# Sore Leg pt2 - Update 5/30 - ACL!?!



## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

My Jasmine partially tore her ACL almost 2 years ago. We didn't realize that was what was going on because she has had two FHOs (one on each hip) and we thought she was limping because of achiness in one of her hips. It got to the point that when we went up to the lake, she was three legged after the first day. But every morning she was back to walking just fine.

Finally we had our vet look at it and she said she thought it was a torn ACL and referred us to a specialty hospital. That vet spent 5 minutes with us, told us she needed surgery right away and scheduled her to go in a week later. I asked my vet for a referral to a second specialty hospital and took her there.

That vet spent almost an hour with us, explained all of the different options, including allowing time to see if it would heal up on it's own, losing some weight and mild exercise. That was the route we decided to make. Partially because he mentioned that since she didn't have a femural head on either back leg, there was more cushioning to the knee when she walked.

So we decided to give it a couple of months. Over time, I could see huge improvements. Here we are a year later and she doesn't even limp after a long day up at the lake. We got her down from about 78 lbs to 63 lbs and we walk 2 miles almost every day. She runs with the boys and has no sign that there is any issue with her knee any more.

This may not work for everyone's dog. Part of her saving grace was her previous hip surgeries. But I am very happy because I didn't want to put her through another big orthopaedic surgery.


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## Doodle (Apr 6, 2009)

I don't have personal experience, but my neighbor's yellow lab partially tore her ACL 2 winters ago when she slipped on some ice. She was given the options of surgery, or limiting exercise and seeing if it would heal. They went with the latter option and she healed up just fine with no residual lameness. They are still a little cautious of her exercise in slippery conditions, and she is on glycoflex also. She's doing well and romps with Brady almost daily.


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

Jo Ellen's dog Daisy had ACL surgery... hopefully she sees this and offers some advice!!


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## mikhal (Nov 24, 2007)

Fostermom - how did your vet determine that Jasmine had a partially torn ACL? Mine just felt her knee and showed me that her knee can be displaced laterally, while her left knee (good one) doesn't exhibit the same movement.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

mikhal said:


> Fostermom - how did your vet determine that Jasmine had a partially torn ACL? Mine just felt her knee and showed me that her knee can be displaced laterally, while her left knee (good one) doesn't exhibit the same movement.


 The way it was described to me by my vet and both specialist is that if the ACL was torn completely, she would not have bearing any weight on it. On good days, she didn't even limp, on bad days after a lot of running, she would be three legged until the next morning, when she would be walking on it again.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Tplo*

I feel for you because I know how worried we were when this happened to our Golden Girl!!

My 10 year old Golden Ret. Girl, Smooch, just had TPLO surgery on her right rear knee on March 18.
She let out a yelp one morning when she got to the bottom of three steps on our patio and was holding up her leg and limping and she did not put weight on it. We took her to the vet a few days later, he did x-rays and from the x-rays said she had torn her acl and blown out her right knee and she could either have a suture surgery or the TPLO which is more invasive and they put a plate and pins in which don't need to ever come out unless they bother her.
The way the vet explained it is the TPLO surgery takes more recovery time but he felt was more stable for Smooch.
Smooch actually used her leg the day after surgery
when we brought her home and didn't seem to be in much pain at all. The worst part was keeping the Cone on her head so she wouldn't lick her incision. She just had her two month checkup last week with more x-rays and the vet is very pleased with her progress and it's been a piece of cake for us considering her age.
This has been our experience.
The surgery was $3600 and the vet had a no interest credit card for us-Wells Fargo, with free interest for a year.

Please feel free to email me if you like:
[email protected]


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## mikhal (Nov 24, 2007)

Hi Fostermom - I am wondering how your vet & specialist determined that it was the ACL that was partially torn, and that it wasn't a sprain or anything.
Mine just moved her knee around and told me that her right knee should not move that much (then showed me how steady the left knee was).

How did your vet determine it was the ACL in the first place?

Thanks!


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

I have way too much experience with ACL injuries.

Sounds like your vet did the drawer test. When the ligament is torn or ruptured, joint stability will be compromised or lost and sounds like that's what's happening when you said the knee was sliding from side to side. Sprains do not affect joint stability that same way.

Did you notice an acute leg injury with your dog? Was there a moment that your dog yelped, went down and then didn't bear any weight on that leg at all for days at a time? That's the hallmark sign of a ruptured ligament. Nothing but surgery can fix that. Partial tears, on the other hand, are more subtle -- maybe the only sign will be limping or stiffness or favoring one leg over the other. I've read that partial tears can heal but it's very, very difficult. I really do believe that once the ligament is torn, it is never as strong again as it was before it was torn, even after it "heals."

