# Westminster 2009



## Ljilly28

Last years Golden Results
RETRIEVER (GOLDEN)
Judge: Mrs. Paula Nykiel

14 Ch Toasty's Treasure Island 
Breed: Retriever (Golden)
Sex: Bitch
AKC: SR 18885402
Date of Birth: June 12, 2004
Breeder: Pamela & Jerome Oxenberg
Sire: Ch Happy Hour Highmark Toasty
Dam: Ch Toasty's Josie
Owner: Pamela & Jerome Oxenberg
Photos: Breed judging


8 Ch Easthill Broxden Pop Star 
Breed: Retriever (Golden)
Sex: Dog
AKC: SR 22568002
Date of Birth: October 03, 2004
Breeder: Sandra Kim Hoffen & Amy Rodrigues
Sire: Ch Faera's Starlight
Dam: Ch Teran's Impeachable Offense
Owner: Megan Hill & Charma Hill & Sandra Hoffen

19 Ch Sandpipers Give'M H Harry 
Breed: Retriever (Golden)
Sex: Dog
AKC: SR 11431807
Date of Birth: June 26, 2003
Breeder: Patty Pace
Sire: Ch Deja Vu's Air Phare Miles
Dam: Ch Sandpiper's Egghibitionist
Owner: Kathy E Johnson-Siegle & Jane Docter & Shari L Marshik

25 Ch Gemini's Chants To Xcel 
Breed: Retriever (Golden)
Sex: Dog
AKC: SR 24285201
Date of Birth: March 07, 2005
Breeder: Cindi Metcalf & Candi Pearce
Sire: Ch Crescent O-Ee-Yah! Eoh-Ah!
Dam: Ch Gemini's Lone Star Belle CD MX MXJ
Owner: Kathy Cudak & Cindi Metcalf


27 Ch Annecys Summits Theif In The Nite 
Breed: Retriever (Golden)
Sex: Bitch
AKC: SR 28379915
Date of Birth: July 18, 2005
Breeder: David & Carrie Noble
Sire: Ch Summits Mr Bojangles
Dam: Ch Merrygold Turn Down The Music.Com
Owner: Beth Johnson & David & Carrie Noble


9 Ch Easthill Broxden The Fig Is Up 
Breed: Retriever (Golden)
Sex: Dog
AKC: SR 09966306
Date of Birth: June 07, 2003
Breeder: Sandra Kim Hoffen & Amy Rodrigues
Sire: Ch Newport's Get Off My Cloud
Dam: Ch Teran's Impeachable Offense
Owner: Sandra Kim Hoffen & Alex & Joe Ovalle & Amy Rodrigues


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## hotel4dogs

thanks for the info., I loved looking at the K9data pages. Sheeesh, how can they ever select one best out of such an unbelievable field?? 
Amazing dogs, each and every one.
The only one I've seen in person is Toasty, and there's really only one word to describe her.
WOW.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo

I keeping watching the video of the 2004 Goldens running the circle. So many of them look alike! They even move alike. I see the difference in movement though. Tucker moves so differently than Shadow for a number of reasons, but his movement can take your breath away when in a group of Goldens. He sort of sits with that attitude you've seen before, too. When people see Tucker and Shadow's photo they know which one had an accomplished Sire.

I can't watch the dog shows. I get upset for the dogs that lose.


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## Ljilly28

Kimm said:


> I can't watch the dog shows. I get upset for the dogs that lose.


Lol- I get miffed if/when the Golden loses the sporting group, and lose some interest.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo

They all work so hard to get them there. Money spent, time away from loved ones, times spent living with handlers. I just can't take it! I used to laugh at my Mom for being like this.


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## goldengirls550

I'm rooting for Treasure (BOB)


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## Ljilly28

I am not sure who is entered v staying home bc there's not a list up yet.
Here are the Eukanuba goldens
Golden Retriever

Sporting Group - 2nd Place 
Chaos, CH BIS BISS RUSH HILL RUN'N AMUCK AT ABELARD SDHF OA OAJ OAP OJP NFP http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=106827

Sporting Group - 3rd Place Bred by Exhibitor 
Chaos BIS BISS CH RUSH HILL RUN'N AMUCK AT ABELARD SDHF OA OAJ OAP OJP NFP 

Best of Breed 
Chaos BIS BISS CH RUSH HILL RUN'N AMUCK AT ABELARD SDHF OA OAJ OAP OJP NFP 

Best of Opposite Sex 
CH TOASTY'S TREASURE ISLAND 

Award of Excellence 
CH AG-GOLDEN AGE DIAMOND INTICAN (? I don't know this dog- maybe from http://www.aggoldenagekennels.com/, but I'm not sure)
Noah, BIS CH AVALOR'S INXS SDHF: http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=179922 
Gibson, CH BIRNAM WOOD'S HOOT GIBSON SDHF, Multi BIS BISS http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=196766
Gino BISS CH JETOCA'S WINDWARD PASSAGE SDHF http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=84498
CH TOASTY'S TREASURE ISLAND


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## Debles

Chaos is a pretty red golden!!! YEA!! Good to see the redder goldens doing well.
When is Westminster?


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## Ljilly28

http://dogshowpoop.blogspot.com

How about Joseph? Casanova?http://www.nautilusgoldens.info/index.asp?ID=40


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## DanielleH

I'm rooting for Smuggler


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## historicprim

I really like Toasty's Treasure Island "Treasure" bitch
I like the style of their bitch's more than their dogs. (sorry)

I personally know Gold-Rush National Treasure "Nate" dog
Beautiful great big teddy bear with a wonderful temperment.
And their are a few others I know going that I will not promote..lol..again sorry


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## Pointgold

I'm not sharing my thoughts on who I think will win. But I will be ringside rooting someone on...:crossfing


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## Ljilly28

Pointgold said:


> I'm not sharing my thoughts on who I think will win. But I will be ringside rooting someone on...:crossfing


Hoot Gibson!!??


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## MaddieMagoo

Ljilly28 said:


> Lol- I get miffed if/when the Golden loses the sporting group, and lose some interest.


Te hehe...same here! 

I think the Summit dog, Treasure and Newton have the ring this year....but that's just me! =] They are all lovely dogs and they should all feel very proud of being invited down to Westminster. I don't think any Golden can ever live up to Truman...but that's just my opinion!


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## Ash

Ljilly28 said:


> Hoot Gibson!!??


My thought exactly!

I need to see the complete list before knowing who I am going for. LOL the countdown is ON!!!


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## goldengirls550

This is kinda off topic, but my friend/obedience & rally instructor's dog (a yellow lab) is going up there. This will be his first year as he finished late 2007. I love love love this lab. His head has appeared on almost every puppy he has sired and he's just got the sweetest and best temerment. Layla couldn't agree more  I will definitely be watching the breed videos when WKC puts them on the web.

http://www.fallingcreeklabradors.com/Falling_Creek/Strider_Pedigree.html

http://www.topformlabradors.com/topform_labs_boys.htm


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## Ljilly28

Do people really hire private security firms for a specific dog, and is there real danger of a dog thief? Didnt a Chuckanut dog get stolen once, maybe in a van??? I think they mention it in describing their dog Windy on their website. I am curious about all this, but uninformed.



> D. SECURITY ARRANGEMENTS: ALL REQUESTS FOR
> THE HIRING OF PRIVATE GUARDS FOR THE
> WESTMINSTER KENNEL CLUB DOG SHOW MUST
> BE MADE THROUGH DOG SECURITY AT
> MADISON SQUARE GARDEN (212-631-5350)
> AFTER DECEMBER 31, 2008, AND BEFORE NOON
> ON MONDAY, FEBRUARY 2, 2009, FOR BOTH
> THE ORDER AND PAYMENT. THERE WILL BE AN
> EIGHT (8) HOUR MINIMUM SHIFT AND PAYMENT
> IN ADVANCE IS REQUIRED.


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## Pointgold

Ljilly28 said:


> Do people really hire private security firms for a specific dog, and is there real danger of a dog thief? Didnt a Chuckanut dog get stolen once, maybe in a van??? I think they mention it in describing their dog Windy on their website. I am curious about all this, but uninformed.


 
Ken and Wayne's van was stolen while at a show, and to make a long story short, the dogs were wandering around the area, as the dogs were not what he thieves wanted. They were all recovered. 

Yes, some people do hire individual security for their dogs on the bench so that they can leave the area. (AKC will fine you if you are not with your dogs whil benched.) The benching area is a nightmare - SO many people packed into a small area, and spectators moving through all day. One year I was o the bench with my Pom, and when I turned around after speaking with a spectator, my wallet was gone. It was found,having been kicked under the bench into the next aisle, and turned in to the superintendent, minus $400.00.


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## AquaClaraCanines

Question...

Why steal a show dog? They're all but worthless (financially! I'm not talking about their worth as friends and pets) without their papers in your name, right? Unless you planned to substitute papers for one of your own lesser quality dogs and use the stolen dog for dishonest breeding purposes?!! I've never understood that.

I realize some might, sadly, steal a show dog to harm it/remove it from competition.


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## Pointgold

AquaClaraCanines said:


> Question...
> 
> Why steal a show dog? They're all but worthless (financially! I'm not talking about their worth as friends and pets) without their papers in your name, right? Unless you planned to substitute papers for one of your own lesser quality dogs and use the stolen dog for dishonest breeding purposes?!! I've never understood that.
> 
> I realize some might, sadly, steal a show dog to harm it/remove it from competition.


