# the "iron cross" drill



## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I mentioned this is another post, but thought I'd stick it in its own thread just because it's kind of a cool drill. Probably goes by another name, this is just what my pro calls it. It's similar to baseball. Heck, maybe it IS baseball, lol.
We are SO stuck on this drill right now.  I am thinking we will NEVER get past this one. :no: 
Now as I'm describing this, this is the end result of the drill. We started out in bits and pieces, then finally put all together. We didn't just go out the first day and do this.
There are 4 stakes marking what would typically be the bases of a baseball field. They are not far from each other, about 100 feet across. That puts the "pitcher's mound" about 50 feet from each stake.
Stake 1 is where first base would be, stake 2 at second base, stake 3 at third base, stake 4 at home plate. There is a pile of 4 or more bumpers at each base.
We stand at stake 4, and I line him to any of the other 3 stakes. He returns all the way to me. _Together we heel to any of the other 3 stakes_, and then I line him to a different stake. We do this several times, lining to the stake straight across or the stake on either side randomly. _We don't line from the same stake twice in a row, we keep moving randomly around the field. _We demand perfect heeling in between. We also demand nice crisp retrieves, with good speed both heading out and back in.
For part 2, I line him to the stake directly across from where we are, then when he's on the way back I whistle-sit him at the pitcher's mound, meet him there, and take the bumper from him. I toss the bumper to what would be the right-over pile from where he is. Then I cast him back on a right back to the back pile. When he's coming back, I again meet him halfway and take the bumper. I pivot with him so that his back is to a different stake, I toss the bumper over his head and slightly to the left to the back pile, then I cast him in a left over cast. 
We keep doing this until he's done quite a few right back, left back, right over, left over from various stakes; he never faces the same way twice in a row. It's important apparently to toss the bumper to a pile that will tempt him away from the cast I am about to give him.
Next we repeat just a few of the lining drills from part 1, maybe 3 or 4, again moving from stake to stake. On the next time I send him back, I whistle stop him when he's to "home plate", and cast him to either of the over piles or left back or right back. We only do the whistle-stop and cast once.
We finish by lining to the back pile once or twice more.
My pro swears by this drill because you are moving around the field, which he says to humans is very simple but giving the dogs a different viewpoint for each line or cast is much harder for them than we would expect. 
We cannot "graduate" from this drill (although he revisits it during their whole life) until we are pretty close to 100% on every line, every cast, from every stake. If Tito turns the wrong way on a back cast :doh:, we fail....
BTW, Tito considers this a rather fun drill. I would have thought he'd find it tedious, but he really doesn't.


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

Actually to my dogs that was a lot of fun. Get's tedious to me but he loved it and when I see the results in field it is worth it . I did a variation of that drill but no stakes just piles. I would line him to each pile from the center to identify the piles. Sit him in the center and cast also from each pile. I move to the outside "ring" of piles and sit him when he gets to center. Take the bumper move to a different pile with him still sitting and throw the bumper to a different pile then cast him away from the pile he was focusing on. Remote sit him in the center and go take the bumper (he stays sitting). If he had trouble with a cast I would take him out of the ring and work on the cast. Go back give the cast once. Then not come back to it again after going through the full range of the other casts. If he keeps fouling up another cast,back outside the ring we go. I might mention that if it is left back he is not getting we work on left back and right back. If it's left over,we work on left over and right over to try to get some balance. It is the same drill.

Gunner will never "graduate" from it and Radar didn't either just added more piles. 4 piles goes to 6 piles then to 8 piles and becomes 8 handed casting drill" I run that similar drill right before tests and when his handling gets sloppy.

That is my drill of choice when his "energy" level is up. Make him do a little brain work.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Cute, it's kinda like walking baseball but with fixed piles which would make it easier.
Have you done walking baseball?


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Hey, I never thought of removing the stakes!! That's a great idea!
My pro says the next step is to pick up the whole set-up and move it to a completely different location. Several times. 

One thing I forgot to mention is that on the casting part, no body language and no verbal commands. Or as my pro says to me (all the time, LOL) SHUT UP and HOLD STILL ! ! ! 



Radarsdad said:


> Actually to my dogs that was a lot of fun. Get's tedious to me but he loved it and when I see the results in field it is worth it . I did a variation of that drill but no stakes just piles. I would line him to each pile from the center to identify the piles. Sit him in the center and cast also from each pile. I move to the outside "ring" of piles and sit him when he gets to center. Take the bumper move to a different pile with him still sitting and throw the bumper to a different pile then cast him away from the pile he was focusing on. Remote sit him in the center and go take the bumper (he stays sitting). If he had trouble with a cast I would take him out of the ring and work on the cast. Go back give the cast once. Then not come back to it again after going through the full range of the other casts. If he keeps fouling up another cast,back outside the ring we go. I might mention that if it is left back he is not getting we work on left back and right back. If it's left over,we work on left over and right over to try to get some balance. It is the same drill.
> 
> Gunner will never "graduate" from it and Radar didn't either just added more piles. 4 piles goes to 6 piles then to 8 piles and becomes 8 handed casting drill" I run that similar drill right before tests and when his handling gets sloppy.
> 
> That is my drill of choice when his "energy" level is up. Make him do a little brain work.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Hmmm, not by that name??? But since I don't know the names of anything except the wagon wheel, I'm not sure? Inclined to say no....




K9-Design said:


> Cute, it's kinda like walking baseball but with fixed piles which would make it easier.
> Have you done walking baseball?


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

hotel4dogs said:


> Hmmm, not by that name??? But since I don't know the names of anything except the wagon wheel, I'm not sure? Inclined to say no....


