# Becoming a better handler



## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

I’m the only thing holding my dog back. He’s far better than I am. It seems I don’t whistle well enough, hit the whistle soon enough, know how to consistently line up my dog for marks, or get my casts right. Heck I wonder some days what my dog thinks after training, you know? Does he wonder if I’ll ever get it? 

Anyone have suggestions on how I can get better? The dog is fine.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

1. The camera is your friend. Set it to video and put i on a tripod. Then you can review your performance later. 

2. Practice casting in front of a mirror. (A lot) You need to be certain that you're actually giving the cast you think you are.

3. Practice blowing the whistle to get crisp clean notes out of it. 

4. run as many dogs as you can, as often as you can. Borrow a neighbors pups and run them. Even if all they can do is a single, you still gain experience handling the dog.
Practice practice practice.


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

I feel you, Stacey. Proof is an amazing blind runner. I've personally never seen a dog run so hard on a blind and run like that straight for 200 yards plus on a consistent basis. He's smart, and visually gets most concepts like key holes and will look out and run to them or run tight to a gunner when he sees one. Its amazing! BUT it has become a problem for me as we've gone to more technical blinds just as I got better at young dog blinds. I'm too slow on the whistles for Proof's speed. By the time I process what's he's about to do he's already doing it. For example falling out of sight. This is our biggest problem I think. By the time I blow my whistle he's already in the danger zone. I have to try to blow it double time of a normal dog and its frustrating to me and to Proof. He would much rather run them with someone else. Sometimes I finish in tears of frustration. Now I'm trying everything to help it click. Right now I'm drawing the blind out before I run it to see if that helps and try to figure out where I should blow the whistle before I go run it. And my lack of depth perception, throw that out the window! Water blinds are a bit better as he swims slower so I can use the binoculars. ugh! Stacey, I don't know what to say but just keep training. That's all I try to do and I have gotten better in some stuff. Like you said, lining up for marks has become way more mechanical now. Only on occasion of a really really tough gun to line up for, its becoming just more instinctual now. Even lining up for blinds has improved immensely. So hopefully the other stuff, especially the whistle blinds, will start to click as well. We will get it someday! We just have to keep trying! Thank goodness we have nice dogs to help us get better, unfortunately for them, they are held back. But I'm sure they don't know that!


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

MoP

From my mentor and I still hear him now: "Blow the whistle now she's so d__n fast!":grin2:


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

I think watching really good and experienced handlers is very valuable. You can see what the other dogs are doing and how the handlers react. If I am slow to whistle, it’s because I’m unsure of what to do, which could get me in trouble quickly, because like you guys I have a very fast dog as well.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

The voice from behind me "WHISTLE! YOU'RE KILLING ME!!!" 
But I do hear it less than I use to.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Vhuynh2 said:


> I think watching really good and experienced handlers is very valuable. You can see what the other dogs are doing and how the handlers react. If I am slow to whistle, it’s because I’m unsure of what to do, which could get me in trouble quickly, because like you guys I have a very fast dog as well.


The last couple of field trials I worked at I was hanging birds at the line just so that I could watch the handlers. I also got friendly with a couple of judges and they discussed running the blinds with me. I very much appreciated the discussion.


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## Edward Lee Nelson (Jan 2, 2017)

MillionsofPeaches, I had the same issue with Proofs Grandfather, He was so fast! I would say dead bird and he was gone. Of all 4 series in a trial I hated the land blind the most. What helped me the most was that I slowed down to a crawl, I did alot of double whistles on blinds in training to get him to focus on me and I waited 5 seconds or more before casting the next cast. Over time this slowed him down and helped my anticipation of his next move, he also focused on me better and we read each other better and he learned it wasnt all about him. I don't know if it helps any but thought I would share. Good luck with Proof and the others.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Edward Lee Nelson said:


> MillionsofPeaches, I had the same issue with Proofs Grandfather, He was so fast! I would say dead bird and he was gone. Of all 4 series in a trial I hated the land blind the most. What helped me the most was that I slowed down to a crawl, I did alot of double whistles on blinds in training to get him to focus on me and I waited 5 seconds or more before casting the next cast. Over time this slowed him down and helped my anticipation of his next move, he also focused on me better and we read each other better and he learned it wasnt all about him. I don't know if it helps any but thought I would share. Good luck with Proof and the others.


