# What to expect near the end - hemangiosarcoma



## puddles everywhere

I have no experience with your particular issue but heavy panting is usually a sign of pain. The white gums usually indicates anemia. Maybe the vet can provide something to make him more comfortable?? I would give him a call.


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## Siandvm

It sounds as if on Monday he may have had a bleed which clotted itself and resorbed. He was not well while he was bleeding and felt better when it clotted. 

It sounds today as if he may have had another bleed. There is no way to tell whether any one particular bleed is going to be "the one". But I can tell you that they will keep happening -- it's the nature of the disease. Usually collapse indicates a massive bleed. Sounds as if he may have a slow leak which is making him anemic and hypovolemic, tired, out of breath, etc. I cannot tell you whether this one will also clot itself off, or will just keep progressing. 

Short of a collapse, it becomes a situation of weighing his quality of life. If he is not getting up, not eating, and not greeting people at the door, those seem like indicators you might want to use. The problem is that you don't know if he will snap out of it. You DO know that eventually he won't. You have to decide if you want to wait and see if he gets better or take the chance that he will get worse. That is a decision only YOU can make. Some people on this forum have used the adage "better a day too early than a day too late". I don't know how I never heard it before here, but I think it is a wise sentiment. However, as I said, only you know what is right for you and Harley. I'm so sorry that you and he are facing this.


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## Christa Loughead Giddens

Siandvm, thank you so much. Your response makes so much sense and explains the ups and downs we have been experiencing since Harley's diagnosis. Tonight he seems better and is eating chicken breast out of my han and got up to go outside. We are fortunate that our neighbor is a vet and has offered to come over to our home and help Harley if we decide it's his time to pass. It's so difficult to decide when it's the right time. I lost my mother less than two months ago and my father in law last week so having to go through this is torture - for me and my husband and kids. I'm hoping that he will continue to be pain free and will pass in his sleep so we won't have to make that decision for him.


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## Buddy's mom forever

Christa, I am so sorry for your Harley. And sorry for the loss of your mother and father in law, such a sad time for you right now. Hug your boy, hope you have more good days to come with him. It is an awful disease taking away so many of our beautiful goldens. Sending hugs, will keep you in my thoughts and prayers.


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## Yaichi's Mom

Christa, just know that my heart aches for you and your beloved Harley.

My experience with my precious Yaichi and hemangio was somewhat different from yours...they are all never the same. My girl collapsed and had a few moments of mobility, however after that she was basically immobile.

That said, each case of this evil hemangiosarcoma has a different face and manifest, therefore I can't even begin to tell you what to expect except that devastatingly it won't get any better, except for brief moments that give false hope.

Love him, make as many precious moments that you are able and then with all the love in your heart, let him go when you feel it's time...I am, so, so sorry. Believe you me, I and many know exactly where you are right now.

Sending you love, clarity and strength in this most difficult time....many hugs...


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## LynnC

I am so sorry for your sweet Harley, your mother and father-in-law. That is way too much grief and sorrow  . Spoil Harley every moment & you'll know when it's time. Wishing you & Harley peace and comfort during this most difficult time.


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## alphadude

Christa, first off I am terribly sorry to hear of Harley's diagnosis. I went through a very similar scenario toward the end of last summer with my best friend Axl. What Siandvm told you above is correct. When Harley is immobile and not eating he is having an active bleed, and when he bounces back a bit, he is reabsorbing some of the blood, almost like a 'self transfusion'. Ax rallied back several times from death's door until the final time when he died in my arms. It is a vile, insidious, disease but at least I was told that it isn't painful for them. Lethargy and discomfort mostly.

The color (or lack thereof) of the gums and tongue are the key indicator. The paler they are the worse the bleed. Also look for a bloated abdomen - you can feel and hear the blood swishing around in there. 

Check out Yunnan Baiyaio which is a Chinese herb that supposedly slows or stops minor bleeds. I think it helped keep Ax alive with better quality for some extra time to say goodbye. He lasted exactly 40 days from diagnosis and subsequent surgery - spleen removed as well as a lobe of his liver. 

From what you describe, unfortunately it sounds like the time is very short. Keep him comfortable, and spend as much time as possible with him. Give him lots of love. That's how I spent my Labor Day weekend this past year - afraid to leave for 5 minutes. It was beyond horrific.

Best wishes during this extremely difficult time.


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## sterling18

I am sorry to hear about the loss in your family. My heart goes out to you and for what your dear pup is going through. You did the right thing for Harley by bringing him home. Spend as much time as you can with him. Spoil him totally. Stay by him and remind him of your love for him. 

