# Agility



## Kdogg331 (Sep 8, 2018)

Who does agility with their Goldens? Hoping to get into it if/when I get a Golden. I have heard though that bigger boned and/or show bred dogs could be more injury prone? Is there any truth to that? I see lots of show bred Goldens participating, some at quite high levels. But definitely don't want to risk any injuries so should I be looking for a smaller, more agile dog or is there not truth to it? Also which is better for agility, field or show bred or a combo or does it not matter? But anyway, in addition to these questions, I would also just love general advice, stories, pictures and/or videos of Goldens doing agility, etc. ?


----------



## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

bumping up


----------



## Kdogg331 (Sep 8, 2018)

CAROLINA MOM said:


> bumping up


Thank you for the bump


----------



## Atis (Jul 8, 2014)

I do not compete on any level and my golden hated agility, my golden/lab cross however loves it and has been taking classes for 4 years and now at the advanced level. I can't offer any professional thoughts on this only my own experience and observations. I've worked with three different instructors at this point, heights and courses have increased slowly with the skill of myself and my dog. Which I'm sure has been important in avoiding injury. Embarrassingly I have probably suffered more injury than he has by occasionally tripping over him or an obstacle, nothing serious bumped knees or twisted ankles. It is definitely important that you learn about the instructor and program you are looking into to be sure that the instructor understands dog physiology. Very often during classes with our current instructor there is discussion on choosing a path to run based not only on how fast it will be but what will be safest course for the safety of the dog. For example you don't want to choose a course that will cause your dog to have to twist unexpectedly mid jump resulting in a landing more likely to cause an injury. My personal experience has been that when we have needed to miss or scale back the intensity of a class it was because of his not feeling well or hurting himself at home but never due to injuries in class. If my golden had enjoyed it there is no doubt that I would have continued taking him to classes as well but he was very clear where he stood on the whole idea. As I said at the beginning I do not compete at all, this is by choice. In class we do the very best we can because it offers us the opportunity to work closely together and burn off some energy. I would suggest that you go into it with the goal of enjoying it for the same reasons and see where it leads you. Just make sure your dog is enjoying it as well.


----------



## Eclipse (Apr 21, 2014)

I compete in agility with my Golden. She is show line, but she has a lot of drive. She's not as fast as the field/performance line dogs, but we have fun together. It's our second year competing and we haven't run into any injuries. A lot of agility people get regular chiropractic adjustments for their dogs to help prevent injury, as well as create warm-up and cooldown routines for runs.

This is our Jumpers run from yesterday. I think you'll have to click the link and play it on YouTube, it's not wanting to play on this website for some reason.


----------



## cwag (Apr 25, 2017)

We don't compete and probably won't but we are taking some classes in agility. The first was just Working as Partners which was so worthwhile and really helped with recall. It also helped Rukie settle down from hitting his rebellious teen stage. Now we are doing an introduction to the obstacles which has been fun. Our instructor keeps the jumps low for him since he's 16 months old and his growth plates may not have closed. She also has an emphasis on making it fun and having the dogs feel successful never discouraged or forced to do something. I agree with Atis it's important to have a good instructor who really knows what they are doing.
Eclipse, I enjoyed watching your video she's doing really well.


----------



## Wicky (Aug 27, 2015)

We also do agility for fun. Sona does not have perfect hips so we will never jump full height. 
I agree with eclipse, warm up and cool downs are really important in avoiding injuries.
Sona also attended a physio to help with her hips but I learnt so much from him on everything from exercise for core strength, checking for muscle tension, stretching exercises and just being more aware of what is normal for Sona in term of her structure, function and movement so I can pick up any issues quickly. I Found working with a trainer at a foundation level where a range of skills were developed in terms of fitness, body awareness, flexibility, core strength, and drive was very important for us and gave us the best platform to start agility.


----------



## Eclipse (Apr 21, 2014)

A couple things I forgot to mention. When looking for a trainer, I think it's important to find one that has put an agility championship title on a dog before, or has the skill level/knowledge to do so. I found mine by going to an agility trial and asking who to go to, since the person I started with didn't really teach foundations properly - it was more of a "try it" style. Even if you don't plan on competing, it is good to have someone that knows how to work through your dog's issues, whether is related to the obstacles or their mental state. It's good to have a trainer that takes time for solid foundation training too - it could take a month to start introducing equipment, but making everything solid instead of rushing into making your dog know everything as soon as possible will pay off in the long run.


