# AKC/UKC utility



## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

First, checking in....I know several people were also starting to train utility around Christmas time, how's everyone doing??
We're *almost* ready for the ring, got a few fun matches coming up first to see how we're doing. STILL not 100% on the articles, everything else I'd feel real confident about in a show. The dog is scentally retarded, LOL. Seriously, he's doing pretty well with them but isn't where I want him to be.
Anyway...
I like to show in both AKC and UKC. In novice and open, they're pretty similar and it doesn't make much difference. But in utility, there are some fairly big differences.
Do any of you guys show in both AKC and UKC utility at the same time? Which did you train/trial first? 
I could make an argument in either direction. Not sure which we'll do first, so I'm looking for some thoughts from everyone.


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## bizzy (Mar 30, 2007)

I'll be no help as my current dog is a mix so I can only show UKC. But utility is the most different of the class levels. I had to really read the rules to make sure I had the exersizes right. I am still working on basic utiliy stuff as we still need to get our CDX. I guess my philosopy is if my dog is trained my dog is trained so it shoulden't matter and I would say go for both at the same time depending on when shows are but take my advice with a grain of salt as I haven't showen in utiliy yet.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

HEY YOU'RE WRONG! 
You can show in AKC starting in April 2010!
The thing with utility is it's really hard...makes Open look like a walk in the park....and AKC utility is significantly different than UKC utility, so I'm concerned about confusing the guy....
I've found the utility exercises are really easy and fun...UNTIL you get into an unfamiliar building...then the amount of confidence required by the dog makes for a very different performance.
Good luck with your dog, I'm glad to see someone with a mix training to the utility level!! 




bizzy said:


> I'll be no help as my current dog is a mix so I can only show UKC. But utility is the most different of the class levels. I had to really read the rules to make sure I had the exersizes right. I am still working on basic utiliy stuff as we still need to get our CDX. I guess my philosopy is if my dog is trained my dog is trained so it shoulden't matter and I would say go for both at the same time depending on when shows are but take my advice with a grain of salt as I haven't showen in utiliy yet.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Hello!
Well my dog has an aversion to final CDX legs in UKC -- granted I haven't gone to a UKC trial in probably 2 years (they seem to be going extinct in my area) but Fisher needs one U-CDX leg and the past 3-4 times we've tried he's done something dumb to fail us -- ahhhh! 
Anyways I would love to try UKC utility one of these days. I think the most significant change is the glove. The straight glove retrieve (or whatever they call it, where you send the dog to 1st, 2nd or 3rd base directly from the pitcher's mound) shouldn't be too difficult, in fact I train that for AKC as a proof, to keep going to the middle glove even though the others are closer. The send-and-stop glove retrieve, I was rather mystified as to how to begin to teach it -- however -- after doing so much field training, I realize that it's just a mini-T with gloves  So I haven't tried it but I think Fisher would pick up on that very quickly since we've done it and move past that to harder stuff in field work.
Let's see -- well you get a relief as I believe you only do one article in UKC, with a smaller pile.
I seem to think you only do one go-out and jump too, but I could be wrong.
The only other difference I can remember is that they do the consecutive recall, first the drop on recall then immediately a straight novice recall. I have practiced this, and just used my hand signal to "come" for the novice recall portion. Fisher WILL anticipate the drop if I just call him "COME!" so if I use a signal he doesn't slow down. Actually the last time we did Versatility obedience we had to do a novice recall followed by DOR and it worked out fine.
Whew! Well I hope I can find some more local trials for UKC, would be fun to try Utility in that venue.


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## bizzy (Mar 30, 2007)

Yeah, I know the AKC is starting a "mix breed" program but I will not participate in it. I have been a bit turned off the AKC in general. I grew up with a golden and have had both mix breeds and pure breeds and the general attitude I have gotten off the vaious OB lists I am on has really turned me off to the AKC. If I can find enough UKC and ASCA show in my area I will likely stay with them. I realize that not everyone has that attitude but is does seem stronger in AKC circles. If I am going to compeate with lily I want to compeate in regular classes not seperated into a "special" class. It like haveing to use the "black" restroom or fountain in the old south. It comes across, to me at least, like they need to keep the "mutts" seperate.So we will stay were we can compete like any other dog and we are judged on our obediance not her parantage and pedgree. Thanks for sharing the information I do hope the program opens doors for others.

