# Spaniel Hunt Test Questions



## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

You will have a grand time!!
Be sure that she is comfortable with busting into and/or through the woods to retrieve a bird if it goes there. In the tests we have run, they expect the dog to go find the bird, regardless of where it went down. None of this falling in the same spot in nice open fields stuff


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

She's a very determined girl to get her birds! Barb, what do you think of her patterns? Do you find that goldens don't take a lot of work to get them to quarter the field? I watched a lot of spaniels and I really thought she did far better than most of them?


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Her patterns look great.
Yes, I do think that most Goldens quarter naturally. We never taught Tito, either. It just took a couple of times out in the field for him to figure out that it's the best way to hunt. 
That said, he uses the wind a lot (a big problem in tracking, but that's a story for another day) and if the wind is blowing directly at us or directly behind us then he doesn't quarter nearly as much. Then I will give him the double whistle direction change command a few times until he gets in the groove.


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

Do you feel that doing spaniel tests or training is detrimental to hunt tests? I've heard that it teaches the dog to blow off handling but I don't know for sure. I've watched Katniss quarter naturally when we are training in deep cover on marks. I think she would be good at this but I don't want to do it until we are done with Master/Finished if this hurt her on that training...???...


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I think it depends.
It doesn't have to, unless you let it. I did let it interfere with Tito's water blinds, as I let him just get out wherever he wanted to and hunt up the bird. But I could have enforced the retriever discipline, just chose not to.
Allowing a dog to blow off handling teaches a dog to blow off handling. Spaniel tests don't.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

I'm highly encourage not to get into the spaniel/upland tests until I'm though with retriever tests. 
When I go to CKC tests I barely train quarting so she won't get too loose on blind. The sit to flush in the Candian test for us have always been dead birds out of wingers, much like a walkup.
Like everyone else, Winter just seemed to know how to quarter so not much practice is needed. She has never flushed a bird off the ground, steady to flush could be interesting and would need practice. I would imagine that prey drive would be pretty strong and I would not want to try it for the first time without her collar. I do want to give the upland/Spaniel tests a try in the future.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Our training for spaniel tests has been very little. Last year we trained one day with live quail to flush. In June of this year we trained one day with live quail to flush. So Saturday was only our 3rd experience flushing live chukar. I did one day of hunt dead (spaniel blinds) with frozen pigeons. 

Lucy is not good on retriever blinds. Sometimes she's great on sitting to the whistle and casting well, but often she's good on one thing but not the other. We are definitely not ready to run retriever senior hunt tests. So after reviewing how spaniel blinds are run using whistle sits, casts and wind direction to find the bird, I decided to use a different method that I hoped wouldn't mess up what little progress we made in retriever blinds, but would still be a legal spaniel blind. I decided to not give any direction at all. No whistles, no voice other than "Find it". That was all. I let her hunt up her bird each time. She was very quick and has a wonderful nose. I'm not sure if I did any damage to what little retriever blind skills she has. But she did pass that both days. They did tell me that for master, I would have to cast her to the area of the bird. So I'm glad I ran senior.

