# Help--I can't find my Mom & Dad



## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

Leecaouette said:


> Has anyone heard of a breeder is Missouri called Michael Moore (Not the Movie Director). My papers say I'm from a breeder in Missouri, and I wanted to find out a but more about where I came from...Maybe a picture of my mom and dad. Any help would be appreciated!
> 
> View attachment 3097
> 
> -Riley


Do you know where in Missouri???? Im guessing you didnt purchase the dog directly from the Breeder????


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## Leecaouette (Jan 16, 2007)

Lamar, Mo I believe. We got him from larger local pet center known to be respectable. He checked out great at the Vet, and seems to be beautiful to me...


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

I have never heard of him...But I do know Lamar , Mo is big time puppy mill and they also have huge actions selling off the dogs...... Did you not get papers????


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## Leecaouette (Jan 16, 2007)

I do have the papers,...but just wanted to see if we could find out who the parents were...


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## Ninde'Gold (Oct 21, 2006)

If you have the papers, it should say who the parents are on there. I know Tucker's do..


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

When you say papers are you speaking of your Sales Agreement iwth the petstore or of AKC papers? 

AKC papers have your pups dam and sire with their AKC numbers as well as the breeders name and address..
Mary


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## Ninde'Gold (Oct 21, 2006)

Maybe that's what they meant... Tucker's bill of sale had the breeder's name and address but only the CKC papers have his parents names and his.


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## Leecaouette (Jan 16, 2007)

I have the name of the parents and the family tree,...but NO access to the real thing. I was just wondering if anyone here had any further info on that particular breeder..... He is a cute little guy though...


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## njb (Oct 5, 2006)

I would be concerned about him coming from a puppy mill--and just because papers say something--if it is a puppy mill does not mean it is true.


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## Gldiebr (Oct 10, 2006)

What are the parents' names? That would help with the search.


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## Leecaouette (Jan 16, 2007)

If he checked out 100% at a well known Vet, what would be the concern?


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

I'm sure some wonderful puppies can and do come from puppy mills... the real problem is the deplorable conditions that the breeding pair(s) are kept in... as these places tend to provide just enough so the animals can keep producing puppies on schedule... basically the dogs only value is as a puppy production piece of equipment. Any puppies purchased from these places only serve to keep them in full operation... I believe that is what some people here are concerned with.

I'm sure you have a wonderful little puppy and he will have a wonderful life with you and as far as any of us know he may not have come from one of these places... still its important that you do know these places do exist so please spread the word.

And WELCOME TO THE FORUM... and tell us about any new adventures with your new pup!!!! And ask questions when you got em.


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## Leecaouette (Jan 16, 2007)

If he checked out 100% at a very competent Vet, and seems to have better than normal behavior, my question is what should my concerns be from now on?


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## VeronicaLovesHerGoldens (May 27, 2005)

Just enjoy the little sweetie and make sure you post lots of pictures!


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## Katiesmommy (Sep 10, 2006)

VeronicaLovesHerGoldens said:


> Just enjoy the little sweetie and make sure you post lots of pictures!


Yuppers  Your pup looks cute and happy and we LOVE pics


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

Leecaouette said:


> ...what is the concern?


I don't know if you had time to actually read my posting, the one just before yours...

There are several health concerns when a puppy comes from a puppy mill but even in the case of a healthy wonderful lively little puppy, there's still the problem of the conditions the parents are being kept in. Living a whole life in tiny cages often in stacks, no regular exercise, no real human contact, their bodies are drained of life due to the demand of constantly producing puppies and when the puppies stop coming they are simply 'disposed of', etc... surely this is a wicked way to treat such a socially pack-oriented animal. I don't think any animal lover would really want to support these types of breeding situations.

However, to be clear on this... we don't know where your puppy comes from and neither do you. So this whole discussion is not really about your puppy but more as informational since it appears you were not aware of how puppy mills generally operate.


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

Checking out 100% at a puppy visit just means he wasnt sick with parsites, didnt have obvious heart murmors or obvious structural deformaties...many of those problems come as the dog ages and grows....

There is no way the vet can know if a puppy is at greater risk of hip or elbow displaysia, allergies or other autoimmune diseases, cancer, eye disease, heart problems such as SAS (Sub Aortic Stenosis) or deadly heart murmors....

There is no way for the vet to know if your pups parents were of stable temperment....

There is no way for the vet to know if your pups parents were properly structured (proportioned correctly, hips and shoulders set correctly)- poorly structured dogs often have problems jumping, swimming and running the way Goldens are supposed to...they often develop arthritis at an early age...these strucural problems get passed along to puppies...

Many breeders that sell to pet stores dont take the time or expense to have the breeding pair hearts echocardiogramed, hips and elbows xrayed for health and eyes examined for Progressive Retinal Atrophy (progressive blindness) or tumors.... or for three generations back in there breeding program...

Most of us that have rescued Goldens have run into all of the problems above....

If the petstore doesn't have or won't give you the AKC (American Kennel Club) or CKC (Canadain Kennel Club) papers.... most likely you have a puppymill puppy....

Reputable Breeders never sell to pet stores...and would proudly put their name address and phone number on any contract...they would supply at least 3 generations and all the health clearnces of the above so you can verify that the clearances are true....they would have pictures of the parents and proudly provide them to you....they would want you to stay in touch with them over time so they would know how your Golden turned out as an adult...

