# Big Problem - Fear Aggression



## bunker's mom (Jul 15, 2008)

i have written before on this site regarding our four month old boy - golden retriever - aggrression that i thought was resource guarding. well the vet, two expert behaviorists and another very big retriever breeder all feel this puppy was born with this fear aggression and it will only get worse. all tell me to bring the pup back to the breeder. i talked with the breeder last week and she said to call her this week regarding the experts' opinions i have called her on tuesday twice and today in the morning. now she will not return my calls. i also emailed her. 

i cannot do with this dog i wanted to like obedience and agility. i am afraid for my other dogs and afraid to let people visit. this is very sad for me. i love this puppy. but i am not equiped to handle this. 

i know the law in florida and don't want to be forced into any legal action. i hope the breeder steps up and works with us. i am sure she does not want this to be made public.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

I am so very sorry you are having this happen to you and your poor puppy. I am also afraid of what will happen if the breeder takes him back. She may have him put to sleep. I know ethical breeders wouldn't do that but since she is not answering your calls, it makes me wonder.

What did the behaviorist suggest for working with him? My Gunner is dog aggressive out of fear (he has anxiety issues) but he is not resource aggressive or guarding at all. Most of the time Gunner is docile, except around strange dogs.

I think LibertyME or Flying Quizini will have some suggestions for you. Hang in there. I feel so bad for your pup.


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## Lego&Jacub (Jul 18, 2006)

If you pup is only four months old I would think that a good trainer or behaviourist could really work with you guys to fix the problem early on. He's just a baby and not set in his ways... I would hope that the problem could be worked on.


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## Emma&Tilly (May 15, 2005)

oh he is so so young...I can't even believe so many people have 'evaluated' his behaviour at such a tender age! He is still such a baby that I truely don't think anything you are seeing cannot be fixed...I know it is easy for me to say without ever having seen him but he is 16 weeks old!!! Can you tell us a little more about specific situations and how it is handled?


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## Tanyac (Jun 18, 2008)

I feel sad that you are having so many problems with your pup. I agree with Emma in that a pup so young is only just starting to form his behaviour patterns. Are there any temperament problems with any other pups? What about the mother? Whatever started this behaviour, he obviously had a measure of success with so used the same behaviours again. Maybe having several older dogs in the house has made him feel more insecure. Is he kept separate from them? Have you been given some ideas on how to handle any incidences from the behaviourists?

I feel a bit angry with the breeder, who should be helping you - he/she should not be washing their hands and should be giving you encouragement and support. Well, you know you'll get tons of support from everyone here.

This can't be the end, it's only just the beginning - where you can begin to understand these behaviours and help him to behave in a more appropriate manner.


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## bunker's mom (Jul 15, 2008)

*Thanks here is a part of what one of the experts*

said.


"Anxiety - The owner states that the dog consistantly shows fear and anxiety when loud, unusual or disruptive sounds enter the environment. 
Anxiety was observed on several occassions during the assessment. The owner expressed and showed proper response to the anxiety by not reinforcing it, however the dog was unresponsive and maintained a moderate to high level of anxiety.

Summary:
It is in my professional opinion that "Bunker", a four month old Retreiver, is aggressive with anxiety as the base. The environment and the owners history with this dog show little to no influence over the dogs aggressive behavior. Through environmental observation and extensive history analysis, "Bunker" showed consistant behavioral patterns associated with aggression and anxiety that are more inate than learned. "Bunker appears to be pre-disposed to anxiety and the aggression is a manifistation of this anxiety. "Bunker" is not appropriate for his current environment and it is being recommended that he be sent back to the breeder."

i am told this will only get worse from all the experts. it scares me. most of the time, bunker is mellow and sweet. but he turns instantly and attacks the other dogs in the house. they are fixed and they are not separated. his anxiety is obvious. the first visit to the vet the vet told me there were problems. i did not believe her. all are telling me this will get worse no matter what i do and having him here with the other dogs is not good nor can i take him in public.

i am very disspointed in the breeder. i have learned i paid way way toooooooo much! also getting no help. she was also to refund money for meds for a skin problem the first week i had him. yes we have skin problems too. 

i don't want him to be put down. he needs a home with no dogs, no kids and someone that knows how to handle him.


