# Logan 140 lbs Triton 130 lbs



## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

just got back from Burlington vet hospital, Logan 63.8kgs Triton 59.1kgs

Triton is still slim but Logan has to lose 15lbs, hopefully the raw diet

I have them on will do the trick

Picture on rock taken couple days ago


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## esSJay (Apr 13, 2009)

Logan weighs almost 2½ times as much as Molson! Hopefully he can slim down in time for bathing suit season :


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## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

I think they will have to start a biggest loser show for dogs next


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## Phillyfisher (Jan 9, 2008)

How tall are they? Cause if I added 60 lbs to Tucker, his belly would be rubbing on the floor, or he would be too wide to fit thru the door! LOL.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

I do not believe these weights are accurate. and it means that they have gained even more since this thread:

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/showthread.php?t=65413

Logan at that time you said was 119 pounds and Triton 109. 
No way. These dogs would be morbidly obese if even the earlier thread weights were true.


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## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

I think last time I measured around 28 and 26inchs if I did it right


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## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> I do not believe these weights are accurate. and it means that they have gained even more since this thread:
> 
> http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/showthread.php?t=65413
> 
> ...


I went to same place, the exact date they got fixed was May 22 09

They bin at the Ontario meetings in pictures, I,ll get someone to lift one next meet


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

Wow...those dogs weigh more than I do and I'm 5'6. Holy smokes.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

2Retrievers222 said:


> I went to same place, the exact date they got fixed was May 22 09
> 
> They bin at the Ontario meetings in pictures, I,ll get someone to lift one next meet


 You seem very proud of their size, but I will never be convinced that those dogs weigh that much. Even if your height measurements were correct they would be much much fatter than your photos show. Sorry. A friend of ours has a Labrador who is truly over a hundred pounds and he is _far_ larger than either of your two.


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## esSJay (Apr 13, 2009)

Pointgold said:


> You seem very proud of their size, but I will never be convinced that those dogs weigh that much. Even if your height measurements were correct they would be much much fatter than your photos show. Sorry. A friend of ours has a Labrador who is truly over a hundred pounds and he is _far_ larger than either of your two.


These guys are pretty tall... I'd say they are at _least_ a good 6" taller than Molson, they absolutely tower over him. I've never measured Molson so I can't say how tall he is in comparison, but Molson looks to me to be pretty standard.


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## esSJay (Apr 13, 2009)

On the right side of the background you can see Molson standing next to one of Richard's boys... is that Triton?


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## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

I,ll go to different vet and take picture of them on scale showing weight

and just measured the way you said was correct way Logan 27 half, Triton 29 quarter


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## jwemt81 (Aug 20, 2008)

I have to agree. Unless they are super insanely tall, I don't think those weights are accurate at all. That would dangerously obese. Your dogs do look to be bit overweight, but I have an extremely hard time believing that's what their true weights are. My Goldens wouldn't even be able to get up and walk around if they were that heavy!


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## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

esSJay said:


> On the right side of the background you can see Molson standing next to one of Richard's boys... is that Triton?
> 
> View attachment 75542


 
Thats Triton, before Triton got fixed at 90lbs vet said he should gain some weight to skinny at 90lbs, ribs were showing like a police dog



Do vets recalculate scales in office so dogs weigh more to sell weight control food


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## CrystalG (Aug 12, 2009)

Wow, those boys can't weigh that much! They don't look that large.


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## mdoats (Jun 7, 2007)

So they are larger than a standard Great Pyrenees, Bermese Mountain dog, Bull Mastiff or Newfie?!? That's crazy!


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## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

At last GR meeting there was a Bermese Mountain dog I asked if it was a puppy man said no, compared to my guys I thought it was a puppy, I hope the scale is wrong, will be less work to slim down


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

My in-laws have very overweight labs. It's sad. The biggest is about 110lbs. Couldn't find a GOOD picture... but yeah. Diesel is the one next to the chocolate lab. The chocolate lab (Bully) is the only intact one, and the only one who isn't grossly overweight. Well... I guess Jazzy, the mom of the other labs, the black lab next to Diesel isn't TOO overweight.


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

Here's another picture of them.


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## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

looks like they are praying


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## mm03gn (Sep 24, 2008)

Logan and Triton are VERY tall...the tallest golden retrievers I've ever seen. I have no doubts that they weight that much...


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

2Retrievers222 said:


> Triton is still slim but Logan has to lose 15lbs, hopefully the raw diet



Wow I'm having a hard time even imagining Golden Retrievers being 130 and 140 lbs, and an even harder time believing a 130 lb GR is "still slim". Time these dogs go on a major diet.


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

They could try the Golden Workout!


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## mdoats (Jun 7, 2007)

As a point of reference.... here's some info on Giant dog breeds:

Irish Wolfhound: weight: 105-125 lbs. height: 35-35 in.
Great Danes: weight: 100-120 lbs. height: 28-32 in.
English Mastiff: weight: 175-250 lbs. height: 27.5-32 in.
Neopolitan Mastiff: weight: 150-180 lbs. height: 26-31 in.
Newfoundland: weight: 130-150 lbs. height 28-30 in.
Saint Bernard: weight: 150-200 lbs. height: 27-30 in. 

And Golden Retrievers definitely don't fall into the "giant" category.

I'm curious, do you have any information about Logan and Triton's parents? Or are they rescues? Just curious about how big their parents were.


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## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

heres a pic from GR meeting 3 Triton and a Mastiff I think its a type of Mastiff


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## CrystalG (Aug 12, 2009)

esSJay said:


> On the right side of the background you can see Molson standing next to one of Richard's boys... is that Triton?
> 
> View attachment 75542


WOW!!!!! Triton is REALLY TALL! With that kind of height I guess it wouldn't be hard to weigh that much. Big boy.


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## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

mdoats said:


> As a point of reference.... here's some info on Giant dog breeds:
> 
> Irish Wolfhound: weight: 105-125 lbs. height: 35-35 in.
> Great Danes: weight: 100-120 lbs. height: 28-32 in.
> ...


Father was Diesel and mother was jenny had a little yellow lab in her blood couple generation back. Diesel purebred, his arms were as big as mine and head was bigger than rott, From Hanes corn maze across from Cristies conservation, farm that sells pies, and has corn maze


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## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

Mssjnnfer said:


> They could try the Golden Workout!


 
I want to try to put logan on back and do squats and get video of it, wont even try to curl him, only do 115 for reps


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## CherryBlossom (May 3, 2010)

Besides Goldens, I have a Saint Bernard of a smaller frame (she is a girl). She weights 130 lbs. 

Leia (my Golden) was pregnant and three days before whelping she was 110 lbs. I thought it was too much! Her normal weight is 65 lbs. 

What kind of a vet would tell you that your dog needs more weight if Golden Retriever Standard clearly stands for 70 (or was it 75?) lbs? I mean, unless your dog is not really Golden, then maybe, but still. Even with a yellow lab somewhere in the heritage, still - yellow lab is not a giant breed.

How did they get so thick?... They do look pretty think in the pictures... I don't know how others can't see that. Maybe because I saw Leia when she was 110 lbs?


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

2Retrievers222 said:


> I want to try to put logan on back and do squats and get video of it, wont even try to curl him, only do 115 for reps


LOL, stay tuned, we're working on kitty calf-raises.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Wow, your boys are big dogs. Must be some large breed in their background.


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## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

CherryBlossom said:


> Besides Goldens, I have a Saint Bernard of a smaller frame (she is a girl). She weights 130 lbs.
> 
> Leia (my Golden) was pregnant and three days before whelping she was 110 lbs. I thought it was too much! Her normal weight is 65 lbs.
> 
> ...


I walked them on Bruce trail since pups,never on streets three times a day when they were four months for 6 months when I busted discs in neck.

