# Autoimmune Thyroiditis?



## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

I have a few questions I want answered from people with thyroid dogs or anyone in general. Its been suggested to me several times on here and elsewhere that Lincoln very well could have a thyroid problem. Now, I shot Dr Dodds off an email to confirm if I run the test here she could interpret the results for me. Here are his symptoms could someone please tell me or explain to me as to why this points towards thyroid??

- He has NO weight issues. None. 
- He is NOT lazy...

- He has constant skin infections that clear up with antibiotics and come back when stopped. 
- His lower half is really dry and flaky his upper half and where he commonly gets infections is really oily and gross. Leaves a residue on your hand. 
- He has eye problems
- He has gut problems
- He scratches a ton
- He sheds like mad, no lie. The fur just falls on him 24/7 in fact I dont know how he has fur left. 
- He has low WBC count and an off platelet count (its fine according to the blood work this time but has been off before)
- He has what I think is hyperpigmintation (black areas on his skin)

Im reading all this stuff can point towards thyroid. But arent dogs with a thyroid problem suppose to be fat and lazy rather then active and a perfect weight? Should I really test his thyroid? Maybe someone can offer me advice etc


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Not necessarily. Maggie was tested by Dr Dodds after her annual lab showed a low normal T4. Her only symptom was a slight thinning of her hair and she has always been rather "shy". Sure enough, when her thyroid 5 panel came back from Hemopet she was hypo all across the board. She is and always has been very thin. You might want to read Dr. Dodds book, The Thyroid Epidemic. It has tons of info.


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

My foster Duke was actually underweight when I got him and he's hypothyroid--his obvious symptoms: darkened skin, major hair loss


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Those symptoms you describe sound exactly like my Barkley's symptoms and he was diagnosed as hypothyroid around age 9, after I asked his vet to run a panel. He was always active, almost to the day he died and he was very thin for his size--57 lbs. He shed like crazy, had constant allergy/skin infections, hyper-pigmentation, and anal sac issues. He didn't have any digestive issues (my other thyroid dog Toby does) and he didn't have any blood count deviations. 

Toby is also on supplementation, and I suspected he had a thyroid problem when he developed a hot spot twice in the same spot--no allergies, no other skin issues, but he gained weight about the same time as the hot spot issue. I asked for a panel, it was inconclusive, but his vet agreed he fit a hypothyroid profile and we started a very low dose on him as a test. The change was dramatic--no more hot spots, his weight stabilized down and he started behaving a little better. He tested in normal ranges with the supplement, then he started bouncing in his levels during subsequent tests--high and low--based on the seasons. This is not common with dogs--sometimes seen with cats. About this same time we started to see digestive issues, and after extensive tests, he was diagnosed with cobalamin and folate deficiencies. 

To be sure you need that thyroid panel, but based on what you described, Lincoln's symptoms very well could be thyroid related.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

So would it be worth just trying a very low dose of the thyroid meds to see if theres improvement or should I run the test anyway? Im just concerned that my vet will refuse to do medication if Dr Dodds say he needs it. I dont see this new vet doing that as they have been great to me so far but I dont know. He was the one who said hes lean and very active and thats not what a thyroid dog is...

I am having the vet run the blood work here and then I am faxing Dr Dodds a copy of the results and paying her a consult fee. Its much easier then shipping a vial of blood cross border and risk delays etc


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

If I were in your shoes, I'd want the thyroid panel done first, then if it's questionable--and in Toby's case there were some inconsistent results--then possibly discuss with your vet if a trail run is warranted. If I remember right, we agreed on a dose amount and I supplemented for 6 weeks (??) then we did an absorption test to recheck the level--that required me to dose him 4 to 6 hours before the blood was drawn. 

My advice is to discuss it with your vet and hopefully you will both be on the same page about what to do.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

Im hoping he will be on the same page as I am. I really like this vet and dont really wish to find another. I like the staff as well (well the staff I met anyway). Im going to speak to the tech tomorrow to see if she feels he will be receptive to the thyroid problem if I print off stuff for him to read. 

Does anyone have any good articles I could print off to show the vet on Thursday?

So if it is a thyroid problem...and we put him on meds...in theory the constant skin infections will stop?


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

What is the cost of this from dr. dodds?


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

Dr Dodds wants $135 for the test which includes a CBC and Chemistry Panel. I already had the CBC done and the Chemistry Panel done so I just want the thyroid portion which is $80. Then, you have to factor in the cost of overnight shipping to the West coast of the US from Ontario, Canada. That will likely run about $60. So its actually cheaper for me to run the test she needs with my vet here and fax her the results and pay a consult fee with her


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

You can just do the thyroid 5 test from Dr Dodds for $80.00. That's the T4, free T4, T3, free T3 and the antibodies. That's what we do.