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## Tanyac (Jun 18, 2008)

If professional opinion is that this is inate and not learned behaviour, then you may well have a growing and serious problem. If any medical causes are ruled out, my guess is that others from his litter may be the same, would be interesting to find that one out!

I don't know what I would advise, other than I would be concerned also, especially as you have this dog for his whole lifetime! If he's already attacking the adult dogs with no provocation at four months, what when he's fully grown? Nightmare scenario. Good luck, I hope others here might have something more positive to suggest. I think I'd take him back. Sorry!


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Is there a rescue in Florida close to you? maybe they would take him, work with him and find someone without kids/other animals for him?

Did he show any anxiety when you saw him at the breeder's or when you first got him?

We did puppy testing with loud noises, taking toys, food away etc at the breeders when we picked out our pups. Gunner tested non aggressive but also not shy, right in the middle like Selka did. BUT he developed aggressive behavior at about 6 months of age during our obedience class when there was a female dog he would growl at.

I find it terribly sad that neither the vet or behaviorists thought he could be worked with? For such a young dog that is horrible.


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

I am curious to hear why they thought he was a fear biter...
What do they think he is fearful of? To say he is fear aggressive is a bit too vague...
Some dogs dont like being touched, some dont like eye contact, some dont like other dogs...etc...etc....at 4 months most puppies can be helped...maybe not enough to be able to _enjoy_ competing, but certainly to be pets you can live with...
I am not saying their evaluation was wrong....just a bit vague...

Did they offer any suggestions for ways to rehab him if you decided to keep him as a pet not a competition dog?


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

sorry..I walked away then hit post....will go back and read now....


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## Ardeagold (Feb 26, 2007)

> i am told this will only get worse from all the experts. it scares me. most of the time, bunker is mellow and sweet. but he turns instantly and attacks the other dogs in the house. they are fixed and they are not separated. his anxiety is obvious. the first visit to the vet the vet told me there were problems. i did not believe her. all are telling me this will get worse no matter what i do and having him here with the other dogs is not good nor can i take him in public.


I had a dog for ten years that was exactly like that. And it doesn't get better....ever. The fights escalate and the dog would NOT stop even if on the ground, on his back. The instant he was let up......he went right for the throat....again.

As he got older (about two yrs old), and we realized this couldn't be "trained" out....he got removed to a separate part of the house. He had the whole upstairs to himself, and his niece (and us at night)....whom he did get along with. 

Fortunately, we had no children around, and have a very large house and a lot of land. He could go out with his niece and another female....and that's it. He would play with us, and all other humans...no problems ever. So, since we could "manage" his interaction with other dogs, we did that. 

However, in another setting....like a neighborhood...that couldn't happen. Not enough space.....too risky.

The only possibility is to find this dog a home where there are NO other dogs (Murphy LOVED cats...go figure).....NO kids (just in case), and someone who wants a constant "around the homestead" companion. Murphy was very loyal and loving to us...and like I said, loved ALL humans. Kids (when they'd visit) "activity" would make him tense after a very short while, so we'd remove him. He never got testy with children.....but he never got the chance to. A few calm pets....and he was put away.

We never realized that the two females were scared of him, until the day after he died (at age 10). They would all lounge around in the front driveway and fields....most of the day. But once he was gone, the two females became much more active, energetic and playful! It was like a weight was lifted off their shoulders. Now we know they didn't move much or do much because they were afraid they'd get attacked. They "behaved" and they were safe.

Dogs like this need that "perfect" home. They do exist....but it wouldn't be easy to find one. Most people don't want a dog that they have to worry will attack out of the blue, with no obvious reason. Some can handle that.....but honestly, most can't, and won't.

It isn't easy....unless the dog is a homebody, on a huge property, and has no way to get to other dogs/kids.....ever.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

I was feeling like the poor pup was being picked on, but as I read on, I realized that I had a dog who was very much like Ardeagold's, except she was a corgi/chow mix. She showed all the signs by the time she was 8-10 weeks old, even the vet told me that we had a very dominant puppy at that young age. We worked with her for 10 years and she continued to escalate her attacks on my lab, and had started getting even more aggressive to anyone who might need to come into our house (repairmen, etc.). She nipped a repairman about 3 months before I had to make the decision to have her put to sleep. It was the hardest thing I have ever had to do.

