# Ella's Obedience Training for Field Work



## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

I've missed a bit of time because I've been fighting off this stupid cold that I just can't quite seem to shake, but we were back at it today. Ella is still real hit or miss with her heeling. Sometimes she does fine and sometimes she keeps trying to go out in front. She also keeps sitting a bit too far forward, so I've been working on that.

I did find a choke collar in a local store. One size seems to small and the next seems a little too big. I ended up getting the bigger one because the smaller one didn't even have a half an inch length once it's around her neck. But I'm having a problem keeping the collar in the proper place. It keeps sliding too far down her neck instead of staying right behind her ears. I don't know if that's normal, if its the collar, or if it's something that I'm doing wrong.

Ella did well on our homework today. It's like something seemed to click and she seemed to understand that she was supposed to stay in place. The homework is to walk with her at a heel, put her in a sit, then go out a distance with the line attached, hands near chest with the line, facing her, and then walk in a complete circle around her. Ella is supposed to stay in place in her sit while I circle around her. We started out at four feet and we're supposed to contact the trainer when our homework is completed when we reach twenty feet.

Because we hadn't trained in a couple of days I just started out at six feet. I increased the distance by about one foot with each successful circle. The way the trainer has us doing it is that if we have two unsuccessful attempts to go back to the previous length. If unsuccessful I go back to her, don't say anything (like no or uh uh), and put her right back into the sit at the same spot for the next try. Today I only had to reset her once on the very first attempt. After that it seemed to click. The only other time I had to reset her was when she saw a cat down the street. We made it up to sixteen feet. Hopefully we'll be able to complete the twenty feet pretty soon.


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## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

Ella was a little more inconsistent today but we started off at a greater distance and we made it to the twenty foot mark! Yay! She did it a couple of times in our morning training session. Now if I can just get her to heel properly. That wasn't any better today. She's still trying to walk out in front of me. I don't think she understands where I want her yet, but I know she'll get it.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Try a heeling stick. Tap her chest if she starts to forge ahead.


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## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

We had our second lesson yesterday. Ella passed her homework on the first time with sitting at the end of the 20' line while I circle her without her getting up. For heeling I need to make an adjustment with the corrections I'm giving her. I need to give them more of a pop because I've been too gentle, only guiding her with my little tugs and more of annoying her than anything else. The trainer said that with her, she's the type who is not going to want to receive the correction so she'll catch on pretty quick. Ella has also figured out that she is supposed to sit for the whistle, but we don't have the full consistency with that yet. He had me put her in a heel and then whistle for sit but with me I kept walking. He wanted to make sure that she wasn't sitting down just because I stopped walking. She did it perfectly and sat when I blew the whistle while I kept walking to the end of the line.

Our next homework assignment, besides continuing to work on the same things, is recall. I put her in the sit from the heel and go to the end of the line. He said to sometimes circle her and sometimes not. He said to give her the "Come" command, which I've been using, and give a tug on the line at the same time. Then do the whistle command for it as I pull her in. Once she starts coming in on her own, then put my hand in the hand signal for it. Once she understands the whistle command, the trainer wants me to use the whistle to put her in a sit when she is coming towards me. He wants me to keep it random so she doesn't anticipate the command. He also said with the commands to make sure that it is something that I can correct if she doesn't do it. So if I whistle for her to sit and she is 10' away from me, I've got to be able to get to her to give her the correction if she doesn't sit. Same with the recall, if she doesn't come at the recall I've got to be able to pull her in to me.

The trainer said we are also about ready to start the collar conditioning. He told me to go ahead and get the e-collar. He said to put it on her, not turning it on, and do fun things with her so from the beginning she will associate the collar with positive experiences.

During our training session yesterday, she also did better with retrieving the bumper. He said that he can see the retriever instinct in her but we just have to draw it out. I've also got to try to get her interested in getting a bird. One other time I tried with the duck wing attached to a bumper. She goes for it and picked it up, but didn't return it. Which isn't unusual for her retrieving outside. Yesterday afternoon I tried taping the wing to the bumper again. She went for the bumper, but then she just sniffed it and didn't pick it up. I don't know if she was just tired, didn't like the duct tape, the wing or what. There was more duct tape then last time because I had to tape the end of the bumper where she put a hole in it and it was leaking sand. I'm open to suggestions to getting her interested in the wings. I want to give it another try before emailing the trainer.

Yesterdays session was fun and it looked like Ella enjoyed it. She was pooped when we got home.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Look at Bill Hillmann's YouTube videos. He's got some very nice ones that work with young goldens creating drive and desire while making the whole experience fun for the pup and you. He focused the videos on show dogs that might have less interest than a field dog. I think it's a series of 4 videos. I think he did a nice job. 

For e-collar stuff, I was told the same thing. I put the collar on whenever we went for a walk, obedience classes, eating dinner, etc. You don't want to associate the collar with work. It should mean fun.


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## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

I'll have to check those videos out when I get a chance. I know she has at least some natural drive and interest because y can see bits and pieces of it (if that makes sense). She add the trainer saw yesterday Ella definitely has an interest in live birds. Any time he was explaining something to me she was very focused on the birds in the trees making noise and flying around. 

I was hoping to get the e-collar locally but I'm not sure where they would have them in Connecticut. My best guess is Cabela's but I don't know if they carry them in the store. I was going to try calling them. Otherwise I'm not sure where to look other than ordering online.


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

Order your e-collar. Finding a store that carries is difficult, and you might pay a better price online. Did your trainer make collar suggestions? There are a lot out there. I got the Tritronics Pro 500 which is more than I will ever need but it can grow with me. Tri Tronics has since been bought by Garmin. I don't know what is what now. Also check out The Collar Clinic for new or refurbished collars. 

As for obedience. It's an ongoing practice. Don't get too worried she's not in perfect heel position. It will improve as she matures. Gabby too doesn't like correction and got really good at doing what is asked for the most part. However she still gets amped heeling to the line. She stays in vacinity but not dedicated to my side. She knows if I stop she best return to heel. So I do stop to keep her with me. So far at tests, the line isn't too far away and I've managed just fine. 