I know what you mean about being down for the summer. I always elected to have Daisy's ACL surgeries in the dead of winter. If your dog only has a torn ACL (as opposed to ruptured), you may be able to wait until winter. 

I'm really curious about the initial injury though ... I would never encourage anyone to wait for surgery if the ligament is ruptured because then arthritis becomes a huge concern. But if she has only torn her ligament, you can still have fun this summer, just take it easy. Do keep in mind though that a torn ligament can rupture at any moment, and often doing something completely benign.


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## mikhal (Nov 24, 2007)

Hi Jo Ellen,
So the drawer test is pretty definitive of a torn ACL? The vet said she did not think Sara has a ruptured ACL because it doesn't seem like it is causing her pain, and she walks without hesitation (just limping).

I did not notice a leg injury. All this happened about 2 weeks ago. In the morning she was fine, but when I got back, she was limping. She got much better after a week, so we played ball in the backyard and when she got to it, she was standing there on 3 legs. That was about a week ago, and she has been limping ever since. Albeit, she has been making improvement from day-to-day, but still limping.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

mikhal said:


> Hi Fostermom - I am wondering how your vet & specialist determined that it was the ACL that was partially torn, and that it wasn't a sprain or anything.
> Mine just moved her knee around and told me that her right knee should not move that much (then showed me how steady the left knee was).
> 
> How did your vet determine it was the ACL in the first place?
> ...


 They moved the knee cap around and had me walk her up and down the hallway. Apparently there is a sort of a turn to the leg that shows up with an ACL tear.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

If she had ruptured her ACL while you were away, you would have come back and noticed she wasn't using her leg at all. 

I do think the drawer test is common with vets, with this type of injury. Knee joints with healthy ligaments don't move in ways that they do when the ligament is not supporting the joint properly. 

Have you considered a second opinion? Do you trust your vet?

You will see improvement over time with both tears and ruptures, but you will also notice that even normal activity will cause them to limp afterwards, especially after they've rested for a bit.


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## mikhal (Nov 24, 2007)

Hi, thanks for the replies.
I do trust my vet, but I have considered getting a second opinion.
That was, until I saw my vet perform the "drawer" test and showing me the difference between her good and bad knee.
With a few quick reads on the internet, I'm pretty convinced that my girl has a partially torn ACL. If not, her knee would not have moved much with the drawer test.

I have Cosequin coming in this Tuesday (I ordered it after she started limping, but before vet did drawer test). I was going to see how she responds to the Cosequin (after 2-3 weeks). Weighing that against hearing about how this may cause severe artheritis and possibility damging the good knee, makes me nervous.

Should I schedule the surgery soon? Or the longer I wait, the risker it becomes, even though she's showing day-to-day improvements?

(By the way, my vet has a nother surgeon do this type of sugery. He's a very experienced animal surgeon (grad in 1982ish) and the surgeon will evaluate Sara before cutting. That gives me a little more confidence that it will be done right.)


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

There's no harm in waiting 2-3 weeks. I wouldn't recommend waiting if it was a full rupture but with tears, you have a little more flexibility. 

The Cosequin is a good idea, keep doing that. And ask your vet what they would recommend about when to do the surgery. It's a shame to have to lose any time to this kind of thing, but summers are precious.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

My Casey had a suspected ACL injury; possibly a sprain or a tear. There was some movement that did not belong and so he was put under anesthesia for further testing - it was confirmed that it was not a tear but a strain or sprain. 

Anyway, with that said, he was on pain meds and anti inflammatories for a few weeks with limited activity; slowly increasing the activity levels and allowable activities seems to have allowed the ligament the time needed to heal on its own. 

It can take some time for soft tissue injuries to heal.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Mikhal*

Mikhal

I don't know if my Husband answered your email or not, but our 10 year old Smooch would not step on her leg at all and hopped around.
The vet recommended the TPLO after x-rays and because of her weight, she was a bit overweight, and the fact that she is a Field Golden-quite active-and thought that this surgery would be more stable.
It was performed by a TPLO certified surgeon.
Here is a state listing of TPLO Certified Surgeons:
http://www.slocumenterprises.com/tplo_surgeons.htm


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## mikhal (Nov 24, 2007)

Hello Karen,

No, I didn't get an e-mail from your husband.
Thanks for that link, it's good to check that my vet's surgeon is TPLO certified.
I guess I will have to talk more with my vet regarding which treatment is best. I've been hearing TPLO a whole lot more often than any other procedure, though.

For those whom have had ACL surgery... how slow or quick was your dog to recover?
The first 10 days sound intimidating... no movement. How did you manage to take your Golden to the bathroom?

