# Stacking Keisel



## Bentleysmom (Aug 11, 2012)

I know nothing on this subject but, I give him a 10! Good luck, I look forward to following your progress


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

You have him stacked decent, but his rear legs need to come back a little. His hocks need to be perpendicular to the ground. He has good reach, needs a little more drive from what I am seeing in photos. Looks like his front might be stronger than his rear. Good stop IMO, but I would like to see more length of neck.

What did Candi think of him? Did they evaluate him? Did they tell you what the pros and cons were of him?

He is a cutie for sure! Enter some puppy matches... Tons of fun and relaxed setting!


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

I don't agree that if you were serious you needed to co-own. Many breeders will not let a pick puppy go on full registration without a co-own agreement, but not having it will not prevent him from doing well in conformation, IMO. It will probably be less dramatic for you, since co-owns can be complicated at times. 

I am a relative newbie to conformation, with Jack as my first conformation dog, but I have a little bit of experience. It is hard to stack puppies. I would suggest something other than the plastic lids because there is not enough room for his back feet to be placed correctly at this point, and obviously it will get worse as he grows. When I have practiced with my puppies I try to get them to pull themselves up and over their front, usually food held out farther away from them and brought back quickly after they are doing what you want (if that makes any sense?) helps. I also will hold their tail and very slightly pull straight back on it to cause them to pull forward.


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## Jen & Brew (Oct 11, 2012)

You will do just fine! He's awesome


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## TheZ's (Jun 13, 2011)

Don't know anything about stacking or showing but he's a very good looking pup. I like his color and if he darkens up to the shade of his ears, as they often do, he'll be a beautiful color. Good luck!


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## Roushbabe (Feb 20, 2011)

kfayard said:


> You have him stacked decent, but his rear legs need to come back a little. His hocks need to be perpendicular to the ground. He has good reach, needs a little more drive from what I am seeing in photos. Looks like his front might be stronger than his rear. Good stop IMO, but I would like to see more length of neck.
> 
> What did Candi think of him? Did they evaluate him? Did they tell you what the pros and cons were of him?
> 
> He is a cutie for sure! Enter some puppy matches... Tons of fun and relaxed setting!


What would produce a little more drive? Yes Candi loved him - she evaluated all the females and males. The only negative thing she really said about him was his ears and that they are a little long, but he had a good ear set. Great front, Y back, good tail set, has pearls, great angles and great bone in him. I don't really remember much more than that because I'm still new at learning all the terms lol. I'm sure she said a few things were just okay but all in all he's was the best of all the males. 

Where can I find puppy matches? That sounds like a lot of fun! Is there a minimum age requirement? Thank you for your criticism!! 



goldenjackpuppy said:


> I don't agree that if you were serious you needed to co-own. Many breeders will not let a pick puppy go on full registration without a co-own agreement, but not having it will not prevent him from doing well in conformation, IMO. It will probably be less dramatic for you, since co-owns can be complicated at times.
> 
> I am a relative newbie to conformation, with Jack as my first conformation dog, but I have a little bit of experience. It is hard to stack puppies. I would suggest something other than the plastic lids because there is not enough room for his back feet to be placed correctly at this point, and obviously it will get worse as he grows. When I have practiced with my puppies I try to get them to pull themselves up and over their front, usually food held out farther away from them and brought back quickly after they are doing what you want (if that makes any sense?) helps. I also will hold their tail and very slightly pull straight back on it to cause them to pull forward.


I will have to agree with you on how hard it is to stack puppies lol. If i didn't have enough treats in my hands then he would want to jump down and play lol. I will have to try and get something better for him to stand on because he will grow sooner than i think. I think I know what you mean by getting them to pull themselves up onto the table, just not 100% sure. Maybe there are some YouTube videos I can search to help. I'll try the tail trick as well! Thank you!!


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

He is cute! I think you will have fun with him! Like others have said, his rear feet need to be further back. Nice muzzle and face. The most important part is to have fun!! 


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## goldhaven (Sep 3, 2009)

I don't understand, just because he isn't co-owned, does that mean that your breeder won't help you to show him?
Why would it be harder for a novice than a dog co-owned by a pro?

By the way, he is beautiful, or should I say handsome. Great photos. I especially like the one of him trotting along side the pool with his head up and someone holding a treat for him.


