# Our nearly 2 year old Golden badly bit our 7 year old



## ephisig764 (Aug 13, 2013)

So last August we rescued our Golden boy, Boston, who will be 2 at the end of February. For the most part he is a good dog. He listens well and is a lover, although he does like to chew on lots of our stuff, fortunately not furniture though. 

Last night my 7 year old son had candy from Valentine's Day on the floor and the dog apparently was trying to get it. Our son, trying to protect his candy, tried to get him away from it. Boston bit his foot in retaliation. At first it didn't appear to be bad, until we looked on the other side of his foot and he had a deep laceration. Our son is a trooper and cried, but got over it quick. We cleaned it up and bandaged it last night. This morning, after changing the gauze several times, decided to take him to urgent care to be safe. The doctor said he would have needed a couple of stitches if the wound was fresh, but at this point they just cleaned it, wrapped it up and put him on antibiotics.

So tomorrow I am expecting a call from the county animal control because the hospital is required to report it. We have a lot of anxiety on what to do from here. We either keep him and put him through behavioral training or we take him to a Golden rescue group as a flagged bite history dog not suitable in a home with children. This is a real difficult situation, I'm just afraid of another instance of this happening, he could be a liability for us and just don't want another child to get hurt worse.

I know in a perfect world, some of you are going to say that we need to keep him always supervised around children and that is just not going to be realistic. We both work and in the summer have a nanny at the house. There are dozens of kids on our street and our house is a revolving door a lot of the time. He really isn't an aggressive dog, but he is more dominant than our last. He can be rough, but for the most part is very people oriented like a typical golden and patient with the kids.

I need some additional advice. I am also going to talk to the trainer tomorrow and see what the animal control has to say to help in my decision.


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## Ruby13 (Dec 28, 2013)

That is a tough situation. Thank goodness your son wasn't injured any worse than he was.

I know it's not realistic to supervise constantly. It just can't be done. 

I can only tell you what I've done in those situations.

I don't have any small children, but I do have a 2 1/2 year old grandson who loves to spend time at Mimi's house!

Before my grandson came along, and back in the day when I thought it was possible that I wouldn't have any grandchildren, we rescued Pedro. He was abused, and has fear aggression towards children and men. When my daughter told me she was pregnant, the worry set in. But, Pedro was scheduled to be euthanized 2 days after I found him in the shelter and rescued him, and I have no doubt that if he weren't with me, he would have to be put down. So, we decided we would keep him away from my grandson completely, as in Pedro goes into our bedroom with everything he needs, and the door is locked. When my grandson goes to bed, Pedro is let loose in the house, and the gate goes up at my grandson's door. Of course, it's much easier considering my grandson doesn't live with us all of the time. We've had Pedro for almost 4 years, and even though he has come a very long way, there are some things about him that we can't change, no matter what. 

But I also encountered a similar problem when my son was born...We had a 6 year old Yorkie who had never been around babies at all. I should have known when I brought him home from the hospital and she started growling at him and pooping under his swing, bed, etc...But, we had her since she was 6 weeks old, and I gave it a good try. As soon as he got old enough to pull up, he pulled up to the couch and held out his bottle and offered it to Chelsea. She bit him on the hand. I called a friend of mine to come and get her immediately. I couldn't risk it being worse the next time, and I did not want my child to be afraid of dogs. (He isn't - he has 4!)

It sounds like your Golden has food aggression. Has he ever shown any aggression before? 

I don't think anyone can tell you what to do, and you probably already know what you are going to do, deep down. No one can tell you that it won't happen again, or that it will. You just have to go with your gut feeling on this one, even if it's doing something you don't want to do.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

Were your son and the dog alone? I am only asking to get a better sense of the situation not to criticize at all. I myself believe Goldens NEED to be reliable around polite kids. If there was a witness, they may be able to give an account of what happened when. Did the dog take some candy and your son tried to take it back or did your son push the dog away from the candy? The first scenario is resource guarding and the second is more dominance aggression.

Also, did you get your dog from a rescue? If you did you may be required to relinquish the dog back to that rescue.

If you keep the dog you are in a tough position even with training or behaviorist help, since no reputable trainer can truly eliminate aggression, so for your own safety (physical and in terms of liability), the dog will need to be confined if other children are around.

Good luck and I feel for you.


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## ephisig764 (Aug 13, 2013)

Ruby13 said:


> That is a tough situation. Thank goodness your son wasn't injured any worse than he was.
> 
> I know it's not realistic to supervise constantly. It just can't be done.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately I really don't know what to do. In the six months I've had him, I have never heard him growl in an aggressive manor. I had friends growing up that had dogs who were aggressive with their food and would growl even if we were a few feet away when eating. I've tested him when he eats by trying to take his food away (probably not smart) but he didn't do anything. I can't say I would trust the kids doing this because I believe I am the pack leader. we were probably spoiled by our last Golden because he was the most gentle dog I've ever been around.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I really feel for you. I hope you can rehome this golden to a home with no kids. 

Maybe you can network with your vet, local trainers etc and find a terrific home? We were able to place our fostered goldens pretty quickly into homes with pet dog trainers. 

I am dog-crazy, but it would be hard for me to keep a dog in the house that had such a high level bite. You can look up the dog bite scale trainers use. It is not so much that he bit, but that he only showed only mediumish bite inhibition. That makes it tough.

An alternative is keeping a muzzle on the dog for now when you are not directly supervizing, and starting him on fluxotine with some help from your vet and a behaviorist. Try out a low protein diet, like Wellness senior.

I am so sorry this happened. It is a heartbreaker all the way around.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Don't think dogs bite in retaliation - unless kicked or hit. <- Just responding to the wording there. 

If you decide to keep the dog, you have to make it very clear to your 7 year old and anyone else who comes in contact with the dog - resource guarding is a serious issue and whether a dog is aggressive or not, if he learns to snap, you probably can't trust that dog ever again. Doesn't mean the dog can't be a family dog and live happily ever after without ever biting another person. Our Sammy had 2 serious bites (one reported, one we "hid" from our parents so it would not be reported) before he was 2 years old. This was with kids (my baby sister was younger than your son when Sammy bit her in the back and leg). 

Serious changes in our handling of that dog (learning what set him off or antagonized him and avoiding all of that) was a huge key. This dog when he was 8+, was an angel with my niece hugging him, using him as a pillow, and loving all over him. He would not have gotten there though if we did not up our own commitment to keeping him from ever feeling like he had to snap at anyone.

If you can't commit to really keeping him safe, then it would be best contacting the rescue where you adopted him from. Then maybe waiting until your son is older and things quiet down before bringing another dog home....


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## ephisig764 (Aug 13, 2013)

Selli-Belle said:


> Were your son and the dog alone? I am only asking to get a better sense of the situation not to criticize at all. I myself believe Goldens NEED to be reliable around polite kids. If there was a witness, they may be able to give an account of what happened when. Did the dog take some candy and your son tried to take it back or did your son push the dog away from the candy? The first scenario is resource guarding and the second is more dominance aggression.
> 
> Also, did you get your dog from a rescue? If you did you may be required to relinquish the dog back to that rescue.
> 
> ...