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

Don't medicate for it til it is diagnosised. You could get the panel done and then research normal Shepard results for thyroid panels if you don't have the money right away or are hasten to have Dr. Dobb's do the analysis if labs come back "normal." Not saying to diagnosis yourself just look into it. 

Maybe a shepard or similar forum?


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Dr. Dodd's consult fee is pretty minimal.... if I remember right $30.???? It should be on the hemopet page.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> You can just do the thyroid 5 test from Dr Dodds for $80.00. That's the T4, free T4, T3, free T3 and the antibodies. That's what we do.


Yes but then I have to pay about $60 for shipping on top of that plus a $45 consult fee with Dr Dodds? Or does she not charge me a consult fee if I choose to do the blood work with her?


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

No if she does the lab work, the consult comes with the results, emailed to you and your vet. The consult fee is if she interprets your lab that you had done elsewhere.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

I just did a quote for shipping online. Came to $70. I think I will just run the test she wants here then fax her the results. Who knows maybe my vet will think hes low and I may not need Dr Dodds


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## vrmueller (Jun 14, 2008)

Ruby has autoimmune thyroiditis and it was confirmed with bloodwork by Dr. Dodds. She was almost 3 years old at diagnosis. She was never overweight or lethargic. Her symptoms were:

digestive issues/runs and vomiting
severe allergies
biting, chewing and scratching year round
eye gooing up constantly
behavior issues (not your textbook Golden)

I will add that prior to this testing, Ruby was allergy tested by her vet and appropriate action was taken to switch food and allergy shots for environmental were started. Since the food switch, her digestive issues have improved greatly. I gave her shots for 2 years and never saw any improvement and stopped about 2 months ago. She started on Soloxine at the time of Dr. Dodds' diagnosis and to tell you the truth, there has been no improvement with allergies or behavior. She is fearful of people, animals and has OCD.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

So there may be zero improvement with his constant skin infections even if he is put on thyroid medications? That makes me not want to bother testing for it now


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

Run the test, if you're lucky it's the thyroid that you can easily treat for which is what I was hoping with my own golden that is plagued by allergies & ear infections unfortunately, his thyroid isn't the culprit but I can cross that off the list.


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## 3 goldens (Sep 30, 2005)

Scooter was daignosed about th time he turned 4 and his symptoms were thinning of fur plus it went coarse, he put on weight, he didn't have as much energy, his attitude changed---he took a disike to the two young boys next door. I thought they had been tormenting him oer the fence--they were/are brats. But just a few weeks on the meds and he was back to his old self. Diet food help take the extra weight off.

Buck, full brother, later litter to Scooter. I have a full blood panel done before he has a dental and his thyroid showed super low. He did not have a single sympton. He had not put on any weight, he alwasy trotted rather than walk except when on leash, his fur was thick and glossy. It took my vet and I both by surprise. And his was lower than Scooters had ever been. He was on 1 1/2 the dosage of soloxine as Scooter. But at his next hecked up, his level was normal and reamined so.

I am low thyroid. My hair thinned (I just thought it weas old age), I didn't gain weight but I was dragging tail and probably sleeping 14-16 hours a day. This ws 4 years ago this month. Lat month the doc had to up my dosage as I was "dragging tail" again.

Do Not give him any meds without diagnosis. To little will not help and I don't know what would happen with to much,.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

Ok. I have some people in my right ear telling me its a thyroid issue. Then I have people in my left ear telling me its an immune system issue and or adrenal problem. I am at loss. In all honesty, if this was your dog what TEST would you be running aside from allergy testing?

These are what I pulled off the net...in red is what he has and in blue is what hes had bouts of

TABLE 2. CLINICAL SIGNS OF CANINE HYPOTHYROIDISM

Alterations in Cellular Metabolism
lethargy
mental dullness
exercise intolerance
neurologic signs
polyneuropathy
seizures
weight gain
cold intolerance
mood swings
hyperexcitability
stunted growth
chronic infections
Neuromuscular Problems
weakness
stiffness
laryngeal paralysis
facial paralysis
"tragic" expression
knuckling or dragging feet
muscle wasting
megaesophagus
head tilt
drooping eyelids

Dermatologic Diseases
dry, scaly skin and dandruff
coarse, dull coat
bilaterally symmetrical hair loss
"rat tail"; "puppy coat"
hyperpigmentation
seborrhea or greasy skin
pyoderma or skin infections
myxedema
chronic offensive skin odor

