# WC Concerns



## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

I entered my girl too in the WC. She has been in the show ring so I have not been able to practice with her like I would like too. Hopefully, some will chime in on the diversion bird  Never ran or even seen a WC test...so you are better off than I!!

Have you tried turning yourself as she is coming back to the direction of the 2nd bird, so that way when she heels to you, she will be in atleast the direction of the fall.

I would still do it, she might surprise you


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## marsh mop (Mar 13, 2009)

> _At the discretion of the judges, the *diversion bird* may be a shot flier._


You will both be fine. Enjoy your day with your with your pups. It's a double, and you should treat is as such and you will be fine. Trust your dog.
Jim


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

Oh good question, I have been wondering about this as well. A shot flier diversion and a double?


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## marsh mop (Mar 13, 2009)

> Oh good question, I have been wondering about this as well. A shot flier diversion and a double?


No a shot flier is one of the marks. It's a double that you can hold your dog on. It is a double . I know you have done them. You will be fine. Have fun and enjoy your day!


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Diversion is a fancy word for the go-bird 
You'll be fine!


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Ask the judges what they are looking for and what they will allow you to do. Also, have you seen the DVD on this test put out by GRCA? You should get a look at it. It is very good.


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## MarieP (Aug 21, 2011)

'


K9-Design said:


> Diversion is a fancy word for the go-bird
> You'll be fine!


Really? So they are trying to say that the go-bird might be a flyer? but it might not be? A "double with a diversion" is just a double? Ah! Now I'm confused. I'm going to go watch some youtube WCs and see what they have. Because I would love to get my WC on little Ri-butt. but he can't do a double right now...


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

It does not say "a double with a diversion." It says the "diversion bird may be...." 
In this instance "diversion" means "Go bird."
You will NOT have a diversion bird in the traditional sense of the word, i.e. a bird thrown on the way back from retrieving another bird. This WILL NOT happen at a WC or WCX.
I have yet to see a flyer at a WC....clearly I should read the rules closely!


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

Anney, Jim THANK YOU!!! I read diversion bird and thought about the new bird presented when a dog is returning with a mark. She would LOVE a shot flier on the go bird. 

I plan to ask the trainer about doing some doubles tomorrow. Hopefully I will feel more confident. 



> Also, have you seen the DVD on this test put out by GRCA? You should get a look at it. It is very good.


I completely forgot about this. I am trying to find it on the website now. I want it. Probably a good idea I get it right? LOL 

Thanks all.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Maxs Mom said:


> Anney, Jim THANK YOU!!! I read diversion bird and thought about the new bird presented when a dog is returning with a mark. She would LOVE a shot flier on the go bird.
> 
> I plan to ask the trainer about doing some doubles tomorrow. Hopefully I will feel more confident.
> 
> ...


I would contact my local club as I believe that the GRCA was making one available to each club. I ordered my personal copy as soon as I saw it.


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

Found and ordered the video. Hopefully it will get here soon enough. If not it will still be educational.


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## boomers_dawn (Sep 20, 2009)

Maxs Mom said:


> It says they frown on you guiding the dog into position between the marks using the collar. You can pat your leg, coax them into position but I can tell you right now, Gabby will stay facing out where she just came from. I thought I could steady her between like I have done at her other hunt tests. Yes those were singles, and this is a double but... I should have known :doh:


 When she's coming back with the go bird, do you turn and face where the memory bird landed to receive the first bird? If you do that, she should heel into position to deliver the go bird, and already be facing the memory bird for you. 

The others are right, it's a double. I get all nerved up too :uhoh:
Have fun !!!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

we had a shot flier for our go-bird at our WC. But it's just a regular double, and the birds are pretty far apart. You will be just fine. Gabby is awesome.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Always interesting to hear how these tests differ from one area to another. Over the years I have never been to a WC that did not have a shot flier. 
Anyway good luck and hoping you come home with the Orange - although last WC we were at the ribbons were Navy and Gold. :wavey:


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

Thanks for asking Anne. I kept looking at the diversion language and thinking... what?
I'm told that we will see a pheasant for our live flier on land. 
Thank-you for the info everyone.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

You can practice the footwork a bit by throwing a handthrown double with white bumpers on short grass. Toss your memory mark, then turn 180 bringing her with you and toss the go-bird mark. Send her for the Go and when she has it turn and face the memory mark. Point your toes at it! Bring her in to heel, and cue her with "Where's your mark" or what ever you use BEFORE you take the first bumper. When she looks out say Good or Yes to confirm she is correct, take the bumper and send her. Because the targets are both obvious this will help you work on the mechanics of the simple double. You can gradually move the marks in until they are a little over 90 apart. Have Darrin do some simple doubles with gunners for her as well when you go up to train so that she can convert it to an actual field scenario.


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

Just practice pivots, you will be fine. Just remember no talking when you pivot, once you call for the birds you cannot say anything until you say the dogs name/release word. That means no "here, heel". I also know someone who does not pivot because their dog gets upset. I think (not 100%) they face him toward the go bird and he watches both go down from that spot.

I doubt Gabby will have any problems with the WC! She already has so much experience! Good luck!!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

my DVD is on the way to you. You should have it Tuesday at the latest.


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

I was about to say, I have a copy too, but it sounded like she already ordered one!

