# Training plans for the week of Dec. 4 to 11



## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Have fun and Good luck !!!!!


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Today we are going to obedience group practice.

Tomorrow we are doing a confusion marking drill. Should be interesting.

Tuesday I am meeting up with a friend to work more on blind transitions. We are not doing this in the large group with everyone yet until things are running really smooth. At least one person in my group was skeptical about Scout running blinds when I told him she would be soon. He doesn't know how much work I put in the last year between piles, double t, walking baseball, five-handed casting, PB etc. His dog has failed multiple SH tests and has popping and no-go problems. My friend who is guiding me passed 4/6 for her title and has trained with many pros and her method makes sense to me. I trust her!

As we have time throughout the week we'll make impromptu trips to the park and review 5-handed casting. It has been awhile. Running PB all summer she's been running pretty darn straight like we wanted so no handling.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Scout should do great! You all have put in so much work, you should be proud! I can't wait until we visit your area, maybe we could train together a couple days.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Hoping to get out and scout the fields a bit for a spot to go goose hunting. Lots of Canada's moving about right now so would be nice to get a couple in the freezer.

Then we have a real 180 for Saturday--Butch is in a show. It is my club's booster and Christmas social, so he get to play pretty pony.:


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

This weekend is heavy on advanced obedience for me.

A private sessions yesterday with all 3 dogs (the push is on to figure out how to relieve Casey's stress since as Cheryl, my instructor, says, he is just too darn good not to earn his CDX and UD. We started introducing some stressors in ways he could overcome them.

We worked on my halts for Faelan, started putting the moving stand pieces together, maintaining his focus on me for signals, distractions on signals etc. She could not find fault with his Figure 8, left/right/about turns, fast (and that is saying something LOL) . We also worked on his slow.

With Towhee, we worked left/right/about turns, slow normal and fast - she adored Towhee and merely pointed out that now I have hundreds of hours and thousands of miles of practicing ahead. We started her official moving down and worked the retrieve getting my supporting hand under her chin out of the picture. She had a PERFECT fit dumbbell that I will be ordering (Max 200 7x6). I need to work with the chutes in many places since she seemed confused to see them inside Cheryl's barn. 

Towhee is progressing on her send aways, broad jump and high jump. Her first and 2nd fronts are normally excellent, but the 4 front exercises show she needs work with perseverance.

Last night was a rental with a friend, and we worked serious distractions with the stays, loud noises and music (Faelan especially), toys, heeling, halting, send aways, recalls, finishes, hand signals, drops etc.

Today, while Casey and Faelan went for a hike with my brother, I took Faelan to the local(ish) Health Food/Natural Food store and when I was done shopping we worked in the parking lot; heeling,halts, slows, turns, signals, recalls, playing tug. As well as him being patient while people stopped to chat and compliment 1) his beauty and 2) his training and 3) my lack of corrections - one lady mentioned a fairly local training facility which will not even allow yelling at your dog; second time you are out. I hesitate to believe this entirely though .. some behaviors need to be disciplined in some way.

I may be going to a heeling, pivot and turns workshop in a bit - I have not decided since I have a cold, and am coughing. I find it very annoying when someone goes to a class coughing and/or sneezing so while I am not so bad right now, I am hesitant to annoy the other participants with my cold.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

We did a two gunner organized confusion drill today as seen on Lardy's site. Buckets of bumpers were left at each throw station which proved to be a challenging point for all of the dogs when the last and furthest bumper was thrown. Many had trouble pushing back farther than the last mark and beyond the big white bucket.

Our second set-up was a delayed triple with a blind down the middle for the advanced dogs. It was a double for intermediate, and the beginners in our group just got short singles. I wasn't going to try the delayed triple yet, and since Scout ran a double earlier in the week I chose to run singles. I also practiced sending remotely for these for our first time. She did fine but the first time wanted to turn and look at where I was rather than lock on the mark.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

I am going to work position exercises with Dooley as well as stationary attention and one step attention.

Tag is doing very well on HOLD, so today I started moving away. While he did drop a couple times, I got good corrections in and by the end of the session, I was able to get several feet away. I will continue working for a little distance, then perhaps by Wednesday, start having him move at my side while holding. I will also start using different hold items, but I have to go get a dowel from the hardware store.

