# June Field Training



## MillionsofPeaches

So we've been focusing hard on handling. I'm new and I'm learning as much about this as Kat. Anyway, right now I have noticed that Katniss has problems with only the right overs. She is taking angle backs amazingly, it is odd, she'll take it at any angle I give her. Her straight backs are 95% on the mark too, meaning most of the time she will go straight back but sometimes she thinks she knows where to go and she'll veer off the line almost immediately. That is just fixing with attrition I know, and that is kind of the normal fix. But her right overs are crazy, she always comes towards me instead of over. In fact, if I nic her she will come even faster, leading me to believe this is what she thinks she is supposed to do. Her left overs are fine, though. 

So we are doing a lot of work on those rights but I think I must have done something in the middle that threw her off otherwise I would assume that she'd blow off other handles if she just didn't want to do it at all which she doesn't. She started out fine with overs in her beginning introductory stages so I don't know what I did to mess that up :/

I've been setting up wagon wheel type pattern blinds daily that are 100 yards out and about 70 yards apart and working on lots of drills. I have spray painted all my spots in a great field by house. my husband had been home on R&R from Afghanistan (he just left to go back)and it was thrilling for him to see how much she and I had progressed! It really made me feel good. He left last September and she wasn't doing any handling at all so it was neat for him to see all her new skills! I forget how much more she is doing now since I work with her every day. 

Anyway, we just keep plugging away and having fun bonding and learning. She really is a forgiving dog, I am so happy that she lets me off easy in that respect! Oh and she has finally picked up her speed. I think it must have been a confidence issue before because she is much more enthusiastic about her "dead birds" and this has made it funner to work with her again.


----------



## K9-Design

Alaska7133 said:


> Miss Lucy is still in heat until Wed. So we are keeping distances short and trying to make sure there are no other dogs around. Today we worked by ourselves. So we worked on walk out double blinds. Lucy loves them. Here's how we set them up. I walk Lucy off leash out about 30-50 yards, I toss a bumper in the air and say dead bird. I let her fetch it, then I set it on the ground and say dead bird. I walk another 50 yards and do the same thing with another bumper. Then we walk back to the line and I send her for each bumper as a double. She loves it. Today was deep cover on uneven ground. She had a smile on her face every time. I think she came back each time faster than she went out. Memory is a good thing. I know they aren't true blinds, but she and I have fun doing them and memory is always a good skill to work on.


Hmmm so Stacey is Lucy "hunting" for the bumpers? As in, putting her nose down and searching for them? Because if so -- you are setting her up for a really bad habit of hunting on blinds. 
I would suggest instead that you do a "swish drill" with a white bucket or stake and a pile of bumpers, and run her to it from all different angles.
You do NOT want a dog to think it is hunting on a blind. Never. I can't imagine a dog who has not been through all the yard work leading up to blinds, to truly remember one bumper 50 yards away, without hunting for it. 
Do you have Carol Cassidy's drill book? I think you'd really like it and it gives you TONS of drills like swish drill that you can do, without inadvertently teaching your dog something that you will have to un-teach later on.


----------



## K9-Design

Kristin and I drove down to Montverde (Wayne's) this morning. We are both entered in a master test next weekend in Maryland. I feel like I haven't trained at all in field.
Once we got there and set up, it promptly started raining HARD. We ran the dogs all on the hard memory bird as a single, then we had to get in the car because of the rain. We ended up leaving all the equipment in the field and driving into town for lunch. When we got back it had stopped. I wanted to do a tricky, difficult setup but build it for success. We did a double-double on the big pond. Threw a LONG double -- each mark over 130 yards. The memory bird was over a point, over a floating log, swim down parallel to another point, then up on the shore. The throw was angle in. The go bird was through a pocket of water, then up a ravine, to higher land, thrown behind a sandy, dug-out road rut. Once they came back with the go bird we turned to the right and did a hand-thrown mom-and-pop, thrown angle back into the water about 40 yards away. Pick up the mom-and-pop birds and the long memory bird across the pond. Thank god for wingers, they did the long marks and didn't act up even once today 
After that we ended up keeping the two long marks and shifted the line to where the mom-and-pop was thrown. We added a short bird off to the right (where a point jutted out from the other side of the pond, bird was only about 25 yards but fell in a muddy, cattail area. Anyways we did a straight up triple with the short bird as the walk up #1, the middle bird #2 was now a LONG swim across open water and over a point, and #3 road bird now the dog had to go through two coves of water. Set out a long blind through the AOF of the short walkup bird then WAY deep on the other side of the pond through weedy running water. I have to say the dogs did GREAT and it was very productive. I'm happy we made the effort even though we all go soaked. Of course as we were letting the dogs play and picking up equipment, it started raining again so we all go doused one last time for the road. And in such a hurry to pick up, we completely forgot my bird hanger with five nasty birds on it. Oy. Hopefully another club member will save my bird hanger!!


----------



## EvanG

MillionsofPeaches said:


> So we've been focusing hard on handling. I'm new and I'm learning as much about this as Kat. Anyway, right now I have noticed that Katniss has problems with only the right overs. She is taking angle backs amazingly, it is odd, she'll take it at any angle I give her. Her straight backs are 95% on the mark too, meaning most of the time she will go straight back but sometimes she thinks she knows where to go and she'll veer off the line almost immediately. That is just fixing with attrition I know, and that is kind of the normal fix. But her right overs are crazy, she always comes towards me instead of over. In fact, if I nic her she will come even faster, leading me to believe this is what she thinks she is supposed to do. Her left overs are fine, though.


How are you approaching the teaching of handling skills? What drills? How long have you been at it? Are you still teaching the casts, or have you begun stopping and casting? Single T and/or Double T done? Started?

EvanG


----------



## Alaska7133

Yes you are right, I missed leaving the big fabric bag out by the bumpers when I walked out. Thanks for the reminder. I do have Cassidy's book.

"Hmmm so Stacey is Lucy "hunting" for the bumpers? As in, putting her nose down and searching for them? Because if so -- you are setting her up for a really bad habit of hunting on blinds. 
I would suggest instead that you do a "swish drill" with a white bucket or stake and a pile of bumpers, and run her to it from all different angles.
You do NOT want a dog to think it is hunting on a blind. Never. I can't imagine a dog who has not been through all the yard work leading up to blinds, to truly remember one bumper 50 yards away, without hunting for it. 
Do you have Carol Cassidy's drill book? I think you'd really like it and it gives you TONS of drills like swish drill that you can do, without inadvertently teaching your dog something that you will have to un-teach later on."


----------



## MillionsofPeaches

Thanks for asking, Evan. We (me and my trainer) approached all of her casting skills in the correct order and she had done fine on the T and the double T, hence I am just noticing this right over problem since we started doing pattern blinds and cold blinds a lot more frequently now. It has been about two months that she has really started working on cold blinds but even more so this last few weeks. I don't ever stop doing drills, though. I don't know if that is bad or not.

I'm thinking this might have something to do with my body language. So I'm working on right overs in an E kind of shape and paying extreme attention to how I do the right over cast. I've also stopped her with a whistle the minute she comes towards me. and then I go to her and block her from being able to do anything but the over. Doing this a few times seemed to get her to understand what I wanted because after that she took all the right overs great with me back at the bottom of the T......until we got out on that blind and then she started coming back to me again. Ugh. So I did the same thing out there and that stopped it from happening the rest of the runs, even on the next blinds. I think she is trying hard to please me and this isn't her fault it is mine. Now I just need to figure out how to correct it and I'm hoping that over the next few weeks repetition will get her to understand. I just ordered the drill book that Anney suggested so maybe there will be something in there. I see my trainer tomorrow as its been a month, maybe he will see something that I don't, and suggest a new correction method. 




EvanG said:


> How are you approaching the teaching of handling skills? What drills? How long have you been at it? Are you still teaching the casts, or have you begun stopping and casting? Single T and/or Double T done? Started?
> 
> EvanG


----------



## EvanG

MillionsofPeaches said:


> Thanks for asking, Evan. We (me and my trainer) approached all of her casting skills in the correct order and she had done fine on the T and the double T, hence I am just noticing this right over problem since we started doing pattern blinds and cold blinds a lot more frequently now. It has been about two months that she has really started working on cold blinds but even more so this last few weeks. I don't ever stop doing drills, though. I don't know if that is bad or not.


Does your trainer have a list of things he/she wants you doing on your own? How often do you work 1:1 with this trainer?

