# Newbie from OHIO!!



## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Hi Shannon,

Welcome to the forum, glad you've joined us. 
Congratulations on Gemma, looking forward to seeing lots of pictures of her. 

It is usually recommended that you continue to feed the same food as the breeder is feeding for several months. 
There have been several members who had puppies that were fed BB and their pups had problems with it BB seems to be too rich for some Golden pups. 

I haven't had a puppy in many many years, so I will let the members who currently have pups or had pups recently give you more information about feeding your little girl and when to change.


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

OH Thank you SOOOO much!!! I am so happy to be here and a part of such a great group! Thank you!!!!


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

Here is the most recent photo I have of her!!


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## Eowyn (Aug 29, 2013)

Welcome to the forum! I am getting my puppy in just a few short day also! Who is the breeder?


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## swishywagga (Nov 13, 2012)

Hi and welcome to the forum. Congratulations on beautiful Gemma!


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

Thank you!! And congratulations to you!!!! The breeder is Treasure Goldens....here is the website... Gemma's dad is Jade, and her mom is Sapphire!! I am so EXCITED!

English Cream Golden Retriever Puppies – Treasure Goldens


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

Thanks so much!!!!!! I couldn't be more excited!!!


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## Moonbridge (Aug 26, 2014)

Congratulations on your new puppy! I went to the breeder's website and there are a few errors with the puppy dates. You may want to let them know. It's a bit confusing.

All the best with Gemma. I hope she is a healthy, happy puppy.


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## maggiesmommy (Feb 23, 2010)

Welcome!! I grew up in Lima and went to OSU in Columbus, so I am buckeye bred myself.


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

I noticed that too, on their Website. I know Gemma's litter was born on 10/5 a Monday to jade and diamond  I will tell them about it! Thanks so much! I hope she's very healthy too. That's my biggest concern! !!


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## Eclipse (Apr 21, 2014)

Welcome! I'm an Ohio native as well. =)


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## Eowyn (Aug 29, 2013)

gemmagirl said:


> I hope she's very healthy too. That's my biggest concern! !!


If health is your biggest concern, I would highly encourage you to get a puppy from a breeder who only breeds dog with _all_ the appropriate health clearances as recommended by the Golden Retriever Club of America. While Treasure Goldens claims to do some clearances, they do not do all of the 4 core clearances (OFA hip, elbow, heart, and yearly eye) on their breeding dogs. Even on the dogs that they claim to have some of the clearances, none of these are verifiable with the info given. By doing such they are cutting corners that puppy buyers pay the price for down the road. I would recommend considering getting a puppy from a breeder who actively is working to improve the breeds health, not one who is breeding dogs for profit. Which would appear the case if they do not provide up to date clearances. Clearances are easily verified on http://www.offa.org if you type in the parents registered names, and from there you should be able to trace clearances for generations. 

Wishing you a Happy Thanksgiving! And sorry if I seem to be the bearer of bad news, but as someone who has a golden who suffers daily for her breeders careless decisions (to not do OFA clearances) I do not wish anyone else to ever face such pain. My girl has bad hips and a bad heart, and her quality of life has been greatly diminished by it. As a 6 year old she was only expected to live a year or two more at most (do to a hereditary heart condition), and I can't begin to describe that heartbreak.


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

Do you have the registered names of Jade & Diamond? Have you received a copy of the purchase contract? If a health guarantee is offered, does it require the purchase of NuVet vitamins?

As for the food, definitely stay on the breeder's food. With so many changes going on with the pup's life, you don't want to stress the GI system with yet another change.


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

Yes the health is my first priority. One of my current dog's this past year was diagnosed with a PDA heart murmur. I had to get her heart Surgery to place an occlusion in her heart which was extremely expensive. I got her from a rescue group, and since then I made a decision that my next dog would be from a reputable breeder. I am not certain of the parents registered names. Is this something that I should ask them for?


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

Yes, I just read the contract and it does state that the puppy must be kept of the Nu supplement or guarantee is void. Is that good or bad?


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

Definitely ask for the registered names (understand you have a short window to verify things w/ puppy pick up on Monday). With the names or registration numbers you can look on offa.org to verify that elbows and hips (both accomplished after 24 mos) were completed & that the sire/dam passed, and for that matter you'll want to see generations of clearances. A wrinkle thrown in is if these dogs are "first generation Americans" in that case you'll want to verify that the dogs in the pedigree had the appropriate pedigree for the country they reside in. In addition, the sire/dam should also have a heart clearance performed by a cardiologist and had annual eye exams performed by an ophthalmologist. IMO, a reputable breeder would have already gone over these clearances with you.

As for NuVet, take a search on the forum. The supplement provides a kickback to whoever sells it. So in the case of your breeder, they make money off you buying it & if you fail to purchase it, they can walk free and clear from their health guarantee.


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

Yikes! I don't like the sound of that. The NuVet. That's horrible. I didn't know that.


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

I know that this is Diamond's first litter


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

Do you know how old she is?


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

I would definitely ask for the registration #s and or registered names so you can verify clearances. Sapphire's photo is labeled Roma of Golden Duck. Roma of Golden Duck's AKC # is SR82519602 and she was born 27 Jun 13 as such too young for OFA hip & elbow clearances. If this is the same dog the breeder is claiming to have "excellent" hips and elbows, then those ratings are from a preliminary report and not actual clearance. While I realize the dam of your litter is Diamond, I would be making sure you're fact checking the health clearances.


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

If Diamond doesn't have all her clearances, should I be majorly concerned?


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

I don't know how old Diamond is


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

If health is a concern and you want to support a reputable breeder, then absolutely it matters (you need to verify complete clearances for both Jade & Diamond). If they're fudging on Sapphire, what else is being fudged? Also did you see in the contract that you won't get AKC papers until proof of spay/neuter, with spay/neuter required between 12-18 mos. Doesn't make any sense to do that (delay the papers).

I would also request the registration #s & names of the sire/dam along with the litter registration # with the AKC be listed on the contract--this will protect you if there are issues registering your pup.


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

Thank you so much for all your help! I greatly appreciate it! I will email them the questions and hopefully they will get back to me soon.


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

I have already given them a 300 deposit. And I have already fallen in love with her. I don't know if I could walk away at this point even if Diamond doesn't have all her clearances.


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

You have to do what's right for your family, but at least you're more educated about it going into the contract signing and hopefully now understand what risk you're signing up for and what risk the breeder willingly took in breeding your pup. You stated health was important, yet this breeder is not doing annual eyes and there is no verification of cardiologist cleared heart and legitimate ofa hips/elbow clearances. I would most certainly request the registered names/#s of the sire & dam be added to the contract along with the litter registration and I would request the akc paperwork upfront. 

Also, I imagine for what you'll be paying you could get a pup that comes from a long line of complete clearances and parents that have actual championship titles where the breeder is demonstrating they're breeding to the standard vice relying on dogs further back in the pedigree or citing non-competitive "international" championships.