My dogs also breathed a huge sigh of relief once Maddie was no longer around. The cats, too. The whole household went into a relaxed state. We didn't realize how much she had made all of us so anxious until she was gone.

I am very sorry that you are having to go through this.


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## bunker's mom (Jul 15, 2008)

*I may need a rescue group in florida*

The breeder has yet to call me. I think i am on my own unless I take legal action. Is there anyone in Florida in rescue? will also post on rescue thread

thank you all


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## T&T (Feb 28, 2008)

I'M NO EXPERT BUT ISN'T BUNKER A LITTLE YOUNG TO BE LABELLED AS FEAR AGGRESSIVE ? DIFFERENT PUPPIES GO THRU SEVERAL DIFFERENT FEAR STAGES WHICH MUST BE DELT WITH. HERE'S JUST ONE BRIEF ARTICLE OF MANY MANY AVAILABLE ONLINE. I HAVE SEEN PUPPIES GROW OUT OF DIFFERENT FEARS. I THINK IT'S A LITTLE TOO SOON TO GIVE UP ON BUNKER. http://www.hsus.org/pets/pet_care/o...ehavior_tip_sheets/puppy_behavior_basics.html


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## Nicolle (Dec 25, 2007)

Here is a list of State by State Golden Retriever Rescue Groups. 

http://www.grca-nrc.org/Localrescues.htm

Deborah


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Would you wait till Flying Quizini gets a chance to see and respond to your thread? I don't think you have enough posts to PM her yet. I think she will have some suggestions for you, I hope!!!

Getting in touch with Florida rescues can't hurt, in fact they may have some suggestions for you besides surrendering your beloved pup!


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## bunker's mom (Jul 15, 2008)

*Thank you*

Thanks for all your help. I am so sad over this. I love the puppy. But we cannot live like this - fearing an attack...

the breeder has not called me yet or responded to my email. i have learned more about this breeder and don't like what i have learned. it is a shame. i have spoken with a respected breeder and she is shocked what has happened to us -- not just the fear aggression but the way the breeder has handled this. in addition she had promised to pay for meds for a skin issue when we first picked him - she has not. i mailed her copies of the bills as requested. no return email. so you know what i am dealing with. there also seems to be a lot of untrue advertising and stories she told us on the phone and our visits to her home. 

if she does not work with us, this story will get out


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

I PM'd Flying Quizini and asked her to read your post.She always has excellent advice for people here. I feel so bad for you and your pup. It's bad enough you have this horrible issue with your pup, then to find out the breeder was not truthful or ethical.

If neccessary, I pray you can find a rescue that will take and work with your pup.
He's in my prayers.


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## bunker's mom (Jul 15, 2008)

*It is so sad...*

I reached the Florida rescue and they cannot help me. The breeder is still not reachable. I cannot PM anyone yet due to I am new and not enough posts. I don't know what else to do. From most of the opinions, expert and layman, it does not look like I can help this puppy. I will not put him down. I know someone can handle him but I cannot find anyone. The breeder has more than disspointed me. I feel I was taken. I don't think she will like this getting out in the dog world of Florida. but I must warn others! I don't know what to do at this point. Can anyone on this forum take him? handle him? love him? I love him so...


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## Emma&Tilly (May 15, 2005)

I do hope someone can take this puppy on...I am convinced that no dog is 'born bad' and I am sure with some confident handling and commitment to training he will be a fantastic dog...is that him in your avatar bunkers mom? He is so beautiful.


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## Finn's Fan (Dec 22, 2007)

This article explains quite a bit about the outdated term "rage syndrome". Unfortunately, there are dogs for whom nothing can be done except euthanasia. Hopefully, you'll be able to find someone to take your pup and work with him, but obviously, he needs to be an only dog.

http://www.essfta.org/Health_Research/aggression.htm


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

What a shame..I do believe he is workable tho...I took in a dog who had the same issues. I was told he needed to be an only dog, took him to our trainer and even tho he couldnt stay here, because he didnt do well with Maggie, he did go to a home with 5 other dogs and is doing great with them.


