# Flat Coated retriever



## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

We are fostering/considering adopting a flat coated retriever. She is 4 years old, has a great recall great heel on and off leash, still working with her on sit/stay, down/stay. Unfortunately she has not had easy and loving four years. She was crated for long periods of time and when she barked because of the crate she was subjected to a bark collar which made her figure out how to howl (not really howl but a weird noise) to avoid setting off the bark collar. 
She does retrieve but she has to be reinforced to bring it to the person who threw the bumper. 
Over the weekend we noticed that she is VERY gun shy. To the point that even our Rose started to get spooked. We stopped it all together with her, took her inside and worked just with Rose while one of us was inside with the FTR. But while inside the FCR was even more scared. 

Any ideas on how to work with her? Should I just give up on the gun for now? I really do not want to affect Rose.


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## Tayla's Mom (Apr 20, 2012)

Is there anything you can use that has a similar sound, but much softer. Maybe a cap gun or I know it's stupid but the bubble wrap. Get her use to a popping sound, then maybe a cap gun sound then maybe a gun sound from far away, then closer and closer. We were at an event with Golden Retriever Rescue and there was a police demonstration. They shot off a gun for the demonstration and all the Goldens, except Tayla were either barking or trying to get away. Tayla wanted to go towards to see what the fun was.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

yeah - the disappointing thing was the fact that we did use the cap gun. After the first shot she ran towards it so we thought she was OK, second she had doubts, third she ran back to the cabin door. Once inside she hid behind the bedroom door. 
We'll go back to the cabin this weekend. I figured to take Rose all the way up in the field and work with her there while one of us stays just outside the cabin with Darcy (my daughter is across the ocean so it is only me and DH working with them). Maybe then thru the walkie talkie to communicate and come closer to the cabin with Rose. 
I am out of ideas!


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## Tayla's Mom (Apr 20, 2012)

For whatever reason some dogs are just gun shy. She may make a great dog in other events. Find something she is really good at. With Tayla it's her nose. After Sunday, it could be her swimming endurance, but I don't think there is a dog sport for that!


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## BajaOklahoma (Sep 27, 2009)

Get a tape recorder (yes, they still make them) and record the sounds of the cap gun. No other sounds on the tape, just the gun at irregular intervals.
Play it for Darcy, softly while she is inside the house. The sound goes off, she gets a treat. Gradually increase the volume, every three days or so. Once she is comfortable with the loud sound indoors, move to just outside the cabin and start over. Don't rush it, slow and steady.

A friend got his hunting Lab puppy last Fall. The breeder has a gun go off every hour, during the daylight hours. They breed a lot of Labs and start their training early. The puppies are out close to the gun at times, at other times they are further away. It teaches them to ignore the sound.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

I wonder if there is a licking endurance test! I mean can she lick! I let her lick me and see if she can stop on her own. After 3 minutes I thought she will take the skin off my leg and finally had to stop her. She is super sensitive to correction so I have to be very very careful with her. I have used different voice tones with "Knock it off" on the licking, but the moment you make eye contact she wants to stand and lick you AGAIN. 
Good part is that she has not had to use the crate at all, we put the baby gates back on and her and Rose get along wonderfully. After a week, they can even eat next to each other, have dental bones next to each other.They have two bedrooms and the hallway at their disposal when not at home. They both sleep on the bed. Darcy does not really know how to play and that frustrates Rose a bit; Darcy barked at Rose one time when Rose was too pushy but then she laid down, belly up next to Rose as if saying she was sorry she barked at her.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Yes - I do have a tape recorder and tapes. I used it with my daughter for her out loud reading/intonation and history in middle school. I could record the cap gun at the cabin and then play it at different volumes inside and outside and before each meal. 
At first I thought about shooting the cap gun inside before each meal at home, but the moment the idea came out of my mouth I realized how horrible it was. But the recording may be better for both my ears and their ears.


