# Obedience version of “what are you working on?”



## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

I would love to talk with others training obedience. Pilot and I are working on the Utility exercises. Since neither one of us have ever done it before, we are learning together. He’s getting really good at gloves. We have been working the hardest on go outs and directed jumping. I was putting aerosol cheese on a Stantion but I really didn’t like the results I was getting. He seemed to think the goal was to get the cheese. He wouldn’t do it without the cheese. I’m using a mat now and I like the results much better. I haven’t put go outs and jumping together yet. We have also mixed up the command discrimination for Open B. He seems to get it. We are going to start cleaning up the Open exercises too.

My goal is to get into the Utility ring next year. We’ve been working hard!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I used a blue binder clip on the blue stanchions with Bertie and used cheese initially to get him to learn to look for that clip. Then I continued using the clip but taught him to touch it (do it to get it). And that was the default behavior if I didn't call him off to sit. I gradually faded the binder clip. 


****

Bertie - needs to be entered in trials. I'd like to get his CDX. Probably spring/summer. Was planning on this fall, but he had a back/neck injury that ruined that plan. I'm unsure if I want to do utility after that. He is trained through utility and has done well at fun matches, but a little worried about utility signals. After I added the verbal and shorter distance for the open signals, I found he's less consistent at the full distance utility signals. As in, they were goshawful the last match we did utility and I saw a direct correlation to beginning the open signals. Hurt having them break!

Jovi - have trained all the parts and pieces of open, but need to put that together and raise his jumps to full height (he jumps 20-22" right now, needs to jump 24"). Hope he can be titled through CDX by next winter. 

Glee - have trained foundation for novice on my own. Would like to get him into either privates or classes and seriously prep him for BN or CD (depends on how mature he is) by next fall. 

If privates - I think I'd have to swap Bertie out. More and more I think that is the practical route to go since I'm not teaching Bertie anything new these days. 



Specific things I'm working on -

Bertie - nothing really. We practice everything to keep him polished, but again he's not learning anything new. 

Jovi - I'm working on fronts, finishes, off leash heeling, and halts. Small things that I'm not that happy about are losing 1/2 points on every sit because he's just slightly crooked. Drives me nuts. >.< 

Gleeful - our usual daily run through currently is heeling, position changes, recalls, stacks, stays (sits, downs, stands), take/hold/give for future retrieves, marks, go-touches, and "find it".


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

Thank you for starting this thread Angela! Now that I'm done showing Eevee in conformation for awhile so she can grow up, I'm going to get back Obedience and Rally with both dogs. I think Rocket is genuinely happier (not that he's ever unhappy) when we train regularly. It's just me and him time and we both usually have a blast. Glad that Sunnyside is back to their regular schedule now that we are all done showing for awhile.

Rocket - heeling, heeling, and more heeling. I'd like to get his CD at the February Columbus All-breed shows. Could we Q now? Probably, but I want NICE heeling, not 5 points off heeling. We may need to work on the sit-stay a bit because he's lazy and likes to lay down after about 20 seconds. The other exercises will just need to be refreshed and polished. His fronts are generally wonderful, but the left-finishes in particular could use some fine tuning. Although it's not like it matters which finish you use. I think most people just pick the one that the dog does the best and by best I mean straightest. So I'll be getting my board back out and working on those things. After we hopefully get his CD, we'll go back to work on our RACH. I'm hoping that working on the CD will bring back the engagement that we had before we did 5 Triple Q's in one weekend. Once we get the engagement back, we'll work on being very precise and consistent for all of the Master and Excellent exercises in particular. I kinda wish they would drop Advanced from the RACH requirement because it's very easy compared to Master, but I digress. 