First year fed them dog food plus cod liver oil and goats milk every second day

There brother Molson is 70lbs he was the runt


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## Heidi36oh (Feb 27, 2007)

Wow you got some big boys, I thought Chloe was too heavy at 95 pounds, now 90 pounds (working on it)

My boys are tall but weigh no more then 85 pounds for 27 inches at the shoulder.


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## zephyr (Sep 29, 2009)

Wow, they are twice Oscar's size. (He just got weighed in at ~30kg at the vet.) But I would totally believe those weights, having seen them in person! They are definitely big boys... and as the others have said, they are very tall and definitely longer than Oscar.

IMO personally I would have thought they both needed to lose weight, I'm surprised to hear that your vet says it's only Logan who does. Do you mind sharing how much (by weight) raw food they get every day? Oscar gets <2% of his body weight every day (in raw meat/bone+some veggies), plus extras such as treats for training. But I guess it's hard to compare their activity levels/metabolism directly because Oscar does much less walking than your guys, but maybe more running around at the park (?)

Here's another picture from the last GRF meet (not the best picture unfortunately) of Oscar next to your guys... imagine Oscar standing up and I think your dogs are at least a head taller than him! :bowl:


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## CherryBlossom (May 3, 2010)

2Retrievers222 said:


> I walked them on Bruce trail since pups,never on streets three times a day when they were four months for 6 months when I busted discs in neck.
> 
> First year fed them dog food plus cod liver oil and goats milk every second day
> 
> There brother Molson is 70lbs he was the runt


Well, the main thing is you care and you're going to fix this issue. I am still wondering though - that picture with a mastiff - your Golden must be tall! Well, good luck to you and your kiddos! Keep us posted!


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## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

they get 2.7lbs each, based on 90lb dog, only on raw for maybe 2 months, they only get 1 hour and halh walk these days, going to increase to 3 hours on weekends and Mondays, vet has not seen them since fixed.

I took them to scale to see if they started to lose weight, did not expect to be bigger than last time


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

2Retrievers222 said:


> they get 2.7lbs each, based on 90lb dog, only on raw for maybe 2 months, they only get 1 hour and halh walk these days, going to increase to 3 hours on weekends and Mondays, vet has not seen them since fixed.
> 
> I took them to scale to see if they started to lose weight, did not expect to be bigger than last time


Did you weigh without the vet? Is it possible the scale wasn't properly calibrated? Even if those dogs are insanely tall, 64kg doesn't seem possible.


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## momtoMax (Apr 21, 2009)

The last time I took Max to the vet he was 85 pounds. He's filled out since then and he will continue to. I know he's gotta be around 90 pounds, maybe more and he'll gain some more weight as he widens. I always thought Max was tall - but these guys must be bigger. 

Some goldens can be out of standard as much as Max is and still be golden through and through. Just means they've been bred, like Max, from out of standard parents. For Max it was his dad. His dad weighs in at 100 pounds approximately but his mom was standard.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I am so sorry for those of you who have goldens out of standard (tall). It is heartbreaking as they get older and you have to watch them struggle in pain to get up off the floor, walk, or run. I know. I have one.
Just like people who are 8 feet tall, the out of standard dogs are much more prone to structural problems, especially as they age. It's very very sad when your best buddy has a lousy quality of life because of his size.
My Toby is 26 inches tall, and I keep him at 80 pounds. Yes, he's SKINNY at that weight. Most people (but not my vet) think he's MUCH too thin. They ask if I feed the dog. But my vet believes that's a main reason a big dog like Toby is still around at 12 years, 3 months old. I've kept him thin and fit his whole life to keep down the stress on his bones, joints, and muscles. 
My Tiny, who is 1 year older and is to standard, doesn't have nearly the structural issues and pains my poor Toby has.
I feel so bad for all of you with big dogs, and I hope you won't suffer the heartbreak I am suffering watching Toby struggle to get up off the tile floor these days.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

hotel4dogs said:


> I am so sorry for those of you who have goldens out of standard (tall). It is heartbreaking as they get older and you have to watch them struggle in pain to get up off the floor, walk, or run. I know. I have one.
> Just like people who are 8 feet tall, the out of standard dogs are much more prone to structural problems, especially as they age. It's very very sad when your best buddy has a lousy quality of life because of his size.
> My Toby is 26 inches tall, and I keep him at 80 pounds. Yes, he's SKINNY at that weight. Most people (but not my vet) think he's MUCH too thin. They ask if I feed the dog. But my vet believes that's a main reason a big dog like Toby is still around at 12 years, 3 months old. I've kept him thin and fit his whole life to keep down the stress on his bones, joints, and muscles.
> My Tiny, who is 1 year older and is to standard, doesn't have nearly the structural issues and pains my poor Toby has.
> I feel so bad for all of you with big dogs, and I hope you won't suffer the heartbreak I am suffering watching Toby struggle to get up off the tile floor these days.


Hips, elbows, knees... increased possibility of ACL injuries. Increased possibility of bloat. Cardiac problems. All much more prevelent in oversized dogs.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

According to a large, long-term study funded by Purina, even moderately overweight dogs live almost two years less, on average, than dogs kept at an appropriate weight. They also experience the onset of many geriatric conditions almost two years earlier than dogs kept at a healthy weight.

There's also some limited evidence to suggest that overweight dogs are at elevated risk for some cancers, though I don't regard that research as conclusive at this time.

At that's just the issues that arise with being moderately overweight, without adding in the possible structural problems that come from being out of standard.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

My parents' GSD mix that they just had to have put to sleep was 30" tall and weighed 115 lbs. He wasn't fat, he actually looked great at that weight. 

Problem is, once he was paralyzed, they couldn't lift him easily and therefore a wheelchair wasn't an option for him. That and the lack of quality of life are the reasons they had to euthanize him.


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## Muddypaws (Apr 20, 2009)

Wow and I thought Darby was big at a lean 92 pounds. 

Darby's father is a conformation champion and his Mom (Scully) is well with in standard so I don't know where his size came from as his pedigree is full of CH dogs on both sides. He looks heavier because of his coat but when you get your hands on him you can feel his trim waist and ribs.


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## NuttinButGoldens (Jan 10, 2009)

Yeah, something's not right here. A friend of mine has a female hospital-assistance Golden, and she is overweight. Very. Very wide. She looks like an aircraft carrier. Litteraly. And she's no where near that kind of weight. Probably 105 at most.



Pointgold said:


> I do not believe these weights are accurate. and it means that they have gained even more since this thread:
> 
> http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/showthread.php?t=65413
> 
> ...


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## NuttinButGoldens (Jan 10, 2009)

I met an English Mastiff at Wylie Wagg a few months ago. I am like 6'4" @ 350lbs, and I felt like this dog could kick my ass at any second.

He was only 6 months old... Yikes!



mdoats said:


> As a point of reference.... here's some info on Giant dog breeds:
> 
> Irish Wolfhound: weight: 105-125 lbs. height: 35-35 in.
> Great Danes: weight: 100-120 lbs. height: 28-32 in.
> ...


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

I have a hard time with that weight too. They look "slightly" heavy but not that much. Belle was 120 pounds. She is a BIG dog, she stands 27" tall. She was HUGE when she weighed that much. I am pleased to say I got her down to 85 pounds and we have kept it off for the past 3+ years. 

As for a biggest loser for dogs. I remember seeing a show on Animal Planet out of the UK where they followed two or three OBESE dogs. Two of them the owners made great strides at getting the weight off. One had to have knee surgery and the vet would not do it until the dog lost "X" pounds. Got the weight off that dog. Then there was the rottie! OMG this dog looked like a HIPPO!!! Passerbys would gasp at the size of this dog, and the owner did not see a problem. She would by it POUNDS of meat at the butcher every day. She would not listen when people told her she was killing her dog. It was REALLY sad and really disgusting. She should have had her dog removed for cruelty. She was killing it literally with kindness. 

