# Is This a purebred golden?



## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

How much does she weigh? From the pic, she looks all golden.


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## goldenmommytobe (May 27, 2011)

thanks i think about 6-8 lbs judging from picking her up. shes light with a pot belly, which i know may be worms but breeder does worm her.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Well there's really nothing by your post that clues us in to how big she is. Looks like a purebred golden to me.


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## goldenmommytobe (May 27, 2011)

thanks. The breeder gauranteed the health and has a great contract. I just wanted to check in here since you guys have been so great only thing is she does not have akc papers but i've seen her parents. we're going to pick her up today and take her to the vet. thx


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## Braccarius (Sep 8, 2008)

goldenmommytobe said:


> thanks. The breeder gauranteed the health and has a great contract. I just wanted to check in here since you guys have been so great only thing is she does not have akc papers but i've seen her parents. we're going to pick her up today and take her to the vet. thx


If she doesn't have an AKC registration this could be from an unauthorized litter. Chances are that this dogs parents does not have a single hip, elbow, eye or heart clearance. I would strongly suggest that you not purchase an animal in this fashion.


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

she says we have all been so great, but she didn't learn a thing..... 
no papers = poor breeding and poor breeder 
oyyyyyy 
its amazing how someone can be so concerned about whether its a purebred golden and not give a hoot about the anything else.... things that make me wonder....


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## Braccarius (Sep 8, 2008)

Shalva said:


> she says we have all been so great, but she didn't learn a thing.....
> no papers = poor breeding and poor breeder
> oyyyyyy
> its amazing how someone can be so concerned about whether its a purebred golden and not give a hoot about the anything else.... things that make me wonder....


I think people get blind in their excitement over the prospect of owning an animal that they'll take chances they normally wouldn't. I understand where people are coming from when they buy that gorgeous ball of fluff that is so happy and friendly and loving. I just wish people would realize that their little ball of fluff may come with genetic baggage that could make you watch your best friend suffer and cost thousands of dollars. I would be less concerned about the animal being purebred and more concerned about the animal dropping dead of SVAS, limping its whole life or going blind.


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

goldenmommytobe said:


> thanks. The breeder gauranteed the health and has a great contract. I just wanted to check in here since you guys have been so great only thing is she does not have akc papers but i've seen her parents. we're going to pick her up today and take her to the vet. thx


There's a health guarantee and a contract, but she doesn't even have AKC papers? :doh:

Sounds to me like whether or not she's "purebred" might be the least of your worries. 

And if you can't even trust that this woman is, in fact, selling you a purebred puppy, why in the world would you buy from her in the first place?


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## goldenmommytobe (May 27, 2011)

what is an unauthorized litter? The breeder said her dogs have had testing for everything but that she hadn't registered the litter yet and she had 6 mo to do so.


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

goldenmommytobe said:


> what is an unauthorized litter? The breeder said her dogs have had testing for everything but that she hadn't registered the litter yet and she had 6 mo to do so.


that is different than not having papers

yes she has time to register the litter.... so they will be registered??? 

did you see copies of hips, eyes, heart and elbow clearances....

unauthorized litter doesn't apply in the states only in Canada, there is no such thing here


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

I second Shalva and Braccarius.... but I run into issues like this all the time with clients. I tell them what to look for and then they do what they want to do anyway. In fact a client I had known for at least 15 years asked me my opinion on a particular BYB/Puppy Mill in the area. I told her what I could garner from this breeder's website(I told her that I had heard that the sire of the litter produces some temperament issues). Fast forward to several months later when other clients asked me if I had seen so and so's new pup. I put 2 and 2 together and realized that my client had already purchased the pup when she asked me my opinion... she was still bringing her other golden to me. So the next time I saw, her I brought it up. Anyway said pup in question at just over one year is dog aggressive.

Generally if you don't do AKC, you most definitely don't do OFA or CERF.


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## Braccarius (Sep 8, 2008)

goldenmommytobe said:


> what is an unauthorized litter? The breeder said her dogs have had testing for everything but that she hadn't registered the litter yet and she had 6 mo to do so.


An unauthorized litter is the result of two dogs being bred that are on limited registrations. These are dogs that are required by contract to be neutered or spayed and not to be bred. As a result, any off-spring produced can never be registered with the AKC, CKC or UKC.

The tests required by the GRCA are for heart, hip, elbow and eye. All clearances need to be performed by specialists in the respective fields (cardiologist, opthamologist etc.). OFA and PennHip are acceptable in the US and OVC is the Canadian counterpart. If she has full clearances get her to show them to you in paper and see if you can find them on www.offa.org. 

I am unsure of how the registrations for litters are, but prior to owning my two, they were both CKC registered.


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

Braccarius said:


> An unauthorized litter is the result of two dogs being bred that are on limited registrations. These are dogs that are required by contract to be neutered or spayed and not to be bred. As a result, any off-spring produced can never be registered with the AKC, CKC or UKC.
> 
> The tests required by the GRCA are for heart, hip, elbow and eye. All clearances need to be performed by specialists in the respective fields (cardiologist, opthamologist etc.). OFA and PennHip are acceptable in the US and OVC is the Canadian counterpart. If she has full clearances get her to show them to you in paper and see if you can find them on www.offa.org.
> 
> I am unsure of how the registrations for litters are, but prior to owning my two, they were both CKC registered.


In the states you register the litter or you can rgister the pups individually but its a bit different than in Canada.... 

I see what you mean by unauthorized litter,,, thats not a term I had heard here regarding those on limited registration 
although it sounds like these pups will be registered at some point


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

goldenmommytobe said:


> what is an unauthorized litter? The breeder said her dogs have had testing for everything but that she hadn't registered the litter yet and she had 6 mo to do so.


 
"Unauthorized" was not an accurate choice of words. Perhaps "unregistered" is what is applicable here. And the litter can only be registered IF both parents are (on full registration, not limited). Ask to SEE the documentation of clearance testing - Orthopedic Foundation for Animals (OFA) certificates for hips and elbows, and cardiac, and also (VERY important) CERF testing (Canine Eye Registration Foundation). The health clearances are more important than the AKC registration, frankly. If they cannot be provided, I would strongly suggest that you continue looking. What does the health guarantee promise?


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

goldenmommytobe said:


> what is an unauthorized litter? The breeder said her dogs have had testing for everything but that she hadn't registered the litter yet and she had 6 mo to do so.


An unauthorized litter would be one that can not be registered with the AKC. Do the parent dogs have AKC registration? Ask to actually see the documentation showing the dogs hip, eye, heart, and elbow tests and results.