If you do eventually plan to compete, I would recommend going to watch a couple trials first - the novice dogs and masters dogs. It will give you a good feel for how they're set up and you can learn how to check in, ect. before taking your dog. I wish I had watched a couple before competing, it would have made me feel less nervous and also realize that even the experienced dogs make mistakes.

Thanks cwag, it's taken a lot of work to get to this point.


----------



## Kdogg331 (Sep 8, 2018)

Thanks for all the replies and advice everyone! It's been really helpful! I definitely plan on going to at least a few agility trials as well as other events, like confirmation and rally and maybe a nosework one or two partly because I just love dogs and love watching and going to that stuff and partly cause I was thinking maybe I could find good breeders or trainers that way?

And I loved the video.

Oh and how do you tell if they don't like it? Just like reluctant to go over obstacles and not happy/smiling, tail wagging?


----------



## Kdogg331 (Sep 8, 2018)

Btw, thoughts on these two?

http://www.pawsitivelyobedient.com
https://www.thedogmallinc.com

Was thinking the first one for obedience classes and the training games class and stuff but their agility is what you guys mentioned as just like try it one and they don't train for competition so then I was gonna switch to dog mall for that cause they use the one mind dog system? I Googled it and it seems like a pretty good method. Although they also have a lot of cool puppy classes and fitness stuff.

Speaking of which, do you think that's something I should sign up for/use?

https://www.thedogmallinc.com/k9-fit-club

https://www.thedogmallinc.com/k9-fitness

https://www.thedogmallinc.com/fitness-wellness-membership

Sorry for all the links, sites kinda all over ha here's some videos of the kinds of stuff they do though.


https://youtu.be/TO1CMGnAmgU

https://youtu.be/L6VrlEGnQ0U

https://youtu.be/waYjl8vnVcc

I especially like the second one. So fit.


----------



## Eclipse (Apr 21, 2014)

Some dogs will shut down from stress in agility - trotting at a trial instead of running, avoiding obstacles, and not wanting move to take the first jump. There was a Shar-pei in class with me back in foundations (I think they quit eventually) and getting the dog to even take one jump took several minutes.


The websites didn't provide information on how much experience the instructors have with agility, so it's hard to tell. One Mind Dogs is a good handling system though. You might have to shoot them an email to get a better idea for how long they've been training and if they compete. The physical fitness classes look like nice supplemental classes for agility, I don't know if a membership would be necessary though.


Going to a trial isn't just a good way to find a trainer, it's also a good way to see Goldens from different kennels in action. You may see a Golden you like and connect with your breeder that way too. Good luck with your search!


----------



## Kdogg331 (Sep 8, 2018)

Thanks again for all the help! I'll have to call or email and ask about that and their experience. I know the nosework instructor is certified through NACSW and has put NW titles on dogs, even an NW3 Elite on a Westie so that's good but they don't mention anything about the agilty instructors experience so I'll have to find out. Thanks again. And yes, figured I could maybe find breeders that way too. And I saw a video recently of a Papillion at Crufts. Refused to jump and kept running around. Finally they just gave up. Was probably nervous by the big crowd and noise and everything.


----------



## TheZ's (Jun 13, 2011)

It seems that you are in Massachusetts. I'd check into the information provided by Yankee Golden Retriever Club which is located in Massachusetts. YGRC has members who participate in agility as well as all the other activities that Golden owners enjoy. You could get suggestions on breeders from them as well. People who are looking for a dog who will be really competitive in agility often look to performance breeders whose breeding dogs may have pedigrees with generations of dogs with significant agility and obedience titles. Those breeders may however give preference to homes that are already experienced competitors.


----------



## Kdogg331 (Sep 8, 2018)

TheZ's said:


> It seems that you are in Massachusetts. I'd check into the information provided by Yankee Golden Retriever Club which is located in Massachusetts. YGRC has members who participate in agility as well as all the other activities that Golden owners enjoy. You could get suggestions on breeders from them as well. People who are looking for a dog who will be really competitive in agility often look to performance breeders whose breeding dogs may have pedigrees with generations of dogs with significant agility and obedience titles. Those breeders may however give preference to homes that are already experienced competitors.


