# Help With Sits



## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

Just looking for some training suggestions for this. I'm working on whistle sits with Ella, along with other things. She knows the whistle command for sit, but we are having some problems.

When Ella is right in front of me she will practically throw her butt onto the ground. When she is next to me in a heel she will sit on the whistle, but not with nearly as much enthusiasm. She takes her time doing it. Nine times out of ten she will sit when in heel.

Where I'm running into issues is when she isn't right near me. For example, if she's ten feet away she won't sit. If I walk to her to give her the correction with the choke collar (we haven't done e-collar conditioning yet) she ends up sitting as I get near her. At that point I don't know whether to give her a correction because she did sit, just not when I wanted her to. I don't want her to think that she is getting punished for sitting.

I'm not sure how much of an effect it has on this, but Ella does have a tendency to sit whenever she is in front of me. I get the impression she thinks she will get something when she goes into a sit. She also has always gone into a sit when she wants something.

A little help on this would be great.

Thanks!

Katie & Ella


----------



## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Sounds like she may not realize sit is an ACTION and not a PLACE, a fairly common misunderstanding but indicates she does not know what SIT means.

With my dogs, sit is trained at incremental distances .. I build SIT (or down, or stand etc) at slowly increasing distances - by slowly I mean perhaps 4-6 inches at a time. 80% success rate before increasing distance.

When you move in to correct, you might very well be coming into where she perceives SIT should be.


----------



## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

All along I thought teaching sit at the same time as whistle sit would be a little much but I'm a novice and I didn't want to sound negative. Sometimes trying to teach the dog several concepts at once can confuse the dog, trust me, I KNOW lol. 

I think what Sharon said was exactly the issue and when you train her this way I would NOT use the whistle until you know her concept of sit as an action is down pat. Then once you know she knows exactly what sit means, incorporate the whistle.


----------



## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

Thanks for the quick reply. Let me make sure I'm understanding correctly. Begin with her right in front, just give the verbal sit. Take about a half a step back, give the verbal command, and keep continuing with the verbal command increasing the distance? What should I do if she does not follow the verbal command or if she comes toward me when I tell her to sit (she has done that before)?

Please forgive all the questions. This is the first time I'm training a dog and there is definitely lots to learn!


----------



## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Leave her on a leash or log line so you can correct her. Also start having her sit whenever you enter a doorway. So walk up to a door way and tell her sit, then you walk through. Once your are through call her to you. If she gets up, just put her back in the spot she left, and tell her sit again. also have her sit before she eats. So when you take her to where she is normally fed, have her sit. If she gets up while you dish the food up, have her sit again. Don't get mad, but don't give in. Just keep physically putting her back in the same spot and having her sit. Then release her once you are ready for her to eat. Be consistent.


----------



## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

OK a few suggestions. To answer your question:



> Where I'm running into issues is when she isn't right near me. For example, if she's ten feet away she won't sit. If I walk to her to give her the correction with the choke collar (we haven't done e-collar conditioning yet) she ends up sitting as I get near her. At that point I don't know whether to give her a correction because she did sit, just not when I wanted her to. I don't want her to think that she is getting punished for sitting.


YES still give her a correction (collar jangle, whatever it is). She cannot avoid a correction by just doing it slow. And you need to be really fast. Most people issue a command and stand there and watch and wait for their dog to comply. It needs to be a lot faster if you want the dog to pay attention and actually act on your command. Immediately walk in and correct her and make it right if she is not sitting by the time the word is out of your mouth. 

Two things you can do to get her sitting at a distance from you are (1) put her behind a babygate at the end of the hall and step away. Tell her to sit. She cannot come toward you. You can even have her on a long line and pull on the line if she doesn't immediately sit. If she does sit, immediately say "YES!" and throw a ball or food over the gate for her. The other thing you can do when you are out playing, fake her out and act like you are throwing a bumper, but hold onto it. When she runs out to "Beat" it, wait until she does the "huh, where is it?" and looks back at you, then tell her "SIT!" Typically they will. When she sits say "YES!" and throw the bumper. You can't do this every time with her because they get wise to it, but it's a fun game and they catch on quick.

You will probably have to do these things just a few times for her to understand that she has to sit regardless of where you are in relationship to her. Dogs thrive on information so you must tell her when she is right and not right.


----------



## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

I'll work with these suggestions and keep you posted. Thanks again everyone.


----------



## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

Thought I would give an update. Ella has improved. Not perfect, but definitely improved. I haven't progressed to the whistle yet and may not until she has the sit down pat with the verbal command.