Hasn't been registered yet is much different than can not be registered. However, when you bring the puppy home a reputable breeder would have the puppy's registration forms to send with the puppy.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

mylissyk said:


> An unauthorized litter would be one that can not be registered with the AKC. Do the parent dogs have AKC registration? Ask to actually see the documentation showing the dogs hip, eye, heart, and elbow tests and results.
> 
> Hasn't been registered yet is much different than can not be registered. However, when you bring the puppy home a reputable breeder would have the puppy's registration forms to send with the puppy.


OR, at the very least, a signed document with the *full registered names and number of both sire and dam*, whelping date of litter, and stating that registration for the litter/puppies is forthcoming. Without that info you cannot follow up with the AKC if you don't get papers.


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

goldenmommytobe said:


> thanks. The breeder gauranteed the health and has a great contract. I just wanted to check in here since you guys have been so great only thing is she does not have akc papers but i've seen her parents. we're going to pick her up today and take her to the vet. thx


This sounds like a backyard breeder that likely does no clearances. I'd keep looking. She does look to be a golden, though.

If you type in the dog's registered names at www.offa.org you will be able to see clearances. If they don't show, they haven't been done.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Is this a BYB dog? I'm a little afraid from what you've posted so far that you've ignored everybody's advice.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

She does look like a purebred golden like everyone says. But I would talk with the breeder and ask if there are clearances done on the dogs and if not then I would walk away. Yes she is a cute puppy but all puppies are cute. And without clearances on the parents you could be opening yourself up to heartache with this puppy. Responsible breedes have their paperwork before ever breeding their dogs and have the proper clearances. The clearances are heart, eye, hip and elbow. The dogs are bred after they are two years old. Under the puppy and community section is a sticky for facts for new puppy buyers. It shows what you need to know in finding a good breeder. 

We have all been new people in buying a puppy and not known what to look for at one time or another. That is why this forum is so helpful. If you give us an idea of what state you are in, we can tell you of some good breeders. 

There are no guarantees in life but getting the clearances and doing the proper stuff ahead of time do put you ahead of the game. And dont let the breeder tell you anything different. 

Welcome to the forum


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## spruce (Mar 13, 2008)

would it be too rude to ask how much they are asking for this pup?


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## goldenmommytobe (May 27, 2011)

to update I passed. It didn't seem right and upon further investigation turned out she had an overbite, heart murmer and was underweight. Breeder insisted she was in great health and the murmer would go away but I told her nope. She was charging $600 for the pup. BUT I think we found a great breeder. Home raised pups, therapy dogs in their lines which I LOVE. Calm temperment. $650 for the dog. She has the light female we're really wanting and she's ready June 26. Taking deposits now. The website is www.oakcrestmerrygolds.com What are your thoughts before I send the deposit though, if you guys wouldn't mind I talked to her at length and saw pics and we are going to pick out a pup, if she's legitimate, next weekend when they're 6 weeks. My dd is so excited and cannot wait. I'd rather wait and get the perfect pup with great temperment then jump into something and almost get snowed with a sick dog, like I was. When I'd asked to see proof of ofa and all the breeder balked and said she had to search for them. This breeder's dogs are all certified and she as paperwork. She's been breeding for years and gaurantees the health, hips, and all. I'm really drawn to the fact that they're home raised and great temperments. We've been searching and searching and I am NOT liking the farm raised goldens left out in the barn with not much human companionship. That's not fair imo. Do you guys prefer home raised goldens? I think they're personalities are completely different vs a farm raised one.


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## nixietink (Apr 3, 2008)

goldenmommytobe said:


> to update I passed. It didn't seem right and upon further investigation turned out she had an overbite, heart murmer and was underweight. Breeder insisted she was in great health and the murmer would go away but I told her nope. She was charging $600 for the pup. BUT I think we found a great breeder. Home raised pups, therapy dogs in their lines which I LOVE. Calm temperment. $650 for the dog. She has the light female we're really wanting and she's ready June 26. Taking deposits now. The website is www.oakcrestmerrygolds.com What are your thoughts before I send the deposit though, if you guys wouldn't mind I talked to her at length and saw pics and we are going to pick out a pup, if she's legitimate, next weekend when they're 6 weeks. My dd is so excited and cannot wait. I'd rather wait and get the perfect pup with great temperment then jump into something and almost get snowed with a sick dog, like I was. When I'd asked to see proof of ofa and all the breeder balked and said she had to search for them. This breeder's dogs are all certified and she as paperwork. She's been breeding for years and gaurantees the health, hips, and all. I'm really drawn to the fact that they're home raised and great temperments. We've been searching and searching and I am NOT liking the farm raised goldens left out in the barn with not much human companionship. That's not fair imo. Do you guys prefer home raised goldens? I think they're personalities are completely different vs a farm raised one.


I didn't even know there was such a thing as farm raised goldens? I would never buy a puppy that wasn't raised in the home.

Where are the clearances for this breeder? I see a ton of dogs, but no registered names to look up clearances. I'm pretty sure they don't do them and they ABSOLUTELY need to be done and VERIFIED. You don't need copies from her, you can look them up online VERY easily. If a breeder has these they are usually posted right on the website...or at least the dog's AKC registered name so you can look them up yourself. 

Plus...does she do anything with her dogs? Conformation, obedience, agility, etc.? Anything to prove they should be bred?


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

That website, unfortunately, tells absolutely nothing about the breeder. Lots of pictures of the dog but no registered names, no AKC numbers, nothing that would allow you to get more information on the dogs -- including verifying their clearances. I do not know anything about this breeder, and can't say for sure whether they are reputable or not, but they're certainly not very forthcoming with information on their website and that makes me uneasy.


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## iansgran (May 29, 2010)

I looked at the site and saw nothing but photos. No clearances, no pedigree, no K9data, of official names. Looks like puppy mill to me. Lots of females, 2 males.


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## desi.n.nutro (Mar 18, 2011)

I'm glad you passed on the first pup even though I hope she finds a good home. You're smart to get advice first. My first Golden was "sold" to me then I learned the hard way what can go wrong. He had a loving home though and lived to 10 with a lot of work and healthcare. My advice is: Now that we can get online and hear from folks who genuinely care, I would listen to all of their advice. Take (and post) lots of pics!


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

I'm having a hard time not getting frustrated here. You keep asking for advice, and you get amazing advice, and then you don't take it. This just looks like another breeder who doesn't take sufficient care with health and temperament. I'm not 100% sure based on the website, but all the current signs point toward that.

You will not save money by trying to skimp on the purchase price. It will simply cost you more money in the long run, and your purchase price will go towards breeding more dogs who suffer.


