# Field Training Nov 2013



## PalouseDogs (Aug 14, 2013)

November, already! We had an inch or two of snow on the ground this morning, so I threw the snow tires in the van and tried to beat the crowd to Les Scwaab. About 15 people were faster than I was, so I'm at McD's for another hour or so waiting for them to get to my van.

We had a windy weekend. In between raking leaves out of my OB training area in the yard, I used the wind to work on getting Maple to run straighter lines in cross winds. 

On Saturday, when we had steady winds of 25-30 mph and gusts near 50 mph, I put out 3 visible birds at about 20-30 yards and lined her to each with the reminder to "Fight the wind". (I have no idea if adding a verbal will help in the future, but she is good at understanding words.) Maple tends to arc to the left, wind or not, even in the short distance of an OB ring on a Go-out. (Probably because she has a slightly twisted-in right hind leg.) She did good on the sight blinds, with a little bit of arcing when the wind was coming from the right, and a nice straight line when we turned around and had the wind from the left. 

Since that went well, I sent up 3 short cold blinds. She needed one whistle and recast on the longest blind perpendicular to the wind. 

Sunday was still windy, but not nearly as bad. I set up 2 cold blinds in opposite directions, one with the wind from the right, one with the wind from the left. For both, I added the distraction of a white bumper about 15 yards off-line to the birds. On the first one, she took the bait and veered off her good, straight line start, and then on the whistle-stop and recast, turned the wrong way and picked up the bumper. I went out, replaced the bumper. put her where she was when she took the wrong cast, walked back to the start line and gave the cast again. This time, she made the right decision. 

On the second cold blind, turned the opposite direction and with the wind from the right, which tends to exaggerate her tendency to arc left, she took a laser straight line to the bird. It felt a little like progress.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

I cannot believe it is November - posted under October this morning!

went to a group field training yesterday. Wow was it different! Rose did OK considering it was the first time there. The people were also very nice. 
One guy came over and asked if he can throw a bumper for Rose to see how she acts with a stranger throwing for her and she did retrieve both times. 
Until now we have trained with a cap gun. Rose and Darcy have heard louder shots from inside while DH was target practicing his pistols. But these things were loud (I will remember next time to get ear muffs) and everywhere (two training spots separated by water). She did not flinch. The moment she heard the gun shot her attention was there and whined to go for it. Towards the end of the day she learned not to whine and just pay attention. 

It was so good to watch her. The moment she heard the duck call she looks, the moment she heard the gun shot she sat looking for the bird and waiting to be sent. 

They did not have fliers yesterday but did practice with thawed ducks. Rose was not impressed at all. The same guy from the group was very nice and made sure we left the day with a duck to bring home and practice more. 
Instead Rose did bumpers. I almost stopped breathing on her first close bumper. She stopped and smelled dog poop just about four feet away from the line. Then she stopped and smelled the decoys (her first time seeing them). By then I thought she completely forgot about the bumper. She did not, she licked a decoy and then went for the bumper. Phew! The second was better. We did some more retrieves away from the training grounds. Then we switched terrain. She was the last to go as we were also trying to learn how to help with the equipment. We did 4 retrieves. The first two were bad (she went to them, got them but knew I was behind the blind with the rifle so instead of taking them back she was looking for me at the blind). The last two someone else threw and I went behind the line and she nailed them both nicely.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

I completely forgot, DH reminded me today, on her first bumper also the sirens drove by and made all the possible noise on top of all the other shooting going around. 
I think I blocked everything out as my attention was just on her and nothing else. 
They only meet once a month (first Sunday of the month during hunting season and first Saturday of the month during the rest of the year). I cannot wait to go back. Hopefully by then I will have Rose Force Fetch trained and she will take the duck. The farthest I got with her last evening was to fetch the wing for me down the hallway - all doors closed and no where else where she could go. She did so reluctantly and then I went a step more and had her heel with the wing in her mouth around the house for a couple minutes. She kept it in her mouth and she also protected it from Darcy trying to snatch it from her until she delivered it. 
I love her so...


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

For the ones that I do not know on FB - here are some pics that I was able to get while warming up in the car.


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## PalouseDogs (Aug 14, 2013)

Nice training grounds! So jealous...
BTW, you should add a line to your signature letting us know which dog is Rose and which Darcy. Will Rose hold a pigeon? If not, you might want to start with a pigeon and work your way up to ducks.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Sorry Kelly, good idea - DONE. Rose is the Golden retriever. Darcy is the Flat coated retriever.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

holy crap those are nice grounds!! LOVE the water. I WANT IT.


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

wow I'm really excited for you guys to actually start this group training. I think it will make all the difference! yay!!


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

The people in the group could not be nicer. I may have to take Darcy next time (First Sunday in December) since Rose just started her heat. We have been working with her on the gun shot sounds all summer and hope she will be just like Rose. She will be a little harder to hold off as she is very vocal. Rose whines sort of silently and by the end of the day she did not whine at all - if you watch the last video posted under their FB page you will see what I mean with Darcy. She knew we were working Rose outside and we could hear her from the back of the yard all the way inside. It has a lot to do with her separation anxiety caused by previous owner. Her siblings are nothing like that.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

hotel4dogs said:


> holy crap those are nice grounds!! LOVE the water. I WANT IT.


