# puppy with undescended testicle - advice please



## CRS250 (Dec 31, 2012)

I feel like an idiot as I failed to notice this before we purchased our pup, we had our first vet visit this past week for his 2nd round of vaccinations @10 weeks old and the vet said he has an undescended testicle she cannot feel. We love our boy and purchased him as a pet with the intent that we would likely have him neutered under 2 years of age, at most i would consider doing obedience competition with him. So it isnt as bad as it could be. However I have a couple of questions I'd like to ask of those here:

I've read up here in the forums and other locations on the internet and it seems this is a genetic problem & per the advice here

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDUQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pet-informed-veterinary-advice-online.com%2Fcryptorchidism.html&ei=K9onUfTXFIjTigLSo4HYCw&usg=AFQjCNFZ6VnPT_N_2KxkPqonb_QKDxP5fA&sig2=xEtJCAXpHz1ta2JBRTFbQQ&bvm=bv.42768644,d.cGE

"*Loss of the affected animal's parents and siblings from the breeding pool:*
When a cryptorchid animal (or animals) appears in a litter, the implication of this is that both of the parents, male and female, must have been carriers of the defective cryptorchid genes, even if the sire did not show any outward sign of cryptorchidism himself. This is due to the recessive way in which the cryptorchid gene(s) is/are thought to be passed down the generations (see section 10c for full details). Additionally, because the parent animals are both carriers of the defect, there is every likelihood that some of the other offspring in the litter (the siblings of the affected animals) may also be carriers of the abnormal genes. Therefore, if control and eradication of the cryptorchidism condition is to occur in a breeding population, the parents of the affected animals, as well as any siblings of the affected animals, should not be bred from. This constitutes a significant loss of breeding potential from that one kennel or cattery. "

My question:

1. If this website is accurate Our pup must be neutered(seems obvious & in his best interests health wise) and ethically neither of the dogs parents should ever be bred again. Is this generally accepted and should our breeder not breed her stud or bitch again? 


2. We paid $1500 for our dog with limited AKC registration, our contract specifies the animal is intended as a pet, not show quality. With a "genetic health guarantee for 2 years" Should the breeder provide compensation for the now more expensive neuter surgery the pup will now likely require?


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## Willow52 (Aug 14, 2009)

I wouldn't be too concerned yet at 10 weeks, I've read it can take up to 6 mos. Is your vet concerned or just commenting that 1 has not dropped yet?


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## CRS250 (Dec 31, 2012)

Definitely concerned as she said she cannot feel it, she indicated that while it wasnt completely out of the question it would descend on it's own we should plan to remove it surgically.


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## Altairss (Sep 7, 2012)

I have had several dogs over the years the vet said they could not find one testicle then suddenly a few weeks or months down the road there it was. On my dogs they all came down before six months. Mention it to the breeder that the vet could not find one of them on the initial visit and that you are concerned that if it does not come down the possible more expensive neuter.
But don't stress yet sometimes they just seem to hide from even an experienced hand give it some time first.


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## goldhaven (Sep 3, 2009)

When my vet has encountered an undescended testicle at 10 weeks old, she has never been concerned. She has always said to just wait until 6 months to see if it would descend on it's own. Most of the time, it descended on it's own. I only remember one time that it didn't and a neutering was scheduled.


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

At this point, it still could come down. After about 16 weeks, there isn't much hope. 

You can still do a late neuter about 12 months of age as recommended in Rhonda Hovan's article here:
http://www.weebly.com/uploads/2/0/2...her_and_when_to_neuter_a_golden_retreiver.pdf

I don't think it is reasonable or recommended to take either parent out of a breeding program. On the grand scale of things: cancer, dysplasia, pigmentary uveitis, SAS, monochryptorchidism isn't as large of a deal. While important, it falls to the end of the spectrum. I would advise your breeder and perhaps they will not breed these two dogs together again. When bred to other dogs, they may be bred to a clear for the gene and only produce carriers for this issue. We don't know the mode of inheritance, etc. 

The neuter will be more like a spay with an additional incision in the abdomen to retrieve the other testicle. It shouldn't be that much more costly. 

Sometimes puppies that are nervous or scared they will pull their testicles up into their abdomen. Don't worry just yet! 


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## OnMyWay2MyDreams (Feb 13, 2011)

Too early to say for sure..if it still hasnt dropped by then it probably wont and you will have to do surgery to find the other one. You should wait until he is about one or slightly older to do the surgery as it gives the other testicle time to get even bigger so it is easier to locate. You don't want to leave it in there because of the chance to become a tumor, like my shih tzu had happen, but his was both testicles and he had bleeding disorders so unable to get the surgery.

1. If in fact it does not drop then yes neither parent should be together bred againIMHO. Not knowing who had the gene as their isn't a test for that problem. You could test breed with another and see if it comes through..but not sure if its worth the risk? 
2. You can ask if she would help but I wouldn't expect my breeder to do it, unless it was suppose to be 1) a show dog or 2) in her contract. 

