# Looking for a Breeder, and Wanting Full Registration...



## uhmanda00 (Aug 3, 2008)

I am looking for a reputable Golden Retriever breeder. I want a female puppy with full registration, and I plan to show in conformation and obedience and possibly field trials. If all health health checks through the OFA and CERF come back normal and if I believe breeding her to a stud of equal or greater quality would improve the breed, I would love to do that as well.

I live in Oklahoma, and I am very interested in River Run Goldens. Here is their website: River Run Goldens Oklahoma Golden Retriever Breeder for the best quality puppies ...but I am also asking for other recommendations. I have noticed that many breeders only sell pups on limited registration, but I want to show and breed.

I have been a dog trainer for several years, and I have titled my Golden, Lucy, in obedience and rally. We also did therapy dog work for many years after passing the CGC and TDI tests. She had one litter of puppies, 7 years ago, but then I became more educated about health checks and the breed... so she only had that one litter. She is now 10.5 years old and my best friend. I plan to use my experience in training, competing, and therapy work to take my next puppy to the best of her potential.

I greatly appreciate your feedback.


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

Maybe get involved in the clubs and find someone to mentor you. Then go from there.


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## MGMF (May 13, 2009)

Many breeders will start you off with limited registration with the option to change. If you and your dog show you have what it takes to commit to the breed ring they may change it for you down the road. Limited registrations still allow you to compete in Obedience, Tracking, Field Trials, Hunting Tests, Herding, Lure Coursing, Agility and Earthdog. Limited registrations can be changed at any time.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

MGMF said:


> Many breeders will start you off with limited registration with the option to change. If you and your dog show you have what it takes to commit to the breed ring they may change it for you down the road. Limited registrations still allow you to compete in Obedience, Tracking, Field Trials, Hunting Tests, Herding, Lure Coursing, Agility and Earthdog. Limited registrations can be changed at any time.


^ I was thinking about this and feel this is a fabulous option.  It's better than chancing a fully registered dog falling into the hands of somebody who is gungho about competing in everything with the dog when they buy the puppy, but fails to follow through with any of that.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

When talking to breeders I would strongly discourage you from leading with "I want a female puppy and I want full registration because I intend to breed." I can't imagine that will receive many positive responses from reputable breeders. I remember when we were initially looking for Jack (my first show dog) I didn't realize that I didn't need to talk about that, obviously breeders know that a show puppy is generally sold on full registration. That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if the breeder wants to remain on the puppy as a co-owner since you are relatively new to the breed. Many breeders (at least in my area, not sure how it is in other parts of the country) will not just let a puppy (especially a bitch) go out into the world with someone new to conformation on full registration without co-owning. Some will not sell a show puppy at all without co-ownership. Be careful and make sure you read the contracts carefully before committing to anything. Some co-owns (like the one we have on Jack) are very straightforward - he is co-owned until he finishes his championship (or if it's determined he won't finish for some reason and is neutered) and other than being on him in name as a co-owner, they have no actual rights to him at any time (i.e. breeding rights, right of possession, etc). Our Chloe's is a little more complicated, but ultimately it resulted in us paying $0 for her in exchange for one puppy back to the breeder down the road if she is bred. Some contracts I've seen require multiple puppies back to the breeder, some require you use a certain handler....which I think is a bit ridiculous. My point is, just make sure you know what you're getting yourself into and read the contract very carefully.


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## uhmanda00 (Aug 3, 2008)

I understand why breeders choose to have their puppies on limited registration, and I am very aware that it can be changed to full registration at any time. I am concerned about something happening to the breeder, or simply them choosing not to change it because of competition in the ring or with their breeding program. If I spend $2000 to purchase my pup, I would truly like to own her. My life has been consumed with golden retrievers and working with dogs, I am very determined, and I have thought long and hard about my decision. If anyone has any recommendations for breeders who give the option of selling with full registration, or if anyone knows of breeders who make certain exceptions for selling a puppy with full registration, that would be helpful. Thank you.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I would check with Sharon Bolton of Benden Golden Retrievers. She is in OK.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

I think you're missing the point a bit. The (theoretical) breeder doesn't know you at all. If they sell a show puppy (at least in my area) it will be on full registration. Generally their concern with full registration would be that the person is buying the puppy to be a breeding machine. I don't think that's your intent, but if I were a breeder that would be my concern with any person I didn't know asking for full registration. 

We agreed to co-own Jack because we were new to the breed, new to conformation and wanted to re-assure his breeders that we were not buying him to start a puppy mill. We co-own Chloe for other reasons, but they are both still our dogs. Breeding decisions with Chloe are made jointly, but we are very close with her breeder/co-owner (I literally talk to him almost every day) and we talked at length about potential situations that may arise. All those situations were addressed in the contract. I'd be more than happy to email the contract and another I prepared for another breeder (I'm an attorney) to you if you'd like to see them as examples of co-own contracts I think are drafted in a way that is fair to both parties. Not that you have to co-own, but I'd be prepared for a lengthy interview process if a breeder agrees to sell you a puppy on full registration without it. And, like I said, make sure you read the contract closely to make sure you aren't inadvertently agreeing to something you aren't expecting, like a puppy back from every litter or a clause that requires the use of a certain handler.


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## uhmanda00 (Aug 3, 2008)

goldenjackpuppy, I appreciate your reply and advice. I am not looking to breed a female for money whatsoever! I understand how me saying what I did came across as negative. I have not spoken with any breeders, I came here first for advice. I am fine with a co-ownership for a limited amount of time, such as the one you have with Jack or Chloe. And I know I only mentioned Lucy, but I have owned goldens my entire life, so I am not new to the breed, just new to the conformation ring. I appreciate your help!