Enjoy the journey.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

ktkins7,
Just wait until you walk to the line with your dog for the first time or the 10th time. They go crazy once they figure out the game. My dogs can be just fine in an obedience ring. But take them in the field when they know they might get a bird, all their training goes out with the wind. My mellow old Reilly is sweet as can be. Going to the line, he's a jumping zooming jaw popping crazy man. Back in the obedience ring he's a sweet obedient boy. Its amazing how it seems like it couldn't be the same dog!

Have fun! Enjoy the process. Don't rush. Don't get frustrated. Sometimes it will be 1 step forward, 2 steps backward. Every day is a new day. Make sure you are both having fun.


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

Hey instead of using duct tape to put the wing on the bumper try a zip tie. It works better and shows more wing. I had to work hard for my dogs to eagerly fetch a bird. one still doesn't like it but will do it (if she feels like it) but the other one is now going after live birds with enthusiasm. It just takes time with some dogs.


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## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

That's a good idea with the zip tie. I'm going to give that a try. For now with the retrieving I think I'm going to take a step back and follow the Bill Hillmann videos that Alaska7133 suggested for building her drive and desire. She does great retrieving inside, but outside she still gets distracted. So I'll go from the start of those outside to try to get her excited about it and work the way up to the bumper with the wing attached.

One thing that has been an annoyance is finding an open space to train with Ella. My yard is an okay size, but she is still a bit reluctant to go in the yard while she is getting used to the invisible fence. She is better than she was, but because I want training to be positive I've been trying to find another area. Any open field area I know of in my area is mostly athletic fields, which don't allow dogs. The two local state parks require dogs to be on leads no longer than six feet. And I don't really want to have to resort to the dog park, even if we do have the place to ourselves.

I ended up ordering the e-collar yesterday. I got the Garmin Delta Sport as recommended by the trainer. I asked him about the length of the prongs, and he said that with the fur on her neck area it shouldn't be a problem. He also said he preferred the shorter prongs in case something happens that can push the prongs into her neck (like the collar getting caught on something).

So far I've been doing well with not getting frustrated. If anything it is more with myself than Ella because I feel that if she isn't doing something correctly, at this point its most likely because of something I'm doing wrong or not communicating properly to her. I don't know who is getting trained more at the moment, me or Ella  Even then any frustration is rare. I also haven't tried to jump out ahead at all, even though I can't wait to be able to get her off leash so she can run around more. But I'm pretty much taking the attitude that we will get it with practice.


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## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

So today's training issue was when working on recall, she comes running towards me right away, but doesn't come to a stop in front of me. She normally goes towards one side and tries to go right past me. Not sure what that is all about and I'm not sure how to correct it. She is running in faster than I can pull the leash in, so I can't really just stop her by the leash. Her heeling was better today now that I'm doing the corrections correctly.

I did try the first session of the Bill Hillmann videos and Ella had an absolute blast. So we're going to continue working on that.


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

does your trainer want her to stop in front of you? 
When I was training obedience for my pro he wanted me to have the dogs on a lead and have them facing me at a sit about five feet ahead of me. Then I would say, here, here, and reel them into a heel position. So they did go past me and then turn around into a sit on my left side. I kind of pulled them into the right position while they were learning. This was a separate training situation than the marks. So the dogs didn't retrieve or have anything in their mouths.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Back up to the 6 foot lead and get a nice consistent front finish. Then start to stretch it out with the long line. (Annie, my 6 month old, was doing the same steps last week.)
Try adding a different command for the front finish when you're looking for that position. Annie was doing the same thing as Ellie until I took a half hour and taught her "Front", and did a few drills on it on leash. Then we went back to working on recall at a distance. Now as she makes her approach I just tell her "Front" and she stops nicely in front.


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

Alaska7133 said:


> ktkins7,
> Just wait until you walk to the line with your dog for the first time or the 10th time. They go crazy once they figure out the game. My dogs can be just fine in an obedience ring. But take them in the field when they know they might get a bird, all their training goes out with the wind. My mellow old Reilly is sweet as can be. Going to the line, he's a jumping zooming jaw popping crazy man. Back in the obedience ring he's a sweet obedient boy. Its amazing how it seems like it couldn't be the same dog!
> 
> Have fun! Enjoy the process. Don't rush. Don't get frustrated. Sometimes it will be 1 step forward, 2 steps backward. Every day is a new day. Make sure you are both having fun.


LOL! That's the kind of spirit that they should all have. 

And that last paragraph should be pasted on every trainer's dashboard, so we can remember it after a hard day.


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## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

The trainer wants her to come and then go into a sit right in front of me. Once she understands the recall, he wants me to have her sit on command part way to me, then continue the rest of the way. I'll try the shorter line tomorrow. Now if she doesn't go to the right place should I just guide her there without a correction? I'm thinking if I do give a correction she may think it's for coming rather than going to the wrong place.

And I hope Ella enjoys it like Reilly. Just got to bring the retriever out in her and get her interested in birds. She sure had fun today though.


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## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

I received the e-collar last night and charged the collar and the handheld piece overnight. I was going to test it today to make sure that it works. As instructed by the trainer, I put the collar on Ella when I took her for a walk around the block this morning and gave her her breakfast.

I do have a question about the collar itself. She is a petite girl and when I put the collar on her there is at least six inches of extra length on the collar. Does it matter if I leave it that length or if I cut it shorter so she doesn't have a long piece flapping around?


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

I made a small cut towards the end and then used that notch to make it connect to the buckle so that it made a loop with the excess. I'm not sure if that makes sense the way I describe it. Also, the longer length can be used like a training tab.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

MillionsofPeaches said:


> Also, the longer length can be used like a training tab.


Oooooh don't do that. 

If you do that and the dog pulls just a little bit, the buckle tang can be pulled out of the hole in the strap and become free. Many an Ecollar have found their way to the bottom of the training pond that way.


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

oh thanks, never thought of that.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

I always left mine hang. I often thought about cutting it but never did.


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## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

Today I found a new place to train Ella that's less than 10 minutes away by car. They recently opened up a new area that used to be an airport. They've turned into soccer/field hockey fields with a large trail going around the perimeter. Unlike all of the other fields that around here they allow dogs. Or at least I assume they do because they supply poopy bags and there aren't any signs anywhere saying no dogs. But it's nice because it's huge and wide open. There weren't any people when we got there, but while we were training a lady came to walk her dog around the trail and a guy brought his two kids to play soccer.

