# Dog show horror



## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

How horrible someone could do this to innocent animals. I hope they catch the perpetrator and dispense justice.


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## elly (Nov 21, 2010)

BJoy said:


> Sad news coming from Amsterdam today. In the largest European exhibition of dogs of all breeds in Amsterdam, where about 20,000 dogs competed, numerous golden retrievers were poisoned immediately after competition. In the same box were seven golden retrievers where four dogs survived, while three other died.


I am absolutely stunned and shocked. This is horrific. I cannot find anymore to write right now, this has to sink in. Run free pups, so so sorry. Wishing those that survived a safe and full recovery.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

What show was this, please?


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Pointgold said:


> What show was this, please?


I have heard the EuroDog show this past weekend.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Sunrise said:


> I have heard the EuroDog show this past weekend.


Leeuwarden? I have friends who were entered there.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

That is horrifying. I was just at a show this weekend, and 98 percent of the people were wonderful, but it only takes one.


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## paula bedard (Feb 5, 2008)

If true, this is awful. I can't find a news article about this, just comments on blogs/forums that it happened or is rumored to have happened. It sounds like it may have been a rumor started to scare folks away from dog shows...from entering one or attending one. I hope it's just a cruel rumor.:crossfing


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I tried looking it up, by I couldnt find any news. I so hope it is just a rumor. It makes me sick to think of what the dogs and owners would go through.

This is all I could find :


> Dog’s life for prize canines
> Last weekend, police had to be called in to rescue more than 30 dogs which were found suffering from overheating in a car park, Trouw reports. No, it wasn’t down to mass forgetfulness on the part of dog owners who had left their pooches behind while taking a stroll in the park.
> 
> The animals were attending the Euro Dog Show in Leeuwarden - the Netherlands biggest dog show with some 12,000 entries. But it didn’t occur to the owners that their prize exhibits were panting all over their glossy coats in the baking sun out on the parking lot. Unfortunately four dogs succumbed to the heat and lack of water. One owner had left 14 dogs locked in a ca


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

Ljilly28 said:


> I tried looking it up, by I couldnt find any news. I so hope it is just a rumor. It makes me sick to think of what the dogs and owners would go through.
> 
> This is all I could find :


I found this

Poison horror at show

Poison horror at show

Seventeen hundred dogs from all over Europe were put at risk of poisoning last weekend, a potential disaster which has led to uproar from exhibitors, owners and handlers, who have called for an investigation into what they have branded ‘negligence’ by the Kennel Club of San Marino. In the end OUR DOGS is sorry to report that a number of dogs did actually die in the area of the showgrounds.
The San Marino International dog show is considered to be one of the most important events in this area, with exhibitors from all over Europe attracted by the beautiful medieval village. Many exhibitors combine a short break between ancient villages, restaurants, shops and a beautiful dog show, which provides ‘fast’ and prestigious titles!
On arrival at the show, professional handlers Fabrizio Manni and Francesca Pavesi from Italy, witnessed ‘strange’ posters around the showground that had been issued by the KC of San Marino: the posters read:
‘DANGER OF POISON: We invite you authoritatively in order to avoid tragic and sorrowful consequences not to free your dogs and to walk your dogs with a short leash and muzzle, and also when they have to do their necessities’ KENNEL CLUB OF SAN MARINO.’


Chaotic scenes at the San Marino show. where distraught exhibitors tried to protect
their dogs against poison in the vicinity of the showground


Fabrizio told OUR DOGS: ‘Every year I decide to leave for the show well in advance to choose the best parking for the well-being of my dogs, so I left in the early hours of Friday and by noon I was already there and very happy to be taken the best parking with shade. We installed our gazebo, tents, fences and anything else we needed and began to make the usual walks in the wood, what better place to relax our dogs?
‘Antonella, who is the owner of Taku Boutique, came immediately to warn us of the danger and said that there were lethal meat pieces scattered throughout the territory of San Marino. We immediately came back with the dogs and decided to explore the ground below, near the rings, in order to clean up the area from possible danger, but everything seemed ok and we decided to walk with our dogs only in this ‘safe’ zone. We noticed some strange fluorescent posters stuck around, asking us to be careful because there was a danger of poisoning, we were advised put muzzles on our dogs and not to leave them alone.’
‘The level of concern rose because we personally are not owners of the dogs we had with us, we were handling for other people, so we had double responsibility. I have attended this show for years, I was told to be careful in San Marino, especially in the Murata area because for months someone had allegedly been going around to put poison down to kill dogs, and in the last six months at least 300 poor dogs died, 30 in the last month!’
Attention
The level of attention had been stepped up by the Kennel Club, and knowing that there were so many dogs arriving, the expo area had been checked and declared suitable to host the event. Fabrizio and Francesca had dinner and when they came back to take the dogs for their last walk, they were alarmed to hear that a Portuguese Water Dog had been poisoned and was struggling between life and death.
Fabrizio says: ‘We then began to panic. Early on the Saturday we were already in the expo, people were still arriving and many had arrived in the night knowing the problems of parking. We had tried to warn everyone about the risks, but the dogs came from all directions, and the organisers gave all exhibitors flyers that warned of the danger.

‘Tragic news began to arrive, that some dogs had been killed while others are said to be in a very bad condition. We decided to close our dogs in the van that evening, but everywhere was total chaos! First a Dalmatian puppy of six months old was reported to have died, then a Dandie Dinmont from Germany. Other dogs had allegedly died by now including a Rhodesian and a Labrador. Panic broke out. Many people started to take their dogs and children over to nearby fountains of water to wash the feet! More tragic news was that not only was there poisoned food, but also a powerful poison-spilled liquid in industrial quantities in the grounds around the exhibition and close to the ring! Exhibitors demanded answers from the secretary in what was an understandable panic. Finally there was an official announcement to say that the expo had been suspended and rightly so, yet people coming from far away protested against the cancellation at such short notice and after having travelled so far. The Kennel Club was quick to announce that the exhibition will be re-organised over the coming months and that entries will be free.’
Fabrizio and Francesca returned to the hotel to cancel their stay, only to find some more shocking news. The hotel owner was apparently angry and showed them various articles in newspapers, blogs or local TV, which reported that the problem had existed for months!
Problem
The President of the San Marino KC is alleged to have said that he didn’t know of the problem beforehand, in fact he said he knew only after the vet had rescued a dog on the Friday night, despite the fact that it had been widely reported in the local papers.
Fabrizio told us: ‘If he did not know, why were there posters on trees from the morning of Friday? Why there were the flyers printed and delivered to the exhibitors at the entrance? A normal citizen of San Marino should have been aware of this problem, the president of a Kennel Club should certainly have been aware of the problem? If there are numerous reports of deaths from poisoning, who authorised the show? Was it so difficult to cancel the show a couple of weeks before? Or move the show location?’
The Kennel Club of San Marino issued the following statement: ‘As a follow-up to events that occurred on Saturday 28/05/11, the Kennel Club of San Marino announced that the event not undertaken has been postponed to a date to be determined, in order to protect the health of people and dogs present on the spot. It should be noted that the decision has been reached as a result of two deaths which occurred outside the dogs, exhibition area, for whom the organiser has no responsibility. The registration fees paid by exhibitors resulting catalogue for two days on Saturday 28 and Sunday 29/05/05 will be kept valid for the remainder of the event dates will be communicated later.’

