# PPP and now 2 years old with skin issues



## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

The jist... Dogs develop sensitivities to food ingredients over time. The longer they are on the same food the higher the chance they will develop the sensitivity. Dogs develop the sensitivity to any proteins and in the highest concentrations. So if there are more grains in the food then meats, it's likely the grains will be the issue like corn, soy, brown rice, wheat. It can also be the meat if that is a higher concentration. 

Changing food to what the dog hasn't been exposed to before if what you do. This also means NO TREATS that has when he had before. So if you switch to a salmon based food then only off freeze dried salmon (single source treats) so you're not causing issues with the treats and think the food isn't working.

It is a process if you're suspecting the food, which is normally the case with sensitivities.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Environmental allergies account for 90% of all allergies in dogs, food allergies only 10%. It's unusual to find food allergies in a dog that doesn't also have environmental allergies. Environmental allergies manifest themselves with skin conditions, and tend to show up around age 18 months - 2 years. Food allergies tend to show up earlier.
Chances are that your vet is suggesting the hydrolyzed protein diet to determine if it's diet related at all. If, after 12 weeks on the hydrolyzed protein the dog is still having problems, most likely the main culprit isn't food. For that reason I'd highly recommend a 12 week trial of that, with nothing else, so you can find the cause of the problem.
That said, grain allergies are pretty low on the list of usual allergens, which are, in order, dairy, beef, lamb, chicken, eggs, soy and gluten (usually wheat).
For that reason some dogs do well on the PPP sensitive skin and stomach salmon based food, which has none of the above.
Unfortunately, while food allergies are much easier to deal with than environmental allergies, they usually aren't the (only) culprit.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Welcome!

I've been feeding the PPP SSS salmon formula for 9 years. My guy had a sensitive stomach and was having stomach problems. His coat and skin benefits greatly from this formula, he's got a nice coat and hasn't had any skin problems including hot spots. 

I also only give Salmon treats, I buy Salmon Plato Pets Treats, if I give another protein source, my boy has an upset stomach.

Take a look at the cleaning products you use in your house-I mainly clean with white vinegar and water. I use a pet safe floor cleaner on my wood flooring. I also do not use any weed & feed or pesticides on my yard or in my house.


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

As of 2018 that is not correct. Food allergies are almost always the underlying issue. You rarely get an environmental allergy without food sensitivities as dogs develop their sensitivities over time. It's when the immune system is already having issues do other reactions start.

It's like how people say oh, you're feeding chicken, it must be the chicken that's causing the issue. But in fact, beef is #1, lamb is #2 and chicken is #3 in most reported cases of sensitivities. And chicken is in over 85% of all formulas. Is what they are exposed to most frequently and in the highest concentrations is what they develop the sensitivities to.

Grain sensitivities is the most common as very few foods offer a meat Neal like chicken meal before grain. This means there are higher concentrations of grain proteins that that is meat proteins. This is the mist common misconception and one a lot of regular vet practitioners tell people.


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

CAROLINA MOM said:


> Welcome!
> 
> I've been feeding the PPP SSS salmon formula for 9 years. My guy had a sensitive stomach and was having stomach problems. His coat and skin benefits greatly from this formula, he's got a nice coat and hasn't had any skin problems including hot spots.
> 
> ...


You can buy any type of fish treat fyi. For dogs, the body sees chicken, duck, turke, not poultry. Same with red meat but they do not see menhaden fish, or salmon. They see fish so fish it either on or off. Machine is they can have salmon, they can have any fish. If they have issues with one fish they can't handle any other type.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Maggie'sVoice said:


> You can buy any type of fish treat fyi. For dogs, the body sees chicken, duck, turke, not poultry. Same with red meat but they do not see menhaden fish, or salmon. They see fish so fish it either on or off. Machine is they can have salmon, they can have any fish. If they have issues with one fish they can't handle any other type.


I buy Salmon vs. beef, chicken, turkey or chicken based treats. 