EvanG


----------



## MillionsofPeaches

Saw my trainer yesterday and we are fixing the right overs. It seems she is focusing on my hand and I always put my hand next to me when I tweet her into a heel from a mark or a blind. So now if I put my body into over motion and say over with out my hand at the same time she will take the over. After I have already set it into motion then I bring in my arm and hand. I'm thinking she was confused thinking I want her to heel. Oh well, as long as I can fix it, right? 
Also I have been working on flat, mowed fields so yesterday the set ups all were with patches of tall cover in front or behind the marks and the blinds lined through patches of covers and up slopes. Well, she really was avoiding cover like nobody's business out there. So I had to just keep working and working to push her through the cover. I'm shocked at how a month off of cover affected her this much. But no big deal, my trainer gave me homework on how to fix and last night I found a patch of cover and worked on force to the pile through it with the cone on the other side. It was hilarious, the cover was a tiny patch and she still tried to go around it, even lined up right to it. Silly dog. But after a few times, I got her going to and from the pile through the cover. Just fun to work through a new concept with her. Its always a nice time when you see your dog figure it out. 
So this morning I'm going to practice that stuff again. Lets see how she does, if she will fight me or if she'll do what I want, lol.


----------



## Loisiana

Drove three hours each way to bring Flip and Phoenix to a small golden training group. They only do water marks in the summer due to the heat. They did some drills to work on cheating.

Flip only cheated once, on a return. One of the ponds we worked on was really small. Flip launches so far I thought he was going to totally clear the pond (hmmm, how would that work if a test had limited water and the dog didn't get wet because he went OVER the water?). 

Just very simple marks for Phoenix, this was his first time to have anyone else throw for him. Started with really short marks and worked up in length. Did perfect until he got to the longest mark, got a little lost in the middle of the pond so had the thrower help him.


----------



## hollyk

Fliers kicked our butts today. Yeesh!


----------



## FTGoldens

hollyk said:


> Fliers kicked our butts today. Yeesh!


That piques my curiosity ... it what way did they kick your butts?
FTGoldens


----------



## hotel4dogs

Just reporting in on Tito's injury. He seems to be doing great, which makes this such a difficult time. I need to keep him "quiet" for at least another week, and he doesn't seem to agree with that plan.
It does look like we're going to get into the Spaniel tests June 21 and 22 <<fingers crossed>>, so I'm inclined to cancel all agility and tracking until after that, just do some light field. I hate to run the tests with no training for 4 weeks, but I would hate even more for the injury to not be healed yet and not be able to run them at all.


----------



## Vhuynh2

Now that we are done with Junior and I'm back from vacation, we have stepped up our training. I had not done anything that wasn't Junior-related in a while. My trainer said to do only marks for 10 days before any Junior tests. We had 3 weekends of tests in 4 weeks, so we hadn't done any real handling in about a month.

On Tuesday at our group training, Molly did doubles for the first time in a while. I also introduced a new memory blind that has very hilly terrain involved. Yesterday, I saw my trainer with a small group and we worked on decheating and the verbal cue "water". We called our dogs across the pond and I really thought Molly would run around the bank especially after watching me walk around, but she jumped in and swam across to me. My trainer asked me if I could get Molly into the water on "back" without a visible pile or throwing a bumper and I said not likely because we had never done it before. But once I said "dead bird" she knew, and did not hesitate when I said "back". At this point we just threw a bumper in the pond in front of her. I need to have more faith in my girl! 

Today, I had a private session. Trainer wanted to see if Molly still has her "back" and whistle sit to and from. She still does. Her sits are a little crooked (to the right) but she will turn left when I ask her to. Then, we worked on back pile across a pond (first time). She does swim across the pond but gets confused when she gets out on the other side, so I will try putting a big white bucket 15 yards away from shore. 

I'm really glad to be back at it.


----------



## MillionsofPeaches

Wow it really sounds like Molly is doing great!! its addicting, right??? 

Today Kat is crashed out, I mean literally exhausted. This morning we did water marks and I did a lot of pile work through cover. We were working on decheating and the marks were thrown along the bank but in the water about 100 yards out maybe a bit more. The bank had a very shallow shoreline that all the dogs wanted to run along instead of taking straight lines. They'd get out there and then hook right to the bank. The line was on top of a steep slope and the dogs had to go down it before they got in the water but then back up it on the delivery which I think really drained her out, though she never quit. My main goal was that Kat kept her feet wet. She did eh, she was doing fine but then when we turned it into a double she figured out it was much faster to cheat. So then I went back to singles and she was still skirting that shallow bank. Afterwards I did some more pile work from that hill down along the shore. My main goal was for her to go into this strip of cover and stay on it to the pile. She did that great, so I was very pleased with that aspect. I'm going to go out there next week with my kids and have them throw the same marks and work on that cheating. Anyway, I really feel like she is doing good, building confidence in herself and her endurance is really good right now. We're having fun.


----------



## boomers_dawn

We did marks a few times, singles, Junior stuff, Dee Dee has been doing better with perserverance, not stopping to ask for directions, and figuring it out. She's better in water than on land. At SBGRC I signed her up for young dog group b/c I couldn't go to the big group. I asked for some Junior type land marks - she got a little lost and visited the thrower once at first, but stayed out and figured it out. 

My confidence in her ability to do Junior is better but not 100%.
She seems to do better with birds. I think dog skool teecher is getting some birds for us to do a last call before closing for "our clubs" where I would enter and work at.

She's back for another round of field class and practicing whistle stuff and baby overs and backs. She can do left and right back with some help.

Gladys should be coming home this weekend or next latest. She'll need some exercise conditioning but if she comes home Sunday she can come to group with us and do some easy singles.


----------



## hollyk

FTGoldens said:


> That piques my curiosity ... it what way did they kick your butts?
> FTGoldens


Here's my stick figure setup drawing.
It started with blind 1, a short land blind, then three marks went down, the first one was the flier. We were told the dogs were not allowed to pick up the flier first but after that it was your choice. So they went down, land flier, second land mark out of the other side of the holding blind and then the go bird thrown into water, this was a unexciting doken. We were told to make the bird order choices we would make at a test but to correct because this is training. Last was the water blind. 

Here was our run. It took a bit to get Winter not to see water for the short land blind but once i got her locked on the line she did a nice job. All three marks went down and she was steady. I sent to the last mark down, the water mark. The true line was water, over the point, water to the mark. My straight running girl tried to cheat. If you run land to the first mark you can get back faster and get to pick up that flier. So I stopped her and casted into water. The bank is a little high and there is a bit of tall grass at the edge so you lose sight of them for a moment close to the bank. I heard the splash that she went in but no Winter swimming for mark. Look right and there she is paralleling the bank trying to get to the flier. Bad choice, put her back on the correct line and she picks up water mark.
After that we picked up the other birds and reset the test. This time she took the correct line to the water mark. Because of the wind I decided to pick up the flier next instead of going outside outside inside. Send her out for the 3 mark and there was a bigger hunt then I would have thought. Although seemed to mark that bird I think she was still thinking about the flier when it went down. She did ok on the water blind.
If we didn't have a flier in the mix I think she would have smacked the setup. I guess that is why they throw fliers in tests.


----------



## Vhuynh2

Today, Molly saw water lilies for the first time. She has always been fine with the pads but she really wanted to eat the flowers. I swear she was pretending to not see the dokken that she was swimming a few feet away from, while chomping on the flowers. Trainer says he thinks she could not see it, but then she ate a flower a few inches away from it. Hmmm. I finally gave her a strong "back" and she brought back a flower along with the bumper. She never drops the bumper but today she dropped it to eat the flower she brought back. I'd tell her to "leave it" which she did, and then "fetch" and it's as if she thought I was telling her to fetch the flower. Aagghh!! We did the mark a second time, this time I told her "fetch" when I saw her going towards a flower, and we had no other problems. We will work more on this.

We also did backpile across water which was just okay.. she took a straight line for the first two and then started to go way left for the last two. After that, we did some blind work with ducks. We usually only use bumpers -- today was only our second time using ducks for blind work. She must have really loved the nice fluffy birds I had thawed out because she was REALLY breaking on "dead bird".

After training, we had a photo shoot. She is such a good model.


----------



## hollyk

Vhuynh2 said:


> Today, Molly saw water lilies for the first time. She has always been fine with the pads but she really wanted to eat the flowers. I swear she was pretending to not see the dokken that she was swimming a few feet away from, while chomping on the flowers. Trainer says he thinks she could not see it, but then she ate a flower a few inches away from it. Hmmm. I finally gave her a strong "back" and she brought back a flower along with the bumper. She never drops the bumper but today she dropped it to eat the flower she brought back. I'd tell her to "leave it" which she did, and then "fetch" and it's as if she thought I was telling her to fetch the flower. Aagghh!! We did the mark a second time, this time I told her "fetch" when I saw her going towards a flower, and we had no other problems. We will work more on this.
> 
> We also did backpile across water which was just okay.. she took a straight line for the first two and then started to go way left for the last two. After that, we did some blind work with ducks. We usually only use bumpers -- today was only our second time using ducks for blind work. She must have really loved the nice fluffy birds I had thawed out because she was REALLY breaking on "dead bird".
> 
> After training, we had a photo shoot. She is such a good model.