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## Tayla's Mom (Apr 20, 2012)

Sweet. We will be looking for a companion for Tayla in the next few months. I've never had a male dog and think that might be a good idea, but I've had two females before and they were fine with each other so I don't think it makes much difference. We just want a sweet Golden, one who has settled down a little so I'm thinking 2-3 and one that loves to cuddle as that is a requirement of my husband's.


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## ServiceDogs (Apr 2, 2013)

There is just one problem with this thread. Where are the pictures???


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

My fault entirely in regards to the picture. Here there are both of them on the dog couch at the cabin.


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## ServiceDogs (Apr 2, 2013)

They are so cute together. I can not believe your thinking of not keeping her! I've always wanted a flatcoat! They contrast is stunning!


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

Omg. She is so gorgeous!!!!!! Congrats on the fostering. I'm crossing my fingers for an adoption. You rock!!!!


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## Toriaroo (Jun 24, 2013)

I love Flat Coats. I grew up with several. My parents have one, and he is Luna's best friend. Interestingly, I have noticed that in general, they are much softer dogs to train. They are more sensitive than the Goldens are to correction. And yes, they all LOVE to LICK! My dad even asked if I had taught Luna "no lick" because we've had to with each FCR - it's in their genes I think LOL! 

I like the tape recorder idea! Let us know how that works - I'll be very curious!


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## Toriaroo (Jun 24, 2013)

Ooh missed the photo! So sweet! Love it!


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

ServiceDogs said:


> They are so cute together. I can not believe your thinking of not keeping her! I've always wanted a flatcoat! They contrast is stunning!


Yes, we are considering keeping her. I have planned for another GR puppy in a year. I guess we may have two girls to spay by that time.


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## USAFWife74 (Jan 13, 2013)

What a beauty!!!


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

I don't have a lot of experience with training gun shy dogs around guns. But I did have one gun shy rescue sled dog. We had no idea. Our golden at the time was just fine with guns, so we assumed the rescue would be also. We were out at a place called Point MacKenzie and decided to target shoot. We had our dogs in the back of our blazer with the back door open. The golden hung out and watched us, but the sled dog took off. She ran so fast and so far so quickly. It was simply amazing that we found her. But all it took was one shot and she was gone... I'd hate to see that happen to you. In our case we just decided to not do any shooting around her at all. Rescues sometimes come with a lot of baggage. We have no idea what. But I wouldn't want to take a chance on loosing her since you are in a rural area at your cabin.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Thanks Stacey, she connected with us quite quickly - the entire family and Rose. We went on a hike and she did not venture more than three feet from us. Even when she went back to the cabin door she stopped couple times to see if I am coming with her. 
I am proud of little Rose who is helping her with the separation anxiety, the sits, downs and whoas. Meanwhile Darcy is helping Rose with the walks, the "big bad" trash cans and also in training Rose to keep her whoa (stay) while working with Darcy.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

DO not comfort her when she has the negative reaction to gunfire--that will only reinforce to her that something is wrong and she will be getting rewarded for the reaction. Tough I know, but you do not want to inadvertently make it worse. Taping gun noises will only help so much as part of what scares gunshy dogs is the concussion of the shot as well as the noise. But the tape will be a good start for now. You could also shoot off the starter pistol outside while she is inside eating so that she has something high value to distract her. When she gets comfortable with that then you can gradually move her outside and have the pistol shot off at a distance. I would also see if she is interested in birds. They are higher value than bumpers and if you can get her really amped up about retrieving and then gradually add in a gunshot way off when the bird is thrown it can help to start to pair a positive association-a shackled live bird is even better.


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## murphy1 (Jun 21, 2012)

Let me start by saying I'm against hunting to begin with but a dog thats had such an awful life until now shouldn't be subjected to something that frightens her.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

murphy1 said:


> Let me start by saying I'm against hunting to begin with but a dog thats had such an awful life until now shouldn't be subjected to something that frightens her.


I think it's an admirable endeavor to help an animal overcome its fear of whatever. It's fear of large dogs. It's fear of fireworks. It's fear of gunshots. It's fear of open spaces, etc. I think it's a disservice to my animal (and this is my own opinion) to say "ok. Your scared. We're never going to experience anything ever again because your scared."

