# Golden Stops Traffic at Target



## Megora

That is so stupid. :no:

I wish people would stop doing this with their dogs. If it's too hot for them to stay in the car, leave them at home.


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## Sosoprano

Wow! But, yes I would be nervous, too. He’s such a sweetheart, and anybody could scoop him into a truck and take off :uhoh: Maybe by now he’s such a celebrity that no one would dare


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## Jige

I think it is neat. We should be able to live in a world where we dont have to worry about eople stealing their dogs.


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## Megora

General V said:


> we dont have to worry about eople stealing their dogs.


That sad thing is that people feel they don't have to worry about anything unless something happens to change their mind. 

The fact is that leaving your dog outside a very busy building and equally busy parking lot and assuming that nobody will harass or steal your dog or remove the collar and set the dog free - it is bone-head stupid.


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## paula bedard

Guys, Dad was obviously filming this so he was there to stop anyone from absconding with the dog. I think it's great because it brings attention to Rescue dogs. Maybe someone will contact a Rescue and look into adoption....another dog saved.


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## Megora

paula bedard said:


> Guys, Dad was obviously filming this so he was there to stop anyone from absconding with the dog. I think it's great because it brings attention to Rescue dogs. Maybe someone will contact a Rescue and look into adoption....another dog saved.


Wait.... he put a cardboard sign on his dog "Dad told me to wait here, me waiting", in front of a store, and then stood off to the side to film? What, was he doing his own candid camera thingy?

The story brings attention to rescue dogs, I only know that because the media revealed that this dog was adopted. That's nice, but doesn't make much difference in the fact that this dog was sitting outside a store right there in the middle of things, people walking past, near the parking lot where cars are driving past, etc. Stories like this give the wrong message as far as what is responsible ownership.

I would hope nobody does anything like this without leaving a leash on the dog with the hand of a friend holding the opposite end of the leash.


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## mybuddy

What an awesome dog

What an awesome daddy!!

Thanks for sharing


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## Tennyson

While it's nice to see a well-trained dog........I just don't trust mankind anymore. Too many red flags go up when I saw that video.


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## Megora

Tennyson said:


> While it's nice to see a well-trained dog.........


And that's the fact... I know a lot of people who train their dogs to hold stays while they are out of sight. But that's not for leaving your dogs by the side of the curb while you are bumming inside of Target!


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## Capt Jack

I'd never leave Jack like that but I agree he was probably filming it with good intent & the dog obviously is thankfull for being rescued good boy!!


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## Megora

Capt Jack said:


> he was probably filming it with good intent


Again, why are people using this reasoning? 

The sign didn't say anything about the dog being adopted or anything to do with rescue. 

If the guy was standing off to the side filming (and I was under the impression watching a snippet of that video that it was a store camera) and thought it was just a funny video for whatever reason... I don't see how that ties into getting more people to adopt. Unless you are deliberately viewing this from the perspective that this was an _adopted_ dog left out on the curb while Daddy went inside to shop in Target. 

Would you guys have an opposite opinion of this if the dog were purchased from a breeder instead of a rescue?  

ETA - watched again and past the point I stopped watching in exasperation before, my theory is that it was filmed by the news crew doing the story.


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## GoldensGirl

General V said:


> ... We should be able to live in a world where we dont have to worry about eople stealing their dogs.


We should, but that's not the world I live in. In this part of the world, someone stabs horses that help disabled people... someone shoots Golden pups for fun... someone steals children from their parents... It isn't pleasant, but I have to protect my dogs from the real world.


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## Discoverer

Stabbing horses and shooting pups for fun - maybe it's the world we live in, but it IS NOT a real world! This is a world we humans created around us and now we are trying to protect the other creatures from this world. Apparently the dog from the video is not left unattended, as somebody films him. Do you think that dog's owner from the other planet and isn't aware of the _human world_ realities? I doubt it. This dog most likely would be dead by now if not rescued by his current owner and you call him stupid? Let me disagree with you. He's not only rescued the dog, he gave him a better life. Would I leave my dog on a busy street alone? Definitely not! But I would never call stupid anybody who would. You made your conclusion too fast. _
Don't judge, and you won't be judged. Don't condemn, and you won't be condemned. Set free, and you will be set free.
_Cannot say any better.


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## Megora

I'll say it again.

People who leave their dogs tied up or in a stay on the curb while cars drive past are stupid. 

