# What!!!?? A 4,500& puppy!



## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

5 Month old pick Show Male 

Han, Mattiaci Aerials In The Sky 12 Pts/Both Majors X Gander, Mattiaci What's Good For The Goose. 

How could this be true.....???????

http://members.aol.com/OfMattiaci/TrainedGoldenRetriever.htm


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## Dslats (Mar 1, 2007)

:crazy: I don't know much about the $ part of a high breed puppy but I think myself thats ALOT!!! 

Debbie & mason


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## TheHooch (May 9, 2007)

I wouldn;t pay that for Prince Charles and Princess Diana's first born.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I am beyond shocked. . . that is an absurd thing. Neither parent is a champion, and some of the best show puppies in the country are half that.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

TheHooch said:


> I wouldn;t pay that for Prince Charles and Princess Diana's first born.


Nice one, Hooch. How are you feeling today?


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

WOW!!!! That blows me away. I could never afford that.


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## TheHooch (May 9, 2007)

Ljilly28 said:


> Nice one, Hooch. How are you feeling today?


I feeling like I might be spitting out 8000 dollar puppies any minute, ROFL


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Dslats said:


> :crazy: I don't know much about the $ part of a high breed puppy but I think myself thats ALOT!!!
> 
> Debbie & mason


Although there is some training, and air shipping is "included", I feel that it is high, as well, for puppies out of unfinished dogs.


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

OMG insane!!


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

Her pet quality pups are $1250. I think those $3000-$4500 ones are show-quality which basically means for future breeding.


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## tsdairy (Dec 9, 2007)

OMG is all I can say! That's A LOT! Pretty dogs though!


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Some of the pet puppies are 3,500 with spay included and some training. That is inconceivable to me.


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

Ljilly28 said:


> Some of the pet puppies are 3,500 with spay included and some training. That is inconceivable to me.


Yep, your right. I suppose they would have to be some very well-trained pups!


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Lucky's mom said:


> Yep, your right. I suppose they would have to be some very well-trained pups!


 

Yep... even "started on housetraining" :doh::doh::uhoh::uhoh::doh::doh:


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## Prov31 (Aug 16, 2006)

Well, if the training includes doing the laundry and vacuuming up dog hair, then it might be worth it!


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

They are gorgeous but I couldn't afford that even if I wanted to!


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## vrocco1 (Feb 25, 2006)

Actually, this is more common then you might think. Buying a puppy in which the original breeder gets two puppies back easily exceeds $3.5K. Agreements like that happen all the time, and most people don't think twice about it.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Lucky's mom said:


> Her pet quality pups are $1250. I think those $3000-$4500 ones are show-quality which basically means for future breeding.


Not necessarily, as one of the puppies listed's price included neutering. And frankly, experienced exhibitors do not purchase puppies like this.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

> Actually, this is more common then you might think. Buying a puppy in which the original breeder gets two puppies back easily exceeds $3.5K. Agreements like that happen all the time, and most people don't think twice about it.


Promising show puppies from Jesse/Quiz, Zoom, Rocket or Boston- Yes, make me pay! I want to. But 3,500 dollars for a 5 month old spayed pet puppy without titled parents seems crazy to me. . . It has to be some kind of gimmick to get the Oprahs to splurge. Hey wait! Both of Tally's parents are champions and he has his CGC plus he's housebroken . Maybe . . wait for it. . .8,100$???


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Ljilly28 said:


> Promising show puppies from Jesse/Quiz, Zoom, Rocket or Boston- Yes, make me pay! I want to. But 3,500 dollars for a 5 month old spayed pet puppy without titled parents seems crazy to me. . . It has to be some kind of gimmick to get the Oprahs to splurge. Hey wait! Both of Tally's parents are champions and he has his CGC plus he's housebroken . Maybe . . wait for it. . .8,100$???


Exactly! My boys have CH parents on one side, housebroken, CGC, do I get half that? LOL.
Too bad , we all know our pups are priceless!


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

vrocco1 said:


> Actually, this is more common then you might think. Buying a puppy in which the original breeder gets two puppies back easily exceeds $3.5K. Agreements like that happen all the time, and most people don't think twice about it.


 
To me that is like comparing apples to cole slaw, Vern. The subject puppy sales are not being sold in a manner that experienced breeder/exhibitors would agree to, as a rule. The scenario that you describe above (although it is generally ONE puppy back as I have seen it), does make sense, and are usually puppies whose parents are both already finished.


