# Senior dog with dementia - what to do for the best?



## GoldieMad

My wife and I have always said that when any of our dogs are obviously suffering and their life is affected negatively with no hope of cure then we would always put his needs first and have him put down if necessary.

We're in a bit of a quandry though - Ben is very nearly 14 and for the past few months has been showing increasing signs of dog dementia. He's been checked over thoroughly by the vet and various mediations tried for older dogs with dementia, but they have had little or no effect.

He's NOT aggressive, but his main symptoms are:

- suddenly, as if a switch has been flipped, he will become very animated and start pacing in a very determined way and simply will not settle down - this can last for anything from a few minutes to a few hours. During these times he seems very focussed, but it's hard to say what on. He doesn't seem to want to do anything in particular, although if he is let outside he seems perhaps more relaxed. Having said that, if he's inside and my wife and myself are out of sight (or in a room with the door shut - the bathroom for example) then if he's having one of his 'spells' he will scratch and paw at the door (and other doors).
- when the above occurs then he often pants a LOT, often very rapidly and appears excited. Sometimes though he will shake a fair bit, but not for too long.
- sometimes he appears almost as if he's being mischievous and wags his tail when he is, for example, scratching at a door
- we have tried various sedatives (prescribed by the vet) but these barely work - he always 'fights' them - you can tell they are having an effect (third eyelids showing for example, acting sleepy) but he won't let them make him rest. We now don't give him sedatives. It seems 'wrong' somehow.

Lately he has been doing all the above a fair bit more than usual. Our dilemma is that my wife and I can't decide if he's distressed or not. Obviously he's distressed when he's shaking, but how about when he's pacing rapidly and panting like mad for no apparent reason?

It's incredibly frustrating - we want to do our best for him yet we don't seem able to do anything at all. On the selfish side, he is disturbing our sleep (and that of our other animals) so leading my wife and myself to be irritable with each other and the dogs.

He seems to go through phases of a few days being more likely to become 'animated' as described above and then a few days where he's far more relaxed.

He can and will relax at times, he seems fairly playful at times, but the 'animated' episodes are happening more often and seemingly lasting longer when they occur.

So what to do for the best? I realise it's hard to ask this and the answer will probably be that only my wife and I can really tell when it's time. But even so, I would very much welcome some advice please.

Do we stick with the problem? Do we have him put down now before it gets any worse, or wait for it to get bad before making the ultimate decision?

It's very hard and ultimately is a 'lose lose' situation.

It's all very distressing (at least for us) and very sad.

Many thanks


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom

Dr Shawn Messonier DVM has a section on choline and lecithin for "senility" in older dogs in his book, "Natural Health Bible for Dogs and Cats". There have been studies showing marked improvement in cognition. Cholodin is a supplement that can be given.... he sites 4 tabs daily for a large dog. PLEASE look into and research this before making any drastic decisions. I so hope this can help.


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## Jackson'sMom

I have no suggestions to offer, but I'm so sorry your beloved pup is going through this.


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## tippykayak

You're right that the first thing I would say is that only you can know right when it's time. It may be that it's time right now and you need to hear that it's OK to let him go. It really may be that time.

If it were me, I'd ask myself if he's really still happy at all or if he's mostly confused and agitated. How much normal time is there relative to these spells?

I'd look him in the eyes and ask him, "Are you lost in there? Do you need to go?" and I'd search those eyes and my own heart. Depending on the answer I got, I might just have to let him go.

Just remember: if you let him go because you believe he isn't happy anymore, you're not giving up. Quite the contrary, you're doing something incredibly hard because you're putting your dog's best interests ahead of your need to have him by your side.

It might help to share some pictures and stories of Ben at his best. I can't say that works for everyone during these tough times, but I know it does for many of us. Remembering our dogs at their most silly, mischievous, noble, or beautiful and sharing those memories is a very healing experience. Plus, we love sugar-faced old Goldens.


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## Ljilly28

I remember Ben from other threads about this. I can't add anything new, except more sympathy for the common ground. Joplin, at 15, would really keep me up hour after hour with the pacing. I think it is akin to sundowner syndrome in humans. Does Ben still enjoy his old loves? Joplin retained his amusement with three tennis balls, and was quite a happy boy during the day. Though he ate weird things he would never have considered in his right-minded younger days, he kept his quality of life pretty high until his final day. Can you tether Ben to your bed so he cannot pace and wander? I am sure you've tried that. Could he be having a flycatcher or partial seizure(s)?Could you feed him a nice big meal before bed so he is sleepy& content? Give him a Kong or bone only at night so you can sleep and he'll be busy? I know you've tried all these things- you are lucky to have your boy so long, but I totally feel for the sadness of watching the dog pace and seem frantic, and not be able to help -plus no sleep.Best wishes for you and Ben.


