# Lab results negative; Now what?



## afauth (Sep 1, 2009)

I posted a thread a while back about my 6 month golden who had pooping issues. He is on 3 cups of Blue Buffalo LBP food/day. A lot of the treats we give him are also the more natural ones (Zuke's,etc). He will do a 1st poop and it is solid, then he either a) stays in the squat position and walks and goes a little more or b) just goes some more (without the walking) and the 2nd time more comes out and it is soft like soft serve ice cream (sorry for the visual . last time everyone here suggested getting a fecal test done, we did that and everything is normal. So.....my question is, could he be allergic to something in BB or is this maybe just normal for him? How do I even begin to know what he's allergic to? I've heard that maybe a grain-free like TOTW would be good as some can be allergic to grains. BB has brown rice, barely and oats. I hate to switch his food again bc we just got done with the transition to BB from Iams. he's been on BB about 6/7 weeks. First two ingreds of BB are deboned chicken and chicken meal. Any thoughts or suggestions are welcomed!! Thanks.


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## Oaklys Dad (Dec 28, 2005)

As you can read here many of us have tried several different dogs foods before we found the right one for our dogs. I personally tried several premium dog foods and always had loose stool problems. I am currently have the boys on Purina One with tablespoon of pumpkin mixed it. So far it is working well. Good luck to you.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

That sounds like alot of food and too much food can cause the soft stools. Cut back on the food and add some pumpkin to see if it helps.


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## hmsalazar (Feb 19, 2009)

Hey, i have the same problem with Lucky (10 months). He poop one time ok, and a little bit later also some ice cream (jaja), and this have been for several months. He is in proplan but did the same on Blue Buffalo, also the tests are Ok (no giardia test, did you?). Pumpink only help for a couple of days. He was eating 6 cups and now only 4 1/2 cups and also didnt fix it. Maybe an alergy to chicken? Blue dont have corn so its not that and i dont think is rice. He did get antibiotics for a skin pyoderma, so any soft tissue bacteria should be dead. I will start giving him the new formula Authority dry food from Petsmart, its also chicken but i'll tell you if it works. Please post any changes.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

A lot of vets will treat for giardia and/or coccidia even though the tests are negative. You'd be surprised how many times the tests are false negative for one or both of those things.
My vet would probably do a 10 day course of 1000 mg twice a day of metronidazole in this situation. It works for a surprising number of dogs.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

hotel4dogs said:


> A lot of vets will treat for giardia and/or coccidia even though the tests are negative. You'd be surprised how many times the tests are false negative for one or both of those things.
> My vet would probably do a 10 day course of 1000 mg twice a day of metronidazole in this situation. It works for a surprising number of dogs.


What she said


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## afauth (Sep 1, 2009)

Hmm. Ok, I guess I'm still a little confused at what to do. I didn't think I was feeding too much bc I'm doing LESS than the minimum amount required on the package. It says 3 1/2-4 1/2c for his size and age. I'm feeding 3 cups plus he gets treats or a kong when we are at work during the day. I can feel his ribs and hips but not see them. he's 6 months old and 53lbs, very long and tall. I put some pumpkin in his food this morning it usually helps for a day or two then I would need to more. I will call my vet and ask if they looked for giardia and coccidia (I don't even know what those are!ha) and see if they think trying an antibiotic would be beneficial. 

Thanks for all your help! I'll let you know what happens. He loves the BB so maybe the antibiotic may get out whatever is in there.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

even if they looked for giardia and coccidia, which they normally do, they often don't find them if they're there in low levels.
You could very sweetly ask your vet if there would be any harm in treating with a course of metronidazole and seeing what happens. Most vets will agree to it, in my experience.


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## hmsalazar (Feb 19, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> even if they looked for giardia and coccidia, which they normally do, they often don't find them if they're there in low levels.
> You could very sweetly ask your vet if there would be any harm in treating with a course of metronidazole and seeing what happens. Most vets will agree to it, in my experience.


what about fenbendazole instead metronidazole, do it works?


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I'm sorry, I don't know the answer to that. My vet uses metronidazole, and it's what I've seen boarded dogs come in with, too.



hmsalazar said:


> what about fenbendazole instead metronidazole, do it works?


