# Please read! Analyze dogs behavior



## Greenwest (Oct 3, 2011)

I have a 5 year old golden named Lulu. just a super sweet girl, people that regular the parks always want to pet her. Her favorite thing is to dance up to new people and get some pets. 

But when it comes to dogs she takes going to the park very seriously. I take her pretty much every day to a dogs of leash park and I always know how she will react before we get to the dog. She bassicly does exactly what the dog code of honor tells her to do and will never stray froom those guidelines. As she is walking toward the dog on the trail she will lower her head and body, and walk slowly while crouched. Pretty much every time if its a new dog she is facing, before they meet she will be laying on the ground as flat and low as she can get. especially if the dog is big. If it is a bigger dog, it will walk up confidently and there wont be a problem. But what lulu really hates, is when a dog tries to just run at her all bouncy and dominatly playfull like, without any regard to the dog rules. So when a dog runs at her, she will almost always do a little trick move. Where she lies on the ground as flat as can be, then right when the dog would never expect her to do anything she lunges at it with a bark and thumps her nose into their body at someplace. somtimes scaring the other dog a little, and always making lulu the dominant one. 

But lulu would never hurt another dog, she never snarls or bites or even looks like she is going to bite. She is just telling the other dog to back off, she doesnt want to play unless she is in charge. and otherwise wants nother to do with it. sometimes we will come across border collies that dont care who is in charge and they have a blast wrestling and tackling eachother.

But today i came across an old man with his black lab, we pass eachother alot and his dog would always come running at lulu like he owns the whole park wanting to get her to play. And everytime he does this, lulu does one lunge at it and the dog always backs off and lulu continues on with me. One time the old mans black lab laid on the ground in passive and lulu didnt charge at all. just walked up with shoulders high, and kept moving. 

today the old man came up to me and said he was going to pull a gun on my dog if it ever attacked his dog again. this came as a huge shock, I had always smiled at this man. and figured he was aware of these dog interactions. and im just kinda freaked out now. and i dont think i will ever go back to that place which sucks because it is an awesome dog park.

my question is. Am I in line here? because i dont think my dog does anything wrong. And she certainly is not attacking his dog. she is just telling it she isnt a push over and is not going to take **** from a rude young male. 

I know its really long, but hopfully somebody will read this and tell me if I am in line or not. or if LuLU is in line i guess. thanks in advance any input is greatly appreciated.


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## Greenwest (Oct 3, 2011)

I forgot to mention that if its a smaller dog in front of us, she will procede with shoulders held high. and go touch noses with them


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## Greenwest (Oct 3, 2011)

Also Lulu is the dominant female of my 3 female pack.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I would call the police on that guy. The instant anyone mentions shooting my dog is the instant the police will hear about it. 

As far as her behavior... as you describe it, it may be inappropriate by how I expect my dog to behave around other dogs. It's not my dog's job to put other dogs, especially strange dogs, in their place. It might get your dog in trouble if she ever runs into a dog who has dog aggression problems.


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## FinnTastic (Apr 20, 2009)

I'm no expert. I was only going to suggest if you don't get responses tonight. I would recommend bumping your thread up tomorrow when other people may be on the forum. You "bump" up by just posting a reply on this thread and it will bump to the top of the discussion spots. Most people just write 'bumping up'. Good Luck


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## Sterling Archer (Feb 8, 2011)

From the sounds of it...your dog is off its leash. You've got a couple of issues here. 1. If your dog isn't sociable towards dogs that you regularly see...why is it off the leash? 2. The guys dog doesn't think that it owns the whole park...it's just trying to be friendly/sociable (from the sounds of it). 

As to the gun comment...I may be alone in this belief...but consider that a courtesy warning. If your dog did that once...much less multiple times...the guy is well within his right to be angry. As this has happened (the lunging) on multiple occasions, I'm sure he's at a loss as to why your dog is still off a leash.


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## Greenwest (Oct 3, 2011)

thankyou, and I will consider bumping it based on amount of replies. 