I appreciate people adopting dogs, but doing so does not give them the green light to put those dogs in danger by careless and irresponsible ownership.

It could be that this was a publicity stunt and this guy only left his dog outside of TARGET (while he went in to shop), where people and cars are passing by closely, only because a news crew was staying out there and keeping an eye on the dog.

But that was not how the story was presented. 

And for all I know this guy makes a habit of leaving his dog outside of a busy TARGET store and that's why this attracted the attention of that news crew to come out and film the dog staying out there. 

I know of rescue people who would be freaking out about a rescued dog being put in a stay outside of a busy store while cars and people zip around said dog, while the owner went shopping inside for who knows what was so important that he had to go inside the store and leave his dog in a stay outside.


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## Deb_Bayne

Wow, all the negativity about this video. 

At the end he stated he was training him in every scenario to get the dog to obey commands with every distraction possible and I loved that this video teaches us that it's possible to train a 3 year old rescue (he did it in 1 month). I didn't see anywhere that he leaves the dog by himself without any supervision.


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## Megora

Deb_Bayne said:


> I didn't see anywhere that he leaves the dog by himself without any supervision.


Did you see any emphasis from the video or statement from the owner that he always left the dog _with_ supervision?


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## MercyMom

Awww! What a sweet dog!


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## Shalva

Megora said:


> That is so stupid. :no:
> 
> I wish people would stop doing this with their dogs. If it's too hot for them to stay in the car, leave them at home.


it doens't look like he left him.... or that he shopped, he had no bags when he left... it looks like he was proofing a stay.... I have been known to do exactly the same thing (minus the sign) outside the grocery store.... I have also been known to put my dogs in the center of the main street sidewalk at lunch time in a sit stay with people walking by with ice cream and hotdogs and patting on the head... its how you proof a dog... 

I would bet he was standing in the lobby of that target... the whole point of the video was that any dog can be trained with the right trainer and motivation regardless of whether they are a puppy or a rescue... the focus was about training with distractions - not about target....


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## lgnutah

I know this sounds like "the good old days" but 50 years ago it was very common (where I grew up in southern California) for people to walk with their dog to a store and then tie the leash to something outside the store while they went in. In all of my childhood, I don't remember a single report of a dog being stolen or anyone considering it to be a possibility.
Of course, we didn't have 24/7 news reporting so possibly it did happen and I never heard about it.


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## mybuddy

Shalva said:


> it doens't look like he left him.... or that he shopped, he had no bags when he left... it looks like he was proofing a stay.... I have been known to do exactly the same thing (minus the sign) outside the grocery store.... I have also been known to put my dogs in the center of the main street sidewalk at lunch time in a sit stay with people walking by with ice cream and hotdogs and patting on the head... its how you proof a dog...
> 
> I would bet he was standing in the lobby of that target...


It is amazing that your dog can do that!! I can only dream....Buddy would never do that, esp. if there were hotdogs involved :doh:

Off topic but reminds me of my Grandfather's dog. Mom bought him for a dollar when she was a kid. He was furious!!!! Anyway, long story short..."Scamp" ended up being *his* dog.

He was a police officer in town and everyone knew Scamp. He would sit on the side of the road and wait for my grandfather to pick him up and drive him home.

Poor Scamp had a hard time staying anywhere my grandfather was not. My grandfather would be directing traffic and look down and there would be Scamp, sitting beside him looking up. Sometimes he would have to put him in a taxi and send him home.

Ahhhh, Scamp :--heart:


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## Jackson's Mom

mybuddy said:


> Off topic but reminds me of my Grandfather's dog. Mom bought him for a dollar when she was a kid. He was furious!!!! Anyway, long story short..."Scamp" ended up being *his* dog.
> 
> He was a police officer in town and everyone knew Scamp. He would sit on the side of the road and wait for my grandfather to pick him up and drive him home.
> 
> Poor Scamp had a hard time staying anywhere my grandfather was not. My grandfather would be directing traffic and look down and there would be Scamp, sitting beside him looking up. Sometimes he would have to put him in a taxi and send him home.
> 
> Ahhhh, Scamp :--heart:


Such a cute story!!


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## Megora

Shalva said:


> it doens't look like he left him.... or that he shopped, he had no bags when he left... it looks like he was proofing a stay.... I have been known to do exactly the same thing (minus the sign) outside the grocery store.... I have also been known to put my dogs in the center of the main street sidewalk at lunch time in a sit stay with people walking by with ice cream and hotdogs and patting on the head... its how you proof a dog...


