# Legalize it?



## cinnamonteal (May 16, 2008)

What do you think? Should marijuana use be legal? Why or why not?

I have never used it, but I feel very strongly that the US should end the prohibition on marijuana. We're dumping tons of money into a losing battle and hurting the security of our nation at the same time. (Hello Mexican drug cartels.) I also feel like it's more benign than alcohol. (Not addictive, no hang over and I've never heard of anyone dying from pot poisoning.)


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

I agree with you. I have smoked it a handful of times, and never enjoyed it, and don't plan to ever again. That said, I don't see how marijuana is illegal, but regular tobacco cigarettes aren't. That is ridiculous to me. This "war on drugs" has gotten out of control IMO. Also, knowing first hand the benefits for cancer patients (well, 2nd hand, I was not the patient) and seeing the ONLY thing that would offer any pain relief, not to mention encourage a chemo patient to eat (munchies anyone?) and not whither away in starvation.... I only see benefits and am glad to live in a state that has legalized medical marijuana.


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## Rob's GRs (Feb 25, 2007)

If they taxed it as much as cigerettes we could probably pay off the national debt.....LOL


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

If everyone who smoked marijuana turned purple, we'd have a lot of purple people LOL ... and not just long-haired hippie types either. 

I do have concerns about children smoking marijuana though, naturally. I think children need to learn how to live life before they start learning how to escape it. 

Legal with regulation is my vote.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

I agree with what you are saying but it is far from a safe drug. I don't have room to list all the effects here but I have worked with so many apathetic couch potato pot heads I definitely think it is bad news. 
It seems people are either psychologically addicted to it or don't like it. I don't think there are very many social pot users, unlike alcohol.


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

To me, marijuana is far less harmful than tobacco... why is tobacco still legal when its proven to be harmful and its effects kill millions per year? I'd rather everyone on earth be a big lazy pothead, than be dying of lung cancer and emphysema, etc.


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## ssories (Jan 20, 2009)

I think it should be legalized for medical use, I have suffered migranes for the last 3 years and have had all sorts of treatments. It was my MOTHER who finally sugested I use to one day, and I did. It worked enough for me to be able to go to sleep and wake up feeling better. Sleep is often the only thing that helps it, alot of painkillers don't work and it progresses so badly I end up in hospitial. It also stops the vomitting and nausea I feel. I am not regular user, but I believe it can make a huge difference on a persons quality of life.


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## Abbydabbydo (Jan 31, 2007)

Yes I think we should legalize it! Good grief, putting people in prison for pot is costing so much!

Of course we don't want kids smoking pot or drinking or smoking cigarettes. And we wish for moderation for everyone!

But a good friend of mine died of esophageal cancer last year and I remember saying "Kenny, please, I can get you some pot and it might help you eat and it will help you feel better and he said, "Marcy, it is illegal and might lead to harder drugs." I said "Kenny, you are taking morphine! Please try to put aside the stereotypes, it can help you." He wouldn't do it and I remember his wife really gave me the cold shoulder after that. There is such a stigma attached to it that is not attached to a drink.

It would not have saved his life of course, but remember the days when a drink was viewed as medicinal?


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## cinnamonteal (May 16, 2008)

Jo Ellen said:


> I do have concerns about children smoking marijuana though, naturally. I think children need to learn how to live life before they start learning how to escape it.
> 
> Legal with regulation is my vote.


I agree 100%. I think it should regulated and taxed and not sold to minors. Same as alcohol and tobacco.


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## cinnamonteal (May 16, 2008)

Debles said:


> I agree with what you are saying but it is far from a safe drug. I don't have room to list all the effects here but I have worked with so many apathetic couch potato pot heads I definitely think it is bad news.
> It seems people are either psychologically addicted to it or don't like it. I don't think there are very many social pot users, unlike alcohol.


Thanks for your perspective, Debles. Do you feel like it is less safe than alcohol? And is it possible that you just don't see or hear about the moderate pot smokers? Maybe the people who use marijuana responsibly and recreationally just don't advertise it because they don't want to get in trouble.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

cinnamonteal said:


> Thanks for your perspective, Debles. Do you feel like it is less safe than alcohol? And is it possible that you just don't see or hear about the moderate pot smokers? Maybe the people who use marijuana responsibly and recreationally just don't advertise it because they don't want to get in trouble.


Probably. I think it is just as bad as alcohol and alcohol is legal. Making alcohol illegal of course didn't work. 

I do think people minimize the effects of marijuana. I don't believe in "reefer madness" LOL but I have seen plenty of wrecked lives. You also can get esophageal cancer from pot. My old using boyfriend did and died still smoking pot at 58.

It would be interesting to see if the problems you guys are discussing went away after legalization. 

Then there would still be cocaine, meth, heroin, ecstacy, black market prescription drugs etc etc etc.

I of course can't be impartial. I have spent 28 years hearing the horror stories and trying to help people put their lives back together. many don't make it.


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## K9 Passion (Jan 2, 2009)

I believe it should be legalized for everyone, but especially for those with chronic pain. I would prefer the THC in a pill form (rather than to smoke) to relieve pain associated my back disability.


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## Abbydabbydo (Jan 31, 2007)

I hear ya Deb. And I don't think the problems would go away if we legalize it or that legalizing pot would be a panacea. I just don't think it is worse than current things that are legal and we are spending way too much putting people away for using or buying it.

I personally am not purple because the last thing I need to be is more hungry.


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## vrocco1 (Feb 25, 2006)

It would really be ironic if they legalized pot, when they are practically making cigarettes illegal!!!! I am a firm believer in do what you want. Legalize and tax as far as I am concerned. I have not used either in twenty years, but if you want to, it's fine with me.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

I am friends with several people who smoke pot on a daily basis. They are intelligent, productive members of society that just... enjoy toking it up every day. I've smoked pot several times but never really gotten much out of it. But to each his or her own. I think we're wasting too much time and money trying to control a substance that probably isn't any worse that alcohol or cigarettes. 

One of my girlfriends from work told me about her grandfather who was dying of prostate cancer. She said she would actually supply him with marijuana because it was the only thing that made his pain tolerable. It's too bad he couldn't get it legally - it would have made a lot more sense, but unfortunately that's not how things work right now.


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## spruce (Mar 13, 2008)

at one time (still?) wasn't it legal in some state(s) to grow/have 2 plants for personal use?

good idea, but the job of protecting them from theft would send ya to prison


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## cinnamonteal (May 16, 2008)

spruce said:


> at one time (still?) wasn't it legal in some state(s) to grow/have 2 plants for personal use?
> 
> good idea, but the job of protecting them from theft would send ya to prison


I haven't heard that. I have heard that at one point, if you had a small number of plants (I think up to 2) it's considered a misdemeanor in CA. More than that and they assumed that you were selling.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

Wonder where Steve is on this thread? LOL

As a person with glaucoma, if it would help me, I think I would use it.


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

Nope. Don't want it legal. I want people think they are doing something illegal and wrong as they screw with their brain.

When I was young I used it alot in highschool and it truely messed me up. Years later way after I stopped, I would go into a "natural" high...made me think I was going nuts


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## K9 Passion (Jan 2, 2009)

kdmarsh said:


> ...I think we're wasting too much time and money trying to control a substance that probably isn't any worse that alcohol or cigarettes...


Heck yeah! That is absolutely right! How many people on the road get killed from people who are high from THC compared to drunk drivers?


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## Fozzybear (Feb 27, 2008)

I am in the minority here but I don't think it should be legalized. I tried it twice when I was younger and it gave me terrible headaches. If you use cigarettes and alcohol as examples I would say it is closer to alcohol since cigarettes dont have a mind altering effect and dont effect your reflexes. I for one think we have to many people who drink and drive and have enough deaths from drinking and driving and we shouldn't be legallizing another product that will produce similar results.


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## Zoeys mom (Apr 26, 2008)

Legal with regulations


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

K9 Passion said:


> Heck yeah! That is absolutely right! How many people on the road get killed from people who are high from THC compared to drunk drivers?


How would we know? Is there a test similar to the blood alcohol test to measure impairment from THC? I'm not being smart; I honestly don't know the answer.