Its kinda a moot point in a way with lily anyway as the likelyhood of her ever showing in uility is slim. She is already 10 and had a perty serious health scare about 2.5 years ago so we just do OB for fun and I will stop the instant I think it is hurting her. I will continue to train her as she enjoys working for me, it is the jumping i worry about, along with some vision changes that may keep us out of real trials but I'll keep training and just see where we end up. She may surprise me.


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

hotel4dogs said:


> HEY YOU'RE WRONG!
> You can show in AKC starting in April 2010!


Only if clubs decide to offer mixed breed classes. The responses from the clubs and delegates was overwhelmingly negative when we were asked for input and AKC made their financial statement by going the other way. 
Erica


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## gabbys mom (Apr 23, 2008)

bizzy said:


> Yeah, I know the AKC is starting a "mix breed" program but I will not participate in it. I have been a bit turned off the AKC in general. I grew up with a golden and have had both mix breeds and pure breeds and the general attitude I have gotten off the vaious OB lists I am on has really turned me off to the AKC. If I can find enough UKC and ASCA show in my area I will likely stay with them. I realize that not everyone has that attitude but is does seem stronger in AKC circles. If I am going to compeate with lily I want to compeate in regular classes not seperated into a "special" class. It like haveing to use the "black" restroom or fountain in the old south. It comes across, to me at least, like they need to keep the "mutts" seperate.So we will stay were we can compete like any other dog and we are judged on our obediance not her parantage and pedgree. Thanks for sharing the information I do hope the program opens doors for others.


Uh, don't you think that comparison is a bit dramatic? Maybe a bit overstated?


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Yes, the glove is the biggest thing but what worries me about the glove is stopping the go-out halfway. Other than that, it's not too bad.
I haven't done it from the go-out. I just plunk his rump in the middle of where he "should" sit if he were to do the glove go-out perfectly, and then signal him to one of the 3 gloves. He's pretty good at that. I just haven't combined it with the send yet, because I don't want to mess up his AKC go-out, it's still pretty new to him.
There are 2 go-outs and 2 jumps.
The double recalls replace the moving stand, and let's face it, recalls are much easier for most goldens than standing still while a friendly stranger is petting them!
Yes, there is only one set of articles, and it's metal.
Speaking of, do you plan to use a different word for the UKC signal glove retrieve as versus the AKC go-out? I've been trying to think of a different word, that would signal to him that he's only going to be going halfway before he's going to get a command to stop. Any ideas?? Obviously can't be similar to a command we already use in obedience/agility/conformation, LOL. I use "run out" in AKC utility, I use "go _____ " in agility (go jump, go teeter, etc), and I use "let's go!" in conformation.
Boy, I can sure complicate a simple reply.





K9-Design said:


> Hello!
> Well my dog has an aversion to final CDX legs in UKC -- granted I haven't gone to a UKC trial in probably 2 years (they seem to be going extinct in my area) but Fisher needs one U-CDX leg and the past 3-4 times we've tried he's done something dumb to fail us -- ahhhh!
> Anyways I would love to try UKC utility one of these days. I think the most significant change is the glove. The straight glove retrieve (or whatever they call it, where you send the dog to 1st, 2nd or 3rd base directly from the pitcher's mound) shouldn't be too difficult, in fact I train that for AKC as a proof, to keep going to the middle glove even though the others are closer. The send-and-stop glove retrieve, I was rather mystified as to how to begin to teach it -- however -- after doing so much field training, I realize that it's just a mini-T with gloves  So I haven't tried it but I think Fisher would pick up on that very quickly since we've done it and move past that to harder stuff in field work.
> Let's see -- well you get a relief as I believe you only do one article in UKC, with a smaller pile.
> ...


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## bizzy (Mar 30, 2007)

gabbys mom said:


> Uh, don't you think that comparison is a bit dramatic? Maybe a bit overstated?


 It was the best analogy I could come up with for how I have been made to feel. She is a great dog who has gone 3 for 3 in both ASCA and UKC for her CD's with all scores in the 190's and 4 HIT's out of six legs and was basicly told it would be a SHAMEFUL and wrong to show her in AKC. The reason.. She may take a placement from a purebreed dog! 