Maybe you can move with Tito and Tiny a bit closer!!!!! I know I would love that!


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## PalouseDogs (Aug 14, 2013)

You definitely want to make the group training sessions whenever you can. Beautiful grounds, group training..., nothing will help you more. Just try to remember to TRAIN, not test, when with a group. Don't let yourself get psyched into thinking it's a competition. And you definitely want to bring Darcy! They are both retrievers. If you're bringing one, you might as well bring both. 

I didn't realize Rose was so young. I didn't get serious about retriever training until Maple was about 2.5 years. Once I got started, her enthusiasm really pulled me in hook, line, and sinker.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Thanks Kelly! I was nervous before we went; I did not know what to expect, I did not know what to expect from Rose as far as behavior. Hahaha I guess "Be prepared for the worst and hope for the best" sounds quite accurate. 

I personally believe most of the "work" before the age of 2 should be concentrated on obedience with moderate training in other venues. After that age you should do what the dog is capable of both mentally and physically.

As far as Darcy - oh yes - I would love to take her. Her brother was there yesterday and he looked magnificent. 
I honestly don't think I could handle two on the same trip. There is no way I have the heart to leave on in the car while handling the other. And most definitely I do not have the heart to leave Darcy alone in the car. That would be devastating to her progress on the separation anxiety. Even yesterday, if someone could not stay home with her I would have passed on the training with Rose and vice versa. While we were away my daughter took Darcy for walks outside, played Frisbee and trained with her. DH's sons also came by.


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

Sunday my freshman daughter had her first Retriever Club "field" training day! It is a club in her high school. While there are a ton of boys (all the jocks that hunt but don't even have dogs) that showed up for the meetings, only four kids showed up for the actual training. My daughter recruited two of them! The coach was so excited about 4 dogs showing up, the first time in his history of the club! The three other dogs were not trained in anything and two of the dogs didn't have much obedience at all. By the time it was over two boys were off working on simple sit and heel and short recall with the check cord. My daughter and I worked on throwing some marks for each other and I worked on the simple casting skills me and Kat are learning. By the end of the day, we had both non obedient dogs going for fun bumpers and coming back to the boys with them! The boys were so excited to already see some results in terms of the dogs coming back to them when calling here! It was great and fun and the coach said he couldn't believe it! The other dog wouldn't pick up bumpers because she wasn't used to them so the mom was going to buy some canvas little bumpers at academy and work on her dog with them. I think she was way more into it than her daughter, lol. All in all very rewarding afternoon with the kids. My trainer wants to come next month and set up a small demo to show these kids what the dogs are capable of doing and the coach wants to get them up to the AKC test next weekend to watch. The test is literally 30 minutes from our house. Yesterday at school one of the boys told Savannah how much he loved it and how he was working with his dog that morning and couldn't wait to come to the next training day. My trainer told Savannah she could bring him out on Saturday to our training days. It is so exciting to see the youth getting into this really great sport with their dogs. 

On another note, Savannah (my daughter) finally got Peaches picking up the duck for her! That was also very exciting for her. Peaches has a mind of her own for sure and Savannah has been working and working on taming the beast! It is all very neat to watch the two of them! Savannah plans to start testing her in spring. The duck was really the last obstacle for her, as Peaches knows how to do all that is expected of her from the training I'd given to her before. Savannah talked about it all night yesterday!


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

So wonderful and such a great idea! It is such a good way to get the kids involved. Funny - that is exactly what the club president said during the short lunch meeting on Sunday. Get the kids involved. They are our future of continuing this work with the dogs. 
Rose wouldn't be where she is today if my daughter did not work with her during the summer from the day we got her. She has potty trained her, taught her the basic obedience, taught her it was OK to be alone.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Wow, I have the opposite problem with Lucy, she hates bumpers. Once she got on birds, she would look at the bumper on the ground and absolutely refuse. We did FF training and now she'll pick up a bumper if I tell her. But sometimes it's still an ear pinch. She's all about the birds. It took us 2 months or so to get through FF training. Now we're on force to pile, and with bumpers it's an ear pinch to pile every time. Totally annoying. So sometimes if I really want to her to remember how to do something I'll use a pigeon, like if I need to teach her line manners. She has a super great memory if a bird is involved. 

Finding nice places to train is so difficult. Today in our newspaper I saw the public notice for the local retriever clubs to have their field trials on national forest land. I bet that paperwork was a pain to fill out. But Turnagain Pass is the most beautiful place to have a field trial.

Training is going poorly. Miss Lucy doesn't think she needs to learn Back. So we need to keep working. We're in an Attention class right now, so hopefully it will help her handling. We're also in a show ring handling class, I am determined to beat her sister in the show ring!