Breeze will contiue to work on two sided heeling, and position exercises. If I can get DH to set up my jumps, the weather has been nice enough, I will start doing some more jumping drills with her.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

We have had a flurry of activity in the training department lately. Have been practicing obedience with Slater on days we don't do field. He is getting proficient at heeling, very enthusiastic, keeping his butt in, and we are starting some new things to keep it interesting, bounces in place, nosebridge (what we call "bishop") while heeling, spins while heeling, etc. Will post a video soon.
Anyways, on Thursday the Mid-FL GRC had an informal training day in Williston for participants of the WC/X which was held at the same place on Saturday (yesterday). Usually I have to drive 2+ hours south to attend our field events (and most other club events, near Orlando) so just a half-hour drive is wonderful! Anyways, we had a nice day on Thursday, training with some folks I've not trained with before, all are basically junior level but working on their WC or WCX. Most of the dogs did just fine, most of the handlers need to learn how to set up and send their dogs on marks 
Saturday was our WC/X, the weather cooperated and was beautiful. The test ran smoothly, we had 6 out of 16 passing the X and I think 5 passing the WC out of 11. Slater passed the WC, despite pretty much hating pigeons, and by the time they did the WC the pigeons were pretty beat up. 
One of my golden friends from Miami stayed an extra day and met us today to train. We set up a really nice series, many thanks to the fact that between us we had 5 wingers, and hers were the big ones that really launched the birds. We were on the water, set up a mom-and-pop where the left bird was short and landed behind cover on an island, the right bird was the big launcher that threw it angle back onto the land, so after the dog got out of the water he had to traverse a spread of goose silhouettes and go about 35 yards onto the land. Then you swung all the way back to the left and the go bird shot from the left shore out into the pond, so an angle entry with a lot of muck and cover. Then there was a long shoreline blind under the arc of that mark. I am loath to do mom-and-pop because I think they are lazy, but you see them at tests all the time. Everyone did GREAT -- was very pleased! Fisher was launching into the water on all of his birds -- after getting to do nothing the day before he was ready to go! After we picked up the equipment we put out three blinds that crossed a narrow channel, starting with a square entry, then about a 45º entry, then a very narrow entry down the channel. I squared them up a little big more than that for Slater, but I was very pleased because on the longer/most narrow entry one, he squared the entry, I stopped him in the water (just a narrow channel, probably 15 feet wide), gave and over and he took it and went straight down the channel! Good dog!! 
Fisher did just fine on the first two blinds, then jumped in early on the narrow entry blind. I stopped him and called him back, for Fisher this is typically a recipe for freak out time as he hates to be wrong, hates to be nitpicked, tries to take more water which is the wrong answer, basically we have had some battles on angle entries. I was really happy with him, as when he returned to me after being called back, I took his tab, heeled forward about 3 feet in the direction of the blind, very calmly got him lined up and sent, and he took a beautiful correct angle. Whew!
We train again on Tuesday.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Just popping in to say it was 74 degrees here today :wave:


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Loisiana said:


> Just popping in to say it was 74 degrees here today :wave:


That's mean...How' them hurricanes treating you??? High 40's and sunny here, not bad.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

oh shut up :



Loisiana said:


> Just popping in to say it was 74 degrees here today :wave:


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

Another crazy week for me. 

Monday - Gabby has agility class Art will bring her to class for me, I will meet her there. Home about 9:30PM

Tuesday - Gabby has weave class, home by 8PM might get Teddi out. 

Wednesday, if it is not raining I will get Belle and Teddi out. I will do some obedience training with Teddi. Gabby will get a fun jaunt. If it is raining, I will go watch Quinn do agility class. 

Thursday and/or Friday depending on the weather and if we can get moving FAST when we get home. I would LOVE to get Quinn and Gabby out and throw a few marks, and do some pile/whistle sit work. However the sun sets pretty fast after we get home from work. 

I need to get Gabby out and do some obedience practice so the day we don't do field I hope to do obedience. Again depends on the weather. 

Supposed to be nice next weekend according to the weather at this point. Saturday sunny high 30 hopefully we will get to Darrin's for field training. Sunday we are scheduled to have an agility private lesson. Just Gabby and Quinn.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Loisiana said:


> Just popping in to say it was 74 degrees here today :wave:


But, what did you do training wise?


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Well, we have walking and holding! Tag is doing very well on HOLD, so I used a couple new items and started movement with him holding. I think I will continue to do this for a couple more days, then start force fetch _shhhhhhhh_. I may need your help, so please forgive me if I ask stupid questions.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

A mixed day today.
We went to drop in obedience this morning, and Tito did a great job in terms of doing everything right, but his heart wasn't in it. He was just doing his job, no more. He would have Q'd in both open and utility, but he just sort of slugged thru it.
Then we had agility training this afternoon, our 1/2 hour private lesson. Talk about Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde, he was SILLY SILLY SILLY, running around making up his own courses, doing the teeter over and over, just being a total goof butt. 
Goofy dog!


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## MarieP (Aug 21, 2011)

DNL2448 said:


> Well, we have walking and holding! Tag is doing very well on HOLD, so I used a couple new items and started movement with him holding. I think I will continue to do this for a couple more days, then start force fetch _shhhhhhhh_. I may need your help, so please forgive me if I ask stupid questions.


Don't worry, there are no stupid questions! Especially when talking about FF. 

