# I just got an email



## Wagners Mom2 (Mar 20, 2012)

I'll just say....."good luck". lol. Will be interested in hearing the outcome.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

Wow :no: Some people. Id spill your thoughts out, I would. I wouldnt care if she got pissy. Though, why would she need full breeding rights? Doodles are not AKC so the ones here will just get any female they can find and breed from it regardless.

To humour yourself, you could reply back and ask her for a bit more information about what health testing she does prior to breeding. Though, her response may be "We dont health test" and it may make you more mad....


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## My Big Kahuna (Dec 14, 2011)

I am very curious to see what your response is  I've had random people tell me I should breed Kahuna for doodles and had a couple seriously inquire so without getting into my feelings I simply say "I think he has bad hips" and I have yet to meet someone who considers that a deal breaker **shake head**


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## OnMyWay2MyDreams (Feb 13, 2011)

Oy vey! I wouldn't hold back.... They aren't evening having any "purebred" litters next year but already are planning on having goldens doodles. Also, they call them PoGo ..:doh: 

No Health testing done., as far as I can see, and all the letters all the owners kept touting on how big their dogs and pups are getting., yeah that will be great when they get hip dysplasia and need surgery..:doh:


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## Millie'sMom (Sep 7, 2012)

Good Luck with this one. Maybe you should inquire further about their breeding practices and philosophies, just for the entertainment of their response. I can hardly wait to see your reply.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> Acadia Goldendoodles breeds ONLY F1 and F1b Goldendoodles.
> 
> These first generation crosses benefit from “hybrid vigor,” so they
> 
> ...


Hmm. This tells me she would not have anything to do with the AKC if they become a foundation breed. From what I remember reading somewhere else... there has to be at least 3 generations behind a dog to be considered foundation stock.


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## Altairss (Sep 7, 2012)

Wow that so defeats what those who actually care what make a doodle and the reason that was cross was originally planned. To make a sucessful doodle it requires multi generations carefull testing for the allergins and all health concerns for the parent stock. Unfortunately too many people though ohh money lets make some and just breed to breed.
I am not for doodles but I have seen some breeders, a very small small percentage, in WA that are doing all testing for their breeding stock based on the breed and testing the dogs for the allergin context and some are all ready working on setting type and trying to get a consenus for a breed standard. Someone is always out for the money.
Someone in our 4-h just bought a third generation doodle. She always wanted a big dog but was not a fan of the poodle but really liked this cross and so far no trips to the hospital she has a severe allerge And they do testing for hips, heart elbows and a few other things that had to do with the poodle.


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## Gwen_Dandridge (Jul 14, 2012)

The ugliest dog I have seen in a long time is a golden-doodle. It was clearly an unfortunate mix. He is huge and looks like he has a very bad 60's Afro, only all over. His coloring is very golden, a lovely rich gold, and a disposition that is meaner than a snake. He's always on leash and has a trainer and an owner out on the trails.

I had looked into getting a mix after Amber died and before we found Maddie. It was a very short flight of fancy and quickly dismissed. 

Now, nothing can remove me from my Golden fixation.

As a friend recently said, "Gwen, you don't even see dogs if they aren't Goldens." 

It's kind of true, though I do notice Bernese Mountain dogs.


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## annef (Feb 23, 2008)

My answer to those sort of enquiries is:

'I am really sorry but I only sell puppies to people who want dogs as pets and to love them as part of their family, not commercial crossbred breeders'

Never had an answer back!

Annef


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

I certainly would not sell a female with a full registration to someone who would breed her for the purpose of producing Goldendoodles. Plus I don't see anything with regards to clearances for her purebred Goldens.


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

Altairss said:


> Wow that so defeats what those who actually care what make a doodle and the reason that was cross was originally planned. To make a sucessful doodle it requires multi generations carefull testing for the allergins and all health concerns for the parent stock. Unfortunately too many people though ohh money lets make some and just breed to breed.
> I am not for doodles but I have seen some breeders, a very small small percentage, in WA that are doing all testing for their breeding stock based on the breed and testing the dogs for the allergin context and some are all ready working on setting type and trying to get a consenus for a breed standard. Someone is always out for the money.
> Someone in our 4-h just bought a third generation doodle. She always wanted a big dog but was not a fan of the poodle but really liked this cross and so far no trips to the hospital she has a severe allerge And they do testing for hips, heart elbows and a few other things that had to do with the poodle.


Like I said about the Comfort Retriever in my other post, if breeders would carefully research and design the genetics and desirable attributes of this new breed and seriously crafted a version of the breed with a genuine purpose in mind that could be accepted as a newly recognized breed by the AKC, I would have no problem with that. Hopefully, I used the right choice of words.


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

GOSH you guys are not helping me come up wiht a snarky response... lol 

Please don't for one single second think that I am taking this seriously... I showed my husband last night... I told him that we had gotten a really good enquiry about a puppy and I wanted to show him the email.... so he came over and read the first two sentences an walked away.... muttering under his breath... and then looked at Connie on my lap and said "gee but now we have so many more stud dog options!" I threw something at him.... 

I just need an intelligent yet somewhat snarky response... which is why I wrote about breed stability, standard and akc recognition... that would take forever ... which is basically a "when He** freezes over response" but it needs more finesse... I have errands to run today I am sure I can think of soemthing good by the time I get home...


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## Millie'sMom (Sep 7, 2012)

Acadia Goldendoodles breeds ONLY F1 and F1b Goldendoodles. 