 
Why would they be worthless? We already know plenty of "breeders" who produce and sell dogs for large sums who do not have AKC papers... and that all one needs to do is send a picture of a dog to get "registration" papers from APRI, etc.


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## arcane

Pointgold said:


> I'm not sharing my thoughts on who I think will win. But I will be ringside rooting someone on...:crossfing


OH! Lucky you ...can I hide in your suitcase!!:hide::--big_grin:


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## AquaClaraCanines

I meant in the sense that if it's a famous dog, even if someone got alternative papers on the animal, it would surely be recognized if taken in public. And, if someone wanted to show or breed the dog in AKC, he certainly would not be able to get away with it. The person who stole the animal would have to completely lie/substitute papers. Which I guess if someone would steal a dog, he probably wouldn't think twice about lying either. The value in such dogs, though, is their breeding and accomplishments- which is why I don't see why they'd be stolen when their pedigrees and IDs would have to be kept secret. Kind of like... why would someone steal a famous painting, only to have to hide it away forever?


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## Pointgold

AquaClaraCanines said:


> I meant in the sense that if it's a famous dog, even if someone got alternative papers on the animal, it would surely be recognized if taken in public. And, if someone wanted to show or breed the dog in AKC, he certainly would not be able to get away with it. The person who stole the animal would have to completely lie/substitute papers. Which I guess if someone would steal a dog, he probably wouldn't think twice about lying either. The value in such dogs, though, is their breeding and accomplishments- which is why I don't see why they'd be stolen when their pedigrees and IDs would have to be kept secret. Kind of like... why would someone steal a famous painting, only to have to hide it away forever?


I don't think like a criminal, so I really couldn't tell you. No one would attempt to show the dog, that's for sure, but as for being recognized, I don't believe that is true at all. Even many experienced exhibitors won't recognize certain dogs outside of the ring, when not fully show groomed, or, even if with someone other than their regular handler.


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## Pointgold

arcane said:


> OH! Lucky you ...can I hide in your suitcase!!:hide::--big_grin:


If I were to pack everyone who wants to hide in my suitcase, my baggage charges would cost more than my airfare and lodging. :doh: I pack real light GOING, so I can have more room for RETURNING. (I like to contribute to NY's economy and do a "little shopping" )


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## avincent52

Ljilly28 said:


> I am not sure who is entered v staying home bc there's not a list up yet.
> Here are the Eukanuba goldens
> Golden Retriever
> 
> Sporting Group - 2nd Place
> Chaos, CH BIS BISS RUSH HILL RUN'N AMUCK AT ABELARD SDHF OA OAJ OAP OJP NFP http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=106827
> 
> Sporting Group - 3rd Place Bred by Exhibitor
> Chaos BIS BISS CH RUSH HILL RUN'N AMUCK AT ABELARD SDHF OA OAJ OAP OJP NFP
> 
> Best of Breed
> Chaos BIS BISS CH RUSH HILL RUN'N AMUCK AT ABELARD SDHF OA OAJ OAP OJP NFP


I peeked at the show on cable yesterday and saw the winning Golden was a Rush Hill dog and figured he and Tessie might share relatives. Turns out that Tessie's mom, Shea, shares a grandparent on one side and a grandma on the other side is a littermate of Chaos' grandpappy. All told, Shea and Chaos' share five of eight great grandparents. 
As for her dad, Tank, all eight of his great grandparents are champions, and his granddad is James. 

Here's Shea's k9 data.
http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=199087

I'm not sure what it all means for us. Tessie's pretty (okay, gorgeous) and I'm hoping that with some hard work, we can finish her OC and DEP by early spring. 

*Caymen's Comment Full of Love OC DEP*

*OC = Off Countertops
*DEP = Doesn't Eat Poop. *

best
Allen


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## Ljilly28

Okay , those titles for Tessie are hilarious. Got your PM; doing it right now!


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## Kohanagold

I cant wait! I will be rooting for whomever wins the sporting group, but truthfully, I really dont want to see a golden win. I know that sounds dumb (and contradictory), but I just remember what happened after Josh won, and there were a ton of Newfies around. I dont know why it works that way... why people would say "I want one of those dogs", but it sure seems to. And then of course there is the "everybody wants to use that dog (for breeding)". But that aside, I hope a few different dogs make the cut and do well. 

I remember when Ken and Wayne's van went missing. I remember, that day, being thankful for Banjo's age and that he was with them. And being happy that they found the dogs and so thankful for the lady that kept them safe until they could be returned. 

BJ


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## Pointgold

Kohanagold said:


> I cant wait! I will be rooting for whomever wins the sporting group, but truthfully, I really dont want to see a golden win. I know that sounds dumb (and contradictory), but I just remember what happened after Josh won, and there were a ton of Newfies around. I dont know why it works that way... why people would say "I want one of those dogs", but it sure seems to. And then of course there is the "everybody wants to use that dog (for breeding)". But that aside, I hope a few different dogs make the cut and do well.
> 
> I remember when Ken and Wayne's van went missing. I remember, that day, being thankful for Banjo's age and that he was with them. And being happy that they found the dogs and so thankful for the lady that kept them safe until they could be returned.
> 
> BJ


 
I was delivering Zoom's first litter, with the show on the television in the whelping room, watching as the new puppies granddaddy (Andy) was winning the Group.


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## Kohanagold

Pointgold said:


> I was delivering Zoom's first litter, with the show on the television in the whelping room, watching as the new puppies granddaddy (Andy) was winning the Group.


I imagine that was one of those "once in a lifetime" exciting moments! I was excited to see Andy win too and would have been estatic if he had won BIS, but I do get nervous about the impact of a breed when a dog wins either Westminster or Crufts... I know, I know, horribly contradictory. But boy, would it ever be exciting to be there. Have fun!! BJ


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## Ljilly28

Is Mariner there, with Kate B-N??


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## Pointgold

Ljilly28 said:


> Is Mariner there, with Kate B-N??


We won't know who all is here until Tuesday when we can actually mark our book.


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## moverking

arcane said:


> OH! Lucky you ...can I hide in your suitcase!!:hide::--big_grin:


...only if you and I both can squeeze in there, lol. Gosh I'd love to be at the goldens ringside!
But I'd really need one of our 'experienced ones' there with me to 'splain all the goings on, inside scoopage on the dogs....~sigh~


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## Debles

So will the golden group be on TV at all?
If it isn't, Can you watch on line ? If so, where?


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## Ash

Only the group judging & BIS be aired on TV (the Golden that wins the breed will be in the group judging Tuesday night). You can watch the breed judging online on the Westminter website and of course select Retriever Golden as the breed.


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## vrocco1

Ljilly28 said:


> Lol- I get miffed if/when the Golden loses the sporting group, and lose some interest.


Believe me, after winning breed, they are not a loser.


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## AmbikaGR

Debles said:


> So will the golden group be on TV at all?
> If it isn't, Can you watch on line ? If so, where?


You will be able to watch the entire judging for Goldens as well as some other breeds listed in the message below. I believe it will be available to see on line shortly AFTER the judging of Goldens is completed. So it will not be live but it won't be far off. 
Link to where to find the streaming video
http://www.westminsterkennelclub.org/
Goldens are Tuesday at 12:15 pm
with 37 entries will probably conclude around 1:30
So the video will probably be up after 2:00 pm
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
David Frei wrote:

Thank you everyone for your support of our efforts to provide audio 
narration on selected streaming videos of our breed judging. But due to 
too many technical and logistical considerations, we are going to forego 
audio for this year.

We are still going to provide coverage of all of the breed judging, 
rather than just highlights, for eight breeds: Labradors, Goldens, 15” 
Beagles, Dogues de Bordeaux, Border Terriers, Cavaliers, French 
Bulldogs, and Australian Shepherds.

Thanks again … Judging schedules are available on our Web site. Cross 
post OK.

David

David Frei
__________________


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## Ljilly28

I wish there was a way to make a list of dogs by time. PG was able to tell me who the dog was when the video read 11:42 for example. I realize this is impossible, but I would love to be able to put the names and the dogs together. I only knew five of them last year by "eyeball", as they say on The Wire.


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## Debles

I watched last years ,Jill, from your link on Facebook. My fave didn't win. Don't even know who he/she was. His handler was wearing red! LOL!

Thanks Hank for sharing the link for Tues! I'll be watching!


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## AmbikaGR

Ljilly28 said:


> I wish there was a way to make a list of dogs by time. PG was able to tell me who the dog was when the video read 11:42 for example. I realize this is impossible, but I would love to be able to put the names and the dogs together. I only knew five of them last year by "eyeball", as they say on The Wire.


I think the catalog will actually be up on the same website Monday as there is only one for both days. You could make a "cheat sheet" ahead of time by armband numbers and dog's names. Hopefully the camera will show each exhibitor's armband at some point when the judge is going over the dog.


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## Pointgold

Ljilly28 said:


> I wish there was a way to make a list of dogs by time. PG was able to tell me who the dog was when the video read 11:42 for example. I realize this is impossible, but I would love to be able to put the names and the dogs together. I only knew five of them last year by "eyeball", as they say on The Wire.