OMG Vivian, do you have ducks in your freezer?


----------



## Vhuynh2

hollyk said:


> OMG Vivian, do you have ducks in your freezer?



Yes I do! Except, they're in Molly's freezer.


----------



## Max's Dad

Great job, Molly. That is a big duck!


----------



## boomers_dawn

We had training today. We did in and out walking singles then a set up of 3 marks. 

Gladys is home. Both girls did all singles.

Gladys needs to get back in shape. I felt bad for her, she looks really uncomfortable in her .. um ... postpartum state. Let's just say she looks like she needs a breast pump :-( 
But she was happy to run, wag wag wag.

She did good on her singles except cheated on the way back on one mark, and wouldn't sit on the whistle. I didn't want to be hard on her since she's been home one day so I walked out and sent her over back into the water. 

Dee Dee did pretty good. I think she needed help once all day.

Most of the group is contemplating readiness for junior. I'm kind of on the fence. I was thinking about all those junior tests I flunked in the past from being unprepared or underprepared. 

When Boomer and I did junior, we had so many tests where we had to sit on the bucket, sit in a boat. It was never easy. I don't expect easy. I expect bad surprises and unforseen challenges. 

So today I dragged my little stool to the line and asked dog skool teecher if we could practice sending and receiving on the bucket. Both dogs did great with it.

So the plan is get Gladys back in shape and continue to train Dee Dee for JH and go to feeld class where we work on drills.

Whoops I meant to add this photo of Gladys 3 little chubbettes, hope this works


----------



## coaraujo

boomers_dawn said:


> We had training today. We did in and out walking singles then a set up of 3 marks.
> 
> Gladys is home. Both girls did all singles.
> 
> Gladys needs to get back in shape. I felt bad for her, she looks really uncomfortable in her .. um ... postpartum state. Let's just say she looks like she needs a breast pump :-(
> But she was happy to run, wag wag wag.
> 
> She did good on her singles except cheated on the way back on one mark, and wouldn't sit on the whistle. I didn't want to be hard on her since she's been home one day so I walked out and sent her over back into the water.
> 
> Dee Dee did pretty good. I think she needed help once all day.
> 
> Most of the group is contemplating readiness for junior. I'm kind of on the fence. I was thinking about all those junior tests I flunked in the past from being unprepared or underprepared.
> 
> When Boomer and I did junior, we had so many tests where we had to sit on the bucket, sit in a boat. It was never easy. I don't expect easy. I expect bad surprises and unforseen challenges.
> 
> So today I dragged my little stool to the line and asked dog skool teecher if we could practice sending and receiving on the bucket. Both dogs did great with it.
> 
> So the plan is get Gladys back in shape and continue to train Dee Dee for JH and go to feeld class where we work on drills.
> 
> Whoops I meant to add this photo of Gladys 3 little chubbettes, hope this works


Mom and daughter looked great today. Deedee looks like she's gaining confidence. Im happy you took out your stool to the line - great practice for all of us so thank you. 

Question: why is it bad for the dogs to cheat and swim to the bank and run the rest of the way? I know its not what we want but when my BF asked me why it matters I wasnt really sure what the answer was. I thought maybe its we want them to travel the most direct line to and from us?

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## MillionsofPeaches

This is exactly what we were working on Thursday. The dogs were all swimming across to bank and hooking right to it, running along and then going back into the water to pick up the bumper. These are my reasons for decheating them...When they do not taking a direct line for me their point of view completely changes once they get off their line and it is much easier for them to lose the bird. Secondly, I guarantee my line will be the most efficient and safest line for them to take. Third, they should do what I say, and this perpetuates their idea of having free will. 




coaraujo said:


> Mom and daughter looked great today. Deedee looks like she's gaining confidence. Im happy you took out your stool to the line - great practice for all of us so thank you.
> 
> Question: why is it bad for the dogs to cheat and swim to the bank and run the rest of the way? I know its not what we want but when my BF asked me why it matters I wasnt really sure what the answer was. I thought maybe its we want them to travel the most direct line to and from us?
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## hotel4dogs

One of the hunt tests we ran recently had a very treacherous shore line. Seriously could set the dogs up for injury if they had insisted on coming back around the pond rather than swimming back across (none did). 
Your dog needs to do what he's told to do, whether or not he thinks coming back around is "faster". It might be, but it isn't always safer.


----------



## coaraujo

Thank you both, all of those reasons make a lot of sense. Right now we have no issue with a straight line to the bird but definitely had issues on the way back. We did our first water - land combination drill this weekend. Definitely showed our inexperience. Thanks again!

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## K9-Design

That and often because of the shore and cover, if a dog cheats he will get thrown way off the mark and have a lot of difficulty finding it. It's a trainability issue.


----------



## FTGoldens

hotel4dogs said:


> One of the hunt tests we ran recently had a very treacherous shore line. Seriously could set the dogs up for injury if they had insisted on coming back around the pond rather than swimming back across (none did).


It's shameful for the judges to set up a test like that, knowing that there may be some dogs coming back by way of the shoreline. Not only is it a bad showing for both of those particular judges, but the Hunt Test Committee has the responsibility to step in and protect the dogs. 
That makes me angry!

FTGoldens


----------



## hotel4dogs

Oh, in all fairness, this was a master level test, and the dogs would have to be pretty well nuts to have come back around the pond. It wasn't set up as a cheating mark; the clear way back was straight across. Would have been a long way around the pond, versus a short swim (about 60 yards) in clear water. The entries and exits were nice 90 degree angles. It was a Spaniel (upland) test, not a retriever test.




FTGoldens said:


> It's shameful for the judges to set up a test like that, knowing that there may be some dogs coming back by way of the shoreline. Not only is it a bad showing for both of those particular judges, but the Hunt Test Committee has the responsibility to step in and protect the dogs.
> That makes me angry!
> 
> FTGoldens


----------



## boomers_dawn

I couldn't to go Tues group b/c of work this week but ran out and did some quick stuff local - singles.

This is Dee Dee getting ready to go anywhere: :greenboun

Dee Dee chugged through still smallish lilypads all the way across a not too huge pond without hesitating for a bumper placed in some high weeds right at the edge. After that, a couple JH marks into knee high cover; she stopped and looked short on one, stopped looking, looked at me for a fraction of a second .. then ... remembered ... to bust through higher cover and go further looking more!! YAY!! YAY!! YAY!! YAY!! She didn't need any help today. :banana:

She has learned so much in the past few weeks, to sit still, focus on the thrower, get out there, and look. Some things may still be over her head, but I'm thrilled with her progress.

Gladys did singles again. I didn't want to be hard on her again today, but she didn't come when callled so .. maternity leave is over now Gladys. :nopity:


----------



## Alaska7133

I just had to throw this in here. Yesterday a friend was training on Fire Lake in Eagle River throwing bumpers. Her yellow lab lost his bumper to a eagle. Why the eagle wanted the bumper that badly I don't know. But it swooped down and took off with it. Her son had to swim out to drag the dog back in. The lab was circling and going crazy trying to find the bumper, it just couldn't figure out what was going on. Eagle did not come back with the bumper.


----------



## AmbikaGR

coaraujo said:


> Question: why is it bad for the dogs to cheat and swim to the bank and run the rest of the way? I know its not what we want but when my BF asked me why it matters I wasnt really sure what the answer was. I thought maybe its we want them to travel the most direct line to and from us?
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I believe the original reason for this is just as it is on land - so as not to disturb any more cover than is absolutely necessary. So I think generally your thought is correct and that is this is the reason.