I was double and triple whistling on Saturday and got yelled at. “Every whistle is counted by the judge”. I thought I should hit the whistle and collar as often as necessary if Riot looked away. It just seemed the natural thing to do. I was trying really hard to make sure I had his full attention before sending. He’s very impatient and wants to auto cast. He also looks around trying to see the bumper or marker if there is one. He is also very fast, and with short blinds it’s harder to control him because it’s so short. I agree with you, in training his the whistle and the collar as often as necessary to keep the connection to your dog. I’m a newbie and my dog takes full advantage of that!


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

Alaska7133 said:


> I was double and triple whistling on Saturday and got yelled at. “Every whistle is counted by the judge”.


That's an interesting comment. Generally, whistles are not counted by field trial judges, but I don't know about HT judges. (Certainly, whistle refusals are counted, as well as cast refusals, the latter of which are tangentially related to the number of whistles blown.)



Alaska7133 said:


> I was trying really hard to make sure I had his full attention before sending. He’s very impatient and wants to auto cast. He also looks around trying to see the bumper or marker if there is one. He is also very fast, and with short blinds it’s harder to control him because it’s so short.


With a fast dog, slow down (and with a slow dog, speed up) on pretty much everything, even when headed to the holding blind and to the line, but especially when casting. I know it's tempting to cast quickly when they tend to be impatient and auto-cast, but you must slow down in order to slow him down. I've had a dog that would auto-cast (it started the week before we were headed out to run a National ... ugh!), so I took the advice of the pros and slowed myself down, it helped. 

FTGoldens


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

FT posted:

"That's an interesting comment. Generally, whistles are not counted by field trial judges, but I don't know about HT judges. (Certainly, whistle refusals are counted, as well as cast refusals, the latter of which are tangentially related to the number of whistles blown.)"

Interesting comment FT. That is exactly what the judges told me while I was hanging birds for them. Very happy that they told me to sit with them and listen in. Have I heard otherwise? Yes. Maybe it was from hunt testers.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

What swampcollie said. Camera and practice in the mirror. A very nice gentleman I train with has gotten me into the mode of counting to three before each cast. He also told me to never drop that whistle from my mouth - always ready with it no matter how well I think they do - better to be prepared than lose an important second to reach for it. Belle is the queen of auto-cast [wonder where she got that from!  ]. Whistle nick whistle have been my favorite friends. Depth perception has been my enemy. Belle is so tiny she is so easy to lose sight of especially on undulated hills. The current dead grass does not help either; I was told this weekend that black can be seen better in all weather conditions. May just have to spray paint her black and attach a little flag to her collar so I can see her better.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

FTGoldens said:


> That's an interesting comment. Generally, whistles are not counted by field trial judges, *but I don't know about HT judges*. (Certainly, whistle refusals are counted, as well as cast refusals, the latter of which are tangentially related to the number of whistles blown.)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I personally know of a dog that was dropped in a master test because of the double whistles. It poured rain before and during the test - sandy terrain with puddles of standing water. The dog stopped on the whistle but would not sit in the puddle. Handler blew the whistle twice to make the dog sit. If the handler would have just cast with the dog semi-sitting or standing the dog would have passed. I actually did that with both Belle and Rose the next day in Senior. If they sat, fine, if not I just cast while semi-sitting. Was more worried of breaking on the walkup and honor.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Judges don't count whistles (with the exception of a walk up in a Hunt Test), they count *refusals*. 

So if you blow the whistle or give a cast, the judge is looking for a response from the dog to the command given. Too many cast or whistle refusals and you're going home early.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Swampcollie said:


> Judges don't count whistles (with the exception of a walk up in a Hunt Test), they count *refusals*.
> 
> So if you blow the whistle or give a cast, the judge is looking for a response from the dog to the command given. Too many cast or whistle refusals and you're going home early.


And that's really what the hunt test pro was talking about. Was exactly that.


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

Edward Lee Nelson said:


> MillionsofPeaches, I had the same issue with Proofs Grandfather, He was so fast! I would say dead bird and he was gone. Of all 4 series in a trial I hated the land blind the most. What helped me the most was that I slowed down to a crawl, I did alot of double whistles on blinds in training to get him to focus on me and I waited 5 seconds or more before casting the next cast. Over time this slowed him down and helped my anticipation of his next move, he also focused on me better and we read each other better and he learned it wasnt all about him. I don't know if it helps any but thought I would share. Good luck with Proof and the others.