Offer him food directly from your table if you want to entice him to eat a little. I did that for my pup when he wouldn't have an interest in eating due to the nasel carcinoma . He couldn't smell. He loved his food and to see him not be able to smell and enjoy food. My heart broke.

Panting heavily is a sign. Lack of interest in things that he loved to do is also another sign. It is going to be difficult because he will unfortunately offer signs to the contrary and you might gain false hope. But unfortunately, you will be the only one who is able to make the decision for him. 

Two pieces of advice I was given at this trying time with my pup was the following;

"He will stay with you as long as you need him" Goldens are one of the loyalest if not the most loyal of dogs to be blesses to us. They will try their hardest to be with us and comfort us during this trying time. No matter what they are feeling, they put us above themselves.

The second is the hardest. From the loving people on this forum and I am having the hardest time typing this with clear eyes. If you feel he is in pain, discomfort or just totally feeling miserable and you're wondering what to do next. "A day too soon is better than a day too late". I wish you the best because only you would know what that would be.

Please be by his side. Comfort him. Spend as much time as you can. I tried to spend every moment when we decided and I still feel I didn't spend enough time with him. I don't wish that feeling upon anyone.

I apologize in advance if I may have said anything to offend you in my post. I don't post often in this forum because it's still very difficult for me.

I wish you two my best. Prayers and good thoughts on it's way to you and Harley.


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## DevWind

So sorry you have to go through this right now. I lost a German Shepherd to this. Only we had no symptoms until it was too late. Our vet told us to take her home and enjoy her for the weekend and gave us some mess to help keep her comfortable and bring her back Monday. So we took her for a nice, long car ride (one of her favorite things) Cuddled her on the bed all night, had her favorite people come say their goodbyes, and generally made it the best weekend ever. She was lethargic and refused to eat all weekend. Even with offers of cheeseburgers and chicken nuggets.


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## murphy1

I very much agree with the "Better one day early than one day too late". Quality of life for your best friend should be first and foremost. I pray I never experience this dreaded disease and I pray for all that are dealing with it.


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## Donna Vaccaro Cirillo

I feel the pain your going through... We lost our 8 yr old Golden Chase on Monday to this horrific cancer. Started two weeks ago was not feeling well but it was off and on. We took him to the vet they did bloodwork but said slightly elevated liver enzyme they would retest in 4 weeks. Seemed he was feeling better until the Saturday came vomited two times and was just laying down We rushed him to Animal Hospital for a dreaded dignosis. Blood had filled the sac around his heart (which caused the collapse) they drained the blood and did xray to determine that he did have a mass by his heart. We were so very upset. We had to make a decision...when we picked him up he was like his old self (since they drained blood) took him home we gave him that chinese herb like we read. They told us he would have days or weeks. We loved him as much as we could and hoped for a miracle. He had a really great week he was playful was eating I even took him outside for a little each day. Unfortunately one week later he came in from being outside, layed down and within 10 min. started panting and took his last breath. We are heartbroken. We lost our best friend and our unconditional love. All I can say is be strong give your golden as much love as you can and like everyone said you will know what to do by the actions of your Golden. I am happy we took him home and we enjoyed one more week and it was a beautiful week Chase was happy and so were we. Thank you to everyone who contributes their stories on this site cause honestly that is what is getting me through this. Chase will always be in our thoughts and in our hearts.


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## Christa Loughead Giddens

Thank you to everyone for your responses. Harley ended up eating last night and had no problem going up the stairs to go to bed last night. Today he's back to his old self again, greeting people at the door and eating normally. The only odd thing is it sounds like his tummy is growling - not sure why that is happening. It's so hard to try and decide what to do next, do we just keep going day by day or do we have him put to sleep. I know we can only make that decision but I'm so thankful that I found this forum and so many supportive people.

Christa


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## Kalhayd

I have no experience with this type of cancer. I just wanted to offer my thoughts and prayers!


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## 4goldengirls

I have, fortunately, not had to deal with this issue but want you to know my thoughts and prayers are with you and your pup.


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## smp

So sorry for you Christa - we went through this with our Maggie in 2015 - same age of 10. She did the same episode twice that we thought she was taking a turn, then she bounced back. The final episode was more obvious. She just plopped down in the middle of the back yard when coming in from a nice slow walk in the woods. She just couldn't make it the last 15 feet to the house. I had to carry her in. She didn't eat that night and in the morning was pale and panting and still couldn't even get up from her bed to potty. I carried her out and back inside and her breathing continued to look labored and it just seemed obvious. Everyone told me "you'll just know," and it was true. We knew that morning. Hugs to everyone that knows her.