I tried asking my son very objectively what happened. I asked him if he growled to warn him first and he said yes, but then he changed his story. He was in the family room, I was in our bedroom and my wife was in the kitchen when it happened. My son has a tendency to be on top of the dog in an annoying manor sometimes. We constantly have to tell him to give him some space. Up to this point, we haven't had a reason to believe he was irritating the dog. As a matter of fact, the dog craves so much attention that he seemed to welcome it. But we have tried to teach our children that no matter what, animals can be unpredictable. You just never know if they don't feel good or get startled and snip. 

We rescued him from an owner who said she did not have the time to commit to him with 4 kids and a full schedule. If we decide to let him go, there are a couple of GR rescue groups who I would take him to. Again, really tough decision because I don't consider him to be a mean aggressive dog. All of our neighbors love him and he loves to welcome them home when we are out in the drive way with him.


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## Ruby13 (Dec 28, 2013)

Is it possible your son used his foot to _push _Boston back from the candy? 

Perhaps Boston had been kicked before he came into your care?


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## ephisig764 (Aug 13, 2013)

Ruby13 said:


> Is it possible your son used his foot to _push _Boston back from the candy?
> 
> Perhaps Boston had been kicked before he came into your care?


It is definitely possible since it was his foot that he bit. I really wish I could have seen it happen. My son wasn't really helpful in telling the whole story, but he was sitting in a chair on his lap top with his candy next to the chair. I'm sure he, out of convenience, used his foot to try to separate him from the candy. Again, he is a very mouthy dog, he loves to soft bite in play and my wife does not understand that. I know it is not acceptable behavior, but it is not aggressive behavior either. I've just never seen him act aggressive like other dogs by growling and showing his teeth. He is always wagging his tail happy, but again, he is very dominant. When he is playing with certain dogs, the hair on his back raises. Our other golden never did that. The dog up the street that he plays with does the same thing.


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

(Please don't take any criticism from this - I don't mean any at all, but I know how things sometimes don't sound right on the internet)
Can you sit down with your son and make it clear to him, gently, that he won't be in any trouble at all if he did something (like push Boston with his foot) but that it's really important that you know what happened so you can know what to do from now on? 

I hope you can work this out for both you and Boston's sake.


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## ephisig764 (Aug 13, 2013)

laprincessa said:


> (Please don't take any criticism from this - I don't mean any at all, but I know how things sometimes don't sound right on the internet)
> Can you sit down with your son and make it clear to him, gently, that he won't be in any trouble at all if he did something (like push Boston with his foot) but that it's really important that you know what happened so you can know what to do from now on?
> 
> I hope you can work this out for both you and Boston's sake.


No criticism taken. I will talk to him again and see if he will reenact what happened.


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## Buddy's mom forever (Jun 23, 2011)

I am very sorry for what happened. 

How does your son feel about Boston now, I mean about keeping him or let him go?


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## ephisig764 (Aug 13, 2013)

Buddy's mom forever said:


> I am very sorry for what happened.
> 
> How does your son feel about Boston now, I mean about keeping him or let him go?


He doesn't seem to be mad at him. he is really laid back about the whole thing. If anything, he is joking about it telling his mom watch out that Boston doesn't bite you. Our kids love the dog and still do. It is strange because they didn't really pay any attention to our last Golden and with Boston, they love being around him. The only thing I can think of is that our other Golden was getting older and just avoided them and Boston actually will listen to them.


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## Buddy's mom forever (Jun 23, 2011)

Selli-Belle said:


> ... Did the dog take some candy and your son tried to take it back or did your son push the dog away from the candy? The first scenario is resource guarding and the second is more dominance aggression...


To someone who is learning as I how would you or someone else explain dominance aggression? Thank you.


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## alphadude (Jan 15, 2010)

Sorry to hear about this. Personally, I would *try* to work things out and keep him but *not* to the detriment of your child. It doesn't sound like he is food aggressive if you are able to take his food away without any reaction. I understand it was you and not your son but it seems like the foot might have been involved somehow since that's where he was bitten. Perhaps the dog has been kicked in the past and thought the child was going to kick him. Still no excuse, the dog should not have bitten him.

I own a very dominant male golden who had food aggression issues as well as dominance issues in general. On this forum, the whole Ceasar Milan "be the pack leader model" is not very well thought of, but I am definitely a believer in some aspects of it *especially* if you have a dominant dog. It took a *lot* of training and patience but it is possible, at least it was in my case, to transform them into an awesome, completely trustworthy dog. 

Best of luck to you whatever you choose to do.


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## randomBvR (Dec 26, 2013)

Train your son not to do things the dog doesn't like.... if he can't learn, get rid of your son. Goldens aren't mean dogs, your son must have done something bad


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## thorbreafortuna (Jun 9, 2013)

I wish I had advice, I probably would feel just as confused as you do right now. Wishing that you can find a solution that keeps your son, Boston and all of your loved ones happy and safe, and that you are comfortable with.


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## tine434 (Nov 24, 2013)

randomBvR said:


> Train your son not to do things the dog doesn't like.... if he can't learn, get rid of your son. Goldens aren't mean dogs, your son must have done something bad


I believe this owner has been VERY receptive and wonderful with responses.... This just seems a little uncalled for.... I'm sorry the OP has to read this.

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## KeaColorado (Jan 2, 2013)

I am also really sorry that this happened. 

I grew up in a house with a springer spaniel. I was an only child, and we got her as a puppy from a breeder in town who had an ad in the paper when I was in second grade. Little by little, it started to become clear that she couldn't be trusted in all situations and she liked her space. She never bit anyone, so that situation was a bit different from yours, but she did growl and curl a lip on a few occasions when I tried to hug her or otherwise invade her space as she came of age. My parents were pretty good at managing her and me, and there were never any real problems. We always had to be careful though. If you decide to keep him, you'll need to really work as a family to manage this moving forward. I don't think I could ever fully trust a dog that had bitten someone. It's not an easy decision either way. 

I absolutely agree with Laprincess. You need to know exactly what happened so you know what triggered the bite.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

randomBvR said:


> Train your son not to do things the dog doesn't like.... if he can't learn, get rid of your son. Goldens aren't mean dogs, your son must have done something bad


Believe it or not, there are Goldens who aren't temperamentally sounds. Most times because of breeding, but sometimes because of how they were raised. A lot of people don't believe that because they have only been exposed to the "good" Goldens. I've seen plenty of Goldens who have bitten because of poor temperament.

I think telling the OP to get rid of his son is a totally and completely unnecessary comment and the OP deserves an apology for your saying such a thing. He has been very open to suggestions and has even said that he's not positive his 7 year old son didn't instigate the incident somehow.


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## randomBvR (Dec 26, 2013)

tine434 said:


> I believe this owner has been VERY receptive and wonderful with responses.... This just seems a little uncalled for.... I'm sorry the OP has to read this.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Maybe I should have added that this was complete sarcasm....

All posts prior to mine were very sympathetic and in line with what I would have said, but to save readers from seeing the same thing repeated 20 times in the same post I changed it up. Have a sense of humor. No parent is going to get rid of their kid.

I do believe that the child must have done something aggressive (or perceived as aggressive) to the dog. The OP even said that her kid changed the story on her. But that was already said by someone else.

To the OP, you're in a tough spot, but like someone else already said, you know in your heart what decision to make.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

Buddy's mom forever said:


> To someone who is learning as I how would you or someone else explain dominance aggression? Thank you.


