# AKC & CKC on Weight



## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

How tall is he? Do you have a better side stacked photo?


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## Java (Aug 9, 2010)

Not right now. I did take him to an AKC judge and she says when she looks at him she guesses he is 23 1/2" I measured him at withers and came up with 24". Like I said he is just very stocky.


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

What did the AKC judge say about his weight?

I have a male that is the same height as yours. He looks his best at 75. However the judges in Canada seemed to like him better when he was at 78. I can not imagine where I would put 14 more pounds (visualizing 3-5 pound bags of flour) on his frame without him rolling when gaiting..


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I can't answer for CKC, but in AKC the standard calls for males to be 65-75 pounds. You might get away with 80 or so in AKC, but over that, I think you are going to have a very hard time. AKC is very competitive and it is likely that the judges will be putting up dogs within the standard, or at least close.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Maybe take a stacked pic? I've seen a lot of English type goldens who do look heavier. I don't think it is healthy for them though and would aim to keep the weight lower... 

My guy is less than 24 and has a short stocky build (he's not english type though, so this point is probably moot). And I will be taking him in to get him weighed today or tomorrow simply because his bones are starting to stick out when he's stacked (the last bones of his rib cage esp). With him I want his weight to be between 76 and 80.

I assume the judges are going to go by how your dog looks (the visual weight) and how he feels (can you feel the bones without pressing)?


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## Java (Aug 9, 2010)

Hmmm...I'm not sure what to do. He gets fed a very high quality dog food, and actually a little less than what the bag suggests. He never gets scraps, goes for a daily walk, and runs around playing all day with my female. Not sure what else I should do. When in doubt I will just have to wait to see what the judges or the handler says in a month or so..


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

Some high quality foods are also very calorie dense...How many actual calories is he getting? Sometimes you have to dig around to find the info.

If he is only getting 800 calories a day and still at 92 pounds....I sure would be looking at getting a complete thyroid panel done.


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## Java (Aug 9, 2010)

OK, then my next question is... Is 800 calories the recommended daily intake for a one year old male, not being overly active??


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

Is it recommended by every vet or every dog food company I have no idea...

Personally - It would be the amount of calories I would aim for to take weight off an otherwise healthy male golden of any activity level.
A female would be less...closer to 650...

If you search the site for green bean diet you will find threads...there are plenty of dogs on here that have gone through it...

Of course increasing the amount of calorie burning exercise will only benefit too...like training for anything start off slowly and steadily increase...the last thing you want is for him to hurt himself.

The million dollar question is...what will a weight loss do to a dogs coat??


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## daisysmam (Sep 5, 2010)

Java said:


> OK, then my next question is... Is 800 calories the recommended daily intake for a one year old male, not being overly active??


 
Not necessarily. My girl gets about 1200 calories/day including any and all treats and maintains her weight at 56 lbs. It depends on the metabolism of the dog. Some dogs would gain or lose on that same number of calories. Hands on is the best approach to judging the weight. Can you feel his ribs without pressing?


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Java said:


> OK, then my next question is... Is 800 calories the recommended daily intake for a one year old male, not being overly active??


I think you go by your dog and cut back as much as you can to get that weight off...

If you are feeding a kibble with 350 calories per cup, I would not go below 2 cups a day. *I forgot, but like Carolina Casey said below, that 2 cups (700 calories) does not include the treats and bones that your dog gets in a day. A normal happy golden retriever should be getting a lot of treats with training and of course if he's chewing and eating bones then that also goes towards the daily calorie total. I probably allow my guy another 400 calories a day that way. 

If you are already doing that, then you might need to up the exercise. 

If you are already doing at least 2 miles a day (I wouldn't go crazy since your dog is only a year old), then there might be something else going on.... 

