# ILP Questions



## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

Ok...I have an aquaintance who has a Shih Tzu and a Poodle mix. She thinks she can get her ILP...but there are NO MUTTS allowed in AKC. Our old mentor said that she could lie about it...ugh...I'm like OK? I don't think so....so I told her this morning that she can't lie about it...because you could get into trouble...

What should I do?


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

Well, you have given her the information and told her she would get in trouble if she lies about it, that's probably all you CAN do. If she elects to go ahead and lie then it will have to be her head that rolls. You are guilt free! I know you don't want to see your friend get into trouble but seeing she has free will, you can only tell her what will happen and go on from there.

Jazzys Mom


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## nrhareiner (Feb 27, 2007)

To me an ILP is nothing more then a lisence to perform in an AKC sanctioned performance event. They must be altered so it really dose not matter.

I would venture to say that 90% of all ILP dogs reg with AKC are mutts and not truely purbreds without papers. Doing quite a few AKC shows this year I normally get the show cataloge which lists all the dogs and there are always a few on ILPs performing and you can tell which ones they are. A few weeks ago there was a Golden showing on an ILP and I will say this it was really easy to pick him out.

Heidi


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

The dog has be recognizable as the breed you are entering it as. You have to provide photos of the dog with the application for the ILP, so they would probably catch it if she tried to apply.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

What is your beef against mixed breeds? I find it bizarre... I DO agree it's ideal not to LIE knowingly on ILP, but sheesh.


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## Sit Happens (Jul 7, 2007)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> What is your beef against mixed breeds? I find it bizarre...



Ditto, Jen.

Creekview, it's time to stand behind your statement and tell us exactly WHAT you have AGAINST mixed breeds! 

Tell your friend she can always do UKC. They allow mixed breeds to get limited privileges to compete in the performance venues.


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

I told her about UKC...she didn't want to because I wasn't going to be there...or not at all...she's not really my friend...I don't really like her...she thinks that her dog is BETTER than everyone else's dog. At the state dog show she won the "Highest Scoring Pre-Novice Dog"...ever since then she thinks hes the best...

I think I've told you what my beef is against mixed breeds...but I'll say it again...I don't want this to turn into a political debate. But, I feel that people just breed them for the fun of it and the "designer dogs"...everyone supports them and is actually ruining the dog world...people who don't train them or love them...the dogs end up out in the street or in a shelter...but yes I do feel bad for the dogs who do have a certain amount of time left until they are euthanized. 

I also think that people hold their mixed breeds up above the other dogs...like saying "Oh...she/he can do this better than that dog over there"...when its the other way around. I just feel that it would ruin the purebreed world...but letting AKC having them join in on the fun of performance events.

That's just my opinion..like I said...I would love to not have this Go sooooo much into a debate and have everybody hate me...I LOVE THIS FORUM...I don't know wat id do without it.


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## telsmith1 (Sep 11, 2006)

Here is a question. Can an ILP dog get a CGC? Or a non-AKC dog?


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

Yes, I think any dog can get a CGC...no matter what it is!


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Becky, yes he can


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Well, designer dogs, my dear, are a TINY TINY percentage of mixed breeds!


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## telsmith1 (Sep 11, 2006)

Awesome! I think Dixie would easily pass.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Go for it...


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## Sit Happens (Jul 7, 2007)

CreekviewGoldens said:


> That's just my opinion..like I said...I would love to not have this Go sooooo much into a debate and have everybody hate me...I LOVE THIS FORUM...I don't know wat id do without it.


So, you are basing your opinion of mixed breeds on what you feel about "designer dogs"?This is a totally different subject, altogether. 

And as far as unwanted dogs that end up getting dumped...honey, the purebreds are way up there.


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

Designer dogs and mixed breeds are two entirely different things. The poor mixed breed dog didn't ask to be that and why shouldn't he be allowed to compete? Just because he is a mixed breed doesn't make him any less intelligent than a pure bred

Jazzys Mom


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

So what I'm hearing you say is ~ 

You don't like designer dogs (mixed breeds intentionally bred by a breeder) and some of their owners.


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

If you're asking me my answer would have to be no. I know some designer dogs that are the sweeetest, cutest dogs I have ever met, but by breeding this was the 2 breeds that the designer dog is bred from is being diluted

Jazzys Mom


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

I think Creekview has a dislike for the *owners* of mix breed dogs more so than the dogs, owners who claim their mix is better than a purebred, and designer breeding. 