Ann


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## NuttinButGoldens (Jan 10, 2009)

I can't tell much from the dog to dog comparison, but he dwarfs the Honda in the background LOL



2Retrievers222 said:


> heres a pic from GR meeting 3 Triton and a Mastiff I think its a type of Mastiff


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## NuttinButGoldens (Jan 10, 2009)

I think these guys left the standards behind at around 4 months...



CherryBlossom said:


> Besides Goldens, I have a Saint Bernard of a smaller frame (she is a girl). She weights 130 lbs.
> 
> Leia (my Golden) was pregnant and three days before whelping she was 110 lbs. I thought it was too much! Her normal weight is 65 lbs.
> 
> ...


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Maxs Mom said:


> Then there was the rottie! OMG this dog looked like a HIPPO!!! Passerbys would gasp at the size of this dog, and the owner did not see a problem. She would by it POUNDS of meat at the butcher every day. She would not listen when people told her she was killing her dog. It was REALLY sad and really disgusting. She should have had her dog removed for cruelty. She was killing it literally with kindness.
> 
> Ann


I saw that show. She got downright nasty when the groomer told her the dog was obese and she was killing the dog. It seems like that dog weighed something like 200 lbs.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

My neighbors had a dachsund, and it was so fat it's belly hit the ground. So sad. They said it was the acorns he ate in the backyard...


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## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

NuttinButGoldens said:


> I think these guys left the standards behind at around 4 months...


 
2 months off 6 months over 70lbs

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/showthread.php?t=20906

measured length is 30 inchs on Triton, just came back from 8 km walk/run, tommorrow going to let them follow in Kayak back and forth across big pond, walk one day swim next to prevent injuries

Weight is exact at vet because last time I did it using my scale at home, was same as there


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## Jake Slack (May 1, 2010)

My Jake is 61.8 lbs and the vet feels that he should be between 70 - 75 to be at a decent weight. 130lbs and 140lbs is the size of a newfie, good lord.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Tucker was huge at almost 90 pounds. He lost the weight and has kept it off for nearly 6 years. He goes up and down every now and then, but if you see his photo before his weight loss you will see what obese was/is. He is shorter than your two though.I'll have to go find his thread.


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## momtoMax (Apr 21, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> I am so sorry for those of you who have goldens out of standard (tall). It is heartbreaking as they get older and you have to watch them struggle in pain to get up off the floor, walk, or run. I know. I have one.
> Just like people who are 8 feet tall, the out of standard dogs are much more prone to structural problems, especially as they age. It's very very sad when your best buddy has a lousy quality of life because of his size.
> My Toby is 26 inches tall, and I keep him at 80 pounds. Yes, he's SKINNY at that weight. Most people (but not my vet) think he's MUCH too thin. They ask if I feed the dog. But my vet believes that's a main reason a big dog like Toby is still around at 12 years, 3 months old. I've kept him thin and fit his whole life to keep down the stress on his bones, joints, and muscles.
> My Tiny, who is 1 year older and is to standard, doesn't have nearly the structural issues and pains my poor Toby has.
> I feel so bad for all of you with big dogs, and I hope you won't suffer the heartbreak I am suffering watching Toby struggle to get up off the tile floor these days.


 
Save your pity for someone else - gee. I mean, my boy is out of standard but issues moving? pain? less structurally secure? Not at all. Max is greased lightning, let me tell you and his dad at 100 pounds and 7 years was a speedy healthy bugger as well. I'm sorry that your Toby is not doing so well but I can't help but to be a bit put off that someone is feeling sorry for my dog just cause he's out of standard.


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## C&B's Grizzly (Nov 20, 2007)

I don't think the boys look obese like other dogs that I have seen at the dog park. Grizzly went to the vet today and he weighs 98.3lbs. The vet said he needs to get down to 85lbs, ideally 75lbs. I told her that he's on 1 1/2 cup of food twice a day and it's weight management food. We also walk 3 miles every day and he's a very active dog. She suggested that his thyroid might be messed up. 

His dad was 120lbs and didn't look fat at all. Grizzly's the same way...


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

This is what a 88 to 90 pound dog looks like. As I mentioned, he's much shorter than your dog. He now weighs about 73 pounds. I've included his after photo.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Your dog is one year old!! Of course you aren't seeing the issues moving, the pain, etc. YET. I very sincerely hope that in 11 years you will still be able to say that I was wrong.
My boy is 12. It's heartbreaking to see. I hope no one else has to watch their best buddy suffer like I'm watching mine.






momtoMax said:


> Save your pity for someone else - gee. I mean, my boy is out of standard but issues moving? pain? less structurally secure? Not at all. Max is greased lightning, let me tell you and his dad at 100 pounds and 7 years was a speedy healthy bugger as well. I'm sorry that your Toby is not doing so well but I can't help but to be a bit put off that someone is feeling sorry for my dog just cause he's out of standard.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Shadow is out of standard, has had two hip surgeries, but I notice how he sits and what his shoulders look like as he gets up. He's a trooper, but he is not as, I'll use the word sturdy or substantial, as Tucker. I can clearly see the difference between a well-bred Golden and my poor Shadow. I love him to pieces though. He still moves like the wind and never stops moving, but I totally can related to what you are seeing.


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## my4goldens (Jan 21, 2009)

My old guy is 11. Has to be at least 27 inches tall. He is a byb golden very much out of standard. I have kept his weight between 85 and 88 pounds all these years. Any more weight on his poorly structured frame would have crippled him. Now that he is starting to show some pretty significant weakness in his rear end I am so glad I kept him lean. With no muscle tone in his rear, if he had any excess weight he certainly wouldn't be moving as well as he is.


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## momtoMax (Apr 21, 2009)

I realize HfD that you are sad about your golden and I feel sad about that too. Max's dad is 7 and moves like he's 3. I find it hard to believe that every golden out of standard has terrible issues with moving and being arthritic when they are 12 and every golden within standard has not issues with moving and being arthritic. My Willow moves a lot slower getting up than she used to - I doubt that has anything to do with her structure and everything to do with her high age. I'm sorry your doggy is living with pain but again, I don't think you should feel sorry for every out of standard doomed golden because I've met old out of standard dogs that get by well for their age and just as well as the smaller ones at the same age.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

My Toby didn't have any problems until he turned 10. Donna's Rusty didn't have any until he turned 11.
I mean it very, very sincerely when I say I hope that you are right, and that Max never has to suffer from structural issues.
In my experience of boarding hundreds and hundreds of dogs, it has been the *rule* that the bigger they are, the more problems they have. There are exceptions to every rule, and I, again very sincerely, hope that Max is one of the exceptions.




momtoMax said:


> I realize HfD that you are sad about your golden and I feel sad about that too. Max's dad is 7 and moves like he's 3. I find it hard to believe that every golden out of standard has terrible issues with moving and being arthritic when they are 12 and every golden within standard has not issues with moving and being arthritic. My Willow moves a lot slower getting up than she used to - I doubt that has anything to do with her structure and everything to do with her high age. I'm sorry your doggy is living with pain but again, I don't think you should feel sorry for every out of standard doomed golden because I've met old out of standard dogs that get by well for their age and just as well as the smaller ones at the same age.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

hotel4dogs said:


> Your dog is one year old!! Of course you aren't seeing the issues moving, the pain, etc. YET. I very sincerely hope that in 11 years you will still be able to say that I was wrong.
> My boy is 12. It's heartbreaking to see. I hope no one else has to watch their best buddy suffer like I'm watching mine.


