# Would you enter? (long explanation)



## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

Was that at NDT?? I know they had something that weekend. 

Sorry no words of advice.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Yep. Everyone got to see why I never come to class during stormy weather. >.<


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

I wouldn't do it--it's not worth it if he truly isn't ready. The show will be more like the match with all the hustle and bustle. Need to look at training him in places like that and going to more matches.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

a lot of dogs have more trouble with trials on their home turf. You'd think they'd do better since they are used to the location, but it seems to really throw a lot of them to have an area they are usually comfortable with change so much for them.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

GoldenSail said:


> I wouldn't do it--it's not worth it if he truly isn't ready. The show will be more like the match with all the bustle and bustle. Need to look at training him in places like that and going to more matches.


We go to fun matches all the time... including at this location. Because it's a familiar location and also because I know there a high likelihood that he will have successful stays there.

On average we are doing a fun match every month somewhere. They usually are pretty busy with all the usual suspects attending.

And we've been to busy and very noisy trials. 

This was the first time he ever reacted to the activity level like this. It was just a really abnormal reaction from him and I can't tell if it was just a bad day or not.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

I voted "No" as if you go into a situation that he is not ready for, you will set back all the training you have done to this point. That's why I haven't entered Dooley as he was being very inconsistant on his stays, so I am waiting until he is rock solid, as once you have a stay problem, you have a big challange ahead of you.

I think we are almost ready, and I am considering entering Doo in November.


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## Jige (Mar 17, 2011)

I guess I would pay the fee consider it a donation and take him but not participate I would see how he reacts to everything go on. Sort of an expensive training class. It might not have been the level of activity that got to him but something else this way you could full pay attention to him and see if you can figure out what tiggered his reaction.


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

Kate the only thing I would enter is Rally Novice..All on leash and you can (and should) help him through anything he may be spooked with. Use that ring as your donation ring. Because he is on leash and can't go anywhere but with you and you never leave him it should be a positive experience. Also talk to him during the course.Have fun. help him. The last thing you want your dog to be thinking is that shows are a scary place to be.. Just my two cents...
Michelle


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

My vote was no, based on the information that you gave with the fun match. I would expect the trial to be the same but add to that the stress level will likely be higher. I think if he could not work at the fun match, you would be setting him up for failure at the show. Why not just go there are do some training during the show instead?


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Yeah, I think you should take him there and instead of showing just train and play. Turn it into a fun and positive experience for him without the stress of having to perform.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Titan1 said:


> Kate the only thing I would enter is Rally Novice..All on leash and you can (and should) help him through anything he may be spooked with. Use that ring as your donation ring. Because he is on leash and can't go anywhere but with you and you never leave him it should be a positive experience. Also talk to him during the course.Have fun. help him. The last thing you want your dog to be thinking is that shows are a scary place to be.. Just my two cents...
> Michelle


I think it will be 30 days since we got our RN... can we still enter?

*** More and more I'm thinking about just mailing in the entry and planning on going but keeping him out of the ring unless I'm 100% sure he will be fine. <- And I should know by then, because we have a BN trial at a different location next week and another fun match onsite the week before the NDT trial (I think).


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

you can enter the B class until you get a qualifying score in Advanced.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Loisiana said:


> you can enter the B class until you get a qualifying score in Advanced.


I guess I need to get back to reading the obedience rulebook... my memory is bad. I think the time limit thing I was vaguely recalling applies to A level people and that's 60 days before they have to bump up to the B level.  

If my guy is a squirrel on the day, we aren't going to enter the ring at all. He had his flakeout at the fun match while on leash. We were approaching the finish line when he zipped to my right side. And then when I was lining up for the f8, he refused to get into heel position. Again, on leash. 

The problem with Rally novice is I'm actually more relaxed off leash because I then have two hands to guide him with and I'm not worrying about the leash tightening up. Those rally judges go nuts deducting points over anything that looks like a leash tightening. :doh:


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

Megora said:


> I guess I need to get back to reading the obedience rulebook... my memory is bad. I think the time limit thing I was vaguely recalling applies to A level people and that's 60 days before they have to bump up to the B level.
> 
> If my guy is a squirrel on the day, we aren't going to enter the ring at all. He had his flakeout at the fun match while on leash. We were approaching the finish line when he zipped to my right side. And then when I was lining up for the f8, he refused to get into heel position. Again, on leash.
> 
> The problem with Rally novice is I'm actually more relaxed off leash because I then have two hands to guide him with and I'm not worrying about the leash tightening up. Those rally judges go nuts deducting points over anything that looks like a leash tightening. :doh:


Sounds like you already made up your mind..Best of luck on whatever you decide!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Titan1 said:


> Sounds like you already made up your mind..Best of luck on whatever you decide!


