# Hammy Hip Dysplasia Diagnosis-NOT Doom & Gloom-Stem Cell Therapy Here We Come!



## cwag (Apr 25, 2017)

That's interesting. I hope it goes well for sweet Hammie. My husband is interested in stem cell treatments for his knees.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

THank you for sharing the latest, I'm so glad you have an option you feel good about. I hope you will update this thread. It will help people in the future when they do a search on this subject. I love that you included "stem cell therapy" in the title of the thread so that it will come up. 

Do you mind sharing with us what insurance you have and updating us as well on how you feel your coverage has worked as you go through this? I am so happy for you that it's covering this treatment. Pretty amazing.


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## Goldieluvr1 (May 2, 2014)

nolefan said:


> THank you for sharing the latest, I'm so glad you have an option you feel good about. I hope you will update this thread. It will help people in the future when they do a search on this subject. I love that you included "stem cell therapy" in the title of the thread so that it will come up.
> 
> Do you mind sharing with us what insurance you have and updating us as well on how you feel your coverage has worked as you go through this? I am so happy for you that it's covering this treatment. Pretty amazing.


The insurance company we chose, Healthy Paws. HP processes the claims so fast. In fact this is amazing/sad. I have been trying to get reimbursed from my health insurance company for costs from last October from claims submitted at time of treatment. 

I have been submitting claims for Hammy for HD diagnosis in the last two weeks. I came home yesterday, and had two checks from Healthy Paws that I had submitted late last week. I also had a check from my own personal health insurance company from just one of the claims I submitted last October. Hammy literally has better health insurance than I do, and my plan is PPO from work. Great for him! I never have to get pre-authorizations for him for any treatment. Our monthly premium for Hammy is $85, and his treatments have paid for the premiums, and over his lifetime I expect that will continue with ongoing stem cell injections. 

The breakdown of costs for the stem cell harvest, where it's initially taken from his abdomen are as follows:
Stem cell prep (initial processing fee) $1425
Laparoscop assist $99
Stem cell prep overnight $131
Stem cell adipose tissue harvest $354
Anesthesia $625

The injections of the stem cell will vary from $500-$750, and Hammy could require more than one injection per treatment. The first year of storage fees of Hammy's stem cells is included in the price, but I believe the fee is around $750 per year after that, I need to investigate. 

Healthy Paws considers this to be alternative treatment which again is covered under the plan, Trupanion doesn't include alternative treatment coverage in general plan, but does offer it as a rider. Just read fine print of any plan you are considering, if the dog is older, be sure to ask about pre-existing conditions because those wouldn't be covered. 

Goldies are prone to health problems, and that doesn't include the injuries, torn ACL's, swallowing socks, I recommend pet health insurance to anyone, but especially to our beloved breed. It's such a relief to not have to worry about the cost of anything related to his care and just focus on getting him better. Another benefit of Healthy Paws, there are no lifetime caps of coverage/payout, I believe Trupanion caps out at $20,000 a year.


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## Goldieluvr1 (May 2, 2014)

cwag said:


> That's interesting. I hope it goes well for sweet Hammie. My husband is interested in stem cell treatments for his knees.


Thank you! Stem cell treatment for dogs is actually extremely more advanced for dogs, and all animals that for humans because there isn't the controversy and lack of funds that exist for us.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

I'm still amazed that they are recommending any treatment other than diet, exercise and glucosamine supplements...the original rads you posted were pretty okay. Still interested in the grading OFA gives them.


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## Goldieluvr1 (May 2, 2014)

The arthritis is truly bothering him. OFA is subjective to only one radiologist at this point as he isn’t 24 minths yet. Five vets have seen Hammy and all agree on this course of treatment. I will be interested in what OFA is, but going with the vets that have treated my boy. PennHip also should give us further info as to how it will progress.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Well, he has had several sets of radiographs and 5 ortho visits with (I presume) manipulation in the last two weeks. And you have him signed up for PH too. None of that is passive... you never mentioned pain at all initially, just that he 'sat funny'... maybe the pain is from all the manipulation. The radiographs don't show arthritis or anything else that would explain pain. I too am anxious to hear what OFA says- yes, it is one opinion but that opinion is one that sees more hips than all the others put together so don't let that be a deterrent to believing. I feel so sorry for this lovely dog.