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## goldenmommytobe (May 27, 2011)

tippykayak- I have talked to the breeder regarding the clearances and other info over the phone and she has told me she would have no problem showing me. I have followed all of your advice but I cannot afford a $1500+ dog and I have already said that. I believe her dogs to be good. I told her about my experience with the puppy and the heart murmer and she assured me her dogs don't have any and gave me her vet's number for reference. I did call and speak with him and asked him about the health and examinations of the puppies and he reassured me. Yes her website doesn't have a lot of information but I have spoken with her twice in depth and I do feel comfortable with her and her dogs. She's told me if my vet finds anything wrong healthwise with the pup she will either give me another one or refund my money. I don't know what else I can ask for? I was very drawn to the fact that some of her dogs have been therapy dogs, which to me speaks for wonderful temperment, which besides health is first and foremost for me. and yes, in my quest to find a golden I have come across some of the WORST byb's. I've seen puppies and dogs kept in kennels or pens caked with feces and urine all over them. They stank. It was so sad. One guy we visited just lifted the hose up and the dogs cowered and ran. to me that's abuse. terrible way to treat and animal. So if this breeder isn't good please tell me what more I'm needing to look for, besides more expensive dog. She has promised to show me the clearances and been very open and honest regarding her pups. what more am I missing?They are akc registered as well.


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## nixietink (Apr 3, 2008)

goldenmommytobe said:


> tippykayak- I have talked to the breeder regarding the clearances and other info over the phone and she has told me she would have no problem showing me. I have followed all of your advice but I cannot afford a $1500+ dog and I have already said that. I believe her dogs to be good. I told her about my experience with the puppy and the heart murmer and she assured me her dogs don't have any and gave me her vet's number for reference. I did call and speak with him and asked him about the health and examinations of the puppies and he reassured me. Yes her website doesn't have a lot of information but I have spoken with her twice in depth and I do feel comfortable with her and her dogs. She's told me if my vet finds anything wrong healthwise with the pup she will either give me another one or refund my money. I don't know what else I can ask for? I was very drawn to the fact that some of her dogs have been therapy dogs, which to me speaks for wonderful temperment, which besides health is first and foremost for me. and yes, in my quest to find a golden I have come across some of the WORST byb's. I've seen puppies and dogs kept in kennels or pens caked with feces and urine all over them. They stank. It was so sad. One guy we visited just lifted the hose up and the dogs cowered and ran. to me that's abuse. terrible way to treat and animal. So if this breeder isn't good please tell me what more I'm needing to look for, besides more expensive dog. She has promised to show me the clearances and been very open and honest regarding her pups. what more am I missing?They are akc registered as well.


Please, please do not take the breeder's word. Ask for the sire and dam's AKC registered name or AKC number and look up clearances BEFORE you purchase the puppy. 

Btw, all good breeders breed for health and temperament first.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

goldenmommytobe said:


> tippykayak- I have talked to the breeder regarding the clearances and other info over the phone and she has told me she would have no problem showing me. I have followed all of your advice but I cannot afford a $1500+ dog and I have already said that. I believe her dogs to be good. I told her about my experience with the puppy and the heart murmer and she assured me her dogs don't have any and gave me her vet's number for reference. I did call and speak with him and asked him about the health and examinations of the puppies and he reassured me. Yes her website doesn't have a lot of information but I have spoken with her twice in depth and I do feel comfortable with her and her dogs. She's told me if my vet finds anything wrong healthwise with the pup she will either give me another one or refund my money. I don't know what else I can ask for?


You can ask for registered names and/or proof of full clearances. And as I've said before, you don't need to spend $1500 (I've never spent anywhere near that), and the extra money that you do end up spending pays for itself in the long run. If your puppy ends up having problems, a refund won't come anywhere near covering the cost.

You cannot tell in a physical exam of puppies whether they'll turn out to have heart, eye, hip, or elbow problems. You must clear the parents so you can create the absolute lowest possible chance of these problems. A vet exam is important, but it's not enough.



goldenmommytobe said:


> I was very drawn to the fact that some of her dogs have been therapy dogs, which to me speaks for wonderful temperment, which besides health is first and foremost for me. and yes, in my quest to find a golden I have come across some of the WORST byb's. I've seen puppies and dogs kept in kennels or pens caked with feces and urine all over them. They stank. It was so sad. One guy we visited just lifted the hose up and the dogs cowered and ran. to me that's abuse. terrible way to treat and animal. So if this breeder isn't good please tell me what more I'm needing to look for, besides more expensive dog. She has promised to show me the clearances and been very open and honest regarding her pups. what more am I missing?They are akc registered as well.


Unfortunately, some bad high volume breeders donate their dogs to service organizations or lie about it, so that by itself doesn't say enough. 

If the parents do end up having complete clearances, then I'd say you've met the bare minimum requirements of a decent breeder. But you have to verify that independently by getting the parents' registered names and/or AKC numbers. The breeder does not have to find any paperwork. With the names or numbers you can look the dogs up yourself.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

Please ask to see the clearance certificates. I looked at the OFA website and all the Merrygold Goldens listed were from the Merrygold kennel in Ohio. She may only have dogs that do not carry the Merrygold prefix, but she says that she has been breeding since 1990 so I would think her she would have produced dogs with her kennel name.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

A lot of less than reputable breeders will assure you that they have clearances, but will have to find them and show them to you when you come to visit. When you visit, you see the puppies first and only after you have fallen for the adorable puppies will you find that the clearances either don't exist, or they are from their own veterinarian and are not real clearances at all, or they are incomplete. You either walk away from the cute puppies (with your own kids crying and upset) or end buying one under pressure. Either way, not a good situation.

To save yourself a lot of heartache, ask for the clearances in advance. Since hips and elbows are almost always OFA, they are easily verified by you on Orthopedic Foundation for Animals

I include a link to clearances in my emails to prospective puppy buyers, so that they can check them out themselves, and include scanned copies in the email, if eyes and heart are not entered into the OFA databse.


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

I think youre missing the point....you should not be required to call her vet...you should be able to look on OFA and 'see' the clearance info yourself...
Many murmurs don't show up until the pups are much older then 6 weeks...some of those will go away on their own...but some will become much more serious...which is why the clearance _on the parents_ is so important...
...and those clearances should be done by a cardiologist not a local vet....and the results posted in a verifiable database....



goldenmommytobe said:


> I told her about my experience with the puppy and the heart murmer and she assured me her dogs don't have any and *gave me her vet's number for reference*. I did call and speak with him and asked him about the health and *examinations of the puppies* and he reassured me.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

I'm really going to stick my neck out. In addition to not posting registered names, and not even suggesting that they utilize, OFA, etc, those dogs in all those photos do not look stucturally sound - frankly, their quality is marginal, at best.

