# Sticky  What clearances look like



## Tahnee GR

Excellent idea! I used to have all my clearances scanned in but that computer and scanner have died 

I thought about posting a link to one or two of the online stud packets that are out there, but wasn't sure that was a good idea.

If someone who has scanned in their clearances and could post them, that would be great!

I know we could link to blank forms but I think it would be good to see what the completed form looks like.


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## damita

Sample OFA Hip report

As you will notice the dogs registered name and registration number is at the top - make sure this matches the pedigree and the other clearances. Age at evalution - make sure this matches too - if someone is trying to show you a clearance for a dog who was 5 when they had their hips done and the dog who is bred is only 2 you know it doesn't belong to that dog. the OFA number itself is a wealth of info - this one telling us that LR-140920G27M-PI is a Lab (LR) , 140920 means it was the 140920th dog to be submitted, has a "GOOD" rating (that is what the G stands for), was 27 months old when radiographed (this number will always be 24 or over), male (M) and was permanently identified by way of either a tatoo, microchip or DNA profile (PI) - if it says NOPI at the end that means that at the time the x-rays were taken that they could not confirm the identification of the dog.


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## damita

Sample Elbow report


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## damita

Sample OFA heart clearance


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## Tahnee GR

Here is an example of a Cardiology Report done by a Cardiologist


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## damita

Sample of Thyroid testing clearance done by OFA








http://www.offa.org/images/thycert.jpg


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## damita

This is a PRELIM report which by the standards and Code of Ethics of ANY breed club is NOT good enough to use for breeding purposes


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## Tahnee GR

Sample of a Cerf clearance


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## Tahnee GR

Now we need copies of the actual heart report and eye report, before being sent in for the registered clearance. These are as good as the registered clearances but look very different.


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## damita

I have both by they are at home and of course I am at work (bad me) - I can always put them up tomorrow if nobody else has by then.


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## Maxs Mom

Ok this may be a dumb question, but is there any way by looking at the elbow OFA number to understand how they rate? I know the "G" in the hip means good. 

Ann


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## Tahnee GR

Maxs Mom said:


> Ok this may be a dumb question, but is there any way by looking at the elbow OFA number to understand how they rate? I know the "G" in the hip means good.
> 
> Ann


Good question!

Elbows aren't graded under the OFA certification process-they are just Pass or Fail. If they Fail, they won't get a number.


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## LibertyME

LOVE this thread! Very Productive and proactive!

Is there a form/report for patellas? Thyroid?
Are they pass/fail?


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## Tahnee GR

Thyroid clearance is posted on the first page. It is not a required clearance but some breeders do it anyway.

Patellas are not required either and are not a big problem in Goldens at this point. Some breeders do them, and the certificate for them would be very similar to hips or elbows. Someone may have one they can post. I've never seen patella problems in 30+ years in Goldens so I don't think they are very common at all. I have definitely seen them in the Pugs though!


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## LibertyME

Tahnee GR said:


> Thyroid clearance is posted on the first page. It is not a required clearance but some breeders do it anyway.
> 
> Patellas are not required either and are not a big problem in Goldens at this point. Some breeders do them, and the certificate for them would be very similar to hips or elbows. Someone may have one they can post. I've never seen patella problems in 30+ years in Goldens so I don't think they are very common at all. I have definitely seen them in the Pugs though!


Thanks! I was so excited I zoomed right by it!!:doh:
Thanks for the patella info...good to know


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## Ash

I can help with that.... here are original heart and eye exam papers as given by the examining specialist and also an OVC elbow clearance.


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## MurphyTeller

Ash said:


> I can help with that.... here are original heart and eye exam papers as given by the examining specialist and also an OVC elbow clearance.


Ash,
Perhaps you'd like to black out your personal information?
E


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## Ash

MurphyTeller said:


> Ash,
> Perhaps you'd like to black out your personal information?
> E


I thought about it..... but all the same personal info is everywhere.... GrWeekly, show results, Golden Breeder Resource etc.


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## HaliaGoldens

I was about to upload a copy of an old CERF from, but saw that Ashleigh put it up while I was digging through folders.  I also have hard copies of export pedigrees and health clearances from Holland and Sweden, if anyone is getting a puppy from either country and wants to make sure the paperwork is legitimate.


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## esSJay

This is a great thread, damita, and it will be very helpful for others in the future!



Tahnee GR said:


> Good question!
> 
> Elbows aren't graded under the OFA certification process-they are just Pass or Fail. If they Fail, they won't get a number.


So is there any way that someone could still see if they failed? It would be nice if we could know if the elbows were classified as "unknown" as opposed to a "fail".




MurphyTeller said:


> Ash,
> Perhaps you'd like to black out your personal information?
> E


If you need help blacking it out you can send it to me (PM) and I can help you out.


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## damita

To an untrained eye I think many could pass off forged or failed eye and heart exam sheets (how do we know the neighbour didn't sign it) and think all breeders should submit the heart exams and at least one eye exam (although I do submit mine yearly). I will post the OFA application form for the heart once I get back on my laptop too just so we have another reference.


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## Tahnee GR

This is really turning into a great thread! Could one of the mods make it a sticky?


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## Ash

HaliaGoldens said:


> I was about to upload a copy of an old CERF from, but saw that Ashleigh put it up while I was digging through folders.  I also have hard copies of export pedigrees and health clearances from Holland and Sweden, if anyone is getting a puppy from either country and wants to make sure the paperwork is legitimate.


That would be cool... I have never seen overseas clearances.


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## BeauShel

I made it a sticky and also included it in the Puppy Buyer's Fact Checker. 

Great information


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## HaliaGoldens

Ash said:


> That would be cool... I have never seen overseas clearances.