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

For $4,500 you could almost buy a Chi-Neuf!!

And get a set of Ginzu-brand Steak Knives absolutely free!!


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

avincent52 said:


> For $4,500 you could almost buy a Chi-Neuf!!
> 
> And get a set of Ginzu-brand Steak Knives absolutely free!!


 
Where do I send my deposit?


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

Actually, we're having a two for the price of one sale on factory second Chi-Neufs.

For six easy payments of $3,000 you have your own Chihuahua-Neufoundland designer dog, and we'll send you *a second absolutely free.*

But don't delay. *Call 1-800-CHI-NEUF*

Operators are standing by.










*Ch. Lorre's Despised By Rick*


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## vrocco1 (Feb 25, 2006)

Pointgold said:


> To me that is like comparing apples to cole slaw, Vern. The subject puppy sales are not being sold in a manner that experienced breeder/exhibitors would agree to, as a rule. The scenario that you describe above (although it is generally ONE puppy back as I have seen it), does make sense, and are usually puppies whose parents are both already finished.


Nope! I'm talking about the scenario where a breeder sells a puppy on a breeding contract, where it shouldn't be bred. Here on the east coast, where everything is more costly, it is very common to see two puppies required as additional payment. More common then you would think.

Frankly, if someone pays $4500 for the subject puppy, then they probably will be driving a turnip truck when they pick it up.


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## Susan6953 (Jun 9, 2008)

When I was looking for a breeder I found one whose 8 week old puppies cost $2500 and she apparently had no trouble selling them all. They were very light colored and were from European lines which is the "in" thing I guess.

For $3500 I would at least want the puppy to be totally house-trained!


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I heard a story from a well-known breeder at a show, that someone once offered her 50,000 to take her BOS Ch overseas for a breeding program. Could tt]hat be true or a tall tale- I just dont know


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## TheHooch (May 9, 2007)

I know at one time the Japanese were coming over here buying champion bird dogs left and right for 15,000 dollars a piece. I didn;t even know the Japanese had any available land for hunting.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

vrocco1 said:


> Nope! I'm talking about the scenario where a breeder sells a puppy on a breeding contract, where it shouldn't be bred. Here on the east coast, where everything is more costly, it is very common to see two puppies required as additional payment. More common then you would think.
> 
> Frankly, if someone pays $4500 for the subject puppy, then they probably will be driving a turnip truck when they pick it up.


 
I'm scratching my head, here...It's your first sentence above. Breeding contract/shouldn't be bred. Whut???
I know there are lots of breeders who maintain an option on a puppy back, but not as _required_! Gads...


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## Doolin (Jun 23, 2008)

As far as the Japanese go with buying dogs, I have talked to more then one breeder friend who have said they were offered anywhere from 50 to 100K for their boy. These however are not your run of the mill CH, these are BIS and National Specialty winners. The Japanese did this in Toy Poodles and practically own the breed from what I am told by a friend. I think they failed with the goldens as most of the really good golden breeders would not consider sending their best stuff overseas.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Particularly in the 80's, the Japanese were buying AM Ch's for exhorbitant prices. GRCA National Specialites would see many Japanese attending, attempting to purchase top dogs. I was offerered an obscene amount of money for Lyric on several occasions. I know that Mary Burke was hounded about selling James (AmCan Ch Asterling's Wild Blue Yonder, OS, SDHF) and he was considered the "one to get". 
Unfortunately, many American dogs were finished here, and sold overseas, having failed clearances here. Money talks... :doh:Of course, being bred perpetuated the problems. I think that there is much less of that going on now, as these other countries have worked harder towards educating themselves and eliminating those health issues. It's getting better, slowly.


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## Ripley Goldens (Jan 9, 2008)

We don't charge have that for pups out of a mutliple specialty wininng boy with excellent hip and a champion bitch. Vern is right that breeders will place a female with 2 puppies back, which does exceed these prices but we further reduce the sales price when we do that, knowing the expense that goes into showing etc. Wow....but as PG points out, the majority are going spayed or neutered. What is one getting? Yikes.

I have what I think will be a very special litter coming up...and for a second considered what those puppies could fetch but you know what. I would out price the truly good homes both show and companion. 

I pondered what the sales target would be for these pups and it wouldn't be the very wealthy cause they generally want a trophy puppy that they can brag about lineage. Then there are the pet folk, that I would guess could find a comparable pup closer to home (if shipping is required) for half the price or less.

