# I called the police



## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

did you stay around to find out if the police did anything?


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

Waited til they came, i left, she made me so mad.


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## amy22 (May 11, 2008)

Good for you!!!


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

How dumb can people be!? There are so many warnings out there about doing that!! I hope the police arrived quickly and took care of it.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

It is so very hot today, she had a attitude, driving a range rover, just made me so upset.


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## Sweet Summer Time (Nov 24, 2010)

you did the right thing! Thanks for not turning your back and getting involved!


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## Looni2ns (Mar 26, 2010)

What a prima donna, first class idiot. Hope the police put the dog in their AC-cooled car, towed her heap, and left her to stand in the sun. She deserves a sign.


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## lgnutah (Feb 26, 2007)

Certainly I don't have any intention of leaving Brooks in car on 100 degree day, but I wonder if it is any hotter inside a car parked in the shade, with windows down, than it is outside of the car, in the shade?


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## iansgran (May 29, 2010)

It might be cooler inside the car for a few minutes if the air conditioning had been running, but after a bit I am sure it would be hotter because of the green house effect, since there are still windows and some of the heat increase because of the windows isn't getting back out. Thank you for helping the poor dog.


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## janine (Aug 8, 2009)

Good for you


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

My initial thought was ack! On 80-90 degree days I've left my dog in the car while I run into the pet store for treats on class days. This is a petstore nearest to the highway and unfortunately one that my dog refuses to enter because the sliding doors bang when they open. 

I've been called out by people before - this one time especially when my dog was outside for less than a minute when somebody pulled up next to my car and came storming into the store. I was standing in the checkout and handing over my money at the time. 

But if this was a grocery store and the person was obviously going to be in the store longer than a couple minutes, definitely I totally agree and have to give Goldensrbest props for standing up for that dog, saying something to the owner and following up by calling the police. That's awesome<:


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

I would never, leave a dog in a car, at 80, let alone 100, shade or not, just dumb.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Several years ago, I had someone come rushing in at closing time with a DOA Eng. Bulldog. It was 7 PM and at least 80 plus degrees outside. She(clearly a genius) had left the dog in the car WITH the windows rolled down, while she had her hair done....

And last year, one of the summer residents took his ancient Brittany with severe laryngeal paralysis for a walk on the beach in the heat of the day. Between the heat stroke and the laryngeal disease, it was a nightmare. We had to intubate her awake!! so she could get oxygen.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

lgnutah said:


> Certainly I don't have any intention of leaving Brooks in car on 100 degree day, but I wonder if it is any hotter inside a car parked in the shade, with windows down, than it is outside of the car, in the shade?


Yes, because the heat is trapped and the temperature rises inside a metal box, and there is no circulation, windows down even all the way down don't provide enough airflow.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

What is it with people, she clearly, was thinking, i would not call her bluff, she happen to pull up next to the wrong person, for that.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Sally's Mom said:


> Several years ago, I had someone come rushing in at closing time with a DOA Eng. Bulldog. It was 7 PM and at least 80 plus degrees outside. She(clearly a genius) had left the dog in the car WITH the windows rolled down, while she had her hair done....
> 
> And last year, one of the summer residents took his ancient Brittany with severe laryngeal paralysis for a walk on the beach in the heat of the day. Between the heat stroke and the laryngeal disease, it was a nightmare. We had to intubate her awake!! so she could get oxygen.


I will never understand how people can be so brain dead!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Sally's Mom said:


> Several years ago, I had someone come rushing in at closing time with a DOA Eng. Bulldog. It was 7 PM and at least 80 plus degrees outside. She(clearly a genius) had left the dog in the car WITH the windows rolled down, while she had her hair done....


That's horrible!  

It's one thing for any dog owner to do something this stupid, but you'd think somebody with an English bulldog would know better than put her dog through that. Those dogs overheat so fast... 



> I would never, leave a dog in a car, at 80, let alone 100, shade or not, just dumb.


I think it depends on how quickly the owner anticipates getting in and out of the store. I mean there's no difference between leaving my dog in the car at the petstore and leaving my dog in the car at the gas station. *The gas station fill up actually takes longer than running into the petstore to grab treats and pay. *


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Megora, I would have confronted you in the store and I would have told you what I think about leaving your dog in the car. Suffice it to say it would not be pretty. As a stranger, I don't know your intentions or your motivations, don't know how long you've left your poor dog outside--if I'm a stranger I can only go by what I witness. Add to that the theft problem. Dogs get stolen from unattended cars so often here it's scary. It's a no-brainer-- *in my opinion*, don't leave your dog unattended in the car whether it's 50 or 100!


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

I think it is wrong, take them home, do your shopping later.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Dallas Gold said:


> Megora, I would have confronted you in the store and I would have told you what I think about leaving your dog in the car. Suffice it to say it would not be pretty. As a stranger, I don't know your intentions or your motivations, don't know how long you've left your poor dog outside--if I'm a stranger I can only go by what I witness. Add to that the theft problem. Dogs get stolen from unattended cars so often here it's scary. It's a no-brainer-- *in my opinion*, don't leave your dog unattended in the car whether it's 50 or 100!


And I would have told you that you were preaching to the choir.  

I never leave my dog in the car if it isn't parked in clear sight from inside the store and I expect to be out again in a minute. 

With that person yacking in the petstore, I did look at her like she was nuts.

*coughs* When people go to the gas station to fill up, do they drive all the way home to avoid leaving their dog in the car? 

What if you are 30 minutes away from home and need to pick up treats for your dog at the class where you are headed. Do you drive all the way home?  

I mean this very lightly and I'm right there with everyone when I see dogs in the car at malls or grocery stores or churches. But if people are popping in and out of a store and obviously are anxious about their animals in the car, that is a very different matter.

^ And I guess I should point out that if you go to dog shows or fun matches, you probably would be flipping your lid to see all the dogs who are kept in the cars while their owners go in to set up crates or do run throughs. Not in hot weather like we are experiencing right now, but definitely even when it's somewhat warm out.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Dallas Gold said:


> It's a no-brainer-- *in my opinion*, don't leave your dog unattended in the car whether it's 50 or 100!


You know, I really have to agree with this...if your dog(s) can't go into whatever establishment you're going to, don't bring them. There are so many things that can go wrong. Not worth it to me at all. If you need to go to the store last minute and you happen to have your dog with you, drive them home and go back alone. I've done that so many times I've lost count. Yes, it's an inconvenience, but one I'll gladly deal with to keep my dogs safe.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Megora said:


> And I would have told you that you were preaching to the choir.
> 
> *I never leave my dog in the car if it isn't parked in clear sight from inside the store and I expect to be out again in a minute. *
> 
> With that person yacking in the petstore, I did look at her like she was nuts.


Again, a stranger won't know your intentions and you can't prevent them from dialing 911 or even breaking your windows out based on what they observe. You might have some 'splaining to to to the police if you do this often enough. I've forced a woman to leave a grocery store or I'd call 911 so when I see a dog in an unattended car either 911 is getting called or I'm breaking out the windows if the dog even looks in distress.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Dallas Gold said:


> Megora, I would have confronted you in the store and I would have told you what I think about leaving your dog in the car. Suffice it to say it would not be pretty. As a stranger, I don't know your intentions or your motivations, don't know how long you've left your poor dog outside--if I'm a stranger I can only go by what I witness. Add to that the theft problem. Dogs get stolen from unattended cars so often here it's scary. It's a no-brainer-- *in my opinion*, don't leave your dog unattended in the car whether it's 50 or 100!


Sorry. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar. If you rant and rave at a complete stranger they are going to ignore you or get defensive regardless of what you say OR if they even AGREE with you! You might get to vent your anger but you are not going to teach them a lesson or get them to comply with you. They will drive off and tell their family about the insane person they met at the store, and not think twice about repeating the behavior. Everyone loses.
If this is a hot button issue with you, why don't you print out some information to hand to these people instead. That way you don't need to be belligerent and you might actually change someone's mind. 
As Megora has said, I have pumped gas, ran into the gas station, etc, with my dogs in the car and I would be shocked to have someone say something to me (much yet yell at me) for the short amount of time I am gone from the car. Of course my dogs are probably lying quietly in their crates so you'd never notice them in the first place.
I completely understand and applaud someone who would save an obviously distressed animal from a hot car, or offer to politely educate someone that doesn't know any better. But yelling and screaming is not going to do either of those things.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

Getting gas ,i can see, but poping into a store, no way.


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## rubysdoghouse (Sep 27, 2010)

Oh Boy have you hit a pet pieve of mine. Let's get this right. Almost all of the states are having an extreame heat wave going on so people have to be smart with their pets. No dog should be left for any amount of time in a uncooled car in this heat and humidity. Yes I know that it takes extra planning to make sure the gas tank is full so you don't have to stop when the dog is with you. It also may mean an extra trip to the store so you can either pick up your dog or drop him off before doing so. They rely on us to protect them and keep them safe at all times. How many times have you ran in the store "for a minute" and end up in line waiting as some one runs to get something else or has trouble with a credit card or check? How many time does someone stop to say hi and you "just stop for a second" to talk. Think of how much you love your dog and the magnatude of the loss that could have been prevented. I also have called the police and will continue to do so any time I think the pet stands a chance of over heating. Brovo to those that care enough to get involved!!!!


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## oakleysmommy (Feb 20, 2011)

Good for you!! My family was just leaving Maine today from their vacation and it was 105 degrees there.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

It is just awfull here, we have mid west weather today, yuck!!!!!!


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

I know how hot my car is when I come back into it from just "running in" to the store for a minute. I would NOT leave my pet for any amount of time in warm weather. The car acts like an oven (even with the windows down)... it doesn't take but a few minutes to heat up to damaging temps.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

K9-Design said:


> Sorry. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar. If you rant and rave at a complete stranger they are going to ignore you or get defensive regardless of what you say OR if they even AGREE with you! You might get to vent your anger but you are not going to teach them a lesson or get them to comply with you. They will drive off and tell their family about the insane person they met at the store, and not think twice about repeating the behavior. Everyone loses.
> If this is a hot button issue with you, why don't you print out some information to hand to these people instead. That way you don't need to be belligerent and you might actually change someone's mind.
> As Megora has said, I have pumped gas, ran into the gas station, etc, with my dogs in the car and I would be shocked to have someone say something to me (much yet yell at me) for the short amount of time I am gone from the car. Of course my dogs are probably lying quietly in their crates so you'd never notice them in the first place.
> I completely understand and applaud someone who would save an obviously distressed animal from a hot car, or offer to politely educate someone that doesn't know any better. But yelling and screaming is not going to do either of those things.


You know I don't really care what they think of me. I just want the situation remedied. I figure the police can educate them just fine or they can think I'm crazy--at least I don't have to witness a dog die in a car because the owner went inside for "just a minute". In the situation I confronted the woman, it was 110 outside, the car windows were up, no engine running, the store was crowded. There was no time to try to reason with her. If it's 110 outside, the inside of the car, in an unshaded parking lot of asphalt, is even higher. How would you like to be sitting in a 125 degree car, wearing a coat, for "just a minute"?


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## vcm5 (Apr 20, 2011)

It is so crazy hot - I can't believe this woman would leave her dog in a car on such a hot day!! I usually bring Riley into the petstore with me, but I never leave him unattended when I go into any other store. Sometimes I'll go to the gas station with him, but all the windows are open and I am standing right next to the car pumping gas, I don't go in the store or anything. But even that I would not do in this extreme heat, only when it is a little cooler!


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

I never leave my boys in the car period. As for getting gas, would you leave your kids in a hot car while you fill up? I can't stand to sit in the car with the windows down in this heat and humidity while my husband fills up, let alone dogs with fur coats!!! A car is like an oven!!!


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Debles said:


> I never leave my boys in the car period. As for getting gas, would you leave your kids in a hot car while you fill up? I can't stand to sit in the car with the windows down in this heat and humidity while my husband fills up, let alone dogs with fur coats!!! A car is like an oven!!!


 
I agree. I make sure to fill up when they are not in the car.. not to mention I don't want them breathing in the fumes.


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## GoldenJoy (Jul 30, 2009)

On the flip side, I have had other dog owners chastise me because I DON'T bring Joy anywhere and leave her in the car! My in-laws used to take their dog everywhere, and yes, he waited patiently in the car and never had a problem. Of course, they left him at home on super hot days. I, however, am just not comfortable leaving Joy in the car any time of year. She goes on an outing - to the park, pond, pet store, etc. - 6 days out of 7. I am just not convinced that she's "missing out" on something because she doesn't get to wait for me in the lot at Walgreen's...


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Dallas Gold said:


> You know I don't really care what they think of me. I just want the situation remedied. I figure the police can educate them just fine or they can think I'm crazy--at least I don't have to witness a dog die in a car because the owner went inside for "just a minute". In the situation I confronted the woman, *it was 110 outside, the car windows were up, no engine running*, the store was crowded. There was no time to try to reason with her. *If it's 110 outside, the inside of the car, in an unshaded parking lot of asphalt,* is even higher. How would you like to be sitting in a 125 degree car, wearing a coat, for "just a minute"?


Each case is different, I agree that was definitely a situation that needed to be addressed. Hopefully anyone with the guts to call someone out, also has the sense to know if the animal is in real danger or not.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

I'm with Megora on this one. When I was living in Louisiana, I took Flora everywhere with me. She was crestfallen when I didn't take her. However, during the summer, the ONLY time I took her in the car with me and left her in the car was when I made quick stops at the open air/outdoor fruit stand. I would roll down all the windows all the way and I could see her from where I was. She was in there a maximum of 3, 4 minutes, and when I would come back to the car it was still plenty cool from my AC.

That said... that was the absolute only time I did that. I would never leave her in my car and go inside a building where I could not see her. That would be too much of a risk for me! And in THIS heat... no way, she would be staying at home. *I *don't even like getting in the car these days!

Kudos to the OP.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Just as an aside ( and a shocker ), the weatherman here yesterday was taking temps outside around a day camp. The GRASS in the field registered 155 degrees!!!!! So even with the air temp at 101, the temp elsewhere can be tremendouly higher. Think if the grass is 155 what the sidewalks are... you can literally fry an egg.


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## vcm5 (Apr 20, 2011)

Debles said:


> I never leave my boys in the car period. As for getting gas, would you leave your kids in a hot car while you fill up? I can't stand to sit in the car with the windows down in this heat and humidity while my husband fills up, let alone dogs with fur coats!!! A car is like an oven!!!


I agree completely! I meant that I never do this when its hot - never during the summer, only in the other seasons when it is less than 70 degrees.


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## Bob Dylan (Mar 31, 2009)

Way to go, I applaud you for taking action.
My car is always in the garage and is still hot inside it with temps
in the 100 degree range.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> Just as an aside ( and a shocker ), the weatherman here yesterday was taking temps outside around a day camp. The GRASS in the field registered 155 degrees!!!!! So even with the air temp at 101, the temp elsewhere can be tremendouly higher. Think if the grass is 155 what the sidewalks are... you can literally fry an egg.


I'm not sure if it was the ABC national news or our local affiliate but they baked a T-bone in a car dash this week. Just imagine what those types of temperatures do to a poor dog's brain.  It's inhumane.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Okay, I'll fess up. I left Daisy in the car twice today. Once after the a/c had been running for awhile and I slipped into a convenience store, was back out in 1 minute, no line. If there had been a line I would have asked someone if I could cut in front of them and would have explained I had a dog in my car.

Second time I stopped by an auto place to pick up a torque screwdriver. She was soaking wet at that point. I went in and asked how quickly can you sell me a torque screwdriver, I have a dog in my car. In and out in a minute and a half, maybe. If it would have been any longer than that, I would have given the clerk my debit card and asked them to take care of it and bring me my card and my receipt back to me as I waited in my car with the a/c running for Daisy.

I live in a small rural town, I don't worry about theft at all. No one has ever confronted me when I do this because if they're watching me, they can clearly see I'm rushing and I'm quick. Anything longer than 2 minutes, wet or dry, forget it. If I can't see her from where I am inside, forget that also.

As for filling up, a lot of times I do have Daisy with me. Then too, the a/c has been running for awhile and I can roll the windows all the way down because I'm right there. The attendent almost always comes over and gives her a dog biscuit, she likes that. 

I'm of the position there's a *tiny* bit of wiggle room with this issue, a very tiny bit. I've taken advantage of that but I have never abused it. I would never in a million years let anything bad happen to Daisy. I am never cavalier about her wellbeing in this kind of heat.


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## BajaOklahoma (Sep 27, 2009)

Last summer, there was a story about our city policemen will give out tickets for leaving pets in the car. i am thrilled.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Jo Ellen said:


> Okay, I'll fess up. I left Daisy in the car twice today. Once after the a/c had been running for awhile and I slipped into a convenience store, was back out in 1 minute, no line. If there had been a line I would have asked someone if I could cut in front of them and would have explained I had a dog in my car.
> 
> Second time I stopped by an auto place to pick up a torque screwdriver. She was soaking wet at that point. I went in and asked how quickly can you sell me a torque screwdriver, I have a dog in my car. In and out in a minute and a half, maybe. If it would have been any longer than that, I would have given the clerk my debit card and asked them to take care of it and bring me my card and my receipt back to me as I waited in my car with the a/c running for Daisy.
> 
> ...


The HUGE difference between you and someone like the one she called the police on is that you are fully aware of the danger and would never leave her more than a minute in the car. 

Idiots that leave the dog and go shopping, or have their hair done, or eat a meal are too stupid to realize the danger, or don't care about the dog.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

I'm sure they do here also, and I'm glad they do. For the most part, the policemen know me around here (very small town, police station is at the end of my block). I'm sure they know me well enough by now to know I'm responsible, and I assure everyone, I have _never_ given anyone a fright on this issue. If I thought for a second that she wouldn't be okay, I wouldn't do it.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

mylissyk said:


> Idiots that leave the dog and go shopping, or have their hair done, or eat a meal are too stupid to realize the danger, or don't care about the dog.