At least I hope you would not be blaming the dog for it's breeding - which in every case is a human's doing.


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## Sit Happens (Jul 7, 2007)

mylissyk said:


> I think Creekview has a dislike for the *owners* of mix breed dogs more so than the dogs, owners who claim their mix is better than a purebred, and designer breeding.
> 
> At least I hope you would not be blaming the dog for it's breeding - which in every case is a human's doing.


Very well put. Thank you! CV, is that how you feel?


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## nrhareiner (Feb 27, 2007)

To me I have not problem competing against a dog with an ILP. If my dog is not good enough to beat the ILP dog or any other dog them I need to do one of two things. Work harder to make sure my dog is better so he/she can win and if that dose not work then I have a really well trained pet. With my horses any horse can compet in the NRHA. Most are registered QH but you will get others and at time grades. I have not problem taking their owners money at the end of the day and if I can not then you can refer to the statement above. However I normally do come home with the trophies and money so yep let them compet. I have no problem competing against any horse or dog. I always say the more the marrier and in the end it only helps the registerd stock. Most people who have grade horses or other breeds of horses in NRHA will end up with a QH if they like the sport so they can be competative. Same with the dogs. If they start competing with a dog that has an ILP and like it them their next dog may just be a well bred purebred for a good breeder. In the end it is all good. You make new friends and you can enjoy their new animal with them.

Heidi


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

No...well in some cases yes I think the owners are a bit...umm...arrogant and think their better than everyone else because they own a "designer dog"....some owners only feel that that's the best way to go, and then keep breeding them...thinking that it's ok to breed dogs who are most likely not to find a house...or they might find a house.

I just don't like the way people think about them..."Oh, their so great...you should get one"....but I think that their ruining the purebreed world if they let mixed breeds into competition. Lets say that person has 5 mixed breeds...will they ever in their lifetime get a purebreed? Will AKC limit their number...so that next time they'll get a purebreed?

I also don't like how AKC puts this...as just a way to get their hands full of cash. Are they going to put limits on this...or what?


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Why does it matter if someone only ever owns mixed breeds?


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

I suppose it would depend on if the person has a "designer breed" or a "mixed breed." People with "designer breeds" can afford a purebred dog, so maybe they would someday own a purebred. 

People with "mixed breeds" may not be able to afford a purebred, or may have wonderful open minds and loving hearts and rescued their "mixed breeds." 

I love them all...


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## nrhareiner (Feb 27, 2007)

First to get an ILP the dog must be altered so there is no breeding involved. If people get involved with a sport most not all will opt up to the next leval unless they are not a competative person then they may just be happy with the mix. I see it all the time in horses. You get someone coming to an NRHA show with a grade or even a full reg. QH that may not be bred to do reining they give it a try look at what the other people are doing and riding someone offers to let them ride their finshed reiner and the next thing you know they are out buying a well bred reining horse. Now if NRHA did not allow grads to show in NRHA competition these people would never of had the opertunity to give it a try. There are levals for every horse and every rider but to really be competative you need a horse bred to do the job. Some grades do well but most do not especially when you get past the affiliate leval. 

Same with dogs. If you get one and are just OK with getting qualifying scores then you may be happy with a lower leval dog but if you want to win then you will go looking for a purebred that may be more likely to get the job done. I know the last show I was kicking my self as Abby would have had a 100 on her Rally score if I had not messed up. Oh well. Thing is at 10 1/2 months to be able to do that well is a testament to her breeding and her breed.

Heidi


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

CreekviewGoldens said:


> No...well in some cases yes I think the owners are a bit...umm...arrogant and think their better than everyone else because they own a "designer dog"....some owners only feel that that's the best way to go, and then keep breeding them...thinking that it's ok to breed dogs who are most likely not to find a house...or they might find a house.
> 
> I just don't like the way people think about them..."Oh, their so great...you should get one"....but I think that their ruining the purebreed world if they let mixed breeds into competition. Lets say that person has 5 mixed breeds...will they ever in their lifetime get a purebreed? Will AKC limit their number...so that next time they'll get a purebreed?
> 
> I also don't like how AKC puts this...as just a way to get their hands full of cash. Are they going to put limits on this...or what?


The only way the purebred world will be ruined is to breed 2 different breeds of dogs as the designer breeders are doing. This dilutes the gene pool of both breeds! A mixed breed/designer breed dog that is performing in an AKC sanctioned obedience show or agility show or flyball, etc cannot hurt the gene pool of the purebreds. I don't see anything wrong with AKC giving ILP numbers to mixed breeds so they can compete.