Regardless of what you decide, your golden pup will be welcomed here and you'll find the puppy section to be a great resource.


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## Eclipse (Apr 21, 2014)

Is the deposit refundable?

If Diamond's the dog you have your heart set on, that's perfectly fine. But if you do decide you want to go with a different breeder that has better health clearances, this little story might help.

The breeder I got my dog from told me a story about someone who wanted to pick out their own puppy. They selected one and held it. She took it, put it back with its litter mates and told them to pick it out again. They couldn't do it because their puppy looked and acted just like the rest of the litter (she does put color on their neck, so she could get the right puppy back for them). 

The point my breeder was trying to make was that the person would be happy with any of the puppies they selected. I probably would have been happy with any dog I got from my litter. Also, I probably would have been just as happy with a puppy from a different breeder entirely. It wouldn't be the same dog, but it would still have embodied the characteristics of a Golden Retriever that I love, and I would have loved that puppy just as much. 

It all boils down to which choice you would rather make. 

My first dog came from a backyard breeder. She had cancer twice and now has hip problems which aren't bothering her too much with proper management. She's ten now and happily lazes about the house. My family didn't pick a reputable breeder because we didn't know any better back then. She's had a couple issues but she's still a pretty good dog.

My second dog is from a reputable breeder, and I wouldn't give either one up for anything.


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## Moonbridge (Aug 26, 2014)

Hi,

I'm glad others had the courage to speak up about their concerns regarding the breeder having the appropriate clearances, as I didn't since you have already commited to the puppy and are so close to picking her up. I know I wouldn't be able to walk away.

My first golden was from a "hobby" breeder who presented us with all kinds of false documents. I was so trusting I never investigated them. She didn't last long in the breeding world as far as I know. BUT, my golden lived a very long, happy and healthy life of 14 years!! She had food allergies but other than that she was a very healthy dog.

I wish you all the best. When I started looking for our next dog, the research felt overwhelming and the sheer number of Golden breeders was mind boggling.
Our puppy will hopefully be born in April/May 2015.

Your puppy will be a wonderful bundle of joy!!!


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## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

Welcome to the forum!


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

Thanks so much! Thanks for your replies and helpful information! I didn't actually pick Gemma. I wanted a female and I was 3rd in line. Diamond had 4 girls but the 4th one died bc diamond accidentally laid on her :-( Gemma was the last female so that's how I got her. I am a little disappointed in myself for not researching this breeder better. I still want Gemma but I'm definitely feeling a bit nervous about the situation.


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

Also, the deposit is non-refundable :-(


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## kellyguy (Mar 5, 2014)

Welcome to the forum. Don't beat yourself up over what you didn't know at the time.
The wonderful members of this forum aren't trying to make you feel bad about your choice of puppy, they want to make sure that you "may" be walking into a situation where the breeder is taking advantage of you.
My first golden was from a wonderful hobby breeder and my second one was from a pet store. I was extremely lucky that both were actually from very good breedings but I didn't know that until I researched their pedigrees many years later.
I don't even think clearances were done or tracked that long ago.
My last golden was a rescue and of course I have no idea of his pedigree or lack there of. I can only offer that I was and still am heartbroken to have lost him to hemangio without warning in March of this year.
I became aware of this forum as a result of his loss, and it opened my eyes to the importance of health clearances and "puppy mills". In fact, if you try using "google" to find a golden puppy the chances are very high you will be bombarded with exactly the kinds of breeders that you want to avoid, the ones that are cutting corners to crank out "puppies for profit". 
If you read through some of the postings on "choosing a breeder" you will learn some of the major pains and expenses that quality breeders invest towards bettering the breed, and why they are so important.
Best wishes and looking forward to your continuing participation on the forum.


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

I emailed the breeder this morning to get the registered names....my sweet Lulu (Cavalier/Japanese Chin) that I got from a rescue group is the one who had to have heart surgery. She was a puppy mill rescue. Here in Ohio, there are a TON of puppy mills (mostly Amish) and so you really do have to be careful. I am pretty positive they knew of her heart condition, and failed to tell me when I adopted her. I adore her, and so I spent the money to take her to the cardiologist and eventually got her the surgery she needed but it was definitely not something I ever want to have to go through again, if I can help it.


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## Tennyson (Mar 26, 2011)

gemmagirl said:


> Thanks so much! Thanks for your replies and helpful information! I didn't actually pick Gemma. I wanted a female and I was 3rd in line. Diamond had 4 girls but the 4th one died bc diamond accidentally laid on her :-( Gemma was the last female so that's how I got her. I am a little disappointed in myself for not researching this breeder better. I still want Gemma but I'm definitely feeling a bit nervous about the situation.


Don't doubt yourself. My bridge boy Mick was from a backyard breeder and he lived til 13.5 yrs. with no health problems associated with poor breeding practices. If I were to have read this forum before I went to get him I would have been a nervous wreck as well.
Look at the positives. You're gonna have a beautiful new pup that will need you and love you. You in turn will give her the best life possible.
That's a win win!
Stay positive and look forward to your beautiful little girl.


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

Thanks so much! I appreciate your kind words. I still haven't heard back from the breeders regarding the registered names of jade and diamond. Feeling nervous.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

gemmagirl said:


> Thanks so much! I appreciate your kind words. I still haven't heard back from the breeders regarding the registered names of jade and diamond. Feeling nervous.


I don't blame you, I would be nervous too. 
Did she specifically state or did you sign something that said the deposit was non-refundable before you gave it? I could not find any wording on the website that said it. You may have grounds to request it back, even if it was non-refundable if they can not provide proof of the certification claims on Jade or the more general good hips and elbows (by the way elbows are graded normal not good). My guess is Diamonds are actually preliminary reports. If this is the case with Jade, they have misrepresented their dogs and you should be entilited to your money back.

You asked about the risk and of course some dogs from fully certified parents can have issues just a some dogs of unknown health history can be healthy to the end. The difference is the amount of risk and potentially severity. Here are some statistics on Elbow Displasia to give you some more information from Orthopedic Foundation for Animals on the increased risk you may be facing.
Normal Elbows x Normal Elbows = 12.2% offspring affected with ED
Normal Elbows x Dysplastic Elbows = 26.1% - 31.3% offspring affected with ED
Dysplastic Elbows x Dysplastic Elbows = 41.5% offspring affected with ED

A note on prelims, they are not Certifications. First because the dog is too young. Final certification is with X-rays taken at or after 24 months. Second, prelims are reviewed by a single reviewer where as finals have to pass the scruteny of three evalutors. 

My thought is if the breeder cannot produce the registered names and numbers, do not visit. As hard as it is to think about not picking her up, if you go there it will be impossible to leave with out a puppy. Please if you can, seperate you desire for this puppy from your decision making process. This is a decision that hopefully impact your life for a decade. Give yourself space to make your best decision. And on a personal note from me I would hate to encourage this breeders bad breeding practices with my hard earned money if everything is not as it should be on the health testing front. 

