# Sudden food aggression in 6 month old!



## vixen (Jul 26, 2008)

Unless you been taking his food bowl away oftain when eating then stroking won't help his food aggresion, as it does'nt simulate what would happen by the alpha animal in the pack. You never see a alpha wolf going up to another and giving it a good grooming before it takes the nice bone away.

what you need to do is sit with him while he is eating and every now and then take the bowl away, with no hesitation, if he growla at you use your body to push him off the food. 

It's so inportant with possesive male goldens they know who is in charge. My own is still food and toy agressive with other dogs, and will occationaly growl at me, but normaly all it take is for me to growl back and he will back off.


----------



## nixietink (Apr 3, 2008)

Carebear0510 said:


> When my puppy was young, we would pet his face and body while he ate so he wouldn't become food aggressive with us. Apparently we didn't pet his nose enough, because today I tried petting his nose while he ate and he froze, snarled and bared his teeth at me. I immediately grabbed his scruff, scolded him, took up his food bowl and hand-fed some of it to him. I tried feeding him and petting him again to see if he would growl while he ate, and he did the same thing again. What can I do to stop it? He's only 6 months old!


You could start hand feeding him at every meal. Or maybe while he is eating walk by and throw something really yummy in his food, and repeat.


----------



## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

nixietink said:


> You could start hand feeding him at every meal. Or maybe while he is eating walk by and throw something really yummy in his food, and repeat.


Yes, please take the approach of teaching him that your presence near the bowl is NOT a threat by walking past and tossing something better. Whenever you take the bowl, you confirm that you ARE a threat and more often that not, you'll see the aggression escalate.

Think of it from the dog's poing of view -- human near my bowl = bowl goes away. Dog then learns he can bite to back the human off. We can say we want to be "alpha" all we want but that doesn't change that the dog has a mouth full of teeth and if he really wants to, can use the letal weapon to do some serious damage. Much better IMO to teach the dog to have a good association with a human near the bowl.

FWIW, I NEVER just stick my hand in my dog's bowl. Can I? Sure. But I view it as pretty pompus of me. When my hand goes in there, it's full of a wad of chicken and I leave the chicken behind. THAT'S the reason I can stick my hand in their food and pet them, etc. I've taught them that me near them when they eat is a good thing.


----------



## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

Regarding Lucky....playing with the kibble and petting as he ate helped cut down the incidences...but didn't completely take the tension away. 

Making a daily habit of spooning yummy stuff in his bowl as he ate really did the trick. I don't do it religiously now...he's pretty relaxed.... but when an opportunity arises i'll slide my hand down there with something really yummy (and aromatic) and drop it in the bowl.


----------



## jaireen (Feb 25, 2008)

taking the bowl from him would only make the problem worse...like what the above posters have said, try hand feeding him and drop treats whenever you pass by him while hes eating his meal, or put your hand in his bowl and add some more goodies....later on he would love to have you around during meal time...but *NEVER EVER* grab his bowl away from him while he eats....


----------



## vixen (Jul 26, 2008)

FlyingQuizini said:


> Yes, please take the approach of teaching him that your presence near the bowl is NOT a threat by walking past and tossing something better. Whenever you take the bowl, you confirm that you ARE a threat and more often that not, you'll see the aggression escalate.
> 
> Think of it from the dog's poing of view -- human near my bowl = bowl goes away. Dog then learns he can bite to back the human off. We can say we want to be "alpha" all we want but that doesn't change that the dog has a mouth full of teeth and if he really wants to, can use the letal weapon to do some serious damage. Much better IMO to teach the dog to have a good association with a human near the bowl.
> 
> FWIW, I NEVER just stick my hand in my dog's bowl. Can I? Sure. But I view it as pretty pompus of me. When my hand goes in there, it's full of a wad of chicken and I leave the chicken behind. THAT'S the reason I can stick my hand in their food and pet them, etc. I've taught them that me near them when they eat is a good thing.


 
So does that mean you think the whole pratice of the of the dog knowing who is the pack leader is wrong.

I realy can't see how just walking past and tossing a nice bit of food into the bowl can work with a hard case of food posaetion all it does is teach the dog that it growls at you when you walk past and then get what it wants iver you walk away or it gets a tasty treat. 

If you start when young by alway having a hand on the bowl and taking the bowl away (not right away just move it slightly out of reach) the dog learns it can share right from day one.

But I will say yes you are right about the dangerous side of this, witch is why you have to nip these things in the bid when young weather they show signs or possetion or not. You also need to know what your dog is telling you, if you don't know what your doing never pust your luck with a dog thats showing agression to you.


