# Difference between ESA and Service Dogs



## USAFWife74 (Jan 13, 2013)

I had a LONG conversation today while I was out with Ellie. A woman in an establishment told me a customer came into her store (a hair salon), pointed at Ellie (we were on a bench outside) and told the hairdresser, "I'm gonna dress my dog in a vest like that, and you won't be able to tell me to leave!" Can you believe it?

I told her the rules, and the differences because she came out asked me. It's a touchy subject for any of us with service dogs, right?!?

We talked for awhile, and I was already upset because I was meeting a friend who was asking me about the progression of my condition....Ellie sat up and put her paw on my arm. Sweet girl.

Anyways, I hope I was able to educate this woman well. I gave her one of my cards that I carry that outlines the federal law. I carry it for my own reference and know what my rights are. I also told her there are fakers out there and how to spot the difference. 

Sigh.....




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## USAFWife74 (Jan 13, 2013)

Ok, now what's worse is that in talking about this on my FB page, someone I know actually said, "gosh, what did people do before all these service dogs started coming about? There are wheelchairs, and comes. Only blind people need them".

I responded by saying the mentally ill back in the days were put in asylums. Disabled people just either got institutionalized or became shut ins. What the heck is wrong with people? Lol


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## USAFWife74 (Jan 13, 2013)

Canes


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## Cooper'sMom2013 (Sep 14, 2013)

Oh that's infuriating! It makes me nervous for my hubby/us when we get our PTSD dog trained.


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## USAFWife74 (Jan 13, 2013)

Know your rights, know your dog. There is a fine line between emotional support animals (not granted access rights) and psychiatric service dogs (access rights). With emotional support animals, there generally does require a doctors note because these are only for emotional support. They have housing rights and can accompany on planes. Psychiatric service dogs actually are task trained. There is a difference.

My nephews ex wife bought certification online. I don't know her personally, but she is an Afghanistan veteran suffered from PTSD. He was not trained specifically to help her with her illness. She would be able to take him and get housing with no pet deposits and can even fly with him if it's within a year of her doctor certifying her need. That requires no training. A psychiatric service dog has to undergo the same public access test and be trained for tasks to alleviate the psychiatric issues. 

Since Ellie is being mobility trained, we have the same full rights as a guide dog. In reading more, I'm supposed to get her a tag from the county clerk, but even then there is no certification, only the knowledge that if I were lying about it, I'd be subject to a fine and imprisonment. 




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## Pammie (Jan 22, 2011)

MominGermany said:


> I'm supposed to get her a tag from the county clerk, but even then there is no certification, only the knowledge that if I were lying about it, I'd be subject to a fine and imprisonment.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What kind of tag?


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## Cooper'sMom2013 (Sep 14, 2013)

We intend to train him as psychiatric service dog. He will be trained to mitigate symptoms of PTSD.


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## USAFWife74 (Jan 13, 2013)

Pammie said:


> What kind of tag?


This is what I read....

Registration of Service or Support Animal
Registration of a service or support animal is not a requirement. Legally, what determines that an animal is a service or support animal is a letter from your doctor (see “Get a Doctor's Letter” below). Therefore, you cannot be prevented from entering a business or residence with your service or support animal simply because you do not have proof of registration.

However, California does register service dogs through county animal enforcement departments. Though service dog tags (or vests) are not required by the ADA or any California laws, they are a convenient and visible way for business owners, landlords and others to recognize a service animal. 

In San Francisco, service dogs only can be licensed through Animal Care and Control (ACC). Click for ACC’s Service Dog registration process and requirements. ACC is located at 1200 15th Street in San Francisco. You can contact ACC at 415.554.6364. 


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## USAFWife74 (Jan 13, 2013)

It wasn't mentioned to me at all by my trainer, and anyone can get one. I don't really see the benefit of having it! I'll gladly tell anyone what Ellie helps me with. And if I get upset, she'll place her paw on my arm and they'll see! Lol

That's what she did today! But that's not what she training for....she's just so in tune with me. Ha ha ha.