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## marshafuzia (Jul 15, 2017)

Good luck with your stem cell therapy! I think it is amazing and I'd like to share my story with you. Back in 2007 I had the dog of my dreams! I had such big plans for him! He was to be my " everything dog "; a breed CH, obedience star, field work, tracking. My heart dog, " Walker " did eventually do most of that for me. But, we had a rough start. He was like an obedience prodigy, earning his CD at 7 months old. He was a big, fast growing puppy. And, occasionally he would be a " little off " in his gait. I took him to my vet and was told it was just " pano ". One day, my trainer said we should video Walker gaiting and send it to my breeder and see what she thought. I'll never forget that phone call, when Jane called me and said " I've never seen anything like it...get that dog to an ortho specialist a.s.a.p! " A referral from my vet sent us to Dr Timothy McCarthy in Tigard, Oregon. My dreams came crashing down when I was told that Walker had severe elbow dysplasia in both elbows and mild hip dysplasia. Dr McCarthy told me what he wanted to do with arthroscopic surgery and also suggested Stem Cell therapy. He said it had been used for a few years on horses and that they were just now trying it with dogs. I agreed and the surgery and stem cell all went well. One year later Walker had a follow up check up. Dr McCarthy gave me the go ahead to start training and competing again. We did and promptly got his UD and VER titles. I retired him from obedience after that because I didn't want to continue jumping him even though Walker never showed any signs of limping or being sore. We started field work and he earned his WC & JH titles. I had just gotten his WCX title and had a great video of the land triple. It had been over two years since I'd talked to Dr McCarthy, so I thought he'd enjoy seeing the video and to hear how Walker was doing. Here is the response I got from him: " Marsha, thank you so much for the video! Walker is amazing! He should not even be walking! " I guess even the orthopedic surgeon was impressed with the stem cell results! Best boy in the world: SHR Docmar Talkthetalk Walkthewalk UD VER RE JH WCX NWELT2 ( 11/4/2006 - 3/3/17 )


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## Goldieluvr1 (May 2, 2014)

marshafuzia said:


> Good luck with your stem cell therapy! I think it is amazing and I'd like to share my story with you. Back in 2007 I had the dog of my dreams! I had such big plans for him! He was to be my " everything dog "; a breed CH, obedience star, field work, tracking. My heart dog, " Walker " did eventually do most of that for me. But, we had a rough start. He was like an obedience prodigy, earning his CD at 7 months old. He was a big, fast growing puppy. And, occasionally he would be a " little off " in his gait. I took him to my vet and was told it was just " pano ". One day, my trainer said we should video Walker gaiting and send it to my breeder and see what she thought. I'll never forget that phone call, when Jane called me and said " I've never seen anything like it...get that dog to an ortho specialist a.s.a.p! " A referral from my vet sent us to Dr Timothy McCarthy in Tigard, Oregon. My dreams came crashing down when I was told that Walker had severe elbow dysplasia in both elbows and mild hip dysplasia. Dr McCarthy told me what he wanted to do with arthroscopic surgery and also suggested Stem Cell therapy. He said it had been used for a few years on horses and that they were just now trying it with dogs. I agreed and the surgery and stem cell all went well. One year later Walker had a follow up check up. Dr McCarthy gave me the go ahead to start training and competing again. We did and promptly got his UD and VER titles. I retired him from obedience after that because I didn't want to continue jumping him even though Walker never showed any signs of limping or being sore. We started field work and he earned his WC & JH titles. I had just gotten his WCX title and had a great video of the land triple. It had been over two years since I'd talked to Dr McCarthy, so I thought he'd enjoy seeing the video and to hear how Walker was doing. Here is the response I got from him: " Marsha, thank you so much for the video! Walker is amazing! He should not even be walking! " I guess even the orthopedic surgeon was impressed with the stem cell results! Best boy in the world: SHR Docmar Talkthetalk Walkthewalk UD VER RE JH WCX NWELT2 ( 11/4/2006 - 3/3/17 )


Thank you for sharing the story of Walker, what an amazing full life he had with you. Truly breakthrough and elbow dysplasia is so very difficult to treat, as you know. May I ask how was the actual stem cell harvest procedure, scheduling Hammy for the next couple of weeks.


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## Goldieluvr1 (May 2, 2014)

Prism Goldens said:


> Well, he has had several sets of radiographs and 5 ortho visits with (I presume) manipulation in the last two weeks. And you have him signed up for PH too. None of that is passive... you never mentioned pain at all initially, just that he 'sat funny'... maybe the pain is from all the manipulation. The radiographs don't show arthritis or anything else that would explain pain. I too am anxious to hear what OFA says- yes, it is one opinion but that opinion is one that sees more hips than all the others put together so don't let that be a deterrent to believing. I feel so sorry for this lovely dog.


No, pain not from manipulation. You have to understand, this all happened so quickly. Cramming multiple appointments into a seven day period, while working full time, taking care of the hubby and our two other dogs, well, I may have left out some details. 

He tires extremely quickly while playing catch, always has. Licks area on his hips, both sides. Stands with one hind leg farther back than other, that recently started within the last three months. 

Five radiologists confirmed he has arthritis, that doesn't include the 5 vets we saw (two were ortho, two were ours, and another was physical therapy vet (whom we went to after our vet xrayed him). So while it's your opinion that the xrays didn't show arthritis, the vets, actually from radiologists to vets, the total is 11 that concluded that there is indeed arthitis. I tried SO hard to find one vet that would agree with what we were told in Newport Beach, just one. I would have been so happy to scream to the rooftops that I was wrong about what we had been told down there. 

The OFA results will be one piece of the puzzle. We are very, very, very excited to be more than likely avoiding surgery with the stem cell therapy. Thanks for your kind words.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

You checked the box for posting abnormal results?

