# Dogs that kill -- other dogs



## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Okay, this is a really far out there discussion. I'm not talking about aggressive dogs that go looking for trouble. I'm talking about dogs that get into a dog fight for whatever reason and end up killing the other dog, or a dog that is attacked by another dog and doesn't back down and kills the other dog.

Has anyone here had an experience like this? I'm wondering what are the psychological effects on the dog that kills another dog. Does it change the dog? 

Is this a terrible question to post on a golden retriever board? I'm almost afraid to ask it!


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## justmejanis (Feb 25, 2007)

Jo, it is not a terrible question. 

I seriously doubt there would be any problems. This is just my observation. Sammy killed that bunny today..same old happy slobbering Sammy! Had it been a dog I really don't think he would have felt any differently. I am not even sure they understand what actually happened.

I do think however that the owners, or anybody witnessing such an event, could be very traumatized.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

I have seen plenty of dog fights, blood was drawn , but never killed and right after the fight the dogs licked each other like nothing ever happen... not saying this is always the case..


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Growing up I had a Shih Tzu, Cubby-san, that was attacked by the German Shepherd down the street. My dog only had a 30 percent chance of surviving and was transferred to Angell Memorial Hospital in Boston after my vet did everything to stable him. He survived another 16 years!

What we found out after the incident, this dog had killed a Pekingese down the street only the week before. The family gave the dog to the police dept to become a police dog (or at least that is what we were told). I think he would have continued attacking the little dogs if he was still in the neighborhood. This dog had never seemed aggressive before that.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

I can say that Maggie has been attack 3 different times at a store( dont want to name it , because some might get upset) and all she was doing was sitting by my side looking at all the toys...... Maggie had her blood drawn once and the other 2 times she drew there blood defending herself......she will NOT back down....she was fine after each time... but i will say when I took her back she does scan the isles looking for dogs coming her way.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

There's a little dog across the street that sometimes gets out of its yard. Pearl is her name. Pearl is vicious, a chinese fighting breed but only a tad larger than a pomeranian. She's attacked Daisy twice and each time I had to pull Daisy away to save this dog's life. I'm not sure Daisy would kill the dog, to be honest. The first fight, I saw that Daisy had the dog pinned to the ground by the neck. Daisy wasn't moving, wasn't even flinching. It seemed very deliberate what Daisy was doing. She could have killed Pearl in that instant had she wanted.

But I worry that the dog will get loose again eventually and maybe the next fight, Daisy won't be so forgiving. I really am worrying. She gets along with every other dog on this block, except Pearl.

Am I underestimating Pearl in thinking that she couldn't hurt Daisy? I worry about Daisy hurting Pearl, but not vice versa.


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## Oaklys Dad (Dec 28, 2005)

I've seen all levels of dog fights. The worst case was my golden/Irish mix and my uncle chesepeake bay. Those two could not be in the same state together. Both were in general good dogs with other dogs but for some reason they just didn't see eye to eye and would have fought to the death. Talk about a scary fight to break up! My arms were bleeding from accidental bitings trying to pull them apart. 

So I don't think exploring the subject is wrong.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

I think If the dog keeps getting out I would call animal control. You dont want either to get hurt.


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## justmejanis (Feb 25, 2007)

Jo, I think the damage a large dog can inflict on a tiny dog can be devestating. Not necessarily deliberate, but if Daisy was defending herself, she could easily take Pearl out.

I have a huge ongoing dilema with my son's dog. Dante is a mix, HUGE, almost the size of a Great Dane. He was a pound puppy, not sure of his breed. He has all of the coloring, fur type and markings of a Doberman, but much larger.

He has a nasty temper and you really never see it coming. He can play with the other dogs, and then suddenly attack with no apparent reason.

He has sent both of my ex husband's dogs to the vet. Once when here visiting, he attacked Sunka who was literally laying down sleeping. Completely unprovoked. He has attacked every dog in our family.

We own guns, and this is a huge problem because Chuck has said, more than once, if that **** dog attacks one of our dogs again, he will shoot him.

A big problem when we have rare family gatherings. When they come to visit, they always bring Dante. I am always on pins and needles.

