# Puppy front legs...



## aesthetic (Apr 23, 2015)

Looks like he's knuckling over. I think it's from growing too quickly/unevenly - what are you feeding him? I think I've heard that adding vit. C to the diet can help correct it, but hopefully one of the breeders/knowledgeable members can give their input.


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## Kenpup (Feb 1, 2020)

Thanks. Feeding him Royal Canin golden retriever puppy. 3 cups a day according to the breeder. I have cut back to 2.5 cups a day.


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## Kenpup (Feb 1, 2020)

Also, do I get human grade vitamin c or is there one specifically for dogs?


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

human tablets, not chewable since they may have sweeteners. Just stick a 250 in his food. 
start with half of one, then go to a whole then one and a half. If you go too fast he'll get diarrhea.


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## jeffscott947 (Jun 9, 2019)

Has your Vet offered an opinion?


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## Kenpup (Feb 1, 2020)

Thanks for the help.

We see the vet on Monday. During his initial appointment I had not noticed this problem and my pup was very sleepy so just laying on the exam table-


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

It is so common your vet isn't likely to note it or even worry about it when you point it out- but it is a nutritional issue and you can fix it.


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## Kenpup (Feb 1, 2020)

Thanks for helping with my worry!

After some research it seems I should switch him to adult food? And add the vitamin c.


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## Kenpup (Feb 1, 2020)

An adult dog food with low protein?


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## cwag (Apr 25, 2017)

I would put him on a large breed puppy food like Pro Plan or Eukanuba which has been formulated to slow bone growth.


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## jeffscott947 (Jun 9, 2019)

Kenpup said:


> Thanks for the help.
> 
> We see the vet on Monday. During his initial appointment I had not noticed this problem and my pup was very sleepy so just laying on the exam table-


Good for both of you!
The initial visit can be a busy time, and things can get missed. I have come to value the medical tech that is now present during the Vet's examination of my own dogs. They are constantly giving the dogs a once over and sometimes find things that the vet can miss. (My BC/Lab mix came from a farm and had a fly larvae under her skin..nasty thing). The vet was completely occupied with the internal exam when the tech made the discovery (it was alive too)
I suggest that if you are not satisfied after that visit....get another medical professional's opinion.
If it's nothing..all the better, and if it is something that needs attention....you will be in the right place


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Ewww. . fly bots are soooo gross!
Glad it is gone. 

I don't think it would hurt to put him on large breed puppy food, PPP makes a good one, as noted intended to slow growth. Or go to an all-age food either one. But the C you can add to either, and just don't give so much at once to cause loose stools, he'll be able to tolerate upping it over a period of days and it is water soluble so he'll pee out what he doesn't need. That should get him up on his pasterns again pretty quickly- a couple weeks.


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## Kenpup (Feb 1, 2020)

Thanks everyone.
I just gave him his first dose of vitamin c (125mg).

As I said, we are currently on Royal Canin Golden Retriever puppy. I will look into switching him to a grain inclusive, low protein kibble.


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## jeffscott947 (Jun 9, 2019)

I would recommend a kibble with NO CORN, NO WHEAT, and NO SOY. Look at the 1st 5 ingredients since those are the most weighted.
Who makes what food was indicted in this chart last year. Many brands, that used to be good foods were taken over by the big 4 and things have changed for the worse. I am one of the few HERE that won't feed a food made by Purina..or Mars for that matter.
Good luck with whatever you choose for your own pup!


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## aesthetic (Apr 23, 2015)

Prism is one of those knowledgeable board members I was talking about! I'm glad she chimed in.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Prism Goldens said:


> It is so common your vet isn't likely to note it or even worry about it when you point it out- but it is a nutritional issue and you can fix it.


I was just curious... is it very common for very young puppies to have this? Or could it be the food? 

I'm honestly trying to remember if mine went through this and I don't think so. They normally started having some nobbyness around the knees when about 4 months old? And that's a point where it makes more sense adding vitamin C or switching to adult food???? My younger two were fed PP regular puppy food (not large breed) until they were 6 months old and I don't remember their legs being off or them showing any growing issues.

Maybe switch to pro plan...!


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

Megora, as white as this puppy is who knows the quality of the breeding or care of mom & pups. But the pic sort of reminds me of rickets in kids. OP doesn't say what she is feeding or any background info so who knows. But totally agree with the knobie phase LOL I looked back at baby pics too


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Megora said:


> I was just curious... is it very common for very young puppies to have this? Or could it be the food?
> 
> I'm honestly trying to remember if mine went through this and I don't think so. They normally started having some nobbyness around the knees when about 4 months old? And that's a point where it makes more sense adding vitamin C or switching to adult food???? My younger two were fed PP regular puppy food (not large breed) until they were 6 months old and I don't remember their legs being off or them showing any growing issues.
> 
> Maybe switch to pro plan...!