Reproductive Disorders
infertility
lack of libido
testicular atrophy
hypospermia
aspermia
prolonged interestrus interval
absence of heat cycles
silent heats
pseudopregnancy
weak, dying or stillborn pups

Cardiac Abnormalities
slow heart rate (bradycardia)
cardiac arrhythmias
cardiomyopathy

Gastrointestinal Disorders
constipation
diarrhea
vomiting

Hematologic Disorders
bleeding
bone marrow failure
low - red blood cells (anemia), white blood cells, platelets

Ocular Diseases
corneal lipid deposits
corneal ulceration
uveitis
keratoconjunctivitis sicca or "dry eye"
infections of eyelid glands (Meibomian gland)
Vogt-Koyanagi-Harada syndrome

Other Associated Disorders
IgA deficiency
loss of smell (dysosmia)
loss of taste
glycosuria
chronic active hepatitis
other endocrinopathies
adrenal
pancreatic
parathyroid

I just dont know what to do anymore


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

Another question I had was he itches a lot. I am reading usually with a thyroid problem the skin isnt itchy. Could he have a thyroid problem and the constant infections hes getting from low thyroid is causing him to itch?


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## vrmueller (Jun 14, 2008)

Do the testing with Dr. Dodds to rule out the autoimmune thyroiditis. This diagnosis is not the same as hypothyroid. Animals with this condition are at a higher risk of having seizures if not properly medicated. In the event he has this & is on the Soloxine, his skin & digestive issues may improve. Dr. Dodds can answer your questions as she is the expert.


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

Start by getting the test done then go forward from there


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

I sent her an email hopefully she replies. My friend said she had sent her an email once and never got a reply :S


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

Lincoln_16 said:


> I sent her an email hopefully she replies. My friend said she had sent her an email once and never got a reply :S


Is there a phone number you could call? They probably get tons of emails everyday- A phone call may be more effective.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

Yeah I think I may give them a shout tomorrow (will love to see my phone bill after that call lol). I am going to speak to the vet tech tomorrow possibly doing a skin scraping. I will drop off papers tomorrow and regardless of what the vet says I think im going to run the 6 panel thyroid test.


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

Lincoln_16 said:


> Yeah I think I may give them a shout tomorrow (will love to see my phone bill after that call lol). I am going to speak to the vet tech tomorrow possibly doing a skin scraping. I will drop off papers tomorrow and regardless of what the vet says I think im going to run the 6 panel thyroid test.


Sounds like a plan


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Supplementation may, or may not, improve skin conditions--it really depends on the dog. I've seen improvement with one dog, slight improvement, but no cure, with another.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

Well if theres no improvement with Lincoln I will have some serious thinking to do. I doubt he is happy living with his skin in a constant blistery, scabby, sore state. Its spreading to the rest of his skin I think ill put him on antibiotics after I do a skin scraping until I can get him in for thyroid testing at the end of the month


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

Lincoln_16 said:


> Well if theres no improvement with Lincoln I will have some serious thinking to do. I doubt he is happy living with his skin in a constant blistery, scabby, sore state. Its spreading to the rest of his skin I think ill put him on antibiotics after I do a skin scraping until I can get him in for thyroid testing at the end of the month


I would do more than just a skin scraping- Have it also sent out for Culture and Sensitivey just encase it bacteria, mite, or fungus caused flaring when his immune system is off balance. I think I paid $200 for Zoey to have it run as a puppy- As a nurse I can easily bring crap home and accidentally spread it to them- So I don't play games


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Lincoln_16 said:


> Well if theres no improvement with Lincoln I will have some serious thinking to do. I doubt he is happy living with his skin in a constant blistery, scabby, sore state. Its spreading to the rest of his skin I think ill put him on antibiotics after I do a skin scraping until I can get him in for thyroid testing at the end of the month


With Barkley we still had incidents of skin infections after we started dosing him--they were milder, but I can't say for certain it was the supplementation that reduced the severity. We did the scrapings, antibiotics, with two different medicated shampoos daily, leaving each in 20 minutes, then rinsing (what a hassle). I believe he got a staph and yeast infection at the same time. He had diagnosed allergies (environmental) even before his diagnosis. It's possible Lincoln is both allergic and hypothyroid.

Toby hasn't had a skin issue since starting supplementation, except for self-imposed scratching of an adenoma on his muzzle we are dealing with right now. That will come off tomorrow and hopefully stop the scratching of his muzzle.