This is a large, dangerous dog, but he belongs to my son. It is a huge dilema to say the least.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Dogs don't kill other dogs by accident. When dogs choose aggression as their form of problem-solving, they have many choices regarding with what degree to bite:

BITE LEVELS 

Level 1: This bite does not touch the skin. It's air biting or snapping. This bite shows that your dog has Superior bite inhibition. 

Level 2: This bite makes contact with the skin, but doesn't break the skin. This can still really hurt and leave bruising, but no abrasions. This bite shows that your dog has Fabulous bite inhibition. 

Level 3: This bite ranges from 3.1; a minor abrasion - Great bite inhibition - to 3.9; 1 to 4 puncture wounds less than ½ the depth of the eye-tooth (fang) with or without some tearing - Good bite inhibition. 

Level 4: The dog is putting great pressure into the bite. 1 to 4 puncture wounds with or without tearing, more than ½ the depth of the eye tooth. This is usually accompanied with bruising and likely to require medical attention. At this point, although the dog certainly has intent to cause harm, he/she may still be showing some bite inhibition depending on the size and strength of the dog. 

Level 5: Multiple level 4 bites. This dog is usually beyond the ability to reason and may feel his/her life is threatened. This dog is no longer displaying bite-inhibition 

Level 6: The dog has killed. 

IMO, a dog that has killed another dog is too aggressive to be deemed safe and should be euthenized. Anything less would be irresponsible and would probably greatly reduce the dog's quality of life.

-Stephanie


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## Brinkleysmom (Dec 17, 2005)

I have never seen another dog kill another dog but I have seen many dog fights over the years. I will say this. Barney, came up from Alabama as a resuce and they believe he was used as a bait dog in dog fights. He has a forty percent hearing loss according to the vet and he has many scars, the vet says were caused by serious dog fights. That being said, Barney is a constant work in progress. He has finally become settled walking on a leash and he truly loves Brinkley. HOWEVER, when he sees another dog on a walk, no matter the size, he begins to shake and as the dog gets closer, he goes crazy barking and wanting to lunge at the other dog. Yet, he is great with Brinks, my friend's dog Nixie, and another dog, Zachary, a huge German Shepherd. He gets along great with those dogs. I believe that if Barney got loose, he probably would kill a smaller dog but more than likely would get injured by a bigger dog. Barney has been beaten because if you scold him he cowers, so you truly have to go easy. I am not sure if he will ever be off a leash like Brinks, and I seriously doubt he will. But my dad loves him and like I said, he is a constant work in progress and is having significant improvement. Myself?? I dont think I would ever trust him off a leash no matter how much he improves.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

I'm a lot disturbed by FQ's last point that a dog that kills another dog should be put to sleep. I MIGHT agree with that if we're talking about a dog that goes out looking to kill another dog. But a dog that gets into a fight with another dog that has attacked and ends up killing the other dog .... I just am not convinced that is a true sign of "aggression."


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Jo Ellen said:


> I'm a lot disturbed by FQ's last point that a dog that kills another dog should be put to sleep. I MIGHT agree with that if we're talking about a dog that goes out looking to kill another dog. But a dog that gets into a fight with another dog that has attacked and ends up killing the other dog .... I just am not convinced that is a true sign of "aggression."


Whether or not the dog went out of his way, or someone else started the fight and *that* dog ended it, I still think that I dog that has killed another dog is a HUGE liability. It's one thing to fight and inflict damage, another thing to fight and inflict SERIOUS damage.... and it's a far different thing to fight and KILL.

Even if we wanted to say, "It's not this dog's fault... he was attacked, etc." it still raises the issue of how is one supposed to live with a dog like that and give it a genuine quality of life? You can't take a dog like that out in public b/c of the threat of off leash dogs running up and potentially starting fights that *that* dog will finish - potentially via death. So does that dog never leave the house? I guess you could argue that it only leaves the house muzzled... but if it fought to the death, it's likely dog aggressive, so just seeing a dog will send it into a frenzy.

I'm all for giving aggressive dogs a chance -- but if they've fought and killed before, to me, that's far more of a risk than people should be taking. It's not just me trying to take the easy way out for the human, in many cases, I really feel it's more humane for the dog.

-S


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

Jo Ellen said:


> I'm a lot disturbed by FQ's last point that a dog that kills another dog should be put to sleep. I MIGHT agree with that if we're talking about a dog that goes out looking to kill another dog. But a dog that gets into a fight with another dog that has attacked and ends up killing the other dog .... I just am not convinced that is a true sign of "aggression."


