# Training a ball obsessed dog to bring it back



## tlvgolden (Oct 23, 2017)

We got our 9 m/o dog a few weeks ago, and every morning I take him to a very large dog park (about 1/2 acre, and we're the only ones there) to play fetch and get energy out before I go to work.

He LOVES tennis balls. He loves all toys actually, and if I throw any toy in the house he will go to get it, but in the park, only tennis balls will do. We do not play with tennis balls in the house, since they roll under the furniture constantly, so they're strictly a park thing.
The problem is, when he gets the ball, he has no desire to give it back. 

Until now, I had usually just tricked him by throwing something else (a pebble, etc.), and he would take off after that and leave the ball so that I can pick it up and throw it again. 
However, he's totally wised up now, and that doesn't work anymore (it wasn't something I hoped to do for the long term anyhow). He's also very uninterested in giving the ball up - he will run away, and even if you were to catch him, he'd try his hardest not to let you have it. So far not aggressively, but I don't want to keep pulling it from his mouth and leading to that. I've been working on "drop it" with him during tug, and he's getting really good at that, but it doesn't seem to translate at all to the ball.

I've tried the two tennis ball method, the issue is that he will just drop the other ball where he picked it up, and come back without it to wait for me to throw the second tennis ball. Or he has a favorite of the two identical tennis balls, don't ask me how.

I've also tried on a long line, but the result is me having to physically drag him to me, and then fighting for the ball. I don't see that as constructive at all. He has absolutely no interest in food or anything else during these sessions to try and trade.

Just to give an idea of the ball obsession, once I cut a long line session short because of this, and put the ball in my pocket while he wasn't looking so we could switch to working on other skills, but he had no focus at all, he just frantically searched for the ball. Once he realized it was in my pocket, that was all he would focus on, and wouldn't go through obedience work with me, which he usually likes. 

As of now, I'm not throwing the ball for him in the park anymore, because I feel like it's just reinforcing bad habits. I've tried bringing a tug instead, but he has no interest in it there, and just spends his time searching for the ball (which I didn't bring). He has found balls left behind by other people before, so this behavior has been reinforced.

I'm at a loss. I really want him to get his excess energy out in the mornings, and I think fetch is really the best way to do that, but I want it to be a positive game that's strengthening our relationship, which it clearly isn't now. I also need to find a way to overcome his ball obsession, since at this point I could never count on his recall if, for example, someone was throwing a ball nearby. This is fairly common on the beach, etc. 

Is there any hope for us? 
To the more experienced training people here, where would you start with this problem?

I've always taught fetch to my dogs as younger puppies, when they still have the desire to return to you making it easier. Right now, I could completely leave the park and go home, and Archer would not bat an eyelash as long as he had his ball.


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## Atis (Jul 8, 2014)

This reads exactly as if you were writing about my boy David, loves the ball, loves chasing it, doesn't want to give it back. After spending a lot of time trying to get it and resorting as you said wrestling from him I finally realized that as far as he was concerned that was part of the game. What worked for me was to simply make it clear that I was not going to play the game this way. When he comes back with it I simply simply hold my arms behind my back making it very clear I am not going for it and say "out" and wait for him to drop it. Eventually he'll start dancing about all upset that I'm not playing with him even stepping closer and nudging me to play. I'll hold firm and keep saying out even turn away from him if needed. Eventually he'll give up and drop it so he can bark at me. I'll then immediately call out "good boy" reach down and throw the ball as a reward for doing a good job. Eventually your boy will get it too. Now if I could only get him to put it in my hand that would be nice, but I decided this was good enough. He's quite consistent about it now. Good luck.


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## tlvgolden (Oct 23, 2017)

Atis said:


> This reads exactly as if you were writing about my boy David, loves the ball, loves chasing it, doesn't want to give it back. After spending a lot of time trying to get it and resorting as you said wrestling from him I finally realized that as far as he was concerned that was part of the game. What worked for me was to simply make it clear that I was not going to play the game this way. When he comes back with it I simply simply hold my arms behind my back making it very clear I am not going for it and say "out" and wait for him to drop it. Eventually he'll start dancing about all upset that I'm not playing with him even stepping closer and nudging me to play. I'll hold firm and keep saying out even turn away from him if needed. Eventually he'll give up and drop it so he can bark at me. I'll then immediately call out "good boy" reach down and throw the ball as a reward for doing a good job. Eventually your boy will get it too. Now if I could only get him to put it in my hand that would be nice, but I decided this was good enough. He's quite consistent about it now. Good luck.