Eevee - We've been focusing so much on conformation lately that I let the Obedience side of things slide a little bit, but we still do drills before meals and stuff. SO, I'm going to work on basically everything but jumping with her over the next several months: straight fronts, finishes to both sides, position changes, pivots, and HEELING of course. I'll be introducing her to the board as well once she understands what all of the exercises are. I need to get her a good obedience collar and leash, since all I have for her right now are conformation things... facepalm... And I may introduce the jump, but keep it at the lowest setting just so she understands what the object is. She is so enthusiastic and happy that I think we will have a lot of fun. She's got drive and energy to spare, so I'm hoping to turn that into good things. Kinda a side note, but she has so much prey drive that she paced and cried for literally AN HOUR the other day because she couldn't go chase whatever animal she saw through the window. Yesterday, she chased literally every leaf that flew across the yard (and caught several, I might add) until I had to use my mom voice to call her in, so we will also be doing lure coursing as soon as it warms back up.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

I use a tennis ball or piece of pvc... there is always something there for her to get. I followed her out to teach her to turn and sit (at first anyway) gratefully Sips was quick to catch on with this part but needed to make sure she sits quickly vs returning or corrections.
I also taught her to go around a cone or bucket.. with a hand signal, she thinks this is fun. Not sure if that helps 
But honestly I started back when she was about 7 wks by putting a piece of kibble on top of a bucket and telling her to "go" so the going out part was already there. 

We haven't graduated to just going out without the "prize" yet. We have not tried to put the jumps into the equation yet either. But here again I began teaching circles at about 8 weeks... this teaches them to pay attention to the hands. Right hand turns one way, left goes the other. This transfers into the direction concept. 

I have several resources that have helped. Connie Cleveland, Janice Gunn & Katherine Zensky. Just bits and pieces from each  I haven't shown in UD yet either... my last girl was ready to compete and suddenly died before we got there and each dog learns differently so the adventure continues for me too.

And thanks guys! Classes are not an option around here and grateful for the encouragement! I haven't been training near as much as I should or need to and this is really good incentive to get back on track. Good luck with all of your goals and love getting new ideas!


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

I forgot to talk about how I taught Rocket the go out, although his isn't as long as a Utility go out. I tried using food and a target, but he was so concerned about the food that he would just start sniffing the entire area near the target and wasn't understanding that the point was to go away from me and stop when told. There's more to it than that, but the gist is that a food target didn't work for us. 

Instead, I started by doing spins in front of a cone. Spin, sit, reward. Spin, sit, reward. Then I took 1 step back and added the "go" with signal. Go, spin, sit, reward. Then I faded the spin and started backing up, one step at a time to just Go, Sit until we got out far enough for a Rally Master go out plus a few extra feet as a factor of safety. I also eventually removed the cone and just sent him to the fence or wall, so now he will do both. Since proximity to the cone matters in Rally, confining the area with boards or something is also a good idea to make sure they go straight. I did not teach him to go around the cone because lots of judges put the cone right up against the ring gating and I have seen dogs confused AF when that happens. Once he got really good at it, I would vary the reward (sometimes I walk to him, sometimes I recall him, sometimes I release to a thrown toy), but the reward always comes from me, never from the target.

I think this method could be directly transferred to Utility for us. I have to go slow on the distance because he starts to get concerned about how far away he is from me. This is something I basically made up/adapted from other methods.


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

I like your ideas. If the mat doesn't work, I'll give them a shot. For whatever reason, if he gets treated in the middle of the exercise he doesn't understand what I want because the food is all he's thinking about. He's extremely food motivated, almost too much. His heel is really coming back nicely after he lost it for a while. OH...my biggest problem is the judge holding the dumbbell throughout the entire run! It's a completely foreign concept to him. 



Pilot's favorite thing is obedience. He's very good considering his handler needs a lot of work! I took private lessons for a while and I had to learn how to heel. LOL He got his CCA so he never has to do conformation again. 



Winx is done with obedience. I promised to put a CDX on her so I did that. She just isn't real excited about it. I think it's hard for her to control herself. She loves agility though. I really need to get her out in the field. She's 1 field point away from the VC. 