Maybe I don't have enough experience dealing with aggressive dogs, but I would think there is a difference b/w a dog that is clearly defending itself and a dog that simply is aggressive and isn't capable of backing down.

Having said that, someone once told me (in regards to dog park issues I was having) that if Shamus were ever to be attacked (he's a big baby and would never hurt another dog), that it could change his personality. That has always stuck with me and scared me; it's one the reasons I'm afraid of the dog park.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Jo Ellen said:


> I'm a lot disturbed by FQ's last point that a dog that kills another dog should be put to sleep. I MIGHT agree with that if we're talking about a dog that goes out looking to kill another dog. But a dog that gets into a fight with another dog that has attacked and ends up killing the other dog .... I just am not convinced that is a true sign of "aggression."


Another thing to remember is that dogs have a choice - fight or flight. A dog that kills is choosing fight... and not only that, he's choosing the ultimate form of fighting. Even a dog that is choosing to fight has lots of choices in how much "fight" he puts into it.

It's like saying if you come over and shove me, I can walk away, shove you back or take out a baseball bat and pummel you to death. I definitely wouldn't be walking the streets as a free woman if I were to choose the latter.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

_{{{gulp}}}_

Well, I clearly do not know what Daisy would do to that dog across the street if she were given the opportunity to go far enough. The first time they fought, I saw that she had the dog pinned at the neck to the ground. She was very calm, very deliberate, very effective. I'll always remember that moment, it struck me. Not sure how it struck me, it just did!! She could have killed the dog in that moment but she didn't. So who knows. I'm not willing to find out.

I do know that I need to be careful with my dog around other dogs. At the first hint of trouble, I'm all in a panic. Daisy is not the kind of dog to back down. She just doesn't take any guff. She has never started a fight but she doesn't seem to be afraid if one erupts. I've seen her fight. She can fight. I'm not proud of that, I just recognize it.

Soooo, I guess the verdict is still out as far as if my dog is truly dog aggressive. She grew up in dog daycare, she's very well socialized, but she was attacked by another dog when she was 1 year old and I do believe that changed her forever. I know it changed me!! I think you got good advice on that, GoldenShamus.

I do know that if the worst ever does happen with the dog across the street, I would NOT put Daisy down. No way. 

Can you teach dogs how to fight "nicely." Can you teach bite inhibition? How on earth would you do that? I couldn't do it. I'm terrified of dog fights    

And I HATE that dog across the street because she forces me to live with that fear ALL THE TIME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Jo Ellen said:


> _{{{gulp}}}_
> 
> Well, I clearly do not know what Daisy would do to that dog across the street if she were given the opportunity to go far enough. The first time they fought, I saw that she had the dog pinned at the neck to the ground. She was very calm, very deliberate, very effective. I'll always remember that moment, it struck me. Not sure how it struck me, it just did!! She could have killed the dog in that moment but she didn't. So who knows. I'm not willing to find out.


When that happened, were there any marks on the other dog? Did it require medical attention?

Often, when we think "dog fight" it's really just a "spat". Looks ugly. Sounds worse. You actually want a lot of noise in a dog fight. It seems to be that the more quiet the fight (relatively speaking, of course) the more serious it is and the greater the damage to its participants.

To clarify - I'm not saying spats are just fine and dandy and fun, but they are a helluva long way from even having the remotest inking of _intent to disable/kill._ 

BTW, FWIW, "calm, deliberate and effective" does show bite inhibition. She only used as much force as was necessary at the time to get her point across. That's the idea... and that's what, to me, makes the difference when determining whether or not the dog should be put down.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Jo Ellen said:


> Soooo, I guess the verdict is still out as far as if my dog is truly dog aggressive. She grew up in dog daycare, she's very well socialized, but she was attacked by another dog when she was 1 year old and I do believe that changed her forever. I know it changed me!! I think you got good advice on that, GoldenShamus.


Obviously I can't say anything definitive w/o seeing the dog... but if she's not going out of her way to attack other dogs, and when she has gotten to a dog it's been mostly noise w/o any wounds requiring medical care, it really doesn't sound like you have to worry about her killing another dog. If anything, it sounds like she's a bit of a bully. Probably developed a rough and aroused play style growing up in day care (very common) and her incident of being attacked has taught her that the best defense is a strong offense.

