# Benefits of Clicker Training w/ 6 mo. old puppy?



## klynn5021 (Jun 20, 2012)

My Golden Retriever is about to turn 6 months old in a couple of days and we recentely aquired a clicker. An old family friend borrowed it to us, so I dont have a booklet with information or anything, just the clicker. Now to my knowledge, it works like this.. You tell your dog a command.. eg, sit. The dog sits; As soon as they sit, you click the clicker and reward your dog with a small treat. Am I missing anything? To me I dont really understand the benefits of training with a clicker. Could someone please tell me? Do you think its a better or more effective way of training a puppy, or is it just an unneeded nuisance? I dont want to go through training him if its not going to make the training any easier! Any information on clickers would certainly be helpful.


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

JMHO - a clicker is a very powerful tool, but it can be made very weak unless you take the time to understand why & how it works.

For now, put the clicker on top of the fridge until you have a better understanding...

There are some great websites out there and even some really good youtube teachers... there are some crappy ones on you tube too so use caution!

Here is one - it is a pretty commercial site, but the info is good...
Karen Pryor Clickertraining | The Leader in Positive Reinforcement Training
If you scroll down you will see "Newcomer Favorites"


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

It is a great way to teach and train! Tons of fun to see your dog use its mind to figure out how to make you click!


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

I taught my horse to fetch using a clicker.
I had hurt my back and couldn't ride or work him in the standard way so......

He absolutely loved it and would search for ways to get his click and reward. the sweatshirt did not survive his fetching and playing with it.:doh:


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## RShea (Sep 17, 2012)

Fetch with a horse has to be an entertaining sight!


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

Another resource I frequently see recommended on here are videos by "kikopup" on YouTube. I haven't watched them personally though, so I can't say much about them.

I'm not sure if you've had the chance to read much over at the Karen Pryor site (or elsewhere), but I do want to clarify the steps of clicker training for you a little bit. Giving a command (sit, down, spin, beg, whatever) is never your first step. The clicker is used to teach a new behavior -- so, in that moment your dog has no idea what the word you are saying means. The first thing you want to do is get your dog to perform the desired behavior. This can be done in one of three ways:

1. Capturing: Click when your dog spontaneously performs the desired action. I know people who have taught their dogs to "sneeze" on command doing it this way. I personally taught my Oz to do a play bow on command this way -- he can't help himself but to do it repeatedly in sand. We happened to be in a sandy environment, and I just captured it a few times. Then things got a little more complicated because I had to get him to generalize that behavior to different surfaces... but that's beyond what I'm getting at here. It can also be helpful for sit, down, looking at you, raising an eyebrow, cocking their ears a certain way, tilting their head.... anything your dog may happen to do on their own accord. 

2. Luring. Now there are some (actually, I think Karen Pryor is one of them) who feels that luring is a step outside of "pure" clicker training. But let's face it... sometimes that's really the easiest and quickest way to go. Most people will do this when initially teaching sit... turning the lure into an eventual hand signal. Same for down. It can be helpful for getting your dog to turn a particular direction, or do it a spin. 

3. Shaping. Now this is really the bread and butter of clicker training... it's also (in my opinion) the hardest part. With shaping, you basically capture a small piece of the behavior and then build on it. So I want my dog to spin to the right, for example. Maybe the first thing I click is him turning his head toward the right. He gets a click or two for that and then he has to work harder for the next click. So he turns his head, gets nothing, tries turning it again further and winds up taking a step in that direction --- click! Then maybe I want more than one step. Then maybe a quarter turn, half turn, or whatever until I get him to go all the way around. A dog who is brought up with this kind of training figures out pretty quick that he has to be creative and keep trying to give more. For a crossover dog (like my Jersey), it can initially be a little more difficult at first. Generally with him, when the given behavior (let's say a head turn) didn't work after he'd tried it once or twice, he'd go to his default behavior -- sitting and giving me attention. This is something I use much more often with my younger dog, though Jersey did eventually start to get the hang of it. 