I have tried various products from different companies, I like and prefer Plato Pets Treats because it is a US based company, they are located in CA. Their products are made in house and are made with US based sourced ingredients.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Quite honestly.... I would just switch the food since this started when you put her on the adult food.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Dog Allergies: Symptoms and Treatment – American Kennel Club


Have you heard someone tell you that their dog has allergies? Has your veterinarian suggested that allergies could be a problem for your dog? Do you suspec




www.akc.org




:
True food allergies may not be as common as people think, according to AKC Chief Veterinary Officer Dr. Jerry Klein. True food allergies result in an immune response, which can range in symptoms from skin conditions (hives, facial swelling, itchiness), gastrointestinal signs (vomiting and/or diarrhea) or a combination of both. In some rare cases, a severe reaction resulting in anaphylaxis can occur—similar to severe peanut allergies in humans






Food Allergies in Dogs


Food allergy is one of the five most common allergies or hypersensitivities known to affect dogs. In a pet with an allergy, the immune system overreacts and produces antibodies to substances that it would normally tolerate. In the dog, the signs of food allergy are usually itchy skin or...




vcahospitals.com




:
The most common food allergens in dogs are proteins, especially those from dairy products, beef, lamb, chicken, chicken eggs, soy or gluten (from wheat). Each time a pet eats food containing these substances, the antibodies react with the antigens and symptoms occur.

https://https://vetericyn.com/blog/seasonal-allergies-vs-food-allergies-in-dogs-whats-the-difference/2017/01/food-allergies/ :
"Although the symptoms of food and seasonal allergies can be similar, the latter occur far more frequently. According to Tufts University’s Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine, chances are your dog doesn’t have a food allergy.
Suspected food allergy is a common reason people come to the nutrition clinic at Tufts. By the time they get here, they’ve often tried five, six, seven different diets. But if they all have different ingredients and the dog is not any better, it’s probably not a food allergy. Of those dogs whose owners think they may have a food allergy, perhaps only 10 percent or less actually do."

Allergies in Dogs: What You Need to Know :
"Food allergies are less common than environmental allergies, but are still present in 10–15% of allergy patients".

Our Pets and Allergies: Knowing the Difference Between Environmental and Food Allergies • Lollypop Farm :
Food allergies account for about 10% of skin allergies in pets. The allergen in these cases is usually to a protein in the food, such as chicken or beef, but can also be to a carbohydrate, preservative, or food dye. These allergies are generally treated by feeding the pet a limited ingredient diet that contains a novel protein that the animal has never eaten before..." (Dec. 2017)

Allergies in dogs – understanding the signs and what to do next :
Allergies in dogs generally fall under three categories – flea allergies, environmental allergies and, less commonly, food allergies."

Should I go on?

Of course, I'm more than happy to read the sources you cite.









Maggie'sVoice said:


> As of 2018 that is not correct. Food allergies are almost always the underlying issue. You rarely get an environmental allergy without food sensitivities as dogs develop their sensitivities over time. It's when the immune system is already having issues do other reactions start.
> 
> It's like how people say oh, you're feeding chicken, it must be the chicken that's causing the issue. But in fact, beef is #1, lamb is #2 and chicken is #3 in most reported cases of sensitivities. And chicken is in over 85% of all formulas. Is what they are exposed to most frequently and in the highest concentrations is what they develop the sensitivities to.
> 
> Grain sensitivities is the most common as very few foods offer a meat Neal like chicken meal before grain. This means there are higher concentrations of grain proteins that that is meat proteins. This is the mist common misconception and one a lot of regular vet practitioners tell people.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

> The most common food allergens in dogs are proteins, especially those from dairy products, beef, lamb, chicken, chicken eggs, soy or gluten (from wheat). Each time a pet eats food containing these substances, the antibodies react with the antigens and symptoms occur.


And this is why I feed PPP SSS-salmon and only salmon treats. If I give treats that are a different protein source, the symptoms occur-loose stools or diarrhea.

I never give table scraps or people food, do occasionally give fresh fruits and veggies.