Dominance is the concept that certain individuals have priority access to scarce resources. That is, a dominant animal has the right to things like food, water, sex, resting places, etc. An animal that displays aggression to get those resources is displaying dominance aggression. It is different than resource guarding because it is displaying aggression to get a resource, while resource guarding is guarding a resource the animal already has. In most dominance hierarchies (including wolves and humans most of the time) an animal has a right to keep a resource it already has. 

I should add, that naturally dominant animals rarely use aggression to get what they want. In fact I was reading a web article by Dr. Dodmann where he mentioned a study where SSRIs were used on Vervet Monkeys with a SSRI dominance status went up while aggression went down, while when a serotonin antagonist was used dominance went down and aggression went up.

The behavior modification techniques used in the two situations are different. With resource guarding you need to reassure the dog that giving up the item is a good thing to do, in a sense you need to build up the dog's confidence. For dominance aggression, you need to structure the dog's life to take them down a peg (in a non-confrontational manner).


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

randomBvR said:


> Maybe I should have added that this was complete sarcasm....
> 
> All posts prior to mine were very sympathetic and in line with what I would have said, but to save readers from seeing the same thing repeated 20 times in the same post I changed it up. Have a sense of humor. No parent is going to get rid of their kid.
> 
> ...



Not funny or cute, in my opinion.


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## Ruby13 (Dec 28, 2013)

Hopefully the trainer will have some suggestions for you. He's young, you've had him 1/4 of his life, and this might be something you can work through. A good trainer should know. 

I bet the little guy used his foot to push Boston away - not saying he kicked her at all, but he may have been kicked in the past and associates that with a foot pushing against him. 

All of my gang are rescues except one. Out of the 3 that are rescues, I only know Pedro's past, and it wasn't pretty. He was horribly abused, and I don't think he will ever be trustworthy around small children (or tall tattooed men). You'd never know it unless you were around him for awhile. He doesn't cower or hide, he is just aggressive. He's going to get someone else before they hurt him. Your Boston doesn't sound like that at all. 

Let us know how things work out.


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## Melfice (Aug 4, 2012)

fostermom said:


> Not funny or cute, in my opinion.


I knew he was joking from the beginning. Some people take things way to serious I think. Maybe if he added a  or  everyone here would had known it was a joke.


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## Melfice (Aug 4, 2012)

Ruby13 said:


> Hopefully the trainer will have some suggestions for you. He's young, you've had him 1/4 of his life, and this might be something you can work through. A good trainer should know.
> 
> I bet the little guy used his foot to push Boston away - not saying he kicked her at all, but he may have been kicked in the past and associates that with a foot pushing against him.
> 
> ...


Rusty is very mouthy at times, and has caused cuts (puppy teeth are the worse), and other pain. He is much better now, but sometimes he gets a bit over board.

If his son pushed the dog with his foot, it could had been a tear from going into the dogs mouth (this has happened to me btw, with my hand playing with Rusty), or just thinking it was ok to play mouthy etc. 

The son needs to tell what happened, because it's important to know


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## tine434 (Nov 24, 2013)

I thought of that also. Since you mentioned Boston likes to play mouthy... If your son pulled away or kicked into it.... it could have forced the cut..? Did you hear the dog growl or snap or snarl? If not it could have been something like that....

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## Michele4 (Oct 28, 2012)

Even if your son did kick the dog, Im sure it was more of a shove with the foot than a kick, I know my kids used to shove the dogs away with their feet especially if they were eating and the dogs would surround them like vultures, my dogs were used to the shoves for they never acted aggressively. Getting to the point if you cannot trust your animals 100% around your kids when your back is turned than maybe your dog should be rehomed to a home without kids, young children are so unpredictable, you don't want the bite to be in the face next time. I love my dogs and it would be a very hard decision to make, I'm sorry you have to be put in this situation.


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## tobysmommy (Jan 9, 2011)

Friends, this is just a reminder to keep your posts thoughtful and courteous, particularly when a member is in distress with their Golden and comes here seeking advice. GRF seeks to be a place of kindness, support and generosity of spirit, just like the dogs we all love.
Please take a moment to read the following:
http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...oucement-entire-grf-mod-team.html#post4160714


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

My best friend rescued a yellow Lab. We think he got hit on the head with a baseball cap, because he HATES men wearing baseball caps, and most people cannot touch his head. Without knowing the background, you can't know the triggers until something actually happened.

I have a feeling this is exactly as surmised here - your son may have pushed Boston away with his foot, and that's not a terrible thing. He may also have torn the skin, if your son pulled away, making the bite worse than it might have been. I think you can work through this - you may to be extra vigilant, as my friend is with her lab Zeke. Only you can decide if it's worth it to you and your family. 

I can tell you that when Zeke lets me hug him, and gives me kisses, I'm really really grateful that my friend chose to keep him and work with him. But I'm not a child and she doesn't have children, so there's a whole nuther thing you have to deal with here.

And for the record, not all Goldens like kids, never make that assumption. (That is not directed at the OP)


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

I don't know. I'm going to sound more alarmist than others. I'm a huge lover of Golden Retrievers, and will defend them against all comers. But what you describe is kind of alarming. You say your son had a "deep laceration." You say the dog broke the skin on both sides of the foot. The doctor said at least one laceration was bad enough that it could have used "a couple" of stitches. That shows bite inhibition problems. And it's a fairly serious warning sign.

Without seeing it, and just from what you say, this sounds like what handlers and trainers refer to as a Level 3 bite event, possibly a Level 4. Trying to teach bite inhibition to an adult dog that has left a deep laceration is a very involved process requiring rigorous training and expert knowledge, and even if this is only a Level 3 bite and you are very diligent about training, there is still risk -- to your son, to the neighborhood children, to the nanny, and even to you and your wife. When -- not if -- your dog bites again, it may be worse. Absent rigorous bite inhibition training, dogs that exhibit this level of bite never get better, they only get worse.

I was a volunteer for a GR rescue, and we had just the sweetest boy ever. Yes, he was exuberant and kind of dominant, but he was nothing but a ball of enthusiastic sweetness. Until one day he wasn't. One day he reacted to something, transferred the reaction to his handler, and there was a bite incident. After that, he was sweet as pie again, and it was as if nothing had happened. Maybe someone did something wrong, maybe he was under stress, cuz this was a great dog. Until one day he wasn't again, and someone else was bit. And then he was sweet again, until one day he went after both me and another person taking care of him, and in a flash we were both deeply bitten and slashed, so fast there was nothing we (experienced adults) could do to avoid it. After the first one, maybe he could have been trained. But by the time he attacked me, he was too far gone, and was eventually put down.

Your dog sounds like he shouldn't be around children right now. I guess it depends on your risk tolerance, but frankly as much as I love Goldens, I would get that dog to a home without children, and preferably taken by a dog trainer. Otherwise, an adult dog with this lack of bite inhibition is a ticking time bomb. And as a lawyer I would be remiss if I didn't mention that this could be a serious liability problem for you. I'm sorry if that sounds over dramatic, but when an adult dog exhibits a sudden bite event that leaves a deep penetration, that's clanging warning bells. An adult dog with proper bite inhibition that is annoyed with a child or is resource guarding will snarl and make biting motions but will not make skin contact, or at worst will make contact but not puncture the skin or just barely. When a dog leaves a puncture wound deep enough for even a discussion about stitches, that's a dog that is not safe around children.