Shalva.... are you actually OK with your puppy people putting the dogs in a stay outside a store, with cars passing and people passing by all around the dog, while the owners go inside leaving the dog outside in a stay with a cardboard sign hung around his neck? 

There is a huge difference between proofing stays on the sidewalks outside of stores (I do it all the time for obedience) with you within a few feet of your dog, or somebody else within a few feet of your dog, and putting the dog in a stay outside a big store and within a few feet of a busy parking lot while you go inside the store. 

When you train in public, you should be making sure you are not putting your dog in any danger while proofing your dog. 

Of course that dog had a great stay, but what if he didn't? 

And furthermore, there are dogs with great stays who flake out when things happen. Even if that guy was standing inside the glass doors watching his dog, how fast would he have been able to get out past the doors if the dog spooked, broke his stay, and went running out in front of a car? 

Stays are a pretty touchy issue with some people in competition obedience, even your top trainers - precisely because we are dealing with animals who can be unpredictable sometimes, regardless of how well trained they are. 

So would you as a breeder support somebody taking risks like this just for show if this was a dog from your kennel?


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## mybuddy

Jackson's Mom said:


> Such a cute story!!


 
Thanks. He would also show up at the Convent where Mom went to school. Scamp would just walk in the classroom and plunk his butt down by Mom's desk. She would be so embarrassed! My GF was the chief of Police so noone made a big deal of it. The nuns would force a smile and say "OK...Scamp...I think you have to home now...."


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## Shalva

Megora said:


> Shalva.... are you actually OK with your puppy people putting the dogs in a stay outside a store, with cars passing and people passing by all around the dog, while the owners go inside leaving the dog outside in a stay with a cardboard sign hung around his neck?
> 
> There is a huge difference between proofing stays on the sidewalks outside of stores (I do it all the time for obedience) with you within a few feet of your dog, or somebody else within a few feet of your dog, and putting the dog in a stay outside a big store and within a few feet of a busy parking lot while you go inside the store.
> 
> When you train in public, you should be making sure you are not putting your dog in any danger while proofing your dog.
> 
> Of course that dog had a great stay, but what if he didn't?
> 
> And furthermore, there are dogs with great stays who flake out when things happen. Even if that guy was standing inside the glass doors watching his dog, how fast would he have been able to get out past the doors if the dog spooked, broke his stay, and went running out in front of a car?
> 
> Stays are a pretty touchy issue with some people in competition obedience, even your top trainers - precisely because we are dealing with animals who can be unpredictable sometimes, regardless of how well trained they are.
> 
> So would you as a breeder support somebody taking risks like this just for show if this was a dog from your kennel?



the owner of this dog made it VERY clear that he does not take the dog until they are ready... and YES I do encourage those who are working on competition and such to take their dogs to public places. it seems pretty obvious that this guy has spent alot of time working with this dog and also made it clear that he made sure the dog was ready... 

I DO competition obedience I know the conversations that happen. 

I would be making an assumption here (as are you) but I would guess he started slow... with standing there...and then standing a few feet away... and then if I had to guess he was standing inside the lobby watching the situation and the dog... 

The problem as with anything is that people have to exercise common sense AND be sure of their dog... but that goes true of anything ... allowing dogs off leash in the park or using a flexi or doing anything with your dog. 

I honestly would not be at all upset if I had a puppy person who had trained their dog to this level and worked to the level that this man has worked to... shoot I wish more puppy people would train to this level. If they did, dogs would be allowed in alot more places. 

This dog is a GREAT ambassador for dogs in general and is showing people that a dog can be trained. 

you say "THAT dog had a great stay but what if he didn't" .... thats kind of a silly question isn't it... we can only address individual situations... if he didn't then the person would be an idiot for doing this... BUT THAT dog does have a great stay and this is a great exercise for proofing... but this question is like saying that when I take my dogs to a field and let them run off leash.... that they shouldn't run off leash because what if they don't have a great recall??? but they do! 

I think the take away from this video is that even rescue dogs with consistent training can be taught to be well behaved great dogs... and if it motivates more people to learn to train their dogs then great.... it isn't magic it is consistent training. 

I really do think that you are making mountains out of molehills. 

Like I said I can put Shalva in the middle of main street at lunchtime wiht people walking by and she will not budge... but I was pretty darned sure she wouldn't budge before we started working on that....