Agreed. And I wouldn't think twice about calling 911 if I saw what I believed to be a dangerous situation.


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## Looni2ns (Mar 26, 2010)

The way things are right now, the only way I leave the girls in my car is with the AC running full blast, and parked in the shade. And, that includes at the gas station, or at the park. I've been traveling before, and had to leave the girls in the car while pumping gas, or running to the potty. The engine is running, and the AC is on. If someone wants my car, I dare them to try and get in it w/three large dogs barking their heads off in warning. Don't think they'll get far.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

I used to have a car that I could keep running and lock the doors, so sometimes I would run into the grocery store on my way home or on the way to the lake. It doesn't happen anymore because I can't lock the doors while the car is running on my current (or past two) car. If I have them with me and I need something at the store, I take them home and head back out. It's not worth the risk of getting caught in a line on what I might expect to be a quick run into a store. It just takes a bit of planning ahead of time or a bit more time to drop them off and head back out.


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

I want to bring up one very important point here:

Please be very careful who you "call out". Too many people get violent these days and I'd hate to lose a GRF friend to "road rage". When in doubt, please just call the police if possible and don't confront the offender.


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## vcm5 (Apr 20, 2011)

coppers-mom said:


> I want to bring up one very important point here:
> 
> Please be very careful who you "call out". Too many people get violent these days and I'd hate to lose a GRF friend to "road rage". When in doubt, please just call the police if possible and don't confront the offender.


Good point!! You want to keep the dogs safe - but also keep yourself safe!!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> Just as an aside ( and a shocker ), the weatherman here yesterday was taking temps outside around a day camp. The GRASS in the field registered 155 degrees!!!!! So even with the air temp at 101, the temp elsewhere can be tremendouly higher. Think if the grass is 155 what the sidewalks are... you can literally fry an egg.


Again I'm all in agreement with people when you are talking about temperatures like that. Sit in your car for 10 minutes, and if you can't stand to do that in the heat you shouldn't leave a dog in the car for even 5 minutes. 

The way it felt on my lunchbreak yesterday - I would not have left my dog outside, much less in the car for 30 seconds even. 

Today I ate my lunch in my car with the windows open. It's warm (right now I think it's upper 70's right now after the rain, at lunch it was lower 80's), but not that bad. That was sitting in the car for 40 minutes, not 2 minutes.


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## cory (Aug 23, 2010)

I go with the thinking of "would I leave my kids in the car?" ...If the answer is no, then I wouldn't leave my dogs in the car either. That is just how I handle it. I don't leave my kids in the car to run into the store so I don't leave the dogs when I run into the store. I leave the kids while I pump gas but I also open the door in this heat so I do the same thing with the dogs (but they are behind a barrier so they can't get out). That is just how I handle it.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

coppers-mom said:


> I want to bring up one very important point here:
> 
> Please be very careful who you "call out". Too many people get violent these days and I'd hate to lose a GRF friend to "road rage". When in doubt, please just call the police if possible and don't confront the offender.


In my case there were a dozen witnesses and it was done within yards of store security. I felt perfectly safe. If it had been a big hunking man I would have just called 911 or gotten store security without making the guy aware. 

I'm reading here that most of us here in the south, with a few exceptions, who deal with heat and hot cars most of the year, have common sense, understand the risks and don't have as much tolerance for the "just a minute" errand excuses as those of you in milder climates who don't deal with this as often. Please be careful with your dogs in this heat. You may not realize just how dangerous it is for our pets with soaring temperatures. What I never want to read here is a thread where your dog was stolen or you lost your dog to heat stroke because you were in the store just a minute and didn't realize the risks.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

cory said:


> I go with the thinking of "would I leave my kids in the car?" ...If the answer is no, then I wouldn't leave my dogs in the car either. That is just how I handle it. I don't leave my kids in the car to run into the store so I don't leave the dogs when I run into the store. I leave the kids while I pump gas but I also open the door in this heat so I do the same thing with the dogs (but they are behind a barrier so they can't get out). That is just how I handle it.


That reminds me....I got a grocery store manager involved with a locked car, small children, rolled up windows on a hot summer day. I went in the store, was out 10 minutes later and they were still there. I got the store manager, he was on his phone dialing 911 as he came out to investigate. I left because the situation was in control and hopefully he could entice them to unlock the doors and step out until police arrived. There are a lot of really stupid people in this world.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> as those of you in milder climates who don't deal with this as often.


Actually, Michigan gets plenty hot in July/August. We are making such a huge deal about the heat because the last few years have been cool and wet. We complain when it's too hot in summer and we complain when it's too cold in winter and when it's too wet in spring and fall.  And of course, if we have nothing to complain about as far as our weather, then we are complaining about nobody noticing and appreciating everything about us and our state. 

Back to the generalizing here -

I know people take their dogs for walks in this hot weather, even when it's 80+ early in the morning when they walk. And I know other people take their dogs jogging in the same weather. <- I would never say that those two types of owners are equally bad to their dogs. Even if I personally would not take my dog out walking in temps over 85 degrees. What I personally choose not to do to myself or my dog doesn't mean I think other people are abusive or neglectful of their dogs, particularly if the dogs show no signs of stress.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

If only dogs left unattended in hot cars could what the dog in the following story did, which brings up another point--forgetting your dog is in the car. It happened recently to a police dog in Greenville TX, and if it can happen to a police officer, it can happen to anyone. This dog is a very fortunate dog. An hour in 90 degree heat--it's a miracle the lab survived.

Pa. dog trapped in hot car honks to alert owner | wfaa.com Dallas - Fort Worth

* Pa. dog trapped in hot car honks to alert owner *
Associated Press
Posted on July 13, 2010 at 8:03 PM





_MACUNGIE, Pa. (AP) — A veterinarian says a dog trapped in a car on a 90-degree day in eastern Pennsylvania honked the horn until he was rescued.
Nancy Soares says the chocolate Labrador was brought to her Macungie (muh-KUHN'-gee) Animal Hospital last month after he had been in the car for about an hour.
She says Max's owner had gone shopping and was unloading packages when she returned but forgot that Max was still in the car. She later heard the horn honking and looked outside several times but saw nothing amiss. Finally, she went outside and saw Max sitting in the driver's seat, honking the horn.
Soares says the owner immediately gave Max cold water to drink and wet him down with towels before rushing him to the clinic.
Soares says Max was very warm and panting heavily but had suffered no serious injuries, only heat exhaustion._


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

goldensrbest said:


> I would never, leave a dog in a car, at 80, let alone 100, shade or not, just dumb.


 
We frequently stop at the store on the way home from the barn. It's convenient, fuel and time efficient. I wait in the car with Penny with the windows rolled down, engine, a/c off. By this standard, would you say it's wrong that Penny is in the car with me?


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

I certainly do curtail taking Daisy along during summer months. In the winter and at night when it's cool enough, I have no problem letting her stay in the car while I go shopping. I crack the windows and lock the doors. In the warmer months, I would never leave her in the car with just the windows cracked so I have to be very quick whatever I am doing since the windows are down further so locking the car wouldn't make sense. In those cases, I worry about the heat AND her being stolen -- if I can't be very quick, I make a separate trip.

Daisy is always safe with me, my minute rule in the summer heat is exactly that -- 1 minute when she's dry after the a/c has been running for awhile; 2 minutes *max* when she's wet, and again after the a/c has been running.

She's almost 11 years old now. I've been worried if age can make a dog more susceptible to heat. Does anyone know? I'm keeping a very close eye on her, especially with the heat we're having now, even when she's at the lake. Sometimes she wants to go sit outside in the sun, and just sit there, but I don't let her. Honestly, I'd rather she wait in an air conditioned car one minute than sit out in the full sun when it's this ridiculous hot.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Penny's Mom said:


> We frequently stop at the store on the way home from the barn. It's convenient, fuel and time efficient. I wait in the car with Penny with the windows rolled down, engine, a/c off. By this standard, would you say it's wrong that Penny is in the car with me?


Leaving a dog implies that the dog is alone without a human in the car. Though I have no idea why you would sit there in very hot weather with the AC off, if you are in the car with her an not uncomfortable, then it's probably okay. Of course, you aren't wearing a fur coat while you are sitting there, either.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

> *She's almost 11 years old now. I've been worried if age can make a dog more susceptible to heat. Does anyone know? I'm keeping a very close eye on her, especially with the heat we're having now, even when she's at the lake. Sometimes she wants to go sit outside in the sun, and just sit there, but I don't let her. Honestly, I'd rather she wait in an air conditioned car one minute than sit out in the full sun when it's this ridiculous hot.*


Not sure why your quote bolded. Yes, seniors and young ones are more susceptible to the heat, both in humans and animals.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Dallas Gold said:


> if it can happen to a police officer, it can happen to anyone_._


I'm sorry, but that could never, ever, not in a million years, happen to me. I never forget about her, period, much less when we're out and about together. I am always VERY cognizant of leaving her, whether it's because I have to go on a business trip, leave her home for a few hours to go shopping or to an event, or when she's in my car when I run into the store. I am never okay without her, I am probably neurotic.

I struggle with these stories about police officers. The only conclusion I can come to is that they are not as bonded to their dog as I am to Daisy.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Jo Ellen said:


> I certainly do curtail taking Daisy along during summer months. In the winter and at night when it's cool enough, I have no problem letting her stay in the car while I go shopping. I crack the windows and lock the doors. In the warmer months, I would never leave her in the car with just the windows cracked so I have to be very quick whatever I am doing since the windows are down further so locking the car wouldn't make sense. In those cases, I worry about the heat AND her being stolen -- if I can't be very quick, I make a separate trip.
> 
> Daisy is always safe with me, my minute rule in the summer heat is exactly that -- 1 minute when she's dry after the a/c has been running for awhile; 2 minutes *max* when she's wet, and again after the a/c has been running.
> 
> She's almost 11 years old now. I've been worried if age can make a dog more susceptible to heat. Does anyone know? I'm keeping a very close eye on her, especially with the heat we're having now, even when she's at the lake. Sometimes she wants to go sit outside in the sun, and just sit there, but I don't let her. Honestly, I'd rather she wait in an air conditioned car one minute than sit out in the full sun when it's this ridiculous hot.


I think it's pretty safe to assume geriatric dogs are more susceptible since geriatric people are definitely at higher risk. Their immune systems may not be as strong as a healthy adult, they have more physical ailments and cannot deal with heat or cold as easily. Whenever we have heat advisories, it always advises elderly and young to stay inside in climate controlled temperatures.


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

fostermom said:


> Leaving a dog implies that the dog is alone without a human in the car. Though I have no idea why you would sit there in very hot weather with the AC off, if you are in the car with her an not uncomfortable, then it's probably okay. Of course, you aren't wearing a fur coat while you are sitting there, either.


You're absolutely right. I'll stop doing that.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Jo Ellen said:


> I'm sorry, but that could never, ever, not in a million years, happen to me. I never forget about her, period, much less when we're out and about together. I am always VERY cognizant of leaving her, whether it's because I have to go on a business trip, leave her home for a few hours to go shopping or to an event, or when she's in my car when I run into the store. I am never okay without her, I am probably neurotic.
> 
> I struggle with these stories about police officers. The only conclusion I can come to is that they are not as bonded to their dog as I am to Daisy.


It is sickening how many adult parents forget and leave their children in the car and the child dies. They all claim, when interviewed, crying in grief, that they would never do it, yet it happens. These parents lose a precious child, knowing it was their fault, grieve the loss and also get criminally prosecuted under our state law. Their lives are ruined. You just never know--it could happen when you have a bad day and are distracted. We're human and sometimes our brains do exactly what we think will not happen.


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

I've heard that parents should put their purse or brief case in the back seat with the child. When they go to get the stuff out, they'll see the child. Sounds good until I wondered why they would remember the purse, etc. but not the child.

Penny doesn't let us forget: she attacks the windows snarling and barking @ the thought of being left behind!


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

I'm editing this, I don't know why. I know the stories. But I also know me and Daisy and I know that would never happen. Maybe because I am totally neurotic when it comes to her. Accidents happen, yes. Forgetting Daisy, not possible for me.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Jo Ellen said:


> That will never happen with me. It's not possible _for me_.


I hope for your sake that is true.


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

Jo Ellen said:


> That will never happen with me. It's not possible _for me_.


 
I know what you mean. I would never get so scattered that I could loose my mind to forget a child or pet. Just can't happen!


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

I live in Southern Maine and in my backyard in the sun today, it was 107!!!


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## ShipIt (Jun 6, 2011)

Good job! I'm glad you called the police!
I don't understand why people even bring their dogs with them if it's just a short trip.

My parents, however, are guilty of leaving dogs in the car. However; it only happens when we're going on a road trip and we have to stop to pick something up before we reach our destination. Even then there is always somebody in the car with them. We always try to avoid it though. But it's hard since any shopping trip is at least a 2 hour drive away. :/ We live in the middle of nowhere.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Jo Ellen said:


> I'm editing this, I don't know why. I know the stories. But I also know me and Daisy and I know that would never happen. Maybe because I am totally neurotic when it comes to her. Accidents happen, yes. Forgetting Daisy, not possible for me.


I'm the same way. I think there is something mentally wrong with people who forget their kids or dogs are in the car. If they are that inept, they should not have any children or animals at all.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Jo Ellen said:


> In the winter and at night when it's cool enough, I have no problem letting her stay in the car while I go shopping. I crack the windows and lock the doors.


And what if someone decides to take her because she's pretty or to wait for a reward to be posted for her return? I don't even leave my dogs in my _very_ secure and private backyard unless I'm home. No way would I leave them in the car alone for any Tom, Dick or Harry to take a shot, (figure of speech) at them. Totally not worth it.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Dallas Gold said:


> I hope for your sake that is true.


Now you have me thinking about this. I'm sure this is true because of how much I need her and how much I need to not be responsible for something bad happening to her. I never left my son in the car and forgot about him either. 

I don't know how to understand these stories that happen to good people, and police officers. It's all so unthinkable to me because I'm just not capable of that, in any circumstance. Now you could argue that those people are normal and I'm not. That's entirely possible


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Jo Ellen said:


> . Now you could argue that those people are normal and I'm not. That's entirely possible


uh, not going there!


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

kwhit said:


> And what if someone decides to take her because she's pretty or to wait for a reward to be posted for her return? I don't even leave my dogs in my _very_ secure and private backyard unless I'm home. No way would I leave them in the car alone for any Tom, Dick or Harry to take a shot, (figure of speech) at them. Totally not worth it.


I lock the car and I don't leave the windows down far enough for anyone to reach in. I suppose it's possible but remember, I live in a very small town. I've lived here for 9 years now and nothing, literally nothing, has happened. I leave my car unlocked at night in my driveway, if it's just me and I'm at the store, I don't lock my car then either. I'm comfortable leaving her in a locked car for a few minutes. I would never leave her unattended in a backyard for any length of time no matter how secure it was. But, I live in a very old house, I always worry when I'm out that there's going to be a fire and she won't be able to get out. THAT worries me a good deal more than her being stolen from my car.


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## vcm5 (Apr 20, 2011)

Megora said:


> I'm the same way. I think there is something mentally wrong with people who forget their kids or dogs are in the car. If they are that inept, they should not have any children or animals at all.


I think that this is a little harsh. I have never forgotten my dog or any child, and I agree that it is irresponsible and terrible. But "mentally wrong" is a little harsh. I know a friend whose family was in a car crash and she rushed to the hospital and when she got there jumped out of the car, forgetting her sleeping child and the valet parking guy had to run after her a few minutes later. She wasn't mentally ill or "inept," she was just very distressed and I know she feels terrible about it to this day. Its easy to say what you will do before the fact, but sometimes the world just gets the best of you.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

About 23 years ago, one of my clients stupidly parked her car in Portland, Maine with her dog in the car to go to a rock concert. Someone broke into the car to steal the radio and the dog got out. Multple pelvic fractures later and surgery at Tufts, she never walked on her hindlegs again. It made me scared to leave the dogs in the car. However, sometimes in Winter, they all pile in for a ride to go to LLBean. I have some serious woofers, so I feel that is a deterrent....


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## vcm5 (Apr 20, 2011)

Sally's Mom said:


> About 23 years ago, one of my clients stupidly parked her car in Portland, Maine with her dog in the car to go to a rock concert. Someone broke into the car to steal the radio and the dog got out. Multple pelvic fractures later and surgery at Tufts, she never walked on her hindlegs again. It made me scared to leave the dogs in the car. However, sometimes in Winter, they all pile in for a ride to go to LLBean. I have some serious woofers, so I feel that is a deterrent....


She left her dog in the car to go to a concert??!!! I have never heard of anything like that! Concerts are so long!!


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

I wouldn't leave Daisy alone in the car, locked or unlocked, if I was attending a social event with a lot of people.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

vcm5 said:


> I think that this is a little harsh. I have never forgotten my dog or any child, and I agree that it is irresponsible and terrible. But "mentally wrong" is a little harsh. I know a friend whose family was in a car crash and she rushed to the hospital and when she got there jumped out of the car, forgetting her sleeping child and the valet parking guy had to run after her a few minutes later. She wasn't mentally ill or "inept," she was just very distressed and I know she feels terrible about it to this day. Its easy to say what you will do before the fact, but sometimes the world just gets the best of you.


It's harsh, but I just don't understand how you could forget somebody that should be more important to you than anything else. 

