# Children training a dog



## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Flip has made quite an impression on some people when I've stuck him in some fun matches. 

There is a lady that keeps emailing me, asking me about Flip's pedigree and his breeder. She now has her eye on two different litters by my breeder, one of them from Flip's sire.

She says her daughter wants a dog to train, but she wants to make sure that if her daughter doesn't follow through it would be a dog she would want to take over the training with. I'm not sure what her daughter's age is, but I'm guessing somewhere in the 9-12 range.

I think many of you have heard enough of my Flip stories to have an basic idea of what type of dog he is. Lots of drive, lots of energy, not at all a soft, sensitive dog. Go, go, go, boing, boing, boing all the time. These are the traits that drew this lady towards him. While I have a blast training him, I tend to think a dog like him would be a bit much for a child. 

What are your thoughts?


----------



## inge (Sep 20, 2009)

Did you tell/mail the lady your thoughts?


----------



## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

yeah, I mentioned I thought it would be a bit much for a child to handle, but I don't have experience with children training dogs so I wanted to get others opinions before I _really_ try to set her straight!


----------



## kgiff (Jul 21, 2008)

It depends on the child. Has the child grown up around dogs with a lot of drive? Has the child trained other dogs? 

There are a few junior handlers around here that have their own dogs that they have done all the training on themselves and some of these teams are quite impressive. If the kid has never been involved in training a dog before, then I'd say yes. But not knowing the kid or their history, I don't think it's fair to say one way or another.


----------



## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

It depends on the kid. Some kids are fantastic trainers and others--not so much.

FWIW, I started in dogs when I was 12 with a one-year old sheltie who would nip me in the butt when we first started training agility. Somehow--with hardly anyone's help--I managed to get a CD and NAJ on her after she and I both got older (and I got job, lol).


----------



## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

soooo depends on the kid! 
Some kids are just naturals...patient, consistent and have great timing...
Others NOT!!!!!!


----------



## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Depends on the kid, but in general, I'd say a little "less" dog is a better way to go.

And what do they want to train the dog *for*? Do they want to compete, or do they want an awesome pet dog that can do lots of neat stuff?


----------



## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Shoot. Dogs like Quiz and Flip are too much for inexperienced ADULTS to handle! ;-) I've said his whole life that if he landed in a pet home, he would've been in the shelter at six months. And I'm only half kidding.


----------



## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

I started taking our first golden to obedience classes when I was around 11 or 12 (with my father, but I was the primary person working with her at that point). Though I wouldn't call her a high drive field dog, she was pretty out of control... a pet store pup with some temperament issues. We did great at class... my father moved onto Novice classes with her (they interfered with my soccer practices, unfortunately). I agree that it depends on the child... but it also depends on the parent. Though the child may not have much dog experience, if the mother is savvy she can guide her daughter through it all. I know you got Flip from a great breeder, so beyond mentioning your doubts which you've already done I would leave it to the breeder to help this family find the right dog for them -- whether from one of her own litters or that of another breeder she recommends to them. 

On a side note, you must be so proud of your pup! Inspiring golden lovers everywhere! 

Julie and Jersey


----------



## IowaGold (Nov 3, 2009)

Is the mother experienced? I think that will make the most difference. If mom's experienced she can help the kid make the dog into something good. If mom isn't experienced with high drive dogs, I think it's a terrible idea.

One of my good friends bought a lower drive sheltie to be the "kid's" dog. Well the involvement of the kids didn't last long. She's now "stuck" with a dog that she doesn't truly enjoy training/showing because he's not her type (I'm not saying she doesn't love him to pieces, he's just not the type of dog she really wants to compete with).


----------



## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

FlyingQuizini said:


> Shoot. Dogs like Quiz and Flip are too much for inexperienced ADULTS to handle! ;-) I've said his whole life that if he landed in a pet home, he would've been in the shelter at six months. And I'm only half kidding.


I know what you mean! I'm always wondering about Flip's littermates that ended up in pet homes, and how they've done this past year.