Horrendous



Dog breeder Nicoletta Moro told Our Dogs: ‘Removing from mind the pain, anger and contempt for what happened Saturday in San Marino, I think: those poor dogs and cats of residents who have been poisoned before the show? No one has thought to them? If we had not had this horrendous episode of dogs poisoned by exposure, no one would care to give it to them and to their owners a name, a help, "a vendetta" peeping killer?
Other breeders have also said: ‘We want justice for our dogs. ‘A torchlight procession crossed the Republic of San Marino after repeated cases of poisoning. For years, a mysterious serial killer has haunted us in parks and streets of poisoned baits.’
On May 3, authorities had apparently declared a state of alert and began, with the help of volunteers, the operation of reclamation. But it was not enough and the latest victims came on Saturday during the cancelled show.
Giuseppe Chimienti, an exhibitor, writes: ‘Why should I still register dogs? Boycott this show. We hope that the FCI does not grant more CACIB at KCSM, but if it happens that they organize another, make a little effort. I realize that the temptation to participate in a foreign country is irresistible, but please think hard!’
Many dog people in Italy and around Europe have stepped into action as a protest against the show, and have asked that the SMKC be prevented from further awarding qualification for Crufts at this show.

Network

Due to the powers of Facebook, and within hours of the tragedy, the social networking site has played its part and hundreds of signatures and the support of angry people had signed a petition to stop the show from continuing. Several groups of exhibitors have sprung up ready to claim damages for negligence. One of the biggest lovers of dogs from Italy is the lawyer Mr. Giovanni Bonifacio, who owns Schnauzers. He has apparently made himself available free of charge to anyone who wants to take legal action against the San Marino KC.
Two of the witnesses were the owner of the Dalmatian puppy who died from the poisoning, Giorgia & Morris. Their puppy Greyty was six months of age. Giorgia told us: ‘We arrived at 1.30 am on Friday. My four Dalmatians slept because they had had a walk on the way. In the morning my husband got up and took every our dogs for a walk. Everything was ok, we talked inside the bar with a friend but my husband came back to the car to get his wallet and smelt a strange smell. He come and told me “Giorgia come back with me I think Greyty has done something in the car” but, opening the boot he started scream and to call out for the vet because Greyty was lying while the junior dog was standing. Greyty was dead.
‘Nobody from the organization came to see us, only friends on Facebook are helping me and are close to me. I found many people ready to help me! The lawyer Mr. Giovanni Bonifacio offered himself for this cause.’
Spokesman Francesco Balducci ENCI president from the Italian National Kennel Club, said: ‘The serious incident occurred in San Marino and that has marred an expected day of celebration for the entire community of dog lovers cannot but raise disturbing questions and alarming those who care about animals. The reckless act condemned by the people of San Marino and the Secretary of Tourism Fabio Berardi can find equally strong condemnation by the Board of Directors ENCI and all the Italian Kennel clubs. ‘For some time,’ concluded Francesco Balducci. ‘We are committed to a profound awareness of dogs demonstrating the importance of civil society in the dog and what happened shows how the action of the bodies of other countries including the Republic of San Marino, should be further strengthened. I hope that the intervention of the judiciary allows justice for those who committed such a serious act.’


Chaos

Our Dogs Jadranka Mijatovic and Denis Sabolic of DEYA Photography told us: ‘When Denis phoned me last Saturday morning and told me that someone had spread liquid poison on the showground in San Marino, I felt sick and relieved at the same time as luckily he didn't let the dogs out from our car. He phoned me later on and told me that finally they cancelled the show, because some dogs had already died. The next few hours can be easily described as chaos. Over 1700 dogs were entered, people were angry and frightened and asking for answers and information. They were all very emotional about their dogs there, but the major point is that people in the San Marino Kennel Club should easily have avoided all this.’
So far, it is believed that over 1,500 people have signed the on-line petition.
OUR DOGS will monitor this situation and report back next week.


and a FB friend, Natasa Davidovic, lost two Golden Retrievers, Angel and Vicky.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Retrievers of Golden Duck 

Here is the link I think to one of the dogs. 

There are a lot of sickos out there.  I think the scary thing is that my guy will lick marking spots if I'm not pulling him away in time. So if he were licking a spot out in an exercise area outside a trial site, I wouldn't think twice.


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## annef (Feb 23, 2008)

The dog show in Sam Marino was a different show where dogs were poisoned in the car park- horrendous
The show this weeked was the euroshow in Holland. Three golden retrievers have died, 4 were ill but have now recovered. There are also reports of dogs dying of heat stroke in one of the newspapers.
All the incidents are horrific and words fail me. Annef


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Those are the names I heard, so it appears to not be a cruel hoax/ Sending prayers and comforting thoughts to the dogs murdered and sickened - their owners too.


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## BJoy (Aug 22, 2011)

Wow, San Marino too 

Megora, thank you for the link. That is the one of the dogs... Poor thing


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## T-Joy (Aug 22, 2011)

Oh my God!!! Poor dogs and their moms and dads. I have no words, they simply don't come easy...
Prayers, prayers...


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## magiclover (Apr 22, 2008)

So very sad. I hope they find these horrible people and prosecute them fully. Imagine the potential danger to humans as well.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

Is competition that strong, that people competing,would do such a horrible thing?


