# Need some serious training tips!



## Jennifer1 (Mar 31, 2012)

First have you had him checked out to make sure he doesn't have any issues with an itchy skin condition?
Is there a way (hopefully trainers would pop in here) that you can use rolling in the grass as a reward in training. Maybe if he knows he'll get to do it he won't sneak off to do it? Maybe train him with a long line for a game of fetch or recall and his reward is rolling? You could at least pick some dry grass.
Like I said, just a thought. Hopefully some of our actual trainers see this


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## CharlieBear80 (Oct 13, 2013)

I'm not sure the fact that he'd rather roll around than play with other dogs makes this a definitive obsessive problem. My GSD has an insane ball drive and when we're playing fetch other dogs don't exist to him, but that doesn't qualify it as an obsession, it qualifies as extreme focus. 

I'm certainly no expert on Golden-specific behavior but if this falls into that category, could it be that you are trying to train out of him something that's in his DNA? Like when my husband asked me if I could train our German Shepherds not to bark at the door? Um, no, that's _what they do_ and I may as well cut to the chase and go bang my head into a brick wall repeatedly if that were my aim.


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## Cody'sMom (Nov 7, 2010)

Wow, this is a tough one because rolling is not really "bad" behavior. Cody has two types of rolls - the sniff, dip, slide on an ear and come up stinky roll and the flop life is good just needed to scratch my back roll. We try and stop the stinky rolls as much as we can.

I think rolling just must feel darn good to dogs and maybe brushing Walnut against the way his fur grows on his back a few strokes before you take him out each time would cut down on him wanted to scratch his back so much?

Walnut is a happy boy and likes showing his exuberance and zest for life. I don't know if this is something you can stop with training.
Good luck.
Connie and Cody


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

I'm going to reword what I think you want.... You are OK with the rolling, provided he pays attention and responds to commands at a distance. Correct? 

Then instead of working on STOPPING the rolling. Focus on "watch me" and increase the distance. If you work on his focus, and response time, you can achieve what YOU want and still let him enjoy the rolling. 

I can 100% understand the frustration. Bear prefers to roll around and will often do it when all I want is for him to sit still so I can untangle his leash.


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## Walnut_the_Nut (Jan 25, 2012)

Jennifer1 said:


> First have you had him checked out to make sure he doesn't have any issues with an itchy skin condition?
> Is there a way (hopefully trainers would pop in here) that you can use rolling in the grass as a reward in training. Maybe if he knows he'll get to do it he won't sneak off to do it? Maybe train him with a long line for a game of fetch or recall and his reward is rolling? You could at least pick some dry grass.
> Like I said, just a thought. Hopefully some of our actual trainers see this


Yes, he's been checked for skin issues and vet cleared him of any. She said dogs like to roll around to mask their scent, but suggested Walnut just enjoys having fun since he doesn't sniff before rolling. 

We did use the rewarding "bad behaviour" technique to teach him "focus"...worked great to take his attention off other dogs, people, etc and on to us. 

I'm just worried it will get worse. He REALLY LOVES to roll around. I mean, i've never seen a dog have so much fun rolling in grass and snow. 

We love letting him off-leash because his recall is 110%, but it's hard to if we have to bathe him after every play session. 




CharlieBear80 said:


> I'm not sure the fact that he'd rather roll around than play with other dogs makes this a definitive obsessive problem. My GSD has an insane ball drive and when we're playing fetch other dogs don't exist to him, but that doesn't qualify it as an obsession, it qualifies as extreme focus.
> 
> I'm certainly no expert on Golden-specific behavior but if this falls into that category, could it be that you are trying to train out of him something that's in his DNA? Like when my husband asked me if I could train our German Shepherds not to bark at the door? Um, no, that's _what they do_ and I may as well cut to the chase and go bang my head into a brick wall repeatedly if that were my aim.


Whether he's obsessed or extremely focused on rolling, we'd like to modify the behaviour to either reduce or eliminate it. And I know this can be done if we just find the best way to approach it. 




Cody'sMom said:


> Wow, this is a tough one because rolling is not really "bad" behavior. Cody has two types of rolls - the sniff, dip, slide on an ear and come up stinky roll and the flop life is good just needed to scratch my back roll. We try and stop the stinky rolls as much as we can.
> 
> I think rolling just must feel darn good to dogs and maybe brushing Walnut against the way his fur grows on his back a few strokes before you take him out each time would cut down on him wanted to scratch his back so much?
> 
> ...


You're absolutely right…it's not bad behaviour at all. And to be honest, when he's in a happy mood (which is always), he'll grab a stick and go on his back and have a blast. 