One way to ID them is if you can see the handler's armband number, and then match it to the catalog entry, which is posted on the WKC site.


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## AmbikaGR

6:25 PM


AmbikaGR said:


> I think the catalog will actually be up on the same website Monday as there is only one for both days. You could make a "cheat sheet" ahead of time by armband numbers and dog's names. Hopefully the camera will show each exhibitor's armband at some point when the judge is going over the dog.


6:26 PM


Pointgold said:


> One way to ID them is if you can see the handler's armband number, and then match it to the catalog entry, which is posted on the WKC site.


 
SLOW POKE!!!! :311taunt-


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## Ljilly28

Thanks, alike great minds, for the armband tip. I'll have my cheat sheet prepared (and my top three in case anyone wants to have a betting pool!).


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## Pointgold

AmbikaGR said:


> 6:25 PM
> 
> 
> 6:26 PM
> 
> 
> 
> SLOW POKE!!!! :311taunt-


OVERACHIEVER!!!!:--businessman:


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## Ljilly28

Here are the dogs! No Chaos entered??????? I have to vote for Casanova because of Tally, the two Ripley dogs because Frances is a GRF member, and Hoot Gibson because he's gorgeous. Treasure and Nicolas might be the favorites???????? Look at all the Nautilus kids, especially Joe Millionaire. Also, good luck to Fenway's sister Maggie(Ch Traeloch's Maggie Mae ).

RETRIEVER (GOLDEN)
Judge: Mrs. Nancy Arbuckle
Day: February 10, 2009
Time: 12:15
Ring: 3

5 Ch Goodtime's Johnny Bee Good
Breed: Retriever (Golden)
Sex: Dog
AKC: SR 25411805
Date of Birth: February 09, 2005
Breeder: Kathy Smith & Catherine McElroy
Sire: Ch Scion Oughta Be A Law NA NAJ
Dam: Ch Goodtime's Cassiopeia
Owner: Paula Petelle & Kathy L Smith & Jane Alston-Myers & Greg Myers


6 Ch Trugold's Zoom Rococo Zoom
Breed: Retriever (Golden)
Sex: Dog
AKC: SR 40184202
Date of Birth: March 02, 2006
Breeder: Becky Herman
Sire: Ch Klaasem's Zoom Zoom Zoom
Dam: Trugold's Surprise Me
Owner: Linda Tompkins


7 Ch Easthill Broxden The Fig Is Up
Breed: Retriever (Golden)
Sex: Dog
AKC: SR 09966306
Date of Birth: June 07, 2003
Breeder: Sandra Kim Hoffen & Amy Rodrigues
Sire: Ch Newport's Get Off My Cloud
Dam: Ch Teran's Impeachable Offense
Owner: Sandra Kim Hoffen & Alex & Joe Ovalle & Amy Rodrigues


8 Ch Hyline's Branch Of The Tree
Breed: Retriever (Golden)
Sex: Dog
AKC: SR 24857501
Date of Birth: March 16, 2005
Breeder: Amanda L Dorner
Sire: Ch Honor's Tree Of Life
Dam: Ch Hyline Kalm Sea's Ascott Legend
Owner: Carl Liepmann & Sandra Hoffen


9 Ch Easthill Broxden Pop Star
Breed: Retriever (Golden)
Sex: Dog
AKC: SR 22568002
Date of Birth: October 03, 2004
Breeder: Sandra Kim Hoffen & Amy Rodrigues
Sire: Ch Faera's Starlight
Dam: Ch Teran's Impeachable Offense
Owner: Sandra Hoffen & Amy Rodrigues-Booth & Charma & Megan Hill


10 Ch Annecys Summits Theif In The Nite
Breed: Retriever (Golden)
Sex: Bitch
AKC: SR 28379915
Date of Birth: July 18, 2005
Breeder: David & Carrie Noble
Sire: Ch Summits Mr Bojangles
Dam: Ch Merrygold Turn Down The Music.Com
Owner: Beth Johnson & David & Carrie Noble


11 Ch Toasty's Treasure Island
Breed: Retriever (Golden)
Sex: Bitch
AKC: SR 18885402
Date of Birth: June 12, 2004
Breeder: Pamela Oxenberg & Jerome Oxenberg
Sire: Ch Happy Hour Highmark Toasty
Dam: Ch Toasty's Josie
Owner: Pamela Oxenberg & Jerome Oxenberg & Carolee Douglas & Jane Bares


12 Ch Pennylane Yankee Fall Classic
Breed: Retriever (Golden)
Sex: Bitch
AKC: SR 21871701
Date of Birth: November 17, 2004
Breeder: Beryl Scaggs & Anthony Scaggs
Sire: Ch Waynewood's Classic Gold
Dam: Ch Pennylaneyankeecenterfieldstar
Owner: Beryl Scaggs & Anthony Scaggs


14 Ch Tempo's U've Got What Gets Me
Breed: Retriever (Golden)
Sex: Dog
AKC: SR 21289003
Date of Birth: October 10, 2004
Breeder: David & Barbara Brown
Sire: Ch Tempo's Easy Rider
Dam: Creeksidefrm Stardust At Tempo
Owner: Catherine Meddaugh


15 Ch Annecys Admiral Of The 15th Fleet
Breed: Retriever (Golden)
Sex: Dog
AKC: SR 28379901
Date of Birth: July 18, 2005
Breeder: David & Carrie Noble
Sire: Ch Summits Mr Bojangles
Dam: Ch Merrygold Turn Down The Music.Com
Owner: Sheila S Mann


16 Ch Highlight's A Million Comments
Breed: Retriever (Golden)
Sex: Bitch
AKC: SR 36836301
Date of Birth: August 22, 2006
Breeder: Patrice Loves & Vicky Creamer
Sire: Ch Nautilus Joe Millionare
Dam: Ch Highlight's Constant Comment
Owner: Patrice Loves & Susan Laden


17 Ch Sweetlea's Follow Me
Breed: Retriever (Golden)
Sex: Dog
AKC: SR 15955107
Date of Birth: February 29, 2004
Breeder: Susan Lee
Sire: Ch Woodlyn's Jacks R Better
Dam: Sweet Sara Lee III
Owner: Susan Lee & Robert Lee


18 Ch Birnam Wood's Hoot Gibson
Breed: Retriever (Golden)
Sex: Dog
AKC: SR 29664001
Date of Birth: April 06, 2005
Breeder: Sylvia Donahey & Debra Denardi
Sire: Ch Calypso's Udderwise Alndon
Dam: Ch Birnam Wood's Take Center Stage
Owner: Sylvia Donahey & William J Feeney


19 Ch Traeloch's Maggie Mae
Breed: Retriever (Golden)
Sex: Bitch
AKC: SR 22763703
Date of Birth: November 27, 2004
Breeder: Patricia Ann Flanagan
Sire: Ch Sunkota's Phorgone Conclusion
Dam: Ch Gosling's I'll Do It My Way
Owner: Loretta Puet


20 Ch Xcelerate Victorious Secret
Breed: Retriever (Golden)
Sex: Bitch
AKC: SR 35656501
Date of Birth: May 05, 2006
Breeder: Brandye Randermann
Sire: Ch Afire's Blue Suede Shoes
Dam: Ch Goldstorm Xcelerate One Star E Nite
Owner: Brandye Randermann & Arden Seuberling


21 Ch Xcelerate Twentyx Stetson
Breed: Retriever (Golden)
Sex: Dog
AKC: SR 15165606
Date of Birth: January 29, 2004
Breeder: Brandye Randermann
Sire: Ch Elrene's Soul Provider
Dam: Ch Goldstorm Xcelerate One Star E Nite
Owner: Pamela & Richard Sherry & Ryan Tepera


22 Ch Moonlight's Ducking Genius
Breed: Retriever (Golden)
Sex: Dog
AKC: SR 34692501
Date of Birth: April 08, 2006
Breeder: Alan Bedford & Joanna Bedford
Sire: Ch Nautilus Joe Millionare
Dam: Ch Brylin Moonlight Double Dare
Owner: Becky Brown & Alan Bedford


23 Ch Jazzin's Hot Tabasco Sauce CDX JH NA NAJ
Breed: Retriever (Golden)
Sex: Dog
AKC: SN 72661801
Date of Birth: March 17, 2000
Breeder: Collette Jaynes
Sire: Ch Sheffield-Ducat's SpellBound
Dam: Jazzin's Nite Before Xmas
Owner: Collette Jaynes


24 Ch Jetoca's Windward Passage
Breed: Retriever (Golden)
Sex: Dog
AKC: SR 02134601
Date of Birth: May 28, 2002
Breeder: Tom & Julie Caruthers
Sire: Ch Chuckanut's Brasstime TD JH NA NAJ
Dam: Tuxedo's Forget Me Not
Owner: Julie & Tom Caruthers & Steve Davidson


25 Ch Avalor Sandpiper Tickled Pink
Breed: Retriever (Golden)
Sex: Bitch
AKC: SR 34377902
Date of Birth: May 12, 2006
Breeder: Lori Reuter & Patty Pace
Sire: Ch Carrera Strike The Gold
Dam: Ch Sandpiper's Extraordinhare
Owner: Patty Pace


