# UPDATE ON FIRST OB TRAIL! ;) and question?



## OnGoldenPond (Mar 30, 2011)

One more quick question: In Novice A, is it permissible to look down at your dog while heeling? I tend to do this.....wondering if I am getting points off for that. When I am training, I tend to look at the dogs head, and when they look up at me, I give them a praise (That's it, YES, or something like that) as I want their focus to be on me. and sometimes give them a treat....just wasn't sure if I should be looking straight ahead at the trial ?? 

Thanks, again!!


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

I look at my dogs while heeling  It is a team sport and I personally do not like the look of staring straight ahead while your dog is trying to do their part in being happy and wanting to engage you to be part of the team too.

Some judges might hit you for points but hey, in the long run it is you and your dog that matter


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

My dog was trained all the way through utility (the most advanced level) when we showed in Beginner Novice. It's not taking a step back in training - you can still train more advanced work. It is getting them AND you more comfortable being in the ring while doing simpler exercises.


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## OnGoldenPond (Mar 30, 2011)

Thank you so much! I think for the November trial, we will enter them in the Beginner class then. If not for the dogs, then for my son...he needs some success under his belt for confidence and, well, just pride. He was so disheartened after this weekend and said he felt embarrassed....for some reason, he needs tons of reinforcement and "pumping up". Not sure why, maybe it's his personality or his age, but that is one reason I kind of push him, or encourage him as it were, to work with the dogs...he needs confidence in himself and to work hard at something...to finish what he started (seems to have some quit in him! yikes!)is that wrong as a parent?? I hate to be one of those parents to forces their kid to do sports/activites for all the wrong reasons...


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

The suggestion to start in BegNovice where the heeling is all on leash also has the added benefit of not letting your dog practice poor heeling in a trial setting...


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## TheZ's (Jun 13, 2011)

Beginner Novice was a confidence builder for us. We were training for Novice but I just didn't feel that we were solid in off leash heeling. Having a little success does encourage one to keep going. And it's not going backward in training. There are a couple of things that are a little different: 1) the rally type signs for heeling (no judge calling the pattern); 2) sit (rather than stand) for exam; and 3) the sit, stay, walk around (rather than the group sit stay and down stay). The sit, stay, walk around can be a little challenging for some dogs. In my experience, getting reliable performance under varying conditions and distractions is more difficult than the original training of the particular exercises and requires consistent repetition over an extended period of time.


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## OnGoldenPond (Mar 30, 2011)

Yup, I agree with that. What is so bothersome, is we all heel..er, dogs all heel GREAT off least at home and at class/practice elsewhere. It's the ring setting/noise/distractions that are throwing them off. In retrospect, I should have left the building while Maggie was working with my son...she wants to look for me. (Gee, I really wish I could show her, as she will work very hard for me, but cannot b/c it will mess up Garrett in 4H!!!) I totally agree, tho, they can get into bad habits. Before we began our second day, the judge told us that if the dog screws up (ie, startes to wonder off course...go grab the dog and make it do it correctly (even though we NQ'd in doing so) just to help prevent the dog getting the idea that it's ok to act like that in the ring. At the point they wonder off, she said we already failed the exercise, so we might as well make them do it correctly. She was a great judge! So helpful and understanding.


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

The judges will allow a little freedom to help you but you also need to remember it is not a fun match. They can also get in trouble for allowing too much freedom. 
There is no such thing as going backward in training. You are always working out some issue that comes up. 
You are not going to like my answer... but if you want your son to like it he has to be successful. I would do Rally Novice or Beginner Novice.. You need to stay on leash. The lagging off leash can be a deal breaker and a very hard thing to break of dog of once they have done it in the ring a few times. I know your puppies are great at home or the training center .. totally a different thing. 
Rally novice can be challenging and rewarding but they need to practice practice practice.. Very few people can pick up an instrument and play well with a couple months of training but to be proud and confident just takes time.
I mean nothing mean by this and hope you take the advice in the light it was given..Best of luck with whatever you decide.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I agree with what everyone above said. 

Only other thing to add or suggest - remember to warm up the dogs as much as they need to be warmed up before you go into the ring. Get them in training mode. 

I think that makes the biggest difference for a lot of people... based on watching at trials. Those people whose dogs glide into the ring and do well generally were up and warming up with their moms about 5 minutes before they went into the ring. The people who have the most problems generally aren't doing much of an organized warmup before going out into the ring. 

The other thing too is get to the trial early enough for your dogs to get acclimated to the noise and fuss around them. 

My routine with Jacks who is the ultimate nervous anxious little dog at shows is generally getting to the trial site at least an hour before I expect to be in the ring. Then I'm paying attention to the judging program and who is in the ring. 

Beginner Novice and Rally = 3 dogs ahead of me, get up and start warming up.
Novice = 1 dog ahead of me, get up and start warming up. 

Warm up for Jacks =

Pacing back and forth working on attention, sits, tight wrap about turns, and scooting back u-turns. And then timing things so that when the person ahead of me is doing their recal, I'm getting in a few quick scoot sits and a few scoot fronts and watches. 

You might need to do more or less than that.


