# Unexpected food aggression



## markhs (May 20, 2010)

I apologize for the very long post but I hope anyone with food possessiveness or aggression knowledge will bear with me. I have an issue that has me worried and uncertain whether to take further action. While I am prepared to do whatever is necessary, I think and hope the aggression I experienced may be due more to my ignorance than a true behavioral problem.

Background:
My golden, Harley, is nine months old and is normally a very sweet loyal companion. He is my first dog and we are very close. I can put my hands in his food bowl while he is eating and take the bowl away. I can get him to drop items he finds on the street or if someone in our family drops something tasty on the floor. I am able to command him to ‘open’ and he will (sometime reluctantly) open his mouth for me to pull unwanted items from his mouth. This led me to believe that I was safe in absolutely monitoring what Harley eats. I trusted him completely. 

Incident 1:
After mentioning that my dog didn't seem to distinguish treats as high value or low value, someone suggested hot dogs pieces. I cut up a hot dog and yes, this was definitely something Harley considered 'high value'. 

After treating Harley to a few pieces of hot dog, my wife decided to stuff a Kong with the left overs. While he was negotiating the Kong at my feet we started watching TV. After a while I looked down to find the Kong ripped to shreds and that he had a rather large piece in his mouth. I instinctively plunged my hand into his mouth to take this away. He instantly started growling aggressively and bit my hand several times causing numerous puncture wounds as I was trying to pull my hand away. 

After I cleansing my hand and taking some time to mentally recover, I approached Harley who was started whimpering and attempting to lick my hand. It took me a few days to trust him enough to have anything to do with him. This seemed as hard on him as it was on me (of course I was the one who had an injured hand.).

Incident 2:
New Year’s Eve, our family celebrated with some hors d'oeuvres which included Buffalo wings. Harley was at my grown daughter’s feet when she dropped a wing on the carpet. She told Harley to leave it and picked it up. A bit later Harley started chewing the carpet where the wing had fallen. She commanded leave it and started to pull him away when he became aggressive, growled and bit her in a manner similar to my incident. While this was happening I immediately pounced on Harley grabbing both sides of his neck, pulling him to the ground and yelling commands at him (no, drop etc.). I feared the worse, thinking my daughter’s hand was injured as mine was but to my surprise she wasn’t physically injured.

The whole family instantly surrounded Harley and vigorously reprimanded him, he retreated to his bed. He looked so sad and pathetic it was all any of us could do not to comfort him. Not a good start to the New Year.

Currently:
My assumption is that I made the mistake of getting near Harley’s mouth without appropriate warning and that I have something to learn about animal behavior. My daughter did give warning and commands to him but didn’t wait for much of a response. I am now no longer comfortable giving him any high value treat and have lost some trust of my dog. Kong’s and food related toys are out. I mentioned this to a person that has had a few Goldens and he thought I was crazy to get in the way of a dog eating human food. I now believe I forgot Harley was an animal who can be territorial with his food. Since these incidents he and I are together as much as ever but I am not as trusting to have my hands near his mouth and I am very worried that this may occur again.


My Question:

Is this a behavior problem that needs professional treatment, better training or is this normal dog behavior? Should I be concerned about Harley with others, especially around food?


----------



## Heidi36oh (Feb 27, 2007)

I really don't know what to tell you, I have four and none are food aggressive, hope some other members have some suggestions for you.


----------



## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Most dogs will consider resource guarding at some point in time --- when all the elements of their version of a "perfect storm" are in place... i.e., the "right" treat that to them was "worth the fight" and the right "fight" offered by another animal or the owner.

Doesn't make him a horrible dog -- and if you've only had two incidents, it's good that you're catching it early and looking for help.

