# Looking For Breeder Advice [New England]



## MKBos75 (Mar 30, 2020)

Hi everyone! After months of weighing the decision, my girlfriend and I have recently decided that we are ready to bring a new four legged friend into our lives. We have raised and been around dogs our entire lives, but this is our first go with breeders and all the factors associated. We came across Windy Knoll Goldens after much research, and the timing of one of their upcoming litters aligns perfectly with our timeline. Does anyone happen to have any experience with this breeder, if not, is there anything on their website that jumps out as a red flag? windyknollgoldens.com

Other than requesting documentation for Hip, Elbow, Eyes, and Heart clearances, is there anything else we should keep an eye out for?

Thanks in advance for the help!


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## MKBos75 (Mar 30, 2020)

Hi everyone! After months of weighing the decision, my girlfriend and I have recently decided that we are ready to bring a new four legged friend into our lives. We have raised and been around dogs our entire lives, but this is our first go with breeders and all the factors associated. We came across Windy Knoll Goldens after much research, and the timing of one of their upcoming litters aligns perfectly with our timeline. Does anyone happen to have any experience with this breeder, if not, is there anything on their website that jumps out as a red flag? windyknollgoldens.com

Other than requesting documentation for Hip, Elbow, Eyes, and Heart clearances, is there anything else we should keep an eye out for?

Thanks in advance for the help!


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## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

I merged your threads together and moved the thread to a section of the forum where you will likely get more responses. Welcome to the forum!

I do know of Windy Knoll Goldens...they are located semi-locally to where I live. Their clearances are all over the place and they are always pumping out litter after litter. Puppies are raised in out buildings/kennels. It is a business for them and there is no way they can properly socialize and spend time with each litter like they should, because they have several always at a time. They do not follow the Code of Ethics, and for the price you could do SO much better (they are way over charging for what you are getting). Plus you can reserve a puppy online which tells me they don't really screen who their puppies go home with, and their NuVet only warranty is in place so they can continue to get kick-backs and profiting from you buying those products.

In New England there are many reputable breeders to choose from. It is worth it to wait for a healthy and well socialized puppy from health tested parents from a reputable breeder.


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## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

As EmmDenn said, New England is FULL of great, reputable breeders (Windy Knoll is not one of them). I recommend using the search bar for the forum and search on "New England Breeders" and you should get quite a few threads with recommendations. I'm also aware of two breeders I would recommend who have or are planning litters. I don't know if they have or will have available pups, but I'll try to PM you with the kennel names so you can reach out and see. If they don't, be sure to ask for recommendations... sometimes word of mouth is the best way to find both reputable breeders and upcoming litters.


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## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

OP - I PM’d you as well


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## Staycalm (Apr 9, 2020)

pawsnpaca said:


> As EmmDenn said, New England is FULL of great, reputable breeders (Windy Knoll is not one of them). I recommend using the search bar for the forum and search on "New England Breeders" and you should get quite a few threads with recommendations. I'm also aware of two breeders I would recommend who have or are planning litters. I don't know if they have or will have available pups, but I'll try to PM you with the kennel names so you can reach out and see. If they don't, be sure to ask for recommendations... sometimes word of mouth is the best way to find both reputable breeders and upcoming litters.


Hi 
I am in the same boat ... live in Connecticut... please pm me some breeders in and around ... thank you


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## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

Staycalm said:


> Hi
> I am in the same boat ... live in Connecticut... please pm me some breeders in and around ... thank you


 I'm happy to send you the two names I sent the OP, but your best bet is to search the forum for threads about "New England breeders" or "Connecticut breeders," etc. As noted, New England is full of great breeders - when I did my own search a few years ago I ID'd and researched over 30 of them... and those were just reputable ones with websites!

I'd also recommend doing some reading here on the forum (I think there may be some pinned posts for this "Choosing a Golden Retriever breeder & puppy" sub-forum) on what exactly makes a "good" breeder... because for every one "good" breeder there are probably 3 that are NOT breeders you want to do business with... Although we're happy to vet specific breeder's websites and dogs for you (within reason and to the best of our ability), it would be helpful if you weed out the puppy mills and backyard breeders and other "greeders" yourself first... Note that a search on the forum for a particular kennel name may also bring up threads about those breeders who may have been asked about in the past.


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## Staycalm (Apr 9, 2020)

Emmdenn said:


> OP - I PM’d you as well


Hi 
I am in the same boat ... live in Connecticut... please pm me some breeders in and around ... thank you


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## Staycalm (Apr 9, 2020)

pawsnpaca said:


> I'm happy to send you the two names I sent the OP, but your best bet is to search the forum for threads about "New England breeders" or "Connecticut breeders," etc. As noted, New England is full of great breeders - when I did my own search a few years ago I ID'd and researched over 30 of them... and those were just reputable ones with websites!
> 
> I'd also recommend doing some reading here on the forum (I think there may be some pinned posts for this "Choosing a Golden Retriever breeder & puppy" sub-forum) on what exactly makes a "good" breeder... because for every one "good" breeder there are probably 3 that are NOT breeders you want to do business with... Although we're happy to vet specific breeder's websites and dogs for you (within reason and to the best of our ability), it would be helpful if you weed out the puppy mills and backyard breeders and other "greeders" yourself first... Note that a search on the forum for a particular kennel name may also bring up threads about those breeders who may have been asked about in the past.


thank you for all the information- I will definitely look into it
I will wait for your recommendation on breeder - please PM me 
Thanks


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## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

PM'd you


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## SearchingforScout (Apr 17, 2020)

pawsnpaca said:


> As EmmDenn said, New England is FULL of great, reputable breeders (Windy Knoll is not one of them). I recommend using the search bar for the forum and search on "New England Breeders" and you should get quite a few threads with recommendations. I'm also aware of two breeders I would recommend who have or are planning litters. I don't know if they have or will have available pups, but I'll try to PM you with the kennel names so you can reach out and see. If they don't, be sure to ask for recommendations... sometimes word of mouth is the best way to find both reputable breeders and upcoming litters.