Jazzys Mom


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Me either...

And if people start breeding BC x Whippet (for example) to kick butt in agility, then ILPing them- the worst case thing I can imagine- then so what? As long as they breed them carefully, for a purpose, so what? Is it any worse than breeding freaks of nature for the breed ring? 

To me that is a whole diff planet from breeding uncleared POS dogs to sell to idiots (ie, Labradoodles).


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## Sit Happens (Jul 7, 2007)

CreekviewGoldens said:


> I also don't like how AKC puts this...as just a way to get their hands full of cash. Are they going to put limits on this...or what?


OK, Caryn. I was going to TRY to sit on my hands and not respond to this insane garbage that you insist on spouting. But now I have no choice.

AKC doesn't give a **** where they get their money. Puppymills are a huge cash cow for AKC. Are you "for" puppymills? They produce "purebred" dogs. I think puppymills are considerably worse (and that's the understatement of the year), than the fact that AKC is *considering* allowing ALTERED mixed breed dogs to compete in performance events?

I enjoy showing and competing with dogs, so I choose to focus on the positive aspect (that AKC provides me with a venue to compete with dogs in various events). 

You are coming across as some sort of fanatical purebred nazi, and I'm really not sure WHY. Who is telling you this stuff? I know you are young, and I've been trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. But it's getting ridiculous.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

CreekviewGoldens said:


> No...well in some cases yes I think the owners are a bit...umm...arrogant and think their better than everyone else because they own a "designer dog"....some owners only feel that that's the best way to go, and then keep breeding them...thinking that it's ok to breed dogs who are most likely not to find a house...or they might find a house.
> *That problem is NOT specific to mixed-breed dogs.*
> 
> I just don't like the way people think about them..."Oh, their so great...you should get one"....
> ...


*AKC will "paper" a puppy mill dog. TO me that's FAR WORSE than allowing mixed breed dogs (who will never be bred themselves b/c they are altered) to participate in performance events.*

*You keep saying you don't want to turn this into a debate, but frankly, you go around making such bold statements as "mixed breeds will ruin AKC events" you're asking for a debate, my dear!

It's fine to have your preference. I *prefer* to own purebred dogs too, but I have nothing against mixed breeds.*


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Ack... I really messed up with the quoting and color above.... my comments are in bold red!


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

> *AKC will "paper" a puppy mill dog. TO me that's FAR WORSE than allowing mixed breed dogs (who will never be bred themselves b/c they are altered) to participate in performance events.
> 
> **You keep saying you don't want to turn this into a debate, but frankly, you go around making such bold statements as "mixed breeds will ruin AKC events" you're asking for a debate, my dear!
> 
> It's fine to have your preference. I *prefer* to own purebred dogs too, but I have nothing against mixed breeds.*


Stephanie:I have to agree with you on this one...why will AKC paper dogs who came from a mill? WOW....

I was talking to ACC today and the only reason why I made statements like that was because there's this one girl in 4-h...who got me started on this thread. Anyway...she goes around sometimes saying good things about her mutt...and sometimes saying bad things about him. She wants to do all this stuff with him...for one thing she said that "He knows how to heel"...no he does not...he doesnt know anything and all she does is scream at him and stomp her feet around and then going on and on for three days about his bad training day. UGH!!

I guess you're right Stephanie...I think I made most of the debate...I just have never expirienced a mix and probably never will...my heart is devoted to purebreeds...and showing them in AKC.

I'm sorry to cause such a fuss...I'm young and stupid...so I'll make LOTS of mistakes on here. I'll just have to bare with myself...and you guys. 

What I'm trying to say is there's NOTHING wrong with owning a mix...it's just that it upsets me that people think I hate the world of mixes...I don't. There are some good ones out there...and some aggressive mixes out there. But...in the end I have to realize it's just a dog. 

Like I said...I'm young and stupid...yes...I can agree with the stupid part. :banghead: <<<Ok I don't do that...but that's sometimes how stupid I can be. I just don't realize what I've said and how it affects others. 

I've said some nasty things to people back in my day...they don't like me...but what they never realized is that I didn't like them in the beginning...because of how they treated me.

So...with that all said...I'm sorry...mixes are great...and so are purebreds. I just didn't want everyone on here hating me...and I can say many people don't like me.

I've gotten "pushed around"...not literally...but harassed over the past four years. No one really liked me in middle school...I have no idea why...but they all wanted me out of town and other **** like that.