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## DblTrblGolden2 (Aug 22, 2018)

Duke was fed PPP Lg Breed Puppy Chicken as a puppy. He was then switched to PPP Sport 30/20 Chicken and did great on it until he was around 7 years old. He started having some itching and I thought it was environmental. One night his face swelled and he developed hives (yes dogs get hives). After an ER Vet appt we figured out he had developed a sever allergy to chicken. He had to go on PPP Hydrolyzed Protein Vegetarian option due to the regular hydrolyzed protein still containing enough chicken that the Purina Nutrition staff and vets didn't feel 100% safe putting him on it. He refused to eat it, we suffered through it for a while but it wasn't a long term option. I put him on PPP Sensitive Skin and Stomach Lamb and Oat and he has done well. After extensive conversations with Purina Nutritionists through the RX Food Dept. I was told that The PPP SSS Lamb & Oat is the only food other then the hydrolyzed protein that can't be cross contaminated by chicken. 

As a side note I do agree that most dog allergies are environmental. Duke also developed other health issues around that time and I'm not convinced some of his issues weren't due to immune system problems in general. I now get him a Cytopoint injection about twice a year for seasonal allergies and swear by them.

** If his reaction hadn't been so severe the cross contamination levels wouldn't be a problem.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Cytopoint injections have been a real game changer for dogs with allergies. I boarded several dogs who got them, and they made a world of difference in their quality of life.



DblTrblGolden2 said:


> Duke was fed PPP Lg Breed Puppy Chicken as a puppy. He was then switched to PPP Sport 30/20 Chicken and did great on it until he was around 7 years old. He started having some itching and I thought it was environmental. One night his face swelled and he developed hives (yes dogs get hives). After an ER Vet appt we figured out he had developed a sever allergy to chicken. He had to go on PPP Hydrolyzed Protein Vegetarian option due to the regular hydrolyzed protein still containing enough chicken that the Purina Nutrition staff and vets didn't feel 100% safe putting him on it. He refused to eat it, we suffered through it for a while but it wasn't a long term option. I put him on PPP Sensitive Skin and Stomach Lamb and Oat and he has done well. After extensive conversations with Purina Nutritionists through the RX Food Dept. I was told that The PPP SSS Lamb & Oat is the only food other then the hydrolyzed protein that can't be cross contaminated by chicken.
> 
> As a side note I do agree that most dog allergies are environmental. Duke also developed other health issues around that time and I'm not convinced some of his issues weren't due to immune system problems in general. I now get him a Cytopoint injection about twice a year for seasonal allergies and swear by them.
> 
> ** If his reaction hadn't been so severe the cross contamination levels wouldn't be a problem.


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

That's why it's called sensitivities. True allergies is anaphylactic reaction. People call these allergies most of the time.

Reactions aren't uncommon, in fact they are highly common. And reactions to the protein in the grains is the more common between grain and meat proteins.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

*Anaphylaxis*
Anaphylaxis is a severe, potentially life-threatening allergic reaction. It can occur within seconds or minutes of exposure to something you're allergic to, such as peanuts or bee stings.
Anaphylaxis causes your immune system to release a flood of chemicals that can cause you to go into shock — your blood pressure drops suddenly and your airways narrow, blocking breathing. Signs and symptoms include a rapid, weak pulse; a skin rash; and nausea and vomiting... Anaphylaxis requires an injection of epinephrine and a follow-up trip to an emergency room. If you don't have epinephrine, you need to go to an emergency room immediately. If anaphylaxis isn't treated right away, it can be fatal.

2020 Mayo Foundation for Medical Education and Research (MFMER). All rights reserved.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Please cite scientific sources for this opinion. I can't find any, everything I find says the opposite.