It is fairly common I would say.. and yes, it's about that point at which many puppies get down on pasterns-4-6 mo- and nobby kneed. 
OP is on Royal Canin, which also should be fine for puppy. I guess every time food is brought up we'll get the thrill of seeing that stupid chart...


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## Kenpup (Feb 1, 2020)

Hi there,
OP here. I have actually mentioned twice in this thread that I feed the pup Royal Canin golden retriever puppy food as that is what the breeder was feeding.
I specifically did not mention the breeder as I did not want to get into a blame game. I found the breeder on this forum and after a few years of waiting we brought home our baby 2 weeks ago. The mom and littermates were cared for impeccably. Yes, I have already been in contact with the breeder and they are concerned and very helpful and supportive.
This is my third golden and by far the easiest at this age, thanks to the breeder. He is smart, gentle, amazing bite inhibition, socialized, training super easy, and a happy tail wagging pup.
Choose kindness.


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## LZL (Feb 2, 2020)

I think I can help you.
I’m currently dealing with the knuckling over of my puppy. She started doing it at 8 weeks old and is now 11 weeks and much better. What I see in your picture it’s very mild/the begin stage. Don’t want to scare you but it can get worse before it gets better. But the prognosis is usually great. So keep your head up. 
I got my information from an orthopedic specialist and a physiotherapist. (and reading a lot online).
The medical name is “carpal laxity syndrome”. It basically means the muscles aren’t strong enough to hold the puppy’s weight. (or the muscle is too long/short/whatever). It happens mostly in medium and giant size dogs. Things you can do:

do not overfeed. How heavier your pup is, how harder it is for him to hold himself.
keep his growth as slow as possible. I read you feed Royal Canin (I did too, but switched). The proteine, calcium and phosfor is a little bit on the high side in this brand). You should feed a brand with lower proteine (under 24%). Calcium should be 1 and phosfor 0,8. I can’t recommend you a brand because I’m from a different country and you probably dont have the same there. Also watch out with the treats, read the ingredients, a lot of proteine and calcium is a NO.
you can supplement vitamine C. I give my puppy 500mg a day. Some people give really high doses of 1500mg. You should decide for yourself. (I don’t really know a lot about supplements so I keep it on the safe side  ). The brand you should use is “ester C”, there are different types of vit C and your dog can’t absorb them all. So buy ester C and you’re safe. I know ester C has calcium in it, but it’s okay in this case.
do stretching excerices with your puppy. let him stand with his front paw on something high. Let him put weight on it, and help him in the correct position. Or teach him to shake hands (give paw). be creative. It’s all about getting the muscles stronger in the wrist. Every movement where your dog is standing the correct way is helping. Go swimming if the tempreture allows it.
if the knuckling gets really bad you can use a brace / bandage. But it’s not your first choice because it slows the muscle growth. Only do this if the knucking gets worse.

The knuckling should go away in a few weeks. If you don’t trust it go to your vet and make some pictures. warning: a lot of vets don’t know anything about this problem or how to handle it. Some give horrible advice like supplementing calcium which will make things only worse.

okay this is all I know, sorry for my english, it’s not my own language haha. good luck with your pup!


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## LZL (Feb 2, 2020)

Oh, I wanted to add something. Your puppy doesn’t have to be restricted to crate rest or things like that. He can just walk around. If you let him run free outside, it’s okay. But make it short. Don’t let him get really tired, because it will probably make the knuckling worse or the paws shaking. Short but frequent walks are better than long tiring walks.


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## Kenpup (Feb 1, 2020)

LZL said:


> I think I can help you.
> I’m currently dealing with the knuckling over of my puppy. She started doing it at 8 weeks old and is now 11 weeks and much better. What I see in your picture it’s very mild/the begin stage. Don’t want to scare you but it can get worse before it gets better. But the prognosis is usually great. So keep your head up.
> I got my information from an orthopedic specialist and a physiotherapist. (and reading a lot online).
> The medical name is “carpal laxity syndrome”. It basically means the muscles aren’t strong enough to hold the puppy’s weight. (or the muscle is too long/short/whatever). It happens mostly in medium and giant size dogs. Things you can do:
> ...


Thank you SO much for this informative post!! It was incredibly helpful and reassuring!?


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

LZL said:


> Oh, I wanted to add something. Your puppy doesn’t have to be restricted to crate rest or things like that. He can just walk around. If you let him run free outside, it’s okay. But make it short. Don’t let him get really tired, because it will probably make the knuckling worse or the paws shaking. Short but frequent walks are better than long tiring walks.


