# Getting OFA films..



## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

It's very hard to find the 'right' vet out here. I am looking for some experienced input. Does sedation matter? Does the type of sedation matter (how far out they are, if it is reversible or not)? 

Do you think well known orthopedic vet would be good at positioning? I found one that is a bit of a drive, but I understand he is well-known and given that he specializes in orthopedics think that is to my advantage...


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

The vet I went to for both Faelan and Towhee was a specialist (radiologist) and I was very happy with him. It was a drive but well worth it, I think. He did PennHip at the same time as OFA and the sedation was light. I was right there when Towhee had panic coming out of sedation and they let me in to help her out.

I felt very comfortable both times since he took the took the time to explain the sedation and procedures, the precautions and reversibility of the anesthesia and review the results with me.

And I especially liked that I had an appointment, stayed while the XRays were taken and the dogs came out of sedation and was on my home with my dog in a short time. I didn't need to do the whole drop off in the morning thing and wait for the vet to call me at some point during a very long day


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

Wow, I've never had to drop my dogs off for hip and elbow x-rays. In fact, at 3 different vets, I was allowed to help hold my dog while he was positioned. All 3 vets were very experienced at taking the x-rays, and none used sedation.

I would ask the vet how many OFA x-rays he has taken, and his experience with doing them. Usually your best predictor of the vet's skill, is to ask breeders in the area who they use. Nobody wants to have to reshoot x-rays because the OFA rejected them.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Mine are either sedated or under full blown anesthesia. The way I look at it is that either one will give more relaxation than an awake dog, and quite frankly the more relaxed, the looser the hips might be. In other words, I want my dogs' hips at their worst! I have done a lot of OFA rads, we have never had them sent back for positioning. In fact the lowest rating one of my dogs has gotten was a FAIR and that was with domitor. The others have all been GOOD with full blown anesthesia.

OSHA will not allow owners any where near our machine!! We wear individual badges to keep track of radiation exposure.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Sally's Mom said:


> Mine are either sedated or under full blown anesthesia. The way I look at it is that either one will give more relaxation than an awake dog, and quite frankly the more relaxed, the looser the hips might be. In other words, I want my dogs' hips at their worst! I have done a lot of OFA rads, we have never had them sent back for positioning. In fact the lowest rating one of my dogs has gotten was a FAIR and that was with domitor. The others have all been GOOD with full blown anesthesia.
> 
> OSHA will not allow owners any where near our machine!! We wear individual badges to keep track of radiation exposure.


Sorry if I was unclear  I was in the waiting room, not the radiology room. But a short enough distance away that my little one was probably thrashing less than 30 seconds before I was there with her to calm her.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

No, you were clear. Tahnee said she has been present.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

Sally's Mom said:


> No, you were clear. Tahnee said she has been present.


Yes, I am in the room with them (wearing a big heavy apron thing-ugh!) I usually hold the head. 

I won't use anesthesia but sedation is OK.


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

I've only had this done with one dog but I was SO distressed about it I put it off longer than I should have!

- Definitely ask how often they do OFA 's.... and if you can talk to any dog people who have had it done, all the better.
- While quality of experience is very important....of those places recommended you may want to call around and ask about price... when my dog was sedated for xrays due to his lameness last summer....at a specialist facility, I asked them to do his OFAs too... they said they would recommend getting it done elsewhere...that it would be hundreds of dollars cheaper for the OFAs... when I was finally making the decision between two places.... there was a cost difference of over $150 dollars. And our cost was further reduced at that facility because my dog was already microchipped. the other would have still charged me the standard OFA fee that "includes" a microchip, even if I didn't need it....
-- I would avoid acepromazine if you can as part of the sedation.... it makes dogs physically unable to respond by more sensitive to noises... I can't ethically do that with my dogs...and a tech friend refuses to have it used with her pets due to how distressed some of them are when waking up.... anecdotal thing, but.... if there are other options available....
-- If possible, you might want to find out who will let you stay... like others are saying, the vet let me stay but typically does it as as drop off thing. I said my dog was bad crated (which is true in that environment). 
-- Familiarize yourself with the paperwork.... be sure you take in all the info you need (microchip numbers, sire and dam numbers, etc)...and know how to fill out the form. Despite claiming to have done a lot of OFA's.... the paperwork experience didn't impress me...