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## Discoverer (Feb 3, 2011)

Alaska7133 said:


> Wow, I have the opposite problem with Lucy, she hates bumpers. Once she got on birds, she would look at the bumper on the ground and absolutely refuse. We did FF training and now she'll pick up a bumper if I tell her. But sometimes it's still an ear pinch. She's all about the birds. It took us 2 months or so to get through FF training. Now we're on force to pile, and with bumpers it's an ear pinch to pile every time. Totally annoying. So sometimes if I really want to her to remember how to do something I'll use a pigeon, like if I need to teach her line manners. She has a super great memory if a bird is involved.
> 
> Finding nice places to train is so difficult. Today in our newspaper I saw the public notice for the local retriever clubs to have their field trials on national forest land. I bet that paperwork was a pain to fill out. But Turnagain Pass is the most beautiful place to have a field trial.
> 
> Training is going poorly. Miss Lucy doesn't think she needs to learn Back. So we need to keep working. We're in an Attention class right now, so hopefully it will help her handling. We're also in a show ring handling class, I am determined to beat her sister in the show ring!


I noticed Oscar got really excited with bumpers when other dog in sight, so it looks more like a competition for him. When I train him alone, he's doing what is asked to, but I don't see that much drive. And live (or rather dead ) birds are completely different story.


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## Sweese (Sep 25, 2013)

*Cassie running lines*

I am blessed with a few acres around the house and this year I was able to mow some nice paths to help Cassie learn lines and handling. Here is picture when she was starting lines at 7 months.









Now at 10 months we are blowing past some of my paths. In the attached video the current path goes out to 50 yards. Cassie continues in the tall grass on up the hill for a 175 yard line.






Jay


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

can't watch the video - it is private.


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## Sweese (Sep 25, 2013)

Claudia M said:


> can't watch the video - it is private.



sorry about that. fixed now. 

Jay


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

PalouseDogs said:


> Sunday was still windy, but not nearly as bad. I set up 2 cold blinds in opposite directions, one with the wind from the right, one with the wind from the left. For both, I added the distraction of a white bumper about 15 yards off-line to the birds. On the first one, she took the bait and veered off her good, straight line start, and then on the whistle-stop and recast, turned the wrong way and picked up the bumper. I went out, replaced the bumper. put her where she was when she took the wrong cast, walked back to the start line and gave the cast again. This time, she made the right decision.
> 
> On the second cold blind, turned the opposite direction and with the wind from the right, which tends to exaggerate her tendency to arc left, she took a laser straight line to the bird. It felt a little like progress.


I'm not a fan of doing stuff like this on cold blinds. It's a bumper -- of course she thinks she should get it! I would rather set it up in a more controlled drill setting than a cold blind (like a cast-off drill, which I love), unless the dog was an experienced blind running dog and was showing me some consistent behavior of blowing off casts or bailing on distractions and needed the work. Also ---------- especially when working on some mitigating factor like a crosswind, make your blinds a lot longer. 20-30 yards isn't enough distance to let the factor make some effect.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Anney,
Would you mind updating here on the stuff you are working on with Bally? I would really like that if you have time. Ellie and I are heading off to Dog Trainers Workshop tomorrow for our first private obedience lesson - Ellie has finally started putting it together that if she returns to heel she will get another bumper thrown. It is a major breakthrough for me.  We are still working on casting. Wish I'd started that when you showed me Bally's drill over the summer. Also, can you explain to me how to start getting Ellie to understand whistle sits at a distance? She does it for a treat like a champ but now I need to start going at a distance….

Thanks, Kristy


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

HA - I am laughing now but I for sure was not laughing earlier this morning. This does not have anything to do with field work other than the fact that it happened in the field. 
After taking the cat to the vet this morning I saw my bed completely moved by the two brats and decided to give them a run outside. As Rose goes #1 in the yard, her head gets attentive towards the back of our yard. It took me a couple seconds to realize that she was not just meditating while doing her thing but that she spotted a buck bedded into the dry dead tall grass behind the tree right past our property line. Not to mention that by that time she was already there chasing the darn thing. Do you think she listened to NO, HERE, BACK, ROSE or anything for that matter? HE*L NO! I finally remembered I had the whistle on me and started whistling at her and she finally made a turn around to me. That was the moment I wished I had an e-collar on her and zap her!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

FINALLY got out to Dan's today. It was cold and windy, but at least not raining. 
We started off with some blinds. Dan set up 6 of varying difficulty, but Tito lined the first 4 so we said heck with this, and went quail hunting instead. Tito flushed 2 quail, and trapped one. They were hunkered waaaay down in the cover, under the grass mat, and it took quite a bit of persistence for him to find them. 
He's a good little hunter.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

I was wrong again. I was hoping to use the house arrest period for force fetching with Rose. She is so scatter brain and so sensitive lately that I am really not sure what to work with her during this time.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Went to a different training place this weekend with Darcy (Rose is in full heat completely scatter brain and bleeding everywhere). Darcy did not take the duck on the ground so we moved to water and got her to take it and bring it to shore. Moved back on the ground and she did great three times on short single retrieves. At the end of the day we did more water retrieves and got her to bring it out of the water. After everyone left, they had some ducks that were going to be thrown away so we practiced more with ducks. 
Came home, my daughter informed me that Rose was howling at the door for us so I decided to take the wings and practice with her a bit. First throw she did not bring it back. I made her take it and heel with me around the house, down in the basement until I took it from her. I threw it again and she went and got it. Then I lined them both and worked on with the wings down the hallway.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

wow, nice water!!


