# Question About Junior Hunt tests



## diane0905

So, I have signed up for a test in March. I signed up for Saturday, but Sunday is also an option. Is there any reason to sign up for both days? From what I understand by reading the information below, I need to attend four _different_ events and Q four times (land and water) for Logan to get a Junior Hunter certificate/title? Do people sign up for the second day in case they don't pass the first day -- or are there two days to accommodate more people?

Thank you. Logan loves this the most so far.


----------



## Prism Goldens

Enter both days- each is a different test.


----------



## SRW

Sounds like it is a double Junior, two seperate tests so you can get two passes in one weekend. Junior tests don't take long and generally don't draw large entries. Double junior tests make it possible to get 4 passes, and a title, in two weekends.

The tests will consist of 4 single marked retrieves, two land and two with water. They will not be difficult. If your dog has a strong desire to retrieve he will do fine. Work on his line manners, walking at heel, waiting to be released on a retrieve, being quiet. Tests will reward bad behavior for dogs that aren't ready.
At the test, take your time, slow down. When it is your time to run and you are at the line don't rush, let the dog settle in. If you are nervous or hurried your dog will know it.
Junior tests are really more for the handlers than the dogs. You will learn the mechanics of the event.


----------



## diane0905

SRW said:


> Sounds like it is a double Junior, two seperate tests so you can get two passes in one weekend. Junior tests don't take long and generally don't draw large entries. Double junior tests make it possible to get 4 passes, and a title, in two weekends.
> 
> The tests will consist of 4 single marked retrieves, two land and two with water. They will not be difficult. If your dog has a strong desire to retrieve he will do fine. Work on his line manners, walking at heel, waiting to be released on a retrieve, being quiet. Tests will reward bad behavior for dogs that aren't ready.
> At the test, take your time, slow down. When it is your time to run and you are at the line don't rush, let the dog settle in. If you are nervous or hurried your dog will know it.


Thank you! Exactly what I needed to know. I will sign up for both days. Our trainer says he's doing well at being steady. In our last lesson, two Labs (one six months and one four years old) were out there and Logan did well watching them run. It was his first time doing that, so I'm glad he sat and didn't pull like he wanted to go get the duck himself. He was excited for sure though.

I will surely be a bit nervous our first time -- will try to keep it in check.


----------



## diane0905

Prism Goldens said:


> Enter both days- each is a different test.


Thanks, Robin! I'm signed up for both days now.


----------



## SRW

Park a good distance from the line if possible. Air him well before your turn to run. Disciplined but relaxed is the attitude I want to see from my dogs.


----------



## diane0905

SRW said:


> Park a good distance from the line if possible. Air him well before your turn to run. Disciplined but relaxed is the attitude I want to see from my dogs.


I will. Our trainer said she knows where to park and which way we will take him. She has been doing this a while. Her husband did, from what I understand, well in the field world. He is passed away now though. I really like her.


----------



## ArkansasGold

Diane, can I just say that you are the absolute dream home? Do you have breeders fighting for who gets to breed your next puppy?


----------



## Prism Goldens

ArkansasGold said:


> Diane, can I just say that you are the absolute dream home? Do you have breeders fighting for who gets to breed your next puppy?


I will tell you, she IS a dream home!! And I hope I never lose her!


----------



## diane0905

ArkansasGold said:


> Diane, can I just say that you are the absolute dream home? Do you have breeders fighting for who gets to breed your next puppy?


You are very sweet.

I have no idea what I'm doing, but I'm working hard trying to figure it all out.

I only have my husband fighting me when I go on about owning land and more animals.  I'd move in with our trainer so Logan could be out there every day, but she has not issued that invitation.

I'm very fortunate to have found a breeder who blessed me with a great dog. He'd be much farther along if his handler wasn't so green. In agility, Logan literally looks like he's thinking, "She messed up again! I can't teach her anything!" If we end up busts, I can always claim I have a very happy dog because we have a lot of fun together.


----------



## diane0905

Prism Goldens said:


> I will tell you, she IS a dream home!! And I hope I never lose her!


Thank you! I'm having fun with him and learning so much. Everyone loves Logan.


----------



## diane0905

Also, and since I have no idea what size event is big or small -- there are 21 Junior entries so far.


----------



## SRW

That is a good entry for a Junior. Many are only 10 or 12. 
Doubles will often draw bigger entries.


----------



## diane0905

SRW said:


> That is a good entry for a Junior. Many are only 10 or 12.
> Doubles will often draw bigger entries.


It's being held here. It looks like there is one here in Columbia, SC in early April, so maybe that will be the next one we will attend -- if Logan is still here and not doing conformation yet.









H Cooper Black | South Carolina Parks Official Site


Great South Carolina horseback riding isn’t all you’ll find at H. Cooper Black. Camping, hunting and fishing are popular too. Explore the park now!




southcarolinaparks.com


----------



## ArkansasGold

diane0905 said:


> I have no idea what I'm doing, but I'm working hard trying to figure it all out.


It’s the hard work that really matters! You do so much with him!

He is living his best life. For real.


----------



## DblTrblGolden2

Go and have fun! Don't stress over it. My biggest tip for JH is to make sure your force fetch is solid. I think there will be more entries for that test. It is early in the season for a lot of JH dogs from up here to start traveling. It's been a cold winter in the NE, so many people haven't been able to get water work in.


----------



## 3goldens2keep

Sounds like you are on a good track for you and the pup! One word of caution! Be very careful, Hunt Tests are addictive! You may find yourself running your pup in JH tests...then you will find you just have to try that SH test...and then....after more training, you will have to go for the Gold, MH! After that the next logical thing to do is run in the Master's National...forever! Be careful or you will get hooked.....

And, most important, have fun!


----------



## diane0905

DblTrblGolden2 said:


> Go and have fun! Don't stress over it. My biggest tip for JH is to make sure your force fetch is solid. I think there will be more entries for that test. It is early in the season for a lot of JH dogs from up here to start traveling. It's been a cold winter in the NE, so many people haven't been able to get water work in.


She said he was one of the fastest she has had to do it. She also said it probably has to do with all the competition obedience training I've been doing with him.

It is 81 degrees right now here in Columbia, SC. Early for that kind of weather. Yuck.

I will do my best to have fun and not get nervous. I need to treat these things like I did job interviews. I just told myself regardless of whether I was hired or not, I wasn't leaving with anything less than what I had going in. It worked to keep me calm. I like to do well though. My husband says to the nth degree. 😅


----------



## diane0905

3goldens2keep said:


> Sounds like you are on a good track for you and the pup! One word of caution! Be very careful, Hunt Tests are addictive! You may find yourself running your pup in JH tests...then you will find you just have to try that SH test...and then....after more training, you will have to go for the Gold, MH! After that the next logical thing to do is run in the Master's National...forever! Be careful or you will get hooked.....
> 
> And, most important, have fun!


I've already been thinking we've been having so much fun I want to keep doing it. 😃


----------



## SRW

diane0905 said:


> It is 81 degrees right now here in Columbia, SC. Early for that kind of weather. Yuck.


Low 20's and everything is coated with ice in North Texas, so it could be yuckier.


----------



## 3goldens2keep

diane0905 said:


> I've already been thinking we've been having so much fun I want to keep doing it. 😃


Diane...I am hooked, have been for years! 

The JH tests are really fun and training a dog to get through that test does not take a pro, just someone who knows what to expect. 

Take your dog to a basic obedience class where he will learn (and so will you) to sit, stay, down, heel, and *Here (recall command)*. I have always done these at night usually going once a week for six weeks, each class is one hour. The recall command is the primary command you need on the JH test. Almost all Golden's will go get anything they see thrown in the air, especially if someone 'quacks' at them. So, if your pup does that you are already halfway there. (Providing he will pick up a duck, that may take some work). Then if you have drilled him on the obedience recall, he will bring the duck back to you when you recall him. That alone will not pass that test, but you would be well on the way to passing. In JH you bring the dog to the line on lead and can hold his collar until you send him to retrieve. Then if he finds the duck, picks it up and brings it back to you (you have to grab it out of his mouth before he drops it) you pass that test!

Of course you pup has to do the same thing on a water retrieve so you have to get him to love swimming after stuff you throw. Using your recall command, teach him to bring it back...

I suggest you go watch a few JH tests and talk with a few folks...you may find someone to help you learn the game at the hunt test....with a little help and a lot of work with your pup, you could pass the JH tests....

Good Luck


----------



## diane0905

SRW said:


> Low 20's and everything is coated with ice in North Texas, so it could be yuckier.


Yes, that's worse. I escape Columbia in July and August. Too much like Hell.


----------



## diane0905

3goldens2keep said:


> Diane...I am hooked, have been for years!
> 
> The JH tests are really fun and training a dog to get through that test does not take a pro, just someone who knows what to expect.
> 
> Take your dog to a basic obedience class where he will learn (and so will you) to sit, stay, down, heel, and *Here (recall command)*. I have always done these at night usually going once a week for six weeks, each class is one hour. The recall command is the primary command you need on the JH test. Almost all Golden's will go get anything they see thrown in the air, especially if someone 'quacks' at them. So, if your pup does that you are already halfway there. (Providing he will pick up a duck, that may take some work). Then if you have drilled him on the obedience recall, he will bring the duck back to you when you recall him. That alone will not pass that test, but you would be well on the way to passing. In JH you bring the dog to the line on lead and can hold his collar until you send him to retrieve. Then if he finds the duck, picks it up and brings it back to you (you have to grab it out of his mouth before he drops it) you pass that test!
> 
> Of course you pup has to do the same thing on a water retrieve so you have to get him to love swimming after stuff you throw. Using your recall command, teach him to bring it back...
> 
> I suggest you go watch a few JH tests and talk with a few folks...you may find someone to help you learn the game at the hunt test....with a little help and a lot of work with your pup, you could pass the JH tests....
> 
> Good Luck


We've been going for at least a couple of months (I think) and he's retrieving ducks from water and land. He comes into heel and returns things to hand (bumper) and returns an obedience dumbbell to hand (also tennis balls for fetch), but we haven't tried the duck yet on the return to hand. I assume we will get on that at our next lesson. I think he will do it. He's good with recall. She said he's good at steadiness. We shall see.

He gets excited coming in, so I hope he'll keep it together going up to the line. Once he sits he can hold it together until released. While training. Hopefully, that will transfer to a new place taking a test. 🙃 



















Here he is watching Cara load the ducks:










And here he is protesting the day she had the nerve to not have ducks  :


----------



## SRW

diane0905 said:


> Yes, that's worse. I escape Columbia in July and August. Too much like Hell.


I don't think I'd like Texas in July.


----------



## PalouseDogs

It looks like you've got him with a pro, so he's probably been introduced to live flyers. The first experience with a live flyer can surprise some dogs. I shouldn't admit this, because it's not a good idea, but my boy, Pinyon, has never seen a live flyer duck except in a hunt test. He blinked one or two, but has figured it out. The other test situation that might be new to the dog if you usually train alone is picking up yucky ducks that have been mouthed by other dogs. Initially, Pinyon wasn't too thrilled about picking up ducks with other dogs' slobber on them. The disgusting, stinky, slobbered on ducks are easier to arrange and train for than the live flyers, even if you're not training with a pro. 

Before you enter a test, put a duck at your feet and have your dog sitting or standing in front of you. Ask him to pick it up. A very common scenario you see in Junior is that the dog will get right to the handler and drop the bird at the handler's feet. Then, he won't pick it up. You see Junior handlers getting more and more flustered, attempting to deal with the situation by giving the command louder and louder, which is more likely to send the message to the dog that you want him to leave it than to pick it up. Ideally, if you've set up the situation in training, where you can be calm and collected, you can teach him to pick it up at your feet. In a test, take a step or two away from the duck and ask the dog to fetch it. For some reason, dogs are more likely to pick up something when you are not right next to it. (Maybe they think you "own" it if it's that close to you.) 

Also, in training, work on the routine of moving through a sequence of 3 holding blinds before you get to the mat. It's boring, but it's better that you get the dog used to it in training than at a trial. In a holding blind, have the dog sit so his nose is not right up against the blind. Have him sit sideways or with his back to the blind. If you are alone, pretend to have a conversation with someone he can't see beyond the blind. Work on loose-leash walking from blind to blind and to the mat after the last blind. 

In training, at the last blind, have a pretend conversation with the judges, speaking the judge's parts as well as your own, unless you have a training partner who can play judge. Before you leave the blind, the judge will look at you and ask you your number. So play the judge's part and say "Number?", then (in a fairly loud voice) "Dog 43". Say the judge's "Dog to the line," then walk to the line. Put dog on mat, remove leash, put leash in pocket (many judges don't like to see any part of the leash visible), loop hand lightly under collar, wave non-dog hand behind your back to indicate you are ready. Say the judge's "Dog" without letting go of the collar. Do not release the dog if he tugs on the collar at "Dog". In training, quietly say "no." go back to the last holding blind and go through the sequence again. Do it until the dog does not lunge forward at "Dog." If you are working with a training partner or group, warn them ahead of time that you are training for line manners and you are going to take as much time as you need. You do NOT want to instill the habit of breaking at a test. I would work on the approach to the line alone or with a single, patient training partner before working on it in a group. 

When he will quietly sit through the "Dog" (or sometimes the judges say the number, not "Dog"), then release him on his name. After that, it's his job.