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Metronidazole is sort of the standard treatment for giardia or suspected giardia. I believe fenbendazole is effective but is frequently a second choice. I think it's safer for pregnant females, though my memory may be shoddy on that.


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## Garfield (Apr 7, 2009)

I'm thinking your dog could possibly have a gluten intolerance (some grains in BB are notorious for dogs with that issue - please remind, did he have these problems on the Iams?). I'd first try what other folks here have suggested (be sure to also talk to your vet about a source of non-dairy probiotic supplement whenever antibiotics are used) and, if none of that solves the problem, try a food with only rice or potatoes as the sole carbs and see if that should improve the situation.


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## hmsalazar (Feb 19, 2009)

Any updates?


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## afauth (Sep 1, 2009)

I started using the pumpkin again and the poo was fine but now he's back to the walking squats. First part is hard, second part is soft. So I called my vet today to see if they tested for those two things mentioned above, they said yes. I said is there a chance maybe the levels were low and it didn't show up? they said no. I asked if we could possibly do an antibiotic just to see if it works.........waiting for the vet to call me back. He's on Blue Buffalo LB Puppy. Anything in particular that Goldens have allergies to? I don't know what to do. Any other food suggestions? My options for dog food shopping are Tractor Supply & PetSmart/PetCo. I've been told Golden puppies shouldn't be on a grain-free until 18 months old. HELP!

Here's the ingredient list: 

*







*

Deboned Chicken, Chicken Meal (natural source of Glucosamine), Whole Ground Brown Rice, Whole Ground Barley, Whole Potatoes, Tomato Pomace (natural source of Lycopene), Oatmeal, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Natural Tocopherols), Natural Chicken Flavor, Whole Carrots, Whole Sweet Potatoes, Blueberries, Cranberries, Flaxseed, Barley Grass, Dried Parsley, Alfalfa Meal, Kelp Meal, Taurine, L-Carnitine, L-Lysine, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Green Tea Extract, Turmeric, Garlic, Sunflower Oil (natural source of Omega 6 Fatty Acids), Herring Oil (natural source of Omega 3 Fatty Acids), Dried Chicory Root, Black Malted Barley, Oil of Rosemary, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin C, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Beta Carotene, Calcium Ascorbate (source of Vitamin C), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Niacin (Vitamin B3), Calcium Pantothenate (Vitamin B5), Riboflavin (Vitamin B2), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Folic Acid, Biotin, Choline Chloride, Dicalcium Phosphate, Zinc Amino Acid Complex (source of Chelated Zinc), Iron Amino Acid Complex (source of Chelated Iron), Copper Amino Acid Complex (source of Chelated Copper), Manganese Amino Acid Complex (source of Chelated Manganese), Potassium Amino Acid Complex (source of Chelated Potassium), Cobalt Proteinate (source of Chelated Cobalt), Potassium Chloride, Sodium Selenite, Salt, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Bacillus subtilis, Bifidobacterium thermophilum, Bifidobacterium longum, Enterococcus faecium.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

afauth said:


> So I called my vet today to see if they tested for those two things mentioned above, they said yes. I said is there a chance maybe the levels were low and it didn't show up? they said no.


If your vet said that he tested for giardia and there was no chance of a false negative, then your vet is totally out of sync with the established literature. I'd be very concerned that he wasn't careful and up-to-date.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Make sure you're getting your info from your VET not the receptionist answering the phone too !!!


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## afauth (Sep 1, 2009)

Garfield~ he didn't have these problems on Iams but he was going A LOT and it was softer than it is now on the BB. 

Penny~I did talk to the person answering the phone but he said the vet would call me back so hopefully I get to talk one-on-one with the vet. Maybe they'll do a re-test or maybe he'll just let me try the antibiotic. 

Someone (not on here) also suggested he may be constipated??? That doesn't seem right if he's able to get out quite a bit. Or to check for hemrroids. ??? I guess if the vet won't do a re-test or give antibiotics then all I can do is switch food and see if it clears up. I'm soooo confused! I feel bad watching him, I would think it's an uncomfortable feeling. ??????????????????