26 Ch Bonacres Firstar Enterprise RN TD
Breed: Retriever (Golden)
Sex: Dog
AKC: SN 88533505
Date of Birth: November 19, 2001
Breeder: Jane L Coen & Fred Konrad & Brigitte Konrad
Sire: Ch Laurell's Goin' Great Guns
Dam: Ch Bonacres Legal Tender
Owner: Sharon & Clayton Kilrain


27 Ch Valor's No Biz Like Show Biz
Breed: Retriever (Golden)
Sex: Dog
AKC: SN 90048801
Date of Birth: March 04, 2002
Breeder: Bill & Barbara Thornberry
Sire: Ch Rush Hill's Watz Cook'n Good Look'n
Dam: Sunshine Help's On The Way
Owner: Bill & Barbara Thornberry


28 Ch Nautilus Valentine's Danny Boy
Breed: Retriever (Golden)
Sex: Dog
AKC: SR 28128501
Date of Birth: July 20, 2005
Breeder: Debra Traugot & Julie A MacKinnon
Sire: Ch Nautilus Just A Gigolo
Dam: Ch Nautilus Valentines Deep Purple
Owner: Rob & Nancy Brigham & Elizabeth M O'Brien


29 Ch Honeybear's This One's 4 You
Breed: Retriever (Golden)
Sex: Bitch
AKC: SR 20790801
Date of Birth: May 10, 2004
Breeder: Karl & Cindy Kramer & Kelly Shuffelbottom
Sire: Ch Hillock Meredreme's Kazam
Dam: Ch Hillock She's Got A Way
Owner: Kelly Shuffelbottom & Lauren Zimmerman & Betty Cullen


30 Ch Nautilus Purple Passion
Breed: Retriever (Golden)
Sex: Dog
AKC: SN 92449301
Date of Birth: August 07, 2002
Breeder: Julie A MacKinnon
Sire: Ch Nautilus Vanilla Ice
Dam: Ch Nautilus Flirt In The Jaguar
Owner: Julie MacKinnon


31 Ch Numoon's Just Because
Breed: Retriever (Golden)
Sex: Dog
AKC: SR 22262902
Date of Birth: June 06, 2004
Breeder: Beverly Wilson
Sire: Ch Nautilus Joe Millionaire
Dam: NuMoon's Bella Renaissance
Owner: Beverly Wilson & Jamie Campbell


32 Ch Smoketree's Hop's On Pops
Breed: Retriever (Golden)
Sex: Dog
AKC: SR 14163505
Date of Birth: September 07, 2003
Breeder: Randy & Julie Schepper & Dave & Sally Maryatt
Sire: Ch Pacificgold's The Dance
Dam: Ch Benchmark's P Is For Pulchritude
Owner: Rich Larricq


33 Ch Carrera Strike The Gold
Breed: Retriever (Golden)
Sex: Dog
AKC: SR 19339201
Date of Birth: June 25, 2004
Breeder: Jan Draper
Sire: Ch Rush Hill's Foolish Pleasure
Dam: Ch Carrera Daydream Believer
Owner: Jan Draper


34 Ch Summits Mr Bojangles
Breed: Retriever (Golden)
Sex: Dog
AKC: SN 57129701
Date of Birth: July 10, 1998
Breeder: Beth Johnson
Sire: Ch Goldenpine Dustrax Maverick CD TDX
Dam: Ch Summits Shadow Dancer
Owner: Susan Lusa & Rev Alan Klessig & Beth Johnson


35 Ch JBG's Beer Run
Breed: Retriever (Golden)
Sex: Bitch
AKC: SR 28512402
Date of Birth: December 14, 2004
Breeder: Dawn Daley
Sire: Ch Summits Mr. Bojangles
Dam: Ch JBG's Chile Chimichanga
Owner: Dan & Dawn Daley


36 Ch JBG's A Date With Destiny
Breed: Retriever (Golden)
Sex: Dog
AKC: SR 10022401
Date of Birth: April 25, 2002
Breeder: Dan & Dawn Daley
Sire: Ch Rush Hill's Haagen-Dazs
Dam: Ch Fargold's Hot Tamalie
Owner: Dan & Dawn Daley


37 Ch Starfire's Summer Fling
Breed: Retriever (Golden)
Sex: Bitch
AKC: SR 30519401
Date of Birth: September 13, 2005
Breeder: Maria Franklin
Sire: Ch Dreamwork's Freeze Frame
Dam: Ch Starfire Kala's B'Yond Belief
Owner: Maria & Paul Franklin


38 Ch Quailwood Mountain Odessey
Breed: Retriever (Golden)
Sex: Dog
AKC: SR 25078901
Date of Birth: March 17, 2005
Breeder: Marjorie R L Blake
Sire: Ch Daybreak Varsity Jump
Dam: Ch Quailwood Millenium Gold
Owner: Marjorie R L Blake & Dakota Skellenger


39 Ch Glengowan's Great Balls Of Fire
Breed: Retriever (Golden)
Sex: Dog
AKC: SR 37034505
Date of Birth: August 14, 2006
Breeder: Richard Caldwell
Sire: Ch Seeshaw Dylans Evening Blaze
Dam: Ch Glengowan's Sugar And Spice
Owner: Richard Caldwell & Patti Caldwell & Rebecca Gear


40 Ch Nautilus Ripley's Coyote Ugly
Breed: Retriever (Golden)
Sex: Bitch
AKC: SR 41539806
Date of Birth: December 09, 2006
Breeder: Julie MacKinnon
Sire: Ch Nautilus Joe Millionare
Dam: Ch Nautilus Purple Rain
Owner: Steve & Frances Brentson


41 Ch Ripley's Gold-Rush Lady In Red
Breed: Retriever (Golden)
Sex: Bitch
AKC: SR 42601903
Date of Birth: April 02, 2007
Breeder: Steven Brentson & Frances Brentson
Sire: Ch Nautilus Purple Passion
Dam: Ch Gold-Rush Ripley's Ruby Tuesday
Owner: Steven Brentson & R Ann Johnson


42 Ch Gold-Rush National Treasure
Breed: Retriever (Golden)
Sex: Dog
AKC: SR 19577201
Date of Birth: August 04, 2004
Breeder: R Ann Johnson
Sire: Ch Nubridge En-Joy I'm No Angel
Dam: Briggs' Gold Rush First Lady
Owner: R Ann Johnson


----------



## Debles

I think Johnny Bee Good is gorgeous. He's the only one I knew from last year and I don't know what the others look like but recognize the famous names of course.


----------



## Penny & Maggie's Mom

I'll be interested in seeing how the XCelerate dogs do... we saw several of them last summer and loved them. Opinions, Laura?????


----------



## AmbikaGR

Well will be pulling for two in particular.

The first is owned by a friend of mine 
Ch Nautilus Valentine's Danny Boy

The other is boy I got to see this past weekend at the LIGRC Specialty and I REALLY liked him and his pedigree a lot
Ch Glengowan's Great Balls Of Fire


----------



## Griffyn'sMom

Oooh! I'm voting for #29 Ch Honeybear's This One's 4 You!

I saw her at a show this past May and she's a lovely package! On the tiny side though IMHO.

Will it be on TV tonight? Anyone know?


----------



## AmbikaGR

It will be on cable.
From 8:00-9:00 it will be on the USA network
Then from 9:00-11:00 on CNBC

Tuesday Night it will be on USA from 8:00-11:00


----------



## buckeyegoldenmom

Wow I am excited! 7 of the dogs are either Tucker's &/or Muphy's sire, grand sire or half brother!

So are the numbers Ljilly28 posted the armband numbers?

Thanks


----------



## Penny & Maggie's Mom

buckeyegoldenmom said:


> Wow I am excited! 7 of the dogs are either Tucker's &/or Muphy's sire, grand sire or half brother!
> 
> So are the numbers Ljilly28 posted the armband numbers?
> 
> Thanks


 WOW !!!! Lucky you !!!


----------



## Penny & Maggie's Mom

AmbikaGR said:


> It will be on cable.
> From 8:00-9:00 it will be on the USA network
> Then from 9:00-11:00 on CNBC
> 
> Tuesday Night it will be on USA from 8:00-11:00


Thanks Hank. The DVR is set !!!


----------



## AmbikaGR

buckeyegoldenmom said:


> So are the numbers Ljilly28 posted the armband numbers?


 
Yes they are the armband numbers.


----------



## Ljilly28

There are four dogs missing who I can't believe are not in the ring. Does the perception of who/what style the judge likes,etc play a part in entering? Does timing matter, and Westminster only accepts a certain number of entries? I'd love to know a little more about what goes on behind the scenes before the breed is even judged, bc it seems like a few key faces are not there.


----------



## AmbikaGR

Ljilly28 said:


> There are four dogs missing who I can't believe are not in the ring. Does the perception of who/what style the judge likes,etc play a part in entering?


ABSOLUTELY! There are many who will not enter if they "know" they do not stand a chance under a certain judge.



Ljilly28 said:


> Does timing matter, and Westminster only accepts a certain number of entries?


Correct. The top five dogs in each breed over the previous year get automatic invites. All the other entries are on a first arrrived first in basis. And the show I believe fills within hours of it's opening. So some of the dogs you expected to see might not be there because the owner did not enter or the entry did not make it in time.
These are the five dogs that this year recieved invitations
CH Annecys Summits Thief In The Nite
CH Easthill Broxden The Fig Is Up
CH Goodtime's Johnny Bee Good
CH Pennylane Yankee Fall Classic
CH Toasty's Treasure Island
So as you can see all 5 invitees this year did enter.