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

magiclover said:


> So very sad. I hope they find these horrible people and prosecute them fully. Imagine the potential danger to humans as well.


If this was done by the type of people I immediately thought of, I'm sure hurting dog show people, breeders, handlers, etc would have been more than OK with them.  I hate activists.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Reading Tahnee's post I don't get any indication that it was fellow breeder/exhibitors that committed this horrific crime. It would seem to be someone living in the area - perhaps even AR extremists? Have I missed something


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

No, i thought that was what they meant, pg.


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

Megora said:


> If this was done by the type of people I immediately thought of, I'm sure hurting dog show people, breeders, handlers, etc would have been more than OK with them.  I hate activists.


I was thinking along the lines of an activist group, as well but I know nothing about European activities along those lines.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

goldensrbest said:


> No, i thought that was what they meant, pg.


 
The first post in this thread included this:
"What some breeders are willing to do just to get trophies, fame and money? Is vanity and hate between exhibitors so strong that they forgot what really a doG is all about?"

Why was that said?


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

Why would anyone, kill these dogs?


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## BJoy (Aug 22, 2011)

*The first post in this thread included this:
"What some breeders are willing to do just to get trophies, fame and money? Is vanity and hate between exhibitors so strong that they forgot what really a doG is all about?"

Why was that said?

* I am not activist, nor breeder and not even a fan of these shows, so I just asked a question. Like you can see the ? mark on the end. I guess you got offended because of that, but that is your problem. I am just horrified that someone could do this to get revenge to other human being. Again it could be a random thing. But then why would someone just walk around and poison these dogs? 
No offense to anyone, OK


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

BayBeams said:


> I was thinking along the lines of an activist group, as well but I know nothing about European activities along those lines.


 
There is plenty. And they are often violent.


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## Jige (Mar 17, 2011)

That is just horrible. Those poor dogs. I feel so bad for their owner/handlers too. I would never leave my dogs side I dont trust anyone. People are hatefull in my opinion.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

BJoy said:


> *The first post in this thread included this:*
> *"What some breeders are willing to do just to get trophies, fame and money? Is vanity and hate between exhibitors so strong that they forgot what really a doG is all about?"*
> 
> *Why was that said?*
> ...


 
Perhaps something was lost in traslation but it very much came across as having suggested that this occurred because of breeder's 
"vanity and hatred" and a desire to win trophies and money. So yes, it offended me. If that was not your intent, then thank you.

I am horrified for the dogs and their owners. This is exactly the sort of thing that some radical animal rights extremists are capable of, or, some psychotic individual. It is NOT something that the _vast_ majority breeders/exhibitors would ever do. WhoEVER it is, I pray they are caught and prosecuted to the full extent of the law.


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## BJoy (Aug 22, 2011)

Pointgold said:


> Perhaps something was lost in traslation but it very much came across as having suggested that this occurred because of breeder's
> "vanity and hatred" and a desire to win trophies and money. So yes, it offended me. If that was not your intent, then thank you.
> 
> I am horrified for the dogs and their owners. This is exactly the sort of thing that some radical animal rights extremists are capable of, or, some psychotic individual. It is NOT something that the _vast_ majority breeders/exhibitors would ever do. WhoEVER it is, I pray they are caught and prosecuted to the full extent of the law.



Well, it was not my intent to offend anyone as I already said. 
On the other side, would animal rights activists kill the animals to show the message to the people? I don't know about that... As you argue that those extreme activists are capable of such a low act, with the same argument I can simply say why not some jealous breeder... Again, I don't mean to offend anyone.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

BJoy said:


> Well, it was not my intent to offend anyone as I already said.
> On the other side, would animal rights activists kill the animals to show the message to the people? I don't know about that... As you argue that those extreme activists are capable of such a low act, with the same argument I can simply say why not some jealous breeder... Again, I don't mean to offend anyone.


 
Because it is a FACT that animal rights extremists do exactly that. I was at a show where PETA members let dogs out of their crates. They ran, and several were killed by cars in a busy road. AR extremists feel that the animals are better off dead than being "exploited" by humans.


(From August 2011 animalrights.net)

In July, Europol, the European Union’s official criminal intelligence agency, and Eurojust, an EU agency dealing with cooperation in cross-border investigations, held a joint conference at The Hague to discuss “the phenomenon of increased violence committed by some extremists in the name of animal rights.”
The two organizations issued a joint press released afterward saying,
The phenomenon of increased violence committed by some extremists in the name of animal rights is a growing cause for concern. In a major conference organised by Europol and Eurojust 58 experts from law enforcement and prosecution authorities, plus representatives from 35 private sector organisations, met last week at Europol’s new headquarters in The Hague to discuss the issues behind this new trend.While the defence of the rights of animals and their welfare is legitimate and fully supported by European Union institutions, the increase in violence by extremists remains a concern for all of the conference participants. An example is the increased use of Improvised Explosive Devices (IEDs) and Improvised Incendiary Devices (IIDs).
Violent animal rights extremists do not hesitate in sending threatening emails or making warning phone calls to their targets, often intimidating their family and committing physical assaults on their property, in so-called home visits. This has resulted in arson attacks on cars and property. Single-issue extremist groups are also actively targeting the fur and pharmaceutical industries. This has included the mass release of animals and the destruction of feeding and water installations for the animals. Another tendency is that single-issue extremist groups (including anarchist groups) are supporting each others’ causes more and more.
“We are concerned by the increasing levels of violence used by animal rights extremists and their tendency to collaborate with other extremists in society. Europol is committed to helping law enforcement authorities in the EU and partners in industry to prevent the further spread of this activity. The conference at Europol’s new headquarters was an important milestone in these efforts.” says Rob Wainwright, Director of Europol.
Together with a tactical meeting held at Eurojust in April 2011 on the same topic, the conference clearly identified the need for a wider exchange of information to provide the Member States’ authorities with a clear picture of ongoing criminal activities. There is a tendency to underestimate the importance of the phenomenon and of the links between criminal actions committed in different countries. Forensic analysis clearly demonstrates that some attacks committed in the EU have used the same modus operandi and that the devices used are similarly manufactured.
From the context of the conference, it became obvious that the violent criminal activities are often orchestrated at an international level. To this end, a need for increased law enforcement coordination at an international level was identified, as well as more awareness on a local police and judicial level.
The conference recommendations include:

