# Are these red flags? How is this breeder??



## LoriLovesGoldens (Apr 27, 2010)

Hi Everyone:wavey:
I am new here ... I just have to say this place is such a wealth of info & I respect your opinions!!! We recently lost our Golden of 9yrs & we are in search of a new dog. I have done alot of research on different breeders. I had found the perfect breeder in CT (Abalee) but the breeding was unsuccessful. So now I am back to square one. 

I found this breeder but can't find full K9data or OFA. Is this a red flag?? I am not sure - do ALL dogs get put into this?? Or is it an end user who enters it?? Also some dogs in line are from Sweden & I don't understand their classification system.

I think the breeder offered to meet me 1/2 way from NY. Is that a red flag too??

Here is the breeders info... can you please tell me what you think??

http://www.sfgoldens.com/

and also this (I originally found the breeder here):

http://www.puppyfind.com/view_listi...nd&back=%2Fbreed%2F%3Fbreed_id%3D57%26back%3D

Thanks in advance
Lori


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## CrystalG (Aug 12, 2009)

I'm no expert in this, but after our experience with Max I definately would not get another golden from a breeder who didn't have OFA certification and who wasn't on K9data. It's best to know that you are getting a pup from a responisble breeder who is breeding dogs from a good lineage.

I would also not want them to meet me 1/2 way. I would want to see where the dogs were coming from, what their living arrangements were, how they were being cared for, etc.

I'm sure you will get lots of responses from more educated and experienced members on here. I just know in my experience I would be looking for another breeder. Good luck to you in your search for a new furry friend


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

I'll let others detail all the red flags, but the big one for me is that the dogs don't have complete clearances listed on offa.org. For example, I found a "good" hip cert on "Shakespeare of the Morning Valley" (Blizzard) and nothing else.

There are a number of other things on the site that make me concerned, but the lack of full clearances on breeding dogs is a dealbreaker.


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

Hi Lori, Welcome to GRF. I'm sorry for the loss of your friend.

You've come to the right place.

Here's some info to start:

The Golden Retriever Club of America has a code of ethics that a responsible breeder should adhere to. This includes clearances for the Hip/Elbow from OFA (www.offa.org), a heart clearance from a veterinary cardiologist renewed yearly, and an eye clearance (CERF) done yearly. This is a minimum. The clearances can't be done before age two.

Next, you want the dogs to be involved in a dog 'sport' such as conformation (dog shows), agility, obedience, or rally. What makes the dog special and worth breeding? It should be successful in one of these venues. 

The Sherwood Forest website sets up some red flags for me. First, they do not compete with their dogs in any venue. Second, the advertised on puppyfind.com. Reputable breeders usually have all of their puppies sold before they're even born. The fact that they still have 9-10 week old puppies left isn't always a bad sign, but important to consider. Next, they don't list all of the dogs' pedigrees or their registered names. That is why we're having a hard time finding them on k9data or OFA. 

It made me laugh that on the puppyfind.com, they wrote this:


> Mandy's GrandMother "
> Molly" had 6 "OFA"s on her Pedigree with several
> Champions.


It sounds like they don't have any IDEA what OFA is. It isn't something "in" the pedigree but a health clearance verifying that hips or elbows are clear of dysplasia. Simply having the OFA clearance done doesn't mean that they passed...

I would honestly steer clear. 

What are you looking for in a dog? A family pet? Competitor for agility or obedience?
The Sherwood Forest Goldens seem to have the "English Cream" coloring. Is that something you are interested in?
We can point you to many, many respectable breeders in the area. 

I'll be back with some links.

Good Luck.

Melissa:wavey:


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

I found the puppies that are on the grounds parents in OFA. Only tested for hips. You want more testing done than that. Hips are important but you want elbows, eyes, heart, etc. The hips on the parents on the pups on the ground are not bad, but without more information "I" personally would not take the risk. 

K9 data is a user database. A LOT of golden breeders and owners use it but it is not got all in there. OFA will have all dogs who have submitted their results. I use both and check both carefully. I love K9 data and wish more breeds had a similar database. I just went through a Lab search and it was very hard. My golden search is going better as a result. 