If you are truly looking for a good dog, well bred with a strong genetic health history, it will take some time. Do your homework, actually _take _the good advice you find here, and get on a wait list with a *good *breeder. Trust me, it's worth the wait on many levels. Instant gratification often ends up as being a regret later...


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

To be honest if you cannot afford $1000-1500 for a dog upfront you cannot afford a dog. The purchase price is nothing compared to what you'll pay in vet fees and training and so forth, ESPRCIALLY if you get a "cheap" dog. 

My advice, start looking for a dog once you're financially stable. You don't have to be rich but you have to have enough room in your finances to purchase a dog for $1000 which will probably get you not only a quality animal but also one that is ethically bred.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

I am guessing if this breeder has to "show" you the clearances, they are prelims at best. I could give you the registered name of any bitch I have ever bred and you will find her easily on Orthopedic Foundation for Animals... Unfortunately, you do get what you pay for.


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## goldenmommytobe (May 27, 2011)

thank you. What do you mean by not structurally sound? I thought the way they looked looked fine. Again I must be missing something. Thanks!


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Using Bart as an example, he has a straight shoulder and a straight rear(no shoulder layback or no rear angulation). He has very short upper arm which contributes to the straight shoulder. His rear is higher than his front end. A golden retriever topline should be straight... his has a "dip". Me, I like to see nice stacked photos amidst the "candids".
Tori has similar issues. The rest of the dogs are more of the same.


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

Sally's Mom said:


> Using Bart as an example, he has a straight shoulder and a straight rear(no shoulder layback or no rear angulation). He has very short upper arm which contributes to the straight shoulder. His rear is higher than his front end. A golden retriever topline should be straight... his has a "dip". Me, I like to see nice stacked photos amidst the "candids".
> Tori has similar issues. The rest of the dogs are more of the same.


the next point should be why is all of this important??? 

because a cheap dog that is not structurally sound will cost you more when you have to surgically repair orthopedic injuries and other medical issues....


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

goldenmommytobe said:


> thank you. What do you mean by not structurally sound? I thought the way they looked looked fine. Again I must be missing something. Thanks!


What they mean is that they see from the photos that the dogs' proportions aren't ideal. The length of the major bones and the angles of the important joints aren't quite the way they should be, so the dog isn't going to move quite properly. You may think that it doesn't really matter for "just a pet" dog, but a dog who's not structurally sound is much more prone to joint and bone problems that will prevent him from having a long, healthy life.

That's one of the main reasons you want a hobby breeder who competes either in show (where dogs are judged directly on their structure) or in a sport like agility, field, or obedience (where a dog has to be well put together in order to succeed in the tasks).

The two people who have commented specifically on these dogs so far are long, long time breeders who really know what they're talking about, and one of them (Sally's Mom) is also a veterinarian. Please listen.

Also, I hope you don't feel I'm bullying you here. I'd hate to come off like that. It's just that my BYB dog when I was a kid was my best friend. He had shoulder surgery when he was about 3 because he became lame (poor structure), and he died at 7 from cancer. I fell in love my with dog when I was 7, slept on the floor with him some afternoons, played in the yard with him, went on vacation to a lakehouse with him every year and had him in the water pretty much all day (everybody else wanted to go outlet shopping, but I liked to swim with the dog more), and had to say goodbye when I was 14.

I want your dog to see your five year old off to college and still have a few good years left to greet that kid when he or she comes home for a visit.


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## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

Official Pit Bull Site of Diane Jessup

Excellent guide to conformation basics. Different breed but same things apply. 

Perhaps some members who live in the OP's area can suggest breeders?

I agree, if it's a matter of $600 holding you back, then wait. Any issue that is more than something simple with the vet is going to cost you about that.

Lana


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## Sophie_Mom (Jan 21, 2009)

Everyone has given great advise....


Also, I hope you called someone to report the abuse/neglect that you witnessed taking place. Horrible.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Sally's Mom said:


> Using Bart as an example, he has a straight shoulder and a straight rear(no shoulder layback or no rear angulation). He has very short upper arm which contributes to the straight shoulder. His rear is higher than his front end. A golden retriever topline should be straight... his has a "dip". Me, I like to see nice stacked photos amidst the "candids".
> Tori has similar issues. The rest of the dogs are more of the same.


 
Toplines on the bitches are sagging - which suggests several issues, not the least being constantly pregnant. 

I also see lots of straight fronts, straight stifles, and cow-hocked rears. Gay tails, as well. All this means that there is no regard for the standard.


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## Usha Maceio Brazil (Apr 21, 2011)

Goldenmommytobe

I am new to this forum, but I have learned so much here. I cannot thank these people enough. They have experience and, most importantly, love and know GRs.


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## Usha Maceio Brazil (Apr 21, 2011)

Oh my! My post sounds horrible (sucking up)...LOL. But I cannot see someone skimping on going straight to the best breeder available. It is at least savings backwards: pay more now, clean conscious later. 

Buying from a so so breeder keeps their business running, and more problem dogs will be born. Here in Brazil people by dogs at pet shops and dog fairs in shopping centers. We are light years behind. Normal people don't even understand what a good breeder is (we have those also BTW). Even my mom fell in love for a dog she bought from a woman who has 80 dogs. I was mad at her for doing so, but she felt she had to rescue at least one dog. Now she is paying the bill, not in health, but in temperament: the dog is hyperactive.


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## wmag (Mar 17, 2011)

I looked for a puppy for a long time. Oakcrest Merrygolds was on my list of breeders. I contacted her and asked about clearences and she told me they did not have health clearences but were vet certified. I do not have any other experience with them but I would just double check on the clearences!


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

wmag said:


> I looked for a puppy for a long time. Oakcrest Merrygolds was on my list of breeders. I contacted her and asked about clearences and she told me they did not have health clearences but were vet certified. I do not have any other experience with them but I would just double check on the clearences!


This is SUCH a common scenario among BYBs and HVBs. They say, "yeah, my dog has clearances" or "I just need to find the paperwork," and what they mean is "my vet said the dog was OK." There MUST be radiographs of hips and elbows that are certified independently (OFA or PennHIP), a cardiac auscultation (listening with a stethoscope) or more by a cardiologist, and a CERF exam. These things are not difficult or particularly expensive, and they are cost-effective tools to prevent the suffering of dogs.


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## goldenmommytobe (May 27, 2011)

wow really wmag. how long ago was this? did you visit her dogs? thx for this info!


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## nixietink (Apr 3, 2008)

goldenmommytobe said:


> wow really wmag. how long ago was this? did you visit her dogs? thx for this info!