How is Tag doing with keeping his nose off the ground?


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Well we went training today. Set up a blind in some very tall grass and just beyond it was a canal of water. Again Scout watched my friend place the bumpers and then I sent her. This time was bad as she ran over the bumpers and straight for the water. My friend yelled at her and she stopped and came back to me. I tried a second time to send her but she wanted to muck around so I called her back and she got put up in the kennel while we ran another dog. If she was going to be a pain she wasn't going to get to play--but instead had to listen and watch another dog run.

So after we ran my friend's older dog Scout was brought out again. She got confused somehow--perhaps from the tall grass plus orange bumpers. My friend was hiding nearby in the tall grass and she veered off to say hi then came back. I had to move up on it a little and send her again before she came upon it. Not sure why she quit and came back...again maybe it was the tall grass and orange bumpers. She has a history of running to a pile of white bumpers on short grass. Anyway, after moving up the one time then backing up for the second send she was fine and found it.

Then we put her up and ran the younger lab. Then Scout came out and did some marks, and ran the blind the last time just fine.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

mlopez said:


> Don't worry, there are no stupid questions! Especially when talking about FF.
> 
> How is Tag doing with keeping his nose off the ground?


Thanks Marie!

I'd say he is doing mostly good, keeping his nose off the ground, but there are still times where the smells just overwhelm him and he forgets what he is doing. The pinch is helping a lot.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

GoldenSail said:


> Well we went training today. Set up a blind in some very tall grass and just beyond it was a canal of water. Again Scout watched my friend place the bumpers and then I sent her. This time was bad as she ran over the bumpers and straight for the water.......
> 
> ,,,,tall grass plus orange bumpers.....


Just a couple of comments....
It is poor design to either throw a mark that lands or plant a blind that is located BEFORE water. You are literally teaching the dog to STOP and NOT go in water. Akin to running a mark or blind along the shore but never getting in the water. Yes you may see it in a test -- but it is poor training. We call these contrary blinds (or marks). You never, ever want to tell the dog that if they see water, it's a good idea to stay out of it. In fact we want the opposite. The fact that Scout went in the water is good!!!!!

(About now is when Barb jumps in -- but if the dog is deviating from their path to get in water -- that is one thing -- but if they are going straight to or from a mark or blind and skirt water -- not good)

Now about the orange bumpers in high cover. WHY??????
If it's high cover she will not see white bumpers from a distance. She will however see them if she is on top of them, unlike orange bumpers. It's totally self-defeating to use orange bumpers in high cover with a young dog learning to run blinds. You DON'T want to have a battle at the end of the blind and "box them in" with 50 casts to move the dog 5 feet. In a test you will pick up a bird, which has so much scent it will be like a blinking strobe light to the dog. Use your white bumpers or a stake in high cover. Nothing sucks more than to run a nice blind then completely blow it, shoot the dog's attitude and loose any momentum you may have gained by hacking it out at the end.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Sunrise said:


> But, what did you do training wise?


Go outs and heeling. Now it is in the thirties here and I am inside watching training retrievers alone until the cold front is gone


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

I was going to ask how your weather was today....


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Anney thanks for the input--I am so new to this I don't have a feel for it yet. My next dog will be luckier for sure 

Tonight again was spent at Hunter's Ed. We went over dominant eyes and hands which was good because I am left eye and right hand dominant so I miss a lot when I shoot with my right hand. I tried patching but it isn't for me...so I am trying to go left-handed. Doesn't feel like it will be hard other than I still want to stand like I am right handed.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

Sunny and in the low 40's here. Trained with a few partners today. We did a bunch of singles and Winter's first diversion. As she was coming back from a single, up went the diversion. Oh, way too exciting! She dropped her bumper and charged toward the diversion. I got her stopped before she picked it up and sent her back to the 1st bumper. She delivered that one and then I sent her for the diversion. I put her up and ran her again at the end of the session. This time she just stopped when the diversion went up, holding on to her bumper, and watched the diversion land. "Here" brought her in. She delivered that bumper and then was sent for the diversion. 
Good Girlie! 

I haven't been able to train with the Pro for a couple of weeks but I touched base with him over the week-end. Lately we have been working hard running blinds and blind drills. The Pro suggested that for the next couple of sessions I back off the blind work and run mark heavy training days, maybe adding in a simple blind.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

hahahahah, yep! Spent a lot of time teaching monster boy to stay OUT of the water!
If Lisa's area is like ours, the cover is so high that you can't see the dogs let alone the bumpers!! I'd be marking it with a TALL stake!
Photo taken 2 months ago...."I know there's a bird out here SOMEWHERE???"
Cover in that field is much higher now and we can't use the field at all. It's hard to find useable fields now.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

GoldenSail said:


> Anney thanks for the input--I am so new to this I don't have a feel for it yet. My next dog will be luckier for sure
> 
> Tonight again was spent at Hunter's Ed. We went over dominant eyes and hands which was good because I am left eye and right hand dominant so I miss a lot when I shoot with my right hand. I tried patching but it isn't for me...so I am trying to go left-handed. Doesn't feel like it will be hard other than I still want to stand like I am right handed.