I would rather she just ignore any dog she doesnt want to play with, this is what I tried to portray to her when we first started going on walks. But i fear I am only repressing her a natural instinct. and not a bad one either. its the one that lets dogs have a social hierarchy. If the dog is much bigger than her, say german sheapards and up. She will become completly passive. it seems to me that she thinks of it as a game. and she gets as many points as she can.

yeah i called the police, but as i expected they wont do anything about it untill after something horrible has happened.


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## Greenwest (Oct 3, 2011)

i have walked with her off leash in off leash parks almost every day for the last year and a half of my life. I dont think it is right to say that its wrong for my dog to express her unhappyness with the way the other dog is acting. but its ok for the other dog to run up to my dog. If my other dogs run at another dog like a rude fool. then i totally expect the other dogs to get mad at them. 

how would you like it if the guy from down the trail starting running and jumping full speed at you. without any regard to how you felt. you would get mad and think that person is rude for not thinking about you aswell.


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## Greenwest (Oct 3, 2011)

the entire way most people look at dog training is just obsurd. we expect them to be artificial human made friend machines. When in fact they are relatives of an entire species that existed long before humans. with their own social interactions and ways of communicating. when lulu jumped at a bigger dog with a friend a couple yards away about a year ago, and the other dogs didnt like it. so they snapped at her. and i was pefectly ok with that. LUlu came tails between her legs back to me. and never did it again to a more dominant dog


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## Sterling Archer (Feb 8, 2011)

Justify it however you want. The simple fact is that if the wrong person perceives your dog to be a threat...something bad might happen. This is one reason why I won't take my dog to a dog park. I have no interest in putting myself in that situation.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

*This thread actually is why I don't take my guy to dog parks.* *shakes head* 

People train dogs to behave in a way that is appropriate for an animal that can be in public around other people and dogs. When people do not train their dogs, do not control their dogs, do not clean up after their dogs, do not take responsibility for their dogs - that's why there are so few places where you can bring your dog. 

If your dog charged my dog, my dog would not defend himself. However, I would. The last dog who charged my dog got kicked in the side so hard he went running away yelping. 

Or the other time I was at my horse's barn and somebody's female dog kept running up and trying to mount my dog. Each time she jumped on him, I pinched her until she yelped and went running away. 

I don't agree with the guy saying he'd shoot your dog, but owners do have the right to protect their own dogs if they feel they are threatened.

Dogs in their natural state can be a public hazard or nuisance. That is why we train them how to behave appropriately. Even if your dog isn't aggressive, she has some rude manners going on that can get her hurt either by a dog or from the dog's owner.


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

Im no expert but from what you describe I see the lab as confident and socially appropriate (although perhaps annoying) and your dog as quite insecure and defensive.

I'm not sure what the code is that you are referring to but I'd love to hear more about it.


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## Greenwest (Oct 3, 2011)

the code that says in each dog interaction there will be an established and agreed upon hierarchy. 
If the dog is confident and well mannered then he should approach my dog with respect. Just as almost every other dog I meet does. My dog doesnt go charging at other peoples dogs to get attention and play. she waits for them to come to her. and if she thinks they are being rude and not giving her the respect she thinks she deserves. then she tells them what she deserves, and the other dog either says "oh, dam this chick doesnt want me to mess around with her" or it will say "what! i dont think so you little golden, no little golden retreiver bosses me around" lulu does not charge other dogs, she waits for them to come to her then responds based on how they approach her. I dont know where people are coming up with this charging and violent ****. she has never bitten or even snapped at another dog. as i stated before she nudges her nose into them. JUST LIKE DOGS WHO ARE PLAY WRESTLING MIGHT DO

why is it the "confident, well mannered dog" is a dog that instigates interactions without thought or worry? why shouldnt my dog worry a bit when she is passing another dog?