Wow..is all I have to say. WOW!


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## Ripley Goldens (Jan 9, 2008)

I have been offered obscene amounts of money for Rocket....so I am guessing that it is probably close to the truth. There are breeders that sell lots of puppies or young hopeful overseas when something goes wrong....failing prelims (that are never sent in to cya), etc. More obvious faults tend not to go overseas because the buyers would bee peeved when the dog arrives and has a bad bite for example. Those pups are usually placed in pet homes here but from what I understand, the price is very close to a puppy. Maybe a tad more to account for training etc., but not twice the value. I am blown away by this.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

It will be interesting to see if these dogs sell. Wish we could know if they get their price.


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## noblenewf (Jul 7, 2008)

That's ridiculous.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

There is some ethereal concept that matters in selling dogs for such high prices- not exactly sportsmanship, not horsemanship or husbandry- but dogmanship I guess. Can it possibly be good sense to sell a five months old with pet prospects for 4,500? Who is the buyer? Someone in NYC or Dallas wanting an ornament or art obect or Christmas present but knowing nothing about goldens, figuring the highest price equals "the best"? I don't see things going well for the dog in question.

I could only see paying that much for a top show puppy from champion, great clearances parents from an amazing breeder who was willing to mentor if i planned to found a line of goldens . . .


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

I would think for $4500 you could come up with a better name than "Roufy."

But we all know about the high cost of living in Garrison Montana.

The population is 112, the per capita income is $12,678, and 36.4% of the population is living below the poverty line.

These dogs could make the breeder the King (or Queen) of Garrison!!

Here's their interstate rest stop. Don't miss it!


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## Memphis & Holly's Mom (Feb 16, 2008)

Holy cow!!! Now I know why they call 'em goldens...that is a chunk of change IMO. But they are so adorable, so I can see justifying getting one..LOL


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## ragtym (Feb 3, 2008)

Okay, while I might not agree with the prices that she is charging, I really don't think that Florence (Mattiaci) deserves some of the negative comments about her kennel/breeding practices.

These are not 7-8 week old pups with no training, they are 5-7 months old with some basic obedience training. There is time and effort invested in these pups and my guess is that is why she is asking for those prices.


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## tintallie (May 31, 2006)

Let's break it down here: 

It costs me $2.37 to feed my dog a raw diet each day. From 8 weeks to 7 months is 154 days so it is almost $365 to feed my dog. 
In that time if my dog is healthy, I would have gone to the vet for shots maybe twice (including rabies) so that's another $120 or so. 
Basic obedience training is about $300 and if you buy some basic supplies like a crate ($150), stainless steel dishes ($25), leash ($30), collar ($20), toys($100)

It would cost me at this point: $2110 if the puppy was $1000 to start.

If you add the airline shipping maybe in the $450 ? it would still be WELL under $4500 listed.

Some of my estimates are on the high side like toys, leash, collar as I like to put some money on my dog, but that is not for every one. Other people would balk at it costing them that much to feed a prepared raw diet but my dog is in excellent health now (he wasn't when we got him at 4 months from the breeder).

If this was a show prospect, I should hope that my dog doesn't have a rear assembly as shown.


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

> Okay, while I might not agree with the prices that she is charging, I really don't think that Florence (Mattiaci) deserves some of the negative comments about her kennel/breeding practices.
> 
> These are not 7-8 week old pups with no training, they are 5-7 months old with some basic obedience training. There is time and effort invested in these pups and my guess is that is why she is asking for those prices.


I re-read the thread. I didn't see one comment about her kennel or breeding practices.
The only negative comments were about the price. What she charges is between her and her customers. (And the IRS, but I digress.)

Personally, I'd rather have one factory reject Chi-Neuf than two of those $4500 goldens, but that's just me. 

allen


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## ragtym (Feb 3, 2008)

> I re-read the thread. I didn't see one comment about her kennel or breeding practices.


Really? This isn't a negative comment on your part? 



> I would think for $4500 you could come up with a better name than "Roufy."
> 
> But we all know about the high cost of living in Garrison Montana.
> 
> ...


Is this or is this not an insinuation about how she lives and what her motives are?


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Debles said:


> Exactly! My boys have CH parents on one side, housebroken, CGC, do I get half that? LOL.
> Too bad , we all know our pups are priceless!


Debles, Even if I gave you my house, my car, and all three of my dogs, you STILL wouldnt part with your boys.