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Yah, very nice water!

Took Lucy duck hunting on Saturday. Cody handled the shotgun and I managed the pup. Left the boys at home, didn't want to manage 3 dogs. Lucy was super well mannered. Cody couldn't believe how well she heeled and recalled. Didn't hit the ecollar button once. We didn't kill any ducks, we only saw eagles, ravens and magpies. Next time we'll take some frozen ducks to throw and fire the shotgun, to give Lucy the experience. We spent a lot of time watching the eagles to see what and where they were hunting. It seemed obvious they were hunting ducks too. One was sitting in a tree drying it's feathers, so someone got some dinner. Couldn't find any carcasses under the trees, so we weren't sure where they were eating the ducks.

The photo is where we parked. As you can see we have NO SNOW.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Maybe instead of force fetch I can just thaw all three ducks that we have in the freezer and put them in every corner of the house! :--sitnky: Or maybe just the wingless duck. I really want her to pick up the ducks before the next training session on Dec 1st. I would hope her heat will be over by then and maybe we can get a week of training if her heat lasts 21 days - considering her heat started on Nov 3rd - the day we were at training.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Claudia,
Did I understand you correctly that Rose won't pick up ducks? Did I miss something? In my group with dogs that won't pick up ducks, we use pigeons. They seem to be willing to pick up a pigeon most of the time. Do you toss the bird and drag it around to entice her?

As for games you can play on heat cycle, we harness Lucy up to the mountain bike and take her down the trails. She gets lots of exercise and is moving too fast to say hi to any of the boys. 

Forced fetch will make it all come together. I think MOP did that with her girl to get her to pick up pigeons. Since I've never had that problem, I'm not totally sure how to fix it.

Lucy's littermate Cali won another BOW in conformation again yesterday and she finished her RN on the same weekend. But hey I got the bird dog so that's better right?


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Stacey, I thought I had the pigeon under control. When we went to the training place last weekend she did not take the duck though. When we got home I cut the wings and put it in her mouth and then she took it once. I tried again this past weekend and at first again did not take it and then she took it. I planned wrong as always - I was going to work with her on Force Fetch during her heat. But she is so scatter brained and sensitive I think it will do more damage than help. I keep on thinking of ways to keep on training somehow and gain something during these 3 to 4 weeks.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

You can't go wrong doing obedience during a heat cycle. You can always relax and let the time pass. Lucy went into her first heat at 15 months in Oct. I thought it would last forever.

Forced fetch I've heard called the ultimate fix since it cures many ills. Lucy took 2 months to finish. She was a tough candidate, I thought we'd never be done. I have a friend that did it for me. I followed up at home. I'm still doing force to pile though with an ear pinch. Lucy absolutely hates bumpers and will only pick them up because of forced fetch. Have you ever done FF training?


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Nope, never done it. Read and watched you tube videos. Can you tell I am nervous about it!?


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

I used Connie Cleveland's method. You can buy her DVD on her website. I attended one of her seminars and watcher her do it in person. Then the woman that helped me showed me how to do it. After watching the DVD's and seeing it in person, I still was terrible at it, so my friend basically did it all. There is a system definitely and I am absolutely no expert. All I know is I couldn't figure it out on my own and I was there for every session. All I can say is, I wouldn't want to have to do it if I was a dog. You have to have great timing and understand how to end the session on a productive note.


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

I did indeed ff but we used ducks not pigeons. We didn't use anything for a long time though. In fact, I'm not familiar with any processes except how my trainer taught me to do it. The first two weeks we didn't use any pressure at all, it was all just putting this foamy thing in her mouth. I did it alone in the house several times a day and I did it in steps which my trainer identified as A, B, C ect. He would say do A for a few times then go to B or whatever that day. It was a very private experience between me and Katniss. It is hard to explain. I did it in a quiet place and there was a lot of petting and calming talk to her. I was building her trust I guess. I couldn't have done the whole thing on my own without my trainer, like it I watched a video or something. I didn't want anything to go wrong. AT the end it was very hard on me but once it was done it is hardly ever brought up again.


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## canismajor (May 1, 2011)

I respect the concept of force fetch, though I haven't followed through with the process with any of my three Goldens. A few preliminary jabs, then realized it wasn't my style. 

One of my dogs (a completely honest fellow who enjoyed bumpers) was a bit repulsed by ducks initially, and after a few refusals I realized I was going to have a problem if I didn't address the refusals pronto. I used jealousy, and it worked a charm.

I ran one dog on a juicy mark, and made the potential problem child watch. He was contained in a soft-sided crate half way down the mark. I moved the crate closer to the fall the second time, and made sure he could see what was going on. He 'lost it' when he realized he was missing out on getting the ducks, and has been completely reliable since -- he certainly loves his birds, and has never failed me. 

With my dogs, I work through how to pick up and hold a duck with praise and treats and absolutely no nonsense allowed a number of times -- it works well for me. To create jealousy in a training situation, I don't believe in tethering to a collar at the line on land or water, simply because my dogs might be injured on take-off. I once considered using a harness, but really prefer a psychological approach. For example, in the crate scenario, I hoped the isolation factor would work for me -- "Hey! What the heck am I doing out here stuck in a crate in no man's land? GAME CHANGE!" 