Thanks for the suggestion! I'll have to look into that. I've heard of the club but hadn't thought of trying to ask them about sports. I have thought about finding a field and/or performance breeder and I like the look of Gaylan's program but I also mostly want a companion first and don't plan to be super competitive, more just compete for fun and see where it takes us, so I think I need a dog I can live with first. Or maybe a mix of lines? Because I do love training and want to do at least a couple sports, tricks, etc. So I definitely don't want a zero drive, totally lazy couch potato dog, but I also don't want a super crazy, wound up, high drive thing, that always has to be working and can't chill and watch TV. I do think eventually I might want a more competitive dog though.


----------



## Eclipse (Apr 21, 2014)

Someone locally has a Gaylan's dog. Super sweet, loves everyone, and is a fast agility dog that's fun to watch.


----------



## Atis (Jul 8, 2014)

Kdogg331 said:


> Oh and how do you tell if they don't like it? Just like reluctant to go over obstacles and not happy/smiling, tail wagging?


You pretty much nailed it already but each dog is different and nobody can read them better than their person. The biggest difference between my two dogs is that the cross has always been a thinker and loves to figure out a challenge. This is why when the golden starts verbally complaining that the ball is behind the chair and he can't get it the cross will figure out that he can crawl under the table from the other side and get it for him. This problem solver mentality can sometimes cause trouble for me when I'm not communicating well on the course and he runs off course to solve the problem of his human not being able to figure out these simple tasks. As for my golden it was very clear early on that his hesitation to do very easy obstacles was not his inability but it just didn't make sense to "jump" over the 8" high pole when he could just walk around it. He would also sometimes just lay down in front of those difficult 8" jumps when we got to them. Finally he would start barking at me just like when that darn ball would go to that impossible place. At one point before I signed up for another session the instructor said "maybe David just isn't cut out for agility".


----------



## Kdogg331 (Sep 8, 2018)

Eclipse said:


> Someone locally has a Gaylan's dog. Super sweet, loves everyone, and is a fast agility dog that's fun to watch.


They do seem like great dogs! Is she very high drive?



Atis said:


> Kdogg331 said:
> 
> 
> > Oh and how do you tell if they don't like it? Just like reluctant to go over obstacles and not happy/smiling, tail wagging?
> ...


Your cross sounds hilarious! My brother's dog is somewhat like that. Loves to solve problems and crawl under stuff. She crawls under anything. Dressers to get her toys, beds, etc. Although of course now she's getting a little big to fit under the dressers lol but one time we were playing hide and seek and I was over against a wall next to the bed and I could hear her walk in so looked under the bed, could see her legs on the other side, anyway we both happened to lool under the bed at the same time and made eye contact and she freaking army crawls under the bed across to me and starts wagging and kissing LOL couldn't stop laughing. I thought maybe she would walk around but NOPE. Although I guess going under was faster, shorter, and more efficient LOL and aw sorry your Golden wasn't cut out for it but that's great your instructor was so honest! Some would just keep taking your money.


----------



## ceegee (Mar 26, 2015)

Kdogg331 said:


> Thanks for the suggestion! I'll have to look into that. I've heard of the club but hadn't thought of trying to ask them about sports. I have thought about finding a field and/or performance breeder and I like the look of Gaylan's program but I also mostly want a companion first and don't plan to be super competitive, more just compete for fun and see where it takes us, so I think I need a dog I can live with first. Or maybe a mix of lines? Because I do love training and want to do at least a couple sports, tricks, etc. So I definitely don't want a zero drive, totally lazy couch potato dog, but I also don't want a super crazy, wound up, high drive thing, that always has to be working and can't chill and watch TV. I do think eventually I might want a more competitive dog though.



I do agility with my dog. He's my second Golden and is 2 years old. My first one, also my agility partner, died at age 8 of cancer. At the time of her death she was the reigning Canadian national and Quebec provincial agility champion in her class.


