# Experience medication for behavioral issues



## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

Have you corrected this behavior?


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

Where do you live? (I don't recognize the flag under your name - wish you could hover over it and it would say what country it represents). It sounds a bit extreme. Like, are there sticks truly everywhere? I would start by keeping her on leash all the time - like a 4-foot leash and train her to walk nicely with you, keeping her attention on you (this is easily done with training treats). It will take a LOT of training - not just a few days. You need to undo the habit and teach her the right behaviour.

I would not medicate until every single other option was explored - and that would include a lot of training, limiting her opportunity to get sticks, and as an almost last resort, a muzzle, if you really can't keep her from eating them. 

What do you feed her? Sometimes a weird eating habit can be because they are missing nutrients.


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## LZL (Feb 2, 2020)

ArkansasGold said:


> Have you corrected this behavior?





ArkansasGold said:


> Have you corrected this behavior?


Yes. I already wrote in my OP we’ve done a lot of training with help of professionals. I am not interested in training advice. I am interested in experiences from other people with medication and complex dog behavior that couldn’t be solved by training. Some behavior originates from an imbalance in neurotransmitters, like OCD or impulsive disorders, and that’s why training alone won’t work. If people have stories about their “hopeless” dogs I’d like to hear about that too! When someone gives me training advice it just makes me feel annoyed and sad, because they don’t understand, and come up with stuff like “did u try to say no” or “just teach drop it” like sir do you understand what compulsive behavior means…..


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## LZL (Feb 2, 2020)

Sweet Girl said:


> Where do you live? (I don't recognize the flag under your name - wish you could hover over it and it would say what country it represents). It sounds a bit extreme. Like, are there sticks truly everywhere? I would start by keeping her on leash all the time - like a 4-foot leash and train her to walk nicely with you, keeping her attention on you (this is easily done with training treats). It will take a LOT of training - not just a few days. You need to undo the habit and teach her the right behaviour.
> 
> I would not medicate until every single other option was explored - and that would include a lot of training, limiting her opportunity to get sticks, and as an almost last resort, a muzzle, if you really can't keep her from eating them.
> 
> What do you feed her? Sometimes a weird eating habit can be because they are missing nutrients.


I am past that. Do you have experience with medicating dogs?


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## aesthetic (Apr 23, 2015)

how old is she?


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## aesthetic (Apr 23, 2015)

sorry i just checked your other post and see that she’s 2. A couple of my friends have dogs (border collies) on medication for behavioral reasons, but those dogs have far more severe symptoms than what you’re describing.

Just so I’m clear, the only issue she’s having is that she chews sticks? She has no other symptoms of OCD? like licking, spinning, tail chasing, sucking on objects, consistent excessive barking? If her only symptom is that she likes to chew sticks and she’s 100% neurologically appropriate otherwise, I’m doubtful that she has OCD to begin with and so I doubt medication will be helpful. Even if you were to use medication, behavioral modification is a long and tedious process (if the issue is truly behavioral).

When you say you’ve “done a lot of training with professionals”, can you describe what you’ve done and how long you tried it for?


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

I believe the flag is of the Netherlands.

I would just keep my dog away from sticks as best as possible. Always being on lead when he's in the vicinity of sticks will help greatly. If you want to have him off lead, get him accustomed to a basket muzzle. Make sure your yard is free of sticks.

Is he getting enough exercise and mental stimulation?

PICA

I have not been to an animal behaviorist. It may be medication will not be the behaviorist's suggestion. If it's the only symptom (not downplaying it), I would hesitate to go the medication route.


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## LZL (Feb 2, 2020)

I know you guys are trying to be helpful, but it feels like a stump in my stomach.. I explicitly ask for experience with medication, and not training advice. Everything you will come up with, I already tried. Probably a long while ago. I know my dog, and I know what we’ve tried. I didn’t feel the need to explain the problem in detail, because the story doesn’t really matter for my question. I know people will tell me from their screen “it’s not that bad” and “every dog chews sticks” and I know people try to compare their easy dog to a problem dog, but in reality it’s not comparable. So I will try to explain in detail what the problem is so no further comments about it will be made, in an already hard situation for me: 

when I say my dog eats sticks, I mean literally EATS sticks. It’s dangerous and it makes her sick. If I would just let her out of sight for a minute, she would’ve eaten so much wood that she would probably need surgery (already happened). I want to really “!!!!!!!” how much toll it takes on me to watch my dog 100% of the time for two years straight, without a break. It’s stressful, heartbreaking and frustrating. I don’t want to see her suffer. It’s not just the problem of constantly having to watch her, it’s also that I constantly have to correct her. Probably every 10 seconds she tries to eat wood and I’ll have to distract her, correct her, or have to take it physically out of her mouth. It takes a toll on or relationship. It’s not fun to constantly have to correct your dog for their own safety. It stresses me out to be on constant alert whenever we leave the house, and it stresses her out that she is limited and corrected for something she wants to do the most. Sticks are always on her mind. That means we can’t do relaxed walks, we can’t do sports, I can’t let her swim, I can’t let her chase a ball. We can’t do **** because she will focus on finding sticks to eat. I’ll tell you what it does to have a dog who you need to constantly correct and can’t do fun things with. She is frustrated and bored. I am the fun killer. She won’t have a fulfilling life because of this obsession. I try to give an example so you can understand. Most dogs like sausages. What if there were saugages from the point you leave your door, on your whole walk, on the sports and training facility you go to, by the water, in the fields, in the dog park, on every trail you go. And what if you had a dog who would eat the sausages, and had an obsession with it, that you couldn’t redirect. And what if I told you the sausages were filled with spikes that would kill your dog. Imagine everything you can’t do anymore and how bad your dog’s life would become. On every corner there is something that can kill your dog if you let your guard down for a second. And people will tell you that it’s not a problem and every dog likes saugages, or you should just watch a youtube video on how to train dogs. While in reality you spend 10000 hours on this problem. I watched every youtube video about it. I contacted three different behavior therapists who couldn’t help me because the problem was too bad. I taught her leave it, drop it, I tried to let her carry stuff but she drops the toy once she sees wood. I muzzled her but with muzzle she changes into a different dog, she won’t play and run anymore because that thing is bouncing on her nose. I let her wear the muzzle for 6 months straight, to fade out the problem. But the first second I took the muzzle of, she went ahead to eat wood. I used bitter spray, rewards, toys, correction, management, impulse control training, obedience, I changed her food, we cured her underlying medical issue, muzzle muzzle muzzle, leash leash leash, relaxation protocol, we washed her out as a service dog, I bought plenty of other things to safely chew for her, we solved all her little fears to make her life 100% stress free, and it just doesn’t work. So when people come up with their training advices, it just makes me feel bad and misunderstood. People come up with things you learn in puppy class. Or when they say it isn’t bad while in reality it has a immense effect on both our quality of life. A compulsion is something more than just bad behavior. I actually believe this isn’t bad behavior, she just can’t help herself. She is an obedient dog, she wants to work with me, she wants to please me and be good. But she can’t help herself, and I can’t help her. That we are now getting referred for medication gave me hope and I want to read succes story’s from others. Or maybe people who can understand what we’re going through. I really feel that people with average dogs can’t really comprehend how big of a problem it is when your dog tries to kill herself compulsively.