Thanks, its always good to be reminded to slow down. The land blind is also my most stressful series. When I'm running a water blind I physically relax my shoulders when he hits the water because I know I have more time to process. I'm laughing about J. We actually have to steady proof on blinds. Never much work to train him to be steady on birds but on blinds that dog breaks all the time... I can't even get my hand down and he's gone. So I work on holding him there, lol! Not a terrible problem to have, I suppose. But the longer I hold it down the calmer he gets and I think he is also reminded one more time I'm in command. It has helped. He just loves to run, as George would say. Sounds like he has inherited some strong genes! Its so interesting and cool to see the traits being passed down. Some in this line are so nice and unique to a lot of field goldens Ive seen but I don't know much because I haven't seen a ton of field golden run in trials down here.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

MillionsofPeaches said:


> We actually have to steady proof on blinds. Never much work to train him to be steady on birds but on blinds that dog breaks all the time... I can't even get my hand down and he's gone. So I work on holding him there, lol! Not a terrible problem to have, I suppose. But the longer I hold it down the calmer he gets and I think he is also reminded one more time I'm in command. It has helped.


MOP,
you make a great point about holding your hand down for awhile before sending. Both my dogs break on blinds. Even the silly show dog. I hadn't thought about holding my hand down longer. I tend to line with my knees, right - left. Once he's positioned, bring my hand down and send as quickly as I can. I'm nervous that I just hit the right spot, I don't want to lose the opportunity to send when he's looking the way I want to. Lucy will look the completely opposite way that she runs, but that's a whole other story. Riot is great on marks and lining him up. Even if he's forgotten where the bird fell on say a triple, he'll go where I line him, and he figures it out. 

Aren't these dogs incredible? I just want to be the best partner I can be.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

Winter was my easy compliant dog. 
Flyer has more drive and is pushier. I really have to pay attention from the moment I go get him. No charging out of the crate. I don’t throw fun bumpers before or after he runs. He’s already having tons of fun. We go together to the holding blind. I’m still working on getting him to sit quietly in holding blind. If he has to wait too long he tends to get bored and active. 
No beating me to the line and no fronting me at the line. What happens from my car to the line can make a difference in how well we do. Maybe this is giving him too much credit but I think Flyer can read me from the car to the line and if I’m not paying attention he is more than happy to tell me to scoot over so he can drive.


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

Claudia M said:


> I personally know of a dog that was dropped in a master test because of the double whistles.


Unfortunately, bad judges judge ... and that's not limited to hunt tests.

FTGoldens


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Claudia M said:


> I personally know of a dog that was dropped in a master test because of the double whistles.


Handler error.

Handler error happens at all levels of testing and competition from Junior to the last series of the National Open. People make mistakes, usually because they acted quickly without thinking first. 


In a Hunt Test there are a few different ways a double whistle can get you in trouble.

If it's to stop the dog during a walk up, you're DQ'd by rule. You can only give the command to sit ONCE either verbally or by whistle, not both. So if that was the situation, leash up your dog you're going home.

During the running of a blind, a double whistle can be interpreted by the judge as the handler just told him/her the dog *refused* the command given, so the command was repeated again by the handler. As previously mentioned Judges count *Refusals*. Do this enough times in a Master, and you're going home early. 

The last interpretation might be regarded as the performance was so loose that the double commands were finally regarded as training on the grounds. (We're here to Test the dogs today, not train dogs.) This is kind of BS if the judges do this, but I get it if it's a large test with limited daylight.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Alaska7133 said:


> I was double and triple whistling on Saturday and got yelled at. “Every whistle is counted by the judge”. I thought I should hit the whistle and collar as often as necessary if Riot looked away. It just seemed the natural thing to do. I was trying really hard to make sure I had his full attention before sending. He’s very impatient and wants to auto cast.


Tell training partners to get a clue. You're TRAINING -- NOT TESTING!!!! 
OK if you "double whistle" for a regular stop to cast during a hunt test (or trial) ---- you're making the judge judge. But here's how they're going to judge it. If you toot-toot for every sit, and the dog is compliant and under control and makes progress to the blind, then guess what you're good to go because who are we to tell you how to train your dog? Maybe you taught him that two toots means sit. BUT if you double whistle as a desperation move to try to simulate a sit-nick-sit, you're blind is probably going down the tubes. Also, some VERY SMART handlers know when their dog is at the MOMENT OF TRUTH in a TEST, will sit them, gain the dog's attention, blow the whistle again, then cast. It's gaining control. It's making the dog really focus before you give that do-or-die cast. That's pretty smart handling. Now, I did get into an argument with an experienced hunt test judge, AT a judging seminar, who was determined to call that second whistle a CAST REFUSAL --- which is insane. The handler didn't cast the dog yet so how could he refuse it? Jerry Mann agreed with me and said there is nothing in the rule books about a double whistle and it certainly isn't a cast refusal. Also note, this particular judge has NEVER trained a dog start to finish to any level...



> He also looks around trying to see the bumper or marker if there is one.


