# Dog Biting, Drew Blood Today



## Golden999 (Jun 29, 2010)

Biting has always been an issue for my puppy, and I've steadily tried to work on it with him during the nearly two months I've had him. It's always in the context of playing, and I've never got the sense that he's trying to hurt people.

However, he is now 25-30 lbs. (and growing), in a situation where he comes across a lot of neighbors and so forth who want to pet him (it's pretty unavoidable, unfortunately), and today he actually was playing with someone, bit her chin, and drew a little blood. It wasn't an awful cut or anything, and I don't think the person involved was too upset, but it was dripping blood -- and this is someone who lives nearby, so he will keep running into her and trying to play, and obviously if it reoccurs at some point she may not be too pleased with him.

This is quickly getting beyond the point where it used to be, where when he was like a little 7-10lb puppy people would shrug off being bit. He's developing to the point where if we can't put a stop to it soon, people may wind up calling the cops or whatever, because even though he is just playing, bigger dogs begin to intimidate people and they may not realize (or care) that he is just playing if he starts hurting people. So we really need to get him to stop ASAP.

I've tried verbally telling him "No bite!" at various levels of volume, removing myself from him when he bites and ignoring him for a little while, gently putting my hand around his jaw to rebuke him, and various other tactics, throughout the time I've had him. I also praise him when he licks, to try to make him realize that there is something positive he could do instead of biting. Nothing seems to stick with him.

What do I do?

It started out just being annoying and something I figured we would gradually work through, but with him having drawn blood from someone to day and living in an area where he *will* run into people, plus him growing so fast, it is quickly becoming a huge issue that needs to be dealt with urgently before it winds up becoming an issue where someone is trying to have him put down or whatever. For his own sake, I don't really have the option of training him in a steady way and hoping the biting gradually stops as time passes anymore. It really needs to stop now.

EDIT: Just wanted to mention that he is adorable and I am very attached to him. I reread this and was like "Whoa, that sounds a bit harsh". I'm worried about him, but he's a great dog in a lot of ways, and I am very glad he's around.


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

It sounds like what ever you are attempting on your own isn't quite working out.

I would suggest looking into a trainer. Having someone that is knowledgable to meet in your home and evaluate and give you good training suggestions to fit your situation would in my opinion be the most prudent thing to do so that your puppy will not be put at risk. As you say a bigger unruly dog will end up a liability to himself and your family.


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## Jax's Mom (Oct 16, 2009)

First of all, how old is he? He sounds like he is still quite young and the biting is more of a play issue, not agressiveness. The most important thing to do is not let people pet him if he is acting to "wild". When dogs are over-excited, they can get naippy at that age, since it is their form of play. I think there are alot of people on here that are more knowledgeable than I when it comes to the training aspect, but here, what I have done, when company comes over and my pups get too over excited (jumping barking and jumping up to lick...my little one can nip when she licks) I make sure my company knows to IGNORE them until they settle down. They let me take care of the corrections, once they settle down and SIT, they get attention. You have a right to tell your neighbors and visitors NOT to touch the dog when he is acting inappropriately. Let themknow he may hurt them unintentionally if they dont listen. Honeslty...thats what it sounds like to me, and thinking of putting him down at this stage is just jumping way too far ahead and, in my opnion making it aot more than it really is. Take a breathe, put it in perspective, then try doing some home training if you cant afford a real trainer.


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## nixietink (Apr 3, 2008)

Welcome to having a golden retriever! Your puppy is right at that age where they are beginning to teeth and are very bitey. It takes time. You just have to be consistent with training. It isn't something that is going to just go away. There are a lot of threads here on the forum about biting and techniques to eliminate it. Use the search function-you will have pleeeenty of reading to do. 

He is a puppy. Nobody is going to have a non-aggressive puppy put down-just be firm with people and tell them they cannot pet him.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

We actually had a similar situation happen with Jack around 5 months old. Jack went through a wild period then and when a friend was watching him one day, he was play biting and drew blood. I was REALLY upset and immediately enrolled him in an obedience class. I had been training him on my own but it definitely wasn't working. 

