# Obedience Class



## Tagrenine (Aug 20, 2019)

I would not go to any class where the trainers recommended haltis


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## Pytheis (Mar 17, 2016)

Tagrenine said:


> I would not go to any class where the trainers recommended haltis


I’m not a fan of haltis at all personally but thought I would go into it with an open mind. What specifically do you dislike about them?


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## Tagrenine (Aug 20, 2019)

Pytheis said:


> I’m not a fan of haltis at all personally but thought I would go into it with an open mind. What specifically do you dislike about them?


I don’t like trainers who recommend them (over or instead of prongs) because they don’t really train the dog. Dogs self correct on a halti instead of the owner directing the training.
My other issue, which doesn’t seem to be the case here, is that some trainers rave about haltis as a non aversive training tool (compared to prongs) when they’re literally so much more aversive


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

That would be a nope from me.

The way I teach heel to my dogs s "choose to heel" and "do it to get it".

With choose to heel, you start walking with a super loose lead and keep walking and maneuvering until the dog checks in and presents the desired position/behavior - and he gets rewarded.

With do it to get it - which I prefer, you do not take 1 step without the dog in perfect position and behavior and you set goals for that dog to either get released to a reward on your person or sent away to get a reward you have been working around (toy or bag with treats inside).

Collars and leashes have their purpose to keep a dog under control, but I have trained with obedience trial champions (who got their OTCH's with non obedience breeds like malamutes) who would NOT train heeling the way you describe. 

What a miserable time for the dogs...


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## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

My two cents... No, I would not go back to this class. Both head halters (Haltis) and pinch collars can be extremely aversive (the Haltis especially so, especially if they are just slapped on without any kind of acclimation or reinforcement). There are MANY much better (more positive, more fair) ways to teach a dog to heel (and "heeling" would definitely NOT be on my list for the first thing I teach a dog in a beginner class. Loose leash walking, yes. "Heeling," no.). A head collar can be a an effective tool - with the right dog, under the right circumstances, and when introduced gradually and with positive associations. BUT, I see far more dogs who hate them with a passion than I do dogs who walk with them nicely and whose owners know how to use them safely. Otherwise, you have a dog who is so obsessed with getting the Halti off that they can't even focus on what you are trying to teach them. And if they try to lunge or bolt with one on, they can be seriously hurt, since their heads will wrench around as they hit the end of the leash.

In my opinion (as a trainer who always likes to use all possible "positive" training methods first), a pinch collar is one of those tools that should only be used in one of two situations: 1. with a large, out of control dog who is being handled by a physically challenged individual who is in danger of being hurt if they don't have control over the dog or 2. You have exhausted all the more positive ways of training loose leash walking without success and you just need to be able to walk your dog safely. However, there are many skilled trainers who will disagree with me, so, as always, you have to decide if it's a tool you are comfortable using. If you decide it is, then there is a right and a wrong way to go about it. I hope some of our members who are comfortable with the use of pinch collars will weigh in here - in your opinion is it reasonable to slap a pinch collar on a dog in a beginner class like this?? Before even _attempting _to teach leash manners in a more humane/positive way? What is the dog learning other than it's uncomfortable to pull on the leash?

There are MANY effective, positive ways to teach loose leash walking (even if you aren't a believer in the use of treat-based training). Google "the circle method" for one way, but there are others (the one Megora just posted would work for me!). There are also many ways to teach a formal heel that does not involve punishment. I love Susan Garrett's stuff. Also KikoPup videos and the Fenzi Dog Sports Academy online classes. All have techniques that are fair, humane, and effective and a far better choice than what your instructor is doing.

Some reading for you to consider re head halters:








Proper Use of Head Halters for Leash Training - Whole Dog Journal


Whole Dog Journal‘s mission is to provide dog guardians with in-depth information on dog food, training, behavior, health, and more.




www.whole-dog-journal.com












The Problem With Head Halters - suzanneclothier


Like any training equipment, halters must be used with care and with complete awareness of the possible effects on the dog physically, mentally & emotionally.



suzanneclothier.com




Episode 40: Using A Head Halter On A Dog, Why My Approach Is So Different (Note: This is a trainer I greatly admire who is a fan of head halters - it's one of the things I disagree with her about, but this video/blog will at least discuss how to correctly acclimate your dog to a head halter should you choose to use one).