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## Greenwest (Oct 3, 2011)

she has been extreemly socialized her entire life. has lived with other dogs her entire life. its not like she doesnt know how to deal with other dogs. she doesnt like other dogs running at her. lunging with a bark has nothing at all to do with violent behavior. i think anybody that has ever watched the discovery channel know what a k9 looks like when he wants to attack something. he walks head down but shoulders up, he shows teeth, he growls, and he bites. has my dog done any of these things? no


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## Greenwest (Oct 3, 2011)

Megora, my dog does not charge other dogs. and she would not try to defend herself against charging dogs either. she would run away from a dog that actually wanted to fight. I have seen it before. she lays on the ground if a dog is running at her, then when they stop to try to figure out why she is laying on the ground still, she does a quick jump to her feet with a bark. this usually ends with the other adopting passive traits and a mutual sniff in the behind before going their seperate ways. unless ofcourse the dog is bigger. then she will stand up slower and let the big dog sniff her


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## Greenwest (Oct 3, 2011)

and megora if I ever saw somebody kick my dog because she did a half a second lunge at another dog who was instigating an interaction. well...

you dont want to know what I would do.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

Can you take her to the off leash dog park at another time to avoid that person and their dog? Also you might want to have her evaluated by a behaviorist to watch her behavior in a place where the behavior goes on, so they can see it to give you a good opinion. As good as your description is without seeing it, it is hard for us to tell you what is appropriate or not. But from what you describe is not a dog attack. And that man was in the wrong for saying he is going to shoot your dog. But protecting your dog is a different situation if it is being attacked. Which I dont believe your dog was doing.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Sterling Archer said:


> From the sounds of it...your dog is off its leash. You've got a couple of issues here. 1. If your dog isn't sociable towards dogs that you regularly see...why is it off the leash? 2. The guys dog doesn't think that it owns the whole park...it's just trying to be friendly/sociable (from the sounds of it).
> 
> As to the gun comment...I may be alone in this belief...but consider that a courtesy warning. If your dog did that once...much less multiple times...the guy is well within his right to be angry. As this has happened (the lunging) on multiple occasions, I'm sure he's at a loss as to why your dog is still off a leash.


There was a lot in her post, so maybe you missed it, but her dog is not aggressive, she ignores other dogs mostly, and warns away any that she doesn't like, she has not attacked or gotten into any fights with other dogs.

Here is my suggestion, first call the police and report him for threatening to pull a gun your dog. Second avoid the old man, if you see him leash up and leave. Dont' ignore this, he may follow through on you or anyone else he doesn't like.

I really don't think your dog is doing anything wrong and you have every right to be in a public off leash park with a dog that has never been in a fight. Maybe be a little more aware of the dogs that are present and steer clear of ones you know she doesn't like, I'm sure you can observe who is there at different times and can go when ones she is friendly with are there. Personally I think dogs that come charging up into her face are at fault, that is rude dog behavior and they probably get corrected by other dogs as well.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> Personally I think dogs that come charging up into her face are at fault, that is rude dog behavior and they probably get corrected by other dogs as well.


I have to agree totally with this. Not so much about letting my dog "correct" somebody else's dog. But mainly putting my dog in that position where he might learn to be reactive to other dogs because he thinks they are going to charge up and attack him. Another reason why dog parks are a nono.


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## Enzos_Mom (Apr 8, 2010)

Greenwest said:


> I worry when I pass a big scary black guy that looks like he is packing heat and maybe a kilo.


Can't believe nobody else has touched on this one yet, but wow...really?? Racist, much??


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

Enzos_Mom said:


> Can't believe nobody else has touched on this one yet, but wow...really?? Racist, much??


I did report it to the mods.


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## Enzos_Mom (Apr 8, 2010)

jackie_hubert said:


> I did report it to the mods.


Same here...can't believe people still think that way. It's 2011...not 1911.


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## Greenwest (Oct 3, 2011)

thankyou mylissyk and BeauShel, your responses have really takin the edge off this evening for me. I contacted the police and they told me to call them if it ever happens again. (to busy catching speeders on the highway)

Il probably just avoid that area all together because the old man is there almost every day and I suspect multiple times a day, I am blessed with an area that is loaded with awesome places to hike and explore.