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## Tailer'sFolks (Feb 27, 2007)

Tailer had issues with soft poops off n on for the first 18 months! Milk Bone Biscuits, Lamb, and Fish just did him in! Stopping the treats at the bank and training tid-bits of lamb helped us out. Good Luck!


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## Garfield (Apr 7, 2009)

afauth said:


> Garfield~ he didn't have these problems on Iams but he was going A LOT and it was softer than it is now on the BB.
> 
> Penny~I did talk to the person answering the phone but he said the vet would call me back so hopefully I get to talk one-on-one with the vet. Maybe they'll do a re-test or maybe he'll just let me try the antibiotic.
> 
> Someone (not on here) also suggested he may be constipated??? That doesn't seem right if he's able to get out quite a bit. Or to check for hemrroids. ??? I guess if the vet won't do a re-test or give antibiotics then all I can do is switch food and see if it clears up. I'm soooo confused! I feel bad watching him, I would think it's an uncomfortable feeling. ??????????????????


You might first consider switching vets if they won't test/treat...my gut is this is some kind of intestinal parasite. If you do decide to switch food (which I'd advise against doing at the same time as antibiotics if that should pan out), at the risk of sounding like a Naturapet spokesman, their California Natural Chicken & Rice formulas (both puppy and adult) are as easy on the stomach as they come (and gluten free).


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I agree with everyone who is saying this....your vet should be much more in tune with how common it is for false negatives when testing for giardia/coccidia. Hopefully when you talk directly to the vet, you'll get more help.




Garfield said:


> You might first consider switching vets if they won't test/treat...my gut is this is some kind of intestinal parasite. If you do decide to switch food (which I'd advise against doing at the same time as antibiotics if that should pan out), at the risk of sounding like a Naturapet spokesman, their California Natural Chicken & Rice formulas (both puppy and adult) are as easy on the stomach as they come (and gluten free).


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## afauth (Sep 1, 2009)

I really like my vet, we haven't had any problems (so far) so hopefully whenever I get a call back from him we can get it sorted out. He was really concerned last time when Cooper ate a edible nylon bone WHOLE and had diarrhea and throwing up for 3 days. He kept calling me to make sure it was under control. I go home today at lunch to let Cooper out and I notice a _very _runny pile in my backyard. I'm not sure if he did that at lunch when I wasn't out there or this morning (its dark when we go out in the morning). But it was a pale color and _very_ runny. I'd prefer not to switch foods until I know what's going on. Haven't heard back from the vet yet today. I'll keep you posted on what I hear. thanks for all the suggestions.  It helps when you're new at this!


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## hmsalazar (Feb 19, 2009)

Well gluten cant be a problem couse BB dont have it, mine eats Pro Plan Chicken so maybe its a chicken problem, or maybe the watter supply? or a pancreatic problem? You need three samples for a more reliable giardia test (3 consecutive days). But i remember giardia couse loose stools some days and some days not, but our dogs make loose stools some minutes yes and some minutes not.


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## Garfield (Apr 7, 2009)

hmsalazar said:


> Well gluten cant be a problem couse BB dont have it


Blue Buffalo may not list gluten as an individual additive, but the food contains barley which contains a protein problematic to those with gluten intolerance as well as oats which can be cross contaminated with gluten (as can barley), so it can't be completely dismissed.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Gluten intolerance is much rarer in dogs than hypothyroidism (which looks like/causes allergies) or allergies to meat proteins.


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## LuckyPup (Sep 9, 2009)

Out of curiousity, what are the signs of hypothyroidism?


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## Garfield (Apr 7, 2009)

tippykayak said:


> Gluten intolerance is much rarer in dogs than hypothyroidism (which looks like/causes allergies) or allergies to meat proteins.


True, thusly it is also more overlooked/misdiagnosed. My main post point was to note that foods with certain grains (and not only gluten as a listed ingredient) can be problematic to dogs with celiac type disease which can wreak all sorts of havok (many mimicing those of allergies and hypothryoidism), and if testing for more those more common ailments comes up negative, the celiac angle shouldn't be completely removed as a possible cause or contributing factor to dogs experiencing unknown difficulties.