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## GoldieMad

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> Dr Shawn Messonier DVM has a section on choline and lecithin for "senility" in older dogs in his book, "Natural Health Bible for Dogs and Cats". There have been studies showing marked improvement in cognition. Cholodin is a supplement that can be given.... he sites 4 tabs daily for a large dog. PLEASE look into and research this before making any drastic decisions. I so hope this can help.


Thanks for the advice. I'm afraid that we have already tried Choline for a few months to no effect.


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## GoldieMad

tippykayak said:


> You're right that the first thing I would say is that only you can know right when it's time. It may be that it's time right now and you need to hear that it's OK to let him go. It really may be that time.
> 
> If it were me, I'd ask myself if he's really still happy at all or if he's mostly confused and agitated. How much normal time is there relative to these spells?


When he's awake and NOT 'agitated' I'd say that less than 50% is 'quality' time. For example, at this very moment he's awake and has been agitated for a couple of hours. He's settled down a fair bit but isn't properly settled and is sitting and staring at me. He's not panting though.

He still enjoys his food and also his trip to the beach every day for half an hour. Also, when the mood takes him, him enjoys mounting my two younger dogs (one is nearly a year old, the other just over two years - both male goldies).

He won't really play though - mounting the other dogs is about his 'play' limit these days.



> I'd look him in the eyes and ask him, "Are you lost in there? Do you need to go?" and I'd search those eyes and my own heart. Depending on the answer I got, I might just have to let him go.
> 
> Just remember: if you let him go because you believe he isn't happy anymore, you're not giving up. Quite the contrary, you're doing something incredibly hard because you're putting your dog's best interests ahead of your need to have him by your side.
> 
> It might help to share some pictures and stories of Ben at his best. I can't say that works for everyone during these tough times, but I know it does for many of us. Remembering our dogs at their most silly, mischievous, noble, or beautiful and sharing those memories is a very healing experience. Plus, we love sugar-faced old Goldens.


Thanks, some good words of advice there.

In some ways I think if we do let him go it will be for selfish reasons (getting a good night's sleep for example) - of course it's not as simple as that, but it's that which I will beat myself up about in my darker and most guilt-stricken moments. Ultimately though I don't like to see him 'not himself' and arguably distressed.


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## FlyingQuizini

Like others have said, it's true that only you will know when it's time - and if your heart tells you that now is the time, that's okay - and remember that you're doing a beautiful thing for your Ben.

I think for me personally, it would depend on how much of his day is able to be spent doing what he likes - even if that's snoozing on the sofa vs. being agitated combined with what are the risks that during a spell of agitation, he might harm himself?

If you want to try something for the agitation, ask your vet to try Xanex. I use it for noise phobias and the reason I love it is that the dogs never appear drugged. They can still *function* and can also deal better mentally with the scary noise, etc. I way prefer Xanex over Ace.

Big hugs to you all...


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## GoldieMad

Ljilly28 said:


> I remember Ben from other threads about this. I can't add anything new, except more sympathy for the common ground. Joplin, at 15, would really keep me up hour after hour with the pacing. I think it is akin to sundowner syndrome in humans. Does Ben still enjoy his old loves? Joplin retained his amusement with three tennis balls, and was quite a happy boy during the day. Though he ate weird things he would never have considered in his right-minded younger days, he kept his quality of life pretty high until his final day. Can you tether Ben to your bed so he cannot pace and wander? I am sure you've tried that. Could he be having a flycatcher or partial seizure(s)?Could you feed him a nice big meal before bed so he is sleepy& content? Give him a Kong or bone only at night so you can sleep and he'll be busy? I know you've tried all these things- you are lucky to have your boy so long, but I totally feel for the sadness of watching the dog pace and seem frantic, and not be able to help -plus no sleep.Best wishes for you and Ben.


Thanks. A Kong is a good idea, but once he's finished licking out the peanut butter (or whatever) then 10 minutes later that's that. A meal is a good idea but I'd then worry that he needed to go out in the middle of the night or have an accident (so far so good in that department).

He doesn't really play any more - he likes to meet people and sometimes other dogs, plus he likes mounting my other two goldies, but that's about it I'm afraid.

