# Stubborn...pulling...driving us crazy!



## MWinkler (Jun 22, 2011)

We just adopted a 2 year old male golden retriever named Lucky. He is a complete doll in the house and everyone that meets him loves him, but he is terrible at walking or basic commands. For example, because we live in Seattle, we often have to drive him to the park. He refuses to get in the car and will just lay down and stare at you. We have found that if we ignore him he will eventually get half-way in the car, but not fully. He will not move unless you walk away from him. Then we get to the park and he pulls and pulls and pulls until your shoulder is about to come out. Today we bought a gentle leader and after watching the happy-go lucky video were hoping beyond a doubt that something nice would come from it. It doesn't work with him...he just keeps on pulling even though we know he is very uncomfortable with it. We try to praise him with treats, but before we can, he switches to bad behavior again. Also, he is not very food orientated at all so praising it with him doesn't always work and in fact he just kind of looks at your hand like, "who cares." He is really weird about it because he won't even go to get food that falls on the ground. When we are walking him he will often stop and lay down and will not get up at all. We have found that ignoring him and moving on without him will get him up, but then we are back at step one again. Please any advice would be lovely as we are about to pull our hair out. Thanks!


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

Thank you for adopting this lucky boy! 

I feel for you. Training a puppy to walk nice is hard enough, starting with a two year old is even tougher. But with age you may get more maturity and focus so that's a good thing.

We have been very successful with the advice given by RedDogs, one of the trainers on the forum. Cosmo is a highly motivated dog, but not always towards us, so he likes to pull too - all that exciting stuff out there! Off course it's worst around parks. It still takes us a few extra minutes to get to the dog park gate and I have to work very methodically. 

One tool you may want to invest in is a clicker. This will solve your timing issues. I utilize the clicker for almost all aspects of leash training. 

I will make a video to show you what I do. It may not work for you but it can't hurt.


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## GinnyinPA (Oct 31, 2010)

If you just got him, his lack of interest in food may be stress related. It took Ben a week or so before he relaxed enough to be interested in treats. 

One thing I was told when we adopted Ben is that, with a rescue, their personality will change over the first year. The dog you have at three months will be very different from the one you first brought home. As they relax, their real personalities emerge. It's a fun process. So biggest thing is give it time. 

To get him to move, you might try a happy voice "Let's go" and run slowly. Most goldens have a pretty good prey drive. He should follow after you. If he has a toy he likes, you could lure him with that. 

We used treats originally to get Ben to jump in the car. Or a bone. Now we just open the door and say UP! and in he goes. He has learned that the car means he gets to go to fun places. But it may take a few times for yours to associate the car with fun if his previous associations were more negative. 

Teaching your dog to walk nicely takes a while, especially if he isn't used to walking on a leash. We used a prong collar to teach Ben not to pull and it worked for us. That was coupled with a lot of practice too. He sitll isn't perfect, but most of the time he's a pleasure to walk. We stopped using the prong when he learned not to pull, though we've recently reinstated it since the rabbit population has exploded in our neighborhood and he can't resist chasing them. The difference was amazing.


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

Obviously this is not the first time we're doing this exercise. We are in a parking garage, a very low distraction environment so it's easy for him now. We've moved the same exercise to the side streets, busy touristy areas, swim meets, playgrounds and even just outside the dog park. The exercise essentially creates a default behaviour to follow me and watch me.

When we go for a walk and he runs ahead I call his name and when he turns to look I click and reward. Eventually I stop calling his name and reward if he catches himself and looks back. If he does pull I stop immediately and wait for him to come around in a heel. We then continue with heightened rewards for staying close. If he is not paying attention to me at all we stop to do a little of the exercise in the video to get him refocused. It does take time though to build that default behaviour, at least a couple of months. 

BTW, that's the dog that hates Cosmo, hence Cosmo is a bit nervous when he appears. You can't hear it but the dog was snarling and growling the whole time.


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## MWinkler (Jun 22, 2011)

Thank you for the awesome video! This is great information to have since both my husband and I are novices at training a retriever. Cosmo looks wonderful by the way. 

Thanks again!


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

A couple of things you're describing seem to indicate that Lucky is under a lot of stress. Im not sure he was treated at former owner's, but I'm guessing they weren't good communicators. He may have been shouted at in situations that involve food, the car, and walks. The fact that he'll move when you stop looking at him or movie away is the most telling piece of behavior.

It may help to think of Lucky as confused and anxious, rather than as stubborn. A Golden who's nervous and doesn't understand what to do will sometimes play Ghandi and just refuse to move. If he's too afraid of negative consequences, he may just shut down an stand still.

I think it's most important right now to build trust. He doesn't yet know that you're good people who don't shout or hit. He doesn't yet know that from now on, your commands are generally going to make sense and involve rewards. That probably hasn't been his experience thus far.

