# Crate Training - Can you help explain it to me?



## julliams (Oct 27, 2010)

Don't get me wrong, I have done alot of reading but there are a couple of things that I can't get my head around.

We have an open plan home so gates are not really going to work for us. Our lounge and kitchen is all open, we have a study off the kitchen and a mezanine dining room which has entrances to the study and lounge room.

So when I bring my 8 week old up home I'm thinking that I will section off an area in our dining room (visible from the lounge room as it is open) with a child's wooden playpen (we already have it from when our children were little).

Within this enclosure, would I put a crate to sleep in, fresh water and a pee pad for when I'm not at home? 

Also, I have read about people who say they are out of their house for 8+ hours and from what I'm reading it sounds like the pup is in the crate the whole time. Is that right? I only work 15 hours a week but on one of the days I'm out from 8am until 2:30pm. Would I seriously put the pup in the crate for that long and expect them not to eat, drink or pee/poop in all that time? I just can't believe that would be the case - it doesn't seem right. 

Wouldn't I have them in the playpen enclosure with access to the crate (so door open) and water, a kong with food and perhaps a pee pad for if the pup has to go? That seems like a better way to me?

My problem is that my playpen is only just over a metre each way and I'm sure the crate is bigger than this so I'm not sure how it's all going to fit!

Sorry if I offend - I don't mean to. I just don't totally understand the whole Crate training thing. Is there a website that someone can point me to or perhaps a puppy bible?

Thanks


----------



## Abby (Aug 17, 2010)

Ok, that sounds like a good setup. For me crate training was really easy-stuck him in there the first night and didn't pee or poo at all. Puppies consider the crate there den and they don't want to soil their little area. They'll probably whine and bark the first few weeks/days and but IGNORE when you just put them in. If it's sudden in the middle of the night, s/he might need to go potty. At night, expect to wake up at least once to take the pup pee/poo, for the first week or so. Hopefully you'll be sleeping close to the crate. For the first few nights, you'll be sleeping with one eye open. Make sure there are toys and chewies in the crate and pen so the dog doesn't get bored. Personally, I don't feed or water in the crate, but lots of people will tell you to. Also, I cut off water after 8 o clock so the pup won't have to pee as bad. 
About the crate training, yes many people leave their dogs in crate for 8+ hours when they're at work, but that is a definite no-no for such a young puppy, more than 3-4 hours, and the pup will need someone to come over and play with, maybe feed and take outside. You'd be surprised how long they can hold it in their crate, and of course it varies dog to dog, but on one occasion my 2 month old held it for 14 hours once when I overslept!
Also, one very useful piece of advice- I don't know if you're a first time puppy owner, but remember, take the pup out to pee/poo at least every hour. Have plenty of nature's miracle and bitter apple on hand, expect furniture to be chewed, arms to be bitten and clothing to be shredded. PUPPYPROOF!! Also, when you are at home, CONSTANTLY SUPERVISE!!! You have to keep an eagle eye on her, and when you are busy, umbilical cord her! You may have come across this term on the forum, but it is very useful! Put the leash around your waist, and she'll go wherever you go. This is mentally taxing for the pup as she'll have to follow your every move.
Anyways, long post, but I hope I answered your questions!
Good luck with the puppy!!

EDIT: It may seem better if you let give her access to the food and water while you're away, but believe me, you will find a mess to clean up when you get home. Also, you can attach the crate to the playpen. If the pen has panels, you can open the door and a panel, and latch or even tape it together. Also, I wouldn't suggest pee pads. Unless you want a 70 pound dog peeing and pooing in the house on pads, you'll have to each her to go on grass eventually. Especially when you're not there, she'll more likely chew the pad then pee on it. Lastly, a tip: I'm assuming you have a wire crate and if you dog, you could cover three sides of it with a blanket or bedsheet, this will make the crate feel more den-like, she can see outside, but it is still enclosed.


----------



## julliams (Oct 27, 2010)

Abby - you are a gem. Thank you. That is all very easy to understand. I'm very lucky because I have from mid December to mid February off from work as I am a flute teacher, so I'll be at home constantly to start the training process. This is very fortunate. After that I'll go to my 15 hours per week so this pup will have LOTS of attention.

And thanks for answering the crate size question. The wooden playpen probably won't take the 42" crate so we might have to rig something else up. The playpen is at my mothers so I'll have to go pick it up and check it out.


----------



## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

There is a cool book called Crate Games(I think by Susan Garrett) that teached pups to adore their crates. It's kind of a fad around here to teach Crate Games along with STAR Puppy.


----------



## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

One thing to think about is cultural differences... what most of us in the US do... is quite different than what the dog savvy people in Australia do. Most people here who work longer hours will get someone to let a young puppy out of the crate or they come home during lunch/break. And some are able to get the same service for adult dogs. Food and water can be given during the breaks and some leave water always accessible ( I typically have).


