# Puppy Too Submissive?



## Piper_the_goldenpuppy (Aug 26, 2016)

Piper is this way. She's been timid and submissive since day 1. Even if Sadie is a little more submissive and sensitive, thats not necessarily a reason she couldn't be a good therapy dog, provided she has appropriate socialization she needs. It might be an asset because she may be more grounded from the beginning. It just highlights an area where you probably need to focus on more than people who have an overly confident dog (who might need more work on impulse-regulation and boundaries). 

Sadie's whining when greeted by strangers and dogs could be fear based or could just be excitement. I would study up on dog body language, and watch her--it might give you a clue as to how she's feeling. A whine that starts high and gets lower tends to be more "excitement" where a whine that doesn't change pitch, or goes higher at the end is more likely to be a fear based whine. 

She does sound anxious in puppy class. Have you tried bringing really high value treats, like string cheese, liver, or meat? You could also try bringing a toy (its not as high value, but it she might respond to that). Piper is less interested in treats when she's nervous/excited, but string cheese worked for me. If she responds to that, you could do some desensitization/counter-conditioning work with her in class, by rewarding her for being in the room, sitting out on the puppy socialization time so she can watch, and giving her lots of treats and scratches and praise. You could ask the trainer if it would be possible to separate Sadie and one other puppy whose play style is similar, so she's not overwhelmed, and go from there. 

I think the best way to handle it is to keep socializing her as much as possible. Let it be on her terms and at her pace. She's still at an age where a negative interaction could have a big impact, so don't worry about stepping in and intervening if she's overwhelmed. Timid and more sensitive dogs are at risk for being traumatized or even bitten by dogs, because they are less likely to stand their ground when scared. And obedience training also helps confidence. Does she know a cue for looking at you? That can be a great way to get her attention back to you if she's distracted. 

If you have a friend with a puppy, thats a good place to start. Or just a very friendly and chill dog thats not over-excitable. If you guys are doing a more intensive obedience class, you could switch it up and go to a puppy kindergarten that is mostly focused on socialization. I did that with Piper. I didn't need so much help training, but I was worried about her confidence. My MSPCA has a great puppy class (for puppies of all sizes) and a separate group for timid dogs. We did two of the timid groups before moving up. Piper just absolutely blossomed, it was so awesome to watch. 

At her heart, Piper just isn't as confident as other dogs (except when it comes to people). She still gets freaked out by random things that are new, but now she's much better about going to investigate something on her own without prompting. She's SO much more confident with dogs now compared to how she was.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

We can give you advice or input based on our experience but you really are better off working with a trainer in person. If you are not getting good feedback from the trainer working with you in a group setting, I would network and find someone who is able to give you private lessons and work on things to help your girl build confidence. A relationship with a good private trainer is an excellent resource to have and worth every penny. Someone who knows your dog and can see her in person in a way we can't on a site like this. Finding an obedience club or a dog training club in your metro area is a good way of getting a referral to a good trainer.


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## Wolfeye (Sep 15, 2015)

Maybe she needs more unrestrained access to dogs? My puppy Bagheera is on the meeker side. He's not all that nervous, but when we first went on walks he'd stop every few feet and check something out - a sound, a car, whatever. Dogs too, frightened him, even ones smaller than himself. Then he went to daycare and met and interacted with all kinds of dogs. He's ok with dogs now. At a dog park yesterday he was completely fine, until this much larger dog kept roughing him. He rolled over, the dog sniffed him, and that was it. Pup got right back up and continued on his way. I think they can only learn dogs are ok and they're NOT all trying to kill and eat you by being immersed in dogs, in a supervised setting.


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## Lucy222 (Aug 15, 2016)

smp said:


> She will interact with the other dogs, but she starts foaming at the mouth with little icicles of drool around her mouth - even with just 2 or 3 low key dogs. She won't take ANY treats in class, so it is almost useless for her to be there.


My puppy did EXACTLY this when we started going to obedience class. The first two, maybe three, classes were pretty much a write off. I was baffled as she is rather crazy for food at home. I tried soo many different treats - the one that finally worked for us was freeze dried liver. I can't explain how happy I was when she finally took a treat at puppy class! Haha
That was around 6 months.. she's 8 months old now and still does this to a degree, gets all foamy and drooly and doesn't seem to care much about food rewards. But I must say that by the last class I was thrilled with how far we had come and how much more attention she was willing to give me in a room full of other dogs and smells!

She always seemed overly excited to meet the other dogs but the drooling and "spaced out" looks were more indicative of being stressed so I'm not sure - but I do know that she improved quite a bit with more exposure and positive experiences.

Good luck, I'm sure she will be just fine!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

smp said:


> I'm getting concerned that Sadie might be a little too submissive and wondering if it is a problem or something she'll grow out of. We're hoping to eventually have her certified for pet therapy and accompany me in my pediatric office. She is currently 5 months old and seems submissive with greeting both people and especially other dogs. She is very interested in going to them and doesn't seem scared, but immediately goes submissive when she gets close.
> 
> With people, she's doing pretty well - a few excited submissive pees when someone is a little over excited and she hasn't been out to pee, but that seems to be getting better. She'll do the sit-scoot forward then start to whine as they love all over her.
> 
> ...


 
If she is not taking treats in the class, you could try higher value treats, but it could be that the whole environment (location, the number of dogs, new people) is too overwhelming for her right now. Drooling/foaming at the mouth are also signs of stress. Could visit the location outside of class time, and help her to become more comfortable with being there. Just go and feed some treats, and leave, right away. Could you arrange for 'play dates' with one dog at a time, in a familiar space, such as your back yard, where she could learn to relax and play? 

Focus on confidence building exercises, teaching eye contact, can help her learn to redirect her attention to you and enable her to calm herself, teach 'touch' (her nose to the palm of your hand) fun and easy for her to learn, and can help her by giving something to focus on when she is feeling stressed or uncomfortable with the situation. Rehearse and reward known skills and teach new ones, teach her easy to learn tricks, such as 'shake a paw', weave, spin. Set her up for success, make it easy for her to learn, each success builds more and more confidence. Be patient, encouraging and avoid physical or verbal corrections, (sensitive dogs can be very intimidated by it) ignore the mistakes and focus on rewarding her for getting it 'right'. Give her time, help her learn.


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