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## LZL (Feb 2, 2020)

aesthetic said:


> sorry i just checked your other post and see that she’s 2. A couple of my friends have dogs (border collies) on medication for behavioral reasons, but those dogs have far more severe symptoms than what you’re describing.
> 
> Just so I’m clear, the only issue she’s having is that she chews sticks? She has no other symptoms of OCD? like licking, spinning, tail chasing, sucking on objects, consistent excessive barking? If her only symptom is that she likes to chew sticks and she’s 100% neurologically appropriate otherwise, I’m doubtful that she has OCD to begin with and so I doubt medication will be helpful. Even if you were to use medication, behavioral modification is a long and tedious process (if the issue is truly behavioral).
> 
> When you say you’ve “done a lot of training with professionals”, can you describe what you’ve done and how long you tried it for?


We were doing professional training since she was 8 weeks old because she was meant to become a service dog. We’ve tried multiple things and never stopped trying, my dog is 2 now. We started with positive reward training, desensitization, and when that didn’t help we went to verbal firm corrections. When that didn’t work we used the muzzle. We had an “holistic” approach by not only focus on the behavior, but on her whole life. We made her life stress free and find the appropriate food because she had undiagnosed bowel problems before. She is properly exercised since she was a pup. She gets a lot of attention and barely has to be home alone. She has no further issues.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

I hope someone chimes in with what you are looking for, but I think it’s unlikely. We ARE trying to help you, but we can’t see your dog or you. We can’t watch how you interact. We can’t watch her reaction when she is faced with this “compulsion”. So before you start getting too frustrated with us, keep in mind that what you are describing sounds like a trainable issue. With the _right kind _of training. If you have been redirecting, verbally correcting, and muzzling then you’ve just been attempting bandaids. None of these things have adequately communicated to her that stick eating is unacceptable.

And FWIW medication is still just a bandaid.

This is a very specific issue and if it is not accompanied by any other OCD symptoms, my instinct is that medicating her is not going to work. I can tell from your longer explanation that this is hurting you and damaging your relationship with this dog. I’m sorry for that. Really.

I have a dog with a “compulsion” to pull on his leash so hard that he chokes every time he sees another person. He pulled me to the ground multiple times. And I’m not a small person. It took literally years of retraining to get him to just be manageable. He still does it sometimes. It sucked. We tried many different things, but only a hard physical correction worked. It was the only thing to break through the haze that seemed to turn on in his brain when he saw another person. And it was completely our fault. We let him greet anyone and everyone when he was a baby. And that turned into a nightmare very quickly. He had no control whatsoever. 

I know this isn’t what you want to hear, but in none of your posts do you mention a true physical correction. Stick eating is a self-reinforcing behavior. Every time she gets to do it, she’s going to want to do it more.

I think you have 3 choices:
1. Give her a good, hard physical correction every time she does it. It has to be hard enough to get through to her brain that stick eating is NOT OK. And will NEVER be ok. 
2. Attempt medication. 
3. Rehome her and start over.

I know you love her and the last one will suck, but it may be what’s best for you both.


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## LZL (Feb 2, 2020)

She can’t be rehomed. I am not letting her go through the trial and error of another handler that starts with zero knowledge on the topic. I can imagine someone new would try out, again, all the stuff that didn’t work. She is best off with me. Although it’s frustrating, I know I can give her a better life than most people. Rehoming her won’t do anything good.

By your own logic, hurting her would be a bandaid too. Funny how people think that rewarding a dog doesn’t teach them but punishing them will. It’s two sides of the same coin: both are based on learning theory. What you describe is animal abuse and will only add problems. I feel like I’ve not been detailed enough in my post although I tried it. Her compulsion is a soothing behavior and stress will make it worse. Punishment that add stress will make it worse. And pulling the leash is not a compulsion, but actual bad training. I just feel more misunderstood because you don’t know what a compulsion is but still try to compare it and give advice that makes compulsions worse…. I know you are trying to help but it’s harmful because you aren’t educated about it. I am not asking for training advice, because I am already educated about that and know my dog. I can’t and don’t want to describe all the ins and outs of the last two years, and I don’t expect someone giving appropriate advice about it. I just want to know more about medication. I am sorry I come across as rude but I just can’t deal with puppy class unsolicited training advice anymore. Don’t you guys know that feeling where you just want to do your thing and strangers suddenly pop up thinking they have GREAAAAT advice for you, feeling all smart, but it’s just dumb and not relevant to your dog at all? That’s what it’s like


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## LZL (Feb 2, 2020)

Sorry I don’t want to be rude, you’re all trying to help, I just want to write down how I really feel about everything


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

LZL said:


> Sorry I don’t want to be rude, you’re all trying to help, I just want to write down how I really feel about everything


You are being extremely rude.


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## LZL (Feb 2, 2020)

ArkansasGold said:


> You are being extremely rude.


And you have crappy abusive advice so we’re even


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## aesthetic (Apr 23, 2015)

I do not have an easy dog. He has (or had) a multitude of behavioral/temperamental issues and numerous health issues. He is not, and has never been, an easy dog. I call him the best worst dog ever, but it took literal years of consistent, repetitive, very frustrating training. It’s bold to assume that commenters are approaching your thread from the position of having an “easy dog”. 

I don’t feel that you’re being at all receptive to people who are trying to help with the limited information being given, so I’m going to bow out. I wish you the best of luck with your girl. I hope you can find a veterinary professional to help you!


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

LZL said:


> Since the last couple months, I feel like this is not my fault, not my dogs fault, we are both trying our hardest, but training is just not doing it.


Well it is your fault. You say you have tried everything and then make uninformed statements about the things you refuse to do because you somehow know it wouldn't work. 
I could cure your dogs obsession with sticks in a week or two at most. I won't bother telling you how since you don't want to know.

Since you insist on medication as the answer, how about spiking the water dish with cheap vodka?


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

You said:



LZL said:


> Sorry I don’t want to be rude, you’re all trying to help, I just want to write down how I really feel about everything


You also said:



LZL said:


> "Don’t you guys know that feeling where you just want to do your thing and strangers suddenly pop up thinking they have GREAAAAT advice for you, feeling all smart, but it’s just dumb and not relevant to your dog at all? That’s what it’s like"


One of these things is not like the other. (Sesame Street reference) 


If she has no other issues, as you have stated, and unless you live in a land of sticks -- people are offering you good advice as to how to deal with the issue.

As far as the compulsion being a soothing behavior, there are a lot of things that are soothing or rewarding to a dog, but it doesn't mean they get to do all of them. Ideally, they are taught what is okay to do and what is not okay to do them. Chewing sticks may "soothe" her, but a huge emergency bill and possibly something more dire occurring would be worse than correcting your dog so he learns to abandon the behavior.

Is your dog an outside dog? I'm trying to understand how this one and only issue would take your undivided attention and monitoring 100% of the day.


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## goldy1 (Aug 5, 2012)

@LZL - due to your frustration, I certainly don't want to add to it.
I have no experience with medication or a behaviorist so please feel free to stop reading now.

But I would like to offer one other "possible" solution even if it is just interim:
Prevention.
I used the Outfox Field Guard for my one pups very successfully. Please be open-minded to this possibility.
Take a look at this link to the product and testimonials.