I think his quality of life is slowly diminishing, but it's so hard to know when it's time to let go.


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## heartofgold

Betty has some very good advise. 

If he doesn't seem to be in any pain during these episodes and he is not harming you or your other animals then I would not personally put him down. 

When you say he shakes for awhile do you think he is having seizures? 

My husbands cocker spaniel always got very hyper and wanted to be with someone when a seizure was about to come on. She (unlike humans) could sense up to an hour before she was going into a seizure and would act very much like you describe your dog.

Hope you can make him more comfortable.


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## goldensmum

We went through a very similar experience with Ginny. She had good days and not so good days. We too had her checked by our vet and he could find nothing "physically" wrong. After we lost Ralph, she would never tolerate a door closed if she knew we were on the other side of it, and so both her and Holly used to sleep at the side of our bed, Some nights, we would send them into the garden for their last wee, and then go to bed, but within minutes Ginny would be wanting to go out - and she would not give up until we let her out. She would wander around the garden and then come back inside and back to bed. Sometimes she did this 3 or 4 times before she eventually settled. We put up with it because we knew it wasn't her fault. Don't know about the shaking, because Ginny never did it, but I'm not sure the sedation is right especially as you say if Ben is fighting it. She would stand and pant and seem as if she was in her own little world, and to a point she was - although being partly deaf may have had something to do with that -.
and we were concerned that perhaps she was in pain, but our vet said that it was likely that she was even aware that she was doing it On a couple of occasions when for no obvious reason Ginny had a bout of screaming (again she was checked by a vet but could find no reason) i did give her Bach's rescue remedy and that did calm her without sedation. It may be worth giving this a try.

Ginny was about the same age as Ben when we first noticed the change in her, and she was nearly 16 when we lost her (not related to the dementia). Obviously there is only you and your wife will know when the time is right, but all I will say is don't rush into a decision that you may regret, as Penny and Maggies Mom has said, look for natural aides and see if you can help your boy.

Good luck and hugs to Ben


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## tippykayak

Dog-drops said:


> In some ways I think if we do let him go it will be for selfish reasons (getting a good night's sleep for example) - of course it's not as simple as that, but it's that which I will beat myself up about in my darker and most guilt-stricken moments. Ultimately though I don't like to see him 'not himself' and arguably distressed.


But you aren't selfish. You're here hashing it out, trying solution after solution to buy him a few more weeks or days or hours. It's obvious to me, a total stranger on the internet, that you aren't the type of person to euthanize a dog for your own convenience. You think of your dog as an individual with a personality and a life of value.

If you're at 50% good and 50% bad, then you're around the line where you have to ask yourself that most awful of questions, and you're doing exactly that. I think you'll know when it's time, and it sounds like it may be soon. Letting your dog go isn't letting him down; don't forget that. He wouldn't want you to torture yourself, and if you want to do something for him, then don't beat yourself up.


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## Pointgold

Only you know him well enough to determine whether he is happy and maintains his dignity. My promise to my dogs has always been the same as yours, and the greatest gift of love we can give them is to let them go when it is time.
I do not envy you your decision, I had that difficult task too often.
My prayers are with you.


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## GoldieMad

heartofgold said:


> Betty has some very good advise.
> 
> If he doesn't seem to be in any pain during these episodes and he is not harming you or your other animals then I would not personally put him down.
> 
> When you say he shakes for awhile do you think he is having seizures?
> 
> My husbands cocker spaniel always got very hyper and wanted to be with someone when a seizure was about to come on. She (unlike humans) could sense up to an hour before she was going into a seizure and would act very much like you describe your dog.
> 
> Hope you can make him more comfortable.


He's definitely not having a seizure when he's shaking - usually he is sitting up and just acting very nervous and trembling a lot. He's done the same before when he didn't have dementia, and it was always down to a loud bang (he hates fireworks, car doors slamming - anything that goes bang really!) but now he shakes for no apparent reason. I do think his hearing is going too, along with his eyesight (but he still seems to hear us and gets around okay). Sometimes though he looks around as if startled by a sound that we haven't heard. He will also often look in the WRONG direction when he hears a sound, as if he can't figure out where it came from. This too is a recent development.

I don't think he's in any pain, but dogs (and cats) can be pretty good at masking pain.

He's always been a slightly 'nervy' dog, what with his reactions to bangs, etc. I'd describe him as sensitive. He's a lovely dog though.

