# May 2013 Field



## hotel4dogs

New month, new thread! 
Now that winter is finally over, well, sort of, in this area we plan to get out and train at least once a week (that being my weekly venture to Dan's).
We went today, hadn't been there in 3 weeks. Had a great time, just worked on marks and blinds on both land and water. 
I think we have some people in hunt tests this coming weekend?

On a very exciting note, I see that AKC is allowing Goldens and Labs to run in Spaniel hunt tests after July 2013 (might be June, not sure). I am VERY excited about that. It's basically upland hunting, which the monster boy just totally loves.


----------



## MillionsofPeaches

Really? I wonder if that would apply to boykin spaniels?? That is my trainers passion and he does a lot with them. I will have to look that up. If so then I'm in luck! 

Kat's been progressing very nicely this week. We began on Monday with initial practicing with doubles. We are also progressing nicely with her fetching. Today we were out in a stick pond with decoys and lots of obstacles. She did great! She sniffed the decoy on the come back but left in and came to me. I was happy. On the harder line she cheated. She squared into a very log and stick area much worse than keeping the line through weeds. but she ended up still holding her duck and made it through to me. The next two times she understood and corrected herself and plowed through the weeds to stay on line. 
She really seems to understand what is expected of her in new situations and it is fun to watch! I also got to practice shooting blanks with the shot gun. I've never shot a gun before so it was neat to learn how to properly handle it! 
its been a super fun week! I love my girls!


----------



## gdgli

I will be working a h8nt test this coming weekend. I wanted to enter it but Buffy is just coming out of heat.

Nice weather today. Can't wait to get to more training.


----------



## hotel4dogs

I think that yes, that does apply to Boykin Spaniels, so you are in total luck! The pro I work with doesn't train spaniels, only pointing dogs and retrievers. But he does run HRC upland, so it should be just a matter of learning a few rule differences.
From just a cursory glance, it appears that HRC upland is much stricter. But that's just at first glance, it might not really be the case.


----------



## MillionsofPeaches

woop! this is great! I love our training group. It is mostly the boykins but there are a few black Labs and field goldens, my goldens, and we even have a toller mixed in!


----------



## gdgli

MillionsofPeaches said:


> woop! this is great! I love our training group. It is mostly the boykins but there are a few black Labs and field goldens, my goldens, and we even have a toller mixed in!


M o P

Lots of Boykins? Where are you?


----------



## MillionsofPeaches

on the ga/sc border. 

Hey what does M o P stand for? You've used it before and I don't know what it means.


----------



## Loisiana

MillionsofPeaches said:


> on the ga/sc border.
> 
> Hey what does M o P stand for? You've used it before and I don't know what it means.


Look at your user name


----------



## MillionsofPeaches

ha ha ha! I'm such a dork!!!


----------



## hotel4dogs

heehee, M o P, you made me laugh.
Although it could have been short for "Marsh Mop", yet another pet name for field goldens!


----------



## Alaska7133

We got our small group out this morning. Fresh snow on the ground and lots more falling. People canceled, but enough of us went to make it fun. 6 goldens and 3 duck Tollers. Only one golden was a field type, the rest were show puppies. So it was fun. One girl just got her grand champion (her dad is Chaos) and she got her JH last year. Her doubles were excellent. My Reilly boy was so good. He just is the happy to retrieve anything and bring it wherever you want. I don't think I would ever have to do a forced fetch with him. He can only do short distances now and we only threw 4 times. He was very patience waiting and popping his jaws. Lucy was a pain the butt. My husband and I need to work with her when no one is around so she has no reason to misbehave. We are looking forward to continuing with her forced fetch training soon. Then she will come around. She just doesn't want a bumper. We couldn't throw birds where we were, so I just put her away. Lucy's show handler doesn't want Lucy to hear the word SIT until after the conformation shows at the end of the month, so I lied about the bird work going on. Birds just make Lucy so happy.


----------



## Loisiana

I'm in Houston for obedience, but 10 miles from the hotel there is an off leash area with a pond in a public park that is for dog training. Had to take advantage of that! Did my own version of decheating drills.


----------



## MillionsofPeaches

Lucy sounds like my Peaches. She was fine (though not a passion like with Katniss) with retrieving until she got a bird. Now she won't retrieve anything but bird. She will go high tail it to a mark, get to the bumper, see it is not a bird and go and sit down next to it or walk away all together) it is really getting frustrating. She never did this before the birds. So we've been on strict no birds for awhile rule. ugh.


----------



## Alaska7133

MOP, we're doing forced fetch now to fix Lucy. Did you have to do forced fetch to get her back on bumpers? What did you do to get her back on bumpers? Lucy does the same thing, usually just walk away when she figures out its a bumper not a bird. She won't even pick it up and drop it.


----------



## sterregold

Second good weekend in a row here. Got out yesterday and today. Breeze is still on her singles regimes, and did a good job on all her marks, working happily with no confusion. Bonnie phenomenal on marks as usual. On Thursday we did some lining work on a couple of small ponds and got into a bit of a control struggle. She does not think she needs help finding the bird! Little Wings is in the "hold" phase getting ready for FF--so her work in the field has not been stellar, as is often the case. There are also just too many neat new smaells for her--she has the attention span of a gnat these days!


----------



## MillionsofPeaches

Peaches is only 6.5 months old right now so I do not want to go straight to force fetch. I agree that might help a lot. 
stacey-right now we are working on psychological negative pressure. I've been throwing bumpers. If she doesn't pick it up then I put her on a stake close by and I take Katniss out to throw bumpers with. Every single time she'll get another turn and she'll retrieve the bumper. 50% of the time she'll retrieve a second bumper. If she doesn't pick it up then she gets no second chance and she'll have to watch.
When it comes to water, ponds, ect she'll retrieve anything! So in that case, I can use her excitement for the water as a punishment of not letting her retrieve if she won't pick up her land bumper. 
She is extremely smart, and extremely stubborn and definitely has a mind of her own.


----------



## Claudia M

this is hear-say - I have been pretty busy at the office and DH has been taking Rose out for training. He started doubles with her and she seems like she is looking at the second bumper while bringing in the first one. Her speed has slowed down as well while retrieving the bumpers but not while going after them. I wonder if she is confused and pondering what she is supposed to do next. I have not seen any of the sessions though.


----------



## gdgli

Got back today from working the weekend at a Hunt Test by Pinelands Retriever Club in New Jersey. I was expecting to maybe see someone from this forum but no luck.

Great event---breakfast snacks, lunch provided for by the club, dinner at the clubhouse, and raffles,50/50, and silent auction. It was quite an event.


----------



## gdgli

Claudia M said:


> this is hear-say - I have been pretty busy at the office and DH has been taking Rose out for training. He started doubles with her and she seems like she is looking at the second bumper while bringing in the first one. Her speed has slowed down as well while retrieving the bumpers but not while going after them. I wonder if she is confused and pondering what she is supposed to do next. I have not seen any of the sessions though.



She is just checking the location. She remembers it is out there.


----------



## Loisiana

Do most dogs hop like bunny rabbits in high cover?


----------



## Claudia M

Loisiana said:


> Do most dogs hop like bunny rabbits in high cover?


LOL - mine hops like a bunny (actually she looks mostly like a donkey) when she is playing hopping sideways all around me. Yesterday when I got home late evening we took her out and she jumped all the way up, licked my glasses and then landed right back down on all four. It was the weirdest thing. I have been told I should do agility with her instead of hunt but I really want to see where her hips end up once she is closer to 2 years old.


----------



## Loisiana

I threw a bumper into some high cover today and Flip didn't mark it really well so he was running around out there and just as I was thinking he looked like a bunny hopping along a real live bunny came hopping out and right past me! Flip obviously didnt notice since he kept looking for the bumper


----------



## hollyk

Claudia M said:


> this is hear-say - I have been pretty busy at the office and DH has been taking Rose out for training. He started doubles with her and she seems like she is looking at the second bumper while bringing in the first one. Her speed has slowed down as well while retrieving the bumpers but not while going after them. I wonder if she is confused and pondering what she is supposed to do next. I have not seen any of the sessions though.





gdgli said:


> She is just checking the location. She remembers it is out there.


Winter does the little head check toward the next mark on her run back. I always like to see it. It is her tell that she remembers where she is going next.


----------



## Swampcollie

Finally got some warm enough weather to get the pups out into the field. Angel enjoyed her first flyers of the season, even though they were pigeons. 

The little guys are really intense! I think we can do something with these.


----------



## hollyk

Swampcollie said:


> Finally got some warm enough weather to get the pups out into the field. Angel enjoyed her first flyers of the season, even though they were pigeons.
> 
> The little guys are really intense! I think we can do something with these.


Woohoo!!!!!!


----------



## sterregold

Claudia M said:


> this is hear-say - I have been pretty busy at the office and DH has been taking Rose out for training. He started doubles with her and she seems like she is looking at the second bumper while bringing in the first one. Her speed has slowed down as well while retrieving the bumpers but not while going after them. I wonder if she is confused and pondering what she is supposed to do next. I have not seen any of the sessions though.


I agree with George--this is actually a good sign--she is acknowledging that she remembers the other mark still out there.


----------



## Claudia M

sterregold said:


> I agree with George--this is actually a good sign--she is acknowledging that she remembers the other mark still out there.


That was what DH was telling me. I was skeptical since I had to pretty much force him into getting Rose let alone training Rose in hunt - I never trained a dog before, he has. 

It is a long story which ended with him burying all his training equipment with our last GR - Troopie. I was able to semi-fix that "issue". Rose seems quite trainable and has lots of energy and enthusiasm; I replenished the library and also the DVD library, I have a collection of at least 10 whistles (until we found the one that DH likes), bumpers, Rose got lots of wings for Xmas and cap-gun.

It was funny watching him couple evenings ago cutting all the strings from the bumpers (Rose recently found out that the string was a great toy to play with) and looking all over the house for his bumper launcher - he was convinced he still had it. 

I still have to work on her cigar holding, she does fine until she gets closer to bringing the bumper back at which point she semi-drops it and catches it back in a cigar hold.


----------



## MarieP

Well, Riot and I went back to FTP after a two week break. I was getting frustrated, so I put it away for a while. I'm not in any hurry, so I figured that a break would help us both. I did some reading and rewatching of some videos, which also helped me have some ideas of how to fix the issues that were cropping up. I also realized that I had forgotten one of my main rules of training that I take from obedience: if the dog is confused, give him the benefit of the doubt and simplify. :doh: So off we went today, and it went much better! Not great, but the best part was that I saw progress. Straighter casts, more drive, and quicker returns by the end of the session. Awesome. 

Tomorrow we are heading out with our training group for some marks, and then off to obedience class. Getting ready for our OB debut in a month!


----------



## hotel4dogs

Swampcollie, that photo is just gorgeous. Makes me grin from ear to ear!


----------



## hotel4dogs

sadly, we had to cancel our lesson with Dan for this week. After Tito's session at the emergency vet Saturday night, it seemed the prudent thing to do.


----------



## Alaska7133

Its hard when you have to miss out on the fun, isn't it? Hope the weather is at least springish down there.


----------



## gdgli

Claudia M

I spoke to a well respected trainer who has trained FC's. He said that he doesn't care if they cigar the bumper. He said he might care if he was training someone else's dog and getting paid for it, they would expect it.


----------



## TrailDogs

gdgli said:


> Got back today from working the weekend at a Hunt Test by Pinelands Retriever Club in New Jersey. I was expecting to maybe see someone from this forum but no luck.
> 
> I was at this test running in Master B. I don't know if you were at that stake. I was running a dark red golden. This was her first Master test, she ran it very well and got her first pass. I think three or four goldens qualified in my group.


----------



## gdgli

I was planting the blind at one point on Saturday at Master B, the blind on the left that brought many dogs past the gun station and into the fire ditch. I was wearing military woodland camo BDU's with a parka in Duckblind Camo. I also manned the gun station on Sunday that threw the flower pot double. And yes, I am the klutz that twice kicked the winger by accident and launched the duck at an inappropriate time.

I remember your dog and am familiar with the pedigree. I had contacted Lee when I first was looking for a pup. Your dog is a nice running dog. I am always looking at the goldens that run.


----------



## MarieP

We did water marks today (and the big dogs in the group did water blinds)!  It had been a while since Riot was in the water, but he did OK. We got our first "no-go" on a mark, and everyone said "hmmmm..." It was weird. Totally not him. I just kind of walked him down to the water and resent him. No problems after that. I learned tons from watching the "big dogs" run their water blinds. It's really interesting to see when stops are made and how casts are done. I think this will really help when I start handling my own dog. 

We also had time to do some yard work. My friend showed me all the (multiple) ways I was doing things wrong. Thankfully, Riot is very forgiving. We certainly have things to work on this week. But, good news, it looks like we are ready to move forward. Time to start working toward the double T.