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

My vet is a trained radiologist and does not sedate. She has a channel that she uses to position the dogs comfortably and has the owner in the room to hold the head and keep the dog calm and quiet. I am always there, wearing the huge lead apron and neckpiece, to hold my dogs be it ortho xrays or a pre-whelp xray. She is the go-to person for clearance xrays in SOnt, and bonus is she can pretty much predict the grade the dog will get as she is skilled in reading films as well. Before I moved and made them my regular vet practice I used to drive 75 mins to get there for clearance xrays. It is worth the drive if you can find someone who can take a good film and undersstands the positioning OFA requires. Survey the breeders you know and find out who they use. If the same name keeps coming up there is probably a reason!


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Unfortunately in my area there is no vet that everyone goes to, and while I am in a relatively large area (Boise area) I guess it is still not that big compared to other parts in the states. The one vet in the area I am leaning toward is a drop off and pick-up later. He said he will try without anesthesia, but I am not confident that Scout will be calm enough. Especially if I am not there. I am also concerned about full sedation (he does not like reversible). Then of course, I could not nail him done on a price which does make me nervous. I mean, I know it is important to go with someone good rather than be a stickler about price but he quoted me $400 while my friend told me he did hers with sedation for around $200. And if I am going to pay that much, well, then I'd rather go out of my way to a vet who does this all the time.

I found this guy and am thinking about making it a day trip. Sun Valley Animal Center - Randy Acker, DVM Given that he is an orthopedic vet I wonder if that means he might be good at positioning and the price was more reasonable ($250). I can't find any info on if people take their dogs to him specifically for OFA/Pennhip but it does appear that he is a very well respected and one of the best in the whole west for orthopedics. He's written a book on sporting dog first aid, and developed a recent method for replacing bad elbows (2008). So, I feel like with his experience he's got to be good at understanding joints!


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## cprcheetah (Apr 26, 2009)

It really depends on the Vet and their skill level, I have seen normal hips positioned so they look like they have dysplasia. Most are sedated or anesthetized because of the way the hips have to be positioned during filming. I would think an orthopedic specialist would know how to take a decent OFA film.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

My trips are always day trips, whether it's hips, eyes or hearts  No matter where I go, it is always at least a 3 hour trip one way. I take the day off, and make a day of it. I eat at a nice restaurant somewhere along the way (well, Texas Roadhouse or Red Lobster type), make sure I have a great audio book, and make sure to stop somewhere to get toys for the dogs. If I have a puppy, he or she gets to come along for experience and socializing.

All of the vets I use have that channel thingy, and it seems to work really well. The guy in Madison (Link? at Spring Harbor) is so good and so fast, it is unreal!


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

GoldenSail said:


> Unfortunately in my area there is no vet that everyone goes to, and while I am in a relatively large area (Boise area) I guess it is still not that big compared to other parts in the states. The one vet in the area I am leaning toward is a drop off and pick-up later. He said he will try without anesthesia, but I am not confident that Scout will be calm enough. Especially if I am not there. I am also concerned about full sedation (he does not like reversible). Then of course, I could not nail him done on a price which does make me nervous. I mean, I know it is important to go with someone good rather than be a stickler about price but he quoted me $400 while my friend told me he did hers with sedation for around $200. And if I am going to pay that much, well, then I'd rather go out of my way to a vet who does this all the time.
> 
> I found this guy and am thinking about making it a day trip. Sun Valley Animal Center - Randy Acker, DVM Given that he is an orthopedic vet I wonder if that means he might be good at positioning and the price was more reasonable ($250). I can't find any info on if people take their dogs to him specifically for OFA/Pennhip but it does appear that he is a very well respected and one of the best in the whole west for orthopedics. He's written a book on sporting dog first aid, and developed a recent method for replacing bad elbows (2008). So, I feel like with his experience he's got to be good at understanding joints!


I would not be comfortable with being asked to drop my dog all day off simply to have radiographs done, either. It's not like it is surgery!!!