So now your dog is performing a given behavior repeatedly to earn the click and reward that comes with it (a reward always follows a click. always. It does not always have to be food, but it does have to be something your dog finds highly rewarding. Food is convenient though if you are looking to squeeze in a bunch of reps in a short period of time) I don't do very well explaining this in general terms, so I'm going to lay out what I would do in a quick training session:
Let's use a sit as a very simple example. I capture a spontaneous sit. Click. Toss the treat a few steps away so the dog has to get up. He thinks about it for a minute, sniffs around a little, nudges me, turns around, looks back at me, then decides to plant his butt again. Click, toss the treat to reset. Now he looks at me, cocks his head a second, then plants his butt. Click, toss. Sit, click, toss. Sit click toss. Etc. Now I can pretty well predict that as soon as my dog finishes swallowing that treat he is going to turn toward me and plant his butt. As soon as he raises his head and starts to go, I say "Sit." He does, click, toss. "Sit," (pause, cock of the head) sit, click, toss. "Sit," sit, click, toss. Hmm, but does he understand the cue yet or is he just on autopilot? Let's interrupt the cycle a moment, walk around in a circle, give him a quick pat, whatever. "Sit," sit, click, toss. Run a few feet. "Sit," sit, click, toss. Ok, that's enough for now. Quick game of tug or fetch or something. Rest time. 

Now maybe it would or wouldn't happen this quickly for a given behavior. With something more complex, that takes more time for him to offer consistently, I may not name it during the first session (now I'm talking about a 5 minute or so training session, not drilling him for an hour). But the key is that the behavior comes first -- then we pair the cue to the behavior. 

I hope that sort of makes sense. I have a heck of a head cold right now and have found myself to be a little incoherent lately, LOL. As someone else suggested, put the clicker away for the moment, read up and watch some videos to get a better understanding, come back here to ask any questions you have -- and then give it a go! I think clicker training is a great way to teach your dog not only to perform specific behaviors, but also to get him really thinking and problem solving. Good luck!

Julie, Jersey and Oz


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

kikopup giving a simple explanation of clicker training.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Jersey's Mom gave you a great rundown of it. It's not an extra step you add to rewarding your dog for performing a skill on command. It's a way of showing your dog the precise moment he does something right so you can teach, build, and shape his behavior.

I also agree with Liberty that it's probably best not to complicate your training with it until you have a better sense of how it works. It's an incredibly powerful tool, but it'll just get in your way if you try to guess your way through it.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

I would really encourage you to sign up for a clicker training class, even if it's training you already know. It will teach you how to use the clicker, and believe me the lightbulb will go on in your mind when you see how it's used.


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## Lilliam (Apr 28, 2010)

Jersey's Mom said:


> Another resource I frequently see recommended on here are videos by "kikopup" on YouTube. I haven't watched them personally though, so I can't say much about them.
> 
> I'm not sure if you've had the chance to read much over at the Karen Pryor site (or elsewhere), but I do want to clarify the steps of clicker training for you a little bit. Giving a command (sit, down, spin, beg, whatever) is never your first step. The clicker is used to teach a new behavior -- so, in that moment your dog has no idea what the word you are saying means. The first thing you want to do is get your dog to perform the desired behavior. This can be done in one of three ways:
> 
> ...


Dangnabbit, woman, if this is you being incoherent I'd be gobsmacked when you're lucid!!!! This is the most amazing explanation I have read outside of class!!!:rockon:


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

Lilliam said:


> Dangnabbit, woman, if this is you being incoherent I'd be gobsmacked when you're lucid!!!! This is the most amazing explanation I have read outside of class!!!:rockon:


LOL, then I must have been doing better last night. You should hear the voicemails I've been leaving for my scheduler this week! I think she's about ready to smack me! :curtain:

Julie, Jersey and Oz


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## klynn5021 (Jun 20, 2012)

Thank you everyone for the helpful info!! I havent been using the clicker yet, as I too agree that I need to know EVERYTHING about it before I even attempt to use it as a training tool. Sadly, I live in a very small town, and I dont have a car or license to get where I would need to go to attend a clicker training class..