This is how our last dog was, for a while, where he did want me to chase him, as part of the game. But with Archer, he's perfectly happy to just lay there chewing on the ball, and I could (and have, just to see) leave the park and go out of his line of sight, and he wouldn't even move. Outside of the park he's pretty bonded with me, at least for a dog we've only had for a few weeks, but inside the park, it's only him and his ball


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Yes there is hope! My lab mix was like that when he first came to us at about a year old, it took some time, but he did learn to bring the ball back, and drop it. Rather than not giving him a ball in the house, we gave him several, just left them laying about, but didn't play fetch in the house at all. He would pick one up and play with it himself, sometimes lose it, and we would have to help him get it out from where ever it was stuck, and give it back to him. and yes, once he had chosen 'his' ball no other ball would do. We would take a ball out in the yard, throw it for him, he would get it and not come back, so we just let him have it, made like we were not interested in his ball at all. In time, as he got to know us and trust us, our relationship with him grew stronger, he became more attached to us, he would come with it, for which he would get lots of praise, but he wouldn't drop it - so we would walk away. Over time he learned that playing ball by himself was not as much fun as playing ball with us and was more willing to 'share' his ball and 'drop it' on cue, and was able to trust that we would not 'take it' from him, but if he gave it to us, he would always get it back. 

Try to see the situation through Archer's eyes. He is new to you, is still adapting to his new life, and still learning to trust you, so he is not sure he is going to get the ball (a high value toy) back. Consider just letting him carry the ball at the dog park, (for now) if that is what he likes to do, you can still encourage him to move, to walk with you, follow you or chase you and get some exercise that way. At home highly reinforce, lots of praise, perhaps a high value treat, when he brings anything to you, let him know that he is a good boy. 
I suspect your relationship just needs more time, you can't rush these things, time for him to get to know you, time for you to get to know him better, and to develop that partnership that will continue to grow throughout his life.


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## tlvgolden (Oct 23, 2017)

Charliethree - this gives me hope! I think that I often forget just how briefly we've had him - it feels like forever to me. I think it's also hard because I sometimes compare him to our dog who passed away in July at 14 months old. I try really hard not to, but occasionally I just expect the same bond to be there and for him to know the same things our past dog did, despite the fact that months and months of training went into teaching him those things. Archer came with almost no obedience training (a good intentioned first-time owner with not enough time), so I really can't expect too much from him yet. Thank you for the reminder  I hope it's possible that we're able to build a relationship like I've had with a puppies I took at 9 weeks.

I think I'll just focus more on obedience basics and maybe add a few tennis balls to our house. Do you worry about choking or wear on their teeth? Those are the main reasons I haven't had them in the house besides them rolling under furniture.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

Treats! When he brings it back, have a treat ready, and say drop it, and put the treat near his nose. When he drops, give the treat as you pick up the ball. Treat every time for the first several sessions, then start treating every other drop, and then slowly stretch it out and mix it up. Eventually, you'll be able to phase out the treating.


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## tlvgolden (Oct 23, 2017)

Sweet Girl said:


> Treats! When he brings it back, have a treat ready, and say drop it, and put the treat near his nose. When he drops, give the treat as you pick up the ball. Treat every time for the first several sessions, then start treating every other drop, and then slowly stretch it out and mix it up. Eventually, you'll be able to phase out the treating.


The problem is, when it comes to the ball, he has no interest in treats. Even really good and smelly treats like lamb or liverwurst holds no interest for him then. Even if I were to put the ball up, he still has no interest in treats until he gets the ball back. It's funny, because for our normal training sessions I can just use his kibble as treats, that's how food driven he normally is. It seems like once he's into toy mode, food becomes irrelevant.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Can understand where you are coming from, hard to imagine what life was like before they arrived! So sorry for the loss of your pup, and yes it is hard not to compare, but they come to us, ask only that we make room in our hearts for them, love them for 'who' they are, and in turn fill our lives with new adventures and new joy.