My first golden was a mix of performance and conformation lines. She was chosen for me because of her high energy level and high drive. I have to say she was a bit of a challenge to live with in the first couple of years; we're talking broken lamps and furniture, torn screen doors and, memorably, a broken window when she jumped through it (it was closed at the time) to get at a squirrel. The performance lines were obviously dominant!! She did learn to settle in the house, but it was a process. In agility too, it took us a while to get our act together. Fast, driven dogs can be a challenge to train and run. At first, in competitions, we often had off-courses because she would simply do her own thing if I wasn't quick enough with the directions. I used to joke that she was at least 4 years old before she realized the obstacles had to be done in some kind of order! Once things came together, though, it was amazing. I'm glad she wasn't my first agility dog: she would have been a bit much! But I loved her immensely and we had an absolute blast together; she was truly a dog of a lifetime.


My current golden is from performance lines. Interestingly, he's a softer personality than my first one - less of a bulldozer - but he, too, is driven and active. For example, I work from home, and when I take my sandwiches outside to eat at lunchtime, he will run around the yard, toss sticks in the air, grab mouthfuls of turf and toss them in the air too, chase squirrels and, if I leave the gate open, will jump in the pool and swim. He loves to be active! In the house, he's learned to settle, but it took a while. For the first year or so, he was a difficult companion in my office; he would whine, chew stuff, pace and be a general nuisance. Now, however, he understands that his job is to settle and let me work. He's a good house dog as long as he gets enough physical and mental stimulation. He's also a joy to train: very focused and thoughtful. I had a total knee replacement earlier this year and was off the road completely for three months. We got by with mental stimulation for him (I taught him some tricks from the comfort of my armchair), my daughter took him to agility class and friends stopped by to take him for walks. He's exactly what I wanted, and exactly what I asked the breeder to choose for me. He'll be a wonderful agility dog, and in terms of personality, is an absolute sweetheart. 



It's important to know what you want and to be up-front with your breeder about it. If you want a dog that's primarily a companion, but will enjoy activities with you, then tell the breeder and ask him/her to choose that type of pup for you. If you go to a performance breeder, make sure he or she knows that you don't want a super high energy dog.



Gaylans have an amazing breeding program but don't often place their pups in pet/companion homes and their list fills up very quickly. However, it's worth contacting them. If they don't have a suitable litter, they may be able to refer you to someone who does.


Below is a photo and video of Duster doing agility. His partner in the video is my daughter; I've been off the road with my knee and don't have a recent video of us together!


----------



## Kdogg331 (Sep 8, 2018)

@ceegee thank you for taking the time to go into such detail about your dogs individual personalities, it was very helpful! And I am sorry you lost your dog ? it seems like even performance lines can vary quite a lot? Do you think a show line would be better for a beginner? I'm not new to dogs or training but definitely new to the sports. But I'm worried a show one wouldn't have enough drive to everything I want to. Maybe I just need to find the right breeder? Your boy is very handsome, btw.


----------



## ceegee (Mar 26, 2015)

Thanks for the compliment! Yes, I think he's handsome too.


In every litter, regardless of lines, there's a wide variety of energy levels and types of puppy. You absolutely need to find the right breeder, and you need a breeder who will choose your puppy for you, or at least guide you towards the type of puppy within the litter that would fit into your lifestyle and what you want to do. Beware of breeders who place puppies on a first-deposit, first-served basis and allow buyers to choose their own pups.


It's important to be brutally honest with yourself about what you can cope with and the time/effort you're willing to put into your dog, and to make sure the breeder has that information. Goldens are working dogs, and well-bred dogs from show lines should absolutely have the energy, biddability and drive you're looking for: that is the nature of the breed. One of the most successful agility dogs in our club is a purely conformation-bred Golden. She has strings of titles in both agility and obedience, is a fast and enthusiastic worker in the agility ring, and has her conformation titles too. My first, off-the-wall energetic agility dog had many conformation champions in her pedigree (Pedigree: ATChC Goldencol's Star Ruby , Bronze, Silver and Gold Awards of Merit, VBA, VSA, Lifetime Achievement Award of Excellence).