I have never smoked pot, nor did I ever have a desire to. I dated a guy in college who did, but he never used around me.


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## K9 Passion (Jan 2, 2009)

Jackson'sMom said:


> How would we know? Is there a test similar to the blood alcohol test to measure impairment from THC? I'm not being smart; I honestly don't know the answer....


I don't know either. I just wonder because we don't typically hear of people getting in car accidents who were simply high on THC.


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## Finn's Fan (Dec 22, 2007)

Legalize and tax.


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## sharlin (Feb 26, 2007)

Wow - sorry it took me so long to post - had to go prune my plants by the light of the moon. Legal to grow for personal use - illegal to sell. If ya wanna smoke it then at least be willing to spend time growing it!!!! Same penalties as booze if caught driving under influence, illegal under whatever age limits set by your state for booze. Now if you'll excuse me I have an urge for some brownies and Screaming Yellow Zonkers!!!!


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## Loboto-Me (Nov 13, 2008)

My nephew was lost his licence for 24 hrs not long ago for driving under the "influence", and rightly so.

My husband has employees who are "brain dead".... like debbles said, apathetic couch potatoes, because of weed. I will never believe that pot is as harmless as people try to make it out to be. I always cringe when I think of all the people who operate vehicles and machinery while high. How many accidents have there been because of it that we don't even know about? 

Regular tobbaco doesn't make people high, yes it's an addiction but you can still function normally when you've smoked it. 

I agree with people needing to have it medically, I have no problem with that at all. I saw a documentary about that not too long ago, and what a difference it made in some people. I did have a problem with one guy who was supposedly using it for medical reasons... smoking it in the car on his way to work (CRINGE!) For some reason, I felt he should not be allowed to have medical marijuana.. hmmm I wonder why?


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Of course it should be legal! It's much safer than booze IMO.

Legalize it, and tax the hell out of it!


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

Loboto-Me said:


> My nephew was lost his licence for 24 hrs not long ago for driving under the "influence", and rightly so.
> 
> My husband has employees who are "brain dead".... like debbles said, apathetic couch potatoes, because of weed. I will never believe that pot is as harmless as people try to make it out to be. I always cringe when I think of all the people who operate vehicles and machinery while high. How many accidents have there been because of it that we don't even know about?
> 
> ...


I agree its much more harmful then smoking and definately more so then moderate alcohol use. Moderate pot smoking leads to lethargy..apathy....it does mess with your brain in the long-term becaue it takes so long to disapate. I personally had hallucinations twice...very bad experiences...


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## Bock (Jun 23, 2008)

Cop family here so definitely feel like it should stay illegal.

Pot DOES lead to harder drugs. After so much pot the brain does not react the way it did the first few times. That person, looking for that same high, go one to harder drugs or smoking pot more and more, thus affecting either their productivity or gets them on harder drugs. 

Regardless, it is illegal, it will remain illegal so....:311taunt-:311taunt-:311taunt-:311taunt-


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## Loboto-Me (Nov 13, 2008)

Lucky's mom said:


> I personally had hallucinations twice...very bad experiences...


Same thing happened to me. Hubster and I went outside to have a little toke after years of not smoking up. I was never a big toker, I think I had maybe 5 in my whole teen life. This time, I had 2 puffs, and I went coo-coo! Never again! I thought I was dying, I couldn't catch my breath etc. That was about 25 yrs ago. Give me a nice relaxing glass of wine .


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

Loboto-Me said:


> Same thing happened to me. Hubster and I went outside to have a little toke after years of not smoking up. I was never a big toker, I think I had maybe 5 in my whole teen life. This time, I had 2 puffs, and I went coo-coo! Never again! I thought I was dying, I couldn't catch my breath etc. That was about 25 yrs ago. Give me a nice relaxing glass of wine .


Yep...coo coo is pretty accurate. I can't describe my first experience accurately...it was so weird...but in short, I ended up convulsively throwing up all night once the "waves" started "pulling" and "twisting' at my stomach.

the other time it felt exactly like I was breathing in vinager. Boy that was not good and finally my last experience with the stuff.


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## Loboto-Me (Nov 13, 2008)

Bock said:


> Cop family here so definitely feel like it should stay illegal.
> 
> Pot DOES lead to harder drugs. After so much pot the brain does not react the way it did the first few times. That person, looking for that same high, go one to harder drugs or smoking pot more and more, thus affecting either their productivity or gets them on harder drugs.
> 
> Regardless, it is illegal, it will remain illegal so....:311taunt-:311taunt-:311taunt-:311taunt-


Well according to some of the "winners" that workED for my husband, what you say is true.

They eventually lost their livelihood because they started doing it more often, then during their lunch hours. 

Actually, I have a terrible story. My husband builds homes. One of his workers (will call him W1) came back from lunch and started picking up his tools to start up again. Another worker (will call him W2) had just cut a hole on the main floor to go down to the basement. W2 just finished telling the W1 to be careful because of the hole. W1 acknowledged the hole and the piece of plywood, turned around and what did he do? He step right into the hole and fell into the basement. He broke his neck! He wasn't right after that incident, but guess what? We came to find out that he and another co-worker went and smoked up at lunch hour. 

Now back to what I started saying, they started smoking it during lunch, lose an afternoon of work because hubster will not have intoxicated people operating machinery (especially after that incident). Then the same guys who would smoke more often would "graduate" to coke. We had 2 employees that lost their job because of their "graduations". Actually one of them was someone that my husband took under his wing.... he really liked the guy. The guy was a great worker so hubster gave him way too many chances. This guy progressed and finally hubster had to "lay him off". Too many missing work days, too many excuses, too many sick days. He now lives from house to house, can't keep a job, and hubster feels terrible for him... unfortunately, hubster was an enabler.


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

My boyfriend went to jail many years ago for possession of less than one ounce of marijuana (he no longer smokes weed now.. military kinda frowns upon it haha.. instead he replaced that habit with cigarettes with IMO are far worse and deadly and GROSS, yet for some reason still legal). He spent 6 months in jail. For less than an ounce. To me, that just seems like such a gross waste of tax payer money... it was a first time offense too.


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## Bock (Jun 23, 2008)

missmarstar said:


> My boyfriend went to jail many years ago for possession of less than one ounce of marijuana (he no longer smokes weed now.. military kinda frowns upon it haha.. instead he replaced that habit with cigarettes with IMO are far worse and deadly and GROSS, yet for some reason still legal). He spent 6 months in jail. For less than an ounce. To me, that just seems like such a gross waste of tax payer money... it was a first time offense too.


Key phrase there would be "many years ago". Now a days, especially for first time offense, they will just either write you a ticket or put you on probation.

I don't believe cigarettes are worse because they don't lead to other things like pot often does. I think both are gross and I believe cigaretts ARE more deadly but ONLY because SO many people do it, and do it often. If people smoked a few packs of weed a day I bet they would be dying just as much as those who smoke cigarettes.


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## cinnamonteal (May 16, 2008)

Bock said:


> Regardless, it is illegal, it will remain illegal so....:311taunt-:311taunt-:311taunt-:311taunt-


We'll see. The depression ended prohibition. There's been speculation that our current economic woes will end marijuana prohibition.


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## Bock (Jun 23, 2008)

cinnamonteal said:


> We'll see. The depression ended prohibition. There's been speculation that our current economic woes will end marijuana prohibition.


 
True that!! I would argue thought that the depression of the past vs the depression (or recession) of today are two totally different things.

Also, the thing with prohibition is that alcohol WAS legal and then bam! illegal. Weed has always (as far as modern laws) been illegal, nobody knows any different.


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

Just saw this a minute ago

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29374351/


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

FYI, medical marijuana is legalized in 10 states now I believe. I had no idea it was that many!

Oddly enough (sarcastic) the states are all more liberal-leaning states.


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## Bock (Jun 23, 2008)

Funny thing is the DEA is still busting those medical marijuana grow houses


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

If I needed/wanted medical marijuana, I think I would have a couple plants and grow it myself.