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## Fransheska (Mar 9, 2008)

i think thats way too much, sorry, but trained or not.. $4500..come on now. you can get a GREAT Puppy from a better place for $2000, and alot of breeders and rescues sometimes have older puppies available for some reason, and do u see them priced at $4500.. no. ive been offered that much and more for tyler, but hes an adult soo you can see what he looks like unlike a puppy where u have no idea what he/she will look like as an adult, plus tyler isnt neutered so people offer that much not just because they want a good looking pet


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

> I re-read the thread. I didn't see one comment about her kennel or breeding practices.
> Really? This isn't a negative comment on your part?


It's not a comment on her kennel or her breeding practices. I know less than nothing about that and don't feel qualified to comment. 

I just think it's kind of amusing that the nation's highest priced goldens aren't raised in Connecticut or New Jersey, or suburban Virginia, or the San Francisco bay area but in a place where a third of the 112 people live below the poverty line. 

I would imagine if you're charging $4,500 for a puppy part of your motive is making money, no matter where you live. That's not to suggest they're not quality dogs and they're not treated well. 

I don't know.

If the breeder sells all her puppies for asking price, that's $20,000 which is not quite double the average per capita income of Garrison. 

It a breeder in Greenwich CT, where the per capita income is $74,000, were to try to do the same thing, those puppies would be roughly $30,000 each. 

That said, I think Roufy is really stupid name. 

allen


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## Fransheska (Mar 9, 2008)

avincent52 said:


> It's not a comment on her kennel or her breeding practices. I know less than nothing about that and don't feel qualified to comment.
> 
> I just think it's kind of amusing that the nation's highest priced goldens aren't raised in Connecticut or New Jersey, or suburban Virginia, or the San Francisco bay area but in a place where a third of the 112 people live below the poverty line.
> 
> ...


i think roufy is kind of cute, i guess it depends on the puppy and the person. sometimes a name just fits the personality.. to each his own.


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## Doolin (Jun 23, 2008)

As someone who has done a budget on the costs of maintaining a puppy for 7- 9 months with training, this price isn't that unreasonable. You really have to factor in food, vaccinations/vet visits, collars, leashes, training, bones, the original purchase price of a puppy from the litter. I figured with a very cheap trainer $150 per month a 8 month old puppy would run $3000. I think you also have to realize that there are many people who would prefer to have a puppy started off correctly. Life is so much easier when proper training is given. Most puppy buyers don't have a clue and even with help aren't as successful as those who have a great deal of experience. 

I would never look negatively on someone for the price they charge. I only look at what their breeding practices are-good or bad.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Anyone notice that the first three pups are all different ages - 4 months, 4.5 months and 5 months but are all said to have the same dam?


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## GoldenOwner12 (Jun 18, 2008)

I wouldn't spend that much on any dog really. Whos to say that the dog is actually is trained, People can lie you know. I would rather train my own dog then have a trainer or someone else train him/her. Also think of it this way would that dog really listen to someone else beside the trainer. Einstein won't even take food off a stranger let alone listen to there commands. Not even a little toddler can feed him he just plain refuses to take food off them. For that price i want at least a gold nugget, a golden thatt is house broken,trained like those dogs on movies are like air bud,se spot run,turner and hooch etc. I find if you do the training yourself the dog learns with you and will more likely listen better if it were his actuall owner teaching him/her. Put it this way if some person you didn't even know came up to you and told you to pull your pants down would you do it? The most golden retrievers cost here in australia is $1500 the most. My parents think i'm mad wanting to spend $900 on a dog let alone $4500 what these people are asking. I don't care what training they have had. If i was breeding goldens my puppies would be going home with some toilet training, knowing the sit and drop command and probably a bit of leash training, Would i charge more cause i've did that no i wouldn't i would ask the going rate of say $900 for pet $1200 for show. I think its a breeders responabilty to make sure the dog leaves her without any problems and at least had some training eg toilet traing,sit,drop things like that.


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

> Put it this way if some person you didn't even know came up to you and told you to pull your pants down would you do it?


You didn't really just ask that, did you?

It's funny how we're approaching this, by backing out the breeder's "costs."
But products aren't priced by production cost. Just go to the cineplex and note that Juno ($5 million to make) and Transformers ($200 million) both cost the same $10.
Supply and demand rules the market.