Encouraging Member States’ authorities to prevent and fight all forms of violent criminal extremism and developing, at an EU level, a renewed dialogue on animal protection and animal welfare to allow all concerned parties to express their needs and concerns in a democratic way
Exploring the possibility of sharing technical data with the relevant parts of the corporate security community and their branch organisations, respecting the data protection regulations within Europol and Eurojust’s existing legal frameworks
Developing a common strategy with the corporate security community to further cooperation between EU institutions and the relevant parts of the private sector.
The above recommendations were supported by a conclusion that called for increased information exchange with Europol and Eurojust on attacks, prosecutions and convictions in animal rights extremism cases. This will lead to the identification of good practice, increased sharing of experience and ultimately a more efficient and coordinated approach in tackling the phenomenon.
Europol and Eurojust are currently supporting ongoing enquiries in a number of Member States that are linked to crimes committed in the name of animal welfare.​


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

I remember once while at a German Shepherd speciality, my friend was showing one of the top dogs in the country. She received death threats against the dog, so I stayed behind, with the dog to keep watch while she showed her other dogs. It is sick what some people will do. I hope the person(s) who did this get what they deserve.


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## BJoy (Aug 22, 2011)

Pointgold said:


> Because it is a FACT that animal rights extremists do exactly that. I was at a show where PETA members let dogs out of their crates. They ran, and several were killed by cars in a busy road. AR extremists feel that the animals are better off dead than being "exploited" by humans.
> 
> 
> (From August 2011 animalrights.net)
> ...


Yes, but they are freeing dogs from the cages and not using poison. These are the news from the same show regarding responsible breeders and exhibitors

Check this out:

* LEEUWARDEN - De politie en een dierenarts hebben afgelopen weekeinde ruim 30 honden bevrijd uit snikhete auto's die geparkeerd stonden bij de Eurodogshow in het WTC Expo in Leeuwarden, met 12.000 dieren de grootste hondenshow die ooit in Nederland is gehouden. *








Foto: ANP 
Vier honden zijn bezweken door de hitte. Dat meldde de politie maandag.
Zowel zaterdag als zondag belden meerdere bezoekers van de show met de politie omdat op het parkeerterrein in de volle zon auto's en aanhangers stonden met daarin honden. 





Agenten moesten sloten en deuren van voornamelijk buitenlandse auto's forceren om de dieren te bevrijden. Een Italiaanse bezoeker had 14 honden in zijn afgesloten auto. De man kreeg een boete van 500 euro.
Een dierenarts meldde later bij de politie dat hij 14 honden uit een Oostenrijkse auto had bevrijd. Vier waren er door de hitte en gebrek aan water zo slecht aan toe, dat ze zijn overleden.


*or from google translator from dutch to english:*


LEEUWARDEN - Police and a vet last weekend more than 30 dogs rescued from sweltering cars parked at the Eurodogshow at the WTC Expo in Leeuwarden, with 12,000 animals the biggest dog show ever held in the Netherlands.
Photo: ANP

Four dogs have died from the heat. That police said Monday.

Saturday and Sunday visitors to the show several called the police because in the parking lot in full sun were cars and trailers containing dogs.

Agents had locks and doors of cars, mainly foreign force to free the animals. An Italian visitor had 14 dogs in his closed car. The man was fined 500 euros.

A vet later told the police that 14 dogs he had liberated from an Austrian car. Four were from the heat and lack of water so badly that they are deceased.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> Yes, but they are freeing dogs from the cages and not using poison.


They are letting dogs out of their crates to run loose and "free" of their owners. And are apparently unbalanced enough in the head to think that the dogs will be better off getting killed by other released dogs, or hit by cars, or starving in the streets. 

As far as poisoning - I have a very low opinion of the sanity and humanity level of some of these activists. You might have some well-meaning though misled people who do what they do because they think it will help the animals. But you unfortunately have a lot of crazybutt people who are joining animal activist groups who hate everything about dog shows and purebred kennel clubs right down to even the purebred show dogs. 



> These are the news from the same show regarding responsible breeders and exhibitors...


I truly hope you aren't trying to say that all dog show people are that criminally negligent. Because...


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

BJoy said:


> Yes, but they are freeing dogs from the cages and not using poison. These are the news from the same show regarding responsible breeders and exhibitors
> 
> Check this out:
> 
> ...


 
I am in the US. Thankfully the few incidents where dogs were lost while in the care of handlers have been few and far between. ANY are too many. 
Are you somehow equating these with fellow exhibitors killing another's dogs?
And yes - animal rights activists HAVE poisoned dogs, I simply offered one instance where I was actually present and it happened to be letting dogs out of crates. 

There are cruel, ignorant people wherever you go. And I know there are many instances of pet owners leaving dogs in hot cars to perish, or tied while wearing choke collars and strangling - they are not always as sensationalized as when an incident happens at a show or other dog sport event.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

Okay, i really don't get this, what are these activist for, that would make it part of a plan, and okay to kill dogs?


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## BJoy (Aug 22, 2011)

Megora said:


> They are letting dogs out of their crates to run loose and "free" of their owners. And are apparently unbalanced enough in the head to think that the dogs will be better off getting killed by other released dogs, or hit by cars, or starving in the streets.
> 
> As far as poisoning - I have a very low opinion of the sanity and humanity level of some of these activists. You might have some well-meaning though misled people who do what they do because they think it will help the animals. But you unfortunately have a lot of crazybutt people who are joining animal activist groups who hate everything about dog shows and purebred kennel clubs right down to even the purebred show dogs.
> 
> ...


 It is nice to see that you guys are holding together. Please don't call people who poisoned those cute poor dogs, activists, because you don't know that. I hope we will all find out the truth in few days...

No, I don't call all dog show people criminally negligent, but I call them egoists and business people. Why would a dog care of wining the trophy and being exposed to the threats of "activists". I know for sure who cares...


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## Jige (Mar 17, 2011)

These activist have one agenda that is to stop people from owning pets. They think it is cruel to own an animal that the animal is better off dead than with someone that cares and loves that animal. I believe that these people are brainwashed into thinking this way not sure but I cant imagine too many feeling this way and by the number of activist around the world there has to be some underlying method to get people to act this way.

I guess I can see a breeder here and there taking things to extreme to win just as some parents have done whatever it takes to have their child succeed. 