Not trying to be mean, but why do you seem suprised? We have all been saying the same thing...


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## wmag (Mar 17, 2011)

I think it was March when I spoke with her. I believe she said she had a litter due at the end of April. I never even bothered to visit because I didn't get a good feeling! When I asked the names of the parents she hesitated and said I think that will be so and so. (Sorry don't remember the names.) It bothered me she wasn't sure which dog was pregnant. But like I said that is the only experience I had with them.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

nixietink said:


> Not trying to be mean, but why do you seem suprised? We have all been saying the same thing...


I'll be mean...

To be truthful, I don't know if the OP behind these threads are even who they say they are. No one can be this completely clueless after all the advise given. Seriously, think about it...she, (or maybe a he just having fun with us), doesn't seem to be "getting it" even after all this time, questions and answers. 

OP, if you are truly "for real", then there's really not much more to say other than...

Good Luck...:uhoh:


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## goldenmommytobe (May 27, 2011)

gee thanks i actually am who i say i am. sorry you think im so stupid.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

goldenmommytobe said:


> sorry you think im so stupid.


Oh...you don't have to be sorry on my account...


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## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

SYZYGY Golden Retrievers - Home Page
Gazn Golden Retrievers, PA Golden Retriever Breeders, Puppies, Pennsylvania

Here's a few sites to get you started on looking. I found others but if there is no registered name and mention of hips, eyes, heart and elbows I don't bother with anything else, I go to the next one.

You can also go to the golden retriever club of America and look for links. Avoid online classifieds and the papers as those are more common with byb's and so on. And yes, if you are going to ignore the advice given and continue to look at and contact breeders who do not clear hips, elbows, eyes and heart then some people are going to shake their head and wonder what's in your coffee. A health certificate and 'the vet said he's healthy' do NOT COUNT!.

Short of finding you a puppy and dropping it on your doorstep, there's not much else to do. 

Good luck.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Here's a pretty good primer on finding a pup from the GRCA Golden Retriever Club of America - All About Goldens I'd advise you to study the material found on this site, and then reread alot of what was said in this thread.


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## CO_Dog_Lover (May 19, 2011)

First off you need to ask to SEE all the health clearances in paper and the parents papers. If she doesn't produce them, turn around and RUN.


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## puddinhd58 (Jan 15, 2009)

If you have $650.00 to spend on a poorly bred dog with no clearances, surely you can find a reputable breeder and save another few hundred.... 

Also, you said you were glad that these puppies were "house raised"??? Does this person keep all 9-10 dogs in her house, or are does she just bring the puppies in the house? 

This one looks like a really bad choice too.... If I were you, I would really take the advice you have been given.


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## goldenmommytobe (May 27, 2011)

thank you. I am taking the advice I've been given. That is why I keep coming here to ask opinions. I will not be putting a deposit down on a dog with this breeder. I guess what I hope to find is a hobby breeder with 1-2 dogs who does not necessarily have the father on site but has all the clearances and healthy dogs and does keep the dogs in her house or at least well socialized. Like I said, there seems to be a HUGE difference between dogs kept in kennels caked with poop and uriine and God knows what else vs breeder, even a backyard breeder, who lovingly cares for her dogs and puppies and makes sure they are well socialized, maybe has even started potty training and has only 1 litter at a time.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

If you give us a location, we can most likely give some breeders to look into.


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## Jamm (Mar 28, 2010)

just paying the bare minimum of $600 for a pup from a BYB or a mill or something will cost you SO much more in the long run. Health and possibly the personality of the dog you bought. A GOOD breeder is worth the extra cost up front. Trust ALL of these wonderful people that are pointing you in the RIGHT direction. If you post your location people will be able to find you a breeder who has ALL the rights.


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## iansgran (May 29, 2010)

Yes, tell us where you are and I bet someone can find you a good breeder or rescue.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

This is our puppy buyers fact checker 
http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...er-puppy/22440-puppy-buyers-fact-checker.html

And the 

Golden Retriever Club of America's website on what to look for in a breeder. 
Golden Retriever Club of America - All About Goldens
Both have links on what to look for in a reputable breeder, what clearances look like, what the sites are for clearances, what clearances should be done, red flags in breeders. 

I understand looking for a breeder is hard and can be overwhelming. Especially when you dont know what to look for or what the terms are. Plus alot of these "breeders" know what to say to someone what doesnt know all about the clearances or what to look for and say all the right things to get someone to purchase their dogs. They have years of experience in doing it. Especially when people have stars in their eyes with the cute little puppies. 

This forum can help, I hope we can remember not everyone knows what clearances are, or what the OFA is, or what structurally sound looks like. I know I am still learning from the forum and I have been here for years. Like toplines sagging can mean constantly pregnant. Did not know that but it makes sense. Yes there may be some questions by the member on particular breeders but it doesnt mean she is going with that breeder she is just getting verification from someone that actually got personal info from that breeder that clearances werent done. Questions that may help someone else down the road. 
To help we can give names of some good breeders that give the clearances. 

Depending on where you live, the cost of the dog might not be out of line for a well bred dog. But if they are alittle more expensive, saving up a couple of months wouldnt be too bad if it helps you save from having problems in the future. Then purchase pet insurance so you can save on expenses that might come up in the future.


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## goldenmommytobe (May 27, 2011)

i'm in md. thx! But around here breeders are $1500-$4400 I've seen advertised.


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## nixietink (Apr 3, 2008)

If I lived in MD, I would be going here for a puppy

Delmarva Golden Retrievers


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## inge (Sep 20, 2009)

4400??? Are those dogs made of real gold?


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

You could get a top notch pupper in that area for 1500. I would LOVE to some day have one of Sue Rocco's dogs..... delmarvagoldens.com I'm sure there are many others here who can add to that.... and no where near $4000!!!!!


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## goldenmommytobe (May 27, 2011)

inge said:


> 4400??? Are those dogs made of real gold?


 
lol seriously I saw some for 4400 about an hr away.


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## goldenmommytobe (May 27, 2011)

yes but then we're back to the who will let me buy one for my family with 5 kids, single mom, fenced yard, works from home but will be doing this by myself. I would spend $1500 and save for the pup if I KNEW I could get one of her dogs but chances are not good. People judge me all the time simply because I'm a single mother of 5 kids.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Delmarva would be a wonderful breeder to get a dog from. Maybe you could at least have a conversation with her, it can't hurt to talk to them.


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

goldenmommytobe said:


> yes but then we're back to the who will let me buy one for my family with 5 kids, single mom, fenced yard, works from home but will be doing this by myself. I would spend $1500 and save for the pup if I KNEW I could get one of her dogs but chances are not good. People judge me all the time simply because I'm a single mother of 5 kids.