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## USAFWife74 (Jan 13, 2013)

§ 54.2. Guide, signal or service dogs; right to accompany individuals with a disability and trainers; damages

(a) Every individual with a disability has the right to be accompanied by a guide dog, signal dog, or service dog, especially trained for the purpose, in any of the places specified in Section 54.1 without being required to pay an extra charge or security deposit for the guide dog, signal dog, or service dog. However, the individual shall be liable for any damage done to the premises or facilities by his or her dog.

(b) Individuals who are blind or otherwise visually impaired and persons licensed to train guide dogs for individuals who are blind or visually impaired pursuant to Chapter 9.5 (commencing with Section 7200) of Division 3 of the Business and Professions Code or as defined in regulations implementing Title III of the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 (Public Law 101-336), [FN1] and individuals who are deaf or hearing impaired and persons authorized to train signal dogs for individuals who are deaf or hearing impaired, and individuals with a disability and persons who are authorized to train service dogs for the individuals with a disability may take dogs, for the purpose of training them as guide dogs, signal dogs, or service dogs in any of the places specified in Section 54.1 without being required to pay an extra charge or security deposit for the guide dog, signal dog, or service dog. However, the person shall be liable for any damage done to the premises or facilities by his or her dog. These persons shall ensure the dog is on a leash and tagged as a guide dog, signal dog, or service dog by an identification tag issued by the county clerk, animal control department, or other agency, as authorized by Chapter 3.5 (commencing with Section 30850) of Title 14 of the Food and Agricultural Code.

A violation of the right of an individual under the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 (Public Law 101-336) also constitutes a violation of this section, and nothing in this section shall be construed to limit the access of any person in violation of that act.

(c) As used in this section, the terms "guide dog," "signal dog," and "service dog" have the same meanings as specified in Section 54.1.

(d) Nothing in this section precludes the requirement of the showing of a license plate or disabled placard when required by enforcement units enforcing disabled persons parking violations pursuant to Sections 22507.8 and 22511.8 of the Vehicle Code.


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## USAFWife74 (Jan 13, 2013)

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/investigations/Frustrated-by-Fake-Service-Dogs-208233211.html

Articles like these are what really make me mad. Because it does undermine what I'm doing here. Ellie is getting hours upon hours of training under direct supervision of my trainer. She comes once a week, we work in private and once every two weeks we try new establishments to see where Ellie needs the most help in public places. But I'm under strict rules about the number of hours she's working, the places I take her to, etc. one bad visit could undermine her training. If she's being unruly, it has to be a situation I would not mind leaving. But she never does. She honestly shuts everything else out and just watches me. She leans when I'm unsteady, or she lays down if she sees I'm taking my time and I'm ok. We do her service tasks at home. We will start incorporating those in public when she has so many hours under her belt. And I am documenting it all. I'd be able to stand in a court of law and tell them this is what I'm doing and how we are getting there.

Lol


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## Pammie (Jan 22, 2011)

MominGermany said:


> This is what I read....
> 
> Registration of Service or Support Animal
> Registration of a service or support animal is not a requirement. Legally, what determines that an animal is a service or support animal is a letter from your doctor (see “Get a Doctor's Letter” below). Therefore, you cannot be prevented from entering a business or residence with your service or support animal simply because you do not have proof of registration.
> ...


You are right that legally you do not have to register your dog as a service dog anywhere. Many counties (mine included, Nevada County, CA) do provide free dog licenses to service dogs. The license is a different shape and color than standard issue. The handle signs an affidavit stating that the dog is a trained service dog and that perjuring themselves is fraud. 
A person with a disability/service dog can also go thru the normal channels and pay for their county license and not be 'registered'. I know several people with invisible disabilities who choose the 'registration' just in hopes that with that tag they will be hassled less when they are out dining, shopping etc.

It sounds that your Ellie is doing excellent and that your bond with her grows stronger each day!


