# More Junior Handling....



## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

This weekend my 12 year old daughter showed for the first time. Loved it. She showed my breeder's dog, getting 1st in Open and today 2nd in Open. Yesterday she did very well, and actually beat the bitch that got WB today.

So today, she goes into the JH ring, same judge as yesterday. She did really well, but was the only one in her class, so was called back in, to go against the winners of the other classes. She comes out very quiet and later telling me she hates JH. The judge did a lot of talking to them, and of course we could not hear. She was told that the little girl with some "mop breed" did not have to properly stack her dog because you can't see the legs, so it doesn't matter. When they went back in to go against the older girl, she looked about 15 to 17, the judge only judged the older girl, did not even look at my daughter or the girl under 12 year old. The judge said that the older girl was automatically the winner because she had more experience and was older.

Is this right? Did my daughter misunderstand? She has done horse competitions before and has gone against older and more experienced riders, but was fairly judged. I guess naturally that girl should win if she is better, but it sounded like the judge's reasoning was off or should not have worded it in that way.

Now - she never wants to do JH again and just wants to handle in the regular ring against the adults. Ugh.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

It is a different ballgame from regular show rings, but I believe there is a lot to learn in the JS ring. Even mops have to be stacked or their toplines look bad... SURELY she did not hear right. There is no way the judge should have said that to them. Really- that'd be so wrong. While there are many rings where if you are watching you'd be sure that's what's happening, there are some gifted novices who do beat the open kids. Maybe make a deal w her to stay in till she's actually in open instead of novice. She'll like it much better.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

I am going to let her cool down a little. I know the handlers that come out of this program end up being some of the best as adults. In the classes we go to she has had two professional handlers tell me that she is very talented and good already - of course she still has lots to learn - and we are very fortunate for her to have a very well trained dog, and one that is very correct. This dog has shutdown in the show ring with adults but works for my daughter.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

I have to preface this with I only showed juniors maybe twice as a youngster. But, I spent years in horses. 

Your daughter's story reminds me of me with my horse Angel. We would compete in both the pleasure classes (based on the performance of the horse) and horsemanship (based on the performance of the rider). At first I hated horsemanship because I was loosing and liked pleasure classes because I was doing better there. I was at a point where my horse was better than me. 
Then I had a shift, I wanted to be better then my horse. I saw the pleasure wins as Angel's and the horsemanship wins as mine. I worked harder on the more regimented skills needed for horsemanship, then I started winning horsemanship and I loved it. Then those new horsemanship skills transferred over and I was able to win both classes at increasingly higher levels of competition. 

I am not sure, but I think this might be happening with your daughter, especially with a correct well trained dog. In breed the judge could be doing what they should and judging the dog, at the same time forgiving any of your daughter's lack of experiance. Flipping over to JH, the judges doing it right are not looking at the dog other than grooming and presentation. They are looking at the junior. The rules are much more rigid in JH, less room for customized or creative handling. 

As far as the wording from the judge, we won't know because you did not hear it with your own ears. Your daughter is giving it to you as she understood it and colored by her emotions. I believe she told what she understood, I do not think she is fudging it. 

Alternate, devils advocate theories:

The mop dog - perhaps the judge was explaining that breed should not be "hand" stacked on the ground. That the mop dog handler would have to work on free stacking but that it would take training and not to expect a dog to be perfect at it immediatly. "So, don't worry about it today but work on it for the future."

The older handler - could this be similar to best of winners? Because the judge had recently judged them they are not judged in the same depth as the specials who hit the ring for the first time. It sounds like the younger girls had recently be judged. Was the older girl in the ring for the first time? I don't know so I am asking. 

It is quite possible the older more experienced won on the merit of her performance. If I were the judge and wanted to explain to judging to all exhibitors I might make a comment like that. Maybe something along the lines of "Thank you, you all did a wonderful job today. My winner today displayed skills that come with experiance and maturity. I encourage you all to continue to work on your skills as I can see all of you being successful in the future."

Now, those are my theories but I could see my younger self only hearing what your daughter reported back. What was said versus what she heard is beside the point because the reality for her is what she shared and I don't blame her for not being happy with that. 

Perhaps if she is competitive like I was you could (after she has time to decompress) make sure she knows that breed is about judging the dog and JH is about judging her skills. If you can put her in competition against the dog it could work, it did for me.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Thanks for your input. 

I was wondering if she misunderstood. She did know that the open class was judging the dog and the JH was judging the handler. I really wish I knew more Junior handlers or could find out more info. My two cobreeders are teaching her based on when their children were younger.

That does make sense about the little mop dog - sad that I did not even recognize the breed, might have been a Coton Du Tular.

Well we will go back to class on Wednesday. We have some very experienced people in class with us that are judges and pro handlers, maybe I can have them give here a little pep talk.

In the meantime, she is studying pedigrees and planning for her next show dog, and possibly a stud for Sailor. I can't believe some of the people she has contacted and introduced herself to online. Owners of the top golden retrievers! All these people have been very nice to her and supportive.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

I was never wild about Juniors either but a lot of kids love it. I would encourage her to give it a few more tries before forming an opinion. It's a learning curve. We can't possibly understand and excel right out of the gate. 
I find the judging procedure in JS to be silly at times but considering the entry fee is typically nominal or free it is a good time for her to practice in the ring. Just show her dog as the breed should be shown, not just to win a handling competition. 
The stacking the mop breed is a perfect example. Many small breeds especially with hair are NOT hand-stacked on the ground. Not only is it unnecessary but looks ungainly to have the handler hunkering over the dog to accomplish it.


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