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## Traz (Jan 19, 2009)

I'm a NO here. People are not responsible enough not to drink & drive, you think they will be to driving under the influence of marijuana? I don't think you can put it in the same catagory as cigarettes, Marijuana is a hallucinogen, just what we need on the roads. I have lost enough friends to under the influence drivers. One, a nurse I worked with that was killed on her way home from work by someone on the wrong side of a divided road. 
For medical use it should be regulated the same as narcotics.


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## Celeigh (Nov 29, 2007)

My mother was a probation officer for nearly 40 years and saw thousands of drug abusers. In her opinion, you would be hard pressed to find a coke, heroin, meth, etc. addict who didn't start with pot. That is certainly not to say that all pot users move on to harder drugs, but why make it easier?

There are also many studies that show that for habitual pot users, their mental maturity is arrested at the age at which they started smoking it (for many that's high school). In that respect it is more dangerous than alcohol and tobacco.


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## Pudden (Dec 28, 2008)

I think it should be absolutely legalized for medicinal purposes and should be available on prescription like any other beneficial drug.

Beyond that, I'd be careful. I wouldn't want it to be freely available like tobacco or alcohol. I'm a bleedin' heart hippie in all other ways, but I wish there was a way to wean humanity off those addictive, mind-altering and health destroying drugs we love so much. Our region has a huge drinking and smoking problem. I wish I could cure them all with one wave of my omnipotent hand...oh well

thinkin' about it, the Pudden would be a hopeless pothead if she could. She's got the personality for it..


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## rictic (Feb 16, 2009)

wow what a can of worms.

pot has many long term phsycological effects.

paranoia, and flasbacks being just two.

the stronger forms such as skunk are mixed with other drugs.
some is mixed with heroin.

how on earth are they going to regulate pot?

ok, amsterdam has it's coffee houses and many people use these and there are all types of weed available.

but you really need to read a proper study on the struff to appredciate it's dangers.
and believe me it is dangerous.

comparing it to alcohol is a no no really as alcohol is produced under sterile conditions and such and has limits on the strength and so on. disregarding moonshine.

pot is and will forever be made stronger and stronger.

as for mexican cartels their money is in coke.

lets make that legal too, and crystal meth, and pcb, and heroin.

pot is dangerous, very dangerous.

the mental problems and drug escalation relating to it are enormous.


http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/evidence99/marijuana/Health_1.html


http://www.marijuana-addiction.net/marijuana-dangers.htm

http://www.acde.org/common/Marijana.htm


to advocate the legalisation of cannabis is madness. governments are already trying to clamp down on smoking and drink. realising the effects and health issues.

lets add more and turn everyone into pot smoking zombies unable to go through the day with all their faculties.

what a stupid idea.


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## rictic (Feb 16, 2009)

missmarstar said:


> Just saw this a minute ago
> 
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29374351/


 
there is no way on gods green earth anybody would agree to pay a hefty tax on what they can get for $20.00.

they aint gonna pay 40.00 for the same or even a weaker controlled derivative.

these people trying to advocate pot do it for personal reasons, not sensible ones.

what a pie in the sky proposal.


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## rictic (Feb 16, 2009)

Abbydabbydo said:


> Yes I think we should legalize it! Good grief, putting people in prison for pot is costing so much!
> 
> 
> lets make murder legal too, and any other crime that costs us money to punish the offender.
> ...


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Um, just because if pot was legal some of us might smoke a joint every few months doesn't mean we think murder should be legal. 

I wouldn't ever be a pot head zombie... and if I DID want to, I'd be one whether it was legal or not, since it is so easy to get it anyway.


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## NuttinButGoldens (Jan 10, 2009)

I don't partake in the weed, but I know this.

There are a lot of legal substances that are a HELL of a lot more damaging than this.


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## NuttinButGoldens (Jan 10, 2009)

That, there is the secret. If corporate america and the government could ever figure out a way to profitize and tax it, it would become legal overnight!





cinnamonteal said:


> I agree 100%. I think it should regulated and taxed and not sold to minors. Same as alcohol and tobacco.


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## NuttinButGoldens (Jan 10, 2009)

The question is, how many of those cases were caused more by the illegality of the substance rather than the substance itself?



Debles said:


> Probably. I think it is just as bad as alcohol and alcohol is legal. Making alcohol illegal of course didn't work.
> 
> I do think people minimize the effects of marijuana. I don't believe in "reefer madness" LOL but I have seen plenty of wrecked lives. You also can get esophageal cancer from pot. My old using boyfriend did and died still smoking pot at 58.
> 
> ...


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

NuttinButGoldens said:


> The question is, how many of those cases were caused more by the illegality of the substance rather than the substance itself?


None were caused by it being illegal.


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## NuttinButGoldens (Jan 10, 2009)

Again, I don't partake in the weed but my question remains:

Are these symptoms of the substance itself, or the _illegality _of the substance?

I've always wondered about this.

Comparing the average big US city to Amsterdam may provide some insight on this.



Bock said:


> Cop family here so definitely feel like it should stay illegal.
> 
> Pot DOES lead to harder drugs. After so much pot the brain does not react the way it did the first few times. That person, looking for that same high, go one to harder drugs or smoking pot more and more, thus affecting either their productivity or gets them on harder drugs.
> 
> Regardless, it is illegal, it will remain illegal so....:311taunt-:311taunt-:311taunt-:311taunt-


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## PeanutsMom (Oct 14, 2007)

I don't think it will really ever be legalized due to the amount of money collected from offenders on probation or fines associated with it. The gateway drug idea doesn't strike me as it does others because there are so many other ways people start out. I haven't checked statistics nationally or anything but here where I am prescription drug addiction is a more pressing issue. At least the pot heads aren't killing people, they may think about it, but in the end getting off the couch just isn't worth their effort. Before I had kids I was a typical video game playing, non motivated pot head. We did nothing but sit around eating and playing Tekkon on my friends playstation. It may sound odd but that was the only time I'd really eat. I've always struggled with being severely underweight, not anymore of course. lol It doesn't really matter much to me, it won't happen anyway. What's that other stuff they got now? I saw it on Dr.Phil, can't remember what it's called (pregnancy brain not past pot head brain is the culprit).


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## moverking (Feb 26, 2007)

sharlin said:


> Wow - sorry it took me so long to post - had to go prune my plants by the light of the moon. Legal to grow for personal use - illegal to sell. If ya wanna smoke it then at least be willing to spend time growing it!!!! Same penalties as booze if caught driving under influence, illegal under whatever age limits set by your state for booze. Now if you'll excuse me I have an urge for some brownies and Screaming Yellow Zonkers!!!!


I'm with Steve :smokin: lol










OMG, you liked these too???????


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## Bock (Jun 23, 2008)

NuttinButGoldens said:


> Again, I don't partake in the weed but my question remains:
> 
> Are these symptoms of the substance itself, or the _illegality _of the substance?
> 
> ...


 
Substance. That substance doesn't do the same thing for people as it might've when they first started. This leads to more and more pot smoking or harder drugs to feel that same feeling.

Also whoever said something about the mexican cartels-those cartels aren't dealing pot they are dealing cocaine, heroine, etc.


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## cinnamonteal (May 16, 2008)

Bock said:


> Substance. That substance doesn't do the same thing for people as it might've when they first started. This leads to more and more pot smoking or harder drugs to feel that same feeling.
> 
> Also whoever said something about the mexican cartels-those cartels aren't dealing pot they are dealing cocaine, heroine, etc.


That was me. I read that they smuggle pot as well as cocaine, meth and heroine. (They also grow it here in CA in our national forests. http://www.sacbee.com/288/story/1413222.html) So no, legalizing marijuana wouldn't do away with that problem entirely, but it would be a step in the right direction.

I stand by what I said about the US dumping way too much money into a losing drug war. And I'm sorry, but I really don't buy the gateway drug theory. I know plenty of occasional pot smokers that have never considered harder drugs. Yes, most people who try hard drugs try pot first, but I believe that the interest and experimental attitude that leads to hard drug use would still exist and lead to addiction, etc. with or without pot. And according to a 1993 study, cigarette smoking is a better indicator of hard drug use than pot. (I'm having a little trouble finding the full text of this article, but if you're interested I can request it from the UC library.)