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## Dubuque dog trainer (Mar 9, 2012)

*Recommend clicker training but it is more than using a clicker*



klynn5021 said:


> My Golden Retriever is about to turn 6 months old in a couple of days and we recentely aquired a clicker. An old family friend borrowed it to us, so I dont have a booklet with information or anything, just the clicker. Now to my knowledge, it works like this.. You tell your dog a command.. eg, sit. The dog sits; As soon as they sit, you click the clicker and reward your dog with a small treat. Am I missing anything? To me I dont really understand the benefits of training with a clicker. Could someone please tell me? Do you think its a better or more effective way of training a puppy, or is it just an unneeded nuisance? I dont want to go through training him if its not going to make the training any easier! Any information on clickers would certainly be helpful.


Hi ~ I am glad that you have elected to do clicker training with your pup! However, I must tell you that clicker training is about far more than simply using a clicker in training. For starters, we do not use "commands," but rather "cues." Cues are an opportunity for reinforcement, whereas commands are orders. Also, we do not add the cue until the dog has learned the behavior. There are many benefits to clicker training ~ if you are truly doing clicker training ~ 1) the dog learns to love training and 2) learns to learn, 3) he remembers what he has learned for a very long time, perhaps forever, and 4) you will strengthen your bond immensely. Clicker training is the most versatile, sophisticated, precise method of training available. It is the type of training used by the world's foremost animals trainers and can be used to train virtually any animal to do anything it is physically able to do. 

I suggest you look for a Karen Pryor Academy Certified Training Partner in your area: https://www.karenpryoracademy.com/find-a-trainer?source=fpme. If you can't find one, look for a good book on the Karen Pryor website: Karen Pryor Clicker Training | The Leader in Positive Reinforcement Training There are a lot of people out there now as clicker training has become more popular saying they are clicker trainers who are not. 

Here is a link to an article I wrote that will give you an overview of clicker training: Clicker Training. What is it?

Don't be deceived into thinking that clicker training is just about using a clicker in training. It is relatively easy for pet owners to learn from a qualified trainer, but is about much more than the clicker. It is a philosophy and training methodology. It is positive reinforcement training with the use of a marker signal. It involves building behaviors in a systematic way based on the science of learning and knowing when and how to add or change cues. You will need to learn about "clicker mechanics" to be effective. Also, know that genuine clicker trainers do not use any type of correction.

Good luck and Happy clicking!


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Dubuque dog trainer said:


> There are many benefits to clicker training ~ if you are truly doing clicker training ~ 1) the dog learns to love training and 2) learns to learn, 3) he remembers what he has learned for a very long time, perhaps forever, and 4) you will strengthen your bond immensely.


I wouldn't say those are benefits of clicker training, those are just benefits of any good training in general.


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Molly comes running ready to work when she sees/hears me getting out the clicker.


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## Lilliam (Apr 28, 2010)

Vhuynh2 said:


> Molly comes running ready to work when she sees/hears me getting out the clicker.


heehee....there are two things that get my guys going...the sight of a package of chicken livers with the pan going on the stove and th.er clicker coming out of the drawer. 
They literally materialise out of thin air.


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## Dubuque dog trainer (Mar 9, 2012)

Loisiana said:


> I wouldn't say those are benefits of clicker training, those are just benefits of any good training in general.


Good training _is_ clicker training. As a Karen Pryor Academy Certified Training Partner, I can assure you that there is no other type of training that comes close to clicker training, and these are distinct benefits of clicker training. What many people fail to understand is that clicker training is not about the clicker. It is much more. It is a philosophy and methodology of training with important underlying principles that are used in the artful application of these principles in building behaviors in a very systematic way.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I am aware of what clicker training is. But I do not agree that clicker training is the only good kind of training nor the only type of training that can give the benefits you listed. I don't use clicker training (I have on occasion used a clicker, but I do not use clicker training method), which of the benefits you listed do you believe my dogs do not receive?