----------



## AmbikaGR

For various reasons I have not gotten out training as much as I should lately. Did make my Tuesday group today and was rather pleased with both girls. 
The land we used was recently cut in rows. I got there a little late and they had two stations set in the field. One was down the hill about 125 yards and due to the terrain of the rows the fall disappeared behind the cover. The second was about 80 yards and again across the grain of the rows.
Did them both as singles. I ran Oriana first and the down hill mark she nailed. The second she went WAY long but her line was perfect, I believe a bird would have caught her nose as she stepped on it. She worked her way back in and picked it up.
Brooke I decided to reverse the marks as she does not have the same drive as Oriana and I wanted her to be successful on the first mark. Well she went even deeper than Oriana. LOL But her line was not as good and I eventually had the gunner "hey, hey" her back to the area where she promptly picked it up. The downhill mark she nailed.
I decided today was the day to try our first cold blinds outside of our normal training spot. Set up a straight forward blind about 40-50 yards in the middle of the field but again across the grain of the rows. Ran Oriana first and she lined it with purpose. I then ran Brooke on it. She popped about 20 yards out in between the first and second rows. I gave her an angle back and she drove it right through the cover and held the line directly to the bumper. I was/AM ECSTATIC!!! :artydude
Set up a second series at the bottom of the hill. Go mark was about 70 yards, memory was about 90 yards. Ran both girls as a double. Brooke aced it. Oriana gets herself so high waiting for the go mark she loses her concentration. So she had a little hunt on the go mark but got the memory nicely. It was then time to do another blind. this one was about 75 yards and across about 5 rows. Ran Brooke first this time. Her initial line was a little left but I let her continue as she did have momentum. I stopped her when she was about parallel with the blind and gave her a cast. She sluggishly took it. I stopped her again and this time she took the cast and carried it about 20 yards to the blind. Again I was thrilled. On Oriana's I guess I sent her too fast and she went about 5 steps and turned and looked at me. I called her back tot he line and recast her after making sure she was in sync with me. She took off like a shot and drove through row after row. I lost my depth perception and stopped her thinking she was too deep. She sat looked at me, bent over and oicked up the bumper. I was shocked. First that she was not too deep. But mostly that she actually took my sit whistle at the spot the bumper was and she sat!! 
Due to having to be home for some family stuff I left early and called it a day. But it was a very good day for both my girls AND me!!!


----------



## Loisiana

I brought Flip and Phoenix out to the training group for the second week. Proud of my little Phoenix dude considering that aside from last week's group, all he's ever done is me tossing bumpers in my backyard. Today was his first time to get marks thrown in cover, and his first time for gunshots. Worked on longer swims on water marks. He loves water, plows right in.


----------



## gdgli

Ambika

:listen:Red surveyor's tape for those blinds.


----------



## AmbikaGR

gdgli said:


> Ambika
> 
> :listen:Red surveyor's tape for those blinds.


I like orange driveway markers in fields where the blind is in the middle of the field. But it still does not help with depth perception.


----------



## hotel4dogs

We did head out to Dan's today, I think Tito's wrist is okay, but we took it real easy. Did a little quail hunting, it was very hot, Tito trapped 2 of 3 birds, it was too hot to do any more. Ran a "hunt dead" in which he took a horrible line, I called him back, sent him again and he lined it, so that was somewhat pointless. A quick water mark, and called it a day. The good news is it didn't cause him to start limping again.


----------



## Alaska7133

How hot is it? I need to hear about warm weather somewhere. We had fresh snow yesterday.


----------



## boomers_dawn

Booo snow.
It's cool here but I'm not about to complain. It's kind of nice dog weather.

We did drills today. Gladys went back to 5 pile baseball. She didn't take good lines but stopped and took my casts. It was a good refresher, I was proud of her.

Dee Dee did 3 pile baseball. She needs a lot more practice


----------



## Loisiana

90's here with insanely high humidity.

Tonight I was able to leave Phoenix on a sit, walk about 100 feet away, and toss his bumper, and have him wait to be sent. This is the first time I've gone more than about 30 feet from him on a stay, so I was pleased that he didn't break


----------



## hotel4dogs

It was only 80, but bright sun and little breeze. Way too hot for Tito to run all out for long.


----------



## Alaska7133

Thanks for the warmth! In Alaska I have wool for all seasons.

Last night we did water work. Goldens and Tollers. Water work is the only time I run all 3 of my dogs. Hunter has decided now that water is the only place he'll do retrieves. Which is fine, he's almost 9 now. Everybody was super happy and excited, something about water is a drug to them. We were able to use a private lake with a dock. So we worked on our flying launch entries and more all out fun. Unfortunately the property owner had cut down all the brush and tall grass/reeds along shore, so they didn't get all the experience of real water entry work. The water here is still very cold, so after an hour they were shivering, so it was time to pack up. The float planes were coming in, so we needed to get out of their way anyway.


----------



## hollyk

This is one of my favorite spots we train. It is just so pretty.
There is a 3rd mark thrown from about where I took the pic into a pool down stream. The water blind ran under the arc of both upstream marks, straight up the stream bed. This was run as 3 singles and then the water blind. We started with a land blind though three sets of trees forming slots. 
Winter did a nice job.


----------



## Vhuynh2

hollyk said:


> This is one of my favorite spots we train. It is just so pretty.
> 
> There is a 3rd mark thrown from about where I took the pic into a pool down stream. The water blind ran under the arc of both upstream marks, straight up the stream bed. This was ran as 3 singles and then water blind. We started with a land blind though three sets of trees forming slots.
> 
> Winter did a nice job.


Where is this?


----------



## hollyk

Vhuynh2 said:


> Where is this?


About 2 hours south on private land.


----------



## MillionsofPeaches

that looks beautiful but over here, all I imagine is snakes in that stream...it is really bad this season... Of course it is mid 90's with what feels like 100% humidity we don't train really after 9 am.


----------



## hotel4dogs

humidity is the worst for dogs, they aren't able to cool themselves down. I know gdgli reminded everyone, but here it is again...be very careful in the heat!


----------



## hollyk

I'm in the Coastal PNW I don't think we were in the 70's on Thursday.
Not much in the way of snakes, ticks, heart-worm or the nasty grasses either. I did have to make sure to close the gates as I went though so the cows stayed in the field they were supposed to.


----------



## Alaska7133

Barb,
I had no idea those spaniel tests would be that much fun! Today was our local spaniel club fun day. You could buy quail for $10 each. So I bought 2 for Reilly and 2 for Lucy. Holy cow! I had no idea what my dogs would be like, but they've loved the heck out of it. The field we were in was willows with grasses about 20" high. The willows get eaten down by the moose every year, so they are an even 20" all across the fields. I ran Reilly first. We got into a pattern of quartering pretty quickly. He instinctively new the game. His first quail flushed and it was shot. He ran to get it and in the process flushed another quail. Which of course made him forget his first bird. The gunner winged the second quail which made Reilky hunt that darn quail all over the place. That quail kept popping up and getting shot at over and over. Reilly was on it. But unfortunately it got away in the trees, never to be found. So then Reilly went back to find his first bird, but he couldn't. I felt sorry for him, he wanted to stay out and hunt more birds. 

Next I ran Lucy. she launched way high in the sky at both birds flushing. She came darn near catching them both. No problem getting them shot and retrieving them. She also had no problem figuring out the whole quartering thing. I'm sure we weren't perfect, but they got the job done a heck of a lot better than some of the spaniels. 

You're right Barb, that spaniel hunt test stuff is fun. My dogs had that very intense hunting instinct look about them. There was a photographer today, but I don't have the photos back. He got a lot of action shots. My new shot gun is going to get a work out this fall!


----------



## Alaska7133

60 degrees today. I had the back of my SUV open. I turned the crate fans on to keep the Mosquitos blown off the dogs. Everyone had to come over and look at what a crate fan was. It just doesn't get very hot here. So I think more people will be buying them to keep the Mosquitos blown off their dogs. Just another use for a crate fan I guess.


----------



## hotel4dogs

Ah Stacey, they are a BLAST, aren't they? Now you see why Tito thinks that upland hunting is the best best best thing in the world  .
And to be honest, I think they really show a dog's instincts, much more than watching dead birds get thrown around  .


----------



## MillionsofPeaches

that's so funny you said that about the quail. My trainer had some extra quail left over for the puppies and he threw one out for Peaches. I've never seen her act like that. With big mallards she was very hesitant but these little quail made her go ape-poo. She was jumping up vertical for these guys and chasing them everywhere. When they'd lay and be still it really ticked her off and she was like a cat, batting at them trying to get them to fly up. It was so fun to watch her but now in the yard she thinks all birds are quail and chases after them.


----------



## gdgli

My opinion: A birdy Golden loves upland work. They love the smells, the chase, diving into cover. One of the reasons I like a high flying Golden is for the pheasant hunting. Watch your dog hunting in knee high grass. Those zig zags are following a running bird. Then you get the dog gaining on the pheasant and the flush. I myself still get an adrenaline rush at the flush.

You didn't get a good shot and just wounded the bird? Watch that dog run that bird into some brush, fighting the brush and bird, and hear the cockbird cackle as the dog moves in on it to fetch it up.