For the rest of my life ( I think)...I will probably be taking stuff said...directly towards me. I don't want you thinking like that either.

All I have to remember is that they are all dogs...no matter what. I just wish I wasn't showed all that hoopla in 4h...or I mean thinking about mixes in 4h like that...can someone show me different? What I mean is...can you tell me a story about a mix that will change me??

I want you to know that I agree with what Stephanie said...I prefer to own purebreds. But maybe I'll rescue a Golden when I'm an adult...and have the space for TONS of dogs...hehe.

Caryn


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Girl, you're NOT stupid.

And I understand more where you're coming from. Don't call yourself stupid, though. I do it too, and it's not healthy!

I wasn't exactly adored in school either. It hurts. In time, you learn who will accept you and that is who you focus on. 

If someone else is a bragging fool, remember- they're the ones with the problem. Not you


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## Sit Happens (Jul 7, 2007)

Caryn...no one here hates you. I think some people are very upset about what you posted about mixed breeds (I am too, in a way...I love mutts). But you can't go around beating yourself up for it. People make mistakes, we are all human. LEARN from it and go on. 

Fifteen is a difficult age. Try to focus on the good parts. Learn everything you can, this forum is a wonderful place for you to learn. There are lots of people here who can help, people who have a wealth of information and experience. 

So, be open minded...open your mind to learning from other people, and you will go far. Hate is such a strong and negative emotion, don't give in to it. Don't "hate" anything. 

Jen and I have faith in you. You are a very passionate, strong-minded person. Learn to harness your passion in a positive way...if you do, you will go far.


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## Ardeagold (Feb 26, 2007)

I understand what you're saying. But I don't agree with you. Mixes can be as wonderful or as bad as purebreds. 

Yes...the addition of mixes in competitive events IS geared to making more money for the AKC. It IS a business, after all. They're supposed to make money, otherwise, why be in business?

I don't think the addition of mixes in AKC competitive events is going to hurt the "sport of dogs" at all. It's going to get more people involved, and by doing that, they'll LEARN. They'll learn what constitutes a good breeder, a good quality dog, they'll learn about things like training, rescue, etc. They'll be involved with the sport of "dogs". They can't help but learn. This is a GOOD thing, for all dogs and owners.

I've had mostly purebreds in my life. However, I have also had the occasional mutt. Those mutts have been just as smart (often smarter), just as loyal, just as worthy of love and care, just as beautiful, and just as wonderful as any purebred I've ever owned.

Remember......they didn't ask to be born. And also remember.....we're mutts. I've only met a very few humans who aren't. So, don't be so tough on them and the people who own and love them. They deserve to "play" a little too! 

Oh....and don't feel badly about saying "dumb" things. (Note I said "saying dumb things"....not implying YOU'RE dumb). It goes with being young and inexperienced. When you get older, you can rationalize it's because you're old and forgetful! :lol: We ALL say dumb things now and again. Even me (but it's because I'm old)! :lol: :lol:


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

> Jen and I have faith in you. You are a very passionate, strong-minded person. Learn to harness your passion in a positive way...if you do, you will go far.


Well thanks for saying that. Yes...I'm VERY PASSIONATE about dogs and competing. Sometimes things just get to me...in a way. 

I'll try to watch what I say. And try not to upset soo many people. 

I think you're right...no one hates me...they just are upset. To those of you who are...I'm sorry...sometimes things get to the better of me.



> If someone else is a bragging fool, remember- they're the ones with the problem. Not you


Yea your right Jen...she does have some problems.

Thanks for making me change my mind about this discussion...Jen..and SitHappens (what's your name...I forgot...oops). I really enjoy talking to you and the many others on here. 

I'm glad we all have our differences...and we all agree to accept them.

GO HUG YOUR DOGS!!


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

> I don't think the addition of mixes in AKC competitive events is going to hurt the "sport of dogs" at all. It's going to get more people involved, and by doing that, they'll LEARN. They'll learn what constitutes a good breeder, a good quality dog, they'll learn about things like training, rescue, etc. They'll be involved with the sport of "dogs". They can't help but learn. This is a GOOD thing, for all dogs and owners.
> 
> I've had mostly purebreds in my life. However, I have also had the occasional mutt. Those mutts have been just as smart (often smarter), just as loyal, just as worthy of love and care, just as beautiful, and just as wonderful as any purebred I've ever owned.
> 
> Remember......they didn't ask to be born. And also remember.....we're mutts. I've only met a very few humans who aren't. So, don't be so tough on them and the people who own and love them. They deserve to "play" a little too!