I tried to find a balanced review on the use of pinch/prong collars without success. It's a pretty polarized training concept with people who think it's a humane and effective training tool at odds with those who consider their use abusive and physically dangerous to the dog. As with most things, the truth probably lies somewhere in between. Maybe one of our other members can find and link a good article on the pros and cons, proper fit and use, their effective use in _teaching _a dog, and when does use become "abuse", etc....


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## Pytheis (Mar 17, 2016)

My German shepherd was trained to heel and loose leash walk completely on a flat buckle collar and nothing else. He did it perfectly in any location or distraction I threw at him. From the day he came home, I heavily rewarded him any time he chose to get into heel position or check in with me on a walk. Any time there was tension on the leash, I would either stop moving completely or turn and go the opposite direction. I truly didn’t need any kind of training collar for him. I think that’s why it was so jarring to go to a class where all dogs were immediately put on haltis or other collars without being rewarded for appropriate behavior or given a clue about what to do. They were all confused and had no idea what was expected of them. It doesn’t seem like this is the way to teach them or build a good relationship with their dogs.


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## Coastal Pup (Jan 30, 2021)

i took a similar class with Beckett and by week 2 every dog had to have a martingale or prong. A majority of the class was walking in a huge group circle with the dogs heeling. I use that term loosely because the dogs didn’t know what they were supposed to do because all we could do is keep walking with them regardless of what they were doing. Treats were not encouraged, and since we were all going in circles, we couldn’t even try the stop/wait or reverse method. It was half of us trying to slow our dogs down, the other half dragging their dogs that weren’t walking because the next dog was coming up behind us. No time to stop and praise or stop and readjust, and after each 5 minute cycle, the dogs had NO idea what they did right or wrong in the last 5 minutes.
I hated the class from week 1, gave it the benefit of the doubt for week 2, and then weeks 3-6 I just went because I had paid for it already. I would never go back to a class like that again though


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## ceegee (Mar 26, 2015)

I'd run in the opposite direction. It sounds awful for the dogs and for the humans.

I use a method very similar to Megora's "choose to heel". It works well.


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## MintChip (Feb 26, 2021)

Pytheis said:


> I was observing a Manners 1 class from a local trainer. It was the first class of the set so the dogs that showed up were all, as you can imagine, completely out of control. Most dogs were on a flat collar but some were on harnesses. To teach heel, the trainer instructed the owners to start with their dog in a sit on the left side, walk to the center of the room, do an about turn, and go back to their original position. They were to walk purposefully, not to slow down or stop when their dog resisted. They were to keep a short, loose leash to prevent pulling. Afterwards, all dogs were put on a halti or prong and told to do the exercise again. All the dogs that were put on haltis spent the entire time thrashing around, scratching at their faces, and rubbing their heads on the ground to get the halti off. The owners were instructed to do the back and forth “heeling” two more times, then they moved on to teaching a sit. The homework for the class was to practice heeling in the same way at home and on walks. The expectation was that after practicing the way they did in class, the dog should be able to walk in a heel without pulling for 15 steps by the next class.
> 
> I wanted to get your opinions on if this is a class or trainer you would go back to, an appropriate way to teach heel (NOT loose leash walking), and if you feel it’s appropriate to immediately put all dogs on a training collar of some kind. What questions would you ask the trainer? Obviously the dogs had no idea what was being asked of them and were simply reacting to the negative feeling of the training collars. I’m curious to know how they eventually transition off of training collars if that’s the way they teach a heel.


I attended a class at a club and curious what the community says. The teacher in my class immediately recommended a gentle leader or prong (for the 'uncontrollable' dogs), no harnesses, and leather leashes. Mind you it was the first day of class.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

This is wild. I don’t know of any actual Dog People that use head collars (haltis, “gentle” leaders). I do know of many that use prong collars, but they are always conditioned first and never used on puppies.

It also completely blows my mind that people think head collars are not aversive. Bring completely transparent here, before I knew better, I completely ruined Rocket’s ability to walk nicely on a leash. He was out of control and I was at my wit’s end. We looked up reviews for the best training classes in Houston and enrolled in one.

After the first class, they recommended a Gentle Leader. Again, I didn’t know any better, so I tried it. He HATED it. He spent nearly the entire time trying to paw it off his face. If we finally made it outside, he would still pull and lunge and it would snap his head around like @pawsnpaca said. It was an overall horrible experience. Luckily he was not injured.