That's what a Golden loves. OK, it is my opinion. But Goldens are a little too good at this to be just non-slip retrievers.


----------



## hotel4dogs

So very, very well said!




gdgli said:


> My opinion: A birdy Golden loves upland work. They love the smells, the chase, diving into cover. One of the reasons I like a high flying Golden is for the pheasant hunting. Watch your dog hunting in knee high grass. Those zig zags are following a running bird. Then you get the dog gaining on the pheasant and the flush. I myself still get an adrenaline rush at the flush.
> 
> You didn't get a good shot and just wounded the bird? Watch that dog run that bird into some brush, fighting the brush and bird, and hear the cockbird cackle as the dog moves in on it to fetch it up.
> 
> That's what a Golden loves. OK, it is my opinion. But Goldens are a little too good at this to be just non-slip retrievers.


----------



## hollyk

Last week when I was training with the Pro and running a water blind he told me I was casting way too fast. I needed to make sure she had made eye contact with me, then start a 3 second count, then cast. He had me rerun the blind and stop her 3 times in route, sure enough she autocasted after about 1 second of waiting. He said, I bet you are doing this on land also. Ran land later in the week. Yep same thing, slipping whistles if I don't cast her after about 1 second. So I'm trying to be really mindful of holding that eye contact for 3 seconds. It seems like a long time so that tells me this has not been my habit.


----------



## hotel4dogs

I used to be guilty of the same thing. It's a hard habit to break!
Just go out and do some Spaniel tests, LOL. Then the dog doesn't know if a cast is coming, or a command to "hunt em up", (find the bird himself). It corrects autocasting  .



hollyk said:


> Last week when I was training with the Pro and running a water blind he told me I was casting way too fast. I needed to make sure she had made eye contact with me, then start a 3 second count, then cast. He had me rerun the blind and stop her 3 times in route, sure enough she autocasted after about 1 second of waiting. He said, I bet you are doing this on land also. Ran land later in the week. Yep same thing, slipping whistles if I don't cast her after about 1 second. So I'm trying to be really mindful of holding that eye contact for 3 seconds. It seems like a long time so that tells me this has not been my habit.


----------



## hollyk

hotel4dogs said:


> I used to be guilty of the same thing. It's a hard habit to break!
> Just go out and do some Spaniel tests, LOL. Then the dog doesn't know if a cast is coming, or a command to "hunt em up", (find the bird himself). It corrects autocasting  .



I'm hoping to go Upland hunting with her in the fall.


----------



## Alaska7133

The photos below of where we hunted the quail. The first one is Reilly watching the bird after he's flushed it. The vegetation is willow browse. The moose eat it down to that point every year the same way. It's about 20" or so high. So it's bushy with grass in between. Some bare spots. The field was about 100 yards by 200 yards, so not very big by retriever standards. The second photo if Lucy handing me a quail. Isn't she a pretty little bird dog? Since I don't have any hunter orange, I wore a safety vest from work. The dogs had to wear orange collars. 

Yesterday DH and I took my shotgun to the range. When we got it out, Lucy and Reilly were all excited, they thought hey we're getting more quail!

Here's the interesting part, I didn't have to use the e-collar once!


----------



## Sir Copper

Finally was able to train with my boy Copper, his trainer is having me come out to the training grounds and work with him. I had a blast and it was quite the learning experience and watching some of the finished dogs was amazing. Copper is just about done with Force Fetch, the trainer said that he catches on very quick and is going to pass some of the other dogs that have been there longer than him! He holds the bumper a little sloppy right now but he thinks it will improve once force fetch is done and he won't have the pressure on him. He also mentioned that his retrieve drive is threw the roof and said he could get him to be a Master hunter no problem, I don't know the rankings but I'm assuming it's good. I got to throw some marks for him and he did very well, went straight to the bird and didn't have to hunt hard for it. He are a couple pictures of the training grounds and Copper, he is actually training where they had the Nationals last year.


----------



## Alaska7133

Good for you! Have fun!


----------



## boomers_dawn

Everyone at our house has been working on back and singles.
Today we did down the shore singles in a small lake with a ton of wind and strong current. The poor girls were being blown around and pushed into shore.
But they did the work and tried really hard to fight the current on the way back too.
Love them <3


----------



## Pady Murphy

*Help on Water Blinds*

Having a real problem with water blinds - I send my four year old on "dead bird" and he will swim out about 15 feet and will swim in circles. Appears to be really confused and will swim back towards me. We are not having a problem on land at all - he either lines the land blind or if not lining it he takes all casts beautifully. I have been doing a lot of show me blinds on water and when he knows exactly where he is going with the show me he seems to be ok but if I don't show him each time he will not go out. He is also not taking the casts on water and when I blow the whistle he just swims towards me with a confused scared look on his face. We completed the swim by-he did fine because it was the same each time. Any place a bit different seems to cause anxiety. Any suggestions?


----------



## Loisiana

Been working on Phoenix not running to the bird boy and on lengthening marks, so we went to no cover this week to work on both of those.


----------



## hotel4dogs

Got 2 more Master Hunter Upland passes this weekend, that's #3 and #4. Takes 6 for the MHU title, so we are chipping away at it.
The birds were terrible, they didn't want to fly at all. All of the Master dogs trapped several birds, it was hard to get a good flush. Tito lined the "hunt dead"  . Nice water work. We had a great time, met some awesome people. Photos of the ribbons to follow, this club gave REALLY nice ribbons. My camera battery is dead, I need to charge it overnight.


----------



## boomers_dawn

I couldn't go to group today but had a flashback this weekend and remembered decoys. I can't remember if Dee Dee did decoys last year. I think she did but I'm not sure.

So I put some big goose decoys in the yard and threw some bumpers into them. Good thing, b/c she was leery of them but got used to them. I brought one in the house and have been putting their food dishes next to it. Now they ignore it.
I'll have to look for the duck ones and leave them lying around so they become part of the scenery.

I stopped by group at the end hoping they would have used decoys and I could throw some bumpers into them at the end, but they didn't use decoys.

A couple people offered to throw for Dee Dee after group, that was so nice.
She did great until they threw a black bumper across the way onto shore for the last mark. This is my exact fear of what would happen at a test. She goes out right for it, misses it by a couple feet, goes to the throwers, looks at them, does a loop around them, runs around, gets back in the water, gets back on land, runs around the woods, goes back to the throwers ~infinity loop~ 

She was looking like she was about to come back in so they helped her, which they weren't supposed to, but I didn't want her coming back in anyway, which it sure looked like to me. DOH!

Gladys did a sight blind and some fun bumpers. I just wanted them to do something as they sat around all weeekend while I did all my obligatory crap. We need more weekends!


----------



## hotel4dogs

ok, as promised, the ribbon photos. You can tell Tito is really unimpressed with the ribbons, he thinks the whole thing is silly, just bring on the birds. 
Photos don't do the ribbons (or Tito,lol) justice. They're among the nicest ones we've gotten, the rosettes are huge. Tito has a big head, if you compare the rosette to his head you get an idea of how big they are.


----------



## Alaska7133

Very cool! Only 2 more passes! 

My MIL is in town during our first spaniel double header. DH is not too impressed that I'm considering going to the spaniel tests instead of helping entertain her. Hmmm tough choices, MIL time or spaniel tests? Which would you pick?


----------



## hotel4dogs

LOLOLOL now THAT's a no-brainer!!! Be sure to let us know how you do at the Spaniel tests!!!


----------



## K9-Design

Pady Murphy said:


> Having a real problem with water blinds - I send my four year old on "dead bird" and he will swim out about 15 feet and will swim in circles. Appears to be really confused and will swim back towards me. We are not having a problem on land at all - he either lines the land blind or if not lining it he takes all casts beautifully. I have been doing a lot of show me blinds on water and when he knows exactly where he is going with the show me he seems to be ok but if I don't show him each time he will not go out. He is also not taking the casts on water and when I blow the whistle he just swims towards me with a confused scared look on his face. We completed the swim by-he did fine because it was the same each time. Any place a bit different seems to cause anxiety. Any suggestions?



Contact a pro trainer.
Has he been properly water forced?
What training program did you follow?
I would recommend STOPPING all water blind work until you can find someone to help you. Every time you do a water blind and the above occurs, you are digging your hole deeper....


----------



## AmbikaGR

Alaska7133 said:


> Very cool! Only 2 more passes!
> 
> My MIL is in town during our first spaniel double header. DH is not too impressed that I'm considering going to the spaniel tests instead of helping entertain her. Hmmm tough choices, MIL time or spaniel tests? Which would you pick?