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## Megora

Shalva said:


> I honestly would not be at all upset if I had a puppy person who had trained their dog to this level and worked to the level that this man has worked to...


So, you are OK with your puppy people putting their dogs in stays outside of grocery stores with cardboard signs hanging around their necks while the owner goes inside the store. 

Okay then. 



> This dog is a GREAT ambassador for dogs in general and is showing people that a dog can be trained.


Or, he's showing people that you can leave dogs outside of stores while the owner goes inside. That that is a goal in training. Or something. :uhoh:



> you say "THAT dog had a great stay but what if he didn't" .... thats kind of a silly question isn't it... we can only address individual situations... if he didn't then the person would be an idiot for doing this... BUT THAT dog does have a great stay and this is a great exercise for proofing... but this question is like saying that when I take my dogs to a field and let them run off leash.... that they shouldn't run off leash because what if they don't have a great recall??? but they do!


Shalva, you are comparing apples to oranges. 

I'm asking if you would be OK with somebody putting a dog in a stay or tying the dog up outside of a busy store, a few feet away from a busy parking lot, while they go inside the store. 

Letting your dog loose in a field is vastly different, particularly since there will be limited danger to a dog if the dog doesn't come or breaks a stay. Or I'm assuming you aren't talking about a field next to a busy highway. 



> I think the take away from this video is that even rescue dogs with consistent training can be taught to be well behaved great dogs... and if it motivates more people to learn to train their dogs then great.... it isn't magic it is consistent training.


But train their dogs to... what point? 

Putting them in stays outside of stores, while the owner goes inside and leaves the dog out there to fend for itself.



> I really do think that you are making mountains out of molehills.


No. I'm trying to be consistant in what I view as neglectful and reckless. Whether a dog is trained or not, adopted or bought, whatever... I don't want that dog left out on a busy curb near a busy parking lot while the owner goes inside to shop at Target. 

Why wait for something bad to happen before criticizing somebody who is taking risks? 



> Like I said I can put Shalva in the middle of main street at lunchtime wiht people walking by and she will not budge...


You put your dog in stays in the middle of a road with cars going past?  _Really_? 

Are you going inside stores while you do that?


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## Wyatt's mommy

Love it! Great video!


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## JDK

Lets see a squirrel run in front of him or a pigeon walk across his path.

I look at this guy as an irresponsible owner. Sure, it's cool he can get his dog to sit and stay there as random strangers walk up and pet him and take pictures, but guess what, not everybody in the world likes dogs and some people are scared to death of them. How do you know all those people aren't scared of dogs? You don't, and for that reason and that reason alone, I say this guy is an irresponsible dog owner cause he's creating a situation that could very well make some people feel uneasy, and he's going out of his way to do so. If I was the manager at Target, I'd tell him to leave and that he and the dog is loitering. In fact, isn't there a sign outside most Targets that say "No Parking or Standing"


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## Shalva

Megora said:


> S
> Are you going inside stores while you do that?


Oh honestly this is ridiculous

You don't know where he was.... 

he didn't come out wiht any bags, so he wasn't shopping.. my guess .... is he was standing inside the vestibule watching the whole thing....

molehills really.... 

and no it is exactly the same thing


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## Megora

And you know what? Something else that bothers me is the fact that in most places if you leave your dog OFF LEASH in a public place, you can be ticketed. 

This happens with trainers who are training their dogs and obviously have obedient animals. 

Why wasn't this guy ticketed?


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## Megora

Shalva said:


> Oh honestly this is ridiculous
> ....
> 
> and no it is exactly the same thing


Shalva, I asked if you would be OK if your puppy owners left their dogs sitting on a curb outside of a store a few feet away from a busy parking lot, and you compared it to putting your dog in the middle of a street or letting your dogs run around a field. 

I do have to wonder about your common sense in practicing stays in the middle of what I have to assume is a busy street while you go inside stores - *coughs*



> he didn't come out wiht any bags, so he wasn't shopping.. my guess .... is he was standing inside the vestibule watching the whole thing....


And if he was inside the doors, what would he have done if the dog broke the stay and ran out in front of a car. Would he have been able to catch his dog before impact? Would you still admire this guy as a great ambassador? 

As you say you compete in obedience, you know that the best trained obedience dogs break their stays. A dog is not entered in shows unless their stays have been proofed with every possible distraction that the owner can think of. And still these dogs sometimes surprise their owners. 