With any aggression that causes physical damage (dogs don't *have* to break skin when they bite - there are several levels of biting before actually breaking skin) I strongly suggest working with a qualified trainer. I know of two that I would HIGHLY recommend in WA. Not sure if either are close to you, but if the drive is reasonable, it would definitely be worth it:

1. In Woodinville -- Steve & Jen White Welcome to Rivendale Learning Center

2. In Tacoma -- Kathy Sdao Bright Spot Dog Training & Kathy Sdao, Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist (associate), Tacoma, Washington

In the meantime, keep two things in mind:

Don't try and fish things out of your dog's mouth. Work a trade. You want non-confrontational interaction when it comes to getting stuff back.

The issue with your daughter was probably the combo of guarding the "wing sauce" on the floor + her trying to pull him away when he was amped up by the sauce. Avoid pulling him. Coax, encourage - even lead with a treat if you have to. Remember - it's all about managing things to prevent further rehearsal of unwanted behavior while you're working toward getting a solid behavior modification plan in place with the help of a trainer.

And finally ---- and I know this is the hardest one for us humans to get ------ if an issue crops up, it's really better NOT to reprimand after-the-fact. The dog is already in conflict when he displays the act of aggression. Having his owner get all growly on top of it usually doesn't help in the long term. Try and stay calm and remember the goal is to keep everyone safe.


----------



## Shadowboy22 (Jul 18, 2010)

Just posted my own threat because we are having the same problem. You can try and find it to read the story. We have tried all the tips and tricks and its getting worse. I HOPE YOU HAVE A BETTER OUTCOME because this is traumatizing =( Right away try and stop this because its absolutely horrible. From this post you sound like you will have a positive outcome because its a new behavior. GOODLUCK


----------



## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Shadowboy22 said:


> Just posted my own threat because we are having the same problem. You can try and find it to read the story. We have tried all the tips and tricks and its getting worse. I HOPE YOU HAVE A BETTER OUTCOME because this is traumatizing =( Right away try and stop this because its absolutely horrible. From this post you sound like you will have a positive outcome because its a new behavior. GOODLUCK


What have you been doing and how is it getting worse?

If you've been working with tips/suggestions from friends or over the Internet, I'd strongly suggest a lesson with a qualified, positive-reinforcement trainer. If you tell us what city you're in, we might be able to refer someone.

Resource guarding can often be quite easy to improve and learn to manage any residual behavior to that everyone is safe and happy.


----------



## RaeRae1706 (Nov 4, 2010)

I am hoping that someone can give me suggestions. Not to steal a thread, but I posted this in the puppy area with no responses, so i am hoping that someone here can help. Here is the link to my post.

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...-up-1-year/91339-new-food-toy-aggression.html


----------



## Braccarius (Sep 8, 2008)

I am going to be honest. A dog biting you over any "resource" is NOT normal. This is definitely an abherrant behaviour not something common to the Golden Retriever breed. 

The following are things that have worked for me. But, all dogs are different and if you are at the stage where you're getting bitten you need professional assistance.

*You're not there to Challenge*
I don't challenge Harley for ANYTHING he has. I don't have to. If he has something he considers "high value" I'll have something on hand that he'll consider "higher value". We're consistently trading item for item and everytime he does it he gets a lot of praise. Going in with your voice raised with stern commands puts your dog into a position where he has two choices: 

- Give in (and definitely lose the item they "own")
- Fight back (and possibly keep the item they "own")

By bringing in a redirection on a higher value treat you completely avoid resource challenges or having to exert your will.

*Body Language*
One time Harley had a chicken bone... good luck finding a higher value treat then a juicy yummy chicken bone. He sat there, jaw clamped shut not moving and giving me "the eye". I looked at him sitting there and his body langauge pretty much said "this is mine... good luck getting it". Just his whole demeanour said I am NOT giving this up. But, his method was a passive resistance of not opening his mouth no matter what. Read their body language before you run in there guns blazing.... He is LETTING you know well before you get to that point how he's feeling about something.

