# Need Discipline Advice



## Baileysmom (Aug 5, 2006)

It is really hard with a small puppy. We got Bailey after not having a puppy for 8 1/2 years. Boy, do you forget how much work they are. One of the things that I have discovered, is a tired puppy is a better behaved, happy puppy. If I walk Bailey for at least 2 miles a day or more, I don't have to discipline him nearly as often. I would also suggest checking out a puppy obedience class and joining. He gets to socialize, they teach you training methods and it makes him tired (at least that day). Consistency is definitely the key. If you let him do something once, he will think he can do it again. There are lots of great people here and I am sure they will have other great ideas for you.


----------



## goldenhvn (Jan 2, 2007)

I used a LOT of sharp loud NO's!! And try this (I love links)

Leerburg Dog Training - the Ground Work to becoming a Puppies Pack Leader - Raising Puppie


----------



## Rocky (Dec 28, 2006)

Thanks Baileysmom. We are actually starting an obedience class tonight. So, I hope that helps and gives me some more advice and guidance.

It is a lot of work and I am up for the task. I just want to find the best way and stick to it.

I should try walking him more often. He is still learning the leash thing, so it isn't always the funnest thing to do. And it can be pretty hilarious watching me walk him, too. Most of the driveways around here are all icey. The other day I took him for a walk and nearly fell on my butt three times (and of course, there was always someone watching). The biggest problem for me is that I can not walk him until after hubby gets home (since I have two little ones at home) and then it is dark (and slippery). But, I think I will make more of an effort with that and see if it helps. Thanks.


----------



## Brandy's Mom (Oct 5, 2005)

For chewing, invest in a bottle of Bitter Apple Spray. It will help you get past this puppy phase. 

Be consistent. Correct, re-direct and praise. For instance, if he's chewing on something, say "no" and re-direct him to a chew toy. Then praise "good boy" for chewing on the proper toy. 

For furniture, just keep putting him on all fours while saying "off" or whatever your word is. Then when he stays off for even a few seconds, say "good off" and give him attention. 

Believe it or not, these things will become second nature to you after a while.


----------



## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I cannot imagine having a dog in my house that was leaping up at my table and grabbing food. I am all for positive training but if my dog did that, I would scruff him hard and yank him down and scream DONT YOU DARE!!!!!!!!!!! Some things are just... too much!!! Don't ALLOW it, IMO. I am not suggesting harsh or negative methods to teach the dog things, but I draw the line at things like you're describing. I wouldn't allow it, either. I can say I don't have dogs doing that stuff. If they ever tried it once, they met a harsh correction and it never happened again. 

The trick with corrections when you DO use them is to use a harsh one right away. Don't start easy and build. The dog builds a tolerance and just ignores you. And always praise the pup when he does things the right way. For the record I don't think corrections have any place at ALL in teaching commands (sit, down, heel, etc) but I do use them for absolute "sins" around the house. Things I'd give a hard and instant correction for would be grabbing at food, grabbing at objects, aggression, pulling on the leash hard, getting into the litter box, or trying to run out the front door without permission.


----------



## Rocky (Dec 28, 2006)

Well, so far it doesn't seem like I am missing anything. Most of what has been said, I have been doing. When he jumps up on the furniture we say "down" and then say "good boy" when he gets down. My husbands comment is this: jump=praise....he sees it as when rocky jumps up, we say down, he gets down, he gets praise. In the end isn't he getting praised for jumping? Does a pup understand it is for getting down and not jumping? Not saying this is wrong, because this is what we are doing, too.

I do praise him anytime he starts chewing on one of his toys. But I don't always redirect his chewing. I will start doing that. I usually just yell no or tell him to come here and give it to me and that is the end of it, but redirecting is a good idea.

We have had him now for 7 weeks and I just don't see much of an improvement on these two issues and I thought I was doing something wrong. But, I guess it will just take a lot longer than I thought. I wouldn't mind an occasional kids toy in his mouth or an occasional jump, but this is constant. I can't wait to see just a tiny bit of improvement so that I know we are on our way.

Thanks again.


----------



## Katiesmommy (Sep 10, 2006)

Seeing our pups are around the same age I tried the OUCH - dont bite. Hold her mouth closed when bitting...frozen dish cloths - no luck. 