Good luck, this is not an easy spot to be in and we will be glad to meet your puppy no matter what you choose.


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

I have a sick feeling in my gut. This may sound crazy but the thing that is actually bothering me the most is the NuVet. The health only being guaranteed if the pup is getting the supplement. It feels very manipulative to me. I WANT to pay a breeder whose only concern is quality and health.


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

But gosh I want her! She's such a beautiful girl!


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

gemmagirl said:


> I have a sick feeling in my gut. This may sound crazy but the thing that is actually bothering me the most is the NuVet. The health only being guaranteed if the pup is getting the supplement. It feels very manipulative to me. I WANT to pay a breeder whose only concern is quality and health.


Yes the NuVet being required for the guarantee is disturbing. I do know others who do believe in this product and from what I have read, it seems to be a decent supplement as are MANY others out there. The claims they make are mostly unproven and IMHO over the top. However, those that I know that use it do not tie it to their contract as a requirement. To do so seems to only be away to generate more income and if breeders are that thirsty for income, it always makes me wonder what corners they cut and ethics they sacrafice to turn a profit. IMHO I would say this breeder is mostly about the profit simply by design of thier program. Having one stud dog and breeding him repeatedly to every girl is a profit scheme not a quality scheme. There is no way one dog will be the best compliment to every girl you own.

I would be curious to know if thier guarantee also employs the feature of having to return the existing puppy to obtain the replacement. To me this is the same as no guarantee because how many people will return a beloved pet? Actually I am happier with no guaranty from a responsible breeder with generations of certifications than a replacement puppy guarantee form a non-reputable breeder. My though is if they gave me one puppy with a health issue, I would not want a second with that same risk. 

Have they supplied you the registered names or numbers yet?


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## Eowyn (Aug 29, 2013)

It is SO hard! It really is, those little puppies always manage to steal your heart and run away with them so quickly! You just have to do what is best for your family.


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

I think if jade and diamond do not have clearances, I will ask for a refund. I really am praying that they do. I really wish they would get back to me.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

gemmagirl said:


> But gosh I want her! She's such a beautiful girl!


Yes she is. You just have to make your best decision going in if cute puppy now trumps good breeding practices and health testing.

I would recommend pet insurance if you go with this pup to protect yourself from the thousands of dollars of expense associated with surgical correction of the common Golden issue like hip/elbow Dysplasia and heart issues.

Good luck either way.


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

Thank you. Ughhhh. No, i will not support a dishonest breeder. I am so anxious to get the registered names. Still no reply. After lulu's surgery, I really vowed to myself that my next dog would come from a breederwhere I would feel comfortable with the health/background. It really is my biggest priority. Yes, there's no reason to require the NuVet unless they are looking for more profit. She's $2900. I am beginning to feel very foolish.


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

Here's a picture of lulu with my daughter lol


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

gemmagirl said:


> She's $2900. I am beginning to feel very foolish.


First, please do not feel foolish. 
How are you supposed to know what you don't know?
This is what really bothers me with less than reputable breeders. THEY are or should be the expert and as such buyers rely on their 'supperior' knowledge. Reputable breeders educate, are proud to point to the strength in their program and provide proof. I cannot tell you how many people my breeder educated on how to do the research when she knows she will not have a puppy for them. Bad breeders take advantsge of the lack of knowledge and make false statements or present missing/poor certification as good certifications. Yes, you can find resources to educate yourself, and you have a good start with this forum.

Second, $2900 is grossly more than this puppy is worth. By a lot. To give you an idea, my breeder in Arizona which is an expensive state, (my understanding is the Midwest is more economical) bred two actual champions, not champion lines or International/UKC with generations of full clearances behind them. The puppies were $2000.00. This breeder is charging more than a reputable breeder.

For this puppy persoanlly I would think if the clearances are in place (though eyes and one heart would be missing) I would find a reasonable price to be $800 to maybe $1000 if they price for color.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

gemmagirl said:


> Here's a picture of lulu with my daughter lol


I love this! Lulu looks like she is in heaven.: Your daughter is lovely.


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## Eowyn (Aug 29, 2013)

gemmagirl said:


> She's $2900. I am beginning to feel very foolish.


There is no reason to feel foolish, the vast majority of people on this board used to support back yard breeders and puppy mills at one point in time!

$2,900 is OUTRAGIOUS! The top breeders in the country don't charge that! You shouldn't pay more than $1,000-$1,400 TOP in Ohio for a top bred puppy (with very few exceptions). Their dogs have no accomplishments whatsoever, injury prone conformation, and lack basic clearances! Ok fine, Sapphire is an International Championship, which in all honesty if a piece of paper that means virtually nothing! It's one thing for rare breeds that have nothing else, but for an AKC recognized breed it is pathetic!


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## Eowyn (Aug 29, 2013)

LJack said:


> For this puppy persoanlly I would think if the clearances are in place (though eyes and one heart would be missing) I would find a reasonable price to be $800 to maybe $1000 if they price for color.


No, not in Ohio it wouldn't. I know reputable breeders who sell puppies for $1,000-$1,200 around here. That is with generations of full clearances and AKC Champion (and often Grand Champion and sometimes performance titles too) parents. AKC golden puppies from breeders who don't do clearances (usually you families who bred the family pet) sell for $350-$500. Very often even your $500 dollar newspaper puppies have parents with at least hip and elbow clearances around here!


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Eowyn said:


> No, not in Ohio it wouldn't. I know reputable breeders who sell puppies for $1,000-$1,200 around here. That is with generations of full clearances and AKC Champion (and often Grand Champion and sometimes performance titles too) parents. AKC golden puppies from breeders who don't do clearances (usually you families who bred the family pet) sell for $350-$500. Very often even your $500 dollar newspaper puppies have parents with at least hip and elbow clearances around!


See, I am used to Cailforinia and Arizona pricing. I agree if that is the case, the range for this puppy should be even lower.


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

I think they are pricing the pups high due to the English Cream classification. I read somewhere that they live longer than the American Golden


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## Eowyn (Aug 29, 2013)

gemmagirl said:


> I think they are pricing the pups high due to the English Cream classification. I read somewhere that they live longer than the American Golden


Most of the whole "English Cream" thing is a huge marketing scam.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Eowyn said:


> Ok fine, Sapphire is an International Championship, which in all honesty if a piece of paper that means virtually nothing! It's one thing for rare breeds that have nothing else, but for an AKC recognized breed it is pathetic!