Does she have designated dog friends, or is she bad with all dogs?


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

First of all, thank you soooo much for spending some time with me on this, FQ !!

The dog across the street did not require any medical care, no. They've fought twice, neither time was either dog hurt, never any marks.

She does have dog friends. She has 3 dog neighbors that she sees everyday. She gets along fine with them. She's been around alot of dogs that she's never had any trouble with. I just don't assume that she's going to get along with every dog she meets, or that every dog that happens by is going to be a nice dog.

I have to tell you, she did get kicked out of dog daycare a couple of years ago. She bit another dog. No one there could tell me what happened, because I don't think anyone was watching !! She'd been in daycare for 3 years, never any trouble at all and then suddenly that. I was very upset that no one could explain to me what happened. The way the owner of the daycare put it to me is that Daisy is grown up now, not a puppy anymore and not as patient with puppy antics as she once was. The owner did tell me she was *not *an aggressive dog. So that's the story of that. Personally, I would have taken her out of that daycare regardless, I was not pleased with the lack of supervision.

No, she is not bad with all dogs. She is not bad with most dogs. But obviously there's been a few experiences that leave me wondering. Dog parks?? _Forget it_ !! :no: 

A bit of a bully, that rings true with me. I think she overcompensates because I think that first attack really pissed her off. It did me too


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## kerribear's golden kids (May 17, 2007)

Hi all,
I see some familaur (sp) names & doggies here so thought I'd jump in with some of my experiences working at a doggie daycare & as a dog trainer.

Alot of what FQ is saying is oh so true about dogs and fighting. I have seen way too many dog fights in my life and I do agree with some of what is said. I have helped some dog aggressive dogs at doggie daycares with this problem and it is a good thing. 

Jo Ellen, you were not informed of Daisy's fighting problems because most of the people do not want your money taken away from them, so they allow it to continue no matter the costs, I am glad you were finally approached about it. At least someone there felt you should know! I had the un-pleasure of letting about 15 dog owners know of problems with their dogs that went on for years, I as a trainer and dog lover could not allow for this to continue, pet parents thinking thier dogs are safe and in good hands all the while problems are being covered up. Let's say I lost my job over that! Which in turn told me that the company hides way too much! 

As a trainer both behavior & obedeience. Dog fights are never good. No matter what kind they are. So with FQ's advise, take it all in and remember never let your gaurd down. 

I am now into rescue & fostering dogs in my home.
My oldest male Nemo has changed since his 1st fight with a fostering Mastiff. By the 3rd fight, he started fighting back visoiusly (sp), I in trun got bit trying to get him off the mastiff, by the mastiff, trying to bite him, got 4 stitches in my pinky for that 1. Last fight, hubby got bit by the mastiff, almost same deal. Now understand, these dogs were not together, they were seperated, but all fights were accidental, doors got left unlocked, mastiff outside when I did not know and then let mine out, door got pushed open, etc...
So yes, they do change and they do become defensive in some situations.
Please just watch her closely around any dogs you feel she may have a problem with...

Sorry for babbling on so long, hope you have gotten some good advise out of this?
Regards, Kerri


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Jo Ellen said:


> First of all, thank you soooo much for spending some time with me on this, FQ !!
> 
> The dog across the street did not require any medical care, no. They've fought twice, neither time was either dog hurt, never any marks.
> 
> ...


Ahh... "not patient with puppy antics." More than likelyl, the daycare had little intervening amongst the dogs. I'd bet money that she was being pestered (in play, likely, but pestered nonetheless) by the younger dogs at daycare. When none of the adults stepped in, she learned that she had to buck up and tell them off if she wanted any peace. It's too bad, really, b/c she shouldn't have had to escalate her corrections to the point of being kicked out if the people there were better at doing their job. 

I'm personally not a huge fan of dog daycare. Many of them are just indoor dog parks. I think often, the dogs are allowed to play way too rough with each other and when the staff doesn't require that the dogs take some down time for rest, the dogs get tired and edgy and become less tolorent of certain behaviors - and often that carries over to their interactions among dogs in general and not just while at daycare.

What happened with her first attack?