----------



## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

The positive method works because instead of feeling the need to guard the food because every time you come near you take it away, they start to relax and trust that you are only going to add something good when you approach.

We are not dogs and dogs are aware of that. Dogs are not wolves, either. They have adapted to live with humans and to understand our forms of communication. We really do not understand enough of the ways that dogs communicate among their packs to try to imitate it. We can try, but it can backfire and even be dangerous.


----------



## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

_*
So does that mean you think the whole pratice of the of the dog knowing who is the pack leader is wrong.

I realy can't see how just walking past and tossing a nice bit of food into the bowl can work with a hard case of food posaetion all it does is teach the dog that it growls at you when you walk past and then get what it wants iver you walk away or it gets a tasty treat.*_

I don't think leadership is wrong, but some of the things people do in the name of "leadership" really feels more like bullying to me -- like thinking I can dive in there and take my bowl from the dog any ol' time I want to just 'cuz I'm the leader. I think leadership is about having basic rules and expectations for the dog and about exchanging reinforcers along the way ---- you, dog, sit for me... I, human, will open the door for you... you, dog, release the toy and sit when I ask while we play tug, I, human, will use my magic thumb to continue playing the game. You, dog, remove yourself from the sofa when I ask, I, human, will continue to grant you the privilage of joining me up there from time to time. 

I've NEVER understood the concept of wanting to reach down and take a dog's bowl away in the name of leadership. Again, that feels like being a bully. If I'm sitting at the table eating and somebody comes by and swipes the dinner plate out from under my nose just 'cuz he's bigger and stronger than I am... I'm gonna take offense to that. And so do the dogs.

The thing is, yeah, sure, maybe the Alpha Wolfe in a pack can walk up and take the food out of the mouth of whoever he wants w/o incident, but the problem is that WE ARE NOT DOGS and we'll NEVER be able to communicate with our dogs as effeectively as other dogs can. It's easy to get hung up in the PACK LEADER idea and feel the need to act toward our dog as another dog might, but it's impossible to get it right with many things. I think we do a better job raising dogs if we aim for clear leadership minus the "pack" mentality. My parents didn't raise me like a dog, but they set clear rules, I was taught what they were and I knew that following them was the key to getting the privilages that were important to me. Not following them LOST PRIVILAGES as opposed to ADDED physical punishment.

I think I turned out pretty darn good. I think my dogs have too!

The idea is that walking past and tossing a treat keeps the dog sub threshold so it avoids the growl in the first place. You find the distance from the dog necesary in the beginning to keep the dog from being uncomfortable enough by your presence to growl.


----------



## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

*WE ARE NOT DOGS and we'll NEVER be able to communicate with our dogs as effeectively as other dogs can.*

BTW, that idea is exactly the Alpha Roll is such a horrible idea! Somewhere along the lines, humans got the idea that it's what we should DO to a dog to show we're "dominant". In reality, a dog will use rolling over like that as a way to diffuse tension... they use it to PREVENT conflict! Two dogs are about to get into a fight... one dog will roll to say UNCLE and prevent incident. So imagine how freakin' confusing it is to our dogs when we force them into the very position that in their mind is supposed to diffuse the situation and prevent conflict?!?


----------



## Carebear0510 (Apr 18, 2008)

Ok, I'll try giving him something yummy while he eats. We noticed it as early as four months and started petting him for about 3 weeks while he ate, thinking that it would help, so now I'll try this. This is really his only vice. He accepts me as pack leader otherwise and doesn't normally bite. Thanks for the help!


----------



## jwcat45 (Dec 3, 2012)

*Food Aggression*

My golden just recently started exhibiting food aggression with my Pom and now my cat. He doesn't seem to be bothered by my presence when he is eating. He seems to tolerate me fine, ive done the hand feeding to prevent food aggression, but now he shows it toward my other furbabies and I don't know why he growls and lunges at them, he and my other dog have always been fed in separate bowls, but they get fed at approxately the same time every day, once in the morning and once at night. Other than this Sampson is the perfect golden boy. I also need to add that I know nothing of his pedigree as he was left as a 4.5 week old puppy in my driveway in the middle of the night, but I have raised him from that time, as of now he is 7 months old. I don't want it to get any worse, I have had all my other pets for 6 plus years and am rather fond of them, what else can I try other than hand feeding, I've done that?


----------



## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

They absolutely need to be fed separately. Is Sampson crate trained? Feed him in his crate or behind a closed door. First and foremost is the safety of the smaller animals.