We have the large Kong AirDog squeaker balls, they are pretty tough and not abrasive on their teeth. Joseph loves the squeaky ones, he doesn't chew on them just carries them around, squishes them until the squeaker wears out, he still enjoys playing with them after that. I check them every so often, if they are broken/breaking, then I throw them out. I did find that after he got used to the idea that there will always be a 'ball' in his life, that he was not so intent on having one in his mouth.

Consider, (once he becomes less 'attached' to his ball), using a toss of a ball, or toy, as a reward for getting it 'right'.


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## tlvgolden (Oct 23, 2017)

Charliethree - We used to have one of the Kong balls, I'll have to find some more! Good to know that they're not abrasive! I would love to be able to use his toy drive for training, but obviously right now he's way to overstimulated by toys to use them. Someday I hope!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Give it some time, everything will work out just fine!


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

tlvgolden said:


> The problem is, when it comes to the ball, he has no interest in treats. Even really good and smelly treats like lamb or liverwurst holds no interest for him then. Even if I were to put the ball up, he still has no interest in treats until he gets the ball back. It's funny, because for our normal training sessions I can just use his kibble as treats, that's how food driven he normally is. It seems like once he's into toy mode, food becomes irrelevant.


Hmmm. That makes it harder. I played with two balls with my last dog, but you said you tried that. I'm out of ideas. I have found that my dogs just realized it was more fun to drop the ball for me because then it meant I'd throw it again.


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## CedarFurbaby (Jun 6, 2016)

I feel for you because Cedar although is not so attached to balls, will not budge from tracking a scent even if I put chicken under his nose. Some things are just so valuable to them, it's crazy! I haven't got very many ideas for you, but it sounds like Tucker is a food-motivated dog in some ways at least, what about using treats close to dinner time so that he's been hungry all day? Or perhaps even skip dinner one day and drop a treat for the ball the next morning? If he does manage to drop the ball, then you could tell him 'dinner time!' and add the huge reward that is dinner. Then give him the ball back. When I haven't got any success in training something, it sometimes helps to find a time of day where Cedar is more calm and also when he is more hungry.


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## tlvgolden (Oct 23, 2017)

CedarFurbaby said:


> I feel for you because Cedar although is not so attached to balls, will not budge from tracking a scent even if I put chicken under his nose. Some things are just so valuable to them, it's crazy! I haven't got very many ideas for you, but it sounds like Tucker is a food-motivated dog in some ways at least, what about using treats close to dinner time so that he's been hungry all day? Or perhaps even skip dinner one day and drop a treat for the ball the next morning? If he does manage to drop the ball, then you could tell him 'dinner time!' and add the huge reward that is dinner. Then give him the ball back. When I haven't got any success in training something, it sometimes helps to find a time of day where Cedar is more calm and also when he is more hungry.




Thank you! I think I will try practicing giving up the ball when he’s more won out. He’s hungry all the time! lol I use his food as training treats, so it’s used throughout the day, but maybe I’ll use a bit less one morning and see if he might be a bit hungrier than normal in the afternoon.


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## mbrod12 (Nov 20, 2017)

Goose was really bad at the whole bring it back concept with ANY toy. 

I spent some time training him by closing all the doors in a hallway while I sat on the floor at the open end. When I would throw the ball, Goose had no where to go with it except back towards me and every time he came back with the ball I had a treat waiting for him. It really did the trick for us so maybe it would work for you too!


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## CedarFurbaby (Jun 6, 2016)

tlvgolden said:


> Thank you! I think I will try practicing giving up the ball when he’s more won out. He’s hungry all the time! lol I use his food as training treats, so it’s used throughout the day, but maybe I’ll use a bit less one morning and see if he might be a bit hungrier than normal in the afternoon.


He certainly sounds food motivated! I would try raining chicken, burger or steak on him to see if he can give up the ball. Part of doing this is that the movement also attracts their attention, and trying to find and pick up every piece is a fun game too. At least that is the case for Cedar, it may be that Tucker won't be as interested!