Conversely, Rocket loves his prong collar and I didn’t even have to counter condition it. He will do cute little spins and wag his tail when it comes out and will eagerly offer his head for me to put it on. You tell me which one is more aversive.

BUT I would never use it on a young dog that just doesn’t know any better.

I taught Eevee to walk nicely on a leash with nothing but a 4-ft slip lead. If you start them out the right way from day 1, they don’t develop the propensity to pull brainlessly. It’s so much easier than going back and retraining everything. Been there, done that.


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## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

ArkansasGold said:


> I don’t know of any actual Dog People that use head collars (haltis, “gentle” leaders).


Not a fan of them myself, but for the record, Susan Garrett, who is a very well known positive trainer, advocates for the use of head collars.





Like you, most dogs I know absolutely HATE the things, but as with most training tools, a lot depends on how they are introduced and used, and of course it depends on the dog itself (since we humans don’t get to decide what a dog find “aversive”).


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

Pytheis said:


> I was observing a Manners 1 class from a local trainer. It was the first class of the set so the dogs that showed up were all, as you can imagine, completely out of control.


Don't go back to this class, the "trainer" is ignorant.
First of all, you don't just start off with teaching heel to "completely out of control" dogs. Any trainer would know that.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

I do have a question, was this “heel” a real competition heel? Meaning the dog is in heel position as defined by the Obedience regs and only moves when the left leg of the handler moves? Or were they using “heel” for what is really just loose leash walking?


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## 3goldens2keep (Feb 13, 2019)

All of our Goldens have initially been trained using a pinch collar. 

With our first Golden our trainer taught, us on this first night of obedience class, exactly how to put the collar on the dog properly, and exactly how to use them to assist in training. By the end of that night our pup was heeling well, sitting, and following the down command, as were all the dogs in our class (4 Dobermans, 2 Scotties, 3 labs, and 2 Goldens). Five weeks later when the class ended, I was totally sold on the PROPER use of pinch collars for training!

I understand there are other ways to train, and I am not critical of those ways, because I have not been trained or used any of them. All of our Golden's hunt with us for birds and run-in Hunt Tests. As our training program progresses, the use of pinch collars transitions to the use of e collars for field training. This transition also requires that the dog is properly conditioned to the e collar and the trainers must be trained on the proper use of the e collar. When our pups are on a mark of a downed bird, they frequently run 100 - 150 yds. It is a comfort to know that I can always get our pup to recall on command (whistle), even if something like a stray deer or rabbit pulls the dog off of a retrieve. If needed the e collar will help turn the dog back for recall. 

Neither collars I mentioned should ever be used, unless the *trainer *has been trained by an experienced trainer on how to use these tools in training your retriever!


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## Pytheis (Mar 17, 2016)

ArkansasGold said:


> I do have a question, was this “heel” a real competition heel? Meaning the dog is in heel position as defined by the Obedience regs and only moves when the left leg of the handler moves? Or were they using “heel” for what is really just loose leash walking?


Competition style heel where they have to be in exact position and the owner must step off with the left foot. This trainer doesn’t train a loose leash walk, only heel. She does tell the owners of the dogs to let the dogs “be dogs” for at least part of the walk and not just make them walk in heel position, but I’m not sure how the owners are supposed to keep the dog from pulling at all times outside of a heel when they haven’t been taught that.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

Pytheis said:


> I’m not sure how the owners are supposed to keep the dog from pulling at all times outside of a heel when they haven’t been taught that.


That is a very good question. There’s really no reason to make a dog heel on a regular walk if they can walk nicely on a leash without being in heel position.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

ArkansasGold said:


> There’s really no reason to make a dog heel on a regular walk if they can walk nicely on a leash without being in heel position.


There isn't unless the dog has been told to heel. A dog should always wait to be released after being told sit, heel, down..... There also is little purpose or value in walking on lead for a dog other than working on obedience or keeping the handler company.


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## ceegee (Mar 26, 2015)

Pytheis said:


> Competition style heel where they have to be in exact position and the owner must step off with the left foot. This trainer doesn’t train a loose leash walk, only heel. She does tell the owners of the dogs to let the dogs “be dogs” for at least part of the walk and not just make them walk in heel position, but I’m not sure how the owners are supposed to keep the dog from pulling at all times outside of a heel when they haven’t been taught that.


That is crazy. The vast majority of dog owners just want their dogs to be able to walk nicely on a leash without pulling. You don't have to teach "heel" for that.