Could I trouble you to send me the names of some New England breeders. How does one PM on this site?


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

SearchingforScout said:


> Could I trouble you to send me the names of some New England breeders. How does one PM on this site?


To send a message to another member, click on their name to go to their profile, select "Start Conversation".

Type your message then start conversation-send.

Or you can hover over a member's avatar, their info comes up. At the bottom right you'll see "Message", click on it to send a PM.


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## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

OK, FWIW I'm going to list a few breeders below who were on my list to investigate when I was looking for a puppy a couple of years ago. IMPORTANT: I am not "recommending" _any _of these breeders! As far as I know they are reputable but you still need to do your own due diligence re clearances etc. This is just to give you a starting point of some breeders to research.

Also note: I am hearing from all my breeder friends, of all breeds, that they are being inundated with calls and emails asking about puppies. I think a lot of people are realizing that being stuck at home during the pandemic is a good time to be housebreaking a puppy! That said, most puppies (from reputable breeders) who are ready to go now or in the next few months have probably been spoken for for months if not years. If you are lucky, you are likely looking at summer, fall or later for puppies that have not yet even been conceived.

So here's my list (in no particular order). Note that this list doesn't even scratch the surface of good breeders in New England, so hopefully others will chime in to either add to it or let you know if there's a breeder in this list they do NOT consider reputable/responsible (see note above!). I have bolded names I have some personal experience with and feel comfortable sending people to.


Sunfire (CT)(active working dogs - probably too much dog for the average pet owner)
*Eastshore *(NH)(may no longer be breeding as of 9/21)
Brookshire (MA)
*Colonial *(ME)
Golden B Bear (NH)
*Beau Geste *(MA)
My Way (CT)
*Profile *(ME)
*Greatbrook *(NH)
Errigal (NH)
Goldensands (VT)
Hunting Lane (MA)
Thornlea (NH)
Sunkissed (NH)
Abalee (CT)
Starquest (NH)
Pebwin (MA)
Foxrun (CT)
Astar (MA)
Cloverdale (CT)
Twin Beau D (MA)
Woodwind (MA)
Lazy Daze (MA)
Cressida (MA)
Strawberry Fields (VT)
Starhill (MA)
*Mystic* (ME)
Harborview (PA)
Butternut (VT)
Saquish (NH?)
Broadway (CT)
Stardust (NY)
JRS
Yukon
Rainyday
Royal River (ME)
Tilly's (added per member recommendation 9/21)
Meadowbrook (added per member recommendation 9/21)
Kelore (added 10/21)
Golden Soul (added 10/21)
South Star (added 10/21)
Finnvarrs (added 10/21)
Crangold (added 10/21)
Kernow (added 10/21)
Golden Graham (added 10/21)
Ginger Run (added 10/21)
Valentia (added 10/21)
Renssellaer (added 10/21)
Cayberry (added 10/21/)
Overlook (CT) (added 2/22)
Golden Joy (added 3/22)
Otterbrook (added 5/22 - Active working dogs may be too much dog for the average pet owner)
Tangleloft (added 7/22 - not sure how I missed them the first time!)
Golden Gang of Maine (added 9/22)
Daybreak (MA) (Added 9/22)

I also found this thread that you may find helpful: So many breeders! Need some assistance


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

This educational video may help too.


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## dearmschris (Aug 14, 2017)

Emmdenn said:


> OP - I PM’d you as well


Could you pm me as well? I'm in central MA!


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## Methek (Aug 22, 2020)

I do not recommend this breeder. We got a puppy from then and the dog ended up being aggressive. Later, when we showed the website to our trainer she told us that she would have advised us against it if she had seen the website. Essentially a puppy mill. Do not let the kids holding cute puppies fool you. These dogs life in kennels and the puppies are never in the home. They are raised in a barn. These people breed solely for money. Golden puppies are there sole income. I recommend reaching out to the GRCA and ask for reputable breeders.


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## Laura Barnard (Jan 25, 2021)

pawsnpaca said:


> As EmmDenn said, New England is FULL of great, reputable breeders (Windy Knoll is not one of them). I recommend using the search bar for the forum and search on "New England Breeders" and you should get quite a few threads with recommendations. I'm also aware of two breeders I would recommend who have or are planning litters. I don't know if they have or will have available pups, but I'll try to PM you with the kennel names so you can reach out and see. If they don't, be sure to ask for recommendations... sometimes word of mouth is the best way to find both reputable breeders and upcoming litters.


Hello,
I just saw your post regarding possible litters. We just lost our beloved golden to cancer last week, and are completely heartbroken. She was our third golden, and the best dog we've ever known. If you know of any litters from reputable breeders where there may be puppies available, I would so appreciate a recommendation. We are willing to drive many hours from where we live in western Mass. to bring home a puppy. Feel free to PM me.


