# Dominance/Agression Continues in my 7mo. old



## gold'nchocolate (May 31, 2005)

Your dog *is* trainable but IMHO you are coming at his training from the wrong direction. What did your vet tell you that you needed to do to "effectively handle" him? There are lots of people on here that can probably answer you in a more complete way but I really don't see that harshness will get you very far. As Dr. Phil says, "How's it working for you?".

May I suggest a couple of dog training books that use positive training methods? 
"Before and After Getting Your Puppy" by Dr. Ian Dunbar

"Puppy Perect" by Sarah Hodgson

"The Power of Positive Dog Training" by Pat Miller

"Let The Dog Decide" by Dale Stavroff

I hope you will look at some of these books. I also have a dominant male and he has been a challenge but I have found that these methods *do* work. Good luck.


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## Chase'sMom (Jul 31, 2007)

My Sammy was the pup from Hades. He was jaws on paws and very aggressive. This was back in the late 80's and I was told to get him on his back and hold him there, to put him in submissive. I'm only 5 ft and he was big. However, I would cover myself in leather and get him on his back and literally lie on top of him to hold him down, until he stopped struggling. It helped some, but the real miracle was when he became deathly sick. The vet had no idea what was wrong with him, but he would fall over on his side, vomiting green stuff. I took him home and had to force feed him liquids for a day or two before he started to come round. After that he was as docile as a lamb. Amazing, huh? Sammy ended up having the softest mouth and most loving attitude towards anything living. Fantastic dog and he was my best friend!


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## Goldenhandful (May 14, 2007)

Thank you for the book advice, a couple I've heard of, other 2, not. You are absolutely right! I probably am coming at this the wrong way, but we've tried soooo many ways (positive reinforcement, Cesar Milan's way, my vet's way, you name it). We went with positive reinforcement for almost 2 months maybe more solid. I have more sweat pants, jeans, shirts, etc. that are ripped to shreads b/c of turning my back and trying to walk away as recommended in our training that used positive reinforcement. It really seemed to encourage some of his dominance like the humping, stepping on my feet, jumping. The only thing that has stuck at all is NLIF and when he was picked up by the scruff, although that's clearly not an option now as he's huge!! I'll try anything because I can't even control him anymore when we're out.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

This may sound simple, but when he has something like a piece of paper have you tried getting him to "sit" or getting him to do a "down", or even "come" then ask him to "give" and once he completes that positive behavior give him his ball (or something he's passionate about) or a treat? 

I may be way off here with this question or suggestion. I'm relating this not to my dogs because we don't have this issue, but to my son! LOL. If I corrected him like the Good Fairy God Mother when he was doing something wrong, he responded positively. Raise your voice, he raised his! Thank God he's a young adult and something worked!

I've also found Tucker will bring me what he has taken off with if I say, "Show me!" and let him come to me. If I pursue him, he'd take off and make it a game of chase. It took me awhile to realize all I really have to do is say, "Sit" "Stay" and he doesn't move.


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## Ant (Feb 25, 2007)

Went through this with George 6 weeks or so ago and with the help of the great folks here and a private trainer problem solved.

For starters George wasn't showing 'aggression' as I feared but was merely being a smart, spoiled puppy testing me whenever he could.

One big thing I learned was that I was saying NO too much. My fear of him eating something and getting sick made me say NO everytime he had something I thought bad in his mouth. So when he finally got ahold of something HE thought was way cool he'd growl and snap at me if I tried to take it away like paper under the bed!

The last time (and I mean last) he growled at me I grabbed his nose with my hand, grabbed him by the neck with the other and told him loudly 'YOU DON'T GROWL AT ME GODDAMNIT!!!!" Can't tell you how guilty I felt doing that but it sure worked.


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## Ardeagold (Feb 26, 2007)

Sometimes it IS a matter of being tough. Some dogs just push and push and push until you become timid or just let them have their way. Then...they win.

There's nothing wrong with being angry, and letting them know it. They have to learn when enough is enough.....and that there are things you will NOT tolerate, ever.

With these dogs, you must earn their respect, or they're going to walk all over you, literally.

And Ant is right. "No" is too generic. That's why when training, it's recommended that you use different terms for what you want. Like "OFF" for get off me/that. "Down" for lie down, now. Sit...stay...heel....leave it...are all terms that your dog can and will learn if you use them consistently. They're not stupid at all, and can learn what each command means, easily. It's up to you to be consistent when telling them what you want, and don't want.

Yelling isn't something you need to do.....but your tone speaks volumes to them, even if you're very quiet. They read body language......and intonation well. They know when you mean it.

It's best to keep your voice low and even (if you'll notice, dogs give a warning growl when they're annoyed, and it's VERY low and soft, but it sends a clear message...before they snarl and lunge)...and your hands to yourself when you're training a dog. The more confident you are......the more power you have. Let him know you mean business, just by your demeanor.

Ant...grabbing by the scruff of the neck and yelling probably shocked him silly :lol: Some dogs will learn from this....definitely. And I don't think you were wrong to do it. But other dogs would bite your face off. So before anybody tries it........be forewarned that not all dogs respond well to being manhandled. Others do. Know your dog before you try it, or be SO angry that you're willing to take the risk. (I think Ant is in the latter category...right Ant?? Don't feel bad...I've been there, and done that.)


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

I really feel for you....I would be in quite a pickle if I had to worry everytime Lucky had something in his mouth...especially at that age. Lucky has never had issues with guarding anything other then bones and food. 

Personally I think Barkley is trainable as it sounds like he views himself as head of household. But I would never trust him around young kids due to the fact he's bitten quite often. 

If Barkley is responding well from what your Dad did, perhaps you can make him spill the beans and learn from it.


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## Ant (Feb 25, 2007)

Ardeagold said:


> Sometimes it IS a matter of being tough. Some dogs just push and push and push until you become timid or just let them have their way. Then...they win.
> 
> There's nothing wrong with being angry, and letting them know it. They have to learn when enough is enough.....and that there are things you will NOT tolerate, ever.
> 
> ...


Both.

And I still feel guilty:


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## Ardeagold (Feb 26, 2007)

Ant... You didn't hurt him. Maybe you knocked his ego down a peg or two, which doesn't sound like a bad thing to me.

Oh...and guess what? If you don't keep up the tough exterior sometimes, he'll probably try it once more, just to see if you meant it. LOL

No point in feeling guilty. Do you think HE feels guilty when he growls/snarls at YOU? Heck no. Guilt, in these instances, are not in a dog's "vocabulary".


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## Goldenhandful (May 14, 2007)

OK, I can't quote all of you, but you've all touched on things I DEFINATELY agree with and things I will try (e.g. Kimm's comment on "show me what you have in your mouth" - it's worth a shot). I've never had to "get rough" with a dog before this one (again, no one has EVER hit my dog, just handling him by the scruff). This is how my vet told us to handle Barkley when he was acting dominant and wouldn't listen. 

I spoke with my parents today and they said he's been an angel. He's been great off-leash and listening to my dad on all commands. I'm simply amazed. And Andrea, you're on to something with "tone", that's exactly what my dad was saying he did with Barkley keep his tone low and words short. He said I try and have too many converstions with the dog when he's bad...probably true. :doh:


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