Walnut also has 2 types of rolls. 
1: the (no sniff), dip, slide on an ear and come up stinky roll, shake, repeat
2: grab a stick, roll on back, and paw/play with it roll, shake repeat

In both types he gets really dirty.

Nowadays, when we play fetch, sometimes he'll even stop in the middle of running after the ball to roll around for a bit. He doesn't do it on carpet either…only outside. 

We're still hoping to be able to get some advice on training this out of him. I still think it's possible, but want some more suggestions to try. We've been able to teach him A LOT of default behaviours, and also modify existing ones. He's honestly so good to us and very, very, very obedient. 

We don't want to ruin his love for rolling around, but won't be able to let him off-leash until we can control it somehow. 

This is how we plays with stuff in his mouth. He's on his back more often than he's on his legs??

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/921521_564996900199024_507508562_o.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/964729_565084516856929_715133619_o.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1268583_612829648749082_386753562_o.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd....720x720/36537_505387552826626_184588580_n.jpg





Brave said:


> I'm going to reword what I think you want.... You are OK with the rolling, provided he pays attention and responds to commands at a distance. Correct?
> 
> Then instead of working on STOPPING the rolling. Focus on "watch me" and increase the distance. If you work on his focus, and response time, you can achieve what YOU want and still let him enjoy the rolling.
> 
> I can 100% understand the frustration. Bear prefers to roll around and will often do it when all I want is for him to sit still so I can untangle his leash.


Close…
I'm NOT okay with him rolling around. I want default behaviour to be not rolling around until permission is granted (for example, if I see grass is clean, etc). 

We have no issues with commands from a distance. He will stop, come, stay, sit, lay and leave-it from a distance….he learned all this in his intermediate training classes and knows it very well. 

What I want to do is train him a default behaviour of not rolling around, so that if there are other dogs playing, or if I'm talking to someone, I don't turn out to find him covered in mud. He also does it kind of randomly. It's tough to tell when he's going to slide and roll because he doesn't sniff the area like most other dogs do - making it hard for us to prevent/reward before it happens. I mean, he'll be chasing the ball 1 second, and within a millisecond he's slide down grass/snow. 

It really is a tough one and super frustrating. Luckily he doesn't really mind being bathed, but we're so tired of this routine. We decided not to let him off-leash until we can figure out what to do. He's been clicker-trained...but I don't think the clicker will be useful in this scenario...since he won't even hear the click from a distance.


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## CharlieBear80 (Oct 13, 2013)

I'm sorry, I can see how this could be frustrating. I don't have any suggestions, but I did want to add that you've got a very handsome boy and I love his name. GL!


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

What about extending his wait/stay command? If he is responsive to commands, when you stop to talk to a neighbor, give him the stay command and when you've decided it is OK to roll around, go ahead and give the release and let him have his fun. 

To be honest, I'm a little baffled as to why the rolling is such a problem for you. Is it particularly wet and muddy where you live/take Walnut? Of all the times, Bear has rolled around the most dirty he's gotten was easily brushed out in 5 minutes. No need to bath him. And if it's just mud and not gunky, you should be able to do a quick rinse and be done with it. 

The joy of letting him have his fun (to me at least) outweighs the inconveniences it causes me. 

If all else fails, consider speaking with a certified veterinary behaviorist and see if they have a different take on dealing with this.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

You're not alone. Here's my boy going crazy on the carpet rolling around....


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

I did some googling:

How to Stop a Dog From Rolling in the Grass | Dog Care - The Daily Puppy


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## Walnut_the_Nut (Jan 25, 2012)

Brave said:


> I did some googling:
> 
> How to Stop a Dog From Rolling in the Grass | Dog Care - The Daily Puppy


That's actually one of the very first things we found google'n and tried. No luck. We're really patient and follow through with training until we know for sure it's not effective...which is why 6 months later we're still trying to control this. 

It's hard to explain...if he's already playing with another dog, or if another dog approaches him and the other human walks up to talk to me...it's already too late. 


To answer your previous post:
Im in Ontario, Canada, so we do get quite a bit of wet, cold, mud, etc. Walnut has a VERY heavy coat. When he rolls around in wet/muddy grass, it takes less than 2 minutes before he's completely covered in wet dirt and grass stains. 

It's really hard to brush him when he's wet and walking around the house covered in grass stains and mud. When we rinse him down (or what usually ends up happing if we just give him a full bath), we can just let him air dry. We did this before and the poor guy got hotspots. We caught it early...and have made sure to completely dry him. 

Like I said, his coat is really heavy. It takes 45 minutes of blow drying and about 2-3 hours of air drying to completely dry him out. 