Bear gets skittish when his rope toy lands on a box, or a plastic bag, etc. I ask him to retrieve it. And if he isn't comfortable, I walk over to it. Put my hand on it. See its nothing. Ok. Go get it. He gets it and we throw a party for his self-esteem. He's a lot less skittish around unfamiliar objects now. That's a good thing. 


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## murphy1 (Jun 21, 2012)

There are things we as owners can do nothing about ie fireworks etc. But we do not have to subject an animal to something he's afraid of because of our own interest. I do agree helping them overcome fear of things we cannot change is admirable.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

Would the same sentiment apply if it was scared of water? 


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## murphy1 (Jun 21, 2012)

I wouldn't make him swim. This is a forum and we all have our own opinions. There is no need for sarcasm.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

murphy1 said:


> I wouldn't make him swim. This is a forum and we all have our own opinions. There is no need for sarcasm.


You are correct. This is a forum and everyone is entitled to their own opinions, as well as their own choices with what activities they enjoy with their dogs. 

I apologize if you read my last remark as being sarcastic. That was not my intention. My intention was to understand the motive behind your opinion, so I could understand your PoV better. Walk a mile in your shoes, so-to-speak.

But I do not want to upset you, or cause feelings of antagonism - so I will drop the subject. 

Again, I apologize you felt I was attacking you. 


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## murphy1 (Jun 21, 2012)

Did not feel attacked so don't worry. It was my opinion on forcing a dog into something he was frightened of. Lets move on! Have a great day.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I think there's a huge difference between forcing a dog to do something and helping them get over their fears. For instance, if I had a dog scared of water, I wouldn't put them on a leash and drag them in until they were deep enough to have to swim, but I would consider putting on waders and playing out there, having another dog out there, throwing toys, to help encourage them to get over it. A dog that has had it's confidence built in one area can carry over to being more confident in other aspects of life.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Even my wimpy "I'm scared of the wind blowing" boy had no issue with guns going off because he was first introduced to them with real birds being thrown. When he realized that sound meant a bird was about to fall from the sky, he LOVED the sound


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## Tayla's Mom (Apr 20, 2012)

Loisiana said:


> I think there's a huge difference between forcing a dog to do something and helping them get over their fears. For instance, if I had a dog scared of water, I wouldn't put them on a leash and drag them in until they were deep enough to have to swim, but I would consider putting on waders and playing out there, having another dog out there, throwing toys, to help encourage them to get over it. A dog that has had it's confidence built in one area can carry over to being more confident in other aspects of life.


I can attest to this. When we got Tayla she was taken to a behaviorist who upon watching her from a distance before we ever got into the building said she was suffering from a lack of self confidence. She recommended we get her into Nose Work. It was a confidence builder in many ways. I agree in not physically forcing a dog who is fearful, but taking them down a road gently and at their pace will help bring them out of their shell. My previous dog was afraid of everything. I coddled her for years which did nothing. Then I started slowly exposing her to things and she eventually came out of her shell and had a fun enjoyable life. Was she still afraid of certain things, yes she was, but she had a more open horizon than she would have had otherwise.


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## Leslie B (Mar 17, 2011)

Guns up has a Cd with the sounds of a hunt test including gun shots. It is less than 25 bucks. I like to use it with my little pups. You can lower the volume at first and gradually increase when shrew get used to it.

Good luck


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Thank you Leslie - the CD is ordered I found it at dogsafield.com - I cannot wait.

Meanwhile this morning we had the third oops in the house - this time on the carpet. While cleaning it I felt the smell was quite strong. Went to the vet and good enough strong care of UTI. 
We have been doing play/train outside with the bumpers, mixing take it, leave it, bring it, front sits, side sits, go play, distant sit. She definitely needs more muscle on her so getting her exercised at her own pace in my main concern. 
I wish I had a camera with me - DH called Darcy to him, Rose decided to follow right behind Darcy. Darcy comes to a front, Rose still behind Darcy, DH says sit. Both sit. DH says Hold it, both hold but Darcy moves her head to the side, Rose tilts her head as is saying "what are you doing?"; DH touches Darcy's bumper and say leave it, Darcy leaves the bumper in his hand, Rose spits it out. Everyone now has the attention on Rose. DH points at the bumper and says "Rose take it back" and she darts for it, grabs it and swings into a heel sit and could not look more proud of herself.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

That sounds so precious. 