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## aesthetic (Apr 23, 2015)

ArkansasGold said:


> If you start them out the right way from day 1, they don’t develop the propensity to pull brainlessly. It’s so much easier than going back and retraining everything. Been there, done that.


Thiiiiis. Eden has never pulled a day in her life. She has also probably been on a leashed walk like maybe 5 times in her entire life.

I’m convinced that because the only time she’s on leash is during a training situation (regardless of “where” that session is taking place), leash automatically means being mindful. I’ve only ever used a regular collar with her. 

It’s even translated to when we’re at the park, walking towards the area I let them off leash. I do not expect any kind of focus (clearly lol), but I do expect a consistently loose leash. In this picture, although you can’t see it, I was holding both leashes with one finger. Would’ve only taken one lunge for them to throw me completely off.


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

If I say with me, Logan walks beside me. If I say heel, he heels looking up at me. We only do that when training for competition. If I say sniff, he knows he can roam more freely without pulling me. A “with me”command works well for us when vehicle traffic is heading our way or if we are in a more crowded place.

If I lived somewhere where it was possible, I would prefer for him to be off leash the majority of the time.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

aesthetic said:


> Thiiiiis. Eden has never pulled a day in her life. She has also probably been on a leashed walk like maybe 5 times in her entire life.


To be very fair though - some dogs are not pullers. Some are born pullers.

Have seen people reduced to tears because their dogs have no sensitivity when it comes to pulling. People talk about aversives and pain, and these dogs are basically choking themselves and they keep doing it.

That's where using corrective collars like prongs or even head halters (which are more aversive than prongs, btw - because I have seen dogs pull and look perfectly happy on prong collars, have never seen a dog pull or look happy while wearing straps which cut into their noses) is practical.

I know some elderly people who'd get blown away by the wind, they are that frail, who can control their dogs using head halters.

It's something I'd never use on my dogs.... however I don't care if people use them.

I'd just ask them to be HONEST about why they are using them and not make up fairy stories about them being gentle and fluffy kind to the dogs while giving hawk eyes to anyone that just uses a plain old correction on a regular collar to control their dogs.

Also pulling is a behavior that is developed/allowed in many cases. I'll be honest right here.

Arriving at a dog show the other day, my dogs were pulling to get inside and SEEEEEE PEOPLE.  I allowed it. I've always allowed it - and that's why they pull.

Same show, I walked practically a city block distance from our ring to my set up with 2 dogs walking on my right side and carrying one of my big 24" metal crates in my left hand. I told them to walk nice, and this was all they needed to walk side by side - by my side without any pulling.

That's what obedience training should get you - using a regular old buckle collar. If you want the dogs to walk nice all the time, then obviously you would do better than me and require them to walk nice all the time.

As people have switched gears and started short cutting training and people started getting dogs that they do not possess the physical strength to control, that's where we have started to get all these corrective devices.

When I started training dogs - you would only use prongs on strong and dominant type dogs like rottweilers or mastiffs who could literally outmuscle their owners. Choke chains or regular collars were typically all you needed for breeds like goldens or labs. I literally remember my instructor sitting down and explaining to puppy people why prong collars work. They are literally like the jaws of an attacking dog closing on your dog's neck.

10+ years passed by and suddenly you had all these little old ladies in competition obedience putting prongs on goldens and similar breeds, because quite honestly many of them are too old and breakable to control their dogs the same way they did 10+ years before. 

As well, collars like prongs and nose straps allow for less noticeable corrections.

People get all horrified about pop corrections, even "chain rattling" - but they don't fuss when they see a dog's ears go back when a prong or nose strap get put on them.... 

Anyway - my point is use the collar you need to based on your physical strength, etc.... and your dog's needs. But be honest and clear about why they work and why you are using them.

As well, short cuts to training are not the same as actually just training your dogs. If you ever want to walk a dog on a loose lead wearing just a regular collar - that's basically what you need to use while training. Dog class instructors charge $20 per class at most places... which quite honestly means they should be teaching people more than how to put a corrective collar on their dog.


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## aesthetic (Apr 23, 2015)

Megora said:


> To be very fair though - some dogs are not pullers. Some are born pullers.


Yes, that’s fair. I’ll never know about Eden though. As it is, I will not tolerate a dog that pulls lol and made a concerted effort not to have that issue with Eden.