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## bunker's mom (Jul 15, 2008)

*the assessment from one of the behaviorists*

i have copied his assessment below. yes, that bunker's photo on the avatar and there is another one posted. he is beautiful. this is hurting me so deeply. i am now being told to put him down. i cannot do that.

here is the assessment:

Owned since 9 weeks old.
Not fixed
In good physical health

Assessment:

On September 2, 2008, "Bunker", a 4 month old Retriever was assessed by Applied Behavioral Solutions, Inc. for possible aggression. 

The assessment of "Bunker" took two hours. The dog's diet, behavioral grooming, exercise habits, learning history, play habits, disciplinary efforts, human and animal relationships and environmental solcialization were all assessed and fully discussed with the pet owner. Over 80 interview questions were asked of the pet owner about the dogs history and present environment. The dog was also observed during this time for behavioral information, learned behaviors and behavioral habits. 
The initial assessment showed that the dog is being given an adequate diet with proper feeding schedules and amounts. No human food is being given and dog treats are distributed at a moderate to low rate for obedience type behaviors.
The initial assessment showed that the dog is being given moderate to high levels of constructive exercise through walks and additional physical stimulation.
The initial assessment showed that the dog has had constructive play that has not facilitated aggressive or anxiety based behavior.
The initial assessment showed that the dog has had minimal to moderate disciplinary responses to poor behavior. The owner has expressed a full understanding of compliance to recommendations given by trainers and training lituature in dealing with the dogs incorrect behavior. Even though some of the actions and reactions to the dogs incorrect behavior are not recommended techniques by Applied Behavioral Solutions, Inc., the assessment was unable to show that the disciplinary responses had any bearing on the dogs aggressive behavior.
The initial assessement showed that the dog has moderate to poor social interactions with the environment. Moderate to high levels of anxiety were observed at times and displaced aggression was also observed.

Issue:
The owner states the the dog has had moderate to high levels of aggression since early ownership. The owner also states that the dog shows anxiety in and out of context.
Aggression - The owner states the dog has physically aggressed over food based objects, removal of objects from the dogs possession and human body movement near the dogs prone body.
The owner states that the dog has made physical aggressive contact with the husband (hand bite), other dogs in home (facial, neck and torso bites) and with family friend (foot). The dog has also shown aggression at the vet clinic on examination.
Aggression was observed during the assessment, displaced on the other dog in the environment, during a moment of stress and anxiety (lawn mower outside).
Anxiety - The owner states that the dog consistantly shows fear and anxiety when loud, unusual or disruptive sounds enter the environment. 
Anxiety was observed on several occassions during the assessment. The owner expressed and showed proper response to the anxiety by not reinforcing it, however the dog was unresponsive and maintained a moderate to high level of anxiety.

Summary:
It is in my professional opinion that "Bunker", a four month old Retreiver, is aggressive with anxiety as the base. The environment and the owners history with this dog show little to no influence over the dogs aggressive behavior. Through environmental observation and extensive history analysis, "Bunker" showed consistant behavioral patterns associated with aggression and anxiety that are more inate than learned. "Bunker appears to be pre-disposed to anxiety and the aggression is a manifistation of this anxiety. "Bunker" is not appropriate for his current environment and it is being recommended that he be sent back to the breeder.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

Bunkers issues sound like the puppy I took in to a T. The lady who I got him from was told the same thing to put him down... I will say the puppy I took was 3 months old and when I picked him up from the airport, the next day he was at the trainers for 4 months if intense training. He still has some anxiety but its livable and he has come a long way.


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## dannyra (Aug 5, 2008)

By the way you have 15 posts now so I think you can PM members. Wish you lived closer to me as I'd gladly take him for a week if not longer. A complete change of environment might shake him up enough to snap out of it. Could make it worse, but at this point he doesn't have a lot to lose.


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## jlc's mom (Dec 21, 2007)

I feel so bad for you and the puppy. I know how you are feeling because I had to give my baby girl to rescue because dog agression back in Feb of this year. I hope you can find a new home for the puppy.


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

May I ask what you have done for socialization?? All this sounds like to me is lack of socializing. I just can't phathom a 4 month old this aggressive. It also really disappoints me that your breeder will not contact you (I think I have an idea of who it is) LOL but I could be wayyyy off. Did you have a written contract? if so what did it state regarding her taking back the dog or you placing it in a rescue or diffrent home? If you have contacted trainers and feel like you have done all you can then yes try to put him into some other qualified persons care.n As I do ato believe this is workable in the right hands.


