# English cream or light golden breeders in Midwest



## doglover5 (May 11, 2013)

Are there any English cream or light blond golden breeders that do all the health clearances and don't charge an arm and a leg in the Midwest? Looking for a puppy within a one days drive of Chicago.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Welcome to the forum! It can be very difficult to find a reputable breeder who can guarantee they can sell you a very pale puppy since color isn't the first consideration when a good breeder plans a litter of puppies. Have you contacted your local golden retriever clubs? Here are a couple websites you could take a look at.... 

DocMar Goldens - Golden Retrievers & Havanese -  Duluth MN

Top Hat Golden Retrievers - Home Page


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## doglover5 (May 11, 2013)

I'm looking for a English/American mix if there is such a thing. I like certain aspects of each type. I'm really not finding much out there.


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## drofen (Feb 2, 2013)

doglover5 said:


> I'm looking for a English/American mix if there is such a thing. I like certain aspects of each type. I'm really not finding much out there.


Perhaps you could let us know which characteristics of each type you are after?


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## doglover5 (May 11, 2013)

As far as personality, we like laid back which the English are supposed to be. More of a conformation dog, not field type. We light short, stocky, big boned. My husband likes the white, I like light golden. I'm looking for a mix thinking that would make us both happy!


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

What you are looking for does not seem particularly limited to the English style to me.

Here is an all-American girl, who who seems to fit your description (except for short-she is a big girl). She (and her littermates) are very sweet and laidback, including the boys:

Pedigree: Am/Can CH Tahnee's Play'N Heart To Get

She had light and dark littermates, all of whom have much the same "look" with slightly different coat colors.

You don't need to limit yourself to just English style breeders, based on what you said you like. Find a breeder whose style you like and who does all clearances, etc. and then ask about upcoming breedings and which ones are likely to produce a dog which fits your desires.

Color is certainly the least important aspect but there are definitely well-bred, lighter dogs out there.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Energy level can be tough to "gaurentee". Either style has both laid back and more energized dogs. Unfortunately, unscrupulous "greeders" of English style dogs love to perpetuate the myth that they are all more laid back. This is more dependent on the individual dogs being bred and not the style. 
Even then you can get some supprises. My new girl Tilt should by all rights be a holy terror as both her parents although biddable are *high* drive. She is not and her whole litter was some of the clamest puppies I have seen. I am thinking they threw back to great grandma who was very chill.

I know you might not want to travel, but if I wanted English style and still lived in Indiana, I would also be looking in the Onterio area. The English style is popular in that region and has a lot of established, registered breeders.


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## goldentemperment (May 16, 2012)

doglover5 said:


> Are there any English cream or light blond golden breeders that do all the health clearances and don't charge an arm and a leg in the Midwest? Looking for a puppy within a one days drive of Chicago.


There's a great thread on this forum about things to consider when getting a golden retriever puppy. I really encourage you to check it out:

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...er-puppy/22440-puppy-buyers-fact-checker.html

No doubt, you've seen golden retriever breeders advertising "English Cream" goldens, and so that's part of the golden retriever world you've experienced, but a lot of people find the marketing of a golden's color to be off-putting, and with good reason: temperament, health, and conformation to a breeder's goals (breed conformation, hunting, agility, obedience, etc) ought to be the primary concern for a breeder.

In my experience, I've seen, on average, conformation goldens tend to be lighter color, and field/hunting goldens to be darker color, and I think a lot of that is due to breeders targeting particular dogs that suit their goals for a litter.

There certainly are a lot of golden breeders in the midwest. I think the phrase "arm and a leg" is a little subjective. A golden from a breeder who follows the GRCA code of ethics and hits all the bullet points in the midwest will sell dogs in the $800-$1400 range.

Finding an "English Cream" golden breeder in the midwest who doesn't necessarily hit those bullet points, but markets based on color, will probably cost you $1200-$2000 (that's my experience anyway...there's always 1-offs).

Certainly, you can find goldens for $300-$600 in the midwest, but I can guarantee those breeders almost certainly will not follow the GRCA code of ethics, and therefore your puppy will be at a higher risk for hip dysplasia, elbow displasia, Subaortic Stenosis, and Pigmentary uveitis (among other things).