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

cinnamonteal said:


> And I'm sorry, but I really don't buy the gateway drug theory. I know plenty of occasional pot smokers that have never considered harder drugs. Yes, most people who try hard drugs try pot first, but I believe that the interest and experimental attitude that leads to hard drug use would still exist and lead to addiction, etc. with or without pot.



I completely agree! I was trying to figure out how to say what I was thinking, and you did it so well here. Pot smoking was as common as, if not more so, alcohol in the dorms where I lived for 2 years.


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## Faith's mommy (Feb 26, 2007)

the "gateway" idea has been disproven so often i cringe whenever i still see it as an arguement. think of the millions of folks who were pot users in the 60's and 70's (those **** hippies!  ) and what percentage of them went on to lead normal, productive lives vs those who went on to hard core drug use?

it's silly to me that they've got cops chasing people with an ounce of pot in their pockets when there are just such other HUGE problems for them to be focused on.

legalize it, control distribution and tax it


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

I have a question. If it was legalized and regulated like other crops, do you think it would still have all the hallucinogen effects? Not saying it should be legalized but just think of all the things the taxes could go to wiping out the debt this country has. 
I think that people that smoke dope and drive under the influence dont care if it is legal or illegal, they will still do it. Just like a person that drinks alcohol. And the people that are big pot smokers and then go to hard drugs would still that if it was legal or illegal. Not everyone that smokes pot become a drug addict, there is usually another problem that makes them go to higher drugs. 

We could use the prison space to keep the violent offenders, murders, child molesters in there for their full term instead of letting them out for good behavior or making room for overcrowding without all the minor drug offenders. Because here they still do get busted for small amounts even if they dont some other places. How many times have we seen on tv where someone got out of jail early (that really shouldnt have been released) and they committed another crime killing or hurting someone else. 
I can say that I have smoked it in the past like 25 years ago and I didnt become a drug addict. Just smoked a couple of times a month for a short time. It was fun while it lasted but I moved on. I would have given anything to be able to give my Mother some relief from her pain with cancer with some pot because I read alot of literature that said it could help, but I would have gone to jail if we were busted and I was to scared to take that chance.


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

BeauShel said:


> I think that people that smoke dope and drive under the influence dont care if it is legal or illegal, they will still do it. Just like a person that drinks alcohol.



It's my observation that most people smoking weed are more interested in sitting on their couch and eating pizza than getting in their car and driving around


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## Fozzybear (Feb 27, 2008)

I have already voted no but want to offer another thought. We as a country should hopefully learn from the past. How much money are we spending on lung cancer and other diseases that are linked to cigarettes in treatments, surgeries, clinical trials? I would hope that if we knew now what we knew then, in regards to the problems it causes, maybe cigarettes would have been made Illegal way back when. In any event why would we make something legal that may have similar health risks to cigarettes but also a hallucinogen.


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

Fozzybear said:


> I have already voted no but want to offer another thought. We as a country should hopefully learn from the past. How much money are we spending on lung cancer and other diseases that are linked to cigarettes in treatments, surgeries, clinical trials? I would hope that if we knew now what we knew then, in regards to the problems it causes, maybe cigarettes would have been made Illegal way back when. In any event why would we make something legal that may have similar health risks to cigarettes but also a hallucinogen.


Then using your argument, why aren't cigarettes made illegal now?


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## cinnamonteal (May 16, 2008)

Fozzybear said:


> I have already voted no but want to offer another thought. We as a country should hopefully learn from the past. How much money are we spending on lung cancer and other diseases that are linked to cigarettes in treatments, surgeries, clinical trials? I would hope that if we knew now what we knew then, in regards to the problems it causes, maybe cigarettes would have been made Illegal way back when. In any event why would we make something legal that may have similar health risks to cigarettes but also a hallucinogen.


I don't like cigarettes, but I don't think they should be illegal. Are we going to outlaw everything that's bad for you? No more saturated fats or refined sugar? 

I just don't think taking away peoples rights in order to "protect" them is okay. I think that competent adults should be able to make these sorts of decisions for themselves, so long as they aren't hurting anyone else. (I don't think exposing others to second hand smoke is okay and I'm all for banning cigarettes from restaurants, etc.)


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

And those who willfully engage in activities known to be dangerous to their health should be fully responsible for the medical costs arising from those behaviors. I don't want my health insurance premiums going up dramatically because some dude on a motorcycle decides it isn't cool to wear a helmet, and then suffers severe brain damage in an accident. I also don't want to have to pay for cancer treatments and prolonged hospital stays for someone who chooses to smoke.

People always want the "freedom" to do whatever they please, then expect either the government or others to pick up the tab when things go south. Along with freedom comes personal responsibility -- something this country is sorely lacking.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Our society is so screwed up , it doesn't matter what they use to get high. People huff hair spray, oven cleaner, anything you can huff, they'll try. No matter how many brain cells it kills.
Legalizing pot is a band aid for our whole society problem.


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## cinnamonteal (May 16, 2008)

Debles said:


> Our society is so screwed up , it doesn't matter what they use to get high. People huff hair spray, oven cleaner, anything you can huff, they'll try. No matter how many brain cells it kills.
> Legalizing pot is a band aid for our whole society problem.


I'd rather people got high on pot than caustic solvents.

But regardless, what do you see as our "whole society problem" and how would you fix it? I totally agree that we have issues, but I think that's a separate topic. I don't see legal pot as a magical cure all. But I do think it would help more than it would hurt.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Too many people in this country have a hole inside them. They try to fill it by doing drugs, alcohol, shopping, sex, unhealthy relationships, eating, not eating, gambling, keeping up with the Jones's, whatever.

I don't know what the answer is. Personally I think it is loving and respecting yourself through some kind of spirituality, what ever that is. But I came to that realization after the alcohol, drugs, not eating, eating quit working for me. Some people die still trying to fill the whole.


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## Bock (Jun 23, 2008)

Regardless if you buy it or not, pot DOES lead to hard drugs... I'm not saying EVERYONE who smokes pot will go to harder drugs but it is an issue. Also, the effects of marijuana (whether you had this effect or not) are not safe for those around people who are stoned. Now before you say alcohol does the same thing-it takes quite a few drinks to accomplish the same sensation as marijuana and even then marijuana still provides effects that alcohol does not produce.

Also, for those of you who say you used to smoke back in the day. If you read the website down below, there is proof that the pot today is MUCH stronger. the THC level in the 70's was less than 1 %, and now it is over 8%.s

Here is my proof: http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/marijuana_position.html#marijuana_dangerous.


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## Gwen (Aug 9, 2007)

missmarstar said:


> To me, marijuana is far less harmful than tobacco... why is tobacco still legal when its proven to be harmful and its effects kill millions per year? I'd rather everyone on earth be a big lazy pothead, than be dying of lung cancer and emphysema, etc.



Hey, if the government ever got hold of it, they'd add lots of chemicals and marijuana smokers would join the health problems of smokers! My vote is to keep the government out of as much as possible - they just mess it up!


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## AlanK (Jun 28, 2008)

IMHO
Yep smoking pot leads to stronger drugs alright....when I quit smoking weed back in 1978....I got hooked on nicotine... a legal drug that our government reaps much tax revinue from. Just kicked that habit back in December. 

As soon as I retire and don't need to worry about my random "company policy" drug tests...I might just burn one once in a while.


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## cinnamonteal (May 16, 2008)

I'm seeing a whole lot of _implied_ causality (on the DEA site) but no real evidence that pot use leads to hard drug use. It's rather dangerous to assume causality when all you really have is a correlation. 

As long as we're citing clearly biased sources, here's what NORML says about pot being a gateway drug. http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=3418#question7



Bock said:


> Regardless if you buy it or not, pot DOES lead to hard drugs... I'm not saying EVERYONE who smokes pot will go to harder drugs but it is an issue. Also, the effects of marijuana (whether you had this effect or not) are not safe for those around people who are stoned. Now before you say alcohol does the same thing-it takes quite a few drinks to accomplish the same sensation as marijuana and even then marijuana still provides effects that alcohol does not produce.
> 
> Also, for those of you who say you used to smoke back in the day. If you read the website down below, there is proof that the pot today is MUCH stronger. the THC level in the 70's was less than 1 %, and now it is over 8%.s
> 
> Here is my proof: http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/marijuana_position.html#marijuana_dangerous.