I'm thinking about entering Pilot in Open B. Just to keep him in the ring. I'm taking him to Queen City for run-thrus on Sunday. Maybe....BIG maybe I'll enter him in Columbus All Breed. If he does well at run-thrus, Dayton for sure. 



I'm using a mixture of Connie Cleveland and Matthew Twitty methods. I really want to go to his seminar again next year and get a working spot.I really wish 



I understood the nuances of the rules better on the upper levels. I've read them over and over again. People say things and get me all confused about when points start counting. 



And my latest venture.....I am teaching a Novice class in January...ACK!


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## JulesAK (Jun 6, 2010)

We are in the extreme beginning stages so will follow along and see how others are doing. My hope is for Maggie to get her CGC. Baby steps for us!

Jules


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

Boss came in and interrupted my typing....haha! For Obedience, I use a chain slip collar and a braided leather leash that I bought from Paws and Tails. It's 3 feet long. I just used a plain nylon leash for those embarrassing Novice stays. Not because he was bad....because they are stupid!


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Riot is really coming along except for heeling. His Open work is inconsistent. Seems like every time in the ring he does something wrong different than the last time. Which is just inexperience on both our parts. On Utility we’re just fine on gloves, directed jumping, go outs. He mainly work on articles. We started working on tracking this year, so I’m hoping that he understands more about using his nose to find my scent. I’m hoping for carryover into articles. Heeling is always a work in progress. Getting better treats is helping. Since he’s a field trial dog, he can repeat the same exercise over and over again and not get bored. But it also means he’s impulsive and inconsistent. The good and the bad. He’s also super fast, which makes him fun to watch. But sometimes he goes around a jump, as soon as he starts to go around, I say sit, then send him back, then over the jump. Which is annoying that I have to fix it. But he will sit and go back when I tell him. I’ve gone back to sitting him on the other side of the jump and calling him to me, and then he’s making eye contact. We’ll get there eventually.


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## Laurie (Sep 20, 2009)

Ledger and I are currently working on Open and Utility exercises. He obtained his CD back in October. 

He knows the Open exercises and will be going for our first leg in a couple of weeks and will also be showing in conformation the same weekend. He needs 6 points for his Grand Championship.

We have finally turned the corner on go outs. I tried training go outs using food at the other end but like some of you, I wasn't liking the results. He just kept looking for the food. I ended up simply tapping the wall (he was going out to), starting close to the wall and telling him to "go out". We gradually moved back a bit each session. Eventually I phased out the tapping of the wall and just asked for the go out. He already knew "sit" so the sit part was fairly simple and he had already learned the directed jumping portion so we just started putting it together. I also use broad jump boards as a guide so he would go out straight. When I remove them, he still occasionally runs to the one side but we have time to work on that before he trials in utility, hopefully next spring. 

Scent articles are coming along. He also does scent detection work so was getting confused. Plus he thought the articles were all about retrieving so would run out, grab one and bring it back. I ended up resorting to the tie down method and after a couple of weeks doing that, he has progressed well. 

We also need to work on our heeling. He starts out well but ends up losing focus part way through our pattern. Most of our deductions are from heeling. 

Ledger is a very high energy boy so getting him to settle down can sometimes be difficult! I'm still trying to determine the best way to deal with him during the "in between" exercises while in the ring. I don't want him over the top but don't want to flatten his spirit either. Novice was easier as he was on leash but now in Open, it's a different story.

I'm very pleased with his training attitude and his joy in doing obedience; actually he finds joy in everything we do. He's a wonderful training partner. He's only 2 years old so we have plenty of time to work things out.


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## myluckypenny (Nov 29, 2016)

Alaska7133 said:


> Since he’s a field trial dog, he can repeat the same exercise over and over again and not get bored. But it also means he’s impulsive and inconsistent. The good and the bad.