Testimonials


"I wanted to let you know how delighted I am with your product. I have a German short haired pointer who is very shy and sensitive. After having foxtails removed from his ears for 5 days in a row, I knew I needed to do something. I was very concerned that the Field Guard would be something he...




outfoxfordogs.com




Just a thought. Good luck.


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## LZL (Feb 2, 2020)

It’s not that I am not receptive for solutions. But everything you come up with I already tried. Nobody cares here about my question and I seem to be on trial for stuff just because people can’t grasp our situation. Yes also the fox guard I tried. It’s nothing new to me and I am just being misunderstood. There was one dude who said I should physically hurt my dog to the extent she would stop eating sticks. Hurting my dog is not relevant to our training, and on top of that he shouldn’t just throw around advice like that without knowing our situation and without telling all the other consequences of dog abuse. I know ‘Merica is the land of the freely abuse your dog. But if I pull that crap my dog will be taken away from me and I go to jail. Other option was rehoming and that’s also not relevant. Then he proceeded to compare his dog pulling on a leash with a compulsion. So in case people were wondering why I can’t deal with that, he was harmful. I am not saying people have easy dogs at whole, I am saying people have easy dogs on this specific matter. I can see that from the advice I am getting, it’s non relevant, I’ve already tried it, and I am not for trial.

If there are people who want to talk about the life with a problem dog that has an impact on the quality of living, I really want to hear about that. If people have experience with medication, I want to hear about that too. If people have experience with how to world acts around you because of the issues of your dog, I want to hear. Feel free to PM me.


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## Tagrenine (Aug 20, 2019)

This is not a situation we can provide any help with. You have legal restrictions to how most of us would correct it. I have a dog on anxiety meds and it is not easy to get a prescription for nor is it a cure. The initial behaviorist said she only writes scripts for dogs that have no other option and when all avenues have been tried. My dogs issue was seriously affecting her QOL. Stick eating is not.

This same dog is also had a period where she was obsessed with shadows and light reflections and would not even stop to rest because she could only focus on the shadows.

I understand what you’re dealing with but this is going to be a life long issue and will likely require a trial of different drugs and behaviorists but it may never go away.

We can’t give you any answers because we don’t have answers for OCD. A lot of people have success with tools here that are illegal where you live and that’s where our help ends. You’ve worked with professionals and if they can’t help you, we can’t either.


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## Mosaic (Oct 22, 2020)

Hi there. People have strong opinions on medication. I will offer mine as someone with a dog on meds.

I have really struggled to train my dog. I think he was fine initially but he came to me in the middle of lockdown and his socialisation was rubbish as it was illegal to take him almost anywhere. he’s just turned a year. We saw a behaviourist who suggested his myriad issues could be explained by anxiety.

He has been on Prozac for about a month and there has been a huge improvement. to the observer he still looks like a dog with behavioural issues but the difference is now less aroused so he can actually hear me and respond to me, which means the training is starting to work. In a month he’s gone from eg being able to do loose lead walking only within 5 metres of my house, to doing it 90% of the time; he can now actually play the “look at that game” about 95% of the time (vs 1%) so disengagement is starting to improve. 

re chemical imbalance. I’m a clinical psychologist. There isn’t any evidence for this as an explanation for human distress. we don’t treat mental diseases with drugs, we use drugs to create an overall effect on the brain such as down regulating arousal. That doesn’t mean drugs can’t be helpful, for humans or dogs. From my perspective the drug is a time limited training aid that on balance, was in his best interests. It sounds like you’ve exhausted other options. I think it’s completely ok for you to go and speak to this expert about your dog and consider medication. My dog seems so much less stressed now.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

LZL said:


> I am just being misunderstood.


And you try so very hard, it's just not fair. 
What did you expect from a bunch of 'merican dog beaters?


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

A reminder, please keep the Forum Rules in mind when commenting and be respectful.


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

It certainly isn't respectful to go on about Americans abusing their dogs and calling it "Merica." ("I know ‘Merica is the land of the freely abuse your dog.")

I also don't think anyone said medicating a dog is wrong in particular situations. We were answering questions and offering solutions for the problem she presented. I saw the problem as her being rude every time someone responded and saying it isn't relevant. I also noticed she never responded to any of my avoiding sticks comments.

I don't have personal experience with an obsessive stick eating dog. I can think about it and know what I would try. First on the list would be avoid sticks.


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

Mosaic said:


> Hi there. People have strong opinions on medication. I will offer mine as someone with a dog on meds.
> 
> I have really struggled to train my dog. I think he was fine initially but he came to me in the middle of lockdown and his socialisation was rubbish as it was illegal to take him almost anywhere. he’s just turned a year. We saw a behaviourist who suggested his myriad issues could be explained by anxiety.
> 
> ...


I thought the pandemic was hard here with a new puppy. From what I saw on the news, it had to be much more difficult there. I got mine about a month before puppy kindergarten was scheduled, but the pandemic shut everything down. I empathize with you. FWIW, my dog is two and walks great loose leash in the neighborhood now and has learned so much via training. Besides the pandemic, you're also dealing with adolescence. Keep training and get your dog out and about with things loosened up. It will get much better.


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## chelseah (Dec 8, 2020)

Why would you accuse people of abusing their dogs? It does not make sense to me that you would call a correction or training method abusive if it has translated into better quality of life for the dog.


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## Mosaic (Oct 22, 2020)

diane0905 said:


> I thought the pandemic was hard here with a new puppy. From what I saw on the news, it had to be much more difficult there. I got mine about a month before puppy kindergarten was scheduled, but the pandemic shut everything down. I empathize with you. FWIW, my dog is two and walks great loose leash in the neighborhood now and has learned so much via training. Besides the pandemic, you're also dealing with adolescence. Keep training and get your dog out and about with things loosened up. It will get much better.


Thanks! in retrospect I’d have bought a car (I’m in London - never needed one before) and just broken the law and taken him out often. first time dog owner so I didn’t realise how much harm it was doing. But that’s hindsight! He is doing so much better already. I’m just telling myself it’s one more year of intense training and we will come though with a calm, happy dog. Glad you’ve got there with your dog.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

goldy1 said:


> @LZL - due to your frustration, I certainly don't want to add to it.
> I have no experience with medication or a behaviorist so please feel free to stop reading now.
> 
> But I would like to offer one other "possible" solution even if it is just interim:
> ...


I love that idea for an inappropriate ingestion dog.
And I am curious- OP said you've tried this product. What'd that do for your dog? Dog couldn't eat sticks with this net bag over head- it would be useful for the future people who read this thread (who may have a similar problem) to know how that shook out- since to this long time multiple dog owner it seems like (if I were legally not allowed to train, that is) a good solution.


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

Mosaic said:


> Thanks! in retrospect I’d have bought a car (I’m in London - never needed one before) and just broken the law and taken him out often. first time dog owner so I didn’t realise how much harm it was doing. But that’s hindsight! He is doing so much better already. I’m just telling myself it’s one more year of intense training and we will come though with a calm, happy dog. Glad you’ve got there with your dog.


Thanks! We aren’t totally there. Definitely by three, you’ll have the best dog in the world. You’ll see leaps and bounds difference by two if you keep doing the regular training. Goldens are such fun and wonderful dogs.

I’ve been to London and loved it.