She sometimes sits in her crate when I am working at home and crys...now learning how to bark (LOUD) lol. 

I have learned to let her follow me around the house and when she gets bored shes falling sleep in her own comfy spot and when she jumps or bites I get up and walk away. Yelling isnt fun so maybe let him be on your hip...try that out for a while and see how its goes.


----------



## mainegirl (May 2, 2005)

Have you t ried putting a leash on him and attaching it to your belt. That way he is in your eyesight and correctible with a pop of the leash whenever there is trouble. I had to do this for one of my dogs.... after a bit it worked although my trainer believes that once a "Pig" (counter surfer) always a counter surfer, because any opportunity reinforces this behavior.

beth, moose, angel
and sandy at the bridge


----------



## jeffreyzone (Feb 8, 2006)

Katiesmommy said:


> Seeing our pups are around the same age I tried the OUCH - dont bite. Hold her mouth closed when bitting...frozen dish cloths - no luck.
> 
> She sometimes sits in her crate when I am working at home and crys...now learning how to bark (LOUD) lol.
> 
> I have learned to let her follow me around the house and when she gets bored shes falling sleep in her own comfy spot and when she jumps or bites I get up and walk away. Yelling isnt fun so maybe let him be on your hip...try that out for a while and see how its goes.


Good for you, Amy! You're finding what works for Katie. When you calmly walk away from her bites, she is getting the message. 

Hey, it's about time for another round of Katie photos! Are you saving them for next month's photo contests?


----------



## VeronicaLovesHerGoldens (May 27, 2005)

I took Cosmo to puppy kindergarten and they suggested naming everything and sticking with the name you gave it so the puppy will eventually get it. Just like when you tell him "sit" - he understands what that means. The instructor said that you should always praise the good behavior and ignore the bad.

Like when you walk in the house and he jumps on you - turn your back and ignore him and keep on ignoring him until he is calm and then pat him and say good sit (if he's sitting.)

I found the shrieking really loud when Cosmo would bite me with those sharp little baby teeth worked well. He would end up licking my hand after I shrieked - like he was apologizing for hurting me.

She also said to praise quickly if he does something good because at this stage the good behavior doesn't last very long!

Cosmo is 5 months old now and he really is a holy terror! He gets into everything - before I leave the room I double check to make sure nothing is within his range and yet he still seems to manage to find things he shouldn't have.

I'll be taking Cosmo to more obedience training classes because I think he has great potential - his only problem is his trainer - ME!!!!

Good luck! They really are great dogs!!!


----------



## LaurJen (Aug 10, 2006)

No criticism here!  I had it easier than you because I don't have toddlers at home and my kids were (are) old enough to help me out... and it was still hard!

I'm not a fan of yelling as a form of discipline. Sometimes it is useful to get their attention when they are doing something _really_ bad, but if you're yelling all the time, they are just going to tune you out. And I also think it shows the pup that you have no real power--leaders lead by quiet authority and a calm demeanor, not by yelling and screaming and flying off the handle like a crazy person  I don't imagine you have much free time to sit around and read books, but if you do, pick up a copy of The Other End of the Leash by Patricia McConnell. It's not a how-to book, but rather an interesting read on how dogs act and how they perceive our actions. There is a chapter on "The Truth About Dominance" that I thought was an especially interesting read. I wish I had read this book when we first got Augie, rather than watching too many episodes of The Dog Whisperer 

Anyway, none of this helps you, soooo...... One thing you can try, other than being consistent, is to tell your dog what you want him to do, rather than always telling him what not to do. For instance, instead of yelling, "Stop that right now!," tell the dog to sit. He obeys, he gets a treat. I understand your husband's thinking that the dog will keep doing the bad thing in order to get a treat when he stops, but trust me, he won't. Keep your pocket filled with treats so that they are handy. What I used to do was reserve a small portion of Augie's kibble from each meal and use those as treats--that way I could give him treats often without worrying about overfeeding.

I know you're feeling frustrated, but Rocky isn't going to turn into a calm, obedient puppy any time soon. Augie was a crazy dog, especially around the 4.5-5 month mark..._and I worked with him all the time_. If you kind of accept that, you won't feel like you're doing something wrong.


----------



## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Agree with the kibble as a treat!