I will put it this way - I pity the _dog _who suffers because of the ignorance of purposely breeding a dog that is out of standard.

Many dogs, and Goldens in particular, are stoic and do not complain even when they are in pain.


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## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

I will post pictures after every week on how much he loses

Pointgold if a dog is taller than standard and has the muscle for tall frame wouldn't he be alright than a skinny tall one, my guys are from farm dogs


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

The added weight puts a lot of stress and strain on their joints. Most likely their hearts, too. I know when Tucker lost his weight, I was told we possibly added at least 5 years to his lifespan. Tucker came to us overweight at almost a year old.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Don't know if it's been mentioned, so sorry if it's a repeat. But it's also advised that keeping a dog trim is one of the best prophylactics against cancer.


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## Sneeks (Mar 8, 2010)

I got Frisco when he was 5 and he was about 90lbs. When he passed away at 13, he weighed 118lbs. Long life for an obese dog. He still played ball, he had a larger frame so I don't think the weight bothered him. 

here he is at 110lbs.







http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._371169164133_581719133_4787140_4430741_n.jpg


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## Jax's Mom (Oct 16, 2009)

From what I see in the pics, your dogs don't look obese at all. In fact, Triton looks quite dapper. If they are in fact so tall, wouldnt it then be fitting for them to weigh more? With that being said, then you arent affecting his health adversely. Only thing is that they dont fit in to "conformity". If you aren't showing them, then who cares...Seems like you have 2 beautiful LARGE dogs there! (I loved the pic of Triton right behind the Matiff....I think that really shows his size)


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

hotel4dogs said:


> I am so sorry for those of you who have goldens out of standard (tall). It is heartbreaking as they get older and you have to watch them struggle in pain to get up off the floor, walk, or run. I know. I have one.
> Just like people who are 8 feet tall, the out of standard dogs are much more prone to structural problems, especially as they age. It's very very sad when your best buddy has a lousy quality of life because of his size.
> My Toby is 26 inches tall, and I keep him at 80 pounds. Yes, he's SKINNY at that weight. Most people (but not my vet) think he's MUCH too thin. They ask if I feed the dog. But my vet believes that's a main reason a big dog like Toby is still around at 12 years, 3 months old. I've kept him thin and fit his whole life to keep down the stress on his bones, joints, and muscles.
> My Tiny, who is 1 year older and is to standard, doesn't have nearly the structural issues and pains my poor Toby has.
> I feel so bad for all of you with big dogs, and I hope you won't suffer the heartbreak I am suffering watching Toby struggle to get up off the tile floor these days.


That is why giant breed life spans are so much shorter. My Great Pyrenees lived to be 13, he was 120 at his heaviest, but most of his life he was under 110. If I remember correctly he was around 30 inches at the shoulders. My vet was always teaching me how to feel his ribs. I got a lot more years out him, than most. No arthritus until probably the last 2 years, mostly taken care of with a buffered aspirin. My vet attributed that to the high quality food I gave him and me keeping his weight down.


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## NuttinButGoldens (Jan 10, 2009)

Same with my Milo. He's a BYB guy, and has to be a good 3 inches taller than Gilmour. At 8 months he weighed 75 pounds, but 10 of that he didn't need. We've been working on that.

Now, at just over 13 months or so, he's looking better every day but he is getting bigger.

He is the big goofy hoppy Golden that we all know and love though 



my4goldens said:


> My old guy is 11. Has to be at least 27 inches tall. He is a byb golden very much out of standard. I have kept his weight between 85 and 88 pounds all these years. Any more weight on his poorly structured frame would have crippled him. Now that he is starting to show some pretty significant weakness in his rear end I am so glad I kept him lean. With no muscle tone in his rear, if he had any excess weight he certainly wouldn't be moving as well as he is.


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## NuttinButGoldens (Jan 10, 2009)

You are right. They aren't. All of my Males, until Gilmour, have been way out of spec at 90 to 100 pounds and not a one of them had any joint, hip or bone issues.

I will say I do think it slows them down a bit when they get older, but no outright failure of any joints or hips.

But I also know it happens, and for this reason Milo will always concern me a bit.



momtoMax said:


> I realize HfD that you are sad about your golden and I feel sad about that too. Max's dad is 7 and moves like he's 3. I find it hard to believe that every golden out of standard has terrible issues with moving and being arthritic when they are 12 and every golden within standard has not issues with moving and being arthritic. My Willow moves a lot slower getting up than she used to - I doubt that has anything to do with her structure and everything to do with her high age. I'm sorry your doggy is living with pain but again, I don't think you should feel sorry for every out of standard doomed golden because I've met old out of standard dogs that get by well for their age and just as well as the smaller ones at the same age.


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## C's Mom (Dec 7, 2009)

Kimm said:


> This is what a 88 to 90 pound dog looks like. As I mentioned, he's much shorter than your dog. He now weighs about 73 pounds. I've included his after photo.


 
Wow Kim, it doesn't even look like the same dog. Both cute but must admit that your doggie looks much healthier in the second pic. Good job in helping him to lose the weight.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Jax's Mom said:


> From what I see in the pics, your dogs don't look obese at all. In fact, Triton looks quite dapper. If they are in fact so tall, wouldnt it then be fitting for them to weigh more? With that being said, then you arent affecting his health adversely. Only thing is that they dont fit in to "conformity". If you aren't showing them, then who cares...Seems like you have 2 beautiful LARGE dogs there! (I loved the pic of Triton right behind the Matiff....I think that really shows his size)


 
Thank God _someone _cares and works diligently and responsibly toward breeding correct, sound, healthy Goldens, or any other breed for that matter. The standards which so many here don't care at all about are what makes and keeps a breed what it is. It's not just about showing them. Goldens are NOT a "large" or "giant" breed, and over sized dogs do in fact have far more health issues than dogs who "fit in to conformity". It is a known, proven fact. And again, because our Goldens rarely complain, many of them are in fact in pain and we don't know it, and additionally, it is also more likely that people who don't care about "conformity" are also less inclined to actually do what is necessary to know if there _are _problems, such as hip or elbow or patella problems. And dogs can have these issues and be asymptomatic for some time. MANY dogs have cardiac issues which go undiagnosed until the dog literally keels over dead. And even then, some are not, because the owners choose not to necropsy.

I care. Very, very much.


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## Jax's Mom (Oct 16, 2009)

I find it insulting that you state people who don't care about conformity are less inclined to do what's necessary...blah blah. You are making generalized statements, and in the "human" world, it would be considered a form of being racist. 

Also...who says people don't "care" about conformity if they end up with an "unconformed" dog. My oldest Jax is a rescue....and he is out of conformity. So what can I do about that. Doesnt mean he will definitely have a life of pain and agony. And if he does...just like even a smaller than average dog could...I will deal with that and make sure my baby is well taken care of. 

If someone's dog is out of conformity, I doubt people coming on here and talking about how sad and what a death/pain sentence it is...makes it any better. I understand if a dog is obese and the human is over feeding it...obviously being a form of neglect/abuse, but if the dog is average in size (weight) for his stature and obviously looks NOT severly overweight, AND the poster states that they are doing something about losing the few extra lbs, why are so many talking about the "poor dog". I just dont think it applys to this poster, and I think its alittle harsh and over-generalized.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Jax's Mom said:


> I find it insulting that you state people who don't care about conformity are less inclined to do what's necessary...blah blah. You are making generalized statements, and in the "human" world, it would be considered a form of being racist.
> 
> Also...who says people don't "care" about conformity if they end up with an "unconformed" dog. My oldest Jax is a rescue....and he is out of conformity. So what can I do about that. Doesnt mean he will definitely have a life of pain and agony. And if he does...just like even a smaller than average dog could...I will deal with that and make sure my baby is well taken care of.
> 
> If someone's dog is out of conformity, I doubt people coming on here and talking about how sad and what a death/pain sentence it is...makes it any better. I understand if a dog is obese and the human is over feeding it...obviously being a form of neglect/abuse, but if the dog is average in size (weight) for his stature and obviously looks NOT severly overweight, AND the poster states that they are doing something about losing the few extra lbs, why are so many talking about the "poor dog". I just dont think it applys to this poster, and I think its alittle harsh and over-generalized.


