# HRC - puppy stake



## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

Not sure about puppy stake. 
I might go ahead and give Started a try. Delivery to area not hand and if you don't pass in one series you can still play in the next.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

If he has two JH passes he can easily do Started.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Swampcollie, two different dogs. Older dog, Flip, I'm not worried about, but my younger dog has had very limited training opportunities. not so much concerned with land for him, but his water training has been limited to some nice easy bumpers in the middle of the water. He loves water, not concerned with him not it wanting to go in, he just hasn't experienced anything other than the most basic, easy marks when it comes to water.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I could be wrong, but I think puppy stakes are under 6 months old. 
Anyone else know the answer?


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Good luck with whatever you do Loisiana.


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

What are you worried about with Phoenix? Maybe just enter the 2nd day. Bring him and let him hear everything day 1 and then bring him out for day 2.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

Loisiana said:


> Swampcollie, two different dogs. Older dog, Flip, I'm not worried about, but my younger dog has had very limited training opportunities. not so much concerned with land for him, but his water training has been limited to some nice easy bumpers in the middle of the water. He loves water, not concerned with him not it wanting to go in, he just hasn't experienced anything other than the most basic, easy marks when it comes to water.


Shala hadn't retrieved a duck on water until test day - only bumpers, as well. We had worked with ducks a lot on land, though. My trainer said water is a bit easier for a dog who loves ducks because they can't run away with it.  Anyway - all this to say - she didn't hesitate with the ducks in water, and she returned them even better than on land.


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

When I've watched/ran started the only dogs who failed were, dogs who didn't retrieve, wouldn't give up the duck at all, ate the duck or escaped their confinement and ran out on the field. Last one happened when Gabby was running, judge #2 tackled the dog before it connected with Gabby. She would NOT have been happy if that dog tried to get her duck!

So if you think Phoenix will go 60 yards pick up a duck and come back toward you, go for it. You can back up until they cross the line the judges set for the retrieve. I had judges tell handlers "run over there!"


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Can you connect with your mentor and try a more complicated water mark with a duck? Then decide?

If you plan on going further with Phoenix in field, you might want to expose him first to what he might see in a test (duck in water and a more complicated water retrieve) before you enter ... mama Towhee can be very creative and he may just take after her .... 

Flip should definitely have a shot


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I know HRC is supposed to be easier than AKC, but I've never actually seen a test. I know I would not put him in an AKC test at this point, because he has no experience with a lot of the concepts he'd be likely to run into. He's done water marks a total of maybe 4 times in his life? From what I've seen of WC water work, I'd probably be comfortable putting him in that. Not really knowing where HRC falls between there, I was just thinking better to hold off and get some training in rather than enter him and cross my fingers (the crossed fingers training method rarely works for me!). I don't see us having any opportunities to train between now and the test.

Not only do I not want him to learn things he shouldn't, but also when I bring a golden to the line I want him to have the potential to knock people's socks off, and not perpetuate any negative stereotypes the gallery might be thinking towards goldens. So while my spirit tells me it would be fun to enter him and see how he does, my brain keeps telling me to wait.


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

I agree Jodie. If you are worried, it is best to wait!! His time will come.


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## lhowemt (Jun 28, 2013)

Argh, forget the gallery vultures and go have fun if you want. Neener neener to them! :O

Might he gain more with the exposure vs learn something wrong?


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

lhowemt said:


> Argh, forget the gallery vultures and go have fun if you want. Neener neener to them! :O
> 
> *Might he gain more with the exposure vs learn something wrong*?


The risk with this could be that he might learn that it is okay to dawdle back with the duck, or not give it up. In a training situation, you can correct immediately and not tolerate the behaviour. You can't in a test.

This is exactly where we are at. Shala was a little reluctant to give up the duck on her land retrieves on the weekend. She slowed down before the line each time and needed a lot of encouraging (and eventually stern ordering) to get her butt to the line with the duck. If we keep on competing, she will keep doing that and think it's okay. We need to focus our attention there in training and eliminate that behaviour now. 

But if your only concern is the retrieves on water, if he is reliable with duck retrieves on land, chances are he will be even better on water. In HRC, you can encourage them back as much as you want, and you can re-leash or touch the dog as much as you need to reposition between the two retrieves (you just can't be rough or intimidating in any way to him).


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

my concern isn't so much with bringing the duck back, it's with finding the duck in the first place. Not really concerned on land, he's a good marker and will put up a good hunt if needed. But he's never done anything in water like an in and out, not even had a mark land in heavy cover in water. So if it's just a duck plopped in the middle of a pond, I'm not concerned. But I know some of the stuff I've seen in junior is way beyond anything he's ever tried (crossing an island for example). He might do fine with that kind of stuff on the first try, but a test probably isn't the best place to first try it. But I have no idea what the water marks are actually like in HRC.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Go and watch and get their early (or ask the test secretary or head marshal before hand) and run test dog!! Do that Saturday and then day-of enter on Sunday if you want!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

what Anney said


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

I third what Anney said!


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

You can enter on the day of at an HRC Test. Get there early and watch a couple of dogs run. Ask the judges questions. If you think he can do their test, enter the dog and run.


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## goldlover68 (Jun 17, 2013)

Loisiana said:


> I know HRC is supposed to be easier than AKC, but I've never actually seen a test. I know I would not put him in an AKC test at this point, because he has no experience with a lot of the concepts he'd be likely to run into. He's done water marks a total of maybe 4 times in his life? From what I've seen of WC water work, I'd probably be comfortable putting him in that. Not really knowing where HRC falls between there, I was just thinking better to hold off and get some training in rather than enter him and cross my fingers (the crossed fingers training method rarely works for me!). I don't see us having any opportunities to train between now and the test.
> 
> Not only do I not want him to learn things he shouldn't, but also when I bring a golden to the line I want him to have the potential to knock people's socks off, and not perpetuate any negative stereotypes the gallery might be thinking towards goldens. So while my spirit tells me it would be fun to enter him and see how he does, my brain keeps telling me to wait.


I have ran in both HR and AKC hunt tests and agree that HR is easier. The generally are shorter distance and they allow a much less formal retrieve. If they bring the duck back to the area where you are they can pass. But, beware they will ask you to use a gun and/or sit on a seat at the started level. You can and should ask for someone to stand next to you and do the gun. Also, I did have a judge include a 'walk up' in the started level. I had not trained for this....so although the retrieves are generally shorter and not as complex, it depends on the judges. 

I never run my dogs in JH unless they are absolutely ready. Why would I risk a bad training run, after all I have done to make my dog successful? I agree with what you say.....


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