# Help!!!. . . Dog Growls and Bears Teeth



## mylspen (Mar 14, 2011)

Sound like the dog does not like to always like be touched for some reason.

How about a little training with a shock collar?


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## Harper (Mar 21, 2011)

mylspen said:


> Sound like the dog does not like to always like be touched for some reason.
> 
> How about a little training with a shock collar?


 
Is this appropriate? I would have a hard time using a shock collar even though I know the shock is weak. But your reply ultimately suggests to scold her. IDK. What do others think?


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

Is it possible she has pain in her hind area somewhere? That might explain the reaction at the vet and when being touched there. Personally, I would exhaust any medical explanation before using an e-collar to randomly shock a 6 month old puppy when she's already clearly aggravated about something. JMHO. (And I have no problems with e-collars being used properly/appropriately for training, generally.)


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## FinnTastic (Apr 20, 2009)

Bumping up for some trainers. I don't think a shock collar is appropriate in this situation. I would find a trainer and possibly a vet behaviorist.
Also make sure there isn't something else going on medically. Did the vet say anything?


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## Harper (Mar 21, 2011)

FinnTastic said:


> Bumping up for some trainers. I don't think a shock collar is appropriate in this situation. I would find a trainer and possibly a vet behaviorist.
> Also make sure there isn't something else going on medically. Did the vet say anything?


The vet didn"t say there was anyting wrong with her. . . in fact, she grew very concerned as well saying Goldens are usually so patient. This certainly didn't make me feel any better.


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## FinnTastic (Apr 20, 2009)

I agree with Goldenjackpuppy. I would see if there is something wrong. Maybe she has some skin sensitivity or thyroid problem . . I don't know. I'm sure more experienced members can give some suggestions.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

I was thinking more along the lines of joint issues, actually. But I would investigate all of these suggestions.


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## FinnTastic (Apr 20, 2009)

goldenjackpuppy said:


> I was thinking more along the lines of joint issues, actually. But I would investigate all of these suggestions.


Yeah, this is a good suggestion.


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## nixietink (Apr 3, 2008)

Harper said:


> Is this appropriate? I would have a hard time using a shock collar even though I know the shock is weak. But your reply ultimately suggests to scold her. IDK. What do others think?


Absolutely NO on the shock collar with this problem. If it is fear based, you will just make the fear worse...

I'm also thinking joint problems if the aggression is more prominent when being touched on the dog's hind end.


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## Mirinde (Jun 8, 2011)

I'm also going to suggest a medical workup. Especially because one thing jumped out at me... you say she was on the table at the vet. How large is she at 6 months old? My pup is five months old and the vet would not think to try to put him on the table for a basic exam. She just sits on the floor with him because he's too big to really comfortably put on the table. If she has some pain issues going on (especially joint), the process of being picked up and having her weight displaced uncomfortably and then being made to stay on a slippery table may have been way too much for her.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

mylspen said:


> Sound like the dog does not like to always like be touched for some reason.
> 
> How about a little training with a shock collar?


What?!!! Absolutely NOT, you will only make this problem worse by handling it with shock collars or punishment.

Please contact a certified veterinary behaviorist for help.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

First, I am so sorry that you're having problems with your puppy, I know how upseting this is and truly sympathize. Good advice here on an immediate and thorough exam and going from there. In the mean time, please be sure you warn your kids that you think Harper is not feeling well and they are not to go near her. Do you have a crate and baby gates to keep her apart from your kids until you have a handle on what's going on? Since she went so far as to snap at the vet, I think she needs very careful management with your kids. You don't want something to go wrong when your back is just turned for a second.


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## Mirinde (Jun 8, 2011)

"*You don't want something to go wrong when your back is just turned for a second." 

*That's a really good point, I agree with this. When we were dealing with aggression issues with Iorek, both our vet and our behaviorist made it very clear that avoiding an issue was the best thing to do while we waited for training/help/evaluation. Avoiding an altercation is a lot less damaging than having an altercation and responding to it poorly in the heat of the moment or without proper advice.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> At the vet last week, she became frustrated with having to stay on the table when the vet looked her over and growled very agressivley, and tried to bite the vets hand. The vet put a nuzzle on her for the remainder of the exam.
> 
> When napping, my wife will pet Harper on the head, but when she pets her hind area, HArper will begin growling. If she won't come to us when called and we attempt to move her, she will growl and bear her teeth.


I second the other poster about the vet putting her on the table. That's insane. 

And while I suspect the growling/snapping is _learned behavior_ that has been getting worse over time while she's tested and sassed you while playing and gotten away with it, the fact that she's doing it when your wife touches her rear makes me think that something is wrong healthwise and she needs a thorough check up.


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

I am guessing since the dog is now 6 months that this is not the 1st vet visit. How has the dog been before at the vet? Nervous? Is this an all of a sudden thing or has this just gotten worse?

If it seems to be that he growls only when being touched toward the rear...I would have to do some radiographs of hips. This is just what I would do. Also, would do bloodwork. I would want to rule out any medical problems before moving on.


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## Lennap (Jul 9, 2010)

I am 100% in agreement to have this checked out medically first. My golden would get growly when I touched his hind end too - actually if I touched his hind end and a little higher - so I made a vet appt and asked that they xray both areas, thinking I was probably looking at orthopedic issues in his hips and spine (and he is young).

My vet tried to talk me out of spending the money at first and told me it was a training issue. I told her to humor me, it was my money. Well she came out and told me good news/bad news. Orthopedically his is fabulous, but his spleen appeared to have a mass.

They left him knocked out (had to sedate him for the xrays) and I rushed him up to the hospital for an ultrasound and ultimately a splenectomy. He had a splenic torsion (twist) which is usually not caught until it ruptures and the dog typically bleeds out.