 
I'm sorry that you are insulted, but it is true. People who purchase dogs for pets, not caring about "conformity", do not as a rule do clearances. None of this is to suggest that all these people do not care about treating or properly caring for a dog when it _does_ have problems - some will have hip/elbow/patella rads done only when there are problems. Many people mistakenly believe that 'bigger is better". Of course, being "out of conformity" doesn't mean a dog will _"definitely_" suffer pain and illness, but there is a _much_ increased incidence of it being so. In part, because it is rare for people who make such breedings to have a history of health clearances - it all goes hand in hand.

The OP's dogs, as I have stated, do not look morbidly obese, which they would if they in fact weighed as much as claimed. They ARE large, but at the weights claimed would have to be much larger than even the photos suggest to weigh that much while still looking "dapper". 
It is a fact that oversized dogs, including Giant breeds, in general have shorter life spans and have more health/structure issues.

I believe that the standards are extremely important, and have no respect for those who purposefully and knowingly disregard them, just as those who do not do clearances.

I stand by my statement.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

We aren't even talking a little out of breed standard with these two dogs. If their weights are being correctly reported, then they are DOUBLE the breed standard. That's just as bad as the people who breed "teacup" dogs. There is a breed standard for a reason. It's not acceptable to intentionally breed dogs out of standard, especially that FAR outside of the breed standard.

By the way, both of my goldens are outside of the breed standard. I don't take offense when I read the post pointing out that goldens have a standard and the reason for it. Both of my dogs are rescues that came from shelters, one had two heart defects and the other had hypothyroidism by age 2 and has hip displaysia. Do I love my dogs? Absolutely, I adore them! Should the BYBs who bred them have bred their litters? Absolutely not!


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

If educating people to the problems that can occur when dogs are breed too large, or without clearances, makes even one person not make such a breeding, then yes - talking about the pain and suffering _does _make it better.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

If we do not educate people to the risks of obtaining out of standard dogs, or dogs with no clearances, we allow people who breed them with no thought for the end result to continue to do so.
I stand by my statements as well. I have an out of standard dog. I have learned my lesson the hard way. I hope others can learn from my mistakes.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

our posts crossed in cyberspace, and we were saying the same thing. Only difference is you said it better.




Pointgold said:


> If educating people to the problems that can occur when dogs are breed too large, or without clearances, makes even one person not make such a breeding, then yes - talking about the pain and suffering _does _make it better.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

I want to make it clear that I am in no way suggesting that "not caring about conformity" equates to not loving the dog. My concerns are when people purposely make breedings of over/undersized dogs, and for those who specifically _want _such dogs (thereby "justifying" their creation). People need to know and understand the ramifications of doing so.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

C's Mom said:


> Wow Kim, it doesn't even look like the same dog. Both cute but must admit that your doggie looks much healthier in the second pic. Good job in helping him to lose the weight.


Thank you...I swear he looked like he had no head. He was all body.

To the OP, please be sure you find out what a good weight is for your dogs and don't let them lose too much weight too quickly. They really do not look as large as my Tucker did. Hopefully they will do fine and with a bit of weight loss if it is necessary, live long healthy and happy lives.


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## Jax's Mom (Oct 16, 2009)

While I agree that it is wrong to purposefully breed the dogs too big, I am speaking in defense to those that end up with a larger than normal dog through no fault of their own. I don't pretend to know much at all about breeding, as I am not a breeder nor ever intend to be one. I don't think the OP bred these dogs herself, and if I remember correctly, the parents were not as large. If I am wrong...then I stand corrected. (Honestly I don't want to skim through this already too long thread). 

There is always a way to make your point about out of standard breeding without making poeple feel like they are less than loving dog parents. Education is important, whether it be about out of standard breeding as well as clearances. I'm sure you wouldn't be surprised how many people learn about theses things after its already too late. Also....when recueing a dog....conformity and clearances really go out the window. 

I understand your point and am not disagreeing...however, if in fact you are trying to educate, presentation is as important as content....ask any teacher.


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## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> I'm sorry that you are insulted, but it is true. People who purchase dogs for pets, not caring about "conformity", do not as a rule do clearances. None of this is to suggest that all these people do not care about treating or properly caring for a dog when it _does_ have problems - some will have hip/elbow/patella rads done only when there are problems. Many people mistakenly believe that 'bigger is better". Of course, being "out of conformity" doesn't mean a dog will _"definitely_" suffer pain and illness, but there is a _much_ increased incidence of it being so. In part, because it is rare for people who make such breedings to have a history of health clearances - it all goes hand in hand.
> 
> The OP's dogs, as I have stated, do not look morbidly obese, which they would if they in fact weighed as much as claimed. They ARE large, but at the weights claimed would have to be much larger than even the photos suggest to weigh that much while still looking "dapper".
> It is a fact that oversized dogs, including Giant breeds, in general have shorter life spans and have more health/structure issues.
> ...


Okay just went to another vet, used there scale Logan is 64.2, Triton 58.4kgs Triton lost 3lbs and Logan gained 1lb after two 8 km run/walks

Pointgold all the scales in Burlington Ontario vets and home scales must be wrong acording to you, heres another picture which you can see thickness

when i go to vet and get statement that shows body weight, that will be wrong to right


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

2Retrievers222 said:


> Okay just went to another vet, used there scale Logan is 64.2, Triton 58.4kgs Triton lost 3lbs and Logan gained 1lb after two 8 km run/walks
> 
> Pointgold all the scales in Burlington Ontario vets and home scales must be wrong acording to you, heres another picture which you can see thickness
> 
> when i go to vet and get statement that shows body weight, that will be wrong to right


 
I do not disagree that they are large dogs. They are.I am simply not convinced that they are _that _big. Frankly, the photos do not show dogs that aredouble the size of normal Goldens.


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## America (May 6, 2010)

Raw diets do keep dogs slim! But, I also keep my dogs intact as well. At 24 inches Tucker is 80 lbs, which the vet says is ideal. 140 lbs is almost double what a Golden Retriever should be! I hope that he gets the weight off soon, for his health.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Jax's Mom said:


> While I agree that it is wrong to purposefully breed the dogs too big, I am speaking in defense to those that end up with a larger than normal dog through no fault of their own. I don't pretend to know much at all about breeding, as I am not a breeder nor ever intend to be one. I don't think the OP bred these dogs herself, and if I remember correctly, the parents were not as large. If I am wrong...then I stand corrected. (Honestly I don't want to skim through this already too long thread).
> 
> There is always a way to make your point about out of standard breeding without making poeple feel like they are less than loving dog parents. Education is important, whether it be about out of standard breeding as well as clearances. I'm sure you wouldn't be surprised how many people learn about theses things after its already too late. Also....when recueing a dog....conformity and clearances really go out the window.
> 
> I understand your point and am not disagreeing...however, if in fact you are trying to educate, presentation is as important as content....ask any teacher.


I do not believe that I have said anything that should make anyone feel that they are less than loving dog owners. My concern as I have stated, is those who intentionally breed out of standard, and uncleared dogs, and for those who think that is fine and want dogs like that.