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## Bock (Jun 23, 2008)

cinnamonteal said:


> I'm seeing a whole lot of _implied_ causality (on the DEA site) but no real evidence that pot use leads to hard drug use. It's rather dangerous to assume causality when all you really have is a correlation.
> 
> As long as we're citing clearly biased sources, here's what NORML says about pot being a gateway drug. http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=3418#question7


Well yeah of course it's biased but this is a government organization with much more resources than just your average group. Sorry, but I'm going to take the government, as well as personal testimony from many law enforcement officers, on this one. But like others have said-to each their own!!


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## 3 goldens (Sep 30, 2005)

I am a real stick in the mud and have never tried any of the illegal stuff....never ven considered it or wanted to. Heck, i am reluctnt to even take legal drugs like pain killers i did smoke cigarettes for 28 years, but had my last one june. 30, 1999. And i have never been into alchol either--get ge past the stink of beer or whiskey. But i did enjoy the occasionl colorado bulldog on the gambling boat.

I think pot should be okay for medical use, however.


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

I think that pot basically takes people from "reality"....and if you can use pot to wisk you away from life's trouble and cares, then its easier to use other drugs as well...like crack or meth. 

They all do the same thing in different ways. But some drugs are a little more intimidating then others. Marajuana isn't really scary. After you handle that, then lsd (do people even do that anymore?) is less frightening and easier to try. (If it sounds like I'm talking from experience here....)


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

Alan, congrats on quitting smoking.. 

Just out of curiosity (and you may have well already said so, but I'm too lazy to read back and look) but Lucky's Mom and Bock, I know you are anti-legalization for recreational use, but what are your thoughts on medical marijuana with a prescription?


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

missmarstar said:


> Alan, congrats on quitting smoking..
> 
> Just out of curiosity (and you may have well already said so, but I'm too lazy to read back and look) but Lucky's Mom and Bock, I know you are anti-legalization for recreational use, but what are your thoughts on medical marijuana with a prescription?


Off the top of my head...no. For me the stuff had no beneficial effects. I have trouble believing that medical marajuana is really beneficial, especially in the long-term....I wonder if the whole medical thing is more of a political manipulation. 

But, that's just my opinon....I don't know a whole lot about it.


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## Bock (Jun 23, 2008)

missmarstar said:


> Alan, congrats on quitting smoking..
> 
> Just out of curiosity (and you may have well already said so, but I'm too lazy to read back and look) but Lucky's Mom and Bock, I know you are anti-legalization for recreational use, but what are your thoughts on medical marijuana with a prescription?


Personally, I don't see the need for marijuana for any reason at all no matter what. HOWEVER, if someone has some LOW THC marijuana (as in heavily government regulation) and has the mental capacity to take any and all cautions then that does not hurt me one bit, so I could honestly care less if the glaucoma patient smokes a joint here or there.

It's when people start growing and selling and stupid people start getting a hold of it that it becomes a danger IMO.


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

A friend of mine from high school died of cancer a few years ago. She never did drugs, never smoked cigarettes, and I could probably count on 2 hands the number of times she got drunk on two hands. When she got her medical marijuana prescription I almost laughed because her smoking weed was ridiculous to me. To her, it was the only thing that got her through post-chemo.. it was the only thing that made her have any semblance of an appetite.. and gave her enough relief to be able to sleep through the night without feeling nauseous and ill. I'm a pretty liberal thinking person (23 year old socal native.. what do you expect?) but I DO understand people's reasons for not wanting marijuana legalized.. but seeing firsthand the benefits of medical marijuana, I can say without a doubt that it is an effective, pain relieving, appetite-increasing treatment at such a critical time for cancer patients (not even talking about the benefits to people suffering from countless other ailments, though there are many that come to mind) when they often waste away to nothing because they can't eat. My friend did lose her battle with cancer... and I'm not even sure why I've written all this.. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind or view on medical marijuana. Just I guess trying to show that it's not just a "political manipulation".. some medical marijuana users, like my friend, would probably never have tried weed in their lives.. I'm glad that my state has legalized medical marijuana so that the last months of her life could be somewhat bearable for her.


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

missmarstar said:


> A friend of mine from high school died of cancer a few years ago. She never did drugs, never smoked cigarettes, and I could probably count on 2 hands the number of times she got drunk on two hands. When she got her medical marijuana prescription I almost laughed because her smoking weed was ridiculous to me. To her, it was the only thing that got her through post-chemo.. it was the only thing that made her have any semblance of an appetite.. and gave her enough relief to be able to sleep through the night without feeling nauseous and ill. I'm a pretty liberal thinking person (23 year old socal native.. what do you expect?) but I DO understand people's reasons for not wanting marijuana legalized.. but seeing firsthand the benefits of medical marijuana, I can say without a doubt that it is an effective, pain relieving, appetite-increasing treatment at such a critical time for cancer patients (not even talking about the benefits to people suffering from countless other ailments, though there are many that come to mind) when they often waste away to nothing because they can't eat. My friend did lose her battle with cancer... and I'm not even sure why I've written all this.. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind or view on medical marijuana. Just I guess trying to show that it's not just a "political manipulation".. some medical marijuana users, like my friend, would probably never have tried weed in their lives.. I'm glad that my state has legalized medical marijuana so that the last months of her life could be somewhat bearable for her.


Well you got me there. Especially the appetite aspect. I can actually relate...being underweight and frustrated that I have no appetite. There is NO DRUG that I'm aware of that can get that appetite going....except pot.


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## moverking (Feb 26, 2007)

Lucky's mom said:


> Well you got me there. Especially the appetite aspect. I can actually relate...being underweight and frustrated that I have no appetite. There is NO DRUG that I'm aware of that can get that appetite going....except pot.


http://www.megacees.com/megace-es.html

My mom (all 80 lbs of her) used this with good results.....


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

Lucky's mom said:


> Well you got me there. Especially the appetite aspect. I can actually relate...being underweight and frustrated that I have no appetite. There is NO DRUG that I'm aware of that can get that appetite going....except pot.


Now if you were a dog, we would tell you to have your Mommy to make you the satin balls. LOL I wish I had that problem, I look at fattening food and I can gain a pound.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I think it's safe to say that many users of hard drugs may have also tried or used weed. But, that does not mean that all users of weed will use other drugs.

To me it's like saying... because all Golden Retrievers are dogs, that all dogs must be Golden Retrievers. In fact, only a small perecentage of dogs are, indeed, Golden Retrievers.

You have to look at all sides, before making an assumption. The VAST majority of people I know who use weed would never ever use hard drugs.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

I am all for medical use.


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## mm03gn (Sep 24, 2008)

http://listverse.com/science/top-10-common-myths-about-cannabis/


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

I took a drugs class a couple years ago that was very unbiased and interesting discussion on recreational drugs, as well as legal prescription drugs, and their effects on the body. Really interesting class!!


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

mm03gn said:


> http://listverse.com/science/top-10-common-myths-about-cannabis/


You can't believe everything you read. 
From my own personal experience, people I have worked with and people I have known, I find most of those "myths" to be false.
I realize I may have worked and known the 1 % of people who have those problems but that is my reality with pot.


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## Bock (Jun 23, 2008)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> You have to look at all sides, before making an assumption. The VAST majority of people I know who use weed would never ever use hard drugs.


I hear what you sayingm, but the VAST majority of people I know of who use weed do in fact use harder drugs, break in to houses in order to steal things so that can get more weed, DUI and cause wreck, etc. So like I said, I understand what you're saying but that's also not the only side.


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## cinnamonteal (May 16, 2008)

Bock said:


> I hear what you sayingm, but the VAST majority of people I know of who use weed do in fact use harder drugs, break in to houses in order to steal things so that can get more weed, DUI and cause wreck, etc. So like I said, I understand what you're saying but that's also not the only side.


