# Feeling overwhelmed!



## Kevinsmom (Jul 26, 2011)

Hi everyone. I'm new here and hoping to get some advice. This will be our first dog and I have read every post for weeks now and think I am even more confused. I live in Kansas city and am having a hard time finding a breeder. I want to find one close by so they can really help give advice and support us with our new puppy. The only puppies I can find are at Surefire golden retrievers http://surefiregoldenretrievers.com/ and they have a puppy available from the Remie and Trooper litter (there are two litters). I think their real name is Surefire Remington Lock & Load and Brassfire give us a chance. Both parents have a lot of titles and Bev Weaver is the breeder. I am a little worried because the puppies don't look like pictures of golden retriever puppies we have seen before. On any litter how do you know if a dog is a purebred? Also I tried to check those health clearances online but got overwhelmed there were words I didn't understand and some I couldn't find. Both parents have the word distichiasis on the eye part of the clearence and I can't find the elbow one on the OFA site. The more I look the more scared and confused I get. I just want a healthy calm golden for our family.Thanks in advance! Dee


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## KatieBlue'sMidnightSky (Feb 22, 2011)

Hi, Welcome to the forum!

I am not an expert on Golden Retrievers, but from what I can see from the website your link took me to is that these goldens are more of the field/hunt/performance dog lines. ?? These types of goldens tend to be more on the reddish side, lighter in bone, and perhaps a bit leggier. 

Perhaps you've seen discussions between the conformation (show) goldens and the field goldens. The conformation goldens tend to have more coat, heavier bone, and not quite as leggy. Apparently, from all the reading I've read, is that there began an unofficial split years back in the look of these different lines. 

This isn't to say you won't see conformation goldens doing field/hunt/performance events, and you will see some darker, lighter boned field-typical goldens in the show ring. There is some cross-over. 

It appears the breeder does all clearances -- perhaps another forum member can comment on this. 

From a novice like me, I think it looks like a reputable breeder who breeds very nice goldens. I hope some other more experienced golden forum members will chime in and help you out. 

Also--take a look at some of the posts from the field, agility, rally, group members. Take a look at the photos of their dogs. You had mentioned that the breeder you are looking at has dogs that don't look like the dogs you have seen on this forum. Perhaps you are not looking in the right place--I've seen goldens on this forum that look closer to this breeder's lines. 

I think both lines are quite beautiful -- just depends on what you want, or what you want to do with your dog. My girl comes from conformation lines, but is considered "moderate"--which means she isn't super heavy in bone, but not light either. A good happy medium for me, since I want to try field, agility, maybe tracking....and if she matures well, conformation. 

Again--I am not an expert on the subject of different lines--only know enough to get myself in trouble. 

Oh-- also, you asked how you know if it's a pure bred--you ask for their AKC registration numbers (which I see is on the website) and go to AKC online and do a search to verify, or I suppose you could ask for a copy of their AKC registration. Also, when you get your pup, you will be given an AKC registration for your puppy with the litter's registration number on it.


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## KatieBlue'sMidnightSky (Feb 22, 2011)

I am not sure you can see it that well in this pic-- but the lighter color golden is mine and she comes from conformation lines. The redder dog, Mic, I believe comes from more of the field lines. The owner wanted a dog that had parents with strong field experience bred into them. Perhaps you can see that Bella is just a bit "chunkier" looking. LOL--not fat, just bigger boned, blockier head. Mic is finer boned and quite agile and springy. 

There is some debate on whether today's heavier boned, heavier coated dogs would be that great in field work with all that extra bone weight and fur that catches brambles and such. 

Hope I am helping and not making things more confusing for you!!


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## Kevinsmom (Jul 26, 2011)

*Feeling overwhelmed! Surefire goldens?*

Thanks for the quick response. I am afraid I'm going to miss out on the puppy if I don't make a decision quickly. You said it looked like all the clearences are done. That's where I get confused. I looked on the site you guys recommended and the mom and dad have distichiasis on their eyes. I googled that and still don't know what that is exactly. Does it matter if both have it? Then the mom has a heart, eye, and hip listed but I can't find the elbows--is that somewhere else or does that really matter since I won't be doing agility or anything?