The mom has been competing in obedience for awhile with poodles. She just got her first golden (Reno son/Speaker grandson) that is a couple of months younger than Flip. She is loving her pup's eagerness to do everything, but she said he doesn't have the same level of drive as Flip and is a lot softer, and wants a dog with a little more. So I'm not sure if she's really going into this thinking her daughter is going to train it, or if this is really more of an excuse to get a new pup.


----------



## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Jersey's Mom said:


> On a side note, you must be so proud of your pup! Inspiring golden lovers everywhere!


Of course it's flattering when someone likes your dog, but it also concerns me when someone thinks thats the type of dog they want based on watching it a few minutes in a ring. I should start renting Flip out for a week and see how many people change their minds!!:curtain:


----------



## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Loisiana said:


> Of course it's flattering when someone likes your dog, but it also concerns me when someone thinks thats the type of dog they want based on watching it a few minutes in a ring. I should start renting Flip out for a week and see how many people change their minds!!:curtain:


Haha, exactly!

At least people who are active in dog sports know a bit more than the average pet owner. I've lost track of how many random people in parks have asked where they can get a Golden who "knows that stuff" when they see us training.

Yeah. Like he came that way. :doh:


----------



## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

Loisiana said:


> Of course it's flattering when someone likes your dog, but it also concerns me when someone thinks thats the type of dog they want based on watching it a few minutes in a ring. I should start renting Flip out for a week and see how many people change their minds!!:curtain:


Might be a nice way to raise some funds for trialing!! LOL  I do understand the concern... a lot of people inquire about Goldens, assuming they're all just like Jersey right out of the box... I brought him to a work picnic and had to spend the next 2 weeks explaining to a co-worker that even goldens start off as land sharks and require a lot of work. Her kids kept coming up to pet Jersey, then running away screaming if he moved his head to look at them (they did eventually calm down with him, hours later).... I could just imagine them doing that with a 6-8 month old pup who has all the size but none of the restraint :no:

Julie and Jersey


----------



## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

I understand and agree with most all the posts. Probably it would be too much dog. HOWEVER the breeder can pick the quiet pup in the litter for them... Also I think our dogs that "do" a lot, demand to be busy too. I think if from the get go the pup has an average life, it can learn to adjust, unless the brain just is not right. 

My dogs are so used to having a lot of exercise everyday if they go a day or so without because of weather or other commitments, they start to come uncorked. 

I have my first REAL live wire in Quinn. I am loving it but she is a handful. 

ann


----------



## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Well she just emailed me in respose to me telling her I thought a dog like Flip might be too much for a kid, and she said she'd probably hand over her other golden to her kid and take the new pup for herself.


----------



## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Every child is different. I will say that I have had some kids in my classes that blew me away and any adult could learn a LOT from how they handled their dogs - mainly it is about the child having a good mentor who s/he can trust and who provides sound guidance. Often that is _not_ a parent. 
I love having children in my classes and there are many who have impressed me greatly.


----------



## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

Loisiana said:


> Well she just emailed me in respose to me telling her I thought a dog like Flip might be too much for a kid, and she said she'd probably hand over her other golden to her kid and take the new pup for herself.


Okay I'm gonna say it. I stopped typing this post at least 5 times but here goes.. I am surprised that a Speaker grandson would not have everything she is looking for. Makes me wonder if she took the spunk out of the dog and now wants to try it with a new puppy. You know we have all made mistakes along the way when learning and you just have to work it out... if she is giving up on her young dog that early... I would run.. Sorry..I would let your breeder know and let them make that decision. I know Titan would have been sent back or worse..... He was naughty and I loved every minute but in the wrong hands it could have been a disaster and I shudder to think what would have happened to this wonderful dog if his owner had a heavy hand..


----------



## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

I see a lot of kids with a lot of dogs through my 4-H work.