I wonder if it's a regional thing. Here in California, there's a pretty accepting attitude towards pot and I think that allows responsible people to use/be more open about their pot use. Here the crime is generally associated with meth use, if there's any drug association at all.


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

cinnamonteal said:


> I wonder if it's a regional thing. Here in California, there's a pretty accepting attitude towards pot and I think that allows responsible people to use/be more open about their pot use. Here the crime is generally associated with meth use, if there's any drug association at all.



Definitely agree with this. As I said, pot smoking was almost more prevalent than drinking in the dorms at my college. The RA on my floor knew there was pot smoking going on in one particular suite (my dorm was composed of 8 suites of 8 people per floor) almost all the time (marijuana prescription holder lived there, and of course his roommates reaped the benefits) and generally shrugged it off... but you better believe if she knew of other drug usage going on, it would be busted up for sure. Pot is just not seen as a serious drug around here.

The big "problem drug" on campus was cocaine, which was WAY LESS commonly used than weed, but obviously much more cracked down on by law enforcement and school officials.


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## Bock (Jun 23, 2008)

I'm from TX, just currently in NWA, and pot while not looked at as the root of all evil, is still looked down upon. But add that on to the fact that my mom is a narcotics officer and my dad is a former police officer, I have a biased opinion about people who do drugs (no offense to anyone on this board who has smoked weed, as I'm talking about people I personally know)


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## rictic (Feb 16, 2009)

regarding coke, i have read that a vast percentage of banknotes have coke residue on them.

it is more prevelant than people think.


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## Rhapsody in Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Bock said:


> Cop family here so definitely feel like it should stay illegal.
> 
> Pot DOES lead to harder drugs. After so much pot the brain does not react the way it did the first few times. That person, looking for that same high, go one to harder drugs or smoking pot more and more, thus affecting either their productivity or gets them on harder drugs.
> 
> Regardless, it is illegal, it will remain illegal so....:311taunt-:311taunt-:311taunt-:311taunt-


I agree. People that I knew from the 70's that I guess you could say were "burnouts" are very old "burnouts" today who have had other problems holding jobs, having a family life, and just living. It is pretty pathetic. It is a depressant and I have never understood why someone would knowingly take such a risk with their mental health. I was against it as a young person and am very much against it today.


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## Sophie's slave (Jul 1, 2007)

I'm late to the discussion, but wanted to add my two cents. I'm all for legalizing marijuana and I've seen the benefits first hand. My father suffered from severe pain related to metastatic lung cancer in his bones and one of the only things that would help dull the pain was marijuana. I also worked for an AIDS service organization for 13 years and many of our clients smoked for pain relief, successfully. 

And I agree, tax it.


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## cinnamonteal (May 16, 2008)

I recently came across this report endorsed by leading economists that advocates legalizing marijuana: http://www.prohibitioncosts.org/

The gist of it is that by legalizing marijuana, we (US local, state and federal governments) would save $7.7 billion a year and through taxation would bring in an additional amount between $2.4 billion and $6.2 billion (6.2 if it were taxed like cigarettes and alcohol).


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## Bock (Jun 23, 2008)

cinnamonteal said:


> I recently came across this report endorsed by leading economists that advocates legalizing marijuana: http://www.prohibitioncosts.org/
> 
> The gist of it is that by legalizing marijuana, we (US local, state and federal governments) would save $7.7 billion a year and through taxation would bring in an additional amount between $2.4 billion and $6.2 billion (6.2 if it were taxed like cigarettes and alcohol).


We could also keep marijuana illegal, and get rid of welfare, medicaid, and quit sending billions of dollars to countries who don't like us and be just fine!! Sorry, for turning this political!!!!!!:doh::doh:


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## PeanutsMom (Oct 14, 2007)

Bock said:


> *We could also keep marijuana illegal, and get rid of welfare, medicaid,* and quit sending billions of dollars to countries who don't like us and be just fine!! Sorry, for turning this political!!!!!!:doh::doh:


Yeah, let those pesky poor people just fade away. Survival of the fittest right?:doh:


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## cinnamonteal (May 16, 2008)

Bock said:


> We could also keep marijuana illegal, and get rid of welfare, medicaid, and quit sending billions of dollars to countries who don't like us and be just fine!! Sorry, for turning this political!!!!!!:doh::doh:


No worries. It's a political topic.

I agree that we need some changes with our welfare, medicare, unemployment, etc etc. But I think it would be wrong to ignore any _genuine_ needs of the people. 

As I see it, our problems as a nation run so deep that there is no one answer for them. Ending marijuana prohibition, reforming our social services, etc. are all part of the solution.


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## Bock (Jun 23, 2008)

cinnamonteal said:


> No worries. It's a political topic.
> 
> I agree that we need some changes with our welfare, medicare, unemployment, etc etc. But I think it would be wrong to ignore any _genuine_ needs of the people.
> 
> As I see it, our problems as a nation run so deep that there is no one answer for them. Ending marijuana prohibition, reforming our social services, etc. are all part of the solution.





PeanutsMom said:


> Yeah, let those pesky poor people just fade away. Survival of the fittest right?:doh:


I also agree that there are truly genuine people who really need help and I am ALL for that!! However, there are so many abuses to the system it's ridiculous. A great example is octomom (mom who had 8 kids when she was already on welfare!). I was over-exaggerating to make point that I don't think that just because we can make money off of it is a good argument for the legalization of marijuana. The real question to ask is Is it safe for society as a whole?

Peanutsmom...I'm not that extreme, I just don't see why marijuana should be legalized in order to make money off of it, when enough of my families money is being taken in order to be re-distributed when a large portion of those receiving aid do not deserve it (I do believe some do deserve though so this is not a blanket statement). I would rather raise the requirements for aid higher (as in much more regulation and checks) and pay out less this way and have more money for roads, military, police, etc. rather than legalize marijuana so that the governmnet can pay its' bills.


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## kobusclan6 (Feb 10, 2009)

Heck no! Keep it illegal! Parents have enough trouble keeping kids away from alcohol and ciggarettes, which aren't illegal! There are enough things out there keeping childrens heads outta books and in the clouds instead! We don't need to make things easier for them! Its just like this talk of lowering the drinking age??? :doh: Have they bumbed thier heads? I would increase the age to 25...not lower it to 18! Don't they realize that YES..even though 21yr olds are buying it for their 18 yr old friends (and younger!) but if the age is lowered...then the 18yr olds will be buying it for their friends...which are in the 13 and up age group! HELLO???? Whats next? Let em drive when they are five? Geeze!


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

The drinking thing is a whole other issue. Someone can vote for the president of the United States.. they can die in a war serving in our military.. but heaven forbid they want to have a beer.


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## Ardeagold (Feb 26, 2007)

If kids drink and smoke...they use other things too. And they're not legal things. Some get addicted, some don't. I don't think marijuana leads to other drug use any more than taking aspirin leads to oxycodone use. Sometimes it does...sometimes it doesn't.

I'm for legalizing it. I'm for legalizing ALL drugs. Just think what would happen to the street drug industry if that happened? It would go away. And so would the billions of dollars we spend on trying to win a war against it...which is unwinable. That money could go into healthcare programs for addicts. 

It should be taxed and sold only in controlled "drug stores" (sorry...play on words).


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## Bock (Jun 23, 2008)

Ardeagold said:


> I'm for legalizing it. I'm for legalizing ALL drugs. Just think what would happen to the street drug industry if that happened? It would go away. And so would the billions of dollars we spend on trying to win a war against it...which is unwinable. That money could go into healthcare programs for addicts.


Although I disagree, I do respect your opinion,however I must comment on this. Why in the world would we put money towards healthcare programs for addicts when it was there choice to use drugs in the first place? 

If all drugs were to be legalized, the money could at least go toward something beneficial for those who made the "smarter" choice to stay drug-free such as education, police and fire protection, roads, water plants, etc. I just don't see why any money should be spent on those who are addicted to drugs since they are the ones who put themselves there.