And agree that yelling all the time is pointless. That was my point also. Short and to the point is best when correcting.


----------



## Molly's Mom (Jan 1, 2007)

Molly's around the same age as Rocky and Katie and it looks like we're all going through similar experiences. I'd love to ignore her and walk away when she's biting, but she seems to have either my sleeve or my pantleg in her mouth. It's tough to walk away with the dog still hanging on. :yuck: 

I am noticing some improvement, she seems to be able to control her bite reflex better than she did a few weeks ago. She rarely chomps down and tries really hard to keep her mouth open. 

I just got back from the vet. I told him about the jumping and climbing. He suggested lightly stepping on her toes while loudly saying OFF to her. He said she should back off and to give her a treat when she does. I will try that when she gets up from her nap.

I've been using the crate more often when she gets out of hand. She doesn't seem to mind and usually nods off for a while. I'm going to be enrolling Molly in puppy school soon. None of them would take her till she was 10 weeks old.

*For Rocky's mom:* Do you have doggy day care near you? I'm planning to take Molly for one day while my husband has a minor surgical procedure done. She will get to spend the day with other pups and it should tire her out. The fee is $23 for 11 hours of care. They have a nice play area and she can be either indoors or outdoors. I'm hoping she will be too tired to be ripping off his bandages. I'm planning to go for a visit next week to check the place out. If you have a facility nearby, it might be fun if you could drop Rocky off 1 day a week. It would give all of you a break.


----------



## Rocky (Dec 28, 2006)

Your right......I need to keep my cool. That is easier said than done (especially with three kids driving your crazy, too). And especially coming from a house full of hot heads. 
But, it is definitely something I need to work on.
Whenever I do discipline, Rocky will come over to me and try and get under my arm for me to pet him----he is saying he is sorry.

Last night we had a first.......It was bed time and we did our usual routine, of potty and then bedroom. And we let him roam our room while we get ready and then we put him in the crate. Well, last nighth he went right into his crate and laid down and waited for us to shut the door. I was so impressed and couldn't stop praising him. He slept from 10pm until 7am! Now that is something to be proud of.

Thanks for all of your support and help.


----------



## Lil_Sandy (Oct 31, 2006)

With Sandy a firm "No" usually does the trick. I have found with Sandy (and other dogs I have had in the past) that consistency and diligence is the key. What I mean is if you catch them while they are in the act of whatever it is that you disapprove of you must correct it immediately... every time. Eventually they will learn that whatever it was they were doing is not acceptable and eventually stop. I agree that yelling is not very helpful and eventually the dog will become desensitized. Under certain circumstances a treat reward for stopping unwanted behavior is helpful, but I try to limit this type of training. I do not want Sandy to purposefully get into mischief just to get a treat :doh: . I'm by no stretch of the imagination an expert; this is just my personal experience. Good luck.


----------



## jeffreyzone (Feb 8, 2006)

LaurJen said:


> No criticism here!  I had it easier than you because I don't have toddlers at home and my kids were (are) old enough to help me out... and it was still hard!
> 
> I'm not a fan of yelling as a form of discipline. Sometimes it is useful to get their attention when they are doing something _really_ bad, but if you're yelling all the time, they are just going to tune you out. And I also think it shows the pup that you have no real power--leaders lead by quiet authority and a calm demeanor, not by yelling and screaming and flying off the handle like a crazy person  I don't imagine you have much free time to sit around and read books, but if you do, pick up a copy of The Other End of the Leash by Patricia McConnell. It's not a how-to book, but rather an interesting read on how dogs act and how they perceive our actions. There is a chapter on "The Truth About Dominance" that I thought was an especially interesting read. I wish I had read this book when we first got Augie, rather than watching too many episodes of The Dog Whisperer
> 
> ...


Wow, so much good stuff in your post, LaurJen, that I quoted the whole thing. Your point of view is really valuable because you've recently come through the stage that Rocky's Mom and Molly's Mom and several others are experiencing. And even though we all know that Augie is the perfect Golden Retriever in every way, it helps to read about your approach to working with him. 

Thanks!!!