One thing we realized is that (in addition to needed to be more consistent with training) we unintentionally were not exercising Jack enough. A crazy energetic puppy is a lot more likely to display that behavior than a tired puppy. I would encourage you to really focus on making sure your pup is getting enough exercise everyday. That made a WORLD of difference with Jack. He still has his moments at 10 months old, but our neighbor was actually over last night briefly and commented on how much better behaved he was! Made me pretty happy!


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

I can understand how frustrated you must be. It's one thing for the cute puppy nip, it's another thing when your 30lbs dog jumps at someone's face, even though both are really part of the same thing in the dog's mind.

I think a trainer, even though you sound like you know your stuff, can put a new perspective on things and give you training tips you may not have thought of, or at the very least reassure you that it's a puppy thing and that you're doing the right thing. 

Have you started puppy classes already? We get one-on-one help as part of our puppy classes so when we have questions we can call her or chat during class. 

Also, give your dog plenty of time with other dogs so that he can get all his nippiness out with them in a positive way. He needs an opportunity to let loose in a dog way.

With meeting people, honestly, we don't let our pup meet people unless a. he's calm, b. I'm absolutely sure the people are going to be calm and follow our instructions (tell him to sit, then pet him on the chest, if he gets up, stop petting him and stand up) Most people don't fall into that category. As soon as we hear the "OMG, A PUPPY!" we just walk across the street. If I see someone calm I will ask them if my puppy can meet them. Most of the time it's "sorry he is too excited to be pet right now". He gets plenty of human socialization at puppy class, at the dog park and at daycare, and in "controlled" situations with my friends and family.


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## Golden999 (Jun 29, 2010)

Jax's Mom said:


> First of all, how old is he?


About 3 1/2 months.



> He sounds like he is still quite young and the biting is more of a play issue, not agressiveness.


I think you are right. He is very bold and doesn't listen well, but I don't see him as an aggressive dog, and I think he is actually very trainable in some areas. It just seems like he sets himself in other areas and once he'd decided he's doing or not doing something, he digs in his heels. He actually reminds me a little of myself.



> The most important thing to do is not let people pet him if he is acting to "wild".


That's smart, but it's sort of a delicate situation sometimes, because I have lots of people kind of right on top of us. I have a very small yard that's shared with another apartment above me, and then there small yards to either side, one shared with a lot of people, the other not shared but with two apartments. People see the dog, who is very cute and friendly, and will yell to him from the top of roofs and from a distance and from cars and so on and so forth and run over to pet him. I don't mind this in theory, if the dog can behave, because I know goldens like to socialize and that's fine with me.

However, the tricky part is that the dog is not behaving, and to really keep people away from him, I'd have to basically behave like a compete jerk myself (Which has it's own perils -- when people are right on top of each other and don't get along, bad things tend to happen, two of my neighbors are involved in a court battle currently, for example). I've tried soft "Please pull your hand away if he bites and reprimand him" and it doesn't really work, they will say something like "no" in a nice tone to him and keep petting him -- which I understand, because they are not his owner, I used to do the same thing with dogs I didn't own.

These aren't folks who are close friends or family who I can really boss around in a way that you sometimes can with people who have close ties with you and will understand.

I've thought about leashing him at all times, even in the yard, but that's tricky to because he needs to have some running around exploring time back there (With supervision, of course -- I never leave him out there alone). I can walk him, and do, but I have health issues and can't walk him enough to really tire him out and provide all his exercise needs-- he needs to be able to run around a bit himself out there also.

It's a very tricky situation. Part of the reason I got a golden is because I knew it was highly important to have a friendly non-territorial obedient dog in this type of a situation. I have a neighbor with a more aggressive dog who's gotten into trouble over him already, and I wanted to avoid that.

I know he's just being playful and doesn't mean anything by it, and honestly if I were just by myself on a big farm or something, I'd let him play bite me to his heart's content. But I am in a situation where he will encounter lots of people who eventually won't take it very well, I would assume, so he really needs to stop.