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## Laura Barnard (Jan 25, 2021)

pawsnpaca said:


> OK, FWIW I'm going to list a few breeders below who were on my list to investigate when I was looking for a puppy a couple of years ago. IMPORTANT: I am not "recommending" _any _of these breeders! As far as I know they are reputable but you still need to do your own due diligence re clearances etc. This is just to give you a starting point of some breeders to research.
> 
> Also note: I am hearing from all my breeder friends, of all breeds, that they are being inundated with calls and emails asking about puppies. I think a lot of people are realizing that being stuck at home during the pandemic is a good time to be housebreaking a puppy! That said, most puppies (from reputable breeders) who are ready to go now or in the next few months have probably been spoken for for months if not years. If you are lucky, you are likely looking at summer, fall or later for puppies that have not yet even been conceived.
> 
> ...


This is so generous and helpful. Thank you. I already see the kennel names of those who are friends with two of my friends who are also breeders. It's a great start!


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## Shep Golden (Jul 3, 2021)

Methek said:


> I do not recommend this breeder. We got a puppy from then and the dog ended up being aggressive. Later, when we showed the website to our trainer she told us that she would have advised us against it if she had seen the website. Essentially a puppy mill. Do not let the kids holding cute puppies fool you. These dogs life in kennels and the puppies are never in the home. They are raised in a barn. These people breed solely for money. Golden puppies are there sole income. I recommend reaching out to the GRCA and ask for reputable breeders.


Kelsey, the one who wrote the review above, brought back this "aggressive monster" golden retriever named "Clover" to us. But we found that Clover was only responding to her and her boyfriend's nervous fear. While we didn't have to, we gave a full refund to Kelsey & her boyfriend for a dog that they damaged through their inexperience and mishandling. We contacted a golden rescue expert who rescued many abused goldens over the years. He said he would take Clover (at no charge from us) and see what kind of monster she was. He gave us totally positive feedback about Clover and said she was a wonderful golden who was mishandled and acted out of fear because of Kelsey and her boyfriend. She has never given him trouble.

Separately, we were contacted by an animal shelter that was doing some background checking into Kelsey and warned us that she was blacklisted from being able to get a dog not only from them but all other connected shelters in the area because Kelsey was unstable and not to be trusted.

We would also ask that Kelsey edit or delete the above comments and remove the false and defamatory comments she claims are true.

1. Puppy mill
2. Dogs and puppies never in the home
3. Raised in a barn
4. Implying that we are somehow not reputable

We are a small to medium sized breeder of golden retrievers and take our breeding seriously by checking for temperament, confirmation, genetics, and hips and heart. Our dogs do come into the house and our children play with puppies in our house as well. The barn Kelsey was referring to was a specially designed climate controlled 45'x35' dog kennel attached to the house we built to accommodate our dogs and puppies as they whelp and raise the puppies. Below is the picture of the "barn" that is attached to our house.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Shep Golden said:


> Kelsey, the one who wrote the review above, brought back this "aggressive monster" golden retriever named "Clover" to Windy Knoll Goldens. But we found that Clover was only responding to her and her boyfriend's nervous fear. While we didn't have to, we gave a full refund to Kelsey & her boyfriend for a dog that they damaged through their inexperience and mishandling. We contacted a golden rescue expert who rescued many abused goldens over the years. He said he would take Clover (at no charge from us) and see what kind of monster she was. He gave us totally positive feedback about Clover and said she was a wonderful golden who was mishandled and acted out of fear because of Kelsey and her boyfriend. She has never given him trouble.
> 
> Separately, we were contacted by an animal shelter that was doing some background checking into Kelsey and warned us that she was blacklisted from being able to get a dog not only from them but all other connected shelters in the area because Kelsey was unstable and not to be trusted.
> 
> ...


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Interesting... you must have a litter and be googling to damage control what you can. The person who returned the dog and posted here never called the dog a monster, apparently you and your trainer did that. And I don't believe any AC shelter would be calling YOU -why? Or rather, why are you gossiping on this poster, trying to imply she's unhinged? I would love to hear you defend post #3, personally. Do you do full code of ethics clearances? Every breeding has sire and dam with hips/elbows DONE AFTER 24 mo of age and on OFA, a cardiologist heart clearance on OFA and recent eyes on OFA? I see 5 litters (this is not a small breeding program, btw) and first one- Buddy- has an inadequate pet vet heart on OFA, underaged hip/elbow prelim if we are to believe what you published and underaged PH. No eyes. Goldie's not on your site . I do not expect to find full clearances on her, either. On to second of 5 litters you plan this year... Charles-IF he has clearances they are not on OFA. You have 'OFA clear" claim on your site for heart- to be OFA ANYTHING you have to have it on OFA... and I'd bet it is done by same pet vet so inadequate .. and if you really have PH on him, I'd bet underaged (24 mo). No elbows. No one but OFA does elbows in the US. No eyes. Pickles too is underaged, so ... yeah whoever said you were 'somehow not reputable' seems to be on the money. On to Advanced Search | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO.. I don't know of a scarier OFA link than this one. Actually, how about you just post ANY breeding you plan this year with full and verifiable properly aged clearances on OFA for us .... or start doing things best practices so you don't have to do google searches and bring up old threads to poorly defend bad breeding practices.


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## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

Greg -- I guess I will just reply here to your PM. You want to know how in the world you could be considered "somehow not reputable", I am going to post the OFA pages of some of your dogs that have been bred recently, because frankly thats all we really need to see to determine whether or not you are breeding reputably.