Well there is no one more dog oriented than I. But with that said let me just say that I wish I had the option to make that choice as my MIL passed over 35 years ago.


----------



## Alaska7133

I'm so sorry I didn't mean to offend anyone. It was just a joke that sometimes we put optional things ahead of our families. I think that happens all too often. There will be many more hunt tests to attend down the road. My MIL is 75. She's bringing her boyfriend to meet us for the first time, he's 80. So yes I'll be missing the hunt test! This may very well be their last opportunity to visit Alaska.


----------



## AmbikaGR

Alaska7133 said:


> I'm so sorry I didn't mean to offend anyone. It was just a joke that sometimes we put optional things ahead of our families. I think that happens all too often. There will be many more hunt tests to attend down the road. My MIL is 75. She's bringing her boyfriend to meet us for the first time, he's 80. So yes I'll be missing the hunt test! This may very well be their last opportunity to visit Alaska.



No offense taken or meant. I did not appreciate her enough while she was here though. I am definitely an ASS as I would likely go to the field trial if she was here. :doh:


----------



## hollyk

Barb,
Wow, congratulations!!!!!!


----------



## boomers_dawn

I couldn't go to Tues group again b/c work but a couple of us got together super early and quick. I wanted to do decoys. I thought we did them last year but couldn't remember. Thank goodness we did them b/c Dee Dee examined every single one, got tangled in a couple, and still kept going to them. She was getting distracted and stopping short of where she needed to go and forgetting to go out and finish the job.

I made a fun graphic titled "Dee Dee does decoys".
Key: Blue = water, Green = land and/or vegetation clumps in the water, Orange triangle = decoys, X = thrower, star = bird, black line = line.

The pink line is kind of hard to see but shows her path to the bird.
This was after a full first series of 4 singles working on this.
I could not believe it. While all this happened I just stood there doing not one single thing.

Dee Dee went out, check out 3 decoys, looped around the inside cove forgetting to go to the outer cove where the bird was, swam way out right to the old mark from the first series, came back, got on land and ran around the bank, ran behind me, debated picking something from the pile at the line (standard m.o. when doesn't know what else to do), decided against that (thank GOD), circled me a couple times, came to heel, looked out, saw thrower stand up, went "oh yeah!" and went back out without needing to be sent, went to thrower and did a couple iterations around that area, either saw or scented the bird and finally figured it out!

At least she kept going! I wanted to do decoys and we sure did, so I guess training was a success.

Gladys did triples today. She didn't remember everything but went when sent and figured it out. It's good to get her thinking again.


----------



## Alaska7133

Puppies are so much fun when they are figuring things out. Once she's 2 yrs old all this will be old hat!


----------



## gdgli

Pady Murphy said:


> Having a real problem with water blinds - I send my four year old on "dead bird" and he will swim out about 15 feet and will swim in circles. Appears to be really confused and will swim back towards me. We are not having a problem on land at all - he either lines the land blind or if not lining it he takes all casts beautifully. I have been doing a lot of show me blinds on water and when he knows exactly where he is going with the show me he seems to be ok but if I don't show him each time he will not go out. He is also not taking the casts on water and when I blow the whistle he just swims towards me with a confused scared look on his face. We completed the swim by-he did fine because it was the same each time. Any place a bit different seems to cause anxiety. Any suggestions?


I would try to straighten out the confusion. No harm in taking a step backwards. They may be out of fashion but why not try pop up blinds and slowly increase the distance.


----------



## gdgli

Alaska7133 said:


> Very cool! Only 2 more passes!
> 
> My MIL is in town during our first spaniel double header. DH is not too impressed that I'm considering going to the spaniel tests instead of helping entertain her. Hmmm tough choices, MIL time or spaniel tests? Which would you pick?


Go to the spaniel tests. No need to ask why.


----------



## gdgli

Nothing like success. Working on casting today, tuning it up and everything went well. Working on honoring and everything went well.

But how can I get her to calm down a little upon approaching the water's edge? 
Another challenge.


----------



## boomers_dawn

gdgli said:


> Nothing like success. Working on casting today, tuning it up and everything went well. Working on honoring and everything went well.
> 
> But how can I get her to calm down a little upon approaching the water's edge?
> Another challenge.


Let us know when you find out!


----------



## hotel4dogs

Just a thought, but can you walk her to the water's edge, then turn and toss a mark on land instead? Maybe mix that in so that sometimes her marks are on water, sometimes on land, even though she's at the water's edge?


----------



## gdgli

hotel4dogs said:


> Just a thought, but can you walk her to the water's edge, then turn and toss a mark on land instead? Maybe mix that in so that sometimes her marks are on water, sometimes on land, even though she's at the water's edge?


You have given me a good idea. Trying this will at least give me more information on her no matter what the response is.


----------



## FTGoldens

gdgli said:


> But how can I get her to calm down a little upon approaching the water's edge?
> Another challenge.


I don't understand ... maybe I missed a post that further explains what is going on with your girl. Depending on what is going on with her, and more importantly why you think it is going on (i.e., "read" your dog), the fix could be a bunch of different things. Is she just excited because she wants to get in the water; is she anxious about being near the water because she thinks she's going to be forced in it; is she anxious because she thinks she is in trouble for being hear the water but not in it; etc.?
FTGoldens


----------



## FTGoldens

boomers_dawn said:


> I wanted to do decoys. I thought we did them last year but couldn't remember. Thank goodness we did them b/c Dee Dee examined every single one, got tangled in a couple, and still kept going to them. She was getting distracted and stopping short of where she needed to go and forgetting to go out and finish the job.


You may have already done this, but before the next "decoys in water adventure," I'd strongly suggest a few "decoys on land adventures." That's a better way to introduce a pup to decoys without any risk of pup becoming entangled in decoy lines, which can create huge problems with wild flaring of decoys and even make a pup water shy. Just have the decoys on land and throw the bumper or bird in front of the decoys, then beside the decoys, then beyond the decoys, then into the middle of the decoys. 
When I have a new pup, I'll have 6 - 8 decoys just sitting around in the yard for a couple of months. Even with that introduction, however, the pup will sometimes make a near pass beside a decoy the first time they see them in the water (maybe because the decoys are now bobbing up and down with the pup's wake), but they quickly recognize them for what they are and swim right on past the decoys to the bird/bumper.
FTGoldens


----------



## boomers_dawn

FTGoldens said:


> I'd strongly suggest a few "decoys on land adventures." That's a better way to introduce a pup to decoys without any risk of pup becoming entangled in decoy lines, which can create huge problems with wild flaring of decoys and even make a pup water shy. Just have the decoys on land and throw the bumper or bird in front of the decoys, then beside the decoys, then beyond the decoys, then into the middle of the decoys.
> When I have a new pup, I'll have 6 - 8 decoys just sitting around in the yard for a couple of months. Even with that introduction, however, the pup will sometimes make a near pass beside a decoy the first time they see them in the water (maybe because the decoys are now bobbing up and down with the pup's wake), but they quickly recognize them for what they are and swim right on past the decoys to the bird/bumper.
> FTGoldens


Yes! We have been doing this, but thanks for the great advice and reminder.

I'm certain my neighbors and town hate me, b/c we have big goose decoys in our front yard; We do bumpers in, through, and around. 

We also have some decoys in the house that the food dishes get placed nearby - so they're just part of the scenery. 

I could swear we already did decoys in water last summer, I just can't remember for sure. Getting tangled in the decoy is something I'm glad to get over with in training instead of a test. She wasn't traumatized enough to not go look again, though, so .... ya never know.


----------



## FTGoldens

boomers_dawn said:


> I'm certain my neighbors and town hate me, b/c we have big goose decoys in our front yard;


I truly understand about the neighbors! Off and on, I've had pheasants and ducks in a pen in my backyard ... I'm sure that the neighbors recognize the hens' quacks, but those pheasants make some mighty strange noises! (Just yesterday a duck got away from me and flew over the privacy fence and into my neighbor's yard ... but she flew back into my yard about an hour later and one of my dogs fetched her up for me ... back into the pen with her friends she went.)
Ahhh the things we do for these dogs!!!

FTGoldens


----------



## gdgli

FTGoldens said:


> I don't understand ... maybe I missed a post that further explains what is going on with your girl. Depending on what is going on with her, and more importantly why you think it is going on (i.e., "read" your dog), the fix could be a bunch of different things. Is she just excited because she wants to get in the water; is she anxious about being near the water because she thinks she's going to be forced in it; is she anxious because she thinks she is in trouble for being hear the water but not in it; etc.?
> FTGoldens


The comment actually was tongue in cheek. She is very excited about getting in the water and I wouldn't want to alter this one bit. Actually, I couldn't---this is who she is. Anything that has happened has been dealt with through training, you know the typical stuff---Whining at water(solved), steadiness on marks at water (solved), breaking on honor when working dog hits the water (currently working on it, I won't be defeated).