Nope, he's blowing you off. EVERY dog who does this habitually has an owner who lives on excuses like "he's looking for the blind stake." No -- he can't stand your wimpy, tentative casts and wants to go self employed...running FOR you is an irritant to him and he'd just rather do things on his own. TOOT-NICK is what you get for that.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

K9-Design said:


> Nope, he's blowing you off. EVERY dog who does this habitually has an owner who lives on excuses like "he's looking for the blind stake." No -- he can't stand your wimpy, tentative casts and wants to go self employed...running FOR you is an irritant to him and he'd just rather do things on his own. TOOT-NICK is what you get for that.


Yep he’s blowing me off. That’s why I hit the whistle or sit nick sit. Depends on how bad the infraction was. If he just was looking away at a bird or something that caught his attention, I might just do another whistle. If he’s looking around for a pile of bumpers, sit nic sit, and another whistle just for good measure. I want his attention before I send him again. He’s all that now that he’s 2. So keep him slowed down and not rolling is a bit hard to do at times. He likes to drive the truck.

It’s been interesting hearing all the opinions on whether you can get dropped or not for double whistling. If it’s interpreted as a cast refusal, then it makes sense to get dropped. 

As a newbie it’s all a big learning curve for me. I trained Lucy for running blinds. Some days she’s beautiful and handles perfectly and the next day she doesn’t know who the hell you are (she’s not a 2 day dog, she’s a 1 day dog). Riot is a completely different dog. He’s smart and he wants to please me, but he wants to get there really fast...

P.S. What I mean by the 2 day dog comment is, Lucy is good for 1 day only. Next day she blows you off and doesn’t care to be a partner. First days are almost always good, second days are terrible. So I call her a 1 day dog...


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

I would have little tolerance for not looking at you after a sit whistle with a dog like Riot. Really, would you accept if he looked away from you during heeling because a bird flew by? He should have laser focused vision. Don't make excuses for him being naughty 

Yeah, Bally is good for two days hard training. Day three his brain is toast. Now I can train lightweight stuff for literally weeks in a row but if it's big setups or groups, two days is what I get.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Swampcollie said:


> Handler error.
> 
> Handler error happens at all levels of testing and competition from Junior to the last series of the National Open. People make mistakes, usually because they acted quickly without thinking first.
> 
> ...



That is exactly what happened. Also a novice handler who was confused as to why the dog all of a sudden would not sit all the way. Today, a 42 dog MH test I would not consider it a large test.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

Have you been able to Stacey? How’s it going?


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

hollyk said:


> Have you been able to Stacey? How’s it going?


It's been interesting the last few weeks. I got the camera out and had a friend video me and Riot on a couple of cold blinds. I won't share it here, it was quite bad. Sooo a friend with many years of experience in the field trial game is working with me to correct our issues. 
Stage 1
1. Go back to double T. But do not run to the side piles, only to the back pile.
2. If the dog goes to the side piles, No, Here, move up, resend. Do not cast from the whistle sit, just recall and resend.
3. Run the dog to the back pile 6-8 times. Only from your side, no casting.
4. Do this drill 5 to 8 sessions until the dog is perfect and doesn't go to the side piles.
Stage 2
5. Then start casting to the pile. Whistle sit midway, then cast to the back pile. 
6. Casting only to the back pile several sessions.
7. Once he's perfect, then move on to casting to side piles.
Stage 3
8. When casting to side piles, only cast to side 1 out of 3 casts.
9. No cold blinds again until his obedience is cleaned up.

Riot needs to learn I'm driving the bus. Riot knows double T, the issue isn't teaching him double T, it's about getting him to learn that I'm in charge. This drill is all about me being in control. It's hard to back up this far, but he continued to degrade on his cold blinds to the point that he didn't need me at all.

So far he has taken 2 weeks to run this drill in Stage 1. Only once without going to a side pile when I send him from my side. That's a lot of No, Here, resend. I am not even casting him yet. Sunday was his first day doing the drill clean. Yesterday (Monday), he was back to his old tricks of running to a side pile. Yesterday he even blew off my sit whistle and picked up the bumper anyway. Which of course he got some collar response from me. He sat next to the pile and I took the bumper and threw it back on the pile. He didn't do it again. Looks like we will be in Stage 1 for awhile longer. He's a lot of dog and I need to be patient and not move ahead too quickly.

I was told the idea is that the dog has to make mistakes and you have to correct the dog in order for this drill to work.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

Great update! Sounds like you are moving toward solid ground.
Flyer is on his own tough love regiment right now. This boy is determined to make me a better handler.


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