If the kid really wants to do dog stuff..... then it could go very well provided there is the parental support (for supplies, classes, books, etc) and encouragement. My main concern would be that the child will not be able to physically handle the dog for several years (....think "if a herd of deer went past"). And of course I'm hesitant about the dangers of a 'high drive' dog in the hands of a child when punishment is being utilized.... 

It might be better if the child handles the 1yo dog and in a year or two the mom gets 'her' dog. A kid that age working a dog needs parental assistance, usually we have the parents holding hte leash so the dog is "fake off leash" and hte kids don't have to be worried about getting pulled around. It would be great for the two of them and the dog!


----------



## IowaGold (Nov 3, 2009)

Titan1 said:


> Okay I'm gonna say it. I stopped typing this post at least 5 times but here goes.. I am surprised that a Speaker grandson would not have everything she is looking for. Makes me wonder if she took the spunk out of the dog and now wants to try it with a new puppy. You know we have all made mistakes along the way when learning and you just have to work it out... if she is giving up on her young dog that early... I would run.. Sorry..I would let your breeder know and let them make that decision. I know Titan would have been sent back or worse..... He was naughty and I loved every minute but in the wrong hands it could have been a disaster and I shudder to think what would have happened to this wonderful dog if his owner had a heavy hand..


I would have said the same thing before I got Piper. I was extremely disappointed in her for a long time because she didn't have much drive. She did learn, but just wasn't like Ruby. She has since "turned on", but it was only a month or six weeks ago (we are almost 11 months now). I absolutely did not use a heavy hand with her. She just came that way. Piper is MH** X MH bred and is Ruby's niece/cousin (Ruby has always had all the drive one could ever want-another one that would have been terrible in a pet home). Piper would have been totally fine going to a pet home even though she was the pick performance puppy from her litter (breeder's pick, not mine).

I agree she shouldn't be giving up on a puppy so early, but without first hand knowledge, I would not go so far as to say she caused the dog to be soft. If her daughter really is serious, I think it would be a good thing to be pairing her with a little bit older dog where you pretty much have an idea what the temperament is going to be like rather than a baby puppy.


----------



## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

Loisiana said:


> ar.
> 
> . She is loving her pup's eagerness to do everything, but she said he doesn't have the same level of drive as Flip and is a lot softer, and wants a dog with a little more.
> 
> What more would you want as a parent for your child's dog...Eagerness to learn..Sorry this would be perfect in my book..


----------



## goldengirls550 (Jun 12, 2008)

Honestly, it depends alot on the handler. I am a former junior handler (for AKC, UKC I still am considered a junior until the end of this year). I began formally training Golden Retrievers at age 14 although I have been working with dogs since I was a little kid. I have 2 Goldens with complete opposite personalities. Aubrie is very laid back and complacent. Layla has alot of drive and energy and always wants to go. Personally, I know that Aubrie is a much better PET. Layla makes a much better competition dog (for me). I like Layla's "Up" attitude, but I know alot of people would not want to live with it. Layla is too high energy for most young children as well. So it really depends what the junior can handle. Layla's personality is just perfect for me, but again, she's not a perfect match for everyone...


----------



## goldengirls550 (Jun 12, 2008)

FlyingQuizini said:


> Haha, exactly!
> 
> At least people who are active in dog sports know a bit more than the average pet owner. I've lost track of how many random people in parks have asked where they can get a Golden who "knows that stuff" when they see us training.
> 
> Yeah. Like he came that way. :doh:


Steph, this made me laugh. I was playing frisbee the other evening in the park with Layla and I can't tell you how many people came up to ask how Layla learned all of "those tricks" and even if I taught them to her. :


----------



## Mighty Casey and Samson's Mom (Jul 16, 2008)

I agree with Stephanie. As a newbie to dog performance activities, I would not want a really high drive dog! I need a dog to match what I am capable of right now. I am getting a new puppy this summer, and, while I want a bit more drive this time around, still do not want a dog that is too much for where I am at...and I have made sure that the breeder selecting the pup for me, knows that.
(and I am far from a junior handler!!)


----------