Here are a few. 
Austrian Retriever Club pedigree (it's a large folded pamphlet, so I had to scan it into four pages):
































Swedish Kennel Club export pedigree:








Hip and Elbow clearances (Netherlands):








Dutch Kennel Club export pedigree:








Eye clearance (Netherlands):


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## Tahnee GR

I was just reviewing this, and realized that the information on elbow dysplasia, as rated by OFA, was actually incomplete. You do either pass or fail for all intents or purposes but the ratings given are either Normal (no Excellent, Good or Fair, as with hips) or if dysplastic, are graded as a Grade 1, Grade 2 or Grade 3 dysplasia.

http://www.offa.org/elbowgrade.html


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## opera330

*New Member Question*

I am purchasing a puppy from a breeder in NJ. I saw hip and elbows on the OFA. I saw paperwork when I visited them from cardiologist and that "SAT-Like" form for the eyes. They saw normal however she has not sent into cerf yet and it is not on k9data or OFA. PROBLEM?


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## LibertyME

were there any "breeders options" noted on the SAT-like form?


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## LibertyME

I would prefer that the cardiac exam be submitted to OFA so I can see if the exam was performed by a regular vet or a cardiologist and if it was by ECHO or auscultation...(unless you happened to notice while you were looking at them...)



opera330 said:


> I am purchasing a puppy from a breeder in NJ. I saw hip and elbows on the OFA. I saw paperwork when I visited them from cardiologist and that "SAT-Like" form for the eyes. They saw normal however she has not sent into cerf yet and it is not on k9data or OFA. PROBLEM?


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## Ljilly28




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## opera330

I did not notice. I asked for clearances and saw hip and elbow on OFA and she had eye and heart inside a packet for me when I asked on a visit. She stated normal for both and had allowed me to look over the paperwork. I did not see anything abnormal. I asked why not on OFA and she stated personal hardships and the cost of registering everything with OFA. Assured me paperwork was in order.


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## opera330

The eye form above my post by Lily is what she had. I am not sure how the cardiac was done. Ausc. or echo. I know that she said a cardiologist did it.


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## Jige

This is very informative but on the first page several of the certificates dont show up for me. Is it my computer or not?


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## Tahnee GR

Hmm-you're right. I can't see the ones posted by Damita, just a red "x"


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## Jige

Glad it isnt this old laptop. I hope someone can fix it, I would like to see what they look like.


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## saus

I have looked though the forums, but I still have questions about how people post results on K-9 Data and the Cerf database. I don't want to unintentionally taint any breeders' reputations by asking a dumb question that might be perceived as hinting there's a problem. So, will someone who has the time to walk me through my questions please PM me? There's no hurry as I will have to log off soon, and then have another day of work before I can send you my specific questions.

Thanks in advance-

Linda


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## Tahnee GR

CERF results are actually posted by the organization itself, based on paperwork signed by the veterinary opthamologist and sent in by the owner. Those results are then downloaded periodically to OFA.

Information on k9data can be entered by anyone. The owner can enter the information from their paper copy of the clearances or they (or any interested party) can go to Orthopedic Foundation for Animals and post clearances they find on there. For CERF info, you can go to CERF - Canine Eye Registration Foundation , to look up clearances.

Many breeders still are not sending in their heart and eye clearances to be listed, and in those cases, interested parties need to request copies of the original documents.


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## Alaska7133

Maybe I missed it, but how often should clearances be done? I thought eyes were annual and the others were just once in a lifetime. Am I right?


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## golden_eclipse

Alaska7133 said:


> Maybe I missed it, but how often should clearances be done? I thought eyes were annual and the others were just once in a lifetime. Am I right?


Yes, as long as the hips and elbows are done after 2 years of age, and technically the heart after one year of age. (a lot of breeders re-check hearts to ensure the original finding was correct). 

But again, eyes should be done every year on dogs breeding or retired from breeding.


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## SMBC

I have a question about the Hip ratings...

I have seen that they are classified as either Excellent, Good or Fair and was wondering if someone could explain the differences between these categories?

My ultimate question is whether it would be a good idea to buy a puppy from a breeder where one or both parents had a classification of "fair" on their hips?

Thanks!=)


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## oro perro

Personally, I wouldn't...but I'll leave that answer to the more knowledgable folks.


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## Tahnee GR

SMBC said:


> I have a question about the Hip ratings...
> 
> I have seen that they are classified as either Excellent, Good or Fair and was wondering if someone could explain the differences between these categories?
> 
> My ultimate question is whether it would be a good idea to buy a puppy from a breeder where one or both parents had a classification of "fair" on their hips?
> 
> Thanks!=)


If the hip history behind both parents is strong, I wouldn't hesitate. If the hip history is spotty, with several dogs without a clearance or with hip dysplasia listed, I would not.

Fair is a passing score, with no signs of DJD.

Generally, you do try to breed a Fair to a Good or Excellent but I have done Fair to Fair breedings successfully, where hip production behind both dogs was good.


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## tippykayak

Fair means no signs at all of disease, so breeding two fair dogs is totally fine and wouldn't bother me at all. But, as Linda (Tahnee) says, the broader history of multigenerational clearances will tell you a lot more. A fair with a huge history of passes among parents, grandparents, and their siblings is a very strong hip pedigree. An excellent with a spotty history is a lot less desirable.

Here's a more technical explanation about how they arrive at the ratings if you're curious as to what each grade means.


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## Swampcollie

SMBC said:


> I have a question about the Hip ratings...
> 
> 
> My ultimate question is whether it would be a good idea to buy a puppy from a breeder where one or both parents had a classification of "fair" on their hips?
> 
> Thanks!=)


While Fair is a passing rating, a breeder should be trying to improve upon what they've got. So, it would be preferred to breed a Fair to a mate with a Good or Excellent rating. 

If a breeder put two Fair animals together I would be asking some pretty pointed questions about what they were trying to achieve with the litter.