Do not ignore stuff like this - while not always, but sometimes your dog is trying to tell you something that you need to know! Once you rule out all medical possibilities, then and only then would I agree that you need to work on training your dog to allow you to touch him everywhere.

Good luck!


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

Is she routinely 'pulled back' toward you by her hips/waist when she scoots away even if in fun? By either the kids or the adults in the family?

The reason I ask is that I worked with a family that had a cocker - the kids were 7 & 9-ish. One child would 'catch' her by her waist/hips as she was scooting by or if she tried to move away from him. It wasn't mean or malicious...he just didn't know better and he wanted to snuggle with the puppy. It didn't happen all the time and the parents while observant just didn't make the connection. Initially the pup didnt care...but in a matter of a couple of weeks - she made it very clear to the child and everyone else, that she did not like to be touched anywhere near her waist/hips. When she learned that she could get people to back off with her teeth...she found other creative ways to use them to communicate.


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## mylspen (Mar 14, 2011)

If simple petting in the hind end makes him growl because of pain, then you would think that he would have a hard time getting up, running, walking and jumping. Does he have that problem? I just think he just doesn't like to be touched there. IMO


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Lennap - I'm so glad you caught that in time!


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## Harper (Mar 21, 2011)

mylspen said:


> If simple petting in the hind end makes him growl because of pain, then you would think that he would have a hard time getting up, running, walking and jumping. Does he have that problem? I just think he just doesn't like to be touched there. IMO


Harper is very active and doesn't have any difficulty getting around . . . the growling occurs when she is sleeping/resting and she is petting or disturbed in some way. The kids nor the parents don't grab her from behind and pull her to us. It appears to me that she doesn't like to be bothered when resting and gives a growl. She's been to the vet several times and is generally excited when there as she likes to sniff and explore new things. It when she is frustrated and not getting her way that we hear the growling or when she is sleepy. It just surprises me b/c Goldens are supposed to be so loving.


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## Mirinde (Jun 8, 2011)

I think it's kind of unfortunate that Golden's have this reputation of being an infallible breed. It seems like as soon as a Golden has a temper issue, they're automatically labeled as a problem dog or something because the expectations are absurdly high in comparison to other dog breeds. 

Regardless of what's causing Harper's grumpylumpy attitude, I'm sure you two can overcome it with proper training and care if medical reasons have been ruled out. Don't get too discouraged, every puppy is a different puppy with different attitudes! Harper may simply be more headstrong than your last Golden and require more attentive and deliberate training (if it's a training issue).


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Find yourself a good trainer who uses positive reinforcement techniques (not shock collars or other forms of punishment and compulsion) and get enrolled in a class and ideally, add a private lesson or two to the mix. It's not about showing him who's boss. It's about finding what's causing him to react aggressively and changing how he feels about that situation. If you punish the growl, you're only treating the symptom, not the cause. This may well make the symptoms go dormant for a while, but they'll eventually come back and generally will be worse than before b/c now the original problem has the excess baggage of the punishment on board.

Sounds like your pup could benefit from some desensitization and counter conditioning for handling (being touched/disturbed, etc.). In the meantime, one exercise YOU could practice (not the kids, for now) would be when you see him resting, say his name to wake him up (don't touch him, just say his name) and as soon as his eyes are open, toss his a yummy treat. It's the very, very beginning of desensitizing to being "disturbed" when resting.

Then, of course, teach the kids to respect the old adage, "let sleeping dogs lie." Dogs are entitled to some rest time w/o always being nudged, bothered by the kids. We want to train him to not react aggressively so when it occasionally happens, it's not a big deal -- yet we still don't want to make bothering him while resting a habit. Make sense?

I'd also have you generally pair petting with treats. One hand lets him nibble yummy treats while the other hand pets all along his body. Do you feel you could safely do this w/o him reacting aggressively? If not, don't do it. It's only going to work if you can keep him sub-threshold -- i.e., keep him FROM reacting.

But the best advice is to get qualified, in person help. What you describe sounds workable, but aggression isn't something to mess around with on the Internet - especially in a home with kids.


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## paula bedard (Feb 5, 2008)

I agree, you should contact a behaviorist about this, and I hope it's a quick fix for this behavior. You cannot be too careful when children are in the household.

My son's pup did this once to me. He was about 6 months old also. I was trying to get something from him and he started to growl at me. I was so surprised at this behavior that instead of reacting fearfully, I blurted out 'don't you growl at me;, took the object from him and gave him a time out (a quiet few minutes away from us, usually in my bathroom with the light on.) I think my reaction to his behavior stopped whatever might have become a future problem. Pups like to test boundaries and go through phases of pushing limits. I hope that is what your pup is doing and you are able to stop this now before it escalates.

Good luck.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Have you talked to her breeder about this?


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## Lennap (Jul 9, 2010)

I still stand by my suggestion to get xrays - Remy had no issues getting around, jumping and whatnot. The only times he was a little growly was when he was resting, most commonly in the sphynx position but not exclusively, and I would rest my hand on his back or hind quarters. The xray did not diagnosis, but it showed a problem. It can't hurt.

Once you are 1000% positive there are no medical issues - then I agree you really need some professional help. Sounds like you have yourself a bright, inquisitive, wonderful golden who is just beginning to push her limits. Even "perfect" children do this upon occassion - it's how they learn. 

My experience with goldens (as with all smart dogs and kids) is that they will always test - we just have to learn how to deal with it. I'm not convince jumping straight to an e-collar is the right answer, but it may be, I don't know the dog - a trainer would be better able to assess the situation.

Good luck to you and Harper!


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