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I might be too late for this if he's really turfing over his food, but maybe this could help you or other people - especially those with new pups....

I used to do the hand in the bowl, moving the bowl, slipping treats into the bowl while the dogs are eating.... 

Actually - I still slip treats in now, but for the most part this is something I re-evaluated really early and how I managed the situation this time....

When I brought Bertie home, I just put the kibble bowls on the floor for both boys and went on to do my usual thing - except I noticed that Bertie LOVES his food and would nom his food down as soon as possible so he could go running to dive into Jacks' food. 

Even though Jacks is very mild and sweet tempered, I could see his body tensing up. That was the only sign he gave besides gorging himself to protect his food. 

I realized I'd been making a mistake and it was just a matter of time before Bertie pushed Jacks into growling or snapping at him. I switched my routine up for the next 2-3 months. 

I would put Bertie's food down first and then Jacks'. And then I would sit on the floor with Jacks eating on the right side of me where he felt protected and I absolutely would not permit Bertie to cross over to that side of me. 

After Jacks finished his food, I would take both boys over to get treats. 

Bertie learned to finish his food, clean the floor and then flop over for belly rubs from me, ignoring his brother's food...

I'm now sitting at the table nearby, watching the dogs eat - but the good manners is thankfully sticking. Bertie does not lunge into his brother's food when he's done eating his own, and Jacks thankfully hasn't learned to turf over his food. 

Our collie came to us with turfing issues - not so much over kibble, but treats. I imagine this happened while he was at the foster home between the time he was surrendered and the time we adopted him. His way of handling this is taking treats and taking off running to hide while he eats them. I'm sure it was because he was bullied and had things snatched away from him at the foster home. We allow him all the space he wants for treats. 

As far as kibble - if he had the same issue, we would put him in a room by himself or with a gate separating the other animals and their food from him. Don't ever put your dog in the position where he feels he has to defend his turf. 

If he continues to get worse despite you taking those preventive measures, I would take him to the vet to have him checked out for any health issues that could be making him nuts.


----------



## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

If this is a new behavior, perhaps a vet check is in order, to rule out any health motivated problems. Though food guarding is rarely about hunger, it is best to have him checked for internal parasites, or other issues that may be causing him to feel uncomfortable or ill tempered. Also consider whether he is getting enough to eat, if his nutritional needs are not met, it could cause him to be a bit defensive during feeding times.
'Dog to dog' resource guarding is natural and instinctive though not all dogs will do this, and stems from a fear of losing the high value item/food that they have. Safety (prevention and management) is a primary concern, separate your pets when you feed, put the golden or the pom in a room by themself shut the door or confine to a crate to eat. Do not allow the cat to approach. Remove the dishes before releasing the dogs. 
To help prevent the resource guarding from becoming 'generalized' continue (or start) working with your golden to reinforce to him that you are not a threat to his food or toys.
Hand feed part or all of his meals for at least a couple of weeks. Have him earn his food by performing behaviors he knows while you do this: sits, downs, eye contact, leave it. Also get a sit or down before petting, letting him out, putting on the leash to go for a walk. 
Continue conditioning him to your presence when he has his food bowl, make sure there are no other pets around. Add food by tossing treats near his bowl, or dropping them beside the bowl. Do not touch, pet, or interfere with his eating, simply drop the food and move away. This teaches him that you are safe around his food bowl and that he can eat in peace, as he deserves to.
Teach him to 'Trade', when he has a toy, put a treat in front of his nose and say 'drop it' when he does give him the treat, AND give him the toy back. Practice with as many non food items as you can. This teaches him that it is safe to give up an item, and he will get something good AND more often than not get the item back.


----------



## Willow52 (Aug 14, 2009)

Since the food aggression is only targeted at your other pets, I would feed them in seperate
areas. I did this when my daughter's dog was here, Hank has never shown any food aggression but didn't take to DD's dog sticking his head in his bowl. Can't say I blame him!
I had a gate between them during meals.


----------



## Tuco (Jan 3, 2013)

What we have always done with our dogs is 1 or 2 times per meal we will pick up their bowl and put it out of reach for them and make them do Afew simple commands usually entailing

Sit
Gimme paw
Walk over there
Stay until I place down the bowl and say go


You can still stop this behaviour by doing this. My father managed to stop it in an adult tibetan mastiff fairly quickly, one of the most stubborn dominant LGDs in the dog world.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Braccarius (Sep 8, 2008)

I really don't understand the "my dog has food aggression" issue at all. I can honestly say I have no idea how Harley or Miri would react if I started pushing their faces while they were eating. Mostly because I leave them alone when they eat and feed them on opposite sides of the house. I don't bother them... and have never had but more importantly never created an issue. 