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## Garfield (Apr 7, 2009)

afauth said:


> I really like my vet, we haven't had any problems (so far) so hopefully whenever I get a call back from him we can get it sorted out.


Not necessarily suggesting that you change vets all together, but don't hesitate to get a second opinion should this vet come up empty on this one - there are other vets out there that may be able to offer a good bedside manner as well as a solution in this instance.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Garfield said:


> True, thusly it is also more overlooked/misdiagnosed. My main post point was to note that foods with certain grains (and not only gluten as a listed ingredient) can be problematic to dogs with celiac type disease which can wreak all sorts of havok (many mimicing those of allergies and hypothryoidism), and if testing for more those more common ailments comes up negative, the celiac angle shouldn't be completely removed as a possible cause or contributing factor to dogs experiencing unknown difficulties.


Sure. I would absolutely look at grain/gluten intolerance after ruling out more common things, like protein allergies, parasites, and hypothyroidism.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

LuckyPup said:


> Out of curiousity, what are the signs of hypothyroidism?


Lethargy
Skin lesions that look like allergies or hot spots
Skin infections (often secondary to those hot spots)
Recurring itchy spots
Recurring ear infections/gunkines
Dull coat
Hair loss
Weight gain (even on a reasonable number of calories)
Behavior abnormalities like aggression or sensitivity
Temperature regulation problems

Did I miss any?


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

tippykayak said:


> Lethargy
> Skin lesions that look like allergies or hot spots
> Skin infections (often secondary to those hot spots)
> Recurring itchy spots
> ...


These all showed up with my King BUT my Rowdster had different symptoms:

Severe allergies
Blackened skin/recurring staph infections resistant to healing
Nausea and inability to hold down food
His ears kind of flipped up at the bottoms
And most mystifying: He was absolutely HYPER and unable to settle down: I have since learned that this can happen with thyroid storming


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## LuckyPup (Sep 9, 2009)

Thanks Tippy. I was just curious. I always hear about it but never knew exactly what the symptoms were.


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## afauth (Sep 1, 2009)

Ok took a second sample in to the vet. Negative again for any parasites. He said before doing more extensive tests to rule out a food problem. He gave me a prescription probiotic and recommended a "low residue" diet to see if it's food related. He also stated that Cooper could just have a sensitive stomach and it could possibly be a protein allergy. So I started with the probiotic and metamucil in his water. His poops were both good today. They also noticed that his poop was kind of "dense" but said it was most likely from the stuffing he had in it from his toys.  whoops, we catch as much as we can, practically sitting next to him as he rips them apart! So if the probiotics work, I will get more. Thinking a food change might be in the future. thinking about skipping chicken & beef and maybe doing a potato & venison if we switch. Any thoughts?


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

I'm very surprised that the vet didn't just give you some Metronidazole. In reality, many cases of parasites are diagnosed because the dog suddenly gets better after starting Metro.


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## Jesse3 (Jun 6, 2009)

Don't know if this matters or not but, does your vet send the sample out to a lab? My dog had the exact same thing happening when he would go, I even hesitated on bringing him in because it didn't happen each time he went. His test at the vet came out negative, but the one sent to a lab came out positive. I'm not sure what the difference was between the test done at the vet and at the lab.


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## Ken (Sep 4, 2009)

afauth,

I fed my 5 month old golden, Jake, the same food for the first few months I had him, with the exact same results that you are having. After reading here about the food possibly being too rich for some dogs, I switched to California Natural Lamb and Rice for puppies. Since the switch, he has been solid most of the time, while still only moving his bowels twice a day. It has been a nice switch.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

If you like the food, maybe just keep him on the probiotic to help firm it up.


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## afauth (Sep 1, 2009)

Well so far this morning he is still doing the walking squats after having 2 of the probiotics. I know it's too soon to tell though. I had some canned low residue food from an incident earlier in his life (totally unrelated to this issue). I put some of that on his food this morning and we'll see how he does. My gut tells me it's food related because he didn't have these problems on the Iams, just when we started the BB. I'm definitely NOT going back to Iams but I've heard puppies should have up to 24% protein and the BB has 28%. If using probiotics, low residue soft food mixed in works then I will use this last bag up of BB and switch to a different protein source and probably adult food because by the time he finishes this up he'll be 8months. I've also heard they just grow out of this too. He's gaining weight, growing, still very active & happy. I'll see what the next couple days bring before doing anything more drastic. 