One thing you should look for if you're interested in agility is good structure. Agility is very tough on a dog's joints, and a properly structured dog will withstand the pressure better.


----------



## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

I have been competing in agility with my dogs for the last 15+ years and I'm a certified agility instructor. I second everything that CeeGee told you (thanks CeeGee for saving me the time writing up a similar response!). I have had four Goldens, two "conformation line" dogs and two "pet" lines. The pet line dogs have been much higher drive. The conformation lines have been "honest" workers, which I think would likely be a better choice for a novice handler - steady, dependable, predictable, capable of earning titles but may not be taking you to Nationals. My first truly competitive dog (the one in my avatar picture) was somewhat "wasted" on me as a novice handler. I certainly LEARNED a lot training and handling him, but I could have taken him SO much further so much faster if I had known what I was doing. You should also be realistic about your own physical capabilities. One the one hand, I have seen severely physically impaired handlers doing an awesome job with their dogs (had a quadriplegic in one of my classes who did well enough to compete in his wheelchair) so you can overcome almost anything, BUT I know that at my current weight/age/level of physical ability I am currently the weak link in our partnership since I have trouble keeping up with her and giving her commands/signals in time. Although Gaylans and similar breeders might sell you a puppy with all sorts of performance potential, be aware they dogs don't train themselves and dogs with that high a drive can be a challenge even for experienced handlers!

Another thing I want to weigh in on is your training plans. First, any dog that is structurally sound and kept lean and fit should be fine physically doing agility (although, generally speaking, field-line dogs are usually a bit faster, and yes, eventually investing in one of those "fitness" classes you linked to certainly might help reduce the chance of injury). I agree that it will be important for you to mention to your breeder that you plan to do agility and ask for a puppy that is not only structurally sound but also shows some working ability (no guarantees when decisions are made at 8 weeks, but a good breeder should at least be able to narrow down your best options in any given litter). Be aware that "true" agility training (especially weave poles and jumps) really should not be started until your dog is mature (I personally use 18 months as my minimum for upright poles and full-height jumps, and certainly for competition). My first 18 months with my dog is spent doing a lot of "foundational" training - basic manners, attention, making training FUN, working on confidence and socialization, teaching my dog to run/work on both my left and right sides, very low jumps (ankle or eventually knee height, or just going through the jump standards with no bar in place), walking on a variety of surfaces, low planks, being on things that move (google "wobble board"), ladder and cavelti work, etc.

I love the handling techniques used by "One Mind" trainers, so if you have access to that I would certainly take advantage of that opportunity. If you can learn via video, Fenzi Academy and Susan Garrett ("Say Yes" dog training) have some good on-line stuff you may want to check out. In fact, if Susan Garrett opens either her "Puppy Peaks" on-line training (for when your dog is young) or her "Recallers" or "Handling 360" classes in a time frame that works for you, I recommend them all (I've done the Puppy Peaks - I'm saving my $$ for the other two!). You may find some free previews of these classes either on YouTube or her website or Facebook page.

I could paste a ton of video links for my dogs, but they're actually not all that impressive (I teach better than I do!). However, I will post a link to a video of my working on some foundational agility and obedience stuff when my current pup was about 5 months old. I started teaching many of these moves the day she came home!


----------



## Kdogg331 (Sep 8, 2018)

Thank you both, really helpful advice! I hadn't thought of online classes for the sports, though I have heard of the fenzi one and Susan but forgot about it. And didn't realize Susan had all those classes. Libby could use the recallers one ha would most breeders have knowledge of the proper structure for agility or should I not take that as a given?


----------



## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

I would think that any reputable breeder knows what "good structure" looks like. That said, there are minor structural issues that might never cause physical problems, especially for the average "pet." However, if a breeder knows that you are looking for a dog who will be a true athlete, they might set a higher bar and not overlook those minor issues.


----------



## Kdogg331 (Sep 8, 2018)

pawsnpaca said:


> I would think that any reputable breeder knows what "good structure" looks like. That said, there are minor structural issues that might never cause physical problems, especially for the average "pet." However, if a breeder knows that you are looking for a dog who will be a true athlete, they might set a higher bar and not overlook those minor issues.


Thanks again. That makes sense. Seems like I just need to very specific


----------