The main problem we had today, which I think was do to the new training location, was Ella kept getting distracted. We've been training in my neighborhood which she has been around every single day. This is a new environment. Not only did other people come, but there was also one of her favorite things, blowing leaves. In a way I think this could be kind of good in the long run because she is still going to have to do what I tell her to do no matter what the distractions are. It just makes training take a little longer.

For today, it seems like Ella understands when she hears the whistle command she is supposed to come towards me, but she is still trying to go to my side and past me. The trainer said to step towards her when she is coming, but so far that hasn't seemed to make a real difference. I tried shortening the line and that did help, but it's definitely still work in progress. We were successful in getting her to sit when gave her the whistle half way back to me. It's hit or miss, but at least I know she understands it. For heeling she did terrible at first, but then she seemed to settle in after a couple of corrections.

I've followed those Bill Hillmann videos and they have definitely appeared to help. I haven't tried with the wing yet, but today she was definitely obsessed with the bumper. It's one of her new ones. It's a rubber one like the trainer uses but smaller (I've got to get a bigger one). We do have one the same size the trainer uses that's a canvas one and she retrieves that one without an issue. The field was perfect for retrieving because I could heave the bumper and come nowhere near to the edge of the field. We've only been doing 5-6 retrieves at once outside. The trainer said he wants to always leave Ella wanting more. That was definitely true today because she kept circling and occasionally tried to jump for the bumper while we were walking to the car.

I did have to exchange the e-collar because it was broken. You couldn't change the correction setting on it. It was a constant vibration at the same intensity whether it was set on 1 or 18. I ordered it on Amazon so they're really good with returns. I should receive the replacement today or tomorrow.

That's it for today.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Sounds like you are both having fun!


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## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

Definitely. The only not so fun part was the cold today. It was under 30 and pretty windy. I'm going to have to find better gloves for handling the long line. The ones I used today were too slipperly and I had a hard time getting a grip on the rope.

The other weird thing Ella was doing today, which I'm assuming because of distractions, is that when I did get her in front of me for the recall and did the sit whistle she would sit, but then she was rotating on her butt in circles and would finish facing away from me. This was a new thing today, so I was going to wait and see if it continues.


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## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

Ella was having focusing issues today. She was more interested in the world around her. Leaves, traffic, people... So we cut the training session short. Ten minutes top. During those ten minutes she was still doing a bit of the going off to the side on recall, but I was able to control it a little better. When she did her sit in front of me she kept facing away from me instead of facing towards me. The one time I tried to get her to sit in the middle of the recall yesterday she actually did it without a problem. That did not happen today. Either she would slow down and go another 3-5 steps then sit or completely ignore the whistle to sit. And the little brat quickly figured out if she ignored it and I started towards _then_ she would do her sit before I could give her the correction and put her in the right place.

Not wanting to end a not so good training session on a sour note, we did some retrieving afterwards. When it's just the bumper she is now doing awesome with the retrieve. Not always bringing it directly back but the trainer said don't worry about that yet, just work on getting her excited about retrieving. She does bring it back most of the time. She also has a tendency to want to chew on the bumper, but I'm not going to worry about that until our next lesson.

I did try putting one of the duck wings on the bumper. She was still excited and raced out for it, but the wing seems to be confusing her. Ella is definitely interested in it, but she doesn't seem to know what to do with it. She'll sniff and I saw her lick it once or twice, but she won't pick it up. Even when I threw it a few times and she knew the wing was on it she did the same exact thing, race after it and sniff. At home she has taken to sniffing around in the garage where I've been keeping the wings (out of her reach). So she is definitely interested but I don't know how to get her to pick up the wing  I'm open to suggestions before I contact the trainer.

I did go back to the plain bumper to finish up so we did have fun at least.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Just like the bumper, more exposure, you act excited with it, you let her take it out of your hand first, tease her with it. Also let her see the trainers dogs pick it up and make her jealous for not having one of her own. 

I also use canvas bumpers and got duck scent and put on them, thus they get used to the scent from the bumper. It is easier and cleaner with the dockens as you can wash them better than the canvas bumpers. 

I never did much with the wings, I opted to go with a smaller ducks and just practice with them.


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## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

So Ella and I have run into a bit of a wall with our recall. I don't know if I did something wrong if she isn't understanding something because we seem to have gone a little backwards the last couple of days. Before, I would give the whistle signal and give a tug on the long line at the same time, say come (which we had previously trained with) and she would come running towards me. She kept going off to the side instead of to me, so the trainer said to step towards her. That does seem to have helped with having her in front of me instead of going past me.

I dropped the word come after a while and it didn't seem to do any damage at first. But all of the sudden it's like I'm back to square one. If I don't tug the line at all she just sits there. When she starts coming she takes her sweet old time. Won't listen to the whistle signal to sit on her way at all. She is coming to me, but when she sits she doesn't face me.

I tried changing training locations and it doesn't make a difference. I praise her like crazy when she gets to me but haven't been using any treats. I don't understand it because she was doing so well and I don't know what happened. I tried going back to using the word come and now it doesn't make a difference. I don't know if I should keep doing the same thing or change something. Should I try it with a high value treat as a reward? I haven't used treats when training for a couple of months. The trainer is on vacation this week so I won't be able to get a hold of him until next week.

On a positive note, I think I'm getting her obsessed with the bumpers. Haven'But she is definitely going bumper crazy, which I feel is a step forward.


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

ktkins7 said:


> So Ella and I have run into a bit of a wall with our recall. I don't know if I did something wrong if she isn't understanding something because we seem to have gone a little backwards the last couple of days. Before, I would give the whistle signal and give a tug on the long line at the same time, say come (which we had previously trained with) and she would come running towards me. She kept going off to the side instead of to me, so the trainer said to step towards her. That does seem to have helped with having her in front of me instead of going past me.
> 
> I dropped the word come after a while and it didn't seem to do any damage at first. But all of the sudden it's like I'm back to square one. If I don't tug the line at all she just sits there. When she starts coming she takes her sweet old time. Won't listen to the whistle signal to sit on her way at all. She is coming to me, but when she sits she doesn't face me.
> ---
> On a positive note, I think I'm getting her obsessed with the bumpers. But she is definitely going bumper crazy, which I feel is a step forward.


