# Raw Food Diet



## Chloe's Mommy (Jan 6, 2006)

I have recently switched Chloe to Innova Evo dog food - a quite raw dog food. Had anyone had experience with this food? Most research I have done has been very positive, but I would like to talk with anyone who uses the dog food, or feeds their dog a raw diet. I'm especially concerned with the high protein content.
Thanks - Dawn and Chloe :wave:


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## katieanddusty (Feb 9, 2006)

Quite raw? It's just as cooked as any other kibble out there ... Dusty eats Evo and he has been going GREAT on it. The protein content doesn't cause problems for most dogs. Dogs with already weak kidneys sometimes have kidney problems with high-protein foods, so take her to the vet if she starts drinking water and peeing excessively. And make sure she's getting a lot of exercise, it's definitely not for sedentary dogs. Other than that there shouldn't be any problems.


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## gold4me (Mar 12, 2006)

I feed a raw diet. I have heard of this new diet but wonder how it can be dried and be considered raw. Isn't it processed??? I really don't know anything about it. I feed Billinghurst's BARF diet. My kids love love love it. It is easy to feed and I don't have to do the mixing and grinding. I also add some other things like chicken backs, gizzards and hearts.


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## PeggyK (Apr 16, 2005)

I know some people who think the BARF diet is wonderful-my brain can't get passed the idea that chicken should be cooked to be healthy.


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## katieanddusty (Feb 9, 2006)

It's not considered raw. It's considered "what to feed if you can't feed raw." The ingredients are similar to what most raw feeders feed, but it's just as cooked and processed as any other kibble.


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## gold4me (Mar 12, 2006)

I did a lot of reading and talking to my vet about raw chicken. It seems that their digestive system doesn't have a problem with it (Salmonella) unless I suppose they were already not healthy. The first time I gave my kids a raw chicken back they didn't know what to do with it. Now they sit right down and crunch crunch crunch.


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## Miss Daisy's Mom (Jun 29, 2005)

katieanddusty said:


> It's not considered raw. It's considered "what to feed if you can't feed raw." The ingredients are similar to what most raw feeders feed, but it's just as cooked and processed as any other kibble.


 Gonna have to disagree with you on this one, Katie. There is cheaply-made kibble which is, indeed, cooked and boiled and everything else they can think of doing to it which, of course, destroys all the good nutrients. Then there are some high-end kibbles which are made in a way where boiling is not used, nor the other methods which destroy the nutrients, thereby preserving all the good stuff that ones dog should have in a well-balanced diet, making it _almost_ as good as raw.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

What do you think wolves eat? Cans of Dinty Moore?


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## greg bell (May 24, 2005)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> What do you think wolves eat? Cans of Dinty Moore?


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## MegB (Jul 19, 2005)

gold4me said:


> The first time I gave my kids a raw chicken back they didn't know what to do with it. Now they sit right down and crunch crunch crunch.


Sounds like this diet is not for the faint of heart! I am not sure I could stomach listening to the crunching of chicken backs:yuck: .


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Meg, it does take some getting used to I suppose, but you know... I LOVE that sound now!!! It's so... primitive... it's the essense of canine.


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## katieanddusty (Feb 9, 2006)

> Gonna have to disagree with you on this one, Katie. There is cheaply-made kibble which is, indeed, cooked and boiled and everything else they can think of doing to it which, of course, destroys all the good nutrients. Then there are some high-end kibbles which are made in a way where boiling is not used, nor the other methods which destroy the nutrients, thereby preserving all the good stuff that ones dog should have in a well-balanced diet, making it almost as good as raw.


Very true. Okay, it's just as cooked and processed as any other high-end kibble


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## gold4me (Mar 12, 2006)

Ha Ha Ha It is kind of weird. But they REALLY enjoy it.


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## Miss Daisy's Mom (Jun 29, 2005)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> What do you think wolves eat? Cans of Dinty Moore?


Excuse me? Who was that meant for?


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## Miss Daisy's Mom (Jun 29, 2005)

katieanddusty said:


> Very true. Okay, it's just as cooked and processed as any other high-end kibble


You're so judgmental, Katie. And I see you've learned nothing from previous experience about not being rude.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

lol no one in particular. It's my standard humorous remark for people who at first panic when I tell them I feed my dogs raw food. Hence the smilie. It was not intended rudely.


