# I use a prong collar and I'm sick to death of being accused of "choking my dog"



## Anne Y. (Jan 6, 2017)

*I use a prong collar and I'm sick to death of being accused of "choking my dog"*

Just what the title says. I am sick to death of people looking at our golden wearing his Herm Sprenger prong collar and then telling me I'm essentially abusing/hurting/choking our dog because of it. I've had half a dozen people in the last 4 months, some of them strangers on the street but a few of them being people we know, do everything from instantly judging me to making comments to literally even yelling at me during walks about how I "...shouldn't choke my dog" and "deserve to be choked like I choke him by putting a torture collar on myself" and so on and so forth. It is ridiculous. What about a prong collar makes people automatically assume it's choking or hurting a dog? I have tried ALL the harnesses worth anything on the market. They didn't work for Bodhi, he would just charge/pull/lunge anyway and he is strong as an ox now. We live in a very busy downtown neighborhood, and I absolutely must have control over him-not only because we want a well trained dog, but for his safety and ours. It's not fun to have a dog try to pull into a street with cars whizzing past you.

So we bought this collar with a specific leather leash because that's what our dog trainer advised us to use because of Bodhi's pulling and lunging issues, and it has worked like an absolute DREAM from minute 1. Bodhi doesn't dislike it, and he's never seemed to mind the corrections-he just now knows that he cannot pull or lunge, or yes, there will be discomfort. I rarely have to give corrections, and when I do, it's a light pop with the leash.

Now, I could understand people's judgement if I was like, yanking his leash, making the prong collar dig into his neck, but that is not what's happening. I just wish people would at least look into prong collars before passing judgement on those who choose to use them. Sure, they look intimidating, I get it. But the Herm Sprenger is good quality, not sharp edged like some of the cheap versions, our trainer fit Bodhi's collar and added an extra link at my request, and it has a martingale. AND our vet approves this choice. So what about these collars sends people into such a tizzy? I am totally open to hearing from people here who might not agree with such collars, just please be nice about it.


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## hahuston (Jul 5, 2017)

Anne Y. said:


> Just what the title says. I am sick to death of people looking at our golden wearing his Herm Sprenger prong collar and then telling me I'm essentially abusing/hurting/choking our dog because of it. I've had half a dozen people in the last 4 months, some of them strangers on the street but a few of them being people we know, do everything from instantly judging me to making comments to literally even yelling at me during walks about how I "...shouldn't choke my dog" and "deserve to be choked like I choke him by putting a torture collar on myself" and so on and so forth. It is ridiculous. What about a prong collar makes people automatically assume it's choking a dog? I have tried ALL the harnesses worth anything on the market. They didn't work for Bodhi, he would just charge/pull/lunge anyway and he is strong as an ox now. We live in a very busy downtown neighborhood, and I absolutely must have control over him-not only because we want a well trained dog, but for his safety and ours. It's not fun to have a dog try to pull into a street with cars whizzing past you.
> 
> So we bought this collar with a specific leather leash because that's what our dog trainer advised us to use because of Bodhi's pulling and lunging issues, and it has worked like an absolute DREAM from minute 1. Bodhi doesn't dislike it, and he's never seemed to mind the corrections-he just now knows that he cannot pull or lunge, or yes, there will be discomfort. I rarely have to give corrections, and when I do, it's a light pop with the leash.
> 
> Now, I could understand people's judgement if I was like, yanking his leash, making the prong collar dig into his neck, but that is not what's happening. I just wish people would at least look into prong collars before passing judgement on those who choose to use them. Sure, they look intimidating, I get it. But the Herm Sprenger is good quality, not sharp edged like some of the cheap versions, our trainer fit Bodhi's collar and added an extra link at my request, and it has a martingale. AND our vet approves this choice. So what about these collars sends people into such a tizzy? I am totally open to hearing from people here who might not agree with such collars, just please be nice about it.


I think people don't understand how they are to be used. They're a pinch collar. Used properly, they pinch, not bruise or puncture. I used one with my Lab/Akita mix and with a Pointer/Border Collie mix. Neither of them feared the collar. They were always excited to see it brought out. I had all the same experiences you describe. Keep doing what you're doing and don't apologize.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## GoldenCamper (Dec 21, 2009)

...........................


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## Simba_Golden (Aug 31, 2017)

I cannot imagine putting one of these in my dogs neck.. Just sayin...


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## ceegee (Mar 26, 2015)

They're actually illegal in the province where I live. Too much potential for incorrect use, I suppose.


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## Our3dogs (Apr 3, 2008)

I also used them on our previous Golden's. Same as you - properly fitted, trained with trainer, etc. It took care of our pulling issue. They knew as soon as those collars came out we were going for a walk. They were never scared of them, because I never misused them. Just ignore the people. You are not going to change the minds of the total strangers in the 2 minutes you are interacting with them. If you want to take the time to explain to your friends who are making the comments, then do so. Otherwise, ignore them as well if they are not open to your thoughts on it. I, of course, would most likely not be very nice after a bit and say to them "pardon me, but I don't remember asking your opinion". The interesting thing is usually these people have no problem seeing a "choke chain" - which can do more damage at a much quicker rate then a prong collar. As you are finding out - everyone has an opinion on just about everything.