I am in the same boat. Once you get used to the stance it will feel much more natural, and boy did my accuracy improve once I started shooting left-handed. It can be a challenge to find left-handed semi's that are not expensive (at least in my perspective) but an O/U is a great option. I did finally find a nice LH semi shotgun--a Benelli Montrefelto--good fit for a female shooter as well.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

K9-Design said:


> Now about the orange bumpers in high cover. WHY??????
> If it's high cover she will not see white bumpers from a distance. She will however see them if she is on top of them, unlike orange bumpers. It's totally self-defeating to use orange bumpers in high cover with a young dog learning to run blinds. You DON'T want to have a battle at the end of the blind and "box them in" with 50 casts to move the dog 5 feet. In a test you will pick up a bird, which has so much scent it will be like a blinking strobe light to the dog. Use your white bumpers or a stake in high cover. Nothing sucks more than to run a nice blind then completely blow it, shoot the dog's attitude and loose any momentum you may have gained by hacking it out at the end.


Yup, yup, yup! Here is my mantra:

Hard to get to, easy to find. Easy to get to, hard to find...


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

That's great! I love it!



sterregold said:


> Yup, yup, yup! Here is my mantra:
> 
> Hard to get to, easy to find. Easy to get to, hard to find...


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Barb most of the cover was very, very short where we trained. There was a thick patch that the bumpers were in though that it taller than the dog and you cannot see them once they are in it.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I'm just going to throw this out as food for thought.
With Tito (and this might just be specific to the dog), Dan has told me NOT to do that on a regular basis. 
We've had a problem with instincts kicking in. Birds are found in cover, period. Dogs somehow *know* this. So if there's cover nearby, Tito is going to head for it on a blind. Cover = birds.
We've had to teach him that sometimes the bird is in cover, but sometimes it's not. I think I posted about that after one of our weekly lessons. So I usually don't put blinds in a patch of heavier cover than the rest of the field. If the whole field is heavy cover, that's different. 
Again, that might just be addressing a specific issue that Tito has had, but I thought I'd mention it.




GoldenSail said:


> Barb most of the cover was very, very short where we trained. There was a thick patch that the bumpers were in though that it taller than the dog and you cannot see them once they are in it.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> I'm just going to throw this out as food for thought.
> With Tito (and this might just be specific to the dog), Dan has told me NOT to do that on a regular basis.
> We've had a problem with instincts kicking in. Birds are found in cover, period. Dogs somehow *know* this. So if there's cover nearby, Tito is going to head for it on a blind. Cover = birds.
> We've had to teach him that sometimes the bird is in cover, but sometimes it's not. I think I posted about that after one of our weekly lessons. So I usually don't put blinds in a patch of heavier cover than the rest of the field. If the whole field is heavy cover, that's different.
> Again, that might just be addressing a specific issue that Tito has had, but I thought I'd mention it.


Hi Barb, I don't think it's just Tito. I have seen this with Fisher big time, and have done a lot of blinds that either run by cover but DON'T go in, run THROUGH cover but come out the other side, or I DO put the blind in cover but keep a very tight rein and a quick whistle on him while he's in the cover. We ran into some tests where they DID put the blind in cover and I learned my lesson there. I completely lost control of the dog. After that we did more of the "easy to get to, hard to find" where it was no cover going into heavy cover, and I had my whistle on my mouth and my finger on the transmitter. If he blew me off on a whistle he got a correction. 
Balance is key. With any factor, whether it be water, cover, hills, a ditch, you name it -- it's always a smart default to put your mark or blind well BEYOND it -- so the dog looks at the factor and says "Yep I'm gonna go straight through it and not expect to stop any time soon." Of course sometimes practice where the bird is before, in, or right on the back edge, but the majority should be well beyond so the dog doesn't think the factor is the deciding point of where the bird "should" be.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

very well said, thanks.