The story I was thinking about was the one that was in the news last year or the year before that. That would be those people who drove home with the baby and went inside, forgetting to bring the baby in. I can't comprehend anyone being that oblivious to what should be the first thing they think about 24/7. 

I don't have human kids, but my dog fills that spot in my life. I might be driving with him in the car and I am aware of where he is at all times. My mirror is aimed so I can see what he's doing in the backseat. And so forth.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Oprah had a mother on her show who was a school principal. Her husband usually took the baby to daycare. They switched as he had a dental appointment. She stopped and got donuts for a coffee at work and forgot to drop the baby at daycare. The baby was in the car all day in the heat till she went out to her car to go home. The daycare didn't even call her to see where the baby was(I don't think). The baby was dead of course by then.
I can see in this hectic society how a mom or dad who are so busy could forget in a situation like this. I worry about my daughter because their life is so busy and stressful. I pray for those poor parents.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Efforts aim to reduce deaths from kids left in hot cars | The Post and Courier, Charleston SC - News, Sports, Entertainment

Good parents don't think it can happen to them. It can, experts and statistics say, and new recommendations on rear-facing car seats could make the problem even worse. 
*The parents of more than half of almost 500 children who died from being left in hot cars from 1998 to 2010 simply forgot their kids were in the vehicles, experts report. *
At least five children have died so far this year, including three in May in Southern states. 

anette Fennell of Leawood, Kan., compiled the numbers for Kids and Cars, her home-based nonprofit, which has become a national leader in child car safety. "They think of the people this happened to as monsters, and they don't put in place the safeguards you should," she said. "If you have the ability to forget your cell phone, you can forget your child."
Kids and Cars will soon print "Look Before You Lock" warning tags that will go into take-home kits that hospitals give new mothers. 
Safe Kids USA recently launched a "Never Leave Your Child Alone in a Car" campaign. 
A recommendation that the American Academy of Pediatrics issued in March might keep kids safer in crashes but make it more likely that they'll be forgotten in a car. 
The academy now wants parents to put children in rear-facing car seats in the backseat until they're 2 years old or 30 pounds, an increase of one year or 10 pounds. 
The last time experts pushed a new campaign to put more children in rear-facing seats -- in the 1990s, to cut the chances of being killed by air bags -- the number of children who died in hot cars spiked. 
In fact, more kids died from being left in hot cars than had died from air bags, Kids and Cars reports. 
David Diamond, a psychology professor at the University of South Florida, shares the worry that extending the time children sit in rear-facing seats will mean that more of them will die of heatstroke when their parents forget they are there. 
Almost 90 percent of children who died of heatstroke in cars from 1998 through 2009 were 3 years old or younger, Kids and Cars reports, and about three-quarters were 2 and younger. 
In a multitasking world, Diamond said, parents' enemy can be the human brain's tendency to focus on what it is doing at the moment. 
He likens it to putting a cup of coffee on your car roof while you pull out the keys and get in. 
It is easy to forget the coffee until it spills down the windshield when you drive away. 
Stress, lack of sleep and changes of routine add to that tendency, he said. 
A parent might pay so much attention to the stress or what lies ahead at work that he drives right by the day-care center almost in autopilot mode, Diamond said. 
*Damaged parent*
*Mary Parks, whose 23-month-old son, Juan, died in her car in 2007, never 
thought then that she could do such a thing. *
The accountant from Blacksburg, Va., tells people her story in memory of her son:
Juan and his 4-year-old brother, Byron, had been sick for weeks, so she had been losing sleep. She was usually the one who stayed home with a sick child. 
But this time, she left Byron home with her husband and took Juan to day care, or so she thought. 
"It's not really that you forget," she said. "I call it misremembering."
Somehow she drove straight to work but was sure she had dropped Juan off at the nearby day care. Usually Byron, who was talkative in the car, was also with her, but Juan just quietly went to sleep in the car seat behind her. 
At the parking lot at work, she grabbed her purse from the front seat, went in and had a normal day. She even told others she might have to take off early to pick up Juan at day care because he was still somewhat sick. 
When she got there, the staff told her that Juan had never arrived. 
"I took off running to the car," Parks said. She found Juan limp and pale. On a September day with temperatures in the 80s, she knew it was too late. 
She went into shock and could not think or function normally for weeks, she said. Prosecutors later charged her with manslaughter and felony child abuse, she said, and two years passed after Juan's death before they dismissed all charges. 
Parks found Kids and Cars and met other parents who had lost children the same way. 
She sometimes talks to groups, trying to explain the dangers in memory of her son and to prevent other child deaths. 
Many people think she is a monster, Parks said. Some say they understand it could happen to anyone. She said few take a middle position.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Jo Ellen said:


> I lock the car and I don't leave the windows down far enough for anyone to reach in.


They'll get in if they want to...no need for reaching in the car. I'm sorry but I wasn't aware that you lived in the only town in this country that's crime-free. I really hope that you're right and that nothing will ever happen, but I'll never understand the reasoning behind taking such a risk with a dog that you obviously treasure with all your heart.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

A old kenny rogers song, i think it goes, if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything, i beleive in speaking up, doing what is right, even if you make someone mad, that dog should not been left in that car, period!!


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Megora said:


> My mirror is aimed so I can see what he's doing in the backseat. And so forth.


Me too  I have to remind myself to put it right sometimes because I'm not supposed to be driving like that. I feel kinda guilty that I'm paying more attention to Daisy in the back seat than I am to the cars behind me.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Debles said:


> Oprah had a mother on her show who was a school principal. Her husband usually took the baby to daycare. They switched as he had a dental appointment. She stopped and got donuts for a coffee at work and forgot to drop the baby at daycare. The baby was in the car all day in the heat till she went out to her car to go home. The daycare didn't even call her to see where the baby was(I don't think). The baby was dead of course by then.
> .


Yep. That was another story I heard about. Again, I do not understand how people could be this inept or unaware. I mean when you drove around with your kid, weren't you aware of her? Looking in the rear view mirror at her and thinking about her with every bump in the road you rolled over? That woman was not a mother if she was so busy with her own little life that she was paying zero attention to her child. That's disgusting.

@the purse - I'm pretty sure I said this before, but my purse stays in my car all the time. Because I forget to grab it when I leave in the morning. And one time I left it at my work. I've never forgotten my boy child ever. I have forgotten my purse. One thing is an object stuffed with junk. The other is the little boy I truly love.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

I've advised both our dils to put their purses in the back seat with the babies. As utterly exhausted as young parents ( esp Moms) can get, it is not out of the realm that even very responsible people could be guilty of forgetting.... esp if their routine is changed. It's heartbreaking and tragic and something some very loving parents have to live with for a lifetime. I so pray that car makers or child seat manufacturers will come up with an alarm if there is still weight in that car seat when the car is turned off and the doors opened and shut.

I saw that Oprah show Deb, and it was heartbreaking to watch. Several children have already been lost in TX this year.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

kwhit said:


> They'll get in if they want to...no need for reaching in the car. I'm sorry but I wasn't aware that you lived in the only town in this country that's crime-free. I really hope that you're right and that nothing will ever happen, but I'll never understand the reasoning behind taking such a risk with a dog that you obviously treasure with all your heart.


There's really absolutely no need to get testy with me. I'm very comfortable where I live, I love not being afraid. I can't say that I have ever lived anywhere before where I feel as safe as I feel now. And I live alone ... that's really saying something. 

There's nothing in my car that anybody would want. Not even a half-way decent stereo. If it's just a car someone wants, I'm sure they would choose a better one than mine. And I do have a panic alarm, not because I'm worried about anyone stealing my car but because it came with my remote starter. 

It's okay you don't understand. I'm comfortable and Daisy is fine. Thank you. I might feel differently if I lived in a big city, or even in a city at all. I'm glad I don't.


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## cory (Aug 23, 2010)

As a mother of two children that are less then a year apart, I was often very sleep deprived and often going on autopilot. I love them with all that I am and would die for them without thinking twice. I would like to say that I would never forget them but I can't. Thank God that I haven't but I can see how sleep deprived parents can do it. As a dog owner I can see how it would be even easier to do it with my dogs then my children but as a parent and a dog owner it is my responsibility to keep them safe.


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## lgnutah (Feb 26, 2007)

Penny's Mom said:


> We frequently stop at the store on the way home from the barn. It's convenient, fuel and time efficient. I wait in the car with Penny with the windows rolled down, engine, a/c off. By this standard, would you say it's wrong that Penny is in the car with me?


Thank you. 
Come on people. When I read posts by people who say that it is not OK to take your dog outside for a walk (not a jog, not locked in a hot car) if the temperature is over 85 degrees, I am struck by the absurdity of this. What about people who live in a climate where it is above 85 nearly year round. Should they never take their dogs on a walk, ever?
The earth is hot some times of the year. Dogs and people are capable of handling temperatures outside of the 68-72 degree "climate controlled" temperature range.
We need to differentiate between a closed car, with windows closed, in high heat with a living creature inside.......and seasonal variations which healthy people and dogs are capable of tolerating.


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## lgnutah (Feb 26, 2007)

kwhit said:


> They'll get in if they want to...no need for reaching in the car. I'm sorry but I wasn't aware that you lived in the only town in this country that's crime-free. I really hope that you're right and that nothing will ever happen, but I'll never understand the reasoning behind taking such a risk with a dog that you obviously treasure with all your heart.


There are risks involved in driving a car, crossing the street, using a knife to cut my sandwich in half. One must weigh risks and make intelligent decisions. I refuse to live my life ruled by fear.


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## Mirinde (Jun 8, 2011)

This is coming from someone who lives in Washington and is therefore not used to heat over about 95 degrees no matter what time of year it is but... 

Isn't this just a matter of common sense? If the circumstances are right, it is acceptable to leave your dog in the car. If the circumstances are wrong, it isn't. If you park in the shade, ideally where you can see your dog, and you've been driving around with the A/C blasting and you know for a fact that your errand is going to be so fast that the car will have barely had time to warm up...I don't see why it's an issue to leave your dog in the car? For all the people claiming they don't want their car to get broken into and their dog stolen...on the flip side, do you never leave your house without dog? Your house could just as easily be broken into as well while you're gone. Bad things happen. Every situation with something/someone you love should be approached with a risk-analysis mindset, but if those risks come out as minimal, you should be okay. 

Obviously there are far more circumstances where it's wrong to leave your dog in the car than there are right circumstances, but I certainly wouldn't say it's never okay to leave your dog in the car.


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## Phillyfisher (Jan 9, 2008)

Tucker is never left in the car alone. If we need to go somewhere where he cannot go in, I usually stay back with him in the car. Most times I open the back hatch and sit with him and hang out. If it gets too hot even that way, we go looking for something cooler. Usually, we meet a couple of new friends while we hang out in the back of the car. Actually I look forward to when we have to do this. Much rather hang with him than shop!


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

There is a difference, in leaving a dog at home, than in a car, on a hot day, shade,or no shade.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

I thought we were talking about leaving a dog alone in a car with the windows up or partially up or even down on a hot day. I don't know where it suddenly became about sitting in the car with them or leaving them in the car on a cool day. 

I have three dogs and I have traveled quite often with them. If I have to stop at a rest stop and it's a cool day, I crack the windows and go in to use the restroom. I have three big dogs, two of whom will bark like crazy if someone approaches the car. I don't think anyone is going to try to break the window to get into my car and steal my dogs. If they did, I have a feeling they would have bite marks from Jasmine.

I used to never leave them unattended, even locked in. But it was because I knew they would eat the interior in the time it took me to get back out. 

But I don't and would never leave them in the car when the temperature is over 70 or so degrees, depending on the humidity.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

This, thread gone from my first post, talking of a very hot day, dog in car, to leaving kids in the car to if it's okay to get gas, with dog, or kids in car, wow.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

I urge everyone to read this article, esp the chart on how long it takes a car to heat up to 100 at varying outdoor temps. Hyperthermia in dogs: a hot car can kill in minutes - National animal advocacy | Examiner.com


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Mirinde said:


> For all the people claiming they don't want their car to get broken into and their dog stolen...on the flip side, do you never leave your house without dog? Your house could just as easily be broken into as well while you're gone. Bad things happen. Every situation with something/someone you love should be approached with a risk-analysis mindset, but if those risks come out as minimal, you should be okay.
> 
> Obviously there are far more circumstances where it's wrong to leave your dog in the car than there are right circumstances, but I certainly wouldn't say it's never okay to leave your dog in the car.


You know we were discussing this at work today and people started questioning the safety of leaving your dog in s sealed house with the A/C running - how quickly would the house become an oven if the A/C broke? And then we heard that over 1,000 customers in our state lost power with the temp around 103 (heat index higher). I pray all the dogs & cats are okay in these areas if they were inside sealed houses when the A/C went out.

Edit to add: 5100 customers without power in Hartford too..


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Fostermom, I believe the topic of leaving dogs in cars unattended came up fairly early in this thread ...



Dallas Gold said:


> Megora, I would have confronted you in the store and I would have told you what I think about leaving your dog in the car. Suffice it to say it would not be pretty. As a stranger, I don't know your intentions or your motivations, don't know how long you've left your poor dog outside--if I'm a stranger I can only go by what I witness. Add to that the theft problem. Dogs get stolen from unattended cars so often here it's scary. It's a no-brainer-- *in my opinion*, don't leave your dog unattended in the car whether it's 50 or 100!


Threads morph, one idea leads to another. It's just the nature of people talking. 


I have to say I have not heard a single report of a dog being stolen from a car where I live. If I did, I'm sure I would be more on alert, and likely have the same opinion as Dallas Gold. I'm so happy I'm not a city girl anymore, I can't imagine going back.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Jo Ellen said:


> There's really absolutely no need to get testy with me. I'm very comfortable where I live, I love not being afraid.


I feel very strongly about this because my friend _had her dog stolen_ and she had often said what you said in the above quote. She moved to a really small town for her kids and was there 4 years before it happened. Same thing...doors left open, she knew everyone, and felt very safe, etc. I knew this dog before she moved and I loved her like she was my own. I, too, left previous dogs, (not Chance or Lucy), in the car while I ran errands...not anymore. It can happen anywhere, any place, any time. And it only takes seconds. 

No broken glass, no evidence of a break in, just her dog's collar left on the seat. She never saw her again. So from then on I have been an advocate of never leaving dogs in cars alone, no matter the time of year. That's why I was being "testy".


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

I'm so sorry for your friend. Yes, bad things can ( and do ) happen anywhere.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Thank you, Kwhit. That's a terrible story, I'm sorry that happened.


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

Megora said:


> I'm the same way. I think there is something mentally wrong with people who forget their kids or dogs are in the car. If they are that inept, they should not have any children or animals at all.



Let me just say that maybe I am inept... but I can totally see myself doing this... I could totally see me bringing my dog to daycare and if they fell asleep and I was on auto pilot I could totally see myself forgetting them... I have a million things going on all the time and if it were not my regular routine. 

I can't tell you how many times I missed the exit the first week I was taking one of the pups to daycare .... 

so far in just this thread ... I have watched other posters call people dumb.... inept.... and an assortment of other words.... 

I am glad that some of you are all so perfect.... at least I am aware of my own distractability and can make accommodations for myself so accidents don't happen...as opposed to the "this could never happen to me" 

In my state a couple years ago two VETS accidentally left their dogs in their car in the parking lot of their office... they parked in the lot went in to open the door... got called into an emergency and that was it... they lost their dogs... I bet they never thought it could happen to them either 

as for me... I have left the dogs in the car... there are times when we are headed to a show or event that we do have to stop... often I am alone... and will have to stop for gas... or to use a bathroom or whatever... and the dogs do get left in the car... 

I drove to Thunder Bay Ontario by myself to a show... sorry folks but I did have to stop... it was a 30 hour drive from my home in NH .... and they don't allow dogs in ladies rooms. 

Lets see the other day I was in town (a half hour from my house) we had gone to the vet and I had run out of dog food (I know how horrible that I should run out of kibble) and honestly I was not going to drive home a half hour... drop off the dogs and drive back a half hour and then back home a half hour... just wasn't going to happen so horror of horrors I left the dogs in the car for under three minutes while I ran into the feed store and grabbed a bag of food... 

some of the comments in this thread are incredibly judgemental, unrealistic and just ridiculous.... 

S


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## lgnutah (Feb 26, 2007)

kwhit said:


> I feel very strongly about this because my friend _had her dog stolen_ and she had often said what you said in the above quote. She moved to a really small town for her kids and was there 4 years before it happened. Same thing...doors left open, she knew everyone, and felt very safe, etc. I knew this dog before she moved and I loved her like she was my own. I, too, left previous dogs, (not Chance or Lucy), in the car while I ran errands...not anymore. It can happen anywhere, any place, any time. And it only takes seconds.
> 
> No broken glass, no evidence of a break in, just her dog's collar left on the seat. She never saw her again. So from then on I have been an advocate of never leaving dogs in cars alone, no matter the time of year. That's why I was being "testy".


Tragic story, but again, how likely an occurrence? 
My daughter's best friend went to a store with her sister in the middle of the day. They came out and as they got in the car, a man put a gun to my daughter's friend's head and demanded money.
Should no one ever go to stores? What about going to a store with your sister? What about getting into a car with your sister after shopping at a store?
You see where I am going with this. One must weigh risk and decide how likely it is that an event will turn out badly (or well) and act accordingly.
The same goes for making a decision about taking your dog with you, stopping on the way home to use the bathroom or get a loaf of bread.


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## booklady (Mar 3, 2009)

I live in a very, very small town that grows into a much bigger one in the summer...it's a beach town that is a tourist destination. We (thank God) are not having the massive heat so much of the rest of the country is, but it can get warm. 