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## USAFWife74 (Jan 13, 2013)

Pammie said:


> You are right that legally you do not have to register your dog as a service dog anywhere. Many counties (mine included, Nevada County, CA) do provide free dog licenses to service dogs. The license is a different shape and color than standard issue. The handle signs an affidavit stating that the dog is a trained service dog and that perjuring themselves is fraud.
> A person with a disability/service dog can also go thru the normal channels and pay for their county license and not be 'registered'. I know several people with invisible disabilities who choose the 'registration' just in hopes that with that tag they will be hassled less when they are out dining, shopping etc.
> 
> It sounds that your Ellie is doing excellent and that your bond with her grows stronger each day!


I don't think I'll get the tag. I think her behavior in itself proves the training and benefits she provides to me. Lol. Once she clears hips she'll start wearing a harness. Right now she's doing her work with a double loop leash, that way I have her support. If anyone wants to ask, like I said, I don't mind. I haven't had issues. I just found today pretty interesting! Lol. My hips and my gait lately are making it a little more obvious. 

Our team is really a match made in heaven! 

We really should have a get together sometime! ?


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## USAFWife74 (Jan 13, 2013)

Bumping this up today since this is so near and dear to many of us!


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## JLC44 (Jun 18, 2013)

As far as the state registration, the states can offer it but it has to be voluntary to not conflict with the ADA. What some states do is link the registration to their laws that offer added protection that the ADA does not. As far as I can tell CA laws have no such requirement for registration.

For example in North Carolina it is a misdemeanor to deny a service dog IF you show them the NC registration tag. Without the tag (or proof of training) it is still violation of the ADA but not a misdemeanor which means the police won't help you.

Table of all states laws regarding Service Animals from the Michigan State University College of Law 
Table of State Assistance Animal Laws

*§ 168-4.2. May be accompanied by service animal* (a) Every person with a disability has the right to be accompanied by a service animal trained to assist the person with his or her specific disability in any of the places listed in G.S. 168-3, and has the right to keep the service animal on any premises the person leases, rents, or uses. The person qualifies for these rights upon the showing of a tag, issued by the Department of Health and Human Services, under G.S. 168-4.3, stamped “NORTH CAROLINA SERVICE ANIMAL PERMANENT REGISTRATION” and stamped with a registration number, or upon a showing that the animal is being trained or has been trained as a service animal. The service animal may accompany a person in any of the places listed in G.S. 168-3.

*§ 168-4.5. Penalty* It is unlawful to disguise a dog as an assistance dog, or to deprive a visually impaired person, a hearing impaired person, or a mobility impaired person of any rights granted the person pursuant to G.S. 168-4.2 through G.S. 168-4.4, or of any rights or privileges granted the general public with respect to being accompanied by dogs, or to charge any fee for the use of the assistance dog. Violation of this section shall be a Class 3 misdemeanor.


Also worth noting NC recognizes all Assistance Animals not just dogs and mini horses.

*§ 14-163.1. Assaulting a law enforcement agency animal or an assistance animal* (a) The following definitions apply in this section:
(1) Assistance animal.--An animal that is trained and may be used to assist a “person with a disability” as defined in G.S. 168A-3. The term “assistance animal” is not limited to a dog and includes any animal trained to assist a person with a disability as provided in Article 1 of Chapter 168 of the General Statutes.


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## JLC44 (Jun 18, 2013)

MominGermany said:


> Bumping this up today since this is so near and dear to many of us!
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com App


Thought you would want to see this from San Diego yesterday.
10News - Disabled woman upset over service dog tags - 10News.com - News


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## Pammie (Jan 22, 2011)

I am confuzzled by that article above 

Maybe I am not comprehending but in one paragraph it states she got a letter of denial from the county saying 

_"It explained that assistance dog tags are authorized for guide dogs, signal dogs and service dogs – not for dogs that provide comfort, support or therapy."_ ----OK fine, tags for SD only.

but then the next paragraph says...

