# Natural Balance Feeding Recs



## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

Cosmo is now 11 months old and just recently started NB Lamb and Rice because of long-standing GI issues. The bag says that adults need about 3.5-4.5 cups of food a day (make sense given the guaranteed analysis). It says puppies require up to double that. I would estimate that since he is no longer growing taller he would need about 5-6 cups if I go by the bag.

I used the Canine Calorie Counter (Canadian Golden Retrievers - Canine Calorie Counter) and it indicates that for his age I should feed about 3 cups of this particular food (that would equal about 2000 calories). That would definitely make him loose weight I think.

If it wasn't for his GI issues I would just use trial and error to figure out how much is good but he has difficulty gaining weight. Anyone here have a young dog on this food and can tell me how much I should expect to be feeding in order for him to gain a few pounds for his upcoming neuter (vet wants him to have some extra pounds)? I know they're all individual but just a rough estimate? 

FYI, he is 65lbs at present at 24 inches tall. Exercise is moderate. Body score is fine, thin but definitely no ribs. Our regular vet thinks he's fine. 

We've been doing 3.5-4 cups a day but no weight gain. Just TONNES of poop...mostly pretty solid but getting softer the more we feed. I gave him 4.5 cups today. I predict his poop is going to be a bit soft.

We've also started mixing in 1/4 cup EVO Red Meat a day to up the calorie count. Before that he was on Acana Lamb and Apple at 2.5 cups a day and was holding steady at 65lbs.


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## Summer's Mom (Oct 20, 2010)

Just thought I'd throw out an idea - dont have the answer to your question!!

Big poops indicates hes not really digesting --> he may not be getting the calories it says on the bag! Most of it is probably buried in your garden or trash.. Summer gains much easier on chicken and rice, I'm guessing she gets more out of it. For balance we give her about 3/4 cup kibble (1/4 per meal) along with her daily servings of home-cooked.

I plan to give one last shot at a highly digestible food - Canine Caviar. Will let you know how it goes!


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Really? 3 cups equals 2,000 cals? That would mean it has 666 cals/cup.... one of the highest cal counts I've heard of. I would determine how many cals he's getting now and then equal it with the new food. However, I would double and triple check the calorie counts of this food. Most of the food we feed range for high 300s to low 400s cals/cup.


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

Summer's Mom said:


> Just thought I'd throw out an idea - dont have the answer to your question!!
> 
> Big poops indicates hes not really digesting --> he may not be getting the calories it says on the bag! Most of it is probably buried in your garden or trash.. Summer gains much easier on chicken and rice, I'm guessing she gets more out of it. For balance we give her about 3/4 cup kibble (1/4 per meal) along with her daily servings of home-cooked.
> 
> I plan to give one last shot at a highly digestible food - Canine Caviar. Will let you know how it goes!


Yes, he has never digested his food well but test after test can't determine why. He had much smaller poop on orijen but his poop was much softer.

He does not do well on poultry (major diarrhea). We mixed rice into his kibble for 4 months but it doesn't make it any more solid or help him gain...


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> Really? 3 cups equals 2,000 cals? That would mean it has 666 cals/cup.... one of the highest cal counts I've heard of. I would determine how many cals he's getting now and then equal it with the new food. However, I would double and triple check the calorie counts of this food. Most of the food we feed range for high 300s to low 400s cals/cup.


Sorry, should have been more clear: according to the calorie counter it has that many, according to the bad it's pretty low.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Caloric intake also depends on the dog. I have to use the 10/1 for my Tucker. He consumes 10 calories for every pound I want him to weigh. We got almost 20 pounds off him and he's kept it off for 7 years. Shadow used to consume way more calories than this and wouldn't do well on it. 

I was given this formula by a professional and I've seen a few other members, including someone that is a Vet, use the same calculations. IMHO, it's a place to start. If a dog loses weight too quickly, I'd increase the calories. 

If Tucker ate 2000 calories per day, he would be a blimp!:uhoh:: He gets about 720 calories per day and weighs 71 pounds, which is perfect for him.

Best wishes!


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

PS...Always follow your Vet's advise...


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

My experience with Natural Balance, the dogs gained weight easily on 3 cups a day. We cut to 2.5 and they quit gaining and maintained their weight. The bag always says to feed more than they need, it makes you buy more, more often!


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

Thank you, this is all very helpful.