Let me paint a picture.... You're out to eat a delectable meal and you are very hungry. Suddenly the manager comes over and starts touching your face just as you put a bite into your mouth. Then, he grabs the back of your neck and drives his hand deep into your potato's and mushes them between his fingers. Do you think you would put up with this? A lot of people here have a very high tolerance expectation on their dog, thankfully they have the most patient of all breeds. Switch the Golden with a Dogo Argentino or a Chow and see how it goes.

Don't pet your dog when he eats. Don't play with his food while he eats. Don't stand over them while they eat. Give them their food and leave them alone. Feed your animals separately. Don't allow children to approach a dog who is eating. If you HAVE to take their food bring the highest value treat you can.


----------



## Tuco (Jan 3, 2013)

Braccarius said:


> I really don't understand the "my dog has food aggression" issue at all. I can honestly say I have no idea how Harley or Miri would react if I started pushing their faces while they were eating. Mostly because I leave them alone when they eat and feed them on opposite sides of the house. I don't bother them... and have never had but more importantly never created an issue.
> 
> Let me paint a picture.... You're out to eat a delectable meal and you are very hungry. Suddenly the manager comes over and starts touching your face just as you put a bite into your mouth. Then, he grabs the back of your neck and drives his hand deep into your potato's and mushes them between his fingers. Do you think you would put up with this? A lot of people here have a very high tolerance expectation on their dog, thankfully they have the most patient of all breeds. Switch the Golden with a Dogo Argentino or a Chow and see how it goes.
> 
> Don't pet your dog when he eats. Don't play with his food while he eats. Don't stand over them while they eat. Give them their food and leave them alone. Feed your animals separately. Don't allow children to approach a dog who is eating. If you HAVE to take their food bring the highest value treat you can.


Although it starts that way it gets worse over time, many dogs with food aggression will growl at you if you come within Afew feet while eating and if it gets bad enough over time, it can even be a full on bite if you come within a yard of them


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Braccarius (Sep 8, 2008)

Tuco said:


> Although it starts that way it gets worse over time, many dogs with food aggression will growl at you if you come within Afew feet while eating and if it gets bad enough over time, it can even be a full on bite if you come within a yard of them
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


How does it get worse over time if you're not consistently bothering the dog? That makes no sense. The dog will only become more reactive if you are present. Again... leave the dog alone while he's eating and you'll never have an issue.


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Braccarius - not sure about your dogs, but mine are absolutely fine eating around each other and you can take anything out of their mouths without any turfing. Kids can sit down and fuss over the dogs while they are eating. The dogs can be inches apart while eating without any turfing. 

Appropriate training and prevention allows for that. 

No need to treat your dog like an aggressive and feral dog if he isn't one.


----------



## Tuco (Jan 3, 2013)

Braccarius said:


> How does it get worse over time if you're not consistently bothering the dog? That makes no sense. The dog will only become more reactive if you are present. Again... leave the dog alone while he's eating and you'll never have an issue.


Something along the lines of protective instinct, I've heard it's even worse if your never around while the dog eats, then one day if you sitting near them they may get very agressive, it's a common practice and an effective practice and I really see absolutely no reason not to do it, the dogs don't get upset, they sit they give paw, then they get right back to eating


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Braccarius (Sep 8, 2008)

Megora said:


> Braccarius - not sure about your dogs, but mine are absolutely fine eating around each other and you can take anything out of their mouths without any turfing. Kids can sit down and fuss over the dogs while they are eating. The dogs can be inches apart while eating without any turfing.
> 
> Appropriate training and prevention allows for that.
> 
> No need to treat your dog like an aggressive and feral dog if he isn't one.


I can take anything I want from my dogs (I've had to take bones that were too small etc. etc.) and I also know that Miri can and has literally taken Harley's food from right under his nose without him making a peep. I have done ZERO training with regards to possessiveness with either of them and neither of them are possessive at all. I am convinced that most possessiveness is a learned response from owners consistently pestering, bothering and irritating their animal.


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Braccarius said:


> I am convinced that most possessiveness is a learned response from owners consistently pestering, bothering and irritating their animal.


If they are constantly "irritating" their animal, then I'm sure.

My comment expressed above is the proofing (moving bowls, putting hands in to slip treats in, handfeeding, grooming, kissing, touching, etc) the dogs while they are eating does not cause food aggression. It is just another layer of training. We began doing this at the direction of our instructor years ago, and this was due to our first two goldens having food aggression issues towards each other and towards us (the handling stopped all that completely). 