There's debate about how much more likely a dog is to develop some of those issues when they don't have a pedigree full of health clearances, but I'm not sure there's a ton of data around it (I've seen people refer to data that says a dog is twice as likely to develop elbow or hip dysplasia if there is dysplasia in the parents or grandparents...but I don't remember the exact situation where that likelihood increases).

Good luck in your quest. There are some great breeders in the midwest, and often they can provide you direction if they don't have any pups available.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> Certainly, you can find goldens for $300-$600 in the midwest, but I can guarantee those breeders almost certainly will not follow the GRCA code of ethics, and therefore your puppy will be at a higher risk for hip dysplasia, elbow displasia, Subaortic Stenosis, and Pigmentary uveitis (among other things).


More to the point, you are not going to find a good puppy under $1000 - particularly based on what you are looking for.


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## doglover5 (May 11, 2013)

As far as price goes, it looks like the English types are almost double in cost. I have seen $2,000 for boys, $2,500 for girls. So, no one here can recommend any breeders that breed the white/light goldens?? I know they don't show well, so I don't think a breeder interested in showing would breed this look, but I'm not sure what is wrong with a breeder just breeding for a hobby, not for a dog to show, or for agility etc.


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## murphy1 (Jun 21, 2012)

Murphy is very light in color of the English type. He is as far from "laid back" as you can get!!! His breeder is from Massachusetts though.


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## murphy1 (Jun 21, 2012)

Try the website "english golden retreivers of north america". Then click on breeders. They list a few through out the country. I'm sure many people here will know some of these breeders. Good luck.


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## GoldensGirl (Aug 2, 2010)

doglover5 said:


> I'm looking for a English/American mix if there is such a thing. I like certain aspects of each type. I'm really not finding much out there.


You might take a look at Lycinan, if you are able to handle a very active dog: Lycinan Goldens- Quality AKC Golden Retrievers- Harford County, Maryland. I believe they have a couple of litters now and at least one of them has that mix of English/American traits that you're looking for. They are located north of Baltimore, MD.

Good luck!


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## doglover5 (May 11, 2013)

Thanks goldensgirl! Their dog Corky is exactly what we are looking for. I sent her an email, so I hope I hear back soon! However, when you say "active" what exactly do you mean??


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## janababy (Jan 2, 2012)

We got Buddy (English Golden) from Simaril Kennels in Grimsby Ontario, roughly a 45 minute drive from the Buffalo border. A year and a half ago when we got Buddy she was asking $850.00 for her pups. We got Buddy when he was 3 months old, we were charged $800.00 because he was older. I do believe that they are expecting a litter during the first week of June. I realize that it is a bit of stretch but it might be worth the travel. Good luck with finding your pup.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

doglover5 said:


> As far as price goes, it looks like the English types are almost double in cost. I have seen $2,000 for boys, $2,500 for girls. So, no one here can recommend any breeders that breed the white/light goldens?? I know they don't show well, so I don't think a breeder interested in showing would breed this look, but I'm not sure what is wrong with a breeder just breeding for a hobby, not for a dog to show, or for agility etc.


First, JMHO this price difference for puppies always drives me crazy. If they are pet puppies, that are being sold on a spay/nuter contract as they should, *why* a difference in price? Honestly, I have not seen a reputable breeder have this price differnce. I think it is a hold over from the deeply puppy mill/byb practice of selling on full registration with the thought that girl puppy buyers would be able to breed an produce puppies which means a uterus should cost more. My though is for puppy buyers if there is a price difference (I don't think there should be one at all) girls should be less since the spay surgery is more expensive.

Also, I just don't buy it when "English Cream" greeders point to competition as impossible, so why try. Yes, it is very difficult to get an AKC Champion, but as Sydney Pedigree: Am./Can. CH. Goldtreve Sydney Traveler proves a nice dog with selective showing, can do it.
Brewski, Pedigree: Can Ch Aurgwyn Brewski at Moon Ridge CGC CCA CD lives in Vermont but was sent to Canada to earn his Candian Ch as English style does better in the ring up there. On top of that he has a GRCA Certificate of Conformation Assessment and an obiedience title. 
Brick, Pedigree: Intl Sh. Ch. Lochinvar's Sure Bet of Fenwood RN MH NAP OJP WCX TDI, Can. WCI shows that versatility is out there to, he has a UCI Ch, several Obeidence titles, hunting titles and a tracking title. 

