# Growing bigger than expected.



## Almighty Zeus (Nov 17, 2012)

Hey guys so just a quick recent update Zeus is now 9 weeks & 4 days old. As far as obedience training he knows sit, shake with corresponding paw, stay, down, and easy (used when he's nipping at hands too hard). I weighed him today and he came out to be 14.2 lbs. I'm surprised he's growing so fast off of how little of food he gets daily (3/4 cup Blue Buffalo Wilderness Puppy). Is this an ok weight for him to be at even though I would like for him to follow the slow grow program? A lot of people have told me I need to feed him more, but I would like to make sure I can do everything in my power to make sure his hips develop as well as they possibly can.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

He gets only a total of 3/4 cups A DAY? That is not enough food to support a growing puppy. He needs more food than that for healthy growth of every single system in his body, brain, internal organs, muscles, bones, joints.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Please take a look at this information on slow growth.

slowgrow

Target Weights: 12, 16 & 20 weeks
Age Weight
12 wks. 15-16 lbs.
16 wks. 22-23 lbs.
20 wks. 28-30 lbs.


It was actually posted on GRF previously.
http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/golden-retriever-puppy-up-1-year/47678-weight-chart.html


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## Almighty Zeus (Nov 17, 2012)

"10 wks. 12 lbs.
The amount will vary with activity level, so it is impossible to recommend a precise amount; although it
will probably be approximately 1/2 cup (dry measure) per day, per pup in the beginning. (Not per meal!) This will
gradually increase to about 3/4’s cup per day, per pup by 8 weeks."


I saw that, but also saw that he is already 2.2 lbs overweight for his 10 wk. goal which he still has 3 days to grow which doesn't seem like much but he's growing rapidly. What would you recommend I feed him daily?


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## inge (Sep 20, 2009)

Well...both my dogs got 3/4 cup three times a day...


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

we fed Rose BB large breed formula. I did feed a little less than recommended on the bag. But we started her at 1 1/2 cups a day split in 3 meals. We slowly increased the morning and evening meals and by a couple weeks ago she went to two feedings a day. She is 6 months now and quite healthy, mostly muscle - we went thru all the lanky staged and she is finally filling in we a GR. She is 56 lbs now. 
All dogs grow at different rates and in different stages. But in my view 3/4 cups a day is starving that poor cute little boy. Do you give treats or kibble while training at least?


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## Almighty Zeus (Nov 17, 2012)

Yes I do give treats, but the calories he gets from them are minimal. Each treat is 1/2 a calorie so he'll get no more than 50 calories a day from treats.


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## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

I have read the Hovan slow growth plan, and I do not agree. Puppies grow incredibly fast and need nutrition--as mylissyk states, not just for bones, but for their their whole body. Puppies are growing brain cells, organs, as well as bone and muscle. It is imperative that they receive adequate nutrition to support this growth.

Moreover, genetics, more than any other factor, will determine how quickly your dog will grow, and what size he ends up being when he is mature. Genetics are going to determine whether your dog ends up with hip dysplasia. After all, HD is a genetic defect--which is why breeders do X-rays prior to breeding.

Blue Buffalo recommends 1.5 to 3 cups per day for a pup under three months that will be 50 to 100 pounds at maturity. 

You are feeding half of the minimum recommended amount. I encourage you to increase Zeus' daily food to at least 1.5 cups per day. BB recommends feeding 3 times per day. That would be .5 cups per feeding.

Also, I would not worry so much about the growth chart. Does he appear overweight? Each puppy will grow at his own rate. Give him the nutrition he needs.


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## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

I would add, as Claudia M states, you should increase his food as he grows. Puppies eat more than adult dogs.


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## Naples6020 (Dec 14, 2012)

Wow, My pup get 3.5 to 4 cups of day of blue buffalo. He is 22.8lbs at 12 weeks. He eats large breed blue buffalo. He gest a 1.5 cup in am 1/2 to 3/4 cup for lunch and 1.50 cup at dinner. His dad was 95lbs mom was 65lbs. My pup is not fat at all he gets plenty of exercise and he eats every bit of his meals. That is what the bag recomended.