*April of Windy Knoll* (has a current litter with Charles & only clearance she has is an inadequate heart)








Advanced Search | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO


Use our advanced search tool to find information and reports by registration number, animal name, breed, special programs, report type and more.




www.ofa.org





*Charles of Windy Knoll *(doesnt even have anything on OFA, and no surprise is out of two dogs with improper clearances)


Pedigree: Charles Of Windy Knoll Goldens



*Clara* (only clearance she has is an inadequate heart)








Advanced Search | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO


Use our advanced search tool to find information and reports by registration number, animal name, breed, special programs, report type and more.




www.ofa.org





*Martha* (nothing)


Pedigree: Martha Washington Of Windy Knoll Goldens



*Susanna *(WAS BRED according to website, only clearance she has is an inadequate heart)








Advanced Search | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO


Use our advanced search tool to find information and reports by registration number, animal name, breed, special programs, report type and more.




www.ofa.org





*Spice* (WAS BRED according to website, only clearance she has is an inadequate heart)








Advanced Search | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO


Use our advanced search tool to find information and reports by registration number, animal name, breed, special programs, report type and more.




www.ofa.org





*Grant *(Has been bred MANY times according to website. Nothing except inadequate heart)








Advanced Search | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO


Use our advanced search tool to find information and reports by registration number, animal name, breed, special programs, report type and more.




www.ofa.org





*Windy Knoll Golden Sunshine *(has hips and elbows, nothing else.)








Advanced Search | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO


Use our advanced search tool to find information and reports by registration number, animal name, breed, special programs, report type and more.




www.ofa.org





*Polly *(has been bred multiple times, only has hips)








Advanced Search | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO


Use our advanced search tool to find information and reports by registration number, animal name, breed, special programs, report type and more.




www.ofa.org





I'm thinking I'll stop here because I've yet to find a single dog with proper clearances, which should answer most of your questions. GRCA Code of Ethics - Golden Retriever Club of America <----- a link to the GRCA CoE if you care to understand where we are getting these standards from. I also can't believe the price of these puppies are $2900 considering they don't even have the bare minimum of health clearances.


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## goldy1 (Aug 5, 2012)

The longtime members here perform a service that cannot fully be realized by the average person. *I'm grateful for all of you* continuing to explain what "reputable breeder" really means.


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## Shep Golden (Jul 3, 2021)

Emmdenn said:


> I merged your threads together and moved the thread to a section of the forum where you will likely get more responses. Welcome to the forum!
> 
> I do know of Windy Knoll Goldens...they are located semi-locally to where I live. Their clearances are all over the place and they are always pumping out litter after litter. Puppies are raised in out buildings/kennels. It is a business for them and there is no way they can properly socialize and spend time with each litter like they should, because they have several always at a time. They do not follow the Code of Ethics, and for the price you could do SO much better (they are way over charging for what you are getting). Plus you can reserve a puppy online which tells me they don't really screen who their puppies go home with, and their NuVet only warranty is in place so they can continue to get kick-backs and profiting from you buying those products.
> 
> In New England there are many reputable breeders to choose from. It is worth it to wait for a healthy and well socialized puppy from health tested parents from a reputable breeder.





Prism Goldens said:


> Interesting... you must have a litter and be googling to damage control what you can. The person who returned the dog and posted here never called the dog a monster, apparently you and your trainer did that. And I don't believe any AC shelter would be calling YOU -why? Or rather, why are you gossiping on this poster, trying to imply she's unhinged? I would love to hear you defend post #3, personally. Do you do full code of ethics clearances? Every breeding has sire and dam with hips/elbows DONE AFTER 24 mo of age and on OFA, a cardiologist heart clearance on OFA and recent eyes on OFA? I see 5 litters (this is not a small breeding program, btw) and first one- Buddy- has an inadequate pet vet heart on OFA, underaged hip/elbow prelim if we are to believe what you published and underaged PH. No eyes. Goldie's not on your site . I do not expect to find full clearances on her, either. On to second of 5 litters you plan this year... Charles-IF he has clearances they are not on OFA. You have 'OFA clear" claim on your site for heart- to be OFA ANYTHING you have to have it on OFA... and I'd bet it is done by same pet vet so inadequate .. and if you really have PH on him, I'd bet underaged (24 mo). No elbows. No one but OFA does elbows in the US. No eyes. Pickles too is underaged, so ... yeah whoever said you were 'somehow not reputable' seems to be on the money. On to Advanced Search | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO.. I don't know of a scarier OFA link than this one. Actually, how about you just post ANY breeding you plan this year with full and verifiable properly aged clearances on OFA for us .... or start doing things best practices so you don't have to do google searches and bring up old threads to poorly defend bad breeding practices.