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

Personally, I would never let anyone put a halti on my dog. They designed them to mimic a horse harness. Problem is, dogs do not have the neck structure of a horse. They can hurt themselves when it snaps their head around. I don't have a problem with a prong collar but I don't use them often. I only offer the option to beginner students I think need them for safety purposes. If I believe there's a serious possibility for injury. Never should these options be available on the first night! 

I would suggest looking for an obedience club in your area.


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## Pytheis (Mar 17, 2016)

DevWind said:


> Personally, I would never let anyone put a halti on my dog. They designed them to mimic a horse harness. Problem is, dogs do not have the neck structure of a horse. They can hurt themselves when it snaps their head around. I don't have a problem with a prong collar but I don't use them often. I only offer the option to beginner students I think need them for safety purposes. If I believe there's a serious possibility for injury. Never should these options be available on the first night!
> 
> I would suggest looking for an obedience club in your area.


This _is_ the obedience club in my area. Literally the only one within 5+ hours. This trainer has trialed her dogs to really high levels, multiple times. She’s active in obedience, rally, conformation, nose work, and dabbles in agility.


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## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

Out of curiosity, what breed(s) does the instructor have? I'm always a bit suspicious of a trainer who has been successful with only one breed or type of dog, since what might work well with a confident border collie or stubborn Rottweiler might completely melt a sensitive Golden (or pug, or poodle, or insert-your-breed-of-choice).

It's tough if this is your only option. I suppose it depends on how uncomfortable you are with the trainer's techniques, whether the trainer is open to you teaching certain exercises your own way if you don't think her way is right for your dog (and assuming "your way" gets you good results), and whether you think you'd be successful working on basic manners or foundational behaviors on your own with the support of online resources that you are more comfortable with. Another question is whether you are prepared to protect and defend your dog if the trainer insists on using her techniques or if she suggests something you feel is truly abusive, or if she wants to use your dog to demonstrate something and you are concerned that your dog might be hurt/frightened or made distrustful if exposed to that technique. It's HARD to stand up to an "expert" - especially in front of a class or if you are somewhat unsure if you are right or not...

FWIW, I know many people who are competing with their dogs at high levels that I would never choose to train with or under because I know their techniques are wrong for MY dog or my training philosophy....


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

Pytheis said:


> This _is_ the obedience club in my area. Literally the only one within 5+ hours. This trainer has trialed her dogs to really high levels, multiple times. She’s active in obedience, rally, conformation, nose work, and dabbles in agility.


That's crazy! I would politely decline the use of those tools unless my dog acually needed them. Maybe you should talk to the Director of Training and tell them that you aren't comfortable with using these items. There may be another class that's better suited to you.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

pawsnpaca said:


> FWIW, I know many people who are competing with their dogs at high levels that I would never choose to train with or under because I know their techniques are wrong for MY dog or my training philosophy....


I think it really depends - on the instructor and what I would gain from the classes? It's something to consider, particularly since there ARE people out there who are teaching classes and they check all the boxes for being relatively positive and more "happy dog makes the world go around" in their training focus? But who are so annoying or frustrating to classes from - because they are disorganized or focus on things you hate doing and skip the things you really want to work on? 

Example like that would be this person who teaches 45 minute classes, give or take.... of which 20 minutes are spent heeling the dogs around and around and around and around.... until the dogs are pacing and all hanging back and looking dead tired. That kills both the owner and dog's love of heeling = which, if you work on building up heads up heeling and the flash and sparkle of an engaged dog.... it's miserable seeing that slaughtered completely by that teaching style. 

On a different level, same thing with another type of trainer who I took classes from who - I would credit as being the best instructor I've ever had and she was somebody I learned more from in 2 years than I had while taking classes for 10 years. But she was one of those who would not let people heel more than 5 steps!!!!!! The way I got around that was arriving 20 minutes early before class and practicing heeling by myself just because both my dog and I loved our heeling time.  When class began, it was fundamentals at a very foundation type level - all through class. Which we learned, but was very difficult to feel excited about.  

Flipside of that - There's a trainer here in MI who I actually enjoy as an instructor. Probably not as much as some others in my area who are golden focused and know how to bring out the best in a soft golden retriever. But I like the way she teaches classes. You literally get to work on everything crammed into the class time. 