----------



## gdgli

TrailDogs said:


> gdgli said:
> 
> 
> 
> Got back today from working the weekend at a Hunt Test by Pinelands Retriever Club in New Jersey. I was expecting to maybe see someone from this forum but no luck.
> 
> I was at this test running in Master B. I don't know if you were at that stake. I was running a dark red golden. This was her first Master test, she ran it very well and got her first pass. I think three or four goldens qualified in my group.
> 
> 
> 
> I just checked my notes on the hunt test. I make notes on the goldens. I put a star next to Nixie and wrote "Nice". She did look good.
Click to expand...


----------



## gdgli

I met with my group and started to get the rust off my dog. Checkdown drills because she likes to run long. Steadying drills and I also worked on heeling around distractions. Then it was off to obedience class where Buffy got a compliment from a spectator. "I like Buffy. She looks like she could work all day."


----------



## TrailDogs

gdgli said:


> TrailDogs said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just checked my notes on the hunt test. I make notes on the goldens. I put a star next to Nixie and wrote "Nice". She did look good.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, we did have a good time. We will be at some of the fall Pinelands sessions so will probably see you there with your dog.
Click to expand...


----------



## K9-Design

Hey, I was at Pinelands HT too! Long distance award!!
LOL
Took 5 dogs up to the Lenape GRC specialty this past Friday in Trenton, NJ. What a surprise when I asked them "where's the bathing station and where to I plug in" to which they responded "there is none." OOPS hadn't bathed/groomed Slater in who knows how long.....
Luckily I found a hose and a plug outside one of the buildings....
A wonderful relaxing specialty outside at a large public park, beautiful weather, grass, very relaxed atmosphere, everyone with a popup tent and xpen outside their car. We had a lovely time! Slater was entered in Open dogs. We were first in line out of like 12 dogs. We were the only one the judge picked out to do another down & back when it came time for him to make his cut. We didn't make the cut. Later I asked him why and he said, I loved your dog, the second you walked in the ring that was my Winners Dog, but after the exam I wanted to show you why you wouldn't be in the ribbons that day. (Slater moves very wide coming at you.) Gee thanks judge, trust me this is no big secret to me. Told the judge he has his MH so he can already do what the others are trying to prove they can do by their conformation alone  

Hung out with Hank & Oriana & Brooke. Maybe Hank will post the pictures of Fisher & Oriana. 

Saturday & Sunday we were entered at the Pinelands HT in south Jersey. Stayed at a friend's house on Stone Harbor which is a very touristy rich people town by the shore LOL It was amazing. It was freezing. We took one peek over the dunes and about got blasted back down the street by the wind and said, well maybe not the beach this time around.
The HT was in a very unique landscape, sandy with pines and grass, and the water was a HUGE old spring fed quarry. The water was ELECTRIC BLUE and absolutely stunning! WOW Who knew we had to leave Florida to run a hunt test at the beach?

Anyways I only had Fisher entered, he did super marks the first series, a little (a lot) hinky on the land blind but they called us back. 2nd series was a water double and double blind, the go bird was about 100 yards across a big piece of water into a strong headwind. Fisher popped about 20 yards out and did NOT want to go. What a jerk. I called him in and that was that. After refusing one back cast I wasn't about to get into a fight with him and let him win. Guess who is in for some water force?

Anyhoo now trying to catch up with work....


----------



## Alaska7133

I'm super excited to find a new place to train. We're running out of places to go since Anchorage is pretty well developed. Anchorage is surrounded by state park, military base or the ocean. So we have to either train here in town or drive 50 miles to get outside the park/ocean/base boundaries. The parks are kind of ok for training but not so much since they don't like dead birds and starter pistols. Then you also have the public to contend with. So our training group has been on the hunt for a lot large enough for training, safe for the dogs, close parking, water, etc.

Finally found 9 acre site with no water. But it has a berm down the road side to help keep the dogs in. Parking on site, so no walking. No treed with just grass no brush. The lot is triangular in shape which lends itself well to doubles. The land might be developed next year, but probably not. The owner has given us access anytime we want.

Here's a photo of the lot layout, its the triangle area south of the road. Then I took a photo of the view from the small end of the triangle.

So what do you all think? I wish it had water. There is a path down to the ocean you can see in the lower left hand corner of the photo. So it has some access to water, but it's quite a walk to the ocean across the mud flats.


----------



## hotel4dogs

looks awesome! I see lots of possibilities there!


----------



## gdgli

Where were you, Annie? I didn't see any Florida plates.


----------



## K9-Design

Master A
you must have not looked hard enough


----------



## MillionsofPeaches

that blows my mind that you cannot find a rural area close to you in AK. I just assumed it was all frontier! LOL!


----------



## Alaska7133

Less than 4% of the entire state of Alaska is privately owned. The rest is park or native land. To use parkland you have to get permission. usually that means no starter pistol and no dead fowl. Sometimes we use places without permission. 

We have very little farmland due to our weather. Anchorage had a little, but all is gone now with development. Since we lack private property to develop because of enourmous parks, we have every square inch of private property used up. To find 9 acres undeveloped is pretty unusual. So I jumped on it.

So Alaska is one big park with small dots of private property. A few years ago I picked up a hitch hiker on my way to Seward (hitch hiking is very common here). As we drove down the valley toward Seward, the hitch hiker said, " I'm so happy I got to see this place before it is all gone." I laughed and said, it's all one big park, it will be here as long as we can imagine. 

There are some places to go about 50 miles north of here in the Mar-Su Valley that are private land. But you have to know the land owner and get permission. The last our our dairies shut down last year, so a lot of that land will now lay fallow. which means soon it will be too brushy to use. Up in Fairbanks they have a little but it's a far at about 8 hours away.

So yes we are all frontier, we are just one big park!


----------



## MillionsofPeaches

wow that is so interesting! Thank you for that information! Learn something new everyday...

So we started Peaches on fetching. She is so stubborn and has all the skills, better than some grown dogs, but she is such a "brat" out there. For example, Tuesday, she rocked it and did great. At home she even will get into place by herself from watching other dogs and yesterday evening she was awesome! 
Today. LOL. So the field grass is getting high and she went out to get a mark, a little farther than last time because she seems to enjoy the "hunt" well, she couldn't see it in the tall grasses. She didn't come back and she looked at me and I kind of pointed my head in the direction of the mark. Then she went off hunting and found it. You could tell she was really into looking for it and that. She wagged her tail and was happy she found it. Then it is almost as if she just shrugged her shoulders and said, well, there it is. That was fun. Cya! and she just run off to go explore.
She frustrates me so much. She has this awesome skill set, she understands so much, yet it is all on her terms! It drives me nuts!
So afterwards we started working on hold. she was not happy but decided to do it for a bit. 
Anyone else dealing with a stubborn dog?


----------



## K9-Design

That's not stubborn, it's untrained. Same dog, needs determined handler


----------



## Claudia M

hahaha MoP I prefer to call our Rose a high spirited brat instead of stubborn - same thing.


----------



## MillionsofPeaches

High spirited sounds about right, lol.

Anney-we know she isn't fully trained (obviously, she is only six months!) but if you saw her, you'd agree with her stubbornness. I mean, shoot, I wish I could explain it. Maybe I can get it recorded, lol. Our trainer is pulling out all his tricks. Yesterday we also tried negative pressure with using another dog during a water mark. Peaches LOVES water and got into place, marked and went after it with gusto but after she retrieved it she brought it back to the bank but then kept swimming down the bank and playing with the mark in her mouth. She is trained enough to know this is not acceptable! After we got her back up we wanted her to see how to get rewarded. (not that we haven't taught her this before) So I told her no bird after we lined her up and then we sent an experienced dog out there right past us on the bank. Peaches was pissed! So then when the dog came back and brought the mark back properly she got all this praise. Meanwhile, Peaches would pretend not to watch this (a few feet from her) by looking in the other direction and casually munching on a leaf from the pond grasses next to her. She wasn't going to give us any "satisfaction" of showing that she was mad, jealous, ect. It was so hilarious and obvious what she was doing. 

She is the funniest girl and her antics are entertaining, that's for sure. Oh well, I guess when I finally see her doing it because I told her too it will be satisfying. She is the best dog at home, always been really easy, but she does think she is boss, though, I work constantly to remind her that she is not (like walking through doors first, stuff like that.) She is doing really well in obedience class which I have been working on structured obedience with her since she was about 12 weeks since my older dog was going during that time and I'd work on homework with Katniss and then on a shorter scale with Peaches too. Now, Peaches is in this class and we are really reinenforcing the skills I have already taught her. 

I guess I was just wondering if anyone else's pooch does this too. Don't get me wrong, she is the best dog and I love to laugh at her but man, she can drive me nuts with her "high spiritedness" sometimes! ha!


----------



## hotel4dogs

M o P, have you tried sending her immediately on another mark? Let her know, as she's coming back, that there's another one getting thrown just as soon as she gets back with the one she has? For a lot of dogs, the only reward that's worth having is the chance to do another retrieve (it can be a short one). She needs to learn that the way to get that reward is to get back with the first one.


----------



## Jige

The snow finally left about a week ago and it is warmer now no longer in the 30's which is nice. Both my hunt clubs are starting up training this week. I wont be able to make it to my HRC training as I work until 6:30 and my club is 2hrs away. But I do get to go to my AKC training nights. 

I plan on getting out with Jige tonight going to work with ducks. I was going to stop last night at the club house to get a couple more but I forgot and drove on past remembered when I was 15miles down the road. 
I took Jige to the fair grounds last sunday and discovered piles of hay and straw in the back field. Worked him in those plus some short doubles in the shrubs. 
I think it was ast firday we went out into a big field ( it was cold and windy around 29degrees). We worked on doubles and honors.My sister work on land blinds with her lab. My sons dog ATEM did really well as my son didnt do alot of training March or April he was busy with other things.
It is good to be bak doing what we love.


----------



## MillionsofPeaches

hmmm, hotel, I haven't really tried any of that. I always throw another one right after she comes back but perhaps if she saw me holding a bumper in my hand as she finds her mark, she'll come back to get that bumper? its worth a try! Thanks!


----------



## Claudia M

Right now Rose would not leave my DH's side if she knows he has the bumpers in his pocket. She trots by him until he gets them out. 
I haven't been able to get any more videos because I am stuck in the office; daughter has dance recital this weekend; getting ready to get her driver license in a couple months and have to get more driving experience - always something.

She would still play every now and then but with time it gets better. Rose has a mind of her own and many times her nose precedes her brain.


----------



## MillionsofPeaches

ha ha that is how my other girl, Katniss, is. If I'm holding a bumper she goes berserk! I actually get really angry because she won't even let me walk or move...


----------



## MarieP

Riot and I have been working on extending our distance on the pile. One thing I have learned is that I need to keep a very quick pace. No messing around. He has to run fast out, fast back, and I cast quickly. If he makes a mistake, I stop him, call him back in quickly, and cast again. It has made a big difference in his attitude. I love it. We are almost at 75 yards, which is the longest we can go in our yard, so we will be adding the side piles next week, under the guidance of my trainer. So happy we are having fun again :bowl:


----------



## K9-Design

Hi Marie, great you discovered that, I find a lot of new people go WAYYYYYYYYYYY too slow with casting their dogs and sending at this point, I think they want to get everything right so they slow down and think about it, or maybe they feel their dogs focus better if they wait longer. Instead it grinds the whole process to a halt and the dogs to much better at a quicker pace.


----------



## MarieP

K9-Design said:


> Hi Marie, great you discovered that, I find a lot of new people go WAYYYYYYYYYYY too slow with casting their dogs and sending at this point, I think they want to get everything right so they slow down and think about it, or maybe they feel their dogs focus better if they wait longer. Instead it grinds the whole process to a halt and the dogs to much better at a quicker pace.


Yes! It really has made a great difference. I think the slow pace was making him worried and generally making his work lackluster. I will make sure to take this forward from now.


----------



## hotel4dogs

We snuck out for a short time yesterday afternoon for some training in tick-ville. EWWWW. 
He did a nice job on land, it was pretty simple stuff. The water was a bit harder due to a very strong cross-wind, so the mark had drifted about 15 yards from where it went down (next to the shore line) and that caused him a problem. As did fading with the wind on the water blind. I will say that I was pretty pleased that, when he got out about 10 yards too soon, I was able to call him back into the water and cast him the rest of the way to the blind rather than him staying on land.