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Dubuque dog trainer said:


> Good training _is_ clicker training. As a Karen Pryor Academy Certified Training Partner, I can assure you that there is no other type of training that comes close to clicker training, and these are distinct benefits of clicker training. What many people fail to understand is that clicker training is not about the clicker. It is much more. It is a philosophy and methodology of training with important underlying principles that are used in the artful application of these principles in building behaviors in a very systematic way.


I don't quite understand this statement. Are you saying that clicker training using Pryor's model beats every other training methodology in all the areas listed here?



> ...the dog learns to love training and 2) learns to learn, 3) he remembers what he has learned for a very long time, perhaps forever, and 4) you will strengthen your bond immensely.


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## Bentleysmom (Aug 11, 2012)

Edited because this is none of my business. Good luck with clicker training it's loads of fun!


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## mflag714 (Dec 7, 2011)

First off...KUDOS to Jersey's mom for a wonderful, clear, education explanation of clicker training!!!!

We used clicker training with our pup cooper. Started when he was 8weeks watchingg one of karen pryor's videos. Then did puppy training classes 1 and 2 over a 10 week period. 

We found for us and our pup it worked very well. Also, when he needs some "remediation" as he is going thru a bit of a rebellious adolscent stage since he turned 1yr a few weeks ago and I feel it makes it much easier re-inforcing good behaviour. 

It does take time, consistency by all members of the family, LOTS of treats, and a committment to multiple brief training sessions daily. We did 5 mins 2 or 3 times a day and it was amazing how quickly he learned!

I thought this was a good site for "lessons" Clicker Training Lessons - FAQ

just my $.02


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I find it almost laughable that someone could try to claim that my dog doesn't love to train. 

I can't imagine making those kind of blanket statements that would impress many about the Karen Pryor Academy, to me it just says they much be serving some pretty strong koolaid over there


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## Dubuque dog trainer (Mar 9, 2012)

Loisiana said:


> I find it almost laughable that someone could try to claim that my dog doesn't love to train.
> 
> I can't imagine making those kind of blanket statements that would impress many about the Karen Pryor Academy, to me it just says they much be serving some pretty strong koolaid over there


Who said your dog doesn't love to train? Why are you so hostile toward clicker training? I think your remarks are unnecessarily hostile. If you were to do some research you would learn that this is the method of training that is used by the world's top animal trainers. It is extremely versatile and can be used to train virtually any animal to do anything it is physically able to do. Enough with the "koolaid" analogy. This isn't a belief system. It is reproducible science.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

If I somehow misunderstood your posts then I apologize for getting out of sorts, but the way I read what you initially wrote and your responses was that clicker training was the only good training method and the only one that will lead to a dog loving to train, learning how to learn, remembering what they learn, and creating a bond. I have no problems with someone saying clicker training is great, but I do have a problem if someone is saying that it's the only good way to train or any of the other things listed above.


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## Dubuque dog trainer (Mar 9, 2012)

Loisiana said:


> I am aware of what clicker training is. But I do not agree that clicker training is the only good kind of training nor the only type of training that can give the benefits you listed. I don't use clicker training (I have on occasion used a clicker, but I do not use clicker training method), which of the benefits you listed do you believe my dogs do not receive?


I didn't say that clicker training is "the only good kind of training." I said it is the best. I didn't say it is the only kind of training that can strengthen your bond with your pet or create long term memory for what has been learned, but research and experience have demonstrated that these characteristics define clicker training. Clicker training is not a-free "method." It is the artful application of the scientific principles of animal learning and behavior to training. It is basically force-free positive reinforcement training with a marker signal, but is a very distinct way to train in that there are no corrections, we use cues rather than commands, minimize luring, add the cue after the animal has learned the behavior, minimize body movement, use good "clicker mechanics," capture and shape behaviors, etc. Did you read my article?


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## Dubuque dog trainer (Mar 9, 2012)

tippykayak said:


> I don't quite understand this statement. Are you saying that clicker training using Pryor's model beats every other training methodology in all the areas listed here?