Whoever is responisble for this I hope they suffer the same fate as those poor dogs.


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## BJoy (Aug 22, 2011)

Pointgold said:


> I am in the US. Thankfully the few incidents where dogs were lost while in the care of handlers have been few and far between. ANY are too many.
> Are you somehow equating these with fellow exhibitors killing another's dogs?
> And yes - animal rights activists HAVE poisoned dogs, I simply offered one instance where I was actually present and it happened to be letting dogs out of crates.
> 
> There are cruel, ignorant people wherever you go. And I know there are many instances of pet owners leaving dogs in hot cars to perish, or tied while wearing choke collars and strangling - they are not always as sensationalized as when an incident happens at a show or other dog sport event.


No, I am not equating these people with people that poisoned poor goldens, but if they are able not to care about their own dogs, how much they can care for "some stranger dogs". They would be on top of the list of my suspects.

Yes, I agree with you that there are cruel and ignorant people wherever you go.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

BJoy said:


> No, I am not equating these people with people that poisoned poor goldens, but if they are able not to care about their own dogs, how much they can care for "some stranger dogs". They would be on top of the list of my suspects.
> 
> Yes, I agree with you that there are cruel and ignorant people wherever you go.


 
I do not understand at all what you are saying here.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

BJoy said:


> It is nice to see that you guys are holding together. Please don't call people who poisoned those cute poor dogs, activists, because you don't know that. I hope we will all find out the truth in few days...


I never actually said it was PETA or some other group. I just said that was my instant thought after reading about what happened. Because they have shown a certain vendetta against dog shows and show dogs. 

I've never heard of show people deliberately doing physical harm to other dogs, maybe they have but I just haven't heard of it... that's why that was not my first assumption.

Whoever did it obviously is very sick in the brain. 



> No, I don't call all dog show people criminally negligent, but I call them egoists and business people. Why would a dog care of wining the trophy and being exposed to the threats of "activists". I know for sure who cares...


I'm not a conformation show person, but I guess I'm still an egoist... because I want ribbons and trophies with my dog and I want people to see my dog win and get high scores and I want my dog to have alphabet soup after his name.  

My dog enjoys being at shows and seeing people and dogs, being with me, and "playing" with me, but I guess he's just another sappy golden feeding his owner's egoism. Or something. 

And I enjoy being around other egoists, because together we certainly spend more time and money on our dogs than most.


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## BJoy (Aug 22, 2011)

Pointgold said:


> I do not understand at all what you are saying here.


A ok , it is not important. 
Regards!!!


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

BJoy said:


> It is nice to see that you guys are holding together. Please don't call people who poisoned those cute poor dogs, activists, because you don't know that. I hope we will all find out the truth in few days...
> 
> No, I don't call all dog show people criminally negligent, but I call them egoists and business people. Why would a dog care of wining the trophy and being exposed to the threats of "activists". I know for sure who cares...


 
My suggesting that it might have been AR activists was just that - a suggestion. And a pretty valid one, given their agenda. I've never said that it is a fact they are responsible for this horrific incident. I won't be surprised, though, if it is discovered to be the case. 

Your disdain for breeder exhibitors is ill-placed and ill-informed. It is a "business" for very few, particular those who exhibit. And those of us who do love our dogs and are proud of them. It certainly doesn't make them "egoists". And if you cared to notice, our dogs love showing and spending that time with us AND for the most part, the same is very true of pro handlers.


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## BJoy (Aug 22, 2011)

Megora said:


> I never actually said it was PETA or some other group. I just said that was my instant thought after reading about what happened. Because they have shown a certain vendetta against dog shows and show dogs.
> 
> I've never heard of show people deliberately doing physical harm to other dogs, maybe they have but I just haven't heard of it... that's why that was not my first assumption.
> 
> ...



*Whoever did it obviously is very sick in the brain. *Agree 

*And I enjoy being around other egoists, because together we certainly spend more time and money on our dogs than most.* I'm happy for you 

Cheers:wavey:


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

BJoy said:


> *And I enjoy being around other egoists, because together we certainly spend more time and money on our dogs than most.* I'm happy for you


Thanks<:

And be happy for the dogs too. As poorly as you may regard their owners, breeders, and handlers... most cases these dogs love what they do. They would not show very well in obedience or conformation if they were unhappy.


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## BJoy (Aug 22, 2011)

Megora said:


> Thanks<:
> 
> And be happy for the dogs too. As poorly as you may regard their owners, breeders, and handlers... most cases these dogs love what they do. They would not show very well in obedience or conformation if they were unhappy.


Always happy for happy dogs, because happy dogs make happier people 

Why poorly? I love people that love their dogs, but don't care about people that use dogs as a tool... So no regards for those...

And
Thank you!!!


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

BJoy said:


> Always happy for happy dogs, because happy dogs make happier people
> 
> Why poorly? I love people that love their dogs, but don't care about people that use dogs as a tool... So no regards for those...
> 
> ...


 
As a tool? Can you explain this? Would this include service dogs, guide dogs, therapy dogs, military and police dogs? Search and rescue dogs? Hunting dogs? Or, just show dogs?


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Pointgold said:


> As a tool? Can you explain this? Would this include service dogs, guide dogs, therapy dogs, military and police dogs? Search and rescue dogs? Hunting dogs? Or, just show dogs?


Laura, you forgot plain old companion dogs.

I was listening to a radio interview with a doctor who declared that the best way to lose weight is to get a dog. Because owning a dog requires that you get out and walk every day. <= And I actually know somebody who got a dog to motivate her to go hiking + feel safe while she was doing so at 6 or 7PM at night when she got home. 

That's using a dog as a tool.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

How about waiting to see what monster, did this, and spend time for now, on thinking about those poor dogs, blame later.


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## WLR (May 11, 2008)

Well I think I'll throw my railroad flare in here too......Something just seems fishy about the whole thing....I mean you Google it and it finally shows up on page 3 of the results..... Our Dogs News
and this doesn't seem to be new news...


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## KaMu (May 17, 2010)

Oh man...some nasty nasty people walking this earth.


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## BJoy (Aug 22, 2011)

Pointgold said:


> As a tool? Can you explain this? Would this include service dogs, guide dogs, therapy dogs, military and police dogs? Search and rescue dogs? Hunting dogs? Or, just show dogs?