I want him to have fun, but not if it's going to take me an 1.5hr to wash and dry him every time he's off-leash. I'd rather find a way to alter this behaviour so I don't have to always call him back, have him or leash, or end up bathing him every day.


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## Walnut_the_Nut (Jan 25, 2012)

CharlieBear80 said:


> I'm sorry, I can see how this could be frustrating. I don't have any suggestions, but I did want to add that you've got a very handsome boy and I love his name. GL!


Thank you very much. He's a really good boy, but this problem is really frustrating. 

Everyone thinks its okay and funny...and it is okay if it's done in moderation. In our case, it's just excessive.

I'm thinking of contacting our trainer to ask for some guidance at this point. In a way, Walnut has out smarted us in trying to get him to stop this behaviour. :bowl:


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## Jennifer1 (Mar 31, 2012)

Just a long shot but does he by chance wear a harness?
I ask because I tried one of those head halter collars on my lab and anytime he got on grass he would run around and rub his nose on the grass (he looked like an otter!). He does the same with a harness in but it's a full body scratch.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

Walnut_the_Nut said:


> Thank you very much. He's a really good boy, but this problem is really frustrating.
> 
> Everyone thinks its okay and funny...and it is okay if it's done in moderation. In our case, it's just excessive.
> 
> I'm thinking of contacting our trainer to ask for some guidance at this point. In a way, Walnut has out smarted us in trying to get him to stop this behaviour. :bowl:


Thank you for explaining in more detail. I appreciate that. If your trainer doesn't have any insight, I highly recommend talking to a certified veterinary behaviorist. 


I hope you get some help/answer soon.


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

I have not owned a golden yet that doesn't like to stop, drop, and roll. I never saw it as a bad behavior only a golden trait.


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## Katduf (Mar 10, 2013)

Bear is a big 'roller'. They do it because it feels good. Bear's coat is very heavy too, air drying takes hours! I find that a pin comb works beautifully. It takes me about 45 mins to pin comb him thoroughly, and it gets all of the muck out of his coat. The pin comb is my best friend!


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## Jessie'sGirl (Aug 30, 2010)

Jess is a roller. He seems to enjoy it so much that I've never thought of trying to stop it. This morning he rolled in grass that was covered in fallen leaves. He looked like he was trying to camouflage himself as a tree. Since he had already had a dip in the " muddy pond" he was a bit of a mess when I got him home. All i did was towel dry and brush him and take a damp cloth go those muddy feet. 
Sometimes you just have to sit back and laugh at their antics and enjoy the moment, like the dogs do.


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## Walnut_the_Nut (Jan 25, 2012)

Jennifer1 said:


> Just a long shot but does he by chance wear a harness?
> I ask because I tried one of those head halter collars on my lab and anytime he got on grass he would run around and rub his nose on the grass (he looked like an otter!). He does the same with a harness in but it's a full body scratch.


He does wear a body harness, but he rolls around with or without the harness just the same. He doesn't seem to care about the harness at all. To be honest, I usually take the harness and the leash off when off-leash. I do the lazy thing and just unclip the one buckle on the hardness, as it makes it easier to put it back on. 





Brave said:


> Thank you for explaining in more detail. I appreciate that. If your trainer doesn't have any insight, I highly recommend talking to a certified veterinary behaviorist.
> I hope you get some help/answer soon.


You're very welcome. It's always difficult to explain in writing what goes out in real life. 




Wyatt's mommy said:


> I have not owned a golden yet that doesn't like to stop, drop, and roll. I never saw it as a bad behavior only a golden trait.


I see other goldens/labs doing the same in nearby parks, but Walnut…he's a little extreme. He'll keep at it for a solid 4-5 minutes if I don't stop him. It's really funny and annoying at the same time, because when it's time to play and workout, he just wants to roll. It makes playing fetch/frisbee a pain for both of us. 

I'll throw the ball, he'll run halfway and take a dive on the grass/mud/snow. He'll do his thing for a few minutes, shake it off, and spend another 5-6 minutes looking for the ball (because he loses track of the ball from rolling around). 




Katduf said:


> Bear is a big 'roller'. They do it because it feels good. Bear's coat is very heavy too, air drying takes hours! I find that a pin comb works beautifully. It takes me about 45 mins to pin comb him thoroughly, and it gets all of the muck out of his coat. The pin comb is my best friend!


We've got the pin comb too, and we also find it's the best for brushing out muck. I find we're always drying him (blow dry) after rain/wet grass/snow because he makes sure to get every piece of fur on his body wet/damp. We made the mistake of letting him air dry after a roll around session in wet grass and the poor guy got hotspots. So now we make sure to blow dry, or at the very least, towel dry really well. 