A few things about your set up: 
- Remember that puppies chew wood.
- You could have your pen with no crate in it. Puppies don't HAVE to have access to a crate at all times.
- There's a product called an "exercise pen" that's like wire crate panels...and you can make it into various shapes. You can attach it to a crate, making an 'open' area and then the crate... 
-


----------



## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

It sounds like you'd be home the first bit to get puppy used to a routine, and by the time you go back to work that one 'long morning' shouldn't be such an issue for the pup.

I don't do pee pads, apart from special situations. Once the puppy comes 'home' it's much easier to have it clear that the bathroom is ONLY outside, and that it isn't a matter of the silly human forgot to put the bathroom down. You can do pee pads etc. but it's more mess to deal with, they shuffle them and miss and hit the floor or flood them and so on. Plus it's then one more step to teach them to go outside anyway (unless you plan to have pee pads as part of the house design from here on).

I feed on a loose routine, but in a crate. Meaning I don't always feed exactly at 7 am, breakfast is when I get up and get organized and get it to them. Three foster pups here, they were up at 4 am to potty for some reason and have been sleeping since, it's now 9:30 and I guess I should get them up and going - they're all very quiet though. I don't give them water in their crates or after dinner, so they don't have to pee through the night. Yes, they'll drink lots in the morning but that's life.

Sometimes they'll get bones in their crates too, and that'll keep them busy for a while. But really puppies are like human babies, they do sleep a lot so don't feel overly bad that the pup would have to spend one day in a crate a week - you could find someone possibly to do a potty break for the first bit, but if you work up towards that time routine it should be fine. It may mean on that day you have the crate as close to the door or pick up puppy and get them outside asap, but it should be fine.

Some people do work 8 hour days and have puppies and make it work, usually by the 3-4 month mark they are sleeping through the night anyway (if not sooner) so provided they get up early and do their walk/play and get tired out they should do just fine till someone comes home.

Good luck!

Lana


----------



## tanianault (Dec 11, 2010)

*julliams*: I think I can direct you to a resource that will help:
Here's a link to the full-text version of Dr Ian Dunbar's _Before You Get Your Puppy_ Free Downloads | Dog Star Daily

In the book, Dr Dunbar recommends that you set up a small "puppy playroom" (a small room or contained area) that contains everything your puppy will need to amuse herself, and relieve herself, during those time when you will be out of the house longer than your puppy can "hold it". As you can see from the photo on page 56, the playroom is probably bigger than a playpen, but not huge.

Dr Dunbar recommends the crate for nighttime sleeping and for any time during the day when you cannot give your puppy 100% of your attention: need to take a shower? Puppy and chewies go in the crate. Need to take a phonecall? Puppy and chewies go in the crate. 

Dr Dunbar also has another book, _After You Get Your Puppy_, the link is on the same page as the above. 

Hope that helps.

- Tania


----------



## GoldenJoy (Jul 30, 2009)

Before and After Getting Your Puppy by Ian Dunbar - yep, that's the puppy Bible you seek!!!!!!!!

Awesome resource, just terrific.


----------



## Angel_Kody (Feb 27, 2007)

I have been looking at Dr. Dunbar's idea of the puppy playpen or doggy den for our new pup also this time around. I have utilized crates and ex-pens in the past but never used pee-pads or set up a toilet area within the pen. I have always been afraid (as a previous poster touched on) of confusing the pup as to where it is ok to toilet...inside or outside. I understand that when they are very young they have tiny little bladders but I am terrified of the whole pee-pad/indoor toilet area thing creating a very long and drawn out house-training phase.


----------



## tanianault (Dec 11, 2010)

My breeder, Lianne, also recommends an indoor potty area for very young puppies, particularly for people who can't be on hand around the clock to take them outside to potty. And based on what I witnessed this afternoon I'd say it certainly works for her. 
She has Jade's litter set up in a separate area in the kitchen with a blanket on the floor as a "den area" where mama and puppies sleep, nurse, etc. On the side is an area for their potty. This afternoon, during our puppy visit, I watched several of the puppies wobble off the blanket to pee. (These puppies will be three weeks old on Monday.)
Lianne says she has never had any trouble transferring the puppies to go outside - the pup she kept from the previous litter stopped using his indoor potty by the time he was four months old.

- Tania


----------



## Born In Boston (Apr 23, 2010)

I downloaded Dr. Ian Dunbar's books last week and found them REALLY helpful-- especially hte one called BEFORE YOU GET YOUR PUPPY. He lays out the "rules" really clearly, and has some great small tips (like throw a treat into puppy's crate with puppy outside, and _shut the door_--that way puppy will WANT to go inside himself).

The only thing I found about him is that he tends to be a bit Draconian, and frequently warns that if you don't get certain behaviors down with your pup by certain age milestones your dog will be, um, ruined. I get that it's easier to teach things than do remedial work, but he made me feel that if I didn't have 100 new people over to my house in the first thirty days of puppydom my dog would need therapy. I don't even _know_ 100 people, let alone 100 people I'd invite to my house.

This is my first dog (coming January 15th to a crate near me) and I'm guessing that, like kids, you follow those rules that work best for you and try not to get hysterical about the rest of it. At least, that's my plan.


----------