Simply, she's pushing the market (just look at the reactions here.) Someday, $4500 puppies might be as common as $10 movie tickets.


best
allen


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## Tanyac (Jun 18, 2008)

Just wondering if the breeder in question might have kept these puppies back from a particular litter to see if they made the grade for show. This is common practice here in UK for a breeder of show puppies to keep 2 back and run them on for say 6 months, eventually choosing the one they wish to keep. If that is the case, then wouldn't the puppies she's selling at 6 months technically being her 'rejects'.

I think anyone who is prepared to pay such an astronomical amount for a dog needs their head examining... I have never heard of anything like this in the UK. If you want a show quality puppy you have to be prepared to wait.

If these pups were so suitable for show they would have been sold before they were born... just my opinion.

That said, they are lovely little chaps, just why can't the US standardise the prices paid for puppies like they do in the UK? Just raises the argument for puppy mills and BYB's. Here in UK pups are fairly even in price. I've never seen one for more than £650 (about $1200) and that would be from a top show kennel. For that price you get a top show or family dog with no distinction in the price between the two. Generally, bitches may cost a little more than dogs but not much.

Like to know what you think.


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## Emma&Tilly (May 15, 2005)

I have always thought that aswell Tanya...in the UK prices seem a bit more stable and you don't get the extremes like you do in the US...people just would not pay ridiculous amounts for a dog whatever the kennel name and show potential...as there is a standard(ish) price of about £500-£600, and you would be a complete mug to pay thousands of pounds for a golden retriever puppy. How breeders can single out puppies in the same litter and charge more for their 'potential' is beyond me...what if they don't live up to their potential...do you get some money back...its a crazy way to do things!


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## Tanyac (Jun 18, 2008)

I think the question for breeders should be: why do we breed? If it is to improve what they have then I'd say that was good, to ensure temperament and inherited diseases are minimised, good also. That said, there is no justification whatsoever in selling any puppy for such amounts... therefore money making must play a part. If all breeders had a maximum price of say $1500 for a puppy, then there would be less unscrupulous breeders trying to make a quick buck.

I have never met a breeder of Golden Retrievers in the ~UK who was making a comfortable living from breeding dogs. That is NOT why they do it! Obviously there will be some who rely on selling puppies for their living, but as previously posted, pups just don't sell for silly amounts of money.

I'd be interested in hearing a justification from US breeders.


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

> That said, they are lovely little chaps, just why can't the US standardise the prices paid for puppies like they do in the UK? Just raises the argument for puppy mills and BYB's.


How exactly do you do that? It seems pretty tough to organize a diverse group like breeders successfully. And if you did, there would be anti-trust issues. 



> That said, there is no justification whatsoever in selling any puppy for such amounts... therefore money making must play a part. If all breeders had a maximum price of say $1500 for a puppy, then there would be less unscrupulous breeders trying to make a quick buck.
> 
> I have never met a breeder of Golden Retrievers in the ~UK who was making a comfortable living from breeding dogs. That is NOT why they do it! Obviously there will be some who rely on selling puppies for their living, but as previously posted, pups just don't sell for silly amounts of money.
> 
> I'd be interested in hearing a justification from US breeders.


I don't see a problem with at least a partial profit motive. If you get paid like a professional, you're more likely to act like one.

The way I see it, it's an enforced MINIMUM price that could force out the unscrupulous breeders. It seems to me that a breeder who grosses $60,000 by selling 15 puppies a year for $4,500 isn't the problem. They can breed those two litters very carefully and will be held to task by the buyers.

The real problem: the person trying to make the same amount by selling 200 puppies a year for $300 each.

*We don't have that problem with our Chi-Neufs. We have only two carefully selected breedings a year. With our hardy dogs, and our special Fertility Feed, we get 150 pups per litter!! At $18,000 a dog...well, you do the math.*










*At Chi-Neuf TM, we avoid painful and costly hip problems by making sure their precious paws never touch the ground!*

best
Allen


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## Tanyac (Jun 18, 2008)

Firstly, what a priceless photo!!!

I agree with what you are saying in principal, and am trying to expain my thoughts but it seems to me that if the most respected breeder in each state were to say put a price cap on their puppy prices, they would not only still sell their litters but all those who look up to their professionalism / standards etc would begin to follow suit. After all, why pay the same price for a racing car as an old banger? 

I don't have any problems with making some profit from the sale of any service or commodity breeders are after all providing a service, they are producing what the buyers want, but just pushing the prices up makes those unable to afford a $3000 puppy pay the lesser amount for what could well be a poorly bred, poorly reared puppy. This indeed, is why I think the puppy mills will always exist. 