Ken---thanks for letting me know that about the food. My gut is it's the food since it started at the same time as the switch.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Sorry to keep pressing this, but I'd do a course of metronidazole regardless. If it's related to a low level infection/parasite/whatever, the metro will help. But it's also an anti-spasmodic (sp?) and will help quiet down whatever inflammation or irritation is going on with him.
Interesting comment about the toy stuffing, just that is enough to inflame his gut and cause the problems you are describing. The inflammation from that can last for several days (I know, I have a stuffing eater, too). 
I'm with Tippy, I'm still surprised the vet didn't give you some metronidazole just to help the symptoms for now.
As far as the potato and venison, my older boy did just fine on it for 2 years. Then we did potato and rabbit for a year, and now switching to potato and duck. He's got IBD diagnosed by biopsy, when he was 8-1/2.


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## afauth (Sep 1, 2009)

Ok I will check with my vet about the antibiotic if the probiotic & low residue don't show improvement in a couple days. I didn't know the metro was also an anti-spasmodic, that would make sense then. What's IBD? 

I looked at BB Lamb & Brown Rice, much lower protein 22% vs 28% (if that's the problem), that is an option for us too and I'd prefer it because I can easily get it at PetSmart a couple minutes away. Someone else here suggest California Natural and we can get it but I'm not sure where these places are that were listed on their website but I will figure it out if need be. Do Golden's need to be on a Large Breed adult food too or just when they're puppies?


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

IBD is a disease that's typically of autoimmune origin in which the body cannot tolerate certain specific proteins. The immune system gets confused and will attack its own mucous membranes in the digestive tract, typically causing diarrhea and/or vomiting (my dog had neither), sometimes a mildly elevated liver enzyme (my dog had that), unexplained weight loss, etc. (Inflammatory Bowel Disease, NOT to be confused with Irritable Bowel Disorder or Irritable Bowel Syndrome, IBS). It would be very uncommon, although not impossible, in a dog the age of yours. It's confirmed by intestinal biopsy in which they find massive infiltration of the stomach and/or intestine with various white cells. 
It's typically treated with dietary modification, steroids (because of the autoimmune component) and metronidazole. 
We treat my boy's with diet only, since he has never had any gastrointestinal symptoms (which is also very unusual). When his liver enzyme goes back up, we know his body is reacting to the novel protein and it's time to change again.
The amount of protein in the food is less likely to be a problem as is the type of protein. That is, if your dog has a problem with chicken but not with beef, 22% protein that's chicken based will cause much more problems than 35% protein that's beef based.




afauth said:


> Ok I will check with my vet about the antibiotic if the probiotic & low residue don't show improvement in a couple days. I didn't know the metro was also an anti-spasmodic, that would make sense then. What's IBD?
> 
> I looked at BB Lamb & Brown Rice, much lower protein 22% vs 28% (if that's the problem), that is an option for us too and I'd prefer it because I can easily get it at PetSmart a couple minutes away. Someone else here suggest California Natural and we can get it but I'm not sure where these places are that were listed on their website but I will figure it out if need be. Do Golden's need to be on a Large Breed adult food too or just when they're puppies?


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## afauth (Sep 1, 2009)

Wow! Thanks for the info. That's why I was thinking of switching from the chicken to lamb or venison. I've seen a couple things on here in regards to chicken being a problem. I just bought a brand new bag of the chicken and rice too dangit. So can I go to a Lamb & Brown Rice Adult without it being large breed or do I need to continue on large breed with adult food?