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## T&T

So sorry. 
Does anyone have any updates on this promising research ? 
The University of Pennsylvania's Mushroom Study


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## T&T

Some testimonials here http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...mangiosarcoma-holistic-approach-treating.html


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## Yaichi's Mom

Christa, you may want to consider contacting Ketopet who have had success in both slowing down and halting cancers including hemangiosarcoma.

Apparently they will assist dog owners via email:

[email protected].

Internal Bleeding May Be the First Sign of Hemangiosarcoma

Could a Change in Diet Cure Your Dog?s Cancer? | Modern Dog magazine


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## sterling18

Christans said:


> Thank you to everyone for your responses. Harley ended up eating last night and had no problem going up the stairs to go to bed last night. Today he's back to his old self again, greeting people at the door and eating normally. The only odd thing is it sounds like his tummy is growling - not sure why that is happening. It's so hard to try and decide what to do next, do we just keep going day by day or do we have him put to sleep. I know we can only make that decision but I'm so thankful that I found this forum and so many supportive people.
> 
> Christa


I'm glad he's back to his old self. Take it day by day. Don't need to rush into anything unless you feel he's in pain or not able to do the things he loves.

btw, these types of decision are never easy, anyone that tells you they are, have never experienced the loss or love of a pup.

You are doing the right thing. Just love him up and spoil him for as long as possible.


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## sterling18

Prayers and good thoughts are still sent your way. Wishing you the best during these hard times.


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## KathyL

I just saw your original post today and hope Harley is doing well. My first golden was diagnosed with Hemangio of the spleen and unfortunately lived just a short time after having surgery. Siandvm gave you a very good description of hemangio and I completely agree that only you can decide when it is time. I'm also very sorry to hear of the recent loss of your mother and father-in-law.


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## Christa Loughead Giddens

Just an update on Harley...it's five weeks today since he was diagnosed and he's still with us and still seems great. He has eaten everything except dog food - steak dinners, pork chops, etc - basically anything he wants! We wake up each morning fearing the worst but he's still there at the foot of our bed, tail wagging. He has outlived all expectations but we do realize it's only a matter of time. Thank you to everyone for your advice and support. 
Christa


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## murphy1

I'm so happy to read he's doing so well.


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## MyMaggieGirl

What a sweet face on Harley. So glad he's still with you.


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## sam and coopers mom

So glad to hear your Harley is doing well. He looks so much like my Sam who we lost to lymphosarcoma last year. Cherish each minute you have left with him. Wishing you love and strength as you finish your journey with your beloved friend.


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## Megora

One of our dogs nearly died at home. 

Would not wish that experience on any dog. 

He started bleeding out.

Collapsed. 

Was suffering a lot.

Went into shock.

We rushed him to the vet and basically we had no options. His insides were toxic.

Our next golden died in his sleep (blood clot) after we had surgery done. And this was a much preferable option, since he did not suffer like the other dog did. And we knew we gave him our best try to save him.

First golden before these guys, similarly almost died at home. Was not cancer, but made no difference in the end.

His last day, he could not drink water. He was terribly thirsty and desperate for water. He would drink and it would come right back up. Again, this was because his insides were toxic and everything was shutting down. And believe it or not, we were not convinced that this was the end. Us kids had no idea. And even my parents were thinking that he would be better in the morning. He shook all night. I had him wrapped in blankets next to my bed and kept an arm around him, but he was in shock the next day when we rushed him to the vet to let him die faster without the suffering.

I have friends who have had their dogs die in their sleep. The dogs either dropped down and died in the yard in the middle of playing... or they fell asleep under the kitchen table and never woke up. <= You would hope they all would go that peacefully. 

But there is also the responsibility of the owners to act when they see the dogs suffering. And they need to have their eyes open and don't let their emotions color what they are seeing. 

Putting dogs to sleep is not the worst thing.... the two dogs mentioned above were put to sleep to end their suffering. They went peacefully. We got to kiss them goodbye and love them in their last moments.


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## Christa Loughead Giddens

*Update on Harley - 5 weeks since hemangiosarcoma diagnosis*

Hi Kate

We are extremely lucky that our next door neighbor is a vet so she is keeping a close eye on Harley. If we suspect for one second that he is in any pain or suffering in the least our neighbor will come to our home to euthanize him. For now, we are feeling incredibly for each day that we have - he was never supposed to live this long! We will continue to spoil him rotten and wait on him hand and foot!


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## murphy1

Megora...........that was so well said. You and I agree....always put your best friend first....them first.... before our need for them to be with us.

I'm glad Harley is doing ok.