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## Anne Y. (Jan 6, 2017)

hahuston said:


> I think people don't understand how they are to be used. They're a pinch collar. Used properly, they pinch, not bruise or puncture. I used one with my Lab/Akita mix and with a Pointer/Border Collie mix. Neither of them feared the collar. They were always excited to see it brought out. I had all the same experiences you describe. Keep doing what you're doing and don't apologize.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


Agreed. I think some people assume that to use a prong collar I must be a total jerk of a person who is willing to hurt my dog to keep him in line. This could not be farther from the truth. Our trainer fit Bodhi's collar and taught us the appropriate way to correct him using it if we needed to do so. It doesn't hurt him. What will hurt my dog is stepping on broken glass I can't pull him away from or running into the street and being hit by a car, or lunging at the wrong dog and being bitten.


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## Anne Y. (Jan 6, 2017)

ceegee said:


> They're actually illegal in the province where I live. Too much potential for incorrect use, I suppose.


I can TOTALLY understand that. But any collar or harness has the potential to hurt a dog. If I used a regular collar on Bodhi and didn't do everything in my power to stop the pulling and lunging, I can't imagine he would not do damage to his throat at some point or another. The harnesses I tried rubbed him raw and still, he almost pulled me into traffic wearing his last one to chase a seagull across the street.

I suppose I'm just very happy they are legal here.


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## 1oldparson (Mar 5, 2013)

We use a prong collar on Ginger and she has the same positive reaction others noted - excited and “let’s go!”

Someone once said “Opinions are like navels, everyone has one and most stink.”


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

Prong collars are training tools just like any other collar. I have used one on my older golden for training. Once she figured what was expected I didn’t use it anymore. Whenever she seems to forget, I put it back on. Choke chains aren’t dangerous either when used properly. I personally don’t care for the harnesses. Ive seen them on many dogs as there’s a service dog organization that uses them. The dogs don’t seem to learn how to walk nicely on them.


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## thicks (Dec 5, 2017)

I have worked with a lot of dogs in my life and never been a fan of them. Have you tried to train using possessive methods? Like Treats. Look up Zak George on you tube and he will teach you a lot of how to get your dog to listen.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

I used to be against them, until I had a class on how to use them. In reality, they are more comfortable to a dog than the gentle leader, I would never use one of those on a dog. 

They are safer than a choke collar, a choke can injure the dog more easily than the prong, because all the pounds of pressure are in one place on the neck. A prong collar, the pressure is evenly distributed around the neck. Actually, even safer than a flat collar if you have a dog that is a strong puller.

Some of the halters can also cause nerve damage in the armpits. 

When I first was showed how to use a prong collar, the trainer had me put it around my bare arm and tighten it. It does not hurt, it is just pressure. The prongs do not break skin or injure the skin. The problem comes when people leave them on their dogs 24/7 and the dogs grow to big for them, that is when the injuries happen. Same thing can happen with any kind of collar.

You, as an owner, need to do what you think is safest for your dog and your circumstances. One thing they trained us to do, it to always wear the prong collar with a flat collar, then attach the leash to both collars - this prevents the loss of your dog if for some reason the prongs break apart.


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## Mayabear (Aug 26, 2015)

Its one of two things: people have an opinion and MUST air it, or the automatic assumption is you misuse it and are therefore inflicting pain on your dog every opportunity you get.

Look, a prong collar is not my style, but if it is working for you then that's it. People are always going to find something you're doing "wrong".


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Anne Y. said:


> Just what the title says. I am sick to death of people looking at our golden wearing his Herm Sprenger prong collar and then telling me I'm essentially abusing/hurting/choking our dog because of it. I've had half a dozen people in the last 4 months, some of them strangers on the street but a few of them being people we know, do everything from instantly judging me to making comments to literally even yelling at me during walks about how I "...shouldn't choke my dog" and "deserve to be choked like I choke him by putting a torture collar on myself" and so on and so forth. It is ridiculous. What about a prong collar makes people automatically assume it's choking or hurting a dog? I have tried ALL the harnesses worth anything on the market. They didn't work for Bodhi, he would just charge/pull/lunge anyway and he is strong as an ox now. We live in a very busy downtown neighborhood, and I absolutely must have control over him-not only because we want a well trained dog, but for his safety and ours. It's not fun to have a dog try to pull into a street with cars whizzing past you.
> 
> So we bought this collar with a specific leather leash because that's what our dog trainer advised us to use because of Bodhi's pulling and lunging issues, and it has worked like an absolute DREAM from minute 1. Bodhi doesn't dislike it, and he's never seemed to mind the corrections-he just now knows that he cannot pull or lunge, or yes, there will be discomfort. I rarely have to give corrections, and when I do, it's a light pop with the leash.
> 
> Now, I could understand people's judgement if I was like, yanking his leash, making the prong collar dig into his neck, but that is not what's happening. I just wish people would at least look into prong collars before passing judgement on those who choose to use them. Sure, they look intimidating, I get it. But the Herm Sprenger is good quality, not sharp edged like some of the cheap versions, our trainer fit Bodhi's collar and added an extra link at my request, and it has a martingale. AND our vet approves this choice. So what about these collars sends people into such a tizzy? I am totally open to hearing from people here who might not agree with such collars, just please be nice about it.



It just goes to show you self centered Morons can be found everywhere. You just have to shake your head and tell them to mind their own business.


