# Ruger's Conformation



## Shellbug

I don't know about conformation but he is a cutie 


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## Eowyn

First off, welcome to the forum! Second off, never ever shave a golden! They need their coats to protect themselves against the sun and other elements, and shaving them can be very harmful to their health. His conformation isn't too bad, although he is more "fieldy" in his build (a little lean for the conformation ring and looks to be on the tall side?). How tall is he? He looks like he has a fair amount of filling out let to do, although hard to say from the picture. Do you have a video of him moving for the show ring? The picture is really and though for assessing conformation. What does his breeder say? He shows promise if he fills out some more though and the show ring experience will be good for him whether or not he is ready.


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## rugersmom

I think I posted in the wrong section earlier, didn't see this one I'm still new to the forum :wave: sorry for the double post! Anyways this is my almost two year old Golden Ruger. We are going to our first show at the end of Feb, what do you all think of his conformation? Please excuse his wonky hair, I shaved him over summer and gave him a "lion cut" which is why its really long up front and short over the rest of his body... hoping that will keep growing before the show...


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## Eowyn

If you ask a mod they can merge the two threads. I already posted on the first one, so wan't repost it on this one too. Good luck for the show though!


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## Tahnee GR

Are you entered in an AKC show? I am doubtful that his hair will have grown back in enough in just a few weeks for him to be competitive or to look his best. Shaving should never be an option for a conformation dog. It can take months for the hair to grow back, especially the feathering.

He is young and looks to need some maturing. His structure does not look bad from the side. There is so much more than looking at a side stacked photo-down and back movement, side gait, head and expression, attitude, etc.

What does his breeder say regarding his readiness? Assuming she competes in conformation, she would be your best bet to evaluate him.

And a Golden should never ever be shaved short. A senior Golden or one not being shown can be cut shorter, or given a cooling stripe up their belly. It can take a very long time for the coat to come back. Looking at your boy, he does not have any feathering at all in front, and the shaving has probably given him an incorrect texture as well, until it has grown out fully.

I would check with your breeder, or the members at your local Golden club, since they can put hands on and feel the things we can't.

Good luck with your boy.


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## Megora

rugersmom said:


> Please excuse his wonky hair, I shaved him over summer and gave him a "lion cut" which is why its really long up front and short over the rest of his body... hoping that will keep growing before the show...


I was going to say the same as Eowyn to never to infinity ever shave their coats. I have friends who are pulling out goldens with particularly good conformation just because they do not have enough hair to be competitive. And that's saying a lot because our area (I believe) tends to be a bit more forgiving re/ coats. 

And all that said - you may want to wait a few more months before showing him, so as to let his coat grow in a lot more to give him a better advantage out there. Unless this is just for fun and gaining experience. 

I'm looking at his nose a bit more - but it could be just the way the light's hitting it. And gosh I'm not the voice of reason here. I don't know it's a shorter stop, longer nose, or not as broad a muzzle as I'm used to seeing. Or I could be all wet here.


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## Tahnee GR

Megora, I think you may looking at the under jaw in the photo. It is really hard to tell in a photo, but it does look like he could use more under jaw but again, hard to say from one angled photo.


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## Brave

Megora said:


> I'm looking at his nose a bit more - but it could be just the way the light's hitting it. And gosh I'm not the voice of reason here. I don't know it's a shorter stop, longer nose, or not as broad a muzzle as I'm used to seeing. Or I could be all wet here.


I'm NO where near even informational about conformation, but the head and nose took me aback. It seems more point-y than I normally see. 

OP - I wish you the best in your show!!


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## rugersmom

Thank you! I really wish I wouldn't have shaved him now! It was over summer when he was swimming every day and would take forever to dry off, that and he had already had one hot spot from being wet and so hairy and I wanted to prevent any others, I was not planning on showing at the time definitely didn't think a show would come up 10 minutes from my house! I definitely will not be shaving him again :uhoh: About him being on the leaner side, my boyfriend has taken up running so he has been running a few miles a day and has slimmed down a lot, will be looking to fix that though. I believe he is actually right at the breed ideal, I measured him to the wither (I'm from the horse world so I believe that is also the correct term for dogs) and he's at 23 inches.


