# Breaking the Rules for Different Dogs



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I just learned something new today from my golden... 

Jacks is badly storm phobic. Knowing this I picked up some calming pills (mild herbal ones recommended by a groomer, not the strong meds from the vet) ahead of time and treated him with them about the time when I fed him supper, before the fireworks started. 

So I had an overtired dog climbing all over my laptop computer, shaking, panting, drooling.... 

I know the standard rule is to not coddle the dog and not make a special fuss over them. I tried it, and it just wasn't working. 

So, my computer away and -

1. Tied a scarf around his head, over his ears. I have no idea if this helped muffle the sounds of fireworks shaking the house. It did give him something else to think about.

2. I pulled him into my lap and cooed, kissed, and talked over him. 

3. Turned on some loud music - 

This calmed him down enough so he curled up on my bed next to me and angled himself so he was looking at me and had physical contact with me. 

About this time I remembered something unique about him, that I should have considered. He's one of those dogs who is constantly trying to keep my attention on him when we're walking. He will constantly look up at me and make sure I'm looking down at him. If I'm not looking, then I get a nudge on my hand. 

This translated to this point when he was overtired and scared, he wanted me to sit there and look at him. And he wanted me to keep a hand on his back or head, or in some way maintaining contact. 

He fell asleep in just a few minutes. He still sound asleep. 

*exhales* 

I don't know how this works on those days when I'm not around to look at him and touch him. :uhoh: Guess it means I hope there's a chance he will mellow out over time. And I have the next whole week of fireworks every night until midnight to work on the mellowing process.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

They do make a Rescue Remedy for pets. One of the girls in my vets office uses it for her dogs and says it works really well. It relaxes them without doping them up. 
http://www.rescueremedy.com/pets/


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## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

also try pleasing pheromone,


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Do you have to get that stuff online, or do they carry it in stores? 

One thing that worried me about the pills I got for Jacks is the directions say 1 pill per every 10 lbs, but only 6 pills a day. <- My golden is 80 lbs! 

I gave him three pills yesterday, but kept freaking out about him being overdosed.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Talk to your vet about using Xanex. I breeder vet tech suggested it to me years ago for my Whippet. It's WONDERFUL! Doesn't sedate her, but being an anti anxiety med, it helps her "cope" with the noises. She still worries a little, but it's a MILLION times better than before.

I tried all the behavior mod stuff for several years and she'd still stress big time on the 4th and surrounding days. I'd much rather medicate than watch her endure that.


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

SO agree with Stephanie. Medication can be a fast and humane option for dogs who are stressed by storms and noises.

Fear CANNOT be reinforced through petting/food/play. It is NOT possible.

Here's an article by Patricia McConnell on such:

http://www.theotherendoftheleash.com/you-cant-reinforce-fear-dogs-and-thunderstorms

http://www.theotherendoftheleash.com/reinforcing-fear-ii-thunder-phobia-iii


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Can I ask - does anyone have any experience using "ACE" with their dogs? That is the prescription my vet wrote out for me and has waiting for us to pick up. He filled this out weeks ago, but I waffled about using it for my baby. Even if he reassured me that the dosage would just keep my dog relaxed.

I've used medication with my cat when he's stressed out by something and hate the way he is for the next couple days after we give him a pill.


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

DO NOT use ace for behavior modification! It is a chemical restraint AND it increases sound sensitivity. This means, your dog will be unable to move like normal, but perceive the noises more than normal. Many/most/all veterinary behaviorists are considering this inhumane.

Other medications are great, but not ace. 

Here's a vet behaviorist talking about ace:


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Thank goodness I haven't picked up that prescription then.... :O


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

I used Ace in years past and was not pleased with the results. I guess I know why now.

I keep valium pills on hand for my storm phobic GR. It calms him and does not seem to have any negative effects. I got the pills from my vet. I believe he gets 5mg and he is 65 lbs.

Copper also is okay if I am there to cuddle and coddle him or if there is something really fantastic around like a kong filled with peanut butter and then frozen (it lasts longer that way).

I don't know how to get them over storm phobia. Copper is older now and doesn't hear so well so it isn't as bad as when he was younger.

I laughed out loud at your comment about the handkerchief.: I put cotton balls in Copper's ears to cut down on the noise.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

I think the biggest problem with "coddling" is that some people talk in high voices, which can confirm anxiety. As RD pointed out, you can't reinforce anxiety with praise and play, but you can make it worse by making the dog more anxious.

So I wouldn't hesitate to play with the dog, pet, and give treats. I _would_ hesitate to talk in a high voice or to do anything that might be anxiety-inducing or anything that might communicate my own anxiety about the dog's anxiety.

A "no big deal" attitude, games, and food would be the way I'd approach the situation.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Regarding ACE -- I know many say it's contraindicated for noise phobias, but I used it for years before switching to Xanex and it did not make my dog worse. It sedated her to the point of wanting to snooze. 

I've also spoken several times with a vet tech friend who routinely uses Ace for hard to handle dogs. If the theory is that Ace inhibits the body and not the mind, that using it pre- vet visit should make that worse, too, since now you have a dog at the vet who is still scared, but can't use his legs to run away. She reports the opposite effect. In fact, over time, she says the dogs actually get BETTER about coming to the vet and many are able to be weaned off the need for Ace for vet visits.

I think the making problems worse (due to the contraindication) can happen in some dogs, but it doesn't seem to be a blanket effect.

I still WAY prefer Xanex over Ace b/c I just don't like physically knocking my dog on her butt. I think the trick is to work with a drug that has specific anti-anxiety properties (like Xanex or Valium) vs. just a plain sedative.


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

Megora said:


> Can I ask - does anyone have any experience using "ACE" with their dogs? That is the prescription my vet wrote out for me and has waiting for us to pick up. He filled this out weeks ago, but I waffled about using it for my baby. Even if he reassured me that the dosage would just keep my dog relaxed.
> 
> I've used medication with my cat when he's stressed out by something and hate the way he is for the next couple days after we give him a pill.


Acepromazine will heighten her awareness of the noises/fireworks but will incapacitate the body. Please don't use it- ask for something else!!


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

FlyingQuizini said:


> I've also spoken several times with a vet tech friend who routinely uses Ace for hard to handle dogs. If the theory is that Ace inhibits the body and not the mind, that using it pre- vet visit should make that worse, too, since now you have a dog at the vet who is still scared, but can't use his legs to run away. She reports the opposite effect. In fact, over time, she says the dogs actually get BETTER about coming to the vet and many are able to be weaned off the need for Ace for vet visits.


If you come across more info on this PLEASE share! Are you/your friend suspecting it's not learned helplessness in that situation (would be my thought, if the dogs are improving while on ace)? I'd LOVE to hear more!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

So far so good... *fingers crossed* Maybe my timing was a little better than yesterday.

I gave him the three same pills, but started music (like Apocolypto and Pirates of the Caribbean - lots of booms on those CDs to drown out and distract him from whatever's going on outside) long before hand. Right now he's sleeping in his usual spot, on his back, with his feet propped on the wall. 



> Acepromazine will heighten her awareness of the noises/fireworks but will incapacitate the body.


In otherwords - sort of like when people have a bad reaction to Benadryl (my mom and one sister experience this). They get over anxious and hyped up, but can't move. 

I'm really glad I didn't do that to my dog.


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