Or even better - take him places where he gets to run loose. At 10 weeks old, they don't need a ton of exercise!


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## Kenpup (Feb 1, 2020)

Megora said:


> Or even better - take him places where he gets to run loose. At 10 weeks old, they don't need a ton of exercise!


I wish I could find a place I felt safe doing this...


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## LZL (Feb 2, 2020)

How is your puppy doing now?


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## Kenpup (Feb 1, 2020)

LZL said:


> How is your puppy doing now?


 The problem is still there. To be honest it’s hard to tell if it’s any better or any worse! His right leg seems to be a little worse and will shake at times but it does not slow him down at all!! He’s quite a little character. We saw at the vet yesterday and she had a hard time diagnosing what it actually was. We got a referral to the local Veterinary teaching hospital and I’ve already made an appointment there. I’ve added the vitamin C to his daily diet and also I’m in the process of changing His kibble. I really hope by the time his appointment comes at the veterinary teaching hospital that the issue would’ve resolved itself. He such a happy active good boy it is very hard to believe this is anything serious.

Thanks for asking ?


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

Thanks for the update! Hope all goes well at the teaching hospital and anxious to hear their thoughts.


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## Sunkota (Sep 30, 2010)

I don't think you need t worry about it, very common in GR puppies. I would move to a "large breed puppy" food (gradually). Around teething time they can also go "down in the pasterns" and feet splay, it will pass.


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## LZL (Feb 2, 2020)

Thanks for the update. Yeah, knuckling doesn’t cause pain to your puppy. So it’s normal that he is still running around haha. And the shaking is normal too. My puppy did it all the time when she was knuckling over.
Good that you’re changing his food!
The general vet isn’t educated on this problem. So it doesn’t surprise me he referred you to the hospital. Always good to check things out, even if it’s only for your own stress level lol
Your puppy is gonna be fine!


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Glad you updated. Like I mentioned earlier, most vets wouldn't see this- it's so typical they probably don't even notice, and unless they themselves are breeders/competitors, it probably just looks like every other quick growing puppy's legs. To a breeder/exhibitor, it looks like an easy fix that is nutritional and a function of growth. I call it dropped pasterns, some call it knuckling- same thing though and by the time he's been worked up to 500 mg a couple times a day without GI distress he will be over it!


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## Kenpup (Feb 1, 2020)

I want to thank everyone for your advice and support and knowledge . It has truly set my mind at ease and given me the info to help my baby. I have had dogs my whole life and this boy is something special❤


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## elisterine (Feb 27, 2019)

This happened to us and went away as he got bigger . Made me so nervous the first time I saw it but it's not a problem at all anymore. Our vet was unfamiliar with it but was pretty unconcerned. I've got all sorts of video of just the same thing happening as you describe and show.


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## Kenpup (Feb 1, 2020)

What a difference a week makes! On vitamin C and still weaning to a lower protein kibble and his little legs are SO much better!!


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Great to hear he's doing so well.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

I am so glad! It's a pretty normal thing to have happen, which is why most vets don't even see it.


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## Ffcmm (May 4, 2016)

Hello!! I was recommended on another tread I posted to start some Vitmin C as well and I was wondering about the dosage. I saw Prism recommended around 250mg starting? For how Long should I give this for to straighten things out? 

Pic of my 4 month old and his knobby front legs!! 











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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Ffcmm said:


> Hello!! I was recommended on another tread I posted to start some Vitmin C as well and I was wondering about the dosage. I saw Prism recommended around 250mg starting? For how Long should I give this for to straighten things out?
> 
> Pic of my 4 month old and his knobby front legs!!
> 
> ...



Prism posted this on the first page of this thread-it's post #5-



> human tablets, not chewable since they may have sweeteners. Just stick a 250 in his food.
> start with half of one, then go to a whole then one and a half. If you go too fast he'll get diarrhea.


Prism also posted this above, it's post #31-




> Glad you updated. Like I mentioned earlier, most vets wouldn't see this- it's so typical they probably don't even notice, and unless they themselves are breeders/competitors, it probably just looks like every other quick growing puppy's legs. To a breeder/exhibitor, it looks like an easy fix that is nutritional and a function of growth. I call it dropped pasterns, some call it knuckling- same thing though and by the time he's been worked up to 500 mg a couple times a day without GI distress he will be over it!


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## Ffcmm (May 4, 2016)

CAROLINA MOM said:


> Prism posted this on the first page of this thread-it's post #5-
> 
> 
> 
> Prism also posted this above, it's post #31-


Thank you! Ok I will work our dosage up till 500mg then! 


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Be absolutely certain you do not buy chewable tablets that have sweeteners in them. Just get the plain old (or if you want more bioavailable, the esterC) tablets not meant to be palatable for humans.


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