I just have to chime in and say that this really hit a note with me! I couldn't think of the best way to describe Rio in training and impulsive is a great word. He can train for a LONG time unlike Fisher who does best with short sessions. But Fisher is much more of a thinker than Rio, who just wants to do everything fast. Both have their perks and downfalls  

To contribute to this thread, I'm trying to do some of Rio's training with the knowledge that once we hit our field goals I do want to put obedience titles on him. He basically has no stay, so that needs to be a priority :grin2: Heeling I will only focus on position of his body, not his head as I don't really want him looking up at me for field work. 

Fisher, I'd really like to get his CD so I need to get crackin. He already has major points, and I could get his JH easily. Then a CD would hopefully knock off the performance piece of his versatility title.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Thanks for the topic 

Faelan & Towhee are retired from obedience so rally excellent & master are possibilities.

Brady will be earning his UD

Aedan will be training & possibly showing for Open & Utility & agility.

Finch has 2 exciting potential breeding boys who will be being contacted shortly. Her concentration will be rally (intermediate & advanced) to tighten up her heeling & familiarize her with the ring. She will be learning her exercises (currently learning pieces) for Open & Utility but I have no plans on entering her until 2021. Rally is more probable for 2020


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Go Outs:


I use many things with all of the dogs.


The Go Out is made up of
> Send - straight and fast and until told to sit

> Turn & Sit - Tight turn and fast sit without forward movement
> Wait until sent and wait until directed which jump


Dogs follow their nose so the send

: A fast and straight setup -- tail/spine/nose all in a straight line to the Go Out spot
: A strong mark (follow that nose)
: Keep going
-- I use zen bowls, food, hula hoop, acrylic dowels, sit box platform, cones etc
-- Sometimes I run with them
-- Sometimes I toss food or a toy over them as they are running(also proofing)
-- I practice to stanchions, trees, light poles, telephone poles, gating etc



The sit is started in the house in a corner, then gradually moved outside to hula hoop, platform etc


The marking is started using some type of target or even food tosses or send to toys etc. I want their head and eyes to almost pull a border collie gaze


I do not tend to use blank walls although as they near ring ready state I will at drop ins with no target; by this time they have generally learned to follow their nose direction.


Hope the above might give you ideas  BTW: With Towhee I accepted arcing since that is what she does. My other dogs normally go straight and so that is their expected behaviour


Don't forget that they also need to learn to take he jump from short go outs, angled go Outs and from a standing position ( just points off all of them so you can still qualify if your dog can take the directed jump)


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Sharon - before I began doing privates, I'd never heard of doing marks. Or maybe I did and just shrugged that off as something that did not apply. 

With Bertie it helped SO MUCH when refining what I wanted in a go-out. 

With Jovi - I'm not 100% seeing what I want from him. I'm not sure if I schlepped through the process of teaching the mark, but he doesn't get that border collie hunch the way Bertie does. 

Working with Glee - it's still in unrelated pieces at this point...

I'm teaching position changes separately.

I'm teaching toss position changes separately (I want him to get faster with those)

I'm teaching the mark-GO separately.

I'm teaching the go-touch separately. I'm not currently putting cheese on anything - but if I were introducing in a situation where he has to go 20-30 feet in a straight line, I probably would put something out there like the binder clip to encourage him to go very straight and not play "guess the stanchion" games. 

And he's just starting to be at that phase where I need to start adding a couple pieces together. Maybe either a mark-go touch or calling a sit after he has touched the door. 

Going and touching is very easy, so as a default for earning easy treats he will keep running to the usual target spots (door in our foyer, door at the end of the upstairs hallway) and nosing or even jumping up and pawing the door. 

And that's something I need to talk to my trainers about - since most people are training the dogs to paw the stanchions vs nose touch. For once I have a pup who is doing both behaviors.


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

JulesAK said:


> We are in the extreme beginning stages so will follow along and see how others are doing. My hope is for Maggie to get her CGC. Baby steps for us!
> 
> Jules


That’s great Jules! That’s where we all started!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

ArkansasGold said:


> Thank you for starting this thread Angela! Now that I'm done showing Eevee in conformation for awhile so she can grow up....