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

I never had good results feeding the top end foods that are much to rich imo for young puppies, it also concerns me when I read about people changing foods like they change their socks, pick a food and stick to it, how can there be any success when foods are changed so frequently? as stated overfeeding can cause loose stools, perhaps stick with the food your breeder recommended? at least for the 1st 6 mos, until they are ready for adult food....we really base this on a success rate, and not just because we walked into the store one day and said..."oh that one has a pretty bag, I'll recommend this one this week" ...as I am sure you can tell, this is one of my Pet Peeves" 

Good luck to you and your puppy


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## Goldenmomma (Oct 15, 2009)

*Slow learner*

:doh: Sully has a soft stool on and off for over a year, but nothing ever shows up in the vet's tests. I think sometimes they have bought new cars because of my office visits. Scotty is starting Amoxicillin, Metronidaxole, and Proviable-DC because of his diarrhea today. My vet checks for coc. because he had it last fall when he was less than eight weeks (breeder denied it). I am going to try Nutro Sensitive Stomach :crossfing once he can get off of the boiled turkey and rice. My vet doesn't want him to have any treats or Kong stuff because it may be contributing to his soft stool. He loves carrots for treats and I'm going to shape and bake the canned variety for treats. Has any one had an experience with Nutro Sensitive Stomach?


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

I had very similar problems with Flora. After a LONG battle with loose poops and nasty diarrhea, and a couple of trips to the vet for fecal exams and whatever else, my vet finally suggested taking her off of her present food (Blue Buffalo chicken and rice puppy food) and switching her over to an adult food with a different source of protein.

I put her on a less "quality" adult food (Purina ProPlan Sensitive Formula) and her poops have been great ever since. Not a single problem with diarrhea, even after a rich marrow bone.

Good luck!


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## afauth (Sep 1, 2009)

Arcane~ I understand you're protective of the breed. I'm not changing his food like I change my socks BUT after doing weeks of research and enrolling in obedience our eyes were opened to how bad the "walmart" brands are. We are trying to do what's best for our dog and unfortunately its going to take some trial and error. He's been on BB for 2 months now and has had this problem the entire time on it. I prefer to not make him suffer. He is almost 7 months old and after this bag I will switch him to adult food most likely of the same brand but with a different protein. The bags of BB food aren't that pretty  so that's not why we decided on that food. Our breeder wasn't feeding a quality food. I would rather figure out an issue at 6 months old than to have him suffer for years or eat a low quality food and have ailments. If you eat McDonalds every day do you think that's ok just because you can't "see" any outward effects?


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## hmsalazar (Feb 19, 2009)

afauth said:


> Arcane~ I understand you're protective of the breed. I'm not changing his food like I change my socks BUT after doing weeks of research and enrolling in obedience our eyes were opened to how bad the "walmart" brands are. We are trying to do what's best for our dog and unfortunately its going to take some trial and error. He's been on BB for 2 months now and has had this problem the entire time on it. I prefer to not make him suffer. He is almost 7 months old and after this bag I will switch him to adult food most likely of the same brand but with a different protein. The bags of BB food aren't that pretty  so that's not why we decided on that food. Our breeder wasn't feeding a quality food. I would rather figure out an issue at 6 months old than to have him suffer for years or eat a low quality food and have ailments. If you eat McDonalds every day do you think that's ok just because you can't "see" any outward effects?


Remember you can return the food bag to pet smart, we returned half a bag and got full refund. i still dont know why our dogs poop good stools and some minutes or even seconds after that they poop lose stools. I think you are doing the right thing. Dont take arcana comments personal, she is a breeder so her comments are because her frustration with more experience dog owners, i'm sure they would love to help us first time puppy parents. And yes "McDonalds es del Diablo"


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## afauth (Sep 1, 2009)

Thanks hmsalazar! I threw the stupid bag away thinking it would be a quick fix with the antibiotic. I was told you have to have the original packaging to return it. Stupid me, I should've waited and listened to my gut. Always gets you in trouble when you don't listen to your gut! Hopefully the probiotic starts working!


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## afauth (Sep 1, 2009)

Vet is letting me try a round of the Metro-whatever. I also went to Nature Dog here in Omaha yesterday and got a probiotic (cheaper than the vets and non-dairy, vets had dairy in it). His morning poo today was hard so that's good. Hopefully it stays that way.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

afauth said:


> so that's not why we decided on that food. Our breeder wasn't feeding a quality food. I would rather figure out an issue at 6 months old than to have him suffer for years or eat a low quality food and have ailments. If you eat McDonalds every day do you think that's ok just because you can't "see" any outward effects?