----------



## historicprim

I'm rooting for Nate because I know him, I also like that Treasure bitch.
Here's a pic of Ch Gold-Rush National Cowboy


----------



## buckeyegoldenmom

buckeyegoldenmom said:


> Wow I am excited! 7 of the dogs are either Tucker's &/or Muphy's sire, grand sire or half brother!
> 
> So are the numbers Ljilly28 posted the armband numbers?
> 
> Thanks


OOPS...I mean the "sires" of 7 of the dogs are either Tucker &/or Murphy's sire, grand sire, or half brother! :uhoh:


----------



## K9-Design

Wow, I can't believe my favorites are bitches! 
Go Treasure, Tickle & Carly!
--Anney
& Fisher too


----------



## Ljilly28

A couple more inquiring mind type questions:

Do west coast people ever get tired of having to come all the way to NYC?

Why are so many dogs marked absent? I would think it would be a serious faux pas to take up an entry but not use it. However, lots and lots of people seem to do it. Is it because a dog is sick/out of coat/in heat etc, or a "political" strategy?

Does this judge favor the Nautilus style dogs, bc there are lots of them entered? I did see her in the ring in once in NH. For some reason, I have a vague impression she likes the Numoon dog(is it J.B?), but who knows where I hear these things.

Why do goldens never win Westminster? Since the pointer Holly can't enter, does that give a golden a better chance in the group? 

Finally, has PG seen any crazy PETA protests yet?


----------



## AmbikaGR

Ljilly28 said:


> Why are so many dogs marked absent? I would think it would be a serious faux pas to take up an entry but not use it. However, lots and lots of people seem to do it. Is it because a dog is sick/out of coat/in heat etc, or a "political" strategy?


Some folks, not the majority of absentees, will enter just to get their dog's name in the catalog as a momento. The majority are absent for the other reasons you state. (I will tell you up front that I have been known to look at the world thru rose colored glasses though)




Ljilly28 said:


> Does this judge favor the Nautilus style dogs, bc there are lots of them entered? I did see her in the ring in once in NH. For some reason, I have a vague impression she likes the Numoon dog(is it J.B?), but who knows where I hear these things.


Not sure what this judge preferences are. The Nautilus one dog I mention earlier was entered by his owner just so he could go and see his boy in the Garden. He is not expecting anything more than having a day to remeber for the rest of his life. 



Ljilly28 said:


> Why do goldens never win Westminster? Since the pointer Holly can't enter, does that give a golden a better chance in the group?


I can only hope that a Golden does not win BIS. Great to see them win the Sporting Group but the breed has enough problems without winning at the Garden.




Ljilly28 said:


> Finally, has PG seen any crazy PETA protests yet?


LORD, I hope not for THEIR SAKE!!! :crossfing


----------



## Ljilly28

AmbikaGR said:


> I can only hope that a Golden does not win BIS. Great to see them win the Sporting Group but the breed has enough problems without winning at the Garden.


I never thought of that, and it's such a wise, consoling point to make. .


----------



## Ljilly28

Okay, I'm off to make a handler armband/dog list while the terriers are on.
http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=220296


----------



## Ardeagold

> I can only hope that a Golden does not win BIS. Great to see them win the Sporting Group but the breed has enough problems without winning at the Garden.


I fully understand your feelings. After Josh (the Newf) won Westminster in 2004....well, let's just say that from 9 mos to 2 years later, the rescues were full.

HOWEVER, for those who have spent unbelievable amounts of time and money getting their dogs there, I know how important a win like Westminster is for them. 

It can help the breed...and hurt it. It's a double edged sword.

But I wish all of the Golden Retriever competitors there only the best. Good luck to all!

(The Newfs have had their day, now it's a Golden's turn!)


----------



## Ljilly28

Cheat Sheet!

#5 JONNY BEE http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=186455

#6 Rocket(but not Ripley's Rocket) http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=215073

#7 Newton ( former #1 golden) http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=144670

#8 Leaf http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=254957

#9 Nicolas http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=195361(Likely)

#10 Smuggler http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=247860

#11 Treasure(seems like the favorite) http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=176620 

#12 Allie http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=198295

#14 Player http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=177775

#15 Sailor http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=216799

#16 Chitchat http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=230030

#17 Jacque http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=209859

#18 Gibson k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=196766

#19 Maggie http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=170732

#20 Pink http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=220296

#21 Quinn http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=134963

#22 Whiz http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=219791

#23 Avery(9 years old)http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=64175

#24 Gino http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=84498

#25 Tickle http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=287961

#26 Archer http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=185289

#27 Gable http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=90405

#28 Danny http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=244754

#29 Karli http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=186430

#30 Casanova (Tally says Good Luck)http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=132960

#31 J.B http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=212746

#32 Louie http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=152426

#33 Albert http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=186120

#34 Hobo!!!!(11 years old) http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=29115

#35 Corona http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=224933

#36 George http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=108571

#37 Whoopie http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=227730

#38 Summit http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=216887

#39 Jerry Lee http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=234740

#40 Violet(GRF member dog) http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=248105

#41 Red(GRF member dog)http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=258299

#42 Nate http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=194854


----------



## GoldenJoyx'stwo

I didn't look through all the pedigrees, but boy does Summit have the Pebwin profile!


----------



## Ljilly28

I can't wait to see Hobo. He's there in the ring with his kids. It is interesting bc Casanova is there too with his own offspring. 

I wonder why Chaos isnt there?


----------



## DelmarvaGold

My vote goes for Jerry Lee. I think he is a beautiful boy and definitely on my list of stud dogs


----------



## goldengirls550

Jerry Lee is coming along nicely.

Wow. What a great line up of Goldens! It should be an exciting ring to watch today!


----------



## FranH

#18 Gibson is gorgeous!!


----------



## Ljilly28

Did anyone watch Judge Green excuse the dogs showed by handlers with conflicts of interest involving him? Wow.


----------



## AndyFarmer

Ljilly28 said:


> Did anyone watch Judge Green excuse the dogs showed by handlers with conflicts of interest involving him? Wow.


I saw that and was going to ask you all why that happened. If a handler is going to be disqualified, and the dog, why not use a different handler? I know nothing about showing, so this would be an education for me. Please explain...thanks!


----------



## Ljilly28

AndyFarmer said:


> I saw that and was going to ask you all why that happened. If a handler is going to be disqualified, and the dog, why not use a different handler? I know nothing about showing, so this would be an education for me. Please explain...thanks!


I don't know anything about the terrier world, but I think the judge was put on the spot by former assistants trying to show dogs to him, maybe thinking the connection/conflict wasn't that bad/clearcut(??). It is possible that he had handled one of the dogs himself previously. I bet the owners are livid. Hank or PG will know best. Pretty good ethics, there.


----------



## AndyFarmer

I'm trying to remember what the announcer said...something to the tune of the handler once worked under the judge, or similar. I feel bad for the dog that it didn't even get the chance to compete or be judged  I don't know, maybe everyone involved knew what was going on and took the risk.


----------



## MurphyTeller

AndyFarmer said:


> I saw that and was going to ask you all why that happened. If a handler is going to be disqualified, and the dog, why not use a different handler? I know nothing about showing, so this would be an education for me. Please explain...thanks!


Those handlers knew that they had a potential conflict if they won the breed with those dogs - I believe that they had worked for the judge in the past as assistant handlers - westminster is such a big deal that they entered dogs and took the chance they'd win the breed - knowing if they did win the breed they'd have to excuse themselves/be excused. Winning the breed and getting into the group is HUGE - that's why they brought the dogs in for group, got their lap around with the rest of the group and were excused - honorably excused. There was no dishonesty on anyone's part and everyone involved knew it was going to happen long before the dogs ever went into the ring. I think that's why they made such a big deal about it. It was a classy act that highlights what can be right about this sport...

Erica


----------



## MurphyTeller

Ljilly28 said:


> I don't know anything about the terrier world, but I think the judge was put on the spot by former assistants trying to show dogs to him, maybe thinking the connection/conflict wasn't that bad/clearcut(??). It is possible that he had handled one of the dogs himself previously. I bet the owners are livid. Hank or PG will know best. Pretty good ethics, there.


Nope - no one will be mad  It's part of the game - see my other post - it's good sportsmanship all around.
Erica


----------



## AndyFarmer

I understand now. Thank you for explaining. It was a gracious exit and very sportsmanlike, almost matter-of-factly; it did look expected.


----------



## Ljilly28

It's interesting, bc the dog show blogs and media are reporting it as if the dogs' entry was very unsportsmanlike, taking the spots away from a true competition between the full number of breeds. After all, the pointer Hollyberry is the #1 dog in the country many weeks, and she graciously did not enter.


----------



## MurphyTeller

Ljilly28 said:


> It's interesting, bc the dog show blogs and media are reporting it as if the dogs' entry was very unsportsmanlike, taking the spots away from a true competition between the full number of breeds. After all, the pointer Hollyberry is the #1 dog in the country many weeks, and she graciously did not enter.


I believe that the pointer's conflict was in the breed ring - the two terrier's conflict was in the group ring. I look at it this way - if there was no conflict in the breed ring those dogs won the breed outright - beating the other airdales for example...If the pointer's conflict was in the breed ring she could not have showed at all...