I love this dog, and there are a lot of great things about him that don't panic me enough to post about them, he's definitely a good addition to my household, but these are things that really need to be addressed.



nixietink said:


> He is a puppy. Nobody is going to have a non-aggressive puppy put down


One would hope not, but sometimes I just don't know what people will and won't do nowadays. It's seems like the world was a lot different when I had my childhood dog. I worry a lot knowing that the leading cause of dog deaths is "poor socialization" (Which is really a euphemism for them being put down, I'm assuming).

A trainer might be a possibility in a few weeks. Might. Paying off the purchase price for the dog, getting all his vaccinations and vet visits and supplies and so forth, is costing me a huge amount of money and I was barely making it before. I can't even put gas in my car, let alone hire myself a dog trainer. I'm not complaining -- this is all a worthwhile sacrifice I knew I'd have to make coming in, and is worth it for my dog, but I don't necessarily have all options on the table when dealing with a situation like this. Ideally, it would be something I could handle somehow myself.


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## Golden999 (Jun 29, 2010)

He's an awesome dog in a lot of ways, by the way, and really adorable. Just because I'm having some issues with him, doesn't mean I don't love him. Didn't want anyone to take any of this the wrong way -- I am just panicked that he might get himself in trouble somehow with animal control or whatever by biting people who don't understand it's just a game to him. I know he's a good dog at heart, I just worry about how people will take him if he doesn't learn some discipline when it comes to biting and that sort of thing.


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

I absolutely don't think you are being a jerk for asking people not to pet him at certain times. You don't have to be mean, just "educational". I take every opportunity, especially when there is children, to tell them why it is not okay to run up to another person's dog and just pet it. Every time people react very positively when I explain why I'm saying what I'm saying. They enjoy being part of my "training team" if you phrase it that way. If there are people who interact with him frequently get them on your side, give them treats and ask them to ask the dog to do a sit EVERY time they see the dog, then reward.

I don't think you'll be able to get very far very fast in training the pup not to nip if people are not on the same page, including strangers, especially if they interact with him all the time.

PS: Don't worry, we don't think that you don't love your dog. We all vent about our puppies at least once (or twice, or ten time) on this forum.


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## kerribear's golden kids (May 17, 2007)

Being a Trainer and someone who deals with a TON of bite issue dogs in Rescue. 1st of all the thing You have to do is realize he is A DOG, 2nd thing YOU NEED to be the 1 in CHARGE of ANY Situation. I say this cause you said "He might get himself in trouble" Wrong attitude to have, You need to be the one to MAKE SURE that HE does NOT get himself in trouble.
3rd, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE talk to a trainer, go to a pet store and ASK QUESTIONS, they do not charge you for asking questions, if you have to, pretend that you are interested in signing up for a class and ASK Questions about BITING, NIPPING, etc....Another thing, Goldens are known for wanting things in their mouths it is a Retrievering thing for them, so take a toy or ball with you when you are out walking, playing and when he gets excited, give him the object instead...BUT, ALWAYS make him SIT and be calm before you give it to him, that way You are showing him You are in Charge...
Good Luck and do keep us posted...


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## Golden999 (Jun 29, 2010)

I have been trying to make him sit more recently, especially around people, and I think that helps reinforce authority and calm a little bit. He just gets *so* excited when people are around or he goes for a walk that I think a lot of it can fly right out the window, though. 

He really does love people -- at least for a minute or two, then he gets bored and goes to chew on a stick from a distance.  It is funny watching him get all excited and be overjoyed and then shortly thereafter be like "You people have lost your novelty for me, see you later". When this happens in the yard, people sometimes call him back and he just looks at them like "Didn't you get the hint when I walked away?". He is quite the character.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

I'll say it again, I really think he needs more exercise. The training is great, but if he has too much pent up energy he's going to be a pain in the butt! If you're not able to walk him much can you throw toys he likes and have him fetch them? Or maybe put a toy on a long rope if he's not great at fetching but likes to chase things? Just so you don't have to constantly get up.


