# Trainer - Need Help



## jak_sak (Jan 23, 2008)

I met with this trainer in my city. She has 15 years of training experience, certified, member of ADTP, runs her dog boarding facility and loves dogs. I told her about my issues -

1. Cassie goes ballistic when he sees other dogs or people to the point he doesn't mind choking himself on the prong collar.

2. One or two freak accidents once in a while.

3. Doesn't listen to me with distractions


She said he was a typical golden puppy and it was upto me to step it up and "lead him" and show him whats acceptable and what is not. She follows a lot of Cesar Milan's philosophies, but also incorporates other training styles into her regimen. She said each dog is different and no "one" training philosophy works for all dogs which is what they do in those group classes at pet shops!

Anyway, getting back to this trainer, she gave me about 25 written "testimonials" and references whom she suggested I call if needed. She seemed to be in no rush to sign me up and wanted me to think over it.


Now the BIG PART - her training runs five 1-hr sessions spread either every week or every other week. The total cost for the entire training course is $650. YES, You heard me right. Thats $130 an hour!!! Even I don't make anything close to that per hour (and I am a highly in demand Business Analyst). The training will be in-home and in areas where I frequent (local supermarket, dog park, downtown, my neighborhood, etc).


{Cassie is well behaved on walks and listens when he is JUST with me. But with distractions, he turns into a whole different puppy.}


What do you guys think? Does this sound reasonable or is it too expensive?


Please HELP!!!


Cheers..
-JI


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

jak_sak said:


> I met with this trainer in my city. She has 15 years of training experience, certified, member of ADTP, runs her dog boarding facility and loves dogs. I told her about my issues -
> 
> 1. Cassie goes ballistic when he sees other dogs or people to the point he doesn't mind choking himself on the prong collar.
> 
> ...


 
What I think is that I am going to raise MY price!!!!!!! lol

Not really. I've been charging the same rate for years and will continue to do so, as I think that access to help for folks who need it should be affordable. Shoot, we do a lot gratis, rather than see a dog "dumped" because lack of training makes it impossible to live with.


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

Okay, this is just my 2 cents for what it's worth.

First and foremost: For me, 650 dollars for 5 classes is absolutely ridiculous!! I personally would never pay that much!! 

Okay, now that we have that out of the way, I'm actually a bit confused here. (Not your fault) Maybe I have to do my homework a little better, but I thought this APDT organization was for POSITIVE training techniques. If she is following the philosophies of Cesar Milan, then she falls outside of the scope of APDT and I am unsure of how she came to belong to this organization. Personally, when dealing with a puppy that has what are essentially minor puppy issues (not meaning that they're not a pain in the rear for you, but that most pups go through this), I would never consider going to an extreme philosophy of dominance like Cesar uses. It's well above and beyond what you need for Cassanova in my opinion. 

Now training in your home and areas you frequent are great things, but I think the questionable aspects of this trainer (cost, techniques) outweigh that bonus (location). Here's my take: in a regular group class, you certainly have plenty of distraction. You can then apply what you learn at class in your home and areas you frequent to help the training carry over to your every day life. 

Okay, one more major point. This trainer made a generalization about group classes that is only slightly accurate. Although I wouldn't personally recommend group classes at a pet store (some have had good experiences, but I tend to think you can find someplace better), a training facility with experienced trainers is most likely exactly what you need. Although they do tend to begin by teaching one (often successful) method to everyone, any trainer worth his/her salt will have a variety of tricks up her sleeve for any dog that does not respond to the first method. I have found the trainers I have worked with over the last 2 years with Jersey to be a wealth of knowledge on a variety of techniques, and they are always striving to learn new information. 

If it were me, I would continue searching for a trainer. As always, though, just my opinion. Good luck!!

Julie and Jersey


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## Abbydabbydo (Jan 31, 2007)

The trainer sounds good and it would be fun and informative I would guess. Your issues are certainly not out of the norm and will probably subside in time as you continue to work with Cassie. Does she get to socialize with other dogs? Her going ballistic meeting them s just excitement and energy. I guess it is up to you whether you think it is worth the money. Good luck!


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## jak_sak (Jan 23, 2008)

Pointgold said:


> What I think is that I am going to raise MY price!!!!!!! lol


How much do you charge by the hour?



> Okay, now that we have that out of the way, I'm actually a bit confused here. (Not your fault) Maybe I have to do my homework a little better, but I thought this APDT organization was for POSITIVE training techniques. If she is following the philosophies of Cesar Milan, then she falls outside of the scope of APDT and I am unsure of how she came to belong to this organization. Personally, when dealing with a puppy that has what are essentially minor puppy issues (not meaning that they're not a pain in the rear for you, but that most pups go through this), I would never consider going to an extreme philosophy of dominance like Cesar uses. It's well above and beyond what you need for Cassanova in my opinion.


Wow! That was strong. Good points. My understanding of reading Cesar's books and watching his show is that a dog should earn his reward and has rules, boundaries and limitations which he has to follow. And in order to apply that, you have to be a pack leader. (everyone - please don't respond to my thought above - I don't want this to be another Cesar Milan thread!)

But I will keep it in mind!! 


Can the other beloved trainers in here also chime in pls? I really appreciate any input anyone might have.


Cheers..
-JI


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

choke::cough $650.00!!!
Wow!!!...for dealing with what she has stated are 'typical' puppy issues...waaaay too much money...