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## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

esSJay said:


> On the right side of the background you can see Molson standing next to one of Richard's boys... is that Triton?
> 
> View attachment 75542


you must of missed the picture of molson (normal size) and Triton (double size) in upper right hand corner,


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## kaysy (Jan 9, 2010)

IMHO they look great. Didn't do the measurement thing but can't believe they weigh that much!


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## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> I do not believe that I have said anything that should make anyone feel that they are less than loving dog owners. My concern as I have stated, is those who intentionally breed out of standard, and uncleared dogs, and for those who think that is fine and want dogs like that.


 
you are basically calling me a liar, no thats not offending someone


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## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

To Mods

Think you should close thread


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## Phillyfisher (Jan 9, 2008)

I too am surprised about how big your dogs really are, but have no reason to doubt you. I am sure if I saw them in person, I would be a believer. It is so hard to tell from a photo especially if there is no frame of reference. Even taking the photo while standing, looking down at the dog will tend to shorten their appearance. The pictures with the other dogs help, but unless they are side by side, absolutely still, in the same plane, it still is hard to tell. Good luck to you getting their weight down to an appropriate level. I am sure they will have the longest and healthiest lives possible, simply because you care enough about them to keep them at their ideal weight.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

I was just looking at Male Swiss Mt. Dogs. They can be 28 inches and 140 pounds and they looked pretty darn good. If your dog is that tall, then it's very possible he weighs 140 pounds from the photos I looked at on this sites.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Kimm said:


> I was just looking at Male Swiss Mt. Dogs. They can be 28 inches and 140 pounds and they looked pretty darn good. If your dog is that tall, then it's very possible he weighs 140 pounds from the photos I looked at on this sites.


True, but that breed has, on average, a 2 year lower life expectancy than a Golden. Bernese, which are similarly built, live 3-4 years less on average than Goldens (the Bernese breed is afflicted by several severe health problems).


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

tippykayak said:


> True, but that breed has, on average, a 2 year lower life expectancy than a Golden. Bernese, which are similarly built, live 3-4 years less on average than Goldens (the Bernese breed is afflicted by several severe health problems).


My point is these Goldens, if that tall, may just weigh exactly what the OP stated.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Kimm said:


> My point is these Goldens, if that tall, may just weigh exactly what the OP stated.


Oh, OK. I thought you were saying that they could be that big and not have health issues.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

2Retrievers222 said:


> you must of missed the picture of molson (normal size) and Triton (double size) in upper right hand corner,


No, I didn't.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Kimm said:


> I was just looking at Male Swiss Mt. Dogs. They can be 28 inches and 140 pounds and they looked pretty darn good. If your dog is that tall, then it's very possible he weighs 140 pounds from the photos I looked at on this sites.


 
Improbable, though. They are built differently and for entirely different purposes = a 130 pound Swiss Mt Dog is heavily muscled and in "hard working condition". They are draft and drover dogs. A 28" Swissie weighing 140 would likely be overweight by 5-10 pounds, actually. 130-135 is considered the higher end of size. And even well bred Swissies are prone to HD, epilepsy, bloat, and other digestive disorders.


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## Jax's Mom (Oct 16, 2009)

Isnt that a similar list as well bred Goldens? Honestly...this is like a witch hunt...looking for a reason to find these poor dogs ill. Its sickening. Why cant we just say....gee....Glad to hear you re trying to get your dogs at a healthy weight. Wish you luck on that. AGAIN....I am not looking to say that non-conformed dogs should be bred....but these are living, breathing doggies...and it is sad that some are looking to place them on the sick list prematurely. Do we really care if the dogs are or arent the stated weight??? Besides going to this house and weighing them yourself on your own scale...there is nothing you can do to prove or dis-prove.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

I'm done...as I've mentioned a few times, I wish you well with the weight loss. I've been there with my guy.


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## momtoMax (Apr 21, 2009)

I agree with a lot of Jax's moms positions. Triton and Logan are super big and heavy for a golden - for sure. Saint bernards live shorter lives than pugs. However, that does not equate to me that my Max - who falls under this blanket post - is doomed to face an old age of terrible pain. I sadly realize that a 45 pound golden would likely have a longer life than my 90 pound boy. That is reality but saying that he will certainly be in constant pain as an old man is over the top. He may have more arthritis due to his size or because he's built big but well, he may not. I'm not going to come away from this thread thinking or worrying that my boys future is so hopeless and terrible and how terrible of me for putting him through that - sorry. And honestly, that is the message a few posters here want us to get.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

A. I've not ever said that EVERY "out of conformity" dog is going to suffer or die young. I've said that it is well known that the chances of it are greatly increased. Anyone in the breed for as many years as most of the breeders here have seen it, and most of us have "been there done that" ourselves, and learned from it. It is important that people looking for dogs know this, and for those with oversized dogs are aware of the problems that can arise so they can be proactive, and NOT have to suffer the heartbreak. NO one wants any dog or person to go through that. I can't prove or disprove that the OP's dogs are or are not as big as being claimed. It's the internet. It could be anything. I base my inclination not to believe on many things, not the least being a many, many years long involvement in the breed on many levels. Remember, please, that my comments were in reply to the "if you aren't showing who cares" comment about oversized dogs.


B. There is no "Witch Hunt". It is a discussion of the facts when it comes to breeding oversized dogs and ignoring the standard and basic health clearances. Making excuses for the intentional breeding of such dogs and the results doesn't teach anyone anything.

C. Keeping your head in the sand doesn't make it go away.


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## Enzos_Mom (Apr 8, 2010)

I think they're just saying that if you wanted to have this discussion about breeding oversized dogs, that you might have been better off starting a whole new thread with it so that it didn't seem like it was aimed at this guy's dogs. My guess is that if one of the dogs' parents had yellow lab in them, he didn't go to a breeder that was trying to breed oversized Goldens. Most people that breed dogs want to make it worth their while money-wise and I can't see anybody breeding a Golden/Lab mix and a Golden and expecting a huge profit. If they were breeding for these purposes, it would either be a purebred or a designer "breed". It sounds like he was just looking for a companion. I'm sure these people aren't getting their dogs, hoping for an oversized one. They definitely didn't "make excuses for the intentional breeding of such dogs". They simply said that if the dogs already existed, why shouldn't the guy have them? I agree that it's a bad idea to intentionally breed oversized dogs on purpose, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. By the time the dogs were out of conformity, I'm sure they were already a part of his family. Should he have just gotten rid of them because it could cause him heartbreak later? That's the only way that he could've really been proactive about it, as you said he should. It's not like he could've made the dogs have a smaller stature.


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## Jax's Mom (Oct 16, 2009)

no one ever spoke of intentional breeding for larger golden pups or ignoring clearances but you. This post was not related to breeding or clearances....it was about a dog owner trying to get some weight off her golden. You have made your point loud and clear...many times. We get it.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Enzos_Mom said:


> I think they're just saying that if you wanted to have this discussion about breeding oversized dogs, that you might have been better off starting a whole new thread with it so that it didn't seem like it was aimed at this guy's dogs. My guess is that if one of the dogs' parents had yellow lab in them, he didn't go to a breeder that was trying to breed oversized Goldens. Most people that breed dogs want to make it worth their while money-wise and I can't see anybody breeding a Golden/Lab mix and a Golden and expecting a huge profit. If they were breeding for these purposes, it would either be a purebred or a designer "breed". It sounds like he was just looking for a companion. I'm sure these people aren't getting their dogs, hoping for an oversized one. They definitely didn't "make excuses for the intentional breeding of such dogs". They simply said that if the dogs already existed, why shouldn't the guy have them? I agree that it's a bad idea to intentionally breed oversized dogs on purpose, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. By the time the dogs were out of conformity, I'm sure they were already a part of his family. Should he have just gotten rid of them because it could cause him heartbreak later? That's the only way that he could've really been proactive about it, as you said he should. It's not like he could've made the dogs have a smaller stature.