To fill in some blanks here for the OP. In the US when we use CH or Champion the common understanding is that it is an AKC Champion. In the US is also the UKC which are normally designated as UKC CH or U-CH. Both the AKC and UKC also offer Grand Championships which are the higher level after the Championship. In the states, we have several organizations (IABCA, ICE) that offer the National and International Ch designations. 
AKC is tough to earn and takes months to years to do. The number of dog that need to be defeated is substantial. UKC does require other dog must be best to earn their title but, they do not necessarily have to be Goldens, though most shows have a good Golden turn out. The difficulty to obtain this title varies greatly. Just 4 years ago in Az it was easy to get. Now more and more AKC folks are training thier dogs at these shows so the quality of dogs have risen substantially. Several less competitive breeders have stopped going and now just do the international shows. International sounds impressive but, not really. This title is not even really competitive. Each dog receives a rating and those ratings not placement determines if you get a score toward your Championship. It is not uncommon for nearly every dog to entered to earn a title in a single weekend. Which is why some refer to this as the bought or automatic title. I like all of these shows, because I love to show but, I know the difference. Puppy buyers don't so breeders can say International Champion and buyers think "wow, this dog probably competed in shows all over the world" instead of what it really is 'get a title in one weekend'.

Just to demonstrate with a story. My girl Jinx just turned 3. She earned her International Championship in 1 day at 2 years of age. She earned her UKC championship in 2 days at 12 months old. It took 2.5 years to earn her AKC Championship and that was all owner handled. I truely believe a handler could have finished her fast but that still would have taken at least two months of showing every weekend normally Friday-Monday when she was about 2 and ready to win.


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

Do you know of any reputable breeders in Ohio?


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

I agree. I was definitely impressed with the international champion thing. And to look at the sire Jade, he us a really impressive dog.


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## Eowyn (Aug 29, 2013)

gemmagirl said:


> I think they are pricing the pups high due to the English Cream classification. I read somewhere that they live longer than the American Golden


Goldens in the European countries _somewhat tend_ to be lighter, and many unscrupulous, money hungry breeders over here made up the whole "English Cream" junk. They are the same breed, there are two slightly different standards but they are the same breed. Most of data saying they are healthier/live longer is massively screwed. They took two studies, one done here one done overseas and tried to compare them. The problem was the studies were done to find out different info, had different control groups and different interest groups. It would basically be the same thing as if I took a study on breast cancer in the United States, compared it to a study of prostrate cancer in the UK, and came to the conclusion that males in the US had less cancer than males in the UK. You tell me how that makes sense. There is data that may suggest golden in Europe may indeed live longer, but there is no evidence that these changes will hold once the dog is in America. There are no considerations being taken for environmental changes in Europe verses here, or the fact that many (if not most) people do not spay or neuter their dogs in Europe (which likely adds 1-2 years to a dogs lifespan on average). As long as we are screwing studies, we might as well take that info and say American Goldens have more longevity, because we are killing our dogs 1-2 years early with early spaying and neutering, yet European dogs only live an average of 1 year longer without them killing their dogs early! So our dogs should live a year longer if we let them. You can "prove" anything you want to prove when you start comparing studies that were done differently to each other.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

gemmagirl said:


> I think they are pricing the pups high due to the English Cream classification. I read somewhere that they live longer than the American Golden


Yeah, you probably read that on an Eglish Cream website. 
They will also spout that they have less Cancer or are Cancer free.

Who would want that right? Except, it is a big bunch of Bologna. 

Here is blog by one of our members and works with both styles. It is a good read. American vs. English vs. Golden Retriever | Ramblings of a Dog Person


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

Thanks everyone! Still no word from the breeders. What should I tell them?


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

Have the breeders corresponded relatively quick by email before? Is it unusual for there to be a delay? Also, it was Thanksgiving weekend, any chance they're busy (on top of having a litter of pups underfoot)? Also, could you just call?

As others have stated, $2900 IMO is ridiculous, you already know neither dog has annual eye exams as the breeder has never mentioned them. I am so curious as to the pedigrees of these dogs that's driving a $2.9K price. Perhaps they're real English champions which would be a difficult title to obtain. However, I have serious doubts based on Sapphire's background/lack of clearances & the fact that no top notch breeder overseas is going to entrust their best pups to an unknown breeder in the US who is not actively involved in any dog sports & thus is unable to honestly evaluate the dogs they're breeding. Never mind the fact that Jade just happens to be the best match for all of their girls and he conveniently lives in the same household.

But again, this is your decision to make. Sorry to have taken your first, excited celebratory post about getting a golden and have it come down to this.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

gemmagirl said:


> Thanks everyone! Still no word from the breeders. What should I tell them?


That is tough, have you called them?

If it were me, I would call and let them know that in preparation for picking up my puppy that I need the names and registration numbers and that I will need copies of the parents health test before visiting and completing the transaction.

If they balked, I would let them know they can provide proof of the health claims that lead me to make a deposit or that can return my deposit.

That is simply what I would do. Not saying I am right just letting you know what I would do in your shoes. I would not step foot in their home if they could not give me proof of their claims.

Now, in all honesty, if I were you, after learning more about the breed and reputable breeders, even with the partial clearances, I would not feel comfortable paying $2900 for a puppy when I could get more from a breeder charging half. I would walk away from $300 happily when in the long run I can still save over a $1000 and get better health certifications/history and accomplishments.


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

Thank you for your help!!! They told me last week no Sunday pick up, which makes me assume that they may be very religious. So, in respect of that we are coming out of Thanskgiving, I will wait a bit longer. In the past they have gotten back to me within a few hours. I think maybe I should just make up an excuse that I cant get her. I don't want to come out and call them out for what I have learned.


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

And is it really a bad thing to have only one male dog? Is that a really big red flag?


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

Here is another breeder that is selling english cream for $2500
Top quality Golden Retriever puppies
Also in Ohio....I don't think the price is all that uncommon....they are definitely selling them for these prices for the coloring...this breeder looks much better than the one I chose however


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## Eowyn (Aug 29, 2013)

gemmagirl said:


> Here is another breeder that is selling english cream for $2500
> Top quality Golden Retriever puppies
> Also in Ohio....I don't think the price is all that uncommon....they are definitely selling them for these prices for the coloring...this breeder looks much better than the one I chose however


Oh it isn't for breeders using the whole "English Cream Scam". I was giving prices for the reputable breeders who actively show AKC that I know. There are always exceptions (there are reputable breeders in Ohio who charge more than the prices listed, they just aren't the norm), and there are always people over charging.


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

I am feeling very conflicted. I feel bad for the puppy, who I have already named. It's so unfair to her. On the other hand, I agree with everyone. I want the health info. I agree that they should have gone over this with me. I think they are misguiding people and primarily looking for ways to profit and take advantage of people like me. I don't want to support a breeder who is clearly cutting corners.


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

What would you do personally? Keep my word and take her regardless or walk away?


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## Eowyn (Aug 29, 2013)

gemmagirl said:


> And is it really a bad thing to have only one male dog? Is that a really big red flag?