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## Anne Y. (Jan 6, 2017)

thicks said:


> I have worked with a lot of dogs in my life and never been a fan of them. Have you tried to train using possessive methods? Like Treats. Look up Zak George on you tube and he will teach you a lot of how to get your dog to listen.


Thicks, I appreciate your response. Of course we have used every "positive" training method under the sun, watched every video out there until our eyes and ears bled. In our case, there are no amount of treats or praise or whathaveyou/"positive" training methods that would get our boy at this point to stop pulling and lunging. Had I dangled a prime rib in front of his face and threw a good boy! party, he would still lunge and pull and COMPLETELY ignore the positive rewards. The prong collar was a last resort of sorts, although I will not hesitate to put it on any of my dogs if needed going forward after knowing what I know now about them, and we have weekly sessions with a top notch one on one dog trainer.


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## Anne Y. (Jan 6, 2017)

cubbysan said:


> I used to be against them, until I had a class on how to use them. In reality, they are more comfortable to a dog than the gentle leader, I would never use one of those on a dog.
> 
> They are safer than a choke collar, a choke can injure the dog more easily than the prong, because all the pounds of pressure are in one place on the neck. A prong collar, the pressure is evenly distributed around the neck. Actually, even safer than a flat collar if you have a dog that is a strong puller.
> 
> ...


THIS!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you, Cubbysan. Everything you've said here is also what our trainer told us (even having my husband putting the collar on his arm!) and I wish more people understood this. 

I did not know about also putting on the flat collar, however. That is a great tip and I will be adding one and attaching our leash to both, thank you


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I'm going to take a middle opinion. 

I think people overuse training collars in casual day to day activities. The dogs get used to the training collars but never actually get trained. Put a different collar on the dog and he will pull. 

Worse case scenarios too... people abuse the collars and put them on neck strong dogs who do pull on them. And or suffer damage to their fur and scarring around their necks. 

How the collars should be used is in training sessions different times of the day. 

When you are actively training - you can put 100% of your focus on working with your dog.

When you both are on your own time, I think it's not doing either of you any good by constant use of training collars when you are not doing anything to positively reinforce and encourage X in training. 

I've seen people walking dogs on choke chains - and it is an utter nightmare. Especially the people who are pulling as hard their dogs are pulling and repeatedly whining "heel" to their dogs. This is not training. This is turning a happy relaxing period of time (which walks can be) into a stressfest for both of you.  

Beyond that, the more "used to" the dogs get to having a pinch around the necks, the heavier handed you might have to be when training with a prong.

Prongs when used properly on your dog is the equivalent of having your dog wrapped around your little finger. It takes very little movement of the leash to get a response from your dog. 

But I have seen dogs out there who are always on a prong who still manage to haul their owners across the room. You're losing a good tool through overuse in nontraining situations. 

Likewise, choke chains are also quite positive with most obedience dogs. The chains are supposed to be fitted for the dogs, but generally speaking hang loose around the neck. A correction is described as chain rattling with the dogs and it is something that if you put the work into a very positive thing. Chain rattle = food reward. 

Choke chains or prongs really have no business being on a dog who is at the end of the leash 6 feet ahead of their owners and pulling every so often. 

Respectfully intended.


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## Anne Y. (Jan 6, 2017)

Megora said:


> I'm going to take a middle opinion.
> 
> I think people overuse training collars in casual day to day activities. The dogs get used to the training collars but never actually get trained. Put a different collar on the dog and he will pull.
> 
> ...


I think you've made great points here, thank you.


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## myluckypenny (Nov 29, 2016)

Look up the prong collar leash at Leerburg. It has two clips on the leash, one for the prong and one for the flat collar. Its to prevent a dog from getting loose if the prongs come apart! It's really good quality too.


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## Pytheis (Mar 17, 2016)

I haven't ever used a prong collar on one of my dogs, but I did walk two 80lb malamutes that were "service dogs", and even with a prong on, they were extremely hard to control. Of course, the owner left the prong on 24/7, and the only time they were out of their kennels was when I walked them - 30 minutes on Mondays and Wednesdays. They went out twice to go to the bathroom on the rest of the days. That's it.

I do think that prong collars can be used properly and improperly, just like any tool. I've often wondered what happens when you take the prong off. Does the dog instantly start pulling and behaving poorly again? According to various people I know, their dogs stopped pulling on the prong, and eventually they never needed it again. The dog stopped pulling altogether.

I have heard dozens and dozens of horror stories about gentle leaders and "no-pull" harnesses though. They appear to never be safe, even if used properly. What do you guys think about that?

https://www.nitrocanine.com/blog/2015/02/10/the-head-halter-torture-pain-and-nonsense-explained/


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

My best friend uses a prong collar on her yellow lab. Last Fall, I frequently walked him for her and there were many times I'd get back to the house and say, "oops, Zeke, we forgot your prong collar!" He really doesn't need it at this point - reinforcing what some have said here. (Which made me happy, because I don't feel confident that I'm using it correctly.)

Also, I've used every tool I could find for Max because that dog pulls like he's the lead sled dog and I'm the sled - and every single one works great, for a while. As soon as he gets used to it, I'm back to being the sled. He's 10, he still pulls like a tank when he wants to. I've never used the prong because of the aforementioned lack of confidence - I bought a 25 foot lead and let him wander - I can still reel him in if necessary and he can go wander and sniff at will. (Will is getting a bit cranky about that, honestly) 

I totally blame myself for not putting in the work to teach him to walk better on leash when he was young (not a criticism of anyone struggling). I just offer this as a cautionary tale - any tool is only good as the one using it.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

I cannot walk my daughter's GSD puppy without her prong on. I have shoulder issues and she has pulling issues....