K9-Design said:


> Hi Barb, I don't think it's just Tito. I have seen this with Fisher big time, and have done a lot of blinds that either run by cover but DON'T go in, run THROUGH cover but come out the other side, or I DO put the blind in cover but keep a very tight rein and a quick whistle on him while he's in the cover. We ran into some tests where they DID put the blind in cover and I learned my lesson there. I completely lost control of the dog. After that we did more of the "easy to get to, hard to find" where it was no cover going into heavy cover, and I had my whistle on my mouth and my finger on the transmitter. If he blew me off on a whistle he got a correction.
> Balance is key. With any factor, whether it be water, cover, hills, a ditch, you name it -- it's always a smart default to put your mark or blind well BEYOND it -- so the dog looks at the factor and says "Yep I'm gonna go straight through it and not expect to stop any time soon." Of course sometimes practice where the bird is before, in, or right on the back edge, but the majority should be well beyond so the dog doesn't think the factor is the deciding point of where the bird "should" be.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Speaking of balance in training...
This is something that Dan talked about last time we were there. 
Tito is out of balance right now. We've been doing a lot of blinds, so his doubles have suffered.
Dan says the teeter has swung so that the blinds are high (good) and the memory is low (bad). We're out of balance. When we practice more memory work, I fully expect our blinds will suffer, and the teeter will swing the other way, but not as far. It will continue to swing up and down, but less each time, until finally both ends are even and it's completely level. 
That's what we're trying to accomplish with balanced training.
If that made any sense.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Belated Training Plans for the week

Last night (Tues) traffic prevented me from making it to Towhee's obedience class, so we worked on heeling, front & finishes at home.

Tonight, I am hoping to make the agility class, but it is again raining so I might get hung up in traffic again – sigh, wouldn't you think 1 ½ hours of highway driving could see me through the 38 miles of my commute? – but hopefully all 3 dogs will get to go.

Tomorrow (Thu), I will most likely not be going to drop in obedience, but rather to the Truck Stop for some distraction work. I may also do a few whistle drills with Faelan since noise at the Truck Stop is not an issue LOL and they love watching the dogs being worked there – heck, they'll even sound their horns when I ask 

Friday I am hoping to set up a few simple agility courses in my backyard and run the dogs through them.

Saturday I have a food run down to the coast, where I will pick up the dogs' meals for the next month or so; about 125# of food. I usually take a dog or two and work some at the Weigh Station the Food Delivery comes to. Following that, Faelan, Towhee & I (possibly Casey as well) will head towards my agility clubs' meeting, run thrus and earn some more volunteer hours. If I hear what is being served at my Obedience Club's party in time (I have a restricted diet), I may then head off to the annual party there with one or more dogs.

Sunday, Towhee and Faelan are entered in Rally Run Thrus – it the event does not fill, I may also bring Casey so he can play too 

Sunday in the afternoon, I may head to a park and 1) work some obedience and 2) practice some field drills.

My focal points are:
- My Footwork for halts – I need to exaggerate my brake step for the next few weeks
- Towhee and the retrieve. We have her taking a few steps towards me with the leash supporting her chin and the hold.
- Faelan and Towhee on the Go Outs, turn & sits, and wait
- Start Scent Discrimination with Faelan
- Fronts. Finishes. Delivery of duck vs delivery of dumbbell for Faelan (eg: no auto finishing)

And possibly taking a pheasant from the freezer and seeing if I can get a nice picture of Ms Towhee for the candid shots of the GR News (also have to check the deadline ) She was originally supposed to be in a Clan photo, but life interrupted. Casey and Faelan are both in the GRF shots….


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

My training partner came out today, and we did some simple hand-thrown doubles for Tito. 
He has improved quite a bit, although he must have read the forum this morning because on one of the doubles he headed for the cover on our berm (where actually a wild pheasant does hang out) rather than for the memory bird. HUH?? What you doin' dog???? My partner helped him out. We ran 2 more doubles, and he did really well with them. He's starting to remember the point of multiples. 
Finished up with a couple nice long singles, which he stepped on. The problem is for sure not his marking ability.
These were, btw, fresh killed pheasants that my training partner had shot while hunting right before he came here, which made them rather exciting!


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## MarieP (Aug 21, 2011)

This morning was frustrating. I've been really focused on school this week, but I wanted to take Riot out early to get some training in before I hit the books. I just wanted to work on some heeling with attention, fronts, and finishes. Heeling was pretty much a huge bust. I couldn't get any attention for more than two steps, even with food in his face. I couldn't even really get attention just sitting at heel either. 

I feel like his heeling is suffering because of the field work. When we are in the field, Riot needs to look out in the field, and I don't enforce heeling with his head up. I'm worried. Maybe it was just a bad day. But I would rather get an OTCH (or even a UD) than a JH. Should I put up the bumpers for a little bit?


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

FWIW - I did. Field now will take a back seat to obedience and agility _UNTIL_ I finish my goals in those sports. While Faelan has always been in the ribbons in obedience and agility (when he qualifies in agility) so far, his heeling is not what I am accustomed to and his fronts, well let's say he suffers a bit of confusion between delivering a bird and a dumbbell.

So, field training has been (temporarily) relegated to taking a less important focus.