Sounds like she's an older bitch who doesn't tolorate youthful dogs getting up in her face. My Whippet bitch is the same way. She does not see any use for a puppy - period. When I got Quiz, I had to teach him to ignore her and not to even think about using her as his personal play thing. By the time he was about 18 months, they were fine together, but up to that point it was a lot of management and supervision. She's gone off on a couple puppies I've had here when they get "pesty". She doesn't hurt them. The initial behavior starts off as a perfectly appropriate reprimand from an older dog to a pup - but she takes it too far and goes all "Mommy Dearest and the No Wire Hangers" routine. Never a mark on the pup... She's just the major fun police dictator. It's loud and obnoxious and I always step in and back her off. To many, it looks like a fight, but it's just a way overdone, inappropriate reprimand. She'll do that to rude adolescent dogs who rush up in her face. I don't fault her for that. Adolescents should know better. Whenever possible, I step in front of her and block the offending adolescent from getting close enough to make her snark -- b/c she'd be the one who would get the bad rap even though the other dog would be the inappropriate one.

Check out this article - I bet you'll find some things that ring true for you and your girl. He Just Wants to Say "HI!" Article on rude dogs & dealing with aggression by Suzanne Clothier (I love Suzanne Clothier.)

-Stephanie


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## kerribear's golden kids (May 17, 2007)

FQ-
You hit it right on the head with this:
Ahh... "not patient with puppy antics." More than likelyl, the daycare had little intervening amongst the dogs. I'd bet money that she was being pestered (in play, likely, but pestered nonetheless) by the younger dogs at daycare. When none of the adults stepped in, she learned that she had to buck up and tell them off if she wanted any peace. It's too bad, really, b/c she shouldn't have had to escalate her corrections to the point of being kicked out if the people there were better at doing their job. 

I'm personally not a huge fan of dog daycare. Many of them are just indoor dog parks. I think often, the dogs are allowed to play way too rough with each other and when the staff doesn't require that the dogs take some down time for rest, the dogs get tired and edgy and become less tolorent of certain behaviors - and often that carries over to their interactions among dogs in general and not just while at daycare.

I was never so mad at the daycare I taught at when they allowed this to happen. By me not allowing this kind of behaviour, I was let go, instead of letting me help these dogs & owners, they fired me! Now tell me, does that make sence? JERKS!!!


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## 3 goldens (Sep 30, 2005)

That dog would not be allowed on my property no matter who he belonged to. My in-laws were told they had to keep their vicious mutt in their motor home when they camed to visit us. My gentle, loving Irish setter was not going to be attacked by that dog. Their dog would get under the table while we were eating and if anyone accidently put a foot against him, they were likely to get bitten. We couldn't very well tell them to put the dog out of their own house. But after we moved back to Texas and they would come down (from Ohio) in motor home, WE COULD TELL THEM he was not allowed in our house as our dog was not going to be shut up and none of us were going to be bitten at the table.!




justmejanis said:


> Jo, I think the damage a large dog can inflict on a tiny dog can be devestating. Not necessarily deliberate, but if Daisy was defending herself, she could easily take Pearl out.
> 
> I have a huge ongoing dilema with my son's dog. Dante is a mix, HUGE, almost the size of a Great Dane. He was a pound puppy, not sure of his breed. He has all of the coloring, fur type and markings of a Doberman, but much larger.
> 
> ...


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

FQ, thanks for posting that site and that article. Very good! I remember reading that before but it was good to read it again since I have more experience now ... it was definitely more meaningful. Definitely did ring true !! Appreciate everyone's input, especially those that have worked in dog daycare.

What happened with her first attack .... I'm not sure. I was living with my sister at the time. Daisy and one of my sister's dogs were laying under the table and then suddenly it just happened. The other dog was all over Daisy. I was trying to tear the other dog off of my dog but that is so hard to do by yourself. I finally just threw myself over her and figured if she was going, so was I. Daisy had 6-7 puncture wounds before it was over. I got a nasty bite myself but not at all sure which dog bit me. I moved out shortly after. And I've been terrified of dog fights ever since.

The article you posted, FQ, talked about assuming that certain breeds are safe and so they get more license from their owners to be rude. I think the same applies to small breeds. Alot of people think if a dog is small it can't possibly cause very much of a problem but that is sooo not true!