Yes and no. How many males a breeder does or doesn't have isn't the problem, the problem is when the breeder takes a "one size fits all" approach when picking stud dogs. Breeders who only use their own males are not picking studs that better their girl and complement her pedigree. Just because two dogs are both of breeding quality, doesn't make them a good match. Example, lets say I have a girl of decent lineage and quality that I want to breed. Lets say she has a nicely put together front end, a nice top line, and a nice head, but her rear angles are lacking. She has a good temperament, but is a on the timid side (still of breeding quality, but could definitely be improved). Lets theorize that I also have a male of decent breeding quality. He has an impeccable front assembly, headpiece, movement and coat. But his rear is also not as strong and he tends to be a bit more timid than ideal. The breeder a couple hours away has also has a nice breeding male. This male is a lot more outgoing, also has a nicely assembled front end, and much better rear angles. And we might as well theorize that he doesn't have as nice a head piece (just so I'm not making it sound like he is perfect, as no dog is perfect). The temptation would be to use my own male, despite that fact that they wouldn't improve each other and would likely produce puppies of much less quality than themselves. I KNOW that the puppies will probably have bad rear angles and be overly timid. I would save money (since I wouldn't have to pay a $1,000-$2,000 stud fee) and it would be much more convenient. A reputable breeder is going to use the stud she doesn't own, as he would be a better match and more likely to improve the breed. A breeder breeding for profit wouldn't care, and would use there own stud anyways to save a buck. The problem wasn't how many studs that breeder had, it was whether or not she would be willing to make the best breeding choices available to her or not.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

gemmagirl said:


> Here is another breeder that is selling english cream for $2500
> Top quality Golden Retriever puppies
> Also in Ohio....I don't think the price is all that uncommon....they are definitely selling them for these prices for the coloring...this breeder looks much better than the one I chose however


Yep, you will find many breeders charging atleast 1000 more simply for color. Is color your biggest requirement?

If you keep searching for English Cream goldens you will find people with that as their sole goal. I prefer a breeder who is breeding for health, temperment, and structure. Color is my last criteria. Sure I have a preference but, I would rather have everything else first. 

As far as this breeder are they better, I think maybe so. But, they still don't meet the requirements that define a reputable breeder in the US Golden Retriever Club of America - The GRCA Club

The dad looks to be a direct import. There are certainly great dogs/breeders in Europe. There are also commercial breeders (people sometimes call them mills) who are in the business of cranking out puppies raising them up a bit, getting a junior title on them getting clearances (in some countries certifications can be done super young, like 4 months old not 2 years like in the US) and then sell them to the 'white' golden Greeders in the US for a lot of money. I think this may be the case because I have never seen this kennel in the pedigrees of top European dogs although my expertise is American lines.

So, I am suspicious of the hip and elbows. If they were done under two that is not good for the U.S. Under 18 months I would not trust them at all. I know US dogs who have good prelims only to fail at the age of two. 

The dad Orthopedic Foundation for Animals has only a verifiable hip with offa. That means either they did not do his elbows which would be unlikely or he failed the elbow and they did not authorize his abnormal status to show. His heart was done by a practitioner, it should be a cardiologist, add to that, that in Europe they do not check hearts very often would be concerning to me. His eye certification is out of date. 

The mom is the same on eyes and heart. No verifiable hips and elbows. Orthopedic Foundation for Animals

For comparison this is my girl Tilt's mom Orthopedic Foundation for Animals. That is what full certifications look like and for several generations back.


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## Eowyn (Aug 29, 2013)

gemmagirl said:


> I am feeling very conflicted. I feel bad for the puppy, who I have already named. It's so unfair to her. On the other hand, I agree with everyone. I want the health info. I agree that they should have gone over this with me. I think they are misguiding people and primarily looking for ways to profit and take advantage of people like me. I don't want to support a breeder who is clearly cutting corners.


No, it isn't unfair to her. She doesn't know you exist, she doesn't know you are debating taking her home or not. She will get a home. It is unfair to her parents though, to support a breeder who isn't looking out for their best interests. It is unfair to her littermates (or possibly even her) that they (the puppies) may end up living in pain their entire lives and possibly even dying early because of breeders irresponsibility.


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## Eowyn (Aug 29, 2013)

gemmagirl said:


> What would you do personally? Keep my word and take her regardless or walk away?


I would walk considering I was presented with information that appears at this point in time to not be true. I would probably let them keep the deposit for the sake of my own reputation and because I had given my word.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

gemmagirl said:


> What would you do personally? Keep my word and take her regardless or walk away?


You know my opinion is walk away. But, that is easy for me to say. No one can make this decision for you. My goal is to provide you with fact, inforamation and a few opinions that help you make your best decision. At the end of the day that is all we can ask is to have made the best decision on what is in front of us.


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

Something to think about as well is temperament, a reputable breeder knows their pups and is going to be able to take that assessment and match it to the best family vice allowing their pups to go to the first person putting money down. Were you matched simply because she was the last female available?

I will say I do have hope that you'll get the names and the clearances will be complete.


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

The breeder said she would be a pretty calm and laid back girl. That's exactly what I would want.


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

But yes, we were matched just because I was 3rd in line and she was the 3rd female pup and I had requested a girl


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

I'm praying that the dam and sire both have their clearances. Maybe they will and I'll have worrying for no reason.


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

*treasure goldens in ohio*

Hello! Wondering if anyone has heard of this breeder?


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## Goldens&Friesians (May 31, 2014)

I haven't heard of them, but I found their website. I would be very hesitant to go with a breeder who stresses color (English creme in this case). Also, the registered names of the dogs are not given on the website so you can't look them up on OFA to see if they really are certified. They also don't mention anything about OFA or CERF eye clearances, which should be done annually on dogs they are breeding. Also don't know the ages of the dogs-no dogs under 2 years old should be bred as they cannot obtain their permanent OFA hip and elbow clearances until then. I personally see a lot of red flags with this breeder.


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

Thank you. I'm getting very concerned as well. I have a deposit and should be picking up my girl Mon.


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## CharlieBear80 (Oct 13, 2013)

No personal experience but based on the website, assuming I was looking at the correct one, I would not consider a puppy from there. Ever.


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## Goldens&Friesians (May 31, 2014)

If you are looking for breeders in Ohio, my girl April's sire (Rugby)was from Gangway Goldens in Ohio. Although, I got April from another breeder here in IL who used Rugby as a stud, so I have no personal experience with them. I have heard good things about them and they appear to be reputable breeders. I can tell you that April looks a LOT like her daddy, Rugby, and has a super laid-back cuddle-bug personality (think 55lb lap dog)! Unfortunately, I have heard that Rugby has died this past year.  April has energy outdoors (loves hiking, frisbee, going on runs, and treeing squirrels), but is a completely well-mannered lady indoors. I had entertained thoughts of showing her (she is show quality), but she got an infection in her uterus at 2 years old and had to be spayed. However, before that happened she had already obtained her OFA hip, elbow, eye, and heart clearances. She excels in obedience competition and obtained her first obedience title (CD) in 3 shows scoring 195 (out of 200) points at all 3 shows! I know that Gangway also uses their dogs for therapy and search & rescue work-can't do that stuff without great temperaments! I payed 1,000 for April, which is actually kind of cheap for show or pet quality from reputable breeders. I would expect to pay anywhere from 1,000 to 1,500 for a pet quality pup from a reputable breeder. Anyway, Gangway's website is Home. Also, most reputable breeders have a waiting list a mile long and it isn't uncommon for you to have to wait several months or even a year or two for a puppy. Most reputable breeders will only breed litters when they are looking for a show puppy for themselves or when they have a long enough waiting list to make it worth it, so they usually only have 1-2 litters a year.