The guy you found seems good--if he can do PennHip it means he has been certified, so has gone out of his way to learn about joint issues. Have you tried posting on RTF? Some of the working folks in the area might have suggestions about who to go to, and if his name comes up then it might be worth a shot.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

sterregold said:


> I would not be comfortable with being asked to drop my dog all day off simply to have radiographs done, either. It's not like it is surgery!!!
> 
> The guy you found seems good--if he can do PennHip it means he has been certified, so has gone out of his way to learn about joint issues. Have you tried posting on RTF? Some of the working folks in the area might have suggestions about who to go to, and if his name comes up then it might be worth a shot.


I have thought about it. His name is on there already as the go-to-guy for doing orthopedic work here in the west (and I mean including Washington and Oregon which has bigger cities and more people). I did pm someone who took their dog to him for hip reconstruction after it got hit by a car. He likes the guy, but doesn't know about his experience with OFA. They did try to talk me into PennHip and if I do drive out there probably will just because it is not that much more $$ unlike other places. So, why not? I also like that he does digital which isn't necessary, but is nice. I can get a cd copy and faster results.

EDIT: the vet in town that I am considering also does PennHip but charges over $100 more. He breeds goldens as well. Does not show or compete, but does take conformation into consideration and does get all four clearances. Does hips for his own dogs. So there is that, even though it is a drop off in the morning and pick up later in the early afternoon.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Drop off in the AM is standard for us. There is nothing is surreptitious about it. Heck at least 3 of my dogs are here with me every day that I work. My old boss was a stickler for positioning. We either use a chest positioner or a cradle to keep the body straight. As long as the pelvis is square like it should be and the patellas are straight and parallel, you are not going to make a non dysplastic dog look dysplastic. And as I said previously I want the most relaxation in my dogs, so that I get the most accurate picture of what their hips are truly like. If you can have PennHip done as well, I say go for it.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

I don't know how many shows you have in your area, but have you thought to go to one of the mobile vets that does xrays at the show grounds? Or maybe find out which vets in your general area do the clinics at shows and contact them? At least you'd know they are experienced with OFA. Or maybe they'd have a recommendation for someone closer to you? Maybe you already thought of that and it's not an option, but I thought I'd throw it out there.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

goldenjackpuppy said:


> I don't know how many shows you have in your area, but have you thought to go to one of the mobile vets that does xrays at the show grounds? Or maybe find out which vets in your general area do the clinics at shows and contact them? At least you'd know they are experienced with OFA. Or maybe they'd have a recommendation for someone closer to you? Maybe you already thought of that and it's not an option, but I thought I'd throw it out there.


I have but there really aren't that many close shows, and none do I see offer that (they have eyes and heart, sometimes hearing test but have never seen hips/elbows). I also have a relatively small window. Due to Scout's heat cycle which is just under six months and wanting to get them done 6 weeks away from the end or start of one--that gives me mid-April to mid-June.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Sterregold thanks for the suggestion of using RTF. I have settled on a vet using recommendations I got there. Price is decent, experience is good, and I hear she prefers and tries not to sedate them. All pluses. I get the impression from talking to the receptionist that they do a lot--a lot of sporting dogs too.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

I think you'll find that sporting dog owners will find someone in the area that does a good job and stick with them. Many Vets that use sedation do so because they don't have the experience and staff on hand to do them without. (Which IMHDAO is a poor reason to put a dog out.) 

Ask people at your local tests and trials, they'll likely have a "go to" vet for OFA films.


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## gabbys mom (Apr 23, 2008)

Swampcollie said:


> I think you'll find that sporting dog owners will find someone in the area that does a good job and stick with them. Many Vets that use sedation do so because they don't have the experience and staff on hand to do them without. (Which IMHDAO is a poor reason to put a dog out.)
> 
> Ask people at your local tests and trials, they'll likely have a "go to" vet for OFA films.


Agreed. I found my current vet because I asked the hunt test guys. My vet is a WC judge and breeds goldens. Great combo for me. He takes beautiful OFA x-rays and sends them to their in-house radiologist before OFA. If the in house doesn't like them, they re-shoot for free.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

What are your thoughts on doing films with a bitch and heat cycles? OFA recommends waiting one month. Some people say wait longer....


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

The hips on a bitch in season will appear to have more laxity in the joint. Wait five or six weeks after her season is complete to do the films.


