# Cross Training Obedience and Conformation



## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

Don’t worry about it. The dogs know the difference. I have shown Eevee in conformation and obedience in the same day and she didn’t miss a beat.

They cue off of your body language, tone of voice, what collar they are wearing, etc.


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## JerseyChris (10 mo ago)

That is kind of what I was hoping you would say. I just was afraid to mess him up being a total novice but will continue on..


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

JerseyChris said:


> So I have started obedience training a few weeks ago and just starting to learn the basics. My main concern is to not screw up the dog for Conformation as that has been the primary focus for him since he was a pup.. He is a rock solid conformation dog that both my wife and daughter show and I have even started working with him in our weekly handling class. He is pretty much always on point in the ring and I am afraid to mess him up learning obedience since it seems a lot of things are opposite. Now I might just need some reassurance here as I am as new and green as they come on obedience. Here are the few things I have seen that are vastly different.
> 
> Obedience we want him always looking up for the next direction
> Conformation we want him out a bit in front looking ahead.
> ...


So..... 

I was waffling about how to answer this based on the fact that my HIT obedience dawg likes looking up at me in the conformation ring and it has probably cost him with some judges. One of the last shows I did with him, I was pretty MAD at him because he was so focused on me and refused to look away and was prancing like a fool. The madder I was the higher he pranced while trying to APPEASE. I apologized to the judge because I knew he looked awful. 

If you do both sports - odds are you will either have a forging dog in obedience or a "heeling fool" in conformation. Generally it's a forging dog in obedience because that's just a more natural behavior for the dogs. And most of the time people really instill conf behaviors (forging with head/face forward etc) first before beginning obedience.

Other than set behaviors that the dogs just learn to offer all the time... There's very different body positions from conf to obed so the dog really shouldn't be confused about which sport he's doing. So like Maegan said, should not be too much problem switching gears even in the same show day.

I was going to post pictures of my actual dogs, but they are fuzzy dim light pictures taken with my cell phone 3 minutes before nightfall, sooooo very bad stick man and dog drawings offered instead. With a spelling typo that's going to bother me but I'm going to just leave it.


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## JerseyChris (10 mo ago)

I am at my desk in tears here.. That photo is awesome.. Thank you !!! Why is the dogs tongue out in conformation but not Obedience ? LOL One thing I have learned in a short amount of time is that obedience is a lot more difficult than it looks so mad respect to those that do it. I so far have a few hours with him working in handling class and I would be very comfortable taking him in in the ring with me. Even after a few weeks training obedience it would be a mess if we tried to compete right now.. lol


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

JerseyChris said:


> My main concern is to not screw up the dog for Conformation as that has been the primary focus for him since he was a pup.. He is a rock solid conformation dog that both my wife and daughter show and I have even started working with him in our weekly handling class. He is pretty much always on point in the ring and I am afraid to mess him up learning obedience since it seems a lot of things are opposite.


So you are worried that if you teach him something, he might forget how to do nothing? 😂🤣😅


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

I love that picture! I know people who've done both without an issue. The dog is smart enough to know the difference. I've also heard people say that they want their conformation dog to be "stupid" and not teach obedience. Works fine for some of them to teach obedience later, some can never get the dog to do what they want for obedience.


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## Goldens&Friesians (May 31, 2014)

I have only shown in AKC obedience and never shown conformation, but I did do handling and obedience in 4-H. My golden always knew the difference based on what collar and lead we used. She always won county for obedience and was always somewhere in the middle for handling-she hated it though, so may have done better if she liked it, lol! (Or maybe I was just a bad handler!) She LOVED obedience! I was several years too old for 4-H by the time I got April so only did obedience with her.


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## JerseyChris (10 mo ago)

SRW said:


> So you are worried that if you teach him something, he might forget how to do nothing? 😂🤣😅


He is great with new stuff so I think more of this is in my head personally. He seems to be picking up Obedience pretty well, it is me that needs the most training.. lol


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## JerseyChris (10 mo ago)

DevWind said:


> I love that picture! I know people who've done both without an issue. The dog is smart enough to know the difference. I've also heard people say that they want their conformation dog to be "stupid" and not teach obedience. Works fine for some of them to teach obedience later, some can never get the dog to do what they want for obedience.


