# Question: Flow Chart?



## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

I'm in the "basics" stage with a couple of my youngsters, sort of following the Total Retriever Flow Chart developed by Mike Lardy Training Flow Chart (of course, it's founded on the program developed by Rex Carr). I'm just curious as to how many people on the forum (i) are aware of the Flow Chart and (ii) follow the Flow Chart?

Frankly, in my opinion it's a tremendous guideline to follow, whether strictly or "sort of," with each element laying another stepping stone for progressive training. As mentioned above, I "sort of" follow it, but don't always hit each step along the way, depending on how I read the needs of the dog that I'm training. (I stopped doing stick fetch altogether because I realized that it was causing my dogs to become shy of a heeling stick, which I find more useful as a guide or for a gentle tap to address head-swinging ... but that's just me.)

So, yes or no on the Flow Chart?

FTGoldens


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

Connie Cleveland also has a sort of flow chart. Not sure hers is about milestones as much as helping you know which things you can train at the same time so that the exercises reinforce each other .

I loved her training CD's and the book as well. Can't say I followed the chart very well. But it's good information.

My girl was having a real hard time with focus training and therefore problems with heeling. So I just moved on to dumbbell training and jumps. We went back to heeling after I figured out why she was having trouble and used a different method. Which of course totally blew the flow chart 

It's great you are setting goals! Just remember it's supposed to be fun and the dog didn't get a copy of the chart! Each exercise takes as long as your dog needs to master it.


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## Edward Lee Nelson (Jan 2, 2017)

Yes, it is my guideline, each dog is different though as to how much time is spent on each area. I don’t do stick fetch but the stick is used almost exclusively for line obedience ie steadiness and creeping etc.and heeling to the line. I massage the dog with the stick at 3-4 months old during basic obedience daily so they respect the stick and aren’t afraid of it.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

I like Lardy's chart for force fetch and pile work flow. It works the best for me.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Mike Lardy's flow chart seems to be a logical series of steps but they can be modified.

And like the Pirate's Code, "more what you call "guidelines" than actual _rules_".


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

Edward Lee Nelson said:


> Yes, it is my guideline, each dog is different though as to how much time is spent on each area. I don’t do stick fetch but the stick is used almost exclusively for line obedience ie steadiness and creeping etc.and heeling to the line. I massage the dog with the stick at 3-4 months old during basic obedience daily so they respect the stick and aren’t afraid of it.


It seems that you and I train in very similar fashions, which is interesting (but probably shouldn't be surprising) since we both started messing with these mutts in the pre-collar days.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Yes I follow Lardy's flowchart for the steps from FF through running cold blinds. Yes I will tweak things (i.e. Slater never did double T, Bally did super extended swim-by and force over points, just extensions of the steps), but as far as the order, I follow it religiously.
It makes my eye twitch when someone says they are going to go run pattern blinds with their dog not out of FF yet...OMGggggg
I only wish there was such an easy to follow, step-by-step process for teaching marking concepts!!!!


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## Edward Lee Nelson (Jan 2, 2017)

FTGoldens said:


> It seems that you and I train in very similar fashions, which is interesting (but probably shouldn't be surprising) since we both started messing with these mutts in the pre-collar days.


FT Goldens, The older I get (not that old) the more I value the training I received from being a poop scooper, bird thrower and doing obedience with the some of the dogs I was blessed to be around. I had no clue as a teenager who I was working for or the dogs I was lucky enough to be around. I really feel the non collar days has helped me to teach Goldens where as labs you could basically force through training. Very Blessed!


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