She personally trains under a couple different people who I would say follow Connie Cleveland very closely. And I know she also loves Connie Cleveland. Which, I watched a Connie Cleveland lesson (at a seminar type thing) and was horrified to see how much she encouraged a trainer to nag at her dog until that goldens tail waggy tail went down. 

So there's stuff that gets added to classes which come from people like Connie Cleveland - and I will just say you pick and choose what you will do in these types of situations. Me personally, I will not hit, kick, pinch, etc... my dogs. Likewise, I will not put a prong on a young dog. Even a choke chain, I will not put on a young dog. I regularly put choke chains on my dogs. Heck, the obedience choke chain is NICER than the conformation choke chain which is thin and is kept pretty tight around these dogs necks (any time you have a conformation person yacking about aversives in obedience, they are full of baloney because I have seen what their dogs wear while showing). I have even trained my dogs with a prong - though I don't like the way their ears go back so typically it's not something I reach for unless it is extremely necessary (and I've not considered anything extremely necessary in over 10 years, that I recall). 

This trainer who does push prongs and will tell you that a little pinch does no harm or whatever.... she's an excellent teacher and will absolutely respect what you want to do with your dog while giving you a spot in her classes. 

Long schpeel short - talk to other students about their experience while taking classes with somebody. Sometimes an instructor who looks good philosophy wise - can make obedience as exciting as paint drying on the wall. Sometimes an instructor who you would think would be a nightmare to take classes from - teaches a full class that makes you feel like that was money well spent at the end of the day. 

My suggestion to the OP is to talk to the instructor and see if there they will be flexible in teaching the OP without pushing corrective collars or methods that the OP does not care for. If that is the case and this instructor is very experienced and titled many dogs at high levels - then I'd probably would give it a try since this is the only place to train within a 5 hour driving radius.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

Pytheis said:


> This _is_ the obedience club in my area. Literally the only one within 5+ hours. This trainer has trialed her dogs to really high levels, multiple times. She’s active in obedience, rally, conformation, nose work, and dabbles in agility.


Something to consider, I have never been to an obedience class or sent a dog to a pro trainer.
All of my training friends and mentors and I have achieved success in varying degrees.


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## Pytheis (Mar 17, 2016)

I’m definitely pursuing online avenues for training as well. I just find I get more out of in-person training than I do watching a video, trying to repeat the exercise with my dog, recording myself, then sending it in for feedback. Both work, but one is more my style!

I have spoken with the trainer, and she is very open to my way of doing things. She has no issue if anyone doesn’t want to use one of the training collars; she just says it’ll take a lot longer to get where you want to go without one. I suppose that could be true. I’ll take my time.

Also, she is a Pembroke Welsh corgi person. Shows, competes, and breeds them.


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## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

Pytheis said:


> She has no issue if anyone doesn’t want to use one of the training collars; she just says it’ll take a lot longer to get where you want to go without one.


Sounds like a great challenge to me! Prove her wrong! 

You probably already know this, but Fenzi Dog Sports Academy has many great courses on teaching a happy, bouncy, precision heel....


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## GoldenDude (Nov 5, 2016)

Gentle leaders can be an effective training tool. They must be used properly and the puppy acclimated to them. Most people, though, don’t do this. Really there is no perfect training tool or method. All can be abused or used incorrectly. You have to find something that works for you and that you will learn how to properly use and use consistently. 

if you’re going to use a prong collar, I highly advise using a “closeted” one (meaning it has a cloth covering over the top so it’s less obvious what it is) unless you like hearing people offer unsolicited advice about a prong collar while you’re in public.


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

Pytheis said:


> I’m definitely pursuing online avenues for training as well. I just find I get more out of in-person training than I do watching a video, trying to repeat the exercise with my dog, recording myself, then sending it in for feedback. Both work, but one is more my style!
> 
> I have spoken with the trainer, and she is very open to my way of doing things. She has no issue if anyone doesn’t want to use one of the training collars; she just says it’ll take a lot longer to get where you want to go without one. I suppose that could be true. I’ll take my time.
> 
> Also, she is a Pembroke Welsh corgi person. Shows, competes, and breeds them.


That explains a lot. The Corgis I know tend to be dogs that need a much firmer approach. They will walk all over a soft handler. What she says is true for some dogs, not all. There's no one size fits all approach. 

I would just go without a prong or halti. Use your flat buckle collar for now. You can always move to different tools as you feel necessary. I have 1 who needed a prong and one that's never needed more than a chain collar. He actually sulks at anything heavy on his neck.


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