:doh: I have never suggested that ANYone "just get rid of their dog" or anything even remotely close. Again, I was responding to the "WHO CARES if you aren't showing" comment. Which, as a breeder and a person committed to maintaining and protecting the breed, is something that I take to heart and addressed. My comments were not even strictly limited to the OP's dogs - I've been clear when I have referred to them. I don't know where Labs come into this... 

Gads.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Jax's Mom said:


> no one ever spoke of intentional breeding for larger golden pups or ignoring clearances but you. This post was not related to breeding or clearances....it was about a dog owner trying to get some weight off her golden. You have made your point loud and clear...many times. We get it.


 
Apparently not, since what I've said has been twisted and turned into things that are clearly NOT what I've said. 

I was responding to YOUR comment about not caring if they were not to be shown. It does all relate to what I've said. Threads evolve...


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

> The standards which so many here don't care at all about are what makes and keeps a breed what it is.


That doesn't sound like a positive opinion of so many of us here.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Jo Ellen said:


> That doesn't sound like a positive opinion of so many of us here.


 
It has nothing to do with opinions of anyone. The standard is important to the breed, and many people here (and elsewhere) do not care about it. They've said so. It's just a fact.


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## Enzos_Mom (Apr 8, 2010)

You said that if someone had an oversized dog, they should be proactive about it to avoid heartbreak. If a dog has a large stature, there's no way to make it any smaller so you can't really be proactive about it. My point was that the only way that he could avoid the heartbreak like you said those who find themselves with oversized dogs should do would be to get rid of it before it got to the point that it being oversized caused problems. I mentioned labs because he said that the parents of one of his dogs was part lab, which means that this was not a purebred. If people are really trying to breed puppies, they usually choose purebreds or designer breeds. I was trying to get across that this was probably an accidental litter, in which case nobody was trying to breed oversized dogs specifically, which is what you have said you have a problem with (and I agree). The person who said "who cares if you aren't showing" was referring to his dogs specifically, which made your comments come off as totally off base and they appeared to be directed at him. Her point was that if HIS dogs are larger than normal but at a healthy weight, then they're larger than normal and that's okay, he just wouldn't be able to show them. It's not like he can do anything to change it.


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## Jax's Mom (Oct 16, 2009)

re-read what I wrote. *I never mentioned not caring as long as dogs werent going to be shown.* I know NOTHING about that stuff...my dogs are purely for sharing companionship. You are the one who has twisted and turned this thread into something different. Clearly you feel passionate about this topic, but i think Enzo's Mom had a good point. You can always start another thread. I merely felt badly that the OP was mentioning weight loss in her pet and you turned it into a thread inferring purposeful large breeding and breeding without clearances. NO ONE EVER SAID SHE OR ANYONE ELSE DID THAT or supports that. As a matter of fact, I specifically told you I agreed with being AGAINST THAT. Every thread is not a forum to discuss your passions in such a way that makes it accusatory. JMHO

and now I am done...this is making my visit to this forum uncomfortable.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Enzos_Mom said:


> You said that if someone had an oversized dog, they should be proactive about it to avoid heartbreak. If a dog has a large stature, there's no way to make it any smaller so you can't really be proactive about it. My point was that the only way that he could avoid the heartbreak like you said those who find themselves with oversized dogs should do would be to get rid of it before it got to the point that it being oversized caused problems. I mentioned labs because he said that the parents of one of his dogs was part lab, which means that this was not a purebred. If people are really trying to breed puppies, they usually choose purebreds or designer breeds. I was trying to get across that this was probably an accidental litter, in which case nobody was trying to breed oversized dogs specifically, which is what you have said you have a problem with (and I agree). The person who said "who cares if you aren't showing" was referring to his dogs specifically, which made your comments come off as totally off base and they appeared to be directed at him. Her point was that if HIS dogs are larger than normal but at a healthy weight, then they're larger than normal and that's okay, he just wouldn't be able to show them. It's not like he can do anything to change it.


 
Not at all... being proactive means keeping the dog at good weight (which it would appear is being attempted). Avoidin excessive, concussive exercise. Adding a quality supplement such as glucosamine/chrondroitin. Not feeding table foods with high sodium content (bad for the heart) etc etc. I never, nor would I ever, suggest getting rid of the dog - that is ridiculous.
The "who cares if you aren't showing" can be found repeatedly in posts on this forum - I've read them several times, from different members, over the years that I have been here. This discussion is not new, and will be one that comes up over and over again.
Oversized dogs, even at a good weight, ARE more prone to health issues. This is fact. Hence, my saying that one should be proactive in caring for them to minimize, if not prevent, any of them.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Jax's Mom said:


> re-read what I wrote. *I never mentioned not caring as long as dogs werent going to be shown.* I know NOTHING about that stuff...my dogs are purely for sharing companionship. You are the one who has twisted and turned this thread into something different. Clearly you feel passionate about this topic, but i think Enzo's Mom had a good point. You can always start another thread. I merely felt badly that the OP was mentioning weight loss in her pet and you turned it into a thread inferring purposeful large breeding and breeding without clearances. NO ONE EVER SAID SHE OR ANYONE ELSE DID THAT or supports that. As a matter of fact, I specifically told you I agreed with being AGAINST THAT. Every thread is not a forum to discuss your passions in such a way that makes it accusatory. JMHO
> 
> and now I am done...this is making my visit to this forum uncomfortable.


 
I have read and reread your post, and in fact went back again to make sure that I wasn't referencing another member. You wrote:
"Only thing is that they dont fit in to "conformity". If you aren't showing them, then who cares..." That is what I was replying to. 

I was not "accusing" anyone here of such breeding practices. I do have a right to post my opinion, and yes, I am passionate about breeding and will never apologize for being so.


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## Enzos_Mom (Apr 8, 2010)

He's obviously doing all he can for the dog's health already. There was no need to tell him to be proactive about it - he already is! And the "who cares if you aren't showing" may be found repeatedly on the forum, but not necessarily in the same context that this one was used. It was very clear that she didn't mean it for all dogs, just for his. It may have been said by other members, but taking her post out of context because of what you've heard from other members isn't fair. People should be proactive in caring for their pets to minimize health issues whether the dog is oversized or not. The fact that the dogs are oversized is a moot point here, as these dogs are being properly cared for and these are the dogs that were referred to by Jax's Mom.


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## Enzos_Mom (Apr 8, 2010)

You have taken what she said out of context. You left off the part at the beginning, in which she clearly addresses that it's okay for them to be out of conformation _as long as he's not affecting the dogs health adversely_. 


"From what I see in the pics, your dogs don't look obese at all. In fact, Triton looks quite dapper. If they are in fact so tall, wouldnt it then be fitting for them to weigh more? With that being said, then you arent affecting his health adversely."


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

I stand by everything I have said. Have said it before, and will say it again, I'm sure.
My concern is for the dogs; always has been and always will be. I'm not running for Homecoming Queen.


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## Enzos_Mom (Apr 8, 2010)

I understand that your concern is for the dogs. Mine is, too. I also agree with most of what you said. My point is just that maybe this wasn't the thread to start this discussion in. It could've started a great discussion in a thread of it's own. However, the way you went about it just made people defensive because it comes across as you attacking them and their pets.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

I was not attacking anyone. And I think it's a stretch for anyone to think that I have. I don't sugar coat things, but I certainly wasn't "attacking" anyone. I'm pretty okay knowing that I won't even win a place on the Homecoming Queen's court...


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## Enzos_Mom (Apr 8, 2010)

I'm not sure where this whole thing with the Homecoming Queen comes in, but whatever. All I'm saying is that your posts came across as you putting down people and their dogs. There wasn't really any reason for you to make those comments. They came out of left field. That's just my opinion. I guess we'll just continue to disagree. No need to keep arguing about it.