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## Sartor (Apr 26, 2016)

OK so I have the exact same issue.

Our dog LOVES tennis balls. Problem is, he has absolutely 0 interest in dropping them when he has them. Its not a game, he just wants to tear them to shreds and is scared i'll take them away. At the park its a nightmare as anyone who throws a ball is never getting it back. Its very frustrating. I've tried the two/three/four/five ball trick, i've tried STEAK and many other treats. NOTHING is as great as that tennis ball. 

Something that worked for me though briefly to try and teach him the ball wasn't a big deal was this. At the park, i'd gather 4 tennis balls. I'd get him to sit, and hold the new tennis balls infront of him about 5 feet away. I'd get down to his level, and get him to drop the first ball and be interested in the ones i was holding. Then i'd toss him one. Once he caught it and dropped that one, i'd toss another one, until he had all 4-5 laying there next to him.

I found when I did this and then walked up to him, he wasn't as possessive about them and I could grab them all and only THEN would I throw one for him to chase. He'd bring it back and i'd repeat.

But still, we haven't found this to be a good solution, its just progress.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

Put all the tennis balls away. Never let him play with them unless you are involved and he is on a long line. Start retriever training on a short leash and the reward (not necessarily food but positive attention) only comes when they bring the ball back to you. Otherwise the reward is the ball and he has no use for you and sees no need to bring it back to you.
I use tennis balls as a reward for walking nicely on the leash. You teach leash walking one step at a time in an area where there are no distractions. As you master the art of getting and keeping their attention, then you increase the distractions slowly.
Search yourtube for videos on using toys for rewards and see if this helps. Submissive urination is usually about low self esteem. Try asking your trainer to give you some positive training tips to build his confidence.


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## ticktock (Jan 8, 2018)

tlvgolden said:


> I'm at a loss. I really want him to get his excess energy out in the mornings, and I think fetch is really the best way to do that, but I want it to be a positive game that's strengthening our relationship, which it clearly isn't now. I also need to find a way to overcome his ball obsession, since at this point I could never count on his recall if, for example, someone was throwing a ball nearby. This is fairly common on the beach, etc.
> 
> Is there any hope for us?
> To the more experienced training people here, where would you start with this problem?
> ...


___________________________________
Any hope for you?
Nope. Maybe age, as in when he gets older.

I have had goldens for decades, now on 5th one. She is now 1 year old. She is the first golden I have ever had that will not retrieve a ball, or anything else for that matter. She is near fanatical with a ball. I have tried every trick mentioned in this thread as well as ideas from other trainers, nothing has worked. 

Elsewhere on this thread "puddles" suggested start the training in the house. Yep, good way to start really.
In the house, or a small enclosed area where she knows she cant get away from me, she will retrieve anything, even her favorite ball, bring it right to me, and "drop it" as soon as I say drop it..
I began training as soon as I got her at 8 weeks old. She knows a variety of behaviors and commands and performs them excellently.

If outside with a ball, forget it, she will run away if I approach and just lay down and chew on it if I ignore her. If outside, the only way I can get close enough to her is to take another ball and approach tossing it up in the air a little so she can see it, then I can get close enough to slip a leash on her. If I leave her alone in the yard, eventually she will come to the door with the ball and come inside and run to her bed with the ball. But then she will let me have it and is polite about it since she knows she can't escape.

If we are outside without a leash but do not have a ball, she listens very well.

I have tried using real meat which she loves, but she wont trade a ball for it even if she knows I have the meat. I can get within about 5-6 feet of her but as soon as I get too close she is off, running away and laughing about it. I know she wants me to chase her.

The long 20-30 foot leash is a waste of time, didnt help at all.

I have decided that some dogs just will not retrieve and I have one of them. I call her our 'golden getter' instead of retriever since she will go get anything I throw, but will not retrieve it, or bring it back. Maybe when she gets older and a bit more settled she will change.

Since she does well with other behaviors and is a good dog in most every other way, its obvious she just has too strong of a play or chase me drive right now, so fetching just ain't happening.


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## Rilelen (Jan 11, 2015)

This takes some time, but what worked for my ball-obsessed girl was the "2 ball game." Combined with never trying to take the ball from her b/c that just ratcheted up her anxiety about relinquishing the ball. 