I feel like if they sent Hammy's films in back when you said they were doing it the results would be up by now? My prelims have always been back within 10 days or so.
Do you remember the name you used on the application? I made him a k9data page with the correct registered name- Pedigree: Grindol's It's Ham'r Time At Victory


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## marshafuzia (Jul 15, 2017)

Dr McCarthy took some tissue from Walker's chest at the same time he did the arthroscopic surgery on his elbows. Be prepared! They shaved all of Walker's gorgeous coat from his chest. He looked like a plucked chicken. But, it was worth it and all the hair grew back quickly! That is Walker in my profile picture. They over nighted the tissue to Vet-Stem in California who processed it and sent stem cells overnight back to Oregon and Dr McCarthy injected Walker's elbows. I believe Walker was only there.....maybe three days? It's been a long time, so I really don't remember. I had to keep Walker on total crate rest for several weeks. I worked at City Hall in Cannon Beach, Oregon and thankfully my City Manager was a dog lover and let me keep a crate next to my desk. When not in his crate, he had to be walked on a leash to go potty. 
Again, Good Luck and I hope you have great success with the stem cell therapy!


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

*OFA prelim result*

For those who were interested. This dog was rated with a normal hip grade (fair) from OFA. 
https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=2031333
Had Dr. Keller (the chief of veterinary services) at OFA recognized any arthritic changes, the rating would not have been a normal rating. While only one veterinarian, it is a rating given by an expert whose every day job is to evaluate all preliminary submissions as he has done for years. Whether the OP determines this result is valuable to them or not, I wanted to share for those that have wanted to see the OFA result since the previously closed thread.


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## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

LJack said:


> For those who were interested. This dog was rated with a normal hip grade (fair) from OFA.
> https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=2031333
> Had Dr. Keller (the chief of veterinary services) at OFA recognized any arthritic changes, the rating would not have been a normal rating. While only one veterinarian, it is a rating given by an expert whose every day job is to evaluate all preliminary submissions as he has done for years. Whether the OP determines this result is valuable to them or not, I wanted to share for those that have wanted to see the OFA result since the previously closed thread.


I think that's a sibling? The other thread listed a different registered name


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## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

I wonder then, if in 4 months they decide to go back and get his official OFA ratings, will the hips have changed? Can hips change in as little as 4 months especially this close to the 2nd birthday. What relief for the owner to know that Hammy does not have horrible hips after all.

ArchersMom, that is the correct AKC number as the original thread, the reg name must have been misspelled in that thread though.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

I'm going to ask a rookie question... help me understand what the additional reg # is all about. Because it's in sequence I would expect it to be a sibling or was there a goof up when the litter was registered?? Typo??


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

Emmdenn said:


> I wonder then, if in 4 months they decide to go back and get his official OFA ratings, will the hips have changed? Can hips change in as little as 4 months especially this close to the 2nd birthday. What relief for the owner to know that Hammy does not have horrible hips after all.
> 
> ArchersMom, that is the correct AKC number as the original thread, the reg name must have been misspelled in that thread though.


It really depends on positioning. If I remember correctly, the ones that she submitted did not have great positioning, although I could be wrong as I was confused over which ones she actually submitted.


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

LJack said:


> For those who were interested. This dog was rated with a normal hip grade (fair) from OFA.
> https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=2031333
> Had Dr. Keller (the chief of veterinary services) at OFA recognized any arthritic changes, the rating would not have been a normal rating. While only one veterinarian, it is a rating given by an expert whose every day job is to evaluate all preliminary submissions as he has done for years. Whether the OP determines this result is valuable to them or not, I wanted to share for those that have wanted to see the OFA result since the previously closed thread.



Thank you Laura! I have been wondering about this... I had a feeling they would come back fair (Not because I am a vet, or a vet tech, but I have seen so many x-rays over the years :grin2


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

ArchersMom said:


> I think that's a sibling? The other thread listed a different registered name


No- the owner had the registered name wrong. OFA and AKC have this name for that number, and entries in the show also showed this name.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

puddles everywhere said:


> I'm going to ask a rookie question... help me understand what the additional reg # is all about. Because it's in sequence I would expect it to be a sibling or was there a goof up when the litter was registered?? Typo??


All pups in a litter have the same number save the last two digits which are 01,02, 03 etc.
IF something happens and a packet is lost, say, what they do is the same number still but retract all the 01-02, etc and start over at 10,11,12... UNLESS there are more than 10 in the original package of reg apps... then they start w 20,,21, 22 etc. That's how when I put dogs on k9data I find out the reg name of all the sibs and their numbers.
The owner just had his name wrong in the thread, that's all. It's not that unusual not to know your dog's correct reg name really, unless you are a show person there is no reason to know it.


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## Goldieluvr1 (May 2, 2014)

I would encourage you to continue monitor Hammy's OFA results as there were other images submitted, including his PennHip results. Hips coming back fair don't rule out hip dysplasia, especially when only one image is submitted for the OFA to review. OFA is a diagnostic tool that is used to diagnose HD.