----------



## Prism Goldens

Cheraw has nice test grounds- I'm guessing that's where you'll be- crossing fingers for the boy!


----------



## diane0905

Prism Goldens said:


> Cheraw has nice test grounds- I'm guessing that's where you'll be- crossing fingers for the boy!


Yes -- Cheraw. Cooper Black.

And thank you! He's a good boy. Hopefully, he'll be focused. He loves retrieving a duck. 









H Cooper Black | South Carolina Parks Official Site


Great South Carolina horseback riding isn’t all you’ll find at H. Cooper Black. Camping, hunting and fishing are popular too. Explore the park now!




southcarolinaparks.com


----------



## diane0905

PalouseDogs said:


> It looks like you've got him with a pro, so he's probably been introduced to live flyers. The first experience with a live flyer can surprise some dogs. I shouldn't admit this, because it's not a good idea, but my boy, Pinyon, has never seen a live flyer duck except in a hunt test. He blinked one or two, but has figured it out. The other test situation that might be new to the dog if you usually train alone is picking up yucky ducks that have been mouthed by other dogs. Initially, Pinyon wasn't too thrilled about picking up ducks with other dogs' slobber on them. The disgusting, stinky, slobbered on ducks are easier to arrange and train for than the live flyers, even if you're not training with a pro.
> 
> Before you enter a test, put a duck at your feet and have your dog sitting or standing in front of you. Ask him to pick it up. A very common scenario you see in Junior is that the dog will get right to the handler and drop the bird at the handler's feet. Then, he won't pick it up. You see Junior handlers getting more and more flustered, attempting to deal with the situation by giving the command louder and louder, which is more likely to send the message to the dog that you want him to leave it than to pick it up. Ideally, if you've set up the situation in training, where you can be calm and collected, you can teach him to pick it up at your feet. In a test, take a step or two away from the duck and ask the dog to fetch it. For some reason, dogs are more likely to pick up something when you are not right next to it. (Maybe they think you "own" it if it's that close to you.)
> 
> Also, in training, work on the routine of moving through a sequence of 3 holding blinds before you get to the mat. It's boring, but it's better that you get the dog used to it in training than at a trial. In a holding blind, have the dog sit so his nose is not right up against the blind. Have him sit sideways or with his back to the blind. If you are alone, pretend to have a conversation with someone he can't see beyond the blind. Work on loose-leash walking from blind to blind and to the mat after the last blind.
> 
> In training, at the last blind, have a pretend conversation with the judges, speaking the judge's parts as well as your own, unless you have a training partner who can play judge. Before you leave the blind, the judge will look at you and ask you your number. So play the judge's part and say "Number?", then (in a fairly loud voice) "Dog 43". Say the judge's "Dog to the line," then walk to the line. Put dog on mat, remove leash, put leash in pocket (many judges don't like to see any part of the leash visible), loop hand lightly under collar, wave non-dog hand behind your back to indicate you are ready. Say the judge's "Dog" without letting go of the collar. Do not release the dog if he tugs on the collar at "Dog". In training, quietly say "no." go back to the last holding blind and go through the sequence again. Do it until the dog does not lunge forward at "Dog." If you are working with a training partner or group, warn them ahead of time that you are training for line manners and you are going to take as much time as you need. You do NOT want to instill the habit of breaking at a test. I would work on the approach to the line alone or with a single, patient training partner before working on it in a group.
> 
> When he will quietly sit through the "Dog" (or sometimes the judges say the number, not "Dog"), then release him on his name. After that, it's his job.


I'm taking with a lady named Cara Mock @ Canvasback Kennels.

We have not worked with live flyers. She brought out a live duck early on and it was a funny city girl moment for me. She was holding it by the leg and I thought it was dead. She walked all around with it and Logan followed along sniffing at it. Well, then she turned it over and the duck flapped its wings wildly which made me startle/jump bigly.  It did not scare Logan at all. He took off after that duck, which flew to the next pond. He was about to go in after it, but I called him back. Logan thought it was a mighty good time.

I know Cara used to raise/sell ducks. Her husband passed away about eight years ago (Felix Mock) and I don't know when she stopped duck raising. Apparently, there's someone nearby with a huge duck farm (is it called a farm?)

Thanks for the tip about stepping back. It makes sense for sure. Thanks also for the holding blinds tip. When I train Logan in obedience I sometimes say out loud what the judge would be saying to me when we begin our heeling.

We've seen the disgusting ducks and once a partially frozen duck. Logan liked the gross duck and he retrieved the frozen duck, but didn't seem as excited as usual about it. Perhaps frozen there's less dead duck smell.

To be honest, when she said we should sign up for a test in March I was thinking we aren't ready. She seems to think he's ready.


----------



## hollyk

I remember every ounce of joy and pride I had running my 1st JH dog.
Breath and have fun. 
Dog to the line!


----------



## 3goldens2keep

diane0905 said:


> We've been going for at least a couple of months (I think) and he's retrieving ducks from water and land. He comes into heel and returns things to hand (bumper) and returns an obedience dumbbell to hand (also tennis balls for fetch), but we haven't tried the duck yet on the return to hand. I assume we will get on that at our next lesson. I think he will do it. He's good with recall. She said he's good at steadiness. We shall see.
> 
> He gets excited coming in, so I hope he'll keep it together going up to the line. Once he sits he can hold it together until released. While training. Hopefully, that will transfer to a new place taking a test. 🙃
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here he is watching Cara load the ducks:
> 
> 
> 
> And here he is protesting the day she had the nerve to not have ducks  :
> 
> 
> YOU AND THE PUP ARE ALREADY, READY FOR THE JH! GET ON WITH IT...YOU WILL HAVE A BALL RUNNING THAT PUP! THEN ON TO SH AND RUNNING BLINDS....!


----------



## DevWind

diane0905 said:


> She said he was one of the fastest she has had to do it. She also said it probably has to do with all the competition obedience training I've been doing with him.
> 
> It is 81 degrees right now here in Columbia, SC. Early for that kind of weather. Yuck.
> 
> I will do my best to have fun and not get nervous. I need to treat these things like I did job interviews. I just told myself regardless of whether I was hired or not, I wasn't leaving with anything less than what I had going in. It worked to keep me calm. I like to do well though. My husband says to the nth degree. 😅


Obedience is the foundation of everything else! Good luck at your tests!


----------



## 3goldens2keep

Don't worry about the line, in JH you walk the dog on lead and collar to the line. Then you take the lead off and put it in a pocket (out of site of the judges), and hold your dogs collar with your hand. Then when you are ready you signal the judge to have them throw the bird. Then the judge will tell you "dog" real softly, and you can release his collar (he wears it in this test).... so off he goes. If he fetches and delivers to hand, you pass! Easy, Pea-sy....I say! Oh, if your dog returns and drops the bird, do not pick it up, make him pick it up, the quickly grab it from him...then you pass! It is best in JH to grab the bird from your dogs mouth as soon as he is in front of you, heeling it not required to pass, as long as you get the bird delivered to your hand from the dogs mouth....

You can do this...and regardless, you will not believe how fun it is....and your dog will have a great time to...it is what he was bred to do!


----------



## diane0905

I'm watching videos. Do y'all use whistles? I have not been. Also, I use "Come" for Logan. My trainer says "Here", but I've noticed when she yells it to Logan, he sometimes doesn't register, but the minute I say "Come, Logan!" he heads right on over. I guess that does not matter -- use what he knows.






I also watched a video of a guy who failed, but he was mighty pleased he won a rifle in a lottery drawing at the event. He failed because he let his dog go before the judge signaled he could. I could see nerves causing that. He also apparently talked to his dog when he couldn't. I remember my trainer telling me once, "Less words." 

I'd better just start watching people who pass. 😅

Oh, and we have not practiced with ducks hanging by the judges. I've seen that in quite a few videos.


----------



## hollyk

Clean Run Films has nice videos on YouTube


----------



## diane0905

hollyk said:


> Clean Run Films has nice videos on YouTube


Yes, I’ve watched the Junior video. Very helpful. I will re-watch. Thanks!


----------



## PalouseDogs

diane0905 said:


> I'm watching videos. Do y'all use whistles? I have not been. Also, I use "Come" for Logan. My trainer says "Here", but I've noticed when she yells it to Logan, he sometimes doesn't register, but the minute I say "Come, Logan!" he heads right on over. I guess that does not matter -- use what he knows.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also watched a video of a guy who failed, but he was mighty pleased he won a rifle in a lottery drawing at the event. He failed because he let his dog go before the judge signaled he could. I could see nerves causing that. He also apparently talked to his dog when he couldn't. I remember my trainer telling me once, "Less words."
> 
> I'd better just start watching people who pass. 😅
> 
> Oh, and we have not practiced with ducks hanging by the judges. I've seen that in quite a few videos.


Whistles are easier on your throat. You would have to yell mighty loud for a dog to hear you from far away in tall grass. 

Ziva did good on her hunt test, but her owner held her collar while she took the duck on the first land retrieve. I'm fairly certain that's a big no-no, but the judge must have let it slide or she wouldn't have been called back for water. I noticed she didn't do it again, so maybe the judge let her off with a warning. Junior judges are usually lenient with beginners.


----------



## 3goldens2keep

diane0905 said:


> I'm watching videos. Do y'all use whistles? I have not been. Also, I use "Come" for Logan. My trainer says "Here", but I've noticed when she yells it to Logan, he sometimes doesn't register, but the minute I say "Come, Logan!" he heads right on over. I guess that does not matter -- use what he knows.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also watched a video of a guy who failed, but he was mighty pleased he won a rifle in a lottery drawing at the event. He failed because he let his dog go before the judge signaled he could. I could see nerves causing that. He also apparently talked to his dog when he couldn't. I remember my trainer telling me once, "Less words."
> 
> I'd better just start watching people who pass. 😅
> 
> Oh, and we have not practiced with ducks hanging by the judges. I've seen that in quite a few videos.


Yep, you need to 'whistle train' your pup on recall (Come). Conditions and distance in a hunt test can make your voice hard to hear or actually impossible to hear (wind, distance, hills, valleys, etc.) for the pup. Yet a 'tweet', 'tweet, 'tweet' cannot be missed. Training this is easy! Every time you call your pup going forward yell "Come" as always then right away hit your whistle 'tweet', 'tweet, 'tweet'. Do it EVERY TIME you recall the pup. Within a few days of training, you will find he will recall whenever he hears the 'tweet', 'tweet, 'tweet' It really is that easy! If you want you can still use the Come and 'tweet', 'tweet, 'tweet' if you feel safer doing that, but if you get in a bad wind or other problem, the whistle will save the day...


----------



## diane0905

PalouseDogs said:


> Whistles are easier on your throat. You would have to yell mighty loud for a dog to hear you from far away in tall grass.
> 
> Ziva did good on her hunt test, but her owner held her collar while she took the duck on the first land retrieve. I'm fairly certain that's a big no-no, but the judge must have let it slide or she wouldn't have been called back for water. I noticed she didn't do it again, so maybe the judge let her off with a warning. Junior judges are usually lenient with beginners.


Thanks. It’s probably hard not to mess up something first time out. I figure if we don’t pass, we will keep on trying. Is there a permanent record for screw ups? If so, I may be in trouble. 😅


----------



## diane0905

3goldens2keep said:


> Yep, you need to 'whistle train' your pup on recall (Come). Conditions and distance in a hunt test can make your voice hard to hear or actually impossible to hear (wind, distance, hills, valleys, etc.) for the pup. Yet a 'tweet', 'tweet, 'tweet' cannot be missed. Training this is easy! Every time you call your pup going forward yell "Come" as always then right away hit your whistle 'tweet', 'tweet, 'tweet'. Do it EVERY TIME you recall the pup. Within a few days of training, you will find he will recall whenever he hears the 'tweet', 'tweet, 'tweet' It really is that easy! If you want you can still use the Come and 'tweet', 'tweet, 'tweet' if you feel safer doing that, but if you get in a bad wind or other problem, the whistle will save the day...


Ok. Thank you. I will get a whistle and start training him on it. He catches on quickly.


----------



## K9-Design

You guys are cute. Here's me disagreeing. There's no reason to whistle train a junior dog, they are going to bring that bird back, the whistle is the least of their concerns. Teaching only a whistle recall can dilute the meaning of your whistle later on if you start teaching blinds. Every junior handler shows up with a whistle and it's absolutely unnecessary. Your dog is going to bring the bird to you regardless. I don't whistle in my Master & Qual dogs, I save that whistle for something important. Believe me they bring the bird in without it.
Also, if your dog is well trained to return the bird into heel position, even if he happens to drop it at a test and you have to tell him to fetch again, DO NOT SWOOP at the bird and snatch it away from him. What better way to encourage the dog to drop the bird, or be possessive of it, than to be grabby with it! Do what you have been trained to do and what the dog has been trained to do. I HATE the "JUNIOR GRAB" and would never encourage someone to do it.