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## bunker's mom (Jul 15, 2008)

*Ohhh*



Ash said:


> May I ask what you have done for socialization?? All this sounds like to me is lack of socializing. I just can't phathom a 4 month old this aggressive. It also really disappoints me that your breeder will not contact you (I think I have an idea of who it is) LOL but I could be wayyyy off. Did you have a written contract? if so what did it state regarding her taking back the dog or you placing it in a rescue or diffrent home? If you have contacted trainers and feel like you have done all you can then yes try to put him into some other qualified persons care.n As I do ato believe this is workable in the right hands.


I have socialized him - but could only really start after the immunizations were complete which was not long ago. I have walked him in the neighborhood, had people over, visited petco... was going to puppy class, then obedience and on to agility but not now. told he would not be allowed. i could not trust him. the breeder, well... will disclose monday if she does not respond. the contract, which i signed when we picked up the puppy with many distractions, i never read, is pretty ironclad. no refunds no replacement puppies. she has obviously had problems before. florida does have a lemon law. may do that. i don't want to go the legal route... i want a normal male golden retriever. i love him and this is making me ill! i have never had this problem before. never had to give a dog up or return one. i am contacting all rescues i can. this hurts so much, i am losing a baby and i have to hope he gets the right home. this is a very good home for a dog... it is so sad. i am having a very difficult time with this. i wish there was a way i could keep him and fix this,


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## AndyFarmer (Jul 9, 2007)

Bunkers Mom,

Dirks fund has agreed to take Bunker, work with him and find him a new home. We are located in St Louis, Missouri, so if we can get a transport together to get him up here, we'd be glad to help.

Please pm me if you can work with us.
Thanks!!
Jill


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

What about anxiety medication? I know many dogs who have anxiety have been helped with meds. Are you or your vet willing to try this?

Have you contacted other rescues in Florida or is there only one? What about other rescues in Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina? Can we as GRF arrange a rescue /transport for this pup to a new home etc?

I PM'd Flying Quizini for you but apparently Steph must be out of town etc. I was hoping she'd have some positive help for you.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Thanks Jill!!!!! We were writing at the same time! How wonderful! Hopefully a transport can be arranged for this baby!!!


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## AndyFarmer (Jul 9, 2007)

Debles said:


> Thanks Jill!!!!! We were writing at the same time! How wonderful! Hopefully a transport can be arranged for this baby!!!


 
Yeah me too! I'd love to drive to Alabama again!  Ohhhhh Hoooooooch?????


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## maiapup (Nov 22, 2007)

Can you tell me the name/location of the behaviorist that saw the puppy? 
Thanks,


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

We have no problems what so ever taken Bunker in..... Lets work on a way to get him up here. Im on my way to talk to our trainer and if Bunker can be helped I have no doubt our trainer can do it.....


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

Wow, once again this forum is pulling together to help a family and puppy we've never met and probably never will. It's awesome to watch this group in action. I pray we can put together a transport to get Bunker the help he needs. It's so sad that this little guy has such issues at such a tender age, and that his breeder is nowhere to be found, leaving the burden of dealing with all of this to his loving family.


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## nixietink (Apr 3, 2008)

This board is amazing!!
I'd love to help, unfortunately wrong side of the country.


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## bunker's mom (Jul 15, 2008)

*wow you are amazing people*

I did give the breeder two days to respond - that was this morning. so i don't want to anything where she can come after me legally. her contract states she has to get first right before giving to a rescue. I have called her and emailed her for five days, now gave her a deadline. need to cover my a..

please know i appreciate all the help. this is breaking my heart big time. i am very attached to him, as he is to me. he is my shadow. this is the most difficult thing i have ever done. it is sad, he has to move and adjust and he will miss me and i will not have my puppy that i wanted so much and love so much.

thanks again, will have to wait for her to not respond.

i am in central florida. of course we are having another tropical storm and possibly a hurricane next week. so transport issues can arise.