I suppose you could misuse one, but you can misuse every tool there is. What I can't imagine is someone telling a stranger they are abusing the dog the stranger does not know.. with not knowledge of how the tool is correctly used, just carrying around an idea they actually know no actuality about. I wouldn't use a head halter for any reason, ever- but I know why I feel that way and it is based on real stuff. 
I'd say, ' I am so glad to hear you have an opinion to share with me. ' and then just keep walking.


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## davmar77 (May 5, 2017)

We use the same collar. It was given to us by a very experienced behaviorist who came to the house. He did add the comfort tips by the way.


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## Gleepers (Apr 20, 2016)

I’ve thought about trying one and may still try it at some point. 

When the trainer first talked about it as an option I went to the pet store and put one on my wrist and yanked it HARD! Not really a torture devise apparently. I do hear it takes some skill to use correctly.


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## GoldensOldie (Apr 23, 2017)

My Dax thinks he is a sled dog, apparently. He's 6 months old and has the muscles and drive to pull me around.... I am not a small, or weak, person, I can hold my own with him, but it is taking its toll and does no good for his training. 

At the suggestion of our trainer, I purchased a prong collar for him. When I pick it up, he comes running for me to put it on him, he doesn't feel it is a threat. When we are walking, he will pull on it at times, but not enough to pull me off balance. It's just when something is too good to ignore... we do live in the woods.

Tonight, he was wild because I was gone for 4 hours... he couldn't calm down. Then, my daughter came over and Dax kept jumping on her. I put the collar on him.... no leash, just collar.... and he calmed down. It was like magic. It isn't tight, it doesn't do anything but sit on his neck... but it seems to calm him down. 

I know this is not the "proper" use for the prong collar, but it sure helps us.


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## Buddy's mom forever (Jun 23, 2011)

My Charlie was a "puller" turning our walks into nightmares. Easy walk harness worked for couple months and then we were back to the same. First time I got an advice to switch to a prong collar it was actually wake up call for me. I ditched harness and got back to flat collar and back to square one. It took us 3 months of "hard" work, pockets full of treats lol, late walks with less distractions and we are now both happy with our walks. 

Whatever you do if you can justify it to yourself then other people's opinions shouldn't bother you.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Get a cute prong collar cover and avoid the drama.:wink2:


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Just an FYI.

If you are in public and your dog is wearing a prong collar, you can COVER THE PRONG. They make covers for the collars. Ask your trainer where to get one.

Problem solved...you get to have a prong collar on your dog when you are paying full attention to your dog and John Q Public does not have to see the collar.


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## rabernet (Feb 24, 2015)

We got a traditional prong collar and then switched to this one: 

Lola Limited ? Secret Powers

What I love about these, is that this can transition to a flat collar as well. But no one knows your dog has on a prong collar. 

Noah also pulls me like a sled, and I need to really get back to basics with him. Took him lure coursing, was talking to a friend and all of the sudden he face planted me when it was another dog's turn at the lure. I'm sure I looked a little like Road Runner with my feet going as fast as they could to keep up with him before I went SPLAT! LOL

And no - I didn't have him on the prong at that time. <sigh>


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## Wenderwoman (Jan 7, 2013)

I can say that I would only use this collar as a last resort. My dog does pull once in a great while but I just continue with the training protocol of telling her no and keep moving forward. She is 4 now and I had hoped she would be completely trained by now but she's not. Still, I won't use the prong because she gradually gets better and better. And, also, because she only does this when she sees other dogs or she is startled by someone but then usually calms down rather quickly. A big part of her problem was that she had some health issues when she was a puppy and needed a little more socialization.

That said, the biggest reason I am opposed is because, with my dog, I know other ways to train her; she is highly food motivated, I can turn around, I can control her and get her to calm down, and she is improving with every passing day. Maybe not as fast as I hoped, but she is improving. I also know that my dog isn't going to hurt anything because she's not lunging aggressively, she's lunging because she wants to be friendly.

I don't know. If I had a rottweiler that I thought would attack someone or she was a real maniac, I definitely think the prong collar should be used. I'm just not sure if I agree they should be used on dogs that are just difficult to train. I feel that as the pet owner, I should be the one to adjust and find ways to work with my dog rather than make my dog stress about some anticipated physical reaction. I feel that, maybe in some way, it might cause anxiety and I want my dog to enjoy things. It's pretty much the same reason I would never get an electric fence.

Frankly, I'd rather keep working at it and avoid situations that might cause a reaction (i.e. turn around when I see other dogs or people) than use the collar. My process is working even if it is slower than I hoped. So, I don't believe it's necessary. Also, if my dog was acting crazy, I would never walk them in a high energy state because there is no way they would listen. I would play ball or tug or do something to get them in a low energy, almost tired state before even trying to train them on a leash. I would also walk them before feeding them so that they were food motivated. I do remember that when I was first training my dogs, it took a lot of patience and strategizing.

That's how I feel about it. I'm not judging and if another pet owner believes that the prong is the appropriate thing for their dog, then I'm not going to question their decision.