Oh, and he has arthritis which he is being treated for and which doesn't trouble him as much as it used to.


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## missmarstar

I have to agree with everything tippykayak has said in both posts. It's the hardest decision to make.. but know in your heart that when you do make that decision, it is the best one. I'm so sorry you are going through this..


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## heartofgold

tippykayak said:


> But you aren't selfish. You're here hashing it out, trying solution after solution to buy him a few more weeks or days or hours. It's obvious to me, a total stranger on the internet, that you aren't the type of person to euthanize a dog for your own convenience. You think of your dog as an individual with a personality and a life of value.
> 
> If you're at 50% good and 50% bad, then you're around the line where you have to ask yourself that most awful of questions, and you're doing exactly that. I think you'll know when it's time, and it sounds like it may be soon. Letting your dog go isn't letting him down; don't forget that. He wouldn't want you to torture yourself, and if you want to do something for him, then don't beat yourself up.


I totally agree with you. I didn't realize he was like this 50% of the time. That is a lot for an old boy to go through, his poor body must be so tired. 

I would say to take it one day at a time, I think he will have a way of telling you when it's time.


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## Jackson'sMom

Ask Ben. That may sound silly, but ask him. He will tell you when it's time. My dogs always have.


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## GoldieMad

heartofgold said:


> I totally agree with you. I didn't realize he was like this 50% of the time. That is a lot for an old boy to go through, his poor body must be so tired.
> 
> I would say to take it one day at a time, I think he will have a way of telling you when it's time.


50% of when he's awake I mean, ie about (or slightly less) than 50% of his waking time he seems happy. The rest of his waking time is spent being agitated (less so during the day as a rule) or simply sitting (or standing) and staring or, as is the case now, he's lying down looking really tired yet is struggling to stay awake.

When he does sleep he sleeps well, the thing is that he seems to sleep the most during the day, it's during the night that he has his most agitated spells (although, as mentioned, he's not like this every night - I guess it just seems more noticeable at night as he's then waking up everyone else).

It's all very variable and difficult to 'do justice to' in words as it changes so much. It's very hard to be unbiased and look at it all objectively.


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## GoldieMad

Jackson'sMom said:


> Ask Ben. That may sound silly, but ask him. He will tell you when it's time. My dogs always have.


I just asked him. He stared at me. Oh, and one of the other dogs wandered up wagging his tail and wondering what I was up to.


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## tippykayak

Dog-drops said:


> I don't think he's in any pain, but dogs (and cats) can be pretty good at masking pain.
> 
> Oh, and he has arthritis which he is being treated for and which doesn't trouble him as much as it used to.


I agree with you. We don't always realize how much pain they're in because they get used to it and deal with it so stoically. I'm certainly with all the folks that have suggested not being hasty, but I know you've been looking for solutions for a while and things have gradually gotten worse. 

And I wholeheartedly agree with PG that the dog's dignity is an important factor to consider. 

I'll share that when I put Gus down, it was before lymphoma had laid him completely low. It had made him blind and lethargic, covered him with itchy lumps, and sapped his muscle and strength, but he was not at death's door when we put him down. Chemo might have bought us a few months of relative health. Many dogs cope wonderfully with blindness and lead full lives. But I had to look my dog in the face and ask him if it was right to string him along, uncomfortable and blind and waiting for the lights to come on.

I can't explain how powerfully I wanted to put him on chemo and have him around to snuggle at least a few more nights or even weeks. But for the six days he was blind, he would just sit on the couch and wait. He would follow us around, even go up and down stairs if we tapped them and let him use his hearing, and he even wagged his tail from time to time if he heard a friendly voice.

But I knew I couldn't do it to him just so I could have him a little while longer. I couldn't make him a little better for a little while just to return him to that misery. So we spoiled him rotten while he could still enjoy it and let him go right before things got really bad. I feel like the timing was just right, and he was able to end his life with dignity and comfort.

Just as a side note, since my post is about how we didn't choose chemo: there are many, many situations with lymphoma where I would have treated with aggressive chemo, particularly with B-cell lymphoma at earlier stages where an almost-full recovery is possible and even likely. But Gus's recovery prognosis was particularly grim, and chemo would not have brought about a substantial improvement in symptoms, so it didn't make sense in our situation.


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## tippykayak

PS - I knew it was time when I said good night to Gus and I found myself telling him it was OK if he had to go during the night, that I would be alright without him. That's when I knew the selfish thing would have been fighting to keep him around. That was my experience with his "telling" me.