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## AndyFarmer (Jul 9, 2007)

bunker's mom said:


> I did give the breeder two days to respond - that was this morning. so i don't want to anything where she can come after me legally. her contract states she has to get first right before giving to a rescue. I have called her and emailed her for five days, now gave her a deadline. need to cover my a..
> 
> please know i appreciate all the help. this is breaking my heart big time. i am very attached to him, as he is to me. he is my shadow. this is the most difficult thing i have ever done. it is sad, he has to move and adjust and he will miss me and i will not have my puppy that i wanted so much and love so much.
> 
> ...


I pm'd you then saw this post, so just hang on to my pm if needed.


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## bunker's mom (Jul 15, 2008)

*the behaviorist was*

It was asked who was the behaviorist - it was

Assessed by: Dan Talbert, Animal Behavior Specialist
Melbourne, fl 

also by Bark Busters.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

bunker's mom said:


> I did give the breeder two days to respond - that was this morning. so i don't want to anything where she can come after me legally. her contract states she has to get first right before giving to a rescue. I have called her and emailed her for five days, now gave her a deadline. need to cover my a..
> 
> please know i appreciate all the help. this is breaking my heart big time. i am very attached to him, as he is to me. he is my shadow. this is the most difficult thing i have ever done. it is sad, he has to move and adjust and he will miss me and i will not have my puppy that i wanted so much and love so much.
> 
> ...


I agree that you need to give the breeder the time you stated....


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

I would make sure if she wants him that she is NOT going to put him down.


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## AndyFarmer (Jul 9, 2007)

Debles said:


> I would make sure if she wants him that she is NOT going to put him down.


Good point.


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## bunker's mom (Jul 15, 2008)

*Really good point*

However, I doubt I will ever hear from her. That would make me nervous to think she may put him down. No way! I assume the Missouri Gang would never put him down?! 

Thanks all. How can we set up a transport? I have not been involved with anything like this before. 

I want Bunker to be in a loving and caring home that has the experience and knowledge on how to handle his problem. He is very smart and sweet most of the time. The vet just gave me a prescription for some type of anxiety meds. Not sure if i should give it to him. any opinions?

thanks all
carol


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Maggies mom said:


> Bunkers issues sound like the puppy I took in to a T. The lady who I got him from was told the same thing to put him down... I will say the puppy I took was 3 months old and when I picked him up from the airport, the next day he was at the trainers for 4 months if intense training. He still has some anxiety but its livable and he has come a long way.


Morgan? I remember Morgan. I'm so glad he's doing so well. What a wonderful offer from Dirk's to work with Bunker, too!


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

bunker's mom said:


> However, I doubt I will ever hear from her. That would make me nervous to think she may put him down. No way! I assume the Missouri Gang would never put him down?!
> 
> Thanks all. How can we set up a transport? I have not been involved with anything like this before.
> 
> ...


The only time we have ever put down a dog was a. he was very sick and in pain and there wasnt anything else we could do and b. we had a dog that bit 3 times without warning and the person required stitches. It is a last resort after all avenues were explored.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

As for the transport , we post a thread out there looks for any members on the route from you to us that is willing to take a leg to drive.


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## bunker's mom (Jul 15, 2008)

*Transport*

however we can help, we sure will. We could drive up to Tallahassee, Jacksonville or further if needed. 

Thanks for reassuring me that he will be well cared for. I looked at the site and you do amazing work!


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

Oh, yeah, Dirk's Fund is awesome. They have come through for so many dogs when no one else would or could. Awesome group.


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## AndyFarmer (Jul 9, 2007)

bunker's mom said:


> however we can help, we sure will. We could drive up to Tallahassee, Jacksonville or further if needed.
> 
> Thanks for reassuring me that he will be well cared for. I looked at the site and you do amazing work!


Oh! You can go to Jacksonville?? Case solved! BeauShel wanted to come to St Louis anyway, so here's her chance LOL  j/k


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

Jackson'sMom said:


> Oh, yeah, Dirk's Fund is awesome. They have come through for so many dogs when no one else would or could. Awesome group.


Thanks... we try our best... we cant save them all but we try to get as many as we can.... we went the other day got 6 dogs and in he process a turkey attacked us and the horse bit me in the butt...... :uhoh::uhoh::uhoh:but thats another whole story.