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## ReleaseTheHounds (Feb 12, 2009)

I agree Bock. I'd take it further though. Refuse any medical care for people who are obese and are then hospitalized with heart problems or any other problems. Why should the government pay for any help towards these people. THey put themselves there right? 

Or people that get cancer because of smoking or eating too much red meat. I'm tired of these people clogging our hospitals. Throw them in the gutter along with people that give themselves diabetes. Ingrates!


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Bock said:


> Although I disagree, I do respect your opinion,however I must comment on this. Why in the world would we put money towards healthcare programs for addicts when it was there choice to use drugs in the first place?
> 
> If all drugs were to be legalized, the money could at least go toward something beneficial for those who made the "smarter" choice to stay drug-free such as education, police and fire protection, roads, water plants, etc. I just don't see why any money should be spent on those who are addicted to drugs since they are the ones who put themselves there.


That is one of the saddest things I have read in a long time. People with addictions need help and support, not judgement.


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## RummysMum (Jan 9, 2009)

If alcohol and tobacco are legal, marijuana should be also. Time to get it regulated, remove the crime element and earn tax dollars from it. I'm a firm believer pot isn't addictive, at least not any more so than alcohol or adult entertainment. There are far less dangers to health with marijuana than alcohol, however the crime element involved in marijuana, grow-ops and the like to supply it underground is worse than the days of prohibition. Do I smoke it? No, primarily because it's not legal and I've got kids around. Have I in the past? Yes. I don't see the big deal about it, I really don't. I am ironically not much of a drinker at all. Alcohol makes me feel sick, even one or two drinks can break me out in hives and leave me sick for days.


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## ReleaseTheHounds (Feb 12, 2009)

http://www.ketv.com/news/18838874/detail.html

This is a terrible story but the horror did not end for this kitty .. oh no.. it had just begun. After his taste of weed, this kitty moved on to meth, then ecstacy.... last I heard, this poor kitten was a full blown heroin freak.

When will the madness end???


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## kobusclan6 (Feb 10, 2009)

I realize that kids are put into grown up positions...such as going to war...voting ...etc etc... and those are all issues that I also don't agree with! I think children need time to be an adult before making adult choices and decisions! I personally think that any mind altering drug, drink, etc etc.... should NEVER be in the hands of anyone....especially children! I guess its because I have 4 boys and I don't want them addicted to ANY kind of drug or alchohol. I want them to find positive ways to deal with any negatives of life...and to always fight for a good life....and not give in to drugs or alchohol just because its can sometimes seem like an easier road to take! 
On the subject of alcohol.... The age should NEVER be lowered! My goodness...I can see it now.... just because they wanna fight for the right to a beer....there will be more drunk driving deaths..... more young kids in jail for drinking and driving .... more pregnant teens (yes! drinking leads to unplanned sex).... more alcohol poisoned kids in hospitals (they don't know when to stop...kids like to show off) etc etc etc.!! It truely isn't a well thought out idea!!! Imagine.... 16yr olds all over going to school with a hangover...can't concentrate = won't graduate!!! :no: Its all so sad!


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## ReleaseTheHounds (Feb 12, 2009)

Yet the drinking ages in Canada are 18, and 19 and most of us seem to make it to adulthood without imploding. Imagine that (eh?)


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I think 16 is too young for legalized drinking, but I would be just fine with 18. It was 18 in the UK when I moved there. I was 20! So I never had that big 21st B day thing. Oh, well.


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## rosemary (Jul 7, 2007)

sorry rummysmym but i hsvr to disagree with weed not causing health difficulties speakinf grom experience i smoked dope for years wheen a teenager and the mental health problems it has left me with i wouldnt wish on my worst enemy legalise the stuff never i learnt that lesson the very hard way but the road since those days has been even harder


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## ReleaseTheHounds (Feb 12, 2009)

What kind of mental health problems has it left you? And how have you determined that they were solely caused by smoking?

Whether limited amounts of people have adverse reactions to Marijuana is not really relevant to the argument about whether it should be banned or not. It's sad that some people are predisposed to bad reactions, or overdo it and have bad experiences but that is not limited to Marijuana.

Should alcohol be banned because some people are allergic to it? Should I be forbidden from buying a 6 pack for the weekend because your Uncle's brother likes to drink a 40 and go skiing on the highway?


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

ReleaseTheHounds said:


> Should alcohol be banned because some people are allergic to it? Should I be forbidden from buying a 6 pack for the weekend because your Uncle's brother likes to drink a 40 and go skiing on the highway?


THAT was funny :


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

luvmydog2 said:


> I guess its because I have 4 boys and I don't want them addicted to ANY kind of drug or alchohol. I want them to find positive ways to deal with any negatives of life...and to always fight for a good life....and not give in to drugs or alchohol just because its can sometimes seem like an easier road to take!



Not everyone experiments with drugs because they are trying to escape the negatives of life lol I had an amazing first few years at college, and any drug usage I may have done was simply because I felt like seeing what it was like and it was fun.


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## cinnamonteal (May 16, 2008)

luvmydog2 said:


> On the subject of alcohol.... The age should NEVER be lowered! My goodness...I can see it now.... just because they wanna fight for the right to a beer....there will be more drunk driving deaths..... more young kids in jail for drinking and driving .... more pregnant teens (yes! drinking leads to unplanned sex).... more alcohol poisoned kids in hospitals (they don't know when to stop...kids like to show off) etc etc etc.!! It truely isn't a well thought out idea!!! Imagine.... 16yr olds all over going to school with a hangover...can't concentrate = won't graduate!!! :no: Its all so sad!


I honestly don't think that the laws we have in place are stopping the things that you are so worried about. Proponents of a lowered drinking age believe that it will actually prevent deaths and horrible consequences, especially among 18-20 year olds. A lot of undergrads binge drink at parties and it's not terribly uncommon for people to die of alcohol poisoning. If they could drink legally, they would be much more willing to seek medical help in these situations. When the drinking age went up, the number of highway drunk driving deaths went down but number of alcohol poisoning deaths went up.

Furthermore, I think it's our effed up attitude towards drinking that leads to unhealthy drinking behavior in the first place. I believe that we should teach our kids to drink moderately and responsibly, instead of withholding it and then unleashing them out into the world.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Ditto. I completely agree with that, CT


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## ReleaseTheHounds (Feb 12, 2009)

WOn't ANYONE think about the CHILDREN????!?!?!?!?


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## Bock (Jun 23, 2008)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> That is one of the saddest things I have read in a long time. People with addictions need help and support, not judgement.


 
Sorry, but I don't understand how this is one of the saddest things you've read. I didn't say let's pull money from those with mental disabilities or those who are old and poor and can not work at all. No problem there. 

I just don't see why you spend taxpayer money on those few who are addicted to drugs when they got themselves there in the first place. Some goes with cigarettes and alcohol. I didn't force anyone to drink or smoke or do drugs, so why should I pay for them to get off of it when they become addicted? It is their problem, not mine.


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

Bock said:


> Sorry, but I don't understand how this is one of the saddest things you've read. I didn't say let's pull money from those with mental disabilities or those who are old and poor and can not work at all. No problem there.
> 
> I just don't see why you spend taxpayer money on those few who are addicted to drugs when they got themselves there in the first place. Some goes with cigarettes and alcohol. I didn't force anyone to drink or smoke or do drugs, so why should I pay for them to get off of it when they become addicted? It is their problem, not mine.


Meanie. (Just kidding, Just kidding)

I do think taxpayer money is worthy for alcohol and drug addiction. I think Charities do the best work...but govenment can help because it serves a purpose as a safety net for those who lose all family and friends and income. Welfare however promotes bad living and creates more poverty...that we should do a way with.


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## Bock (Jun 23, 2008)

Ha, I'm trying not to be mean!!

Even if we never have money to programs that helped addicted people we would still be paying MILLIONS, if not billions, of dollars to medicare, medicaid, and other programs to help those who have gotten themselves sick from their addicting habits that we'd still be helping them out.