Just my thoughts as someone who has been though it and through being a vet tech.


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## CRS250 (Dec 31, 2012)

Thanks for the replies and the encouragement. 

I'll wait and hope our boy is a late bloomer but plan to mention it to the breeder regardless of outcome so she is aware of the issue and potential for future litters.


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## bljohnson4 (Jul 7, 2012)

Cooper's first testicle didn't drop until we had had him for a few months (maybe around 4 months of age). We were required by our contract to get him neutered by 8 momths and it had not dropped by that time. It was a little bit more expensive but required more healing time. He had the normal incision for the dropped testicle and then a 3-4 inch incision along the side of his penis to find the second testicle. I hope your pup's testicle drops so you don't have to worry about it!


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## Millie'sMom (Sep 7, 2012)

Did your puppy have a vet check before he left the breeder? If he did and it was undescended at that time it will be noted on the vet record you were given.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Quite frankly, my experience is if it is not in the correct place at 8 weeks, then it will probably not come down. However, the testicles are so small, that sometimes one inadvertently pushes it up when feeling for it. My belief is if they are not palpable by four months, they are retained.

I know PG believes that any dog/bitch that produces it should be removed from a breeding program. It is a sex determined recessive trait... I do not agree with her on that as in the scheme of things, although it interferes with perpetuating the breed, health wise I find it a non issue. If we removed the stud dogs that have produced it, some OS would be gone!


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

Also... When did your vet check for testicles.,it should be the first thing checked because once they start being examined, the testicles will go up.


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## xoerika620xo (May 25, 2012)

Chester was a late bloomer. I took him to the vet at 8 weeks then at 12 weeks and it still didn't drop. I actually have a thread i posted here about it. 

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/golden-retrievers-main-discussion/119445-one-testical-fleas.html

they did drop before his last set of shots. Don't be discourage. Good luck and i wish you guys well.


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## toliva (Nov 24, 2011)

Our boy has an undescended testicle too. It was reported to us by the breeder before we bought our pup, and we were given the option of whether we wanted him. Since we were not planning on breeding, I didn't care much about the testicle. But I'm surprised your breeder didn't discover it. That seems like a pretty basic thing to check for.

That said, I would not ask for reimbursement of the neutering expense. That's JMO. I personally don't think it falls under a health warranty. And it isn't going to be that much more expensive.

Our boy is intact still, at 15 months. Neutering will be done when he is about 18 months old. I have no opinion on the breeding question. Not being a breeder, it doesn't concern me.


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## CRS250 (Dec 31, 2012)

Thanks all.

Answering a couple of questions:

1. No vet check prior to our pickup of the puppy. The breeder does 5in1 vaccination herself. This was his first vet check @11 weeks. Other than the testicle he has had zero health problems, no vomiting, no diarhea, good energy etc. and clean stool sample tested at the checkup.
2. Vet spent about 10 minutes in the room talking and socializing with the pup and I before physical exam, she started at head and moved backwards. He was pretty relaxed throughout. I've checked since and confirmed.


Long story short the neuter will work out to about $400 more for us because of this problem. Given that we paid what I think was a very fair price to the breeder for a pet quality genetic guarantee dog with limited registration. I'm leaning towards the side of politely asking the breeder to share in that cost. Worse case scenario she says no and we move on from there.


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## goldhaven (Sep 3, 2009)

IMO, $400 extra is a little excessive for a neuter w/undescended testicles. I would check out the price with other vets in your area. My vet does a spay for about $65 and a neuter is $60. This includes everything except pain meds.


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## CRS250 (Dec 31, 2012)

goldhaven said:


> IMO, $400 extra is a little excessive for a neuter w/undescended testicles. I would check out the price with other vets in your area. My vet does a spay for about $65 and a neuter is $60. This includes everything except pain meds.


Unfortunately living in the bay area means everything is more expensive. The county here offers "low cost" spay for $185. Our vet charges double that and said to expect the surgery to be more expensive than their normal fee for a spay. As I've seen some pretty terrible pictures of exploratory surgery to find a testicle online, I'm inclined to use my usual vet despite the higher cost.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

My Selka had an undescended testicle and we had him neutered at one year with no problems. He had two incisions to reach the other testicle.

His sire was CH. Sunfire's Valiant Apollo who lived to be 17. Neither his sire or dam had this issue in their history. It caused no problems through out his life and he was a wonderful beloved therapy and obedience companion. He died in 2010 at almost 12 of osteosarcoma of the shoulder.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

The prices from Goldhaven are way lower than Maine. And I am sure California is much higher than Maine. Personally, I think that pups should be vet checked before sold. I also require in my contract that the pup be checked within 72 hours of purchase. My mentor would refund money for cryptorchids because the neuter was more expensive. I think that goes above and beyond, IMO. If the dog was bought as a pet, not a conformation dog or breeding dog, it is not the breeder's fault...however, the breeder should be checking her pups as well...