----------



## Lexie's Mom (Dec 14, 2005)

Rocky said:


> Please don't criticize me.....:uhoh:
> But, I could use some guidance with how to discipline my pup. I would like to know how you guys have disciplined your pups and what worked. My biggest issues are the chewing everything in his path and jumping on the furniture, and table to eat the food on it. What I try to do is get his attention (which means chasing him around the house if he doesn't come right to me) and then yell "no" at him. But, most of the time 2 seconds later he is doing the same thing. I hate yelling at him all day long. I want to love him and cuddle him as much as possible and I hate yelling.
> I know, I know, what did I expect with a golden......I have heard that before.
> I just want to know what worked for you. This way I can stick to one thing and eventually he will get it (and most of you say it takes years, so I am ready for that).
> ...



When Lexie and Hooch were small, i put a bunch of bolts in a metal coffee can. When i seen them doing something i didn't want to allow, i shook it really fast. It made such a loud noise and the'd run away. It worked great for them.


----------



## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Good idea! Was just PMing with that Lexie's Mom


----------



## LaurJen (Aug 10, 2006)

Lexie's Mom said:


> When Lexie and Hooch were small, i put a bunch of bolts in a metal coffee can. When i seen them doing something i didn't want to allow, i shook it really fast. It made such a loud noise and the'd run away. It worked great for them.


And my dog thought, "Oooo, you made me a shake can? Yeehaw! Shake it some more, Mom!"  He also thought that Bitter Apple was a delicious drink and that my walking away when he was nipping meant "let me chase you and nip the back of your pants." Just trying to point out that everything you hear should be viewed as "suggestions"--try them out and see which works for your particular dog. There are all different ways to train/discipline a dog and even the "experts" don't agree.


----------



## njb (Oct 5, 2006)

I actually had to think for awhile what I did with Julie at that age--took me a couple hours remember...LOL

Essentially I made a game of calling her and getting her to come to me when I would find her on the kitchen table eating the cat food--or sitting in her water bowl--or eating a case of TP--Remember how Cary Grant is famous for saying Judy Judy Judy? We kinda did that with Julie...(but I sound nothing like him of course)-I was always upbeat about it--when she came to me she got loved on of course. Then I would start another game that was ok for her to play--like fetch. The upside to doing this is since she has been very little, and still does-will come to me when called. Sometimes she is really having fun being naughty-then I have to up the 'happy voice' to make her want to run right too me. As the bond with you grows--they will want to please you more and more-I think she has learned my body language, when the hand goes on the hip, and Mom says--what do you think your doing? She comes running. 

Don't ask me how to keep them off the couch--never been something I even cared to try to teach. Just my way of doing things. 

Really I think the whole key to all training is getting them to *want* to watch you--but I am not a trainer by a long shot. There is something to be said for rewarding the behavior you like and ignoring the behavior you don't want.


----------



## njb (Oct 5, 2006)

oh and one more note about treats--I buy those freeze dried liver treats--they are not cheap either--but cut them in half they last longer. 

My trainer called them 'crack for dogs'

It is perfectly fine to give treats to teach behavior--I don't recommend getting too heavily reliant on them though. But there is a long lesson from the psychology of learning and 'scheudles of reinforcement' which I won't bore you with as my reason for saying that. 

Keep your chin up--you'll make it!


----------



## Rocky (Dec 28, 2006)

Thank you all for the positive suggestions!!!!!
I will definitely try some of these.


----------



## Leo's Mom (Feb 27, 2006)

mainegirl said:


> Have you t ried putting a leash on him and attaching it to your belt. That way he is in your eyesight and correctible with a pop of the leash whenever there is trouble. I had to do this for one of my dogs.... after a bit it worked although my trainer believes that once a "Pig" (counter surfer) always a counter surfer, because any opportunity reinforces this behavior.
> 
> This was Leo's favorite past time as a puppy. If there was a counter he was on it. He was also quite the biter, in fact he hand no bite inhibition at all so I feel your pain literally. My trainer told me about the leash tied to the belt and it was a god send! Leo could do nothing without me being there to watch. While I was in the kitchen cooking or pretending to cook and Leo jumped up on the counter the leash got a tug, not much you just have a baby and a quick verbal no. Then I always made him go into a sit and then he got major praise and a small training treat. The down side, Leo sits in the kitchen when you are there and stares at you, oh, sometimes he does that when he wants a treat and I am not in the kitchen. The up side no counter surfing.
> 
> ...


----------