Lucky's Mom-I would rather do away with welfare and give money to addiction programs than vice versa, but I don't get to make decisions! Maybe for the better for some!!ha


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## PeanutsMom (Oct 14, 2007)

Ok, I'm assuming you are speaking of medicaid, food stamps,SSI, etc. by welfare. Let me say this, an 80 year old woman who has cared for her home and family her entire life while her husband supported them financially, the husband passes away, there is no pension or savings because while he always worked, he never got ahead or even current on things. She has no health insurance but she can get medicare. Medicare requires a nice sized co pay and the prescription drug coverage you can add to it is a joke compared to how much her blood pressure meds cost, no she isn't obese so we can't just say write her off as having become addicted to McDonalds. Social security benifits are based on work history, if you haven't worked in a certain amount of years you lose those work credits you MIGHT have gotten in your younger days. Can she collect social security based on her husbands previous income? It depends on how long he was sick and not working before he passed away. Also what shes eligible for on her husbands behalf may be even less than the 600 or so dollars a month she could collect from SSI if you guys didn't get your way and do away with the program. Even if she gets SSI it still isn't enough to have a home, food, and medicine. Which should she choose to spend the money on? No meds= death, no food= death, and no home= well, we do have tent cities going up all over the country. I'm overtired and can't sleep so I hope this comes out as clear as it is in my head.


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## Bock (Jun 23, 2008)

It did come out clear and I am totally for that! I am not for the woman/man who is a life-long alcoholic with 6 kids needing welfare to pay her rent and buy good when there is always a 12 pack in the refrigerator!

Or the woman who has 3 or 4 kids, who is not married, and keeps having kids even though she knows she can't afford them.

Those examples are places I wish our welfare benefits and SS would NOT go to.


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## PeanutsMom (Oct 14, 2007)

Bock said:


> It did come out clear and I am totally for that! I am not for the woman/man who is a life-long alcoholic with 6 kids needing welfare to pay her rent and buy good when there is always a 12 pack in the refrigerator!
> 
> Or the woman who has 3 or 4 kids, who is not married, and keeps having kids even though she knows she can't afford them.
> 
> Those examples are places I wish our welfare benefits and SS would NOT go to.


But the difficult part comes with the fact that if we take away food stamps and medicaid from the baby factory drunk lady then the kids don't eat or get medicine. It is hard to punish a parent without punishing innocent babies. It's a lose-lose situation. Some people seem to naturally have addictive personalities or even serious mental conditions that cause manic episodes. In those times of mania they do things they normally wouldn't dream of. I do agree that there must be a better way of handling our welfare system, but these times of financial "crisis" sure as heck aren't the times to start removing help. I mean, if one more home on the block gets an orange sticker I may vomit.


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## Bock (Jun 23, 2008)

True, it is a lose-lose situation. I hate that, if things were done my way, innocent kids would be put out, but there is just so much wasted money with the current set-up of welfare. I feel sorry for the kiddos because SOMEtimes the parents just have kids for the additional benefits and not because they are actually ready, prepared and want a child. Oh well, it is what it is and I doubt it will change significantly anytime soon.


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## RummysMum (Jan 9, 2009)

rosemary said:


> sorry rummysmym but i hsvr to disagree with weed not causing health difficulties speakinf grom experience i smoked dope for years wheen a teenager and the mental health problems it has left me with i wouldnt wish on my worst enemy legalise the stuff never i learnt that lesson the very hard way but the road since those days has been even harder



I'm sorry you went through this, and I'm happy to hear that you are doing well now. 

Often times those with a pre-disposition to mental illness either for genetic reasons or due to abuse... self-medicate with "adult entertainment," alcohol, pills, gambling, shopping, cutting, and drugs to alleviate the difficulty of whatever it is that makes life so painful for them. It's not the fault of shopping, a razor blade, adult relations, a deck of cards, or a bottle of beer that lead a person to a spiral of addiction - it is that person's medical or mental issue that leads them there. Another very solid reason why YES we should assist people in recovery programs, even more so when children are involved in affected families.


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## Ardeagold (Feb 26, 2007)

> sorry rummysmym but i hsvr to disagree with weed not causing health difficulties speakinf grom experience i smoked dope for years wheen a teenager and the mental health problems it has left me with i wouldnt wish on my worst enemy legalise the stuff never i learnt that lesson the very hard way but the road since those days has been even harder


I'm sorry for what you went through. However, you're talking to a child (teenager) of the 60's. And then there were the 70's. You know, the era of drugs run wild?

I know very few who didn't do drugs in the 70's. At least smoke pot. Or snort coke. Etc. I also know very few who aren't fully productive, non-addicted, members of society today. Yes...a few were lost along the way...just as some who start drinking as teens never stop.

But, IMO, and my experience (my mother died an alcoholic), some people are "addictive" types and others just are not. I've known many people who can drink like fish when young, yet never become addicted, and drink sparingly once they "grow up".

Physicians believe there's a genetic component, and I agree. It seems to run in families. Same goes for drug abuse. Of course, with all that...there are the environmental factors too. But still...there are many children who grow up in areas where everyone is drinking and doing drugs, and they have as well...but still never get addicted. 

I think there needs to be more research on the genetic factors involved, and then on finding a way to break that genetic "code".

That would be a good use for the billions of dollars wasted on the war against drugs.

It would do wonders for society if a "cure" was ever found. In many, many ways.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Most addictions are rooted in other problems- including abuse (as in physical, sexual, or emotional), mental health issues, lack of insurance leading to self medicating with drugs and alcohol, poverty/stress and lack of support or healthy ways to cope... the list goes on and on. And yes, I have a degree in this.

NO ONE decides, "I want to become a drunk/coke addict/etc" and then tries to do so. When you're at rock bottom... and you feel like you haven't got a way out or any other better way to temporarily numb the agony that is your life, you might be surprised how you'd respond. Some people are better at coping through other ways. If you haven't been there, then count your blessings. If you have been there and you overcame it- then that's great. Just realize that not everyone has the internal or external resources to do so with ease.


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## goldengirls550 (Jun 12, 2008)

luvmydog2 said:


> I realize that kids are put into grown up positions...such as going to war...voting ...etc etc... and those are all issues that I also don't agree with! I think children need time to be an adult before making adult choices and decisions! I personally think that any mind altering drug, drink, etc etc.... should NEVER be in the hands of anyone....especially children! I guess its because I have 4 boys and I don't want them addicted to ANY kind of drug or alchohol. I want them to find positive ways to deal with any negatives of life...and to always fight for a good life....and not give in to drugs or alchohol just because its can sometimes seem like an easier road to take!
> On the subject of alcohol.... The age should NEVER be lowered! My goodness...I can see it now.... just because they wanna fight for the right to a beer....there will be more drunk driving deaths..... more young kids in jail for drinking and driving .... more pregnant teens (yes! drinking leads to unplanned sex).... more alcohol poisoned kids in hospitals (they don't know when to stop...kids like to show off) etc etc etc.!! It truely isn't a well thought out idea!!! Imagine.... 16yr olds all over going to school with a hangover...can't concentrate = won't graduate!!! :no: Its all so sad!


Speaking as a high schooler, I know for a fact that telling someone they can't do something is a sure-fire way to get them to do it, than if it was just allowed. Trust me, the kids who come to school with a weekend hangover, would still do the same. Most of us though, have a brain cell in our heads and understand the consequences of getting completely wasted.

I have a few friends who smoke pot regularly and one in particular is highly intelligent and probably gonna make National Merit. I don't smoke, and don't plan on starting, so I'm not encouraging smoking, but I'm saying that it doesn't always turn people into crack-heads or addicts.

I don't think that drinking at a party now and then will lead to more teenage pregnancies. If people really want to get drunk it is sooo easy now, it really wouldn't make a difference if they lowered the drinking age. Drinking to pregnancy is a jump IMO (and this is coming from someone who was a product of a teen pregnancy).

Also, I know PLENTY more adults who are much more irresponsible and ignorant than kids. It really gets old that we all have to be assigned in our little age groups and we are blamed, along with the rest of our age group, for all of the trouble that some stupid people cause. Trust me, there are enough stupid people I know to make the stupid counts about even in all age groups. It is just assumed, I guess, that you become wiser with age.


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