Personally, no matter how much I loved that dog, if he were me and I had children and the situation you describe, I'd turn him over to a GR rescue, and one with the resources to place him where children will not be at risk and he can get the kind of training he needs if he is to survive.g

Doubtless some will say I'm over-reacting, but this is my opinion.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

Im sure animal control will want to put a 10 day bite hold on him, with that rescue isnt a option till the hold is up. Not all rescues will take a dog with a history of a biter. I would contact a trainer and have him evaluated.There are several good trainers in your area.


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## Willow52 (Aug 14, 2009)

DanaRuns said:


> I don't know. I'm going to sound more alarmist than others. I'm a huge lover of Golden Retrievers, and will defend them against all comers. But what you describe is kind of alarming. You say your son had a "deep laceration." You say the dog broke the skin on both sides of the foot. The doctor said at least one laceration was bad enough that it could have used "a couple" of stitches. That shows bite inhibition problems. And it's a fairly serious warning sign.
> 
> Without seeing it, and just from what you say, this sounds like what handlers and trainers refer to as a Level 3 bite event, possibly a Level 4. Trying to teach bite inhibition to an adult dog that has left a deep laceration is a very involved process requiring rigorous training and expert knowledge, and even if this is only a Level 3 bite and you are very diligent about training, there is still risk -- to your son, to the neighborhood children, to the nanny, and even to you and your wife. When -- not if -- your dog bites again, it may be worse. Absent rigorous bite inhibition training, dogs that exhibit this level of bite never get better, they only get worse.
> 
> ...


This is my feeling as well. FWIW, years ago my brother-in-law/sister-in-law rescued a St.Bernard, he was a biter, she was bit a couple of times but they felt they could handle it and they had no kids at the time. One day her sister was there with her kids, the dog bit one of the boys in the face. He's an adult now but has a scar running down from his eye along his jaw. The dog was put down after that. Unfortunately, it's one of the reasons I've never adopted an adult dog.


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## Shellbug (Nov 14, 2013)

Just wanted to add that I had to take my daughter to the hospital to her stitches in her FACE from a dog bite and animal control never called or did anything and I know the hospital reported it. Maybe they all don't do something ?


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## Shellbug (Nov 14, 2013)

Willow52 said:


> This is my feeling as well. FWIW, years ago my brother-in-law/sister-in-law rescued a St.Bernard, he was a biter, she was bit a couple of times but they felt they could handle it and they had no kids at the time. One day her sister was there with her kids, the dog bit one of the boys in the face. He's an adult now but has a scar running down from his eye along his jaw. The dog was put down after that. Unfortunately, it's one of the reasons I've never adopted an adult dog.



I just posted above with almost the same story. It was about 6 month ago and my daughter will forever have that scar on her face


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

DanaRuns said:


> I don't know. I'm going to sound more alarmist than others. I'm a huge lover of Golden Retrievers, and will defend them against all comers. But what you describe is kind of alarming. You say your son had a "deep laceration." You say the dog broke the skin on both sides of the foot. The doctor said at least one laceration was bad enough that it could have used "a couple" of stitches. That shows bite inhibition problems. And it's a fairly serious warning sign.
> 
> Without seeing it, and just from what you say, this sounds like what handlers and trainers refer to as a Level 3 bite event, possibly a Level 4. Trying to teach bite inhibition to an adult dog that has left a deep laceration is a very involved process requiring rigorous training and expert knowledge, and even if this is only a Level 3 bite and you are very diligent about training, there is still risk -- to your son, to the neighborhood children, to the nanny, and even to you and your wife. When -- not if -- your dog bites again, it may be worse. Absent rigorous bite inhibition training, dogs that exhibit this level of bite never get better, they only get worse…...
> 
> Doubtless some will say I'm over-reacting, but this is my opinion.


Danaruns, you are not overreacting. THank you for stepping up and sharing your experience. It is not something I enjoy thinking or talking about but I am also going to share mine. I had to give my 2nd Golden Retriever back to his breeder at about 16 months old because he bit a friend's child and exhibited aggressive behavior with kids. My dog was a slightly different case than the OP, but my home life is fairly similar. I have 3 kids who at the time were ages 3 - 13 and we live in a suburban neighborhood with homes close together and kids and neighbors of all ages in and out of our home all day long. Many times I come down from doing laundry on the 2nd floor to find kids in the kitchen getting a drink after playing outside. I never know who will be here. 

My dog was recovering from surgery (he was over a year old) and the vet said it would be understandable that the dog had reacted this way (a friend's 10 year old son went to pet him after I'd reminded the kids that he needed to be left alone - I will never forgive myself for walking out of the kitchen and turning my back) it was enough to draw blood. I knew he had some fear issues occasionally and it wasn't a fluke, this was part of a bigger pattern of him exhibiting aggressive behavior toward strange children (Younger kids as well as teenagers). I had a full work up done and had my dog assessed by a Certified Veterinary Behaviorist. There was a lot to it but basically he told me that my dog would never be able to be trusted with kids. 

I agonized for many weeks and cried so many tears. My husband was very supportive but ultimately I knew that there was no way I could ever be 100% positive that I wouldn't make a mistake with managing my dog. How could I possibly look my friends and neighbors in the eye, assuring them that their children were safe and looked after in my home when I knew that if I slipped up and made a mistake their was a possibility that their child could be bitten. I couldn't live with myself if I knew my dog was a higher than average bite risk and needed to be confined when we had company and have a child be bitten if I made a mistake. I couldn't even imagine how I would handle it if my own child were bitten because I was so sure it wouldn't happen to them. I couldn't imagine the life this would give him for the next 10 - 12 years if I had to confine him every time we had a visitor with kids. 

My beloved boy went back to live with his breeder. He is living in a home with a single man (her ex-husband) and no access to children. She assures me that he is doing well and adjusted. It was one of the most difficult things I've ever done in my life but I have to believe that it may have saved my boy from being euthanized for biting a child. It still hurts to think about him, but it was the right thing to do in my situation. My heart goes out to you, I hope no one ever has to go through this type of decision.


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

I don't think you're being an alarmist at all. I think until the whole story is known, it might be kinda soon to make this call. The dog may well have tried everything he knew to get the child to back off, and no one would expect a child to read the signs, most adults don't have that ability. It's kind of hanging on what the child says happened.

If there was no warning, and the dog lashed out suddenly, then yes, it's cause for alarm. If there were signals, then it's possible that it's manageable.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

ephisig764 said:


> ... He really isn't an aggressive dog, but he is more dominant than our last. ...


I went back and re-read your original post. I thought this was maybe a little more telling than I first noticed. I suspect that someone with a lot of experience in dog behavior might notice a lot more about your dog's actions around the house than you do. Selli-belle gave a really good description of how a truly 'top of the pack' dog behaves. It just reminded me that you shouldn't be seeing dominant type behavior exhibited by your dog toward people in your home. Maybe there has been more going on with him than you realize. I'm not there, I don't know, it just got me thinking.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

laprincessa said:


> ...no one would expect a child to read the signs, most adults don't have that ability. It's kind of hanging on what the child says happened.