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## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

Kimm said:


> I'm done...as I've mentioned a few times, I wish you well with the weight loss. I've been there with my guy.


 
Thank You

I,ll keep progress posted


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## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> You seem very proud of their size, but I will never be convinced that those dogs weigh that much. Even if your height measurements were correct they would be much much fatter than your photos show. Sorry. A friend of ours has a Labrador who is truly over a hundred pounds and he is _far_ larger than either of your two.


 
A pound of fat is bigger than a pound of muscle, that is why you are mixed up


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

2Retrievers222 said:


> A pound of fat is bigger than a pound of muscle, that is why you are mixed up


If your vet is saying that one of your dogs needs to lose weight, then your theory doesn't really work.

I have to agree, you do seem proud of your dogs' sizes. If that's what floats your boat, so be it. I hope they continue to be as healthy as they are now. They are very sweet looking.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

2Retrievers222 said:


> A pound of fat is bigger than a pound of muscle, that is why you are mixed up


 I am well aware of that. I was referring to the height of our friend's dog he is much taller, and he is quite fat. He is, overall, much larger than your dogs but weighs much less. I am not mixed up at all, thank you.


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## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

exactly Fat all over , you just answered you doubt about "weight cant be right"

I said vet has not seen them since they got fixed, I said Logan needs to lose 15lbs not vet

If a dog is 1-2 inchs smaller and mostly muscle it will weigh more than fat dog, cause lb muscle is just over half the size of lb of fat

If I get statement from vet that shows there weight you still would not believe, what if I told you they are golden colour


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Hank has posted these charts several times, and they are a good gauge. I think most of the public is so used to seeing overweight dogs that it becomes almost the norm. However, it certainly isn't good for their health or longevity. 

Originally Posted by *AmbikaGR* 
_This one has the explanation of the views also. They are both from purina's website (Body Condition Chart)

*Understanding Your Dog's Body Condition*

*Too Thin*

*1* Ribs, lumbar vertebrae, pelvic bones and all bony prominences evident from a distance. No discernible body fat. Obvious loss of muscle mass.
*2* Ribs, lumbar vertebrae and pelvic bones easily visible. No palpable fat. Some evidence of other bony prominence. Minimal loss of muscle mass.
*3* Ribs easily palpated and may be visible with no palpable fat. Tops of lumbar vertebrae visible. Pelvic bones becoming prominent. Obvious waist.




















*Ideal*

*4* Ribs easily palpable, with minimal fat covering. Waist easily noted, viewed from above. Abdominal tuck evident.
*5* Ribs palpable without excess fat covering. Waist observed behind ribs when viewed from above. Abdomen tucked up when viewed.












*Too Heavy*

*6* Ribs palpable with slight excess fat covering. Waist is discernible viewed from above but is not prominent. Abdominal tuck apparent.
*7* Ribs palpable with difficulty; heavy fat cover. Noticeable fat deposits over lumbar area and base of tail. Waist absent or barely visible. Abdominal tuck may be present.
*8* Ribs not palpable under very heavy fat cover, or palpable only with significant pressure. Heavy fat deposits over lumbar area and base of tail. Waist absent. No abdominal tuck. Obvious abdominal distension may be present.
*9* Massive fat deposits over thorax, spine and base of tail. Waist and abdominal tuck absent. Fat deposits on neck and limbs. Obvious abdominal distention.
















_


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## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

After 70kms since Tuesday Logan is at same weight Triton down 4 pounds.

Logan getting thyroid check June 7

here's document from animal hospital in Burlington, only allowed to put it on letter head unless they examine him


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## CrystalG (Aug 12, 2009)

I just want to say that I applaud you for doing what you can to get your boys' weight down. I think they are both beautiful dogs and IMO they don't look obese in any way to me. It's quite obvious that you care for your dogs very much as we all care for our own

P.S. 70km since Tuesday?!?!?! HOLY!


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## momtoMax (Apr 21, 2009)

2Retrievers222 said:


> After 70kms since Tuesday Logan is at same weight Triton down 4 pounds.
> 
> Logan getting thyroid check June 7
> 
> here's document from animal hospital in Burlington, only allowed to put it on letter head unless they examine him


 
Just gotta say it's sad that you have to post this because people are calling you a liar or just hapless and unable to understand.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Keep up the good work!


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## ILoveMyGolden (Oct 19, 2006)

Just keep working to get their weight down. Everyone's opinion is going to differ, but the less they weigh, the probability will be less for problems down the road.

My family brought home a golden puppy for us just about 8 years ago -I have since moved out and posted about him many, many times, and at 7 1/2 he's had just about every health issue in the book, related to his size no doubt, and too he was BYB and they knew no better.

Bails is about 28 inches at the shoulder and hovers 100lbs. Two TPLO surgeries, bloat surgery, major skin issues, HD, Arthritis in elbows, he's not 8 and I worry every single day he's not going to live more than a couple more years.

I am bringing home a puppy in June and made every effort to make the best decision I could when getting a Golden. I know there really are no guarantees, but when every effort (from the breeder and through our research) went in to this litter and then when our guy comes home.

I do wish you the best in getting the weight down -whether the weight is muscle or fat, that is still a lot of weight to carry despite the frame size! Thankfully the weather is getting nicer (though...not this week it seems!) and they can get swimming more, good low impact cardio!


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

2Retrievers222 said:


> exactly Fat all over , you just answered you doubt about "weight cant be right"
> 
> I said vet has not seen them since they got fixed, I said Logan needs to lose 15lbs not vet
> 
> ...


 
???????????????????????????????????????

You certainly are completely misunderstanding me. It's not worth the effort to continue to try for you to.
Good luck with your dogs.


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## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> I do not believe these weights are accurate. and it means that they have gained even more since this thread:
> 
> http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/showthread.php?t=65413
> 
> ...


 
this is why I posted with document from vet, I question now if you know anything about Goldens or even have one

According to you this site should be for purebreds only, and only standard dogs If bother to read I stated there was a yellow lab way back in blood line

your quote

I have never suggested that ANYone "just get rid of their dog" or anything even remotely close. Again, I was responding to the "WHO CARES if you aren't showing" comment. Which, as a breeder and a person committed to maintaining and protecting the breed, is something that I take to heart and addressed. My comments were not even strictly limited to the OP's dogs - I've been clear when I have referred to them. I don't know where Labs come into this

Forum etiquette you take a post as it is, not to criticise or say "no way" just because your lacking knowledge

I only posted this post Because I started to increase there walks, wanted to see where weight was at,never thought that heavy

Get a Life


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## lgnutah (Feb 26, 2007)

I guess I must like the look of "solid" dogs, because I think your dogs look great.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

lgnutah said:


> I guess I must like the look of "solid" dogs, because I think your dogs look great.


Yet you don't see something wrong with Golden Retrievers who weigh 130 and 140 lbs? That is really the only point (no pun intended) in Pointgold's posts to this thread. That is double the weight of the average Golden. I'm not sure why anyone would be all up in arms about Pointgold's posts. She only is addressing how these dogs don't even come close to the standard for the breed, yet the OP seems proud of having dogs that are double the weight for the breed standard. Sorry, I deal with dogs outside of breed standards all the time in the rescue and there is nothing to brag about. The worst part is, this breeder may be still breeding and selling puppies from the sire and dam of these two dogs.


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## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

If you read pointgold post he/she is saying they dont weigh that weight, over and over, weight just came since I fixed them a year ago.

I understand pointgold he/she is just in it for the money, we have pets pointgold has livestock(golden) that why pointgold wants you to buy purebred only

once again Mods please close thread


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

Getting a little off track. Closing before it gets out of hand


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