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## CAROLINA MOM

rugersmom said:


> I think I posted in the wrong section earlier, didn't see this one I'm still new to the forum :wave: sorry for the double post! Anyways this is my almost two year old Golden Ruger. We are going to our first show at the end of Feb, what do you all think of his conformation? Please excuse his wonky hair, I shaved him over summer and gave him a "lion cut" which is why its really long up front and short over the rest of his body... hoping that will keep growing before the show...
> View attachment 325938


 I've merged your two threads together in this Conformation Showing Section. 

All the posts will be in the same place now. 

Best of luck to you and your boy-he's a handsome boy.


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## Kmullen

Have you been to a dog show? Who would be handling him? Do you know what Class you would put him in? 

I would suggest putting a little weight on him and working on his coat with a weekly bath and blow dry. I would also do a coat supplement.


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## Megora

I think he's at a good weight. You don't want them overweight.


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## rugersmom

Thanks everyone for the replies I really appreciate it! I have spent ages in the horse showing world but am brand new to the dog showing world. I NEVER would have shaved him if I would have expected to show him!! I was actually starting to train him for duck hunting, which he never really took too, granted I didn't force the issue because he does come from a showing breeder not a performance breeder! I shaved him because he had gotten a nasty hot spot that we shaved at the vets recommendation and I figured that I might as well shave all of him since he spends all day swimming anyways (he was with my boyfriend over summer on a river) and I didn't want him to get another. :uhoh: This show that is coming up is literally ten minutes from my house, it is an AKC show but I figure it will be fun and good experience, they also have therapy dog certifications going on which we will be doing. I don't want to embarrass myself though or be disrespectful to the judges by taking a dog in that isn't show ready! I am really kicking myself now for shaving him because he did have a gorgeous coat, and while he does look a little lean right now (my boyfriend has taken up running with him and he has definitely thinned down in the last couple of weeks) i'm going to start giving him some omega 3's and 6's which should not only help him bulk back up a little but it might also help his coat :crossfing

I did notice after I uploaded the picture that his mouth looked a little wonky, were in Florida and went from 80 to the 30s overnight, he really didn't want to be standing outside with that cold wind blowing and it looks like hes doing something weird with his lips, like uhhhm can you hurry up with this picture thing. Heres a few I just snapped where he doesn't look so weird.


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## rugersmom

kfayard said:


> Have you been to a dog show? Who would be handling him? Do you know what Class you would put him in?
> 
> I would suggest putting a little weight on him and working on his coat with a weekly bath and blow dry. I would also do a coat supplement.


I will be handling him at the show, but I am taking, starting tomorrow, handler classes at the local kennel club. If it ends up that we aren't ready for it, then we aren't ready and we wont do it. I think someone at the kennel club will be able to advise me on what class I should put him in... Thank you for the advise on a weekly bath and blow dry, any recommendation on shampoo or should it not matter?


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## Megora

What a pretty boy - glad you didn't mind what I said about his lip - I couldn't figure out WHAT I was looking at being off.  

IF you get his coat back - it will make him look "fuller" than he does right now. HE doesn't look that much skinnier than my Bert, who is about 68lbs and 23". And don't forget he is still going to be growing out - he still has a "young dog" look to him (all the more obvious because he has no coat).  

It certainly is a huge difference going from horse shows to dog shows.... for horses we clip EVERYTHING.


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## Kmullen

Megora said:


> I think he's at a good weight. You don't want them overweight.


I am not saying he needs to be overweight! But without coat, (IMO he looks a little skinny) I think he needs to put a tad bit of weight on him.


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## Kmullen

rugersmom said:


> I will be handling him at the show, but I am taking, starting tomorrow, handler classes at the local kennel club. If it ends up that we aren't ready for it, then we aren't ready and we wont do it. I think someone at the kennel club will be able to advise me on what class I should put him in... Thank you for the advise on a weekly bath and blow dry, any recommendation on shampoo or should it not matter?


 If this would be your 1st show with him, I would suggest an amateur owner handler class or Am. bred. 

I would not stick him in open.

I like the Isle of Dogs Royal Jelly Shampoo to get coat on.


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## Megora

kfayard said:


> I am not saying he needs to be overweight! But without coat, (IMO he looks a little skinny) I think he needs to put a tad bit of weight on him.


But how much weight would be necessary? Asking to understand better what people look at - not to argue.  