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## Leslie B (Mar 17, 2011)

There is something about watching a gun dog doing the job for which they were bred. It is like every fiber in them comes alive when they are fetching bumpers, ducks, dokkens or dumbells! I think that it is beautiful.

We introduced our 5 1/2 week old litter to a pigeon and to gun shot this weekend. It was fun to see the little noses come alive at the scent of the bird - one little boy tried to bring it back to me - but his sisters were trying to make off with the prize in the other direction! The shot made them all look but they had no real reaction. They were more curious about why their dad was making such a fuss to get out of the house. Of course their dad thought that some other dog was getting to go hunting and he had been left behind. Intro's like this help to pups to be confident and ready to meet the world when they go to their homes. When I hear of a dog lacking confidence I always wonder just how little work was done with them as pups.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

we have been going every weekend to the cabin to expose Darcy to gun shots. second weekend she was better, this weekend we had no problems. I was actually cutting the hair off her paws which DH was practicing target shooting outside. After which both dogs jumped on top of me on the recliner so they can watch daddy shoot. 
In the morning we went to the lake and both girls swam a bit, I initially went in for a swim and let them come to me. After a couple rounds and scratches on my legs - they both got a treat (THE BUMPER). Each had about 6 single marks and each completed the retrieve. Darcy really need to be worked on honoring because she is WAY too driven. I had to hold her with my body and whisper (WHOA) in her ear during Rose's retrieves. Am I glad I do not have the camera back yet!


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## OutWest (Oct 6, 2011)

She's such a beauty and it sounds as if she has settled well into your home. Have you definitely decided to keep her her? Hope so!


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Claudia M said:


> we have been going every weekend to the cabin to expose Darcy to gun shots. second weekend she was better, this weekend we had no problems. I was actually cutting the hair off her paws which DH was practicing target shooting outside. After which both dogs jumped on top of me on the recliner so they can watch daddy shoot.
> In the morning we went to the lake and both girls swam a bit, I initially went in for a swim and let them come to me. After a couple rounds and scratches on my legs - they both got a treat (THE BUMPER). Each had about 6 single marks and each completed the retrieve. Darcy really need to be worked on honoring because she is WAY too driven. I had to hold her with my body and whisper (WHOA) in her ear during Rose's retrieves. Am I glad I do not have the camera back yet!


I really don't know what everyone else does with honoring but I usually don't work on honoring in what I consider the early stages of training.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Claudia*

Hope you've decided to keep her-that poor baby being kept in a crate for 4 years!


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

The breeder is coming by on Tuesday evening. We would like to keep her, Rose and Darcy are so good together - so far they have learned from each other. Keep your fingers crossed for us.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Claudia*

All my fingers and toes are crossed.
DO you think the breeder would say no?


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

I don't want to jinx it Karen.  It comes to the contract, stipulations, cost etc.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Hope it works out for you. She's beautiful and sounds like a wonderful fit for you and your family.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

OutWest said:


> She's such a beauty and it sounds as if she has settled well into your home. Have you definitely decided to keep her her? Hope so!


I was actually completely amazed on how well she adapted to our home from the evening the breeder brought her over. She had a bad UTI infection and as of this past Saturday she had her last pills for it (we had to give her both antibiotics and pain meds as the poor thing was under so much pain trying to go #1). But now she is in heat. 

Here are the two of them (you can see mostly Darcy's diaper) plopped on my bed last night. At one point I thought I had to go and sleep on the *dog bed* but I managed to take the pillows off and sleep sideways where the pillows would have been. They were both nice enough to scoot a little so I can keep my legs on the bed. 

