# Help!!



## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

What kind of dog did your Golden attack?


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

No, that is definitely not normal. The book Aggression In Dogs by Brenda Aloff is a good resource, but you need a good evaluation by a great trainer. Your dog should wear a basket muzzle anytime he may encounter other dogs.


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## HovawartMom (Aug 10, 2006)

Goldens are usually not dog aggressive but it can happen.
Is he neutered?.If not,I would.
It will help but not stop the problem.
Knowing this,I would keep him,away from other dogs until you train him and even then,I would always be,careful.
Was the other dog,a male?.
He could just be gender aggressive,unless he goes,after females,as well.
Could you tell us more about yr dog: Age,history,etc.
He is exercised enough and could you tell us,more,about the attack?.


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

So sorry! I think muzzle when outdoors is really your only option!

My yorkies & cats have killed mice and chimpunks- So I would never trust them with small animals.

Cat killing is a no-no in my book especially since I have cats. 

I personally would not ever trust this dog with other animals with his history even before he injured the neighbors dog.

I hope you find the help you dog needs. Goldens should not be killers.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

MikaTallulah said:


> .........I personally would not ever trust this dog with other animals with his history even before he injured the neighbors do.


I am afraid I agree with this comment. You can't ever trust this dog with small animals (and I would include very small children/toddlers) ever again. This is not normal. You will need to take extreme precautions to make sure that this situation never occurs again. I mean he is never, ever outside of your home (I'm assuming you have a securely fenced backyard) unless he is leashed and under control by an adult. I would have locks on the gates too so that you never have to worry that neighbor kids or a meter reader etc. would let him loose without your knowledge.

I am sorry you went through such a horrific experience, especially sorry for the owner of the other dog. If there were any vet bills for their dog, have you offered to reimburse them?


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

I think we need more information about the attack. Was your dog's intent to kill? Was it a fight? Was he in prey drive? Not that anything excuses the behavior, knowing what mindset he was in will help determine how he needs to be helped.

I agree that you can never trust this dog again but can work with him to lessen his aggression by working with a behaviorist.

My God-dog has killed all sorts of rodents, water-fowl and a fawn. I would not trust him around domesticated rodents, but he is fine with cats and although he can be a jerk with other dogs, he has never injured another dog.


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

I can't image how you must be feeling. I'm so sorry!

Does your dog live in your backyard? Is that where he killed the animals he previously killed? 

I wanted to also reiterate that a strong leash and a well-fitted muzzle that you have introduced properly (



) is a must when you're out with him. But please note that a muzzle is only intended for short periods (ie. a walk), not constantly if he lives in the yard. 

Please get help from a certified behaviour professional. The money will be worth is. Try one of the following:

Find a Consultant | AVSAB
Find Dog, Cat, Parrot and Horse Behavior Consultants | IAABC
Certification Council for Professional Dog Trainers®


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## Philips5 (Nov 11, 2012)

It was a short mixed breed heavy dog that was attacked. He was about 40 pounds. Our dog is extremely gentle with people and is always around children. He is five years old and has always had a female companion. Our female is a 5 month old puppy and he has been very gentle and nurturing with her since day one. 

He lives in a partly fenced, entirely underground fenced yard that is about two acres. He was just barking at the dog until I came outside and then he attacked. ( I think he thought he was protecting me.) He has occasionally been around other dogs at the vets or park and has never had a problem. 

I will not muzzle him as he is an outside dog. 


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## ebenjamin85 (Apr 13, 2008)

Can you put up a physical fence?

I know a lot of people that have great success with underground fences. I personally do not trust them as I feel that keeping things out of the yard is just as important to keeping my dogs safe as using the fence to keep them inside.

A few years ago a family member's dog attacked a child that was inside their fence at night. Scared me and I swore from that point I would always make sure to have a physical fence for my dogs. 

I hope you get the help you need! It's a very scary situation to be in.


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## Vinnie's Mom (Jun 9, 2012)

Is is not normal for a Golden to kill cats and dogs. If this post if for real, you should expect a visit from animal control.


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## Philips5 (Nov 11, 2012)

I'm sorry. This is our fourth Golden and all have killed cats and rodents around the yard. 


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## Philips5 (Nov 11, 2012)

I'm pretty sure it's a territorial thing with outside dogs. We had a female that was storm shy and came in the house occasionally. She would sleep with the cat when in the house, but when outside she would attack. 