I'm afraid that you've hit the nail on the head. I don't think there's any way to really get the entire story from a 7 year old who was entirely focused on the candy anyway. It is hard to get details without leading the child. Even if the child kicked the dog hard, I expect the dog to try to get away, not bite hard enough to require stitches. This is just so sad


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## Melfice (Aug 4, 2012)

nolefan said:


> Danaruns, you are not overreacting. THank you for stepping up and sharing your experience. It is not something I enjoy thinking or talking about but I am also going to share mine. I had to give my 2nd Golden Retriever back to his breeder at about 16 months old because he bit a friend's child and exhibited aggressive behavior with kids. My dog was a slightly different case than the OP, but my home life is fairly similar. I have 3 kids who at the time were ages 3 - 13 and we live in a suburban neighborhood with homes close together and kids and neighbors of all ages in and out of our home all day long. Many times I come down from doing laundry on the 2nd floor to find kids in the kitchen getting a drink after playing outside. I never know who will be here.
> 
> My dog was recovering from surgery (he was over a year old) and the vet said it would be understandable that the dog had reacted this way (a friend's 10 year old son went to pet him after I'd reminded the kids that he needed to be left alone - I will never forgive myself for walking out of the kitchen and turning my back) it was enough to draw blood. I knew he had some fear issues occasionally and it wasn't a fluke, this was part of a bigger pattern of him exhibiting aggressive behavior toward strange children (Younger kids as well as teenagers). I had a full work up done and had my dog assessed by a Certified Veterinary Behaviorist. There was a lot to it but basically he told me that my dog would never be able to be trusted with kids.
> 
> ...


I wonder what makes a dog (more so a golden) have aggressive behavior. Rusty is my third dog, and second golden. Both of my goldens are/were (Ginger has been gone for almost 15 years) great with kids. Rusty sees kids when we go out a lot. But Ginger was always around kids when we had her years ago.

Rusty has never shown any aggressive behavior towards adults or kids. Both my goldens I got as young puppies at 8 weeks old. I wonder if that makes a big difference or not.


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

Early proper socialization makes a difference. Learning bite inhibition with siblings and humans in the very formative weeks before three months old makes a difference. Of course, there are genetic issues, environmental events, medical conditions, etc., that can affect them. But imo the #1 factor is good early socialization.


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## alphadude (Jan 15, 2010)

nolefan said:


> I went back and re-read your original post. I thought this was maybe a little more telling than I first noticed. I suspect that someone with a lot of experience in dog behavior might notice a lot more about your dog's actions around the house than you do. Selli-belle gave a really good description of how a truly 'top of the pack' dog behaves. It just reminded me that you shouldn't be seeing dominant type behavior exhibited by your dog toward people in your home. Maybe there has been more going on with him than you realize. I'm not there, I don't know, it just got me thinking.


I can tell you from personal experience that this statement is correct. I consider Axl to absolutely be an "alpha male". He was never overtly dominant or aggressive just as long as he was getting exactly what he wanted, when he wanted it. As long as that was the case, he had no reason to be. When I closely observed his behavior and posture, I noticed many subtle things that virtually *SCREAMED* dominance. With consistent training and patience, he has matured into a friendly, completely trustworthy companion, who absolutely knows his place in the hierarchy and is contented with it.


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## Melfice (Aug 4, 2012)

That makes a lot of sense to me. From my own exp with dogs. Amber (not a golden), Ginger and Rusty I got as young puppies 8 weeks old, and they were very well socialized. Kerrie Ann my Brittany I got from her breeder at 8 months old. 

She was not socialized and I saw the difference between my dogs. Kerrie was very nervous around new people, and dogs. Kids too, but I kept working with her, and now Kerrie is WAY different of a dog! She likes people a lot more, and allows them to pet her, and she even likes kids too.

But when I first got Kerrie Ann, there was fear but I am very lucky she never showed any aggressive behavior towards people or dogs. It takes a lot more effort socializing dogs after 3 to 4 months old, but it can still be done if they are puppies.

Once Kerrie Ann starts her Rally and K9 Nose Work...I think she will be even more confidence going forward  

I'm looking forward to Kerrie Ann's progress in the coming months


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

I've told this story before, but I'll repeat it. My brother in law had a Golden named Jesse. Jesse is the reason I wanted a Golden. He was gorgeous, and just wonderful - but he hated kids. He came from a reputable breeder and was socialized from day one, but he never ever liked kids. He growled at all of them, warned them away. He was never once allowed to do more than that, my brother in law was very vigilant about that. 

It was just the way Jesse was wired, no abuse, no lack of socialization, just the way he was. And thankfully, he landed in a home without children. 

I really applaud the OP for trying so hard to find a solution to this situation. I hope he finds the best answer for his family and for Boston.


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## Guybrush (Apr 17, 2012)

I am sorry you are in this position. Have a look into the trainers nearby maybe they can find away for you too work with your pup. Is there any way you can get your children to keep things like candy/food away from the dog? Maybe have food only in rooms where the dog can't go. Maybe if the dog starts being pushy the kids could remove themselves/call an adult/remove items out of reach of the dog (food items only on tables).

It sounds like you aren't going to have the time to do intensive bite inhabition training so look around at options for rescues who might take him in and rehome him somewhere without children. This is obviously the last thing you want to do but sometimes you can't stop dogs being dogs and kids being kids.

Just remember bites can be bad and once a dog has bitten someone they can do it again and will not hesitate if the same situation arises. My other half was bitten last year by a stray dog, he ended up in surgery to clean the multiple bite wounds and had part of his index finger was amputated. The same dog also torn another mans wrist open, slashing his tendons.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

I'm not sure that socialization plays that huge of a part in whether a Golden will be aggressive or dislike kids. All three of mine came from shelters between that ages of 4 months and 5 months old. I know for a fact that Jasper had lived in a backyard with his litter until he was 4.5 months old and almost starved to death. He absolutely ADORES kids. We don't have small children, but any time we are any place where there are babies, toddlers, little kids or big kids, he lights up with happiness. So do Danny and Castle. I know for sure Danny lived with a child until they turned him into the shelter, but I don't know if Castle did or not.


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## ephisig764 (Aug 13, 2013)

Thanks for all the responses. I guess I need to clarify the dominant comment. I was so used to our last golden be submissive to other dogs. Boston is dominant towards other dogs, not aggressive. When playing, he tends to be the one who is on top and the other dog sometimes retreats. One of our neighbors has an older Irish Setter who plays well with him because he has a lot of energy and doesn't back down. Same with a large poodle behind us. Our other neighbor has a Boxer that they get along fine, but sometimes Boston is a little too rough with her. Our last Golden would always be the one who would roll over on his back when playing. So he isn't dominant towards humans.

He is like a typical golden in the sense that he wants to be around us all the time. I have never seen him growl or show his teeth around anyone, but he may act different when I'm around. I don't believe he reacted towards my son because he was kicked or pushed. I know for a fact that my son would not kick the dog. He has always been around dogs and has learned to treat them with respect, besides he is a very gentle kid. But yes, he probably did push him away with his foot. It is common for us to have to use some force to push him away sometimes because he can be overbearing with being on top of us. It is not a push in an aggressive manor, but we have to physically move him away from us sometimes if we are on the floor.

I agree there is the risk and liability of this happening again and that is difficult to weigh right now. In my gut, I think this was all a misunderstanding, but that gut feeling will mean nothing if it happens again and it is worse. The next step for me is to have him evaluated by a trainer.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Melfice said:


> I wonder what makes a dog (more so a golden) have aggressive behavior. Rusty is my third dog, and second golden. Both of my goldens are/were (Ginger has been gone for almost 15 years) great with kids. Rusty sees kids when we go out a lot. But Ginger was always around kids when we had her years ago.
> 
> Rusty has never shown any aggressive behavior towards adults or kids. Both my goldens I got as young puppies at 8 weeks old. I wonder if that makes a big difference or not.


