# Puppy staying with littermates & breeder from 8 weeks to 12 weeks



## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

It would so depend on the energy level of the breeder for socializing the pup, and not just having mom babysit. It would take a very, very big & commendable effort from the breeder. We have a checklist on the fridge( thanks LibertyME) that says things like walk on 12 surfaces, ride an elevator, meet 100 friendly people, get used to umbrella etc. I would not expect my pup's breeder to do all this. However, in small breed dogs like papillons I think it is a very crucial thing, and if the golden breeder has a philosophy and a great plan, and all the littermates stayed, I can see it could be great for the owners. It would just represent heroic poop picking up/ housebreaking/ crate training/ experience giving 110 percent effort for the breeder. I cant see how I could do weeks 10 to 12 as well as the new families do without quitting my job and neglecting my five adult dogs. It would be a drawback to have them just hang out all together with mom as a babysitter in a puppy room or pen, without the above stimulations and learning.


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## CharlieBear80 (Oct 13, 2013)

I agree, it would take one very dedicated breeder to make sure the pups were all getting the proper training and exposure to the world that I'd want to be sure my pup had between 8-12 weeks.

Is this the breeder wanting to keep the pups until 12 weeks or you wanting the breeder to keep the pup for you?


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

I agree with the replies above - and I would just add (if it's you wanting to leave the puppy with the breeder, rather than vice versa) - those weeks are really fun for a new owner. You get to introduce your pup to lots of new things - and see their reactions, and help build their confidence. Sure, it's also hard work because you are doing the house training, but that just comes with the territory. The fun far outweighs the work. (Plus the house training work is good for bonding, or at least I find it is). 

My first pup stayed with my breeder til 9 weeks old because I couldn't get time off work til then. My current pup came home at 8 weeks. I wouldn't necessarily want to wait much later than 9 weeks - you'd miss too much fun!


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## baltic (Jul 4, 2014)

Okay, thank you for the input. I'll definitely target 8 to 9 week for the GR puppy


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## astomb (Dec 28, 2013)

After seven weeks the pups should be crated individually. They need individual training and lots of social contact. I had a buyer who needed me to keep their pup an extra nine days. It was good to have a pair of pups to train and watch as they grew and progressed. I was glad that I had a clause in the puppy contract that included a daily fee for keeping pups past 53 days. Working with an extra pup does not take that much time, but I was ready to see the puppy off to his home. 
Spencer


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## SadieSunshine (Feb 27, 2014)

Ljilly28 said:


> It would so depend on the energy level of the breeder for socializing the pup, and not just having mom babysit. It would take a very, very big & commendable effort from the breeder. We have a checklist on the fridge( thanks LibertyME) that says things like walk on 12 surfaces, ride an elevator, meet 100 friendly people, get used to umbrella etc. I would not expect my pup's breeder to do all this. However, in small breed dogs like papillons I think it is a very crucial thing, and if the golden breeder has a philosophy and a great plan, and all the littermates stayed, I can see it could be great for the owners. It would just represent heroic poop picking up/ housebreaking/ crate training/ experience giving 110 percent effort for the breeder. I cant see how I could do weeks 10 to 12 as well as the new families do without quitting my job and neglecting my five adult dogs. It would be a drawback to have them just hang out all together with mom as a babysitter in a puppy room or pen, without the above stimulations and learning.


That sounds like a great checklist. Is it posted on the forum?

Oops- just checked the stickies and found it.


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## astomb (Dec 28, 2013)

There is a significant body of research on puppy behavior, bonding and trainability that was done in the 1940's. This is the work that set 49 days as the time to separate the mom and pups and place them in a new home. This work also showed that keeping a litter together after 49 days as a pack of pups led to behavioral problems. 

In some breeds it is difficult to evaluate puppies at 7 weeks and you cannot fly a pup to a new home before 8 weeks. To some that is a lost week. See: New knowledge of dog behavior by C. Pfaffenberger.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

baltic said:


> What are the advantages and disadvantages of having a puppy stay with the mother and littermates from 8 weeks until 12 weeks?
> 
> Is there valuable additional "learning" that happens from 8 weeks until 12 weeks that would warrant extra time with littermates and mother?


I am curious if this is for your convenience of if this is the breeder's choice? Also, did the breeder mention the socialization aspect of this?

I have a Collie and it is typical of Collie breeders to wait to make a decision on which puppy they keep for themselves until the 12 week mark. My boy came home at 12 weeks and was SO easy but I think this is because he came from a small litter (only 4) and his breeder is home with her dogs. 