Something happens to some people's brains when they go on vacation, I think they leave them at home. Anyway, it's come to the point where the town hires police cadets from the academy to take care of parking complaints and...........every ten or twenty minutes or so walk the parking lots to check for dogs! It's a rare warm day when two or three windows aren't broken out by the cadets and the dogs removed. It's not done willy-nilly, the temp is checked and the dog must be in obvious distress.

Kind of scary how many really stupid people are out there.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

lgnutah said:


> Tragic story, but again, how likely an occurrence?


Actually more than you think. The last year I worked at my store I had over a dozen stolen dog flyers posted through out the year. Unless you're privy to where people would report their dogs stolen, (just in case we would happen to see them in the store), or post flyers, you would never know about all the cases and all the heartache involved. 

I remember one of my customers looked for his Boston Terrier for over a year, he was completely broken by the theft. It was stolen from the Walmart parking lot and caught on film. Got the description of the car and the woman who took him, but not the license plate. 

So yeah, I've known a lot of cases of stolen dogs...


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Would never ever ever leave Daisy in a car alone in a Walmart shopping center, not even with the doors locked. The parking lots are huge, hundreds of people, no way to tell who's doing what. I can't even remember half the time where I park my car, I'd never find it at Walmart :

So I think Ignutah is right when she says each individual weighs the risks for their decisions and acts appropriately, for that person, for that situation, at that time. What I might do at the local Martin's down the street is not at all what I would do at a supercenter type shopping place.


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## mybuddy (Mar 2, 2007)

Jo Ellen said:


> Would never ever ever leave Daisy in a car alone in a Walmart shopping center, not even with the doors locked. The parking lots are huge, hundreds of people, no way to tell who's doing what. I can't even remember half the time where I park my car, I'd never find it at Walmart :
> 
> So I think Ignutah is right when she says each individual weighs the risks for their decisions and acts appropriately, for that person, for that situation, at that time. What I might do at the local Martin's down the street is not at all what I would do at a supercenter type shopping place.


 
This makes total sense


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Shalva said:


> Let me just say that maybe I am inept... but I can totally see myself doing this... S


I typed up a long post in response, but accidentally hit the backspace and lost it all... :doh: 

What I was going to say was basically this -

I am not calling myself perfect, Shalva. I said I forget my purse all the time. And the running joke at my work is that I have to do things right away if they are to be done, otherwise I forget all about them. Bosses come up and give me a verbal message to type up and send to customers, and two seconds later I'm sitting there staring blankly at the screen and trying to remember what the message was. 

Driving exhausted is something else I can definitely understand, since there is a certain pressure to hold down your job by working, even when you are tired, exhausted, or ill. I had pneumonia for three months, and only took three or four days off. And as you can imagine, driving while ill or exhausted means that every car I've owned has gotten a certain scratch dent pattern on the right side where I sometimes sleep-drive into the garage at the end of the day. :doh:

But all that said, I may be exhaused and dwelling on other things, but I can't comprehend forgetting that your baby is in the backseat. And going through a whole day of work without calling the daycare to check on your baby or talking to your husband to make sure everything was OK. And what about those pictures around your computer (I'm assuming that everyone has all of those family pictures to look at and help them get through the day), isn't there something wrong if you can look at a picture of your baby and not remember that the child is in the backseat? 

If people are that lost, there has to be something more wrong with them than just exhaustion and stress.

ETA - I never called any of the posters here dumb or inept.


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

Jo Ellen said:


> Would never ever ever leave Daisy in a car alone in a Walmart shopping center, not even with the doors locked. The parking lots are huge, hundreds of people, no way to tell who's doing what. I can't even remember half the time where I park my car, I'd never find it at Walmart :
> 
> So I think Ignutah is right when she says each individual weighs the risks for their decisions and acts appropriately, for that person, for that situation, at that time. What I might do at the local Martin's down the street is not at all what I would do at a supercenter type shopping place.


exactly!!! 

I would never leave my dogs in the car at a walmart... I have left them in the car while I stopped to eat and made sure that I sat somewhere with my car in sight at all times. 

I run into a store and I get the food and I watch the car the entire time... 

you have to weigh your risks and use common sense... based on where you live and your realistic options... 

but some of the dogmatic comments in this thread were a bit troublesome and honestly I can only imagine the tone and attitude of the original poster when she made her comments to the person who left their dog in the car... because there were many holier than thou comments in this thread... and you could kind of see the attitude in the post itself....


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Dog Napping Is On The Rise – How To Protect Yours | Animal Protect

Stolen Show Dogs: Show Dogs Worth $500K Stolen with Van from Bellflower Motel Found Safe - ktla.com

Champion of My Heart » Blog Archive » Two Stolen Malamutes Ukiah, California

Finding Stolen Dogs (linked in this GRF Sticky):
http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/golden-retriever-lost-found/61501-finding-stolen-dogs.html

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...tolen-11-month-old-golden-san-antonio-tx.html


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

lgnutah said:


> Tragic story, but again, how likely an occurrence?
> My daughter's best friend went to a store with her sister in the middle of the day. They came out and as they got in the car, a man put a gun to my daughter's friend's head and demanded money.
> Should no one ever go to stores? What about going to a store with your sister? What about getting into a car with your sister after shopping at a store?
> You see where I am going with this. One must weigh risk and decide how likely it is that an event will turn out badly (or well) and act accordingly.
> The same goes for making a decision about taking your dog with you, stopping on the way home to use the bathroom or get a loaf of bread.


To me it doesn't have to be a common occurrence for me to worry about it happening to me and mine. I was like that with my son while he was growing up and I am like that now with my dogs. I am a natural worrier and after hearing about a stolen car that happened in the summer time with a dog in a crate in the back and the vehicle was then abandoned with the dog in the crate in the back and the dog died a horrible death, I worry about that happening with my dogs. I can't lock my doors and leave my car running, so I go out of my way if they are with me and I need to stop to pick something up and I take them home. Or I plan ahead. Either way, I won't risk leaving my dogs in a hot car and I can't lock it while it's running, so I don't leave them alone. It only takes one time and I could never forgive myself if my dogs died because of something I did.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Jo Ellen said:


> Would never ever ever leave Daisy in a car alone in a Walmart shopping center, not even with the doors locked. The parking lots are huge, hundreds of people, no way to tell who's doing what.


But the point is that he had the same attitude that you have and that my friend had..."it'll never happen to me." He had done it a hundred times before with no problem. _It can happen anywhere and to anyone._


Most of the other dogs that were stolen, (from cars), and that had posters in my store took place in _extremely_ affluent areas. Very small centers, very intimate surroundings. It really doesn't matter where it happened, just that it _does happen_ and it can be _anywhere_. And as I stated before, it only takes _seconds_. 

This is just me, but I'd never do it. To those of you that do, well, that's your choice and I'm not going to judge you. We all love our dogs and do what we feel is best for them and I know that everyone on this board would never intentionally put their dogs in harms way.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Everyone here probably would make a sensible decision about leaving their dogs in the car according to heat, place etc.
But obviously everyone doesn't or there wouldn't be dead dogs in cars!

Also my daughter's best friend was abducted and murdered. My daughter was with her till right before she was taken. I was a total basket case with my girls after that, as many in our town were. Even things that happen rarely, can still happen to you and yours.


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

Honestly, I don't care if people don't like me "berating" them or screaming at them or sounding "holier than thou" ... I'm doing it for the DOG'S safety. I'm giving that dog a voice when I yell at someone for leaving them in a car. 

I was at some fireworks over fourth of July weekend (very hot that weekend) and there was a little minpin left in a car. Windows barely cracked. Barking. No owner in sight. 

Gary and I poured the bottle of water we had into the crack of the car and watched the dog lap it up... poor thing kept drinking and drinking. This was after we called 911. 

If the owners had come up to us... I don't know WHAT I would have said. It wouldn't have been nice.

Common sense isn't so common anymore.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

If I implied an attitude of _it will never happen to me_, i apologize, I didn't intend to give that impression. I do recall saying that about forgetting Daisy in the car, but not about her being stolen. I do take precautions, even when I think the risk is extremely low.

You've struck a nerve with me though. I would be inconsolable if something like that happened to Daisy. The next time I'm at the store where I shop, I'm going to check with the customer service manager to see if there's ever been a problem with this. I think I might call my local police department too. 

Thanks for making me think about it, Kwhit.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Debles said:


> Also my daughter's best friend was abducted and murdered. My daughter was with her till right before she was taken. I was a total basket case with my girls after that, as many in our town were. Even things that happen rarely, can still happen to you and yours.


I think we're all afraid of things like that. It must be even harder when it happens so close to home.


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

Mssjnnfer said:


> Honestly, I don't care if people don't like me "berating" them or screaming at them or sounding "holier than thou" ... I'm doing it for the DOG'S safety. I'm giving that dog a voice when I yell at someone for leaving them in a car.



and when you do that .... you get nowhere... you might feel better (although I doubt that) and the person you yelled at learns nothing... they immediately go on the defensive and you accomplish nothing because they tune you out... 

do you honestly think anyone listens to you when you do that??? 

if you are really doing it for the dogs... then use an approach that will work....and berating people is not the way to get people to change their behavior.


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## Deb_Bayne (Mar 18, 2011)

The law here in Ontario :

(The cruelty to animals charge falls under a summary conviction charge and entails an 18-month maximum sentence with fines up to $10,000).


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

Shalva said:


> and when you do that .... you get nowhere... you might feel better (although I doubt that) and the person you yelled at learns nothing... they immediately go on the defensive and you accomplish nothing because they tune you out...
> 
> do you honestly think anyone listens to you when you do that???
> 
> if you are really doing it for the dogs... then use an approach that will work....and berating people is not the way to get people to change their behavior.


Like I said. I don't care. I saved a dog's life. That does make me feel better. 

If they're going to ignore me for yelling and leave their dog in the car anyway (to spite me) well... they deserve the ticket they will get.


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

Mssjnnfer said:


> Like I said. I don't care. I saved a dog's life. That does make me feel better.
> 
> If they're going to ignore me for yelling and leave their dog in the car anyway (to spite me) well... they deserve the ticket they will get.


First if they tune you out then no you didn't save the dogs life.... 

second... they deserve the ticket they get...?? so really its not about the dog... its about them getting a ticket if they ignore you... so it really isn't about saving the dog... its about you being right.... 

and thus lies the problem 

because you catch more flies with sugar than vinegar... and if the goal really is to save the dogs life... then catching the fly by being nice... will have lastin g impact beyond them getting the ticket... so the next time they might think twice because the nice woman explained to them why its so dangerous and didnt just scream at them in the parking lot.... 

but if they don't listen to you then they deserve the ticket... go figure


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

Shalva said:


> First if they tune you out then no you didn't save the dogs life....
> 
> second... they deserve the ticket they get...?? so really its not about the dog... its about them getting a ticket if they ignore you... so it really isn't about saving the dog... its about you being right....
> 
> ...


Lol... Did you not read my original post? They leave their dog in the car, I call the cops. The cops come, let the dog out (thus saving the dog's life) and ticket the owner (thus teaching them a lesson) ... am I glad they would get punished? Yes, I am. Am I glad the dog didn't die? Yes, I am.


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## Mirinde (Jun 8, 2011)

I think Shalva's point was that the owner getting ticketed/you yelling at the owner doesn't make a difference in the long run. Helpfully and encouragingly giving them information about how rapidly cars heat up, etc. would probably make much more of a difference six months, a year, five years down the road. Getting ticketed and getting yelled at just makes most people defensive, angry, and sometimes they're inclined to do it more just to be spiteful.


example: People get speeding tickets, but continue to speed.


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

Mirinde said:


> I think Shalva's point was that the owner getting ticketed/you yelling at the owner doesn't make a difference in the long run. Helpfully and encouragingly giving them information about how rapidly cars heat up, etc. would probably make much more of a difference six months, a year, five years down the road. Getting ticketed and getting yelled at just makes most people defensive, angry, and sometimes they're inclined to do it more just to be spiteful.
> 
> 
> example: People get speeding tickets, but continue to speed.


Honestly. If someone is going to continue leaving their dog in a hot car to spite the world, perhaps they shouldn't own a dog. :no:


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## Mirinde (Jun 8, 2011)

I don't disagree, I very much agree. The problem is that people are that way and do continue to own dogs, so as dog lovers we have to approach them in a way that they can relate to rather than feel attacked. It makes them more open to listening and hopefully the information will set in as "This person provided me with honest and helpful facts" rather than "some crabbybutt yelled at me for leaving my dog in the car but *insert irresponsible justification here*".


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

Mirinde said:


> I think Shalva's point was that the owner getting ticketed/you yelling at the owner doesn't make a difference in the long run. Helpfully and encouragingly giving them information about how rapidly cars heat up, etc. would probably make much more of a difference six months, a year, five years down the road. Getting ticketed and getting yelled at just makes most people defensive, angry, and sometimes they're inclined to do it more just to be spiteful.
> 
> 
> example: People get speeding tickets, but continue to speed.



She said she doesn't care... and her responses are a perfect example of how defensive people get... but she is young... I could tell that before I went and checked... and like the college students I teach who are also young, heart is in the right place but wisdom not quite there yet....

over and out on this one... not worth the energy


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## Mirinde (Jun 8, 2011)

I'm actually turning eighteen in two weeks haha. Youth is not inherently bad!


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

Shalva said:


> She said she doesn't care... and her responses are a perfect example of how defensive people get... but she is young... I could tell that before I went and checked... and like the college students I teach who are also young, heart is in the right place but wisdom not quite there yet....


Yup. She doesn't care. Defensive implies irrational responses. I think I explained my reasoning well. I am pretty young, I'm 23 years old. Not really sure what wisdom has to do with age, but I guess?


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

Mssjnnfer said:


> Yup. She doesn't care. Defensive implies irrational responses. I think I explained my reasoning well. I am pretty young, I'm 23 years old. Not really sure what wisdom has to do with age, but I guess?



I think what she's trying to say, and you're not willing to hear, is that if you approach a total stranger and start yelling at them, they're going to tune you out and/or get really angry. They might knock you on your ass, they might tell you where to stick it and they might completely ignore you. The one thing they sure as heck WON'T do is change their behavior because of you. 

I always love it when someone says that people shouldn't be allowed to have a dog. According to a lot of those people, I shouldn't be allowed to have a dog, either. Thankfully, they didn't get to make that decision - and Max is the most well loved dog you could find. 

So you go ahead and yell your heart out, and call the cops, and feel all self righteous. Makes you feel good and obviously that's the most important thing. Those people you screamed at are gonna go get another puppy and treat it the same way they've treated the one you excoriated them about, but that's okay, you can just scream at them again.


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

laprincessa said:


> I always love it when someone says that people shouldn't be allowed to have a dog. According to a lot of those people, I shouldn't be allowed to have a dog, either. Thankfully, they didn't get to make that decision - and Max is the most well loved dog you could find.


Shoot maybe she is right .... maybe They shouldn't have a dog... but shoot there are a ton of people who shouldn't have kids and do... and honestly considering this is not a dictatorship with her as the dictator... WHO is going to stop them?? who is going to prevent them from having this dog or the next or the one after that... being all self righteous is not going to change that simple fact. 

I think thats what has bothered me about this entire thread... all the self righteous attitudes and comments.... 

nothing is that black and white folks

and to Mirinde... no there is nothing inherently wrong with being young... it is a time for learning and experimenting and all of that... and I am always pleased when I meet younger people (ie. my college students) who are mature and well spoken and know how to handle themselves... but when I read all this passion and not alot of wisdom about how best to handle the situation I can usually peg the age at early twenties.... as with everything some are more mature than others...


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

laprincessa said:


> I think what she's trying to say, and you're not willing to hear, is that if you approach a total stranger and start yelling at them, they're going to tune you out and/or get really angry. They might knock you on your ass, they might tell you where to stick it and they might completely ignore you. The one thing they sure as heck WON'T do is change their behavior because of you.
> 
> I always love it when someone says that people shouldn't be allowed to have a dog. According to a lot of those people, I shouldn't be allowed to have a dog, either. Thankfully, they didn't get to make that decision - and Max is the most well loved dog you could find.
> 
> So you go ahead and yell your heart out, and call the cops, and feel all self righteous. Makes you feel good and obviously that's the most important thing. Those people you screamed at are gonna go get another puppy and treat it the same way they've treated the one you excoriated them about, but that's okay, you can just scream at them again.


I heard what she said. I explained what I said. Perhaps I'm not old or wise enough to understand, though.  




Shalva said:


> Shoot maybe she is right .... maybe They shouldn't have a dog... but shoot there are a ton of people who shouldn't have kids and do... and honestly considering this is not a dictatorship with her as the dictator... WHO is going to stop them?? who is going to prevent them from having this dog or the next or the one after that... being all self righteous is not going to change that simple fact.
> 
> I think thats what has bothered me about this entire thread... all the self righteous attitudes and comments....
> 
> ...


Good morning! You must have more energy to post in this thread now that it's a new day! Just wondering, exactly what birthday can I expect that wisdom to come? Same with maturity? :wavey:


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Does anyone really think people who leave their dog in the car in horrible heat would actually listen even you are sweet as can be? I doubt it.

NO ONE likes to be told what to do or that they are n the wrong, no matter how nicely you put it. Calling the police is the only way. They may think twice about leaving their dog in a car again.


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## momtoMax (Apr 21, 2009)

Mirinde said:


> The problem is that people are that way and do continue to own dogs, so as dog lovers we have to approach them in a way that they can relate to rather than feel attacked.


 
The day I relate to an )#$(%$# who leaves their dog in a car when it's 100 degrees out is the day I need to do some sincere self introspection and see where I went wrong along the way.

There are just some things that a person can do which send me the message loud and clear that we would never be friends because I would never want to relate to them. For example, curse like a sailor at a children's park. Or using a racial or homosexual slur. Or disrespect their own children or parents. Or say, for example, leave their dog in a car on a 100 degree day.