Honestly, it is hard to figure out how you take one dog and it is raised with all kinds of strikes against it (less than ideal parents, no early socialization, no training etc.) and it adores people and seems to just be happy-go-lucky. Then you take another and try to do everything right and things don't turn out. 

Just as with my previous Golden, this puppy came home at 8 weeks from a breeder I researched and felt comfortable with. She did not show her dogs in performance but they had been shown in conformation and she did obedience work and Golden rescue. He was from a huge litter, 16 or 17 puppies, so I now wonder how much individual attention he received and how many different people he actually met before he came home. I tried so hard to do everything right (I had learned so much more since the first Golden and he was a great dog) he went everywhere with me, I brought treats for people to give him and we were at the school bus stop everyday, hanging around outside the library for strangers to have him sit for treats, he went to take my daughters to dance class, we started obedience classes at a dog training club from the beginning and he wasn't allowed on the furniture, he was coming along so well that my 3 year old could put him in a down/stay, put food in his bowl and set it down 6 inches from him and he wouldn't move until she released him. 

I adored this dog and he loved me and lots of different people. But he was also fearful of some people (mostly men) and pretty reserved with kids. He didn't care too much about my kids one way or the other. I knew his behavior was not typical Golden behavior and he was exhibiting some ugly behaviors as early as 14 weeks. I thought that obedience training and 'Nothing in Life is Free' would get us through it but we still had some incidents with visiting children where he would stare at them and curl his lips back. I knew we had a problem. 

I discussed it with his breeder and her main suggestions were really stronger obedience and structure. She also mentioned at this point that his mother was a very reserved dog. (I had met her but she was very sweet with me). This was a clue to me that it probably did have some inherited components and that despite my best efforts, he was probably not a good fit for my family. I had him neutered hoping that would make a difference (I think he was about 14 months maybe) and of course it didn't. The final straw was the night I watched him walk up to my 8 year old niece (great, calm kid who is very comfortable with dogs) he approached her, she talked sweet to him and scratched his shoulder and he made a horrible snarl face at her. I knew that was it, I couldn't make excuses anymore about extenuating circumstances or reasons why it was the kids fault he reacted. 

As I said, we saw a Certified Veterinary Behaviorist out of NC State University and he was wonderful. He said that pretty much every owner who came in wanted to know what they had done wrong, but it isn't the people, it's the dog. He said he is seeing more and more cases that start with very young puppies and that sometimes they will grow out of it but just as often they do not. I don't know if that's because their owners do better with training or are more consistent or what, but in my case with Duncan he said that he should not ever be around kids, it was always going to be a risk no matter what I did. I was very fortunate that his breeder was kind and understanding and promised he would always have a home with her. Because his behavior seemed so unpredictable, I was worried that she wouldn't believe me. I told her that she might never see anything amiss with just adults in her home (she is in her late 60's) but that it was really with kids sometimes. 

If Duncan had only gone to a quiet home with just adults, this problem might never have shown itself or really been a problem. I will never know for sure, but I definitely think that some dogs are not a good fit in just any home and it is wise to recognize it and address it before it goes too far to be dialed back.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

OP, I'm sorry you are in this situation with your rescue. I know you want the best for Boston and consulting with a certified veterinary behaviorist is a good option. I am not sure where you are located, but here is a link to the website that has a feature where you can locate one near you: ACVB


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

Kristy, I think you've just described Jesse. He was lucky enough to be in a home with no children, and with owners who realized that he was never going to like kids, and who kept him away from them at all times. He had a great life, he went everywhere with my brother-in-law, but had he been in a home with kids, he wouldn't have fit. 

Boston may be the same, he may just need to not be with children.


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## Buddy's mom forever (Jun 23, 2011)

I might be wrong but from what I've read I did not get impression that Boston doesn't like kids.


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## Michele4 (Oct 28, 2012)

My co worker had a golden boy growing up with her two young girls, sweetest boy in the world in her eyes, one day when visiting relatives her golden who she always takes a long with her bit her niece in the face, food was involved, a piece of candy that was being passed around. Luckily her family was very understanding and let the incident go. This is the one and only time her dog ever bit someone. He lived to only age 5 dying of cancer in her arms. No one ever knew why or how this happened but that it was just a one time event. I think you should have a trainer do an evaluation, it sounds like you really love him and don't want to give up on him. I wish you luck.


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## Hyzerdad (Jan 15, 2014)

People are making a lot of assumptions about the incident. 

The fact we know is a 7 year old was sitting in a chair beside some candy. Somehow, the dog's teeth caused an injury. We don't know if the boy kicked the dog, pushed him away or what. What actually happened makes a lot of difference.

I don't know your dog but is it possible that the dog was going for the candy and the boy put his foot in the way. So, the dog was actually trying to bite the candy and not your son?

There are really too many holes in the story for any of us online to really give you advice unless we fill in the blanks ourselves. Good luck and I hope you find a solution. I agree with whomever said you should try to get him to act it out or somehow get a better understanding of what actually happened.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

I wonder if your son has had food before around the dog,and while he was alone ,with the dog he has given the dog some of his food,when mom and dad were not watching, kids being kids, they sometimes tease a dog, just a thought, I raised two boys.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Just to tilt this in a more positive direction...

This dog when he was young snapped at my one sister's arm over Reynolds wrap or something to that effect. Stitches. 

That same day (my sister wasn't even back from the doctor) he snapped at my baby sister (who was then 4 years old or so) - got her on her leg and her back. I've said before, but all six of us kids banded together over that bite and kept it hidden from our parents. 

This dog became a CGC dog at 2 and got his CD when he was 7. My sister at the time (when he was 7) was very pregnant with my niece and decided that it was "now or never" to get that CD finally with him. So she took him back into classes and then titled him very quickly in 3 shows. 

This dog took 4-5 years to completely mellow and calm down. And not that much time for him and for US to learn how to handle the resource guarding problem and completely prevent any further situations leading to snapping. With a lot of training and monitoring, this dog became absolutely trustworthy. He worshipped my niece. 

Dogs like him are probably a time bomb in the wrong homes. Doesn't mean they can't learn to be nice dogs. It just takes a lot of work and monitoring of not just the dogs, but the kids. 

My youngest two siblings had it drilled in their heads that their hands did not go anywhere near the dogs mouths. If the dogs had something they weren't supposed to, the kids were taught to come running to us older kids or our mom. 

And even my niece was taught to have soft hands and respect around the dogs - especially since we had two seniors by that time. 

Any excitable situations - involving food or kids running around - we were all over that like a wet blanket ensuring that the dogs did not jump all over the kids or go turfing over something. 

Your 7 year old understands now (the hard way) that the dog _will_ bite. That's a huge help as far as getting it through to them to be respectful of the dogs. 

Your job is to make sure that if your kiddo has anything the dog wants - candy, food, etc - you are right there and watching the dog. Your dog has to learn manners around the kiddo, but you have to make sure that dog isn't set up for failure. 