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## GoldieMad

So sorry to hear about Gus.

Given that Ben's problem is apparently a mental one, that's what makes it so much harder - there's nothing physical that you can 'see', except for, of course, his altered behaviour. He's still Ben of course, but at times he acts so differently it's hard to say that he really IS Ben, if you see what I mean.

Looking on the bright side, at least he's not aggressive and not, apparently, in any pain.

Ben is now sitting ('hiding') behind my chair as he now does from time to time. Again, I have no idea why he does this.


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## Thor0918

I can feel the tears and the lump in my throat knowing what you are going through. All of the advice is sound. My thoughts are with you. Although it's a tough decision sometimes it's the kindest one for our pups. I agree that you'll know. I don't know how but, you will.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo

If he is still getting meds for agitation, what time is he getting them? My son suffered from anxiety and ADD. He had to be medicated at a certain time so he wouldn't be overly excited of fall asleep in school. When humans or animals are on meds, you do a dance to get the timing and doses just right.

As for the scratching, this is exactly what my healthy 6 year old GR does. He only does this when he's anxious. This usually happens from when he smells a certain scent. If something should burn off the coils of the stove, he wants in a closest (I don't know why he beats up my husband's closest door) or outside. It was so bad once he tried to get through the glass panes.

Do they give dogs Zoloft? I know my sister has dementia or early cognitive problems, but Zoloft made her much worse. It worked wonders for my son. His anxiety was almost nil.


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## MyBaileyGirl

I have no advice (I have a grandma with severe dementia, although she's a human-I feel like I'm experiencing very similar pain as what you're feeling), I can only offer lots of prayers and good thoughts. I'm so sorry you're going through this.


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## GoldieMad

Kimm - he's currently on a medication called 'Aktivait' for his dementia, plus the 'Hill B/D' (Brain Diet) food for older dogs.

We have tried other things, as well as Cholodin (Choline).

None seem to make any appreciable difference irrespective of the time we give him the meds.

Thanks for your advice.


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## GoldieMad

MyBaileyGirl said:


> I have no advice (I have a grandma with severe dementia, although she's a human-I feel like I'm experiencing very similar pain as what you're feeling), I can only offer lots of prayers and good thoughts. I'm so sorry you're going through this.


Thanks.

Oh, one thing I meant to say - something that he also does is bark at nothing at all, usually he does this in a particular room (usually though if the room is empty) but it too is intermittent. Sometimes he won't do it for a day or two then will do it once or twice in a day.


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## mylissyk

If he is agitated at night it could be his vision causing the trouble after dark. My beagle at 14 was night blind, and would get lost in corners or out in the yard after dark, walk in circles, run into things, but only at night. She would pace and circle because she couldn't tell where she was. We had to start crating her again at that age so she would settle down and sleep at night. You might try restricting him to the room or like someone else said, at your side.

Does he respond to you when he is that agitated?


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## GoldieMad

mylissyk said:


> If he is agitated at night it could be his vision causing the trouble after dark. My beagle at 14 was night blind, and would get lost in corners or out in the yard after dark, walk in circles, run into things, but only at night. She would pace and circle because she couldn't tell where she was. We had to start crating her again at that age so she would settle down and sleep at night. You might try restricting him to the room or like someone else said, at your side.


This is again where is his actions are somewhat contradictory - for one thing he has these agitated moments even in the day, although far less often.

Yet letting him out, even at night, seems to ease things.

Crating him or shutting him in a room on his own would drive him mad I'm sure - in some respects he appears to want company.



> Does he respond to you when he is that agitated?


Not when he's REALLY bad, no. For example, sometimes he will pace very fast, head low, almost as if he's looking for something (he's not smelling anything though). He's like a caged tiger. When he's like this he won't respond and even if we hold him by his collar he will struggle a bit and want to carry on with his pacing. If we keep a hold on him then he will start to settle, perhaps after a few minutes.

We have also noticed that soothing words and stroking don't work, even when he's not manically agitated - we need to be firm with him and then he is more likely to sit, lie down, whatever. If anything, talking gently to him makes him, for example, pant even faster. I sometimes worry he's going to give himself a heart attack what with his rapid panting during these phases.


