# He Got A Good Bite On Me - What now?



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> How do I make it clear after the fact that what he did was very wrong?


You can't. You can watch for the next opportunity and make the correction then. 

One rule I had with our first two goldens who could be crabby redheads... the slightest nose wrinkle or growl and you need to be quick with the "NO!" and the "SHAME ON YOU." 

Um...

Personally speaking, I don't think ANY dog should have a bunch of kids lying on him, even if he weren't growling and biting. Because dogs are dogs, even if they are golden retrievers. It is asking for trouble, so please make it clear to the little ones in your family that they sit and lay on the furniture, not the dog. 

The growling/possessive behavior you fix by trading - ALL OF THE TIME. You do not ever take something from the dog without giving him a reward. And use the "Trade" word. Ask him what he's got and then tell him in a chirpy voice to come trade. 

I do not believe that this is something you put a dog to sleep over, but it does require steady and responsible ownership, prevention, and training.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

You can't discipline after the fact, he won't connect the punishment with his prior behavior.

As Megora said you need to start teaching him to trade with you, he has something you offer him something of more value to him in place of what he has.

Next time you need to move him don't grab his collar, call him to you or offer a treat to get him to move away from the area. You can also leave a leash on his collar and when you call him or offer the treat use the leash guide him to you. Start working on teaching him to come when you call, that will be a big help in this type of situation.

Any kind of harsh punishment for snapping or growling will probably make him escalate.


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## GoldenOwner (Nov 12, 2010)

Thank you for the responses. 

Is there any reason in teaching him how to 'trade' rather than 'drop' what he has? I understand he is more likely to want to trade, as he is receiving something new, but there are situations where 'drop' would be nice (on a walk where he picks up garbage, etc.)

'Come' is definitely a command high on our priority list to teach him. It's hard to find time as we are an active family of 6 (7 including the dog), but I would not want him to snap like this on one of the younger kids, or grandma. 

Are there any preferred dog training guides? Or is using the first results on Google (usually eHow) alright too?


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> Is there any reason in teaching him how to 'trade' rather than 'drop' what he has? I understand he is more likely to want to trade, as he is receiving something new, but there are situations where 'drop' would be nice (on a walk where he picks up garbage, etc.)


When I teach my guy "Trade", I generally do the run to the kitchen with him and then tell him to spit. 

The important thing with your dog if you aren't sure of how turfy he will be, after he spits, you throw the treat for him and that's the point when you reach down and pick up the spitted object. I don't want him trying to get both the treat and his treasure. 

The treat I usually use for trade is a slice of bread. It's a high value trade for my dogs and it's an instant "spit". <- I've had my dogs spit up pork chop bones for a slice of bread.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

I would suggest you get him to like having his collar touched and then grabbed. You can do this many ways.

A few ways:
Put out a target or toy that he likes. Take him by the collar several feet away and kind of bend your knees while saying Reeeady, Steeeady, GOOOOOO' releasing the collar on Goooo so he shoots out for the target or toy. This is similar to a restrained recall if you have worked that.

Prime a clicker, and then touch the collar, C/T. Put a finger on the collar C/T etc. work up to a grab.

Collar games are fun and important for all dogs, but especially dogs that might be reactive. Basically you use all kinds of touching of the collar to first mean nothing bad is happening, and work up to having the collar touched means fun is on the way.

Good luck


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## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

Trade, trade, trade. Get him used to the idea that he'll get something for 'leaving it' - much more motivating than just telling him to leave his prize. 

Teach him to associate getting grabbed/goosed with treats, like above. You can also start with poking him in the butt and feeding him when he turns, and move up to grabbing the collar and treating him.

Do not let the kids lie on him even if he seems fine with it. He may put up with it for now and suddenly decide he's had enough one day. Or, the kids will try to lie on someone's dog who is not so forgiving - either way the kids are at risk. 

Sounds like he needs some work too on doorways. Put him on leash, go to the door and open it, and then feed him inside with the door open. Shut the door. Repeat. Teach him to NOT rush out the door but rather wait for your cue to go through the doorways, and not to assume an open door means he should bust through like a steam train. Manners please!