Hammy does indeed have mild HD, as concluded by Dr. Nicole Buote, othropedic specialist that conducted his PennHip study. The good news is that Hammy is responding very well to supplements...

I'm SO happy that Hammy's results are being reviewed and marked the box to have it made public for a reason....There is absolutely no reason why ALL results shouldn't be made public. If we are indeed all so concerned about improving the breed, and the health of the Goldies, this is a no-brainer.


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## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

Did you get the PH scores back?


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## Goldieluvr1 (May 2, 2014)

Kmullen said:


> It really depends on positioning. If I remember correctly, the ones that she submitted did not have great positioning, although I could be wrong as I was confused over which ones she actually submitted.


We had ALL images submitted, from our vet, Newport Vet, and VCA West LA. The images that have posted results thus far as of Feb 13, 2019 are from first set officially submitted from Newport Vet, with only one image submitted. 

I will never understand why the OFA requires only one image that the vet and/or staff submits to make such a serious and important finding.


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## Goldieluvr1 (May 2, 2014)

Emmdenn said:


> Did you get the PH scores back?


Waiting for the official report from the vet, but this is what I have so far:

Hammy's DI (distraction index) on the right hip = 0.37, left hip = 0.42


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## Goldieluvr1 (May 2, 2014)

Prism Goldens said:


> All pups in a litter have the same number save the last two digits which are 01,02, 03 etc. of
> IF something happens and a packet is lost, say, what they do is the same number still but retract all the 01-02, etc and start over at 10,11,12... UNLESS there are more than 10 in the original package of reg apps... then they start w 20,,21, 22 etc. That's how when I put dogs on k9data I find out the reg name of all the sibs and their numbers.
> The owner just had his name wrong in the thread, that's all. It's not that unusual not to know your dog's correct reg name really, unless you are a show person there is no reason to know it.


I did indeed get Hammy's correct reg name wrong, but shouldn't I know it? :grin2::grin2:

THANK YOU for making the k9data page for him...I think I started one for him but it was all wrong.

This has been a whirlwind of information/roller coaster of the uncertainty because all that matters to Hammy's furr parents is his health....the idea of Hammy being in any pain or suffering from anything, whether its arthritis, HD, his tail from his naughty sister biting it, is just something I can't handle for any of my dogs....and that is my issue I need to deal with.

Hammy's breeder, Monica Dishong has been SO supportive and gave me her honest opinion of the Newport Beach Vet images....she said, "Not the best hips I have seen, not the worst either."

For me this process at times felt as if I was being told to ignore the signs and symptoms Hammy was experiencing, and for Monica to acknowledge it just was everything. She also encouraged me to have the results made public and thought the PennHip was useful in getting the total picture of what is going on. 

For the time being, we are leaving Hammy alone, we have modified his exercise as Dr. Buot doesn't want the sudden stopping/starting because of impact on his joints. Again, the supplements seem to be having a HUGE impact, we are also doing acupuncture.

We were told (NOT by Monica) that we shouldn't show Hammy because having fair hips would preclude him from being bred, (his co-breeder owns breeding rights as Hammy was pick of litter) and dog shows were for "breeding stock only." This was a bit baffling to us, but his health is all that matters, and we are focusing on that for now. 

Hammy will be kept intact and won't be bred. Keeping him intact is decision we have made that many won't understand, but it's for his health. Thanks for listening.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

Thanks Robin, I was curious about the "Additional reg #" on the ofa post. But it seems it was simply a typo as it says SR102 vs SR103 but when you put the SR99102 number in ofa it brings up the SR99103 so same dog with either number.

So OFA gave Hammy "fair" hips on those awful rads done by your vet? And guessing you did not submit the rads done by the tech... because she was a tech & not a vet? Just trying to keep the facts straight .. there has been so much discussed and want to make sure I understand correctly.

FWIW, my girls dam had fair hips... that is passing and no reason to exclude from a breeding program. But certainly would prefer to choose a bitch with good or excellent hips for Hammy's breeding.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Goldieluvr1 said:


> Waiting for the official report from the vet, but this is what I have so far:
> 
> Hammy's DI (distraction index) on the right hip = 0.37, left hip = 0.42


PennHIP has four risk categories: 
Low Risk 0-.3
Mild Risk .3-.5
Moderate Risk .5-.7
High Risk .7-1.0

The most current breed average that I am aware of is .55. So Hammy’s hips are better than breed average and the DIs themselves are not indicating Dysplasia but the risk of it based on the laxity of the hip. You need the Interpretation/Recommendation area of the report to see if PennHIP actually made any notation of OA (Osteoarthritis). The DIs he has are within the PennHIP breeder recommendation unless there is an actual notation of OA in the interpretation.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> We were told (NOT by Monica) that we shouldn't show Hammy because having fair hips would preclude him from being bred, (his co-breeder owns breeding rights as Hammy was pick of litter) and dog shows were for "breeding stock only." This was a bit baffling to us, but his health is all that matters, and we are focusing on that for now.