I was looking for too sharp a tuck or any signs of rib bones or backbones - none which he has? He looks lean, but with undercoat and fluff filling in, that won't be so obvious or a bad thing, right?


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## Kmullen

Megora said:


> But how much weight would be necessary? Asking to understand better what people look at - not to argue.
> 
> I was looking for too sharp a tuck or any signs of rib bones or backbones - none which he has? He looks lean, but with undercoat and fluff filling in, that won't be so obvious or a bad thing, right?


If he had coat, it might be a different story. Typically, when mine are losing coat, I bump their food up because they look skinny. When in coat, I bump the food down.

I don't see much coat or undercoat at all IMO(so fluffing IMO would only do so much) if he is running with someone daily, he can not stay on the same amount of food as when he was getting before because more calories are being burned. But really hard to access from these pictures.

I honestly think he needs to be about 3 pounds heavier which will make him appear more "Filled" out and not as quite lanky.

My Cannon is very fit and we bike every day...he is not overweight. I do not like dogs that are overweight. The more weight there is...the more problems will occur when a dog moves.

I am not saying that his weight would not be ideal for agility or hunting, I am just being honest as far as what I see in the show world. 

I just think, for what I am seeing...3 more pounds will not hurt him at all.


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## HiTideGoldens

I would probably put a pound or two on him. Nothing crazy but he does look a little thin to me. 

About the coat.....I would probably wait to show him knowing that you shaved him. Keep going to handling class and working with him and then show him when he's looking a bit more ring ready. My first ring experience was not a good one, even with a dog that was in coat and trained. Some judges are not super friendly, and I would hate for you to have a bad experience if the judge finds it offensive that you brought a dog that was not show ready into the ring. Just my opinion, as always


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## Megora

Thanks Kelli<:

I'm coming from the obedience side of things and with a dog's growing bones + building their ability to jump and move out well, I have obedience people breathing down my neck about both my guys staying lean. And knowing they do gain a bit of weight (between 5 and 10 pounds) between 2 and 3, I hope to keep Bertie lean as well.


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## HiTideGoldens

I think this boy would still be lean if he gained a couple of pounds.  I don't get the impression Kelli is recommending he be impersonating a sausage in the ring!  (We used to call my parents' dog a "sausage dog" because she looked like a sausage from the top down  )


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## Kmullen

Megora said:


> Thanks Kelli<:
> 
> I'm coming from the obedience side of things and with a dog's growing bones + building their ability to jump and move out well, I have obedience people breathing down my neck about both my guys staying lean. And knowing they do gain a bit of weight (between 5 and 10 pounds) between 2 and 3, I hope to keep Bertie lean as well.


 
Trust me I understand! Cannon is doing field work now and I am struggling to keep him lean but be of weight for the show ring.

My fisher x remi puppy is very lean because she is doing obedience, tracking, and agility. I already discussed with her that it would not fly for the breed ring that we will have to try to put a little weight on him.

But, Bertie and Parker are pups. This dog (If I remember correctly is 2) so he is pretty much done growing.


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## Kmullen

rugersmom said:


> View attachment 325914
> 
> 
> This is Ruger my almost two year old Golden. We will be going to our first conformation show in Feb... His hair is still wonky because I shaved him over summer so I'm hoping it continues to grow out until then. Aside from that what do you all think of his conformation?


 If you really really want to show... besides bathing weekly...I would suggest keeping him in the dark when you leave, make sure the room temperatures are cooler, and I would also get a spray bottle and put a little conditioner and water in it and spray him every 2 to 3 days. 

Which show will you be going to?


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## Megora

> so he is pretty much done growing.


I'd expect he's still got maturing to do. He still looks like a young dog, all the more so since he doesn't have fur covering everything up.  

I was looking at the picture of Ruger and seeing where he'd have ruff and belly fur and a lot more coverage on his back and sides - and it would make up for the padding of fat that he doesn't have. 

I do get what you are saying - and again, I'm asking questions while trying to understand what people are looking for.


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## rugersmom

kfayard said:


> If you really really want to show... besides bathing weekly...I would suggest keeping him in the dark when you leave, make sure the room temperatures are cooler, and I would also get a spray bottle and put a little conditioner and water in it and spray him every 2 to 3 days.
> 
> Which show will you be going to?