Thanks for the help!


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

I didn't do the TPLO, I did the extra-articular repair where they put in an artificial ligament. Daisy was able to move, as soon as she came home from the hospital. She went to the bathroom without help (on a leash of course), and she was even able to do the 3 steps of our front porch to come inside. 

I blocked off the stairs inside the house when I couldn't be home ... though once I forgot when I was just going to be gone for a couple of minutes and when I came back, there she was coming down the stairs like nothing was going on. This was like two weeks after her surgery. It's amazing how well they do with this type of surgery and how quickly they bounce back. 

As far as recovery goes, I have to say it's taken about a year for Daisy to get back to normal, and for me too, to relax when she runs. We're only 6 months out on her 2nd one but I expect this one will be pretty much the same.

The first couple of days after surgery are rough, but not as bad as you probably fear. Would some pictures be helpful to you? I have some I can share, if you like.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

mikhal said:


> Hi Jo Ellen,
> So the drawer test is pretty definitive of a torn ACL? The vet said she did not think Sara has a ruptured ACL because it doesn't seem like it is causing her pain, and she walks without hesitation (just limping).
> 
> I did not notice a leg injury. All this happened about 2 weeks ago. In the morning she was fine, but when I got back, she was limping. She got much better after a week, so we played ball in the backyard and when she got to it, she was standing there on 3 legs. That was about a week ago, and she has been limping ever since. Albeit, she has been making improvement from day-to-day, but still limping.


This was my experience with Robbie when he tore his ACL, and also when the sutures that were put in to replace the ligament tore loose three months later. When the ACL tore completely there was immmediate pain at the time of the tear, he yelped then came back on three legs. As Jo Ellen said this is usually the sign of a full tear. Once the ligament is completely torn there is no stability in knee, it is essentially unusable because without the ligament it won't bear weight, but it didn't appear to continue to cause pain. 

The drawer test is the definitive test of the ligament being torn, the knee will not move in that fashion if the ligament is intact.

We had the standard repair done after the first injury, the extra-cappular where they replace the torn ligament with durable sutures. Three months after surgery the sutures tore loose, and Robbie came inside on three legs. I don't think it caused pain like it did the first time, but he couldn't use his leg. 

He needed a second surgery on the same knee. We had to go to the TPLO surgery to make sure the leg was repaired correctly. He could walk on the leg immediately after surgery because it was stablized with a metal plate screwed to the joint. The required no activity other than bath room breaks was longer though, closer to 4 months of very restricted activity. More expensive by a lot, but also most definitely the better repair for Robbie, his knee is now solid and gives him no trouble.


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## Jemima (Apr 4, 2009)

Hi there, this seems to be quite a common thing amongst our beautiful animals. Heidi seems to have some kind of genetic problem here when she paritally tore her left one, then two weeks later after closely monitoring her she ruptured it, all with no particular reason. She had the surgery with the sutures and 11 days after the surgery I came home from work to find her in the back yard unable to move. She had completely ruptured the right one, once again for no apparent reason. We had to wait until 12 weeks after the left one's surgery before she was able to go through the same surgery again, and in between this she was getting infections about every 20 days (which required two strong anti-biotics each time). The vet decided to remove the left sutures while operating on the right one. The same thing happened to the right leg. 12 weeks after that the sutures were removed. It was discovered that she was rejecting the sutures. 
However, we are now 3 months after the right leg sutures were removed (7 months after the left one ruptured and 5 months after the right one did), and we have now just got to the stage of walking for about 30 minutes a day only on the lead, and definitely no running. The bottom line is, I am glad we have done it, because Heidi would have a lot of arthritis issues if it had been left. She is also overweight because of medication she is on for epilpepsy and bladder problems, so being able to exercise her again is so important. Good luck with your decision and keep us posted.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Yesterday, we met a twelve year old lab who is 5 months out from the same surgery Jo Ellen mentioned. Brooke asked the lab's owner if she was 6 or 7 ish, and we were shocked to hear Chloe was 12 and had had surgery. She was swimming and frolicking. It really made me happy to see such a good outcome in a senior dog. It made me determined to keep Tango's (elbow dysplasia)weight down when she is an old lady.


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## New Golden Mom (Dec 17, 2008)

I haven't been on the forum much at all recently due to a move and trying to fix up the new house (a fixer upper if ever there was one!) so I missed this thread. But thankfully a wise friend of mine saw it and sent it to me.