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## Lucky1990

wow thx for the information


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## Mayve

Perhaps this was already answered and I missed it, but I have been looking at the history of one of the dam's I am considering purchasing a pup from and noticed that with the cerf I am finding things like (TESTED: 05 or TESTED: 10) what is this...is this a problem then...???? 

edited to add...this is not on the dam or sire but rather other dogs in their pedigree, but only a generation or two farther...


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## LibertyME

that is the year of the test.....


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## Mayve

I don't see a rating though...hmmm. just dates then.


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## LibertyME

Do you have the dogs registration number...you can look up in the CERF database...
CERF - CERF Certification Online Verification
Some breeders don't send the results into CERF which would mean you can not verify.(which is a shame).... So if you are looking on K9data...and they are just listing the dates...then you will want to request to see the copies of the exam results...I guess technically they could say tested, even if they dont pass....


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## Mayve

nope not popping up on the CERF site either...at least not this dam. the other one does, kind of makes me feel there might be something to hide with this girl...IDK...I will ask her though.


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## hvgoldens4

LibertyME said:


> were there any "breeders options" noted on the SAT-like form?


 
If both bubbles are marked NORMAL on a CERF form, there are no breeders options. If the dog has ANY breeders options, the normal bubble will NOT be filled in.


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## hvgoldens4

opera330 said:


> I did not notice. I asked for clearances and saw hip and elbow on OFA and she had eye and heart inside a packet for me when I asked on a visit. She stated normal for both and had allowed me to look over the paperwork. I did not see anything abnormal. I asked why not on OFA and she stated personal hardships and the cost of registering everything with OFA. Assured me paperwork was in order.


I am not buying the personal hardship. If she has the money to breed a litter, she has the money to send things into the OFA.

If it is a new CERF(meaning that the dog doesn't have a CERF number) it is $12.00 per dog. If you are re-cerfing(meaning the dog already has a CERF number from previous years and you are just sending in a new report) the cost is $8.00 per dog.

The fee to send in a heart clearance to the OFA is $15 and it is done once and not yearly.

I just have a hard time buying the fact that someone who is breeding cannot afford to spend between $23-27 per dog to get clearances where they belong.

To an untrained eye, you wouldn't know if the heart clearance was from a cardiologist, specialist or practioner. 

An issue with the CERF form is the DATE that the optho signed it. It should have been done in the past year. 

I wait to send in our CERF reports until we have all the dogs done. We take them a few at a time to clinics, etc(we do them in 3 groups) but they ALL get sent in.


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## hvgoldens4

Mayve said:


> Perhaps this was already answered and I missed it, but I have been looking at the history of one of the dam's I am considering purchasing a pup from and noticed that with the cerf I am finding things like (TESTED: 05 or TESTED: 10) what is this...is this a problem then...????
> 
> edited to add...this is not on the dam or sire but rather other dogs in their pedigree, but only a generation or two farther...


 
an 05, 10, etc is the years that the CERF forms were sent in to CERF and then sent to the OFA.

Here is an example(http://www.offa.org/display.html?appnum=1471666#animal)......the 10, 11 after the CERF exam number means that the dog was cleared in 2010 and 2011. You do not get a CERF number if the dog does not clear the exam. So, if a CERF number is listed, the dog has CERF'ed. Any breeders options would then be listed next to that. If there is nothing listed, like in the example above, that means that both eyes were found to be NORMAL.


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## hvgoldens4

Here are some examples of clearances. Hope these ones come thru.


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## hvgoldens4

Heart and eyes


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## hvgoldens4

These are final hip and elbow clearances as well a preliminary hip and elbow clearances.


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## Mayve

Thank you for clearing that up for me...I had my two cocker's done, but that was years and years ago. And I readily admit to not really thinking anything more about it, I did it for me because I knew ppl whose Cocker's developed eye problems early and I had a few common links in my girls backround....

There is another dog though in her program who isn't even registered and I was looking at them both. I will ask her about the one who isn't registered and see if she just hasn't sent them in or if she infact didn't do this ones eyes. 

I did see though, in the other dam who has the clearances registered that her sire had PRA genetically normal (just paraphrasing that) there was no mention with the dam. I have seen two thoughts....one is you can breed a carrier to a non carrier thus producing some clear and some carriers but never two carriers, and some say they shouldn't even breed a carrier...being in the health field I understand genetics to a point, but I am no expert. And while I am not looking to breed so if the dog was only a carrier but not affected it should be ok, if my understanding of genetics is correct. I am not sure though ethically how I feel about this.


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## hvgoldens4

Mayve said:


> Thank you for clearing that up for me...I had my two cocker's done, but that was years and years ago. And I readily admit to not really thinking anything more about it, I did it for me because I knew ppl whose Cocker's developed eye problems early and I had a few common links in my girls backround....
> 
> There is another dog though in her program who isn't even registered and I was looking at them both. I will ask her about the one who isn't registered and see if she just hasn't sent them in or if she infact didn't do this ones eyes.
> 
> I did see though, in the other dam who has the clearances registered that her sire had PRA genetically normal (just paraphrasing that) there was no mention with the dam. I have seen two thoughts....one is you can breed a carrier to a non carrier thus producing some clear and some carriers but never two carriers, and some say they shouldn't even breed a carrier...being in the health field I understand genetics to a point, but I am no expert. And while I am not looking to breed so if the dog was only a carrier but not affected it should be ok, if my understanding of genetics is correct. I am not sure though ethically how I feel about this.


If the sire is clear for PRA(there are now actually 3 forms of PRA and it is not a part of the COE that DNA testing be done) then even if he was mated to an affected dog, the worst the puppies would be is carriers. Carriers for the disease do not display any evidence of the disease so they are clear phenotypically. 

With DNA testing, with the sire being clear, all his direct offspring are "clear by parentage" because dad is clear and he cannot pass the diease on.