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## Greenwest (Oct 3, 2011)

roflrofl oh cmon racist? thats not racist at all. its not racist to profile somebody based on social tendencies. not at all. I was just using a colorfull example. lol cmon guys lighten up


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## Greenwest (Oct 3, 2011)

just like my Lu, who profiles big dogs based on their tendencies. or medium sized collies who like to play. or same sized labs who are rude. Iv noticed alot of labs at the park are like this for some reason. Really pushy


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## nixietink (Apr 3, 2008)

Enzos_Mom said:


> Can't believe nobody else has touched on this one yet, but wow...really?? Racist, much??


I found it disrespectful too, and reported it.

IMHO, I just don't understand why you came here looking for others to analyze your dog's behavior, then get defensive when people are honest. No reason to get upset or say offensive things.


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## Greenwest (Oct 3, 2011)

just like anybody who saw me would profile me as a shy white boy stoner hippie.

id imagine a black guy packing heat and a kilo, would think it was a complement if you profiled him as such.


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## Greenwest (Oct 3, 2011)

im not upset at all, nor have been. at anybody except the old man.


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## Greenwest (Oct 3, 2011)

as a matter of fact I am very satisfied with what I have gottn from this post


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

To me a dog lying down is a calming signal, coming from a dog who is anxious about meeting other dogs. Retrievers on a whole, especially young ones tend to not get why anything in the world wouldnt want to play. They are just not getting the point that she wants to be left alone and she's serious about it. 

I would want to know why she's anxious. I would not bring her to a dog park where you're going to have all sort of dogs.


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## Greenwest (Oct 3, 2011)

didnt mean to be rude, just trying to get points across.


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## Greenwest (Oct 3, 2011)

I will consider finding a dog behaviorist to give an opinion on her. It would be interesting


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

Make sure to look for someone with at least an MA in animal behavior. There is no restriction on who can call themselves a behaviorist.

Best of luck!


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## SeaMonster (Jul 4, 2011)

How's ur dog with puppies


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## Greenwest (Oct 3, 2011)

Iv never had any problems with puppies, just recently we walked by a young german sheapard who i could tell really wanted to play. Lulu got a little low and walked by my side up to his nose. then went about her way.

though a while ago there was this puppy that came running at me, not my dog from aross the field because I did a little whistle at it. And lulu didnt like that very much because the puppy had not had contact with her before coming for me. so she knocked it on its side, and it gave a welp that puppies often do when scared. But the owner actually thanked my dog for giving her puppy a swift lesson. and ofcourse she did not bit the puppy, onlly nudged it on its side while it was clumsely running twoard me. after that I learned not to give special attention to other dogs, only special ones that lulu doesnt mind me petting because she is with the other owner getting loves.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I do agree with Enzo's mom that the racist stereotype is clear and not called for. 

Kicking someone else's dog or kicking any dog is an absolutely last resort for stone cold aggression, but way over the top for various dog behaviors that are not very dangerous. Kicking a strange dog is also a way to get bitten.

I agree very much that it is scary for someone to say he will shoot LuLu, and it ruins the walk even if the guy does not mean it.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Greenwest said:


> its not racist to profile somebody based on social tendencies.


That is actually the definition of racism: to make assumptions about somebody based on their race. 

Apologize, move on, and try to realize how incredibly backwards your comment was. Don't continue to defend it, because it really was insulting.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

In answer to your original question, it sounds like the guy was out of line. Even if Lulu's behavior is a bit out of line from his perspective, threatening to kill her is absolutely insane. Is there any group who runs the dog park? Perhaps you can give them a heads up about this guy?

Do your local laws allow for concealed carry in a place like a dog park? If not, it might be worth contacting the police department. Even if it's legal, it still may be worth it. Maybe this guy has threatened other people. If this is part of a pattern, he may already be on their radar.


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## Sterling Archer (Feb 8, 2011)

mylissyk said:


> There was a lot in her post, so maybe you missed it, *but her dog is not aggressive*, she ignores other dogs mostly, and warns away any that she doesn't like, she has not attacked or gotten into any fights with other dogs.


I did read her posts. I didn't miss anything. It sounds like you read into them what you wanted to. What I read (in the initial and follow-on posts) is a bunch of excuses for her dog lunging at other dogs (even if it was just one other dog).