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## ebenjamin85 (Apr 13, 2008)

Are your dogs outside dogs? That may be part of the issue. I think most here will agree that Goldens are not suited for the outside dog life and do best inside the house.


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## Tayla's Mom (Apr 20, 2012)

I agree that Goldens should not be outside dogs. May I ask why he is? Especially knowing he kills animals you don't have him in a completely fenced yard. 


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## goldhaven (Sep 3, 2009)

If I understand correctly, you are asking if it is normal for your outside dog, a golden retriever, 5 years old, to attack another dog, killing it, without provocation?
I don't think it is a territorial thing and I don't think it is normal. Although all of my dogs are indoor dogs, when I was growing up we, and all of the neighbors had outdoor dogs. Our dog, a golden retriever, was in a fenced kennel until he was about 5 years old. At that time we lived in NY and no one had their dogs in the house. When he was 5, we moved to Maine and he lived the life of a farm dog on 200 acres. He lived outside with the barn cats and the cows and chickens and never killed anything. He greeted everyone with a wag of his tail, and his wagging tongue. This type of behavior is what I consider normal for a golden retriever. I don't believe that indoor or outdoor makes a difference. It is the temperament of the dog that we are talking about and from my experience, I don't believe that this is normal behavior for a golden retriever. JMO.


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## Philips5 (Nov 11, 2012)

The man came into our yard with his dog. It would not have mattered if our driveway was fenced or not. 




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## Philips5 (Nov 11, 2012)

I never questioned his temperament until this happened. He does (usually) greet people with a smile, tongue out, and tail wagging. My two year old grandson plays with him and as rough as he gets is a lick on the face. We had a rummage sale, people brought leashed dogs with them, and he was fine. 


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

We see a lot of dogs that are outside dogs come into the shelter with a history of cat chasing and even killing. I do believe that him being an outside dog has to do with his behaviour. 

Would you consider allowing him to live inside with his human family?


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

It is not 'normal' for any dog to viciously attack another dog,(or kill a cat) regardless of 'reason'. Since you have had four dogs that have killed cats (and now a dog) that have crossed the 'invisible' line into your yard, I suggest that you are dealing with frustration and aggression due to the underground fence. Dogs learn by association, whatever they are looking at is responsible for their pain/discomfort. The dog is in effect 'teased' or 'challenged' by the cat or dog wandering outside the fenceline, if it gets too close to the fence line (or crosses it) gets a shock, the shock is associated with the cat (or dog). If the dog knows to avoid he fence, just the frustration of seeing the dog or cat, and not being able to get to it, is frustrating for them. Over time that frustation builds (and the association is reinforced each time it happens) and when 'opportunity knocks' the dog takes his 'revenge'. Suggest you build a physical fence.


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

I don't understand the request for "help" when you have your goldens living outside with ample opportunity to hone their craft of repeatedly killing animals smaller than themselves of which your ok with. Are you worried about the neighbor reporting you?


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## Lennap (Jul 9, 2010)

SheetsSM said:


> I don't understand the request for "help" when you have your goldens living outside with ample opportunity to hone their craft of repeatedly killing animals smaller than themselves of which your ok with. Are you worried about the neighbor reporting you?


 
I was thinking the same thing - what type of help were you seeking when you started this post? I don't think you are going to read what you want on this board - given that the majority of the people on this board to not advocate the manner in which you keep your dog.

Best of luck to you


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

Although I think most of the forum members (including myself) believe Goldens should be inside dogs, I think your best solution to this problem is to only allow this dog to be within a physically fenced yard. It is far less likely that your neighbor would enter into a fenced yard to say "HI" than come through the invisible fence. Remember, it is an "invisible" fence, meaning he could not see it and likely did not realize it was there. Also, the fact that you had your dog out with an invisible fence implies that your dog is not aggressive. Now you know differently, so there is no excuse for allowing him to be in a situation where he can attack other dogs.

Is your dog intact? Was the other dog intact? It may be possible that your female is coming into heat, or even if she isn't actually going into heat, she is becoming more sexually mature and other males will become more interested in her. That can make your male even more dangerous. All these things are more reasons to have a physical fence.