I would have no issue with having a carrier of any diease for a pet or even in a breeding program. The purpose of the DNA testing is the ability to stop producing affected offsspring and not have to eliminate affected's from the gene pool. We also cannot eliminate all carriers or we could be making some serious mistakes with limiting the number of dogs in the gene pool. While it seems like there are just 1,000's and 1,000's of goldens out there-and there are, all those goldens still descended from ONE breeding pair. So, every gene pool is limited. The point of DNA testing is to be able to use dogs who are carriers and even dogs who are affected. If an affected is bred to a normal, the worst the offspring will be are carriers. You will not get any affected offspring. So, this allows us to keep the gene pool larger by not eliminating that particular affected dog from the gene pool, so long as they have other good qualities to offer to the breed. A carrier can also be bred to a normal and never produce any affected offspring.


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## Mayve

Thank you again. That makes sense. As long as only one is a carrier or affected... the puppies will not be affected and some will be carriers and some clear..


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## mckf

Hi, I am currently researching on breeders. I read from some very early posts here about Hip clearance that, eg LR-140920G27M-PI , "G" stands for Good.

I received a Hip clearance from a breeder about the sire and he has: OFA GR-102908F24M-VPI ; can anyone explain to me what "F" here stands for??

p.s. This thread is really helpful  Thanks!


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## Buddy's mom forever

I am not an expert but I think F stands for "fair".


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## tippykayak

"F" is for "fair," in the number you posted, though be careful since "F" can stand for "female" when it comes at the end of the number.

Fair is a passing clearance which means there is no sign of disease. Some breeders won't breed fair/fair, but I actually don't mind a fair/fair breeding if the rest of the hip pedigree is complete and has lots of goods and/or excellents.


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## mckf

That is very helpful information. Thanks!


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## belindam

damita said:


> Sample OFA Hip report
> 
> As you will notice the dogs registered name and registration number is at the top - make sure this matches the pedigree and the other clearances. Age at evalution - make sure this matches too - if someone is trying to show you a clearance for a dog who was 5 when they had their hips done and the dog who is bred is only 2 you know it doesn't belong to that dog. the OFA number itself is a wealth of info - this one telling us that LR-140920G27M-PI is a Lab (LR) , 140920 means it was the 140920th dog to be submitted, has a "GOOD" rating (that is what the G stands for), was 27 months old when radiographed (this number will always be 24 or over), male (M) and was permanently identified by way of either a tatoo, microchip or DNA profile (PI) - if it says NOPI at the end that means that at the time the x-rays were taken that they could not confirm the identification of the dog.


Thank you so much for this information.


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## Marieg814

Good information here. I think I understand the PI at the end of the number, but what does VPI mean ?


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## Sally's Mom

VPI means a veterinarian verified the permanent identification.


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## Marieg814

Thanks Sally's mom. 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## dogloverforlife

I haven't read all the posts yet so excuse me if this was asked. Do you breeders get the hip x-rays done by your regular vet and have them send the shots off to OFA or do you go to a special vet?

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## cgriffin

Can a dog have a heart clearance and it not be listed under the OFA page with the other clearances?


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## SheetsSM

cgriffin said:


> Can a dog have a heart clearance and it not be listed under the OFA page with the other clearances?


Here's a thread that answers that: http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...12944-eyes-hearts-not-ofa-cerf-certified.html


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## cgriffin

Thank you!


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## melbatoast

I am still not sure what to be looking for on these clearances. I've been looking at offa.org, and I have seen some dogs with eye diagnosis which I'm assuming is a problem? Also, what about if it mentions arthritis on a young dog, I'm also assuming that is also a problem. I might be wrong, but I would think everything eyes, heart, elbow and hip should say normal for everything to really be normal with no problems right?


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## Tahnee GR

Hips should be Excellent, Good or Fair to be considered Normal; Borderline, Mild, Moderate and Severe are not normal and not considered to be passing. Elbows are Normal or given a grade indicating the degree of dysplasia

PennHip assigns numbers but makes no recommendations about breeding. The lower the score, the better.

Eyes can be given a clearance and still have Breeders Options, which means the vet observed something in the eye which is not currently considered an issue in this breed but which is being tracked. I would breed a dog with a Breeders Option but I personally would not want to double up on it.

Hearts either clear and are given a clearance, or are assigned a number based on the murmur being heard.


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## melbatoast

Thanks for the quick reply! What about when they name specific things with the eye, is that the breeder's option that you are talking about? Also, elbow - arthritis in a 2 yr old dog, is that normal??


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## cgriffin

When OFA only has hips listed, no elbows, what does it mean? 
Hips were done but elbows wee not?
Elbows were done but did not pass?
Elbows were done but not sent in?

Could be any of the above I guess? Are hips and elbows routinely done together for Goldens?


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## hvgoldens4

cgriffin said:


> When OFA only has hips listed, no elbows, what does it mean?
> Hips were done but elbows wee not?
> Elbows were done but did not pass?
> Elbows were done but not sent in?
> 
> Could be any of the above I guess? Are hips and elbows routinely done together for Goldens?


It depends 

You would need to talk to the owner/breeder of the dog and I am sure they would be happy to tell you what was/is happening if you were getting a puppy from a planned litter where such a dog was involved.

However, when studying pedigrees, it should also be noted that elbows were not a part of the COE until 2001. Some breeders then started doing them a few years later and some were already doing them, as is the case with all the new clearances when they become included with the COE. The same happened with hearts when they were added.


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## cgriffin

Thanks, I am not looking at a litter yet. 
I was just curious, while doing some research. 
Thank you!


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## Whinnie

*Do valid certificates have hips, heart, elbows and eyes on one cert?*

Do valid certifications have only one cert for hips, heart, elbows and eyes? Please see attached and let me know if this is valid.


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## Tahnee GR

That is a CHIC certificate, showing that all recommended health tests (per the applicable parent club) have been performed. You can see the individual clearances and check to make sure the dog passed them, at Orthopedic Foundation for Animals Just enter the dog's name or AKC number.