When is the test BTW?


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Sat. Sept. 10.
I wanted to go run Tito in the WCX, but my husband rudely made plans for us the night before, and it's over 4 hours away, and there's a time change....


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Oh good I am glad someone started this thread because I was planning on starting it myself!

I think I am going to put my boys in the next WC. I know one month of training done two years prior to the test is not really the way to prepare, but it's either enter and just see what happens or never try at all because I don't see my training opportunities opening up too much at this time.

So a few questions I've wondered....

I know I can't talk to my dog while watching the marks. I have worked too hard with my dog to convince him that he absolutely may not break a sit command unless I have commanded him to do otherwise. And in our world me pivoting is not a command in itself. I am not invested enough in field to risk changing that in his mind, so I plan on keeping him in one spot until sent. Question is, should I line him up at first to the memory bird, the go bird, or in between the two?

Next issue...I know I can't sit there and point out where to go as I would to set up a mark for go outs, but I also know that people drop their hands when sending their dogs as their cue to go. So question number two is, could I drop my hand alongside the right side of his face in the manner I would send to a glove?

And finally, my dogs have worked ducks plenty and I still have a few in the freezer, but I'm not sure if I'd have a chance to get my hands on a pheasant beforehand. I've been told I should be able to get one at the test and let my dogs try it out before we run. Is this true?


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

How far are you from St. Louis????? There's a WC/WCX there October 16.
I would probably face him in between the 2 marks, and let him swing his head to look at them. They will make a noise (duck call) which will get his attention, he'll turn to look at each.
Yes, it's a good idea to have them see/smell a pheasant before hand, IF the club is going to use pheasants. Some use chukkars.


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

I believe you can show the dog the gun stations in the WC/WCX. We did the WC twice and they recommended it in the briefing both times, so I did. (note, you cannot do this in hunt tests)

At the National WC they did have a pheasant for the dogs to hold/smell that was over in the parking area.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Seems to me you can show them the gun stations in the field BEFORE you signal that you are ready, but not after.



sammydog said:


> I believe you can show the dog the gun stations in the WC/WCX. We did the WC twice and they recommended it in the briefing both times, so I did. (note, you cannot do this in hunt tests)
> 
> At the National WC they did have a pheasant for the dogs to hold/smell that was over in the parking area.


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

hotel4dogs said:


> Seems to me you can show them the gun stations in the field BEFORE you signal that you are ready, but not after.


Oh yes, sorry, that is what I meant!!!


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

hotel4dogs said:


> They will make a noise (duck call) which will get his attention, he'll turn to look at each.



There is never a duck call, or any call, in the WC or WCX by GRCA regulations. It is a shot and then throw, it is the shot that you will hope gets your dog's attention.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Loisiana said:


> .
> 
> I know I can't talk to my dog while watching the marks. I have worked too hard with my dog to convince him that he absolutely may not break a sit command unless I have commanded him to do otherwise. And in our world me pivoting is not a command in itself. I am not invested enough in field to risk changing that in his mind, so I plan on keeping him in one spot until sent. Question is, should I line him up at first to the memory bird, the go bird, or in between the two?



Once you signal the judge you are ready you may not say anything to the dog until the judge releases you to send the dog. Once the dog goes for the bird you can not say anything till the dog picks up the bird. It is considered "handling" and as the WC/WCX is a "marking" test handling is an automatic failure.
I like to line my bird up for the first bird down, the memory bird, as I want her to get that picture as imprinted as possible. I trust the shot from the second station will be enough to turn the dog's attention if she does not pivot with me. 
On the WC you can run the dog "on lead". The best way to do this, IMO, is to use a cord and run it through the eye on the collar you would normally hook the leash. Then when I send the dog I let one end go and let it pull thru as the dog runs out for the bird. 



Loisiana said:


> Next issue...I know I can't sit there and point out where to go as I would to set up a mark for go outs, but I also know that people drop their hands when sending their dogs as their cue to go. So question number two is, could I drop my hand alongside the right side of his face in the manner I would send to a glove?


I would verify with the judges on the day of the test, as everyone seems to interpret the rules a little different. That said, yes you can, but do NOT touch the dog. 
Also it is a good idea to turn and face the second bird as the dog is returning with the first bird. This way you do not have ot do a lot of moving trying to setup for that mark. Notice I did not refer tot he second bird as the memory mark, if your dog decides to go get the first bird down first it is okay as long as it gets the other bird after it returns.



Loisiana said:


> And finally, my dogs have worked ducks plenty and I still have a few in the freezer, but I'm not sure if I'd have a chance to get my hands on a pheasant beforehand. I've been told I should be able to get one at the test and let my dogs try it out before we run. Is this true?



Depends on the club/judges but it is normally allowed but not always. 



Loisiana said:


> I think I am going to put my boys in the next WC.


GOOD LUCK!! :wavey:
Aand be prepared to see your dog react like it never has before, unless it has already been exposed to fresh birds.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

yes, of course you are right. It's the shot. Or a couple shots with the live flyer. Or many shots when they miss and then sluice it on the water....
the duck calls are only in HT.




AmbikaGR said:


> There is never a duck call, or any call, in the WC or WCX by GRCA regulations. It is a shot and then throw, it is the shot that you will hope gets your dog's attention.


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