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## eeneymeanymineymo (Oct 5, 2009)

Swampcollie said:


> I think you'll find that sporting dog owners will find someone in the area that does a good job and stick with them. *Many Vets that use sedation do so because they don't have the experience and staff on hand to do them without. (Which IMHDAO is a poor reason to put a dog out.) *
> 
> Ask people at your local tests and trials, they'll likely have a "go to" vet for OFA films.


I don't really believe vets sedate because they don't have the experience of positioning or lack staff. According to the OFA website:

"Chemical restraint permits easier, and as a rule, more accurate positioning
and reduces potential radiation exposure risk to the patient and
veterinary personnel. The types of chemical restraint, depth of general
anesthesia, or use of manual restraint only are environmental variables
that can affect the radiographic evaluation.
Anesthesia has been shown to infl uence the evaluation, as a few
dogs have been found to appear normal without anesthesia and
yet demonstrate subluxation with anesthesia. This probably is
due to muscular relaxation. The current belief is that a dog who
appears dysplastic with anesthetic and normal without, should
be considered dysplastic, or at best of questionable breeding
quality. However, there are some veterinarians and a few HD
control programs that do not recommend anesthesia as they feel
that subluxation noted under anesthesia results in a false-positive
fi nding.
Preliminary OFA data indicates that chemical restraint does affect
the radiographic appearance of the hip joints in some dogs. Current information,
observations made on large numbers of dogs, and experience
with follow-up studies on large numbers of dogs, supports the recommendation
that chemical restraint to the point of relaxation, or general
anesthesia, be used. This appears to give a truer evaluation of the hip
status, but more research is needed on this controversial subject, as there
is an absence of controlled scientifi c data."

I used to drive 4 hours one way to use someone who did not sedate as my regular vet would only use sedation for OFA hips & elbows. Decided that 8 hours of driving was fine when the weather was good but in the dead of winter, I started using my regular vet (who is also a reproduction specialist, is the best in the area for films and shows & breeds as well) and I have found that using sedation means I do have to drop my dogs off at 1 pm and pick them up a few hours later but I feel I am getting a truer evaluation of the hip
status. It is not about convenience, as I am still driving 3 hours total to use my local vet but I trust what OFA suggests and my vet feels the same way. 

As far as when to do films on a bitch, if she came in on March 1st, and is due back in September 1st, why not schedule her for June 1st? Assuming she was in for 3 -4 weeks, this gives you 2 months after her cycle finished and 3 months before her next cycle begins.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

I agree with what eenymeanymineymo posted. All of mine have been anesthetized except for one that was sedated. As I have said in the past, the "drugs" cause the most relaxation and quite honestly I WANT my dogs to look their "worst". I think OFA definitely considers the anesth/sedation when reading the radiographs. Ironically, the one with sedation had FAIR hips(and was at the end of her heat cycle... I did it then because another bitch I had had reabsorbed all but one dead pup, and needed a c section, so I fgured I'd deal with all things bad in that week). The other 3 had anesthesia (injectables and gas) and were all GOOD's.


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## eeneymeanymineymo (Oct 5, 2009)

I recently used the non sedation route on one of my dogs and OFA came back Fair. If you looked at those films in comparison to all of my other films that used sedation - they look BETTER than the films rated Good (all with sedation). It could of just been the panel being extra tough with their opinions. Thinking I may redo them with sedation to see what they would rate them but Fair is passing and because the panel changes, you just never know what they might rate them as that second time. Might as well leave alone!


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

And as I have said previously, none of the films taken where I work have ever been sent back!


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Well Scout was a good girl and did not need a sedative for hips or elbows. Vet says she should pass but will not guess on hip ratings. Cross your fingers for us that we get a good or better!


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## Golden123 (Dec 6, 2009)

Thats great! Fingers crossed.

Sadie's getting spayed next week and im going to do the ofa hip xrays. Did your vet let you see her x-rays?


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

Yay Scout! Fingers crossed!


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Yes, she gave me the original to mail and I scanned them. Posted them on another thread to see if anyone had any guesses.

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...gy-breed-standard/95902-guess-hip-rating.html


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## Newby (Jan 9, 2013)

Hi there,

Just wondered if you could give me the name of the radiologist/vet that you mentioned in SOnt? Thanks!


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