# 2 goldens suddenly fighting



## gracie and sophie (Apr 24, 2020)

we have a wonderful 8 year old female Golden. a month and a half ago we got , from the same breeder, a 6 month old puppy who turned 8 months a couple of days ago. the two rough house and play tug of war all the time. They fall asleep during the day right next to each other. in the month and a half that we have had the little one, they have had two fights-one because the luttle one got near the older one’s food and the second fight occurred after I washed all their toys and dumped them all together on the ground—that happened several weeks ago. i am writing because they just got into a huge fight,and there were neither toys nor food involved. i am very concerned. if i knew why the fight occurred, i might know how to prevent it in the future. the puppy is as sweet as can be, but, of course, she is a puppy. The puppy seems to be entering a new phase—getting more rambunctious. what i want to know is whether the fighting for no apparent reason is unusual or not. thank you for your input


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

OK, I hope I can give you some useful info. First, I never just put a puppy and an older dog together without a period of introduction---several sessions. It is time consuming and labor intensive but I consider it insurance. Second, older dogs may find a puppy annoying. Step in and don't let it happen if this is the case. Third, it is not a good idea leaving toys spread all over the place. This is something I am guilty of and I admit it. However, certain high value toys are removed. I also don't like to give Bully Sticks because if one chews faster than the other, there may be resource guarding over the remaining Bully Stick.
Lastly, I am mentally prepared for the time when two dogs may never get along. I have formed a plan for when that happens.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

There is always a reason.. just may not be apparent to you. 
How much training do you do with each of them? I'm guessing the two girls are going to decide between themselves which one is going to be top dog. At 8 months your pup is starting to feel like pushing for this position. The pup might also be coming in to 1st heat cycle. I've had several that had the 1st one around 9 months. Hormones could be running amuck? 

How did you view the world when you were 14  I felt like I knew everything and pretty much challenged anyone that didn't agree. I'm guessing your older girl is setting limits and the pup is not willing to leave her in charge and getting big enough to hold her position.

Right now there aren't many classes but you can do some online courses and begin some basic training (one on one) and see if this helps resolve who is leading this pack. Until then give them plenty of alone time and limit their time together.

LOL I have a friend that has a sweetheart golden but when DAD is around she gets extremely protective and growls at any dog that gets in the same room with him. I'm pretty sure she would be happy to put the intruder in their place. Just something to consider. Who knows which one is really putting of the negative vibes but it is usually not the one you think.


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## gracie and sophie (Apr 24, 2020)

thank you so much for your input. Sophie, the puppy, is our 5th Golden. we have had Goldens for 38 years. we have always taken them to puppy classes. we have been training her ourselves. She is housebroken and knows sit, stay, off, come, wait and stay. i have thought about the hormone possibility. We wanted to wait another month, as she has only been here a month and a half.


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## gracie and sophie (Apr 24, 2020)

gdgli said:


> OK, I hope I can give you some useful info. First, I never just put a puppy and an older dog together without a period of introduction---several sessions. It is time consuming and labor intensive but I consider it insurance. Second, older dogs may find a puppy annoying. Step in and don't let it happen if this is the case. Third, it is not a good idea leaving toys spread all over the place. This is something I am guilty of and I admit it. However, certain high value toys are removed. I also don't like to give Bully Sticks because if one chews faster than the other, there may be resource guarding over the remaining Bully Stick.
> Lastly, I am mentally prepared for the time when two dogs may never get along. I have formed a plan for when that happens.
> [/QUOT


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Have you reached out to the breeder for input? We have a few very experienced people here who will hopefully see this and advise. My concern is that the puppy is hitting sexual maturity and there are a lot of stories on this forum of people having huge problems with adult females fighting and fighting badly. I would separate them completely for the time being until you can get some help. The last thing you need is for one of them to seriously injure the other or get to a point where they can never be trusted again. I wish you the best solving this issue.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Here are a couple of previous threads on this subject. You might want to message the breeders who responded swampcollie, Danaruns, also Tahnee or Prism for some thoughts. Some of the older threads the members may no longer be active but it might be informative.








Bitches fighting


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www.goldenretrieverforum.com












2 Golden Females "Fighting"


I have 2 Goldens that are sisters, 8 1/2 months old. They have both been trained and just need to perfect their stays to test for their CGC. They have started barking at night and I have used a bark collar which works. This morning I went to take the collars off and the one wouldn't let me. She...




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www.goldenretrieverforum.com


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## cwag (Apr 25, 2017)

Was it a true fight, like someone got bit and bled or more of a telling off? My older Bichon would look and sound like she was going after Rukie a few times when he was a puppy. It seemed bad and I broke it up by moving in and yelling stop but no one ever had any marks or bleeding or even wet hair and I concluded she was just telling him off dramatically. It scared him (and me) but the boundaries got set and they had a great time playing together despite the big size difference. I know though that sometimes the fights are real and escalating so I hope you can find a way to get it figured out.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

I must have missed where you said the pup has only been with you a month but did see she is 8 months, right? You sound like you have plenty of experience with goldens and training. Goldens are usually pretty compatible but sometimes it can just be a bad fit between the dogs. LOL I don't like everyone I meet, do you?