90 lbs is _a lot_ for a dog who is only a year old. Especially since he hasn't completely filled out yet.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

Jack is almost 2, very active and eats about 1000-1200 calories a day depending on how he's looking. Although it is pretty hard to keep weight on him. We feed him probably 1/2 of what the bag suggests....the suggested calories on dog food bags are ridiculous. So that may be an issue. 

Jack is 74 lbs at his last weigh in at the vet (the high end of the standard) and a moderate dog. He is a pretty substantial boy though, with a lot of bone. But as I said, he is very active and I don't think the calories that are appropriate for one dog are necessarily appropriate for the next since, like people, I imagine their metabolisms are always different. That being said, there is no circumstance where I could picture a dog within the AKC standard on height being 92 lbs and not overweight.  Especially at 1 year old. 

Does he have a waist when you view him from above? Can you easily feel his ribs?


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

goldenjackpuppy said:


> Jack is almost 2, very active and eats about 1000-1200 calories a day. We feed him probably 1/2 of what the bag suggests....the suggested calories on dog food bags are ridiculous. So that may be an issue.
> 
> We have a hard time keeping weight on Jack. Bear in mind, he is 74 lbs at his last weigh in at the vet (the high end of the standard) and a moderate dog. He is a pretty substantial boy though, with a lot of bone. *There is no circumstance where I could picture a dog within the AKC standard on height being 92 lbs and not overweight. *
> 
> Does he have a waist when you view him from above?


I totally agree with this statement. If he is only 24 inches at the withers, he has to be overweight. I can't wrap my mind around any other scenario or just being stocky. I think vets and people alike are used to seeing overweight animals and don't recognize it as well as they should. 

My 14 months boy is eating 2.5 cups of Taste of the Wild for about 850 kcals plus he gets 1 kong a day filled with some kind of canned dog food, peanut butter, etc. That's probably another 100-200 calories and I also give him treats freely. That's probably about 1100 kcals total per day or less. He is 24" at the withers, both parents being moderate dogs within the standard, and he only weights 59 lbs right now. He isn't done growing and filling out and I do keep him trim so he doesn't have any roll while gaiting. I see this being a very big issue for you with a 92 lb dog. He'll have a lot of roll while gaiting. Have someone else gait him and watch.


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

CarolinaCasey said:


> I totally agree with this statement. If he is only 24 inches at the withers, he has to be overweight. I can't wrap my mind around any other scenario or just being stocky. I think vets and people alike are used to seeing overweight animals and don't recognize it as well as they should.


i agree with this, my concern is that this dog is totally outside the standard or coarse... my goldens run about 70 for the males and 63 for bitches... full grown 

and to the last thing you mention I totally agree that many vets are so used to seeing obese dogs that they don't always recognize one that is simply overweight. When my vet tells me that my dogs are the right weight I will typically take 3 pounds off of them 

s


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I'd like to add that a surprising number of people don't know WHERE to feel the ribs. You don't feel them on their sides, dogs don't gain weight over the side ribs until they are vastly overweight. You feel them about 1 to 1-1/2 inches either side of the spine bone. If you can't feel the ribs there without pressing, your dog is overweight.
Tito, at 23-1/2 inches (with a wicket) varies between 66-69 pounds, depending on how much field work he's doing. The judges, and CCA evaluators, say he's a "moderate dog" with "good substance" and "excellent bone". 




daisysmam said:


> Not necessarily. My girl gets about 1200 calories/day including any and all treats and maintains her weight at 56 lbs. It depends on the metabolism of the dog. Some dogs would gain or lose on that same number of calories. Hands on is the best approach to judging the weight. Can you feel his ribs without pressing?


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

hotel4dogs said:


> I'd like to add that a surprising number of people don't know WHERE to feel the ribs. You don't feel them on their sides, dogs don't gain weight over the side ribs until they are vastly overweight. You feel them about 1 to 1-1/2 inches either side of the spine bone. If you can't feel the ribs there without pressing, your dog is overweight.