Hahaha we are not on the same frequency... No, dogs are our partners I would say, like police k9. Those police officers always regard their dogs as partners, same as if they have person next to them.
I meant as a tools when they are used in dog fights or inbreeding in order to make more money...


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## Jige (Mar 17, 2011)

Umm where in this thread besides your last post did anyone meant dog fighting.....we are talking about show dogs. I think that people that spend TONS of money to enter these competitions to show off their dogs LOVE their dog alot. There is really no monatry gain to showing your dog...even if you consider they use the dogs as stud or for breeding an owner in no way gets back half of what they spend on their dogs.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

BJoy said:


> Hahaha we are not on the same frequency... No, dogs are our partners I would say, like police k9. Those police officers always regard their dogs as partners, same as if they have person next to them.
> I meant as a tools when they are used in dog fights or inbreading in order to make more money...


I agree about dog fighting. The "inbreading" is where you lose me.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

WLR said:


> Well I think I'll throw my railroad flare in here too......Something just seems fishy about the whole thing....I mean you Google it and it finally shows up on page 3 of the results..... Our Dogs News
> and this doesn't seem to be new news...


 
You'd think this would be a hot topic amongst my European dog show pals on FB... Not a single word.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

I can't bread my dogs, they are allergic to flour.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Pointgold said:


> You'd think this would be a hot topic amongst my European dog show pals on FB... Not a single word.


And now I'm wondering if this was misinformation or confusion... 

Eukanuba World Challenge | Facebook

If the dogs were left in the car, that was shameful neglect. But why would the owner claim her dogs were poisoned? Mondo bizarro.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Megora said:


> And now I'm wondering if this was misinformation or confusion...
> 
> Eukanuba World Challenge | Facebook


 
I just sent a message to my friend Lisa who was there all weekend (and did some BIG winning ) to see if she can shed some light.


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## BJoy (Aug 22, 2011)

Megora said:


> And now I'm wondering if this was misinformation or confusion...
> 
> Eukanuba World Challenge | Facebook
> 
> If the dogs were left in the car, that was shameful neglect. But why would the owner claim her dogs were poisoned? Mondo bizarro.


Dogs left in car is separate incident...


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## BJoy (Aug 22, 2011)

DNL2448 said:


> I can't bread my dogs, they are allergic to flour.


sorry, it is hard with 4 different languages not to make a mistake. But you have 4 dogs, so it is almost the same


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## Ninde'Gold (Oct 21, 2006)

At this point its not doing anyone any good to argue over who did it and why. 

There's no proof that anyone in specific did it. 

Let's just hope this isn't something that will happen too often, and that the dogs who passed on didn't suffer and that the dogs who survived are alright.


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## BJoy (Aug 22, 2011)

General V said:


> Umm where in this thread besides your last post did anyone meant dog fighting.....we are talking about show dogs. I think that people that spend TONS of money to enter these competitions to show off their dogs LOVE their dog alot. There is really no monatry gain to showing your dog...even if you consider they use the dogs as stud or for breeding an owner in no way gets back half of what they spend on their dogs.


Sir, I was explaining what I meant as 'tools', so I mention dog fighting. Hope it is allowed.... I agree with you, but if you don't make money it doesn't mean that is ok to make puppies irresponsibly just to sell them... Dog shows, thats not for everyone, but for people who care about their dogs


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I am stuck on the horror of starting out the day with that preshow excitement, and a few hours later, your dog is dead bc someone poisoned her. I played with all four of my dogs on the showgrounds this weekends so freely. I took Copley shopping through the vendors bc he was such a good boy and bought him a toy. We wandered all around, and Tally and I walked the whole entire show grounds after obedience. My dogs would certainly have been at risk, and it makes me sick just thinking about what that day must have been like. I do have a favorite beach that I am now afraid to walk on with dogs bc there is a mean resident who threatened to poison dogs. I wonder if it is some crackpot who lives there? I do believe too activists make sense. I just feel so terrible for the owners.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

BJoy said:


> sorry, it is hard with 4 different languages not to make a mistake. But you have 4 dogs, so it is almost the same


 
Having four dogs is almost the same as what?


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## BJoy (Aug 22, 2011)

DNL2448 said:


> Having four dogs is almost the same as what?


I guess you can only speak languages. Please, hug your 4 dogs and пољуби их много.... haha you will not understand anyway what I'm trying to say 

For all those that don't trust me, here is the link of the people that lost their dogs, so you can ask them directly by email.
Enter

Thanks
Au revoir


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## T-Joy (Aug 22, 2011)

Unfortunately we found a Serbian article about the breeder Natasa Davidovic and we found out that she wasn’t appreciated by the other breeders and that it could be the act of pure jalousie between them. She was also a judge, and some people say that she wasn't very fair and above all interested in money.It's a pity that because of her behavior poor dogs are dead. It's horrible!!
Anyway it’s horrible. '

Personally I love dogs for their endless inner beauty that I appreciate a lot every second of my life. I don' t blame the others who like to expose them if they treat them good. Personally I am against. But it's my opinion.
There are also breeders who are doing it with love and devotion, which the only aim is to produce the best breed as far as the health and the character are concerned. Unfortunately there are also the others, the mean people who are doing it for the fame and the money without paying attention about dog's feelings. I am against those ones, but I can do nothing.

It's really absolutely horrible what some people are ready to do in order to show their egoism and selfishness.

Peace to those poor babies, died for nothing, young little Angels who are continuing their flight now , in Heaven, somewhere over the Rainbow...

Love&Light


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

So... we are possibly talking a personal crime against the woman? That's quite a bit different and believable. 



> She was also a judge, and some people say that she wasn't very fair and above all interested in money.It's a pity that because of her behavior poor dogs are dead. It's horrible!!


Why should she be to blame for somebody else's crime? She didn't buy the poison for them. She didn't tell them to kill her dogs. If this were actually a poisoning, please don't make excuses for the monsters who did this. They committed the crime. They alone were responsible for their actions. There can be no excuses. 

That would be like somebody looked at how you are caring for your dog(s) and picking some fault with you and using that as an excuse for killing your dog(s). And there are enough crazybutt people out there who could imagine any number of offenses simply because of jealousy or misinterpretation.

Looking at the facebook page, I'm uncomfortable about jumping to conclusions without seeing some kind of legitimate news source that says exactly what happened. 

The breeder/owner of Blue Angel claimed on her website that her dogs were poisoned. 

