# My Golden Girls Aren't So Golden



## sdain31y (Jul 5, 2010)

Dominance issues between two females? I'm sure you'll get great advice from the forum. Your girls are beautiful!


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## FinnTastic (Apr 20, 2009)

Bumping Up No advice, sorry. Are they both spayed?


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## jealous1 (Dec 7, 2007)

Unfortunately I had this same situation between two of my past female rescue dogs--both wanted to be the alpha bitch and neither would back down when they got into a fight even though one was much smaller and once got hurt pretty badly. I eventually rehomed one with a co-worker and his family and still get updates on her today (she is now 12 years old). While it was one of the hardest things I have had to do (I felt like a failure), I knew it was what was best for her and she has led a spoiled and pampered life. I wish I had more/better advice for you but maybe a good dog behaviorist can help you out? If it comes to the point that you do have to rehome one, please consider a golden retriever rescue--they will insure that whatever home she goes to it will be a good "fit" for her, whether it is an only dog family situation or a quiet home where someone is home all of the time and give her the attention she craves.


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

Due to the extent of the problems, how it is impacting your family, and the injuries sustained, it is best if you contact a veterinary behaviorist: 

American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior - AVSAB - Find An AVSAB Veterinarian 
Use that search and find someone who is a DACVB. If your dogs had heart problems, you would take them to see a heart specialist. If your dog had orthopedic problems you would take them to see an orthopedic specialist. Your dogs have behavior problems, they should be seen by behavior specialist.

The clinic may be open, call today to schedule an appointment.

In the mean time, keep them separated at all times. The dog who is not with you is crated. Only one dog is in your part of the house at a time. We are eliminating all possibility of fights. Even if this only happens on occasion, keep them separate until after your appointment and your vet behaviorist specifies otherwise.

Re: "Revenge poops." The dog who is not with you is stressed, wanting your attention too, and knows it's not appropriate to come up and ask because the other is there. And one reaction to stress is to eliminate. I have a dog that poops when stressed too. I manage her environment to decrease unplanned stressors, I have a training plan (with the help of a veterinary behaviorist) to teach her to NOT be stressed by various things. And if it happens... I remove her from the situation, clean up, and be SURE I'm more careful about management and training. If you start thinking about this behavior as "stress" rather than "revenge"..... it may help improve your feelings about your dogs. They're super worried and really can't help it. "revenge" implies that they have intentionally done it....and it's just not so.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

Great post Reddogs. I had never thought of explaining inappropriate pooping as stress pooping, but it is so true.

To Wherestheryan, make an appointment with a veterinary behaviorist and keep your girls separated right now. I would also recommend starting an obedience training class for each dog and do a lot of practicing. These two girls sound very insecure and stressed. Consistent positive reinforcement obedience training will make life more predictable and give them a greater sense of control over their own lives. This will help their confidence and reduce their stress levels. 

However, the visit to a veterinary behaviorist is the major step right now.


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## GoldensGirl (Aug 2, 2010)

*Thyroid disease causes behavioral problems*

You have gotten lots of good advice from others on the GRF, especially about consulting a behavioral specialist.

I will add something I just learned recently: thyroid disease can cause behavioral problems in dogs, including aggressive behavior. And hypothyroidism is common in Goldens. There are simple blood tests and the meds are not expensive, so this might be something to have your girls checked for.

Good luck with your Golden girls and your human family,
Lucy


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Welcome here*

WELCOME to you.
Sorry for the problems you are having, but you will get very good advice and suggestions here.

Have they been tested for thyroid problems?


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

You have gotten very good advice so far. I agree that the "revenge" pooping is due to stress, and so the stress needs to be managed. I would also run a full thyroid panel on each girl, remembering that low normal is low for a Golden and should be treated.

That said, aggression between two bitches can be really really bad. A behaviorist may be able to help you manage the aggression but you must be prepared for the fact that they may never really like each other.

Some bitches can get along with no problems while others simply cannot. Once you get the aggression managed, you can observe their interactions. If it's okay with you that they don't like each other as long as they aren't aggressive, great. If it's not, you may have a decision to make but it is too early to tell.

And the possibility exists that, once checked out for thyroid and treated if necessary, and once you have worked with a veterinary behaviorist, the girls may learn to enjoy, not just toleratee, each other's company.


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## WheresTheRyan (Sep 25, 2010)

Thank you all for the great insights! The revenge poops being made due to stress makes a lot of sense. 

The weird thing is, is that most of the time they both really like to be with each other. In fact they will cry if they are separated from each other. But then they lose their minds if the playing gets too rough or there's a toy they both want and then things get bloody. 

The youngest, Roxy, isn't spade yet. Is it possible that this could be a contributing factor?


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## Jax's Mom (Oct 16, 2009)

I would guess that spaying would make a difference. In either case, spaying is best for the dog, so you could start with that. Also, if fighting only happens when there are toys/treats, first thing you should do is NOT let them have toys unless they are physically separated. Put them in different rooms to play with their toys. This may be difficult, but if it resolves the fighting, then it would be worth the trouble.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

The younger girl being intact may be a factor, however getting her spayed may not solve the problem. I know that sounds confusing but I will try to explain. Your younger girl goes through hormone swings which affect her behavior, many females get b*tchy shortly before they go into heat and for the first part of her heat cycle (look at it as dog PMS). In addition, your older female will be aware of the hormone changes in the younger dog (most likely by scent). The hormone fluctuations in the younger girl will affect the older dog. If the older dog is used to the younger girl having a certain scent indicating a level of estrogen for example, and then the scent changes dramatically, she will smell different and the older girl may believe the difference in estrogen represents a threat to her.

Spaying the younger girl will help alter any b*tchiness when she approaches her heat, but will not alter her overall tendency to be or not be aggressive. If the older girl no longer smells hormone changes, she may be less likely to take offense to them. 

However, the hormone fluctuations may not be the problem at all, or the dice may have already been cast, they may have already formulated a pattern of aggression that may have begun with hormones, but has become just how they deal with each other. 

A veterinary behaviorist will take a detailed history which should include the relationship between the aggression and the younger girl's heat cycle that should help determine if this is a factor.


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## Popebendgoldens (May 16, 2008)

How much exercise are these 2 girls getting? They need more exercise than being in the back yard. I am under the belief that a tired dog is a happy dog. 

Again, get both girls involved in obedience or agility training. This will help the girls and you.


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## WheresTheRyan (Sep 25, 2010)

Just an update...I've been watching them closely for signs of agression ever since the younger one Roxy came out of heat. They aren't nearly as irritated by each other and when they do become defensive with their toys/bones it is resolved with out the bloody fights. So I'm very encouraged. I have also been keeping them in their kennel during the times that they would do the stress pooping. They don't seem to mind and there hasn't been any accidents in weeks. So maybe this was an exercise on my for better training...


As to the exercise question. I wear them out as often as I can. I'd like to say it's every day but the weekends are hard for us. They get minimal exercise on the weekends. But during the week they get worn out! I make sure all they want to do is take a nap when I get done with them

Thanks again to every one for the insights! I'll keep you all posted.


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