CHIC is explained here

Canine Health Information Center: CHIC Information

You will want to make sure that the eye clearance is recent. Eyes are to be checked every year. According to the CHIC, the eye clearance was done in 2009, so just make sure the breeder has an up to date eye clearance available.


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## Ashilee33

Wow all of this information is awesome! Thanks!


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## Susan1253

*"if it says NOPI at the end that means that at the time the x-rays were taken that they could not confirm the identification of the dog".

Just so I can be clear....this is not a good thing, right? Or is this common? It seems a way that someone can use a "good" dog's clearance for a bad purpose (although I would hate to think it I am guessing it happens).

Thanks 
*


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## Prism Goldens

NOPI means the dog is not permanently identified. I think this is somewhat unusual, and certainly if one wanted to take a ringer in, that'd be the way to do it! OTOH< I do have one puppy I produced w/out a chip, I chip all puppies but his owner didn't want one as she'd had a bad experience. I respected that and didn't chip him.
I also have one puppy from 2003 litter whose owner travels a great deal, and that bitch has 3 chips. I had put in a standard one, then she put in an international one, then I think it was Austria that required a particular one. All that to say, I think it is rare that a dog that's going to be bred (assuming here, since it was getting clearances) would not have a chip or tat. If the dog has a chip, and the vet doing the clearance didn't have a scanner, it would say PI. And if he verified it, VPI.


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## Tahnee GR

Susan1253 said:


> *"if it says NOPI at the end that means that at the time the x-rays were taken that they could not confirm the identification of the dog".
> 
> Just so I can be clear....this is not a good thing, right? Or is this common? It seems a way that someone can use a "good" dog's clearance for a bad purpose (although I would hate to think it I am guessing it happens).
> 
> Thanks
> *


It's not that uncommon. I know some of my guys didn't get their chips until they had their hips done and for some reason one of them got skipped. But yes, it would be one way for someone to bring in a "ringer."


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## Gratitude14

if I purchase a AKC pet grade Golden, may I ask for copies of mom & dads clearances 
or just look at them? Very useful link for a new-bee like me thank you!


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## Eowyn

Gratitude14 said:


> if I purchase a AKC pet grade Golden, may I ask for copies of mom & dads clearances
> or just look at them? Very useful link for a new-bee like me thank you!


 You should at least see them before putting down a deposit and then most reputable breeders include copies of the parents clearances in the puppy packet.


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## Prism Goldens

Gratitude14 said:


> if I purchase a AKC pet grade Golden, may I ask for copies of mom & dads clearances
> or just look at them? Very useful link for a new-bee like me thank you!


 
The breeder should give you a link to the parents' OFA pages-but even if not, if you know registered names you can go there and see them yourself. If you have any difficulty just speak up, someone will help you.
Do that before you commit to the litter!


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## bethlehemgolden

this is awesome!


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## jonjonlovesfood

Are Clarence's required to be submitted on the OFFA site as soon as testing is done? Because, I'm looking at an clearance from the site on a Golden Retriever, but the last text were done 2008-2012, which is old. So I'm wondering if it's required to be submitted to them or is it just not updated somehow? Or do people not submit it until the are breeding? If I ask to see the most recent clearance in person, would it be the one on the OFFA website or their newest one? How can I tell if it's legit or not because there's no relating information online (most updated).


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## Megora

Hips, elbows, and heart are just done once. 

Eyes should technically be done every year.


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## Tahnee GR

Very excited that k9data.com now links directly to OFA! Very cool.

Here is Romey's pedigree with the links, as an example:

Pedigree: Am/Can CH Tahnee's Play'N Heart To Get


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## Lynn5707

Thank you! That is very helpful!


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## MaureenM

That's is great, thanks for posting!


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## lhowemt

I recently was investigating a bitch that seemed to be missing some major clearances. It made no sense, then I found her name in offa with two spellings. Fwiw.


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## cgriffin

Thanks, Linda. That is awesome - makes it so much easier.


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## Megora

I'm bumping this up in part, but I think based on some of the craziness out there with people obviously doing their best to dupe puppy buyers and going all nuts trying to cover their rears.... that people who are doing the right thing by these dogs before and when they breed might want to get together and do a group project and make it a new sticky thread. 

1. Need updated picture examples of OFA certifications, including eyes clearances as they are now.

2. Need dumbed down instructions on how to look dogs up on offa.org to verify clearances.

3. Need dumbed down instructions on how to look up dogs on AKC.org to verify points and titles.

4. Need dumbed down instructions on the steps to take when looking for a puppy. 

5. Need examples of good hips and bad hips. Rads. Ditto elbows.

6. Need an explanation of what Penn Hipp is and how on earth you can verify that the hip clearances done by the breeder are legit and what the number means. As far as I understand (unless I'm confused here), it is a grade. There's no such thing as passing or non-passing. Somebody could claim a dog got Penn Hipp clearances done on both hips and elbows... a prospective buyer would at least know the person was lying on the basis of elbows, but I think we need a simple explanation on how to verify those clearances with a breeder and have a translation to the better understood fair/good/excellent passing grades. 

7. Need an example of European clearances and how to look these up in a database, if any. 

8. Buyer beware info on CKC (continental kennel club) and others like that. 

And dumbed down being pictures, scanned images, and simplified info embedded in the thread itself. 

If somebody decides to breed immature dogs.... or somebody decides to purchase from a breeder who does stuff like that, it's their choice to do so. But it should be an educated choice.

^ This might get rolled eyes early in the morning, but it just is frustrating to see people being misled. There are sticky threads on this forum (this thread and the puppy buyer fact checker) - but they could be better. Or updated the very least.