Actually, I have seen some of these comments for a couple of years and never bothered to respond until now. Kelsey herself called the dog a monster in her many communications with me. The dog wasn't a monster. She was very sweet, kind and gentle. The shelter called me because they pried out of Kelsey where she got Clover from. They weren't buying her frantic stories about a terrible golden retriever. 
As for PennHIP vs OFA "age requirements" take a look at this article: PennHIP vs. OFA: Better medicine vs. better marketing | PetMD All our PennHIP tests are not "underage" as PennHIP can be done as early as 16 weeks old. I don't think it should make any difference to you that we fallow other testing protocols. It seems that because we think outside the OFA box, we are somehow inferior breeders. The fact is, OFA has inferior hip testing but has a great marketing plan which you and many others have bought into at least in part. I find it interesting that you don't agree with OFA's stamp of approval on a vet's observation of a dog's heart. Obviously, you have your opinion and you are entitled to it. But don't make it seem like yours is the only one that counts. I would like to point out that all this testing hasn't produced a better breed. Actually the numbers are getting worse, the genetic pool is getting much slimmer and we are harming our ability to have healthy dogs over the long run. Take a look at this article by AKC judge, Carmen L Battaglia, who holds a Ph.D. and Masters Degree from Florida State University: A Gathering Storm Pt 1 | Breeding Better Dogs 
By the way, Goldenridge Kennels is a large breeding operation having upwards of 45 breeding females. 
I think it would be much better to have reasonable conversations even if there are differing opinions, than to automatically write each other off because we think differently.


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## Shep Golden (Jul 3, 2021)

Emmdenn said:


> Greg -- I guess I will just reply here to your PM. You want to know how in the world you could be considered "somehow not reputable", I am going to post the OFA pages of some of your dogs that have been bred recently, because frankly thats all we really need to see to determine whether or not you are breeding reputably.
> 
> *April of Windy Knoll* (only clearance she has is an inadequate heart)
> 
> ...


I agree with and follow most of the GRCA Code of Ethics, but when it comes to the OFA monopoly on testing I disagree and so do some of the vets we use. OFA is not the only show in town that produces quality tests. Actually, PennHIP tests are much better because they do real scientific measurements vs OFA's subjective measurements. Take a look at this article by PetMD: PennHIP vs. OFA: Better medicine vs. better marketing | PetMD

So while we test just as much and more than many other breeders, we just have chosen to use better tests that don't seem to fit your mold. We use some of the best vets in the world whose opinion we value very highly. I get a little concerned about how objective OFA is about promoting all their tests as if they are actually helping the breed vs lining their pockets. Take a read from AKC judge Carmen L Battaglia who holds a Ph.D. and Masters Degree from Florida State University A Gathering Storm Pt 1 | Breeding Better Dogs

We actually have more clearances for many of the dogs you listed (hips, heart, eyes etc.) but haven't updated the website with all of them yet. I also appreciate your concern because we all have a common goal that our dogs live vital, healthy and full lives. OFA and many other organizations have their own theory as to how a dog is made healthier, which is the medical way, but there is another important aspect that is perhaps overlooked by many breeders which is proper pet nutrition which leads to disease prevention and longevity. It is a work in progress...


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## Rion05 (Jan 4, 2016)

Shep, can you share the Penn Hip results? Aren't they supposed to be completed at no younger than 24 months of age? As a golden retriever owner, I like to see the clearances in a public database, because they are easy to verify. Actually, I believe that this is also part of the Code of Ethics, and it certainly seems like a good idea. Why is a cardiologist heart clearance not necessary? Can't goldens die suddenly from SAS and other heart issues? Shouldn't breeding goldens have annual opthamologist eye exams? PU and some of the other eye diseases certainly should be identified in a dog being bred, shouldn't they? Also, that allows the dog to be treated, which can save an eye and eye pain. What about elbows? I don't want a lame puppy. Why shouldn't this be available to verify in a public database - otherwise, can't just anyone claim to have full clearances? Shouldn't we also be genetic testing to avoid diseases like NCL? If you are already doing all of this, please add OFA links or at least the clearance forms - puppy buyers like to see this. Respectfully, Dr. Bataglia's article seems like a red herring here.


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## Shep Golden (Jul 3, 2021)

Rion05 said:


> Shep, can you share the Penn Hip results? Aren't they supposed to be completed at no younger than 24 months of age? As a golden retriever owner, I like to see the clearances in a public database, because they are easy to verify. Actually, I believe that this is also part of the Code of Ethics, and it certainly seems like a good idea. Why is a cardiologist heart clearance not necessary? Can't goldens die suddenly from SAS and other heart issues? Shouldn't breeding goldens have annual opthamologist eye exams? What about elbows? I don't want a lame puppy. Why shouldn't this be available to verify in a public database - otherwise, can't just anyone claim to have full clearances? Shouldn't we also be genetic testing to avoid diseases like NCL? If you are already doing all of this, please add OFA links or at least the clearance forms - puppy buyers like to see this.


I have either PennHIP or OFA hips for all our breeding dogs. After finding out more about PennHIP and how it is better (and more expensive test) we switched over to PennHIP. According to a scientific study, the University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine found little difference in the quality of the hip DI from 16 weeks through 2 years old. So they will test 16 week old puppies and older and are confident of the long term quality of the results. Most of our information is listed on the website but as some pointed out, some of it is not there simply because we haven't added it to the website yet. I could also upload the exact same information to K9data or other public websites but haven't chosen to do that. Just because it is uploaded there doesn't mean it is necessarily accurate information. Since OFA gives 2 levels of options for the heart test, we simply chose the vet option which is perfectly adequate to OFA. Since elbow dysplasia isn't nearly as prevalent in goldens (Long-term genetic selection reduced prevalence of hip and elbow dysplasia in 60 dog breeds) we haven't tested as many of our dogs' elbows as hips. We do anywhere from 7-9 genetic tests including a few different common golden retriever genetic weaknesses: eye, muscle, skin, etc. on all our dogs that need it. Some of the parents are clear on everything so we don't test their puppies if we keep them. Again, I would like to point out that while all this testing can be a blessing, it can also be a curse to the breed: A Gathering Storm Pt 1 | Breeding Better Dogs