You know...I have to actually agree with you on this. Maybe it won't be sooo bad as I thought it would. They'll learn and support dogs...etc. 

Right now..my mind isn't so jumbled...hehe...it's actually changing ever since this topic came up...THANKS!!

I realize now mutts aren't so bad, and I can start to accept them into AKC sports. (WOW...this is just happening over night for me). Maybe I'll meet some new people...but I've met SO MANY people now...who are willing to help me!!


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

See, you are opening your mind already! Good for you! You are not stupid at all, please quit talking yourself down like that! There is going to be many things in your life that you don't agree with but you just have to look at them as other people do. Have an open mind on everything and maybe you'll even jump over to the other's viewpoint on some things! As for mixed breeds vs purebreds ----- I have always had purebreds but have known some mighty fine mixed breeds too. Several come to mind --- my son's Border Collie mix is a great little dog and highly intelligent. The little Puggle that lives down the street from my daughter is such a cutie and just oozes personality. My other son's Whippet mix is the sweetest little dog you could imagine. remember, all these dogs have no idea they are not purebreds and our purebreds have no idea they ARE purebreds. Its us silly humans who put these stigmas on the poor dogs! Shame on us! Now, when you go into competition with your Golden and you meet the mixes in competition maybe the owners of the mixes will see your beautiful Golden and that may be their next dog. So you are an influence! Be good to yourself. You have some great qualities!

Jazzys Mom


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

_I was talking to ACC today and the only reason why I made statements like that was because there's this one girl in 4-h...who got me started on this thread. Anyway...she goes around sometimes saying good things about her mutt...and sometimes saying bad things about him. She wants to do all this stuff with him...for one thing she said that "He knows how to heel"...no he does not...he doesnt know anything and all she does is scream at him and stomp her feet around and then going on and on for three days about his bad training day. UGH!!_

Well, the fact that he's a mixed-breed dog has nothing to do with what you described. Would you have felt differently - or even started the thread -- if her dog was a purebred?

You're not stupid. Don't put yourself down like that. It's great to have a passion. Just be sure to try and remain open minded about things and accept the fact that some people will feel differently than you do... and that's okay. That's exactly why cars come in different colors!

When you start showing in obedience, you'll see dogs and handlers competing in Nov. that have lots of different skill levels. Some will barely qualify with a 171 on a dog who had no attention in the ring, was lagging, no personality, crooked sits, etc.... but did the job well enough to qualify. His owner may be thrilled!

That same performance would mortify you or I if it were our dogs.

Still, smile and congratulate the handler on his qualifying score. Not everyone is driven to try and achieve High in Trial... and that's okay, too.

I'm just tossing that idea out there as unsolicited advice.... cuz that's one thing about obedience that really bugs me. The really competitive people sometimes go around commenting on the not-so-competitive ones... Don't be like that. Not saying that you are.... just saying make sure that you aren't! Hahaha!

Keep posting... even if it sparks a debate. We can all have different opinions and sometimes those differences are educational!

-Stephanie


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## bizzy (Mar 30, 2007)

I am really glad you are being willing to open your mind. I grew up with a golden and love them and the breed. But currently own a mutt. She was a stray from the pound and is the smartest dog I have ever owned. She taught me SO much about training She made me better showing me how much I telegraphed by my body language. I regret that I can't show her in AKC just because she is a mutt. She could fairly beat many purebeed dogs. I will likely get a purebred simply because it will be easier to show. Its us humans that but the stigma on them. Judge the dog for what it can do not who its parents are. Humans will always due stupid things, Puppymill purebreds or mixes for money and the humans who buy both. You are not stupid you have an open enough mind to listen and learn and change. That makes you intellegent not dumb or stupid


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## Sit Happens (Jul 7, 2007)

FlyingQuizini said:


> When you start showing in obedience, you'll see dogs and handlers competing in Nov. that have lots of different skill levels. Some will barely qualify with a 171 on a dog who had no attention in the ring, was lagging, no personality, crooked sits, etc.... but did the job well enough to qualify. His owner may be thrilled!
> 
> -Stephanie


Steph, we all know you are aiming for a perfect 200 with your OB debut with Quiz!!!! Just don't let it hold you back too much. He does awesome in practice. Aim for perfection, and you will surely qualify...the obedience mantra, lol! 