He seems to have handled the 4.5 cups yesterday well. We'll continue with that and assume that in that quantity he should def be gaining.


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## Finn's Fan (Dec 22, 2007)

Finn eats Natural Balance. He weighs 63.8 lbs, is 24.5" tall and I feed him two heaping cups per day. He goes on walks totalling around 5 miles a day and plays off leash often. I purposely keep him lean because of spinal surgery and a rotated pelvis, but when I bump his quantity of food a bit, he gains weight.


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## Summer's Mom (Oct 20, 2010)

How's Cosmo doing? Any weight gain?


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

Thanks for asking. I was going to post yesterday because his poop was heading south...but today it's pretty solid again. It's not even consistently bad! Argh! 

We're now feeding 3/4 cup Evo Red and 3 cups NB spread out over 3 meals. We're supplementing still with probiotics and pumpkin and have recently started giving him 2 capsules of B complex vitamin. *Does anyone know if there is a different fiber supplement we can give that is more potent than pumpkin.*

From my observation it seems when he is eating a low protein/grain based food like NB he has more solid poop but there's a lot of it and he has trouble gaining weight. When he's eating a high protein/grain free food he has less solid poop and there's less of it and he gains weight easier. I'm hoping we can meet in the middle and continue to feed half and half?? CRAZY!

We recently submitted a fecal exam to test for *blastocysistis*, a microscopic parasite that I was recently diagnosed with (it does nothing much to humans, they don`t even treat it unless you are in pain). I probably got it from Cosmo or from work at the shelter (humans usually get it from animals). *Anyone here heard of this parasite*. It could potentially be contributing to his GI issues - regular fecal tests don`t test for it so we may have overlooked it all this time. I may post a new thread asking if anyone has seen this in their dog and what the symptoms were if any - apparently a lot of dogs carry the parasite.

Oh, and he gained a pound over the last week! (at least that`s what our rudementary method of holding him while on our bathroom scale tells us).


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## rhondas (Sep 10, 2010)

To add fiber you can just add cooked string beans. If you want to use a supplement, you can use Metamucill. My personal opinion.... I'd start with the string beans. Not sure which probiotic you have? Is it Fortiflora? If so, you can increase that by 50% and it should help also.


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

rhondas said:


> To add fiber you can just add cooked string beans. If you want to use a supplement, you can use Metamucill. My personal opinion.... I'd start with the string beans. Not sure which probiotic you have? Is it Fortiflora? If so, you can increase that by 50% and it should help also.


We use Dogzymes. As per the instruction on the bottle, we`ve increased his probiotics already. Fortiflora all the time is simply too expensive. 

We`ll try the cooked string beans. We think he`s got an issue with peas in food but that`s not for certain. If that makes not difference or if it makes it worse we`ll try metamucil - what is the dosage. Also, don`t they not make a fiber supplement specifically for dogs.


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## rhondas (Sep 10, 2010)

I hear you about Fortiflora being expensive. I use it as a regular supplement but I have gotten it on-line for $19US a box vs $40US at the vet. I believe Metamucil is given by weight and it's the same for dogs as humans. That is what my Vet told me so you might want to check with them also. But I think the string bean route will work. I should have also mentioned that Brown Rice is also good.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Pumpkin can also loosen stools depending on the amount given. I'd try discontinuing that and see how he does.


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> Pumpkin can also loosen stools depending on the amount given. I'd try discontinuing that and see how he does.


Oh really? It is because it's too much fiber? Or is it something else in pumpkin that can do that?


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

So I think cosmo has gained another lbs or 2, he's at 67lbs now, yea! 

I took some photos, what do you think. Remember he is only 11 months.
Mobile Photobucket

Btw, poop is getting even softer...


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## Summer's Mom (Oct 20, 2010)

The new banner picture is really really handsome!  

Summer eats oat bran with her breakfast.. But I can't tell if it really helps cos her poop is usually good on home cooked.. I like that it is protein and fibre..

Keep going Cosmo! Summer gained some to hit 48lbs, all time high. She looks more "normal" now but my brain tells me fat! Too uses to the skinny bony dog..


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Could it be that EVO is just too rich for his system? I know several people who have found this to be true. Perhaps a more moderate grain free could suffice? Acana, Canidae grain free, TOTW? At 67 lbs, he is well within a normal weight for an adult golden. Remember most people are used to seeing dogs that are overweight. Ribs should be easily felt near the spine. Keeping them thin is very important for longevity and health.