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## WLR

Dog-drops said:


> - suddenly, as if a switch has been flipped, he will become very animated and start pacing in a very determined way and simply will not settle down - this can last for anything from a few minutes to a few hours. During these times he seems very focussed, but it's hard to say what on. He doesn't seem to want to do anything in particular, although if he is let outside he seems perhaps more relaxed. Having said that, if he's inside and my wife and myself are out of sight (or in a room with the door shut - the bathroom for example) then if he's having one of his 'spells' he will scratch and paw at the door (and other doors).
> - when the above occurs then he often pants a LOT, often very rapidly and appears excited. Sometimes though he will shake a fair bit, but not for too long.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

It sounds to me like his blood sugar is crashing for some reason.
Thyroid issue ?
I would either give him some ice cream, preferably (something that doesnt have too many chemicals in it) like vanilla HagenDaz or give him a 1/4 tablet of glucose. You can get that in a pharmacy otc. 
After that you should see a difference in less than 10 min. 
This all works well with my terrier after he has a seizure and crashes his blood sugar. He also does the excessive paceing & panting.


.


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## GoldieMad

Interesting suggestion, thanks.

You say try a quarter of a glucose tablet, but that of course depends on the size of the tablet. Naturally I don't yet know what I'll be getting, so what quantity/doseage is a quarter of a tablet?

One problem we have is that when he is very animated/agitated he doesn't have any interest in food, but he does like peanut butter so perhaps I could mix the glucose with some of that .........


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo

Peanut butter is a good thing to mix it with if he has no trouble swallowing. I've had diabetes going on 46 years and peanut butter raises my b/s. You can also test your dog's b/s with instructions from your Vet, if you know someone who has a meter.


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## GoldieMad

Does peanut butter have enough glucose/sugar in it to raise his blood sugar level on its own, or would he need an awful lot of it to have the same effect as a quarter of a glucose tablet?


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom

BTW, you can get a glucose gel also if that would be easier. Your pharmacy should have a section with all sorts of diabetes supplies and both the tabs and gel should be there. Honey could work too.


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## coppers-mom

I don't have advice about the dementia - just my sincere sympathy. It has to be hard to deal with.
If you fill the Kong with peanut butter and then freeze it, it will last a lot longer. I had a golden who could empty a kong in 10 minutes unless you froze it. Maybe that would keep Ben occupied longer.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo

It doesn't take much to raise my blood sugar, but then I take very little insulin, too. I'm very sensitive to what goes in and what goes out. I don't know how many glucose tablets you would need either. It may be more than one. I'm not sure. Has your Vet tested for diabetes?

I don't know how reliable this site is, but they mention a few drops of corn syrup. The gel will do the same thing. I'm not too fond of glucose tablets myself...I know they use the icing to write names on cakes in some nursing homes. It is squirted into the side of the cheek so people don't choke. Not sure if it's good for dogs.
http://www.ehow.com/how_2069770_care-diabetic-dog.html


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## mygarnetboy

My vet has a general rule of thumb that when the poor quality of life is more than the good quality of life, it's time. When our old beagle boy became incredibly agitated--I started to think the time was near. The day he woke up and refused food--I knew the day was here.

You'll know when it's time. Lots of hugs to you, it's such a hard, hard thing.


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## Karen519

*Dog-Drops*

Dog-Drops:

Have you discussed the symptoms BEN is having with the vet and asked his/her opinion as to do they think this is suffering for him?

We had a Samoyed, named Gizmo, who had bloat, had emergency surgery for it, and I think because of the amount of time in between when he first showed the signs and the ride to the emergency vet and the diagnosis-perhaps some brain damage had occured. Hindsight is always 20/20 and Ken and I often said that if we had known Gizmo would have been "confused and going through dementia, after the surgery, he also hobbled much more than he had before, he also had arthritis, we probably would have sent him to the Rainbow Bridge." Gizmo did live another 9 months after the surgery and it was just hard to watch him get in between the couch and the coffee table and not know how to get out. Gizmo was about 12 1/2 when he went to the Rainbow Bridge. Suddenly one day he tripped coming into the house and layed on the couch and was unable to stand on his own and wouldn't eat. We knew it was time.

This is such a personal decision, so I would ask your vet and try the suggestions other members are offering here.


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## Finn's Fan

Dog-drops, you have my total sympathy. I think I already told you that Cholodin really helped my angel Cody, but the other thing that helped a lot during the agitated times (Cody would maniacally dig the carpet) was Benadryl. My vet said "give him a handful"....helpful dosing, right? I had 50 mg tabs, so I would give him 250-300 mg. Surprisingly, it wouldn't knock him out, just calm him so he could sleep and stop digging. Fortunately, the episodes were few since the Cholodin worked so well. You'll know when Ben has had enough, and if it's you who gives up first, that's okay, too. Ben has lived a long and well-loved life with you, so letting him go while he still has his dignity would be a gift, not a betrayal. Give the old boy a smooch from me, please....