Last week Rufus (who is not quite 6 months old) was playing at the dog park and he stumbled over a stump, he limped around for a few minutes then appeared to be fine. Later on he and another dog were playing and the other dog came down on the same leg (foot). Rufus yelped and starting limping again but this time he kept limping. He also kept pulling at the hair between his pads. We checked for cuts, foreign objects and there was nothing so we decided to take him home and wait until morning and see how he was. The next morning he was still limping so off to the vet. She suspected a broken foot, but because we were an emergency appointment and she had a full waiting room and an emergency surgery, she didn't x-ray it at the time, she had him splinted and gave us pain killers and told us to come back the next morning for x-rays. It wasn't broken but when she called us back after looking at the x-rays she mentioned an ACL injury. The orthopedic surgeon was in the clinic that day and he checked Rufus and he suspected the same thing. They're not sure of the extent of the injury at this point...we're hoping it's a sprain or strain. He's on glucosamine and MSM supplements and a shot of cartrophen vet once a week for four weeks. I can't remember if our vet or the surgeon said they had never or rarely seen an ACL injury that was a complete tear in a 6 month old puppy but someone did mention that at some point.

The hardest part is keeping a rambunctious. playful puppy quiet! He has so much energy and he's getting frustrated with the limited exercise thing. He is now putting weight on his leg and the only time he pulls it up is going down the stairs. The rest of the time he seems pretty good. We go for the second shot of cartrphen tomorrow so I'm hoping they tell us we can start walking again. For those of you who have been around for a while you may remember Rufus had surgery in April after he ate a piece of metal so if another surgery is required I may just have to scream!!

Sorry to hijack this thread.....I do share your pain and I am following this with great interest.


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

I too have had CCL (it cranial cruciate in a dog) injuries, two in the same dog, my senior golden Maxine. Contrary to Jo Ellen's comment (sorry ) they do NOT limp all the time with a rupture. Maxine hardly limped it was off and on, and being a senior I thought it was just "old age". However there were times she would get up and could not extend her leg to the ground. However once she did, she moved just fine. 

As far as surgery goes, it is expensive but HIGHLY worth it. I don't care what procedure you do, they all seem to work. Ask lots of questions find out what is best for you (I did TPLO x2) and do it. Maxine is 12 1/2 two years plus post op TPLO #2 and running around like a young dog, no meds only joint supps, and happy as a clam!!!! It is not a 3-6 month rehab. You have to keep the dog quiet for 8 weeks with basically no moving around only passive range of motion exercises and potty walks. At 8 weeks you return to the vet, they re-examine, and you start to SLOWLY bring the dog back to work. That for us we took a couple months to SLOWLY bring back Max, but she is doing great!!!

She started agility and earned 3 dock jumping titles after her first surgery. We retired her from dock jumping (after one year) before her second knee went. She still plays with agility. I wish I could post a video, you would not know she is 12 or that she ever had surgery.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

I'm not sure where we disagree. Are you saying Maxine ruptured her CCL (sorry, I keep calling it ACL), and could still use her leg immediately after? There was no obvious immediate sign that something happened? And you're saying that Maxine's CCL was completely torn, not partially torn? 

When Daisy ruptured her CCL, she did regain limited use of her leg(s) after about a week. But still it was obvious that it was painful to some extent for her to walk. Exercise made it worse. And so did long periods of rest but once she was up and moving around again, there was some improvement.


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

When Maxine's first CCL ruptured (no meniscus damage though) I was told ruptured didn't say partial or full so I am not sure, she was T-boned by my lab in January. Immediately after the blow, she got up picked up her rear leg as if to say "ow" she limped for a few, then walked home as if nothing happened so I did not figure it was anything. She did not go to the vet until late April  :no: because it was off and on, never consistent. It was not until the leg straightening issue that I even mentioned it to my vet (I know bad mom) I honestly thought arthritis. BUT it does depend on the attitude of the injured dogs some are extremely stoic, others wimp, and everywhere in between. 

When her second knee went I was MUCH more in tune. Again she didn't really "limp" I just had this "feeling" something was not right. The first time I took her in, they said it was fine, a month later it was ruptured with meniscus damage. I think I got a bad call the first time. So not all dogs show the pain. 

Both you and I do agree your dog can benefit from the surgeries and make full recoveries. I know both Teddi and my lab Belle are EXTREMELY stoic. Teddi has lived with pain in some manner since the day she was born. So when she "shows pain" I sit up and MAKE sure I take notice. I think my lab would run with a broken leg if I let her. I guess I was just saying severe limping is not necessarily the case, it can be much more subtle but "usually" there are other signs (like the extending of the leg issue) to be aware of. It was like her leg would "catch" and not extend, then be fine. 

Dogs if only they could tell us, it would make our lives much more easy! Or would it?