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## Jean_NJ (Dec 15, 2010)

I've been told by my pet food guy, that many dog foods overstate the quantity to feed on the bag


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

I actually never had concerns about his weight and neither did our regular vet although I always was concerned with the fact that he couldn't gain weight easily. Our breeder voiced concern with his weight based on photos and the vet who postponed his neuter until he gained some weight.

I think the EVO is very rich indeed. He started on Iams at the breeders. He wouldn't eat when he first got to our place at 7.5 weeks so in an effort to get him on a more enticing food we switched him to Orijen 6 Fish (grain-free, with potatoes). For the first month things were fine other than moderately soft poop, but gaining weight and healthy (though gassy). At around 5 months we tried the Chicken and Turkey Orijen (grain free, with potatoes), after which everything fell apart (poultry issues we think). Switching back to Fish didn't help. Then at about 7 months we switched to Acana Lamb and Apple (oats as grain) mixed with rice on which he had moderately soft poop but no real weight gain. Then a couple of months ago we switched to NB Lamb and Brown Rice: pretty solid poop most days but tonnes of it and no weight gain. Then we added a bit of EVO Red and poop is pretty soft most days but weight gain. Argh! I do not think food is the issue...

On top of all of this he had some bacterial growth here and there in his intestine for which he got antibiotics 3 or 4 times so far - antibiotics never made much difference. Results for further tests are still out.

Test for pancreaitis came back low but normal low. Vet does not think that pancreaitis is likely but will continue to monitor.

Our regular vet says he sees this all the time in Retriever puppies and that most grow out of it. I hope he is right.


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

Test results for more parasites are in - all negative. Argh...so we still don't know why his GI tract has such issues.

BUT, his poop has been very solid today and there have not been huge piles of it. I think he's finally absorbing the food. We're doing 4.5 cups of just Natural Balance a day, 3 meals a day. With probiotics and fibre supplement or pumpkin. And, AND....he didn't have diarrhea while he did tracking today which he normally always does. Yay!

I think this might finally be working for him, but I don't want to celebrate too early...


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## Summer's Mom (Oct 20, 2010)

Hooray!! That sounds great, so let's just hope it gets mysteriously sorted out as mysteriously as it came about..

Summer's been on Canine Caviar a few days, no digestive supplements, so far so good! You can try that next if all else fails  let's hope not..


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## Andythom (Jun 20, 2009)

I feed 3.5 cups daily with NB bison or vension (whichever is cheaper). 1.5C in the morning, 2C in the evening. He seems to maintain weight pretty well with this schedule--weighs around 70-75lbs and is an average size male.


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## cprcheetah (Apr 26, 2009)

When Shellie was on NB she ate 2 cups per day plus a couple tablespoons of canned and then a few treats. I hope it continues to help Cosmo. Shellie had issues with her poops, it was not fun.


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

Solid poop didn't hold, has soft poop off and on again, no change in food.

Vet has no idea. I am thinking that if it's not food or parasites it could be psychological. Every time food goes into his tummy or he is exercising he seems to feel the need to poop. 

The plan right now is to let him digest his meals for at least 6 hrs before taking him outside. I will feed him only after his walks. His poop in the morning is really solid.

I took him out for a walk this morning without feeding him first and planned not to let him go at all but he decided to poop as we were walking, really soft poop...
Maybe pushing food through and out the other end while walking is justnormal for him? Ugh!


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Summer's Mom said:


> Hooray!! That sounds great, so let's just hope it gets mysteriously sorted out as mysteriously as it came about..
> 
> Summer's been on Canine Caviar a few days, no digestive supplements, so far so good! You can try that next if all else fails  let's hope not..


 
My crew loves Canine Caviar. Just remember it is very high calorie. The chicken is 599 cals/cup if I remember right. 

Also, overfeeding can lead to loose stools just as an fyi. And, walking can stimulate the need to defecate.... never fails with Cody.


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> My crew loves Canine Caviar. Just remember it is very high calorie. The chicken is 599 cals/cup if I remember right.
> 
> Also, overfeeding can lead to loose stools just as an fyi. And, walking can stimulate the need to defecate.... never fails with Cody.


High calorie is good because I'd like to feed less. 

Is the poop on your walks ever considerably softer?


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

jackie_hubert said:


> High calorie is good because I'd like to feed less.
> 
> Is the poop on your walks ever considerably softer?


 
Luckily, no.


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