----------



## Claudia M

we had a horrible field day yesterday. It started in the morning with her howling after I left with my daughter to the dance rehearsal (concert today). Normally she comes with us to the dance studio but yesterday was different. DH calls me to come home because she was on my bed and howling at the window. He had to leave town and did not want to leave her alone like that. 
Come home and take her to the vet for the monthly weight 69.2 which worries me a bit even though she looks trim. She did excellent though, listened good. Then off to Petco and same there, she was a GR example and everyone commented on how well behaved she is. We walked over to Home depot and same exemplary behavior there. 
Fast forward to evening. She would bring the bumper back, swing into a heel and then take off with it. Put the leash on and threw a couple close ones. Took the leash off again she would swing into a heel and then take off playing. Came inside and did some bumpers off leash - perfect. Went outside and again she misbehaved. 
At that point I am frustrated. She would never pull that behavior with DH. She tried but came back when called with the bumper. Not with me. As long as there is a bumper out there she will tease me until I tell her to sit or lay down. Mom is just a playmate in the back yard. 
I know some talk about dogs not having remorse, I did not say anything or yell yesterday but she knew I was frustrated with her. All evening in the house she was like a Velcro. She even "honored" me by sleeping in my bed and pushing her long OX body into me.
We'll try again after the dance concert with DH this time. She has done so good for him all week. Maybe I am just not cut out for field training.


----------



## hotel4dogs

Oh my, if I had a $ for every time I've said this, I could probably retire. Then I'd have TIME for field training, LOL.



Claudia M said:


> Maybe I am just not cut out for field training.


----------



## hotel4dogs

Whew, that does sound heavy. Do you know how tall she is? The Monster Boy is 23-1/2 inches tall, and weighs 67-68 pounds. My vet thinks that's a little too thin for him, thinks he should weigh 70 pounds, but I like him especially lean because of his activities.



Claudia M said:


> Come home and take her to the vet for the monthly weight 69.2 which worries me a bit even though she looks trim


----------



## gdgli

Claudia M said:


> Fast forward to evening. She would bring the bumper back, swing into a heel and then take off with it. .............Maybe I am just not cut out for field training.


I am going to make you feel much better. Buffy did that to me at a hunt test with a duck. I then went out into the field to get her, I lost her in the cover, and then I hear the judges (from 50 yds. away) yelling to me "She's back at the line". She had cut a big circle in the field and came back to the line while I was still looking for her. And there she was in a perfect sit delivering the bird to the judges.

Don't say you're not cut out for this, just keep at it.


----------



## Jige

Went out with a duck to do some training on friday. Jige has not had a duck since Thanksgiving day. That was the last decent day we had to train with out snow. He really wasnt fond of the duck he would carry it back to about 5ft in front of me then I had to tell him to "hold" he would drop it a couple of times before finishing. I would then make him hold it while my sister and son ran their dogs. The last time he brough it almost all the way back about 2ft in front of me before he dropped it and I had to give the command. I am going to head out in a few minutes to work in the yard with the duck. Tomorrow I plan on stopping and getting 2 more ducks to work with.


----------



## Claudia M

She is tall a little over 24 at the withers. I said the other day that there may have been a great pyr somewhere in the family history. Her parents are not as big/tall as she is.
She is out of standard for a GR female in height and weight; so due to her height, keeping her weight down and trim will be a challenge.


----------



## hotel4dogs

Great photos. She doesn't look heavy, and at a little over 24 inches her weight does sound just about right. Tito is about an inch short, and about 2 pounds lighter, and quite lean.


----------



## Claudia M

I just made her pose and she wasn't quite happy about it especially since we left her all alone during the dance concert. Sorry about the mess in the kitchen - as you can see my floors are still not done - I have only had the floor samples since July last year. On a positive note they have survived a puppy in the house.


----------



## Claudia M

wow wow wow - semi good day - better than yesterday - a bit confused of whom she should take the bumper to. Couple times she left before she was actually sent - I blame DH for taking too long in sending her, while he is the one who always tells me not to push her patience (does that sound like a spousal quarrel  ?). One time instead of heeling to the left she decided to go and sniff around. DH called her back and pointed hhis finher at her asking her "What is wrong with you!" She shrugged down as if saying "I am sorry!" Turns out there was a dead bird right behind the bow dummy (whatever it is call - that's is what him and the boys are practicing bow-hunting with). Still trying to see if FB will upload the video.


----------



## Vhuynh2

Hi I'm new here. 

I thought I'd just share a cute story. I have been working on FF with Molly for several weeks now. We work on it almost every day at the park. After a few retrieves, I was going to throw her a few fun bumpers in the tall grass since she loves to "hunt" them. Well, I accidentally threw it right into the blackberry bush! Molly took off, but I was ready to call it a loss, until I saw her crawling out of the bush with the bumper. Ouch! If it were another dog, I'd think she was making real progress with FF, but Molly is sometimes just stupidly fearless. 


Sent from Petguide.com App


----------



## Alaska7133

Attended my first picnic hunt test yesterday. I only ran Lucy. They split us into 2 groups, the field trial people at senior or above, and the rest of us lower level people. 

In my group we has 2 flat coats, 1 poodle, about 30 goldens, 4 duck Tollers, and I lost count of the labs. A lot of dogs to get through. Each dog got 2 pigeons and 1 duck if they were running singles. with doubles you got 4 birds. Distances you could choose were 50 yd or 75 yd. then you could get back in line for another turn. There were 3 gunners, 2 at 50 yd and 1 at 75 yd. 

Does that sound like a normal test? There was no open water, mostly it's still ice covered. So it was all on land.

Lucy had 2 turns. I ran her on singles. I'm so happy we've been on birds since last October, so I knew what she would do. She did great. Didn't always come back immediately. She went to the blinds to check on the buckets of birds, then came to the line. She marked well and her hold was good. She wasn't distracted by the decoys or other dogs. She was a firecracker headed for the birds everytime. 75 yd or 50 yd didn't matter to her. I'd like to try her on 100 yd now. 

Had to drive all the way out to the Mat-Su Valley. But the day was sunny and warm, I think it was about 55F. Nice day! Hope to do it again.


----------



## Claudia M

General V said:


> Went out with a duck to do some training on friday. Jige has not had a duck since Thanksgiving day. That was the last decent day we had to train with out snow. He really wasnt fond of the duck he would carry it back to about 5ft in front of me then I had to tell him to "hold" he would drop it a couple of times before finishing. I would then make him hold it while my sister and son ran their dogs. The last time he brough it almost all the way back about 2ft in front of me before he dropped it and I had to give the command. I am going to head out in a few minutes to work in the yard with the duck. Tomorrow I plan on stopping and getting 2 more ducks to work with.


No experience of whatsoever - but I bet those duck are pretty hard to hold.


----------



## hotel4dogs

not at all, they're a perfect size and shape for a golden mouth!
Some of the big geese, however, can be pretty challenging.



Claudia M said:


> No experience of whatsoever - but I bet those duck are pretty hard to hold.


----------



## Jige

Yes the frozen ones we used last were hard on him but now this duck is getting a little yucky. I was very pleased with his progress. He was holding it all the way bak to me and sitting plus I made him wait a minute or to before I took it from him. By the end we were doing about 15yrds as I can not throw that far so I would put in a sit/stay walk up the road throw it in the ditch and walk back to send him. I would have liked to have done a few longer marks but I wil wait until my son can help me.


----------



## Jige

Ooops misunderstood. No the ducks are easy for them to carry I think that the issue was I used frozen ducks and chuckers. Those are hard on their teeth.


----------



## Claudia M

Rose still drops the bumpers on her way back. Today she as confused, she wasn;t sure where to bring it to me or DH. I assume that in the excitement she dot a bit ditsy. Her videos are under Rose Bud and are public on FB.


----------



## gdgli

Claudia M said:


> Rose still drops the bumpers on her way back. Today she as confused, she wasn;t sure where to bring it to me or DH. I assume that in the excitement she dot a bit ditsy. Her videos are under Rose Bud and are public on FB.


That will happen. Just let her know what is right.


----------



## hotel4dogs

A lot of dogs don't like the feel of frozen birds on their teeth it seems. And I do think when they're frozen hard they aren't as easy to smell.


----------



## sterregold

Marks in hunt tests can normally be up to 100 yards (and judges have the leeway to go to 125 as well if needed.) Build distance gradually, but before entering a test I generally want my dogs confidently doing marks 150 yards and beyond. I do not want them to get in the mindset that 100 yards is the absolute limit and not make it out far enough to scent the mark. Running longer will also teach them more perseverance which is helpful when terrain en route to the mark is more challenging.



Alaska7133 said:


> Attended my first picnic hunt test yesterday. I only ran Lucy. They split us into 2 groups, the field trial people at senior or above, and the rest of us lower level people.
> 
> In my group we has 2 flat coats, 1 poodle, about 30 goldens, 4 duck Tollers, and I lost count of the labs. A lot of dogs to get through. Each dog got 2 pigeons and 1 duck if they were running singles. with doubles you got 4 birds. Distances you could choose were 50 yd or 75 yd. then you could get back in line for another turn. There were 3 gunners, 2 at 50 yd and 1 at 75 yd.
> 
> Does that sound like a normal test? There was no open water, mostly it's still ice covered. So it was all on land.
> 
> Lucy had 2 turns. I ran her on singles. I'm so happy we've been on birds since last October, so I knew what she would do. She did great. Didn't always come back immediately. She went to the blinds to check on the buckets of birds, then came to the line. She marked well and her hold was good. She wasn't distracted by the decoys or other dogs. She was a firecracker headed for the birds everytime. 75 yd or 50 yd didn't matter to her. I'd like to try her on 100 yd now.
> 
> Had to drive all the way out to the Mat-Su Valley. But the day was sunny and warm, I think it was about 55F. Nice day! Hope to do it again.


----------



## sterregold

hotel4dogs said:


> not at all, they're a perfect size and shape for a golden mouth!
> Some of the big geese, however, can be pretty challenging.


And a bird you might see in a test that more dogs have an issue with is a pheasant. The hens do not have much scent so some dogs do not recognize them as what they are searching for. They also, both hens and roosters, have a very round body which some dogs find difficult to hold, unlike a duck which is more of a flattened oval. We try to mix up species in training so that our dogs will fetch whatever bird happens to be out there--pheasants, male and female, farmed ducks (most here are call ducks which have been euthanized by injection), farm raised birds which have been gassed or shot (as you will get both of those at tests), and hunted birds of a variety of species (as they can have very different scents as well), chukars, and pigeons. Depending on where you are running, you may see some of these variations. Tests in the Canadian Maritimes often use live pigeons for the quarter to flush in our MH test, and may use sea duck on the marks! On the Canadian prairies, most of the clubs have members provide shot birds, and there can be quite a mixed bag of species.


----------



## MarieP

We did water marks again today. Riot did great! Did 5 total, which is more swimming than Riot has ever done at one time. One was slightly cheaty, and I was able to stop him and resend when he ran the bank a bit. He went straight on the second send. We also did one where he had to swim past a point to the mark. He did a perfect line to the bird. I was very proud. One of my training buddies (who has labs) joked that she was glad he was OK with getting his hair wet : 

In other, non-related news, I found a tick trying to bite me, which always makes me paranoid. Now I think every itch I have is a tick. YUCK!!


----------



## Claudia M

LOL - just got a call at the office from DH who said that Rose doesn't need to go to Circus Training tonight because she retrieved one single and 4 doubles with no problems. I bet he is going to try to hide her by the time I get home.


----------



## hotel4dogs

Took Tito out to the cold pond today for the first time this year. Mostly I just let him retrieve bumpers for exercise, but I did do a couple of straight up the shoreline blinds, and I was pleased that I was able to keep him in the water the whole way. Good dog.


----------



## Alaska7133

Barb, don't they just love cold water sometimes? Last Saturday DH took Reilly swimming. The pond was still half ice covered with chunks of ice floating around. He was leaping off the ice layers into the water and swimming around with chunks of ice in his mouth. Silly dogs. I don't know what he's going to do if it gets warm this summer!


----------



## Claudia M

I am still waiting for the weather to warm up a bit before we go in the water.

Side note, Rose was a disaster in Circus training. I had to keep her under some command at all times. Every time she was released she wanted to play. She did every little thing asked of her but the moment I said Alrighty she wanted to play with me sort of like "OK I did it, can we play now!" . 
I know I was late picking her up and taking her to the class, no time to make over her but WOW. Either way too much energy, overly tired or I just have a Bozo pup. Trainer hinted again that Rose can use that energy in agility.


----------



## Jige

Had my first training with the AKC club tonight. There were about 8-9 dogs of course Jige ws the olny golden and the only dog not being e-collard. We set up 2 marks on land one about 130yrds the other was about 70 yrds. The wind OMG the wind it was about 14mph gusting up to 20+ at times. All the dogs had trouble with the long mark they couldnt hear the gun and the bumpers sort of blended in with the birch trees. Jige did well on the second mark but horrible on the first mark. Then we moved over to water we did one land and one water. My boy did really good on both of these. I got of lots of he looks great and good job. YAY


----------



## MillionsofPeaches

yesterday we worked and it was a fun time. On land, Peaches did her little butthead moves but Kat wouldn't pick up the mallard. So we put it in her mouth and told her to hold it. She didn't like that but did it. I was worried she'd freak and shut down but she held it together. She is such a cupcake!
Then, later in the water (stick pond), she got over it and got all her marks with the mallard. I was really proud of her. She hates taking new types of birds but once she has put it in her mouth then she'll have no problem with them later on. The mallard was a hurdle because we don't use them often enough that I could work with her with them. 
Then in the water Peaches retrieved every mark really well and had no issues swimming with the big old mallards. She frustrates us so much, when she does her thing it is so good but if she doesn't feel like it then she won't do it. STUBBORN!