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## Jennifer1 (Mar 31, 2012)

Goldhaven's prices are a lot less than here.
I've been quoted 350-450 for Kenzie's spay


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## vcm5 (Apr 20, 2011)

Winston has an undescended testicle and at seven months it is not going to come down. It didn't even occur to me to ask the breeder to cover the cost difference, I'm not sure I think that really "counts," I'm not sure why!


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## vcm5 (Apr 20, 2011)

CRS250 said:


> As I've seen some pretty terrible pictures of exploratory surgery to find a testicle online, I'm inclined to use my usual vet despite the higher cost.


Oh no, this freaks me out! Are these surgeries really that bad?


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## CRS250 (Dec 31, 2012)

vcm5 said:


> Oh no, this freaks me out! Are these surgeries really that bad?


Sorry to read your boy is possible in a similar situation. I'm new to this problem but from what I understand by searching the net on the topic there are different severities of problems. The most simple is a case where the undescended testicle is in the correct area to have dropped but too large to do so, the next most common is that it can be felt under the skin of the abdomen, while the most severe is that it can neither be felt or seen. In this third case the surgeon must explore the abdomen to find the missing testicle. If the abdomen must be explored it is done through a secondary incision running 3 - 4 inches along the abdomen. 

Currently our Murphy is in this third category. The vet could neither visible locate or feel the testicle. Hopefully as he matures it either drops into place or can at the least be located without surgery.


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## goldhaven (Sep 3, 2009)

Here in Ga. they have an organization that offers low cost spay and neuter. My vet used to participate in this program. Another vet recently bought my vets practice and when I inquired if they still participated in the program they said that they no longer have to because they are now charging less than the certificate. The new owner charges the same price as the humane society because he feels that he can provide better care at the same price. 
I have a lot of respect for a vet whose primary concern is animals before money. 
My point is that you can find a lower cost almost anywhere. I agree that I wouldn't sacrifice care for money but I still maintain that an ADDITIONAL $400 on top of the regular price is excessive no matter where you live. I have never even heard of a regular neuter for that price. You don't have to go for a discount neuter but you could at least check that prices of the other vets in your area.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

In all honesty, I would never think to ask for help with this. Should the breeder be made aware, yes. Should you have been told, yes, if they were aware. And you could ask for help covering the expense, it could be worth a shot.

My breeder is all over the boys through out their growth and some do tend to yo yo. I am hoping this is the case for you. She is also very clear about disclosing this although, I have never seen or heard of anyone refusing a pet puppy based on a retained testicle.

Personally, I kind of think that the surgery to alter a pet as an expected cost of ownership and even with the extra cost of a retained, it is usually similar in price to a spay. And there is usually no price break for buying a girl. In fact for some reason I can not comprehend some folks (usually not the most reputable) ask more for girls even when sold on limited registration?!

Good luck. I hope the "ball drops"


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## CRS250 (Dec 31, 2012)

goldhaven said:


> My point is that you can find a lower cost almost anywhere. I agree that I wouldn't sacrifice care for money but I still maintain that an ADDITIONAL $400 on top of the regular price is excessive no matter where you live. I have never even heard of a regular neuter for that price. You don't have to go for a discount neuter but you could at least check that prices of the other vets in your area.


We expected to pay around $100 at a low cost alternative for his neuter procedure, assuming he needs exploratory surgery it will be "around" $500 at our regular vet. Who does not offer low cost procedures. (Our first puppy visit, vaccination + stool test? $115 The location is convenient and we have multiple friends who rave about the care.)


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## goldhaven (Sep 3, 2009)

I am happy that you are comfortable with your vet. That is much more important than the cost.


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## Heart O'Gold (Jul 31, 2012)

I basically have the same question as the OP regarding neutering cost with an undescended testicle. Bentley is 10 months and I am planning on neutering him around 1 year old, (possibly 18 months if his breeder agrees). The procedure will cost around $1000. I plan on sending the estimate I received to my insurance to see if they will cover the procedure as they can't say until reviewing his vet records. If they don't cover it I can use an FOA certificate and maybe knock off a couple hundred bucks but it will still be $$$. I really trust my vet so I will be going with him regardless but I just wondered what people think of the cost. Is it unusually high?


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## Ksdenton (Mar 17, 2013)

Wow! These prices are really high. In the Orlando area it's definitely not that high. 


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Yes, $1000 is a ridiculous amount of money to pay for a neuter even with a cryptorchid. Wait, not ridiculous -- more like ludicrous.

And regarding removing parents from the gene pool who produce a cryptorchid. Sorry but we wouldn't have any dogs left to breed. It's a really common problem, and while disappointing to have a show potential pup not descend, is irrelevant for pet puppies.


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