I don't think people are judging you when they are hesitant to give you a puppy as a single mom with five kids. I think they are being realistic, knowing how much work a puppy and 5 kids can be. They just want to make sure the pup doesn't get lost in the crowd or get sent back to them because it is more work than you expected.
Good Luck in your search. Take your time and make a wise choice. It will save you in the long run....


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## aerolor (May 27, 2011)

I would ask to see documentation for the health checks done on the parents. Also, if you have a copy of the pedigree, it should be possible to check back to see if the relatives have been tested for - at least hips and eyes - I would think there is a breed database as we have in the UK. It is possible that one parent or both parents are not registered with the AKC and if so the pups cannot be registered. That may be what is meant by "an illegal litter". Anyone can make and give you a pedigree for any pup they are selling, but unless the parents and relatives are registered you cannot rely on the information. If the pup and parents are not registered then the cost of the pup should be considerably lower than a registerable one. What is most important is the health of the pup and if you decide to take it then I would certainly get your vet to check it over for you and make sure the seller knows that the sale will be subject to your vet's health check being satisfactory.


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## nixietink (Apr 3, 2008)

goldenmommytobe said:


> yes but then we're back to the who will let me buy one for my family with 5 kids, single mom, fenced yard, works from home but will be doing this by myself. I would spend $1500 and save for the pup if I KNEW I could get one of her dogs but chances are not good. People judge me all the time simply because I'm a single mother of 5 kids.


This isn't a fair assumption. You need to actually have a conversation with the breeder before you can say this. Give Vern and Sue over at Delmarva a call, tell them about your situation, and see what they say. It NEVER hurts to ask.


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## el8 (May 26, 2011)

goldenmommytobe:

Jan at Stormy Point Goldens (http://www.stormypointgoldens.com) has a litter available. All their dogs appear to be cleared, seem to have good lines.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

If you go with a breeder who doesn't care about your family situation, you'll have a breeder who doesn't care about the dogs. It's not a solution. Your solution is to build a relationship and convince a great breeder that your situation is good, even though it doesn't look good on paper.


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## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

The breeder's concern is 'would a puppy get lost in the shuffle' so prove you're not going to do that and bring up your 'plan of action' to confirm that you aren't going to do that. Maybe the kid's dad has them every other weekend and can take them on puppy class night for you, maybe the youngest can go to playschool and you can train puppy then for example. Show that you can do things besides deal with the kids (either because they are well behaved or you can get a sitter and time away from them) and ask lots of good questions and you should be fine.

"do you have a puppy NOW" and 'can I just email because the kids can't be quiet' are not good questions FYI. 

Hang in there, not easy, I know.


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

Yes she should build a relationship etc etc but she doesn't want to wait.... instant gratification. She doesn't want to pay for more than a backyard bred puppy and she wants it now. You can imagine what a reputable breeder is going to think of that.... 

shoot I know what I think of that and I have let puppies go for less to the right home....


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## goldenmommytobe (May 27, 2011)

no I am willing to wait. At this point I just feel overwhelmed with all the info out there and figuring out which puppy from where is best. Thanks for the recommendations.


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## momtoMax (Apr 21, 2009)

Honestly, the thing I think about when I think single mom 5 kids, can you really afford the care this dog is going to need? I am a single mom of 1, so hats off to you but I think that is going to be the only huge concern a breeder might worry about. If you can prove that you can afford the care this dog will need in the future (that includes extra for emergency care) I don't think you'll have anything blocking your way when it comes to a more careful breeder. 

If any of your kids are infants or under 3 years old, I'd maybe put off getting a golden puppy until they are older. These pups are land sharks and will leave painful teeth marks on everyone in your household if you're not on top of the pup all the time (even then, you'll only spare your littlest ones.) It's not something you can get mad about - they are just playing rough and need a lot of time to learn how to play nice and usually by the time they start losing their baby teeth, they still don't have that down.


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## OriJames (Jan 23, 2009)

I too am a little (understatement) concerned even as a non-breeder that if you feel you could have only afforded a puppy for $600 with 5 kids, how are you going to be in an emergency situation. I mean, saving for a health cleared puppy with all the trimmings is one thing. However, in the long-term you need to be dilligent. 

I'm raising two Goldens by myself and I'm on the pension. I have to get my Ori an X-Ray for his hips next week which is costing me $400 alone. Not including the consultation, nor possibilty that if he has Hip Dysplasia, life-long treatment and management costs. All that aside, premium foods are needed for the health and nutrition that a growing puppy REALLY needs and there is always unforseen circumstances. If an emergency comes up in your family and you have to travel in a short planning time, can you afford to find a boarding kennel if you're unable to take the puppy? If he/she injures himself and needs an X-ray, ultrasound, etc. can you afford it within that next 20 minutes? 

If you're struggling to find an extra $400-$600 to find the right puppy, how would you cope with finding the same ammount within a week of raising five children on top of it all? 

The fact you have five children isn't what I'd be concerned about. My best girlfriend raises 7 children and they have two dogs in their household, but there's three adult incomes coming into it to make it managable. What concerns me is if finding an extra $500 or so for a 99% healthy and sound puppy is a struggle, how will you deal when the faeces REALLY hit the proverbial fan in that puppy/dog's life? 

It WILL happen at some point where you will have to fork out almost a $1000 dollars for him/her in one short timeframe and you will need to have it THEN when it happens. No saving, no deciding over it, and no time to waste. Puppies and dogs will swallow the most shocking things and it becomes a war-zone trying to rush them to the vet on time. 

We've had members here who's dogs have swallowed broken off knife-tips and cloths and other foreign objects to the point of obstruction and emergency surgeries. I myself had to take my Ori to the vet 5 times over a course of one week because he found a dead bird in the backyard and ate it. In the space of a month he injured his leg AND his back on two seperate occasions and it cost me $800 not including further anti-biotics.

Honestly, I'm VERY concerned. If money isn't something you can sacrifice for making sure health issues are as limited as possible in the long-run, how on Earth are you going to afford a real emergency that you otherwise could NOT prevent with a few VERY needed clearances and a few hundred dollars for a healthy, happy living creature's life. 

I really do wonder sometimes if some people think a dog is just as easy-looking s it looks in the movies. Like it only needs food, water, and hugs to survive and be happy. I WISH it was that easy in the movies. I hate seeing my babies sick, but no matter the cost, I'd sacrifice it to have them back to normal. Unfortunately, some people I find really don't understand the concept of how much money alone goes into it that's not the "fun" part. They're not shoes. You can't just pick a "cheap" one off the shelf and expect it'll last as long and as well as a pair of Nikes. Yes, puppies can be expensive, but an extra few bucks (to me) almost assures you that you'll have LESS reason to fork out further thousands for the rest of it's life. 