I hope I explained that ok


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## Tanyac (Jun 18, 2008)

I'd just like to add that we do have puppy mills here in the UK but with the prices standardised as they are, it's not hard to find a properly bred puppy.

By the way, the BBC is showing a programme tonight about the problems with health issues in pedigree dogs, should be interesting.


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

> I agree with what you are saying in principal, and am trying to expain my thoughts but it seems to me that if the most respected breeder in each state were to say put a price cap on their puppy prices, they would not only still sell their litters but all those who look up to their professionalism / standards etc would begin to follow suit. After all, why pay the same price for a racing car as an old banger?


We at Chi-Neuf TM are *fighting puppy inflation* with our patented *Precious Puppy Price Protection Pledge!!* 
We guarantee that when you order one of our designer Chihuahua-Neufoundland hybrids *our easy interest-free payments of $3,000 won't increase until at least 2010!! **

*we reserve the right to increase the _number_ of monthly payments at any time without prior notice or authorization.


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## AmyinAr (Feb 26, 2008)

FlyingQuizini said:


> Anyone notice that the first three pups are all different ages - 4 months, 4.5 months and 5 months but are all said to have the same dam?


yeah, I see that as a way bigger issue than the price, what's going on there? If she can sucker people into paying that much, good for her. Personally I'd rather give $100-$300 to a rescue and get a pup through them, but that's just me...
And if I was going through a breeder, you better believe they would have all sorts of clearances and championships ...


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## Doolin (Jun 23, 2008)

As far as having a generalized price for puppies... I think you will find that most of the really good breeders(at least those in conformation that I know) are very similar in price. Right now, the typical price is $1200 for a puppy. You may find some for $1000, but we do talk to each other to find out where we stand. 

Our philosophy is that you always want to be on the same page as other breeders of the same quality dogs. This way you don't have bargain hunter! So I definitely agree with trying to have standardized prices for puppies. That said I can also understand when some breeders charge more for Show prospects(at least if there is no puppy back requirements). The people charging outrageous prices for their pups are most likely the ones not interested in preserving and improving the breed.


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## Mattiaci (Aug 26, 2008)

I am unimpressed at the cowardice of the members of this bulletin board -- who would criticize the price I sell my older trained puppies and/or any of my buyers who often grow into expended parts of my family -- on a bulletin board I am not even a member of. My phone number and e-mail address are CLEARLY stated on every page of my website, and I was not questioned personally by any of you. I will endeavor to make this my first and last post at this pet forum/bulletin board. I have a lot of goldens to walk, jog, swim and bike when we're at the ranch. I truly have better things to do. I'm very sorry some owner has chosen to complain about anyone's prices they think they are an authority on. All 6 pages that there seem to be. One search online would show my prices are generally half of what is charged.

It's true, I live in a county where it is not legal to subdivide less than 160 acres, and those who can afford to buy the ranch next door to us must have million dollar pocket change --- for what will likely not even be their sole residence. It is a priceless location, that everyone who visits exclaims is dog heaven. I can and do spend more than twice the average income of anyone living anywhere in the US, on the care, spoiling and exhibition of my dogs primarily in the bred-by-exhibitor class all over the US, every year. If there are folks who live 7 miles away which include my farrier, dog sitter, retired grooming clients, postmaster that make less annual income than your neighbors? It's really of no consequence to me and I fail to see what that has to do with dogs other than to make yourself seem not as small. I wouldn't want to live anywhere else with dogs no matter what that town's median income was.

This discussion is reminiscent of a golden show e-list where someone thought ABC Goldens selling their trained golden retrievers for $11,000 was "too much." ELEVEN THOUSAND DOLLARS. I don't know anything about their kennel, practices or dogs but they are on a show golden e-list and seemed very open to anyone who wanted to contact them. Field trial dogs are often trained and sold for thousands more than a puppy, and more have been sold for much more an any AKC Champion was ever sold overseas. Most breeders at shows on the coasts state their pet puppies sell for $2,000. My pets are $1,250 on spay/neuter contracts. For those complaining about a breeder being anywhere near a business? Sorry to burst your bubble -- but you have breeders amongst your little group that clearly state on their sites they accept credit cards for puppies and are LLC's. I noted their muteness on disclosing their breeding practices or numbers of litters for their business when they happily piped up and explained they, of course, had puppies for sale if you didn't want to buy an "expensive" older trained puppy from anyone. That's rich.