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## murphy1 (Jun 21, 2012)

I too, thought prong collars were barbaric. Until, I decided to get a Dogue de Bordeaux. A trainer convinced me to use one and yes it pinched him once or twice. We then walked the neighborhood and he was a gentleman. He knew when it was on!
Then along came my Murphy. An absolutely HOLY TERROR of a puppy. By the time he was, I'd say, eight or nine months old , it was a tough job to walk him...not enjoyable at all. We tried every collar and harness you could buy, until I remembered that pinch collar. It worked wonders! Never ever hurt him! Murphy knows when it's on and walks like a gentleman.
As long as you use it correctly don't think twice about it!


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## Altairss (Sep 7, 2012)

Get a cover or a bandana and just ignore them. As you are not abusing it and have the correct kind not those incorrectly spaced ones sold cheaply at pet stores, not to mention you were properly training to use it. I had never used one until Boots I have always been able to train without one but some dogs need just a bit of help for awhile which he did. He was a rescue with many behavioral issues. I was trained to use it by a certified behaviorist and long time dog trainer after we tried just about everything under the sun. Boots was a real danger to himself with any other collar. I used the same brand of collar and put the collar on myself several times around my thigh and arm to make sure I was not abusing the pressure, it was a training tool for about a six months then we quickly weaned away from it.


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## Anne Y. (Jan 6, 2017)

Pytheis said:


> I haven't ever used a prong collar on one of my dogs, but I did walk two 80lb malamutes that were "service dogs", and even with a prong on, they were extremely hard to control. Of course, the owner left the prong on 24/7, and the only time they were out of their kennels was when I walked them - 30 minutes on Mondays and Wednesdays. They went out twice to go to the bathroom on the rest of the days. That's it.
> 
> I do think that prong collars can be used properly and improperly, just like any tool. I've often wondered what happens when you take the prong off. Does the dog instantly start pulling and behaving poorly again? According to various people I know, their dogs stopped pulling on the prong, and eventually they never needed it again. The dog stopped pulling altogether.
> 
> ...



At this point, I am personally not a fan of harnesses for any dog other than those that walk well on the leash. Not only did none of the harnesses I researched and bought work for our pup to help keep him under control in the slightest, but he began to get raw spots from where the harness rubbed and on top of that, and perhaps most of all, I was very concerned about the possibility of shoulder injuries. 

I would personally never choose to use a gentle leader.


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## Anne Y. (Jan 6, 2017)

Prism Goldens said:


> ....I suppose you could misuse one, but you can misuse every tool there is. What I can't imagine is someone telling a stranger they are abusing the dog the stranger does not know.. with not knowledge of how the tool is correctly used, just carrying around an idea they actually know no actuality about.....


Agreed. Everything can be misused, and if I put a flat collar on our dog or continued to use a harness I feel like THAT would be irresponsible of me as I would not only be putting us into possible bad situations on walks, but eventually the collar or harness could cause throat or shoulder problems due to the pulling and lunging. The prong collar nips the bad behavior in the bud until training is complete. What makes it even more exasperating is that not one of the half dozen people who has..."disagreed" with the use of a prong collar has been able to give me any explanation whatsoever other than "it's mean", it's "torture", it's not "positive" enough...

I am just sick of the judgement from those who don't understand our dog and our situation and the ins and outs of the prong collar and simply jump to conclusions.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I don't allow prong collars in my training center, nor do I use them. If you are not our client, and you are not my dog, it is up to you if that s how you want to train. There is the discussion about prong collars as a tool, which we could have; there is the discussion of dog people being the "police" for everyone else that is a separate topic. Your feeling that you are sick of people judging you seems like a human to human issue.


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## ceegee (Mar 26, 2015)

Anne Y. said:


> (...) What makes it even more exasperating is that not one of the half dozen people who has..."disagreed" with the use of a prong collar has been able to give me any explanation whatsoever other than "it's mean", it's "torture", it's not "positive" enough...
> 
> I am just sick of the judgement from those who don't understand our dog and our situation and the ins and outs of the prong collar and simply jump to conclusions.


I fully agree with you that we're becoming a nation of busybodies. I can't imagine going up to a complete stranger in the street and criticizing them for their choices, and I think the suggestion of getting a cover for your collar is a good one: that way, you can use it and not be subject to judgment.

I'm among those who wouldn't choose this type of collar for my dog, and I can explain why. Some decades ago, when "positive" dog training was in its early days, I adopted a young Labrador from a shelter. She pulled like a sled dog on leash, so I took her for training to a school that, like most of them at the time, used choke chains and other aversive methods. It wasn't unusual to hear dogs yelp in class. If the choke chain didn't work, pinch collars were offered. To be honest, although our trainer was well thought-of in the dog world, I never felt comfortable, and my dog was never particularly enthusiastic about going to class, or about going for walks. And she still pulled hard. When the session at that school was over, I looked around for other options - and got really lucky. A couple of miles from our home, in downtown Montreal, a lady called Jean Donaldson had opened up a dog training school (Renaissance Dog Training) using the new "positive" training methods. I called her, she faxed me a ton of information, and I signed up for a 12-week class that literally changed my life. Those of us with dogs that pulled were taught to train our dogs without a leash at all. The leash was introduced once the dogs were able to walk nicely alongside us. It worked almost like magic, not only for me, but for the other class participants too, even those with very unruly dogs. My Labrador's attitude to our on-leash walks changed completely, and the pulling stopped almost immediately. It was as though the joy had come back - for her, and for me. It was this class, and the follow-up, that triggered my lifelong passion for dog training and dog sports. It was an incredible experience and I feel privileged to have been able to train with someone like Ms. Donaldson. 