Sorry but I'm not worried about relating to them - and being nice gets you no where. I am assertive when I choose to impose on anybody's way of doing things and there's nothing wrong with that. You can stand up against the wrongdoing without being mean and awful to the person who is doing it but that doesn't mean you should play pussyfoot either.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

I think, the point is to help the dog, at the time you are there in the same place, i ,or you can do nothing, when we are not there, and they do it again, if they do, but in the then and there we can, and we should, the dog is the point!


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Debles said:


> Calling the police is the only way. They may think twice about leaving their dog in a car again.



I've called the police on two instances. One, a customer was _beating_ his Rottie in my parking lot. Not just a smack, but a full blown beating. He had hit the dog in my shop so I had kicked him out. He continued the beating outside. 

This guy was huge..6'3" and at least 250 lbs. I was yelling at him to stop, but he ignored me. I told him I was calling the police and he said they had better things to do. Well...little did he know that one of my employee's husband was a K9 officer and he was there with AC in a matter of minutes. The guy was so surprised that the cops came soooo fast. He tried to leave, but he wasn't fast enough. This jerk had a warrant out on him, so they took him in. The dog was limping so he went straight to the vet. He was later placed with a Rottie rescue that our store worked with. CFS...(Can't fix stupid).

The other time a woman left her dog, (a Chihuahua), in her van, (windows up), to go grocery shopping. It was so hot that day. A customer came in and told us about it, she had confronted the lady before she went in the store and _nicely_ told her it wasn't a good idea to leave he dog in this hot weather. The woman ignored her so she came to the pet store to let us know, and I went into Lucky's to have them announce it. We waited and no one came forward. They announced that the police will be called and still no one showed up.

So, I called the police. They were there in about 5 minutes, broke into her car and got the dog. The AC guy said if it was any later the dog probably wouldn't have made it. When they took it out of the car it was like a rag doll. I swear I thought it was dead. AC took it to a vet and the cop waited for the woman to come out of the store. When she did, (there was quite a crowd by then), he cited her and explained the situation. She said she wasn't aware it was bad to do that, but then the lady who had told her originally, came forward and said, "Oh that's not true, I told you not to do it." The lady shut up at that point. 

So sometimes being nice won't do any good either. You _have_ to act in the best interest of the dog in whatever way you can. If it's calling the cops great, if the person will listen to reason, wonderful. But the animal has to come first. Period. They can't speak for themselves, _so we have to be their voice_. Whether it's a loud voice or a soft voice as long as it gets heard is all that matters.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> You _have_ to act in the best interest of the dog in whatever way you can. If it's calling the cops great, if the person will listen to reason, wonderful. But the animal has to come first. Period. They can't speak for themselves, _so we have to be their voice_. Whether it's a loud voice or a soft voice as long as it gets heard is all that matters.


This is very true and I truly doubt that anyone would disagree with this or your post. I think it comes down to discerning the difference between a harmless situation and one that is very bad for the animal. 

As I said last night - I might think people are nuts for taking their dogs out walking in 85 degree weather, because I don't do that myself (not counting the walk between my car and the lake). But I'm not about to call those people who do walk in 85 degree weather abusive and confront them. Because that would be doofy. 

Now if they were jogging with those dogs, especially a longish distance - that's a completely different thing. 

If somebody leaves their dog in the car briefly and opens the window, and parks in a shaded area or whatnot and plans to be out in less than a couple minutes, that's not the same as somebody leaving a dog in a sealed car or even an open window car for a long period. 

One advice I have for people who see a situation (dog in the car on a warm day with windows open), I suggest they peek into the car to see how the dog is doing. If the dog is showing signs of heat stress, definitely call 911. If the dog looks fine and seems alert, then go up to the store and wait. Depending on how hot it is outside, wait 5 to 10 minutes and if the owner doesn't come outside, call 911. 

In the case I mentioned that lady came rushing into the petstore and essentially accused me of abuse, my dog was cool as a cucumber in my car and not exhibiting any signs of heat stress.

If a dog looks like this:



Or this:



And even if he's panting and drooling _a little_, that does not necessarily mean he's exhibiting signs of heat stress. 

The above pics are what my guy usually looks like in the two minutes or so that I leave him in the car. That intense staring is him trying to keep an eye on me inside whatever store I'm dashing in and out of. 

The after part of those pictures was me getting into the car, making the golden tornado settle down, and driving over to the nearby lake...


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Goldensrbest*

Goldensrbest

Thank you for calling the police!


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

Megora said:


> This is very true and I truly doubt that anyone would disagree with this or your post. I think it comes down to discerning the difference between a harmless situation and one that is very bad for the animal.
> 
> As I said last night - I might think people are nuts for taking their dogs out walking in 85 degree weather, because I don't do that myself (not counting the walk between my car and the lake). But I'm not about to call those people who do walk in 85 degree weather abusive and confront them. Because that would be doofy.
> 
> ...


Pictures didn't show up!  

The walking/jogging in the heat thing, I personally think, is a very different situation. They have fresh air, at least... you have to gauge how well your dog handles the heat. Missy doesn't seem to care or know that it's way hot out, while I have to coerce Mojo to even go out to potty. He hates the heat (like his momma LOL) so we walk him when it's dark out. Missy gets walked in the evening while it's still light, but still warmish. 

I don't know any dog that would like sitting in a hot car, though.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Mssjnnfer said:


> Pictures didn't show up!
> .


**** That's because apparently you have to be logged into my one account in order to see them. #doh

I pasted them over from somewhere else.


Walking outside doesn't necessarily mean fresh air. It's been like a sauna this whole week. Which is why my hair has been knotted up in a ponytail or bun this whole week to hide the frizz.


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

Megora said:


> I can see them in your quote...
> 
> Walking outside doesn't necessarily mean fresh air. It's been like a sauna this whole week. Which is why my hair has been knotted up in a ponytail or bun this whole week to hide the frizz.


It's not just stale air that's stuck in a car, though.

Oh, I have to put mousse or something in my hair after showering now, otherwise it's frizz city. I have naturally curly hair. Not a fan of hot and humid, lol.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

It's the radiant heat that is so dangerous in cars-it easily heats up higher than the air temperature. Sunny day, concrete or asphalt parking lot, closed windows, ignition off-- all contribute to fatalities, in a matter of minutes. Waiting 5-10 minutes here could mean a dog is dead, depending on their health status.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Dallas Gold said:


> It's the radiant heat that is so dangerous in cars-it easily heats up higher than the air temperature. Sunny day, concrete or asphalt parking lot, closed windows, ignition off-- all contribute to fatalities, in a matter of minutes. Waiting 5-10 minutes here could mean a dog is dead, depending on their health status.


That is where you take the type of heat or amount of heat into consideration as well as looking in at the dog to check his status. As well as whether the windows are open or shut or the owner left the car running with the AC on, or if there are fans or coolers in the car... 

All situations are not harmful to the dog. That's where you use common sense and judgment.


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## Mms (Dec 13, 2009)

I'm sorry, but some people are acting a bit ridiculous about this. I completely agree that many people, like the lady in the original post, are idiots and shouldn't own dogs because of this kind of behavior. However, saying that walking a dog in 80+ weather is bad is just ignorant. I live in Northeast Texas where it is 80+ and humid about 70% of the year. Is Gracie supposed to sit inside, miserable, bored, anxious, and unhealthy because we don't live in wonderland where it's constantly in the 60s and 70s? No. Not everybody lives in a perfect world under perfect conditions. That's why both dogs and humans can adapt to conditions within reasonable limits. And personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with leaving your dog in the car for one minute where you can see them. You say to bring your dog home first or plan so you won't need to fill up on gas with the dog. What if you're on a 6 hour trip? Are you supposed to carry containers of gas in the back and relieve yourself on the side of the road the whole way? It's ridiculous to suggest that stopping at a gas station for two minutes is "cruel" or "neglectful."

And I don't think anybody's going to break into a car in broad daylight in public to steal a grown dog while there are thousands just like that one in shelters for free, no risk of prison involved. Be careful, but not too careful. If you are you'll end up hurting yourself and others in the process.

In the meantime, I'm very grateful for people like goldensrbest who take action when the situation is legitimately dangerous.


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## Enzos_Mom (Apr 8, 2010)

Megora said:


> This is very true and I truly doubt that anyone would disagree with this or your post. I think it comes down to discerning the difference between a harmless situation and one that is very bad for the animal.
> 
> As I said last night - I might think people are nuts for taking their dogs out walking in 85 degree weather, because I don't do that myself (not counting the walk between my car and the lake). But I'm not about to call those people who do walk in 85 degree weather abusive and confront them. Because that would be doofy.
> 
> ...


These pictures don't illustrate the story you told because you can obviously tell that they were taken by someone from INSIDE the car, meaning that your dog wasn't left in the car alone....


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Mms said:


> And I don't think anybody's going to break into a car in broad daylight in public to steal a grown dog while there are thousands just like that one in shelters for free, no risk of prison involved.



You're fooling yourself if you believe this to be true. No one will pay a reward for a shelter dog. And the last time I checked, shelter dogs weren't free.


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## momtoMax (Apr 21, 2009)

Mms said:


> I'm sorry, but some people are acting a bit ridiculous about this. I completely agree that many people, like the lady in the original post, are idiots and shouldn't own dogs because of this kind of behavior. However, saying that walking a dog in 80+ weather is bad is just ignorant. I live in Northeast Texas where it is 80+ and humid about 70% of the year. Is Gracie supposed to sit inside, miserable, bored, anxious, and unhealthy because we don't live in wonderland where it's constantly in the 60s and 70s? No. Not everybody lives in a perfect world under perfect conditions. That's why both dogs and humans can adapt to conditions within reasonable limits. And personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with leaving your dog in the car for one minute where you can see them. You say to bring your dog home first or plan so you won't need to fill up on gas with the dog. What if you're on a 6 hour trip? Are you supposed to carry containers of gas in the back and relieve yourself on the side of the road the whole way? It's ridiculous to suggest that stopping at a gas station for two minutes is "cruel" or "neglectful."
> 
> And I don't think anybody's going to break into a car in broad daylight in public to steal a grown dog while there are thousands just like that one in shelters for free, no risk of prison involved. Be careful, but not too careful. If you are you'll end up hurting yourself and others in the process.
> 
> In the meantime, I'm very grateful for people like goldensrbest who take action when the situation is legitimately dangerous.


Google

Sometimes it's not the dog they want. 

And while it's easy to call protective dog owners "ridiculous" now, it won't be them who has an overheated dog and someday that may happen to you as you are out there in the heat with your dog. Don't throw stones when you know you take a bit of risk being out there. I know I've overextended my Willow when she was young but luckily we never had any lasting effects. It's very good to be aware of the potential of overheating yourself and your pup in the summer, know the signs, and when to find some shade and sit when you see them. I don't think it's right to call those who err on the very safest side for the love of their dogs ridiculous. This heat wave has been killing people as well so everyone here has reason to be worried not only about dogs in cars, but kids, and older people's health throughout this as well.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

I'm wondering how this kind of thing works at dog shows and for dogs that work in the field, including training. I've heard of dogs being left in vehicles at dog shows, even when it's hot. Maybe some of the showers/trainers will chime in here.


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

Mms said:


> I completely agree that many people, like the lady in the original post, are idiots and *shouldn't own dogs* because of this kind of behavior.


Uh oh! You're not supposed to say that! :uhoh::uhoh::uhoh:


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Jo Ellen said:


> I'm wondering how this kind of thing works at dog shows and for dogs that work in the field, including training. I've heard of dogs being left in vehicles at dog shows, even when it's hot. Maybe some of the showers/trainers will chime in here.


From what I've seen in the parking lot of the show we go to, many have motor homes and/or separate generators that run AC. I also see that most times if the dogs are in the motor home, there is someone with them.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

momtoMax said:


> Google
> 
> Sometimes it's not the dog they want.


That's why I never leave the car running when I have Daisy with me and I need to run into the store.


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## Pilgrim (Jul 22, 2011)

I've just read this entire dog and totally agree that leaving any living thing in a car on a hot day without the A/C running is dangerous practice. saying that, sometimes there are super-quick errands where you can see your dog through the windows the entire time that may be unavoidable. Good sense rules! 

I am laughing, however, about the subject for this thread - as we have never left a large retriever in any car. Why? Our Chessie was in the back seat after her wildly successful first puppy obedience class. Honestly, she was the star of the class. We were feeling a little sinful pride. On the ten minute ride home with both of us in the car, our star-of-the-class proceeded to eat the back seat of our new Toyota. That is the last time she rode in a seat by herself. Obviously, we would never have been foolish enough to leave her alone in a delicious-tasting vehicle! Our Lab was never left alone in a vehicle. Why? Her body was one determined muscle. It was impossible to egress from the car without the Lab managing to get there first. One person always stayed in the vehicle with her - with the Lab on a leash. (She just hated to be left behind.) That's almost 30 years of dog-rearing. So we would never consider leaving our puppy alone in a car. We've forgotten that is even possible!

The temperatures lately have been grueling for pets and people alike. Here's hoping the days get cooler - for all of us.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Jo Ellen said:


> I'm wondering how this kind of thing works at dog shows and for dogs that work in the field, including training. I've heard of dogs being left in vehicles at dog shows, even when it's hot. Maybe some of the showers/trainers will chime in here.


Those of us who show and train use a variety of things to help keep our dogs cool. We will frequently set out shade tents with solar blankets, the hum of fans is a familiar and comforting sound, some dogs wear cooling jackets and/or lie on cooling pads. the dogs are wet down with air flow as needed.

Working out of regular vehicles, the vehicles are wide open with solar blankets protecting the interior of the cars from the sun. Again the sound of fans running is a constant. Most people check on their dogs often or stay with them pretty much all the time. Natural shade is a blessing but we still need to keep an eye on the sun to move the solar blankets. Vehicles are started to allow the A/C to run if needed (with us in the vehicle)

Many field folk have dog boxes which are metallic and stay much cooler, and again either fans or air conditioners are a steady back ground hum. Dogs are staked out while wet rather than being put in these boxes since wet dogs need AIRFLOW to cool them down - once dry the boxes are safe and cool.

Water and usually ice are always provided, and our dogs are taken care of before we are .. there are people around at all times and any dog showing signs of distress is gotten out of wherever they are, there are generally pools and/or hoses to wet a dog down. There are always vets on site or on call in the event a dog needs one - this is generally for injuries though.

At agility trials there are many people who bring mobile homes that are kept running with the A/C on - this method I personally would not trust unless there was a temperature alarm that was very, very loud.

The key thing to remember about keeping and getting our dogs safe is to do all we can to keep their temperature normal and watch for any of the signs (eyes, tongue and energy) that our dogs are getting hot ; knowing that water and evaporation are key - both to help keep our dogs cool and to get them cooled down as needed - if a dog starts to overheat fast action is required ... 

So yes, we do work our dogs in the heat, but with common sense as well. Many of us in this recent heat wave have NOT worked our dogs - if they are not accustomed to 100+ degree temperatures it is far better to wait until the temps cool down. We do not leave our dogs in a closed vehicle baking in the sun and honestly with proper precautions it is relatively safe - in those cases where something happens I think I can honestly say that noone has ever complained about their busted window; I cannot say it is 100% safe but truthfully neither is leaving your dog at home.

Edit to add: And for only the 2nd time in my memory a show was canceled this past Friday due to excessive heat - this is very rare ...

Edit 2: and wire crate and X-pens allow more air flow than the plastic airline types


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Jo Ellen said:


> That's why I never leave the car running when I have Daisy with me and I need to run into the store.


Unfortunately here they break into locked cars in a matter of seconds to steal the dogs-it happened at a Home Depot about 3 miles from my house several years ago. It broke my heart to see the poor owner post signs everywhere with the story. At the time, Home Depot allowed dogs in the store (not anymore thanks to a clueless owner ), so the event was even more troubling. 

I totally get it that you live in a small town and this probably not as risky, but here in the big bad city there are lots of terrible things going on with animal thefts, including stealing a cat from the SPCA adoption area of a local Petco --caught on security tapes too! Then there are the thefts of dogs from people's back yards. Every few months we get Amber alerts involving car thefts of people filling the gas tanks with children in the car while the parent is inside paying. I don't know why they just don't pay at the pump but they are usually inside the store and the car gets stolen in seconds. It could easily be someone's dog in that type of situation. That's why so many of us are extra protective of our animals--we hear these stories so often.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Pilgrim said:


> I've just read this entire dog and totally agree that leaving any living thing in a car on a hot day without the A/C running is dangerous practice. saying that, sometimes there are super-quick errands where you can see your dog through the windows the entire time that may be unavoidable. Good sense rules!
> 
> I am laughing, however, about the subject for this thread - as we have never left a large retriever in any car. Why? Our Chessie was in the back seat after her wildly successful first puppy obedience class. Honestly, she was the star of the class. We were feeling a little sinful pride. On the ten minute ride home with both of us in the car, our star-of-the-class proceeded to eat the back seat of our new Toyota. That is the last time she rode in a seat by herself. Obviously, we would never have been foolish enough to leave her alone in a delicious-tasting vehicle! Our Lab was never left alone in a vehicle. Why? Her body was one determined muscle. It was impossible to egress from the car without the Lab managing to get there first. One person always stayed in the vehicle with her - with the Lab on a leash. (She just hated to be left behind.) That's almost 30 years of dog-rearing. So we would never consider leaving our puppy alone in a car. We've forgotten that is even possible!
> 
> The temperatures lately have been grueling for pets and people alike. Here's hoping the days get cooler - for all of us.


and I had a dog who knew how to open car windows on his own by pressing the window button, scaring me almost to death! Thank goodness he was seat belted in and we were able to get the child locks working so he wouldn't roll it back up with his head sticking out. We learned from that experience to always keep the child locks on when he was in the car with us.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

I never go inside to pay for my gas. I use my debit card and pay for it right there at the pump. 