----------



## diane0905

K9-Design said:


> You guys are cute. Here's me disagreeing. There's no reason to whistle train a junior dog, they are going to bring that bird back, the whistle is the least of their concerns. Teaching only a whistle recall can dilute the meaning of your whistle later on if you start teaching blinds. Every junior handler shows up with a whistle and it's absolutely unnecessary. Your dog is going to bring the bird to you regardless. I don't whistle in my Master & Qual dogs, I save that whistle for something important. Believe me they bring the bird in without it.
> Also, if your dog is well trained to return the bird into heel position, even if he happens to drop it at a test and you have to tell him to fetch again, DO NOT SWOOP at the bird and snatch it away from him. What better way to encourage the dog to drop the bird, or be possessive of it, than to be grabby with it! Do what you have been trained to do and what the dog has been trained to do. I HATE the "JUNIOR GRAB" and would never encourage someone to do it.


Thank you. He does automatically turn so far and heads back once he grabs the bird and I’ve been saying good boy as he comes in. I then say heel and give it, but only with balls and bumpers so far for that part.


----------



## diane0905

hollyk said:


> Clean Run Films has nice videos on YouTube


I forgot to say, when I told my trainer I watched this she said, "You watched 2.5 hours about the Junior Hunt test?!" 😅


----------



## 3goldens2keep

K9-Design said:


> You guys are cute. Here's me disagreeing. There's no reason to whistle train a junior dog, they are going to bring that bird back, the whistle is the least of their concerns. Teaching only a whistle recall can dilute the meaning of your whistle later on if you start teaching blinds. Every junior handler shows up with a whistle and it's absolutely unnecessary. Your dog is going to bring the bird to you regardless. I don't whistle in my Master & Qual dogs, I save that whistle for something important. Believe me they bring the bird in without it.
> Also, if your dog is well trained to return the bird into heel position, even if he happens to drop it at a test and you have to tell him to fetch again, DO NOT SWOOP at the bird and snatch it away from him. What better way to encourage the dog to drop the bird, or be possessive of it, than to be grabby with it! Do what you have been trained to do and what the dog has been trained to do. I HATE the "JUNIOR GRAB" and would never encourage someone to do it.


All good comments, but I differ on part of it! I have run a couple of JH tests where conditions limited the ability of my pup to hear my voice. (e.g. wind in my face, raining, terrain, etc.) Also, sometimes when my pup first looked up from grabbing the bird, he could not see where I was (I know in JH, usually they are less than 75 yards). But it happened...but the whistle got his focus better than my voice command, although I always used both on JH. So, I still advise teaching the Whistle recall early. The only other whistle command they need to learn in hunt tests is Sit! I cannot imagine that two whistle commands would dilute our pup's ability to sit on command!? All of my dogs have been taught in this sequence and the whistle sit prior to handline has never been a problem.


----------



## hollyk

diane0905 said:


> I forgot to say, when I told my trainer I watched this she said, "You watched 2.5 hours about the Junior Hunt test?!" 😅


Lol 
Well they do call it a deep dive. 
Did you watch it all or fast forward? 

I have watched the Master ones but scrub though them to see the test set ups and the grounds. I’m in the PNW so it’s interesting to see other areas. 
They do produce the nicest HT videos I have seen on YouTube. I love their graphics for marks and blinds.


----------



## SRW

My deep dive into Junior Tests is closer to 2.5 seconds. If your dog doesn't have solid obedience training and line manners, don't enter. 
You can undo weeks worth of training at one test If the dog is allowed to disobey, cheat water or cover, break on a mark, etc.
The dog must be solid on sit to whistle IMO. It will enable you to regain control of your pup if things go awry.

A good rule of thumb is, whatever your dog is doing in training, expect to get about 70% of that at a test.


----------



## diane0905

hollyk said:


> Lol
> Well they do call it a deep dive.
> Did you watch it all or fast forward?
> 
> I have watched the Master ones but scrub though them to see the test set ups and the grounds. I’m in the PNW so it’s interesting to see other areas.
> They do produce the nicest HT videos I have seen on YouTube. I love their graphics for marks and blinds.


I'm just being silly, although our trainer did say that. I actually enjoyed it a lot -- and yes, I watched it all in segments. It's very well done. I found listening to the judges very informative and it is cool to see dogs actually doing it.

I have not watched the Master one yet, but I will.

Oh, and my son is in Seattle at UofW. He's almost done getting his masters in Library Science and then heading to D.C. We (hubby and I) went to visit him there and really enjoyed it. First time either of us had been.


----------



## diane0905

SRW said:


> My deep dive into Junior Tests is closer to 2.5 seconds. If your dog doesn't have solid obedience training and line manners, don't enter.
> You can undo weeks worth of training at one test If the dog is allowed to disobey, cheat water or cover, break on a mark, etc.
> The dog must be solid on sit to whistle IMO. It will enable you to regain control of your pup if things go awry.
> 
> A good rule of thumb is, whatever your dog is doing in training, expect to get about 70% of that at a test.


It's nice for new people to have a resource like that -- lots of questions answered.

Logan does very well in training. He has done what has been asked of him. We go today. We've been going since late November -- once a week, missing one when she was in Belize. I don't know how long it usually takes to train for this. I know every dog is different, but I'm speaking in averages. 

I have already entered as per my leader's suggestion.

We've not done sit to whistle though. We haven't done anything with a whistle.

I see quite a few different whistles on Gun Dog Supply. Do y'all have preferences or will any whistle do? My trainer has one that looks like a mini mega horn without the handle.


----------



## SRW

diane0905 said:


> I see quite a few different whistles on Gun Dog Supply. Do y'all have preferences or will any whistle do? My trainer has one that looks like a mini mega horn without the handle.


What ever you like is fine. For yard training I like a Roy Gonia pealess. 
For field training I use a whistle with a megaphone. It is needed at extended ranges (250 yds+) and it is easier on the ears of the handler. 
Keep in mind that whistles are like voice commands. Too loud will be perceived as a correction or reprimand by some dogs. Also, if you blow too loud all the time the dog won't listen as closely.
It is very easy to teach a whistle sit to a dog that already knows the sit command. Simply command sit and follow with a toot on the whistle. Do this randomly a bunch of times during the day. The next day toot first then say sit, odds are your pups butt will hit the ground before you can say it.


----------



## diane0905

SRW said:


> What ever you like is fine. For yard training I like a Roy Gonia pealess.
> For field training I use a whistle with a megaphone. It is needed at extended ranges (250 yds+) and it is easier on the ears of the handler.
> Keep in mind that whistles are like voice commands. Too loud will be perceived as a correction or reprimand by some dogs. Also, if you blow too loud all the time the dog won't listen as closely.
> It is very easy to teach a whistle sit to a dog that already knows the sit command. Simply command sit and follow with a toot on the whistle. Do this randomly a bunch of times during the day. The next day toot first then say sit, odds are your pups butt will hit the ground before you can say it.
> View attachment 890292


Thanks! I didn't know the ball was called a pea.


----------



## SRW

diane0905 said:


> Thanks! I didn't know the ball was called a pea.


Yep, you can get them with or without. For yard training the pealess can be blown softly. The ones with a pea are fine but you have to blow hard enough to make the pea spin around so it will always be louder.


----------



## SRW

Here is an example of what a young dog is capable of.
Lily is 11 1/2 months, she ran as test dog in all four series of a derby last weekend. She stepped on every mark and would have won if I had entered her (according to the judges). She then ran as test dog on the land blind for the Qual and lined it (that means perfect). 
For her efforts the judges awarded her an honorary "Test Dog JAM" 
Normally I hate green ribbons but this one is pretty special.

Next weekend she is officially entered in her first derby. I'll try to stay out of her way and see what happens.


----------



## diane0905

Awwww. Congratulations!! Smart and well-trained Lily.

I didn't even consider doing field with Logan early on. I wish my brain had progressed to that, but everything I have been trying is all new to me. We had zero classes in Columbia Logan's first year and I felt stuck. I don't know why I didn't think to go to the upstate (probably because it's almost two hours away) for obedience classes sooner, but to be honest they canceled classes for a while also -- only a couple of months though. Someone on this site suggested I take him up there when I whined because Columbia's obedience club shut down for more than Logan's first year of life. My private trainer quit also due to COVID.

If I had had friends who did field training, it would have been perfect for Logan early on as it is outdoors and also, outdoors people don't seem as worried all the time -- more space between people and fresh air, for two reasons. 😅

On a happy note, I have a new neighbor moving in this week and have been told he has done (maybe still does) advanced stuff with his dog in field training. Perhaps I can befriend him and get tips.


----------



## SRW

diane0905 said:


> On a happy note, I have a new neighbor moving in this week and have been told he has done (maybe still does) advanced stuff with his dog in field training. Perhaps I can befriend him and get tips.


I hope so.
A small group of dedicated amateur trainers with one or two experienced and successful members is more valuable than any training class you will ever find.


----------



## DevWind

K9-Design said:


> You guys are cute. Here's me disagreeing. There's no reason to whistle train a junior dog, they are going to bring that bird back, the whistle is the least of their concerns. Teaching only a whistle recall can dilute the meaning of your whistle later on if you start teaching blinds. Every junior handler shows up with a whistle and it's absolutely unnecessary. Your dog is going to bring the bird to you regardless. I don't whistle in my Master & Qual dogs, I save that whistle for something important. Believe me they bring the bird in without it.
> Also, if your dog is well trained to return the bird into heel position, even if he happens to drop it at a test and you have to tell him to fetch again, DO NOT SWOOP at the bird and snatch it away from him. What better way to encourage the dog to drop the bird, or be possessive of it, than to be grabby with it! Do what you have been trained to do and what the dog has been trained to do. I HATE the "JUNIOR GRAB" and would never encourage someone to do it.


Haha! I'm ALWAYS asked where my whistle is. Pilot hasn't a clue what a whistle even means so why bother! I agree that you don't need it. If you truly worked on retrieving, they will bring the bird back. I think somewhere someone told me that it's required as equipment. So I do own one. I are considering out first JH test this year. I've been told that it's easier than the WC. We missed one bird on the WC due to his rookie mistake...I'll be sure to work on that!


----------



## 3goldens2keep

SRW said:


> Here is an example of what a young dog is capable of.
> 
> Next weekend she is officially entered in her first derby. I'll try to stay out of her way and see what happens.
> 
> 
> *Good Luck!*


----------



## SRW

DevWind said:


> Haha! I'm ALWAYS asked where my whistle is. Pilot hasn't a clue what a whistle even means so why bother! I agree that you don't need it. If you truly worked on retrieving, they will bring the bird back. I think somewhere someone told me that it's required as equipment. So I do own one.


The purpose of a whistle is not to ensure returning with a retrieve.


----------



## DevWind

SRW said:


> The purpose of a whistle is not to ensure returning with a retrieve.


Right...thus why it's not needed at my level. I see so many people whistle when the dog picks up the bird to tell them to come back.


----------



## 3goldens2keep

Guess some of you have never had your dog look up, after picking up the bird, and not be able to find you. One JH test we ran our dogs down a very high and long hill down into a corn field (Sedalia, MO). Many of the dogs did not know to look up...! Voice commands did not work, whistles did...


----------



## SRW

DevWind said:


> Right...thus why it's not needed at my level. I see so many people whistle when the dog picks up the bird to tell them to come back.


However you care to train is fine by me.
Sit to whistle is a foundational command and should be taught as basic obedience for any field retriever IMO.
There are a variety of reasons why handlers give a here whistle as a dog picks up a retrieve.
The least of those reasons would be returning to the line.
I will add that training for “a level“ is not the way to get there.


----------



## 3goldens2keep

SRW...why are you stating the obvious? How do you decide what reason for giving a 'here' whistle is least, and which are most important...be specific please...


----------



## SRW

3goldens2keep said:


> why are you stating the obvious?


It was said that a whistle "was not needed at my level". Sit is a foundational command necessary for advanced training. Field retrievers running and at any distance from the handler probably won't hear you say sit when it is really needed. If the dog does hear the handler yelling SIT, it will likely be interpreted as a correction by the dog, maybe a harsh one. Teaching sit to whistle to a pup is very easy, I don't understand why anyone would be reluctant to do it.



3goldens2keep said:


> How do you decide what reason for giving a 'here' whistle is least


I probably should have said a come in whistle is least often used to get the dog to return with a retrieve. With a young pup that is often the case but pups learn quickly that if they hurry back the fun will continue.



3goldens2keep said:


> which are most important...be specific please...


I frequently give a come in whistle (toot toot toot) just as the dog picks up a bird, as do many handlers. This is simply to condition the dog come toward the handler instantly and enthusiastically when hearing it. A tool you must have to teach a dog to deal with many factors influencing marks and blinds. This would be the most important reason from a training aspect.

Safety of the dog is another important reason.



SRW said:


> I will add that training for “a level“ is not the way to get there.


If you are asking about this, what I mean is training to pass a test or to a set standard of rules does not work.
Field retrievers need to be trained on concepts. No two tests, trials, or hunting situations will be identical. Retrievers must be taught how to recognize and deal with many different concepts.

An example, last weekends Qual near Ravenna TX. The first series was a very tough but fair marking test. The entry was large and the judges need to place the dogs and have a limited amount of time to do it. I think there were 45 dogs that ran the 1st series, 13 were called back for the 2nd. I'm sure there was some grumbling about how hard the test was, a tight triple with a long retired, short stand out and a flier to the right. 
The number one reason dogs failed the test was for breaking down and going back to the short standout gun when sent for the long retired. Going back to an old fall is a cardinal sin and a basic concept a dog must be taught.