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## Harleysmum (Aug 19, 2014)

*Treasure Goldens*



gemmagirl said:


> Hello! Wondering if anyone has heard of this breeder?


Don't you already have a thread running on this subject? Just wondering why you are posting again.


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## Eclipse (Apr 21, 2014)

Goldens&Friesians said:


> If you are looking for breeders in Ohio, my girl April's sire (Rugby)was from Gangway Goldens in Ohio. Although, I got April from another breeder here in IL who used Rugby as a stud, so I have no personal experience with them. I have heard good things about them and they appear to be reputable breeders. I can tell you that April looks a LOT like her daddy, Rugby, and has a super laid-back cuddle-bug personality (think 55lb lap dog)! Unfortunately, I have heard that Rugby has died this past year.  April has energy outdoors (loves hiking, frisbee, going on runs, and treeing squirrels), but is a completely well-mannered lady indoors. I had entertained thoughts of showing her (she is show quality), but she got an infection in her uterus at 2 years old and had to be spayed. However, before that happened she had already obtained her OFA hip, elbow, eye, and heart clearances. She excels in obedience competition and obtained her first obedience title (CD) in 3 shows scoring 195 (out of 200) points at all 3 shows! I know that Gangway also uses their dogs for therapy and search & rescue work-can't do that stuff without great temperaments! I payed 1,000 for April, which is actually kind of cheap for show or pet quality from reputable breeders. I would expect to pay anywhere from 1,000 to 1,500 for a pet quality pup from a reputable breeder. Anyway, Gangway's website is Home. Also, most reputable breeders have a waiting list a mile long and it isn't uncommon for you to have to wait several months or even a year or two for a puppy. Most reputable breeders will only breed litters when they are looking for a show puppy for themselves or when they have a long enough waiting list to make it worth it, so they usually only have 1-2 litters a year.


Goldens&Fresians: We have half-siblings! I have a Rugby daughter also. =)

I got my girl from Gangway this January. She turned a year old this month, and I'm glad that I chose this breeder. She helped me over the phone a couple times with problems I was having after getting my puppy. 

She has a litter due in December. The mother of this litter is also my dog's mom. Melody (the mom) is a registered therapy dog, and the breeder takes her dogs on hikes often. 

Beckie (the breeder) said her summer litter had a lot of people on the wait list, enough for two litters, so there might be a wait list for this litter as well. 

She will let you come check out her kennel and dogs, as well as ask for health clearances and any other questions you may have. She also lets you come see the puppies whenever you want. I visited them at two and four weeks of age, but she said one man literally came over every day to see his puppy in a previous litter.

Her puppies are $1500, and I think my puppy was worth the money.


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

Harleysmum said:


> Don't you already have a thread running on this subject? Just wondering why you are posting again.


I am posting here to see if anyone has any personal experience with this particular breeder. I was wondering if anyone might have one of their pups. I originally posted in the forum for introducing new members. Is this not allowed?


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

Goldens&Friesians said:


> If you are looking for breeders in Ohio, my girl April's sire (Rugby)was from Gangway Goldens in Ohio. Although, I got April from another breeder here in IL who used Rugby as a stud, so I have no personal experience with them. I have heard good things about them and they appear to be reputable breeders. I can tell you that April looks a LOT like her daddy, Rugby, and has a super laid-back cuddle-bug personality (think 55lb lap dog)! Unfortunately, I have heard that Rugby has died this past year.  April has energy outdoors (loves hiking, frisbee, going on runs, and treeing squirrels), but is a completely well-mannered lady indoors. I had entertained thoughts of showing her (she is show quality), but she got an infection in her uterus at 2 years old and had to be spayed. However, before that happened she had already obtained her OFA hip, elbow, eye, and heart clearances. She excels in obedience competition and obtained her first obedience title (CD) in 3 shows scoring 195 (out of 200) points at all 3 shows! I know that Gangway also uses their dogs for therapy and search & rescue work-can't do that stuff without great temperaments! I payed 1,000 for April, which is actually kind of cheap for show or pet quality from reputable breeders. I would expect to pay anywhere from 1,000 to 1,500 for a pet quality pup from a reputable breeder. Anyway, Gangway's website is Home. Also, most reputable breeders have a waiting list a mile long and it isn't uncommon for you to have to wait several months or even a year or two for a puppy. Most reputable breeders will only breed litters when they are looking for a show puppy for themselves or when they have a long enough waiting list to make it worth it, so they usually only have 1-2 litters a year.


I just looked this breeder up-they are very close to me, maybe a half hour. Interesting!!! Thanks so much for the info. In the past few days, I have learned so much about "reputable breeders" and it has been pretty hard to find them. I also do prefer to go with a breeder in Ohio, so this is great! Thank you!!


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

Nah, no problem with you mentioning it in the New Members section but you might want to have one of the mods combine both threads so it won't make it confusing for people.


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

Just wondering how you learned about Treasure Goldens? The GRCA National will be held in Cincinnati Oct 15--you do have active golden clubs in Ohio w/ numerous reputable breeders (follows GRCA code of ethics, generations of complete clearances, proving their dogs (conformation or field or agility or obedience...). And, they won't be charging $2900 for this.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

cgriffin said:


> Nah, no problem with you mentioning it in the New Members section but you might want to have one of the mods combine both threads so it won't make it confusing for people.


Gemmagirl, I sent you a PM. 
I can merge the threads for you.


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

OK, thank you! I am new to this, LOL! In my original post, I was introducing myself and my new puppy. Now, a few days later, there's a possibility that I might not be getting her......Its interesting to me that no one has any personal experience with this breeder also.


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

SheetsSM said:


> Just wondering how you learned about Treasure Goldens? The GRCA National will be held in Cincinnati Oct 15--you do have active golden clubs in Ohio w/ numerous reputable breeders (follows GRCA code of ethics, generations of complete clearances, proving their dogs (conformation or field or agility or obedience...). And, they won't be charging $2900 for this.


I first started with searching GR puppies in Ohio. I was brought to this website:
Puppies for Sale in Ohio | Buckeye Puppies

I quickly realized that this website is selling or brokering for puppy mills. But, as I was there, and browsing through all the breeds, I came across "English Cream Golden Retriever" which was classified separately from Golden Retriever. (Interesting) 

This probably sounds seriously insane, but I have always had a thing for Great Pyrenees. When I was a little girl, I used to watch this show, "Belle and Sebastian". Ever since then, I have always really loved that breed. When I saw the pics of the English Cream puppies, I was really in awe of how much they almost resembled the GP, but smaller. So, being attracted to the coloring, I then searched GR Breeders in Oh, English Cream....I found their website and I thought their male Jade was amazing. Thats how it all started. 