You may want to also try 'nothing in life is free' with him and consult a good trainer in your area to work on things as well, before it gets any worse.

And we need pictures!

Lana


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

Good suggestions from everyone else. Some other things I would also add to the suggestions are:

Some of the reasons for trading for things is not just for when he gets something he will be more likely to give it especially since he has been so possessive in the past. Also it will help since you have kids in the home as kids like to take things from the dog. You need to train them to also give him treats to take something from him and to NEVER take things from him. Keep a treat jar out on the counter just for him to use for the training. 

Dont grab the dogs collar, for right now, I would keep a leash on him or one close by and when you know someone is going to be leaving the house put the leash on him so to avoid grabbing the collar. Some dogs look at that as a sign of aggression as dogs in fights go for the neck. 

Start with using NILIF Nothing in life is free. You can find a wealth of information on the web about it. One member had a similar problem in the past that was actually alittle worse and Tippykayak had the best information on how to handle it. This would be good for you also.

"Particularly with puppies, you can place them into a submissive position to help enforce your status as dominant. It does work. Older dogs do safely pin _puppies_ when they get out of control and the body language and sound the older dog is using doesn't get through to the puppy. It's one of the ways they teach puppies how to understand the language of interaction. If the adult dog is well-socialized, the actual pinning would happen very rarely, if at all, since most of the teaching takes place through growling, showing teeth, or lunging (when the dog snaps at the puppy but intentionally doesn't make contact).

Unfortunately, making your pup see you as dominant does not actually make the dog obey you, so the usefulness of that is limited, particularly if the roll is used as punishment. You can do it as part of your handling of the puppy when it's small, but doing it suddenly or holding the neck hard does more to frighten the dog than to communicate your status. It doesn't even work that well as a negative stimulus (for biting, for example), since the dog's probably at least a little afraid during the roll and unlikely to be able to make strong associations. By the time you actually have the dog on its back, the original behavior has passed and she's focused on a scary confrontation with you.

Adult dogs communicate pack status mostly with body language and some with sound, and in a confrontation, when they bite the neck, they're usually there to do damage, not to make a point. When you grab the neck or force the dog down in a situation where you're communicating any kind of anger with your voice, body language, or smell, you may trigger anxiety or defensiveness in the dog. An already anxious dog, when grabbed or rolled, will become exponentially more anxious. I was myself once bitten by a friend's Golden in exactly that kind of situation.

Having read your original story carefully, I think Jo Jo was anxiously, not dominantly, defending her food, and when you grabbed her, she was afraid and defended herself. Did she need to? No. But she was already, in her head, in a scary confrontation over the food, and she may have interpreted the grab as an attempt to hurt her, even though it obviously wasn't.

I wasn't there, but based on what you've said, my guess is that Jo Jo's problem has very little to do with dominance and a whole lot to do with insecurity. When you challenge an insecure dog, they go into a defensive state, which is dangerous. When you confront her physically, you raise the stakes of the situation, which is leading to more growling and now a bite. Some dogs are just bratty, and confronting them to establish yourself as a leader might be helpful. A dog who shows her teeth when you try to pet her is wound really tight. There's no reason related to dominance that she would behave like that. If she's fearful, nervous, and wound up, that's _exactly_ what she would do.

I think the solution here will be to find ways to drain that nervous energy from situations. Physical correction or confrontation, at this point, will probably just add that bad kind of energy and make everything worse. I would start with the food aggression and create a controlled environment to practice it. First, go give her a ton of exercise before any practice sessions. A tired dog has a hard time getting as wound up as a well-rested one.

Second, feed her meals a small handful at a time from your own hand. If she growls or otherwise exhibits intolerable behavior, stop feeding for a minute and then try again. Nice behavior opens the hand, growling closes the hand and raises it up above her head, out of reach. During meals, ask her periodically for a sit, a lie down, or whatever little trick you like and reward her with the next handful.