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## Almighty Zeus (Nov 17, 2012)

His ribs could easily be felt when I first got him at 6 week and 10.5 lbs. Now I can still feel his ribs, but FAR less than I could even a few days ago. I wouldn't say he's overweight, but he is big for his age. I'm guessing this is purely genetics since his family naturally is on a larger side for Goldens and by a good bit but still healthy. I guess I'll up his intake to 1 1/2 and gradually work up to 2 or even 3 cups a day.


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

That slow growth plan was written by a respected GR breeder so the numbers are for dogs within the GR standard. If the parents are larger than the standard you cannot expect your pup to follow the guidelines. 

I understand the *idea* of the slow growth plan but I don't think it is for every puppy. I think 3/4 cup a day is ridiculous (I fed mine that amount 3 times a day at that age) but I also don't agree with feeding a lot just because they are growing puppies. 

Hip dysplasia is not 100% genetic. There are environmental factors too. An orthopedic surgeon I spoke to told me he does see a higher incidence of HD in overweight dogs. 

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## Millie'sMom (Sep 7, 2012)

While I agree that puppies need adequate nutrition, I believe overfeeding is just as harmful. It appears that you have already decided to increase Zeus' food, and that seems like a good idea as 3/4 of a cup per day does sound a little low. The service puppies in training that I foster, usually get 1/2 cup 3 times a day when they first arrive at 6 weeks and gradually increase it to 3/4 c 3 times a day by 3 months, and if we want to increase it more than that we have to ask the service organization for permission, as they don't want the dogs growing to quickly. The service organization provides the food Pro Plan LBP. 

Genetics will dictate to a large extent, how big your puppy is destined to be, but I think, that overfeeding can make a dog grow bigger/larger than nature/genetics meant him to be and that is when I believe you end up with joint issues.


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

Count me as one who believes that "slow growth program" is a bunch of hogwash. 

I agree with Max's Dad. Puppies grow at different rates. Bella was 15 pounds when we brought her in to the vet at 8 weeks, 3 days. The vet said at the time that she was not overweight. She grew fast out of the gate, and has slowed down considerably over the past few months. She's now about 55 lbs. 

It has nothing to do with how much we have fed her. She has always eaten 2 - 2 1/4 cups per day. Should we have cut her food intake in half? I don't think so.

I would ask your vet how much to feed him, before I would rely on something from the internet.


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Also, if the breeder did not follow the slow growth plan, (it begins at 5 weeks before they go home) I don't think it would be ideal for the new parents to follow it either. The pups would already be "too big" to be fed so little food. Molly was 11 lbs when I got her.. I wasn't going to feed her only 3/4 cup a day. 


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

Vhuynh2 said:


> Also, if the breeder did not follow the slow growth plan, (it begins at 5 weeks before they go home) I don't think it would be ideal for the new parents to follow it either. The pups would already be "too big" to be fed so little food. Molly was 11 lbs when I got her.. I wasn't going to feed her only 3/4 cup a day.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


I just think genetics play a bigger role in when their growth spurts will occur than the amount of food they get. Of course, if they're overweight, that's a different issue. 

It's no different with humans. We all know someone who reached their full height in the 8th or 9th grade, and others who grew several inches after graduating from high school. I doubt diet had as much to do with as their genetic blueprint.


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Nairb said:


> I just think genetics play a bigger role in when their growth spurts will occur than the amount of food they get. Of course, if they're overweight, that's a different issue.
> 
> It's no different with humans. We all know someone who reached their full height in the 8th or 9th grade, and others who grew several inches after graduating from high school. I doubt diet had as much to do with as their genetic blueprint.


I'm not arguing with you but isn't there a reason that large breed puppy formulas have less calories and fat than regular puppy food? It is to prevent the puppy from growing too fast which *may* be detrimental to their joint health, especially for larger breeds. 

I always fed all life stages food though.


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

Vhuynh2 said:


> I'm not arguing with you but isn't there a reason that large breed puppy formulas have less calories and fat than regular puppy food? It is to prevent the puppy from growing too fast which *may* be detrimental to their joint health, especially for larger breeds.
> 
> I always fed all life stages food though.
> 
> ...


I don't see it as arguing. I think a little healthy debate is good for the site. Sometimes, I think there is far too much agreement, and reluctance on the part of some to speak their mind. 