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## LZL (Feb 2, 2020)

Prism Goldens said:


> I love that idea for an inappropriate ingestion dog.
> And I am curious- OP said you've tried this product. What'd that do for your dog? Dog couldn't eat sticks with this net bag over head- it would be useful for the future people who read this thread (who may have a similar problem) to know how that shook out- since to this long time multiple dog owner it seems like (if I were legally not allowed to train, that is) a good solution.


She would still focus on the sticks and it occupied her mentally. She would get frustrated because she couldn’t go near the stick and start panting and digging etc. So she went a bit neurotic and did that crazy thing on leash where she would zig zag, jumping and bump to the end like a lunatic. I kept trying of course but after a while she found out how to still get to the sticks with the thing on. The biggest issue with tools like fox guard and muzzle is that the occupation gets way worse. It would maybe work for dogs who aren’t compulsive. Just to be clear, she was accustomed to the tools properly, the stress reaction was because of the sticks.


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## LZL (Feb 2, 2020)

chelseah said:


> Why would you accuse people of abusing their dogs? It does not make sense to me that you would call a correction or training method abusive if it has translated into better quality of life for the dog.


Because by definition hitting your dog is dog abuse. That you gain something from it doesn’t make it less abusive. On top of that it’s really inappropriate to give advice to hit your dog without fully educating someone what the effects of that will be. That is dangerous. I notice it’s normalized to hurt your dog on this forum, and maybe even on the whole American continent. Idk. Moderators are even spreading it. The culture difference is really wild here. If you people lived in my country you would all be in jail. For good sake because hitting a dog is just as bad as hitting for example a kid. Where I’m from, dog training is science based, so we don’t hit our dogs. One because it’s ethically wrong. And two it can have really bad effects that you don’t want. For example, if you hit a dog that has a compulsive disorder it may get way worse. That’s because added stress makes most beavioral issues worse. If you people really think it’s okay to physically pain your dog, I can’t grasp why not properly educate about it?


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## LZL (Feb 2, 2020)

Mosaic said:


> Hi there. People have strong opinions on medication. I will offer mine as someone with a dog on meds.
> 
> I have really struggled to train my dog. I think he was fine initially but he came to me in the middle of lockdown and his socialisation was rubbish as it was illegal to take him almost anywhere. he’s just turned a year. We saw a behaviourist who suggested his myriad issues could be explained by anxiety.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your response!! Do you think your dog has to be on meds for a long time? I plan to use meds for my dog temporarily. I think it can have side effects. I hope doing it temporarily will do the trick.

And about the chemical imbalance: on the website of the behavioral vet is explained that there can be a problem in the neurotransmitters, and medication can have an effect on that. So I think “chemical imbalance” is a good word for that? Idk.

My dog was also born just before corona. I just had her and a month later the lockdowns started. I totally feel you with the rubbish socialization. I had to put much more effort in this dog than in previous ones. She also was very sick at 8 weeks old to around 6 months old. She picked up the habit of stick eating at 8 weeks old. She had undiagnosed pain and she just moved to me from the breeder. It was just too much for her. She was overall a wild puppy (trying to bite all me furniture) and now she just bite the sticks. I didn’t think much of it because every dog chews a stick here and there. She also didn’t eat it yet, that came later. So the stick eating seem to be heavily inforced in the first couple weeks: her illness, the move to me, she being hyper and having to chew something, and in the meantime I was heavily concentrating on making her better and finding what was causing her illness. I believe the stick eating is ingraned in her brain. She turned out to have severe allergies. Sometimes when her allergy flames up again the stick eating will go totally out of hand. There is a relation between feeling ill and the eating. A normal behaviorist can’t help me because the dog is ill. The vet can’t help me because it’s behavior. I have the behavior vet can help me because she understands the connection between illness and behavior, and that it’s much more than regular “bad behavior”. I also hope she can give me training advice and achievable goals with her experience with sick dogs. It’s different than regular dogs and there are less options. The cause of stick eating is different too.


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## Mosaic (Oct 22, 2020)

LZL said:


> Thanks for your response!! Do you think your dog has to be on meds for a long time? I plan to use meds for my dog temporarily. I think it can have side effects. I hope doing it temporarily will do the trick.


He seems to have had minimal side effects - reduced appetite for a few days. We have been lucky though, I think sometimes you have to play around with different drugs and doses. 

My plan is to do intensive training now to change his behaviour so that can disengage from triggers easily. The triggers cause him to be anxious. Once the triggers can be processed in a calm way, I hope there is no further need for meds. My understanding of compulsions is more limited but it may be the case that with the appropriate support, you could also train your dog to disengage from the trigger of sticks.




> And about the chemical imbalance: on the website of the behavioral vet is explained that there can be a problem in the neurotransmitters, and medication can have an effect on that. So I think “chemical imbalance” is a good word for that? Idk.


yes - it sounds like they are pushing the chemical imbalance story - I wouldn’t suggest you argue with them. That’s fine, it’s a very powerful narrative supported by the pharmaceutical industry and many psychiatrists. Further reading here so you can see my point is supported by evidence not anti vaxxers etc! Anyway it’s not massively relevant to you. I think the important thing to take away is that these drugs won’t cure a problem in your dogs brain, but they may provide a tool for you reduce her arousal/anxiety and potentially change her behaviour through training. this also means she may only need drugs temporarily. 



> My dog was also born just before corona. I just had her and a month later the lockdowns started. I totally feel you with the rubbish socialization. I had to put much more effort in this dog than in previous ones. She also was very sick at 8 weeks old to around 6 months old. She picked up the habit of stick eating at 8 weeks old. She had undiagnosed pain and she just moved to me from the breeder. It was just too much for her. She was overall a wild puppy (trying to bite all me furniture) and now she just bite the sticks. I didn’t think much of it because every dog chews a stick here and there. She also didn’t eat it yet, that came later. So the stick eating seem to be heavily inforced in the first couple weeks: her illness, the move to me, she being hyper and having to chew something, and in the meantime I was heavily concentrating on making her better and finding what was causing her illness. I believe the stick eating is ingraned in her brain. She turned out to have severe allergies. Sometimes when her allergy flames up again the stick eating will go totally out of hand. There is a relation between feeling ill and the eating. A normal behaviorist can’t help me because the dog is ill. The vet can’t help me because it’s behavior. I have the behavior vet can help me because she understands the connection between illness and behavior, and that it’s much more than regular “bad behavior”. I also hope she can give me training advice and achievable goals with her experience with sick dogs. It’s different than regular dogs and there are less options. The cause of stick eating is different too.


gosh what a journey you’ve been on, that all sounds so stressful. i think a vet behaviourist sounds ideal because her health is such a part of the picture. she must feel so stressed when she is unwell with her allergies. I hope they can give you the right advice.


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

LZL said:


> Because by definition hitting your dog is dog abuse. That you gain something from it doesn’t make it less abusive. On top of that it’s really inappropriate to give advice to hit your dog without fully educating someone what the effects of that will be. That is dangerous. I notice it’s normalized to hurt your dog on this forum, and maybe even on the whole American continent. Idk. Moderators are even spreading it. The culture difference is really wild here. If you people lived in my country you would all be in jail. For good sake because hitting a dog is just as bad as hitting for example a kid. Where I’m from, dog training is science based, so we don’t hit our dogs. One because it’s ethically wrong. And two it can have really bad effects that you don’t want. For example, if you hit a dog that has a compulsive disorder it may get way worse. That’s because added stress makes most beavioral issues worse. If you people really think it’s okay to physically pain your dog, I can’t grasp why not properly educate about it?