Here is the mom Orthopedic Foundation for Animals

I didn't mean to offend when I asked about a puppy being purebred I was just curious because I mainly know what goldens look like from tv commericals or movies. Our neighbors have a golden that was lighter colored and a really fluffy puppy so maybe that is what I expect them all to look like. 
Dee


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## GinnyinPA (Oct 31, 2010)

They're adorable! Maybe what is confusing you is that the dogs in the pictures are still very young. 

One consideration: my understanding is that the field type dogs tend to be somewhat higher energy than dogs that aren't bred for it. They need lots of exercise and ideally a chance to use that inbred ability. There are lots of activities that goldens are good at - agility, hunt, freestyle, obedience, etc. Do you have any desire to do more than basic training with your dog?


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Welcome to the forum!! You will find so much useful information here, this board has been a huge blessing in my life. There are so many super knowledgable, kind-hearted people here. The 'search' feature is terrific, don't forget to use it anytime you are wondering about something, almost every topic under the sun has been covered at one time or another.

Please humor me here....* Please, please, DO NOT feel like you have to rush a decision on one of these litters*. It is possible to find a good litter of golden puppies and I promise you that it will be worth the wait. PLEASE do not rush into this. All good things in life are worth the wait and your puppy will be a 12 year committment if you're lucky. *Slow down and take time to choose a dog that you actually want to live with for a decade or more*.

There are plenty of people here who could refer you to someone in the midwest who does a great job on all around goldens. If Kansas City doesn't have a golden retriever club, I guarantee they have a kennel club or obedience club who could give you a good start with referrals. This breeder, Bev, probably could also make suggestions if you talked to her about your specific plans for this puppy. Any good breeder is going to be 100% supportive if you explain to her that you are wanting to learn as much as possible about the breed and simply want to interview a few more people. She should have plenty of suggestions of people for you to call who have been in goldens for many years. And she will be happy to share them if she is worth her salt.

When you say that you want a nice calm family dog, it's a red flag that you probably do not need one of the puppies in these litters. I could be wrong, but a quick glance at these pedigrees on k9 data.com shows that these will probably be *extremely intelligent and extremely high energy working dogs.* They will need a ton of exercise and mental engagement or they will make your life miserable. 

Please slow down and be prepared to wait a bit for the right puppy. You will be so glad you did. Search this forum for suggestions on breeders in your region. With cell phones and e-mail, it's so easy these days to get great support from a responsible breeder from great distances. Whatever you do, don't rush into anything. Trust me, anticipation is half the fun! 

p.s. It doesn't matter that you don't plan to pursue agility or any other hobby other than company on the couch with this dog, you stand a much better chance of having a healthy, happy dog that won't cost you a fortune in the long run if you make sure that the parents of your puppy have had the clearances done for heart, hips, eyes and elbows.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Surefire and brassfire are both kennels breeding very heavily into field lines. I would not get a pup from this litter unless you do more research on goldens from field lines and like what you learn.

BTW, Surefire, Brassfire, Sunfire, Fireside, Firemark - performance golden breeders sure like having the fire


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## Kevinsmom (Jul 26, 2011)

nolefan--I think you are right thank you very much. I felt pressure because I was told I had to put a deposit down on a puppy quickly and there wouldn't be any others around for us. I started to panic and that is not a good time to make a decision. I appreciate all the advice from everyone but still confused on what to look for in clearances. I did read the post it notes in the forum but not sure how flexible all that is. 
Dee


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

Nolefans advise is spot on......*dont *get swept up or feel pressured....there are always good dogs out there. Your puppyy may not be in the next town or even in the same state....but honestly that should not be a deal breaker.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

I have a red, my second, some maybe high energy, some not so much, neither of my were, or are.


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## MGMF (May 13, 2009)

It doesn't look like they do elbows. Elbows are done at the same time as hips. If they were done they would probably have been sent in together. The father Trooper has all his clearances but he has the same Eye rating as the mom. I wouldn't want two dogs who are breed with the same unknown problem. I wouldn't rush into anything. Keep looking.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

http://www.claircrest.com/about_claircrest.htm

http://www.grcgsl.org/

http://hillsidegoldens.net/Whelping_Box.html

Kevinsmom,
check out these websites, they look like a great place to start. I found them in a post a couple years back and two of our most trustworthy forum members here, Pointgold and Tahnee, recommended them at the time. That means a lot to me. Please let us know what how you're doing. 

And seriously, contact these breeders, tell them your story, let them know what you're hoping for with this dog. They will be so helpful and since they have been in goldens for years, they will know who is good and who you should stay away from. Ask them about clearances, the good ones love to educate us and spread the gospel!