----------



## DevWind

SRW said:


> However you care to train is fine by me.
> Sit to whistle is a foundational command and should be taught as basic obedience for any field retriever IMO.
> There are a variety of reasons why handlers give a here whistle as a dog picks up a retrieve.
> The least of those reasons would be returning to the line.
> I will add that training for “a level“ is not the way to get there.


Chances are I'll never get past JH/WC. At least not with the dogs I have now. Time and all of that is I problem as long as I have a grade school age kid living with me.


----------



## DevWind

3goldens2keep said:


> SRW...why are you stating the obvious? How do you decide what reason for giving a 'here' whistle is least, and which are most important...be specific please...


It's all good. I'm training for what I know I can do. I work so I can't train with my friends. They all train in the morning. The trainer we use to go to for Saturday group sessions has retired. Not complaining. It is what it is.


----------



## diane0905

At the risk of seeming flaky 😃, I think I'm going to wait to try for Logan's JH. I don't think he's ready. Our trainer suggested entering him initially and she seems less sure about it now also as he's regressed a bit the last couple of times we went. We've been taking once a week since late November, but have not worked on him returning the duck to hand until last week. He does with a db and tennis ball, but he's throwing the duck down mostly unless I turn to walk away from him -- at which point he gladly follows and proudly delivers the duck. Although I've never done this before, I feel he should be consistently returning it to hand in a training situation if I expect him to do so in a test which many more distractions. I don't expect perfection to 100% happen when I take him, but I'd like to be seeing something closer to it in training before I take him off to do a test.

On a positive note, yesterday we had the opportunity to watch other dogs train. A man had rented some of the fields/ponds to train a couple of trailers full of Labs and other breeds. Mostly labs. It was nice to see a one year old Lab who had trained since puppyhood retrieving. He was extremely focused. The trainer was super nice and asked me all sorts of questions, answered some of mine, and told me he could tell Logan is smart and also asked if I was planning on showing him.

I thought it was some sort of training group when I first saw them and was ready to sign up, beg to join, or whatever it took. It seems training in a group would prepare him much more.

In any event, it seems like late summer or early fall would be a better option for us. I talked to Cara (trainer) about it and she said she didn't like the way he was handling the bird the last couple of lessons either, so she's good with my decision.


----------



## DblTrblGolden2

It sounds like your making the right decision. I always figure if I’m 100% in training I’ll be at about 80% in a test. I made sure Cruz could be handled if I had to before I ran JH. My goals were always to go further so it made sense. I didn’t have to handle him, but I came close to making the decision once. It’s always best to go in with full confidence. A test will bring out your weaknesses faster then any other situation.

And then there’s the people that just throw caution to the wind and get lucky. Lol


----------



## diane0905

DblTrblGolden2 said:


> It sounds like your making the right decision. I always figure if I’m 100% in training I’ll be at about 80% in a test. I made sure Cruz could be handled if I had to before I ran JH. My goals were always to go further so it made sense. I didn’t have to handle him, but I came close to making the decision once. It’s always best to go in with full confidence. A test will bring out your weaknesses faster then any other situation.
> 
> And then there’s the people that just throw caution to the wind and get lucky. Lol


I think my trainer thought I wanted her to handle him, but I don't because I don't just want to have the title -- I want to have a relationship and have fun with Logan. I don't see much purpose or fun in just taking him places and letting someone else handle him, but I guess that must be done? I don't mind letting someone handle him in conformation because it's the nature of the beast from what I've read. Plus, I know almost zero about handling for conformation or how to groom him for it.


----------



## 3goldens2keep

diane0905 said:


> I think my trainer thought I wanted her to handle him, but I don't because I don't just want to have the title -- I want to have a relationship and have fun with Logan. I don't see much purpose or fun in just taking him places and letting someone else handle him, but I guess that must be done? I don't mind letting someone handle him in conformation because it's the nature of the beast from what I've read. Plus, I know almost zero about handling for conformation or how to groom him for it.


Diane, you are so right...run that pup and have fun! He will enjoy it regardless, and after you do it a few times, you will enjoy it more than you know...JUST DO IT!


----------



## DblTrblGolden2

diane0905 said:


> I think my trainer thought I wanted her to handle him, but I don't because I don't just want to have the title -- I want to have a relationship and have fun with Logan. I don't see much purpose or fun in just taking him places and letting someone else handle him, but I guess that must be done? I don't mind letting someone handle him in conformation because it's the nature of the beast from what I've read. Plus, I know almost zero about handling for conformation or how to groom him for it.


You are making the right choice by handling him yourself. I handle Cruz myself and train him with guidance from a good Pro. When I was referring to handle I meant having to whistle sit him, and handle him (back, over) to a mark. Some JH tests are very straight forward and some are a little tougher. One I ran with Cruz had a live flyer, it was August, the bird went down in the edge of a ditch bank at about 100 yards. It was not where it was meant to land but the judge didn't call a no bird so off he went. He hunted and pushed through the ditch bank and I was prepared that if I had to I would direct him to the bird; whistle sit, over, back, etc... Luckily, my boy is a good hunter and found it. You will never regret handling him (as the person at the line) yourself. A very wise friend always told me to train above the level you are going to test for.


----------



## diane0905

3goldens2keep said:


> Diane, you are so right...run that pup and have fun! He will enjoy it regardless, and after you do it a few times, you will enjoy it more than you know...JUST DO IT!


He's so much fun. Everyone smiles at him because he has such a happy spirit.


----------



## diane0905

DblTrblGolden2 said:


> You are making the right choice by handling him yourself. I handle Cruz myself and train him with guidance from a good Pro. When I was referring to handle I meant having to whistle sit him, and handle him (back, over) to a mark. Some JH tests are very straight forward and some are a little tougher. One I ran with Cruz had a live flyer, it was August, the bird went down in the edge of a ditch bank at about 100 yards. It was not where it was meant to land but the judge didn't call a no bird so off he went. He hunted and pushed through the ditch bank and I was prepared that if I had to I would direct him to the bird; whistle sit, over, back, etc... Luckily, my boy is a good hunter and found it. You will never regret handling him (as the person at the line) yourself. A very wise friend always told me to train above the level you are going to test for.


It's definitely the thought process of the people where I take competition obedience. They are always saying a dog should be trained beyond novice before he ever competes in novice.

It sounds like Cruz is a smart boy.

I hope I get the straight forward version.


----------



## 3goldens2keep

diane0905 said:


> He's so much fun. Everyone smiles at him because he has such a happy spirit.


We had a male Golden (Spirit) that had a face and smile that everyone loved, especially kids. He just loved everyone...sweet boy he was....


----------



## diane0905

3goldens2keep said:


> We had a male Golden (Spirit) that had a face and smile that everyone loved, especially kids. He just loved everyone...sweet boy he was....
> 
> View attachment 890517


Beautiful boy. I’m sure you miss him. 

Logan is so gentle with children.

He has a happy face and kids come running up. My grands have helped me train him (and them) to behave well in each other’s company.


----------



## 3goldens2keep

diane0905...Logan is a real fine looking Golden, he too has that face that bring the kids running to play! Aren't Grandkids great! We are blessed with 6...


----------



## diane0905

3goldens2keep said:


> diane0905...Logan is a real fine looking Golden, he too has that face that bring the kids running to play! Aren't Grandkids great! We are blessed with 6...


Thank you! I have three. Grace (9), Charlotte (6), and Adler (4). I love them so much and they live in our neighborhood.

On a real city girl sounding note, the first day of our Junior Hunt test would have been t-storms and 40mph winds and this morning it was 22 degrees. 😬 😅


----------



## 3goldens2keep

diane0905 Wow, cute they are, it will be so fun teaching them how fun these dogs are, especially running hunt tests....

As I said we have 6 Grandkids. Our twins, Molly and Morgan who both are through college and married, can you say Great Grandchildren? Good kids they are... They all live in Virginia where my daughter husband is from, 16 hours away! 

My oldest son and his wife have a boy and a girl, (I am not great at ages), but I Savannah is 13 and her little brother, Charlie, is 9.? They live thirty minutes away. 

My youngest son and his wife live about three hours away and have a boy and a girl, Calen is 10 and Mia is 5. 

They are all just perfect kids. Only other Grandparents can understand, but it seems Grandkids are just perfect angles when it comes to Grandparents. I can tell you their parents were not perfect by any means, but their offspring are just perfect, we truly are blessed! * They are our reward for bringing up our kids the way we did! Of course, you already knew that!!!*


----------



## diane0905

Logan and I had a fun time today at our lesson — here’s a couple of photos from it. We were able to stay a couple of hours after our lesson and watch a guy and lady training about 10 different dogs. There were also two men there from Michigan who are judges and I really enjoyed listening to their tips. They liked Logan. Cara (trainer) invited me to come this weekend because they are holding an event at her place where dogs will be getting their working certificates. She said they will be doing some stuff just for fun with the dogs also, so to bring Logan. It will be good for him to be in the environment.


----------



## Prism Goldens

Are they doing day-of entries for the WC? Even if he doesn't yet have a double, it would be worth the dollars to have the experience.


----------



## diane0905

Prism Goldens said:


> Are they doing day-of entries for the WC? Even if he doesn't yet have a double, it would be worth the dollars to have the experience.


I will find out. To be honest, I just watched a 17 minute AKC video to see what a WC entails. Is it comparable to a BN and moving on to a CD? It looks like a WC is slightly less than what we have to do for JH?


----------



## Prism Goldens

It might be a breed specific WC/X test and if not Goldens, no way to enter. 
Distance is way less than in a JH test- but there is a double instead of two singles- he'd need to watch both birds drop, go get the second, then you'd send him for the memory bird.


----------



## diane0905

Prism Goldens said:


> It might be a breed specific WC/X test and if not Goldens, no way to enter.
> Distance is way less than in a JH test- but there is a double instead of two singles- he'd need to watch both birds drop, go get the second, then you'd send him for the memory bird.


Thanks. We’ve done doubles with bumpers on land, but I feel like Logan would remember in water also — especially for a bird. It may be breed specific. I’ve asked Cara and she said she would ask the chairwoman, but I feel like Cara mentioned Tollers to one of the men when she was talking to them about the weekend.


----------



## Prism Goldens

I don't see a SE test on entryexpress that's breed specific, the Sandlapper club has one 4-24, in Grey Court SC- and I have a buddy who's judging a FCR one soon, but I dk where it is assume SE somewhere, and that one is breed limited. So-just googled.. they aren't using EE. 
It's March 26, 2022 and March 27, 2022
Camden, SC
Host: NSDTRC (USA), Region 6
Location: 872 Gary Road, Camden, SC
Stakes Offered: BRT, WC, WCI, WCX
Test Chair: Deborah Rhodes, [email protected]
Premium: Available

and we let Tollers enter our events, so maybe they'll let you enter theirs for a little quiet time (since Logan does no tolling) LOL~


----------



## diane0905

Prism Goldens said:


> I don't see a SE test on entryexpress that's breed specific, the Sandlapper club has one 4-24, in Grey Court SC- and I have a buddy who's judging a FCR one soon, but I dk where it is assume SE somewhere, and that one is breed limited. So-just googled.. they aren't using EE.
> It's March 26, 2022 and March 27, 2022
> Camden, SC
> Host: NSDTRC (USA), Region 6
> Location: 872 Gary Road, Camden, SC
> Stakes Offered: BRT, WC, WCI, WCX
> Test Chair: Deborah Rhodes, [email protected]
> Premium: Available
> 
> and we let Tollers enter our events, so maybe they'll let you enter theirs for a little quiet time (since Logan does no tolling) LOL~


You’re good. I couldn’t find it. Thank you!


----------



## diane0905

They didn’t let Logan enter, but he was allowed to do some retrieving while we were there. He did a double on land and was perfect coming back into heel and giving me the duck. He just did bumper retrieves in the water (no opportunity to try a double with ducks) and he also helped by going in to get a duck a Toller missed. Is it called pick up dog? No idea.

Logan was the prettiest dog. 😅



















This is Cara in the video tossing the bumper. 








Logan at a Toller trial







youtube.com


----------



## Prism Goldens

Definately prettiest dog! And yes- pick up dog!


----------



## DblTrblGolden2

Congratulations! It was great he got to be the pick up dog. There is a WC/WCX the first week of May in NC. It's at the GRCA Eastern Regional Specialty.


----------



## diane0905

DblTrblGolden2 said:


> Congratulations! It was great he got to be the pick up dog. There is a WC/WCX the first week of May in NC. It's at the GRCA Eastern Regional Specialty.


Thank you. I joined the GRCA and have requested a member log in. They said I should get my first newsletter at the end of April. My husband has been to Pinehurst for golf, but I have not been there. I am waiting to hear from a handler for conformation, so Logan may be gone then. Not sure yet, but if he isn’t it would be fun to do this. I’m waiting for notification from Sandlapper Golden Retriever Club as to membership also — have already met them via Zoom. I’m hoping being a member of each of these will make me more aware as to what is going on in my general area.

He was a good pick up dog. I wasn’t sure he would know where the first duck was as he wasn’t down there when it was tossed, but he found it and retrieved.


----------



## diane0905

Prism Goldens said:


> Definately prettiest dog! And yes- pick up dog!


There was another Golden there who I suppose had a Toller sibling. She was a pretty girl and Logan looked at her and then at me like he knew they were very similar. Either that or he approved of her looks. She was not getting muddy like Logan. Lol


----------



## diane0905

I have another question. 

