# Are you familiar with these breeders? New to the Forum



## cindyo (Nov 1, 2017)

Where to start...At the beginning I guess. I have been reading the forum for a number of months but am new to posting. We lost our Golden Retriever 4 years ago to cancer. Griffey would have turned 9 years old two days before he passed. Needless to say we were devastated even though we knew the end was coming. My husband has been ready to bring a new Golden into our home but I have been dragging my feet. I think I am now ready to bring a golden soul into our home and hearts. I have been researching breeders as well as asking people who I have met, who their breeders where. I have come up with 3 names of breeders and wonder if anyone is familiar with them and is willing to give me any input. The first is Legacy Champion Golden's in Chelan, WA. The second is Sunset Golden's of Oregon in Banks, OR and the third is Sunshine Hill in Dexter, OR. I have reviewed their websites but would appreciate any help you all could give me. I have lots of questions but here is one that I had not seen before. One of the above breeders said that they require you to purchase a certain brand of dog food that is ordered online. Is this common? I am more than happy for the breeder to recommend the best they know of to me but was surprised that that was part of their contract. If I should post this under another Forum topic just let me know. Sorry for this being so long.


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## HaliaGoldens (Jul 13, 2008)

It sounds like they're selling NuVet food/supplements. I would avoid any breeder who requires you to buy it; it's kind of a pyramid scheme.


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## HaliaGoldens (Jul 13, 2008)

Also, welcome to the forum. I'm so sorry to hear about the loss of your golden. You'll find there's a lot of good information here about what to look for in a breeder.


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## cindyo (Nov 1, 2017)

Thanks HallaGoldens. I have been reading about so many breeders that I wanted to be sure I had the food question correct. The one breeder did not require us to use their recommended food but this question/statement is on their application: " We provide a one year health guarantee as long s you sign up through our nutrition program for automatic shipments" The food is Life Abundance grain Free all Life Stages.


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## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

Welcome to the forum! I'm familiar with Sunset Goldens and Sunshine, we're in the same GR club. They should both have all clearances and follow the GRCA code of ethics. To be on the referral list they are supposed to.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

I too am sorry for you loss. I hope your new puppy will bring you joy. 

Of the 3, Sunset and Sunshine Hill May be viable options. It would depend on what he parents. Once you have registration names or numbers, you will be able to check to see if everything is as it should be on www.ofa.org. 

Legacy Champion Goldens I would run from way overpriced and missing many of the health certifications. Some dogs come from very sport pedigrees as well. 

Also a pet peeve, if you name your Kennel “Champion” but do nothing with your dogs but pump out profit puppies, that is messed up. They seem to do nothing competitive with their dogs that along with health certifications would at least begin to justify their bloated pricing. 

Here is some visuals that I hope will help. 

If you do get potential parent’s names you can post here for a double check. 

Good luck!


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

I'd skip Legacy (because there's nothing compelling on the site that says they are good breeders and the name 'champion' is hysterically funny since they own no champions) and Sunset (because the bitch involved has no page on OFA and the sire does not have eyes and heart on OFA- which IS a part of the CoE that the breeder says they adhere to. They should be submitted to OFA for verification. ) Also, on their puppy page, what does this mean> "Sunset HHF Sonic's Scarlett Duchess
Sunset HHF Aristotle JH WC or possibly a Show Champion." Not sure who will sire the litter, their dog or a CH dog? I think that's what it means. 
Sunshine Hill is a staple in the GR world historically, but the site lacks names of current dogs or litters planned- and if memory serves me the founder has passed away so when a new person takes over a breeding program you don't assume things are being done the same way even if they are part of the same family. If you contact them and post the sire X dam names someone can check it out.


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## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

Prism Goldens said:


> I'd skip Legacy (because there's nothing compelling on the site that says they are good breeders and the name 'champion' is hysterically funny since they own no champions) and Sunset (because the bitch involved has no page on OFA and the sire does not have eyes and heart on OFA- which IS a part of the CoE that the breeder says they adhere to. They should be submitted to OFA for verification. ) Also, on their puppy page, what does this mean> "Sunset HHF Sonic's Scarlett Duchess
> Sunset HHF Aristotle JH WC or possibly a Show Champion." Not sure who will sire the litter, their dog or a CH dog? I think that's what it means.
> Sunshine Hill is a staple in the GR world historically, but the site lacks names of current dogs or litters planned- and if memory serves me the founder has passed away so when a new person takes over a breeding program you don't assume things are being done the same way even if they are part of the same family. If you contact them and post the sire X dam names someone can check it out.


I should clarify, I'm 90% sure the OP meant Sunshine goldens, not Sunshine Hil. Debbie is still alive and well, although I believe they're moving soon.