He just has prelims, which in my opinion would preclude him from being bred. Not the grade. The fact he just has prelims.

Even so, if his prelims were done when he was 6-12 months old, I would have been uncomfortable about a young dog having fair hips - because there's a lot that will change as a pup grows, fills out and matures. However, your dog is nearly 24 months old so it's different. I hope you still do final OFA's when he's 24 months. And speaking honestly, I really hope you don't put that dog through unnecessary procedures. It's not about spending the money. It's putting a dog through stuff when there's nothing wrong with him. Supplements are good. My own dogs are on supplements. But surgeries should not even be discussed based on those hips. Even the stem cell procedure is unnecessary and it's putting the dog through way too much.

W/R to fair hips - in the email I sent you showing the difference between excellent and good and good and fair and fair and mild - it should have been very clear that your dog was going to get a fair grade - and it was still passing. There was a big difference between fair and mild. 

As far as somebody telling you that fairs shouldn't be bred? BALONEY. 

Bertie's paternal grandsire was a very big and well known dog (Hobo) who was used quite a lot. According to OFA, he had 249 offspring who got OFA clearances - of which 135 of those were good, 11 were excellent, and 67 were fair. He had fair hips.

Anyone telling you not to breed a dog with fair hips is somebody who doesn't know what they are talking about.


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## ceegee (Mar 26, 2015)

Goldieluvr1 said:


> Waiting for the official report from the vet, but this is what I have so far:
> 
> Hammy's DI (distraction index) on the right hip = 0.37, left hip = 0.42



It's my understanding that these results aren't bad. They indicate a mild _risk of developing _dysplasia (i.e. he doesn't have it and has only a slight risk of developing it). They don't mean he has mild dysplasia, as the OP said in an earlier post ...


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## DblTrblGolden2 (Aug 22, 2018)

I've been following this post. I'm going through quite a bit with our 10 month old puppy currently and I have to say you have a "Fair Hip" rating, please be happy and celebrate. I'm going through ED problems and some additional issues with the feet. I, like you, have been to several specialists and have gotten several opinions. I did not rely on X-rays and went the extra step with the elbows to have a CT done and 3D imaging of the feet done. 

I got some really alarming opinions along the way. My 10 month old could have already had both feet operated on, but it just didn't make any sense. I had to get another opinion and boy am I glad I did. At this point I've had no less then 6 specialty hospitals look at his scans. (I've been fortunate and the Golden world has helped) The first two places I went to wanted to operate on his feet. They also had the least experience in working dogs and orthopedics. I actually found out that one of the specialists recommending surgery was an oncologist, not an orthopedist. 

My guy was purchased with big plans at performing in Field Trials so structure and soundness are huge for us. I was informed yesterday he will never compete in field trials. I was also informed he should never be used for breeding. I had already come to that conclusion on my own but it's still never something you want to hear. I'm not blaming the breeder, things happen. I'm not thrilled but all the clearances were there, it's a living thing and sometimes we all have flaws. We are hoping that we can get him sound enough to maybe do hunt tests. We've put a lot of time into basic training and honestly he loves it and needs a job. If he can't do hunt tests we will just keep him as a well trained, hopefully very active pet.

Yesterday I went to a Veterinary Orthopedic Sports Surgical Center and I received some of the best advice. They said to "just wait". He's 10 months old. They have put us on a very comprehensive rehab program. I laughed when I saw it because I see people on here that think they exercise their dogs enough and this "rehab program" is more then you could ever imagine. Increasing duration's of brisk walking, no stopping to smell the roses, no less then four times a day. Drills walking backward, side stepping, sitting in proper form then rising, then sitting. Flexing the spine with different exercises. Walking circles from both directions, hill climbing up and coming down. Ten - Fifteen minutes a day of free play. It's extensive to say the least. We are going to do every piece of it everyday.

Here's what they said that made the most sense to me. My guy has an incorrect blunt head in the coronoid process. If I rushed to fix it right now it could still fragment later down the road and we may have to do a repeat surgery. If I just wait it out and build back up all of his muscles properly over time (he's been on crate rest) I could get lucky and it could improve as he grows. That is sort of a pie in the sky dream, but I'm willing to do everything I can to avoid putting him through an unnecessary surgery. If it does not improve and he is symptomatic we will proceed with bilateral arthroscopy with joint clean up, platelet rich plasma injections, and hyaluronic acid injection if needed. We will also inject two of his digits with triamcinolone and perform PennHIP while he is sedated. 

I'm not at all questioning your results or care for your dog, but boy would I be thrilled with a "normal" rating for my guys elbows right now. The old saying don't borrow trouble comes to mind. I wish you the best but take a minute to celebrate. It seems that you have a healthy pup on your hands.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Goldieluvr1 said:


> I did indeed get Hammy's correct reg name wrong, but shouldn't I know it? :grin2::grin2:
> 
> THANK YOU for making the k9data page for him...I think I started one for him but it was all wrong.
> 
> ...