Hitting a dog? I’ve never hit my dog, but sometimes I get bruises on my shin from playing with him. 

If you think it is normalized to hit a dog on this forum, why are you asking for advice here?


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## chelseah (Dec 8, 2020)

LZL said:


> That is dangerous. I notice it’s normalized to hurt your dog on this forum, and maybe even on the whole American continent. Idk. Moderators are even spreading it. The culture difference is really wild here. If you people lived in my country you would all be in jail. For good sake because hitting a dog is just as bad as hitting for example a kid.


Wow. If I thought a forum promoted abuse, I’d be sure not to give them any traffic.


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## LZL (Feb 2, 2020)

chelseah said:


> Wow. If I thought a forum promoted abuse, I’d be sure not to give them any traffic.


Why are you being snarky instead of alarmed by the abusive advice I’m getting? And the whole moderator board that is also into hitting dogs?


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## LZL (Feb 2, 2020)

Mosaic said:


> He seems to have had minimal side effects - reduced appetite for a few days. We have been lucky though, I think sometimes you have to play around with different drugs and doses.
> 
> My plan is to do intensive training now to change his behaviour so that can disengage from triggers easily. The triggers cause him to be anxious. Once the triggers can be processed in a calm way, I hope there is no further need for meds. My understanding of compulsions is more limited but it may be the case that with the appropriate support, you could also train your dog to disengage from the trigger of sticks.
> 
> ...


I think I am mostly scared that my dog will feel drugged down and tired, and I won’t notice it. I had medication myself in the past and it made me feel loopy. But if it’s just a temporary thing I will 100% do it if it can help my dog and better her quality of life in the long run. I hope you’ll find a way with your dog and it turns out okay!!

I tried opening your link, it seems really interesting, but I can only read the abstract. I’m gonna try to open it later with my university account, maybe I can read it. I never thought medication will cure my dog though, but maybe it provides an opening so training will be effective. I’m not gonna have a discussion about this sort of thing with the vet though haha. Professionals don’t really like it when you’re trying to be smart. But it sure is interesting to read about a different perspective.

And thanks for your supportive words!


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## chelseah (Dec 8, 2020)

LZL said:


> Why are you being snarky instead of alarmed by the abusive advice I’m getting? And the whole moderator board that is also into hitting dogs?


As I stated, if I thought the moderators were “into hitting dogs”, I wouldn’t visit this forum. If my dog had an issue that was negatively impacting her life, I would also be open to hearing that I hadn’t tried _everything_. I don’t think a physical correction equals abuse.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

LZL said:


> Why are you being snarky instead of alarmed by the abusive advice I’m getting? And the whole moderator board that is also into hitting dogs?


I'm a Mod, I haven't even commented in this thread until now,.
To say the "Whole Moderator Board that is also into hitting dogs" is completely unfair and untrue.
I have not seen any Mod say they condone let alone endorsed or recommended hitting a dog.

In our Culture, it is Not common to hit animals or children. 
I have never hit my dogs, any animal for that matter, and I did not hit my son while he was growing up. 


There are other more productive ways to correct an unwanted behavior via training and using a "correction" that does not involve hitting the dog.

My trainer uses a combination of training and exercise, not only for the dog but the owner is also instructed how to work and interact with their dog.

As to using medications, I do know some Vets that prescribe Prozac but rarely and for only extreme cases. Meds have never been prescribed for any of my dogs, more exercise and more training only. Training and exercise that is done daily for the entire life of the dog.


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

LZL said:


> And I understand in your culture it’s normal to hit a dog (and not be seen as abusive) but even if people think it’s normal, why not actually educate me what hitting a dog will have for further consequences?


This is not true. 



> And to answer your question, I am asking for advice here because the practice of giving medication for behavior isn’t very practiced in my country. There are not enough specialists so it’s not something people go to. I can’t ask for advice about this in my own country, because experience is lacking. On top of that, there isn’t a dog forum for golden retrievers available in my country, so that’s why I come by here. Sometimes it’s better to ask questions to people with experience with the breed. In my comments I clearly stated I didn’t want training advice, I just wanted to hear about experience with medication.


You can ask, but you can't control how other people choose to and think is the best way respond to you.

I've been on this forum a long while (I started posting here when I got my first Golden. He was born in 2010.) and have never seen someone recommend hitting a dog.

If you feel a need to medicate your dog based on your experience and professional advice, stick to the recommendation of the doctor prescribing the medication.


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## LZL (Feb 2, 2020)

Sorry sometimes the quoting is wrong


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## GoldenDude (Nov 5, 2016)

LZL said:


> Why are you being snarky instead of alarmed by the abusive advice I’m getting? And the whole moderator board that is also into hitting dogs?


I am a mod. I have no experience with your situation and have therefore not commented. You might be getting snarky advice because of the attitude and arrogance you seem to be displaying. For the record, I have never endorsed hitting a dog and don’t hit my dogs. I understand that you’re frustrated but please refrain from disparaging me (and the other mods) with false accusations. I hope you find a solution to the problem you’re experiencing.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

I feel as though it's time to step in and set some things straight.
1. I am not a man. I am a Woman. That's me in my signature photo, not a professional handler.
2. Nowhere did I ever say to hit, hurt, or abuse an animal.
3. When I said "hard physical correction" I did not and will NEVER mean hitting a dog. I do not and will not hit my dogs.
4. What physical correction actually does mean is a collar correction or grabbing the dog by the loose skin on the back of the neck. This does NOT hurt them. It's dog language for "hey! Knock it off!". I feel like I must repeat this, just in case it didn't get through the first time: *A physical correction does not mean hurting your dog. This particular type of physical correction does not hurt a healthy, uninjured animal. *
5. While I do believe in using more than one quadrant of the operant conditioning toolbox, I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT PAIN IS THE ANSWER. 

I was genuinely trying to be helpful, but you made this personal. Some of the people on this forum - including other moderators - know me in person and know that I do not abuse my dogs. What you have been saying about me is categorically untrue.

I love my dogs. They mean the world to me and they are happy, healthy, well-adjusted, confident animals. I am proud of them. The dog in my signature photo is my heart dog. I can't imagine my life without her. 

So please, please stop calling me an abuser (and a man).


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## FurdogDad (Mar 30, 2021)

And please refrain from insulting all other dog owning members of this forum who happen to reside in A-merica with your ridiculously inaccurate generalizations.


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## DblTrblGolden2 (Aug 22, 2018)

I'm outraged by this entire thread. I hunt train, and I'm sure you have an opinion on that. I have absolutely NEVER hit one of my dogs I had to read this thread multiple times to try and see where anyone advised you to hit your dog. I NEVER FOUND IT!!! I'm not sure why you chose to come to a forum and ask for advice when you clearly have no respect for the forum or it's members. I've been staying out of some things on this forum recently because I'm absolutely sick of the attitudes given when people are genuinely trying to help. Just to be really clear with you, I don't care about your feelings, I care about your dog. I personally would exhaust every training method available before resorting to medication. I could pass judgement on you just as you have on others, but we are none here to judge. We are here to help. I only take advice from people I hold in high regard, perhaps you should do the same. Those people don't appear to be on this forum.