Coming from a big family who learned things the hard way - it can be done without rehoming your family dog. But it does take a lot of work, patience, and love.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

ephisig764 said:


> Thanks for all the responses. I guess I need to clarify the dominant comment. I was so used to our last golden be submissive to other dogs. Boston is dominant towards other dogs, not aggressive. When playing, he tends to be the one who is on top and the other dog sometimes retreats. One of our neighbors has an older Irish Setter who plays well with him because he has a lot of energy and doesn't back down. Same with a large poodle behind us. Our other neighbor has a Boxer that they get along fine, but sometimes Boston is a little too rough with her. Our last Golden would always be the one who would roll over on his back when playing. So he isn't dominant towards humans.
> 
> He is like a typical golden in the sense that he wants to be around us all the time. I have never seen him growl or show his teeth around anyone, but he may act different when I'm around. I don't believe he reacted towards my son because he was kicked or pushed. I know for a fact that my son would not kick the dog. He has always been around dogs and has learned to treat them with respect, besides he is a very gentle kid. But yes, he probably did push him away with his foot. It is common for us to have to use some force to push him away sometimes because he can be overbearing with being on top of us. It is not a push in an aggressive manor, but we have to physically move him away from us sometimes if we are on the floor.
> 
> I agree there is the risk and liability of this happening again and that is difficult to weigh right now. In my gut, I think this was all a misunderstanding, but that gut feeling will mean nothing if it happens again and it is worse. The next step for me is to have him evaluated by a trainer.


Please before making any permanent decisions about Boston, go see a behaviorist, not a trainer. There are two types of behaviorist that are reputable. The first is a veterinary behaviorist, a vet who has specialized in behavior issues. The second is a Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist who are either PhD or Master in animal behavior with extensive real world experience. There is a sticky post in this sub-forum which explains how to find a behaviorist n your area.


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## Cuddysmom (Feb 6, 2014)

Is it possible the dog was going for the candy and got the foot instead? 


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## ephisig764 (Aug 13, 2013)

I have Boston enrolled in a 1 hour evaluation this Saturday to see what is the best way to work with him. Hopefully we can begin a journey towards discipline and obedience. Thanks Maggies Mom for your referral!


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## ephisig764 (Aug 13, 2013)

Cuddysmom said:


> Is it possible the dog was going for the candy and got the foot instead?
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Yes, that is a possible theory. I'm not ruling anything out. It is quite possible this was all an accident, but I don't want to take any chances. This has pushed me to be accountable for Boston's behavior AND to constantly remind my kids to come to us, that they are not resonsible for discipling the dog.


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## ephisig764 (Aug 13, 2013)

goldensrbest said:


> I wonder if your son has had food before around the dog,and while he was alone ,with the dog he has given the dog some of his food,when mom and dad were not watching, kids being kids, they sometimes tease a dog, just a thought, I raised two boys.


I know for a fact this kind of behavior from my kids has occured. They aren't over the top when it comes to teasing, but they have a tendancy to eat at the table a sandwich or something and instead of eating over their plate, they have their food down low by the dog's head. They don't put the food in front of his face and then pull it away, it is more of subtle thing that they don't always realize they are doing because they might be watching tv or something else. They also like to pet him while they are eating because he is begging and not laying down. It is a constant battle to correct them, but my son is the worst.


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## ephisig764 (Aug 13, 2013)

Hyzerdad said:


> People are making a lot of assumptions about the incident.
> 
> The fact we know is a 7 year old was sitting in a chair beside some candy. Somehow, the dog's teeth caused an injury. We don't know if the boy kicked the dog, pushed him away or what. What actually happened makes a lot of difference.
> 
> ...


 
I agree that this may have very well happened. It is really hard to get an accurate story from my son. He is not mad at the dog or scared of him now at all, which may be an indication that it was more of an accident. But like I said, I'm not taking any chances and am getting him evaluated for training.


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

ephisig764 said:


> I know for a fact this kind of behavior from my kids has occured. They aren't over the top when it comes to teasing, but they have a tendancy to eat at the table a sandwich or something and instead of eating over their plate, they have their food down low by the dog's head. They don't put the food in front of his face and then pull it away, it is more of subtle thing that they don't always realize they are doing because they might be watching tv or something else. They also like to pet him while they are eating because he is begging and not laying down. It is a constant battle to correct them, but my son is the worst.


Thank you for this. So many people just don't see that it's anything but the dog's fault. Kids are kids, and they're gonna do stuff like this, no harm meant, and I give you a great deal of credit for acknowledging it, and working on that part of the problem too.

(Wishes more parents were this way).


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## Pixie (Jun 13, 2012)

Read through your post without aying anything, since I had no advice to give.

I would just like to say thank you! For bringing awereness to this situation (Pixie has almost 2 years now and she can resource garding some yummy treatsand we are thinking of having kids soo).

And thank you again for listening to people in here with an open mind and for doing the best for your kid, while keeping the best for you dog in mind!

A big hugg to you


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## tine434 (Nov 24, 2013)

So proud if you. I really am.

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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

ephisig764 said:


> I know for a fact this kind of behavior from my kids has occured. They aren't over the top when it comes to teasing, but they have a tendancy to eat at the table a sandwich or something and instead of eating over their plate, they have their food down low by the dog's head. They don't put the food in front of his face and then pull it away, it is more of subtle thing that they don't always realize they are doing because they might be watching tv or something else. They also like to pet him while they are eating because he is begging and not laying down. It is a constant battle to correct them, but my son is the worst.



This is a good opportunity to teach Boston to go "settle", go lay on a mat or dog bed when anyone is at the table with food. He should not be allowed to be near the table begging. Teaching him to go settle whenever the kids are at the table will eliminate the potential for food stealing, and what may have actually caused the bite - grabbing at the candy and getting the foot by accident. I would start on mat training immediately, if not, then put him behind a baby gate any, and every, time the kids are eating at the table.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

The mat/bed should be a distance away from the table. Increase his margin for success.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

mylissyk said:


> This is a good opportunity to teach Boston to go "settle", go lay on a mat or dog bed when anyone is at the table with food. He should not be allowed to be near the table begging. Teaching him to go settle whenever the kids are at the table will eliminate the potential for food stealing, and what may have actually caused the bite - grabbing at the candy and getting the foot by accident. I would start on mat training immediately, if not, then put him behind a baby gate any, and every, time the kids are eating at the table.


Great Idea!!!!

If you work on that really hard on it, Boston will automatically head for his "place" whenever food comes out! I like it!


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

mylissyk said:


> This is a good opportunity to teach Boston to go "settle", go lay on a mat or dog bed when anyone is at the table with food. He should not be allowed to be near the table begging. Teaching him to go settle whenever the kids are at the table will eliminate the potential for food stealing, and what may have actually caused the bite - grabbing at the candy and getting the foot by accident. I would start on mat training immediately, if not, then put him behind a baby gate any, and every, time the kids are eating at the table.


Would it be a good idea to give him a peanut butter filled Kong, or an antler, or something like that, when he goes to his place, so he has his own treat while they're eating? Something he could only have in that spot, at those times?

(Feel free to tell me that's a dumb idea, but I thought I'd toss it out there!)


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

laprincessa said:


> Would it be a good idea to give him a peanut butter filled Kong, or an antler, or something like that, when he goes to his place, so he has his own treat while they're eating? Something he could only have in that spot, at those times?
> 
> (Feel free to tell me that's a dumb idea, but I thought I'd toss it out there!)


Yes, definitely a good idea.