Oh, and Logan is beginning to work on casting now and doing so well. She said a natural. I often throw tennis balls in different places and send him after pointing one by one as to which one I want him to get. Maybe that helped with this. I also dropped 4 bumpers in different locations today and he retrieved all four as I sent him. 

My trainer has suggested several times I order gloves for duck handling in training. Do y’all use gloves? I’ve just been grabbing the nasty things and hand sanitizing after training. 😅 If you do use gloves, do you have a preference. She said riding gloves. Is there a particular brand you buy if you use them?

Since I didn’t do the spring test, the next one nearby with the more local club is in November. I see some in North Carolina before then. My trainer says he’s ready now. We are just going to keep training and learning more so, hopefully, after he gets JH we can continue on.


----------



## DblTrblGolden2

diane0905 said:


> My trainer has suggested several times I order gloves for duck handling in training. Do y’all use gloves? I’ve just been grabbing the nasty things and hand sanitizing after training. 😅 If you do use gloves, do you have a preference. She said riding gloves. Is there a particular brand you buy if you use them?


I tried wearing gloves, but then you are just wearing nasty gloves. I have hand sanitizer wipes, and hand sanitizer in my truck. When I go to put Cruz back in his box after we run I wipe my hands as part of my routine. The gloves just seemed like something extra to deal with. If I have a cut on my hand or something I will wear a latex, or doctors glove, on that hand. Nasty old birds have to carry all kinds of things I don't want lol

Sounds like your making good progress.


----------



## diane0905

DblTrblGolden2 said:


> I tried wearing gloves, but then you are just wearing nasty gloves. I have hand sanitizer wipes, and hand sanitizer in my truck. When I go to put Cruz back in his box after we run I wipe my hands as part of my routine. The gloves just seemed like something extra to deal with. If I have a cut on my hand or something I will wear a latex, or doctors glove, on that hand. Nasty old birds have to carry all kinds of things I don't want lol
> 
> Sounds like your making good progress.


Thank you. They are nasty. I have to push it out of my mind. Lol No telling what they carry. I can see where the gloves would get disgusting also. Yuck.


----------



## SRW

diane0905 said:


> My trainer has suggested several times I order gloves for duck handling in training. Do y’all use gloves? I’ve just been grabbing the nasty things and hand sanitizing after training.


One hand for ducks, one and for a sandwich. Before switching hands always wipe the duck hand off on your pants first.


----------



## PalouseDogs

Gloves are one more thing to lose in the field, but I hate the dead duck odor on my hands, especially when they get rank, so I try to make an effort to wear them. I’m always happier at the end of the day or just before lunch if I’ve been wearing the gloves. Any gloves with a non-permeable palm and finger area work, like gardening gloves with a cloth back and a rubber or nitrile palm and fingers. All cloth or leather gloves will allow moisture to soak through. You can toss the gloves in the washer periodically.

Funny story. A few days ago, after a training session, I had put my wingers away and was ready to break for lunch and move to water. I realized I was missing a glove. I decided to eat lunch first and then walk the field where I thought I’d been. While I was eating, I let the dogs run around the field and do dog stuff. Partway through lunch, Hawthorn came back from his explorations carrying the missing glove. Retrievers are so handy.


----------



## diane0905

Thanks y’all!

True statement: I can’t smell the ducks. Any. No idea why. I can smell the swampy smell after Logan has been in the water, but only when he gets in the car.


----------



## diane0905

I will bump this thread up again. 

My trainer sent me a link this morning for a Poodle Club’s WC/WCX in October they are having at her kennel/land/where we regularly train. 

I’m going to enter Logan as it is approved by the GRCA and open to Flat Coats & Goldens if the 30 Poodle spots aren’t filled up.

It’s October 22nd.

There are two separate weekend JH tests coming up in the fall in Cheraw, SC I plan to enter also.

Fun!


----------



## diane0905

We worked with our first live birds today. Logan did great. For the first one, he circled about four times and the duck kept going completely under the water. On the last circle, Logan went for it faster and got it. It was moving around, but he brought it back to me in heel. The next few times, he did great. That was entertaining!


----------



## diane0905

Logan is signed up for the WC on October 22. I saw on the GRCA website they used to offer a video of the WC, but it now says sold out and they may make it available — I guess via streaming? Anyway, I wish I could get a copy. I’m pretty sure I do a double on land and two singles on water based on what I read. Logan is trained now to deliver the duck to hand and has worked with live birds also. I feel more comfortable having him signed up for this. It once again is specific to a certain breed — Poodles — but it looks like we will be fine as far as staying in the group unless they get 30 to sign up. Currently, I think it’s only about eight dogs or so.

There are two JH double weekends coming up in November & early December in Cheraw. There are a couple of other doubles within driving distance on the schedule also. So, we are going to try for JH this fall also.

That is our mission…

We shall be posting an update as to our success or lack thereof. 



















Game face:


----------



## diane0905

Logan did his first “would fail the WC test” blunder today. We were doing doubles on land and on the memory bird he went out and searched, but gave up and ran back to the first bird location. He’s never done that. The wind is really picking up because we are under a tropical storm warning. Could that have messed him up? He did great on all of his other doubles. We stuck to land today and I was happy because I don’t have to bathe him on a yucky weather day.

Photos to add interest:


----------



## DblTrblGolden2

diane0905 said:


> Logan did his first “would fail the WC test” blunder today. We were doing doubles on land and on the memory bird he went out and searched, but gave up and ran back to the first bird location. He’s never done that. The wind is really picking up because we are under a tropical storm warning. Could that have messed him up? He did great on all of his other doubles. We stuck to land today and I was happy because I don’t have to bathe him on a yucky weather day.


Was it a tight, close together, set up? You can't handle in a WC, but if he will sit whistle and handle at all I would have handled him to avoid returning to the old fall. The other option would be that if you were training with people, or electronics in the blinds, they could have stepped out and given a "hey, hey", or bird call, to draw him back to the correct location.

On the other hand one blunder is just a blunder. Cruz ran a really tight, complicated triple this morning and switched. I didn't correct it and let it go because I am running a test this weekend. It is the first time he's ever switched, and it was so tight for him I'm not sure he realized he did switch. Everyone in my training group had an opinion on how I should have handled it. The thing is that I know Cruz. I'm never running that set up in a Senior Hunt test, it would be yucky for a Master test. I didn't want to get on him today and ruin his confidence going into the weekend. I also noticed that after Cruz ran (first dog out) all of my master hunt training group friends ran that series as singles. lol

Sometimes it's a bad setup. I shouldn't have run it this morning. My fault, not the dogs. I maybe should have handled but I realized as soon as the birds went down it was ugly. I won't run first next week


----------



## diane0905

Cara, my trainer, was by the winger because it malfunctioned. She was behind a tree in the set up. She called him back over and he came, but he had already made it over there. She told me what to do to handle it from where I was at, but he is not trained to sit on whistle yet. It was somewhat close together. When she called him back in the right direction he retrieved the duck and brought it back to heel. 

Switch! That’s what it’s called and I couldn’t think of it.

I was wondering if the wind was really throwing the scent off. We have Ian coming closer and our weather is starting to show it.

I was thinking in my head, “Now, he’s going to start messing up. He must know I’ve signed us up for something.”  

Thank you.


----------



## DblTrblGolden2

Yup, it's called a switch. Goldens are famous for having great noses, so wind is a definite factor. Without being there I can't say if the wind contributed. We all think "Great I entered a test and now this is going to happen". We also all stand at the line and pray it doesn't happen during the test 😂


----------



## SRW

diane0905 said:


> We were doing doubles on land and on the memory bird he went out and searched, but gave up and ran back to the first bird location.





diane0905 said:


> Switch! That’s what it’s called


Yep, that’s what it’s called. It’s a cardinal sin for a retriever.


DblTrblGolden2 said:


> We also all stand at the line and pray it doesn't happen during the test


Praying won’t work, if you let it happen it will continue to happen. Set up a situation to entice a switch so you can teach that it is wrong. Once the dog is taught you cannot ever allow it to happen, stern correction is warranted for switching.


----------



## diane0905

DblTrblGolden2 said:


> Yup, it's called a switch. Goldens are famous for having great noses, so wind is a definite factor. Without being there I can't say if the wind contributed. We all think "Great I entered a test and now this is going to happen". We also all stand at the line and pray it doesn't happen during the test 😂


I will treat it like I did job interviews back in the day. I figured I couldn’t leave the interview with anything less than what I walked in with and the same will be true for his WC. I still get to bring my very sweet, beautiful, and smart dog home.


----------



## diane0905

SRW said:


> Yep, that’s what it’s called. It’s a cardinal sin for a retriever.
> 
> Praying won’t work, if you let it happen it will continue to happen. Set up a situation to entice a switch so you can teach that it is wrong. Once the dog is taught you cannot ever allow it to happen, stern correction is warranted for switching.


She told me how to correct it if he did it again, but he only did it that one time incorrectly. He may have been out of sorts because the winger malfunctioned several times before he was allowed to run — with walking back and forth going on to try to get it to function properly — but the duck call went off each time.


----------



## DblTrblGolden2

@SRW I love your new signature line 😂🤣🤦‍♀️


----------



## JerseyChris

DblTrblGolden2 said:


> @SRW I love your new signature line 😂🤣🤦‍♀️


Just saw that... LOL


----------



## diane0905

I’ve been reading and obsessing, like I do  , and over on Retriever Net or whatever it’s called, reading about switching. Is a double supposed to be a 90 degree angle? The one we did was more like a 45 degree angle.

We train again on Tuesday and there’s going to be a two year old young lady Golden Retriever there. I hope she’s not overly pretty. Lol It’s supposed to be in the 40s temperature wise. Logan will be fine. His southern momma will freeze.


----------



## SRW

diane0905 said:


> Is a double supposed to be a 90 degree angle?


The separation of a double can be anything from 180 degrees to 1 degree. In general, the difficulty increases as the marks are tightened up. 
Here is a link to last years National Derby Championship





2020 National Derby







2020nrdc.blogspot.com




All dogs are under 2 years old the first 9 series are doubles. 
The degree of separation is just one factor that contributes to the difficulty of a double, usually it is a minor one. 

A big factor for young dogs is losing sight of the gun in route. For instance: On rolling terrain with a long memory mark, say 250 yards, and a go bird at 100 yards. Separation could be well over 45 degrees. The dog picks up the go bird and is sent for the memory mark. Soon after leaving the line the dog loses sight of the long gun but the short gun is still there and very visible (maybe it was a flier). A lot of temptation for a young dog. The dog needs to know that going back to the short gun is not an option and have the confidence to keep running to the memory mark. On top of it all, in route there may be water and cover changes, cross wind, bushes or hay bales all pushing the dogs and forcing them to make decisions. 

In short, doubles come in many levels of difficulty.
The first thing a dog has to be taught about doubles is that switching is not an option. Teach, Teach, and Teach some more first. At some point you need to set the dog up to switch in very controlled, black and white, situations and then correct. By "black and white" I mean the dog KNOWS he switched, gave in to temptation.

As I said previously, switching (going back to an old fall) is a cardinal sin for a retriever.


----------



## SRW

How the birds are thrown in a double also contributes to the difficulty. 
In general, both marks thrown outward is easier than both thrown inward (pinched). 
A *bunch* of variable factors here as well.


----------



## diane0905

Thank you for the advice, SRW. I don’t think about Logan’s age so much as we got such a late start at two years old. He will be three on November 28th. I knew zero about field stuff and wasn’t even thinking along those lines. We just decided to take what we could get after a while, and that worked out because he loves this training the most. I like to be outdoors, so it’s a win/win.

Both birds were launched to the right by wingers.

Cool photos — thanks for the link.

My goals are real simple right now. We are going to give the WC a try in October and then JH later this fall. Hopefully, a CD and an NA eventually, since we’ve put time into both of those.


----------



## diane0905

Logan’s WC is tomorrow. Since I signed up, Logan had a couple of just okay training sessions, then our trainer got COVID, then Logan got a rash and a Hellacious looking place on his testicles. The first round of antibiotics didn’t work, but caused him to pant and pee excessively to the point he had two accidents in the house — which he does not do, and the second seems to have him feeling much better but the testicle issue is so slow resolving. It’s dry now though — just still a bit crusty/scabby. He’s still on the antibiotics.

All that said, we trained Thursday with our recovering trainer and Logan did well. We are taking our WC via a Poodle Club. There are 10 total for the WC, with 8 being poodles. The other two are Goldens and Logan is number 9 in the order. The other Golden is older and has his JH and quite a few other titles. It’s probably pretty because it has its CH, but not prettier than Logan — obviously.  We met some of the poodles and their people. Some of them had the Pom Pom cut — whatever it is called. Logan didn’t seem very impressed. Lol 

I didn’t train Logan today — we walked and played fetch. He trained the two days before. My back hurts because I gardened a lot today.

That’s it. Lol We trained enough before all the excitement started going on, so we’ll go in positive and, hopefully, do well.  Feel free to send good vibes in our direction.


----------



## DblTrblGolden2

Good luck tomorrow !


----------



## SRW

Good luck and if you can sit through watching eight poodles do anything you are far tougher than I am.


----------



## diane0905

SRW said:


> Good luck and if you can sit through watching eight poodles do anything you are far tougher than I am.