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## LZL (Feb 2, 2020)

DblTrblGolden2 said:


> I'm outraged by this entire thread. I hunt train, and I'm sure you have an opinion on that. I have absolutely NEVER hit one of my dogs I had to read this thread multiple times to try and see where anyone advised you to hit your dog. I NEVER FOUND IT!!! I'm not sure why you chose to come to a forum and ask for advice when you clearly have no respect for the forum or it's members. I've been staying out of some things on this forum recently because I'm absolutely sick of the attitudes given when people are genuinely trying to help. Just to be really clear with you, I don't care about your feelings, I care about your dog. I personally would exhaust every training method available before resorting to medication. I could pass judgement on you just as you have on others, but we are none here to judge. We are here to help. I only take advice from people I hold in high regard, perhaps you should do the same. Those people don't appear to be on this forum.


I can’t react substensivly because of forum rules, but the message that is talked about is deleted by the writer.


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## DblTrblGolden2 (Aug 22, 2018)

LZL said:


> I can’t react substensivly because of forum rules, but the message that is talked about is deleted by the writer.


I saw the edited message, and I saw it before it was edited. I've been following the thread, just avoiding it like I suspect many others were. Nobody advised you to HIT your dog. You took correction to a whole new level. You can chalk it up to a misunderstanding, but then you should apologize instead of continuing to bash someone, and an entire culture, for trying to help. If I say NO to my dog it is a correction. A physical correction can be a bump of a leash, a hand on the collar, etc. I'm not going to go into it any further, but you need to take ownership of your actions and apologize. My parenting class for today is over.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Clearly you think 'hard correction' means 'hit' (it does not).
And clearly you came to an internet group to ask about medication use when you live in a country that does not use behavior altering medications often, and hoped to get advice on this without any deep discussion on what you have and have not tried w your dog. HEre's the thing- these medications are not without side effects. Maybe your dog really is compulsive but we'll never know if you know the definition of that, or what you've done to try to alleviate any compulsive behavior because you don't want to go over it, and possibly have someone here catch something that might work without the perceived easy fix of meds.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

"She turned out to have severe allergies. Sometimes when her allergy flames up again the stick eating will go totally out of hand. There is a relation between feeling ill and the eating."

I think we finally found at least one cause of the issue.


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## LZL (Feb 2, 2020)

Misclicked


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## LZL (Feb 2, 2020)

ArkansasGold said:


> "She turned out to have severe allergies. Sometimes when her allergy flames up again the stick eating will go totally out of hand. There is a relation between feeling ill and the eating."
> 
> I think we finally found at least one cause of the issue.


Yes there were multiple causes but her being ill sometimes is probably the nr 1. That’s why I want to behavior vet to take a look. A regular vet or a regular behaviorist don’t know what to do with it.


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## LZL (Feb 2, 2020)

I replied to prismgoldens (sorry quoting is really off on mobile and sometimes it combines multiple messages because I misclicked)

I just want information for myself to decide if medication is a good route. Informing everyone else about the how’s and why’s is not important to me and will only fulfill curiosity. Training advice wasn’t the point of my topic, I just wanted to read experiences about medication. I want to rely on people who’ve seen my dog and professionals, and people excessively talking about training on a forum is kinda background noise and not relevant. I myself know what is done and what had effect or not, it doesn’t matter what others on the forum think about it. This comes across as not receptive or not wanting to train my dog, but that’s not it. I just want to have a specific kind of information right now, and it’s hard to find. I already worked 2 years on this problem and know all about it, it has so many complexities that it wouldn’t fit a forum (so the only purpose would be fulfilling curiosity, and that didn’t even work because with every message I got I noticed my story still wasn’t complete enough, and people where thinking they were coming with something ‘new’. It just takes away my opportunity to get the information I want.) if I have more information about medication from an anekdotal point, it will make it easier for me to decide what to do and what my chances are. For actual training advice and yes/no medication I will follow the vet’s training plan. But others story’s always help me to gain more insight on the topic and makes it easier for me to know what to say and ask when we have our appointment.


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## LZL (Feb 2, 2020)

Native English speakers, when do you use “were” and “ where” in a sentence like “they were/where thinking (..) “ ?


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## ceegee (Mar 26, 2015)

LZL said:


> Native English speakers, when do you use “were” and “ where” in a sentence like “they were/where thinking (..) “ ?


"Were" is a verb, past tense of "are". "Where" is an adverb, used to refer to place. "Where were they thinking of going?" "Where were they living?" etc.
Basically: use "were" instead of "are" to refer to things past. Use "where" to refer to a place or position.

Regarding your dog: What kind of service dog was she intended to be?


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

LZL said:


> Native English speakers, when do you use “were” and “ where” in a sentence like “they were/where thinking (..) “ ?


Examples:

We were trying to be helpful and provide you with our thoughts and recommendations.

Where do you walk your dog? Are locations with lots of sticks your only options?


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

LZL said:


> I replied to prismgoldens (sorry quoting is really off on mobile and sometimes it combines multiple messages because I misclicked)
> 
> I just want information for myself to decide if medication is a good route. Informing everyone else about the how’s and why’s is not important to me and will only fulfill curiosity. Training advice wasn’t the point of my topic, I just wanted to read experiences about medication. I want to rely on people who’ve seen my dog and professionals, and people excessively talking about training on a forum is kinda background noise and not relevant. I myself know what is done and what had effect or not, it doesn’t matter what others on the forum think about it. This comes across as not receptive or not wanting to train my dog, but that’s not it. I just want to have a specific kind of information right now, and it’s hard to find. I already worked 2 years on this problem and know all about it, it has so many complexities that it wouldn’t fit a forum (so the only purpose would be fulfilling curiosity, and that didn’t even work because with every message I got I noticed my story still wasn’t complete enough, and people where thinking they were coming with something ‘new’. It just takes away my opportunity to get the information I want.) if I have more information about medication from an anekdotal point, it will make it easier for me to decide what to do and what my chances are. For actual training advice and yes/no medication I will follow the vet’s training plan. But others story’s always help me to gain more insight on the topic and makes it easier for me to know what to say and ask when we have our appointment.


For me- and I know an awful lot about meds and veterinary medicine- it's not 'curiousity'- it's unwillingness to provide info without being satisfied receiver of info (and all the other people downline who'd read the info which is a whole other thing) is even going down the right road. I don't think anyone I saw a response from was curious, suspect all were looking at it like I was. Meds are not always an easy fix and they always affect other systems. Willing minds do not eliminate all other parts of a puzzle just looking for the corners.. and that's the analogy I'd put to your posts.
I can see you should deal with a veterinarian and hopefully will take that advice. I do hope your dog is not damaged by whatever course you take.
edit: you say you want to decide whether meds are a good route to take, by hearing others' stories. Unless YOU are a pharmacologist with speciality in veterinary its unlikely any stories you hear would be useful to you since it's all just anecdotal. I've probably known 10 Prozac dogs over the years in some way or another, enough that I know whether it was useful to the owner or not or even to me cutting nails/anxiety (because most of those dogs were friends dogs or grooming clients) and I also have known quite a number of dogs I call shoppers- the ones who cannot seem to curb their urge to pick up every little thing they pass, be it acorns quickly swallowed or sticks or bits of moss. Working on impulse control is tiring and often takes a new perspective to get on top of, since owners often do not see the simplest things that would stop that behavior, because they are worried about the inappropriate ingestions and lack of impulse control. I do hope your dog is given the tools to make her life safer- just do not think the drug route is going to fix such a finite specific thing as 'sticks' when her behavior isn't extended to other things like acorns or whatever.


