# Pile Work and Obedience Utility Articles



## Judi (Feb 26, 2007)

What is "Pile Work"?


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Since he already knows articles well I don't think there will be too much problem. One thing I did for my dogs is I made sure I didn't put the bumpers in an actual "pile" like you would articles. I started with 3 bumpers in a vertical line, several feet between each bumper. That changes the picture of what they normally see in articles. Once you've taught what you need on the 3 bumpers you can increase the number out there, add some in horizontally, etc.

I wouldn't find it surprising for a dog to try snatching an article once after starting pile work, but I think as long as you make it clear to the dog that "no, we didn't change the rules for this exercise," it won't be an ongoing problem. 

Of course I don't know much about field at all, that's just what I did and found it didn't cause problems with my dogs.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

we also work the articles in a straight line.....and some of our judges lay them out that way in the ring, too.....


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

really? I've worked articles in a straight line before, but I've _never_ seen a judge do it in the ring around here. Actually I was just thinking the other day it would be fun if the judge would put the articles in the shape of an "X"

But I still don't think it would cause long term problems for Tito. There's the whole ritual for setting up for articles (showing him setting out the pile, scenting the article, pivot) that I think it would be clear to him ahead of time what he is going to be doing. Like I said, he might try a snatch once to see if the rules have changed for this exercise, but I think after telling him once or twice that's not the way this exercise works he'd be clear.

I think the bigger problem comes for dogs that have been through FTP first, and then have to go back and learn articles. That's why I started Flip on articles so young, I wanted that solid before I did pile work with him.

I know a trainer of OTCH dogs that also does field work. She commented that she thought it would be fun to make bumper shaped articles for her goldens. Someone said wouldn't that be confusing to the dog, and she replied that her dogs knew the difference in what they are doing based on the way there are set up and the command given, not what was out there for them to get.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

It was never a problem with Keeper or Lucy. I do the "direct send" for articles so that also helps to keep the two separate. And of course a different command.

I should add I did have an issue with directed jumping and go outs with Lucy when I took her back out for her UDX.


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## kgiff (Jul 21, 2008)

I haven't done either yet and I need to figure out which one I want to train first. I've heard sometimes doing article work first can sometimes lead to shopping the pile and then I've heard mixed opinions about correcting shopping with a dog that also does obedience. I know there are plenty of dogs that successfully do both.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Is shopping the pile ok or would it lose the desired goal of training the pile? I mean in a test they are not running to a pile of birds--just one.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

kgiff said:


> I haven't done either yet and I need to figure out which one I want to train first. I've heard sometimes doing article work first can sometimes lead to shopping the pile and then I've heard mixed opinions about correcting shopping with a dog that also does obedience. I know there are plenty of dogs that successfully do both.



I too have heard some folks talk about "shopping the pile" problem. In my limited experience I have never understood the "problem" part. When mine have "shopped" it was not by scent but more "LOOK at ALL these BUMPERS!!!"

And in a "test" situation they will never encounter a pile, it is done in training to create confidence that there is some thing there and to go in a straight line. So I do not correct for "shopping".

Now if I could stop my wife from shopping, but that is another story.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Thanks for the replies. I think I may just hold off on pile work until we finish the UDX. Although at this rate, I may die of old age before we finish the UDX.....


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

I don't do obedience, but I have heard plenty about dogs having problems with force to pile and articles... I have also seen first hand a dog who is having problems with articles after being forced to pile... If it was me, I would wait, why take the risk!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Thanks, I have decided to wait. We're having some other problems right now that I know are related to having just started field, I don't need to add any.....




sammydog said:


> I don't do obedience, but I have heard plenty about dogs having problems with force to pile and articles... I have also seen first hand a dog who is having problems with articles after being forced to pile... If it was me, I would wait, why take the risk!


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> Thanks, I have decided to wait. We're having some other problems right now that I know are related to having just started field, I don't need to add any.....


Barb, since you are long since done training articles (although articles are always a work in progress, aren't they) I would not let it deter you from doing pile work. You also will not be able to avoid pile work if you plan to handle with your dog in the field. 
However, I cannot see that pile work is in your immediate future for the field so I wouldn't worry about this at the moment. I say this only because you've just had a few weeks of field training and in my mind, still have a lot of ground to cover in field basics before you hit pile work. Don't underestimate the value of doing lots of marks with a beginning field dog versus jumping into transition.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Oh yes, articles are ALWAYS a work in progress! Last week he picked up the wrong one (in a show) for the first time in AGES. Of course, I blame it on the fact that we were showing outside on grass, we've never trained on grass nor do we ever show outside....but anyway, I digress.
I suspect you're exactly right about pile work not being in my immediate future, and I'd really like to finish the UDX first (sigh). Today my trainer said he wants Tito to do 50 marks in the next 6 weeks, so he obviously agrees with the value of lots of marks before moving on!




K9-Design said:


> Barb, since you are long since done training articles (although articles are always a work in progress, aren't they) I would not let it deter you from doing pile work. You also will not be able to avoid pile work if you plan to handle with your dog in the field.
> However, I cannot see that pile work is in your immediate future for the field so I wouldn't worry about this at the moment. I say this only because you've just had a few weeks of field training and in my mind, still have a lot of ground to cover in field basics before you hit pile work. Don't underestimate the value of doing lots of marks with a beginning field dog versus jumping into transition.


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