You would not believe how many puppy people have no idea what their dog's registered name is. It cracks me up, but otoh no one calls their dog the name on the AKC papers and they certainly know the call name!!
I made him a page because when I saw the one you started, I realized you'd had a hard time w it, because of how you input some info, like your name under honorifics... and I just always check everything before I put in the database w the AKC database and saw the name was wrong. 

I'm puzzled about your specialist's insistence he has HD. His OFAs are Fair (and he is nearly old enough for finals) from the awful positioning. If the tech-taken ones were better, that'd be interesting. And the PH DI numbers are great, so I don't understand why the DI + the PH still = HD in the specialist's mind. Just curious. 

No reason to show your dog, unless you want to. Conformation is a ring for breeding animals. If he isn't one, or isn't gonna be, and he is as good looking as I remember he is, then you might take points from a dog who IS going to add to the gene pool. I'm with the others who posted sentiment along the lines of wait and see- but he is your dog, so you are gonna do what you want to do, or what you believe should be done. I just know an awful lot of people who would be dancing a jig at those DI numbers..


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## Goldieluvr1 (May 2, 2014)

DblTrblGolden2 said:


> I've been following this post. I'm going through quite a bit with our 10 month old puppy currently and I have to say you have a "Fair Hip" rating, please be happy and celebrate. I'm going through ED problems and some additional issues with the feet. I, like you, have been to several specialists and have gotten several opinions. I did not rely on X-rays and went the extra step with the elbows to have a CT done and 3D imaging of the feet done.
> 
> I got some really alarming opinions along the way. My 10 month old could have already had both feet operated on, but it just didn't make any sense. I had to get another opinion and boy am I glad I did. At this point I've had no less then 6 specialty hospitals look at his scans. (I've been fortunate and the Golden world has helped) The first two places I went to wanted to operate on his feet. They also had the least experience in working dogs and orthopedics. I actually found out that one of the specialists recommending surgery was an oncologist, not an orthopedist.
> 
> ...


I'm not at all questioning your results or care for your dog, but boy would I be thrilled with a "normal" rating for my guys elbows right now. The old saying don't borrow trouble comes to mind. I wish you the best but take a minute to celebrate. It seems that you have a healthy pup on your hands.[/QUOTE]

We are aware how lucky we are, trust me. I'm so sorry for what your boy is going through. You sound a lot like me, going to all of the specialists, trying to get the best information/treatment, and being told different things by all of them. 

The best advice we got also, was wait and see. As I said at the beginning of this thread, surgery likely isn't in the cards since we caught it early and there are things we can do to minimize the impact on Hammy. 

Wishing you and your boy all the best....


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## Goldieluvr1 (May 2, 2014)

Prism Goldens said:


> You would not believe how many puppy people have no idea what their dog's registered name is. It cracks me up, but otoh no one calls their dog the name on the AKC papers and they certainly know the call name!!
> I made him a page because when I saw the one you started, I realized you'd had a hard time w it, because of how you input some info, like your name under honorifics... and I just always check everything before I put in the database w the AKC database and saw the name was wrong.
> 
> I'm puzzled about your specialist's insistence he has HD. His OFAs are Fair (and he is nearly old enough for finals) from the awful positioning. If the tech-taken ones were better, that'd be interesting. And the PH DI numbers are great, so I don't understand why the DI + the PH still = HD in the specialist's mind. Just curious.
> ...


We are waiting to talk to Dr. Buote, she has been so busy with surgeries, and sent the report for us to review ahead of our conversation. The OFA results that have been posted on OFA were done by Newport Vet. I have attached the report below.


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## Goldieluvr1 (May 2, 2014)

puddles everywhere said:


> Thanks Robin, I was curious about the "Additional reg #" on the ofa post. But it seems it was simply a typo as it says SR102 vs SR103 but when you put the SR99102 number in ofa it brings up the SR99103 so same dog with either number.
> 
> So OFA gave Hammy "fair" hips on those awful rads done by your vet? And guessing you did not submit the rads done by the tech... because she was a tech & not a vet? Just trying to keep the facts straight .. there has been so much discussed and want to make sure I understand correctly.
> 
> FWIW, my girls dam had fair hips... that is passing and no reason to exclude from a breeding program. But certainly would prefer to choose a bitch with good or excellent hips for Hammy's breeding.


You are making a lot of assumptions, which is why I just won't be posting here anymore. The first rads we submitted weren't those "awful rads" done by our vet, but by Newport Vet. Why wouldn't we have submitted the rads done by Newport Vet? We submitted ALL of the rads done by every vet/specialist we saw. The issue was never with the rads but by being given a diagnosis by a non-vet. 

I have attached the OFA report we got, that was indeed submitted by Newport Vet, as confirmed on the official document below. There will be other OFA results for Hammy in the coming weeks as the other films are reviewed. 

Newport Beach's OFA's came back first because that is what got submitted first. 

And again, we chose to make these ALL public because it only helps the breed imo. I would encourage all TRULY responsible breeders to also. 

I'm out!