Hmmm, it sounds like it's time to back up a bit. 

[NOTE: This is just my opinion and is what I would do in your situation ... I am an amateur, so give it whatever value you dare....] 

The most important part of what you are training on is the recall, i.e., "get back to me when I call you ... NOW!" So, I'd go back and simply work on "come," with the preceding whistle. I'd stop taking the step forward, since that may be misinterpreted by her ... she may think that she's done something wrong; in fact, if I took a step, it would be away from her.
I also wouldn't worry about her going off to the side of you instead of in front ... you have the leash, so you can control where she ends up. (BTW, why do you want her to end up in front of you?)
Also, forget about the whistle sit on the way back in ... she's got to get "come" down pat before making her stop on the way in.
As for a reward, forget the treats, give her a bumper when she comes in properly.
She'll get back on track!

FTGoldens


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## CarmenK (Dec 27, 2010)

ktkins7 said:


> The trainer is on vacation this week so I won't be able to get a hold of him until next week.


I think he is back this week. I'd contact him.


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## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

CarmenK said:


> I think he is back this week. I'd contact him.


Thanks. I'll send him an email once I get to my computer. Too much of a pain from my phone.

Do you do any of the group field classes with him?


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## CarmenK (Dec 27, 2010)

ktkins7 said:


> Thanks. I'll send him an email once I get to my computer. Too much of a pain from my phone.
> 
> Do you do any of the group field classes with him?


Yes, I do. 

OT: I wanted to send you a PM earlier today but I don't have enough posts yet. I live in Old Lyme, CT. Our one-year old Rocket is at a similar training level as Ella. I started T-work with Rocket which comes later on in the yard program.

There is another person from Clinton, CT with two Flat Coats. Sometimes we train as a private group together in North Madison or Middlefield.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

ktkins7 said:


> So Ella and I have run into a bit of a wall with our recall. I don't know if I did something wrong if she isn't understanding something because we seem to have gone a little backwards the last couple of days. Before, I would give the whistle signal and give a tug on the long line at the same time, say come (which we had previously trained with) and she would come running towards me. She kept going off to the side instead of to me, so the trainer said to step towards her. That does seem to have helped with having her in front of me instead of going past me.
> 
> I dropped the word come after a while and it didn't seem to do any damage at first. But all of the sudden it's like I'm back to square one. If I don't tug the line at all she just sits there. When she starts coming she takes her sweet old time. Won't listen to the whistle signal to sit on her way at all. She is coming to me, but when she sits she doesn't face me.
> 
> ...


Here's another take. You are rewarding her for a slow recall. I would stop that. You might try a little run from her, maybe even run at a little slant so she gets a good picture of you running, which should get her running and then when she catches up to you (on a run), praise and a bumper. In fact I have used this with some of my dogs.


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

I've heard lots of board participants refer to "field classes" and "group field classes," but I don't believe that there are any such classes around my region. Although I know folks who go out and train with a pro on a fairly regular basis, they never refer to them as "classes"; they do so to get the benefit of running the pros' set ups and, thereby, get to run on the grounds/water to which the pro has access. As payback, they throw birds/bumpers for the pros. (Plus, it's a great way to watch and learn.)
As to the field "classes": 
> what are they?
> what is done in these classes?
> who are the trainers/instructors?
> where are the classes held (i.e., indoors or out)?
> are all of the dogs at the same level?
> how do you evaluate the instructor's credentials before choosing to attend?
> how do you evaluate the instructor when deciding whether to continue?
> do they provide birds?
> do the class participants throw bumpers/birds?
> do the class participants run each others' dogs?
> do the instructors "train the dog" or "train the trainer" or both?
> at what level do they train or train to (i.e., what are the goals: WC, WCX, JH, SH, MH, ***, AFC, FC, etc.)?
> do they hold different levels of classes?

Just curious.

Thanks!

FTGoldens


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

ktkins7 said:


> So Ella and I have run into a bit of a wall with our recall. I don't know if I did something wrong if she isn't understanding something because we seem to have gone a little backwards the last couple of days. Before, I would give the whistle signal and give a tug on the long line at the same time, say come (which we had previously trained with) and she would come running towards me. She kept going off to the side instead of to me, so the trainer said to step towards her. That does seem to have helped with having her in front of me instead of going past me.
> 
> I dropped the word come after a while and it didn't seem to do any damage at first. But all of the sudden it's like I'm back to square one. If I don't tug the line at all she just sits there. When she starts coming she takes her sweet old time. Won't listen to the whistle signal to sit on her way at all. She is coming to me, but when she sits she doesn't face me.
> 
> ...


I'm guessing you're pushing her a little too fast. She's uncertain and worrying about making a mistake. Back up and revisit work on the short leash (Here, Heel and Sit). She needs to be performing these commands with confidence on the short lead. It isn't enough that she know the commands. She must be performing them in a snappy, stylish manner that exudes confidence. (With verbal or whistle commands)


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## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

Thanks everyone. I'm going to try to take it back a bit while waiting to get in contact with the trainer.


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## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

I just emailed the trainer this morning. I didn't get a chance to train with her yesterday, but I worked with her a little bit this morning before breakfast. I wouldn't really call it a training session, but I kind of made it more fun for Ella. I put her in a sit stay and went maybe about 10 feet or so, whistle command with tug, verbal and let her come to me. She came quicker than she has been but not full speed. Because she was quicker I rewarded her with a bumper throw.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Do you just practice the recall by itself or do you throw a bumper for her to bring back to you? I ask this because she may just get bored of nothing but recalls and she is starting to blow you off. If you give her a job to do (such as pick up the bumper and bring back) she may get more excited about training and bring it to you for the next one.


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## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

Before today I was doing the recall by itself and then playing with the bumper after. Could she just be bored?

One problem with her retrieving is she doesn't always bring it back to me yet. She comes running towards me but normally stops short because she wants to try to chew the bumper. Think I should try throwing it only to where the line can reach and once she picks up the bumper give her the whistle signal then pull her the rest of the way to me when she stop early? If that makes sense.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

yup, start short (distance to me is not as important as the completion of the task and getting them excited about the next job). I would not pull, a little tug and a happy come or here and maybe couple dance back steps to encourage her to come to you.