----------



## EvanG

MillionsofPeaches said:


> She frustrates us so much, when she does her thing it is so good but if she doesn't feel like it then she won't do it. STUBBORN!


Nothing personal here. I'm just being honest. That doesn't sound so much like a stubborn dog as it does an under trained one. Is this dog through formal Basics?

EvanG


----------



## MillionsofPeaches

yes, she is young and yes she has been going through obedience training. 

Trust me. She is stubborn. I've not met any pups like her. Super good, obedient and smart. Just a matter of if she feels like doing something or not. You would have to know her to understand what I'm talking about.


----------



## Claudia M

Peaches is 6 months old - right?


----------



## MillionsofPeaches

exactly and she is obviously not up to par at this age. She is just now going through "suggestive fetch training" or however you guys want to put it. LOL. 
I think that will help a lot. I can't really make her fetch if she hasn't learned the command let. 
It is just her personality. The other pups her age are zealous about field work. Peaches is sometimes, sometimes she's not. That is just her. 
But she lives in my house and has a really great, wonderful life. We treat her like a human family member and she has everything a dog could pray for. So in return, if I want to do field work with her a couple times a week, when I'm training with Katniss who lives, breathes, dreams for field training, then by golly, Peaches is just going to have to deal with it. She can do a little work (literally 30 minutues at most when you compile her times out together) just like all the rest of the family members are expected to do.


----------



## MillionsofPeaches

oh and by the way.....if she is in the mood, then she knows all the motions of how to get into place, sit and wait, mark, respond on her call, come back, and hold it to my hand.....

That is if she is in the mood, ha ha. 

If she is not feeling it, then right away we know. She will come over, take off when called and get to the mark. When she gets up to it she sniffs it and wanders off and doesn't care. 
There is no rhyme of reason to the madness.


----------



## sterregold

I would say not so much stubborn as well, also--although she may be stubborn in many ways!--this is really a case of her not understanding it is mandatory yet, because she has not been through formal basics. Some pups comply through sheer biddability and love of the game, and others need to be taught that retrieving is a requirement, not a choice. My Wings is much the same at a very immature one year old. She is just starting her fetch work now so we can get her properly focused, and have the tools to deal with those "I'd rather chase the butterflies" moments...


----------



## MillionsofPeaches

Shelly, that is exactly it! She doesn't think it is mandatory. She is stubborn, there is no doubt about it. But because we haven't enforced rules that we haven't taught then she is definitely smart enough to know that she can do as she pleases. ha ha. 
I am really ok with her, she cracks me up with her sheer will to do whatever she wants. Her time is a coming, ha ha! I just get frustrated sometimes. 

And just a disclaimer. I love my dogs more than my own life. They have changed my life in only good ways since we got them and opened doors to a whole new future for our family. 
So please know that no matter what might come across on the Internet to you, please don't pick me apart in a negative way. (not that I'm saying you, general you, are doing in this post) but I've seen people get totally misinterpreted in forums in general and I do not want anyone to think of me calling her a little butthole is anything but endearing. 

It is just my quirky personality.


----------



## Jige

> (not that I'm saying you, general you, are doing in this post)


Geez for a second when I read this I thought you were talking to ME!!! My forum name is General....I thought "_I didnt even comment on this"....hahaha _

I understand I say stuff like that about my furkids...well even my son but I dont mean anything bad by it. It is my personality. Sometimes it doesnt go over too well. Oh well........on ward and upward!!!


----------



## MillionsofPeaches

ha ha, no, this thread has not gone at all like that. No one has said anything at all. I was just thinking about past things I've read on other forums. I really like this field stuff and this forum is fun to participate in so I wanted you all to know upfront that whatever comes out of my fingers on your end is always with a smile and laugh on this end. 
Sometimes that doesn't always come through on the Internet and I worried you all took my teasing about Peaches as I was seriously pacing and fuming at her over here. LOL


----------



## Claudia M

LOL - I am 'fuming" now. Rose was horrible on doubles today. DH "blamed" it on the Circus training. She did pretty bad this afternoon. I was coming home early since DD was taking an AP/dual enrollment test in history today (so proud of my 10th grade kid) so we decided to give it another try with both of us outside. 
The first double was a complete fiasco; she missed the first bumper and she went for the second one; DH tried to send her back for the first bumper, she did not pay attention at all to see where she was sent. Finally finally she got it with several re-directions. Second one was semi-good. 
If tomorrow will be a repeat of today we'll have to go back to singles only.


----------



## Jige

May I ask how you are setting up your doubles?


----------



## MillionsofPeaches

we're just starting doubles and the way I'm practicing at home is in a 180 line with a mark on each end being tossed and us in the middle. I always call her on the second mark, she can't really see the other one as her back is turned to it at that point. 
Have you tried that yet? Or is she turning herself around and still going after the first mark?


----------



## Claudia M

I toss the marks, DH sends her. I lift first one for her to mark and then toss it to my right. I life the second one up for her to mark and then toss it to my left.
On the first throw she could not find the second one and went straight for the first one. 
On the second throw I repeated the same pattern but threw the first bumper closer to me. On the first throw the bumper ended behind the kennel. 

She seems like she still wants to bring the bumpers back to me, she keeps on slowing down and trying to look back at me. DH said last night that she wasn't quite herself all day long. She did have a quite runny stool last night. We will see.
Either reduce the distance or go back to singles.


----------



## Jige

This is what we did with BaWaaJige. I wasnt sure how to introduce doubles but at training one night Denny did this with me. My son was out in the field where we tossing the singles. Denny was behind me slightly to the right. Andreas tossed the first bumper like Jige would do a single then I turned him( he knows heal really well so I just said heal and we turned 180degrees) Denny then tossed the second bumper. I sent Jige on that one when he looked back at where Andreas was Denny "hey Heyed him" Jige ran out there grab his bumper came back I circled back around so I was facing in the direction I wanted Jige to run next and I sent him on that first bumper. 

I was told that you should offer a "Hey Hey" as soon as you think the dog is going to NOT run straight to the mark you sent them on. You should have extra bumpers so you can twirl one to keep the dog running for the mark. Start out short and work your way up to longer marks.You should only start doubles if your dog is solid on singles and long singles.


----------



## FTGoldens

Claudia M said:


> LOL - I am 'fuming" now. Rose was horrible on doubles today. ...
> The first double was a complete fiasco; she missed the first bumper and she went for the second one; DH tried to send her back for the first bumper, she did not pay attention at all to see where she was sent. Finally finally she got it with several re-directions. Second one was semi-good.
> If tomorrow will be a repeat of today we'll have to go back to singles only.


Be sure to teach the concept of doubles in an area with no cover ... you want pup to see both bumpers from the line. You are teaching the mechanics of doing a double ... making either one a real "mark" is not what you need when teaching the mechanics. Success on the mechanics first. After that, you can start doing other things to help with successfully completing doubles (i.e., fire drill the memory bird, momentum bird, run the memory bird as a single first, etc.).
FTGoldens


----------



## Claudia M

hmm - I am at a distance - 30 yards maybe - I am not good with distances. So I toss the bumpers at my 180 degree but to DH/Rose the bumpers would be at maybe 60 to 70 degrees of each other.
Here is a little video from yesterday. DD could not find the chip to record the entire thing. 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=129919570538280&set=vb.100005607129620&type=2&theater


----------



## MillionsofPeaches

oh and you probably already know this. Only use identical bumpers on the doubles. I did not know this at first and my dog would go to the preferred bumper. 

And the 180 thing will help a lot. Right now we are slightly closing the degrees. But just a little, nothing dramatic.


----------



## EvanG

MillionsofPeaches said:


> yes, she is young and yes she has been going through obedience training.
> 
> Trust me. She is stubborn. I've not met any pups like her. Super good, obedient and smart. Just a matter of if she feels like doing something or not. You would have to know her to understand what I'm talking about.


Okay, we need to sort out terms so we're on the same page. This is a 6 month old dog, which is the usual age for starting formal Basics, not finishing them. Obedience (formalizing it, not just teaching it) is the very first step. So, if she's going through that stage right now, she's far from being "through formal Basics". When I refer to that coursework, here's what I mean.

*The components of Basics in order*​​1) “Here”​2) “Heel & Sit”​3) “Hold”; automatically evolves to Walking “Hold, Heel, Sit”
4) “Fetch”; ear pinch, which evolves into Walking “Fetch” & “Fetch-no-fetch”, e-collar conditioning to “Fetch”
5) Pile work, including Mini-pile, Nine bumper pile; AKA Force to pile
6) 3-handed casting; teaching the 3 basic casts – “Back” and both “Over’s”, including 2-hands _“Back”_
7) Mini tee; includes collar conditioning to all basic commands, transferring to the _go, stop, cast _functions in micro dimension as preparation for the Single tee. *Also includes De-bolting*
8) Single tee
9) Double tee
10) Water tee with Swim-by

A dog that is through formal Basics has been taken thoroughly through all of the above. How are we doing?

EvanG


----------



## MillionsofPeaches

can you get one of your kids to be on the other end? 

It is easier for me and especially Katniss when all I'm focusing on is her in the middle. I have DH and my son on the opposite poles tossing the bumpers in. They are actually off to the side but tossing them onto the imaginary 180 line.

I also first introduced them to Kat on the sidewalk so that I could use the sidewalk as the line guide for me and for my kids to know where to toss the bumpers into. I only started with tosses only ten feet or so away from. It wasn't so much her getting the marks as much as her understanding the motions and the turning and the new words I was using. After that I spread them out much further on the 180 line.


----------



## MillionsofPeaches

Evan, when you say "how are WE doing?" at the end of your post to me that makes you sound belittling to me. If you would like to help me perhaps you can heed the advice of Mark Twain at the bottom of your signature.

"Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that. But the really great ones make you feel that you too can become great." ~ Mark Twain


----------



## Claudia M

MillionsofPeaches said:


> can you get one of your kids to be on the other end?
> 
> It is easier for me and especially Katniss when all I'm focusing on is her in the middle. I have DH and my son on the opposite poles tossing the bumpers in. They are actually off to the side but tossing them onto the imaginary 180 line.
> 
> I also first introduced them to Kat on the sidewalk so that I could use the sidewalk as the line guide for me and for my kids to know where to toss the bumpers into. I only started with tosses only ten feet or so away from. It wasn't so much her getting the marks as much as her understanding the motions and the turning and the new words I was using. After that I spread them out much further on the 180 line.


DH said that that's how he started her on doubles - throwing 180 degrees of himself. 
LOL - don't know if I want to introduce another person in the equation yet. 
She is still trying to come back to me to bring the bumper. I believe that part of her confusion comes from the fact that I throw the bumper and DH releases her but in her mind she is to take the bumper back to the thrower. If he doesn't call her immediately she will run back to me.


----------



## MarieP

Claudia M said:


> hmm - I am at a distance - 30 yards maybe - I am not good with distances. So I toss the bumpers at my 180 degree but to DH/Rose the bumpers would be at maybe 60 to 70 degrees of each other.
> Here is a little video from yesterday. DD could not find the chip to record the entire thing.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=129919570538280&set=vb.100005607129620&type=2&theater



I don't have much to add on the doubles front. But I did notice one thing that you may want to think about. When Rose returns, she is kind of pokey about it. By that, I mean she runs in until about 5-10 feet away (further on the second return). She is not delivering to hand, she is delivering to "around your hand, kinda." I think you need to up your standards some. I would put a tab on her, or a long line, make her move herself into heel. You don't have to be mean about it, just a "hey, come on, get in here," then reinforce it if she is pokey about it. If you allow this kind of behavior now, it is only going to get worse as you work up to harder, more stressful concepts. 

Thanks for sharing the video! I need to take some of Riot...


----------



## EvanG

MillionsofPeaches said:


> Evan, when you say "how are WE doing?" at the end of your post to me that makes you sound belittling to me. If you would like to help me perhaps you can heed the advice of Mark Twain at the bottom of your signature.
> 
> "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that. But the really great ones make you feel that you too can become great." ~ Mark Twain


That's going to be tricky if you're going to take everything I say so personally. All I'm asking is whether this is the course you have embarked on, and how is that progressing.

Something I've said probably a thousand times at my seminars is that "You'll never know what kind of dog you really have until you've trained them." I mean thoroughly trained them because, lacking that, you really have no way of knowing the animal inside.

This has no specific direction toward _you_. It's the same thing I would ask of anyone.