Okay, will do and what type of conditioner any specific type? It's an AKC show in Tallahassee FL at the end of February. Literally ten minutes from my house. I found it while looking up where to get him certified as a therapy dog and therapy dogs international will be at that show and that's really what got me excited about showing him. It is so close to my house and not a huge commitment so I figured we could test out the waters to see if it's something we'd like to do. I don't want to offend the judges or make a bad impression on anyone so if it isn't super common for people to go just to get experience I wont do it. Coming from the horse showing world, it is very common to go to shows not necessarily to win but to get experience for when you are ready to go and be competitive (which I am hoping he will be once his hair comes back in). I am hoping for it to be a fun and enjoyable weekend where we can learn a lot and make some friends as well but I am not so sure now...


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## Kmullen

rugersmom said:


> Okay, will do and what type of conditioner any specific type? It's an AKC show in Tallahassee FL at the end of February. Literally ten minutes from my house. I found it while looking up where to get him certified as a therapy dog and therapy dogs international will be at that show and that's really what got me excited about showing him. It is so close to my house and not a huge commitment so I figured we could test out the waters to see if it's something we'd like to do. I don't want to offend the judges or make a bad impression on anyone so if it isn't super common for people to go just to get experience I wont do it. Coming from the horse showing world, it is very common to go to shows not necessarily to win but to get experience for when you are ready to go and be competitive (which I am hoping he will be once his hair comes back in). I am hoping for it to be a fun and enjoyable weekend where we can learn a lot and make some friends as well but I am not so sure now...


Oh I might be going to that show!! 

And I buy the mane n tail conditioner plus infusion 23 leave in conditioner and mix it with water.


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## Kmullen

Megora said:


> I'd expect he's still got maturing to do. He still looks like a young dog, all the more so since he doesn't have fur covering everything up.
> 
> I was looking at the picture of Ruger and seeing where he'd have ruff and belly fur and a lot more coverage on his back and sides - and it would make up for the padding of fat that he doesn't have.
> 
> I do get what you are saying - and again, I'm asking questions while trying to understand what people are looking for.


 Oh he absolutely has more maturing to do! Like I said, if he had coat right now, then it might be a whole new ball game.


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## rugersmom

kfayard said:


> Oh I might be going to that show!!
> 
> And I buy the mane n tail conditioner plus infusion 23 leave in conditioner and mix it with water.


You will have to let us know if you end up going! We will definitely be there for the therapy dog certification and even if we don't end up showing i'll be there to watch! I am seriously kicking myself for shaving him... :doh:


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## Conquerergold

I put together a booklet for growing coat for the show ring. It's what has worked for me (and I've been told I could grow hair on a Chinese Crested haha). If you would like a copy, feel free to PM your email address and I can send it to you. Or, if there is enough interest I can put it on my website and send the link.

Cheers
Rob


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## Eowyn

Conquerergold said:


> I put together a booklet for growing coat for the show ring. It's what has worked for me (and I've been told I could grow hair on a Chinese Crested haha). If you would like a copy, feel free to PM your email address and I can send it to you. Or, if there is enough interest I can put it on my website and send the link.
> 
> Cheers
> Rob


I would love a copy.


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## Kmullen

Me three!!


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## Conquerergold

Hopefully this works ;-) 

Here is the link to the Booklet http://conquerergoldens.com/CoatCareBook.pdf

Cheers
Rob


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## K9-Design

I didn't download it but I suspect "MOVE TO CANADA" is probably #1 on the list......


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## annef

That is really good and very different to the preparation of coats in the UK but certainly something to use on a dog that is losing coat. Thank you Annef


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## LJack

Your in luck...many if not most of your horse jargon words transfer right over. It will actually give you a leg up when you read breed standards. Most of them especially the "working" breeds were written by people with livestock. So many new people struggle to learn this like a new language.


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## rugersmom

Thanks conquerergold very interesting read! Any recommendations for what I should do with Ruger's coat? Should I start a similar routine even though we are less than two months out? 

And I am glad to hear that LJack, I figured at least some of the stuff had to be similar since when it comes down to it they all are animals. 

I am going to my first handler class tonight!


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## K9-Design

Hmmmm. Well I love the Tally shows in February. I am going on Thursday. 
If you've never been to an AKC dog show before I HIGHLY suggest not entering and just going to one and spend the whole day watching and walking around and getting a feel for things.
Where did you get Ruger?


