# Was it just exhaustion?



## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

I've had exactly that problem with my dog, Gus. He would overdo it pretty quickly and develop symptoms of heat exhaustion. It doesn't take much for a double-coated retriever to overheat, and it doesn't have to be very hot. Gus once did it in 15 minutes of fetching. He showed no symptoms and then suddenly collapsed, stood up again, and staggered around. It was incredibly scary.

He recovered fairly quickly once I wet him down and made him lie in the shade. It happened one other time in his life, because I was careless and it felt cool enough to me (mid seventies).

Gus was a picky eater, so hyponatremia (not enough salt) may have exacerbated things too. I would call it heat exhaustion, not stroke, because it never really progressed to the symptoms of true heat stroke.

I wouldn't worry about it, but be aware that an intense dog can overdo it fairly easily in a retrieving game, and it doesn't take very high temperatures to hit that point. I learned that I had to make a conservative judgment call about when to stop Gus in a working game (like retrieving) because his desire to work and retrieve was a lot stronger than his sense of pain or discomfort. He never once did it to himself on a hike, even on hot days and long hikes off leash. It took that retrieving drive to turn off his good sense.

As a side note, he once gave himself a nasty gash on the leg during a fetching game in a rainstorm. He didn't stop, flinch, limp, or otherwise indicate it until we got home and were drying him off and found a ton of blood on the towel. It took eight staples to close it up. The dog was a classic competition retriever: totally stoic when in working mode. ****, he was a great dog.


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## IowaGold (Nov 3, 2009)

EIC (excerise induced collapse) is not common at all in goldens (it is in labs), but I would probably put this on the differential list. There is a genetic test for labs-not sure if there is a laboratory in you country that runs the test or if it would have to be sent to the US for processing.

Since this has happened twice, I'd strongly consider carrying a rectal thermometer with me when walking and take his temperature during the next episode (I'd probably also take his temp several times after playing so you know what it would be normally-keep in mind that the temp can go up pretty impressively in totally normal dogs). In dogs with EIC, the temp should be normal (by normal I mean what would be normally elevated for the work/play the dog was doing). If it is some sort of a seizure, the temp should be elevated above normal.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I'm concerned about heat exhaustion if he's panting a lot and collapsed.  

It could be your dog can't handle really hot temps and isn't smart enough to tell you when it's time to go inside. <- 80 degrees is still walking weather, but generally in the evenings so the dog isn't out in the full sun. 

Playing fetch for an hour is a bit more exertion than just walking, especially if your golden retrieves like mine (my guy leaps into the air to grab things before they land). 

I would address it with the vet and have them do a physical exam and heart listen. But in the future, take it easy on hot days.


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## West (Jul 9, 2010)

It doesn't look like a seizure at all. I'll read about EIC and see if it fits.
But it is exactly the same as tippykayak described. Same symptoms and quick initial recovery.
You are absolutely right, Coop seems impervious to pain and discomfort while fetching -actually, I guess that the only reason why he stopped for a while yesterday was not to rest but because there were other dogs nearby and he didn't want to share the ball. 
I'll reduce fetching while it's hot to no more than 15 minutes. Thanks for the advice!


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

IowaGold said:


> EIC (excerise induced collapse) is not common at all in goldens (it is in labs), but I would probably put this on the differential list. There is a genetic test for labs-not sure if there is a laboratory in you country that runs the test or if it would have to be sent to the US for processing.
> 
> Since this has happened twice, I'd strongly consider carrying a rectal thermometer with me when walking and take his temperature during the next episode (I'd probably also take his temp several times after playing so you know what it would be normally-keep in mind that the temp can go up pretty impressively in totally normal dogs). In dogs with EIC, the temp should be normal (by normal I mean what would be normally elevated for the work/play the dog was doing). If it is some sort of a seizure, the temp should be elevated above normal.


My dog to whom this happened is no longer alive, so it's not terribly important to diagnose this, but since it only happened on warm days and since cooling him off and giving him some rest put him totally back to normal, would that make EIC less likely than something heat related?

It was like he got drunk, sort of staggering around, ignoring me (which was a big deal for this dog, since he loved to work and do as he was asked). 

It never happened on mild days or during water retrieving. And this guy would come out in the lake to where we were floating and hanging out, bring the ball with him, and ask us to throw it for him for 45 minutes or more, during which he never went back to shore (eventually I'd have to go back to shore with him and force him to rest on a long down-stay so he wouldn't drown himself).


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

West said:


> It doesn't look like a seizure at all. I'll read about EIC and see if it fits.
> But it is exactly the same as tippykayak described. Same symptoms and quick initial recovery.
> You are absolutely right, Coop seems impervious to pain and discomfort while fetching -actually, I guess that the only reason why he stopped for a while yesterday was not to rest but because there were other dogs nearby and he didn't want to share the ball.
> I'll reduce fetching while it's hot to no more than 15 minutes. Thanks for the advice!