It's also important not to use skanky birds initially. Force fetch means that there is only one option: pick it up, no matter what. But why not start out with a fresh or well-thawed specimen in order to establish the desire to comply with that one option?

I'm not suggesting that this little strategy replaces force fetch, but it might be an additional thing to try with Rose. Placing the crate in the middle of the action, well away from the line was key in building the desire to be fully in the game, which to my mind means picking up a bird in one smooth motion, and holding and delivering it respectfully. 

Just a suggestion here -- I am no field expert but my methods work well for me at the junior and intermediate levels at which I prefer to train.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I prefer the term "compulsive retrieve" to "force fetch", lol


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Barb,
Excellent thought. That's really all we want right? Every dog is different. Some need varying amounts of compulsive retrieve training for various reasons. My boy Reilly only needs a bit of help with hold. Lucy needed to be shown that she has to bring back anything not just birds. Then Hunter, well he's just hopeless and we're just happy he showed interest. It depends on your goals and your dogs needs. Lucy is the only dog I've done that type of training with. It's hard and unpleasant. Plus there are different levels of compulsive retrieve training. I'm sure Evan could chime in on all this!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I think Evan has left the building.
I do like the term "compulsive retrieve", all kidding aside. Because all we are trying to teach them is that they must go get, pick up, bring back, and hold carefully whatever we tell them to retrieve. How it's taught, how long it takes, etc. really depends on the dog.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Aren't dogs so wonderful to be so trainable! Plus every dog trains differently. Barb you've done a huge variety of training with your dogs. It would be nice to hear how you've gone about compulsive retrieve training.


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## boomers_dawn (Sep 20, 2009)

How is it the middle of November already?

I loved the posts about the high school students getting excited about training their dogs. That's what we need more of.

We're not doing much of anything structured with the clock change, it is now dark before and after work. We had group last weekend, Gladys did good singles and we both screwed up the out of order doubles. Dee Dee did some long singles with silent rethrow for momentum. She comes when called and heels! But doesn't want to give up the bumper. We need to work on hold/heel/out all winter like we did with Gladys.

Oh yeah, I took Gladys hunting one day, we didn't see any birds, one feather tuft in the entire forest, that was unusual. We went one more time, Gladys put up 2 but I wasn't ready the first time and missed the second. Poor Gladys.

I guess I'll be back here sporadically. Stay warm and dry everyone.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

No no, Tito is my first dog that's not just a house pet!!!! I'm a newbie, too!
Teaching Tito the compulsive retrieve was only *hard* in the sense that he's so very willing to pick up anything, anytime, anywhere, we were never sure if he was doing it because he knew he HAD TO, or because he CHOSE TO. Still don't really know. He has a natural hold, so that wasn't an issue, either.
The compulsive retrieve with him was short and sweet. "Tito, take it". "Tito, bring it". That's about it.
We did, however, get him really hot and tired so that he would rather not hold a bumper, and try to get a few ear pinches in. But even then, he didn't mind picking up or holding the bumper.
He's an easy dog. 




Alaska7133 said:


> Aren't dogs so wonderful to be so trainable! Plus every dog trains differently. Barb you've done a huge variety of training with your dogs. It would be nice to hear how you've gone about compulsive retrieve training.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Reilly's pretty much the same way, never an ear pinch. He's just so willing to do anything anytime. Lucy on the other hand took 2 months to get through it. I still have to ear pinch sometimes on force to pile. She really hates bumpers! I've learned to make the session short sweet and to the point and over as quickly as possible and go onto something else with her. I've even tried an e-collar with force to pile to try to get her to understand what I wanted using a Pat Nolan method. But she just resists so much. I'll be so happy when she's over it. She doesn't even chase a tennis ball, all she wants is birds. Crazy little girl.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

It's cold today but we are headed for training!


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

In my limited experience, dogs who don't respond well to an ear pinch (stoic) do very very well with collar fetch. For whatever reason they understand it much better. The timing and feel for collar fetch has to be much better than with an ear pinch though. I could not get off of ear pinch fast enough with Slater, collar fetch did wonders.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Annie,
Good to know. I only tried the collar fetch once. I just downloaded Pat Nolan's e-collar book discussing the collar method. I'll read it and see if I can figure it out better. But you're right timing is everything and I'm terrible at it. Did you use Pat's method?

We're back to Attention class tonight. I've signed up for the next 6 weeks of Attention Responsibility.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

No I haven't read/seen any of Pat Nolan's material. Rick Stawski has awesome videos, inexpensive, that have really great instruction on collar fetch to pilework. Lardy is my go-to guy for progression.
Barb, is Evan no longer on the board or something?


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Here's Pat's stuff: Maryland Dog Trainer - Pat Nolan | Retriever Training for Gun Dogs and Competition


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

It was freezing today but we trained anyway. We set up a quad followed by a blind. It is really nice to see a retriever's memory at work. 

We also helped a newcomer who has a nice looking dog with good drive.