ETA - when I started with Rose we were practicing just down the hallway in the house. All doors closed at first and she had no where else to go but back to me until she got the idea "if I take it to mom she will throw it again and I get to run again". Then I started opening the doors to make sure she still bring back to me and not take it in one of the rooms. I used one room and the hallway to do small doubles. All very short distances. Also a good set up for me to teach delivery to a heel and/or to front. Good for rainy snowy days. Keeps them preoccupied and gets them tired too.


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

ktkins7 said:


> ... I worked with her a little bit this morning before breakfast. I wouldn't really call it a training session, but I kind of made it more fun for Ella. I put her in a sit stay and went maybe about 10 feet or so, whistle command with tug, verbal and let her come to me. She came quicker than she has been but not full speed. Because she was quicker I rewarded her with a bumper throw.


That really IS training!
Perfect!


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## CarmenK (Dec 27, 2010)

ktkins7 said:


> So Ella and I have run into a bit of a wall with our recall. I don't know if I did something wrong if she isn't understanding something because we seem to have gone a little backwards the last couple of days. Before, *I would give the whistle signal and give a tug on the long line at the same time, say come (which we had previously trained with)* and she would come running towards me. She kept going off to the side instead of to me, so the trainer said to step towards her. That does seem to have helped with having her in front of me instead of going past me.


Am I right, you used the verbal COME command for your recall before you added the whistle-recall and you are sure Ella understood COME means to come to you? Your new whistle-recall is an alternate command for COME which you teach in the order "old command" - "new command". In this part of training: COME+ tug - WHISTLE.



> I dropped the word come after a while and it didn't seem to do any damage at first. But all of the sudden it's like I'm back to square one. If I don't tug the line at all she just sits there. When she starts coming she takes her sweet old time. Won't listen to the whistle signal to sit on her way at all. She is coming to me, but when she sits she doesn't face me.


This sounds like Ella is a bit confused and you need to step back a bit and simplify. She also shows signs of avoidance (not facing you, "looking for" distractions, moving, running behind you, ...)

In an earlier post you said the trainer adviced you:

Our next homework assignment, besides continuing to work on the same things, is recall. I put her in the sit from the heel and go to the end of the line. He said to sometimes circle her and sometimes not. He said to give her the "Come" command, which I've been using, and give a tug on the line at the same time. Then do the whistle command for it as I pull her in. Once she starts coming in on her own, then put my hand in the hand signal for it. Once she understands the whistle command, the trainer wants me to use the whistle to put her in a sit when she is coming towards me. He wants me to keep it random so she doesn't anticipate the command.
 
This should be done within some days or a few weeks, depending on Ella's progress in understanding each step. If she does one thing 99% then you add the next piece. I also would not do long training sessions. A couple of short drills a day is more worth.
By adding distractions you usually have to step back a little bit.

I have one more idea to Ella's refusals to come on your whistle, because I had this with Rocket when I moved on to COME. I wasn't clear enough in my whistling sounds. To Rocket my whistle-COME was the same as SIT. So, she had just learned SIT means sit and not come.


OT: Thank you for your PM. I still have not enough post to answer. I'll do my best.


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## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

I haven't heard back from the trainer yet, so this morning I played/trained with her for about 10 minutes after her potty walk. Started off with sit stay, which she was having an issue with because I had the bumper and she kept getting super excited for it. I just kept putting her back into it until she stayed put (I did have the choke collar on her this morning, which is what we've been training with). I went back only a little ways, within 6 feet, whistle, tug, verbal and sounded excited, moving my feet around. Ella came running. I didn't have her sit when she got to me, instead threw the bumper as a reward. I repeated this a handful of times. She quickly started coming as soon as I started the whistle blow, before I could give the quick tug. We did this for a bit. Not sure if she was coming to me because she knew I had the bumper though. She's too smart where even when it's behind my back she knows it's there. Lots of jumping around wanting the bumper.

We then switched more to play. I discovered that when I throw the bumper if I move around playfully she'll come back towards me. So I started doing that for a while. I threw in the whistle command for come. Hopefully this will help. Either way, she was running back and right to me when I did it this way. And as a bonus Ella had a complete blast.

Claudia - I may try that in the upstairs hallway later because it's not exactly a nice day out today. Cold and rainy. Normally she does better in the house retrieving when it comes to bringing it straight back.

Carmen - I was using the verbal COME before. She knew what it meant and came most of the time. We were still working on her coming despite distractions.

I don't know why she would be showing avoidance. We've never had an issue with that before, but she has had an issue keeping her focus on me. She has always preferred to watch the world around her than to keep her eye on me, no matter where we are.

I'm going to hold off on the sit for a while until the recall is consistent.

I did slow down on the whistle today to make sure I'm not confusing Ella.

Thanks again everyone.


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## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

FTGoldens said:


> I've heard lots of board participants refer to "field classes" and "group field classes," but I don't believe that there are any such classes around my region. Although I know folks who go out and train with a pro on a fairly regular basis, they never refer to them as "classes"; they do so to get the benefit of running the pros' set ups and, thereby, get to run on the grounds/water to which the pro has access. As payback, they throw birds/bumpers for the pros. (Plus, it's a great way to watch and learn.)
> As to the field "classes":
> > what are they?
> > what is done in these classes?
> ...


I did see your post but forgot to respond yesterday. Unfortunately I'm the wrong person to ask. I'm using a trainer that I found online through an internet search and another member on the forum had heard good things about him. I just decided that after one lesson that if I didn't like him for whatever reason I would try to find someone else. Here is the site for the trainer that I'm using: Pond View Retrievers: Retriever Training and Handler Training for Hunt Test and Waterfowling in MA, CT and RI So far I like working with him. If you click on where it says Training on the left side of the page it describes his program a bit.

Ella and I are only at the very beginning. We have had two of the "Yard Work" classes, building the obedience to be able to move forward. The first class was working on heel and getting her to remain in a sit until I release her from it. Also introduced using a whistle. As you can see we are on recall right now and once we finish that we'll start with the ecollar conditioning. These lessons are private one-on-one lessons that are held on field on the trainer's property. It seems to me that he is more of training me how to train Ella. For example, he'll use Ella to show me how to do an exercise then have me do it in front of him with Ella to make sure that I'm doing it correctly.

At the end of each lesson we are given a homework assignment with certain goals. Once we accomplish these goals we contact the trainer for the next lesson. If any issues or questions come up when working on the homework I can contact the trainer for help.