I don't have a problem with it honestly.
Erica


----------



## dannyra

I know nothing about dog shows, but I think I'll be rooting for Avery 9 year old, and has a picture of him bringing in a duck on his K9data. I also like Hobo, stunning 11 yo.


----------



## avincent52

I'm rooting for Chaos.

I wish I had known he wasn't going to be entered before I got the tattoo.


----------



## Kohanagold

AmbikaGR said:


> I can only hope that a Golden does not win BIS. Great to see them win the Sporting Group but the breed has enough problems without winning at the Garden.


I completely agree! I want them all to do well, but..... I felt like it was kindof a silly thing to say, being a golden person, but you make it sound so much less contradictory. BJ


----------



## Penny & Maggie's Mom

WOW... that's really nasty looking!!! I didn't know you were in to "do it yourself" tattoo/mutilation!!! ROFL No wonder he's a no show.


----------



## AndyFarmer

Allen, seriously, is that your arm? ICK


----------



## Ash

Could someone do my a huge favour and post a direct link to the Breed Entries? WKC website is far tooooo huge for me to load on dial up   

Thanks in advance, its appreciated!!


----------



## FranH

Ash said:


> Could someone do my a huge favour and post a direct link to the Breed Entries? WKC website is far tooooo huge for me to load on dial up
> 
> Thanks in advance, its appreciated!!


Here ya go....


http://www.westminsterkennelclub.org/2009/entries/breed/index.html


----------



## agoldenliferanch

http://www.westminsterkennelclub.org/2009/results/breed/index2.html

Here it is Ash, however, I just checked and the goldens aren't posted yet.


----------



## Ash

Thanks guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## AmbikaGR

Not yet posted on the Westminster website but I heard that Treasure was BOB 
and Johnny B Good BOS


----------



## avincent52

AndyFarmer said:


> Allen, seriously, is that your arm? ICK


What? You don't have a prison tattoo of the call name of your favorite show Golden on your arm?


----------



## Swanolck

Allen, you are too funny!! 


So help me understand this. 

When a dog wins Best of Breed, what happens next?


----------



## AmbikaGR

Swanolck said:


> When a dog wins Best of Breed, what happens next?


It means it goes on to compete for Best in the Sporting Group which in this case will be tonight. Then the winners of the seven different groups will compete for BIS (Best in Show)


----------



## Swanolck

AmbikaGR said:


> It means it goes on to compete for Best in the Sporting Group which in this case will be tonight. Then the winners of the seven different groups will compete for BIS (Best in Show)


Thanks Hank. The breeder I got my new puppy from won best of breed for the Newfoundlands. Now they will be on TV tonight competing against the rest for best in the working dogs? This is so new and exciting for me!!


----------



## AmbikaGR

Swanolck said:


> Thanks Hank. The breeder I got my new puppy from won best of breed for the Newfoundlands. Now they will be on TV tonight competing against the rest for best in the working dogs? This is so new and exciting for me!!


Well then I will join you in rooting for the Newfie tonight! :wavey:


----------



## avincent52

Swanolck said:


> Allen, you are too funny!!
> 
> 
> So help me understand this.
> 
> When a dog wins Best of Breed, what happens next?


A rap video, of course. But only if it's Chaos, yo!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uPlIaF65PM


----------



## Pointgold

Ljilly28 said:


> Did anyone watch Judge Green excuse the dogs showed by handlers with conflicts of interest involving him? Wow.


We were ringside when it occurred.


----------



## AndyFarmer

avincent52 said:


> What? You don't have a prison tattoo of the call name of your favorite show Golden on your arm?


Silly! Of course I do, but its on my arse!!!! LOL


----------



## missmarstar

Sorry if this is a dumb question, and I haven't taken the time to just look myself.. 

Is this broadcast on tv? If so, when? The dogs and I love watching dog shows


----------



## Pointgold

Ljilly28 said:


> I don't know anything about the terrier world, but I think the judge was put on the spot by former assistants trying to show dogs to him, maybe thinking the connection/conflict wasn't that bad/clearcut(??). It is possible that he had handled one of the dogs himself previously. I bet the owners are livid. Hank or PG will know best. Pretty good ethics, there.


 
This would (should) happen in any group. He had handled one of the dogs and apprenticed Ernesto. Ernesto wanted the breed points on both dogs that were earned by going BOB, and the prestige of a BOB at the Garden. Here's where I have a problem with it - he knew that if he won the breed, he had to go into the Group ring. At the Garden, if a breed was there and was awarded BOB, it had to represent its breed in the Group. He knew he'd be excused. I'm sorry, but if I were to be the owner or handler of the BOS dog, I'd be livid. My dog could have won it and been in the group with a chance at winning or placing. It is really bad form to have pulled what Ernesto did - he essentially robbed other dogs of the chance at a Group placement, as well as putting the judge on the spot.


----------



## dannyra

There needs to be a side bet judging during dogs shows. Most awkward running handler....the competition would be fierce.

I know it's probably difficult to do that half jog/half walk, but I can't seem to focus on the dog when they take them out. I'm always wondering....is the handler going to trip and fall now.......how about NOW. Whewww! That handler stayed upright.


----------



## AmbikaGR

Pointgold said:


> This would (should) happen in any group. He had handled one of the dogs and apprenticed Ernesto. Ernesto wanted the breed points on both dogs that were earned by going BOB, and the prestige of a BOB at the Garden. Here's where I have a problem with it - he knew that if he won the breed, he had to go into the Group ring. At the Garden, if a breed was there and was awarded BOB, it had to represent its breed in the Group. He knew he'd be excused. I'm sorry, but if I were to be the owner or handler of the BOS dog, I'd be livid. My dog could have won it and been in the group with a chance at winning or placing. It is really bad form to have pulled what Ernesto did - he essentially robbed other dogs of the chance at a Group placement, as well as putting the judge on the spot.


Could he not have handed the dog off to another handler for the Group?


----------



## agoldenliferanch

And the winners are - 

RETRIEVER (GOLDEN)
*Judge:* Mrs. Nancy Arbuckle
*Day:* February 10, 2009
*Time:* 12:15
*Ring:* 3










11 Ch Toasty's Treasure Island 
*Breed:* Retriever (Golden)
*Sex:* Bitch
*AKC:* SR 18885402
*Date of Birth:* June 12, 2004
*Breeder:* Pamela Oxenberg & Jerome Oxenberg
*Sire:* Ch Happy Hour Highmark Toasty
*Dam:* Ch Toasty's Josie
*Owner:* Pamela Oxenberg & Jerome Oxenberg & Carolee Douglas & Jane Bares











5 Ch Goodtime's Johnny Bee Good 
*Breed:* Retriever (Golden)
*Sex:* Dog
*AKC:* SR 25411805
*Date of Birth:* February 09, 2005
*Breeder:* Kathy Smith & Catherine McElroy
*Sire:* Ch Scion Oughta Be A Law NA NAJ
*Dam:* Ch Goodtime's Cassiopeia
*Owner:* Paula Petelle & Kathy L Smith & Jane Alston-Myers & Greg Myers
*Photos:* Breed judging











9 Ch Easthill Broxden Pop Star 
*Breed:* Retriever (Golden)
*Sex:* Dog
*AKC:* SR 22568002
*Date of Birth:* October 03, 2004
*Breeder:* Sandra Kim Hoffen & Amy Rodrigues
*Sire:* Ch Faera's Starlight
*Dam:* Ch Teran's Impeachable Offense
*Owner:* Sandra Hoffen & Amy Rodrigues-Booth & Charma & Megan Hill


12 Ch Pennylane Yankee Fall Classic 
*Breed:* Retriever (Golden)
*Sex:* Bitch
*AKC:* SR 21871701
*Date of Birth:* November 17, 2004
*Breeder:* Beryl Scaggs & Anthony Scaggs
*Sire:* Ch Waynewood's Classic Gold
*Dam:* Ch Pennylaneyankeecenterfieldstar
*Owner:* Beryl Scaggs & Anthony Scaggs


18 Ch Birnam Wood's Hoot Gibson 
*Breed:* Retriever (Golden)
*Sex:* Dog
*AKC:* SR 29664001
*Date of Birth:* April 06, 2005
*Breeder:* Sylvia Donahey & Debra Denardi
*Sire:* Ch Calypso's Udderwise Alndon
*Dam:* Ch Birnam Wood's Take Center Stage
*Owner:* Sylvia Donahey & William J Feeney


19 Ch Traeloch's Maggie Mae 
*Breed:* Retriever (Golden)
*Sex:* Bitch
*AKC:* SR 22763703
*Date of Birth:* November 27, 2004
*Breeder:* Patricia Ann Flanagan
*Sire:* Ch Sunkota's Phorgone Conclusion
*Dam:* Ch Gosling's I'll Do It My Way
*Owner:* Loretta Puet

http://www.westminsterkennelclub.org/2009/results/breed/golden.html


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## Pointgold

AmbikaGR said:


> Could he not have handed the dog off to another handler for the Group?


He won breeds with 2 dogs, handed one off, and stayed on the other. It's insulting to Peter Green because apparently he thought that maybe he "wouldn't notice". The point anyway, I think, was more the dogs than the handlers - Peter lived with and showed them, so could not judge them. Shoot, handlers show to judges that they worked for when the judge was a handler and they apprenticed, etc etc. Hard to avoid in this game. I think there is a time limit involved as to how long before you can, etc (I'll check for anyone interested).