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## SandyK

Happy to see Harley is still doing good and enjoying being spoiled!!:smile2: Very nice that your neighbor is a vet and will be there if you need her. Keep enjoying the time together!!


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## sterling18

Christa, as you're already doing, spoiling Harley rotten is the right thing to do. I'm sure you're already doing it, cherishing every minute. Continued good wishes for Harley and you. Harley looks like a great pup.

Thank you for the update,


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## Lisa Mae

Hi! My name is Lisa and we have a wonderful golden named Honey. He is 6 years old. He has most of the symptoms described here. Panting, gum color pale, won't eat his food (will eat treats from us), fever, lethargy. He has lost about 20 pounds also. This is so hard! He is my buddy.


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## CAROLINA MOM

Hi Lisa, I'm so sorry about your boy, he's beautiful. 

Have you had your Vet exam him and do a full blood work up?


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## Lisa Mae

Yes, I took him to Dr. Connie last week and she gave him pain pills. It has helped him perk up a little. I have not done any blood work yet though. She said we would do it this week if he didn't improve. I just don't want him to suffer.


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## CAROLINA MOM

Since his gums are pale and he's not eating, that is definitely a sign there is a health problem with him. The blood work up will help determine what it is. 

Your Vet may want to do an Ultrasound too to see if there are any masses and perhaps do a biopsy if there is one. 

I hope it turns out to not be serious-thinking of you and your boy.


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## murphy1

I don't understand why you are waiting if your dog is so sick and lost 20lbs. How long has this been going on?


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## WI12345

murphy1 said:


> I don't understand why you are waiting if your dog is so sick and lost 20lbs. How long has this been going on?



I think some people wait because the dog seems OK and they just can't imagine putting him down if there is any chance they are making the wrong decision.

The day our 12 year old Murphy died seemed like it would be a normal day. Just the day before he was doing the zoomies out in the backyard. But that day I got up and walked to the front door to get the paper and let him out. When I turned around, I realized he had not followed me from the bedroom. I called him several times and he finally came towards me, walking very slowly and appearing to be in pain. He went outside and did his business. Then we came in and I put his food in his dish. Normally he devours it, including the day before. But that day he looked at it and then looked away. He drank some water and then laid down next to his dish ... he never laid there before that. That sinking feeling came over me. My husband was out of town so I called a friend and her husband came over and picked Murphy up and put him in the back of the car. It was Sunday so we had to go to the 24 hour emergency clinic. He managed to walk into the clinic but laid down as soon as I sat in the waiting area. He would normally be pulling on the leash and trying to say hello to everyone, but he just laid there and I was even able to go to the ladies room without him moving an inch. At first they couldn't find anything wrong with the X-rays but then they did an ultrasound and found fluid at the base of his heart. They suspected it was hemongiosarcoma of the heart. There was no way to be sure without a heart specialist looking at him, and there was none available on a Sunday. They told me that if it was not that, it would be something that required heart surgery. Either way it was pretty obvious that euthanasia was staring me in the face. You don't do open heart surgery with a 12 year old Golden ... at least not me. Since hemongiosaroma is so prevalent in his breed, we were pretty sure that's what it was. I decided to wait for my husband to fly in before making a final decision. I waited in a private room with Murphy for over 12 hours. I just couldn't think of leaving him for even a minute of the last day of his life. After a couple of hours he suddenly perked up! He was giving the nurses his paw ... wagging his tail ... even ate some food that a friend brought for me. By the time my husband got there I was thinking we should take him home and bring him to a different doctor the next day. The doctor tried to explain to me that the fluid probably burst and went into his system and that's why he was feeling better, but that it would build up again. She put him on a heart monitor and is rate was going from 80 to 280 and back again. The chances of him having a heart attack at home and collapsing in pain were very good. My husband and I decided together to say goodbye to Murphy, even though he was acting normal at that moment. We still feel it was the best decision. He never suffered for more than a few hours, and we never watched him suffer (which I have with former dogs).

Keep in mind that Goldens will often hide their pain because they don't want you to know ... that's at least what I have been told.

We all have to do what we feel is right for us. The decision we made felt like the right thing to do.

Sorry this turned out to be so long. That was the worst day of my life and it helps to write about it.


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## NothingbutGold

Hi,

If I were you I would not wait a minute to have Honey checked out. Our last golden had many of the same symptoms as Honey. We brought him to an Emergency Pet Hospital and they did an ultrasound and saw fluid near his heart. They drained his pericardial sac and suspected he might have hemangiosarcoma. As soon as they drained the sac, Ben was back to acting like his old self. Within a couple of weeks, his sac was filled with fluid again and per the vet's recommendation, we had her drain the sac once more, only to have his symptoms return even sooner. My husband and I with the support of vet, had agreed that we would not drain the sac a third time. Being the third time, it was time to let Benny go. I don't know if an Emergency Hospital is an option for you but for the sake of Honey, I would let him suffer another minute.