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## GoldieMad

Thanks very much for the extra words of advice, I'll try the suggestions mentioned.

I guess the fact that I'm uncertain means that perhaps it's NOT yet his time. As others have said, I'll know when it is.

Ben slept pretty well last night - unfortunately I didn't though due to feeling feverish and lousy with a slight stomach upset. Stress no doubt!


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## Dallas Gold

> Kimm - he's currently on a medication called 'Aktivait' for his dementia, plus the 'Hill B/D' (Brain Diet) food for older dogs.


Is the medication you are using the same as Anipryl? It's approved by the FDA for treatment of canine dementia in dogs. It takes some time to work, if it works for the dog at all.
Here is a link discussing canine cognitive dysfunction:
http://vetmedicine.about.com/cs/diseasesall/a/aniprylseniors.htm


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## GoldieMad

No, not like Anipryl. I don't think that's available in the UK though is it?


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## Dallas Gold

I don't know about the UK--it may be the same meds but different names. You would need to research the chemistry of both to see.

Our rescue had a foster dog of 11-12 years of age that developed ccd--put her on Anipryl and B/D and after 3 months neither worked. Ultimately the decision was made to euthanize her. She was having accidents, getting stuck for hours behind furniture and not understanding how to free herself, barking constantly, pacing, waking at night, sleeping in the day, disturbing everyone in the home, including the resident dogs. She will be featured in our upcoming spring newsletter for GRRNT, due out any day now. I'll try to post a link when available. Her foster mom sent me some photos of the dog stuck in odd positions behind furniture--really sad to see how confused she was. We decided, for the dog's dignity, not to publish those photos, even though the visual they provide is dramatic.


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## WLR

Dog-drops said:


> Interesting suggestion, thanks.
> 
> You say try a quarter of a glucose tablet, but that of course depends on the size of the tablet.
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> 
> The glucose tablets I have are 1 inch squares. I break them up to aproximate 1/4 size for my terrier who weighs in at 73 lbs. He always takes them straight as he seems to know they will make him feel better.
> Both sugar from icing and corn syrup are different because they metabolize differently and are not as fast. Dudley, when he had the 2 minute seizures would be an eating machine afterward. The regular food we would give him wouldnt do it because he needed that glucose in him quick.


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## oldgr9

*Very similar*

my golden (9) seems to be going through the same things as yours. read my other post about strange behavior. My Golden is pawing at the door only because she wants to hide, or go into corners or the bathtub. Our stories are very similar. When she paws at the door, have you opened it for her? Where does she go? I would try standing back and see what or where she "NEEDS" to be beyond the door. Mine exhibits the same pacing and panting, _then_ goes off to hide or get into something. I know how you feel because we have just started going throught the same thing..


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## Noey

I think this is hard. 

It's all about quality of life...and your the best judge of that. When he is lucid is he happy? I too, if not in pain would probably be spending lots of time tryingt o figure out what causes it...yet be frustrated beyond belief I have no control. 

I hope your able to find something to help. But your the best judge on his needs...and you know him best.


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## WLR

Dog-drops said:


> Do we have him put down now before it gets any worse,


 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

No. You do full bloodwork, urinalysis and xrays.
Could be something hormonal or even something causing him pain.
Pinched nerves in back? Have a chiropractor work on him. That gave my Dudley 15 months of really good life before I lost him to a tumor on his spleen.
Time is of the essence.

.


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## GoldieMad

Hi,

I'm pleased to say that Ben has improved a fair amount over the last few months - he's not perfect, but the major issues have all but abated. Not sure if it's because we have him on Aktavait tablets and Hills B/D but, well, it's an improvement anyhow.


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## mylissyk

Dog-drops said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm pleased to say that Ben has improved a fair amount over the last few months - he's not perfect, but the major issues have all but abated. Not sure if it's because we have him on Aktavait tablets and Hills B/D but, well, it's an improvement anyhow.


I'm so glad to hear this! I really felt for you dealing with the dementia, my beagle girl developed it late in life too.


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## coppers-mom

Wonderful! It's great to hear that Ben is doing better.