Jessie'sGirl said:


> Jess is a roller. He seems to enjoy it so much that I've never thought of trying to stop it. This morning he rolled in grass that was covered in fallen leaves. He looked like he was trying to camouflage himself as a tree. Since he had already had a dip in the " muddy pond" he was a bit of a mess when I got him home. All i did was towel dry and brush him and take a damp cloth go those muddy feet.
> Sometimes you just have to sit back and laugh at their antics and enjoy the moment, like the dogs do.


I get that it's okay to do it once in a while - I don't mind that. I don't consider it bad behaviour to do it once in a while. It's just a pain to have to wash and dry him weekly (or more often). Snow is just around the corner, so we've been getting a lot of wet weather making it difficult to keep him clean. 





I've been keeping him mostly on-leash since initially posting, and he hasn't had the chance to roll around. Instead of letting him run around for 45 minutes and "playing fetch/frisbee", I've been letting off-leash for quick 2-3 intervals. He gets a chance to run a short distance before I say "LET'S GO", at which point he comes back to me and i give him some treats and leash him up and continue walking. 

I didn't want to use any of his recall cues since I need to put the leash back on, and he already knows "lets go" means to heel on the right…so it's been working well - but it's definitely not a permanent solution.

The downside is that he's getting significantly less off-leash play time. He used to get 45 min off-leash play time after work and 30-45 minute walk before bed. 
Now he's getting 10-15 minute off-leash time, and 1-1.5hr walk split in 2-3 mini walks. 


At least this gives me an opportunity to gradually take his mind off rolling around while I try out some of the suggestions posted (i.e. Cody'sMom: brushing him before taking him out), and jogging instead of walking when he's off-leash. If I get about 20-30 feet away from him, he stops doing what he's doing and runs back. I'm hoping if I can jog quick enough it won't really give him a chance to even roll around. 

Thanks for everyone's input. I'd appreciate any other ideas you may have


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## goldlover68 (Jun 17, 2013)

If he always responds to 'here' command, I would always call him here, when he starts to roll. In time he will know that every time he wants to roll, you will call him in. Therefore the behavior has been modified. Doing the same thing with a sit-stay may also be used, but much harder to control. I know you are trying to replace this behavior with something, but I think initially use what he already has been trained on. That's what I would try...good luck!


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## Walnut_the_Nut (Jan 25, 2012)

goldlover68 said:


> If he always responds to 'here' command, I would always call him here, when he starts to roll. In time he will know that every time he wants to roll, you will call him in. Therefore the behavior has been modified. Doing the same thing with a sit-stay may also be used, but much harder to control. I know you are trying to replace this behavior with something, but I think initially use what he already has been trained on. That's what I would try...good luck!


Thanks for the suggestions. That's what I'm trying to work on right now...except with the "let's go" command which he heels to. It works, but I have to catch him before if drops to the ground. If I'm 1 second too late, he doesn't hear anything until he pauses his rolling, then gets up and runs back to me. 

I truly think he doesn't see/hear anything when he's doing his crazy rolling business. We bumped into a border collie (both off-leash), and the collie went up to Walnut to sniff. Walnut drops to the ground and starts rolling around (the collie's human was laughing so hard). We said our goodbyes pretty quickly and the border collie left through the alleyway a few steps from the grassy area. 

Walnut finally stopped rolling around and when he got up and did a shake, he realized his new friend was gone :doh::doh: He spent the next few minutes literally looking for the collie. This happens often, and every single time it happens, he has this really confused and serious look on his face. The same look he gets when we play "hide and seek" and "find your toy".


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## Cowtown (Sep 23, 2009)

Here's what I'd do:

On Leash: I'd pop the leash/collar up as soon as he starts to lay down/roll around/drop his head, say no real loud and then tell him to sit. Then praise and treat for sitting good (and still).

For off leash, I'd consider what we do in the field with our Goldens...teach them to sit on a whistle. When you sense he's about to start rolling, toot the whistle (1 toot means sit) and have him sit. Then do the toot toot toot (recall whistle) to call him in. You might need to watch some videos or work with someone who can help with this but I believe the Sit Whistle would break that desire and behavior. As you are aware, you have to develop a tool to control him with at distance. Sit whistle may be your tool. You could even use it on leash too.


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## quilter (Sep 12, 2011)

I read that rolling is also a stress reduction behavior. Casper loves to roll, too, but I can definitely tell when it's a stress thing. We'll be walking around, he gets this "too tired of paying attention" look, then he heads off to some lawn to roll around. Then he gets up, shakes off, and heads on down the sidewalk with his "ok I'm ready now" look. 