On the facebook link I pasted above somebody indicated that her dogs were locked in a car and three died of heatstroke and it was being investigated by the country/state. Meaning autopsies to sort out cause of death.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Megora said:


> So... we are possibly talking a personal crime against the woman? That's quite a bit different and believable.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

Ahhhh... it is becoming much more clear... 

It looks lik someone left their dogs in a hot car. The poison story is to divert blame. 

boukje wrote:mm....good evening to you all.
I am from the Netherlands...i only speak English...or Dutch.
About the dogs that were supposedly killed by poison.
The truth.....The dogs were left behind in a car on a warm and sunny day.
The dogs were killed by heat stroke and nothing else.

Best regards...
Boukje


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## T-Joy (Aug 22, 2011)

Kate, I understand that you are angry but you are wrong as far as I am concerned. I NEVER BLAMED ANYONE. That's not in my intention at all.

You misunderstood me, that's all. i just tried to explain what I heard about this and not to judge. My God no!!!

Keep cool please.


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## BJoy (Aug 22, 2011)

Pointgold said:


> Ahhhh... it is becoming much more clear...
> 
> It looks lik someone left their dogs in a hot car. The poison story is to divert blame.
> 
> ...


Like I said, open the link Enter and enter.. You can talk directly with an owner of the dogs.
Thank you for your effort.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

So a women, that happens to be a judge, locked her dogs in a car, she killed her dogs?


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

goldensrbest said:


> So a women, that happens to be a judge, locked her dogs in a car, she killed her dogs?


 
Or her handler... I'm having a bit of a time figuring that out due to translations.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

T-Joy said:


> Kate, I understand that you are angry but you are wrong as far as I am concerned. I NEVER BLAMED ANYONE. That's not in my intention at all.
> 
> You misunderstood me, that's all. i just tried to explain what I heard about this and not to judge. My God no!!!
> 
> Keep cool please.


I'm not angry...  I was merely responding as I read.

It hardly matters since it's not a poisoning crime against the owner but apparently criminal negligence by the owner.


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## BJoy (Aug 22, 2011)

Megora said:


> I'm not angry...  I was merely responding as I read.
> 
> It hardly matters since it's not a poisoning crime against the owner but apparently criminal negligence by the owner.


 There are 2 stories here. Dogs that died in the car and dogs that are poisoned after the show...

We are just circling around, but truth is that negligence is there as well as mad man who poisoned the dogs on the loose...
I wish you all good night and lots and lots of love from your little babies...


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

BJoy said:


> There are 2 stories here. Dogs that died in the car and dogs that are poisoned after the show...
> 
> We are just circling around, but truth is that negligence is there as well as mad man who poisoned the dogs on the loose...
> I wish you all good night and lots and lots of love from your little babies...


 
I'm not sure that is the case.


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## BJoy (Aug 22, 2011)

pointgold said:


> i'm not sure that is the case.


??? Ok lady


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## KatieBlue'sMidnightSky (Feb 22, 2011)

Hi Joy's Dad~

I think PointGold wrote that because her good friend, who was at the show in question, said it was ONLY a heat tragedy story, and that the poisoning thing was just a rumor/diversion type thing.

I could be wrong though.
_________________________
I am sad to hear conformation people being criticized and accused of being selfish egotists -- as a whole. I have never shown or competed with a dog before, but I plan to with my girl Bella. I am doing this as my bonding time with her. I want to have fun and achieve with her as partners. 

Also, I wish people didn't pick on each other for misspelling and poor grammar and such, it's just not nice. It just makes me feel sad and it feels so ugly. I know tempers can flare (me included for sure!), but I hope we can all keep debates and differences on a respectful level. Saying "I disagree with you 100%" is respectful, but picking on something about someone isn't. Do you agree?



BJoy said:


> ??? Ok lady


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Until an investigation is done and necropsies performed, there is truly nothing but speculation.


Bottom line is dogs are dead, due to _someone's _negligence. The only source that I have seen that I feel is at all reliable has indicated that there was one incident. I'm sure that the truth will come out.


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## BJoy (Aug 22, 2011)

KatieBlue'sMidnightSky said:


> Hi Joy's Dad~
> 
> I think PointGold wrote that because her good friend, who was at the show in question, said it was ONLY a heat tragedy story, and that the poisoning thing was just a rumor/diversion type thing.
> 
> I could be wrong though.


 I hope she has friend that was on the show and that she is right, but: Hello I am speaking dutch and english and everything was fine... I am not convinced in that at all. Maybe the lady that doesn’t believe in this is paid by eucanuba or whatever and just doing her job... Can't explain her ignorance differently. We will find out in few days I hope...

Thanks


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

People who attended the show are stating that the Golden Duck dogs were in a van and overheated, along with several others. Aside from the fact that there are dogs that died needlessly (no matter the cause) I don't know what would be worse - if they were in fact poisoned, or a lie was made to cover up how it really happened. 
I know what that does - I remember Jag. 


The Euro Dog Show organization will be making an official statement later this week, after investigations are completed.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

BJoy said:


> I hope she has friend that was on the show and that she is right, but: Hello I am speaking dutch and english and everything was fine... I am not convinced in that at all. Maybe the lady that doesn’t believe in this is paid by eucanuba or whatever and just doing her job... Can't explain her ignorance differently. We will find out in few days I hope...
> 
> Thanks


 
Are you suggesting that _I _am paid by "ecanuba"? Explain my "ignorance", please.


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## BJoy (Aug 22, 2011)

Pointgold said:


> Are you suggesting that _I _am paid by "ecanuba"? Explain my "ignorance", please.


 
WOW, I have no need to fight or argue with you... I went out of my line talking about people that take their dogs to the show and I apologize to all good people about that...
Never wanted to do harm to anyone.
I think we should end this and wait few days to see. It doesn't matter who is right, because innocent dogs died...

Regards!


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## AlanK (Jun 28, 2008)

This is a tragedy be it malice or neglect. Lets not speculate too much until investigation is complete and most importantly not get a heated argument going. 
Thanks


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

BJoy said:


> WOW, I have no need to fight or argue with you... I went out of my line talking about people that take their dogs to the show and I apologize to all good people about that...
> Never wanted to do harm to anyone.
> I think we should end this and wait few days to see. It doesn't matter who is right, because innocent dogs died...
> 
> Regards!