I had a GSD bitch that I trained through Utility...three years of hard work. She always flaked out on me in a trial environment (show & go's, matches, ASCA trials). I finally placed her in a pet home. I know this isn't the case with Quiz...my point is that practice makes perfect. And Quiz is **** near perfect in his practice! So, GO for it!!!


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Sit Happens said:


> Steph, we all know you are aiming for a perfect 200 with your OB debut with Quiz!!!! Just don't let it hold you back too much. He does awesome in practice. Aim for perfection, and you will surely qualify...the obedience mantra, lol!
> 
> I had a GSD bitch that I trained through Utility...three years of hard work. She always flaked out on me in a trial environment (show & go's, matches, ASCA trials). I finally placed her in a pet home. I know this isn't the case with Quiz...my point is that practice makes perfect. And Quiz is **** near perfect in his practice! So, GO for it!!!


Oh hell ya! I'm totally goin' for it with him! And I know he can do it if *I* can do it! My personal goal for him is to try and consistently be a 197+... 'cuz my high score with my Whippet was 197.5. I figure, if I can do that with a Whippet, I can do it with Quiz!

I'm just sayin' that not everybody cares to aim for perfection... and I think that's okay too. I think sometimes when people train with competitive trainers (those who do attention heeling, etc.) like I do with Quiz and like Caryn is doing, it can be easy to start to think that everyone should be that way if they want to show. I have a couple friends who call it "painful" to watch a team qualify with a 170. I guess I'm just really laid back... two each is own..... I wouldn't be happy with a 170, but I won't fault someone who is.

And while we're on the topic of competitive trainers! HOLY COW did mine give me a workout today!


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

_Steph, we all know you are aiming for a perfect 200 with your OB debut with Quiz!!!!_

I aspire to one day be a smooth enough handler to earn a 200 with a dog... but I'm not personally there yet! 

200 or not, I think Quiz is cuter than snot when he's working and he comes home High In Trial in my heart no matter what happens in the ring! (But yeah, if we don't score above a 195 it's true that I'll be out training my ass off before I show him again!)

-S


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Hey Caryn,

I noticed that Maddie is an ILP Golden... what's her story? Is she a rescue? Maybe you mentioned already and I missed it?

-S


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

Maddie's Story:

My mom got an e-mail about Puppies...from my aunt...who owns Maddie's father. She gave a little "hint-hint" in there. So...me and my sister convinced my mom...we just had to get my dad convinced. We had begged him for weeks...he finally cracked...and I immediately called up my aunt...she was happy and would let the breeder know. I don't know if she's a "true breeder"...maybe we have been hit with a backyard breeder? They know their stuff though. They read up on it alot and took good care of the dogs.

Maddie's dad, Moe, was registered. His registered name is, Sir Mozart Moe Whiskey. Maddie's mother's name is Kelsey...she isn't registered. So a trainer in 4-H...who still today competes with her Standard Poodles, and a Corgi...had told me about the ILP program, AKC offers. She had said I should get some lessons that winter...we did...and that's when we started with the HORRIBLE trainer. I didn't like her, my mom came to one of the lessons, because my dad couldn't she didn't like what was going on either...im SOOO GLAD we don't go there anymore. Then she was telling us about getting another dog...YIKES!! I was BALLING my head off at the show...Maddie is the first dog I've ever had...then we started weaning ourselves off of her. Then I e-mailed Linda...look where we are today! I'm happy as can be and CAN NOT WAIT to show! 

Stephanie-What's your trainers name? What did you do today...that wore you out so much?

Hey...what about a Stick training Journal?

I forgot SOO much about ACC's Yahoo group...oops!


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

CreekviewGoldens said:


> Stephanie-What's your trainers name? What did you do today...that wore you out so much?
> 
> Hey...what about a Stick training Journal?
> 
> I forgot SOO much about ACC's Yahoo group...oops!


I train with Moira Cornell. If you saw Showdogs Moms and Dads a couple years ago, she was the woman with the Aussies. She's one of the three "big name" competitive obedience people here in So. Cal.... along with Ann Marie Silverton and her tribe of followers (Louise Meredith, etc.) and Jan DeMello... but Jan recently moved out of state.

What is a "stick training journal"? I

Anyway, today we were proofing attention.... hardcore! Tossing toys around us while heeling, waving food around, having her Aussie puppy following her around in the ring while we were working, etc., etc. Really hard stuff and mentally exhausting for the dog!

BTW - you're trainer's dog... Ticket... he's a Wildfire dog, right? I know them well... in fact before I got Quiz, I was on the list for a Wildfire dog sired by Smasher... but the bitch was x-rayed and only had 3 pups and I was 4th on the list... so I went with a Tanbark Golden instead!