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## Finn's Fan

I'm so glad to hear that Ben has rallied and is less agitated. Give the old boy some kisses from across the pond, will you please?


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## Sdunning

Have you done bloodwork? Maybe a (pheo) adrenal tumor? Thyroid can also cause some wacky symptoms; any changes in coat or weight?

QUOTE=Dog-drops;749616]My wife and I have always said that when any of our dogs are obviously suffering and their life is affected negatively with no hope of cure then we would always put his needs first and have him put down if necessary.

We're in a bit of a quandry though - Ben is very nearly 14 and for the past few months has been showing increasing signs of dog dementia. He's been checked over thoroughly by the vet and various mediations tried for older dogs with dementia, but they have had little or no effect.

He's NOT aggressive, but his main symptoms are:

- suddenly, as if a switch has been flipped, he will become very animated and start pacing in a very determined way and simply will not settle down - this can last for anything from a few minutes to a few hours. During these times he seems very focussed, but it's hard to say what on. He doesn't seem to want to do anything in particular, although if he is let outside he seems perhaps more relaxed. Having said that, if he's inside and my wife and myself are out of sight (or in a room with the door shut - the bathroom for example) then if he's having one of his 'spells' he will scratch and paw at the door (and other doors).
- when the above occurs then he often pants a LOT, often very rapidly and appears excited. Sometimes though he will shake a fair bit, but not for too long.
- sometimes he appears almost as if he's being mischievous and wags his tail when he is, for example, scratching at a door
- we have tried various sedatives (prescribed by the vet) but these barely work - he always 'fights' them - you can tell they are having an effect (third eyelids showing for example, acting sleepy) but he won't let them make him rest. We now don't give him sedatives. It seems 'wrong' somehow.

Lately he has been doing all the above a fair bit more than usual. Our dilemma is that my wife and I can't decide if he's distressed or not. Obviously he's distressed when he's shaking, but how about when he's pacing rapidly and panting like mad for no apparent reason?

It's incredibly frustrating - we want to do our best for him yet we don't seem able to do anything at all. On the selfish side, he is disturbing our sleep (and that of our other animals) so leading my wife and myself to be irritable with each other and the dogs.

He seems to go through phases of a few days being more likely to become 'animated' as described above and then a few days where he's far more relaxed.

He can and will relax at times, he seems fairly playful at times, but the 'animated' episodes are happening more often and seemingly lasting longer when they occur.

So what to do for the best? I realise it's hard to ask this and the answer will probably be that only my wife and I can really tell when it's time. But even so, I would very much welcome some advice please.

Do we stick with the problem? Do we have him put down now before it gets any worse, or wait for it to get bad before making the ultimate decision?

It's very hard and ultimately is a 'lose lose' situation.

It's all very distressing (at least for us) and very sad.

Many thanks[/QUOTE]


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## Sdunning

Have you done bloodwork? Maybe a (pheo) adrenal tumor? Thyroid can also cause some wacky symptoms; any changes in coat or weight?


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## GoldieMad

Thanks very much for your words of advice, but very sadly Ben was put to sleep in January (at the grand old age of nearly 17):

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...dge/108556-ben-nearly-17-years-old-r-i-p.html


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## Chase88

Goldiemad, our dog exhibited the same syndrome. I wonder how you coped with it in the end.


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## jennretz

Chase88 said:


> Goldiemad, our dog exhibited the same syndrome. I wonder how you coped with it in the end.


This is a very old thread. I would suggest you might get more responses if you start a new thread. So sorry to hear you are going through this.


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## GoldieMad

Chase88 said:


> Goldiemad, our dog exhibited the same syndrome. I wonder how you coped with it in the end.


Hi - we just adjusted, as did Ben. He calmed down as time went by (a few months) as his very animated phases slowly dwindled. He became calmer but less energetic. I see that my original post was in September 2009, Ben was put to sleep in January 2012 (this was due to other things that were going on - in short, he seemed to have had enough as he was battling old age and all that comes with it and was also going off his food).

My vet had tried him on meds for his agitated phases but they didn't help, even a mild sedative was of little use. I would suggest asking your vet as maybe there is a better treatment these days. Good luck!


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## Chase88

Thanks for the response. I know the post is rather old, but the problem still exists. I don't think it is a common affliction, but it is very real. We found that the sedatives didn't work either. Thanks for your response.


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## GoldieMad

No problem, do keep at it with your vet, I wish you and your dog all the very best, hopefully things will settle down (but it may take time).


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