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

There is hope out there 

Don't give up yet.

The more time Buddy spends outside the more ear infections and hot spots he gets but he loves to be outside. He actually smells the flowers and chasing butterflies. Do I keep him cooped up I inside because it would be easier so I won't have to treat another hot spot- No! I let him play in muck and chase his butterflies.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

I also have to look at finances as well. His two other brothers have the same issues as well. Ones been put down already after $3000 in testing revealed nothing. I dont have the money to pay $59 for an exam then $75 for four weeks of antibiotics just for it to come back a week later. Im going to do a couple more tests then decide


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

Lincoln_16 said:


> I also have to look at finances as well. His two other brothers have the same issues as well. Ones been put down already after $3000 in testing revealed nothing. I dont have the money to pay $59 for an exam then $75 for four weeks of antibiotics just for it to come back a week later. Im going to do a couple more tests then decide


What does the breeder have to say for themselves?


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## Wendy427 (Apr 4, 2009)

To the OP: You might try reading thru this link re other pet owners' experience with hypothyroidism. Seems as if some of the symptoms they saw in their dogs, are what you've seen in yours:

Hypothyroid Remedies for Dogs, Pets


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

His skin is really worse today and hes acting weird. Didnt wanna play with his dog friend nor did he want to leave my side on the walk. Off to the vet right now


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

I am back from the vet. The skin scrape confirmed Staph. I need to make a decision on what thyroid panel to run because I cannot get a hold of Dr Dodds and hes getting the blood draw I think Thursday.


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## tikiandme (May 16, 2010)

Two years ago my dog had a bad staph infection on his back. I insisted my vet send a blood sample to MSU for a premium thyroid panel. This test includes testing for autoantibodies. It takes about two weeks and cost about $100.00. It was worth it. The endocrinologist diagnosed autoimmune thyroiditis. I went to Dr. Dodd's Hemopet Website and downloaded the form for a consultation on the bloodwork. I filled out the form and explained about all of his symptoms and the antibiotics he had been givenfor the infection. I e-mailed the form and the consultation fee (I think it was $35.00.) I sent a copy of the test also. I got an answer from her in less than 2 days. She agreed he had autoimmune thyroiditis and even told me what dosage of medication she felt he needed.


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## tikiandme (May 16, 2010)

Sorry, I sent the previous reply before I was finished. Since you are in Canada, Maybe you could send the sample to MSU or to a comparable lab in Canada, and then send the results to Dodds like I did. That might be less expensive for you than packing it and shipping it to Dr. Dodds. She had no problem with interpreting MSU's results and giving me her opinion. Also, if your dog is on antibiotics for the staph infection, make sure he stays on them for a month even if it looks like it's all better before that. If you don't, then the infection is more likely to pop back up. Good luck. I know health problems like this can be very frustrating. After my dog started thyroid supplementation he got more lively almost immediately. His skin probplems cleared up in a month or two. I also gave him a medicated bath once a week and that helped until the infection went away. He hasn't had a staph infection since and the sensitive stomach he had has gotten much better.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

I got a quote for the blood work. For the Free T4, Free T3, T4 and T3 plus the T4/T3 antibodies will Cost $132 after taxes. If I want to add in a CBC and Super Chem (which I doubt I will as he already had one this past April) it will be $224.

The vet has allowed me to do the blood work Thursday and pay in 2 weeks. So I will allow his specialist to read the results for me. It has to go to a lab in the States I think he said NY. Then...depending on whats said I may consult Dr Dodds. 

Will being on antibiotics/steroids effect anything? Hes on them now until we can run the blood work I just dont want it to effect Dr Dodds reading it if I need her to


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## tikiandme (May 16, 2010)

I don't remember if my dog was on antibiotics or not when I had him tested. I know he wasn't on any steroid. From what i've read, Dr. Dodds says steriods can reduce thyroid function by 20 to 25 percent, but, if that fact is taken into account, you should still be able to get a proper diagnosis. I'd call your vet and have him ask his specialist what he thinks. If it's okay to test while on the medications, just make sure to remind your vet to note what meds Lincoln is taking on whatever paperwork is sent in with the bloodwork to the specialist.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

I got a reply back from Dr Dodds. She would prefer I mail the blood serum to her. I do not feel comfortable doing so. I am lucky I got my vet to at least let me fax her the results. I dont want to push my luck to far with this new vet. So he may not end up with his thyroid evaluated by Dr Dodds at all now unless she will accept a faxed record of his results


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Penny & Maggie's Mom probably remembers it better because it was her dog involved, but just want to make sure Lincoln didn't get any vaccines recently as Dr. Dodds wanted P&MM to wait a set time frame after her dog was vaccinated to send in the blood work.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Yes, I think you wait at least 6 weeks after rabies vaccines before testing.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

He hasnt seen a vaccine since January 2009 . 