My background: I grew up with large dogs, Mastiffs and we even had a Fila Brassilero. When I bought my first house at 24 I wanted pets but my job at the time had me gone way too much to have a dog, so I adopted 3 cats from a local shelter. When I was 27, I had a new job and a new house and I realized that the time was right to get a dog. Petfinder was available online and I found the cutest terrier at our local pound. I will never forget the first time I stepped in that place. It was sooo terrible. The dog i wanted was covered in his own poo and pee. I took him outside and he must have peed for 5 minutes straight. The place was like hell on earth. At this point I became extremely involved in rescue. Then I had 2 kids. In the meantime, I had acquired 2 shih tzu mixes. One of them bit my son in the face and he has to be taken to the ER. We re-homed the shih tzu days later and my heart was so broken. The other Shih Tzu was so lonely and heartbroken that he lost his best friend. So, we adopted a puppymill rescue Lulu, from a group called Changing Hearts rescue in OH. Last year she was diagnosed with a PDA Heart murmur and we had to get her surgery to have corrected, which ended up costing me about 5K and was not only financially draining but emotionally as well. I don't want to go through that again.. 

I have been missing having a big dog for so long. A dog that I can take long walks with. I wanted my next dog to be big, great with kids, excellent disposition, a dog that I could train well and possibly even show, a dog for my kids to play and roughhouse with, and that they can grow up with. And most importantly, from a breeder who I trusted and whose main concern/goal, was to raise healthy puppies. 

See, I am probably going to face a lot of backlash from my rescue friends when I get my "purebred pup". But for me, and for our family, I just really feel that getting a purebred puppy is the right move for us at this point in time. 

I have never owned a Golden, but I am so excited to have my "soul dog", which is what I am really hoping for.


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

Anyone else remember Belle and Sebastian?

https://www.google.com/search?q=bel...57Cbelle_and_sebastian_jp-show*jpg%2F;333;250


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Threads have been merged so all the replies and info are in one thread now.


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## CharlieBear80 (Oct 13, 2013)

gemmagirl said:


> OK, thank you! I am new to this, LOL! In my original post, I was introducing myself and my new puppy. Now, a few days later, there's a possibility that I might not be getting her......Its interesting to me that no one has any personal experience with this breeder also.


It's not all that surprising. I'd venture to guess that the vast majority of the members here either have a rescue or a dog from a reputable breeder. Crappy breeders are, unfortunately, a dime a dozen, so it's not unusual that nobody here would have personal experience with the more subpar ones.


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

I see, I guess, I am just surprised about everything. I thought they were "Reputable".


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

*Gangway*



Eclipse said:


> Goldens&Fresians: We have half-siblings! I have a Rugby daughter also. =)
> 
> I got my girl from Gangway this January. She turned a year old this month, and I'm glad that I chose this breeder. She helped me over the phone a couple times with problems I was having after getting my puppy.
> 
> ...


I contacted her, and she got back to me quickly! Thanks so much for this suggestion!!!


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

*Thank you!!!*



Goldens&Friesians said:


> If you are looking for breeders in Ohio, my girl April's sire (Rugby)was from Gangway Goldens in Ohio. Although, I got April from another breeder here in IL who used Rugby as a stud, so I have no personal experience with them. I have heard good things about them and they appear to be reputable breeders. I can tell you that April looks a LOT like her daddy, Rugby, and has a super laid-back cuddle-bug personality (think 55lb lap dog)! Unfortunately, I have heard that Rugby has died this past year.  April has energy outdoors (loves hiking, frisbee, going on runs, and treeing squirrels), but is a completely well-mannered lady indoors. I had entertained thoughts of showing her (she is show quality), but she got an infection in her uterus at 2 years old and had to be spayed. However, before that happened she had already obtained her OFA hip, elbow, eye, and heart clearances. She excels in obedience competition and obtained her first obedience title (CD) in 3 shows scoring 195 (out of 200) points at all 3 shows! I know that Gangway also uses their dogs for therapy and search & rescue work-can't do that stuff without great temperaments! I payed 1,000 for April, which is actually kind of cheap for show or pet quality from reputable breeders. I would expect to pay anywhere from 1,000 to 1,500 for a pet quality pup from a reputable breeder. Anyway, Gangway's website is Home. Also, most reputable breeders have a waiting list a mile long and it isn't uncommon for you to have to wait several months or even a year or two for a puppy. Most reputable breeders will only breed litters when they are looking for a show puppy for themselves or when they have a long enough waiting list to make it worth it, so they usually only have 1-2 litters a year.


THANK YOU SO MUCH!!! I have contacted Beckie....I really feel confident with your's and Eclipse's advice!!! Thank you


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## Eclipse (Apr 21, 2014)

That's awesome to hear! I think you'll be happy with one of her puppies. =)


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

gemmagirl said:


> I see, I guess, I am just surprised about everything. I thought they were "Reputable".


That is the hard part. It is usually very easy to spot the bottom quality breeders. When you get into looking for a reputable breeder that gets much more difficult as there are breeders that will masquerade as reputable. They know enough to make statements that an uneducated buyer will believe. They know to talk about health testing but not actually do it, rely on prelims or only post the tests thier dog did pass and omit those they failed. They will hide things through ambiguity like dogs that are too young and sometimes even father/daughter or sibling matings.

Finding a reputable breeder is not easy, once you find them, they will need to interview you and you them which may limit choices further. When you focus on one trait like colors you lift even further while increasing the number of unreputable/fad/profiteer breeders you have to sort through. 

The more knowledge you have the easier this gets. As you have seen the forum members who enjoy the chalenge of research can 'vet' a breeder's program in short order by using online research tools, you can too. You simply have to learn how. The forum is always happy to double check if you post the breeder or even better dog names/numbers.


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## CharlieBear80 (Oct 13, 2013)

gemmagirl said:


> I see, I guess, I am just surprised about everything. I thought they were "Reputable".


I get it. I got my first 2 dogs, both German Shepherds, in my early 20s from what I thought was a reputable breeder as well. Her dogs were pretty & well cared for, she had a large piece of property out in the country, and she charged a lot for her dogs, so I assumed that she was reputable. I had no idea what I was doing. Got one puppy from her that I loved so much that I decided to get another 6 months later. Both were beautiful dogs but way larger than breed standard, and the male had serious anxiety/aggression issues. It wasn't until years later when one of them passed away and I was looking for a puppy that I learned that that breeder was not reputable at all. (I should have been clued in on one of the few occasions throughout the lives of my dogs when I called her about a health or temperament issue and she claimed to have never had any problems with any of her dogs and offered no help or guidance). Lesson learned. 

I guess my point is that many of us have been there, so don't be too hard on yourself about it. 

Also, if you're in Ohio and still looking for a breeder, you could try Shilo, Gideon, Anthem, Cu Curran, or Huntcrest. I can't personally vouch for any of these breeders and doing due diligence for any puppy you might consider is always necessary, but these are some that are regarded as reputable.