I imagine it would be the case with a golden retriever who has been trained and owned by this guy for only a month before the guy started putting him in stays, with a cardboard sign around his neck, right outside a big store and next to a busy parking lot with cars going past.


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## Shalva

Megora said:


> Shalva, I asked if you would be OK if your puppy owners left their dogs sitting on a curb outside of a store a few feet away from a busy parking lot, and you compared it to putting your dog in the middle of a street or letting your dogs run around a field.
> 
> I do have to wonder about your common sense in practicing stays in the middle of what I have to assume is a busy street while you go inside stores - *coughs*


THAT is not what I said, you know it... so you can twist my words as much as you want... I am done with this conversation....


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## MercyMom

Shalva said:


> the owner of this dog made it VERY clear that he does not take the dog until they are ready... and YES I do encourage those who are working on competition and such to take their dogs to public places. it seems pretty obvious that this guy has spent alot of time working with this dog and also made it clear that he made sure the dog was ready...
> 
> I DO competition obedience I know the conversations that happen.
> 
> I would be making an assumption here (as are you) but I would guess he started slow... with standing there...and then standing a few feet away... and then if I had to guess he was standing inside the lobby watching the situation and the dog...
> 
> The problem as with anything is that people have to exercise common sense AND be sure of their dog... but that goes true of anything ... allowing dogs off leash in the park or using a flexi or doing anything with your dog.
> 
> I honestly would not be at all upset if I had a puppy person who had trained their dog to this level and worked to the level that this man has worked to... shoot I wish more puppy people would train to this level. If they did, dogs would be allowed in alot more places.
> 
> This dog is a GREAT ambassador for dogs in general and is showing people that a dog can be trained.
> 
> you say "THAT dog had a great stay but what if he didn't" .... thats kind of a silly question isn't it... we can only address individual situations... if he didn't then the person would be an idiot for doing this... BUT THAT dog does have a great stay and this is a great exercise for proofing... but this question is like saying that when I take my dogs to a field and let them run off leash.... that they shouldn't run off leash because what if they don't have a great recall??? but they do!
> 
> I think the take away from this video is that even rescue dogs with consistent training can be taught to be well behaved great dogs... and if it motivates more people to learn to train their dogs then great.... it isn't magic it is consistent training.
> 
> I really do think that you are making mountains out of molehills.
> 
> Like I said I can put Shalva in the middle of main street at lunchtime wiht people walking by and she will not budge... but I was pretty darned sure she wouldn't budge before we started working on that....


 By watching that video, I was convicted and inspired to step it up a notch with training Mercy.


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## Megora

Shalva said:


> ... so you can twist my words as much as you want...


You said you put your dog in stays in the middle of main street. 

And in connection with this story, I only assume that means you are leaving her there in the middle of the street (with cars going past) while you go inside of a store like Target. 

I know that's not what you said, but you used that example in connection with somebody leaving their dog on the curb next to a busy parking lot while they put a glass door and a few seconds of reaction time between them and their dog. 

This is not responsible training. There are safer ways to proof stays. And you do not have to put your dog in any kind of danger just to show off that dog's training progress. Especially after only a month of owning that dog. Training is a long term and never ending thing.

Shalva, I'm not trying to "troll you" here. You are somebody I see as a very responsible and caring breeder - who cares what happens to her dogs. I admire you for what you are doing with beautiful Bing - the fact that you are going above and beyond like that proves you care what happens to the dogs you breed. 

I just can't see you doing something like this - even if your dog's stay was rock solid. 

I just can't see you supporting somebody doing something this reckless with one of your dogs. 

I totally understand people being impressed by this story, especially as this golden retriever was adopted a short time before the guy put him in that stay with a cardboard sign around his neck. 

I think this story says a lot about this breed that we love. I'm sure people are going home and wanting to adopt or buy a golden retriever after seeing that dog. And hopefully not thinking that it will only take a month to have a dog just like that one. 

I simply hope that it is clear that training does not mean putting your dog in danger. And I would hope that nobody who loves this breed would ever encourage people to train their dogs to stay, tied up or not, outside of stores or restaurants while the owners indulge inside. That is a selfish kind of ownership that I hope we would not be encouraging, even if it is just an "appearance" of being that kind of owner.


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## mybuddy

You can find controversy in anything if you dig deep enough. :doh:


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