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## aesthetic (Apr 23, 2015)

The forum rules are very clear, and you agreed to them when you registered your account on the forum. Here’s a link to the forum rules for anyone who may need a refresher: GRF Board Rules & Registration Agreement

The forum rules apply to everyone on the forum. Moderators did not choose the rules, we did not write them. Our only responsibility is to enforce them.


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## LZL (Feb 2, 2020)

[


Prism Goldens said:


> For me- and I know an awful lot about meds and veterinary medicine- it's not 'curiousity'- it's unwillingness to provide info without being satisfied receiver of info (and all the other people downline who'd read the info which is a whole other thing) is even going down the right road. I don't think anyone I saw a response from was curious, suspect all were looking at it like I was. Meds are not always an easy fix and they always affect other systems. Willing minds do not eliminate all other parts of a puzzle just looking for the corners.. and that's the analogy I'd put to your posts.
> I can see you should deal with a veterinarian and hopefully will take that advice. I do hope your dog is not damaged by whatever course you take.
> edit: you say you want to decide whether meds are a good route to take, by hearing others' stories. Unless YOU are a pharmacologist with speciality in veterinary its unlikely any stories you hear would be useful to you since it's all just anecdotal. I've probably known 10 Prozac dogs over the years in some way or another, enough that I know whether it was useful to the owner or not or even to me cutting nails/anxiety (because most of those dogs were friends dogs or grooming clients) and I also have known quite a number of dogs I call shoppers- the ones who cannot seem to curb their urge to pick up every little thing they pass, be it acorns quickly swallowed or sticks or bits of moss. Working on impulse control is tiring and often takes a new perspective to get on top of, since owners often do not see the simplest things that would stop that behavior, because they are worried about the inappropriate ingestions and lack of impulse control. I do hope your dog is given the tools to make her life safer- just do not think the drug route is going to fix such a finite specific thing as 'sticks' when her behavior isn't extended to other things like acorns or whatever.


I didn’t mean your intentions were curiosity, I meant that me talking about my dog‘s training would only fulfill curiosity in the end (and serve no other goal). I can see from your perspective you want to help and maybe say something about my dog (or her training), but from my perspective I can’t do anything with training advice because I’d have to wait for my appointment and will do what the prof says who’ve seen my dog. I also have to fill in a form of 100+ questions and have a appointment of 2 hours and that will be a far better fit than forum info. So it’s my choice to not take training advice because no one can see through their screen how my dog is. 

I also hope my dog will not be damaged, and I will only try medication for a limited time (if medication is even advised). I will never damage my dog on purpose and would always do what I think is best, and I inform myself before making choices. I think medication for a limited period while following a specific training plan is a chance for her to become better. And I think that will increase her quality of life. Now we can’t do all the fun things that makes a dog life great. If she feels like crap for a couple months bc of medication, I think it’s still a good trade off, if it makes her better. (To some extent of course, I am not gonna let her be totally miserable). If it doesn’t work, it’s just another thing we’ve tried and can stripe of the list. I don’t understand what you mean by your last sentence, what kind of difference would it make if a behavior is extended to other things or not? I think it doesn’t say anything about the severity of the problem. Yes she eats other stuff, but she does that on ‘normal dog‘ levels. She eats grass, mud, rocks, poop, etc. But I can call her off those. And I am lucky she doesn’t eat poisonous stuff like mushrooms. 

My dog’s impulse control is fine on other domains, for example she waits on my command before eating her kibble, I can call her back from other dogs or running after a cat and other exciting naughty dog stuff. It didn’t come naturally, it was training. That’s why I think it’s weird she still has this one thing (stick eating) that seems impossible. She wants to work with me and be patient, but just not with that…


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## LZL (Feb 2, 2020)

ceegee said:


> "Were" is a verb, past tense of "are". "Where" is an adverb, used to refer to place. "Where were they thinking of going?" "Where were they living?" etc.
> Basically: use "were" instead of "are" to refer to things past. Use "where" to refer to a place or position.
> 
> Regarding your dog: What kind of service dog was she intended to be?


Thanks! And she was intended to be a psychiatric service dog, my problems are psychiatric by nature, but effect my body. So in practice her tasks were more medical related. She smells my blood sugars and does in home tasks like getting me stuff. She didn’t do the typical psychiatric tasks, because emotionally I’m okay, and I don’t even like to involve a dog with emotional responsibilities. She still does tasks for fun, she likes to do them as “tricks”. She helps me do the laundry and get the mail.


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## LZL (Feb 2, 2020)

diane0905 said:


> Examples:
> 
> We were trying to be helpful and provide you with our thoughts and recommendations.
> 
> Where do you walk your dog? Are locations with lots of sticks your only options?


LOL okay I don’t know if you want me to answer them, but just in case: in my area we have this infrastructure where you can only walk your dog in the forests. If I want to meet other dogs, play, swim or do anything fun with her I am stuck to woody areas. When I think about it, trees are everywhere. If I want to avoid sticks I have to walk on the middle of the road (the sides of the road are also trees). I don’t like to walk my dog close to houses with less sticks, because guard dogs follow us around and harass or even attack us. I don’t feel safe. My yard is worth nothing, I could keep the sticks away (and I do) but if you walk 5 steps you reached the end of my yard lol. That’s a Dutch problem. Lack of space. Once a week I drive 1,5 hour to the beach and that’s the place were she can 100% be herself and we both really enjoy it.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

aesthetic said:


> The forum rules are very clear, and you agreed to them when you registered your account on the forum. Here’s a link to the forum rules for anyone who may need a refresher: GRF Board Rules & Registration Agreement
> 
> The forum rules apply to everyone on the forum. Moderators did not choose the rules, we did not write them. Our only responsibility is to enforce them.


I just want to add,

The Forum Rules apply to the Mods on the Moderator Team as well.
We're members who agreed to the Follow the Rules and the Registration Agreement when we registered for an account here on the Forum just like you and every member does. 

We also Volunteer our time..... 

Mods have to follow the Forum Rules and Moderator Procedures established by the Site Owners- Vertical Scope.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

LZL said:


> I can’t react substensivly because of forum rules, but the message that is talked about is deleted by the writer.



Any member, including yourself can elect to edit a post if the System allows to you "Edit" it. 
A post can be removed/deleted, changed or content added. 

I am confused as to why you are still discussing a post that a member elected to remove......


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## LZL (Feb 2, 2020)

CAROLINA MOM said:


> Any member, including yourself can elect to edit a post if the System allows to you "Edit" it.
> A post can be removed/deleted, changed or content added.
> 
> I am confused as to why you are still discussing a post that a member elected to remove......


I want to point out that you are right now not following the forum rules by bringing up a conflict that is no longer going.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

LZL said:


> I want to point out that you are right now not following the forum rules by bringing up a conflict that is no longer going.