Only you can decide what means most to you; I know I want my dogs to score high, look great and enjoy themselves in obedience and agility both, and if I am unhappy with their performance, I want the time and energy to focus on helping both Faelan and Towhee be the very best they can be. 



mlopez said:


> This morning was frustrating. I've been really focused on school this week, but I wanted to take Riot out early to get some training in before I hit the books. I just wanted to work on some heeling with attention, fronts, and finishes. Heeling was pretty much a huge bust. I couldn't get any attention for more than two steps, even with food in his face. I couldn't even really get attention just sitting at heel either.
> 
> I feel like his heeling is suffering because of the field work. When we are in the field, Riot needs to look out in the field, and I don't enforce heeling with his head up. I'm worried. Maybe it was just a bad day. But I would rather get an OTCH (or even a UD) than a JH. Should I put up the bumpers for a little bit?


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

mlopez said:


> Should I put up the bumpers for a little bit?


It is your choice but I would say no. If all you want is JH get that first--it is easier. I know where you are coming from though and it is tough. I almost was going to stop and focus on obedience because I can train at home and it takes less time and cost less money...but I have put a lot of work into Scout at this point and if she were to choose one over the other it would be field by a large margin.

I would suggest you consider using different word for field heel vs obedience heel. Ok, I know some of it is contextual and dogs can get past that but it is better for me personally because than I don't have to feel like I am lowering my standards for heeling when I am field training and she is not focused on me.

My own obedience training has been taking a back seat because field work is so time consuming...but it is also more novel and very fun and challenging. With obedience I did a lot of training on my own when she was younger with just wanting the behavior instead of wanting a clean and perfect behavior (I have only trained a CD once before and that was multiple attempts). I was referred to an instructor who didn't click well with me but I eventually found my new instructor and now really good friend (she has flatties and we field train together too). I've had to go back and retrain a lot of things to make the behavior cleaner which has been frustrating at times and really slowed things down on top of field training too. All this while people keep telling me she is still a young dog.

Anyway, the point I am trying to get across is that of slowing down and taking your time. Train each little piece separately and don't set a date of when you want X to happen. Let it happen. I have a friend who got a CD on her first lab when she was young (less than 18 months) but now that she has her second dog has decided that she wants to focus on training all the way to UD and on perfection rather than getting the titles sooner. I also have another friend who took her 4-5 year old bitch and took up obedience and went from CD to UD in one year and is working on UDX and is OTCH pointed. BTW she hadn't trained in obedience for years and never to that level before. She did a similar thing with one of her dogs now passed....started training at an older age and eventually got a MACH.

So I think you should train both but let your dog set the pace for training. Continue working on your heel and when it comes together you'll be golden. Your dog is young and you have lots and lots of time to achieve titles. I am inspired too by Jagger who got his MH at 9--I sure hope I can enjoy training and showing my dog at 9 years old too! Gives me plenty of time.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

GoldenSail said:


> It is your choice but I would say no. If all you want is JH get that first--it is easier. I know where you are coming from though and it is tough. I almost was going to stop and focus on obedience because I can train at home and it takes less time and cost less money...but I have put a lot of work into Scout at this point and if she were to choose one over the other it would be field by a large margin.
> 
> I would suggest you consider using different word for field heel vs obedience heel. Ok, I know some of it is contextual and dogs can get past that but it is better for me personally because than I don't have to feel like I am lowering my standards for heeling when I am field training and she is not focused on me.
> 
> ...


Good post -- and do you mean Jagger, Fisher's brother? They won't be nine until April  

Anyways Maria, I don't think field is undermining your obedience other than taking time away from training. There really should be zero crossover as far as training cues, behaviors, etc. In the two venues you will probably use identical words to mean completely opposite behaviors (ie. heel) but if you are consistent there shouldn't be any trouble. You don't heel in field work with food, and a set-up in heel position, and making eye contact with your dog, and all that. You do in obedience. It's a completely different picture for the dog. They are so situational and poor generalizers that it makes it easy for them to tell the difference. Are you taking obedience lessons with someone? (just curious)


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

K9-Design said:


> Good post -- and do you mean Jagger, Fisher's brother? They won't be nine until April


Yes I believe it is I guess they said 'almost 9' in the post but my memory was thinking 9. Even if he isn't 9 until April I am sure he will probably still be field training then as will Fisher  I have seen stuff where people have got JH at 10 or 11 too! Which is very cool.


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## MarieP (Aug 21, 2011)

GoldenSail said:


> It is your choice but I would say no. If all you want is JH get that first--it is easier. I know where you are coming from though and it is tough. I almost was going to stop and focus on obedience because I can train at home and it takes less time and cost less money...but I have put a lot of work into Scout at this point and if she were to choose one over the other it would be field by a large margin.
> 
> Anyway, the point I am trying to get across is that of slowing down and taking your time. Train each little piece separately and don't set a date of when you want X to happen. Let it happen.
> 
> So I think you should train both but let your dog set the pace for training. Continue working on your heel and when it comes together you'll be golden. Your dog is young and you have lots and lots of time to achieve titles. I am inspired too by Jagger who got his MH at 9--I sure hope I can enjoy training and showing my dog at 9 years old too! Gives me plenty of time.