There is no such thing as "Pryor's model." Clicker training is defined by the professionals who practice it and is based on basic behavior science. It goes way back at least 75 years to B.F. Skinner and Kellar Breland who was the first to have used clicker training in the 1940's. Yes, I am saying that (genuine) clicker training is characterized by what I wrote.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I'm not going to get into an argument about what the "best" kind of training is, since best is obviously an opinion word and not the best for me. I prefer having a much more hands on approach to my training, my hands are all over my dogs while we're training, that's part of what I like so much about training, I'm not for the hands-off approach. It really doesn't matter to me what science says, I work off of what works for us, and my dogs learn just great and we have a blast training. I have nothing against people who use clicker training, it's just not for me.


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## Dubuque dog trainer (Mar 9, 2012)

I'm a certified clicker trainer (Karen Pryor Academy Certified Training Partner) and I agree, the "Kikopup" videos by Emily Larlham are good videos, true to genuine clicker training. You can also read my article on Animal Info Publications for an overview of what clicker training is and is not. There is an accompanying video for the 2-part article I wrote on getting started with clicker training. Clicker training is about far more than simply using a clicker in training. It is about the way we build behaviors, that we do not use corrections in training, about knowing when to click and when and how to add cues, about using cues rather than commands, about minimizing body movement and luring, etc. I recommend looking for a Karen Pryor Academy Certified Training Partner to learn from - you can look on the KPA website. The KPA is recommended by veterinary behaviorists as a reliable source for training information.


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## OutWest (Oct 6, 2011)

klynn5021 said:


> My Golden Retriever is about to turn 6 months old in a couple of days and we recentely aquired a clicker. An old family friend borrowed it to us, so I dont have a booklet with information or anything, just the clicker. Now to my knowledge, it works like this.. You tell your dog a command.. eg, sit. The dog sits; As soon as they sit, you click the clicker and reward your dog with a small treat. Am I missing anything? To me I dont really understand the benefits of training with a clicker. Could someone please tell me? Do you think its a better or more effective way of training a puppy, or is it just an unneeded nuisance? I dont want to go through training him if its not going to make the training any easier! Any information on clickers would certainly be helpful.


Just wanted to add my two cents... A: If you're going to utilize the clicker, it's important to do it correctly. If you start off wrong, it will just confuse the dog. So you need to train yourself before you start training the dog. B: You don't have to carry a clicker around for the rest of the dog's life ... it's just for training the desired behavior (may be obvious to others, but it's something no one ever explained to me). 

*The basic underlying purpose of the clicker sound is to mark the exact moment when a dog does what you want it to do*, then it gets a reward. Because I was inept with the clicker, I chose a different marker--I use the word "yes!" in a happy voice. Example: I was having a great deal of trouble getting Tucker to get into the car when asked to. I finally realized (silly me) that he didn't understand what I wanted. I started saying "yes!" when he put his feet onto the seat, and then when got into the car, etc. His reward was pats and hugs, etc. It took about two times for him to "get it." Since he's a dog that really wants to please all the time, using "yes!" to mark good behavior has really worked for him. I've started using it with my new GR, Bella, and she's figured out what it means, too. Since I carry my voice around with me all the time, I find it easier than a clicker! Good luck with whatever training method you choose.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I'm a big fan of the clicker, and have clicker trained all my goldens in puppyhood. They are creative in offering behaviors, and internally motivated to get to the click. It also helps me be precise, as I will get slightly sloppy with the word "yes" as a marker. We give our students here the option of using the clicker/yes in STAR Puppy bc some people do feel an aversion to it. I like that they learn how to learn without punishment.


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## Dubuque dog trainer (Mar 9, 2012)

Ljilly28 said:


> I'm a big fan of the clicker, and have clicker trained all my goldens in puppyhood. They are creative in offering behaviors, and internally motivated to get to the click. It also helps me be precise, as I will get slightly sloppy with the word "yes" as a marker. We give our students here the option of using the clicker/yes in STAR Puppy bc some people do feel an aversion to it. I like that they learn how to learn without punishment.


