# Aggression happened again



## Retrievermum (Nov 2, 2019)

My very kind soft natured girl Golden has again been attacking the little dog who came to us when she was a year old and he was just a couple months younger. He is tiny, was a runt and has some strange behaviours sometimes but mostly he is a good natured sweet dog (he has NEVER attacked her nor has any other dog). They are now age 3. They also have a big Labrador older brother who is a big softie and there aren't the problems there, though she has beat him up a couple times too appearing to be from nowhere and unprovoked. 

The first time she attacked the little dog was about a month ago when some food had dropped and she thought it was all hers and he took a tiny piece that had dropped away from her and she went after him for it. I pulled her off him easily enough and she calmed down right away but had left a spot of blood on his neck. He was shaken up but fine and they were best friends again a couple days later. 

As soon as this happened, I booked a vet appointment, started training her a lot more to give her mental exercise and did the 'nothing in life is free' on her which has worked really well. She has been her happy self. The vet appointment was very disappointing, the vet didn't offer any advice and did just a general health check and said she is healthy. I'm going to go to a different vet now. 

Twice since that incident she has attacked the little dog again. Both times have been after waking up and having cuddle time. I thought she might have been jealous but the first time she was snuggling with me and he was at the end of the bed appearing to not be doing anything when suddenly she jumped on him and made a lot of noise pinning him down. She didn't leave a mark and I stopped her in two seconds. She then licked his face and they were best friends again later that day. About a week went by and she has done it again. We weren't even snuggling this time, she just woke up and went for him. I didn't see if he was staring at her or what beforehand. I am sure there must be some communication between them before it happens but it is very subtle if there is. 

So what do I do now? I'm going to request a better check of her at the vet and keep training. They appear to be good friends except for these moments and I'm worried because of the size difference something worse will happen. 

None of them are crate trained. They all sleep on the bed. There have never been problems before. She used to baby the little dog. The little dog is somewhat dominate but he doesn't posture or do anything obvious to her that I can see. She has a dominate nature too with her Labrador brother. She is very sweet, great with kids, incredibly soft, never tore anything up, never chewed on things or my hands, very soft mouth, is a happy girl, from a good breeder. She is sometimes reserved with strangers and does seem to have some nerves with new situations and new people so I think she's a bit insecure. 

Thanks for any advice or stories of similar incidents anyone might share.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

Unfortunately you have a couple dogs that don't always get along well. What do you expect the vet to do about it?


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

Not actually seeing the behaviors this is simply a guess but have seen many times when dogs have territorial issues and usually happens when the owner is present. Most smaller breeds think they are 80 lbs of dog and can cause more trouble than their little size can follow through on. 
When you have 3 in the "pack" they try to establish who is in charge and who owns you  If you have never taken an obedience class it could help you to become a better leader with your pack. It's not about dominance, it's about leadership. Just because you don't see any body language from them prior to the outburst doesn't mean they are not sending signals to each other. 
I love to have my crew sleep with me on the bed as well but because it may be a point of contention (who can get the closest) I would teach them to all sleep on their own beds on the floor or invest in crates. It's more about establishing YOUR ownership of the bed. 
But honestly taking a basic obedience class with one, then repeat the class with the little guy... I'm pretty sure it will resolve your issues. It will also give you a trainer than can watch you and your pups together. Could be they see something you don't and can offer some additional suggestions.


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## Retrievermum (Nov 2, 2019)

She had a litter mate who died from a brain tumour at age 1 so it worries me that this is just appearing and seems out of nowhere that something might be there or perhaps thyroid problems affecting her, though she shows no signs of that.


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## Retrievermum (Nov 2, 2019)

SRW said:


> Unfortunately you have a couple dogs that don't always get along well. What do you expect the vet to do about it?


They do get along though. They are best friends. They cuddle together, they run around together, eat together and there are never any problems. Her attacking him comes out of nowhere and I can't predict when it will happen for this reason. I just want the vet to either help me figure out what tests need to be done or anything like that instead of rush me through and say 'oh she doesn't need that, she looks completely healthy' incase there is a health issue that is causing this.