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## LJack

Megora said:


> If somebody decides to breed immature dogs.... or somebody decides to purchase from a breeder who does stuff like that, it's their choice to do so. But it should be an educated choice.
> 
> ^ This might get rolled eyes early in the morning, but it just is frustrating to see people being misled. There are sticky threads on this forum (this thread and the puppy buyer fact checker) - but they could be better. Or updated the very least.


YES, this! Everyone should be able to make their best decision. That means having accurate information. It is bad enough when poor breeding practices are masked by omission/withholding, it is unacceptable when un-reputable breeders out right lie about something a buyer could check themselves if they knew how.

I have actually been working on a peice of eLearning to go someday on my website. I am still building it and it is in its draft from, it is already more than 30 pages long!

How are buyers supposed to know that they don't know more that 40 pages(I am guessing, it could be far more) of information? Finding a reputable breeder is just plain hard if you don't already know how.


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## Ljilly28

It is amazing the degree to which poor breeding practices can go on and the website still has a GRCA Member Logo saying they support the COE.


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## bethlehemgolden

what would be great a nice youtube video.


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## skyqueen

Thank you all so much for sharing that information, it is very helpful.


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## bethlehemgolden

http://youtu.be/u7zJOlCzQ4s

How does this look?


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## Dancer

What is the minimum age for a heart clearance? I know elbows/hips aren't legit unless done at/after 24 months of age, and eyes are yearly in a breeding dog- but I notice a lot of heart clearances at around a year old?


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## tippykayak

Dancer said:


> What is the minimum age for a heart clearance? I know elbows/hips aren't legit unless done at/after 24 months of age, and eyes are yearly in a breeding dog- but I notice a lot of heart clearances at around a year old?


The CoE says 12 months or older for hearts.


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## bethlehemgolden

I adjusted my you tube video. Does anyone like it? Should I change anything about it? http://youtu.be/u7zJOlCzQ4s


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## mehouse

Like the info and video, thanks!


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## MBaiko

*hip dysplasia - Alzimm Kennels*

dogs from this breeder are know to get hip dysplasia


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## miantosca

Do you typically get to see these certifications before picking up the puppy，


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## flatcoated

miantosca said:


> Do you typically get to see these certifications before picking up the puppy，



Ideally, all clearances should be recorded and therefore publicly searchable/available in the Orthopedic Association for Animals web database (search by dogs' registered names, something any breeder should be willing to provide) at www.offa.org, so at the outset, this is often the easiest way to check health certifications.

OFA actually does the grading for hip and elbow clearances, so if done, these should definitely be discoverable online. Some breeders don't send in the paperwork and recording fee to list heart and eye clearances in the database. If you see some clearances but not heart and/or eyes, you can ask the breeder if they have paperwork demonstrating that the clearances have been done but not recorded and request to see documentation.

Most people who have submitted clearances to the OFA will also have copies of the official certificates on hand and should be happy to share them. Many responsible breeders include copies of all OFA certificates for sire and dam in the paperwork that is provided to puppy buyers. When I picked up my dog, for example, I was given a binder that included photocopies of the parents' health certificates, official pedigrees, title certifications from the AKC/CKC, etc.


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## Figtoria

I am so glad I found this site. It never occurred to me for a moment that breeders would put up fake clearances!


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## hvgoldens4

If the clearances are listed on the OFA website, they are not and cannot be faked. It is best to always ask for a link to the OFA. Please do not use K9data to verify clearance information, as anyone can add information to that website and so unfortunately, there is wrong information on the site. It gets changed by the admins when they find it or are notified, but since xrays have to be submitted to the OFA for hip and elbow clearances and exam forms must be submitted for eye and heart clearances, that is the best place to find the information.


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## Maura

This is really helpful! Thank you!


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## Iloveanimals2016

damita said:


> Should we start a thread with examples of what real clearances look like? Seeing that we keep preaching that if clearances are not easily verified on the OFA or CERF websites that puppy buyers should ask to see the clearances in person- should we show them what they are looking for? The difference between prelims and actual clearances and how to read them? Maybe we could turn this into a sticky eventually?
> 
> K - I found examples of the hips, elbows and heart from the OFA website but if anyone has an example of pennhip or OVC or a CERF exam handy feel free to add them as well - if you are worried about someone trying to falsify your records PM me and I can photoshop a watermark onto it first.


Hi! I'm new to the forum. I am planning to get a puppy from Nautilus Golden Retrievers in MA. Are you (and anyone else) familiar with this breeder? She's active in the show ring. Her dogs are beautiful. When I've attempted to search K9data.com for testing results on her dogs, I can't find. The dad is "Timber" and the mom is either "Tatum" or "Doodlebug". I hate to bother her for more information because she seemed defensive and annoyed I was asking for it. I'm not questioning her integrity, etc. I just want to have the testing information on the parents. She also said they were listed with "Pawprints Genetics" as well. Her partner is the vet she uses.

Thanks so much. Right now we've left a $300 deposit. She says there's "no health warranty" because unexpected things can happen and she can't control or know what conditions her puppies are subjected to once they leave her kennel. She says she "does the right thing" when working with those that get her dogs. 

Any advice, information if you know her or her dogs would be hugely helpful. We have been waiting a long time for a puppy. The other kennel we have been hoping to get one from is Twin Beau D Kennels in MA. I'm to check back with her in September to see if there will be a puppy in early 2017 (or get the one we have a deposit on with Nautilus Goldens).


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## Altairss

its best to start a new thread asking your question so more people will see it. K9 data is customer data base and not everyone uses it and it would be under the dogs registered name. To find out clearances you need the registered name of the dog to look them up on the OFA.org website. You can also put Nautilus in the search at the top of the page and look for other people that are familiar with them. A breeder might be busy but should be willing to send you the registered names or provide you with that information to check and verify clearances or to provide you with copies with your puppies.