What I've been doing is making her sit for almost anything. Breakfast and dinner? Has to sit for it. Treats? Sit. Want to go outside on the deck? Sit. Go for a walk? Sit. This one we're still working on because she breaks the sit before I can put the collar on and breaks it again while I'm putting my gloves on. I've been persistent and not continuing on until she goes back in the sit. I then make her wait in her sit while I open the door and walk out. I feel like she understands what she's supposed to do but is having issues controlling her excitement. I'm also running into a minor issue with this one that when my dad takes her out before I get home from work in the morning he doesn't go through this, just hooks her up and goes.

We have gained distance. Just worked my way a little further back. Normally I've done this when she wants to go on the back deck or when we're playing a little game of indoor fetch. For the deck as soon as I see her at the door I tell her to sit. She plots her butt right down. With the setup of our house, she has been sitting as long as I'm within sight of her. Haven't tried without sight/eye contact. Still working on her not getting up until I say so. With the fetch, again when she is within sight she will plop her butt right down but releases before I tell her. As you can tell this is a bit of a pattern with her getting up when she wants to. To try to keep her butt down I keep putting her back in the sit and then make her wait before I give her what she wants.

I'm still working on getting, I guess you could call it a snappy sit. If it's something she really wants, like to go outside, go for walk, a toy, then she plops her butt right down. If it's something she's not as big on or doesn't want as much then she'll take her time more. For example, with her food (she's not super food motivated) she will more of take her time sitting down.

One thing I haven't been doing at this point is using corrections, just repeating until she does it correctly. I feel like I've got to start using them though to get better results. She gets in a rut of repeating the same thing over and over, which I'm guessing is due to the way I'm doing something. I guess the reason I haven't been using the corrections is because we've been training mostly inside with all the snow on the ground, and they aren't planned training sessions. I'm just seeing an opportunity to give her the command and using that. I don't have her walk around the house with the choke collar on. The setup of my house also isn't ideal for trying to train with anything longer than a 6' leash on her. The ecollar would come in useful for this but we haven't done the collar conditioning yet. Is there another way I could do some sort of correction from a distance? Or should I just keep with this until she's been conditioned on the collar?

Other than what I've already mentioned, in the next week or so, by the end of the month at the latest, I'm going to add the whistle. I'll do the whistle followed by verbal command for a while, then after a bit start dropping the verbal and giving the whistle.


----------



## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

ktkins7 said:


> One thing I haven't been doing at this point is using corrections, just repeating until she does it correctly :uhoh: . I feel like I've got to start using them though to get better results. She gets in a rut of repeating the same thing over and over, which I'm guessing is due to the way I'm doing something.


It sounds like she's a good learner ... "Sit-Sit-Sit-Sit-Sit" means to sit. 
When teaching, one command is all they get. It's a command, not a request. "Sit" means sit.
If you're sure that she knows the command, then a correction is fair; if you're not sure that she knows the command, continue teaching it until you know she knows. (I suspect, however, that she's fully aware of what "Sit" means by now.)
No e-collar is needed in the house, you can reach out and touch her ... a gentle tap on the rear will most likely be enough, or an upward jerk on the collar (maybe a 4" - 6" collar tab will make it easier). 
* "Sit" - tap - obedience - reward is the sequence for this command and future teaching will follow a similar sequence. 
* After taught, "Sit" - immediate obedience - reward is the sequence.

Just my thoughts ....

FTGoldens


----------



## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

I'm open to corrections. This is my time training so I'm new at all this.

I should have worded it differently when it comes to repeating. I say sit once. She'll sit. But then she gets up. At that point I say sit to put her back in the sit. Not the common saying sit five times to get her to sit.

One question I just thought of. The trainer has me giving the command. If she doesn't comply, then repeat once immediately followed by correction. Does this sound right out am I remembering incorrectly?


----------



## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

ktkins7 said:


> I'm open to corrections. This is my time training so I'm new at all this.
> 
> I should have worded it differently when it comes to repeating. I say sit once. She'll sit. But then she gets up. At that point I say sit to put her back in the sit. Not the common saying sit five times to get her to sit.
> 
> One question I just thought of. The trainer has me giving the command. If she doesn't comply, then repeat once immediately followed by correction. Does this sound right out am I remembering incorrectly?


Maybe your trainer has seen something that would suggest repeating the command is best for your dog, however I would not generally give such advice. If pup heard the command, she should obey the first time it is uttered, pretty much instantly. In most circumstances (especially in a quiet or controlled environment), there's no need to repeat the command ... that will teach a dog that they can ignore the first command and only the second command matters.


----------



## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

The only time I ever repeat a command is if I'm absolutely certain he didn't hear/see me give the command the first time. Which is pretty rare. Otherwise they learn to ignore commands.


----------



## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

For now then I'll give the command once and then correction without repeating. 

Now, when I give the command from the distance and I need to walk to her to give her the correction, would she still know what she is being corrected for?


----------