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## PalouseDogs (Aug 14, 2013)

Windy and cold here today, but I had a bored poodle and a bored golden wrestling in the living room, so during a break in the rain, I took the golden out to do a casting drill described by Howard Niemi in this RTF thread: Carrying lines on blinds
My yard is just big enough to do a reasonable approximation of the drill if I shorten up the Over piles. 

Because of the wind and cold, I did the drill without the over piles. It started sleeting by the end of the 10 minutes or so it took to do the drill. We went back inside the two youngsters recommenced the wrestling in the living room.

Maple is having trouble distinguishing between similar casts, like the difference between a left angle back and a left straight back, so I think I'm going to try drastically simplifying to two similar casts in each session and work on getting her to distinguish between each pair.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Kelly,
I wasn't sure if you had heard, Howard died a few days ago. He died at home, not sure why. He did not have a family, except for his dogs. You might want to collect up any of his threads you thought interesting and save them.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

We trained Friday. I was late in meeting up with my group because Buffy and I had an OB lesson.

Our field setup: A quad. Then after a rest, a cold blind.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Wow a Quad! I tried a triple on water last summer with Lucy, but I think she was too young. So we went back to doubles on water and land which I can throw fairly close together. But a quad, that's impressive. What was the distance for each and how far apart from each other were they? What was the terrain?


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

I took a duck out of the freezer a bit too late (11am) and by 4pm it was still frozen. So we put the duck back in the freezer and I injected the mallard duck dummies with duck scent, put the scent with a paper towel on several canvas dummies and on one of the dummies I put the pheasant feathers I got last Christmas. I left them all behind the pet gate in the living room so the two Bozos can small them. Worked Rose on three singles and three doubles and worked Darcy on one single and several doubles (she need the double practice more than Rose). Rose is still in heat and a little slower than usual (she normally flies to them) but she did not budge at any of the bumpers including the feathered one. 
Darcy is more and more energetic every day. I have to admit that it takes a lot to make a flat coated retriever tired. She did good, she is starting to get the concept of doubles. Also no problems with the feathered bumper.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Alaska7133 said:


> Wow a Quad! I tried a triple on water last summer with Lucy, but I think she was too young. So we went back to doubles on water and land which I can throw fairly close together. But a quad, that's impressive. What was the distance for each and how far apart from each other were they? What was the terrain?


It may not be that impressive. We are at the teaching stage in a field with slight hills and short grass. We even did a poison bird with Buffy while she ran the quad. I didn't know it was coming. These are what I call hunt test distances, 50 to 130 yards, one retiring gun. For us it's perfect, I am always doing checkdown drills with Buffy. She just wants to run. The last long mark I did for her was about 300 yards (long for us) but that doesn't help us, she can easily over run the shorter ones.

The blind was a true cold blind, hidden behind a log, maybe 80 yards. That is what impressed me because she took off like she was running a mark.

I must thank my mentor Guy Fornuto. He has us do stuff that I would never do if left to my own devices.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Being that I have a test in a few weeks I've been back field training 

My two local clubs : Mid-Florida Golden REtriever Club (AKC) and Central Florida Hunting Retriever Club (UKC) are holding a combined test on December 7/8. Junior, Senior, Started and Seasoned both days, one Master over the two days (60 dog limit) and two flights of Finished both days. All on the same grounds and you can run both AKC & UKC the same weekend. How cool is that? 
Slater has no Finished passes and Fisher needs one.
I have come to the distinct realization that Fisher is becoming hard of hearing. Half the time he doesn't hear my whistle on a blind  Trying to run him on blinds is a frustrating endeavor for both of us. He either lines it or I spend the whole time blowing my whistle at the top of my lungs or yelling HEYHEYHEY to get his attention. I've noticed in the house he will sometimes not hear me the first time I talk to him, so I don't think it's just behavioral. It sucks because I know he could pass the last finished test he needs for the title, but I don't want to waste my money and get frustrated at him during training just for that. He's done everything I've ever wanted, and more. What he really likes is to run around with his bumper while we set up and pick up in training, run some land marks, and I plan on hiding some live birds for him in the woods or heavy cover for him to find. We had a flyer get loose in training one time and was lost in the woods for about an hour, 15 minutes of hunting and Fisher had tracked it 100 yards away, under a barb wire fence and chased it down. It was like the highlight of his life! Anyways so I didn't enter Fisher in the test.
Slater is in Finished and the break in training was good. He has been a rock star in training these past few times. 
Yesterday we had a really fun session, we set up what might be called W drill or maybe Chinese drill but we set up 5 bumper piles with white stakes, 30-70 yards away in a W pattern, but in the dried up training pond so the three shorter blinds were on top of "fingers" and the two longer one were at the inside of "coves." There was a puddle of lunging water in the middle. We had 3 handlers and 5 dogs run this one, and would have two dogs at once at the line, one would run two blinds, then the next dog would run two blinds, etc. GREAT for lining, line manners & communication, and attrition handling. Then we just threw walking singles on land, with long tufty cover, again two dogs at a time so one had to honor while the next one picked up his mark (3 handlers, 7 dogs). The weather was the coldest we've had all year, 55º, sunny and windy. The dogs had a GREAT time!!!


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Wow, nice to have HT's in the winter, ours end in late Aug. 