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## mikhal (Nov 24, 2007)

Max's Mom/Jo Ellen - Thanks for sharing. Your stories definitely sound encouraging, and it's good to hear that your dogs were quick to recover. I've made a call to the vet to see when we can schedule a consultation with the surgeon and possibly date for the surgery.

Do post photos/videos of your dogs after the surgery. I'm curious about this process, so the more I read/see the better!


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## mikhal (Nov 24, 2007)

Update!
Had a consultation session with the orthopedic surgeon today (for $170 freakin' dollars!!) and the surgeon was much better at explaining everything than the regular doc. Which is a good sign, at least I know my girl is in good hands.

The surgeon thinks Sara has completely ruptured her CCL as indicated by her knee's drawer movement. Surgeon recommends the MRIT procedure (Modified Retinacular Imprication... dunno where the 'T' comes from). It's the procedure that utilizes a thick suture that ties the two leg bones together. Also known as Extracapsular Repair (I think).

Anyway, I plan on having Sara undergo this surgery next Friday... looks like we will be missing out on action for a good 6 months. =(


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Oh dear, yes there goes your summer  But if your vet really thinks it's a rupture and not a partial tear, then you don't want to wait. There's too much inflammatory activity going on there, and that's what leads to arthritis.

This is exactly what Daisy had. I actually saved a piece of the ligament material they use for this. It's very strong, and I believe your surgeon will wrap it around twice, to double the strength. 

Here is a picture of Daisy's first surgery, right after I brought her home. The stitches were on the inside. It looks bad and it was rough the first couple of days, but honestly I do think it was harder on me than her. It's amazing how well dogs do with this type of surgery and how quickly they bounce back.










Be careful with the water when you bring her home. She might be excited and happy to be home but she'll still be somewhat compromised from the anesthesia and just the whole general experience. Only let her have a little bit at a time for the first night, maybe 1/2 a cup every hour. 

We're here for you!


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## Jenny Wren (Feb 27, 2007)

I'm another one with experience with torn ligaments in the knee. 

Taya is 10 now. When she was 4 or 5 she gradually started toe touching with her one back leg. We waited and waited and after a drawer test was sent to an ortho specialist. We had x rays taken and yes she had a torn ligament. So she had the traditional surgery--Jo Ellen knows what its called. We had a little trouble with recouperation time--it was me, not her... and it took several months before she was mostly better.

Two years later, she jumped off our short porch just like Smooch did. A yelp and we knew. So she went back to the specialist and had surgery. Another traditional surgery.
And her recouperation time was still months, but was very easy, as long as we followed directions. Strict bed rest and physical therapy exercises...

Now she runs easily and is very happy. We really can't notice any problem at all with her knees. In fact, we are more cautious then she is!

So yes, its a real pain but the results will be wonderful!


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## mikhal (Nov 24, 2007)

Hi Jo Ellen & Jenny,

Thanks for sharing. The Ortho specialist also noticed what maybe some slight hip displaysia in one of her x-rays. But noted that since the dog doesn't mind it, then it's probably nothing. Will take another hip x-ray when she's knocked out for the surgery on Friday.

Would the both of you mind sharing the cost for your traditional surgery? 
It would be nice to compare.

The surgeon today mentioned that it will take roughly 6 months to get back to 100%. That sucks, cause that means it will be December here in Detroit. Maybe a trip to Austin around x-mas time will make up for it =)

What struck me bad was that he (surgeon) said that Sara probably shouldn't be catching frisbees anymore. That is her favorite sport! He mentioned that the other knee has a 40-60% chance of going in the future (also something I read about and mentioned here). But jogging, walking, hiking and of course, swimming is still good when she recovers.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Sounds like this is all starting to sink in for you  

Daisy's procedures cost somewhere around $1,300 (each knee). I've heard from people who spend much less and far more. It depends on your area and your vet. I would go with someone you trust rather than making cost the deciding factor. 

I have wondered if hip dysplasia can be related to ACL injuries. Daisy has mild hip dysplasia in her left hip, and it was her left knee that went first.

Vacation in December ... that sounds like a great plan 

Everything's going to be okay. It's not fun for awhile, but it's going to be okay.


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## mikhal (Nov 24, 2007)

Update!
Well, Sara underwent surgery yesterday (Friday).
Picked up her at 6:30 pm, and spent one rest-less night with her.
Doc said she did well, but her CCL (or ACL) was indeed completely ruptured.