These first generation crosses benefit from “hybrid vigor,” so they 

are usually healthier and have fewer inherited diseases than purebred

dogs.

I always wonder about this "hybrid vigor" resulting in healtier dogs. If dog A is from one breed and has X possible inheritable issues and dog B is from another breed with Y possbile inheritable issues wouldn't the resulting puppy have X+Y possible inheritable issues, resulting in more not less possible issues?


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

I honestly wouldn't write something snarky, as much fun as that would be.

There's already a stereotype out there that purebred hobby breeders are snobby, elitist jerks who are against crosses for old-fashioned reasons and a sense of "purity" or other eugenic mindsets.

The best thing you could do would be the friendliest possible explanation of why you could never participate in repeated F1 breed crosses. It comes down to health and type.

How about this:

I'm sorry, but everything I love about Golden Retrievers is protected by careful breeding within the breed as we seek to improve health, longevity, and breed type. By making repeated F1 crosses, you are repeatedly rolling the dice on health and outbreeding depression in a way that I cannot support. F1 breed crosses cannot consistently produce health and type in a litter, and I love dogs too much to make those gambles with their health. I strongly urge you to reconsider your breeding philosophy and to review the reasons both the Poodle Club of America and the Golden Retriever Club of America or so strongly opposed to breeding Golden/Poodle crosses.

Thanks for your interest,
&c.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

I would actually hope you would take advantage of the situation to try to educate - explain in a non-snarky way why you won't be selling her a puppy. If you're snarky, the breeder will just roll her eyes or get defensive and stop reading (and go find a puppy somewhere else). Take the opportunity to educate. That is the best thing you can do. You have the knowledge - share it. Maybe, just maaaaybe, you'll help her see what's wrong with what she is doing.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Millie'sMom said:


> I always wonder about this "hybrid vigor" resulting in healtier dogs. If dog A is from one breed and has X possible inheritable issues and dog B is from another breed with Y possbile inheritable issues wouldn't the resulting puppy have X+Y possible inheritable issues, resulting in more not less possible issues?


Hybrid vigor is a term that's consistently misused by the folks who cross breeds. What it really refers to is the fact that when you outcross less related animals, you get a wider range of variation in characteristics in the offspring. In the wild, that leads to some offspring being better suited to survive. That's hybrid vigor. What the crossers don't tell you is that it also leads to some animals being _less_ suited to survival, which is called outbreeding depression.

For example, if you outbreed, you might have a wide variety of coat types. If it's cold that year, the denser coats would be an example of hybrid vigor. If it's a warm year, the denser coats would be an example of outbreeding depression. Another example is mules (horse/donkey hybrids). They're generally tougher than either horses or donkeys (hybrid vigor), but they're not typically fertile (outbreeding depression).

It has nothing to do with general "genetic superiority" or some other indefinable quality of being better. It's contextual to the individual animal's ability to survive in the environment.


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## mickeychick (Jul 19, 2012)

tippykayak said:


> How about this:
> 
> I'm sorry, but everything I love about Golden Retrievers is protected by careful breeding within the breed as we seek to improve health, longevity, and breed type. By making repeated F1 crosses, you are repeatedly rolling the dice on health and outbreeding depression in a way that I cannot support. F1 breed crosses cannot consistently produce health and type in a litter, and I love dogs too much to make those gambles with their health. I strongly urge you to reconsider your breeding philosophy and to review the reasons both the Poodle Club of America and the Golden Retriever Club of America or so strongly opposed to breeding Golden/Poodle crosses.
> 
> ...


Great response Tippy! Very professional, yet it gets the point across


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

I like Annef's response! A tiny bit snarky, but taking the high ground and hitting on an argument I think everyone can agree with.


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

Invite her over, show her your dogs , their accomplishments, their clearances. Sit down and have a real chat about dogs and the right way vs the wrong way. She'll have no choice but to listen. A friend had someone inquire about her stud dog. She never would breed to this person's bitch but invited her over to visit and did all the things I wrote. It opened the BYB's eyes and taught her some things. 


Sent from my iPhone using PG Free


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## Millie'sMom (Sep 7, 2012)

tippykayak said:


> Hybrid vigor is a term that's consistently misused by the folks who cross breeds. What it really refers to is the fact that when you outcross less related animals, you get a wider range of variation in characteristics in the offspring. In the wild, that leads to some offspring being better suited to survive. That's hybrid vigor. What the crossers don't tell you is that it also leads to some animals being _less_ suited to survival, which is called outbreeding depression.
> 
> For example, if you outbreed, you might have a wide variety of coat types. If it's cold that year, the denser coats would be an example of hybrid vigor. If it's a warm year, the denser coats would be an example of outbreeding depression. Another example is mules (horse/donkey hybrids). They're generally tougher than either horses or donkeys (hybrid vigor), but they're not typically fertile (outbreeding depression).
> 
> It has nothing to do with general "genetic superiority" or some other indefinable quality of being better. It's contextual to the individual animal's ability to survive in the environment.


Thanks for the lesson. I live in an area where the various doodles seem to be everywhere. A lot of the owners are think their "designer mutts" are better than the purebreds because A) the paid more-generally $500-1000 more and B) this hybrid vigor, which I assume is being quoted directly from their breeder. Funny, I have never heard them mention outcrossing depression.


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## pandamonium (Apr 18, 2012)

Golden doodles are not yankee doodle anything but a mutt...


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