# Question on electric fence training



## inge (Sep 20, 2009)

Tess has had two training sessions so far and is doing ok, in my opinion, but a few things come to mind: she seems to be very 'pack-driven' (if that is a word?), not so much toy or prey driven. When the neighbours cat walks in our garden, she will run after her, but stop way before the white flags. If I throw a toy near the flags, she will stop.
But: yesterday the trainer asked me to walk up to the flags and go past them. No calling, nothing, just walk. She nearly freaked out: ran towards me, got zapped of course, and tried to pull me away from the flags. Now everytime I go near the flags, she becomes very wild, biting in my clothes, pulling...
Of course it's very sweet of her that she wants to protect me, but I feel really bad if we have to up the level just because of that, because she does so well on all the other things. Any advice?


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Hmmm...She's certainly trying to protect you. Have you tried letting the trainer walk to the other side of the e-fence and see what her reaction is?


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## inge (Sep 20, 2009)

Yep, nothing. Clung to me like glue.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

inge said:


> Yep, nothing. Clung to me like glue.


Before turning up the heat, I think I would test her with everything possible. I'm not sure if having your trainer keep her on lead while you are on the other side, and making the situation seem wonderful, will backfire or not. I hope FlyingQuiz or one of the trainers sees this.


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## GoldenMum (Mar 15, 2010)

I've had underground fence for 9 years, never had this issue with 7 different dogs trained to it. Will she do a solid stay? Maybe she needs lots of repitition to see you're not hurt by walking through?


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## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

she may not want you to 'leave' her, which makes sense. Is there any reason you'd ever be on the outside while she's in the fenced area? She may also be starting to go into a fear period and be a bit 'sucky' for a while, so you may want to just leave that part of training out till she's a bit older. Her drive to stick with mom might be too strong right now. And I would think you wouldn't want her to figure out she only gets zapped on that line and won't be on the other side of it.

Lana


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## inge (Sep 20, 2009)

GoldenMum said:


> I've had underground fence for 9 years, never had this issue with 7 different dogs trained to it. Will she do a solid stay? Maybe she needs lots of repitition to see you're not hurt by walking through?


Her stay is solid in a safe situation, but in class we only got as far as 'duration'...'distance' is the next thing...But it is certainly an idea I can work with.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

I wouldn't go outside the boundary then, but that's just me. Maybe she just needs more time to settle in. Maybe practice her watching someone else go through the boundary so she learns it's okay for people but not her? 

Very interesting though, I haven't had this issue with Daisy at all.


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## inge (Sep 20, 2009)

Bender said:


> she may not want you to 'leave' her, which makes sense. Is there any reason you'd ever be on the outside while she's in the fenced area? She may also be starting to go into a fear period and be a bit 'sucky' for a while, so you may want to just leave that part of training out till she's a bit older. Her drive to stick with mom might be too strong right now. And I would think you wouldn't want her to figure out she only gets zapped on that line and won't be on the other side of it.
> 
> Lana


No, of course there is no reason for me on the other side...And she will never be in the garden unsupervised. Not that I do not trust her, but...Well, you know the issues with an electric fence.


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

Bender said:


> she may not want you to 'leave' her, which makes sense. Is there any reason you'd ever be on the outside while she's in the fenced area? She may also be starting to go into a fear period and be a bit 'sucky' for a while, so you may want to just leave that part of training out till she's a bit older. Her drive to stick with mom might be too strong right now. And I would think you wouldn't want her to figure out she only gets zapped on that line and won't be on the other side of it.
> 
> Lana


yep...I don't think it has anything to do with protecting you from the zap...but an age related insecurity about being away from you....


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## inge (Sep 20, 2009)

LibertyME said:


> yep...I don't think it has anything to do with protecting you from the zap...but an age related insecurity about being away from you....


 
I hope so, because that seems much easier to deal with.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Then this should be easy...find out if she will do that part of the CGC were she has to be without you for a few minutes. You can do it within the safety of the training facility. The trainers will help you...


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

And if it is age-related separation anxiety, it's probably a completely normal phase that your dog will grow out of. Daisy did. If that's what it is, I would definitely avoid going outside the boundary with your dog in sight -- this will only create more fence-related anxiety. I can't imagine that would be a good thing.


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## Willow52 (Aug 14, 2009)

We just ordered an invisible fence. We have a fenced backyard but we live on acreage and want to be able to let Hank have more freedom. The backyard is large but much of it is used up with a pond, patio, hot tub & woods. We're going to 'wire' about 2 acres of flat grass.