If this breeder can provide you proof other tests have been done, and maybe not submitted, you want to see WRITTEN PROOF, that would be fine. 

Ann


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## inge (Sep 20, 2009)

Are you 'set' on "British Cream" ? I know that my breeder has a litter coming up, she is in CT, and a very good breeder, who does all the clearances...


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## nixietink (Apr 3, 2008)

Hi Lori

I honestly didn't even look up the dogs in K9data or OFA...but I would probably pass on both of those. But I can tell you that the user does not input into OFA. That is something that is done automatically after the clearance has been processed. K9 data is inputted by the user. But pretty much all reputable breeders use K9 data. Did you ask the breeder about clearances? What did she say?

Did the breeder offer her to let you come to her house to pick up the puppy? I would definitely want to see the dogs/living conditions myself.

Firstly, I'm pretty sure no reputable breeder will advertise on puppyfind. Usually, they have a high reputation and the puppies are often spoken for before they are even born. 

Second, I would like to see Sherwood Forest compete and prove their dog in some way, whether it's conformation, obedience, whatever. They also advertise their dogs as "British Creme". Though they did not advertise them as rare (thank goodness), british creme is often only used as a marketing ploy. There is nothing different about them...goldens are goldens.They also say their dogs have multiple champions in their pedigrees. However, only Blizzard has any champions in his. 

I'm glad to see they only have a few dogs, but IMO you can do so, so, so much better.


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

Here are some links to reputable breeders in the area. Where are you exactly? These are mostly near the New England area. I think Cloverdale is in CT.

Sunkissed Goldens http://www.sunkissedgoldens.com/
Kelore http://www.littlecountrygoldens.com/
Yukon http://yukongoldens.com/
Nautilus http://www.nautilusgoldens.com/
Brookshire http://brookshiregoldens.com/
Beechwood http://www.beechwoodgoldens.com/
Twin-Beau-D http://www.twinbeaudgoldens.com/
Cloverdale http://www.simplesite.com/cloverdale/591781


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## nixietink (Apr 3, 2008)

Also, where are you located? Maybe some people can suggest some breeders for you!

Just steer clear of any puppy advertising websites.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Contact Broadway Goldens in CT. Kathy is one of the puppy referral people in the state and she can provide you with a list of good breeders.

Inge beat me to it...

http://broadwaygoldens.com/


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## inge (Sep 20, 2009)

Kimm said:


> Contact Broadway Goldens in CT. Kathy is one of the puppy referral people in the state and she can provide you with a list of good breeders.
> 
> Inge beat me to it...
> 
> http://broadwaygoldens.com/


If everything goes well, they have a litter upcoming with Fergie.


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## lovealways_jami (Apr 17, 2007)

"We only breed dogs with excellent hips and they must be free from any heart or eye defects." Hmmmm? If they didnt do the certifications, then is this a false statement? So confused.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

lovealways_jami said:


> "We only breed dogs with excellent hips and they must be free from any heart or eye defects." Hmmmm? If they didnt do the certifications, then is this a false statement? So confused.


Is that from Sherwood Forest's website? Perhaps they're using the word "excellent" loosely (OFA good is a terrific rating). It's hugely misleading, of course.

And lots of breeders who don't do certifications will often say things like that when the dog shows no signs of heart or eye trouble. After all, the dog is two and has never had heart or eye trouble. Doesn't that mean he's free of defects?

Obviously I don't agree with that kind of mentality, but I imagine that's how a breeder like SF feels they can write statements like that, in total disregard for the GRCA's ethical guidelines.


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## lovealways_jami (Apr 17, 2007)

tippykayak said:


> Is that from Sherwood Forest's website? Perhaps they're using the word "excellent" loosely (OFA good is a terrific rating). It's hugely misleading, of course.
> 
> And lots of breeders who don't do certifications will often say things like that when the dog shows no signs of heart or eye trouble. After all, the dog is two and has never had heart or eye trouble. Doesn't that mean he's free of defects?
> 
> Obviously I don't agree with that kind of mentality, but I imagine that's how a breeder like SF feels they can write statements like that, in total disregard for the GRCA's ethical guidelines.