I am always learning. This one taught me a lot about using her energy and channeling it to draw out the best in her.


----------



## FTGoldens

gdgli said:


> The comment actually was tongue in cheek.


 :doh:
I figured that I'd missed something!


----------



## Alaska7133

That's funny about the water. It is a serious drug. I have 3 goldens. My oldest, Hunter will only retrieve in water. 

This weekend has Lucy back in the conformation ring. I'm skipping obedience at this show since I've only been getting the paw lately from her. So maybe she'll do good in the ring and we'll get a pretty color ribbon. In any event I'll be poking myself in the eye wondering why the hell I promised her breeder I would finish her in conformation before I bred her. She'll be 80 at this rate. On the other hand I'm missing an excellent handler seminar with Eric Fangsrud from Montana by being at the show instead. So I'll bring some bumpers and we can do some drills while we wait for the pretty dog show to start. Maybe I'll get someone to throw for me while we hang out. I'm trying to get some of the show dog people to be interested in more of the field stuff, maybe some demonstrations might help.


----------



## Loisiana

I was supposed to bring Phoenix over for someone to throw bumpers for him, but it has been raining today and I am a fair weather trainer.


----------



## boomers_dawn

LOL Jodie.

A couple of us got together after work for lite training - they did marks and blinds mixed together. Gladys did the blinds then Dee Dee did singles then Gladys came back and did singles and a double.

They wanted to keep it simple but I brought a variety of decoys and we put them all over the place. 

Gladys can't wear the collar at this time. She's blown her coat post-partum and I noticed she had some red marks on her neck after wearing the collar. I think her fur is too thin to tolerate it. I used the slip lead and she was pulling on it, the next day I noticed wear marks on her neck - her coat is literally that thin. So it was interesting trying to do blinds without the collar. I said I would just yell and run out and make her do stuff. She did pretty good!

Dog skool teecher said I have to be faster on the whistle. I had to be able to see the blind flags too. He was blowing the whistle when I should have blown it. He said Gladys is too fast for me to be so slow.

She was steady and did amazing on the double too. She is amazing.

Dee Dee managed to pick up the birds but on the first one she got lost and ended up back and forth between where they had planted a blind and the thrower's bag. She bumbled around all over but to her credit and thank goodness the thrower didn't help her, she stayed out there and figured it out. Dog skool teecher calls it "SOB" for "Stumble on bird" - some people think if the dog finds the bird they deserve a ribbon but SOB means the dog didn't mark but persisted enough to .. well ... stumble across the bird after hunting long enough.

She did good on the rest of the marks except she broke on one!
It was my fault b/c I decided not to bumble with the leash and just hold her collar. She just took off! 

Now I know to hold on tighter.


----------



## Maxs Mom

Dog skool teecher said I have to be faster on the whistle. I had to be able to see the blind flags too. He was blowing the whistle when I should have blown it. He said Gladys is too fast for me to be so slow.

Yup I hear that all the time too.... My husband has started running Gabby in HRC tests (I don't shoot guns) he got his first pass a few weeks ago and the judge said she passed "despite" her handler. I'm sure she intimidated him. She is very good at doing that. One of our club members said he needs someone standing behind him telling him when to use the whistle. I told him please help him. I'm the wife he doesn't listen to me BUT he's been more receptive to listening since the first test. He understands now what I know. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## gdgli

boomers dawn

The pro said to me "Have the whistle already in your mouth when you send the dog on a blind". My mentor said to me "She's so fast you have to hit the whistle quickly".

Good advice for a healthy youngster who has quick reflexes. I just have to get him to run my dog. I am still a bit slow.


----------



## Maxs Mom

I'm am still a bit slow.

Sadly me too......I'm trying.... I just don't think as fast as Gabby runs. 

PS my whistle is in my mouth....


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## FTGoldens

gdgli said:


> I just have to get him to run my dog. I am still a bit slow.


Ha! I know what you mean!!! 
The key is to blow the whistle BEFORE your dog gets into trouble, not after the dog gets into a bad spot. "So what" if you blow a whistle that you may not have needed ... I know of no judges that count whistles, so it's better to waste a whistle than to let pup get into trouble and to have to handle him out of it. [Yes, I know that it's easier said than done ... I still find myself stopping my dogs behind a bush, or just beyond the crest of a rise, or in some other spot that x-ray vision would be required for my dog to see me.]
But to do so, you must know the dog, read the dog, anticipate what the dog is about to do ... and if it does not go as you planned, hit the whistle. And you must know two more things ... how far the dog will coast before coming to a stop AND which direction will the dog turn when coming to a stop; and this is sometimes different on land than in water (some dogs generally turn either away from the nearest land and some dogs turn toward the nearest land (I prefer the former)).
This brings up a point of contention with me ... keyhole blinds. Keyhole blinds have become hugely popular, but they are invariably disadvantageous to a fast/quick dog. Frankly, I've not figured out a way to set up a blind that gives a fast dog an advantage over a slow dog ... but I'm still working on it.
FTGoldens


----------



## gdgli

FT

Sounds like good advice. I always hear my mentor saying to a handler(more like shouting) "Why did you let the dog get off so far? Don't wish him to the blind. Keep him online!"

I think we fail to realize that the time we waste results in the dog traveling several more yards.


----------



## hotel4dogs

We had a good time at training yesterday. Ran a couple of multiples for the first time in a while, all of this upland hunting seems to have really revved up his confidence on the marking, so all was good. Also revisited some water handling, when I did the water blind at the Spaniel test although *everyone* was impressed with how he handles, I was NOT. He scalloped back instead of taking a decent over or angle back. Since we are talking about handler error....turns out it's MY FAULT. No big surprise there. I was letting him get away without turning completely to face me, he was *almost* facing me but not quite. Sure enough, as soon as I insisted he face me square on, he took the casts perfectly. I guess it's too easy to scallop when you are turned sort of that way anyway, but when you're facing square on, it's just as easy to go the right way.
Strange thing happened in upland, though. He had a really hard time finding the birds, and due to the heat we gave up after 1. That's the first time I've seen that happen. Dan said scenting conditions were terrible, we were using very small quail in very tall, thick grass, it was hot, dry, and no breeze at all. So I decided not to freak out over it, I know he has a good nose.


----------



## hollyk

gdgli said:


> FT
> 
> Sounds like good advice. I always hear my mentor saying to a handler(more like shouting) "Why did you let the dog get off so far? Don't wish him to the blind. Keep him online!"
> 
> I think we fail to realize that the time we waste results in the dog traveling several more yards.


LOL, we get "You're just wishin, wishin and hopin, Put A Whistle On That Dog".


----------



## boomers_dawn

Maxs Mom said:


> PS my whistle is in my mouth....


Me too, most of the time.

Sometimes if I can't get the whistle in my mouth in time, I yell "TWEET"

Gladys responds to that! :thanks:

My brain needs to speed up, but I have gotten the habit of having the whistle in my mouth most of the time. What FT said, dog skool teecher got done saying last night, it's better to whistle too much than not enough ... at the stage we are at now, that is. I have experienced sometimes in senior when they're learning to go long or you want them to do something instead of nothing, it's better to let them go and build momentum. But we're working on Master now so I'm not supposed to let her get off line.


----------



## FTGoldens

hollyk said:


> LOL, we get "You're just wishin, wishin and hopin, Put A Whistle On That Dog".


Yep! That sounds familiar. 
Sometimes I have to remind a training partner, "Stop leaning and start handling!"


----------



## gdgli

hotel4dogs

If the dog's nose gets dry, wet it for better scenting.


----------



## hotel4dogs

Thanks GRGLI, I'll give that a try. We do wet the mouth/lips in tracking if it's really dry out.


----------



## Alaska7133

Today I did something really dumb. I decided that Lucy has been a really good dog and hasn't had a bird in a couple of weeks, so I got a frozen pigeon out and did some single forced to pile work. Boy did I have her full attention. I decided not to get a bag of pigeons out and just use the one pigeon. I put her in a sit stay, walked out quite a distance, tossed the pigeon and said dead bird. Great.did it several times from various distances and angles. Just simple stuff. So like an idiot though, I put the pigeon away and got out a bag of bumpers. So I made a pile off in the yard. I sent her and she over ran the pile looking all over for pigeons. Poor girl was convinced the pigeons were out there. She had no interest in the pile of bumpers. Rather than ear pinch her to the pile, I decided to call it a day. How dumb of me to start with a pigeon then switch to bumpers. I won't make that mistake again.