These are not dogs that failed a health clearance. These a puppies I have specifically kept to grow out from my breeding program. My price for a puppy I've grown out to 5 months, trained, and includes spaying or neutering, the shipping crate and freight costs and for a pick show puppy that I've grown out to 7 months, has prelim clearances with shipping costs is on the low end of what some breeders sell their puppies for. As stated there are many breeders who sell dogs with puppies or litters back, that easily ads up to over $10,000 when added up. 

This is parrallel to the argument why PETA is wrong in saying a buyer who buys from a breeder is putting a shelter dog to death. A buyer who is seeking a quality puppy or dog from a breeder is not going to want a mixed breed or purebred shelter dog of unknown origin and past. They have researched breeders, dogs, pedigrees, longevity, temperament, allergies, many, many factors that they are looking for and any they are specifically looking for the puppies some of us produce, who have trained dozens of dogs, titled up to a UD and produced group placing champions that they didn't have to pay a handler to finish or win with. 

Many of my buyers routinely drive at least 2 hours round trip, and one family 10 hours round trip, just to board their dogs with me -- and there are no shortage of boarding facilities just minutes from their house in their city. Many of my buyers have returned to buy additional puppies. I have hundreds of photos from my buyers of my babies from the last 18 years of breeding. I am now into my 21st year of showing golden retrievers and it's bittersweet to have buyers come back after their goldens have died of old age. None deserve the negative descriptions given for choosing to buy an older trained puppy at any price. And certainly not from any us breeder/owner/handlers that drive and fly 60,000 miles a year all over the US showing our dogs primarily in the bred-by exhibitor class, travel the world to see the breed in other countries, have many generations of clearances on our dogs, do rescue, & have done the 12 hour drive each way on interstates to breed to a 10 year old Champion stud dog who's dam is still alive at 16 + in hopes of continuing to produce healthy, long lived golden champions and pets.

Florence Mattice





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## GoldenOwner12 (Jun 18, 2008)

Mattiaci all i'm going to say is my male golden retriever Einstein only cost me $650 from a registered breeder, He knows all the things that tango that you have advertised for $3500 plus more. My Einstein knows how to cross a road,ignore other dogs and people, has excellent recall. I've trained him he can only run so far infront of me then has to stop and wait for me to catch up. He learnt all this by time he was 6 months old. I trained him all on my own with no help from trainers or obedience clubs. Einstein was my first dog and still is with me today. Einstein can also walk off lead and stay beside me heel at all times, He won't leave my side even if a dog was runing towards him. Does this mean i could get $3000-$4000 for him no i couldn't you know why cause he will not obey other peoples commands not even when he was a puppy. Einstein saw me as his owner and leader and will not obey others commands, He won't take food from strangers not even a little toddler. To me i prefer to train and bring up my own dogs the way i want too. I also find it a good bonding time when training as the dog learns with you and from you. Shelley is only 19 weeks old and she knows what tango does, I only got her for $600 from a registered breeder. Registered breeders here in australia do not charge $3500 just cause the dog knows how to sit,drop,stay,heel.wait for meals.sit when stop etc. I think its wrong to say that $4500 isn't much money well to me its alot it would take me 4 years to save up that ammount. To buy my babies and desexing and cost to picking them up only cost me $1000 at the most each dog. Like i said i would rather train and bring up my own puppy from the age of 8 weeks old. I choose not to use trainers or obedience clubs as i don't like the way they treat there dogs around my area. My 2 are very intelligent they know how to sit with 1 click of the fingers drop with 2 clicks. They will also sit and drop when i tell them too. The way my dogs are being trained in my eyes they seem to know better and more then what your Tango does. Everyone is different maybe in your eyes your dogs are prefect like my dogs are in my eyes, but it doesn't make them worth more money. You try advertise a golden puppy here in australia for $3500 i'm sure you won't get much buyers specially from me. Einstein also knows to speak when told too. Here in australia even if i brouight a main registered dog for $1200 desexing $150,flight $180 vaccinations $50,microchipping $44 obedience club $50per year would still come out cheaper then your $3500 dog. So to say your dogs are cheaper then those around the country and states seems to abit much cause here in australia those prices are not cheaper.


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## SoGolden (Jul 17, 2008)

Ms Mattiaci,
As you stated that you joined the GRF to make this one and only post, I am uncertain if you will read this... I can only hope you may stay long enough to allow others to speak to this issue. I believe there are over 6,000 members on this Forum and (unfortunately) you have been put off by a small minority of them. I read this "thread" as it developed; instead of throwing a stone, I reviewed your web site. (as I am sure many others have done). 