Not that good with names either,would have to go look most of them up to get the proper nomenclature.:doh::doh:


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

The only other one I know by name is "connect the dots", which probably has a different name, or many different names, none of which I know!




Radarsdad said:


> Not that good with names either,would have to go look most of them up to get the proper nomenclature.:doh::doh:


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

What I am doing starts as Wagon Wheel lining till the dog gets that down. Then becomes a casting drill, I call it 8 handed casting, probably not the right term. I start the casting part, a pile at the time and work it up to 8.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

we haven't done any angle casts yet, my pro wants Tito 1000% percent on the 3-handed casting, everywhere, with any distractions, before we introduce the angle casts....


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

That's a given it, it all builds on the last step. Not so good at explaining stuff. Patience is a big one in this one because it's a NO-NO drill. 



> we haven't done any angle casts yet, my pro wants Tito 1000% percent on the 3-handed casting, everywhere, with any distractions, before we introduce the angle casts....


Good advice, if you have holes and advance you have to go back and do it again. UGH
Been there done that and made the T shirt


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## Jige (Mar 17, 2011)

That sounds like something fun to do with my sisters lab and Jige when he is a bit older. Thanks for the fun game.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Yep, sometimes it gets a bit frustrating or disheartening and I get tempted to think "oh, he's just learning, I'll let that go for now" or "I'll come back and fix that later" but I figure I'm paying this pro good money for these lessons, I need to do what he tells me to do. And, he's trained a whole pile of GRHRCH dogs, I've trained ONE JH...with his help....




Radarsdad said:


> That's a given it, it all builds on the last step. Not so good at explaining stuff. Patience is a big one in this one because it's a NO-NO drill.
> 
> 
> Good advice, if you have holes and advance you have to go back and do it again. UGH
> Been there done that and made the T shirt


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

hotel4dogs said:


> Hmmm, not by that name??? But since I don't know the names of anything except the wagon wheel, I'm not sure? Inclined to say no....


Only Walking Baseball is Walking Baseball. Its dynamics are unique. If it contains piles or lines, it's not Walking Baseball.





 
I would be interested in a diagram, or even better a video clip of this "Iron cross drill".

EvanG


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## glnbrgold (May 26, 2011)

I was hoping we would get the walking baseball clip out of this thread. It's one of my favorite drills and sure enough, I was doing it wrong. I do have D.L's book, but this drill is hard to visualize. 

Oh, and at one time I had the smartworks books too... but my bratty Pointer ate them. Maybe I should get the video's?? Harder to eat. 

Thanks Evan


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Hi Evan
Thanks for the walking baseball video. I really like it because it can be either very simple, or very complicated depending on how you run it. 
Unfortunately, I have a video camera that appears to take only HD video, and a dial-up connection. I tried to put a 2 minute video of Tito doing a water retrieve on youtube, and it said it was a 97 minute upload....thus, not possible to do a video unless I can figure out how to compress the files. I've been working on it, and getting absolutely no where. I'd love to post some videos of the boy working. If I were to video the iron cross, which takes about 20-30 minutes, it would be a 4 day upload. 
I can try to do some diagrams. You have nifty little graphics, I'm restricted to pen and paper and anyone I've sent drills to can tell you they're not too great...but I'm happy to give it a go!


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

hotel4dogs said:


> Hi Evan
> You have nifty little graphics, I'm restricted to pen and paper and anyone I've sent drills to can tell you they're not too great...but I'm happy to give it a go!


If you have *microsoft paint* on your computer you may experiment with drawing up a diagram that way. It can be saved as a jpeg file, which will make it easier to post up on the net. Good luck!

EvanG


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

nope, no paint on here....will try to do some diagrams in the next couple of days!


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

hotel4dogs said:


> If I were to video the iron cross, which takes about 20-30 minutes, it would be a 4 day upload.
> I can try to do some diagrams.


Wow! You really spend that much time on it? I mean the working part...sounds like a lot to me.

I have never heard of this drill very interesting. Of course I am a newbie myself and don't have a pro to train with...

Have you not done single t? Is that next after this, or five handed casting (with angle backs)?


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Yes, the working part of it is fairly long, because you do lining, casting, and then lining again, followed by a remote sit-cast, and more lining. So it takes about 20 minutes or more to really do it correctly. But remember, this is the end result. When you first start doing it, you just do pieces of it at a time, so it doesn't take long at all until you put it all together.
Angle backs will come soon, but not until he NEVER (ok almost never, LOL) turns the wrong way on a right-back or left-back cast, no matter what the suction. That's why in this drill you are throwing a bumper to the right-over if you're going to cast him right-back, or to the right-back if you are going to cast him to the left-back, to get him *tempted* to turn the wrong way or head to the wrong pile. He still will sometimes turn the wrong way, especially now, I've got the stakes pulled in so that they're only 50 feet apart, so the piles are less than 25 feet away from him, which makes them really close and tempting! (It makes the lining part of the drill stupidly easy, though, LOL).
To be honest, my pro is not a big fan of the single T. At all.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

another nice thing about the iron cross is that it can be done even when it's brutally hot and humid, like it is here today (we're expected to set a record), because they are running such short distances, for a relatively short period of time.

p.s. I have watched my pro work a couple of his GRHRCH dogs, and I never cease to be amazed at the level of precision he demands from them. He's the only pro I've watched work/train, so I imagine most or all are the same, but to me it's amazing. He literally expects dogs to be able to differentiate between a line that runs 100 yards out and ends in one place, and another one that ends 20 feet over. It's simply incredible to watch.


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

T work should be solid before getting in to angle backs. You can pass a seniors test with just simple overs and backs with good lines. I think T work helps to hold a line. I also do your Iron Cross with the Double Tee.


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