Yes, its in their "about me" section. Weird.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

I knew that didn't come from Broadway's!


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## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

No mention of elbows... at least they're not stating that because their dogs are imported from overseas they are totally clear of health issues as a ploy. I'd like to see the dogs compete as well as have all their clearances. This breeder seems to be more of a 'I have girls and a boy, produce pups, so I am a breeder!' type, not working towards improving the breed etc...

I would look elsewhere, find a breeder you like and wait. Not easy, but still. What about the litter that didn't take, did the breeder suggest anyone to you? That would be where I'd start, as well as any clubs in your area.

Lana


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## LoriLovesGoldens (Apr 27, 2010)

Thank you Everyone!!!!! I thought it seemed kinda fishy ... I needed your expert input!!! Thankyou!!! I am in CT but willing to travel. I have spent at least 10 hrs in the last 2 days trying to figure out who I had emailed last mo before our breeder fell through. & then figuring out who had what when. I really don't want to wait until the summer. The house is empty & I miss having a Golden  Broadway Goldens will not breed until June & then pups Aug. Cloverdale not until summer. I emailed everyone else on the list of links. I think I have about 10-15 outstanding emails. I am getting confused, sad, & frustrated 
I will keep you posted ... & will be probably back with more ques I am sure!!!! ARGHHHHHHHH


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## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

That's not that bad of a wait, really! Most breeders will take a waiting list and have names down before doing a breeding. I think for my two I waited 18 months and then 9 months for them to come home. It gives you a chance to read up, find out about puppy classes and so on before you have your pup.

Lana


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## LoriLovesGoldens (Apr 27, 2010)

YAY!!!! I can't thank you enough!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sunkissed emailed me back! She is in NH. Seems very nice & emailed me back & forth so quick!!! She happens to have 1 female. Her lines seem excellent & the dogs are beautiful... She will be ready Sat. We are going to meet Fri & if all goes well .. pickup Sunday... Funniest thing the Grandfather of the puppy is the name of the restaurant where may husband & I met!!!
Tried finding this on line but can't figure out..
What would be a good coeffiecient of inbreeding?? less than 12%???


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## LoriLovesGoldens (Apr 27, 2010)

Bender said:


> That's not that bad of a wait, really! Most breeders will take a waiting list and have names down before doing a breeding. I think for my two I waited 18 months and then 9 months for them to come home. It gives you a chance to read up, find out about puppy classes and so on before you have your pup.
> 
> Lana


That is so long!!! It must have been so hard!! Very true ... that's the problem I was having ... puppies already spoken for ... which is a good sign .. but hard when you're ready to welcome another into your heart.

I think I just happened to get very very lucky on this ....& ? just meant to be. I think she was going to keep the pup but during temperment testing she was startled & is shy.  It's ok ... all things for happen a reason... so happy!!!! she sent us a picture .. sweetest thing!!!!!!!!!


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

LoriLovesGoldens said:


> YAY!!!! I can't thank you enough!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sunkissed emailed me back! She is in NH. Seems very nice & emailed me back & forth so quick!!! She happens to have 1 female. Her lines seem excellent & the dogs are beautiful... She will be ready Sat. We are going to meet Fri & if all goes well .. pickup Sunday... Funniest thing the Grandfather of the puppy is the name of the restaurant where may husband & I met!!!
> Tried finding this on line but can't figure out..
> What would be a good coeffiecient of inbreeding?? less than 12%???


Sunkissed Goldens is a member here. Her litter is just beautiful, I'd take one in a heartbeat. COI isn't definite; many things go into a breeding, some can be high, others low. Different breeders have different preferences. I wouldn't worry about the COI, Sunkissed is very reputable. 

Enjoy your trip Friday- please let us know how it goes. How EXCITING!!


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## LoriLovesGoldens (Apr 27, 2010)

We got her & she's awesome!!! I will start another thread .. now I need help with the fancy name!!!


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