Believe me I haven't. :doh:

I went out to lunch thinking "NO". :no:

I came back thinking that just maybe we can just go to hang out with the possible hope of going into the ring if I had a good feeling but permission-to-self to skip and just get him socialized for the next trial. :yes:

I'm looking at the "NO"s on the poll and thinking 'eek'. :no:

I'm not mailing anything if I do until Friday. If the entries are full by then, well that takes the decision out of my hands.


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

Megora said:


> Believe me I haven't. :doh:
> 
> I went out to lunch thinking "NO". :no:
> 
> ...


My no is only on BN..


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Megora said:


> I guess I need to get back to reading the obedience rulebook... my memory is bad. I think the time limit thing I was vaguely recalling applies to A level people and that's 60 days before they have to bump up to the B level.
> 
> If my guy is a squirrel on the day, we aren't going to enter the ring at all. He had his flakeout at the fun match while on leash. We were approaching the finish line when he zipped to my right side. And then when I was lining up for the f8, he refused to get into heel position. Again, on leash.
> 
> The problem with Rally novice is I'm actually more relaxed off leash because I then have two hands to guide him with and I'm not worrying about the leash tightening up. Those rally judges go nuts deducting points over anything that looks like a leash tightening. :doh:


So don't go in worried about a score outcome. You've already got the title, you're going in to help your dog, so dont worry about the score. There were times I entered Conner in wild card classes and purposefully would try to lose him on the heeling patterns. Sure I lost points for it, but my dog sure paid great attention the next time he heeled in the ring!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Loisiana said:


> So don't go in worried about a score outcome. You've already got the title, you're going in to help your dog, so dont worry about the score. There were times I entered Conner in wild card classes and purposefully would try to lose him on the heeling patterns. Sure I lost points for it, but my dog sure paid great attention the next time he heeled in the ring!


But I'm too competitive.... even with fun matches I tense up and try to "win... :bawling: 

I'm thinking it over...


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I am a FIRM believe in not entering anything, in any dog sport, until you are pretty much ready to ace the next level.
I wouldn't do it.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> I am a FIRM believe in not entering anything, in any dog sport, until you are pretty much ready to ace the next level.
> I wouldn't do it.


 
I don't think it has so much to do with whether or not you could ace the next level or not when it comes to obediece, the classes are so different that you could totally be prepared for one level and not even started training for the next level. 

I would just look at it as will it be more likely to benefit the dog or be a detriment to the dog? If you think you can work the issue out while in the ring then try it; if you think the dog is going to come out of it thinking it was a bad experience then don't.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

I personally would enter, but plan on not showing. Indoor shows in my area usually have limited crating, so I feel I have the right to bring in a crate etc only if I am entered, but may never step into the ring.

Faelan had something going on at one point with slamming doors in a metal building, so I needed to work him in that environment, so sent in entries so I could 'warm him up' and use a crate when he needed to chill.

So, I did not vote since yes, I would send in the entry, but no would not show unless he was very comfortable.


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

Entering your dog before it is ready has no benefit and can actually create a problem for future shows. I've been down that road and it took quite some time for my dog to be comfortable again after a negative experience.
There is no harm that will be done by waiting until your dog is solid and confident...really, what is the rush? There will be plenty more shows and lots of other opportunities.

If you are really set on showing, the idea of showing in rally novice is a great alternative. You can show in rally novice B without a problem unless you already have a leg in rally advanced.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> I am a FIRM believe in not entering anything, in any dog sport, until you are pretty much ready to ace the next level.
> I wouldn't do it.


I'm not sure about acing the next level other than making sure your dog can handle something a lot more difficult than what will be asked of him in the ring. I totally agree and believe in this.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Thought I'd follow up... 

Up until last minute I was waffling, especially since he started quivering and shaking right after we took our seats outside the ring this morning. But an hour later he had relaxed enough for me to feel somewhat comfortable about going into the ring. 

We got a 197.5 in the BN ring (bumping on the figure 8). 

And he would have been 2 for 2 if I had actually read my rulebook before going into the Rally Advanced ring. *doh*

He was brill on everything except for the jump. I'm thinking I'm finally going to invest in a high jump to practice with at home, because it obviously is a different sight picture than the bar jump I use at home. 

After he balked when I made our second attempt, I figured we had been nq'd and I might as well go into training mode. So I took him back fort a third time and paused next to the jump to see him over before we finished the course.