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## Golden999 (Jun 29, 2010)

goldenjackpuppy said:


> I'll say it again, I really think he needs more exercise. The training is great, but if he has too much pent up energy he's going to be a pain in the butt! If you're not able to walk him much can you throw toys he likes and have him fetch them? Or maybe put a toy on a long rope if he's not great at fetching but likes to chase things? Just so you don't have to constantly get up.


I play fetch with him a lot with his chew toys indoors. He likes to go get them and then come up to me and play tug of war with them, and then go get them again when I win and throw them.

I also walk him to within the limits of what I'm capable of, which granted isn't as much as many dog owners who are healthier can do. But I know it's important, and actually him getting me out doing some light walking is one of the reasons I got him, because I know I need to do it (my doctor recommended it) and a dog is great motivation and a good companion for walking.

He really does seem to have limitless energy, though. I have a relative who we'll visit sometimes who'll do a walk-run (alternating back and forth) for an hour with him and he's still pretty chipper after wards. He'll drink a lot and rest a little, but he could probably do three of those in a day (Alright, maybe just two). I can't physically run, and a nice good walk once a day is more realistic for me, but I make sure to do everything I can, plus take advatange of when family and friends offer to help, and let him run in the yard a lot and play with other dogs and people around (though I may have to do my best to stop that if he won't stop biting).

I'm trying to extend his walk as much as I physically can, and I think I could do more if he'd walk nicely and stop jumping and biting the leash and whatnot. The more I can keep a steady pace with him and not have to bend over to correct him and tug at the leash and stuff, the more energy I am going to have for the actual walk. Unfortunately, it's hard to communicate that to a puppy.


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## Golden999 (Jun 29, 2010)

I am also trying to catch him when he is snapping air near me and looking like he is ready to bite to tell him things like "Remember not to bite" and "Love, not bite" gently.


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## gldnlvr (Jun 21, 2010)

'These aren't folks who are close friends or family who I can really boss around in a way that you sometimes can with people who have close ties with you and will understand.'

I don't think telling someone to not pet your dog is being "bossy" tell them he's in training please do not pet him he's not acting nicley or whatever you choose but it's not rude. 

Cash is just 3 months old and he bites he drew blood on me. I have found when he's tired, bored or needs to poop he gets a bit more nippy. I always tell him no bite and put a toy in his mouth and when he licks I tell him oh kisses good boy. We start puppy school on Sept 14th. If cost is an issue try your local library for training books and be consistent. I have not read this book but plan on Cash getting his GCC title and so forth. Maybe someone has read it and can tell you if its worth while. Just an idea.

http://www.akc.org/cgcbook/


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

1) Save up for puppy class and training class. This is JUST as important as vaccinations and other health care: http://www.avsabonline.org/avsabonline/images/stories/Position_Statements/puppy socialization.pdf
2) Training can be a substitute for exercise on days when you are not able to walk him enough to tire him or when you aren't feeling well or when it's just way too hot. If you get a couple books or spend some time watching quality video online or DVD's ....you'll be set to start him well. Silly tricks can help tire him out too.
3) He is not being bossy, dominant, or stubborn. He's just being a puppy. http://www.avsabonline.org/avsabonline/images/stories/Position_Statements/dominance statement.pdf
4) Definitely tell your neighbors to stay back. When your puppy knows how to sit, pass a treat to the people you meet on walks. They can ask puppy to sit. Give puppy a treat. And then YOU call your puppy to you for a few treats. This sets it up so puppy learns to sit for visitors. Puppy learns to then turn to you. Puppy does NOT learn to jump on visitors and puppy does NOT learn to bite at people for play. 
5) THe primary socialization period is typically described as ending at about 14-16 weeks. You CANNOT make up for training and socialization that is not done during this phase. YES learning still happens and behavior improves, but not at the rate or level it does at this state. Professionals can note any potential problems and they can be addressed with a much more likely chance for success at this stage. If you really really can't afford a class... pay for a private with a professional. Sure it will cost a lot for only 30 or 60 minutes but if it heads off problems late,r it will be worth it.....


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Golden999*

Golden999, Glad you posted for help.