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## OnGoldenPond (Mar 30, 2011)

You said I wouldn't like your answer, but I TOTALLY AGREE. I get what you are saying and took it as intended. He needs to see a payoff. Cannot blame him. When he and Maggie earned the Champion at the fair, he was so pumped up and proud. Then again, at the state fair (our first time going) he was so disheartened when she screwed up...but, he (after a while) was pretty happy with the fact that, for her first time at an event like that, she really did pretty darn good. If she had not screwed up the recall (she ran up to him and jumped on him before sitting) they would have earned a score of 185.5, which was 26th place out of 100+ kids. NOT BAD at all for a first timer!!! Then, I showed him what the other dogs were doing...some much worse! Some about the same...all levels....so I think he got it that you just cannot ever control (not totally) what an animal will do. 
SO, I think we will try Beg.A next time and see how that goes. I just keep telling him that all you can do is work hard and try your best....gotta be proud of even getting out there and trying. It takes guts for a kid to go to a show with 500+ dogs! 

Anyway, Megora, yup, I agree with you there. The first day, since we were so late, we didn't get much warm up or calm down time. We pretty much did what you said you did on the second day, and really saw an improvement. Another thing we started doing is having my son be the one to always feed Maggie, treat Maggie, play with her...ect. He always makes sure he lets her have some fun right after practice, too....been making a difference.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

OnGoldenPond said:


> He always makes sure he lets her have some fun right after practice, too....been making a difference.


That's one area where I differ. I want the fun to be _during _the training, not after. When I'm working with my dogs, we are having a blast, but when working time is over we're taking a break from the fun. When we get out of the ring at a trial I walk directly from the ring to the crate and let my dog stay in the crate for awhile. I want him to find being in the ring the most fun time he'll have. I don't want my dog thinking he wants the work to be over so the fun can start, I want him thinking let's keep training it's so much fun!

As for warming up the dog, it can vary widely from dog to dog what works, and it's just a matter of getting to know the dog and what works for them. I do always try to get to the trial at least an hour before our ring time. When we first get there I'll walk them around for awhile so they can get used to the environment, and then I'll do a little heeling and if they like to tug we'll tug a little (In Flip's case make that a LOT of heeling and a LOT of tugging). If there's a problem exercise I'll make sure to practice that early, long before ring time (I usually always do a set of articles at the show site with my utility dogs). 

With Annabel (my novice A dog) once I put her back in the crate, she stayed up there right up until ring time. I would actually wait for the team before me to be walking out of the ring before I would get her out of the crate. So we'd be going straight from the crate to the ring. 

With Colby, I would take him out of his crate about 10 minutes before we showed. If he came out happy, he would stay out and we would heel and play until ring time. If he came out pouty he went back in the crate until ring time. 

With Conner, when he was first starting out in obedience he needed out of his crate a few dogs before his turn. We would spend the entire time doing fronts, finishes, heeling, etc. As he became more seasoned he needed less time out of his crate before his turn. Towards the end of his career, on his first time in the ring for the weekend I would get him out as the dog before him was walking into the ring. By the time it got to be his final class for the weekend I wouldn't get him out until the dog before him was halfway through his last exercise.

At this point with Flip, he is out of his crate several dogs before his turn. But we're not really doing anything, he's just hanging out. I have a double chair that I bring in when there's enough space and I'll just let him sit in the chair with me. Dog before him you'll usually find me sitting on the floor outside the ring, rubbing his belly. When that dog is finished and I'm waiting to be called into the ring, I have Flip in heel position and I'm giving him long, slow strokes down his back.

So as you can see, four different dogs and four different ways I had to handle those few minutes before they had their turn. That's one of the benefits of showing in classes like Beginner Novice, it gives you a change to learn these things about your dog before you get into novice.


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## Goldendogx2 (Sep 2, 2007)

Get all the ring time you can. As for your son, of course wins are exciting, but the lessons learned about working, setting and reaching goals are really outside the ring. I get all choked up when I watch juniors handling their dogs. When the success comes, and it will, how much more rewarding to know the work and investment put into the effort that can be applied as your young man approaches life outside the ring. Keep training, loving, and trying. Keep us posted!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

^ _And_ we need more guys getting into obedience training.  We have a terrible shortage of them. There is one guy at one of the places I train at, and we ALL run to him to get him to do the stand for exam with our dogs to prep for all the guy judges.


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## OnGoldenPond (Mar 30, 2011)

Loisiana said:


> That's one area where I differ. I want the fun to be _during _the training, not after.
> 
> THANK YOU FOR THAT....had not considered that...will try to do that...as I think you are on to something there!


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## OnGoldenPond (Mar 30, 2011)

Goldendogx2 said:


> Get all the ring time you can. As for your son, of course wins are exciting, but the lessons learned about working, setting and reaching goals are really outside the ring. I get all choked up when I watch juniors handling their dogs. When the success comes, and it will, how much more rewarding to know the work and investment put into the effort that can be applied as your young man approaches life outside the ring. Keep training, loving, and trying. Keep us posted!


Awww..that's sweet. This is why I encourage (if not give him a choice sometimes) to work with the dogs...there are so many life lessons to be learned. I love the way the crowd reacts to the kids as well. I will say I really appreciated the way several people came up to him to give him encouragement and praise for getting himself out there. Everyone was very helpful to him...giving him tips. In 4H, there are some (very few) that do that for the kids, but it's sooooo competitive, so you don't get much of that. What I love about AKC, is bascially, you are competing against yourself (sure, it's nice to place..). 

We received the boys' Jr. Handler numbers yesterday, and they are so excited!!! Very grateful AKC has that program.


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