I thought all was going to be OK, especially since she went potty right before bedtime. I had the stairway blocked off, and pulled out an old mattress to sleep next to her in the living room. Dog on the sofa, me on the mattress on the floor.
All through the night, she was making whining sounds.
I couldn't figure out what she wanted. But I think all she wanted to do was to move around, and she could not get up on her own.
Eventually, I brought her down on the mattress with me and it wasn't until 6 am before I got about 3 hours of straight sleep. I think the only "hour" I wasn't awake for, was 4 o'clock!

Well, when we take her out to the bathroom, I keep a towel under her (by the belly) to ease some weight off her hind legs. She seems to walk OK on 3 legs. Hasn't ate much, and only drank a bit of water. Poor thing.
I hope the first 2-3 weeks go by quickly. Shoot, I hope the first few days will go by quickly!

Mikhal


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

You're over the worst of it now. Did the vet give you any pain meds for these first few days? Daisy whined a lot with her first surgery. The vet said she was just wanting attention. I knew better, I asked for some rimadyl. Once I gave her some pain meds, she settled down, was quiet and got some good sleep -- and so did I!

She's still recovering from the anesthesia, it's going to take a couple of days for her to get all that out of her system and then she'll have her full apetite back, and her spirits 

How are you doing, are you doing okay? It's very stressful, I know.


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## mikhal (Nov 24, 2007)

Yeah, we have a bottle of Tramadol that's taken once every 8 hours.
The second night was much better. I don't know if Sara slept through the whole night, but I sure did!

Looks like she's more "awake" now, and doesn't mind moving so much. Going out to potty or just moving around the house is becoming more common.

I'm doing fine, thanks for asking! It definitely is relieving to see the dog move around a bit more and start to eat and drink more.
When we're outside (bathroom break), she seems to be almost toe-touching the ground when walking. I guess that's a good sign(?).


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## Jenny Wren (Feb 27, 2007)

Hey there...Sara is going to be great. Been through this twice (after the second one, my vet congratulated me--no more to do!) 

You are on your way. Just remember to take it easy. Sara may want to go more than she should. These months are all about building scar tissue--so easy does it...

You are a super momma for doing this for her.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Toe tapping already, that's great. Yes, that's a good sign  Isn't it amazing? 

These first couple of weeks I think you'll find that Sara will pace herself so that it won't be too difficult to keep her calm. It's several weeks out that you need to be careful. I recommend keeping her on a leash outside for the first couple of months, and especially when she starts to feel playful again. 

Check with your vet but after about a month or so I think it should be okay to take short walks - maybe only a block at first. Do you have a small hill with a very gradual incline near you? That's what my vet recommended.

Yay for Sara, I'm happy she's doing so well


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*sarah*

Glad to hear Sarah is doing better.
My 10 yr. old GR Smooch had TPLO Surgery on March 18-to tune of $3600-good thing vet had a Wells Fargo Credit Card with no interest for a year! She put weight on it day after surgery.
Someone suggested we disconnect the doorbell so if someone rang it Smooch wouldn't go charging at door and it was GOOD ADVICE-BECAUSE Someone did ring the bell.

Keep the Cone on her so she doesn't lick her would and get an infection.
That was the hardest thing to do for us because Smooch hated it, but we did for 2 weeks.
My hubby designed a half door for our powder room so we could keep Smooch confined while we were at work We have another dog Snobear, that Smooch would have tried to play with and climb the steps and jump on the couch-all no, no's.

There are harnesses you can buy to support her and someone suggested using a firewood carrier as a sling to help support her backside when going out to do her business.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

I got a firewood carrier to use as a sling the first time around and quickly realized Daisy didn't need the help. She did much better on her own. All we used was a short leash and she was able to get around just fine. She even used the 3 steps on our front porch. Our landlady built us a ramp but she never used it. I eventually learned to relax and let her take care of herself. 

After two ACL surgeries, I definitely think this kind of thing is harder on us than them :


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## mikhal (Nov 24, 2007)

Sara is definitely getting better by the day. She tends to get up and move around the house more. When she does, she's using all 4 legs. But when she stands still, she's only on 3. The vet made it sound like she'll be on 3 legs for a week, and I had to encourage her to toe-touch the ground.

In fact, she's starting to bug me to let her go outside.
Of course, when we do, it's only a quick walk around the backyard to let her go the bathroom.

The doc did mention that we can start walking her after the 3rd week. Start with one house length, then increase as the weeks pass.

As I mentioned before, my vet did not do the surgery. The surgeon left a nice report for me, and I found this to be a bit odd:

"Prognosis: *75% - 85%* of the pets will regain function of their limbs. Arthritis was found to be already present in the knee at the time of surgery. As a result, heavy exercise or weather changes may cause your pet to experience stiffness associated with the knee."