Clicker training isn't about using a clicker. As a certified clicker trainer I teach my students how to use it, but I do not us a clicker to teach everything. It's important for people to understand the underlying principles of clicker training and that it isn't just about using a clicker.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Dubuque dog trainer said:


> I'm a certified clicker trainer (Karen Pryor Academy Certified Training Partner) and I agree, the "Kikopup" videos by Emily Larlham are good videos, true to genuine clicker training. You can also read my article on Animal Info Publications for an overview of what clicker training is and is not. There is an accompanying video for the 2-part article I wrote on getting started with clicker training. Clicker training is about far more than simply using a clicker in training. It is about the way we build behaviors, that we do not use corrections in training, about knowing when to click and when and how to add cues, about using cues rather than commands, about minimizing body movement and luring, etc. I recommend looking for a Karen Pryor Academy Certified Training Partner to learn from - you can look on the KPA website. The KPA is recommended by veterinary behaviorists as a reliable source for training information.


What is the _purpose_ of training for you though, and does clicker training accomplish those purposes? Do your dogs have titles proving this training? Have you attained high level titles on multiple dogs and have your dogs been put in positions and situations where the training is proven (without use of food or training collars or harnesses)?

That's really what it comes down to for a lot of people, and sometimes it is why there isn't enough enthusiasm when people say they are certified trainers. 

I know of a couple trainers here in Michigan who are certified through specific training programs, but they more importantly have actual titles on their own dogs, actively show their dogs in obedience, and are continuing education (attend seminars, take private training classes with other trainers, etc). And more importantly, these people respect other trainers in their area and the results that those trainers attain, and I believe they forward students to those trainers if they themselves can't help.


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## Dubuque dog trainer (Mar 9, 2012)

I generally steer clear of forums due to this type of derogatory exchange. If anyone is looking for reliable information about clicker training, you can post a question to me on Expert Booth or via my website. I'm outta here. Best wishes to those who are open to learning and prayers to those who aren't.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Megora said:


> Do your dogs have titles proving this training? Have you attained high level titles on multiple dogs and have your dogs been put in positions and situations where the training is proven (without use of food or training collars or harnesses)?


^ What I asked, as nicely as possible...



Dubuque dog trainer said:


> I generally steer clear of forums due to this type of derogatory exchange. If anyone is looking for reliable information about clicker training, you can post a question to me on Expert Booth or via my website. I'm outta here. Best wishes to those who are open to learning and prayers to those who aren't.


I can only assume this means that there are no titles or "proof" of training beyond the dog and owner's comfort zone.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Dubuque dog trainer said:


> I generally steer clear of forums due to this type of derogatory exchange. If anyone is looking for reliable information about clicker training, you can post a question to me on Expert Booth or via my website. I'm outta here. Best wishes to those who are open to learning and prayers to those who aren't.


I am at a loss & puzzled by this bc the most combative tone is your own. Many people on this thread are more than receptive to clicker training, and those who are not have long experience abiding by the forum rules of discourse. The vast majority of comments here are just fine.


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## OutWest (Oct 6, 2011)

There's an expression about the how those who convert to a religion are the most dedicated and single-minded about it... I think that applies here. Problem is, people aren't generally looking to be converted and most people don't respond that well to flat statements of superiority. If you've left, so be it, but this forum is better when there are multiple voices on the many topics discussed.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Ljilly28 said:


> I am at a loss & puzzled by this bc the most combative tone is your own. Many people on this thread are more than receptive to clicker training, and those who are not have long experience abiding by the forum rules of discourse. The vast majority of comments here are just fine.


And some people use some form of clicker training in their training. 

This person need only look back at her past posts on this forum to see I've been nice to her. It's only when people make what seem to be absolute statements and push their program and their website (where they sell a product) that my eyebrows shoot upwards. 

I'm not going to comment on the typos or ridiculous assertions I saw on her website w/regards to training, but I do see she apparently teaches novice and open obedience and I'm interested in her credentials behind teaching those courses. Particularly w/regards to competition obedience. 