Lucy and Reilly have only been doing off leash manners and off leashing heeling practice every day. I figure they can't do enough of that. I want them to be steady, so we're trying harder. Lucy has started chattering her jaws like Reilly when she's excited about a retrieve. Silly dogs! My husband Cody has been running Lucy 15 or 20 miles at a stretch on his snow bike. She passes him on the curves and he passes her on the down hills. She's very fast and strong, I hope that reflects on longer retrieves. This Thanksgiving weekend I'm planning on spending the time catching up on DVD's and books for training. 

I've got Lucy in a show ring handling class. I'd like a Ch in front of her name with a hunt test title. She's very muscular and looks in great shape. Not sure if that will convert in a show ring win, but let's hope. Next show is the end of January.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

This week Buffy and I are working two continental shoots (tower shoots). She will get plenty of work, no less than 40 retrieves each time, up o 100 retrieves.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

What's a continental or tower shoot? How far are the retrieves? Sounds like Buffy will be a busy girl!


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Continental Pheasant Shoots

"Pheasant shoots are great for large groups whether they are a family or a corporate group. Continental shoots are also great for rainy days when the quail will not fly. This type of shoot is conducted in one of the plantation’s fields with a 60 foot high tower in the center of a circle of 12 shooting stands that are about 150 yards away from the tower and about 50 yards from each other with one or two shooters in each stand. When a signal is given from the tower pheasants are released from the tower and fly towards the stands. After 10 to 12 birds are released another signal is given and the shooters move clockwise to the next stand. This process is continued until all of 300 birds have been released."


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Alaska7133 said:


> What's a continental or tower shoot? How far are the retrieves? Sounds like Buffy will be a busy girl!





Claudia M said:


> Continental Pheasant Shoots
> 
> "Pheasant shoots are great for large groups whether they are a family or a corporate group. Continental shoots are also great for rainy days when the quail will not fly. This type of shoot is conducted in one of the plantation’s fields with a 60 foot high tower in the center of a circle of 12 shooting stands that are about 150 yards away from the tower and about 50 yards from each other with one or two shooters in each stand. When a signal is given from the tower pheasants are released from the tower and fly towards the stands. After 10 to 12 birds are released another signal is given and the shooters move clockwise to the next stand. This process is continued until all of 300 birds have been released."


Our continental shoots are a little different. The birds are thrown from a small hill. This is surrounded by thick woods, scrub oak and some pines. The hill is surrounded by 12 stations, two guns to a station. Each dog/handler covers the halves of two adjacent stations (team 1 covers half of stand 1 and half of stand 2). There are several birds thrown throughout the day. Eight hundred birds is the minimum. Plenty of birds are missed. Typically, both ducks and pheasants are thrown. A horn is blown when it is time for the guns to rotate, dog/handler stays in one spot. Mid morning we take a break for soup, garlic bread, coffee and cookies. Then we return to a new position to finish the shoot.

The cover varies from the thick woods in front of us to clear to weedy fields, streams, bog. The retrieves will vary from 10 yards to 30 yards to over a hundred yards. I actually sent Buffy for a winged pheasant, 30 yards, when it got up and flew off and touch down, typical for a winged bird. I watched Buffy go maybe 200+ yards, chase that bird up into woods, get it and return through stream and swamp. The minimum amount of retrieves she will get is 35 birds. I have stopped at 100 because it then becomes too much. And Buffy runs out at top speed and is the type of dog that returns at the same speed, eager to come to heel for the next retrieve.

Although this is time for the dogs to have a ball, I use it for some training of steadiness and honoring. Although I may lighten up on some things I absolutely maintain high standards for steadiness and delivery to hand. I never forget to thank the owner. I pay $25 for each flyer at a training session. If we get only 35 birds I consider that a dollar value of $875 at these shoots. The experience for the dog is invaluable.

Have a little problem with vocalization from your dog? Perfect opportunity to work on this. NOISE MEANS NO BIRD FOR YOU! Of course this is best started in training and reinforced here.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

I hope to get some video of these shoots. If I do, I will try to post them.

There is another area that does what I call an estate shoot. They actually have beaters go through the fields on an estate. The have a real gamekeeper and this is a true estate shoot. Shoots have been done where each gun has a pair of doubles and has a person reloading his guns for him. I am waiting for one of these shoots.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

I have a friend from rural northern England. Her siblings would be paid to be bush beaters for shoots back there. They didn't use dogs for retrieves, just the kids that were bush beating. So the kids would shake the bush to get the birds to fly, then run out and grab the shot bird. Not exactly safe I think!


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

62º and sunny --- off to field train!!!!


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Wow how nice! What are you working on this long weekend?

-8F here 9:45 and the sun just came up. Plenty of new snow this week. Planning on walking force fetch and mini piles this morning. We can only go so long on bumpers before they get pretty coated with ice from the drool. Been taking the opportunity to watch training DVDs. I guess we'll save swim by for late May. It was fun to watch the videos with Lucy. Every gunshot she heard she would run to the TV screen looking for the bird. She just sat and watched for an hour T drills. I hope she retained something, what do you think?


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

we've not done anything lately besides some stretch out marks. My husband is home for ten days before he deploys so we've been spending lots of time doing a bunch of nothing. The dogs are bored but they'll live!