Keep training simple, and keep it positive. Work on things he already does well and be generous and frequent with rewarding. When he doesn't take food, is that generally in stressful situations? Or is it just never? Some dogs aren't foodies, so if he never takes treats as rewards, you should figure out something he does like. Many dogs are motivated by toys, happy voices, or a little bit of running around.

Enroll in a class together. It's fun, it's great bonding, and sometimes you'll get behaviors out of your dog that you won't get at home, which is invaluable. Plus, a good trainer may have some ideas on motivating and rewarding in creative ways.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

A few thoughts come to my mind and while I completely agree with TippyKayak's post I would like to add:

What are you using for treats? If it is dry 'stuff' can you move to meatballs, string cheese, steak, chicken, cheese on a stick etc? Vary it up - some dogs love pepperoni (I's go easy on this), cheese balls, tortellini etc

If you cannot treat for a correct/desired behavior before he stops doing that behavior, use a clicker - that will mark the desired behavior & act as a bridge for the treat - you preload the clicker by Click/Feed many many times and periodic revisit the reloading process when you begin training. 

Good luck


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## mjoy07 (Jun 17, 2011)

congrats for having the dog 

but I guess you should go to classes together. that would be big help for you and for your pup.


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## jweisman54 (May 22, 2010)

jackie_hubert said:


> YouTube - ‪Leash Clicker Training‬‏
> 
> Obviously this is not the first time we're doing this exercise. We are in a parking garage, a very low distraction environment so it's easy for him now. We've moved the same exercise to the side streets, busy touristy areas, swim meets, playgrounds and even just outside the dog park. The exercise essentially creates a default behaviour to follow me and watch me.
> 
> ...



That is a great video Jackie. That is how I have been working with Izzy but without the clicker. I think I will be taking the clicker with me from now on.


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## SouthernGold (Jun 21, 2011)

when you say--we've just adopted---I take it you've had this dog a very short time-with a rescue dog where you have very little information on the dog's background, I think the most important thing to do now, other than basic manners and house training, is to concentrate on getting to know him and letting him get to know you. 
For about 6-8 weeks, make everything fun. lots of praise for the simplest things, lots of affection, and keep everything fun and light. If he likes to retrieve---he's a retriever, isn't he--- let him retrieve in the yard, in the house, anywhere.

congradulations on your adoption, and don't give up on him yet. Goldens are very sensitive and sometimes take a long time to get over mistreatment and neglect.


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## vcm5 (Apr 20, 2011)

I know what you mean! I adopted my rescue Riley about two months ago and we definitely had issues like this. At first he refused to get in the car as well and would whine the entire time. But I just had to remind myself that to him, getting in the car was likely associated with terrible things - going to the shelter, switching homes, leaving his family, etc. Once he had relaxed and began to trust us, he figured out that getting the car meant going to the park or to obedience training or swimming and now he loves the car. Even when we are just going out for a walk around the block he tries to get in the car!

The biggest thing I would focus on if I were you is just making sure he has fun and learns to relax and trust you. Don't expect a lot right of the bat and don't get mad if he isn't doing things the way you want - he has probably never been expected to walk nicely on a leash and etc. Keep things fun. Start simple. Get some high value treats (cheese, hot dogs, or soft treats such as Zukes) and work on sit or something else that is easy. Praise him a lot when he gets it right and reinforce generously with the treats. You want him to know that doing something for you results in great things and he'll learn to really like and trust you. Try playing games like having two people on opposites sides of the room with treats take turns calling his name so he has to run back and forth to get treats - kind of like dog in the middle! 

Another thing that worked well for Riley is to keep his routine consistent every day so he knows what to expect.

I would definitely also recommend signing up for an obedience class with him, it can be great for both of you.

Overall, just keep things simple and fun. Be extra patient with your rescue - he's probably been through a lot. Give him lots of love and praise and he will learn to trust you and it will be a beautiful thing.


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

For a dog that over stimulated...the simple act of sitting in your yard working on attention work can be just as mentally exhausting as a long leash walks through the neighborhood...and until you get some attention work under your belt the walks will be testing your patience...and hurting your body...

Dogs that are really stressed will very often not eat...

I know they are just words...but honestly his behaviors are not bad...he just doesn't have a clue. It is a simple mindset change to substitute undesirable for bad ...that can really help with your patience.

IMHO, private lessons with a good teacher would be even more valuable then a group class...


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## MWinkler (Jun 22, 2011)

Thank you for all the advice. TippyKayak I think you are completely right. He is a fairly stressed dog. We know a little bit about his past, he was passed around on Craigslist for money and then ended up with an idiot who used a shock collar on him. I guess when he arrived at the foster house he was afraid of the door.  
With treats he likes them and will eat them if they are in front of him, but they do not encourage him to do anything. When we took him on a walk we were giving him treats for heeling, but he wouldn't take them.
We went and bought some meatier treats for him and I think we will probably try a clicker/classes.