Then when I got out of the ring, everyone was smacking me upside the head because apparently we would have just lost 10 points if I had moved on after the second failed attempt. My going back and making sure he went over the jump on a third attempt nq'd us. 

*now I know* 

We did have a very good day though. The RA run was good training at least.... I'm semi glad we nq'd since I made sure he went over that jump.


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## Jige (Mar 17, 2011)

Good Job!!! Glad it was an okay experience and we live and learn I say. I bet you dont forget anything about this event either.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Congrats! That's a great score!


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Congratulations


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

One thing I wanted to add - partly because it humored me... 

When he was quivering and shaking, the one way I calmed him down was dropping cheese bits down on the floor in front of his paws or on his head or on his back. It got him focused on watching the "magic floor" instead of looking up to see if the sky was falling.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I've only NQ'd rally once so far, and it was also on jumps. Colby had wonderful straight-up attention, and when I cued the jump way too late he just slammed right into it. I kept trying to go back and have him take it (back then you could have two or three retries), but after slamming the jump hard enough to shake it, he figured the safest thing to do was run around it. Back then not taking the jump was an NQ. 

That day that he NQ'd in rally he also went HIT in obedience :doh:


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> Back then not taking the jump was an NQ.


And see... that would make sense. 

I don't mind MAJOR points being taken off for repeating something (3 points for the second attempt). But it doesn't make sense to me that you can miss or skip a sign and still qualify. Albeit with kinda bad scores.

In Rally excellent, everyone was misreading or missing certain signs, so the top scores were in the 80's. This when people normally are scoring in the 90's or hitting 100.


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## 2golddogs (Oct 19, 2009)

Congratulations on a great score in BN. I enjoyed reading how you got your boy to relax


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

Congrats on a great day..glad to hear he settled in for you!


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Loisiana said:


> I've only NQ'd rally once so far, and it was also on jumps. Colby had wonderful straight-up attention, and when I cued the jump way too late he just slammed right into it. I kept trying to go back and have him take it (back then you could have two or three retries), but after slamming the jump hard enough to shake it, he figured the safest thing to do was run around it. Back then not taking the jump was an NQ.
> 
> That day that he NQ'd in rally he also went HIT in obedience :doh:


The last time I did rally, Fisher did this, except we couldn't go back and repeat it, because he ran into it so hard it fell apart! LOL
That right there made me realize rally is dumb. (<------me taking my ball and going home)

Congrats on the BN pass!!


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Congratulations!!!!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I think if Jacks ever bumped or knocked over the high jump, that would take _months_ of desensitizing therapy for him. He tends to overthink about what could be dangerous. :uhoh: :bowl:


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Megora said:


> I think if Jacks ever bumped or knocked over the high jump, that would take _months_ of desensitizing therapy for him. He tends to overthink about what could be dangerous. :uhoh: :bowl:


Yeah, Fisher hardly blinked an eye...he was like, was that a speedbump??


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

hahahahaha, had to laugh, Tito is the same. He's taken down the high jump (at 26 inches), taken down the bar jump and sent the whole thing flying, whipped the last piece of the broad jump up to hit himself with it, and it's hilarious...the whole building goes dead quiet...everyone thinking he's just been ruined for obedience....and he just keeps going like you said, "was that a speed bump?" Luckily these things have only happened in training, not at shows.
Must be part lab.




K9-Design said:


> Yeah, Fisher hardly blinked an eye...he was like, was that a speedbump??


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Rally Excellent and Novice are both fun compared to the intensity of Open B. It's nice to have Rally, especially when the show day holds mainly the conformation ring, bc it's so low pressure.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Ljilly28 said:


> Rally Excellent and Novice are both fun compared to the intensity of Open B. It's nice to have Rally, especially when the show day holds mainly the conformation ring, bc it's so low pressure.


And both Advanced and Excellent are a lot more fun than novice... :curtain: I was pretty happy about bumping up to Advanced pretty quick.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

K9-Design said:


> That right there made me realize rally is dumb.


Glad I am not the only one who doesn't really like rally...


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

GoldenSail said:


> Glad I am not the only one who doesn't really like rally...


But she does have an RAE on her dog though, so she still played the game.  

I did think Rally was pointless back when it was first introduced and our instructor was really pushing it. :bowl: And I only changed my mind because I was getting burned out with taking regular obedience classes twice a week. 

The bonus I've discovered since playing in rally is that I'm actually having fun doing all of those doodles out on the floor, my dog is having fun because I'm praising him and talking to him the entire time, and of course this is actually helping him with his seperation anxiety. 

When I started Rally classes, I'll never forget him going into a state of panic when I went out and walked the floor without him. He now sees me go off without him and is complacent and relaxed the entire time.


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