What upsets me even more is that the previous owner was a vet. There are no OFFA done on her - other than some thyroid tests - which were not even the Dods tests and a couple points towards the CH - there was nothing else done with her. 

She has finally learned both sit and down. She walks nicely on a loose leash but does not know heel. So we are still working with her. Hope to be able to keep on working with her and bring her to her full potential. :crossfing


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## OutWest (Oct 6, 2011)

Claudia M said:


> What upsets me even more is that the previous owner was a vet. There are no OFFA done on her - other than some thyroid tests - which were not even the Dods tests and a couple points towards the CH - there was nothing else done with her.


Well, shame on him (or her). Neglect out of ignorance is one thing, but when the owner clearly knows better... 

I'm guessing she was returned to the breeder? Hope it all works out. I really wanted a FCR a few years back. From my research, they sound like terrific dogs.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

OutWest said:


> Well, shame on him (or her). Neglect out of ignorance is one thing, but when the owner clearly knows better...
> 
> I'm guessing she was returned to the breeder? Hope it all works out. I really wanted a FCR a few years back. From my research, they sound like terrific dogs.


Considering how she was 2 weeks ago, I wonder what she would have been by now if she had the care she needed. From what I could tell (and these are assumptions) she was trying to breed her which the contract spells the fact that no breeding should take place until the dog has achieved at least the minimal titles in either obedience, agility or hunt.
If the breeder agrees, after this heat we will wait a couple months and then schedule the spay. I will discuss with her if she would prefer full spay or partial hysterectomy (which I am considering for Rose) and then concentrate on Agility and Hunt with her - She has great hunting instincts but they just have to be molded. 
The poor thing is still not comfortable to being hugged. I can get about 5-10 seconds out of her. Rose can sit there and just take it all in for hours if I would do it. When we are in the yard playing she is not quite sure what to do. Only once I saw her initiate play - I did not even care that it was midnight - I let her play and let Rose join in. 
She does counter-surf and if left in the yard to lay down with me a couple feet away she will dig out of boredom. Luckily we have an outdoor kennel where she lays down nicely while we are working Rose (obedience only - if we even have a bumper out she howl to high heaven).


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

meet our new family member Darcy!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## OutWest (Oct 6, 2011)

What a beauty she is! Congrats and best wishes on the new family member. I'm sure she'll bring you much joy.


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## Altairss (Sep 7, 2012)

Yes!!! so happy to hear she gets to stay, the work your doing with her is fantastic!


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

hahaha - I was afraid to post too many pics in order not to jinx it. My daughter who is overseas, 7 hours difference stayed up all night until I skyped her the "verdict".


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## OutWest (Oct 6, 2011)

Well now there's no possibility of a jinx, so I think you should post a whole bunch more!


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Don't mind if I do! .... Here are a couple from the first weekend with Darcy at the cabin.


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## SandyK (Mar 20, 2011)

Congrats!!! Darcy is beautiful and I am so happy she is staying with you!!


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

wow gorgeous!


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

Welcome Home Darcy!


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## OutWest (Oct 6, 2011)

Now you have the photographic challenge I've had ever since getting Tucker--how to take pics of a black and light-colored dog together! LOL 

She is just lovely, and looks very much at home.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

I will scan and post tomorrow the pic of Troopie and Jack on the same dog couch at the cabin over 10 years ago. Same challenge!


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Here are Troopie and Jack


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## OutWest (Oct 6, 2011)

Claudia M said:


> Here are Troopie and Jack


Very funny! It is a challenge to pull off the lighting. But it'll be easier since you have experience. :


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## lhowemt (Jun 28, 2013)

Congrats! I'm really curious about the partial hysterectomy you mention. We had a friend who did not neuter his dog, he got him a vasectomy. With so many health issues with early and spay, are there alternatives?


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## lhowemt (Jun 28, 2013)

Loisiana said:


> Even my wimpy "I'm scared of the wind blowing" boy had no issue with guns going off


This is too funny- our Lila is afraid if the wind too!! What a goofball, and while we din't hunt with her she couldn't care less about fireworks.


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