I heard somewhere that if you break up a dog fight, the dogs will want to "finish" it the next time they meet. Is that true? It seems to be true. Daisy and this little dog have fought twice now and I am so trying to make sure it never happens again. But this dog gets loose sometimes and just appears out of nowhere, it has no qualms at all about coming after Daisy. And then when I'm trying to break it up, I have Daisy turned around so I can head her in an opposite direction (indoors!) but the little dog will get under us and start nipping at her legs and her belly. It's INSANE! STUPID dog. I _really_ don't like that dog.

So the article says be prepared. How can I be prepared if this dog comes at Daisy again? I'm so afraid Daisy is going to kill this dog if they fight again. Maybe I'm over-reacting but maybe I'm right  That's where this whole thread started ... I just don't want my dog to have that kind of experience and I certainly don't want that experience for myself. I think I'm doing a very good job so far. I'm hypervigilant, I always know exactly where my dog is and what's coming into our environment but someday, I'm afraid my guard is going to be down and bang, it's going to happen. I would love to be less of a nervous wreck and more confident that I can handle this problem.

Sorry for such a long post!


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Hmmm.....I just had the most horrid thought. I thought if this dog comes after Daisy again, maybe *I *should kill it, before Daisy has a chance. I could just kick it into Tinbuktu or something. What a horrid thought. But I would rather it be me than Daisy. 

This little dog is terrorizing me. I've got to get a grip.


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## justmejanis (Feb 25, 2007)

Get a grip Jo, LOL! I know how frustrated you must be. Nasty dogs are just no fun to deal with at all.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

I'm on a 5 min break - ran home to pee my dogs and I'm out the door to two more lessons.

JO, get a can of Direct Stop and don't be afraid to use it. Won't HURT the dog, but should get it to turn tail and run the other way - or at least buy you enough time to escort Daisy back into the house.

Google Direct Stop... er, I think they switched the name to Spray Shield. It's a Citronalla spray. Sorta like a doggy pepper spray, but way easier on YOU and your dog if it blows back.

More later. Gotta run!

-Stephanie


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Good, I'll look for that! I'll plaster the poor bugger. And Daisy will be like, "Mom, how'd you do that!" LOL Good idea, FQ. It can't hurt and it certainly could save the day someday. The trick will be to make sure I have it on me when I go outside at all times cuz I never know when that dog's going to show up!


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Clip the spray to the handle of your leash... then you'll always have it when you're out!


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

I keep saying I'm going to buy that stuff and forget!


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

But she's not on her leash when she's out in the yard with me, or like when I let her out to go the bathroom. And I have no intentions of keeping my dog on a leash 24/7 around our home. I'll figure something out though!


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## Ant (Feb 25, 2007)

Jo Ellen said:


> Hmmm.....I just had the most horrid thought. I thought if this dog comes after Daisy again, maybe *I *should kill it, before Daisy has a chance. I could just kick it into Tinbuktu or something. What a horrid thought. But I would rather it be me than Daisy.
> 
> This little dog is terrorizing me. I've got to get a grip.


For condo/townhouse/apartment complex's I recommend .380 or 38 special with hollowpoints (no hot loads) For residential open areas I'd go with 38 special +P (hotter load) 9mm and if your aim is good a .45 caliber semi auto. Using a magnum would be overkill imho.


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## Carsonsdaddy (Nov 1, 2006)

:lol: Ant....very nice. I'll keep that info in mind, although all I have is a 12 gauge...it's pretty "all purpose"


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## Ant (Feb 25, 2007)

Carsonsdaddy said:


> :lol: Ant....very nice. I'll keep that info in mind, although all I have is a 12 gauge...it's pretty "all purpose"


The swiss army knife of weapons:rockon:


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

If she's not going out of her way to get to other dogs, you could teach a really, really, REALLY good reacall! A really great recall is a great way to keep a dog out of all sorts of potential trouble.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

100% recall ... now there's a concept !! LOL You're right, of course.

But realistically, would Daisy respond to that if she's in the midst of a dog fight


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Jo Ellen said:


> 100% recall ... now there's a concept !! LOL You're right, of course.
> 
> But realistically, would Daisy respond to that if she's in the midst of a dog fight


The idea is that you use it BEFORE she gets to the other dog. 

None of your property is fenced, right? Same with the owners of the little dog?


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

My yard isn't fenced, no. The little dog does have a fenced yard but it still gets out once in awhile. Maybe through the fence or maybe one of the kids accidently lets it out or leaves the gate open ?


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