_"10News contacted the county's Department of Animal Services and were told that these types of trained dogs do not need a special tag. The owner can just explain to whoever is asking that it is a service dog. The establishment cannot ask what the disability is but can ask what service the dog provides." _:uhoh::curtain:

So, the County denies her, asserting that Chloe is not a SD, but basically tells her she can take Chloe out without a tag anyway because a tag is not required?

As much as I know people with SD are struggling to assert their rights I know first hand how hard this also is for Animal Control. I work at a Center for Independent Living. We provide information, referrals and services to people with disabilities and provide information and technical support (ADA stuff, for ex.) to any one else. We have worked directly with our Animal Control because of the influx of what they felt were fakers wanting a SD tag. We provided training to the Animal Control and have a good relationship with them- they understand the law, invisible disabilities, the 2 questions they can ask applicants etc. 
You should hear the stories they are told by people as far as what task their dog is trained to do. The best one is a 20-something tatted dude comes in with his Pit and states his dog is trained to protect him. DENIED! Yes, the deck was stacked against him from the get-go with his outwardly appearance but I feel confident Animal Control would have not denied him if he would have come up with a better 'task'.

Having more regulation is a slippery slope and I waffle on my thoughts. We want to protect PWD to not have to disclose the disability, but but but...there are soooo many fakers! Also, just because a person has a disability having a untrained PITA dog is still wrong and that happens all.the.time. So some kind of public access dog manner testing? I dunno.


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## USAFWife74 (Jan 13, 2013)

I would imagine its tough seeing a little dog like a cocker assist someone with disabilities, but I wouldn't doubt it. Before Ellie is considered a full service dog through my trainer, she's going to have to brace and let me climb up using her body to brace me. I won't try this until she clears her physical exam. 

My friend with her service boxer. I'm not sure how she obtained him, and he does provide service to her, told me the other day her husband took him to Lowes (why her husband would have her dog, I don't know). She laughed because her dog marked on flowers. I was mortified! Those kinds of instances I believe undermine service work! I didn't say anything because I'm just not confrontational in any way.

I agree that there needs to be some sort of regulating...I was reading a law firm website earlier and it was giving out so much misinformation about ESA's and even directing people to these faker websites! Disgusting!




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## USAFWife74 (Jan 13, 2013)

I agree about people coming up with all kinds of reasons their dogs are needed for service! I do believe all service dogs should have to take the public access test before being deemed an official SD, but you're right. It is difficult. SDs should be invisible, unobtrusive, and behaved. I told the salon girl yesterday if someone came in the store, and they weren't handling their dog correctly and it barked at customers, etc, you can tell. This is what we are modeling Ellie to be able to handle. Of course, she is still a service dog In training. As I've mentioned before, I cannot take her places and let her have a bad day. Every outing is carefully considered at this point in her training! There are certain things she must be able to do. A plate of food on the ground, leaving it alone. Not sniffing at people. Not act protective. 


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## JLC44 (Jun 18, 2013)

If you have read the other threads about certification then you know I am against it. There are many reasons why, I don't think it will help much with fakers, there has not been a proposal yet that would actually help and not make it prohibitive to some with disabilities. Then you run into situations like this one in Canada. 

http://medicinehatnews.com/2013/09/news/local-news/technicality-keeping-service-dog-from-being-legal/

If certification comes you can believe ADI will be lobbying hard for this type of restriction, they already have it with the VA.


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## USAFWife74 (Jan 13, 2013)

Yeah....it's a double edged sword. I'd just hate to encounter an undesirable dog doing something towards Ellie who is there to help me. I've read about that happening. I just keep my eyes open and do what I need to do. 

Tonight is the AF ball. People have asked if Ellie is coming and what she's wearing. Lol. I'm not taking her. It's going to be a long evening and hubby will be with me. Since she's still in training, it's a lot to ask of her since it's at a local casino. ?


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## USAFWife74 (Jan 13, 2013)

Although.....come to think of it, my trainer is going to be at the ball tonight too! ?. That would be fun. Maybe next year! Lol


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