Saturday the first day was sunny and 60 degrees, a very nice Alaska day. I made many mistakes. Normally when I arrive at a retriever hunt test, I spend some time in an area near by working through all our obedience skills. I have her go through everything from sits, downs, stays, heeling patterns, heads up, watch, etc. Then onto whistle sits and whistle recalls. I try to make sure I have a connection. On Saturday I did not do any of that. My mistake. Miss Lucy was psyched when we arrived. She could smell the birds. There were only 8 dogs running all 3 levels. It was a small group. When it was our turn, I fronted Lucy and sent her on an over. She was very good at quartering as all goldens seem to be. Her first flush was perfect, and the shooters got the bird. She retrieved no problem to hand. I sent her again. This is where my biggest mistake came in. You need to stay up on your dog in the field. The shooters will stay at your shoulders. If the dog is too far ahead, the shooters will be too far away to hit the bird and the bird will get away. Which is what happened. The bird flew off into the trees. At that point what should have happened was, I call No Bird and whistle Lucy back. I waited too long to call her and whistle, I didn't realize that she wouldn't come back. Instead she continued to hunt up birds and would NOT come back. No amount of whistling got her back. Thankfully she did not flush anymore birds. After several minutes I finally got her back. A senior dog should be under far more control than that in order to pass. What should have happened was, I should have called No Bird and whistled her back. She should have returned. She had met the 2 flushes and 1 retrieve to hand requirement. So had she come back, we would have passed. My huge mistake. But with so few dogs that day, we were able to continue the test. The hunt dead was no problem and I described above how I ran her. Then of course the water retrieve was last. Lucy was just fine. Senior dogs have to be steady at the water and you have to hold a shotgun and follow the bird with the shotgun. Not all the spaniels passed. One had been running NAHRA retriever hunt tests and was used to the birds being a lot farther out. So the poor spaniel was way out in the lake looking for the bird that she expected to be farther away. 

The second day was raining hard and 50 degrees. I arrived and made sure to run through all our obedience skills. I felt like she was making a better connection. But Lucy appeared to be starting to go into heat. She wasn't bleeding but the boys thought she was wonderful. So since it's a nosework test, I asked to run last so she wouldn't distract any boys. We had 10 dogs on Sunday in all 3 levels combined. This time I had a MUCH better mental connection with Lucy and I also stayed up on her in the field. The first bird she flushed went over our heads. Of course Lucy gave a huge leap and chase after the bird. I yelled No Bird immediately and blew my recall whistle pattern. It was amazing! She spun on a dime and came to my side. Wow was I shocked. Well, I'll take it. So I sent her again. She flushed again no problem, but this time she was not letting that bird get away. She got it by the tail as it flew away. Now that is ok in senior level, but she can't do that in master. At this point though she had no retrieved a shot bird. So they pulled out a shot bird, threw it, and had Lucy retrieve it. No problem. Again no problem on hunt dead or water retrieve. So we did pass on Sunday. One out of two wasn't bad for our first time out.

I definitely will run the spaniel tests again. We only have 2 double headers a year. But it will take a great deal of work to get Lucy to sit on the flush or to run blind (retriever or spaniel). I think I would run her on spaniel blinds just like I run her on retriever blinds now that I know more about how I should be doing them. As for flushing messing her up for retriever stuff, I don't think so. But I'm not sure. Next month I've volunteered to plant birds for the pointer tests. Which means my friend I'll be planting birds with and I will be allowed to hunt up all the loose birds after the test is over. Which will be excellent practice for us. 

So different skills. A good way to make that mental connection with your dog. Marks at a retriever hunt test don't require a mental connection like flushing does. I hope that makes sense. Retriever blinds require total control of the handler over the dog. But flushing tests require the dog and the handler to know where each are all the time and what the plan is and work together.

I'm so glad I pulled Lucy from the dog show Saturday and Sunday. Having fun chasing birds was so much better.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Thanks for the write up, sounds like you had a great time.
Tito failed a Master Upland test for a very similar reason. He was steady to wing and shot, and the gunners missed the bird. He was sitting in the field looking at me, poised to go...the judges told me to call him in and continue hunting. So what do I say? "Tito...". He figured that was his release and he took off for the next county. You could just hear his brain working, "don't worry guys, you missed that bird but I know RIGHT where he went down, I'll just flush him for you again...". Um yep, he was a good 600 yards out before he finally decided to come back. I was scared that I was going to lose him!!
Needless to say, that was NOT a pass. 
As far as catching the bird as it takes off, that DOES pass in Master level, if the bird has not cleared the cover to the point that a shot would be safe. Tito traps birds often. Several judges have told me that if no shot can be made safely, the bird belongs to the dog. As soon as it clears the cover enough for a shot, however, his hairy butt had better instantly hit the ground. It's called a "sucker bird". 
Lots of fun, isn't it? We're going to run some in September, just because it's fun.