Conformation is pretty easy compared to well.... anything else actually. I can put him in the ring with anyone and he will just do his thing. All ours dogs are complete robots in the ring. Obedience is just very new to me so it definitely is a big challenge with a pretty good learning curve.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

Piggybacking off of Kate’s drawing:



















I am holding the leash entirely too tight in the OB one, but I think you can see that the body language is entirely different. It might look like Eevee isn’t watching in the OB one, but she is. I didn’t teach the heads up style, but she’s still watching me for cues.

I use an entirely different collar and leash set up for obedience than conformation.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

JerseyChris said:


> Conformation is pretty easy compared to well.... anything else actually. I can put him in the ring with anyone and he will just do his thing. All ours dogs are complete robots in the ring. Obedience is just very new to me so it definitely is a big challenge with a pretty good learning curve.


Conformation _*can *_be easy. Lol not every dog is easy to show. But I agree that’s it’s easy on the dogs. I think the pressure skews far to the handler in conformation. Put one foot in the wrong spot and you can destroy an otherwise beautiful topline.

In obedience, I would say the pressure is a little more evenly distributed. You are working as a team and it’s not so subjective. You put in the work, you qualify (most of the time). It’s that simple. 😊 If you don’t qualify, you know exactly what you need to work on.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

My Slater 
And just for kicks and rounding out the trifecta, here's Slater about two days before the conformation picture:


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

ArkansasGold said:


> Put one foot in the wrong spot and you can destroy an otherwise beautiful topline.


Uugh, I hate when that happens


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## Sankari (12 mo ago)

SRW said:


> Uugh, I hate when that happens


You don't look for a beautiful top line when your golden is participating in a field trial...? 😆


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Sankari said:


> You don't look for a beautiful top line when your golden is participating in a field trial...? 😆


I DO!!!! HAHAHAHA


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## Birdi (Nov 15, 2021)

Not the same sport, but a similar potential issue that hasn't (so far) been an actual issue. I do nosework/scentwork with my dog & have started training for rally (although we probably won't compete). 

For nosework, he's in a harness, is in front of me, and is allowed to mildly pull. In fact, his start line behavior is me grabbing the handle on his harness & when he's ready he leans into it. If I release him before that lean he's probably going to go say hello to the judges before searching for odor. 

He's obviously on a flat collar for rally & I haven't had an issue with him pulling or breaking position. For that matter, I haven't had any issues with him pulling outside of nosework regardless of what he's wearing.

And while my mixed breed dog is my whole life, I have to admit that he can't hold a candle to most goldens when it comes to intelligence and trainability. So I think you'll be fine.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

Sankari said:


> You don't look for a beautiful top line when your golden is participating in a field trial...? 😆


Being at the line in the 4th series watching my dog return with the last bird is substantially more satisfying.


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## JerseyChris (10 mo ago)

SRW said:


> Being at the line in the 4th series watching my dog return with the last bird is substantially more satisfying.


totally agree.. one day I will try this..


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## JerseyChris (10 mo ago)

K9-Design said:


> My Slater
> And just for kicks and rounding out the trifecta, here's Slater about two days before the conformation picture:


That is just awesome.. Now that is a well rounded Dog !!!


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## JerseyChris (10 mo ago)

ArkansasGold said:


> Conformation _*can *_be easy. Lol not every dog is easy to show. But I agree that’s it’s easy on the dogs. I think the pressure skews far to the handler in conformation. Put one foot in the wrong spot and you can destroy an otherwise beautiful topline.
> 
> In obedience, I would say the pressure is a little more evenly distributed. You are working as a team and it’s not so subjective. You put in the work, you qualify (most of the time). It’s that simple. 😊 If you don’t qualify, you know exactly what you need to work on.