By posting sales pitches on forums, you have to expect people to ask you what your proven credentials are.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Dubuque dog trainer said:


> There is no such thing as "Pryor's model." Clicker training is defined by the professionals who practice it and is based on basic behavior science. It goes way back at least 75 years to B.F. Skinner and Kellar Breland who was the first to have used clicker training in the 1940's. Yes, I am saying that (genuine) clicker training is characterized by what I wrote.


I used the term "Pryor's model" because I recognized your "clicker training vs. training with a clicker" language. Clicker training is defined by a lot of different people in a lot of different ways. Most people simply use it to refer to any piece of training that uses a clicker (which is fairly logical). A subset of trainers refer to it the way you do, and they tend to be Pryor fans.

For example, I frequently train with a clicker and the shaping principles outlined in your article. However, I am not a "clicker trainer" by the definition you lay out nor Pryor's. I tend to use clicker principles when teaching new behaviors but not always after a behavior is learned.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Dubuque dog trainer said:


> I generally steer clear of forums due to this type of derogatory exchange. If anyone is looking for reliable information about clicker training, you can post a question to me on Expert Booth or via my website. I'm outta here. Best wishes to those who are open to learning and prayers to those who aren't.


I too am really confused by your reaction. The only negative responses you got were in reaction to the absolutist nature of your statements.

There are lots of ways to take advantage of the most recent research into animal behavior. Clicker training, both the way you define it and the way I do, is excellent at that. However, to state that it's the _only_ or the _best_ way to capture that is a bit over the top.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

One thing Kate mentioned with which I agree is that credentials for teaching Open obedience really should incluse a CDX imo. Maybe she has that credential too? I really don't know bc most of it whizzed right by me, I do not see anything horribly upsetting.


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## OutWest (Oct 6, 2011)

Actually, now that I look back on these threads and the tenor of some of her posts, I'm amused. She possibly knows how to train dogs, but she doesn't know much training (i.e., communicating with) humans. Click!


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## Rewardthatpuppy (Oct 24, 2012)

*Clicker Trained Obed./ Agility*

I trained for the the first few years of my Goldens life using aversive methods, (choke, Prong, etc). without much success teaching the basics.
Using the clicker methodology, My golden boy blossomed and I decided to compete.

We have obtained our CD, RE (working on RAE), AKC Agility, to the Open Level, and Canine Peformance Events. (along with Certified Therapy Dog). I can't remember a time that we didn't place in the top 3 positions, going home with ribbons. 
I would have gone further in competition but he came down with seizures.

So no I haven't won an OTCH, but have successfully shown him in many competitive sports training with a clicker. Clicker is used to train the behavior and once solid it was weaned.

I remember my first Novice Obedience leg. 10 dogs and he took 1st place Saturday and 1st place on Sunday. 

Everybody's mouth dropped and asked me if I got a new dog because they remembered him as a tyrant. The instructor who told me."He will never be in the show ring" was more surprised. 

The best comment was from the judge himself..."This is how a dog should perform. With vitality and sheer joy to perform. You truly are a team" I was surprised and asked him "doesn't everyone". He said, "No..dogs do the skills but you can tell they sure aren't happy"

So yes, I have competed with a click trained dog to success as far as we could go. I also see folks using clicker methodology by saying YES or making a sound used to mark the behavior wanted. They felt uncomfortable with the clicker or physically (because of arthritis) coudn't click fast enough. What is important is that no force, fear, intimidation, prong, choke collar were used.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Congrats on your success in the obedience ring - I don't care what methods people use if their dogs are happy and enjoying their time out there. 

Please understand that I train around people of all kinds - including those who use clickers or positive handling only, as well as people who use e-collars on their dogs (for field training). And I see a lot of very happy dogs who enjoy what they are doing. 

There are no absolutes. Different dogs need different handling skills. 

I couldn't use a clicker because my timing sucked. I use the "yes" word, and it has definitely helped "target" specific behaviors that I wanted to train my dog. 