We watched some of them a bit during our last training session. When we walked up my trainer asked if Logan could sit there and watch them for a bit. The lady said, “Yes, as long as you don’t let him run out there and attack one of our dogs.” 😂 I told her he would just sit there and watch and I wasn’t letting his leash go. He was just sitting there not doing a thing so it’s not like his behavior prompted the remark. She said some man had let his Lab loose and it attacked one of their dogs trying to take the bumper (not that day/location) and it was important for it to be a positive experience for the dogs.

Anyway, we only watched about 10 minutes and moved on along to train without Logan having taken down any of the poodles. Lol


----------



## JerseyChris

Good Luck !!! Go get em' Logan !!!


----------



## SRW

diane0905 said:


> She said some man had let his Lab loose and it attacked one of their dogs trying to take the bumper


Probably thought it was a stuffed toy and was trying to retrieve it.


----------



## hollyk

Good luck!


----------



## diane0905

Thank y’all for all the well wishes, but we had to do the walk of shame. Logan was next to last in the order. I aired him out twice while we waited. He was in the car a couple of hours. He went out on the double, spent some time sniffing the crate of live birds in the gunner’s holding blind and then came back to me. I asked them if I could resend him and they said yes, so I did and then he got the bird and brought it back into heel. On the memory bird, he looked in the next blind and I guess there wasn’t a cage of live birds so he redirected to the mark and brought it back into heel.

The judges were super nice and helpful. I said to them thanks and he seemed to get more on as he went along. They agreed and the lady judge said Logan sure is beautiful.

My only thoughts are I had no idea there would be live birds in the gunner’s holding blind. I guess there’s a way to practice to get them used to that?

Also, I will see if there is any shareable video when I get home, but my husband was the videographer and we aren’t in the screen very much. Just blowing grass. 😅

I guess there were about five who didn’t pass out of the group.

We are not deterred and I’m glad to have given Logan the opportunity. We are still planning on signing up for the JH in November and December.


----------



## SRW

diane0905 said:


> My only thoughts are I had no idea there would be live birds in the gunner’s holding blind. I guess there’s a way to practice to get them used to that?


Shoot live flyers every week or two in training.
I would not have expected live birds at that event either. There can be a live flyer at a junior hunt test but most often there is not.


----------



## diane0905

SRW said:


> Shoot live flyers every week or two in training.
> I would not have expected live birds at that event either. There can be a live flyer at a junior hunt test but most often there is not.


Yes, they were shooting ducks for the WC/X. One even landed and ran on foot. I really have to find groups to train with. Private training is good, but that was a lot of new things for him. It was a lot of fun, but I like success. We have trained once with a group up in the mountains. They were great.


----------



## SRW

Just letting your pup chase a pigeon or duck with clipped or tied wings is great training.
Any time there are live birds shot for an event some of them will not be shot dead. Dogs that have never retrieved a live bird are likely to avoid them. Happened with one young dog at the Q I judged last weekend.
Once the dogs get used to live birds the next challenge is getting them to focus on the other marks when there is a flyer station in the field.


----------



## diane0905

SRW said:


> Just letting your pup chase a pigeon or duck with clipped or tied wings is great training.
> Any time there are live birds shot for an event some of them will not be shot dead. Dogs that have never retrieved a live bird are likely to avoid them. Happened with one young dog at the Q I judged last weekend.
> Once the dogs get used to live birds the next challenge is getting them to focus on the other marks when there is a flyer station in the field.


Thanks for all your advice. It’s very helpful. Logan has retrieved one live duck and seemed fine with it. I have never trained with anyone shooting one for training.


----------



## SRW

There will always be live fliers, at least one, in Senior and master tests and in every stake at a field trial.
Instead of shooting them in training some people put a baby sock over a ducks head. They will not fly very far. Throw them up in the air and shoot a blank gun. You can use them a bunch of times that way.


----------



## diane0905

SRW said:


> There will always be live fliers, at least one, in Senior and master tests and in every stake at a field trial.


It didn’t bother us. I just didn’t know there was a crate of live birds in that blind. Logan wouldn’t have either if he went straight to the mark.


----------



## DblTrblGolden2

On the East Coast, or at least my area, we normally have a live flyer as one of the singles on land in a JH. I also had one in my WC/WCX. It’s good to practice on them in case you get one that’s still a little alive. We never get flyers on water.


----------



## SRW

diane0905 said:


> I just didn’t know there was a crate of live birds in that blind.


There are always crates full of birds when there is a flier in a test. Usually the crates a purposely visible from the line.


----------



## diane0905

SRW said:


> There are always crates full of birds when there is a flier in a test. Usually the crates a purposely visible from the line.


Oh. It was not visible, although the dead ducks were hanging nearby. He wasn’t interested in those. The poodle people ended up being friendly, so it was a fun morning.


----------



## diane0905

Here we are waiting our turn with no knowledge we were going to be felled by ducks. Lol


----------



## SRW

diane0905 said:


> although the dead ducks were hanging nearby. He wasn’t interested in those.


That's good, dogs need to be taught to ignore the birds hanging on the rack. It can be a problem for some, especially dogs that are trained mostly with bumpers. 
Young dogs will will often try to grab birds back after you take them or chase them as you hang them on a rack, toss them or hand them to a training partner or judge. Never try to move the bird away if your dog trys to grab at it, that just entices them more. The dog should understand "No-No" from their obedience training. I will tempt the dog after taking a bird or bumper, swing it back and forth in front of or around the dogs head. Start with bumpers and work up to birds. Be patient and teach, the dog need to know the bird are yours not his.


----------



## 3goldens2keep

Years ago I was running my young male GR in a JH test. As we came up to the line, I did not know that the last shot flyer in the rack, had not been fully dispatched! My boy came up to the line with me and set down on command. I signaled for the first bird, just as I did that, the bird in the rack started flopping and kicking, my boy cranked his head around to see what was going on. At the same time the first bird was thrown. He never saw it. The next mark he saw and when released he promptly fetched and delivered to hand. The memory bird did not exist in his mind, when I tried to send him he ran and stopped about 10' out, looking back at me with know idea what I was asking him to do. As a JH I had not yet started working on blinds and handling...so that was the end of our day.

Funny things do happen...just expect it!


----------



## diane0905

3goldens2keep said:


> Years ago I was running my young male GR in a JH test. As we came up to the line, I did not know that the last shot flyer in the rack, had not been fully dispatched! My boy came up to the line with me and set down on command. I signaled for the first bird, just as I did that, the bird in the rack started flopping and kicking, my boy cranked his head around to see what was going on. At the same time the first bird was thrown. He never saw it. The next mark he saw and when released he promptly fetched and delivered to hand. The memory bird did not exist in his mind, when I tried to send him he ran and stopped about 10' out, looking back at me with know idea what I was asking him to do. As a JH I had not yet started working on blinds and handling...so that was the end of our day.
> 
> Funny things do happen...just expect it!


Sounds familiar. Lol

I was proud of myself for not feeling nervous or discouraged with Logan. We will just go back to the drawing board to train some more. My trainer watched us, so I’m sure she knows what further we need to work on. I appreciate the encouragement and tips I get from all of you.


----------



## diane0905

Here’s a few photos from our run:

This is where Logan veered off to visit Enrique. It made me sad because he was running straight for the mark before his detour. Enrique said if he was going to get a visitor, it sure was a sweet face. Lol










Here he is coming in with the memory bird:










This is the first bird after he had done his visiting shenanigans:










That’s the memory bird and my trainer, Cara, from behind:










This is me smiling as I start my shame walk:


----------



## hollyk

I like your attitude. Enjoy the adventure. 
I have a couple of master dogs and have qualified at the last 2 Master Nationals. But I still can feel the pride and joy of my 1st JH title.
Train, have fun and try again.


----------



## 3goldens2keep

diane0905 said:


> Here’s a few photos from our run:
> 
> This is where Logan veered off to visit Enrique. It made me sad because he was running straight for the mark before his detour. Enrique said if he was going to get a visitor, it sure was a sweet face. Lol
> 
> This is me smiling as I start my shame walk:



I had my Senior Hunter boy, visit the live flyer blind in a recent Master Hunter Test! He thought the sounds and smell of all those ducks was much better then the dead one laying out in the cover. He also liked the young guys in the 'blind'! Needless, to say I had a shame walk away from the line...Although, he now has a pass for MH...finally!


----------



## SRW

3goldens2keep said:


> Years ago I was running my young male GR in a JH test. As we came up to the line, I did not know that the last shot flyer in the rack, had not been fully dispatched! My boy came up to the line with me and set down on command. I signaled for the first bird, just as I did that, the bird in the rack started flopping and kicking, my boy cranked his head around to see what was going on. At the same time the first bird was thrown. He never saw it. The next mark he saw and when released he promptly fetched and delivered to hand. The memory bird did not exist in his mind, when I tried to send him he ran and stopped about 10' out, looking back at me with know idea what I was asking him to do. As a JH I had not yet started working on blinds and handling...so that was the end of our day.
> 
> Funny things do happen...just expect it!


First, in that scenario I think you probably should’ve been given a no-bird rerun. The bird rack should also be behind the line.
Second, was this an SH test? There are no memory birds in a junior test, just four single marks.


----------



## 3goldens2keep

SRW said:


> First, in that scenario I think you probably should’ve been given a no-bird rerun. The bird rack should also be behind the line.
> Second, was this an SH test? There are no memory birds in a junior test, just four single marks.


I have additional situations over the years that should have been a 'no bird'! But, I have yet to get a no bird at any level, and I have asked, when I felt it was appropriate...

The above scenario happened many years ago, when I first started running hunt test with my male Golden Max. It was a Junior Hunt Test. The bird rack was behind the line, a bit to the left as I face the mark. It was 3-4yds back. My above discussion on a 'memory bird' was from my 72-year-old memory, therefore I cannot tell you exactly what happened after the first failed mark...but it is funny how we clearly one recalls these situations like this, when running hunt tests...


----------



## SRW

3goldens2keep said:


> I have additional situations over the years that should have been a 'no bird'! But, I have yet to get a no bird second change, as any level...


Only thing worse than a 'no bird' is when you should get one but do not.
Was it a senior test?


----------



## diane0905

Just by way of update, the last couple of times we‘ve trained my trainer has set up all sorts of distractions for Logan having to do with the holding blind. 

The first time we went back to train after our test, Cara set up the same scenario with live ducks in a crate and she was in the blind. Logan, of course, did the run perfect since we weren‘t doing a test. lol 

Today, Blake (who runs a training group & judges at times for hunt tests) was in the blind and he threw a bag full of ducks about five feet outside of the blind where Logan could see it. Logan looked like he almost was going to detour (didn’t, but looked), but when I hit the whistle he redirected to me. The second time we ran, Blake even hollered “Good boy! Good boy!” from the blind to Logan, but Logan returned to me as I whistled. He was going to get a correction if he headed to the blind, but Logan couldn’t be fooled.  

We were lucky today also because we trained with a group — one other Golden, two Chesapeake Bay Retrievers, and two Labrador Retrievers. One of the Labs is named Moon and she’s more advanced. It was so much fun to watch her. I kept Logan there an extra hour beyond our training so he could watch the other dogs work. He did well.

Today we did two water retrieves, two retrieves involving land and water, and two land retrieves. They also had plenty of people walking all around close by him swinging ducks and such. He was minding his P’s and Q’s today.

One older man had something called a boomer. Is that what it is? Propane run. Blake had his gun.


----------



## diane0905

I also have another question — asking for a friend  . If a hunt test has 433 (OMG!) dogs in it and includes Master I and II, plus Senior, and Junior — and it’s listed at 8:00 a.m. for each one, is it more than likely going to be all split up on different fields? I guess that’s a yes. It’s a huge facility. They wouldn’t get it done otherwise. There are 38 Junior entries.


----------



## Golden Gibby

Thunder equipment makes a shotgun simulator otherwise known as a boom gun. They have a web site.
there may be other manufacturers also, the Thunder equipment is what I’m familiar with.
As for the question about splitting up tests, yes they are typically split up and run in different fields.


----------



## diane0905

Golden Gibby said:


> Thunder equipment makes a shotgun simulator otherwise known as a boom gun. They have a web site.
> there may be other manufacturers also, the Thunder equipment is what I’m familiar with.
> As for the question about splitting up tests, yes they are typically split up and run in different fields.


Thank you!


----------



## SRW

diane0905 said:


> One older man had something called a boomer.


The increased cost and scarcity of 209 primers has made gas guns or "boomers" more popular.
Thunder makes them and charges a fortune for them. There are others that make them as well. I had a local machine shop make a bunch of them,. They are better and cost less than the Thunders.
A $12 gas cylinder will last 7 to 9 months with daily use.


----------



## diane0905

SRW said:


> The increased cost and scarcity of 209 primers has made gas guns or "boomers" more popular.
> Thunder makes them and charges a fortune for them. There are others that make them as well. I had a local machine shop make a bunch of them,. They are better and cost less than the Thunders.
> A $12 gas cylinder will last 7 to 9 months with daily use.


I assumed from context a 209 primer is ammunition. I then googled to see. Apparently, supply chain issues like everything else. Thanks.


----------



## SRW

diane0905 said:


> I assumed from context a 209 primer is ammunition.


Shotgun shell primers. In addition to being a component of ammunition they are used in many blank pistols.