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## AndyFarmer (Jul 9, 2007)

Oh come on Mary, you had me in stitches...tell the story!!!! Give these folks a good visual LOL


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

Yeah, I'm in my office chuckling at the thought of someone being attacked by a turkey and bitten in the butt by a horse! Tell us the whole story, please!


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

What is the med? Is it Acepromazine? That is the tranquilizer my boy takes for anxiety.
It won't hurt him, makes him sleepy/laid back. It will make his bottom eyelids droop and look weird so don't be freaked out. Gunner stsill trembles /pants during a storm but he is much better than if he doesn't take it!

If you can't keep the dog separated till they can transport him, you may need to give it to him. Hopefully the vet gave you a puppy dose.

How long did you give the breeder? Now I hope you don't hear from her. She doesn't sound very ethical to me. I would be very afraid she would try to pawn him off on someone without telling the truth. or put him down. I'm so glad Dirk's Fund will take him!!! You guys in MO. are saints!


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Anybody got a Wonder Woman suit for Mary? Attacked by a turkey and bit in the butt by a horse, and still walked away with 6 dogs that needed rescue! 

WONDER WOMAN! dadadada da dat da da


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## Old Gold Mum2001 (Feb 25, 2007)

Ash said:


> May I ask what you have done for socialization?? All this sounds like to me is lack of socializing. I just can't phathom a 4 month old this aggressive. It also really disappoints me that your breeder will not contact you (I think I have an idea of who it is) LOL but I could be wayyyy off. Did you have a written contract? if so what did it state regarding her taking back the dog or you placing it in a rescue or diffrent home? If you have contacted trainers and feel like you have done all you can then yes try to put him into some other qualified persons care.n As I do ato believe this is workable in the right hands.


Kinda sounds like something may have happened at the breeders. Had a pup that was very well socialized, and very aggressive by 2.5-3 months old, very bonded and protective of me. (He picked me when I was looking at all the pups, climbed right up in my lap and stayed there) He loved everybody, unless they came near me, as time went by that included my kids  
He was fine with anyone and everyone coming up to pet him, play with him, we took him everywhere with us. We walked along busy streets, strolled thru the woods, had free run time in fields, he loved parades, howled with the firetrucks, police cars and ambulances. By 3 months of age he knew all his basic commands to a T, including hand signals, and was basically trained for some search and rescue (we'd "lose" Tony in the woods, he'd find him every time) he could get Tony out of a secured crate, whatever item you had in your hand, showed him then hid it, he'd find it anywhere you hid it.) He was a dream dog!!! One night we sat here and watched a scary movie, all of a sudden he went nuts barking at the tv, the monster was coming and he knew it! Every time I watched it, he did the same thing at the same part. Smart doggie  I was in heaven with this boy, dreaming of all the things we could do, and try, he was a learning sponge! Then while out walking one day, he lunged at a person walking by. Someone came into my yard one time, a teen looking for the previous tenant of mine, I didn't even have time to blink and my dog was right there sitting in between us, watching the teen. I knew if the he moved Josh would attack him. He got to the point where no one could come near/touch me. Vet didn't even trust him, was impressed with how well he was trained at such a young age, but wouldn't see him without being sedated or muzzled. Josh did not like to be touched by the vet in the least! Suggested a training behaviorist (sp) they said the same thing, fear aggression. I still can not comprehend it! Vet said pup had probably gone thru something very traumatic, which had to have been before 7 weeks of age, as that is when we got him. He went to S&R but didn't make it due to being part pit  

So maybe pup went thru something at the breeders to make him this way. 

Mary, you rock!!!!!! I know you guys can help this pup!!! If Josh can make it, so can this pup


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## AndyFarmer (Jul 9, 2007)

*Mary = Wonder Woman???*

Like this??? LOL oooppppssss...Mary is a blonde!


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

andyfarmer said:


> like This??? Lol


Ummmmmmmmmmmmmm Nottttttttttttttttttt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## maiapup (Nov 22, 2007)

If the breeder you got the dog from is a member of a local golden retriever club (or GRCA) you might want to file a complaint with them just so they are aware and yes, you need to check on the puppy lemon law. Here is the info on the lemon law in Florida regarding pets.

http://www.bcrescue.org/puppyregs.html

I'm not familiar with the person you saw for the evaluation. I'm only aware of 2 Animal Behaviorists in Florida, one in Jacksonville and one at the University of Florida/Gainesville.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

AndyFarmer said:


> Oh come on Mary, you had me in stitches...tell the story!!!! Give these folks a good visual LOL


I found a picture of a turkey that looks like the one that attacked us.....