[QUOTE="Maggie'sVoiced reactions to the protein in the grains is the more common between grain and meat proteins.
[/QUOTE]


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## tatatot (Jun 18, 2020)

LaniGolden said:


> Hi,
> 
> We have a 2 year golden, recently switched off Pro Plan Puppy to Pro Plan Adult and seem to be having some allergy problems with skin irritation. We're going to get her tested soon but were wondering what if any experience people had with PP Focus Sensitive Stomach & Skin - Salmon & Rice Formula? We were also pointed to Royal Canin Hydrolyzed Protein Adult HP but I'm cringing at the $95 for a 25lb bag.
> 
> ...


have them check for ichthyosis- its genetic and my pup has it


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## aesthetic (Apr 23, 2015)

hotel4dogs said:


> Environmental allergies account for 90% of all allergies in dogs, food allergies only 10%. It's unusual to find food allergies in a dog that doesn't also have environmental allergies. Environmental allergies manifest themselves with skin conditions, and tend to show up around age 18 months - 2 years. Food allergies tend to show up earlier.
> Chances are that your vet is suggesting the hydrolyzed protein diet to determine if it's diet related at all.


This was my experience as well.

I switched Kaizer onto PPP SSS salmon in Nov. 2017 to see if it would help his skin issues - he was 18 months old at the time. A month later, he started vomiting while on the food, and the vets had us put him on Royal Canin Hydrolyzed Protein. I kept him on a STRICT food trial for 10 (!) months and nothing got better.

Long story short, he ended up diagnosed with severe environmental allergies (I did a skin allergy test at UPenn). The HP diet was needed to cross potential food allergies off the table, but it turns out that Kaizer does not have any food issues whatsoever. I have not found a solution to prevent his scabs and the massive rashes he gets, but I have had really good luck with Cytopoint to stop his itching and keep him more comfortable. One Cytopoint injection lasts him about 7 weeks.

He's actually doing really great right now. Still has rashes, but it's not irritated or swollen or anything. As far as food, I do like 50/50 kibble and raw. The kibble is PPP SSS Lamb (he's doing great on that) and I alternate raw brands depending on what I feel like feeding lol.


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## LaniGolden (Jun 11, 2020)

Thank you all for your responses to-date. Today she is heading to the dermatologist for some testing and likely a cytopoint injection for right now. We have yet to switch the food, but will be following the dermatologist recommendations and I'll post back the process and results.

All the feedback is much appreciated.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Thanks for the update, let us know how it goes with the dermatologist.


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## LaniGolden (Jun 11, 2020)

So the dermatologist has her on a royal canin veterinary diet - PR - rabbit, potato, hydrolized soy for ~ 8+ weeks. Were told to take away/remove any chew toys with flavor as well as the elk horns that we give her. She also received a cytopoint injection. We had been bathing her with a dermatologist recommended shampoo 3x/week which has helped but she did have a slight secondary bacteria skin infection which is being treated by oral antibiotics. We got more of the shampoo from the vet today.

Next step is observational with the expectation that the injection will have an impact. We will see how she does with the food change roughly 8 weeks from now when the cytopoint will have worn off. The expectation is that the issues are environmental but this will help rule out other possibilities and the next step beyond is allergy testing which we got a quote for. Roughly $1k so quite the expense, but I expect we will be going down that path unless this solves the problem.

As before all of your posts and insight have been greatly appreciated. It's been so hard seeing her suffer and already the cytopoint injection has made an immediate impact.


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## aesthetic (Apr 23, 2015)

Yeah sounds about right. I did the HP first and then the PR with my boy - neither were helpful in his case, but I do know people whose dogs benefited from those diets.

I'm assuming they're doing a food elimination trial? Make sure you take out EVERYTHING that is flavored, even your monthly heartworm and flea/tick if you use an oral. There are companies that make compounded versions of medication without the flavorings, I'm sure your vet can point you in the right direction.


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## LaniGolden (Jun 11, 2020)

Yes thats exactly what they are doing. Already got a flea/tick replacement for the next couple of months. It stinks to remove the nylabones and elk chews but we got some rubber chew toys for her.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Thanks for updating.
The cytopoint injction might or might not wear off in 8 weeks. Luckily for some, it can last much longer although the average is about a month.
It makes a huge difference for a lot of dogs.