I don't have pedigree dogs. However I do have their clearances, health, and parental lineage. The only reasons they're not registered is because they're limited but I do know their lines and I keep in contact with the breeders even now. In fact, when I went looking for Jasmine, they were the first ones I called, and I was in luck because she was due to be born in only a few weeks. Do they have any major issues? No, but not everyone is that lucky. However, if they were to become ill suddenly, or have long-lasting issues I know I'd be able to take care of them financially because I made sure that if I could afford to find breeders that cared, I could afford to care for them for the rest of their lives. 

My long drawn out point is: if you're stuck on finding an extra $500 to ensure the present health of that pup, you're going to be extremely heartbroken when he/she suddenly needs an operation for up to $2000 in one weekend. Think about this seriously. This is another creature's life. It's a responsibility and a privilege, NOT an everyday right.

I apologize to the other members for this being so long, but I had to add my opinion in. This really worries me.


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## Jax's Mom (Oct 16, 2009)

I dont want to start a argument , BUT the above post about how some breeders would be hestitant to sell to her is similar to the some of the Golden rescues I have contacted in the past. They can sometimes establish rigid rules that many percieve to be "hoytie toytie". Now I am sure there are arguments for both sides of this coin...I know...but to the individual turned down, it does NOT feel good, especially one with altruistic motives. AND this is how the backyard breeder profits. I ended up gong the rescue route from less rigid rescues. After all, my Boone would have been put down if I didnt adopt him...BUT you can see how the backyard breeder will never be extinguished based on the above. JUST MY 2 CENTS....

*pls note that I am NOT in favor of backyard breeders, QUITE THE CONTRARY...but I also have a hard time with some of the rules and rigidity of certain breeders/rescues.


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## OriJames (Jan 23, 2009)

I honestly wasn't meaning to some across as that, JM. I apologise if I did. I was merely stating my own concerns and wasn't trying to pass judgement at all. I was just on the fence and was trying to explain to the OP that for her own knowledge, it would be best to be prepared because those issues do come up. I'm in no way meaning to imply she wouldn't be a good provider for a puppy only that financial struggles will come up.

I've had my own financial struggles when emergenices arise and it's really not fun to have been in such unfoseen debt that people I've run to for help shrug their shoulders and just expect me to watch Ori in pain or illness when he's been sick. Goodness knows where that could have led to if I couldn't pull myself out of it.

I only meant that without a confident financial plan in place for the long-term and "what if" situations, it can be extremely tough. I sincerely apologize if I sounded fussy, it really wasn't my intention.


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

Jax's Mom said:


> I dont want to start a argument , BUT the above post about how some breeders would be hestitant to sell to her is similar to the some of the Golden rescues I have contacted in the past. They can sometimes establish rigid rules that many percieve to be "hoytie toytie". Now I am sure there are arguments for both sides of this coin...I know...but to the individual turned down, it does NOT feel good, especially one with altruistic motives. AND this is how the backyard breeder profits. I ended up gong the rescue route from less rigid rescues. After all, my Boone would have been put down if I didnt adopt him...BUT you can see how the backyard breeder will never be extinguished based on the above. JUST MY 2 CENTS....
> 
> *pls note that I am NOT in favor of backyard breeders, QUITE THE CONTRARY...but I also have a hard time with some of the rules and rigidity of certain breeders/rescues.


I agree with you totally... a hundred percent and I have mixed emotions about backyard breeders who do everything they should but show... because honestly most responsible reputable breeders don't produce enough dogs to provide to everyone who wants one... especially those who are less desirable like the original poster... 

that having been said 

MY RESPONSIBILITY is to the puppy that I have had a hand in producing. I honestly don't care about whether someone gets a puppy or doesn't get a puppy as long as I find the absolute best homes that I can for the pups that I produce. That is honestly all I care about. 

I am sorry she is sad, I am sorry that reputable breeders won't sell to an instant gratification person with five young children (and honestly to me it wouldn't matter if she were married or not, five young kids is a no starter for me) My responsibility is to the puppy and thats it... thats all I care about and if people don't like me because of that, thats fine.... whatever.... 

I am not so sure that there isn't a place for volume breeders.... as long as they do what they need to do clearance wise and look out for the interest of the puppy, it would require a change in attitude amongst them... because the reality is that I and all my friends and all the good breeders in the northeast or east coast or shoot all of us can't possible produce enough puppies to satisfy the need its a mess 

just my two cents


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## gfoley00 (Jun 13, 2011)

*Oakcrest merrygolds review*

My wife and I purchased our 2 goldens from Oakcrest Merrygolds last March (when they were born). 

I will agree with some of the reviews that she was unsure about the names of the mothers...she actually confused us with the mother of our dogs, but in the end gave us the AKC forms with the correct mother.

Anyhow, besides that minor blip, our goldens are AWESOME!!! When we went up to meet the breeder in Myersville, PA (about 1.5-2 hrs from me in south jersey) she was very accomodating in allowing us to see all of the puppies as well as all of her dogs...We actually just wanted to see them before we made any decisions...well needless to say, we went up to see the puppies with intention of buying 1 and instead bought 2...I thought to myself while I was there, that just buying 1 would not allow her to have a companion, so luckily she had not sold all of the females and we were able to purchase a second one...Also, since we were the first to meet the dogs, we were allowed to pick the 2 we wanted (I attached some pictures)

One other issue we had was getting the AKC papers...only reason was that I think she was afraid we would try to breed the dogs and she only wanted to give them to us AFTER we got the spayed (however, she sent them to us and our dogs are AKC Certified...SOOOOOOOOOO she is a legitimate breeder and these are PURE BRED goldens).

The price was also unbelievable at around $750/dog.

So if anyone has any questions, please feel free to ask...she raises the puppies in a barn which is awesome because they came to our house POTTY-TRAINED...WOOHOO!!!


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## wmag (Mar 17, 2011)

Your dogs are adorable. It wasn't a question of being a purebred golden or a legitimate breeder. Don't want to sound like a jerk but the question was if the parents had eye, heart, hip, and elbow clearences. When I spoke with her she told me they were only vet checked.


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## Jax's Mom (Oct 16, 2009)

OMG those pups are wayyyy too cute!!


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## luvgolds (May 20, 2009)

*Not everyone was pleased*



gfoley00 said:


> My wife and I purchased our 2 goldens from Oakcrest Merrygolds last March (when they were born).
> 
> I will agree with some of the reviews that she was unsure about the names of the mothers...she actually confused us with the mother of our dogs, but in the end gave us the AKC forms with the correct mother.
> 
> ...