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## Roushbabe (Feb 20, 2011)

goldhaven said:


> I don't understand, just because he isn't co-owned, does that mean that your breeder won't help you to show him?
> Why would it be harder for a novice than a dog co-owned by a pro?
> 
> By the way, he is beautiful, or should I say handsome. Great photos. I especially like the one of him trotting along side the pool with his head up and someone holding a treat for him.


I was told that when you get into the 'big shows' that if he is not co-owned you can't have anyone but the owner or breeder show him (so that only leaves two and my breeder doesn't handle her dogs at the shows). I might have misunderstood when I heard this so correct me if I'm wrong and that will be good news! Again, I'm new at this and there is a lot of reading that I'm doing to be more knowledgeable. Also, don't get me wrong - my breeder is 100% okay with helping me as far as teaching me the ropes and giving me good advice - she just doesn't do the showing herself. 

Thank you for your kind words! That is me holding the treat running backwards. My boyfriend taking the photos kept saying 'I can't wait to watch you fall butt first into the pool' lol not funny!!


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## Jen & Brew (Oct 11, 2012)

If the breeder really wanted too I'm sure she could show the dog in bred by class.


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

You or the breeder does not have to show him in big shows. You can hire a handler, if you want!


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## Jen & Brew (Oct 11, 2012)

Or you can handle him yourself!! It's really easy, go to a couple shows and watch the pro's, take note of the judges hand gestures and how the handlers react to them, how they move the dogs. It's fun, very competitive and worth every min!!!


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

I would not agree that handling dogs is very easy. Grooming, ring procedure and making your dog look their best in the ring are not skills that people just have. It takes a lot of time to learn. I'm on my third show dog and still feel very much like a novice in the ring with handlers and more experienced exhibitors. 

I would go to handling classes when he is older before stepping into a ring at an AKC show. Matches are also the way to learn without the pressure of an actual show. Certainly judges have limited expectations for puppies, but all judges are not nice to novice handlers. You are expected to understand ring procedure and it's really not fun when a judge is irritated with you - I know this from experience. I have found it's more fun the less nervous I am, and the way to be more confident is to know what to expect. It's much more fun for your puppy when you are having fun too. That's why handling classes and matches are great for new exhibitors


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## Roushbabe (Feb 20, 2011)

Thank you all for your input.. I'll have to look into these matches and handling classes for sure. I'll keep you all updated on my progress for sure


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

very cute puppy!! Have lots of fun with him!
I agree with Michelle, handling your own dogs is not easy. But in all fairness, Jen is in Canada, and CKC is very different from AKC.
I would suggest entering Keisel in some UKC shows for practice. It's very relaxed, lots of fun, and great experience. Sometimes they offer puppy classes, too. Check their upcoming events on their website, www.ukcdogs.com I believe.


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## KatieBlue'sMidnightSky (Feb 22, 2011)

Keisel is sooo adorable!! You wrote in one of your responses: "*Great front, Y back, good tail set, has pearls, great angles and great bone in him." *What are pearls and what is a Y back? I've been learning about puppy conformation, but I've never heard those terms. If you don't know...can someone else fill me in?

Thanks!!


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

I think "pearls" may mean he has a complete set of boy parts. I assumed Y was a typo, but perhaps is a term I've never heard too.


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## KatieBlue'sMidnightSky (Feb 22, 2011)

goldenjackpuppy said:


> I think "pearls" may mean he has a complete set of boy parts. I assumed Y was a typo, but perhaps is a term I've never heard too.



OHHHHHH LOL....if that is what it means....his little boy parts...that is funny! I've also heard of tiny bead-like balls in the corners of a puppy's eyes at 8 weeks....something about if they are there the head will widen or something?? Thought maybe it was that.


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## Roushbabe (Feb 20, 2011)

Pearls are the tiny bead like balls in their eyes and the Y back end wasn't a typo, it's what they said when looking at him from the back. Others had a U back end which wasn't good, Y is preferred for showing from my understanding. 


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

Ah, I didn't think of the bumps by the eyes. I thought it was a nice way to say he has all the boy parts though! haha For the Y back are you talking about his rear when viewed from behind?


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## KatieBlue'sMidnightSky (Feb 22, 2011)

Roushbabe said:


> Pearls are the tiny bead like balls in their eyes and the Y back end wasn't a typo, it's what they said when looking at him from the back. Others had a U back end which wasn't good, Y is preferred for showing from my understanding.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I've heard of a an upside down "U" and "V" describing the rear view between the legs/under tail....the space created looking like an upside down U or V, but I thought "U" was better for conformation. ?? Maybe it is something totally different. I am super curious what a Y back means. Ask your breeder and report back...lol!!!