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

I definitely want an ohio breeder. I also would prefer the breeder to be closer to me in the Cleveland area. Dayton and Cincinnati are more than 4 hours from me. Anthem is an hour away and Beckie is about 40 minutes with gangway. Anthem looks amazing. I'm checking the others now too. Thanks for the list! I really like comparing them!


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## CharlieBear80 (Oct 13, 2013)

Not necessarily an unreasonable request, I'd just point out that plenty of people drive 4 hours or more to get a pup from a good breeder. Some even fly half way or more across the country to do so!


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

I know they do! There's an amazing Border Collie breeder by me that has people drive from all over the place 20 hours round trip to get puppies from her. I just like the idea of being close for some reason. Not because of convenience for me.


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

SheetsSM, I just sent you a PM


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## Eowyn (Aug 29, 2013)

There is a show (the crown classic cluster show) at the IX center the weekend of the 13th. I am hoping to be there Saturday myself, plus tons of other good golden breeders will be there. You would be able to meet breeders, some of which may have puppies on the ground.


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

Eowyn said:


> There is a show (the crown classic cluster show) at the IX center the weekend of the 13th. I am hoping to be there Saturday myself, plus tons of other good golden breeders will be there. You would be able to meet breeders, some of which may have puppies on the ground.


Thanks! That's awesome! I will have to chec
check it out! it


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

Eowyn said:


> There is a show (the crown classic cluster show) at the IX center the weekend of the 13th. I am hoping to be there Saturday myself, plus tons of other good golden breeders will be there. You would be able to meet breeders, some of which may have puppies on the ground.


That's a great idea--take your time, see what catches your eye, do some research, build a reputation with the breeder & then wait for the pup. Though I do understand, you've already been waiting to have a large(er) pup back in the family.


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## Jennifer1 (Mar 31, 2012)

Don't feel bad or foolish. No one starts out knowing what makes a responsible breeder, everyone has to learn somewhere.
My first girl was from a backyard breeder. They weren't bad people and they loved their dogs, but I do think they used the puppies to supplement their retirement income. I found this site when my girl was diagnosed with cancer (12yrs old, I don't blame her breeding). I found out what makes a reputable breeder from reading these threads. I think most people would think that health guarantees or certified healthy is what people refer to as clearances, until you actually learn what you are looking for.

I think your first mistake is using the websites to search for dogs. Reputable breeders don't use or need to advertise. 
I found my new girl by going to the local area golden retriever clubs and going through their breeder referal listings. You still have to do your homework to make sure the hips and elbows are on offa and the heart is cleared by a cardiologist and the eyes are checked by an opthamologist, but breeders that are part of the breed club are more likely to go the extra mile to make sure their dogs are the dogs that should be bred.
FWIW, I drove 8 hrs to pick up my girl because I couldn't find a decent breeder in my own state!
Good luck


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## Jennifer1 (Mar 31, 2012)

With just a quick search I found 3 GR clubs in Ohio. I'm not sure which, or any of these are close to you.
I would start here and contact them for help looking for a puppy
www.grcco.org
THE CUYAHOGA VALLEY GOLDEN RETRIEVER CLUB
Golden Retriever Club


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## buckeyegoldenmom (Oct 5, 2008)

Hi! You may have already found a reputable breeder in Ohio, but just in case.... I am also in Ohio and on several lists with reputable breeders of goldens. People to check with:

Lakesyde goldens.. Julie Corral. She has bred one of her girls recently.

Harborview Goldens.. Jennifer Craig. Actually in PA by Lake Erie.

TopHat Goldens.. Denise Near Dayton OH... bred one of her females recently

Kodiak Goldens... Dee Darst. Also just bred one of her females.

Shilo Goldens... Jennifer Krawsczyn 

Also if you are on FB follow "goldenretrieverlitter listings" only breeders with all clearances can post.

And no matter what... always ask to see clearances and validate accuracy.

Good luck. I am waiting too. Hoping for a good puppy before summer!


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

Thanks! Also gangway in ravenna! Melody just had 9 puppies today!


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## Eclipse (Apr 21, 2014)

gemmagirl said:


> Thanks! Also gangway in ravenna! Melody just had 9 puppies today!


That's exciting! I think that's the same number Melody had in her last litter. If you decide to go with Gangway(or another breeder), I highly recommend visiting the puppies when they're little. It's a lot of fun playing with a swarm of month old puppies. =)


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## Eowyn (Aug 29, 2013)

Sending you a pm, may know of a great breeder/litter for you.


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## Doublebugs (Dec 8, 2014)

I would love some direction in getting a pup as well in regards to someone who has puppies available. I just lost my Gracie girl last month to cancer at only 9 years old and our house hasn't been the same. I miss having her wonderful Golden spirit around our family, she was so good with all three of our children. Anyone who can help would be great!


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## CharlieBear80 (Oct 13, 2013)

I'm so sorry for your loss. 

Read back through this thread, there were some great suggestions for breeders in your area. As for availability, you just have to make contact and see who has what and when they might be planning future litters. Most reputable breeders are happy to recommend another breeder if they don't have any litters planned soon.


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## Kora2014 (Sep 15, 2014)

Moonbridge said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm glad others had the courage to speak up about their concerns regarding the breeder having the appropriate clearances, as I didn't since you have already commited to the puppy and are so close to picking her up. I know I wouldn't be able to walk away.
> 
> ...


Where in Ontario do you live? We have a great breeder in Southern Ontario.


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## Eclipse (Apr 21, 2014)

Doublebugs said:


> I would love some direction in getting a pup as well in regards to someone who has puppies available. I just lost my Gracie girl last month to cancer at only 9 years old and our house hasn't been the same. I miss having her wonderful Golden spirit around our family, she was so good with all three of our children. Anyone who can help would be great!


You might want to consider making a new thread for this question, since it may get more responses that way.

I would check out Gangway. I got my dog from them, and I like them a lot. They also have a litter right now, though they're newborns at the moment. Home

Other breeders to look at, as mentioned by buckeyegoldenmom:



buckeyegoldenmom said:


> Hi! You may have already found a reputable breeder in Ohio, but just in case.... I am also in Ohio and on several lists with reputable breeders of goldens. People to check with:
> 
> Lakesyde goldens.. Julie Corral. She has bred one of her girls recently.
> 
> ...


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## buckeyegoldenmom (Oct 5, 2008)

All the breeders I listed above, have either just bred one of their girls or are waiting for her to come in season to breed. Call them, talk to them, fill out a puppy application, and get on a list or two or three.

Sometimes a breeding doesn't take, or sometimes there aren't enough puppies.

Be patient and best of luck!


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## gemmagirl (Nov 27, 2014)

Doublebugs said:


> I would love some direction in getting a pup as well in regards to someone who has puppies available. I just lost my Gracie girl last month to cancer at only 9 years old and our house hasn't been the same. I miss having her wonderful Golden spirit around our family, she was so good with all three of our children. Anyone who can help would be great!


Hi! Check out gangway and gideon. I have spoken with both and really like both. Also both have puppies that were born last week!


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