So I personally wouldn't use a choke, pinch or prong collar because I've seen both sides of the equation and much prefer the results I'm able to achieve with other, less aversive methods. But I would never criticize someone who didn't agree with me. We live in a free world and should be allowed to make our own choices without being judged.


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## Kalhayd (May 4, 2016)

Dory doesn't require one. She's always been a great walker. My sisters, 5-year old lab, 100% requires one. Shoot, he often pulls me around with it on. 

I think people should worry about themselves and their responsibilities, before pushing their unwarranted opinions on others. 

Good luck. You're doing great!


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## FosterGolden (Mar 10, 2014)

I think it's interesting that people accuse you of choking/abusing/hurting your dog yet you say your dog walks like a dream on leash with it on. I can't imagine that random people or people you know would suggest this if they weren't seeing something other than a relaxed, happy dog walking loose-leashed down the street with his owner. Is he requiring corrections? Is he walking at the end of the lead looking stressed? Or is there any other reason they would make these assumptions or accusations? Not saying you're doing it right or wrong, but for people to speak out so often, maybe it's not going as well as you are imagining? Just a thought...


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## GoldensOldie (Apr 23, 2017)

I think part of it is that the collar looks like a torture device and people who don't know how they work assume they are painful.


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## Anne Y. (Jan 6, 2017)

FosterGolden said:


> I think it's interesting that people accuse you of choking/abusing/hurting your dog yet you say your dog walks like a dream on leash with it on. I can't imagine that random people or people you know would suggest this if they weren't seeing something other than a relaxed, happy dog walking loose-leashed down the street with his owner. Is he requiring corrections? Is he walking at the end of the lead looking stressed? Or is there any other reason they would make these assumptions or accusations? Not saying you're doing it right or wrong, but for people to speak out so often, maybe it's not going as well as you are imagining? Just a thought...


Foster, I think it's great that you are obviously more often than not surrounded by nice, polite, sensical adults who wouldn't dream of (over)sharing their unsolicited opinions with other people or displaying their batshit crazy right in the middle of the street for all the world to see by screeching at some stranger walking their dog that prong collars are cruel.

Usually I am, too, but unfortunately that's not been my total experience. And no, it isn't because Bodhi is stressed wearing his prong collar (he's a happy guy, when the collar comes out or is on is no exception), or because in reality it's "not going as well as [I am] imagining." As I said before, he requires rare, minimal corrections, and by minimal I mean light pops with the leash as instructed by our trainer. He does not react negatively to corrections because he isnt stressed, or afraid of the collar/leash. If he was, the collar wouldn't be on my dog for another millisecond. 

I think why those people have reacted to my use of a prong collar negatively has been touched on over and over again in this thread. Some people have their opinions and need to express them. Some people (a LOT of people here in Seattle) think prong collars are absolutely barbaric because they look like something a sadist would keep in a torture chamber, and so they will share their opinion of the tool because they can't help but do that as they believe they're doing the right thing by doing so. Some people just don't understand the collar and how it works and why it isn't "mean". Some think anything and everything besides an Eskimo kiss and rainbows and hugs and words of affirmation isn't positive enough, and to those people, talking to or even yelling at a stranger/shoving their opinions about positive vs. negative training methods isn't a big deal or anything out of the ordinary. Some people have legitimate reasons why they don't agree with the collar or are unsure of it and will simply start a conversation instead of jumping into the negative crap or judgement, hopefully. And some people are just #### nuts. Especially in my neighborhood. (Love you, Belltown!)


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## Anne Y. (Jan 6, 2017)

ceegee said:


> I fully agree with you that we're becoming a nation of busybodies. I can't imagine going up to a complete stranger in the street and criticizing them for their choices, and I think the suggestion of getting a cover for your collar is a good one: that way, you can use it and not be subject to judgment.
> 
> I'm among those who wouldn't choose this type of collar for my dog, and I can explain why. Some decades ago, when "positive" dog training was in its early days, I adopted a young Labrador from a shelter. She pulled like a sled dog on leash, so I took her for training to a school that, like most of them at the time, used choke chains and other aversive methods. It wasn't unusual to hear dogs yelp in class. If the choke chain didn't work, pinch collars were offered. To be honest, although our trainer was well thought-of in the dog world, I never felt comfortable, and my dog was never particularly enthusiastic about going to class, or about going for walks. And she still pulled hard. When the session at that school was over, I looked around for other options - and got really lucky. A couple of miles from our home, in downtown Montreal, a lady called Jean Donaldson had opened up a dog training school (Renaissance Dog Training) using the new "positive" training methods. I called her, she faxed me a ton of information, and I signed up for a 12-week class that literally changed my life. Those of us with dogs that pulled were taught to train our dogs without a leash at all. The leash was introduced once the dogs were able to walk nicely alongside us. It worked almost like magic, not only for me, but for the other class participants too, even those with very unruly dogs. My Labrador's attitude to our on-leash walks changed completely, and the pulling stopped almost immediately. It was as though the joy had come back - for her, and for me. It was this class, and the follow-up, that triggered my lifelong passion for dog training and dog sports. It was an incredible experience and I feel privileged to have been able to train with someone like Ms. Donaldson.
> 
> So I personally wouldn't use a choke, pinch or prong collar because I've seen both sides of the equation and much prefer the results I'm able to achieve with other, less aversive methods. But I would never criticize someone who didn't agree with me. We live in a free world and should be allowed to make our own choices without being judged.