I had a golden pup here (4 months when she arrived) and it was a horrible fit, great dog and started off good... My girl loved having the puppy to play with. Problem was the pup really wanted to be an only dog. The older girl (10+yrs) wouldn't get near this pup. In the yard she would stay 20 ft away and ended up putting her on anxiety medication to get them in the same room. 
My 4 yr old girl is very non confrontational she is just one of those dogs that loves everyone. As the pup grew she would physically push my 4 yr old off my lap, wouldn't let my girl on the bed anymore at night, started standing over her (on the furniture looking down) waiting for my girl to move so she could pounce on her and take her down. This is when everyone started having alone time with me and not all together. This wasn't normal golden rough housing, this was getting nasty.

At about 8 months the pup would stand very postured at doorways doing the stare down & not letting my girl into a room with me. My softy girl would just lay down and wait for me to step in.. It got to where I could no longer trust them together in the yard. My girl wanted to run and play, this pup wanted to hurt her, it was starting to get really bad. I have enough experience to know how to keep everyone safe but certainly wasn't a fit for a dog that was going to stay living her. 

Pup finished her training & home she went. Picked up another pup also 4 months old and it was love at first sight, this one was here to stay so was really relieved the fit was good. Pup is almost 2 now and a perfect companion with my girl, my cats, my great grand babies... Life is again peaceful! I have the ability & facility to manage disagreeable dogs but this is no way to live in a pet home.

Sometimes dogs just want to be the one and only, like the pup I had here. She was a wonderful dog, very sweet and cuddly & smart. At 9 months we could take her into bookstores, places like best buy, just anywhere... she was awesome! Having this pup would have been wonderful if I didn't already have dogs. If it's only been about a month and you have already had 2 fights, you might talk to the breeder and get some advice, they should be the ones that know this pup better than anyone. I'm not one for returning dogs to breeders but sometimes you need to make changes to keep everyone happy & safe. After all, your older girl was there first and the current situation isn't fair to her or you guys.


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## gracie and sophie (Apr 24, 2020)

thank you so much. We were very concerned before we got Sophie that Gracie,our 8 year old-might have a problem with a puppy, as Gracie has been our much loved Golden since our last Golden, Goldie, passed away 6 years ago. we were so surprised to find that they became friends right away. We have been saying that Gracie has discovered that she is a dog. i discovered quickly that dumping newly washed toys on the den floor is a mistake


gracie and sophie said:


> [/QUOTE


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## gracie and sophie (Apr 24, 2020)

thank you so much. we have only had 3 incidents when theywere fighting in the 7 weeks we have had Sophie. i just moved up her spay appointment to next week. I was going to wait for her 9 month birthday on June 24th, as i didn’t want to traumatize her when she had only been with us since April 10, but i have moved the appointment up in case there are hormones at play here


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

I totally get the female hormone factor but 9 months is very young. These guys need those hormones to grow properly. Besides, if she is beginning to go into heat right now getting spayed is not advised. Everything inside swells and will need to wait a few months after the 1st heat to do the surgery. Spaying before the growth plates (long bones in the legs) are fully developed the legs continue to grow and you may end up with a very leggy girl & arthritis in those joints later in life.
If you have a crate just keep them apart unless you are walking them.. walking together is a very good exercise to improve their relationship. It's sort of a game in rotation  Not the best option but the goal is to prevent the unwanted behavior. 
There is no guarantee spaying will resolve your problem but totally understand wanting to try everything you can. Who knows, once the hormones go back to normal there may not be a problem so don't rush into something.
Like I was saying earlier, my friends golden is spayed... my girl was spayed but when her people came into the picture her behavior was completely protective so this had nothing to do with hormones.


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## Ffcmm (May 4, 2016)

I agree with Cwag and am curious to know if it was a true fight or maybe just a vocal correction that sounded scary etc. i have an older golden ( 5 years, female) and a 7 month old male. when my girl lily gets annoyed at her Monty the boy, she does correct him with sharp loud barks, sometimes there is growling involved as well. 

When your girls fought, was there any blood? or puncture wounds etc? with regard to food & toys, if they have the inclination to guard those, make sure you monitor during meal times, and ensure the puppy respects the older dog's space etc, same for toys if they are playing don't leave things lying around for them to guard. if they are playing tug of war with a toy, monitor closely as well.

regarding the huge fight you mentioned, there might have been a trigger that you missed, hence it appeared sudden. I'd advise waiting until your puppy is fully grown as well, at least 2 years because it is pretty early to spay her now at only 8 months.


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## gracie and sophie (Apr 24, 2020)

cwag said:


> Was it a true fight, like someone got bit and bled or more of a telling off? My older Bichon would look and sound like she was going after Rukie a few times when he was a puppy. It seemed bad and I broke it up by moving in and yelling stop but no one ever had any marks or bleeding or even wet hair and I concluded she was just telling him off dramatically. It scared him (and me) but the boundaries got set and they had a great time playing together despite the big size difference. I know though that sometimes the fights are real and escalating so I hope you can find a way to get it figured out.


There were no marks, bleeding or wet hair. however, they were really fighting. it went on for a good couple of minutes. i yelled no and stop and they finally stopped. my husband came in and put Sophie, the puppy in her cage. She calmed down immediately. Gracie came to me


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