These puppies lived like pet puppies in her kitchen and were loved on and babied. My collie is a very easy going and confident dog, so the lack of 'regular world' socialization did not cause him any problems. (he was in a rural environment rather than our suburban/town setting) I do know that a neighbor child came to play with them quite a bit and the litter was small enough to go places, even came to visit my house once when they went for eye checks at 10 weeks. I would only be ok with leaving a puppy an extra month with a breeder under exceptional circumstances (trusting the breeder to handle socializing very carefully) because it is such a critical time. There are so many potential down sides to this not being done right. I will say that on the upside, a puppy benefits so much from the extra time with litter mates and will have wonderful bite inhibition and 'doggy manners' that are allowed to develop during that time. A puppy at 8 weeks learns his bite inhibition on you


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## janababy (Jan 2, 2012)

WE did not get Buddy till he was three months old. He was still with 3 sisters and 4 brothers. I was so worried that he would be "too old" for training and bonding. Boy was I wrong. When he came home he was house broken in three days. The biggest thing for us was that he was, that he was not a "land shark". We never had nipping and biting issues that we had with our first golden. The breeder said that spending extra time with MOm and siblings would help remove that behaviour. She was so right. He socialized beautifully. I would vertainly consider doing it again at that age.


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## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

I wouldn't worry about the bonding, I would worry about the socialization. So it would depend on the breeder. 

When I was a kid my family got our bridge sheltie from a local breeder. I believe he was between 3 and 4 months old. He had been the pick of the let and the breeder was going to use him for showing. I think both his parents were champions. We got him at that point because the breeder determined that he was going to be too big for the breed standard. 

The breeder had named him Tyson. We changed his name to Derby with no problems. He was all potty trained. Very calm for a puppy. Only destroyed one pair of mom's slippers, never another thing. The breeder had been raising him with her shelties in the house, and if I remember right they had a play area in the backyard. I don't know what she did for socialization if anything. 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Rileysmomma (Feb 6, 2014)

Our breeder flat out said no to picking Riley up later than 8 weeks. We had a week long trip planned the month after we picked him up. Asked if we could bring him home after that trip so as to not have to confuse him. Nope....there is a ton of bonding and socialization that happens that first month! But, they did tell us we could bring him back to them for that week!! It was 2 hrs each way...4 hrs the day we traveled and then 4 hrs the day after we got home...but it was worth it.
On the other hand, our first golden was nearly 4 months old when we got him...the breeder was going to keep him but decided not to. He was never a huggy dog! He was happiest outside..he loved his family but he wasn't the same as the golden 'cling-ons' that we've had since then!


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## PiratesAndPups (Sep 24, 2013)

To me, it's such a crucial bonding time for you and your pup. If he/she stays with the breeder, it will develop bonds with it's littermates and the breeder when it should be bonding to you. You also miss out on a few weeks of crucial training time. 

Also, they are just too adorable at that age to miss a single day of it, let alone a few weeks. You don't want to look back later a regret missing that tiny puppy time because, believe me, they get big fast.


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## astomb (Dec 28, 2013)

The 49 day and then off to the new environment was based on work with large sample size and more than one breed. They were breeding and training dogs for the K9 Corps. They followed the progress of the dogs for a full year.

I would look for a different puppy if it had stayed with litter mates past eight weeks unless I was sure that the pups had been crated separately and had a lot of human contact and individual training. I do not want to miss out on a month of bonding and training. The traits of the breed we all love may lead to an acceptable outcome of staying in the pack longer than 7 weeks.


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

I believe it needs to individualized.

I got RIP Lucky when he was 6 weeks old- This was in 1998. He was 1 of 14/15 pups and the breeder had another litter of 12 pups. He was the biggest of all the pups. He was over 10 pounds!! He was also going to be in a home with someone present majority of the day. The longest he was going to be alone and crated was 4 hours. With that many pups there was no way the breeder could adequately socialize all those pups. The last of Lucky's litter was 13 weeks old when she was placed. We were given strict instructions on his care and the breeder has us call almost daily to check in on his progress.

Cozy (Yorkies) was 16 weeks when I got her.

Cozy's pups were from 10-18 weeks when they were set to their forever homes. It was puppy and home dependent. The pup that went at 10 week was going to a home with someone present 24/7, 4 Other yorkies, 3 cats, and Family friends with almost daily contact. We were given daily updates for months about both pups he purchased from us- Separate litters over a year apart from Cozy. I started Socializing Cozy's pups at 6 weeks of age. They are all outgoing and full of themselves.


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