The problem is that I don't want just a JH. I want a MH and an AFC! Haha! Ok, kind of joking about the AFC, but I have really high goals. I always have. But I also want an OTCH. Its just my personality... 

I think you are right. We have plenty of time. I think I was just frustrated and he was hiped up. And I'm stressed with final exams. Probably not the best combination. I'm going to take a break from real training until after exams. We will just go have some fun for a bit. 





K9-Design said:


> I don't think field is undermining your obedience other than taking time away from training. There really should be zero crossover as far as training cues, behaviors, etc. In the two venues you will probably use identical words to mean completely opposite behaviors (ie. heel) but if you are consistent there shouldn't be any trouble. You don't heel in field work with food, and a set-up in heel position, and making eye contact with your dog, and all that. You do in obedience. It's a completely different picture for the dog. They are so situational and poor generalizers that it makes it easy for them to tell the difference. Are you taking obedience lessons with someone? (just curious)


Thanks Anney. You're right. It is a time thing. I wish I had time to do all the things I want to do! I actually haven't done a formal lesson with Riot yet. I'm going to have a few private lessons with Connie Cleveland after Christmas (my parents' Christmas present!). Considering that she has dogs with OTCH, AFC, and FCs, I'm sure she will be able to set me on the right path.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Marie I know how you feel, sometimes I get really hyped up thinking I'm so behind with the dogs' training and I don't know what the heck I'm doing and just put myself into a weird panic over it! ***! haha
Don't worry, and usually the best remedy for it is to say "screw it" and go take the dog for a walk. No stress for anyone


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

mlopez said:


> The problem is that I don't want just a JH. I want a MH and an AFC! Haha! Ok, kind of joking about the AFC, but I have really high goals. I always have. But I also want an OTCH. Its just my personality...
> 
> I think you are right. We have plenty of time. I think I was just frustrated and he was hiped up. And I'm stressed with final exams. Probably not the best combination. I'm going to take a break from real training until after exams. We will just go have some fun for a bit.
> 
> ...


If you really want a MH I would concentrate on that first. It really is the more complex to train so it is important to get a sound foundation for it early. Admittedly, I am not a high end obedience person--I just find it boring. (I am happy to qualify and just get the title to get points for VC etc!) However, you really are priming them for complex learning with the advanced field training. And personally, these are retrievers, and that is the trait that is being neglected in too many breedings now IMHO. Upper end working titles mean a lot more to me than high end obed titles, which I see more as a nice bonus--they show trainability, but not birdiness, courage and marking ability.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

So Hunter's Ed last night watched a video on wolves with tips on how to protect your dog...so I paid very close attention as I do not want to feed Scout to the wolves! (Although I don't think we will hunt in wolf territory this year). Apparently though they are more likely to approach if you have a dog with you because they want to defend their territory. I would love to see a wolf in the wild, but I like my dog very much as well.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

mlopez said:


> The problem is that I don't want just a JH. I want a MH and an AFC! Haha! Ok, kind of joking about the AFC, but I have really high goals. I always have. But I also want an OTCH. Its just my personality...


Honestly who doesn't want those things?  I would love to too! I personally have adopted the idea that I will put forth my best effort in training and I won't show until we are ready and I will let Scout take me from there. Believe me though, it took me a long time to get there. As officially my first dog I recognize that I have and will make mistakes with her and that my next dog will be better off (sorry Scout) because of what I learned with Scout (although I will probably make new mistakes with my next one).

You really need to decide how you are going to approach it. Would you abandon all of you training to pursue an OTCH--or would you at least finish a JH to complement it?


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

Okay my two cents now... Talk to Connie or someone else that has those same titles on multiple dogs. There are crossovers that you will need to work through when training for them all. Pat has trained multiple OTCH MACH MH and one VCCH. When her and I talked about it she said yes you can do them all but expect some confusion from time to time..I know she trains her through it, depending on seasons and where they are. I will see her this weekend but her two goldens have MACH2,MH and TDX the other MACH,MH?, TDX.. and both are now working on their OTCH..and her 10year old went out and got his CT ..I say go for it!


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## MarieP (Aug 21, 2011)

Titan1 said:


> Okay my two cents now... Talk to Connie or someone else that has those same titles on multiple dogs. There are crossovers that you will need to work through when training for them all. Pat has trained multiple OTCH MACH MH and one VCCH. When her and I talked about it she said yes you can do them all but expect some confusion from time to time..I know she trains her through it, depending on seasons and where they are. I will see her this weekend but her two goldens have MACH2,MH and TDX the other MACH,MH?, TDX.. and both are now working on their OTCH..and her 10year old went out and got his CT ..I say go for it!