If she takes to this well for a few meals, which she should, let other family members feed her this way. Take turns. I wouldn't let a child do this at first, in case she gets aggressive, but once she has the hang of it, it's important to let the kids in her life play this role. If it's at all feasible, all of her meals should happen this way for a while. Once she calms down, you can start dropping the food a handful at a time into the bowl and eventually try to get back to regular feeding. This is a great way to establish your leadership and make her calmer around her food, and it doesn't involve the kind of confrontation that might trigger that self-defensive state.

Take all physical punishments and threatening movements out of her training and correction. You don't want to be grabbing her collar with a sudden movement or otherwise engaging in behavior that's going to trigger her anxiety reactions. Remember, you're not avoiding this because she's dominating you. You're avoiding it because the dog has gotten it into her head that she's in danger of a *fight*, potentially to the death, with a bigger dog and she has to defend her physical safety. You need to teach her she's wrong, and the only way to do that is with low-key, non-physical techniques.

Keep your voice quiet and low when you do need to chastise. Yelling at all will add nervousness but not communicate any more clearly than a quiet, firm voice.

A behaviorist is a great idea, but I'd run the other way if one says you need to be rougher on the dog. A good behaviorist will see that she's anxious and will help you develop techniques that work for your family."


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

I'm just going to add to the "never grab a dog's collar" crowd. Ranger was abused in the past and he didn't like his collar being touched in the beginning. He never growled, but you could tell he had bad memories associated with it. So, I didn't touch his collar in anything but a GOOD way for the first 9 months I had him. I started with simultaneous touching (not grabbing) his collar while luring him with a cookie so he was more focused on the cookie than on his collar being touched. I desensitized him by brushing him around his neck area and moving the collar to get underneath it - he loooves getting brushed so this was the easiest way to get him to start liking his collar getting touched. I'd scratch him under his collar...anything I could do to get him to LIKE having a hand near his collar or touching it. Eventually, a hand by his collar started becoming a GOOD thing and then we started making games. I'd pull him around by his collar and get him all revved up, then throw a toy. Or I'd gently grab his collar and direct his attention to a squirrel, then release him (the squirrels didn't like that game too much). 

In the meantime, I was thinking of situations where I'd _think _I'd have to use his collar for a negative association and then managing it. For example, lots of people grab the dog by the collar to pull them off the couch or bed. My solution was to teach Ranger the word "off" so I'd never have to use his collar. I'd put him on a bus bench and tell him "off". First I guided him by using the leash, then I'd say "off" and do nothing. When he jumped off on his own, he got a cookie. I was PLANNING for the day when he was on the couch and I wanted him off. (I also never let him up on the couch in the first place so we didn't have to deal with that either).

Another one is for when a dog doesn't want to go outside; people will grab the collar to try to "force" the dog out. So, Ranger learned "outside". To teach this, I opened the back door and kept Ranger inside in a sitting position. Then I threw a toy and said "outside" as Ranger went through the doorway. Getting the toy was a self-reward. Pretty soon, I could say "outside" and he'd run out on his own without the toy so I'd reward with a cookie. There's the occasional time when Ranger doesn't want to go outside (if it's raining) and "outside" is only good enough to get his front paws out the door. When that's the case, instead of grabbing his collar, I go out quickly and he follows, then I step back inside.

If you're grabbing his collar because he doesn't respect the threshold of the door, it's time to teach him to sit and wait while the front door gets opened. While you're teaching that in short sessions throughout the day, for management's sake, you can use a leash attached to his collar to prevent any risk of him escaping OR of you thinking you need to grab the collar as a preventative measure.

Really spend the next few days, weeks, months on making a hand near the collar a GOOD thing and in the meantime work on verbal cues to get the behaviours you want without resorting to grabbing the collar. I think grabbing the collar to get the dog to do something is akin to yelling in someone's face; they're going to get mad either because they didn't understand what you were wanting them to do (since they've never been taught) or you didn't ask politely first. When you ask someone to get you a cup of coffee at work, you don't yell at them...and you don't yell at them when they don't know HOW to make a cup of coffee yet either.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

I agree with everything others have said about NILIF. 
Maybe if he has an issue with trying to get out when people come and go, he should be leashed and corrected. My dogs do sit stays when people are coming and going.

Lots of trading and training.


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