The fact that Walnut does it around other dogs sort of sounds like he's a bit stressed or not quite confident about the other dog. Casper hits the ground (but does not roll over) when he meets some dogs. I have no idea what doggie signals he uses to pick and choose. One time, two snarling, yapping, unleashed dachshunds walked by him. He rolled for five minutes.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Let me guess...you own a lot of lint rollers and like to vacuum.

Goldens and dogs in general like to roll in the grass. Honestly I think you're fighting an uphill battle trying to figure out a way to train the dog not to roll. That's like trying to train a male dog not to lift their leg to pee, or a happy dog to stop wagging its tail. It's a natural, benign behavior.

You might be better off forking over a few hundred dollars and buy a high powered DOG hair dryer (i.e. Metro Air Force, Kool Dry, K9-II, etc), you can hit him with this and blow the leaves and dirt off him in a minute or two before he goes in the house. I can't imagine he is THAT dirty after just a few minutes of rolling in average weather (i.e. not raining), and you'd be amazed how much more powerful and effective a dog blow dryer is than a human hair dryer. You can blow all that debris off him in just a minute or two (and after a bath, you're looking at 30 minutes of drying to get him bone dry). 

Don't drive yourself nuts. You've already chosen to confine your dog rather than let him participate in this benign activity that he enjoys. Just go get a better dryer and let him do it.


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

What jumped out at me was that you treat BEFORE he rolls. Depending on the timing, you MIGHT be rewarding him for thinking about rolling. If he's already thinking about it...as in I'm going to roll over there...and he gets a treat, you might be inadvertently encouraging/reward the behavior.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

No suggestions.. My two 11.5 year olds are rollers.. I call Georgie "Pig Pen". He will come in with fifteen leaves hanging off of him and smeared in mud. Once the mud dries, it readily brushes out. When he was younger, he used to like to roll on kids he liked.


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## Leslie B (Mar 17, 2011)

I love to watch my old boy roll. He enjoys it so much that I would not want to stop him. I agree with Anney, get a high power dog dryer.


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## Walnut_the_Nut (Jan 25, 2012)

So... a year later and Walnut still loves to roll. :doh: 

We pretty gave up. It's a lot of work washing and drying him, so he doesn't get as much off-leash time. Instead we go for jogs or roller blade. 

To be honest though, I don't care too much about him getting dirty. What bothers us the most is that he looooooves to rub his head against grass, mud, sand and snow. Then, no matter how well we clean his ears, he gets hit with an ear infection. 

I realize dogs love rolling around, specially goldens. I don't think he's doing it to relieve stress or anything. I truly think he REALLY loves rolling around for no other reason than to have fun. But I think there should be some sort of a limit to reduce the likelihood of him getting infections. 

He's a happy dog. Too happy. Some of you may have seen this photo on his facebook page. This is a result of letting him off-leash for 10 minutes. 










We're mostly just laughing it off now, and hoping he'll eventually lose the urge to roll. :bowl:


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

That is the happiest, dirtiest, dog I've ever seen!

I love it!


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## quilter (Sep 12, 2011)

Thanks for the update. I think of you now and then when Casper is "on a roll." I say to my husband, "so there's this dog on the golden forum..."


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## Walnut_the_Nut (Jan 25, 2012)

He also (mostly) enjoys baths...so it's not like his bath means a lesson learned. 

It means a nice massage, brush and blow dry (he loves the dryers) usually followed by either a meal or treat.


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## kellyguy (Mar 5, 2014)

You should copyright that photo. It would make an excellent rock album cover for someone.


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## peacekeeper (Apr 17, 2014)

I read your story from beginning and I'm thinking his dirty could he be!?! Then I saw the pic and boy.. You are NOT kidding !! : It's awesome.. I love how happy he looks and thinking how great it is to have such an awesome mom!! 

Ditto on copyrighting it.. It's priceless!! You got me ROTFL !!:roflmao::roflmao:


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## Ksdenton (Mar 17, 2013)

Wow! Just read this and that's a dirty dog. A happy dog, but a dirty dog. 
Reading your description really sounds like he's getting an endorphin high from rolling. He's addicted. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## kellyguy (Mar 5, 2014)

I thnk the primary motivation that a dog loves to roll is scent. It is a primal urge to cover their scent with natural odors that goes back to hunting for food insticts. I always joked that my Buddy couldn't stand it when we bathed his stink off so he had to roll in the grass at the earliest opportunity to put some back. I wonder if some of the scent eliminators that bow hunters use would change the drive to re scent? Or a drop of "fresh earth" scent?


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