*Talk to Them*
So, I'm sitting there my dog has his jaw clamped around a chicken bone so tight that his head is bulging. I have two choices

- I could grab his head and curl my fingers into his gum and force his mouth open using pain compliance
- redirect. 

I chose the latter and looked at him and said "What do you got Harley" in a calm playful voice. Why? Because it changes his demeanour from confrontational. "Harley come show dad what you got" Believe it or not he then got up and walked toward me with his tail swaying back and forth and when I gave the "give" command he coughed it up immediately. Were we competing for a resource? Absolutely, but that doesn't mean that I need to confront him about a resource... a little bit of sugar brought the sweetness back out of my boy. 

When something isn't working (such as the "give" command), switch it up. Give a command OTHER then "give" or "drop it". Give to a dog means "give up" and even Miri isn't one to give up something she wants. If you say "give" and they don't cough it up, stand 5-10 feet away and try "come". My two will usually follow the come command even when give isn't working. Even if they bring the object they want they are now in a "following orders" mind set. If they come when called chances are your next "give" is going to net results. Or, at the very least their resistance is reduced.

*Obedience*
Go do obedience classes. All dogs should have to do obedience training. It creates a stronger bond with the owner, fosters respect, teaches the dog positive reinforcement and encourages listening to commands. All of these are going to work in your favour with regards to resource guarding or food aggression. 

*You're in Charge... but play fair*
In my house, there's no doubt about the pecking order. I rule my roost. I am Alpha and I am the Omega -- the be all and end all (as long as Amanda's ok with it). That doesn't mean I run around taking stuff my dogs want from them just to show that I can do it. Or, that I am mean to them or mean about it. If Harley or Miri have something that they should not have (busted up kong is a good one to snag) then I go get them a hotdog or slice of deli meat and trade it. Can I take it without trading? Probably... but why? To show the dog I can or that I am macho? They love me enough to not bite me over something they want or have... I love them enough to not make them have to make such a decision. Redirect! Always!

*Don't Back Down*
I hate putting this in here because I really don't think it should ever come to this. But, if you get bitten or snapped at you cannot under any circumstances lose and let them keep the item. This will reinforce the behaviour. I had a Schipperkee that I'm babysitting grab at my hand over something that I didn't even realize he considered was a resource. I grabbed him and put him on his back holding him down because he lunged at me. He got the webbing of my hand... and yes it hurt, but letting him win would have hurt us in the long run much more. Instead he got pinned by his head to the couch (his resource) until he stopped trying to bite me. Do not HIT ever! Hitting does NOTHING! I just got bitten and I still never hit the dog that bit me even though a big part of me was screaming football his @$$.

Dogs absolutely respond better to positive reinforcement. I am not one to deny that. However, in certain circumstances I am not averse to using negative reinforcement or discipline such as Alpha Rolling. But, I've always viewed alpha rolls as DEFENSIVE.... as in the dog just tried to bite me and I had to do it to avoid getting bitten. That Schipperkee is still posessive, but he respects me enough now to get off the couch when I tell him to.... if he'd won there fixing this issue would have been more difficult. I do concede that although I used negative reinforcement initially he responded much quicker to positive reinforcement.

*Your Dog IS NOT Mean*
Yes, he bit you. Yeah it probably hurt and broke the skin and bruised a bit. Though I don't consider that a typical response when a person tries to take an item from a dog it is a reaction common in the animal kingdom. Dogs are animals and because of their innate love of people we've become arrogant and ignore the fact that there were many, many more years put into making them succesful in the wild then what was put into making them successful in your household. He is posessive, but in any other circumstances he's a loving, fantastic dog. 

*Reduce*
Don't give them the opportunity to become posessive and you'll never have an issue. Don't give "high value" items that take a while to eat or that you'll have to take away from them. The best way to stop posessive tendencies is to have nothing thats worth being posessive over. If this is a food aggerssion a method some have success with is only giving the dog 1/4th their food. After they've eaten that portion you then make them sit/stay and add another 1/4th portion of food. That way you're viewed as the person providing extra food.. not as a competitor.