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## Alaska7133

Rugersmom,
I would go back to his breeder for help. They can probably help you groom and figure out how to sign up for the show. I'm going to assume you have full registration, right? The handling class will help bunches. Ask for help. Work hard. Its the people that need the training not usually the dog.


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## cazzy

I personally love his head and face. As for showing I wouldn't show a dog that doesn't have a good coat. I am facing the same problem coat wise with one of my females she lost it at end of oct after her season and her feathering isn't quite back on rear legs and tail looks a little weird she is signed up for show next month as well but won't attend if it is correct. But then again that isn't saying much as our goldens don't look the same in the ring






as you can see from the picture this is one of my girls in the ring last august I think you goldens look better coat wise 


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## Alaska7133

I think that's a great suggestion to visit a show first before showing. You can also see if any fun matches are happening in your area. Enter that and see how everything comes together. Sounds like you are in a part of the world where there are a lot of shows to enter.


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## lhowemt

K9-Design said:


> I didn't download it but I suspect "MOVE TO CANADA" is probably #1 on the list......


Our latest pups is one of those "furiners" from Canada. But she's from BC. Love Pearl!


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## Loisiana

I'm another vote for not entering yet, just go and watch first


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## DanaRuns

I think watching a show is a great idea, but this being so close to your house I wouldn't let that discourage you. And, frankly, while I respect your ethic about not offending the judge, in the end, screw the judge. This sport needs more new people. I say, if you want to go and enter, do it. And if the judge takes offense, that's his/her problem. I'd probably enter in Amateur Owner/Handler if you can, or American Bred. I'd definitely stay out of Open.

So long as you're going there for fun and to learn, and not to take the show world by storm, I say go for it. You'll probably meet some good people, too. Just don't be disappointed if Ruger doesn't go Best in Show. 

I'd groom Ruger to the nines, though. Definitely watch some Youtube videos on show grooming a Golden. Every other dog in the ring will have been professionally groomed specifically for the show, and even if Ruger had his full coat he would really stand out if not well-groomed. And grooming him to look his best shows the judge the respect you're talking about.

Let's just make sure of a few things, though:

Ruger is AKC registered, on a full registration? He is intact, and has not been neutered? He's not aggressive toward other dogs or people, and he will let a stranger touch his mouth, ears, front, shoulders, back, rear and genitals without protest? If the answers to those questions are yes, I say enter and go have fun, without expectations. Maybe you'll find a new hobby!


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## Alaska7133

DanaRuns,
you are so right. We need new people. We shouldn't discourage anyone. I was in the ring for the first time last winter. As I entered the ring I told the judge it was my first time. She laughed and said she would think of a really hard pattern for me to run then. We've all been there. I showed a couple of times myself. Then hired a handler. Now I'm back to showing myself. Yes it would be great if you were totally professional. But everyone started somewhere. Personally I like to do our club's show and go's. I like to run with the juniors. I get so much more out of the kids enthusiasm. Get out there and have fun. Remember to smile!


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## HiTideGoldens

I don't think anyone is trying to discourage the OP from getting involved in conformation. My concern is making sure it is a good experience. A judge being rude to a novice owner handler in the ring is not going to encourage further participation in the sport. It happened to me the first time I showed my Jack, and made me not want to show my dog myself initially. I was committed to finishing him, however, and he was finished by a handler. Going into the ring unprepared or feeling like your dog isn't looking his best is not the best way to make an impression, and the fact that the OP is kicking herself (not literally  ) for shaving him means she knows he wouldn't look his best if she enters that show. It also takes time to learn ring procedure and feel confident about showing your dog. That takes practice and handling class is a WONDERFUL place to learn those skills!

I like the suggestion to go to the show, get a lay of the land, watch the dogs, introduce yourself to people, etc. Much less pressure and the next time you go, when you enter your dog, you will have a familiarity with dog shows and not be overwhelmed.


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## Sally's Mom

I had a similar experience to Goldenjackpuppy, only it was at a match. The judge acted like my girl was a hunk of junk... She wouldn't even put her hands on her. This girl went on to get her Can Ch and ten AKC points. It was many more years before I was comfortable showing one of my own dogs thanks to this judge. I still refuse to let my dogs be shown under her... Not worth wasting my money. On the other hand, last year I showed under Ken Mathews at the New England Sporting Specialty...what a kind judge. He treated all competitors with respect. And by the way, my girl discounted by the woman judge as a young dog, still shows in Veterans at a sound 11.5. And she has been BVOSS. 