^ I didn't know this either before joining GRF. Even at our vet if they are checking the dog's weight, they are doing the hands on the sides first. 

Running my hand over my guy's back, I can feel his spine and his ribs. But it's his sides where you can feel his bones sticking out more than I like. :doh:


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

Without touching the dog, a lot of what we are saying is speculation based on what you've written. I just wanted to add that no one is saying that your dog can't be shown or isn't worthy of being shown. He very well may be able to get a Can and Am. CH. We're just concerned that you may be wasting your money on entry fees and handling fees if you don't take some weight off first. Also, if he truly is 100% lean and at perfect weight at 92 lbs, that he shouldn't be bred (or shown) because he's out of standard and would just continue to pass off offspring that are out of standard. Hope you understand where we're coming from!


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## Java (Aug 9, 2010)

Ok, thanks guys. I can't feel his ribs without pushing so I think he can stand to lose a few pounds. He's out swimming in my moms pond right now, and think I will bring him over her house more often to burn some more calories. I will also cut back on the amount of food he is getting at night. His favorite thing for him to chew on is a pig hoof. If I can get him down to 82 lbs in 2 months then we will be back in business for the shows


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## gabbys mom (Apr 23, 2008)

goldenjackpuppy said:


> Jack is almost 2, very active and eats about 1000-1200 calories a day depending on how he's looking. Although it is pretty hard to keep weight on him. We feed him probably 1/2 of what the bag suggests....the suggested calories on dog food bags are ridiculous. So that may be an issue.
> 
> Jack is 74 lbs at his last weigh in at the vet (the high end of the standard) and a moderate dog. He is a pretty substantial boy though, with a lot of bone. But as I said, he is very active and I don't think the calories that are appropriate for one dog are necessarily appropriate for the next since, like people, I imagine their metabolisms are always different. That being said, there is no circumstance where I could picture a dog within the AKC standard on height being 92 lbs and not overweight.  Especially at 1 year old.
> 
> Does he have a waist when you view him from above? Can you easily feel his ribs?


Same with Oz! Solid, stocky boy and looks his best between 73-76. I would guess the same as Barb- you're going to have issues in the AKC if he's 90 lbs. 

Be aware judges can and do distinguish between muscle and fat. They like a nicely muscled dog, NOT a fat one. Does he have a waist? Can you feel his ribs? Does he roll when he trots?


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Having met the stunning Oz, who is pretty much the same size as Tito, I totally agree. I would have guessed Oz to be about 70-75 pounds, and he's just perfect at that weight.




gabbys mom said:


> Same with Oz! Solid, stocky boy and looks his best between 73-76. I would guess the same as Barb- you're going to have issues in the AKC if he's 90 lbs.
> 
> Be aware judges can and do distinguish between muscle and fat. They like a nicely muscled dog, NOT a fat one. Does he have a waist? Can you feel his ribs? Does he roll when he trots?


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

None of my six are fat and all eat one cup of Wellness Chix twice daily. They range in weight from 58-70 lbs.


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## jmc (Sep 16, 2009)

From the breed standard:
Primarily a hunting dog, he should be shown in hard working condition. For a real life example, have a look at photos of Tito - love that boy!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

<blushing> thanks!


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

My Winter who has English breeding behind him is 23 1/2, and weighs in between 75 and 80 lbs depending on whether it is hunting season or not. At this weight he is hard muscled, lean, and at 7.5 years old still sails when he moves out. 
I would agree that 92lbs is a lot for a dog the same height as him. You will not only need to cut back on his food,but do some serious conditioning work to get him in shape for the ring--a lumbering rolling dog is not going to win in Canada either. If you do not put the work in, your handler is just going to have to do it before he can be shown so you may as well put the work in yourself rather than paying someone else to do it. Do not rely on the swimming to be his primary exercise--it can have an impact on their movement if not balanced with roadwork moving at a trot.