As to cats, is there a large population of feral cats where you live? I can see to some extent where a dog might become a cat killer if there was. My dogs have lived and loved inside/outside cats and they knew their cats whether they were inside or outside (our cats would go for walks with us). They would chase cats they did not know outside, but would not attack those cats. If the cat stood still to greet the dogs they would all do a polite greeting and if the cat reacted aggressively, they would back WAAAAY off.

Back to Goldens in general. They should NOT be killers of dogs, it demonstrates poor temperament. However, this dog has killed another dog and MUST be contained to prevent him from harming another dog. As to danger to humans, being dog/dog aggressive does not necessarily mean he will ever bee human aggressive. Most Pit Bulls would never hurt a human even if they are dog aggressive. However, the fact that this dog has used his teeth to resolve his problems and is of a breed that should NEVER do that, might suggest that he will do the same thing if his problem is with a human.


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## willows pack (Apr 14, 2012)

I wouldn't want an outdoor dog either but everyone has different lifestyles...the dog does sound like he thinks his job is to protect the perimeter unfortunately. Now that he has killed another dog...and this wasn't a tiny fluff dog where you could pass it off as mistaken for a cat or other...you will have to keep very diligent about the yard...big warning signs etc and I would consider a muzzle on walks outside the property unless you think you have full control over him in those situations. I didn't think Goldens killed cats...very unfortunate situation.


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## goldhaven (Sep 3, 2009)

Philips5 said:


> I never questioned his temperament until this happened. He does (usually) greet people with a smile, tongue out, and tail wagging. My two year old grandson plays with him and as rough as he gets is a lick on the face. We had a rummage sale, people brought leashed dogs with them, and he was fine.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


A dog that I knew for a fact, killed cats, and had killed another dog, would never be allowed to play with my grandchildren. Your dog is not just attacking or biting to subdue. He is attacking to kill. IMO this is much more dangerous and I would never take the chance that it may happen to a child. 
One quick question that may have already been answered but I haven't seen, were you right there when it happened and was an attempt made to break up the fight?


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## goldhaven (Sep 3, 2009)

Charliethree said:


> It is not 'normal' for any dog to viciously attack another dog,(or kill a cat) regardless of 'reason'. Since you have had four dogs that have killed cats (and now a dog) that have crossed the 'invisible' line into your yard, I suggest that you are dealing with frustration and aggression due to the underground fence. Dogs learn by association, whatever they are looking at is responsible for their pain/discomfort. The dog is in effect 'teased' or 'challenged' by the cat or dog wandering outside the fenceline, if it gets too close to the fence line (or crosses it) gets a shock, the shock is associated with the cat (or dog). If the dog knows to avoid he fence, just the frustration of seeing the dog or cat, and not being able to get to it, is frustrating for them. Over time that frustation builds (and the association is reinforced each time it happens) and when 'opportunity knocks' the dog takes his 'revenge'. Suggest you build a physical fence.


I totally agree with this.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

What Goldhaven has written is exactly why my dog trainer friend dislikes invisible fence... Barrier frustration, redirected aggression... I have invisible fence, live in the middle of sixty eight acres, 1100 feet off the road. Mine are only out to do their business or if we are out with them. They would get into so much trouble if they were left outside...instead they sleep on the couch and chairs all day. My Emmie did catch a mouse in the house once. She bright it into the kitchen and was so proud. There wasn't a single mark on it and we guessed she must have scared it to death... Living in the woods, we get the mouse wildlife...


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## Braccarius (Sep 8, 2008)

I never understood why someone would rather have a lawn ornament than a companion. You've recieved a far better reception than I would have expected here, but the truth is you've made the dog aggressive and are reaping the result.


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## willows pack (Apr 14, 2012)

I'm not sure a backyard dog alone breeds a killer does it? Every farm dog would be a killer if that were the case. I didn't know the stats on invisible fences though...I have a friend that uses one and the dog is not aggressive at all. But she's not out there 24/7.

Historically dogs outside All the time was the norm...but if I didn't want my dog to kill things on the property I would probably have instilled that rule very early on. I've trained ours not to go after the cat and we recently had a bunny hanging out on the property..so I've gone out there in the few times the dog has spotted the rabbit and used the leave it command and used the cats name as well to get her to understand that all small critters are in the cat category.

I have no idea if that will last but so far she's not touched it. But again initial training was indoors in a controlled environment. This dog sees itself as the perimeter protector and training to reign in that aggression will not be easy

A physical fence or enclosure for the dog may now be mandatory if reported.


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