Thank you for sharing your experience!


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## FosterGolden (Mar 10, 2014)

Anne Y. said:


> Foster, I think it's great that you are obviously more often than not surrounded by nice, polite, sensical adults who wouldn't dream of (over)sharing their unsolicited opinions with other people or displaying their batshit crazy right in the middle of the street for all the world to see by screeching at some stranger walking their dog that prong collars are cruel.
> 
> Usually I am, too, but unfortunately that's not been my total experience. And no, it isn't because Bodhi is stressed wearing his prong collar (he's a happy guy, when the collar comes out or is on is no exception), or because in reality it's "not going as well as [I am] imagining." As I said before, he requires rare, minimal corrections, and by minimal I mean light pops with the leash as instructed by our trainer. He does not react negatively to corrections because he isnt stressed, or afraid of the collar/leash. If he was, the collar wouldn't be on my dog for another millisecond.
> 
> I think why those people have reacted to my use of a prong collar negatively has been touched on over and over again in this thread. Some people have their opinions and need to express them. Some people (a LOT of people here in Seattle) think prong collars are absolutely barbaric because they look like something a sadist would keep in a torture chamber, and so they will share their opinion of the tool because they can't help but do that as they believe they're doing the right thing by doing so. Some people just don't understand the collar and how it works and why it isn't "mean". Some think anything and everything besides an Eskimo kiss and rainbows and hugs and words of affirmation isn't positive enough, and to those people, talking to or even yelling at a stranger/shoving their opinions about positive vs. negative training methods isn't a big deal or anything out of the ordinary. Some people have legitimate reasons why they don't agree with the collar or are unsure of it and will simply start a conversation instead of jumping into the negative crap or judgement, hopefully. And some people are just #### nuts. Especially in my neighborhood. (Love you, Belltown!)


I live in Portland, OR, so a similar culture to Seattle, WA, where I have lived as well. I know people who use them for the same reasons as you, and are not bothered in Portland. Which is why I mentioned that it seemed odd. 

Not a fan of prong collars myself and walk my two with flat-buckle collars in the city. I'm not all about Eskimo kisses and what-not, just a different approach to training and management. I find I have more sway, for lack of a better word, when people ask me how I trained my dogs versus yelling at people for how they are dealing with theirs. Not sure how effective people think they are by approaching strangers in a negative way about their methods. 

I agree that a person shouldn't say anything, unless of course, they are witnessing something you are not aware of (which is what I was sort of saying in my original thread). If you feel you have to use one and it's working for you but you are bothered, just slap a cover on it and save your blood pressure and stress levels.


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## Brinkleythegolden (Jun 18, 2012)

I've used them for all three of our goldens and there's always someone who thinks they need to stop you and tell you their opinion. It works for us, and that's all that matters.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

I have never used a prong collar, but have tried both the Gentle Leader and chest-clip harness. My Rocket HATED the Gentle Leader and spent the better part of a couple of months pawing at it every few feet (and believe me, I tried to positively reinforce NOT pawing at it). The chest-clip harness helped somewhat and never rubbed or anything, but it didn't solve the problem. As someone said at the beginning of the thread, what helped him the most was off-leash walking around the house and secure areas. He still pulls in public sometimes, but has calmed down some as he has gotten older. 

To the point of being judged by other people: I took him to the Houston World Series of Dog Shows back in July to get his Rally Novice title. After he was done competing each day, I put his chest-clip harness on with his regular collar to help me have something to hold on to if needed. There were lots of children and dogs everywhere. The chest-clip harness was properly fitted by our trainer and did not hurt him at all. The last day, some random woman walked up to me and informed me that I was risking shoulder injuries and needed to be careful using it and that she knew of a Gordon Setter that had jumped out of a trailer and dislocated a shoulder from wearing one. We were standing quietly behind the seats at the Golden ring watching the breed judging. I politely informed her that he was just wearing it because we were at dog show with thousands of dogs and people and that this was not our normal procedure, but just peace of mind for me. I'm not sure how standing behind the seats ringside equates to a Gordon Setter jumping out of a trailer, but I guess some people just feel the need to say something. Good luck with the prong collar and I am glad it works for you! 

P.S. I think I follow Bodhi on Instagram and Rocket has one too (@goldenrocketdog).


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## GoldensOldie (Apr 23, 2017)

maegan0412 said:


> The last day, some random woman walked up to me and informed me that I was risking shoulder injuries and needed to be careful using it


You have to watch out for Random Women! :grin2:

That just made me chuckle.