EvanG


----------



## MillionsofPeaches

Evan surely you aren't so smug that you can't see that you sound a bit condescending in your statement to me. She is 6 months old. If I had a 6 month old that was fully trained #10 of your list then I'd have my own TV Show. Surely, you would know how WE are doing on that list. 
Look, you don't know my dog. You've never seen her in action. I believe her to be stubborn based on my experiences with her. Everyone I work with including her breeder and trainer believes her to be stubborn. I just think it is a silly thing to argue with a handler about their dog over the word stubborn when you haven't even met the dog in question nor seen her in action via video. 
If I get through all of this training and she turns out to be some crazy master hunter...well, I will still believe that she is a stubborn dog and this achievement would be not necessarily worth the time I want to invest to make her do this. She just doesn't seem to want to do it.


----------



## Alaska7133

I ask what is your training plan? Evan lists the order of how he trains. What is your plan of action? I'm asking both MOP and Claudia. Are you working on your own or are you in a training group that uses a particular training method? Every pup is different and all need to work on one thing more than another. I am training my first dogs with a tremendous amount of help from the field chair of my GR club. We are following that group's particular methods of training which is a blend of both Evan's method and Connie Cleveland's method. It would be interesting to know what method you subscribe to. I do find that when I train in a vacuum, I end up with less than stellar results. Interaction with other handlers and trainers has been best for me and my dogs. Just curious....


----------



## MillionsofPeaches

I work with a trainer with private lessons, homework and then go to day training with him 2 to 3xs a week for 4 to 6 hours at a time. 
He does both obedience and field. His plan is nearly identical to Evan's. I've gone to a seminar where he has really explained the reasons why he does it the way he does and I really appreciated his logic so that is why I train with him. 
On Wednesday the younger pup goes to a totally different obedience training class as well, hosted by prior obedience judges. Not petsmart obedience. I can't even breath without being corrected in that class, ha ha!!! The 13 month puppy is getting ready to finish the second half of her therapy dog certification, the observations. 
Oh and not to mention that my breeder is extremely active and knowledgable in these areas as well. She has the first champion tracker golden (that is the puppies' great great grandma) in FL and the southeast. She holds seminars on tracking. We are good friends now and she helps me tremendously with all of my decisions on training and will watch me and correct me with obedience as well as field. Shoot, I knew not to use a stick from the time Peaches was ten weeks old! WE've been on bumpers all this time because my breeder has been prepping us for field. 
I do have to say for being a first time dog owner, I am very blessed to have the wonderful resources I do in the area I live in and I don't believe that I'm training in a vacuum. I think I answered your question?


----------



## hotel4dogs

M o P, it sounds like you have an AWESOME situation! I, for one, and jealous!

We went to Dan's today, worked some general type marks/blinds with the monster boy. We used live birds today (shackled), so it was a real thrill for Tito. 
On his way back to me with one of the live ducks, the wing got completely over his face right as he was almost back, and the poor dog ran SMACK head first into the bucket!!! He jumped back about a foot, I think he thought the duck did it to him. Of course, he dropped the duck when that happened, but happily picked it right back up (and went out to retrieve several more) so no harm done.
One of his water birds was a real diving duck, and Tito had to track it down for over 5 minutes. It was a hoot to watch, the bird would dive under, Tito would dive under, the bird would come up several feet away, Tito would come up several feet away from the duck, swim toward it, and the process would repeat. FINALLY he managed to snag it while it was under water, and he was mighty pleased with himself!


----------



## MillionsofPeaches

oooh I'm so excited for you guys! Our trainer is picking up some new birds for the summer and I can't wait to use the live ones! Sounds like it was a blast!

That is hilarious about the duck. Especially since Tuesday while I was snapping up photos of the training dogs, one of them had a duck covering his whole face and he was running all around lost cause he couldn't see. I got some really neat looking shots of that!


----------



## Alaska7133

You answered my question.
Sounds like you get more training time than most people and definitely myself. I'm happy with 2 hours a week. If I didn't work so much maybe I'd have more time. I've thought about dropping Lucy off with a trainer to take care of the forced fetch training and hold since I don't have a lot of time.


----------



## Claudia M

I don't have a training club nor a trainer anywhere near me - so we rely on reading materials, my DH's experience from training in the years past. We (especially him) are old school and does not believe a pup should be introduced to heavy training until mid 1 year to 2 years old, e-collar is out of the question (with him especially - and I am working on both myself and him as far as ever using one - that also means finding a good trainer to introduce both of us to it)
While Evan mentioned that I will never get far in fieldmtraining without the e-collar (as James Free Lamb); DH used the James Free Lamb without the e-collar with Belle and she did just fine; actually much better than the ones that paid big bucks on the dogs and the trainers.
He did not go thru any obedience stuff (circus as he calls it) etc; and I see that once again the old guys - Lamb - was correct - one handler. I have been going to obedience with her and training her but he has been doing the field stuff with me pushing him. Now she is completely confused as who to go to and in that confusion she is losing the enthusiasm. 
Lamb was also correct in the fact that maturity matters and the dog's aptitude matters. 
I do thank Evan for his video which encouraged me further away from the e-collar and to more carefully check alternatives and go back to Jim Spencer views on it. 
Without him I probably would have never seen the both sides of the coin. 
Even though, Barb has indicated a brighter side of the e-collar coin - so to speak.


----------



## EvanG

MillionsofPeaches said:


> Evan surely you aren't so smug that you can't see that you sound a bit condescending in your statement to me. She is 6 months old. If I had a 6 month old that was fully trained #10 of your list then I'd have my own TV Show. Surely, you would know how WE are doing on that list.


Once you've been training people to train dogs for 35 years you'll realize that you're rarely on safe ground assuming they automatically understand terms the same way you do. Some of my own clients have assured me they're "through Basics", and weren't even through basic obedience. Had I taken that at face value we could well have embarked on fieldwork miles over the poor dog's head, and set them up for the formation of bad habits or worse. That kind of thing bothers me, so I try to clear the air in the dog's behalf.

If you'd like me to stop trying to help you that's not a problem. Good luck in any event.

EvanG


----------



## MillionsofPeaches

Evan, I've been really upfront about knowing nothing. I never said that she was done with obedience. In fact, watching dogs closely for the last few months I would say obedience training, tweaking never stops. 
I am soaking up all information and help I can get. I value your help as well as others on this forum and that is why I like this field thread so much. 
I just don't want to be treated like an idiot while you are helping me. I know I'm below it all but if I'm aware of it, I own it, and I'm not arguing about that, then I don't need trainers or more advanced people talking down to me in an effort to put me in my place. I get it. I know nothing but what I've been learning. Just help me knowing that I'm openminded and respectful of the knowledge that others have, including you, and that I know you have way more experience than I could dream of having. You don't have to prove it to me. I already understand it.


----------



## K9-Design

My good friend and training partner initially started down the Spencer book lane, sans ecollar/old fashioned, until she got to the page where he says if your dog won't sit on a whistle and he's too far away, get out your rat shot and SHOOT THE DOG. She ran out and bought an ecollar....

No field training recently for us although I am starting on Bally with 3-handed-casting to food bowls. He turned 4 months old yesterday and it is truly adorable. I'll do a little video next week


----------



## Claudia M

isn't this the same Spencer, the same guy that said that "you should spend time relaxing with your dog, just budding around, for that keeps the bond between you strong and personal"?


----------



## Alaska7133

Claudia,
I'm a total novice, but I did notice your dog lack of excitement. Have you ever trained away from home, say in a park or field? Somewhere new? I've tried in my yard, and my dogs have no interest. But when I go somewhere else they perk up. Also when we throw bumpers we don't face the dog, we face the direction we are throwing. We give 3 hey heys and throw the bumper. Then the handler releases their dog. When the dog picks up the bumper, the handler gets excited and waves a second bumper to get the dog to come right back. Looking at your video, you both look very fixed and not as I don't know... Excited and happy. I don't know how to explain it. Be peppier, be happier. Does that make sense? Maybe it was just one video and it doesn't show a true picture of you training.


----------



## EvanG

I hope this little recap might illustrate why I had the take on her that makes me think that, rather than stubbornness (which is certainly possible), that the problem may more likely be that she isn't far enough along in training yet. What we've said so far.


EvanG said:


> Is this dog through formal Basics?
> 
> EvanG





MillionsofPeaches said:


> yes, she is young and yes she has been going through obedience training.





Claudia M said:


> Peaches is 6 months old - right?





MillionsofPeaches said:


> exactly and she is obviously not up to par at this age. She is just now going through "suggestive fetch training" or however you guys want to put it. LOL.





MillionsofPeaches said:


> oh and by the way.....*if she is in the mood, then she knows all the motions* of how to get into place, sit and wait, mark, respond on her call, come back, and hold it to my hand.....
> 
> That is if she is in the mood, ha ha.
> 
> If she is not feeling it, then right away we know. She will come over, take off when called and get to the mark. When she gets up to it she sniffs it and wanders off and doesn't care.
> There is no rhyme of reason to the madness.


This was perhaps the clearest tip. She thinks compliance is optional, and that is what separates a taught dog from a trained one.


MillionsofPeaches said:


> Shelly, that is exactly it! She doesn't think it is mandatory.


And that cinched it for me. So, what I'm suggesting is that the training needs now to proceed from passiveness to formality so that she no longer deems obeying you as merely optional. But you may note I never said you won't go far in the field without an e-collar. In fact I have yet to mention one, other than within the framework of the _formal Basics_ outline. But e-collar use is optional. Enforcement of commands is not. Just use whatever tool or tools you are comfortable with.

I've trained many dogs without an e-collar. My first two were qualified all-age; no force fetch, no collar. I wouldn't do it again, but it surely can be done.

I don't know if this is helpful or not. I hope it is, even if only for clarity.

EvanG


----------



## Jige

I happen to think that MOP is pushing the dog too fast for its age. I would make sure she( pup) understands all the obedience is sound on that and is doing solid singles at any distance before trying for doubles. I woud like to know that the pup is running straight out putting up a search if need be and hurrying back to a nice finish. Then I would move to singles in heavier cover before doubles too. But that is just how I would do it. Good luck.


----------



## MillionsofPeaches

Evan, I don't think we've had the ecollar conversation. 
I actually have no problem with a responsible e collar trainer and that is part of the allure of my trainer. He only uses force after the dog has a clear understanding of what he has been taught. For us...that probably won't happen for a couple of years. 
And yes, I do believe that we will know more about her as she grows. And as far as the mandatory obedience, I agree, she doesn't believe that bringing it back is a mandatory command. That is the signal that we need to do more on that front. She does understand that come is a mandatory command, that heel that sit, ect is, but not pick up. 

General, I would agree with you on the young dog training. We do not have her doing really anything but fundamentals with her. And that is a few times a day for a few minutes max. I think I am not presenting this clearly because between her and my older dog it is hard to keep up with what is doing what. My older dog is doing doubles at home based on my homework assignments. Yesterday she did drills with the trainer and me and we worked on some of her foundational stuff. The puppy didn't do really much because none of it was on her level except for some fun bumpers.


----------



## EvanG

MillionsofPeaches said:


> Evan, I don't think we've had the ecollar conversation.
> I actually have no problem with a responsible e collar trainer and that is part of the allure of my trainer. He only uses force after the dog has a clear understanding of what he has been taught. For us...that probably won't happen for a couple of years.


Sounds like a good trainer. That's what the good ones do; teach thoroughly, then force. That's how training becomes formalized. Hats-off to the trainer on this approach.


MillionsofPeaches said:


> My older dog is doing doubles at home based on my homework assignments. Yesterday she did drills with the trainer and me and we worked on some of her foundational stuff. The puppy didn't do really much because none of it was on her level except for some fun bumpers.


Not enough mechanics in the dog yet for real doubles in the field. But you can certainly be doing memory drills if you care to.





 
The pup in this clip was 4 months old at the time.

EvanG


----------



## MillionsofPeaches

yes she is just starting the foundation to lead her into real doubles. She is still close to the 180 degree line but we are now starting a small close in now. She understands remember and no bird and all that. So that is why we're going from 180 to maybe 175 if that makes sense. LOL.

Since I've made it perfectly clear that I am humble and have no real knowledge, perhaps everyone will just understand that some of the my verbiage is probably used incorrectly due to my inexperience and nicely correct me.


----------



## MillionsofPeaches

BTW great video. A lot of that is similar to how my trainer started us. But now we are at a more formal level for Kat.


----------



## EvanG

MillionsofPeaches said:


> Since I've made it perfectly clear that I am humble and have no real knowledge, perhaps everyone will just understand that some of the my verbiage is probably used incorrectly due to my inexperience and nicely correct me.


The greatest trainers who ever lived were once beginners too. Over time it will all come together.

EvanG


----------



## Claudia M

Alaska7133 said:


> Claudia,
> Looking at your video, you both look very fixed and not as I don't know... Excited and happy. I don't know how to explain it. Be peppier, be happier. Does that make sense? Maybe it was just one video and it doesn't show a true picture of you training.


You probably cannot tell from the video, DH has the whistle - I can certainly not be happy happy peppy peppy and jumpy jumpy since she is still trying to bring the bumper back to me - that will only encourage her even more to come back to me. 