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## Altairss

Pedigree: Am. CH. Nautilus Daddy's Little Girl

Call name doodlebug


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## Altairss

Call name is Timber. Not sure if these are the right dogs without knowing their registered names but if you search kennel name on k9 lots of their dogs are coming up
Pedigree: CH Nautilus Timber


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## ArchersMom

There is at least one thread about Nautilus on the forum, just use the search feature to find it. Regardless of reputation, you shouldn't feel like an inconvenience to your breeder. They should be the first person you go to with questions about your pup for it's entire lifetime.


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## TexasGold

Thanks for posting this information! As a new buyer, trying to evaluate these clearances can be over whelming.


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## LJack

*Important changes to the PennHIP Report*

December 15, 2016

Dear PennHIP member,

The AIS PennHIP report has a new format.

Chief among the changes is the removal of the percentile ranking. The percentile ranking had some weaknesses and to many dog owners it was extremely confusing. The percentile ranking is a way to compare a dog's DI against the other dogs in its breed. But it does not take into account the actual magnitude of the dog's distraction index (DI). For example, a dog from a loose–hipped breed may indeed be among the tightest 10% in its breed and still have what is considered to be a loose hip at high risk for OA. The percentile ranking isn't good at showing this. Also, the percentile ranking was not able to illustrate the distribution of hip laxity within a given breed. Some breeds of dogs have hip laxity that clusters tightly around the average so that a dog with a DI of 0.50 may be in the 50th percentile for the breed while a dog with a DI of 0.40, though close to a 0.50, might be in the 80th percentile. Selection pressure for breeding purposes is calculated based on the DI of the parents not on the percentile ranking. So in this example there is very little selection pressure based on DI: The percentile ranking would incorrectly suggest otherwise.

*What's new in the AIS PennHIP report?*
The report is now a web-based document (HTML). It can be viewed from your computer like a web page or printed as a hard copy for your client. The report often contains comments meant for you, but not your client. You will have the option to exclude these comments from the official client copy.

We have added OA risk categories. Through our research, we are able to estimate the risk for OA (Low, Mild, Moderate, High) based upon the value of the DI.

In place of the percentile ranking we have added a graph that compares the patient DI against

1. The overall laxity (DI) across the DI scale
2. The breed average DI
3. The central 90% range of the breeds DI's
4. The patient's OA risk

The new graph provides a better understanding of a dog's overall hip laxity and its laxity within its respective breed. The graph also resolves many of the problems associated with the percentile ranking.

*[Image Displayed Below]*

Here is an example of a Belgian Malinois with a DI = 0.26 (patient DI is the solid circle). The gray strip represents the central 90% range of the DI's for Belgian Malinois (0.21–0.56). The black square represents the breed average (0.34).

For this patient, the degree of laxity (DI = 0.26) falls within the central 90% range of DI's for Belgian Malinois (within the gray strip). The patient DI is tighter than the breed average, tight enough to place the hip at low risk of developing hip OA.

The position of the central 90% range along the Distraction Index access shows the relative "tightness" of Belgian Malinois breed when compared to the DI distributions of other dog breeds (not shown on this plot).

Also added to the report is a rather extensive "Interpretation/Recommendation" section based on the dogs a risk for developing OA. It provides referenced, evidence-based treatment strategies to aid you in managing OA and the risk of OA going forward. The PennHIP Manual is also a source for this information. 

Breeding recommendations remain the same: Any dog with a DI tighter than the breed average and not showing radiographic hip OA at the time of evaluation is considered a candidate for breeding (of course in the context of other desirable traits).

We hope that you find this example informative.

Sincerely,

Antech Imaging Services
PennHIP


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## Mehreen Mazhar

All of these details were so helpful to read through. I cannot thank all of you enough for providing your expertise. I am still searching for the perfect puppy still but when I have found one, I'll definitely run the information by all of you experts to get your opinion before finalizing it. 


Thanks!


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## dlmrun2002

Good stuff. Thanks for posting.

dlm


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## Linny523

*Clearances versus DNA*

Hi, I am trying to understand my Goldens' pedigrees. What is the significance of having a dogs DNA examined or submitted? Does it relate in any way to health clearances? Can you have your dogs DNA examined in lieu of clearances? Thank you for clearing up this confusion for me.


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## ArchersMom

Linny523 said:


> Hi, I am trying to understand my Goldens' pedigrees. What is the significance of having a dogs DNA examined or submitted? Does it relate in any way to health clearances? Can you have your dogs DNA examined in lieu of clearances? Thank you for clearing up this confusion for me.


DNA testing is not a substitute for clearances. They can't tell you anything about a dogs hips, elbows or heart. Are you familiar at all with ichthyosis, or any of the types of PRA? Take a look at the genetic tests recommended for goldens. OptiGen Breed/Test List A-M

There are other testing companies, this is just the one I used and I found their "disease explanation" pages to be helpful.


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## razor488

I hesitate to ask this question because I don't want to be yelled at - but would some consider finding a puppy who has multi generational health clearances overkill for a family pet? I definitely want a pet that is healthy and will live as long as possible, but I am finding that MOST puppies for sale do not have complete health clearances. I take it that MOST dog owners do not have dogs with all of their health clearances.


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## Prism Goldens

If you're going to buy a $500 dog, no. 
If you're putting 2k + into the dog, yes.


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## Megora

razor488 said:


> I take it that MOST dog owners do not have dogs with all of their health clearances.


This is true.

But if you are going to _breed _a dog - you should get clearances.


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## razor488

What if you aren't going to breed the dog and you are only looking for a healthy pet?


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## ArchersMom

The short of it is, if you want a HEALTHY pet you want to see a long history of complete clearances. I'm capitalizing for emphasis, not to yell at anyone. Clearances have nothing to do with being a show dog; they exist only to help breed the healthiest animal possible. It's not a guarantee that a puppy won't have a health issue but it makes the best odds of a healthy puppy. Does that make sense? 