75 to 85%??? Wow, seems like low odds!


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

I've certainly found that to be the case with my golden, after her knee surgeries. Repaired joints just don't seem to ever be exactly the same again. 

BUT, she can run, she can play, she can do everything she used to do. She will get sore and stiff in the evenings now though but it's manageable. A good night's rest and she's brand new again 

Glad to hear your girl is doing so good, she's making it easier for you


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## mikhal (Nov 24, 2007)

Sara is moving around quite a bit now. Even at home. What a difference from day to day. Now, it's going to be challenging to keep her quiet. My house is small, so it shouldn't be an issue for her to get up and move around a bit.

But my neighbors are close, and the lady next door keeps wanting to pet her when we go out for potty break! Sara gets all excited and wants to power her way to the stranger. Of course, I have a towel wrapped around her, and her leash on, so I quickly try to bring her back inside. But that's with Sara trying to muscle her way over. I sure hope no damage was done!

Which leads me to my next question: The doc needs to check up on Sara after 2 weeks. Will the vet try to elicit the drawer motion on her new knee? Won't that break/hurt any of the scar tissue that has just formed? Otherwise, how else can you tell if she broke the sutures?


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

You know, I honestly can't remember what the vet did with Daisy's checkups. I believe they do move the knee a bit to feel the tension (tension is good, means the suture's in place). This won't hurt her.

These are good questions for your vet though, make sure you remember to ask 

With Daisy's first ACL surgery, we were around 5 months out. I took her to the lake, we only stayed a little while. But later that evening, she wouldn't use her leg at all. I was sure she'd torn the suture loose. I was POSITIVE. But I was wrong, her knee was fine. Those sutures are so strong. I know it happens, but it's unlikely she's going to tear it loose. Just don't let her run or climb mountains yet 

I should tell you now, the first time you see Sara run again, you're probably not going to be breathing :


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## mikhal (Nov 24, 2007)

So what had Daisy done to her leg at the lake? And how did you determine the sutures were still in place? A vet visit?


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## Jenny Wren (Feb 27, 2007)

Running is a thing of beauty! You'll see...


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

She didn't do anything at the lake really, it was just our first venture out into the real world ... uneven surfaces, a lot of leash pulling and me pulling her back (that puts a lot of pressure on the back legs), maybe the water was still a little too cold? 

I took her into the vet the very next day, he confirmed her knee was still okay, he reminded me not to try to do too much too soon. Now she can do everything on that leg without any problems, it's very strong 

ACL recovery can be a bit like a rollercoaster at times.


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## mikhal (Nov 24, 2007)

Sara seems to be recovering well. We're past our first week.. She still limps, but manages to walk easily. But now I see where the difficulty lies... She has so much energy and wants to play! Even confined to my living room and kitchen, she constantly gets up to move around or to grab a toy.

It's going to be tough trying to keep her "quiet" for another 2 weeks. At least we're not running around outside.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

With Daisy's 2nd ACL surgery, she developed complications from the anesthesia and developed bloat. 3 episodes over the course of the weekend. I was so scared for her life I wasn't thinking about her knee at all. In and out of the car, to the vet, home from the vet, sometimes two trips in one day. I can't lift her, she had to jump in the car (well, except for the first episode, she couldn't have jumped then, she was in too much pain).

Anyway, we defied all the rules for keeping her quiet. Then after she recovered from the bloat, I just wasn't as worried about her knee anymore, it seemed like such a small thing. And her knee if fine now.

Glad to hear Sara's doing so well


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## mikhal (Nov 24, 2007)

So this weekend was a little strange. 
Friday night, an area under her lower lip was swollen so much, it looked like she had a small ball in stuck between her lip and gums! Within a few hours, the size decreased, and the next morning it completely went away. I just figured a bug may have bit her.

Then today, I knew something was off in the morning since she barely touched her breakfast, and wasn't moving around much. My girlfriend and I left to get groceries, and came back to a pool of puke. In the puke, there was something really tough. Like beef or something, but felt rubbery. Very weird. I have no idea where she got it, since we've been keeping a close eye on her (and on a short leash while outside for potty breaks).

So I figure she was just eat something odd, and threw it back up.

Next, we noticed she kept itching herself in one of her front and rear "under arms". Now it's red, same as if you or me itched a spot on our arms for too much. Bright red, but no blood. The itching continues.... any suggestions?
(Maybe allergy to the antibiotics she's been taking for a week now?? She's also taking Previcox and Cosequin)


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

For the itching, I would try Gold Bond Medicated Powder. You can use it frequently. I've used it myself for irritations and it works well but to relieve the itching, you need to reapply. 