Dont get me wrong - well bred Goldens can have health problems too, but not nearly as often...
It doesnt mean that your pup is doomed to be sickly or fearful or agressive....but he statiscally at a higher risk...

Respectfully, Mary


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

LibertyME said:


> Checking out 100% at a puppy visit just means he wasnt sick with parsites, didnt have obvious heart murmors or obvious structural deformaties...many of those problems come as the dog ages and grows....
> 
> There is no way the vet can know if a puppy is at greater risk of hip or elbow displaysia, allergies or other autoimmune diseases, cancer, eye disease, heart problems such as SAS (Sub Aortic Stenosis) or deadly heart murmors....
> 
> ...


Very well put...... I will say I have been very lucky with my rescues... havent had any problems with them.....


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## Leecaouette (Jan 16, 2007)

Thanks Mary,

But I do have AKC papers, with name and address (I gave that info already),...i was just wondering if anyone knew about the breeder........ 

Lee


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

Leecaouette said:


> Thanks Mary,
> 
> But I do have AKC papers, with name and address (I gave that info already),...i was just wondering if anyone knew about the breeder........
> 
> Lee


If you have the akc papers , then you should be able to go to K9DATA.COM Home Page....


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

Leecaouette... did I tell you? Your puppy is very cute and don't worry too much at this point, just love the little guy.

I know all this info is coming at you at high-speed... it will take some time to digest it all... just keep hanging out on this forum and we will help you raise this little guy.


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

Maggies mom said:


> If you have the akc papers , then you should be able to go to K9DATA.COM Home Page....


I was thinking the same thing. With parents names, you may be able to find them on K9data...

Also, you can look them up on the AKC.org site, as well.


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## njb (Oct 5, 2006)

I did spent some time on 'google'--here is a link to a state report about the puppy mill problem in Missouri---http://www.auditor.mo.gov/press/2004-91.pdf

MY concern about buying a puppy in a pet store is that they most always come from backyard breeders who want to make a fast buck or a puppy mill--good breeders do not sell to pet stores. Everyone is so happy you love your little darling--as you should--and we are not dog snobs at all--

I would would personally would not buy a dog from any pet store--just because I know how they get them--it takes about 30 seconds on google to find the pics of the places these poor doggies come from.


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## LaurJen (Aug 10, 2006)

njb said:


> I would would personally would not buy a dog from any pet store.


But she (or he) already has the dog and loves it and it's beautiful. She just asked a simple question on how to locate the breeder, not "should I buy a puppy from a pet store?" I know how everyone feels about puppy mills (and rightly so, of course), but the responses seem almost "attacking" if you read through the whole thread.


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## njb (Oct 5, 2006)

I think most of us have been supportive of the love of the pup--but concerned---mills always bring up deep emotions/strong feelings with dog lovers. 

It is a great thing to love the pup--still I would not buy a pup from a pet store because I know how they get them--maybe the original poster did not know that--it is a good thing to learn about these things. Sadly--the papers from the pet store--might not be reflective of the real parents. As if a mill is honest about anything--


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## Lexie's Mom (Dec 14, 2005)

Alot of people rescue dogs from shelters. They do not have papers either so let's not be so quick to judge. Don't get me wrong, rescues are ideal but let's not beat someone up because of where she bought her puppy. Just my opinion. Health concerns can happen even to the most well bred puppy.  

Welcome to the forum!!!!!


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

Your puppy is adorable...look forward to seeing more pictures...
Clearly you love him...ultimately that is the what we all want for all Goldens...someone that will love them and care for their physical and psychological health...
Your puppy is one of the lucky ones...and you will be blessed with a wonderful companion, Im certain...
I am new to this board and have found great advice, stories and tons of incredible Golden pictures to fawn over... 

Regards,
Mary


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

I must have missed something?????Im the one who posted in the beginning about Lamar being a puppy mill town.....


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

If the dog came from a puppy store he came from a puppy mill. Doesn't mean he isn't precious. Doesn't mean you don't adore him!!! But it's a fact of life. NO GOOD BREEDER WOULD EVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES EVER sell a dog to a petstore for resale. Period.

My own dog from such a breeder. I love him dearly.


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## njb (Oct 5, 2006)

I think the whole point of what we are saying--if a. if the dog came from a petstore, b. the dog came from a bad breeder, so c. the papers, whatever they say have a very good chance of being just plain ole b.s.--research the parents--but don't be surprised if it accomplishes nothing. 

Love the puppy--oh please do! I would not care where my girl came from--I would love here the same. Papers are not really even the issue--except for you can see the quality of dog they came from--but even that is no guarantee.


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## Leecaouette (Jan 16, 2007)

Wow,....thanks for the input,.....but you guys get carried away quick! I actually have another 10 year old Golden with AKC papers by the way. Although Riley came from a very high end local pet center (paid over $1,000 for him), there is absolutely nothing that he is more susceptible to than other Golden’s at this point. I have consulted with multiple Vet’s (Trained at Dartmouth, Texas A & M University and University of Liverpool in England w/BVSC and M.R.C.V.S. degrees). It seems as though this thread became very emotionally directed, and not what I was looking for. Thank you all for your input, but I have found Riley’s family tree and Pedigree papers.


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

Ha,ha,ha,ha... I'm glad you took this all the right way...
I got a little worried there when you signed off earlier...

Its good to know you've got another Golden... how's he feel about the newest member to your family?


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