# Question about breeder and English cream retrievers



## cpsimone (Jan 4, 2008)

Hi everyone,
I was wondering if anyone has any knowledge of - or could give me your instincts about - this breeder of English and American golden retrievers? I've been doing a lot of research but I'm not sure I know all the signs to look for and I'm so wary of buying online...
http://charisgoldens.com/index.html

Also, I'm drawn to the beautiful creamy coat of the English types but know much less about them - anyone know of any unique problems I should look out for? Also, what's the general thinking about 100% English vs. 50% American/50% English...any general points would be helpful. I'm just trying to make sure I've thought of everything before I make the leap. 

Thank you!


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## Oaklys Dad (Dec 28, 2005)

Welcome to the forum. I have a 1/2 English/ 1/2 American golden and couldn't be more in love with a dog. I took a quick glance at the web site you linked and it appears they do most clearances and offer a longer than usual health guarentee. Find out all you can about them and in the end you will have to make the call. Just remember there are no REAL guarantees. Even the best breeders turn out a bum dog.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

I will preface that this is my opinion.
If someone is savy enough to advertise on the internet you should be savy enough to include links to pedigrees and clearances not just say they are available upon request. Even the wording "All our dogs hips, elbows,hearts and eyes are tested before we breed them" just makes me uncomfortable. 
Also I see no reference to any registrattion, AKC, UKC, CKC.
They may be 110% okay, but I would ask a lot of questions before considering a pup, but then I would suggest you do that with every breeder.


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## Brady's mom (Dec 20, 2007)

My Brady is also 1/2 American, half British. He's a pill but I think he's a handsome guy.


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## cpsimone (Jan 4, 2008)

Brady's mom said:


> My Brady is also 1/2 American, half British. He's a pill but I think he's a handsome guy.


LOL! What's not to love about a (half) british boy - incredibly charming, I'm sure ;-)


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## cpsimone (Jan 4, 2008)

AmbikaGR said:


> I will preface that this is my opinion.
> If someone is savy enough to advertise on the internet you should be savy enough to include links to pedigrees and clearances not just say they are available upon request. Even the wording "All our dogs hips, elbows,hearts and eyes are tested before we breed them" just makes me uncomfortable.
> Also I see no reference to any registrattion, AKC, UKC, CKC.
> They may be 110% okay, but I would ask a lot of questions before considering a pup, but then I would suggest you do that with every breeder.


Well, I never cease to be amazed at how bad a lot of websites are in the pet industry (sorry - i work in web design), so I'll cut them a little slack for not including everything they should. But your point is well taken, and clearly I need to start making a list of things to check on.


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## cpsimone (Jan 4, 2008)

Oaklys Dad said:


> Welcome to the forum. I have a 1/2 English/ 1/2 American golden and couldn't be more in love with a dog. I took a quick glance at the web site you linked and it appears they do most clearances and offer a longer than usual health guarentee. Find out all you can about them and in the end you will have to make the call. Just remember there are no REAL guarantees. Even the best breeders turn out a bum dog.


Thanks for the welcome! Oakly's a beautiful dog...


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## Phoebe (Feb 8, 2006)

I see some red flags..several litters of puppies within a short period of time. The english litter, Diamond...the pedigree I find on the k9data for White Dove Taul Diamond Gem, shows only hip clearance (f) and heart clearance, no elbow eye clearance. Perhaps it just wasn't entered...but the website listed for Diamond is Taul Golden Retrievers which when I did a search is a breeder from California. Perhaps Carisgoldens purchased Diamond from them and has since done the rest of the clearances...but I'd tread carefully with this breeder. Charis Snowhite, the closest I found on k9data was Starr Charis Snowhite and that dog was born in 2006. It could easily not be the dog she has listed on her site, but since she is advertising clearances, I'm concerned with the little I found (didn't find). For the life of me, I can't understand why her english litter is $2,500 and her American/English litter is $1,200. 

Jan, Seamus, Gracie, Phoebe & Duke


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## cpsimone (Jan 4, 2008)

Phoebe said:


> I see some red flags..several litters of puppies within a short period of time. The english litter, Diamond...the pedigree I find on the k9data for White Dove Taul Diamond Gem, shows only hip clearance (f) and heart clearance, no elbow eye clearance. Perhaps it just wasn't entered...but the website listed for Diamond is Taul Golden Retrievers which when I did a search is a breeder from California. Perhaps Carisgoldens purchased Diamond from them and has since done the rest of the clearances...but I'd tread carefully with this breeder. Charis Snowhite, the closest I found on k9data was Starr Charis Snowhite and that dog was born in 2006. It could easily not be the dog she has listed on her site, but since she is advertising clearances, I'm concerned with the little I found (didn't find). For the life of me, I can't understand why her english litter is $2,500 and her American/English litter is $1,200.
> 
> Jan, Seamus, Gracie, Phoebe & Duke


Wow, that is great detective work...thank you! I was also really puzzled by the price difference between the two. I have no idea what to make of it.


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## jm2319 (Dec 14, 2007)

Hi and welcome! I have a 100% English boy. Based solely on my boy Jensen, I wouldn't say there are any unique problems to look for with an English vs. American. He's been very healthy and has a great temperament...I think ultimately the choice in breeder is key. Good luck in your search for your companion!


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## DUSTYRD2 (Feb 28, 2007)

........and there should be no difference in price for a golden from English lines. We have several friends who have English lines and they do not charge more than for an American/Canadian line. That in itself should be a red flag.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

cpsimone said:


> Hi everyone,
> I was wondering if anyone has any knowledge of - or could give me your instincts about - this breeder of English and American golden retrievers? I've been doing a lot of research but I'm not sure I know all the signs to look for and I'm so wary of buying online...
> http://charisgoldens.com/index.html
> 
> ...