-S


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

A sticky training journal is where you write down all about what you did today...it's not like a normal thread where it goes down as a new thread is posted...it always stays at the top...so it's easy to find.

I was reading Willard Bailey's book (I finished it 2 days ago...sadly) and in there he mentioned Louise Meredith, Jan DeMello...but not yours...I'm going to have to do a Google search...no I'm not creepy...I'm just interested. 

Yes, Linda's dog, Ticket is a Wildfire breeding. I like that line of dogs. As a matter of fact, Linda and Ticket won the BCSA National Specialty's HIT!! They got a score of 200...under the class of Open B. I was SOOO happy for them!

I'm glad I don't have to do that much intensive work!! Even just learning all this new stuff...makes me tired and frustrated.

Steph-How long have you been training with Quiz...to get him with FULL attention, in heel position...etc? I CAN NOT wait to show Maddie...but we've got lots of things to work on.

Maybe today I'll take her out, I've been sick for the past 3 days...and it really sucks.


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

HEHE..I didn't realize her name was a link!! HAHAHA!!


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

CreekviewGoldens said:


> A sticky training journal is where you write down all about what you did today...it's not like a normal thread where it goes down as a new thread is posted...it always stays at the top...so it's easy to find.
> 
> I was reading Willard Bailey's book (I finished it 2 days ago...sadly) and in there he mentioned Louise Meredith, Jan DeMello...but not yours...I'm going to have to do a Google search...no I'm not creepy...I'm just interested.
> 
> ...


OH---- an online training journal as a "sticky" here on the forum. Got it. I was like, "Uh, I know what a training journal is..." but you threw me with the sticky version... and then it was a type o and said "stick training journal" and I was really confused! Haha!

Quiz will be four the end of Dec. and I've been training him since he came home at 7 weeks. Admittedly, once we got into agility, I didn't train as heavily in obedience as I probably should have, but he's from really slow maturing lines so I'm not sure he'd have been ring ready any sooner. I also do A LOT of sports: Hunt tests, agility, dock jumping and obedience, so it's taking longer b/c I'm spreading myself all around and not just focusing on obedience. Still, if you want the 198+ with attention, you can expect to be training for a looooong time before you show! It's worth it, though!

-S


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## hawtee (Nov 1, 2006)

Caryn,
Your not stupid, just learning and what better place to come to that will give you lots of mentors..
I do not mind competeing against ILP dogs at all and when they do beat me I give them a high 5 because they deserve it, they train as hard as I do. One of my favorite ILP's to go against is Minx who is in N. Georgia I am in Fl. but when we cross paths at a trial I make her run harder and she makes me handle better because we have an inside competition between the 2 of us and it is wonderful..We watch each other very carefully and let us know where we went wrong and what we can do lol..


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

Thanks Hawtee...for that advice...I see what everyone means now.

Steph-wow...Linda's students get up there in the scores...we're talking like 197 and 198's. She's a good trainer...but she doesn't know when Maddie will be ready. I would LOVE to get an OTCH...but wherever this little girl takes me...I'll be right there by her side...or she'll be there by my side! hehe...

When are you and Quiz hittin' the ring? You said November...this will be for AKC right?

Good Luck!


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## lgnutah (Feb 26, 2007)

Sorry if someone answered this already (I only read the first few posts) but what is ILP?


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

An ILP...is an *Indefinite Listing Privilege *
*Which enables a purbred dog to compete in AKC events...such as Obedience, Agility, Rally, Tracking, Hound Events, Lurecoursing, Jr.Showmanship, Hunting Tests, Earthdog, and Herding Trials. *

If you have a purebred dog that cannot be registered with the AKC and have a desire to see what your dog can do in real competition, an ILP number is your ticket to the world of AKC events and clubs!

If you think your dog is purebred...then 35 dollars...a cool name for you dog, and some pictures of your dog. The AKC has to approve the dog...they think the dog has to be considered purebred themselves. 

Also, if your dog has purebred parents...or they were registered and you forgot to send in the paperwork...then you can register your dog for the ILP.

I hope that covers everything...!


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## lgnutah (Feb 26, 2007)

I guess I am clueless about people's motives in this scenario.....because if the point is that this is the way someone who has (what they sincerely believe to be) a purebred dog can participate in an AKC event, why would someone bring a dog to an AKC event when they know their dog isn't purebred.
If someone has a mixed breed dog that they believe is talented, isn't there some kind of competition for mixed breed dogs they could participate iin?