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## TrailDogs (Aug 15, 2011)

We went to a pheasant shoot today. All thoughts of being a trained dog went out the window for at least the first hour.
She had the time of her life chasing birds all day.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

The boys are deer hunting and the girls are fox hunting in the back yard. We have been taking the outdoor cat indoors at night and she hates it (so she meows all night long and no one can sleep). Since Rose is done with the heat I decided to take the duck out. Darcy was completely excited about it. Rose not so much. So I "played" take it and leave it with Darcy while Rose was behind the pet gate. Well, she wanted to "play" too. Then we went outside and put Rose in the kennel and dropped the duck right in front of the kennel for Darcy to retrieve. Then it was Rose's turn and she brought it back all three times. Not with the same enthusiasm as Darcy but she did it. She did show enthusiasm as a flock of geese flew above us and she started chasing them while Darcy was running like a lunatic all over the yard looking for the duck. WOW - I think I have two dysfunctional dogs!


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Yesterday we had a large group (10 dogs I think) and not enough time to do much of anything. Set up a triple in the water and a blind. Slater didn't see the first bird of the triple so I sent him on it last as a blind and he lined it. The most productive thing was someone brought an 870 so I was able to shoot at both the marks and as the honor dog, something that doesn't happen enough. We're training again tomorrow. The weather is AMAZING....


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Last winter I had no problem training in the cold, it didn't seem to bother me much. It's funny about the cold though, some years you just never seem to warm up, other years it doesn't bother you at all. This year I can't seem to get warm. -13F yesterday afternoon and I just couldn't get motivated. Poor dogs. Plus we're down to 6 hours of daylight with the sun so low on the horizon that most houses are not in direct sunlight for a couple of months. Crispy clear weather that makes you see for miles and miles. I have no idea what they do in Fairbanks where they get real winter, weeks go by with the high only being -35F. 

We do have a new sport here that is more popular now than cross country skiing - snow biking. My husband races them. Great training for he puppy. He takes her for 15-20 miles at night down the trails. They love it. Good cardio for the puppy.

But I look at Lucy and swimming. She gets so little swim time. Now I know why anyone serious sends their dogs down to the states for training. Water access is huge 3-4 months of open water per year doesn't get it. It would be fun to travel down to FL or TX for water and birds we don't have up here. Lucy has never seen a pheasant! I wonder if she would snatch them out of the air like she does the robins?

This year I'm having a very hard time getting a training group going again. Last year it was easier. Not sure why.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Yikes. We think we have problems with heat and gators. No thanks Stacey I don't know how you do it. The last time I was "cold" it was 19º and I thought I was gonna die.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

This morning frosty off leash walk on Coyote Trail. It was about -15F this morning. The dogs had a great time. So no training today. Tomorrow is supposed to be above 10F, so much more inviting for training. 25 degrees makes a lot of difference.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

WOW That truly looks like a winter wonderland!! 

Today we had a REALLY productive session. Trained with a group total nine dogs including AFC "Copper" owned by the Wattleworths, who own the property. He just finished his AFC about a month ago. Water triple with short left bird ~40 thrown from the shore to an island (there is a channel about 10 yards across between shore & island), middle bird about a 70 yard swim across open water then lots of cover where the bird landed, and an in-your-face breaking bird to the right. The blind as you might guess was down the channel under the arc of the island bird.

This time last year Slater had developed a very weird problem of no-going on long water marks especially if there were other holding blinds up close. I really babied it to get him his last Master leg (why do they develop this stuff when you only need one pass.......). He basically has had the summer off only occasionally doing field training, but now that we have nothing to lose I've decided this is it, you pull that crap you're getting corrected for it, I'm not feeling sorry for you or worrying that I'll ruin you, if that happens then oh well, either way it will be a learning experience. Well about 2 months ago he got a big correction on a water mark with a long entry....he ran as far as the water, looped and hauled azz back to me, big heel-burn-heel, and guess who ran his butt off to get that bumper after that? Today I wanted to run the long, open water swim mark as a single first in case there were any troubles. I sent him, he didn't have a fast water entry but was going, but there was some commotion with the honor dog leaving the line, Slater turned around when he was about 15 yards out into the water, and swam back to me. I said absolutely nothing, didn't move, just watched him. The closer he got to me it was like, oh crap this was a huge mistake, I could read his body language. I heeled forward nick-nick-nick-nick-nick on a high 3, he whined and did border collie crouch and when I sent him he hit the water like a ton of bricks. Swam all the way there straight as an arrow and had a huge hunt but finally got the bird (he was way deep of it and kept hunting and hunting and hunting but eventually found it on his own). I immediately repeated the mark and not only was he VERY focused watching the mark go down but swam out and stepped right on it. YAY
I later came back and ran him on the triple where that long middle bird was the last bird picked, up, and he did PERFECT. SWEET!!!!

Fisher was the last dog to run, I just did the two short marks as singles, he gets up on the island, goes to the back side of it, and freakin flushed two wild ducks! Oh geeze! He swam after them for a while, gave up, got up on the shore, eventually back to the island and found the "real" duck, err, dead duck. ONLY fisher!!! LOL


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