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Rion05, PH can be done as young as 4 months. That's not a breeding pass, though- its a look-see.
24 months is the youngest one should count on no changes - best practices.
PH does not do elbows, and ED is a horrible disease. And while there is a claim of OFA elbow on one or two of this person's dogs, they are not on OFA because he wasn't sure enough to initial 'release failing results' so it, like his PH results/ages, are just his word.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Shep Golden said:


> I agree with and follow most of the GRCA Code of Ethics, but when it comes to the OFA monopoly on testing I disagree and so do some of the vets we use. OFA is not the only show in town that produces quality tests. Actually, PennHIP tests are much better because they do real scientific measurements vs OFA's subjective measurements. Take a look at this article by PetMD: PennHIP vs. OFA: Better medicine vs. better marketing | PetMD
> 
> So while we test just as much and more than many other breeders, we just have chosen to use better tests that don't seem to fit your mold. We use some of the best vets in the world whose opinion we value very highly. I get a little concerned about how objective OFA is about promoting all their tests as if they are actually helping the breed vs lining their pockets. Take a read from AKC judge Carmen L Battaglia who holds a Ph.D. and Masters Degree from Florida State University A Gathering Storm Pt 1 | Breeding Better Dogs
> 
> We actually have more clearances for many of the dogs you listed (hips, heart, eyes etc.) but haven't updated the website with all of them yet. I also appreciate your concern because we all have a common goal that our dogs live vital, healthy and full lives. OFA and many other organizations have their own theory as to how a dog is made healthier, which is the medical way, but there is another important aspect that is perhaps overlooked by many breeders which is proper pet nutrition which leads to disease prevention and longevity. It is a work in progress...


It appears you do NOT qualify for that word 'most' when it comes to CoE. In fact, most of your dogs seem at best to have 1/4 health clearances.
Sorry- a pet vet is about as useful as me doing an auscultation when it comes to meeting the Code.... A P heart has NEVER been ok for Goldens. Never. OFA allows it because some breeds don't need a C clearance. 
And gotta say- Carmen will know who you are when I next see him- he'll die laughing at your use of his book to do the wrong thing. Not who he is or what he purports. But I am glad you have read, The reality is this- you will always be considered HVBYB until you start to follow the correct clearance protocol.


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## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

It is very telling that you are here to defend your abysmal clearance history, breeding dogs underaged, and sharing an article that you believe fits your agenda, however you are hilariously misunderstanding. The article, yes is written by an AKC judge but is not even remotely about OFA vs Pennhip. In fact. it is highlighting the impact animal right activists have had on breeding labels and how AR Movements have negatively impacted the fancy and the work responsible breeders do. Also....from the article: _In their words, a "responsible breeder" is expected to screen and test all of their stock before breeding. This idea sounds great on the surface but *this is only the first step*." _SO the author is AGREEING that heath testing breeding stock is the first step to responsible breeding, which again you clearly have not even remotely come close to. If you are trying to find an article to back up your claims that health testing doesn't impact the health of progeny....you may want to look at peer reviewed veterinary medicine journals, rather than an opinion piece from one AKC judge discussing AR activists (who BTW I would bet lots of $$$ he believes in adequate health testing n breeding dogs). Here are a few that outline findings that OFA testing hips and elbows has resulted in lower % of dysplastic dogs over time: https://www.ofa.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/keller_dziuk_bell_vet_journal.pdf Long-term genetic selection reduced prevalence of hip and elbow dysplasia in 60 dog breeds

The simple fact is that you do not do even the minimum health testing requirements to be considered ethical or reputable. Any well respected, reputable golden retriever breeder would be concerned with ONLY breeding dogs with necessary health clearances, to not perpetuate known issues in future generations, and considering at best you have PennHip on some of your dogs, not even performed at a suitable age, inadequate heart clearances, no eye clearances, no elbow clearances and are breeding dogs anyway....shows that you aren't concerned with not perpetuating health issues in the breed as a whole. 

You are making the classic "wull I HAVE the clearances, they just aren't on the website!" claim. Has been done by many other less than reputable breeders before. BTW -- Reputable breeders send in those scores to the OFA database as well. And since we know some of your dogs have been bred with 0 clearances, unless there is proof I find it hard to believe.


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## Rion05 (Jan 4, 2016)

Shep, honestly, whether a breeder does Penn Hip or OFA, it doesn't matter. But why not post it on a publicly available database? Any clearances done before 24 months are preliminary only, and are not intended for breeding decisions? I have never read anything reliable that suggests otherwise. If you are actually doing these things, it is a bit hard to understand why you would not make them available through the expected channels puppy buyers would go to in order to verify. Again, how in the world is a puppy buyer to know whether clearances were actually done if they cannot be verified?

How old was Elemay when she was bred? If she wasn't yet 2 she could not possibly have had final clearances.


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## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

And yeah --- GoldenRidge in Maine has been discussed before. Also a high-volume backyard breeding operation. Next.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Puppy buyers are not super educated- they trust that people cannot post untruths.

And Greg, I get it- these dogs and your many, many litters per year are your livelihood. They are your income. How about spending just a bit more and breeding at an appropriate age and consider that your $'s well spent to improve your reputation? Because you don't show them, you breed them early and plenty, and your pedigrees are not pedigrees of proven correct dogs- do something about that. And send the PH to OFA for proving. Get correct heart clearances- which HAVE made an enormous difference to this breed. Do eyes. Just do the right thing for the breed that pays your bills.