Your dogs are quite beautiful and your credentials are impressive. I am bringing home a puppy today from another breeder and, as I am not as young as I once was, it is hard to face all of the demands on me that it will take during these first months. It is tempting to contact you for a pup who has been "started". I would have questions for you concerning the dog; most people would. I may ask the advice of others on this Forum about purchasing one of your dogs. But, I see that was not the case here. Instead of advice, criticism was heaped upon someone behind their back. I am sorry that happened to you on this Forum. There are probably many others who read this and went to your website to learn more about you. We just didn't bother to post any positive feedback. 

I hope you consider staying with the Forum. You have many years of experience with Golden's and I am sure have a wealth of information to share with us. As for those criticisms about your prices, or where your choose to live, or who your neighbors are-- You are in the business world and I am sure you have experienced worse. Yet, as a business owner, I hope you are appreciative of the free advertising! I know someone else who wants a Golden and doesn't feel up to the demands of training through the puppy stages... I'll give him your web address. 

Welcome to the Forum! Enjoy your stay!


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I agree with Doolin that most breeders stay in the ballpark of one another's prices. I apologize to the seller who felt personaly attacked; there was no intent to get personal or mention human names- just a continuation of another thread reflecting on prices for puppies and a rueful sense of sticker shock. No commentary on her particular dog practices or the quality of her dogs was intended or possible- I dont know anything about her and stumbled upon her ad unbiased . She seems to be a wonderful handler of many dog breeds. I came across her ad in GRWeekly while helping my mom search for an older golden bc they are going through the puppy stages with QB. We did find & purchase a beautifully trained 1 year old for 1,300 from a very reputable and even famous breeder- all clearences, spay completed, lovely manners, both parents AM CH. Could I sell my 11 month old with his Canine Good Citizen, friendly, loving disposition, all health clearances, two champion parents for the 11,000 pricetag mentioned? Well, I guess that would be fine in some peoples' perspectives. However, something about that doesnt sit right with me- in only my personal opinion- bc then a dog becomes first and formost a material object rather than a beloved companion to humans.What if i started dog after dog, charging 10,000 each time, tapping just the right markets? Well, I guess I could do that, others do and people clearly have support for that, but deep down, I know it would be disrespectful not just to other breeders/trainers but to the dogs themselves who are not BMWs but living beings. I do not feel that a dog person, a reasonable, common sensical person with good dog skills, would pay wisely 11,000 or 3,500 for a neuterd/spayed pet quality 5 month puppy from two nonchampion/nonworking titled parents. However, that is just my personal opinion of what makes sense, and isnt a personal commentary on anyone. If the 3,500 dogs go to happy homes, more power to everyone involved- I am just not going to be the buyer or seller of one and speak for myself only . The dogs were very publicly advertised in a "for sale" venue, not random- it was not anything personal to Ms. M nor any personal drama intended. Sorry she felt singled out personally.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

There was nothing wrong with this thread, and discussing this particular breeder was a very small part of it, once it evolved- and further, there was nothing derogatory said about her breeding practices. Her dogs were complimented. The thread was about prices charged and that is always going to be a topic of interest - whether you spend twice the average income on spoiling your dogs or, as the average pet owner don't put a price on the love you give them. 

There was no "cowardice" here, and it seems to me that Ms. Mattice's defensiveness was disproportionate.


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## Tanyac (Jun 18, 2008)

Pointgold said:


> There was nothing wrong with this thread, and discussing this particular breeder was a very small part of it, once it evolved- and further, there was nothing derogatory said about her breeding practices. Her dogs were complimented. The thread was about prices charged and that is always going to be a topic of interest - whether you spend twice the average income on spoiling your dogs or, as the average pet owner don't put a price on the love you give them.
> 
> There was no "cowardice" here, and it seems to me that Ms. Mattice's defensiveness was disproportionate.


I would second this sentiment. I feel that the thread was purely about the pricing issues the original advertisement raised. I feel strongly that it is a valid topic and should be debated.

I stand by any comments I made earlier in the thread, and do not feel that I made any negative comments on breeding practices etc. Things are done very differently around the world, it's interesting to find out how things 'work' in other places.

Still, however the breeder feels justified, I still think it's too many $$$$$$'s, sorry!


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