Okay. So heres whats being tested. 

Free T4, Free T3, T4, T3, T3/T4 autoantibodies and possibly TgAA. I am also running a Super Chemistry/CBC panel for $224 maybe a bit more if I want to run the TgAA. 

Hopefully this will tell me whats wrong with my dog. Dr Dodds explained to me hes likely sensitive to staph and he always will be, but having a thyroid problem or another problem makes it worse so he breaks out how he is. With meds he will still be sensitive to staph but it will be less severe. 

Before I make any other decisions on what I will be doing with him I will wait for blood results to come back. If these come back all normal I am afraid theres nothing else I can do for him . But I will try to remain positive and hope its a thyroid problem thats easily treatable


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Make sure the blood draw is done 4 hours post meal for the best results.


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## tikiandme (May 16, 2010)

If at all possible, get the TgAA done. When my dog had his test done, the TgAA's were extremely high. That's what showed conclusively that he had autoimmune thyroiditis. I didn't speak to Dr.Dodds before hand. I just filled out the forms on her website and e-mailed all the info and the MSU results and explained in an e-mail exactly what had been going on with him, nthe mediations he had been given in certain time frames, etc. She didn't have a problem interpreting that lab's bloodwork. I'm pretty sure if you send her all the info and the bloodwork results and the consultation fee she wouldn't refuse you, She seems to really care about the dogs and this is her life's passion. Just my opinion. I would imagine the experts at th NY lab are very competent also. I trusted the MSU lab, but I wanted a second opinion, and Dr.Dodds confirmed what they said. She went on to tell me to do minimal vacc's (every 3 years) and rabies as required by law, and feed a grain free diet with no wheat, corn, or soy. She also explained what happens to the thyroid gland when the TgAA's are affecting it. Hopefully, it will be a cut and dried case and there won't be any question that he needs supplementation. And if he does that hopefully will help improve his condition It's not fun to have to watch a dog be so uncomfortable. Again, good luck to you and Lincoln. He' s cutie.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

They told me to fast him after midnight. So hes going in for blood work at 10:30am. When should I feed him??


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

I hope all works out good for him, that would be very tough to have to put him asleep.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

If they said to fast him, then fast him. The reason I said 4 hours is because most people feed in the morning and if you had an early appointment, I wanted you to be aware that you get your best results after fasting him for some time.

I just realized why I said 4 hours is if your dog is already on a supplement, you don't want to draw the blood within 4 hours of giving the pill. Sheesh. I knew I said 4 hours for some reason. Sorry, brain fart on my part.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

fostermom said:


> If they said to fast him, then fast him. The reason I said 4 hours is because most people feed in the morning and if you had an early appointment, I wanted you to be aware that you get your best results after fasting him for some time.
> 
> I just realized why I said 4 hours is if your dog is already on a supplement, you don't want to draw the blood within 4 hours of giving the pill. Sheesh. I knew I said 4 hours for some reason. Sorry, brain fart on my part.


Thats fine, I wasnt sure what to do because ive heard a few different things. He usually does eat in the morning around 9am. But since hes getting this test im going to feed him his morning meal a little later. The test was 11:30am but I bumped it to 10:30am.

So if I dont feed him past midnight the night before thats almost 12 hours is that long enough do you think?


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Lincoln_16 said:


> They told me to fast him after midnight. So hes going in for blood work at 10:30am. When should I feed him??


He'll probably be fine if you feed him before you go to bed, assuming it's before midnight. You can feed him immediately after the draw. I've been known to bring Toby's food with me to feed him right after a fasting blood draw is finished. His vet prefers all blood tests to be fasting draws.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

Yeah. I have decided to not do the Super Chem Panel. He had the majority of that tested in April. So I am going to do the full thyroid and a CBC to double check his WBC, RBC, Platelets and all that. 

After that if his thyroid is normal, im going to consider a prescription diet (depending on the cost).


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Has Cushing's disease been ruled out?


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

cubbysan said:


> Has Cushing's disease been ruled out?


Nothing on his blood work points towards Cushings nor does his symptoms. Maybe I should look into it further? What test is run to confirm Cushings Disease I will look into it?. Dr Dodds explained to me that hes allergic to staph which is why hes so itchy. But I dont know so I thought starting out with a thyroid test would be a good start


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