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## nrhareiner (Feb 27, 2007)

FlyingQuizini said:


> Oh hell ya! I'm totally goin' for it with him! And I know he can do it if *I* can do it! My personal goal for him is to try and consistently be a 197+... 'cuz my high score with my Whippet was 197.5. I figure, if I can do that with a Whippet, I can do it with Quiz!
> 
> I'm just sayin' that not everybody cares to aim for perfection... and I think that's okay too. I think sometimes when people train with competitive trainers (those who do attention heeling, etc.) like I do with Quiz and like Caryn is doing, it can be easy to start to think that everyone should be that way if they want to show. I have a couple friends who call it "painful" to watch a team qualify with a 170. I guess I'm just really laid back... two each is own..... I wouldn't be happy with a 170, but I won't fault someone who is.
> 
> And while we're on the topic of competitive trainers! HOLY COW did mine give me a workout today!


Just do not do with Quiz what I did with Abby last time out. I messed up and ruined her perfect score. She would have had a 100 in rally if I had not asked her for the advanced menuver instead of the novic. Oh well just think she has the harder menuver down. 

Heidi


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## nrhareiner (Feb 27, 2007)

lgnutah said:


> I guess I am clueless about people's motives in this scenario.....because if the point is that this is the way someone who has (what they sincerely believe to be) a purebred dog can participate in an AKC event, why would someone bring a dog to an AKC event when they know their dog isn't purebred.
> If someone has a mixed breed dog that they believe is talented, isn't there some kind of competition for mixed breed dogs they could participate iin?


There is in some areas but around here there is only AKC events so if you want to compet that is where it must be unless you just want to do some compititions that training schools put on. No real compitition and no way to prove anything.

Again I have no problem with quesionable dogs being allowed to compet. Now if you can really tell it is no way a purebred then that is one thing but if it is close why not. Let them have their fun.

Heidi


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## bizzy (Mar 30, 2007)

There is no mix breed cirict. If you can't compeat in AKC you don't really have a much to do (if you are lucky you have UKC in your area but they arn't as big). So what do you do if you enjoy compeating in obediance or agiligy and happen to have a rescue that is not a purebreed. That is where I am stuck I have a very smart dog but she is a mix in every sence of the word her grandparents were probably mixes but she LOVES to train and compeat like no other dog I have ever owned but all we can do is practice. :-(


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## hawtee (Nov 1, 2006)

Below are 3 venues where you can compete in agility with Mixed breeds, if you have a trial in the area go and check them out..I know there are more out there but I have not competed in those..

http://www.asca.org 
North American Dog Agility Council, Inc. (NADAC) 
Welcome to USDAA


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## Sit Happens (Jul 7, 2007)

hawtee said:


> Below are 3 venues where you can compete in agility with Mixed breeds



And...
United Kennel Club: UKC

Which also offers Obedience!


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

bizzy said:


> There is no mix breed cirict. If you can't compeat in AKC you don't really have a much to do (if you are lucky you have UKC in your area but they arn't as big). So what do you do if you enjoy compeating in obediance or agiligy and happen to have a rescue that is not a purebreed. That is where I am stuck I have a very smart dog but she is a mix in every sence of the word her grandparents were probably mixes but she LOVES to train and compeat like no other dog I have ever owned but all we can do is practice. :-(


There are lots of venues open to mixed breeds:

ASCA - offers both obedience and agility
NADAC - Agility
USDAA - Agility
AMBOR - American Mixed Breed group ---- offers obedience

And apparently, UKC is open to mixed breeds in agility and obedience. I've heard great things about their agility program. Harder to find UKC shows in my area, though.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

nrhareiner said:


> Just do not do with Quiz what I did with Abby last time out. I messed up and ruined her perfect score. She would have had a 100 in rally if I had not asked her for the advanced menuver instead of the novic. Oh well just think she has the harder menuver down.
> 
> Heidi


OKAY... spill it! What did you do? And did it cost you the 10 points for incorrectly performed station, or was it just dinged 3 points for a handling error?


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

CreekviewGoldens said:


> When are you and Quiz hittin' the ring? You said November...this will be for AKC right?
> 
> Good Luck!


Nov. 10th for Top Dog, which doesn't count for anythng other than ranking for the obedience club if our team (two each for Nov, Open and Utility) does well overall. If he holds up there with nice attention, etc., then I'll show him in UKC Obedience over Thanksgiving.


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