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

jak_sak said:


> Wow! That was strong. Good points. My understanding of reading Cesar's books and watching his show is that a dog should earn his reward and has rules, boundaries and limitations which he has to follow. And in order to apply that, you have to be a pack leader. (everyone - please don't respond to my thought above - I don't want this to be another Cesar Milan thread!)
> 
> But I will keep it in mind!!
> Cheers..
> -JI


Okay, I know you said not to respond, but here I am anyway. Actually, I think that part of Cesar's message is very good... as is his emphasis on getting your dog enough exercise. However, and this is just my opinion, there are other ways to put yourself in the packleader position that are less traditionally "dominance" oriented, especially when dealing with normal puppy mischief (as opposed to true agression or other more serious issues). Do a search for NILIF ("Nothing in Life is Free"). It's a wonderful way to teach your dog that he must earn everything, whether it's sitting and waiting patiently for food, a trip outside, attention from you, anything. I haven't used it formally with Jersey, but I do encorporate quite a few of the methods in my training. You're right, this isn't the place to debate the merit of Cesar's techniques... there may be a time and a place for his theory... but I do think that when it comes to these normal puppy issues there are many other methods I would try first. Of course, ultimately, the decision is up to you.

Julie and Jersey


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

jak_sak said:


> I met with this trainer in my city. She has 15 years of training experience, certified, member of ADTP, runs her dog boarding facility and loves dogs. I told her about my issues -
> 
> 1. Cassie goes ballistic when he sees other dogs or people to the point he doesn't mind choking himself on the prong collar.
> 
> ...


I need to raise my rates.


First, you're paying a premium for private lessons. That is about the going rate in many regions for private in-home lessons. (Remember that transportation, equipment, vehicle insurance and professional liability insurance all cost money too. You're paying for more than just the Trainer's time.) 

While some one on one time with the trainer may be of benefit to you, you're really going to need a training group to work with so you can simulate the types of distractions that are causing problems for you and deal with them in a controlled setting.


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## Emma&Tilly (May 15, 2005)

I wouldn't pay ANY trainer THAT much...(especially one using methods I probably wouldn't agree with...if she follows some of CM's philosophies...) 

I would look around! It doesn't sound like you have huge issues with your pup...the main thing is getting him into a situation where he is able to socialise and mix with other dogs and get used to listening to you with the distraction of these other dogs and people...you can certainly get that from even the most basic of class. I get that sort of environment from my local village hall dog training class that charges £1.50 per week! lol!


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## jak_sak (Jan 23, 2008)

Jersey's Mom said:


> Do a search for NILIF ("Nothing in Life is Free"). It's a wonderful way to teach your dog that he must earn everything, whether it's sitting and waiting patiently for food, a trip outside, attention from you, anything. I haven't used it formally with Jersey, but I do encorporate quite a few of the methods in my training.


Wow! Thats an amazing concept! And similar to you, although I don't incorporate it formally on Cassie, without knowing about this method, I have been using it on him!! Cassie can only come up the couch or into my bedroom if I give him permission to. He will run and play chase with me and the moment I go into the bedroom, he will stop right outside like it were an electric fence or something! Maybe its an "Emotional Fence" - wow! thats a new term! Cassie gets to play only when I think its time and he has to site down and wait patiently for 30 secs before his food is placed down. After its placed down, he turns around and looks at me and doesn't eat until I tell him "OK".

But my problem is, he does this when with me alone, he id good on walks alone - but the moment he sees another dog or a human within his personal space, he gets excited! He's not aggressive, but he disregards all commands and NILIF at that time and goes ballistic.


Thanks to the others for chiming in. Good thing I did not whip out my wallet yesterday! whew!


Cheers..
-JI

PS: I respect and think CM is great! Anyone for a debate? We can start a new thread....J/K...


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

In the greater Los Angeles area, private training is roughly $75-$125 per hour.

If it were me, I'd start with a *good* group class. Look around. Some are much better than others. Depends on the trainer. As a general rule, I say avoid PetCo/PetsMart places since usually, the trainer has little experience - typically freshly "certified" (a whole different debate in and of itself) trainer who is recently starting out.

In general APDT trainers should be positive and dog-friendly. Some do subscribe to CM methods - and some moreso than others. It's a huge debate within APDT right now. He makes some good points, but in general, IMO, is too "dominance-minded" and doesn't appear to employ much solid learning theory.

If I were you, I'd start with a good group class and add a private lesson later if you feel you need extra help with a specific issue. The advantage of a group class is that your dog is learning to focus on you around distractions, which is really the biggest hurdle for dogs.

-Stephanie


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

FlyingQuizini said:


> In general APDT trainers should be positive and dog-friendly. Some do subscribe to CM methods - and some moreso than others. It's a huge debate within APDT right now. He makes some good points, but in general, IMO, is too "dominance-minded" and doesn't appear to employ much solid learning theory.
> -Stephanie


Thanks for clearning that up Steph... it's been confusing me all day. I still don't get the theory behind it, but it makes more sense that this trainer isn't completely out of the realm of the APDT, seeing as she's affiliated with them. (reading this back I'm not sure it makes any sense... hope you can figure out what I"m trying to say better than I can! :doh

Julie and Jersey


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## winewinn (Jan 7, 2008)

I don't think that price is unreasonable for private lessons with an overall fee of $650 (which will probably be just that one course, right?). She is driving to and from, and then there's also the consideration of time as well as her expertise. If she can teach you how to lead and help eliminate your dog's quirks, it's probably money well spent.


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