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## Retrievermum (Nov 2, 2019)

Thanks. The little dog is not mine but unfortunately the adult who should be responsible for him won't be at night. This means that unless the little dog is in with me he scratches on the doors, is very upset and unsettles my dogs who are very chill and relaxed. I think I'm going to have to try crate training with him though and maybe my Golden too.


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## 206076 (Oct 30, 2019)

SRW said:


> Unfortunately you have a couple dogs that don't always get along well. What do you expect the vet to do about it?


I am trying to figure out what you intended with this comment? Piling on somoene who is just looking for help isn't what I thought this forum was for. I would hate to think that a comment like yours would discourage them from addressing an actuall medical issue if that is what is contributing to the behavior.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

SunnysDad said:


> I am trying to figure out what you intended with this comment? Piling on somoene who is just looking for help isn't what I thought this forum was for. I would hate to think that a comment like yours would discourage them from addressing an actuall medical issue if that is what is contributing to the behavior.


The OP has a dog, or two, that occasionally fight over food or territory, not uncommon. She can consult all the vets she wants if she believes there is a medical issue, I did not say she shouldn't. I'm sure there are vets that will diagnose some kind of disorder and then prescribe the dog equivalent of Prozac or Valium.


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## jeffscott947 (Jun 9, 2019)

It is also entirely POSSIBLE that there is something medically bothering the attacker. Not all vets are pill pushers, although granted some are (just like Human doctors and hospitals). (My vet of 10+ years is the opposite and doesn't prescribe un-needed items). If the vet tries to "push" something that you are not happy about..It's our option to THANK THEM, and go in a different direction. I pay $50 for a vet visit (basic checkup). I get my vet and her vet tech assistant, who examines every square inch of the dog (feeling for abnormalities) , while the vet does the actual medical exam. $50 is CHEAP imo, even if only for the peace of mind!

I am in the check out all options camp, and wish the OP well in discovering what is happening, if at all possible. I have 4 dogs and they usually get along and play well. From time to time they will bicker, but nothing serious. I have 1x 8 month old Golden, a 1.75 yr old, a 6 yr old, and a 13.5 yr old. I expect trouble from the 2 younger ones, but so far, no problems. If something different were to happen out of the blue, my vet would be first on the list of people to ask!
Good luck to the OP!


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## 206076 (Oct 30, 2019)

SRW said:


> The OP has a dog, or two, that occasionally fight over food or territory, not uncommon. She can consult all the vets she wants if she believes there is a medical issue, I did not say she shouldn't. I'm sure there are vets that will diagnose some kind of disorder and then prescribe the dog equivalent of Prozac or Valium.


Ok I am sorry but you absolutely did discourage them from going to the vet and did so again. Your comments in here and in the Temper change thread frustrate me. Everyone needs to cool it with these over critical comments when people post issues with their dogs. They need support not a hammer over the head reinforcing that they are having a hard time. And seriosly how do you know there isn't some sort of physical issue that has devoloped? Can you really say 100% that the dog is medically well without seeing the dog? There are alot of assumptions being made. If it is behavior related maybe the vet can recommend a Canine behaviorist in the area. Not everything from a vet is about pills....


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

SunnysDad said:


> Ok I am sorry but you absolutely did discourage them from going to the vet and did so again. Your comments in here and in the Temper change thread frustrate me. Everyone needs to cool it with these over critical comments when people post issues with their dogs. They need support not a hammer over the head reinforcing that they are having a hard time. And seriosly how do you know there isn't some sort of physical issue that has devoloped? Can you really say 100% that the dog is medically well without seeing the dog? There are alot of assumptions being made. If it is behavior related maybe the vet can recommend a Canine behaviorist in the area. Not everything from a vet is about pills....


I am not being critical of the OP or her dogs. She has been to at least one vet already and can go to more if she so chooses. Based on the facts that at least one vet has examined the dog and found no health issues and the behavior described is common to undisciplined dogs, I make the assumption that obedience training is the most likely solution.

I will also make a statement that may anger some but could save others a lot of wasted time and money.

If you go a "Canine behaviorist" you are being conned.


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## 206076 (Oct 30, 2019)

Dog behaviourist - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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