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## AndyFarmer (Jul 9, 2007)

Yummmmmyyyyyyy, Thanksgiving!!!!! ROFL


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## bunker's mom (Jul 15, 2008)

*began filing complaints*

I did email today all the officers and committee chairs for the membership and puppy referral in the mid-florida chapter. I informed them of the practices of this breeder. She does not know it, but I am a paralegal. (I know i as not too smart with this purchase) I do have the statute and may bring this further. I am angry and so so saddened by this. I look at his beautiful face and just cry now. What I want more than anything is to make sure she cannot keep doing this to puppies and people!


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

I hope you will pursue the legal aspect, as long as it does not mean putting Bunker to sleep. If you can stop this breeder from breeding this kind of temperment you will be doing a great service to future puppies.


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## bunker's mom (Jul 15, 2008)

*Will do all i can*

I will do all i can to stop her from doing this again and again. It has made me afraid to adopt another one - not to mention the large amount of money that was lost on this one. I now will lose my precious puppy and not be in a position to get another one - mentally or financially. But i will not stop going after her! Complaints will be filed with the Better Business Bureau, Florida Division of Consumer Affairs, possible law suit, any Golden Retriever club in Florida, the AKC, anything I can do, I will do! No more pain for the puppies or the families!


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## LOVEisGOLDEN (Jan 4, 2008)

I'm so sorry you are going through this! He sounds exactly like our last Border Collie. Riley showed aggressive tendencies at 11 weeks & only escalated from there. I did everything I could for him (I'm a certified Dog Obedience Instructor/animal behavior specialist) and he only got worse. Our evaluations (I had several done with persons unfamiliar to myself) read very close to yours. only the bottom line was euthanasia rather than return to breeder.

I was ready to turn him into a hermit & let him live out his days here, until he began targeting children. I then moved him to a farm where he is worked on sheep & cattle daily & is doing better. They have no other dogs, very few visitors, no children for miles, & he never leaves the farm. He has been there for a year & so far so good. I still dread the call though...


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*LoveisGolden*

LoveIsGolden:

So glad that your Border Collie is on a farm and being cared for.

How did you find the people with the farm for him?


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

dannyra said:


> By the way you have 15 posts now so I think you can PM members. Wish you lived closer to me as I'd gladly take him for a week if not longer. A complete change of environment might shake him up enough to snap out of it. Could make it worse, but at this point he doesn't have a lot to lose.


I agree with this...I have had a few fosters who didnt do well at my house and they were anti social, got into fights, etc and once they went to a different foster home it was like a whole different dog.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I can't believe that this same pup is now being resold by his breeder- did I get that right? ???? I hope it's some kind of crazy mistake made by me, bc if it's true it's just so unspeakably unethical.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

Ljilly28 said:


> I can't believe that this same pup is now being resold by his breeder- did I get that right? ???? I hope it's some kind of crazy mistake made by me, bc if it's true it's just so unspeakably unethical.


No ... your not mistaken.... the breeder did resale Bunker.


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## AndyFarmer (Jul 9, 2007)

Ljilly28 said:


> I can't believe that this same pup is now being resold by his breeder- did I get that right? ???? I hope it's some kind of crazy mistake made by me, bc if it's true it's just so unspeakably unethical.


Couldn't have said it better myself.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

OK, I'm nuts or I missed something. Jill, how did you find out the dog went back to the breeder and was resold? Last I read, he was to be transported to Dirk's Fund! I must be missing some posts. This horrendous. Do we know if the new owners know about his fear aggression etc? I am sick about this.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

I just saw the other thread.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

I pray that Bunkers new parents do know about his problem before they adopted him. I would hate for him to pay the ultimate price because of the breeders greed. Hopefully he is going to have a fun and loved full life. It just makes me sick knowing that Bunker's Mom came for help and the breeder agreed to do the right thing and then lied.


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