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## JDandBigAm (Aug 25, 2008)

Also, you mentioned a handler who is going to show your dog? I had a pro handler who has his own Goldens have a look at my dog. After a thorough going over the handler was honest enough to tell me Jonah just wouldn't make it in the breed ring although he is very nice looking. The breed ring is so competitive out there that if there is a glaring and sometimes not so glaring flaw that it can be a waste of your hard earned money. Thank goodness I got my dog for other dog show venues. Many of these breed ring CHs are in hard working condition and have a regular exercise program to keep them in tip top shape. Have a handler or more than one handler go over your dog and ask for their honest opinion.


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

Do you have a mentor who can help you with showing? It seems you have been posting a lot of threads that could be answered by someone who can see your dog in person. It is great that you are seeking advice, don't get me wrong, but internet help is very limited. I would suggest you attend some shows and talk with different breeders and find someone who is willing to assist you. Perhaps join the local breed club and get some advice. You are doing the right thing by asking but we can only go so far in assisting you.
As a comparison, I have a two year old male who weighs 68 pounds. He stands at just under 23 inches. He is at perfect weight for his size. I don't show in breed but I have been to dozens of shows and he was shown in AKC before he came to my home, where he will be shown in obedience.
Best of luck!


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## golden_eclipse (Apr 1, 2011)

From my own showing experience, My boy is very very in shape, he is three and a half and is exercised a lot. He weighs at between 73-76lbs (at 73 I think he is a bit too thin, too much rib that is almost visible). We actually feed him what the bag says a 100lb dog should eat, which is Iams, and I have no idea how many calories that is. But I think the amount of food really varies with how active the dog is, with 2+ hours of intense work (built up to that over time) and an intact male they are going to burn some calories. 
But the only male to ever beat us in a show, was much larger, (the owner's website sights him at 84lbs and 24.5in) this was in canada. But I was pretty surprised that such a large dog was put up. (to clarify, we have only gone to two weekends with him, he got his CH in the first weekend). 
But it is not uncommon to find 80+lb dogs in the show. Honestly I think it should be uncommon. Because at 85lbs, that is not a moderate dog anymore.


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## Gwen (Aug 9, 2007)

As a Canadian who has her golden boys shown in the conformation ring, I can say that "most" judges do not like rolly polly dogs at any time. Now, saying that, I'm sure that a judge looks differently at a 6 month old puppy. 

Remember that many of the judges in our CKC rings are USA judges as well as international judges from Mexico, Uraguay, Sweden, Argentina, etc, etc and they judge both CKC & AKC shows. 

When my Razz was shown to a USA judge @ the Canadian Golden Retriever Specialty as a 7 month old puppy he won BPISS. One Day 2, he was awarded BPISS & RWD by another American judge. That judge commented that she would have awarded Razz WD if he hadn't been so roly poly - hey, he's 7 mos old :. That judge is a breeder of goldens and she prefers more lean dogs and that's her choice (& it's commonly known around the show people)! 

What I'm trying to say is that it's not necessarily CKC or AKC rings but the judge that's looking at the dogs! 

That's why you'll quite often see a dog attend a weekend show & they're not entered in one of the shows - it's known that the judge doesn't like "that type/style of goldens" so why enter. I've even made that same type decision when deciding which show to enter and decided not to enter because the judge doesn't like that "style". When I show up at a show & all the goldens entered are of the English type, I know that I missed something:doh::doh:.


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## hvgoldens4 (Nov 25, 2009)

I don't think you can go what is printed on the dog food bags as to how much to feed. It is best to check the dogs ribs.

Yes, the standard does have weights on it but dogs at the top of the standard will be above those limits. One example would be our dog, Rocky(CH Harborview Just U Wait OS BISS BOSS) He is now 12 years old but is almost 24.5 in tall. In his prime, he weighed about 87lbs and now weighs 84 lbs. So, there are times that a dog will be over those weight standards-especially if it is a larger, heavily boned dog.


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