Just gotta say something since it's bothering me this evening... I just found out about the "puppy of achievement" points? 

Jovi apparently earned 9 points before he aged out of the puppy classes. Pups can earn points in the 4-6 months puppy classes or by winning classes in 6-12 competition. He got all his points from winning regular classes. 10 points are needed to get the title. Heheh. I'm literally kicking myself because if I'd known there was a random title involved, I might have entered him in a couple extra shows this summer! :laugh: I feel like a nerd about this, but it bothers me that we were off by just 1 point. 

What I'm finding is the puppies just need to win their classes in order to get points towards that certificate.


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

Megora said:


> Just gotta say something since it's bothering me this evening... I just found out about the "puppy of achievement" points?
> 
> Jovi apparently earned 9 points before he aged out of the puppy classes. Pups can earn points in the 4-6 months puppy classes or by winning classes in 6-12 competition. He got all his points from winning regular classes. 10 points are needed to get the title. Heheh. I'm literally kicking myself because if I'd known there was a random title involved, I might have entered him in a couple extra shows this summer! :laugh: I feel like a nerd about this, but it bothers me that we were off by just 1 point.
> 
> What I'm finding is the puppies just need to win their classes in order to get points towards that certificate.


I don’t think it’s a title. It’s just a certificate like the Achiever Dog was. I challenged myself to get Achiever Dog on Pilot before he turned a year old. Missed it by a few weeks. It was a fun puppy goal.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Oh - yep. Certificate. . 

The funny thing was Bertie got the achiever dog thing and I thought it was the stupidest thing. I think they got rid of it (?) because everyone else had the same negative impression of the program. I'm sure I probably would have rolled my eyes about a POA cert coming in the mail, but missing it by 1 point bugs me!


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

Megora said:


> ArkansasGold said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you for starting this thread Angela! Now that I'm done showing Eevee in conformation for awhile so she can grow up....
> ...


Eevee has 5 points toward the POA. She got 1 from BPUP and 4 from winning her 6-9 classes, but I’m taking a break to let her grow up, so she won’t end up finishing it. She just turned 9 months old, so is in a weird stage. She’s significantly bigger than the younger puppies in 6-9, but has lost most of her puppy coat. We moved up to 9-12 the last day of the Columbus cluster and got second to a dog that was 1-day shy of her birthday (she is a very, very nice bitch, so I didn’t mind losing to her). 

So anyway, for all-breed judges, she just wasn’t fluffy enough this last go round. If it was an actual title, I would have shown her more in BPUP, but it’s not worth continuing to show in 9-12 to get it. Besides, that cluster made me miss Obedience and Rally something awful. Lol


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Yeah, the BC hunch is pretty much my signal that my dog is 'locked and loaded' on the Go Out spot 


I originally thought it was a waste of time until I fully realized how much time it saves me running with my dog, and gives me more rewarding opportunities -- fewer errors  Finch is starting the Lock n Load at about 5-6 feet, has her tight turn & sit but I am going slow with her ... for example her jumps for DJ are still at 12 inches and she is still only jumped from the perfect Go Out spot (albeit with food & toys scattered around for distraction). She is only jumped when I have placed her in position but the jumps are now regulation distance apart 


Brady & Aedan have really lovely Go Outs as does my retired boy Faelan -- although all of them need additional work with very crowded backgrounds -- like jumps, pictures, stuffed shelves etc presenting different backdrops that may apply pressure for them. Brady can be a bit slower than I like but he is a steady-state style of worker === his fronts can be amazing as he carefully places his butt just so  He goes at a trot not a run ...





Megora said:


> Sharon - before I began doing privates, I'd never heard of doing marks. Or maybe I did and just shrugged that off as something that did not apply.
> 
> With Bertie it helped SO MUCH when refining what I wanted in a go-out.
> 
> ...