----------



## MillionsofPeaches

Diane...I read your posts. I giggle because I was exactly like you ten years ago....I had conformation goldens (in fact sired by your breeder one of which I helped with OS!) and both of the breeders supported and encouraged me like they are doing you right now. I was so enthusiastic just like you. When I went to my first junior I had no idea there was a live flyer and never worked with a live duck with my girls. I cried privately afterwards because my dog went right to it and wouldn't pick it up and I was so upset I hadn't prepared for that. I admire your laughter during your experience and now I am the same way but at the time I was embarrassed and frustrated. But afterwards I was like you and worked and worked and then ended up getting a SH down the road. After that I went to field and got crazier and crazier and just won my first open a couple weeks ago. The point I'm making is be prepared. You are starting off exactly like me. You may be totally addicted ten years later....It costs a lot and takes a tremendous amount of time but truly there is nothing I'd rather be doing...Good luck and keep up the positive attitude! I'm excited for you!!!! And by the way, I have two boom guns....Christmas presents...ha ha ha...see you will be in the same boat a few years down the road!!! ha ha


----------



## JerseyChris

I have a question, to get the dogs used to gun shots we have a trap field quite close to my house. I can just go out there and just shoot a few rounds. Would you just keep the dogs in crates behind where I would be shooting from or have someone actually hold them? I assume this would be a helpful exercise to prepare the dogs for any future hunt/fiend work? I know my older boy who is 3 would prob not care at all as nothing really bothers him but my new Pup who is 12 weeks I would like to get him used to the loud noises. Also just want to make sure I have the dogs far enough away to not hurt their ears..


----------



## MillionsofPeaches

If I were going to do it that way, I'd have treats and be playing with the dogs while in the distance the gun shots were going off. When they react I'd be very nonchalant and just continue playing and drop a couple treats. I would want my pups to sort of be distracted and not pay much mind to those shots so they became second nature sounds for them.


----------



## SRW

JerseyChris said:


> I have a question, to get the dogs used to gun shots we have a trap field quite close to my house. I can just go out there and just shoot a few rounds. Would you just keep the dogs in crates behind where I would be shooting from or have someone actually hold them? I assume this would be a helpful exercise to prepare the dogs for any future hunt/fiend work? I know my older boy who is 3 would prob not care at all as nothing really bothers him but my new Pup who is 12 weeks I would like to get him used to the loud noises. Also just want to make sure I have the dogs far enough away to not hurt their ears..


I would not do that.
Busy right now, I will explain later.


----------



## DblTrblGolden2

JerseyChris said:


> I have a question, to get the dogs used to gun shots we have a trap field quite close to my house. I can just go out there and just shoot a few rounds. Would you just keep the dogs in crates behind where I would be shooting from or have someone actually hold them? I assume this would be a helpful exercise to prepare the dogs for any future hunt/fiend work? I know my older boy who is 3 would prob not care at all as nothing really bothers him but my new Pup who is 12 weeks I would like to get him used to the loud noises. Also just want to make sure I have the dogs far enough away to not hurt their ears..


In a hunt test you don't shoot, the shot comes from in the field. It's not always far away, but normally at least 40 yards. I would not (WOULD NOT) take a puppy to a shooting range, or a sporting clay range for introduction to gun fire. I would introduce it slowly from a far distance, say 100 yards, and then start coming closer. You want it to draw the dogs attention, but not be loud and startle them. I am only so set on this because my husband was an avid sporting clay shooter. I can't tell you how many shoots I judged and the men had the wives bring the cute little puppies to watch. The dogs were over excited and most terrified. It is not a good way to introduce a dog to the sound of a gun shot.


----------



## Golden Gibby

Jerseychris, Hard no on taking pup to trap range for gunfire exposure. Usually what I do with a puppy is make noise when calling them to eat. Starting with banging food bowl while calling them to eat then graduating to firing a cap gun and feeding or giving treats. Then gunfire at a distance in the field with a bird retrieve. By then they associate gunfire as good and exciting.


----------



## PalouseDogs

JerseyChris said:


> I have a question, to get the dogs used to gun shots we have a trap field quite close to my house. I can just go out there and just shoot a few rounds. Would you just keep the dogs in crates behind where I would be shooting from or have someone actually hold them? I assume this would be a helpful exercise to prepare the dogs for any future hunt/fiend work? I know my older boy who is 3 would prob not care at all as nothing really bothers him but my new Pup who is 12 weeks I would like to get him used to the loud noises. Also just want to make sure I have the dogs far enough away to not hurt their ears..


As others have said, hard NO. Retrieving desire first, then associate gunshots with the retrieve. When they will do a 100-yard retrieve (and are EXCITED about it), have the thrower toss a bird or bumper 100 yards away and fire a starter pistol with a quieter blank. Build up to closer distance and louder blanks. 

Birds are best, since most dogs get more excited about birds than bumpers, but I've never had access to those at the times I was introducing dogs to gunshots. If your dog loves bumpers, those will work fine. 

I introduced my first retriever to gunfire when she was 3 or 4 years old. I was warned that she was likely too old. Hah! Total non-issue. She loved retrieving, especially birds. Gunfire was a great thing in her mind.


----------



## diane0905

MillionsofPeaches said:


> Diane...I read your posts. I giggle because I was exactly like you ten years ago....I had conformation goldens (in fact sired by your breeder one of which I helped with OS!) and both of the breeders supported and encouraged me like they are doing you right now. I was so enthusiastic just like you. When I went to my first junior I had no idea there was a live flyer and never worked with a live duck with my girls. I cried privately afterwards because my dog went right to it and wouldn't pick it up and I was so upset I hadn't prepared for that. I admire your laughter during your experience and now I am the same way but at the time I was embarrassed and frustrated. But afterwards I was like you and worked and worked and then ended up getting a SH down the road. After that I went to field and got crazier and crazier and just won my first open a couple weeks ago. The point I'm making is be prepared. You are starting off exactly like me. You may be totally addicted ten years later....It costs a lot and takes a tremendous amount of time but truly there is nothing I'd rather be doing...Good luck and keep up the positive attitude! I'm excited for you!!!! And by the way, I have two boom guns....Christmas presents...ha ha ha...see you will be in the same boat a few years down the road!!! ha ha


Thank you for the encouragement!

The first time my trainer brought a duck out to me she was holding it by its legs and it was just hanging upside down not moving. I thought it was dead, and being a city girl, just taking in/processing the upside down dead duck experience as Logan was sniffing away like crazy at it. Next, the trainer turned it over as she stood right beside me and it started flapping its wings like crazy and she released it to take flight. I jumped so badly. Lolol Logan chased it to the water’s edge and I called him back. That was a good day because she said, “He has excellent obedience.“ He’s now shown her he also sometimes has another side to his personality. Lol

Logan has retrieved one live flyer and didn’t seem to care if the bird was flapping/alive as he picked it up, so I hope that’s a good sign.


----------



## JerseyChris

DblTrblGolden2 said:


> In a hunt test you don't shoot, the shot comes from in the field. It's not always far away, but normally at least 40 yards. I would not (WOULD NOT) take a puppy to a shooting range, or a sporting clay range for introduction to gun fire. I would introduce it slowly from a far distance, say 100 yards, and then start coming closer. You want it to draw the dogs attention, but not be loud and startle them. I am only so set on this because my husband was an avid sporting clay shooter. I can't tell you how many shoots I judged and the men had the wives bring the cute little puppies to watch. The dogs were over excited and most terrified. It is not a good way to introduce a dog to the sound of a gun shot.


I am about as green as they come but I knew we were not shooting.. lol I do have plenty of gun experience fortunately, but was curious on how to introduce the dogs to the noise mostly. Having never been to a hunt/field setup I have no idea where or even how they do it. I am sure a lot of my questions will be answered by going to see one in person.


----------



## 3goldens2keep

JerseyChris said:


> I have a question, to get the dogs used to gun shots we have a trap field quite close to my house. I can just go out there and just shoot a few rounds. Would you just keep the dogs in crates behind where I would be shooting from or have someone actually hold them? I assume this would be a helpful exercise to prepare the dogs for any future hunt/fiend work? I know my older boy who is 3 would prob not care at all as nothing really bothers him but my new Pup who is 12 weeks I would like to get him used to the loud noises. Also just want to make sure I have the dogs far enough away to not hurt their ears..


I have always used a trap/ skeet operation to get my pups trained to gun shots. I did it by taking them to play in the area. We started far enough away that they could barely hear the shots. I am guessing 200-300 yards from the back side of the shooting area. In time I slowly went closer and trained and played with the pups for 30 minutes or so. If I ever noticed they were reacting to the noise, I would back off. Eventually we got to where we were right on the back of the parking lot and they were not reacting to the noise. The next time I came I took each dog on lead to walk around the parking lot. In each case they were curious, but not fearful at all....

If you go slow, it is a great way to do it. Do nothing that makes them react to the sound of fun fire, or all the remember is the sound and the fear.


----------



## JerseyChris

3goldens2keep said:


> I have always used a trap/ skeet operation to get my pups trained to gun shots. I did it by taking them to play in the area. We started far enough away that they could barely hear the shots. I am guessing 200-300 yards from the back side of the shooting area. In time I slowly went closer and trained and played with the pups for 30 minutes or so. If I ever noticed they were reacting to the noise, I would back off. Eventually we got to where we were right on the back of the parking lot and they were not reacting to the noise. The next time I came I took each dog on lead to walk around the parking lot. In each case they were curious, but not fearful at all....
> 
> If you go slow, it is a great way to do it. Do nothing that makes them react to the sound of fun fire, or all the remember is the sound and the fear.


thanks, kind of along my thoughts too, just was concerned the best way to let them get used to it and starting far away makes perfect sense.


----------



## K9-Design

Chris, simply take your dog to training days, where they will hear shots when the other dogs are training, then spend a lot of time getting them crazy for retrieving. Simply have the thrower shoot a primer before he throws and like Pavlov's dogs they learn that gun = retrieve and will get jazzed up about it. Taking them to a range with zero context and having no positive association won't do them any good.


----------



## 3goldens2keep

K9-Design said:


> Chris, simply take your dog to training days, where they will hear shots when the other dogs are training, then spend a lot of time getting them crazy for retrieving. Simply have the thrower shoot a primer before he throws and like Pavlov's dogs they learn that gun = retrieve and will get jazzed up about it. Taking them to a range with zero context and having no positive association won't do them any good.


???

Desensitizing to the sounds of gunshots prepares the dog to then have the "thrower shoot" on a retrieve. Additionally, I mentioned in my post above that I, " trained and played with the pups for 30 minutes" as I moved closer to the gunshots. This makes the link for the pup between retrieving and gunshots very well, thank you! Then you start actually sending the pup on singles with gunshots included. 

Different strokes for different folks...


----------



## diane0905

Guess who got his first pass at Junior Hunter today?!!! Beautiful Logan Smith did. My sweet smart boy. 

He was perfect on land for both marks. For the water, he dropped the bird the second time when he shook off, but he picked it back up and got into heel. I’m so proud of him. I gave him a deer jerky treat when we got in our car to go home.

We met lots of sweet people who were very helpful knowing it was my first go at it. The judges were awesome. I’m so glad I stayed for the ribbon ceremony. I was going to leave because I had been up since 5:00 a.m. and we didn’t get completely done until 5:00 p.m. I was sleepy and still had an hour and a half drive ahead of me. It was so cool seeing the ribbon delivery. I clapped and smiled away for each of them. There were two dogs who were completing Junior Hunter — well, there may have been more but some had left and some were off running other dogs in other tests.

Yippee! Thanks for all of your advice and encouragement.

Oh, and a nice lady took video for me on her phone when we did our water runs. She said she decided not to tell me until after my run because I had said if I record something on video we always mess up. Haha


----------



## Golden Gibby

👏🏻 Congratulations


----------



## DblTrblGolden2

Congratulations !!


----------



## PalouseDogs

Congratulations! Nice grounds.


----------



## sam34

Congrats!


----------



## hollyk

Hurray! 
Congratulations.


----------



## diane0905

PalouseDogs said:


> Congratulations! Nice grounds.


Thanks! It’s the first time I’ve been there. Pretty cool place! It’s over 7,000 acres.









H Cooper Black | South Carolina Parks Official Site


Great South Carolina horseback riding isn’t all you’ll find at H. Cooper Black. Camping, hunting and fishing are popular too. Explore the park now!




southcarolinaparks.com


----------



## 3goldens2keep

Congratulations...How fun is that! Keep it going, the dogs love it almost as much as the handlers do.


----------



## Sankari

Congratulations @diane0905 and Logan! You guys deserve it 😊


----------



## diane0905

Thank y’all!