In Bella's case, I think feeding her less may have slowed her growth some. I can't say for sure, but she was never overweight. I've seen very few puppies on here that fall within those weight ranges, and have never seen anyone else with credibility recommend feeding an 8 week old pup 3/4 cup of food per day. This seems to be a lone voice in the wilderness, and I think it's dangerous to follow that advice over that of a vet.


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

Just to add, I asked our vet every time we went in if she was growing too fast, or was overweight. I even mentioned the "slow growth program." I was worried we were feeding her too much because of that. The vet strongly disagreed with those recommendations.


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Nairb said:


> I don't see it as arguing. I think a little healthy debate is good for the site. Sometimes, I think there is far too much agreement, and reluctance on the part of some to speak their mind.
> 
> In Bella's case, I think feeding her less may have slowed her growth some. I can't say for sure, but she was never overweight. I've seen very few puppies on here that fall within those weight ranges, and have never seen anyone else with credibility recommend feeding an 8 week old pup 3/4 cup of food per day. This seems to be a lone voice in the wilderness, and I think it's dangerous to follow that advice over that of a vet.


I'm not sure what Rhonda Hovan's credentials are but it seems like she is respected in the veterinary community for her research in golden retriever health. 

http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/CCAH/...er/understanding_cancer_golden_retrievers.cfm

I don't agree with feeding such a small amount either, but I don't think the idea of feeding a bit less to slow growth is absolutely preposterous. 


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

Vhuynh2 said:


> I'm not sure what Rhonda Hovan's credentials are but it seems like she is respected in the veterinary community for her research in golden retriever health.
> 
> http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/CCAH/...er/understanding_cancer_golden_retrievers.cfm
> 
> ...


I'm not questioning her credentials. She knows far more than I do. I'm just questioning her food intake guidelines, and the logic behind them. 

What are we trying to slow down? Skeletal growth? Muscle? Or just fat? She isn't specific about that. I have a hard time believing that cutting back food intake minimally would slow skeletal growth significantly, and I'm not sure I would want muscular growth to be stunted at that age either. Of course, I agree that a fat puppy isn't preferable. 


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

Plus I think people get too wrapped up in that growth chart. I looked at it a few months ago, and thought something was wrong until I talked to my vet about it. 


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Nairb said:


> I'm not questioning her credentials. She knows far more than I do. I'm just questioning her food intake guidelines, and the logic behind them.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


Me too. Maybe I'll email her and ask about that one of these days..


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## vcm5 (Apr 20, 2011)

I will speak up in favor of the Slow Growth Plan, I don't think it is hogwash. What I DO think is crazy though is to expect every single puppy to fit to the same weight requirements. They are guidelines and every puppy is different and has different parents. I think it is crucial to on the one hand, feed enough so that your puppy grows steadily and gets enough nutrition but on the other hand, it is also really important for your puppy to not grow out of control fast and be chubby. I am following roughly a slow growth plan with Winston but he ate more like 2 cups a day at that age and 3 cups a day plus extras now. He is extremely healthy and not too skinny or too fat. He is growing steadily at about the same amount each week. 

I am all in favor of not overfeeding puppies and going easy on their joints, but I think it is crucial to find a happy medium. Its worth it though and I think it can be accomplished with regular weighings and "hand checks" of your puppy by both you and your vet which is what we do.


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

vcm5 said:


> I will speak up in favor of the Slow Growth Plan, I don't think it is hogwash. What I DO think is crazy though is to expect every single puppy to fit to the same weight requirements. They are guidelines and every puppy is different and has different parents. I think it is crucial to on the one hand, feed enough so that your puppy grows steadily and gets enough nutrition but on the other hand, it is also really important for your puppy to not grow out of control fast and be chubby. I am following roughly a slow growth plan with Winston but he ate more like 2 cups a day at that age and 3 cups a day plus extras now. He is extremely healthy and not too skinny or too fat. He is growing steadily at about the same amount each week.
> 
> I am all in favor of not overfeeding puppies and going easy on their joints, but I think it is crucial to find a happy medium. Its worth it though and I think it can be accomplished with regular weighings and "hand checks" of your puppy by both you and your vet which is what we do.


If you're feeding him 3 cups a day, you're not following the "slow growth program" that is being discussed here. It sounds like you're giving Winston the amount of food he needs.