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## Goldieluvr1 (May 2, 2014)

LJack said:


> For those who were interested. This dog was rated with a normal hip grade (fair) from OFA.
> https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=2031333
> Had Dr. Keller (the chief of veterinary services) at OFA recognized any arthritic changes, the rating would not have been a normal rating. While only one veterinarian, it is a rating given by an expert whose every day job is to evaluate all preliminary submissions as he has done for years. Whether the OP determines this result is valuable to them or not, I wanted to share for those that have wanted to see the OFA result since the previously closed thread.


Meant to answer this earlier...It is indeed puzzling that five radiologists all said there was arthritis, including from Newport Vet xrays. I privately shared all of the radiologist reports with another prominent member on this forum. She is probably reading this and if she wants to share all of it, I would encourage her to do so. I just don’t have the energy to do it. 

It is indeed completely baffling to me that five different radiologist reports got it so wrong as the PennHip also found no arthritic changes. I was going on what the radiologists were reporting, in writing.

As I said, it’s been a journey...and for now, we are leaving Hammy alone, including putting off stem cell harvest as he has been through enough for the time being.

I wouldn’t change reporting anyone that isn’t a vet diagnosing/giving prognosis. I’m exiting this community because it’s just not what it used to be. Just my opinion. I was attacked for calling myself a furr parent in a prior thread, and that is when I realized it was time to cut bait. 

Continue to monitor Hammy’s OFA because we are very curious about the outcome of the findings of the other two sets of xrays that were officially submitted. 

At the conclusion of all of Hammy’s OFA results in (prelim), I do plan on talking Dr. Keller to gain further insight. Knowledge is power, I don’t even pretend to have all the answers, but I do seek to learn as much as I can....that comes from vets, clinical studies, and in the past, this forum. 

I will ask Dr. Keller the following questions:
Wouldn’t it give the vets looking at rads to have ALL the images, just not the best one chosen, as that may not give accurate assessment about what is going on?
Why aren’t ALL results made public on the dogs tested for OFA?
What percentage of OFA results are made public on dogs that are fair and below?

I wouldn’t want a cardiologist to only have one image from a 2d echocardiogram that the echo tech chooses, I want everything submitted for review, why would we settle for less for our dogs, my furr kids.


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Fair is a passing grade so 100% of those are made public.


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## Goldieluvr1 (May 2, 2014)

Vhuynh2 said:


> Fair is a passing grade so 100% of those are made public.


Why in the world aren’t ALL results made public? Its a total disservice to the breed. Releasing only results that pass doesn’t give complete information. Wouldn’t you want to know if a litter of puppies out of 12 had four borderlines? 

It’s only done to protect the breeders breeding program...there is no other explanation.


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## Goldieluvr1 (May 2, 2014)

I would like this thread to be closed. Thank you.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Congratulations Hammy on receiving a passing Prelim from OFA. Dogs whose hip conformation falls within the normal range receive a passing score. (Excellent, good or fair.) He PASSED!


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Goldieluvr1 said:


> I would like this thread to be closed. Thank you.


Of course you do. I have to say that your closing of threads that people have invested in emotionally for YOUR DOG (not your child, of course, the whole Furr thing is annoying to anyone who is a dog person so whoever got on your calling yourself furr parent echoed what I'd thought every time I saw it) is just childish. 
There is learning in healthy discourse. Which doesn't happen when someone has the desire to say their dog is dysplastic yet no one else sees it (no one that looks at thousands of rads, that is) and then closes threads when they are not supported in their need to be right. 
I think you are fortunate that he got a fair with those AWFUL rads. And yes, I am sure the vet is fine, but the rads were not positioned correctly so they were awful. Why hurt yourself w OFA because your practitioner is unskilled at positioning?
Your dog got the rating that most of us who spoke a call on it would have guessed he'd have gotten. there are no signs of arthritis in those rads. I'm sorry you think 'this is not the same place' with your 150 posts, it absolutely IS a place of learning. Those of us with thousands of posts disagree.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Goldieluvr1 said:


> It is indeed completely baffling to me that five different radiologist reports got it so wrong as the PennHip also found no arthritic changes. I was going on what the radiologists were reporting, in writing.


JMO- as always- I am friends with an awful lot of vets. I know that when a client comes in and is on a cascading path of surety something is amiss, verifying the negative does happen. It's safer to say 'X might have some arthritic changes' than 'X does not have any arthritis' in the face of the owner wanting a diagnosis.. plus, when the rads are those shown on the first set you posted, the position was not right so there were hidden areas... diagnosing off of those require a mental turning to give him a fair (which is what I said back then on that thread) and it would be hard to say positively no changes, even though personally I could see none, because I could not see a correct position. I'm pretty sure Deb Cohen also said no changes. You are totally disregarding the one person who does OFAs every single day in your panel of opinions... 

The PH- no way in all those views he has arthritis, and they didn't note it. The client's investment in disease does play into verbiage by the practitioner.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

Post or don't post, that is your choice. Assumptions?? As I said, I was asking questions to get the facts correct and wasn't assuming anything. 