Odd about the swelling and then her throwing up like that. I hate mysteries


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## Jemima (Apr 4, 2009)

Hi

Glad she is doing well, Heidi was not allowed to walk for 7 months after she had ruptured both of her's. We are now back on walks only on her lead, and increasing them daily and now have her up to half an hour once a day. We won't be able to let her off her lead for a while yet, as after lots and lots of what the vet thought were infections, she had to have the sutures from both legs removed as they discovered she was rejecting them. So we are back to square one, but he is really pleased with how her muscles are strengthening up (which he has said will eventually replace the missing ligaments/sutures)
So it does eventually get better, slowly but surely.... Heidi is very happy and that is what really counts when it all boils down.


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## mikhal (Nov 24, 2007)

Hi Jemima,

did your dogs have any symptoms that she was showing to let you guys know she was rejecting the sutures?

I ask that because I'm 2 weeks out of surgery with Sara and she is itching all over and those spots are swelling up. She isn't typically allergic to anything, so I have no idea what it is.


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## mikhal (Nov 24, 2007)

For those who care... another Update!

We are about 4 weeks out of surgery now.
At 2.5 weeks, she developed some crazy itchy rash. Stopped the Previcox and Cosequin and about 5 days later the itching stopped. Really strange, I think it's the Previcox but not entirely sure. The itching stopped with the help of Bendryl.

Now we're at 4 weeks post op. She walks very well, and can do stairs without problems. However, I've noticed substantial muscle loss on her operated leg (I guess that's expected?) and when she stands still, she carries her leg in the air and just barely touches it on the ground. 
Seems strange that she can walk fairly well, but holds her trouble leg up in the air while standing.

Just today though, she's been itching the incision. No idea why it's itchy all of a sudden, but the itching caused it to bleed. Now I've got to the stick cone on her head again, which she hates.

Mikhal


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

Sounds like she is doing pretty good. Maybe aloe vera or Gold Bond will help with the itching.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

The incision is still healing, probably down deep by now. That's why it's itching. If this itching is deep, I'm not sure what will help, except maybe benadryl? Ask your vet, they'll probably recommend the cone though.

Sounds like she's doing really well. Stairs already, that's great  Muscle loss, yes that's common. Have you been able to start short slow walks yet? Find a gentle hill, that will help restore some of the muscle tone. Is there a place where she can do some swimming?


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## mikhal (Nov 24, 2007)

Hi everyone, I found this old thread that I started, and wanted to give an update.

Sara is about 2 weeks shy of 4 months from ACL surgery.
She was healing very quickly, but developed allergies to the self-dissolving sutures. After that (knock on wood) everything has been OK.
I have been taking her swimming at least 2 times a week for about 2-3 weeks now.
The days where we don't go swimming, we'll go for a short walk once a day.

She doesn't limp anymore, but still favors the operated leg.
When she sits, she'll often tuck her entire leg under. 
Other times, the leg will stick out rather than neatly bent like her good leg.
It still worries me, because there was a few accidents where while backing away from another dog (during a walk), she backed up quickly and her leg folded under her. It looked awful! But she didn't limp after that...

I'm always super paranoid that something's wrong with her recovery!


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Thanks for the update, Mikhal. Sounds like she's doing good.

I'm pretty sure if something happens to the ligament they put in, you will notice it right away. It would be like before she had surgery.

In my experience, it takes a good year to see that leg really strong again so that she's not favoring it anymore. 

And it's going to take you just as long to feel comfortable again. I keep telling you that LOL.

Sounds like she's doing great. Keep up what you're doing, and the swimming is wonderful. That's the best thing for her right now


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## mikhal (Nov 24, 2007)

Thanks for the words of encouragement!
I'm just super cautious when it comes to these doggies... wish they could just tell us if something was wrong, or if everything was alright!

For those that have had ACL surgeries on your dog(s), did it take a while for your Golden to sit properly? I've attached a picture of Sara. You will notice that her right leg sticks out (it's either this position shown or it folded underneath her).
Does it just take a while to get her flexibility back, or do I need to help her flex that knee properly?


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Now that I think about it, Daisy does sit with her leg out like that. But she's had both knees done. I'll have to pay more attention and see if it's more often her right (that was the one she had surgery on the last time).

You're probably thinking I'm a little weird, being so casual and not noticing things like that. But right after I brought her home from her surgery, she got really really sick (from the anesthesia I believe) and almost died. I forgot all about her knee, and then after the vets brought her back around, it just never seemed that important again. It seemed minor then, relatively speaking.

I do believe the walking and swimming will be enough exercise for her. Don't rush it. Time is your friend


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