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## Pointgold

There have been some HUGE upsets thus far, and I believe that it is to make room for Gabrielle Rangel's Scotty to go BIS. Personally, I think that the dog could win it on his own merits, but hey - that's the game! :scratchch


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## AmbikaGR

Pointgold said:


> I think there is a time limit involved as to how long before you can, etc (I'll check for anyone interested).


The time limit is one year from the date of the show.


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## historicprim

Yeah...a friend of ours threw classes won BOS with her Komondor..


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## Pointgold

AmbikaGR said:


> The time limit is one year from the date of the show.


That's what I had thought.


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## Ash

LOL I'll probably get shot at and perhaps there is something I don't know.............. but why is it Treasure has no clearneces???????? Priviate replies are welcome.


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## 3459

Ash said:


> LOL I'll probably get shot at and perhaps there is something I don't know.............. but why is it Treasure has no clearneces???????? Priviate replies are welcome.


Ah, shucks, Ash, private replies? I want to hear the answer to your question. :


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## Ash

LOL me too but I haven't got one or got one yet.


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## AmbikaGR

She does have hips, elbows, and CERF listed on OFA site.


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## Debles

They just had a golden from Westminster on Inside Edition! LOL! The story was about how many people couldn't afford to go this year due to the economy.


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## Ash

I wonder why she is coming 5 years and has never had a litter (or that I know of)?? I know not everyone breeds their bitches right away but 5 years and all the money is to showing for what? Not that I'm trying to take away from her winnings just a questions that crossed my mind quite a bit in the last year or so.


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## AmbikaGR

Ash said:


> I wonder why she is coming 5 years and has never had a litter (or that I know of)?? I know not everyone breeds their bitches right away but 5 years and all the money is to showing for what? Not that I'm trying to take away from her winnings just a questions that crossed my mind quite a bit in the last year or so.


My impression is that they have been preparing for "THIS" year to come.
BOB at the National Specialty and BOB at Westminster. Not an easy feat for any dog but even more difficult for a bitch. The boys do not need to take time off for litters whidle fo a bitch it takes them out of the circuit for a good year. I would expect her to take some time off now for breeding.


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## K9-Design

Treasure will stay out with Clint for the rest of the year, with puppies in 2010.
Pam is looking for boyfriends for Treasure.
From the horse's mouth 
--Anney


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## Ljilly28

Was Hobo in the ring?

Can you IMAGINE the waiting list for the waiting list for the waiting list for Treasure pups . . .? I bet there is no way any amount of money could buy one.

PG, congratulations to Gibson on his Jam. Fenway's sis Maggie got one too. Not so much Casanova. . . Well, I won't tell Tally.


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## Tahnee GR

Woo Hoo! Not Golden but my girl friend Patti's Pug won the Breed!!

Ch Tupelo Shoboat Tu China Tu 

She is the Tupelo on some of my old dogs


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## Angel_Kody

Ok...perhaps a dumb question from someone trying to learn...

Which one gets to go into the ring tonight for the group? BOB...I'm assuming...not BOS?

*Oops...Nevermind...I just found the answer BOB...duh.*


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## historicprim

Here's the breed for those wanting to watch
WOW they are some beautiful goldens
http://video.westminsterkennelclub.org/player/?id=1008424


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## Ljilly28

You can tell that some people on the video are not too aware they're being recorded.


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## Ardeagold

Treasure is a beautiful girl! It's a shame she didn't win, but winning Breed at Westminster is quite an honor.

I'm sure she'll have potential boyfriends lined up around the block!!

If it wasn't Treasure's time to win, I'm glad Stump did! I haven't seen him since his Group win in 2004 at Westminster! He looks wonderful!! (Josh the Newf beat him that year....that's why I remember him so clearly)

My friend won BOS with her Sussex (against Stump) at Westminster today. The bitch is of her breeding, plus she's the handler/owner. She's SO excited!! What an honor!

She's the one who taught me what little I know about handling Newfs. She used to show Newfs years ago.


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## Pointgold

Stump was a surprise! Not much was being said about Scott bringing him out of retirement - all the talk was about the way being paved for the Scotty to go BIS. When Stumpy won the Group, I figured there was a new "detour"! LOL He showed like a million bucks. I thought that Sari would use either him or the Brussels, another great dog.
Congrats to ALL!


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## Melliman

Show newbie question: How is it physically possible that a 10 year-old dog represents its standard better than any of the younger dogs? Yes, it's a feel good story, but it defies logic to me.


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## avincent52

Melliman said:


> Show newbie question: How is it physically possible that a 10 year-old dog represents its standard better than any of the younger dogs? Yes, it's a feel good story, but it defies logic to me.


Steroids. Performance enhancing drugs. He's on the juice. 

Actually Stump seems like a pretty cool dog, and it's a really great story. If you think that doesn't affect the judging, then you're forgetting that this is broadcast on USA. 

BTW, I loved Mary Carillo's rather snarky commentary. I think she's one of the best in the business dong tennis. FWIW, she's also the answer to a trivia question. With whom did John McEnroe win his first grand slam title: He won the 1977 French Open Mixed with Carillo who was his neighbor in Douglaston . 

I'm a dog show newbie, and I must say that so many of the dogs, even the group winners, really looked like hairdos with legs.

Really, there are only a handful of dogs I saw on tv--Goldens, Labs, Tollers and a few odd things like the Italian greyhound--that I would rather have than a random mixed breed from the Newark pound. 

And none I'd rather have than Tessie. 











Oooh, Stump, you're sooooo dreamy


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## Doolin

Believe it or not it is very possible for a 10 year old dog to best represent the standard. Just because a dog is younger doesn't mean it has better structure. Did anyone see Hobo moving, he still looks great. If you met him in person you would swear he is no older then 5 or 6. I remember a golden bitch named "Paris" Summits Carrera Dom Perignon, she outmoved anything I saw at my first dog show(I would have swore there was no way she was a veteran). When a dog has great strucutre/movement, they are almost timeless!


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## GoldenGratitude

I thought it was really great that Stump won. He's a really neat dog and not only is his story cool but I think it says alot about older dogs to the public in general. Maybe it will make the public value older dogs more. Too many times it seems like no one wants them when they get to be seniors - and it's so so sad. Maybe a 10-yr old winning Westminister will help more seniors get adopted. I hope so.


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## avincent52

GoldenGratitude said:


> I thought it was really great that Stump won. He's a really neat dog and not only is his story cool but I think it says alot about older dogs to the public in general. Maybe it will make the public value older dogs more. Too many times it seems like no one wants them when they get to be seniors - and it's so so sad. Maybe a 10-yr old winning Westminister will help more seniors get adopted. I hope so.


Good point and I hope you're right.


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## Melliman

Doolin said:


> Believe it or not it is very possible for a 10 year old dog to best represent the standard. Just because a dog is younger doesn't mean it has better structure. Did anyone see Hobo moving, he still looks great. If you met him in person you would swear he is no older then 5 or 6. I remember a golden bitch named "Paris" Summits Carrera Dom Perignon, she outmoved anything I saw at my first dog show(I would have swore there was no way she was a veteran). When a dog has great strucutre/movement, they are almost timeless!


Still defies logic to me. Yes, he might have better structure than many younger dogs, but EVERY younger dog? 2500 dogs - 162 breeds? Unlike humans, don't dogs get pot bellies, compressed spines, slumped shoulders, double chins and gray hair? Don't they hunch over and limp? Put into human terms, that's like saying my structure could be better than 2500 Brad Pitt's - only my mother might think that (prolly not)!

Call me a cynic, but I consider it a feel-good award, and there's nothing wrong with that. I just wasn't aware that it worked that way.

Mac - you going to the IKC show?


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## Angel_Kody

historicprim said:


> Here's the breed for those wanting to watch
> WOW they are some beautiful goldens
> http://video.westminsterkennelclub.org/player/?id=1008424


 
I loved watching this video! I love all of tha beautiful wagging tails at the end after the winner is chosen. The dogs don't care who won...they are all just as happy as ever!  That's a good lesson for us.


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## AmbikaGR

Melliman said:


> Still defies logic to me. Yes, he might have better structure than many younger dogs, but EVERY younger dog? 2500 dogs - 162 breeds? Unlike humans, don't dogs get pot bellies, compressed spines, slumped shoulders, double chins and gray hair? Don't they hunch over and limp? Put into human terms, that's like saying my structure could be better than 2500 Brad Pitt's - only my mother might think that (prolly not)!
> 
> Call me a cynic, but I consider it a feel-good award, and there's nothing wrong with that. I just wasn't aware that it worked that way.
> 
> Mac - you going to the IKC show?


Fortuanately/unfortunately dogs are not left to fall to their own devices. They can not go open the frig and grab a beer, or go the pantry and grab a bag of chips. If we decide that we really don't want to go do our daily run we don't. We are quite commonly our own worse enemies.
Now dogs get to eat what we give them, and if the owner/handler is dedicated to the showing of the dog they make sure they get the best nutrition and all the exercise they require. And there are folks out there that do the same for themselves but it is not the norm as it is not in doogs. Who here remembers Jack LaLane? At 70 years old he was still a better physical specimen than any 20 year old. 
And lastly did anyone else hear the judge ask the handler a question immediately after awarding BIS? I swear she said "Who is that dog?" I truly believe she had no idea as Stump had been retired for years and there was not a lot of press about his coming back out.