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

katieanddusty said:


> Very true. Okay, it's just as cooked and processed as any other high-end kibble


Yes, as far as I know, all kibble is pressure cooked with steam during the extrusion process... that's where you dump the ingredients in one end and an internal screw moves it forward through a heated barrel... where everything is cooked... a necessity when vegetable matter in incorporated because it breaks down the cell walls which makes the contents available to the organism eating it... WOW! what a cool name for a dog "Organism"... and then its forced through a die and cut to give it the little shapes you see. Kibble will not hold together unless it has a certain amount of gluten in it... the gluten can come from a number of different grain sources but it must be cook to gelatinize the starch (above 148F) and the total grain content will have to be more than 50% of the kibble which makes the statement "meat as the major ingredient" on any kibble product highly suspect... there are tricky ways to get a meat at the top of the list of ingredients but the bottomline is... no matter how you split it up there has still got to be more grain in it than anything else.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

How in the WORLD was that rude? Or judgemental. It's totally true... see above post explaining how kibble is made *said with friendly tone so stating facts is not confused with being rude*

Why is sharing facts, or having anything resembling a sense of humor, laughter, fun, or a personality considered rudeness here? Lighten up... Katie was not being judgemental, nor was I. It is, indeed, a FACT, that no kibble is "raw" and Katie and others were simply stating that FACT.

I could have worded my silly little smiling joke more seriously: "dogs, like their wolf ancestors, were designed to process and digest raw meat and bones- whole prey. Indeed for humans, raw chicken would not be ideal, but we weren't designed to eat it the way canines were. Hope this doesn't offend  " 

Rude or judgemental would have been much different than anything posted in this thread. But you already know that.


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## greg bell (May 24, 2005)

I have become totally convinced that Monomer knows his dog food/nutrition. I would like very much for him to cut to the quick and tell us exactly what he feeds.


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## vrocco1 (Feb 25, 2006)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> What do you think wolves eat? Cans of Dinty Moore?


You mean they don't eat Dinty Moore?


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

greg bell said:


> I have become totally convinced that Monomer knows his dog food/nutrition. I would like very much for him to cut to the quick and tell us exactly what he feeds.


Its actually buried back in the old threads... Let's see if you can find it  , I'll bet you can.
Besides, you're retired... you've got nothing but time...


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## 3 goldens (Sep 30, 2005)

Before I get started on what I am going to say, I want to make a few things clear. I do not feed raw. I can't eat meat that isn't fully cooked and can't bring myself to give it to my dogs either. Heck, I don't really even like to handle raw meat...and this from an old woman who has cleaned many ducks, quail, doves, chickens and probably a ton of fish. I see nothing wrong at all with feeding raw if you can do it...I can't. And ever since i saw that lab puppy dying from a punctured stomach caused by a pork chop bone, I can not give mine any kind of bones. I know that is paranoid (heck I grew up with us giving ALL bones to our dogs and never had a problem).

Anyway some things have been crossing my mind about feeding our dogs. Many refer to what dogs ate before they were tamed. I got to thinking about that. They ran in packs like woves, and they had to kill for food, or scrounge remains left by some other critters. They had to battle nature--heat and cold, snow and rain, etc. They lived in caves or what shelter they could find. It took every bit of protein and calories, etc they could get to survive.

At the same time, before cavemen discovered fire, i assume they also ate raw meat if they made a kill. They also ate grubs and beetles and bugs of all kinds. (be still churning tummy). 

Fire was discovered, dogs were tamed and nothing is the same. I do not think many of us today would feast on grubs (the French and others do like snails but i reckon they are cooked) and beetles and gnaw chicken right off the bone after we killed it.

I do give mine meat or fish every day--but always cooked. They had chicken hearts last night along with unsalted canned green beans and carrot slices and little kibble. I guess what I am tryng to say is that so much has changed from those days when dogs had to fend for themselves and made do with what they could get, when they could get. Today so many live in the house with controled temps, never out in bad weather, are fed twice day, etc and I don't think it makes any difference if they get the raw meat or cooked meat. Everyone should just do what works best for them and their dogs.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I agree... I don't have a problem with NOT feeding raw at all. But I do choose to personally. Many dogs thrive on raw, many thrive on kibble... it's a personal choice. We all love our dogs- there's no doubt of that


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

As a side-note here... though it is very unpopular to be anti-raw (except on this forum where everyone gets along so nicely  ) there are a small number of websites that question the logic and safety of feeding raw/barf (and don't kid yourself, there are quite a number of pet deaths directly attributed to feeding raw chicken wings, backs, and necks). Do a search, see if you can find them and to prove you are not biased... I dare you to read them.

If you enter search terms like barf or raw meat you will easily find many pages of pro-barf sites... you will have to really search hard to find anything else. So if anyone searches and cannot find these websites and I am requested to, I will do the search when time permits and try to post the links to them... There are some really interesting counter-points made on those websites.

[Actually I posted some links to 3 of those sites a couple of years ago on another forum and boy did the sparks fly then.]


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I've read them. I don't mind taking the risk. I think it's worth it. But I never push anyone else to feed raw, and I don't feed foster dogs raw in case their new owners don't want to.


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## katieanddusty (Feb 9, 2006)

Miss Daisy's Mom said:


> You're so judgmental, Katie. And I see you've learned nothing from previous experience about not being rude.


What? There must be a HUGE misinterpretation going on somewhere, because that was not intended to be rude in any way, and I can't even see how it could have been interpreted as rude or judgmental.


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