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

Kimberley, 

I also thought the U was what one was looking for, at least that's what I recall from watching the Puppy Puzzle DVDs last year and looking at litters. I've never heard it described as a U back or Y back though....so maybe this is something different??

ETA: I just found an article on Pat Hastings' evaluations that said this: The view from behind in a well structure dog should look like an inverted "U". If the puppy provides the appearance of a "V", this suggests a narrow pelvis causing the dog to move narrow in the rear. In general, Pat Hastings feels that the dog should not be narrower at the rear than they are at the shoulders.


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## Roushbabe (Feb 20, 2011)

Maybe I misheard then when she said what letter for the rear. Yes it was when you look from the back. At this point, I'm not sure if she said Y, V, or U lol. All I know is that he had a good rear as well from looking at it from rear view between the legs. I'll double check with the breeder and who evaluated the puppies too and get back to you guys.


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

hotel4dogs said:


> very cute puppy!! Have lots of fun with him!
> I agree with Michelle, handling your own dogs is not easy. But in all fairness, Jen is in Canada, and CKC is very different from AKC.
> I would suggest entering Keisel in some UKC shows for practice. It's very relaxed, lots of fun, and great experience. Sometimes they offer puppy classes, too. Check their upcoming events on their website, www.ukcdogs.com I believe.


I agree with the idea of starting with a UKC show. They have a puppy class that is from 3 to 6 months. It is non-licensed, which means it doesn't count for any points. I have my puppy entered this weekend just to get him used to a ring and people and judges and the whole show scene. I mostly show in obedience but have found that UKC is very user friendly and showed my other Golden in breed with UKC. It was great fun!
Just something to consider.
You have a very nice looking pup. Just remember to have FUN!


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## Roushbabe (Feb 20, 2011)

BayBeams said:


> I agree with the idea of starting with a UKC show. They have a puppy class that is from 3 to 6 months. It is non-licensed, which means it doesn't count for any points. I have my puppy entered this weekend just to get him used to a ring and people and judges and the whole show scene. I mostly show in obedience but have found that UKC is very user friendly and showed my other Golden in breed with UKC. It was great fun!
> Just something to consider.
> You have a very nice looking pup. Just remember to have FUN!


I looked on the website and couldn't find anything nearby :-( I might be looking at the wrong events but nothing seems to be around Ft Lauderdale, FL

Sounds like it would be an awesome experience for Keisel and I


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

Roushbabe said:


> I looked on the website and couldn't find anything nearby :-( I might be looking at the wrong events but nothing seems to be around Ft Lauderdale, FL
> 
> Sounds like it would be an awesome experience for Keisel and I


I have no ideas if any of these shows are located near you but this is the page that lists the UKC shows for Florida:

United Kennel Club: Upcoming Events


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## Roushbabe (Feb 20, 2011)

BayBeams said:


> I have no ideas if any of these shows are located near you but this is the page that lists the UKC shows for Florida:
> 
> United Kennel Club: Upcoming Events


Are all of these considered dog shows with a puppy class? If not which ones are? The closest one would be Lakeland and Keisel would be 6 months old by then. Is that too old??

I contacted my breeder about showing and if she knows of any upcoming shows in our area. She sent me this link (Click Here) and told me to only look at ones that are AB/O/JSHW. These are AKC shows though.


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

Most Conformation breeders only do AKC. When will he turn 6 months? I would not take showing to seriously right now. If there is a show near you, then enter. UKC is very relaxed and it would be a g


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

Most Conformation breeders only do AKC. When will he turn 6 months? I would not take showing to seriously right now. If there is a show near you, then enter. UKC is very relaxed and it would be a good experience for you. Also matches. I am sure fl will be having upcoming matches in the spring.


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

The nice thing about UKC is that is typically smaller than AKC is more relaxed and is a very friendly venue. They do not allow professional handlers so it is a good way for someone who is getting started to give it a try. That's not to say that there aren't some awesome owners who are quite experienced in handling their own dogs.
I have found it to be great fun with a bunch of friendly and helpful people. Even the judges will offer helpful hints and suggestions and they LOVE the puppies. It can be a good way to get started. They have the non-licensed puppy class for pups from 3 to 6 months that is such fun to watch with all those puppies showing heir stuff!


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