When I am not there she goes straight to DH. With me throwing the bumpers she does the circle as if trying to come towards me and then goes to him because he is calling her and she still tried to look back for me.
He hasn't had this problem before because no one else has ever worked with his previous dogs. 

This evening I will try to see if we reverse (he throws the bumpers and I send her) on how she responds. Unfortunately DD is going to see the darn Iron Man 3 and she will not be able to tape it.


----------



## Claudia M

yuck yuck yuck - thunderstorms and heavy rain this evening.


----------



## hotel4dogs

I am feeling very sorry for myself. EVERYONE is at an HRC test this weekend about 3 hours from here, I am so jealous. I have to work.


----------



## Claudia M

hotel4dogs said:


> I am feeling very sorry for myself. EVERYONE is at an HRC test this weekend about 3 hours from here, I am so jealous. I have to work.


You'll make it next time!


----------



## Alaska7133

Once again practice canceled due to snow. This is now the longest snow season for us on record. From the first snowfall to the last (hopefully today was the last) it has been 230 days. Our first snow was 3" on Sept 29. I'm sorry to whine but at this rate my puppy will never learn to swim outdoors. 

Our hunt test and field trials are not going to well. The events are having a hard time finding open water and having any time to train in it. 

Yesterday we checked on our new training field. The frost just started coming out of the ground, so in a couple of weeks it will probably be dry enough to use if it gets above freezing. 

Next weekend Lucy is in 3 conformation shows. I will have a tough time to letting her enjoy herself and keeping her looking nice for the shows. But it will mean no field training again.

Thanks for listening to me whine....


----------



## hotel4dogs

Ah, you made me feel better for having to work while everyone else is at a hunt test, that's for sure!


----------



## MillionsofPeaches

omg that snowman is hilarious!
Today we went to our local club's annual spring picnic. Needless to say our pups are tired after swimming and running around all day!


----------



## Claudia M

I am afraid I am in trouble. I did reverse with DH - he threw the bumpers and I handled her. Wow was she back to herself and coming back in straight lines and with enthusiasm. I screwed up one time, I confused her as I was confused myself, I thought she sent her for the wrong bumper so I started whistle-ling she took the correct bumper and tried to also get the second one, made a circle and came back to me. Meanwhile DH took the second bumper and threw it again as a single in the same spot. 
Hopefully tomorrow will be a repeat and DD can tape it.


----------



## Alaska7133

A couple of us did get out yesterday with our dogs. This is Lucy's sister chasing bumpers. She has been out of town a lot the last couple of months without training. Daisy did great on 50 yd retrieve singles. Reilly was his usual happy self, limping, but very happy to chase bumpers. Lucy I just left in the car until we finish her forced fetch training. 

It's been a lot of fun to see Lucy's littermates develop over time both physically and mentally. They all love to retrieve and they all love people, typical goldens. But they are show breeding, and they just don't have that drive that field bred goldens have. They don't have that retrieve till you drop dead mentality.

Next weekend we will miss our training. Lucy is in the conformation show ring up against her sister Caly. Should be fun, but they have to stay clean all weekend!


----------



## Claudia M

Well, I am in trouble. I really need to learn this field stuff. Today it was a bit confusing for Rose. She did good, smarter than me. DH threw a couple behind the wood shed and she took awhile and extra direction to find the bumper. On the last one instead of sending her I made the motion and said mark :doh: , she started going and then registered I did not send her and she went to the bow dummy so I had to re-position her and send her for the bumper. Will post the videos as soon as they upload. Please go easy on me!


----------



## Alaska7133

Claudia
We are all learning... It's hard to figure it all out. I'm fine with a trainer, then I go off on my own and can't figure out how to make it all work. I get the dogs all confused. Then I meet with the trainer again and have to learn things all over. Patience I guess.


----------



## Claudia M

I guess I should be happy the dog knew I did not give the right command. 
Here is the first video: 
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=130865077110396&set=vb.100005607129620&type=2&theater

DD is trying to make them 5 min so they can upload to FB; DD stopped though on the throw where Rose missed the first run. I called her back to me as she was trying to go for the second one and we repeated it. The first one I wasn't sure if DH was going for a single or a double hence the delay in sending her.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=130869077109996&set=vb.100005607129620&type=2&theater

Here the second, finishing with my blunder!


----------



## hotel4dogs

it's NINETY here today. Yikes!


----------



## my4goldens

hotel4dogs said:


> it's NINETY here today. Yikes!


Its hideous. We go from frost warning a week ago to 90 today. Took Tugg down to the creek, on a long line, his water entry was fabulous. Wish I had the skills or the strength or the wisdom to field train this dog. Coming back so slow from this surgery even the walk to the creek and back did me in.


----------



## Claudia M

it is drizzle rain and 66 here. Took Rose for another play run outside with DD and she is now taking her for a walk.


----------



## gdgli

Claudia M

Thanks for the video. I also liked the background music.

I think you are doing fine.


----------



## Claudia M

I was reading again in my retrieving bible about marking. I noticed where Lamb says to start off by sending the dog for the bumper while still in the air, before it actually lands. To teach steadiness you make him wait to a 5 count and then send for the bumper. 
Does anyone do anything else to improve marking? Is that just something that happens with repetition and experience? How about nose hunting? How much direction do you give; do you allow the pup to smell for the bumper until he finds it or do you give direction?


----------



## hollyk

My mantra when Winter was young was "You have to throw 1000 singles to teach a dog to Mark". 
We still throw singles most of the time and run multiples maybe once every week to ten days. 
As long as the dog is staying in the AOF we just let them hunt and work out where the mark is. If they are going to leave the AOF then the gunner will give the dog help to keep them in the AOF and hunting. The gunner tries give the least amount of help needed. If the dog is more advanced they will be handled to the mark.


----------



## Jige

My sister and I are both training our dogs I will let my dog hunt as long as I feel he is the AOF and I tend to make my AOF small compard to the guys I train with. My sister on the other hand she wants her dog to have help if she searchs too long. I have been working on letting her dog search and gain confidence and my sister is getting better and her dog is marking better.
Jige is nose dog I have some my HRC trainers that dont like that he winds the birds but he marks them first as he is always in the AOF as I stated earlier I make small AOF. I think he is doing good. 

I do lots of singles at various distances in lots of different areas. I always have a couple of bumpers with when we go so if I see different cover my son and I can throw a few bumpers for him.


----------



## Claudia M

AOF = Area of fall????


----------



## hollyk

Yes, Area Of Fall. 
Also, a good gunner is worth their weight in gold. It is an art to know when and how much help to give. From a double throw as they can see the break down begin to just maybe a single step toward the mark at just the right time. Remember, part of running singles is instilling momentum and drive.


----------



## Jige

We have club training tonight. Right now it is 44 degrees with 14mph winds and it is raining. I wish I could remeber what I did with my raincoat. Not looking forward to training but if it was a test I would be all over it. I wonder how Jige will do tonight?


----------



## gdgli

We are doing water today. I am working on her honor at the water. This will be the hardest thing to work on with her.


----------



## sterregold

Claudia M said:


> I was reading again in my retrieving bible about marking. I noticed where Lamb says to start off by sending the dog for the bumper while still in the air, before it actually lands. To teach steadiness you make him wait to a 5 count and then send for the bumper.
> Does anyone do anything else to improve marking? Is that just something that happens with repetition and experience? How about nose hunting? How much direction do you give; do you allow the pup to smell for the bumper until he finds it or do you give direction?


I only do the send in the air thing with little puppies or new dogs to build momentum and excitement. It is not conducive to teaching them to MARK though. Marking involves them recognizing the direction and depth of the fall. If the bird or bumper has not hit the ground they are not learning to build that mental picture. They need to learn to develop that to be able to eventually remember memory birds accurately.

Marking itself is visual--so once they are going well, you need to concentrate on getting them to focus on the fall--to lock onto that location. A good way to start that is with a bumper that will contrast with cover in the AOF, and keeping that cover short. That would mean black bumpers on snow, or white bumpers on mowed grass. Do not use orange when developing marking as they cannot see it on the grass!

Once they lock in well, I like to do a drill that requires they use their nose as well tio add scent to the visual component. We do a drill we call the Two-Chair drill for this. It requires two chairs set back about 40 yards from the line, and about 10 yards apart from each other, and three orange bumpers and 3 white bumpers, and a live gunner. Handler and dog are on line, and the gunner throws a white bumper angle-in towards the centre line between the two chairs. Dog retrieves it, gunner crosses to the other chair and does the mirroring angle-in throw, but this time with an orange bumper. The process is repeated with a square throw and then an angle back throw. In principle, this is requiring the dog to use its nose on the second retrieve, but you have taught the fall with the initial throw of the visible bumper. If you were doing this in the winter on snow, you would use the white bumper for the repeat throws, and a dark bumper for the initial throw.

ABCD drills are also excellent for teaching marking, as the dog has to focus on the fall with all of the other distractions of visible gun stations and old falls present.

If the dog has difficulty, the _*gunner *_needs to help _appropriately_--by keeping them in the area, or providing an EARLY momentum rethrow on a longer mark, or a mark with a temptation (like an old fall)that might cause the dog to break down and hunt short. I do not like to handle on these sorts of drills as I want the dog to use their nose and work it out. Too much handling on marks can undermine their confidence and lead to a dog who will not put up a good hunt, or who will pop and look for help rather than work it out themself.


----------



## hollyk

Shelly,
I do always love your posts. 

We have a few puppies starting right now and oh my gosh what fun it is to help out with them. Last week a little 12 week old girl was nailing her puppy marks and the one time she didn't she put up a really smart hunt. We were so thrilled with her you would have thought she hung the moon! Miss Qwin is doing short water retrievers too. Her Daddy is a Push son and her Momma has quite a few field greats in her pedgree and is a pinpoint marker. ( "your mama can't dance and your daddy can't rock n roll" going though my head now )
Winter was 1 when I started with her so I missed all the puppy stuff.
Maybe a puppy next year for me. :crossfing




sterregold said:


> I only do the send in the air thing with little puppies or new dogs to build momentum and excitement. It is not conducive to teaching them to MARK though. Marking involves them recognizing the direction and depth of the fall. If the bird or bumper has not hit the ground they are not learning to build that mental picture. They need to learn to develop that to be able to eventually remember memory birds accurately.
> 
> Marking itself is visual--so once they are going well, you need to concentrate on getting them to focus on the fall--to lock onto that location. A good way to start that is with a bumper that will contrast with cover in the AOF, and keeping that cover short. That would mean black bumpers on snow, or white bumpers on mowed grass. Do not use orange when developing marking as they cannot see it on the grass!
> 
> Once they lock in well, I like to do a drill that requires they use their nose as well tio add scent to the visual component. We do a drill we call the Two-Chair drill for this. It requires two chairs set back about 40 yards from the line, and about 10 yards apart from each other, and three orange bumpers and 3 white bumpers, and a live gunner. Handler and dog are on line, and the gunner throws a white bumper angle-in towards the centre line between the two chairs. Dog retrieves it, gunner crosses to the other chair and does the mirroring angle-in throw, but this time with an orange bumper. The process is repeated with a square throw and then an angle back throw. In principle, this is requiring the dog to use its nose on the second retrieve, but you have taught the fall with the initial throw of the visible bumper. If you were doing this in the winter on snow, you would use the white bumper for the repeat throws, and a dark bumper for the initial throw.
> 
> ABCD drills are also excellent for teaching marking, as the dog has to focus on the fall with all of the other distractions of visible gun stations and old falls present.
> 
> If the dog has difficulty, the _*gunner *_needs to help _appropriately_--by keeping them in the area, or providing an EARLY momentum rethrow on a longer mark, or a mark with a temptation (like an old fall)that might cause the dog to break down and hunt short. I do not like to handle on these sorts of drills as I want the dog to use their nose and work it out. Too much handling on marks can undermine their confidence and lead to a dog who will not put up a good hunt, or who will pop and look for help rather than work it out themself.


----------



## Vhuynh2

hollyk said:


> Shelly,
> I do always love your posts.
> 
> We have a few puppies starting right now and oh my gosh what fun it is to help out with them. Last week a little 12 week old girl was nailing her puppy marks and the one time she didn't she put up a really smart hunt. We were so thrilled with her you would have thought she hung the moon! Miss Qwin is doing short water retrievers too. Her Daddy is a Push son and her Momma has quite a few field greats in her pedgree and is a pinpoint marker. ( "your mama can't dance and your daddy can't rock n roll" going though my head now )
> Winter was 1 when I started with her so I missed all the puppy stuff.
> Maybe a puppy next year for me. :crossfing


I met Qwin yesterday! She is beyond adorable!!!