One other thing that worked for Gus was a wet coat. If he was soaked to the skin, he could go a lot longer on a hot day. Not that I'd push it just because your dog is wet, but if it's heat related (though keep an eye on the EIC symptoms), that would help.

Be aware that IowaGold is a real vet and I'm not even a pretend vet, so value her advice way higher than mine.


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## West (Jul 9, 2010)

I have to say he usually pants after walking as he finds it hard to calm down. He's an almost 8 month old pup with lots of energy. I wouldn't say the panting was something unusual. The staggering and the dizziness were.
He's also on antibiotics for a cough, but the vet listened to his heart and upper respiratory tract on Sunday and everything was fine. 
Yes, he may not be able to handle these temps. It happened in the evening, I try to avoid direct sun for his sake (and mine).


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## West (Jul 9, 2010)

tippykayak said:


> It was like he got drunk, sort of staggering around, ignoring me (which was a big deal for this dog, since he loved to work and do as he was asked).
> 
> It never happened on mild days or during water retrieving. And this guy would come out in the lake to where we were floating and hanging out, bring the ball with him, and ask us to throw it for him for 45 minutes or more, during which he never went back to shore (eventually I'd have to go back to shore with him and force him to rest on a long down-stay so he wouldn't drown himself).


It looked exactly like that! As if he were drunk! And he got better right after I gave him more water and wet his head.

I've read that a wet coat can actually increase his body temperature, but spraying just a bit of water on them helps them cool down. 

Also, no genetic tests are available here, but if his vet suspects anything like EIC, I'll be willing to send the test to a lab abroad.

I strongly suspect it's heat and exercise related, as it only happened in hot days after more walking or exercise than usual. I've read a lot about heat stroke and do my best to prevent it by taking him to the park in the evening, always carrying his bottle of water and so on, bu maybe it's not enough. The thing is he gets extremely bored if I don't take him to the park at all, even if I walk him for the same amount of time. But maybe we should do some quiet games or training, like we do in the morning :S


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Sometimes our goldens will keep on going to the point beyond exhaustion. We have one of those high energy ones who will chase balls until he collapses, if given the opportunity. We've basically stopped outside ball chasing in the summer due to the heat and humidity, even in the early morning or late evening hours. It's a fine line even on cooler days. 

Our boy has had two episodes of rhabdomyolysis
https://health.google.com/health/ref/Rhabdomyolysis, diagnosed the first time at an emergency clinic after a rescue volunteer picnic. We left when he began panting like crazy after chasing uneneding balls thrown by attendees. We got him home, gave him a bath and noticed he was urinating what we thought was blood. We immediately went to the ER and it took 3 veterinarians on duty that day to diagnose him because the rest of his blood work and urinalysis was perfect. One vet did some work at a horse track and saw it in racehorses and that was the only way they came to a diagnosis--the other 2 vets had never seen it in practice before (though in fairness, they were relatively new in their careers). We learned our lesson after that. It's rare in dogs, but it can happen. The red he was excreting was muscle pigment--very scary and very dangerous.


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## Tanyac (Jun 18, 2008)

I'm sorry to hear your dog has had this happen. We once had a Golden who was being cared for by someone else, who took him into a field in the midday sun and threw a ball around, he collapsed & needed urgent veterinary help! Bearing in mind the temperatures in the UK are hardly tropical even in the summer months, it shows that if they are exercising, especially "forced" exercise such as chasing a ball, they can quickly overheat. 

I hope it is something as simple as that, as you will be able to prevent it from happening again. I love the idea of the wet coat, even a soaked towel would help to cool him down quickly. When you get home from a walk, you can lay a wet towel down on the floor for him to lie on also, as this will help to cool him. Even if they drink a lot of water, it will not cool them down enough if they are overheated.

I am wondering how old your dog is as you mention he has recently had a growth spurt? If he is under a year old, I would definitely not be allowing the forced exercise such as throwing a ball continually especially for as long as an hour, as he may be causing hidden damage to his growing joints. I know how difficult it is when they love to chase the ball, but IMO it is never worth the risk of damage to their growing skeleton.

Good luck, I hope he can enjoy his walks in the future without getting too hot


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## Braccarius (Sep 8, 2008)

I'm in Canada and had my family sheltie collapse from heat exhaustion after throwing a ball for him for a while. I hosed him down with water and gave him loads of water. He was violently ill later that night, but had no ill effect the next day. The temps weren't anything remotely close to what any of you would consider hot (80 F) Since then I keep water on hand to douse my dogs with. If we do play fetch its in a place with water so they can cool off if they get too hot.