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## Poppy2 (Jun 23, 2015)

OMG, 600 yds? And you couldn't call your dog back?
So how did you pass a master spaniel test?
Did you never see another missed bird again?
Not a dog I would want to hunt over.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Poppy,
Lucy was gone gone on Saturday, she was not going to come back at all, I actually had to get her by the collar and put a leash on her. She was that hyped up! Sunday I was able to call her back without any issues. Some days you connect with your dog some days you don't. Bill Hillmann doesn't suggest ever sending a dog on their name for just such a reason. Their name should be for recall, not sending. I could see Lucy going very far, not 600 yards, but easily 100 yards and not stopping or even hesitating. ALL THE BIRDS ARE MINE!

Barb,
There is a group forming at the specialty in Ohio to go pheasant hunting near the show. Are you interested?


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## Poppy2 (Jun 23, 2015)

I actually hunt upland in real life.
I would never take a dog afield that didn't understand a recall.
Why?
I don't want to pick him up out of a ditch after getting hit by a car.

Two birds in hand or a ribbon just isn't worth it.
Food for thought for your next test.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Poppy,
Do you hunt with an e-collar? We cannot use e-collars in a test. When I am not at a test, my dogs have e-collars on. I want to make sure there is no chance of not having a good recall. Good for you if you have perfect recall when hunting WITHOUT an e-collar. I guess I have much less than perfect dogs than yours. Please fill us in on your perfect recall method while hunting without an e-collar, I'm always looking for a better way. And yes I hunt upland with my dogs. Although tests use chukars and we don't have them up here, we have ptarmigan and grouse.


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## Poppy2 (Jun 23, 2015)

Alaska7133 said:


> Poppy,
> Do you hunt with an e-collar? We cannot use e-collars in a test. When I am not at a test, my dogs have e-collars on. I want to make sure there is no chance of not having a good recall. Good for you if you have perfect recall when hunting WITHOUT an e-collar. I guess I have much less than perfect dogs than yours. Please fill us in on your perfect recall method while hunting without an e-collar, I'm always looking for a better way. And yes I hunt upland with my dogs. Although tests use chukars and we don't have them up here, we have ptarmigan and grouse.


Lol,
Never said I hunt without a e collar.

You've come along way since your first post in this thread.


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

great photo, Stacey! I'm glad you had a good time and its always nice to learn something new every time you are out...Lord knows, I've made some major mistakes at a test before.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Depends on when, we are entered in events pretty much every day. What day(s) did you have in mind?



Alaska7133 said:


> Poppy,
> Lucy was gone gone on Saturday, she was not going to come back at all, I actually had to get her by the collar and put a leash on her. She was that hyped up! Sunday I was able to call her back without any issues. Some days you connect with your dog some days you don't. Bill Hillmann doesn't suggest ever sending a dog on their name for just such a reason. Their name should be for recall, not sending. I could see Lucy going very far, not 600 yards, but easily 100 yards and not stopping or even hesitating. ALL THE BIRDS ARE MINE!
> 
> Barb,
> There is a group forming at the specialty in Ohio to go pheasant hunting near the show. Are you interested?


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

IMHO

Much can be learned by talking to a serious spaniel man.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Alaska7133 said:


> Poppy,
> Lucy was gone gone on Saturday, she was not going to come back at all, I actually had to get her by the collar and put a leash on her. She was that hyped up! Sunday I was able to call her back without any issues. Some days you connect with your dog some days you don't. *Bill Hillmann doesn't suggest ever sending a dog on their name for just such a reason. Their name should be for recall, not sending.* I could see Lucy going very far, not 600 yards, but easily 100 yards and not stopping or even hesitating. ALL THE BIRDS ARE MINE!
> 
> Barb,
> There is a group forming at the specialty in Ohio to go pheasant hunting near the show. Are you interested?


That is interesting. I have always sent the dog on it's name. For come there is only one command - come. Or whistle come. I use the name at the door for going inside and outside. Also to get in the car. They sit, and they each get in the kennel once they hear their name; otherwise it would be a fiasco with three dogs.


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