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## SouthernGold (Jun 21, 2011)

*shocked golden*

I think the key just came out! If he was on the receiving end of a shock collar used by a non professional with little or no experience on Goldens, He is a disaster waiting to happen. I have trained 3 goldens who were the victims of shock collar training, who would not eat, would retrieve out of fear, if at all, and who were totally stressed.

He was totally confused by the shocks, and it appears that he is afraid of doing anything that may have been associated with the collar. I would NOT do any training of any type until he shows signs of relaxing and the strees starts to disappear. This will take a ton of patience on your part, but make everything FUN, and give him tons of praise and love---pats on the shoulder, ear scratching, lots of silly, baby talking praise, etc. for each and every action that he does.
He needs time to become a Golden again, and the only way to win his trust is to bond with him before you add to his stress by training.

I am now training 3 Goldens who were deemed "untrainable" by a pro who used the collar to the point where these highly driven Retrievers would not retrieve. All three have come out of it, and all therr have earned at least 2 new titles, and are having the time of their life doing it.

Best of luck to you and your lucky Golden!!


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## Horsegirl (Mar 27, 2012)

*Lucky was mine before you took him*

Hi, my name is Judy, i am 12 years old. 
Lucky was born on september 3rd, 2010. I got him on my birthday on november 27. He was mine until february 7th, 2012. My brother gave him away to a foster home because Lucky had an extreme ear infection. We couldn't pay for his vet bills. I know you have my dog because he is very active, disobeys, and pulls when you take him for walks. He probably has a red colar right now. I have a picture for proof. please message me on : [email protected]


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## Horsegirl (Mar 27, 2012)

(((((((((((


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## Horsegirl (Mar 27, 2012)

fffffffffff


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## Horsegirl (Mar 27, 2012)

fffffffffffffff


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## Horsegirl (Mar 27, 2012)

Im so sad i think u have my dogh


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

SouthernGold said:


> I am now training 3 Goldens who were deemed "untrainable" by a pro who used the collar to the point where these highly driven Retrievers would not retrieve. All three have come out of it, and all therr have earned at least 2 new titles, and are having the time of their life doing it.
> 
> Best of luck to you and your lucky Golden!!


I would like to point out that if this was happening this trainer was no professional and certainly someone who knows nothing about e-collars.


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## Horsegirl (Mar 27, 2012)

U have my dog


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## Horsegirl (Mar 27, 2012)

omggggggggg


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## Horsegirl (Mar 27, 2012)

sorry for spamming guys


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## Horsegirl (Mar 27, 2012)

im soooo sad and


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## Horsegirl (Mar 27, 2012)

immmmmmmmmmmm soooooooooooooooooooooosadddddddddddddddddddd


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## Horsegirl (Mar 27, 2012)

im sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo sadddddddddddddddddddd


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## Horsegirl (Mar 27, 2012)

sorry guys! i was hacked  but i really think lucky is mine..


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## Horsegirl (Mar 27, 2012)

i miss him so much and i think you have him


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## Horsegirl (Mar 27, 2012)

sorry for spamming but i really miss him  i want to private message you but it says i have to post 15 messages.


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## Horsegirl (Mar 27, 2012)

im sorry guys for spamming but i really want to private msg hinm


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

I'm sorry, but as curious as I am about this situation, I don't see how you can get this dog back by spamming a forum, and I don't see how you can possibly be sure that this is the same dog, just based on the fact that he pulls. And you're going to end up banned if all you do is spam the forum like this.

I also don't believe that, in general, you have any right to ask for a dog back once you give him to a rescue and he's placed out, particularly if you had to give him up in the first place because you weren't able to give him proper care.


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## MWinkler (Jun 22, 2011)

@HorseGirl I'm sorry that you had to give up your dog, but my dog is not the dog that you had. Lucky is a rescue dog, but he was renamed Lucky when we adopted him. He comes from a violent past and was mistreated. He doesn't fit all the descriptive things that you listed and I don't know how you can think my dog looks like yours since the only picture I have posted of him is of him upside down. I looked at the pictures you posted and my dog has a different face in my opinion and he is older than you posted. Many dogs would fit your description as well. It is not appropriate for you to post so many spamming comments on threads that I have posted. This website is for discussing GR, and although I am sad about you not having yours anymore, I would if appreciate you stop emailing me about it. Plus you live a great deal away from me so it is even more highly unlikely that my gr is the one you had to give up.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Horsegirl said:


> He was mine until february 7th, 2012.


Wait a sec. If your Lucky was born in 9/2010 and given up in 2/2012, this Lucky can't be the same dog. This thread started in 6/2011. Your Lucky was an 8-month-old puppy when MWinkler was working on pulling and training with their 2-year-old rescue dog, and _you still had your dog_.

I mean, it was already obvious that it wasn't the same dog, but when you look at the timeline, it's completely obvious that there's no possible way for it to be the same dog. Maybe you can stop e-mailing MWinkler now?


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