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## West (Jul 9, 2010)

Thank you all! I'll make sure to mention Rhabdomyolysis and EIC to the vet tomorrow and cut down drastically on the amount of forced exercise. 
Maybe he should only play fetch inside the house for the summer. 
The worst thing is that the summer is just starting and temperatures will increase drastically


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## Our3dogs (Apr 3, 2008)

Definitely carry extra water for him. If I need to cool our dogs down, I wet them down on the stomach and groin area first. Less fur and gets right down to the skin. Water on their heads, and also since they sweat through the pads of their feet, I pour water over the pads of their feet. Since you are now aware of it, you just need to monitor his activity level as he will play as long as he can. Good luck.


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## 2golddogs (Oct 19, 2009)

I would be especially careful on humid days. Jackson has never reached the point of heat exhaustion but I have noticed on humid days, even in the late evening when temps have lowered, it doesn't take long for him to start heavy panting, so we quit with ball fetching pretty quickly.


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## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

An hour is a long time to be chasing a ball, even for an adult. I'd never do that with a puppy for sure. My guys are both insane over chasing a ball too, so I can relate, if we go to the off leash park they usually have e-collars on or they'll just go retrieve for whoever is throwing. They'll both go for the ball regardless of how hot they are, even to the point where they drop the ball and lay or stand there gasping for air. I've had to teach the OH that they do NOT need to retrieve till they stop - they simply won't stop till they collapsed I'm sure!

Instead of throwing the ball, just take him to the park and let him walk. Get him some raw bones to chew too, that helps keep them amused. Is there anywhere to swim? Sand and water would tire him out quite nicely too.


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## West (Jul 9, 2010)

He wasn't actually fetching for an hour. He fetched for a while, then rested while chewing the ball, then ran around with other dogs and rested again. We also did some very mild sit-down-stay training with the clicker. We spent an hour there, but he only fetched at times. But it was still a lot, I guess  
There's an artificial lake where I sometimes take him for a swim, bur it's far, I don't own a car and I've been really busy lately. Now I start my holidays, so I'll definitely take him there for some swimming.


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## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

You can also pick up a wading pool for him, fill it and then toss in items for him to play with. Bits of hot dog or frozen peas are a hit.


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## IowaGold (Nov 3, 2009)

tippykayak said:


> My dog to whom this happened is no longer alive, so it's not terribly important to diagnose this, but since it only happened on warm days and since cooling him off and giving him some rest put him totally back to normal, would that make EIC less likely than something heat related?
> 
> It was like he got drunk, sort of staggering around, ignoring me (which was a big deal for this dog, since he loved to work and do as he was asked).
> 
> It never happened on mild days or during water retrieving. And this guy would come out in the lake to where we were floating and hanging out, bring the ball with him, and ask us to throw it for him for 45 minutes or more, during which he never went back to shore (eventually I'd have to go back to shore with him and force him to rest on a long down-stay so he wouldn't drown himself).


I have only suspected it strongly with one of my patients (a young lab). The owners chose not to pursue diagnostics, but to be careful with exercise. This dog would get wobbly and collapse (mentally seeming normal); after a few minutes he'd be able to get back up and seemed totally normal.

Some of the reports I've read about EIC do indicate that high temps and/or humidity can play a role.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

IowaGold said:


> I have only suspected it strongly with one of my patients (a young lab). The owners chose not to pursue diagnostics, but to be careful with exercise. This dog would get wobbly and collapse (mentally seeming normal); after a few minutes he'd be able to get back up and seemed totally normal.
> 
> Some of the reports I've read about EIC do indicate that high temps and/or humidity can play a role.


Thanks for the info. I've been so conservative with other dogs since that I haven't had an opportunity to compare the amount of warm-weather exercise that might trigger it.


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## West (Jul 9, 2010)

No good news here. The vet -Cooper's favourite-, who loves him and wants to be extra careful with him, recommended an appointment with a cardiologist. She told me that everything seems normal but she wants to be on the safe side as this has happened twice and he's very young.
So on Monday Coop will be seeing the cardiologist for an electrocardiogram and possibly a toracic X-ray or ultrasound and he also has a later appointment the same day for his hip and elbow X-rays. I'm so worried. There are so many potentially bad news! I hope everything is ok, but I'll have a hellish weekend. 
He seems to be fine and comfortable right now. I won't take him out until the night, except for a quick walk so that he can go potty. 

I just want him to be a happy, healthy pup.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

I'm sorry you need the cardiac consult but hopefully they won't find anything and that will ease your mind. I think your veterinarian is right to order this, to be on the safe side and to catch any issues early on. 