But this thread is about utility not the way mixes are sometime viewed in preformance events. Its always the few bad apples in the bunch and I am trying to remember that. I guess by the time I was able to begin compeating (started in 4-H but did not have a chance to do "real" shows) for real I had a mix at the time so that is what I trained and its altered my perspective of the Purebread/mix breed debat with is about as hotly contested at times as what food to feed. LOL 

So on to utility fun. Thanks for the posts hotel4dogs as they help keep me motivated to train.


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## bizzy (Mar 30, 2007)

Maybe you could use place. Use a rug or somthing in the "middle" and teach him to go to his "place" for the glove exersise to seperate it from the go out?? It was an idea I was thinking of trying.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I like that idea...I don't use any command at all similar for anything. Thanks!




bizzy said:


> Maybe you could use place. Use a rug or somthing in the "middle" and teach him to go to his "place" for the glove exersise to seperate it from the go out?? It was an idea I was thinking of trying.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Hmmm...now I'm really curious to go try this. Honestly I think I would just use "BACK" as that is what we use in field training.
If you can get ahold of some field training manuals look up "Mini-T" or "Single-T" which is a very basic beginning drill for teaching blinds. Actually it is teaching casting and stop on the whistle, not blinds. But anyways, it's the exact same exercise except with bumpers instead of gloves. Mike Lardy's manuals and Evan Graham's Smartworks are the two I have, they are basically the same as far as how this is built and taught. Anyways, since you are within 30 feet of the dog you could easily just say "SIT" instead of blowing a whistle." I do wonder if you're allowed to put your hands in a "praying" stance before casting to the glove, like you do in field work? Hmmmm....


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I'll look up the mini-T and single-T, thanks. He's okay with the actual retrieve, I just haven't added the go-out part because I'm not sure how to proceed, like what word to use, LOL. 
I use "back" when heeling when we do a left turn or a left circle, so I think that wouldn't work for him.
Guess that's the only thing, the more different dog sports you compete in the more your words tend to get mixed up.
When I first introduced the go-outs in obedience, he was really confused. Suddenly it occured to me (blinding flash of the obvious we call it) that I use "GO ____" in agility all the time, and the word GO is followed by an obstacle he's supposed to go looking for, ya know, go tire, go table, go tunnel, etc. So when I was telling him "GO OUT" I think the poor guy was looking for an "OUT" and trying to figure out where it was!
So I changed the command to "RUN OUT" and he got it right away, and is very consistent with it.




K9-Design said:


> Hmmm...now I'm really curious to go try this. Honestly I think I would just use "BACK" as that is what we use in field training.
> If you can get ahold of some field training manuals look up "Mini-T" or "Single-T" which is a very basic beginning drill for teaching blinds. Actually it is teaching casting and stop on the whistle, not blinds. But anyways, it's the exact same exercise except with bumpers instead of gloves. Mike Lardy's manuals and Evan Graham's Smartworks are the two I have, they are basically the same as far as how this is built and taught. Anyways, since you are within 30 feet of the dog you could easily just say "SIT" instead of blowing a whistle." I do wonder if you're allowed to put your hands in a "praying" stance before casting to the glove, like you do in field work? Hmmmm....


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> I'll look up the mini-T and single-T, thanks. He's okay with the actual retrieve, I just haven't added the go-out part because I'm not sure how to proceed, like what word to use, LOL.
> I use "back" when heeling when we do a left turn or a left circle, so I think that wouldn't work for him.
> Guess that's the only thing, the more different dog sports you compete in the more your words tend to get mixed up.
> When I first introduced the go-outs in obedience, he was really confused. Suddenly it occured to me (blinding flash of the obvious we call it) that I use "GO ____" in agility all the time, and the word GO is followed by an obstacle he's supposed to go looking for, ya know, go tire, go table, go tunnel, etc. So when I was telling him "GO OUT" I think the poor guy was looking for an "OUT" and trying to figure out where it was!
> So I changed the command to "RUN OUT" and he got it right away, and is very consistent with it.


You know, I use BACK in field work for the traditional things (send for a blind OR a back cast) but I also use it to mean back up in heel position for the glove #3 (AKC utility). Trust me there is no confusion for Fisher  
For mini-T/single-T you first teach the dog to go straight ahead and retrieve the middle object, then you introduce sitting on cue halfway out, then you teach the "over" objects, so they can be stopped and cast to any of the three piles. So never are you doing a go-out, because there is a finite destination, the middle glove (2nd base). They learn this game very quickly and if anything I think it would help your go-outs. 

Hmmm...well, next time I go practice I'll have to see how this works in real life!


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