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## tine434 (Nov 24, 2013)

Rem knows park it.... which is the same concept except it isn't used for food it is just when needed.... but he really has come to enjoy his spot, similar to the way he enjoys his crate. He stays until we say "off"

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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

mylissyk said:


> This is a good opportunity to teach Boston to go "settle", go lay on a mat or dog bed when anyone is at the table with food. He should not be allowed to be near the table begging. Teaching him to go settle whenever the kids are at the table will eliminate the potential for food stealing, and what may have actually caused the bite - grabbing at the candy and getting the foot by accident. I would start on mat training immediately, if not, then put him behind a baby gate any, and every, time the kids are eating at the table.


If the Op chooses to do training at the place the evaluation is being done, they will teach Boston to "Climb". Even tho I dont have small children, my dogs are always in a climb (on their kuranda beds) while we eat dinner, they climb also when guest come over till they calm down.


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## ephisig764 (Aug 13, 2013)

I am sad to say that it looks like we are going to have to surrender Boston. My wife was getting dressed today and the kids were on the floor waking up and he growled and snapped at my son again. He was laying by him petting him, not being annoying (like I said, he can be.) My wife is too frightened that he is a ticking time bomb and doesn't want to risk a severe injury to our kids or other kids. He has now bitten our neighbor's daughter, our daughter and my son. It is clear that he has issues with young kids at times.

I am going to still take him to the training class tomorrow just so the trainer can see him and I can explain what is going on. She may have some suggestions for a new home. He definitely needs to be in a home with no kids or atleast older kids over 10. I am going to touch base with Dirk's Fund Golden Retriever Rescue here in the St. Louis area and discuss how they can help. If anyone has a connection to someone who can help him, I'd appreciate it. He is a great dog.


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## tine434 (Nov 24, 2013)

You are doing what's best and that is all you can do.... Thank you for contacting the right people

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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

I'm sad to see this, but I give you a great deal of credit for doing the best thing for everyone.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

I am so sorry that he has acted out again. Good luck with finding him a new home.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I am so sad for him and for you, for your kids and your wife that this happened, and 95 percent of the time I am in favor of almost anything that keeps the dog in his forever home, but in this case it sounds like you absolutely must do this, and that you are doing it right. I am confident you will be able to place this guy with a great home. We have been able to place 3 foster goldens, both Nina/ Phoebe and Jeeter with bite histories, and all are thriving in no-kid homes with no further bites. It is networking well enough to find that staunch golden home in the area with no kids, and lots of experience.


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

Wow, your neighbor's daughter, your daughter and your son, and now snapping at your son again? This is far more than I understood; I thought it was a single event. So very sad for you and for your pup. You're doing absolutely the right thing, and I commend you for taking him to be evaluated and for contacting a rescue and all the other things you are doing. You have not given up on this dog, at all, but you rightly concluded that he just can't stay in your home. Everything you have done and are doing is the right thing. So don't feel guilty about any of it (if you are). You're doing what's best not only for your family, but for this dog, too. His best chance is with a home without children.

I'm sorry you're having to deal with this, but you're doing it with a level head and a good heart, so good for you.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

I'm so sorry. I agree with what Ljilly said - I do think you're doing the right thing. And I rarely advocate for giving up the dog either. I do hope some day you might be able to have a dog that will be a wonderful part of your family. I know you will not let just anyone have him - and that he'll find a good home.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Until you can place him, I hope you will keep him separated from the kids. Your wife is right to be worried given his continuing behavior. I am so very sorry it has turned out this way, but you are doing the right thing for your family, kids, and even for Boston.


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## alphadude (Jan 15, 2010)

Sorry to hear that but you are doing the right thing.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

ephisig764 said:


> I am sad to say that it looks like we are going to have to surrender Boston….. He has now bitten our neighbor's daughter, our daughter and my son…..


Do you have an update for us on Boston? I hope you have been keeping him completely separate from the kids. 

I'm going to say this in the nicest tone possible, "Why didn't you tell us that Boston had also bitten two other children?" It is so important to give all the information and would have made a difference in the type of input we would have given you right off the bat.


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## ephisig764 (Aug 13, 2013)

nolefan said:


> Do you have an update for us on Boston? I hope you have been keeping him completely separate from the kids.
> 
> I'm going to say this in the nicest tone possible, "Why didn't you tell us that Boston had also bitten two other children?" It is so important to give all the information and would have made a difference in the type of input we would have given you right off the bat.


I agree. I guess I was so caught up with the issue at hand that I did not think about the other times. Those instances were when we first rescued him and I think the kids were not aware of this dog's personality as opposed to our more submissive previous Golden. He likes to soft bite and I feel that the kids would pull away real quick and they got scratched more than bit. I brought it up, because my wife has been bringing up those instances to justify our decsion. The kids don't understand the soft biting and that is one of the manners he would need to be taught in training.

Like I've said, I've only seen his loving side. And I wouldn't even say he has an agressive side, he is just a rough dog. He has lots of power and weight behind that power. He tends to literally walk on top of you if you are on the floor and lays down on you to get attention. He jumps, soft bites and just uses his brute force when he is around you. 

I took him to the class on Saturday and they said he is definitely trainable. After that, I took him to the vet (he has two Goldens at home) and talked about it with him. When they see him, and let me preface this with they are not animal behaviorist, they see a good and smart dog that has tons of potential. I really think he would benefit from in kennel training for two weeks. We may give him another chance with training. I'll know in the next day or so. In the mean time, we are keeping close eye on him and not letting him alone with the kids.


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## tine434 (Nov 24, 2013)

Class on Saturday.... was that where a behavioralist or just a trainer? I wasn't sure when you said 'they are not animal behavioralist' if you were referring to the vet only

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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

I assume by "kennel training" you mean a situation where you send him to a trainer for two weeks? If that is so I don't think that is a good solution for Boston. I wonder what they would teach him that would help? You can't really train aggression out of him, and while some of his incidents may have been "soft biting" he is being aggressive when he growls at your wife. In addition, will your wife ever trust this dog? Will you ever trust him around children? Should you? 

The idea that the dog is "soft biting" is troubling to me. A dog knows exactly where his mouth is and exactly how much pressure he is putting on the thing in his mouth, especially Goldens who were bred to have soft mouths. I wrestle with my Girl Selli and I did with my boy Dexy and they have often have their mouths on my hands and wrists but they don't break the skin and more importantly, they never use their mouths on anyone other than me regardless of the situation.

I guess I think you should continue to look at placement if your home will be a place where adolescent children act like adolescent children.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I am not sure what size your dog is exactly, but this is a good muzzle. It's a pretty color so it doesnt scare people, and you can teach the dog to love it by letting him take treats out of it, play fetch with it, and regard it as his. This is a safety thing I really suggest.
Amazon.com: Dog Baskerville Ultra Muzzle Blue Size 4: Pet Supplies


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

I think you're in a tough spot and I still applaud that you are trying to do the right thing for everyone...your family and your dog. Will be thinking about you.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Anytime a dog has bitten the scenario becomes not "if" he will bite again, but "when" he will bite again. Keeping him in a home where children will be children is setting him up for failure.

Reconditioning him to tolerate children around him is a long term, training intensive project. Even if you made progress, you would never be able to trust him, because it requires eyes on, hands on _management _*always*.

I really encourage you to go forward with placing him in a non-child home, he is just too much of a risk with children in my opinion.


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