The plan is not to have him out there unsupervised or for potty breaks, the backyard is for that but I don't want to worry about him going to the neighbor's property when we're all out there doing yardwork, sitting on the porch, at the swingset, pool etc. Our house is close to the back property line.

Keep those training tips coming!


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Willow52 said:


> The plan is not to have him out there unsupervised or for potty breaks, the backyard is for that but I don't want to worry about him going to the neighbor's property when we're all out there doing yardwork, sitting on the porch, at the swingset, pool etc. Our house is close to the back property line.


That's exactly why I got an invisible fence. I wish I could have trained her better but there are so many tempting distractions at the neighbors -- they even have deer carcasses in their yard (rural Pennsylvania LOL), and little kids ... it's just too much.

She did run through the boundary a couple of times last summer when we first installed it. Winter came but nothing much goes on here during the winter so not a lot of real-life training opportunities. So far this year she's been very good about the boundaries. Even though we weren't actively working on the training over the winter months (she didn't even wear the collar), it's like she was internalizing the training she received last summer and she's so much more reliable now. That's very interesting to me.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

One time running through an e-fence around here could be a catastrophe. I remember when my son and husband were riding bikes by a home that put the e-fence in their front yard and very close to the street. The two Rotties came charging and scared the you know what out of both of them! My other neighbor uses and e-fence, too. Both her dogs come running when we pass by. In this case it's been a training tool for Shadow. 

Hope you get this issue worked out Inge...I'm sure you will.


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## inge (Sep 20, 2009)

She's doing much better already. She feels more confident about where to go and when to stop. So now she follows me very slowly and comes running when I tell it's ok. We sit in the grass and then she relaxes. She's also getting more confident about playing in the garden. She didn't fall for the major distraction today: my son and his friends on skateboards in front of the house, so we're getting there.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

That's good news! Just don't ever think you're 100% there and let down your guard ... I still believe that invisible fences are no substitute for supervision. It's great to watch them learn though, isn't it? We have smart dogs!!


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## grrrick (Sep 10, 2009)

Given our pups are about the same age and we have a dogwatch system, I started my training too, once the weather warmed up and the snow melted.

I'm getting some very similar behavior.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

I really can't get over how much the training we did last summer settled in so nicely over the winter when we weren't doing any training at all! Our dogs are learning even when we think they're not!


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## paula bedard (Feb 5, 2008)

I think age has very much to do with how they react to the e-fence. Sam learned his at 6 months and never had an issue with me leaving the line to walk to the mailbox or get the newspaper. He obeyed the perimeter with or without his collar on. 

Ike was a itty bitty guy and he did have an issue with me leaving the perimeter for any reason and would bolt right through to be with me. He never flinched either, he'd pass the line and then return as if nothing had happened. We had an issue with him leaving the perimeter regularly for about a year and then one day, like a switch went off, he started obeying it. Now, the only time he'll pass the line is when his collar battery has died. If he doesn't hear the beep, he'll continue to walk up the driveway until I call him back. Needless to say, he cannot be outside without supervision. He's learned to get just close enough to the line causing the collar to beep without shocking him and this runs the battery down. Once the battery has died, he's moseying on up the driveway.

I'm hoping that he'll become disinterested with what's at the end of the driveway one day. It's the only section of the line he ever crosses.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

We just trained MacKenzie to the fence last month. 

Brady was trained with a professional, and my husband trained MacKenzie himself ( of course he did it his own way ). She was actually trained in 24 hours. I was nervous because she has a very high prey instinct, and has been zapped more than Brady was - maybe once a week in the past 6 weeks.

Part of our yard is not fenced in, it is where we have a barn etc. Both dogs have been zapped trying to follow us to that area (Brady once, MacKenzie twice - one time she followed my daughter got zapped, and came running to me, the other time she sat at the edge, watching my kids and husband for about 20 minutes, then decided to try it and got zapped.) It is still a learning process, she has not gone through it, if I have her on a leash and try to walk towards the boundary, she just will only let me go so far.

Brady's battery is about 8 months old, and still works, it is only supposed to have a lifespan of about 3-4 months. We use it to set the boundary flags twice. So that tells me that he rarely even goes to the area that he hears the beeps.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Does everyone keeps the flags up? My fence person said it's not necessary and they should come down but I like the visual cues. Makes mowing the lawn a pain but the visual cue is more important to me.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

No, all my flags are down.