UKC can be a fun avenue to get experience and confidence!


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## HiTideGoldens

That's funny you say that, I will never again show to my first judge either. He was very rude to me and instead of helping, made me feel awful. He was only nice to me in the winners' class after he saw a well known handler (who ended up finishing my dog) helping me ringside. Somehow then I was "worth" him being kind to me. He will never get an entry from me again though.

I have since been more successful in the ring with my two girls. Now if a judge is rude I just put them on my DNS list and that's that. But in the beginning it's nice to have people and judges be kind. I worry about newbies getting hammered in the ring and it scaring them out of the ring forever.


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## rugersmom

Ruger and I just got back from our first handler class and we had a blast! Everyone was so nice and I learned a lot and we will definitely be back next tuesday, the lady who was teaching the class actually asked if he had been shown by anyone before 

As far as the show is concerned I am going to wait to make my final decision but I am leaning towards competing in the show. I would like to pay to have Ruger professionally groomed (I believe that is a thing I will just have to find someone) so that even if his coat isn't perfect his presentation will be as good as it can and eventually I am sure I will be able to do it myself. With the show being as close to my house as it is, I think it would be silly to not go and use it as practice because even with handler classes I am sure he is still not going to be perfect in his first show and since we are probably going to place last anyways it's as good a time as any to get the first show out of the way so that when his coat is grown out we can travel farther and not have it go bad because he is unexperienced. I am hoping that by having him professionally groomed and turned out as best as possible I will avoid offending anyone or making them feel like I am wasting their time. While this will be my first time showing a dog it wont by any mean be my first time showing an animal so I have had my run ins with rude judges and while I am hoping that it doesn't happen I don't think it will discourage me and Ruger. Today alone I met so many great people that one unpleasant encounter wont deter me from showing. 

And Danaruns he is AKC on full registration, not neutered, very social (too social and friendly actually:uhoh and had everything touched by the lady teaching the class today and he did awesome if I do say so myself


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## gldnboys

Congrats on your wonderful night at handling class! You have a great attitude, too. The conformation world could use more people like you.


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## Tahnee GR

If you are going to have him groomed before the show, do NOT go to your average pet groomer. They will not understand how to groom for the show ring-I have seen some awful stuff done to show dogs by groomers!

Ask at your class to find someone who can do a show groom on a Golden. He doesn't have enough coat right now to get really messed up, but you would be amazed what I have seen some very good pet groomers do to a show dog.


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## gldnboys

Tahnee GR said:


> If you are going to have him groomed before the show, do NOT go to your average pet groomer. They will not understand how to groom for the show ring-I have seen some awful stuff done to show dogs by groomers!
> 
> Ask at your class to find someone who can do a show groom on a Golden. He doesn't have enough coat right now to get really messed up, but you would be amazed what I have seen some very good pet groomers do to a show dog.


Good point! It seems very few pet groomers know how to properly groom a Golden. I've seen some terrible things as well - even for non-show Goldens. Definitely, find someone who grooms Goldens for show. 

When I was just starting out with my first show Golden, I asked a local Golden breeder/handler if she would give me a lesson, i.e. groom my boy for his first show, and talk me through the process as well. It was money very well spent!


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## rugersmom

A quick update because I REALLY appreciated all the responses on this thread. I started a new one with a few details from our first show which was a success.  I took the advice on here (add a few pounds and do your best to work on coat) and I just wanted to share a progress pic... We still have a lot to do as far as coat but it has literally grown inches! And while he did still look a bit naked compared to the other goldens I wasn't embarrassed because I knew to expect that. Right now he is on missing link coat supplement, and I was advised to try melatonin... Any thoughts on that? Anyways here is a progress pic to show the length he's gained, he went swimming and was towel dried yesterday so you guys will have to excuse all the curls and fly aways and the fact that I took this picture all by myself since I'm impatient and didn't want to wait for help.


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## Kmullen

I think he looks much better!! I like Coconut oil by Nutiva or you can buy it at Costco. I also like the Royal Jelly Coat Supplement by Isle of Dogs.

Just keep up with Weekly baths and make sure you can blow dry him completely.


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