For when your ready for them he also has the field classes. I'm going to go an observe one as soon as I get a chance. The trainer has them a couple of times per week and they meet in a central location. He emails the schedule for the week and there are usually three different classes. From the emails I've gotten most of them seem to be set up to be similar to hunt tests. In the initial email he did say that there are live birds to use at an additional cost. That's all I really know about these classes so far. The classes we've done so far we've used bumpers. He gave us some duck wings to get her interested but she still won't pick them up. We're also working on getting the retriever in her to come out, which has come leaps and bounds since our last lesson.

For the level he trains, the website says "all levels of retriever AKC Hunt Test titles" and also to prepare for hunting season.

I think I've answered as much as I can. Others with more experience should be able to answer more. Like I said, Ella and I are complete newbies in this. Hope this helps a bit though.

Katie & Ella


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## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

Ella post retrieving in the rain. Cold and wet. If course I'm the only one who cares about that. Ella would have stayed out longer if I let her. I just threw her bumper, have the recall whistle and did the happy moving around thing and she kept coming right to me. Not full speed but at a run instead of a slow trot.

I'm assuming it's fine to do short sessions like this a few times throughout the day. That may be it for today though because of the weather.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

ktkins7 said:


> Ella post retrieving in the rain. Cold and wet. If course I'm the only one who cares about that. Ella would have stayed out longer if I let her. I just threw her bumper, have the recall whistle and did the happy moving around thing and she kept coming right to me. Not full speed but at a run instead of a slow trot.
> 
> I'm assuming it's fine to do short sessions like this a few times throughout the day. That may be it for today though because of the weather.


Nothing better than ending on a good note with Ella yearning for more!!!!


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## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

Was late getting home this morning (joys of working midnight shift) and I couldn't find my whistle  I know it's around somewhere. Anyway, I made a bit of a change of plans. I took Ella out with me while I did the Christmas lights outside. We've been working getting her comfortable in the yard because the idiot who installed the invisible fence jacked it all the way up to maximum. I haven't been putting the invisible fence collar on her until she's more comfortable in the yard, if ever. Now she's at the point where she'll run around and play if she has a line attached to her. If I unhook the line she plants herself right where she is. But right now I'm just viewing playing with the line on a big success since she wouldn't go out there at all before. She did pretty well while I was working with the lights. Didn't stray more than 100 feet from feet. Even when the neighbor came outside with her dog (I was ready to lunge for the line and step on it but didn't need to).

After I finished the lights we did a bit of retrieving. Didn't really work on recall because I didn't have the whistle. Just acted excited to get her to come right back to me with the retrieve. Since I didn't have the whistle I threw in the hand signal the trainer showed me since she was coming to me anyway.

Thinking of that, do some dogs do better with visual cues than verbal? I've notice Ella doing this with sit. She responds better to sit with a hand signal then saying sit or the whistle command. Just curious about it, that's all.

Hopefully I can find my whistle for practicing later today. :wavey:


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## Chritty (Aug 17, 2014)

My Millie does much better with visuals


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

ktkins

Keep a spare whistle in the car.


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## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

gdgli said:


> ktkins
> 
> Keep a spare whistle in the car.


I found it. I do need to get a spare though


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## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

Here's some pictures from our retrieving fun this morning. I've noticed with these morning sessions she actually eats her breakfast in the morning instead of ignoring it until dinner. For quite a while by her choice she was only eating one meal a day. When I was jogging with her she still only ate once a day. But every day since I've started training and playing with her she has eaten her breakfast shortly after we come inside. Not questioning it, just found it interesting.


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## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

For now I've gone back to the beginning with recall. Just going to slowly take it step by step and go from there. Its supposed to be pretty nasty weather today and tomorrow so I don't know how much work we'll be able to get in outside. Darn nor'easter.

Ella has been inconsistent with her whistle sits. When at a heel she is sitting whenever I stop walking but if she's not at a heel she is hit or miss. That I'm going to try to work on inside with this nasty weather. The biggest area of trouble is at the distance so far. She won't sit at the command, either whistle or saying the word sit, but then when I walk towards her then she'll sit right before I get to her. In this case I don't know whether I should give her correction since she is sitting at that point or what. Another thing to check with the trainer.

She is definitely obsessed with retrieving bumpers now. So far I've gotten her to retrieve everything except the duck wing (I don't have access to a bird). I've tried with it attached to the bumper and just the wing itself. She is definitely interested, sniffing and sometimes, but she won't pick it up. What I'm starting to try to do is get her really super excited about it like I got her with the bumper. Kind of teasing her with it a bit. She goes after it while it's in my hand but when I toss it, whether short or long throw, she'll run to it and just sniff. She hasn't tried to grab it out of my hand yet either. Someone suggested to just keep teasing her with it to make her really really want it, but not actually give it to her. Continue doing this until she is super frustrated to make her pick it up. Should I try this?

This coming Sunday we are going to our first group class in the field (as long as it isn't cancelled due to weather). We are only observing so that we can see what it's all about. It's supposed to be set up like a hunt test and there are live birds. The trainer said that there are only a few people signed up so far so he would be able to explain things more. It will also probably be the first time Ella will be exposed to gun shots. I'm hoping she'll do okay with it because she doesn't mind thunder or fireworks. Even though we'll just be watching I'm still excited.


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## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

This morning we had a good training session, despite the not-so-great weather. Worked on heeling, holding her in a sit while I circled her, and recall. Once she got into training mode she did well. This seems to be a normal thing with her where it takes her a few minutes to get into it. Doesn't listen at first but then she improves a bunch.

With the heeling we are slowly but steadily improving. With the placing her in a sit and holding her to do the circle she will get up every once in a while but gets it right about 9 times out of 10. I'm just going to keep with it to make sure she doesn't forget or anything. Our main areas to work on for the moment are the sitting on the whistle command and recall.

For the sit she knows the difference of when she has the choke collar on or not. If she is right by me she will plop her butt down right away most of the time. If she isn't right near me she usually doesn't. But when I walk towards her to correct her with the collar she sits down right before I get to her. Little brat. Also, when walking at a heel she will instantly sit when I stop. If I whistle and keep walking she wants to follow me. At least this one I can make a correction with. I'm open to suggestions on how to correct this. For now I think I'm going to work on starting with her right in front of me and slowly make my way farther away from her. Also in the house, when I'm the only one home, work on it when she isn't right next to me. I don't have the choke collar on her in the house so I'll have to go by positive reinforcement then.