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## Charlie_Boy (Apr 21, 2020)

Maggie'sVoice said:


> As of 2018 that is not correct. Food allergies are almost always the underlying issue. You rarely get an environmental allergy without food sensitivities as dogs develop their sensitivities over time. It's when the immune system is already having issues do other reactions start.
> 
> It's like how people say oh, you're feeding chicken, it must be the chicken that's causing the issue. But in fact, beef is #1, lamb is #2 and chicken is #3 in most reported cases of sensitivities. And chicken is in over 85% of all formulas. Is what they are exposed to most frequently and in the highest concentrations is what they develop the sensitivities to.
> 
> Grain sensitivities is the most common as very few foods offer a meat Neal like chicken meal before grain. This means there are higher concentrations of grain proteins that that is meat proteins. This is the mist common misconception and one a lot of regular vet practitioners tell people.


Should this be interpreted to mean that food should be regularly changed to avoid sensitivities? Or rather that if a sensitivity to certain ingredients occurs, then switch to a food that has a different protein and/or grain?

Our older dog (not a golden) has skin problems and possible environmental allergies, and he has been fed bites of a variety of people-food meats his entire life. Should this be avoided in my 5 month old golden in terms of the same future issues, in your opinion?


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

Charlie_Boy said:


> Should this be interpreted to mean that food should be regularly changed to avoid sensitivities? Or rather that if a sensitivity to certain ingredients occurs, then switch to a food that has a different protein and/or grain?
> 
> Our older dog (not a golden) has skin problems and possible environmental allergies, and he has been fed bites of a variety of people-food meats his entire life. Should this be avoided in my 5 month old golden in terms of the same future issues, in your opinion?


Yes, that's exactly what it means. Feeding the same food and never changing leads to a much higher chance of developing sensitivities. Dogs usually develop sensitivities being in the same thing consistently and for long periods of time. True allergies are an anaphylactic reaction.

Switching every 8 to 12 months is ideal


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Ask your veterinarian or better yet, a board certified veterinary nutrionist, which is a DVM with a PhD in small animal nutrition. There is no biological evidence to show that switching foods can avoid sensitivities, and some veterinarians I've consulted with feel it's not a good idea because if at some point your dog does develop sensitivities you will have an impossible task feeding a novel protein (one to which the dog has never been exposed). 
Opinions conflict on this, but it would be better to trust a medical professional.
Sites like Dogfood advisor etc. aren't considered reliable sources of medical information.
Here are a couple from www.petdiets.com, they are certified veterinary nutrionists. Search the FAQs for "rotation".

i'm wondering what your position is on switching dog food routinely? do you believe that "if it's not broken, don't fix it" or do you believe that dogs should have different foods on a rotational basis?
​Those who rotate the protein source to "avoid" food allergy do not understand how the immune system works. If one is rotating the diet because one may have something the other one does not .... maybe but if both diets are complete and balanced by definition than it is more like mixing two different shades of red paint - the paint is still red and the diet is still complete and balanced. If you are mixing two products of which neither are complete and balance the chances that the two will gete a complete and balance intake are quite remote. So if it's not broken, don't change it.​

I've seen conflicting opinions about the benefits (or drawbacks) or rotation feeding--by which I mean feeding a variety of high-quality pre-formulated pet food brands, with or without the addition of whole foods and/or pre-formulated raw diets, as opposed to feeding just one brand of food for a pet's entire life. My personal experience doing so has been overwhelmingly positive, having animals who have consistently been healthy, disease free, and long-lived. However, I would be interested in getting some more concrete information about veterinary nutritionists' stance on the issue. Thanks in advance for your time!
Rotational feeding of various protein source will not circumvent an allergic food reaction if the pet is going to have one. In fact it only reduces your options later when trying to feed a novel protein source.
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Charlie_Boy said:


> Should this be interpreted to mean that food should be regularly changed to avoid sensitivities? Or rather that if a sensitivity to certain ingredients occurs, then switch to a food that has a different protein and/or grain?
> 
> Our older dog (not a golden) has skin problems and possible environmental allergies, and he has been fed bites of a variety of people-food meats his entire life. Should this be avoided in my 5 month old golden in terms of the same future issues, in your opinion?
> [/QUOTE


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