Bertie - for the first 2 weeks we had him here - would eat his food with his butt in my lap and with me stroking his head and shoulders while he ate. Jacks was handled the same way when he was a puppy. 

The only issue I've seen at all is between the two dogs - never any stressed directed at us. Primarily because while Jacks trusts our hands won't take his food away, he had no such trust that Bertie wouldn't dive in and piranna the food down. : That was a body stiffening that I noticed and the reason why I went back to placing myself immediately between the two and directly training them to obey me and stay out of each others bowls until one or the other has walked away. 

Dogs shouldn't mind being handled no matter what is going on around them.


----------



## Braccarius (Sep 8, 2008)

Megora said:


> If they are constantly "irritating" their animal, then I'm sure.
> 
> My comment expressed above is the proofing (moving bowls, putting hands in to slip treats in, handfeeding, grooming, kissing, touching, etc) the dogs while they are eating does not cause food aggression. It is just another layer of training. We began doing this at the direction of our instructor years ago, and this was due to our first two goldens having food aggression issues towards each other and towards us (the handling stopped all that completely).
> 
> ...


The way I see it is if I'm hand-feeding treats its the same as hand-feeding food. When they are eating meals I see no need to test the limit of their tolerance. I have had countless people at parks asking why their dogs are snapping and growling at them while eating... I've also seen a dog that would growl while he ate without anyone being in the same room as him. Unequivocally all of these issues were created by the owner and was a direct result of handling or touching the dog while eating (especially on the snout or face) and then reacting to their growling by either removing their food or punishing their reaction.

After Cesar came around this seems even more prevalent because people view growling as a chance to alpha roll and dominate their dog. They don't see that punishing a dog by being physical or taking its food is realizing the animals fear and reinforcing it. Most owners are best off leaving their dog alone.


----------



## jwcat45 (Dec 3, 2012)

Thanks to everyone for the advice. I do need to add that up until 2 weeks ago Sampson was fine with the cat or the Pom being close to him while he ate. He's never really shown any aggression towards me but he recently charged my Pom and mouthed him( I can't say he really bit him because there were no bite marks on Gizmo's skin) and the Pom was no where near him or his food, he was in my living room, probably licking himself when out of nowhere and for no apparent reason Sampson charged and "attacked". I have done the feeding out of my hand and put treats in his bowl, and generally leave him alone while he is eating. He has been to the vet recently because he came down with puppy strangles. The treatment involves steroids, which I believe have caused this sudden change in his behavior during feeding times. I usually feed them at the same time, out of different bowls across the room from each other. Sampson wolfs his food down and then impatiently waits for Gizmo to finish so he can eat his food too. He's such a pig, lol. And yes he is crate trained and house broke and he knows all the commands I've taught him, sit/stay/down/wait/go eat and he knows that the word cookie means a yummy treat for him. Anyway this behavior of late is disturbing. I don't want to just chalk it up to growing pains and certainly don't want it to get any worse. It probably realistically looks more vicious than what it really is, but nevertheless I don't want it to continue. Currently he is fed 2 times a day, in the morning and in the evening. I'm going to add a mid afternoon meal just to rule out him being overly hungry at meal time. As a side note I want to add that he is more food possessive when I mix in some canned food than he is when it's just dry so I'm also only serving canned food as a super special treat from now on. Other than at feeding time, which isn't always hair raising I couldn't ask for a more perfect golden. The only other thing I have even considered was a shock collar, on one hand it would teach him that growling hurts him, if the collars even work, but on the other hand I think that is cruel and unusual punishment, LOL. Also Sampson has never been given a reason to feel threatened by me or anyone while he eats so it has nothing to do with me, his owner aggravating him while he eats. I do not remove the food from him if he growls now I simply tell him to sit and wait and when he has done that to my satisfaction I release him to eat, which is usually only a few seconds at most. So that's it in a nutshell.


----------



## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

From you say, sounds to me the new behavior problems have every thing to do with the steroids. Behavior changes and increased appetite are common side effects. I would think that after the effects of the steroids have worn off, your pup will go back to normal.


----------



## Braccarius (Sep 8, 2008)

Max's Dad said:


> From you say, sounds to me the new behavior problems have every thing to do with the steroids. Behavior changes and increased appetite are common side effects. I would think that after the effects of the steroids have worn off, your pup will go back to normal.


I am in complete agreement with the above. The only other thing I would do in the meantime would be to feed in a room with the door closed until the steroid effect has gone.


----------