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

As a side note: I do not use a stanchion bang -- too many times I have seen dogs take down the ring LOL and a few times I have been set up and ready to enter when that has happened (big scary noise plus a delay). I do use stanchions but always with at least 3 so they learn it is not always just about the stanchion.

So if you use the touch or bang, may I suggest you proof yourself on when to cue the sit ?? Different backgrounds, footing, types of ring gating? 

FYI: I once had a trial where the ring was close to the woods and the ring gating was unpainted wood -- Faelan was not the only dog who had a tough time finding center but luckily he was well able to jump from offset positions


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

Megora said:


> Oh - yep. Certificate. .
> 
> The funny thing was Bertie got the achiever dog thing and I thought it was the stupidest thing. I think they got rid of it (?) because everyone else had the same negative impression of the program. I'm sure I probably would have rolled my eyes about a POA cert coming in the mail, but missing it by 1 point bugs me!


I think the Achiever Dog was really for New people to get them interested. Many people did think it was silly, but for a puppy goal it was ok. Missing POA by 1 point would bug me too!


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

Well, Pilot did ok at the run thru this weekend. I’m considering entering Dayton just for ring time. He got the CD both times. I didn’t give him enough credit on that one. As I was working with him tonight, I found that my theory with using food is accurate. We practiced go outs to a mat and he nailed it every time. I found that hallway go outs are too much pressure for my sensitive boy. I can work with fading a Mat away. We had been having a hard time learning articles too. I took the food off/out from them and he seemed to be understanding what I wanted. Even with different materials he was getting it. It may take us longer, but on the bright side I won’t have to faze out food.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Abeille said:


> Well, Pilot did ok at the run thru this weekend. I’m considering entering Dayton just for ring time. He got the CD both times. I didn’t give him enough credit on that one. As I was working with him tonight, I found that my theory with using food is accurate. We practiced go outs to a mat and he nailed it every time. I found that hallway go outs are too much pressure for my sensitive boy. I can work with fading a Mat away. We had been having a hard time learning articles too. I took the food off/out from them and he seemed to be understanding what I wanted. Even with different materials he was getting it. It may take us longer, but on the bright side I won’t have to faze out food.



 Take your time and enjoy the journey 


FWIW I have had many excellent mentors over the years, and not one of them (beyond my 1st 2 dogs who were not trained with food) ever eliminated food or play. The dogs know they will be rewarded (food, play, praise etc) but the duration before that reward varies. These are multi OTCh handlers. People serious about Rally and agility as well.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

Sunrise said:


> Take your time and enjoy the journey
> 
> 
> FWIW I have had many excellent mentors over the years, and not one of them (beyond my 1st 2 dogs who were not trained with food) ever eliminated food or play. The dogs know they will be rewarded (food, play, praise etc) but the duration before that reward varies. These are multi OTCh handlers. People serious about Rally and agility as well.


Correct me if I'm wrong here Angela, @Abeille, but what I think we both meant about not using food to teach go outs, was this: If we use food as the target in the initial phase of teaching the behavior, the dog is so concerned about the food that it doesn't understand the point of the go out. The way I initially tried teaching Rocket was to put a single treat on a small square tile and send him to it. He would go and get it, and then would immediately start sniffing the general area looking for another piece of food and it was very hard to get his attention after that - even if I had more food in my hand and offered it to him. (This tile/food method was the method we learned in Rally class from two TOP Rally people, and it worked for other dogs - just not for my extremely food motivated boy.) So, when I took away the food target I started seeing progress. He is of course still rewarded with food and/or play for the doing the correct thing, (and I'm sure Pilot is too) but the food target did not work for us.