If I lived in a bigger city or heard even one report of something like this happening in my area, I would be changing my ways. It took some getting used to moving from Seattle to this rural area of Pennsylvania, but like I said, I have never in my life felt this safe. I do still take reasonable precautions.

Anyone seen that old movie with Steve Martin, Grand Canyon? I think the primary theme of that movie was how much we live in fear. I don't live like that anymore.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Jo Ellen said:


> I never go inside to pay for my gas. I use my debit card and pay for it right there at the pump.
> 
> If I lived in a bigger city or heard even one report of something like this happening in my area, I would be changing my ways. It took some getting used to moving from Seattle to this rural area of Pennsylvania, but like I said, I have never in my life felt this safe. I do still take reasonable precautions.
> 
> Anyone seen that old movie with Steve Martin, Grand Canyon? I think the primary theme of that movie was how much we live in fear. I don't live like that anymore.


We don't live in fear, we are just very aware of potential risks and take precautions so we don't suffer a heartache.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Enzos_Mom said:


> These pictures don't illustrate the story you told because you can obviously tell that they were taken by someone from INSIDE the car, meaning that your dog wasn't left in the car alone....


You missed my point or I didn't express it very well. When I come back to the car or if I'm peeping out the front door of stores, my dog looks EXACTLY like that.  That's why I showed those pictures. I got the impression from some of the posts on this thread that people are imagining that I'm advocating leaving dogs in the car to melt while I run into the store. I would never leave my dog in conditions like that and I would be horrified if anyone else did. 

In those pictures, I had left him in the car with somebody else while I ran in to the gas station. And in mostly the same situation that he's normally left when alone in the car (ie, me hurrying up and getting back out to he car asap). Those conditions I leave him in means he's alert and watching for me when I return to the car. 

@dog shows or matches - I think this depends. 

The dogs shows generally have campers and or similar setups with generators and fans running. Fun matches and training places are a bit different. Those are the cases where they open up the cars to keep air moving and set everything up to keep the dogs cool. <- It's not something I would do, but the dogs don't really seem uncomfortable.



> I don't know why they just don't pay at the pump


It could be different where you live, but over here gas can be 5-10 cents cheaper if you pay in cash. When you spend $60 a week on gas anyway, it's worth the walk across the lot to pay inside. 

Also speaking for myself, I refuse to use my credit cards for anything besides emergencies. I want to keep them close to zero as much as possible.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

While I was googling this information on the web, I ran across this website -- Mute, the Silence of Dogs in Cars -- depicted in art.

Martin Usborne


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Dallas Gold said:


> We don't live in fear, we are just very aware of potential risks and take precautions so we don't suffer a heartache.


Everyone lives in fear, it's just a matter of how much. If we didn't live in fear, there would be no need for taking precautions.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Jo Ellen said:


> Everyone lives in fear, it's just a matter of how much. If we didn't live in fear, there would be no need for taking precautions.


OK, but as long as we are "parsing" words, we don't let it rule our lives or affect our happiness.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Dallas Gold said:


> OK, but as long as we are "parsing" words, we don't let it rule our lives or affect our happiness.


 That's healthy. 

I've really given the points in this thread a lot of consideration. I think it's been a very valuable discussion that causes all of us to re-evaluate our complacencies -- that's a good thing!

I do think we need to be very careful when we become critical that someone else doesn't have the same fears that we do, that we think should be reasonable fears for anyone. I think fears are based in large part on personal experience. What causes one person fear might not feel very realistic for someone else. I'm terrified of my house buring down when Daisy is home alone. Terrified. My sister's house burned down awhile back, she lost all her pets. That's a very real concern for me. On the other hand, I have no personal experiences to draw on with dogs being stolen out of a car -- hasn't happened to anyone I know here (or anyone I've known ever), it's not in the headlines, not in the news. I googled that topic for my town and didn't find anything except activists stealing dogs that were chained (like Tammy Grimes of Dogs Deserve Better).


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

Here's a scenario that happened just today...most often EVERY day. I take Penny to the barn with me. I started leaving the back hatch of the car open when it was very cold so she could choose to be off the snow and out of the wind. Of course she could have choosen that by being in the barn, too. 

She chooses to wait in the car. The windows are down, the car is in the sun (no trees taller than me), the engine and a/c is off. Now the difference is that she can get out when she chooses, but, according to the most zealot here she should not be in the car AT ALL.

Also, I think conditioning has a lot to do with how animals and people handle the heat as well as human attitudes towards heat. I hate the hot weather...over 80*...and so I don't go out in it. I don't walk Penny, I don't ride. None of us are conditioned to it. There's a horse show this weekend. People are working their horses in the heat. Mine were clamoring at the gate @ 10:30 to be let back into the barn; 2 hours outside was plenty for them. We're not at the show because 1) I hate hot weather; 2) my horses don't even want to stand in the sun, let alone work; 3) none of us are conditioned for it.

So, for the woman in Dallas who's weather is almost always hot: I'm sure your dog is fine in the heat. Like you say, if you waited for ideal temps you'd never go out. 

What I am getting out of this thread is that I have to live in fear of some zealot calling the police on me because it's THEIR perception that I am harming my dog. It's THEIR belief that my dog should not be in the car if I stop for gas, to go potty or run into the store for a moment. That fact that judgmental people are watching and ready to take action regardless of common sense scares the bejeezus out of me.


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## Mms (Dec 13, 2009)

Mssjnnfer said:


> Uh oh! You're not supposed to say that! :uhoh::uhoh::uhoh:


Um, why??? I think we all agree that people like that woman shouldn't own a dog.

There's a difference between saying I should be careful and aware of the signs of heat stroke and saying I shouldn't be walking my dog at all. As for the subject of breaking into a car, if I am in a small town where I'm comfortable leaving my car unlocked with the keys inside in my driveway and it is broad daylight, and there are other people around, and I can see my car, it's extremely unlikely somebody will even attempt break into the car. I'm not calling the people "ridiculous" for being cautious with their own dogs, I'm saying their statements are "ridiculous" for not realizing that some people can't help the situation and must weigh risks. Like what I said before, should I take the risk of heat stroke or let Gracie live a miserable life because she never gets to see daylight? Like others said, this is where common sense comes to play. I'm cautious, but I don't live in a bubble so that nothing can hurt me.


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

Mms said:


> Um, why??? I think we all agree that people like that woman shouldn't own a dog.


Oh, I completely agree with you! Some people don't agree, though.


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

Mssjnnfer said:


> Oh, I completely agree with you! Some people don't agree, though.



OH GIVE ME A BREAK!! 
honestly 

should that woman own a dog.... Probably not .... so I suggest that you call the people that control who should and shouldn't have a dog.... that will take care of it!! 

Can't do that huh??? why not??? CAUSE THEY DONT EXIST 

so stating that someone should or shouldn't have a dog is just ridiculous in the same way that there are a ton of folks who shouldn't have kids... well duh... BUT WHO'S gonna stop them and that is the issue. 

to rely on arguments that say she shouldn't have a dog at all is all fine and dandy and is basically hot air... because the reality is that there is nobody handing out permits... stating who can and can't have dogs... 

honestly


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

See? I told you not everyone will agree with you, Mms.


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## Mms (Dec 13, 2009)

Shalva said:


> OH GIVE ME A BREAK!!
> honestly
> 
> should that woman own a dog.... Probably not .... so I suggest that you call the people that control who should and shouldn't have a dog.... that will take care of it!!
> ...


Well, of course you can't keep people from owning dogs but that doesn't mean that they should own them. And I don't think it should be illegal for certain people to own dogs based on the opinion of a few. And I'm not relying on an argument saying she shouldn't have a dog. I simply said that I agree that she's a bad dog owner. It's my opinion. Opinions aren't dictated by laws or permits.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Actually, I've parked many times right next to a policeman at the convenience store where I sometimes leave Daisy in the car alone for a few minutes, even when it's been very hot. I think policemen, in general, are capable of discerning when there's a problem and when there's not. I don't really worry a whole lot about getting into trouble, I DO worry about what people might think because they don't know me. But anyone who knows me knows I would never do anything to harm Daisy and that I'm really very much over the top in taking care of her.


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

I'd rather be safe than sorry. 

I'd rather have people care a little too much than not enough. 

I personally don't think people care enough about other people or other animals in this world.






Watch this. It's from the show "What Would You Do?"

So, if you do worry about the police being called, I wouldn't... seems like most people *don't* care. 

By the way: Rider is adorable. I love her sugar face.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

I saw that episode, and it really made me angry - because even the firemen who should have known the law or at least cared about the well being of the dog didn't do the right thing.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

So if I had my dog in the car on a hot day and I ran into the store to get something quickly, would you mind if you were ahead of me in line if I asked you if I could cut in front of you? I've done that before. I often wonder how people feel about that, but I always do explain it's because I have my dog in the car.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I do not leave my dogs in a hot car for any amount of time. The heat and humidity is just too much down here - I feel lightheaded just walking from my front door to the car sometimes. However, with the amount of traveling I do with my dogs, it is inevitable that I will have to leave them in the car sometimes. So I leave the car running and lock it up with another set of keys. Yes I do run the risk of someone breaking in and driving off with my van. But for me leaving them in the car in the summer is just not an option, so my only other option would be to not travel with them at all.

I do not see it being too far fetched that I could possibly forget a dog in the car someday though. I pray that never happens, but I wouldn't say it isn't possible. I know when I am driving to work I start to drive on auto pilot. I can't tell you how many times I have meant to go to work a different way but once I started driving just totally forgot and went the usual route. So I can see the possibility of maybe needing to drop a dog off at the vets, going on autopilot on the way to work and forgetting all about it. And since my dogs sleep quietly in their crates while they are in the car, they wouldn't attract my attention once I got to work. This isn't to say I don't think constantly about my dogs...my entire life and every decision I make revolves around them. I bought the vehicle I did for them, I bought the house I did for them, I work a second job whose check gets deposited in an account just for them. They are my world and I think of them every moment of the day yet I can still see having that horrible mistake happen.


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## Mms (Dec 13, 2009)

Mssjnnfer said:


> I'd rather be safe than sorry.
> 
> I'd rather have people care a little too much than not enough.
> 
> ...


People thought the owner was nearby? While the dog was barking her head off? Yeah, sure.


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

Jo Ellen said:


> So if I had my dog in the car on a hot day and I ran into the store to get something quickly, would you mind if you were ahead of me in line if I asked you if I could cut in front of you? I've done that before. I often wonder how people feel about that, but I always do explain it's because I have my dog in the car.


I would definitely let you ahead of me! 99.9% of the time when I'm grocery shopping, I'm not in a hurry. lol. If I see someone has only a few things, or kids... or are elderly or something, I always offer them to go ahead of me.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Mssjnnfer said:


> I would definitely let you ahead of me! 99.9% of the time when I'm grocery shopping, I'm not in a hurry. lol. If I see someone has only a few things, or kids... or are elderly or something, I always offer them to go ahead of me.


Thank you :smooch:


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

Jo Ellen said:


> Thank you :smooch:


 No problem!


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Loisiana said:


> I do not see it being too far fetched that I could possibly forget a dog in the car someday though. I pray that never happens, but I wouldn't say it isn't possible.


This is very true. I'm a single mom with two kids, (well, my son is almost 26, so not much of a kid anymore). Anyway, I've been responsible for driving and picking them up from school the whole time they've gone. 

One day last year, I _forgot_ to pick up my daughter...Now mind you, I have been doing the same thing, same times, same schools for over 20 years...but this one day I forgot. She was safe, (she's 16 and the school library stays open late), and I was only 1/2 hour late, but still, I forgot and it could have been much worse if the circumstances were different. 

So things happen. We're human...we forget. Yes, most of the time our forgetfulness doesn't cause any harm, but sometimes it does. And in the most unimaginable and heartbreaking ways.  

Before it happened, I would have never thought that I would ever forget to pick up one of my kids from school. But it did happen, so I can see now how other things could happen, also.


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

Question.

Let's say you did forget your dog (or child) in the car. Like it's been said, we're humans, things happen.

Wouldn't you be glad if someone called the police or broke down the window or SOMETHING to save your dog or child?


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Mssjnnfer said:


> Question.
> 
> Let's say you did forget your dog (or child) in the car. Like it's been said, we're humans, things happen.
> 
> Wouldn't you be glad if someone called the police or broke down the window or SOMETHING to save your dog or child?


Absolutely without a doubt...YES!


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

I can see how that might happen if the person has too much on their mind and are very, very busy.

People are different, they lead different lives, they have different circumstances. I just do not see that because it can happen to someone means it could happen to anyone. 

*It could not happen to me.*


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## momtoMax (Apr 21, 2009)

Jo Ellen said:


> So if I had my dog in the car on a hot day and I ran into the store to get something quickly, would you mind if you were ahead of me in line if I asked you if I could cut in front of you? I've done that before. I often wonder how people feel about that, but I always do explain it's because I have my dog in the car.


 
Honestly, not knowing you, I'd let you cut but I'd be thinking, next time, leave your poor dog at home.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

I remember, after my son died in 1998, there were times, i had to drive to go get things we needed, on the way back, my mind at times ,would go blank, i would end up home, but not remember, driving, stop lights, it was real frightening, it happend a few times.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

momtoMax said:


> Honestly, not knowing you, I'd let you cut but I'd be thinking, next time, leave your poor dog at home.


Okay, now I'm going to get defensive. You might think that but honestly, if you knew me and if you knew Daisy, you would not think of her as "poor dog."

I'd like you to think about that the next time you're assessing a situation that you aren't completely familiar with.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

goldensrbest said:


> I remember, after my son died in 1998, there were times, i had to drive to go get things we needed, on the way back, my mind at times ,would go blank, i would end up home, but not remember, driving, stop lights, it was real frightening, it happend a few times.


I can do that too. I think that's an entirely different set of cognitive rules than having your dog in the car with you.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I'm sorry... I still can't comprehend forgetting your dog or child is in the car you are driving around in. And I wouldn't make excuses for people who do that. 

There is a huge difference between that and forgetting to pick somebody up. Forgetting to pick somebody up because you are ultra busy or started heading home vs altering your route to pick up that person - that HAPPENS all the time. One of my sisters has epilepsy and has to rely on family or friends to take her to work and pick her up (she hasn't had a seizure in years but she's still terrified of driving knowing it could happen). She has gotten into the habit of calling ahead of time to remind people to pick her up, because she has been stranded that many times. 

If you find yourself forgetting the precious items riding around with you, it sounds like you need to do mental strengthening exercises or get in the habit of looking in the back of your car. 

@waiting in line - I meant to say earlier, but not all of us live in big cities... and not all of us are shopping during busy hours.  When I go in that petstore close to the hwy, I'm usually the only person in the store besides the clerks. And even the other grocery stores, the only times there are major league lines is before Thanksgiving and Christmas. Otherwise, pick a good hour in the morning or evening and you are in and out.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

Yes, but my point is this, since you all took my thread, of me calling the police, on a person, that left, her dog, in the car, on the hotest day we have had here, and turned it into other things, i can add to this also, your mind can do tricks on you, so forgetting a dog, a child i guess could happen, i am allowed to make my point also!!!!


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## momtoMax (Apr 21, 2009)

Jo Ellen said:


> Okay, now I'm going to get defensive. You might think that but honestly, if you knew me and if you knew Daisy, you would not think of her as "poor dog."
> 
> I'd like you to think about that the next time you're assessing a situation that you aren't completely familiar with.


 
I'm sorry but I thought you asked what people might think and that's what I would be thinking. If you think that every stranger you meet is going to pschyically..is that even a word? pick up on how awesome of a dog owner you are, then you are mistaken. I'm only one person and I admit I'm not the most patient person when it comes to strangers so no, that's not going to change my thought process. From experience, I know that owners like you are not the rule or even 30% of the population of people I know that have dogs.


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## momtoMax (Apr 21, 2009)

goldensrbest said:


> Yes, but my point is this, since you all took my thread, of me calling the police, on a person, that left, her dog, in the car, on the hotest day we have had here, and turned it into other things, i can add to this also, your mind can do tricks on you, so forgetting a dog, a child i guess could happen, i am allowed to make my point also!!!!


 
I don't think it's taken over, I think it's pretty much on track and a good place to talk about something that likely everyone of us has seen as some point in our life.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

goldensrbest said:


> Yes, but my point is this, since you all took my thread, of me calling the police, on a person, that left, her dog, in the car, on the hotest day we have had here, and turned it into other things, i can add to this also, your mind can do tricks on you, so forgetting a dog, a child i guess could happen, i am allowed to make my point also!!!!


I agree with you completely, it is a valid point, I understand it happens and it's a tragic, tragic thing, whether it's a child or a pet. 

What I am arguing with, vehemently, is that it can happen to me. I am taking issue with people who think that because it can happen to someone that it can happen to anyone. That's not true. Maybe if I had a different life with children going a mile a minute everyday ... but not with my life the way it is now. My life is too simple, my mind is not over-taxed with so many things to get done that I could ever forget that Daisy is in my car, much less on a hot day. I can never, have never, will never forget about Daisy. Period, that simple.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Megora said:


> I'm sorry... I still can't comprehend forgetting your dog or child is in the car you are driving around in. And I wouldn't make excuses for people who do that.
> 
> There is a huge difference between that and forgetting to pick somebody up.