 
Pardon me, but if you make an accusation or assumption, such as that my "ignorance" is perhaps because I work for "eucanuba", I'm surely within my rights to address it.


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## KatieBlue'sMidnightSky (Feb 22, 2011)

Ignorance
For other uses, see Ignorance (disambiguation).
Ignorance (or witlessness) is a state of being uninformed. (lack of knowledge)[1]. The word "ignorant" is an adjective describing a person in the state of being unaware and is often used as an insult. "Ignoramus" is commonly used in the US, the UK, and Ireland as a name of someone who is overwhelmingly ignorant.


Ignorance should be distinguished from stupidity, although both can lead to "unwise" acts. 

I hope he was using the term as described above in pink, and NOT the one in blue!


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

KatieBlue'sMidnightSky said:


> Ignorance
> For other uses, see Ignorance (disambiguation).
> Ignorance (or witlessness) is a state of being uninformed. (lack of knowledge)[1]. The word "ignorant" is an adjective describing a person in the state of being unaware and is often used as an insult. "Ignoramus" is commonly used in the US, the UK, and Ireland as a name of someone who is overwhelmingly ignorant.
> 
> ...


 

Well, since I'm as well informed about the subject as anyone else, either I'm not ignorant, or we all are.

And I think that if I worked for "eucanuba" I'd probably NOT be so vocal in my praise of ProPlan, having switched to it _from _Eukanuba.


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## BJoy (Aug 22, 2011)

KatieBlue'sMidnightSky said:


> Ignorance
> For other uses, see Ignorance (disambiguation).
> Ignorance (or witlessness) is a state of being uninformed. (lack of knowledge)[1]. The word "ignorant" is an adjective describing a person in the state of being unaware and is often used as an insult. "Ignoramus" is commonly used in the US, the UK, and Ireland as a name of someone who is overwhelmingly ignorant.
> 
> ...


Thank you Bella's mum! I'm just tired to repeat that I don't want to offend anyone...


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## KatieBlue'sMidnightSky (Feb 22, 2011)

Regarding what happened at the show -- we are all ignorant at this point, I think. : It should be interesting to hear what really happened, after the investigation! Hope we get that opportunity.

That last line is good! Or...you could just be a spy that is using ProPlan as a rouse! Ahhh! Just kidding, of course! A little humor to lighten things up!



Pointgold said:


> Well, since I'm as well informed about the subject as anyone else, either I'm not ignorant, or we all are.
> 
> And I think that if I worked for "eucanuba" I'd probably NOT be so vocal in my praise of ProPlan, having switched to it _from _Eukanuba.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

KatieBlue'sMidnightSky said:


> Regarding what happened at the show -- we are all ignorant at this point, I think. : It should be interesting to hear what really happened, after the investigation! Hope we get that opportunity.
> 
> That last line is good! Or...you could just be a spy that is using ProPlan as a rouse! Ahhh! Just kidding, of course! A little humor to lighten things up!


 
Nah. Eukanuba just pays better. They don't know I feed PP. :curtain:


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## jweisman54 (May 22, 2010)

I have just finished reading through this entire thread. I cannot believe the banter back and forth. Dogs needlessly died....period. I would not think that the OP intended his original post to become a 'tit for tat" discussion. Clearly, he was just informing the forum members as to what happened and was not looking for any type of beratement from anyone. Shame on any forum members who constantly pick apart a post word by word. This is supposed to be a fun place to come and vent and talk about our goldens and enjoy each other's posts. It is unfair that some members have been banned on this forum for saying far less than other members.


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## FinnTastic (Apr 20, 2009)

BJoy said:


> Well, it was not my intent to offend anyone as I already said.
> On the other side, would animal rights activists kill the animals to show the message to the people? I don't know about that... As you argue that those extreme activists are capable of such a low act, with the same argument I can simply say why not some jealous breeder... Again, I don't mean to offend anyone.


Yes, I believe they would . I've heard stories on TV about them. I can't give details b/c I can't remember them, but I would not put it past them to kill an animal they supposedly are fighting for just to get a point across.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

jweisman54 said:


> I have just finished reading through this entire thread. I cannot believe the banter back and forth. Dogs needlessly died....period. I would not think that the OP intended his original post to become a 'tit for tat" discussion. Clearly, he was just informing the forum members as to what happened and was not looking for any type of beratement from anyone. Shame on any forum members who constantly pick apart a post word by word. This is supposed to be a fun place to come and vent and talk about our goldens and enjoy each other's posts. It is unfair that some members have been banned on this forum for saying far less than other members.


 

Yes. Dogs died and they died needlessly no matter how you look at it but in a situation like this where very serious accusation are made, and suggestions that breeder/exhibitors would so readily do such a thing, you can bet that will not just be let alone.
This isn't a topic that one would look at for fun and enjoyment.


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## jweisman54 (May 22, 2010)

Laura, why is it that you feel as though you have the right to pick apart every post that a member makes. I NEVER made said *This isn't a topic that one would look at for fun and enjoyment. *You constantly take words and comments out of contextand twist them for your benefit just to make other members such as myself become argumentative. I am not going to play this game and get myself banned for giving my opinion. It does seem, however, that you have been given carte blanche to say whatever you want and hurt other member's feelings and rip their posts apart and scrutinize every word.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

It was the OP's accusations at the breeders and exhibitors that prompted the response. And I think it was justified for PG to defend breeders and exhibitors from those accusations. 

I do think this all sounds a little fishy though. Why would people who were AT the show be saying the dogs died in a car if they were actually poisoned? The show community is very good at getting the word out on things like that, and I would think it would be big news in show circles if someone was poisoning dogs. Holy cow, a golden goes missing on the other side of the country and I know about it in minutes via facebook. But strangely the only thing they're talking about is the dogs (owned by the same people) dying from overheating in a car. Then, in direct contrast to that story, the owners of the goldens updated their website to reflect that they had been poisoned? Like literally updated to say that was the COD the day after they died? Something just doesn't add up, JMO.


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## jweisman54 (May 22, 2010)

I am not disputing the defense of breeders or those who show their dogs.


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## AlanK (Jun 28, 2008)

I do believe this will get out of hand. Lets take a break and wait until it is known for sure what has happened. 

This is closed. Feel free to ask another Moderator to re-open. I will not.
Have a wonderful evening.


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