coat showed no signs of a thyroid issue but that he could be borderline and it's not showing up in his coat yet. I have another question. We have always just left his food out and let him eat when he's hungry. If he eats it all at once then he doesn't get any more that day. The trainer I'm working with says that we need to stop doing that and feed him on a twice a day schedule. Do you guys agree with that?


We feed the dogs twice a day. I don't think it has any relation to aggression, nor would it cause a thyroid issue, to my knowledge. Maybe somebody who knows more about thyroid problems could comment as to whether it would help to space out a dog's meals.

I was just curious about the coat. A dog can have a significant problem and yet not show it in some of the classic ways. Hypothyroid issues are weird like that.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I was waffling about responding to this one as I'm halfway agreeing with Red Dogs that group classes might not be a good idea just yet. 

My old instructor would do private lessons with people with "problem" dogs. During which time she would use her own dogs to set up the dog so the owner could learn how to correct and handle the dog around other dogs.

As the owner and dog became more successful, they then were bumped up to the group classes where they were given a private corner of the room and all of the other owners were warned to give the dog space. 

The dog usually acclimated and learned how to be calm around a lot of other dogs, but the owner had to be on the ball to prevent her dog from causing any confrontations. That's the main thing these owners learned in the private lessons. 

Where I train now, there is a screening process and up to the instructors whether they will allow a possibly aggressive dog in the class. *If the training facility is small and you'd be sitting close to other dogs, I wouldn't risk it if I were you. Mainly because with every confrontation, your dog's bad behavior will get reinforced. *

I would definitely get your dog into dog classes, especially if there is a large training club in your area. And keep him in classes - any random classes that gives him a job in life and provides controlled socialization for him. 

@thyroid - definitely have it done. My guy's behavior changed right around the same age. In his case he suddenly developed noise phobias. I suspect it's more due to genetics and him being very sensitive, but who knows whether or not low thyroid is exasperating the situation?


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## Sheila (Apr 9, 2008)

I don't think the feeding schedule has anything to do with a problem with his thyroid. The trainer said that is one more way to make him know that he is not the alpha, we are. I'm not sure I agree with her. I think it is more fear aggression than anything else. He doesn't like another large male dog in his space and he doesn't like all of the activity that children create. That is just my opinion. He is very headstrong and there is no doubt that I probably need more training than the dog does. I'll give you an example. He wanted to play ball Saturday so I wouldn't throw the ball until he obeyed my command to sit or down. After a few times at this he just took the ball and went in the house. It was definitely a, "if you won't play my way then I just won't play with you" attitude. Yesterday was better but he still didn't like it that I made him obey me before I would throw the ball. Stubborn as a jackass is what he is.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Sheila said:


> I don't think the feeding schedule has anything to do with a problem with his thyroid. The trainer said that is one more way to make him know that he is not the alpha, we are.


Time for a new trainer. Based on what you've said in this thread, trying to teach this dog that you're the "alpha" could just result in more anxiety and more aggression, depending on what techniques you use. Plus, the whole "alpha" mentality has pretty much been debunked in more recent research on dog behavior.


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

You're in luck, you don't have to worrry about alphaness in regards to food: http://www.avsabonline.org/avsabonline/images/stories/Position_Statements/dominance statement.pdf

If your dog is diagnosed with a thyroid problem by your vet (...note there are two tests, t4 and "free t4"...which is not free but typically about $100 and shipped elsewhere and much more detailed), feeding schedule and medication schedule CAN Impact the effectiveness of the meds, or so I've been told. This resource may help you: Welcome to Dogwise.com

Ball throwing and lack of response....if your dog truely loves playing fetch, I woudl NOT call his lack of playing stubornness.... I would suspect you made things too hard. Maybe he does know to Sit well, and maybe it SHOULD be easy. But for some dogs, when they're excited about play, Sitting can be VERY difficult. To get success wtih these dogs, we very very very gradually build the excitement level of a game...at any level the dog should be successful or we need to adjust our plan.


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## Hali's Mom (Oct 5, 2006)

Thyroid problems can definitely trigger unsatisfactory behavior in an otherwise well behaved dog. Please make sure that the vet does both T3 and T4, plus the T4 free tests (3 in all). Results of "low normal" in a Golden Retriever requires medication even though it may not in other breeds. So if you get low normal results please talk your vet into trying medication even if they say it isn't warranted. I had this result when Hali was first tested and my vet said no treatment was necessary. I consulted with Dr. Jean Dodd of Hemopet, she is the top expert in the country, and she recommended a dosage for Hali based on the test results I received. Please email Dr. Dodd if you have the slightest concern after your vet has advised you. Her advice is free for the taking and she emails right back.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

Yes, get a full thyroid panel done to see if he is low, but also see a behaviorist, either a veterinary behaviorist or a Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist for a consult. Regardless of what his problem is, training is always a great thing....if he is being too big for his britches, training will help readjust your relationship and if he is fearful, training will help build his confidence. However, I would wait for a recommendation from the behaviorist to sign up. A bad class experience would be worse than nothing and may be dangerous for you dog and the other dogs in the class.


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## Sheila (Apr 9, 2008)

Got Jack's thyroid test today. Will get results Thurs. He has a broken tooth that we have to have extracted. I spend more on my furry child than I did on my two-legged ones. Oh well. Gotta do what you gotta do.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Sheila said:


> He has a broken tooth that we have to have extracted.


That alone could explain fear aggression and anxiety. It may not be the sole cause, but there's a good chance the the problems will improve or disappear once the tooth is taken care of.


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## Sheila (Apr 9, 2008)

Jack's thyroid test came back normal so it's off to obedience classes next week.


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## daisy&jack (Oct 5, 2006)

*Richmond Affordable Surgical Care*

Sheila - I also live in Richmond and wanted to let you know about Helping Hands on Cary St. They only do surgical procedures so that they can keep the cost of their procedures more affordable. Their goal is that no pet goes without heath care because of cost. The reason I mention this option to you is that they also do dental work. They have been recognized for their work in Richmond and were also on Good Morning America. I have brought both of my golden retrievers there for growth removals and they have been wonderful! They have a web site that you can look at if you are interested.


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