*Hand Feed*
Every treat, item or thing they get has to come from you. Hand feed them EVERYTHING from their food to treats. Make them work for it too. I hand fed Harley steak on his first birthday and made him nibble it from between my fingers. I also hand fed him his food for a few months when he was 7-8 months old. My hands would get goobery but he definitely knew that I was giving him the treats. 

*Dominance*
This isn't a dominance issue. Even the most submissive dogs can be territorial or posessive. Nor do I generalize this as an aggressiveness. I am more inclined toward saying this is a "defensive behaviour" as the dog's sole intent is to maintain what they've already recieved. 

Good luck! There is a lot of misinformation on the web about how to correct posessive behaviour such as Dog Dominance Behavior - Need Help to Break Dog Possessiveness? Also remeber that what works with my dog may not work with yours and that some dogs are predisposed to this type of behaviour. There could be underlying medical issues (Thyroid is common) or pain causing snarky behaviour and a vet visit may be in order. A Vetinary Behaviourist will be beneficial, though expensive. Also, its not the end of the world and you can absolutely fix this with the right approach!


----------



## markhs (May 20, 2010)

Thank you so much for all the great replies! I will definitely take the suggestions to heart and am getting Harley to a qualified trainer by the end of the month. I believe this was an issue manifested by my lack of attention, training and understanding of dog behavior. We have always been able to put our hands in Harley’s bowl while he is eating, hand feed him and remove his food at will. However I have learned not so cavalier in getting my hands near his mouth, especially while he has some very high value food item or in more unusual situations. I have learned to approach him carefully in these circumstances, with plenty of verbal warnings and commands before having my hands anywhere near his mouth. Recently I have had to get him to drop discarded food he has found on our walks and just commanding him to drop and leave it seems to be enough for him (albeit with some obvious reluctance). 

Thanks once again. I’ll post a follow up on the outcome of his experience with a trainer or if I encounter this issue again.

Mark


----------



## markhs (May 20, 2010)

Braccarius: Great info, I have printed out your post for my family to read. I really appreciate the information. Thanks for the response, we are already taking this information to heart.

Mark


----------



## FinnTastic (Apr 20, 2009)

VEt Behavorist..... that is the best suggestion. Good Luck!!


----------



## markhs (May 20, 2010)

I haven't been on this site in a while but thought I needed to close this topic out. 


I did take Harley to a behavioral vet who was able to get him to relinquish high value treats. I actually have a scar where he bit me but now realize this is mark of ignorance. The vet thought I was crazy to think I could put my hand in between an very high food treasure and his teeth without a trade being offered. Harley got a hold of a gastronomical delicacy and I didn't offer something in return. She had a few hour long sessions with him that confirmed I was a dolt and Harley is a very gentle dog....exactly the outcome I was hoping for. He is a great and loving friend (and obviously a foodie) and I am glad to put this behind us. I do practice what I have learned and don't expect any more trouble. He and I continue to take classes as it's great fun for both of us.


----------



## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

markhs said:


> I haven't been on this site in a while but thought I needed to close this topic out.
> 
> 
> I did take Harley to a behavioral vet who was able to get him to relinquish high value treats. I actually have a scar where he bit me but now realize this is mark of ignorance. The vet thought I was crazy to think I could put my hand in between an very high food treasure and his teeth without a trade being offered. Harley got a hold of a gastronomical delicacy and I didn't offer something in return. She had a few hour long sessions with him that confirmed I was a dolt and Harley is a very gentle dog....exactly the outcome I was hoping for. He is a great and loving friend (and obviously a foodie) and I am glad to put this behind us. I do practice what I have learned and don't expect any more trouble. He and I continue to take classes as it's great fun for both of us.


Congrats on the positive outcome! 

Where did you end up taking classes?


----------



## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

What a great outcome and what a great resource you can now be to others!


----------