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## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

For most of us, adhering to the guidelines of the GRCA Code of Ethics is the absolute MINIMUM any breeder of golden retrievers should be doing to be considered “reputable” (or, by definition, ethical). To save forum members some time, I’ve pasted the pertintent guidelines below (highlights are mine).

*Specific Guidelines*
*I. Dogs selected for breeding should:*

Be of temperament typical of the breed, i.e., stable, friendly, trainable, and willing to work. Temperament is of utmost importance to the breed and must never be neglected or altered from the Standard.
Be of conformation typical of the breed.
Be in overall good health, and be physically and mentally mature (which is generally not until *two years of age)*.
Possess examination reports and certifications as outlined below to evaluate and document status concerning recommended screening examinations; *and these reports should be publicly available in an approved online database. *Approved online databases include registries under management of veterinary professional associations; registries maintained by non-profit organizations with veterinary staff or advisory boards; and university-based registries under veterinary advisement. U.S. registries should be used for dogs residing in the U.S., unless previously evaluated (as in III below) prior to importation.
Hip and elbow certifications from the Ontario Veterinary College (OVC) prior to its discontinuation in 2012 are acceptable for dogs residing in the U.S., providing the dog was 24 months of age or older at the time of the examination. Reports should be recorded in an approved online database as described above.
Submission of abnormal information to the OFA online database is encouraged.
*II. The following reports are acceptable for dogs residing in the U.S.:*

Hips –* a report from the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals (OFA) or PennHIP at 24 months of age or older.* *Since PennHIP results are not automatically published, these results should be recorded in an approved online database as described above*.
Elbows – *a report from the OFA at 24 months of age or older.*
Hearts – a report from a Diplomat of the American College of Veterinary Internal Medicine *(Cardiology)*, at 12 months of age or older. *Report should be recorded in an approved online database as described above.*
Eyes – a report from a Diplomat of the American College of Veterinary Ophthalmology. Examinations* should be done within 12 months prior to a breeding, and results should be recorded in an approved online database as described above.*
*Dogs that produce offspring should continue to have ophthalmology examinations on a yearly basis for their lifetime,* and if the findings permit recertification, *the results should continue to be recorded in an approved online database.*
For frozen semen from deceased dogs, either an ophthalmology examination within 18 months of the date of death, or status that was in compliance with the Code of Ethics in effect at the time of the dog’s death, will be considered current.


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## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

Oh, and for the record, even OFA recommends that heart exams be done by a cardiologist for golden retrievers.

*OFA-CHIC Health Testing Requirements

The OFA, working with the breed's parent club, recommends the following basic health screening tests for all breeding stock. Dogs meeting these basic health screening requirements will be issued Canine Health Information Center (CHIC) numbers. For CHIC certification, all results do not need to be normal, but they must all be in the public domain so that responsible breeders can make more informed breeding decisions. For potential puppy buyers, CHIC certification is a good indicator the breeder responsibly factors good health into their selection criteria. The breed specific list below represents the basic health screening recommendations. It is not all encompassing. There may be other health screening tests appropriate for this breed. And, there may be other health concerns for which there is no commonly accepted screening protocol available.*

*Hip Dysplasia (One of the following)
OFA Evaluation ➚
PennHIP Evaluation*
*Elbow Dysplasia
OFA Evaluation ➚*
*Eye Examination (evaluations annually for the dog's lifetime)
Eye Examination by a boarded ACVO Ophthalmologist ➚*
*Cardiac Evaluation (One of the following)
Congenital Cardiac Exam at 12 months or older, with exam by cardiologist ➚
Advanced Cardiac Exam ➚
Basic Cardiac Exam at 12 months or older, with exam by cardiologist ➚*


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## Loni S. (Jun 9, 2021)

LJack said:


> This educational video may help too.


Hello, I am a new member (6/2021) & just wanted to say THANK YOU for sharing this educational video! I am busy being a "sponge" re GR knowledge & very much appreciate it.


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## KAP (Jul 17, 2021)

Laura Barnard said:


> Hello,
> I just saw your post regarding possible litters. We just lost our beloved golden to cancer last week, and are completely heartbroken. She was our third golden, and the best dog we've ever known. If you know of any litters from reputable breeders where there may be puppies available, I would so appreciate a recommendation. We are willing to drive many hours from where we live in western Mass. to bring home a puppy. Feel free to PM me.



Hi I too would like a recommendation. Seems all I can find is unacceptable breeders in my search. Please feel free to PM as well.


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## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

KAP said:


> Hi I too would like a recommendation. Seems all I can find is unacceptable breeders in my search. Please feel free to PM as well.


Welcome to the forum! Did you see post #13 on this thread? It has a long list of reputable breeders in New England...


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## Mgags (Aug 17, 2021)

Emmdenn said:


> PM'd you


Please pm me the breeder as well I’m in ma but don’t mind a drive


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## KAP (Jul 17, 2021)

Thank you


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## Ktepper84 (11 mo ago)

Emmdenn said:


> I merged your threads together and moved the thread to a section of the forum where you will likely get more responses. Welcome to the forum!
> 
> I do know of Windy Knoll Goldens...they are located semi-locally to where I live. Their clearances are all over the place and they are always pumping out litter after litter. Puppies are raised in out buildings/kennels. It is a business for them and there is no way they can properly socialize and spend time with each litter like they should, because they have several always at a time. They do not follow the Code of Ethics, and for the price you could do SO much better (they are way over charging for what you are getting). Plus you can reserve a puppy online which tells me they don't really screen who their puppies go home with, and their NuVet only warranty is in place so they can continue to get kick-backs and profiting from you buying those products.
> 
> In New England there are many reputable breeders to choose from. It is worth it to wait for a healthy and well socialized puppy from health tested parents from a reputable breeder.