JMHO but anyone can find someone to agree with them if they look long enough. It appears you are looking for problems that are not there.

If you got a fair hip rating from OFA on the poorly positioned rads, you could have received a good or excellent with the better positioned ones. Why would you submit the poorly positioned ones if you had already made the decision to have them redone?

Show or don't show.... breed or don't breed those are certainly your choices to make. I was simply saying Hammy's hips are not a reason to NOT do either. But of course full clearances after 24 months need to happen if that's the path you take.

Share info or don't share, OFA is a public database so anything submitted is posted.

You might as well get the eye (opthamologist) & heart clearance (cardiologist). Just to complete the core 4 clearances. I have some of the same dogs in my girls history, pretty sure you are going to find uveal cyst and/or cataratas. Happy hunting.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Goldieluvr1 said:


> Why in the world aren’t ALL results made public? Its a total disservice to the breed. Releasing only results that pass doesn’t give complete information. Wouldn’t you want to know if a litter of puppies out of 12 had four borderlines?
> 
> It’s only done to protect the breeders breeding program...there is no other explanation.


On this- you may or may not be aware that the GRCA was instrumental in OFA even existing. You CAN paint breeders in a negative light if you want, but it would be completely uneducated to do so. 
Those of us who are skilled at translating OFA can easily tell you who passed and who didn't, whether there are results there or not. We cannot tell you the rating but we can say with 99.9% certainty who didn't pass. The community is quite connected, we know who is producing poorly in most cases before OFA is even updated. None of us want to see more dysplasia, and flawed as you see it, OFA has reduced a huge %age since its inception of cases of HD just as it stands and will stand. It is totally acceptable and useful just like it is. 
And the reality is, most pet people such as yourself do not even check OFA..the people who come here for help in translation are the smart ones but most people care more about the end result, a pup in their arms.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

OFA doesn't have any control on who sends in rads to be posted. 

"Wouldn’t you want to know if a litter of puppies out of 12 had four borderlines?" It's not the puppies that get tested, it's the parents so not sure I understand this logic. Are you advocating that breeders get prelims on all their puppies prior to selling? You think there is a breeder conspiracy to hide information? So all those shady breeders that don't bother with testing at all.. how do they figure in to this logic?


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## Goldieluvr1 (May 2, 2014)

Do y'all read??? HAMMY GOT FAIR HIPS FROM RADS SUBMITTED BY NEWPORT VET. No, of course I'm not advocating for breeder to get prelims on puppies. The offspring that do get tested should have results made public. Hammy already has littermate also listed for several clearances. More information, the better!


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## Goldieluvr1 (May 2, 2014)

Prism Goldens said:


> Of course you do. I have to say that your closing of threads that people have invested in emotionally for YOUR DOG (not your child, of course, the whole Furr thing is annoying to anyone who is a dog person so whoever got on your calling yourself furr parent echoed what I'd thought every time I saw it) is just childish.
> There is learning in healthy discourse. Which doesn't happen when someone has the desire to say their dog is dysplastic yet no one else sees it (no one that looks at thousands of rads, that is) and then closes threads when they are not supported in their need to be right.
> I think you are fortunate that he got a fair with those AWFUL rads. And yes, I am sure the vet is fine, but the rads were not positioned correctly so they were awful. Why hurt yourself w OFA because your practitioner is unskilled at positioning?
> Your dog got the rating that most of us who spoke a call on it would have guessed he'd have gotten. there are no signs of arthritis in those rads. I'm sorry you think 'this is not the same place' with your 150 posts, it absolutely IS a place of learning. Those of us with thousands of posts disagree.


PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO ACTUALLY READ WHAT I ACTUALLY POST. HAMMY GOT A FAIR FROM THE RADS THE NEWPORT BEACH VET TECH, DEBRA COHEN TOOK. ATTACHING THE OFA RESULTS AGAIN, WHICH CLEARLY SAYS NEWPORT BEACH SUBMITTED, NOT MY VET ON THIS SET. OUR VET ALSO SUBMITTED HER XRAYS AND WE DON'T HAVE THOSE RESULTS BACK YET. READ. IT WILL DO YOU GOOD. NOT FAKE NEWS, FACTS. I'M ALL ABOUT LEARNING AND HAVING DISAGREEMENTS, BUT WHEN YOU CONSTANTLY SPEW FALSE INFORMATION, A LA, "YOU ARE FORTUNATE THAT HE GOT A FAIR FROM THOSE AWFUL RADS, AND YES, I AM SURE THE VET IS FINE, BUT THE RADS WERE NOT POSITIONED CORRECTLY SO THEY WERE AWFUL." HELLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, THE RADS SUBMITTED TO OFA THAT ARE POSTED AS HIS RESULTS WERE THE RADS DONE BY VET WANNA-BE DEB COHEN. PLEASE, READ. 

AND HAMMY IS MY FURR KID, THE FACT THIS MAKES YOU UPSET SAYS SOMETHING ABOUT YOU. :x:x


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## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

Closing thread at OP's request


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