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

ArkansasGold said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong here Angela, @Abeille , but what I think we both meant about not using food to teach go outs, was this: If we use food as the target in the initial phase of teaching the behavior, the dog is so concerned about the food that it doesn't understand the point of the go out. The way I initially tried teaching Rocket was to put a single treat on a small square tile and send him to it. He would go and get it, and then would immediately start sniffing the general area looking for another piece of food and it was very hard to get his attention after that - even if I had more food in my hand and offered it to him. (This tile/food method was the method we learned in Rally class from two TOP Rally people, and it worked for other dogs - just not for my extremely food motivated boy.) So, when I took away the food target I started seeing progress. He is of course still rewarded with food and/or play for the doing the correct thing, (and I'm sure Pilot is too) but the food target did not work for us.



Yes! I'm not against using food as the target, it just doesn't work for us. He is always rewarded for a job well done. Thank you for clarifying! I started using "wrong" when he doesn't get something right. Not really a correction, but it's still feedback. That works well for him too. His whole world revolves around making me happy. I keep a tennis ball in my training bag for when he does well. (3 "happy" throws at the end of the session) Adapted from field work. A friend of mine just gave me a knit ball for that purpose but it hasn't been used as a reward yet. He always gets treats if he does well. I think the hardest part is convincing other well meaning trainers that food doesn't work for targets with him. So happy that someone else gets it!



The articles are still just a game. Very casual. I will make them formal once he really understands the concept.


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

Sunrise said:


> As a side note: I do not use a stanchion bang -- too many times I have seen dogs take down the ring LOL and a few times I have been set up and ready to enter when that has happened (big scary noise plus a delay). I do use stanchions but always with at least 3 so they learn it is not always just about the stanchion.
> 
> So if you use the touch or bang, may I suggest you proof yourself on when to cue the sit ?? Different backgrounds, footing, types of ring gating?
> 
> FYI: I once had a trial where the ring was close to the woods and the ring gating was unpainted wood -- Faelan was not the only dog who had a tough time finding center but luckily he was well able to jump from offset positions



I don't like that either. There are lots of very good trainers using that method around here and I'm just waiting for gates to come crashing down. Some of them bop it pretty hard. 



I was at a trial where the ring was in the middle of the room. There were walking areas all the way around it. I'm pretty lucky that Pilot is able to tune out things outside the ring. He seems to do well in a busy environment. The one thing that was the most difficult for the utility dogs was the white gates with a white wall as the backdrop. In Ohio, we don't really have outdoor trials. The closest we really get is in a barn at the fairgrounds. We really like our AC in the summer....


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I had the dogs to a private yesterday and asked about letting the dog do a paw touch or a nose touch - and her explanation was with the nose touch it's easier for the dogs to cheat. Paw touch is a clearer requirement. 

Only time I've seen gates come down is in classes.  Last time was a big black lab bringing the ring down at a fun match.

One trainer sticks a support thingy behind the stanchion to keep it from knocking over while her dog (Wynwood, so think a LOT of dog running very fast) goes at it. 

My dogs tend to dislike knocking things over and they know if they jump on a wobbly gate that it will all go over - so never really concerned about that with my dogs. It's just that pussyfootedness and not wanting to jump on or dig at a wobbly thing is a reason why it's been easier to just teach the nose touch. 

I still kinda think the nose touch is easier to teach? But I just have a pup for the first time who offered that on his own while training. It had me puzzling over which behavior to mark and encourage (nose or paw). 

Baby had his first private yesterday - I was so tickled seeing how confident and focused the little guy was. He's my first who hasn't been in any classes yet prior to this age (5 months), so I was worried about socialization pitfalls. But he was so confident and acting like he goes to class every week and it's his job. Was such a relief!


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

Abeille said:


> A friend of mine just gave me a knit ball for that purpose but it hasn't been used as a reward yet.


I got a knit ball when Eevee was a baby and it is SUCH a powerful reward for her. Holy cow does she go after it! I need to get another one for Rocket. It's a very good inside-short-retrieve reward/release.