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## acetheretriever (Oct 16, 2017)

Anne Y. said:


> Just what the title says. I am sick to death of people looking at our golden wearing his Herm Sprenger prong collar and then telling me I'm essentially abusing/hurting/choking our dog because of it. I've had half a dozen people in the last 4 months, some of them strangers on the street but a few of them being people we know, do everything from instantly judging me to making comments to literally even yelling at me during walks about how I "...shouldn't choke my dog" and "deserve to be choked like I choke him by putting a torture collar on myself" and so on and so forth. It is ridiculous. What about a prong collar makes people automatically assume it's choking or hurting a dog? I have tried ALL the harnesses worth anything on the market. They didn't work for Bodhi, he would just charge/pull/lunge anyway and he is strong as an ox now. We live in a very busy downtown neighborhood, and I absolutely must have control over him-not only because we want a well trained dog, but for his safety and ours. It's not fun to have a dog try to pull into a street with cars whizzing past you.
> 
> So we bought this collar with a specific leather leash because that's what our dog trainer advised us to use because of Bodhi's pulling and lunging issues, and it has worked like an absolute DREAM from minute 1. Bodhi doesn't dislike it, and he's never seemed to mind the corrections-he just now knows that he cannot pull or lunge, or yes, there will be discomfort. I rarely have to give corrections, and when I do, it's a light pop with the leash.
> 
> Now, I could understand people's judgement if I was like, yanking his leash, making the prong collar dig into his neck, but that is not what's happening. I just wish people would at least look into prong collars before passing judgement on those who choose to use them. Sure, they look intimidating, I get it. But the Herm Sprenger is good quality, not sharp edged like some of the cheap versions, our trainer fit Bodhi's collar and added an extra link at my request, and it has a martingale. AND our vet approves this choice. So what about these collars sends people into such a tizzy? I am totally open to hearing from people here who might not agree with such collars, just please be nice about it.


 I actually had an akita previous to my current golden and he needed sooo much training and we had a positive reinforcement trainer come to our house who actually explained that the prong collars, as long as they are used to correct and not harm, are soooo much safer than flat collars which have actually been proven to harm dogs necks in the long term


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## Anne Y. (Jan 6, 2017)

I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who shared their experiences and thoughts and offered their support. And also to those few that said they wouldn't use the collar, but shared that opinion in a rational way. It really has made me feel a LOT better. I was pretty upset when I wrote my original post. I know that what we're using and how we're using it is totally ok, it's in our best interest and it's working, and we have the support of our trainer and our vet in the usage of the collar, so it shouldn't matter if we get negative feedback from people. I know I need to just smile and nod to those who share their opinions of the collar until I get a cover for it, even the crazy lady that all but chased us up the street shouting at me. I do live downtown in a very densely populated neighborhood filled with all kinds of people , so there are going to be interactions with some people some times that I, as a sane person, just need to completely ignore after considering the source.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Just throwing this out there about the busybody comment...

I started training in the 90's when literally nobody put prongs on dogs unless they were out of control and aggressive. I had my trainer back then give pretty big talks about why prongs work and psychology of it for the dogs.

Her description of the tool was along the lines of a dog's jaw around your dog's neck.

She would not permit people to use them in her classes unless they had her permission. And typically the dogs who needed prongs were not permitted in group classes. 

Choke chains (another layer down) were not permitted on dogs until they were starting the competition classes. Prior to then right in puppy class, she would give a talk on these chains, how to put them on, and the dangers of abusing the tool (ie, people leaving chains on 24/7 even on dogs going out on a tie out). 

Back then you had a lot of consideration going into tools that we use in dog training. This was right at the cusp of things changing - with many trainers who loved training and wanted to get both feet firmly into dog training forever with happy dogs were already starting to go away from the old style stuff. 

I watched a Columbo episode from the 70's or early 80's (I don't actually know LOL) and it was an episode where a dog was trained to maul somebody to death on hearing a cue word (Rosebud). The image of dog training in that episode was STARKLY different from what we do today.... 

You still have people splitting hairs about tools and training methods and yes, they can be busy bodies sometimes. I think it's what they live and breathe though.

Personally speaking, I'm not impressed or thrilled when I see dogs being walked on prongs or choke chains or the variety of harnesses which people use. That nose harness, I feel, is more detrimental than prongs around the neck. But all of these tools get abused the more we as a society moved in the direction of supposedly completely training a dog in as short a time as possible.

In the more competitive arenas out there, I think the reason why we have seen prongs evolve to a more regular tool... it's because some of the gals out there are getting older + they have higher energy and more powerful dogs. 


Some people are more outspoken and pushy...


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## Wenderwoman (Jan 7, 2013)

Anne Y. said:


> I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who shared their experiences and thoughts and offered their support. And also to those few that said they wouldn't use the collar, but shared that opinion in a rational way. It really has made me feel a LOT better. I was pretty upset when I wrote my original post. I know that what we're using and how we're using it is totally ok, it's in our best interest and it's working, and we have the support of our trainer and our vet in the usage of the collar, so it shouldn't matter if we get negative feedback from people. I know I need to just smile and nod to those who share their opinions of the collar until I get a cover for it, even the crazy lady that all but chased us up the street shouting at me. I do live downtown in a very densely populated neighborhood filled with all kinds of people , so there are going to be interactions with some people some times that I, as a sane person, just need to completely ignore after considering the source.


Just remember that even if it is inappropriate, they are doing it because the care about the dog that strongly. It is coming from a good place. It's better to have people who care that much about dogs than people who leave them chained outside or breed them to fight. So, just ignore them and keep going.

Honestly, I'm a little bit like that about declawing cats. Makes me cringe a little.


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