I just came across this posting, and I think it's important to note that not everyone on this forum who purchased from Oakcrest Merrygolds was pleased with the operation (which is what it is) or would recommend them.

I highly recommend doing a forum search for anyone interested in purchasing from that operation. 

The dogs are AKC registered, yes, but no certifications. Also, the owner of the operation made similar mistakes with us as mentioned above - I won't get into all the detail, but let's just say once the check is signed and you pick up your puppy your relationship with the breeder is done, as she's onto the next litters/purchasers. 

If yours came home potty-trained then you got lucky, because they are kept in a pen with straw where they can go when they want where they want.


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

Not knowing who the parents are pretty much says it all. The goal us puppy production, not carefully researched and planned breedings. Eek!


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## gfoley00 (Jun 13, 2011)

*Oakcrest Merrygolds*

I would agree that not knowing the parents is totally WRONG...but in all honesty, I think if you spoke to the breeder, you would understand (IMHO). She was soooooo laid back (Mennonite I believe) and actually I found that they were well taken care of...But maybe she just forgot the name of the mother (people do have memory loss or mistake a name...lol) Granted, if this is what is considered a puppy mill (or close to it), then maybe we should look elsewhere next time...We researched some places around south jersey and came across her site and then just met with her and felt comfortable purchasing from here...Again, this was the first time I ever purchased a dog in my life, so I am unexperienced...

Also - if they are AKC certified, doesn't that mean that the breeder is recognized? We have the AKC registration for both of our dogs...(not really sure on this)

In the end though, I can say I am happy with our dogs...(minus Nova (the white one) waking up at 5am everyday...lol)


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

gfoley00 said:


> I would agree that not knowing the parents is totally WRONG...but in all honesty, I think if you spoke to the breeder, you would understand (IMHO). She was soooooo laid back (Mennonite I believe) and actually I found that they were well taken care of...Granted, if this is what is considered a puppy mill (or close to it), then maybe we should look elsewhere next time...We researched many places, came across her site and then just met with her and felt comfortable purchasing from here...Again, this was the first time I ever purchased a dog in my life, so I can so I am unexperienced...
> 
> Also - if they are AKC certified, doesn't that mean that the breeder is recognized? We have the AKC registration for both of our dogs...(not really sure on this)
> 
> In the end though, I can say I am happy with our dogs...(minus Nova (the white one) waking up at 5am everyday...lol)


 

There is NO excuse not knowing who the parents of a litter are, religion and temperament of the breeder has nothing to do with it. :doh: The AKC should be notified - DNA testing should occur if the litter was registered.

The AKC doesn't "recognize" a breeder, they are a registry, and if AKC numbers for a male and a female are provided and money sent, they'll register the litter in good faith.

This sort of thing makes me ill.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

gfoley00 said:


> Also - if they are AKC certified, doesn't that mean that the breeder is recognized? We have the AKC registration for both of our dogs...(not really sure on this)


AKC doesn't really certify much about breeding practices. It's primarily a registry to ensure accuracy of ancestry. The AKC registry essentially only states that the parents were registered purebreds. You can be a truly awful breeder who skips clearances, doesn't compete, and even treats your dogs poorly without losing the ability to call your dogs AKC registered.

There's some limited inspections and enforcement the AKC will do, so if a breeder is abusing dogs or incorrectly registering them, the AKC may suspend the breeder or revoke their right to use the AKC for their dogs, but that's usually in extreme situations.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

If a breeder offers registration papers with a puppy and there is a question as to the parentage of the litter, the AKC will demand DNA testing be done. Cheek swabs will be taken on the puppies and the parents. If a breeder has knowingly registered a litter without positively identifying the parents, they will be suspended. (Think Gap View...) If a breeder is not in compliance with the AKC rules of record keeping they will be suspended.
This is a serious matter as it affects the stud book, and future breedings.


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## luvgolds (May 20, 2009)

gfoley00 said:


> In the end though, I can say I am happy with our dogs...(minus Nova (the white one) waking up at 5am everyday...lol)


I just wanted to clarify that I'm happy with my dog - I love my dog to pieces and would not trade him for the world.

I'm not happy with the operation, and after all the researching and reading I've done on this forum since I got him, I would not go back there nor recommend them.


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## vcm5 (Apr 20, 2011)

I just want to say that I know that it is very easy to get carried away at the prospect of a brand new puppy. I just want to say a few things regarding the price of a dog. You are looking to spend about 600 dollars for a dog, while we are advising you to look somewhere in the 1000 to 1500 dollar range, in which it is absolutely possible to find a great breeder. That is at minimum only a 400 dollar difference. And trust me when I say that this is only a drop in the bucket! For example, I have only had my new rescue for one month. I paid next to nothing for him because I rescued him but think about what I have paid thus far (very roughly)...
First vet visit - 200
Basic supplies (new collar, leash, treats, toys, food, etc) - 200
Heartworm preventative for the next year - 120
Frontline plus for the next year - 140
Whipworm medication - 50
Basic obedience - 150
Everything I needed to go along with basic obedience (two new leashes, bait bag, special treats, etc) - 100
Pet insurance - 250

As you can see, it adds up quickly. Obviously not all of those things are mandatory, but remember that that is all in one month! And for an older dog who doesn't need a series of shots and vet visits. You'll have to pay many of these expenses plus getting the dog neutered/spayed which can be around 400 dollars in itself!! Plus a lot of this stuff is annual, like vet visits, heartworm preventative, flea/tick preventative, food and supplies, etc.

And these are just routine costs! Think about emergency costs - emergency vet visits can quickly climb into the thousands, especially on a dog that does not have all its clearances. The way I look at it, you are adding 400 dollars to potentially save thousands down the line, as well as saving pain and suffering for your best friend. And when you look at how much having a dog costs, 400 dollars, like I said, is just a drop in the bucket.

Sorry if this is too long! Just wanted to get my two cents in. I know people may come off a little rough, but its only because they have seen what can happen when these decisions are made poorly, and it is devastating. They really do care about you and want you to make the best decision possible.


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## gfoley00 (Jun 13, 2011)

In the end I am happy with both of my dogs...I understand that people may be upset with the operation of Oakcrest, BUT on the other hand, I have seen from other posts good reviews on puppies from there...Mine are great and they bring me joy, and the dogs are always HAPPY, so no problems there...Now 5 years from now if they have hip/eye/etc issues then I will be upset and may change my opinion, but for right now, they seem healthy and are an absolute joy


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