----------



## hotel4dogs

ouch.....she should have been forced to the pile and to pick up a bumper, even though the original mistake was yours. When she's sent to get something, she needs to get it, whether or not she thinks there might be something better out there. It's why "force fetch" should really be called "compulsive retrieve". Bringing back whatever you were sent for is not optional.
I probably would have walked out there and told her to pick up a bumper, without any pressure, just to be sure there's no confusion. If she didn't, THEN it's time for pressure. Then I would have sent her again, to solidify the lesson.


----------



## K9-Design

Yeah. It was not a bad thing you did -- it was a bad thing Lucy did. The perfect time for a correction as she willingly chose to be disobedient. MANY people mix birds and bumpers in their FTP pile. The dog obviously picks up all the birds first then has to get bumpers. 
Some folks would say, well she will never have to pick up a bumper at a test, it's always birds. But this shows a very clear and distinct, gaping hole in your force fetch. Do you want to build the rest of your training over a big sinkhole?
You cannot avoid training holes -- go for it!!!!


----------



## boomers_dawn

Dee Dee and Gladys ran yesterday (all singles). They did pretty good.
Dee Dee far exceeded my expectations. 

Dee Dee ran head first into a huge goose decoy silhouette.
She stopped and wobbled, then kept going!
Gladys went around that particular decoy and was off line after that, but figured it out. I think through the decoy was the straightest path to the bird.

Dee Dee had one episode where she stopped and put down the bird then circled like she had to poop, then looked like she forgot what she was doing, so I yelled here and she stopped screwing around.

Gladys' was in blast off to space mode but I managed to take our time to the blinds and line. The hard part is getting there, but once we get there, she settles down and does fine - like she's finally arrived. She's so much fun to work with.

I made some dumb handler errors. I actually read the rule book the night before and still screwed up. I think part of the problem is my brain is full from work and the other part is running AKC, GRCA, NAHRA, the different stakes - too many rules to keep track of. At least I didn't do anything completely NQ-able.

I'll summarize them here so someone else can benefit from it:
a) the collar thing - is confusing b/c addressed in 2 different sections:
Page 9: 
Special training devices that are used to control and train dogs, including but not limited to, collars with prongs, electronic collars used with transmitters, muzzles and head collars may not be used on dogs at AKC events. 
It didn't say slip lead so I thought that was ok, BUT:
Page 29:
(2) Dogs shall be steady but may be brought to the line on leash with a flat buckle collar.* The dog is under judge-ment when it leaves the holding blind*. A Junior dog that is not under control when brought to the line (jumping, strongly tugging, etc.) even though it is on a leash shall risk receiving a lower score in trainability including zero in extreme cases. Dogs may be restrained gently with a slipcord _*looped through the flat buckle collar*_, or held gently by the flat buckle collar until sent to retrieve, 

See the underlined and italicized part? Since judgement starts when out of the blind, the slip lead *LOOPED THROUGH THE FLAT BUCKLE COLLAR* must start *leaving the holding blind,* *not at the line.* I hope I remember this again next time!

b) I've gotten bawled out for touching my dog in a different venue in the past. 
Dee Dee did so good I waited until AFTER I took the bird then thought it was ok AFTER I took the bird, petted her and said she did good. The judges said don't touch my dog, only GENTLE collar guidance is allowed. After scouring the secretary's copy of the rulebook, it looked like touching was completely disallowed in Senior/Master, but since Junior allows the collar guidance, I prayed that since it was AFTER the bird it would be ok. Part of the reason it's so hard to find these rules in the book is b/c it's under the "handler faults" section, Page 58 has the talking part in this section 
_2. Talking to the working dog – the handler must remain silent from the time the handler signals for the first bird to be thrown until the judges release the dog. _

I did this all day, better remember to stop by Master/Senior:
_7. Pulling out leash in front of Judges – (*Master and Senior levels).* _

There's nothing specific about not petting your dog, just the no holding/restraining/manhandling, so best to just remember don't touch them under judgement except the gentle collar thing in Junior. Period.

Gladys' will resume training for Master. Have to find collar instructions and shorten the contacts and that still might not work. 

Dee Dee will continue to work on singles, new situations, and all our dog skool homework. I think she may need to be re-collar-conditioned, will ask next time we have skool or group.

Dawn will have to work on remembering the rules and being a better handler.


----------



## Alaska7133

Dawn,
Are you running Dee Dee in NAHRA Started? What level are you running Gladys, senior? Just wondering. I'm running Lucy in Hunter and Reilly in Started (because he can't see very far).


----------



## boomers_dawn

Alaska7133 said:


> Dawn,
> Are you running Dee Dee in NAHRA Started? What level are you running Gladys, senior? Just wondering. I'm running Lucy in Hunter and Reilly in Started (because he can't see very far).


Hi Stacey, is your test coming up soon? 
I love Hunter stake. 
I'm not sure what NAHRA stake they'll run, our NAHRA test is in the fall, I think mid-Sept. We'll see what they're ready for. Since Dee Dee started AKC Junior, NAHRA started seems like going backwards but I'm not sure she'll be ready for Hunter yet. Same with Gladys, since she's finished AKC Senior it seems redundant to do NAHRA Intermediate but we'll see if she's ready for Senior.

Could you remind me about Reilly's eyesight? I looked back a bit but can't find posts about that.


----------



## hotel4dogs

Gee, I wonder where Holly is this weekend? I wonder what she's been doing???


----------



## hollyk

:artydude :artydude :artydude :artydude :artydude


----------



## boomers_dawn

LOL congratulations hollyk


----------



## hotel4dogs

Way to go Holly and Winter!!! Proud of you girls!


----------



## K9-Design

Yippee skippee congrats Holly & Winter!!


----------



## Loisiana

Not totally field related since we were at an obedience trial, but I spent the weekend chatting with Lorie Jolly. It seems we share a common love of blingy collars


----------



## hollyk

I'm a very happy girl tonight. Winter did very solid work and gave the judges very little to judge. In the first series she pulled off the last bird down for me, a flier, and picked up the middle bird first. There was a hot blind under the arc of the middle bird. The instructions were to pickup one bird, run the hot blind then pickup the rest of your birds. After that the final blind was planted. A lot of handles were getting blown on the middle bird after the dogs were kept off of it to get the hot blind, so we picked it up first. 
I think the pass rate for the weekend was about 50%. 
We still have stuff to get better at but it looks like I have a Master dog!


----------



## Alaska7133

Congratulations! That is fabulous. All that hard work is paying off!


----------



## Alaska7133

Lucy and I did the pretty dog thing this weekend. She got a reserve in open one day. She's physically still maturing. Hope to do better at the winter shows. I did bring a bag of pigeons to throw for the show dogs. Could not get one dog to pick one up! It was like they were in prissy dog mode. I tried to make it as fun as possible for the dogs. Not sure what I was doing wrong. I think dogs hear "leave it" so much of their lives, that when you change to asking them to pick up a bird, they have no idea what to do. These were not chewed up birds. They were frozen and nicely thawed and not old and smelly. Perfect birds. Ideas?


----------



## AmbikaGR

Alaska7133 said:


> Lucy and I did the pretty dog thing this weekend. She got a reserve in open one day. She's physically still maturing. Hope to do better at the winter shows. I did bring a bag of pigeons to throw for the show dogs. Could not get one dog to pick one up! It was like they were in prissy dog mode. I tried to make it as fun as possible for the dogs. Not sure what I was doing wrong. I think dogs hear "leave it" so much of their lives, that when you change to asking them to pick up a bird, they have no idea what to do. These were not chewed up birds. They were frozen and nicely thawed and not old and smelly. Perfect birds. Ideas?



Remember the first time you tasted beer? Wine? Whiskey? Likely was not something you took too at first taste, more you acquired a "taste" for them. Sometimes retrievers react similarly to pigeons (birds).


----------



## boomers_dawn

Gladys started working on Master again. She did a triple with a silent rethrow, not sure she needed the silent rethrow, but none of the dogs did it right so we all re-did it and the second time she did it without with a white bumper on the memory bird. She did a senior level blind with no problems.

The hardest time I will have with her is control and trainability. If I make her heel she whines. She's gotten a lot more vocal. I made a point of not moving until I heard quiet. She had a controlled break on our second triple because I was waiting for her to be quiet before sending. Ugh.

Dee Dee did her first real double and her first in and out. 

Starting tomorrow it will be July!


----------