If you are getting an echo cardiogram they will shave some of his underside, place him on a table and use a probe to get images of his heart. At times they will make audible recordings of his heart beat, which usually gets a dog's attention. If he is nervous it might just distract him. 

We had an echocardiogram and abdominal sonogram on my Toby this past summer when he exhibited extreme heat and exercise intolerance. The sonogram showed no abnormalities whatsoever, but the echo indicated some mild mitral valve issues that we will monitor twice a year. The cardiologist reviewing the report also diagnosed mild hypertension; however, the blood pressures were taken at the end of an hour examination on a table with the probe and 3 of us holding him in place and both his regular veterinarian and I felt he was anxious at the time it was read. We are monitoring it and I'm doing at home checks every 3 months that the cardiologist reviews. As it turns out his hypothyroidism went off kilter and affected his tolerance. 

They did both procedures at the same time and he was on the table for 60 minutes. Half way through they turned him from upside down to right side up. 

If you can be present at the exam it might help calm Cooper, especially if you are calm and assured. I tried to remain calm, especially when he was impatient about being held in place by 3 of us for so long! He fasted for this exam so he got some extra love and treats when he got home for being such a good boy.

We'll keep Cooper in our prayers until his examination. In the meantime try not to worry if you can. :crossfing


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## West (Jul 9, 2010)

Thank you a lot, Dallas Gold. They really didn't explain what it will be like, so I didn't know what to expect. I don't even know if he has to fast or if they will sedate him for the X-rays. I'll call the vet today to find that out.
Of course I'll be with him all along and try to be the calmest me ever  He strangely loves going to the vet (maybe due to the fact that they give him treats and pet him every time), but he's very active and cannot be quiet for a long time, so we'll have to work on that.
So, the only thing you have to do is check him every three months? No exercise restrictions or daily medication? That's not so bad! You've given me hope and clear info. Thanks again!


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

West said:


> Thank you a lot, Dallas Gold. They really didn't explain what it will be like, so I didn't know what to expect. I don't even know if he has to fast or if they will sedate him for the X-rays. I'll call the vet today to find that out.
> Of course I'll be with him all along and try to be the calmest me ever  He strangely loves going to the vet (maybe due to the fact that they give him treats and pet him every time), but he's very active and cannot be quiet for a long time, so we'll have to work on that.
> So, the only thing you have to do is check him every three months? No exercise restrictions or daily medication? That's not so bad! You've given me hope and clear info. Thanks again!


The 3 month rechecks and 6 month repeat echocardiograms is all right now, but I did do a thorough dietary makeover for him to eliminate as much salt from his diet as possible in hopes of helping the higher blood pressure readings. I cannot believe how much sodium dog food manufacturers put in dog food and treats. In addition the peanut butter I was formerly using had much too much sodium in it. We finally found an organic brand that is 100% peanuts with nothing else. Toby is a happy camper again! If his blood pressures continue to elevate or if his mitral valve issues worsen with time he will go on medication and probably have some exercise restrictions.

As far as current exercise, we already decided absolutely no ball chasing unless it is cold outside with very little humidity, and then it is limited to about 15 minutes with short rest breaks in between. At the slightest hint of exhaustion, it stops, protesting does not work. He walks every day, twice a day, for a cumulative total of 4 miles, unless he plays ball, then the evening walk is cancelled. Our Toby is almost 7, so he "should" be slowing down anyway.

We fasted Toby for his blood testing done the same day, as well as the abdominal sonogram. They wanted an empty stomach so they could visualize the organs better. Our Barkley had an emergency sonogram (hemangiosarcoma suspected) after he collapsed and in those cases they do not require a fast; however, he had not eaten that morning anyway due to the sudden collapse so early. He later had an echocardiogram and I cannot remember if he fasted for that one. My best recollection is yes. Our Toby had emergency x-rays for an eating indiscretion and they took them anyway, but they weren't as clear as they wanted. I guess they will want you to fast Cooper for the xrays, just in case they need to sedate if they cannot keep him absolutely still.

If you can be present at the echocardiogram procedure make sure that when they turn Cooper they do it very carefully and he doesn't squirm or fall off the table--that was one of my biggest concerns, especially with a big dog. Our vet has at least 3 trained staff to do this, and I stepped aside to give them room. The table our sonogram technician used was a padded folding contraption that elevates with a big hole in the middle for the probe, but it all looked flimsy to me at least. Our Barkley was scared of it, Toby did not react too much, though once he was placed on it his eyes got wide with surprise :uhoh:. I don't think it's too comfortable for them, especially since they place them strategically on it to work the probe the best for the abdominal sonograms. They are also exerting pressure on their undersides with the probe and it can get uncomfortable.

I hope these procedures will bring you some relief.


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