Sure you can find a puppy for $500 that never saw the inside of a house or pay a little more and get a puppy from someone's pet that appears healthy but you'd never really know if the pups parents have hip or elbow dysplaysia unless it's severe. There are dogs out there whom will never limp but they may have mild dysplaysia and end up with painful arthritis down the road. You just can't tell by sight alone.


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## LJack

*New OFA screenshots*

OFA recently updated their website and I have created new screenshots to share. It seams to function better on a desktop but you can still dig around in the phone or tablet version to get what you need.


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## jstkathy5

*Breeder Options Noted*

This sticky is so helpful. Thank you to everyone who contributed to all the information, links, and photos!

I read through all 13 pages of this sticky to make sure I wasn't going to ask a question already addressed and there was one reference to Breeder Options not being a deal breaker (my words, not the members) but other than that, I couldn't find anything.

Specifically I am concerned curious about notations like these examples (I've seen others like these)

NORMAL W/BREEDER OPTIONS NOTED A3istichiasis

NORMAL W/BREEDER OPTIONS NOTED
E1:Cataract - Suspect Not Inherited

The notations on Cataracts that I have always seen state "suspect not inherited"

My questions to the members are:

1. What do the A:3 and E:1 references before the condition indicate?
2. Who states "suspect not inherited" in the notation?
3. Are these conditions "deal breakers" and if not, what kinds of things should I/we look for that might/can be deal breakers?

Thank you all for your help! 

Kathy


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## Prism Goldens

A codes are to do with eyelids.
B to do with nictitans
C to do with the cornea
D to do with the iris
E- lens
F-vitreous
G-fundus

A3 is distichia
E1 is cataract suspect not genetic

There are other cataracts, but they do not have the suspects not genetic notation- the ophthalmologist is the one who checks that off, and really he is looking to be sure it is not a juvenile cataract which has a typical shape, location and IS genetic.


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## Prism Goldens

https://www.ofa.org/diseases/eye-certification/breeder-option-codes


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## Prism Goldens

https://www.ofa.org/diseases/eye-certification/breeder-option-codes and to me, a deal breaker would be sire and dam both having B/O...


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## jstkathy5

Thank you Robin for the very helpful links!


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## Mermaid62

Tahnee GR said:


> Here is an example of a Cardiology Report done by a Cardiologist


Thanks ! Please remember there are lots of people like myself that have no clue what a “ clearance “ is ? ( until now!) I had no idea you could get health checks fro breeders , only guarantees etc so this forum is helping me so much! I did what someone recommended first and read the “ what us am English cream?” 
that def needs to be the first thing newbies read prior to choosing a dog or breeder ! 
the “ family” breeder I thought looked so good (and my neighbor recommended) turns out to be a horrible breeder! 
you nice people have already helped save me much headache and $$


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## Prism Goldens

Here are a few things that have come up here lately-
1. OFA prelims do not come in 'ranges' like, "OFA prelim fair to good"... they just don't.
2. CH pedigree means nothing. Effectively, every single dog has a CH somewhere back there, and if a breeder isn't putting *AKC or Canadian *CH on their dogs, no other CH means much, and they are adding value that probably isn't deserved. AKC CH sire or CH dam does mean something.
3. DNA is not a clearance. There are very few diseases we have DNA testing for, and DNA is just a tool to avoid creating affected for those diseases.
4. Prelims are not clearances. Only 24+mo of age evals count.
5. Color breeders are not good breeders. I literally cannot think of a single one who mentions 'eng creme, white goldens, whatever' on their site who are good breeders. Coincidentally, many of these also have Bible verses throughout. I see Bible verses as red flags (meant to comfort the viewer as to the breeder's honesty).
6. Titles matter. Without involvement through competition, a breeder does not have any way of judging their animals besides their own faulty eyes.
7. There is NO reason to breed underaged, ever.
8. Elbows- Goldens are sporting dogs. Failed elbows are failed because of structure and not because they ran stairs as a pup or stepped in a hole as a young dog. If whatever accident is being claimed doesn't have backup via ortho vet, it is probably imaginary and an excuse to breed anyway a dog with less than solid joints.
9.practitioner (pet vet) heart exams are fine for some breeds, but NOT Goldens. Yes, OFA will issue a cert done by a p(ractitioner) rather than a c(ardiologist)- but that doesn't mean it is adequate. It's not, it never will be.
10. importing of uteruses from eastern Europe to use to make white dogs is not good practice.


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## Megora

Prism Goldens said:


> 10. importing of uteruses from eastern Europe to use to make white dogs is not good practice.


Likewise importing underage studs with "full clearances" with results too good to believe considering how ungainly some of these dogs are) from countries in eastern europe (but still called English lol).


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## goldenpaws4Cal

What does a report from Pawprint Genetics look like? Is there a PDF that they send with all the results?


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## Prism Goldens

goldenpaws4Cal said:


> What does a report from Pawprint Genetics look like? Is there a PDF that they send with all the results?


Here is the report from PP on a dog (Embark's looks totally different):


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## goldenpaws4Cal

Prism Goldens said:


> Here is the report from PP on a dog (Embark's looks totally different):
> View attachment 890990


Thanks! I've seen them displayed this way on their site. Do they have any sort of downloadable PDF and would it ever not include the Paw Print logo on it? Just wondering.


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## Prism Goldens

They're suing someone right now who falsified a cert and one of the aspects of the suit as I understand it is the logo. 
I do not think it would ever not have it in some form. I've never downloaded mine. Why do you ask?


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## goldenpaws4Cal

Prism Goldens said:


> They're suing someone right now who falsified a cert and one of the aspects of the suit as I understand it is the logo.
> I do not think it would ever not have it in some form. I've never downloaded mine. Why do you ask?


Sending a PM


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## goldenpaws4Cal

What do Embark genetic results look like?


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