Keep us posted on how you're doing!


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Just for fun I started looking thru these websites more closely, and they are such great starting places! The Hillside pages have adorable photos of current litters, and wow are they some adorable puppies! Looks like these folks do everything!

The St. Louis club has a picinic date of August 13th.... how much fun would it be to attend and meet tons of goldens and their people! 

Look, they have two people who work on their puppy referrals:

*SUZANNE WAKEFIELD** via email**[email protected]*
*OR*
*SUE LISTER **via phone **636-338-4531*

OK Kevinsmom! You have tons of good info here! I really can't wait to hear what you find!!!! Have fun! (Can you tell I love a good puppy search !?!?!)


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## Kevinsmom (Jul 26, 2011)

Wow wow wow are you guys amazing! Thank you so much for all the information. I even got some private messages alerting me to some past and potential problems. Really makes me mad the breeder didn't recognize the mismatch in what they had and what my family needed but was just trying to sell a puppy. I now realize how important those health clearance things are and am not going to settle for anything less. Instead of being scared or overwhelmed I am now mad about what some breeders are doing and feel empowered to find a reputable breeder. Thank you for helping me learn!
Dee


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

Try contacting Confetti Goldens. If they don't have puppies, they could refer to someone reputable. They're be the "fluffy blondes" like the commercials that you're thinking of. That is the look of conformation line goldens. You can also try contacting your local Golden Retriever Club.


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## Kevinsmom (Jul 26, 2011)

I just wanted to post an update and tell you how much I appreciate all the help. We are still in the search for a puppy but I have learned so much along the way. It seems most of what has been avilable in the Kansas City area is from field lines and we now know that isn't the way we want to go. I do have some more leads and referrals from this group and the most important thing I have learned is to be patient for the right litter. I wanted to also add here in hopes of helping others. I had checked out another litter from Grindstone goldens Home - Grindstone Goldens and like SureFire golden retrievers they don't seem concerned about breeding dogs without elbow clearences. I have been told that a dog that dosen't pass this test but still competes every weekend in hunting without issues can still be bred. I don't know anything about that but I thought it might help other families because maybe having bad elbows isn't as bad as I first thought. It sure seems hard for me to find ones with that clearence right now. I do think if we are paying the same amount of money we are going to hold out for a litter where both parents have all the health clearences. Thanks again and hopefully we will have puppy news soon!
Dee


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## eeneymeanymineymo (Oct 5, 2009)

Hold out for litters where both parents have hip/elbow/eye & heart clearances!

Elbow clearances are VERY important and are required by the GRCA if the breeder is a member of the Golden Retriever Club Of America. I would not be looking at any liters unless both parents have elbow clearances and a history of cleared elbows in the pedigree.

Here are two breeders you may want to look into:
Julie Speer - Splendid Goldens, Kansas
Splendid Golden Retrievers

Christine Yohe - Heritage Goldens -MO
enter

Good luck to you & hope you find the right breeder & litter!


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## Kevinsmom (Jul 26, 2011)

eeneymeanymineymo-- I think I hit the jackpot! We just came home from a 3 hour visit with Christina Yohe from Heritage Golden Retrievers. I called yesterday and she invited us over today. I kept feeling guilty about all the questions we were asking and time we were spending there but she was so nice. It is like night and day compared to the other breeders we had talked to. She was so patient and you could tell she loved talking about goldens and teaching people. She even took the kids into the agility field to have them run one of her dogs. I think that was the highlight of their summer. It was really nice to see several generations of dogs in one place that would be the grandparents of a puppy we got and to see how even the senior dogs are healthy and happy and still loved running in the field. She wouldn't take a deposit right away and wanted us to go home and think about it. She gave us all the information on the upcoming litter and the websites that you guys recommended to check the health clearances. We did fill out the application as soon as we got home! I guess I just need to catch my breath and make sure this is the one! 
Dee 
(hopefully a puppy owner soon)


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Thanks for updates, I have to admit I wondered how you were doing.... I can't tell you how glad I am to hear that your patience and research is paying off for you! Hooray! Please keep us posted on how things progress... You know we will be anxious to see your puppy pix when you have some to post!


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## hvgoldens4 (Nov 25, 2009)

Christina is a very knowledgable breeder. Best of luck !


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