But I also set my dog up and help him get the idea faster (guiding him into a proper sit, using pop corrections, doing shoulder or butt tags, using my hand to guide him, putting dumbbells RIGHT IN HIS MOUTH, etc). I believe on the website of that person I was questioning earlier - I use *COMPULSION*. His regular training collar is a choke chain and I have put a prong on him when I want to tighten up his heeling.  And no, it has not made my dog aggressive, or whatever. :bowl: If used inappropriately, the dogs tune out the prongs and choke chains and pop corrections.


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## Lilliam (Apr 28, 2010)

^^^Yup. Some dogs have more opinions than others. 

I use the clicker, but I've also used body position, for example, to train flanks on a sheepdog. Or to block forward movement that was too fast.

There are lots of positive choices for different activities and disciplines.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I'm opinionated, but did you just call me a dog?


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## pandamonium (Apr 18, 2012)

coppers-mom said:


> I taught my horse to fetch using a clicker.
> I had hurt my back and couldn't ride or work him in the standard way so......
> 
> He absolutely loved it and would search for ways to get his click and reward. the sweatshirt did not survive his fetching and playing with it.:doh:


Absolutely any time you need a house sitter/pet sitter...you call me! That horse of yours is adorable! (serious about the offer!)


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I love a happy working dog. 

I think the key to a happy dog in the obedience ring, especially the higher levels, is for them to thoroughly know their job. I think for most dogs their ring attitude has nothing to do with the METHOD of training, rather it is how thorough was that training? Do they know what is expected of them without the presence of external rewards? Do they know what to do if there is something distracting? Do they know what to do if something that worries them is present? A dog that knows how to handle all of these situations is usually a happy dog in the ring. They are confident about what they are doing. I think most dogs that look unhappy are just displaying a lack of confidence.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Jodie... you must have seen us earlier in the year and last year when we were going after our rally and BN titles.  

The same day Jacks picked up two blue ribbons for RA, he was sitting outside the ring with me and looking wild eyed and shaking. From the noise of dogs barking around us and whatever else was spooking him. He would relax and focus in on me in the ring, I think probably because working kept him from thinking about whatever was scaring him.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

my happy boy


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## Stefanie (Sep 18, 2013)

Hi there, 

I'm new to this forum, I've been trying to find as much information on clicker training as possible. I have a 5 month old Golden his name is Riley. Clicker training is going well but I have some questions (we are working with a trainer from k9 central) I am wondering do i only do clicker training when im in "teaching mode" or should I be clicking all though the day- for example if Riley and I are in the kitchen and i ask him to sit because i don't want him under foot and Riley sits should i be clicking this?


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## lhowemt (Jun 28, 2013)

I try to keep a clicker on me as much as possible. I use one of those coiled tethers and a tiny caribeaner so I can clip it to my beltloop or somethung like that. I think it is more excitung and string than just my verbal cue which is "yes!"

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## Lucylulu (Aug 4, 2013)

I'm reading through this thread and it doesn't look like Dubuque dog trainer ever goes on to say how good her dogs are /examples of her own dogs. Plus the high and mighty attitude that clicking is best is a bit off putting...


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## lhowemt (Jun 28, 2013)

I'm not sure whose post you are referring to, but for me clicker training is so exciting and fun! There is some old school vs new school to some degree, yes. But what other method can you use to train whales, horses, anything else? If applied correctly it is amazing, so much easier imo for a non professional to progress far and so fast. Off leash training- so much easier and the digs come sprinting back with joy.

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## lhowemt (Jun 28, 2013)

Oh, sorry, I just read some of those posts- internet drama at its best. My trainer uses karen pryor method. While I love clicker, sometimes it won't do everything. I was never able to stop Lila from chasing deer. Maybe if I was more skilled at it when she was a pup, which is why I am working so hard with Pearl now. My main priority is that she learn to turn to me when something intense is in front of us, and not to freely sprint off. Also to keep focus on me while off leash walking to reduce her distractability. Working so far! She sees a deer outside, barks, gets called, and sprints in to me.

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