Super easy concept: what's their favorite ball? Have 2 of them. Put them both on the floor. Throw the first one. 

When they run back, make a big show of picking up the second one. Give it a few minutes. Show them that awesome IDENTICAL second ball you have. Your dog will usually drop the first ball in anticipation of running after the second ball. If they don't, go ahead and throw it anyway. After a few throws, make a big show of picking up the second ball and insist on waiting for them to drop the first ball before you throw the second. Eventually they'll give up and WHOO BOY. Their favorite ball flying through the air is pretty good reward for dropping the ball. If possible "mark" the drop by saying good boy/girl! or something similar so they connect dropping the ball with "getting" the ball again. 

After many weeks of this, Abby will now spit out her ball as soon as she runs up to me. Lots of good reinforcement history with dropping the ball combined with taking out all her anxiety about me trying to take the ball away from her. Plus - it's super easy and lazy for you, all you need is duplicate balls.


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## FosterGolden (Mar 10, 2014)

If the dog just wants the ball, then let him carry it and just walk around the park. It sounds like he is happy without playing fetch and frankly, playing fetch is not the best physical and mental exercise a dog can get. I mean, it's his game, why not let him play it the way he wants to play it? It sounds like you tried a lot of different methods and it also sounds like the dog has had a lot of opportunities to cement this game of his.


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## Carrite (Aug 8, 2017)

My perspective is this: there will be no fixing your dog from not returning items thrown. I believe there are two basic personalities in golden retrievers with thrown items, fetching and teasing. I've now got GRs #3 and #4, and I have one of each and have seen both types previously. One has an inner desire to get things and bring things back, for praise and another throw. Another likes to just get the item and show off and tease you with it. That's fine. It is a natural play tendency with most dogs — get what the other dog wants and taunt them with it.

There is no sense trying to argue with canine nature in these circumstances.

tim


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

I suggest all of you head over to the hunt and field section of the forum. We can help you! This is what we do. Whether you are retrieving tennis balls or birds, it’s all the same.

With a dog that won’t bring the ball back. Put the dog on a long line or long rope. 50’ if you have one. Never throw it far enough that you can’t reel the dog in. You hold the dog by the collar, You throw the ball, say the dog’s name, then release the dog. Hang onto the long line as the dog goes to get the ball. It helps if there are 2people, 1to hold the dog and 1to throw. Once the dog picks up the ball, start calling the dog and jumping up and down, whatever it takes to get the dog heading in your direction. Reel that dog in! Do not let the dog get away. The whole time you are praising the dog and being animated. When the dog gets back to you, make them sit at your side. Don’t take the ball away immediately. Have them sit by your side with the ball in their mouth and you stroke the top of their head telling them how wonderful they are. Then after the dog has held the ball a moment, take the ball. If the dog resists, hold their collar before you try to take the ball. Use your fingers to get the ball to release from their mouth. 

Once the dog figures out the game, you shouldn’t have any problems. A long line is key. Without the long line or a long rope, you have no control. Also only throw the ball 2or 3times each session. You want the dog wanting more. Anticipation is a good thing.

Hope you have fun out there.


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## ticktock (Jan 8, 2018)

Carrite said:


> My perspective is this: there will be no fixing your dog from not returning items thrown. I believe there are two basic personalities in golden retrievers with thrown items, fetching and teasing. I've now got GRs #3 and #4, and I have one of each and have seen both types previously. One has an inner desire to get things and bring things back, for praise and another throw. Another likes to just get the item and show off and tease you with it. That's fine. It is a natural play tendency with most dogs — get what the other dog wants and taunt them with it.
> 
> There is no sense trying to argue with canine nature in these circumstances.
> 
> tim


I agree with you completely.
Some dogs like to chase and retrieve, some like to be chased. 
Its all good.