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## murphy1

A dog that has lost 20lbs is not ok. I, for the life of me, don't understand with that staring you in the face....wait.


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## Maizie

*End Stage of Hemangiosarcoma*

My 9.5 year old Golden Maizie, was diagnosed with hemangiosarcoma exactly 15 weeks ago when she collapsed and her spleen had ruptured. We took her to the emergency clinic and they were able to stabilize her overnite. Took her to my vt the next am. Decided to bring her home to allow the blood in her abdomen reabsorb, and then 4 days later removed her spleen. She did great but their were nodules in her liver that could not be removed. I visited a hollistic vet, researched on my own and talked to every body I know about this horrible diagnosis and prognosis. The emergency clinic got her on Yunnan Baiyou for bleeding, I continue that with ImYunnity, CBD oil, a probiotic, superfood, her thyroid meds, Noni friut juice and leather, raw diet mixed with many fresh things specific for cancer of the blood. She did great until about week 7-8 where we had a period of bleeds over 2 weeks. My holistic vet told me none of her patients owners go beyond that stage. We stuck with her and she came out on the good side each time. It was hard and we felt we were near the end each time, but she rallied and it was amazing.She swam in the ool, barked at the deer and was happy. No more hikes or anything strenuous but content and always smiling. We have now had 32 days with out a bleed. But in the past week we are seeing a decline.Her abdomen is distended, she is sliding out with her back legs, she is happily eating but in smaller amounts at a time. Tonite when I came home from work, she had to be encouraged and helped to get up and she has edema on the rear lower legs, but she is still wagging her tail and licked the last remnants of the cat food. I fear we are near the end, do not want her to be sufferring, but love her so much and so hard to know when it is time as she tries to keep me happy and looks at me smiling. When do you decide? she has pulled thru and rallied with the bleeds but this is different. her gums are perfect color and do not feel we are bleeding. Any advice?


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## murphy1

I'm so sorry you are going thru this, it is truly heartbreaking. I can only suggest that you not let her suffer, which i'm sure you won't. Some have trouble letting go but it is the kindest this to do. As many here have said "better be one day too soon than one day too late".


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## cwag

Maizie said:


> My 9.5 year old Golden Maizie, was diagnosed with hemangiosarcoma exactly 15 weeks ago when she collapsed and her spleen had ruptured. We took her to the emergency clinic and they were able to stabilize her overnite. Took her to my vt the next am. Decided to bring her home to allow the blood in her abdomen reabsorb, and then 4 days later removed her spleen. She did great but their were nodules in her liver that could not be removed. I visited a hollistic vet, researched on my own and talked to every body I know about this horrible diagnosis and prognosis. The emergency clinic got her on Yunnan Baiyou for bleeding, I continue that with ImYunnity, CBD oil, a probiotic, superfood, her thyroid meds, Noni friut juice and leather, raw diet mixed with many fresh things specific for cancer of the blood. She did great until about week 7-8 where we had a period of bleeds over 2 weeks. My holistic vet told me none of her patients owners go beyond that stage. We stuck with her and she came out on the good side each time. It was hard and we felt we were near the end each time, but she rallied and it was amazing.She swam in the ool, barked at the deer and was happy. No more hikes or anything strenuous but content and always smiling. We have now had 32 days with out a bleed. But in the past week we are seeing a decline.Her abdomen is distended, she is sliding out with her back legs, she is happily eating but in smaller amounts at a time. Tonite when I came home from work, she had to be encouraged and helped to get up and she has edema on the rear lower legs, but she is still wagging her tail and licked the last remnants of the cat food. I fear we are near the end, do not want her to be sufferring, but love her so much and so hard to know when it is time as she tries to keep me happy and looks at me smiling. When do you decide? she has pulled thru and rallied with the bleeds but this is different. her gums are perfect color and do not feel we are bleeding. Any advice?


I am so sorry you are going through this with your girl. There is thread on Quality of Life that might be helpful: 
https://www.goldenretrieverforum.co...breed-standard/440010-quality-life-scale.html

I think others who have had to deal with Hemangiosarcoma have posted about letting their dogs go before a bad bleed occurred. I can tell you have loved Maizie well throughout her life and you will know when the kindest thing will be to set her free. Again I am so sorry. People on this forum understand how painful this is.


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