Logan just earned Junior Hunter pass number two!! 😃

He had to go from the bank, through water, back onto and over a peninsula, and into the water again to retrieve one of the ducks. When he was coming back over the peninsula, I saw that look in his eye like he was thinking of running around on land, but I hollered “Here!” and he listened. Glory be! The judge asked if I train him myself and I told him we go to see Cara Mock for lessons. He said, “ He’s good.” 😃


----------



## diane0905

Here’s our first water series:






The judges were hilarious each day. On the second day, the judge said stuff like “Wow. Look at this pretty dog. I’m not sure who smells so nice — the lady or the dog.” Then on our second run he said, “Here’s that good looking and smelling pair again.”  I was not wearing perfume, so it must have been Logan. Lol 

And here’s the second part of the first water series — on it, a lot of the dogs went right up the peninsula and ran the length of it going right by the gunner. I was glad Logan didn’t pop up onto land on that end (he chose to swim the edge until he got to the part that impeded him) because he would have possibly been tempted to pop his head in to say, “Hello, Mr. Gunner. Do you have live ducks in a crate?”  We’ve been proofing for that, but we only had a couple of lessons to work on it since the WC we attempted where he committed that error. Also, Logan was carrying the duck by the wing back to me. One of the judges said, “Look at him winging it” or something like that. I told them I would laugh more at them if I wasn’t thinking so hard and nervous.” Lol






I wish someone had recorded our land runs and second day. Logan got better on the second day except the one time he had that look in his eyes as he was standing on the peninsula away from me holding his duck. It was only a second and he quickly responded to “Here!” So that’s good. Lol

A very nice lady there (Faith) took a couple photos of us with her professional camera (she’s a wildlife photographer) and is going to send them to me. She was not hired to do the event. She and her husband were so nice and more or less adopted me as I was there by myself with Logan. They offered a chair, food, and for me to follow them to find the bathroom. I took them up on the chair & the bathroom find. Lol On Sunday, I brought all my own stuff and could find the bathroom on my own. 

*Question:*

The next JH I could sign up for is December 3rd, so soon. Do y’all think I should sign up for that one or wait until spring? It could possibly be very chilly (no biggie for me) and I could possibly make Logan weary of me (ha!), but I’m just wondering if y’all would just push on ahead to the next one? I’m asking because the signup deadline is today.


----------



## ArkansasGold

Huge congrats Diane!!! That’s so awesome!


----------



## Golden Gibby

For your question about entering a test on Dec 3rd, I would say if you feel like you had good control when at the line and if he wasn’t over excited as in crazy, then I would enter. If there were any issues with line manners then I would postpone till spring and work on any issues I had. I can tell you from experience once the cuckoo gets out of the clock it’s hard to get back in which is important if you plan to go beyond junior.


----------



## diane0905

Golden Gibby said:


> For your question about entering a test on Dec 3rd, I would say if you feel like you had good control when at the line and if he wasn’t over excited as in crazy, then I would enter. If there were any issues with line manners then I would postpone till spring and work on any issues I had. I can tell you from experience once the cuckoo gets out of the clock it’s hard to get back in which is important if you plan to go beyond junior.


Thank you! He was good waiting in the blinds and walking up to the line. He didn’t pull any and waited until I sent him. He did get that glint in his eye (haha) on his last run on the second day when he came up on the peninsula (he was supposed to be there) with the duck. I could see it in his face, which is very expressive — him contemplating getting cuckoo & going around on land or something — but when I yelled “here” he immediately went into the water and headed my way. I was actually happy to see all the other dogs because I was worried Logan would be over excited and off the chain in the new environment, but he was in the top 1/3 of dogs as far as behavior is concerned. I told him I’d stop calling him cuckoo. Lol

This time I think I will get a hotel and stay in the area. We were waking up at 5:00 a.m. and driving an hour and 37 minutes there and back each day — plus all the time being crated between runs (I let him out periodically and walked him around.) It was a lot and I think by the end of that second run he was getting to the point of having had enough of me. He made it through it though without failing the test. We’ll have time to train one more time with Cara before we head to the next one. Since it’s Thanksgiving week, we aren’t going to train with her this week. I do some training on my own on retrieves and coming into heel.

On a funny note, when we were in the blinds Logan kept looking straight up at me looking like he was smiling from ear to ear. It was the same attention he gives me when I give him the heel command, but he was in front of me just looking up smiling away. One of the men standing nearby with a woman smiled real big and said, “Someone really loves his momma!” I think what Logan was really thinking is, “Momma, I’m sitting here being real good so can we go get the duck now?” Lolol

I meant to say I was just asking for a friend, by the way. I’m not announcing anything ahead of time ever again. I did that for the WC and it came back to bite me.


----------



## PalouseDogs

Go for the next test. After you get that JH in the books, you'll have no choice but to start teaching him to handle. With those test grounds, blinds will be a lot easier than where I train and test. Uneven ground and brush, combined with my poor eyesight, makes it very hard for me to see my dog beyond about 50 yards. I'm super jealous of those grounds in your video.


----------



## diane0905

PalouseDogs said:


> Go for the next test. After you get that JH in the books, you'll have no choice but to start teaching him to handle. With those test grounds, blinds will be a lot easier than where I train and test. Uneven ground and brush, combined with my poor eyesight, makes it very hard for me to see my dog beyond about 50 yards. I'm super jealous of those grounds in your video.


Thank you, Kelly! Those grounds are something else! Over 7,000 acres. I joined a training group that trains there, so now that we’ve seen it we will be sure to go. Cara (my trainer) also has over 100 acres. It is nice because without that, I would have nowhere to train.


----------



## diane0905

This sweet woman (Faith) who was at the hunt test had her camera with her. She’s a wildlife photographer. Her husband was handling their dog and she took these photos of Logan and me just to be kind. She just texted them to me and I love them. The judges were so friendly. I was probably smiling at a joke he was telling me.


----------



## Sankari

Congratulations again to Logan and you 😊 These photos are really good - lucky you to have a wildlife photographer!


----------



## MillionsofPeaches

congratulations and great photos!!


----------



## diane0905

MillionsofPeaches said:


> congratulations and great photos!!


Thank you!


----------



## hollyk

Wonderful photos!


----------



## diane0905

hollyk said:


> Wonderful photos!


Thank you so much!


----------



## diane0905

So, Logan got another rash, then peeling, then bad wetness/oozing areas on his testicles again after this last hunt test event. It’s weird because he’s been swimming/training in ponds all along without any issues. His first rash was after swimming in Cara’s pond (our regular training place) and then this current one is from our event — so different ponds. I’m wondering if it could possibly be some sort of season allergen type thing — something in the water this time of year. No idea. 

Anyway, he’s on Clavamox again. We signed up for next weekend and if he gets it fine — if not we will be on break until spring. His hunt test career will be short-lived if this continues. We were hoping to go ahead and start working on SH.


----------



## Sankari

So sorry to hear about this.. how's Logan now? Hope he's feeling better or at least on the mend...


----------



## diane0905

Sankari said:


> So sorry to hear about this.. how's Logan now? Hope he's feeling better or at least on the mend...


Clavamox is clearing it right up. Thank you!


----------



## PalouseDogs

Glad to hear the Clavamox is clearing up the rash. Could it be that the area isn't drying quickly? Hawthorn got his danglies scraped up running through the fields last summer when the wheat and garbs were mature or maturing and about the height of belly. His were red only on the bottom. I kept him out of the fields until harvest. I don't think he had an infection or at least not a serious one. Some online advice was to try bag balm, but that encouraged him to lick. The vet advised no ointment because of the licking issue unless I wanted to put him in a cone. His wasn't too severe and, without the ointment, he didn't bother them much, so confining him to the yard was the only thing I did.

If your boy has a more widespread irritation or infection beyond the undersides of his scrotum, I'd try rinsing the area with clean water after swimming, then putting him on the grooming table and blow-drying the area. It might just be a moisture problem that shows up when the temperature is lower and the area stays damp longer.


----------



## diane0905

PalouseDogs said:


> Glad to hear the Clavamox is clearing up the rash. Could it be that the area isn't drying quickly? Hawthorn got his danglies scraped up running through the fields last summer when the wheat and garbs were mature or maturing and about the height of belly. His were red only on the bottom. I kept him out of the fields until harvest. I don't think he had an infection or at least not a serious one. Some online advice was to try bag balm, but that encouraged him to lick. The vet advised no ointment because of the licking issue unless I wanted to put him in a cone. His wasn't too severe and, without the ointment, he didn't bother them much, so confining him to the yard was the only thing I did.
> 
> If your boy has a more widespread irritation or infection beyond the undersides of his scrotum, I'd try rinsing the area with clean water after swimming, then putting him on the grooming table and blow-drying the area. It might just be a moisture problem that shows up when the temperature is lower and the area stays damp longer.


Thank you. I would love to do that — and I normally do wash him off and dry him thoroughly after he’s been wet. It’s not a situation where I can. I was an hour and a half from home and after we finished our runs we had to wait for everyone else to finish and then the ribbon ceremony — then we drove home. I toweled him off and sprayed him with Duoxo spray. If it clears up and we go this weekend, I made a hotel reservation so I could skip the long drives there and back — although the last day we will have the drive home. There was a much milder rash on his underbelly, but that went away without antibiotics — I just used the spray on him and when it dried dusted him with Gold Bond. I also gave him Benadryl. It’s his testicles that are getting the nastier rash.

I’ve not heard of Bag Balm, but looked it up. I was thinking of trying slathering Aquaphor on his testicles before he gets in the water to see if that will repel whatever is getting him. Then, since we are in a hotel I could take him back there, shampoo him with Duoxo shampoo and dry him thoroughly. 

I have Logan wearing the cone at night. During the day, I’ve put him in a onesie some just so he can be cone free some of the time. Other times I cone him because I figure it’s good for them to air out. 

We are training tomorrow and I just told my trainer we will only do land runs. 

Oh, and someone told me they have an outlet in the back of their vehicle where they can blow dry their dog. I have a new vehicle, so maybe it has one.


----------



## diane0905

PalouseDogs said:


> Glad to hear the Clavamox is clearing up the rash. Could it be that the area isn't drying quickly? Hawthorn got his danglies scraped up running through the fields last summer when the wheat and garbs were mature or maturing and about the height of belly. His were red only on the bottom. I kept him out of the fields until harvest. I don't think he had an infection or at least not a serious one. Some online advice was to try bag balm, but that encouraged him to lick. The vet advised no ointment because of the licking issue unless I wanted to put him in a cone. His wasn't too severe and, without the ointment, he didn't bother them much, so confining him to the yard was the only thing I did.
> 
> If your boy has a more widespread irritation or infection beyond the undersides of his scrotum, I'd try rinsing the area with clean water after swimming, then putting him on the grooming table and blow-drying the area. It might just be a moisture problem that shows up when the temperature is lower and the area stays damp longer.


I just looked it up — my Bronco does have a power outlet. I didn’t even know cars had those and my husband is a car dealer.  I guess I’d have to drive away from the test area to do a blow dry, but I would.


----------



## SRW

diane0905 said:


> I just looked it up — my Bronco does have a power outlet.


I doubt that it will supply enough power to run your dryer.


----------



## diane0905

SRW said:


> I doubt that it will supply enough power to run your dryer.


Thank you. I will ask. I was wondering if it could short something out.


----------



## ArkansasGold

diane0905 said:


> Thank you. I will ask. I was wondering if it could short something out.


The dryer just won’t run for more than a few seconds. At least that’s how it was in my Edge.


----------



## diane0905

Logan earned his third pass. Woohoo! He’s such a sweet boy.


----------



## PalouseDogs

Woo Hoo, indeed! Congratulations.


----------



## diane0905

Logan is now a Junior Hunter!!


----------



## ArkansasGold

CONGRATULATIONS!!!


----------



## SRW

We’ll done.👍


----------



## sam34

Congrats!


----------



## diane0905

Thanks y’all! I’ll stop posting in this Junior Hunter thread now, unless Logan gets his WC and, in that case, I will revive it yet again.


----------



## SRW

diane0905 said:


> Thanks y’all! I’ll stop posting in this Junior Hunter thread now


I expect you to start a Senior or better yet Master Hunter thread.


----------



## Oceanside

Congratulations to you and Logan!


----------



## diane0905

SRW said:


> I expect you to start a Senior or better yet Master Hunter thread.


I’m going to continue training for sure. I enjoyed all the people and we had a lot of fun.


----------



## diane0905

Oh — and I meant to say — my trainer was there because she was a judge (or maybe a marshal — not sure) for the master part. I helped them with paperwork a little. They enlisted my services and said the pay was great. Lol


----------



## Sankari

Congratulations! It's a pity I saw this rather late! That's a well earned title! Logan deserves it and more importantly you as well! 🥳😊


----------



## diane0905

Sankari said:


> Congratulations! It's a pity I saw this rather late! That's a well earned title! Logan deserves it and more importantly you as well! 🥳😊


We just earned it today, so you’re not late! Thank you so much!! I gave Logan a deer chew when we were all done and back in the car. He seemed to enjoy that prize more than the ribbon. Lol


----------



## Golden Gibby

Nice job..👏🏻


----------



## diane0905

So, I just checked the posted results and they have Logan recorded as a scratch on both days. 🙃 I have ribbons, including a title ribbon that say otherwise. I’ve let my trainer know because she was working with the judges in some capacity.

I assume they are the ones who send the results to the AKC? I’ve been wondering about that.


----------



## K9-Design

You need to contact the test secretary to get the results on EE changed and make sure the catalogs they send to AKC are correct.


----------



## diane0905

K9-Design said:


> You need to contact the test secretary to get the results on EE changed and make sure the catalogs they send to AKC are correct.


It‘s remedied. Thank you!

Edit: To be clear — it was me, not them. 🙃


----------



## hollyk

Congratulations on your JH!


----------



## diane0905

hollyk said:


> Congratulations on your JH!


Thank you! It was a lot of fun and a good learning experience.


----------