My point wasn't to compare the two...it was to illustrate that you can do things that you would have previously vehemently denied that it would ever happen to you. I would have never thought in a bazillion years that I would ever forget to pick up one of my kids. But...it happened...


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

Do I think people should break windows to save children and pets? If it's warranted, of course.

But, it would never happen to me because like Jo Ellen, I have kept my life under control. I think it's sad that people drive themselves beyond their mental ability to keep up. If a parent is SO BUSY that they forget a child or pet, if it becomes so serious that the only safety net the child or pet has is an accidental passerby, then that parent needs to seriously evaluate the choices they have made in life. NOTHING should take precident over a child or pet.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

momtoMax said:


> I'm sorry but I thought you asked what people might think and that's what I would be thinking. If you think that every stranger you meet is going to pschyically..is that even a word? pick up on how awesome of a dog owner you are, then you are mistaken. I'm only one person and I admit I'm not the most patient person when it comes to strangers so no, that's not going to change my thought process. From experience, I know that owners like you are not the rule or even 30% of the population of people I know that have dogs.


I asked you if you would let me cut ahead of you. I understand not everyone knows what kind of dog owner I am, and I do worry about what people think in situations like this. All I meant by my post (very defensive, sorry), was that you look upon situations where you're making judgment like this as maybe something you might not have enough information to make that judgment.

It scares me that someone who might not be assessing the situation correctly, will take the wrong action. I'm more concerned about that than I am someone stealing my car, or stealing Daisy or Daisy dying of heatstroke.

Every situation is not the same and not every dog owner with their dog in their car is the same kind of owner.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

It can happen to anyone.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

kwhit said:


> My point wasn't to compare the two...it was to illustrate that you can do things that you would have previously vehemently denied that it would ever happen to you. I would have never thought in a bazillion years that I would ever forget to pick up one of my kids. But...it happened...


Forgetting to pick up kids happens all the time. Out of sight. Out of mind. 

If you have a child or dog in your car with you, I'm going to assume they aren't out of sight or out of your mind. I drive more carefully even when I'm driving my ten year old niece in the car. I imagine I would be neurotic driving around with my own flesh and blood baby!

And if people aren't aware of their children in the backseat, or their dogs... then they need to fix that mindset.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

goldensrbest said:


> It can happen to anyone.


No, it can't. And people here are using that as an argument to never leave your dog in the car alone. That argument can work for some people. It doesn't apply to me. 

Crap, now I'm all flustered. Going to go mow my weeds :


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Penny's Mom said:


> Do I think people should break windows to save children and pets? If it's warranted, of course.
> 
> But, it would never happen to me because like Jo Ellen, I have kept my life under control. I think it's sad that people drive themselves beyond their mental ability to keep up. If a parent is SO BUSY that they forget a child or pet, if it becomes so serious that the only safety net the child or pet has is an accidental passerby, then that parent needs to seriously evaluate the choices they have made in life. NOTHING should take precident over a child or pet.


I honestly don't even know how to respond to your post. It's so _rigid_ and cold. We're humans, not robots. I really hope nothing like what's been discussed in this thread ever happens to you because, by the tone of your words, you would never be able to forgive yourself. And that would be tragic.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

This thread really needs to be closed.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

Yes, it does.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

It does not need to be closed. Why anytime we start disagreeing with one another does a thread need to be closed? We are all perfectly capable of being civil. I see nothing wrong with this discussion as it is. It's been very valuable to me, and I'm certain that's the same for others.

But I will agree ... if anything bad happened to Daisy because of something I did, especially if I caused her death, I would never be able to forgive myself.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Jo Ellen said:


> It does not need to be closed. Why anytime we start disagreeing with one another does a thread need to be closed? We are all perfectly capable of being civil. I see nothing wrong with this discussion as it is. It's been very valuable to me, and I'm certain that's the same for others.
> 
> But I will agree ... if anything bad happened to Daisy because of something I did, especially if I caused her death, I would never be able to forgive myself.


Fine, I'll just report the post I see as rude to the MODS.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

That's fine, I think we all have the freedom to do that. But I think we need to be careful with that too ... we all offend one another from time to time. But I think the longtime regulars here, like yourself and me, are big enough and kind enough to look at the bigger picture, and to treat each other with respect even when we don't agree.

If I've been rude, I apologize.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I think there have been more than one rude post in this thread from people on both sides. I haven't reported anyone to mods, but I would assume the mods are looking over the thread and letting some things pass or not? 

I thought things had calmed down, but if the OP wishes the thread to be shut down. I would guess it needs to be.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Dallas Gold said:


> Fine, I'll just report the post I see as rude to the MODS.


Let's talk about this. This post confuses me. You say one post, and you say it like it's one of mine. And then MODS in all caps, like how threatening is that  

I'm not afraid of anything I've posted in this thread or of any action that could be taken against me for anything I've said here. I'm curious as to what post of mine you might be referring to


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Jo Ellen said:


> Let's talk about this. This post confuses me. You say one post, and you say it like it's one of mine. And then MODS in all caps, like how threatening is that
> 
> I'm not afraid of anything I've posted in this thread or of any action that could be taken against me for anything I've said here. I'm curious as to what post of mine you might be referring to


Quit worrying--it's not your post.


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## momtoMax (Apr 21, 2009)

I think the comment that labelled some as zealots was unwarrantted because as a general rule, I respect everyone who is commenting on this thread as people and as responsible pet owners. Otherwise, I'm all for honest discussion because not everything we need to hear or has to be said is going to make us feel warm and fluffy inside. I know for sure that everyone who is taking part in this thread for sure will be thinking about the subject at hand and being that we lose people as well as dogs to heatstrokes in cars it for sure can't hurt as a summertime discussion.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

But let's not trash the whole discussion because of one or two words, or because of one or two "rude" posts. It's a good discussion


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## Mms (Dec 13, 2009)

I don't think it needs to be closed. It's an issue that needs to be discussed. Sure there have been a few borderlining comments, but not enough to be an issue in my opinion. Let's just be careful not to hurt any feelings.


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## Mirinde (Jun 8, 2011)

I think when people become attached/invested to friends they meet via an internet forum, it can become easy to forget that it is just that-- an internet forum. We are a vast array of people from different areas, with different backgrounds, and different lifestyles who are all going to have varying opinions. I personally haven't see very many posts in here that I would consider rude or hurtful, it's just become a discussion, and discussions are what internet forums are for =) Just because disagreements happen and the intensity level increases doesn't mean it's automatically cause for closing the discussion. I would hope that as adults, we would all be capable of stepping away from our computers and taking a breather if we feel we're about to respond inappropriately to something.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

I think name calling is pushing it too far, personally. That's what should have this thread closed. I think in general the posts here have been civil, until a poster decided to start name calling. That's when it went downhill. The whole tone changed after that post.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Who was name calling?

For that matter, who was making personal attacks on this thread? Those are the types of comments that I take offense to. If somebody comes on threads and openly attacks other members. Or uses language that is intended to "score points" on somebody they have a disagreement with. 

I've seen much worse on other threads, but there were a couple comments here that I felt were too much. On both sides.


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## Mirinde (Jun 8, 2011)

Which name calling are you referring to? If you're referring to the term "zealots", I can see why you're offended but I interpreted that as the poster not being able to find a better term to use for the context of her post rather than intentionally trying to be offensive.


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

I am the one who used the word 'zealot'. I stand by the use of the word after looking up the definition to make sure I wasn't using the wrong one.

Calling the police because someone parks their car and 'appears' to be putting the dog's life in danger fits the description.

Passing judgment on who should be allowed to have dogs or children fits the description.

I was called cold and inhuman. That's some pretty good rudeness. I can see why a person would say that. They fail to realize that taking responsibility for the awesome job of being a parent of a child or dog is NOT cold or inhuman. I take care of my own, I don't depend on strangers to save my butt so I am free to lose my mind. I care for my children and animals myself. It comes before all else: job, cell phone, texting. I'm far from cold or inhuman but I do expect that I will be adult and responsible for those in my care. They depend on ME. 

It isn't luck that it hasn't happened to me or to Jo Ellen. It will never happen!

I am sorry that my strident view point is at odds with others. I hope they are sorry that their viewpoint is at odds with mine. I am a zealot on this point of view.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

Pennys mom, never thought of myself being a zealot, but i think i did what i should had done, when i called the police.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Dogs can shift cars out of gear. Cars can be carjacked. Cars left running can stall.

My newest addition to send a message to others.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

^ That looks like my dog's walking tolerance thermometer - except we tend to walk as long as it's above 0.


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

Cute! And I don't disagree!



Kimm said:


> Dogs can shift cars out of gear. Cars can be carjacked. Cars left running can stall.
> 
> My newest addition to send a message to others.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

What no apology, pennys mom, i am not radical, not at war, only doing what i feel best interest in the dog.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Penny's Mom said:


> I am sorry that my strident view point is at odds with others.


You should never be sorry that your viewpoint is different or at odds with others...that's life and that's what makes this world, and those in it, interesting. 

Now concerning what I percieve to be, (JMO), a condescending attitude in your delivery...now _that_, I _am_ at odds with. The implications that it expresses toward those of us that have made _very human mistakes_ are totally off base. 

Again...JMO


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Kimm said:


> Dogs can shift cars out of gear. Cars can be carjacked. Cars left running can stall.
> 
> My newest addition to send a message to others.


Kimm, where were you and how hot out was it that your car themometer was reading 120????? Inquiring minds want to know.....


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Jo Ellen said:


> I agree with you completely, it is a valid point, I understand it happens and it's a tragic, tragic thing, whether it's a child or a pet.
> 
> What I am arguing with, vehemently, is that it can happen to me. I am taking issue with people who think that because it can happen to someone that it can happen to anyone. That's not true. Maybe if I had a different life with children going a mile a minute everyday ... but not with my life the way it is now. My life is too simple, my mind is not over-taxed with so many things to get done that I could ever forget that Daisy is in my car, much less on a hot day. I can never, have never, will never forget about Daisy. Period, that simple.


 
You know that, people who know you are aware of that. The point is people who don't know you, have never met you, have no way of knowing that and can only judge a situation by what they see at the time.

I agree there are people, like you, that it would never happen to because there are people who are conscientious and careful. The people who would leave a dog in the car and go shopping are not conscientious or careful, and they are the ones who put their dogs, or children's lives at risk.


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

Maybe what you perceive in my delivery is that in my life there has never been forgiveness or acceptance of mistakes, human or otherwise. I have learned that there are no accidents that could not have been avoided. I make sure AT ALL TIMES that I do not make mistakes...at least by the standards that I have to live with. That's why I'm offended by a statement that implies it's just a matter of time before I forget my dog in the car. Not everyone is capable of that.

Living with this knowledge has proved to me how many 'problems' in life are completely avoidable; that other people consider within the margin of error and acceptable.

Anyone who knows me will tell you my biggest problem in life is that I'm too soft, too kind-hearted and that people walk all over me because of that. Not cold or inhuman.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Kwhit, I can understand you forgetting to pick up one of your children. Are you saying that because something like that happened, that you could also forget that you have your child or your pet in your car when it is dreadfully hot outside? I don't think so.

I don't think a single one of us here would forget something like that. Seriously, who here has parked there car in the heat of summer with their children or pets inside and have forgotten about them?

Anyone?


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Penny's Mom said:


> I am the one who used the word 'zealot'. I stand by the use of the word after looking up the definition to make sure I wasn't using the wrong one.
> 
> Calling the police because someone parks their car and 'appears' to be putting the dog's life in danger fits the description.
> 
> ...


The word zealot is generally used in a negative conotation. 

Do you think it was wrong to try and help the dog? What other information was available to make a judgement on that situation other than what she could see, the dog left in the car?

We make judgements based on the information available, there's no other way to do it.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Just sharing this... to follow up... 

There was a case I read about last year that we were all apallled about. 

No Charges Filed Against Parents Who Left Baby In Car Overnight - News Story - KTVU San Francisco

While the parents were not found guilty of abuse or neglect, though their child was smothered in the car... they were apparently found to be too inept to care for their other child. And I truly believe this is the case... and usually is when this happens.



> They continue to be required to undergo extensive counseling and parent training.
> 
> 
> The 2-year-old remains in protective custody and has been appointed an attorney to ensure her ongoing safety and proper care, Cope said.
> ...


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

You are right about making judgment based on information available. In this case, not much information was available. In fact, the woman wasn't even out of the car before she was threatened. I think that is unreasonable and unfair.

Better for the op to stay there and keep an eye on the situation. If the owner doesn't come back in a reasonable time AND the dog is showing signs of distress (more than mild panting) then it's time to find the owner and report the dog's distress. If the owner does nothing and the dog continues to be in distress and getting worse, then someone needs to intervene.

So, yes, I think in this case the op was over zealous in her position as protector of the dog. To threaten a stranger and then jump to the last resort immediately says to me she's on a mission to punish people who don't have the same opinions as she does.

I wonder if people would have felt justified in having the police confiscate the dog. It seems that that is what is wanted when making the statement "She shouldn't be allowed to own a dog".


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

I now want to ask the OP what kind of store she was at where this happened. Was it a large grocery store, a shopping center like Walmart, or was it a convenience store?

I think I might think if someone called the police on me for leaving Daisy in the car at a convenience store, I might think that person was being overzealous.


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

I think it's also important to point out that when a dog has traveled in an a/c car, they are very cool. It's the same for us when we go from a/c into the heat. It takes a while before we start to sweat. And even when we do start sweating, we aren't in danger. Mild panting is the same as mild sweating for people. To suggest that any panting is a sign of over heating is to over react. People sweat, dogs pant.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Penny's Mom said:


> Better for the op to stay there and keep an eye on the situation. If the owner doesn't come back in a reasonable time AND the dog is showing signs of distress (more than mild panting) then it's time to find the owner and report the dog's distress.


Situations can turn very bad very fast...waiting for the dog to be "showing signs of distress" and _then_ reporting it can lose precious moments. Just like when I called the police over the Chihuahua...the dog, by the time they got him out, was almost dead. If we had waited any longer, it wouldn't have necessary to break in the car. I feel the OP did the right thing for how _they_ felt the situation presented itself. None of us were there, so how can we judge?


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Jo Ellen said:


> Kwhit, I can understand you forgetting to pick up one of your children. Are you saying that because something like that happened, that you could also forget that you have your child or your pet in your car when it is dreadfully hot outside?


No...what I'm saying is that I would never put myself on such a high pedestal to believe that I would never make certain mistakes. Of course I would love to think that I'm infallible, but I'm conscience enough in my own mind to realize that having imperfections is what makes us human and not machines.

Do I think I could ever leave a child or animal in a hot car and forget? Of course not...but I'll bet you anything that those that _have_ done it would have made that exact statement themselves.


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

You are right. We weren't there. We can't judge that she was right either. BUT, she says she called the police immediately. Doesn't that strike you as a little too much like Big Brother watching every move you make? I can tell you, we have left Penny home on several occasions just because I was afraid someone like that would disapprove of what we were doing with her and see to it that she was taken from us. There are stories all the time about children being taken from their parents because of something someone 'thought' they saw. It's not a stretch to have a pet taken away. Imagine the trauma of THAT for the poor dog, being taken to the pound until it's straightened out. 

I shouldn't have to be afraid to take my dog with me because someone might see us and have her taken away. That's over-stepping the boundaries.


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

I don't consider myself on a pedestal because there are some things I simply will never do. I will never loose my temper enough to strike a dog. I will never forget my dog is in the car. Somethings are safe to say for sure. It isn't bragging or being on a pedestal, it's just a simple fact. 

And whether people would have thought they could forget their child when asked about it? They might have said "Maybe. I get terribly distracted. I end up at home with knowing how I got there. I get on the phone to work as soon as I get in the car. I don't check the car when I get out. It's possible".


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

kwhit said:


> No...what I'm saying is that I would never put myself on such a high pedestal to believe that I would never make certain mistakes. Of course I would love to think that I'm infallible, but I'm conscience enough in my own mind to realize that having imperfections is what makes us human and not machines.
> 
> Do I think I could ever leave a child or animal in a hot car and forget? Of course not...but I'll bet you anything that those that _have_ done it would have made that exact statement themselves.


But I imagine the reason why it didn't happen with your children is because you didn't ever pack your kids in the car and forget about them. Even with your posts about your dogs, I believe you posted about getting your dog more comfortable in the car and worrying about him. This shows you are aware of what's going on with those creatures under your charge and you are doing what you can to take care of them. 

Please don't put yourself in the same position as those people who would go to bed at night and not bother checking in on the kids because they think somebody else did it. Or whatnot. 

There are levels of checks and balances that responsible owners and parents do to ensure their charges are never in danger. That's being aware of what temperature is too much for their dogs (walking or sitting in the car). And so forth. 

What I object to is anyone lumping all situations in the same category - parents or dog owners. That's safe situations (leaving the dog in the car for a couple minutes) being thrown in with dangerous situations (leaving the dog in the car for undetermined amount of time). 

I think I would hate for some nut going all vigilante and smashing into my car even though I've only left my dog for two minutes and was on my way out of the store. That's why people need to think a situation through, review it, check the welfare of the animal, and stand by and wait for a determined amount of time before calling police. 

Breaking windows should only happen when the dog is showing signs of heat stress. Jenn mentioned a dog at a fireworks thing who was obviously in stress because of mostly closed windows and going parched. That would be a case where I'd break into the car to get the dog out.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

Wow, not that i owe you a reason, but IT WAS THE HOTEST DAY ,OF THE YEAR, A GROCERY STORE, FAIL TO SEE THAT MATTERS, I THINK YOU THAT THINK, YOU CAN LEAVE A DOG IN A CAR, WHILE YOU ARE GONE, ARE WRONG, I WOULD DO THE SAME THING AGAIN, TO PROTECT THAT DOG. I TOLD HER, I WOULD CALL THE POLICE, IF SHE LEFT THE DOG IN THE CAR, SHE DID, I DID WHAT WAS RIGHT.