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

I wasn't trying to be snarky at all and I apologize if it came across that way. I'm just giving you an idea of what to expect since I was in your shoes about 2 years ago.


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## uhmanda00 (Aug 3, 2008)

goldenjackpuppy, I was typing my response PRIOR to reading your first post on here. My apologies. 

loisiana, I have heard of Sharon Bolton, and I have came across a few dogs that came from her. I have considered her, as well. Thank you for your recommendation.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

uhmanda00 said:


> goldenjackpuppy, I was typing my response PRIOR to reading your first post on here. My apologies.


No problem.


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## uhmanda00 (Aug 3, 2008)

goldenjackpuppy said:


> I'm just giving you an idea of what to expect since I was in your shoes about 2 years ago.


Do you mind sharing what breeders you got Jack and Chloe from?


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

uhmanda00 said:


> Do you mind sharing what breeders you got Jack and Chloe from?


Both are from breeders in California. Jack is from Scotts 24k Goldens and Chloe is from Cabot Ridge Golden Retrievers.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

uhmanda00 said:


> And I know I only mentioned Lucy, but I have owned goldens my entire life, so I am not new to the breed, just new to the conformation ring. I appreciate your help!


Although you may have had Goldens for years, you are still new to the conformation world, that is the point here. 

A breeder who is breeding for the show ring will have one maybe two potential Champions, the ones that would be considered breeding quality. They want those dogs to be campaigned in the show ring. They are quite likely to keep one for themselves so they may have one show quality pup to place and they want to place that dog in a home they know will show. So who do they go with, a person they know personally and who they know has been successful in the show ring, or a person who they have never met and they have no evidence that they will go through all the work to show the dog.

In short, you will likely have to prove yourself to a breeder before they will sell you a potential show pup and if you don't have to prove yourself, they probably not the breeder you want to go with!:wavey:


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## uhmanda00 (Aug 3, 2008)

Selli-Belle said:


> In short, you will likely have to prove yourself to a breeder before they will sell you a potential show pup and if you don't have to prove yourself, they probably not the breeder you want to go with!:wavey:


I appreciate your advice, and you most definitely have a great point! Now that you have told me WHAT I need to do, please share with me HOW you think I need to go about it...


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

uhmanda00 said:


> I appreciate your advice, and you most definitely have a great point! Now that you have told me WHAT I need to do, please share with me HOW you think I need to go about it...


First off do you know any Golden people from doing rally and obedience? Some obedience people also do conformation, or at least know people who do, so talk to them. 

Then go to some meetings of your local Golden Retriever Club and get involved (volunteer) with some of their events you will meet and have plenty of time to talk with breeders. This has to be they BEST way to get to know breeders and to find out who you want to work with. Your relationship with your breeder is critical, especially since you will want to have a mentor when and if you decide to breed. To a certain extent being able to get along and work with your breeder is more important than the actual dog you get.

Conformation is a whole different world than obedience, luckily a good Golden can do it all.


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## uhmanda00 (Aug 3, 2008)

Selli-Belle, Thank you.


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## Jige (Mar 17, 2011)

I have my pup on limited registration until I title him in something. It could be hunt, obedience, rally or agility. There is nothing wrong with limited. Once all the health clearances are in and okay and I have title he is mine and we can then do AKC conformation. He will only 2yrs old not too old for the show ring at all. I would think that you would want the best from your breeder and they want to give you limited until you title the dog and health test than so be it.


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## uhmanda00 (Aug 3, 2008)

General V said:


> I have my pup on limited registration until I title him in something. It could be hunt, obedience, rally or agility. There is nothing wrong with limited. Once all the health clearances are in and okay and I have title he is mine and we can then do AKC conformation. He will only 2yrs old not too old for the show ring at all. I would think that you would want the best from your breeder and they want to give you limited until you title the dog and health test than so be it.


I would be totally fine with something like this! I completely understand this reasoning, and it suits both the breeder and the puppy buyer. Where did you get your pup from?


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## Jige (Mar 17, 2011)

My boy came Top Flight Kennels in WI. I have no idea when Sue will be doing another breeding.


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## vleffingwell (Jan 12, 2011)

Do you know what judges look for as far as conformation? I just purchased a DVD from GRCA about structure and movement by Rachael Page Elliott. Very very informative. You will want to watch it a few times then start looking at stud dogs and bitches then determine what you think will win. I have seen many with no chest, long necks and some that just don't match front to back. Very beautiful stud dogs and an ok bitch will not make a champion - from my experience! I have a female with no bone - very little skinny legs, very straight in the front which makes her tall. Still a wonderful golden but not for the show ring.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I would strongly suggest you attend some all breed shows and/or golden specialties, even if it means you have to travel a bit of a distance. It's the best way there is to meet a LOT of breeders at once, see what's winning in the show ring, and get to know some people. You will make many valuable contacts there, and then can decide which breeder you have a mutual "good feeling" with.


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

I am new to conformation, my first conformation dog is 15 months old. I just wanted to recommend finding a breeder that is pretty close to you if possible. I feel extremely lucky that his breeder is 25 minutes away and the stud dog owner is under 3 hours away. They give me so much help, advice, and support that is needed when you're just starting in this venue. I'm by no means a competent groomer yet, and both will take the time to teach me and groom my dog before a show. They also come to many local shows and introduce me to other golden people and so on. It is really nice to have someone local in my opinion!

Since you've never competed in conformation, it may be hard for you to find someone willing to give a pick bitch on full registration. It may also be more realistic to get a pick male than a female because the breeder usually keeps pick bitch or reserves it for a breeder/friend where they know the dog will be shown to it's CH. Why not join your local GR club, attend events, make friends, and choose a breeder from within the club to mentor you. There is a lot to learn!


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