Thanks for the encouragement everyone!!! I guess I will just have to work through the issues that come up. I have a feeling that I am a little bit out of balance right now, and I need to remind Riot that we are a versatile team.  But today, I just let him be silly. We went to the park, and he ran and jumped through all the mud puddles, multiple times. And now he is snoozing on the couch next to me (don't tell my husband!) and filling the whole house with that wonderful wet dog smell. It's been a great afternoon!


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

I know the week is almost over... but my training plans are run around like a mad woman and pack, pack and pack some more.... Groom Titan...well feet anyway..lol.
Pick up the rental and guess what...pack some more and spend the next three days driving,driving... and you guessed it driving some more.. Hopefully my torn muscles will hang in there for 4 days of showing and this year I am hoping we don;t leave anything on the table.. Still stewing over "MY" dumb mistake last year.....
I am hoping to meet some forum members and I finally get to meet Jodie in person after talking the last 2 years..Wish us luck!


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Titan1 said:


> I know the week is almost over... but my training plans are run around like a mad woman and pack, pack and pack some more.... Groom Titan...well feet anyway..lol.
> Pick up the rental and guess what...pack some more and spend the next three days driving,driving... and you guessed it driving some more.. Hopefully my torn muscles will hang in there for 4 days of showing and this year I am hoping we don;t leave anything on the table.. Still stewing over "MY" dumb mistake last year.....
> I am hoping to meet some forum members and I finally get to meet Jodie in person after talking the last 2 years..Wish us luck!


Best of luck to you & Titan  And feel better!! 

Say hi to Jodie for me? And hey, just heard there's a little boyo with high drive if she's ready for a new challenge!!


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

mlopez said:


> Thanks for the encouragement everyone!!! I guess I will just have to work through the issues that come up. I have a feeling that I am a little bit out of balance right now, and I need to remind Riot that we are a versatile team.  But today, I just let him be silly. We went to the park, and he ran and jumped through all the mud puddles, multiple times. And now he is snoozing on the couch next to me (don't tell my husband!) and filling the whole house with that wonderful wet dog smell. It's been a great afternoon!


 
Dirty, muddy dogs are good


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Best of luck Michelle! We'll be waiting to hear how you do!


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

Sunrise said:


> Best of luck to you & Titan  And feel better!!
> 
> Say hi to Jodie for me? And hey, just heard there's a little boyo with high drive if she's ready for a new challenge!!


????? Do tell.... what boy???? spill the beans..


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Sunrise said:


> Best of luck to you & Titan  And feel better!!
> 
> Say hi to Jodie for me? And hey, just heard there's a little boyo with high drive if she's ready for a new challenge!!


 

:--appalled: 

A NEW challenge?

:eyecrazy::help!:


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I have spoken to several people who have high titles in multiple venues (OTCH/MACH, OTCH/MH, or OTCH/MACH/MH)

They all have said pretty much the same thing. If you want upper level titles in more than one venue, it is certainly possible, BUT it is unlikely that you/your dog will reach their full potential in those areas as much as they would if the energy was more focused on one specific area. So they say it really comes down to priorities and preferences...do well in multiple areas or do even better in just one. Obviously these people are doing well, but in the past the OTCH (or MACH, or MH, depending on the circumstance), would have really been considered just the starting point for them, and the "real" work was spent on going past that, into national rankings, Invitationals, etc. A lot of people like being able to compete in different areas and get lots of high titles. Others I've talked to did not like the dip they found in their performance or rankings, and decided to keep the focus really on one area and maybe keep another area for "playing around" in, but not as really serious top training.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Loisiana said:


> I have spoken to several people who have high titles in multiple venues (OTCH/MACH, OTCH/MH, or OTCH/MACH/MH)
> 
> They all have said pretty much the same thing. If you want upper level titles in more than one venue, it is certainly possible, BUT it is unlikely that you/your dog will reach their full potential in those areas as much as they would if the energy was more focused on one specific area. So they say it really comes down to priorities and preferences...do well in multiple areas or do even better in just one. Obviously these people are doing well, but in the past the OTCH (or MACH, or MH, depending on the circumstance), would have really been considered just the starting point for them, and the "real" work was spent on going past that, into national rankings, Invitationals, etc. A lot of people like being able to compete in different areas and get lots of high titles. Others I've talked to did not like the dip they found in their performance or rankings, and decided to keep the focus really on one area and maybe keep another area for "playing around" in, but not as really serious top training.


This makes sense. I also think there's a difference between someone who "loves agility" or "loves obedience" and someone who just likes training dogs. For the latter I think it's more rewarding to have a broader base of training experiences than to spend all their time honing on one venue. Different strokes and all that.


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