I'm not, you are, I quoted your post.


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

LZL said:


> LOL okay I don’t know if you want me to answer them, but just in case: in my area we have this infrastructure where you can only walk your dog in the forests. If I want to meet other dogs, play, swim or do anything fun with her I am stuck to woody areas. When I think about it, trees are everywhere. If I want to avoid sticks I have to walk on the middle of the road (the sides of the road are also trees). I don’t like to walk my dog close to houses with less sticks, because guard dogs follow us around and harass or even attack us. I don’t feel safe. My yard is worth nothing, I could keep the sticks away (and I do) but if you walk 5 steps you reached the end of my yard lol. That’s a Dutch problem. Lack of space. Once a week I drive 1,5 hour to the beach and that’s the place were she can 100% be herself and we both really enjoy it.


I’m glad you have the beach. My dogs have always loved going there. I’m sorry about your situation and hope you are able to remedy it.


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## Tagrenine (Aug 20, 2019)

Behavioural Neuroscience


Social play behaviour is very important for animals.




www.uu.nl





I believe this school is in the Netherlands and actively doing research in behavioral neuroscience for animals. It may be worth contacting them to see if they have an accomplished veterinary behaviorist on staff that can recommend a drug and training regimen?


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

LZL said:


> I had medication myself in the past and it made me feel loopy.





LZL said:


> she was intended to be a psychiatric service dog, my problems are psychiatric by nature,


And now it all makes sense. It isn’t the dog that needs medication.


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## LZL (Feb 2, 2020)

Tagrenine said:


> Behavioural Neuroscience
> 
> 
> Social play behaviour is very important for animals.
> ...


Thank you! I already have an appointment next month


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## LZL (Feb 2, 2020)

Thank you


diane0905 said:


> I’m glad you have the beach. My dogs have always loved going there. I’m sorry about your situation and hope you are able to remedy it.


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## LZL (Feb 2, 2020)

SRW said:


> And now it all makes sense. It isn’t the dog that needs medication.


***? We are bullying people now for having medication in the past?


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## LZL (Feb 2, 2020)

Classic censoring the good old what the duck


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

SRW said:


> And now it all makes sense. It isn’t the dog that needs medication.


I know you have a unique sense of humor, but that felt unkind.


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## CCoopz (Jun 2, 2020)

SRW said:


> And now it all makes sense. It isn’t the dog that needs medication.


As a mental health professional I am very saddened by such a derogatory statement.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

LZL said:


> ***? We are bullying people now for having medication in the past?


Bullying? I wish you and your pup only the very best.
I just got back from field training with a bunch of 'merican dog beaters all morning as we do most mornings. Believe it or not, no dogs got hit.
My 9 month old Lily did a great job on some very tough marks and a couple 250 - 350 yard blinds. The only thing about training she doesn't love is when it isn't her turn and when we are done for the day.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

CCoopz said:


> As a mental health professional I am very saddened by such a derogatory statement.


How was it derogatory? I know many people that need medication and have never thought of it as anything to be ashamed of.


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## LZL (Feb 2, 2020)

SRW said:


> Bullying? I wish you and your pup only the very best.
> I just got back from field training with a bunch of 'merican dog beaters all morning as we do most mornings. Believe it or not, no dogs got hit.
> My 9 month old Lily did a great job on some very tough marks and a couple 250 - 350 yard blinds. The only thing about training she doesn't love is when it isn't her turn and when we are done for the day.


You’re fake, I would love to put an E collar or prong on you for training purposes, maybe a lesson about honesty and sincerity. So fun a cultural exchange


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## CCoopz (Jun 2, 2020)

SRW said:


> How was it derogatory? I know many people that need medication and have never thought of it as anything to be ashamed of.


You know full well what you were insinuating with that comment. Also that comment did not come from a helpful place, rather it was laced with blame and judgement.
That is my last comment on the matter. I hope that this post does not get hijacked and instead I would like to suggest the focus goes back to the OP’s clearly stated requests.


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## CCoopz (Jun 2, 2020)

N/A


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

LZL said:


> You’re fake, I would love to put an E collar or prong on you for training purposes, maybe a lesson about honesty and sincerity. So fun a cultural exchange


I feel bullied. 😢 

My dogs don't though, in fact they are never happier than when I am putting e collars on them.


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## LZL (Feb 2, 2020)

SRW said:


> I feel bullied. 😢
> 
> My dogs don't though, in fact they are never happier than when I am putting e collars on them.


buzzzzz


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

This is the *Last time* I am going to remind everyone participating in this thread to be sure your posts are complying with the Forum Rules. 

If you are not familiar with them, they can be reviewed here-

(1) GRF Board Rules & Registration Agreement | Golden Retriever Dog Forums (goldenretrieverforum.com)


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## Mosaic (Oct 22, 2020)

My understanding is that this comment and others break several forum rules.
i would be interested to see a moderator‘s response


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## LZL (Feb 2, 2020)

CAROLINA MOM said:


> This is the *Last time* I am going to remind everyone participating in this thread to be sure your posts are complying with the Forum Rules.
> 
> If you are not familiar with them, they can be reviewed here-
> 
> (1) GRF Board Rules & Registration Agreement | Golden Retriever Dog Forums (goldenretrieverforum.com)


Now I know why your name is Mom. That bold cursive Last Time is really giving a vibe


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

LZL said:


> Now I know why your name is Mom. That bold cursive Last Time is really giving a vibe


Yes, my son and my money went to the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, aka CAROLINA. 
When you have a child attending Carolina, you become a CAROLINA MOM or CAROLINA DAD.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Mosaic said:


> My understanding is that this comment and others break several forum rules.
> i would be interested to see a moderator‘s response


No open discussions regarding any disciplinary action is ever discussed openly on the Forum per Rule #15.

If anyone has a question regarding a Forum rule, feel free to contact me or any member of the Mod Team.

Any actions regarding a member are confidential between the member and the Mod Team as the Mod Team reviews posts and all decisions are made as a Team by majority vote.


ETA: this thread explains how posts and reported posts are reviewed by the Mod Team. 

How Reported Posts are handled on GRF. | Golden Retriever Dog Forums (goldenretrieverforum.com)


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## DblTrblGolden2 (Aug 22, 2018)

Can we just close this thread? Does the OP have to make that request? This is just brining out the worst in everyone. Happy Holidays! 

To think I come on here during the day to relieve the stress of work...lol


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## LZL (Feb 2, 2020)

DblTrblGolden2 said:


> Can we just close this thread? Does the OP have to make that request? This is just brining out the worst in everyone. Happy Holidays!
> 
> To think I come on here during the day to relieve the stress of work...lol


This thread sure is a ride and I’m just rolling with it. After 5 pages I already had one question related reply, a couple other friendly ones, and the rest was all Wild West


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

CAROLINA MOM said:


> Yes, my son and my money went to the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, aka CAROLINA.
> When you have a child attending Carolina, you become a CAROLINA MOM or CAROLINA DAD.


How about the Gamecocks? lol 🤪 😃






I've been to Chapel Hill. Beautiful campus.


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## aesthetic (Apr 23, 2015)

*This thread is being closed due to continuous rule violations.*

Please contact a mod if you have any questions. Thank you!


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