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

How long was it before she came out? You did what was right IN YOUR OPINION. Your mind was made up about what you were going to do as soon as you saw her pull in.




goldensrbest said:


> Wow, not that i owe you a reason, but IT WAS THE HOTEST DAY ,OF THE YEAR, A GROCERY STORE, FAIL TO SEE THAT MATTERS, I THINK YOU THAT THINK, YOU CAN LEAVE A DOG IN A CAR, WHILE YOU ARE GONE, ARE WRONG, I WOULD DO THE SAME THING AGAIN, TO PROTECT THAT DOG. I TOLD HER, I WOULD CALL THE POLICE, IF SHE LEFT THE DOG IN THE CAR, SHE DID, I DID WHAT WAS RIGHT.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

What?, you are jumping to what you think, she had a choice, not to go in, or go in, it is the dog, that was at risk here, last thing i wanted to see that day, when i was, loading things into my car, but she pulled in beside me, you seem to be a person, that thinks nothing bad can happen, if your in control, life is not like that.


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

How long before she actually came back to the car?


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## Bellapuppy (Jun 18, 2011)

I've used an oven temp/meat reader in our car in AZ before, and it gets to 185 degrees F. The outside temp is around 110-125 F in the summer. So, I don't take Bella ANYWHERE in the car during the day unless it's night time. If during the day, we only go if it's absolutely necessary. I put the AC on for a bit and then take her. Typically, you can boil an egg or some type of food within 45-50 minutes with a closed car in AZ. You can't leave your kids or your pet in the car "for just a minute." It's literally torture. Your blood and body fluids boil.


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## vcm5 (Apr 20, 2011)

I honestly think this discussion is great, especially for people like me who aren't quite as experienced in these issues. I get to hear every side of the story and make a much more informed decision. I'm sure there are new dog owners other there that will learn a lot from this conversation, and it could even wind up saving a life. So it is very important that these debates happen. It is totally fine, almost preferable that we all have different opinions. But let us all realize that this is all for the good of the dogs and that we should not judge each other for decisions that have already been made, especially since we were not there and we did not see the situation exactly.

Penny's Mom - I completely agree that one needs to use discretion when making decisions about this kind of thing and you can not automatically fly off the seat of your pants and break into a car. But it seems a little unfair of you to say that her "mind was made up about what you were going to do as soon as she pulled in." You were not there, you don't know how hot it was, you didn't see the dog in question and whether or not it showed signs of heat distress, and you didn't see how long it was left alone. I'm not saying what the OP did was right or wrong, but lets just not jump to conclusions. She may have made a premature decision, or she may have saved a dogs life. But either way I think that her intentions were good ones and that we should not be hasty to judge her since none of us were there. But I don't mean to be rude at all, I think that you have made valuable input to the debate and certainly given me things to think about.


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

You are absolutely right in your decision, given the conditions. What are your lows @ night? 80-90*? According to some here, you would be wrong to take her at night and leave her in the car for even a minute or two, with windows opened.



Bellapuppy said:


> I've used an oven temp/meat reader in our car in AZ before, and it gets to 185 degrees F. The outside temp is around 110-125 F in the summer. So, I don't take Bella ANYWHERE in the car during the day unless it's night time. If during the day, we only go if it's absolutely necessary. I put the AC on for a bit and then take her. Typically, you can boil an egg or some type of food within 45-50 minutes with a closed car in AZ. You can't leave your kids or your pet in the car "for just a minute." It's literally torture. Your blood and body fluids boil.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

To the OP...You did what you thought was right and best for the dog. I would never fault someone for looking out for the welfare of anyone or any pet. Once the police are called, let them see what is up. Error on the side of caution. If nothing is wrong then the person goes on their way. When in doubt, SHOUT!

There's a new campaign making its way across the UK, the US, and wherever FB fans are reading. It's called, "Don't Cook Your Dog." I can't wait to get my stickers.

For anyone that leaves their pets in the car with the AC going, be aware. I watched a dog in a parking lot, was wondering where the owner was and I was waiting, step on the automatic window button. The dog didn't jump out, but could have. The dog didn't step on the button again and catch it's head in the window, but very well could have. The guy came out, looked at me and said, "How did she do that?" I would have broken that car window in a heartbeat.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

I think there can be a huge difference between pulling into a convenience store for a quick stop and parking in a parking lot at a larger grocery store where obviously it's going to take more than a few minutes.

And the fact that Daisy has never experienced any level of heat-induced sickness supports my opinion that sometimes it is okay to leave a dog in a car on a hot day -- _for a few minutes, no longer_. And I don't mean 5 minutes or 10 minutes, I mean 1 minute dry, 2 minutes max when wet. That's after the A/C has been running and the car is cool.

I'm so glad I don't live in Arizona!


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## Bellapuppy (Jun 18, 2011)

I meant we only take the dog for a ride in the car at night. I would never leave the dog in the car at all. Our norms for night temps are 90-100 degrees F. 80 would be lovely!

I've never left a dog in the car. Not even for a second.


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

vcm5, you are right in that we weren't there. I have quoted the op below, which kind of puts us 'there'. The woman was still in the car when op 'stuck my head in the window' and confronted her.  That tells me she wasn't interested in a conversation or being reasonable. She said, in effect, do it my way or else! The woman parked in the shade, rolled windows down. If it were me, I would have asked if she was going to be very long in the store, that I'd be happy to keep an eye on her dog for her because it's so hot. The woman might have said, that would be great. I'll only be a couple of minutes. Might have told op to mind her own freakin' business too. But I think threatening to call the police when the woman was still in the car is unreasonable.



goldensrbest said:


> Went to store, coming out lady pulled beside me, had a dog, it is 100 here today, she parked in the shade, rolled her windows half way down, i stuck my head through the window, i said your not going to leave that dog in the car, are you? The smart ass, said yes i am, i told her i would call the police, i pulled out , waited, watched her, she got on her phone, i acted as if i was leaving, sure enough she went in, i called.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> I'm so glad I don't live in Arizona!


I had the same thought.  

With the cold you can put more layers on to stay warm. With heat like that, what... you could strip naked but die even faster.


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## Abbydabbydo (Jan 31, 2007)

Hey..common sense here, would you like to be in that car for ten minutes at 100 degrees? I think it is funny, my dogs don't even go to the door when they hear the keys at this temp. Not happening, they know it. Are we really dumber than our dogs?


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

I apologize if I sounded critical, it's not what I meant. I understand why you wouldn't take the dog in the car unless it was necessary. I would think you have to consider what you'd do if the car broke down or there was an accident, even a minor fender bender. That kind of heat can be dangerous in a hurry. P.S. I barely make it through a Michigan summer, I would simply perish out there! :wavey:



Bellapuppy said:


> I meant we only take the dog for a ride in the car at night. I would never leave the dog in the car at all. Our norms for night temps are 90-100 degrees F. 80 would be lovely!
> 
> I've never left a dog in the car. Not even for a second.


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## vcm5 (Apr 20, 2011)

Penny's Mom - Fair enough! I just mainly meant that lets not dwell on what has happened and judge each other, but rather have a debate that will give people all the necessary information for the next time they have to make a decision like this. We can change the future, but not the past! By the way, your dog is adorable!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Abbydabbydo said:


> Hey..common sense here, would you like to be in that car for ten minutes at 100 degrees? I think it is funny, my dogs don't even go to the door when they hear the keys at this temp. Not happening, they know it. Are we really dumber than our dogs?


Forget the dogs. I'm not driving in temps like that - period. As my coworkers said this past week - total death breath. 

Where I entered this conversation is temps under 90 degrees (meaning 89 and below) are still doable as long as the windows are open and I'm running in and out. I was trying to say that shouldn't be lumped in with 100 degree temps.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

She was outside the car, i had set there a few minutes to see what she was going to do, she got out , grabed somthing in back seat, that is when i stuck my head through the half way down window, i feel sorry, you would not had acted to protect that dog, it could not help itself.


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

Abby, I hear ya. And yes, I have sat in the car with Penny in 100 degree heat for 10 minutes. We stopped at the store on the way home from the barn and I sat with her so no one would call the police on us AND because I didn't want take the risk. I was called out on that because I wasn't wearing a fur coat. :uhoh: It wasn't any hotter in the car than it was at the barn where Penny waited in the shade for 30 minutes. Other times I didn't take her to the barn because it just wasn't necessary for her to go out in the heat. I was doing a quick check on the horse's well-being and planned to be right back.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Penny's Mom, I wouldn't mind in the least if someone expressed concern for my dog like that. I would be very happy to let you keep an eye on Daisy. But I am a little bit paranoid ... I would be thinking a small thought in the back of my mind that maybe you wanted to steal her. LOL, that's sad, isn't it?  LOL, I'd have to keep an eye on you keeping an eye on my dog 

This was before we had this recent heat wave but once I was dropping by my Dr's office to pick up a prescription. I had called ahead, told them I would have my dog in the car, and asked if it would be ready. It was, I only had to sign for it. I made sure ahead of time that Daisy wouldn't be in the car for long, it was maybe an 80 degree day. But there was a security guard there, I asked him to keep an eye on my dog for me. He said he would, nice gentleman.

Common sense is the best, yes.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Penny's Mom said:


> You are right. We weren't there. We can't judge that she was right either. BUT, she says she called the police immediately. Doesn't that strike you as a little too much like Big Brother watching every move you make? I can tell you, we have left Penny home on several occasions just because I was afraid someone like that would disapprove of what we were doing with her and see to it that she was taken from us. There are stories all the time about children being taken from their parents because of something someone 'thought' they saw. It's not a stretch to have a pet taken away. Imagine the trauma of THAT for the poor dog, being taken to the pound until it's straightened out.
> 
> I shouldn't have to be afraid to take my dog with me because someone might see us and have her taken away. That's over-stepping the boundaries.



When it's over 100 degrees, not counting the heat index and someone leaves a dog in a car to go shopping, it's certainly not over-stepping any boundaries to call the police. I think people have forgotten what the OP was, it was a dog left in a car on an extremely hot day, not a dog being left in a car on a mild day. The trauma of going to the pound in a situation where the temperature was over 100 degrees is nothing compared to the trauma of dying of heat stroke. Which can happen very quickly in those temperature, AC in the car will not negate the issue if a dog is left in a car in 100+ weather.


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

But you misjudge me: I WOULD HAVE acted to protect the dog. I would not have done it the way you did. I would stayed there and kept an eye on the dog. With windows half down, it would have been easy to assist the dog if it was needed. I'm not saying we shouldn't be interested in the safety of pets, I'm just saying that resorting to the police was over-reacting. 

How long was she in the store?



goldensrbest said:


> She was outside the car, i had set there a few minutes to see what she was going to do, she got out , grabed somthing in back seat, that is when i stuck my head through the half way down window, i feel sorry, you would not had acted to protect that dog, it could not help itself.


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## Bellapuppy (Jun 18, 2011)

Penny's Mom said:


> I apologize if I sounded critical, it's not what I meant. I understand why you wouldn't take the dog in the car unless it was necessary. I would think you have to consider what you'd do if the car broke down or there was an accident, even a minor fender bender. That kind of heat can be dangerous in a hurry. P.S. I barely make it through a Michigan summer, I would simply perish out there! :wavey:


I think there are situations that are going to happen, a car breaking down being one of them that could change what happens. But, if I had a choice to leave the dog in the car or take her with me, she'd go with me. I take a cell with me wherever I go and plenty of water. I've only visited a few states that are rural. In the area I live, it's the city. We don't have much rural land between places of travel. If my vehicle broke down, I'd most likely be able to get out of my car and stay in an air conditioned building until I had someone to come and get me. Cops will actually take you where you need to go because of the heat (including your pets). To me, there is almost always a choice you can make, and I didn't think you were being harsh at all. It's tough to explain just how hot it is out here, and how it's not even a choice to leave a pet or kid in the car no matter what. We plan to move away from AZ as soon as possible because of the heat.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

I am sure she would want me, sitting in her car, air running, cause that would had been the only safe thing, for dog, staying in the car, she did not know me, this is last post, from me, you live in a un real world.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Penny's Mom said:


> Abby, I hear ya. And yes, I have sat in the car with Penny in 100 degree heat for 10 minutes. We stopped at the store on the way home from the barn and I sat with her so no one would call the police on us AND because I didn't want take the risk. I was called out on that because I wasn't wearing a fur coat. :uhoh: It wasn't any hotter in the car than it was at the barn where Penny waited in the shade for 30 minutes. Other times I didn't take her to the barn because it just wasn't necessary for her to go out in the heat. I was doing a quick check on the horse's well-being and planned to be right back.


You were not called out because you weren't wearing a fur coat, it was pointed out, however, that you aren't wearing a fur coat sitting there in that heat. I thought I would make that clear since I was the one who supposedly "called you out". Of course, I guess you could have been sitting there in a fur coat, who knows?


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

I'm a country mouse. I always have a leash with me because if I break down, I'm walking! I hardly ever remember to take my phone with me.:doh:

Sometimes, we forget that we are in such diverse situations. Certainly being in the city gives you more access to help. I think being in the country reduces my risk of accident...many times I never see another car to and from the barn...most of my life centers around the barn and my horses.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Bellapuppy said:


> We plan to move away from AZ as soon as possible because of the heat.


The Pacific Northwest is very moderate, temperature wise. Rains a lot but very beautiful


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

I'll change 'called out' to pointed out because that's closer to what I meant. And no...no fur coat for me. I think fur is much better left on the animal! But I get your point.



fostermom said:


> You were not called out because you weren't wearing a fur coat, it was pointed out, however, that you aren't wearing a fur coat sitting there in that heat. I thought I would make that clear since I was the one who supposedly "called you out". Of course, I guess you could have been sitting there in a fur coat, who knows?


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Penny's Mom said:


> Sometimes, we forget that we are in such diverse situations. Certainly being in the city gives you more access to help. I think being in the country reduces my risk of accident...many times I never see another car to and from the barn...most of my life centers around the barn and my horses.


Six of one and half a dozen of another. I live in a very rural area, I don't fear many things that I would if I lived in a city. I can literally count on being able to go into my local grocery store without having to wait in line -- except on major holidays. I totally love it that most of my life is found within 11 miles from home ... 2 minutes to work, 20 minutes to the lake, 5 minutes to the store. Traffic congestion unheard of. 

My car did break down on a country highway years ago. I called a tow truck -- he offered to give me a ride but said Daisy would have to ride on the bed. I walked


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Jo Ellen said:


> I live in a very rural area, I don't fear many things that I would if I lived in a city. I can literally count on being able to go into my local grocery store without having to wait in line -- except on major holidays. I totally love it that most of my life is found within 11 miles from home ... 2 minutes to work, 20 minutes to the lake, 5 minutes to the store. Traffic congestion unheard of.


OMG...that sounds like absolute heaven. The only thing is, I am so spoiled weather wise, I seriously don't know if I could ever live anywhere else.  

But, you never know...


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

Yep, we avoid the store during the 3 NASCAR race weekends. My life is small like yours too. The horses are 5 miles away, the state park lake is 7 miles away, all the services we need: grocery, drug store, post office, bank are within walking or bike riding distance. Oh and I would have walked too. No way is she traveling outside the cabin!



Jo Ellen said:


> Six of one and half a dozen of another. I live in a very rural area, I don't fear many things that I would if I lived in a city. I can literally count on being able to go into my local grocery store without having to wait in line -- except on major holidays. I totally love it that most of my life is found within 11 miles from home ... 2 minutes to work, 20 minutes to the lake, 5 minutes to the store. Traffic congestion unheard of.
> 
> My car did break down on a country highway years ago. I called a tow truck -- he offered to give me a ride but said Daisy would have to ride on the bed. I walked


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## Bellapuppy (Jun 18, 2011)

Jo Ellen said:


> Six of one and half a dozen of another. I live in a very rural area, I don't fear many things that I would if I lived in a city. I can literally count on being able to go into my local grocery store without having to wait in line -- except on major holidays. I totally love it that most of my life is found within 11 miles from home ... 2 minutes to work, 20 minutes to the lake, 5 minutes to the store. Traffic congestion unheard of.
> 
> Yes, traffic is treacherous. If I work a traditional shift, other than my 5am-1:30pm shift, it takes me 2.5 hours to get to work. Since I start out at 3:45am to get to work by 5:00am, it takes me a little over an hour.:doh:


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Bellapuppy said:


> Yes, traffic is treacherous. If I work a traditional shift, other than my 5am-1:30pm shift, it takes me 2.5 hours to get to work. Since I start out at 3:45am to get to work by 5:00am, it takes me a little over an hour.:doh:


I forgot, don't move to Seattle - the traffic there is worse even than you describe. I LOVE my 2 minute commute LOL


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

Wow, that's one heck of a commute. As bad as my Golden friend up near Boston. 

How far is it? I think between the commute and the heat, I'd be looking for exit too!


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

goldensrbest said:


> Wow, not that i owe you a reason, but IT WAS THE HOTEST DAY ,OF THE YEAR, A GROCERY STORE, FAIL TO SEE THAT MATTERS, I THINK YOU THAT THINK, YOU CAN LEAVE A DOG IN A CAR, WHILE YOU ARE GONE, ARE WRONG, I WOULD DO THE SAME THING AGAIN, TO PROTECT THAT DOG. I TOLD HER, I WOULD CALL THE POLICE, IF SHE LEFT THE DOG IN THE CAR, SHE DID, I DID WHAT WAS RIGHT.


You did the right thing.


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## Rob's GRs (Feb 25, 2007)

Post closed by request of OP.


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