If you want to be her forum friend and pat her on the back about her dogs behavior...have at it. I'll just maintain the realistic position of advising her that it's not bright to take your animal to a dog park if you can't keep it from making gestures that *could be interpreted* as being aggressive.



Greenwest said:


> I have a 5 year old golden named Lulu. just a super sweet girl, people that regular the parks always want to pet her. Her favorite thing is to dance up to new people and get some pets.
> 
> But when it comes to dogs she takes going to the park very seriously. I take her pretty much every day to a dogs of leash park and I always know how she will react before we get to the dog. *She bassicly does exactly what the dog code of honor tells her to do and will never stray froom those guidelines.* .... *then right when the dog would never expect her to do anything she lunges at it with a bark and thumps her nose into their body at someplace*. somtimes scaring the other dog a little, and always making lulu the dominant one.
> 
> But today i came across an old man with his black lab, we pass eachother alot and his dog would always come running at lulu like he owns the whole park wanting to get her to play. *And everytime he does this, lulu does one lunge at it and the dog always backs off and lulu continues on with me. *One time the old mans black lab laid on the ground in passive and lulu didnt charge at all. just walked up with shoulders high, and kept moving.


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## Summer's Mom (Oct 20, 2010)

I wouldnt be happy or proud of my dog if she behaved the way yours does, lunging at dogs and "putting them in their place". It is not polite behaviour and the crouching is not really "normal" either...

I think you should stop her from practicing the lunging behaviour at all. It is rude and I don't really see anything wrong with friendly dogs..


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## Summer's Mom (Oct 20, 2010)

Btw, I don't think laying down when being approached is "balanced" or "natural order" dog behaviour.. just IMO..


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Sterling Archer said:


> I did read her posts. I didn't miss anything. It sounds like you read into them what you wanted to. What I read (in the initial and follow-on posts) is a bunch of excuses for her dog lunging at other dogs (even if it was just one other dog).
> 
> If you want to be her forum friend and pat her on the back about her dogs behavior...have at it. I'll just maintain the realistic position of advising her that it's not bright to take your animal to a dog park if you can't keep it from making gestures that *could be interpreted* as being aggressive.


You're response is incredibly rude and turning this into a personal attack on me is uncalled for. 

I'm not patting anyone the back or excusing any dogs behavior. A dog running up to and charging into another dogs face is bad behavior, why is wrong for the dog being charged AT to protest?


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## Sterling Archer (Feb 8, 2011)

mylissyk said:


> *You're response is incredibly rude and turning this into a personal attack on me is uncalled for. *
> 
> I'm not patting anyone the back or excusing any dogs behavior. A dog running up to and charging into another dogs face is bad behavior, why is wrong for the dog being charged AT to protest?


I'm at a loss as to how my comment could be interpreted as a "personal attack." We have a difference of opinion...don't bring the Drama Llama into this.


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## mist (Jun 23, 2007)

closing this thread, I advice some member's to once again read the forum user agreement

Golden Retrievers : Golden Retriever Dog Forums - FAQ: Forum FAQ

especially 
7. GoldenRetrieverForum.com Members will refrain from assassinating the character of another. – In heated discussion there is a tendency to malign the character of an opponent. Care must be taken in the wording of all statements of denigration to not single out any individual. An example is instead of saying “You are a liar” (an unacceptable accusation) nearly the same sentiment can be expressed as, “I believe you are mistaken”. Though the foregoing appears to be almost identical in the stated sentiment there is one major difference, the former attacks another’s character of honesty whereas the latter refers to a possible error having been made… this is a BIG distinction in any argument. Also refer to the larger group rather than a single individual when trying to make statements of a derogatory nature. Example: “You are a reckless breeder for not obtaining health certifications before breeding” (this being an example of an unacceptable attack on someone’s character) rather instead use “I feel all breeders who breed their dogs without obtaining health certifications prior is being reckless”. Again, the difference in meaning might seem non-existent but the earlier statement directly attacks a specific individual’s character whereas the latter is an expression of attitude toward a whole class, yet in effect making it understood that “if the shoe fits…”


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