There unfortunately a lot of folks out there who are breeding "English Cream" (which is a red flag) because they know they can breed with no titles, accomplishments or clearences and still make a lot of money.

There are folks out there doing a great job with English style goldens, it might mean some traveling, but I suggest finding someone who is doing it right and support them. 

Here is a previous post of mine that covers reasons why having titles behind your new puppy is important.

Hope this helps and good luck,


LJack said:


> "This is a question that a lot of puppy buyers have. I don't want a show dog, why should I care about champions or performance titles in the pedigree?
> 
> 1. When you buy from a breeder who is actively competing and showing, they are out there in the fancy. They are talking to other breeders, attending seminars, gaining knowledge of structure, heritable diseases, bloodlines and care. This means they are not working in a vacuum.
> 
> ...


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## GoldensGirl (Aug 2, 2010)

doglover5 said:


> Thanks goldensgirl! Their dog Corky is exactly what we are looking for. I sent her an email, so I hope I hear back soon! However, when you say "active" what exactly do you mean??


You are welcome! Owner Cindy is slow to respond to email, but she usually returns phone calls promptly. Remember, though, that she is busy with a lot of young puppies right now, so try to be patient.

What do I mean by active? The dogs need a lot of exercise and something to occupy their bright minds. As one friend put it, they need a job to do! Read the About page and the one on Wins and Brags on the breeder site. If you're like me and the string of titles is alphabet soup, do some Forum reading about those titles so you have a sense of what it takes to win them and then you'll probably understand a bit better. Corky is a daughter of Bling Bling, who is a very energetic gal. Andrew is a son of Big Bang, which also suggests a dog with a need for a good bit of exercise. I know what that means because we have a young female out of a Bling Bling x Big Bank litter and our youngster is a whirlwind of creative enthusiasm! She is also a sweet, attentive velcro-Golden girl who loves to cuddle.

Just in case this isn't clear, I'm a "pet person," not an expert on breeding or competition. I learned about this breeder from a GRF member when we were looking for a puppy a few years ago. I found Cindy very responsive to questions. She chooses puppies for the people who get them rather than allowing the prospective owners to choose, and she does her best to match the puppies to the right homes. I was not comfortable with that at first, but since then I have learned a lot from reading breeder posts here. 

Keep reading and have fun with your search!


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

doglover5 said:


> As far as price goes, it looks like the English types are almost double in cost. I have seen $2,000 for boys, $2,500 for girls. So, no one here can recommend any breeders that breed the white/light goldens?? I know they don't show well, so I don't think a breeder interested in showing would breed this look, but I'm not sure what is wrong with a breeder just breeding for a hobby, not for a dog to show, or for agility etc.


Someone who just breeds the dogs they have, without getting objective external feedback on the structure, trainability and quality of their dogs is breeding in a vacuum. What breeders get feedback on in those competitive venues _*is what keeps the breed being the breed*_. Even with English style dogs who do not have as great a chance of getting attention in the AKC ring under all-breeders, there are plenty of other venues where a breeder can get feedback on the quality of the dogs. If you are breeding, and dedicated to preserving the integrity of the breed, which includes physical conformation, working ability, and temperament, then you seek this out. My dogs are partially English import lines, and I have been able to find plenty to do with them to get feedback on their breed-worthiness. And my puppy people appreciate that because of it their Golden retrievers look and act and learn like Golden Retrievers should. Here is another nice English blend who has done very well--he finished going BOB and Group 1, and is an owner trained and handled MH *** on top of it--the good ones, shown to judges who can appreciate them, do very well! Manny Some of the greeders who complain that their dogs do not get a fair shake, well maybe if they are showing to people who only understand the mid-Gold showdog as what a Golden is supposed to be, but more often it is just that structurally, they are not using the best dogs--so the breeder judges who are not hung up on colour will not put them up, either, as fundamental structure is so important.

There is a vet in the Chicago area, Mark Rusley, who is working with blended pedigrees. He uses the prefix Baelydon. He doesn't breed a lot, though. He used an import dog who lives at Kyon in Ontario for one litter. We have a lot of people in Ontario who use English and European lines, just because we always have--it is common, not something unusual. A few will ship puppies, but most of us do require that people come to pick up pups in person.


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