Good afternoon I was looking through breeder threads and saw you had some recommendations? Would it be possible for you to share? Thanks!


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## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

Ktepper84 said:


> Good afternoon I was looking through breeder threads and saw you had some recommendations? Would it be possible for you to share? Thanks!


Welcome to the Forum! While you wait for @Emmdenn to respond to your post.... did you see post #13 on this thread? It lists about 50 reputable breeders here in New England!


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## lifeexplorenow (Nov 14, 2021)

pawsnpaca said:


> OK, FWIW I'm going to list a few breeders below who were on my list to investigate when I was looking for a puppy a couple of years ago. IMPORTANT: I am not "recommending" _any _of these breeders! As far as I know they are reputable but you still need to do your own due diligence re clearances etc. This is just to give you a starting point of some breeders to research.
> 
> Also note: I am hearing from all my breeder friends, of all breeds, that they are being inundated with calls and emails asking about puppies. I think a lot of people are realizing that being stuck at home during the pandemic is a good time to be housebreaking a puppy! That said, most puppies (from reputable breeders) who are ready to go now or in the next few months have probably been spoken for for months if not years. If you are lucky, you are likely looking at summer, fall or later for puppies that have not yet even been conceived.
> 
> ...


Good morning;Have you heard anything about Golden Ridge Kennels (Maine) and Dovorak Goldens. I contacted 27 Breeders and none have pups available for some time?Manny a year out.Thanks


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## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

Well, first off, yes, Goldens are in high demand right now and most reputable breeders will have a wait of 6 months to two years for a puppy. Anyone who can get you a puppy sooner (especially outside of extenuating circumstance, such as an approved buyer backing out at the last minute), is likely, at best, a high-volume commercial breeder or at worst, a puppy mill (both basically breeding solely for profit and rarely following the GRCA Code of Ethics). This makes these breeders a much higher risk for producing puppies with health or behavior issues than if you get your pup from a reputable/ethical breeder who is doing the health clearances outlined in the Code.

I couldn’t find anything on Devorak Goldens, and I’ve never heard of them. I checked for dogs with that kennel name in both K9Data and OFA without finding them, so I would assume this is not a reputable breeder, but if you can double check the kennel name and/or tell me what state they’re in I can look again.

Golden Ridge: I am not familiar with this breeder but looking at their website I’m seeing red flags:

Referring to their dogs as “British Cremes.” This is a term so closely associated with poor breeders that you can almost immediately discount these breeders based on this term alone. A golden, is a golden, is a golden. No reputable breeder will breed solely for coat color. If the lighter colored coats appeal to you, there are reputable breeders who tend to produce that color, but they will NOT be referring to their dogs as “English Cream” (or any variation thereof, except maybe “English type”).
They have puppies available “now.” (Almost never the case with reputable breeders, who often have long waitlists of approved buyers, and usually all puppies spoken for before or soon after they are born).
No talk that I saw about their breeding dogs having appropriate clearances on hips, elbows, heart and eyes (this is the absolute minimum needed to be considered ethical).
No AKC Registered names for their dogs, which would allow you to independently verify that the clearances have been done
If you can get the AKC names/numbers of the proposed dam and sire of a litter I can then check to see if the dogs have the minimum clearances. Otherwise, I’d steer clear.

Post #14 on this thread has a video on finding a reputable golden breeder that I encourage you to watch. You may also find this blog helpful: How To Recognize Ethical Breeders – Reputable Breeders, Part 1

[Update: I just found an existing thread on Golderidge that you may want to read through: Same puppy mill, different states?]


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## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

pawsnpaca said:


> Well, first off, yes, Goldens are in high demand right now and most reputable breeders will have a wait of 6 months to two years for a puppy. Anyone who can get you a puppy sooner (especially outside of extenuating circumstance, such as an approved buyer backing out at the last minute), is likely, at best, a high-volume commercial breeder or at worst, a puppy mill (both basically breeding solely for profit and rarely following the GRCA Code of Ethics). This makes these breeders a much higher risk for producing puppies with health or behavior issues than if you get your pup from a reputable/ethical breeder who is doing the health clearances outlined in the Code.
> 
> I couldn’t find anything on Devorak Goldens, and I’ve never heard of them. I checked for dogs with that kennel name in both K9Data and OFA without finding them, so I would assume this is not a reputable breeder, but if you can double check the kennel name and/or tell me what state they’re in I can look again.
> 
> ...


Golden Ridge in Maine perhaps?? Believe the breeders name is Roxanne. This place is a puppy mill. Constantly producing puppies, selling them to the first people with money, no health clearances whatsoever and do nothing with their dogs but breed them.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Odds are that you will have to find a historically safe breeder, then get on a list, then wait. Possibly a long time. 
Nothing worth having is instant.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Prism Goldens said:


> ..... find a historically safe breeder, then get on a list, then wait. Possibly a long time.....*Nothing worth having is instant*.


This is the key advice.


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