When Brady was first trained, we kept the flags up for about 3-4 months. It was a small yard, so it was easy to put them back up after mowing.

When we moved to the new house, we put flags up for only two weeks so Brady could learn the new yard.

We put them back up for MacKenzie 6 weeks ago. I came home yesterday, and my husband had taken them down, all of them, not staggered. I did watch MacKenzie, and I can tell that she responds to the beeping, so I don't even think she realizes the flags are down.


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## inge (Sep 20, 2009)

I intend to take the flags down, but not straight away. I took Tess out for a walk today, so we had to pass the flags. She didn't wear her collar, but still refused to go when she was near the flags. I made her sit and gave her the cue word I use with training, when she is free to go. It worked really well: when she heard the cue word, she stepped right over the fence and didn't look back. I tried it several times after that with the collar and no cue word, and she stayed inside without a problem.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

inge said:


> I intend to take the flags down, but not straight away. I took Tess out for a walk today, so we had to pass the flags. She didn't wear her collar, but still refused to go when she was near the flags. I made her sit and gave her the cue word I use with training, when she is free to go. It worked really well: when she heard the cue word, she stepped right over the fence and didn't look back. I tried it several times after that with the collar and no cue word, and she stayed inside without a problem.


I need to train my dogs to do this, but I am afraid to. Did you put a visual on the ground for them to step on? Like a towel or mat? Do you use the same spot to leave and enter the yard?


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## inge (Sep 20, 2009)

cubbysan said:


> I need to train my dogs to do this, but I am afraid to. Did you put a visual on the ground for them to step on? Like a towel or mat? Do you use the same spot to leave and enter the yard?


 
I use the same spot: the driveway. That is also a hard one, because there are no flags on the driveway, only next to it. I went to the spot a lot of times when the zap level was still very low, so she would hear the buzz, but not necessarily get zapped. She did get zapped there during the official training, so she's very focused on that area of the garden. She still doesn't like to play in the front garden, but luckily our back garden is very large.
I do not use a visual thing like a mat, I just react to Tess: where she sits down on the driveway, I give the cue word. Usually that is near where the buzz would be.


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## Willow52 (Aug 14, 2009)

Well, the fence is installed and we've been training Hank since Sat. Last night we let him off leash to play within his boundary yard. DH was bucket watering some young trees outside the flags, Hank & I were playing ball. As Hank ran over to DH, we reminded him with a "aaaaaa, be careful" and he stopped at the flags, sat and waited. He checked out his whole area staying within the boundary. I allowed him to be zapped during the training phase and he now knows what that warning beep means.

So far so good. The only down side...removing 100 flags and replacing them after each mowing!


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Willow52 said:


> So far so good. The only down side...removing 100 flags and replacing them after each mowing!


LOL, I totally hear you on that one! :bowl: I'm going to take all the flags down today. I'll save them, just in case, but I'm going to mow today, the flags have been up for almost a year now and I think it's time to take the next step. She has been so good so far this year, not even a hint of wanting to cross the boundary, she stays well away from them. It still just amazes me how much our training last summer solidified over the winter. 

And about crossing the boundary when we go for a walk, I think she just trusts me. I put her leash on, I say "it's okay" when we get ready to cross and she shows no hesitation at all. I'm happy about that


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## inge (Sep 20, 2009)

Tess recently made the connection between the collar and the buzzing/zapping. So with the collar she'll stay inside, and when I have her on her ordinary leash she doesn't look up or down again, just walks on. I still supervise her all the time, though...it's amazing what she finds interesting to play with and chew on!


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

So happy to hear that Tess and Daisy are doing so well.

We took the flags down for MacKenzie a few weeks ago too - and she is doing awesome. 

She will chase birds throughout our yard, but knows when to stop at the boundary. If any of us leave the boundary, she and Brady just patiently lay down and watch us until we come back.


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## paula bedard (Feb 5, 2008)

Glad to hear she's doing better. We did leave our flags up, but we're in the woods and have the flags at the wood line so the flags are not in the way of mowing the lawn.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Wow! Today my son came over and he parks outside the boundary. Daisy was on the porch and ordinarily she would run to him ... but not this time, she stayed close to the porch and waited for him to come to her. MAJOR success!!! 

We have not had a single incident of her breaking the boundaries this spring yet. And she's had some pretty strong temptations. I know nothing is ever 100%, but by george, i think she's got it.

:greenboun


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