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## Millie'sMom (Sep 7, 2012)

I do not know enough about the slo growth plan to comment on it. However, 3/4 cup of food a day is not enough for a growing puppy, and I believe the OP stated he was going to increase the amount. I don't believe in giving a puppy too much, especially with the super-premium foods that are now available, that pack a lot of nutrition into a small volume. Like most things in life, moderation is probably best. Too much a nutrient is just as harmful as not enough. Most of the goldens I see, out and about, are way above the breed standard and I have to wonder if it has anything to do with the availability of super premium foods and overfeeding.


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## vcm5 (Apr 20, 2011)

Nairb said:


> If you're feeding him 3 cups a day, you're not following the "slow growth program" that is being discussed here. It sounds like you're giving Winston the amount of food he needs.


Winston is four months old now and he gets a lot of exercise and so I have recently upped him to three cups. I have been weighing regularly and adjusting the food accordingly. He actually fits the slow growth plan perfectly, he has been within a pound of the suggested weights at every single time point. Winston was 20 weeks yesterday and he weighs exactly 28 pounds.

The plan suggests 3/4 cup per day by eight weeks, but does not say that you shouldn't increase this amount as they grow. It also says "Please note that it is always more important to feed to correctly manage each individual pup's weight gain, rather than to try to schedule a certain specific amount of food." There is no set amount of food you need to feed to follow the slow growth plan. At nine weeks I had Winston eating about 1.5 cups per day, then 2 cups per day, then 2.5 cups per day, and now 3 cups per day. In a few months I expect to go back down a little.


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## Dwyllis (Nov 22, 2012)

My puppy was certainly getting more than that per day, in kibble, plus appropriate wet food. I would never feed the minimum on those guidelines. Like human babies, every puppy is different, so I don't go by those generalising guidelines. Loki gained weight quickly & at 18 weeks was over 50lbs. I was worried he might be overweight & asked the vet to check him out, & was told he was in very nice physical shape. I did the same when he was 13 weeks & seemed to be gaining too quickly & was reassured then that he was in good physical shape, & that was by a different vet in the practice. To be honest, I would rather feed a little more than not enough, as large breed puppies must have their growth requirements met to sustain proper bone & joint growth.


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

vcm5 said:


> Winston is four months old now and he gets a lot of exercise and so I have recently upped him to three cups. I have been weighing regularly and adjusting the food accordingly. He actually fits the slow growth plan perfectly, he has been within a pound of the suggested weights at every single time point. Winston was 20 weeks yesterday and he weighs exactly 28 pounds.
> 
> The plan suggests 3/4 cup per day by eight weeks, but does not say that you shouldn't increase this amount as they grow. It also says "Please note that it is always more important to feed to correctly manage each individual pup's weight gain, rather than to try to schedule a certain specific amount of food." There is no set amount of food you need to feed to follow the slow growth plan. At nine weeks I had Winston eating about 1.5 cups per day, then 2 cups per day, then 2.5 cups per day, and now 3 cups per day. In a few months I expect to go back down a little.


That's way more food than I've ever fed Bella, yet she was about 45 lbs at that age (she's about 55 at 7 months, 10 days). There's a good chance that Winston will eventually surpass her in weight, because, 1. Winston is male, and 2. Bella doesn't seem to be gaining much weight. I think she'll be 65-70 lb or so, at the most. 

Why the differences in growth rates of these two puppies? It's clearly not related to amount of food intake, since Bella eats less than Winston. Genetics determines growth spurts, and the adult size of the dog. Not food intake. That of course assumes you're not feeding way too much or way too little. 

Hovan also suggests only two feedings per day after 8 weeks. 

Edit to add: Bella also gets a lot of exercise. 

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## Almighty Zeus (Nov 17, 2012)

Ok so I upped his intake to 1 1/2 cups today (1/2 cup 3 times), and his stomach has been horribly upset all day. He acts like his normal self but has the worst diarrhea right now. Could this just be from the increase in nutrition?


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Almighty Zeus said:


> Ok so I upped his intake to 1 1/2 cups today (1/2 cup 3 times), and his stomach has been horribly upset all day. He acts like his normal self but has the worst diarrhea right now. Could this just be from the increase in nutrition?


That can happen when you increase the amount too quickly. Start by feeding him 1 cup a day for a few days, then 1.25 cups, etc. The increase has to be done slowly or the pup gets upset stomach. 


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