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## Ljilly28

I thought Spirit had it for sure, but I have a perfect record of choosing incorrectly. I do about the same with the Belmont, Preakness, and Derby. . .


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## historicprim

Pointgold said:


> Stump was a surprise! Not much was being said about Scott bringing him out of retirement - all the talk was about the way being paved for the Scotty to go BIS. When Stumpy won the Group, I figured there was a new "detour"! LOL He showed like a million bucks. I thought that Sari would use either him or the Brussels, another great dog.
> Congrats to ALL!


 
I thought for sure the Scotty was going to win lastnight, I kept telling my husband there's the winner. I watched the breed on Video (Scotty's) and was surprised to see Margery Goode handling one. Thought she was only handling Sealyham Terrier's. We met her at the Trenton kennel club last year and spoke with her about her breed. 
PG thanks for keeping us all posted yesterday
Peg


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## K9-Design

Peg -- Margery handles a lot of different terriers, I've seen her with a variety of the little guys.
Melliman -- remember, dog show judges are comparing each dog to their breed standard, not to each other. So Stump must have been closer to the perfect Sussex Spaniel as described by that breed standard, than the Scottie was to the Scottie standard, Poodle to the poodle standard, etc, in that judge's opinion on that day.
Standards say nothing of age, dogs of all ages are compared to the same standard within their breed.
Structure and type do not go away with age. And what better proof of good structure, than for it to hold up over time?
Believe it or not dogs do not get overweight, out of condition, scruffy, gimpy and generally dissolve into a huge mess as they age -- IF THE OWNERS TAKE CARE OF THEM and they have the good structure to hold up over time. 
--Anney


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## Ljilly28

Here's a good little glimpse of Stump in 2004. Since he won the group then too, you know he must be a splendid little spaniel. This is the year Newfoundland Josh won, and there is so way not to smile while watching it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcDIgPHuIjY

Which golden did Mark Desrosiers show?


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## Kohanagold

Melliman said:


> Still defies logic to me. Yes, he might have better structure than many younger dogs, but EVERY younger dog? 2500 dogs - 162 breeds? Unlike humans, don't dogs get pot bellies, compressed spines, slumped shoulders, double chins and gray hair? Don't they hunch over and limp? Put into human terms, that's like saying my structure could be better than 2500 Brad Pitt's - only my mother might think that (prolly not)!
> 
> Call me a cynic, but I consider it a feel-good award, and there's nothing wrong with that. I just wasn't aware that it worked that way.
> 
> Mac - you going to the IKC show?


Perhaps overexaggerated, but any dog can win in their prime. A *truly* well put together, well structured dog will continue to be a great mover, and great shower well into old age. You can see that best when a dog enters the veterans class and has continued to hold it together. In goldens, a veteran that is still in the field retrieving ducks is an amazing thing. A dog that is poorly put together would likely lose its efficiency as it ages, but one that is structurally sound will not. A young dog is able to compensate for it's structural shortcomings with muscle and energy. An older dog relies strictly on what's there and perhaps wouldn't have the energy to keep up and compensate for its shortcomings.

Basically, its not just a "feel good" story. The judge walks into the ring, not knowing what breeds s/he will see, much less individual dogs. Every one of those dogs has a story and every one of them had to fight one advesity or another to get there. But I think discounting a dog based on age is a really unfair assessment, and truthfully, the reverse of what'd you'd think. Its more of a testiment to the quality of the dog, the owners, the handlers, etc, that the dog is still in the running, despite it not being in it's "prime". 

But regardless, its still one person's opinion... until next year. BJ


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## Romeo1

Here's a great link that shows all the Westminister Goldens.

http://video.westminsterkennelclub.org/player/?id=1008424


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## Kohanagold

Romeo said:


> Here's a great link that shows all the Westminister Goldens.
> 
> http://video.westminsterkennelclub.org/player/?id=1008424


Is anyone else having trouble with the breed video? I get the pedigree commercial at the start and then a very quick black screen with writing on it comes up, and then "click to play the video" or something like that. Just curious if I'm the only one... BJ


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## Romeo1

Kohanagold said:


> Is anyone else having trouble with the breed video? I get the pedigree commercial at the start and then a very quick black screen with writing on it comes up, and then "click to play the video" or something like that. Just curious if I'm the only one... BJ


I had that problem one time, but if you keep refreshing the page it will work. That's a great video and the dogs are so incredibly beautiful!


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## Kohanagold

Romeo said:


> I had that problem one time, but if you keep refreshing the page it will work. That's a great video and the dogs are so incredibly beautiful!


Nope... no such luck. I can play other breeds, and it plays the pedigree thing at the start, but I did manage to get a screen shot this time. It flashes a black screen with white writing saying "We're sorry but the clip you selected isn't available from your location. Please select another clip". I'm not entirely sure what that's supposed to mean... BJ


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## AmbikaGR

Well BJ I think it is a conspiracy! 
Not really. When I first tried it it said "The website is too busy at this time. Try again later" 
tried it again and it actually played just now for me, BUT I got the Toyota commercial first.


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## DUSTYRD2

Hey BJ, I'm having the same problem with the video. I did manage to get the sporting group judging, but not the breed video. I'm getting the same thing as you. GRRRRRRRRRRRRR :yuck:

I watched last years breed judging and I almost broke down. I thought about Dusty and how it was predicted he would someday get to Westminster.


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## Romeo1

Does anyone here have showdogs who have been to Westminister?


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## AmbikaGR

Kohanagold said:


> Is anyone else having trouble with the breed video? I get the pedigree commercial at the start and then a very quick black screen with writing on it comes up, and then "click to play the video" or something like that. Just curious if I'm the only one... BJ





DUSTYRD2 said:


> Hey BJ, I'm having the same problem with the video. I did manage to get the sporting group judging, but not the breed video. I'm getting the same thing as you. GRRRRRRRRRRRRR :yuck:
> 
> I watched last years breed judging and I almost broke down. I thought about Dusty and how it was predicted he would someday get to Westminster.


Well now *I AM *seeing a trend. You are both Canadians, maybe the video is being hung up at a border inspection*. :bowrofl:*


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## DUSTYRD2

Ha Ha, that must be it Hank. So much for our Free Trade agreement! LOL


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## Kohanagold

LOL... okay, revisiting the conspiracy theory, considering I can watch all the other breeds (at least I haven't found one yet, other than goldens, that I cant watch). It must be a conspiracy.... Canadian golden lovers... they must know more about us than we think. LOL.

Judie, I know Dusty would've given them all a run for their money. Hugs! 

Paige's Aunt Pinkie won breed 7 years ago (my gosh, where'd the time go?? RIP you beautiful girl). Sydney's 3rd cousin, Andy (Andy's great grandmother is Sydney's grandmother), won the group 2 yrs ago. There've been others but I dont think they've made it past the breed level. As for my dogs personally, nope... as much as I'd love to go, its probably not in anywhere close to my near future. BJ


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## Pointgold

Melliman said:


> Still defies logic to me. Yes, he might have better structure than many younger dogs, but EVERY younger dog? 2500 dogs - 162 breeds? Unlike humans, don't dogs get pot bellies, compressed spines, slumped shoulders, double chins and gray hair? Don't they hunch over and limp? Put into human terms, that's like saying my structure could be better than 2500 Brad Pitt's - only my mother might think that (prolly not)!
> 
> Call me a cynic, but I consider it a feel-good award, and there's nothing wrong with that. I just wasn't aware that it worked that way.
> 
> Mac - you going to the IKC show?


 
Stump was in excellent condition. And, as an excellent representative of his breed structurally and on the move, deserved it. He epitomized his breed standard better than the others did theirs, in the judges opinion, at that time. 

I won a Specialty BOB from the veterans class, and it is done fairly regularly in several breeds.


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## MillysMom

Forgive me if this is a stupid question, I am still very new to Goldens and dog shows, and am trying to learn as much as possible.

Are there any ways to enhance the movement of an older dog? I know with age can come stiffness, and was wondering if things like Adequan, daily Cosequin or glucosamine are allowed to be used on a show dog? Do they drug test the dogs? Would this mask stiffness? Especially Adequan, as it is injected, and can really make a huge difference (I haven’t used it in dogs, but I have in horses and it is like night and day with the way an older horse’s movement changes with the stuff). I know when I put my old Beagle on Cosequin (granted this is so much milder than injecting Adequan) with in 3 weeks she went from having trouble walking and completely unable to climb the stairs off the porch to running around the farm like she did when she was 5.


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## tippykayak

Melliman said:


> Still defies logic to me. Yes, he might have better structure than many younger dogs, but EVERY younger dog? 2500 dogs - 162 breeds? Unlike humans, don't dogs get pot bellies, compressed spines, slumped shoulders, double chins and gray hair? Don't they hunch over and limp? Put into human terms, that's like saying my structure could be better than 2500 Brad Pitt's - only my mother might think that (prolly not)!


I had a similar thought, but then I was thinking that the best test of truly excellent structure would be time. In that sense, age could be thought of as an asset, sort of the proof that all the structure you're seeing is not only correct but enduringly so. If he can still move that well at 10, he must be put together almost perfectly.


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