Sent from Petguide.com App


----------



## MillionsofPeaches

Today was a great day! I was so proud of my dogs. Our trainer did something different with Peaches today and it worked great! She brought all of her bumpers back and was very pumped up. Katniss did really great as well. We were doing singles out in high grasses about 40 yards out on slopes. All the dogs had to hunt and it was so hot and humid with no wind so the scent was hard to catch for them. About half had to be helped going out and finding it. Kat looked and looked but I finally called her in and resent her on remember. She followed straight on my line and found it right away. Very cool. She is really putting all of her new stuff together and putting it into action. My husband was able to come out this morning and he was so impressed. It made me proud! I love my girls!


----------



## MarieP

::Sigh:: I broke my dog today.... I'm sure he's not permanently broken, but his mommy feels really stupid. Ugh. Total no-goes on the last two marks of the day. We think it's because I was nit-picking him on heeling issues around the line and he got stressed. We chased him out and he got the birds eventually, with the help of the gunners. Oh well. I'm sure we will fix it, and then something else will break...


----------



## gdgli

mlopez said:


> ::Sigh:: I broke my dog today.... I'm sure he's not permanently broken, but his mommy feels really stupid. Ugh. Total no-goes on the last two marks of the day. We think it's because I was nit-picking him on heeling issues around the line and he got stressed. We chased him out and he got the birds eventually, with the help of the gunners. Oh well. I'm sure we will fix it, and then something else will break...


I have seen that happen. The dog gets to the point of feeling "I better not do anything, it might be wrong".


----------



## MarieP

gdgli said:


> I have seen that happen. The dog gets to the point of feeling "I better not do anything, it might be wrong".


Yup. I think that's what he was feeling. So we will be doing some really fun, easy marks for a bit, without worrying too much about steadiness.


----------



## hotel4dogs

Marie, do you have access to live birds?


----------



## Jige

Last nights training was great there weer only 3 of with dogs everyone else whimped out on us.Yes it was cold and raining but come on.

We set up so you could run a single, doubles and a blind. I ran Jige on the double were about75yrds out. One was a water mark the other land. I was pleased with Jiges entery into the water he plowed in that was good. He had a little trouble with teh land mark I think it was the wind messing with him as it was blowing east to west and we were running north to south so it pushed him to the west abit did not take him long to figure it tho. I ran a second time just as a single on that mark and he was spot on. Then we moved back so we were about 150yrds. Jige was a bit more cautious going into the water and he cheated coming back one guy that came to watched said he wasnt surprised it was set-up to cheat. Then I turned him to send him the second mark and I could not get him to focus on it. I knew he marked it but he was fixating on something up on the hill. I sent him he went off to where he was looking and came up with a bumper that someone had lost. He must have spotted it when we were walking out there. I then set up him to go for that second mark the one guy said he would try with him he would have Steve toss another I said no and sent him. He went straight to it. Everyone was so pleased with his line and his delivery. I was so happy with him. We ended our night on that high note.


----------



## MillionsofPeaches

Marie, how did today go for you guys?

Well, today Peaches passed her CGC so that was exciting but we are going on a vacation tomorrow so we had to board the dogs. I cried a few times. We've never left them before. We boarded them with the trainer that they already know and they'll be trained daily so I'm confident they'll have an exciting time. I just worry so much about their confusion of why they were left. Next time will be easier, I know, but this time is hard. 
It is so lonely around here....


----------



## hollyk

Well, I got the message that every field trainer gets sooner or later.

Is this bumber yours? :yes:


----------



## hotel4dogs

Went to Dan's today. It was an absolute train wreck. Some days I'm not sure who's more clueless, me or the dog.
It was one of those days that we just could do no right as a team. 
SHEEESH


----------



## Claudia M

It must be the rain, thunder storms, tornado and the rest ... we were under a tornado watch this evening, luckily it passed us by.


----------



## sterregold

I judge a MH test today for the local Labrador club. We put on a busy, hunty little test. We had 15/23 dogs make it through. A couple of dogs were on the bubble, but we only lost one dog on water--broke on the honour. Bonnie got to be setup dog and picked up all of the water marks--one of them four times before we got it to land where we wanted it!

We ran the upland series and land series together. The dogs quartered up a hill to the flush, and after they picked up the flush bird, did a walkup to the marks in a field with 24 goose decoys and 12 duck decoys. As they hit the line, the short bird of a hip pocket double went off and was shot from the line. Then the long bird went landing in some marshy grass. Dogs picked up both of these and on return from the second bird a diversion mark went off to the right. Dogs retrieved it and then ran a big big blind up the middle through a gully. We knew the blind would give a few dogs trouble, and it did--a number of dogs squared the hill and climbed the gully and got into a casting war with their handlers. We also had a number of handles on the marks--usually the short mark surprisingly enough. And there were three double handles, and a switch as well--on "just a double"! We lost 7 dogs in the first series.

Water was on a phenomenal pond. We threw a triple left to right. First bird was thrown from a canoe and shot from line. Next mark was thrown from a canoe into some lily pads. And the third came from the bank, winger-thrown behind a big log. After they picked up the marks, they ran a blind between the middle and right mark, tight to the back side of a little channel behind the centre bird gunner, with a log on line. Then the dog had an honour. We had one dog break on the honour, and while there were a couple of dogs on the bubble after the water blind, in the end the break was the only dog dropped on water.


----------



## hollyk

Sounds like a fun test Shelly.
You need to head west and judge some tests in B.C.


----------



## sterregold

That would be fun, but I don't think the entries would pay the flight expenses!


----------



## Alaska7133

I'm up in Fairbanks doing 3 conformation shows with Lucy. At the same time there is a UKC hunt test in town. Well we did terrible in conformation today, so now I'm wondering why I'm not out having fun at the hunt test. I'm tempted to pull her from the show tomorrow and go do the hunt test tomorrow instead! Hah! So this evening we're down eating dinner at a restaurant on the Chena River. It's all the way up to 81 degrees. But here is some ice still on the river. We watched several kayaks, canoes, boats, jets skis and one water skier zigzag up the river around the ice floes! It has been a longggg winter up here! The lakes and ponds are still ice covered. I'm not sure how they ran the hunt test today with the ice.


----------



## hotel4dogs

GO DO THE HUNT TEST!!
She has plenty of time to hit the breed ring, she's still young. Take advantage of being so close to the hunt test!
(JMO of course!)


----------



## Claudia M

we went to the cabin this weekend. Wow was it an adventure. Friday evening when we got there someone left cheese in the fridge and it was stinking' DD and I got to clean the fridge, throw everything away while DH had to drive back in town and get extra groceries. Rose got to run in the fields for about an hour. Saturday we go outside and there is this groundhog running towards me; well not really, it was running towards his hole which I was going towards. It took an hour of hunting and finally got the sucker and covered the hole which was way too near to the johnny-house. We went for a "walk" with Rose. By the time we were up the hill she was already across the meadow into the woods and charging back towards us. Wow can she run. The grass was as tall as she is, but all we had to do was call her and she would charge right back to us. She was way too excited for retrieving. We did a couple and then called it a day; finished on a good note and then she was further introduced to shooting sounds. Then she got another big run and "walk". I am so so dumb - I had no idea she had so so much energy in her. 
We left the camera chip at home and only have a couple photos and a little video. I will go to the store and see if I can get a USB cable for the camera and post later.


----------



## hollyk

Well we're entered in Finished test next week-end. I'm not sure if we are ready but the test is being held on new grounds that are only about 40 min. from my house. It's so close I thought what the heck, usually this test is 3 hours away and involves taking a ferry across Puget Sound. I'm only entered one day.
I went out to a training day yesterday that was held on these grounds. My intention was the run the Finished set up like a test. However, the test set up was set in higher cover and they were using pheasants and not much wind. I was loading a winger for awhile and watch a lot of advanced dogs have really big hunts. By the time we ran I decided my real goal was just to get her used to the grounds for next week so we ran it as singles and then picked up the blinds. It was kind of funny earlier in the week we had worked on running blinds through cover lines and it served us well. Winter did a really nice job holding her line through cover.
The highlight of the day was when I watch a 10 year old female yellow lab who has qualified at both the US and Canadian Master Nationals. She STOMPED all three marks and lined the blind, the only dog to do it all day. It was amazing to see her work. 



hotel4dogs said:


> GO DO THE HUNT TEST!!
> She has plenty of time to hit the breed ring, she's still young. Take advantage of being so close to the hunt test!
> (JMO of course!)


If you do the hunt test and have time, look up Donna who is there running with her Golden boys Wiley and Lindy. Tell her Hello from me and that she stoled our sunshine and took it north with her.


----------



## hotel4dogs

wow, Holly, you are entering Finished without running Seasoned?
I'm impressed!


----------



## hollyk

hotel4dogs said:


> wow, Holly, you are entering Finished without running Seasoned?
> I'm impressed!


Na, we got our Seasoned Title last summer.


----------



## hotel4dogs

I should have remembered that, sorry. Good luck in Finished, have fun, can't wait to hear how it goes!


----------



## Claudia M

Of course none of the stores have the cable needed to take the pics and video off the camera. Had to order it online. I guess I should be happy that we were able to take some pics and a little video without the chip.
On the bright side I also ordered a tripod. It made no sense to order only a little cable that costs $5.00 and have it shipped. 
We'll go back in two weeks and hopefully by then we will have everything with us. Problem is the grass will be much much taller. It will not be cut until the end of June for the hay - too much danger of going over baby deer nested in the meadow before then. 
In the two day trip total ticks picked off Rose was 6 and total ticks picked off three humans and dog 10. None bit. The ticks are absolutely horrible this year.


----------



## Swampcollie

Well, it was a cold damp weekend, highs in the upper 50's and windy as hell. What do you do? Go dog training. The big dogs had a blast but I think the pup had the most fun of all of them. We introduced the shotgun at close range today along with a clip wing pigeon to hold her attention.


----------



## Claudia M

Swampcollie said:


> Well, it was a cold damp weekend, highs in the upper 50's and windy as hell. What do you do? Go dog training. The big dogs had a blast but I think the pup had the most fun of all of them. We introduced the shotgun at close range today along with a clip wing pigeon to hold her attention.


That is so great. She is a natural!


----------



## GoldenSail

Our last hunt local hunt test is this weekend (only three this year) and I won't be going. I feel so sad but I haven't had the time to strengthen water work to make this happen. Thursday I am dropping Scout off at the pro for what has now stretched out into a month. I will probably bawl my eyes out but I know she will be in good hands. Hopefully I can come back and refocus and enter some tests! Kwaheri!


----------



## Alaska7133

The Fairbanks hunt test would have been more fun. Lucy was 0 for 3 in the breed ring. Her sister was first everything time. The hunt test people said they did find some open water, but it was shallow and not deep enough for most dogs to swim. Since it was UKC, I'm not sure exactly what their rules are. When we first got to Fairbanks on Friday everything was brown and dead. By the time we left on Monday the leaves were on the trees. 20+ hours of daylight make everything grow so fast. You are right the sunshine did move north finally!

Wed. we start forced fetch training. Then Sunday is another picnic trial in the Mat-Su Valley. We should have a great weekend. I plan on running both Reilly and Lucy. We finally have more open water. Still some ice on the creeks and rivers down south here.


----------



## gdgli

I am having a great week with Buffy. She did her first water blinds last week. Then at our training day on Sunday she did her first cold blind, a pheasant that she had to be handled to. This was set up with obstacles in the way.

Patience and consistency has definitely paid off.


----------



## gdgli

I shot flyers at Westchester RC FT two weeks ago. I did the Qualifying stake. I saw several nice goldens there.


----------



## sterregold

I think a boy my friend Medie bred ran that test--Ralph Pitfield's Drake with Lois Monroe.


----------



## Jige

Had a wonderful training tonight. My new club is awesome. We set up a decheating water mark for BaWaaJige using 2 boogie men. It only took them pushing Jige back into the water once for Jige to not try to take the easy way out in his water retrieve. Then we moved over to a much longer hard water retrieve it was set-up so the dogs could easily cheat too and we worked to keep them in the water and swimming straight lines. I pushed Jige to swim further than his comfort zone on his second retrieve which was really good. He did great Dale thought I should end as it was a great retrieve but I said No I wanted one more so we pushed Jige to go out even further about 60yrds give or take abit. Jige did really good even his entry in the water was not as hesitant as it has been. I made a huge deal out of this retrieve and he ended his training really happy. The guys are confidant we can get Jige past his water issues in a short time. I hope so I would love to see him plowing back in the water.


----------



## K9-Design

Oh geeze -- well good that Jige did well in your eyes tonight but if I were training a dog with water issues the LAST THING I'd think about is 1970's decheating using boogiemen! Holy cow....hope that doesn't come back to bite you....

Tonight I drove down with Kristin to Wayne's (Montverde), she did two blinds and a mark in the big pond, and we walked around and threw bumpies for Bally (4 months) -- he is so adorable and really great, longest mark was probably 35 yards through all kind of junk in the water, weeds and whatnot, he dug it out. He also did a long water entry over a log, over an island and through a bunch of lily pads. Go puppy!