For recall, since one of my last posts I've taken it way back. Worked on it in the hallway a little and learned we need a little improvement on sit/stay because somebody named Ella is getting too excited. The other main thing I've been doing is giving her the whistle signal when we are doing retrieving. When she picks the bumper up and is heading back to me I've been giving the whistle. Today I put her in the sit/stay and gave her the signal and only had to give a tug one time. She came running back to me each time :yipee: Only time we really had an issue was when the trash truck came around. But today I felt was a big progress and I'll take it. I'm going to worry about the sits the trainer wants as part of our "homework" later once I feel her running to me is reliable.


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

ktkins7 said:


> .... Once she got into training mode she did well. This seems to be a normal thing with her where it takes her a few minutes to get into it. Doesn't listen at first but then she improves a bunch.


That is a very insightful comment. In fact, I'd put that thought into a mental folder for reference when running any sort of field event. [It's also a good example of "reading" a dog.]

I had one dog that ran much, MUCH better if I would take the time in the morning of a trial to go through a wagon wheel drill with him. Although I believe that the practice is good for any dog (it gets you both in the teamwork frame of mind), for that particular dog it made a world of difference.

FTGoldens


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## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

Unfortunately with the holidays and my work schedule I have been slacking with training for the last couple of weeks, only working on a little here and there. Still working on recall. Also figuring out how to get her more consistent with the whistle sit. If she's right in front of me she does fine but if she isn't in front of me then it's a bit sketchy. I'm also thrown off a bit because when I go towards her to make the correction she sits when I get close to her. I don't know whether to give a correction then or not because I don't want her to think I'm giving her a correction for sitting when I'm approaching.

We did go to one of the group lessons with the trainer and observed for a good portion of a day. They set up different scenarios with dead birds and blinds. Most of the dogs there were already pretty experienced. Only one of the dogs, which looked maybe a little younger than Ella, hadn't been force fetched yet and used white bumpers instead of birds.

The trainer did offer to have Ella give it a try. I don't know all the terminology yet, but the person was down hill behind a screen maybe 30 to 40 yards out. Ella kenneled up fine and came with me to the line and went to heel without any issues. When the bumper was thrown I don't know if Ella didn't see it in the air or was confused :no: So far we've only done where I've thrown it when I was standing next to her. When the person came from behind the screen to try to guide Ella she was definitely confused at that point. She went in that direction but didn't seem to get there was a bumper over there for her. The trainer said we'll work on it with our next lesson...If I can get her recall down :uhoh:

One of the other guys there with his dogs, one of which was a senior champion, said it's not unusual for that to happen at first. Ella's smart, so I'm imagining she'll figure it out. She's definitely obsessed with the bumpers when I'm playing with her in the yard, so I'd imagine once she figures it out and will pick up birds she should have enough drive to continue on. But she also has to show it to the trainer. There was a big improvement with her retrieving between our first private lesson and the second, so hopefully we'll keep improving from there.


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## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

Haven't updated in a while because we haven't done too much training with all of this cold weather and snow. Thought I would give a bit of an update on what we've been doing though.

Since it's easy to do inside, I've been working on Ella's sits. I hadn't realized before that she didn't understand sit. She must have thought that she was supposed to be right next to me to sit. If she wasn't near me, she would either just look at me or come to me and then sit. So I've randomly been giving her the sit command through the house. If I see her near the door I tell her to sit from wherever I am. I'll randomly tell her to sit. She doesn't totally get it but she's improving. I've been holding off on using the whistle until she has it down better.

I've also been working on recall, mostly in the house, but also a bit outside. With the recall, distractions are our enemy right now. I've also got to figure out how to get her to come more quickly. Sometimes she sprints to me, other times she takes her time. I haven't figured out any consistency in whether she comes quickly or slowly. I've been doing the throw a party method when she sprints to me, and just a "yes, good girl" low key when she comes but takes her time.

Yesterday we had a bit warmer temperatures so we took a longer walk on the long line. I added the whistle. Recall was a big improvement from the last time we tried this. I didn't do it when we were near stuff where I thought the distraction would be too much because I didn't want to set her up for failure. She also did better with the sit, but not as good as inside. She still has the tendency to want to come towards me rather than staying where she is and sitting. But a uh uh stops her where she is and she sits. I also didn't use the choke collar because she runs like a nut case in the snow and I didn't want it to get caught up on anything. Other than that, I think she is getting a bit confused between the whistle for sit and the whistle for recall. I might be doing the one for recall too quickly, so next time I'm going to try to slow it down. When I used the verbal for come she was fine. 

To hold us over until warmer weather we're doing a practicing the basics obedience class. My main goal with the class is to get her to listen more consistently with distractions. The methods are different than what we've been doing with the field work, all positive and using lots of treats. I do feel like we actually both have more fun using the field methods. The last obedience class she just wanted to play, after doing fantastic the week before.

During this mornings shift at work I was talking to our K9 officer, who said he would help me a bit with Ella's training. His method is more similar to the field trainer. He uses the prong collar as a training tool, but ultimately the goal is to have complete control of the dog without any sort of correctional collar. He also doesn't really use treats, instead praise and toys. But he said he would start the training with Ella from the very beginning, like he would a puppy.

He gave me a couple of things to work on until we get together. The first is to improve her focus on me, which isn't so great right now. For the most part it is nothing in life is free. For the next week he wants me to feed her by hand. She has to make and hold eye contact with me before I give her any food. Start with a very short amount of time and build it up. If she breaks eye contact she has to wait until she gives me eye contact again. The other thing is to pick up her toys. She only gets to play with her toys if she's with me. Basically, we want her to connect me with good things and all good things come from me. Another thing we're going to start on working on is getting her to do what I tell her to until I release her. Right now, she will break from whatever I have her doing when she gets what she wants. the final thing he showed me was his method of getting her to give. He said a tug toy is the easiest. Let it go limp her mouth so she will let go of it, give her the verbal command as I'm taking it and praise her. Then give her release word and give her the tug back. He demonstrated with his dog Xander. The dog was absolutely obsessed with the tug but let go of it instantly on command. He could then move the toy all around the dog, right in front of it's face, whatever he wanted with it and the dog didn't try to get it back. The second he got the release word he went crazy playing with the tug toy again.