 
Based upon the lack of information offered on the website I would look elsewhere for a pup. 

(Beside the fact that I find it a bit unethical to pilfer the name of another successful breeders line.)


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## cpsimone (Jan 4, 2008)

*recommendations?*

Thank you all for your feedback - i agree there are some questionable things about this particular breeder's site and I'm still immersed in web searches for others that may be better.

To those of you who have English American or English pups, can you recommend the breeders you went through, or any others you've heard good things about? I live in New York but am more concerned about quality than location...

Thanks!


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## Emma&Tilly (May 15, 2005)

I would stay very far away from a breeder that charges such ridiclous prices for the same breed of dog...you would never get away with that in this country! If a particular breeder in the US has a love of the English type golden retriever then fair enough, introduce them to your breeding programme but then to charge such high prices?? I see it nothing more than a money making ploy. I would email tham and ask them why they do it (but then run away!)


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## Emma&Tilly (May 15, 2005)

Hmmm just had a quick search and this kennel is in Canada, I have no idea if they are ethical/responsible breeders but just by looking at their website things don't seem as dodgy to me as when looking at the first one posted. I especially like the 'kennel checklist' they provide, and they seem quite upfront and not playing on the 'rare' 'creme' thing (which makes me feel sick!) THAT seems quite rare in itself!! Is Canada out of the question?

http://www.blackpoolkennels.com/


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## Ivrygld (Oct 22, 2005)

*How about this breeder*

Since you are in N.Y. this is a great breeder to consider:
http://www.glenfinnanfarms.net/


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## cpsimone (Jan 4, 2008)

Emma&Tilly said:


> Hmmm just had a quick search and this kennel is in Canada, I have no idea if they are ethical/responsible breeders but just by looking at their website things don't seem as dodgy to me as when looking at the first one posted. I especially like the 'kennel checklist' they provide, and they seem quite upfront and not playing on the 'rare' 'creme' thing (which makes me feel sick!) THAT seems quite rare in itself!! Is Canada out of the question?
> 
> http://www.blackpoolkennels.com/


Thank you for the recommendation - I agree at first look they look pretty good. I'll investigate further and see what I find. Thanks!


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## cpsimone (Jan 4, 2008)

Ivrygld said:


> Since you are in N.Y. this is a great breeder to consider:
> http://www.glenfinnanfarms.net/


Thank you!!


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

I did notice that one of the Glenfinnan studs, Luca, had only a hip clearance on OFA and no elbow clearance. Heart and eye could be done but just not listed on OFA. 

It does not appear that they x-ray elbows, which is one of the clearances listed in the GRCA Code of Ethics.

It is up to the puppy buyer to thoroughly investigate the breeder they are interested in. When flags arise, such as above with Glenfinnan, the buyer should contact the breeder and ask questions.

And I cannot say this too many times (and this has nothing to do with Glenfinnan or the other kennel discussed, specifically), a warranty/guarantee that requires the return of the original puppy in order for the breeder to make good on it, is worthless. No good breeder will require the return of the puppy under those circumstances. Certainly they should always be willing to take the puppy/dog back if the owner no longer wants or can care for it, but it is not right to force the return of a puppy in order for a warranty/guarantee to be enforces.


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## Chaucer and Mom (Feb 26, 2007)

Tanglewood Goldens has a great reputation. 

www.tanglewoodgoldens.com

Best of luck.

I have an all English Golden and he's grown up to be a mellow, sweet guy.


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## Catesfinn (Nov 12, 2007)

I have a wonderful English boy from Tanglewood and couldn't be happier. Good luck with your search!


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## dstarins (Feb 21, 2007)

I have a 100% English boy. He is very light in color. We had an American golden for 12 years, he passed away last year. I fell in love with the English goldens and did a lot of research on breeders. I found ventessenglishgoldens.com, they are located in North Carolina, it was quite a drive from Tennessee, but worth it. The owners are actually from England and brought the parents over from there. The only real difference we have noticed between the American and English is that the English Golden seems to have a lot oilier skin, and smells a lot sooner after a bath than the American. Otherwise, he is very friendly, loving, and smart.


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## hgatesy (Feb 14, 2007)

Chaucer and Mom.... I'm assuming your pup is from Tanglewood? They have some gorgeous dogs there! I was just looking at their site.


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## alsublett (Jan 9, 2008)

*Goldens are a great choice*

:bowl:I have an English Creme pup (8 months old) and a second who is almost 2 months. They are great dogs. IF you like the temperment of the Golden, the color makes no difference in attitude and behavior.

We used Golden creek Kennels in Raleigh, NC. They are amazing. They have 7 males and over 20 females breeding. They make sure that there is NO crossing of bloodlines. I have been very impressed. They are expensive ($1200-1500) but I have found that you get what you pay for. This breeder also guarantees health AND temperment for 26 months.

Anyway - you asked about the Creme... They tend to be about 1-2" shorter, but have the same curly,wavy locks. The girls usually weigh about 10-15lbs less. In general, they are the same as brownies, just white.

I LOVE THEM. My two are gorgeous and are my heart!


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## tsdairy (Dec 9, 2007)

dstarins Debbie S., I have my girl with Ventess lines. Her grandpa is Ventess AMerican Idol back to Eiderberry (spelling) I talked to jane on the phone cause Ventess American Idol was sold to someone by her and that guy resold him making a profit (under false terms to Jane) then my puppies breeder had him and is still listed as having him but refuses to answer my ?'s where he is or what happened to him as Jane wanted to know so bad where he is. She's worried about him. I'm happy to have a decendent from their lines. My male apollo is a morning valley decendent (mom from there) dad from I forget !LOL LOVE them though. Faith is a very light cream color and apollo is pretty white


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