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## Golden293 (Dec 7, 2017)

I believe Legacy Champion Goldens used to be called Lake Chelan Goldens but then they changed their name, switched to “English Creams” (see below for the quote explanation) and jacked their prices up. The food thing looks like another way to make the breeder money. They're profiting off the food commitment, so not only are you paying a lot up front for the dog to the breeder, but you're also inadvertently giving them money for the next year of the dog’s life while it’s on the food. A reputable breeder would have a health guarantee regardless of the food you put the dog on. I know someone that spoke to her a while back and her stories don’t always add up, she might say one thing but her actions show differently. It also makes me nervous if breeders have puppies year round that are available… reputable breeders carefully plan their litters and there are usually long waiting lists. They also seem to have a ton of dogs... I think they have more than they advertise on their website if you look at their Facebook. 

I just read a post by nolefan on another thread. She made some other really great points when evaluating a breeder. The first was: “Reputable breeders of Golden Retrievers do NOT ever use the words "White Retriever" "English Cream or Creme Retriever" on their websites. Those words do not cross their lips. Ever. These are marketing terms used by puppy farmers and puppy mills to sell dogs and take advantage of the fad for these dogs.” This is key to me with Legacy Champion Goldens. They didn’t used to have “English Creams” but all of a sudden the color of their dogs switched and the prices went up. That seems like a money making incentive to me. 

Other ways to tell if it’s a reputable breeder: 
-	Ask about the parent dogs. Can you meet them? (it’s common for the sire not to be onsite)
-	Ask about pick up. Is it at their house? If you’re going to meet in a parking lot prior to the puppies being 8 weeks, RED FLAG.
-	Ask about breeding rights. Reputable breeders won’t just give away breeding rights to anyone for money. Reputable breeders want to make sure that the person buying breeding rights has experience and is going to breed their dogs for the right reason and make sure that you sign a contract requiring the dog to pass clearances before the dog can be bred. 
-	Ask about prior litters with the parents. 

Last but not least, double check what they’re saying. Just because a breeder says the right things doesn’t mean they’re doing all the right things. I’d hate to see you spend a lot of money on a dog up front and find out later that you were deceived.


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## TheosMom419 (Feb 23, 2018)

New to the group and doing research on goldens and breeders as I'm looking to get one soon and know how hard it is to find good breeders. I found this thread and wanted to pass it along. Looks like I'll be crossing them off my list. Too many red flags: http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...ussion/488546-unethical-breeders-what-do.html


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## Natic (Jan 15, 2020)

I have a puppy from LCG and I could not be happier - my Golden is NOT an English cream - as you can see from the pictures, and both my vet (Elliot Bay) and trainer have commented on what an amazing dog she is, and how the breeder really knew what they were doing. I have had Goldens in the past, and I have to admit that Chloe has been the easiest to train, she has the best personality of any other dog I have owned (I have had 15 dogs in my life!). Her proportions are perfect according to our vet too


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## OscarsDad (Dec 20, 2017)

And she likes mud and is an avid reader! Perfect! Nice pics.


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## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

She wasn't from the litter out of Ranger x Skittles was she?


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## DearDarla (Jan 22, 2021)

My golden is from Legacy, so I will share a few thoughts and notes on our experience.

My golden is a great dog—so far very healthy, smart, fabulous temperament, etc. She does have an issue with eating fabric but I don’t know if that is genetic or just a personal quirk. However, I would not purchase from that breeder again. Some concerns came up for me after we had already gotten our pup. For example, they seem to run several litters at a time. I am not a breeder so I don’t know how many litters one can manage simultaneously, but at least to me, it seems better for a breeder to space out their litters. Also, they bred one dam during two heat cycles in a row, which strikes me as being bad for the dog—it’s hard on a mammal’s body to be pregnant/give birth/nurse/recover multiple times in close succession, so I’d prefer to see at least one heat cycle pass in between breedings on the same dam. It is also really concerning to me that they have changed the name of their business several times. It was initially Chelan Goldens, then Legacy Champion, and now Tsillian Goldens (or some such). They said this has to do with them getting more involved with competitive obedience, but I don’t know enough about that realm to know if it’s a legitimate reason for a name change. 

I will say that they seem to do a good job of socializing the pups, and I loved that the dogs are raised with kids in the home. They put them on a puppy swing, take them on their boat, do noise exposure, etc. After having a reactive/nervous dog prior to my golden, it was really important to me for a puppy to be well socialized, so I paid less attention to other factors than I should have when researching breeders.



TheosMom419 said:


> New to the group and doing research on goldens and breeders as I'm looking to get one soon and know how hard it is to find good breeders. I found this thread and wanted to pass it along. Looks like I'll be crossing them off my list. Too many red flags: Unethical Breeders - what to do?


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

It's not that they are 'getting more involved', it is that their kennel name is so bad that it's affecting business. Won't be long before Tsillian is also discarded for another, as-yet-untarnished name in hopes puppy buyers won't realize they are unethical in their breeding practices.
And no GOOD kennel name would be changed- ever- for a good breeder or one aspiring to be good, that name is the historical record as it were. You can't erase a record by changing a name, you can just make your behavior even more suspect.


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