I think that covers everything for now. I'll post more updates as they come.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

I think you are doing great! It's quite a journey all this new stuff isn't it!


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## Chritty (Aug 17, 2014)

Sounds like some great advice from the K9 officer!! Gonna steal some ideas myself I think!!

Just wondering if you've considered using a "working" command for a distance sit? If she thinks sit is next to you then teach her a different command for a distance sit. Once you have a solid distance sit from her start weening her off of the "working" command and on to the real command. That way is meant to help eradicate sloppiness as well


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

ktkins

The training advice that you describe sounds good. NILIF is a very good policy.

As for whistle sits, I started this really early. I mean like 9 weeks. Far from perfect but I wanted early learning. I knew that I wanted a good whistle sit for field. After Buffy got the idea of sit at heel I changed to a whistle as the cue. Blow whistle, say sit, then reward for the sit. Do this a few times, a couple of days, then eliminate the word sit. Pup should sit on the whistle alone.

Step 2. Whenever I wanted her to sit for a retrieve I would blow the whistle (didn't use verbal sit), even at heel. Why? The whistle starts to take on the meaning of "Sit and get ready because a retrieve is coming". Don't forget, the retrieve is the ultimate reward. No sit, no retrieve. And I communicate with whistle only.

Step 3. Keep a bumper or even a tennis ball hidden (must be hidden) and let your dog run and play in the field. Don't let her get too far out. Suddenly blow the whistle. If your basics were good, you will get a sit. Once you get a sit and the dog looks at you really good, throw the bumper just anywhere and let the dog retrieve.

This basic way of teaching worked quite well for me. This is how I taught it. There are other ways to do it. I shaped the imperfect sit until I got what I wanted and it is pretty good. Excellent in fact. WARNING: Many don't like this method because it is so "operant".


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

George's ideas are great ones, I don't see how anyone could argue as that being a very good way at teaching and building "want to" for sitting on the whistle.
I definitely found that as your field training progresses, eventually you are going to want to collar condition to "SIT" and the whistle, which will add the "have to" to your training and making compliance to the whistle sit command much more reliable, especially at a distance and while the dog is actively pursuing a bird or bumper. But there is a LOT of teaching/habits/patterns that go into it before you get to this point.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

k9-Design

Thank you. I didn't add but now I will. I make a distinction between teaching and proofing, in this case changing sit whistle into a "have to".


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## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

I think right now with the sit, we're at the point where she is in the process of understanding what she is supposed to do. Sometimes I'll get a sit at a distance, sometimes I won't, regardless of whether it's verbal or a whistle. The closer she is to me the greater consistency I get with the sit, once again, regardless of whether it's verbal or whistle. So I guess it's proofing it at this point. I get the feeling that with the ecollar, once I'm trained and she's conditioned with it, is going to make a big difference. As for the verbal vs the whistle, I guess I want to be able to get to the point where I can use them interchangeably. Not only with sit but also with the recall. I know I won't have a whistle with me for every single activity we do so I don't want to be entirely dependent on it.

When I'm working on heeling I have been doing that with using the whistle to put her into a sit. I like your ideas for Step 2 and Step 3. I'll have to incorporate those. Unfortunately I can only work in the yard because I haven't found a nearby field where Ella is allowed. I thought I had a good place but we got kicked out by the town's animal control 

Now for what we've been doing as suggested by the K9 officer. Each of her meals has been fed by hand. I'm making her give me eye contact before giving her some food in my hand. She seems to be catching on pretty quick. I do find her sometimes losing interest with a few bites left, not sure if that's her focus, she's distracted, or she is just no longer hungry. The other thing I've noticed is that when I start to move my hand she will break eye contact. If I give her an uh uh for breaking the eye contact, then she's looking away from me instead of going back to giving me eye contact. I've got to figure that one out. I've just been waiting her out until she returns the eye contact and then I praise her.

For the give I'm finding I need a lot of patience with Miss Ella. I got a couple of the same rope toy. The rope toy will be the only thing she allowed to tug. Anything else I'll just drop the item if she starts to tug on it. I'm getting her into a tug game, then letting the rope go limp. We have success with her stopping the tugging when it goes limp. But it takes a long time for her to actually let go of it. She keeps chewing it and mouthing it. I just keep holding it limp until she lets go at this point, and as soon as she lets go I tell her "give." I also have to watch because sometimes when she let's go and I am moving it away from her she jumps and grabs at it. I'm resisting the urge to yank it away from her when she does this. Once I do get the rope tug and the give command successfully, I'm waiting just a short amount of time, give her the release and let her take it again or throw it for her as a reward.

Something I forgot to mention in my last post that the K9 officer said that I found interesting. Unless a dog follows the command all the time, regardless of surroundings and distractions, the dog doesn't fully understand a command. When the dog completely understands it will perform one hundred percent of the time. He also gave an example of a dog completely understanding what's expected of it. Not that he would do this, obviously, but he could put his dog in a sit or a down in the middle of one of the busiest roads in the city with traffic going all around him, cats running in front of him, you name it, and he will not get up until he gets released.

Ella staying where I put her until I release her is something we've got to work on more. She's improving but no where near perfect. When I put her in a sit I've got to get her to stay in her sit until I release her, and right now she will only do that for a short amount of time. So I'm just working on getting her to stay a little longer as we progress.

Thanks again everyone.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

ktkins7 said:


> Something I forgot to mention in my last post that the K9 officer said that I found interesting. Unless a dog follows the command all the time, regardless of surroundings and distractions, the dog doesn't fully understand a command.


Yep. So many people don't believe this. If my dog will ignore my first command because the doorbell rang, a squirrel ran by, another dog barked, you name it -- then he doesn't really know the command. 

Similarly, while I know scoring a perfect score in the obedience ring is a once-in-a-lifetime event for most handlers, in my mind, if I don't train my dog to the point where I think he COULD score a 200, then I'm taking him in the ring unprepared. If I knew he didn't have the potential to score a 200, then he doesn't understand fully what I've trained him to do, and we have more work to do!


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