*I agree with what gldnlvr said:

"I don't think telling someone to not pet your dog is being "bossy" tell them he's in training please do not pet him he's not acting nicley or whatever you choose but it's not rude."*


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## Chloe Braun (Aug 21, 2010)

One way to try and stop your puppy from biting is to make a grunt or short sharp sound that gives them a little jump. This will help your dog realise that the behavior is unacceptable and is not on.


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## Golden999 (Jun 29, 2010)

RedDogs said:


> He is not [...] dominant http://www.avsabonline.org/avsabonline/images/stories/Position_Statements/dominance%20statement.pdf


Tell that to the older _male_ dog he was aggressively humping the other day.  Some of his other favorite activities around that dog are draping his entire body over him (sometimes backwards with genitals to the face) and taking that dog's bones without using non-verbal signals that he is trying to play.

On the other hand, there is a larger dog from a more aggressive breed who he'll cower around and dip his head as low as possible around while getting down to the ground -- gestures of submission.

I actually don't think he is super dominant, just a little on the dominant side for a dog of his age and breed.

I get into some thoughts on dominance a bit in this thread:

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/showthread.php?t=83153&page=3

I am not one to totally buy into it ala Caser Milan, who I think risks losing sight of the fact that ultimately pets are around in part to be loved by their owners (i.e. I like to pet my dog a lot and praise him a lot, which I don't think would go over well with everyone from that school of thought), but I do think it has more merit than some give it credit for. I talk about why in the other thread at some length (I didn't think copy and pasting it would be appropriate because it might border on spamming, and folks who want to read can click over).



> THe primary socialization period is typically described as ending at about 14-16 weeks. You CANNOT make up for training and socialization that is not done during this phase.


He is a day or two from being 16 weeks, so that's water under the bridge to some degree. The good news, though, is that he does seem to be making some progress day by day.



Chloe Braun said:


> One way to try and stop your puppy from biting is to make a grunt or short sharp sound that gives them a little jump. This will help your dog realise that the behavior is unacceptable and is not on.


He does react to yelling, but not consistently. I see it as important tool to be able to raise my voice, but I'm actually trying to cut down on it and use some very soft-but-serious tones with him, because I think sometimes he gets used to me yelling "No bite!" at him all the time and tunes it out. Plus, I think he learns by example and I noticed the more I am loud with him, the more he seems to bark (Not back at me, but over the course of the day).

I am also a little sensitive to how it makes me look if he is, say, biting his leash and thrashing around on a walk, and I have to ultimately raise my voice, pull him over, and hold a hand around his jaw gently for a few seconds. I like to first, in that example, come to a dead stop and softly say "no bite" or "drop it", but a lot of times I can do that 10 times in a row as he just starts biting 2 seconds later and it repeats, so eventually I have to use a slightly harsher method that gets better results sometimes when all else fails. I worry that in this day and age some oversensitive person is going to consider something I do abusive and I'll have to deal with some sort of agency that investigates those sort of things. On the other hand, if the dog gets out of control and bites a child or something, that could lead to similar issues. It's sort of a catch-22 -- I guess in the end I just have to do what I consider to be the right thing, using the methods I think are best, and trust that people aren't as ridiculous about this stuff as I sometimes fear.

I really love the little guy and want him to grow to be a good happy obedient well-adjusted companion who'll be with me until he dies a natural death of old age a long, long time in the future. Most of the time I think we are getting there. It just takes time.

I remember a couple months ago when I first got him just looking at him and feeling so overwhelmed because we were already bonding and I knew he was counting on me and that I really wanted him to lead a good happy life as part of my family. It reminds me a lot of what people say being a parent is like.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

> Tell that to the older _male_ dog he was aggressively humping the other day.  Some of his other favorite activities around that dog are draping his entire body over him (sometimes backwards with genitals to the face) and taking that dog's bones without using non-verbal signals that he is trying to play.


Humping is almost never related to dominance in puppies. It's related to excitement. It doesn't matter if he's humping a male or a female, it's excitement that he doesn't know how to express. The backward with genitals towards the face is just a human perception of what is going on. Puppies don't have manners and they don't have really good social skills. They take toys when they want them and will continue to do so until an adult dog corrects them. That's how they learn manners and socialization.


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