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

Megora said:


> I had the dogs to a private yesterday and asked about letting the dog do a paw touch or a nose touch - and her explanation was with the nose touch it's easier for the dogs to cheat. Paw touch is a clearer requirement.
> 
> Only time I've seen gates come down is in classes.  Last time was a big black lab bringing the ring down at a fun match.
> 
> ...



I just prefer not teaching either at this point. I have found something that he understands so I'll stick to it. I see dogs go all the way out and touch the stanchion even after they have been told to sit a few feet away. They are that set on touching it. I have to teach it without a stanchion too. I've made a "ring gate" out of lattice and PVC, but it's too big to use inside. I'd like him to learn that go out means go until I stop you. 



Happy to hear your little guy is doing so well! No private lessons for us right now. I do have people who help me but I'm doing most of it on my own.


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

ArkansasGold said:


> I got a knit ball when Eevee was a baby and it is SUCH a powerful reward for her. Holy cow does she go after it! I need to get another one for Rocket. It's a very good inside-short-retrieve reward/release.



Mine was just given to me Thursday evening. I plan to use it the next chance I get. She makes them herself. Pilot's favorite object is his dumbbell right now. 



Have I ever told you that I think Eevee is a great name for a golden? When Pilot first started getting his adult coat, my granddaughter called him an Eevee all the time!


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

who makes those knit balls? I forgot about them. Need one myself but really want to get some for the [email protected] the 2020!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Abeille said:


> Happy to hear your little guy is doing so well! No private lessons for us right now. I do have people who help me but I'm doing most of it on my own.


Thanks<:

I normally do at least 1 round of competition basics... Jovi got maybe 1 round. But the rest was all privates and training at home until he was ready for competition and then I started drop in classes. <= I realized that working specifically on his problems helped in a huge, especially with stays. I had 2 straight dogs (Jacks and Bertie) who had odd stay problems and I was sick of it.  

For right now the vague plan is to do the same with Glee. 

It was helpful yesterday, because I still was targeting him too low at my hip. And of course working by myself I didn't realize that's what I was doing to make him bounce up every other step. :laugh:


*** this knit ball thing must be a south of Toledo thing. LOL. Have not seen any around here.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

Prism Goldens said:


> who makes those knit balls? I forgot about them. Need one myself but really want to get some for the [email protected] the 2020!


The Sunnyside ladies ordered a big bag of them from some lady in Canada (I think), but that's as far as my knowledge goes.
@Megora I had never heard of them until Karen and Megan bought that bag and sold them at run-throughs. They were gone in just a couple of days.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

I've seen them here- but totally forgot them. There was a gal who sold them in TN too. Hmm Well, if anyone has an email address I will make them very known via the 2020 raffle fb page if I can get some donated.


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## JulesAK (Jun 6, 2010)

Are the knit balls like these?


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

This is what mine looks like.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Meagan's are the ones I have seen. FWIW.


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

Prism Goldens said:


> who makes those knit balls? I forgot about them. Need one myself but really want to get some for the [email protected] the 2020!



I don't know anyone that actually sells them. She made them for our little group. She has probably moved on to a scarf or hat by now.


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

JulesAK said:


> Are the knit balls like these?



Mine isn't but that's super cute!


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

I'm at work buy I'll get a picture when I get home tonight.


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## Laurie (Sep 20, 2009)

ArkansasGold said:


> This is what mine looks like.


This is also the same kind of ball I use with Ledger. He loves it. I got mine here in Canada. Ward Falkner's (obedience competitor in BC) wife makes them....if that helps!

We also attended a fun match this past weekend. I did a modified utility run (no scent articles and targeted go outs). He did really well. He is getting pretty good at the articles but not to the point we take them on the road. 

I also did an open run with him. His exercises were wonderful but it's the in between exercises we have to work on. He's a curious boy and wants to check out everything; not all the time but too much for my liking. Normally he ignores the judge but the judge that day seemed to be quite interesting to him because he was also being a tad sociable.


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## JulesAK (Jun 6, 2010)

Ok. I see a bunch or crocheted type like that on Etsy.


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