# Formal vs. fun retrieves



## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

That is a great question! I'd love to hear the answer. Lucy just learned to swim and we're doing water retrieves, but the water is super cold and she wants to get out, drop the item, then shake since she's cold. I want to encourage her to hold the bumper, but if she's cold what should I do? I mean the ice just melted a few days ago.


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Alaska7133 said:


> That is a great question! I'd love to hear the answer. Lucy just learned to swim and we're doing water retrieves, but the water is super cold and she wants to get out, drop the item, then shake since she's cold. I want to encourage her to hold the bumper, but if she's cold what should I do? I mean the ice just melted a few days ago.


Many of the dogs I see at training have learned to shake while holding the bumper. I want to teach Molly to do this, but for now she will just have to stay soaking wet until she gets to heel position. Right now I am just standing right at the bank. She did shake once with the bumper in her mouth but I was never able to get her to do it again. 

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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I don't require my dogs to come to heel (or front) on play retrieves, but I do require deliver to hand. The one exception is if I have the Chuck It stick I let them set the ball on the ground. No chuck it, deliver to hand.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I didn't see the field trainers thing before answering.... Please disregard from that standpoint.  

I say "get it" instead of "take it" if it's informal. 

If I say "Take it", I expect a sit in front. 

If I say "get it", I really just want them to come back into my space. They don't have to give.


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Megora said:


> I didn't see the field trainers thing before answering.... Please disregard from that standpoint.
> 
> I say "get it" instead of "take it" if it's informal.
> 
> ...


Interesting.. Maybe I should use different commands. She knows the difference between a retrieve in obedience and a fun retrieve but (I feel) the lines are kinda blurred between field training and fun. I had not worked on obedience retrieves in weeks (only formal retrieves for field where she delivers at heel position) but she still remembered to come front and not to heel with the dumbbell when we finally did retrieves in class this week. 


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

I have Bella sit and drop the chuckit ball on the ground. I started by spitting a hot dog chuck to get her to drop it. If I ever do field work, I'll obviously have some work to do to change that.


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Nairb said:


> I have Bella sit and drop the chuckit ball on the ground. I started by spitting a hot dog chuck to get her to drop it. If I ever do field work, I'll obviously have some work to do to change that.


Yeah.. I haven't used the chuckit much since starting field work.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Delivery to hand is always a requirement.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I always require delivery to hand, and no shaking until the object is in my hand.
Trust me, they're not THAT cold that they can't wait another 15 seconds to give you the bumper before they shake. I could be wrong, but I believe they shake because they're wet, not because they're cold. The water coming off when they get out and shake is coming from the outer coat, not the undercoat, and it's not going to make them any warmer to get rid of it right away. My dogs shake just as much when it's 100 out as when it's 30 out when they get out of the water.
I think requiring delivery to hand before shaking just develops a habit that, in the excitement of a test, they will do correctly because it's what they're used to ALWAYS doing. 
JMO of course.


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## MarieP (Aug 21, 2011)

For me, it completely depends on what we are retrieving. 

Bumper/bird: deliver to hand, either in front or at heel, depending on what I ask for
Dumbbell: "front"
Tennis ball: bring it close and drop it

I believe dogs are very situational, so Riot knows what is expected depending on what is going on. I've never had him try a perfect front with a bird. I've never had him try to auto-finish with a dumbbell. Could it happen? Maybe, but that will be a nice teaching point to remind him of the difference.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

So what should be a proper sequence of events from the point that the dog gets the bumper or toy in their mouth and circles in the water to come back?


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

oh my requirements are different on land, too. I thought the OP was only referring to water retrieves.



mlopez said:


> For me, it completely depends on what we are retrieving.
> 
> Bumper/bird: deliver to hand, either in front or at heel, depending on what I ask for
> Dumbbell: "front"
> ...


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

If I interpret your question correctly...
Dog grabs the object, immediately turns and starts to return to you with it. 
Gets out of water and goes immediately to heel position.
Releases object to your hand when told to do so.
Shakes when told it's okay to do so (I use a hand signal, shaking of my hand back and forth, to signal "shake" because some dummy taught him "shake" as a verbal meant to offer a paw when he was 8 weeks old :doh: ).
Then he's free to go roll around in the mud if it was a fun retrieve .



Alaska7133 said:


> So what should be a proper sequence of events from the point that the dog gets the bumper or toy in their mouth and circles in the water to come back?


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

The answer is "IT DEPENDS"

If there is any question whatsoever, then just don't use a bumper as the play retrieve object. If they are fetching a ball or frisbee then who cares, it's their toy.

I do play fetch with my guys all the time, sometimes with a bumper, sometimes not. I would say in general I don't pick bumpers off the ground to throw (deliver to hand?) but then again they are obsessed with bumpers so they really wouldn't dream of just dropping them on the ground. I have the opposite problem, if I let them do as they wish with bumpers, Slater hordes them or chews them up. 

Short answer : just throw a ball


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Thanks for the replies. I realize I wasn't clear in my post that I did not mean play retrieves with bumpers but balls, frisbees, etc.

Since we started field late, we have had a lot of habits to break. I am nervous about how easy it must be for her to go back to her old ways if I become too relaxed regarding retrieves. 


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

@Marie - love the new picture of the dogs<: Riot looks all grown up!


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

Vhuynh2 said:


> I have a question for you field trainers.
> 
> Do you guys ever play fetch informally with your dogs (on land and in water)? Or do you expect your dog to deliver every single thing to hand at heel position? I'm asking because now that I have taught Molly to *not* drop the bumper coming out of the water to shake, I get stressed out worrying if she will continue delivering everything to hand in heel position so I have cut back on the swimming, even though I really want her to get the exercise. Any thoughts on this?


I don't do too much fun-fetching with my gang ... they stay pretty high most of the time anyway. However, to answer your question, once they are through force fetch, they have to deliver to hand. ... Why not? They know "hold," so why lower the standard for such a simple thing for them to do. And I've never had one get sullen because they have had to deliver to hand. Plus, I want them to be in the habit of delivering to hand, even when excited, whether it's a frisbee, or a ball, or a duck in a WC, or a pheasant in an Open.
I'd be particularly cautious about allowing a dog that isn't fully force fetched to spit out or drop a bumper or even a ball ... you may get into problems with mixed messages. I don't disagree with whomever said that dogs are situational learners, but the pup either in or barely out of force fetch, doesn't have the foundation to "get it." 
And I no longer, ... never, ever throw balls or frisbees for the pups ....
Torn ACL regards,
FTGoldens


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