# Correcting a Stand



## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Bumping up


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## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

One option would be some platform work. If he's stretching out too far in his stand, size the platform so that his front and back feet _just _fit when he is in the correct position. Hopefully, muscle memory will eventually help him understand that "'stand' feels like this." Another option would be to use two smaller platforms and teach him to put his front feet on one and his rear feet on the other. Place the platforms to get the exact position you want.

I recently saw a great way to build a stand platform using rigid insulation topped with a yoga mat for traction. I'm sure you can find other instructions online or on YouTube.

These videos may (or may not) be helpful:


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

There's a lot of muscle memory + what the dog automatically does himself. And generally by the time the dogs are adults there is a blurring of lines between what the dog was born with and how he has been conditioned to stand.

Then even now I always work in front of a mirror - even now. I can tell what my dogs are doing by seeing the set of their pelvis and shoulders from above, but I still set up in front of a mirror and check what we do vs what the judge sees.

Would suggest getting a big mirror - nothing too expensive, but something big enough where you can see the whole dog when you set it up. Or using mirrors at your training club if they have them.

Early on you will place his feet - it's kinda difficult to describe and it was more something I was shown in person. It's grasping right elbow so toes are off the ground and then gently placing back down so toes are are straight line down from his shoulder. Then you do left leg. Picking up by elbows allows you to rotate so the feet are straight vs turning in or out. 

We do this even for pups who do not turn their toes in or out - to get them used to having their feet placed. And sometimes as toe nails grow or dogs get old injuries here or there, they may develop a habit of turning toes out or something with one foot and this is why you want them used to you placing the feet or getting them to correct their feet. 

Back feet, you grasp by the hock and place so your finger goes down the hock and you can tell without looking that the hocks are straight up and down. You do left and right and done.

^ The above foot placement should be done in under 5 seconds, because if you have to place feet, you learn to do it fast while judge is walking down the line or looking at the next dog. Some judges are kind and keep their head turned to allow extra time. Some are not.

After you do all the foot placement, you have the baiting to train your dog to relax his back and shift his weight correctly. What you describe with the roach, etc... is basically what's going on here. He's never been asked to hold his feet in certain spots, and you are backed away and not supporting him so he's looks rigid in the photo. Practicing with you next to him and holding his head up and guiding him so he shifts his weight up and forward - it is all that muscle memory stuff that helps long term. It's how very experienced show dogs immediately set their feet and stack up 6 feet out, because they know what their job is. 

If this is something you plan to do - give it time every day. It's like training articles. I've been working articles with both my dogs and believe me the temptation is to jump ahead to just pouring all my articles out on the floor and scenting the one like 12-3-6 o' clock (where judges normally stick the article) like usual and going with it. But am doing all the steps I know to take to ensure that my dogs have that foundation in place. So we did the straight line with 3 articles (including the one scented) and kept adding. And we gradually added and expanded until we currently have a few articles spread out while my dogs are learning to work the pile. And we are still going carefully. 

Training stacks is a lot easier than training articles because you can be hands on and food in the face about it.... but it does require a foundation as well. A lot of the obedience dogs who learned kick back stands etc.... get very stiff and unsure when their owners are placing feet because they are trying very hard to hold stay and they have not been conditioned to relax and stretch forward etc...


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Forgot to say -

With his stack above, his front feet are too far forward and he's posting (on his heels and pushing back to his rear). Back feet are more or less fine, but he is squatting (probably because he's not sure what he doing the sweetie <B). 

Stay at his side while practicing.

We hold the head up and guide forward with the left hand and bait with the right. 

If he learns to relax into the stack and lean forward with the fronts under him, that will fix the issue with his hocks (\) and his topline. 

It just needs practice. Gotta run (my mom's not allowed to drive and I hear her jingling keys to the garage)


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

Thanks! I don't plan to do conformation unless I get bored at the UKC shows. He has a decent topline but you wouldn't know it by the way he stands. There's a couple of reasons I'm wanting to make his stand better. I want it to look better in the ring and I want a couple of photos of him standing properly. You are absolutely right about the squat. He does that when he's unsure. I threw my keys to get him to face straight ahead. His head is down because it was killing him not to fetch my keys. He picks them and everything else up for me. 

The platform would work as well. Although, he will avoid putting his paws on it. We are working through using paws on command right now. (We do trick titles too) He uses them to play the game he invented. He rolls balls under large objects and fishes them out using his paws. My friend says it's a mental block.

I know it's my fault he does it. I didn't teach him to stack.


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## green branch (Oct 24, 2020)

Pawsnpaca thank you for the great idea on how to teach a dog correct obedience positions.


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