----------



## gdgli

sterregold said:


> I think a boy my friend Medie bred ran that test--Ralph Pitfield's Drake with Lois Monroe.


Too bad I didn't take notes, which I usually do. I was asked to shoot at the last minute. I was up there to see Elizabeth Wilson's Tiger Maple Of Braevue (Woody).


----------



## boomers_dawn

We've been working on everything SH with Gladys - going to all our large group trainings, weekend group, first week of a new group that invited us to weekday club training (so long as it holds up with work responsibilities); drills, pattern blinds, cold blinds, steady/honor - keeping it mixed up. 

Now I'm at the point where I have to think like a dog and look at "factors" and "traps" and "suction". The transition from Jr to Sr is harder on the handler than it is on the dog.

I've been told not to trust the dog, but she's the one who usually knows where the bird is, not me! HELP! 

I let her run around like a squirrel thinking she would autocorrect, to be told I should have stopped her and helped her. She doesn't usually need help. Who knew?

The next time, in an effort to keep her away from suction and factors, I micro-managed her on a water blind to the point she gave up and swam in despite my repeated whistle blowing, yelling, and button pushing. :--sad:
We re-did it as a sight blind.

Now I'm told I have to find that middle ground. Sometimes I stop her in that split second when she's auto corrected and getting on course, so I stop her for figuring it out and doing the right thing.

I feel so sad for my dog. God bless her little heart, she is so happy to retrieve, her little tail never stops wagging, especially when she comes out of the water with a bird or bumper. 

Why does God send talented dogs to incompetent novice trainers?

Scrolling through this months postings, I see I'm not completely alone either ... Thank you for reading my pity party.


----------



## AmberSunrise

Hey boomers_dawn! You have an awesome girl, wonderful trainer and you are a great handler! Sometimes it just takes a bit for the teamwork and timing to come together!


----------



## AmberSunrise

Sounds like a great training session !! The older methods still work, have for a very long time  I am so glad you have found a group that you love and works with you. That is so key to not only reaching your goals but to enjoying the process.



General V said:


> Had a wonderful training tonight. My new club is awesome. We set up a decheating water mark for BaWaaJige using 2 boogie men. It only took them pushing Jige back into the water once for Jige to not try to take the easy way out in his water retrieve. Then we moved over to a much longer hard water retrieve it was set-up so the dogs could easily cheat too and we worked to keep them in the water and swimming straight lines. I pushed Jige to swim further than his comfort zone on his second retrieve which was really good. He did great Dale thought I should end as it was a great retrieve but I said No I wanted one more so we pushed Jige to go out even further about 60yrds give or take abit. Jige did really good even his entry in the water was not as hesitant as it has been. I made a huge deal out of this retrieve and he ended his training really happy. The guys are confidant we can get Jige past his water issues in a short time. I hope so I would love to see him plowing back in the water.


----------



## boomers_dawn

Thanks Sunrise, you are the best. I had to pop in quick to say, just like for dogs, handlers can boost their confidence! Dog skool teecher wanted to do singles b/c his dog isn't marking well. So we threw walking singles for ea/o and did land blinds, what a confidence boost esp for me!! He critiqued my slot method missing the slot entirely, but I thought we did good b/c I got Gladys to the blind in 3 whistles. So I learned the slot concept, let dog get too far out, handler error. If our senior bliinds will be judged harshly as master blinds w/ my senior skills so be it.
Ikm trying to keep up w/ dog skool teecher b/c learn so much training for senior, but w/out pressuring myself or Gladys, b/c we of course don't have multiple master dogs under our belts. We're lucky to have such tutelage between him and our groups.

So ... anyone down on your handling skills ... do some confidence boosters for you


----------



## sterregold

When I got to this stage in Breeze and Win's training what I found really helpful were 3-peats. In a 3-peat you find a place where you can set up three separate blinds incorporating the same concept. The place needs to be big enough that you have separation so that the blinds are not influencing each other. 

Think of the first one as teaching the concept, the second as practising, and the third as refining. If they are still struggling with it on the third blind, don't do more of that concept on that day because it will not be fruitful as the dog is obviously still struggling with the concept, but come back and run those three blinds again a couple of days later. Then a couple of days after that move to another location and do it again. It really seems to help the dogs consolidate their learning.

I have a couple of phenomenal runoff ponds I use where we can do reentries, past the points, and over-the-points where I taught most of this. I tyhink the key is not to jump around to another concept until you get her confident on this one. One key will be figuring out what concept of factor it is that was present in the blind if you are unsure.



boomers_dawn said:


> We've been working on everything SH with Gladys - going to all our large group trainings, weekend group, first week of a new group that invited us to weekday club training (so long as it holds up with work responsibilities); drills, pattern blinds, cold blinds, steady/honor - keeping it mixed up.
> 
> Now I'm at the point where I have to think like a dog and look at "factors" and "traps" and "suction". The transition from Jr to Sr is harder on the handler than it is on the dog.
> 
> I've been told not to trust the dog, but she's the one who usually knows where the bird is, not me! HELP!
> 
> I let her run around like a squirrel thinking she would autocorrect, to be told I should have stopped her and helped her. She doesn't usually need help. Who knew?
> 
> The next time, in an effort to keep her away from suction and factors, I micro-managed her on a water blind to the point she gave up and swam in despite my repeated whistle blowing, yelling, and button pushing. :--sad:
> We re-did it as a sight blind.
> 
> Now I'm told I have to find that middle ground. Sometimes I stop her in that split second when she's auto corrected and getting on course, so I stop her for figuring it out and doing the right thing.
> 
> I feel so sad for my dog. God bless her little heart, she is so happy to retrieve, her little tail never stops wagging, especially when she comes out of the water with a bird or bumper.
> 
> Why does God send talented dogs to incompetent novice trainers?
> 
> Scrolling through this months postings, I see I'm not completely alone either ... Thank you for reading my pity party.


----------



## hotel4dogs

Shelly, Dan does exactly the same thing with 3-peats. I think it's why Tito runs great blinds.


----------



## gdgli

Have your trainers told you what is special about "three"?


----------



## sterregold

It is cognitive psychology--learning theory. When you learn a new skill, concept, piece of information you are writing new neural pathways in the brain. It is how the brain learns and and synthesizes new experiences into knowledge that can be generalized. 

If you only run a blind with a new concept once, the learner does not have the feedback to know what it is that they did right--ie what part of the blind was the concept lesson. The second blind allows that opportunity to do it more smoothly, and build the synaptic connection for what that concept "looks like" and the third, writing over it again, consolidates it and establishes it more fully in memory. Now of course if the dog is still struggling with the concept on the third blind, you do not have that consistent synaptic connection being built--too much is still happening--which is why you would come back and repeat the whole exercise with a dog who was still struggling.


----------



## boomers_dawn

Is it kind of like pattern blinds? I want to move the pattern field b/c the grass is too high now, but a mowed one is too small for 3 blinds, I asked can't I make it a 2 pattern blind field and he said no.

It must have something to do with their memory and how they learn. Thanks for the ideas.


----------



## EvanG

boomers_dawn said:


> Is it kind of like pattern blinds? I want to move the pattern field b/c the grass is too high now, but a mowed one is too small for 3 blinds, I asked can't I make it a 2 pattern blind field and he said no.
> 
> It must have something to do with their memory and how they learn. Thanks for the ideas.


I like your creative thinking. Patterns can contain anywhere from 2 to 10 blinds, although 5 is usually the most many trainers set up and run. But effectively using the space you have is something you should be commended for. 

EvanG


----------



## gdgli

Years back, I remember reading that some behaviorist-dog trainers felt that maximum learning occurred with three repetitions. 

I haven't looked for any research on this one but I had seen it in more than one place.


----------



## sterregold

It is not just in dog training. It is something I learned about in teacher's college as well. Repetition, in particular, well-shaped, well-spaced repetition, is necessary to move learning from short term into long-term memory. Ebbinghaus, Kandel, Kupferman,...are just a few of the people who did some of the significant research into learning and memory.

This is recent from Paas and Sweller (it is about human learners, but we are mammals too, and the same structures exist in the brain--ours just develop to a more complex level):

"The capacity and duration limits of working memory are far below the requirements of most substantive areas of human intellectual activity. Alone, working memory would only permit relatively trivial human cognitive activities. The relation between working memory and long-term memory resolves the problem (Ericsson and Kintsch 1995). The capacity and duration limits of working memory are eliminated when working memory deals with familiar information organized in long-term memory rather than unfamiliar information from the environment. Long-term memory contains cognitive schemas that are used to store and organize knowledge by incorporating or chunking multiple elements of information into a single element with a specific function. Schemas can be brought from long-term to working memory to govern activity .... Whereas working memory might, for example, only deal with one element, a working memory load that can be handled easily, that element may consist of a large number of lower-level, interacting elements organized and stored in long-term memory. Those interacting elements may far exceed working memory capacity if each element must be processed individually...."

_An Evolutionary Upgrade of Cognitive Load Theory: Using the Human Motor System and Collaboration to Support the Learning of Complex Cognitive Tasks._ Educational *Psychology* Review, Mar2012​


So the repetition is helping the dog to see the blind conceptually as a "big picture" instead of having to deal with what do with every little thing along the way, which would leave them unable to focus and discern what they need to do.


----------



## K9-Design

I am a proponent of immediately repeating a blind if a dog has trouble with the concept the blind is presenting. Sometimes it might be the identical blind, sometimes I will flip the blind and run it backwards if the feature/concept is difficult to replicate in a different spot. Now I can hack a blind to pieces and not feel the need to repeat it, but if the dog completely misses the concept/picture then I will most likely repeat.


----------



## sterregold

K9-Design said:


> I am a proponent of immediately repeating a blind if a dog has trouble with the concept the blind is presenting. Sometimes it might be the identical blind, sometimes I will flip the blind and run it backwards if the feature/concept is difficult to replicate in a different spot. Now I can hack a blind to pieces and not feel the need to repeat it, but if the dog completely misses the concept/picture then I will most likely repeat.


Yes, that is good as well. Anne Everett of Heads Up kennels posted in an email group that I am on about it being easier to pull a rope than to push one as well. On a really complex blind she will leave the dog at the stake, return to the line and then call the dog to her before running the blind. We know that dogs tend to retun via they same route they took out, so by doing this she is essentially flipping that concept to send them out by the route they took in! Since the handler is a more obvious target than a blind stake, it is easier for the dog to chose to do the right thing (provided it has been decheated etc.) Then she can run another blind incorportating the concept cold.


----------



## hotel4dogs

After last week's debacle at Dan's, I really needed a good week and this was one. We did some water drills (working on long angle entries for water blinds), then some land singles/multiples. Brought out the live ducks today, so it was great fun.
Finished off with a concept we haven't seen for a while, which is water hunts. While the dogs are used to hunting on the land, they don't always get a lot of opportunity to have to hunt in water. So again, live birds, lots of marsh grass, downed trees, etc. Just singles, but nice hunt set-ups. 
Very hot and humid here, heavy storms looming, lots of thunder.....


----------



## MarieP

My training group went to train with Pat Burns the other day. It was a long, hot day, but we had a great time. Lots of water marks. Riot was a little confused on the first few. He had never done such long swims for marks. But we didn't have any outright refusals, so that was good. And Ri got his first flyer! He certainly hit the water hard to get to that one. 

We really have to get moving on finishing up our basics. We should be able to get through swim-by before the end of the summer. We worked on T today. Definitely some confusion, but we worked through it. I'm glad I work nights so that I can train early in the morning when I get home, before it gets too warm.


----------



## gdgli

I am headed to the water today. It looks like I will be by myself. Might bring a fishing rod for a little fishing.


----------



## hotel4dogs

Maybe you could bring Buffy?? 



gdgli said:


> I am headed to the water today. *It looks like I will be by myself.* Might bring a fishing rod for a little fishing.


----------



## gdgli

hotel4dogs said:


> Maybe you could bring Buffy??


:doh:Haha, Very funny, Barb. 
OK, I ran out of coffee yesterday and my head is not clear this morning. Anyway, got to get out early, it will be in the 90's and humid today. 

Sunday I will be headed to Connecticut to join Southern Berkshire's training session.


----------



## Claudia M

I am sure Buffy would like to catch some fish as well!
Be safe in this horrible sudden humid heat!


----------



## EvanG

sterregold said:


> Yes, that is good as well. *Anne Everett* of Heads Up kennels posted in an email group that I am on about it being easier to pull a rope than to push one as well. On a really complex blind she will leave the dog at the stake, return to the line and then call the dog to her before running the blind.


Anne's a good dog lady. She's hosted several of my seminars on the island, and on the mainland at TNT Kennels in Abbotsford. What she's talking about is an adaptation of 'walk-outs'. She's smart enough not to do much outright repeating of blinds, and that's one reason why she remains competitive. But that nice little early transitional walk-out technique can take a young dog far and keep a good attitude.

EvanG


----------