I certainly didn't mean to downplay conformation, it is just all I know as well as family. I cant even begin to explain how many dog shows I have sat ringside for over 13 years. My daughter who you will meet is engulfed in dog shows. When we aren't at shows every weekend we are at handling class, when not in class she makes me watch you tube videos of Goldens at Westminster, she is then stacking Bentley in the living room every night. My family's dedication gave me the foundation to get started doing it. Now Obedience, that one I am on my own... LOL


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

I think humans struggle more with the differences between sports than the dogs do. 😅


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

JerseyChris said:


> I am at my desk in tears here.. That photo is awesome.. Thank you !!! Why is the dogs tongue out in conformation but not Obedience ? LOL One thing I have learned in a short amount of time is that obedience is a lot more difficult than it looks so mad respect to those that do it. I so far have a few hours with him working in handling class and I would be very comfortable taking him in in the ring with me. Even after a few weeks training obedience it would be a mess if we tried to compete right now.. lol


I'm going to pretend I do anything with purpose and say the conf dog was sticking his tongue out because conf is outside in summer and it can be disgustingly hot out.  

More seriously though both conformation and obedience can be tough sports for a beginner if the dog doesn't have it all quite naturally. And even the dogs that have it all quite naturally - the owners are very experienced and hardworking when it comes to prepping the dogs right from the start.

Some if not many conformation dogs are very well trained.

If you are just starting out in obedience and have been living the conformation thing all along because of your family.... I get why the strange new world of comp obedience seems more complicated than conformation.


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## JerseyChris (10 mo ago)

Megora said:


> If you are just starting out in obedience and have been living the conformation thing all along because of your family.... I get why the strange new world of comp obedience seems more complicated than conformation.


It definitely brings a whole new respect to the people that do this. It is surely harder than I thought it would be but will continue on with it and see how it goes..


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## GrandmaToGoldens (Jul 2, 2019)

I’m training for both. My Brittany is now UD titled and also both a Conformation Champion and a Rally Champion, which makes her a Dual Champion under ANKC rules, but I didn’t put the work I should have into her stacking and never got it quite right. I need to do better with Eva.
Even at four months old, Eva has no difficulty distinguishing between heeling with automatic sits and gaiting, stacking and free stacking. I use a verbal cue, “pose”, for her stacking and free stacking but I forgot about it this morning and she had no problems knowing what I wanted from my posture and footwork. The photos show screenshots from a couple of training videos... her first free stack this morning and heeling off-leash in the field (taken with my iPhone held in my left hand.) Neither is perfect but I’m aiming for foundations at this stage.
My three top pieces of advice for Obedience training are:
Don’t overtrain. Thirty seconds of happy, fun training will help you progress. An hour of drudgery can do irreparable damage.
If you or your dog can do one thing better or understand one thing better each day than the previous day, then you’re making progress. It doesn’t have to be a big thing. It could be as small as a quicker sit or your better footwork on a turn. Small improvements add up.
Video your training and review your videos, paying particular attention to your teamwork and communication.

And just for fun, I’ve added a photo from this morning’s walk. She’s swimming for the first time!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Blurry photos posted of he who made me smile tonight.  So blurry that the website apparently thinks they are 18+ rated.  For the collar focused types, the obedience pics he had no collar or leash on. 

I brought him out to get him prepped for some big show coming up (forget what it is....  ), and I needed the instructor to help me get his focus OFF of me. He literally refused to take his eyes off me the moment I took him out on the floor and went around the room the first time. Realized he's been doing obedience only since July (needed surgery to remove wart thingy on his foot and had staples in his foot since the end of July, he never limped or was unsound, but I didn't dare show him with staples!). Once he remembered what his job was, he was spot on perfect.

He apparently is eligible for me to enter him in the obedience classic down in FL. I'm not doing it because FL is too far away to drive one week before Christmas! But maybe some day at a higher level we'll get another invite and go for it.


Conf set up at line









Obedience set up at line










Obedience moving -


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Conf moving


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