I sometimes think people take dog food too seriously. Carmella ate Iams until she was 8 years old, when we switched her over to Solid Gold per her groomer's suggestion. I know tons of people think Iams is "evil" and garbage food, but my Carmella lived to be almost 15 years old with very few health problems.

She never "suffered" because she was eating what many people consider a low quality food. She was a happy, healthy dog. Just find what works for your dog rather than being so adamant about finding a high quality food. If it's something "high quality" like Fromm or Orijin, then awesome. If it's something "low quality" like Iams or Purina One, then... who cares?! The diarrhea is over. :


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## afauth (Sep 1, 2009)

Thanks! Anyone know how many calories a dog should have per day? 7 months old, moderately active (doesn't go for walks every day). I know being young his metabolism is high. How do you figure out when to feed more or less? Just keep doing the rib test? Back off if you notice they're getting porky?


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

afauth said:


> Thanks! Anyone know how many calories a dog should have per day? 7 months old, moderately active (doesn't go for walks every day). I know being young his metabolism is high. How do you figure out when to feed more or less? Just keep doing the rib test? Back off if you notice they're getting porky?


Jax is getting around 1400 calories a day, but he's a nutjob hiking dog who's 10 months old. Comet thrived on around 1000 at the same age, same food, and same amount of exercise. Jax is just more intense about running around and more wired all the time.

So I say check the ribs every day and always make changes very slowly.

For the record, the dogs eat Eukanuba foods.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

In the old days, my past goldens ate Purina their entire lives and lived to be 14, 12 and 12. The one who had health issues were genetic.

My current goldens were on Nutro for years as that is what the breeder fed. Then the big Nutro health scare and I switched to Nature's Variety which is a great food and originates right here in Lincoln. When food prices soared I switched to a less expensive but still healthy food and my poor boys suffered the consequences.
It contained sweet potatoes which was the major difference so apparently my boy had an extreme allergy to it. He lost his hair and 15 pounds. I switched back to NV and he is now in wonderful shape. All this is to point out that changing foods can cause major problems fast! I would make sure all other areas are covered (the antibiotic finished) before changing foods.

Good Luck to your sweet boy. Glad your vet agreed to the antibiotic and hope it works. Poor baby.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

energy requirements for adult dogs (7 months needs more, but not that much more since the major growth is over by 7 months). Add more for extremely active dogs.

body weight----- at rest calories per day---- moderately active
50 pounds---------- 725 -------------------1000-1200
60 pounds---------- 835 -------------------1200-1500
70 pounds -----------940------------------- 1400-1750
80 pounds ----------1035 -------------------1600-2000

Moderately active does not mean going for a couple of daily walks. It means at least 1/2 hour of hard play per day.


sources: Purina, Royal Canin tech letters

as far as checking the ribs, be sure you're checking in the right place. You need to check about 1-1/2 inches off the spinal bone, NOT on the dog's sides.


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## afauth (Sep 1, 2009)

Thanks for all the info Hotel & Debles. No food changes will be made until we switch to adult which is when this bag is done and he'll be almost 8 months. So the antibiotic will be done. I'm noticing what people were saying in earlier posts about feeding too much. I'm feeding 1/2c less than the minimum on the bag but I wasn't taking into consideration the calories. He was getting 1500 calories plus a lot of treats, I've since cut back on the treats/stuffed kongs. I just now checked his ribs off the spine and I can feel them easily. I will keep up on checking his ribs.


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## hmsalazar (Feb 19, 2009)

any updates?


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## afauth (Sep 1, 2009)

Yes updates......He is still doing the walking squats but his poo is firmer. The antibiotic is finished so I cut his food back to 2 1/2 cups to see if overfeeding is the issue (trying to rule out simple stuff before changing food). I just did the lesser food a few days ago so I haven't seen any "better" results as of yet but I will give it a few more days. I'll update again in a few days. Although now today he ate a pair of my undies so we'll most likely have some issues with that. I posted a thread about it on another section in here. This pup keeps us on our toes.


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## afauth (Sep 1, 2009)

I should say his poo is firmer at the beginning than previous but still have the issue of it being softer at the end when he's doing the walking squats.


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