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## ticktock (Jan 8, 2018)

Alaska7133 said:


> I suggest all of you head over to the hunt and field section of the forum. We can help you! This is what we do. Whether you are retrieving tennis balls or birds, it’s all the same.
> 
> With a dog that won’t bring the ball back. Put the dog on a long line or long rope. 50’ if you have one. Never throw it far enough that you can’t reel the dog in. You hold the dog by the collar, You throw the ball, say the dog’s name, then release the dog. Hang onto the long line as the dog goes to get the ball. It helps if there are 2people, 1to hold the dog and 1to throw. Once the dog picks up the ball, start calling the dog and jumping up and down, whatever it takes to get the dog heading in your direction. Reel that dog in! Do not let the dog get away. The whole time you are praising the dog and being animated. When the dog gets back to you, make them sit at your side. Don’t take the ball away immediately. Have them sit by your side with the ball in their mouth and you stroke the top of their head telling them how wonderful they are. Then after the dog has held the ball a moment, take the ball. If the dog resists, hold their collar before you try to take the ball. Use your fingers to get the ball to release from their mouth.
> 
> ...



Nope.
I have tried the long leash/rope, heres how it goes. 
Dog sits next to me, throw ball.
Dog chases ball.
Dog gets ball but wont come back.
Walk towards dog, dog runs further away.
Dont walk towards dog, dog teases you and says come chase me.
Begin to reel her in, dog says oh boy, new game.
Dog drops ball and chews leash/rope, then digs in her feet and begins tug of war.
Dog jumps around and get tangled in leash so now impossible to continue reeling her in.

Go to dog, try and untangle from leash.
Go get ball, try again.
Same result.

This behavior is the same even if I have chicken or steak to use as reward.
And she loves chicken and steak, but loves ball more.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

ticktock said:


> Nope.
> I have tried the long leash/rope, heres how it goes.
> Dog sits next to me, throw ball.
> Dog chases ball.
> ...


Go back to the beginning. Throw the ball. Hang onto the long line. You should use a second person to reel the pup in. As soon as that pup's mouth touches the ball, start calling them and reeling them in. Be loud and happy. 

OK, so dog drops ball on the way back. That's fine. Have the other person walk out and pick up the ball, while you hang onto the pup so it can't get away and pick up the ball. Now pup is super excited. Throw ball again. Hold the pup for a moment before releasing them. Let the pup loose. This time I doubt they leave that ball behind.

One thing to remember, don't get upset about dropping the ball. Don't let him go pick up the ball he dropped. You walk out or your friend walks out and gets the ball. This keeps you in control.
Also only throw that ball 2 or 3 times in the beginning. You want the dog to want that ball so badly each time you go. But you control the rules.

So if he drops that ball, don't let him pick it up... You've got this, just don't get frustrated. Pup has to learn that the ball throwing is controlled by you, not the pup. He'll figure it out soon enough I think. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

P.S. Don't use a treat reward. His reward is getting the ball and bringing it to you, so that he can get it again. Treats are great for heeling exercises, not so much for retrieving


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## goldenintlv (Aug 30, 2017)

Just wanted to check back in here and say that we've ended up having a lot of luck with the two identical balls method. He now returns with the ball 95% of the time and drops it next to me for me to throw the other ball. The other 5% of the time, I just have to make like I'm going to throw the second ball and then he comes back. 

Now I need to figure out a way to successfully transition to just one ball, but I do have hope! We also started working super hard on recall, so hopefully that will help too! 

I'm including a picture of the goober and a new ball, just cuz he's kinda cute. Ignore the shaved leg, he had a terrible reaction to Metro given for Giardia and needed a lot of blood drawn


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## ticktock (Jan 8, 2018)

Ok then, so I'm the one who's dog refused to bring the ball back no matter what I tried.
I gave up on trying to train this. Just totally stopped.
So last week I was out in the yard with her and just for fun, threw a ball.
She ran, got the ball and brought it right back to me like she had been doing it all her young life.
I figured it was a fluke so I threw the ball again, and again she ran and got it and brought it right back to me.
I mean, she delivered it right into my hand. 
So we did this for a while and she returned it every time, right into my hand like she was trained by an expert.

Over the past week we have gone out with a ball, and every day, every time I throw it, she gets it and brings it right back to my hand.
I have no explanation for this. I have not used any type of reward except for just praising her when she gives to to me.
Previously she has not ever brought me the ball and out of the blue she now does it like a pro.
I guess her "retriever" gene kicked in.
Go figure.


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